April 27, 2010 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:56:46
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| Three, two, one. | ||
| The great and powerful Pat Miletic. | ||
| Listen, man, it's an honor to have you in here. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| I've been watching your show for a long time, and you're a contrarian thinker. | ||
| I love it. | ||
| And you've prompted a lot of people to think differently, right? | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| I think information prompts people to think differently. | ||
| Well, when they get pounded with it enough and hear it enough, eventually it starts to sink in, right? | ||
| Yeah, I think so, man. | ||
| And when you talk about guys who have been around, like, you were one of the real pioneers of MMA. You know, it's one of the reasons why I really wanted to have you in here. | ||
| I remember back when you were fighting. | ||
| I remember back when you fought Matt Hume, and what was that like? | ||
| Extreme Battlecade. | ||
| Yeah, that was John Peretti's thing. | ||
| I mean, dude, you've been around. | ||
| You've been around. | ||
| You were the early days. | ||
| Bare knuckle. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| No, you know, and the thing is, I always tell people... | ||
| Didn't you fight Dan Severn? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| We fought to a draw. | ||
| Who was 270 pounds at the time? | ||
| Yeah, and he was still obviously pretty tough back then, still pretty mobile. | ||
| It was not a fun fight, I can tell you, carrying his weight around for 30 minutes, but it was tough. | ||
| But Matt Hume is the guy that made me realize that I wasn't a fighter yet, because I was 15-0, I think I was ranked fourth in the world. | ||
| I fought Matt, ragdolled him for basically the whole first round, threw him around like a ragdoll, but he was just biding his time and waiting, and he caught me with some knees and damaged my nose. | ||
| Yeah, the referee and the doctor stopped the fight because back then it was very controversial. | ||
| They didn't want a guy with a crushed nose or whatever. | ||
| And so they stopped the fight. | ||
| But I realized at that point he knew a lot more than I did. | ||
| Yeah, that was an interesting fight because I totally disagree with that stoppage. | ||
| And I was watching. | ||
| I was like, this is crazy. | ||
| How could you stop a fight for a broken nose? | ||
| Well, I got headbutted. | ||
| I used to spar with a lot of pro boxers. | ||
| And I got head-butted by a pro boxer, and he separated the cartilage from the bone. | ||
| So that gap is still there. | ||
| So that's what they felt. | ||
| My nose was bleeding a little bit, so that's why they stopped it. | ||
| Right, but broken noses are just normal. | ||
| It happens, right. | ||
| And it's not dangerous. | ||
| It's like, maybe somebody saw those movies where you, like, remember in a movie, a guy would hit the bottom of a guy's nose and drive the bone up into his brain? | ||
| It's like Mike Tyson talking about it, right? | ||
| Yeah, he did. | ||
|
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He hit him like this and pushed the bone up through the brain. | |
| That might be the worst Mike Tyson impression I've ever heard. | ||
| I'm going to let that go though. | ||
| I'm doing my best, doing my best, man. | ||
| Yeah, but back then, yeah, nobody really knew what was dangerous, what wasn't dangerous. | ||
| It wasn't like a body of fights that we could draw upon. | ||
| And I was doing televised debates with politicians at the time. | ||
| Were you really? | ||
| To keep the sport legal in the state that I was scheduled to fight in. | ||
| So think of how stressful it is to train for a fight, stay healthy, try and pay your bills, do all the stuff you're doing, And at the same time, I'm debating politicians in that state who are trying to pass a bill to ban the sport that I'm scheduled to fight in that state. | ||
| I'm panicking. | ||
| I'm freaking out. | ||
| So I'd do my homework and I'd get in debates like Representative Bolin from Illinois. | ||
| By the time we got done with the debate, he goes... | ||
| I'll agree with Mr. Miletic. | ||
| He's obviously, you know, I think they expected to go into a debate with a punch-drunk boxer. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| And by the time the debate was done, I'd crushed him, and he's like, well, maybe if we could just do away with headbutts. | ||
| You know, that was his rebuttal at the end of it. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, I see how they think, and I see that. | ||
| But I think today, even to this day, I don't mind headbutts. | ||
| I don't either, because you train for them. | ||
| If they're legal, that's what you're training for. | ||
| And it's a legit technique. | ||
| Like, why is it okay to slam your elbow into someone's face, but it's not okay to slam your forehead into someone's face? | ||
| Right. | ||
| And it's very effective. | ||
| If a guy's tying you up in the guard and his head's right there, you can do that. | ||
| And he can't really do it back to you. | ||
| I mean, I watched when I was in my first no-holds-barred tournament in Chicago. | ||
| God, I don't even remember the name of it anymore. | ||
| It's been so long. | ||
| But... | ||
| I saw a guy get headbutted 42 times in the first round, and he ended up winning with a triangle. | ||
|
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Wow! | |
| He ended up winning the fight. | ||
| It was Marcel Leverich versus this guy named Johnson. | ||
| Mike Johnson, I think his name was. | ||
| Marcel Leverich ends up losing after crushing him with headbutts. | ||
| Mike Johnson's in the shower. | ||
| They're running cold water on him trying to wake him back up, and he collapses and they have to throw in an alternate. | ||
|
unidentified
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Wow! | |
| But it was, yeah, headbutts obviously were legal then. | ||
| Wow! | ||
| Yeah, headbutts, like, that was Mark the Hammer, Coleman's moves. | ||
| Knees on the ground. | ||
| Knees on the ground, knees to the head on the ground. | ||
| But, I mean, think about when Coleman was in his prime, he was all about headbutts. | ||
| And when he fought Maurice, and he took Maurice down, that was back in the days when headbutts were legal. | ||
| Maurice Smith, he defended against all that. | ||
| Doing all of this. | ||
| Yeah, it's just another technique. | ||
| But without that technique, it's sort of like, when I... When I realized that Taekwondo was very limited was when I started working out with kickboxers. | ||
| And I started getting punched in the face. | ||
| And I was like, oh, no. | ||
| Like, what have I learned? | ||
| I've learned this, you know, thing that is only good if somebody doesn't punch you in the face. | ||
| Like, this is terrible. | ||
| But, you know, you were an open thinker, obviously, and you realized. | ||
| So the thing was... | ||
| With early MMA, everybody was so tied to their technique, it's like being tied to a religion and refusing to see something else, right? | ||
| Yeah, there was a lot of that. | ||
| So guys who are taekwondo experts, wrestlers, this, that, they were so... | ||
| So attached to their art that they refused to learn anything else and they'd just die because of it. | ||
| They'd get crushed because of it. | ||
| And I just early on went, these guys are dumbasses. | ||
| Why wouldn't you want to know how to do a lot of things? | ||
| You've got to have a big toolbox. | ||
| There was always a lot of pride in your art, right? | ||
| There was always a lot of guys like wrestlers who were only into wrestling or kickboxers only into Muay Thai. | ||
| They just wanted to stand up. | ||
| They didn't want to go to the ground. | ||
| They just wanted to stand up. | ||
| And that just costs you in the long run. | ||
| Especially when you see like a real complete fighter. | ||
| Like a guy like Mighty Mouse. | ||
| Like a guy like Mighty Mouse is the top of the heap. | ||
| Trained by Matt Hume, right? | ||
| Yeah, right. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And he can do everything. | ||
| I mean, it doesn't matter if you're a wrestler, it doesn't matter if you're a kickboxer, you're fucked. | ||
| You're fucked everywhere with that guy. | ||
| And it's because he's got this just incredibly well-rounded skill sets. | ||
| And I think The days of the specialists, I think, are still kind of here. | ||
| I'm surprised that that's still the case. | ||
| Yeah, there's a few guys that can still pull it off. | ||
| But the guys that can pull it off are like the Damian Mayas or the Wonder Boys. | ||
| Wonder Boys is such an elite striker that if he can keep the fight standing, he can kind of work a lot of guys. | ||
| And because so many guys have not done karate and things like that, he's like a Rubik's Cube they can't figure out. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, he's long in that weird sideways stance with that front leg. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Those guys who have a good front leg, like that karate style, point fighting style, that they're used to blitzing in with that good front leg, very hard to gauge that distance. | ||
| It's so different. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think Woodley did the best job of anybody in fighting him. | ||
| And I think that's like a road map for it. | ||
| Because people booed Woodley and gave Woodley a lot of shit. | ||
| But look, Woodley's the one who hurt him in both fights. | ||
| And that's the way you gotta fight that guy. | ||
| You can't just charge after that guy. | ||
| And the criticisms of Woodley, in my mind, I think, you know, look, that's a two-man dance, right? | ||
| Woodley kept his title. | ||
| Ultimately, that's all that matters. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| If I'm the champ, I'm just trying to keep my title. | ||
| I'm doing enough to win. | ||
| I'm not there to be the most exciting fighter. | ||
| That was my mentality, because I fought totally different Before I got to the UFC, I was just a psychopath and go out and just go 100 miles an hour until the guy was done. | ||
| But once you get in the UFC, then it's, okay, we can cut you if you lose. | ||
| It's like, okay, now I've got to change the way I fight. | ||
| Well, there's also the win bonus. | ||
| I mean, especially now. | ||
| Did they have the win bonus back then? | ||
| Yeah, that to me is a real issue. | ||
| I think a guy should be paid what they get paid. | ||
| I think if you have a contract, the contract for X amount of money. | ||
| If you have points on the pay-per-view, that's on top of that. | ||
| But the idea that your win or loss could be in the hands of what we have deemed completely incompetent judges. | ||
| I see it every week? | ||
| Every week. | ||
| That's brutal. | ||
| And you do a lot of commentary yourself. | ||
| In these smaller shows, I'd imagine sometimes it's even worse. | ||
| I mean, we've gotten in trouble to the point where we had people come to us and go, look, the promoters from different organizations, when there was really, really bad decisions, you know, when I was working with Michael Ciavello especially, we were brutal on the athletic commissions. | ||
| And we'd hear about it and go... | ||
| You guys need to back off. | ||
| I've heard it too. | ||
| I've heard it from athletic commissions too. | ||
| I say go fuck yourself. | ||
| There's guys in there that are fighting for their life. | ||
| They literally train for months and months. | ||
| And someone who literally doesn't even understand martial arts is giving these guys a decision. | ||
| A loss or a win. | ||
| And that's 50% of their money. | ||
| And that's crazy. | ||
| I remember the first time I witnessed it, as far as a coach, when my IFL team was fighting in Texas. | ||
| We were fighting, I think, Boss's team. | ||
| And I looked at the judges and all of them, one of them had a bouffant hairdo, an old lady, and then two old guys with white hair. | ||
| And I went back to the locker room and I go, guys, You can't let this go to the judges. | ||
| They're one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. | ||
| They know nothing about what they're watching. | ||
| We are in deep shit if we can't do it. | ||
| Well, I think boxing is a very complicated art, and I think it's a very difficult thing to score, but it's way more easy to score than martial arts are. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| There's so much going on. | ||
| When a fight goes to the ground, I mean, I have a friend who's a judge who literally said to me in the middle of a fight, one of the female judges, or referees rather, judges, one of the female judges turned to him and go, what is he doing? | ||
| Like, what is he doing? | ||
| The guy was going for a Kimura. | ||
| What is he doing? | ||
| What is he doing? | ||
| What are you doing? | ||
| Adelaide Berg, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We've heard, you talked about her during one of the UFCs, right? | ||
| Yeah, me and Cormier were joking around the other day. | ||
| Very nice lady. | ||
| Very nice lady. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But like I said, my mom's a really nice lady too. | ||
| I wouldn't want her judging any fights. | ||
| But I said to Adelaide Byrd before the Pride in Las Vegas, Lawler was fighting in that one, right? | ||
| And I thought, I'm just going to ask. | ||
| And I walked up to her and I go, excuse me, I'm new to the sport. | ||
| Could you tell me what a triangle choke is? | ||
| And she looked at me and went... | ||
| Just walked away. | ||
| She walked away? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| Maybe she knew who you were. | ||
| Maybe she's like, this is a trap. | ||
| Fucking Pat Miller just trying to trap me here. | ||
| Guy with cauliflower ears is asking me a question. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, exactly. | |
| That's true. | ||
| We're new to this sport. | ||
| That's hilarious. | ||
| You probably had like a transparent grin. | ||
| Like you couldn't hold it back. | ||
| You know those grins? | ||
| It's sad that this goes on. | ||
| It's awful. | ||
| They suspend fighters constantly, but when are they going to start suspending referees and judges? | ||
| I think I've only seen it one time. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| I mean, judges and for sure referees as well. | ||
