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May 1, 2012 - The Joe Rogan Experience
19:40
Joe Rogan Experience #211 - Ari Shaffir (Part 2)
Participants
Main voices
j
joe rogan
08:11
Appearances
a
ari shaffir
03:51
b
brian redban
03:15
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
And we're back to wrap it up.
joe rogan
We just stepped outside.
Sacrified the sacred plant to the fire gods.
Try to put Brian in a better state of mind.
I think you feel like a lot of people are attacking you.
brian redban
I get attacked a lot nowadays.
joe rogan
I know you do.
We talked about that earlier, but we're not attacking you.
And one of the things that I think that's real important that I brought up earlier is be generous to a point where it's indefensible.
Be generous to a point where, you know, people know that what you're doing is you're doing it all for the right reasons.
brian redban
I think if you're a listener, you know that already, what I do for comedy.
unidentified
And that was the one thing I started screaming at Duncan was like, you don't understand how much I do for comics.
My free time is devoted to 100% of doing shit for free for other comics.
Now, if they don't see that...
ari shaffir
I would tell you this, though, but there's a lot of clubs over the years that have had this theory that, well, you're lucky to be getting the stage time.
And a part of comedians, we don't respect ourselves, so we're like, absolutely, you're absolutely right.
But that other part is like, fuck.
brian redban
Yeah, but I'm also not driving to Pasadena fucking editing audio software for you.
unidentified
I'm not fucking doing all this shit.
That's not the same as saying, like, yeah, you should be happy to be in this room.
joe rogan
Listen, bro, what you're doing, Listen, this is what you're doing.
You set up a beautiful thing.
It ain't bad.
There's nothing wrong with it.
And when I ask you about how many shows you want, just to sort of illuminate people as to what you're doing.
I like what you're doing.
I like a lot of shows that come out of what you're doing.
But I think that we have to always be very careful that if there's any money that's ever taking place in any sort of a thing where you're selling comedy, comedians get super defensive and super sensitive when you're selling a show and the comics are going to go up and do their stand-up and they're not going to get compensated from it, but yet they know that money is exchanging hands.
unidentified
Well, it's a show that people don't use as a workout room for the most part.
These are people that are just like fucking around, like not actually like I'm selling.
And plus the fact that there's like seven or eight people usually on each one of these shows.
brian redban
I think it's a little different than if I were like, hey, me, Ari, and you are doing a show at the Hollywood Improv.
ari shaffir
It scales.
It's definitely scales.
joe rogan
Well, you wouldn't get to do that.
First of all, the reason why you get to control this money at all is because I gave it to you.
Because I don't...
I'm not paying you to rent that place out.
And since then, I'm like, look, I'll give you all my money from my shows.
unidentified
So the shows will sell out.
joe rogan
The shows I do are 90% of the shows that go on there.
unidentified
Well, I do them every week.
Usually, you're not there every week.
joe rogan
Okay, let's not say 90%.
It's more than half.
More than half.
And it's more than pays the rent.
The idea being that I think...
When a comic knows that you're...
Even if you're only making $150 to a comic that's like, why doesn't he make $50 and give us $50?
That's how they think.
You're selling stand-up comedy.
brian redban
And this is why the fact that you guys are doing all this, to me, I'm like, alright, bottom line, each one of these shows for going in there and being there for five hours, for going in there and putting together all these comics, putting up advertising and making posters for it, all this...
All this shit, if it's not worth $150, if it's not worth $150, then I'm not doing it.
unidentified
If I'm getting this much trouble for $150, fuck it then.
I'm not doing it anymore.
ari shaffir
Wait, but hold on, hold on.
At $15 a ticket, $150, even at 60%, that's 20 tickets.
unidentified
I'm saying the average after-tax.
ari shaffir
Uh-huh.
brian redban
That I get after paying the host in comics or whatever is usually about $150.
joe rogan
Well, look, if you're spending money paying the comics and you feel good about that, you could sit down with them and say, look, I'm paying you.
unidentified
Because you know what?
brian redban
The only reason what it is, it's whoever you heard it from or whatever whispers you heard it from.
