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Nov. 14, 2012 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:47:34
Joe Rogan Experience #284 - Daniel H. Wilson
Participants
Main voices
b
brian redban
05:30
d
daniel h wilson
01:16:10
j
joe rogan
01:22:39
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
Hey everybody, what the fuck?
joe rogan
Are we live, Brian?
brian redban
Yes, we are.
joe rogan
Is this legitimate?
unidentified
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
Ladies and gentlemen, the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast is brought to you today.
Today we have one of our regular sponsors, which is Audible.com.
Audible.com, if you haven't used it.
Oh, sweet.
If you use the website, audible.com forward slash Joe, it takes you to this website where it gives you free Audible for 30 days and you get a free audio book.
If you've never used audiobooks, they're awesome for trips or for a lot of the same the same kind of shit where podcasts are awesome when you're you're just killing time like if you're in a car on a plane, the difference between a great podcast or a great audiobook is the difference between a boring ass stupid fucking flight where you can't wait for it to be over and something where you're enjoying the book so much you don't even give a shit like
I can get completely caught up in an audiobook in like a four or five hour trip and the time just flies by and I actually enjoy it.
It's like literally a difference between not liking something, being like annoyed by something and actually enjoying it just because your time is just sitting in a chair taking in this book.
So it's great for commuting.
It's great for the same things I said, again, like podcasts are great for.
It's great for if you're just going to ride a bike for 40 minutes.
You're going to get on a stationary bike just to do exercise.
That shit can be really boring.
But if you could do it with either some great music or a great audio book, you can kill that time a lot better.
It's a great way to get in some interesting information.
And again, if you go to the website...
Audible.com forward slash Joe.
They give you 30 free days.
brian redban
Look who I found on here.
joe rogan
Oh, the Robo Apocalypse.
That's by our friend Daniel H. Wilson.
And he's on the podcast today, folks.
You could talk during any of this.
It doesn't matter.
I'm not an apostle.
We're also brought to you by DeathSquad.tv.
That's Brian's website.
People always ask where to get these crazy cat t-shirts that say DeathSquad on them.
These are all Brian's creations, and you can get them on DeathSquad.tv.
And the money goes to support his podcast network as well, which now has Kevin Pereira.
He has a new show called Pointless on it.
Fucking awesome show.
Kevin Pereira is our boy.
He's hilarious.
He's brilliant.
He's the perfect guy for a fucking podcast.
brian redban
We had Bobcat on last night, and he just finished up on a Bigfoot movie.
We talked all about it.
You're going to love it, dude.
The whole time, I'm just like, Joe's going to freak out.
joe rogan
I'm going to download it on my phone before I leave here.
I'm going to listen to it on the car home.
I love that you can just do that.
I just love this world that we live in.
You know, that you can just do that.
I can just throw that on my phone.
You know, over the Wi-Fi.
It'll take a couple of minutes.
Go, get in my car.
Boom!
Listen to it all the way home.
We live in awesome times.
This is fucking badass.
daniel h wilson
We don't tolerate boredom.
joe rogan
Yeah, we don't tolerate it.
And you don't tolerate ignorance anymore either.
Get your shit together, stupid.
All right?
The fucking information's out there.
We're also sponsored by Onnit.com.
That's O-N-N-I-T. Makers of New Mood, Alpha Brain, Shroom Tech Sport, Shroom Tech Immune.
There's too many things to list now.
It gets silly if I try to list all of them because you're not really paying attention anymore.
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It's killer bee honey.
brian redban
Oh, dude.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's killer bee honey.
Why?
I don't know.
Why not?
brian redban
Dude, that seems scary.
That seems scary as fuck.
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't know.
It's probably not even good for you.
brian redban
Who the fuck knows?
joe rogan
Evil bitches.
They're so evil, those bees, man.
We got their honey.
Ah, we ganked them.
It's like some gangster honey.
Imagine if they smelled it and they came and fucked you up because it was in your cupboard.
unidentified
Oh, man.
brian redban
Shit.
joe rogan
The killer bees realized, what, this motherfucker's stealing our honey in some sort of a way.
They try to mate with you?
brian redban
All the bees try to fuck you in the ass because they're trying to mate you?
joe rogan
I don't think they would do that, Brian.
brian redban
They might.
joe rogan
I think they're a little small for that.
But the idea that they might come fuck you up because you stole their honey, that's a possibility.
daniel h wilson
Or it can make you immune to their stings.
joe rogan
I don't think it would do that.
I think you have to actually get venom.
The honey and the venom aren't related.
If you get a little bit of venom, I think you get used to it, right?
Isn't that what happens?
brian redban
It's getting scary.
joe rogan
Scary?
daniel h wilson
What's scary?
joe rogan
Dude, don't be scared.
They're just little bees.
You smack them out of the sky.
I really don't think you have to worry.
I think we're talking with great ignorance, Brian.
Don't be scared.
It's just honey.
These fucking bees have no idea that you have this honey.
They're stupid as fuck.
They don't know about jars.
I don't know about none of that shit, man.
brian redban
They all work together and spin the wheel?
joe rogan
Dude, you do not have to worry about that.
brian redban
Get the cap off?
joe rogan
Get yourself some Vitamin Sun, some Alpha Brain, throw down some kettlebells and get all manly if you want to buy kettlebells.
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brian redban
No.
joe rogan
No kettlebelly?
brian redban
I'm trying to make sure my cat's not peeing on my couch right now.
joe rogan
That's the hard thing in Brian's life.
Use the code name ROGAN and save 10% off any and all of the Onnit supplements.
Alright, you dirty bitches.
Daniel Wilson's here.
We're going to get down to business.
We're going to find out about robots and shit and whether or not we should be freaking out right now.
Cue the music, Brian.
unidentified
Check it out!
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day!
Joe Rogan Podcast by night!
All day!
joe rogan
Powerful Daniel H. Wilson.
How are you a robotics expert?
Was it all in research for this book?
Do you have a background in robotics?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, as a kid I got really into robots and then I studied computer science.
And then while I was doing that I found out that instead of just programming computers, you could actually teach them how to learn the answer on their own, artificial intelligence.
That there was science fiction that you could study for real, the nerd in me really went for it.
It was exactly like if you're playing a role-playing game and you have a character sheet and you're picking the skills.
I saw roboticist and I said, oh well, I'll level up in that.
I think that would be great.
joe rogan
So it was just like you had a dream job as a little kid and you just got lucky that it was an actual real job.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, basically.
I mean, I like science fiction, I like the science, and then whenever I got...
I finished this computer science thing and I didn't want to...
I mean, forget going into the real world and getting a job.
joe rogan
Yeah, fuck that.
daniel h wilson
I went to grad school and studied robotics.
When I finished that, I started writing books about robots.
joe rogan
Wow, that's awesome.
This book that you wrote, Robopocalypse, is that what it is?
daniel h wilson
Yeah.
joe rogan
This is going to get turned into a movie?
daniel h wilson
Yeah.
joe rogan
Are you going to scare the fuck out of people, man?
daniel h wilson
You know, I've had this described to me from very credible sources as saving Private Ryan with robots.
Oh, Jesus Christ.
unidentified
It's going to be fucking intense.
joe rogan
Is this something that you just wrote about because it's a fascinating piece of fiction to pursue?
Or is this something that you think is actually possible?
Do you ever consider the idea that robots could try to take over the Earth?
daniel h wilson
Well, man, I have really mixed feelings about this because I spent all this time with roboticists.
We were building robots, we all had our own research, and we were definitely trying to help people.
None of us were evil that I knew of, you know?
And so then I go and I get done and I write this book where robots are killing everybody.
So I made it as realistic as I could based on everything I know.
So there are no robots from outer space.
There's no time travel.
This is all based on stuff that we either have already or we're going to have soon.
So it's the most realistic version that I could come up with.
But that said, I don't really think that the robots are going to You know, join together under a sentient artificial intelligence and then try to wipe us out as a species.
joe rogan
I always wonder, because I always felt like there were certain things that, the instincts that human beings had that lead us to war and lead us to feats of ego and craziness and psychosis, and I always felt that they were, a lot of them were wrapped around breeding, around the necessary things that need to be in place in order to reinforce the idea that it's competition to breed.
And that these things wouldn't exist in a computer because it wouldn't need them.
It wouldn't be inherent to the system the same way greed and ego is almost inherent to the human system to promote sexual conquest or to promote competition.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I mean if you look at any of us that are sitting here that are alive, you gotta think that every single one of our ancestors, by hook or by crook, they lived long enough To make babies and to keep the babies safe.
And so you don't make it that long, like 200,000 years of homo sapien, without being a badass, right?
Anybody that was a little too soft, they're not here.
They didn't make babies.
And so that is a part of our DNA, literally, as human beings.
And the thing about building robots is...
I mean, you can make them any way you want, right?
If you want to build a robot that's going to have a sense of self-preservation, you can do that.
joe rogan
Well, there's also the crazy thought that in this pursuit, this mad pursuit of success that pushes people to do war and pushes people with great feats of ego, it's almost like that's necessary to ensure that there's some form of competition to make things move in the right direction.
But it doesn't seem like that would be inherent in a computer system.
I think, like, the douchey human behavior, like, we shouldn't think that it would, like, say, oh, we've got to wipe out all these people.
We have to take over and wipe out all these people.
It doesn't even seem like it would have, like, a desire to compete.
daniel h wilson
See, here's the deal.
Like, human beings, I feel like we've got all this machinery that's in place, has been for a long time, because it works, right?
There's a reason we're all still alive.
And so, we have a nature.
We have a human nature that we can't change.
And sometimes...
It pushes us to do terrible things in order to survive or, you know, like you're talking about conquest.
And that's scary, right?
That we're each of us fighting against sort of a dark nature and we've all got the potential to have a good nature.
I think what's even more scary than that is that a robot can be a total blank slate.
Let's say you tell a robot to solve a problem.
You tell it to get from point A to point B. Well, if that involves, like, stepping on babies, A robot doesn't have any nature.
It doesn't have any instinct.
It'll do that.
It'll commit in an amoral way without any good or evil associated with it.
It can commit atrocities, you know?
And that's pretty scary.
And that means you've got to be careful whenever you build these things.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's...
I mean, you can build into it.
Please avoid humans.
Avoid, you know, unnecessary loss of human life.
But at a certain point in time, if you're going to use, like, one of those for war, like, we're kind of doing with...
With drones.
I mean, that's kind of essentially what a drone is, right?
It's like a robot that flies.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, a drone has a lot of autonomy.
It makes some decisions on its own, but they're not pulling the trigger themselves.
I don't think they're doing that.
There are, by the way, people get all upset about drones.
Autonomous weapons have been around for decades and decades.
I mean, the very first drone, I think, they used it in the Korean War.
And in Vietnam, they had them.
Now they're getting cheap.
Because we got the cheap sensors, cheap processing.
joe rogan
Well, that was one of the part particulars in Operation Northwoods, I think, was that they were going to use a drone jetliner.
And they were going to blow it up and blame the Cubans.
unidentified
Whoa.
joe rogan
Yeah.
The Cubans blew up a jetliner.
And back then, they could just fucking change your life.
You're now Joe Hill, and you live in Montgomery, Alabama.
You just move there.
They had drones back then, which is nuts.
That's like 1962 or something like that.
61, whatever it was.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, you just load up a vehicle with a bunch of explosives and put a rock on the gas pedal.
joe rogan
I wonder if they knew how to land them or they just knew how to take them off.
You know what I mean?
It's a drone-like jumbo jet.
I wonder what they actually knew how to do back then, if they could actually land it.
daniel h wilson
One thing I've always wondered is if you're driving a drone all day, you know, and you, like, are the human being that does pull the trigger, like, wouldn't it be nicer for the government to put, like, a big black sensor bar, like, over it before you see all the little people get turned into chunks of meat?
joe rogan
Yeah.
daniel h wilson
Just for your own sanity?
joe rogan
I don't think...
Well, do they look at it through that night vision thing that we see?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, that heat, that thermal stuff, right?
joe rogan
Dude, that's weird, too, right?
daniel h wilson
Have you watched those videos?
joe rogan
They're horrific.
daniel h wilson
The crazy thing is you hear...
The guys, they speak so clinically, right?
They're like, okay, engage target.
And they sound like airline pilots.
And then they pull that trigger and you hear the guns firing because you're there inside the Apache helicopter or whatever.
And then it actually takes like five seconds for the bullets to go like two miles.
And then all the little people start, you know, flying around.
It's pretty crazy to watch.
joe rogan
It's bizarre.
It's bizarre.
I mean, it's just the weirdest way of eliminating people.
It's so clinical.
It's so detached.
It's weird.
We're killing people from a mile away.
daniel h wilson
What's a landmine, though?
A landmine is basically a robot, right?
To define robots, when people ask me, I always say, It's any kind of mechanical artifact that senses the environment, thinks about what to do, and then acts on its own and does the whole sense-think-act deal.
And that's what a landmine does.
It sits around and senses, waits on a human whenever a human steps on it, makes a simple decision to explode.
joe rogan
Wow.
Yeah.
How many of those are allowed?
Aren't there a bunch around from the Vietnam War that they still haven't detonated yet?
daniel h wilson
I don't think the United States...
It's allowed.
I think they're outlawed, and I'm pretty sure that we conform to that in most circumstances.
But yeah, there's a ton of them that are left.
And there's not just landmines, right?
There's underwater mines for submarines, right?
So they hang out on the bottom of the ocean, and they are able to This is what's interesting.
These are old, too.
These are from the 60s.
They can target nuclear submarines, and these landmines are complicated as shit.
So they sit there and they listen for the acoustic signature of whatever comes past, and then they identify what type of craft it is.
Based on that, they choose different loitering strategies about how to follow it and how to get close enough to detonate.
And then they chase, and then they eventually explode.
They do all this stuff.
Targeting.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
And some of them are still down there.
There's some areas where submarines can't go.
daniel h wilson
I imagine, but I'm not an expert on that.
I've read about all this equipment.
It's cool stuff.
joe rogan
The landmines are crazy.
The idea that you're just going to go to war with anything that touches these things and just blow them up.
That would be an ethical idea.
daniel h wilson
So now, in order to make them more ethical, there are lots of new landmines that I've read about.
The self-healing minefield is one of my favorites.
It's a minefield where the landmines can locomote a little bit, so you spread them out, and then if something comes through, they basically set up a local area network, so each landmine kind of has basically Wi-Fi, and they're talking to each other, so they kind of know where each other are at.
Then if some of them get blown up, other ones are able to hop, and they just do these little hops until they Until they evenly distribute themselves again.
And so then you've got this what they call a self-healing minefield.
But that's nothing compared to the crab mines, the ones that are designed to be dropped offshore.
And they've got crab legs and they scuttle up on the bottom of the ocean up to the...
Up through the beach, basically.
And then onto land, and that's how you mine beaches.
unidentified
Like those walking mime, or bombs from Mario Brothers.
daniel h wilson
Exactly.
unidentified
Bomb bombs.
Another example of video games becoming real.
joe rogan
Dude, dude, dude, dude, dude.
daniel h wilson
You don't want to get hit by a turtle shell.
joe rogan
What happens?
These crabs go in the water, and they run up onto the beach?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I mean, it's a good example of what they call biomimetics.
joe rogan
How big are they?
daniel h wilson
Well, they're about the size of a crab, I mean.
I've seen descriptions of that.
I've never seen a real one of those, and I don't think those are really in use.
But it's a great example of if you want to build a machine that's going to operate in a certain environment, you think of the environment as a problem, right?
The problem is how do you locomote on the bottom of the ocean in the pounding surf?
How do you do that?
Well, there are answers to all these problems.
There are animals, right?
A lobster is the answer to that problem.
A crab is the answer to that problem.
And so you go and you study the animals, and then you take the basic principles about how they locomote and how they do whatever, and then you distill them down, you stick them into a robot.
So no matter where you want to go, there's usually a solution to that problem in the form of an animal that you can study.
unidentified
And then I push up my glasses onto my nose.
joe rogan
Jesus!
The idea that you could make like a million little robot mine crabs and just unleash them on a beach.
daniel h wilson
Dude, that's like the third chapter of Robopocalypse.
joe rogan
Is it really?
daniel h wilson
Well, hell yeah, that's too cool not to put into a book, right?
joe rogan
Oh, fuck yeah.
daniel h wilson
I got this part where they're all walking across Boston, like they're walking across this plaza.
joe rogan
Spoiler alert!
daniel h wilson
They sense vibration through their feet, right?
And so whenever they sense the vibration, they raise their little feet up in the air and they all kind of do it at a pat...
I don't know what's going to be in this movie, but there are some things that, God, I just want to see it.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
That's awesome, man.
Wow.
I can't wait to read it.
When you wrote this, is this something that was in your head for a while before you wrote it?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, man.
These are ideas that have just been sort of percolating around for a really long time.
My first book was How to Survive a Robot Uprising.
I was just making fun of all the Hollywood BS where robots are killing.
I specifically made fun of...
Stuff I love, like The Matrix and Terminator.
Of course I love it.
I'm thinking about it.
But then I kind of went to the dark side, you know?
Wrote that fiction, you know, science fiction.
Killer robots.
They're sexy, man.
They got biblical themes built in.
Like, they make for great drama.
joe rogan
Do you look at the idea of technology and robots as like a life form?
That human beings are responsible for igniting and starting in the world.
Marshall McLuhan, I think it was, someone just told me this quote the other day.
It's a brilliant quote.
He said that humans are the sex organs of machines.
Isn't that a beautiful quote?
daniel h wilson
There's ways of looking at...
See, this is one thing that, as a roboticist, you have to do this.
You have to look at a human being from a totally alien perspective, right?
And I have a point, but...
If you look at how to do speech recognition or emotion recognition, from a robot's perspective, we are just moving pieces of flesh around on our faces into different configurations, and then that conveys some sort of inner chemical state...
I mean, it's not intuitive.
It's not easy to figure out.
You can look at humankind as like, all we do is we cover the earth in lawns.
We are slaves to grass.
If it wasn't for us, grass wouldn't really exist everywhere that it does.
So if you look at human beings from sort of these alien perspectives, sometimes cool shit falls out.
And some people do think that it's our destiny to create the next intelligent life form, you know, and to set it free.
And then those people usually think that it's our turn to retire.
Hans Moravec.
He says, you know, once we do this, children of the mind, right?
Once we make the robots, then we're done.
We're finished.
Like, we achieved our goal.
I disagree.
joe rogan
It's so terrifying, but the idea that there's a reason why dinosaurs aren't around anymore.
Because, you know, they...
They got wiped out.
Something better came along.
We like to think.
And it's called people.
Now, we're the new head of the planet.
But why would we think that we can hold this spot forever?
I mean, it doesn't make any sense.
daniel h wilson
Well, I think that we're going to evolve with our tools.
joe rogan
Yeah.
So, are we going to become a part of a computer?
Are we going to become a symbiotic organism?
daniel h wilson
You know, I just...
So, I wrote a book about it.
It's called Amped, and it came out this year.
And it's basically...
Yeah, it's about thinking about, like...
What happens when we start integrating this technology into our own bodies?
And just not thinking about crazy science fiction, far out stuff, just thinking about right now.
What's really cool about this to me is that the people who are getting this, are people that have real serious disabilities.
People who are willing to have a hole drilled in their skull and a neural implant placed on the surface of their brain to improve their quality of life.
And it's not like Tony Stark or rich kids that are getting a leg up in school.
It's like the most vulnerable, challenged people in our society are getting this technology.
And in some cases, it's making them It's not bringing them back to normal.
It's taking them past normal.
And so people with disabilities are like becoming people with super abilities.
And it's a pretty cool trend to watch.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
That's amazing.
daniel h wilson
Because, I mean, what's it going to be like when you realize that, hey, if you really do want to be the fastest sprinter on the planet, you've got to cut your legs off.
