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Oct. 5, 2010 - The Joe Rogan Experience
03:23:03
JRE MMA Show #46 with Ari Shaffir
Participants
Main voices
a
ari shaffir
01:32:33
j
joe rogan
01:45:40
Appearances
Clips
a
andy stumpf
00:05
a
anthony cumia
00:01
j
jamie vernon
00:27
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Speaker Time Text
ari shaffir
Bobby Kelly got us.
unidentified
Five, four, three, two, one.
joe rogan
Can you talk about that on air or no?
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah?
What were you going to say?
ari shaffir
He got us these knives made.
We went bushwhacking.
Oh.
And this one guy was like, I want to make you guys knives.
So he made me, Joe Liss, and Robert Kelly custom knives.
joe rogan
Bushwhacking knives, huh?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like machete-type knives?
ari shaffir
Yeah, chop up some wood.
joe rogan
Oh.
ari shaffir
What were you guys doing?
Camping, hiking, and then hiking like four hours to a campsite.
joe rogan
Bobby Kelly loves fly fishing, right?
Isn't he a big fly fisher?
ari shaffir
Yeah, yeah.
Maybe.
He likes doing shit that his body shouldn't allow him to do.
Yeah, it's crazy.
joe rogan
You know, I knew him when he was skinny.
ari shaffir
That's nuts.
I see that picture of him, that headshot at the Comedy Cellar.
I'm like, that's that guy?
joe rogan
Dude, he was like my size.
He was like a normal-sized person.
ari shaffir
It's nuts to me.
joe rogan
It is nuts.
Yeah.
When I met him, we were working together, and he lived in a home with special needs kids.
And he would like take care of him.
He was like a counselor or some sort of a teacher or something with special needs kids.
And he was totally normal size.
ari shaffir
Wow.
joe rogan
Like you would see him like, let me compare him to somebody.
ari shaffir
He's a fat fuck now.
joe rogan
I haven't seen him in a long time.
ari shaffir
I mean, let me just trash him for a minute about his being overweight.
joe rogan
I'm sad because I really like that guy.
He's a sweetheart.
ari shaffir
Yeah, well enjoy him while you can.
joe rogan
He has a kid too, right?
ari shaffir
Yeah, he has a kid.
Great kid.
joe rogan
Well, why is he allowing himself to eat himself to death?
ari shaffir
Okay, well, I think a little bit.
In the addict's mind, you don't really have it.
You're not really an addict.
It's like the replacement thing is real.
You gotta replace one with the other.
joe rogan
What was his addict before?
ari shaffir
I think coke and booze.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's a thing, man.
ari shaffir
That's a real thing.
Every time he tries to get in shape, he does a month, and then it just falls off for a day, and then just keeps falling off.
He's fatter than ever now.
joe rogan
Yeah, I saw a photo from that cruise that Bert went on with him.
I was like, oh, God.
ari shaffir
Yeah, they couldn't let him go anywhere but the middle of the boat, otherwise it would tip.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
Sharks and shit were circling?
ari shaffir
Yeah, I feel like, come to this side.
Come to this side, Bobby.
We have a chance to eat all those...
joe rogan
Well, you can't be on a boat with those fucking buffets, too, man.
Those buffets are brutal.
ari shaffir
I gained 12 pounds on a week on the Joker's Cruise last year.
joe rogan
I believe it.
Yeah, buffets are rough, man.
Last time I was in Vegas, I ate that at the buffet.
ari shaffir
I mean, they're great.
joe rogan
I ate crepes, all kinds of shit I should never eat.
ari shaffir
I'll go for thirds, sure.
unidentified
Yeah, why not?
ari shaffir
A small portion.
joe rogan
Fried chicken and waffles.
ari shaffir
And it's like your friends go, your friends go, do you want to eat?
I'm like, nah, I just ate like four hours ago.
Like, well, come sit with us.
They're like, okay.
And you're like, I can sell some fries.
joe rogan
I'll go get us some cupcakes.
ari shaffir
Some cupcakes.
No matter how rich you get.
It's free.
You just take whatever.
You don't have to open your wallet.
It's such an easy process.
joe rogan
It's right there.
I can just grab it.
ari shaffir
Dude, the best is these fucking Filipino and like these immigrant type like employees that are like, are you guys done with this?
And they're like, oh yeah, I'm done.
unidentified
They're like, This could feed my whole village what you're throwing away.
ari shaffir
I know.
We're so gross in America.
They have to keep their smile on their face.
joe rogan
When you find out the real statistics of how much people make in certain countries, like I was reading something about how much people, like the average salary of a person lives in Thailand.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's like $1,000 a month.
ari shaffir
Dude, I was on a bus.
unidentified
It's amazing.
ari shaffir
I was on a bus from Indonesia to East Timor crossing the land border, and some guy was talking about how much people make, and I told him, I was like...
Wait, what?
I'm like, cost of living is way higher.
He's like, that's great.
I showed him a $50 bill.
He was like, lost his mind.
How many, how many, I forgot what their currency is.
How many is this worth?
And I told him, he's like, what?
joe rogan
Yeah, I think I'm wrong too, about $1,000 a month.
I think they make less than $1,000 a month.
ari shaffir
Yeah, it's possible.
joe rogan
It might be like one quarter of that.
ari shaffir
A lot of them also don't use currency that much.
They're like, we farm, we trade with our neighbor for milk.
You know what I mean?
Like, we don't need currency.
joe rogan
Dude, we took these lessons on how to grow, how to take rice, plant it, and they take you through the whole steps in Thailand.
They give you the outfits and everything that all the people that farm rice wear.
But you realize before industrialized agriculture, what a process it was to actually get rice.
It is a giant process.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's crazy how much work is involved.
ari shaffir
Yeah, you see them up to their fucking waist in water.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
I saw a dead dog in a rice paddy once face down.
And we're like, oh, that's just...
They're still serving that rice.
joe rogan
I'm sure.
Yeah, they're not going to waste that rice.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Do you think they wash it off at all?
ari shaffir
I don't know.
unidentified
Like...
ari shaffir
Maybe.
They're like, whatever.
You're going to put dead dog on it anyway.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Like, oh, because it's uncooked.
It's so wrong.
joe rogan
Well, the thing about the rice is, like, I thought that at least when you get the rice, you'd just get the rice off the plant and then you could boil it and eat it.
No.
ari shaffir
No?
joe rogan
It's like a husk, and you gotta beat it down and break it open, and then the actual rice is underneath it.
ari shaffir
I'm just finding this about weed.
I thought you'd just pick weed off a plant and smoke it.
They're like, no, you've got to cure it and dry it.
I'm like, cure it?
What?
joe rogan
You know what's the worst?
Female weed is what you want, right?
ari shaffir
Oh, right.
joe rogan
But male and female weed get together, and if the male weed and the female weed get together, it ruins the weed.
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Kind of like real life.
joe rogan
Kind of like real life.
Yeah, men ruin everything.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I didn't know that plants, I don't know jack shit about horticulture or agriculture, but they breed.
There's a male and a female version of these plants.
I was like, what?
Like some guy who was a grower was trying to explain it to me, like how they isolate the female plants.
I go, wait a minute, what?
ari shaffir
Pete knows a lot about it.
joe rogan
Of course he does.
ari shaffir
But like, yeah, it's like, none of this makes sense.
Female plants.
What are you talking about?
I'm talking about plants.
You're wrong.
joe rogan
Yeah, no, they're plants.
They don't have vaginas, you fucking idiot.
ari shaffir
You idiot.
You dumb idiot.
Hey guys, this thing I've never researched, I know way more about than this guy who lives his life in it.
joe rogan
I've never even looked into it.
I was stunned.
I was like, there's a male version, a female version of a fucking plant?
unidentified
What?
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Dude, the more I've researched plants...
Because I had on this guy who's fascinating, man.
You should really...
If you can get him on your podcast...
ari shaffir
That's the guy who...
joe rogan
Paul Stamets?
ari shaffir
Yeah, yeah.
I heard him on NPR. Oh, you should have him on.
Yeah.
joe rogan
I'll hook you guys up.
ari shaffir
Okay.
joe rogan
You would love it.
Especially when he finds out that you invented Shroomfest.
You know, he would love you.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
But when he was explaining to me the system...
Through which plants exchange nutrients and information with fungi.
And that fungi...
Yeah, fungi actually supply these plants with certain nutrients.
And there's like an information network of these mycelium that's underneath the ground.
unidentified
Weird.
ari shaffir
That's how it is.
I've heard about this, how like what trees will do is communicate with each other.
Once she's dying, they'll send nutrients to the other.
I guess fungi is the context.
joe rogan
Oh, dude.
It's fucking bananas.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah, and all underneath the ground.
I mean, underneath the ground is this whole almost like information exchanging network of fungi.
ari shaffir
Wow, and like this one needs help.
joe rogan
Yeah, man.
They know when others need more resources.
They have like a socialist network of allocation of resources.
It's fucking crazy.
And they communicate with each other when they're being eaten.
ari shaffir
What do you mean?
Please help me?
joe rogan
They know.
They know that other ones are being eaten and they'll change their flavor profile.
They actually make their leaves more bitter to avoid predation.
ari shaffir
Because someone's here eating them, fucking put up your defenses?
joe rogan
It's so crazy that you can have the sound of caterpillars chewing leaves.
You can play it like on a recording next to a plant and that plant will change its flavor profile.
Yeah, they become so disgusting that giraffes won't eat them and they'll starve to death.
ari shaffir
Because it's gross.
joe rogan
Because it's disgusting.
ari shaffir
It's like when they're trying to get kids not to eat their nails, they paint them with that stuff that tastes gross.
joe rogan
Oh, did they do that?
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Stupid kids eating your nails.
ari shaffir
Stupid fucking kids.
joe rogan
I've seen a kid eat their boogers and you're like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You eat your boogers?
ari shaffir
All the time, bro.
Still?
What are you going to do with them?
What are you going to do with them?
joe rogan
You fucking throw them away.
ari shaffir
Throw them away into the trash receptacle for boogers?
joe rogan
Oh, God.
You put them in a tissue and you'd be gone with them.
You don't eat your boogers, you savage.
ari shaffir
Then you'll run out of boogers.
joe rogan
Well, okay.
You do what you got to do.
ari shaffir
I have one of these JRE shirts.
Oh, I have this one, actually, in my house.
joe rogan
Oh, nice.
I got one of your crazy mushroom shirts.
Which tour was that from?
ari shaffir
Do Mushrooms tour?
I think it was two specials ago, not the last one.
joe rogan
There was that one, and then there was the other one with you or your tongue open with an acid tab.
ari shaffir
Oh, that's the 2012. That's the 2012 shirt.
joe rogan
Oh, 2012 shirt.
ari shaffir
Yeah, that's the coolest shirt.
I might not bring those back since I fucked up and didn't do a shirt this year.
joe rogan
You should bring that back just to sell it.
You should just sell it, period.
ari shaffir
It's a cool one.
I like the idea of going like, because Iron Maiden had that with like a shirt per year.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
You can show it off at the next Iron Maiden concert, but you had to be at that concert, otherwise you're fucked.
joe rogan
That's the one.
That's my favorite one.
I got that one.
And the hot black chick on top.
ari shaffir
Ted Park did that.
That's the guy that did the Korean zombie shirt.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
joe rogan
Damn, he's good.
ari shaffir
He is good.
joe rogan
That's a great fucking shirt, man.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
And your eyes look sufficiently whacked out.
ari shaffir
Yeah, people are like, why is Marc Maron in your shirt?
joe rogan
No, that is not Marc Maron.
ari shaffir
Or the guy from Grateful Dead.
joe rogan
Imagine if Marc Maron went the other way.
ari shaffir
Super drugged out?
joe rogan
Yeah.
He gave up on sobriety and just went all mushrooms.
He's totally the other way.
ari shaffir
How's sobriety going, Marc?
Oh, good you should ask.
joe rogan
I bailed.
ari shaffir
Put this on your tongue and then let's talk.
joe rogan
After 25 years, I realized, what the fuck am I doing avoiding all the best parts of life?
Yeah, that's teaching me this sober October thing.
It's teaching me a lot.
ari shaffir
Dude, my bartender last night went to O'Neal's wedding, right?
O'Neal's wedding.
And I was like, do you have any?
It's at a brewery.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
And I was like, do you have any non-alcoholic beer?
Like I was saying, it helps us socially.
Because socially, it's like, fuck, everyone's drinking.
And he goes, yeah, yeah.
He goes, Sober October?
I'm like, yeah.
But he didn't know it.
A lot of people know this contest, but he was just like, I'm doing it too.
joe rogan
Did you know about it before last year?
ari shaffir
No, because we were going to do it earlier or later, but then Bert had an Australia thing.
I'm like, there's no way you're doing it in Australia.
You can't be sober in Australia, and you can't be sober for the Joker's Cruise.
And that was November, I think first week of November or something.
And so we just settled on October.
joe rogan
So we just stumbled upon it.
And other people have been doing it for years, apparently.
How long has Sober October been going on for?
A long time?
Yeah.
Jamie says a long time off mic because he doesn't realize we're podcasting.
unidentified
For sure a while.
ari shaffir
Oh, who's that?
joe rogan
What's that sound in the distance?
Yeah, it's apparently been going on for a long time.
We just completely lucked into it.
ari shaffir
Dude, I was at the Jets game.
Somebody sent me a beer, and I was like, what?
And then I turned, and I was like, I can't, and the guy's like, I was trying to catch you!
So I'm doing it from the stands.
joe rogan
Diaz thinks Bird's drinking.
ari shaffir
He does?
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Really?
joe rogan
He goes, I think Bird's drinking.
He goes, I saw him the other day, he looked guilty.
He knocked his head down, wasn't looking at me.
I think he's drinking Joe Rogan.
ari shaffir
Oh, I've wanted to so bad.
I actually needed a break this time.
joe rogan
I went to sushi.
I told you I went to sushi.
And when was...
unidentified
I was like, oh yeah, get a nice cold asahi.
joe rogan
That'll be...
Fuck!
It's October.
God damn it.
ari shaffir
It's like, it makes you realize now, it's not just casually drinking, that there's moments where booze really does go well with an experience.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
Steak and a nice glass of red wine.
Oh, yes.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
November 5th, son.
We're going off.
ari shaffir
November 5th, we're going off.
joe rogan
November 5th.
That's when we're going to do the recap podcast.
We're all going off.
So, Ari and I have been battling for first place recently until today when Tom Segura snuck in to second place with his 400 plus points today.
ari shaffir
That really puts a pressure on me.
It really has hurt me to not...
I finally joined a gym because of this.
joe rogan
I have to.
ari shaffir
Blink.
It's a small gym, but it's like right near my...
It's a seven-minute walk from my apartment.
So I can pass it on the way home from the cellar.
I can get a workout in right then if I want.
joe rogan
That's good.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's 24 hours?
ari shaffir
24 hours weekdays.
joe rogan
New York has a crazy fucking life.
There's a crazy life in New York.
Everything's 24...
There's so many 24-hour things.
Restaurants, pool halls...
ari shaffir
Yeah, I passed by that place we went a bunch of times.
joe rogan
Which place?
ari shaffir
All the time, actually.
unidentified
Amsterdam?
ari shaffir
Amsterdam.
It's always there.
joe rogan
That place is only up until 2. Oh, really?
Yeah, but it's still pretty late.
There's a few real sketchy joints that are 24 hours, but if you go in there, you'll get a bunch of creeps that want to gamble with you, and they look like they're cracked out.
ari shaffir
Oh, fellas, I'm good.
I'm just trying to hit some balls.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Trying to take my mind off things.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're cracked out.
I'm trying to hustle.
There's very little of that anymore, though.
ari shaffir
New York is cleaned up for the worse or the better.
joe rogan
I mean hustling.
Pool hustling.
It's just kind of died.
ari shaffir
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, so like pools dead.
ari shaffir
They have like leagues now.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
You know?
joe rogan
Yeah, it's like, well, I mean, that's good.
I'm just happy if people play.
It's a fun thing to play, but it's dead in terms of like the way it used to be in Manhattan where there was just gambling everywhere.
You know, at the turn of the century, there was a thousand pool halls in New York City?
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
Yeah.
1900s.
The early 1900s.
ari shaffir
Did you ever see the pool tables, like, outside in Thailand when you were there?
joe rogan
No, I didn't, but here in the Philippines, it's crazy.
ari shaffir
Yeah, and it's just like, there'll be some, like, an awning or something.
Oh, I did see one.
Kind of like people who go tailgating, those kind of tents, and it'll be under that, and you can just pull over and be like, and they'll be like, white guy, for sure, let's play.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
No gambling, just having a fun time.
joe rogan
Really?
ari shaffir
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
I saw one in Chiang Mai in that downtown marketplace area.
I saw one.
ari shaffir
How fun was that fucking Thai kickboxing?
joe rogan
Pretty fun.
ari shaffir
It's so cool.
And they played the instrument, right?
Dude, how fucking fun is that?
joe rogan
Yeah, it's pretty wild.
I've been to those out here where they play it, but Americans get real bored with the Y crew, the dance they do.
ari shaffir
Yeah, they do a dance for their own dojo.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, they do.
Everybody does it.
And there's a real logic behind it.
The logic is that you warm up and that you relax yourself.
ari shaffir
Okay.
I can see that.
joe rogan
Because you're kind of performing in front of all these people.
ari shaffir
Going through these dance moves.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And also people are staring at you.
So it kind of wears off your nerves.
There's a reality to that.
It's actually really wise.
ari shaffir
Wow.
joe rogan
And you limber up your body, too.
A lot of the stuff they're doing is they're getting down on one knee like a lunge, and they're bouncing a little bit.
So they're limbering up their body, and then on top of that, they're actually doing this dance in front of all these people, and it calms the nerves a little bit.
ari shaffir
Wow.
Yeah, John Fitch will always talk about that, about the idea of people watching you is actually a big thing, and the UFC is like a bigger people watching you than anywhere else.
It's a tougher...
joe rogan
People watching you is fucking...
I mean, people watching you shoot a free throw, you know?
Go ahead, dude!
unidentified
Go ahead, dude!
joe rogan
A bunch of people watching, oh, fuck, here I go, here I go.
That's real, even if it's just like five of your friends.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
Yeah.
Pressure.
joe rogan
Pressure's fucking real, man.
I mean, that's what everybody's most terrified about what we do.
Public speaking.
ari shaffir
Mm-hmm.
I had somebody, we were giving a talk on Shakespeare or something.
It was a group project.
We each had to write one paragraph.
We wrote three paragraphs.
Each one of us read one.
So, I think I read mine.
Just reading it off the paper, I was paying attention.
This next lady's like, and then later Shakespeare had the time we have...
unidentified
Panic attack!
ari shaffir
And I was just looking at her like, what the fuck?
And the teacher's like, okay, okay, okay, it's alright.
Let's let somebody else read.
And I was like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
It's crazy.
It's way before I was a stand-up, but like, it doesn't make any sense.
joe rogan
I used to panic when I would talk to bank tellers.
ari shaffir
What?
joe rogan
Yeah, I used to go to a bank teller.
I'd get super nervous right before I'd have to talk to a bank teller.
ari shaffir
Why?
joe rogan
I don't know.
ari shaffir
Yeah, there's no reason for it.
joe rogan
Well, when I was a kid, I really felt like a loser.
I really did.
I had, like, serious low self-esteem issues up until, like, high school year, up until martial arts.
And then once I started doing martial arts and getting really good at it and then teaching, it kind of calmed me down.
ari shaffir
Experience.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And then it kind of like was a, believe it or not, almost like a natural path to stand up.
But I remember before that being very awkward talking to people, like very nervous talking to people I didn't know.
You know, I just didn't feel like...
ari shaffir
I still get that, where I'm like, I don't know how to talk.
You're a stranger.
I don't know how to talk to you.
joe rogan
Yeah, I know, right?
Especially if it's an odd thing.
ari shaffir
It's worse when they know you, too, and they ask you questions that are so broad.
What's Joey Diaz like?
Oh, boy.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's hard.
That's hard.
Hey, man, I've got to ask you a question.
What should I do for a living?
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
What?
joe rogan
Trying to get my shit together.
unidentified
Oh, okay.
ari shaffir
Fire truck operator.
joe rogan
Yeah, you should make ladders.
ari shaffir
Yeah, like, wow, I don't know anything about you.
What are you talking about?
joe rogan
Yo, you used to be a carpenter, but I don't want to do it anymore.
Okay.
ari shaffir
I'm thinking of doing stand-up.
Should I do it?
joe rogan
Definitely.
unidentified
I don't know.
joe rogan
Go for it.
ari shaffir
Whatever you want.
joe rogan
I say go for it.
ari shaffir
Sure, I guess.
joe rogan
If you want to do it, do it.
ari shaffir
Yeah, but everything is like that.
joe rogan
But if it doesn't work out, don't get mad at me.
ari shaffir
Don't get mad at me.
No, I'm not being responsible for this.
joe rogan
Hey, bro, you told me to become a fighter.
Now I'm all fucked up.
You told me to do jiu-jitsu.
I got a broken arm now, bro.
Who's going to fix this?
unidentified
Huh?
Huh?
ari shaffir
You, bro.
That's the answer.
joe rogan
You, motherfucker.
Fix that shit.
Go get it fixed.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
I was talking to a friend of mine who, I don't want to name his name because he's got a pretty significant injury, and we were talking about his injury, and it's fucking bad, man.
You know, he needs surgery, and his bone is changing shape because of arthritis that's building up in his joint.
I'm like, oh, fuck, and he's a young guy.
It just makes you realize the fucking punishment these guys are putting on their body that's totally below the surface.
People don't know.
It's behind the curtain.
No one knows about it.
And they've got these devastating injuries that they're fighting off and then competing against world-class fighters.
ari shaffir
With injuries.
joe rogan
With these torn ligaments and fucked up joints.
ari shaffir
It's like what you're talking about with Tony Ferguson.
He didn't look comfortable on that leg.
joe rogan
No.
ari shaffir
And he's like, yeah, he wasn't.
joe rogan
You know what?
He went six months from catastrophic knee injury where the bone literally separated from the ligament.
The ligament tore off the bone.
You ever see the picture of his surgery?
Jamie, pull that shit up.
Pull that shit up, Jamie.
It's a crazy surgery because it's...
I'm not exaggerating.
It might be a 12-inch scar.
It's enormous.
It's like that big.
And it's all jagged and shit.
And it's just...
He ripped it apart.
They had to open him up like a trout.
ari shaffir
How did he fight again in 12 months?
joe rogan
Not even.
Six months.
ari shaffir
Six months, I mean, yeah.
joe rogan
Insane.
ari shaffir
I don't understand how that guy doesn't clearly get the title shot.
joe rogan
He does.
ari shaffir
He does.
joe rogan
We should talk about that.
Look at that.
ari shaffir
Wow.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
And the thing is, that was just from a trip.
He just tripped.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Fucking bananas.
ari shaffir
Ew.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
What's the second image, Jeremy?
unidentified
It's a little different.
joe rogan
Oh, the other side.
ari shaffir
Way worse angle.
joe rogan
Yeah, the extent of that injury, the fact that he came back in six months.
And what's really interesting is he came back in six months.
He didn't spar, apparently.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
I need to talk to him about this, and I'm going to have him on with Eddie.
He didn't spar.
He just prepared.
ari shaffir
Is he trained with Eddie?
joe rogan
Yeah, he's one of Eddie's black belts.
ari shaffir
Wow, really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
unidentified
Damn.
joe rogan
I believe he's a black belt.
He should be.
I think he is.
ari shaffir
I think he's good at fighting.
joe rogan
I'm pretty sure Eddie gave him his black belt after he submitted Kevin Lee.
He did, yeah.
Yeah, he's a 10th planet guy.
ari shaffir
Wow, that's pretty cool.
joe rogan
It's pretty badass.
He's got a nasty Darce joke.
ari shaffir
Yeah, he should clearly get the title shot.
It doesn't make sense to me.
When he came back, he shouldn't have even gotten stripped, in hindsight.
joe rogan
I agree 100%.
ari shaffir
And then it's like, you have Khabib, who's the title holder, fair and square, I guess, but you never beat the champion.
joe rogan
Well, he's more of a legit title holder, in my opinion, than Khabib was before Conor.
Because he beat Al Iaquinta, who wasn't even supposed to be fighting for the title, whereas Kevin Lee is a way more like...
ari shaffir
Who did Ferguson get it from?
joe rogan
Well, Ferguson fought Kevin Lee for the interim title.
ari shaffir
Oh, because Conor left it.
joe rogan
But Kevin Lee prepared for Tony Ferguson.
They met.
They fought for the interim title.
And Kevin Lee is like a top contender.
He's a fucking tough guy, obviously.
He went five rounds with Khabib.
Conor couldn't go five rounds with Khabib.
And he put up resistance.
It was a good fight.
ari shaffir
But he would never bring him a title shot.
joe rogan
No.
Maybe in the future.
ari shaffir
He was never in that discussion.
joe rogan
Well, he's fighting Kevin Lee.
If he beats Kevin Lee, that's the next fight for Al Iaquinta.
Look, Al Iaquinta is fucking legit.
He's very legit.
He's underrated.
Like, really underrated, in my opinion.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
I think the way he got up from Khabib taking him down, nobody's been able to do that.
He got up.
Like, pretty consistently.
Took very little damage on the ground.
Khabib was never able to pound him out the way he pounded out Conor.
If you go back and watch Al Iaquinta vs.
Khabib and Conor vs.
Khabib, you realize how fucking good Al Iaquinta is.
ari shaffir
Also, Conor does nothing on the ground.
joe rogan
Well, he didn't in that fight.
ari shaffir
Really, when Mendez took him down on two weeks' notice, and it was like, if he didn't gas, Mendez would have beat him.
joe rogan
It's true.
ari shaffir
It's like, he can't fight on the ground.
joe rogan
Well, he did very well on the ground against Max Holloway.
Which was early in Max's career.
Max was only like 21 at the time.
But I agree with you.
That's definitely his weakest part of his game and the strongest part of Khabib's game.
My point was just that Al Iaquinta did not get beat up on the ground like that.
Did not get close to being stopped.
Went full five rounds.
And Khabib clearly won the fight.
But Al Iaquinta provided resistance and provided more of a struggle than Conor did.
ari shaffir
I honestly think some of the reason that's holding Ally Quinta back from the fans, from them thinking of him as like a top, is his name.
It's just not.
He has a name of someone who'd be like in the early round of Mike Tyson's Punch-Out.
joe rogan
You say that, but if he started starching world champions, nobody would give a fuck about his name.
unidentified
True.
joe rogan
Like if he went out there and destroyed Khabib and fucking head kicked him into another dimension.
ari shaffir
True.
Good point.
Good point.
joe rogan
Nobody would give a fuck about his name.
ari shaffir
Yeah, when they talk about how hot celebrities are, you wouldn't say that if he wasn't in nine movies.
joe rogan
Like who?
ari shaffir
I don't know.
joe rogan
Like Ryan Reynolds?
unidentified
He's pretty hot.
ari shaffir
Yeah, things like that.
unidentified
Really?
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
The moon guy?
He's in the moon movie?
ari shaffir
Or maybe like Dane.
Even like Dane.
People are like, he's good looking.
joe rogan
Dane Cook?
ari shaffir
Yeah, but even back then it was like, no, he's fine.
joe rogan
He's kind of cute for a comedian.
ari shaffir
He's fine, but for a comedian.
But for a super successful, so you're like, oh, this guy's hot.
It's like, not really.
joe rogan
Not like...
ari shaffir
Jeremy Renner.