And Duncan, for some reason, who's been on one show, I think.
ari shaffir
We're going to pay the comedy store for $15.
unidentified
Yeah, but Duncan's been on one show, I think.
ari shaffir
We like it.
We like the $15 we get at the comedy store.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
It's just like, oh, cool.
It's something nominal to say.
unidentified
I get it.
ari shaffir
You want it.
unidentified
I get it, man.
I get it.
But I'm just saying that after that...
joe rogan
I know what you're saying.
You're saying that you...
unidentified
It's not worth it to me.
I don't give a shit.
joe rogan
You're saying you're doing a good thing by creating this spot for them to warm up and they don't appreciate that.
And that if you're not at least getting something out of it, like $150, you're not going to do it.
unidentified
Or just doing it.
brian redban
Honestly, you know how hard it is devoting almost every Friday to being somewhere and on fact of that, being on there for five or six hours?
unidentified
That's called a job.
joe rogan
I completely understand that.
unidentified
On the worst night ever.
joe rogan
But to comedians, they're also doing a job too.
And they're also selling something valuable, their work and their material.
And they know that even though you are putting together a promotion, the promoter shouldn't be the only one that's getting money out of it.
unidentified
No, and they don't.
joe rogan
Well, we need to work that out.
That should be an indefensible position.
unidentified
No, you know what it should be?
It should be each one of the comics that come on it either goes, hey, can I get $20?
ari shaffir
I'm like, okay.
joe rogan
Well, you want them to ask for money?
unidentified
No, no.
brian redban
If you are somebody that are like, no, I think I need to be paid, I think I need to deserve it, compared to me, I will do almost any show for free.
unidentified
I never care about fucking money at all.
joe rogan
Okay, Brian, but you're fair.
ari shaffir
Hold on, but then you're saying I need to get this $150.
unidentified
What's that?
ari shaffir
Hold on, just so you know, $30 to an MC is 20 paid tickets after taxes.
brian redban
I get it, but for comedy, I don't want to get paid for the most part.
unidentified
I don't think that I need to get paid.
I have fun with it.
ari shaffir
So then why don't you give out this money to people?
unidentified
Huh?
ari shaffir
Why don't you give out the money to people?
Give them 20 bucks a piece.
Give them 40 bucks a piece.
unidentified
That's what I do.
joe rogan
But you haven't been doing that.
unidentified
Yes, I have.
ari shaffir
I haven't gotten that since the first time we did that show.
unidentified
Why do you think that?
joe rogan
But that was what you were saying.
You said you only paid the hosts.
brian redban
No, I paid hosts in any comics that I know.
joe rogan
How many people have asked for money?
ari shaffir
Okay, but just because they're poor doesn't mean there's less or more deserving of that money.
If I do a spot for 15 minutes, I don't care if you do a spot for 15 minutes too, Joe.
I don't deserve that more or less than him.
unidentified
No, no, no one.
brian redban
The only time I really ever pay somebody is if I know for these shows.
unidentified
If I know this person, I would appreciate it.
You know, like, dude, thank you so much, man.
You know, I fucking have no money and stuff like that.
brian redban
But when it's somebody that's pretty comfortable, like, I feel like I'm very average-paced.
Like, if it's something like me, because it's pretty comfortable, I don't want you to pay me, and I'm not doing it for money.
unidentified
That's your decision.
And this show has always been like when, hey, I got this room in the ice house.
You want to do it?
It's like a workout room.
Totally.
brian redban
I consider this more like, do you want to come to a really good audience at a workout room?
ari shaffir
Yeah.
Well, then here's what you should do.
unidentified
Not a show.
ari shaffir
Charge no cover.
Tell the ice house, hey, give me 150 bucks.
I'll pack this place.
Charge no cover and there's no problem.
unidentified
Absolutely.
That's a great idea.
joe rogan
Terrible idea.
unidentified
Yeah.