| But I think that the real thing that's so disappointing to me is that there's a wealth of martial arts experts out there. | ||
| Like, there's so many. | ||
| There's so many. | ||
| Good coaches that would be great judges. | ||
| There's so many great ex-fighters. | ||
| There's so many people that are just really well-versed in martial arts that'd be able to tell. | ||
| And I also think three people is a ridiculously small number. | ||
| I think for your- Like five judges? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah! | |
| Like five judges would- I think you would lose a lot of the shitty decisions. | ||
| That's a good idea. | ||
| Because if it's two and one, and there's sometimes when you get a split decision, you're like, what in the fuck? | ||
| One person saw this completely wrong, and the other two guys got it right. | ||
| Thank God the other two guys were there. | ||
| Well, if there's five people, and this happens more than once, you say, okay, we've got a weak link here. | ||
| Let's get rid of this person. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Let's get rid of this person. | ||
| One judge will have it unanimous one way, and the other judges will have it unanimous the other way. | ||
| It's impossible. | ||
| They should be held accountable. | ||
| Someone should have to sit down with them and say, God, explain. | ||
| What are you seeing? | ||
| Let's watch the round, sit down with me, and tell me how you think this guy who's getting the fuck beat out of him is winning. | ||
| It's criminal, dude. | ||
| Some of it is. | ||
| Some of the kids I've seen screwed up. | ||
| It's heartbreaking. | ||
| It is. | ||
| And it literally is like stealing money from these kids. | ||
| I just don't like the win bonus, man. | ||
| I don't think anybody fights harder for it. | ||
| See, and I don't even necessarily subscribe to Fight of the Night and Knockout of the Night and stuff like that. | ||
| I think they just bring back the yellow cards. | ||
| For stalling type stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| How Pride did it. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| I think that's a great way to do things. | ||
| And when Pride did it, what did they take, 10% of your purse? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| And they would end up, I mean, you'd get DQ'd eventually, right? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yes. | |
| They'd pull the red card and you're done. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| If it was more than one yellow card, you'd get DQ'd. | ||
| So they would give you a yellow card if they thought that you were either doing something illegal or if you were not engaging. | ||
| Stalling, just stalling, whatever. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, in college wrestling, they knew that they had to change things, right? | ||
| They had to speed up the action, and they started calling stalling a lot faster in college wrestling, and it changed college wrestling. | ||
| Guys get after it now. | ||
| You know, my problem with it, though, is that there's referees that separate fighters when they're working real hard against the cage. | ||
| And I think, again, it's guys who don't understand. | ||
| They don't understand how difficult this is. | ||
| When you have one guy who's trying to take the other guy down, the other guy's trying to defend, they're landing shots in between, trying to open up space, and then the referee will say, keep working. | ||
| I'm going to separate you guys. | ||
| You don't work. | ||
| They're working. | ||
| What the fuck are you watching? | ||
| Yeah, they're battling. | ||
| They're battling. | ||
| They literally don't understand the position. | ||
| And that's a giant problem. | ||
| Think about how many referees have never truly trained. | ||
| Right. | ||
| A lot. | ||
| A lot. | ||
| And if they did train, it was a long fucking time ago. | ||
| A lot of the guys going in there with big fat guts and they just... | ||
| How many times have you called fights in all the years you've been calling fights and been saying, he's out, he's out, he's out, stop the fight, stop the fight, stop the fight? | ||
| I wonder if you're so close to it that you don't see it as well. | ||
| That's not an excuse. | ||
| That's not an excuse. | ||
| Because, you know... | ||
| You've trained for so many years in martial arts, right? | ||
| You know when somebody's unconscious from a choke. | ||
| You know when a joint's getting destroyed. | ||
| You've been around it enough. | ||
| You've trained high-level enough where you see it. | ||
| You can see their stomach where it's going in and out really hard. | ||
| You know they're unconscious, right? | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| Where referees look at somebody and their eyes are wide open. | ||
| Well, his eyes are open, so he must be conscious. | ||
| You're a moron. | ||
| Yeah, you don't understand. | ||
| What are your thoughts on forcing tap-outs if a guy gets his arm broken? | ||
| That's a controversial thing. | ||
| Stopping a fight. | ||
| What do you think about Tim Sylvia and Frank Mir? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, Tim got his forearms snapped. | ||
| That was a crazy one. | ||
| Because in that one I kind of agree with her because it wasn't an elbow. | ||
| It was the middle of the arm. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Both forearm bones went at the same time. | ||
| So I didn't see that angle. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Tim's back was to us in the corner. | ||
| And Herb stops it, and Tim gets up and he's like, what the, you know, doing a great acting job, right? | ||
| Tim, you know, for whatever reason was able to pull that off. | ||
| I mean, that's not a pleasant feeling, obviously, having your arms snap in half. | ||
|
unidentified
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And Tim gets up and he's like yelling at Herb. | |
| I go in, I start yelling at Herb, and Herb's like, Pat, I swear to God, his arm is broken. | ||
| He's pleased. | ||
| And then I see the replay on the big screen, and I go, all right, Herb. | ||
| Well, I remember the crowd was booing, and then we played the replay back, and I'm like, watch it, watch it, right here, snap. | ||
| And you hear everybody go, oh! | ||
| And then I told Tim, I go, wave to the crowd when we walk out of the cage with your broken arm. | ||
| So Tim goes like this and waves. | ||
|
unidentified
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Jesus Christ. | |
| And then we got backstage and the doctor looked at it and I go, how bad is it? | ||
| And he goes, oh, it fucking hurts. | ||
| This hurts. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, it was bad. | |
| So the doctor that did it was a good friend of mine, orthopedic guy, who I trained for many years. | ||
| He was a bull rider at one time. | ||
| And then became an orthopedic surgeon and then trained with me in kickboxing, right? | ||
| Tough guy. | ||
| Tough dude from Texas. | ||
| I would imagine. | ||
| And he goes, I've never had to order plates for a tibia bone to replace, to put somebody's forearm bones back together. | ||
| He goes, they're as big as the normal human's tibia. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Tim's a giant. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| His bones were massive. | ||
| He goes, they don't even make, I had to use tibia plates. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Did that heal 100%? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because it was a long time though, right? | ||
| He really struggled with that. | ||
| I remember him saying thank you to Herb Dean for saving his career. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because, you know, if he let him go on and that thing got thrashed... | ||
| That thing's hanging down here and everything else. | ||
| Or especially if it goes... | ||
| Once it breaks through the skin, that becomes a giant issue for infections and all kinds of... | ||
| Here it is right here. | ||
| Jamie pulled it up. | ||
| Frank Mir, that motherfucker has broken more arms... | ||
| They're not showing it right here? | ||
| It was right on the cup. | ||
| Here's the replay. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's another thing about metal cups. | ||
| That's a weird little loophole. | ||
| Here it is. | ||
| That's a weird angle, too. | ||
| Look at that. | ||
| Pop! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Ooh, daddy. | ||
| That's a weird angle. | ||
| That was ugly. | ||
| That was ugly. | ||
| Those metal cups, man, that's a weird steel loophole. | ||
| Like, you could still wear those tie cups, those steel cups. | ||
| I think you should be able to. | ||
| But you're kicking metal, and it's also a crazy fulcrum. | ||
| If you've got a guy on an arm bar, you've got a fucking metal rod there. | ||
| I like it, though. | ||
| I like it. | ||
| I'm sure you do. | ||
| But the thing with the old-timers that taught me in K1 and Muay Thai was you take those metal cups and you take sheet metal screws from the inside out, and you put the sheet metal screws through and then back them back out so there's raised edges everywhere on it, right? | ||
| So you wear that. | ||
| So if they knee you or kick you in the groin, it shreds their meat up on their knee or their foot. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So that's what the old TIE fighters would do. | ||
| That's the way they would do their cups. | ||
| So that's how I started doing it. | ||
| So if they're going to low blow me, they're going to shred their freaking leg up. | ||
| The problem with that is it also works if you get a guy and you mount him and you drive that thing into his sternum. | ||
| Then you've got like barbs. | ||
| You're shoving into his sternum. | ||
| That seems like a weapon. | ||
| It seems a little bit like a little cheating. | ||
| Yeah, I... There was a couple other guys that did that back in the day, especially the Chicago circuit, because I was fighting kickboxing in Chicago a lot. | ||
| Was Chicago like a rougher circuit? | ||
| Dude, they would do K1 rules, Muay Thai, and then I started in the PKC style originally, and I hated it because it was, you know, the light tree, like the dragsters. | ||
| The old PKC was you get one kick in, one light lights. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
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PKC, is that like PKA? Yeah, basically it was all the same stuff. | |
| Same kind of shit, like above the waist kickboxing? | ||
| Yeah, with the silk pants and all the bullshit. | ||
| Right, those were great. | ||
| The boots, those foam boots on. | ||
| So when I started, I wasn't flexible, right? | ||
| I was a wrestler who had some boxing experience, and the reason they did that was so boxers wouldn't come in and destroy everybody. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| So the karate guys could survive and do pretty well. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So the... | ||
| Just having to get the allotted eight kicks per round, I hated it because it was all kick above the waist. | ||
| I wasn't that flexible. | ||
| I was pretty shitty at kicks when I first started, right? | ||
| So it was just a waste of time. | ||
| And then I ran into the Muay Thai thing and the K1 rules fights, and I went, this is my thing. | ||
| I can kick them in the legs, thank God. | ||
| Well, I remember the first time I got kicked in the leg, I was like, oh, this is such a game changer. | ||
| Because in Taekwondo, it was illegal. | ||
| It was illegal to kick below the waist, and it was illegal to punch in the face. | ||
| So it was great for learning dexterity of the legs, but the moment I started training with Thai guys, and I got kicked once, just once, I went, oh! | ||
| You should do this. | ||
| This should be the thing. | ||
| It's so painful. | ||
| It's so painful. | ||
| Well, it's weird. | ||
| It's not just painful. | ||
| It's like your leg goes dead. | ||
| It's this weird feeling. | ||
| You're like, oh, Christ. | ||
| It's so effective. | ||
| And also that you could do it from such a close range. | ||
| They can be in a clinch and blast somebody in the leg and hurt them, right? | ||
| So the worst experience of my life sparring... | ||
| Was Arthur Mariana Souza. | ||
| He was the guy in the old IVCs in Brazil that laid Vanderlei Silva's eye wide open and all the meat was hanging down past his eye. | ||
| That was Arthur Mariana Souza. | ||
| I remember that guy. | ||
| And he was a great striker, trained in Holland for a lot of years, and he would come up with Omri Batesh and live with me. | ||
| When Batesh was the elite guy on the planet grappling, right? | ||
| So we had the best of both worlds. | ||
| We had a wicked striker and one of the best grapplers in the world. | ||
| And he'd come up and we'd just train hard, right? | ||
| For six, eight weeks at a time. | ||
| And Arthur started low kicking the shit out of everybody in my gym. | ||
| We weren't great Muay Thai guys at that time. | ||
| But the experience of watching... | ||
| He started... | ||
| That's the thing. | ||
| He started getting to the back leg, right? | ||
|
unidentified
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Oh, yeah. | |
| He could throw the cross and step outside and come back and just tap you in the same spot over and over on your back leg. | ||
| And you're always taking your weight off that leg off the cross. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Your weight goes on it, then it comes back off of it as you're stepping right when the kick hits. | ||
| So it's like jello. | ||
| Your quad's jello. | ||
| It just cut right to the femur bone every time. | ||
| And he kicked me like three times in a row in the exact same spot. | ||
| And I winced and went... | ||
| And he goes, Petsch, you know, with the Brazilian accent. | ||
| He's like, Petsch, I don't kick you in that leg anymore. | ||
| And I go, no, dude, I need to learn the hard way. | ||
| I need to learn the hard way. | ||
| So he's like, all right, cross. | ||
| Low kick. | ||
| Fall down ball. | ||
| He had Jens Pulver jumping like this, like a monkey. | ||
| He was so afraid of his low kicks. | ||
| And then you're fucked for days afterwards. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, you don't want to get kicked there. | ||
| You're walking funky when you try to train. | ||
| You're all jacked up. | ||
|
unidentified
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Mm-hmm. | |
