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Sept. 30, 2014 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:58:15
Joe Rogan Experience #556 - Bryan Callen
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Main voices
b
bryan callen
01:00:05
j
joe rogan
01:51:09
Appearances
Clips
b
brian redban
00:55
m
matthew yglesias
00:02
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day.
Joe Rogan Podcast by night.
All day.
joe rogan
Hey, look, it's the kid.
bryan callen
Hey, guys, come on.
Sure, sure, I look young.
joe rogan
He's even got a shirt on that says the kid.
bryan callen
Whatever, dude.
joe rogan
In case you were wondering.
bryan callen
I got tight-fitting skin.
joe rogan
It's not my fault.
I like how the fighter is in smaller font because he gets more letters.
You guys based it on, like, what's an even trade?
Did you weigh the ink?
bryan callen
Yeah, we weighed the ink.
We had to.
unidentified
Oh.
bryan callen
We had to wear the ink.
joe rogan
Because the fighter is nice and long, but the kid is larger.
bryan callen
Well, he designs all the t-shirts.
I'm terrible with clothing.
I'm not a big fashionista.
joe rogan
You might want to look into someone who actually makes t-shirts, because that looks like a fucking junior high school kid did that shit with a paintbrush.
bryan callen
That was the idea.
joe rogan
That looks like an art class that you didn't give a fuck about passing.
unidentified
I think that's Karate Kid font, though.
bryan callen
That's what I'm talking about.
joe rogan
Is it supposed to be like Kung Fu movie font?
bryan callen
Yeah, sure.
unidentified
I'm not part of the least creative.
bryan callen
I'm not part of the artistic department.
joe rogan
I love both of you guys, but that is one of the least creative t-shirts I've ever seen.
And I love that end thing.
That little fucking weird thing that stands for end.
You know?
What is that thing called?
unidentified
The end sign?
joe rogan
Is that an ampersand?
I thought ampersand was an A. Like a pound with the A that's circled.
unidentified
No, that's...
joe rogan
What is that?
At?
What is at?
What is the actual...
unidentified
Asterix.
joe rogan
Asterix.
No, asterix is the star, right?
bryan callen
I tried to make t-shirts for Maya.
joe rogan
But which one's ampersand?
unidentified
I don't know.
joe rogan
Hold on, let's find out.
Ampersand.
Ampersand, end, yeah.
Okay, Jamie's totally correct.
So, ampersand is the, that's the end.
Like, fighter, end, A-N-D. It's a weird little symbol.
It just looks bad on yours.
bryan callen
Do I have that on my t-shirt?
joe rogan
Yes, you do, obviously.
Right there, man.
Fighter and the kid.
And then that thing over the T, that thing, you just look at it.
You need glasses, bro.
bryan callen
I do not, just because you need glasses.
Stop trying to get me in on your glasses bandwagon.
joe rogan
You could read shit better.
brian redban
The at sign's actually called a strudel in Israel.
joe rogan
Okay, but we're not in Israel.
What's it called in America?
unidentified
It's just an at sign.
joe rogan
Just an at sign.
bryan callen
A strudel.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's one of those ones that, like, didn't have any play for, like, hundreds of years.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, what is this useless fucking thing on my computer?
bryan callen
Stop trying to bring things back.
joe rogan
You would look at, like, before Twitter and Facebook and all that shit, and, like, in the name, nothing!
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
You fucking never used that thing on the keyboard, on the typewriter, that was a useless goddamn key.
Like, who the hell needs that and thing?
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
And you would ask, like, what is that?
It's some shit you'll never use.
Meanwhile, it's some shit everybody uses now.
Everybody's fucking Twitter handle.
I don't know how many Twitter people there are.
bryan callen
Language changes.
brian redban
Are you a pound sign or a hashtag person?
joe rogan
Well, you really should say pound sign.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
I mean, why does it get to be hashtag if it's the same goddamn thing?
bryan callen
Yeah, I say pound.
joe rogan
Because it has a different connotation?
What was a pound sign's connotation?
brian redban
It was just on your phone, remember?
joe rogan
What did anybody use it for?
bryan callen
You would punctuate to send a message or something.
joe rogan
Like a voicemail.
Press the pound sign.
But they say the pound sign.
But then all of a sudden, hashtag came along.
What are you, making corned beef?
You slinging hash?
What kind of hash is this?
Is this weed hash?
Why would you call it hashtag?
bryan callen
Hashtag question mark.
joe rogan
Someone's going to send us a link on Twitter, I'm sure.
The origins of the word hashtag.
brian redban
Hashtag came from Twitter, right?
Yeah, and then Facebook adopted it.
bryan callen
I was talking to this linguist.
I was saying, why do southern accents, for example, in Mississippi never go away?
Why do certain regions hold on to their accents?
And he said, most of it has to do with the fact that you copy the person who's older.
The person you look up to, if he has an accent, that's the guy you're going to try to talk like.
So it gets passed down from generation to generation and doesn't really get diluted.
joe rogan
Because they just stand out more?
bryan callen
Human beings are tribal.
And so what they do is, if you grow up around your dad or your older brother or somebody you look up to who speaks a certain way, without even realizing it, you start taking on their language.
You speak exactly the same intonation and everything.
And so what happens is, that accent in Louisiana will always stay that accent in Louisiana.
It's really interesting.
But then that can start to sort of change as people migrate.
joe rogan
What if a bunch of bad motherfuckers, a bunch of badass, big dick South Africans came in and just fucked everybody in that town.
Dominated.
Came in with billions of dollars of cash.
It would be interesting if there was a way where you could restructure an accent.
Just a few dominant alpha chimpanzee males.
That's interesting, yeah.
With a strange accent.
Yeah.
You know, strange South African accent.
Like, if there was a way some bad motherfuckers could move into an area...
And everybody would want to be like them so much they would start talking like South Africans.
bryan callen
If you go to Barcelona in Spain, they talk with a lisp.
Barcelona, Barcelona, they do that.
joe rogan
Really?
bryan callen
And they say that is because the king had a lisp a long time ago, and everybody started to copy that sort of, you know, that colloquialism or whatever.
joe rogan
Well, it is kind of weird that lisp is considered to be odd.
The one strange sound that you make, but roaring the arse, is considered to be flamboyant and beautiful.
Like, if you say someone...
bryan callen
When you speak the Queen's English, of course.
joe rogan
No, but we have, like, categories where we'll put, like, this is a sound that you should make.
And this is a sound where it's fucked up.
I don't like it.
And it's all based on our control.
See, the issue with the lisp is some people cannot control the fact that they make that sound.
So they're not trying to lisp.
It's very difficult for them to not lisp.
So because of that, that sound becomes inappropriate.
bryan callen
Yeah, maybe it's because...
When you have a lisp, it's already, quote-unquote, a defect, so it's considered a weakness.
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
So that would be something that is...
joe rogan
Well, it's just because you can't control it.
That's why it's a weakness.
If the rose is ours on purpose, then it sounds cool.
He's Antonio Bandares.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
But if you roll your R's because you can't stop, like your R's are slippery.
bryan callen
I thought that was Conor McGregor.
joe rogan
Conor McGregor.
He's got a little bit of his own.
bryan callen
I like to whip ass.
joe rogan
But that's a different thing, an Irish thing.
But yeah, the R's are slippery, right?
Do you know what I'm saying?
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
Roll.
If that was a disease, you know, instead of a lisp, you know, oh, he's got a rasp.
Oh, the poor bastard.
He can't help it.
unidentified
Speech impediments.
bryan callen
Stutters are neurological.
Yeah, it's a neurological thing.
joe rogan
There was a kid that I used to be friends with, and his brother had a stutter.
Poor, poor bastard.
He just fucking, just would lock up, man.
And he would lock up in front of you, and you'd want to, like, help him through it.
bryan callen
Yes, yes, yes.
And you had to act like nothing.
My, that, something about stutters endear me to the person.
Like, I want to protect them.
We had a guy in my Taekwondo school who would, sometimes we'd line up, and he'd have to say, and he could, he had such a bad stutter.
So we'd all be sitting there, and he'd go, And we have to wait sometimes for 40 seconds.
But of course we all did.
And something about a stutter has always made me feel protective over the person.
joe rogan
If you're stuttering all the time, should you be getting kicked in the head?
bryan callen
That's a good question.
joe rogan
You've got shit going on there already.
You've got some bad connections.
Maybe you could rattle it loose.
Like you hear about those stories where a kid gets in a car accident and all of a sudden he can play music.
bryan callen
Yeah, well, Robert Sachs did a thing about this guy who got struck by lightning, his regular dude, got struck by lightning and became obsessed with music, especially the piano, and just literally did nothing but play 12 hours a day and think piano, and he was convinced it was a sign from God.
So Robert Sachs said, well, you know, it may be a sign from God, but is there any way I can study your brain?
And he said no.
No, this is Scott and I'm not interested in the scientific.
It was just such a bummer for him.
What the fuck happened?
What happened that you got struck by lightning and you became obsessed with the piano?
Where he literally played all day.
joe rogan
I think he's probably scared that if he finds something that's wrong, that they might fix it.
Go back to being normal.
bryan callen
Well, it's very strange to me also because what they find with people who, like when they say something like, you've got to follow your passion, man.
The problem with that is that you've got to broaden your passion because sometimes your passion can be just what you know.
And a lot of people consider their passion what they're just good at already or they came at it with the right emotional state so it was easier for them to learn.
But some passions you have to work at really hard before you get good at them like math or for that matter even like boxing or something like that.
Right.
joe rogan
But why would you think that he would want to not have his brain examined?
bryan callen
Oh, I think that was a religious superstitious thing.
I think that he kind of felt it would go away if somebody did something to his brain.
joe rogan
Is that what you think?
I do.
bryan callen
That's what Sack said, in effect.
joe rogan
I would wonder if he would be afraid that it was purely psychological.
I think there's a lot of people who say they believe in God, and they'll talk about the fact they believe in God, but I don't know if they Believe 100%.
I think they might believe like 80%.
And that 20% haunts them.
They don't want to address that 20%.
And when something like this happens, where there's a tangible effect of a physical act and you attribute it to God, if someone comes along and says, no, you're Abdullah, Mangala, whatever, got fried.
You don't have that part of your brain anymore.
And that part of your brain dictates social skills.
Like, if you're having a hard time talking to people, yeah, well, you lost that.
That part's not there anymore, so you're basing, you know, all your attention is now going to music.
And if you found out that, instead of like, God gave you a gift, that would fuck with your head.
bryan callen
That's right.
Well, a lot of, they say that people who, the fundamentalists, people who are, you know, they believe, and they're willing to die for their beliefs, there's always a great deal of doubt, way more doubt with those people.
joe rogan
How much fucking mental illness is there in this world?
You know, it's something no one wants to bring up.
No one wants to bring up, like, how much of believing in unbelievably ludicrous shit is a type of a mental illness.
bryan callen
The first question, though, also is this.
I mean, if you say, I believe in God, I actually think a better question initially is, what is God?
First of all, how do you define God?
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, is God what they thought he was when they were riding on animal skins?
Or can we define God as...
There's obviously a better...
Look, there's a way that feels good in this world, and there's a way that feels bad in this world.
What feels bad?
disease injury pain suffering violence crime stealing taking advantage of robbing that oh did you hear what that fuck did oh this guy got fucked over oh this guy got beat up look at this video fuck this guy got this that's obviously the worst way to go i mean we feel that right
But positive is like, you see friendship, and you see happy kids playing, and you see people smiling because they enjoy their job.
bryan callen
And sacrifice.
Self-sacrifice and all those things.
joe rogan
You see barbecues.
You see prosperity and friendship and kinship.
You see all this good stuff.
And so, obviously, if you just live your life...
More towards the good stuff.
It's the most you can.
That's like a godly life.
bryan callen
The Greeks called it the rational life, right?
That's what they called it.
joe rogan
Is that what they called it?
The rational life?
bryan callen
In other words, as long as you stay within what would be considered the rational.
joe rogan
But is that rational?
bryan callen
That's what Roman law was kind of predicated on, right?
So if you park your chariot in an area where they do in Carthage and you get a ticket and you go to the judge and you say, hey, Roman judge, in Carthage we park our chariots this way, and the Roman judge goes, okay, well, in Rome we do it this way, so try to do it that way.
But this way you delineate the law.
Then a man comes along, snatches a baby out of a woman's arm, and kidnaps it or kills it or something.
And all of us go, and you go, well, no, we do that in Carthage.
Well, what Roman law would say is, we don't, well, whether you do that in Carthage or not, doesn't matter because this is outside the bounds of rationality.
This is outside the bounds of nature.
This is an unnatural act.
joe rogan
How could the Romans say that?
unidentified
Cicero.
bryan callen
Cicero was the father of Roman law.
joe rogan
Sword-fighting people and fucking each other in the ass.
bryan callen
Well, because they also had a massive empire that had to be run according to a set of principles.
joe rogan
You had to have something.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
That does make sense.
But everybody's idea of what that is depends entirely upon what happened to them when they were young.
It's what you're exposed to when you're really young.
If you find out about the vast majority of people that commit horrific acts, Like, a good chunk of them had some serious trauma when they were young.
Whether it was someone sexually molested them or someone abused them.
There was a lot of abuse.
There was something wrong.
There's only a few of them that people can't figure out.
Like, you know who's a big one that they have a hard time figuring out?
Jeffrey Dahmer.
Jeffrey Dahmer apparently had normal parents and shit.
bryan callen
That sociopath gene, there's been so much research recently written on this.
In fact, Barbara Oakley wrote a book called The Evil Genes.
And they really looked at how different serial killer brains...
They think that there is for sure something that goes on genetically with sociopaths like John Wayne Gacy and those kind of people.
They actually...
In many cases, you can actually tell they have a different brain than...
Than do regular people.
And there's a lot of science now about that.
But that's the extreme, right?
joe rogan
It completely makes sense.
I mean, if you look at every body type there is, look at all the different flaws that people just are born with.
Like me.
I have vitiligos.
I have spots where I don't grow any pigment around my knuckles.
bryan callen
And bigger hands than Brennan's shop.
Keep going.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm very...
bryan callen
Giant hands!
joe rogan
...unevolved.
I've got a lot of issues.
But that's probably not bad.
bryan callen
I've got a lot of issues.
joe rogan
That's probably not bad.
It just gave me freaky bones.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
But the bad stuff is very minimal.
You look at some bad stuff that people have, like we know people that are dead.
We know people that had cancer and died.
We know people that are born with degenerative arthritis.
You know, Sean Rouse.
That poor bastard.
I mean, that poor bastard is always in pain.
And he's a fucking funny dude, man.
Rouse is funny as shit.
He's really good.
And the kid's always in pain.
Every time you shake his hands, it's like, you know, you just want to be as gentle as you can.
He's got a room in the toilet.
Oh, it's bad, dude.
It's bad.
unidentified
He just got new knees, though.
joe rogan
Yeah, he had to get his knees replaced, man.
Fuck, he's in his 30s.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Dude, he's, you know, he just, the genetic roll of the dice, he just, he got fucked.
And so, my point was, there's so much variation, and like, you see people with dwarfism, you've seen people with gigantism, there's variation everywhere.
It just would only make sense that there'd be variation in the structure of the actual brain itself.
Some people are born with weak eyesight.
Their eyesight sucks right out of the gate.
bryan callen
The brain is a physical brain.
I mean, there's no reason to believe that, you know, first of all, evolutionary biologists have come to the conclusion that our brains are different.
I mean, you're not born a blank slate.
joe rogan
Here's the big question.
Here's the really big question.
This is the one for everybody.
This is a hard one.
as medical science reaches a certain point where they understand the components of the brain far more clearly than they do now because like you know one of the themes that we've had on the show the last few days um i had this guy thaddeus russell on and um he was he was talking about how just like a hundred years or so ago the way people would look at certain races was radically different than the way they look at them now like Like in medical journals and shit.
The way they would describe Irish was that they were basically like apes.
They would do this in Harvard.
It was a really fascinating conversation.
We know now that's ridiculous.
We know now that there's brilliant people from every single race.
And the big part of it is what are you exposed to?
What kind of genetics are you dealing with?
And what kind of curiosity do you have in your family?
How do you develop?
bryan callen
How are you nurtured versus your nature?
joe rogan
What makes a sprinter?
Does that disqualify him from being a brilliant thinker?
No, it doesn't.
Those ideas are in the past.
But if there was a way where they could examine your brain and go, well, this guy has no empathy.
This guy completely lacks empathy and he gets an enjoyment out of torturing animals.
If you could find someone like that.
bryan callen
They're already doing that.
And in fact, what they found is a lot of serial killers have underdeveloped amygdalas.
So that almond shape, that part of the brain, I believe, that floods with serotonin, etc.
And a lot of them have smaller than normal or they're damaged.
And It's hard for...
One of the things that they talk about with serial killers a lot of times is for them to feel is sometimes close to impossible.
They've got to go to extremes.
But sexual sadism and all that stuff is what they call...
What this guy, the great famous profiler Richard Walter calls...
A power excitement.
Some people will kill you over power.
They want to kill you.
But when somebody's been torturing somebody, they get off on the act of killing.
Not the killing, the act of killing.
And those kinds of people, they think, have different brains.
joe rogan
They just get off on the power, and they're not feeling any remorse.
bryan callen
They get sexual pleasure from putting people in terrible pain.
joe rogan
Here's the question.
If they can spot that, I mean, how weird does the world get?
Why are you going to let that guy live?
We would all have to look at them like, it's no different, in my opinion, than having a vampire that lives in your neighborhood.
If you had a vampire in your neighborhood and the vampire was constantly compelled to feed on human blood, how long would it take before everybody rallied the troops and stuck a fucking stake in that vampire's heart?
It would take a day.
bryan callen
That's a very good question.
joe rogan
The first day.
Now, if you found a way to absolutely identify a serial killer, like, this guy is a fucking serial killer.
This guy just died.
This is what's important to him.
This is what he doesn't give a fuck about.
This guy loves killing.
He loves torturing.
bryan callen
Get rid of him.
joe rogan
Give a fuck.
Yeah, you'd have to kill him.
It'd be like having a vampire, right?
I mean, wouldn't it be the same thing?
bryan callen
Or it'd be another thing.
How about this?
By the same token, what you would have to say about somebody like that is they have brain damage.
Their brains are damaged.
They are not working like an irrational human being.
joe rogan
So you want to fix it?
bryan callen
Well, either you fix it or you categorically look at it the same way you would look at any kind of a birth defect or a handicap.
What that means then is, what does that say about punitive punishment?
Do you punish them or do you put them in a hospital and keep them in a padded room?
That's the other question.
joe rogan
Well, what kind of a life is that?
bryan callen
I don't know.
But whatever you do, let's just say that we can prove their brains are different.
This is a physiological thing they have no control over.
But at the end of the day, they have urges they have no control over.
Say the way somebody who gambles really badly.
Now what?
Now, yes, they're killers.
They're horrible.
We want them dead.
Frankly, it's a sick dog.
Well, it's a human being.
So what do we do then?
What does that say about punitive punishment?
Do you punish them, or do you put them in a hospital?
joe rogan
You put them in a room with a very sensible John Wayne-like character who's going to say, why don't you guys step outside?
And you hear, bang!
He went for my gun.
And then you go home.
That's what happens.
unidentified
I would agree.
bryan callen
You can't write a law like that though.
joe rogan
Experiment on him is not a bad idea.
unidentified
Fuck using monkeys, use humans.
bryan callen
Yeah, but you can't write a law like that because it's not consistent.
It's inconsistent with...
joe rogan
How about this?
Every time you experiment on him, you let him kill an asshole.
unidentified
Yeah, kill another one.
joe rogan
You take a child molester, and every time the serial killer, you try some new birth control on him or something, every time you let him kill a child molester.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Well, Richard Walter, that FBI profiler, was the guy who came up with a double helix, whatever he called it, of how a serial killer.
He interviewed 20,000 murderers or something like that.
And what's really fascinating to hear him talk about how serial killers come to be.
So how they start.
And they start in really weird ways.
Usually it starts with some kind of fetishism.
Like rubbing up against somebody in a bus stop.
Or they call it peakerism.
Sometimes they'll find...
Like when a cop hears about somebody who cut up a bunch of leather jackets in a store...
joe rogan
Ooh.
bryan callen
They'll go, hold on, we want to come in there and look at something.
Because what Richard Walter would say, a lot of them who were into just cutting people, a lot of them started by going into department stores and doing terrible damage to all the fine leather by cutting with a very sharp scalpel.
And they got off on the fact that first they could get caught, it's very expensive, they'd be in big trouble, but also it's the feeling of skin.
So then what happens with serial killers, they said, is that you keep going and you keep needing a bigger and bigger fix.
And you never go back from that.
You never are able to reverse the perversion.
So once they up the ante and up the ante until finally they kill...
They're never going back.
Never.
That urge continues to come back more and more.
That's what Ted Bundy would talk about.
joe rogan
Well, one of the most terrifying ones was the Zodiac Killer because he was obviously super smart.
He would write things in code.
He would leave them messages to crack.
bryan callen
He would also write letters to the victim's families.
joe rogan
Yeah, and he never got caught.
He never got caught.
They don't know who that guy was.
There's all these different fucking speculations.
None of them, you know, seem to be 100%.
They have some idea.
Like, you know, people said, that was my dad.
People said, I know the guy.
But whoever the guy was, he had to be above average intelligence.
Very, very smart.
Which is fucking terrifying that someone could be very, very smart and just want to...
bryan callen
And a sadist.
joe rogan
Just want to fucking kill people.
bryan callen
Yeah.
And they're out there.
I look at it as like, what is that book?
Do you ever read The Demonic Mail about chimps?
Actually, apes and how human beings are bipolar apes, capable of incredible kindness and incredible cruelty.
And if you look at apes, they'll do that.
Like, chimps will...
Fucking kill each other and bite each other, but then they're incredibly caring other young sometimes.
And we're a bipolar ape, you know?
But that could have a genetic usefulness, apparently, like the variation in genes, one extreme to the other.
One extreme being, I don't know, Mother Teresa, the other extreme being Jeffrey Dahmer.
And we all kind of live somewhere in the middle, but geneticists will tell you that you need both extremes, you know, to create the mean.
It's pretty fucking, you know, you start getting into the science, you're like, God damn it!
joe rogan
When you start thinking about that, if you think about needing both sides, like, does that exist everywhere in the universe?
Is there a hot and a cold?
Is there always an evil and a grud?
Does the evil make the good better?
Does it make it feel better?
I mean, is that a part of the whole thing?
bryan callen
I think it would have to, right?
joe rogan
You know, it's like we were talking about people who were born with Rory yesterday.
Rory Albanese, hilarious guy.
We were talking about people born into money.
And that when people are born into money, they're never happy.
They just can't do it.
Because everything's always been handed to them.
If they don't earn it, if you don't feel that struggle of being broke, I think you and I appreciate everything we've earned.
Because when you were young, you can clearly remember that you were fucking trying to pay your bills and doing odd jobs.
bryan callen
There was always longing.
What kind of jobs did you do?
joe rogan
You worked in a bank for a while.
bryan callen
I worked in McDonald's.
I worked construction for a summer in D.C. in the middle of the summer.
joe rogan
Your story about working in a bank was so...
