Joe Rogan, Bryan Callen, and Steven Rinella blend survival humor—like failed body disposal schemes and elk-hunting muscle adaptation—with critiques of hunting ethics and animal rights activism, exposing PETA’s contradictions while defending hunter-funded conservation. They debate hypothermia risks, urban predator encounters (e.g., Alaska’s elk-suit wolf attack), and self-sufficiency, from CIA basement gardens to Florida trapdoor boar farming. Shifting to food science, Rinella explains how diet alters meat flavor, like coyote tasting like "overcooked diver duck," while Rogan mocks pretentious wine culture (e.g., The Billionaire’s Vinegar scandal) and champions simple, satisfying meals as life-affirming resilience. [Automatically generated summary]
Go to O-N-N-I-T and if you use the code name Rogan, you will save 10% off any of the supplements, including Alpha Brain, Shroom Tech, all the groovy shit that we talk about on the podcast all the time.
There is always new shit and interesting shit that we sell.
Every time we find out anything cool on the web, like Blendtec blenders, or when we found out about Bulletproof Coffee, according to Dave Asprey, a lot of coffee that you're getting has fungus on it, mycotoxins, and you don't get the same experience from drinking that as you do from drinking coffee that's fungus-free.
He believes it's way less wearing on your system He thinks a lot of the crash that people associate with drinking coffee is actually your body reacting to the mycotoxins.
And that regular, good, clean coffee, like what he sells is called bulletproof, upgraded coffee, is mycotoxin-free.
They did that study about how men who show up in a bar all done up in jewelry and why they get beaten up traditionally or why there was this so much like actual violent pressure for men to actually conform to a haircut and to a look like – the joke is men, they have two criteria for how they dress.
They don't want to look like a pussy and they want to be comfortable.
They mainly don't want to bring attention to themselves.
Like you don't see a guy, unless you're wearing an Ed Retardi shirt, but you know, those guys are usually jacked and ready.
But for the most part, men will wear things that are like, you know, blues and grays and, you know, simple stuff.
Because this anthropologist was talking about the idea that if you, it goes back to how men used to hunt in groups.
And if a man, if you guys were all set and we're going to go hunting and all of a sudden I show up in a bunch of sparkly shit and bangles that are making a bunch of noise, you guys are going to be like, you're going to spook the fucking deer.
They can see it a mile away and you're making like, but I like these.
To be like, what is the selective advantage to being a daredevil?
And this guy argues that it's your saying to, a man is saying to females, you're like, I'm so ridiculously fit, you know, that I can do something so stupid And still thrive.
Yeah, but when you're in a fucking wingsuit, you're in a wingsuit, okay?
Those crazy assholes that jump off those mountains, and they're going 100 miles an hour in those suits, have you seen them fly through cities, like through the middle of buildings?
And so if that guy lands, and then a woman is like, I'm so impressed by that, I'd like to go out with you for drinks tonight, it would demonstrate that there's a selective advantage there.
I get annoyed at Criss Angel because he's too into his body and he's too into his ripped jeans and I'm always like, I don't know, I'm sure I'd like him, but when I see him, I'm like, I'll punch that guy in the face, man.
On top of the fact that he's really muscular, he's kind of a good looking guy, so I'm a little jealous of him at the same time.
It's very difficult to relax, too, when someone's hitting you.
And one of the things that happens to people is they freak out.
And their stress level goes up so high, they lose complete control of their ability to control their breath.
And they get exhausted and they fall apart.
It's like one of the main things that happens.
And it's because...
They can't process the actual reality of getting hit.
If you've been hit before, you can calm yourself down, even though you know that, like, wow, I just got hit hard, but we gotta keep moving, we gotta keep your eyes open, hands up, and you start, like, calming yourself down.
But that's a process you have to get really, really, really used to.
You ever see boxers where the guard's taking a jab and then he has his eyes open and he's countering?
Like, eyes open while a guy's punching your face.
Like, they get so comfortable with it, they eat jabs with their eyes open.
People who have no respect for that, people who have never been beaten, you don't have any idea what those guys are sacrificing to try to entertain people.
It's the biggest sacrifice you could ever make physically without dying.
And what's really interesting is some people have a genetic, like an ability to take punches that you as a human being should never be able to deal with.
Like even watching Big Country when he was taking those knees to the face.
It seems that guys with really thin faces, like narrow jaws, have more of an issue with getting knocked out, whereas big, square-jawed guys are more difficult to knock out.
You know, I remember when I, like I grew up in Michigan and you couldn't, you couldn't find a good, you couldn't find anywhere you could, where you needed to walk.
You know, like a, like a mile walk would be a big walk there.
And, um, We were, you know, we all consider ourselves, like, pretty tough about that kind of stuff, like hunting in Michigan and trapping and stuff.
When I moved out west and first started hunting elk, we would get where, like, we'd hike in, we might hike in, like, eight or nine miles somewhere to hunt, and then hunt a couple days and come back out.
And then we'd, like, get in the truck and drive to a gas station, you know, and you go in to get, like, a fountain pop.
I mean, there's things that people do if you go to a martial arts school and watch guys who have been doing jujitsu their whole lives and watch how you can move your body around, how you can manipulate your body.
The only way you can do that is if you just do it for years and years and years and years.
You're hiking up those crazy slippery slopes.
All those places we hiked up were really slippery.
It takes a specific kind of balance and leg endurance when you're moving through muck and stuff.
That's a skill.
You're just really good at it.
You were barely getting tired.
It was crazy.
I was really impressed.
I was like, this guy's barely breathing heavy.
We get to the top and he's glassing and I'm going...
Well, you did a lot of hunting, though, and a lot of physical things.
I think men need a lot of physical things.
I think the idea that it's natural for a man to have no explosive release physically for the rest of his life and just sit in a cubicle and just go through life with shiny shoes on, with a fucking tie on.
Your body's going to break.
That's a totally unnatural thing you're asking of it.
And if you don't have some sort of physical release, or at least understand how to manage it.
Think how normal it is for you to sleep somewhere that's fucking cold as shit with a sleeping bag and like, all right, well, this is just what we're doing.
Here we are.
You and Mo curled up together in that van, raising your asses off.
Well, Steve, shed some light on this, because I've read accounts of where the settlers, when they would move west and they'd come in contact with Native Americans, it'd be a bitterly cold winter or something.
And they would see like Native Americans and children not dressed warmly.
Like dressed in like, you know, or not warmly compared to Western.
So they'd be like, you know, 10 degrees out or something and they'd be in, you know, two skins but not nearly as bundled up as you would expect them to be.
Even then, if you look at cultures like Inuit cultures, just in that small amount of time, relatively, that's not a very ancient people or very ancient culture.
They're fairly new arrivals in the Arctic, but they already demonstrate Physical differences and physical adaptations...