| Yeah, it's an amazing skill. | ||
| The Thais really figured out how to do it right. | ||
| I mean, Kyokushin obviously had it. | ||
| A lot of martial arts had it. | ||
| But, man, the Thais figured it out. | ||
| It's kind of crazy when you think about this one small island. | ||
| This one small country. | ||
| And they, because of gambling and because they had all those fights, they just figured out a totally different method of training, a totally different method of fighting. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Pretty impressive. | ||
| When you think about the history of Thai fighting between the Laotians and the Thais during times of peace, the soldiers would fight each other and all that sort of stuff. | ||
| Just a bunch of scary people, and they're the nicest people in the world. | ||
| The nicest people. | ||
| You couldn't meet any nicer people who would completely wreck you. | ||
| It's so weird because when you meet Thais, especially even Thai fighters, they're so friendly. | ||
| They're so friendly and humble and warm, and then when you watch them fight, you're like, Jesus! | ||
| It's kind of crazy. | ||
| So my Muay Thai coach, a guy named Long Longley, his last name was not Longley, it was a lot longer than that, but he was a stadium champ. | ||
| He lived in Peoria, Illinois, in the ghetto. | ||
| And he had a little shitty basement with like banana bags and all that sort of stuff. | ||
| And I found him out of sheer luck. | ||
| Somebody said, there's this guy in Peoria that was a stadium champion. | ||
| He's the guy. | ||
| So I went to see him, and he taught me how to clinch, do clinch work. | ||
| And he was 140 pounds maybe. | ||
| And he put you in the clinch. | ||
| All the years of wrestling and everything else didn't matter. | ||
| I mean, I felt like a dog in a lake with a raccoon hanging on my head. | ||
| That's one thing that people don't realize that aren't real fans of the sport is that Muay Thai is a lot about grappling. | ||
| It's a lot about that clinch work. | ||
| And that's one of the things that I really like Lion Fight above a lot of the other kickboxing organizations is they let those guys work in the clinch and elbows in the clinch. | ||
| Again, like we were saying about headbutts, these elements are very effective. | ||
|
unidentified
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So why remove them? | |
| It's what's tolerable to the politicians and the public and all the other garbage, right? | ||
| Bare knuckle, clinch, everything should be there, I think. | ||
| I think everything should be there. | ||
| I think the real issue is the cage. | ||
| The real issue is the cage, in my opinion, because the cage presents this artificial barrier. | ||
| I mean, I've been beating a dead horse here because I've been saying they should fight on basketball courts. | ||
| I'm like, if you can have a basketball game in a basketball court, why can't you have a fight on a basketball court? | ||
| It would certainly serve a striker, right? | ||
| Fuck yeah! | ||
| The wrestlers are able to get you against the cage, yank your legs out from underneath you, beat the shit out of you. | ||
| It is an advantage for the wrestlers. | ||
| But it's also an advantage for the wrestlers in that a guy's not going to be able to put his back up against the cage and get back up again. | ||
| True. | ||
| You know, if a good grappler has you down in the center, you're going to have to earn that stand-up. | ||
| You're going to have to actually either reverse the position or figure out a real escape. | ||
| Because so many guys are so good at wall-walking. | ||
| And they're also good at defending a submission by keeping one side pressed up against a cage. | ||
| Can't take their back. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I think that it's an artificial environment, like the cage. | ||
| And it's also, it's hard to see, like if you're in the audience. | ||
| I mean, it's actually better sometimes to be home watching cage fights. | ||
| I like the boxing rings for fights. | ||
| I mean, they go through the ropes now and then, whatever, right? | ||
| But it's a lot better for people at home watching and for the live crowd. | ||
| There's just not that cage barrier, that focus problem for the eyes and cameras. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| I think Bellator actually nailed it with their kickboxing ring because they put this big circle around it so you can't fall through. | ||
| Remember when Bernard Hopkins fought Joe Smith in his last fight? | ||
| He went through the ropes and landed on his fucking head. | ||
| This is a terrible way for a legend to go out. | ||
| The ropes were loose and he gets clipped while he was already going down. | ||
| He just goes right through the hole. | ||
| That's ridiculous that he could fall four feet and land on his fucking head like that. | ||
| That was the fight where Bernard was talking tons of shit before the fight, right? | ||
| Was he talking a lot of shit? | ||
| Yeah, he was talking a lot of shit. | ||
| Well, it was his last fight, you know, and probably realized... | ||
| Bernard Hopkins was getting his ass kicked by Antoine Echols, who trained at Pena's boxing gym in Iowa, where I trained, right? | ||
| Antoine was scary, dude. | ||
| He was scary. | ||
| He got sidetracked and derailed by horrible management. | ||
| They really screwed his career up, but he was the scariest boxer that I have ever seen and been in the gym with. | ||
| I mean, that guy would... | ||
| He's looking like he's punching at half speed and just crushing people. | ||
| With 16-ounce sparring gloves on. | ||
|
unidentified
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Wow. | |
| Just destroying people. | ||
| Yeah, I remember Antoine. | ||
| Antoine went down to... | ||
| It was South America, Ecuador, or wherever the hell it was. | ||
| That was when Norris was fighting Simon Brown. | ||
| Terry? | ||
| Terry Norris. | ||
| Terry Norris or... | ||
| The smaller one. | ||
| Michael Nunn was defending his title there. | ||
| And Antoine Echols got on the card because Michael Nunn was the pound-for-pound best fighter in the world. | ||
| He was out of Davenport, Iowa also, where I live. | ||
| They were doing a bunch of sparring. | ||
| They were training down there, getting used to the altitude, and Antoine walked into the gym, and he started sparring with three-time world champions and beating the shit out of all of them. | ||
| And they go, dude, you need to back off. | ||
| You need to stop this. | ||
| And it's a month out from the fight. | ||
| He doesn't care. | ||
| He's knocking the shit out of all these three-time world champs. | ||
| And basically, what Antoine said to all of them was, If you guys can't handle it, stay out of my ring. | ||
| Like, I don't care who you are or what your titles are, I'm going to wreck you. | ||
| So, toughen up. | ||
| I own the ring now, right? | ||
| That's how good he was. | ||
| What do you think about that kind of sparring, though? | ||
| I think it's great. | ||
| Do you think it's great to just go to war? | ||
| I just, you know, there has to be a limit, obviously. | ||
| Because the ties don't do it like that at all. | ||
| Well, here's the thing, though. | ||
| That's because of the low kicks, the knees, the elbows, all that sort of stuff. | ||
| It's also because they fight a lot. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah, they're fighting every week. | ||
| So that's your sparring. | ||
| But the thing is, you can't, and I say it a million times, I've said it for years, you can't become a race car driver by going down the highway at 55. You just don't have the reaction time. | ||
| You're not used to that high speed, that high endurance, everything else that goes on. | ||
| You have to get used to that and everything slows down eventually, right? | ||
| With experience and time, things slow down for you. | ||
| I can remember when I first started fighting kickboxing and everything was like a tunnel this big. | ||
| And all I could hear was me breathing. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Didn't hear anything else. | ||
| But then later on in my career, You know, you'd see punches come at you and you'd move this slow. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But it was actually... | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| So it just happens with time. | ||
| And you've experienced that with everything you've done, right? | ||
| Yeah, you just become more accustomed to it and then you become more relaxed. | ||
| But I wonder, like, is there a way to keep the speed but at least take something off the shots? | ||
| Well, that's the thing is where you put the shin pads on, the headgear, the 16-ounce gloves, you go at high speed, you go hard, you hit takedowns hard, all that sort of stuff. | ||
| A couple times a week. | ||
| But you can't take that kind of punishment constantly. | ||
| But mornings would be conditioning, strength stuff, technique, all that sort of stuff. | ||
| Then nighttime was more high speed, hard takedowns. | ||
| And as a coach, I had to look and go, alright, tonight's takedowns? | ||
| But if I saw people getting tired, fatigued, and sloppy, I knew an injury was about to happen. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Okay, let's go to the ground now. | ||
| Get in the guard. | ||
| Let's go from there. | ||
| Let's do some ground and pound drills, this and that. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So I think it's important to go high speed until you start seeing mistakes happen because of sloppiness, fatigue. | ||
| That's when people get hurt. | ||
| Then you've got to pull the reins back on everybody. | ||
| When you were running your gym, the Miletic Fighting Systems was the gym. | ||
| I mean, you guys were the kings. | ||
| You've got to think about who came out of your gym. | ||
| Matt Hughes, Robbie Lawler, I mean, Jens Pulver, Tim Sylvia, and then a host of other killers that people just forgot. | ||
| You know, we had a lot of people Obviously that would come and train with us, Rich Franklin, Dave Manet, who was an 85-pound champ for a while. | ||
| He was one of the best martial artists I've ever seen. | ||
| People don't even know about him. | ||
| The guy was incredible. | ||
| Trained with Greg Nelson for a good portion of his career, obviously. | ||
| I think we had 92 people made it to televised careers, and I think 30 or so made it to the UFC. That's pretty impressive. | ||
| So it's, you know, when I added it all up, somebody asked me to do that, and I added it all up, and I went through all the televised cards that I remembered. | ||
| It was, I think, 92 people, and I thought, you know, it's pretty impressive. | ||
| We had a lot of killers. | ||
| We had a lot of killers. | ||
| Yeah, and you also were the first big super gym. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like, you were the first big American gym that was producing, like, world champions. | ||
| Besides, like, the Lion's Den, I guess. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| The Lion's Den, too. | ||
| Yeah, I guess they were the first. | ||
| We had a good rivalry with them, though. | ||
| Yeah, that's true. | ||
| Well, the Lion's Den didn't produce as many world champions. | ||
| We really basically had Frank and Ken and who else came out of the line. | ||
| Trey Telligman. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Guy Metzger. | ||
| Guy Metzger was a world champion. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, Metzger also had that kickboxing background, too. | ||
| He had more of an American-style kickboxing background, too. | ||
| Yeah, and the wrestling. | ||
| He had wrestled before and stuff, so that helped him. | ||
| He had some great fights in Pride, too. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Yeah, Metzger was super legit. | ||
| He's a smart guy, too. | ||
| Metzger's an interesting fellow. | ||
| When you hear him talk about fighting and talk about his career, he's very open and honest about it. | ||
| And he's into the holistic health now. | ||
| He's pretty wise to that. | ||
| And I tell you what, if you talk to him long enough, he'll have you sold on some products. | ||
| He will. | ||
| Smart dude. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But you know, he's a guy that, he suffered through that Vioxx shit. | ||
| You know that Vioxx stuff that people were taking for arthritis? | ||
| Getting heart attacks and all that. | ||
| He had a stroke. | ||
| He had a stroke through Vioxx. | ||
| They pulled that shit off the market. | ||
| And when people were taking it, a lot of people were getting strokes. | ||
| And I think someone commented on that. | ||
| Vioxx and Celebrex. | ||
| Celebrex, another one? | ||
| Celebrex was bad too, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, there's a lot of weird drugs that people were taking for arthritis. | ||
| I guess it was like a blood thinner, right? | ||
| Is that what the idea was? | ||
| Yeah, and it was a lot of professional athletes who were suffering from inflammation and pain and getting beat up and stuff were all taking it, and it was, yeah, it was wrecking people. | ||
| Yeah, but anyway, back to your gym. | ||
| Like, when you guys were doing it, you guys were kind of creating the roadmap. | ||
| I mean, there wasn't really a lot. | ||
| I mean, the lines then had their crazy, the initiation that they would do, where they would run you through this insane gauntlet that was similar to what I guess Ken had to go through in Japan. | ||
| Ken had put that together. | ||
| They had their own little methods as well. | ||
| I shouldn't say little methods. | ||
| They had their own... | ||
| They were very big and very crazy. | ||
| But you guys, like, there wasn't... | ||
| Like, now you have ATT, you have TriStar, you have all these different gyms you could sort of model after. | ||
| You know, you've got Rufus's camp. | ||
| There's all these different places we could say, oh, all these elite fighters come out of here. | ||
| How are they doing it? | ||
| Oh, I've trained with these guys. | ||
| I know their methods. | ||
| Here's what they do for strength and conditioning. | ||
| Here's how they take... | ||
| Here's how they do their recovery work. | ||
| You guys were... | ||
| Basically at the front of the line. | ||
| There was nobody back there for you to look at. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, I was lucky enough to be, like I said, I wasn't a world-class wrestler. | ||
