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Feb. 8, 2014 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:57:00
Joe Rogan Experience #451 - Aubrey Marcus
Participants
Main voices
a
aubrey marcus
55:06
j
joe rogan
01:55:58
Appearances
s
steve cohen
03:15
Clips
j
jamie vernon
00:12
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Speaker Time Text
joe rogan
Did we laugh?
Did I say moral technique on the air?
unidentified
Maybe.
joe rogan
Good.
I said good things.
I love that dude.
He'll be here on Monday.
This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast is brought to you by Ting.
Now, if you've seen the Ting news recently, let me see, Ting dropped their rates to celebrate.
They dropped their prices to celebrate two years.
They cut their rates in half.
Let me see exactly what they did.
They slash their prices permanently.
They're permanently slashing prices to celebrate their second birthday.
I fucking love shit like that.
When you don't have to do stuff like that and you do it just because you want people to feel good about your company.
What I enjoy the most about Ting is the feedback.
The feedback that we get from people that have used it.
It's all positive.
I haven't had one person say, eh, I did it, but I didn't really save that much money.
According to 98% of people saved money.
Let's see what exactly they did.
I'm trying to find the news.
It just says drops prices.
Google it.
I don't know.
I shouldn't tell you to Google it.
I should have this news.
But I don't.
It didn't come.
I had to find it online.
It didn't come as a part of the ad thing.
Anyway.
They dropped their prices.
A lot.
So, since I can't find the news that quickly, just accept that.
Permanently.
Permanently drop the prices.
Which is a fucking tricky thing to say.
You permanently drop the prices.
Permanently?
What about a hundred fucking thousand years from now, dude?
How much is that shit going to cost then?
People got to be careful.
Because the world will still be around, maybe.
That's what everybody's planning for the apocalypse.
What if that motherfucker never comes?
What if it never comes and you stay alive?
Then what, bitch?
Huh?
Then what?
Anyway, this episode brought to you by Ting.
And Ting, what they are, is a mobile company that uses Sprint's backbone.
They buy time on Sprint, rent it out to you.
But they do it in a way that most cell phone companies don't.
Like, they don't have any contracts.
They don't have any bullshit.
They don't have any early termination fees.
They're truly and completely contract-free.
And they sell the best Android phones in the world.
I switched to Android and I'm very happy with it.
And I also, I'm even more happier because once we had Andreas Antonopoulos on the podcast the other day talking to us about Bitcoin, he was talking about how the Apple app for Bitcoin is not very good.
Then Apple pulled it.
They actually pulled the fucking app.
Did they give a reason for why they pulled it?
unidentified
I think so.
joe rogan
It's gross.
Because 120,000 people had already downloaded that Bitcoin app and they were using it.
And Apple just decided, for whatever fucking reason, that they're not going to let you download it anymore.
I think that's gross.
I mean, if you have something that's as...
Mainstream as Bitcoin.
I mean, I wouldn't say Bitcoin's mainstream, but when you get to be 120,000 downloads, that's pretty significant and growing.
It's clearly growing.
I mean, every day I see in the news things about Bitcoin, different companies accepting Bitcoin, Vegas casinos accepting Bitcoin.
And so for Apple to step in with no explanation, unless there's an explanation, like they don't like the software, it has vulnerability, they should have to tell you that.
But if you just pull it and don't say a word, that smacks of censorship to me.
That sounds gross.
I don't know what's going on, but more and more I lean towards Android.
And I just think there's a billion fucking people that are using cell phones, probably more in the world.
And something like 80% of them are on the Android platform now.
Something like 80-something percent smart.
Let me find that out for sure.
How many people use Android?
jamie vernon
Apple dropped it for an unresolved issue.
joe rogan
What does that mean?
That doesn't mean anything.
You didn't say a word.
You can't say that.
We dropped it for an unresolved issue.
Oh, okay.
What does that mean?
You want to be king of the world and it didn't work out yet?
The fuck did you do, huh?
You sons of bitches.
Whatever.
Whatever the numbers are, who gives a shit?
It's a very high number of people that are using Android.
It depends on where you're at.
Worldwide, it's like 70%, it looks like.
It's pretty crazy.
The numbers are growing, too.
It was at one point in time, almost all the smartphones Good percentage of when the iPhone and then slowly but surely the Android started to get better and better and now they're actually the majority.
And there's so many people working on them too.
The new ones are pretty fucking badass.
So if you're like an iPhone person and you're worried, you don't have to.
The new ones are pretty fucking dope.
If you go to rogan.ting.com you can save some money.
They have the devices up there.
If you go and look at their website they have all the cool ones like the one I have which is the Galaxy Note 3. It's enormous, but I love it because it's just great for email and looking at pictures and shit.
But another one that's smaller that's also very badass is the HTC One or the Galaxy S4. All the top-of-the-line phones, they sell them all at Ting.
So go to rogan.ting.com.
And save $25.
Super awesome company.
Really, really happy with them.
Really happy with the feedback, too, from having them as a podcast sponsor.
So, go.
Go check it out.
They also have no-hold customer support.
You can call them.
1-855-TING-FTW. That's Ting for the win.
That shows you that they're LEET. You know what LEET is?
Do you remember L33T? That means you're elite.
You understand, like, tech talk.
Ting for the win, bitches.
Okay?
Enjoy them.
Rogan.ting.com.
Save yourself some money.
Ting also owns Hover.
Hover is actually the domain name company that I use, personally, me.
Super easy to use.
A monkey like me got on Hover and registered domain names with no problems whatsoever.
Very, very easy to do.
And they give you a lot of stuff for free at Hover that you would normally pay for, like who is domain name privacy, which is pretty important when you're Register on some freaky-ass websites.
You don't want people to know where you sleep.
You know what I'm saying, dog?
Exactly!
Also, you can set up emails.
You can have email from your website.
They'll set that stuff up for you.
Hover gives you exactly what you need to get the job done.
You find the perfect domain name for your idea to live so that you can get started.
Move on to the next thing on your to-do list.
I don't know why they want you to say that.
How do I know if you have a next thing on your to-do list?
I don't want to pressure you, man.
unidentified
Okay?
joe rogan
If all you need to do is fucking register your domain name, just do that.
Don't worry about it.
You're going to be okay.
We're all going to be okay.
They have email forwarding for just five bucks.
You can keep using the same inbox you're used to and send them from a way better address.
Sorry for people who don't like me slurping.
But it doesn't bother me.
Hover has the best customer support around.
Go there and enjoy it and use the code word FREAKS. That is for the month of February.
Why FREAKS? They want to distinguish which one of these podcasts you were listening to when you found out about their awesome domain name service.
So for this month, it's FREAKS. I find that all to be very confusing.
And I'm not really into you switching around your fucking passwords, people.
Get it together.
But either way, awesome web service.
I use it.
I enjoy it.
And you should as well.
Use the code word FREAKS. That's hover, H-O-V-E-R dot com.
The best place on the net to register your domains.
And we're also brought to you by Onnit.
Aubrey, I think you know a thing or two about Onnit, perhaps?
Oh, a few things.
You've heard of the company?
aubrey marcus
Yeah, a little bit.
joe rogan
Very controversial place that sells awesome shit.
And one of the newest that I really enjoy, I've been mixing in my protein shakes, is the new greens supplement.
Tell me about that shit.
aubrey marcus
Well, what we wanted to do is just get a bunch of the healthiest stuff you could in freeze-dried powdered format.
So we got a bunch of the actual greens, then we got some of the different colored vegetables like beets and some of the other things you might be missing from your diet.
Put in some probiotics, put in some enzymes, a few of the herbs that are good for liver and some of your organs.
And basically put together kind of a, oh shit, I haven't had my diet right kind of greens that you can add and make sure that you're at least covered from a micronutrient, microvitamin basis that just has basically all the good nutrients in it possible.
joe rogan
Well, it's a great mix of stuff too.
I read the ingredients.
The ingredients list is pretty fucking powerful.
How did you formulate this?
aubrey marcus
Well, one of the key things that we found is I was looking at antioxidant potential as well, and I'm fairly familiar with Peru and some of the things that come out of there, and there was a purple corn that comes out of Peru that they grow pretty much exclusively in that region, and it has a really, really high ORAC value.
And ORAC is a useful tool.
It's not the end-all be-all, but it's an antioxidant measurement.
You know, how many free radicals get quenched by The natural compound.
And that's a process that goes on normally in the body.
And it's a really high amount of that, more so than even some of the other berries, like acai berry and all these other berries that get really highly touted.
So we put a bunch of that in there and then just went from there and got a bunch of full-spectrum greens and put it all together, everything being food-based, just all the coolest, best foods that we could get.
joe rogan
Which is the best way for your body to absorb it.
aubrey marcus
Absolutely.
joe rogan
All the best supplements that you can get are food-based, which is why those studies that came out recently were so stupid and annoying.
Because if you don't know the studies we're talking about, there's this really bold proclamation from whatever study.
Vitamins don't work.
They're not worth it.
It's not worth your time.
Case closed.
Case closed.
Two of the grossest studies ever for saying that vitamins don't work.
One of them was people over 65 that have had heart attacks That were fucking old and had heart attacks, and it didn't stop their progression of death or whatever.
Which is ridiculous.
You're over 65, you have a heart attack.
That's like saying, I had a 72 Pontiac with a blown motor.
It was going down the highway, and you changed the tire, and it didn't fucking fix my car.
Your machine's already broken, man.
You're having a heart attack at 65. This shit is close to the end.
The wheels are falling off the ride.
And the other one was physicians who were over 65 who were showing cognitive decline.
They didn't slow down their cognitive decline.
Okay, so vitamins don't work because of that?
What the fuck, man?
People are really gross with that shit where they want to say, doesn't work, doesn't work.
Why is that?
Because a lot of stuff doesn't work.
But a lot of stuff does, alright?
And that's why these vitamins were made in the first place.
The whole reason why they were extracted from food, analyzed, is because people needed to know what the basic compounds of nutrients were.
What is it about vitamin C that keeps people from getting scurvy?
What is it about vitamin B12 that gives you energy?
What is it about vitamin D that you get from the sign?
This is science.
Everyone's pretending that this is all like, oh, the pseudoscience of supplements.
Fuck you, you fat, lazy piece of shit.
You don't know nothing about your body.
That's what's going on.
All you fucking people that are like, you know, you don't need that.
Eat a balanced diet.
Oh, really, doctor?
Why don't you run up a hill with me, you fuck?
Why don't you tell me about optimum physical performance?
You don't know unless you supplement, unless you have a healthy body.
You don't know the difference between optimum and suboptimum.
You just exist at this sub-optimum state and think, whoa, I have a cup of coffee, I have my eggs and bacon, and I go to work, and I've got no problem whatsoever with my health.
Why, I just got back from the doctor.
People always want to tell you that.
I just got back from the doctor with a clean bill of health.
I'll fucking strangle you.
No, you don't have a clean bill of health.
You're fucking dying, man.
Look at your faces falling off your skin.
Stop it.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, there's a difference between being okay, surviving, and being optimal.
And to be optimal, you've got to put in, you know, how are you going to eat?
There's 24 natural ingredients in this, E-Gen.
How are you going to get these 24 ingredients in everyday diet?
It's going to be a pain in the ass.
joe rogan
You don't need it, Aubrey.
You could have a 10-inch television.
Who needs a 55-inch television?
unidentified
I watch TV on a 10-inch television, and I'm fine.
joe rogan
You don't need a new car.
I've got a 1958 Subaru.
Did they even make Subarus in 58?
Probably not.
It was probably all shitty American cars back then and a couple of Ferraris.
That's probably all they had.
Either way, shut up, all of you, and go to the blog that Aubrey wrote about this because it's a very good blog.
Is there a straight link to the blog from the main site?
I'm trying to find it here.
aubrey marcus
Go to get on it and then blog.
joe rogan
Get on it and then blog.
aubrey marcus
Or being on it.
joe rogan
Being on it and blog.
If you've never been on it before, what we call on it is a human optimization website.
What we sell...
Whether it's supplements or whether it's strength and conditioning equipment is all stuff that we A, know works and B, use.
When it comes to kettlebells when it comes to battle ropes Those are my absolute favorite strength and conditioning pieces of equipment.
There's nothing to me better than kettlebells.
I think there's nothing that I've ever done that I feel like I have full control over.
I don't worry about it.
There's certain things that I worry about.
I've run with sandbags up hills, and I think there's a lot of tricky shit when you're running up hills.
You know, rocky terrain and stuff, like dirt trails.
When you're running over things, I like it.
I think it's a great way to really build some serious endurance, but man, I don't really feel totally in control.
I'm carrying a sandbag, I'm running up a hill.
I've done it with heavy bags too, like kicking bags.
But with kettlebells, I feel like I can get an absolutely fucking brutal, death-defying workout in.
And I know what I'm doing.
I use proper technique.
I don't get hurt using kettlebells, man.
I can just absolutely say that.
I have been using kettlebells for at least a decade now.
I have zero injuries from training with kettlebells.
And one of the reasons, folks...
Is that I got a trainer, okay?
I've had several.
The first one was Jamie Walsh, my English friend.
Steve Maxwell also.
Have someone, and now Justin Milos, who's the best.
Love this fucking guy.
The guy I'm using now is a good friend of mine as well.
Find someone who can teach you the basic fundamentals, whether it's a gym that you have to hire a trainer and let them tape you with a cell phone so you can repeat your movements, or watch a video.
If you don't have anybody anywhere near where you live that has kettlebells or understands how to use it, watch a video and start out light.
Use like an 18-pound kettlebell or a 25-pound kettlebell.
Trust me.
I'm a fucking manly man.
I don't need a 25-pound kettlebell.
You know, you also don't need torn ligaments.
You don't need to drop a kettlebell in your head, stupid.
You don't need to fuck up your turkeys, get up, and now you have a different face.
Be careful.
But if you are careful, you'll enjoy the fuck out of it.
And you'll join the fuck out of everything we sell it on it.
That's O-N-N-I-T. Use the code word ROGAN and save yourself 10% off any and all supplements.
My brother, Aubrey Marcus, is here.
Yeah, buddy.
unidentified
time.
Cue the music.
joe rogan
And here we are ladies and gentlemen, one more time, live, kicking it.
Never worry whether or not we're going to run out of shit to talk about.
I don't ever want you to worry about that.
Before we had this conversation, Aubrey was like, we still have shit to talk about?
Dude, we're always going to have shit to talk about.
The world is a crazy fucking place filled with madness.
It's never going to change.
And there's always shit to talk about.
That's the most beautiful thing about having a podcast.
It's like being a dirt miner.
There's fucking dirt everywhere, man.
You can't go wrong.
There's always something to talk about.
And Jamie, you sent me something over this weekend that was about the drug czar getting fucked over or getting fucked off at.
unidentified
Yeah, it happened this week actually.
joe rogan
I think it was Tuesday.
jamie vernon
Quite a few congressmen got their chance to take their shot at him, I suppose.
joe rogan
And this is the drug czar under the Obama administration.
aubrey marcus
Being called a czar is kind of douchey.
joe rogan
Are you Russian?
Why are you a drug czar?
That's a fucking stupid title.
aubrey marcus
Do you think Putin makes his hookers call him czar?
joe rogan
He probably has some American name.
You'll call me President of the United States.
I am president!
They all want to be president of the United States.
All those gangsters that are running those, you know, they know Russia's a mess.
They don't want to run that thing.
They wish they'd be fucking running America, flying over New York City and fucking saluting people.
But no, trapped in that frozen wasteland with a few good cities.
aubrey marcus
He's got some Stars and Stripes boxer briefs that he pulls out.
joe rogan
I bet he does.
I bet he does.
He's a secret wannabe American.
So what do they say to this fucking czar?
unidentified
This is Rep Cohen.
jamie vernon
I'm not quite sure the czar gets his chance to talk back to this guy.
This went on for like an hour and a half.
unidentified
Like I said, quite a few guys got their chance at him.
joe rogan
Talk about low-hanging fruit.
Shitting on the drug czar.
Has there ever been any sort of a company, any sort of an office that has had less success?
Than the people that look for the war on drugs.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, the abolitionists banning alcohol in the 20s.
That's it, right?
They didn't do very good.
joe rogan
No, that's even less because they abandoned that one.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, they gave up.
joe rogan
Fuck it.
We tap out.
The war on drugs is like a dude that just keeps getting his ass kicked.
Just getting up, keep getting his ass kicked.
You're not even close to winning this fight.
There's no way you're going to win this fight.
The idea of a war on drugs and being run by a czar Holy schmo.
What a fucking, what a terrible job you guys have done.
Out of all the things we think about, the great thing, the Department of Transportation, whoever's done the highway systems.
I mean, it's amazing.
You can drive from California to New York City.
You could do it in four days.
Anybody can do it.
You could drive all the way up to Canada.
You could drive down to Florida.
I mean, you could literally make your way across the entire country, visit every state by car.
I mean, that had to be worked out.
Slowly but surely, we had to pave roads.
We had to chop down trees, blow holes through mountains.
That was awesome.
They did an amazing job.
I mean, people that want to complain about the highway system, dude, you make your own highway.
Let's see what you would do.
Yeah, it's not perfect.
It's made by humans.
Nothing we do is perfect.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, but then the drugs are.
It's like creating a highway where only people crash.
unidentified
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
That's it.
It's just only crashes.
joe rogan
It all fucking falls apart.
aubrey marcus
It's just bridges fall down.
You run straight into mountains where there's supposed to be tunnels.
joe rogan
Sometimes it's concrete.
Sometimes it's paper over sinkholes.
We don't tell you.
Yeah, I mean, there are total abject failures.
There's never been a department that has failed more.
Even the fucking immigration, they stopped some of that shit.
Everybody knows about those border patrol guys.
They have to run across the border if they want to make it into America.
There's a lot of work in crossing from Mexico into America.
It's not a done deal.
But the war on drugs?
Get the fuck out of here.
The amount of damage you've done to drugs is absolutely zero.
Oh, you've taken a few drugs out of the system.
The fuck you have?
aubrey marcus
You've just made them more expensive and a commodity so people can create these gangster organizations.
joe rogan
Yeah, even crazier.
That part.
Create these Mexican cartels.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
You remember when we were kids and Mexico was a nice place to visit?
aubrey marcus
Fuck yeah.
I'm going to be telling some stories about going over, just going over the border of Mexico.
This was 15 years ago?
You know, 14 years ago?
It wasn't that scary then.
joe rogan
Me and Eddie Bravo went to spring break in Mexico at Cancun.
aubrey marcus
Party!
joe rogan
The first year, that was work.
It was kind of great.
We got hammered, too.
It was work, get way too hammered, and then recover, and then fly home.
Disaster, fucking pounding headache.
I was doing something for MTV. I'm glad you remember it.
aubrey marcus
I remember it.
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't think Eddie does.
But we had a good time.
But my point is, there was no apprehension.
We were like, ah, this is going to be fun.
We're going to go see a bunch of concerts.
Puddle of Mud was there.
I met The Rock.
It was the first time I met The Rock.
It was a skinnier version of The Rock.
But I was a skinnier version of me, too.
And I met a bunch of people that were back.
It was fun.
It was like, no big deal.
We're just going to go to Mexico.
Just like how I feel like if I would go to Australia.
unidentified
It's cool.
joe rogan
Here we are.
But now it's like...
Fucking beheadings and chainsaws and people hanging from bridges and body bags, plastic hefty bags filled with chopped up people.
aubrey marcus
And then drug czar leans out from his cape and says, You're welcome, world.
unidentified
You're welcome.
joe rogan
Look what I've done.
aubrey marcus
Kiss my fingers.
joe rogan
I've prevented crime.
Imagine what it would be if I wasn't here.
Yeah.
What a shit job.
Because they've literally pumped up gigantic criminal organizations by keeping people from legitimately selling things that they want to sell.
And we're not even...
There's always going to be something that the community doesn't want.
And there's always going to be idiots who want that something.
Whether it's smelling paint.
Those crazy fucks that blow paint into a paper bag and then they huff it?
That's what they're doing.
I mean, they're taking fucking paint and they're smelling it.
You can't prevent that.
You can't prevent that kind of retard.