Oh, God.
bryan callen
16 months, dude.
Waking up when it was still dark, putting on nylon socks.
I literally...
I thought I was going to die.
I started to become...
I started to dislike myself.
I was being...
I became...
I wasn't even interested in what I was eating anymore.
joe rogan
Dude.
bryan callen
I became a bad person.
joe rogan
But that's how you got out of it.
Because your soul, whatever it was, was trying to tell you.
bryan callen
I woke up from a nap and I panicked.
I said, I have to be an actor.
I ran into my friend's room.
I go, okay, dude, I'm quitting everything.
And that's what happened.
I had a dream.
You know, I'll tell you an amazing study.
joe rogan
He's got a dream.
bryan callen
I'll tell you an amazing study on your point.
In the 1930s, they did this five-year study on Boston school children.
And they took...
Do you know the story?
joe rogan
No, but I'll tell you right now, 80% of them are twats.
bryan callen
No, really?
joe rogan
Get off me, you little fuck.
bryan callen
You might be right.
joe rogan
Dicks and twats.
bryan callen
But it's a really famous study that had far-reaching implications, which was they took two large groups, and for five years they gave one group a great deal of support.
Money, psychological help, tutoring, coaches, and the other group they left completely alone.
They came back 30 years later and looked at both groups.
And the group that had five years of that kind of special attention was faring far.
Far worse and had much higher levels of alcohol abuse than the other because the other group had to rely on this, become self-reliant.
And that required all the other things.
Now, you have to be careful because sometimes you can damage somebody, but certainly self-reliance and not learning helplessness, but learning the opposite is so fucking important.
joe rogan
Well, it's there right in front of our eyes.
We just want to ignore it.
Like, what did you just say?
You have to be careful with the stress because you could damage somebody.
Well, that's like analogous to working out.
Like, yeah, you could hurt yourself working out, but if your idea is to just stay a piece of veal in a room that's padded so that your body doesn't ever move and get injured or get strong as shit...
So that, you know, you could do a lot of things with your body.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, would you rather, like, not be in pain all the time and not, like, feel your body deteriorating?
Right.
You know, I don't mean sore from working out.
I mean, like, when you have nothing, you have no muscle, everything is just mush and goo, and slowly gravity starts pulling you towards the bottom.
Well, that's what happens if you don't ever risk exercising.
bryan callen
The same thing with your brain.
You build neural pathways in your brain.
You can literally build them.
joe rogan
Yeah, I would think that with everything in this world, you can either resist and then grow stronger because of resisting, or never resist and have this apathetic way of approaching whatever the fuck it is you're doing.
Everything you do is hard to do.
Everybody's like, oh, you know what's really hard?
Making watches.
You know what's really hard?
Everything that's done well.
bryan callen
That's right, man.
joe rogan
That's what's really hard.
bryan callen
That's so true.
joe rogan
Everything that's done well.
bryan callen
That's so true.
joe rogan
That's why that fucking Jiro Dreams of Sushi movie is so fucking interesting.
bryan callen
Amazing.
joe rogan
Because who gives a fuck?
The guy's just making sushi.
So what did you try to get me to watch that?
bryan callen
His parents didn't like him, remember?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
He said, my parents didn't like me.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
That's what drives him.
He looked like he was going to cry when he was 90. What was that expression that they use?
joe rogan
What's that expression they use where a guy who's just a complete master at something?
I forget what the expression was.
bryan callen
Maestro?
joe rogan
No, no, no.
It was a Japanese expression that they were using to describe how this guy who had worked so meticulously on creating this egg dish.
Remember he was making that egg dish for like a year?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he just couldn't get it right?
And one day the guy, you know, said you got it right and then gave him this Japanese...
See if you can find it.
Whatever the fuck it is.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
From the movie Jiro Dreams of Sushi.
Yeah.
bryan callen
It was one of his apprentices who just kept throwing the custard away and finally got it right.
joe rogan
They have this weird egg dish that they make and it has to be perfect.
It's like I'm not sure how they're doing it but eventually after a year this guy got it right and he was so happy he said he cried.
unidentified
Shokunin.
joe rogan
Shokunin, yeah.
unidentified
Shokunin?
joe rogan
What is it?
What is the definition?
Is it like a Wikipedia definition?
What does it say?
Shokunin.
bryan callen
Shokunin.
joe rogan
Here, I'll Google it.
Spell it.
S-H-O-K-U-N-I-N. K-U-N-I-N. Okay.
Shokunin.
The Japanese word Shokunin.
Okay.
Literally translated, artists and craftsmen who feel deep obligation...
bryan callen
It's why I don't like political correctness because I think it's a lie.
We live in a culture that is always telling you you have to feel good.
And I think anything worth it, it takes exactly what you're talking about.
joe rogan
Well, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to feel good.
I think the real issue with political correctness is that it avoids intent and it ignores the complex subtleties of human communication.
It ignores the reality that one person can say something How about this?
You can say something one time and it's offensive.
And you can say the same thing when you're in a better mood and a better situation.
And it's hilarious.
You could be in the wrong state of mind when you say it.
Or you could say it clumsily and people don't accept it.
You could say it after something that people might think it's insensitive if you said it and they're not willing to go along on the ride with you.
Or you could say that same thing in front of the same people in a different circumstance and they could howl laughing.
I think you're the funniest guy ever.
I can't believe you said that.
Oh my god, he's so crazy.
Political correctness applies as you apply it to humor.
The big issue, the number one issue is that humor is almost always about something you didn't expect or something you can relate to.
And both of those things, something you can relate to, you're telling me you can't relate to racist stuff?
Look, there's certain amount of racist stuff that's fucking hilarious, including racist stuff against white people.
When Richard Pryor used to do that, you know, oh, your mom a motherfucker.
My mom, she's a great old gal.
That is a racist joke.
That's making fun of white people that are goofy.
You can't even, oh, your mom a motherfucker.
You can't even say that to them at work.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
I mean, that's racist.
Is it?
Or is it racial?
Is it only racist if a white person does it?
And racial if a black person does it?
I mean, what is it?
It's a type of humor.
bryan callen
Yeah, well, there's, I guess, the difference between racism and bigotry.
Bigotry is an individual thing, right?
So I'm bigoted.
You can be bigoted against fat people or whatever.
Whereas racism, just the definition of...
Applies to the institution of racism.
So that's why it was always used more sensitively to black people in this country, at least, because when you live in a racist society, the institutions themselves are stacked against you because they are racist.
joe rogan
Well, that's why you can't have a white pride shirt, but you can have a brown pride shirt if you're Mexican, or Cain Velasquez with his tattoo.
bryan callen
That's right.
joe rogan
Like Roy Nelson joked around like he fought Cain Velasquez and had a white pride tattoo on his chest like the brown pride on Cain's chest.
What would anybody be able to do?
I mean, there's something to that, right?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
But there's not because, of course, no one owned white people.
There wasn't a bunch of white people that were kidnapped over in Iceland and thrown onto a fucking slave ship and dragged over to America.
bryan callen
Your text was so funny about, I don't know if I can even say it, but when I was like, they're honoring women in film.
Can I say it?
Yeah, say it.
And you were like, women in film?
Haven't women always been in film?
And then you go, what if they honored white men in film?
I wonder what would happen then.
I wonder what kind of an uproar that would be.
joe rogan
If you had a thing honoring men in film, especially white men.
Because you could do black men.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Black men in film, that would be like a real black tie affair.
unidentified
Sure.
joe rogan
You would go there and dress in your best.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
Put on your shiniest shoes.
But what I said was, you said it's women in film.
Aren't women in every movie?
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
They're basically in every movie.
How many movies don't have women?
bryan callen
Well, they all have.
unidentified
It's very rare.
bryan callen
Haven't they always been in movies, always, and forever?
I was like, yeah, they have.
joe rogan
I mean, yeah, they've done some awesome shit.
I don't have a problem.
This is my issue.
I don't have a problem with them honoring women in film at all.
I have no problem.
I point out, like, what if they wanted to do white men in film?
Because I know that there would be a massive outrage.
I accept the fact that people want to honor only women in film.
I accept the fact that I bet for women, it's pretty fucking frustrating sometimes, because I bet a lot of movies that women go to are just not geared for women.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
There's a lot of movies like, if you go and see Transformers, that's probably geared towards anybody.
They probably cut that bitch right down the middle with stats and graphs and they probably did phone calls and fucking brought in people to analyze it.
They probably cut that bitch right down the middle, men and women.
They probably give you just enough mushy bullshit so that women go goo-goo for it.
unidentified
But my girlfriend would say, ugh, if I go, hey, let's watch Transformers.
That would be her reaction.
joe rogan
What the hell's your girlfriend?
She's smart.
bryan callen
What they were honoring is the fact that it's...
joe rogan
Okay, like The Deer Hunter.
Like, here's a movie, The Deer Hunter.
It's a fucked up movie, man.
Chicks don't want to see a movie where it's...
And they got the fucking gun by the head, and you know he's eventually going to shoot himself, and they're playing Russian roulette.
bryan callen
I became an actor because of that scene, but keep going.
joe rogan
It's a fucking amazing movie.
If you've never seen The Deer Hunter, it's one of those movies from the 70s.
What is it, like 71 or something like that?
bryan callen
It won Best Picture in 1978, I believe.
joe rogan
Was it that late?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, wow.
Why did I think it was way...
Either way, it's from an era where a lot of the movies don't hold up.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Those 70s movies, man, some of them are tough to watch.
Not the fucking Deer Hunter.
Holy shit, that's a good movie.
That was so beyond anything at the time.
unidentified
Shocking.
That scene.
bryan callen
Shocking.
joe rogan
When he shoots himself in the head and grabs him.
No!
unidentified
Oh, man.
joe rogan
Jesus.
bryan callen
Heartbreaking.
joe rogan
Fucking Christ.
bryan callen
When I saw that, I was at an age where I just, first of all, I took movies seriously, and second of all, I never got over that.
I was just like, I don't know what that is.
joe rogan
That movie was incredible.
That was Robert De Niro when he was a motherfucker.
unidentified
The greatest.
bryan callen
The greatest at that point.
joe rogan
And Christopher Walken when he was a motherfucker.
I mean, he's still a motherfucker.
Christopher Walken, you give him a good role, he's still a motherfucker.
He still carries this creepy power to him.
bryan callen
I watched the awesome scene from Pulp Fiction.
No, true romance from True Romance.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's the great scene.
bryan callen
That's the greatest scene.
joe rogan
I didn't really like the scene in Pulp Fiction.
unidentified
Oh, I did.
joe rogan
I was like, I get it.
The watch was up your ass.
bryan callen
Oh, I loved it.
joe rogan
I didn't buy it for some reason.
I loved the movie, but I'm like, that scene is like, come on, get out of here with this watch.
I know I get it.
It's up your ass.
You know?
I don't know.
For whatever reason, it didn't work for me.
But him and True Romance.
bryan callen
You know who I am, Mr. Wally?
I'm the Antichrist.
You got me in a vanity kind of mood.
We're going to do a little Q&A. At the risk of sounding redundant, try to make your answers genuine.
joe rogan
It was so creepy when he did it, too, because the words, the tone, it's a very originally Christopher Walken type of delivery.
bryan callen
I'd never, I couldn't believe that scene.
I was like, what?
We said, we're doing a little pantomime.
It's the pantomime.
Guy gives himself 17, whatever it is, 17 different movements.
The girl's 21. But anyway, he just goes through this whole weird, it's like, who wrote this?
joe rogan
But then he did that fucking Pool Hustlers movie.
Pool Hall Junkies.
People tried to tell me that was good.
Oh, God.
bryan callen
I didn't see it.
joe rogan
Oh, God.
It's fucking awful.
And there's this scene, the lion in the jungle.
It's not a good scene.
Everybody told me he gives this great speech.
I'm like, oh, that movie is dog shit.
People still recommend it.
That movie was awesome.
bryan callen
King of New York was great, too, when he gives this speech.
joe rogan
He was amazing in that.
The problem with that pool hall movie is no one could really play pool.
They're all, like, whacking balls around and shit.
They're not really playing pool.
You can't have a movie where you don't even teach the guy how to play pool.
It's got to look at least a little bit like you can actually play pool.
This is offensive.
And it's just like, come on.
It's so goofy.
The guy who doesn't want to get the job.
bryan callen
Why do you like pool so much?
joe rogan
I have no idea.
I learned it at a formative age.
It helped me transfer a lot of focus and energy that I probably would have put into bad places.
bryan callen
Man, you're good.
You ran a table, I think, three times.
Me and Shaw were like, just ran a table three times.
This guy...
joe rogan
I play a lot.
I got this table right here.
It's a stupid thing to get good at.
I totally freely admit it.
People go, yeah, you mock golf, but you play pool.
Dude, I mock everything.
I mock my own family.
bryan callen
Don't play golf, because you'll get...
Yeah, don't play golf.
joe rogan
I mock everybody.
I mock myself.
I mock you.
I mock me.
I mock golf.
I mock every fucking thing there is.
I mock...
Pink ribbons for breast cancer and walking for AIDS. I mock it all.
Everything's mockable.
Birds.
Birds can suck my dick.
Every one of them.
I mock birds.
bryan callen
They insult me with their freedoms.
joe rogan
I'm down with mocking birds.
unidentified
Get it?
bryan callen
Come on, man.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, I think the more I can laugh, the better.
And I find the happier I am.
Like, I was listening to Jim Norton on the radio today on the Opie and Anthony show.
He's telling a story, him and Jim Florentine, about how Jim Norton was jerking off in the backseat of his car while they were driving home from a gig.
unidentified
No.
No.
joe rogan
He had met a girl and he was so excited.
It was so funny, I was fucking crying laughing.
unidentified
Why?
bryan callen
Because he had met her and he wanted to jerk off before he got together with her or what?
joe rogan
No, no.
He met her and it didn't work out.
He hooked up with her, like, you know, maybe like, she touched him or something like that.
And then he had to go.
And he was so fired up that he had to jerk off.
So he jerked off in the car, in the backseat.
And they were telling this story.
It was fucking hilarious.
And they were telling the story how they were busting each other's balls.
And it was genuinely enjoyable for both them and for me.
It's like, it's fun.
bryan callen
Listen.
joe rogan
But people don't, you know, there's some people that just can't handle it.
bryan callen
I want to be laughing or learning.
Everything else in the middle is like boring.
I guess I'll eat and sleep, but over there all...
joe rogan
People have a problem with being stupid.
bryan callen
I love being stupid.
joe rogan
But they have a problem with it.
You know what I mean?
People don't like being mocked because a lot of times when they're being mocked, there's no humor to it.
Or if there is a humor, it's a very mean humor.
Like there's some humor that's just not funny.
bryan callen
But it goes back to that same thing about politically correct.
Can we laugh at it?
Every academic I have on my podcast, you know I love having all the academics...
Every single one of them, every single one of them basically says to me, what kills me is how politically correct I have to be in my classroom.
If I'm not, I could get in huge trouble.
So if you're a Harvard-Yale faculty, you better be speaking for everyone, including...
Polynesian tribes and, you know, I mean, it doesn't matter, man.
If you say anything, if you even say, it's just unbelievable, man.
And that's the number one complaint I hear from all these people.
joe rogan
Right, okay, but here's the big question.
This is sort of the question that I had with Thaddeus Russell and we talked about it yesterday with Rory, too.
Is this a sign of some sort of social progress that we're, like, springing back so far the other way that it's just, it's rebounding, like, some of the lost ground that was...
Given up when they had things like separate fucking fountains for men, when women could get raped and no one would do anything about it, when cops would literally ask someone, what were you wearing when you got raped?
I mean, all the different things that have happened, all the different times that people have been Homophobic or you know outwardly sexist both from towards men and towards women that the bigger the reaction that like is happening now like this this big blowback this big politically correct left-wing progressive push that maybe it's just like the waves of the ocean like we were talking about earlier the yin and the yang that you need the evil to have the good and you sometimes you need the good to just blow the fuck up so even the evil is like okay I
bryan callen
think the answer is yes, that the wave is pushing in the other direction.
It's a good direction.
It's a good direction.
However, you've got to make sure it doesn't become its own form of tyranny, and it doesn't get in the way of the truth.
joe rogan
Also, you have to realize that some people, they use an ideology to get out their aggression.
And they can choose to decide that it's relevant or justified.
And in doing so, what they are is stressed out, fucked up people who have a lot of tension in their lives.
And they have a cause.
And they find a cause that they agree with.
That makes intellectual sense and then is supported by other people and then they aggressively pursue that cause.
The point of calling people out and being nasty and vicious.
What are they really doing though?
I'll tell you what they're really doing.
They're using a cause to be an asshole.
Why?
Because they're assholes.
They're assholes that support a good idea, and they're doing it totally the wrong way.
And in doing so the wrong way and being super aggressive and asshole-ish, what you're doing is you're strengthening up the resistance to that.
So if you're asshole-ish in a right-wing sort of a way, you're going to make a bunch of asshole left-wing people that are forced to deal with your bullshit.
But consequently, if you're asshole-ish from a left-wing point of view, and you want everything politically correct, And it's not freshmen.
It's fresh people.
I mean, you're dealing with that kind of shit, which is stupid nonsense.
bryan callen
I'll give you an amazing example of this.
And it became a fierce, fierce debate.
You alright?
joe rogan
No.
Fucking terrible.
The Sally Swing.
bryan callen
Oh, for heaven's sake.
He spilled his coffee everywhere.
joe rogan
I didn't spill it anywhere.
I actually kept the coffee in my hand.
bryan callen
There it is.
Not bad.
Not bad.
joe rogan
But it was my Sally swing chair, which I love, is on some serious rollers.
bryan callen
Very good.
joe rogan
I got it.
It was very little coffee.
bryan callen
But this is a classic example of one of the biggest debates, intellectual debates, period.
This chair's ridiculous.
It used to be that everybody would talk about human beings, and it was sort of married to a Marxist ideology, the idea that human beings start at zero.
We are all a blank slate.
So every child is a blank slate, and whatever you socially put on it, So who says boys should play with guns?
They should also be given dolls and will make the world a better place and men won't be as aggressive and aggression is learned.
It isn't inherent and innate.
That was the dogma.
And then a bunch of evolutionary scientists started doing a lot of work, like Steven Pinker.
Stephen Pinker wrote a book called The Blank Slate, and a large part of the book chronicles when the evolutionary biologist who studied, for example, the Yanomano that take up tens of thousands of miles in the Amazon basin, the men that had killed more in battle sired more children, had more wives.
And when that anthropologist came back with that and said, I'm studying indigenous cultures here, where aggression not only seems to be natural, because I'm not exposed to the Western ideas of what aggression is, but they fight all the time.
They have a lot of tribal warfare.
It also, when they come back to their tribes, it also seems to be that they are more attractive to females.
Well, when he came back and said that, the people that had held the blank slate theory went crazy and attacked all those guys, attacked that guy and a number of other people.
They attacked them personally, called them liars, they're fudging their data and everything else.
Of course, now we know, with Steven Pinker's work and these guys, and almost all evolutionary biologists agree, that you are born, people are born, like we were talking about, with different proclivities, but human beings, pretty much every culture we've ever studied, they fight.
Aggression is human.
joe rogan
But here's the deal.
It's malleable.
Human beings are malleable.
Yes, they have tendencies that tend to be exhibited in their relatives, and especially in their family.
And we've known that with dogs forever.
The fact that we think that it doesn't exist in humans when it exists so clearly in dogs, like Joe, the guy I bought Johnny from, the Mastiff, He won't breed a dog if it's aggressive to people.
He won't let it breed.
He'll fix them.
He'll fix the male, and if it's a female, he'll get her fixed too.
If they exhibit any aggression towards people, done.
Any aggression towards dogs, not interested.
Not interested.
Won't let them breed.
You've met my dog.
He's the sweetest dog ever.
He's so nice.
He's just so gentle.
My four-year-old would play with him, and he's a fucking dog.
unidentified
Big dog.
joe rogan
But I never worry about him.
bryan callen
He's super chill.
But then you say human beings who've had to scratch and crawl, fight and hunt just for existence.
You don't think that aggression is going to be an evolutionary necessity?
It is.
joe rogan
Well, how about dogs?
How about the dog that you used to have?
bryan callen
Gamebred.
joe rogan
Exactly.
That crazy dog that killed like a fucking dozen goats.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Two goats, a baby cow, and broke the legs of a grandfather.
joe rogan
And what was up with that dog?
Well, that dog was being bred for fighting.
That dog was a whirlwind.
That dog couldn't wait to get its teeth on something.
That's what it lived for.
It was hypercharged.
It was like it was on 10 all the time.
I loved that dog.
I'd go over here, and it was a little dog, too.
That's what people don't realize about pit bulls.
bryan callen
Skinny beagle.
joe rogan
The real pit bulls, they used to fight them, where they apparently still do in parts of the country.
They're like 35 pounds.
That's a big one.
They're small dogs.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
The big ones get tired, apparently.
Those big dogs, it's just like UFC fighters.
See those big dogs that are like those super monster pit bulls?
They would never fight those.
They fight the little ones.
bryan callen
Except for Tim Kennedy.
He seems never to get tired.
Tim Kennedy seems to just grind you down.
joe rogan
He's a fucking tough prick.
bryan callen
He's a tough prick.
What did you think about that?
I'm sorry to jump over now.
joe rogan
No, it's okay.
For folks who don't know what we're talking about, Yoel Romero, who is this...
Stud wrestler from Cuba.
bryan callen
Two-time world champion.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's won.
He said he's won a medal in every single wrestling tournament he entered, pretty much.
I mean, he medaled.
He was a silver medalist in the Olympics.
He medaled in the World Cup.
I mean, he's a fucking freak wrestler.
Cale Sanderson was one of the greatest amateur wrestlers of all time.
Yoel Romero beat him twice.
bryan callen
Twice.
unidentified
Twice.
joe rogan
I mean, he is that much of a freak when you see him in the octagon.
I almost wish, because he's only 37 years old, I almost wish we got him when he was 27. God.
You know, I mean, God, 10 years of that guy in MMA. But it was hard for him to get over from Cuba to America.
But he fought this guy, Tim Kennedy, and for the first round, he was beating that ass.
He was beating Tim Kennedy's ass.
It was just speed, and it was connection.
Every time he would hit Kennedy, but Kennedy's so fucking tough.
Kennedy's so fucking tough.
His strategy was just to make this guy work, to stay there, hang in there, gas him out, and so he starts attacking in the second round, and you see Romero breaking.
You see him slowly start to get exhausted, and Kennedy is just working him, constantly working him, constantly making him breathe, and then at the end of the round, he cracks him.
But if you didn't see the controversy on Kennedy's side, there's a video of Kennedy holding Romero's glove.
Pull this video up.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
Kennedy holds Romero's glove.
bryan callen
Oh boy.
joe rogan
But there's an animated GIF that probably would show it just as good.
It's hard to look at and be objective about it, because if you look at just the instance where he's grabbing the glove, it clearly looks like he's cheating and he's landing a couple punches while he's holding onto the inside of someone's glove so they can't use their arm.
But when you watch it in real time, in the full context of the fight, you realize it was a fraction of a second.
And there was haymakers being thrown.