...that would help them adapt to the cold, like how much stuff you spread out, like how much blood you send to your extremities and how well you can shut that off and control it.
Another thing is...
There's this thing that's called the Bergman Principle.
It's a principle in wildlife physiology.
And the Bergman Principle holds that...
Like, if you have a species, okay, let's take white-tailed deer...
In the southern extreme of that species range, the animals are going to be much smaller than in the northern extreme.
So if you look at white-tailed deer from Alberta, there's just monsters up there.
You hear these guys that get like 280 pound deer or whatever.
Down in the southern extreme of the range, they might weigh 90 pounds.
And what they find is that a bigger...
Like, generally, a bigger animal has less surface area.
So that bigger animal is better able to retain body heat.
And a smaller animal...
In a mammal shape, a smaller animal has greater surface area and is thus better able to shed heat.
So it comes down to heat shedding and heat retention.
And what I'm saying is, not just the body size thing, but just attributes, long legs, things that long legs would help you shed heat, squat legs help you retain heat.
So when you look at human cultures, like human cultures from equatorial areas and human cultures from Arctic and sub-Arctic areas, will in some way demonstrate that same tendency of...
Or, you know, that same physiology of being squat and compact, being able to handle cold.
So I think that, you know, it doesn't take that long for, I mean, whatever your feelings are about, like, you know, when I talk about evolution, it's always just, like, tangled up, you know, people think you're making, like, some grandiose comment about religion or the Bible, but I'm just talking about, like, that things are different, you know?
Things look different where they come from.
And it doesn't, and I think that it goes pretty quick, In species and humans and stuff, making, you know, like, acquiring adaptations that help them deal with climates, you know?
And you talk about guys going out west.
I mean, like, settlers going out west.
Who's going to wind up thriving?
The guy that can hack the cold.
The guy that can sleep out, you know?
But I think, like, on an individual level, I think so much of it comes down to...
Here to promote your appearance on Meat Eater and talk about the MMA week that we're developing for Cam and Company coming up last week in April.
Having Steven on and hopefully having you on, Randy Couture is going to be joining us.
We're going to talk about, you know, I think a lot of the similarities in the crossover between the MMA world and the world of hunting.
You know, you talk about what attributes it takes to, you know, make it as a Navy SEAL and you talk about what attributes it takes to make it as a hunter.
You know, I think that there's all kinds of commonalities there when we talk about What it means to actually be better than what we are and to grow ourselves, whether it's putting yourself in that state of discomfort where a lot of people bug out.
I mean, they don't want to do that anymore.
We live in a world in which our entire existence is based on how comfortable can we be.
But again, you don't become better unless you're pushing yourself, unless you're breaking out of that comfort zone.
And I think that, like you always say too, if you're trying to be really good at anything, you can find all that discomfort and all those plateaus and everything just in trying to get great at the guitar or the drums or whatever it is.
There's a certain amount of humility and an understanding of what's really going on that you develop when you sort of make any strides in any really difficult thing, whether it's playing chess, whether it's writing, whatever it is.
It's a matter of doing something difficult and testing your boundaries.
If you just look at the way people's lives used to be structured, you know, and even just, you know, not even just a hundred years ago or so, it wasn't like we had to manufacture opportunities for stress.
It was just like you had things you had to do, like you had to clear land or people would actually have children because they needed the additional, they didn't look at children as being a deficit.
They looked at children as being an addition of resources.
Like, I'll have kids because they'll help me do more work.
Not that I'll have kids so that I can pump money into them and pump resources into them.
I'll derive from them.
And now I find...
I certainly don't live that way.
Now I find that I manufacture...
I try to, in small dosages, manufacture that feeling for my kid to...
Give him this, he doesn't see it as artificial, but give him this artificial sense of him having to have output.
You know, that I'm doing something, and maybe I'm doing something completely unnecessary.
Like, he wants to make a birdhouse, so we're going to make a birdhouse.
But at a point, it becomes just, like, arduous.
You know, there's a part where the fun dies, and now we just got to get it finished, you know?
And to make it, and to turn it into, like, no, we're doing this, we're doing this, we're doing this.
And it's like, and I don't care if it's enjoyable to him anymore.
And he's so little, this is all just, like, experiment now.
It's a part of that, you know, you start getting good at something and just, you know, if you're trying to be a good wrestler or whatever, there are days you walk in, you're like, I don't want to wrestle.
I don't want to do any of this.
I don't even care about this anymore.
It's all a bore.
I don't like that guy.
I don't like that guy.
I don't like any of this.
And it's like getting into a cold bath until your skin gets acclimated, you know?
Well, that's one of the things about wrestlers that separates them from, in my opinion, almost every other athlete.
Wrestlers go through such horrendous stress throughout high school and college.
Suck and weight.
Between sucking weight and the training, wrestling is the most brutal fucking training you can do.
And then you're doing strength and conditioning, hill sprints, whatever kind of crazy weightlifting program they have you on.
You are broken down all day, falling asleep in class, you're dehydrated, you're sucking weight, you're eating fucking turkey breast and lettuce with lemon juice on it.
You're essentially starving while you're going to war.
Boo Mancini used to say, for some of you younger listeners, he was a world champion boxer, Ray Mancini, and he said, my father always said, you're a tough guy, till you're not.
Bottom line.
You're a tough guy until you're not.
Somebody hits you in the face.
You're not a tough guy anymore.
unidentified
You're a tough guy until you're not.
Doesn't it suck to get to an age where your references don't work anymore?
He was a gold medal and handsome and then decides he's going to go and get his nose done.
unidentified
Have you ever played the game where you try to flash forward 20 years into the future and find out, you know, like think, okay, what celebrity that I know now who's normal is going to be that fucked up 20 years from now?
It's a very disappointing thing when you realize that there's all these really douchey people that on camera, and they have this sort of artificial act that they put on, and then they'll do films where they're really good at pretending to be someone else, so they do that.
But you get to meet them, and you see them, and you're like, this guy's a douchebag, like a straight A, grade A douchebag, and you're a movie star.
I mean, it was like a fucking five-minute diatribe on how well this audition went, and he's pretty sure he's going to be back for a second pass at that.
And I think once I can get in front of producers, I can show them what I can really do.
Well, we were talking, Cam, before you got here, we were talking about how it seems like, you know, Brian and Steve and I are, because we went on this crazy trip together, because we went to Montana, we have this weird blood brotherhood ship thing going on.
It was hard to figure out how to sleep at first, but I realized eventually that the softest way to do it is to keep your, not just your sleeping bag, but your jacket on as well.
I kept all my clothes on, my jacket, my sleeping bag, and the down jacket and the sleeping bag.
You don't really know a man until you hunted with him.
Forget that because I don't know the guy.
I don't know what he said or who said it, which really destroys my point.
But a broader thing I was going to say is that there's like a...