| I was a good wrestler. | ||
| I beat some very good wrestlers, but I was not by any means even remotely world-class, right? | ||
| I had some boxing experience. | ||
| I'd been around some great boxers, so I at least had that to start with. | ||
| But I recognized, you know, I want to be good enough to spar 12 rounds with a world-class boxer. | ||
| And hang. | ||
| You know, hang. | ||
| And go an hour straight with a world-class BJJ black belt. | ||
| And go back and forth with them. | ||
| And battle, tooth and nail. | ||
| To be able to hang in the Iowa wrestling room during the summer with the Hawk Club guys who are absolute beasts and friggin' throw you around and bounce you off walls. | ||
| And spar with good kickboxers. | ||
| And be able to do all that stuff and then understand how to put it all together. | ||
| And I think that that, you know, at least enabled me to explain grappling and wrestling to a striker from a striker standpoint and vice versa. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| So that was understanding angles from a striking standpoint, from a wrestling standpoint, and being able to explain it and understand people. | ||
| And then you've got to read people, you know, their personality. | ||
| You've got to coach everybody different. | ||
| You can't coach everybody the same way. | ||
| Some people want to get screamed at, and some people want to pat on the back and a hug. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| It's just you got to read people differently. | ||
| Personalities are a big deal. | ||
| When you were putting together, when you were training fighters, you first started off, when you first started doing it, you were still fighting. | ||
| And you still had a couple of fights along the way. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But when you were putting together, like, training, say if you were training a fighter for a big fight in the UFC, How did you put together their camp? | ||
| Did you leave it up to them in some ways? | ||
| Did you just have them attend regular group training sessions? | ||
| Did you give them individualized attention? | ||
| I would give them individual attention, definitely. | ||
| I had to kind of figure out everybody's body was different, how to find that balance between aerobic and anaerobic endurance. | ||
| You know, some people needed more of one or the other. | ||
| And then they'd come to team training. | ||
| And everybody, you know, you got 40 guys in the room who are all a bunch of killers. | ||
| And you just get new guys. | ||
| And everybody was pretty good about knowing this guy's getting ready for a fight. | ||
| Don't fucking hurt him. | ||
| You know, that's really important. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know, so we were pretty good about, as a group, looking out for somebody but pushing them to their limit constantly. | ||
| Or double teaming them constantly, you know. | ||
| Every minute a new guy jumping in on them type stuff and doing that sort of, you know. | ||
| So it was, and obviously, you know, helping a guy like Hughes who wasn't the best striker. | ||
| We got to do what we can to get him better at it. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Or a striker who can't stop a takedown. | ||
| We've got to figure out how to help this guy. | ||
| I've got to put him with a bunch of wrestlers and just have him constantly sprawling, sprawling, sprawling. | ||
| And guys would alternate and shoot and shoot and shoot and make him work it, work it, work it. | ||
| It was just different for each guy, I guess. | ||
| Now, did you have anything specific that you would do in between camps? | ||
| Like, say if you had a guy like Hughes, and you say, like, he wins his fight, now he has some time off. | ||
| Would you start working with him on specific things? | ||
| Like, would you have a program? | ||
| You'd say, like, Matt, we really got to tighten up, you know, your stand-up defense? | ||
| Yeah, if they were healthy and stuff like that, absolutely. | ||
| You know, there was just guys that... | ||
| It's so hard for people to be well-rounded. | ||
| It really is. | ||
| Especially when you're that good at one thing. | ||
| You know, Hughes was such a powerful wrestler. | ||
| And so good on the ground that it was a challenge. | ||
| So we had to definitely work extra with that. | ||
| Well, Matt was the first guy who was a really great wrestler who also was outstanding at submissions. | ||
| He really changed the game because when he hit that far side arm bar on George St. Pierre, that was a very technical move. | ||
| And to have a powerhouse wrestler hit that in a world title fight... | ||
| To me, I think Matt doesn't get enough credit. | ||
| Maybe it's just because time passes and you start looking at George St. Pierre, you start looking at all these other guys. | ||
| Tyron Woodley is the champ now. | ||
| And you sort of just forget that Matt was the blueprint. | ||
| This is what happens when a really strong, powerful wrestler learns and absorbs the ground, right? | ||
| That's a scary dude. | ||
| That's where you go... | ||
| You're not a BJJ guy. | ||
| You're a catch-as-catch-can wrestler. | ||
| You understand how to destroy somebody, control position, beat them up, and hit power submissions, finesse submissions, all that different stuff. | ||
| And when Hughes was in his prime, I remember when he first... | ||
| I refereed his second fight. | ||
| And he destroyed some poor Brazilian. | ||
| And the guy was a really good, legit black belt. | ||
| And Hughes beat him half to death. | ||
| And it was in Chicago. | ||
| I refereed it. | ||
| And I walked up to him and I go, dude, you ever come to Iowa, I know I'll make you a world champ. | ||
| There's just no doubt in my mind. | ||
| That was the only guy I ever said that to. | ||
| The only guy I ever recruited, to be honest with you, for the most part. | ||
| So Hughes shows up. | ||
| He drives three and a half hours from Hillsboro, Illinois. | ||
| I've got bronchitis at the time, which made it even worse. | ||
| And he goes, here I am. | ||
| Let's get this workout in, right? | ||
| So we wrestled and grappled, you know, takedowns to submissions, everything else. | ||
| And about 30 minutes into it, I can't breathe. | ||
| And this guy is a monster. | ||
| I've had him in 50 submissions. | ||
| And he's shaking out of all of them, literally. | ||
| Just like, bounced me off walls. | ||
| He's so fucking strong, I couldn't believe it. | ||
| And I was a strong guy. | ||
| I mean, at the time, I was probably benching 365, could dunk a basketball and run a 4-4-40. | ||
| So I was not a slouch athlete when I was in my prime. | ||
| And I couldn't believe this guy. | ||
| I had never experienced somebody my size being this strong in my life. | ||
| That farmer strength shit is real. | ||
| It is real. | ||
| And I grew up having to wrestle farmers, trust me. | ||
| The Royce Algers and all those psychopaths, right? | ||
| But I said to him, I go, hold on, man. | ||
| I go, I can't breathe. | ||
| I got bronchitis. | ||
| And he goes, fuck you. | ||
| He goes, I don't care what you got. | ||
| I drove three and a half hours. | ||
| We're working out. | ||
| And he grabbed me. | ||
| And fucking train doubled me onto my back all the way across the room, slams me. | ||
| I was like, all right, we're here. | ||
| Let's get it on. | ||
| So I got him in one guillotine. | ||
| I lifted him off his feet. | ||
| I ran him backwards and ran him as hard as I could, ass first into the wall. | ||
| I mean, I was trying to kill him. | ||
| I was so pissed because he was just a freak. | ||
| And he went limp. | ||
| He went unconscious for a second. | ||
| So I let go of it. | ||
| He slid down the wall, hit his knees, woke back up, and train doubled me again onto my back. | ||
| It was back at him. | ||
| Right? | ||
| And so we get done with this hour-something workout of just go, go, go. | ||
| And I look at him and I go, dude, what are you on? | ||
| And he goes, what do you mean? | ||
| I go, what are you taking? | ||
| Are you on some fucking steroids or what? | ||
| And he goes, and he got pissed. | ||
| And he goes, don't ever accuse me of that again. | ||
| He goes, fuck you. | ||
| He goes, don't ever say that again. | ||
| Never. | ||
| That was like the one thing where if somebody said anything like that, he was so offended. | ||
| Because he was just a farm boy. | ||
| His brother was frigging just as strong, if not stronger. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Yeah, his brother was a gorilla too, and his brother fought in the UFC once, right? | ||
| Yeah, and walking back to the locker room after that fight, his brother Mark goes, that wasn't really all I expected. | ||
| It was fun, but I don't enjoy that that much. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And he killed the guy. | ||
| He beat the shit out of it. | ||
| Yeah, that's interesting. | ||
| Even identical twins, they don't necessarily think identically. | ||
| Matt was a real freak and a real important figure in the history of MMA. You've got to think, 1993 it all starts, and then from then on it's been sort of this learning experience, trying to figure out what works and what doesn't work. | ||
| In my opinion, Matt is one of the big pieces to that puzzle. | ||
| Because we had had some powerful wrestlers, of course, you had Coleman and so many other guys, and they were basically all about ground and pound. | ||
| I mean, the only time Coleman got a submission to the UFC was when he fucking headlocked Dan Severin. | ||
| Or canopered somebody or whatever. | ||
| Did you never canopered somebody? | ||
| Take the leg in the head, take the leg in the head and go... | ||
| Or no, yeah, headlock and then squeeze them like that. | ||
| Yeah, it was like a judo scarf hold. | ||
| It's a compressor, a compressor, yeah. | ||
| I mean, look, nobody wants to get stuck in that with that fucking gorilla back then. | ||
| No, he was ungodly strong when I trained him for the Pride Grand Prix, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He called me up and he goes, I want to come there and train with you. | ||
| And he had lost two or three fights in a row at that point, so he was kind of cannon fodder put into that Pride Grand Prix. | ||
| He was just a name at that point. | ||
| And I go, alright, you come here. | ||
| You've got to do everything I tell you to do. | ||
| We're going to train hard. | ||
| I'm going to torture you. | ||
| And he's like, that's fine. | ||
| And he wanted to come there, I think because I had so many scary dudes at the time. | ||
| Like Steve Rusk, who wasn't even a fighter, could kill every fighter I've ever trained. | ||
| I mean, he'd just walk in the room. | ||
| Take off his fatigues from hunting, beat the shit out of everybody in the room, and then go back out hunting or fishing. | ||
| That was Steve Rusk. | ||
| And he didn't fight? | ||
| He fought four times and just goes, you know what, I'm not into it, but I'll come into the gym and help everybody get ready. | ||
| He helped me coach my IFL team. | ||
| But he was the guy that, after I fought Lindland, when I got kicked out of my weight division, when the UFC goes, you've got to move up weight division, I went... | ||
| Why'd they tell you you have to move up? | ||
| They go, you've trained yourself out of a spot. | ||
| You have Jason Black, Rob Lawler, and Matt Hughes all at 170. They're all ranked, I think, at the time, top 10 in the world. | ||
| And I had done my comeback fight after losing the title to Carlos, knocked out Shoney Carter, so in my contract it said that I had an automatic rematch clause, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And they go, no, not happening. | ||
| You're moving up to 185. And I go, I'm not big enough for 185, right? | ||
| But I realized at that point, business-wise, how easily I could be discarded, right? | ||
| And it kind of ruined me, to be honest with you, mentally. | ||
| I was like, I don't even want to do this. | ||
| But neither here nor there, Lindland, after we fought, he came to my gym to train for one of his fights. | ||
| And Steve Rusk is there that day. | ||
| And Rusk was a great Greco guy. | ||
| And now it's the Olympic silver medalist Greco guy going against a guy that's an unknown. | ||
| And Rusk... | ||
| Ragdolls him. | ||
| Winner stays on the mat. | ||
| And Lindland gets taken down. | ||
| And Lindland won't leave the mat. | ||
| You can't believe he's getting taken down by a no-name, right? | ||
| So Russ does it to him again. | ||
| Does it to him again. | ||
| Does it to him again. | ||
| And finally the whole team goes, Lindland, get off the mat, dude. | ||
| Get the fuck off the mat. | ||
| Lindland comes over and sits next to me and goes, who the fuck is that guy? | ||
| I go, that's Steve Rusk. | ||
| He's Steve. | ||
| He destroys everybody. | ||
| Just a lot of those guys in gyms out there that don't want to fight, but they're super high level. | ||
| Donaher was telling me about some guys that he has in his gym that wreck some of his best top guys that go in competitions. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Now, Rusk was a guy who... | ||
| He grabbed, it was Dave Strasser who fought in the UFC for a while. | ||
| Dave was a tough guy. | ||
| Dave was very tough. | ||
| But Russ grabbed the, he was in Dave's guard, and he grabbed his foot and his shinbone and went like this and was going to just break his foot off. | ||
| That's how strong this guy was. | ||
| And Strasser taps out and gets up and looking at him like, there's no way I'm ever grappling with you again. | ||
| He goes, stay away from me. | ||
| I don't want any part of you ever again. | ||
| And Nick Ackerman, who was a national champion wrestler, he won the Hodge Trophy the same year Cale Sanderson won it. | ||
| They were co-recipients of it. | ||
| Nick Ackerman was the guy who was a national champ who had his legs were gone from his knees down. | ||
| And Ackerman was almost as tall as me on his knees. | ||
| That was another guy in our gym that was so strong that he could just crush your ribs by squeezing you. | ||
| Just massive. | ||
| Massive power. | ||
| It makes you wonder, what would it be like to grapple Corellin when he was in his prime? | ||
| Because even the great grapplers would grapple him and go, what in the fuck is that all about? | ||
| Yeah, he was gut-wrenching people and snapping spines. | ||
| Yeah, literally snapping spines. | ||