He was holding on to his arm, and it so happened that for not even a second, he had his hand inside the glove.
bryan callen
Oh, okay.
joe rogan
But that's just a photograph.
You want to see the animated GIF. Because the animated GIF, he goes from that, which is he's holding the wrist where the glove is, which is totally acceptable, to as he's punching, for a brief moment his fingers went in there.
But then after that is when he connected with some pretty big shots at the end of the round.
Honestly, I looked at it a few times very objectively.
Let's play it again.
Play it again from the beginning.
bryan callen
Oh, that's a split second.
He's just fighting it.
joe rogan
I mean, not only that, this is all in slow motion.
It's a split second in slow motion.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
So let's see it again.
See?
Grab.
Boom.
It's like not even a second.
bryan callen
It got caught, I think.
It looks like he was sliding down.
joe rogan
He was in the middle of fucking combat.
That's what was going on.
He was a beast right there, just swinging.
bryan callen
Look at how tough he is.
joe rogan
He's got it.
He's got a hold of the glove.
Man, I don't know.
unidentified
Yeah, that looks like he's holding onto it.
joe rogan
It looks like, but the problem is it's happening in slow motion.
bryan callen
It looks like he slid down.
joe rogan
See if we can find it.
Well, he definitely slid down.
But one, two, I want to know how, see the thing is though, in the real fight, I don't even know if that was like, he realized he was holding it and he let go.
I mean, how much time was he holding it?
Let's see if you can find the real video.
bryan callen
He's swinging right now.
He doesn't care.
joe rogan
See, forget about this, because this is not even half speed.
We need to find the real video.
Find the real video so we can look at it in real time.
But look, I was calling it.
I didn't notice it.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
If I noticed it, I would have definitely said something.
I thought that...
bryan callen
It's a very short time, even in slow motion.
joe rogan
What was way more fucked up was that Romero was sitting on a stool in between rounds.
They didn't make him stand up.
They didn't take his stool away.
There was 29 seconds between the end of the second round when he was fucking on Queer Street.
He was on the corner of Queer Street and Queer Boulevard.
He was right there.
He got fucking rocked, man.
He walked back to his corner like a drunk.
That 30 seconds is giant.
bryan callen
Whose fault is that?
joe rogan
Well, you know, they said, like Tim Kenney was saying, his corner put too much Vaseline on him.
See, that's what's wrong, because it's not the corners that use the Vaseline.
It's the UFC cut men that use the Vaseline.
And so, the UFC assigns cut men.
We use the same cut men for every event.
bryan callen
Impartial.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah.
Impartial cut, man.
I mean, they certainly have friends, and I'm not saying it's impossible that someone would leave extra grease on, but I think they left the extra grease on his eye because he had a giant cut.
I saw his cut, man.
His cut was huge.
Right.
Huge cut where his eyebrow was.
Like a good solid inch and a half long.
It was a big fucking cut.
And it was bleeding.
And so they stopped the blood and they put the Vaseline on it.
But that's just what they do.
The thing was, John recognized the Vaseline and started talking about the Vaseline.
Mostly because Romero was still on the stool and people were still in there.
So he was correcting them already.
He was saying, you gotta get out!
unidentified
Get out!
joe rogan
Second's out!
Let's go!
He's got too much Vaseline on.
Like, if Romero was standing up, they might have said there was too much Vaseline on, and it would have taken two seconds for them to wipe it off.
Turn towards him.
Good.
Okay, fight.
Like, a few seconds.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
But he still sat on that stool.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
He sat on that stool.
Just sat there.
He knows there.
Tim Kennedy's in front of him going, what the fuck?
Get up!
Like, what's going on?
And he's still just sitting on the stool.
That...
Should be it.
John should have called the fight right there.
You can't just sit on the stool.
Why didn't you take the stool out?
This guy doesn't...
But he doesn't want to do that.
See, because if he does that, then the fight doesn't go on.
And everybody misses the finality of the knockout.
bryan callen
And they get mad at him now.
unidentified
They get mad at him!
bryan callen
Yeah, they're like, John, why did you...
joe rogan
Tim Kennedy was going to knock him the fuck out!
You saved that guy!
That's bullshit!
bryan callen
That's right.
I think it's good that John wanted to, he knew we wanted to see more fights.
joe rogan
Absolutely.
bryan callen
Don't rob us of the fighting, John.
joe rogan
But you can't let that happen.
And it's like, you don't expect it to happen.
But I guess you have to be diligent with A, some corners who they know, they know how to fucking get their way out of a situation.
They know that they can...
Look, Angelo Dundee was one of the greatest trainers of all time.
And when Henry Cooper was fighting Ali, Henry Cooper cracked Ali with a left hook.
He had a vicious left hook.
Ali's legs gave out and he fucking crumpled.
And in between rounds, Angelo Dundee realized that Ali was out, so he cut his gloves off.
Is this in real time?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Okay, let's see it in real time.
Back it up a little bit.
Because that's...
Yeah, that's good.
unidentified
This is just a highlight reel.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
Let's see if we can see that in the highlight reel.
Boy, what's up with YouTube?
unidentified
It's mostly this laptop.
joe rogan
Is it really?
unidentified
Yeah.
Hold on a second.
joe rogan
Well, now that we have those new things, can we not use the laptop now that we have the new connection, Jamie?
unidentified
No.
It's different.
joe rogan
Alright, well fix that, man.
Tell me what to do and fix that.
I'm tired of that stupid laptop.
unidentified
Yeah, this laptop sucks.
joe rogan
This laptop's bullshit.
bryan callen
Bullshit.
joe rogan
It's funny, man.
Laptops of a couple years ago, they just don't want to deal with all the new shit.
bryan callen
You're a techie.
What about the iPhone 6?
joe rogan
I'm not a real techie.
No.
Do you have the iPhone 6?
I'm a tech fanboy.
I'm a fanboy-esque.
bryan callen
Yeah, that's true.
joe rogan
But I don't really know much.
Here we go.
Real life.
unidentified
Yeah, that's holding on.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's real.
Yeah.
That's real time?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But it looks like he slid down and caught the glove.
He definitely did, but he was definitely holding the glove.
In real time.
But again, did he realize he was doing it?
There's an argument that could be made that he didn't realize he was doing it, but there's also an argument that could be made that he had to know when he's doing it.
But he's fucking in full animal frenzy here.
There's a difference between that and not getting up off the stool.
Getting up off a stool is totally 100% calculated.
There's no animal frenzy at all.
unidentified
That's like two and a half punches, though.
joe rogan
Yep.
No, it's totally legit.
bryan callen
You're just moving forward.
joe rogan
I mean, if you wanted to time it, it might have been a second.
bryan callen
I don't think that was a strategy, though.
I don't think he was like, I'm going to grab that glove.
It doesn't feel like that.
matthew yglesias
It feels like he reaches for the hand.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's enough time to know...
That he's holding it, and then he lets it go.
See, he's holding onto it, boom.
Yeah, but the first one was no.
No, no, no.
The first one he's holding where the glove is.
That's legal.
You're allowed to hold the glove.
What you're not allowed to do is this, Brian.
Put your fingers inside the glove.
So you're misjudging it.
So you're saying he's holding it for a bunch of punches, but that's not the case.
Because he's holding the glove in the beginning.
See, he's holding the wrist in the glove.
Then, as Romero's trying to pull away, some of the fingers go into the glove for a second.
But you're incorrect if you think that it's illegal to hold the gloves.
So I think that's one of the reasons why people think this is more egregious than it is.
bryan callen
I don't think it is at all.
If he knew what he was doing, it was one second less than that.
joe rogan
If he knew what he was doing, it is illegal.
It's illegal what he did, for sure.
And it is in the middle of this fucking battle royale moment where he's connected.
You know, only he knows whether or not he knew what he was doing.
I would imagine when you're a fighter and you're in that wild scramble for your life against a stud like Yoel Romero, you're probably in a pure animal state, just reacting on instincts.
You've been smashed in the head who knows how many fucking times in that first round and in the second round.
I mean, Romero cracked him with some big shots, and he's a spooky striker.
And then at the end, he knocked him out.
bryan callen
I think Romero Romero sitting on the stool like that is a way bigger controversy than...
joe rogan
Well, Romero knew that the round was over.
He knew the round was over.
He knew he was getting an extra break.
100%.
1,000 million percent.
He was sitting there.
Kennedy was in front of him saying, what's going on?
Get up!
Get up!
And he still just sat there.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
I mean, that extra 29 seconds was fucking gigantic.
Because after this is over...
This fucking combination.
unidentified
Boom!
joe rogan
Boom!
And look at this one.
unidentified
Bam!
joe rogan
Bam!
That last left.
And that right hand afterwards.
And another one.
Dude, Romero can take it like almost nobody I've ever seen.
He fought Derrick Brunson.
Derrick Brunson head kicked him clean.
Switch kick to the head.
unidentified
Boom!
joe rogan
He ate it like it was candy.
Didn't even buckle.
bryan callen
So unbelievable.
joe rogan
Dude, it was crazy.
bryan callen
Built for war.
joe rogan
Totally built for war.
Dude, he got chinned on the neck and just ate it like it was nothing.
bryan callen
It's so ridiculous.
joe rogan
Dude, it's so ridiculous.
Because I remember watching that fight.
I don't believe I called that fight.
I think that was a Kenny Florian fight.
But I think I was watching at home going, Get the fuck out of here!
How did that guy get hit with that?
He just ate it.
bryan callen
Different human being.
joe rogan
But he didn't even stumble.
Like, whack!
What?
bryan callen
He looks as close to a superhero as you get.
I mean, you don't get more feet out.
It's just ridiculous.
joe rogan
Dude, there's a picture of Romero with Hector Lombard and Tiago Alves.
unidentified
I've seen it.
joe rogan
It's the most preposterous picture.
bryan callen
They're so ridiculously muscular.
joe rogan
What kind of genes are you dealing with?
These gladiator genes that these three guys have.
bryan callen
Even Tiago looks somewhat diminutive next to those guys.
joe rogan
Next to Lombard.
bryan callen
He looks like a normal dude almost, and Tiago's far from it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
It was unbelievable, man.
joe rogan
Next to Romero and Lombard.
There's something about them Cuban jeans, man.
bryan callen
Yeah, that's a different...
joe rogan
Cuban jeans are something else.
bryan callen
That's a different thing.
And oh, by the way, you've been throwing dudes around your whole life.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
On a high level.
joe rogan
Well, there was that boxer from the 1970s.
I believe his name was Teofilo Stevenson.
Stevens or Stevenson?
But they always wanted him to fight Ali.
They always wanted to get him from Cuba.
He was like this amateur who'd win all the amateur tournaments.
And everybody was like, this ain't fair because Americans get to a certain level.
They're amateurs.
They get to a certain level, they turn pro.
But the Cubans never turn pro.
So they're always amateurs.
But they're being paid by Cuba.
So you got these guys who are in their late 30s who've been boxing their whole life fighting 18-year-old kids and just lighting them up.
And that's what you had with the Cuban boxing team.
Everybody would say, oh, the Cuban boxing team's the best.
Look, without a doubt, they're very skillful.
Very skillful.
But recognize that they're competing far longer as amateurs than anyone in America.
I mean, that's just what it was.
So when the Americans were still winning, like in the 76 Olympics and Mark Breland and Pernell Whitaker and Meldrick Taylor.
Was that 76 or was that Roy?
No.
76 was Ray Leonard.
bryan callen
That was 88. I think it was 88. I think it was 88. I think it was 88. Two or 80-80, 1980 or...
Mark Breland was...
joe rogan
Mark Breland Olympics.
bryan callen
Yeah, that wasn't 88, was it?
Was it?
I don't think so.
Whatever happened to Mark Breland?
joe rogan
He's coaching people now.
bryan callen
Huh.
joe rogan
Yeah, he...
1984. Oh, okay.
Gold medal in the 1984 Olympics.
Yeah, he was a bad motherfucker.
But the point is, those were all kids.
Those were all kids that took on, in some countries, like when you're facing Cuban boxers in amateur tournaments or sometimes the Soviet Union.
Yeah, they were grown men.
They weren't going to fight professionally.
There was no professional fighting.
That was always the deal with certain Soviet boxers.
But Soviet boxing has really taken off now.
bryan callen
All of them, man.
joe rogan
There's a whole shitload of them.
bryan callen
Who's going to fight?
Who's the Russian, I keep forgetting, Pravdnikov or whatever, who's going to fight?
Pravdnikov?
No, no, that's not his name.
The guy who's going to fight Bernard Hopkins next.
joe rogan
Yeah, I know.
He's a killer.
Yeah, he's a bad motherfucker.
I don't remember his name.
I just saw him fight a few weeks ago.
bryan callen
Gennady Golovkin?
joe rogan
No, Gennady Golovkin is the middleweight guy, right?
bryan callen
Yeah, he fights it.
54 or something.
joe rogan
Yeah, let's see.
Bernard Hopkins' next fight.
Yeah, that Russian guy is scary.
But Hopkins is a ridiculous freak.
Kovalev.
Sergio Kovalev.
bryan callen
Kovalev, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
He's a beast.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
It's fascinating that Bernard Hopkins is still boxing the shit out of these guys, though, at 49 years of age.
bryan callen
And hunting, going after guys like this guy who hits.
I think he's knocked out everybody's fault.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
Including killed a guy in the ring.
joe rogan
What?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
He killed a guy?
bryan callen
Yes, he did.
joe rogan
What?
Where'd you get that?
bryan callen
That's a fact.
joe rogan
For real?
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
How do you know this?
bryan callen
I've read about him.
joe rogan
Kovalev killed a man, alright.
Kovalev killed a man.
Wow, if you Google it, that comes up really quickly.
bryan callen
Yeah.
So, he's a killer.
unidentified
Wow.
bryan callen
That's how hard he hits.
joe rogan
Boxer dies in the ring.
Yeah, his name was Roman Simakov.
There's a video of it.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And Kovalev didn't give a fuck?
bryan callen
Well, I don't know.
I mean, I don't want to say that.
But I mean, it didn't hurt his boxing.
He just kept boxing.
joe rogan
That's what people are terrified of, right?
A guy who can kill a guy and then go right back and be just as good?
bryan callen
He's got really weird power.
I mean, he really hurts dudes.
And if you see what happens, there's highlights of when he hits them and they just go, what?
What's this?
Oh, I'm getting hit.
Oh, this is a different thing.
joe rogan
Totally different thing.
bryan callen
I've never been hit by a sparring partner like this or in the gym.
This is different.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
And Golovkin's kind of the same way.
United Golovkin hits that hard.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's a lot of those Soviet guys that can just fucking crack you.
It's weird.
bryan callen
Well, they have an excellent...
Their amateur system is so good.
It's just like the Cuban system.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's supported, I think.
And a lot of them, they're starting out.
Let me see that.
Is that the fight where the guy died?
Pull it up to the beginning.
Sometimes guys also, and this is a reality of boxing, sometimes guys come into the ring itself already damaged from sparring.
bryan callen
Yeah, that's very true.
joe rogan
You know when Shob was talking about how he used to spar with Shane Carwin and he would have fights and he was fucked up when he went into the fight.
Like he said when he fought Ben Rothwell.
He's like, dude, I got KO'd just like not long before the fight by Shane, sparring with Shane.
bryan callen
Yeah.
They say that a lot of boxers were ruined in the gym wars.
joe rogan
Fuck yeah.
Oh, fuck yeah.
Yeah, I mean, guys have died in gym wars, too, by the way.
unidentified
100%.
joe rogan
This guy's a murderer, man.
I mean, I didn't mean that in that way.
I meant, like, ferocious.
bryan callen
He didn't mean to kill this guy, obviously.
He was boxing, you know?
joe rogan
Well, it might not have been his fault at all.
I mean, like I said, that guy could have gone into the cage already fucked up.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
Into the ring, rather.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's very possible that he had a pre-existing condition.
It's very possible that it was from all the damage he took while sparring.
It's very possible that he cut a lot of weight and he didn't rehydrate properly.
bryan callen
It's such a tragedy to see something like that.
I hate seeing a fighter who gives his whole life.
It's just the worst, man.
joe rogan
Well, how about when Roy Jones Jr. got carried out of the ring and now we're seeing him fight again.
He's back at it.
bryan callen
He went to sleep.
joe rogan
Oh, he was in total parallel universes.
The one with Glenn Johnson.
bryan callen
Yeah, that's the damage that they say you don't walk away from.
joe rogan
That's the scary one.
bryan callen
When you go out for a long time, like when Manny Pacquiao got, you know, Marquez hit him with that left hook or whatever.
I mean, he was just...
It's not just getting hit there, then falling on your face.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's bad too.
You know, that's probably as bad, that thing that happens to guys when they bounce their head off the canvas.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's just as bad.
Because you see when a lot of guys get viciously knocked out, it's one of the things that does it.
I remember when Mike McCallum fought Donald Curry.
I used to be a big Donald Curry fan.
Donald Curry was a sick boxer, man.
In the 1980s, he was sick.
He had just wicked technique, man.
He just threw everything perfect.
He didn't have a big build.
He wasn't built like a monster.
He just was a wicked athlete and a really good boxer.
And...
He cut weight against this guy Lloyd Hunnigan.
He had a really hard time making 147. And that was back when they just did not know how to rehydrate people correctly.
They just did a terrible job of rehydrating people.
And so he had to go up in weight class after that.
He just fought like shit.
And after that, he was never really the same again.
It was like that one loss, one time getting beaten up, and one time of losing the confidence of being the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world.
He was considered the best pound-for-pound for a while.
And then he fought Mike McCallum.
And Mike McCallum hit him with this left hook to the body, left hook to the chin.
Whack!
Bam!
And the one to the chin just sent him flying backwards.
His head bounced off the canvas.
Blam!
It's out.
Remember Ricky Hatton?
Ricky Hatton versus Pacquiao?
bryan callen
The craziest thing I've ever seen.
He got shut off.
You saw in slow motion his whole head look like an accordion.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
You know?
joe rogan
He just got perfectly punched.
bryan callen
Are there more knockouts now in the UFC or has it stayed the same?
joe rogan
People are getting better.
If people are getting better, it makes it tougher to hit people, but they're better at hitting people.
It depends on the matchups, really.
I think there's less people that fight in the UFC now that have one very specific discipline, and they're missing the other stuff.
You never see the grapplers that can't strike at all anymore.
Everybody's dangerous on their feet.
They're not equal.
It's not equal.
But there's a lot of goddamn dangerous dudes.
There's very few people that have that glaring hole in their game.
So you can't just go in and just beat the shit out of them.
You gotta set them up just like everybody else.
They're athletes.
They move very fast.
And if you fuck up and they catch you with something, you can get in big trouble.
Especially early in a fight.
So I think that people are just better all across the board.
There's better athletes now than there's ever been before.
Guys like McGregor coming up, like Conor McGregor.
This fucking kid's a tremendous athlete.
Wonderboy Thompson, did you see that fight?
bryan callen
I didn't see that fight.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ, that kid's good.
bryan callen
He's great, huh?
joe rogan
His fucking striking is ridiculous.
bryan callen
He's been striking since he was like three, literally.
joe rogan
And he's all point style.
His hands are down.
bryan callen
Taekwondo.
joe rogan
He stands sideways.
Nobody can get in on him.
You get in on him, you're eating knuckle sandwiches.
bryan callen
Front foot kicks.
joe rogan
Front foot side kicks.
Oh, everything.
Throws front leg side kicks to the body.
Throws vicious leg kicks.
Throws head kicks.
I mean, he's fucking good.
He has a 57-0 kickboxing record.
God!
bryan callen
Dude.
57-0?
joe rogan
57-0.
And he's just starting to figure out the MMA game.
He's starting to get so comfortable.
bryan callen
He hasn't even wrestled that long, right?
joe rogan
Exactly.
I think he's a purple belt or a blue belt in jiu-jitsu.
His brother-in-law, I think, is Carlos Machado.
He's one of Machado's brother-in-law.
unidentified
That's great.
joe rogan
So he's, you know, he's been involved in martial arts essentially his whole life.
But it was mostly just the striking.
So now you're seeing him learn to avoid the takedowns.
And once he's learning to avoid the takedowns, he's, you know, able to be much more comfortable on his feet.
Now he's getting loose.
Fuck, dude.
The guy's landed in some ridiculous combinations, man.
bryan callen
Mr. Dominic Cruz is looking pretty good.
joe rogan
Dude!
That was insane.
bryan callen
Brendan told me he trained with him one time.
He and Chael trained with Dominic Cruz.
And both of them, at the end of the session, they were both basically quiet because Dominic Cruz is so smart.
He was like, no, when you do this, you do this.
And he was showing them stuff.
And they were like, how smart is this fucking guy?
joe rogan
He's very smart.
He's very focused.
You know, I mean, you see that when you pay attention to his analysis.
He's very good at analyzing.
Like, he did a great breakdown once that I thought was really important for people to watch, for young fighters especially, of when Kung Lee knocked out Rich Franklin.
And he shows, like, the error that Franklin made.
Franklin threw a kick and the counter, like, he was right in line for the counter.
He didn't move his head off the center line at all.
And I'm like, this is so important that someone, like, draws this in a...
He had a diagram.
You know, like, one of those things.
And he's, like, showing...
He's pointing to the big screen and pointing out all the different aspects.
bryan callen
Because his head is always this high.
It's almost like TJ Dillashaw.
He and Dwayne watched Dominic.
joe rogan
Oh, well, they did.
bryan callen
Oh, they did?
Of course.
That's going to be a fun fight to watch.
joe rogan
Very fun fight to watch.
TJ, if anybody has emulated Dominic's style of movement, a lot of it's TJ. But Dominic took it to a totally different level the other night.
He looked like he was on...
Like, he was from another planet.
I mean, he was like, that was seriously like the next level technique.
Like, next level aggression.
Next level proficiency.
bryan callen
Next level accuracy.
joe rogan
Very good.
Really?
Mitsugaki's top five.
bryan callen
Wow.
joe rogan
He's number five and number six contender.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah, Mitsugaki's very good.
Very good.
bryan callen
Because what's interesting to me is a lot of guys who shine in other divisions, other organizations come over to the USC. Like, watching Donald Cerrone.
In that fight against Eddie Alvarez.
Eddie Alvarez.
And Eddie Alvarez is a kid.
Wasn't Eddie Alvarez the Bellator champ for a while?
Yes.
joe rogan
He just lost the title.
I mean, he didn't even lose the title.
He just left with the title.
bryan callen
And then watching when he comes out of the UFC and watching what Donald Cerrone did to him was a real eye-opener for me because he is a killer and he's a great fighter, but Donald's a different level.
joe rogan
Donald's got real Muay Thai.
That real Muay Thai is different than these guys that want to be boxers who just occasionally throw kicks.
There's boxers who just occasionally throw kicks, and there's guys who have left hook, right leg kick ingrained in their genetics.
When Donald Cerrone hits you with a left kick to the liver, you better lift up your left leg to check.
Because if you don't, he's coming down hard on that thigh with that shin.
He hooks with the left and then chops with the right, and it's in his DNA, dude.
He'll throw that straight right, left hook, right leg kick all day long, and you'll be in that moment because you're moving away from the left hook.
You move away from that left hook, you step to your left to avoid the punch that's coming from the guy's left hand, and he chops that right leg kick right on your thigh.