Because, like, there's just no way to do it.
unidentified
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
That hurts my brain.
daniel h wilson
Or be lucky enough to be born.
joe rogan
You know why that hurts?
Because I know someone's going to do it.
daniel h wilson
That's, you know, you think about...
joe rogan
Don't you think someone's going to do it?
daniel h wilson
Armstrong and, you know, I don't know.
joe rogan
You mean Neil Armstrong?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
The guy who went on the moon?
daniel h wilson
No.
joe rogan
Oh, that Lance guy?
daniel h wilson
That Lance guy.
joe rogan
Well, do you make that akin to hacking your legs off, taking performance-enhancing drugs?
I think that's a little bit crazier.
daniel h wilson
No, there's a leap, right?
I mean, there's definitely a leap, which is you've got to go back to go forward, right?
Because without performance-enhancing drugs, you're still not disabled.
Like Oscar Pistorius, he competed in the London 2012 Olympics, right?
The guy has no legs below the knees.
He ran alongside able-bodied athletes on prosthetics, super advanced prosthetics.
If you take those prosthetics off of him, he ain't going anywhere, right?
And that's the difference.
I mean, if you take somebody off of performance-enhancing drugs, they're still capable of doing whatever it is that they were doing, just slower or not as well or whatever.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's an interesting thing, the performance-enhancing drug thing, because By keeping it secret and by hiding it and by sneaking around it.
Take all the moral arguments out of it.
When it comes to cheating and achieving victory and unseemly methods...
daniel h wilson
Most of the people that do that, they think that they have to do it in order to compete.
They think there's hidden rules, right?
And they're keeping with the hidden rules.
joe rogan
But I think it's also really dishonest to the actual...
The issue becomes...
It's dishonest to the actual idea of human ability.
Because human ability under these incredibly enhanced conditions is quite a bit more than a regular person's ability.
So we have these distorted perceptions of records that have been achieved through...
We need to know.
If we're going to all decide that they're going to take...
daniel h wilson
We're looking for bedrock.
We want that definition of human, straight up natural human.
I want to compare myself to Babe Ruth and have that shit be a straight comparison.
joe rogan
Yeah, and it gets to be a weird situation when you've got a bunch of people introducing all these alien things into the body.
And eventually it probably will be parts.
It probably will be.
That's why this is scaring me so much when you said that.
Because I'm thinking of someone actually chopping their legs off and giving themselves robot legs.
daniel h wilson
Well, you know, I don't...
joe rogan
Somebody would fucking do it, man.
daniel h wilson
There's a cool book called Machine Man by Max Berry, which...
I love any book that's written from the perspective of, like, an autistic person.
Because a person with Asperger's, you know, because if you read books that are from those perspectives, they tend to be really Hemingway-esque.
Like, the short sentences, they're easy to read.
I really like them.
But anyway, there's a book where that happens.
It's a good one.
Machine Man.
unidentified
But...
joe rogan
Do you think that it would be as simple as we would engineer them so we could shut them off?
daniel h wilson
Robots?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Is it possible?
daniel h wilson
Well, no.
I mean, think about...
Okay, sure.
Think about that.
You shut them off.
I mean, so if you have a robot that...
You know, you don't shut an elevator off whenever it's got like 20 people on it.
It's 100 stories up.
Like, there are circumstances where...
You know, you have to have, what do they call it, graceful failure or graceful degradation or something, where it needs to fail gracefully.
It can't just fail all at once.
So if you shut it down, it needs to shut down its stages so that it doesn't hurt people.
But yeah, I think kill switches, emergency stops, those are a huge aspect of building safe robots, you know, but it's not the whole story.
joe rogan
It seems like the real issue would be how much of the human ideal of life would be programmed into it.
If you were going to engineer a life form, which essentially you would be able to do if you had a robot and you turn this computer into some sort of a sentient being, what aspects of the human psyche would you engineer into it?
Would you engineer into it a sense of survival?
Would it be able to understand that that's illogical and override it if it was that strong and if you gave it some autonomy?
Or would it just go with it?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, you know, the thing that's scary about this is there are an infinite number of minds that you could really create.
You could create totally alien minds that just meditate on things that we could never comprehend.
You know, you could create minds...
I'm freaking everybody out.
joe rogan
You're freaking me out.
Totally freaking me out.
daniel h wilson
I think there's some story I read where there's...
Actually, I wrote a story where there was basically a robot that was designed to paint happy faces on things and then it goes nuts and runs amok and it just paints happy faces on everything and it ends up destroying the universe, painting happy faces because that's the way it sees the world.
I think there are a lot of people who think a lot about Ray Kurzweil, for instance.
He's really obsessed with this idea That we're going to upload our brains into machines and that we will basically have a machine that simulates every neuron in your brain and then you'll live inside and you'll live forever inside the box, right?
That's a great example of giving a human experience, like a human life to a machine so that it knows what things are like from our perspective.
So it knows you don't step on babies when you're walking across the room.
That innate nature that we have.
I think it's important that we do convey our ethics to the machines that we build so that they behave in a way that allows us to co-exist.
joe rogan
Hopefully, or we're done, son.
It's one or the other.
Because if it's us versus them, they're going to be able to figure shit out so quickly.
They're going to be able to make better versions of themselves very quickly.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, and that's the idea of the singularity, right?
It just bears definition.
We create a machine that's smart enough to make itself smarter, and then you kind of have a runaway feedback loop, and it gets smarter and smarter.
But I don't think that that's something that is really going to happen anytime soon.
joe rogan
But isn't it a possibility?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I absolutely think that's why.
joe rogan
So why would you be confident in thinking that it's not going to happen?
daniel h wilson
Well, because it's sort of like if we were live with Jules Verne and we were discussing, like, well, what shape should the capsule be when we go to the moon?
You know, it's like we're not close enough to solving that problem to sort of make informed decisions about how we should solve it.
You see what I mean?
joe rogan
Right, I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
daniel h wilson
We're going to have other robots in our lives a lot sooner, and those have more immediate problems to solve.
Ethical problems, too.
joe rogan
Yeah, like robot fuck dolls.
daniel h wilson
Right?
joe rogan
For sure.
For sure, that's going to be an ethical issue.
It's going to be like a slavery-type issue.
If you have a really good form of intelligent life that you've created, it's an artificial intelligence, and you have it as a sex slave, that would be fucked up, man.
daniel h wilson
The sentient thing, like the thing where they're smart enough to...
For us to worry about all these ethical things.
I think that's far away.
joe rogan
You think so?
daniel h wilson
No, it's all about human beings, man.
So for instance, the real problem when you make a fuck doll is do you allow a person to...
What happens to the people who interact with it?
So if you have a guy who goes home every day and he beats the crap out of this doll, is that okay?
If you built the doll, should the doll call the police?
Should the doll take it?
And your decision there, as a roboticist, as a scientist, product designer, whatever you are, you're designing an ethical interaction between your product and a human being.
And your decision can affect whether this guy Hurts a real woman, you know?
Or if you're building toys for children or really lifelike pets, you know, and a kid sticks the fake dog into the microwave, like, what happens, you know?
Because my gut feeling is not okay, right?
joe rogan
Yeah.
daniel h wilson
The animal should react.
And there's actually research on this.
My wife's a child psychologist at University of Washington University.
She's in Portland, where I live, but before she was at UW. And they have this research there where they basically took...
Let me see if I can get this straight, because it's kind of fascinating.
They take these kids and have them play tic-tac-toe against a virtual head, right?
It looks like a person.
And then they have a scientist walk in, and in half of the experiments, the scientist says to the robot head, Hey, that was a really dumbass move.
You're stupid.
And then half the time, the robot says...
Nothing.
And the other half the time, the robot says, hey, it's not okay for you to talk to me like that.
And when they ask the kids later, Whether the virtual head deserved to be treated with respect or whether it was smart.
They asked these kids all these questions.
If the robot demanded moral treatment, then the kids thought that the robot deserved moral treatment.
If it didn't, they thought it was okay to abuse it.
And so it comes right back down to it.
When you build a robot, you're building an ethical interaction.
joe rogan
Wow.
daniel h wilson
You can mess it up, I feel like.
joe rogan
That's fascinating.
Yeah, you can't allow something to just be brutalized and to take punishment.
You can't make a person.
You can't make an artificial person.
daniel h wilson
Can you imagine that future, right?
Where people are followed around with perfectly human-like robots and they just abuse them?
joe rogan
Just beat the shit out of them.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, man.
That would very quickly warp, I think, the psyche.
joe rogan
Oh yeah, of humans.
It would create sociopaths.
daniel h wilson
Because, yeah, we acclimate to whatever we're around, you know?
joe rogan
Yeah, especially if it's indistinguishable.
brian redban
Unless we're already robots.
daniel h wilson
And we don't know it.
joe rogan
What do you buy with this simulation theory thing, man?
Do you ever wrap your head around that?
Do you ever fuck with that?
daniel h wilson
No, lay it on me.
joe rogan
It's this new thing, and these are legitimate scientists that are considering this.
unidentified
It's the Matrix thing?
brian redban
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
The damn Matrix again?
The idea that we're in some sort of an incredible computer program, and that it's so complicated.
And so well done that it's indistinguishable from real life and that we're interacting with things, but that the more they study string theory, they're studying in the computations of string theory, they keep finding this self-correcting computer code.
I don't understand what that means, but I understand it's a very specific type of computer code that we didn't even figure out until the early 20th century.
I think they said we figured it out in the 40s or 50s or something like that, if I remember correctly, but...
The idea that this is in these string theory equations that they're putting together.
I don't understand mathematics, but what I think they're trying to say is like, there's an eerie code to all this.
It's not just like, we don't know what the code is, but we can see that there's some repeating patterns.
No, no, no, no.
It's a very specific type of code.
And that's when they're studying the nature of reality.
So the nature of reality, and it's like one of its smallest measurable forms, is very obviously computer code.
brian redban
Seven.
joe rogan
42. It doesn't seem like if technology moves in the direction it's going right now.
If our computers get more and more powerful or our CGI shit is more and more believable, we've got to keep moving until one day we reach a point where we can simulate reality.
It's going to happen.
And if it's really fucking good, it's going to be just like this.
daniel h wilson
Dude, is that a...
I'm trying to think.
Running Man.
joe rogan
Is that a Running Man?
daniel h wilson
That's whenever they recreate the fight, you know, out of the computer models.
I mean, before all that happens, we're going to be able to...
I can't wait until the day when I can say, all right, television, whatever you are now.
I want to watch, like, Running Man, but I want, instead of Arnold, you know, I want Jeremy Renner, and I want, like...
brian redban
No, Megan Fox.
daniel h wilson
I want an all-female cast of...
Yes.
joe rogan
I want, yeah.
And you have to follow them with a reality show camera as well.
daniel h wilson
And it just maps them.
joe rogan
Get them all in a house together, make them live together.
brian redban
Oh, that's awesome.
daniel h wilson
It just maps their bodies onto it, you know?
And that would be like the ultimate ironic one to watch because they do that in the movie.
joe rogan
How long before we have our first robot action hero?
daniel h wilson
Wait, so what do you mean by robot action?
brian redban
Robocop?
joe rogan
Well, like a guy in the movies.
unidentified
A robot actor?
joe rogan
Yeah, like a robot actor.
You know, so I... You would have like all Ryan O'Neill's qualities with, you know, a little...
Arnold Schwarzenegger's masculine bravado and...
You know, Brad Pitt's acting chops or whatever.
You know, just mix it all up together and make the perfect robot action hero.
brian redban
Joe's pouty lips.
joe rogan
My lips are not pouty.
brian redban
Yeah, they are, dude.
They're so pouty.
joe rogan
Son of a bitch.
Son of a bitch.
brian redban
Do you get injections in them?
joe rogan
I just punch myself in the face.
I hate myself.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I'm sorry.
All I'm sitting here thinking, I'm just thinking of Calculon from Futurama.
unidentified
Calculon!
daniel h wilson
Sorry, he's like, he's an actor.
A robot actor.
He's a robot actor!
joe rogan
Is that possible?
Could they ever make, like, you know, are we going to have human beings that are that indistinguishable?
daniel h wilson
The question is, like, would you bother, because you could just create them in CG, right, and make them perfectly realistic, would you bother creating the real world version?
But I have to say, I'm super excited because I have a short story that got picked up by this director.
He's sort of a budding guy in London, right?
But he's making a short film based on this thing and he's negotiating with...
It's a story about a guy and a robot boy that he lives with because his real son has passed away.
And we got Lambert Wilson, the Merovingian, is going to be in this thing.
And then he's working with a university to get an actual robot.
There's this thing called the N.A.O. Humanoid.
It's the size of an eight to ten year old kid.
If you Google it, I mean, it moves like a real human being.
And they're going to have it as an actor.
It's just a short film, but, I mean, it's going to be pretty cool.
It's going to be a real robot acting in a movie.
joe rogan
Whoa.
Goddamn, man.
I saw that there was a very intricate Japanese robot.
It was a woman.
Have you seen that one?
It was very emotive.
daniel h wilson
Well, it was a woman head.
joe rogan
Yeah, it was just a head.
daniel h wilson
Okay, because there's the actroid.
Is that the NAO? Is this it?
See, that's not the one I was thinking of.
I got the wrong name.
unidentified
This is so freaky.
This is so weird.
joe rogan
There's a robot on the screen.
Folks that are listening to this on iTunes, there's this robot on the screen and it's walking around.
It's so weird.
Oh my god, they're so good now.
I mean, they really are like what we hoped robots would be when we were kids.
Remember Lost in Space?
That stupid fucking garbage can?
That was a garbage can robot.
That was the dumbest looking robot ever!
Danger, Will Robinson!
Danger!
daniel h wilson
All he had was those little Tyrannosaurus arms that were just out on him.
joe rogan
Yeah, he had arms that would clip, and he had to do their bidding, always.
daniel h wilson
People loved him.
unidentified
People still loved him.
joe rogan
Yeah, they loved that robot.
daniel h wilson
People are really obsessed with that robot.
joe rogan
What was that robot's name?
daniel h wilson
He was Robbie.
joe rogan
Robbie the Robot?
daniel h wilson
Really?
Yeah, from Lost in Space, but he was in a lot of stuff.
joe rogan
Oh, really?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, and there were different versions of him.
He's always hard for me to pin down in my head, because he was around for a while, but...
joe rogan
Brian, pull up Robbie the Robot.
Let's see what that looks like.
I haven't looked at that in years.
daniel h wilson
So one kind of cool thing about robots that I've noticed.
No.
brian redban
That's Robbie and his friend Jeff.
joe rogan
No.
unidentified
Robbie the Robot.
daniel h wilson
What were they doing to each other?
joe rogan
This is Robbie the Robot, man.
It looks like that.
You see that, Brian?
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
He was actually pretty badass.
His arms would just come out of the center of his chest.
But he always had to listen, no matter what.
Will Robinson would be like, listen, bitch, we're gonna go exploring.
brian redban
He was like the first gay robot, right?
joe rogan
No, no, no, no.
The other dude was the gay guy.
Because Lost in Space was a weird show.
They had a guy who acted really obviously gay.
brian redban
Look at that.
That looks like a fucking disco floor.
Look at that, though.
Seriously, those are gay robots.
joe rogan
What was the dude's name?
unidentified
Was it Vincent Price or somebody?
joe rogan
No, no, no.
How dare you?
unidentified
So do you like this TV? Oh, I love this TV. Do you like this show?
joe rogan
The original Lost in Space was a crazy show, man.
It was from 1965 to 1968. They would land on planets and shit.
daniel h wilson
Well, they were marooned.
It was like Gilligan's Island, except they were on some tiny planet.
joe rogan
Yeah.
daniel h wilson
There have been some great ones.
I mean, I always used to love Small Wonder when I was a kid, you know?
That was one with Vicky, the robot who, the dad is a roboticist and he brings her home to test her out.
She sleeps in his son's closet.
joe rogan
Jonathan Harris was Dr. Zachary Smith.
Dr. Zachary Smith was like the first, like, pretty obviously gay character on television.
daniel h wilson
That might have just been all the spandex unitards that they were wearing on that show.
joe rogan
Well, he was very eccentric.
I mean, in this really feminine, apologizing, sobbing way.
daniel h wilson
He was the villain, right?
unidentified
Sort of.
daniel h wilson
He was always the scheming bad guy.
joe rogan
He was always dumb.
He was ruining things.
Stupid.
Stupid Dr. Smith.
And his ego would always be his folly.
That was a great show, man.
Well, they're really fun to watch today.
Because it's like, you know, they thought this was going to be like 1990. Like, that's how we're going to be living.
Like, living in colonies in space.
And so this sort of idea of, like, man, space travel never really materialized the way a lot of people thought it was from the 1960s.
So you get this weird idea of what they thought the future was going to be from these shows.
It's really fascinating.
daniel h wilson
You know, I think they actually misjudged human nature.
Like, there's this idea that We've accomplished this amazing feat by going to the moon, right?
We planted a flag.
We walked around.
We went into the uncharted depths, the wilderness.
It's an amazing thing to do.
And you think that that sort of raw awe-inspiring event is going to propel mankind into the stars.
But actually, we were just competing with the Russians.
And it was just, it was enough to put a flag there.
And the instant that we need to go beyond that, I think, is the instant that some other nation plants a flag next to ours or knocks it down.
joe rogan
Or plants a flag on Mars.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I mean, it's all about just like pissing on trees, you know?
The trees just keep getting further away from Earth.
joe rogan
Well, it's also to let you know, like, look, if we can go to the moon, we can launch missiles on your head from space, dude.
daniel h wilson
I'm going to let you know.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm going to let you know.
I'm going to let you know how we run and shit from orbit, bitch.
I mean, to be the first person to set up a base on the moon would be an incredible military advantage.
daniel h wilson
I think the Chinese are going to do it.
I think it's going to be a great thing because it's going to excite those...
joe rogan
Dude, could you imagine...
If we actually start having bases on the moon, if people actually started doing that, if they developed the technology to one day have bases on the moon, and we would go there, like going to fucking Hawaii.
It's like a 24-hour trip in the shuttle.
brian redban
I totally believe that.
unidentified
Dude.
brian redban
Because, I mean, it's like something tragic is going to happen.
Like, you know, like a lot of the land is going to be poisoned or something.
Well, the moon is fucked, man.
joe rogan
They would have to terraform on the moon because the moon doesn't have an atmosphere.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, that ain't going to happen.
joe rogan
They could do that someday.
That's the whole premise of Prometheus, that they were terraforming that planet.
They were trying to make it habitable for their life form.
They're going to be able to do that, for sure, one day.
daniel h wilson
People always argue that we're going to screw Earth up so bad that then we're going to have to go to Mars, the moon.
But the resource expenditure to leave Earth With a lot of people and even just to go to the moon, much less Mars, is so out of whack.
I mean, you'd be better off like almost doing anything to fix the Earth or just eking it out here.
I mean, let's face it.
If you poison the Earth's atmosphere so that you can't even walk outside anymore or you screw up the atmosphere so that we're getting radiation from...
Well, guess what?
That's Mars.
Why go to Mars to build a fucking dome, right?
Just build a dome in Arizona, right?
You don't have to go to Mars first.
joe rogan
No shit.
daniel h wilson
Fix this, stupid.
I've always thought that was bullshit, the idea that we're going to mess up Earth so bad we have to go to Mars.
joe rogan
The only way I could think that we could do that, though, is like nuclear shit.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, okay.
joe rogan
If there's a massive nuclear holocaust all across the country, across the world, we all launch bombs at each other and just wipe out.
They would make so many areas radioactive.
They would almost be like, you can't live here anymore.
daniel h wilson
You know, that would still be pretty tough to do, I think.