I was talking one time with an older friend of mine.
He was talking about being at his fishing camp.
And he was trying to describe why he liked being at his fishing camp with his buddies.
And they always fish halibut in Alaska.
And he's like, everyone's just so, so...
You know and it wound up being like that he just kind of appreciated that like hanging out with people who Like, have the ability just to take care of things.
I spent 11 days in Afghanistan doing a USO tour and one of the things I came away with was I realized, I went, you know, I've been in LA for a long time where I'm the center of my own universe and everybody around me is always about them.
And one of the things I found very refreshing about being in a war zone, if there is such a thing as being refreshing, was that when you're in the military, you're a Marine, you're an Army guy, you come last.
Those guys put themselves last and everybody around them comes first.
So when you get off a bus and you're unloading bags, there's always a line of people unloading everybody else's bags.
Everybody's looking out for the other guy next to them.
And that's ethos.
That is credo in the military that's drummed into you.
I gotta say that having come from LA, which was the exact opposite of being thrown into that experience, was very, very kind of...
It's such a brutal grind to try to find people that are your friends that you can talk to.
I've cultivated a group over the years, and one of the things about doing your show is that I knew that if I was going to do it, and I brought this motherfucker around, I'm like, we'll change the whole tone of the show.
This show is just going to be a five-day silly fest.
I'm like, this is the perfect thing to do.
And also I knew that Brian Cowan holds up.
I knew no matter what happened.
Fucking asteroids could be coming and we'd be looking at each other.
Well, pal, it's been a good time, but I don't see us surviving that fucking thing.
Well, there was that guy that fed the body through, I guess, he had a hog farm and fed the body first through a tree shredder and shot all of it into the hog thing and the hogs ate it, but they still ended up catching the guy.
Similar, but one of them was a guy who, his wife got killed by the Cherokees, so he went on a rampage and just killed a bunch of Indians and ate their liver, and they called him Liver Eating Johnson.
When you get uncomfortable and cold like that, some party wants you to stand there.
But the only time you're actually comfortable is when you're out screwing around.
You're comfortable as soon as you start moving around.
But there's something in the minute you stop, something inhabits you and makes you want to just stand there and be cold.
And it's like the guys that are good about it are the guys that you look and instead of hanging around talking, they're just walking up and down a little hill.
Victims of hypothermia, they'll often shed their clothes, but in erratic ways.
Taking jewelry off.
Like taking one sock off.
But there's this thing that happens where you spend, like your body, when you start getting cold, your body spends a lot of energy.
It constricts certain blood vessels and stops the flow of blood out to your extremities, like to the tip of your nose.
You know when you get cold, the tip of your nose will get kind of numb and whitish.
Your fingers get that way.
Like your body's working really hard to stave off the heat loss, so it doesn't want to send as much blood out to places that lose blood easily.
But as you tire and you start to peter out, that gives way.
Your body can't expend the energy necessary to do that.
And it opens those up.
And it's a rush of heat.
So it's like your fingers have gotten very cold.
Your limbs have gotten very cold.
Your face has gotten very cold.
And all of a sudden your body's like, I can't do it anymore.
And all that hot blood rushes out of those things and people apparently get this feeling of intense heat.
Right before they go.
Yeah, and so they'll find someone, and it's always like, you know, he's got some clothes over here, and his wedding ring's laying over that way, and you know.
I was down fishing in Florida, and I got bit up by black flies real bad, and for the first time since I got married, I took my wedding ring off for a day.
And I had to put it back on even though it's uncomfortable because I just felt guilty.
And then I get here and I'm looking through my bag and find my wife's wedding ring in my backpack because like a week ago she didn't know where to put it and I put it in my backpack and I call her and be like, do you even know?
We were talking about who is domain name privacy, that when you register a domain, you can also register it anonymously, so people don't know who owns dickpartyinmymouth.com.
And, like, things that are challenging and things you won't figure out.
So I think people like to see that represented.
Also, I'll say that there's a big rift in...
In hunting as experienced by the American sportsman, in hunting as seen on hunting television, you know, for me growing up, like, we would start hunting deer with a bow on October 1, and you could hunt deer right up almost to rifle season, which was November 15th, and you had 10 days to hunt with a rifle, then you'd pick your bow back up, and you'd hunt to December 31st.
And it would be plausible that you would hunt pretty hard through that whole thing and never get a deer.
It was just a thing that happened, man.
You would...
Like, you know, most of you would get a deer, but it would be...
You might not.
And there's a lot of guys right now.
Right now it's turkey season.
There's a lot of guys around this country facing the prospect that they worked pretty hard and hunted five, six, seven days and they won't get a turkey.
So I think that people...
And I think that the assumption is always that people do want to get something and they do.
And so when they're watching something like...
When they're watching television, it's a form of escapism.
And so you want to see people achieve...
What you wish you achieved.
You'd want to go and see like, I dream of killing a big buck.
I want to watch a guy shoot 10 big bucks.
And that's like one form of entertainment.
But I think at the same time, people like to see in some way their life reflected back to them.
unidentified
I think more and more people actually are going the route that you just described.
They want to see that authentic experience, especially because a lot of reality TV now is very unrealistic.
It's got to be better to just show that sometimes you don't.
Exactly.
And that's the thing.
You talk to anybody who's hunted for any amount of time, and a huge part of the hunting is about going out with the guys that you're going hunting with.
It's about the experience.
It's not about what you bring home in terms of the game.
I don't know what kind of limits Ted Nugent has in his backyard.
I don't know if it's like a land management issue, you know, where you can make the call if you've got a high fence operation in Texas, like how many you decide to take out.
It surprises people that don't have a familiarity with hunting.
One, it surprises people that there's regulations at all, sometimes.
I have friends in New York who are pleasantly surprised to hear that wild game is managed.
Right.
And I think also, beyond that, it's surprising to people the variations from the different states, their strategy in how they're managing it.
I think a lot of it comes down to how much the state's public.
And, like, Texas, they even got rid of school trust lands.
So, like, it used to be that one in every 36 sections belonged to the state.
And they could use that to either build schools on or use that land to fund school Construction and they threw mineral leasing or timber rights or whatever.
And at a point, Texas even scrapped that.
They even sold that off into private interest.
So it's like, there really is, like, public trust wildlife isn't as vital in a place like Texas because there's not publicly owned land with publicly owned wildlife on it.
There's a lot of public trust land and public trust wildlife in a place like California.
The government plays a much stronger hand and a much more detail-oriented hand in what's happening in all this stuff, what is our harvest like, than in some states where it kind of tends to be like, well, it's your land, you figure it out.
Your show on the mountain lions, one of the specific reasons I wanted to bring that up is because the idea of hunting with hogs, or hunting with dogs rather, that wouldn't work at all.