Great idea, because you know why?
ari shaffir
I'm not in it for money.
unidentified
I'm not in it for money.
ari shaffir
I charge five bucks, and I keep it as low as possible.
Anybody who asks for a comp, I give it to them, and I still give the rest to charity, because I don't want the responsibility.
unidentified
Somebody else can completely do the desk watch show there.
joe rogan
Brian, it's very difficult to say you're not in it for money and then say you need a certain amount of money or you won't do it.
brian redban
Because in my opinion, if I had to be asked, hey, every Friday you have to...
ari shaffir
The work you'd put into it.
unidentified
Yeah.
brian redban
If you have to go here, you have to sit here and record work.
And then those podcasts usually go from like three to five hours.
ari shaffir
Well, not the podcast, because some people don't...
Oh, those podcasts...
joe rogan
I think the move is to put it all in the hands of the Ice House.
Give the Ice House the contact numbers for all the people that want to be on the show.
unidentified
Well, that's what I do.
That's what I do.
joe rogan
Have them pay it.
unidentified
That's what I do.
Whenever I don't want to do it.
ari shaffir
They don't pay either.
They pay their headliners a hundred bucks, those Ice House people.
joe rogan
Do they really?
unidentified
Well, it's...
ari shaffir
It was always a thing.
A hundred bucks for headliners.
Except for when you or Gabriel would come in.
unidentified
These comedy clubs aren't making that much fucking money.
They have to pay the staff.
They have to...
joe rogan
It's true.
That place especially has got so much history behind it.
That place has been around for 50 plus years.
It's such a great place.
But I think that we've got to be real considerate of comics and the fact that comics have a legitimate gripe when it comes to worrying about someone making money.
I mean, it has to be explained, I think, in a...
In a thoughtful manner, and not in this knee-jerk, sort of angry, yelly, sort of shouty type of way.
brian redban
Live in front of other people when you don't even come to me and talk to me.
unidentified
I thought we were friends.
Fuck you, Duncan Trussell.
joe rogan
Oh, come on, man.
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
unidentified
Fuck Duncan Trussell.
joe rogan
Stop, man.
Stop.
Look, this is this kind of...
ari shaffir
Why?
Because he told you on a podcast.
unidentified
Because he's, you know what, I'm just done.
brian redban
I've done so much for that dude and he just pretty much attacked me.
unidentified
I was like, fuck him.
joe rogan
Well, you know what, if he had no point, no place to stand, if he had no point, if he had no place to talk to you about this, there was no argument there, then it would have no impact.
The reason why it has somewhat of an impact is because it is an arguable position.
ari shaffir
Is there ever a way to talk about it where someone says, let's just say this argument, say, hey, so-and-so, you should pay this much money to so-and-so, and instead of going like, what the fuck, I do this and this, instead of going that, I go, well, hmm, let me think about that.
Why should I or shouldn't I pay this person this much money or less money or more money and just have a nice conversation about it?
joe rogan
Yeah.
brian redban
That's why I don't think it's worth it to me.
joe rogan
Well, I think you took on a job that you didn't quite know how much time it was going to take.
unidentified
I did just go on stage.
joe rogan
It's a lot of effort.
Just to call the people and schedule the times and have them come in, I wouldn't want to do it.
brian redban
I went from going to doing open mics with a lot of these people that I have on these shows or just going to different clubs and doing stage time and never doing real shows with these people.
So when I decided to take on this crazy shit, it was more like, hey, I got access to this room.
unidentified
I can make a show and we can get all together and we can have a show once a week.
It'd be cool.
joe rogan
So you didn't think of it as a financial decision at all.
It was just for fun.
unidentified
Absolutely.
ari shaffir
One of the things we were talking about, though, when we had this conversation with Madrigal and you there at the Ice House those nights, one of the things we were all saying is, and we'll just take the money.
Not them.
We will.
It'll be us.
But how many tickets would you have to sell to get $150 at $15 apiece?
brian redban
Average, I think that thing holds $75 or something like that.
unidentified
Sometimes they stuff in a lot.
ari shaffir
So 10 people and you only get, you take taxes out of that?