Just because, like...
joe rogan
Really?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, because you'd have to launch all of them at the exact same time, right?
And then they'd have to land all over the Europe.
I mean, if you think about when we first got nukes, we were doing crazy shit.
We were launching them all the time in space, underground, in the water.
joe rogan
On the show, we showed a video of all the nuclear explosions from 1947. It's online.
You can get it.
It's on...
I forget the website, but it shows the first tests, and then it shows Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and it shows all these different ones that they did in Nevada.
Nevada's crazy!
daniel h wilson
Oh, dude, they were nuking the shit out of everything.
So my favorite is Project Plowshares.
This is like Iowa or something.
And here's the notion.
We're gonna mine for natural gas...
The gas is trapped in all these...
Now we run water through it.
It's called fracking, right?
But they're like, we're going to free up all this natural gas and harvest it by detonating a nuke under the ground.
So they drill this giant hole.
They drill this giant hole.
They put a nuke at the bottom of it.
They fill the hole up.
And then they detonate the nuke.
Here's what happens.
Highly irradiated natural gas shoots out of this chimney.
It ejects all the crap they put in there.
It goes into the atmosphere.
All of the natural gas is poisonous.
It's got radiation in it.
And they're like, oh, well, that's not a good idea.
It's so much for turning swords to plowshares, right?
joe rogan
When did they do this?
daniel h wilson
This is like...
This was not that long ago.
I would say the middle of the 20th century, but I don't know for sure.
Here's why I know about it.
joe rogan
Do you know what the name of the operation is called?
daniel h wilson
I think it was called Project Plowshares.
joe rogan
Project Plowshares.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, look it up.
The reason I like it is because I was thinking, and this is a little bit of a spoiler, but while I was writing Robo-Apocalypse, I was thinking, look, if I was a super intelligent AI, right, I'm not going to hang out and have all my processors in a place where humans are going to be comfortable, right?
So what's my fortress of solitude, right?
So when these nukes detonate, they vaporize a spherical chunk of, like, rock underground, and they create this chamber.
And the walls turn to glass, right?
Bubble.
Deep under the ground.
Highly radioactive.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
daniel h wilson
It is the ultimate fortress of solitude.
And it's of course where my bad guy lives.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
daniel h wilson
Sorry, I kind of blew that for anybody that's going to read.
joe rogan
Dude, that's dope though.
I want to read that again.
That is a dope idea that we would create a place where the bad guy lives because we're so stupid we blew up nukes in a hole that we dug into the ground.
daniel h wilson
That is true.
You know, it's always, it's what with the hubris.
You know, all the hubris.
joe rogan
That's insanity.
I can't even believe.
Now, is that a case of people just having too much power because it's a military project to do whatever they want to do and the scientists are allowed to say, hey, let's try this, like some wacky scientist?
daniel h wilson
This may not be a popular viewpoint, but I think it's awesome.
I think it's optimism.
I think it's like...
The human race as a little kid who has stumbled across this awesome new toy and they're like, what can we do with it?
Oh, let's try everything!
Because in the 50s, we had used technology to end World War II. People were high on technology.
They were like, man, technology is going to do everything for us.
We're going to eat it.
It's going to be food pills.
We're not even going to have to eat this bullshit that Earth creates for us.
We've come full circle now.
It's all about organic and...
We're afraid of chemicals and afraid of technology.
But, you know, in the 50s, that was like the golden age.
It was like, we're going to have atomic pens, you know?
I don't know why we need atomic energy in our pens, but damn it, we're going to have it.
And I wrote a book called Where's My Jetpack that covers all this stuff.
I'm sorry, I keep dropping all these book names.
joe rogan
Dude, your books sound fucking awesome.
brian redban
I know, right?
joe rogan
I even had a joke about you'll never have weed and jetpacks together at the same time.
daniel h wilson
Inebriated human torpedoes.
Yeah, that's what happens.
joe rogan
Plus, no one would work.
Because why would you show up at work when you could smoke pot and fly?
There'd be very few things that you would be having more fun at than smoking pot and flying around in a jetpack.
daniel h wilson
Or would we just be in a future where Louis C.K. stands in front of an audience and says, Why is everybody complaining about jetpacks?
You're flying, people!
joe rogan
Well, that would definitely happen.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, we would just get so sick of it.
Oh, fucking jetpacks.
I've always got bugs in my teeth.
joe rogan
I'm tired of getting my natural gas to fuel my jetpack.
You know, why can't we make a fucking solar jetpack?
It's 2037. Yeah, we'll always complain, for sure.
But that's why things get better.
daniel h wilson
Exactly, I agree.
joe rogan
It's really important.
You've got to be able to silence even the most bitter of critics.
There's certain things to do.
A badass jetpack, I think, would be that.
You can actually have a compact, sort of a light backpack, sort of size thing that you can actually fly around with.
daniel h wilson
So I can give you the lowdown on the jetpack, because I remember all this stuff.
So in the 40s, Wendell Moore got a grant from the Army to build a jetpack, and so he's working for Bell Aerosystems.
This is a guy who specializes in building small rocket engines, basically.
Airplanes that are flying really, really high.
There's not a lot of atmosphere, so they can't plane off of it.
So in order to change direction, they fire these little rockets.
It's like a spacecraft type deal.
So he took one of these little rockets and he literally strapped it onto his back and tethered himself to the ground and just turned it on.
And he broke his knee.
He shattered his knee, actually, immediately.
But it worked.
So then he literally hired the kid who mowed his lawn, a guy named Bill Suter, who was like 19, Hale and Hardy, to test the jetpack.
And they had a working model of the jetpack.
It's called a rocket belt.
It's literally a rocket.
And that's the problem, is that you just take the hydrogen peroxide and silver, or whatever, and you put them together.
And then it creates an explosion.
And the real hard thing is to throttle it so you don't just explode.
And then it runs out of juice in like 30 seconds.
It's got a terrible fuel to weight ratio.
And that's the problem.
They put a buzzer in the helmet.
Because they showed that Bill Suter would take these things to the Olympics.
They were in that Bond movie.
They would do this for demonstrations to make money after the program was scrapped.
And they put a buzzer in the helmet that would buzz after 20 seconds, basically saying, you better land right now.
You got 10 seconds before you just turn into a ballast.
joe rogan
I was at WPBI. My friend Willie has a radio show there, and they did this thing in the parking lot where a dude flew a jetpack.
And we got a video of it.
What did he throw?
Were you there for that one?
No.
It's loud.
He flew it for like 30 seconds, I think.
That's like all it had.
You can only do it for like a minute.
daniel h wilson
I think they got it up to a minute or something.
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's pretty crazy, but this guy's fucked his legs up.
Both of his knees are blown out from doing this.
His ACLs are gone, so he's all fucked up from just crashing with this thing.
The thing you would have to worry about is anything that has enough power to get you to be flying in the air has enough power to...
Speed you into something.
People would be smacking into each other.
There would be no way they would let you just have a jetpack.
You would have to have some sort of a bumper car outer shell.
daniel h wilson
I think that's a great example of applying a current mindset to a technology that's in the future.
If they were really going to make it, there's no way to make it safe.
It would have to be Controlled by a robot, basically.
joe rogan
It would have to be like Google cars.
Those Google cars.
Those Google cars are essentially driving around now.
brian redban
A lot of people in Seattle were talking about how they see them all the time on the freeway just driving around like a guy in the back seat and no one in the front seat.
joe rogan
Jesus!
What the fuck is that like for that dude in the back seat?
This car's hitting the blankers and shit.
It knows when to change lanes.
daniel h wilson
I got into one of those at Carnegie Mellon where I went to school and I got into their autonomous car...
And drove with it in the back seat while it was driving, going around like a test track, right?
And it was, okay, first of all, the wheel is turning by itself, right?
And you're in the back.
So that's weird, right?
But then it starts to kind of feel like, I mean, it doesn't wreck immediately.
And so you sort of start to loosen up a little bit.
And you get the feeling that you're like on a ride, you know, like, and you start to trust it.
Like, When you're on a roller coaster, no one's driving it.
You feel like you're safe.
But then what happens is...
I started realizing this car, it didn't know I was inside it, right?
So it's tolerant, the tolerances for a car with nobody inside of it are very different than the tolerances of a car.
So it would like hit the, it would sort of sense that there was something there that wasn't, you know, and it would kind of swerve.
And it would throw you around like really hard.
And you realize...
It doesn't give a shit.
It isn't going to be like doing the mom thing where it throws the hand out in front of you like, oh, sorry, dear.
This thing is just driving to the tolerance of the engineering that it's designed for.
And we're just being thrown around in the back.
joe rogan
Was the car losing traction at any point?
daniel h wilson
It was always safe.
It was seeing how fast it could go because they're competitive.
The DARPA Grand Challenge, the DARPA Urban Challenge...
They had to go as fast as they could, and they didn't have a human in them at all.
brian redban
That's scary.
daniel h wilson
So now Google's different.
You know, Google just bought Stanford's team, essentially.
There's a guy named Sebastian Thrun who got me into school at CMU, and then he worked on the autonomous cars at Stanford, because Stanford bought him.
And then Google bought They took Sebastian and now, I mean this guy, Sebastian Thrun, he's going to change the world.
He's going to introduce autonomous vehicles.
It's going to change our cities.
It's going to save lives.
It's really cool.
I'm really proud of him.
joe rogan
That's awesome, man.
That's amazing.
So do you think that's the future, that everyone will have their own personal autonomous vehicle and they'll queue in on the highways and whatever and you'll be able to read the newspaper and your little vehicle won't be in control of it anymore?
daniel h wilson
Well, the first thing, I'm not sure if people are really doing this where they're in the back outside of a closed course.
These cars require a person to be behind the wheel to take the blame if it wrecks.
joe rogan
Oh, I see.
daniel h wilson
So you're just sort of like a big, meaty, blame, piece of blame machinery.
Like, that's the only part you play in this whole thing.
brian redban
That's going to be a job in the future, though, like a fry guy, but you're going to be sitting in the backseat of a car being the blame me.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm a blame guy.
daniel h wilson
In Ampt, there's a truck driver who all he does is he sits in the front seat and he's just there to take the blame.
That's his whole job.
joe rogan
Wow.
daniel h wilson
And he just drives cross-country 24-7 in these trucks.
It will be a job, you know?
joe rogan
Yeah, there will be a time where there are these robot machines just moving back and forth across the country carrying goods.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, and you think about it, and it's like, what is it that you can't put into the car?
And it's morality, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, and he has to make certain decisions, like what do you do if a horse is in front of you?
daniel h wilson
Yeah.
joe rogan
Do you hit it?
Or do you slam on the brakes and risk losing control of the vehicle?
brian redban
Or do you fuck it?
daniel h wilson
Or do you just slow down, put your arm outside the window and say, hey, hey, what you doing?
joe rogan
Yeah, like people have said that.
About small animals.
If you see a squirrel, you should just hit them.
Because if you swerve...
People die all the time from swerving to get away from squirrels.
daniel h wilson
But if it's a baby carriage...
Yeah, it's a different thing.
This is what got Will Smith all uptight in iRobot, right?
Where at the end, the big reveal for his character is he's like...
A robot saved my life from a car, but it let the little girl next to me die because the probability of saving her life was lower.
And it's like, how are you going to blame the robot for that?
That's like saying I put my finger in a pencil sharpener and it cut me.
That's what it's designed to do.
You're not going to hate the pencil sharpener.
joe rogan
Well, you are for a movie, though, because the middle of America is not going to understand.
daniel h wilson
I was bummed when that happened.
I was digging that movie, and then I was like, oh, that's weak.
joe rogan
The CGI in that movie was dope.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, you know what cracked up.
joe rogan
Amazing work.
daniel h wilson
All those robots go nuts, right?
And what do they do?
What do they do?
They turn red.
There's that part where the robot is like, there's an old lady in her house, and she's like, can you make me some toast or something?
And the robot turns around and it's glowing bright red.
And I'm like, what a thoughtful roboticist.
To include a red LED in there, just in case they all turn evil, to indicate to people, oh, your robot has flipped over into evil mode.
You're going to want to plan accordingly.
joe rogan
Dude, robots are scary.
Robots would beat the shit out of you.
Those robots in that movie, if there was a whole bunch of them and they had their own thoughts and ideas, I think that's very possible.
daniel h wilson
No, those robots are bullshit.
joe rogan
The robot scares the shit out of me.
How can you say they're bullshit?
daniel h wilson
Because if you're making a domestic robot that's going to operate in people's homes, right?
Right.
It's going to be in people's homes.
Old people, young people.
It's going to be on the street walking dogs.
I mean, I thought that was awesome, right?
Here's the deal.
You're going to want to make a safe robot.
It's a safe consumer product, okay?
So just think of this even just from the beginning for like one second from the perspective of a person who's actually building a domestic humanoid robot to sell.
Okay, first of all, you know that a human being, anything you put in their environment at home, they are going to put their fingers in it, they're going to try to have sex with it, they're going to get in the bathtub with it, they're going to find a way to like kill themselves using this...
A toaster is really hard to build Think about building this domestic robot.
I think the first thing that you're gonna do is you're gonna make it incapable of hurting people.
You're gonna make it small and light so that it can't walk through a plate glass window.
So that if it loses its batteries and goes all George Bush Segway and just falls over, then it won't crush your baby.
joe rogan
Is that what happened to George Bush?
He was on one of those Segways and the battery died?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, either that or it wasn't even on.
I'm not sure what was going through his head, but he tried to mount up and it wasn't happening.
joe rogan
Oh, no.
daniel h wilson
Well, those things need to be on.
They have a gyro.
But anyway, the point I'm trying to make is if you're going to build a real domestic robot that's in someone's house, it's not going to be capable of crushing your fist with its hand or leaping through a glass window and falling three stories and denting the concrete.
What the fuck?
What a fucking waste of money, right?
First of all.
joe rogan
Well, what if it's like how cars are today?
Like if you buy, say, a brand new Mustang, like a Ford Mustang GT. In the old days, they used to have like 300 horsepower.
They weren't that fast.
The new ones, just the standard Mustang GT, you can get, they're over 400 horsepower.
They're insanely fast.
For this, I think it's like $30,000 or $35,000 or something like that.
That is insane amounts of performance compared to what existed in the 1960s.
If the robots keep getting better and better, people are going to want to have a Ferrari or a Ducati robot.
daniel h wilson
Well, that's true.
So people are willing to lay down a premium.
And in fact, I got to again, Carl Wrench made this short film called The Gift, and these people have this snooty-looking butler robot that is a total badass, like totally physically over-engineered for the job he does, and it's an awesome, awesome little film.
And then they gave him 47 Ronin.
joe rogan
I read this comic book when I was a kid.
When I was a kid, I was super into those black and white, really cool comic books, like the creepy and eerie series.
Have you ever seen the illustrated stuff?
daniel h wilson
Well, The Crow was kind of...
joe rogan
Yeah, sort of.
daniel h wilson
Straight up white and black.
joe rogan
And this, there was like, all these compilation ones, Creepy and Eerie, were all these different stories.
And I remember one of them, from one of those types of comic books, was about a robot that wound up fucking this dude's wife.
And it was really heavy-duty, man, because the guy tried to fight the robot, and the robot snapped his arm and broke it in front of him, and the robot had this giant dick.
daniel h wilson
Just dominated him?
joe rogan
Yeah, it was really creepy, because it was like this guy couldn't do anything about it, and this robot was taking over and fucking his wife.
It was a really fucked up video, or a comic book, rather, because I remember reading it when I was like, God, I couldn't have been more than eight or nine.
You know, that's when I was, like, really into comic books.
That was my comic book era.
And so, this image of this bald, giant robot with this giant cock snapping this guy's arm after he got done fucking his wife was, like, so disturbing.
I was like, could you imagine if that's what you have to deal with?
Does this robot start coming along and fucking people's wives and snapping dudes' arms and shit?
daniel h wilson
I think that's kind of the underlying fear, right?
joe rogan
Of course.
daniel h wilson
There's going to be better at us than everything.
brian redban
And if they're black robots.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, we get some of that mixed in.
Yeah, at least it wasn't fucking him.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, that was probably next.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, that's like episode two.
joe rogan
Fuck him with his own broken arm.
Pull that thing off and stuff it up his ass.
Literally, it could do that.
That's some scary shit, man.
unidentified
Yeah.
daniel h wilson
You know, what's weird for me to think about is that, you know, we know that you can't beat a robot at chess.
I mean, like, we can't.
I mean, maybe you could if you were, like, a master, right?
You can't beat a robot at Jeopardy!
It whooped everybody's ass.
You know that you can't beat them on the battlefield.
Like, robots have dominated in a lot of different areas, like, since we've been kids.
joe rogan
Right.
daniel h wilson
And we at least remember a time when you could beat a robot at chess and just be a normal person who likes to play chess every now and then.
The next generations, they've never lived in a time when a robot didn't dominate them at a lot of intellectual tasks and increasingly physical tasks.
Like, there's gonna be people born that don't remember a time when cars didn't drive themselves better than humans can drive cars.
And it's interesting to think like...
joe rogan
Well, how about the fact that right now we have people that have never known a life without the Internet?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, or being able to look things up on smartphone.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
brian redban
I want to know what I would be like if I was one of these kids.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
I think you got in very early, though.
brian redban
Yeah.
joe rogan
As far as most people, you were tuned into the internet when you were in your 20s, right?
When you were in your 20s?
brian redban
Well, I mean, we had computers growing up.
It was more like the internet was probably 18, but I've had computers my whole life.
joe rogan
What do you think, coming from Ohio, coming from a place like Columbus, what do you think is the biggest impact that the internet has to a place like that?
Because now when you go back there, do you find these kids to be more tuned in than you were when you were their age?
brian redban
It's definitely communication.
Back in the day, the only way I would know anybody from another school or whatever is if I met them at a game or if I went to a roller skating rink and they were in the men's bathroom and they told me to come in a stall.
unidentified
I'm just kidding.
joe rogan
It's got gays.
unidentified
Fuck.
joe rogan
What happened there?
Are you okay?
brian redban
Do you need to call somebody?
No, but now I think it's like, look at Death Squad Ohio when we was in Death Squad.
There was a huge group of people that are all friends now.
Good friends.
They're staying at each other's houses.
They're flying in and getting each other at the airport, and they're a gang now.
joe rogan
Right, and that's all because of the internet.
The internet connecting all these different things in a way that's never happened before allows all these areas that used to have no culture coming into them.
It allows them to experience an incredible variety of different things right out of their fucking computer.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, but on specific details, like really specific things that you're into where you wouldn't be able to get a critical mass of people that are into it if you had to be co-located.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
If you're a Bigfoot hunter and you live in any fucking town, try finding a fellow Bigfoot hunter.
That shit is hard, man.
You can't order a cup of coffee and then, so what do you guys think about Bigfoot?
No one's going to talk to you about Bigfoot.
daniel h wilson
Now you go on the internet for five minutes, you get your own show.
brian redban
A lot of foot fetish guys trying to come to your house.
joe rogan
Yeah, if you go, yeah, right?
I've had guys offer to massage my feet.
brian redban
Are you a Bigfoot lover too?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Wait a minute.
No, no, no.
brian redban
Sasquatch.
joe rogan
Sasquatch.
That's what they call me, honey.
Yeah, it's really tough to be a Bigfoot person out there in the real world.
But on the internet, it's easy as fuck.
You just join a forum.
There's a new Bigfoot video every couple weeks nowadays.
daniel h wilson
On the other end of that spectrum, though...
Don't you think it also sort of cheapens your relationships?
joe rogan
How's that?
daniel h wilson
Well, so you can't have, like...
I don't know about other people.
Maybe I'm just a dweeb, but I can maintain about two good friends.
Like, real buddies.
And then, like...