| Like, when guys would flatten out, when you'd see a 290-pound man panic, like, lay down flat on his stomach and try to flatten out and do everything they can to keep from getting launched, and he would pick them up like a half-empty sack of potatoes and fucking slam them. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Scary human being. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| You ever see his parents? | ||
| No. | ||
| Tiny little people. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They called them the experiment. | ||
| Were they gymnasts? | ||
| One was a gymnast or something, and the other one was a little power lifter or something? | ||
| I'm not sure. | ||
| I'm not sure, but they were like 5'5". | ||
| Right. | ||
| And you see him. | ||
| He was just this fucking giant panther. | ||
| He really was like a panther. | ||
| He didn't even move like a big guy. | ||
| He moved like a small guy, and he was a giant. | ||
| I think that there was probably some sort of beat in the system with that. | ||
| What beat in the system? | ||
| That was a part of the system. | ||
| That fucking guy was on everything. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| I mean, you look at his face. | ||
| His forehead came forward and everything just looked like... | ||
| Massive amounts of growth and all kinds of stuff. | ||
| They probably had him on growth when he was a little baby. | ||
| I mean, they probably just shot him up with growth from the time he was little. | ||
| That's scary, isn't it? | ||
| It's fucking terrifying. | ||
| But look, what they're doing right now in China. | ||
| There he is. | ||
| There's Corellin in his prime. | ||
| Picking up a massive man. | ||
| Massive man. | ||
| This guy's battling, too. | ||
| Look at this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Roar! | |
| Boom! | ||
| I mean, that guy, that giant dude on the bottom, probably never had anybody ragdom like that before. | ||
| And it was also like the way he would work out. | ||
| When you see some of the shit that he would do, like some of his kettlebell workouts and shield casts that he would do with club bells and steel plates and shit, he was all about movement. | ||
| Yeah, circular motions. | ||
| So your gym, having all that true functional... | ||
| To see Indian clubs in your gym, I went, alright, he gets it. | ||
| He really gets it. | ||
| Indian clubs, I collect all the old ones. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| Old antique wood ones. | ||
| The huge wood ones, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| All that sort of stuff. | ||
| So a guy named Ed Thomas taught me about true functional fitness long before any of this CrossFit crap and all this stuff came out, right? | ||
| So Ed Thomas, Dr. Ed Thomas, and I didn't know he was a doctor. | ||
| He just showed up at my gym one day. | ||
| He walks in, a little unassuming dude, and he goes, hey, he goes, Patty, I'm Ed Thomas. | ||
| He goes, do you have time for me to teach you some stuff? | ||
| And I went, sure. | ||
| You know, whatever. | ||
| It was the middle of the day. | ||
| Nothing was going on. | ||
| So he brings in Indian clubs, kettlebells, old medicine balls, old leather stuff. | ||
| And I, at the time, never seen any of this stuff. | ||
| I didn't know anything about it. | ||
| Well, he was raised in the Turner Halls in Davenport, Iowa. | ||
| And that's where he learned functional fitness. | ||
| And the Turner Halls were brought by the Germans here because the The Germans used Turner Halls back in Germany to train a generation to become warriors to protect the nation. | ||
| And that's where that mentality came from. | ||
| So everything they did was cargo nets, pommel horses, Indian clubs, heavy kettlebells, all kinds of crazy just functional fitness stuff. | ||
| So they would climb cargo nets? | ||
| Yeah, serpentine inside of them. | ||
| They would swing the cargo nets and the kids would serpentine in and out of them as it was swinging. | ||
| All kinds of crazy stuff, right? | ||
| Definitely the rings. | ||
| They were doing a lot of the ring stuff and power, you know, being able to do iron crosses, all that sort of stuff. | ||
| That's the way they raised their kids. | ||
| So he was, at the time, I think and still is, one of the first and foremost guys on functional fitness. | ||
| He was the guy that taught me how to train upside down with gravity boots. | ||
| Doing all kinds of crazy stuff with medicine balls and kettle bells and bands and everything else you could do standing up, you could do upside down. | ||
| And he rebuilt me at the time. | ||
| But he came in, taught me for an hour. | ||
| He said, I'll leave this equipment here with you. | ||
| You can teach your guys what I taught you and I'll come back, you know, another time. | ||
| And I was like, yeah, and we were talking for a second. | ||
| I got on the phone, and I turned around and he was gone. | ||
| Well, he was a... | ||
| Three times in Vietnam, he was a tunnel rat. | ||
| He signed up for extra tours. | ||
| He would go in and kill the Viet Cong, sleep amongst the bodies, and then go back out and find another tunnel and kill people again. | ||
| That's what he did for three years. | ||
| Just a hardcore guy. | ||
| But the guy that owned Taekwondo Times at the time, his kid was training underneath me. | ||
| And he goes, I heard you met a friend of mine. | ||
| I go, who's that? | ||
| He goes, Dr. Ed Thomas. | ||
| And I go, well, he didn't say he was a doctor, but I could tell he was one of the most intelligent people I've ever met in my life. | ||
| He goes, yeah, he's a scholar. | ||
| I mean, this guy's a warrior genius, right? | ||
| And he's still up in Des Moines, Iowa. | ||
| Haven't talked to him for a few years, but that guy taught me what real fitness was about. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| What year was this? | ||
| Dear God. | ||
| I've been hit in the head so much. | ||
| You're great for a guy who's been hit in the head as many as you. | ||
| I never had a concussion. | ||
| I will say that. | ||
| Well, you must have. | ||
| Never had a concussion. | ||
| Really? | ||
| No. | ||
| Well, what is a concussion? | ||
| A concussion is like, will they check your pupils? | ||
| They're not dilated correctly? | ||
| None of it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
None of it. | |
| No concussions at all? | ||
| No. | ||
| All that hard sparring? | ||
| Nope. | ||
| Never. | ||
| I find that hard to believe. | ||
| I never got hit with a shot that I didn't see coming. | ||
| And I think that's the difference. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Ever? | |
| Nope. | ||
| Nope. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Besides one time in a huge fight where a dude hit me on the side of the head with a brick and I saw it last second and I at least rolled with it. | ||
| And that didn't give you a concussion? | ||
| It was a hip-hop night at the nightclub I was bouncing at. | ||
| Oh, sounds like fun. | ||
| And the Illinois gangbangers and the Iowa gangbangers started going at it. | ||
| And I tried breaking it up and they all attacked me. | ||
| So that's when I, everybody was wearing, it was wintertime, so I was choking people. | ||
| A guy got me in a headlock and I was grabbing people by their coat lapels and I put my head in between his head and his head and I'd choke him unconscious. | ||
| I'd find a new coat and I was working my way backwards out the front door and finally snuck out of the headlock, put him in a rear choke, went backwards out the door. | ||
| He went limp. | ||
| I dropped him and then as I turned to get out into the street because there was cops everywhere at that point. | ||
| There's dogs. | ||
| It's a snowstorm. | ||
| Last second I see this coming at the side of my head and I duck and it bounces off my head and this dude goes yeah like I was gonna go down and I turned and I looked at him and rifled him with the right hand and knocked him out and then the next thing you know there's just dogs diving into the crowd. | ||
| It was a good one. | ||
| That was a fun one. | ||
| Dogs, that's not good. | ||
| No. | ||
| Dogs work. | ||
| They work. | ||
| They work real well. | ||
| It's not good because they don't know who the fuck they're biting. | ||
| They might bite you. | ||
| They might bite the bad guys. | ||
| I mean, who the fuck? | ||
| Dogs don't know who the bouncer is. | ||
| They don't give a shit. | ||
| They clear a crowd out real quick, though. | ||
| Fuck, yeah, they do. | ||
| Malmois? | ||
| Is that what they're using? | ||
| Back then it was shepherds. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| It was all German shepherds. | ||
| Yeah, Malinois hadn't even entered the scene at that time. | ||
| I have a buddy who trains dogs who doesn't like Malinois. | ||
| He says they're too bloodthirsty. | ||
| Too aggressive? | ||
| Yeah, he goes, they don't listen as well. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| He goes, I can trust a shepherd. | ||
| He goes, bite, hold, and release. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He's like, if I sick a Malinois on him, he goes, fuck no. | ||
| He goes, also, I don't trust him as a pet. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know, he wants a dog that is a real trained bite dog, but also... | ||
| Good with the family. | ||
| Yeah, can hang out with your kids. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Well, it's like, I've owned Mastiffs before, right? | ||
| I have a Mastiff. | ||
| You know, I had Brindle Mastiffs, and I always loved to have males. | ||
| And I had a stalker for three years who was a psychopath, right? | ||
| So that was when I got my first Mastiff, King. | ||
| He was 210 pounds, but he was a Brindle, scary, looked like a Bengal tiger, right? | ||
| Those dogs are so powerful at that size when they're truly in shape where you can't stop them. | ||
| And there were people that were using Mastiffs for police work. | ||
| And they stopped using them because a 210 pound Mastiff on a human being, they can kill them really fast. | ||
| This is not a bite dog. | ||
| This is a dog that can just have a screw go loose. | ||
| And rip somebody's throat out in a heartbeat. | ||
| They're just too big and powerful. | ||
| Yeah, if the suspect hurts them, if something hurts them and they think, oh, this is a fight. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I'm just going to rip your fucking head clean off your body. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And that mastiff tested me a couple times for alpha position in the house. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| It was one time a plastic bag in the wind was rolling through the woods on my property. | ||
| And he ran and he grabbed it. | ||
| And I told him, you know, King, come here, front. | ||
| And he came up to me and I put my hand on the plastic bag and he goes... | ||
| It's like, alright, here it is. | ||
| This is test time. | ||
| So I ripped the bag and it came out of his mouth, right? | ||
| And he really got pissed off at me. | ||
| I was testing him. | ||
| So at that point, I'm like, well, I can't back down to him now. | ||
| This is it. | ||
| So I put my fist against his teeth that he was showing. | ||
| And I was going, do it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Do it. | |
| Jesus Christ. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Do it. | |
| And he's like this with his teeth going, I'm going, do it. | ||
| Do it. | ||
| And finally he turned and backed off and then I pet him and he was wagging his tail and I was like, alright. | ||
| That was kind of scary. | ||
| Ryan Parsons got in a fist fight with his Mastiff. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah, he had a Neapolitan Mastiff in college, and they got in a fist fight. | ||
| He goes, it was a real fight. | ||
| He goes, I had a fight with my Mastiff. | ||
| I'm like, maybe, maybe you did. | ||
| More likely you punched your Mastiff. | ||
| Because if it was a real fight, I wouldn't be talking to you right now. | ||
| You'd be chunks missing out. | ||
| Yeah, you'd be fucking dead. | ||
| A Neapolitan? | ||
| That's a giant fucking dog. | ||
| They're big, yeah. | ||
| I have a Regency Mastiff. | ||
| They're half Mastiff, half Pitbull. | ||
| He's about $1.40. | ||
| That's a beautiful dog, I bet. | ||
| He's a great dog. | ||
| He's old now. | ||
| He's like 12. He's had some years under him. | ||
| Did you socialize him really good? | ||
| Oh, he's a great dog. | ||
| He's the best. | ||
| Gets along with everybody. | ||
| Gets along with every dog, every person. | ||
| That's good. | ||
| I got him because his dad was on Fear Factor. | ||
| His dad was an attack dog on Fear Factor. | ||
| He put people in a bite suit and they'd try to run away. | ||
| His dad... | ||
| His dad was also the dog that they modeled. | ||
| They used him for CGI for the Hulk. | ||
| Remember one of the Hulk movies with Nick Nolte and Eric Bana? | ||
| Nick Nolte was the bad guy. | ||
| He was the Hulk's dad. | ||
| And he'd injected Hulk serum into his fucking dogs. | ||
| And so the dogs would get to a certain point and they would get angry and they'd fucking roar and they would Hulk out. | ||
| Would they turn green? | ||
| No, they were just big. | ||
| They didn't turn green. | ||
| Yeah, it seems like they should, right? | ||
| Maybe they did? | ||
| No, I don't think they did. | ||
| I think they just... | ||
| Look at him, he's looking for it. | ||
| Jamie found it, yeah. | ||
| Oh, dear God, look at that. | ||
| That's scary. | ||
| That was like real bad CGI, too, boy, when you watch that movie. | ||
| It's funny, because that wasn't that long ago. | ||
| I think that was only like 15 years ago? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What year was that, if you had to guess? | |
| 15 years ago? | ||
| They've come a long ways with CGI. So his dad, my dog, Johnny Cash, his dad, Curly, was in Fear Factor. | ||
| And that was literally what he was built like. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| But smaller than that, obviously. | ||
| That's when he hulks out. | ||
| So they took him and sort of exaggerated him. | ||
| Huh. | ||
| Basically looked like that. | ||
| You could find him. | ||
| Just Google Regency Mastiff Curly. | ||
| He was a famous stud. | ||
| It's a fucking ridiculous dog. | ||
| But the thing about the dog was when we had him on the set, he would just fucking chill. | ||
| He was a black dog, so none of those are him. | ||
| There's probably a lot of dogs named Curly. | ||