And he's bringing that knee up.
bryan callen
He's timing that knee.
Every time you go in for a single leg, good luck.
unidentified
Boom!
joe rogan
You know who does that awesome?
It's Jose Aldo.
They call it the Dutchie.
They yell out in his corner, the Dutchie, the Dutchie.
Because it's a classic Dutch combination.
Dutch kickboxing being one of the most talent-rich countries ever for kickboxing was Holland.
Like, beyond.
Above and beyond.
So many great fighters came from Holland.
It's almost insane.
Ernesto Hoost, Badr Hari, Bas Rutin, Rob Kamen, who's arguably the greatest of all time, Ramon Deckers, who's also arguably the greatest of all time.
Deckers and Bas Rutin.
Bas Rutin is one of the greatest strikers to ever enter into MMA. And one of the reasons is because he had that MMA striking training from Holland.
Dealing with high-level kickboxing training.
You know, Peter Ertz.
I mean, just keep going.
On and on and on.
The great kickboxers that came out of Holland.
The training in Holland.
Even guys who aren't from Holland.
Like Tyrone Spong.
He learned in Holland.
He developed that Holland style.
Melvin Manhoof.
Holland.
unidentified
Yeah, he's a killer.
joe rogan
Monsters!
There's like, the kickboxing is so high level there, man.
Just ridiculously high level.
So they would always call that out.
The duchy, the duchy.
And that's that left hook.
Left hook to the body.
Right leg kick.
Aldo throws it like a fucking ballerina.
bryan callen
It's crazy.
joe rogan
It's like art form when he throws it.
unidentified
It's like, whoo!
joe rogan
Like he just spun in the air.
Like he was doing a, like he was a figure skater or something.
bryan callen
I really want to see, I want to see that.
I'm dying to see McGregor.
Although now, of course, who isn't?
joe rogan
Well, I'm dying to see Aldo versus Chad Mendes, too, man.
Mendes has improved his striking, but Aldo is always a motherfucker, man.
bryan callen
Mendes is going to have a hard time because he's so short and stocky.
I feel like he's going to have a very hard time getting close to McGregor, man.
He just fights at a different distance.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, that's why we want to see them fight.
You know, it's always interesting when someone has a big task to deal with.
But the other task is, we've never seen McGregor fight a guy who's a monster wrestler, like Mendez.
Mendez is a super athlete and a monster wrestler.
Like, what happens if McGregor gets taken down?
How well does he fight off of his back?
How well does he do when he gets clay-guided?
Like Clay Guida did to Anthony Pettis.
Just stuck on him like glue and dragged him to the ground and made a stalemate out of it.
What does he do then?
And that's a beautiful thing about watching contenders with various styles go at it.
You get the chance to see.
From a strategic standpoint, there's so many variables.
There's some variables in boxing and in kickboxing.
There's movement and different combinations you could throw.
But the variables between striking and grappling and the transitions between those two are what makes MMA so fucking exciting.
And some of the things that people boo at and they get bummed out about...
Like Clay Guida stifling Anthony Pettis to the point where he can't get anything off.
Those are good.
You have to see those.
Because you've got to know that a guy can do that.
Because when you see a guy like Conor McGregor who's just running through everybody, you go, okay, what happens if he fights a guy who just has a lightning shot that you can't stop?
Like Josh Koscheck in his prime.
A guy who, just like Yoel Romero, lightning.
Yeah, just drives you across the cage like you're a fucking pillow and tosses the knee in the air and slams you on your back.
You're like, oh, next level shit.
What do you do?
How do you react?
And we don't know that yet.
That's one of the cool things about watching different styles go at it.
You don't know what the fuck is going to happen.
I mean, McGregor could hook kick him in the face.
He could do something crazy.
bryan callen
The first thing he threw was a hook kick.
I don't think I've ever seen that in the USA. Very rarely.
A straight-up Taekwondo hook kick.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, Crow Cop's thrown a couple.
bryan callen
But it was almost like, this is how much respect I have for you.
I'm going to hook kick at you.
joe rogan
Well, if you are good at it, you've got a good chance of landing it because people don't expect it.
It's like this guy Larry Kelly.
We've talked about him on the podcast before.
He was a guy in Boston that was known to have a really good hook kick.
He was known for it.
Bill Superfoot Wallace had a really good hook kick.
This guy Larry Kelly, back when Billy Blanks used to be a point fighter, He hook kicked Billy Blanks in the head and sent him flying across the thing unconscious.
unidentified
Wow!
joe rogan
It was one of the greatest...
bryan callen
The one thing I never...
joe rogan
Find it.
Larry Kelly, K.O.'s Billy Blanks.
I know we've shown it on the podcast before, but it's a weird kick to get good at because it's an awkward movement of the body.
But if you practice it, you can get it like everything else.
A wheel kick's a weird kick, but once you learn how to distribute your weight properly and whip yourself through it, it becomes easy, or at least...
bryan callen
You can use it.
joe rogan
In green.
bryan callen
You can use it, yeah.
joe rogan
It's the same thing with the hook kick.
I never really developed a good hook kick.
bryan callen
Me neither.
I used to hate practicing it.
It was always the thing we used to be like, alright, here's a hook kick.
Let's move on.
I want to do roundhouse.
joe rogan
But it's good, though.
I had, you know, look, here it is.
Watch this.
This is crazy.
Boom!
bryan callen
Dude!
joe rogan
Yeah.
Hook kick to the face.
bryan callen
That's crazy!
joe rogan
Yeah.
Watch that one more time.
Larry Kelly was, I was living in Boston, and this guy was, Larry Kelly was like one of the karate guys that you'd hear about in the western Massachusetts area.
He was like one of the best at this style, this point style of karate fighting, which there was some boom!
Look at that shit.
bryan callen
Crazy.
Man, he thought it was going to be a slight sidekick, I think.
joe rogan
Yeah, and he slid back and caught it right on the jaw.
bryan callen
That's amazing.
joe rogan
Yeah, there was a bunch of those guys.
There was Billy Blanks, and there was a couple other guys that I don't remember their name.
There was one guy named Mafia Holloway, who was this big, yoked-up black dude, who was, like, super fucking fast, man.
bryan callen
Those Taekwondo guys, when you watch, like, some of those tournaments...
joe rogan
They were karate guys.
bryan callen
They kick so hard, and, I mean, you get caught in the head with those kicks, like, wheel kick, roundhouse, good luck.
joe rogan
No doubt.
Yeah, there was a lot of those guys.
bryan callen
Kill you.
joe rogan
Very, very fast.
And especially if you try to fight them at that style.
Because that style, what it is, they lunge in, they hit each other, and then they break the action up.
It's real weird.
It's like, but there's something good.
The idea behind it is kind of silly.
Because the idea is really based on this notion that a karate man is too deadly to ever land more than one punch.
And that even when you land, people would get in trouble for excessive contact.
Like if you hit too hard.
unidentified
Yep.
bryan callen
You get disqualified.
But I think it's funny that karate, taekwondo, and a lot of those moves like hook kick and side kick and roundhouse, you know, the way they do it in taekwondo, are kind of just becoming more relevant now in MMA. They're really good to have because you can fight from the distance.
joe rogan
What I was going to say is the good thing about the breaking it up is that you have to learn how to close that distance the best way you can.
The emphasis was entirely on closing the distance and landing.
The emphasis was not on doing anything after that.
So once they learned how to close that distance with ridiculous speed, if you fight people that are used to only continuous fighting, oftentimes that's not something they're good at because it's too dangerous.
You don't just launch yourself across the ring at somebody.
Because if you do, you can't get fucked up, man.
Unless you're really good at launching yourself across the ring and being evasive.
And one of the best ways to do that is to learn how to play tag.
And that's essentially what these karate guys are doing.
And if you can learn how to play tag way better than anybody else, that's a fucking giant advantage.
And that is what Conor McGregor's doing.
That's what Wonderboy Thompson is doing.
What these guys are doing is they're incorporating a point style of fighting.
And the people who are used to that Muay Thai style or a Taekwondo style, like in point fighting or continuous fighting, they're not used to it.
They're not used to someone who launches themselves with such fluidity across the cage.
That hook kick.
bryan callen
Unbelievable.
Reaching like that.
joe rogan
You wouldn't do that in a Muay Thai fight.
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
Because you would never develop it that good.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Because to have that as your approach over and over and over again, it's really ridiculous.
Right.
Somebody's going to know what you're doing and they're going to chop your leg, but they can't when you get so good at it because you've done it to this incredible level of proficiency.
So they develop like a...
It's a weird...
Jump.
And it's the same thing with Taekwondo in a way.
Because there's a lot of Taekwondo techniques developed because they don't allow leg kicks.
Because if they allowed leg kicks, a lot of the shit you do wouldn't work.
That was one of the first things that I learned when I started kickboxing, was that there's two things that I suck at.
I suck at getting kicks in the legs, and I suck at boxing.
When I was outside kicking distance, I was good.
But when guys get close to me, I would be flustered.
I didn't know what to do.
I got punched in the face a lot.
I got my leg kicked.
bryan callen
Well, that's what's so different about Conor McGregor, which I didn't realize he was a national champion.
He was a national amateur champion as a boxer, which I didn't know.
And they never really talk about it in the UFC. You never see that really in his credits, but he won the nationals.
joe rogan
Well, it's his kicking that's almost more impressive.
bryan callen
Well, I'm saying that he's one of the few guys who can kick, and then when he's in there, his hands are amazing.
He doesn't have that problem.
He's an excellent boxer.
joe rogan
He's an excellent boxer.
What's shocking to me is how well he's picked up the kicking.
He's throwing hook kicks and spinning back kicks.
That's his opening moves.
bryan callen
I really think a lot of it is like he truly is after, in such a single-minded way, such a single-minded way, the championship.
That's all that matters.
joe rogan
He's next level.
There's next level guys.
There's like, okay, here's the new evolution.
The next level guy is a guy who's a wicked boxer, who's got an iron chin, who fucking totally believes in himself, has charisma coming out of every fucking pore in his body.
Oh, and he can knock you the fuck out.
With any hand.
And he calls it.
He predicts it like Ali.
Predict that he's going to knock out the number five guy in the world in the first round.
And he did it.
bryan callen
Dressed to the nines.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's hilarious.
He's awesome.
Fucking love the guy.
So do I. And a guy like that, man, that's next level shit.
That's like, everything that Jon Jones has failed to do with the public, this fucking guy has done without even winning the championship.
bryan callen
Incredible.
joe rogan
It's fascinating.
Because a lot of people...
I've always tried to figure out what it is about someone that makes people like them.
It's so hard to tell, man.
You don't know what the fuck it is.
I never saw a guy like McGregor coming.
I never saw that.
I always felt like...
bryan callen
A lot of it's just being able to rise up to the hype, right?
So it's one thing to talk a big game.
It's another when you are actually championship material.
When you're skill level yeah, and you're doing what you said you do when you when you predict the first round Knockout with a guy like Justin Poirier Dustin I mean Dustin Poirier.
joe rogan
It's Christ.
bryan callen
I know I'm terrible you have a fighter pod.
I know I know with Dustin where I Keep saying Justin, but I mean that guy's a killer You know, and he did it.
joe rogan
Poirier's a bad motherfucker.
He just got caught up in the headlights.
You know, McGregor's no joke.
He's really good.
And again, he's next level.
bryan callen
Well, you were at the weigh-in.
What was he saying to him?
joe rogan
I wasn't at the weigh-in.
I was in Toronto.
Yeah, he's a...
It's a fascinating time for martial arts, man.
Really interesting time because all these techniques that were thought to be not like pivotal techniques have become pivotal techniques like front kicks to the face.
That's not even a flashy technique, but once Anderson landed it on Vitor, all of a sudden it became like a number one technique.
And then Brown landed it on Alistair.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
He landed it perfectly in that fucking, oh my god, it's Vitor, or not Vitor, Vitor getting knocked out by Anderson, but Randy getting knocked out by Machida with a jumping front kick.
Machida took it to the next level.
bryan callen
I want to thank Mr. Sivisgaard.
This made a front kick.
joe rogan
It's so crazy that these techniques, like, that no, and now Thompson does, like, a lot of, like, front leg round kicks.
He does a lot of weird shit.
He sneaks kicks over behind your shoulder and then chops down.
bryan callen
Josh Thompson?
joe rogan
No, Wonderboy Thompson, Stephen Thompson.
He's doing a lot of, like, weird, interesting karate kicks.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Josh Thompson's got some serious kicks, too.
He's, like, the first guy to stop Nate Diaz in the octagon.
He head kicked him.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That was fucking nasty.
That was a vicious fight.
bryan callen
Nick Diaz is really coming back to fight.
joe rogan
Anderson Silva.
Yeah.
When is that?
January.
You want to be there?
Come on.
I got a show.
Do the show at the Mirage.
bryan callen
At the Mirage?
What day in January?
joe rogan
It's like whatever January 2nd is.
bryan callen
I'll figure it out.
joe rogan
January 1st, probably?
bryan callen
I'll figure it out.
joe rogan
Do you have a New Year's show anywhere?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Where you at?
bryan callen
I'll be in Bora Bora with my family.
joe rogan
What?
So you're never going to make a show in Vegas.
How dare you?
bryan callen
Oh, it's New Year's.
Oh, shit.
joe rogan
What are you, retarded?
What are we talking about here?
bryan callen
I don't know.
I kept thinking it was after that.
joe rogan
This is Brian, by the way.
unidentified
Maybe I'll be back.
joe rogan
He'll tell you, I'll be at your party.
bryan callen
Maybe I'll be back.
joe rogan
Hey, I'm going to be in Russia for a month.
What?
How are you going to come to my party?
You RSVP'd, you dick.
You're such a child.
Well, that's why you're funny.
bryan callen
I'm in Bora Bora.
Speaking of which, I'll be in...
joe rogan
I like irresponsible people.
bryan callen
I'll be at the Atlanta Improv October 16th, 17th, and 18th.
joe rogan
Just plug it like that.
That's weird.
unidentified
What?
bryan callen
You were talking about where you'd be?
joe rogan
No, no, no.
I didn't talk about where I'd be.
bryan callen
What?
I just happened to have...
Wait, okay, there's a better way to do it.
joe rogan
We're talking about fights.
You want to be there for the fight.
bryan callen
But do you want me...
When do you want me?
Not October 16th, 17th, and 18th, right?
joe rogan
Tickets aren't even sale for my thing yet.
unidentified
No.
bryan callen
Oh, because I'll be in Atlanta.
joe rogan
Trying to bring you in.
bryan callen
The Improv.
joe rogan
That's where you're at for what, New Year's?
bryan callen
No, I'm with my family.
I'm talking about October.
joe rogan
Why are you going to Bora Bora?
What the fuck is going on?
bryan callen
Because my dad's taking everybody.
The whole family, kids and everything.
joe rogan
The patriarch.
bryan callen
Yep.
I was like, really?
joe rogan
Alright.
bryan callen
I've never been.
I get nervous on vacation.
I'm just not good.
joe rogan
Really?
You get nervous?
bryan callen
I just get restless.
I can't hang.
joe rogan
Here's your reality.
Our life is way more fun than average.
You get to be a goddamn comedian all the time.
It's a Friday night and there's no show.
You look at your watch and you go, shit, I could be on stage right now.
bryan callen
It's like Chris D'Elia.
Chris D'Elia was like, if I'm not, why would I do anything?
Why would I talk to you, dude, when all I do is crush and cum?
He's like, you know what I like to do?
I go, crush and cum.
joe rogan
That's hilarious.
bryan callen
Yeah!
How about Chris living in a good old pocket there?
I was loving it.
His Instagram cracks me up and he's just fucking loving stand-up.
Just selling out, selling out all over the place.
joe rogan
It's nice to be in a place where everything starts clicking.
You see guys like him, everything is clicking.
It's all firing together.
It's cool to watch.
bryan callen
Yeah, man.
joe rogan
I've been watching a lot of stand-up over the last few weeks.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, I watched Cat Williams' special, and I enjoyed it.
Some people were criticizing it, and I enjoyed it.
One of the things I really enjoyed is there's a version of it on YouTube.
If you see the version on YouTube, somebody captured one of his sets before the special was actually taped, where he was on fire.
He was just hitting every beat, getting ready for the special.
It was more loose and relaxed than the actual special itself.
I really enjoyed it better, actually.
You could see how funny he really is when he's on.
bryan callen
I didn't know who he was when I saw him at the Comedy Store a while back.
unidentified
When?
bryan callen
I was so blown away.
How long ago was this?
I don't know, three, four years ago.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
bryan callen
And I remember just watching him.
It was on Trippin' on Tuesdays or whatever they call it.
And I was just like, what the fuck?
And I walked up to him.
I go, bro, that was incredible.
Aw, thanks, man.
joe rogan
Very funny dude.
He's powerful, man.
When he's nailing it, man, he's powerful.
bryan callen
20 years of comedy, right?
joe rogan
More than that.
That's my kind of comedy, too.
I love his kind of comedy.
It's just so ridiculous.
When he had that issue, like he had a bunch of arrests and all kinds of shit, I was really bummed out, because he's one of my favorite guys to watch.
I'm like, please don't spiral.
bryan callen
Don't spiral.
joe rogan
Keep it together, man.
bryan callen
Is he back, though?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, only he knows, but he did that special.
That was a big thing.
He did it on HBO. Spike Lee directed it.
That was a big thing.
I think he's the funniest.
He makes me laugh the most.
bryan callen
Kills me.
joe rogan
When he's on.
But Stanhope makes me laugh hard too, but in a totally different way.
Stanhope is like pointing shit out that is just ridiculous and then driving it through the fucking skull of America.
Whereas Cat Williams is just being hilarious.
I mean, he has points.
He does make points, but he's all about being fucking hilarious.
Whether it's making fun of himself or making fun of someone else or everybody.
This is a great time for comedy, man.
It's a great time to be a fan.
bryan callen
Yeah, it really is.
joe rogan
And it's a great time to be a comedian, too, because there's so much stupid shit going on.
It's like every time you turn around, there's some new fucking stupid thing.
bryan callen
It's just endless, too.
There's so many things to talk about.
joe rogan
If I followed sports, boy, I really have material.
If you had some good NFL wife-beating material, I don't know what the fuck is going on.
But it seems like every day you turn over the...
bryan callen
I think it's been going on forever.
I think now it's just being more exposed.
joe rogan
You think that's what it is?
bryan callen
Huge league, a huge number of guys.
joe rogan
Yeah, what is the number of guys?
bryan callen
You're going to get three or four dudes in the NFL. How many?
I think there's 50 guys a team.
joe rogan
Jamie would know.
bryan callen
How many guys in the NFL? Minimum 50 guys a team.
joe rogan
What's that?
unidentified
32 teams.
joe rogan
50 per team?
bryan callen
Yeah, so 50 times 32. You're going to have three or four dudes in that ratio who are going to step out.
Okay.
I'm not surprised.
joe rogan
There's no doubt about it, right?
bryan callen
Yeah, I mean...
joe rogan
That's a thousand-something?
What is that, 1,500?
1,500 dudes.
1,500 dudes, that's a pretty low average, actually, if you only get a few wife beaters.
I wonder what would happen if you got 1,500 cement workers.
1,500...
bryan callen
Probably be a little higher.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
I'll tell you that right now.
joe rogan
How about 1,500, you know, whatever, fill in the blank.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
You know, that's why when everybody says, you know, oh, this guy got divorced, he got fucked over, women are cunts.
That's all you ever hear about.
But I love when I hear about people that get amicably separated.
Nobody hurts anybody.
There was a lady who got arrested who was on The Walking Dead.
She was an actress.
She had a small part on The Walking Dead.
She sent ricin, like that fucking poison, to people under her husband's name.
She tried to say that he was sending it, and it was her.
She's doing like 20 fucking years in jail for that.
Jesus Christ.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's fucking terrifying.
bryan callen
Some people take it to a whole nother level.
joe rogan
Are you kidding me?
bryan callen
I'm going to poison people.
joe rogan
I'm going to send poison and get you locked up in jail forever and laugh.
I'm going to set you up because you don't want to be with me anymore.
Or you cheated on me or you fucking wrecked my car or whatever the hell he did.
I don't know what he did.
bryan callen
I know a guy who was dating a girl.
He had a fight.
He fell asleep.
He took a pill to fall asleep on the plane.
She unzipped his pants and pulled out his junk and let it sit there.
And he got in real trouble for that.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
How did he ever get out?
bryan callen
He had to go to court.
He had to hire a lawyer and go to court and everything, in fact.
And yeah, it was a major.
And they were even thinking about having him, he was going to maybe even have to register as a sex offender.
It became a real issue.
It was a nightmare.
This story goes on, but I won't talk about it in public.
joe rogan
Fuck.
bryan callen
Yeah.
She was crazy.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
Well, that can happen because you know what, man?
You don't know.
They can't scan your brain and say, oh, this guy's a sex pervert.
He's just a guy that got caught up in a relationship with a crazy person.
But, you know, there's so much power.
In accusing someone of something or in setting someone up.
There's so much power.
If someone can do that, male or female, someone can send anthrax in your name and get you busted and watch it all from the sidelines.
unidentified
Ha ha ha!
joe rogan
My plan worked!
unidentified
Jesus!
joe rogan
Like, what kind of a sick fuck human is that?
bryan callen
A few ways to get caught, though, when those forensics guys come in and they start asking you questions, they're like, well, let's go through this.
joe rogan
Well, all they have to do is get your DNA. So many people, they leave DNA on envelopes.
They don't even realize that you're a sweaty fuck.
You licked that envelope?
Oh, you licked it.
Congratulations, you're arrested for the rest of your life.
bryan callen
One of the best people I know is such a good guy.
He got accused besides you.
In the workplace.
How do you suddenly get hurt?
One of the best people I know got accused of sexual harassment and got suspended from his job for a year.
It was a government job.
So he hires a lawyer.
joe rogan
Did he really sexually harass them?
bryan callen
No, no.
unidentified
Are you sure?
bryan callen
The story is crazy.
The story was he said something in allusion to her dress that had relevance to something else.
And she goes, I don't feel comfortable and ran out, but she has a history of doing this to people.
So, he hires a lawyer, a woman.
He says, you have to hire this woman.
My buddy said...
They went and sat at a table.
And before it even got to any kind of trial or anything, they usually think about arbitration.
He said she started asking this woman some questions.
And you've got to realize, this woman thought she could get away with a lie.
But all of a sudden, she got in the ring with somebody who does this for a living.
With a lawyer who specializes in people who...
joe rogan
Fraudulent claims.
bryan callen
Fraudulent claims.
So all of a sudden...
She started asking this woman questions that my friend hadn't even thought of.
And he said, dude, it was the crate.
He eviscerated her until she finally said, I don't feel comfortable.
I don't want to do this.
She jumbled her hands.
I don't feel comfortable.
I don't want to do this.
And she goes, so do you want to drop the charges because you were maybe fabricating the circumstances?
I don't, whatever, whatever.
Well, it went away.
joe rogan
But it's still scary that someone could just do that to decide.
bryan callen
Fuck yeah, it is.
joe rogan
They decide they hate you.
bryan callen
Fuck yes.
joe rogan
Or they decide they love you and you don't want to have anything to do with them.
bryan callen
Oh, God.
joe rogan
Play Misty for me.
bryan callen
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Man, there's a lot of that out there, man.