Anything beyond that is really, there's a very narrow stripe of like acquaintances and then it's all, you know, you have all this time that you spend interacting with people online and it's a thousand people.
joe rogan
Yeah.
daniel h wilson
And so, you know, and not to assign any value judgment to it.
It's a different type of interaction.
one-on-one talking to somebody.
But the advantage is that it's one to a thousand.
You get to interact with like 999 more people.
It's not as intense as just one-to-one, but you have a bigger, it's like more breadth and less depth is what I'm saying.
joe rogan
It's interesting.
I think it's also something that we have to get used to managing.
It's managing the amount of information that comes into your life and managing the amount of people that you're interacting with.
Just any sort of social interaction through a message board or Facebook or Twitter, you could get so absorbed in communicating with all these different people that you will never get anything done.
It will eat up all your time.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, and you'll be the guy looking at his damn vibrating monster cell phone all the time while you're out and your friends are just like, I hate this guy.
joe rogan
This immersion, this human immersion to technology, disturbs me the most when I see people that are really, really addicted to role-playing games.
That's where I see, like, wow, you could really get stuck in a black hole and lose your fucking life.
Have you ever met anybody that's known anybody?
unidentified
Of course.
daniel h wilson
I have friends that are super into role-playing games, but also board games people get into, but then also video games make role-playing games so much easier, especially the massively online multiplayer stuff.
A lot of times that seems to me to be just simple escape.
Your life sucks.
It doesn't suck, but it's just more fun.
joe rogan
It's way cooler.
Magic and shit, going out and getting gold and bitches.
In real life, you're smelling cat piss in your house.
The fuck is that smell?
unidentified
I hope not.
joe rogan
The fuck is that cat piss smell?
daniel h wilson
It's such a deal.
joe rogan
Cat toilets.
Horrible shit online about parents who were neglecting their children because they were just completely absorbed in these online games.
daniel h wilson
It goes the other way.
My wife's a child psychologist.
She had a kid who was addicted to, you know, one of the online games.
And in order to deal with him, she had to find his guild master, who is some...
This is a kid who's like 13 or 14. She found his guild master, who's like a 30-year-old dude, you know, like in Eugene or something.
And he comes up to Portland.
For a meeting and says, hey man, like, you know, you've got a problem and I'm going to have to limit like the amount of raids you can go on.
And she had to, but she had to make that human element real, you know, because this kid had a real relationship with his guild master.
They hung out for hours and hours and hours, you know, they were tight, but they never met.
You know, and so they weren't able to, you know, she had to bring him in to look out for this kid.
joe rogan
Wow.
brian redban
Did you see the lines for the new Call of Duty game last night?
unidentified
No.
daniel h wilson
Oh man.
brian redban
Jesus Christ.
There was people there at one in the afternoon outside of a GameStop just like sitting in these lawn chairs and I'm like, what?
Who are these people?
daniel h wilson
Savages?
brian redban
Yeah.
And then last night I was on Sunset four blocks Of just straight mob people waiting in line for a video game.
I'm like, what the fuck?
I don't get that because I woke up this morning and it was on my front porch.
Thanks, Amazon.
You guys are like, what?
Oh, you got an extra seven hours or something?
joe rogan
Well, yeah.
You're not an addict, though.
unidentified
You understand.
daniel h wilson
Well, and that's also the community, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, that's true.
joe rogan
Yeah, totally.
Look, that's a fucking fun game.
That game scares the shit out of me.
brian redban
Oh, it's great.
joe rogan
I've watched Bruce Buffer plays it.
He plays it at the airport.
And I was like, you better keep that fucking game away from me.
I'll lose my life.
I'll have no life.
daniel h wilson
Forbes article about a guy named Peter Singer who's a...
He's basically a consultant for anybody, the CIA, all the military infrastructure, and they had him design all the robotic weaponry that's in the new Call of Duty.
And the shit is all super legit and really realistic.
joe rogan
Jesus, those games are so immersive.
daniel h wilson
You've got to have 12-year-old reflexes.
It's like I'm not going to go out and try to start a career as a gymnast right now.
I'm too old.
That's the way I feel about Call of Duty.
I can't.
joe rogan
Oh, you would just have to get absorbed.
I was really terrible when I first started out at Quake.
But I got really good after a while.
That was my addictive item.
daniel h wilson
Hey, Castle Wolfenstein, man.
joe rogan
Dude, that was old school.
That was like the first one, right?
Wasn't that the first?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, and you couldn't jump or anything.
It was flat.
Well, there was Duke Nukem.
joe rogan
I think Castle Wolfenstein was the first, and then came Doom.
daniel h wilson
Doom, right, right, right.
joe rogan
And Doom, they named Doom from that line in The Color of Money with Tom Cruise.
I remember Tom Cruise went out to play this guy and Tom Cruise is like the best player in the country.
And he had this crazy pool cue.
And the guy said, what you got in the case, boy?
And he goes in here.
And he opens it up and he goes, doom.
And the idea was that their game was so badass that that's what they were going to do to the whole video game industry.
We were going to drop some doom on them.
daniel h wilson
They did.
joe rogan
And it was, yeah.
daniel h wilson
The 90s, it was all articles about those guys buying Shitloads of Ferraris.
joe rogan
I know Carmack, man.
I've been over his studios a few times.
Those guys are really cool guys.
And Carmack is like a real rocket scientist, like in his spare time.
daniel h wilson
That's what I love is that these guys are all really, really smart.
He's dude.
joe rogan
He's beyond smart.
He's one of those guys where I talk to him.
And I'm like, I'm not convinced we're the same species.
I'm not convinced.
He's so past, just computer-wise, what he's doing all day, the computations that he's making, the way he's redesigning these first-person shooters.
He's like a super, super fucking genius.
Yeah.
daniel h wilson
Having lived in Seattle, you meet these guys, right?
The ones that have started companies and are mad intelligent.
And for me, they're always about five or ten years older than me.
And I'm always pissed.
I'm always like, damn!
If I was 10 years older, I would have been on that scene.
I would have had a chance to go nuts with it.
I have a buddy who works for Bungie.
He makes Halo.
It's a sweet job.
But when he was in college, he wrote a textbook on how to program graphics.
And you know what that got him?
A job at Bungie.
But it didn't get him a Ferrari garage.
It didn't get him...
Every generation has these smart guys and girls.
And when they fall in, it's all about how much the field's been blown open.
There's a lot of stuff, like low-hanging fruit waiting on you.
Of course, he'd probably bust my ass if he heard me say this.
He'd be like, I earned it!
Don't trivialize my accomplishments.
joe rogan
He certainly did innovate in a big way in the first-person shooter world.
It was him, and there was that other guy that was with him with Doom, and then that guy left when he made Quake, who had long hair, had fabulous hair.
He was a very controversial video game designer himself, and those were the original id guys.
But they went on to make Quake, like Quake 2, Quake 3. Each one of them got better and more intense with the graphics, The amount of hours of entertainment they provided with those video games.
It's crazy to think about.
It's staggering!
And this Call of Duty is on...
That's the next level shit.
That's the highest level.
daniel h wilson
What I love is it puts Hollywood to shame.
Movies don't make this much money.
Movies pale in comparison now to video games.
joe rogan
They're way more exciting.
You get so locked in on one of those fucking games, and you're creeping around and shooting at people and shit.
daniel h wilson
I don't understand why movies aren't loss leaders to video games now.
It's always like, yeah, we're making a movie, and we're going to have a video game.
It's like, dude, the money is in video games.
Make a movie just as a PR campaign to get people into your video game, because that's...
Where the cash money is at.
joe rogan
Yeah, not a bad idea.
Especially if you develop one of these Call of Duty type franchises where everyone plays it.
Ice-T is always on TV playing.
Doesn't he play that?
He plays Gears of War too, right?
brian redban
Yeah.
daniel h wilson
You know what I did?
joe rogan
Gears of War is another one.
daniel h wilson
He bought me a Nintendo, dude.
I went to the thrift store and I bought an old TV and an old VCR. And you know what I found?
Watching old school movies on a VCR and on a little bitty 4x3 TV, the graphics weren't as good, right?
They didn't have CGI and all that stuff.
I'm thinking Lost Boys and Terminator 2 and stuff.
Pretty good graphics, but not the...
You watch it on that little screen, it's convincing.
joe rogan
Really?
daniel h wilson
It's low resolution.
There's a lot of stuff that just goes right by.
joe rogan
Well, have you ever seen an old movie that's been brought to Blu-ray?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I think, but I can't.
joe rogan
Aliens, the second Alien movie, was brought to Blu-ray.
And when you watch it on a modern television with a Blu-ray player, it's so hokey-looking.
daniel h wilson
Yeah.
joe rogan
The fucking background.
There's a scene where there's a jet that's parked there, or one of those, you know, whatever.
daniel h wilson
Dropships.
joe rogan
Spaceships.
daniel h wilson
Five bucks.
joe rogan
And then the background is supposed to be like this whole warehouse area.
It's so fucking fake.
I mean, it's so obviously fake.
daniel h wilson
It's like a painted set.
joe rogan
It looks terrible.
I mean, it looks so bad.
It's so hokey.
You're like, oh my god!
You're not supposed to have this at this resolution.
When the director made it, he made it for a certain resolution.
When you deal with special effects, you've got to respect that.
You can't pump it up to Blu-ray, you greedy bitches.
daniel h wilson
You know why I bought the Nintendo?
I have a daughter.
She's two and a half, right?
And she is not allowed in the room when I'm playing video games because it's intense.
I'm playing Skyrim and it's very realistic.
joe rogan
What is Skyrim?
daniel h wilson
What is Skyrim?
joe rogan
I'm sorry.
daniel h wilson
Way of life.
joe rogan
I had to run away from the video games, man.
I'm a fellow junkie.
daniel h wilson
It's in the Oblivion series.
It's one of those role-playing games, but it's single player.
So you can finish it and it can leave your life.
But it's incredibly realistic.
joe rogan
Oh, so you're playing against the computer, you're not playing online.
daniel h wilson
You're playing in a total immersive world.
I mean, I could talk about Skyrim forever.
joe rogan
And you're running it through your PC or your computer.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I actually bought a new gaming PC to run this game.
unidentified
Oh my god.
daniel h wilson
For a while, it was more fun to actually download all the mods to like...
Hype up all the texture mapping, all the water, the fire, the blood, the atmosphere, the weather.
joe rogan
And what are you doing?
Are you fighting people in this game?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's your typical Lord of the Rings rip-off.
Like, you're in a world where...
You know, it's like that medieval stuff.
There's magic and all that.
It's really, really fun, but it's intense.
And if I was playing it, my two-year-old, no way is she allowed in the room, right?
And so one day she says to me something along the lines of, like, you know, video games are scary.
And I'm like, that's bullshit, man.
Video games are...
Super Mario Brothers is not scary, right?
So that's why I bought the Nintendo.
I showed her this.
I was like, this is a video game, honey.
joe rogan
Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop.
daniel h wilson
Just so that she's not terrified by what video games have sort of become.
joe rogan
Especially if you're watching a man's or a young man's, something that's geared towards them.
I mean, obviously, I guess there's a few women that want to go run around playing Call of Duty.
It must be.
I mean, it's so popular.
It must be women playing it as well, right?
brian redban
There's tons of women.
joe rogan
But are there games that are geared specifically towards women?
daniel h wilson
Someone's going to be waiting outside to kick you in the balls if you keep down this room.
Road of questioning whether women are are playing these games because I mean they are they are in a big way, right?
joe rogan
I'm just guessing.
I don't know the community.
I know there was a lot of women quake players though There was like a lot of girls were really good that would play one-on-one duels with dudes and fuck them up and it was embarrassing as shit Because you just get jacked and quake by a chick.
brian redban
Have you seen the zombies in the new Call of Duty?
They have a zombie mode like and it's crazy as fuck.
joe rogan
Can you pull up a video?
Yeah What was that?
brian redban
So here just shows you a little bit of the zombies from Mashimo.
This is like the trailer for it.
joe rogan
We're looking at the trailer right now.
daniel h wilson
I'm getting really scared you guys.
joe rogan
Wow.
Graphics are amazing.
It's just like, what they can do now in a vid- just a- the CGI opening for a video game is incredible.
This is this, like, really dingy, post-apocalyptic bus scenario.
daniel h wilson
It's probably generated by the game engine, you know?
brian redban
Yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, wow.
Oh, this is great.
daniel h wilson
Are those soldiers?
unidentified
Yeah, and here's- Is there anything more fun than shooting zombies?
daniel h wilson
That is a negatory.
Running them over, yeah, right?
joe rogan
I had a zombie dream last night, man.
daniel h wilson
The Walking Dead gets me dreaming about zombies all the damn time now.
brian redban
And they just hoard you.
And you're pretty much just like constantly having to try to get the fuck away from these zombies.
joe rogan
Isn't it funny that one of the most fearsome things that we can conjure up is a human being that's dead and wants to get you?
daniel h wilson
Yeah.
Robots are kind of similar, right?
I mean, we're afraid of the human form, man.
joe rogan
Well, we're afraid of the human form in a diseased manner too, whether it's psychologically diseased or whether it's that 28 Days Later, that epidemic, that rage shit that got out.
That was one of the scariest movies ever.
daniel h wilson
I got a whole horror movie theory about this.
My theory is that the reason that like a werewolf is scarier than like a wolf is because the werewolf, because it has human traits, has the capability of being evil, right?
Because a wolf or like an animal or just nature is not good or evil.
Like you don't blame the wolf for killing somebody.
It's like that's what a wolf does.
But as soon as you inject some human into it, then you have something that's capable of just really being evil and just doing something for evil's sake.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think that's a really accurate representation.
If you stop and think about it, it's very rare that a wolf would...
Actually, I have a friend, now that you think about this, I have a friend who had these wolves.
They were his pets, and they were like seven-eighths timber wolf, and they had like a little bit of husky or something else in them, and they were essentially wolves, man.
And he didn't really have good control over these things.
And they got out and they killed a bunch of the neighbor's farm animals.
And they didn't just kill one and ate it.
They killed them for pleasure.
Most of the time, I think wolves, when they're killing, they're killing out of starvation.
They're killing because they want to eat.
But I think they can kill a lot for pleasure, too.
Wolves actually kill for pleasure.
If they were fattened up, too, they might just fuck with you and jack you.
But the idea of a human...
Humans seem to be a lot more capable of evil than wolves.
Well, again, it's the competition thing, you know?
It's the complexities of the possibilities of emotions that can be conjured up raising a child and doing a shitty job of doing it and putting the kid in horrible situations.
And then all of a sudden, what that person is at the most evil...
Merges with a wolf.
You know the worst characteristics ever of a human being merged with a wolf and that's what a werewolf would be like a just horrible psychotic killer animal.
daniel h wilson
It's about it's like it's about like knowing what you're doing right like Hannibal Lecter freaks me the hell out because he's so aware of exactly what he's inflicting and it's like and that's what Like, amplifies whatever evil act he's doing is the level of, like, satisfaction that he's getting out of it.
And that really, you know, makes it worse.
I don't know.
joe rogan
Yeah, it does.
It was always disturbing how, like, well-read he was and how aware of how fucked up he was, but he didn't care.
unidentified
He's specific about that stuff.
joe rogan
Yeah, he was one of the most terrifying guys ever.
Yeah, and there was two versions of him, too.
Did you ever see that first movie?
God, it was Dragon's Blood or something like that.
There was a prequel to that.
daniel h wilson
Right, it came out later, but it was...
I think I had enough when I saw someone eating their own brain.
I was like, I'm never going to forget this.
It's going to haunt me for the rest of my life.
joe rogan
The Red Dragon, I think that's what it was.
And they made that a movie later.
They eventually...
Yeah, he had that tattoo on his back.
daniel h wilson
Oh, that might have been the one that freaked me out.
That's where he's torturing the old rich guy.
joe rogan
I think so.
God, I can't remember.
daniel h wilson
I think it was Gary Oldman.
joe rogan
I can't remember.
I don't remember who the Hannibal Lecter was either, but he was very subtle.
It was a very different take.
daniel h wilson
Oh, it was a different actor?
joe rogan
Yeah, it wasn't Hopkins, no.
It was some other guy.
But, yeah, that idea of the genius that wants to kill you, that doesn't have any remorse whatsoever and is doing it because it's the only thing that gives them any sort of a feeling.
daniel h wilson
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's a terrifying thought.
That's way scarier than robots, right?
daniel h wilson
I think it's why people are the scariest thing, you know?
joe rogan
So we have to worry about cyborgs, not robots.
Robots maybe will save us from the cyborgs.
daniel h wilson
It's all on the table at the end.
joe rogan
Can you imagine?
What if it becomes the first country that commits their army to becoming robot cyborgs?
daniel h wilson
I mean, this is like a question with whether we should implant ourselves and use neural implants to do things because you think to yourself, well, like, okay, we have all this bioethics and we've decided that it's not ethical for People to do this because everyone would have to get one in order to compete, right?
So we're going to outlaw them.
And then it's like, oh, in China, they're mandated by the state.
And they're getting real productive over there in China.
And it's like, oh, you know, you think about sort of you have a macrocosm view and then you have like a microcosm.
Microcosm is everybody in my kid's classroom went to the doctor and got diagnosed with ADHD. And now all these kids have a neural implant And they're all way smarter than my kid.
And the macrocosm is like that but applied to a whole nation that we're competing with.
joe rogan
Dude, that would freak you out if you were the only kid that had a natural brain in class and all the other kids had chips in their heads and you couldn't fuck with anything they were saying.
daniel h wilson
Dude, there's a super sweet...
joe rogan
You'd be like, what?
daniel h wilson
There's a really sweet outer limit that's all about that where...
There's this one kid whose brain doesn't allow him to get this, so he's basically not on all the internet and social networks.
And then all the other kids get their brains fried by a virus, and he's the only one that's cool.
He reads books and stuff, and he saves everybody.
I like the Outer Limits.
joe rogan
The Outer Limits is an awesome fucking show.
I love the idea of the possibilities that science fiction presents.
I just love that there's so many different...
When you stop and think, especially when we were talking about Lost in Space, when they really had no idea what the future was going to be like.
And you get to see what their vision of it was.
It's so fascinating to me.
Almost more fascinating than when we...
Like Prometheus, to me, what we're going to be capable of.
It's like, I see what you're doing.
A little bit of Microsoft Touch in there.
Yeah.
You know, she created a whole different environment.
Now she thinks she's in the desert.
I haven't seen it, by the way.
daniel h wilson
I know I should see it.
I got a two-year-old.
I can't see anything.
joe rogan
You know what, man?
It's hard to live up to the Alien series.
And it doesn't really.
It stumbles a little bit.
But still, I've seen it more than once.
I've seen it again in a hotel room.
I was bored.
So I watched it again.
It's a badass movie.
I mean, visually, it's stunning.
Visually alone, it's worth watching because there's some incredible scenes in it, just visually.
But the future, like the technology they present, doesn't seem much different than what we're capable of right now.
daniel h wilson
That stuff really does, you know, influence actual science.
Like, you know, people will take clips from these movies and everything and show them during their presentations and say, this is like what we're doing.
Wow.
Specifically, Minority Report, where he's doing that.
That was huge for human-computer interaction and HCI people.
Suddenly, that clip was showing up everywhere at conferences.
People were like, this is what we're doing.
joe rogan
Do you think we're going to get away from the keyboard interface in the near future?
daniel h wilson
There's so much research that's going into natural human interfaces.
We have all this machinery upstairs that's...
Got us geared to interacting with other human beings the way we interact.
Face recognition, speech recognition, gesture recognition, emotion recognition.
joe rogan
You know what I'm really impressed with is the speech recognition.
The iPhone has a native app that comes with it called Notes.
And this Notes, when you go to enter into a new note, it has this little...
This little button that you can press that looks like an old-school microphone, and you can just press it, and you talk into it, and you go, Daniel H. Wilson is a bad motherfucker.