I think you're seeing, and I don't mean to say that, I don't want to sound like taking Cheap shots, you know, at California or anything, but you're seeing a pretty, a real erosion of, you know, hunting rights, like a gradual, not even gradual, a pretty steady erosion of hunting rights in California.
Because it's easy, because there's a thing that, there's a thing, I mentioned this somewhere in something I wrote, where you can go to Americans, like you can go to the American public and say like, Yes or no?
Like, do you approve of regulated hunting, okay?
And you get, the vast majority of Americans, it's something ridiculous, like 74% or 75% of Americans will say like, yes, I approve of hunting.
But then you start asking them specifics.
You know, like, well, how about hunting with dogs?
I heard a big debate about this mountain lion issue, and one of the things that the guy from the Fish and Game Wildlife Service said is, what you guys don't realize is if you're actually a preservationist, the majority of money That we collect to preserve the land you like to hike in comes from hunters.
It comes from hunting licenses.
That's where the Fish and Wildlife Service and these different organizations that are responsible for maintenance of the land that is hunted, hiked on, and camped on Some crazy amount, 95%, some crazy amount, I can't remember the percentage, comes from hunters and the dues and fees they have to pay to hunt that land.
So I think that the debate has to be couched in those terms, too.
If you really wanted to get rid of hunters, we wouldn't have revenue to actually maintain Well, I think there's also this need to appease a certain liberal part of the population that is very uncomfortable with hunting in the first place and would like to look at people hunting with dogs as, okay, Jesus Christ, that's barbaric.
You're sicking dogs on them and then you're shooting them.
When Yellowstone Park became a park, there was still an Indian war.
The Nez Perce went through there and killed some tourists while they were fleeing the US military.
After that, they banned hunting in Yellowstone National Park.
Anyone who goes to Yellowstone National Park now will see the way that elk and everything just has no concern for humans.
Wow.
They've ruled out that humans are troublesome.
So you had this long absence of no wolves in that ecosystem.
And when you put wolves back in, it's just taking those animals a really long time to figure out.
To get back to knowing what it's going to be.
And so we had inflated numbers of elk.
Some would argue inflated numbers of elk.
Some would argue inflated numbers of moose.
And when the wolves came back, it's just...
I mean, just plowed them into the ground.
There's mountain ranges that maybe had 9,000 elk, now they're down to less than 2,000.
I was talking with a guy from a conservation organization that deals with elk, and they're looking at the very Real probability of if the wolf situation ever does get under control in that area, of having to reintroduce elk into some mountain ranges because there's a paucity of breeding age females.
I think if you get around a big pack of them, and a child happens to be in that area while that's all going down, someone sneaks out of a house, and they have a farm.
There's a story I read online about this woman who was watching these wolves tear apart sheep in her backyard.
Well, the real big ones that they're experiencing now, I mean, these deer are getting very large from eating all these elk and eating all these deer that didn't know they were coming.
There's people that are shooting them.
They're taking pictures of them.
You would swear it's a Photoshop.
These are enormous fucking wolves.
You're like, guys holding them and the thing looks as long as them.
I mean, I don't know what it weighs, but it's more than 150 pounds.
There's just people, these unrealistic urban people, and that's really what it boils down to.
The people that are really, almost all the people that are against hunting or against the idea of wildlife management, almost all of them live in cities.
And if it's not going to be a person, it's not going to be people, and you're living around these animals, it's going to be them.
And that's just the reality of the food chain of life.
If you're a meek person and you're wandering around through the woods and you stumble into a pack of hungry wolves and haven't seen an elk because they've decimated the population, They'll kill you.
You should say, urban areas, a lot of people who grow up in urban areas, only live in urban areas, have very unrealistic expectations of what animals are.
They have this anthropomorphic, you know, oh, it's thumper and it's bambi, and they don't understand.
No.
I just became a farmer now, so I have pigs and I have chickens.
It's so completely different to actually sit down and study these animals.
Are you doing it for meat, to provide for yourself?
unidentified
Yes, all of the above.
Eventually I like to get to the point where I can sell some, you know, we're doing heritage livestock and I was just discussing doing something like this recently.
I was like, it seems like if you have resources and you could get a plot of land and hire people to take care of it and grow it and have animals that you slaughter there and have food that you grow there, why wouldn't you do that?
If you could do that, why wouldn't you do that?
unidentified
Right, absolutely.
But it drives me crazy to hear these people say, oh, but look, the pig is smiling, and the pig is happy, and the pig loves you, and how are you going to kill that pig and turn it into bacon?
Just recently got chickens so that I could eat their eggs.
But I've been thinking about this for a while.
Everybody's worried about...
GMO foods, and everybody's worried about like, you know, Monsanto, and they're worried about what's organic, what's not organic, and what are the standards.
If you grow your own shit, you know exactly what it is.
So he bought a 10-acre pasture, like a very unpicturesque, just like an irrigated pasture, and realized that his llamas would just inhabit like a back corner and wouldn't use diddly of this pasture.
So just because he's just a pragmatic, resourceful person, and he thought it's out there, it's getting wet and growing grass, so he started putting out lambs, and he put out goats, and now he's got a calf out there.
And this guy, he hunts so much, so he hunts all of his own meat, and he eats the meat he hunts.
And he just puts it out there and takes care of it and makes sure it has water, and then gives all that stuff to his friends.
Who come over and butcher the lambs and take them home and feed them to their kids.
It's just kind of a sense of like...
If the land's there, you know what I mean?
It's like, it's there, it's been manipulated by man.
It's not like he's preserving some kind of, like, you know, primeval ecosystem.
It's just an irrigated pasture of alfalfa.
He's like, why not just have that be, like, have output?
It's just pleasant to look out my window and be like, it's producing.
Well, I'm delving way into stuff I don't understand now, but I know that Camper, I speak to this better, that he's got alfalfa, but it's an old alfalfa field.
So I think people typically, in some areas I know, replant alfalfa every seven years because eventually the alfalfa loses out to other plant species.
It's my understanding, I don't know for sure, that there's a lot of animals, if you go out and put them on just that, I'm sure there's a lot of guys that know a lot about this, like, cringing right now.
If you go out and put them on just alfalfa, it's considered to be, like, a hot food, and they'll overeat.
It's too rich, and they can damage themselves if you put them out on just, like, pure alfalfa.
Well, that's why, you know, eventually, like, what we want to do is to get into the business side of it and to start, you know, selling some stuff and really even, like, some of the vegetables.
When I was a kid, my stepdad, he was in school, and one of the agriculture classes that he had to take was like this co-op farm that people in the school all did together.
They had animals, and they grew plants, and it was a pretty involved thing.
And I remember even as a kid saying, what a cool idea, the idea that they all chip in together.
Everybody does a little piece of something, and everyone communicates what needs to get done.