You can't.
You can't stop it.
So as long as there are hammers, there's going to be someone who hits themselves in the fucking face with a hammer.
There's no way to prevent that.
So to make things completely across the board illegal just because they're dangerous.
That sets a really fucked up precedent.
Because you've got to start examining all the other things that are legal.
I don't want to suggest this, but here.
How come you could get a lighter at a fucking gas station?
And how come that gas station has a pump that pours flammable liquid on it?
And there's no guards anywhere.
There's no one to stop you from just pouring flammable liquid on someone's car and lighting a match and throwing it on there.
There's no one there to stop that.
But everybody's worried that people are going to have guns.
Oh, the people with the guns are going to kill people.
They're going to walk random into people and just kill people.
They could also light you on fire at the gas station, okay?
That doesn't happen, though.
You know, I mean, we can't stop people from selling saws at fucking Home Depot.
Because someone runs out and just runs into the mall and just starts sawing at people.
We can't.
And the other argument was, well, a gun is a more effective tool.
That's true.
So are bombs.
Okay?
And you can make those.
You can make real legitimate bombs out of all the things that you could find in your average chemical store, things that are legal.
And you can make them with the ingredients on the internet.
It's out there.
aubrey marcus
But then you take this back to drugs and let's say, it's not actually, most of these drugs are not anything like taking a hammer and hitting yourself in the head.
It's actually, you know, as we've all seen and we'll talk about, I'm sure, on this one as we always do, myriad benefits from all of these different drugs.
And not only that, So let's say it was like a hammer.
Let's say it was punching yourself in the head with a hammer.
Well, the punishment for doing that, to prevent you from doing that, is to throw you in a box with crazy criminals and completely dehumanize you where you may or may not get raped.
Who knows?
I watch a lot of Oz.
It looks like it sucks.
But there's no possible way that that isn't worse than what you're doing to yourself when you're taking some drugs in your house.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're not trying to help you.
They're just punishing you and making it scary for everybody else.
And by the way, I'm not against gun regulations at all.
I should just be real clear about that.
I'm also not against drug regulations.
I think it shouldn't be easy to go to a doctor and just get OxyContin's.
I think there's a reason why.
And by the way, whoever sent me some information about that, apparently since we had that podcast with the people from Vanguard, did the OxyContin Express, that documentary, apparently Florida has tightened down their drug laws substantially because of that, because that documentary exposed How fucking insane that whole OxyContin Express is that goes from Florida to the northern states.
It's just a pipeline of OxyContin and the massive amount of people that have prescriptions for it.
But now it's apparently becoming a real issue for the people that are addicted because now they're fucked because they don't have anything to fill that addiction that was created by the pharmaceutical companies making sure that the drug prescription laws were very lax in Florida so they could profit.
It's all fucking bananas.
Yeah, that would help.
Ibogaine.
I'm not against regulation.
Everybody thinks that this is a black and white thing.
No, it's not a black and white thing.
But you can't tell people what to do either.
I'm not against regulation, but I'm against you telling people what to do, especially if you can't prove your point.
And when you start talking about marijuana or psychedelics, when it's mushrooms or even LSD, the amount of danger that you are in when you take LSD and compare the amount of danger that you take when you eat salt.
You know, you could eat, we found out, 10 ounces of salt will fucking kill you.
Ten ounces.
That's it.
Nobody thinks about that, but you fucking sprinkle salt in your fries and salt on this, and saw I had a fucking salted caramel ice cream.
It was delicious.
Like, we don't think about salt being murderous and deadly, but at a certain level, it is.
You get to a certain amount.
Salt will fuck you up.
So will acid.
There's an LD50 for most things.
There's an LD50 for mushrooms.
It's quite high.
LD50 for marijuana.
1,500 pounds in 15 minutes.
Come on, man.
When you say salt is legal and 10 ounces will kill you.
aubrey marcus
I don't know.
I've eaten like two brownies and I'm pretty sure I might have died.
I think that's bullshit there.
joe rogan
I've been there when I'm like, I'm going to be the number one guy.
I'm going to be the first guy to die.
I'm going to fuck up the whole cause.
Well, you know what does die, though, is your ego.
That's why you feel like that.
People don't understand what a deep psychedelic experience eating weed is.
It's insanely psychedelic, especially if you can do it with an isolation tank.
Eating the weed and getting it to the tank is like a fucking cyclone, a vortex that takes you to the center of the universe.
And destroys you.
Like, destroys, like, just highlights everything that you don't like about everything you've ever said.
Brings up shit that you said a decade ago.
And it's like, what about this?
Have you cleaned that up yet?
What about that?
Do you remember this?
This should make you feel bad.
aubrey marcus
It's like Bob Marley said, it's the mirror that reveals you to yourself.
joe rogan
It really does.
People don't like that, but you should.
aubrey marcus
I talked to somebody yesterday, and the only drug he'd ever done was one time, he smoked weed and he liked it.
He's like, oh, that was awesome.
So he made a bunch of brownies, and they didn't really know what they were doing, and he just ate a bunch of them, right?
And he was trying to drive somewhere and meet people, and he said it was like the most miserable experience.
He's going 40 miles an hour on the highway.
He's freaking out.
He's sweating.
It's the second time he's ever done it, and he ate too much.
He's like, man, I couldn't handle any other psychedelic drugs.
I'm like, listen, man, I've done most of them, and eating too much weed is like the most intense shit I've ever done.
You know what I mean?
From all over the world, that'll fucking get you somewhere.
joe rogan
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
And you'll have to deal with it.
joe rogan
I felt much better after every DMT trip.
Every DMT trip I've had has freaked me out.
They've taught me a lot about life, taught me a lot about myself, given me these weird visions and weird insights.
But when it's over, I feel good.
I feel like legitimately good.
I feel like I get raped when I do too much weed.
Like I just get mounted by a demon and have my face fucked.
Just claws in my brain.
And just sitting there taking it.
Knowing that the end is without a doubt coming.
Whether it's 50 years or 60 years or 100 years.
However long you think you're going to live, stupid.
It's coming and no one knows what's next.
And your whole life has been running on this momentum of madness.
The whole life.
The whole fucking thing.
Right out of the vagina.
Bam!
Crazy parents.
Crazy life.
Honk, honk.
unidentified
Beep, beep.
joe rogan
Fuck you.
unidentified
Pssh, pssh.
joe rogan
Tonight on the news, your whole life, madness and trying to stay afloat in a river of fucking crazy people.
Everywhere you go, bobbing fucking crazy maniacs.
All over television, all over school, every fucking person you date, every person you stick your penis inside, or they let you stick their penis inside of you.
Whatever it is, they're all fucking crazy.
And guess what, fuckface?
You're crazy too.
You're crazy.
We're all crazy.
aubrey marcus
And then you take a little dip.
Where everything can get quiet.
joe rogan
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
And you have this moment of clarity where you can reflect back on this crazy circus you've been in and really think about it and then maybe make some course corrections, make some changes, pop out of it.
That's what's beautiful about it.
In Zen, they call it satori, these moments of clarity and consciousness and a general circus of life.
joe rogan
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
Awareness.
joe rogan
It's the reset button.
aubrey marcus
That's it.
joe rogan
I like to do it once a month.
Some way or another.
Once a month, hit the reset.
I have a huge benefit of having that tank.
Having that tank in my basement is so gigantic.
aubrey marcus
Hell yeah.
joe rogan
Because if I ever need to just go on a wild one, I just eat a pot brownie and get in that fucking thing.
aubrey marcus
I'm just out of space.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ!
Yeah, I've become molecules in a never-ending fractal universe before.
I was in this one vision that was so intense.
The problem with these things is they're so intense, especially, by the way, when I take AlphaBrain.
I've got this new way of...
We've always talked about the dreams.
Alpha Brain has a really intense effect on dreams.
It also seems to have a very intense effect on the visualizations that I get when I eat marijuana.
I get a more intense series of things that I see.
When you eat it, when you close your eyes, not when my eyes are open, there's no hallucinogenic effects, at least for me, but when I close my eyes, I see things in front of my eyelids, like dancing cartoons that are neon, and they're having sex and breeding and stuff.
I see weird, crazy shit.
Very, very psychedelic.
If your eyes were open and you saw those things, you would think, wow, I'm on something serious.
I'm on some mushrooms here.
But having your eyes closed and just envisioning these things as a dream, somehow or another they become less preposterous or less crazy.
But it's very intensely hallucinogenic.
And more so, it seems, when I take Alpha Brain.
So, the eating of the pot, which is intensely hallucinogenic.
I mean, I've had wild experiences eating it and just being on a plane.
And closing my eyes on a plane and seeing just nutty fucking light shows in front of my eyelids.
But inside the tank, it's just...
Cranks it up to 10. Just finds some new gear that you didn't know existed.
aubrey marcus
I think seeing those things to me is a good sign that you're in that state of presence.
You're in that state of the nether where you're just accessing the unconscious realms of the mind.
And that's, for me, even when I meditate with nothing, that's what I'm kind of shooting for.
If I can close my eyes and start drifting into other, just following the visions without trying to direct them or think, That's when I know my mind's shut off, and that's when I know I'm in a good place.
And psychedelics tend to have that characteristic always with them as well, and I think it goes hand in hand.
It's just that's what happens when the mind gets quiet, and you're just kind of floating around looking at these images as they appear.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's a thing that you do when you're in a normal state of consciousness where you sort of...
Almost controlling and defining your reality by your ability to see things clearly, you know where they are, you know distances, you've got everything locked down, you know where everything is, you see the people around, you see the objects, but when you're on a psychedelic and you're closing your eyes, Or even if you're in heavy meditation and you're closing your eyes, your imagination starts to kick in and you start to see and dream and feel things.
They don't have to be there.
You have to put those on a scale for them to count.
Take those ideas and hit them with a hammer, otherwise they're not real.
No, they're real.
The imaginary ideas that you get with your eyes closed, depending on what's causing them, whether it's meditation and yoga, whether you got punched in the face and you're seeing stars, whatever the fuck it is that's causing it, these visions are still real.
You can say they're hallucinations, and you'd be correct medically.
But, say if I gave you DMT, and I told you, what I'm going to give you is a natural psychedelic compound that your own brain produces.
And all it really does when I give it to you is, it's going to fuck with your cerebral cortex, fuck with your visual interpretations of things, and you're going to see things all scrambled up.
Like, as if your connectors are plugged in wrong on your television.
You're just going to see a bunch of crazy shit.
So don't worry about it.
It doesn't mean anything.
And you come back and you say, I saw God and he told me the nature of the universe is love and that the universe is actually made of love and understanding.
The suffering only exists for us to be able to truly appreciate the love.
And as human beings evolve, the suffering and the love will do battle.
This is literally the good and evil of the Bible.
And this is why this has been interpreted by every major religion.
This is this internal struggle that we all know.
This is the reason why it's so admirable when someone becomes a good person.
Because we know how difficult it is to always choose the light.
No, no, no, no.
You were just tripping.
No, no, no, no.
You don't understand, man.
We gave you DMT and your brain fucked up.
Now, if I gave you another pill and I said, this is a pill that was brought to us by angels and it came in this beautiful crystal box and it's directly from God himself and it's a door.
It's a door to God's kingdom and you're going to get to talk to him and hang out with him for 15 minutes.
You want to do it?
You'd be like, oh my god, it's from God?
Yes, it's from God.
It's from God.
Look, the pill has a cross on it.
Just take it.
So you take it, and you have the exact same experience that I described.
The exact same experience as the experience where the guy told you, oh, your cerebral cortex is confused, and you're just seeing shit that's not there, and your imagination creates God.
The experience is exactly the same.
And that's what people have to understand.
Everybody wants to, the same assholes, vitamins don't work.
Come on, you don't need them.
You, no, maybe, shut up!
That's not what the fuck is going on.
This exact same reason why this need to dispel any notions that you're having spiritual experience.
And to sort of minimize those experiences.
But it's the same experience.
And if you benefit from that experience to the same extent as you would benefit from a real visit with angels, then it's just as good, dummy.
It's just as good.
aubrey marcus
It's causing the positive effect that you could only dream to achieve by doing that.
And it's being duplicated by science, too, now.
joe rogan
And it's real.
aubrey marcus
The Johns Hopkins study, and it's real.
joe rogan
This isn't Mormonism.
aubrey marcus
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah, this isn't fucking Scientology.
aubrey marcus
This isn't golden tablets that they found in Pennsylvania or whatever.
joe rogan
Yeah, all you have to do is smoke this stuff and you fucking travel to other dimensions.
Like, I'm not making it up.
You'd say I'm making it up, but every fucking person that's ever done it comes back to me and goes...
You weren't even making that up.
Nope, I wasn't even making that up.
Crazy, huh?
Crazy that you're hearing about that from the Fear Factor guy.
aubrey marcus
So I was thinking about opening the archives.
I've never talked about it, but my very first psychedelic experience is that kind of got me on this path.
I've told the ayahuasca story, the aboga story, but this is all after I've been...
Somewhat through the initiation cycle.
So I was thinking of getting into that.
joe rogan
And where was it?
aubrey marcus
So this was, I was like between 18 and 22. So in college.
And I started my first one at 18. And I'm going to change the geographic location just a little bit because in case she's still rocking and rolling out there.
Anyway, so go out to the Southwest crossover.
She picks me up in a, you know, land cruiser or whatever.
She's got a dog and a car and She is, you know, kind of that loose shaman, but more of like a psychiatric kind of medicine giver.
You know, not trained in these ancient arts or ways, indigenous people.
She just kind of knew about the medicine, had a great heart.
And so she picks me up, and I'm pretty fucking terrified.
I've done nothing.
I smoked weed once with my brothers and had laugh, and we ate, like, the worst food possible.
joe rogan
What made you want to do this?
aubrey marcus
I was like, I'm very curious by nature.
Like, I wanted to see what was possibly...
joe rogan
Get you involved in some gay sex.
You've got to be very careful.
Don't be too curious.
aubrey marcus
Well, I haven't been curious about that yet.
Don't get you.
joe rogan
If you're too curious, those motherfuckers are tricky.
They're guys!
Remember that.
Always remember that.
Gay guys are guys.
aubrey marcus
So, yeah, and I was fairly agnostic.
I kind of had a sense that maybe there was something more, but I was more borderline atheist.
Like, eh, there ain't shit.
You know, you go in a box, all these people are...
Because I knew enough, and I went to high school in Texas, and they're always trying to get me to these Christian ministry things, and I'm asking them questions, and they're looking at me like, huh?
You know, I was like, this is a bunch of fucking bullshit.
So I was more on the atheist side.
So I decided, you know, as a connection through the old, you know, old family friends and I just decided to go off there, kind of like a rite of passage.
So it picks me up.
I'm nervous as shit.
We get to the place.
There's some nice little mountains and hills, and we got this little yurt that I'm going to stay in.
A yurt?
It was a yurt, yeah, built up out there.
No power, anything like that.
So we're going to do it the next day.
She says, okay, good night.
Here's everything you need.
So I'm up all night just nervous as shit because you feel like you're about to jump off a cliff.
You have no idea what's going to go down.
And I sometimes, you know, I get a lot of these people sending me messages and I forget what I was like that very first time because it's fucking terrifying.
So I get up early in the morning and I go for a long walk.
And I'm just trying to get my head around this.
I'm so afraid that I'm going to completely lose touch with reality.
And I may never get back.
That's the fear.
You're going to be so gone.
What's there?
What's left?
How do you cling to anything?
You have no control.
So I'm freaking out.
So on my way back from the hike, I kind of get my head in a good place and I pick up this rock.
And it's rather flat and I still have it to this day.
And I was like, all right, I'm going to hold this rock through the ceremony.
And if ever I feel like I'm completely out of touch with the earth, I'm going to have this rock here.
And that's going to let me know that there are rocks.
And one day I'll go back to the world of the rocks.
And I'll at least be okay.
So we go and we're about to start the ceremony.
And my very first ceremony was going to be, and she was very open with what she was giving me, was going to be a combination of mushrooms and MDMA, pure MDMA. Whoa, she's candy flipping you right off the bat?
Right off the bat.
unidentified
What a crazy bitch.
aubrey marcus
So we go and we set an intention.
She had me write an intention for what I was going to do.
And I'm nervous.
I have no idea.
So I read my intention and I'm already like pretty emotional.
And then we have a tea.
I drink the tea and I take the pill.
And I just kind of wait and my heart's thumping.
I don't know what's going to happen.
And then I think probably the MDMA started kicking in first.
And I was like, God.
God damn, this feels pretty good.
And then the mushrooms started really kicking.
And then the visionary experience started to happen.
And I remember one of my first visions.
I was walking through like a field of grass.
And I was just feeling my hands move through the grass.
Like I was pushing right through the grass.
And then I could feel like my breathing didn't seem that necessary anymore.
And I was almost becoming disconnected from my breath.
And then I could feel the wind coming through and all of a sudden the wind just went right through me.
And my physical body no longer existed in that moment.
It was almost like, I am sure I still was breathing, but it felt like I absolutely was not and didn't need to and it didn't matter.
And my spirit was completely disconnected from my body.
And at that moment was probably one of the most defining moments of my life because I realized, holy shit, this little meat vehicle that I'm really attached to is not what I really am.
It's just a car that I'm driving around in for now.
And like this other thing that I'm experiencing and feeling separate from that body That's something different.
And the clarity I had from that moment, from being able to separate from my body, was immense.
And I realized at some point, when you're free of these bodily confines and the mind, you're going to be able to look back at your life and see everything that you've done, good or bad.
And if it's good and you've lived well and you've pushed out as much love and done the best you can, you're going to be in a heavenly state at that point.
It's going to be heaven.
You've done your job on this earth.
You've had a great time.
You've spread the light, spread the love, and done what you were there to do, basically.
But if you've lived badly and done harm to people and hurt people and increased the suffering of the world, at that point, the blinders are just ripped off your eyes, and you've got to stare dead in the face of all the demons and evil you've ever done.
And that's fucking hell.
That's a hell that's worse than any fire and brimstone.
Because there's no way to not look.
It's like one of those horror movies where they have you, you know, your eyes pinned open and you can't not look at something terrible in front of you, except you're looking back at your own life.
And I realized that, you know, I had a lot of anger towards Christianity at that point.
And I was like, this is all bullshit.
I was like, wait a minute, maybe there is a heaven and hell.
You know, it just doesn't involve the demons and the sugar candy mountain and the bullshit.
But it's a point where you're reconnected with spirit and you get to look back and reflect your life.
And nobody else needs to torture you or pat you on the back, wish you to the pearly gates.
That's all going to be through yourself.
And that changed the fucking game forever.
Wow.
joe rogan
First experience.
aubrey marcus
First experience.
joe rogan
Knocks it out of the park.
aubrey marcus
Knocks it out of the park.
I was up and that was a really cool night for me.
I was up, you know, all the stars there were far, far away from electricity and the old dog that was in the car was, you know, had really bad hips and they had a main, the main kind of house, little casa that was way warmer.
They had a bunch of fires and things.
It was nice and cozy.
Out in the yurt, it was, you know, much more kind of rural, not much going there.
You got to really blank it up.
And I was pretty vulnerable at that point.
I was out of my body or whatever.
And the coyotes start coming in at the night.
And I remember the old dog just stayed right outside my door.
Never spent the night outside because it's an old arthritic dog.
And just stayed out there awake all night with me, you know, as I was kind of going through this stuff.
And it was just kind of a cool kinship I felt.
Probably one of the first times I felt like a real kinship with another coyote.
Like a different animal.
joe rogan
So you were high as fuck.
You were clinging to reality.
You had a rock and a dog.
Those were your two best friends.
aubrey marcus
That was it, man.
And I was just on a fucking mission.
So I went back.
I went back to her and did the same thing.
Meet her in the airport.
Go drive across the border.
And then go do these journeys.
I did several different other interesting things from that point.
I snuffed 5-MeO-DMT. Which was a fucking wild experience.
joe rogan
Snuffed it down in Mexico?
aubrey marcus
Yep.
Snuffed it.
So they created, I think it was a snuff from the bufotoxin in some kind of traditional way.
