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July 16, 2014 - The Joe Rogan Experience

02:50:49

Joe Rogan Experience #522 - CJ Werleman

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cj werleman

01:18:29

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unidentified		Joe Rogan Podcast!
		The Joe Rogan experience.
		Train by day.
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joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		My guest today, CJ Werleman, will definitely ruffle some feathers, ladies and gentlemen.
		If you are of the religious inclination, if you are ultra-sensitive, if you have a problem with seeing Uncle Sam crucified on the cover of a book, it says Crucifying America.
		And on top of it, he's not even a fucking American.
		When you hear him talk, you're going to go, Hey, pal, you're not even from here.
		What's going on?
		Why are you shitting on us?
		What about your country, man?
		Thanks for joining me, man.
		I appreciate it.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, Joe.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for having me on, mate.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Please.
		I appreciate it.
		I watched a very fascinating interview today or conversation that you had today about the religious right.
		How much hate do you get on a daily basis?
		Because you're going hard here, man.
		You got Uncle Sam crucified on your book.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I always tell people when they ask me where do you live, I always say Southern California and I never give the exact address because there is a fatwa put out on me.
		And no joke, the Westboro Baptist Church, which we all know very well, when my first book was released in 2009, the title is God Hates You, Hate Him Back.
		They saw the title without understanding what the content of the book was and thought that I must have been on their side.
		And they thought, hey, we've got somebody who's written a book in pro of our mission.
		Once they took a look at my book, they realized how off base that was and I was attacking them for some of their beliefs.
		Fred Phelps actually issued a public fatwa to have me killed.
		So I want to leave my address to Southern California because I do have kids.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But he's dead, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Does that fatwa have any teeth?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Do you inherit a fatwa?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Does it get passed down?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, whatever happened to Salman Rushdie?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's around now.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's now out in the open.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I think that maybe people who want other people dead, particularly literal people, they have short memories.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was a weird one, man.
		He wrote a book that people had interpreted as being about the Prophet Muhammad.
		But it wasn't necessarily, right?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, it's more about the poetry, which was written, you know, on a segment of Islam, and it wasn't actually taking scripture from the Koran itself.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		So, I mean, what he wrote would be very mild in, say, comparison to a South Park episode where the Prophet Muhammad is dressed up like a bear.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Islam is a very fascinating religion to me in so many different ways, but it's also fascinating in that liberals have, for whatever reason, chosen that as being the one to defend in some weird sort of a way.
		Like, anytime someone criticizes Islam, they become Islamophobic.
		But you will never hear, like, certain segments of the progressive population shit on someone who is criticizing Christianity.
		You don't become a Christianophobe.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Mate, I mean, you've hit on a very important point here.
		The problem, I mean, Chris Hedges wrote a great book called The Death of Liberalism in America.
		The liberal class no longer exists in America.
		It has no voice.
		And to underscore that point, Hillary Clinton's popularity.
		Hillary Clinton doesn't stand for populist economics or she doesn't stand for progressive clauses.
		She's a brand and a brand only.
		So the liberal class has been left to be the political police force for PC correctness and that's it.
		So whilst you have Democrats in office who are attacking liberalism, things like the welfare state, Free trade and so forth.
		You had President Clinton who gutted the unions, destroyed welfare and implemented NAFTA which outsourced 800,000 jobs abroad.
		You're left with a liberal class that all they do is eat wines and cheeses and pick up people who are saying the wrong things politically.
		So yeah, I have a problem with political correctness.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, pick on people who are saying the wrong things.
		That's the big one.
		Saying the wrong things, not actions, not picking on people.
		And the Islamophobic one, that to me is a weird one, man.
		Like, if you're going to be scared of any religion, in my opinion, it's a good one to pick.
		Islam's a good one.
		The number one suicide bombers, the number one people, the things that they're doing to women in Islamic countries, the things that you're seeing in the news on a daily basis that are from predominantly Islamic countries, if you're going to be scared of a religion, that seems to be a good one.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but my point is that that's happening over there.
		If we're going to worry about what's happening here, you're far more likely to be called by a right-wing terrorist than you are by an Islamist terrorist.
		Since 1990, there's been 345 Americans killed by American Muslims, whereas there's only been 20 Americans killed by Muslim Americans.
		You can't count the 9-11 attackers as Muslim Americans because they're external.
		They were foreign fighters fighting for a foreign cause.
		So that's why I think the most dangerous threat to American democracy and our secular values is not Islamicism.
		It really is, you know, these Christian...
		Theological whack jobs that represent what is the Tea Party, which is really a proto-fascist movement.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		In this country.
		In this country.
		In this country, yes, you're definitely less likely to be attacked by an Islamic terrorist.
		And that's because America's doing its job and keeping us safe over here.
		We fight over there so we can keep you safe over here.
		I mean, I'm not exactly sure if that is a zero-sum game.
		I'm not sure how that is working, or if it's working, or if it's just some massive debt that we're going to have to come back and pay, sort of like the housing crisis.
		You know?
		I mean, it kind of seems like it, doesn't it?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's blowback.
		I mean, we've meddled in the Middle Eastern affairs for so long and we wonder why shit happens.
		I mean, you know, if you listen to the conservatives, they'll say that, you know, they want to attack us for our freedoms.
		They want to attack us because we like drinking beer or watching porn on the internet.
		You know, they have a very, very specific agenda.
		They hate the fact that we have our fucking military bases in the middle of the Holy Land.
		They hate the fact that we're not willing to operate in a bipartisan manner to solve the Israeli-Palestinian situation.
		And so that's why they're angry.
		You know, it's got nothing to do really with religion.
		And if you actually look at all terrorist attacks over the world, 95% of all suicide bombing attacks have been committed against occupying forces rather than being a religiously motivated event.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So religiously motivated in that they have inspired these people to attack and blow themselves up with religion?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Good point.
		What it is, you've got the power structure, whether that's, you know, if you go all the way back to Osama bin Laden, say he's at the top of Al-Qaeda, they have very, very specific political objectives.
		Obviously, the fundamentalist Islamic lowest common denominator in society who's starving and doesn't have a job, has no future, they're the ones they recruit to carry out their deeds.
		But they're certainly rather politically motivated rather than religiously motivated.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would assume that if you're living in a country and you have a giant, huge empire that has invaded not just your country, but a hundred different countries.
		We have military bases in more than a hundred different countries all over the world.
		I would feel like you would want to resist that.
		That would naturally be something that people would be resisting.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Imagine if JFK Airport was a Saudi national airport and they're flying their fighter jets in and out there and doing loops of New York City all day long.
		You've got guys in the South in the Confederate States who'd love to blow up the Capitol because there's a black man in the White House.
		Imagine if there was an airport.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll tell you what, CJ, with your fancy accent, you tell me how else we're going to keep America safe.
		At this point, how can you?
		I mean, that is the big question.
		I don't know what the real number is, but it's more than 100. More than 100 military bases in more than 100 different countries all over the world.
		People talk about the Roman Empire.
		Rome doesn't have shit on America.
		It's a joke.
		It's not even close.
		This is the craziest empire.
		Fuck Genghis Khan.
		Fuck all those other people, those amateurs that came before us.
		This is the nuttiest empire that's ever existed.
		How could you ever...
		How do you pull that back?
		Look what's going on in Iraq right now.
		This void that is being filled now by these...
		These jihadists, once we're pulling out the American troops and the Iraqis are being inundated with these various terrorist groups, this ISIS organization.
		It's scary stuff when you see what happens when the predominant power, military power in the area pulls out and then it's left this vacuum and this power struggle.
		What is the solution?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you first have to look back at the root cause of it all, and the root cause was we drew up fictitious we, the West, not just the US, but we, the West.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's not me, buddy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I wasn't involved.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		So we drew up fictitious borders, and we said here, basically said the three different people, you know, the Kurds, the Sunnis, the Shias, here's a country, we're going to draw the borders now, coexist and get along in Kumbaya.
		What happens, of course, it's those three, you know, three different, you know, sectarian sects can't get along, so you needed a hard man, a dictator, to keep the people suppressed and controlled, so it leaves internal strife out.
		Remove him, like we did, and then not replace it with a suitable alternative leaves this massive power vacuum, and that's why we have the situation where we're today, where we have all-out civil war.
		So is the solution, do you continue having a hardline dictator like Saddam Hussein, which was obviously a brutal, oppressive guy, or do you just withdraw?
		Obviously, there has to be a midpoint where there has to be a political solution, and that's the only way out of this.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A political solution though, but how do you organize a political solution when you're faced with these overwhelming numbers of jihadists and people blowing themselves up and Sunnis versus the Shias is the whole place is just overrun with turmoil.
		I mean, how does that ever become a political solution?
		That seems like a just a phrase that you can use.
		We need a political solution, but what does that really mean?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I've made a political solution.
		I mean, the only way forward, the only answer to this is you draw Iraq up into three different countries.
		But America will never allow that because you'll end up with the Kurds being a proxy state to Turkey.
		You'll end up being the Shia majority in the south being a proxy state of Iran.
		Saudi Arabia will never allow that because they're our ally.
		Iran, which is our natural ally for the wrong reasons, but they are our natural ally.
		The U.S. will never allow that either.
		So the workable solution is three different states, but America is never going to allow that to happen.
		So this is a massive shitstorm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A huge shitstorm.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		The perfect shitstorm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did you see the recent interview with Dick Cheney where he said that his number one regret was that he didn't invade Iran at the same time as Iraq?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Please.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That motherfucker is made out of pure evil.
		They need to scrape that guy and put him in a test tube and find out.
		He might not even be human.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I think he's part, you know, Sif.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's a demon.
		He's a demon.
		I mean, when he didn't have a heartbeat, remember that?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When he had that fake heart, you know, artificial heart that was keeping him from having a heartbeat.
		He had no pulse.
		Isn't that in the Bible somewhere?
		I mean, I guarantee you there's a religious text somewhere about a warmonger, someone who brings death and destruction through the land.
		He has no pulse.
		His heart beateth not.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		That was a Goliath, I think.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A guy who deferred from the Vietnam War.
		Five times.
		Five times, yeah.
		Five times.
		Was never drafted.
		Figured out a way to weasel his way out of the system.
		Got to a position where he runs a company that what they profit off of is Rebuilding things that the military blows up they get these giant corporate these giant contracts to rebuild places that the United States military blows up.
		And then he becomes the vice fucking president of the United States and starts blowing shit up.
		And then they start making money, and he starts making money from the company that he used to be a part of.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Pure evil.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's unbelievable.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And this is something I write about a lot is, you know, America, what America is today is a corporate totalitarian state.
		And how the difference is a great book by, you know, Democracy Incorporated by Sheldon Wallen, who was a Harvard or I think may still be a Harvard professor.
		And he says in the classical totalitarian state, something like Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia, you have a charismatic figure at the top.
		And it's where, in a classical totalitarian state, it's where politics trumps economics.
		In inverted totalitarianism, like we have in the United States, economics trumps politics.
		Now, everything has been sold to the highest bidder in this country.
		So, corporations run anything, and you've touched on such a good point with Halliburton.
		Jeremy Scahill, author of Dirty Wars and so forth, I'm a huge fan of, he's spoken at length how at the height of our occupation in Afghanistan, we had a total of 250,000 men on the ground in Afghanistan, only something like 45,000 Americans, 45% of that footprint The rest of us was actual American military force.
		The rest are corporate contractors, whether it's for food delivery, whether it's for arms supplying, medical or whatever, or infrastructure rebuilding.
		So when you have corporations who profit from war, And you have a political class in Washington who only is totally 100% beholden to these corporations.
		We now live in a country where wars are for profit.
		And we'll make our decisions based on what's profitable and not in the interest of national security or the American population.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The wars are for profit and also the wars become a business that you can't just end.
		You can't just end that business because then you take people out of work.
		I've heard that argued about the war on drugs.
		It's one of the best arguments about the reason why.
		There's so many lobbyists against legalizing marijuana.
		When you look at the actual health risks of marijuana being so minimal and the actual medical benefits that you have for people that have cancer and AIDS, there's so many different ways you can use it.
		The idea that this isn't something that someone's decided to like, hey, we can use this for people and people can benefit.
		Why isn't it?
		Well, one of the big ones is because there's a whole business In arresting people, imprisoning people, making sure that prison guards stay working, making sure that prisons stay filled, making sure that sheriffs, they need a certain amount of sheriffs, need a certain amount of deputies.
		There's a whole business behind that, and people have to recognize that when you change a law, Sort of just like what's going on in Iraq right now where there's this giant void when we pulled out of Iraq.
		If you just cut the ties on all these laws and say, look, this is all legal now.
		All you guys that were arresting people for all this shit, you're going to have to find some new shit to do.
		There's going to be a mad scramble and they're going to have to figure out some new way to profit.
		Well, that's the situation that we're in right now with war.
		The amount of money that's coming in from war.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is staggering.
		The percentage of our economy that's dedicated just to war is substantial.
		It's far greater than many, many other things that would be very important.
		Inner city restoration, you know, education, public education.
		I mean, the amount of money that's being spent on tanks and missiles and fucking just feeding troops and sending people over there and then contractors like Halliburton that are fixed.
		This is just amazing amounts of money that's flowing back and forth.
		And to cut that off, it's like you've got so much momentum and entropy.
		How do you stop that?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you've just talked about our incarceration problem or our prison problem in this country.
		Again, that's another part of the corporate totalitarian state.
		Now, you take a poor person, a poor black guy on the streets.
		What is he worth to the corporations?
		He has no money.
		He's not going to spend his money at Walmart or Macy's or whatever.
		He has nothing.
		But to put that poor black minority person into a prison, all of a sudden, these private prison organizations will make $50,000 per year out of taxpayer money for him being in prison for a non-violent crime.
		So when we're trying to dismantle and find solutions, that's the kind of headwinds that you're running against.
		There's too much influence to the corporations over the political structure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We can have these conversations all day, right?
		But what possible solutions can be offered?
		C.J. Werleman, if you were the president of the United States, you can't be and weren't born here.
		You've got a weird accent.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It was good enough for Arnold Schwarzenegger for California.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it was probably good enough for Arnold Schwarzenegger before he fucked his maid to be the president.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		She wasn't even hot.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		God damn it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's an animal.
		He's just one of those guys.
		There's a chick around him.
		He'll fuck her.
		But I think if you had a position where they said, look, man, you seem like a reasonable guy.
		You've written some great books.
		Run this thing.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, the solution for America, and this stops me from getting booked on a lot of shows, is the solution is socialism.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you said it.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		You said it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You said the bad word, bro.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What the fuck are you trying to take everybody's money?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It's like saying the C word.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Redistribution of wealth.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		Envy of the rich.
		It's all that sort of stuff.
		Yeah.
		You know, Americans, you know, nowhere in the Western world is the socialism or the S-word more, you know, associated with demagoguery than here.
		I mean, you say socialism, an American thinks of Stalinist Russia or East Germany.
		When I hear the word socialism, I think of the country I'm from, Australia, I think of Canada to a lesser extent, and I think of all of Western Europe.
		Socialism doesn't mean the absence of capitalism.
		It means where, you know, basic human rights are catered for in a structure which is paid for by the rich and the corporations.
		What we have in America is, you know, you've got corporations paying the lowest tax contribution to the federal government in U.S. history.
		Republicans will defend and say, oh, but our corporate tax rate is 35%.
		It is that on paper.
		The effective rate after all the loopholes, after all the deductions, all the loopholes have actually been written in Washington by these pro-corporate lobbyists.
		The effective rate is 12%, which makes it the lowest amongst all OECD countries.
		And that's the reason why America doesn't have nice things, like bridges.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Nice things.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's why we can't have nice things.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Like, you know, high-speed rail.
		I mean, you know, look, America today looks like a third-world country.
		I've spent 10 years of my life in Indonesia, the last 10 years before I moved here.
		America basically looks like Bangladesh with white people.
		It really does.
		Nothing works.
		Our high schools are falling apart.
		Our rail is running off its tracks.
		Our bridges are collapsing in the water below them.
		Not one US city is ranked in the top 20 most livable cities in the world.
		Not one US airport is ranked in the top 100 airports in the world.
		Is that true?
		Yeah, that is true.
		And it's because we've starved the federal government the revenue it needs to build a happy society.
		You go to Europe, and I'm always staggered by my hardcore conservative friends, debates I have online or in interviews on radio panels and so forth, and I hear conservatives come back from Europe and go, God, I had a lovely holiday.
		It's so nice there.
		You just see no poverty.
		The public transport works like you can set your watch to it.
		And you go, well, you know, you wonder why?
		Because they have a state where corporations are paying their fair share.
		In Germany, which hit, you know, economic hard times at the same time we did in 08, their economy is booming because they have a good blend of social democracy and capitalism.
		They made a law in Germany where if you have a company of more than 50 employees, at least 50% of your board must be represented by the working force.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The working force?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		50% of your board?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Must be elected by 50% of the labor force in that company.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
		So the folks that work in whatever you make, they have a vote.
		So half of them have to be elected by those people, so they have to represent the needs and wants of the people that work for that company.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's fascinating.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And Germany's booming.