People are fucking nuts.
Male and female, both sides.
That's why it's gross when anybody ever goes one way or the other.
I'm all for women's rights.
I'm all for men's rights.
Some women I don't like at all.
bryan callen
I'm just all for fair.
joe rogan
Some men, I don't want to be around ever for the rest of my life.
It doesn't matter what gender they are.
I don't give a fuck.
Should women get extra rights?
No.
Should they get equal rights?
Absolutely.
Everyone should be treated evenly by the law.
Without a doubt.
But when you're like...
When you're more geared up towards one side or the other, like, I can't get behind these men's rights dudes.
I can't.
bryan callen
So strange.
joe rogan
Look, I think there's definitely some fucked up laws when it comes to alimony.
There's some fucked up laws when it comes to child custody laws and, you know, some people do, like what you were talking about and what I was talking about, some people will make fraudulent claims about their children and they'll do it and they'll set a guy up just so that they can get total custody.
They're going to war.
So if they'll lie about...
I mean, someone who would send ricin is not above lying about what the husband did to the children.
There's a lot of crazy shit that goes on.
But it's a human issue, more than it's a male-woman issue.
There's some fucked up laws, for sure.
bryan callen
Well, I was going to say that if you took 1,500 women, I wonder how many actually have lashed out and hit their husbands.
Even in the Ray Rice video, I believe she hits him.
joe rogan
It's not justified, but yeah, she hit him.
But what you're supposed to do is hold on to them.
unidentified
Of course.
joe rogan
Unless you're the same size.
Unless you're fighting Ronda Rousey.
You better throw some fucking bombs.
Or you better be ready to tap out.
I hope she doesn't break your shit off and stuff it up your ass.
bryan callen
No doubt.
Because she will.
joe rogan
But otherwise, just grab ahold of them.
Don't hit.
It's just...
And if you really are fighting a chick that...
If you're living with a chick who is prone to violence and can probably kick your ass...
bryan callen
Break up with her.
joe rogan
Break up with her.
She's too scary.
bryan callen
Run away.
joe rogan
It's too scary.
bryan callen
I dated a girl who used to get very physically abusive.
unidentified
Ooh.
bryan callen
She's...
joe rogan
That's scary.
bryan callen
Called her dumb once.
She was drunk.
I didn't know she was drunk.
One of the drunks where you don't know they're drunk.
And she, like, they just act normal.
They're just kind of blank.
joe rogan
Why'd you call her dumb?
bryan callen
I called her dumb.
joe rogan
Why'd you call her dumb?
bryan callen
I can't remember, but it was just one of many things I called her.
unidentified
How dare you?
bryan callen
She swung a boot at me so hard.
At so hard.
She was so strong.
I ducked.
I ducked in it, and I had one of those sliding closets, and it just went right through that sliding closet.
Just a hole in it.
unidentified
Whoa.
bryan callen
I was like, what is going on here, man?
I mean, it was nuts.
It was.
joe rogan
Did you fuck her after that?
bryan callen
Sure did.
joe rogan
Yeah, I knew it.
bryan callen
I held her down.
I said, hey, calm down, calm down.
And then we fucked.
Well, that's the best part of that kind of relationship.
joe rogan
That's what people like, right?
bryan callen
That was fun for a year.
Until I had to figure out a way to evict her.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Okay, let's not talk any further.
I know who that is.
You know, the violent part and the making up part, a lot of times that's like what they grew up with, right?
bryan callen
Yeah.
Yeah, or they run out of...
I think a lot of times violence is an offshoot of running out of other ammunition.
So you can't think of something witty to say.
You can't really think of a comeback.
You don't even know what to do.
I think a lot of times it's almost like...
You regress immediately.
You just strike.
You just strike.
Because children, when they don't have the language, they'll hit.
joe rogan
I dated a girl when I was in high school.
And we broke up and she was dating this dude.
And we used to work at the same place.
And when I went to visit her once...
I was talking to her and she was telling me, she was crying, telling me about this guy that she was dating that beats her.
He hits her.
And I was like, oh my god, I couldn't believe it.
And then she goes, you know what's really fucked up?
I like it.
bryan callen
I could have finished that sentence for you.
joe rogan
I go, you like it?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And she goes, yeah, I like it.
I don't know why.
I like it when he hits me.
I go, you like it when he hits you.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
I go, like, do you want him to keep hitting you?
She's like, no, I'm just fucked up.
And I go, whoa.
I go, I mean, he like, he broke her window.
He punched through her window.
bryan callen
Because she's important enough.
She's important enough to elicit an insane response so she feels valued.
joe rogan
Well, it was fascinating to me because we were both really young at the time.
I think I was probably, shit, I couldn't have been more than like 17 or 18. And she was probably like the same.
She was like 17, I was 18, I think, something like that.
So when she was telling me this, I was like, what?
Like, you like it when this guy hits you?
bryan callen
Strange.
joe rogan
Might have been 1918. And not so strange.
But it was in that neighborhood.
You know, we were just out of high school.
You know, she had graduated, so she had to be 18. So it was just a bizarre conversation.
I was like, you can't let people hit you.
bryan callen
Look at how many people wore Ray Rice, how many women wore Ray Rice's jersey and number at the next game.
joe rogan
Because they want that violent dick.
bryan callen
I don't know.
They were all in solidarity.
I thought that was amazing.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's a weird thing.
It's a weird thing when people just decide to fucking jump on board with the asshole.
bryan callen
His wife came out and was very public about defending him.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, hey.
bryan callen
It's more complicated.
joe rogan
She got half her fucking brain knocked in.
Who knows where her judgment's at.
Dude, she got KO'd and bounced her head off the pole.
She could have easily been dead.
Easily been dead.
Easily been dead.
The idea that he hit her like that.
I don't know, man.
bryan callen
Also the way he dragged her out and didn't really tend to her.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
At all.
bryan callen
That was what I thought was so impersonal and strange.
If he had knocked her out and grabbed her and been like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.
I reacted or whatever.
Okay, I'm a violent guy.
I play football.
But to kind of almost look at her and kind of move her with his foot, it was just like, oh, wow.
That's bad news, man.
joe rogan
Fucked up.
That's the most fucked up.
Well, no.
The most fucked up is the impact, the punch.
That's the second most fucked up thing is how he'd treat her like, bitch.
Get the fuck up.
It wasn't until someone showed up and people were kind of freaking out that it became something they tended to.
bryan callen
And by the way, there are cameras in elevators.
joe rogan
I don't know if you know that in 2000. Nobody was thinking that, man.
All he was thinking was, she ain't hitting me.
He's going to hit her back.
There's...
I was on a plane once with Michael Irvin.
And Michael Irvin, it's a long-ass flight.
We're going to Australia.
Just randomly happened to be on a plane with me.
And he's a good dude.
He's always at the UFC. Yeah, he's a great guy.
And a great athlete.
And we're talking.
And he was talking about this fight.
It's a foundation that he has, where he works with a lot of young kids, teaches them how to harness their anger.
And what he explained, he was explaining this to me on the flight, that when kids grow up in bad neighborhoods with this violence in the house, and then the mother's under stress all the time, it changes the reaction that the boy has to violence when he gets outside.
It changes his reaction to stress.
It makes him ultra-impulsive.
It makes him inclined towards violence.
And he was talking about how you literally have to figure out how to rewire your brain.
And he was talking for personal experience.
And he was talking about how you have to figure out how to rewire your brain in a positive way.
And that it's very important to recognize that these kids are coming out of the gate With the amount of control you expect out of a reasonable adult, they don't have that amount.
They have less.
And one of the reasons why they have less is the shit they're exposed to when they were in the fucking womb, man.
I mean, it's like, it's beyond them.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, and I think that's the case with a lot of people.
I've wondered if that's the case with myself.
You know, I don't think I was exposed to too much stress in the womb, but I was exposed to a lot of violence when I was young.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
I remember a lot of, like, fucking crazy shit in my house, in my dad's house after my mom moved out because my dad used to beat my mom.
I remember some violent shit.
bryan callen
That's crazy stuff.
joe rogan
Dude.
bryan callen
You don't get over that.
I mean, that shapes you.
I mean, I remember how you were when you were younger, because the world was a dangerous place, man.
You kept things at an arm's length.
You were always ready to go.
Always.
Like, you just were always like, who's that guy?
I don't know that guy.
joe rogan
You gotta be careful.
bryan callen
Why is that guy talking to us right now?
I remember you were always paranoid that way, controlling of the environment.
And then you started to calm down.
I think weed helped a lot.
joe rogan
That helped a lot.
bryan callen
And you got older.
But when you were younger, you trusted me and maybe one or two other people.
joe rogan
Also, I was coming straight off of competitive fighting for most of my formative years, from 15 to 21. Then I go into comedy.
bryan callen
It also happened back then.
joe rogan
All that shit.
bryan callen
You didn't feel safe.
When you have a dad like you did, I'm sorry, man.
Kids aren't supposed to see that.
joe rogan
Or they are.
bryan callen
Yeah, well, by the way.
joe rogan
Worked out for me.
I figured it out.
It took a long time.
bryan callen
We spent all our time trying to shelter and protect our children.
I wonder if that's the best thing sometimes, too.
joe rogan
Dude, out of the gate, I trusted nobody.
I remember being five years old and thinking people were retarded.
I remember clearly seeing people argue over shit when I was five years old, going, these fucking dummies.
Jesus Christ.
bryan callen
I remember being in Lebanon during the war.
How old were you?
I'll do you one even better.
I was 5th, 6th, 4th, 5th, and 6th grade, I think, or even younger.
joe rogan
So what is that, 10?
bryan callen
I was probably from the age of, yeah, 8, 9, 10 in the war.
And seeing, hearing machine guns, having to sleep on the floor, having to sleep in the basement, seeing planes bomb, you know, shoot missiles and bomb a gas station.
joe rogan
Weren't you like, hey dad?
How many more years of this shit we gotta deal with before we get the fuck back to America?
bryan callen
At one point my dad couldn't get back in.
We had to be evacuated to Greece.
But that feeling of helplessness as a boy.
Machine guns.
Men in uniforms.
Just me, my mom, and my sister.
That kind of stuff.
That stuff makes you feel...
You never forget that stuff.
joe rogan
Don't you think that that also sort of imparted that nomadic thing that you have going on where you could live anywhere?
bryan callen
Fuck yes.
joe rogan
You could pull up right now.
What?
Brian is one of the only dudes that I know where I could say, Hey man...
I got a place in New Mexico.
You want to move there with me?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Okay.
If you didn't have a family...
bryan callen
No problem.
joe rogan
You would pull up your shit and go anywhere.
bryan callen
I don't make attachments, bro.
joe rogan
At all.
I'd be like, what do you need to bring?
My clothes?
Let's go.
Let's get out of here.
I remember when you didn't have a doorknob.
He didn't have a fucking doorknob.
You know, some people say, oh, a guy keeps his door open all the time.
His door's never locked.
No, no, no.
He didn't have a fucking doorknob.
bryan callen
I got nothing you could steal I care about.
joe rogan
I would go over his house, and I would go, bro, you don't have a doorknob.
I can get on my knees, and I can look through your fucking door hole.
bryan callen
How about in Venice when the woman was cooking breakfast?
She's cooking.
You got it going on, honey.
She's making a meal at my stove.
The cops, you want to press charges?
I was like, no.
joe rogan
A homeless person just walked in.
That was the same place.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
That was the same place where you didn't have a doorknob.
He was completely ridiculous.
Completely ridiculous.
bryan callen
What are you going to steal?
My TV? I don't care.
joe rogan
Yeah.
You could always abandon shit.
bryan callen
Whatever.
joe rogan
But do you think that's why you don't appreciate nice shit?
You don't even appreciate a nice car.
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
You make good money.
You can get one of those sweet new Cadillacs or something like that.
bryan callen
You can get a Tesla if I want it.
Ooh, yeah.
joe rogan
Comfy to drive around.
bryan callen
I've always had a sense of guilt partially because I grew up in countries where people had nothing.
I remember seeing somebody with leprosy and no foot in Yemen going through the marketplaces.
When you're a white kid and the math falls in your favor for no fucking reason...
You don't think that you're God's favorite.
You just, as a kid, I couldn't navigate or understand why I saw kids coming up to us starving in India and in Pakistan, asking for food, dirty, and I had everything.
That doesn't make sense.
That doesn't make you feel good as a kid, especially not someone like me.
I had the imagination or whatever it was to kind of go, "I got lucky because the math fell in my favor.
I did zero to deserve this." And that creates two things: guilt and shame, I think.
And I never lost that.
I never lost that.
I still feel that way.
joe rogan
That's fascinating.
bryan callen
I hate having people come work at my house.
Like, if they're doing work at my house, and I go out of my way to make sure that they, you know, feel like I'm the same as they are.
I don't like being, I'd be terrible, I'd be a terrible king.
I feel, I find it very uncomfortable, all that stuff, anyway.
joe rogan
Yeah, no, I hear you.
bryan callen
Yeah, that might be why.
My father laughed at me one time.
He came to visit me, and my father grew up poor.
And he was laughing.
He goes, what's with this car?
I was driving some terrible Ford, and it was really dirty.
And he's like, you know, I can afford to buy you a Lexus if you wanted.
Would you want one of those?
And I was like...
No.
I never thought of that.
First of all, I don't want somebody else getting it for me.
Second of all, it wouldn't make an impact in my life.
And I respect, though, like Brendan.
Brendan Schaub grew up with not a lot of money, so nice things to him, nice clothes, nice car, they mean a lot.
They remind him that he's not...
Struggling anymore.
Yeah, man.
So I've always respected the idea of limited materialism.
I understand where it comes from.
I also think it depends on what you're turned on by.
I'm more interested in that.
Somebody said, this woman who wrote this book said, I had all these experiences.
She went to study, worked with the KGB as an interpreter and then went to the Antarctic and then went to...
She said, I was doing nothing.
I had all these experiences, but my brain wasn't changing.
I needed to figure out how to change my mind.
She had failed math in high school, but she was in the military and she was watching all these engineers solve problems in this beautiful way, but it looked like hieroglyphics.
And she goes, wait a minute, if I can learn how to do this, then I'll change the way my brain works.
And she talks about it a lot, and she became a professor of engineering, but...
You know, I think I'm more interested, maybe it depends on what you're more turned on by.
I'm really fascinated with changing who I am, in a way, maybe the way I think.
joe rogan
What are you trying to be?
bryan callen
What are you trying to do?
Just continue to be as original and as creative as I can be.
That's all.
That's my thing.
joe rogan
And you can't have a tassel in that?
bryan callen
I can.
I want to get a Tesla, actually.
I think I'm going to.
I'm waiting for my Passat, my turbo diesel Passat lease to run out.
joe rogan
This is just devil's advocate.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
But people that make good money and then don't buy nice things, what is the fucking point of making good money?
bryan callen
I agree.
joe rogan
And someone who is poor, who looks at you, would be like, hey, dummy.
bryan callen
But I have a nice house.
joe rogan
You know, you're like part of, you know, we talked about this yesterday, the 1% of the world, of the world, more than $34,000 a year.
bryan callen
It's just nuts.
joe rogan
That's the world.
bryan callen
I know how lucky I am.
joe rogan
Do you know how crazy that is?
bryan callen
Yeah.
And I buy nice things.
I mean, I have a nice house and all that.
Believe me, I'm not like some Spartan.
joe rogan
I'm not saying you are.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
But what I'm saying is...
bryan callen
Get a Tesla.
That's what you're saying.
joe rogan
What I'm saying is people that make a ton of money And then don't buy nice things.
That's one look.
Like, hey, man, you're the guy who has the opportunity to make a bunch of money and buy nice things.
But then there's the other point of view.
It's like, okay, well, you'd hear about Warren Buffett lives in a regular neighborhood, and he's got a fucking $100 billion.
bryan callen
Yeah, that then becomes its own form of affectation, right?
joe rogan
If he's going to live in a regular neighborhood, how about you give away $8 billion?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
You ain't even going to use it.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
It's just sitting there in your 90. Correct.
And I'm sure there's a lot of philanthropic adventures that he invests money in.
I'm sure he spends a lot of money on other things.
But I'm saying like...
What level do you think you're supposed to give back?
Like, are you supposed to give to charity?
Are you supposed to be nice to your fellow humans?
bryan callen
It's what I've been writing about.
joe rogan
Can you be one or the other?
bryan callen
I've been writing about the idea that, you know, this idea that I've not done anything bad enough to go to hell, but I feel like I haven't done anything good enough to go to...
I'm definitely not sitting anywhere close to Mother Teresa if she's in heaven, you know?
I just feel like there's a lot more...
joe rogan
What are you talking about heaven and hell?
bryan callen
Do you hear your head?
In other words, there's a lot more I could be doing to give to charity.
joe rogan
Are you being literary?
bryan callen
Yes, I'm being literary.
I'm being deep.
I'm being spiritual.
But I do feel like I should be given more in some ways to charity.
But then I think to myself, I'm doing exactly what I was put on the earth to do, which is make people laugh.
And that takes a lot of work and effort.
joe rogan
Okay, stop right there.
Isn't that just justifying the uncomfortable nature of that discussion?
bryan callen
Maybe I don't like this podcast.
joe rogan
Yo, when I think about it, maybe I'm just fucking awesome and I'm here to be awesome.
I'm just rather being awesome.
unidentified
No, because I spent a lot of money on wine and shit.
joe rogan
Yeah, but that's not what you were saying.
You were saying like...
bryan callen
I should.
Should I give more to charity and what does that mean?
Okay, first of all, here's the difference.
Here's how you delineate.
So, if I could give to charity, and there's a lot of definitions.
Is charity, going back to what we were talking about, is charity what people need or do they need inspiration?
So how do you create inspiration?
So giving money to certain causes...
joe rogan
Why is it an or?
bryan callen
I don't know.
joe rogan
Why is it an or?
bryan callen
I'm just wondering if I could make a big difference.
There's a school in Haiti or something I'm sure could use some money, right?
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
Okay.
Alright.
I could give to that school.
And I do.
I do have charities.
I do give to Doctors Without Borders.
I give to Operation Smile at different things.
I got my own individual things.
joe rogan
People have a hard time when they give charity and they find out how much money goes to administrative costs.
bryan callen
Fucking drives me crazy.
Fucking...
I think the United Way, what was it?
What did they say?
Out of a dollar, a penny actually goes to the charity.
The rest of them run the whole fucking thing.
It's a whole bureaucracy they got to run.
joe rogan
It's a business.
bryan callen
It drives me crazy.
It drives me crazy.
joe rogan
That one penny does go to the starving kids.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Well, go fuck yourself because I want my dollar.
joe rogan
What do you think the number is?
Pull up the number.
Find out which organization was it?
bryan callen
United Way.
joe rogan
United Way.
bryan callen
See how much of your money actually goes.
I'm going to guess.
I believe it's a hundredth of your money.
joe rogan
I'm going to get crazy and say it's 20 cents.
20 cents out of a dollar.
bryan callen
Okay.
joe rogan
You think it's really a penny?
bryan callen
It used to be.
unidentified
God.
joe rogan
I'd say it's 47. 40 cents?
I don't think it's that high.
I bet it's less than 40 cents.
bryan callen
It's a huge company.
joe rogan
Okay, I say 20, you say 1. Brian says 40. 47. Is it 47?
unidentified
No, no.
joe rogan
Oh, you're saying 47. I'm looking for it.
bryan callen
I love the internet that we get the answers to all these things.
joe rogan
Instantly.
When he's Googling it, though, sometimes not so much.
bryan callen
Sometimes not so much.
joe rogan
Sometimes shit gets a little confogulated.
bryan callen
There are really good charities out there that make a difference.
joe rogan
Well, the thing is, here's the question.
Should someone running a charity make a salary?
Of course they should.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
But should they make a salary relative to what people make in America or the third world country where they're aiding?
That's when shit gets weird.
Because if it's the third world country that they're aiding, well they're gonna be bitter as shit.
They're working their whole life away and they can't even fucking put a roof over their head and feed themselves normally.
So it should be like an American salary.
bryan callen
I would imagine.
joe rogan
But if it's an American salary for a professional, like what is that?
Is it a hundred grand?
Is it fifty grand?
Is it thirty-five grand?
bryan callen
What's the answer?
unidentified
Okay, United Way.
brian redban
Well, this is United Way of Topeka, so I'm guessing this is a good example of what United Way, I guess different local, but withholds 20%.
joe rogan
Withholds?
What do you mean?
unidentified
Withholds 20% of what you give.
Of what you give.
So they only take, hold on, 22%.
joe rogan
Okay, I just googled what percentage, where does United Way charity go?
unidentified
Right here.
joe rogan
Okay.
unidentified
United Way withholds 22% from 2012. Designations.
bryan callen
Yeah, I think they got exposed and they made a change because they ran a special a long time ago about...
joe rogan
I was shocked.
Okay, here it is.
Worldwide United Way claimed combined administrative and fundraising expenses in 2011 of 17%, meaning that they spend approximately 17 cents for every dollar donated on organizational costs, but the other 83 cents go directly towards community projects.
bryan callen
That's awesome.
joe rogan
That's pretty good.
So United Way is not a good example.
bryan callen
They used to be.
They did a whole expose on them, and it was shocking.
I think they changed.
joe rogan
Maybe we should Google that.
What percentage of money goes to charity?
Let's just Google that, of money.
Like, what's the worst?
What do we think the worst?
bryan callen
But I think that's really good.
I mean, if they can, 17%.
joe rogan
Wasn't like the Jerry Lewis thing a brutal one?
bryan callen
I don't know.
joe rogan
The muscular dystrophy?
bryan callen
Yeah, I don't know about that.
joe rogan
Okay, what percentage of...
Let's Google that.
What was that Telethon called?
unidentified
Jerry Lewis Telethon.
bryan callen
Jerry's Kids?
Jerry's Kids?
unidentified
Jerry's Kids.
joe rogan
Jerry Lewis...
unidentified
Charity...
joe rogan
Telethon.
Okay, guess this.
What do you guess?
What percentage?
bryan callen
Okay.
I would say...
I don't know.
I would say...
I would have a high percentage.
I would say 80% goes to the kids.
joe rogan
America's 50th worst charities rake in nearly $1 billion for corporate fundraisers.
unidentified
Wow.
bryan callen
There you go.
joe rogan
Wow.
bryan callen
Which may not necessarily be bad if they motivate people to get even more money.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, look, there's a certain amount of money that they would never get if it wasn't for those things.
Someone was talking about the Ice Bucket Challenge.
The Ice Bucket Challenge is stupid as fuck, but it's raised a ridiculous amount of money.
Most people who are doing it, they're not even donating money.
They're just throwing water in their head.
But the amount of people that have donated, it's pretty substantial.
It's millions.
Millions of dollars.
Much more than they had last year.
bryan callen
ALS sucks.
joe rogan
I'm sure.
I'm sure.
You know, they don't even think that Lou Gehrig had Lou Gehrig's disease.
Isn't that strange?
bryan callen
Why, because he just got hit in the head?
joe rogan
Yeah, I think it's trauma-related.