I'm hoping they harvested it, you know, friendly from the frog or whatever.
But they created a snuff.
And, you know, pretty much it was this like caterpillar looking amount of powder.
It was like ruddy brown.
And this was my second journey, second time down to see her.
And I guess I had some kind of straw or something.
I was snorting.
It wasn't a rolled up hundo.
But it was like some kind of straw or old kind of seed tube.
And so I snuffed it.
And that was my first DMT experience.
But of course, as you know, 5-MeO DMT is a much different animal.
joe rogan
It's even stronger.
aubrey marcus
Yeah.
It was a really incredibly personal experience.
So in that experience, I went back and relived.
I had a great child.
I have no complaints.
But my dad had a pretty savage temper.
And it would just build up and he would get really intimidating and start yelling at me.
And I guess I'd built up some issues about that, you know, as probably most kids would.
I was pretty young when this would happen.
And it fucking put me right back in the room with one of these most intense experiences.
And I was reliving it, and my dad was in the same place just yelling at me.
Like, blah, blah, blah.
And all of a sudden, I, as that little kid, like, became the man that I was.
I was 1920. And I was like, you're gonna fucking yell at me like that now?
Look at me now.
You want to do that shit to me now?
And it was turning this fear that I had had into, like, this standing up for myself and rage like, I fucking dare you.
joe rogan
So you went as an adult almost and relived this experience.
aubrey marcus
Completely relived it, but with the strength that I had accumulated as an adult.
I was doing kickboxing and I was lifting weights.
I was pretty athletic at that point, more so than my father.
At that point, I just relived it as this, don't you fucking dare do that to me.
It was really heavy.
I was in that fucking space the whole time.
It wasn't like I was imagining it.
That was happening.
Like, I was in the room.
And there was tears, and then ultimately, you know, ultimately a kind of forgiveness, you know, where in my vision, he was like, I'm so sorry.
You know, I was like, I understand.
And I was like, okay.
And we kind of, my relationship with him since then, for the 12 years after, was that, like, fixed a huge, huge divide between us.
You know, where I could say, I'm a man now, and I'm not scared of you, no matter what you try to do.
And I kind of reversed this thing that had me a little fearful.
It had me feeling not like a man myself, I guess, because I got kind of dominated in a way by my father figure.
And that was kind of the real coming-of-age experience for me.
joe rogan
There was a guy at the park the other day.
I was with my kids.
We were playing around some guys, playing with his kid.
Seems real friendly.
And he says, hey man, you're going to be raising his hand someday.
About his son, meaning that his son is going to be an MMA fighter.
And I almost want to tell him, not if you do a good job, I won't.
I mean, it sounds fucked up, but there's a few guys who had real good parents, like George St. Pierre or John Jones.
His parents come to every fight.
Obviously, I don't know what the relationship that they had with their parents was, but...
There's a large percentage, a very large percentage of fighters who were beaten up and fucked with as a young kid.
Not just bullied by their kids at school, but beaten by their parents.
You know, child abuse.
I mean, there's a ton of them.
There's a guy who was arrested yesterday, Tiago Silva.
Did you hear this story?
aubrey marcus
Standoff with police?
I didn't dig deep.
joe rogan
Armed standoff.
With the police in Miami.
I don't know the whole story, but apparently it involved a woman.
I don't know what the fuck happened.
It might have involved drugs.
There's a bunch of different versions of it.
Obviously, the dude was a crazy person.
Whatever happened, there was allegedly some guns and allegedly some fucking...
He's a murderer in the cage.
Tiago Silva's a scary motherfucker.
He comes after dudes.
Imagine that guy with no referee and a gun.
Holy Jesus Christ, you know?
I don't know what happened.
But there's a story that someone put today on the Underground about Tiago Silva's childhood.
The underground being mixedmartialarts.com, which is one of my favorite, well, my number one favorite website when it comes to MMA. It's just an awesome forum, always has great up-to-date news, and I know the guys who run it, and they're very, very cool guys.
But the actual story of him...
Growing up, his childhood was fucking horrific.
Horrific to read.
I had to stop reading it.
I was talking about his dad just regularly beating the fucking shit out of him.
He has a big scar on his head from when he was a little boy.
His dad fucking opened him up.
I mean, terrifying, terrifying shit.
That's how you make a really scary guy like Tiago Silva.
You make a guy who doesn't want to fucking take it anymore.
He's tired of it and he learns how to stand up for himself.
But along the way, sometimes you can make a fucking monster.
You can make a monster with abuse.
aubrey marcus
No doubt.
It has an effect.
I mean, one of my best friends is Roger Huerta, and it's no secret.
He was abused by pretty much all the female figures in his life pretty savagely.
And it certainly can contribute.
And then there are those people who are just...
meant to be the samurai of the way, you know, the Musashi types where it just suits them.
joe rogan
Yes.
aubrey marcus
So it's, you know, either, either, or you have to have this deep calling from some archetypal draw to that, or there has to be something that kind of deflects you in a weird way.
And I wonder if I hadn't done all these different things, you know, mine wasn't that severe.
I'm As I said, I had a great fucking childhood.
I'm very blessed.
But I wonder if I wouldn't have wanted to...
Because I was on the borderline for doing some fighting and things like that.
If I hadn't gotten that out and really felt like I could assert myself fully as a man then, in that rite of passage, maybe I would have sought it in the cage somehow.
Maybe that would have had to fulfill that role for even me.
You never know where...
Obviously, I was never destined to be a fucking champion, but maybe I would have...
Gone into some smokers or something.
But, you know, it's interesting and the effects that that can have in really doing the heavy work, doing the heavy lifting, that sitting there talking on a couch to somebody, you know, you aren't going to get there.
You aren't going to see it happening and rewrite, reprogram the history in your brain.
So when I look at that back now, it's not like, poor me.
It's, I'm sorry, my dad had to You know, inflict that.
That's going to be hurting him.
But I'm not affected.
I'm not scared by that anymore.
I overcame that from, you know, from the help of this medicine.
joe rogan
Yeah, the feelings that I had when I was in high school, the big one was I moved around a lot.
And when I was in high school, I didn't really get picked on.
I went to a really good school.
It was a nice place.
I mean, everybody gets bullied a little bit.
You get fucked with by people a little bit.
Sure.
My zest for fighting was almost all entirely based on my childhood.
It was based on trying to overcome any feelings of weakness or vulnerability that I had when I was younger.
So as I got less and less vulnerable, my desire to fight got less and less too.
It was really fascinating to especially experience in retrospect and look back on it.
Once I was out of the house, I wasn't living with my mom and my stepdad anymore.
I was on my own.
I was almost zero aggression.
It was weird.
I wasn't in school anymore.
Nobody was telling me what to do anymore.
I didn't have this feeling like I was going to be this utter, complete failure because I couldn't get through school without falling asleep.
I'm so fucking bored.
As I got 19, 20, 21, then it became about...
In this intense challenge.
Then it became a much more healthy appreciation for competition.
Because when I was 16, I just wanted to fuck people up.
And my parents actually didn't want me to do martial arts because they were terrified that I was going to become this angry kid who knew how to fuck people up.
Whereas before, it was this angry kid who really couldn't do anything.
It wasn't dangerous.
I was 11. And then this 11-year-old became 12, and the 12-year-old's like, I want to be like Bruce Lee.
And they're like, the fuck you?
No, I don't think so.
Didn't want me having nunchucks.
I had nunchucks all the time.
People were just taking shit away from me.
I'd make them in the wood shop.
I'd tell them that I was making chair legs.
My chair's got two broken legs.
Funny that they look exactly like nunchucks.
Mr. Chason, who's the...
aubrey marcus
I think every kid loved nunchucks.
joe rogan
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
That was it.
joe rogan
Everybody did.
Of course, the Bruce Lee movies, man.
They were dope.
You see him swinging around us.
aubrey marcus
I had a really funny story that happened there.
So there was a kid, I was like seven, and there was a neighbor kid who was like 12, and he was big, you know, way bigger than me.
And he would kind of pick on me a little bit just because he was bigger, but I had a bunch of older brothers, so they would always keep him in line or whatever.
One day he did something fucked up to me.
And again, that's 7 versus 12. So they're like, all right, we got a plan.
And I had, you know, those foam nunchucks that you could get for like playing around.
They had a hard center and foam on the outside.
So I had those hidden behind my back.
My brother was holding me back and he says, Ryan, go take your shots, man.
I'm fucking sick.
That was Chris, and I'm sick of Chris's bullshit.
Go take your shots.
And meanwhile, he's holding me loosely, and I just have these nunchucks.
And this guy's like, yeah, I'm going to get him a cheap shot.
So he goes up to punch me in the stomach, and I just whip him out like fucking Bruce Lee and just go apeshit on this 12-year-old kid.
And I remember I was like, I am fucking Bruce Lee.
joe rogan
So did you hit him with the nunchucks?
aubrey marcus
Oh, yeah.
I fucking lit him up.
I lit him up.
joe rogan
Foam nunchucks?
aubrey marcus
They were hitting him.
It was like a fucking swarm of bees he just ran into.
joe rogan
These guys set him up.
What a dumbass.
Yeah, I'm holding my brother back.
Come punch him.
Yeah.
What kind of asshole believes that?
That kid deserves it.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He deserves it.
That's a lesson the universe taught him.
What are you, fucking stupid?
He's not going to hold his brother and let you punch him.
You silly bitch.
There's Bruce Lee with the nunchucks in that video.
Look at that.
He was fucking people up with noon checks.
Bruce Lee was the inventor of the retard wagon train.
It's like one guy stands in the center, and they all take turns, which fucking never happens in the real world, by the way, folks.
They come at you with a mass of bodies, all centrally located, and one person grabs you, and you maybe get to punch one or two as they drag you to the ground and break everything on your body, stomp you into a fucking applesauce pulp.
aubrey marcus
There's a lot of myths that I think came up from those martial arts movies.
I started watching a little bit of that UFC documentary, the 20 years thing.
That was kind of cool to see.
joe rogan
It was intense.
I almost cried.
Never thought that would happen.
aubrey marcus
That was pretty powerful.
joe rogan
Yeah, when we were sitting and talking about it, and I was talking about how long I've been doing this.
It's weird.
Yeah, 20 fucking years is a long-ass time.
But meanwhile, in 20 years, the 20 years of the UFC has been around 21 now, the world of martial arts has evolved more than it has in thousands of years.
aubrey marcus
Yep.
joe rogan
Thousands.
Like, people know exactly what works now.
I mean, there's a few weird...
That's me.
Look, I'm so cute.
There's a few, like, techniques that are just starting to creep in.
There's a few, like, Taekwondo techniques.
Like, you rarely see axe kicks, but occasionally someone will throw an axe kick.
This guy, Amogov, this guy who's been fighting the UFC, I guess his background must have been in Taekwondo.
Some karate or something, but he throws a bunch of fucking wild kicks.
Spinning 360 round kicks and shit like that.
He knocked a guy with a 360 wheel kick once in a fight.
aubrey marcus
What makes those viable it seems to me is you have to be good enough at everything else before you can attempt that.
You just come in there and that's what you got in your toolkit.
joe rogan
You're going to get taken down.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, you're going to get drugged into fucking bad, bad places.
joe rogan
You've got to have a good ground game and you've got to have a good takedown defense.
If you don't have a good takedown defense, you've got to have a good guard.
It's why Donald Cerrone is so good.
Cerrone is like an expert kicker, but he also has a wicked guard.
If you take him down, he fucked Evan Dunham up when they went to the ground.
He caught him in a triangle and just locked it up tight.
His triangle is nasty and he likes fighting.
That's another good component to Donald Cerrone.
aubrey marcus
That head kick knockout where he kicked that guy in the neck.
joe rogan
Oh my god, it was beautiful.
It was beautiful.
aubrey marcus
The shin to the neck.
joe rogan
Yeah, Adriano Martins.
He fucking caught him shin to the neck, Ernesto Who style.
You just shut off, man.
Your shit just shuts off.
Yeah, that's what he did.
It was beautiful.
That shin to the neck, man, it's one of my favorite all-time techniques.
Maurice Smith, who's a good buddy of mine, he landed, that was like one of the first head kicks in MMA. He landed on Conan Silviera back in extreme fighting.
I'm pretty sure he shinned him in the neck.
But that chin to the neck technique, man, it's a crazy thing that happens.
Your shit just shuts off.
aubrey marcus
Game over.
joe rogan
Yeah, that nerve just gets fucking blasted.
Here's Cerrone and Martins.
This dude fucked up.
Look at that.
I mean, that is just picture perfect.
That is like, that is exactly how the technique is supposed to be thrown and exactly how it's supposed to land and exactly what happens when you get hit like that.
You just, night, night.
aubrey marcus
And Donald was cool too about that when he didn't try to throw another one.
joe rogan
Yeah, he could have easily uncorked that punch.
He's very aware.
Well, he's so aware also because he fights so often.
I mean, he fought four times last year.
And, you know, when you fight that much, you're much more present.
That's the thing about fighting is the more often you get in fights, the more relaxed you'll get when you're actually fighting, the more you could fight up to your ability.
That's why a big layoff, when people talk about ring rust, it's not just like when they talk about what is ring rust, what is octagon rust, whatever, what is it?
What it is, is you gotta get comfortable with that crazy experience.
You gotta have that experience really close to you.
Like, one of my best fights ever was I won this US Open tournament.
And I won it because I fought the week before.
I fought a tournament the week before, and I injured my groin, and I thought I was done.
I was like, I can't compete in this New Hampshire tournament because I'm just too fucked up.
Like, my groin is really fucked up.
But Saturday morning, the day of the tournament, I always got up early because I delivered newspapers.
And I was delivering newspapers like 5 o'clock in the morning and I was like, I'm gonna fucking fight.
Like, I feel good.
It was really a caffeine and sugar buzz that made me fight because I ate a bunch of donuts.
I had fucking terrible diet back then.
But I ate a bunch of...
I burned off so many calories.
I had like 4.5% body fat.
Like, no bullshit.
4.5% body fat and I was competing.
And, um...
I ate a couple donuts and drank a full cup of Dunkin' Donuts coffee.
And these two donuts, I'll never forget it.
It was a Boston Cream donut and one of those lemon cream ones, lemon custard ones, which was covered in white powdered sugar.
unidentified
Double-filled donuts.
joe rogan
Yo, I was...
Flying on sugar and I was like, I'm gonna go to New Hampshire and fuck some people up.
But the reason why I fought so good, I'm pretty sure, was that I had just fought seven days ago.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
So it's like that experience was still fresh in my mind.
I had just gotten through a whole tournament seven days ago and won.
So I was like going to this tournament.
I was like so used to fighting.
It was like it was last week's activity.
And here we're gonna do it again this week, you know.
But one time I tore a muscle and I had to take a long time off.
I didn't fight for like six months.
That was the longest probably ever.
And I remember when going back to fight again, I was like, do I even know what the fuck I'm doing?
Am I going to freeze up out here?
This is kind of scary.
aubrey marcus
Well, the mind gets engaged again.
And that's exactly what you don't want.
Because that takes you out of the present moment.
I think that's the key for all of these sports.
Any fucking sport.
You just got to release the mind and the thinking about past things, future things.
You have your game plan.
You know that going in.
And then just let it go, man.
joe rogan
That's one aspect of it.
But the other aspect is technique and skill and endurance and training and discipline.
aubrey marcus
Because if you don't have that...
joe rogan
They're equally important.
Because you could think you're a bad motherfucker and be totally in the zone and completely neutral and zen.
But if you're a white belt, Marcelo Garcia is going to fucking strangle you.
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter what's going through your head.
Oh, you know, dude, I'm different than other people.
I'm in the zone.
I'm completely tuned in.
aubrey marcus
It's just going to get you to the best of your ability, but that may not cover the distance between the worst of someone else's ability.
You could catch someone thinking about, you know, a girl that just cheated on him and all fucked in the head.
joe rogan
He's going to be so angry.
aubrey marcus
Playing at the worst of his ability is still smoky.
joe rogan
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
Only so much you can do.
joe rogan
Jacare is still going to break your arm.
Hadja Gracery is still going to choke you to sleep.
It's just you're not good enough.
You have to be good enough and those other things, which is one of the things that's so beautiful about MMA or about Jiu Jitsu or any martial art, kickboxing, is it's so hard to get really good.
It's so hard.
There's so many things involved.
It has to be a list of things have to be in order for you to win championships.
If you, you know, if you get to be a UFC champion, you get to be a Chris Weidman, you get to be a Jon Jones, so many things have to be in order for you to get to be that good.
Your mind, your body, life experiences, the will to win.
The discipline to show up at the gym, the intelligence to not eat shitty food, all these fucking...
Meanwhile, I told you about winning the US Open after you told us to drink coffee.
I was young.
I was 19 or 20. You get away with a lot when you're really young.
But the list of things that have to be in perfect order for you to become great at anything...
That's why it's so fun to pursue greatness or so enriching to pursue it.
And even if it's just personal greatness, you know, you don't have to be the greatest in the world at anything, but if you personally improve at something, whether it's fucking playing tennis or anything, whether it's writing books...
As you improve.
aubrey marcus
We were talking about it right before this podcast.
It doesn't matter what master you meet.
It can be a master of anything.
We were using the context of this bowhunter you just met.
joe rogan
Cameron Haynes, yeah.
aubrey marcus
They're just awesome to be around.
I don't give a fuck, because I'm meeting a ton of them with Onnit now.
It's one of the great things that I love about Onnit.
These excellent people are coming out of the woodwork saying, hey, I was fucking excellent and I know what's good and I like your stuff.
It's awesome.
It makes me even better.
And that's awesome for me.
But what's even better is spending time with these people.
And it's been such a divergent amount of skills, but it's all really the same person deep down just applying that methodology.
As your favorite quote is, know the way broadly and you'll see it in all things.
It doesn't matter what your art is, but it gets you to a place where you're a fucking cool person to hang around with.
joe rogan
Yeah, all those dudes are the same guy.
They're the same guy in different forms.
The same girl, the same woman in different forms.
It's people that figure out how to get through this crazy maze of life and come out with something.
And they're real.
The real masters, there's a real confidence to them.
There's something to them.
There's this...
This present energy.
They're not bullshitting you.
They're just there.
Just fucking there.
And this Cameron Haynes guy was totally like that.
It's cool as fuck.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, you've gone to the edge of your own darkness.
Because you have to.
You have to go past that to be really excellent.
Because you have to work your way through it.
And you have that constant resistance.
Resistance is always coming up and pushing you...
As Steven Pressfield said when we were here, anytime you go from the lower to the higher, resistance is going.
And the journey to mastery, that's all it is, is a journey from lower to higher.
So every fucking plateau, you're battling resistance and having to overcome it to transcend to the next plateau.
So that skill level and being able to do that applies to the rest of your life.
And it doesn't matter if it's a retired 70-year-old, used to be a master at something.
They still have that fucking quality inside of them.
joe rogan
Yeah, and I'm going to read this email that Cameron sent me today.
Someone sent him.
I won't reveal the guy's name because I'm sure he wanted it private.
But he said that watching you and the Joe Rogan experience, you're an inspiration.
Seeing your approach and philosophy checks off so many boxes with me.
Seeing someone work hard at something meaningful to them is wonderful.
Even if I never hunt, the idea that I can say, you know what?
I want to push this area of my life to the next level.
Can I be in better shape for this?
Or better mental condition?
And that this doesn't have to apply to things like winning the Olympic gold, but just to be better at surfing or hunting, juggling, it doesn't matter.
And he said, thanks, man.
That's a beautiful email.
He got that inspiration.
He got that charge.
unidentified
Yep.
joe rogan
And that's what I was saying to Cameron on the podcast yesterday is that I got that from him.
I got that from watching his videos.
I got, first of all, Um, his positivity.
He's, like, this really smiley, friendly guy who does, like, really nice things.
Like, he auctioned off his bow and gave the money to some guy who was battling cancer and, you know, and made this really thankful video about it.
Like, his energy is pure.
Like, you can see it when he's communicating.
And he's a fucking fiend.
The guy's a workout maniac.
The guy's an animal.
He's a savage.
He's out there fucking shooting pointy sticks at elk.