I remember him on commercial days.
Oh, yeah, he's not that odd.
And it was like, good looking guy, but now people are like, so gorgeous.
And it's like, that success is on that.
joe rogan
That's true, yeah.
For gals.
Isn't that funny that it doesn't work like that with girls at all?
unidentified
Uh-uh.
joe rogan
At all.
As a matter of fact, it makes him a little gross.
ari shaffir
What?
If they're more successful?
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Like, nah.
joe rogan
Super successful and not that good looking?
Like, ew.
ari shaffir
It works the opposite if they're gross looking and then they get successful.
Like Joan Jett.
Like, I'll fuck Joan Jett now.
joe rogan
Oh, Joan Jett's hot, man.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Joan Jett's always been hot.
ari shaffir
PJ Harvey.
These women, without their fame, are like, get away from me!
Really?
We're talking!
joe rogan
Joan Jett?
ari shaffir
Yeah, man.
joe rogan
I love rock and roll?
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Put another dime in the jukebox, baby?
ari shaffir
Yeah, but get out of here.
Go put a dime in the jukebox.
You're disgusting.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
I disagree strongly.
ari shaffir
I'm saying it's only because of her fame.
She's great.
joe rogan
No, I always thought she was hot.
ari shaffir
I know you did.
joe rogan
But when I was in high school...
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, she was hot when I was in high school.
Like, Joan Jett's probably 155 years old.
ari shaffir
Yeah, she's playing, like, Dewey Beach next week.
joe rogan
She's at the Canyon Club.
What does she look like now?
She looks like, uh, okay.
ari shaffir
Well, that's a little older.
joe rogan
That's an issue.
That's, uh, Sharon Osbourne.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
I think you got the wrong photo.
ari shaffir
No, that's her.
joe rogan
I know, I'm joking.
ari shaffir
I was like, wait, what?
unidentified
At first I thought you said you looked like her, then I'm like, no, no, that is her.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, you know, fucking Father Time fucks us all in the ass.
ari shaffir
God damn it, Father Time.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Anyway, the reason I wanted to come on here...
Talk MMA. Yeah, it's because I've had this unique experience that a lot of people, like I mention it sometimes, and they're like, oh, you've been to a UFC? I'm like, dude, I've been to like 50 of them.
And they're like, how?
unidentified
How?
ari shaffir
And it was just this cool thing where I guess in your contract early on, you got this deal.
You get a free companion flight and a free companion hotel.
And then you started inviting us.
And then we started doing comedy shows on Friday night after the weigh-ins.
And then it became like a thing.
And so these weekends, we do one big show and then go to the weigh-ins and have...
And have the actual UFC the next day.
It was just this fun weekend full of doing something, stand-up, and also having fun.
joe rogan
Well, how about the classic example of you and Duncan kissing when Stevie Dalloway was fighting?
ari shaffir
Sure, that's a good way to start.
unidentified
Why not?
joe rogan
It was Stevie Dalloway, right?
ari shaffir
It was boring.
It was a fucking wrestling fight.
It was boring.
joe rogan
And you guys waited until the camera came out.
Here it is.
ari shaffir
Yeah, he was on the ground.
joe rogan
And then he turned...
ari shaffir
I couldn't stop that.
Look at Frosty.
Look at Frosty.
I wish I had held it longer.
joe rogan
Oh, it's Nate Marquardt.
That's who it is.
Nate Marquardt was fighting somebody.
ari shaffir
Yeah, we were given a Luminati sign.
Duncan doesn't sit up there normally.
Frosty was always really cool, letting us sit up there and make us feel welcome, you know?
joe rogan
Frosty's a great guy.
ari shaffir
Yeah, great guy.
Love him.
And then Duncan was like, let's give Illuminati signs because he's up there.
He doesn't really care about the sport.
So he's just looking at the monitors, seeing the fucking technique of all of it, of what goes into the fucking filming of it.
Yeah, we gave a joint Illuminati triangle.
unidentified
A joint Illuminati triangle?
That's so ridiculous.
ari shaffir
Right behind Joe Silva.
joe rogan
People, they're really, really dumb people.
They think you guys are really in the Illuminati.
ari shaffir
Doug has that.
People have been saying, like, you're in the Illuminati.
I know you are.
You and Rogan.
joe rogan
I get people all the time saying I'm in the CIA. That's great.
ari shaffir
That's great.
What a terrible operative you are if they uncovered it.
joe rogan
Could you imagine if that was the secret to my career?
All the other stuff was just so I could portray a normal person.
All the drug use, history of martial arts, getting in with the UFC, becoming the commentator.
ari shaffir
It's so public, though, to be a CIA agent.
joe rogan
It's so I can go deep, deep undercover and nobody would buy it.
ari shaffir
Yeah, it's like, wouldn't you just be better to be a garbage man?
Like, nah, no one would suspect this.
joe rogan
There's people that just want to believe the dumbest fucking conspiracies, period.
Like, the dumbest conspiracies.
Like, there was some fucking guy, one of those Infowars guy, that was promoting something recently that Hillary was 50% reptilian.
ari shaffir
50%?
I've heard 30% I can believe, but 50?
unidentified
Full half?
joe rogan
Yeah, see if you can find that.
Someone said she has 50% reptilian blood.
Well, you know, that was a David Icke thing for the longest time.
ari shaffir
The reptilians.
joe rogan
Yeah, remember he was saying, he won't talk about that now apparently.
unidentified
Why?
joe rogan
He gets angry when people bring up reptilians, because it's embarrassing.
ari shaffir
Because he was like, I shouldn't have believed that.
joe rogan
Yeah, but it's a fucking foolhard...
And then he became way more mainstream, and then the internet came along.
And then people were like, hey, you remember that fucking reptilian thing?
That's the craziest shit of all time.
ari shaffir
He needs to have an answer for that.
Either, oh yeah, I was just making that up for whatever, when I was back in the early days of the internet.
joe rogan
Or I believed it.
ari shaffir
Right, or like, I believed it, now I realize how crazy that was.
joe rogan
Yeah, you can say that.
ari shaffir
But not like, don't bring it up.
joe rogan
Yeah.
There's, I mean, look, there's fucking, there's real conspiracy.
You know that story about that journalist that was killed by the Saudis this week?
ari shaffir
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
That's real.
ari shaffir
That he was killed?
joe rogan
Yeah, they finally admitted that they killed him.
ari shaffir
The Saudis did?
joe rogan
Yeah.
They said that they killed him in a fight.
Which is, if you see the guy, you're like, this guy's not fighting anyway.
And some of the Crown Prince's top people, top security people, have been released, apparently.
Probably gave him a fucking hundred million dollars and said go chill on a beach somewhere.
unidentified
Wow.
ari shaffir
Somebody said one of them, too, was like, died in a car accident this week.
joe rogan
They kill a lot of journalists, man.
ari shaffir
No, not a journalist.
joe rogan
Infowars Real News Twitter banned after MSM outcry over Hillary's satire.
So it was a satire piece?
jamie vernon
Yeah, I just found the piece and I was like, there's no way that this is real.
joe rogan
They thought it was satire?
I don't know who did.
ari shaffir
Can I just tell you about...
joe rogan
Hillary Clinton releases DNA tests proving she's only half lizard person.
ari shaffir
Only half lizard.
She released it to clear her name?
joe rogan
Did you know Elizabeth Warren released that thing that says she's got actual Native American blood, but it's literally like one 100,000 fucking million trillionth?
ari shaffir
Wow.
joe rogan
She has, like, the smallest amount of...
ari shaffir
Did you see what Ben Shapiro tweeted about that?
joe rogan
What'd he say?
ari shaffir
Oh, fuck.
Jamie, try to find it.
unidentified
Your great-great-great-great-great-grandfather.
ari shaffir
Yeah, but...
And then it was something else, but...
I forget what it was.
joe rogan
Let's see if we can find it.
But I think I'm 1.6% African.
I did one of those DNA tests.
ari shaffir
Are you really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And I'm done.
joe rogan
See you later.
ari shaffir
I have standards.
unidentified
Goodbye.
joe rogan
I think I'm at least 10 times more African than she is Native American.
ari shaffir
Wow.
joe rogan
That's how ridiculous it is.
I might be wrong with these numbers, because Jamie and I were trying to work it out, and we were both stupid as fuck.
ari shaffir
Why did she release that as, like, C, instead of going, like, oh, I guess I'm not.
joe rogan
Because she was lying...
ari shaffir
And she was also lied to.
Probably her family was like, you know, we have Native in us.
I'm like, oh, cool.
joe rogan
That does happen.
Like Jamie.
Jamie thought he had a gang of Native Americans in them.
He does his chest.
Supposedly do.
jamie vernon
It's hard to prove is from what I'm trying to find out.
unidentified
Right.
ari shaffir
I can't wait to do one of those tests.
I just have it to see if I'm over 97% Jewish or like under 97% Jewish.
joe rogan
Mine is almost exactly what I thought.
It's mostly Italian.
It's some other European, like Irish and English.
ari shaffir
You've got to be part monkey.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's some Neanderthal.
I found Neanderthal in there.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
57% more than the average person.
ari shaffir
You see the South Park on that?
joe rogan
No.
ari shaffir
Where he was trying to prove that he was a minority so he could claim victimhood.
And in order to take the test, he swabbed your mouth.
So first he found a Native American and just started making out with him and then swabbed.
And then they were like, uh, it came up kind of weird.
You're like 98% Native American.
So we're going to need a blood test.
unidentified
He goes, oh, fuck.
ari shaffir
So it proves he wasn't any minority, except he was like 2% Neanderthal.
And he goes, you wiped my people out!
You raped my people!
joe rogan
Oh, that's great.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
Stan Marsh is a great character.
Yeah, so anyway, we're doing that.
We keep trying to get on the film.
joe rogan
Illuminati signs.
ari shaffir
Yeah, he can see the monitor.
You know, the monitor on your table?
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And so he goes, you know, next time we have to kiss.
And I was like, fuck.
unidentified
Fuck.
ari shaffir
Because as a person, I'm like, I don't want to do that.
But as a comic, I'm like, oh, I have no choice.
Obviously, that's the right move.
joe rogan
You have to.
ari shaffir
So it's like, goddammit.
So I'm like, alright, I'm watching this fight.
Tell me when it's time.
And then a minute later he goes, now!
joe rogan
Did you guys touch tongues?
ari shaffir
I mean, yeah, we wrapped it around a little.
unidentified
Woo!
ari shaffir
Gotta enjoy it.
No, I don't think we touched tongues.
Maybe we did.
joe rogan
I think you might have.
ari shaffir
You might have, actually.
joe rogan
I think it was a real kiss.
ari shaffir
And then Frost, he's just watching the monitor.
He's not even looking at us.
He's like, I wish I had held it a little longer.
I thought it was over.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's intense.
You grabbed his face, too.
Like, you really loved him.
ari shaffir
Oh, yeah, I did, huh?
joe rogan
You put his hand on your shoulder in sort of like a submissive stance.
And look at Joe Silva.
Hmm, this fight is interesting.
Joe Silva's got his hands crossed, totally oblivious to the homosexual activity going on behind him.
ari shaffir
This is back when the fighters could actually make a living in a sponsorship.
joe rogan
Oh yeah, look at his shorts, covered in sponsors.
Yeah, that's a big selling point for Bellator for a lot of fighters.
ari shaffir
Come here and actually make some cash.
joe rogan
Well, there's a lot more money to be made if you can get sponsors.
I mean, Schaub was making more than $150,000 a fight just from sponsors.
ari shaffir
Yeah, and that flag behind you afterwards?
joe rogan
The flag behind you, the shorts.
ari shaffir
They quickly rushed to put the t-shirt on.
joe rogan
Yeah, and t-shirts around the week of the fight.
Like, you know, people would pay you to wear it for all your training footage.
ari shaffir
Oh, really?
I remember when the sponsor, I remember when they did away with it.
The fighters going, hey, come to fucking, you know, whatever nightclub, come to Shush.
We're going to be partying.
I don't want to stop fucking nightclubs I have in Vegas.
joe rogan
Yeah, but after parties at Shush.
Someone's going to open up a church now.
ari shaffir
And then they're like, hey, guys, you can't do that anymore.
It's gross.
I think that came out of the time, by the way.
I remember one of the earlier ones in Sacramento.
See, I got to see, luckily, not from when you were in the UFC, but from this middle range to where it is now, of like...
All the fighters would stay at the same hotel.
And we'd have the after party there.
We'd all hang out.
Four or five fans would show up who knew about it.
But generally, it was just a way you can drink with Keith Jardine and all these guys.
joe rogan
Those were great times.
ari shaffir
Great times!
I remember you eventually had to make the decision, like, I can't be here anymore.
It's overrun with fans.
But for a while, it was awesome.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Two things changed.
One, cell phones with cameras.
ari shaffir
Pictures all the time.
joe rogan
That changed.
Because it used to be people just wanted to say hi.
Then it was everyone had a phone out and they all wanted to take a photo and they would wait for you in the elevator bank.
So you would get out of the elevator and there would be 50 people there.
And you couldn't go anywhere.
ari shaffir
You were always so late to the event.
You're like, I can't.
I have to go.
I should have left 20 minutes ago.
joe rogan
What about the fans?
I'm like, I'm doing my job.
ari shaffir
I have to go do my job.
Yeah, I'm about to do it for a million fans, so you four don't really matter as much.
joe rogan
I'm running to the fucking weigh-ins.
These guys are starving to death right now, and I gotta get there.
I can't be late for the weigh-ins.
It's televised.
ari shaffir
No.
joe rogan
People would get so angry if you didn't take their photo.
ari shaffir
But it was such good times.
I remember in Sacramento, there was a hotel bar that we were all at, and it was like, this is fucking awesome.
Hanging out casually, you happen to get into conversations with fighters, trainers, Della Grotti, people like that.
You just talk.
joe rogan
Yeah, it completely changed.
It completely changed as a, well, 2005 is really when it changed, because that's when The Ultimate Fighter came on.
And when The Ultimate Fighter took off, and the sport became, it just became much bigger.
Like almost within a year it was like significantly bigger and then it kept going and then 2000 like what was the iPhone 2007?
Six ish.
That's when shit really changed with the cameras on the phones man.
From then to eight, nine and then I was like I can't do this anymore I have to because we would do shows.
ari shaffir
I remember you were like I gotta go to Dana's Hotel.
joe rogan
Well, there was no way.
It was just too crazy.
It's like you would get stalked coming into the hotel.
You get stalked leaving the hotel.
People would find your door and knock on your door.
ari shaffir
But it wasn't like that, and it was so fun.
joe rogan
It was so fun.
Yeah, we were there in the fucking salad days.
ari shaffir
I remember you doing the weigh-ins once in, I believe, Fort Lauderdale.
And we were walking to there with the Tap Out guys.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
I remember Scrape telling me, Scrape en masse, saying, like, we found it.
This was before the iPhone, actually, because he was like, we found a way to crank text people.
What you do is you put in 10 different contacts of a text, all the same number, and they say, hey, how you doing?
And then they would just get 10 individual texts.
And so you just keep doing that.
joe rogan
Oh, that's so fucking stupid.
ari shaffir
Yeah, they would take pictures of people.
But I remember you doing the weigh-ins and going...
And back then, it was only the camp showed up.
joe rogan
Yeah, it was small.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
It was just in a hall.
Not a hallway, but like a banquet hall.
And you go, Ari, I almost brought you up.
I was like, oh, I wish you would have, dude.
unidentified
That's right, I was going to bring you on stage.
ari shaffir
I was like, I would have for sure gotten naked.
unidentified
Ari Shaffir!
ari shaffir
And nobody would have stopped that.
joe rogan
No.
ari shaffir
They would have been like, ha, ha, ha.
I would have gone up there, weighed in.
joe rogan
Well, imagine if the UFC was going to hire me today.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then they like watched one episode of the podcast of us getting fucked up.
ari shaffir
We need you to clean it up a little bit.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Yeah, William Morris wouldn't allow that as a hire.
joe rogan
If WME, like, yeah, I mean, they'd be like, you gotta be fucking kidding me.
There's no way.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
unidentified
Uh-uh.
ari shaffir
Let's get Jeff Probst.
unidentified
Yes!
ari shaffir
Get that guy.
joe rogan
Get that guy.
He knows a lot about MMA. Does he really?
unidentified
No.
ari shaffir
No, okay.
And that's not Sharon Osbourne.
Yeah, but it was such fucking Wild West crazy shit.
And I was just getting it.
I just started training with Eddie.
You started paying for that.
And so I'd see the billboard at the Hyatt, now the Andas, looking over the comedy store.
I remember seeing Liddell Couture 2, I think.
And people were like, oh, it's a fight.
I'm like, oh, what does that mean?
Who are those guys?
And having Tate and you go like, yeah, they actually fought an epic fight or two.
It might have been three.
I'm not sure.
And now they're going to have a rematch.
I'm like, oh, cool.
I didn't really know anything about it.
I remember rolling at the old bomb squad and having people talk about it.
I'm like, what is this thing that you guys are talking about?
I remember Hoist Gracie, but I don't know who any of these people are.
I don't know the terms you're using.
Getting them on the ground.
It's all a question of matchups.
Matchups makes fun.
I'm like, oh.
I'm just trying to get a half guard in.
Trying to figure out how to do that.
My rear naked choke defense got good fast.
joe rogan
Dude, you got pretty good.
You got pretty good.
I remember you tapping people.
I remember looking over and watching you tap some guys going, damn!
ari shaffir
It was fun.
joe rogan
Fucking jujitsu.
If bodies didn't break from doing jujitsu, it'd be the most fun thing to do.
If bodies were way more durable, like necks didn't give out, like Eddie's had three surgeries inside of the last year.
He had knee surgery, he had his back disc replaced in his back, and then he just had shoulder surgery.
It's like your body just gets blown apart.
ari shaffir
When I tore my meniscus, I had a surgery on it.
They didn't know what it was for the longest time.
Your buddy, Dr. Steve?
joe rogan
Steve Graham?
ari shaffir
Yeah, he was like, oh, MRIs get false negatives 20% of the time.
Just tell them to scope it.
Because I was like, it's showing nothing.
It's probably that.
Just tell them to scope it.
They went in there and found it and did it right then.
But when they did it, they were like...
What do you do?
What might hurt it?
And I was showing jiu-jitsu high guard just like on the table myself.
And he was like, and so I'm pulling my leg back like that, you know?
And he's like, what?
Why?
Don't do that!
And I was like, oh, that's, I have to do, that's part of it.
Like, why would you bend your leg like that?
I'm like, that's every day, man.
joe rogan
That's silly.
They don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
That's just a flexibility issue.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
That never bothered my knees.
ari shaffir
Really?
joe rogan
No, no, if you're flexible, that's not a problem at all.
ari shaffir
I think it was kettlebells more than jits that did it to me.
joe rogan
Yeah, because I remember we were doing some stuff, like you were doing cleans and presses, and I was like, ooh, for a guy who doesn't ever lift weights, this is a pretty explosive movement.
ari shaffir
Yeah, my technique's not perfect, so then it's really opening it up to more damage.
joe rogan
And it's also, when you get sore from doing something like that, you really should take a long time off.
The real hard thing for people that are just starting to lift weights is the building process.
One of the things that we had talked about with this fitness challenge was lifting the most amount of weights and improving your max weight over the month.
I was like, okay guys, let's slow down here.
I know Tom lifts weights a little.
You don't lift weights at all.
ari shaffir
No, I do not.
joe rogan
I lift weights a lot.
And I'm like, listen, if I'm going to improve my max in things, we're running the risk of catastrophic injury.
Like, we're running the risk of tearing ligaments.
ari shaffir
It'd also be bad for the contest to have somebody have to drop out.
joe rogan
Yeah.
It could fuck you up pretty bad.
I don't lift max weight.
I lift, like, considerably less than my max weight, and I don't go to failure.
I do this...
ari shaffir
You don't go to failure.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
No.
I operate under these principles of this guy, Pavel Tatsulin, who came up with this company called Strong First.
And what the idea is, is you do less...
Like, say if I can do a 70-pound kettlebell and I can press it over my head 15 times.
I don't do 15 times.
I do six.
Five or six.
And then I put it down and I leave it alone for like 10 minutes.
And then I come back and I do another five.
And I do low repetitions...
And unless I'm doing conditioning, in which case I'll use a much lighter weight and I'll do way higher reps.
ari shaffir
That's what Cam was saying.
joe rogan
Yeah, but Cam does different shit.
ari shaffir
He does like 40 reps of 5. He does a bunch of ridiculous shit.
joe rogan
He's a fucking maniac.
You can't pay attention to him because he doesn't make sense.
ari shaffir
He's outside the norm.
joe rogan
He doesn't make any sense.
He doesn't get injured.
He fucking runs marathons every day, and he'll do hundreds of repetitions.
He'll do sets of 25, like four sets of 25. That's marathons every day.
Yeah, when he's preparing for one of those big races, he runs a marathon a day.
unidentified
Jesus.
joe rogan
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
But also you have to recognize that he built himself into that state over decades.
ari shaffir
Do you know marathon, where it comes from?
joe rogan
Yeah, it was a distance that they had to run to alert someone of something, right?
ari shaffir
And do you know the guy?
I guess his name was Marathon.
Died right afterwards.
Right afterwards.
Delibered the message and died.
joe rogan
But it was more than an actual marathon.
ari shaffir
It wasn't 26.2?
joe rogan
I think it was 100 miles.
I think the guy ran 100 miles.
See if that's true.
The origin of the term marathon.
ari shaffir
JV, call that up.
Origin of marathon, please.
Thank you.
unidentified
Yeah, pull that shit up, JV. Nice t-shirt, by the way.
joe rogan
Um...
So, uh, Cam doesn't count.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't understand how he's not always hurt.
ari shaffir
But anyway, so you do less...
joe rogan
Oh, 25 miles.
unidentified
Oh.
joe rogan
Huh.
So it is not...
ari shaffir
He was just announcing the fucking...
announcing the defeat of the Persians.
He was just announcing a sports score.
joe rogan
Wow.
ari shaffir
He wasn't alerting them.
joe rogan
Say that guy's name.
Try to say his name.
The soldier...
Fidip...
Fidipides?
unidentified
Fidip...
joe rogan
Is that it?
Fidipides?
unidentified
Sure.
ari shaffir
Sure.
He's like, I don't know, dude.
What do you want, man?
You're the boss.
joe rogan
The first marathon commemorated the run of soldier Pheidippides from a battlefield near the town of Marathon, Greece to Athens in 490 BC. According to legend, Pheidippides ran the approximately 25 miles to announce the defeat of the Persians to some anxious Athenians.
But it doesn't say that the guy died.
ari shaffir
No, it does not, but I guess it did.
joe rogan
See how that guy's running?
Look up.
See where the guy's striking with his heel?
ari shaffir
It's wrong.
joe rogan
Totally wrong.
Not only is it wrong, human beings never ran like that before they invented those stupid fucking shoes.
ari shaffir
I heard you say that before when you're talking about the goat shoes.
So I try to like lead with my, not soul, what is it?
joe rogan
Ball of my foot.
ari shaffir
Ball of my foot, yeah.
joe rogan
You're supposed to lean forward more, and when you lean forward more, you strike down, and you almost hit with your foot flat.
But what you never want to do is run like that asshole, heel down.
That's how people destroy their knees running.
And that was all created by Nike.
Nike created that stupid, fat heel shoe to give you more cushioning.
But the mechanics of it are totally wrong.
If you ever watch little kids run, they run ball of the foot first.
ari shaffir
That's natural.
joe rogan
That's how you're supposed to naturally run.
Your foot is literally designed as a shock absorber.
I run with those minimalist shoes.
My shoes have zero cushioning.
Zero.
So I'm running mountains and hills and shit like that.
Even when I hunted elk last week, see these guys?
ari shaffir
Oh yeah, right on the ball.
But yeah, the black ones, the real dark black ones who are good.
joe rogan
They run barefoot, those fucking guys.
But these guys, they're landing flat.
They have a lot of cushioning on these shoes, you have to realize.
Some of these guys are landing heel.
That guy in the back is landing heel first.
And that's because of those goddamn shoes.
If you didn't have shoes like that, there's no fucking way.
That guy's all heel.
See that last guy?
That guy's all heel.
You would never run like that.
It's against the mechanics of the human knee.
Hold it.
Go back to that.
What is that video that just came up?
It's the Elite.
What was that video that was just coming up next?
unidentified
It was about to come up next.
joe rogan
It said Candice.
Running Cadence.
Oh, Cadence.
Okay.
That video, that's the only reason that people are running like that, is because of the invention of those shoes.
I mean, you run quite a bit, right?
jamie vernon
I've seen, the reason I look for that is because I've seen a video from the Olympics, I think it was last year, where they were showing long-distance runners, and all of them had a different stride.
Some were running ball foot first, some were running heel first.
joe rogan
The winter was different.
jamie vernon
I mean, it also goes to all their bodies are different.
unidentified
They have different...
joe rogan
Well, you can run heel first with those shoes.
And you can get away with it for a long time.
The issue is that it's not the way your body is designed.
And the only reason why people are running like that is because of those fucking shoes.
You know, if you talk to physiologists and people study anatomy and the loads and the human need, there's massive...
unidentified
Loads.
Loads.
joe rogan
There's massive problems with running heel first.
It's just not...
You're not designed like that.
ari shaffir
I would say, though, just as a disclaimer, the biggest problem for most people who are probably listening to it is you don't run at all.
joe rogan
Yeah, that too.
ari shaffir
So go ahead and get up your fucking ass and run, and then figure out the exact right technique later.
joe rogan
Remember when we tried to convince Bert that running on a treadmill is not the same as running?
ari shaffir
And he was like, no way.
And then he tried real running.
He was like, oh, fuck.
Dude, it is so much harder.
joe rogan
Of course, the fucking treadmill's coming towards you.
All you have to do is pick your legs up.
ari shaffir
But you know what's way, for me anyway, that I've noticed?
joe rogan
What?
ari shaffir
Running on actual ground versus pavement.
Ground is way easier.
joe rogan
Oh, way easier.
ari shaffir
On my joints, I can go longer.
It's a give or something.
It's like burning a cork.
joe rogan
But you can run on pavement, no problem, as long as you run uphill.
ari shaffir
Oh, really?
Because then it's toe-toe-toe?
joe rogan
Well, it's not just that.
There's no pounding when you're running uphill.
Because you're decelerating as you catch yourself, and you're pushing off.
It's like you're doing lunges.
ari shaffir
The problem, though, with that is unless you're running in a Dali painting, then it's fucking impossible to keep running uphill.
joe rogan
That's a good point.
Good reference, too.
ari shaffir
Dali painting.
How many Dali references do you have on this MMA podcast?
joe rogan
Zero.
This is the first one ever.
I walk downhill, basically.
ari shaffir
Your welterweight?
joe rogan
And then run uphill.
ari shaffir
Oh, really?
joe rogan
I kind of...
I mean, I go way slower downhill.
It's just dangerous.
It's bad for your joints to pound, like, going downhill.
Like, deceleration, like, running downhill and catching yourself like that, it's just not good.
But the deceleration, like, when you...
It's not even deceleration, really, but when you run uphill, there's no pounding.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because you're just reaching that area and then pushing.
ari shaffir
But it wears you out more, your muscles, but you're right, the joints are okay.
We were hiking the Alps this year in July, and man, there's uphills where you really have to push, but the downhills, you're pushing off, and it just hurts more.
joe rogan
It hurts your quads.
It beats up your knees, too.
It really beats up your knees.
I found that elk hunting, too, but the painful stuff was the downhill.