		It hasn't stopped with Germany's boom.
		But the opposite of the American way at the moment is still trickle-down economics.
		And you look at Kansas.
		Kansas, which is basically a laboratory for Tea Party, hardcore conservative thinking, they put the most aggressive tax cuts on the rich that we've seen in the last 20 or 30 years.
		Total Reaganomics in 2010, now got a $338 million budget blowout.
		And now they can have to cut education and services to the poor and safety wealth net because they've got this budget hole that they can't explain.
		Now, I'll tell you how you fucking explain it.
		You just took a massive cut to the rich and corporations and nothing comes back for it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There is definitely a real problem in America when you were talking about the corporations paying a small amount of taxes and then you look at the infrastructure.
		There's some shaky spots in this country, especially New York City.
		The Brooklyn Bridge just had a giant collapse recently.
		You see that?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Some big chunk of it just fell down.
		Yeah, you got to fix that fucking thing, man.
		Where's all that money going?
		Especially when you consider in New York, they have to pay tolls everywhere.
		Every time you go somewhere, what is it, like $7 or $9?
		Yeah, I think we looked up, it was like $7.58.
		$7.50!
		I mean, that's lunch somewhere.
		And you've got to pay that every time you drive across a spot.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And you and I have to pay for that, or the people in the middle class in New Jersey have to pay for that, and that's because the wealthy aren't paying their share of taxes in the United States.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		So the middle class are the ones who get lumped with the tax bill.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Isn't it fascinating that when you start talking about this kind of stuff, you start talking about socialism, that the rich pay their share, The big resistance seems to come from a lot of poor conservative people.
		When the big resistance to socialism comes from these people that I don't know if it's like they have this idea in their head that one day they're going to be prosperous so they don't want you mucking it up for their chances.
		But I've found this quite fascinating, that one of the big resistances to the ideas of communism or the ideas of socialism, and these are just ideas, just bringing them up, but a knee-jerk reaction comes from the lower middle class or middle class conservative folks.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, what John Steinbeck said at base, he said, you know, Americans are temporarily embarrassed millionaires in waiting.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's hilarious!
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Everyone in this country thinks we're going to be rich.
		That's that individual ruggedism which Americans believe in.
		And it's very hard to break that.
		You've got the working class in these red belt states.
		Which are voting for a party which exclusively is only benefiting the top 1%.
		I mean, how does a poor person in, say, Mississippi or Alabama pull the lever for the Republican Party who has blocked the expansion of Medicaid, basically blocked the expansion of universal health care?
		One of the biggest predicators of poverty is your access to health care.
		If you don't have it, you're destined for poverty.
		And they vote against that, only because they say Jesus a few times before they go to the polls, and hallelujah, you just want yourself a vote.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A lot of folks don't realize that that all started with Reagan.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Reagan changed politics in America with his embracing of the religious right and using them as a political base, as a base of people you can guarantee are going to vote for you if you start talking Jesus.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, Reagan morally and financially banked up this country.
		Not only did he bank drop this country with trickle-down economics fiscally, but he also banked up this country because he taught Americans, a whole generation of Americans, how to hate the poor.
		And that's where we are today.
		That's why it's so easy for people on the right to cut veterans' benefits, cut food stamps and so forth, because it comes down to that Christian welfare, prosperity theology.
		If you're rich, even though Jesus was a Marxist before Marxism had a name, if it's rich, it means Jesus has bestowed great wealth on you because you're honorable and you're payous.
		But if you're poor, it means you must be a sinner.
		And therefore, if the blacks and Hispanics are poor, it means Jesus hates them.
		So be damned with them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What about poor white people?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jesus loves them.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		He loves them, but they still need to fend for themselves.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Because ironically, they get their philosophy from Ayn Rand, who is an atheist.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Ayn Rand.
		That's a hilarious one.
		The Ayn Rand one is a really interesting one because that's one that the libertarians seem to cling to and the pull them up by your bootstraps, pull themselves up by their bootstraps attitude.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It's easy to think like Ayn Rand if you're born into a privileged white neighborhood area.
		Everyone's got an equal shot.
		What are you talking about?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I love Canada, and any ideas that anybody has against what you're talking about, like socialized medicine, it's not the best in Canada.
		I have friends that live up there, and they say they've hurt their knee and had to wait 10 months to get a surgery, and that sucks.
		That's not cool.
		But they're nice as fuck.
		They're educated as fuck.
		Education is free.
		You get good universities all over the country that are pretty much commensurate.
		So you don't have this thing where you have to fly all the way to New York to go to NYU or go to Boulder.
		You can go to a neighborhood university and you're going to get an excellent education.
		It's a different sort of an environment up there.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And that's a problem because we've capitalized.
		And privatize the education system to hear such a degree.
		I mean, if you get a degree in Australia, whether it's Macquarie University or Sydney University or University of New South Wales, an MBA at one of those schools is exactly the same as an MBA at any one of those schools.
		Here, you know, not only does an MBA matter, but also then it has to be from the right school.
		So an MBA from Harvard or an Ivy League school Is Trump's an MBA from University of San Diego or something like that?
		And that shouldn't be the way.
		And in fact, what that does, it still keeps propelling that plutocracy because there was a study done that at least for every student at Harvard, each student at Harvard has at least one parent earning at least $400,000 per year.
		So we're still, you know, with the capitalization of everything, we're forming a system where we have, you know, the very wealthy at the top and we have everybody struggling at the bottom.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The elitism involved in education is really fascinating to me today, especially because there's so much access to information.
		So many books, so much online, so much to read.
		You can get so much access to information that would, you know, a long time ago, the difference between going to Harvard and going to San Diego State was pretty gigantic.
		But with what you have access to today, the average person has access to the exact same information that they're teaching at any school, anywhere.
		But I had a conversation with a friend of mine, and he was wrong about something, and I brought up this woman who had, you know, she went to the University of Mississippi, but she went there and this was her major, like this thing that we were talking about.
		And he goes, well, this guy went to Yale.
		But he didn't even go to Yale for that!
		He went to Yale for something else.
		And he's 80. So he went to Yale in the 1960s.
		Who knows what the fuck they were teaching back then?
		What are you talking about, man?
		But his first initial reaction was, look, she went to the University of Mississippi.
		He went to Yale.
		I'm like, oh, that's hilarious.
		But that is the way we think in this country.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		And also, not only is it the way we think, but, you know, these kids that are going to MIT or Harvard or Yale, well, it's the networks they take with them.
		So when the jobs are available, you know, the only growth area that we have in this country is the technology jobs, but that's such an insular job market where only the networks, the alumni from these prestigious schools get to really apply from it.
		All the kids working at Google, they all went to these, you know, fancy schools that could be afforded by their wealthy parents.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's kind of creepy.
		The elitism amongst education, I think, is kind of creepy.
		And it's also creepy that you wind up having these, like, skull-and-bones type organizations where all these people inside these, you know...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		George Bush.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, these fraternities.
		And John Kerry, you know, they get into these fraternistic groups, these, you know, very insulated groups, and they feed off of each other.
		And they, you know, they become very nepotistic, and they help each other in business, and they...
		Form these little teams together.
		I found it in sitcoms.
		In sitcoms, it was fascinating that a lot of the writers had went to Harvard.
		They worked for the Lampoon.
		And they would recruit other guys from Harvard.
		And those were the guys that they wanted to hire as writers.
		And I was like, that is really fascinating.
		You guys all went to this little club together.
		So you're feeding off each other.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and in the meanwhile, they get in front of the camera and say, I did it all myself.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I'm self-made.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		At this point, there is no self-made.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		One of the things that Obama made a critical blunder with was this whole, you didn't do that yourself.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		You didn't build it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if you made your own business, you didn't build that.
		I thought it was a huge blunder because instead of celebrating someone who does innovate and create their own business and get out there and do it, instead of saying this is a great thing and more people can do this and more people can contribute, instead he kind of focused on the negative aspect of it.
		Instead of saying something along the lines of...
		I think it could have been...
		Look, I couldn't imagine what the workload of a guy like Obama is.
		How much time does he have to actually consider every chess move that he makes, everything that he says, how it's going to be interpreted, how is it going to be twisted and turned?
		But that was a big blunder.
		It seemed like an obvious checkmate move.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		He was actually...
		The you didn't build it was taken a little bit out of context because the full transcript of that, he muddled the punchline, basically.
		He was channeling Elizabeth Warren, who had given a speech earlier on that, and basically saying, you know, the universities which taught those kids, you didn't build that.
		The roads which you're taking the trucks on and using transport to deliver your goods to market, you didn't build that.
		And the bridges and so forth.
		And he messed up the execution of the point, and then it was caught on, basically it meant every entrepreneur in America, you didn't build your business.
		But that certainly wasn't the...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't.
		But even saying in that fashion, saying you didn't make those roads, duh.
		Yeah, duh.
		Everybody knows that, man.
		Why concentrate on that?
		Why not say, but you did a great thing.
		You created your own business.
		But in order for that business to prosper, we need the infrastructure that all of us are contributing to.
		We need the educational system that is going to bring up the new workers that are going to be a part of your company.
		We need the roads.
		We need all these things.
		We all work together.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		But you understand that, Joe, because you're literate on politics, but people like Libertarians and these crazy right-wing Republicans, they don't understand that.
		They think these bridges and roads and infrastructure come from thin air.
		Actually, Libertarian, they believe the tax rate should be almost zero, and the corporations will provide everything.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		My only problem with taxes is that I feel like most people that are in positions of government, I just feel like the system that we have currently set up is so inherently flawed that throwing more money at it is just going to make a larger bureaucracy,
		going to make more jobs, more regulations, more people, and that whole system that sort of feeds off of the money Like we were talking about with private prisons or we were talking about with prison guards and keeping drugs illegal in order to feed this machine.
		When you make the business of government larger and larger, I don't necessarily think that's the best way to fix the problems that we have.
		I don't necessarily think that I've had this argument with friends that are very liberal that, you know, we just need higher tax rates.
		And I'm like, no, then you're gonna have more government.
		And I don't think more government is the answer.
		I don't think more regulations, more people, more things, more forms you have to fill out, more people that are in some strange office somewhere that have to justify their existence.
		I don't necessarily think that's the answer.
		I think it has to be some sort of a top-down organization, reorganization of the very structure, That this society operates under.
		Because right now, it's this foundation of this unfixable bullshit.
		It's so flawed that throwing money at it is like putting gum on a breaking dam.
		It's like, you need more than that.
		You need...
		Some sort of a comprehensive philosophy designed to reconstruct this whole situation from the bottom up, from the top down, the whole thing.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And I would argue that the way you rebuilt the economy is the opposite of every conservative politics or economics.
		How do you build an economy?
		And I'm not an economist, but I listen very intuitively to people like Robert Reich or Jared Bernstein or Paul Krugman.
		Guys who are Nobel laureate economists in their own right.
		And the reason the American economy isn't growing, despite the fact that we have record numbers on Wall Street, despite the fact that the official unemployment rate is falling, the unemployment rate is falling, but not with jobs that pay well.
		It's always these service-paid jobs and so forth.
		What's happening is we're not having shared prosperity.
		You know, we have the minimum wage level, which is below the 1969 level.
		The middle class income has stagnated and has fallen since 1979. So while you have corporations today sitting on record $3 trillion profit, that productivity isn't being shared with the American worker.
		And when it isn't being shared with the American worker...
		We live in a consumer economy now.
		We no longer make stuff.
		Our economy is basically financial services and military.
		So when it comes to financial services, instead of making products, we make stuff up.
		So if we have a consumer economy and we recognize that, then the middle class and the working class needs more to spend.
		And the only way you can do that is you lessen the tax burden at the bottom and you increase the tax burden at the top so consumers have more to spend.
		And the only reason these corporations, despite their record profits, aren't hiring is because there's no consumer demand.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What do you say to the argument that corporations shouldn't have to pay profits because they're not people?
		The idea that they shouldn't have to pay taxes, that the people in the corporation pay taxes.
		So the corporations themselves should not have to pay taxes.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, that's just absurd.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, these corporations benefit from our airports, our bridges, our roads, our transport, you name it, our rail networks, interstate highway systems, R&D technology, you name it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But the people that are in the corporation already do pay taxes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm going all Peter Schiff on you right now.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Let's see where you're going.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The corporation is just a group of people.
		Now, if all the group of people all pay taxes, the idea that the corporation itself, this unit, has to pay taxes on top of that, isn't that sort of...
		Justifying this notion that a corporation is a person, that a corporation is like an individual, which is one of the things that they've used to justify corporations being able to contribute vast sums of money to political campaigns.
		That a corporation, like the Supreme Court has ruled this, that a corporation can sort of act as an individual in that regard.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we need to move away from that whole line of thinking.
		I mean, this Supreme Court is, you know, basically radicals in robes.
		And, you know, since Reagan, I mean, you know, it's been a conservative-dominated court for the last three decades.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we haven't had a liberal judge appointed to the bench since LBJ. Who is the guy that's in the Supreme Court that said that pedophilia, that, no, having sex with a man is just like having sex with a man, no different than having sex with an animal?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not Alito, the other guy, the big fat guy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Scalia?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Scalia.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Scalia.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What the fuck, man?
		You're a Supreme Court judge?
		He said, what did he say?
		That if a man wants to have sex with a man, what's to stop him from wanting to have sex with an animal?
		Is that next?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly what he said.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Whoa, son, for real?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I mean...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You don't think that people are gay?
		I mean, you don't think that people are born...
		I mean, do you know anybody?
		Like, how could you say that?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I've got a lot of gay friends, and I know that sounds like, you know, one of those guys says I've got a lot of black friends, but...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And they're right before a good black joke.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I do have a lot of gay friends, and I've been to very gay parties, and I can tell you straight up that not one of my gay friends has said, man, I just pounded some ass, and I can't wait to pound your dog.
		Yeah.
		There's the next logical step.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's no denying that there are certain people that are fucked up and they do have sex with animals.
		I was young.
		I'm not sure if that's the same.
		And I don't think that you should be allowed to be a fucking Supreme Court judge if those are the sort of connections that you're making.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the five conservative judges on the Supreme Court are all Catholics.
		And that's fine.
		I've got no problem with that.
		But that means that...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I've got a problem with it.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		The Supreme Court is the highest court in the land, but you've basically got five out of the nine representatives on that bench who appeal to a higher authority, which is the Vatican and the Pope.
		So, I mean, remember when JFK... I mean, you and I are probably too young for...
		Definitely too young when JFK was elected.
		But when JFK's campaign in 1960...
		The biggest issue against him was the fact he was a Catholic because Americans were worried that he would have to answer to somebody outside of the United States.
		Well, we have that situation today, but no one seems to want to talk about it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is a fascinating thing that at one point in time, that was a detriment, that him being a Catholic was thought to be like a knock.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Meanwhile, we almost had a fucking Mormon in the present.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And no one wanted to talk.
		Mitt Romney said, my Mormonism is off the table.
		And the media went, oh, okay.
		How the fuck is your Mormonism off the table?
		Why didn't one person in the media say, do you still believe that in the Mormon heaven, black people will be your servants?
		I mean, why isn't that a valid question?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you still believe that you get your own planet when you die?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and do you believe Jesus, when he inevitably returns, will be to Missouri?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and do you believe that the American Indians were actually the lost tribe of Israel?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Why didn't anyone ask you that?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Because he said it's off the table.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that Joseph Smith, who was a fucking con man...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Convicted fraud.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, who found golden tablets at the age of 14, but they mysteriously disappeared because the angels took them away.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would have been happy if Joseph Smith was convicted for having sex with an animal or stealing something, but he was convicted for fraud, the very thing that he's trying to defraud the American public with, so...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And it's really funny that the Mormon church, the sect of the Mormon church that Romney was involved with was so radical that they moved to Mexico in the 1800s in order to keep having sex with multiple women.
		They wanted to have multiple brides.
		The United States said, hey, look, you can't marry fucking 20 chicks.
		Cut the shit.
		And so they go, fuck you, man.
		We're going to Mexico.
		And they went to Mexico back when it didn't matter.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because it didn't matter.
		The difference between the United States and Mexico before there was cars wasn't that great.
		Mexico was like Arizona.
		Just go down there.
		It's no big deal.
		We'll be in Mexico.
		We'll see you over there.
		You want to come visit us?
		Get on a horse.
		But then all of a sudden, at some point in time, America became America and Mexico became what it is today.
		And these fuckers are still over there.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		People don't really.
		The Romney Church, they're still over there.
		Romney's dad was born in Mexico.
		That's why he couldn't be a president.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And no one asked for a Romney's birth certificate.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's off the table.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's off the table.
unidentified		My Mormonism, my faith is off the table.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Where my dad was born, untouchable.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Five guys on the Supreme Court, Catholic, and the head Catholic guy, who I like.
		I like this new pope.
		I think if you wanted to have a pope, this guy is the best you could hope for.
		He has a very conservative chair that he sits in.
		He got rid of that crazy throne.
		He doesn't drive the pope-mobile anymore.
		He said, look, at my age, I have very little to lose.
		If someone wants to take me out, here I am.