So that's it, and boom, it reads it.
daniel h wilson
Dude, mine doesn't do that.
I have notes.
I gotta figure out where that button's at.
joe rogan
It's right at the bottom of the keyboard to the left of the space bar.
Do you see how awesome that is?
daniel h wilson
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, I just said it for the folks at home who are listening to this.
I just said that into my phone and it's instantly printed up exactly what I said.
Daniel H. Wilson is a bad motherfucker.
It is even spelled bad motherfucker correctly.
brian redban
Have you done this yet?
Text Paris Hilton, I want to eat her asshole.
joe rogan
Hey man, that's just rude.
What if Paris Hilton was listening to this?
unidentified
Here's your message to Paris Hilton.
Ready to send it?
brian redban
And it says, I want to eat your asshole.
And I'll send it.
unidentified
Okay, I'll send it.
joe rogan
Paris Hilton is in your phone?
brian redban
Yeah.
joe rogan
Or does Siri just know?
daniel h wilson
Siri just looked it up.
brian redban
You can't see it.
joe rogan
Well, what you just did was very rude, young man.
If you really did, send her that.
You were abusing technology.
You were part of the problem.
brian redban
Whatever Siri did, I didn't do it.
joe rogan
Even if she wanted her asshole licked, she probably doesn't want you bringing it up like that.
It's like, Jesus, can we talk about it in private after a couple cocktails?
Yeah, I like it, okay?
I like it when I'm clean, but I don't need it to be on a podcast, bitch.
You're rude, dude.
daniel h wilson
Every morning at 7.30 before she leaves the house.
joe rogan
Your book, Robo Apocalypse, is a New York Times bestselling book.
That's a pretty dope thing attached to your name.
New York Times bestselling author.
daniel h wilson
I know, man.
I love it.
I got it on my Twitter handle.
You're legit.
I'm going to eventually get over it, but for now, I'm still really into it.
joe rogan
No, why would you get over that?
You're legit.
That's like what everybody wants.
That makes you like a black belt in writing.
daniel h wilson
I think it really is important because when you're writing for a living, it's really hard to convey to people whether you're doing all right or not.
Because people, you'll be at a party and no one knows who the hell you are.
You're a writer, right?
Why would they?
It doesn't really matter how successful you get.
They're not going to know who you are.
And you're at a party and someone says, what do you do?
And you're like, I write science fiction for a living.
And they're like, well, good luck with that, man.
I hope that works out.
And it's like, well, no, I'm doing okay.
We can talk about it.
It's not embarrassing.
joe rogan
Oh, that's funny.
So they automatically assume that you were failed?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I think so.
joe rogan
Is it because you're not Stephen King?
daniel h wilson
It's because it's really hard to make a living writing science fiction.
I mean, it's actually scary.
I mean, the understanding is if you say, I write science fiction for a living, the understanding is you do not get paid.
You have another job.
joe rogan
That's interesting, because I would think that there would be a big market for that.
daniel h wilson
There is, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, it seems to me there's a lot of people that are science fiction buffs.
daniel h wilson
Science fiction's killing it, but yet it's still sort of got all this bad...
Image problems from like the pulp era, you know?
So like Doubleday, my publisher, They promoted the book as a techno-thriller.
Not science fiction.
It's a techno-thriller because there's like a science fiction ghetto.
There's like a science fiction sub-genre.
joe rogan
Distinction.
daniel h wilson
Yeah.
And if you fall into that, then you go into the science fiction.
You don't go into the mainstream popular.
What?
You don't go on the front table.
You go into the science fiction area.
joe rogan
That's so weird.
daniel h wilson
And you know what pisses me off?
It's like science fiction is a bad word.
The most popular book is Fifty Shades of Grey.
joe rogan
You're going to be embarrassed about science fiction?
What do you think that's about, man, as a writer?
You see this poorly written Bondo, Bondage book, and it's doing really well.
Bondo?
Not Bondo, that's the shit for your cars.
Bondage, sadomasochistic, weird sexual thing.
brian redban
There's a puddle on the floor.
joe rogan
It's about a really handsome guy who likes to hurt girls.
Doesn't he do it on purpose or something like that?
daniel h wilson
I haven't read it.
I heard he's gone.
joe rogan
You read it, dude.
I saw the look in your eyes.
He was trying to lie to me.
daniel h wilson
I've seen a lot of people reading it in public.
That's so strange.
joe rogan
That's like a porno.
Why not just have a penthouse in public?
daniel h wilson
I know, but I kind of like it.
unidentified
You like it?
When you see a cute girl reading it in public, you're sort of like, you dirty, dirty, dirty, dirty bitch.
joe rogan
Yeah, you're right.
I didn't think about it that way.
Yeah, maybe it's girls like putting out a signal like they're down.
I had a friend who dated this girl and they were normal and he said she got this book, read the book, and then the next time they were together she asked him to spit in her mouth.
And he was like, what the fuck?
She goes, do it.
Spit my mouth.
And he was like, what?
What the fuck are you doing?
I've been reading this book, Fifty Shades of Grey.
And I'm just getting really excited about it.
And he was like, what the fuck are you reading?
So he started reading what she was reading and trying to figure out why she wanted him to spit in her mouth.
daniel h wilson
I was at a...
I went to Oricon, the science fiction convention in Portland, right?
So we have a hotel room for the sci-fi convention.
And my friend rents porno, right?
On the TV and at the beginning and I've never seen this before at the beginning before they played the the porn right there's a message that says These are unrealistic scenarios.
Do not try this.
These people are, like, trained.
It was, like, the whole, like, do not try this at home thing.
And then, of course, it's just typical pornography, right?
Very large objects going in very small places.
And it's true, like, I don't know if that's just a hotel thing or if that's just, like, on all porn.
But you can imagine the hotels are, like...
We really need to have a little disclaimer at the beginning because people are hurting each other.
They're getting rowdy.
We're spending a fortune on sheets.
joe rogan
If you talk to anybody that's in the medical profession, that's done any work in the emergency room, they would tell you about all the various things that people stuffed in their body and then got stuck up there.
And it's crazy, man.
I had a friend who had to pull a light bulb out of this dude's ass.
One of those twisty light bulbs.
You know those slightly thicker glass because they're kind of twisty?
brian redban
At least it wasn't a fluorescent.
joe rogan
It had broken in his ass.
They had to pull this out of his ass.
Dude, gingerly had to walk him because he was afraid that if he closed down on his ass, it would shatter inside of his ass and just shards of blood.
And there's a video of a guy doing that very thing.
There's a video of a guy with a cup.
Oh my god, it's horrific.
This time, he doesn't do it with a lipo, but he does it with a cup, which is even scarier because it's a heavy, thick glass jar.
and it breaks off inside of him and he's pulling these chunks of glass with blood and it's all falling out of his ass.
It is one of the most disturbing things you could ever see on the internet.
You're welcome.
daniel h wilson
Keep in mind, if you see it, you can't unsee it.
joe rogan
Yeah, you don't want to see it, but you do want to see it.
daniel h wilson
I can't even watch Tosh anymore.
I don't like it.
Because with Tosh, I just feel like Tosh should just rename it to somebody's about to get a compound fracture.
Right.
brian redban
It's like the new faces of death.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, and you never know, right?
It could just be like some old lady crossing the street or like a guy taking a drink of milk and then compound fracture.
joe rogan
You want to see a broken toe, a horrifically broken toe?
I'm not going to look at it.
You're not going to look at it?
daniel h wilson
Is it yours?
joe rogan
No, Anthony Parash.
He's a fighter that fights in the UFC and he just had to withdraw from a fight because of a broken toe.
It's pretty incredible.
You want to see it?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
No?
Do you want to see it?
daniel h wilson
I like to use the VCR method and lower the resolution by squinting.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Okay, then I'm not going to show it to you.
I'm not going to show it to you, but it's one of the craziest things I've ever seen.
It doesn't look good.
brian redban
Or I do the thing where I'm just looking at the bottom left of the screen, so I could see it like an arm.
joe rogan
Yeah, you remember the first time you saw someone die online?
Like the first video of the Bud Dwyer video or something like that?
You're like, oh wow, that's a guy dying.
That's what it looks like when someone dies.
daniel h wilson
Well, you used to have to go through all the trouble to get Faces of Death, and then it was a huge deal.
joe rogan
Yeah.
daniel h wilson
Now it's like you're waiting for the bus.
It's like, I think I'm going to watch 15 people die.
joe rogan
Yeah, Faces of Death was the same era for me as a friend who had one of those barnyard porns.
There was a few of those porns that were going around that were like so grainy.
daniel h wilson
And seedy.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Oh, just horrendous.
You just got to think about what it was like to be this poor girl that was just blowing this donkey.
daniel h wilson
And the actual VHS tapes are always sticky and the stickers ripped off.
joe rogan
Sometimes the tape would get fucking broken and spool up.
There were horrible, horrible videos.
The resolution was terrible.
daniel h wilson
But at least there was a little bit of pageantry.
Maybe that's the wrong word.
But gravity associated with the whole act of witnessing this terrible thing.
It wasn't so easy.
joe rogan
Yeah, you're right.
It was a big deal.
Like, we planned it out.
Like, one guy even had to watch the door.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Like, one guy watched the door and we watched it downstairs on this, like, it was at the bottom.
Like, he was, like, he stood, like, halfway up the stairs so he could, like, still lean down and look over at this.
It was a little shitty-ass fucking television we were watching this on.
And when we were watching that girl blow the horse, we were like, what the We thought we could go to jail at any moment.
Someone could kick the door in.
I don't remember how old we were, but it wasn't more than high school age.
It was somewhere around high school age.
It was just the craziest thing to see ever, to watch this chick have sex with animals.
There was a dog.
She blew a dog.
She blew a donkey.
There was a couple different animals that she had to have sex with.
It's so weird.
That was so hard to do.
And we felt bizarre for days afterwards.
Kids today just laugh about that shit.
They think it's hilarious.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, it rolls off of them.
They witness so much faster than we ever did.
I don't know.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's a weirdness to this life for them that just never existed, as far as we know, for any human ever.
This weird connection to almost anything.
If you leave your kid out in the world with an iPhone, you send him out in the world, you're giving them access to fucking everything.
That's the whole world.
They're not going to probably get taken by internet scammers from their iPhone, but almost everything else.
daniel h wilson
There's a Times article right now where they're interviewing people, like a bunch of different people, about Porn, you know, and the impact on society.
And there's somebody that says exactly that.
They're like, look, you know, kids have access to everything.
It's really impossible to limit that access.
And they're talking about how all this easy access to porn has affected people's sex lives.
And apparently, you know, certain...
They go through and they catalog which sex acts occur in the majority of videos.
So they can say, like, 88% of videos have a facial, you know?
And then they look and there's a direct correlation.
What happens in those videos is what people want to do at home.
joe rogan
That's funny.
So like butt sex goes way up.
It must be.
daniel h wilson
They said like 80% had butt sex and then 4% of people actually had butt sex.
joe rogan
What do you mean?
80%?
daniel h wilson
In the video...
joe rogan
In the video, 80% of the people did it, but in real life 4% of the people did it?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, because there's a correlation between demands and what's in the videos.
Not so much a correlation between what actually happens.
Because of the gatekeepers in this whole process.
joe rogan
Are the females.
unidentified
Yeah.
daniel h wilson
Who are actually like, go fuck yourself.
joe rogan
Yeah.
We talked about it must be so crazy in the gay community because there's not that female influence.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I said the same thing to my wife.
I said the same thing to her.
I said, thank God that you guys are slowing us down.
And God knows what's happening in that community because there's no break.
joe rogan
Yeah, believe me.
There's no way it would be the same.
If men and women were the same, as far as our veracity, it would be just like gay people.
And it's not.
The men have to tone down for the women.
It doesn't exist in the gay community.
They have a totally different, bizarre operating dynamic.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I'm sure that everybody acclimates to it.
joe rogan
I guess they have less suppression, though, that way.
Certainly, they know each other.
They understand each other better.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, and I think that also that relationship, whenever you have gay friends and you see how their relationships are, you know, to the extent that you see that if you're a heterosexual, I mean, obviously you're not seeing the whole story.
They're not seeing your whole story in your bedroom either.
But I think that those types of relationships, each person has their own specific one and it affects each other.
You see that, like, you know, my friends that are gay tend to have, like, Relationships where they trust each other a lot and they're a little looser.
It's not a lot of jealousy and stuff.
Maybe I just have weird friends.
I don't know.
But it's interesting.
You rub off on each other.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's interesting that they...
It's just a different dynamic.
And for whatever reason, the real issue lies in the fact that it's not legal everywhere, that they don't share the same rights as people everywhere.
That, to me, is really bizarre.
Because if two people want to pretend to be the husband, what do you give a fuck, as long as they're together?
If one guy wants to pretend he's a woman, what do you care?
Why do you care?
They're just two people that want to get married.
The idea that you would have to have a certain sexual proclivity in order to engage in this It's just so bizarre.
And if you allow any sort of bizarre, any sort of discrimination that doesn't make any sense objectively, if you allow any of that in our world, then it's going to come at you too, man.
And if you don't take a stand for gay people that want to get married and for whatever reason they're being persecuted by numbskulls and overly religious crazy people, if you don't take a stand for them, then who's going to take a stand for you when it comes in your direction?
Who's going to take a stand for humanity?
Because it's just a person who happens to like men.
Why do you let them marry each other, you fuck?
What do you care?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I agree.
joe rogan
It doesn't make any sense.
daniel h wilson
I think, you know, there are a lot of like cultural mores or whatever, right?
However you pronounce that word.
Like sort of stuff that people just think is obvious, you know?
And it's just accepted.
But times change, you know?
People, our relationships, how human beings interact with each other.
You know, even just like you think about people interacting over the computer, stuff like that.
All that stuff changes, and so all of the cultural stuff has to change too.
And sometimes I'm glad that we do have a full spectrum of some people are just willing to embrace anything new, right?
Especially with technology, you have all kinds of new shit getting thrown at us all the time.
Other people dig in their heels and they say, let's take it slow.
Let's not go nuts here.
And I think that's a good thing because we have so much change coming at us so fast that we need...
Some people that are willing to embrace it and experiment with it.
Other people that are...
And I'm off of the gay thing now, by the way.
I'm on to technology.
joe rogan
Thank God, dude.
I was going to talk to you about this.
daniel h wilson
I'm on to people who are saying that...
That we shouldn't experiment with stem cells.
All of this scientific discovery that's out there and people are saying, no, no, no, we shouldn't study it.
We should slow down.
It is nice to have some people that want to slow things down.
joe rogan
Well, it's bizarre when religion actually tries to interfere with science in ways that don't make any sense.
One of my favorite ones was the Pope talking to Stephen Hawking, and he told him that it was okay to explore the nature of the universe, but it wasn't okay to explore the origins of the Big Bang, because that would be like questioning God himself.
Isn't that hilarious?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, you know...
Religions, to me...
joe rogan
Like, he was, like, telling them what...
I mean, this was, like, our lifetime.
I mean, Hawking's still alive, so this was in our lifetime.
The Pope was telling this guy...
daniel h wilson
He's still studying the Big Bang.
joe rogan
It's so silly that that could ever get to a point where it could happen, where this nutty cult member actually could get into a position.
And in this day and age, that could...
I mean, it didn't have an influence, other than to make a humorous anecdote.
But still, what if he listened?
daniel h wilson
Well, it's to reinforce his notions, really.
joe rogan
And who knows what his own psychological proclivity might be?
There are some people that are subject to the influence of people that you wouldn't be or I wouldn't be.
And, you know, in certain cases, like someone who's in a big position of power, like a pope.
daniel h wilson
Well, you know, for thousands and thousands of years, religion is the bedrock.
It's what keeps people united.
It's what keeps them alive.
I mean, to have a shared culture...
I have Native American in my background, right?
Growing up, I was always interested in reading the history and thinking about why did Native Americans get basically wiped out, and also Aborigines and things.
And you think about the fact that in Australia, All the different tribes in Australia, they all spoke different languages, and they all had a certain amount of land, and they were kind of in stasis.
I mean, they fought with each other, but everything always kind of ended up the same.
There was no one group that conquered all of Australia.
And then you think about Europe and other more bellicose places.
Here you've got places where They enforce one culture on massive groups of people, right?
Through religion.
And they're incredibly effective.
They travel all over the world and white people out.
They work together.
They build cities.
There's great utility in having people think alike like this.
But then, you know, there's also a drawback.
And the drawback can be that it's resistant to change and it doesn't...
You know, adapt for new circumstances.
joe rogan
So it's almost like you could look at religion as an operating system on a cell phone.
It allows you to get things done, but if you don't update it, and continually update it with the latest versions...
daniel h wilson
Well, science naturally updates itself.
You can always go back and prove something wrong, prove it for yourself, and Fix it, update it with new information.
I mean, that's the strength of science, but that's scary because there is no bedrock.
You know how much you don't know.
And you really have to trust yourself a lot, I think, to really trust science because you are acknowledging that you don't know everything.
joe rogan
You're allowing a thought into your mind that a lot of people do not find comforting.
daniel h wilson
It's really scary.
joe rogan
And that is that no one is watching this thing.
No one's paying attention to this.
We essentially live in a soup of madness.
And that is the world that we actually exist in.
And we want to pretend that we're in this strange Sandra Bullock movie where everything's going to be okay and everything's going to be normal.
And one of the best ways to do that is to think that there's a guy that lived a long time ago that came back from the dead and he absolved you of all your bullshit.
You just got to take him into your heart and you're good, no matter how bad you've been in the past.
And they go with that.
daniel h wilson
It's not about you believing it.
It's about...
Lots of people believing it, so you draw strength on other people.
joe rogan
Yes, good point.
daniel h wilson
I think it's a natural human thing to do.
joe rogan
I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
I think it's an operating system.
I think it's like a scaffolding for morals.
daniel h wilson
I think of it as a policy.
Like, it's a set of behaviors, you know, for certain situations we'll behave this way.
And yeah, it glues people together.
joe rogan
Sort of like when a guy wears a suit and a tie, he's going to be a gentleman.
Would the gentleman care for a drink?
I mean, God doesn't say that if you're wearing Muay Thai shorts and flip-flops and you're sweating.
They don't want to have anything to do with you.
They wouldn't say, would the gentleman like a cocktail?
They'd be like, sir, you can't come in here naked with flip-flops on.
We want you to look in a very specific, uniform way.
And that's how I know I can predict your behavior.
You're going to behave like a gentleman.
daniel h wilson
Well, that...
Believe it or not, I can make anything tie back to robotics.
I believe you could.
That actually ties back in.
When you build a robot, right, what you choose to make it look like is a promise.
It's a guarantee to the person that's going to interact with it.
So if you build a robot that looks just exactly like a human being, then anybody that walks up to that robot is going to damn well expect that that robot is going to be as smart as a human being.
If you say, what's up, buddy, it's going to say, hey there, pal.
And if it doesn't, people get mad, you know?
Which is why I don't think we're gonna see super realistic, like, you know, androids anytime soon, because we don't have the full package, you know?
We may be able to make it look really realistic, but we can't make it behave in a really realistic way.
joe rogan
Why is that?
daniel h wilson
I mean, just because that's the hard part.
joe rogan
But is that, I mean, it's a temporary hurdle, isn't it?
I mean, with the way science continually grows in this exponential manner, it seems that if they could figure out, they could sort of figure out how to mimic various aspects of the actual human.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I mean, we're making progress.
joe rogan
Do you think they'll actually engineer in egos and things like that?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Self-respect?
daniel h wilson
Or they'll copy it, you know, they'll mimic it to the extent that you can't tell the difference.
joe rogan
What if robots start revenge beatings, waiting for people behind cars, and people talk shit at them in a meeting?
daniel h wilson
Socks full of doorknobs.
joe rogan
Yeah, beat the fuck out of them.
daniel h wilson
I think that would be a malfunction.
joe rogan
Yeah, it would be.