You're just stopping yourself, stopping yourself, stopping yourself.
There's also a lot of sliding.
ari shaffir
Yeah, and they almost got to push your foot sideways to go down that way.
It's almost easier.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's why they have such stiff shoes.
So you don't come over the edge?
You get an edge, and you can dig that edge into the ground.
ari shaffir
I got some good boots for that, and it was really good.
joe rogan
Makes a big difference.
I tried hiking with these minimalist shoes this last trip that I was on.
I didn't like them.
I wasn't a fan.
They're fine for running, if I'm running on a trail, but for hiking, the human body is just...
We have bitch ass bodies.
ari shaffir
Our bodies are so weak.
Also, with boots, you want to be able to walk into a creek without having to worry about this is going to soak my socks for the next four hours.
joe rogan
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah, Gore-Tex.
You want that Gore-Tex lining of your boots.
ari shaffir
By the way, so after that fight, after that me and Duncan kissing, there was a blog that went up pretty fast that said two bored bearded dudes make out of the UFC. And I got a text from a guy.
I just got a new phone, a new Flippi.
And I didn't know who it was.
Somebody texted me like, oh, you two were quite the social media darlings last night, weren't you?
And I didn't respond.
I didn't know who it was.
And then later, I looked through my iMessage.
It was Dana.
And I was like, I hope he's not mad.
He doesn't I don't think he does, but you never quite know.
joe rogan
I know, right?
ari shaffir
Because you're like, you are a CEO. In addition to being this cool, fucking regular dude who curses all the time, you're also a CEO, which is who I don't normally get along with.
joe rogan
He's the president of a gigantic sports organization.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
That guy, it's interesting meeting that guy, too.
Having dinners with him and casual conversation to listen to a highly successful person and just how they...
Normally act.
Once he dropped the guard, you know?
It's just interesting.
He's like a driven dude.
unidentified
He's super normal.
joe rogan
He's very driven.
He loves making deals and all the shit that's involved in it.
ari shaffir
Hearing you guys talk about, like, The fucking meatheads of Boston fighting and stuff, like the top two meatheads finally met.
I remember this story he told once and I was like, whoa.
joe rogan
Well, Boston, where Dana came up and where I came up, the sparring was awful.
He sparred a lot in South Boston and I sparred in Somerville and in Revere and a couple of these other places.
Everybody would beat the shit out of each other.
There was no real sparring.
ari shaffir
I believe there's only one R in Revere.
joe rogan
Revere.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Revere.
Yeah, there was no...
You're supposed to spar...
Well, there's a lot of debate on this, but most people think you should spar at like 60 to 70% maximum.
Everybody sparred 100%.
ari shaffir
Wow.
joe rogan
Went for it.
They just fought.
Everybody fought.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Everybody got brain damage.
100%.
ari shaffir
That's why Boston's how it is.
Either you went to Harvard or you're a dork.
joe rogan
And the women aren't the best looking.
There was one time when you went on stage.
You went on stage.
ari shaffir
You challenged me.
And we said something.
It's like one of these things that comics do where you say something like real dark just to your comic friends.
And they're like, you should do that on stage.
And it's like this challenge of like, oh, right.
joe rogan
Ari goes on stage at the Comedy Connection in Faneuil Hall.
I don't remember the exact wording of it.
But you were like, you know, the problem with Boston is women are just really not that good looking.
And people are like, how?
ari shaffir
I love that training.
Now I can go after a crowd and just like, hey, you can go with me if you want.
I'm being honest.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
You know?
joe rogan
Training.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
And you can see that in like Cat Williams when he's shitting on Michael Jackson when he was still a hero.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And everyone's like, boo.
He goes, fuck you.
I have children.
unidentified
Fuck you.
ari shaffir
He's a molester.
joe rogan
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
You know that go right at them.
I don't care how you feel.
I'm justified in this.
joe rogan
Well, Catwood is super justified with that.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, that was just something.
ari shaffir
So was I. Boston women are disgusting.
Even if they're good looking, their voices are garbage.
You're wicked funny.
joe rogan
Fuck me and my pussy, huh?
unidentified
Come on, you fucking queer.
joe rogan
But those were fun times too, man, because when we first started going on the road together, one of the more fun things was really fun hanging out and doing shows, but it was also fun saying, you can't get fired.
ari shaffir
Dude, that was such an influential time, my stand-up.
That specifically, where it was like, we're at the hotel, five-minute walk from Faneuil Hall, and they're like, let's get high.
And I was like, no, I'm about to perform on stage.
You're crazy.
I can't get high right now.
That's when I had been high 20 times, maybe.
And you're like, why?
I'm like, because I won't do good.
He goes, so?
I'm like, what do you mean so?
He goes, so?
I'm like, but then, he goes, you won't get fired.
They didn't hire you.
You can't play here.
It's 450 seats.
And also, like, it gets too far for you to go to feature, and you're just way too big for you to headline, so I'm hiring you.
And I don't care if you get too fucked up.
So smoke pot.
And I was like, yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I also wanted you to feel free in that.
There's these moments when you get high and you go on stage where, and they don't always happen, but there are moments where you take a right turn into Brilliantville.
And that right turn doesn't exist sometimes if you're sober.
If you're sober, you'll stick to the script.
But if you're high, you're like, so what if I did fuck my dog?
ari shaffir
Yeah.
And people are like, let's try it.
unidentified
I don't know.
ari shaffir
Let's try this for a while.
joe rogan
Out of nowhere, you might come up with this premise or this tagline or this thing that comes from you being in this altered state of consciousness.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And you can't do it, any comic listening, I would not advise you doing it on a big showcase where you have to show, like, William, Marshall, or when you're taping something where it's important.
But for workout sets, when really you're just trying to get work out of this.
Mm-hmm.
And back then, I could get high.
Now, you and I, we get high for a couple hours, maybe.
Then I was high for nine hours.
I smoked three hits.
So anyway, we had two sets that night, a Friday or Saturday night.
And the first set was awful.
I mean, I forgot what I was saying.
I had no idea where I was going.
joe rogan
It wasn't that bad.
ari shaffir
It was bad.
joe rogan
No, no, no.
Parts of it were really funny.
ari shaffir
Parts of it.
Okay.
But then by the second set, now then you went on for an hour, then we had a half hour break, and then went on again.
By then I had come down a little bit, and the second set was what you were talking about.
Free, flowing.
joe rogan
You really should get high about an hour and a half before you go on stage.
Not like right before.
I fucked up and got high right before.
That's not wise.
What's wise is an hour and a half.
ari shaffir
On your way down.
You already know where it's gone, and now you're coasting.
You know what Edgar would do?
Matt Edgar would do it for a while?
He would go on late at the Comedy Store.
And he wouldn't get high all day.
You know your first hit of the day is like your biggest one?
Cigarette smokers have this.
It's the only time you can get a buzz, that first cigarette.
But your first weed hit is the biggest one.
He wouldn't smoke all day.
He'd have a 12, 15 a.m.
spot.
And when they go, hey, Matt, we're lighting Tony.
He'd go, cool, run to the main room, smoke a bunch in that three minutes, and then go on stage.
And he'd be going up and feeling it while he's on.
It wouldn't even hit him until he's two minutes on.
joe rogan
Oh, Jesus.
ari shaffir
Yeah, he did that for like six months.
joe rogan
That would be good if you had notes.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And if you followed what you talked about already?
ari shaffir
That's what I tell me when they play clandestine or Comedy Underground, they call it, in Toronto.
joe rogan
Oh, that place is crazy.
ari shaffir
In Queens East.
Yeah, and I'm like, any advice?
I'm like, my advice is bring a set list.
I normally don't say that, but this is one you will lose your place.
joe rogan
Dude, there was no air in that room once.
It was only pot.
Like, you were breathing pot and exhaling pot.
It was all pot.
ari shaffir
My buddy Manolis, he was like, I don't smoke.
And then he's in the back for 20 minutes.
Like, dude, I'm high as shit.
joe rogan
Yeah, Tripoli.
Tripoli wasn't getting high back then.
ari shaffir
And yes, you are if you stand in there.
unidentified
Oh, yes, you are.
joe rogan
He was barbecued.
ari shaffir
That's when I started to believe secondhand smoke is a real thing.
It's fucking totally real.
I didn't think it was until then.
joe rogan
People don't think it's real.
We used to mock Tate because Tate didn't want to get high.
We would smoke pot and Tate would have to stick his head out the window like an ostrich.
ari shaffir
I feel like, what the fuck is wrong with him?
joe rogan
He was worried he didn't want to get hotboxed.
That's when we used to get vans.
Remember we used to get vans for a while?
ari shaffir
Yeah, conversion vans.
joe rogan
Yeah, we would rent vans because there were so many of us.
Oh yeah, you would come with a fucking entourage.
Yeah, we would entourage it.
And Red Van would film it.
We would just have shenanigans in every town we went to.
ari shaffir
You bring...
You, of course, and then Eddie, Tate, and Red Band as the non-comedians, and then me and Duncan, or me and Diaz, or whatever.
joe rogan
There was a shitload of us.
ari shaffir
Yeah, so five, six people.
joe rogan
And then we would feast.
We'd go to these fucking amazing restaurants, feast.
ari shaffir
Fogo a lot.
joe rogan
Oh, we went to a lot of Fogos.
ari shaffir
It brings me back.
One of my memories, I believe it was Cincinnati, was nearby, right near the hotel.
joe rogan
It was Cincinnati.
ari shaffir
Okay, Chihuahua.
joe rogan
Yeah, right across the street.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
And as we're leaving, fucking newly Botoxed, what's his name?
Vandele came in.
We're like, dude, that's fucking Vandele.
And he was the most fierce pre-game fighter.
The way he'd look at you like, I want to kill you for taking this fight.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Nobody was scarier than him in his prime.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Krokop was scary because he would just be so calm, like, I don't care, let's do this.
joe rogan
Well, Krokop stared him down more than anybody ever stared Vanderlei down.
ari shaffir
He wouldn't break.
joe rogan
Krokop was a straight-up killer.
ari shaffir
He was like, I've murdered people in Krokop.
joe rogan
He was the head of the Croatian anti-terrorist squad.
ari shaffir
They've begged for mercy and I've showed them none.
joe rogan
Get the fuck out of here.
And he's a world-class kickboxer.
He wasn't afraid of Vanderlei's strike, and he was a heavyweight, and Vanderlei really wasn't a heavyweight.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
But anyway, we saw him checking in and we went to eat.
He was in that churrascaria 15 minutes late.
He threw his shit down and came in.
He was so excited about it.
joe rogan
That's it.
Look at Crow Cop.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Dude.
Nobody stared down Krokop back then.
That was when Krokop was at the peak.
ari shaffir
Look at this Japanese guy going through his routine and he's like, fuck.
joe rogan
And I'm pretty sure this was before Krokop really had sort of mastered MMA. He was coming over as a straight kickboxer and they had different rules for him.
The rules for Krokop were like, you can only fight on the ground for like 30 seconds.
Oh really?
Yeah, and if the fight went to a distance it would be a draw.
unidentified
Damn.
joe rogan
Yeah, because he really didn't have a lot of experience with takedown defense or any MMA fighting back then.
And Vanderlei didn't get Botox.
He had his face reconstructed because his nose, he had been in so many brawls, his nose had completely flattened where he couldn't breathe out of it, and he had so much scar tissue over his eyes that his eyes were drooping down, so he'd get cut instantly.
Any any punch that would hit him would open him up like a gash and his nose was completely flat So they took a chunk of his rib and rebuilt his nose and he had his nose built big So he could breathe out of it more and then he had all the scar tissue removed from his eyebrows and then pulled back And according to Dana, I don't know but Dana's like he got it's done in Brazil on the cheap And it's just like wasn't the didn't they didn't really make him look like Vanderlei Wow, I
So he went from Vanderlei Silva, it's like Vanderlei Silva has the most profound facial form change in all of MMA. Because he went from pretty, if you go back, Vanderlei Silva versus, go to Vanderlei Silva versus Dan Henderson 1. When they first fought in Pride, he was a normal, actually pretty good-looking guy.
Like, regular, good-looking guy.
And then by the time he left Pride, his face was just smashed in.
By the time he fought Chuck Liddell, his face was just smashed in.
His nose had been literally flattened.
ari shaffir
Wow.
joe rogan
From punches and kicks, and not just from fights, but also from training.
The training that he did at Shoot to Box in Curitiba was legendary.
ari shaffir
Yeah, his face was fucked up.
joe rogan
Fucked up.
ari shaffir
That also, okay, would bring me to another thing.
We got to go to Brazil one time.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
We didn't do a show that time.
joe rogan
See, that's him versus Dan Henderson.
ari shaffir
Yeah, pretty normal looking.
joe rogan
Make that a little bigger.
So you can see.
Yeah, super normal looking.
Just a normal looking badass.
That was the first fight while he fought Dan Henderson.
ari shaffir
Dan Henderson's chin looks like it's drawn on.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's got an iron chin.
ari shaffir
Like somebody fucked up.
joe rogan
I know.
That extra bone.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
Jay Leno and him.
joe rogan
You see that picture of Vanderlei above that with the eye all fucked up?
That was him from that fight.
ari shaffir
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Dan Henderson connected with a haymaker of a right hand and fucked up his eye.
ari shaffir
I love how those guys smile on that.
Like, look at this badge.
Look at this cool picture I'm about to take.
joe rogan
But you mean, look at Vanderlei's face there in comparison to his face later on in his career.
Totally different.
Dan Henderson looks exactly the same.
He looks like the same guy.
He's just an older version.
He might be one of the toughest guys that's ever lived.
ari shaffir
So tough.
joe rogan
Yeah, Dan is just a fucking...
Now look at that picture up there with the tattoos on the shoulders.
Go to that one.
Now that's him after facial reconstruction.
Make that larger.
See?
That's after the facial reconstruction has settled in.
You know?
ari shaffir
Oh, we saw him right then.
joe rogan
And he just fought real recently, like a couple weeks ago.
ari shaffir
No way, he's still fighting?
joe rogan
Got knocked out by Rampage.
Rampage flatlined him.
unidentified
Wow.
ari shaffir
Rampage is still fighting too.
joe rogan
Yep.
Rampage still carries that power.
ari shaffir
That was when he KO'd, Rampage KO'd him in the UFC. Him knocking him through the ring, through the ring in Pride was one of the coolest.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
I saw that later.
I mean, you know, way later.
You come to the UFC and it's like all these highlights, this backlog of highlights of MMA. Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, wow.
Especially after the UFC purchased Pride.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Rio was really cool.
That's a place to go.
And actually that fight, in terms of the audience response, the two biggest ones were Sylvia Couture in Columbus, first time they'd ever been in Columbus, and that Rio fight.
joe rogan
Jose Aldo versus, that was Chad Mendes, right?
ari shaffir
Which one?
joe rogan
The one in Brazil, wasn't it?
ari shaffir
It was a spinning back kick.
joe rogan
Oh, that was Terry Edom versus Edson Barboza.
ari shaffir
Dude, from fight one of the undercard, the place was so loud.
You could feel it shaking.
And I remember them chanting something in the crowd.
Because Dana did smart.
It was one of the first foreign ones.
And he made a Brazilian fighter on every fight.
He fucked up a little by having a couple times Brazilian versus Brazilian.
And they were chanting something in the audience.
joe rogan
You're going to die.
ari shaffir
Yeah, you were like, you go to the translator, like, hey, what are they saying?
Like, you're gonna die.
He's like, oh my god.
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Yeah, they didn't play games, man.
ari shaffir
Oh my god.
That's when they were like, legit, and I believed it.
Like, we gotta figure out how we're gonna get Chelsson out of here, fights Anderson here.
And I'm like, come on.
And then you go there, you're like, oh, I believe it now.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, they're fiercely, fiercely nationalistic.
And also, that's where MMA started.
I mean, really, MMA. I mean, martial arts started in the Orient.
They started in Japan and China.
But in terms of, like, legitimate mixed martial arts, valetudo, those no-rules fights, that's all from Brazil, man.
Brazil changed jiu-jitsu.
ari shaffir
You leave the airport, and there are these giant jiu-jitsu guys in guise looking at each other.
It's part of their organization, part of their culture.
joe rogan
It's huge over there.
I had on Rafael Lovato, who's one of the top Brazilian jiu-jitsu fighters in the world, who fights for Bellator now.
He's actually an American from Oklahoma.
It fights, you know, and really represents Brazilian jiu-jitsu.
But he was saying that, like, for the longest time, the Brazilians dominated the world championships.
He was one of the first Americans to win a gold medal in the world championships.
But for the longest time, like, even to this day, the Brazilians still, like, have a disproportionate number of gold medalists.
ari shaffir
Yeah, it's in them, right?
unidentified
Yep.
joe rogan
It's a huge part of the culture.
And they're so proud, you know?
So proud.
ari shaffir
That was one of the coolest places we've ever been to.
I remember also when we went to...
From Australia to Sydney.
And we did do a show then, and actually we did two shows.
It was cool.
But it was in your contract, first class companion ticket, way before we were ever going to go to Australia for that.
And then it was just as the UFC grew, it just grandfathered in.
And so I remember Dana coming up to me, half joking and half serious, just going, do you know how much your fucking ticket cost?
And I'm like, $25,000, dude.
That's how much I'm paying for you to go to Australia.
joe rogan
Yeah, those are good times.
ari shaffir
Yeah, and I was like, I almost want to be like, bro, put me in coach and give me fucking 12 of that.
I could use the money.
Let's split the difference, dude.
joe rogan
I'll suffer for 14 hours for 12 grand.
Shit.
Yeah.
Yeah, those are like apartments.
You have like a little apartment.
Oh, it was so great.
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Segura told me, you brought him the year before, and he was like, dude, get ready.
It's going to be so good.
They give you socks that I jerked off into.
It's such a fucking grand experience.
joe rogan
Yeah, you've been to a lot of fucking UFCs live, man.
ari shaffir
I went to...
Let's just talk about Anderson for a little bit.
unidentified
Okay.
ari shaffir
Because I believe my very first UFC was at the Pearl.
joe rogan
Yes, at the Palms.
ari shaffir
And I think it was Anderson versus Chris Liebman.
joe rogan
Yes, it was.
ari shaffir
Fun fight.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
I guess Anderson...
It might have been his first fight in the UFC. It was.
Okay.
And people were like, yeah, he's highly touted, but not crazy like he's the best.
Just like he's a big...
joe rogan
Well, I knew who he was.
And I was telling everybody, like, whatever the betting line is, it's off.
ari shaffir
You told me that on Glover Teixeira.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
ari shaffir
You're like, hey, dude, I don't really tell you.
Go fucking take money on this.
joe rogan
Yeah, put all the money on Glover.
ari shaffir
He was early in the undercard.
joe rogan
That was when Glover fought Kyle Kingsbury.
And it's just like people don't know.
And, you know, Glover...
ari shaffir
I was like, what's the line?
He goes, it doesn't matter.
He'll win.
joe rogan
He got a rough deal, man, because he couldn't get a visa to fight in the UFC for a long time.
ari shaffir
Couldn't get out of Brazil, right?
joe rogan
For six fucking years.
For six years, Glover had a toil in other countries.
He was one of the best ever.
He was fucking phenomenal back then, man.
And I think, you know, when we got him in the UFC, he was at the tail end of his greatness, honestly.
I mean, I think we never really got a chance to see Glover at his very best in the UFC. It's kind of like a Jackie Robinson.
ari shaffir
Like, what would his stats would have been if he could have played his whole career at HRO or something like that?
joe rogan
He's one of those guys that, I mean, I remember when he fought Sokuju.
He fought Sokuju, I think it was in the WEC, in the early days of the WEC when it was in Northern California.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
unidentified
Oh yeah.
joe rogan
He was Chuck Liddell's sparring partner and it was one of the rare times that he got to fight in the US. And I remember watching him fight and I would hear about him.
I think Hackleman told me about him too because he was training with Chuck.
And I was like, that guy's a motherfucker.
He is so good.
He was so solid.
And he was like, you know, training with Hackleman and training with Chuck Liddell in the early days when, you know, they're just savages, man.
And he had wrestling, too.
That was one thing that a lot of Brazilians didn't have.
They were more jujitsu-oriented.
He was a wrestler as well.
There was Babalu.
Babalu had a real good wrestling base, too.
ari shaffir
He probably was the first guy I remember making money by leaving the UFC. He was one of the early guys to like, I'll get paid as a UFC vet.
I have a name.
I'll get paid a bunch off this fucking Chuck fight.
I'll get paid a bunch for the rest of my career until everybody started going and then it wasn't worth that much anymore to be a former UFC guy.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's when Strikeforce opened up.
A lot of people realized that there was a legitimate venue and they were on Showtime.
Strikeforce was on Showtime.
When Kimbo fought there, all of a sudden it was a big fucking deal.
That was Elite XC. Remember that?
ari shaffir
Kimbo, the chick that went on to Gina Carano and they were making these people.
And that's actually where you've heard about Cyborg.
Yep.
joe rogan
Yep.
There was like Elite XC and then Strikeforce.
Those were two legit venues outside the UFC that really kind of, because the UFC wasn't as big back then, and then they were pretty legit.
ari shaffir
You could get it, you didn't have to pay-per-view it.
You could actually just watch it.
joe rogan
Which is what Bellator has going for it, too.
But now Bellator is on that new thing, DAZN? Do you know what that is?
Well, what they're doing is they're splitting.
It's like a streaming service.
They're splitting half the fights, Bellator on Paramount, which used to be Spike, now it's Paramount.
Half the fights on this DAZN network.
But what's crazy is the DAZN network just gave Canelo Alvarez $365 million.
They just gave him this giant deal.
ari shaffir
He's a former fighter, isn't he?
joe rogan
No, Canelo just won.
unidentified
He just beat Triple G. You're out of boxing.
ari shaffir
You know when I fully left it?
joe rogan
What?
ari shaffir
We went to your place once.
Your old house.
Me, you, Eddie.
Maybe a couple other people.
We were watching some Pride stuff that you DVR'd.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
And it cut off the last fight because it went long.
joe rogan
Oh, that's right.
And then we watched boxing.
ari shaffir
We watched boxing.
And after watching two hours of MMA, you see a guy get knocked down and they're just like, get away, get away, let him get up.
You're like, what the fuck is this?
So much hugging and fucking...
Boxing sucks!
joe rogan
It's great if you watch really good boxers, and if you know you're gonna go see boxing.
The Triple G and Canelo Alvarez fight that happened a couple of weeks ago, it was a really good fight.
It was a really good fight.
I thought Triple G, well, I thought it was a real close fight, but if I was gonna give it to someone, I think I would've given it to Triple G. But it was close enough where you can go, okay, this isn't a robbery.
But good fight.
ari shaffir
Too many decisions.
joe rogan
But leg kicks and takedowns.
It just makes fighting more interesting.
ari shaffir
It's also just way too many fucking...
Let's see what the judges said.
So nobody really won.
This guy just did better.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Nobody beat a guy.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
Rarely.
I mean, it happens, but just rarely.
joe rogan
It happens less.
Yeah, the thing about...
ari shaffir
You know, Pacquiao Mayweather was like, I mean, he could have kept fighting.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
So what have we decided?
joe rogan
Right, right, right.
Yeah, after 12 rounds, they could have gone 12 more.
ari shaffir
That's why I like the early Pride, like the early UFC with like Hoist.
It's like, yeah, you're going to fight me for 35 minutes.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
And then we'll see eventually I'll fucking wear you down.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
That's what Nate always says.
Like, if this was a war, you'd be dead.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
You know?
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
He's like, I choked you out.
That means I would have kept choking you.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And then just put a fucking, you know, twisted your neck.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I mean, if someone came along today and did no-time-limit fights, I wonder if you had three big no-time-limit fights.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like Nate versus Connor, Jon Jones versus DC, and have just three giant fights and have no time limit.
unidentified
Go.
ari shaffir
Fight.
unidentified
Oh!
joe rogan
That's a scary thing to go into that kind of a fight.
That's a different feeling.
unidentified
What Hoist went into in those early days of the UFC... He took a lot of abuse just to get past guard.
ari shaffir
Eight minutes later, he's like, so slowly move.
He's like, we're not in a rush.
Weird how it changes your fight plan based on this outside influence.
joe rogan
Well, people also have to remember Hoist fought guys that were so much bigger than them.
Massive!
Like Kimo.
Remember when he fought Kimo?
And Kimo was a giant roided up dude and was hitting him with bombs and Hoist was on his back and finally caught him in an arm bar and then couldn't continue.
He couldn't fight after that.
Yeah, he was supposed to fight later, and he couldn't fight.
He couldn't fight in the next fight.
He was just too bad.
ari shaffir
Oh, that's when they had tournaments, right?
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Crazy that they could fight twice in a night.
joe rogan
They were three times in a night.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Look at this.
unidentified
That's nutty.
joe rogan
Look how young Big John looks!
ari shaffir
Oh my gosh!
joe rogan
Jesus Christ!
ari shaffir
He's not even growing facial hair.
joe rogan
There's Kimo.
Kimo was giant.
I mean, he was so huge.
He had Jesus tattooed on his stomach.
Wow.
Look how big he is.
ari shaffir
Damn.
joe rogan
Yeah, that was a crazy-ass fight, man.
ari shaffir
That's when I was like, what is this whole sport?
I remember getting it in my friend's college dorm.
joe rogan
I was like, what?
Helson Gracie in the back.
I mean, that was the clan, man.
That was the Gracie clan.
ari shaffir
Who was the Gracie that was supposed to be, but they were like, you're too good, it'll fuck everything up?
joe rogan
Hickson.
But the thing about it was not just that Hickson was too good, but also that Hickson wouldn't listen.
Like, no one could control Hickson.
ari shaffir
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Like, yeah, because Horian created the UFC, and Horian was the oldest brother, Horian Helson.
I don't know.
I'm not sure which one was older.
ari shaffir
Damn, they went right at it.
There was no feeling each other out.
17 seconds in, they're fucking full-on.
joe rogan
Horian had to do that.
I mean, he had to close the distance to get a hold of him.
ari shaffir
The door opened.
He's like, wait, wait, wait.
He's like, oh, fuck, this is sucky.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Ready to go.
Yeah, and Kimo had his wrist taped up, but not his knuckles.
unidentified
It was crazy times back then.
ari shaffir
Yeah, bare knuckles.
I forgot about that.
joe rogan
Yeah, bare knuckles, stomps, soccer kicks.
You could do anything back then.
You could kick in the balls.
You could knee in the balls.
You could hold the hair.
ari shaffir
Oh, yeah, right there.
That's right.
Remember that guy just kept wailing in the balls like 30 times, so eventually the guy was like, all right, all right, I'm out.
joe rogan
Ketachne.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Keith Hackney versus Joe Son.
He fucking balled him up.
ari shaffir
Joe Son who went to jail for rape, right?
joe rogan
He went to jail for...
Yeah, and he murdered his cellmate.
He went to jail for a gang rape.
They arrested him for something else and they did a DNA test on him and found out that he was a part of a gang rape.
ari shaffir
Damn.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Look how skinny Big John is.
ari shaffir
Big John is so small.
He's just John there.
joe rogan
So svelte looking.
So sexy.
Like a model.
This is 93, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
So this is a long ass fucking time ago, man.
ari shaffir
25 years.
Yeah.
joe rogan
And hoist.
Look, head butt.
See that?
Hoist with the head butt.
Headbutts, knees in the ball.
ari shaffir
He's like, please fall down so I can do what I need to do.
joe rogan
Well, I mean, he really didn't have a wrestling background.