		And he also said that he believes that 2% of Catholic priests are gay or pedophiles.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		But he hasn't interviewed the other 98% yet.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But how crazy is that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Two percent are pedophiles, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, I'm with you.
		I actually wrote a piece for Salon on the new Pope, and it wasn't my headline, but the headline Salon put was, The Lesson Atheists Can Learn from Pope Francis.
		I mean, he's very progressive.
		I like the fact that he's denounced trickle-down economics.
		He's called it an abject failure.
		He's talked about the poverty this has inflicted upon all countries around the world.
		He's talked about the failure of globalization and so forth.
		Yeah, I think, you know, we still have to remember that he hasn't, you know, denounced, you know, bigotry against gays.
		I mean, you know, and so forth.
		He hasn't...
		And he's still...
		He's just starting on the child rape factor.
		But yeah, I mean, there's...
		Certainly good points to be spoken about when it comes to Pope Francis.
		Certainly better than the former Nazi who moved pedophiles around to different churches because he busted them giving head jobs to boys.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was the worst.
		He was the worst Pope ever.
		He was the scariest guy ever.
		For folks who don't know, Pope Benedict, the guy who was before Pope Francis, was involved in a case where he moved a child molester who would actively target deaf kids.
		And then he moved them and the guy molested a hundred more deaf kids after he moved them.
		I mean, this guy was just a Predator.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's an evil fuck.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And Pope Benedict, they've kind of cooled down off of what charges people were rallying against him, but they wanted to charge him with crimes against humanity.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The Vatican itself, the way the Vatican works is it's its own state, correct?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Created by Mussolini.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It's the last bastion of fascism in Europe.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They also own a gay bathhouse.
		You know that?
		There's a gay bathhouse that's owned...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		That's not Berlusconi's bathhouse, is it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'll pull it up.
		Hold on a second.
		Gay Bathhouse Vatican.
		There was a big controversy.
		This is back when Homeboy was still the Pope.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the Vatican plays landlords to Europe's biggest gay bathhouse.
		The Catholic Church paid $30 million to acquire a building that houses...
		A senior cardinal, drumroll, and a huge gay sauna.
		This is on Salon.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		You don't have pictures downloaded, do you?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, but I have that picture.
		That guy's awesome.
		Oh, my God.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Ratzinger.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ratzinger, when he used to have that crazy golden throne, and he looked like something right out of the fucking Lord of the Rings.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he really did, right?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, with his conch.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		God, he's so sick looking.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What an evil fuck, that guy.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's another great picture, I don't know if you've ever seen it, of him.
		He's sitting there on his crazy throne, and they had these gymnastics guys do some sort of crazy gymnastics demonstration in front of him with their little tights on.
		And he's sitting there watching this, and I'm like, all the shit that this guy's accused with, you would think that he would want to be as far away from young men in tights as humanly possible.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		His PR consultant needs to be fired.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they're so lost and dark and creepy and trying to adjust for all the years and years of evil that the Catholic Church has committed.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		What I like about the Catholic Church and what you've got to say about this Pope Francis is the fact that it shows you exactly how man-made religion is.
		Because, I mean, Pope Francis is basically coming along.
		He's trying to adjust religion to modernity.
		So he's basically just making the rules up as he goes to adjust it.
		You know, this is like via committee.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's so crazy.
		Well, I mean, all of it is that way.
		I mean, the whole reason why they had to bring about this idea of purgatory was because they were trying to convert these pagans.
		Like, oh, yeah, well, you know, you guys have the land of fate.
		We got something like that.
		We have this thing.
		If you're not totally good, you go to this place and you're in a kind of a waiting room.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, same as circumcision.
		I mean, when they're trying to sell circumcision, the Jewish faith too, which was a, you know, Christianity was rebranded in from, you know, Hebrewism.
		They go to the Romans, hey, we've got this new religion for you.
		The catch is you've got to cut off the tip of your penis.
		And the Romans are like, hey, wait, wait, what are you talking about?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Christ.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's also the history of all of our major holidays.
		I mean, the reason why Christmas is celebrated during the winter solstice, that was because it was a pagan holiday.
		And they're like, what a coincidence.
		That's when our baby Jesus was born.
		No, no, he wasn't.
		If you pay attention to the Bible, he was born in the spring.
		He wasn't supposed to be born then.
		What are you guys doing?
		You're fucking moving around the dates.
		You guys are assholes.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		They're trying to sell it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to pay attention to that old shit in the first place because it's so difficult to decipher.
		You're going from language to language.
		And then on top of it, you got a bunch of people monkeying with the dates to try to bring in other people.
		You're messing up the whole thing, man!
		It just shows you how ridiculous it is, the idea that someone could have said something in stories and songs for a thousand years before they ever figured out how to write.
		And then they started writing things down, and then they translated it from one language to another, back and forth, back and forth, but it's still 100% correct and definitely the Word of God.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And you mean, you know, America's the most Western Christian nation in the world.
		And, you know, something like 85% of Americans have no idea of that historical context of the Bible, how it came from Greek, and how it was translated by scribes, you know, and so forth.
		And these were stories told in the oral tradition, and where the Gospels came from and who they were, which we don't know.
		Americans just think that, you know, the Bible came down in perfect form from, you know, fell from the sky, and that was it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It came from Jesus, and it's a lot of it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's about gay folk.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		About gay folk and their desire to have sex with animals as well.
		Keep it away from my children!
		Keep it away from my children!
		Yeah, we got a strange world we live in, man.
		We got a real strange world we live in when it comes to religion.
		Because they focus on certain aspects of the Bible, but ignore some of the most ridiculous ones.
		Like, you're not supposed to wear two different types of cloth together.
		You're not supposed to eat shellfish.
		If you eat shellfish, you're going to hell.
		Do you know that?
		Yeah, you can't go to Red Lobster, man.
		You're going to go to hell.
		You can't go to the oyster bar.
		You're going to rot in a fucking cave somewhere.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		At Red Lobster, you're fucked.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're fucked.
		Red Lobster is just like the den of sodomy.
		It's a terrible place.
		As a matter of fact, it's more hated in the Bible.
		It's brought up more often.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's funny.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		There was a Barna group study which talked about biblical illiteracy in America, and 25% of Americans believed that Joan of Arc was Noah's wife, and 40% of Americans believed Sod and Gomorrah were a married couple.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God, that's hilarious.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		That asked for anal a little too often.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's so few people that actually pay attention to the things that are in the Bible.
		Like, I have a friend who's pretty religious and he has a religious tattoo.
		And I'm like, dude, you've got to read the whole book.
		You're not supposed to wear a tattoo.
		You're not supposed to have tattoos, especially not religious tattoos.
		Having a religious tattoo, if God does come back, he's going to be like, man, you fucking missed the point.
		Totally.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It's on the same level as homosexuality.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're not supposed to get tattooed, son.
		You're fucking this whole thing up.
		Have you ever read or heard of the sacred mushroom in the cross?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The oldest version of the Bible is the Dead Sea Scrolls.
		And there was a guy named John Marco Allegro who was a...
		I forget where he went to school, Cambridge or Yale, whatever it was.
		He was a well-respected scholar, and he was one of the members that was deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls.
		And he was the only one out of the whole group that was an agnostic.
		And it was because he was an ordained minister, but during his studies of religion, he realized that it's kind of horseshit.
		So he became agnostic, but because he was an ordained minister, he was still allowed to be on this.
		He wasn't a vocal agnostic.
		Studied the Dead Sea Scrolls for over 14 years, and it was his conclusion after 14 years of translations that the entire Bible was a huge misunderstanding.
		The Christian religion was a huge misunderstanding.
		And it was really all about religious ceremonies that were based on the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms and fertility rituals.
		And that all these ancient customs were hidden in parables to cover them up and hide them from the Romans.
		When they were captured and when they were imprisoned and killed, they would cover up their ancient traditions of these consumptions of psychedelic mushrooms and the religious ecstasy they would achieve from eating these mushrooms.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was a fascinating, fascinating book.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess that lends to, like I say, the book of Revelation is a cryptology book that's written in code to protect it from being interpreted by the Romans.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he went to Oxford.
		That's where he went.
		He studied Hebrew dialects, and he was a scholar of ancient languages.
		And he wrote this book, and it was very quickly bought up by the Catholic Church.
		The only way to get this book is you've got to get an old copy of it.
		But in the 1970s, when the book came out, it was very, very controversial.
		Now, a guy named Jan Ervin has republished it through his family.
		He got permission to do it.
		Fascinating, fascinating book.
		There's also another book that he wrote that he wrote a second book because the first book got bought out.
		The second book was The Dead Sea Scrolls and The Christian Myth.
		And it was very, very controversial because of the fact that this guy was extremely educated and agnostic, very intelligent, very well respected, and rock-solid credentials.
		You couldn't deny the things that he was saying.
		The people that read his work, a lot of his strange conclusions were...
		Undeniably bizarre in the context of religion.
		Like, he traced back the word Christ to an ancient Sumerian word that meant a mushroom covered in God's semen.
		And that they believed that when it rained, this is, you know, you're talking six, ten thousand years ago, when it rained, that was God coming on the earth.
		And that these mushrooms that would appear out of nowhere underneath...
		It's really crazy because it's all based on...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Just a massive bukkake party.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, a giant bukkake party of magic mushrooms.
		But it's a long story to get into.
		I've discussed it on this podcast before.
		The people that are listening right now are probably moaning, like, not again!
		But it's also connected to the ancient story of Santa Claus and Christmas because these mushrooms...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Santa Claus is coming.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Santa Claus is coming to town.
		These mushrooms have a mycorrhizal relationship with carniferous trees, so you would find them underneath pine trees, which is where people always have pine trees as these Christmas trees, fir trees, whatever.
		And these red and white mushrooms look like Santa Claus.
		Have you ever seen the Amanita muscaria mushroom?
		Do you know what it is?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The Amanita muscaria mushroom is fucking Santa Claus.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		That's extraordinary.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It's...
		This is what it looks like.
		And all the ancient images of Christmas, cards, old Christmas cards.
		Jamie, see if you can find some old Christmas cards.
		They all used to have pictures of these mushrooms.
		There was elves and these mushrooms.
		And by the way, take mushrooms, see elves.
		It does happen.
		It's fascinating that these mushrooms are connected to...
		And also, the colors of the mushrooms are exactly the colors of Santa Claus, the red and white.
		The fact that you hang these stockings by the fireplace.
		Why do you have red and white stockings?
		What the fuck is that?
		Because that's how they dry out these mushrooms.
		The way they would dry out these mushrooms is by hanging them over the fire.
		So these red and white mushrooms were representative.
		Look at this.
		These photos, see them up there?
		Those are all ancient Christmas cards.
		See the Amanita muscaria mushroom appears over and over and over again and all of these...
		It's kind of been lost.
		The symbology has been lost.
		But that is the same mushroom that's on the cover of the sacred mushroom and the cross.
		If you pull that up, Jamie, the book, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, the John Marco Allegro book, it's all about this psychedelic mushroom, the Amanita muscaria, which is a very confusing mushroom because it apparently varies geographically, it varies genetically.
		That's the book, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, same mushroom.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a must-rated.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to get rid of that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And just an incredible sort of a connection.
		But it totally makes sense.
		If you think about it, you're living 10,000 plus years ago.
		You find these psychedelic mushrooms, you eat them, you have these intense religious ecstasy experiences, and then the Romans are coming.
		You fucking...
		You hide the stories.
		You come up with these parables that you can disguise as stories.
		And the apple of Adam and Eve supposedly was this Amanita muscaria mushroom.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That is the word apple.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's very many translations for the word apple, but one of them is red, the color red, and the idea of the eating of the red, meaning the eating of this mushroom, this red mushroom.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man, that's extraordinary.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They were tripping balls, bro.
		They were all tripping balls and trying to write things down.
		And then along the way, it got, keep my children away from the gays!
		And what is it that kept them from the original message?
		Well, most likely is the absence of these psychedelic experiences, these ego-dissolving experiences.
		Which are just forbidden from, you know, I mean, if you look at the modern Christians, I mean, what's the one thing that they keep the children away from the drugs, the drugs, the evil marijuana, and all the things that are ruining our youth?
		No, what's ruining your youth is ignorance as to what you're teaching in the very first place.
		Like, what are the roots of what you're actually saying?
		So few of them actually even know it.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Historical and contextual understanding of the religion is so poor.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's so hard, too.
		I mean, a guy like Allegro, a guy studying this book for 14 years, that's the big thing, is that's the oldest version of the Bible we know of.
		That's the oldest version of the Bible that's in Aramaic as well.
		So it's trying to add that to what people have just decided is the New Testament, which we all know was concocted by Constantine.
		They took a bunch of bishops and they threw some shit out and put some shit in.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		In the 4th century.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, clearly.
		Well after Jesus and clearly the hand of man involved.
		Clearly.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And that always blows Christians away when you speak to them.
		And they believe that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were eyewitnesses to Jesus' life.
		But Mark was the first gospel to write.
		And he wrote a good 40 to 50 years after Jesus had passed away.
		Matthew and Luke copied from Mark but used their own respective external sources 70 years after Jesus had passed away.
		And John wrote his gospel 100 years after the death of Jesus.
		So, you know, these stories were campfire stories passed down.
		And when you, it's interesting, one of my books, Jesus Lied, He Was Only Human.
		I take the New Testament.
		And normally when you read the New Testament, you'll read, you know, Matthew, you read Mark, and you read Matthew, and then you read Luke, and then you read John.
		And if you hear what each of the gospels has to write about each of the key moments in Jesus' life, whether it's his birth, His baptism, you know, his ministry, his trial, his execution, they kind of sound almost the same.
		But if you just focus on one story in Matthew, let's say it's his baptism, and then one story, and then on baptism in Luke, and then baptism in Mark, and so forth, you see how wildly these stories differ, you know, which almost have no resemblance at all when it comes to the facts and so forth.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not only that, that's a long fucking time ago.
		The idea that you're going to take anything from 2,000 years ago and it's going to make any sense whatsoever in 2014, just piecing it together, the idea that that's the foundation of the very...
		Structure of your society.
		That's the foundation of your your ideology That's the foundation of your morals.
		It's all based on this 2,000 plus year old garbled shit and not based on what we know today the Experiences that we have today what we know today about values and ethics and communication and the blowback of negative behavior That we're not trying to formulate our own new guidelines for life that we're all basing this on Don't eat clams and don't get tattooed and don't fuck guys.
		Like all this crazy shit that's old as fuck and that was based on nonsense.
		You know, it's quite amazing the hold that it has today.
		And I think one of the best examples of...
		One of the major problems that we have as a culture, and that's our fear.
		Our fear of the unknown, our fear of death, our fear of, you know, that we're not living our lives the wrong way.
		So if we have one particular ideology that we follow, anybody that follows another ideology is immediately attacked.
		And that goes for the people that are religious.
		Also, it goes to the people that are on the left that attack.
		Without doubt, anything that's on the right.
		It goes for the people that are on the right that attack anything that's on the left.
		It goes for fucking Yankees fans that hate the Dodgers.
		It goes for people who like Max.
		You know, those fucking PC guys are assholes.
		Like, we're weird with that.
		We want our choice to be the correct choice.
		We want our life...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And America is now, and polls will show this, America is more polarized today than it was on the eve of the Civil War.
		Oh, really?
		Yeah.
		Well, it's 20 or 30 years ago.
		We kind of all got our news from the same source.
		You know, there was CNN or wherever.
		Now, you know, the liberal camp and the conservative camp get their news from their own camps.
		It becomes an endless feedback loop of confirmation bias.
		And opposing thoughts and opposing opinions are taken no consideration.
		And that's why these political parties now, more so on the Republican side, more part of this Tea Party side, they've become a cult.
		They demand ideological purity.
		And if you're not ideological pure-- I mean, Eric Cantor, the majority representative in the House, was thrown out for not being conservative enough.
		Eric Cantor, not being conservative enough.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What was it that he wasn't being conservative enough on?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Immigration was the big thing.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, I think Virginia's borders are well secured.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a hike.
		It's a fucking hike for Mexico.
		Why are you going to Virginia?
		What is so attractive?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we need a bigger build of war in the South Virginia.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I like girls with a certain accent.
		Yeah.
		Build a wall around Virginia.
		That's hilarious.
		Well, the immigration thing is one of the best examples of how this country is fucking crazy and insane is because it's a country that was founded by immigrants.
		So this idea that we're going to keep all the immigrants out of a country that was founded by immigrants is holy shit crazy.
		I mean, not only that, it's evil.
		You got a bunch of people that are living below you in the South that are in a third world country that's connected.
		It's an artificial boundary created by man.
		It's not like it's across an ocean, like you have to get in a plane to get to Australia.
		That's separate from America.
		And you guys are closer to us than Mexico.
		We're more concerned with the Australians than we are with the Mexicans.
		I mean, Mexicans are involved in some brutal fucking drug wars.
		They have terrible crime.
		They have terrible corruption.
		Mexico City is one of the most polluted cities on the planet as far as air pollution.
		It's terrifying that this is all right next to us and these people are trying to flee to get out of this to get a better life.
		And we're like, fuck you, this is America.
		You can't even come over here.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I like how irony is lost on the right.