| It's alright. | ||
| It doesn't matter. | ||
| But the dog was just so friendly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then when it was time to go, when they put the bite suit on people, it was hilarious. | ||
| Because we were using Malmois for a while, and you get like a big football player type dude who's about 240. Couldn't bring him down. | ||
| They can't bring him down because they could hold on to it. | ||
| That dog's only 60, 70 pounds. | ||
| You throw him around. | ||
| Curly would grab ahold of you, and it would be like they got hit by a truck. | ||
| They would just go flying and crash to the ground. | ||
| And one of the ones that we did was actually my friend Ed's girlfriend was on the show. | ||
| And I knew her before, and I was like, oh, Jesus, I felt bad. | ||
| Because she weighed like a buck ten, and they're putting her in this fucking bite suit. | ||
| And then Curly hits her like literally like she got hit by a tree. | ||
| Like someone took a tree, one of those swinging trees, and just boom! | ||
| Did she get hurt? | ||
| She was okay. | ||
| She's a tough kid. | ||
| How many episodes of Fear Factor did you do where you were like, this is horrible to do? | ||
| Two. | ||
| One when they had to ride bulls, one when they had to drink cum. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There's the dog. | |
| See the dog gets these people, just boom, get down, bitch. | ||
| Like, you're not going nowhere. | ||
| Oh, nice. | ||
| But the problem was with these dogs is they bite so hard that if they get a hold of a bone through the suit, they can break a bone. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Anyway, great dogs. | ||
| You had people drink cum? | ||
| Yeah, they drank cum. | ||
| What was it, like bowl cum? | ||
| It never aired. | ||
| It was donkey cum. | ||
| What happened was it got out on TMZ, and then they played Horseshoes, and they had to drink donkey cum and donkey urine. | ||
| That's hardcore. | ||
| It was hardcore. | ||
| There was two episodes where I said, don't do it. | ||
| One of them was riding bulls, and the other one was the donkey cum. | ||
| People got hurt, right? | ||
| The riding bulls, we got lucky. | ||
| No one got hurt. | ||
| We got lucky. | ||
| Just roll the dice. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because this was the funny... | ||
| There's fucking stuntmen. | ||
| I'm sure you worked around stuntmen before. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Fucking animals. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They don't give a shit. | ||
| Broken bones don't mean anything to them. | ||
| Those guys are animals. | ||
| They're just some of the toughest fucking people for sure in all of show business. | ||
| And their attitude was like, eh, they'll be fine. | ||
| They'll be fine. | ||
| And so my friend Perry, who's a stunt guy, was like, don't worry about it, boo, they're stunt dogs. | ||
| Or they're stunt bulls. | ||
| I go, they're stunt bulls? | ||
| Does that fucking bull know he's a stunt bull? | ||
| Did you have a conversation with that bull? | ||
| As you understand, that's a bull! | ||
| That's a bull! | ||
| They were so big. | ||
| Because I was standing next to the person while there's the pen and they sit on top of the bull and you're right there. | ||
| So I'm standing right next to them on the platform. | ||
| And I'm like, don't do it. | ||
| There's no way you're going to hang on. | ||
| No, my first year in college wrestling at Sioux Empire up by the South Dakota border... | ||
| Middle of nowhere. | ||
| We got recruited by a guy that was an All-American at Iowa State, Johnny Johnson, who was the coach up there, right? | ||
| And myself and three other buddies, Mike Wolfe from American Pickers, wrestled with me that year up there, right? | ||
| And he's actually a tough guy. | ||
| A lot of people don't realize it. | ||
| Mike Wolfe's actually a really tough dude. | ||
| But to keep ourselves busy, we would go, all the wrestlers would go, and there was fields everywhere next to the college. | ||
| It was a small junior college in the middle of nowhere, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right? | |
| So there was this huge Angus bull in the field right by the college. | ||
| So we would go over there, and the first guy that could grab the bull's head would win the money, would put money in the pot, right? | ||
| So we're running around. | ||
| The farmer pulls up one time in his pickup truck, and he goes, what are you idiots doing? | ||
| We put money in a pot, and the first guy that can grab the bull's head wins, and that's the game we're playing, right? | ||
| And he goes, you guys stay off my property, man. | ||
| Knock this shit off. | ||
| And then we got to where the sheep would always escape another farm and come on to the lawn of the college. | ||
| And Mike Wolfe and I got in trouble one day. | ||
| We'd take these rams and we'd smack them in the forehead, palm them in the forehead to get them to jump up on their back legs and try and smash us. | ||
| And then we'd sidestep them and headlock them and throw them and stuff. | ||
| That's what we were doing for fun back then. | ||
| So, Mike Wolf, one of the ladies that worked in the cafeteria saw us doing it. | ||
| And she goes, you boys leave those animals alone. | ||
| Quit, stop doing that, right? | ||
| That's cruel. | ||
| And it wasn't hurting them. | ||
| We were just having the fun. | ||
| We were bored college kids, right? | ||
| And I said, yeah, but you should see what squirrel does to them. | ||
| And Squirrel was one of the basketball players from East St. Louis who played on the basketball team up there. | ||
| And we had guys from Miami, South Side of Chicago, East St. Louis. | ||
| You know, just tough ghetto kids who got thrown into this farm atmosphere. | ||
| It was totally foreign for them. | ||
| But we made the joke, and this was a very religious cafeteria lady. | ||
| And I said, you should see what Squirrel's doing to him. | ||
| And the next day we came in for lunch, she was scolding Squirrel about bestiality. | ||
| And he's looking at me going, you son of a bitch. | ||
| So, yeah, that was good times. | ||
| Good times, man. | ||
| Yeah, that's a ridiculous thing to do with your time. | ||
| We had nothing else to do. | ||
| I understand. | ||
| You should find something else to do. | ||
| You needed some guidance. | ||
| Well, that's the Hayward in Iowa, which is right on the South Dakota border. | ||
| Tiny little town. | ||
| The college was there. | ||
| And one night I went drinking. | ||
| And I got in a fight with a bike gang, and they were beating me with pool cues. | ||
| That's, you know, whatever, it happened. | ||
| But I had a guy, a biker, was at the urinal, and I walked into the bathroom and he goes, quit dragging your feet, ape man. | ||
| And I go, you know, people that mind their business don't get the shit kicked out of them, right? | ||
| And he goes, bring it. | ||
| So I crushed the toilet with him, right? | ||
| I beat his head on the toilet and powdered the toilet. | ||
| It's like Roadhouse. | ||
| But then the other bikers heard the commotion, and I came out of there, and they all started beating me with pool cues, and I was fighting my way out of there. | ||
| And I made my way out. | ||
| I got back to the school, and my scalps all split open everywhere, and my arms are beat to hell from blocking pool cues. | ||
| And I lost my gold necklace, so I had to go down there the next day to go back and get my friggin' necklace. | ||
| It was a big rope-chain necklace that my girlfriend at the time had bought for me. | ||
| And I walked in, and I go, I lost my chain here last night. | ||
| And the owner goes, yeah. | ||
| He goes, you put five people in the hospital last night. | ||
| He goes, don't ever come back here again, man. | ||
| Don't come back. | ||
| So that's just the way it was. | ||
| That was Iowa. | ||
| That was Iowa. | ||
| That's what we did for fun. | ||
| Well, Iowa has such a reputation for tough guys when it comes to wrestling. | ||
| I mean, the Iowa wrestlers. | ||
| You know there's Thai kickboxers. | ||
| Iowa wrestlers. | ||
| It was always this thing. | ||
| It was almost synonymous with Iowa. | ||
| When Gable was coaching, the Iowa wrestling team beat up the football team and the basketball team on numerous occasions. | ||
| He'd have to go get those guys out of jail. | ||
| They'd just beat up the whole team. | ||
| Well, I can only imagine. | ||
| If someone actually thought they were a tough guy, and they talked to those tough guys, it's like, well, we've got to show you something. | ||
| Because you're going through this life with this delusional perspective. | ||
| Lou and Ed Bannock and guys like that. | ||
| Just King Mueller, back in those days, some very, very scary wrestlers. | ||
| I don't think people truly understand the difference between them and regular human beings. | ||
| I don't think they've ever experienced it. | ||
| I think you have to lock up with them to experience it. | ||
| The explosiveness, the tendon strength, just the power, the sheer violence that those guys can bring in a short burst of energy. | ||
| Until you get used to it, and you see it all the time in fighting, right? | ||
| A guy who's never trained with guys at that level of athleticism suddenly find themselves getting mauled by a superior human being going, holy sh- I never had any idea a human like this even existed. | ||
| Well, you see it when Yoel fights. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When Yoel Romero gets a hold of guys. | ||
| When Yoel, you're talking about a guy who medaled in every single international competition he ever entered. | ||
| And beat Kale Sanderson when Yoel was 18 years old, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's a scary dude. | ||
| And beat him twice. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He's a fucking monster. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And when he gets a hold of guys, you see the way he ragdolls people. | ||
| You're like, holy shit! | ||
| But that's what it is. | ||
| It's just this next level athleticism, next level strength, next level technique, and then also just being forged in the competition of that Cuban wrestling program. | ||
| Did you see the podcast I had with him last week? | ||
| No. | ||
| I had him on last week with Joey Diaz, and Joey Diaz translated for him, and they went back and forth. | ||
| Like, you always try to speak as much as you could in English, and then Joey would sort of translate the stuff that he couldn't. | ||
| But he just detailed his time in the system, in the Cuban wrestling system, and how intense it was. | ||
| I mean, think about it. | ||
| Communist country. | ||
| That's your ticket to at least leading a halfway decent life. | ||
| Well, just to eat. | ||
| He was talking about the difference between the way the elite guys would eat and where they would sleep. | ||
| They would get three meals a day. | ||
| The other guys would get two. | ||
|
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Wow. | |
| And the food would be better. | ||
| Everything would be better. | ||
| That would motivate you to win. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they're all together. | ||
| That's the thing. | ||
| They're all trained together. | ||
| So the guys who want your spot are right next to you. | ||
| Everybody knows, like, oh, you've got a hurt wrist. | ||
| They know. | ||
| Everybody knows everything. | ||
| And he's like, that competition just makes you a machine. | ||
| And the guy that's eating two meals a day wants three meals a day. | ||
| Fuck, yeah, he does. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| Yeah, and then on top of that, you have these fucking incredible genetics. | ||
| I mean, Cubans have unfucking believable genetics. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| It's just an amazing... | ||
| But that's really one of the more fascinating things about competition, is to see all these variables. | ||
| And it's to see, like, when you think you've reached this high level, oh, look at this. | ||
| There's another level past that. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| There's another level past that. | ||
| And yet you see guys who... | ||
| In no way, shape, or form should be a champion or upper echelon, athletically or genetically, but they figured out how to do it. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Just super smart. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, but you see a guy, you know, I would say, you know, if you were to see, well, let me think, Smiling Sam Alvey on the street. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| And you got in an argument with him for whatever reason, you think, I'm going to kick this guy's ass. | ||
| He's wearing a sweater with a tie underneath it. | ||
| Looks like a car salesman. | ||
| The guy's tougher than shit. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| You just would never guess. | ||
| You'd never guess. | ||
| Yeah, there's a lot of those guys, right? | ||
| Evan Dunham, you'd never know. | ||
| You look at Evan Dunham, looks like a nice gentleman. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Who beat the fuck out of you. | ||
| And you just go home and go, I'm never fighting again. | ||
| This is just stupid. | ||
| Yeah, well, you'd learn that in jiu-jitsu, too. | ||
| I remember when I first started training, I'd get choked out by guys that just looked like nothing. | ||
| Computer geeks. | ||
| They weighed 150 pounds. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, especially now. | ||
| Like, I think now, jiu-jitsu has really been adopted by a lot of, like, Eddie calls them, like, nerd assassins. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because they really are, like, these guys who are just really smart or into the technique and into the fact that... | ||
| It's jiu-jitsu by a computer programmer. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That level of thinking through things. | ||
| And it's cool. | ||
| I've rolled with a lot of guys like that and go, this... | ||
| This is stupid how good this guy is. | ||
| Especially now with the leg lock game. | ||
| With the leg lock game, it seems like strength is less of a factor. | ||
| You know, when guys are isolating legs, and you're constantly defending against that, and whatever strength that you do have in your back, in your core, in your upper body, you're not really getting a chance to utilize it. | ||