I mean, you see how high his hips are.
You know, he didn't drop down and go for a double.
He was basically just clinching.
unidentified
He was so undersized.
joe rogan
Yeah, he was basically clinching and then hoping he could get to fight to the ground with a trip.
And there he goes.
And then when he tripped him, Kimo wound up on top of him, which is hilarious.
Look at this.
Flattened out, had his back.
It was terrible.
Terrible position.
But look, hoist...
ari shaffir
He's instantly turning.
joe rogan
Hoist is just happy that he's on the ground.
He's like, dude, keep wrestling with me.
I'll fucking get you.
But look at this.
Kimo is riding his back.
But Kimo is maybe 80 or 90 pounds heavier than him.
ari shaffir
It's a lot to get off your back.
joe rogan
Yeah, Hoist was like 175. And he's got that gi too.
Yeah, he was 175 and Kimo was easily 250. He was a big fucking guy, man.
ari shaffir
Look, and there's no back of the head, so he's got to protect himself with distance.
joe rogan
And also, Kimo is holding on to Hoist's gi.
But now, look, he fucked up.
He got tired.
Look, wide open guard.
ari shaffir
And then he just didn't even try to...
joe rogan
Yeah, but he bucked him off just from sheer size.
But Kimo just got exhausted.
Because when you're that big, if you don't have a real rigorous strength and conditioning program, you just get fucking Look at this.
ari shaffir
Triangle's going in and you've got no idea.
Oh no, arm bar.
joe rogan
Armbar, but looks not that good.
Kind of sloppy.
He's tired, man.
He's carrying this fucking big guy's weight.
And again, they didn't have strength and conditioning back then, man.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
No one knew what the fuck they were doing.
This was all just...
ari shaffir
They definitely didn't know how to cut weight.
They didn't have to.
joe rogan
He didn't cut any weight.
ari shaffir
Yeah, none of them had to.
joe rogan
But they didn't know shit about nutrition.
I mean, in 93, man, now remember he got a hold of that hair.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he got a fistful of hair and started punching him in the face.
ari shaffir
Oh, he really creates distance for the arm triangle there.
Nope, he still can't get it.
joe rogan
Fistful of hair.
ari shaffir
He's not letting go.
unidentified
Look at this.
joe rogan
Bitch, I got your hair.
ari shaffir
You fucked up, man.
She's got a haircut.
joe rogan
Yeah, you can try to be sexy.
That Tong Po bullshit.
But, you know, we learned so much about martial arts from these fights.
Because everybody had these ideas like woodwork and wouldn't work.
ari shaffir
And then once they did that, it was like, oh, I have to work on my ground.
And then that evolved, and that evolved, and it evolved.
I like the old logo.
joe rogan
It just opened up jujitsu schools worldwide, everywhere.
And everybody wanted to be a Gracie.
You know, guys were changing their name to Gracie.
Guys were like marrying Gracie's just to have the Gracie name.
Guys would marry a female Gracie and then change their name to Gracie.
I mean, it was crazy.
It was the difference between you making a million dollars and you making nothing.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Nobody wanted to go to Fred's Jiu-Jitsu.
Everybody wanted to be a part of the Gracie Academy, you know?
Like, look at this guy, all that hair on the ground.
ari shaffir
What is that?
Oh, it's a hair clip.
joe rogan
That's Kimo's hair.
He pulled a fistful of fucking hair off of it.
ari shaffir
He pulled it out?
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
What the fuck?
They're both so tired.
joe rogan
Oh, exhausted, man.
This is really interesting, actually.
unidentified
And this is only four minutes in.
ari shaffir
How long does this fight go?
joe rogan
I think it went seven minutes, if I have to remember exactly.
ari shaffir
It's crazy.
They're both so worn out.
joe rogan
It looks like it's more.
What's that, Jamie?
unidentified
It's about to end right here.
joe rogan
It's about to end here?
422?
Oh, hey, he catches him.
ari shaffir
He keeps going for the armbar of the triangle, and eventually he's like, I'll get one of them.
joe rogan
Oh, right here he gets it.
So it was like 428, he's catching the armbar.
So this is like first round.
ari shaffir
I wonder if he even knows what he's going for here.
joe rogan
Oh, Hoist does.
ari shaffir
No, not Hoist.
He's like, what are you doing?
I don't get it.
joe rogan
I think he more tapped because he was exhausted than anything.
Look at him.
He's exhausted.
Yeah, he is.
He got the arm bar for sure, but barely.
But then Hoist was so beaten down by this fight that he couldn't go on.
But Hickson would have destroyed chemo.
It would have been a completely different thing.
Because Hickson was strong as fuck, man.
And Hickson was...
There's Joe Son.
Hickson was a different animal.
Hickson was much more physically imposing.
He was about 190, 200 pounds.
He was smaller than chemo, but he was jacked.
ari shaffir
Look at their bodies.
Look at his fucking body.
It's just like wrestler body.
A professional wrestler body.
joe rogan
Yeah, more bodybuilder than anything.
Whereas Hoist is just...
If you saw Hoist with his shirt off, you would think, that guy's not even a fighter.
He'll wrap you up like a fucking package.
ari shaffir
So back to Anderson, though.
So my bookends with him are...
That first leave-and-fight, and then shattering his leg, which I was in front row for, which you didn't even believe it.
It didn't make sense to see a leg move like that.
You're like, I don't get it.
It looked like somebody filled up a sock with pebbles and just hit it against something.
It didn't make sense.
And it was so gross.
But in the interim, seeing that first Chael Sonnen fight, When he was, I mean, he won four and a half rounds, Chael Sonnen.
joe rogan
Yep, he almost won the title.
ari shaffir
And then to get that, I mean, it was such a legendary sports thing.
Not UFC, but sports thing.
How this guy's down like crazy in a title fight, a guy who's never been tested, was finally tested, and was losing.
It was over.
This guy, Chael Sonnen, was beating him.
He figured him out.
And then to get that triangle with, what, 40 seconds left?
Two minutes left?
Whatever it was.
But I remember what's so clear and indelible in my head is afterwards.
We're at the entrance.
Everyone's cleared out of the stadium.
We're at the entrance to the caves of the stadium, wherever it was.
It's me, you, I think Dana, Randy was there.
And we're all talking.
And then every once in a while, somebody's mind would go to that fight.
And you just see him go like, yeah, yeah, I think the weather's pretty nice here.
And then you see somebody go like...
Like you couldn't believe it.
I remember seeing Randy Couture do that.
joe rogan
Look at this.
Four minutes into the fight, grabs a hold of it, or four rounds into the fight, grabs a hold of it, syncs up the triangle and gets a triangle armbar combination and taps him.
Wow.
And Anderson came into that fight injured.
Anderson had a fucked up rib entering into that fight, and a lot of people thought he should have pulled out.
What kind of weird edit is this with all the blurriness?
All these strange fan edits.
ari shaffir
I mean, it was nuts.
It was nuts for that guy.
joe rogan
Look at him.
See how he's holding his side?
ari shaffir
And that was the first trash talk fight I ever remember, too.
joe rogan
Well, Charles Sonnen, people forget how good he was at talking shit.
ari shaffir
He was the best.
joe rogan
The best.
ari shaffir
He was the best.
When Anderson Silva walks into the ring, you can hear a mouse pissing on cotton.
When I walk in, it's thunder.
I mean, the promos he would cut were just the best.
That hadn't been done yet.
Now it's done a lot.
joe rogan
Well, Conor McGregor, you know, it's arguable that Chael was even better than Conor.
ari shaffir
It is arguable, but if you take time period into account, no one was doing it.
joe rogan
Right, he was the first.
And he was building up fights as a heel for the first time ever.
ari shaffir
Brock did a little bit later.
joe rogan
People forget how good Chael could fight.
If you go back to me, one of his most impressive victories was Nate Marquardt.
Because he fought Nate Marquardt when Nate was one of the best.
And he ragdolled him.
And it was a bloody, crazy, chaotic fight.
And he basically dominated him with wrestling.
Chael just fought last week.
He just got knocked out by Fedor.
ari shaffir
Damn.
joe rogan
He stopped by Fedor.
He had some good moments in that fight.
He had Fedor's back.
He tried to roll him over.
There's a move that you do.
You go under the chin when you have someone's back.
You go under the chin and then you somersault over and try to carry with momentum.
Try to carry them over.
But it's a core strength move.
ari shaffir
Head and arm?
joe rogan
Well, yeah, he had the back, and he was kind of like riding high on the back, and he felt like he had a grip under the chin.
I don't know how he held his hands, but what you do is, when you have a guy's back, you hold it like this, and then you go forward, so you take them forward with you.
That way you have their back.
When you're on your back, you could cinch up a body triangle, you could cinch up the choke, but...
Fedor shook him off and then beat the fuck out of him.
ari shaffir
And then he was on the ground.
joe rogan
Yeah, watch how he does it.
So he tries to flip him over seat, but he lost control.
And then BOOM! Haymakers coming down from one of the greatest ground-and-pound experts of all time.
ari shaffir
What a giant difference that was.
Getting that or not getting it.
joe rogan
Also, you know, Chael fought 185. Fedor's been heavyweight his whole life.
It's like, you know, there's a lot of factors in there.
But it was a good fight for as long as it landed.
As long as it lasted, rather.
ari shaffir
One of the cool things that we've gotten is the ability to hang out casually with these fighters.
Like having just breakfast with Randy.
Seeing him.
Enough times with you that I remember one time I was going into a buffet or whatever or the hotel free breakfast and looking around and just having him go like, Hey, sit with me.
I'm like, Oh, okay.
You're just such sought after.
I'm talking about nothing.
Some of my favorites were in Chicago going to the weigh-ins.
And then like, let's go to the show.
And then just drunk driving with Clay Guido.
I'm like, I'll drive you.
It's his city.
It's his city.
And he's like, come with me.
We're like, okay.
And you, white knuckling, holding on to the front seat as he's swerving with a brown paper bag.
joe rogan
He drives like he fights.
ari shaffir
And I'm just like, I accept death, so either way, it doesn't matter.
And he's just going for it on these highways that he knows.
And then I believe the rain.
And it was just like, it was just like so fun.
joe rogan
Yeah, good times.
ari shaffir
Another one that I remember early on, early on Jon Jones.
He wasn't anything then.
He was 4-0 maybe or something like that.
Meeting him, talking about shit, and I could talk about this now because it's no longer a banned substance in the UFC, but talking about weed.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And was like, yeah, let's smoke, bro.
He wasn't anything.
He wasn't anything.
And just going like, he's like, who's got weed?
I'm like, oh, Rogan's got it, but he's in his hotel room.
And texting you, flip phone texting you, back when it wasn't cool, hip to have a flip phone, when it was like, that's all anybody had.
That's how long ago.
unidentified
Right.
ari shaffir
And then just going like, maybe it's then.
Maybe it was early iPhone.
But like, just going, hey man, are you up?
And you're like, yeah, I'm kind of tired.
I'm going to sleep.
And it was like, fuck, John.
I think he doesn't want us up there.
And then like, no, no, let's go.
He's got the weed.
Let's go.
Because some fan gave it to us, right?
You had this fucking tin, like tin foil of weed.
And just knocking on your door.
And you're like, what?
And you're like, you were tired.
And it was like, do you have that weed?
Like, dude, come on.
I want to go to sleep.
It's like, me and John want to smoke.
And you're like, you looked at us.
You opened the door fully and looked at me and this young fighter.
And you were like, come on in.
And we all smoked pot together in this hotel room in fucking wherever it was.
I think Montreal, actually.
joe rogan
I think it was Montreal.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And it was just a fun time.
And then seeing this guy move on.
To become the baddest motherfucker on the planet.
joe rogan
Well, we also had a conversation with him about I wanted him to go to a different camp.
ari shaffir
That's right!
He was training in fucking YouTube videos in New York with his buddies in a garage.
joe rogan
You're too good, Mike.
You should be in a real camp.
ari shaffir
That's right.
We had that over weed in a hotel room.
joe rogan
He's like, you really think so?
I go, I know so.
I go, you only have a certain amount of time in this thing.
I go, and your time should be invested with a real coach who's going to hone your skills.
I go, you could be an all-time great, man.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah, I remember telling him that.
He's like, you really think so?
I go, I know so.
I know so.
You really got to move on.
ari shaffir
I forgot about that part of it.
How influential was that in the fucking future of mixed martial arts?
joe rogan
I hope it helped, you know?
ari shaffir
He did.
He went to Winklejohn.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Jackson Winklejohn.
Eventually.
joe rogan
I mean, he might have done it anyway.
ari shaffir
He might have.
joe rogan
Who knows?
But I think it was a good conversation to have with a young guy.
I was like, listen, man, you have real talent.
You could really be something.
But you've got to be coached by guys who are going to find out your tendencies.
ari shaffir
Your bouncing technique isn't going to take you that far.
joe rogan
Well, I mean, fucking he was so good.
Who knows how far?
He might have been a world champion even with the camp that he was in.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's so good.
And his wrestling is so powerful.
And he's so physically talented.
But...
It made a big difference for him to go to Jackson's and be able to train on a regular basis with world-class fighters.
Being there on a daily basis with Carlos Condit, who was at the top of his game back then.
ari shaffir
That's right.
joe rogan
I mean, Keith Jardine.
They just had a massive group of killers.
ari shaffir
they called it the Ring of Fire, where you go five rounds of sparring to get ready for a fight with a different high level, I mean, highest level fighter.
So like Nate Marquardt, like, cool, that was round one, get out of here, Jardine, you come in.
And now I just finished a fucking round with Nate Marquardt, now I gotta go with Keith Jardine.
Cool, round three, Jardine, get out, John Jones, you come in.
And it's like, what?
I mean, the training you got there, Craig Jackson's camp, Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, look, there's a reason why so many extremely high-level fighters are coming out of there.
And then Rashad Evans was there as well, too.
And Rashad had a real problem with John coming there because Rashad was like, hey, this guy's in my weight class.
ari shaffir
Yeah, but what are you going to do?
Have one guy in his weight class?
joe rogan
Right.
It's an issue.
Yeah.
And then, you know, Rashad and John became friends.
ari shaffir
They never fought.
joe rogan
They did fight.
ari shaffir
Did they?
unidentified
What?
Yeah.
When?
joe rogan
They fought and John beat the shit out of them.
ari shaffir
I don't even remember that.
joe rogan
They fought after they had a big falling out because Rashad was upset that, you know, John wound up getting a title shot and beat Shogun because Rashad got injured.
Rashad was supposed to get the title shot John steps in and they were friends at the time and then somewhere along the line then the trash talk started you know I'll fight Rashad fuck it and then it was like man I thought we were friends and then oh yeah that's back when it was like you know you guys can fight as friends you don't you don't have to like be at enemies everybody fight it's it's a sport and it's a it's a money thing and then when John beat him it was a real drubbing and it was Five rounds was a decision
and it was a real clear-cut unanimous decision.
He did some crazy shit to him, like step in, elbow to the face, rocked him.
ari shaffir
Oh yeah, I kind of do remember this one now.
joe rogan
This was John when he was developing.
ari shaffir
It wasn't even John, like the John that knocked out DC. I remember him saying in fights that I didn't really ever see this by the fighters.
Where he would talk about, after wins, talking about the holes, the fuck-ups he had, more than what he did right.
Whereas most guys would be braggadocious and be like, I loved it.
But it was like...
joe rogan
He was upset at things that went wrong.
ari shaffir
Yeah, he goes, I gotta cover that up.
That could get exposed.
I gotta, you know...
joe rogan
John's a fucking smart dude.
I mean, as reckless and chaotic as he is, and I've said this before, that I don't know what causes that kind of recklessness, but there is a direct correlation between traumatic brain injury, brain damage, and impulsive behavior and recklessness.
It's a fact.
It's well-researched.
It's well-documented in neuroscience.
They know that there's a connection.
I don't want to exonerate him from his past behavior, We see that in football players.
We see that in BMX riders that go crazy and fucking land on their head a bunch of times.
People, they get crazy.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
They get wild and impulsive.
It's just a fact.
It's just a part of the game.
You know, those people that engage in any kind of an activity where your brain gets rattled on a regular basis, you are way more likely to do ridiculous things that don't make any sense.
ari shaffir
That does make sense.
joe rogan
Yeah, it does.
That's what I said about John.
Have you talked to John about it?
I know John was upset with me after one of those things.
Before we actually did a podcast together, he was upset and I said, listen, man, I have to be honest about everything.
I have to be honest about how I feel about every single aspect of your performance, of your behavior.
I have to be.
It doesn't mean I don't love you.
It doesn't mean I don't think you're a great guy.
ari shaffir
You're paid to give your commentary on stuff.
joe rogan
I have to be.
ari shaffir
You don't really choose sides.
joe rogan
Not only can I not choose sides, I have to call what I see.
It's everything.
Because if I don't, then no one's going to listen to me.
ari shaffir
Finish this because I have a comment on it.
Go ahead.
No, go ahead.
Well, I remember finding it interesting that after Barack beat Heath Haring...
Yeah.
Went to whatever steakhouse he went to, and Heath coming in afterwards, and looking right at you, you said he wasn't good.
You were critical of him.
He sought you out and was like, can I talk to you?
And I was like, oh fuck, he's mad.
But he just wanted to express to you that he had this leg injury, and that's why he couldn't really defend that takedown.
But it's interesting how the fighters, that I get to see these fighters, respect your opinion enough to want to explain their side of it.
joe rogan
Well, I appreciate that.
And there's always a side.
Like, we were talking about that fighter that has this pretty significant injury that he's dealing with right now.
Like, most people don't even know.
And they wouldn't have known if he didn't tell you.
And there's a lot of these guys that go into fights and they're really compromised.
They have hand injuries, back injuries, neck injuries.
And this is just a part of this crazy sport where the whole objective is to injure people.
So you're injuring each other in training.
ari shaffir
And you've got to hide those injuries because then they'll exploit them.
joe rogan
Right.
But this is one of the reasons why I have to be honest all the time, is because people, they respect the fact that I'm not saying things because it sounds cool.
I'm saying things because this is actually what I see.
And maybe you have a different perspective, and maybe you could share your perspective with me, and I'll tell you why I thought this, and maybe I'll change my mind.
And I'm not scared to change my mind, but I've got to say what I think.
ari shaffir
Yeah, and it's cool that the fighters are like, just so you know I wasn't being a pussy.
joe rogan
I would never think Keith Haring would be a pussy.
ari shaffir
But they care that you know the real truth of it, and not that it was bad, but here's the reason.
It was interesting how they respect your opinion like that.
joe rogan
Well, a guy like Brock Lesnar, man, I swear that if Brock Lesnar got into mixed martial arts right out of college, went college wrestler, right into training, really learned striking, and learned slowly, like took some small fights.
ari shaffir
Like Jon Jones did.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah.
But really learn striking instead of spending all that time doing WWE, which I'm sure he made a fuckload of money.
ari shaffir
Oh, well, yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, good for him.
That's all great and everything like that.
But, man, I think he could have been one of the all-time greats.
I really do.
ari shaffir
He was so strong.
joe rogan
He's a freak.
unidentified
He's a freak.
ari shaffir
Nobody I remember cutting that much to heavyweight.
joe rogan
Dude, he was giant.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
Those heavyweights would weigh in with their jeans on because they're like, whatever I am.
joe rogan
There was no testing back then.
You've got to realize that the testing back then was horseshit.
And the best way to show that the testing was horseshit was to show when Alistair Overeem fought Brock.
That was the steroid Olympics.
Those two guys together inside the octagon.
But that was also Brock less than a year from diverticulitis surgery where they had to remove, I think, 12 inches of his fucking colon.
Or his...
Well, it's not even a meat eater.
I thought it was at the time.
Then I talked to, of all people, Anthony Bourdain told me, no, people get diverticulitis sometimes from seeds.
ari shaffir
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Like a seed will get stuck in your intestines.
unidentified
And it rot?
joe rogan
Yeah, well, just things get caught and stuck.
But they had to remove 12 inches of his intestines.
So they had to open him up.
ari shaffir
He was done after that.
joe rogan
Well, he was, and then he came back.
ari shaffir
But he was done, as the Brock Lesnar that everybody feared.
joe rogan
Well, he says that he was compromised even before that.
He said he was compromised before the Kane fight, and before a lot of his other fights, even the fight with Shane Carwin from diverticulitis.
He was suffering from it for a long time, and he just thought that he was just exhausted from training, but really, he was having this blockage and all this issue.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Look at this.
ari shaffir
Jesus.
Yeah, it was fun talking to...
joe rogan
That's 256 is incorrect, by the way.
That's not true.
ari shaffir
265?
joe rogan
When he weighed, he was 265. Who was?
ari shaffir
Overeem?
joe rogan
Overeem was.
Overeem was 265 as well.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
And if you look at Overeem on the scale for that fight, that's a great picture of the two of them facing down.
Like, Jesus Christ, they're both so jacked.
ari shaffir
So big.
And it's not like they're 6'10".
Brock is my height.
joe rogan
Yeah.
When Overeem was standing there flexing on the scale, you're like, what in the fuck is he?
Like right there.
What the fuck, dude?
ari shaffir
Wow.
He's not even like really flexing hard.
He's still smiling.
joe rogan
He's so jacked!
ari shaffir
Oh my god.
joe rogan
He was so jacked!
anthony cumia
He was so fucking jacked.
ari shaffir
What was Anderson's friend's trainer's name or manager's name?
George?
joe rogan
Oh, Ed Soares?
ari shaffir
Ed Soares, yeah.
And we were asking him about the Pride days.
And he was like, oh, they tested for steroids in Pride.
And you were like, what?
They tested for steroids?
He goes, yeah, I mean, they didn't do anything about it, but they just tested.
But they're like, yeah, you're both positive.
Go fight.
Who cares?
joe rogan
Yeah, well, according to Ensign Inouye, not only did they not test in Pride, they put it in the contract, we do not test for steroids.
ari shaffir
Oh, I thought he said they tested it and they're just like, we don't give a shit, but we just want to know.
joe rogan
I think they test, they took tests, but they didn't really test you.
ari shaffir
Goddamn, those guys are big.
Look at that brain card girl.
She was so young.
Which one was that?
joe rogan
Gorilla.
He was a gorilla, son.
unidentified
Jesus.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
He's blonde hair.
He should have been a Nazi in the war.
He's missed his calling.
He would have been one of the most feared Nazis there were.
Honestly, if he was a fucking Nazi, I would have rooted for the other team.
joe rogan
He was a Viking.
Fuck Nazis, dude.
He would have been on one of them boats with a dragon in the front of it.
ari shaffir
By the way, I mean, underrated John Jones for a weedhead.
I mean, everybody gives all the credit to fucking Nate and Nick.
unidentified
It's fair.
ari shaffir
They've earned it.
But when you would give a fucking, those breast strips, half a strip was the dose.
joe rogan
That's right.
ari shaffir
And on the plane, he was like, hey, you got it?
One of my finest compliments was John Jones.
I heard somebody else goes, hey, you know, John Jones always goes, oh, Shafir, he's always got great weed.
unidentified
And I'm like, hell yes.
ari shaffir
Hell fucking yes, I'll take that.
joe rogan
I gave him a package of breath strips and he ate the whole package.
unidentified
Two to a pack!
ari shaffir
Half of one is the...
And you're like, two, two, two, no!
joe rogan
Half is the dose.
He took two.
ari shaffir
And you're like, don't do that!
He's like, Joe Rogan, I'll be fine.
joe rogan
He was fine.
I was so scared for him.
I was paranoid because I gave Tommy Buns a half and we flew to Florida and he told me, he goes, dude, he goes, I swear to God, when we landed, he goes, I didn't think I was going to make it.
ari shaffir
I've had one of those with you before.
joe rogan
I really thought I couldn't make it.
I really thought there's no way I'm going to be able to survive this flight.
I'm going to freak out.
I'm going to have them land somewhere.
ari shaffir
I almost told the stewardess before we took off.
I was close to be like, we're not doing this.
We're not doing this.
We're not doing this.
We were on the runway.
The only thing that stopped me from doing it is knowing the abuse I would have taken from you verbally for the next two years.
That I'm like, I'd rather die.
joe rogan
I love those days.
It was so fun.
ari shaffir
I was actually, I felt bad for you a couple times in my life.
joe rogan
Why?
ari shaffir
One time me and Nick Youssef were doing a corporate in Vegas and we went to the new Aria and we took edibles and we walked around and I was like, oh, Rogan's too famous in Vegas.
He can't do this.
He can't get this fucked up and walk around casually.
But watching the fights on edibles, I'm like, it's too bad you don't get to experience this.
joe rogan
Yeah, you can't do that.
I have to do commentary 100% sober.
I tried early in the days.
Early in the day, I did one or two events where I was a little fucked up, and I was like, this is just too cloudy.
Because I would want to talk about other shit.
The fight would be going on, I'd want to talk about space.
ari shaffir
Like that dude who had a Stingray tattoo on his back?
He just fought in his last fights.
He was on there.
I think a guy who the fucking big black dude beat on the last 13 seconds.
joe rogan
Oh, Volkov?
ari shaffir
Yeah, I think he has a Stingray.
joe rogan
I thought it was like a...
Oh, yeah, it is kind of a Stingray, isn't it?
ari shaffir
I can see you going like, what a great fight.
Dude, Stingrays are some of the most underrated sea creatures there are.
First of all, they're peaceful as shit.
unidentified
They haven't evolved in millions and millions of years.
joe rogan
What a strange thing to have a tattoo on your back.
I wonder if he's like an ocean guy.
He's really into ocean creatures.
ari shaffir
Dude, we swam with those in...
I forget where.
Oh, Flores.
Flores.
joe rogan
Really?
ari shaffir
Yeah, near where the Komodo dragons are.
You fucking dive in and snorkel.
joe rogan
You went to the Isle of Flores?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's where that little fucking man lived.
You know, they had that human being that they found.
What do they call it?
Homo floriensis, I think they call it.
unidentified
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah, it was a little tiny hobbit-like person that existed, I want to say, as recently as 10,000 to 15,000 years ago.
There was like a three foot tall kind of human.
Yeah.
There's been many different branches of human being, right?
There's been Neanderthal, Homo sapiens.
They both evolved different ways.
Yeah.
There's one from Russia, Dionysus or something like that.
I forget how to say it.
Look at that.
ari shaffir
Oh, yeah.
No, I met that guy.
He ran a hostel I stayed in.
joe rogan
Yeah, that guy was the shit.
He gave you good drugs.
But this little person that lived alongside human beings, see if my timeline is right.
ari shaffir
Do they have speech?
joe rogan
They don't know, but they know they use tools.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
They always make sure to paint them with tools to show you what...
95,000, 70,000 years ago.
joe rogan
Oh, that's it.
17,000 years ago.
Wow.
Why does it say debunked?
What's that one?
Hobbit, human species, debunked?
I don't think that's correct.
It says new historian.
But I'm pretty sure that's probably an old article.
What year?
What's that article?
When is that?
ari shaffir
10 years ago.
joe rogan
10 years ago?
Yeah.
Was it 10 years ago?
ari shaffir
2004. Oh, no, no.
They're talking about...
I'm sorry.
joe rogan
So it's 2014 is the article.
That's fairly recently.
I don't think that's the consensus.
I don't think the consensus is that it's been debunked.
jamie vernon
The debunked part is about the cranial volume.
joe rogan
The brain size, I guess.
But not that it was a separate species.
Cranial volume is calculated to be 430 milliliters, which puts it within the range of modern human living in the same region.
They went further comparing the size of the circumference of the occipital?