		I was watching a Sean Hannity piece, and he was talking about his immigration crisis.
		And he's got a headline to his piece was, Trouble in the Heartland, or Defending the Heartland.
		And the graphic he had for Defending the Heartland was the Statue of Liberty, which was a gift from France and promotes immigration.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		LAUGHTER That is hilarious.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Who knows?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That is hilarious.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What's the writing on the Statue of Liberty?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Send us your poor, huddled masses yearning to be free.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God!
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And what gets me is the lack of introspection or navel-gazing when it comes to this.
		It's our policies which have caused...
		These are refugees.
		They're not immigrants.
		These are refugees fleeing intolerable violent circumstances inflicted upon by policies, not only our draconian drug wars, But also, you know, free trade.
		NAFTA, again signed into law by Bill Clinton, displays three to four million Mexican farmers alone by allowing American agribusiness to go down there, build up their monstrosity industrial farming complexes, able to oversupply the market because of economy able to oversupply the market because of economy scales with cheap food and cheap fruit and produce, sends these Mexicans off their farms, sends them into the urban areas, and then the only profitable business is drug running.
		And then with America's appetite for drugs like cocaine, which come from South America at a historical low, they're fighting over a smaller and smaller bit of market share.
		And that's why they've become more violent and more tolerant trying to defend their smaller market share and turf in these places.
		So we've created the circumstances down there.
		And anyone who says we shouldn't take a kid who travels that far through the desert on their own, they're the people you want.
		And we're not talking big numbers.
		We're talking 40,000.
		We've got a population of 350 million.
		If we can't take 40,000 kids who bust their nut to get across this...
		In, you know, inhospitable terrain to make it in this country, well, give me them any day over, somebody, you know, somewhat Confederate in the Deep South.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you know, we're going to take America back.
		The South's going to rise again.
		The South's going to rise again.
		It's amazing, too, that they, you know, that Confederate flag thing, that's a fascinating one.
		The Confederate flag was representative of so many things to them, and, you know, his pride, Southern pride, and all these different things.
		Maybe you guys should come up with a new flag.
		Maybe come up with one that doesn't have a swastika on it.
		That's essentially what it's like for black people.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		That's what I like it so much.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Could you imagine driving around if somehow or another you find yourself in the Deep South and you're a black person.
		You're driving around and you see these rebel flags everywhere.
		You would think of that a lot like a Jew would look at a swastika.
		I understand that the swastika meant a lot more than that.
		And at one point in time it was actually like a symbol of prosperity and The swastika, at one point in time, it was like this ancient symbol.
		Maybe it was reversed, but it was used in certain types of martial arts.
		It was like old versions of karate.
		They had these swastikas.
		There's a Hindu temple that's near my house that I visited, and they have a big sign up explaining why there's swastikas everywhere.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, we lived in Bali, Indonesia for a decade, and when you drive around Bali, you see all these Hindu temples everywhere with a swastika, but it's actually in reverse.
		Right.
		But yeah, I mean, everything is...
		Mythologies are always borrowed, and ideologies are always borrowed from elsewhere, and yeah...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's fascinating that they cling to that goddamn flag.
		I get you like being from the South.
		That's cool.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		The South has never gotten over losing the Civil War.
		They're the worst runners-up in the history of sports.
		They'll never get over.
		If you look at the Republican Party today, because the Republican Party is so monolithic, such as a monolithic control of the South, That affords the Southern representation of the Republican Party of the most senior positions.
		You know, Eric Cantor is from Virginia.
		You know, Marco Rubio, you know, Mitch McConnell, you go down the line.
		They're all Southerners.
		And, you know, the whole policy of blocking Obama is built around obstruction, nullification, and, you know, and that drives, you know, the thrust and parry of who they are as far as a reactionary party.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's also something that unites them, you know, unites them in this group that they have, you know.
		Well, Southern pride.
		I'm a Southern boy.
		You Southern boy?
		I'm a Southern boy as well.
		You know, this group, their own version of skull and bones, you know.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and when they say take your country back, well, to where?
		I'll leave a say to the pre-Civil War days, but I won't say that in public.
		But then what they want to take America back to is the 50s.
		That's their idea of the ideal America.
		But that was the era of big federal government with the FDR's New Deal and so forth.
		And that's when they had it good, when liberalism was on the march in America.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that something that people always do, though?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Don't they always long for some day a long time ago when things made sense?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Nostalgia.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they have this nostalgia for the archaic.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's very common, right?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And oftentimes, ridiculously so.
		I used to date this girl.
		She used to talk about high school, about this amazing high school.
		High school was amazing.
		We were all young and free.
		I'm like, bitch, you had zits.
		Everybody was mad at everybody.
		Like, come on.
		You tell me 15 different stories.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		You got finger-banged once and everybody got told to school about it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you didn't have bills back then.
		Must have been awesome.
		Come on.
		You were living with your mom.
		Like, it fucking sucked.
		Get out of here.
		You can't think like that.
		Enjoy this moment.
		This moment is the best moment human beings have ever achieved.
		I believe right now this is the greatest time to be alive the world has ever known.
		Yeah, it's fraught with peril and all fucked up and economically...
		Completely out of whack, but I still think this is the best time ever because information is being exchanged at a freer pace.
		It's being exchanged at a faster pace.
		It's being exchanged amongst people that have never been able to communicate before by translation software, by just the fact that you have this internet that's allowing people to send messages and exchange information and ideas and communicate back and forth and influence each other in a way that's never been available before.
		before to anyone ever in the history of the human race.
		And if there's one thing that has separated us from the other animals in the world, it's our ability to communicate with each other.
		Well, our ability to communicate has never been better than it is right now.
		And I think there's also a change that I've seen in my lifetime where people are moving towards more progressive ideas.
		I think a lot of this resistance that you're getting from this conservative party is this battening down the hatches and trying to avoid this inevitable change.
		And I think this change, a lot of it comes from that, from this exchange of information, from understanding each other better.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think we're seeing the death throes of that white minority politics in America.
		And what we're going to see more dangerously is America, you know, it's the browning of America by the year 2050. Browning?
		Yeah, by the year 2050. Fear of a black planet?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is that what you're saying?
		Talking some Chuck D type shit here, man.
		The browning.
unidentified		The browning.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Can you say browning?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You allowed to say browning?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can't say colored people, but you allowed to say brownies?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I don't say brownies.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Brownies.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why is it brownie bad, but blacks...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, that's not a bad thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can't say blacks.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Have you noticed that?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		The blacks.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can say black people, but you can't say the blacks.
unidentified		I'm Australian.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what I'm allowed to say.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know either.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It changes all the time.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		The browning of America by 2050, the whites will be a minority in this country.
		In 2012, actually, that was the first year where white babies were outnumbered by black and brown babies.
		As we become browner, This white minority politic, this reactionary movement is going to become more aggressive, more frustrated because they don't feel like they have representation.
		And where terrorism starts, terrorism is a reactionary response to political weakness or political impotency.
		And we saw the shooters in Las Vegas, those two white extremists who shot those two police officers and the Walmart worker.
		If you read their manifesto, that's what the Tea Party manifesto...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Which guys are these?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Is this a recent thing?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, four weeks ago, six weeks ago, they walked into a pizzeria, shot two cops to death.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		In Vegas?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in Vegas.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		They had their Batman and Robin masks on, and then they shot themselves.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I didn't even hear about this one.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, really, yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, it was national news.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's too many of those goddamn things.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		You're watching too much of that wrestling stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what it is.
		Too much of that wrestling stuff.
		I didn't even hear about that one.
		But what was their manifesto?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, their manifesto was basically that, you know, whites are losing, white Christians are losing representation.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		America's been taken over by brown liberals, progressive feminists, and so forth.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So we're going to dress like Batman and shoot!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		White folks.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're going to take it out on cops and a Walmart worker and end up shooting themselves.
		But we're going to see more and more of this.
		And actually, the New York Times had a great piece on it, the rise of hate or the data of hate.
		And the explosion of right-wing militia groups in this country is threatening.
		And the more they feel that they're the minority, and the more they start losing national elections.
		Let's face it, the Republican Party is not going to win a presidential election for the next 20 years.
		In every demographic in America, the Democrats are gaining market share.
		In every demographic in America which is shrinking, the Republicans are gaining market share.
		So they're not going to win present elections, and that's why they focus on gerrymandering these districts, voter suppression, so trying to win at the state level.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is there a benefit other than socially?
		I do believe there's a social benefit to having liberals in office.
		One thing that I think that Obama has done, I think there's a social benefit to having a guy like that in office.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a social benefit.
		Well, look, I'm critical of Obama because he's governed like a Clinton.
		He hasn't governed as a liberal at all.
		Name a liberal policy he's implemented.
		Obamacare, that was far from a liberal policy.
		A liberal policy, when they had unilateral control of the Senate and Congress, should have been universal health care.
		But he didn't even fight for universal health care, even though he campaigned for it.
		I would argue we haven't had a liberal president since Nixon.
		And Nixon didn't implement liberal policies because he was liberal or had a conscience or was moral.
		He was the last US president to be scared by liberals.
		And there's a great story with Nixon when he's at the height of the anti-war movement.
		And he's in the Oval Office and he has Henry Kissinger standing next to him.
		And it's on the Nixon tapes.
		And he turns to Henry Kissinger and says...
		And all the White House is lined up with all these yellow buses of all the anti-war protesters.
		And Nixon turns to Kissinger and says, Holy fuck, man, they're really going to storm the White House and drag me out there.
		He really believed that.
		And that's what you want the White House to feel like.
		You want the White House to feel like they're afraid of the people.
		You want politics and politicians in Washington to feel like they're afraid.
		And the problem is they're not afraid of the liberal class anymore.
		Liberal class is dead.
		And to underscore that point is the popularity of Hillary Clinton.
		Hillary Clinton's just a brand.
		She stands for nothing.
		In 2008, she ran on no platform other than she was Hillary Clinton.
		She's going to run on the same platform because they believe they're not going to be against a once-in-a-lifetime candidate like they had in Barack Obama.
		So she's not going to stand for progressive liberalism.
		Liberalism, there's no such thing in liberalism in America.
		There's no one fighting for universal health care.
		There's no one fighting for free education or anything like that or higher taxes on corporations than the rich.
		I mean, this is...
		We live in an area where conservative politics trumps.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is there also a bottleneck in the two-party system, which is essentially what we have?
		You could say that there's a Green Party, you could say that there's a Libertarian Party, all you want, but the reality is they don't get included into the debates as soon as the debates get heavy.
		What they did to marginalize Ron Paul, who is a Republican, shows you what they do to anybody who doesn't play ball.
		I mean, what you saw, you would see him placing in polls like second and third and they would ignore him and concentrate on who was fourth and fifth.
		I mean, that was what they did in the media to marginalize that guy, effectively to do so.
		Isn't that the bottleneck?
		The bottleneck is that corporations are sponsoring these people.
		Corporations are sponsoring their campaigns, paying for their campaigns.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Massive donations.
		And then they have this agenda once they get into place to help these corporations that paid for them to get in there in the first place.
		Is that...?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		That's the problem.
		You've hit the nail on the head.
		And the problem is...
		I don't see the problem as being the two-party system.
		I mean, in most Western democracies, you have a two-party system.
		Australia, the UK, and so forth.
		The problem is, but in Australia and the UK, you have public financing of elections.
		Here, it's the opposite.
		So our voices don't get heard.
		Politicians don't come out to visit you and I. They come and visit and do these $30,000 per plate dinners, and they listen to the 50-odd thousand lobbyists which are in Washington and are paying their campaign finance.
		You know, there was 32,000, only a mere 32,000 donors in the 2012 elections represented more than 99% of all political donations in that campaign cycle.
		So 0.01% of the population is donating 99% of the campaign finance studies to political parties.
		Until you get rid of that, you're going to have two political parties which represent the interests of corporations and not of the working or the middle class.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Those numbers are crazy.
		Stop and think about that.
		I mean, everybody's fixated on the 1% in this country.
		The 1%.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		The 0.01%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's madness.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's madness.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All the money's coming from them.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		That's it.
		I mean, so our $50 donation, who gives a fuck?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is there anybody that you see on the horizon?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is there any movement, any humans that you see that are really trying to implement some sort of a change that you think have a chance?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Two.
		Well, two, but only one has a chance.
		Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.
		If Elizabeth Warren runs, she beats Hillary.
		And I'll tell you why.
		In 2008, it was a referendum on Iraq.
		Hillary Clinton.
		If Hillary Clinton had not voted for Iraq, she would have been the nominee and she would be the president right now.
		The referendum and the Democratic primary selection in this cycle will be income inequality.
		On that, she will lose to Elizabeth Warren because of her associations to Wall Street, her husband's record in not being a progressive.
		Elizabeth Warren is a champion for the middle class, a champion for the working class.
		She wants to dismantle Wall Street.
		She wants to dismantle these financial debt products which have wreaked havoc on the American population.
		And these laws and regulations haven't been changed since we had the crash in 08. We now stand on the precipice of repeating what happened on 08. Nothing has changed.
		And she wants to fight for these causes which will, you know, end the rigging of the game, so to speak.
		Bernie Sanders, I like him as well, but he has no chance in a national electorate.
		Elizabeth Warren could win the DNC nomination and also become president.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why does Bernie Sanders have no chance?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And how do you think a woman's going to be president?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, because, number one, Democrats yearn for a historic candidate, a woman.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They tried a black guy.
		Didn't work out so well.
		Let's go with a chick.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		So we want another piece of historic moment.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All the white men are all fucking around their wives and shit.
		I want to catch those bitches as soon as they run for president.
		They're all wienering.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and Sanders, well, Sanders is too much of an open-shirted socialist, identifies him as socialist, and so I think the media and the Republican Party will be too easy for them to slay him with the S-word, whereas Elizabeth Warren has never mentioned the S-word and is more of a populist Than a socialist.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The S-word.
		The S-word, is that unsurmountable?
		I mean, is it possible that what you were talking about before, that if you look at what's happening in Europe and you look at the benefits of socialism as far as Canada and some other countries, Australia, socialized medicine, socialized education, is it possible that that can be discussed in some sort of a way that's not going to knee-jerk turn people off in America?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, the problem is that you have a failed media class because the media class won't report the facts.
		The media class, you know, a Republican gets on TV and says there's no such thing as gravity.
		Then CNN says, well, we need to get a Democrat to speak on it.
		A Democrat says gravity is real.
		CNN says, look, Democrats and Republicans are fighting again.
		So you'll never have an honest, fact-based argument, and you'll never have the facts which are discussed.
		Social democracies work.
		Germany and these Western European countries have far less income inequality than we do.
		They also have happier people than we do.
		On their World Happiness Index, the top 15 countries are all social democracies.
		America is the richest country on the planet but rates 17th on the World Happiness Index.
		We rank behind Mexico.
		So it won't be long before they build a wall down there to keep us out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But that doesn't even make any sense.
		If all the Mexicans are trying to get over here, but we're not as happy as them, that doesn't make any sense.
		What's the World Happiness Index?
		And how does that even...
		No one's talked to me.
		Nobody interviewed me and asked me.
		I'm not buying it.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		You look pretty happy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm a very happy person.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't get it.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, the World Happiness Index is measured on some metrics such as pollution, access to healthcare, access to education, gender equality, income inequality, pollution, crime rates, teen pregnancy, and so forth.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And Mexico is better than America?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we rank behind Mexico in the world.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Someone is not doing a good job in America because most of the places that I see look a lot better than the places in Mexico.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That shit doesn't make any sense.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Man, you were in Woodland Hills here for a ride.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Canoga Park, specifically.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Canoga Park.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But I don't think there's any way that you can qualify a whole nation like that, though.
		You know what I'm saying?
		I don't think there's any way that you can say, hey, this is a happier country.
		Because you start statistic mining in that way.
		America's the least happy, the least this.
		But we're also the most innovative.
		We create more things.
		We have more art, more music, more pop culture, more comedy, more movies.
		So many things come out of America because of this turmoil and this crazy, fucked up sort of a way we live.
		It also lends itself to creativity.
		It lends itself to the distribution of media.
		We have more shit that comes out of here, good or bad.
		I'm not saying that all of it's great, but a lot of influence comes out of this one spot.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
		I mean, whenever I speak, I try not to come across as the...
		The typical American basher.
unidentified		Too late!
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Too late!
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		This is why Piers Morgan lost his job.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that guy was a shit.
		That's why he lost his job.
		He should have never got that job in the first place.
		He was involved in fucking tapping into people's phones, asshole.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Too true.
		I was upping for that so many times and I went to get noticed.
		Look, I'm obsessed with America and always have been.
		My friends in high school would...
		Always criticized me for being a wannabe American.
		The reason I moved here is because I am in love of America.
		And who loves America more than an immigrant who wants to come here and help make things better?
		I still believe in America.
		But we're doing things the wrong way.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Are you a citizen?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm still a resident.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm talking shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're not even one of us.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I can't vote yet.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can't even vote.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So if you become a citizen, you can vote, but you'll never be able to be president.
unidentified		Okay.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I can be governor of California.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that weird?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's weird.