And when you're hanging out with him, couldn't be cooler.
So it's like...
When you're around enough of those people, you start absorbing a higher ideal.
And I think that we oftentimes, we imitate the people that we're around.
We imitate our atmosphere to a certain extent.
Or at least, it sets a watermark.
And when you meet people like this Cameron Haynes guy or hundreds of other people that have had on this podcast, it sets a higher watermark.
It gives you more to aspire to.
aubrey marcus
I agree completely.
I made a post on my Facebook page that I said something like, It's encouraging that same thing, changing your friends, deciding who you want to hang out with and trying to hang out with these people that really inspire you.
And so then there was this backlash of people saying, some people say, no, man, you're perfect just the way you are.
You shouldn't try to be anything different.
And I was like...
Well, I kind of get what you're saying, but in order to hang out with other people that inspire you, you can't just be like, I am what I am, bro.
I'm not going to fucking try anything.
You got to be in the same path, you know, to connect with them, to really be someone that they want to hang out with.
You got to be pushing yourself too.
And that's part of the process because they're going to see that.
You know, if you haven't gone out and actively faced your own demons...
They'll be nice.
They'll shake your hand or whatever.
But they're not calling you out for, you know, beers and a game of pool on Saturday.
You know, they got other people that inspire them, that they want to be around and make them feel alive from that same kind of energy and connection.
And, you know, I think it's important.
Yes, you know, some parts of us are perfect as they are.
But nonetheless, that pursuit of excellence is going to put you in the class with other people who are on the same pursuit.
You know, water finds its level.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's that old expression, game recognizes game.
It does.
People who are real, I don't like using that expression, people who are real, because there's so many fucking abuses of that word real.
Keeping it real.
I'm out there keeping it real.
But those people that are present, people that are legitimately who they are They're not projecting.
They're not putting on an act.
When you meet someone who is putting on an act, God, it's glaring.
It's a sore thumb.
It's just throb, throb, throb.
Just douchiness and grossness.
Get me away from this fucking idiot.
And just catching a little lie here and there.
Catching a little...
You know, just a little exaggeration, a little distortion, a little...
That shit is bad for you.
It's bad for you to be around.
You can catch that just like you can catch a cold.
You know, you can catch distortion.
Lower your standards.
It'll slowly chip away.
If you lived in prison and you were surrounded by liars and thieves and murderers, like you were in the worst prison ever, everyone was guilty, no one was set up, no one had a bad childhood, just cunts, just the prison, the cunt penitentiary, you know, your idea of what human beings are would drop.
aubrey marcus
Well, it happens to cops all the time.
You know, cops are dealing with the worst of humanity on a regular basis.
So they sometimes suspect, and I say this because my stepdad was on the SWAT team and he was a cop.
joe rogan
My dad was a cop.
aubrey marcus
And so they see the worst in people so often that it taints, their glasses are a little ruddy black, you know?
I mean, they're seeing the worst in everybody just because that's what they're conditioned to do.
joe rogan
Yeah, they also have some of the best sense of humor.
I have some friends that are cops that I know from martial arts or whatever, and they want to do this dark sense of humor, man, because they just see, you know, oh, we showed up, and this lady's head was in the middle of the road, and, you know, oh, Jesus Christ.
aubrey marcus
What else do you do but you have to be able to blow off that energy and laugh and keep it light?
joe rogan
Yeah, and then be really weird about it, because, you know, when you see something like a horrible car accident, and you see them every day over and over again, and then you get in your car...
Okay, here we go.
You know, I'm going to enter into this thing that also, you know, I saw what happens when everything goes wrong earlier today, but now I'm just going to go about my...
I mean, they see it every day.
I mean, most likely, you know, most days, they're going to see something fucked up, especially if you're in L.A. If you're a cop in L.A., Jesus Christ, what the fuck do those guys see every day?
aubrey marcus
That's why I kind of, from the cops that I've interacted with, the more heavy shit that goes on in the neighborhood, usually the cooler the cop is when they pull you over for something stupid, you know?
It's like the cop, if you get caught in a really neighborhood where not shit happens and you're going five miles over to the speed limit, they'll be a dick a lot of time.
You know, if you're in a place where they're checking on murders and risking their life and whatever, like, oh, cool, you turn the dome light on and you're giving me your stuff.
All right, cool, man.
Just slow it down.
You know, just got to keep it safe out here.
And they'll let you off, you know, whereas the other cops are just like, oh, look at you, because their fucking calibration is off.
Obviously a generalization, but I tend to see that.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's hard to be a cop, man.
It really is.
And people get mad at me on this podcast for defending cops.
You know, I had a cop fucking shoot my dog.
They were looking for weed.
I know I've heard those stories.
I've seen the videos.
I know there's cops that are cunts.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, it happens.
joe rogan
There's definitely cops that are cunts.
But I just think, overall, it's an insanely hard job that gets zero reward and it builds up a resentment.
Human beings don't like being resented.
They don't like that feeling of resentment.
They don't like resenting people.
They don't like the animosity.
They just don't.
We're not designed to absorb animosity well.
And, you know, that animosity that cops receive and...
aubrey marcus
When every good person generally looks at you and says, oh, fuck the fucking cops, because you're always just buzz killing whatever they're doing, they're put in a terrible spot having to defend these weed laws and psychedelic laws and, you know...
Even some of the alcohol laws, you know, for a 20-year-old who wants to fucking drink some beers in his house or whatever.
joe rogan
How about ticket quotas?
aubrey marcus
Yeah, ticket quotas.
All of these cunty things they have to do, you know, causes people to despise.
Imagine if none of those laws existed and cops were only there for the stuff that you really wanted them there for.
People would love the cops.
Ah, fucking sweet.
Cops are here.
Rape, murder, crime, thievery.
You'd be pumped and be like, yes, the cops are here.
Awesome.
They're around.
I love it when the cops are around.
But because they have to enforce these terrible laws that you know are bullshit and are just fucking up your day, you know, raising revenue or, you know, even worse, trying to bust you for exploring your own consciousness, you kind of fucking hate them and resent them.
joe rogan
You know what we could do that would crush almost every police department all across the country?
Everybody just drive the speed limit and obey all traffic laws.
It would destroy them because they're so used to pulling in X amount of money per month that if we could go a few months, just a few months, of no traffic stops ever...
People, literally, they would just start false flagging people.
They would have to.
They would go after you and they would set up a fake crime and then arrest you for it.
Sort of like the war on drugs.
Sort of like the DEA would do.
What would they do if everybody stopped selling weed?
They would find retards and talk them into selling them weed.
And then arrest them.
That's what they would do.
If everybody just totally stopped selling weed, would the DEA go out of business?
The fuck it would.
If all these Mexican drug cartels said, listen, man, you know, we did some ayahuasca, and we've got a different point of view, and, man, it's not cool to harm people.
So look, we made a lot of money.
We're just getting out of the business.
We're not selling any more weed.
And then everyone in America said, you know what, man?
Grow your own weed.
I'm not selling any weed.
That's it.
We're done.
There's no one else to bust.
No one's selling weed.
There's no one to bust.
What would they do?
They would set people up, man.
They would keep their job.
An organism would preserve its identity, and it would preserve its life.
It would preserve its existence.
And the only way to preserve your existence is you've got to arrest motherfuckers.
If we didn't have any traffic violations at all for a few months, it would bankrupt most police departments.
Isn't that insane?
They're dependent on crime.
At least this petty crime of parking and speeding and not stopping at stoplights.
aubrey marcus
And these private prisons would start to crumble if you took away all of the inmates who were there for these drug charges.
And that was a good point.
There's a documentary, The House I Live In, and they make a great...
A great case for that, how all these private prison systems need to throw these people in prison at these overwhelmingly high levels compared to the rest of the world, is they're surviving like an organism.
Like all these other cunty big corporations, they're like an organism that's going to survive at fucking any cost.
joe rogan
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
And it doesn't have to be like that.
You don't have to be that type of organism, but it requires some consciousness at the fucking brain of the organism to make sure that it's not.
joe rogan
Well, and it's so blatant, too.
When you find out that these people that need these jobs lobby to make sure that these jobs are in place, and the way they do that is to make sure that things are illegal, so they can arrest people.
Like, the policemen's, the guards, the prison guards' union...
They make sure that they spend money to make sure that drugs stay illegal.
They work actively.
They spend money on making sure that marijuana is illegal.
Who would do that?
Who would do that based on the facts at hand?
Someone who profits from that.
Someone who profits from drugs being illegal.
And the way they profit is, more people get arrested and then they keep their job as a prison guard.
That is slavery, no matter how you slice it.
That is just a tricky way of being a slave master.
What you're doing is you're figuring out this real sneaky way to enforce slavery.
And everybody says, it's not slavery, it's a choice.
You don't want to follow the law.
Shut up, stupid.
Shut your fucking internal dialogue right now, because the law is just some shit that people wrote down.
Nobody wants marijuana to be illegal but idiots.
No one.
When you look at the actual facts behind it, if you can't argue the facts, then there's no conversation.
And when the LD50, which is a lethal dose at 50%, meaning if there's 20 of us, we all take the same amount, half of us would be dead.
What's that number?
1,500 pounds in 15 minutes.
Okay, we're done here, right?
We're done here.
Don't have to worry about that.
Okay, what else you got?
Drano.
People are drinking Drano.
Yeah, don't do that.
Okay, yeah, let's make that not cool.
You can't sell Drano drinks.
What the fuck is wrong with people?
But the idea that someone would lobby to keep marijuana illegal, that's where you see how laws...
And things that are written down on paper can really fuck with people because it becomes doctrine.
It becomes law.
What it becomes is this rigid thing that can't be worked around.
It doesn't have any flexibility.
There's no gray area.
It is this or it is that.
aubrey marcus
And you end up with this almost doctrine that's based on some...
It's like faith.
It's like a new religion.
It's like saying that...
You know, the urges to have sex inside you are masturbate or evil and you need to go to the church.
Okay, you made something that fucking makes sure that everybody feels guilty and everybody needs a priest because everybody's going to want to touch their genitals.
So you just figured something out, a way to fucking hack the system so that you get everybody in some form of psychic or mental slavery.
And in the prison system, I've never heard that analogy, but you're fucking absolutely right.
It's like you're enslaving them for your own profit.
joe rogan
It's sick.
Yeah, they're actively making sure that people are in jail.
They're making sure that there's laws in place that will ensure that more people will get arrested.
You know, there's a movement, and the movement is, well, there's ethical considerations when it comes to private prisons and laws, and also laws where there's no victim.
Victim is, shut up!
Shut up!
I need a job.
I need to keep my family fat.
unidentified
So what we're going to do is we're going to lobby to make sure drugs are illegal.
joe rogan
Drugs are bad for families.
And so they have this rhetoric.
And this rhetoric fuels the debate.
And the laws get passed.
Or the congressman gets greased.
Or whatever the fuck happens.
And then the laws stay the same.
Or even tighten down in some cases.
More people go to jail.
And these fat cunts profit.
Which is so strange.
Because it's...
It's as easily definable as slavery as anything that's ever existed.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, you look at it.
I can't help but draw the parallels to religion.
So religion, you get tithed or whatever.
You have to pay 10% or whatever the fuck amount.
So you're paying for the church, always from the bottom.
And then you look at the means that they went to make sure that everybody ascribed.
Well, burning people at a stake who didn't believe, that's a pretty good way to ensure that you're going to get 10% of that person's money.
And then making sure that they're guilty always, 24 fucking 7, because you've made the urge to have sex, which is like the urge to eat or take a dump.
It's not going to go away.
You made that a sin.
And the only way to absolve it is to get the priest.
Well, yeah.
All right.
You're going to make a fucking lot of money doing that.
You know what?
Whereas if the priests were cool and, you know, maybe as if Jesus's teachings were intended and we're like, hey, you can find this anywhere you want.
You got to look inside.
You find the truth.
About God inside yourself and through love and through all of these things, you know, people would be like, hey, thanks, brother.
And they're not going to give you 10% and let you do all this crazy shit.
You know, it's just manipulation.
Manipulation for profit.
joe rogan
I think the good churches probably do 10%.
The bad churches pass around baskets and they're constantly begging and asking for...
I mean, who knows what?
Do you remember when...
Who was the fucking preacher?
Was it Benny Hinn that had a Rolls Royce and he said that God wanted him to drive a Rolls Royce?
Doesn't surprise me.
One of those motherfuckers that was like, that is so bold.
God wanted you to drive a Rolls Royce.
aubrey marcus
They just made shit up.
I was looking at a horrible experience going to a dungeon of the Inquisition when I was in Italy.
One of the darkest places I've ever seen.
Even the fucking ideas involved in some of these things.
And how many of them involved your fucking penis and your vagina was shocking.
Like 30% of the tortures involved that.
And if they didn't want to do that, then rape...
It was a way to cast the devils out and punish people as well.
So if you were a priest and an inquisitor, you could rape someone in order to get it out after you tortured and mutilated their genitals.
Okay, that sounds pretty good.
That's on the holy path.
joe rogan
And even in 2014, there's parts of Africa where people are regularly burned to death for being witches.
There's a bunch of videos of it online of people convincing people that they're witches or that someone has bewitched.
A spell is cast under them and families are literally selling everything they have and forcing themselves into indentured servitude to pay for a witch doctor to cure their children of being witches.
It's a serious, serious issue that they have over there in 2014. This day and age.
Ideologies, man.
Ideologies and beliefs are incredibly strong things.
And it's so easy to manipulate people because we don't know.
We literally, all of us, the giant mass of us, have no idea what the fuck is going on.
You know as much about what life is all about as anyone who's ever lived, ever.
And that's really hard for people to swallow.
So when we come along someone that claims to know something, they take the place of where our parents were when we were children.
When you were a child and you knew almost nothing, your parents knew more than you.
So you could go to them and they steered you right, and that's how you got to be alive today.
And the more fear that you lived with growing up, the more readily you'll accept that position.
The more terrified you'll be and insecure you'll be.
You have not found personal sovereignty.
So all of a sudden, religion comes along.
And fills up this spot where your daddy used to be.
Where your mommy used to be.
And religion tells you.
And I don't mean just any religion.
I mean witchcraft.
I mean everything.
Scientology.
Fill in the blank.
You name it.
No one has the answers.
So when someone comes along and they tell you not only that they have the answers, but that they need your money.
And they need a lot of it.
And you've got to behave in very specific ways that don't make any sense.
Like, don't jerk off.
aubrey marcus
Yeah.
You know, the only thing that you can count on is stuff that you can reliably find out yourself.
Any great spiritual teacher is going to basically send you on your own quest for knowledge and let you come up with your own truth.
Because if it's not reproducible by yourself...
It's probably bullshit.
You know, if you can't get there doing a psychedelic, meditating, going in the tank, trying to actually pursue, you know, this quest for knowledge and you can't come to that conclusion, I say most likely you should discard it.
If someone's just trying to force feed it down your brain, it should be reproducible.
You should be able to get there if you try.
joe rogan
It's also an interactive experience.
It's not like someone gives you information and then, boom, you're a better person.
No, you have to be on a quest to be a better person.
Someone has to say something that resonates with you.
You have to be able to internalize what they're saying.
You have to be able to analyze what they're saying.
You have to be able to absorb what they're saying.
You have to think about your own life in a lot of ways.
You've got to do a lot of work.
It's not as simple as someone tells you what's up and then you know.
That's almost like winning the lottery.
It's like, you know, all of a sudden you have this money.
Okay, now what?
Well, you're going to spend it.
You're fucking crazy.
You didn't earn that shit.
You don't know how you got there.
If somebody gives you the perfect knowledge, it's going to be like, wow, that totally makes sense.
And then, pfft, off to do heroin.
You know?
Yeah, man, I couldn't help myself.
I just need that crack.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, it's not real.
It doesn't have value to it.
joe rogan
You've got to be searching.
You've got to be searching to clean up your own life.
That's one of the things they say about people when it comes to getting clean.
People that are abusing drugs or alcohol.
Getting clean and sober, you have to hit your rock bottom where you realize you've got to do something about your life.
Until you realize it, all the people in the world telling you to get your shit together, it's not going to matter.
It doesn't mean anything.
You're just going to placate them.
You know what, man?
You're right.
I'm done, man.
I'm done.
Done fucking using, man.
I'm done.
Meanwhile, as soon as you get away from them, you're calling up your dealer.
Eddie Bravo had an ex that had a meth problem.
And he didn't know about it.
And he found out about it.
Because she didn't know he was home or something like that, and he was listening to a phone call, and he couldn't fucking believe it.
I think that was what happened.
But when he listened to it, he was like, holy shit.
Living with this chick, had no idea she was doing meth, and then he leaves, and she's like, yeah, what do you got?
I need to get some.
I need to get high right now.
What do you got?
And he was like, what?
And then he sort of figured it out and then confronted her, but didn't know.
Had no idea.
And you know, tell her, hey, you know, you gotta stop doing this.
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
I'm fucking done.
Done with that shit.
Is he gone?
Okay, good.
I need to get some fucking meth right now, okay?
Not yesterday.
Not in an hour.
I need it now.
Until that person says, hey, I gotta stop doing meth.
I don't want to be this person.
I'm gonna test my will.
I'm gonna change my life.
I'm gonna steer this battleship.
I'm gonna figure out a way off the rocks.
Until that person makes that decision, no movement's gonna take place.
That's why I fucking hate talking with people when they start talking to me about losing weight.
I think what I'm going to do is just drop...
I guess I just eat late at night.
Hey, just fucking do it, man.
Just stop.
Don't talk to me because you're just jerking off in my face.
That's what you're doing.
This is a form of mental masturbation.
I get it.
You're trying to look for inspiration.
You've got to find it inside of you.
We can have these conversations once...
But if we have them twice, and then three times, and then four times, and then I don't see you for six months and you're fatter, you can go fuck yourself, okay?
I'm done.
I'm not gonna keep doing this, man.
I'm not gonna keep doing this.
You know what you gotta do.
You gotta find something.
And I don't know if free will is real.
Because there's the big philosophical debate.
Is there free will?
Isn't every decision you make based on a variety of things that include genetics, epigenetics, life experiences, you know, what path?
Going left as opposed to going right.
What happened to you before you had any control over your life when you were a baby?
Your whole personality is formed by the time you were two.
You start factoring in, get into that sort of philosophical debate.
That's all good in the hood.
That's all cool in the gang.
But I know for a fact that some people change.
So, either you're going to be one of those motherfuckers that changes, or you're not going to be one of those motherfuckers that changes.
You can get philosophical all day long and say, there is no free will, and I'm not going to do it because there's no free will, and hey, I'm just happy being me.
aubrey marcus
What a good way to let yourself off the hook there.
joe rogan
It's exactly what it is.
You're being a bitch.
And I'm here to let you know.
That's what I'm here for.
You're being a bitch, please.
I'm here to let you know.
aubrey marcus
You know, I think William James, because I studied a lot of philosophy, and his take on the free will argument was one of my favorites.
It was like, I don't know if there is free will or not, but my life is a hell of a lot better if I believe it is true.
And I'm going to be fucking making decisions for myself that are going to benefit my life, and I'm going to act sure as shit as if there is free will.
Just watch me.
And that was it.
It was like, whatever you guys philosophers want to argue about, fine.
That's cool.
Good for you.
But I say that there is, just because it's better for me, and I'm going to fucking make shit happen.
joe rogan
I know there is.
You know how I know there is?
Alarm clocks, bitch.
It's that fucking simple.
I exercise my will and determination with alarm clocks.
Because when alarm clocks go off, I fucking get up.
And I get up not just because, oh, I know I have no free will, this is just what I do.
No, I do it on purpose.
I know I do it.
I know it's hard to do.
I know I do that.
And I could just shut it off, you know?
I could just fucking shut it off, unplug the phone in the hotel and sleep for a couple days if I want to.
I'll fucking call everybody in a few days.
They'll be fine.
They'll freak out a little bit, but if I want to do that, I'll do it.
Yeah, you can do it.
Do whatever the fuck you want to do, man.
aubrey marcus
I know.
I know.
In a different way, and that's just from my own experiences of separating myself from that robotic mind and just becoming that higher part of yourself.