Is there a way you could ever, in the Alien series, like, we've been engineered to never harm a human being.
daniel h wilson
I love those aliens, bro.
I love Bishop.
He gets ripped in half.
joe rogan
The first guy was good, too, man.
The first guy was good, too.
Spoiler alert.
Spoiler alert.
In Prometheus, there's another one.
daniel h wilson
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
What's his name?
The most substantial.
daniel h wilson
That awesome actor.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That dude.
I don't remember his name.
daniel h wilson
David is what they named him, too, which is weird.
joe rogan
All right, I'll tell you who he is.
We'll give the guy his props.
daniel h wilson
Some credit, yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, but he's amazing in it.
What the fuck's the dude's name?
IMDB, son.
Where did IMDB? He got a 7.3 rating.
That's pretty fucking good.
daniel h wilson
That is.
joe rogan
Alright, homeboy, what's his name?
daniel h wilson
So they announced we got Anne Hathaway is going to be in Robo-Pocalypse.
joe rogan
Anne Hathaway.
daniel h wilson
That became official yesterday.
joe rogan
Wow.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I don't even know what part she's going to play, but I'm kind of excited.
She's sort of a badass.
joe rogan
Is she really?
daniel h wilson
Well, I mean, as Catwoman and stuff, she pulled it off.
Any of that superhero stuff, if you can dress up in a gimmicky costume and pull it off and make it seem real, then you've got my respect.
joe rogan
Right.
I can't find this dude.
daniel h wilson
I should know his name.
joe rogan
Goddammit.
Is it Rafe Spall?
daniel h wilson
No.
joe rogan
No, that's not it.
Motherfucker.
Alright.
I give up.
unidentified
I give up.
daniel h wilson
Props to him, whoever he is.
joe rogan
Yeah, whoever he is.
He's a bad motherfucker.
They don't seem to have his photo here in the cast.
He was the robot guy.
It's not Guy Pearce.
unidentified
Mm-mm.
joe rogan
I don't think so.
I give up.
Sorry.
daniel h wilson
Lots of people are screaming his name, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm sure someone on Twitter will tell me who the guy's name is, but yeah, he played an amazing robot.
He did the best job, in my opinion, in any robot movie, of walking that creepy line where you think he almost feels slighted, but doesn't because he really doesn't have any programmed emotions, but he's recognizing that you're trying to slight him.
It's very fascinating.
It's worth seeing, really, for some of his scenes alone.
Especially, I can't tell you.
It's too much of a spoiler.
daniel h wilson
For a really realistic humanoid, or android, I mean, there's a momentum behind the emotions, right?
So even if it doesn't feel pissed off, if it looks and in all other ways behaves completely consistently with how a human would behave, then you're going to be sitting there waiting on him to be pissed off.
And even if his face is totally blank, you're probably going to project on it and be like – Is he a little pissed off?
Yeah.
Because everything else is consistent.
Like, but okay, so he's designed not to be pissed off.
That's somehow it's hard to believe whenever you have a full working model of how people behave and it's been trained on people.
joe rogan
Well, also, the guy's name is Michael Fassbender.
daniel h wilson
Michael Fassbender, yeah.
joe rogan
Spoiler alert.
Also, he actually acts in almost a vindictive manner to one of the guys who had been fucking with him in this movie.
It was kind of interesting.
daniel h wilson
I gotta see this.
joe rogan
How they had had it set up.
You know, like I said, it wasn't a terrible movie.
It just wasn't what I was hoping.
Michael Fassbender, that's what it is.
He played David.
He was the second one.
There it is.
His hair is a different color in this photo.
I got confused.
But yeah, he's an amazing actor, man.
That's a skill that's going to be difficult when they start doing CGI movies, like completely CGI, like really replicating an actual human's emotions and the way a human like that guy can act.
That's going to be really difficult to do.
daniel h wilson
It's all the little things that the actors learn.
I've been watching all the Chris Hemsworth movies because he's also supposed to be in Robo-Apocalypse.
joe rogan
Who's Chris Hemsworth?
daniel h wilson
He's Thor, Mighty Mighty Thor.
joe rogan
Oh, cool.
daniel h wilson
And he's in Red Dawn, the remake, and he's in Snow White and the Huntsman.
So I was watching that, and I can't remember the name of the actress.
She's the one from Twilight.
joe rogan
Kristen Stewart?
daniel h wilson
Yeah.
And she's really pretty, and she does this thing where...
You start to notice that it's almost her trademark.
She breathes really hard and her collarbones sort of stick out.
That's like an acting thing.
Or when you notice their little nostrils are flipping around and you're like, that's why they get paid the big bucks.
joe rogan
That's hilarious.
daniel h wilson
Their nostrils are doing SeaWorld shit and flipping out of the water.
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's funny.
Some people, they have the same guy.
Like Christopher Walken, he's the same guy in almost every movie ever.
daniel h wilson
I read an interview with him.
He said that they started like...
Now he has a clause in his contract that says they can't rewrite it to make it weirder when they hire him because he's tired of all the roles shaping to fit him instead of him having to act.
joe rogan
Oh, that's funny.
Like, so as he gets it, they go, look, we're going to have Christopher Walken and he's going to be on acid 24-7.
And he only wears, like, flippers and golf shoes and shit like that around the house.
daniel h wilson
And he was just supposed to be someone's, like, dad or something.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, I wonder if, yeah, like the variety of roles that he gets offered.
Everyone's crazy.
Every role that he does has got to be a crazy guy.
daniel h wilson
And once you get typecast, I guess.
joe rogan
Al Pacino, like he's got to scream.
There's got to be at least one ranting, screaming scene in every movie.
I think after a while, these dudes probably like, Especially after they get paid a few times, they really sell out hard and make some fat cash on a terrible movie.
And they're like, wow, that was pretty easy.
daniel h wilson
It's one of those good problems, you know?
I keep getting hired and getting paid a lot of money to be myself.
joe rogan
But Robert De Niro did a bunch of stinky-ass movies, man.
He did that one movie where he was a gremlin or a warlock or something like that.
Wasn't there a movie where it was like one of those Hobbit-type rip-offs?
daniel h wilson
Oh.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I feel like...
Oh, God, I can't remember the movie.
daniel h wilson
Well, you know, I saw...
joe rogan
But nobody saw it.
daniel h wilson
In Snow White, there were all these dwarves, right?
And I thought that they were little people.
I shouldn't say nobody.
And instead, they were real actors.
I couldn't figure out how it was happening.
joe rogan
Yeah, because they were famous actors.
That was a big point of contention with the little people community.
Because they were like, what the fuck, man?
These are the only gigs that we could take.
And instead, you think it's cute to show off with...
There's plenty of little people actors that would have loved those roles.
So it's kind of a...
That was a little touch-and-go situation.
Like, what is it?
Bud Hot...
What's his name?
Hotskins?
What is the guy's name?
daniel h wilson
What roles does he play?
joe rogan
He was one of the little people.
Very famous.
Fuck.
God damn it.
Now I'm going to make me IMDB this motherfucker, too.
I might be MD more today than I ever have in my life.
But then there was the other movie...
daniel h wilson
You can tell IMDB was one of the first websites because it's got...
Because they would never name it that, right?
It would be like...
They would give it a...
Movie poo or something.
Movie time!
Something like that.
joe rogan
Yeah.
YMIMDB. Internet Movie Database.
I guess it's easy to remember.
daniel h wilson
Plus it's four characters, man.
You can't get a website that's four characters.
joe rogan
Boz Hoskins.
That's homeboy's name.
He's been in a gang of movies.
daniel h wilson
Well, is he Willow?
joe rogan
Bob Hoskins.
Bob Hoskins was in...
Wasn't he in Roger Rabbit?
Wasn't he in that, too?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, he was.
There's a guy who was in Willow and Star Wars and, like, everything.
joe rogan
Dude, this guy's been in fucking everything.
This guy's been in a lot of shit.
He's been in a lot of shit.
But he's in that movie, too.
daniel h wilson
See, I feel the same way about...
In Robo-Pocalypse, it's all Native Americans.
Like, so I have this feeling that if the federal government were to fall apart...
There are all these sovereign tribal governments that are around that have jails and cops and hospitals and everything that you need, right?
Only it's smaller.
And in the book, everybody ends up there.
And so in the movie, I don't know.
I haven't read the script.
I don't know anything about it.
I'm wondering, are they going to hire Native actors?
joe rogan
You would hope so, right?
daniel h wilson
Because it's an Osage army, basically.
joe rogan
They would just have to maybe look a little bit more carefully, but I'm sure there's plenty of qualified people.
Acting is one of those things, too, man.
There's a lot of people that you don't know that can do it.
It's one of those things where there's so many people that have done theater, and they can fucking act.
They know how to act.
unidentified
It's beautiful.
daniel h wilson
Spielberg's good at getting people that aren't big names and scouting and making them big names, but at least while they're with him.
joe rogan
Well, you know, I think when you've been in the movie business that long, you trust casting agents, too.
And a casting agent can tell you, hey, there's this kid.
He's amazing.
You've got to check him out.
Nobody knows who he is because he's really got something special.
He's perfect for this one particular role that he might have.
But he's good at it.
But some people just...
It's kind of funny that we have this thing with movies where we accept that we're seeing the same guy over and over and over again in a bunch of different lives.
I mean, in one movie, he's the last American samurai, whatever the fuck he is.
In another movie, he's a vampire.
daniel h wilson
Now he's going to be Jack, the guy from the, who is it, Clive Cussler or something?
Oh, man.
joe rogan
From what movie?
daniel h wilson
We're terrible, dude.
joe rogan
Yeah, we're fucking up today.
daniel h wilson
Anyway, yeah, he's...
joe rogan
I need some bulletproof coffee.
daniel h wilson
He's playing a guy who is actually, like, 6'4", linebacker.
joe rogan
Oh, he's playing...
No, I was just thinking of Matthew...
No, Matt Damon.
Didn't Matt Damon play a rugby player, a famous rugby player?
Didn't he?
brian redban
No?
joe rogan
I think he did.
daniel h wilson
It seems like he could pull that off.
joe rogan
Yeah.
No, I mean, he played the Bourne Identity movies.
He's great.
Yeah, I bought that.
Although I bought the new guy more.
I bought the new guy...
I believe the new guy was more, like, natural as a killer.
Who's the name?
Jeremy Renner?
Is that his name?
daniel h wilson
Renner.
joe rogan
Yeah.
We knew somebody's name today.
Yay!
That guy's a badass.
What I found was amazing about that movie, though, was that one of the things about that movie is that this guy can endure incredible cold and pain.
He can do all these amazing things physically, and yet he also had incredible discipline and he never chased pussy.
It's like they made him the most unrealistic superhero ever.
Because like I was thinking about they were going over James Bond today and they were talking about on the Ron and Fez show, they were talking about all the different names for the James Bond women and which one was the hottest and which girl, which James Bond girl.
daniel h wilson
Is that a weakness?
Because they portray that as his great strength.
joe rogan
Yes, it is his great strength.
daniel h wilson
He's seducing women.
He's doing this to them.
Oh, yeah.
They're powerless.
Instead of, he's getting portrayist.
joe rogan
Well, he's just not real.
He's not even trying to get laid.
He has no needs whatsoever sexually, but yet he flips through the air and lands on top of the roofs and beats the shit everybody and carries this woman the whole way.
But she just wants, like, that is like the ideal man.
Women want a vampire that won't suck your blood and can go out in the daytime.
He just sparkles.
They want, I mean, they want this super badass who doesn't want any pussy at all.
He's just your guard dog that he takes care of you everywhere.
He doesn't even try to fuck you.
Like, this woman is unbelievably beautiful, and he's saving her through the entire movie, and they never even so much as make out.
unidentified
This is Bond?
joe rogan
No, no, it's not Bond.
daniel h wilson
Oh, okay.
joe rogan
It's Jeremy Renner, one of the new Bourne Identities.
daniel h wilson
Right, because I was, okay.
joe rogan
But I'm saying, at the same time, if you go back and look, they had a Bond movie called Octopussy.
I mean, that is the most unsubtle play on words ever.
daniel h wilson
I remember my grandfather had that VHS tape and I was like, oh yeah!
unidentified
I grabbed that one and popped it in as soon as he was out the door.
joe rogan
Bond is always getting hot freaks.
That was part of being Bond.
He got laid like crazy.
And it was a good thing back then.
But not anymore.
A superhero can't do that anymore.
daniel h wilson
Is the new Bond a philanderer?
joe rogan
I don't know.
Does he go and get some mass in this new movie?
daniel h wilson
He must.
I mean, it's his trademark.
He's going to have a martini.
He's going to fire a neat gun.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's going to win, always.
In the end, he'll be fine.
He might have a little cast on his hand or some shit like that, but in the end, he'll meet the queen or something.
daniel h wilson
So I heard Heineken paid a bunch of money so that he only drinks Heineken beers during the...
During the movie.
It's unsubstantiated, but...
joe rogan
Well, have you seen the video?
The commercial, rather?
That's a pretty well-done commercial for a beer commercial.
daniel h wilson
And Heineken was going that way already, because they had all those commercials where the dudes flipping through the air, and he's just kind of a Bond-esque kind of badass.
joe rogan
Yeah, so I guess that's okay.
It's not like Heineken sucks.
If they could pay him to only drink Heineken.
What's wrong with that?
I like Heineken.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, it's the principle of it.
joe rogan
What is the principle?
The principle is that it's product placement in a Bond movie which is semi-sacrilegious.
Is that it?
daniel h wilson
Is it?
I mean, I don't know.
joe rogan
Kind of.
daniel h wilson
Does it matter what movie it is?
joe rogan
Yeah, it kind of does.
There's certain things like Bond that are, like, sacred.
You know, I mean, Bonds, you gotta go Sean Connery, Roger Moore.
daniel h wilson
If you wanna do that shit, go Mission Impossible if you wanna only drink, like, if you wanna whore out your main character.
joe rogan
But they already whored out Bond during the Pierce Brosnan era.
daniel h wilson
With cars, right?
joe rogan
That was like, wait a minute, but he wasn't Bond.
Daniel Craig is Bond, okay?
Daniel Craig looks like a real English bad motherfucker that could snap your neck.
Pierce Morgan was like, or what's his name?
Not Pierce Morgan.
Pierce Brosnan.
He seemed like a very nice guy, and I bet he's a hell of a good actor.
daniel h wilson
He seemed like an English gentleman.
joe rogan
Yeah, he did.
I did not buy him kicking people's asses.
I buy this Daniel Craig guy fucking people up and killing people.
I totally buy it.
daniel h wilson
He's more compact and like, Daniel Craig?
Yeah, Craig.
joe rogan
He's built like a pit bull.
Yeah, he's thick.
That guy looks like an athlete.
When you see him with his shirt off and he's got a gun in his hand, you believe that's a guy who kills people for a living.
That's a real special agent.
Whereas with Pierce Brosnan, I'm like, bitch, I'm going to take your gun.
You can't hold on to that gun.
Give me that thing.
daniel h wilson
I'm going to kill your hair.
joe rogan
Yeah, someone's going to hold you down and pee on you.
I just don't buy it.
Roger Moore, at least we got the tongue-in-cheek and it was a different era.
Pierce Brosnan was in this weird sort of like 90s drama era.
daniel h wilson
Transitioning into an action movie.
I got a theory about this too.
I got a lot of theories, by the way.
My theory on this, there's 80s and 90s.
Late 80s, early 90s, there's all these movies where the action scenes consist of people holding submachine guns and going, like spraying bullets at each other, right?
Or they'll be like way up on the catwalk and they'll have a shotgun and they're like, boom, boom, shooting somebody like way the fuck across the warehouse.
And my theory is that you can't get away with that shit anymore because every kid plays Call of Duty.
They know that a shotgun is ineffective at long range.
This is like in the DNA of every 14-year-old boy.
You just know that you can't shoot somebody with a shotgun from across a football field.
You may have never touched a shotgun.
And so the whole spraying, the submachine gun thing, that stuff is just gone now.
You've got to be way more brutal And like accurate and realistic about it.
joe rogan
Well, that's why martial arts movies don't look like those early, you know, Jean-Claude Van Damme and those early, like martial arts movies.
It's harder to buy this guy, you know, flipping you over his head and grabbing you by the wrist when you see like an MMA fight.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, so when you realize what really happened.
Yeah, I was watching Demolition Man and like Wesley Snipes is, like, fucking doing, like, roundhouse kicks, like, four, five, six times.
unidentified
The guy's still standing there, like, really connecting with a real roundhouse kick.
daniel h wilson
Like, when does that even ever happen, right?
But, you know, it's just like...
It's like watching Home Alone or something.
joe rogan
Yeah.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, that brick would have caved in his skull and you would have immediately thrown up all over the floor.
The police would have come.
joe rogan
There was a bunch of movies, those martial arts movies that were completely ridiculous.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Where dudes would just get, stand in a circle, and guys would just charge at him to the left, and he would kick him, and then the guy would charge from the right, he would kick him, and nobody ever rushed him all at one time.
daniel h wilson
Norris, man, Norris.
This is his bread and butter right here.
joe rogan
Chuck Norris in some of the greatest movies ever.
daniel h wilson
Walker, Texas Ranger.
joe rogan
Oh, it's a beautiful show.
unidentified
The whole episode is just, they're like, keep going!
daniel h wilson
Kick him a couple more times in the stomach.
joe rogan
Dude, there was an episode where a bomb went off and he lost his sight and he went and he meditated and he got his sight back at the end and saved somebody.
He had to get his sight back to save somebody.
I was like, oh my god.
daniel h wilson
He gets a little spiritual about it.
joe rogan
Fuck yeah, he does.
Chuck Norris is very high on Jesus.
I met Chuck Norris.
It was one of the proudest moments of my life that Chuck Norris knew who I was and gave me a hug.
I was like, holy shit, because Chuck Norris watches the UFC. I was like, goddammit, why don't I have a camera?
The photo with Chuck Norris in the martial arts community, that's akin to a photo with Elvis if you're a singer.
daniel h wilson
Blow it up.
joe rogan
Yeah, have you got a photo with Chuck Norris?
daniel h wilson
You know you want to just hit those kettlebells and just stare at the photo.
joe rogan
Chuck Norris and me together, yeah.
Just motivate me to train hard.
unidentified
Kiss me.
joe rogan
Chuck Norris had a bunch of unbelievably preposterous movies.
I mean, Chuck Norris was a bad motherfucker, but some of those movies were hilarious.
daniel h wilson
You know, Roadhouse, right, is one of the great movies.
joe rogan
The classic.
That is the classic.
daniel h wilson
I had some friends in Portland who created a Roadhouse musical, and this is one of the best things I've ever seen.
joe rogan
A Roadhouse musical?
daniel h wilson
It's people acting out Roadhouse, then occasionally there's songs, and there's a narrator that's like...
joe rogan
Oh my god.
daniel h wilson
And I was like, did you guys get permission?
And they're like, ah, you know.
joe rogan
They just did it?
daniel h wilson
They just did it, you know?
joe rogan
Are they doing it for profit or is it just for fun?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, well, you know, it was for profit, but they sold out.
I mean, these are real actors.
joe rogan
I don't think anybody would find it as anything other than...
Ideally, people would look at it and say, that's a tribute.
And it's what keeps people buying the DVDs and keeps investing in the movie.
That was a great, bad movie.
It's a great, bad movie.
daniel h wilson
Dude, it's got everything.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's an amazing movie.
daniel h wilson
It's like a perfect storm.
Every sort of genre, you have...