And if you think about that, in a real neighborhood, man, You could have, as long as you had the soil and as long as you had the resources to get it started and then make it so it's self-sufficient, if you had a sizable piece of land and everybody sort of chipped in and you grew livestock and you grew plants and you fed them and everything, it seems like It would be so economically manageable.
I agree.
Can you imagine if we all got all our food from a lot down the corner where we all knew that this goat had eaten all this food that we had given it and you knew exactly where the tomato came from because you put the fucking seed in the ground.
We had this thing happen recently where it was like this perfect cohesion of hunting and farming.
We're down in Florida and we're hunting turkeys on this guy's ranch.
And the guy keeps coming and getting us because he wants us to go out at night and run hogs with his hound dogs.
And what it is, he's got a cattle ranch.
It's near Okeechobee, Florida.
And there's a, I heard two figures, 55,000 or 45,000 acre nature preserve down there.
It has a lot of rare native birds on it.
And the nature preserve's MO is they just acquire agricultural land.
They take out the dike systems and put it back in bird habitat.
It's funny because this guy actually has sold this preserve some of his land, and he is putting his whole place into a conservation easement so that at a time, he's like, my whole place is going to be part of that.
He was actually glad about it.
He liked the preserve.
But a big enemy of the preserve is wild pigs, which consume a lot of ground-nesting shorebird eggs.
So they have a guy...
The preserve is so tight, so tightly administered, that in most areas you can't walk around in there.
And they have a guy that contracts to kill wild pigs.
So this guy has a contract where he's supposed to kill X number of pigs every year.
He can't in any way keep up with them.
This guy that has his cattle ranch likes to hunt pigs, and he would always go back and hunt the boundary between his ranch and the preserve because there's such a great influx of pigs coming off the preserve at night, coming onto his ranch to get into less utilized land.
But his dogs would chase him, and the pigs would promptly run back into that preserve where he couldn't pursue them.
So he gets some hog-proof fence and builds a 400-acre enclosure abutting the preserve.
On the wall of his fence that actually adjoins the preserve, he puts in trapdoors, hinged doors.
Not big, not like the ones you see on the internet, but a sizable 170-pound pig.
And he puts it in a trailer, just to confine in there.
We go out hunting again, and the violator, the dogs, bust this other pig out of a palm grove, they call it a hammock, like an island of palm trees out in the grasslands.
And they catch it.
And this pig's castrated.
And it castrated, like a boar that's been castrated as a barrow hog.
And the incision where the hog had been castrated is all healed up.
And they told me that when we catch a boar, we always castrate it.
And then turn it back loose.
Because two things happen.
One, the pig won't procreate, won't contribute to the problem that the preserver is having, and the problem that he has for pigs on his land, rooting his area up.
And it'll do what he says is, take its mind off grass and put it on, you know, take its mind off ass and put it on the grass.
And he says, in 90 days, that boar will be fantastic eating.
And they'll have a layer of fat on it.
So we cut the juggler on the castrated pig and kept it for meat.
And it smelled great and was beautiful.
The next day, we go out with the boar we caught.
And they take a knife and castrate that boar and turn him out, knowing that sometime down the road they'll be lucky and catch that boar again, and he'll be a barrel, and then he'll be good to eat.
Okay, on April 25th, I'm cooking the caster, the barrel hog.
Now, I have eaten boars with their nuts, but I've never eaten a boar that was as aged and as venerable as that one.
You could tell that he was a very old, battle-scarred boar and very lean.
And these guys, I might have eaten it and thought it was okay, and it might be that these guys have very high expectations.
They pig hunt enough where they have a sense of what's best and what's not best.
The same way that you might disregard half a hot dog laying on the side of the road, but another person might be in a situation where they really appreciate that hot dog.
So for these guys who hunt boars a lot, The worst example of all time.
And eat them and love to eat them.
They were like, nuh-uh.
And when I expressed interest in the intact hog, being like, I don't care, I want it, they were so adamant that it wouldn't be good that they were denying me getting it.
And it wasn't because they were in love with the pig.
They were like, no, no, no, we'll get you a good one.
You can melt the fat and drink it and it tastes good.
Now, the fat on a salmon bear, you really have to carefully, and this is in the spring when they haven't actually eaten a salmon in six months or something, you have to very carefully trim that fat away.
If I get an animal that's funky, and I killed a female pig one time that was probably one of the worst game animals I've ever done, A, I'm just going to eat it.
For me, any displeasure I experience eating off-tasting flesh Isn't as bad as the displeasure that I would experience from having killed a big game animal and not consumed it.
People so often, I get asked, like, as the guy that's eating stuff, I get asked all the time, like, what is it like to eat this?
What is it like to eat that?
And I have fielded the question about what's it like to eat a coyote so many times that I started to feel like it was professional, like, malfeasance for me to not have a good answer.
Yeah, so it's like, as a professional development, I wanted to know, and we got a coyote, and uh- So you have to eat the whole coyote now, in your mind?
We ate, like, well, there's a handful of us there, and we put the vast majority of that thing down.
And even some puddle ducks, some puddle ducks or dabbler ducks, eat a lot of plant matter.
So of the puddle ducks, one of the not great tasting ones is a northern shoveler.
And northern shovelers eat a lot of animal matter.
But you can take the best duck on the planet, in my mind, and be like, I love mallard ducks.
But if you get mallard ducks in Southeast Alaska, like near my cabin, you can barely eat those mallard ducks.
Because even though they're mallards, and in most areas they taste great, in Southeast Alaska those mallards in the late summer are just in there hammering invertebrates.
So they're hunting the tide line, eating exposed invertebrates up and down there.
And you get those ducks, and they taste like coyote.
People who don't understand modern methods of farming and the way that animals are fed and the foods that they're fed don't understand the whole corn versus grass-fed debate.
Right.
We've talked about it so many times in the podcast that people hashtag things, grass-fed, when it has nothing to do with it, they're just being silly.
But cows are supposed to eat fucking grass.
That's right, they're ruminants.
And when you give a cow some corn, the whole thing is, it's like giving a person corn.
I want Steve Rinello's take on this, if you've never seen this before.
Ted Nugent and Pigman are in a fucking helicopter, and this is fucking crazy.
It's now legal to hunt in Texas from helicopters!
It is one of the most entertaining episodes of any television show I've ever seen in my life.
It's watching Ted Nugent and Pigman take out wild hogs from a fucking helicopter.
I'm like, this is some shit that after the fall of America, a thousand years from now, when they're trying to decode our history, they're going to watch that.
Holy fuck.
They were flying in helicopters, joking around about headshots.
Most of them they put down because they have to because they don't have the resources to take care of those dogs.
That doesn't matter.
I don't care if you don't have the resources.
You're killing puppies and cats.
By the way, you're trying to keep it secret, too.
You don't go advertising and telling people, hey, listen, if you don't come down and take these things as pets, we're going to kill them.