So you only get 60% of that?
unidentified
Huh?
ari shaffir
I'm trying to think how many tickets you would have to sell to go over that $150 mark.
unidentified
I have no idea.
I don't know.
I don't get 100% of the door.
ari shaffir
You get 60% of the door.
unidentified
I think so.
Something like that.
Dude, I don't want to talk about any of this shit anyway.
joe rogan
Well, I think I made a mistake.
ari shaffir
I literally don't want to talk about it.
joe rogan
I made a mistake as well, and I just handed it over to you.
Because the first couple of shows, I was getting paid for it.
But when I just handed it over to you, I should have said, let's sit down and figure out where this should go.
And that we should have the rent paid for, and the insurance, and all the other bullshit.
unidentified
You know what?
To me, it's not even worth it to me.
brian redban
I'll go somewhere else once a week and do comedy somewhere else and enjoy myself and not get paid for it and just have fun.
The last thing I'm going to do is like, thank you so much for letting me have the stage time.
unidentified
Fucking, you should pay me.
What the fuck?
I'm going to talk about it.
ari shaffir
No, no.
That's not the way people are saying it.
They're just saying, Brian's going to be one of those guys that's not paying comedians.
Yeah, but it just feels like that because you feel attacked all the time.
You can't have a regular conversation.
unidentified
I am attacked.
Have you not been looking at Twitter?
I'm getting attacked by fucking...
Jay Moore.
I'm getting attacked by Duncan Trussell.
I'm getting attacked by fucking Jay and James.
I'm getting attacked by everybody.
ari shaffir
What does that mean, attacked?
What does that even mean?
Not exactly.
What does that mean?
They're saying a thing they don't like about something you do.
unidentified
I'm going to fucking do this to you.
I'm going to do that to you.
joe rogan
There's a path with least resistance out there.
I know it.
unidentified
It's called not bringing it up on a podcast and getting into it so everyone knows about this.
Thanks a lot, guys.
ari shaffir
What are you talking about?
joe rogan
Ryan, what are you talking about, man?
ari shaffir
You make it impossible to talk to you about anything when you react this way.
joe rogan
You turn this into some crazy situation that it's not.
I can understand you don't want to book a comedy show.
I can understand it being a tremendous time-consuming thing.
unidentified
I don't want to book it.
joe rogan
Well, listen, let's all talk about this and figure out a way where we can have a show that the Ice House books.
They're professionals.
That's what they do.
brian redban
You know, what I might do is I might do an Ice House Chronicles, and I will make it just, you know, some other thing.
unidentified
I'll make it just like a green room while somebody else can do the room, and I'll have nothing to do with that room.
ari shaffir
So Brian, just so you know, this reaction we're getting from you is the normal reaction we get from you when we bring something up.
So does that make it more likely for us to bring things up to you or less likely?
To be open and honest.
unidentified
I tell you why.
Because honestly, I am so fucking busy that I don't even need to deal with any of this.
brian redban
I would rather just do this podcast, be happy, do everyone else's podcast, be happy, and not have something that's such a big deal that I thought was just helping friends out.
joe rogan
I think you got a good point.
I think you got a good point in that.
I think it is a lot more responsibility and a little extra thing that you have to chew on every week.
And I think it can still be done and done through the Ice House.
This way, the Ice House pays people and we'll set aside a chunk of it so you can get paid for running the Ice House Chronicles while the show is going on.
ari shaffir
Plus pay the guy.
unidentified
Plus pay the guy $40.
ari shaffir
You know what?
brian redban
Or I can just do the exact same thing I was doing and any comic that wants to get paid, I'll give them money.
joe rogan
Oh man, you can't ask people to ask for money.
unidentified
No, I don't.
You know what I do?
Half the time I go, hey, you want some cash?