Movies that perfect different elements of the genre and then you and then you'll have one perfect one or two perfect storm movies that get everything and then you know and then it dissipates the times change Code of Silence was one super legit movie that Chuck Norris did.
joe rogan
I was trying to remember it.
It was a movie, almost like a Charles Bronson type movie where he played a cop.
daniel h wilson
It's just two hours of him meditating?
joe rogan
These motherfuckers only gave it a 5.6 in the ratings.
How dare you IMDB? I disagree.
I think you gotta look at it in the time that it was made.
But in the time that it was made, it was like Chuck Norris had very little martial arts in it for a Chuck Norris movie.
It was more of, you know, just a good action drama movie.
I mean, I think he threw like one sidekick in the whole movie.
Yeah, it was more like...
daniel h wilson
Contractually obligated to...
joe rogan
Yeah, probably.
Probably, yeah.
You can't have a Chuck Norris movie if it doesn't kick at least one dude.
daniel h wilson
How does Chuck Norris look now?
joe rogan
Looks great.
He's healthy.
He's a martial artist.
Have you ever seen him in those commercials where he does those...
What is that thing?
It's a pulley system?
They do those exercises?
daniel h wilson
So he's legit then.
He's legitimately...
Because, you know, a lot of the action heroes from that era that are also movie stars, you know, there's a lot of sort of surgical stuff that starts creeping in and they start looking a little funny.
joe rogan
Well, Chuck Norris is...
I think he's in his 60s.
Let's look here.
But I know he definitely still trains.
He's...
unidentified
He was born in 1940. Whoa.
Yeah.
joe rogan
So, that means he's 72?
daniel h wilson
Stang!
unidentified
Wow.
daniel h wilson
God dang.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
daniel h wilson
Well, he's doing alright.
Healthy living.
joe rogan
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
Well, he looks incredible for 72. That's incredible.
Am I retarded?
No, I'm not.
That's exactly what he is.
Wow.
He's still very fit, though.
If you see him in these...
Whatever these things are, it's him and Christy Brinkley.
I don't remember what they're called.
These cable...
It's essentially a low-impact cable pulley system workout, and he promotes those things.
And he's a black belt in jiu-jitsu, and I'm sure he still probably does some form of martial arts still, too.
But he looks great.
For 72, he's incredible.
Yeah, yeah.
But, yeah, a lot of those dudes, they, you know, fucking your body doesn't last, son.
Shit's gonna go.
And that's where robotics comes in.
daniel h wilson
Hey, that's why I'm saving mine.
I'm not working out because you only get so many movements, you know, so I'm saving them all up.
joe rogan
Imagine if it worked that way, if you were born a fucking superhero, and every day of your life, you used your physical points, and the more physical activity you did, the lower your life got.
daniel h wilson
The brighter the candle burns, the faster.
joe rogan
Yeah, so your life would be almost like a video game.
Everybody would have the equal number to start with.
daniel h wilson
Well, they made that movie where you have a certain amount of time to live.
Did you know they're remaking Logan's Run?
Are they really?
I sat at the science fiction convention, I sat next to this guy...
And he's sitting next to me and he's bitching, you know, about, like, there's not any people here.
And I was like, he was older.
And I was like, so what, you know, what's your deal?
Why are you bitching so hard, you know?
And he's like, basically, it comes out.
He's like, I wrote Logan's Run, you know?
joe rogan
Oh, wow.
daniel h wilson
And I'm like, you are so lucky that you had a movie made out of your book in the 70s.
And I think they bought their rights in the 60s.
That people still remember, right?
I mean, how easy for that to just go, you know, just be gone.
joe rogan
And he was just bitter?
Just wasn't a happy guy?
daniel h wilson
No, he actually seemed cool.
He was sort of like, he was at peace with the fact that in this world, you can show up and a hundred people be in line to get a book signed.
Or you can show up and it'll just be like, like nobody.
Or like that one guy that wants to talk about...
Every aspect of Star Trek and then he sort of wanders off without buying a book.
joe rogan
Oh, that's got to be brutal for those guys.
daniel h wilson
I just invested 20 minutes in you, buddy.
joe rogan
That's hilarious.
That's hilarious.
Yeah, that's got to be annoying for those guys because they're really trying to be friendly to people but they're also trying to sell some shit and get some things signed.
daniel h wilson
Well, I mean, at the end of the day, yeah, I mean, you're trying to sell a book.
joe rogan
It's got to be weird when you...
I know the book Logan's Run.
I remember it, but I don't remember anything about it.
I don't remember the movie.
I don't remember the book.
daniel h wilson
The movie was about all these people that basically...
It's like 70s.
Everybody's in unitards.
And you die whenever you're 30. And if you don't agree to die, they hunt you down and kill you.
You have like the little gem in your hand.
It starts flashing.
So Logan doesn't want to die, basically.
I mean, I haven't seen the movie in forever and ever, but he makes a run for it.
I mean...
joe rogan
So how much different is it from that Justin Timberlake movie?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, right.
That's what got me thinking about it, where you have a certain number of minutes to move.
joe rogan
Life points.
Yeah.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, not very.
joe rogan
It's not very different.
That theme has been explored.
Well, people are always concerned about the idea that one day, due to the fact that we can keep everybody alive...
And the fact that populations are exploding, we're continuing to figure out new diseases and how to cure people when they're sick and people are staying alive longer.
At what point in time does it become an issue?
Do they ever need to control it?
How do you even go about doing that?
So all these scenarios, like the Justin Timberlake movie or Logan's Run pop up where the evil government forces you into a contamination process.
I don't know.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I mean, again, I think at its heart it's about, like, being afraid that technology is going to change human nature.
Like, there are certain things that are innate about being human.
Like, we're born and we die, right?
I mean, come on.
Every single human being has lived and they're all going to die or they did die already.
And if you change that, then, I mean, that's scary stuff, right?
You're going into a completely unknown territory.
joe rogan
And ultimately, that's what everybody is shooting for with the height of technology.
The height of technology is to ascend past the physical body.
To get yourself into a position where you truly become immortal because you become part of some computer program.
daniel h wilson
See, man, I don't...
I'm not down with this.
Ray Kurzweil, he doesn't want to die.
He doesn't believe that he should have to die.
Yeah, no, this is what he says.
I mean, I understand.
He doesn't want to die.
And he says, you know, one way to avoid it is to have a machine that's going to Basically take a snapshot of every neuron in your brain, which they're all just little switches, right?
And it's going to figure out exactly what's going on in your brain, and then it's going to continue to simulate that.
But, like, part of me is just saying, yo!
When you die, even if you simulate yourself perfectly, you're freaking dead.
You're a pile of meat.
unidentified
You're dead.
joe rogan
And there's the other possibility that when you're dead and this other life goes on, it's going to be completely disconnected from reality and who knows how it's going to progress.
Just because it's a copy of the operating system and all the information and all the traits that your brain...
How the fuck do you know what that thing is once it's on its own?
daniel h wilson
You remember Robocop where they put the criminal guy's mind into a machine and he's like...
They turn him on and he's just like...
This demonic face like he's totally in agony and screaming and he doesn't know...
What's happened to him?
He's lost his embodiment as a human being.
I mean, if you lose your limb, that mentally screws you up because your brain has a map of who you are, right?
And then if you took your whole brain and stuck it into something that wasn't even a human body, I mean, that shit would mentally traumatize you.
It might drive you insane, you know?
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a good point.
daniel h wilson
And then you'd hunt down Robocop and try to give drugs to children.
joe rogan
Well, we don't know what the impact of it would be psychologically to all of a sudden be trapped in this immortal machine.
And what if there became ethical considerations to whether or not you should be able to shut yourself off?
Because we can't commit suicide, but can a person who's downloaded their consciousness into an eternal machine...
Can they figure out?
daniel h wilson
Are they alive even?
joe rogan
Or could you get some crazy guy like George Foreman who named all his kids George?
What if you like cloned yourself a billion times?
You're just like one nutty dude who just decided to make a million of you and set yourself loose on Cleveland.
daniel h wilson
There's a lot of science fiction that covers...
This is all post-singularity stuff and there's a lot of sci-fi that covers this because you...
You lose grasp on basic human things like what does it mean to die if there's a thousand other copies of you?
What does it mean to have a daughter if you have a thousand copies of you?
joe rogan
What does it mean to be you?
How did you become you?
Are you a collection of genes?
Are you a reaction to your environment?
Yeah.
There's certain people that you meet them and you go, wow, you're fucking cool.
Like, where did you come from?
You know, I love talking to you.
And you could run into 500 people and not feel that and then run into one where you just can't stop talking to them.
And it's like, what makes that?
How do you make that?
What combination of things?
daniel h wilson
And how would you hold on to that if you transferred them?
joe rogan
Whatever that magic is to us, that magic compelling sort of charm is to us, that's completely lost in the worlds of cold ones and zeros and machines.
unidentified
I agree.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, my whole outlook on science and what it's there for...
It's not a battle to defeat human nature or to escape from our meat or our bodies or our fates.
I think it's there to amplify what we've already got.
I think there's a lot of value.
joe rogan
We certainly can use it that way, yeah.
daniel h wilson
We're intellectual creatures, right?
We can live our lives in our heads and we can try to ignore our bodies or think of our bodies as impediments.
I don't work out.
I don't push my body.
I don't compete physically with people.
But I acknowledge that I eat.
I shit.
I have sex.
Tell us more.
I've made babies.
joe rogan
Dude, you're crazy.
daniel h wilson
These are all things that human beings do, right?
joe rogan
Right.
daniel h wilson
And to try to run away from that I think is crazy.
Because you've got to admit.
You've got to acknowledge you're embodied as a human being.
And if you...
Give in to that, then you, in some sense, are sort of fulfilling what you're there for.
It feels good to eat.
It feels good to go to the back.
Because it's natural.
joe rogan
Just to play devil's advocate.
What we're talking about is the concept of you becoming some sort of an immortal thing that doesn't do all the things that a human does.
But what if you do do all the things that a human does?
It's just that we've recreated it in a quote-unquote artificial form.
Instead of it being a carbon-based life form that occurred naturally, it's something that we engineered to occur.
But it is the same goddamn thing.
So it's not that you wouldn't shit.
It's not that you wouldn't eat.
But you'd be doing it in a new body.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That would be the ultimate form of it.
daniel h wilson
If you're not in a human body, right?
joe rogan
But it would be a human body.
daniel h wilson
If you get transferred into just a young human body?
joe rogan
I think they're going to be able to make human bodies.
With our idea of a robot, I think we'll certainly be able to make something that looks exactly like a human being.
But I think they're also going to be able to make a human being.
daniel h wilson
See, you're asking me to put my money where my mouth is basically because...
No, not really.
unidentified
No, no, no.
daniel h wilson
But really I think you are because...
And it's interesting to me because I haven't thought about it this way.
But you're saying, look, Wilson, if you think that because you're embodied as a human, you're obligated to experience life as a human and do all the things humans do.
Well, guess what all humans do?
They die.
joe rogan
Right.
daniel h wilson
Right?
So if you're saying that you really are putting your money where your mouth is, then you have to be willing to die, right?
unidentified
Right.
daniel h wilson
And acknowledge that that's a natural part of what humans do and a part of accepting your embodiment as a human.
I don't know.
I don't know if it came down to it.
I might not want to go over the rollercoaster.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think we don't want to leave behind the ones we love.
That's one of the big things.
We don't want to leave behind...
That would be one of the saddest things, your family being remorseful that you weren't around.
But the idea of what you're saying is you wouldn't want to be downloaded into some machine where you didn't experience all the joys an actual person experiences.
What I'm saying is I think they're going to be able to create artificial human beings that literally you will get a whole new body to download yourself into.
And you will drink wine, and you will enjoy it, and you will like blowjobs, and you will like water parks, and going skiing, and you will like doing all the things that a person likes.
You would just be doing it in this completely new physical existence that they've created, an artificial human being.
brian redban
With boobs and a vagina.
joe rogan
If Brian would have this one freak group on a forum somewhere, and Brian would be a part of it.
You have a penis and a vagina.
daniel h wilson
I'm into my soul.
You know, I still think doing that would violate a lot of what it means to be a human being.
joe rogan
Brian would have an excuse to be fat.
What he would do is he would put the vagina like an inch below his belly button so he could fold it over and literally fuck himself.
brian redban
Or just fuck your belly button.
Get your belly button winded.
joe rogan
Yeah, you could do that.
daniel h wilson
Throwing himself on doorknobs.
joe rogan
Wouldn't be as good though.
Bellybutton wouldn't be as good.
Yeah, it's gonna be really interesting to see what form all of this, you know, quote-unquote, progress and technological innovation, where it goes.
Because no one from, obviously, from the Lost in Space days, we were just looking at that.
No one saw this coming.
They didn't see the Internet coming.
They didn't see, you know, Twitter or, you know, Wi-Fi.
They didn't see any of that stuff.
Who knows what we're missing?
Who knows what, like, what...
One big thing that's going to change the whole ball of wax.
daniel h wilson
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like just drones.
You know, there was no drones in those old movies.
Like the Star Wars, there was like a few things that would fly around, like jets and shit.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, the little reconnaissance.
joe rogan
But not like what is going to be in our cities in just a few decades.
daniel h wilson
Looking to the military is not a bad idea.
Yeah.
The ARPANET was a DARPA project.
It turned into the internet.
GPS satellites, all that stuff, that was all military tech that eventually went public.
joe rogan
It would be so awesome if they weren't killing innocent people.
daniel h wilson
The Autonomous Vehicles is from a DARPA project.
That was from the Future Combat Initiative that has since gone away.
They wanted a lot of autonomous caravans because they were tired of humans getting blown up with IEDs.
So, looking to the military is not a bad idea if you want to see what's coming next for civilians.
joe rogan
The real spooky thing is the Air Force drone aviary, where they're working on all these different sized drones, flapping wing drones, drones that look like a bird.
They literally flap their wings and move like a bird.
There was a video where they showed all the different ones they have now, these dragonfly ones that fit on the tip of your finger.
It's incredible.
If these things were flying around, you would have no idea.
You would really think that that was a bug.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And that's just a couple years away.
They're going to be everywhere, filming everything.
daniel h wilson
Microwair vehicles, when they get smaller than six inches, all the flight dynamics change.
And so you have to start looking at insects instead of birds.
joe rogan
Oh, really?
So that's why the design changes like that?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, yeah.
And so that's all.
I mean, they study the dynamics of how insects fly, and then they try to replicate it.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, you really wouldn't be able to keep up those RPMs at the higher mass.
That's why a pterodactyl wouldn't fly like a dragonfly.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I'm not an expert on this in particular, but from what I understand, the way a fly actually flaps its wings is it's more of a scoop, because it's dealing with such a small number of particles of air, and it actually becomes almost more like a fluid, the way that it's interacting.
Yeah, you don't have to do that on a larger scale.
You can get lift without having to do that.
joe rogan
The agility of a fly, if you really wrap your head around it, like when you try to swat a fly and it darts away from you, it is mind-blowing how well those fuckers can move.
Crazy setup.
This little round body and these giant clear wings.
daniel h wilson
They have a lot of high level thought going on.
They're just wired straight to their nervous system to avoid obstacles.
joe rogan
Bees are way easier to swat out of the sky than flies are.
Killer bees.
You don't want that.
Killer bee honey.
When you swat a bee out of the sky though, it's really not that much of an accomplishment.
If you can actually swat a fly out of the sky, like whoa.
Bees kind of...
daniel h wilson
You've got to anticipate a fly.
joe rogan
Yeah.
brian redban
Flies are robots, that's why.
Flies and hummingbirds.
joe rogan
You know what, man?
If flies were big, we'd be fucking terrified.
If flies were from another planet and we found them, if we tuned into another planet and we sent a probe, a light year away or whatever, and they found giant insect forms, if they were giant flies, like flies the size of bulls...
daniel h wilson
Bulls, that's pretty big.
I was reading about this on io9.com.
They had a deal about this, because insects used to be a lot bigger.
And it's apparently, you know, they breathe through these little holes.
I can't remember what they're called.
But that's the way that they get oxygen, right?
And it used to be that there was more oxygen in the atmosphere.
And that's why the bugs were all a shitload bigger.
joe rogan
Is that why dinosaurs are so big too?
Because it would support their weight better?
daniel h wilson
I don't know.
I don't think so.
joe rogan
No?
daniel h wilson
No.
I'm not sure though.
But I know that the bugs, because of the way they breathe specifically, they don't have...
Like lungs, like we do.
They have just little holes, and I don't know exactly how it works, but apparently whenever there's a lot of high oxygen, you get a ratio that's better for them.
joe rogan
Well, yeah, what I said doesn't make sense.
But I think there was some question.
I took it from...
There was some question that the environment was thicker, that the atmosphere was thicker.
It was a very recent thing.
They were trying to figure out why they were so big.
Like, what led them to grow so large?
I forget what the article was about.
But I think that was part of the...
Part of the scenario that they're proposing was that something about the atmosphere was much different and that it was easier to support giant forms of life.
Then the other thing was, I guess, the trees and the vegetation was different back then.
A lot of these animals were vegetable eaters.
And then if you're going to have a giant brontosaurus, if something's going to eat it, it's got to be like a T-Rex.
It's got to be a giant, fucking, even bigger, crazier thing.
So it's almost like the more plants you have to eat, the bigger the things are that eat the plants and the bigger the things that eat the...
unidentified
Things.
joe rogan
Yeah.
We were talking about this documentary about an area of Africa that's cut off.
The river changed its course just a hundred years ago.
And this area has been isolated.
daniel h wilson
Straight up King Kong action?
joe rogan
Well, sort of.
It's lions and water buffaloes.
And the lions have grown larger because they have to only take down water buffaloes.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
So there's like one pack specifically of female lions that are big as male lions.
They're enormous.
And it's all because they have to take down water buffaloes.
Like they've adapted to this one particular area.
daniel h wilson
Every animal is a solution to a problem.
joe rogan
Yeah, but do robots, that's the question, do robots, and if they're going to have that engineered into their system, aren't us the first shit they're going to get rid of, man?
daniel h wilson
I don't think so.
I think that they're just, you know, robots are tools and if we design them well, they'll The fuckers are going to take over, dude.
joe rogan
Do you believe in a scenario where there's going to be people that don't even know that they're robots?
unidentified
I hope.
joe rogan
Yeah, you hope?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're going to marry one of those?
Bring one of those in?
daniel h wilson
Look, she's just going to stay with us for a while.
joe rogan
It just makes out with you when no one's around.
And then she cleans.
Yeah, it's like we're going to eventually have to deal with the moral aspects of ordering them around, having them as slaves, making them rust, sex tools.
daniel h wilson
I think that robots have the potential to be more human than we are, to be more moral than we are.
And to be great examples for our children, to raise our children.
I think we're going to become very, very, very intimate with these machines.
brian redban
Until I hack your robot.
joe rogan
Yeah, and then it's going to make your robot fuck you.
brian redban
Yeah, and kiss your kid.
joe rogan
Do you think it's ever possible that robots can be funny?
Will they ever figure that out?
Is that a mathematical...
Yeah, is that a problem?
Is that what that is?
daniel h wilson
I think, yeah, you could build a learner that would try to figure out what's funny specifically and tell jokes.
I'm sure people have done that.
I bet if you look for that, you'll find it.
joe rogan
I wonder if a robot could craft a bunch of things that were specifically funny.
Because...
We always want to think that, well, there's certain things you can't do, you can't recreate talent.
Maybe we can.
unidentified
They can paint paintings, they can create symphonies.
joe rogan
Maybe we're just very rudimentary right now in our thoughts on what robotics are or what artificial intelligence is, but why would we think that we're so special that we can't be recreated?
I mean, it's really kind of arrogant.
daniel h wilson
I know, and it's a losing battle, right?
It's like every year there's a new thing that they can do, and we're slowly shrinking down.