And that is the part of you that really does have free will.
There's this higher consciousness that can stop everything.
Just say the whole thing.
Throw the fucking brakes on.
And then make some decisions.
And maybe there's winds that blow, influences, currents that are going to shape different ideas of thought.
But man, when you're in that state and you can really feel connected to that person driving your ship, you know there's free will.
Because you can fucking feel it.
joe rogan
There's something.
You can decide to be a better person.
You absolutely can.
People have been doing it from the beginning of time.
You can better yourself.
And that's one of the reasons why inspirational people are so important.
Because you can make choices based on inspiration.
That is free will defined.
The thing we're talking about, about being inspired by people, surrounding yourself with positive people, using that positivity to...
Reinforce your own life and inspire your own life.
That is free will.
That is free will broken down to its most beneficial aspect.
The most beneficial aspect of free will is the ability to choose to better yourself, to be influenced by positive things, whether it's love or whatever it is.
Well, what if those things didn't happen?
You wouldn't have free will because it's not free will.
It's just you reacting to your environment.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Everybody says that's weak, by the way.
You ever notice that?
It's not a bunch of fucking savage champions that don't believe in free will.
No, they all tell you.
You have to test your will.
You have to test it.
And people who have never truly tested their will, if you never truly tried to run up that mountain with that 130-pound rock on your back, if you never really tried to do jiu-jitsu and tried to do battle with another skilled person for 20 fucking minutes where your heart's ready to explode and your chest and your fucking arms are made out of rubber, You don't know about pushing yourself.
You don't.
You don't.
You haven't really tested yourself.
You've just gotten in your car and driven to your cubicle every day and put in your hours, and then you want to talk shit.
But that's not how life works.
The way life works is you get your shit-talking license when you accomplish something.
And ironically speaking, once you've accomplished something, you're least likely to want to talk shit.
unidentified
That's it.
aubrey marcus
That's the irony of it all.
joe rogan
And by talking shit, I mean bragging.
And there is recounting special experiences that are fascinating.
I love talking to martial artists that talk about the greatest victories I love talking to.
And that doesn't mean they're bragging.
It doesn't mean don't talk about accomplishments.
But most people know the difference between enacting and...
Re-enacting experiences and pulling their lessons out of those experiences.
And people who are just trying to pump themselves up.
And when you're around someone who's just trying to pump themselves up and they're bullshitting, it's a gross, oily feeling.
aubrey marcus
It comes from a need deep inside to fill up some void they fill in their own mind, in their own ego, in their own...
So that need requires positive reinforcement from other people, but that's going to be a vacuous hole that they're never going to fill.
And so unless they've already conquered that, they're not going to be that good.
You have to get past that to really be one of the true masters, unless there's a rare occasion where, as we said before, someone's raw ability is just so unbelievably savage on another level that they do get to be ostensibly a champion.
You know, without actually having gone through it.
I'm sure there are cases of that where someone is just so fucking gifted that they've gotten away with not actually facing the demons on the journey.
But that's super rare.
You know, I've never encountered it.
joe rogan
I think in certain fight sports, it's actually possible to get incredibly proficient and not be a true master of yourself.
Mike Tyson, I think, is one of the greatest examples ever.
Mike Tyson has come out and said that he was on coke through a great part of his career like he was doing coke and fighting I mean and he was Clearly out of control whether or not he raped that Desiree woman who was accused of raping.
I don't know I I wasn't there.
But whatever that was, you have to take into consideration a couple of things.
With that particular case, one, she had falsely accused someone of rape just a year before.
Sure.
That's one.
And two, she took her panty shield off when she got into the bathroom.
Both of those things don't look so good for her.
Doesn't mean that she didn't say no and he didn't rape her.
So who knows what actually did happen.
But take away that one experience and just look at all the crazy shit that guy did.
He was a maniac.
He was buying Bentleys and Rolls Royces every day and punched Mitch Blood Green at a fucking Harlem haberdashery at 2 o'clock in the morning.
He wasn't living like some fucking stoic monk.
aubrey marcus
You saw that show that he put on?
What was that?
unidentified
Tyson?
joe rogan
I didn't see it.
unidentified
It's pretty good.
joe rogan
I heard it's amazing.
aubrey marcus
It's awesome.
joe rogan
My point is, he was the baddest motherfucker of all time while he was doing all his craziness.
But the thing that he did do is insane amounts of work, insane intensity, insane focus and determination, and a deep, deep, deep knowledge of his craft.
A huge knowledge.
I mean, the reason why he had that high top fade where he shaved the sides of his head, because that's what Jack Dempsey did.
He watched Jack Dempsey from the time he was a fucking child, like constantly imitated and mimicked the movements of Jack Dempsey.
Got much better, in my opinion.
He's way better than Jack Dempsey.
You watch Jack Dempsey move around.
See if we can pull that up.
Jamie, pull up a video of Jack Dempsey.
This is a perfect example of how someone can be inspired by someone who sucks compared to them.
aubrey marcus
Because Tyson was just this spring-loaded.
Like you took a piece of metal and you just fucking bent it back all the way.
joe rogan
He was boxing when it hit this new, incredible level where so many things were involved.
First of all, there was decades and decades and decades, over a hundred years of knowledge when it came to what was effective, what was not effective.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
This is not a fight.
This is like sparring.
aubrey marcus
A lot of people watching sparring.
joe rogan
No, it must be.
Well, a lot of people would get to watch that guy train.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's a fight.
That's definitely a fight.
Jack Dempsey was a fucking animal.
Look at him.
There he is.
He's wailing on this motherfucker.
aubrey marcus
Kind of punches like Badr Hari does now.
Just fucking everything into it.
joe rogan
Just crushing you.
Everything trying to crush you.
He was a hard-hitting motherfucker, too, Jack Dempsey.
Mike Tyson.
Oh, Jesus.
And they hovered over you back then after they knocked you down.
Look how bloody that dude is.
Oh, shit, son.
Back then, when they knocked you down, they stood over you.
And every time you got up, they'd punch you again.
aubrey marcus
No way.
joe rogan
Yeah, watch.
He hovers over him.
There was no standing eight counts back then.
They would drop you and then when you would get on one knee and as soon as your knee lifted off the ground they'd fucking punch you in the face again.
Which, it sounds gangster, but look at MMA. MMA, you go to the ground, they fucking mount your face and punch you into oblivion.
That's way crazier.
So it's funny that people are like, no way!
They punched him in the head while they were down?
Yeah, they hovered over you.
aubrey marcus
What do you think about the idea that if they just took off all the gloves for all this parts to be wasted?
joe rogan
It would be safer.
aubrey marcus
It's pretty scientifically clear, right?
joe rogan
Now, pull up Mike Tyson versus Marvis Frazier.
This is...
In my opinion, the best version of Mike Tyson.
The scariest version of Mike Tyson.
When Mike Tyson fought Marvis Frazier, it was when he was on his way to the heavyweight title.
He had not defeated Trevor Burbick yet, but he was on his way.
But just pull it up so you could just see the fight.
Because the fight only lasts for about fucking ten seconds.
But he swarms that motherfucker in a way that to this day is the most terrifying beating I've ever seen anybody give anybody inside a boxing ring.
Because Marvis Frazier has zero chance.
He wasn't a hungry, evil fighter.
He was the son of one of the greatest of all time and didn't really have it himself.
And he was fighting a guy who was going to be the greatest heavyweight of all time in his greatest time when he's surging and coming up Looking for a shot at the title.
And he just corners Marvis Frazier here and just unfucking loads.
Bing, bing, bing, bing.
Every punch is perfect.
Massive amounts of torque and muscle behind every fist to his face.
And that one combination puts Marvis Frazier out of boxing for the rest of his life.
I mean, I think he boxed again after that, but he was a shadow of himself.
Everyone knew he was never going to be the heavyweight champion, and he was never going to be able to beat this fucking monster.
I mean, he didn't offer any resistance whatsoever.
And look at these combinations.
He's so accurate.
See, that's way better than Jack Dempsey.
See, my point is, like, you look at Jack Dempsey, who inspired Mike Tyson, and Mike Tyson is fucking way better than Jack Dempsey.
I mean, way, way, way, way, way better.
Sam Kinison was inspired by Lenny Bruce.
But if you watch Lenny Bruce and watch Sam Kinison, you go, oh, Jesus Christ.
Like, Lenny Bruce, if you, like...
Try to watch it today as a 2014 comedian.
Like, if he was a guy, like, this is a guy I heard about, his name is Lenny Bruce, he'd be like, oh my god, this guy's boring.
He's so boring.
He's ain't obvious shit.
It wasn't obvious shit in 1950. In 1950, it was fucking crazy, groundbreaking stuff.
I mean, he was saying things that nobody had ever even thought you would hear on stage before.
And he was going to jail for them.
And that guy went to jail countless times just for profanity, just for speaking his mind and talking about the language that we use.
I mean, he would use profanity in talking about how odd it is that we have these restrictions on language.
aubrey marcus
You hear so many people talk about how they're building off the backs of the giants from times ago, you know, from...
Whatever it is in science and art and sport and all of that, you build off of what is created before and make it generally better.
You get to take what they knew, and the best people do this, take what they knew, take how far they went, and then take it even farther.
And then you think about some things like you look at Graham Hancock's work and then you wonder, well, what happens if everything just gets fucking taken away and you have to start over?
What if all the UFC tapes completely went out of people's consciousness?
This whole generation, it's only 25 years, this generation gets wiped out, a new one comes up.
They've got to figure that shit out all over again.
And they're going to suck for a long time.
joe rogan
For a long time.
aubrey marcus
Because they're not going to have that...
That to build off of, whereas now, you know, people are just going to get more and more efficient and capable at this art.
joe rogan
Yeah, if people had to figure out how to do a wheel kick from scratch.
aubrey marcus
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
And land it, spin and hit someone in the head with your heel.
aubrey marcus
It would take forever for them to even think of it, you know?
joe rogan
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
I mean, it would take a long time.
joe rogan
Or the idea that you could kick someone in the face.
You could pick up your leg and kick someone in the face, like, what?
No, you can kick them when they're down.
You can kick them when they're up here.
Get out of here.
That's not even fucking possible.
And then you show the Donald Cerrone video and you're like, get the fuck out of here.
How did he figure that out?
He fucking hit him with his shin.
Whoa!
And people who don't do martial arts, sometimes I have friends that have come to the UFC and they have no idea what he did to the guy.
Like Steve Rinella, this guy Bagutinov was fighting this dude who was going for...
John Lineker.
John Lineker was going for a leg lock on Bogutinov, and it was at the end of the fight.
But Bogutinov is a sambo master, and Lineker is more of a striker than anything.
His jiu-jitsu is sort of so-so.
And so Bogutinov was like laughing that this guy was trying to heel hook him.
aubrey marcus
Waved his finger or something like that?
joe rogan
So he stood up.
He's standing there while Lineker is going after his leg.
He's not even defending the leg lock, and he's like going like this, standing there and flexing.
And it's ridiculous.
And so my friend was like, how did he hold that guy down?
And Rinella thought that Bagutinov was holding him down with his leg.
He was pinning him with his leg.
aubrey marcus
Like a full champion pose?
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm like, no, he wasn't actually pinning him with his leg.
He's like, how is that guy pinning that guy with his leg?
But for a person who doesn't ever do martial arts, they look at some shit and they don't know what's happening.
They're like, how did he hit him with his shin?
What the heck?
That guy, he flipped around and he hit the guy with his shin?
Like, they couldn't even recreate it.
If you showed someone, and they didn't have any knowledge of martial arts at all, and you showed them Edson Barbosa versus Terry Edom, where Edson Barbosa hits him with this wheel kick from hell.
Like, one of the worst wheel kicks I've ever seen anybody absorb in any combat sport ever.
I mean, the guy just got...
Terry Edom looked like he got shot.
Like, he got shot with a sniper.
Just, boom!
He stiffens up and is down like his head exploded.
If you show that to somebody, they'd be like, what did he do?
He flipped around through the air.
The guy flew through the air and he hit him with his foot.
How did he hit him with his foot?
Like a crazy, just jumping through the air.
You wouldn't even know what the guy did.
aubrey marcus
I saw that happen, actually, when I think it was Hoist Gracie.
joe rogan
Here it is right here.
aubrey marcus
Look at this.
joe rogan
Boom!
Are you fucking kidding me?
aubrey marcus
Like a sniper rifle.
joe rogan
You don't ever land a more perfect wheel kick.
Boom!
Look at that.
I mean, that shit is flawless technique.
And he hit him in the perfect spot.
And he hit him as Edom is moving forward.
Like, Edom steps to him, and he just runs right into that heel.
aubrey marcus
I saw that thing happen.
I think it was Hoist Gracie fighting.
Maybe it was Dan Severn or somebody, but the big guy was on top of Hoist.
joe rogan
Hoist and Dan Severn.
He triangled him.
aubrey marcus
And he triangled him.
And I had a bunch of people over at the house.
My family loved these things.
We watched them from the start.
And people were like...
unidentified
What the fuck happened?
What the fuck happened?
aubrey marcus
Like, they couldn't possibly imagine that the guy on top, the big guy on top, gave up.
unidentified
Why?
aubrey marcus
Why?
How did this?
What?
I don't get it.
I don't get it.
You mean you can be on top and lose?
You know, it was like full mayhem.
Nobody understood it at all.
joe rogan
It didn't make any sense.
unidentified
No fucking clue.
aubrey marcus
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's like, what, his legs were around the guy's neck?
aubrey marcus
Yeah.
joe rogan
Did he make him suck his cock?
Did he make him suck his cock?
aubrey marcus
Any theory was valid at that point.
Nobody knew.
joe rogan
I remember watching...
UFC 2 was the first one that I ever watched.
I watched it on videotape.
It was a VHS tape.
And I had just come to Hollywood.
It was in like 94. And I was out here doing TV. And I saw at the video store they had UFC 2. I don't even think UFC 1 was available.
There was some sort of licensing issue.
You could only rent UFC 2 at the time.
And so I got a hold of it and I watched it.
And I had been a martial artist since I was a young boy.
So watching this, all of a sudden I was like, oh my god.
Everything I know is useless.
I really had this feeling like, if that guy got a hold of me, I'm fucking going to get strangled, just like this big giant guy.
He's fucking up these big giant guys.
He armbarred chemo.
He's fucking up these guys that are way bigger than me, that I wouldn't want to fight.
I'm like, whoa, how's he doing that?
The guy was my size.
He was 170 pounds at the time.
I was like...
How the fuck is he beating these guys?
Immediately, I was like, I gotta learn jujitsu.
And then as soon as I went to jujitsu, I got mauled over and over and over again.
It completely got my ass kicked, where I thought, well, I've been a martial artist for a fucking long time.
When I get in there, I'm gonna learn easier than most people.
No.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
You're not going to go in there with any...
I had a little bit of wrestling from high school, so that helped a little bit.
I kind of knew about manipulating bodies, and I knew about leverage, but I didn't know any of the techniques.
I didn't know what was going on, especially with the gi.
Dudes are just grabbing my collar, and I'm like, what's going on here?
You know, like, twisting it around my neck and fucking holding onto it to put my arm into position when they could snap it in half.
And you're like, oh, God, I'm so vulnerable.
Like, just leaving there, I feel like, fuck, I'm so vulnerable.
I didn't know I was as vulnerable.
I thought it was way tougher than this.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, it changes the world.
joe rogan
Changed everything.
These techniques, you don't even know what a guy's doing to you.
And when it's happening to you, it's even more confusing because you can't see what's going on sometimes when you're getting strangled or when you're getting armbarred.
There's a mass of legs and arms and tangle and you're trying to grapple and all of a sudden those legs are across your face.
You're not even seeing what's happening and you're getting armbarred.
You're not sure, especially in the beginning.
You don't recognize the dangerous positions.
You don't know when to defend or even how to defend.
So when you get stuck in these spots, it's literally a mystery while your arm is screaming in pain.
Like, why did my fucking shoulder...
unidentified
Ow!
joe rogan
What the fuck happened there?
My shoulder!
Why is my hand behind my back?
unidentified
Ah!
aubrey marcus
I remember I grappled Marvio Charles, who was like a jiu-jitsu silver medalist in Brazil.
I was in Florianopolis.
And I go to just, I was there, so I was like, alright, well fuck, I'll grapple with somebody really good.
So I go there, and I never really wrestled with, grappled with somebody who had a good butterfly guard, like a really good one.
And I was just floating along, getting armbarred and choked constantly.
I felt like I never fucking got to the ground, you know?
It was just pushing and pulling and lifting and flipping.
I was like, this is a fucking new level.
joe rogan
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
This is a whole new game.
joe rogan
Especially with the gi.
aubrey marcus
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because with the gi, they can hold onto your collars, and they hold onto the end of your sleeves.
And, you know, those two things.
One hand on the collar, one hand on the sleeve.
aubrey marcus
Man, you're going- Both feet under your hips.
joe rogan
Feet under your hips, so you're flying up in the air.
So you got one arm completely locked out.
You're trying to defend with this arm.
aubrey marcus
Jesus Christ.
joe rogan
This arm's- Your fucking neck is turned sideways.
This guy's got a forearm across your neck, holding on tight to your collar.
aubrey marcus
It's like you had a video of what happened to me.
That was it.
joe rogan
Oh, dude, I've been there.
Jean-Jacques does that to me still, and I'm a black belt.
I roll with Jean-Jacques.
I'm up in the air, man.
When you feel someone who's really good at getting those butterfly guards in and flipping you here and there, it's a skill that you develop, the ability to lift someone up and manipulate them.
And a lot of people don't understand How high a level the top level jujitsu guys have achieved because you only see jujitsu in MMA and jujitsu in MMA is a lot it's actually like less advanced than kickboxing in MMA because there's some there's some really like high-level kickboxing that you see occasionally in MMA with elite fighters and also kickboxing in MMA is a tad more dangerous Then kickboxing and kickboxing because the gloves are smaller.
You can't protect the same way.
Like, kickboxing, they can go in this shell.
They have this, like, Badr Hari is really good at that.
He holds up real high with this shell, and they move forward, and they throw kicks and punches to come back to that shell.
But that shell in MMA, punches still get through.
And one will do you in.
It's not like a boxing punch with that big glove.
It's a different sort of thunderous effect that a really hard puncher with an MMA glove has on.
But when there's no striking, then you get to see what real high-level jiu-jitsu is all about.
And you get to see a guy like a Jacare or a Hodger Gracie or a Krohn Gracie or Marcelo Garcia, these super, super high-level guys going at it.
And you get to see jiu-jitsu that is on a level that you almost never see when there's punches involved and kicks involved.
So to someone who doesn't know what really high-level jiu-jitsu looks like, when you think you kind of have an idea of what the baseline is, well, you know, I've seen Anderson Silva tap out Chael Sonnen on the ground, so I'm pretty sure I know what jiu-jitsu looks like.
You really don't, because Anderson Silva gets tapped out if he goes to jiu-jitsu tournaments.
There's a video of him getting tapped out while he was a champion.
He got armbarred.
That's the way of the world, man.
There's another level.
The level, the super, super high level jiu-jitsu is fucking wild to watch, because these guys are masters, and they're ninjas, and they're hitting these High-speed moves and countering these moves, and you can watch guys, like, really, like, technical guys, and you're watching these wild rolls, and it's like, Jesus Christ!
aubrey marcus
You know, it's such a beautiful thing that all of these arts kind of got a testing ground, and I wish it could be applied to other things, because just in the way that the UFC made people take the very best from everything, the very best from karate, the very best from taekwondo, the very best from jiu-jitsu, wrestling, All these different things.
Judo.
Everybody contributed a little piece to the puzzle.
Some pieces way bigger.
Obviously, jujitsu's piece of the pie was a big fucking meaty piece of the pie.
But everything had a little point, except for maybe some weird kungfus that probably contributed maybe only the tiniest little sliver of something.
I don't know.
But then in life, people are still, because there isn't that proving ground, with like philosophies and meditation techniques and yoga schools, they get so rigid in defending their way, their dogma of what they think, you know, this is the only way.
Just like martial artists used to be.