		I'm sorry.
		This idea is based on the notion that someone is going to be groomed by Al-Qaeda to come over here and be one of them white-skinned terrorists.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And me living in the world's most populous Muslim country for 10 years won't help my resume either when I run for office.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		At all, right?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Manchurian candidate.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jesus Christ, you probably don't even know you're a commie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You probably don't even know you're over here to fuck up our freedom.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's a red in the bed.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jesus Christ.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You don't even know, man.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I'm a sleeper cell.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why is it that America produces so much, like, as far as creativity, so much innovation, so much technological innovation, so much creativity, so many good things come out of this place as well?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, you know, America's a great country.
		I think, you know, the U.S. has produced a litany of good things.
		Its contribution to the world culturally is, you know...
		You can't argue against it.
		But my point is that it benefits so few.
		And if you look at the new economy, inverted economy, as far as the technology, you know, these Facebook producers and these, you know, what was that?
		WhatsApp just sold for how many billions of dollars?
		$15 billion?
		They've got a workforce of like 25 people.
		25 people benefit out of the sale of that.
		So in the things that we're producing now, no longer have any social capital.
		We're not producing great products which can be exported to the world.
		Our technology has been bought out by the military industrial complex.
		Most of the R&D and technological research done in this country is to the benefit of figuring out how we can kill people better, you know, in other countries.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is that really true?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is absolutely true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How much of it is done on electric cars?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How much of it is done on electronics and cell phones?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, look at the electric car, and that's a great point.
		I mean, Tesla, you see plenty of them around in these rich white neighborhoods, and certainly where I'm from in Laguna Beach, you see a ton of them.
		They're the new Toyota.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You fucked up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You said where you're from.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I know.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I never tell people where I'm from.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		God damn it.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I said Newport Beach.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, you didn't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You fucked up.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Can we edit this?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
		Too late.
		It's live.
		It's live.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Is this really live?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's really live.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		God damn it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		God damn it.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I said Maguna Beach.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, you didn't.
		Can't deny it.
		You gave up two things.
		Canoga Park and Laguna Beach were fucked.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Oh my god.
		I'm going to be hearing Al-Akbar, but in the conservative way.
		So we look at the opposition Tesla.
		I mean, if it wasn't for big oil, we'd have the electric car years ago.
		And Elon Musk has spoken at great length of the opposition he's faced in bringing the electric car to market.
		So, yeah, we're producing great things, but, you know, the corporate totalitarian state, big oil, and these kind of interests will always trump.
		Look what's happening.
		Look at all these states which have posed Tesla.
		You know, New Jersey, for example.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, look at Chris Christie, man.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Texas, you know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What is that guy all about?
		Chris Christie is...
		Donnie Moore, he's getting slim and ready for 2016. They're going to fucking wheel him out there as a cannon fodder.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what do you call those motor-alizer two-wheel things?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Guy's such a goofball.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		He's done.
		He doesn't have to worry about Christie anymore.
		He's not a candidate.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's not?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's given up?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, he hasn't given up, but all the big money has moved away from him, because politically he's dead in water.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Because these lawsuits are going to follow him well into the 2016 election cycle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		With the bridge?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is that just the bridge thing, or is it other things as well?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It's the bridge thing, but it's the whole culture of intimidation, that whole New Jersey Soprano-like atmosphere which turns off women and independent and minority voters, so...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Plus, he's fat.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Did we mention that already?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, fat acceptance, people.
		Step aside, because you're being silly, okay?
		I don't accept smokers either.
		Smoking acceptance, I think, is equally stupid.
		Those are dumb habits.
		So is being morbidly obese.
		It's a dumb thing to do.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've got no problem with being morbidly obese if you're poor, because the poor in this country can't afford to be skinny.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		But if you're rich and white like Christy is, well, you've got no excuse of being a fatty.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That is true to a certain extent, but still, it means overeating.
		That is a personal choice, even if you're poor.
		If you're getting bad food, that's one thing.
		Bad nutrition is another thing, but the overabundance of this bad nutrition is just simply gluttony.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Man, look, if you're a family of four and you've got husband and wife on a minimum wage, let's call it, you're netting $400 a week, you've still got to pay rent, you've still got to pay the car, you can either go to Trader Joe's and buy a $15 pun of broccoli and some potatoes, or you go to Wendy's and you feed the whole family for four.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That is fucked.
		But the reason they're fat is not because they're barely getting by with that food.
		It's because they're eating more of it than they need to.
		It sucks that they're getting bad food, for sure.
		It sucks that it's so expensive to eat healthy.
		Those are absolutes.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		Hey, I am with you.
		I'm a fattest like you are.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm a fattest.
		I'm sorry.
		Sorry, fat people.
		I have really good friends that are fat as fuck.
		It's not that I hate.
		It's just that there is a certain reality to being morbidly obese that I don't think you're helping people with this idea, this notion of fat acceptance.
		And I think this is the broad end of the spectrum when it comes to these New ideas that I think, where people are becoming more progressive and more sensitive and more open-minded, I think there's great things to that.
		But I think there's also things like fat acceptance, where it gets to a point where, like, listen, stop.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I got in trouble on Twitter a couple of years ago for tweeting, I'm the Rosa Park of not giving up my seat on the bus for fat people.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You got in trouble for that?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know why.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Was a fat person trying to take your seat on a bus?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did that really happen?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, it didn't really happen.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So you just gave it up?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're just fucking around, being mean to fat people?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was just being an asshole.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Listen, that feeling of shame, this idea of fat shaming, people don't like that, but that feeling of shame, the negative feeling, is a feeling of social failure.
		And that feeling of social failure, that ostracized feeling...
		The only benefit of that, it's not good to be cruel, but the only benefit of that to the person who receives it is that it will motivate them to lose weight.
		That's just a fact.
		And fat acceptance, that means you're happy the way you are, you're good the way you are.
		No, you're going to die quick.
		Your fucking heart is pumping through sludge.
		You need to eat some vegetables, you fuck.
		Jesus Christ.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		You've never masturbated over Khloe Kardashian?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is Khloe Kardashian the big one?
		But she's barely big.
		You know what I mean?
		If you talk about...
		That's not fat.
		I don't call her fat.
		She's going to be a big girl.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, who's that woman who's the McCarthy girl who's on all those movies now?
unidentified		Jenny.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		Jenny's the hot one.
		Melissa.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Melissa McCarthy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She's the enormous one that everybody loves.
		She's America!
		Look at her!
		She's all chubby and everything, but all friendly and wacky.
		Poor gal.
		She's going to fucking die.
		Her heart is not going to keep beating if you do that.
		It's not going to last.
		Those really big fat ones, they never hit 60. They just don't.
		They never make it.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Don't have a heart attack in Disneyland Isle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		With a churro in each hand.
		Two fisting.
		Fucking with one of those hats on.
		A soda.
		Or a backpack.
		Like one of those camel backpacks.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		A freedom.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		With fucking mountain doing it.
		Yeah, look, there's a lot of bad things to the American diet.
		That's for fuck sure.
		And a lot of it is...
		Did you ever watch that documentary, King Corn?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Goddamn.
		Amazing.
		The depth that the corn industry and the corn lobby and the corn...
		There's these people that have grown corn and...
		That this subsidization...
		Subsidization?
unidentified		Is that a word?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Subsidizing by the American government.
		The corn and corn syrup.
		How much of this is involved in our food and our diet?
		It's amazing.
		It's in our bread.
		They have corn syrup in people's fucking sodas and their this and their that.
		There was a thing about...
		It was a lawsuit about Mexico...
		I'm trying to force out corn syrup, because they were trying to force them to use corn syrup in their production of Coca-Cola, and so they resisted it, and then they were sued.
		The whole thing is just, corn is a wacky fucking plant, man.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, it's so pervasive, because it's no coincidence that Iowa is the first stop on the...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Both parties' nomination process, that's where they spend all the time, you know, carpetbagging.
unidentified		Yeah, isn't that crazy?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No coincidence whatsoever.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But for anybody who wants, I mean, I'm not going to go into depth about it because we've talked about this before, but please watch the documentary King Corn if you get a chance.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Food Inc.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		is another good one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a scary one.
		That'll shy you away from fast food.
		I've taken a lot of heat about this subject of minimum wage by a bunch of people that think that folks who work in fast food or folks who work in entry-level jobs should not get paid $15 an hour.
		That's the number that I always throw around.
		I'm like, you can't live off of less than $15 an hour, man.
		You just can't.
		$15 an hour, you can pay your rent, you can get something to eat, and it's still not a lot of money.
		And if you run a company that can't afford to pay your workers $15 an hour, it means you're making too much.
		Either you personally are making too much money, you're not giving the workers enough, Or something's happening.
		You're not profitable.
		You need less workers.
		Your system is not efficient.
		There's got to be some way that you can pay.
		If someone works for you all day and they get paid less than a survival wage, you essentially have slaves.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is what the problem is, and I keep coming back to this point.
		In America, we have socialism for the corporations, but we have capitalism for the rest of us.
		So, you take Walmart or Bank of America, they pay their workers so little that we have to subsidize them with food assistance, housing assistance, and so forth.
		Every Walmart, the four Walmart heirs own more than the combined bottom 42% of Americans.
		Yet, are allowed to pay their workers so little that the average taxpayer, the average Walmart employee costs the average taxpayer in this country $1,300 per year in Texas.
		So you and I are funding the workforce for a ridiculously fucking wealthy bunch of individuals that can afford to pay their employees more.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		So that's socialism for them, and capitalism for the rest of us, and that's...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hit me with those numbers again.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The most wealthy people of Walmart.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And they inherited their wealth.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		They did not build that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Motherfuckers, they did not build that.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		They did not build that.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		So the four Walmart heirs own more than the bottom 42% combined in this country.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The four Walmart heirs, four people, earn more money per year than the bottom 42% of the entire country?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And Google it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I can't.
		I'll throw up on my keyboard.
		That's incredible.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
		So all we have to do is kidnap the four Walmart heirs, take all of their money, redistribute it to the bottom 42%.
		We've essentially cured poverty.
		You and I. With four people.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		High five.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a new Melissa McCarthy movie.
		Melissa McCarthy, she fucking gets a mouthful of donuts, she gets a good sugar rush, and she runs out and kidnaps the wall, and she lets them see the errors of their ways.
		And they wind up working, and at the end of the movie, they're happy, and they're working in Costa Rica, fucking saving people from hurricanes or some shit.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a crazy statistic.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And with all that wealth, you and I are paying each $1,300 per year to Walmart to subsidize their workforce.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Four people?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's incredible.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Koch brothers combined, the two Koch brothers own more than that.
		I think you'll have them Google it, but it's around about the bottom 50%.
		Two guys own more than the bottom 50% of this country.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so we got an issue.
		We got six people.
		We kidnapped six people.
		We take their money.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		You're leaving at the torturing part.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But we don't have to torch them.
		We just kill them.
		I don't mean that.
		Don't put me on a list.
		But if those people, just those people's wealth, the six people, you said 50% and 42%, but that's not combined.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, not combined.
		The equal thing.
		Separate.
		You've got to separate them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right, but how does that work then?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because that means the combined 42%, but then you also have the combined 50%.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		What the fuck is that?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		You can't add them together.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why can't you add them together?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Because you're still working from the same number.
		So the combined wealth of the Koch brothers is more than the bottom, roughly 50% of the nation, but the combined wealth of the Walmart is, so you're working from a fixed number.
		If you add them both together, it's not like the six of them own 92%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right, they don't own 92%, but they own double 42%.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So what is that?
		How does it creep it up to 60%?
		What does it creep it up to?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I think I told you at the beginning I'm not an economist.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm dumb as fuck, so we're screwed.
		Not only am I not an economist, I'm not good at counting shit.
		So, if you think about that though, just the fact that the four people from Walmart and the two Koch brothers, just those six people, what is the total money, the total amount of money that those guys have?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Koch brothers are worth a combined about $55 billion.
		And most of their money is from speculation, not from hiring people or building stuff.
		Most of it is from oil speculation.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So stock market shit.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Stock market stuff, which has no social value.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Money fuckery.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, money fuckery.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's really what it is, right?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And that's what Paul Krugman said.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		We're going from a country that made stuff to a country that makes stuff up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You ever hear what Putin said about the United States?
		It was before the crash.
		He said, I don't understand the United States economy.
		It seems that they just buy and sell each other's houses.
		He was right.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it was all before the shit hit the fan.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It's all these wacky financial instruments, you know, moving numbers on a screen.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How can that be fixed, though?
		I mean, first of all, the only way to fix the Koch brothers' situation is, I mean, there's no way, right?
		I mean, you would have to...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you'd have to end all speculation, but Robert Reich, who speaks about this extensively, is you have a trading tax.
		At the moment, these guys can trade minor pips, every pip of a screen, to the three decimal places, whether it's on currency, whether it's on gas.
		When you're moving tens and hundreds of millions of dollars, one pip is a ton of money.
		But there should be a trading tax on each one of these trades, because this volume of trade, this volume of money benefits society in no measurable mean.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Goddamn, man.
		What a weird world we live in when that's real.
		These are the numbers that Jamie just threw up here.
		The collective wealth of the six richest Waltons rose from $73 billion to $90 billion while the wealth of the average American declined from $126,000 to $77,000.
		13 million Americans have negative net worth.
		That's a crazy thing.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I was exactly right.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		The six Walmart heads now have more wealth than the bottom 42%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		God!
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I don't just make numbers up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I didn't think you did.
		I didn't even check.
		I thought you were telling the truth for sure.
		There's a recent article that I brought up yesterday's podcast that Michael Shermer wrote in Scientific American that was torn apart about the myth of financial inequality.
		It's like one of the dumbest articles I've ever written.
		The way I know whether something's dumb is if I think it's dumb.
		I can see the logical fallacies in your argument about finance.
		But what is that coming from?
		Everything's fine.
		This everything's fine thing where people want to sort of manipulate statistics and look at things from sort of a rose-colored glasses point of view.
		What's that from?
		What causes people?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Because people have no experience to what is happening in America.
		I live...
		I'm not going to say the name of the town that I already said that I live in.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You live in a nice spot.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		In a nice spot.
		And the area I live in is, I'm going to guess, 90% white and moderately wealthy to wealthy.
		And they have no clue what's happening in these Rust Belt states.
		You know, through the Northwest, which are particularly the basis of manufacturing.
		I mean, these are economies which have been absolutely destroyed through globalization.
		There is no economic recovery.
		You know, despite, and you spoke with us before, despite the Dow at record highs and despite the unemployment number happening, we're not going to get these jobs back because we now have the Walmart business model is the model that the rest of the corporate world in this country emulates.
		In the 18th century, it was the Pennsylvania Railroad country.
		In the 20th century, it was IBM. Today, it's Walmart.
		So what Walmart does is it makes cities bid against each other to get tax breaks to move.
		So they can say, hey, we're going to put a store in your place.
		They get two cities that bid against it.
		So it becomes a race to the bottom as far as corporate subsidies and welfare.
		Every time a Walmart store opens, every time Walmart employs a new employee, 1.4 American workers is displaced.
		Now, their control of the American economy, the retail economy, is so dominant that they have such control over their suppliers.
		Procurement at Walmart, they demand a 5% reduction of their suppliers every year.
		If you can't reduce your costs to Walmart by 5% every year, then we'll fuck off goodbye.
		So after about five years of doing this, where you've cut 5%, 5%, eventually Walmart says to their suppliers, well, you need to move to China.
		And if you move to China, we'll help you set up.
		If you don't move to China, we do no business no longer.
		And that has happened with countless number of companies.
		Companies like Rubbermaid, a great American company, which had a workforce in the hundreds of thousands of people in the 70s and the 80s.
		You know, almost no longer exists in that form anymore because they couldn't, you know...
		Initially, they didn't move to China, but they have now.
		So there's globalization as free trade.
		It's not benefiting anyone.
		And that's the model that we operate under.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is there a way to...
		First of all, there was a number that you threw out that I got confused about.
		You said for every time a Walmart opens, 1.4 Americans are misplaced.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It's displaced.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
		1.4?
		It's one person?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		So every time Walmart employs a person, 1.4, Americans loses a job elsewhere.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, every time they employ one person, 1.4.
		So for every one person they employ, more than one.
		That kind of makes sense.
		And the mom-and-pop store, the death of the mom-and-pop store, has been really criticized, both by people that are against Walmart, but also people that they're saying, you know, why don't you...
		Shop and vote with your dollar.
		If you appreciate mom and pop stores and they cost five more dollars when you go in there, just go.
		Pay them the five more dollars.
		Do you understand how Walmart is making things so cheap?
		Do you understand that the people that work there, with the number that you threw around, that for every Walmart worker we pay, what was the amount of money that every person has to pay in tax dollars for $1,300?
		If those things were just made more clear and people voted with their dollar more, do you think it's possible that something like Walmart can slowly die away?
		That these monolithic corporations that have this massive control over economies...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		But Walmart destroys communities to such an extent that people in these communities can only afford to shop at Walmart.
		It becomes this vicious cycle.
		Unless you put in policies which regulate trade and protect the working class, protecting the class, you're not going to solve the problem.