And you know, at the end of the day, the only thing that might be left is that morality, that ability to be good or evil.
That lump of meat that has to sit behind the steering wheel to take the blame.
That might be all we have to offer.
joe rogan
And we have to figure out what is that for, even?
Why does that exist?
What is it showing us about the human race where there's a positivity and there's energy to be derived from good behavior and from healthy behavior?
It's just very difficult to teach that to people.
And if you negatively reinforce it and give them a lot of negative energy in their life and a lot of negative experiences, then they recreate that sort of energy and they go after it over and over again.
They get addicted to a certain pattern.
That's the number one issue with engineering human beings, period.
Forget about robots.
We haven't even figured out how to get the human meat machine to operate in the correct manner.
daniel h wilson
That's the great thing about humans, right?
We think at least that we have the free will and then we can be good or evil.
If you program a robot to be good, no matter what, then it's not good.
It's just doing what it's programmed to do.
joe rogan
That's interesting.
daniel h wilson
So that's like a lot of trust.
I mean, if we ever have a machine that's capable of doing that, that's like creating life.
Because that's when you say, go out and do good or evil and then I want to see what you do.
That's some more biblical themes right there.
joe rogan
It really is, right?
daniel h wilson
Yeah.
joe rogan
And that really is biblical.
I mean, you really are creating a life form.
If you were 52 years old and you had been divorced several times and you had almost no money left and somebody gave you a beautiful robot sex slave that didn't want to vote and had no personality of its own, just existed to fulfill your sexual needs, maybe then you'd understand.
But right now you're a young man with hope in your eyes and dreams for the future.
If you were broken by a steady stream of bad relationship choices and divorces and you were living in a fucking shack outside of Palmdale with a car that's broken down, you wouldn't think twice about that robot fuck doll.
You'd be like, I'm out of the dating scene for life.
daniel h wilson
Do you think that would make people happy?
joe rogan
No, certainly not.
They'd probably...
Drown her and kill themselves in the process.
I don't know.
I think that it's very hard for people to be happy.
And one of the things that people need in order to be happy, in my opinion, is that you need happy people in your life.
You need to surround yourself with happy people.
That alone is very difficult to find because finding a group of people that have managed to maneuver and managed to carve a path through life that's been generating The majority of the people they're encountering with are enjoying their company.
The majority of it is a positive experience.
Goals have been fulfilled.
Health is in order.
All those different things, all those variables that have to be in place in order to find a truly happy person, it's really difficult to accumulate a bunch of people like that and get together.
So occasionally, like many of us in our lives, have known there are certain people we have to cut off.
There's a certain point in time, you know, okay, this person is an energy vampire.
They're never getting their own shit together.
daniel h wilson
Hold on, you gotta cut me off for one second.
joe rogan
You gotta pee.
daniel h wilson
I gotta pee, man.
joe rogan
See, son, my bladder's strong.
Mike Goldberg, you hear that?
Yeah, please go.
Let's go through right there at their door, and there's a door on the left.
See, dude, I ramble so hard I make people pee their pants.
That's how I do, son.
People are requesting a Brian Redband and Joe Rogan-only podcast for number 300. Oh, yeah.
Is that coming up?
Yeah, it's coming up, dude.
I think we only have a couple more weeks.
Yeah.
What number is this?
brian redban
284, I think.
joe rogan
That's ridiculous, son.
We should see if we could coincide it somehow or another.
We time them out right.
We can coincide it with the end of the month, which is when we started in the first place, right?
brian redban
We started December 31st.
joe rogan
Yeah, it was like New Year's Eve, I think.
They'll probably know before us.
But it seems like that'll wind up around there.
brian redban
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know?
We should probably time it to that.
unidentified
We should.
joe rogan
Yeah.
unidentified
That'd be cool.
joe rogan
And so we'll do a three-year anniversary.
We've been doing this for three years.
brian redban
That's crazy.
joe rogan
Isn't that ridiculous?
brian redban
Yeah.
joe rogan
I got a pee, too.
Do you have any robot questions for this dude?
brian redban
I don't know.
joe rogan
He's probably taking a big stinker in there.
He's taking a long front pee.
unidentified
He's snapping one off.
joe rogan
He might be beating off all this talk about sex and robots and robot fuck dolls in the Palmdale Desert.
brian redban
Let's check the toilet cam.
joe rogan
I think robot fuck dolls is probably going to be one of the first things that people invent besides maids.
If you can make a Tara Patrick looking maid, you're going to fuck it.
It's going to clean your house and you're going to fuck it.
brian redban
I think it's going to start off as a pet.
At first it's going to be some kind of animal, like a cat.
joe rogan
I got a pee too, man.
We're talking about Tara Patrick as a robot that you can fuck.
Elaborate, please.
daniel h wilson
Tara Patrick.
Oh, I'm taking over now, huh?
unidentified
You and you, Brian?
brian redban
Yeah.
So what do you think about the Olive Garden?
daniel h wilson
I think the Olive Garden is pretty nice.
brian redban
You know that there's a list of companies, including the Olive Garden and Red Lobster, where they're cutting everyone's hours so they don't have to give them health care.
Have you heard about this?
It's like Red Lobster, Olive Garden, all these legit companies.
And because of that Obamacare, they're cutting everyone's hours.
And it's pretty fucking weird watching these companies do that.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, it's sort of weird because you see that the corporations have rebounded.
They've got all this money, but they're still not quite trusting that the economy is better, so they're sticking with all the cuts they made and riding that as long as they can.
brian redban
Do you collect robots?
Do you have a collection of toys?
daniel h wilson
People give me robots a lot because I'm the robot guy.
I've been studying them.
I have a lot of them around the house, but Yeah.
brian redban
like some of the robot art you know yeah Eric Joyner he does all these robots and doughnuts yeah no it's it's it's pretty rad I remember the first robot I ever created back in the day that you had an erector set and I don't know if you remember that it used to be like this yellow case that you would open up and inside were like these miscellaneous motors and like metal pieces that you And one of the things that they give you instructions for is how to build a robot.
And this robot was just like, I think it had like eyeballs that were light bulbs and it moved and stuff.
But as a kid, it was like, I built my own robot.
daniel h wilson
There were like a lot of 80s robot kits that you could buy.
And they were like, look, it's a robot.
You're going to get a robot.
And then you get it and you're like, I don't know.
It's like Revenge of the Nerds, you know, they have that robot.
joe rogan
And you're like, I don't think it can really You remember Napoleon Dynamite where the uncle got a time machine and he kept trying to use it?
daniel h wilson
Yes, it's like that stuff.
I told a friend to meet me at 5, but I gotta text him real quick.
I'm so sorry.
joe rogan
Oh, that's okay, man.
brian redban
We actually have 5 minutes.
daniel h wilson
Oh, okay.
joe rogan
Is this really...
We're almost done.
daniel h wilson
Time flies, man.
joe rogan
10 minutes?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It was a long-ass podcast, dude.
It was fun, though.
Listen, if anybody wants to get a hold of you, they can get a hold of you on Twitter.
Your Twitter is...
What is it again?
It's Daniel Wilson PDX. Daniel Wilson PDX. I have to repeat it just in case they didn't hear you, even though you were very clear.
Daniel Wilson PDX, folks.
And you can also go to his website, which is DanielHWilson.com.
And the book is Robopocalypse.
Did I say it right?
daniel h wilson
Robopocalypse.
In Germany, it's called Robocalypse because the Po means ass.
joe rogan
Oh, really?
daniel h wilson
The German editors were like, hey, so we don't really want it to be like robot ass apocalypse.
joe rogan
That sounds perfect.
daniel h wilson
It's a whole different book.
joe rogan
That sounds better, man.
daniel h wilson
Why am I... I might have to do a rewrite.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're censoring you, man.
The man is trying to keep you from selling books.
That's fucked up, dude.
And Amped is the other book, right?
daniel h wilson
Yeah.
brian redban
It's on Kindle and all that stuff, right?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, they're in bookstores.
They're on Amazon.
brian redban
Oh, it's actually on Audible.
joe rogan
I got one of those Barnes& Noble Nooks.
It's pretty badass, dude.
I got it when I was in San Francisco.
I like it.
brian redban
Tell me when you get a real tablet.
joe rogan
What are you talking about?
I like that too, man.
But I like for reading, you know what I like about it?
That it looks like print on paper.
It doesn't have that look of like an LCD screen.
You know, the way the Kindles look.
You know, the Kindles and the Nooks, they both have that sort of same aspect to it.
daniel h wilson
I like the paper look, yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, I like that.
I think it's less eye strain for reading books.
And you can get your shit on that, right?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And what I love about that is on Kindle, if you highlight something in the book, then that stuff can be shared.
And so I can actually see what people are highlighting in the book and see what they like.
And people comment about it.
So let's say, you know...
That's some stupid shit.
joe rogan
How do they do that?
When they highlight it and share it, what do they do?
daniel h wilson
I think you have to have your settings to share.
joe rogan
Oh, that's beautiful.
What a great idea.
daniel h wilson
It's pretty cool as an author to be able to go onto Amazon and see what people are reading.
That's some new stuff.
joe rogan
Yeah, and see the exact quotes that people are responding to.
It's a stand-up comic.
Sometimes you'll say something at a show and the next night someone will quote it and they'll be laughing and you go, oh yeah, I forgot I even said that.
You know, it becomes these quoted things.
When you see your stuff highlighted and you see like the things that people really enjoy or did enjoy, how much does that affect your next writing?
Do you really look a lot at the feedback and try to like see it from their point of view?
daniel h wilson
No, man.
It affects my readings because I'll try to go read.
When I do a reading, I'll try to read like The part that people like, so they think I'm smart and good at writing.
joe rogan
So it affects which excerpts you choose for a reading thing.
daniel h wilson
But when I'm writing, man, when I'm nerding out and I'm all super excited, then I know I'm doing it right, basically.
joe rogan
Isn't that the coolest thing in the world?
Like when you're writing and an idea comes into your head and you're just following it down and it's like building and growing like right before your eyes.
Being able to create something and being able to, you know, come up with some shit that didn't exist before and then boom, then all of a sudden it does.
It's such an unbelievably satisfying experience.
daniel h wilson
And then it's there.
It hangs around.
You got it.
You're like, I did this.
This is what I did in 2009. It's right there.
It's a thing I made.
If you have a job where you're able to create and also make some kind of artifact that you have, you can say, I did that.
joe rogan
New York Times bestselling book.
And on top of that, people can continue to buy it.
It's always available.
They can always get it.
They can get it in a hard form.
They can get it in a digital form.
They can keep getting it.
daniel h wilson
I'm pretty curious what this movie is going to do for you.
joe rogan
Oh, it's going to blow through the roof.
If you just only had a few bitches getting rape-choked and gagged and ball-gagged and mouth-fucked, you just kind of have them abused a little bit more.
brian redban
Do your books go in order at all, if I'm ready to buy them?
daniel h wilson
No.
So Robopocalypse and Amped are two different standalone books.
joe rogan
What are your theories on this Fifty Shades of Grey thing and why women are into getting their mouths spit in and stuff like that?
What is this change?
What is what's going on here?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I mean, what do you think, right?
Because, well, it's interesting that it started out as fan fiction, right?
So this was Edward and Bella.
Really?
You didn't know that?
joe rogan
Oh, no, I did not.
daniel h wilson
This book was fan fiction.
joe rogan
Shut the fuck up.
Fifty Shades of Grey started out with Twilight?
daniel h wilson
Yes.
All they did, literally, was change the names of the characters.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
daniel h wilson
And then they published it.
joe rogan
That is ridiculous.
That's the most silly thing I've ever heard in my life.
daniel h wilson
It's the real deal.
joe rogan
So it was someone who was really into that and they just followed on that tone and created like a sexual bondage version of it.
daniel h wilson
You wonder, maybe that's what's the undercurrent, right?
I mean, so it's like...
Twilight has a story, you know, it has all this stuff, but there's obviously a deep sexual undercurrent.
It's a love story, right?
And so this lady just went for the jugular.
She said, forget all the bullshit.
joe rogan
Fuck vampires.
Okay, let's say he's a billionaire.
He's a financial vampire.
daniel h wilson
And then it's all just about fucking, you know?
unidentified
Wow.
daniel h wilson
Maybe that's it.
You know, it's just humans are not as complicated as we like to think.
Maybe that's what it's really about.
joe rogan
I certainly think that's the case, but I also think that women want to hear shit that's in their voice.
So, like, most pornography, I think, is from the male voice.
unidentified
What is that?
brian redban
I just bought his book.
daniel h wilson
Nice.
How beautiful is that?
You got Ernie Klein next to me.
joe rogan
I'm in good company.
unidentified
Powerful applications.
brian redban
Oh, yeah.
Have you read that book?
daniel h wilson
Sure.
I love it.
I blurbed it.
My blurb's on that book somewhere.
brian redban
Yeah, I'm reading it right now.
joe rogan
Do you think Apple will ever shrink that bitch down so it fits in your pocket?
brian redban
It does fit in my pocket.
joe rogan
Your, like, your pants pocket?
brian redban
Yeah, check this out.
daniel h wilson
He's got Apple brand pants.
joe rogan
Can you get some apple pants?
Okay, if you sit down, that is going to break and it's going to cut your dick in half.
daniel h wilson
Oh my god, it's one man, one iPad.
joe rogan
It's so going to cut your dick.
You will be one man, one iPad.
Don't ever take that out when you're drunk.
But if you have a nice man purse, you can carry that around easily.
I'm sitting down normal.
No, you're not.
You're going to die.
daniel h wilson
Your voice is high.
joe rogan
You should commit to a man purse.
Commit to a man purse.
So you're a big proponent of that, using that, because you can get online with it.
brian redban
I do.
joe rogan
Photos, everything.
It does pretty much everything.
brian redban
I got the non-cellular one because I have an iPhone that has a hotspot.
But I think more that I'm using the hotspot feature on the iPhone, I think if you were going to get it, do get the one with the cell phone service built into it.
It's just kind of more of a pain in the butt, like, oh, I've got to turn on my hotspot.
joe rogan
Right, that's what I was thinking.
I was thinking that it would probably be better to wait for the other version of it.
brian redban
But as compared to the two iPads, I have both of them.
Definitely I love this one better.
joe rogan
It's enough.
It's what you need, right?
What was crazy when we were in Seattle and we were streaming from it, we streamed a Ustream show from it.
brian redban
Yeah.
joe rogan
We lost Daniel.
daniel h wilson
Sorry.
joe rogan
Do you give a fuck about this kind of stuff?
Or are you just holding into robotics?
daniel h wilson
I'm sorry.
Whatever.
No worries, man.
I don't really collect a lot of gadgets.
joe rogan
No?
unidentified
Really?
daniel h wilson
I have this thing that is like the magnet doodle, you know?
Where you use the little magnet thing and you draw on it.
And that's like the closest thing to an iPad that's like at my house right now.
unidentified
It's really sad.
brian redban
The one with the clown?
Or what's the one with the clown?
daniel h wilson
It is a toy from my kid, yeah.
brian redban
Lightbrite's pretty badass.
daniel h wilson
I keep meaning to.
unidentified
Lightbrite?
Lightbrite?
daniel h wilson
Honestly, I'm just scared because it changes everything.
Every time you get one, you know, like already, if I look at the stupid phone, you saw that, it sucks you in.
You totally immediately forget about everything.
I'm like a little retarded with this.
joe rogan
Yeah, when someone has a new one, five minutes, we're almost done.
If someone has a new one, man, I'm drawn to it.
Like a baby.
daniel h wilson
And that's the other thing.
Little kids love it, right?
So if you bring it, it's like bringing crack home.
joe rogan
It's amazing.
daniel h wilson
And you're done.
And I'm kind of afraid of how it will affect my kids, too.
joe rogan
Well, there's educational shows on there.
And there's educational games that they can count.
They learn how to count things.
daniel h wilson
Wasn't I hearing earlier about a certain feline companion that enjoys using the iPads?
brian redban
Yeah, oh yeah, my cat plays with my iPad and pisses all over my couch.
daniel h wilson
And that's not a euphemism for anything?
joe rogan
My cat.
daniel h wilson
My cat plays with my iPad and then she pisses all over my couch.
brian redban
Oh no, I do live with a black guy.
A black gentleman.
My cat.
joe rogan
He's an old cat.
unidentified
Was.
joe rogan
Name is William.
Go by the name of William.
brian redban
He likes iPad.
unidentified
Cat was born in the 40s.
daniel h wilson
Yeah, right?
joe rogan
He's an old one-pocket player.
brian redban
It's actually Cat Williams.
joe rogan
Oh.
Cat Williams.
Okay.
brian redban
Enough said.
joe rogan
Enough said.
Anyway, ladies and gentlemen, I think we gave out all the information.
We probably could.
Daniel H. Wilson PDX on Twitter.
Daniel H. Wilson.
No, it's Daniel Wilson PDX on Twitter, not Daniel H. Wilson.
So Daniel Wilson PDX on Twitter, DanielHWilson.com.
Thanks a lot, man.
It's been really fun.
It was a fun conversation, really interesting stuff.
And if you ever have anything you want to promote, you want to come back, do it again.
We'd be happy to have you on.
daniel h wilson
Dude, I had a great time.
Sorry I had to urinate.
That's so human of me.
joe rogan
I had it too.
Once you did it, you broke the ice.
I had to go do it too.
But we know.
Look, it's fucking three hours.
We don't even take commercial breaks.
But I think it makes for a better conversation that way.
It's hard to...
It's hard to take a commercial break and then come back and just pick up where you were.
It just seems awkward, you know?
So we do it this way, and it requires people to hold their bladder and keep it together.
I think you did an excellent job, though.
You had a big thing of water.
You lasted like two hours.
That's pretty strong.
daniel h wilson
Thank you guys so much for having me on.
joe rogan
You're welcome, man.
unidentified
Thank you.
daniel h wilson
I had a great time.
joe rogan
And one more time, the two books, your books are Robopocalypse and Amped, and those are the ones that you're promoting, right?
But you have more than that, right?
daniel h wilson
Yeah, I have some.
joe rogan
How many books do you have altogether?
daniel h wilson
Eight.
unidentified
Eight.
joe rogan
Go buy them, bitches.
brian redban
Go get them on Audible.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Do you have them on Audible?
brian redban
Yeah.
joe rogan
Beautiful.
Go to audible.com.
And if you go to audible.com forward slash Joe, you can get a free book and you get a 30-day free membership to one of the best services that I think...
I love Audible.com.
I love the idea behind it.
And they have a massive selection, including this young man's fantastic robot books.
So go get it, you dirty bitches.
Thanks to Onnit.com.
That's O-N-N-I-T. Go and get yourself some New Mood, bitch, or some Alpha Brain.
If you have any questions about these supplements, there's a 100% money-back guarantee on the first 30 pills.
You don't even have to return the product.
No one's trying to rip you off.
They're just trying to save you The looking for the best shit possible.
Sell you all the stuff that I would use.
Use the code name Rogan and you will save yourself 10%.
Alright, this fucking show's over.
Oh, if you use the code name Sandy, we'll take that 10% and we'll donate it towards Hurricane Relief.
We actually decided to go with the Salvation Army because in this case, the Salvation Army is using 100% of the proceeds for Hurricane Relief.
It's like a lot of them...
It actually gets down to like as low as like 30% actually goes to the people and the victims.
But Salvation Army in this case, it's 100%.
So we're going with them if you use the code name Sandy.
All right, fuckers.
We might see you tomorrow.
We got a lot of work to do.
We're going to be at the new studio, tightening shit down.
Brian and I are just starting to set that place.
I was not quite done yet.
Takes time, bitches.
Takes time.
But I'll see you guys all in Montreal for sure this Friday at the Metropolis with Duncan Trussell.
All right, go fuck yourselves.
See ya.
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