My dojo is the only way.
It's the deadly arts.
Blah, blah, blah.
You know, it's a shame that there isn't some way to really have that kind of intercourse where you test every different skill and just use what works.
But, you know, I think we can do that ourselves anyways.
And I think that's the right philosophy.
Take a little bit from all of these great religious philosophies, these schools of thought.
Buddhism, Zen, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam.
Everybody has a little verse.
Some might be fatter piece of the pie for you than others.
But everything has some way to contribute to this.
And all these other techniques, you know, if you like transcendental meditation, okay, maybe that's a big piece, but maybe try some of the other meditation cycles.
Or if you like Bikram yoga, okay, that can be a piece, but try these other things too.
The same thing needs to be applied across the fucking board.
But because there's no way for these people to battle and for people to ostensibly see it and prove it, it doesn't happen.
And you get stuck back in 1970s martial arts where everybody's defending their stupid dojo, when really the best way is a little bit of everything.
joe rogan
Is there a lot of like...
That sort of ideology when it comes to yoga?
aubrey marcus
Fuck yeah, Bikram yoga.
It's like that.
joe rogan
Wasn't that guy crazy, though?
aubrey marcus
Yeah, he's crazy.
He wears gold chains.
joe rogan
But isn't he accused of a bunch of sexual assaults and shit?
aubrey marcus
I have no idea.
I have no personal knowledge of Mr. Bikram.
joe rogan
Pull that up, Jamie, because I know that Bikram yoga guy.
aubrey marcus
I did talk to the guys.
joe rogan
Hold on.
aubrey marcus
I did talk to some guys who knew.
joe rogan
This is in front of me.
aubrey marcus
But yeah, those guys, they're so rigid about that being the only way, and it's 18 postures, and it's at this fucking degree temperature, and everything else is bullshit.
You're like, uh, okay, if you say so.
But I kind of like doing some other shit too.
joe rogan
Sexual harassment scandal rocks yoga community after Bikram, the dude's name is Bikram Chudhori, I don't know if I'm saying that right, is slapped with a lawsuit.
And apparently the dude drives Bentleys and shit, and he's a super baller.
He's a super baller.
He's a handsome guy.
He's probably got a mad yoga pussy.
Imagine the yoga pussy that guy gets with his little speedos on, doing stretches with chicks, and it's all about releasing and pressure and positions and just sliding it into your pussy.
Look at him there with two hot chicks.
He probably fucked both of them.
He probably did splits and fucked them.
aubrey marcus
Who was he standing on a chick in that one?
joe rogan
Yeah, that's insane.
Wow.
Let Joey Diaz try that.
I'm not impressed.
I'm impressed with his age, though.
The guy's 67 years old.
He's still getting sexual harassment.
That means he's still active.
Congratulations.
It's yoga.
It's yoga.
Fucking asshole.
He's got good kundalini energy, Joe.
aubrey marcus
Good kundalini.
joe rogan
It's clean.
It's clear.
He must be a real shithead.
He started Bikram in the early 70s, and now it's turned into this gigantic fucking huge movement.
It's really good, though.
That's the problem with Bikram Yoga.
I mean, as much of a piece of shit as this guy may or may not be, I never met him, obviously.
I mean, who knows?
These people who are saying he sexually harassed him, they could be fucking nutters.
aubrey marcus
You don't know.
joe rogan
I don't know.
But, you know, the guy, it's...
It's been around.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, it's good.
joe rogan
There's a benefit to it.
aubrey marcus
There's some other really good hot yoga, too.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, there's so many positions in yoga, and the thing about Bikrams is they have this very specific routine that they take you through.
It's very specific.
It's fucking great.
Don't get me wrong.
I love it.
I mean, it's an amazing, amazing workout, and it's amazing for your thought process and your mind.
He likes standing on bitches.
Look at him.
That's fucking weird.
aubrey marcus
In the Christ pose?
joe rogan
Yeah.
No, I think that's warrior one or something.
aubrey marcus
No.
That's fucking Christ pose.
I know a warrior one when I see it.
joe rogan
Warrior six.
aubrey marcus
I'm definitely not.
Warrior six.
Stand on a bitch.
joe rogan
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
Hit the Christ pose and fuck her.
joe rogan
Guy looks good for 67 though, man.
Must be something to that yoga shit.
I mean, I don't know how old he is.
He's constantly standing on chicks.
And not only that, he wears the grossest Speedos.
aubrey marcus
Yeah.
He's like 200 pounds from looking like a sumo wrestler.
joe rogan
No, I think he's a tiny guy.
I think this is an illusion because he's standing on a small woman.
I don't think he's very big at all.
You know, he's really skinny and, you know, super flexible.
aubrey marcus
Why doesn't he ever stand on any dudes?
Rude.
joe rogan
He'll kick his ass.
Guy weighs eight pounds.
Because he doesn't want to fuck the dudes, too.
He stands on you, puts his stinky feet all over your neck, you're more likely to let him slip his dick inside you.
aubrey marcus
Is that the way it goes?
joe rogan
That's what I think in my fantasy world that I just created with him banging all these chicks for real.
I don't know what the real story is.
He says he's disappointed in the false charges made in this lawsuit but will not comment at this time.
I'm disappointed.
That's my bad Indian accent.
aubrey marcus
It sounded vague.
Very kind of old martial arts movie.
joe rogan
Very vague.
Very vague accent.
But this, yeah, Bikram is very involved.
There's a lot going on with that whole Bikram movement.
unidentified
People love to follow those poses.
aubrey marcus
Yeah.
And that's fine.
And that can be a big fucking piece of your yoga puzzle.
You like that?
Cool.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But don't shit on other people who are finding their own way to do it.
And maybe learn something from them, too.
And try that every once in a while.
Maybe every fucking fourth session you try something new.
joe rogan
You ever do yoga on pot?
aubrey marcus
I have.
It's really good.
That's actually one of the best physical activities to do on pot, in my opinion.
joe rogan
It's the best to me.
That and jiu-jitsu.
But it's right up there with jiu-jitsu.
Because you feel everything in this weird, super-sensitive way, especially eating it.
When you eat it and go through all those yoga movements, Terrence McKenna believed that that's really what yoga was all about.
He said it was all about how to eat cannabis.
He believed that the original origins of yoga were like a cannabis optimization process.
aubrey marcus
It makes sense.
I mean, I naturally, when I smoke or eat, want to stretch, generally.
You know, even if I'm not even thinking about yoga.
unidentified
It feels good.
joe rogan
And your body's aware of what's, you know, your areas that need work.
aubrey marcus
I want to stretch, and if my teeth are dirty, I want to brush my teeth.
You know, those are the things that I feel like when I get high.
joe rogan
My feet stink.
I want to get in the shower.
You don't want to be stinky feet when you're high.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Hey, pull up that video of the drug czar getting yelled at, because I want to hear that.
Because this is not something that would have even happened a few years ago.
This is some new shit, and I'm going to pee, because I've been drinking too much water.
steve cohen
With all due respect to the fellows on the other side, that schizophrenia...
Which my father was a psychiatrist and taught me something about could be described as a party that talks about saving money all the time and being concerned with deficits and being totally driven by that, but not being concerned about saving money when people are in jail for marijuana and mandatory minimums that judges have said were awful.
And for non-violent, first-time offenders who are serving lifetime sentences in jail, costing us $30,000 a year, and the population of jails has gone up 800% in the last 30 years.
That's schizophrenia.
You're concerned about cost and cutting costs, but not when it's jailing a population.
Mr. Botticelli, your hands are tied on Schedule 1, but it is ludicrous, absurd, crazy, to have marijuana in the same level as heroin.
Ask the late Philip Seymour Hoffman if you could.
Nobody dies from marijuana.
People die from heroin.
And every second that we spend in this country trying to enforce marijuana laws is a second that we're not enforcing heroin laws.
And heroin and meth are the two drugs that are ravaging our country.
And every death, including Mr. Hoffman's, is partly the responsibility of the federal government's drug priorities for not putting total emphasis on the drugs that kill, that cause people to be addicted and have to steal to support their habit.
And heroin and meth is where all of your priorities should be.
Heroin is getting into the arms of young people.
And when we put marijuana on the same level as heroin and LSD and meth and crack and cocaine, we are telling young people not to listen to the adults about the ravages and the problems, and they don't listen because they know you're wrong.
With all due respect, you should be listening to scientists.
I understand the parents who are grieved because their child died of an overdose.
They didn't overdose on marijuana.
And you're listening to them rather than the scientists?
Mr. Botticelli, it may go back to A Few Good Men, the movie, Jack Nicholson.
You can't handle the truth.
The truth is, the drug war failed.
Your direction on marijuana is a failure.
Get to dealing and saving kids from heroin overdoses.
Now, you talked about alcohol, and you may have gotten to this.
Cirrhosis of the liver?
Pretty serious thing.
Violence against spouses and women?
People don't smoke marijuana and beat up their wives and girlfriends.
They get drunk, sometimes they beat up their wives and girlfriends.
Maybe the reason there's so many more people smoking marijuana now is because they're not listening.
And maybe they're doing the other drugs too.
But it also shows that the drug war has been a failure.
It's been a serious failure.
unidentified
Boom!
aubrey marcus
That was an ass-kicking.
joe rogan
Not only that, it's a guy from Tennessee.
Mm-hmm.
Representative of Tennessee.
aubrey marcus
Yep.
joe rogan
And you think, like, one of the most conservative states in the country.
aubrey marcus
And he's 100. Bible Belt.
joe rogan
Yeah.
He's old as fuck, too.
steve cohen
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
That's a fucking positive sign.
unidentified
I like it.
joe rogan
Yeah, I like it.
Well, it's unavoidable at this point in time.
It's gotten to this point...
Where there's so much information, so many studies have been done, so much knowledge.
Occasionally they'll throw out a study, you know, some link to schizophrenia or something like that.
Horse shit.
If there was a link to schizophrenia and marijuana, everybody would be schizophrenic because everyone's smoking weed.
I don't mean everyone, but I mean goddamn a lot of people.
aubrey marcus
You know, the thing that's so fucking incredibly frustrating and infuriating is, as part of the criteria for Schedule 1, the drug has to have no medicinal benefit.
NO medicinal benefit.
And countless fucking medicinal benefits are being shown by a lot of these drugs.
I mean, the success rate of them testing things and getting positive results, it's only been recent they've been able to get access to things like psilocybin and even the marijuana studies that they've been able...
They're still hardly ever able to even work with marijuana.
It's one of the toughest ones to work with, talking to the people at MAPS. But they're testing these things, and it's coming back amazingly positive.
You watch something like that Sanjay Gupta completely reversing his policy because he watched some kid who was on 14 fucking pharmaceuticals that were going to kill her, and then she smokes weed because she had epilepsy, smokes weed that has high CBD and is doing better than she ever has in her life.
And he's like, Okay, I'm a fucking, I was a dickhead, I was a doctor, but now I know what fucking happens.
joe rogan
Well, good for him, because he was saying a lot of really dumb shit about weed.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, and he fucking switched his, you look at the facts and you can't help but change your opinion, that there is medicinal benefit, period.
You cannot leave it in that criteria.
joe rogan
It's insane.
It's almost like the perfect question.
It's almost like, how fucked up is this culture?
We're going to give this culture this amazing plant that grows easily, has no issues with toxicity, doesn't kill anybody.
Also, you can eat it.
It provides you with all the essential amino acids.
It's very high in protein.
And you can get high on it.
And when you get high on it, it makes you introspective.
It makes you more sensitive.
It makes food actually taste more delicious.
It makes sex feel better.
It makes your body feel more sensitive.
And it can help you with glaucoma.
And it makes the best paper.
And it makes the...
You just run this laundry list of shit.
You're like, there's no way that could be illegal.
It's the most illegal thing!
It's the most illegal thing in our crazy country.
It's like the perfect question to find out how insane our society is.
aubrey marcus
It's like an insane-o-meter.
joe rogan
One thing that we can say is the most beneficial plant on earth.
It's the marijuana plant.
That's the one.
And that's Schedule 1 drug, the most illegal, amongst the most illegal things you can buy.
aubrey marcus
It's like at the circus where you hit that thing with a mallet and it goes all the way to the top.
That goes all the way to the top of the crazy meter.
joe rogan
But stop and think about how nuts it is that that same drug is also now legal in two states.
These states have gotten so fed up, Washington and Seattle, both two of the most awesome spots in the country, or Washington and Colorado, they've gotten to this point where they're like, you know what?
Fuck you.
It's legal.
We say it's legal.
In our state, it's legal.
Not only that, you can sell it.
In Colorado, they're going gangster.
In Seattle, they're watching Colorado going, what's going to happen to that?
But in Colorado, they're just fucking selling it.
Selling it like crazy.
And then the government's like, yeah, well, you can't put the money in the banks then.
And then eventually, they have revisited that and said, okay, we're going to let people use the banks.
Because it's so much fucking money.
There's so much money.
Like, you're going to keep that money out of the banks?
Are the banks fucking failing?
Don't the banks need money?
What are you guys doing?
Like, you go to this emerging industry, and you better look at it as an industry now, because now it's proven itself.
They made a million dollars in the first fucking hour when they were selling marijuana in Colorado.
They were just fucking going off.
And it's only like 12 stores, and one day they made a million bucks.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, this is a really encouraging sign.
I mean, I think once you start to see water pouring through the dam like this, it's going to break the dam.
The more they resist it and don't go along with it, it's just going to crack it.
I mean, I'm really excited.
joe rogan
It's too much information.
There's too much absolute, irrefutable information.
aubrey marcus
And the cool thing about these states is, you know, if you have real good states' rights, the ability for states to regulate a lot of these things, it's going to be a great way to ensure that some of these draconian, crazy, bullshit laws don't get passed.
Because some states are going to wake up.
You know, in this big nationwide consciousness, it's easier to kind of get enough dummies circled together from everywhere to block something.
But, you know, in one state, you know, you have a lot of more flexibility to actually spread information, create a new kind of vibe and create new rules like they decided they're not supposed to be able to do that.
They're not supposed to be able to say weed is legal, but they just said, we're just fucking doing it.
You know, I don't care if the federal laws say you can't, we're going to do it.
And maybe you could come in with the feds and cause trouble, but, you know, we're going to take that risk.
And I think putting a lot more rights like that back to the states is the way to go.
joe rogan
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, that's the whole reason why the whole state situation was set up in the first place.
The state's rights are supposed to supersede the federal rights.
Or laws, rather.
They're supposed to supersede the federal laws.
And I think we're also seeing this overwhelming wave of information starting to shift the way they interact with us and the way they're forced to deal with certain situations when it comes to world events, like Syria, for example.
When Obama went on TV and was talking about military action for Syria, the whole world went, Boo!
Boo!
You what?
You have to do what?
Why?
Because somebody poisoned people?
Do you know what you've done?
Do you know a million people are dead in Iraq?
Do you know how many people you killed from drones that had nothing to do with the person you were trying to kill?
Shut the fuck up.
No, you don't have to go to Syria.
No, it's not important we invade Syria.
And then they stopped talking about it.
When was the last time you heard Syria in the news?
When was the last time you saw Syria on CNN? When was the last time you saw Syria on Fox News where they were saying the invasion is imminent, the imminent invasion of Syria?
No, no, no, no, no.
It's all gone.
aubrey marcus
People don't want that.
And that's the thing.
That's another thing that people get frustrated with how spineless the politicians are.
But in another way, it's kind of encouraging.
They really have no fucking backbone.
If we really mount up and say, no, that's bullshit.
Don't do that.
We're over it.
And we do that en masse like people did for Syria.
They'll just say, okay, cool.
Because they're going to survive too.
And to survive, they have to get elected.
And I know, oh, vote rigging, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, all right.
Maybe they push things a little bit.
But if it's fucking in mass, they're going to go along with the tide.
We just got to create the tide and make enough motion ourselves, unified, that they have to listen.
And I think we've done that with weed.
It's going to continue to keep going that way.
And we can do that with a lot of other shit too.
joe rogan
Yeah, as long as there's truth in what we're saying.
aubrey marcus
Yeah.
joe rogan
And the marijuana truth is something that seems so impossible and improbable.
There's so much from the moment that it was made illegal, from the whole conspiracy to make it illegal by a guy who was a paper manufacturer and owned newspapers, William Randolph Hearst.
If you read the story of how marijuana was made illegal, I won't bore you with the details, because I've told it on this podcast too many times.
But it's a guy who owned newspapers.
He made a bunch of fucking stories up, and that's how weed became illegal.
And when they made weed illegal, they didn't even know they were making hemp illegal.
Now, they recently passed this farm bill.
Did you see this?
Where they're going to allow states that make hemp growing legal to grow it at universities.
So the universities are going to be allowed to grow hemp.
So in a way, it's sort of making hemp start to become legal.
And I don't know if that's for commercial application.
I don't know what they're going to be able to do with the hemp, but that's even dumber than the weed law.
If you thought the weed law was bad, this hemp thing is even fucking crazier because it is legal.
You just can't grow it.
Which is so fucking stupid.
aubrey marcus
I hear you.
I'm importing a bunch of hemp over fucking the Canadian border every month.
We're getting hemp seeds from Canada because we can't grow it.
joe rogan
It's insane.
aubrey marcus
Do we have shitty soil?
No, we don't have shitty soil.
Our soil is great.
It could grow weed like fucking anybody else in the world.
But nope, we can't do it.
joe rogan
So many farmers would profit.
So many farmers would benefit.
Just like you're seeing this economic boom in Colorado because of these people being able to sell marijuana.
Look at that.
Pot shops in Denver opened door to $478 million in sales.
That's for a year.
Whatever!
$578 million.
And that's just the beginning.
That's just the tip of the iceberg.
aubrey marcus
Those states are going to be balling from the revenue from that.
Balling.
They're going to fucking have cool public areas and parks and art.
The states are going to get cooler and cooler and cooler until finally everybody's like, fuck.
We got to move to one of these cool states.
They got the best parks.
They got the best fucking public works.
Everything's working smooth because they got money and everybody's happy.
And that's what's generally going to happen.
And then the neighboring states are going to be like, God damn, Colorado's fucking got it going on.
And fucking Idaho.
I think Idaho borders Colorado, right?
Idaho's going to be like, fuck this.
We're not going to let Colorado be the ones to win.
So it's going to create this ripple effect where I think it's going to spread.
joe rogan
I fucking love Colorado.
I just love it.
I love that they were the first, you know, them and Washington State, but just Colorado is just, it's such a fucking gangster cowboy state, you know?
It's such a weird combination of Western pioneer people who moved there and really cool people who stayed.
It's like everybody else was going to California and the people that stopped in Colorado went, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Can we just stay here?
Why are you guys going to keep going west, man?
Do you see how beautiful it is here?
Do you really think over there is better?
Come on, man.
Listen, go over there.
Make sure you send me a letter.
Tell me how groovy it is.
I'll be right here.
aubrey marcus
For sure.
joe rogan
When you find a place that's unbelievably physically beautiful, like Colorado, I always think that for some reason that is gonna accumulate a lot of intelligent and cool people.
Because there's a benefit in having beauty around you.
There's a reason why people spend so much money on art.
Why do people dress so nice?
Why do people have nice cars?
Do they have nice cars to drive, or do they have nice cars to look at?
Well, it's not just to drive, because if it was just to drive, every car would look like a rock on the outside, and inside of it would just be this really opulent, luxurious thing that made you feel good as a passenger.
No, most people don't even worry about what the inside looks like.
You look at the inside of that car, they've got fucking jack-in-the-box wrappers on the ground.
Fucking empty soda cans.
Starbucks is flopping around their cup holder.
They're not worried at all about the inside, but the outside is polished and shiny.
Why is it?
Because when you look at things that are beautiful, they give you a feeling.
They give you a good feeling.
That's why when you're taking your woman out and you go, are you ready?
And she's like, yeah.
And she steps out and you look at her and you're like, whoa, you look great.
Like, woo, this feeling.
This feeling of observing beauty.
Hopefully you do that.
I mean, you might be...
Might be unfortunate in that regard.