		And another great sort of hypocrisy is how, for example, the Republican Party presents itself as the party of small business, because it's a nice nostalgic picture that's painted in people's mind.
		They picture a ma and pa, small business operation, you know, on Main Street in middle America.
		But name a single policy that the Republican Party have helped small businesses with.
		Has the Republican Party protected the mar and par operation from these monopolies, these oligopolies?
		Do they give the same tax breaks that they do, these corporate subsidies that they do to these big organizations to drown the business out?
		No, they haven't.
		You know, the Republican Party hasn't looked after small businesses at all in this country.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that's just the way it is.
		No one's fighting against that.
		That's not like a big rallying cry of neither the Democrats nor the Republicans.
		This is not something that anybody's bringing up.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, and that comes to political ignorance, and political ignorance born from either our education system or the fact that the mainstream media only reports titillating issues.
		We're still talking about flight missing MH370 or Anna Nicole Smith's death.
		It's a focus on celebrity and trivia rather than on real issues.
		There's no Walter Cronkite in the news anymore.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That is true.
		There's no real news anymore.
		There's television programs that highlight, they're entertainment programs that highlight things they think people are going to be interested in.
		But they don't have a desire for journalism.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, they don't.
		And it's corporate controlled media.
		How many venues on corporate-owned media do you think I'm going to get booked when I talk about the corporate totalitarian state?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not a lot.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Your show.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can come back for sure.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you get chills down your spine when you see things like what's going on with Edward Snowden, when you see what's going on with Julian Assange, when people do expose...
		Some really horrific things that our government's involved with.
		The underpinnings of our society itself.
		The mechanism involved in what's turning the wheels of the military-industrial complex.
		When that gets exposed, and you see some court just upheld the arrest warrant against Julian Assange.
		For what?
		For having sex with a woman, supposedly?
		Or whatever the fuck?
		One of the most...
		Dubious and questionable charges of all time that's involved in an international incident.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, is there ever been a more transparent situation when they're going after someone and pretending it's something else?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's always dangerous grounds to, I guess, to trivialize any rape charge, but you're dead right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But it's not even a rape charge.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If it was rape...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the circumstances which I've read are so fishy and dubious, as you've said, but...
		You know, one of the most frustrating things is we would be more, the American population certainly would be more angry about the NSA overreach if there was a Republican in office.
		The fact that it's Obama in office has placated, you know, Democrats and the liberal class.
		They just think, oh, well, if Obama's happy with it, it must mean it's okay.
		I guess it's not too bad.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And also part of the problem is, you know, the millennial generation, you know, it's, hey, look at me, you know.
		So we've become such a, hey, look at me, you know, Instagram selfies, Facebook accounts, Twitter, and they think the more exposure, the better.
		So when they talk about, you know, being watched, well, they like being watched.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There is that thing, though, that if it was a Republican that was in office and you were dealing with this NSA leak where you find out that they're downloading every fucking email you have, every phone call you make is being recorded, people would be up in arms.
		But because of the fact that it's a Democrat, the very same people who would be up in arms are sort of letting it slide in a way.
		Partisanship.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		And that's how, you know, coming back to what I said earlier, you know, we're living in the most polarised moment in American history and we only see things and issues through the lens of our political parties.
		You know, we're deeply entrenched in our own camps and we only listen to the talking heads who feed red meat to our respective camps.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We're goofy as fuck, in other words.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and not too many conservative, not too many Tea Party voters read my pieces, you know, in Salon.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Salon, you can be, well, if they do read it, they read it to get angry.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Before they go out to the rifle range and fucking shoot pumpkins with Obama's picture pasted on it.
unidentified		You know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		God damn it!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did you hear what he said about Jesus?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're actively trying to piss them off with your titles of your books, right?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Crucifying America.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Atheists Can't Be Republicans.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		God hates you, hate him back.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, all those.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I just got an email yesterday saying, God doesn't hate you, everybody else does.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, how rude.
		God loves you, but I hate you.
		Is that what they're saying?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, pretty much.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you're not a child of God.
		Who the fuck are you?
		You're not doing it right, right?
		They're not.
		They're doing it wrong.
		You can't just run around saying that God doesn't hate you, but I do.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fuck.
		If you know that, if you know God doesn't, you're supposed to love him then.
		Is that what they're supposed to do?
		Turn the other cheek?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't see much forgiveness.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I'm not copying much forgiveness at all.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever met a real Christian like that, who forgives you for your...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, actually, I have a lot of friends who are Christians.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you really?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I do.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You said this twice.
		You said, I have a lot of friends who are Christians.
		You said a lot of friends who are right-wing Republicans.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		A lot of gay friends.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I said that as well.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you really have these friends?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, I just make it up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I knew it.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		To be honest, I think there's seven billion people in the world.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I really only know four of them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Really well, right?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		But I do.
		I mean, actually, it's funny.
		Mormons, and I had this conversation with a friend the other day.
		Every Mormon I've met is actually super nice.
		Actually, one of the hottest Mormons on the planet is Abby Huntsman, John Huntsman's daughter.
		She's on MSNBC. Oh my god, I do have a little crush on her.
		Do you?
		Yeah, yeah.
		You've seen her.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I might have.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Which one is she?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What's her name?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Abby Huntsman.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't watch MSNBC. I try to avoid all mainstream media at this point.
		I get almost all my news from the internet.
		I've kind of completely given up on watching Fox.
		I might watch Fox just for the hot chicks.
		I watch Fox just to see chicks cross and uncross their legs back and forth.
		Is this her?
		She's a Mormon?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She's beautiful.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But she's a silly bitch.
		There's no doubt about it.
		If you're a Mormon.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't care.
		You could be a Mooney.
		You could be a Scientologist.
		It's all the same to me, man.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, you could be born a Mormon, you know, and get locked into it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I had a neighbor who was a Mormon who was great.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Nicest guy.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Super sweet people.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're very friendly, very, you know, very warm and compassionate.
unidentified		Yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, and it's also, too, I like to say that, you know, the South, you travel down to the Southern states, and individually, they're the nicest people on the planet.
		You know, Southern hospitality is a real thing.
		But put them all in the room together, and you're talking about the biggest bunch of bigoted assholes, you know, you've ever met.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Talk about taking their guns and black men fucking their daughters.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		What?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not on my watch!
		Yeah.
		Well, I think a lot of that is just, again, fear, ignorance.
		These isolated folks that live in these small towns that are separated from the larger cities by vast distances.
		Those larger cities tend to be the centers of diversity.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're going to have ignorance and fear in a lot of those places.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, it's also fed upon by the politicians that are running for office in those very areas.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And it's fed upon by this right-wing echo chamber, which constantly keeps them fear of the external enemy, whether that's liberals, whether that's Muslims, whether it's, you know...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The echo chamber.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, communists.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But isn't Salon kind of an echo chamber to the left a little bit?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It's a very friendly audience to the right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, very friendly audience to the left.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's certain...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		But we'll see.
		You do have an echo chamber on the left.
		But in the left, echo chamber facts aren't made up.
		Whereas in that right-wing echo chamber, there's a total disregard for facts.
		Even Romney's head pollster, Neil, and I can't remember his last name, and I guess it doesn't matter, but he even said on camera, you know, facts don't matter, you know, in his campaign.
unidentified		What?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Come on.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, they can say anything.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is Romney taking another run in it?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I think there's a big wing in the establishment wing of the Republican Party that wants him to run.
		I don't think he will, but the establishment is desperate for a candidate because at the moment, Rand Paul is going to be the nomination, and he scares the life out of establishment Republicans because he's not a neocon.
		That's why Dick Cheney's in the media at the moment, trying to water down this isolationist, libertarian wing of the Republican Party, because as it stands today, he would be the nominee.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Rand Paul.
		And what scares people about Rand Paul?
		What should scare people about Rand Paul?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, what scares me?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Are you asking me?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what scares you?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		What scares me?
		Well, he's a libertarian, for one.
		I think libertarianism would only exacerbate the winner-takes-all society that we have at the moment.
		We need to be doing the opposite of that.
		Libertarianism would grant more power to the corporations in this country and less.
		What scares the establishment in the Republican Party is he's an isolationist and sort of military-industrial complex.
		And there was a great piece done recently that if Hillary's a nominee and Rand Paul's a nominee, neocons will vote for Hillary.
		You know, neocon Republicans will vote for Hillary.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Because she's more hawkish than Rand Paul is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Whoa.
		That would be crazy.
		Could you imagine Dick Cheney advising people to vote for Hillary Clinton over Rand Paul?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		He would.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Could you imagine a race of Hillary Clinton versus Rand Paul?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It would be the biggest landslide since LBJ Barry Goldwater in 64. You think Hillary would win?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I think Hillary could almost win every state.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Whoa.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Almost win every state.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What do you think would hold people back from voting for Rand Paul?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, his ideas are unproven, except for Somalia, number one.
		I think that a lot of things are going to come back to haunt him.
		He doesn't believe in the Civil Rights Act.
		He believes that private property trumps everything.
		There's a great video of him.
		He's asked, well, do you believe in the Civil Rights Act?
		Well, I don't know.
		I kind of think it was a good thing, but I also think private property owners and restaurant owners have the right not to serve.
		He didn't use the word blacks, but they have the right not to serve black people who don't want to.
		So I think he'd be a disastrous candidate.
		Barry Coldwater, the same people who voted for Barry Goldwater are the same people who vote for Rand Paul.
		And we saw what happened to Goldwater.
		That's not where America is.
		America is a center-left country, not a far-right country.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But people love his dad.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Huh?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		People love his dad.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, white, well-to-do people loved his dad.
		You know, he's a neo-confederate.
		I mean, you know, and Rand Paul is a neo-confederate.
		I mean, he's the, you know, regularly speaks at sons and confederate meetings.
		I mean, it's all about nullification, states' rights.
		What does state rights mean?
		That means these states can ban abortion, deny black people the right to attend restaurants, coloreds only.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It also means they can allow gay marriage, they can allow people to smoke marijuana, they can allow people to do a lot of things that the federal government does not allow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So it's not entirely a negative thing, like the idea of states' rights.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The non-interventionalist foreign policy.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, which is good for you.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I'm for that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think Ron Paul had some very good ideas.
		He's definitely a wacky old dude, but who's not?
		You know, how many old dudes stay alive, and especially in the world of politics, get to be that old and just don't have utter disdain for the established system?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		You know, John McCain, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, there's this whole thing that we've been doing from the beginning of time, of profiting off of sending young men to death for things that they don't understand, sending over them to fight in foreign lands for some cause that they don't know what they're doing.
		They're too young.
		They're too young to see the hustle.
		I mean, that's the oldest trick in the book, as far as, like...
		The military.
		And that was one that Ron Paul stood very firmly against.
		And he was one of the few people that was doing it, right or left.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I'm with Ron Paul and Rand Paul when it comes to military, and I'm with both of them when it comes to ending the drug war.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, thinking that Ron Paul or Rand Paul is good for America because they're anti-drug and anti-war is like thinking a Big Mac is good for you because it has lettuce and a pickle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But what is good for America, though, at this point in time?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We've clearly established that you've got massive amounts of money that are financing politics.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		What is good for America is what has already worked in the past, and what has worked in the past was FDR's New Deal, and that is socialism.
		America came out of the Gilded Age.
		We went into the biggest economic crisis America has ever seen.
		We implemented social reforms, economic reforms, political reforms, and from the end of World War II to 1980, we built the great American middle class, where we built the most prosperous middle class the world has ever seen.
		We put a man on the moon, we built the interstate highway systems, we had the GI Bill, we had free education, we had access to education, we established Medicaid with the Great Society.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Happy days, Laverne and Shirley, how good shit happened.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		My dad lived in America for 10 years during the 60s.
		His generation during that time, just the husband, just your dad worked.
		And you still had enough to afford a mortgage and have two cars.
		Now, both husband and dad and mother have to work.
		They can barely keep their head above water.
		They're saddled with debt.
		We have no way out.
		And that's the world we live in.
		We have to go back to that area, and we have to put in social, economic, and political reforms, which redistribute the wealth from the top back to the middle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Now, how would you do that?
		Say, if someone came to you, you have all these radical ideas, you've written books about it, if someone was running for president, be it Elizabeth Warren, or whoever it is that reads your stuff, What would you implement?
		I mean, how would you fix this in a reasonable way that makes sense?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, number one is the tax code.
		Because, you know, their denial of tax revenue to the federal government is extreme at the moment.
		That's why, you know, we said earlier, America doesn't have nice things is because corporations are contributing the lowest.
		Percentage of the overall revenue to the federal government.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But if you contribute more money, where does that money go?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And who gets to dictate where that money goes?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, first of all, is you're building an infrastructure.
		I mean, infrastructure is falling apart in this country.
		Spending money goes back to Keynesian economics, which has worked in the past and will work again.
		We have to build bridges.
		We have to build highway systems.
		We have to build higher-speed railways.
		That creates jobs, and that creates markets in new economies.
		We have to then build up the middle class and the working class with better labour reforms.
		We've gone from, you know, from the moment Reagan destroyed the union's world that was sacked the air traffic controllers in 1981, we've gone from America protected by collective bargaining went from something like 35% to 7% today.
		In every social democratic country like Australia and Scandinavia and Western Europe, Upwards of 85% of their populations are covered by collective bargaining.
		So the workers have a say or a shared prosperity.
		From 1954 to 1979, their productivity gains were shared equally between corporations and the working class.
		Today, only 12% of the gains are shared to the working class and middle class.
		That comes through the tax code, it comes through labor reform, access to healthcare and education and so forth.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you trust the federal government to do the appropriate thing with the new taxes?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, say if we did reform the tax code and say if we did change the contributions that corporations are forced to make, do you really trust the government as it's in place right now with all of its glorious incompetence to redistribute that money and do a good job with it?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, people will say, well, you know, government always does a shitty job.
		Corporations, 90% of corporations fail in their first five years.
		So government is not a perfect solution or a perfect be-all to end-all, but there has to be a balance where, you know, and we have that in other countries, where there's capital investment but also public investment.
		Public investment or liberalism, liberalism was never meant to be a left-wing thing.
		Liberalism was always meant to be a countervailing power to capitalism.
		Where capitalism falls short, liberalism was supposed to pick up the slack and protect the downtrodden, the people that capitalism leaves behind.
		And you need public investment to fund those initiatives.
		There's always going to be waste.
		That's just part of the part.
		For every Solyndra that you have, you're going to have Tesla.
		And people in the Republican wing like to bash government spending on the failure of Solyndra, but they also forget that government funding has made Tesla an enormous success.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that a part of what's going on now with the internet, that this access to information would also deter at least a certain percentage of waste because people would be more responsible for it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because it would be more transparent than ever before?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, the stimulus was the greatest public stimulus program in US history since FDR's New Deal.
		But it was also the most transparent spending of public spending we've ever seen.
		I mean, the federal government put up a website We've every vendor and contractor and the details of that available for anyone to see.
		I mean, the waste of that stimulus, which wasn't enough, the size of the stimulus should have been double the $800 billion that it was.
		It worked.
		It added two points to GDP, created X amount of million private sector jobs.
		It was transparent.
		I don't know how much more transparent it could be.
		You're never going to eliminate waste totally.
		But the offside to that is it's filled by the private sector.
		And the alternative is Reagan's holy trinity, you know, monopolization, deregulation, and privatization.
		And, you know, there's greater waste there and more crony capitalism than you have on the other side.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Certainly with deregulation.
		That's scary shit that people would want that.
		I think that would be a good idea.
		There's a reason why regulations are in place.
		It's just to keep them from running amok with natural human instincts of conquering.
		Natural human instincts of deception.
		You know, these are just natural things that you have to guard against with laws.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And that's the thing.
		Corporations are not concerned with the common good.
		It's just a profit motive.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a machine.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And it was Clinton who deregulated Wall Street with Glass-Steagall, and that led to the chain of events which collapsed the entire fucking universe in 2008. Dirty Clinton.
		Yeah.
		And we haven't had one except for Dodd-Frank, which is a pissy effort to regulate Wall Street.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We're back to the same place we were leading up to the days of the crash in 08. What do you think the people that thought that they should let the banks fail?
		Like that's the Peter Schiff idea.
		Quite a few people.
		Ron Paul believed that as well.
		Don't bail out the banks.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker believed the same thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What do you think about that?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, in my uninformed opinion, there's this great book called The Confidence Men.
		And it's really an insider's account of the Obama White House in the first four years.
		And obviously, as he came into office, he was dealing with the biggest economic catastrophe America's seen since the Great Depression.
		And he was listening to all the ideas going forward.
		There was Team A and Team B. Team B was the likes of Larry Summers and Timothy Geithner and Paul Rubin, who was a Clintonite.
		And Team A was Paul Volcker and so forth.
		Paul Volcker and Team A believed in letting him fail, totally get rid of this debt leverage vehicles that have created this fictitious wealth and fictitious products.
		In the end, Obama went with Team B to Larry Summers, who were there to protect the status quo of Wall Street.
		And you have these Wall Street bankers like the CEO of Bank of America saying, thank God Team B was chosen.
		We'd never be back to where we were.