He was KO'd so many times while playing baseball, sliding into people and shit, playing hard baseball.
bryan callen
And he played football, I believe, before that.
unidentified
Look at this, Joe.
brian redban
50 worst charities ranked by money blown on soliciting costs.
Number one, Kids Wish Network.
Total raised $127 million.
unidentified
Paid, 109 million, so 2.5% spent on direct cash aid.
joe rogan
So solicitors, that means like advertising, right?
Is that what that means?
What does paid to solicitors mean?
bryan callen
Well, percentage spent on direct cash aid looks like 2.5%, 0.9%, 10.8%.
joe rogan
You used to work for a bank.
You can't figure this shit out?
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
Well, what does solicitors mean?
What is solicitors?
What's the definition of solicitor?
bryan callen
I would imagine it's people that are selling, that are somehow going out there and raising the money.
unidentified
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So this is paid to, like, spent on getting the money.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
So lawyers.
bryan callen
No, people who go out and actually raise the funds.
joe rogan
Well, a solicitor is a legal practitioner.
This is the actual definition.
Solicitor is a legal practitioner who traditionally deals with any legal matter in court in some jurisdictions.
bryan callen
Solicitation also means someone who sells.
joe rogan
Right.
It means solicitating prostitute.
bryan callen
Yes, but solicitors are people that are the actual fundraisers, though, in this context, I believe.
joe rogan
But isn't that someone who's buying?
bryan callen
No, it's somebody who's doing the fundraising.
They're essentially going out there, I believe...
joe rogan
What happens if you solicit a prostitute, though?
Doesn't that mean you're trying to pay for the prostitute?
So that's a solicitor, right?
bryan callen
So no solicitation.
No trying to sell me anything around here.
What does that mean?
brian redban
So saying, like, Kids Wish Network has five employees.
unidentified
It's paying them...
brian redban
And then they're only paying 2.5% to the actual direct cash aid for this example.
joe rogan
So only 2.5% of their money.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Percentage spent on direct cash aid.
2.5%.
That's insane.
What's the other one?
0.9% for the Cancer Fund of America.
That's insane.
Less than 1%?
bryan callen
Children's Whiz Foundation.
These are all like takeoffs on the other charities and they're all scams.
joe rogan
That's so dirty.
bryan callen
American Breast Cancer Foundation.
Not association.
Firefighters Charitable Foundation.
joe rogan
Look at that one.
Look at that one.
Union of Police Associates.
Look at that.
Less than half of a percent.
bryan callen
Yeah, that's a scam, man.
unidentified
Oh, wait.
There's one that's zero percent.
Look at this.
Operation Lookout National Center for Missing Youth.
Zero percent.
Wow.
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
That's insane.
But how does that work?
It says 19.6 million and 16.1.
Oh, you know what that is?
That's just like rent and shit.
bryan callen
Operation Lookout.
joe rogan
So the $15 million is paid to out to people, the rest is bills.
Fuck, man.
bryan callen
How is that allowed to be?
joe rogan
We live in a dirty world!
The world's dirty.
bryan callen
The Veterans Fund.
joe rogan
That's so creepy that there's charities that are that far off.
Less than a percent.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
Committee for Missing Children.
joe rogan
We thought, what did I guess?
I guessed 20?
You guessed one?
Yeah.
bryan callen
There you go.
joe rogan
And there's some that are half of a one.
bryan callen
There you go.
That's why you got to be careful what charities you give to.
And I think United Way, they did this thing and they were like, how much of your money is actually going there back in the day?
I think it was United Way.
joe rogan
How about the charity when they're at the airport and they have the open bucket?
bryan callen
Oh, forget it.
joe rogan
And they want cash.
bryan callen
I don't know who you are.
joe rogan
There's a plastic hole in an open bucket and around the bucket is photographs of kids.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then there's like something and they have a clipboard.
bryan callen
I don't know who you are.
Sorry.
joe rogan
Yeah, this lady came up to me at the airport once and she was super aggressive about it.
And I said, get the fuck out of here with that scam.
And she goes, fuck you, motherfucker.
I go, that's what I was hoping for.
I go, that's what I want to hear.
I go, you're involved in a charitable organization, right?
She's like, fuck you, bitch.
I go, you're involved in a charitable organization.
You're not going to dip into that and take, well, you're a reputable person.
Fuck you, bitch!
bryan callen
There you go.
joe rogan
She could have hit me.
It was pretty close.
She could have definitely hit me.
bryan callen
That's so great.
joe rogan
I was tired, man.
I just landed, you know, working.
And then someone, like, she was aggressive about it, too.
She was like, you know, sir, would you please donate to help, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm looking at her, and I'm like, I smell danger all over you.
You don't seem like a charitable person.
unidentified
Love you.
joe rogan
But you could just show up with like a clipboard and a bucket and, you know, some logo on the bucket and you get people to give you cash just to leave you the fuck alone.
Especially if you're aggressive.
bryan callen
Well, a lot of airports cut down on that because the Hare Krishnas used to always come up to you at airports.
joe rogan
Yeah, but they're wackos.
You look at them, you're like, what's with your haircut, Tong Po?
Get the fuck out of here.
I'm not giving you any money.
You're crazy.
You're wearing sandals and you're a man.
What are you doing?
You're not even like a surfer.
bryan callen
And a saffron robe.
joe rogan
The whole thing is a mess.
You smell weird.
Get out.
Get out.
You smell like curry.
Run.
You're American.
bryan callen
I don't want to be like you.
joe rogan
I don't want to be near you.
And I don't want to give you any money to support this thing that you're doing.
bryan callen
Well, they would sell you books.
joe rogan
Fuck out of here with your books.
bryan callen
Fuck like it.
joe rogan
Get the fuck out of here with that book.
bryan callen
Come on, it's the truth, bro.
It's about an epic battle.
joe rogan
I would love to buy the Bhagavad Gita.
I'd love to, but not from some dirty hippie.
I'm going to go to a nice store where there's a nice person who sells books.
They can tell me about it.
There's some beautiful fucking versions of that.
bryan callen
It's funny how you don't see them anymore like Hare Krishna.
joe rogan
The internet!
The internet smoked them out.
bryan callen
That's it.
joe rogan
They're like, what are we doing?
Everybody thinks we're stupid.
Even Scientologists make fun of them.
Hare Krishna is at the bottom end of the cult pole.
bryan callen
Yeah, man.
joe rogan
Yeah, everybody goofs on them.
Duncan can do the whole chant.
bryan callen
Vegetarians?
Was he of Hare Krishna?
joe rogan
No, but he's really involved in studying religions and studied them his whole life.
He can do long Buddhist chants, but long Hare Krishna chants.
Yeah, he does all that shit.
He can do it, and it sounds like one of those monks in those hollow, echoing monasteries.
bryan callen
I remember reading so much about Zen Buddhism and Buddhism.
I've read every book I could get my hands on Buddhism, and I was just like, this is the answer.
Maybe it is, but I just somehow got too busy.
joe rogan
I don't think there's any answer.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because in the end, everybody dies.
bryan callen
That's for Dan.
joe rogan
There's no answer.
This is what it is.
How much are you enjoying this and how much are you enjoying being around others who are enjoying it and helping each other out and having a good time?
Because other than that, what else is there?
Is there a deep meaning if everything's temporary?
It doesn't seem like there could be.
It seems like you're a part of some sort of weird evolutionary process that will go on as long as life is allowed to exist on this planet, which is very finite.
The planet itself only has, like, 1.6 billion years of life left.
bryan callen
Do you think, though, that...
joe rogan
You know that?
If it goes more than that, the sun's gonna burst.
bryan callen
Yeah, it's crazy.
joe rogan
The sun's done.
The sun runs out of juice.
bryan callen
But do you think that there is some...
There is a...
Either movement toward each other or a movement toward something?
Or do you think it's all random?
I mean, it's a hard question.
Who the fuck...
joe rogan
No the fuck...
No one knows.
bryan callen
No one knows.
joe rogan
I mean, it might...
It might not be...
bryan callen
What about human progress?
Do you think we've been progressing...
Yes.
joe rogan
Yeah.
When there's steps back, like when we talk about people being PC and all that stuff, I think it's terrible, but it's way better than being racist.
The PC shit is way better than segregated where the blacks have to sit in the back of the bus and use a different water cooler.
This is way better.
So that, to me, is clear example.
But then there's also drones and spying and crazy shit and people are still getting locked up for crazy drug laws.
And then there's private prisons and there's corporate interests and there's fucking this Goldman Sachs thing that came out.
The tapes that are now being released of the Fed in coercion with Goldman Sachs.
I mean, all the different shit that's going on, where you see that there's still corruption.
There's still evil.
There's still just misdirected energy, incorrect patterns of behavior that have led to people to operate in the same type of momentum that the fucking knucklehead traders before them have done and the fucking military industrial complex guys from the 60s did.
It's all the same kind of...
That energy hasn't been flushed out of the system yet.
But it seems like it's slowly getting pushed into a corner.
bryan callen
Or at least it's harder to hide.
joe rogan
See what the fuck is going on in Hong Kong?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Dude, Brian, pull up the photos.
There's a drone video of the protest in Hong Kong.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Holy shit.
bryan callen
Yeah, it's an island of 7 million that actually want to be able to choose who governs them.
Can you imagine that?
joe rogan
Dude, there's a lot of fucking people.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
A lot of people.
bryan callen
But they're also bordered.
There's also one point...
3 billion people on their border.
And they don't want to be part of China, the mainland.
joe rogan
Well, they used to not be until fairly recently.
They used to be controlled by the United Kingdom, right?
unidentified
That's right.
joe rogan
Look at this fucking video, though.
It's going to freak you out because they're flying over.
By the way, it's amazing that they can do that now.
You could just, like, a regular person can get a drone.
bryan callen
Crazy, I'm just getting an aerial view, huh?
joe rogan
When we did that sci-fi show, dude, I put on these goggles, like these VR goggles, and they put a camera on this drone, and then flew the drone over the treetops, and I was like watching from the drone's perspective.
I was like, oh my...
We couldn't put it in the episode because we just didn't have enough time, but I was like, I'm flying!
It was amazing.
bryan callen
So sick.
Dude, it was amazing.
They attached a camera to an eagle.
joe rogan
But I'm telling you, it felt like I was flying.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
Like when I had these VR goggles on.
bryan callen
Wow.
joe rogan
I had VR goggles on.
This thing is flying through trees and stuff.
And you're watching like, whoa!
bryan callen
How much would that cost to buy?
joe rogan
Probably a lot.
And they don't go very far.
Like after a mile, it doesn't transmit.
Like the signal, whatever type of signal it is they're using.
So look at this.
This is the crowd.
This is them filming this by drone.
bryan callen
Unbelievable.
joe rogan
Dude, they've shut down the city.
This is incredible.
Look at that.
Look at that.
That's a million people, right?
At least.
bryan callen
I don't know.
joe rogan
I don't know what a million people looks like.
bryan callen
I think there are seven million.
joe rogan
That's like 300 people, bro.
bryan callen
Crazy.
joe rogan
That's like Nick's Comedy Stop.
It's packed.
bryan callen
It's like a Joe Rogan concert.
unidentified
Look at that.
joe rogan
Look how many fucking people.
unidentified
It's like ants on rice noodle.
joe rogan
And what year were they United Kingdom?
It was until like the 90s, right?
bryan callen
I think the lease ran out in, gosh, 19...
2000?
2001?
1997?
What was it?
I think it was 97, maybe?
Or was it later?
joe rogan
They're bracing.
Both sides brace for Wednesday's showdown.
Oh, fuck.
Are they going to go World War III in Hong Kong, too?
bryan callen
Well, I don't think...
Nobody wants that.
They don't want the People's Liberation Army coming into...
joe rogan
People's Liberation Army?
bryan callen
Is that what they're calling it?
Yeah, that's what the Chinese...
I think that's what the Chinese call their army.
But they don't want the Chinese military to come in and get unpleasant.
That's for damn sure.
They're asking for the...
What I believe is named...
They call him the chairman.
The person that was put in power by China to step down.
And they want elections to vote in their own...
joe rogan
And China's saying, hey, we're kind of running your country.
Is it considered a country or is it considered a city?
bryan callen
It's considered a province and part of China, mainland China.
And I think that for the longest time, remember that Hong Kong was sort of the financial capital of that part of the world.
But Shanghai now has taken over and a lot of other cities have taken over.
They're richer.
And so it's a complicated thing because a lot of mainland Chinese come in and vacation in Hong Kong.
So they're pretty dependent on each other.
joe rogan
Look at this photo of this kid shining his fucking flashlights.
They're all shining the lights from their cell phones.
It's really creepy.
It's on USA Today's coverage.
It's one of the larger photographs.
There's millions of kids and they all decided to turn their cell phone lights on.
And they're holding them up in solidarity.
And it's kind of symbolic.
bryan callen
Well, China also, apparently, the government of China is really worried that if they don't handle this properly, there are a lot of cities in China that could do the same thing in asking for changes in how the country is governed.
So China is being very, very cautious about how they treat this particular protest.
joe rogan
Yeah, they could fuck this up and lose everything.
bryan callen
Yes, because if it gets too successful...
Dude!
joe rogan
That fucking picture!
bryan callen
There's a lot of unrest in China.
Not just Hong Kong.
joe rogan
When did Hong Kong become a part of China?
bryan callen
I think it was during the opium trade, wasn't it?
unidentified
They sold it back to them in...
bryan callen
97?
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
And it was annexed by the British I think 100 years before that.
joe rogan
So it hasn't even been 20 years.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
So they're just still trying to work it out.
I mean, think about 20 years ago.
Was that, like, Clinton days?
Yeah.
97?
That was Clinton, right?
Yeah.
97, Clinton was president.
Imagine that?
Like, if Clinton, like, leaves, and then all of a sudden China takes over the U.S., and we're like, what?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, that's kind of the same sort of thing.
If they were under rule of the United Kingdom, that's really similar to, like, being America or Canada.
bryan callen
Absolutely it is.
And it was really hard for the...
And also, remember in Hong Kong, they speak Cantonese.
They don't speak Mandarin.
Most of mainland China is mostly Mandarin.
And they speak a very different language in Hong Kong.
They do speak Mandarin, but they also mainly speak Cantonese.
Very, very different form of Chinese.
And it was a capitalist system, a very wealthy area.
And the big fear was that when the Politburo in China took over, that they would impose communist market laws and things like that.
But I think they kind of left them alone.
For a while.
And now, Hong Kong's economy is very tied up with mainland China's economy.
joe rogan
What a mess.
It's just weird when you see a situation like that where you know something's going to happen.
And we're watching it from afar, from way the fuck over here in California, and we're like, what is going to happen over there?
bryan callen
Well, the question is, is China going to allow them to behave like a separate and independent province?
Because they are not according to China in a Chinese law.
That's the issue.
So then what do you do?
What do you do?
joe rogan
Well, then you've got to realize that the people in the military themselves, other than the few people that are running it, there's going to be a certain point in time where if there's riots everywhere, if the entire country goes topsy-turvy over this, if they all start emulating what's going on in Hong Kong, there's A, not enough soldiers to cover them all because there's a billion goddamn people, and B, it would be soldiers turning their guns on their own people.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
These are regular folks, just like the soldiers in America.
I mean, it's one of the weirdest things about people that don't want to support the troops, like the idea that, you know, I don't support war, so I don't want to support the troops.
Troops are just people.
And they might be the only thing, and their love of regular people might be the only thing that protects a really tyrannical government from From turning their guns on the people themselves.
Because they can't do that if the people holding the guns refuse.
Somewhere down the chain, where they say no.
They say no in general.
bryan callen
They say that John Adams lost the election to Thomas Jefferson because he had a standing army.
And one of the things that the Founding Fathers warned against was a standing army.
Why?
Because a standing army can be hijacked by a charismatic Well, that's right.
joe rogan
Like the Waco guy, David Koresh, he got very little sympathy in this country.
Even though they essentially went in and firebombed these people, killed kids, shot people down.
There was fucking very clear images of Sherman tanks blowing fire into these fucking buildings.
But, we knew they had guns.
That's the only thing we knew.
We knew that we heard that he fucked kids.
That was the thing, right?
But, by the way...
bryan callen
That was a rumor.
joe rogan
That is exactly what I would say if I was going to fucking run some tanks into some dude's house.
That guy's in there fucking kids.
We've got to go kill those kids.
bryan callen
And it was ATF anyway.
It was ATF. It was also basically about the fact that he had all this sort of weapon and arsenal.
joe rogan
But think about the ultimate irony.
We're going to save those kids by killing them all.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, they killed everybody.
I think they let some kids out at one point in time.
bryan callen
Yeah, some of them got out, but a lot of them got burned, and it was terrible.
There's a documentary about it that was kind of jaw-dropping.
joe rogan
Well, the documentary was highlighting the use of force, and that was one of the first times where we saw real military force being used on civilians.
bryan callen
And the good news is that a lot of people, there was a documentary made out of it, and a lot of people were pretty outraged by it, but maybe not enough.
joe rogan
Hicks had a whole bit on it.
Hicks had a whole bit on it.
It was pretty fucking crazy.
It was just most people didn't see it because there was no fucking internet back then.
It wasn't like today.
If they did some Waco shit today, and we saw them driving over buildings and blowing fire into these buildings, pull up the video of Waco.
Pull up the video.
What are you doing?
You checking your Facebook, you fuck?
bryan callen
Look at what happened with Ferguson, this black kid who was shot.
I mean, the whole town went crazy.
joe rogan
Things are different now.
bryan callen
It's different.
joe rogan
It's not that easy to just get away with shit anymore.
bryan callen
I also think, though, I was thinking about Russia and how outdated.
They're calling the ruble, the currency, the rubble now because it's just not worth anything.
joe rogan
That's very clever.
bryan callen
It's very clever.
joe rogan
I like to play on the words.
bryan callen
But it's a one-crop economy.
So Russia, the motto is basically, Mike makes right.
All the guys with guns control everything.
Guess what?
So now you've got commodities.
You've got oil that you export.
And I guess some weaponry.
joe rogan
Look at this.
This is crazy.
This is in the 1990s.
This is a goddamn tank tearing apart a house.
This is a tank in America going into this quote-unquote cult of And because they had gotten into a firefight with these people, because the ATF shot at them, the ATF, they were like on the roofs and shit.
It's a really crazy documentary.
One of the guys, the ATF guy inside was shooting out the door at ATF people outside.
bryan callen
And they were making, they were blasting, I guess, music and stuff to make them crazy and noise.
joe rogan
Did they do that with these guys too?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's a common tactic.
Why is the music playing?
unidentified
I was saying if that was the music, I hope that's not the music.
joe rogan
Is it?
Is that really?
unidentified
That's the music that goes with the video.
joe rogan
That's going to get us pulled off of YouTube.
That's what that music is.
This is ridiculous.
I mean, to see tanks being used on civilians, helicopters and shit...
Okay, but then if you look at it from the other hand...
Look, these are bananas.
Jesus.
bryan callen
Look how fast that thing starts growing.
joe rogan
If you look at it from the other side, if you've got a group of people that are in this house and they're shooting at federal agents, what do you do?
Do you do this?
Do you do this?
Do you wait them out?
Do you wait for them to starve themselves?
bryan callen
You don't set them on fire.
You don't do that.
joe rogan
No, you definitely don't.
bryan callen
Especially when kids are in there.
joe rogan
So what do you do?
bryan callen
So the question was, I think the idea was floated that they started to fire themselves within the compound and the ATF did not.
joe rogan
Yeah, but that's not true.
That's not true.
They did this shit with tanks.
bryan callen
Well, the aerial view of the tanks suggests something different.
I don't know.
joe rogan
What does the aerial view of the tanks suggest, Dr. Fox News?
bryan callen
Well, it suggests, in fact, they're using flamethrower.
joe rogan
They use flamethrowers, dude.
Okay, let's Google use of flamethrowers.
I mean, I thought that was pretty established.
Use of flamethrowers in Waco.
bryan callen
Well, from the documentary, they said, you know, the big question was, was it started inside the compound?
Was the fire started by the Waco cult members or by the ATF? Hidden Waco footage.
joe rogan
Tanks used flamethrowers.
And there's a link, and you can go to the YouTube video.
And the YouTube video is unavailable.
bryan callen
Interesting.
joe rogan
Proves it's bullshit.
Waco tank flamethrower on YouTube.
unidentified
A second hole is made in the side of the building.
And a third hole is made at the front door.
joe rogan
This sounds like some chemtrail shit.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
That's the thing, when the internet, you don't know.
unidentified
The following footage proves, beyond any doubt, that the tanks intentionally set the house on fire.
It proves that the Branch Davidians were murdered.
Watch carefully as the tank backs out of the house.
joe rogan
Watch carefully as the tank backs out of the house.
unidentified
You can see that this tank has a gas jet on the front that shoots fire.
joe rogan
Oh, that is true.
Google Waco tank flamethrower.
This is pretty fucked up, Brian.
I think this is going to turn you over.
You're going to be working for CNN next.
bryan callen
I don't know, you guys.
joe rogan
You're gonna be in Ted Turner's back pocket.
Fox News is gonna fuckin' fire you.
unidentified
Yeah!
joe rogan
You're gonna go dark on this one.
You're gonna go left wing.
bryan callen
All I know is I got my deer tags, my friend.
joe rogan
I got my deer tags, too.
Here, watch this.
unidentified
And a third hole is made at the front door.
joe rogan
Go towards, like, where the E is on experience.
unidentified
What these tanks are doing in each picture is collapsing the inside stairwells.
joe rogan
Okay, here, it's good.
Keep it going.
unidentified
The following footage proves, beyond any doubt, that the tanks intentionally set the house on fire.
It proves that the Branch Davidians were murdered.
She sounds like a machine mate.
That's true.
Wow, yeah.
joe rogan
Dude, they lit that house on fire.
bryan callen
Whoa.
joe rogan
Where are you at now, Fox News?
What do you think?
I think they lit that house on fire.
unidentified
What do you think?
bryan callen
I don't like Fox News, I'll tell you that much.
I don't know.
I believe that they set that house on fire.
I don't have any doubt.
You've got those guys who are geared up.
They got shot at.
Some of the guys got shot.
Men are men.
They're going to be vindictive.
They're going to do whatever they can.
joe rogan
Well, they're also soldiers, and they've been given an enemy.
You know that old expression?
That's exactly right.
If you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
bryan callen
Like a nail, yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
I don't have any doubt about that.
joe rogan
Okay, but here's the question.
What do you do?
If you know that there's a group that's holed up and they have a bunch of weapons, I'm not saying you set the place on fire and kill the kids, but I'm saying, how do you handle that?
You've got a guy who's shooting at federal agents, allegedly.
There is the reality that agents accidentally shot at themselves.
That is a fact.
bryan callen
You can also hear the guy say, I have a right to defend myself.
As they're breaking in, he shoots.
So a lot of it was he was in his home, people were coming in, he didn't know who was coming into his house, they had guns.
You know, you can make an argument for a lot of this stuff.
joe rogan
Oh yeah.
bryan callen
What do you do in that situation?
joe rogan
What do you do?
bryan callen
I suppose the first thing you should think about is there are two things.
One is, are children being abused?
Two is, does he have an illegal arsenal?