No, you're doing it on the sneak tip and people have to find out about it through the internet.
And then on top of that, you're criticizing people that are hunting and feeding their family with what they know to be a really healthy animal instead of this mystery fucking chain of command that happens when you buy a cheeseburger from Burger King or wherever, name your fast food joint.
Who knows what the fuck happened to that cow before it was converted into cheeseburgers.
You know, you don't know a goddamn thing.
And the fact that they would go after one while killing puppies and kittens, that's insanity.
One thing that rings false to me, though, is when guys do...
This is so hard to put.
It's like, Dan, if you do, Dan, if you don't.
I'm going to try to go for it.
When someone does...
If someone goes out and shoots a bunch of something because they're overpopulated for a rancher, it's like, in some way, you have to be self-honest, too, and acknowledge that you're not just doing an altruistic act.
You know, like I enjoy to hunt, you know.
So when I hunt on my buddy's ranch in California, I'm glad that he figures he has too many pigs.
Because it allows me to go pig hunting.
And I like to go pig hunting.
I like to eat pigs.
But I would never, like, I don't then say to my wife, I'm like, I really don't want to do it.
But my buddy's in trouble.
He's got a lot of pigs.
And I'm going to go out, and as much as it's going to be a drag, I'm going to go out and help them.
Because we need to fight our way through this pig problem.
And we all need to give our share.
Because if my buddy would call me and say, you know what I've got a real problem with?
My fences are down.
Can you come out and spend a weekend fixing all my fences?
Well, it's natural to, first of all, the hunting them is natural, and the dealing with the overpopulation is a real issue for people that do have farms and do have ranches.
You've got to deal with that.
And to get bullshit, to take crap from people that are killing puppies and kittens, like, man, we need to come to an understanding here.
Here's the real issue.
It's not PETA. It's not the problem of being ethical towards animals.
It's crazy assholes that do illogical shit.
And that's the problem with a lot of animal activists.
It's the problem with a lot of people that claim to love animals more than they love people.
You're out of your mind if you love a dog more than you love people.
You're out of your mind.
You're out of your mind.
That's a one-way relationship.
Jesus Christ.
That thing doesn't talk to you about stuff.
It doesn't challenge you on issues.
It doesn't tell you it loves you.
It doesn't help you grow.
It's a goddamn dog.
And I love my dogs.
But you're crazy if you like animals more than people.
And the people that are involved Just for whatever reason, there's a certain percentage, it's not all of them, but a certain percentage of people that are involved in animal rights movements have a distorted perception of the relationship between humans and animals.
And their relationship is not one of admiration or respect.
It becomes what you were talking about, the anthropomorphic sort of a thing.
It's like it's Bambi.
Or it's like, you know, I saw someone was talking about when the mountain lion got shot in Santa Monica.
You know, they should fucking shoot people.
I'd be happier if a person was shot in that mountain line.
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I'm like, that was a mountain line in fucking Santa Monica, man!
How do you get wildlife commissions that are run by people who are animal rights activists?
And why does that happen?
And how is that possible that that happens?
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You got it in California right now because the governor appoints So many people, and they're going to have so many hunters, and now they're going to bring a – they're going to say, well, okay, so the hunters get a seat at the table, but we also have to have the animal rights activists have a seat at the table too.
The issue is when states like in California where they're making illogical decisions like the lack of dogs in black bear and in mountain lion hunts.
They're hard enough to fucking kill and to control the population and especially when you're dealing with predators like you have a responsibility as a human being to keep the population in control.
I'm not saying you should run them to the point of extinction, but you have a...
I think Every human in a community has, if possible to control predators, you should.
There's a responsibility to keep a certain amount of control on the situation.
And when you start doing shit like saying, well, you can't hunt with dogs, or you can't do this, or you can't do that...
What should be is how many numbers are they killing?
There's not a lot of mountain lions getting killed.
Some of the states that have the most heavy hunting for mountain lions are actually turning out to be areas that are population sources.
So there's a movement right now.
I was just reading this paper recently where they were doing some work on lions, and they were thinking that with the abundance of lions in California, with the loss of hound hunting, that they would be seeing Californian lions going in to fill Ecosystems vacated by harvested lions in Nevada.
What they're finding instead is in spite of all, like the basin and range country in Nevada, in spite of the hunting, is still able to produce lions and they're seeing lions going in a different direction.
They're seeing lions going, spreading out displaced young males, spreading out from Nevada into California.
Now it could be two things.
It could be somehow that their buddy called them from California and said, dude, come here.
There's always something that violates all your expectations.
And to the answer, do state fish and game agencies do their job?
I have...
No one has complete faith in everything.
But in general, I have a lot of faith in state fish and game agencies.
And you guys have all had the luxury, like I have to travel around the world a fair bit.
And I used to have this naive idea that you'd go to a developing nation.
And it would be that you'd experience this great abundance of wildlife.
It's just in your mind, it's like, oh, it's like back in time somehow.
You know, I remember like the first time I went to the Philippines to do a magazine story, I brought my snorkel, my mask, and I thought it would just be this explosion of sea life.
You know, but in fact it's not because they use cyanide to fish on the reefs.
You go to a fish market there and the fish are an inch long tops.
It's either there's a bunch of inch long fish or they've just drug in a big whale shark and they're hacking an apartment machetes.
Whoa!
The reality is, is that the US, we have very progressive game management, and we have like a hunter-based management system.
In the US, when you factor in how many people live here, where we're at in a technological sense, where we're at in an economic sense, it almost doesn't make sense that we have the wildlife we have.
We do a phenomenal job, and there's a richness of wildlife in the United States of America that's unparalleled by any country in a similar situation.
No, you're absolutely right there, and we've had to use certain things to try to control other countries' abuse on the high seas.
Like, we'll even go after people and be like, not only are we going to not buy your fisheries, but now we have the capability to boycott your electronics if you're not going to get with the program of high seas fisheries management.
So, in general, in the U.S., I attribute...
It's starting to sound like a documentary, but I'm saying that the North American Wildlife Conservation Model, which is a model based on creating abundance, So that you can have a limited, sustainable harvest of resources has proven to be the best system and it's not even debatable.
I don't think that people who self-identify as animal rights advocates are actually dangerous.
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I'm going to disagree with you if we can snuggle and share a microphone here.
There we go.
Because I think that PETA is the clown shoes of the animal rights movement, but they're there in a way to be a distraction for, like, the HSUS's of the world.
What does that mean?
Humane Society of the United States.
And everybody thinks that the Humane Society is your local dog and cat shelter, right?
But nationally, HSUS, the Humane Society of the United States, doesn't really fund your local animal shelter.
They try to raise money off of you thinking that they fund your local animal shelter, but instead, they're the non-clown-choose animal rights group.