But if you are fortunate in that regard, if you live in a neighborhood where there's beautiful trees and you see the sunset and you see it poking through these trees and you look over at the lake and it's fucking beautiful and you see a fish jump and you're like, wow!
It's hitting you.
It's energy.
And when you live where that is, you're probably a little on the ball.
At the very least, you're inspired by all the stuff being around you, inspired by all this beauty.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, it definitely makes a difference.
I think landscape really plays a bigger part than people give credit.
I mean, you look at some of the hardest, harshest places, and they're dry as fuck, generally.
As far as from a kind of philosophical and religious and kind of an area that's really difficult, some of the Some of the worst kind of ideas.
It's not always the case, but you see a lot in like really challenging environments that are really fucked up.
You get people who are really kind of obstinate in a lot of their ways of thinking.
We're in the really kind of beautiful regions like Nepal versus China.
You know, when you're around that kind of awe-inspiring, it's not that often that you see really crazy, you know, kind of philosophies that come up.
I don't know if it's the people move to that or whether the environment actually itself kind of has some impact on On the psychology of the people who live around it.
joe rogan
And there's also, of course, people that go to areas where there's unbelievable beauty and exploit them.
Europeans, you know, how many people have gone to the jungle and exploited the Amazon, the indigenous people?
How many people have found resources in these strange, beautiful places and just fucked over tribe members?
You know, McKenna was talking about this slaughter in the Amazon where, I forget which country, where they were killing people for rubber.
When they found out about rubber, it was like in the early 20th century.
And they were going in there and giving these people, like you had to have, you had to bring back this amount of rubber every day.
And if you didn't, they would cut that amount of weight that's missing off in human flesh.
So they slaughtered these people.
I mean, they killed thousands and thousands of these people.
At one point in time, they had over 100,000 people in this area, and then they were down to just a couple thousand by the time whoever the fuck rescued them.
However, this was stopped.
I don't recall the entire story, but...
The concept of giving them a quota and then removing that same amount in flesh if they didn't reach that quota.
Cutting people's arms off and doing it in front of everybody to make sure that these people were absolutely terrified to go out.
People are capable of horrible, horrible things.
But my point is that when they're not, when society's stable, when you're not dealing with that sort of evil invader, you know, Mongol invasion type situation, when you're in a place that's beautiful, a lot of times the people there are pretty cool.
aubrey marcus
Yeah.
I tend to find the same thing.
And it's interesting how, you know, some places really do trigger that over others.
You know, there's no...
joe rogan
Beach communities.
aubrey marcus
Yeah.
Then there's...
You just know when you're in a special place.
The whole beauty concept is interesting.
Why is that one place, why is looking out over the mountains in Colorado more beautiful than the cedar trees in Texas?
I live in Texas.
I'm never really inspired by the beauty of the Texas fucking hill country.
It's nice.
I like it.
I love Texas.
I love living there.
But it's not the same as when I go to a beautiful beach, or I go to a beautiful mountain, or there's even beautiful desert landscapes that I love.
But it's funny how there's something that just goes and hits the right buttons in the brain and says, this is beautiful.
I know they've studied that with people.
People, it's some form of symmetry and health.
But with nature, it's even kind of more curious.
It's just maybe more like there's a life force or an order to it.
We like order.
Maybe we're part of that creating force, and when we do that, we like to look at things that look like they're ordered and organized by some kind of presence.
joe rogan
Maybe.
aubrey marcus
I don't know.
joe rogan
We were also trying to figure out the other day, because one of my sponsors is 1-800-Flowers.
We're trying to figure out why flowers are so fucking beautiful.
What is it about flowers?
What evolutionary advantage is there to being enthralled by these powerful colors, tulips and roses?
But if you see a beautiful bouquet of flowers, man, there's a feeling that it gives you.
This feeling of admiration of nature's artwork.
It's like, wow, it's a beautiful thing.
It's the same feeling as a mountain or something.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, it is.
Huxley had an idea that these visions that you see in the psychedelic experiences are generally very colorful and vibrant.
He did a lot of cactus medicines like mescaline and things like that.
And so the colors get really intensely vibrant and visual and bright.
And he was saying that we find beautiful those things that mimic what we see in that form of experience.
So like in a DMT trip, the colors are beautiful.
Out of this world or ayahuasca trip.
The colors are so vibrant and beautiful and amazing.
And they come in a lot of these, they actually call it the chrysanthemum, which is named after a flower, because they come in these kaleidoscopic patterns of things that actually do look like a flower.
So I think there may be something to that theory.
Maybe in whatever realm beyond that you're accessing, or whatever nether regions of your mind, if you don't want to go to realm beyond, there's some ideal of what you see there.
And looking at a flower, like a beautiful blue chrysanthemum, reminds you of that, even if It's subliminally and you haven't had a psychedelic experience.
That triggers whatever you know of some way back home or some other realm or some part of your brain that you don't really access often.
joe rogan
Yeah, maybe that's what it is.
Maybe flowers remind us of psychedelics.
That's kind of interesting.
That's an interesting thought because that's what they call that gateway when you first...
Breakthrough to DMT, and you see that crazy pattern, they call it the flower of life.
And that flower of life is a very common geometric pattern that exists in a lot of religious artwork.
aubrey marcus
Mosques and things even, too.
And goddamn, it's beautiful.
When you see that, you just can't help but just fucking smile and look like, holy shit, that's pretty.
joe rogan
Yeah, and when you're having a psychic, there's the flower.
unidentified
That's the very rough, crude version of that symbol, but...
aubrey marcus
Yeah, look up DMT chrysanthemum or something like that.
joe rogan
That's exactly what you see, though.
That's the weirdest thing.
When you're confronted with these archetypes that exist in so many different pieces of artwork and you see it right in front of your face, you're just like, whoa.
That's so classic.
It's a classic image.
Like, wow.
It's just, it is exactly what you've seen, you know?
aubrey marcus
And he said that about gemstones, too, you know, and that's why the fascination with these gemstones.
Why are gemstones so valuable?
Because that's really, back in the ancient days, okay, water kind of reflects, but there wasn't all this glass and shit that we created now, but they would be able to see something in that gemstone, you know, all the facets and the colors and the light.
And it was so beautiful to them because that was something that they could only see in their, you know, these visions or that nether region of the mind.
So flowers, gems, all these things that we prize are actually hearkening back to those, you know, those visions that we have.
joe rogan
Yeah, and for people to think that it's total, complete horseshit, one of the reasons why they think that is...
Your brain most certainly produces psychedelic drugs.
And they think that your brain produces them in large quantities while you're dreaming.
And so they're doing some studies on that now.
The Cottonwood Research Foundation, which is where...
Sorry, I have a cough drop in my mouth.
Dr. Rick Strassman, who wrote the book DMT, The Spirit Molecule.
He was supposed to be here on the podcast last month, but he's such a fucking hippie.
He doesn't even have a cell phone.
And we were exchanging emails, but it was a UFC weekend and I was gone.
He hadn't heard from me for a couple days, because I just don't do my email for a couple days.
I'm just fucking busy.
And so he thought for some reason or another I had changed my mind or something like that.
It's fucking crazy.
He made other plans.
I was like, dude, get a phone, you fucking...
It'd be so easy to fix that conversation, you know?
I call you, you call me, but he's in the middle of some new tests, and he's got a new book coming out, so we'll have him on soon, for sure.
He's a really cool guy.
I really love Rick.
But he did some work recently where they discovered that this has always been the big controversy.
He does DMT, M&A from the pineal gland, what is literally your third eye.
You know, the center of the brain has this eye, this thing that in reptiles actually has a retina and a cornea.
You know, it's this weird fucking organ.
And they always hypothesized that DMT had come from there.
That's the seat of the soul in ancient religions and the Egyptians.
Well, then they found out that they actually can prove it now.
Rats and live rats and a live rat...
They have gone straight to the pineal gland and found DMT. So they know the DMT is coming out of the pineal gland of live rats.
Pretty sure it's coming out of ours, too.
aubrey marcus
Yeah.
joe rogan
Most likely.
And if that is the case, and your brain does produce this stuff, for sure it's endogenous to the human body.
For sure it's produced by the liver and the lungs.
And they're pretty sure, for sure, it's produced by the pineal gland.
And pretty sure that while you're sleeping, that shit's coming out.
So one of the interesting facets about...
A lot of psychedelic trips, especially DMT, is that after it's over, it's very difficult to hang on to.
The memories, like, they drift away and they fade away so quickly.
It's like they're so intense and then when they're over, there's this lost feeling.
And I've been really thinking lately, because of my experiences with alpha brain and isolation tanks, that there might be something to that with psychedelic trips.
Having a psychedelic trip while you're really loaded up with nootropics.
We'd have to figure out what is the optimum blend to give you the most clarity in recalling your experience.
Because just like a dream, DMT disappears.
And so the idea is that when you're asleep, you know, we just accept the fact that we shut off for eight hours a night, if you're lucky, eight hours, and disappear and then wake up and then, oh, I got a crazy dream.
I was on a skateboard and there was a missile coming my way or whatever the fuck your dream is.
That...
That's about as crazy as it ever got.
But that might not be the case.
You might be in full-blown psychedelic dream state at several times during the night where you are just like a DMT trip, just like the most intense mushroom trip with your eyes closed in a dark room, like all those things.
You might be experiencing that on a regular basis.
And one of my reasons for being inclined to think that is that every time I've done DMT, I go, and not even the times now, but the times when I first did it, I go, oh, I've been here.
I know this place.
The very first time I did it, I remember that feeling.
Like, oh, I've been here before.
I know this place.
Like, why do I know this place?
And then I'm back to reality.
aubrey marcus
It is funny.
That sense of familiarity is funny, especially in that.
Because after a while, I guess you could say it's because you've associated positively from going there, doing the trip before.
But it really feels like another type of home.
joe rogan
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
Where you're just in a place that's really beautiful.
It's communicating in a new way.
Sometimes words come through, through beings and things like that.
But really, it's just some kind of information is splashing against this force field that we have in the mind.
And creating these beautiful colors and passing along information in some code that we can't quite decipher, but we know it.
We know something about that message, and it's a fucking beautiful place.
joe rogan
It also seems to know that you're not supposed to be there while you're conscious.
And so it's trying to give you some information while you're there.
It seems like...
I've always felt like when I've done DMT that while it's happening, they're like, What are you doing here?
Oh, look at you.
You're here.
You're here now.
So it's almost like consciousness, like being conscious, being a person who is awake and turning on your television and hitting your keyboard is a mode that you're not supposed to operate that dimension with.
So you're sort of tricking the universe when you introduce that dimension to a conscious mode.
It's like the conscious mode is like, what is the...
How the fuck is this?
Oh, you don't remember.
You don't know.
You don't know.
And then you're like, why do I know this place?
Like, oh, you don't know.
You don't know why you know it.
We love you.
That's one of the things I'll never forget.
I had one really intense experience.
And they're going, we love you 600 million, 500,000 times.
Look at this.
And it kept saying, look at this.
And every time it would say, look at this, it would show me something like insanely crazy, beautiful, impossibly beautiful.
And then the next time, it would be like a million times more beautiful than that.
Like, you thought that was as beautiful as it would get?
Look at this.
And it would show me something else crazy.
It was, I love you.
Six hundred million, five hundred thousand times.
Look at this.
aubrey marcus
You know, all of the...
I've been really amazed.
People think when you encounter, you know, some kind of entities or beings, they're going to be real boring.
unidentified
Like, well, hello, welcome to my realm.
aubrey marcus
Every time that I've communicated with any kind of spirit form in one of these trips, they can be funny, they're interesting, they're vibrant.
You know, it's like, it's not what you think.
joe rogan
They're not your dad.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's like they can have a sense of humor.
unidentified
It's...
aubrey marcus
It's really interesting how that is.
joe rogan
Well, we're so ridiculous in our ideas of how the world should be, how rigid scholars and learned people are supposed to be.
We have this idea that if you have knowledge and wisdom and experience and if you're somehow or another quote-unquote enlightened, then you're going to be like bland and flat.
aubrey marcus
Yeah.
No, totally.
You know, it reminds me.
So one of the third experience I did in New Mexico, I came back and my next up on the path after the snuffing the 5-MeO-DMT was a mushroom and Syrian rue trip.
And they call that anahuasca.
joe rogan
You're just a candy-flipping motherfucker down there, man.
aubrey marcus
I just did what the woman said.
And this was up on the menu.
This was my next fucking journey.
So they call it anahuasca because it's something of an ayahuasca analog.
Even though it's not DMT-based, mushrooms and Syrian rue create that.
joe rogan
Well, mushrooms are 5,4-aloxy and 9-methyltryptamine.
aubrey marcus
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah, that's what psilocybin is.
Psilocybin is DMT plus something else.
Very interesting.
One of the more fascinating things about mushrooms itself is that...
aubrey marcus
And then Syrian rue is a powerful MAOI. So it's like kind of combining the same two forces that are in the ayahuasca bird.
joe rogan
I've said it before and I've said it wrong.
Let me find out.
How do you spell psilocybin?
P-S-I-L-O-C-Y-B-I-N. C-Y-B-I-N. Either psilocybin or psilocybin is the actual...
Yeah, here it is.
Oh, boy.
I can't pronounce that.
Okay.
The point is, forget about all the science behind it, because obviously I shouldn't be distributing it.
There's psilocybin and psilicin.
Which one is psilicin?
Psilicin is also...
aubrey marcus
I don't know.
Maybe some other active compound.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah.
Psilicin...
unidentified
There's another one that's really close to human neurotransmitters.
joe rogan
These things are super close.
They're super close to things that the human brain already has in it.
aubrey marcus
So anyways, I do this anahuasca trip, and I'd never done ayahuasca at that point.
It was my third psychedelic experience.
And this one was completely different.
And in this one, I was very much like some of the ayahuasca stories I told.
I was riding on the back of a cobra.
And this cobra was in the jungle.
And I'm in the fucking desert in Mexico mountains here.
There's no jungle anywhere.
So the fact that I was in a jungle was incredibly odd to me anyways.
But I'm riding on the head of this cobra in the back of a jungle.
And I'm talking with my grandmother, who was somehow imbued in the spirit of this cobra.
And she was still alive, by the way, which is another interesting fact.
But anyway, so she's imbued in the spirit of this cobra and I'm dipping down in the earth and much like the ayahuasca visions, I'm having bugs come inside me and explode.
And meanwhile, I'm laid out on my back and I'm shivering and I'm kind of lifting my chest up.
And I must have looked kind of crazy to the shaman, but she must have been kind of used to it.
As I was sweating profusely and I needed blankets, I was cold and I'm shivering and I'm going through this in this really intense vision.
But all the while, my grandfather, who's Aubrey, my grandfather Aubrey's out on these rocks and, you know, in a whole different environment.
And he's just laughing, like laughing so warmly and like kindly because he's saying, Oh, you're really going through it now.
Oh, she's going to take you down there into the dirt.
And he'd howl with laughter.
And he was so happy and joyous about doing that.
I've never met my grandfather, Aubrey.
He was so happy and joyous about it, that experience, that I started laughing, too, because I thought it was hilarious.
Even though spiders are, like, going into my eyes and exploding and I'm...
Riding on the snake and I have no control.
I'm dipping down into the earth and I'm expelling the sweat and you know Aubrey's just laughing so I'm laughing and it was this whole wild experience but the thing that impressed me the most was just how vibrant and happy it wasn't like you know you see these mediums and it's all so somber and serious Aubrey says to say You know, good luck in your next algebra test, or I don't know what the fuck it was, but he was just happy as shit, you know?
And that was the kind of experience that I tend to find when I encounter these entities, but either family or these other things.
It's really, they're full of life.
They're almost that version in its best self.
joe rogan
That's also what you're looking for, though.
You're looking for love and you're looking for them to be full of life.
So if you really are creating the universe inside your own mind, that's what you as a positive person seeking positive experiences would create.
aubrey marcus
That's true.
joe rogan
You would create all of your relatives being super cool.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, that's absolutely true.
joe rogan
This is what Rick Strassman, by the way, said.
This is how he explains psilocybin.
That psilocybin, the active ingredient in magic mushrooms, after being ingested, the body removes phosphorus atoms from the psilocybin, converting it to psilicin.
Psilicin differs from dimethyltryptamine, DMT, by one oxygen.
That psilocybin, psilicin, he likes to think of it as orally active DMT. That's Rick Strassman's take on it.
So that's what...
That's the definition.
aubrey marcus
Very interesting.
joe rogan
And that silicin is the...
That's the active.
That's what happens when you take it.
That it's 4-H-O-D-M-T. Silicine or silicin.
It's spelled a bunch of different ways.
aubrey marcus
Because this really was pretty much an ayahuasca trip that I went on.
The differentiators are very...
You know, it's very similar.
joe rogan
It makes sense.
I mean, if you're taking an MAO inhibitor and mushrooms, I've heard people have horrendous trips taking pharmaceutical MAO inhibitors and mushrooms.
aubrey marcus
I imagine.
joe rogan
I mean, because they're intensely powerful MAO inhibitors.
Like, if you take a mild MAO inhibitor, like, say, Harmine, you know, and compare it to...
aubrey marcus
And that's what's in Syrian root.
joe rogan
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
Harmine, Harmaline, yeah.
joe rogan
And by the way, Harmine, when they first...
This is really crazy.
When they first found it, they wanted to call it telepathine.
But they couldn't because they didn't realize that when they discovered it by use of the ayahuasca shaman, they didn't understand that it had already been discovered.
That the chemical component of it already had a name.
So they couldn't call it telepathine.
But that was what they were inclined to call it.
Because these people were tripping their balls out and having these fucking telepathic experiences.
aubrey marcus
Shared experiences, yeah.
joe rogan
The problem is you can't document them.
You're freaking the fuck out.
You know you know, but you can't show anybody.
You're like, man, you're bullshit.
unidentified
Take this!
Take this!
joe rogan
And they take it.
Okay, what are we going to name this?
How about telepathine?
When a bunch of scientists decide to name something telepathy, holy shit.
What are you taking?
And the reason why we don't know about this, folks, is not because people are dying.
The reason why we don't know about this is because we've been denied by our daddies, by our daddy overlords, our government.
They've kept these intensely powerful and hugely beneficial to some folks.
Hugely beneficial experiences.
Kept them from us.
aubrey marcus
Absolutely.
And you can only imagine how many cool ways and places and the knowledge that was out there.
I mean, I'm very fortunate I was able to go with someone who'd been doing this, leading people on these journeys for 20 years, you know, and had experience, knew kind of the properties of what to do, knew what to mix, knew the amounts to do it.
And so I could just really trust.
But it gets sketchy if you're trying to figure this stuff out.
That's why I always recommend people go with a guide or someone who knows what to do.
And those are sometimes hard to find.
And that's why the only thing I recommend now is going to some places where I've been in Peru to do ayahuasca so I can trust the The shaman, the person, the maestro leading the ceremony.
I can trust the medicine.
Because there's a lot of iffy stuff, and that's another byproduct of making it illegal.
It's because you're forced to make some challenging choices, both risking legality, which sucks.
You don't want to wind up in a fucking cage.
Or you're forced to deal with something that you don't know the exact properties of, or you don't know what you're getting into.
So it's a lot hairier of a situation.
joe rogan
Yeah, and if you're a person who has a job that you like, you want to keep that job, you know, you don't want to be fired, you want to be outcast, you want to make sure you make your mortgage, you want to keep feeding your family, and then they're going to piss test you.
Oh, God.
That's what's really crazy.
It's like, you could smoke pot on Friday night when you get home from work, and if they piss test you on Monday, you're stone cold sober.
You're showing up for work, clear-headed, cup of coffee, newspaper in your arm.
They're like, Bob, we'd like to see you pee into this cup, please.
Like, what?
What are you talking about?
What did you do this weekend?
We own you.
We own your body.
We own your body.
Did you do something illegal this weekend, Bob?
No, no, no, not at all.
Oh, you didn't?
unidentified
Hmm.
joe rogan
No, I have a medical marijuana.
Not federally.
Federally, you don't.
Federally, you don't.
Federally, it's illegal.
So pee in the cup.
And not only that, we're going to impose our own laws.
We don't want you smoking cigarettes.
because that's bad for your health.