| You're just trying to defend if you don't understand the positions, and they get deep, they get a couple steps in on you, and you're like, phew, you know, it doesn't take a strong guy. | ||
| And I always loved leg locks. | ||
| I loved leg locks. | ||
| And a guy like Dave Manet, Matt Hume, those guys were all sick leg lockers, right? | ||
| Yeah, sure. | ||
| Eric Paulson, good leg locker. | ||
| A lot of those guys that were the catch-as-catch-can and the combo. | ||
| Who did Matt Hume wrestle in that? | ||
| Do you remember that one time where Peretti put together a thing with Dan Gable was the commentator with Peretti? | ||
| He went against an Olympic wrestler, I'm pretty sure. | ||
| Was it Kenny Johnson? | ||
| Kenny Monday? | ||
| Kenny Monday. | ||
| I think it was Kenny Monday. | ||
| It was either Kevin... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because Kevin Jackson lost to... | ||
| Kevin Jackson lost to Frank Shamrock. | ||
| No. | ||
| That was UFC. No, that was Dan Severin. | ||
| No, Dan Henderson lost to Frank. | ||
| Frank got him in a footlock, right? | ||
|
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Right, right. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I think it was Kenny Monday. | ||
| That's when Kurt Angle was calling the action, and I was sitting next to Kurt Angle, and Kurt was asking me questions. | ||
| What's he doing? | ||
| So he knew what to say on air and stuff. | ||
| Right, yeah. | ||
| That was an interesting thing, that submission tournament. | ||
| I thought it was great. | ||
| If they were to ever do it again, I think. | ||
| But they kind of do that now anyway. | ||
| They do do that now, but for whatever reason, it doesn't get that much attention. | ||
| Although Eddie Bravo's figured out a way to give it a little bit more attention. | ||
| Have you seen combat jiu-jitsu? | ||
| A little bit, yeah. | ||
| They're doing it basically like pancration-style slaps, like open hand strikes. | ||
|
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Right. | |
| And, you know, it opens up. | ||
| It's also like what we were talking about before with there's some stuff that you can get away with in MMA because there's no headbutts. | ||
| There's some stuff that you can get away with in other styles. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like in kickboxing even because there's no clinching and there's no elbows. | ||
| Right. | ||
| There's all these different little things. | ||
| Well, with jujitsu, there's a lot of positions where a guy could just smack you in the face. | ||
| You'd have to let go of the lock. | ||
|
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Right. | |
| And now guys are doing that with combat jujitsu, and it's a good intermediary step between... | ||
| I think it's a good way to find out if you're meant for MMA, too. | ||
| That, too. | ||
|
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Right? | |
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I find Eddie... | ||
| I've always found Eddie really interesting. | ||
| He's a trip. | ||
| He's definitely a trip. | ||
| And you can tell he's a thanker, you know what I mean? | ||
| He's a very analytical guy, a very analytical grappler with great flexibility. | ||
| I just always would watch him go, this guy's fucking slick, man. | ||
| Yeah, he knows a lot of shit, especially when it comes to jiu-jitsu. | ||
| And I'm talking, you know, I'm going to see him tomorrow morning. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| What are you doing? | ||
| You know, Sam Tripoli? | ||
| Sure, I know Sam very well. | ||
| Yeah, so I'm doing that show, and Eddie's going to be there. | ||
| I want him to explain Flat Earth to me. | ||
| He's not going to be able to. | ||
| I want to know, man. | ||
| This is what it is. | ||
| Eddie thinks that everybody's lying. | ||
| That everybody, and NASA and the government, and because of that, I believe he has a blind spot. | ||
| And that he, if they're telling you the world's round, he's saying, well, it can't be round. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And it's not a good way to think. | ||
| No. | ||
| But it's the same reason why he's so good at jiu-jitsu. | ||
| It's because he sees an idea and he just pursues it and chases after it. | ||
| And he turns it around. | ||
| But in jiu-jitsu, jiu-jitsu's like, it's all... | ||
| It's all quantified. | ||
| It's all right there. | ||
| Two bodies. | ||
| It's all very simple. | ||
| There's no mystery. | ||
| It's just figuring out a puzzle. | ||
| But I can see how people get that way because I was a guy who... | ||
| Not to go off on a tangent, but I think it's fun to think about in 1971 when I was a young boy standing in line in Albia, Iowa with my grandma and my mom when the farm collapse was happening, when Nixon took us off the gold standard, right? | ||
| Shit fell apart for the farmers right away, and my grandma was one of the first people in line to get her money out of the Farmers National Bank in Albia, Iowa. | ||
| And she got it out. | ||
| And I remember, still to this day, standing there and asking my mom and my grandma, what the hell is going on? | ||
| Why is this happening? | ||
| What's going on? | ||
| You could see the panic. | ||
| The farmers went for blocks, right, from all around that part of Iowa. | ||
| And it just, I think that's what started the wheels turning in my head about being a contrarian thinker. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Well, there's real conspiracies. | ||
| And there's real things where people misunderstand the actual facts. | ||
| Flatter's not one of them. | ||
| No. | ||
| It's just not. | ||
| It's just not. | ||
| I mean, there's so many stuff. | ||
| I mean, look, snipers use the curvature of the earth to calculate ballistics. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's a real thing. | ||
|
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Right. | |
| I mean, there's plenty of shit that's not real. | ||
| But I want Eddie to tell me. | ||
| I want him to explain it to me. | ||
| It's going to be frustrating. | ||
| I don't know if he believes it anymore. | ||
| He might have let it go by now. | ||
| I'm hoping he did. | ||
| I don't talk to him about it anymore. | ||
| We had a few conversations about it on the podcast. | ||
| Initially, he thought it was stupid. | ||
| He thought the flat earth concept was stupid. | ||
| And then all of a sudden, he started being open-minded to it. | ||
| I'm like, what the fuck are you saying? | ||
| What in the fuck are you saying? | ||
| This is crazy. | ||
| And he's like, and he kept going to fake the moon landing. | ||
| It's not even the same people. | ||
|
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Right. | |
| Like, if they did, that was a long fucking time ago. | ||
| You're talking about people right now. | ||
| There's satellites all over the world. | ||
| There's a lot of people that think satellites are fake. | ||
| I think Eddie thinks dinosaurs aren't real. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| Wow. | ||
| You know what's interesting? | ||
| The first time I fought in the UFC, I went into the production trailer at my first UFC. I wanted to see what was going on in there. | ||
| That always intrigued me, how TV was put together. | ||
| And I was lucky enough to bring my daughter to one of our broadcasts with AXS TV, and Lonnie, he's the expert to find the satellites. | ||
| He's got an app on his phone. | ||
| Have you ever seen guys do that? | ||
| No. | ||
| He has an app on his phone where he can punch it in and do this across the sky and spot all the satellites, right? | ||
| Oh, interesting. | ||
| So he knows how to dial into them, call up, know the coordinates to turn the dish towards, and lock onto a percentage of the satellite receptor to get it beamed back down, all that sort of stuff. | ||
| So he was teaching my daughter how all that stuff was done, and it was the first time I'd ever seen it. | ||
| I was like, this is pretty amazing stuff. | ||
| But yeah, you can see the curvature of the Earth and how the satellites are set across the horizon, right? | ||
| But you could track satellites. | ||
| The thing is, these guys don't even believe in satellites. | ||
| Here's what the problem is. | ||
| If someone has no interruption, and they put together a video, and that video, they're articulate, and they sound calm, they use big words, and they show you images that they're claiming show that the Earth is flat, that there's an ice wall outside Antarctica, and that the government won't let you go there, they start saying all these things. | ||
| If there's no one there, you know, like, Neil deGrasse Tyson type guy there, he goes, hey, hey, hey, no. | ||
| That's not true. | ||
| And here's why. | ||
| And here's how we know. | ||
| And here's what we found out. | ||
| And here's a test you can do yourself. | ||
| And here's how you can figure it out. | ||
| And here's what you can find online. | ||
| And for the longest time they were trying to say that there was no full pictures of the Earth. | ||
| That the Earth, like every photo you see of the Earth is a composite. | ||
| No. | ||
| There's a fucking Japanese satellite called the Himawari 8. It takes full... | ||
| Full images of the Earth, high resolution, every 10 minutes. | ||
| You can go Google it. | ||
| You can watch them. | ||
| NASA has one, too. | ||
| There's giant photos of the fucking Earth from 22,000 miles out or whatever the hell it is. | ||
| It's real. | ||
| It's fucking real. | ||
| There's a lot of shit to think about that's fascinating. | ||
| That's not one of them. | ||
| That's been solved. | ||
| I'm into the geopolitical and domestic policy shit. | ||
| That's where I... I was drawn more about what's really going on, you know, behind the news, all that sort of stuff. | ||
| This is bullshit. | ||
| And I was lucky to train a lot of law enforcement and then military, high-level military, and get connected to intel guys who go, Pat, we need to talk. | ||
| Like, no, you're completely off. | ||
| Let me explain things to you, right? | ||
| As far as, like, what were you completely off about? | ||
| Well, I can tell you what I was right about when I called up my buddy and I go, hey, four years ago, whatever it was, four and a half years ago, I go, We're funding ISIS, aren't we? | ||
| He goes, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| NATO's the go-between guy. | ||
| What do you think? | ||
| Al-Nusra? | ||
| ISIS? Friggin' Al-Shabaab? | ||
| What do you fucking think? | ||
|
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So why do they fund ISIS? To take out Syria. | |
| It was obvious, right? | ||
| The Mujahideen in Afghanistan was to friggin' take out the Russians. | ||
| But the way I looked at it was, when that was going on, funding the Mujahideen was to bankrupt Russia, right? | ||
|
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Right. | |
| We wanted them to go bankrupt. | ||
| And it worked. | ||
| Reagan was a genius in that part. | ||
| The diabolical part, of course, is Russia and America both fighting over the resources of Afghanistan. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But ISIS was just, that's some weird shit. | ||
| When you have a 50,000-man army just appear out of nowhere with professional cameramen and editors and producers and directors making the high-level films that they were putting out, where it's every three seconds they're cutting different angles, professionally put together films of people being burned, where it's every three seconds they're cutting different angles, professionally put together films of people being This is too weird. | ||
| You know what people stop talking about? | ||
| Do you remember when they blamed Benghazi on some bullshit movie? | ||
| Yeah, some video that someone made. | ||
| Was it like the Tears of Muslims or something like that? | ||
| I forget that. | ||
| Nobody even knew it existed. | ||
| Nobody knew it existed. | ||
| And everybody knew it was bullshit. | ||
| And they were pushing that as a narrative. | ||
| Like, this is what was the motivation behind. | ||
| And everybody was like, what? | ||
| Have you had Paranto on your show? | ||
| No. | ||
| Who's that? | ||
| Paranto is a former SEAL. What's his name? | ||
| Paranto. | ||
| P-O-R-O-N-T-A. His last name is Paranto. | ||
| But he's a former SEAL. There were several SEALs, obviously, that ran to try and help the Ambassador and some of the other guys. | ||
| Paranto lived through it, but when he talks about it, they're moving massive amounts of weapons through Libya, into Syria, into other places in the Middle East, right? | ||
| It's just a fact that it's happening. | ||
| And that whole thing going down, I think, was a way for them to just cover it all up and remove and erase any people that knew about it. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| That's the way it spells out to me pretty obvious because it's documented. | ||
| It's all documented that weapons were being moved. | ||
| And if you look at arsenal weapons manufacturing in Bulgaria, so Diliana Gotenshiva, who I had on my podcast, The Conspiracy Farm, right? | ||
| She was the Bulgarian reporter that got fired. | ||
| I didn't know you had a podcast. | ||
| Yeah, it's called The Conspiracy Farm. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| I want to Google it. | ||
| We don't start the conspiracies, we just add the water. | ||
| I like that name. | ||
| Yeah, my co-host, Jeffrey Wilson. | ||
| He's a really bright guy. | ||
| It's a great name. | ||
| Yeah, so we have fun with it. | ||
|
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Do you have t-shirts? | |
| Can I wear a conspiracy phone t-shirt? | ||
| Dude, I was going to bring you one, and he couldn't ship me one soon. | ||
| I will. | ||
| That's all right. | ||
| I will. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I'll wear one. | ||
| So it's a barn with a satellite and a satellite dish down next to the barn. | ||
| Oh, that's hilarious. | ||
| So that's it, right? | ||
| And are you doing it out of Iowa? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Perfect. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, it is, right? | ||
| But... | ||
| Arsenal weapons manufacturer, and she exposed the ISIS fighters, took her to their weapons caches, and there was massive amounts of artillery rounds, depleted uranium stuff, small arms stuff, and it was all arsenal weapons, Bulgarian weapons, right? | ||
| And she got fired for exposing it. | ||