Is that the word?
in that region the planet they found the measurements were indeed similar if LB1 did have Down syndrome then it would explain the short femurs as well hence when calculated statistically for normal growth they would yield a height of just over four feet which matches up with some humans living on Flores Wow hmm this is I think this is probably one of those heavily debated things but You're trying to recreate.
There's a thing called island dwarfism that happens to mammals, but the opposite takes place with lizards and reptiles.
ari shaffir
They get massive.
joe rogan
Yeah, reptiles get massive, like Komodo dragons on the island of Komodo.
ari shaffir
Those are the scariest, funnest things.
joe rogan
They're giant.
They get huge.
They're monitor lizards, really, essentially, that are enormous.
Whereas elephants that live on islands get tiny.
They have these dwarf elephants.
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Weird.
joe rogan
Yeah.
See that?
ari shaffir
Why?
Because there's less room to have to cover?
joe rogan
No, less resources.
unidentified
Oh.
joe rogan
So they adapt to the fact there's less food.
And so humans, too?
Like, look how tiny that elephant is that lives on those...
I mean, it's an elephant that's, like, shorter than you.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
And elephants...
ari shaffir
6'3".
joe rogan
Yeah.
That's, like, an elephant that's, like, my kid's height.
It happens with all sorts of different animals.
You see dwarf buffalo.
Yeah, island dwarfism.
They think it's because these animals adapt to the fact that there's a limited amount of territory.
ari shaffir
Right, they don't have to cover long distances to get to something.
joe rogan
It's fucking crazy what happens with animals, man, when they figure out what they need to do to survive.
One of the things that I was reading about really recently was these...
Fuck, I wish I had it off the top of my head.
But these moths that lived in an area where things were darker, and they changed from a light-colored moth to a black moth really quickly.
ari shaffir
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, like really quickly.
Like they did it over a couple generations.
And they're trying to figure out how the fuck this happened.
See if you can find that.
ari shaffir
A couple generations is so fast.
joe rogan
Peppered moth, yeah.
Really fast.
Like it blew them away.
They don't understand how it happened so quickly.
I think there's like, there's so little that's truly understood about what adaptive changes can possibly happen within animals.
Like for instance, there's this documentary called Relentless Enemies.
And it's all about, are you going to piss in something?
ari shaffir
I am, dude.
I need you to accept it.
It's just gonna happen.
joe rogan
What are you gonna use, though?
ari shaffir
Kombucha bottle.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
Where's the bottle?
unidentified
Right here.
ari shaffir
Oh, sorry.
joe rogan
Oh, I thought that was full.
ari shaffir
It's the widest mouth.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
You know what you should do?
You should get one of those ice bags that people use for...
Definitely don't show that.
We'll get kicked off of YouTube.
unidentified
Too much work.
joe rogan
There's ice bags that people use, like compression ice bags.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And they have a nice wide mouth.
ari shaffir
Oh, that's cool.
joe rogan
I had some of them here, but I don't want to give it to you.
God damn it.
Didn't work?
You have too much piss?
ari shaffir
Too much piss.
joe rogan
Okay, what else we got?
unidentified
There's nothing.
The cup.
Yikes.
joe rogan
Are you topping it off?
ari shaffir
Yeah, I'm topping it off.
I'll use this.
joe rogan
Why don't you just run off to the bathroom real quick and just hold onto your dick and scare Jeff?
ari shaffir
Why don't you just suck it?
joe rogan
I don't think I want to do that.
Don't piss in that cup, please.
What do you got?
What's that?
A tumbler?
Yeah, go ahead.
Piss in that.
I don't know what that's for.
Definitely take that piss out of here, though, afterwards.
ari shaffir
Y'all take it with me?
I'm not going to waste it and sell it on eBay.
I bet you could.
joe rogan
That's the thing is, I bet you could sell that piss.
ari shaffir
They're so popular now.
It's like, the piss that was on Joe Rogan's podcast.
joe rogan
This is Ari Shaffir's piss.
For real.
ari shaffir
On episode 247 of his...
joe rogan
Using witchcraft.
This is real Jew piss.
unidentified
All right.
joe rogan
Give it a shake, and let's get back to the show.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
All right.
Jamie's turned his head away.
He's afraid of dicks.
ari shaffir
Jamie, don't be afraid.
unidentified
The glory...
joe rogan
Are those me undies?
No?
ari shaffir
I believe this might be, actually.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Yeah, they are.
joe rogan
How fucking comfortable are those guys?
ari shaffir
They're the best!
They're the only, one of the only two, maybe them and Blue Apron are the only, like, no longer sponsors that I'm like, I'll still rep you guys.
joe rogan
See, what's going on with you and sponsors?
Did something happen when you said something crazy about a sponsor and they gave you a hard time?
ari shaffir
Yeah, man.
joe rogan
ZipRecruiter, was that what it was?
ari shaffir
Yeah, it's okay.
I get it.
I'm not for everybody, but then it's like, we can't work together anymore.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
I just, I can't operate under the idea that you can tell them what to say.
joe rogan
What'd they say?
Don't say something?
ari shaffir
They said it's offensive.
joe rogan
What did you say?
ari shaffir
I think it was something along the lines of if you're a human resources person and you have to hire, your time can be spent better doing something else.
You could fucking quickly hire somebody, use ZipGrid, and then spend all your time masturbating in your office.
You could bring in a Ziploc bag and keep putting used socks in there that you masturbate into.
I don't know, I'm just going off the top of my head, trying to be funny.
joe rogan
It's pretty reasonable.
ari shaffir
It's a three-minute read on a one-minute buy.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And then they're like, it's offensive.
Like, that's fine.
Alright.
But I can't be thinking about it.
I refuse to let myself think about it, so I'll just give up the money.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've had some people get pissed at me, too.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And it's fair on their part.
I get it.
I don't agree, but I get it.
That's your right.
joe rogan
Some of them are pissed at just language.
ari shaffir
Yeah, exactly.
But I'm like, that's not the way I'm going to do it.
So, we're done.
joe rogan
But that's such a foolhardy way of looking at it.
ari shaffir
I believe that too.
I believe a good sponsor read.
That one I did with Segura for Saatva Beds, where I was like him getting pegged in the ass by Christina, and he's fucking bleeding out of his ass, but his knees are oh so soft on the Saatva mattress.
It's like, dude, they got super mad.
They had to go back in and edit and take it down, which I'm like, now you're giving me more work to not pay me.
joe rogan
They said take it down?
ari shaffir
Yeah, so I had to go re-edit.
joe rogan
Why do they have the right to say take it down?
ari shaffir
Because they're like, come on, we're a family company.
But my listeners aren't family.
joe rogan
Why are you advertising on the Ari Shafir's Captain Tech if you're a family company?
ari shaffir
Exactly.
And I'm like, guys, I can give you gold once in a while if you let me be fully free.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
I can give you something that got passed around.
joe rogan
Well, I remember Burr got Naturebox pissed at him.
He goes, it's fucking healthy.
Hey, hey, have a fucking apple.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You want to eat healthy?
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Well, that goes against, like, I won't shit on the actual product.
joe rogan
He couldn't help it.
unidentified
They gave him the copy, and it's like, the healthiest snacks ever.
ari shaffir
He doesn't pre-read it.
He just, like, reads it, and it strikes bullshit with him.
He's like, nah, I know, we're done.
joe rogan
Well, there are some irrefutable sponsors.
For me, Squarespace, irrefutable, awesome product.
ari shaffir
But Squarespace always let me go do whatever I want.
joe rogan
Whatever the fuck they want.
ari shaffir
If I start saying, I wear MeUndies, they're super comfortable.
Also, when you have that last bit of cum on your dick, it'll soak them up perfectly.
They'd be like, whatever.
joe rogan
They don't care.
ari shaffir
You're talking about MeUndies, right?
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
They're not saying, how dare you?
I'd be like, hey, get the dark ones that cover up the fucking blood that comes out of your ass really well.
They'd be like, oh, you're not shitting on the product.
You're not saying it's uncomfortable, so go ahead.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's those super corporate guys.
The ones that zip recruiter, that kind of shit.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess.
And it's like, it's fine.
I make money...
By continuously focusing on free speech, and I'll lose money in some spots, and it makes money in other spots, and this is all just part of it.
joe rogan
Yeah, you can't really think about it like only looking to make money every time make more, because that universal growth paradigm, that's only for corporations.
ari shaffir
And then I'm going to be doing straight ad reads, and my listeners are going to get bored as fuck, and I'm going to lose listeners, so then I'll be able to make less money off ads in the long run because of that.
More ads, less money, as opposed to fewer ads, more money.
It's like...
joe rogan
Well, not only that, it's like, how much time do we really have left?
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, if we, if both of us live another 45 years, it would be fucking amazing.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's 45 seasons of sober Octobers.
You know?
That would be amazing if you got to 45. Oh no, dude.
ari shaffir
This is the last sober October.
I shouldn't have gotten roped into this one.
joe rogan
Are you done because of the contest or are you done because of the sobriety aspect?
ari shaffir
Can we do it in January?
joe rogan
Why January?
ari shaffir
October is the best drinking month in New York.
joe rogan
We could definitely do it in January, but New Year's Eve.
ari shaffir
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
unidentified
Or February.
ari shaffir
It's my birthday.
joe rogan
It's January 2nd.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because technically, after midnight, you'd still be fucked up.
ari shaffir
November?
I wouldn't mind November.
joe rogan
Yeah, no booze November.
ari shaffir
No booze November.
joe rogan
What are you about in Thanksgiving?
You have a little turkey, you want a nice glass of wine.
ari shaffir
Honestly, though, Thanksgiving, the memories you have for Thanksgiving, childhood, they're not alcohol-based.
joe rogan
No?
ari shaffir
Not really.
You might want some, but what you really want is, if you said, no stuffing, you'd be like, hold on, that's part of it.
But no alcohol on Thanksgiving, that's not a big deal.
joe rogan
What about March?
ari shaffir
March is okay.
joe rogan
More sober March.
ari shaffir
Sure, that's okay too.
joe rogan
March is a bullshit month.
What the fuck goes on in March?
ari shaffir
March is a bullshit month.
joe rogan
March madness.
unidentified
St. Patrick's Day.
joe rogan
St. Patrick's Day is March?
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Yeah, it is.
But I'm not Irish.
joe rogan
I mean, I'm barely Irish.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like a quarter Irish.
unidentified
Spring break also happens.
joe rogan
Spring break.
ari shaffir
Yeah, guess what?
We don't have that anymore.
joe rogan
That'd be a big deal.
You have family guys.
ari shaffir
There's always a reason, but October's a wonderful month.
All the NYU kids have calmed down and gone to classes, so you can actually, the city's back to yours again.
It's amazing.
And it's like, it's fucking hard.
I pass by bars, I'm like, I want to fucking go, I want to go with Jay, and be like, let's go to a fucking neighborhood bar!
It's fucking awful.
joe rogan
Couple days away, buddy.
We're only, we have ten days left.
Now what's really important is that we beat Burt.
ari shaffir
For sure.
joe rogan
I don't care if you win, I don't care if Tom wins.
ari shaffir
As long as Burt loses.
joe rogan
As long as Burt loses.
ari shaffir
Can I tell you, can we talk about drugs at the UFC for a little bit?
joe rogan
Sure.
ari shaffir
So, with Diaz always bringing the breast strips, There'd be this time where it wouldn't kick in, it wouldn't kick in, you'd look over, you're feeling it, you'd be like, ah, maybe, sort of.
Or one of those Jolly Ranchers that they'd have.
I remember having a side, I remember eating a Jolly Rancher, like, before the fight started, because I would get in so early with you.
And just like, just kind of sucking a lot, like this.
And some other guy, nobody knew me back then, and was like, dude, I think somebody's smoking weed.
I was like, yeah, might be coming from somewhere, huh?
joe rogan
You smell the weed from the Jolly Ranchers.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
Yeah, and nobody could comprehend back then that it could be coming up from your Jolly Rancher.
It's only from Smokeable.
joe rogan
This is like 2003. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Mm-hmm.
And then you look over.
You're feeling it?
Sort of.
And then you look over again, and Diaz is just like in a trance.
And you realize you are too.
And you both look, and Diaz is going...
And you know he brought the devil in you.
And it was just fucking great.
I mean, I've talked about this on This Is Not Happening stories where it's like you don't even know who's winning fights.
You just know you're enjoying watching them.
joe rogan
You guys did acid at one of the UFC events.
ari shaffir
Back when we were sitting with Kilstein and we didn't tell him.
Red Band knew.
And just doing acid.
I remember how into it you were.
That part of me is you never quite know how people are going to react to things until you really know them.
And it could have gone like, dude, it's my place of work.
You can't, you know?
Just a small part of you thinks maybe.
But then you're texting us while you're in the fights.
Where are you guys?
Where are you guys sitting?
It wasn't one of those we got bottom floor.
We were in the fucking stands for that one.
And you kept looking at us until you found us.
unidentified
And you were like, you're doing acid!
ari shaffir
This is so great!
Oh man, I've never seen stuff so clearly.
I remember Forrest Griffin coming in with Shipping Up to Boston playing and everyone cheering.
And I was like, this is the Colosseum.
We're watching what it was like in the Colosseum for people fighting lions.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Everyone's cheering for blood.
How are we different than the Romans?
joe rogan
Pretty fucking similar in a lot of ways.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just a modern, more acceptable version of it.
ari shaffir
Oh, that acid at the UFC was so fucking good.
It was great.
You didn't want any food.
Red Bank sort of took care of you a little bit.
He was like, I'll have some of the fucking Andy Dolores cookies.
joe rogan
Yeah, we've done...
I mean, I went to a bunch of events outside of the UFC where we got really fucked up on Edibles.
ari shaffir
We went to that one at the Playboy Mansion.
joe rogan
Yeah, Strikeforce.
ari shaffir
Yeah, we got fucked on those.
joe rogan
We got blasted in that one.
ari shaffir
Yeah, that was fun.
joe rogan
But I missed out on a lot of that.
Like, you guys sitting there in the audience had a lot more fun than me.
ari shaffir
Six hours.
Of fucking greatness.
So you take him early, and by the very end, it's like you're just coming down, and it's like, let's go eat these steaks!
Joe Rogan's buying again!
Let's go!
There was one in Calgary where it fell on Shroomfest, and it was with Duncan.
And I was like, hey, I got us mushrooms.
And he goes, oh, I don't want to take mushrooms right now.
And I was like, oh, okay, I'll just throw them out.
To get the mushrooms I had for you, I'll throw them out.
I'll step on them on the ground and throw them out.
He goes, all right, relax.
unidentified
I'll take the mushrooms.
ari shaffir
And, man, it was so fun there because, like, you would take them.
You'd get bored to some wrestling fight, you know, where it's like they're trying to outpoint each other.
And you're like, let's go wander.
And you just go wander.
You go get a hot dog.
We put them into a Maynard's, which is like Jolly Rancher, like gummy, whatever.
We'd stick them in there.
So you could reach for either a Maynard or you reach in there and you feel something crunchy like a stick.
And you're like, okay, I'm going for that.
And we just keep eating these mushrooms.
Some random dudes were like, hey...
You want to come fucking to our skybox?
And so we went to some skybox for a while.
And so we got kicked out by security.
And that was fun.
I'm like, thanks guys, you're great.
Fucking giant pupils.
I saw a fucking security guard in Calgary as we were going in and already tripping and trying to smuggle these mushrooms in there.
And this guy goes, hey man, happy Shroomfest.
And I was like, okay, you're being cool about it.
Like, you know about it and you're letting me go.
Like, thank you very much, security officer.
joe rogan
Wow, security guard knew about Shroomfest.
ari shaffir
This was like a cop.
One of those that they hire there.
Calgary was fun.
joe rogan
Calgary's great.
ari shaffir
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
Great city.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
Doing that.
Doing the edibles.
I remember Alex Jones being there once and Diaz giving him a cookie.
That's right.
He goes, hey, this cookie.
Yeah.
And Alex Jones is like, what's in the cookie?
And Diaz goes, eat the fucking cookie!
Like, what kind of stupid question is that?
You know what's in there.
joe rogan
We went to eat with him afterwards.
He was barbecued.
unidentified
Barbecued.
joe rogan
He was so much more reasonable back then.
He was a different guy.
ari shaffir
I never understood...
How they made him from crazy conspiracy theorist to alt-rightist.
I didn't get the connection there.
joe rogan
Well, that connection happened when he became united with, like, Alex Jones became united with Donald Trump, right?
Because he was a big part of Donald Trump in the campaign days.
ari shaffir
In what way?
joe rogan
Donald Trump would call in.
He would call into Infowars.
And he knew that Alex Jones had a big base and Alex Jones would help him get elected.
You know, Donald Trump was very clever in who he aligns himself with.
Like, when you see him standing there Listening to Kanye West, where Kanye West is ranting and saying all this crazy fucking schizo nonsense, and he's like this, hmm, that's a smart cookie.
Like, he's very smart in when he calls bullshit and when he doesn't call bullshit.
ari shaffir
He chooses to call bullshit.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's like, imagine if Kanye West was debating him, and they were doing a presidential debate, and Kanye was talking like that.
He'd be like, what the fuck is this guy saying?
ari shaffir
Exactly.
unidentified
What are you saying?
ari shaffir
He's like, I think you've given up for me, so I'll let you talk.
joe rogan
Yeah.
He's aligning himself with a super popular guy.
ari shaffir
I just don't get how Alex Jones went to that, though.
So that's what it was?
Because he would have him on a bunch?
joe rogan
Well, you know, also, alt-right wasn't a thing back then.
You've got to realize, when Alex came with us to the fights, there was no alt-right.
ari shaffir
But he was more like lizard people, or like, oh, it's a fucking government conspiracy.
joe rogan
Yeah, he was all about...
ari shaffir
Don't get him started on 9-11.
joe rogan
Yeah, he was all about certain conspiracies.
ari shaffir
I remember we were in Austin once when there was a shooting at an army base.
joe rogan
We were there right with him when the thing happened.
We were at a bar.
Remember that?
ari shaffir
And he goes, I guarantee you, they're not taking that guy alive.
I guarantee they won't let him talk.
And then an hour later, like, they got him alive.
They shot him in the leg and they got him alive.
He goes, yeah, of course they got him alive because they want him to be a fucking martyr for this thing.
And it's like, or whatever.
joe rogan
I don't want him to be a martyr, right?
ari shaffir
Yeah, and it's like...
No matter what, he's just, I'm spinning this to conspiracy.
And then I just...
joe rogan
That business is a tricky business.
ari shaffir
I just don't...
How they said, like, now you've got to be off the air now.
joe rogan
It's like...
Well, that's where it's fucked up.
ari shaffir
Just a lizard person guy.
joe rogan
Well, it's not, though, because, like, people were concerned that...
You're giving out bad information, right?
And they're concerned about it.
But then, with Alex, what came out was the Sandy Hook thing.
The Sandy Hook denial thing.
ari shaffir
Again, conspiracy.
I don't get why that's...
joe rogan
Right, but it was a conspiracy involving children being murdered.
And their parents being actors.
And that everyone was some sort of a crisis actor.
And they were hired by the government to take away people's guns.
This is the most radical version of conspiracy.
unidentified
Sure.
ari shaffir
I understand.
And I understand that's wrong and crazy.
joe rogan
Mm-hmm.
ari shaffir
Where do you get from there to you can't be allowed to say these – you've been saying these made-up things before.
You're saying it still.
I don't get why it's a hate monger.
joe rogan
You've got a really good argument, but here's the argument.
The argument is, what is Facebook?
What is Twitter?
What is YouTube?
Are they private companies, or even more so, are they utilities?
Is it like the electricity?
Is it like a phone?
Should you be allowed to tell someone they can't use it?
ari shaffir
I wonder if Jack said, hey, I'm shutting down Twitter.
If the government's like, we're opening it back up again.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Or is it like NBC? Because if NBC is a private company and Ari Shaffir says, hey, the lizard people are eating kids and that's who runs 60 Minutes.
And they say, no, no, no, Ari, you're fired.
Look, Roseanne made one fucking bad ambient joke and they canceled her and they kicked her off of the Roseanne show.
ari shaffir
They were looking to get rid of her for any other reason.
unidentified
They weren't.
ari shaffir
They were.
joe rogan
They weren't.
ari shaffir
That's not true.
joe rogan
Why do you say that?
The show was a huge hit.
ari shaffir
Because of the outrage over the first season when she was like, she supports Trump.
joe rogan
Yeah, but the show was a giant hit.
ari shaffir
But they were looking to get rid of her.
This whole group was already saying, we want you out, we're looking for an excuse.
Kind of like when they got rid of you at the comedy store over filming, when it was like, come on, they already wanted to get rid of you.
And then they found an excuse to get it done.
joe rogan
Hmm, that's a tricky argument.
ari shaffir
They wanted her out so bad.
joe rogan
I don't think they wanted her out.
I think they wanted to minimize her.
The left hated her.
That's true.
But she was telling me how they were changing the way they were writing things, and they weren't including her in the process, where she was very much included in the process during the first season.
When they were writing for the second season, they were basically excluding her from the process of premises and the way they were writing the show.
ari shaffir
I mean, I read all the outrage about early on.
It's like, you're a Trump supporter.
And I saw someone like Ray Sani, some young female comedian, going like, when Silverman was like, hey, watch my friend's show, Roseanne.
She's great.
Great show.
And she goes, oh, this is the bitch I gotta be fake with at a party and kiss her on the cheek, pretend I'm cool with her.
And it's like, what is all this outrage over this pro-Trump thing?
And I finally, I'm like, let me go watch it.
And my friend, Jewish female leftist Morgan Murphy, who wrote it, I talked to her later about it, but I finally watched it, and it's just 12 characters in the show.
Ten of them don't talk about who they voted for at all.
One of them is pro-Trump.
One of them is anti-Trump.
There's also a little trans kid on there.
And that's it.
Just one pro-Trump, one anti-Trump.
And the outrage that I saw was almost like, I don't think you guys could have possibly watched this episode.
I think you're all reading headlines about stories.
And that's what I talked to Morgan about.
I'm like, it doesn't seem like it could have come from the actual facts.
joe rogan
Yeah.
There's a lot of that going on, right?
ari shaffir
Yeah, and so I feel like it's the same thing with Alex Jones when I'm getting hate monger.
I'm like, what?
Alex Jones?
Just crazy conspiracy guy.
joe rogan
Most of it, yeah.
ari shaffir
Where's hate monger?
joe rogan
Well, yeah.
ari shaffir
Did he talk about taking away trans rights or anything like that?
unidentified
No, no, no.
joe rogan
There was some talk.
There was some talk, Alex Jones was saying, in one of the last final straws, it was talking about people taking up arms and that people are not going to stand it.
It's basically rabble-rousing, which is a lot of what people do.
They're talking about the other side trying to take away your rights, trying to take away your guns.
We're not going to stand for it.
People are going to get shot.
That kind of talk.
I mean, I don't know specifically what he said, but there's a problem that you don't know specifically, right?
There's a problem that they can just decide that you represent a certain faction of thought, and that this should be eliminated from, you should be de-platformed.
ari shaffir
De-platformed for a conspiracy guy, and people are going up to those parents and saying, like, your kid's not dead.
joe rogan
That's a real issue.
ari shaffir
Yeah, but it's like, he's not calling for that.
That's what they're doing on their own.
Somebody shot two cops in New York because of the Black Lives Matter movement.
You don't shut down the Black Lives Matter movement over that.
They weren't asking for them to shoot cops.
Someone did that on their own.
He wasn't asking for them to do that.
joe rogan
No, he wasn't.
ari shaffir
So, like, I don't see how you de-platford.
The only great article I've read was by a trans woman who said, when I hear crazy shit like that, I feel like you're supposed to roll your eyes and then walk away.
You don't say, hey, you need to get gone.
joe rogan
Well...
ari shaffir
De-platforming people, that's a good way to put it.
joe rogan
That is what they're saying.
And it's also, it seemed like it was a universal de-platforming, because Twitter was one of the last places that kept him on.
And then they decided that they were going to remove him, but I didn't see anything specifically...
ari shaffir
Yeah, like they have some rules, like when they got...
Who's the woman?
Rose McGowan.
And then she was talking about a rape.
And people were like, how dare you?
She outed a rape and then you deplatformed her from that or you took her down from that.
And then that was the story.
That was the headline.
Everyone's like, how dare you, Jack?
Is that the guy from Twitter?
joe rogan
Jack Dorsey.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
How dare you?
And then he actually responded.
He goes, oh, no, no.
She docked somebody.
She gave somebody's information about where they live and stuff like that, and we already had that rule.
You can't do that.
Nothing to do with why she doxed him.
It was just over that.
joe rogan
Why don't you Google what exactly got Alex Jones kicked off Twitter?
Because Twitter was one of the last platforms.
And then they can say hate speech, and hate speech is one of those weird, broad terms.
ari shaffir
It's like, I hate you.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Okay.
I mean, I really am like, I don't, I think people are forgetting how the ACLU defended the Klan members.
Because the free speech is too big a fucking issue to worry about how I feel about what they're saying.
joe rogan
Well, you know what's really interesting is that left-leaning people, the leftists are the ones that want to censor and de-platform and silence people on the right.
ari shaffir
It is.
It's also both.
I think we see the left more because we're in that bubble.
I think the right is doing it, too.
We're not friends with them.
joe rogan
How are the white doing it?
They have no power in technology.
The tech companies, whether it's Facebook, Google, Twitter, they're all left.
And they're the ones who have the...
I mean, this is where it's weird, right?
It's because nobody saw this coming.
It was media, like you had Fox News, you had NBC, you had your left and you had your right.
More left than right, of sure.
But there was power in the Fox News faction.
They had their voice.
But when it comes to technology, there's not really an equivalent or commensurate company.
It's all left.
It's all left.
There's not one right-leaning, large social media platform.
They don't exist.
ari shaffir
It should just stay out of it.
But I get why then you get a Reddit situation where it's like, okay, but suddenly it devolved into just child porn.
joe rogan
Well, Reddit, the problem with Reddit is anonymity.
When you give people anonymity, and one guy actually lost his job because of it, because somebody decided, hey, this guy's such a fucking creep piece of shit.
Let's find out who the fuck he is.
And they got his IP, and then they figured out who he was.
And then he was like some guy who was a dad.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
He was like some regular guy with a job.
And they got him fired, and, you know, he had a bunch of weird, you know, I saw Holtzman as people running out of the room yesterday or two days ago.
ari shaffir
He got a full room randomly at the end of the night.
Yeah, he spent his first three minutes like, there's too many people.
I don't know what to do.
I never get in front of this many people.
Like, he couldn't handle it.
And then he starts going, they start leaving, and he starts getting angrier and more into his pocket, you know, into where he belongs.
And then as people are leaving, like, he's talking about child fucking and stuff like that.
And he goes, hey guys, peek behind the curtain.
I didn't fuck a baby.
Just so you know, there were no babies fucked.
So calm down.
joe rogan
Well, people don't want to hear about that subject.
unidentified
Right.
ari shaffir
And that's fair.
joe rogan
Yeah.
They come to the comedy store to hear some wonderful jokes about people losing socks in the dryer.
unidentified
Right.
ari shaffir
So actually, honestly, walking out is a fine response.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Saying he can't go up anymore is not a fine response.
joe rogan
It's a different response.
Yeah.
And saying you're going to boycott the comedy store because they don't do your kind of comedy.
ari shaffir
And if you want to boycott them, that's also okay.
But just trying to get other people to...
All right.
joe rogan
But this is a problem in that there's no balance, right?