They're the suit and tie-wearing, lobbying, go to politicians.
They know how to raise money.
They know how to be effective talking to politicians and banning certain types of hunting.
And Pete is there, I think, really to be that sort of distraction.
You know, oh look, it's the chicks who are getting naked and painting themselves like tigers.
It's the people who are wearing like the little lettuce bikinis.
But Michael Markarian or Wayne Pacelli at HSUS, their goal is the same.
I mean, Wayne Pacelli has said, we want to see a day when there is no hunting in this country.
Well, I think your definition of human is what they want to change.
I think what they want to change is they want us to evolve past this need to be reliant upon our primal instincts.
And my thinking on that is always I understand the idealistic or utopian sort of pull in that direction.
But there's also a reality about the time that we live in.
Although we can see a bright future where we become beings of light who can read each other's minds and the internet is used to travel on, maybe that's the future.
Maybe that's a million years from now, whatever the fuck it is.
But reality is right now, animals don't live forever and they're delicious when you eat them.
And you guys are getting crazy, okay?
You're not going to live forever.
Neither is that deer.
Neither is that cow.
Like, this is nuts.
Like, the idea that you shouldn't torture them, 100%, I'm with you.
The idea that you shouldn't psychologically damage them by leaving them in cages their whole life and then finally shooting them and eating them and...
Yeah, there's a lot of bad karma to that.
That would make me think that the people that would be the real animal activists would be the ones that want to encourage the natural food chain.
You're not going to stop people from eating meat.
You're just not.
We like it too much.
There's too much scientific evidence that there's benefits through cholesterol, for brain function.
Inflammation.
There's a lot of benefits of eating meat.
Vegans don't want to believe that because a lot of vegans, what their thing is, Is that they used to have an unbelievably shitty diet.
They used to eat fucking bullshit and cheeseburgers and shitty food and blah blah blah blah blah.
But now that they're eating vegan they feel so much better.
Oh my god.
And now they're like these proselytizing for the vegan religion.
And they're going around telling everybody how amazing it is.
How amazing they feel to be vegan.
But I'm like, I understand.
You're right.
There's a lot of great nutrients in vegetables.
But, and meat.
And meat, too.
There's a lot of good in that, too.
And I'm a person who never did, like, eat their body away.
I never did eat shit food all the time.
I understand the direct correlation between nutritional supplementation, eating healthy vegetables, eating good lean meats, and feeling better, and your body actually performing.
Especially in something, like, really intense.
When you get into, like, jiu-jitsu, any kind of martial art, The stakes of you being good or bad are you getting your ass kicked.
And that's a terrible feeling that every man wants to avoid.
And you understand what's working and what's not working.
Pragmatism comes into play when you're involved in anything, any competitive athletic, especially combat sports.
Like, you better eat the right shit.
You better take your fucking vitamin.
Because if you don't, it's a difference between you just You're barely getting out of a submission and getting to a dominant position and winning, or you're tapping out.
I mean, it literally sometimes is that close.
It's a few beats of a heart.
It's whether or not you have just that extra push of oxygen in your body.
All you have to do is read the end, actually, because he talks about how industry hijacks the sort of – hijacks government agencies like the school lunch program and what the military feeds the soldiers into buying their food.
And how they get scientists – they stack the deck and get scientists to say that 25 percent of you are fucking – Diet can be simple sugars because there's a lot of money in high fructose corn syrup for the corn refiners, etc.
Monsanto has bought up a company that was the leading company on bee research because those are the people that said that Monsanto's pesticides and all the shit that's in their food is causing bee populations to decline.
So Monsanto buys them.
Then Monsanto develops a fucking robot bee.
I joked around about it in my act.
I said that bees are such cunty animals.
I hope that we make solar-powered robot bees that fuel themselves by...
They have dicks that are actually vacuum cleaners and they just fuck real bees to death and suck their life out and burn it inside their combustion engine.
And I was just joking around.
I didn't think anybody would actually make a robot bee, but I was like, how tough is it to pollinate a fucking plant?
They don't even know they're doing it and they're doing it.
And by the way, Monsanto owns the copyright on these, and nobody else can make their own robot bees, so you're going to have to buy robot bees from Monsanto.
Yeah, he was there, and then he got delayed by the War of 1812. That guy's shit luck.
This guy had Bradbury.
Bradbury was his name, like the novelist.
His name was Bradbury.
He had amazingly bad luck.
He thought he was just going on a little trip, and it took him like seven years to get home.
And all the material that Bradbury, all the material he gathered, like all the plant specimens he took, He got done and he wanted to take a different route home, so he sent his assistant.
Home with his stuff, right?
But his assistant gets home years earlier, and by the time this dude makes it back home, the assistant has published all the material under his own name.
This really interesting passage about how fast bees are advancing and how they always keep pace.
They're always out ahead of the frontier.
So at the time when he was writing, he was talking about like the...
Bees somewhere in North Dakota or whatever be saying, like, reliably, you know, we're in St. Louis in a strong way, and bees are 40 miles out, and the bees will continue to march across.
That's why, like, colony...
Collapse disorder, as interesting as it is, I don't think of it as a wildlife issue.
It's an agricultural problem, and it's a sad agricultural problem.
But when I think of wildlife politics and the well-being of American wildlife, which I have a vested interest in, I don't look at colony collapse disorder as...
Yeah, I would say so, because they're able to use them in such a targeted...
A guy that raises bees is doing two things.
He's producing honey, and he's providing pollination services.
So they do these things in tandem.
When I was in college, I worked for a beekeeper, and he would...
All the while, he's collecting honeycomb, but at the same time, he's moving stuff around.
So at the beginning of the year, he'd go down to Georgia, he'd truck his bees down to Georgia, and he'd do pollination services down there.
And I think that it's just a way that you can do very targeted, very fast, synchronized pollination of plant species that if you were relying on native species of bees and native moths and butterflies, that I gather would take much longer.
He had a short-lived show on Animal Planet, and he was an entomologist, and he was a really weird dude.
And he goes, look at this!
And he had this huge spider, and he goes, watch this!
And he put it in his mouth, and then he pulled it out.
It was this huge tarantula.
Now it won't bite me because I'm not a moth.
If I was a moth, it would bite me.
But I'm a human, so it doesn't know the difference.
I'm like, alright, it's some Filipino thing, right?
So I said, his claim to fame is he'd been stung by every insect.
And I said, there are some wasps out there that can hurt you.
And he said, oh yes, oh yes.
And I said, like what?
He goes, well, the tarantula hawk or the 24-hour ant that you find in Panama, if they sting you, you'll fall to the ground and scream for hours and hours.
He goes, they call it a 24-hour because when you do get stung, you can't sleep, you can't drink, you can't eat for 24 hours.
The pain is so intense.
I said, what was the pain like?