You know what I mean?
Fucking healthcare programs keep you from smoking cigarettes.
They can tell you to do that.
They can tell you to not smoke marijuana.
They can tell you you can't do mushrooms.
They can tell you no cocaine in your system.
They own you.
Not from 9 to 5, Monday through Friday, but they own you on Saturday and Sunday, too.
They own you 24-7 if you want to work for UPS. So brutal.
They test your pee.
unidentified
Yeah.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, and that whole idea, if they really were out there for your benefit and locking you up was for your benefit, they'd lock up all the fat people.
They'd lock up all the cigarette smokers.
They'd lock up everybody doing any bad thing.
joe rogan
Duck Dynasty would go right off the air.
They locked up all the fat people.
Do you know how bad their ratings would drop?
Fucking right through the floor.
It'd be like a sinkhole opened up right under Duck Dynasty.
aubrey marcus
It's the same fucking thing.
Obviously, obesity kills you eventually, and it kills you faster, way faster than that.
If it's doing it for your own good, you should lock up all the fucking fat people.
But that's insane.
So they don't do it.
But it's just as insane what they're locking people up for.
joe rogan
We don't need a daddy, stupid.
And you're not smart enough to be my daddy, you dumb fuck.
That's our real problem, man.
We've got a bunch of fucking unenlightened people that are setting the rules.
And we're making it so you can't have these enlightening experiences and be a guy that sets the rules.
Because if you are, well then we discredit you.
We found out that Obama was going on these shamanic trips and doing mushrooms.
We'd be like, we've got to get that fucking guy out of there.
No, not us.
Not us, but America.
The right.
Can you imagine how fucking Hannity, those shitheads, those fucking Sean Hannity type dudes.
aubrey marcus
Meanwhile, it should be the criteria for leading our goddamn country.
joe rogan
You shouldn't be able to be president unless you've done mushrooms at least once.
You shouldn't even be allowed to.
And you should have a videotape of you doing mushrooms so we could prove it.
Like, this is the mushrooms.
It should be like, I need to know you did a big dose.
More than four grams.
I want to see you get fucking blown out in the center of the universe and then crawl back home.
You know?
Like, really.
That's what I want to see.
And if you've never done that, man, we're having some weird conversation here.
Because everybody who has done that agrees.
Except Redman, but you can't trust that guy.
He doesn't think it does anything, but that's him.
But everybody else that I know that has had a blown-out, breakthrough, psychedelic experience, they believe that it changes lives.
They believe that it enhances your personality, gives you a new perspective, gives you a new way to look at the world, and is probably hugely beneficial to your growth as a human being.
But the people that don't, they're the ones who judge it.
The people that haven't had that experience, they're the ones who come out against it.
Which is so crazy.
It's like blind people getting pissed that you're looking at things.
It's like, what are you doing?
You're looking at shit?
No, no, no, no, no.
I don't trust what you're seeing.
It's right fucking in front of you, man.
The lake's right there.
Says who?
Says you?
You crazy person using your eyes?
That's really what it's almost like.
Someone who hasn't had a psychedelic experience trying to tell you that it's bad for you or that you shouldn't do it.
It's like, are you sure?
Okay, because I'm okay.
Not only am I okay, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be this guy if it wasn't for those experiences.
And you're a silly bitch, and you're telling me what to do based on nonsense.
I think I'm going with my instincts here.
I think I'm going counterculture on you.
I'm going counterculture.
aubrey marcus
There's so many forces that are pushing us away from being conscious and away from being awake.
That whole little mini rant you did about what goes through your daily life, from the phones to the honks to the work to...
All of this stuff.
It's not like it was back in the old days.
Back in the old days, maybe you could walk your bare feet on the ground and you were pretty connected and you didn't need to take these massive psychedelic trips, although they probably did and fucking loved it all throughout all cultures.
But that's besides the point.
It wasn't maybe as necessary.
But now in this crazy, weird world, it's so much easier to get off track.
And you look on TV and it's really frustrating.
I get really physically antsy and frustrated when I Go somewhere and they have like real housewives on TV because it's like so visible the unconsciousness that's going on and this drama that's all nonsensically ego based and all of this shit that's being kind of pushed out and it's filtering through our consciousness and then you know to ban the only thing that can really well not the only thing but one of the most powerful tools to realign you it's just a it's a recipe for fucking disaster And it's where we
are.
joe rogan
It's one of the things that makes life so interesting, though.
Because, unfortunately...
Because, look, I like to talk a good game, and I'd love it if everybody was enlightened.
But, man, it wouldn't be as fun.
One of the things that's fun about life is that there are a bunch of crazy fucks out there that don't get it.
And that when you do find people who do get it, whatever get it means...
You appreciate them so much more.
You really don't appreciate the light until you see the dark.
You really don't appreciate cool until you hang out with douchey.
You don't appreciate generosity until you meet a few cunts.
It's unfortunate, but that's real.
One of the things that makes mushrooms so beautiful is that people don't know.
And when you do them, you're like, how is this possible that this is illegal?
How is this possible that this isn't on CNN? How is this possible?
The front page of the New York Times doesn't say, stop everything and do mushrooms.
Stop what you're doing.
Stop everything.
Stop making laws.
Stop doing the stock market.
Everybody should do mushrooms.
Holy shit.
That should be the front page of the New York Times.
Stop what you're doing and do mushrooms.
If they really wanted to give you news, life-changing news, that's the real news.
The life-changing news is not Justin Bieber got arrested.
That's not the life-changing news.
The life-changing news is there's these mushrooms that grow.
They grow on cow shit, and if you take them, that might be what God is.
aubrey marcus
Bieber, if you're listening, I can take you down to Peru.
We'll do some ayahuasca.
joe rogan
He's young.
aubrey marcus
What, is he 18, 19?
joe rogan
Whatever he is.
unidentified
He's ready.
joe rogan
Either you or I would be dead if we were that kid.
He's lucky he has a minimum amount of testosterone.
He weighs 18 pounds.
He was a manly man, like an Elvis Presley type dude.
It's the reason why Elvis lost his fucking mind in pills.
Because he ran out of cum, okay?
They sucked all the cum out of his body, so he just started taking pills.
aubrey marcus
Is that dangerous?
I guess it is.
joe rogan
Yeah, you can't fuck everybody.
Look, there's a comfortable medium.
You could be like Bill Clinton.
You could be a serious dick-slinger.
But you can't be like Elvis Presley.
aubrey marcus
Genghis made it to ripe old age.
joe rogan
Right.
Allegedly.
Who knows what it was like hanging around with him.
I mean, the guy did a lot of crazy shit.
Maybe that was why he was launching flaming bodies over the roof.
aubrey marcus
He was out of cum and crazy.
joe rogan
Out of cum.
The guy was just cumming all day long, constantly.
By the way, Genghis existed in an era without Twitter.
Good luck pulling all that shit off with Facebook.
aubrey marcus
They'd fucking revolve.
joe rogan
Do you know what he's doing?
Jesus Christ.
But the Bieber thing, this kid is experiencing not just a level of fame that most human beings will never experience.
Almost all human beings will never experience.
99.9% of famous people will never experience the level of fame that Justin Bieber is on.
Not only that, he's doing it in the craziest time ever to be famous.
An era where there is just constant 24-hour images coming in of everything you do.
Every time he drives fast, every time he smokes pot, every time he gets pulled over, every time he gets arrested, every time something crazy happens, and he's clearly out of control.
He's 19. He's got a half a fucking billion dollars in his pocket.
And he's just running around like a maniac with the Willy Wonka golden ticket.
What would anybody expect this kid to do differently?
aubrey marcus
Well, every action needs an equally powerful reaction.
And I think if you were in that very challenge, I'm not going to deny it, it's an immensely challenging situation.
You got to go fucking overboard the other way to make sure that you keep some level of sanity.
joe rogan
Or ride that bitch right into the beach, Justin Bieber style.
Smoke pot on airplanes until the pilots have to do fucking oxygen in order to stay in the air.
Did you hear about that?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
He was on a plane, and apparently he was smoking so much pot on the plane that the pilots had to put oxygen masks on.
Look at the FAA's looking into allegations regarding Bieber's flight to New Jersey.
The FAA's investigating it, because he was on a private jet.
And he just started lighting up.
He could do whatever he wants.
He probably flew naked the entire trip.
He was probably naked with a hard on.
He probably was doing Viagra and cocaine together.
Smoking weed.
He's a fucking maniac.
And how could he not be?
He's got more money than he could ever spend in a thousand lifetimes.
And he's 19. And, by the way, everywhere he goes, girls literally lose their shit.
Scream and run at him and try to tear his clothes off.
And his songs suck.
So it doesn't even make any sense.
It's not like he's this unbelievable creative force that made these songs that are just...
You've got to recognize the genius of this man.
I mean, he's the modern Mozart.
He's Michael Angelo if he was a singer.
The art that he produces isn't...
No, it's terrible.
It's terrible, stupid shit, and he sounds like a girl.
He sings like a girl.
He's touching their inner soul with his own music.
And they run.
They run like fucking World War Z, just charging at them.
aubrey marcus
You know, even Alexander the Great, he was not perfect in any way, but he had fucking Aristotle, which was one of the greatest minds in the universe, as his mentor, you know, to kind of keep that guy in check, because he conquered the fucking known world at 25 times.
You know, he had that Justin Bieber-esque kind of power.
joe rogan
Even more crazy because he was a murderer.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, because he could do whatever, but he's not going down as Genghis, one of these terrible people.
Yeah, I'm sure he wasn't fucking perfect, but he had, you know, he did some sensible acts Because maybe he had, like, one of the greatest mentors of all time.
And sometimes that fails.
Obviously, Seneca wasn't very successful with Nero.
That thing fucking went straight into the fucking dirt and didn't really work.
But I just feel like if someone with some real sense and some good psychedelics could get to him, he could be a fucking powerful force for good.
joe rogan
Listen, Willie D from the Ghetto Boys said it best.
You gotta let a ho be a ho.
Okay?
It can't fix everybody, man.
Don't worry about Justin Bieber.
Let's watch.
Let's watch him ride that fucking chrome Ferrari right over the cliff of life.
You know, the thing about Alexander the Great, too, he's gay.
You know, so maybe a different motivation.
Gay-ish?
Allegedly.
Probably a bunch of chicks lying about him fucking him.
I mean, he had a boyfriend.
He killed his boyfriend, right?
aubrey marcus
He had boyfriends and girlfriends.
joe rogan
He just fucked everybody.
He fucked everybody.
aubrey marcus
Didn't matter.
joe rogan
Well, maybe he just didn't have as much cum as Genghis Khan.
Maybe Genghis Khan lasted...
I mean, obviously he didn't because Genghis Khan is responsible.
Like, what is it?
Like, fucking 1% of all of Asia is more.
It's like 5%.
What percentage?
aubrey marcus
Some ridiculous percentage of the humanity.
joe rogan
Yeah, let's...
What percentage?
Genghis Khan.
unidentified
Geng...
joe rogan
S... K... H... I bet it's like 5%.
Okay, prolific DNA implies...
Okay, ready for this?
This is a real...
Okay.
Wow, holy shit.
It's one half of 1% of the world today.
Roughly 16 million descendants living today.
Because that's not as much as I thought it was.
Maybe it'd be more people in China.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, a higher percentage in those regions, for sure.
And then you think about how much he altered the course of history with all the people he killed.
joe rogan
Yeah, no shit, man.
aubrey marcus
I mean, all the bloodlines he ended.
joe rogan
Oh, Jesus.
Eight percent.
Oh, my God.
No, it's way more than that.
One half of one percent is just the world, but it's eight percent of people living in one part of Asia.
Where is it?
What part of it is?
unidentified
Let's see.
joe rogan
Inner Mongolia?
Hold on, I'm trying to find it.
aubrey marcus
I really want to go to Mongolia.
joe rogan
Yeah, fuck yeah, man.
It'd be fascinating.
I think that just seeing the wall, the Great Wall, would be fucking amazing.
Seeing this area where they were so scared of these fucking terrorists, these savages, that they built the giant wall.
One of the greatest walls of all time.
aubrey marcus
It's like fucking Game of Thrones.
Literally.
joe rogan
8% of all the males living in the regions of the former Mongolian Empire carried a nearly identical Y chromosome, suggesting that they were all direct descendants of Genghis Khan.
unidentified
8%.
joe rogan
That's a gangster.
aubrey marcus
To the nth degree.
joe rogan
But it doesn't get any more gangster than him anyway.
aubrey marcus
That's it.
He fucking sets the bar.
He sets the mark right at the end of Gangster.
There's Genghis Khan.
joe rogan
And I've said this before, but if you haven't ever listened to it, you've got to listen to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History, The Wrath of the Khan.
aubrey marcus
In five parts, and it's riveting the whole time.
joe rogan
He's a bad motherfucker.
Dan Carlin is such a bad motherfucker.
Hardcore history, if you don't know.
Fucking fantastic, fantastic podcast.
And that's the ground, the grand crowning achievement is that Genghis Khan series, the five-part.
unidentified
Fuck.
joe rogan
Thor's Angels, too.
It's fantastic.
All about Martin Luther and Constantine and the Bible and all the craziness that went on when they converted the Bible to a phonetic language.
And the way he sets it up is just fucking brilliant, man.
And you have a podcast too.
Warrior Poet, right?
unidentified
Yep.
joe rogan
And is it on iTunes?
aubrey marcus
Warrior Poet Project.
It's on iTunes.
joe rogan
People can get...
Do you do a video aspect of it?
aubrey marcus
Sometimes.
Sometimes.
Depends.
Yeah, I have some of them.
A lot of them are on video.
joe rogan
And where do you put that?
aubrey marcus
I put that...
It usually stays on the Ustream.
Just kind of lives up there on the Ustream.
joe rogan
And what is the Ustream channel?
aubrey marcus
I think it's all homogenous, Warrior Poet US for Facebook, Twitter, you know, everything.
It's kind of my handle, so I tried to keep it consistent.
joe rogan
Beautiful.
So if people can't get enough of Aubrey's Delicious Tones, go and listen to it.
Go download it, check it out.
aubrey marcus
I keep them kind of short, too, so I know we've got a lot of good material to listen to.
I'm in the 30-, 45-minute range for most of them, so we get right to it.
joe rogan
I don't even flirt.
aubrey marcus
I just pull the pants down and we go deep.
joe rogan
That's how to do it, man.
I really think that this model of hyper-conscious ethical business that you're doing with Onnit...
And that, you know, we like to support as much as possible when we see outside of Onnit.
I really think it can inspire a lot more like-minded souls, a lot more people.
And I think it's really cool that you do this, that you put all this stuff out there, that you put out the blog, and that you put out...
You write some really cool blogs, and that you put out...
I mean, you put, not just put the time in it, you put the thought into it, and it's all there.
It's all real.
You know, you're really tapping into whatever the fuck is going on inside your mind and what you're trying to express.
And on top of running an awesome company.
You know, that's a very admirable thing.
And it's also very inspirational.
And that...
I think that tone and that mindset, that spreads, man.
That shit is contagious.
aubrey marcus
Well, it's coming from a real place.
That's what I feel like...
I don't know.
That's what I feel like I've been...
My best actualization as all the tools and everything that I've been given is to follow that path.
And I like figuring stuff out.
I know that I know pretty much nothing.
And when I start to find little bits and nuggets and morsels of truth along the way, it's exciting.
And then being able to share those.
And then, you know, not being attached to them either.
If something else comes up, cool.
You know, just really trying to put the best shit out there and improve the mood of humanity as a whole.
joe rogan
And show that you can still do this and make money.
You can still do this and be successful.
Capitalism doesn't always have to be evil.
You know, it can be ethical.
It can be conscious, socially conscious.
It can be like, it's like friendly capitalism.
aubrey marcus
Yeah.
People have a bad taste in their mouth.
You say the word corporation, and it's just because the brains of that thing are rotted out.
But if you get good brains and a good conscience and the right kind of motivation behind it, I think you could change people's minds.
There's a lot of other ethical companies out there besides Onnit, too.
joe rogan
Yeah, there are.
There are.
I just don't get them on the podcast that much.
aubrey marcus
Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan
All right.
aubrey marcus
I appreciate all you guys who listen and stuff.
I mean, some bad motherfuckers really collected some of the coolest people in the universe are coming, attaching to this momentum and creating this wave.
You know, you're a part of all these things that we show on the podcast, these things about weed laws being legalized.
I mean, you're a nugget of consciousness, so many of you that are pushing this forward.
And that's what we need.
You know, we'll move the needle.
You know, as soon as the people move the needles themselves, telling your friends and spreading the word and talking openly and being cool.
joe rogan
That's why podcasts like this exist.
I mean, the reason why, I mean, there's obviously, it's hitting, there's a resonance.
It's resonating with people, you know, and that's the only reason why it exists.
If I did this podcast and then every week it was like, boo!
It was fucking terrible!
Stop doing it!
Eventually I'd be like, man, I'm going to stop doing that podcast.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But the positive resonance is as much responsible for these thoughts as anything, because it's reinforcing it.
I mean, a podcast, much like stand-up comedy, it's an art form that is meaningless without an audience.
Without an audience, it would just be my edification.
It would just be these conversations, which I really appreciate, that I could sit down.
With so many cool people like you or like Cameron Haynes or like, you know, fill in the blank, you know, Graham Hancock, Dr. Amit Goswami, all these really cool people that I've been able to sit down and talk to, that would just be for myself, you know?
I would have never been able to pull it off, though.
I wouldn't be able to say, hey, could you sit down and talk with me for three hours?
They'd be like, what the fuck am I... I got...
Dude, I don't even know you, man.
You know, but because I'm going to say, oh, but everybody else can listen.
They go...
Oh, everybody can listen?
Yeah, yeah, everybody.
The whole world.
Millions of people.
They're like, alright, alright, let's talk.
And then they'll sit down and they'll talk to you.
It's a very cool thing.
So, for me, you know, people say thank you for the podcast.
It's been so beneficial.
It's changed my life.
It's changed my life, too.
It's been hugely beneficial for me because it's given me this vehicle for exploring these ideas.
It's giving me this ability to tap into a million different paths, different information that's coming at me all the time, different points of view from people that I deeply respect and I don't think the way they think and I get to see the way they think and I go, huh, okay, you know?
Even people I don't agree with.
People I do agree with.
A lot of times people go, you don't fucking call people on their bullshit.
Sometimes I don't call people on their bullshit.
Sometimes I do.
But one of the reasons why I don't sometimes is because I want to hear what they're thinking.
Instead of constantly judging everything that comes out of people's mouths, which I do a lot, what I like to do sometimes is I like to let it play out.
I like to hear the full version of it.
And then consider it.
Or not consider it.
You know, there's a million different ways to view this life.
And there's millions of different eyes to see these things through.
And I'm different from you.
You're different from me.
And together, we sort of collectively get a middle.
We get sort of collectively, we get an idea of like, well, there's a lot of fucking...
It might be...
We'll help each other.
The only way we're going to ever really get a grip on what the fuck reality itself is, is if we all share our...
Unedited, uncensored opinions on things.
aubrey marcus
Let the truth out.
Sunlight and fresh air.
joe rogan
That's not easy to do, man.
It's not easy to do.
It's not easy to find.
And in this world, there's very few opportunities.
This podcast has become an opportunity to do that by sheer luck.
Or not.
I mean, maybe it's not.
Maybe it's the fucking universe planet.
aubrey marcus
Ultimately, as you said, we're just good conduits for something greater.
We just happen to be a well-shaped hose that whatever information, inspiration can kind of flow through, and that's it.
joe rogan
Well, keep it together, you dirty fucks.
aubrey marcus
Love you all.
joe rogan
We love you all.
Next week, we got Monday.
Immortal Technique is going to come on the podcast with a gang of friends.
Should be fucking crazy.
Molly Crabapple, very talented artist, will be here on Tuesday.
Wednesday, War Machine is going to be here.
That should be fun.
And he's a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
I think that dude's going to open up a lot of people's minds.
He's going to freak people out.
And then Joey Diaz.
So that's this week.
Much love.
See you soon.
Enjoy your Sunday or whatever.
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