If people are just right-leaning and people want to de-platform them because they have right-leaning beliefs, right-leaning ideas, like say if they support President Trump.
I mean, he is the president.
Whether you like it or not, that guy's the president.
And whether you like his policies or not, they are his policies.
He's the president of the United States.
And if someone supports that, deplatforming people who support him or support that is not the right response.
The right response is a well-worded argument that is against that, that is convincingly articulate to the point where you make an argument that this is a terrible policy, a terrible idea, and an objective fence that is convincingly articulate to the point where you make an argument that this is a terrible policy, a terrible idea, "Okay, this guy's got a good point on the left." I want to hear both sides, but I need to hear that side in order to hear the alternative side.
ari shaffir
Like Dave Smith, who hates all politicians pretty much.
He's pointing out these like separating their kids from their parents thing.
And he's like, it's gotten real bad with Trump now.
And he goes, okay, that's true.
But look at the picture they're using on the bottom right hand corner.
There's a date stamp on it and it's 2014. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of shenanigans with photographs.
So, like, your anger is not even who you...
So, you can't even bring that up?
joe rogan
That's just shit journalism is what that is.
And online journalism...
Look, journalists are fucking fighting for their lives right now.
unidentified
They're bad.
ari shaffir
Their state of journalism is terrible.
joe rogan
It's terrible.
And it's also, there's no money in it.
The problem is nobody wants to buy newspapers, nobody wants to buy magazines, and it's really hard for online journalism to not resort to clickbait.
ari shaffir
Anger shit.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, that's literally how they make their living now is clickbait shit.
And so, you know, they have a photo.
This is with the stock photo.
We got a little fucking kid who's crying and he's standing in front of a border patrol guy.
Throw it up.
Use it.
This is what we got.
The story's real.
The photo's not.
It's shit journalism.
ari shaffir
I think it really comes down to like when you see like a Norm Macdonald where he's like, okay, I haven't done anything to anybody wrong.
I just want to look with compassion on another human.
I'm like, these are friends of mine, the people I know.
joe rogan
Be specific what you're saying about Norm Macdonald.
ari shaffir
Well, he said, like, Roseanne and Louis, and, like, they've lost everything in a day, and people don't really understand what it's like.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
And I would like to see these friends, human beings, friends of mine, come out with a way.
And he goes, honestly, I don't think Roseanne knew that lady was black.
I don't think she makes that comment.
And then people go, fuck you.
Your tonight's show appearance is canceled.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And it's like, well, I didn't even do anything.
Me and Norm MacDonald didn't do anything.
Instead of taking that opportunity to go, hey, let's hear him out.
Maybe you can clarify what you mean.
Right.
Even say, no, I didn't mean it that way.
joe rogan
They de-platformed him.
ari shaffir
They de-platformed him because these women or people, I don't really know who they were, at The Tonight Show had their opportunity to fall on their sword.
And they go, now we get to stand up for women's rights.
We get to stand up for racial rights.
joe rogan
Well, the way to stand up for it goes to debate him.
ari shaffir
What did you mean by that exactly?
And then to clarify his position, to now show, oh, I'm on your side, but people don't want that.
They're more interested in punishment.
joe rogan
Yes.
ari shaffir
And so now you're punishing people who are on your side, so you can feel right.
At the Comedy Cellar, a waitress was traveling to fucking work wearing her Comedy Cellar t-shirt after Louis came back.
And somebody said, hey, headphones, take your headphones out.
She did.
She goes, what?
And they go, shame on you.
To some waitress, who, by the way, is not in charge of him coming back.
joe rogan
There's a guy or a girl that said, shame on you.
ari shaffir
Don't know.
I think a woman.
Not sure.
But this waitress might have been heavily against him coming back.
But there's no research done.
It's just like, I get my chance to show that I've stuck up for somebody.
Instead of ruining some other woman's day who might be on your side.
They stuck a finger in Val's face after he came back and goes, fuck you.
Val's one of the managers of the cellar.
And it's like, so here's a fellow woman who hasn't done anything wrong.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
And you're cursing her out so you can feel like I've done something for the cause.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, this is something that the left does.
That the right doesn't do.
The left attacks its own.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
And they attack its own.
ari shaffir
They attacked Tina Fey once.
Said you're anti-feminist.
And she was like, you're out of your fucking mind.
joe rogan
About what?
ari shaffir
Five, six years ago.
I don't remember.
And she goes, you're out of your mind.
I'm your leader.
I'm on your side.
You're attacking me for being anti-feminist?
You're out of your fucking mind.
They eat their own.
They have bloodlust and they know how to control it.
You're not trained in fucking fighting.
joe rogan
Well, they're always looking for targets.
They're always looking for targets.
And in finding and establishing a target, you clearly establish that you're better and more virtuous than that person because you find offense in something that they do.
They're not progressive enough and they're a part of the problem.
And so you cast them out or you shut them down or you de-platform them.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
So I think with Alex Jones, they go, they pointed to that one a lot.
They're like, dude, he said fucking Sandy Hook didn't happen.
And it's like, Okay, I'm not saying...
You try to now, I guess, strawman me into saying I'm saying that's okay or that's right.
I'm not saying that's right.
I just don't see the connection to this.
I don't see the connection to Michael Vick killing dogs, which I'm not on the side of, to you shouldn't play football.
You haven't made that connection to me.
And you're like, oh, you're saying it's okay to kill dogs?
No.
Just why is that job not allowed to do?
joe rogan
The connection would be if you have a private company...
This is where it all boils down to.
Like, do you have a right to use their platform?
So you're not taking Alex Jones off the internet, right?
Alex Jones still has his website on the internet.
But if you have, if Ari Shafir.com all of a sudden becomes Twitter, right?
unidentified
Okay.
ari shaffir
There's a separate thing, though.
Private company, are they allowed?
And private company, should you be doing that?
joe rogan
Should you be doing that?
ari shaffir
And it's like, what the laws are.
I agree with only a portion of the laws.
joe rogan
Do you think that this is in response to the type of shit that has happened at Reddit?
That Reddit has gotten so fucking out there in so many different ways.
Especially the Trump section of Reddit.
ari shaffir
Let them be there.
They're not doing anything to anybody.
They're not planning a tax.
joe rogan
But people who, if you say, if you own that company and you were one of the people that was responsible for trying to sell ads for Twitter or for whatever, I don't think Twitter has ads, but if you had, like, established guidelines of what you could and couldn't say, One of those things would probably be no hate speech, no racism, no this, no that, but you can't promote false conspiracy theories that hurt other people, right?
You could get away with saying that.
ari shaffir
Right.
So it's not about...
So it's kind of like the Rose McGowan thing where it's like, oh, no, it's not about...
You just can't dox anybody.
joe rogan
What is this, Jamie?
jamie vernon
This is from an NPR interview with a Washington Post reporter about why he...
joe rogan
Let's read this.
It says, They said one thing that weighed very heavily on them was the way that Jones conducted himself outside of a congressional hearing where Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey was testifying about the way the company moderates content online.
Jones essentially went after Republican Senator Marco Rubio, interrupted one of his press conferences.
He yelled at Dorsey at one point as he was trying to leave the building.
And then he live-streamed the incident where he was attacking a CNN reporter, hurling verbal insults at him.
The video was broadcast on Periscope, which is the live streaming site owned by Twitter.
And so in the minds of the company, it essentially was too much.
He had gone too far, and so they kicked him off the site.
ari shaffir
Yeah, I mean, I guess if you're talking about your right, it's like, sure, I guess it's their right, but I disagree with them doing it.
I would like a world where you're like, we don't...
Unless it's physical harm to someone, possibly monetary, like direct monetary harm, like I'm stealing from you, infringes on your rights, then do what you want.
Say what you want.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
It doesn't infringe on your rights, then keep going.
joe rogan
Well, the problem becomes who's to decide...
What is hate speech?
ari shaffir
Exactly.
So it's like we don't decide that.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And who's to decide?
ari shaffir
Is saying retard in a Tom Segura special hate speech?
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
It's such a slippery slope that the only way to do it is if you infringe on someone's right, you've gone too far.
If you haven't, you have not.
It's yelling fire in a crowded theater.
It's free speech until someone is getting hurt from this, or it's very possible they will.
You can see why they would.
Not just like, it might hurt their feelings.
It might make it harder for them to be a kid in this world.
It's like, no.
joe rogan
Yeah.
No, I agree.
But I also agree that if you're NBC or ABC or CBS and someone says things that you feel violate your company's policies, right?
So if someone promotes some outlandish conspiracy theory about children that get shot in Parkland, really never died, and their parents are all crisis actors paid by the CIA, it's a PSYOP, And, you know, this person is on CBS. Okay.
You could fire them.
ari shaffir
Okay, sure.
joe rogan
Here's the question.
But let me finish here.
So is Twitter like CBS? Because they're both private companies.
And are the people who are on broadcasting on Periscope and on YouTube, are they essentially someone who is – I mean, are you working with or for YouTube if you're broadcasting on YouTube?
I mean, how do you look at it?
ari shaffir
I think it's a private thing.
I think if you're making a video on how to make a bomb...
I think the authorities should get in there.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
So you can't do that.
joe rogan
But what if you're making a video about how there's some people out there that are lying about their children being shot?
ari shaffir
Same thing.
Get the authorities in if you think it's leading to harm.
But it's not the company to do it.
joe rogan
So you don't think you should be allowed, if you're YouTube, you don't think you should be allowed to tell someone, hey, you say a bunch of shit that's not true and it hurts people.
ari shaffir
What's the word hurt mean?
joe rogan
Well, okay, if your children were murdered, and there's some guy screaming on YouTube that you're a crisis actor, and nothing ever happened to your kid, and your kids, it's a lie, and there's rubber kids on the ground with fake blood, and they can prove it with a hologram, you shouldn't be able to remove them from your platform?
ari shaffir
Do you remember, um, what's his name?
From, um...
joe rogan
And by the way, I'm not arguing one way or the other.
But this is important for people online to understand.
ari shaffir
Do you remember the Kansas pastor?
What's his name?
He died.
joe rogan
Kansas pastor.
ari shaffir
We talked about it on the radio once.
The Baptist church.
Something Baptist church.
And he would go to funerals of...
joe rogan
Oh, Phelps.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
And he would go there and say, the reason your son died is because gays are around.
And he'd ruin people's funerals of a child.
joe rogan
Godhatesfags.com.
ari shaffir
And these weren't gay soldiers.
It was just soldiers.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
It's horrible.
And then other people had to do things like create a blockade around their cars and say, give us tickets.
We'll eventually move, but the funeral will be over.
Yeah, man.
That's sucky behavior.
You can't stop it from doing it.
joe rogan
Okay.
You can't stop it in terms of public discourse.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
So go to CBS and say that and say like, well, we can take you down because you've said things that are totally untrue.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
What about the guy who gets caught smoking weed in Iowa's legal state in Alabama?
Could you fire him for that?
joe rogan
Yeah, but that's a different thing.
ari shaffir
Well, it goes against what we think is okay.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's a slippery slope.
ari shaffir
I mean, if you're saying, are you allowed legally?
Yes, of course.
But morally, no.
I think you're a fucking platform for speech.
So let all the speech in.
And 4chan got written up as this fucking hateful place where really they're just trolls.
And they know one of the best ways to troll is using Donald Trump.
joe rogan
Well, you know, there was a really interesting case with 4chan that I found preposterous where they trolled Shia LaBeouf.
ari shaffir
Oh, yeah.
You know, they took down that podcast.
joe rogan
Yes, we talked about it.
ari shaffir
I listened to it.
It was great.
joe rogan
It was hilarious.
ari shaffir
And people go, how dare you promote 4chan?
They're a hate group.
And you're like, you didn't listen.
joe rogan
Yeah, you didn't listen at all.
ari shaffir
We've just said that they're not a hate group.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And you're like, fuck you.
I don't like that interpretation.
Fuck you, Norm MacDonald.
I like the interpretation.
She did know that lady was black.
joe rogan
Okay, you went real far with that.
ari shaffir
So they're saying, fuck you, you can't say Roseanne wasn't racist.
He's not saying racism's okay.
He goes, Norm is saying, I don't think she knew that lady was black.
joe rogan
I agree with you.
ari shaffir
4chan is not saying pro-Trump, fuck all of you.
4chan is saying, this will fuck with you.
Let's fuck with you.
joe rogan
Well, they're saying fuck Shia LaBeouf because he's a goof.
And they decided to use science, and they literally studied the stars in the sky above the flag.
ari shaffir
Oh, it was amazing.
Amazing trolls.
joe rogan
They had someone drive around and beep their horn so they could triangulate the area where this was taking place.
ari shaffir
See where the airplanes were going overhead.
joe rogan
Took the fucking flag down and went, fuck Shiloh.
ari shaffir
In a day.
They found it somewhere in the world.
joe rogan
And the podcast was great.
And there was no hate involved.
It had nothing to do with political ideology.
It had nothing to do with racism and nothing to do with hate.
And people were saying, oh, you're supporting 4chan?
You know, 4chan supports Hitler.
No, listen, 4chan is just a bunch of people.
ari shaffir
And it's like, yeah, they've just said in that podcast that 4chan does not support Hitler.
They go, Trump will fuck with people.
Let's align that with some fucking weird frog for no reason.
It makes no sense.
unidentified
Right.
ari shaffir
And that's now explained to me where that frog thing came from.
And I'm like, oh, you just pulled a random thing out.
joe rogan
Well, most of that frog thing was fun.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
And there was a few instances of that frog which were racist or KKK versions or Nazi versions.
And then people decided that whole frog is racist.
ari shaffir
But the swastikas used all over Indonesia as a good luck sign.
joe rogan
Different case.
The vast majority of the use of that frog was not racist.
The vast majority was feels bad, man.
Right.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It was silly.
ari shaffir
Trolling.
joe rogan
It was just being silly.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And then there was...
Look, you can't...
ari shaffir
And it's okay.
joe rogan
You can't let people co-opt a frog.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
You know?
ari shaffir
And NPR... I think it was NPR podcast.
It might have been...
I'm not sure what the company was.
They were like, yeah, we'll take it down.
You can still have it.
It's still on YouTube.
joe rogan
It was Radiolab.
ari shaffir
Radiolab.
Okay.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And they're like, sorry about that.
We'll take it down.
joe rogan
Is it still on YouTube?
unidentified
No.
ari shaffir
I just heard it.
joe rogan
Well, I downloaded it.
And then when I went to send people to it, I found out on the show, on the podcast, that it had been taken down.
And I was like, you gotta be fucking kidding me.
ari shaffir
I think the iTunes version is down, but you can still get it other places.
But for them to apologize is me saying, okay, you're weak.
You're allowed to take that down.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
But for someone else to come in and say, you can't make podcasts anymore.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
Is like really dangerous.
joe rogan
Good point.
And that could have happened from that if someone had said, no, we're not going to take it down.
ari shaffir
Radio Lab is now a hate monger.
joe rogan
Right, exactly.
They support 4chan, 4chan supports Hitler, Radiolab supports Hitler.
I mean, this is a circular logic.
ari shaffir
Yeah, so the only answer is, you have to have a strong line, unless it's causing direct physical damage to someone, Everything's allowed.
The internet's a horrible place.
joe rogan
It's a great place, too, though.
They should have never fucking taken that down.
unidentified
Nope.
ari shaffir
They should have been like, you guys are wrong, you need to listen to it.
It made me laugh so hard how they trolled him, how they got together in a trolling...
joe rogan
And they used science.
They used logic.
These are smart fucking people that figured out where that flag was.
ari shaffir
Fuck you Shia LaBeouf.
joe rogan
I mean, it's hilarious.
It was such a good podcast.
But meanwhile, by the way, me talking about it, people are like, I can't believe you don't get it.
You always have all these white supremacists on.
Are you alt-right?
Are you this?
I mean, every day people will tweet at me with stupid shit like that.
And that one podcast, me saying how great that podcast was in particular, people saying, what the fuck is wrong with Joe Rogan?
You know, I used to think he was a good guy.
Now I think he's a white supremacist or he's a fucking racist.
He's a KKK person.
It's so stupid.
ari shaffir
One of my favorite books, maybe my favorite, I don't like to use that word favorite, but like The Fountainhead.
It's Ayn Rand.
People go like, oh, she's a socialist, just so you know.
You know, she took fucking Social Security in her old age.
She never did.
And I'm like, okay, okay.
And I used to shit on Ayn Randall all the time myself.
And then I realized I've actually never read a book.
Read The Fountainhead, and it changed my life.
Like, not even a little bit.
It's the direction of my career.
How so?
It freed me as an artist.
joe rogan
How so?
ari shaffir
You gotta read it, bro, but it's all about how...
joe rogan
I read a chapter of it like 15 years ago.
ari shaffir
It took me a year and a half to read.
Every chapter, I'd sit down and I'd think about it for two weeks, what I read.
And Jordan Peterson talks about her as a philosopher.
He doesn't like her.
As a novelist, he's like, she's great.
It shows you a true artist and it shows you a jobber.
joe rogan
A jobber?
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like pro wrestling style?
ari shaffir
Sort of.
Someone who's just doing it for the money.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
ari shaffir
As opposed to a pure...
Like Abby Martin?
Abby Harris?
What's her name?
joe rogan
Which one?
ari shaffir
The journalist?
joe rogan
Abby Martin.
ari shaffir
Abby Martin.
She's like, oh, I don't want to just take money for reporting.
I want to actually really report now.
joe rogan
Yes.
ari shaffir
So she's kind of a true artist, at least in that moment.
And none of us can be a fully true artist.
And none of us are really just full jobbers.
We all have a little bit of artistic taste.
Even the jobbers have the fucking little bit of like, I want to do something interesting.
You know?
And the full artist, it's just, it's almost an impossible 100% ideal.
But if you can only aim for that, If a sponsor says we need you to fucking tone it down, to realize like, oh fuck, I just gave up another four grand.
Nah, sorry, I can't use you anymore.
God damn it, I hate this.
joe rogan
That's what fuck you money is all about.
ari shaffir
Sort of, yeah.
But this guy didn't have fuck you money.
joe rogan
In the fountain.
ari shaffir
This guy's like, I'll go back to open mics.
I'll go back to open mics.
You can't take away my ability to freely do this.
No matter what.
So it freed me in terms of being able to think that way.
It was really, really informative to me.
But if I just heard these people going, fuck her, she's a socialist, and then you read it like, oh, I'm not getting what you're saying out of this.
I'm missing this amazing stuff.
So the people who just go, fuck you, 4chan is hate mongers, you're not even listening to what they're actually doing.
joe rogan
Well, as soon as you eliminate nuance and you have reductionist ideology, you just want to reduce something to, oh, he's racist, oh, he's hateful, oh, he's this, he's that.
That's where ideas go to die.
Because you eliminate what it is to be a human.
What it is to be a human is to be constantly conflicted, to deal with a bunch of different contrary ideas bouncing around your head, left and right, all the time.
If you want to eliminate the ability to talk to people that you don't agree with, boy, you're living in a fucking bizarre bubble because you're not going to agree with yourself five years from now, most likely.
I mean, if I had an argument today with myself 15 years ago, I'd be like, man, you're a fucking dumbass.
You need to stop thinking this way.
You need to stop doing this.
You need to look at yourself more objectively.
ari shaffir
I would argue with myself.
Can I just tell you why I think that?
I mean, the fact that we're so divisive, but like, No one listens to the other side.
I'll give the easiest argument to me is abortion, where it's like, well, both sides are pro-life.
The idea of life.
And both sides are also pro-choice.
No one's against choice.
But you're not hearing the other side.
So one side is saying, it's a woman's right to choose.
It's her body.
It's her choice.
It's like, okay, but yes, it's her body.
But it ain't a tattoo.
You know there's more to it than just her body.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
And then the other side, it's like, it's a human life.
Like, okay, yes, it's a life.
But also, this chick has to carry it for nine months.
She's got to change her whole body in order to carry it.
It's not just simply, it's a life.
It's not like they're going in and murdering babies.
It's in a human life.
So can you guys actually talk Can you guys really talk and own up to, like, it's more than just one side?
joe rogan
But no one's willing to give up any ground.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
unidentified
Right.
ari shaffir
So then we won't talk.
joe rogan
The people with the pro-choice are saying, no, it's a woman's right to choose.
And the people that are pro-life say, no, you're killing a baby.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And if you give up any ground, the baby's going to die.
ari shaffir
So then you can't even talk.
joe rogan
Or you're going to take away a woman's right to have an abortion, and then she's going to have to carry a bunch of kids from people that raped her.
I mean, this is the worst case scenario in extremes on both ends.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
As a booker, as a former booker, someone who books a show, they're like, you need more women.
It's like, oh, I'm looking hard.
But you have to understand that I'm not going to hurt my product over it.
I do want diversity.
I want diversity of opinion on there.
I want diversity of experience.
I want some Australians.
I want some fucking black people.
Ali Sadiq gives a far different life experience than I do.
Forget about my race.
Just his life experience is way different.
You know, Ali Sadiq and Byron Bowers, both black guys, gives a far different worldview.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
You know?
So I do want that diversity of experience.
But I'm not going to hurt my – I'm not going to get some shitty guy who just was in prison and doesn't know how to tell a story.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
So I'll work hard, but meet me halfway.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
I will do it, but find me quality people.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
So I'll go to fucking Atlanta and find Miss Pat, but I'll go – I have to go far for it.
So if somebody cancels on my show and now I have five white guys, don't be like, fuck you.
Look into it a little more.
It's like, I just had two chicks cancel.
So meet me halfway.
joe rogan
Well, whenever you're looking for diversity as opposed to looking for the best possible product, you've got an issue.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
And part of that best product is some diversity of opinion.
joe rogan
But it should be good.
And there's no reason why the two are mutually exclusive.
Mm-hmm.
The idea that there's only a certain limited amount of good ideas that come mostly from white people is ridiculous.
So there's plenty of ideas that will come from Asians and plenty of ideas that come from all sorts of different ethnicities that are also excellent.
So it's just finding them.
But when you guarantee that you're going to have five of this and five of that, that's when you're going to have a real fucking problem.
ari shaffir
Yeah, so I had my friend...
Collette said that what they're doing in the business world is they're taking what their industry is, the number of, let's say men and women only, black and white and Latino or whatever, just men and women.
They're taking the number of people in that industry and in order to correct an overuse of males, let's say, or the other way, overuse of females in autistic training.
But let's just say in the business world, it's 70-30, making that up.
So what you do is, they force you, instead of what California does, like you must put a woman on your board, which means like, okay, we have three board members, one left, and we have to hire a woman now.
Wait, Bill Gates just became available.
He wants to work on our board.
joe rogan
Can't hire him.
ari shaffir
Can't hire him.
That's hurting my company.
He's great.
So what they said is, in order to correct it, they will interview at a 10% higher rate than the industry numbers.
So that they'll be exposed slightly to more of the people that are underrepresented.
And over time, that would correct the issue without hurting any company.
I have to hear, well, let me hear why you think you're right for the job.
And eventually, you will hear people like, wow, she was actually really good.
Let's actually hear her there.
But if it's still Bill Gates, you probably didn't get the job over him.
He's got his fucking, he's got his resume.
joe rogan
Well, that's where Jordan Peterson comes in with this equality of outcome argument.
And the equality of outcome argument is a dangerous argument.
If you guarantee equality of outcome, you guarantee that women are going to make exactly the same amount as men, and so even if the man works harder, the women are still going to make the same amount of money.
That's ridiculous.
ari shaffir
And vice versa.
Sure.
joe rogan
But with anybody or anything.
ari shaffir
Yeah, the NFL said you have to interview.
I mean, we're predominantly black.
You have to interview.
Interview, not hire.
Interview one black candidate before you hire somebody.
So at least these people get heard.
And sometimes you go like, that guy was actually pretty fucking good.
Let's really consider him.
And then they get hired a little more until it just shifts the needle.
But only qualified people.
joe rogan
Right.
Ideally what you would want is no racism, right?
No racism, no sexism.
That's ideal.
And not to have to...
Make some laws for it.
ari shaffir
Yeah, but we're not in that world.
That's not the world we live in.
joe rogan
But it would be nice.
That would be what we really want.
What we really want is this is never an issue at all.
You're only getting people that are great at it.
And that way, if racism was not an issue at all, if there was no racism whatsoever, what you would say is, oh, look, it seems like Asian people gravitate towards this.
It seems like people of this color or this culture rather gravitate towards this activity.
And I wonder why that is.
Instead of saying, why don't you hire more white people?
You'd say, it seems like white people aren't really interested in that job.
ari shaffir
I mean, the cleaners in New York is the very Asian job.
joe rogan
Yes.
unidentified
Why?
ari shaffir
But you're not like, you need to hire white people.
You need to hire black people.
It's like...
It's not a thought after job.
joe rogan
But because it's not a high prestige job, that's why.
ari shaffir
So nobody cares.
joe rogan
Yeah, nobody cares.
But if it was a CEO of large financial institutions, you would say this is ridiculous that it's all this and not that.
Ideally, it would be a fascinating social experiment or a social observation to find out what genders, what sexual orientation, what race, what ethnicities gravitate towards specific jobs Those jobs didn't have a hierarchy of desire right if there wasn't some jobs that are far more desirable Yeah,
I mean one of the arguments I had really early on in Hollywood was with this guy who was a really nice guy, but he was Asian and He was saying there's no fucking roles for Asian actors.
This is bullshit and I was like, okay Why don't you make roles?
It's like, it's not that easy.
I go, I get it.
I understand that it's not that easy.
But do you think that someone should have to write an Asian leading man because you have a hard time getting a job?
ari shaffir
Right.
joe rogan
Like, what should they do?
Like, how should it be done?
ari shaffir
There's also no roles for ugly people.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
It's true.
Like, what about, you know, what about people who are dwarves?
There's no, there's very few jobs for that.
ari shaffir
Very few.
And one guy's killing it.
joe rogan
That one guy's dominating, that Game of Thrones dude.
ari shaffir
What would you do?
joe rogan
Like, what would you do to correct that is the question.
It's not whether or not the world is fair.
The world's not fair.
There's no five-foot-tall white guys that are playing in the NBA. That's not fair either.
There's weird shit that just happens to be reality.
Like, what do you do to correct that?
And, you know, he was really adamant that Hollywood is racist, they're not hiring Asians to be leading men, and Asians, I'm like, okay.
I see how it would be frustrating for you as an actor, but if you're a screenwriter and you're a guy who writes a story about a white guy who moves into a haunted house and he falls in love with this woman and they buy a house together and the house winds up being haunted and there's monsters...
You're saying, should someone have to change that to an Asian guy so that you get a job?
ari shaffir
Yeah, it's also simplistic because it's not hearing the other argument.
It's like, okay, sure, that guy could be anybody.
That guy could be any race.
But if me, I'm not Hollywood, I'm a guy making this one movie.
And if I cast an Asian...
I'm probably going to make far less money than if I cast a guy who looks like most of the movie ticket purchasers.
Which is a white guy.
joe rogan
Or a famous person which you know is going to sell big time tickets.
ari shaffir
Sure, absolutely.
So then it's like, you want me to correct what Hollywood is, but I'm not Hollywood.
I'm just this producer for this movie.
joe rogan
That's something that my friend Frankie Renzulli said to me once.
He said, there's no Hollywood.
ari shaffir
That's what I said about the AIDS cure.
Doctors have the cure, but they make more money in selling off the treatment.
But there's no such thing as doctors.
There's no doctor's group.
So if one doctor had it, he would be a billionaire.
If he just released the cure.
joe rogan
Well, this is the main problem with conspiracy theory, is that everyone's working together.