And then they go, no, dude.
joe rogan
And I'm like, okay.
ari shaffir
How many times did that happen?
unidentified
A lot more than you would think, Ari.
joe rogan
Well, I've never done that to me.
unidentified
I gotta get out of here.
ari shaffir
You've never offered me money that I've turned out, so no, don't worry about it.
joe rogan
It's not stupid.
ari shaffir
People are talking about it.
You don't want to become one of those guys that doesn't pay people.
unidentified
I don't even feel like talking about it.
ari shaffir
I know, you know, that's why it's hard to bring up.
That's why saying I'd like to get paid, it's a hard thing to bring up.
But Brian isn't a podcast.
joe rogan
It isn't boring.
unidentified
To me, podcasts should be entertaining, not like, hey, let's bust open Brian and fucking see why he's thinking about financial shit.
joe rogan
No one's trying to bust you open.
unidentified
Open on a podcast?
If we were at a fucking restaurant, we could talk about all this.
I don't feel like dealing about this on a podcast.
Sorry.
ari shaffir
I bring stuff up to you outside the podcast.
unidentified
Let's talk about your fucking paychecks.
Let's talk about what you do for a living.
joe rogan
It's very understandable, Brian, but do you understand that you get into this really angry, defensive position with people that aren't even attacking you?
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
Do you understand that you do that sometimes?
Listen, man, it's avoidable sometimes.
You can talk in a rational tone.
I mean, I've been guilty of it as well.
ari shaffir
All the drama that's happening in your life is easily avoidable.
There's fights to the death with like seven people right now.
joe rogan
You don't need all that.
Brian, what you're doing is a great thing.
What you're doing with your podcast network for those guys, they should be happy.
ari shaffir
Those Chronicle shows are great.
I'll drive out there just to do it.
joe rogan
Yeah, and what you said about Freddie Lockhart needing the network to get him on, that is true.
It is all true.
ari shaffir
Should they lead with you every time and say, hey, just so you know, you do a lot of great things for me, but I'd like to bring up this one thing?
Would that help?
unidentified
If you guys don't think that what I do helps comedy or helps comics...
joe rogan
It does.
ari shaffir
You're reading us any negative comment as you must hate everything about it.
brian redban
If you think there's a better Death Squad idea, I would gladly change the name of Death Squad to something just to make you happy.
joe rogan
It's not even that.
Death Squad is you.
You're a part of Death Squad.
You know, all of our friends are part of Death Squad.
The fact that you and Duncan don't talk right now is disgusting.
unidentified
You know what?
And that's called trimming fat.
He's done a few things in the past that I've let go, and you know what?
I don't need that guy.
brian redban
I've helped that dude so many times, and I've been on his podcast once.
joe rogan
Well, listen, Duncan is no perfect person, but I love that guy to death.
I'm no perfect person either, and neither are you.
I think we can avoid these kind of conversations in the future if we just calm down a little bit, man.
And what I said about being...
Being inarguably generous.
ari shaffir
You don't have to be inarguably generous.
You can have a straight deal with people.
You don't have to say, I'm going to give you all my profits.
joe rogan
I'm not saying all the profits.
I'm saying just completely reasonable.
unidentified
That's fine indeed, but why are we talking about this on a podcast?
That's what I'm talking about.
We should be talking about fucking farts in Olive Garden.
joe rogan
We don't have to talk about only farts and all, Brian.
This is a good conversation for all of us.
It's a good conversation for me to understand that sometimes you don't feel like you're getting enough credit for all the work you're doing for all those guys that are on your network.
ari shaffir
You've built this It's a platform where a lot of people find you.
Find people because of that platform that you've built up.
joe rogan
And I've been very supportive of it, Brian.
And I've been trying to help it.
And I talk about it all the time on this podcast and tell people to subscribe to it.
And I tell people to subscribe to it on Twitter.
And that's the only way to get it.
The Ice House Chronicles is to go through Death Squad.
No one's trying to stop it.
ari shaffir
It doesn't mean everything you've ever done with it is completely the right way to go.
You have to be able to bring up something in order to get better.
joe rogan
Yeah, we're not trying to stop anything.
We're just talking.