		If we had to let Wall Street fail, I don't know enough to be able to give a quantified opinion on what...
		Like the arguments that you hear, well, we had to, you know, prop them up to avoid an even bigger catastrophe seem valid as well.
		So, you know, I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you look at the future of this country and think it's going to work out?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Or do you look at it and say, I'm going back to Australia in about 10 years when the shit hits the fan?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I think it's almost too late.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Too late?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think where we are today, this is what America is going to look like.
		Have you seen the movie Elysium with Matt Damon?
		That's what America's going to look like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So everyone is going to live in a gated community in space?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		So the rich people will retire behind gated communities.
		They'll be able to afford goods and services, which the rest can't afford.
		And the rest of America is going to live in a crime-riddled society with no public infrastructure and services, which the rich will have.
		There'll be no middle class.
		Which is what third-world countries look like.
		A really rich top and a really poor bottom and nothing in the middle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But you're fond of statistics.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Don't we have lower crime, lower murder rates than ever before?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Murder rates are falling from the height of the 1980s.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Except Chicago.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they love the shit people at the moment.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Chicago's fucking up the whole curve.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Obama's town, goddammit.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Son of a bitch.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		People in Chicago, man, don't like Obama.
		It's amazing.
		Some black woman in Chicago was in the news the other day saying he's the worst president we've ever had.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A black woman.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, worse than Bush.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Stepping up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Worse than Bush.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know about all that, but...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, I mean...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If you're a whistleblower, he's the worst.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		If you're Snowden, he's the worst.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But when you see those statistics, those numbers, what makes you think that it's going to get way worse?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, crime...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Have you read Freakonomics?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		I mean, it's a great book.
		Freakonomics makes a, you know, correlation doesn't prove causation, but they make a very strong argument that the only reason that violent crime has fallen in this country is because of Roe v.
		Wade.
		Roe v.
		Wade, abortion, you know, basically destroyed a whole generation of potential criminals.
		You know, because of poor communities, you know, don't have access to abortion.
		That's so crazy.
		I mean, yeah, it's got racist underpinnings, that finding.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		In a deep, deep way.
		That's so fucking harsh to get behind.
		But when you look at it scientifically, if you have just data to analyze, it's really, yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		But violence is one aspect.
		What future is there in America where education becomes unaffordable, where those who graduate are saddled with debt that they can never get out of, and where housing becomes unaffordable, and where there's no well-paying jobs, where you have stagnant wages, where you have a country where income has been totally redistributed to the world, where the share of income is...
		The top 1% used to get 12% of the income, now the top 1% gets something like...
		37% of the income in this country, you know, you're creating this massive underclass with no way out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So you're saying we need more abortions?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'm hearing.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, some people ask me if I'm, you know, they obviously know I'm liberal.
		They ask me if I'm pro-choice, and they say, no, I'm not pro-choice, I'm pro-abortion.
		There's a big difference.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I wish it didn't involve killing a fetus.
		The reality of what an abortion is is something that people don't want to discuss.
		I've had these conversations with people who are liberal, and just when you talk about it flat, objectively, no ideology attached, what is going on?
		Well, there's a person that's growing in a body and we snuff it out.
		And at what point in time is it okay to snuff it out?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I hear you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it is that.
		That's what it is.
		I mean, is it okay a week in?
		Yeah, it's a bunch of cells.
		Is it okay six weeks in?
		Things start getting squirrely.
		They start getting squirrely when you see fingers.
		You start seeing a head and little feet.
		It starts having a heartbeat.
		When is it a person?
		It's only a person when it's born.
		Really?
		So a nine-month-old baby that hasn't been born yet, you can reach in and suck that baby out with a vacuum, and that's groovy?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Man, when is it?
		When it's viable outside the womb?
		I mean, it's very...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you throw in, is it viable?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And then you add in the rape and the incest part to the equation as well.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, sure.
		And isn't it one of those things, like many things in this world, where there isn't a clean cut black or white?
		There are many, many shades of grey.
unidentified		I agree.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I'm glib and I joke about my pro-abortion comment.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		How dare you?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How dare you joke about something so important?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's a very emotionally contentious minefield riddled issue.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's also one that women, rightly so, take umbrage with men being able to decide what they can and can't do with their body.
		I'm not trying to decide, and I most certainly am pro-choice as far as how I vote, but when I look at the reality of what an abortion is, It disturbs me that because of ideology and because of the stance that they take left or right, that people will argue against the reality of what an abortion is.
		And I think when you do that, you do a disservice to the topic.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a tricky situation.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're killing babies.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It is.
		I mean, abortion is a tragedy no matter which way you cut it.
		And then you then have to deal sensibly with the tragedy that it is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Unless you had a one-night stand with a crazy bitch and she says, don't worry, I'm getting an abortion.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then it's...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Amanda, if you're listening, don't call me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Time to party.
		Yeah.
		I wish there was a better way, you know?
		I wish there was a way that you could immediately, you know, there was really, I have a joke about this, that it should be a better way to make people than sex.
		I mean, at one point in time, maybe that's what the aliens are all about.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because when you see the aliens, they're always sexless.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They always have these smooth bodies and they have no muscles because they use their brains to move things around.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They probably got to a certain point in time and they realized, listen, we're not going to evolve unless we get rid of these animal instincts to breed and conquer and dominate.
		And the only way we're going to move to this really utopian society concept that everybody has, you know, the gradations, the steps away from being an animal, from being a violent predator to being some enlightened being.
		Somewhere along the line, you're going to have to get rid of sex.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can ejaculate into a beaker, but I mean, I don't mean to brag.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It's really hard to get it in there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying reproduce through genetic manipulation, reproduce through cloning.
		I mean, we're already doing that.
		If we could all become eunuchs, I think the world would be a better place.
		I'm not saying that sex is bad.
		Sex is awesome.
		The sexual differences between men and women are a fascinating dynamic that I think fuels passion and poetry and light.
		Not poetry.
		I never fucking read poetry.
		I don't know what I'm talking about.
		Art.
		There's a lot of good to that struggle.
		There's a lot of great things that come out of struggle.
		But there's also the reality that if you had to extrapolate from here forth, from where we are to what we used to be, if you believe in evolution, if you're one of them, if you want to go back to the times where we were fucking living in caves and fighting off T-Rex or whatever the hell was going on, and extrapolate that a thousand years in the future, ten thousand years in the future, at some point in time, the elimination of sexual urges might be imperative.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, that's our most base urge.
		And, you know, David Suzuki, the environmentalist, said it best.
		He said, as advances we become technologically.
		And if you look at the infant, we created this information superhighway.
		And we thought this was going to change the world and change the universe.
		Yet, 85% of the content in there is porn.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is it 85?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is it that high?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I might have made another statistic up, but it's high.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think it's pretty high.
		Yeah.
		We've looked at it before.
		I think there's varying numbers.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I heard that the number was, I think it was 65%.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I think I might have added to it for greater emphasis.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I thought it was 37. Let's find out right now.
		What percentage of the internet is porn?
		Here we go.
		What are you going to say?
		60?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I'll go 60%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		What of the internet?
		Okay, let's find out here.
		How much of the internet is actually porn on Forbes?
		It says, don't make me click some shit to continue to the next site.
		Goddammit.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Probably a link to RedTube.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, probably.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		YouPorn.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Not that I know what that is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a bad place.
		It says, okay, in 2010, 13% of web searches were for erotic content.
		Only 4% of the top million websites.
		Huh.
		So 4%, but there was a volume.
		They're fucking around with numbers here.
		Give me the volume, bitches.
		They're not giving me the volume right off the bat.
		That's not this one.
		Forbes is hiding information.
		Goddamn elitists.
		Web porn.
		Just how much is there?
		37%.
		I was right.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		37%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		That's what it is.
		37%.
		That was the number.
unidentified		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		37% of the internet is made of pornographic material.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Man.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Still high.
		That's remarkable.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Pretty high.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Nutty.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		According to estimates from Scandinavian research, 90% of all the data the human race has ever produced has been generated in the past two years.
unidentified		Whoa.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's nuts.
		That is fucking bananas.
		That's crazier than porn.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I can't jerk off to that one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		90% of the data the human race has ever produced has been generated in the past two years.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How much of that is just bullshit on Twitter and Pinterest?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I remember reading something like that.
		Something like 80% of man's knowledge.
		Everything that man knows has been acquired since 1969, the year we landed on the moon.
		How could that be possible?
		That's always thrown about.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How could that be possible when the Bible is 2,000 years old?
		You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, son.
		That's weird.
		Everything we know is from 1969 Ford?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 80-odd percent.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But it's sort of been...
		Yeah, it must be 80-odd percent.
		That makes sense, because everything is built upon...
		Yeah.
		You needed the infrastructure of...
		You needed the people to figure out the combustion engine for them to figure out the electric car.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		It was only 100 years before that we thought if someone had the flu, it meant they were demonically possessed.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		The numbers are pretty crazy when you look at 90% of all the data over two years.
		What is it going to be two years from now?
		Then when you look at that exponential increase in technology, I'm hopeful.
		I don't think that your vision of Elysium is going to come to pass.
		But I'm an optimist.
		Are you an optimist or are you a pessimist?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		If you ask friends, I'm a glass half full kind of guy.
		And I mean, I have the advantage of being here.
		And I know when things really do it, get to the shit.
		I just get in planning to go back to Australia.
		Sure.
		Where we have universal health care and pensions and social security.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's why you can't be president, son of a bitch.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I'm pessimistic until the liberal class in this country becomes a force again, because there is no countervailing power to capital in this country at the moment.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Until the liberal class becomes a force again.
		What are the detriments, though, of having liberals in control?
		A bunch of pussies, that's what the detriments are.
		The fucking Al-Qaeda's gonna come over here and kick our ass.
		Bunch of pantyweights running this land.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Clinton loved blowing shit up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did he, though?
		He only blew shit up when he got caught getting blowjobs.
		That's what he really liked, blowing shit up.
		Remember that?
		Son of a bitch.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		God, of all the women he could have had.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he probably had a lot of them.
		We found out about a mouthy fat girl.
		In more ways than one.
		I mean, didn't he supposedly bang Elizabeth Hurley?
		Do you see all those photographs that came out recently?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there's one look of him and her looking at each other.
		You know they fucked.
		You just know they fucked.
		But she's a good girl.
		She'll keep a secret.
		I love her.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, she's actually engaged to one of Australia's greatest cricketers ever.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Really?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Shane Warne.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How old is she now?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to guess she's early 40s.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hanging in there, huh?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Barely.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Tooth and claw.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I'd do her.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Would you really?
		How dare you?
		You would do that Mormon broad too.
		You're just horny, man.
		God damn it.
		What are the negative aspects of liberals taking over?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Nothing is the solution.
		There's no one-size-fits-all, obviously.
		I think that countries struggle with trial and error.
		I think that what's happening in Australia and Germany is not pure liberal societies at all.
		It's a balancing act, always, between Liberalism and capitalism.
		And I think there's countries that juggle the two balls better.
		At the moment, it's so lopsided in the favour of capital.
		Capital trumps politics.
		It all started in this country, not to get too historical, but...
		Justice Powell wrote a memo when Nixon was in the White House and said that the sleeping giant in American politics is the CEO of America.
		And from that point on, that memo turned into the greatest migration from Wall Street to Washington.
		And today you have something like 50-odd thousand lobbyists in Washington who have the years of politicians.
		So I think we're good to go.
		Well, what fucked up when FDR was in power for all those years?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that was so long ago.
		There's a different world.
		That's like talking about a culture that's, you know, Aboriginal culture that had some sort of collective government and comparing it to ours.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's so different.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Some of my friends are Aboriginals.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
		Along with your gay friends, your Christian friends.
		What would be the negative?
		I mean, would there be any negative, any weakening of this great nation by having a real liberal idealist?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you've got to give it a go, don't you?
unidentified		Do you?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		You've got to go back to what's worked.
		And liberalism has worked.
		It's a proven success.
		You know, free market capitalism hasn't worked in this country.
		We know a trickle-down economics hasn't worked.
		Again, Kansas, if the need...
		George Bush came into power.
		Bill Clinton raised taxes on the rich three times, created 23 million jobs.
		George Bush, you know, came into power, put in the biggest tax cuts on the wealthy since World War II, and had a net loss of one-man jobs, not including, even if taking out the years of the Great Recession and the Great Crash out of consideration.
		We see it happening in Kansas.
		That free market capitalism, trickle-down economics mantra just has been of abject value wherever it's been tried.
		So, is liberalism going to be the perfect answer?
		No, but there has to be some measure where the corporate state is put in control.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But if you did that, liberalism gets into power and then this sort of anti-war sentiment gets firmly put into place.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What do you do about the vacuum that's created in these 100 different countries where we have military presence?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		FDR was a liberal and we went into World War II. Right, but there was a different world, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, wasn't it a different world?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, there was no terrorists.
		There was clear enemies.
		We were after the Nazis.
		It was sort of a different time.
		Well, more clearly defined...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		The Middle East, there's no problem in the Middle East that's going to be solved with military intervention.
		I mean, Iraq is purely a political situation.
		You're not going to quell the violence by putting...
		Look, we couldn't stop an insurgency in Iraq when we had 150,000 troops on the ground.
		Now we're sending 800 military advisors.
		What the fuck is that going to do?
		So, you know, Syria, you're not going to stop it unless, you know, these borders are redrawn.
		So if isolation is, you could argue, well, how's isolation going to hurt when there is no military solution to these geopolitical problems?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the idea of the military solution is the suppression.
		If we're not solving it, at least we're suppressing the power from gathering steam and forcing, you know, some situation where they could collectively form some large threatening group.
		We're dissipating that in some sense by our military presence in these countries.
		Our foot on their neck is what's keeping them from growing large.
		Fighting over there, so we don't have to fight over here, so we're going to have freedom over here.
		I mean, that's the logic behind it, right?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		But we couldn't do with 150,000 troops.
		So how many troops do you want to keep in these countries for how long?
		Does it become like an endless occupation in every hotspot around the world?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, I don't think that's a good idea, but it seems to be what it is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that seems to be what we're doing.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I think Obama's...
		I mean, you look at all the geopolitical issues which have come up in the last few years, everything from Syria to Libya to Russia to now Iraq.
		The Republicans have pleaded Obama to get military involved in all four of his situations.
		Three of those situations aren't even in the news anymore, and we would have had a military force there.
		So, you know, I think the Obama doctrine, for lack of...
		I know he doesn't like calling Obama doctrine.
		It's working.
		It's, you know...
		Stand on the sidelines.
		Use proxies.
		Don't put boots on the ground.
		Look for political avenues, whether it's through sanctions or pressure on currencies and so forth.
		These things work.
		The reason Russia is withdrawing from there The eastern borders of Ukraine is because these sanctions have crippled the oligarchs in Russia, and they're, in turn, putting pressure on Putin to withdraw.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Has it really worked?
		There's a lot of people that argue it hasn't, and that Obama's policies have been disastrous.
		I mean, there was an article in Politico recently, I don't know if you read it, it was the man who broke the Middle East.
		It was this figure, this picture of a pensive Obama, like, looking old as fuck.
		But if anybody's hit the wall, like, aged while they've been in office, that poor bastard, Who knows what kind of pressure and stress they must be under to be in that position?
		I mean, I can't even imagine why anybody would want that.
		But this guy, Elliott Abrams, wrote this article about the policies and what it's done to the Middle East and how fucked up things are now.
		A lot of people don't think that the policies work, and they think that they've created more problems than they've solved.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, I mean, how's it...
		I mean, we broke Iraq.
		I mean, the Republicans like to be revisionist at the moment and say that things were all rosy when we withdrew in 2008, or is it 09?
		There was a civil war raging there still.
		You know, last year there was an, on average, 800 to 1,000 Iraqis killed in terrorist attacks each month in that place.
		The civil war has been raging.
		Putting military intervention doesn't solve that.
		We have to either put pressure on the Iraqi government or Maliki to be more inclusive.
		I mean, we fucked the pooch when the day...
		You know, I got friends who worked as security contractors, friends who worked for Global Corp who were in charge of monitoring the green zone during the early days of the occupation in Iraq.
		And they said, after the sidearm statue fell in Baghdad, you could walk freely without a sidearm even anywhere in Baghdad in those early days.
		But the minute that Bremner and co.
		debathicised or, you know, sacked the bathers out of the police force and the military, that created a civil war from that point on.
		Now, we put Maliki in power, or we endorse Maliki in power, and he's just perpetuated that policy of, you know, she is only, and soon he's become the underclass.
		So, it doesn't matter how many people we put there, it's not going to solve the problem.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What solves the problem?
		How do we fix the world, dude?
		You know, one of the problems with these conversations, I love these conversations, but I also hate them.
		I love them because they're fascinating, they're stimulating, but...
		At a certain point in time, we have them and I go, we're not getting anything done here.
		Nothing's changing.
		We're just mentally masturbating and then we leave and it all stays the same.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And these intellectual conversations always end up circular like that.
		I mean, if you're going to ask me to be a prick for a minute, I would say the solution is we put in another heavy autocratic regime that suppresses large segments of the population.
		Now, Muslims are going to be sending me death threats now.