They think that everyone's working together as a part of some grand thing to keep the knowledge that the world's flat away from the general public.
Like that kind of stupidity.
But that comes from a lack of understanding of how human beings interact with each other and about how magnificent a discovery so gigantic would be to the one person that exposed it.
That that person's gonna keep their mouth shut?
For what fucking reason?
For what reason?
That's nonsense.
ari shaffir
I will say with that in mind, there is a thing that when you interview a white lady or a black dude for a job, a lot of times your predispositions towards those races or genders go in and go like, I don't respect you as much as your mind is there.
I kind of like disrespect you a little.
I don't think you have the brain that someone who looks different has.
So now you're like not letting them get the part or get the job they would have gotten Not the part.
Hollywood's so garbage.
joe rogan
Yeah, the part doesn't work.
ari shaffir
The job.
Because, like, ah, really?
You're smart?
No way.
joe rogan
Right, a woman's gonna do the best job?
Get the fuck out of here.
ari shaffir
Yeah, when you ever see, like, an actor who goes on to, like, write and direct his own thing, you're like, what?
Because most actors are fucking idiots.
unidentified
Right.
ari shaffir
And then when you see one that's actually intelligent, like, I would not have expected that from you.
And that happens also with race and gender.
So that, you do want to correct.
joe rogan
Yes.
Well, that's what Billy Bob Thornton did with Sling Blade.
He couldn't get jobs.
ari shaffir
Made his own.
joe rogan
So he decided, you know what, I have this crazy character.
Swingers, exactly.
Jon Favreau.
They decided to make his own movie.
ari shaffir
Rocky.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I mean, sort of.
He just made sure he played the character.
ari shaffir
And he wrote it.
joe rogan
And he wrote it, yeah.
But he did go to a major...
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Studio.
But you can't mandate creativity.
Creativity is a different element.
Because, like, look, how many fucking books has Stephen King written about Maine?
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, every other book is about Maine.
You can't tell him he can't write a book about Maine because people from Kenosha, Wisconsin, are upset and they think that you're, you know, you're a locationist.
ari shaffir
But I do like what they do in the UK in their, like, the first year of Black Mirror, which is UK-based.
Mm-hmm.
They just let black guys play roles.
They're not playing black person.
There's mixed race couples.
They're just people.
They're way further along than we are in terms of their social consciousness of the zeitgeist in general.
They don't see race as much.
Europeans?
English.
English.
They see Indians and Pakistanis and stuff like that.
They see that race really hard still.
We actually probably see that less.
But in terms of black and white, they're just way more like, they're just people.
Right.
joe rogan
That's interesting.
Because they don't have a history of slavery like we do?
ari shaffir
Maybe it's that Serbs stopped earlier.
I'm not sure.
I mean, way back they had the Moor in Shakespeare.
But, like, I don't know.
It's just not as bad as us.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
For whatever reason.
I'm not really sure of the causes.
But then black guys can just play a role.
joe rogan
There's an argument about that with Black Mirror that I found was kind of silly.
Someone was saying, oh, I'm upset about Black Mirror because it's like every show has a woman lead in every show.
I go, step away and look at the shows.
They're fucking fantastic.
ari shaffir
The show is so good.
joe rogan
But that's someone who's so upset by this whole idea of diversity and enforced diversity that they're looking for it even when it's not relevant because the actual work itself is so good.
ari shaffir
So, like, you shouldn't say the new Ghostbusters sucked because it was all women.
You should say the new Ghostbusters sucked because no one was calling for a remake of it.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
And it sucked.
joe rogan
Or Star Wars.
The new Star Wars, like, when you had Carrie Fisher and Laura Dern were, like, the major generals.
And you're like, what?
This doesn't even work.
Like, maybe it doesn't work because it wasn't written well and because they didn't really pull it off, but you're telling me you couldn't have some badass chick like Sigourney Weaver when she was in Aliens who dominated the film and nobody gave a fuck that she was the lead.
ari shaffir
Because it was so good.
And look how cool the blonde chick is from Game of Thrones.
joe rogan
Perfect.
ari shaffir
And Cersei's.
Yes.
No one's like, oh yeah, whatever.
It's like no one thinks of them as women.
They're just like strong characters.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Omar from The Wire, who was gay and black.
Like, no one cares.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
Because it was just like he nailed it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
But then how do you...
ari shaffir
You have to not see it and be like, who's going to be great in this?
And also give a representation of, you can't make all the gangsters white because it'd be unrealistic.
unidentified
Right.
ari shaffir
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
We've seen this in comedy too, right?
There's a difference between enforced diversity and people who just happen to be diverse but are brilliant.
ari shaffir
True.
joe rogan
And we've seen this where they're trying to enforce certain aspects of stand-up comedy.
ari shaffir
If you say nobody with mustaches, you're going to make your product worse.
joe rogan
How many times have we seen this?
And people will say, hey, why aren't there more women at the comedy store?
Why aren't there more this?
Why aren't there more that?
Whoops.
ari shaffir
Oh, yeah.
That lady who said, like, Whitney Cummings only got three spots last month.
Explain that.
Like, what you're doing is accusing.
But if you're actually asking, why did Whitney Cummings get three spots last month?
It's because Whitney Cummings called in for three spots last month.
She gets every spot she wanted.
She will tell you that if you ask it to her face.
She's one of the ones who's card blotting.
So are you.
You don't call in and not get a spot.
There are certain people who get the spots they want.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
So she's one of them.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
So the answer is...
joe rogan
She's busy.
ari shaffir
Yeah, exactly.
The answer is not sexism there.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, that's nonsense, though.
That kind of thinking almost always comes from people who suck.
If you look at their art, they're almost always bad.
That's just a fact.
They want equality of outcome.
unidentified
And that's not new.
ari shaffir
I was talking to Lisa about this recently.
It's not new, it made me realize.
Same thing when Dane Cook got big.
People were like, oh, because he's good looking.
And that was a bunch of sucky guys who weren't killing every set like Dane was.
And they were going, there must be a reason, other than it's on me, why I'm not as big as him.
So how about the good looking thing?
That's off me.
I have no control over that.
And it's really like, dude, that guy kills 19 times out of 20, and you kill 2 out of 20. Like, can you possibly say it could be based on that?
joe rogan
But it's the people that are complaining are almost never doing well anyway.
So this is why they're complaining.
ari shaffir
True.
joe rogan
I mean, you're not going to hear certain people.
You're not going to hear Bill Burr complaining about other people doing well.
ari shaffir
Well, Chappelle said it.
I mean, black comics who do well, they're all successful.
joe rogan
Hugely.
ari shaffir
You guys, if you're doing well on stage consistently...
As a black comic, there's no question you'll be making doctor money.
He didn't say that, but that's what it is.
joe rogan
That's what it is, yeah.
Well, comedy in many ways is very egalitarian in that way.
ari shaffir
You get laughed so you don't.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, you are what you are.
Either you're really funny or you're not.
ari shaffir
And there's black rooms for black comics to do something that doesn't relate to certain white audiences.
I just can't figure it out.
But there's rooms for them.
The Mexican rooms where they do half their punchlines in Spanish.
That wouldn't play at the comedy store, but it would play in certain audiences.
joe rogan
Well, when Diaz used to do Miami.
He would do Spanglish.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He would half his punchlines would be in Spanish and people would fall out of their fucking chair laughing.
ari shaffir
Because they understood it.
joe rogan
And if you were a white guy who didn't swear, good luck.
ari shaffir
Yeah, good luck.
joe rogan
Just jump out a window.
ari shaffir
That was another thing.
Oh, you're dirty.
That's why you're successful.
Oh, yeah.
That's a big one.
Hey, man, just start crushing and this won't be an issue.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, that was a nonsense issue, too.
Like, I don't want to follow someone dirty.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Why not?
ari shaffir
Yeah.
unidentified
Why?
joe rogan
What difference does it have?
ari shaffir
Yeah.
But this idea that, like, I'm not getting ahead because of reasons, not new.
I just realized this has been going on as a reason to be like, off me why I'm not doing well.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And it doesn't...
I think the real sexism...
Especially for women is having to work with a bunch of people that are trying to fuck you all the time.
ari shaffir
Especially, I think, at open mics when you're already ready to quit anyway.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
You're about ready to quit.
And now this fucking, these creeps are around and there's no one to talk to.
joe rogan
And they're half crazy.
ari shaffir
The coffee shop, they're half homeless.
I mean, for real homeless.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
People who line up for open mics, there's a giant percentage of them that are out of their fucking mind.
So if you're some girl who already feels vulnerable around men to begin with because you're smaller and you're a target for sexual harassment.
ari shaffir
There's no manager to go talk to.
Like, hey, this guy's fucking, can you walk me in my car?
joe rogan
There's no rules.
You can sign up.
There's 30 other people signing up.
You wait around for your name to be called.
If you're lucky, you get three minutes.
ari shaffir
And you're still, no matter what, five years away from making a dollar.
So it's like, you know what?
Fuck it.
I'm done.
If Mary Lynn Rice Cub today gets harassed, she's not going to quit.
She's still making money.
She might not come to the store anymore if nobody does anything about it.
joe rogan
But people would do something about it.
ari shaffir
There's a place to go to for like, hey, you need to get rid of this guy.
This audience member can't come anymore.
joe rogan
And that's just comedy.
I mean, with any job, I think the real issue...
Well, also with men.
Men are fucking stupid, okay?
If you're working with a man and you're nice to that man, he assumes you want to fuck him.
Because this is evolution.
This is how it worked.
Yeah, we're monkeys.
ari shaffir
Touch my arm and it's like, I'm in for the next two days.
joe rogan
Oh, you must like me.
So if a woman is kind to a guy and gets some coffee, the guy thinks she wants to suck his dick because he's stupid.
Because this is how we're programmed.
We're programmed to think that women who are nice to us, if that woman is attractive, she must be sending us signals she wants sexual attention.
It can't just be some completely plutonic workplace situation.
That's not possible because eight hours a day when you're working with someone, you develop feelings and thoughts and ideas about that person.
ari shaffir
I realized that when we were doing the Nasty Show in Montreal, and there's all these young interns, some of them women, and young people are cuter than old people.
I don't know what to tell you.
Stand by, you can be mad at me all you want.
You're an ageist!
Yeah, you can be mad at me all you want.
You're an ageist!
Fucking talk to every magazine.
Yeah.
And you get this idea and you're there a week early from everybody else.
The nasty show starts way earlier.
So you're pretty much the only English speaking show while the French stuff is going on.
And these interns come out and you're like, ooh, I think I can fuck one of them.
And then it hit me like, oh wait, there's also male interns who are also showing up to the shows.
And you're like, oh, they're all just comedy fans.
And I'm reading in...
These women must be flirting because they're coming when they're exhibiting literally the exact same behavior as the men who are coming.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
Coming to like, I want to hang out with the comedian.
Yeah.
And they might want hookah.
They might not.
But I'm putting something on them only because of their gender.
And then it's like, OK, step back.
You can't fuck any of these people.
joe rogan
Right.
Yeah.
And that must be what it's like if you're the manager of an office and there's a cute woman who works for you and a guy who's fat and gross.
And they're both exhibiting the exact same friendly behavior towards you.
You don't assume the fat guy wants to suck your dick.
ari shaffir
Right.
And then also it's like you can still hook up, but they have to do all the work.
The underling has to do all the pushing.
unidentified
Man, can you?
joe rogan
Even though I don't think you can in an office environment.
ari shaffir
I think if the underling keeps pushing...
But they have to push hard.
They have to push hard.
You can be like, what are you doing this weekend?
Everybody?
A friend of mine.
unidentified
I'm going to move.
ari shaffir
You want to come?
Sure.
Anybody else want to come?
You have to really not push and put them in that position.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And there's people going to take advantage of that on both sides.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
And even on the female side.
There's a friend of mine who works at Vice.
And he was talking to me about this woman who was making these really obvious...
Flortations?
Well, advances.
She was trying to have sex with him.
And he contacted one of the other guys that he works with that was also there.
And he's like, do not fuck her.
Like, she is upwardly mobile.
Like, what she was doing, she's trying to fuck her way up to the top.
She did it to this guy.
And then she called sexual harassment on him after she flirted with him.
And then she got some fucking advance that she shouldn't have.
Some nonsense went on.
People are political.
Some people are very calculated, and some people are sociopaths.
And they exist with vaginas.
They exist with penises.
This is just part of being a person.
There's some people that are just bad people.
ari shaffir
But there's also some women who like power, and that's not wrong either.
And so it's like, oh, you're a manager.
It justifiably makes me want to fuck you a little more.
And so that's okay, too.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, there's some women also that like being in power, and we hate those women, but we don't hate the men who like to be in power.
That's a weird thing, too.
Like, a woman who wants to run shit, we're like, look at this crazy bitch wanting to run everything.
Whereas a guy who wants to run shit seems totally normal.
ari shaffir
Yeah, I will say it's a bigger wrong...
It's like, what do you most likely want to avoid?
You know?
And it seems like a bigger wrong for someone to have to, like, worry about getting fucking...
Not just being able to do their job versus...
Oh, this chick wants to sleep with me because she wants to get ahead.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, that's easy to avoid.
It's for the guy.
There's no physical threat.
ari shaffir
Way easier.
There's never a physical threat for the guy.
unidentified
Yeah, it's fucking nothing.
ari shaffir
People are like, well, I got my ass grabbed.
And you could end it any time you want.
It's not the same.
Stop it.
joe rogan
I mean, unless you're really a mess and you're just vulnerable psychologically, physically, all the above.
ari shaffir
It's rare.
joe rogan
You're an aberration.
ari shaffir
Yeah, you're an aberration.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
I don't know how to correct it, but like...
joe rogan
We were lucky we don't have to work with people all day, man.
People in a fucking office environment that are working around people all day and people have some weird shit and then you go to the company Christmas party and some guy who works with your wife says some creepy shit to you because you know he's been...
Like, he's been coveting your wife behind your back, and he wants her, and he talks shit about you to her, and she tells you, and that kind of shit is so normal, man.
Because you think about how many hours are in a day.
You have 24 hours in a day.
Eight of them you're sleeping.
Okay, so how much time is commuting?
How much time is work?
Most of your day is at work.
So your life is not with your spouse.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
You might not hook up with them, but you're interacting with them in a disproportionate way.
ari shaffir
Do you think, with people sometimes talk about Me Too going too far, but let's talk about for a second like Me Too going the right level.
Do you think, and we don't work in an office job, so we're just guessing.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
Do you think sexual harassment are down now in the last year?
joe rogan
I think men who are creeps are probably a little more cautious.
ari shaffir
I remember after them and see a video.
People all over open mics were calling each other out on it.
And then occasionally, it was a question of, it went too far.
We're like, you stole that joke from me.
It's like, dude, we both talked about the same movie.
You're trying to write me off my whole career off because I talked about, you know...
Whatever.
Dance with wolves.
And so are you.
But your thing was about the Native Americans.
Your thing was about the fucking dog they had.
And so I'm sure it went too far here or there.
But it was nice where it was no longer acceptable to steal jokes.
joe rogan
Yes.
ari shaffir
And it wasn't just something we're going to tolerate.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
It's got to be like that, too, with this Me Too stuff.
It's no longer acceptable to fucking pat an ass.
joe rogan
Exactly.
ari shaffir
And you can be like, what?
I just wanted to...
And everyone else, even the guy's like, dude, no.
joe rogan
Dude, I couldn't imagine being a man rather the opposite.
I couldn't imagine being a woman working for a man who wanted to fuck me and me getting a raise, me getting some sort of upward movement in my career is dependent upon this person making a decision and this person's always trying to fuck me.
That would be disgusting.
And that's what a lot of women have to deal with all day long.
And that's only one step of it.
How about the fucking Bill Cosby step?
How about you can't leave your fucking drink alone?
You can't leave your drink.
That's a reality with a lot of women.
That's not a reality with you or me.
We're not always trying to rape us.
I mean, there's a lot of shit that women have to think about that we don't have to think about.
A lot.
Many, many, many, many, many, many, many things.
ari shaffir
Yeah, it is interesting.
This now is all coming up.
You're like, what?
How many of you had something?
unidentified
Damn.
ari shaffir
Fuck.
It's worse than I thought.
A lot of it's too because you just want to believe the best in the world and people.
And so when you're like...
You're like, no, that can't happen that much.
It's not like you're the problem.
You're not doing it.
You just don't want to believe that's possible.
unidentified
We're so removed.
ari shaffir
You don't want to believe some kid can get chopped up by some monster.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
You're like, no.
unidentified
Right.
ari shaffir
Yeah, we're removed from it.
We don't see it as much.
It's not directed at us.
joe rogan
We live in fucked up worlds, man.
Our world is everybody smokes pot.
Almost everybody drinks.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, everybody's a deviant.
Everybody is impossible for them to have a regular job.
Every single one of us that's successful as a comic, it's virtually impossible for any of us to have ever existed in an office environment and survived.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
We're too fucked up.
But we're perfect for comedy.
You know what I mean?
So like us, us talking about office politics and office environments...
unidentified
It's kind of silly.
ari shaffir
We have no idea really what it is.
unidentified
We're fools.
ari shaffir
That's why I think it's funny when people say like, talk about, I don't know, Louis or something where it's like...
It was a comedy festival, so it was at their job.
And it's like, oh, no, no, no, no.
You just don't understand what comedy is.
joe rogan
It's a workplace safety issue.
ari shaffir
If it was a workplace, then you would have to say, like, by the way, actually, do people do coke at the workplace in our job?
People actually consensually fuck during work at our workplace?
joe rogan
Because that happens, too.
A lot of pot smoking at our workplace.
ari shaffir
Yeah, like, it's not, it's not, it's not.
joe rogan
Our workplace has a designated pot smoking place.
And now, where we are now...
ari shaffir
While you're in the green room, you can't fuck with anybody.
But you can smoke.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
It's not a workplace.
joe rogan
It's not.
Well, it's just...
ari shaffir
But you should still have the rights to safety, but it ain't a workplace.
joe rogan
Well, and you should...
It's all...
Like, here's the thing.
Like, say if you're Tom and Christina.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're married together.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
You could fuck in the green room.
ari shaffir
Absolutely.
joe rogan
Just lock the door, and who's gonna stop you?
So you could fuck at the workplace.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, you could.
That's not an issue.
ari shaffir
Yeah, people fuck in the green room all the time.
Like, hey, beat it, this girl's coming in.
joe rogan
But you can't fuck if, you know, you're the manager and she's a secretary and you pull her into your office.
You get fired for that.
Even if it's your wife.
You're not allowed to do that.
ari shaffir
At real work?
You can't fuck at work.
joe rogan
You can't fuck at work.
ari shaffir
Remember Constanza got fired?
He goes, is that not allowed?
joe rogan
What did he do at work?
ari shaffir
He fucked the mate.
And then they were like, we caught you on camera.
He goes, oh, was that a problem?
I didn't realize.
He's trying to lie his way out of it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
I think people are listening more and it's slow.
And I think the conversation gets sidetracked when you hit on punishment too much.
When people hit on punishment, like this person needs to go away.
It's like, can we get back to the fucking...
Same thing with Michael Vick.
Right.
Yeah, I'm on your side.
But like, oh, now you sidetracked me to go.
No, no, he should be allowed to play football.
That has nothing to do with it.
Let's just get back always to the argument.
Like, let's make it safer for chicks in the workplace.
Let's not let a black guy not get hired when he's deserving.
Right.
You know, let's fix that stuff.
The punishment sidetracks is you can still talk about it, but not when you're emotional.
joe rogan
I think one thing that we've come with in this conversation is that jobs suck.
ari shaffir
Jobs do suck.
joe rogan
And no one should have them, because if you have them, people want to fuck you that you work with.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
I think that's the solution.
ari shaffir
When it's like, men need to shut up.
It's like, alright, well then we can't help you or hurt you if you need to shut up.
joe rogan
Wow, those people are just, there's fringe, there's loud fringe people.
Like, you know, that's one of my favorite tweets that I saved from this feminist woman that said, all white males are trash unless proven otherwise.
ari shaffir
It's like, alright, great.
Well, we're not going to, then great.
But you want our help.
So, okay, great.
Good luck with that.
joe rogan
Unless proven otherwise, that's a ridiculous way to look at things.
What if a man said that?
All women are cunts unless proven otherwise.
That's a bad person.
ari shaffir
Well, it's also like the answer to, I don't know, white dudes have been in charge forever, is not, fuck these people over who I wasn't here for forever.
joe rogan
White people just need to stop talking.
ari shaffir
Yeah, and it's like, okay.
The answer is lack of racism, lack of sexism.
joe rogan
Yes, complete lack, even in judging white people, even in judging white males, even in judging white males in a position of power.
There should be no racism.
There should be no discrimination.
ari shaffir
That presidential candidate early, early last time, they're like, how do you feel about Black Lives Matter?
He hadn't heard about it yet.
He goes, yeah.
unidentified
What?
ari shaffir
And he was super progressive.
He was like, of course Black Lives Matter, All Lives Matter.
What are you talking about?
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And they're like, All Lives Matter?
That's a slogan for the other side.
And they wrote him off.
And he's like, I just didn't know about your fucking three-word summation of the whole argument.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Black Lives Matter or All Lives Matter?
And Bernie Sanders said, Black Lives Matter.
And he said, why?
And people are like, oh, you're super progressive.
We love you, Bernie.
You're playing by the rules that we've established and you're saying the things that we make you say.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, of course all lives matter, but black lives matter as well.
So do yellow lives matter.
ari shaffir
It's fucking crazy.
It doesn't work as a slogan.
If you go, hey, we need to figure out why black people are getting shot at a higher rate in their percentages than white people by cops.
So we need to curb that immediately.
We need to make it somewhere where you can actually trust the police to represent you all and not have a fear of them.
That's not a slogan you can throw out.
But if you said that, then nobody's going to be like, You should have to worry about cops.
We were just like, yeah, I'll get behind that.
joe rogan
This is a super deep and complex conversation about systemic racism in communities where, like in Baltimore, where they literally established zones where black people couldn't buy homes.
ari shaffir
Yeah, and now you're going to sum it up into three words?
joe rogan
Yeah, this is...
You've got...
Giant cultural issues that should be addressed on literally a nationwide scale.
We're interested in building nations and helping people in Afghanistan and giving aid to Saudi Arabia and all these different – fill in the blank with whatever country it is.
How the fuck are they not fixing the south side of Chicago?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, how the fuck are they not fixing Baltimore?
How are they not going to Compton, Flint?
ari shaffir
The fucking water is still undrinkable.
joe rogan
Goddammit, Elon Musk has to step in and say he's going to fix your water?
ari shaffir
And by the way, you and I... We have no idea about the backstory to it and how to fix it.
We have our opinions and our opinions are worthless.
They're just opinions.
joe rogan
Worthless and no solutions.
We're just talking.
Neither one of us have any skin in the game.
We're talking out of our ass.
ari shaffir
But we're not doing anything really wrong to people.
joe rogan
We're not hurting anybody.
But if we want to look at things objectively, that is a real valid...
It's a real argument, a real valid point of discussion.
It's like, sure, black lives matter, but you know what else matters?
Really bad communities that have been bad for decade after decade after decade, and they're not being addressed by any politicians, they're not being addressed by any community leaders.
No one is stepping in and saying, hey, before we do anything involving any other country, We've got to fix all the problems we have right here, and they can be fixed.
They can be fixed, and it might take decades.
It might take years.
I don't know how long it's going to take, but it's not going to be fixed at all if we do nothing.
ari shaffir
That's also part of this argument when it goes too far is the pendulum is here.
We want it back in the middle.
It's just going to have to swing a little too far and then come back.
joe rogan
When we're talking about Me Too and sexual harassment and rape and all this stuff, I think one of the things that we're dealing with is information.
Distribution of information is occurring at a rate that's unprecedented.
It's never been like this before.
And I think there's a real step that's going to happen with human beings where you're going to be able to Literally read minds and this is going to happen through some sort of a merging with humans and technology Elon Musk believes it's going to be this thing that he's releasing something in the next few months called neural link and this neural link is going to somehow or another Increase the bandwidth between people and information at a rate that's gonna literally change
what a human being is and The way he was explaining it was very vague, but you know when you're talking about a guy like Elon Musk and the Insane ideas that he has bouncing around inside his fucking robot brain.
Yeah, I believe him and I believe this is one step just like no one could have ever predicted the internet in 19, you know 60 and No one ever would have thought, other than, I think, Malcolm McLuhan had some ideas.
andy stumpf
Some people had some ideas of what could possibly happen.
joe rogan
No one, no average person saw this coming and I think no average person is going to see these next stages of Integration between human beings and technology and one of them is going to be some sort of a Translation device some sort of a translation device that translates not just languages but thoughts and a universal language that is It defies economic boundaries,
political boundaries, geographic boundaries, something that everyone's going to be able to understand.
The real problem with the Tower of Babel argument is that if someone's talking in Bangladesh, and someone's talking in Japan, and someone's talking in America, there's so many different ways of saying things, it's too hard to understand them all.
No one knows all the languages.
ari shaffir
And the nuance.
When they translated the stranger, the first sentence is, and it's in French, I think, but it's, mother died yesterday, or was it the day before?
I can't be sure.
And they have to have arguments about, should you use mother, should you use mom, should you use mama?
Like, which one is the actually meaning in French to not just get like a sterile one, but like a normalized one?
It's like, yeah, it's beyond just translation.
So yeah, so go ahead.
joe rogan
And I think this is one of the giant problems with whenever you're dealing with nationalism, whenever you're dealing with this idea of the other, that someone from another place is different than you.
ari shaffir
It's different than you.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Kids in Yemen's lives don't matter nearly as much as, I don't know, someone not getting hired for late night TV. Sure.
joe rogan
Kids in Yemen is a perfect example because they're using drones to launch missiles into a country that we're not even supposed to be at war with.
Kids, six-year-olds.
unidentified
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Not insurgents.
joe rogan
Mm-hmm.
ari shaffir
A six-year-old little girl is dead times a thousand, but if one died, why is that okay?
joe rogan
It's not happening in Chicago or San Francisco.
There's no drones launching into the East Village.
So because that's not happening, we don't think of it as a concern of ours.
And I think these hurdles These are informational hurdles as much as they're geographical hurdles and they're language hurdles and these are hurdles of understanding.
And I think as our realm of understanding expands and we get a better understanding of the idea that we really are just human beings in different places and that you are no different than me and I'm no different from some kid who lives in China and that we're all just human beings.
And whatever our differences are, they pale in comparison to our similarities.
And also the random chance that you were born in Maryland and I was born in New Jersey.
ari shaffir
Yeah, there's that too.
joe rogan
This randomness.
And this idea that you take pride in that is so foolhardy and so ridiculous.
And the idea that somehow or another we're on some sort of a tribe.
And this is something that human beings cling to for security and safety.
And we go with tribe left and tribe right.
And we go with tribe progressive and tribe conservative.
And we go with tribe America and tribe Canada and tribe Mexico.
It's all foolishness.
As technology expands, that will be more and more preposterous.
And you're starting to see this with even the way people view religion.
If you look to people from just a few decades ago, how many people in this country identified as atheists?
It's quite a bit less than today.
Quite a bit more identified with today because you start to understand more about religion.
There's Google.
And Bill Maher and Sam Harris were actually talking about this on a podcast recently.
Because they were talking about the 10th anniversary of Religious, Bill Maher's documentary, and they made a really good point that Google came along, and when Google came along, people were allowed to then research the history of Mormonism, where they never really could before.
And they go, wait, he was 14 in 1820?