So if those are the two cases, you get a search warrant.
They tried to get in.
They were denied access.
The rest is a standoff.
I don't know.
That comes down to police tactics.
unidentified
Right?
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, do you think that someone should be allowed to have a place like that?
Like, if you believe that people should be allowed to have guns.
Like, I have friends who have many guns.
My friend Justin is like a legit, bonafide gun nut.
He doesn't even know how many guns he has.
Now, what if Justin got together with 50 of his friends, and they're all like him, and they rented a big fucking piece of land, or they bought a big piece of land together, put a few houses up, and then put a fence around it?
bryan callen
I think I'm fine with that.
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
Because I believe in freedom of assembly.
joe rogan
Right.
But what is that?
You've got a highly armed compound of a bunch of gun nuts.
bryan callen
It still falls within the confines of the law.
Now, if they have fully automatic machine guns, turret guns, and rockets, you're going to go, hold on, do you guys have a license for those?
And there are a whole lot of measures.
And then you'd have to take steps to make sure that you don't have...
with a bunch of illegal weapons.
There's a reason there are some weapons that are...
Nothing's illegal if you have a license for it.
joe rogan
Right.
Do you know that they think that Koresh shot himself?
bryan callen
Hmm.
joe rogan
Or was shot by his people?
Really?
Yeah, they think he was shot before he...
Yeah, Koresh and about two dozen others shot themselves to death or were shot before the fire engulfed the entire compound.
Others died in the fire or the rubble of the collapsing building.
Jesus.
Whoa.
That's dark.
unidentified
Here's the shootout.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I mean, they were fucking armed to the tits.
God, this is crazy.
unidentified
watch this they become the target of a madman's fury according to intelligence there's an arsenal of weapons in this room so look Dude's shooting through the wall.
Psst.
joe rogan
They shot each other.
unidentified
Psst.
So the agents went in.
joe rogan
They're shooting.
unidentified
They shot through the walls and shot their own agents.
Fucking A man.
Sixteen wounded.
joe rogan
Four dead.
bryan callen
That's a blood dead right there.
With those guys, good luck.
Now you're in a war.
You want to mess around with those kind of guys who gear up who are already tough, and that's their job, and you killed four of their friends?
I wouldn't be too sympathetic either at that point if I was one of those guys.
joe rogan
Right, but devil's advocate.
This is not my feelings on this.
I don't have formed feelings on this.
bryan callen
I don't either, by the way.
joe rogan
But those guys broke in these people's houses for what reason?
bryan callen
Apparently, he was in violation, I think, of two things.
Weapons, illegal weapons, caches, or whatever, and also, I think, there was a warrant for the fact that he was having sex with underage girls.
unidentified
Yeah, child endangerment.
joe rogan
Yeah, child endangerment.
Which is kind of legit if he's running a cult.
Of course it is.
My friend used to date this chick who grew up in a cult, and he said that she would tell him horrible fucking stories.
bryan callen
That's why a lot of guys start cults.
joe rogan
So they can get pussy.
Yeah.
Well, didn't Koresh, like, had a deal where he could bang everybody's wife?
bryan callen
If he was smart.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That was his thing.
His thing is he could bang everybody's wife.
bryan callen
You can be in my cult.
Here's the only catch, 22. Don't they always do that, though?
joe rogan
Everybody.
Jim Jones probably banged everybody's wife, too.
bryan callen
Listen, man.
We're all one people.
It's all about love.
I am the alpha male.
joe rogan
I don't know what that's saying.
I think he was saying he's God, bro.
bryan callen
All right.
Well, there's also that.
joe rogan
They all look the same.
Like him, the Australian Jesus, you can put them side by side and they're like interchangeable.
They're these weird...
bryan callen
That guy's great.
unidentified
That's Duncan Trussell.
bryan callen
No, no.
joe rogan
Duncan looks too wild-eyed.
bryan callen
The Australian Jesus is so lame.
He's just like, I'm Jesus.
joe rogan
Well, no, he's lamer than lame because he's told two different chicks that they're Mary.
Like his game is he tells a chick that you're Mary, that I'm Jesus and you're Mary.
Like, oh, get the fuck out of here.
bryan callen
Dumb and Superstitious, to my type.
joe rogan
If you watch the documentary, well, he's not dumb.
He's pretty clever.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
I'm saying they are.
But the poor girl, he has this girl that's convinced that she's married, and she's crying, and she's crying, and she's talking about remembering him being on the cross.
It's fucking madness.
And then, afterwards, he's being interviewed by the guy.
The guy who's interviewing was pretty slick.
And he's like, didn't you tell another girl that she was married?
He's like, yes, but I was wrong.
bryan callen
See what I mean?
He plays shittiest excuse.
Like the shittiest way.
Bro, I would have so much of a better way.
I can lie right now and come up with a better idea.
Yes, but I was wrong.
joe rogan
But it's even better than that.
He plays Green Day.
He's singing there and he's playing a Green Day song.
bryan callen
He's incredible.
joe rogan
Like, you telling me that the Australian Jesus would be really into Green Day?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, I just kind of think there's got to be a better song for him.
bryan callen
I don't know.
He's got like six followers.
joe rogan
No, he's got quite a few.
bryan callen
They're really devoted.
joe rogan
It's in Queensland.
Yeah, they cry.
bryan callen
You can see them crying and stuff.
joe rogan
Dude, he's got a giant compound and it's getting bigger.
Yeah, yeah.
A lot of people are very worried about him.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
Yes, yes.
I mean, he's a legit cult leader.
bryan callen
Wow.
joe rogan
I mean, he really has...
I mean, it's an enormous thing.
bryan callen
I just feel like it's a huge magnet for the dummies in society.
Oh, it is.
joe rogan
There's a lot of dummies.
bryan callen
It's kind of like flypaper, where you just get all the...
It just sucks all the really dumb...
joe rogan
Mm-hmm.
bryan callen
People in one area, it's fine.
joe rogan
No, it's not.
It's not, because then they can take over.
See, the thing about having a really big group of dumb people is a big group of people that are so dumb, they don't even know they're dumb.
So there's no leaders.
They're a giant group of retarded followers.
And they're chasing after a guy who's a fake Jesus who likes Green Day.
I mean, this is like...
The numbers that a guy like that can draw, the reason why it's fucked up is because if you look at the whole population, let's just go with America because I don't know how big Australia is, but if America's 300 million people, what percent do you think are just so fucking dumb they almost can't think things through for themselves?
I'd say it's 1%.
That's all you need.
If you have 1% in America, you have 3.5 million dummies.
That is a staggering number of dummies.
If you really laid it out like that, if it's truly 1 out of 100, which is probably being super generous to the human race, but if it really is 1 out of 100, that's 3.5 million in this country alone.
You don't need that many to start a good cult.
Shit.
bryan callen
Yeah, but what is that cult doing?
Aren't they just kind of living the gospel?
joe rogan
Sucking his Jesus like a dick.
bryan callen
Right, there's a lot of sex.
joe rogan
He's got a lot going on, man.
He's got a big-ass place.
bryan callen
How big is it?
joe rogan
He used to be an Australian IT specialist.
bryan callen
But they're in Queensland.
I mean, it's not like Queensland is, you know...
joe rogan
He's got a big spot, dude.
bryan callen
He's got several hundred acres.
I'll do respect everybody for Queensland, but whatever.
joe rogan
I think he has like 600 acres or something up there.
bryan callen
That's where they find the monster great whites.
That's where they find great whites that are 22 feet that have a bite out of them from a bigger great white.
joe rogan
600 acres or something like that?
bryan callen
There's Koresh.
Let's see.
They always have good hair.
Look at Duncan Trussell.
unidentified
Koresh was actually a good looking guy.
joe rogan
Yeah, Koresh wasn't bad looking.
bryan callen
No.
Great hair.
Scruff.
joe rogan
But they look similar.
If you look at him and then pull up the Australian Jesus.
No, not Charlie Manson.
The Australian Jesus.
That guy looks very similar.
bryan callen
I'm going to cut my hair for our hunting trip, dude.
I'm looking at your head.
joe rogan
You're going to go crazy?
bryan callen
I'm bringing it down.
joe rogan
Bring it down.
unidentified
You guys are going tomorrow, right?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
What time are we going tomorrow?
joe rogan
Let's not advertise on our fucking podcast.
bryan callen
Sorry about all that personal stuff.
joe rogan
This guy, yeah, he has 600 plus acres.
Chilling cult transcript.
bryan callen
Eh, whatever.
joe rogan
That's a lot of fucking land.
bryan callen
In Queensland.
joe rogan
But he looks so much...
Look at him, Brian.
unidentified
Oh.
joe rogan
He looks so much like Koresh.
bryan callen
Oh, he's handsome.
He's got sharp features.
Maybe it is Koresh.
joe rogan
But look at them, look.
bryan callen
Maybe Koresh escaped.
joe rogan
They both got that weird beard where they can't grow a man's beard, so they grow this fucking...
bryan callen
Yes.
Koresh might have gotten his nose sharpened.
Could be him.
And his hair straightened.
I think that's Koresh.
joe rogan
Duncan's more wild-eyed, I'm telling you.
bryan callen
Yeah, he is.
unidentified
This guy's so silly.
brian redban
When Duncan got into that hell thing, when he was hanging out with the Church of Satan guy, that was hilarious.
joe rogan
He thinks it's funny, though.
He does it for funny.
unidentified
I know, but it is funny.
joe rogan
Remember when he did that show?
For the wedding.
Yeah, for which guy?
Anton LaVey's son?
unidentified
Yeah, that was great.
It was hilarious.
joe rogan
Hank III, Hank Williams Jr. Danzig.
Jr. Jr., Hank III played there.
Yeah, it was just all crazy chaos, man.
bryan callen
Who's your favorite frontman of all time?
joe rogan
For what?
A band?
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
I don't know.
I never thought about it.
What are we, in high school?
unidentified
Who's your favorite?
bryan callen
Who do you think is the greatest?
joe rogan
Who's yours?
You must have one, otherwise you wouldn't have started talking.
bryan callen
Either Robert Plant or Freddie Mercury, but I'm not sure.
I'm toss-up between the two.
joe rogan
Yeah, Robert Plant's right up there.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Mick Jagger's right up there, too, though.
Mick Jagger's up there, but the problem with the Stones, and no one's going to like to hear this.
bryan callen
They don't write.
joe rogan
They had a lot of shitty songs.
bryan callen
And they haven't written a song in forever.
joe rogan
But they had some fucking monsters.
They had a few monsters, but when you pick up their albums, there's a bunch of Zeppelin songs that no one talks about that are fucking phenomenal.
You'll listen to them and you're like, oh, I forgot about this.
This is still beautiful.
And then you have some Stone song and you're like, what is this?
Shut this fucking thing off.
bryan callen
I think Zeppelin is the number one band.
joe rogan
Yeah, but didn't Zeppelin steal a lot?
bryan callen
13 songs.
They didn't credit either old-time folk songs or blues or musicians that they were influenced by.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
I mean, Dazed and Confused, and certain songs were...
I mean, if you hear it, they're a direct rip-off.
And they never credited them.
joe rogan
We played that, didn't we?
Didn't we play both of them back-to-back?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
There was a video that had all the old blues songs, like the lyrics from them.
unidentified
Made them a lot better.
bryan callen
I mean, and a lot better.
joe rogan
It just seems like those guys should have got something if they were still alive.
bryan callen
And they did.
They went back and they settled out of court.
joe rogan
Did they Fox News?
unidentified
Stop.
bryan callen
Stop calling me Fox News.
I hate Fox News.
I'm really mad at Fox News.
joe rogan
You'd work for them.
unidentified
You'd be like the Alan Combs, but more manly.
joe rogan
You'd be like the left-wing guy on Fox.
bryan callen
Fuck those guys.
I'd just be fair, man.
joe rogan
What if they made you wear a dress like those hot girls?
You're not?
bryan callen
I don't think they're fair.
joe rogan
You don't think they're fair?
bryan callen
No.
I don't like getting my news from an ideological point of view.
joe rogan
I'd rather get BBC. I listen to BBC. Do you think it's possible to have a news channel on television that's undefined?
It doesn't slant left.
It doesn't slant right.
bryan callen
That, at least, was the model, and I think the BBC, in a lot of ways, comes very close to it.
Maybe I'm wrong.
joe rogan
Yeah, but not there.
I'm talking about here, in good old U.S. event.
bryan callen
Yeah, I think it is.
joe rogan
The land of the free, home of the brave.
bryan callen
I think it is.
In fact, one of the things that the guy, who was the guy who ran 60 Minutes came in and said, good news and bad news.
Good news is we got the highest rating of any news show ever.
Bad news is we got the highest rating of any news show ever.
In other words, this just turned into a show that's dependent on ratings.
And that's why we're all going to get paid a lot more money.
joe rogan
Well, that's the infinite growth paradigm, right?
It exists in corporations and it also exists on shows.
bryan callen
Fuck yeah, man.
joe rogan
They want the ratings to go up.
The ratings are up, up, up.
100% of all Americans.
bryan callen
When you see shit on ISIS and those guys are coming up.
unidentified
It's on a Fox show.
That's him being a Fox show.
joe rogan
Yeah, you're on Fox, you fucker.
bryan callen
Ah, damn it!
joe rogan
I hate Fox.
unidentified
You motherfucker!
bryan callen
Motherfuckers!
joe rogan
You have sabotaged me!
Wait a minute, here I am on Fox News.
bryan callen
That was a morning show to promote my stand-up.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's not the same.
That's not real Fox, Fox.
bryan callen
Damn it!
joe rogan
Those local shows are the weirdest fucking form of show business.
unidentified
Yeah, they are.
joe rogan
Those local morning shows in strange markets, these local shows are the weirdest form of show business ever.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Some of them are great.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
And some of them are so bad, you can't believe this isn't a school play.
You're like, I am on a school play with cameras on it.
bryan callen
Well, a lot of them are just so bubbly and just, it's just strange, man.
Just fake.
joe rogan
Dude, and some of them are so bad.
I went on one.
Won't name the name.
Immediately, guys, first question was, so, what was it like when Phil Hartman was killed?
unidentified
Oh.
joe rogan
And I just sort of, I sort of blank faced him.
I go, it was terrible.
Like, one-word answer.
Like, I'm gonna give you a one-word answer for that.
I'm not gonna elaborate and expand, but that's his opening question.
It's like, you saw that video where Mike Tyson was talking to the guy in Canada, and the fucking opening statement, the guy says, is this gonna hurt the mayor because you were, you went to jail for rape?
You're a convicted rapist?
bryan callen
You're a convicted rapist.
joe rogan
You're a convicted rapist.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
I couldn't believe that.
joe rogan
Right away.
bryan callen
What a cheap shot.
What a shitty cheap shot.
joe rogan
That's, people love doing that shit.
They love doing that shit.
bryan callen
I think Mike Tyson handled it appropriately.
joe rogan
He handled it the right way.
bryan callen
We're a piece of shit, so what's more stressful is dealing with a piece of shit like you.
joe rogan
I thought, well, being a positive here, but you're a piece of shit.
Yeah, that dude was terrified.
He looked into the eyes of death.
bryan callen
Yeah, man.
joe rogan
And Tyson didn't even, fucking his heart didn't even skip a beat.
There wasn't like an extra beat to it.
Everything stayed nice and calm.
Changed He's probably wondering whether or not he should beat the shit out of this guy on the air.
He's already cussing him down.
He's not going to beat him up, but it's probably there, floating around.
bryan callen
I'd be thinking that.
joe rogan
Like if he just launched himself on this guy and just smashed his face in, it would feel so good for those brief seconds.
How much time would he have to do?
Too much.
Not worth it.
Don't do it.
unidentified
I don't know.
bryan callen
It might make him more famous.
joe rogan
Yeah.
He would go to jail for sure.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Imagine Mike...
Well, he'd be in Canada.
If he could get across the border real quick, I doubt we'd extradite him.
bryan callen
It's true, actually.
joe rogan
Especially if the guy really did...
If the guy moved at all in some sort of a threatening way...
bryan callen
Called him a convicted rapist.
joe rogan
If he could get the guy to raise his hands up, just anything where it looks like the guy...
bryan callen
I did one of those things after I'd done Hangover 2 and they asked me about the experience.
I started talking about the ladyboys and how...
It's a family show and I started saying, look, I'm a straight man, but those ladyboys look very female.
Man, did they get nervous.
They changed the subject.
And, okay, well, we're not going to go there.
Brian Cannon will be at such and such tonight and tomorrow.
I was like, geez, you guys shut me down real quick.
joe rogan
They live in a world of no fun.
bryan callen
It's really strange.
joe rogan
They live in a world of everything has to be like...
unidentified
Formal.
joe rogan
All right, let's go over here to the board and take a look at the weather.
Well, what we've got here is a cold front moving in.
That same guy has to do everything.
That same guy has to do...
Tom Cruise in a bit of a blow-up with Matt Lauer.
We'll tell you about it when we get back.
Like, who are you?
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
You don't exist in nature!
bryan callen
It's the strangest thing.
Guys who just talk as though everything is just fantastic.
joe rogan
There's certain people that you know shouldn't exist in nature, and they offend you.
They're offensive.
There's something about that.
They're like, okay, I'll let you read the news.
I'll let you be the robot.
But if you fucking try to give your opinion as that robot, well, you know, these days are different than when we were kids.
And a guy like Ray Rice...
She just know better.
Like, okay, you just talked about some important shit in some weird fucking fake voice.
bryan callen
I was just talking about that, about why I have a visceral kind of reaction to that kind of shit.
And I wonder if it's maybe because, historically, those kind of dudes...
unidentified
Cockblockers.
bryan callen
Well, they were also a liability, right?
joe rogan
Fuck yeah!
bryan callen
Like, you need somebody you can rely on when you go hunt for food, or you gotta go to battle, or whatever it might be, which was mankind's history.
I wonder if those kinds of people were always people you basically...
Because when they talk that way, they're not talking to you.
Well, I don't trust you.
You're not being real with me, so I can't rely on you.
I think that's what it is.
I think that's what happens to me.
Even when I see a guy who's dressed super cool, like there's a lot of time spent on, he's watching himself.
I go, oh boy, I don't know, man.
That looks good on you, but I'm just having a problem with that necklace and that hat.
joe rogan
You have too many rings on.
bryan callen
You got too many rings on, man.
joe rogan
I can't really talk to you.
You're wearing like six rings.
bryan callen
I can't talk to you.
Can't ultimately be friends with you.
That's my problem.
joe rogan
That character you can't trust.
Like, that's Dr. Smith from Lost in Space, right?
You can never count on Dr. Smith.
Dear Will!
Dear Will!
He would give you up.
He would give you up to the aliens.
That's right.
unidentified
If the aliens were going to kill him, they're like, I'll tell you where they are.
joe rogan
I'll tell you where they are.
And you're like, Dr. Smith, you fuck.
And the dad, who was always like rock solid with a square jaw, kept letting Dr. Smith in, this silly little homo.
I'll let him back in.
Dr. Smith was clearly gay.
Never wanted to have anything to do with the wife.
I mean, he was alone with no women.
He never fought.
Flirted with her.
Never imagined what it would be like.
He never said to him, you're married.
I wish there's no women out here in space.
I mean, you got the best woman on Earth.
There's nothing weird or creepy happen.
Yeah.
He was clearly an untrustworthy gay man.
It's probably one of the most homophobic characters ever because he was so weak.
He wasn't, I mean, first of all, he always watched the kids.
Like, the guy was always watching the kids while the dad, who was the fucking astronaut superhero, was fucking saving the planet.
bryan callen
Yeah, he was a hen.
joe rogan
He was sort of a Yeah, he was a hen.
And he was weak.
He was so weak.
He was clearly gay.
The way he talked.
Oh, dear Will!
He was just so weak and clearly gay.
Like, he was such a homophobic character.
But that was the only way anybody would ever accept a character like that on television.
bryan callen
Yeah, he had to be feminized.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
If he was in that position and he couldn't be trusted, but he was very masculine and strong...
bryan callen
Well, if he was really masculine, he'd be banging the astronaut's wife.
Right.
joe rogan
Or there would be a conflict.
bryan callen
Well, after a while, you're not leaving an alpha male at home while you're going off on expeditions.
joe rogan
No.
bryan callen
Something's going to happen.
joe rogan
Weird shit would happen.
Especially if the dude's untrustworthy.
Especially if you're in space.
You've got no shot at getting back to civilization.
How many seasons did they do?
After a couple of years, you've got to realize, we're going to live out here on the moon for a fucking hundred years.
This blows.
And the kids, they have to fucking listen to this guy.
They're following around with him.
They have to go back.
Dad!
Dad, he's lying!
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
That might start banging in.
joe rogan
Having, like, any sort of person in that sort of, like, completely artificial way in your life.
Like, you let them in.
It's like, oh, we let in some weird shit.
Like, if you ever run out to dinner, I know you have, because you hang around with a bunch of idiots.
You ever been out to dinner with a guy?
bryan callen
That's such a rude thing to say.
joe rogan
It's so true.
I know you have, but you hang out with a bunch of idiots.
Listen, you know I love you.
You're awesome, but you hang out with fucking dodos.
bryan callen
It's such an aggressive thing to say.
joe rogan
I've known Brian for so long that I know not to go over to his house when he'll tell me, like, sir, he's a good guy.
He just, you know, he's just a little weird.
He makes a mess or something.
He'd come over his house for some party and he'd be stuck talking next to some loon.
Like, oh, God.
Brian, what are you doing hanging out with this guy?
I know, I know, I know.
He wants to borrow money.
What should I tell him?
Tell him no!
The fuck are you doing?
You'd always have some new person that you were hanging around with.
bryan callen
Who would waste a year of my life?
joe rogan
Dude, that producer guy that you used to hang around with.
When I first started hanging around with Brian, he had this producer guy that he hung around with.
Producer?
Some guy was like a writer who was trying to make some things happen, meetings.
You don't need to name names.
You know what I'm talking about.
bryan callen
I think.
joe rogan
African-American descent.
bryan callen
Oh, yes.
joe rogan
Complete total hustler.
Yeah.
bryan callen
Oh, boy.
joe rogan
And I was like, wait, what?
How'd this guy get in?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
This guy's really close to you.
bryan callen
Even I saw that.
Oh, man.
joe rogan
But what did you do?
You kept hanging out with him.
bryan callen
He just was always around me.
joe rogan
You pitched shows with him.
bryan callen
Oh, he loved me.
unidentified
Ha!
bryan callen
Showed up drunk to a pitch.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
I mean, drunk like...
joe rogan
Well, that guy was a...
He believed he was smart.
He believed he was smart and slick and he was going to pull it off.
And he believed his smiles and his charm would mask...
The overall, like, slickster, hustler bullshit that he had underneath.
But there was no substance.
Like, he would pitch ideas.
He'd be like, what is this idea?
This dogshit idea you guys are going to go out with?
He just was all, like, energy.
And he had found a way to integrate himself into Hollywood, you know?
And there's a bunch of those dudes, man.
And you used to always have them around you.
bryan callen
God, there's some of those people in Hollywood.
joe rogan
How many of those dudes did I tell you, dude, you need to get the fuck away from those guys?
bryan callen
Well, I think about how much time I would have saved if I didn't get involved with those dudes.