He goes, I liken it to getting your hand slammed in a car door and being shot with a.45 at the same time.
He was this really weird guy.
I was like, well, I'll be staying away from the tarantula hawk, which is indigenous to this area, Nevada, Utah.
That really drives me nuts about animal rights activists, because those are animals too.
This is a whole broad ecosystem, and a lot of these things that are out there, we can't live with them.
If we live with them, they kill us.
Like, do you understand that there's ants in Africa that kill elephants?
They climb up an elephant's leg, and they go right through the fucking ear, and they start eating the elephant ear first.
Fuck yeah, it's true.
They find them, and then they communicate with the other ants in their evil cunt colony, and they find this poor fucking elephant, and they climb up, and they eat him ears first.
Did you, you must have, if you're a cunt thing, because you know those guys, my boys in San Antonio who made this big promotional video for me that said, no cunts.
My point is that if we eliminated that from the world, and everyone left had to figure things out, I think, magically, 99% of the world's problems would immediately be eradicated.
I really do believe that.
I think most of the world's problems, whether it's crazy, out-of-control bankers that are fucking stealing resources and robbing this country blind, or whether it's evil, corrupt politicians, or whether it's, you know, whatever it is.
You get, cut all the cunty human beings out of that equation, And new resolutions automatically begin to show themselves and people automatically begin to try to find ways to work together and stop environmental devastations and figure out how to be profitable while still being ethical.
It's a cunt issue.
We have like this huge civilization issue that's really a cunt issue.
You know, what people need to do is, your ego can convince you of some pretty horrible shit.
Because we're in this, we're sort of a species that's in a stage.
We're in a stage of not quite being animals, being self-aware, having the ability to communicate.
Not really being completely fully, wholly enlightened.
And there's a lot of things that slow us down along that way to being completely, wholly enlightened and enjoying this experience as brothers and sisters.
And the problem is people that don't get life right.
Whether it's genetic, whether it's behavioral because of their environment and the conditioning that they experienced growing up, whatever it is.
Those people that don't quite get life right and are just fucking insulting and stupid and annoying and constantly creating their own issues, constantly causing problems so that they have some sort of motivation to get through their daily day.
That's a big percentage of human beings.
It's a complex organism that doesn't come with a direction manual.
So a lot of people fuck it up.
And you develop from the ground up and you do a shit job.
And it's addicted to drugs.
And it's stopping that with these drugs.
And you're filling these holes.
And you're cutting off.
You've got to have something that allows you to see if it's possible.
Some people it's not possible.
Some people are so psychologically damaged by the time they become an adult.
There's almost nothing you can do for them.
But if someone did have enough sense to just stand back and look at their life as if they were trying to give themselves advice.
Somebody once said, this scientist was saying, if you got rid of all the ants on the planet, the Earth would last five years.
In other words, all the other animals would die in five years for a whole bunch of reasons, because it's part of the ecosystem.
If you got rid of all humans, animals and everything else would be just fine.
It would flourish.
That is an interesting thing to say.
I thought about that because I thought a lot of people, when you couch it in those terms, and I think as a human being you kind of grow up knowing in some ways that we are somehow a burden to the ecosystem.
We are a burden to this world, the natural world, and it's something we have to steward properly.
There's a built-in sense as a human being that in some ways you are a bit of an intruder, an interruption, and a burden to that which is life-sustaining.
Yeah, because they, I guess they, they, it actually, there's like, there's a, I'm trying to find a video, right, or a photo of it, but there's actually people taking photos in front of it, like the families and stuff like that before it happened.
I think that's like the old days back when we didn't have technology.
I think that's the case.
One of the things that puts it into perspective is that a couple thousand years ago, if someone showed up on your shore, those fucking people were dangerous and you had to kill them.
You were probably going to get raped and pillaged.
When you have Dennis Rodman in your council, why doesn't he bring Dennis Rodman in and would the United States hook it up and just provide him with a thousand Korean chicks and just let him run it?
Could you imagine if the North Koreans love Dennis Rodman so much that they let him become their king?
And then somehow in some strange world he goes over there and then all of a sudden he starts giving press conferences that Dennis Rodman is now running North Korea.
See, one of the reasons why I have very little tolerance with you when it comes to that is that I have my other good friend, Matt Lichtenberg, who's a huge wine fanatic.
Legit.
The guy has a fucking crazy wine cellar, temperature-controlled in his house.
Ancient wines and shit and all these important ones.
A horizontal flight would be where you take a year and you go to all the great Bordeauxs and you get their Bordeaux from that year.
It's a horizontal flight.
A vertical flight is you take a specific vineyard and you collect all the years from that specific vineyard.
So you might host a vertical and it's like...
Chateau whatever, 1920 to 1945, and you're going to taste a 25-year span out of that production.
The reason I know this, and I want to do a shameless plug, my buddy Ben Wallace has this great book, The Billionaire's Vinegar, and it's about the most expensive bottle of wine ever sold, but what is good wine?
Well, the problem is, as his book explains, is the problem is The most expensive bottle of wine ever sold wound up being fraudulent, but it was purported to be owned by Thomas Jefferson.
Steve Forbes owned it for a while and all these different guys owned this bottle of wine.
One of the Koch brothers owned it for a while.
And in the end, there's no one around who can go, I've had a lot of wine from that year.
They put it in their corporate headquarters, and they had it in a box, like a glass-lit box as a decoration, but they had it standing upright with a heat lamp in there or a lamp.
So later, when people were trying to analyze what was in it, They can never rule out the intrusion of foreign substances, which will not allow them to find out what it was.
The guy who created the hoax would take really good wine and do weird stuff to it.
Like he'd put a little bit of vanilla extract in there.
Or he'd put some dirt from his gutter in there.
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Just weird things he could do to kind of throw people.
Like, if I drink an amazing bottle of wine, like, say, 500 or whatever, like, my friend made a fortune, and he's a huge wine guy like your buddy, I always describe it this way.
I go, when I drink an amazing glass of wine, I say to him, I, I, the way I, the reason it's expensive, I go, nothing else tastes like that.
That, that taste, that experience stands on its own.
You don't, you can go, oh, it tastes just like this.
He was going to have a scripted reality show that viewers would...
The way viewers don't really understand that reality shows are cast and scripted.
He was going to toy with this idea when it was starting to happen.
A real world to MTV real world type thing.
But build it and as he lost...
As he courted, like, an incredulous response in his viewership, being like, there's no way, there's no way, they didn't do that, that didn't happen, to, like, push it so far that the final tipping point would be that they actually kill somebody.
I'm writing a blog about the entire event that I'll put up this week because I have pictures of Brian taking a shit outside and we put a flag, an aluminum foil in it, and we're going to offer money on Twitter, like $1,000, if anybody could find it and take a picture of their face next to Brian's shit, if you could find it on the Missouri Breaks.