And Joseph Smith was just a kid, and he made up a bunch of...
Find me a 14-year-old that's not full of shit, and that's way more impressive.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And then Scientology and many of the chapters in the Bible when people look at the difference between the New Testament and the Old Testament and who wrote it and why and how many passages were removed and edited by human beings.
You decide the work of God, like what gets to be released and what's not.
All that stuff is...
It's kindling for the fire of enlightenment, and that fire is spreading.
And I think that it's an informational tool.
And this fire of enlightenment is a bad term, fire of enlightenment.
ari shaffir
But just the spread of ideas.
When you realize it's like Me Too, when it really does get out, we're like, whoa, I didn't realize how bad it had gotten.
joe rogan
And we think about how many women, they were talking about this a long time ago, and you're like, come on.
ari shaffir
Yeah, and you're like, man.
joe rogan
Relax, honey.
ari shaffir
Yeah, exactly.
That's okay.
And now you're like, fuck, I guess it is really bad.
joe rogan
Well, the Cosby thing, I remember hearing about that when I was at news radio.
ari shaffir
Yeah, it was always a thing like, I guess, I don't know, maybe.
joe rogan
But I didn't think about it in terms of if I was an actress.
ari shaffir
Or if that was my sister who went through that.
joe rogan
Or my mom.
ari shaffir
That's another reason, too, where I'll try to put myself in the place.
I'm pretty good at like...
I mean, you've seen me tell stories.
I get worked up.
You know, I can put myself in the place I was or, you know, imagine something pretty good.
And so it's like, yeah, if it was your sister, your mom, your girlfriend, your wife, daughter going through it, you'd be like, I'll fucking kill that guy, you know?
And so you're so mad.
But then the same thing when I hear about like...
I don't know, like Louie.
And if my sister told me that, I'd be like, you did what?
Was it all red?
Was it all red?
joe rogan
Was it red pubes?
How many of them were gray?
ari shaffir
Yeah, so it's like, I try to put it in the position as best I can.
I still don't have to go through it if it's wrong, but like, there's levels.
joe rogan
There's levels.
ari shaffir
But also, it's like, getting back to it, it's like, you really hear about all this stuff now, and you're like, whoa.
joe rogan
But there's also, in terms of someone like Louis, there's got to be a road to redemption.
And this is one of the problems with people that are so fucking angry, is that they don't think there's any road to redemption.
They want his career to be taken away.
ari shaffir
Michael Vick should never play again.
joe rogan
But the Michael Vick thing is different.
unidentified
Why?
joe rogan
Because Michael Vick tortured and murdered dogs.
Didn't murder.
ari shaffir
But he also went to jail for four years.
He did the time that the state said, you need to do this for what you did.
He served his time.
He lost his freedom for four years.
joe rogan
Yes.
Yes.
ari shaffir
So his job that he had before has nothing to do with it, but it does come down to people going, I'm not through with you suffering yet.
joe rogan
Okay.
ari shaffir
Same thing with Louis.
joe rogan
I still think it's a different thing.
ari shaffir
I'm not through with you suffering.
You represent evil to women.
joe rogan
Killing and torturing dogs.
ari shaffir
Of course it's different.
joe rogan
Do you represent evil to women just because you beat off in front of them, or are you just a creeper?
ari shaffir
Of course you're just a creeper, but not even that, I don't think.
A pervert.
I guess.
joe rogan
What are you?
ari shaffir
I don't know man.
- You're sexually deviant? - You hang out with two girls who are talking dirty for two days, you go on drinks with them, you start getting the idea, it's like, I think I can hook up, I think I might have a threesome.
And they're like, that's not enough reason to go for it.
It's like, yeah, you're right, I need more signs.
They're like, well let me say you wanna go out for drinks.
And they do, and it's like, still, no, it's not enough of a sign.
It's like, yeah, you're right, you're right.
Oh, I know, I'll invite them up to my hotel room.
That's usually a pretty universal sign.
They're coming?
They came to my hotel room?
No, that's not enough.
You're right, you're right, you're right.
All these signs is not enough.
Tell you what, I'll just ask outright, can I fucking jerk off in front of you?
And they said yes.
No, that's still not enough?
What are you talking about?
So no, not Creeper, but he represents things to people, just like Roseanne represented Trump when she said she has a character who voted for Trump in the show.
So because they're representative of evil against women, they go, just get rid of that representative.
And they're not seeing him as a human being that people actually know, that is a human, that is a person.
joe rogan
Not only that, if someone says yes, If you ask, can I beat off in front of you, and they say yes.
ari shaffir
And then never say, no, no, I was just kidding.
Just leave the yes out there.
joe rogan
Here's this.
We're done here.
ari shaffir
We're done.
joe rogan
Did you say yes?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Okay.
So, like, if a girl says, can I play with my pussy in front of you?
And you go, yeah.
And then she doesn't, you go, well, that was fucking disgusting, and I can't even believe this happened, and I'm going right to the press.
Like, wait a minute.
Did you say yes?
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, okay, here's one thing, is if this is an aggressive, angry person who traps you in a room, you feel like the only way you can get out, the only way you can get out of this room is you let this guy beat off in front of you, and you're fearful of your life.
ari shaffir
Most people don't really care.
I saw him on stage.
Everyone clapped like crazy.
They were so happy.
And when he goes, guys, I'm just going to do jokes tonight.
Everyone's like, fuck yes.
Just do jokes.
We just want to see what we loved about you two years ago.
joe rogan
Ten months ago.
ari shaffir
And Michael Vick, we just want you to see you throw.
We're done with that.
You did your crime or we still hate you.
There's nothing to do with how you got your job.
unidentified
He just yelled out racist shit.
ari shaffir
But nobody liked him on stage.
joe rogan
Yeah, you're right.
ari shaffir
So it's like, I'm not missing anything from you.
joe rogan
The thing about Louis is, you know, there's got to be some path of redemption for everybody.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
joe rogan
For everybody.
I mean, human beings vary wildly.
ari shaffir
Can Bill Cosby not go up at a prison talent show?
joe rogan
No.
ari shaffir
No?
joe rogan
No.
It's over.
ari shaffir
He can't even go up in prison?
joe rogan
No.
ari shaffir
Disagree.
joe rogan
No.
ari shaffir
I'm kidding.
Until you show me the connection to what he did versus this job, you know what I mean?
Pete Rose bet on baseball.
He hurt the job he was doing.
So that, you're like, you can't be in baseball anymore because you fucked over baseball.
joe rogan
But did he fuck over baseball by betting on it?
ari shaffir
Yeah, they show he probably threw some games.
joe rogan
Threw some games.
ari shaffir
Or he used his relievers in situations he wouldn't have, that he can't use them tomorrow, because you fucked over baseball.
joe rogan
That fucked over baseball.
unidentified
So baseball has shut its doors to you.
ari shaffir
If you steal jokes, yes.
Maybe there is a path to redemption.
Maybe.
But you fucked over jokes.
joe rogan
Well, you fucked over other comics.
ari shaffir
Yes, so you fucked over the experience you're talking about getting back into, but that guy can go to the supermarket.
joe rogan
Yes.
ari shaffir
He can work at another job because it has nothing—you haven't shown me a connection to another job.
joe rogan
See, the thing about the joke-stealing thing—and this is where it gets really, really weird—is there's no real punishment other than people deciding they don't like you because you're a joke thief.
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
And that is the real punishment.
ari shaffir
Like you're talking about, can Twitter take you down?
No, no, no.
joe rogan
What I'm saying is it's different than someone who steals cars.
ari shaffir
Right.
joe rogan
Someone steals cars...
ari shaffir
There's a punishment set up.
joe rogan
Yeah, you go to jail.
ari shaffir
It's illegal.
joe rogan
If someone steals jokes, like you've basically done the same thing.
You've stolen a thing.
You know, that thing is ethereal.
ari shaffir
Sort of.
joe rogan
Yeah, you saw the thing.
ari shaffir
It's also a little different because you can still do your jokes.
If I steal your car, you can't have your car anymore.
joe rogan
Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
If somebody goes on in front of you, like we know Mencia did, and does your headlock, your closing bit.
unidentified
On purpose just those days.
ari shaffir
On purpose to fuck with you.
joe rogan
On purpose to fuck with you.
He would do closing bits.
ari shaffir
The best is Freddie fucking with Bobby once.
And he was like, oh, you're gonna love this.
I mean, he would fuck with Bobby.
joe rogan
Bobby Lee, what'd he do?
ari shaffir
Yeah, but it wasn't to steal.
unidentified
Freddie Toto?
ari shaffir
Yeah, it was to fuck with Bobby.
joe rogan
What'd he say?
ari shaffir
You're going to love this next guy.
He's so funny, and Bobby, all he wanted was Freddie's support.
He looked up to him so hard, and he could never get it.
You're going to love this next guy.
He does this joke about selling corn on the side of the road.
He's like yelling, corn, corn, he yells.
So good.
He has this other bit about his dad.
joe rogan
He would tell his bits?
unidentified
He would just tell the ending punchlines of his bit.
joe rogan
Why would he do that?
ari shaffir
Just pull his legs out from under him.
joe rogan
That's a terrible thing to do.
ari shaffir
I mean, he was fucking with him.
But he wasn't doing to gain himself, only to hurt Bobby, and only in one moment that I ever saw.
But it was like, fuck, you got me bad.
joe rogan
Mmm.
ari shaffir
Yeah, I mean they were bitter enemies.
It was like- Why were they bitter enemies?
It's not about ratting them out to somebody a long time before.
The argument's way gone.
It's done.
But like, they hated each other back then.
Freddie hated Bobby.
joe rogan
Bobby hated him back only because- The thing about people getting caught, it's like the punishment's real, though.
It's almost better than going to jail.
ari shaffir
Yeah, it's like we know about you now.
joe rogan
Not only do we know about you now, but the public knows about you now.
And the disdain is palpable.
It's real.
And you see it not just with him, not just with Mencia, but there's a few of them.
ari shaffir
And you can tell the difference, too, between somebody going, that guy took that guy's joke versus that guy takes jokes.
You know what I mean?
That guy took that guy's joke.
That's out there and that's real.
But it doesn't quite stick as much as, like, we all just know that guy steals jokes.
It's not a possible...
It's like over and over again.
joe rogan
There's such a clarity, too, in the difference between the jokes they come up with on their own and the jokes that they steal.
ari shaffir
And sure, you can keep going up.
You can still sell out theaters.
So your punishment is, we know about you.
joe rogan
You can't sell out theaters, though.
That's what happens to them.
ari shaffir
Eventually, but a lot of them still do.
joe rogan
Name one.
ari shaffir
Dane Cook continued to sell at theaters while he does those things.
joe rogan
But it died off.
ari shaffir
Eventually, but a lot of people die off too.
But while it was happening, there was no real.
He was still doing massive numbers.
Mencia was still living better than most A-level comics.
Right now, you mean?
Even right now, actually.
He still makes more money than Mike Vecchione does.
Than really good comics and Big J does.
He probably still makes more money than I do, to be honest.
I'm doing as great as I've ever done.
It doesn't get taken away from you completely.
You'll never get the respect of your peers.
joe rogan
That's a big deal with us.
Ron White and I were talking about this in the back of the Comedy Store.
He was talking about a bunch of shit he was going through and splitting up and all this and that.
He goes, listen, at the end of the day, all I give a fuck about, do I have the love and respect of my peers?
ari shaffir
Yeah, and those guys don't have it, and it fucking drives them crazy.
You can take jokes and do whatever, but we're never going to look up to you, and that's what you want.
Nobody hates Larry.
Nobody hates Larry.
They might think he's lame, but nobody hates him.
joe rogan
Larry the Cable Guy?
ari shaffir
He's a great guy.
Wait, I want one more story before I go about MMA. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
This is really an MMA podcast?
It's kind of not, but it is.
ari shaffir
But that's how it goes.
We can go either way.
Release it however you want.
joe rogan
Listen, this fucking podcast is always like that, though.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
I did this thing.
You helped me organize it a little bit, or arrange it in my head, where I was really stoked on the experience that LA people have with medical marijuana.
And I said, it's not fair that other people don't get to have this experience of taking these breath strips at a UFC and how great it is.
And I was like, I'm going to have an event called Hunt for the Edible.
unidentified
Oh no!
ari shaffir
And I am going to hide marijuana, have a scavenger hunt.
At first I thought, like, have some clues and they'll come to me, I'll give it to them.
Like, a cop will do that and come to you.
And you're like, good point, good point, I've got to hide this.
So I would hide marijuana.
I mean drugs, but only marijuana, one-time mushrooms.
But at UFCs, I would have access to them beforehand.
When we went to the MGM, for the weigh-ins, half of it was shut down.
So the other half, I could just walk through freely.
And I would hide, I would tape these breath strips to somewhere.
The first one's underneath a bathroom sink in one of the bathrooms.
And draw clues on Twitter.
Release them every five minutes.
Plan them out ahead of time.
Where one was like, if you want to get high, go up a level.
And it was like, okay.
People were like, run up.
People got into it.
They run up levels.
And then until this guy was like, I think it's right here.
This bathroom sink.
Then he looked under it.
Undid it.
Had a note in there with the proper dosage.
You know?
I don't want to fuck anybody over.
And it became such a fun, fun time.
I got to assume the powers that be knew about it and said nothing.
Said plausible deniability.
I don't know.
I don't care.
joe rogan
Did I promote it?
ari shaffir
I forget.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
Did I tell people?
ari shaffir
No.
I don't think so.
joe rogan
Yeah.
So how do you think they knew about it?
ari shaffir
Twitter.
I might have mentioned it on the podcast or something.
But it was so fun for me.
And I would do it over and over again.
And then I would go back.
I remember looking times where I would tape it to a pillar somewhere, like the pearl.
And I would go to see if it's found.
And I would see an usher as I was looking.
And he didn't know I was the one who hit it.
He would just go, what you're looking for is no longer here.
Because I guess a bunch of people kept coming to this pillar.
They would follow the clues.
No one said...
joe rogan
Angry Usher.
ari shaffir
No one said, it's found now.
Cut the game.
Later, I would go in and delete all the clues.
I'm not looking to fuck over the cops or anything like that.
But it was so fun.
One time, nobody found one.
I was always leaving.
I'm still here.
I'm fucking taking it off.
I'm using it myself.
But I usually hide two of them underneath a fucking fire extinguisher.
Something like that.
Now, one time...
Somebody found it and then came down and sat like right behind me and Chandra.
And then these ushers slash security guards came and found the guy and said, hey, I need you to come with me.
And they took him out.
And I was like, fuck.
He kept his mouth.
He wasn't like, it was this guy in front of me.
And I sat there for about 30 seconds.
And I was like, I gotta go, Chandra.
I gotta go fucking...
I gotta turn myself in on this.
joe rogan
Wow.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
And she was like, I'm not letting this fucking kid do...
I gotta say, no, I hit it.
I'll figure it out.
And then I went up there and they were like, oh no, they were just moving our seats because we were sitting in the wrong seats.
unidentified
We were fine.
You were ready to rack yourself out.
ari shaffir
And I was like, oh, thank God, thank God.
joe rogan
But didn't you get busted in like Minneapolis or some shit?
ari shaffir
Yeah, at the Mall of America.
That wasn't at a UFC. At the Mall of America I got found.
joe rogan
Oh, you kept doing it outside the UFC. Yeah, sure.
ari shaffir
Actually, I never did Mushrooms.
Mushrooms was in Winnipeg.
It was not at a UFC. It was just at comedy shows.
But the UFC experience was so fun for me to give these people the drugs that I took.
And I want you to experience this heavily blown out on weed experience that me and Diaz get to do.
And it was fun to spread that joy.
It really was fun.
unidentified
It was one of my favorite memories of this UFC. I wonder if you could do that again now that it's totally legal.
ari shaffir
Oh, maybe.
You're right.
joe rogan
In California and Nevada, they're both entirely legal.
Legal, legal.
Wow.
Massachusetts, legal, legal.
ari shaffir
Wow.
joe rogan
There's a bunch of states now, you know, and now all of Canada.
ari shaffir
All of Canada, that's right.
joe rogan
October 17th, Canada fucking went whole hog, baby.
ari shaffir
I wonder if I could do it again.
joe rogan
Salute, Canada.
ari shaffir
Salute.
joe rogan
You bad motherfuckers.
ari shaffir
Yeah, finally coming through.
joe rogan
Congratulations.
That's a beautiful thing they did.
They made it legal nationwide.
unidentified
One hour.
ari shaffir
One hour before the first guy got pulled over for smoking weed in his car.
joe rogan
Probably, right?
ari shaffir
No, that's what it was.
It was an hour after it was fully legalized, the guy got busted for smoking weed in the car.
Smoke weed before you get in the car, you idiots.
joe rogan
Come on, stupid.
Don't be ridiculous.
ari shaffir
Yeah, but that was one of my favorite memories of UFCs, having that thing.
joe rogan
We had some good goddamn times.
And it was funny that it took me a long time to figure out that I could combine the UFC and comedy.
ari shaffir
Yeah, I remember you taking us with us a few times, and then I was like, dude, why are we doing nothing on Friday nights?
And you're like, what do you mean?
Like, I can't schedule a show.
Can you schedule a show?
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
I mean, we're going to do guest spots somewhere.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Let's just make a couple bucks.
joe rogan
How did we start doing it?
ari shaffir
I think we would...
I think, honestly, when we did, like, The Pearl or something, Court McCown would be like, hey, if you want to come in and do a set, you can.
Like, Dom Herrera had, like, sets.
He's like, yeah, come do a set.
I remember smoking cigars with me, you, him, Kevin James, and just, like, the Common Bar.
unidentified
Yeah, that's right.
ari shaffir
I hated those clubs, but those Common Bars were the best.
joe rogan
Those were great, and we could sneak around back then.
unidentified
Yeah, exactly.
ari shaffir
We didn't get attacked.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
We didn't get mobbed.
ari shaffir
Yeah.
And then eventually it was like, hey, instead of just doing occasional guest spots, why don't we do clubs?
And the clubs would get full.
I remember Guy Torrey doing something maybe in Omaha.
And he was like, well, how about a midnight Friday show?
Can we do that?
You don't want to bump anybody.
joe rogan
Right.
ari shaffir
But then you would schedule it months and months out so nobody was scheduled.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
And then theaters was just one night anyway.
And it just became like we're not wasting time doing these fun UFC stuff.
We're actually working.
joe rogan
If you ever want to do those again, man, we could do some.
ari shaffir
It became harder as I started headlining to be like, I got to give up time to go do that.
I remember one time you were like, can you come do Dallas?
You know how there's shows that are important to you?
It might not be the most money or anything, but it's important to you.
Case in point, I went to do the Wilbur, my first time doing the Wilbur, you know?
And that was one of the ones I remember you doing, me opening for you, and then I'm doing two shows at the Wilbur.
I'm like, this is, I want to show Boston, an important comedy city.
joe rogan
Yeah.
ari shaffir
So then I was like, I needed to get, like, a really good opener.
I trust somebody.
I got Joe List.
It was like, you're a headliner.
I need you to open for me.
And luckily, he'd been open for Louie, and his schedule became clear.
Because of that.
Lucky for us.
That's why I opened every show.
Lucky for us.
But yeah, and you were like, you had this show in Dallas, and you're like, can you do it?
I'm like, I'm doing the fucking San Francisco Comedy Festivals.
Like, how much are you getting paid?
I'm like, honestly, like 400 bucks.
It's not about that.
I agreed.
And you're like, I'll give you $5,000.
I'll cancel now.
Let me get off the phone right now and I'll go ahead and finish the process of canceling.
joe rogan
I wanted you to do it because it would be more fun.
ari shaffir
Yeah, there's that too.
joe rogan
It would be more fun.
I mean, we've had some fucking fun times, man.
unidentified
Blast.
joe rogan
And when I talk to people about the road, they go, oh, the road is lonely.
I'm like, you're doing it wrong.
You're supposed to do it with your best friends.
ari shaffir
Do some fun shit with it.
I try to stay later on Sunday and go hiking.
If it's cold New York and I'm in Austin, fucking stay in the warmth a little bit and do something fun.
joe rogan
That's a good move.
ari shaffir
But yeah, but you and your friends is the number one way to do it.
joe rogan
It's a different thing, man.
The Entourage thing, when we did that, it was too big.
It was too much work.
It was too hard to organize and get everybody together.
It was too much pressure on me.
I was like, I don't want to deal with this.
ari shaffir
You had to be an administrator, too, with all those people.
joe rogan
Even two openers, or two acts, it's too much work.
One person is fine.
ari shaffir
The only reason you brought a second opener was because the one opener was so irresponsible.
You couldn't trust that he'd be there.
joe rogan
But he was so brilliant that I refused to not hire him whenever I could work with him.
ari shaffir
The obvious answer is, get someone else.
But you were like, no, I'll get a buffer in case.
joe rogan
Well, my feeling on Diaz is always that I've always had a special place in my heart for him.
Because he reminded me so much of my friend Johnny.
Johnny B. from New York.
ari shaffir
Johnny the pool player?
joe rogan
Yeah.
And I knew what Joey was.
He was this brilliant guy who had a really hard time with reality.
With life.
With civilization.
But in those moments of brilliance, he was worth everything to me.
So I was like, look, what I'm going to try to do with this guy is I'm going to try to Somehow or another, because I was in mainstream.
I had a television show.
I had clubs that I could headline.
I'm like, I'm going to bring this guy into the world, and I'm going to show him how I do it, and I'm going to indoctrinate him.
I'm going to...
He's older than me, and I respect him, and I'm not a mentor to him, but I am someone who was more advanced in comedy, but was a giant fan of Joey Diaz.
So I was like, I just want to figure out a way where it can work for this guy.
Because I know if this guy's just out there hustling and being crazy and doing coke, it's going to go off the rails.
Whatever I can do.
And I think it helped him that someone who was established, A guy who legitimately me didn't give a fuck what he did.
I wanted him to be wild.
ari shaffir
You let him be himself.
joe rogan
I wanted him to be himself.
ari shaffir
Yeah, you loved it wilder than better.
joe rogan
I wanted him to be fun.
I never cared about what went on.
I wanted fun for everybody.
It was important for me that I'd be the only one.
That's one of the biggest poisons ever with comics.
Be the only funny one.
unidentified
I'm the headliner.
joe rogan
I'm the headliner.
I'm the only one who kills, and you guys are doing too well, or you guys are doing too much time.
For me, it was like, go have fun.
We're here to party.
This is a party.
ari shaffir
Case in point, Denver once, I mean, I just did way too long.
It was just me and you, I think, but I did 44 minutes.
And Red Band's like, dude, you did like 45 minutes.
I was like, no, I did not.
Just didn't realize.
And he's like, you did.
I'm like, there's no way.
I did 25 or 30. But that's such a good club, the comedy works.
And he goes, I recorded it on video.
I can show you the starting point and the ending point.
And he did.
I was like, oh, fuck.
I've told you this before.
But I was like, dude, I'm so sorry.
That was way wrong.
He's like, no, it didn't matter.
I'm like, no, no, I'm really sorry.
He goes, no, no, it didn't matter.
I'm like, no, but I shouldn't do that.
He's like, no, no, you killed.
And then I went up and killed.
So, you haven't made a connection to me where it does actually matter.
joe rogan
It doesn't matter.
ari shaffir
We both killed.
Why is it an issue?
joe rogan
If it goes off the rails one time and you go long, like, who gives a shit?
ari shaffir
Yeah, and it's not a consistent thing.
joe rogan
It's just fun.
It's just that the whole thing to all of us should be...
ari shaffir
We know the process.
Try some shit.
joe rogan
Have fun and the audience has a great time.
That's all I wanted.
And to have also that stand-up wasn't something that I had to do for money.
Like stand-up was almost like supplementing, whether it was news radio money or Fear Factor money.
It's like I had all this money that my bills were okay.
I didn't have to think about it.
So I didn't worry about getting kicked out of clubs.
I didn't worry about not getting booked.
I'm like, so what?
Like, we're here to have fun.
And we rolled through the entire country like that.
And it worked.
ari shaffir
God, it was fun.
joe rogan
Goddamn, dude.
We had the time of our lives.
When you look back, if we look back as, you know, senior citizens at the fucking, the rare great times that we had consistently all across the country...
ari shaffir
The offstage stuff was great.
For me, onstage, I was getting more stage time than I would get in LA, and I was getting this weird exposure to an actual good crowd where I could experiment with pausing.
I wouldn't be afraid of losing a crowd.
joe rogan
Packed shows, you're doing a half hour consistently, two shows a night.
ari shaffir
I was talking to Michelle.
She just went to a Wolf.
She just went to, I think, Commonworks for the first time.
And I was like, oh, how is it?
She goes, it's not fair.
They're laughing at setups.
It's just too good.
It doesn't make sense.
I'm like, it's a victory lap.
You should enjoy it.
And then I remember, like, I think that might have been the first time I went with Brogan.
unidentified
It was.
ari shaffir
And I was doing so well that he's like, oh, you're coming with me again.
It was almost like...
It was an unfair showcase.
joe rogan
Well, I already knew you were funny.
ari shaffir
Yeah, I guess that's why you asked me to go with one in the first place.
joe rogan
Yeah, but I was like, this is the perfect club for anybody to try out in because it's so set up.
ari shaffir
It's like a wind-assisted 100-yard dash with heavy gusts of wind.
joe rogan
Right.
It's almost like you have a sale.
Yeah.
ari shaffir
Oh, they were fun.
joe rogan
Yeah, we had a great fucking time, dude.
And it worked.
Look.
I mean, look how all the people that went with us, whether it's Diaz or Duncan or you or Segura, they're murdering now all over the country.
Murdering.
ari shaffir
Doing quite well.
joe rogan
If I was a talent scout, dude, I'd be 100%.
ari shaffir
No, you would not.
Think harder.
joe rogan
Okay, let's not.
ari shaffir
Okay, I'm not going to say I was going to write down the names, but you know you're not 100%.
joe rogan
Pretty goddamn close.
ari shaffir
You have a great percentage.
joe rogan
Because the people that I wasn't 100% on, they failed themselves.
ari shaffir
Right, they also had the potential to be, and then it's on them.
joe rogan
Well, discipline is something that a lot of people lack, man.
And it's very, very unfortunate.
And we're seeing it right now, Bert Kreischer.
You're behind by a thousand points, motherfucker.
ari shaffir
Can I promote two dates before we go?
I'm doing a live reading with Danish and O'Neal in New York November 11th of a screenplay I wrote in college.
joe rogan
Oh, I've been hearing about this in your podcast.
Oh, by the way, your podcast on Sober October when you're walking around New York is goddamn awesome.
ari shaffir
I'm so angry and full of fucking withdrawal.
joe rogan
So fucking hilarious.
ari shaffir
Thanks.
joe rogan
You're my favorite when you're angry.
Angry Ari is my favorite Ari.
When you're so fucking furious!
That's my favorite Ari.
ari shaffir
And then I got a European tour coming.
November 16th starts in Reykjavik and it ends December 9th in Zurich and all sorts of cities.
So please check out AriTheGreat.com for tickets.
I'd love to see you out there.
Brussels, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, all sorts of places.
joe rogan
Boom.
And there's ten more days, ladies and gentlemen.
ari shaffir
Ten more days.
And then goo that hair on!
joe rogan
Ten more days and then we're going crazy.
ari shaffir
I can't wait for that.
joe rogan
November 5th will be the wrap-up show where someone besides Bert Kreischer will get that championship belt.
ari shaffir
I might go work out right now.
joe rogan
I'm going to go work out right now.
I have to.
I have to twist a blade.
All right.
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