Then I'd probably find other dudes, you know what I mean?
Like, there would always be someone, and I think it's a personality trait, where I would be pot...
You know, it's almost like, if you're like me, maybe because you moved around so much, you make friends really quickly, and you see the good only, and then you just, you're there to have a good time.
And then, slowly you go, oh wait, you're a complete fucking...
You're a liar, or whatever you are.
You have great...
I'd save so much time if I had your antenna.
joe rogan
You're a genuine...
My antenna's not flawless, man.
There's a dude that slipped through the wire.
There's a couple people that slipped through the wire.
One of them is that Rafael Torre guy.
I didn't really know him, though.
I can't really...
bryan callen
I don't know him.
joe rogan
He was friends with Eddie Bravo, and he turned out to be a fake Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt, and he murdered some guy.
unidentified
Oof.
joe rogan
He's in jail right now for murder.
He murdered some guy.
He was, like, banging the guy's wife, and then, like, they had an insurance policy or something, and he killed the guy.
Oof.
Yeah.
And was driving the guy's car.
Some crazy shit was going on.
But when I met him, he didn't seem like a murderer to me, man.
He seemed pretty fucking normal.
And I didn't ever see him do martial arts, so I couldn't see, like, whether he's bullshit or not.
I just met him at, like, a King of the Cage event and talked to him.
But then you find out the guy's, like, a murderer, and now he's in jail for, like...
You're like, what?!
bryan callen
Yeah.
unidentified
How is...
joe rogan
Okay.
Shit.
Maybe if I had a deal with him.
Maybe I had something going on.
Where, you know, we were involved in something together.
Some business transaction or something.
Maybe I could have seen the bullshit.
bryan callen
Maybe, but those guys are slick.
That's their job.
joe rogan
But he wasn't that slick.
Because I did eventually watch a video long after Eddie had outed him.
Eddie had told him, like, get the fuck out of here.
Eddie figured out that he wasn't really a black belt.
This was before Eddie was even a black belt.
Eddie was like...
A purple belt or a brown belt at the time?
It was before he beat Hoyler.
It was long before that.
But we were in the car once, and Eddie fucking broke him down over the phone while we were in the car.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, the guy kept trying to hustle, and Eddie goes, stop, stop, stop.
Are you a black belt in jiu-jitsu?
I just need to hear this right now.
Are you a black belt in jiu-jitsu?
And there was this pause, and he would start some other nonsense, and it's that, well, my dad learned Japanese jiu-jitsu.
It's just stop, stop, stop.
Do you actually have a black belt in jiu-jitsu?
Not your dad, not who you trained with.
And he went, there was like a silent moment, and he goes, I don't want to talk to you ever again.
Okay, you're a bullshit artist.
Like, you made me, I brought you around people, you made me look bad.
Like, you're not being honest.
You're not an honest person.
So, after all that, then I saw a video of the dude working out.
I saw a video of him doing like a spinning back kick on a pad.
It's fucking comical.
I mean, it's like someone showed him 20 minutes before.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
It was ridiculously bad.
But he had a crazy story, this guy.
He was such a hustler, such a bullshit artist, that he turned up, he told this guy, I need you to give me a ride in the woods.
I'm going to this No Rules Karate Kumite, and I'm going to be gone for a couple days, so come back and get me, like around Saturday.
So, he has this big duffel bag with him.
Okay?
This big fucking full duffel bag.
He takes it with him.
He goes off this kumite.
And then the guy comes back on Saturday, and now he's holding a trophy.
Has the guy pick him up at the same spot.
Says, yeah, I won this kumite, and I beat everybody, and now I got a trophy.
And the guy's like, you fucking had a duffel bag that was filled with this fucking trophy.
bryan callen
Oh no!
joe rogan
And you went to the woods.
He told me to come get you in two days.
So he probably walked home, took a nap, ate some food, went back up, waited for the dude to pick him up, you know?
And then, yeah, man, I got the trophy.
I won.
bryan callen
You never know, like my buddy Mitch told me this crazy story.
He goes back to the high school reunion.
And one of the craziest dudes was this guy, Fitzy.
And Fitzy used to, like he'd get on a car and you could drive 70 miles an hour and he was holding on to it.
unidentified
He was just crazy.
bryan callen
Always the fun guy.
And he'd fight and get crazy.
And he was the sort of hometown, crazy, fun, fucking nutty kid.
Good kid, fun and crazy.
unidentified
Right.
bryan callen
So Mitch goes back to his high school reunion in Tennessee and he says, where the fuck is Fitzy?
And his cousin, Fitzy's cousin, goes, ah, bro, it's a bad story, man.
And he goes, what do you mean?
He goes, Fitzy's in jail, man.
And he goes, what are you fucking, for what?
And he goes, ah, and everybody got weird.
And he goes, he's just there for a while and he's not coming out for a long time.
What the fuck did he do?
Well, it turns out Fitzy kept going to his Applebee's and there was a waiter there.
And the waiter would wait on him and Fitzy and he became friends.
And so one day Fitzy said, let's go to the cornfields and smoke a joint and hang out and see what we can do.
They go to smoke a joint and Fitzy tries to and does rape him and then tries to kill him.
After raping him, a fight ensues.
A fight ensues.
Mr. Applebee's runs through the cornfield, gets away, and goes, um, the authorities, please.
I was just raped and attempted to murder me.
He was all cut up and stuff.
Well, Fitz, he's in jail now.
That's a weird thing.
He tried to fuck a guy.
Fucking kill a guy.
It's not what you hear every...
And hung out with the guy for a long time at Applebee's and befriended him and had actually planned the whole thing.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
bryan callen
So you never know, ladies and gentlemen.
You never know how crazy somebody fucking is.
joe rogan
Yeah, what the fuck?
The fun guy!
He's fun!
bryan callen
He was the fun guy!
joe rogan
Hey, come on, buddy!
bryan callen
Hey, Fitz is here!
joe rogan
He's got a rock!
bryan callen
He's got a belly flop off the high dive!
Boom!
Oh my god.
And now I'm going to fuck you.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
bryan callen
Yeah.
So, who knows?
Who the fuck knows?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Those guys, when you grow up, too.
Like, you grow up in a neighborhood, there's like 50 dudes, whatever, that all kind of know each other.
Like, the potential for one fucking unbelievably crazy person is so strong.
Especially if you're in the city.
Have you ever seen that video of the kid who does a backflip off the top of a second-story building?
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
Yep.
Wild kid in the street.
You know, there's always those wild kids who try anything.
bryan callen
I have seen that video.
joe rogan
This guy does.
bryan callen
And he makes it the first time and does it again.
joe rogan
Oh, I didn't know about that.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
The one that I've seen, I've only seen one when a guy makes it and then he's hanging out in a diner afterwards and everybody's like, how the fuck did you do that?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
He backed his back to the edge and then just flipped.
Flipped through the air, landed, and collapsed on the ground.
It was fine.
bryan callen
It's one of the most incredible things.
It's the craziest shit I've ever seen.
joe rogan
Did it for zero.
Didn't do it for a nickel.
I mean, maybe he had a bet, but whatever.
bryan callen
I don't know, but it's the craziest thing I've ever...
I mean, I remember that going, oh, that's the craziest thing I've seen.
joe rogan
That shit, that's what happens when people grow up together.
And one guy pushes another guy, and the next thing you've got a Steve-O. You've got some crazy fuck.
Like Steve-O, right?
You've got some crazy fuck.
bryan callen
Well, Johnny Knoxville is the most gnarly.
joe rogan
They're all crazy.
They're all crazy.
Look, Steve-O was with lions.
He climbed a fucking tree, and the lions came up the tree, and they're swatting.
They took his hat from him.
That is fucking crazy.
bryan callen
But he talked about that, and that was a commercial he was doing.
And he said, do they climb trees?
No, don't worry.
They don't climb trees.
And when Steve-O was up there, the lion climbed up the tree and got onto him.
And Steve goes, well, I'm going to die now.
And the trainer took a raw chicken and waved it at the lion and got him away.
But Steve-O tells the story.
Whereas Johnny Knoxville will blindfold himself with a cigarette in his mouth and allow a bull to run through him.
joe rogan
I saw that.
Oh, I haven't seen this one.
Is this another kid?
unidentified
Five story.
joe rogan
No fucking way.
unidentified
Into a pool.
joe rogan
Oh, no way.
Why do I not want to see this?
bryan callen
I don't either.
It makes me so nervous.
joe rogan
Is he going to die?
unidentified
It's on a new bombs world, though.
joe rogan
Look at this.
Oh my god.
unidentified
Oh my god.
bryan callen
That's a bad motherfucker.
unidentified
Oh my god.
bryan callen
That's a bad motherfucker.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
bryan callen
Please don't do that at home, you guys.
Please don't do that, anybody.
Maybe I'm old.
Please don't do that.
joe rogan
That kid's crazy.
bryan callen
Holy shit.
joe rogan
What did it feel like while he was in the air?
Like, what have I done?
bryan callen
I don't know.
joe rogan
Imagine what that felt like on his balls.
unidentified
Oh.
joe rogan
Because your feet hit, and then your balls just get concussed by that water.
bryan callen
What's funny is he's not in the air for that long.
You know, it's so crazy, like, how fast you fall.
Like, do that again.
How many seconds was he in the air?
joe rogan
Well, not very long.
Don't watch it.
unidentified
You can't.
bryan callen
It makes you squeamish.
Your voice just got high.
joe rogan
I get super nervous.
bryan callen
I do too.
joe rogan
I get so scared.
When I used to do the Fear Factor stunts, and they'd be like looking over the edge of some of the buildings these people had to crawl out on.
unidentified
I'm like, oh.
joe rogan
Is this another one?
Oh no, dude.
bryan callen
What is this now?
unidentified
I don't know.
joe rogan
Oh no.
bryan callen
Please stop it.
joe rogan
Oh my God, this guy's going to climb or he's going to swing.
This is not good.
bryan callen
I don't know, man.
joe rogan
I just don't think I want to see this.
bryan callen
Well, I do now.
joe rogan
Why?
What's wrong with you?
bryan callen
Because.
joe rogan
It's not even another country.
bryan callen
You got to push yourself.
joe rogan
This is a different language.
This guy could die for sure.
unidentified
What are you doing?
bryan callen
What is he doing?
unidentified
Why are you doing that?
joe rogan
Oh my god.
Oh my god.
Look at this again.
bryan callen
Oh no, no, no, no, no, no.
That's so crazy.
joe rogan
He barely, barely made it.
Look at that.
What a jump though.
That's insane.
He missed by like a, I mean, inches.
bryan callen
I don't even want to see that.
joe rogan
Inches he would have smashed his knees apart.
unidentified
I have trouble sleeping with that.
joe rogan
You know, that's an interesting thing.
There was a study on why men do that.
And they were trying to figure out what it is about men that makes them want to do ridiculous stunts like that.
And they said that when men do that, it makes them more sexually attractive to females.
There's certain females that are attracted to men that don't have fear or are willing to overcome fear.
And that...
It's somehow or another, they think, in some way connected to the idea of a brave warrior.
Because a brave warrior faces something that everyone else is terrified of, but faces it head-on.
And that same sort of, like, reaction to watching someone do something that you know as a person is absolutely terrifying.
When they see it, it gets them turned on.
bryan callen
It makes total sense to me.
Totally does, right?
I think that's just a misplacement of energy.
I mean, that guy would have been, you know...
joe rogan
That's a misplacement.
Or it's not.
bryan callen
I'm just saying that back in the day, he probably would have been with a shield and charging into battle.
That's what I mean.
joe rogan
What I was saying is, isn't it essentially the same thing that makes someone like a crazy BMX rider?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
When they do those flips.
bryan callen
Yeah, man.
joe rogan
That's kind of the same thing, right?
bryan callen
Of course.
It's also pushing yourself beyond what you think you can do.
joe rogan
But the BMX guy gets money.
If you're a BMX guy and you do flips and shit and you're awesome at it, you can make a lot of money.
bryan callen
I also think it's juice.
It's also adrenaline.
Look, man, getting into a ring every day and fighting dudes where you might get knocked out, that's pretty daredevil-y as well.
That's pretty scary, too.
joe rogan
Oh, no doubt.
bryan callen
Running punts back in the NFL, fucking scary.
joe rogan
Yeah, but...
bryan callen
Any of that shit, you know?
joe rogan
Something about that is, like, when you're fighting, at least you're under your own sort of control in some sort of a way.
Yeah, you have to deal with somebody else, but if you know what the fuck you're doing, you can kind of mitigate a lot of shit, sort of.
At least you hope you can.
That's the ultimate goal.
But man, when you're fucking doing flips off a mountain, you're going off a mountain or a mountain bike, like...
bryan callen
Yeah.
unidentified
Whoosh, whoosh, whoosh.
joe rogan
Bam!
And then you're landing.
Some of those guys are out of their fucking minds.
bryan callen
I think you get addicted to the adrenaline, too.
joe rogan
100%.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
They must.
bryan callen
I mean, if I didn't perform, I would die.
joe rogan
Yeah, but I think it's a way crazier rush that they get.
unidentified
Fuck, yeah.
joe rogan
They're doing, like, two flips on TV and landing on a bike.
They do motorcycles where they flip through the air on a motorcycle.
bryan callen
Then what happens when that goes away, you know?
joe rogan
Well, what happens when it lands on their body?
Ugh.
That's horrible to watch.
bryan callen
Well, Jason Ellis still has to do crazy shit.
He got in the ring with Keith Jardine the other day, and he just put in a mouthpiece, no headgear, and goes, let's just slug it out.
And he starts going at it with Jardine.
Jardine just goes, alright, you know what?
Bang!
Just catches him with an uppercut, knocks him out.
Jason was like, it was fucking awesome!
He just needs the juice.
I was like, but that's Jardine who hit you and knocked you out.
That's not good for your brain.
joe rogan
He's been shut off a bunch of times, too.
I asked him about that once, and he said he's been out cold like six times.
I think that was from skateboarding.
I don't even think that was from fighting.
He loves doing it, though.
bryan callen
Sturdy dude, man.
joe rogan
Yeah, but that causes depression.
Too much head trauma like that, that causes you to do shit that you wish you didn't do.
bryan callen
I think those football players shoot themselves in the chest so that you can study their brain because they knew something was wrong.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Mark Gordon, the guy who's the expert in traumatic brain injury, Dr. Mark Gordon, he said it doesn't take much.
He said you could have one wrong car accident where you don't even get injured.
You just slam forward and hit the steering wheel.
You're fine.
Everybody's fine.
Everybody's fine.
You're a little fender bender, and you're fucked.
bryan callen
You're fucked.
joe rogan
You're depressed for months.
You don't know why.
bryan callen
Wow.
joe rogan
Your pituitary gland is just not functioning properly.
Your brain gets so rattled.
bryan callen
That's why a lot of people with brain injury go on hormone therapy.
Because their body stops producing testosterone and that stuff.
joe rogan
Yeah, well there's a bunch of shit.
Your dopamine levels drop.
Your serotonin levels drop.
Your human growth hormone levels drop.
You get tired.
You know they think that that's a lot of what they used to call chronic fatigue syndrome too.
Chronic fatigue syndrome, they attribute to a couple different possibilities.
One of them is Lyme disease.
They didn't understand Lyme disease.
They didn't start diagnosing people with Lyme disease until the fucking 80s or something like that.
It was a fairly recent disease.
But the other one, I think, might have been depression and head trauma, where they just don't want to get out of bed.
Remember that, when they used to call it chronic fatigue syndrome?
Remember that?
bryan callen
It was called...
I mean, they had different words for it, but yeah, it was like Epstein-Barr virus.
My roommate in college had that for like a year.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
I just, you know, had to...
joe rogan
Well, I remember there was some girl that I didn't know, but I knew her like peripherally.
And someone was like, yeah, poor girl, she's got chronic fatigue syndrome.
I'm like, what the fuck is that?
And I think...
I don't know if she had been in a car accident or something, but I want to say she was.
She's like in a serious car accident.
I'm trying to remember.
I'm trying to remember.
It's too long ago.
I might be confusing stories, but I remember thinking like I had met her before and she seemed normal and now here she is when she doesn't have any energy to do anything.
bryan callen
When you have somebody break down just what one organ does and then how it works with all the other organs sometimes, you can't believe that shit doesn't break down more.
It's just such an intricate machine and one thing is dependent on the other.
It's fucking nuts.
Where somebody will have a cavity, an issue with their tooth, and they have unexplained foot Pain.
And all of a sudden they realize that the nerve in the tooth is connected to the nerve in the foot.
And so what was really causing the problem, the pain in your foot, was not your foot.
It was your tooth.
joe rogan
Like an infection or something?
bryan callen
Yes, an infection.
There's a certain nerve that goes from the jaw all the way down.
joe rogan
You know people get fucking heart attacks from tooth infections?
bryan callen
Yes.
It corrodes the artery.
The bacteria corrodes the arteries.
joe rogan
How bananas is that?
bryan callen
It corrodes the valves.
Yeah, it's fucking, you know...
joe rogan
That's why this Ebola thing is so fucking frightening.
Because anything that just immediately shuts your body down, anything that immediately puts your body into a tailspin, 50% of the people that catch this shit die.
Die.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's so weird when something just goes wrong.
Like, everything's great today.
Today, what did I do?
Well, I went and walked the dogs.
I got up.
I played with my kid.
I went and played tennis.
What happened yesterday?
Oh, you know, same thing.
What happens tomorrow?
Ebola!
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Boom!
Hemorrhagic virus.
Boils all over your face.
Your face is covered in these giant fucking cell phone-sized puss bubbles.
unidentified
Ugh!
It's horrifying.
joe rogan
And you're bleeding.
bryan callen
You're crying out of your eyes.
It's like seeing that woman who went jogging in Florida.
And she was, you know, it was like seven at night.
And she had a long day at work.
She went running.
And she just dangled her feet off the bridge.
She was like, I just got to dangle my feet.
I'm just fucking hot.
And an 11-foot alligator was like, I'll take you now.
I'll be having you now.
unidentified
Thank you.
bryan callen
They found her with no arms.
Took her arms.
unidentified
Fuck.
bryan callen
Yeah, it was a good time.
Alligator was like, I know I'm an alligator and usually I don't do this because crocodiles do it.
I'm going to do it today to you.
You're going to be the only three people or four people of the year that's going to be eaten by a fucking 11-foot dragon.
That'll be me.
joe rogan
Isn't that weird that alligators, they let them hang around because they're not too aggressive?
It's like they're just docile enough...
bryan callen
They usually run from you.
joe rogan
...that people don't just decide to fucking kill them on sight.
But really, everyone in Florida should be up in arms.
They should run out to the swamps and gun those fucking dinosaurs down.
Like, those are a bunch of kid-eating, dog-eating monsters.
bryan callen
They eat the shit out of dogs.
And a guy was walking his dog, and the alligator didn't go for the dog, went for the guy.
joe rogan
Took the guy.
Jesus fucking Christ.
bryan callen
Jesus.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're just not as aggressive as crocs.
If they were crocs, we would be killing them left and right.
bryan callen
Crocodiles?
joe rogan
You know, they found Nile crocs in the Everglades.
bryan callen
Stop it.
joe rogan
Yes, they have.
There's a shoot on sight order for Nile crocodiles.
bryan callen
I fucking knew it because people used to have them as pets.
Nile crocodiles.
joe rogan
Yep, they don't know if they're breeding.
They don't have any idea, but they've spotted more than one Nile crocodile in the Everglades.
Confirmed sightings.
So they're saying...
bryan callen
Straight up killers.
joe rogan
Yep, you see them, they kill them on sight.
bryan callen
Straight up, they will come right at you.
You are food as a human being.
joe rogan
And they're big.
They get really big.
bryan callen
It's like that Peace Corps girl who's like, oh, they're in Kenya.
Well, the crocodiles died out years ago.
She heard.
She heard.
She goes swimming.
The guy's like, I don't know.
She's like, I'm going to wither out here.
I'm a water baby.
30 seconds later, gets pulled under.
Crock house got my feet!
Vroom, vroom, disappeared.
joe rogan
Dude, there was an article I was reading about these people that were canoeing in the Congo, and the guy behind watches the guy in front gets taken by the croc, where the croc just rises up out of the water and literally snatches the guy and spins the canoe upside.
Kayak, rather.
unidentified
Oh, the kayak.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
bryan callen
I read about that.
joe rogan
He's stuck in it, and it goes up and down like a bobber, and then plump, and then pops up.
No guy.
That's it.
He doesn't see the guy ever again.
The croc just takes him out of the water.
bryan callen
So the motto of that story is, don't fucking kayak in the Nile.
I mean, in the Congo.
Don't do that.
joe rogan
Fuck, man.
bryan callen
That would be the motto of that story.
You fucking...
Are you out of your fucking mind?
They're not like sharks.
They will bother you.
They come after you.
joe rogan
They come after everything.
Yeah.
That's what they're...
They're here for cleanup.
bryan callen
The fucking zoologist said in Uganda, he saw a saltwater crocodile, eat a goddamn tire.
Eat a whole tire.
I was like, I'm gonna eat this tire.
unidentified
Oh, my God.
bryan callen
Ate a fucking tire.
I was like, can you repeat that again?
He goes, it ate a tire.
I go, a car tire?
He goes, yeah, it ate it.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
bryan callen
So, your food.
joe rogan
Yeah, they eat everything.
bryan callen
Your t-shirt, everything.
joe rogan
If you think about it, where are they?
Well, they live in a place that's so rich with life that they have to be consistent in their ability to kill it.
They're the cleanups.
There's too many water buffaloes.
There's too many wildebeests.
When there's too many wildebeests, they go near the waterhole and they get got.
They get snatched.
bryan callen
That's right.
joe rogan
But you know who doesn't get snatched?
unidentified
Hippos.
joe rogan
Crocs don't fuck with hippos at all.
Hippos wade into the water with crocs and swim right by them.
It's the most amazing thing to say.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
Because hippos are so fucking violent.
bryan callen
They're like, go fuck yourself.
joe rogan
They break crocs in half.
They cut crocs in half.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
We're out of time.
That's it.
We have no more time.
Brian Callan, you are my friend.
You are the shit.
bryan callen
Thank you.
joe rogan
You are hilarious.
If people want to see Brian, it's B-R-Y-A-N Callan.
Has anybody taken B-R-I-A-N Callan and just started tweeting pictures of dicks?
bryan callen
I don't know, man.
I don't know.
joe rogan
B-R-Y. B-R-Y-A-N Callen on Twitter.
All right, my friend.
Much love.
Anything to tell people?
Where are you going to be again?
bryan callen
I'll be in Atlanta Improv October 16th, 17th, 18th.
Come see me.
joe rogan
Go see them!
It's hilarious!
unidentified
Yeah!
joe rogan
Very funny stand-up!
bryan callen
Mm-hmm!
joe rogan
Brian, you got anything going on?
brian redban
Columbus, Ohio, Grand Rapids, Michigan, and Indianapolis.
You can just go to deskwad.tv, click on tour dates.
joe rogan
Deskwad.tv, click on tour dates.
That's it, you fucks.
We'll see you soon.
Much love.
unidentified
Later!
bryan callen
Big kiss.
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