		But that's what America has done.
		If you want peace in the Middle East, then we need to prop up autocratic regimes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But why is the Middle East different than any other part of the world?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Because they're not countries in the way that we think of them as countries.
		These are artificial countries.
		It's the same reason that Yugoslavia blew up.
		Because we told the Bosnians and the Croatians and the Serbs here, Here's your country, pretend to like each other, get along in governance as a single country, but they're different people.
		Iraq is three different countries under one, but we're telling them with British borders to get along nicely and to treat each other equally under a democratic government, when in these countries I don't even know what democracy is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Can they be taught?
		I mean, wasn't Iraq a real country at one point in time?
		I mean, there's some that argue that Baghdad hasn't been the same since Genghis Khan invaded in the 1200s.
		That that fucked up.
		I mean, they killed everybody in Baghdad in like 1220 or whatever it was.
		And that the country's literally never recovered.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, I mean, if you want to end violence here, you just draw a big circle and say, that's Shia-stan, and you draw another big circle and you say, that's Sunni-stan now.
		Get in your corners and stay the fuck there, and that's the end of it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But then they're going to say, you know, I like it over there.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and then the Saudis are going to go, what?
		We've got so much money and wealth, we don't want to share it with anyone else.
		And the Iranians are going to go, well, we have so much money and wealth, we're not going to share it with these poor Shia populations like Syria and, you know, in the south of Iraq.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, isn't that going to be just another Israel-Palestine type situation?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Living right next door to people you hate that look exactly like you?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, bottom line, that region is fucked.
		Maybe we should just nuke the whole region and put a massive Burger King there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I would go with in and out, but I see what you're saying.
		Fuck, man.
		That's the problem with these conversations.
		They always hit this point where you go, okay, well, what?
		What can be done?
		And the answer is almost always, there's no answer.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the only answer is us to stay the fuck out of there and just put, you know, our ally there is one of the most oppressive autocratic regimes in the world, Saudi Arabia.
		You know, if we don't support them, the price of oil will have oil shock.
		The American economy will be doomed even more.
		I mean, we're sitting on such a precipice of potential disaster, it's ridiculous.
		If the price of oil skyrockets, Japan is fucked.
		Japan is so dependent on us, America, keeping the price of oil down, because they have no oil of their own.
		I mean, oil goes skirting through the roof.
		I mean, not only are we going to have problems in the Middle East, we're going to have a worldwide catastrophe.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's why we need fracking.
		And you need to support fracking.
		All these assholes that are worried about their wells getting poisoned.
		You go to Walmart, you buy your water like everybody else.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Fuck the water.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you get any hope at all when you see a situation like what happened with Syria, where the United States at a press conference, Obama got on television, military...
		Action against Syria was inevitable.
		Everybody just said, fuck this.
		The whole country, collectively, right and left, was like, get the fuck out of here with this.
		And then it went away.
		It went away.
		I mean, do you remember that speech?
		That speech seemed like we were on the verge of war.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		The red line speech?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And then what?
		Where's the war?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Short attention spans.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, not just short attention spans, but the government recognized that there was a huge resistance.
		And that might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
		That might give birth to not just a Occupy Wall Street, but something global.
		Something where people really did step in and say, you guys are fucking crazy.
		And you guys are making the whole world a dangerous, scary place.
		And we're not buying it anymore.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and also again, Assad is big of a prick of ears.
		Well, the alternative could be worse.
		I mean, you've got foreign fighters, Islamist groups that want to turn Syria into a theocracy.
		At least Assad, as bad as he is, is a secularist.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, wasn't Saddam Hussein a secularist?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Saddam Hussein was a secularist.
		Baghdad, Iraqi, except for, you know, maybe a few excursions into Kurdistan, you know, kind of kept Iraq in check.
		Oh, my God, I'm in trouble.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're in big trouble.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What about the people that lived there and had to deal with those evil fucking serial killer sons?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, you've got deaf squads, you know, going door to door again now, knocking on doors in the Sunni neighborhoods, dragging people on the street and executing them right now.
		I mean...
		Unless you give these separate sects of Islam their own countries, unless they can be formed, you're never going to solve the problem.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you will.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Get rid of religion?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Mushrooms.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Get these motherfuckers the same shit they were eating when they brought the sacred mushroom in the cross.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Just airdrop MDMA. Yeah, spray it on them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what we need, for real?
		We have such a fast food culture, microwave, instant download society.
		We need a psychedelic taser.
		We just instantaneously get enlightened.
		We don't have time for you to take a mushroom and be reasonable for an hour and 20 minutes and then get the facts and then sort of contain it.
		We need to just taser people.
		It's like, oh, I was being a dick.
		Just zap them.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I'm trademarking it the minute I get out of here.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Psychedelic taser?
		You can.
		I already said it online.
		It's just live, man.
		Just like Laguna Beach.
		The shit is live.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		What are you talking about?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what you're talking about.
		Psychedelic tasers.
		We need to go over there and just tase the shit out of everybody with some sort of a DMT taser.
		Just a quick introduction to God.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Like those Agent Orange airplanes over Vietnam.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just fill the skies with enlightenment.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		They did that in Laguna Beach, just finished writing a great book, The Brotherhood of Eternal Love, and how Laguna Beach was the, not that I live there, but that was the center point for all the best Afghan hash into America.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Really?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and they had this big concert, I think it was in 67, out in the canyon of Laguna Beach, I don't know where that is, but...
		They dropped this cargo plane, flew over this crowd, 20,000 people, you know, it's like a Grateful Dead concert, and dropped acid all over the crowd, and it became like a five-day concert.
		I never knew this history of the city I don't live in.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what?
		That was back when people were experiencing this new psychedelic freedom.
		The word hash is such a strange word, too, because...
		Hash in a lot of places gets considered as being much more illegal than marijuana.
		In a lot of countries, in fact, you can get put to death for hash.
unidentified		But all it is is THC. It's like cocaine crack.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Sort of, but not in the effects.
		Have you ever smoked hash?
		It's just a...
		It's just a pure version of THC. It's just more potent, but it's very similar in the ways to smoking marijuana.
		It's just more powerful.
		That's all it is.
		It's not like heroin.
		It's not crystal meth or anything crazy.
		It's just hash.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I've got an 18-year-old son and, you know, obviously him growing up in Indonesia, which has the lowest tolerance of drug use probably anywhere in the world.
		He's got a friend, actually, who went to jail for, you know, six months.
		He was 16 at the time for just having one joint.
		You can have one joint.
		You can be in jail for 10 years if you're an adult.
		And so all his friends in Indonesia, he went out and got his medical marijuana card.
		You know, one of us, the green doctor in Venice Beach, got his card and he puts it on Facebook and...
		He says, I get home delivery with my own weed.
		He said, God bless America.
		So he sees optimism here.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What were you doing in Indonesia?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I only meant to live there for a year.
		And then when you turn into 10 years, I had a business in Australia, which I sold.
		I wanted to go to Indonesia.
		I had a bar there at one stage.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You ran a brothel.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You ran a goddamn brothel in Indonesia.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I didn't want to say that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A hash bar.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		So yeah, and then I started writing full-time when I was in Indonesia.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So you're a real international traveler.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You've seen it from all around.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, kind of.
		Well, what propelled me into writing about religion was I sort of witnessed the 05 terrorist attack in Bali.
		Twin suicide bombs on Jim Brown Beach.
		We were right there that night.
		And that made me, from a journalistic point of view, really wanted to delve into what's in these religious texts, which would make somebody strap C4 to themselves and blow themselves a smithereen in front of a crowded...
		Well, within a crowded restaurant, taking women and children with them.
		So...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you just fucking put a somber note to the end of this podcast.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		You want to talk about weight again?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it really is all about the mechanisms of the human mind, right?
		That ideologies can allow people or give people the motivation to do some crazy shit.
		Including things of their own selves, and not just ideologies that are accepted, established ideologies like Islam or Christianity, but like those Heaven's Gate guys who cut their balls off and fucking wore purple Nikes and waited for the spaceship behind the comet.
		There's something about the human mind that is so easily influenced by An alpha, or an idea, or a message from a higher power, whatever it is.
		There's something about the human mind that's so easily influenced.
		It's truly a dangerous but malleable thing.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		We want to believe in something higher than ourselves.
		You know, that's human proclivity.
		We want that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But why is that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is there something higher than ourselves that we just haven't accessed yet?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think our highest sense of consciousness, as you said before, our ego can't let go of the fact that once we're dead, we're dead.
		I don't think our ego can accept the fact that we're really nothing more than a virus.
		We're a bacteria that occupies the planet.
		People who do believe, you know, I'm not an evangelical atheist by any means, and there's a lot of those guys, but I'm not.
		But I always like, if I'm going to give some sort of literature other than my own books to someone who's religious, it's Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Tot.
		I mean, that really puts into perspective, you know, the meaningless of the human existence.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever been to the Keck Observatory in the Big Island?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, I haven't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I just got back.
		I've been there once before.
		The time I went before was way better because this time I went during the supermoon, and the moon was so big you couldn't see jack shit.
		You just saw the moon.
		You didn't see any stars.
		But the last time I went, the moon was dark.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you see the entire cosmos.
		Oh, wow.
		It's so fascinating because...
		That would be amazing.
		It's unbelievably spectacular.
		And also, like, it's very, that word life-changing gets used a lot for experiences that people have.
		But my experience, the first time I went, which is, I guess, about nine years ago, my first time going up there was truly life-changing.
		Like, I looked up there and I saw the stars and I realized, like, we're on a plane.
		We're on a planet.
		We're flying around in space.
		We're just so preoccupied with our own bullshit that we forget that we're on this planet.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And how small we are.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I think if we could see the stars on a daily basis, I think we would be a different attitude.
		Slowly but surely, I think people would establish a different attitude.
		Just the sheer humility that comes with looking at the stars, just gazing up at that thing.
		You know, and just, if you want to look for a greater power, you want to look for a greater thing than us, just the vastness of the infinity that you're looking at is enough.
		Because when it's just black, it's too easy to ignore.
		You look up, you see a couple dots, yeah, well the moon's out tonight.
		You know, you get back to your house and you watch fucking Cardiacians and fall asleep with your socks on like a fucking idiot.
		I mean, it's too easy to do that.
		It's too easy to fall into these traps.
		I think people that are looking for something larger than life itself, it's right above us.
		We're in it.
		It's not even above us.
		It's around us.
		We're floating in it.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And it's humbling.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, it makes your earthly worries seem insignificant and puts things in perspective, I think.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was the Reagan speech.
		Remember that Reagan speech?
		We talked about how quickly we would put our differences aside if we were being faced with a threat from another planet.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Remember?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Boy, the fucking UFO nuts love that.
		Those UFO nutters, they cling to that one speech by this crazy old man who's probably suffering from dementia.
		Which he was.
		Was he, though?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		In the end he was.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		In the end he was, but remember when those Iran-Contra trials were going on and they asked him, yeah, like, did you really sell arms to Iran?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he was like, I don't remember.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't recall.
		Remember that?
		That was what he said, I do not recall.
		And they allowed him to get away with it because he was an old man.
		That was the strategy.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, his son, Ronald Reagan, same name, in his book about his dad, he said, yeah, in the last two years, he was in full mode dementia.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Probably the CIA. The CIA dosed him up with some crazy shit to keep him stupid so he couldn't tell.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		He just started a new conspiracy website somewhere.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Probably.
		His son's gay, too, right?
		He's like a ballet dancer.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's like a liberal talk show host and stuff, like completely rebelled.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		Although there's two sons.
		There's one who's a liberal one who's on the talk show, and the other one is not.
		He's a right-wing loon.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the other one that didn't...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The right-wing loon, though, didn't know his dad very well, right?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, that's correct.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What a mess.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Trying to fucking recapture the old glory.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's so weird when I see people fall in love with the idea of what Ronald Reagan was.
		They reminisce about the Reagan administration and what the great President Reagan was.
		I've had these conversations with people.
		I'm like, what the fuck are you even talking about, man?
		Are you doing a Disney movie of Ronald Reagan?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		The mythology is incredible.
		I mean, he didn't lower taxes on the middle class or the poor or anything like that.
		He only raised taxes on the wealthy and sent the budget, you know, blew out the budget the next year and put the economy into a recession.
		And then had to raise taxes something like four or five times after that.
		So the whole myth of him being a tax cutter and a job creator and so forth, you know, it's all steeped in mythology.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And the big one, of course, his introduction to the political world of the religious right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was the big one.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, if it wasn't for Jerry Falwell's moral majority, he would never have been president.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		The Christian rights webbed him into power.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jerry motherfucking Falwell.
		Isn't that crazy?
		But wasn't it like Al Capone that made...
		Who was it that made JFK president?
		It was also the Chicago mob.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it was the Frank Sinatra connection.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Mickey Scarfa, whoever the fuck it was.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in Chicago.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		That apparently wreaked some ballots in the south of Chicago.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We only love people when they're dead.
		We really do.
		We celebrate them when they're no longer with us.
		That's it.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		America.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's America, fuck yeah.
		When Jimmy Carter dies, he's going to be a goddamn saint.
		Right now he gets maligned, misunderstood.
		He's probably, in my opinion, the most philosophical and the most interesting former president ever.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Well, here's something interesting.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Six months after Jerry Falwell was out of power, his approval rating was 64% roughly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You mean Ronald Reagan?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, no, Jerry Falwell.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jerry Falwell was out of power.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Jimmy Carter.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Did I say Jerry Falwell?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you did.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		What did you put in my coffee?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I had to dose you up to get the most out of you.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Jimmy Carter's approval rating six months out of office was something like 64%.
		Ronald Reagan's approval rating six months out of office was something like 42%.
		Now, polls aren't everything, but they take a snapshot in time of the political wins.
		Reagan wasn't a popular president when he left office.
		It was only much later.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Much later.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Decades later.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Decades later.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		After two administrations.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And look what's happening to Bush now.
		Revisionism is glossing over or trying to tarnish the turd that was Bush's legacy now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Or the original Bush, which has completely been glossed over.
		Herbert Walker Bush?
		You never hear a negative thought about that guy.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No, he's a saint now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the fucking guy was the head of the CIA. Yeah, yeah.
		Jesus Christ, we're weird.
		We're weird when we do that.
		I've had conversations with people about Carter, the weakest president ever, and this and that.
		I'm like, oh, fucking stop.
		You ever listen to the guy talk?
		He's a very philosophical, introspective guy.
		Probably one of the most open, honest, introspective guys we've ever had as a president.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		But Americans are hostile to intellectuals.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		They like Americans to act on raw emotion and anger and fury.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Can't we have both?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Can't we have both?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I think foreign policy-wise, Obama has tried to be circumspective and to think with clarity before he acts.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but this whole NSA thing will be his legacy.
		The Edward Snowden thing will be his legacy.
		When you look at the Hope and Change website that they had in place before when Obama was running for president and his...
		Established position of assisting whistleblowers who are exposing crimes.
		And then you look at what he's become.
		You look at what his legacy is.
		That's really...
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		And I often say when people ask in interviews or so forth, how do you think Obama will be remembered as a president?
		I always say, he'll just be remembered as slightly better than the alternative.
		That's how his presidency will be remembered.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And with that, we're out of time.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was an awesome three hours, man.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		What's that three hours?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fucking flew by.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Wow, that's incredible.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's how it works over here.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		We're going out right into peak hour traffic.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We dose you up and we send you away.
		I don't think we got anything covered.
		I don't think we figured anything out.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		No solutions.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But it was a lot of fun.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, man.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		I really appreciate it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for having me on.
		Thank you.
		Thank you for having me.
		And please, go buy his books.
		They're very highly rated, and you can check them out on his website.
		You can check them out on Amazon.
		If you go to CJ Werleman, that's W-E-R-L-E-M-A-N on Twitter.
		If you go to his Twitter link, there's a link to his Amazon page.
		And that Amazon page has Crucifying America on it.
		It also has Atheists Can't Be Republicans.
		God hates you.
		Hate him back.
		Jesus lied.
		He was only human.
		All sorts of things to piss off anyone religious in your family.
		Send it to him for Christmas, Hanukkah, your birthday.
		Send people things for your birthday.
		Say happy birthday to me.
		Go fuck yourself.
		Here's a book.
		Read it.
		It's by C.J. Worleman.
		Do you have a website too?
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		C.J. Worleman.com.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Really appreciate it.
unidentified		It was a lot of fun.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Great chat.
cj werleman ▲ ● ▼		Thanks, mate.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And thanks to our sponsors.
		Thank you to LegalZoom.com.
		Go to LegalZoom.com and use the code word ROGAN in the referral box at checkout for savings.
		And thanks also to Stamps.com.
		Stamps.com.
		Use the code word JRE. When you click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, type in JRE and get your $110 bonus offer.
		Thanks also to Onnit.com.
		Go to O-N-N-I-T. Use the code word ROGAN and save 10% off any and all supplements.
		We'll be back in a little bit with the Fight Companion podcast that will air live that coincides with the Fox Sports 1 broadcast which is at 7 o'clock tonight.
		So, until then, much love.
		Big kiss.
		See you soon.

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