The Ice House thing can all be worked out.
And I think it's a huge burden on your back too financially when it comes to figuring out who gets paid and taking taxes out and shit.
unidentified
It's just not worth it.
joe rogan
That's not worth it.
unidentified
I just wanted to do comedy.
ari shaffir
I'll tell you what you can avoid.
If you slap everybody 10 bucks, then they'll feel a lot more appreciated.
unidentified
You know what?
I just need an employee to go and actually do that for me.
joe rogan
We'll talk about this after the podcast.
We need to hire you an assistant, so let's get going with that.
ari shaffir
What's that Asian guy?
What does he do?
joe rogan
That guy, he's gone with the wind.
Dust in the wind.
All we are is dust in the wind.
I'm sorry if this was uncomfortable, ladies and gentlemen.
ari shaffir
Very uncomfortable, but unnecessarily uncomfortable.
joe rogan
It didn't have to be, and Brian needs to know that we all love him, and he's doing a good thing.
ari shaffir
I think that's what it is.
You don't realize that people still like you if they mention any sort of critique, but they still do like you.
joe rogan
Last thoughts, Brian?
Please be positive.
Last thoughts, Brian?
unidentified
Uh...
Fuck Duncan Trussell.
joe rogan
Oh, come on.
How dare you?
After all that, you go to fuck Duncan Trussell?
unidentified
Yep.
joe rogan
Come on, let's think of something positive.
How to end this positive.
unidentified
Uh...
Go buy Ari's shirt.
It's awesome.
joe rogan
It's not for sale yet.
ari shaffir
Oh yeah.
unidentified
In two weeks or something like that.
joe rogan
Summise this, Brian.
Wrap it up.
Bring it all home.
Bring it all home in a positive way.
unidentified
The fans know.
ari shaffir
No, it's not a contest.
There's no fight.
Don't make fights.
joe rogan
Yeah, what do you mean the fans know?
unidentified
They know how much I work for you guys.
joe rogan
They know how much you work for us guys?
ari shaffir
You're an interesting cat, Brian.
unidentified
They know.
They know the time I put in doing all this shit.
joe rogan
Yeah, everybody knows the time you put into it.
Brian, it's not bad.
unidentified
Right, so you wouldn't say I'm stealing from comics, would you?
joe rogan
Brian, I've never said you're stealing from comics.
unidentified
I know you did because he did.
joe rogan
When Duncan said that, he was out of line.
And he was upset at you because he was making an argument about South by Southwest.
And he didn't feel that you should have been interjecting what you were saying when his whole argument was about they offered him to come out there and not pay him.
It's a silly, emotional thing between two guys that got dragged out in a public way that was unfortunate and unnecessary.
He shouldn't have done that.
You acted in a very, you know, angry and, you know, fucking violent way, and I had to actually separate the two of you guys.
I mean, the whole thing was crazy.
unidentified
No, you didn't.
brian redban
I was trying to leave the room, and you wouldn't let me leave the room.
joe rogan
What are you talking about?
You were pushing towards him.
brian redban
No, I was screaming at him with my finger pointed towards his direction.
joe rogan
You were moving towards him to the point where I had to stop you.
unidentified
What am I going to do?
joe rogan
I don't know if you're going to do anything.
I didn't think you were going to do anything.
But you were so mad.
unidentified
I was mad.
Alright.
And that's why I say...
ari shaffir
Why be so mad?
unidentified
Duncan Trussell.
joe rogan
Brian.
ari shaffir
And just be like, nah, you're wrong.
joe rogan
Brian, you know we love you, right?
unidentified
Yep.
joe rogan
Do you know we love you?
unidentified
Yep.
ari shaffir
I think sometimes you don't, Brian.
We really do appreciate the work you do.
We can't do a lot of shit without you.
joe rogan
If we give you a big hug right now, are you going to feel better?
unidentified
No.
ari shaffir
No, he's going to feel way more uncomfortable.
joe rogan
No big hugs?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
Alright, we'll see you tomorrow.
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