| Now at the same time, Silkway Airlines, who is an Azerbaijani airline, their manifests got exposed by Bulgarian Anonymous with manifests of all the white phosphorus weapons, the depleted uranium, artillery rounds, all these shipments, massive shipments going into Turkey, going into Libya, going into the Ukraine, right? | ||
| Where a bunch of shit was going down there. | ||
| And every one of those places, who showed up to broker the deals? | ||
| John McCain. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| John McCain, right? | ||
| And look, we can't prove it, but there's people telling me that potentially there's an offshore company that owns a big percentage of arsenal weapons manufacturing in Bulgaria, right? | ||
| So that's the kind of stuff I'm into. | ||
| Who's causing it? | ||
| Why are they causing it? | ||
| The truth, I'm just a truth seeker, right? | ||
|
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|
Right. | |
| Would you seem like that kind of guy? | ||
| For sure. | ||
| Don't you think that that stuff is exposed at a level that's never been possible before because of the internet? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| And that these people are probably used to operating in a certain way that they've been doing for decades, and now they're having to adjust. | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, and... | ||
| And people like you just doing these podcasts and talking about it, which opens the minds of other people and has them thinking about it. | ||
| Who are the people screaming the most? | ||
| I wasn't even a Trump supporter. | ||
| I'm a Rand Paul guy. | ||
| You've got to find a Rand Paul shirt on. | ||
| I'm a Ron Paul guy. | ||
| You've got to teach him takedown defense. | ||
| Off of a lawnmower, right? | ||
| He got blindsided in his defense, right? | ||
| Yeah, but... | ||
| What the fuck was that about? | ||
| His neighbor attacked him? | ||
| His neighbor's a lunatic, right? | ||
| Good times. | ||
| You know, but... | ||
| It's a risky thing to do. | ||
| Live right next to a guy and attack him? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like, you're fucking burning the bridge. | ||
| I don't know what kind of sentence that guy got, though. | ||
| I haven't kept up on that. | ||
| I don't think he's been sentenced yet. | ||
| During the presidential run, I was giving speeches for Rand Paul, a couple of them, to introduce him. | ||
| So I'd give a speech, then bring him out, and I got to know him a little bit better. | ||
| Was he in Iowa? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Amazing dude. | ||
| We had great conversations. | ||
| I'm a big fan of his dad. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| But the people that are yelling the most now about Trump and all the other stuff... | ||
| You wonder what they're guilty of, right? | ||
| The deep state is just, it is a way of doing business, right? | ||
| There's smash and grab. | ||
| There's pay to play. | ||
| Smash and grab is me as somebody who's very powerful in government, going after an industry, crushing it, ruining its stock, and then my buddies buy the company. | ||
| Right? | ||
| When the stock collapses and then bringing it back up. | ||
| Like the GI Bill for University of Memphis. | ||
| We go after it. | ||
| No longer will there be any GI Bill money put toward that. | ||
| The stock goes from $100 down to $3. | ||
| Obama's buddy goes in, buys it, then they go, ah, we're going to allow GI money to go back into it now. | ||
| Stock goes back up. | ||
| Right? | ||
| That's the kind of shit that's going on. | ||
| It's some bad stuff. | ||
| We just do our best to follow it, educate people, and we have a lot of people who say you're a nut. | ||
| You're wearing a tinfoil hat. | ||
| What were you just talking about, Jamie, about something that you'd seen about politicians being exempt from insider trading rules? | ||
| Someone on Twitter, I'll find a name later, but this guy. | ||
|
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|
He told me about this guy. | |
| His name's Peter Schweizer. | ||
| He's a Stanford professor. | ||
| Secret Empires. | ||
| That's the book. | ||
| He wrote Clinton Cash also. | ||
| Yeah, there's another book that he hit me up about, but this is the one that he just wrote. | ||
| Have you had him on your show? | ||
| No, I have not. | ||
| That's a guy to have on your show. | ||
| Okay, I'd love to have him on. | ||
| How the American political class hides corruption and enriches family and friends. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Without a doubt, that shit's real. | ||
| Without a doubt, that shit's going on. | ||
| I mean, look... | ||
| We were just talking about this recently, about how half of what it is to be president is to get yourself into a position where after you're out, you can make these crazy speeches for these bankers. | ||
| Why is that? | ||
| I mean, it's almost like a retirement policy. | ||
| Man, I tell you what, there was a time when a good friend of mine, who was an agent for me at the time, got me involved because of all the years in MMA and martial arts, I'd met people from all over the world who had eventually moved into positions of power. | ||
| In government or cities or this or that. | ||
| And so they said, we want you to help us get our foot in the door to sell waste-to-energy projects. | ||
| So it was basically a facility that burns anything garbage. | ||
| I mean, you can burn tires in the thing at low oxygen levels, so the emissions are very low, but it generates electricity. | ||
| And in Europe, it was everybody from the city, province, that country, and the European Union, everybody wanted a piece of the projects. | ||
| That's just the way they do business in Europe and South America and other places like that. | ||
| They have to have a different model for it here, for the corruption. | ||
| They just do things differently here, and that's just the way it is. | ||
| They've made adjustments, and either way, they're going to find their way around it. | ||
| Yeah, the idea that there's no corruption is ridiculous, right? | ||
| No one thinks that. | ||
| So it's how much corruption is there, and how many people are out there exposing it, and putting their neck out there to expose it. | ||
| That's a big part of the problem, because if you really know about it, that means you're probably entrenched in the system, too. | ||
| Yeah, and the cognitive dissonance of the citizenry. | ||
| Of knowing that Hillary Clinton and a few other people sold, you know, the document just came out. | ||
| It was 15 million kilograms. | ||
| 15 million kilograms of depleted uranium, yellow cake, right? | ||
| Sold to the Russians. | ||
| At what point in any part of a discussion on any planet is it okay to sell your enemy 15 million kilograms of friggin' uranium? | ||
| What was the justification behind it? | ||
| Have they agreed that this is a fact? | ||
| Oh, it's a fact. | ||
| It's a fact. | ||
|
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|
Have they agreed? | |
| I mean, is there any dispute that this is a fact? | ||
| No, there is no... | ||
| No, but they sit there and use the excuse, well, there was eight other people that had to sign off on this, right? | ||
| What does that mean? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Suddenly that company invests $145 million in the Clinton Foundation. | ||
| Yeah, that's a big problem. | ||
| That Clinton Foundation is fucking insane. | ||
| And all these people that were blind supporters of Hillary that didn't look at that. | ||
| How do you not find a giant problem with that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right. | |
| And that book by Schweitzer talks about it. | ||
| He goes in detail about that stuff. | ||
| Yeah, I'm sure. | ||
| How's that guy staying alive? | ||
| I'm surprised. | ||
| That's what I was just going to say. | ||
| He's not going after the Russians. | ||
| Dude, Clinton cash was bad enough. | ||
| This one's even worse. | ||
| I'm surprised he's not dead. | ||
| I wonder how many people are actually reading it. | ||
| I feel like they think that there's always going to be a certain amount of that stuff out there, and they just tolerate it, and they just, as long as it's not really fucking up their business, because it's not. | ||
| The politicians are still allowing it. | ||
| Law enforcement's still allowing it. | ||
| No one's really going after them. | ||
| It makes you wonder, like, if Hillary had actually gotten into the White House, And she faced the same scrutiny that Trump is facing right now over the Russian program. | ||
| Which we know none of this would be uncovered had she won. | ||
| Right. | ||
| We know that. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All of this stuff would have been swept under the rug. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Most likely. | ||
| All this stuff with McCabe and... | ||
| Strzok and Page and Comey and all these people of going out of their way to try and derail Trump to get these FISA court surveillance warrants to spy on a president-elect and then a sitting president? | ||
| Are you kidding me? | ||
| At what point are people not charged with treason for that? | ||
| They were doing this spying before he ever won the presidency. | ||
| Don't you think that if he was doing something wrong with the Russians, they would have friggin' made it mainstream news and busted him for it? | ||
| Yeah, there's for sure some dummies in his staff that made some inappropriate meetings and had some... | ||
| I mean, they definitely had some intentions. | ||
| But if they had something on him... | ||
| The way I look at it is this. | ||
| I mean, if you win the presidency, I'm gonna send whoever is underneath me, if I'm the president, We have to have meetings with diplomats from other countries to make the transition. | ||
| That's part of the deal, right? | ||
| It really is. | ||
| That goes on. | ||
| That's just the way it is. | ||
| Right, but that's not what they're talking about. | ||
| They're talking about before the presidency. | ||
| They're talking about having meetings with Russians long before. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Where they planned this whole thing out. | ||
| They got nothing. | ||
| They're all dirty. | ||
| They got nothing. | ||
| They got nothing. | ||
| If they had something, it would be out there. | ||
| It's that projection and diversion and everything else, because the Podestas were doing lobbying for the biggest friggin' Russian bank in the world. | ||
| Right. | ||
| In Washington, D.C. It never comes up. | ||
| It's almost like there's too many things to pay attention to. | ||
| It's like they did everything. | ||
| How do you keep up? | ||
| How do you corral it all, all the corruption? | ||
| From the stock market to natural resources to everything. | ||
| It's almost like there's too many things to pay attention to. | ||
| It's mind-boggling. | ||
| It's like a giant room full of spaghetti. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you're in the middle of it, just doing this. | ||
| It's fucking insane. | ||
| That's a good way to put it. | ||
| That is what it's like. | ||
| It does that to your brain when you try to comprehend all of it. | ||
| When we do shows and we talk about this stuff, it's mind-boggling. | ||
| How many episodes have you done? | ||
| We've only done like 50 so far. | ||
| But we've got listeners in 130 countries, so we're doing pretty good. | ||
| That's nice. | ||
| We're excited. | ||
| Well, you'll get more now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| For sure. | ||
| Well, because you're kicking ass. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Well, we're going to, I mean, promoting it here, right here. | ||
| Conspiracy farm. | ||
| Go. | ||
| Go download it. | ||
| Check it out. | ||
| So when you started this out, what was the intention? | ||
| Just something you're interested in? | ||
| You know, I did Jeffrey's podcast. | ||
| It's me speaking to you. | ||
| And at the very end of it, it was three conspiracy questions. | ||
| True or false. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And I said, can I elaborate on them, though? | ||
| Because it might be something that I've actually researched. | ||
| He goes, yeah, sure. | ||
| So we, at the end of it, He asked me, I forget what the questions were, but after we were done, I go, hey, I've always wanted to do this podcast, and I want to call it The Conspiracy Farm, and I want to talk about geopolitical domestic policy stuff, and he goes, I love it, man. | ||
| He's like, yeah, let's do it. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| So we've had great guests, you know, a couple Navy SEALs, former Spetsnaz terrorist hunter. | ||
| Well, if you're going to do Sam Tripoli's podcast, Tinfoil Hat... | ||
| Just understand that it's a different kind of conspiracy theory podcast. | ||
| It's like, is Bigfoot psychic? | ||
| Like those kind of questions. | ||
| And expect to get a contact high from the room. | ||
| I've always wanted to ask you about the George St. Pierre stuff with UFOs. | ||
| I think it's head trauma. | ||
| Yeah? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Or did he have sex with a hot green chick? | ||
| Maybe he did. | ||
| But if I had a guess, the way he was describing things is very similar to the way people describe things when they've experienced excessive head trauma. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah, because he misses time. | ||
| His memory's not good. | ||
| Like, he'll get home and then he'll have groceries that he bought and left in his trunk and not even realize it. | ||
| And then he'll go out to his trunk and they're rotten. | ||
| And he's like, I don't even remember going to the store. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| The alien. | ||
| I think he's got this idea that these glitches in his mind. | ||
| It's not a fucking coincidence that the guy got punched in the head. | ||
| I think they did a stat before the Bisping fight. | ||
| I think it was more than 800 times he got hit in the head in his UFC career. | ||
| Forget about all the gym training. | ||
| Sparring and everything else. | ||
| Forget about all the other stuff. | ||
| And forget about the fights outside the UFC that he had before he got into the UFC. When he was in TKO, remember? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So he's experienced a lot of head trauma. | ||
| One of the symptoms of head trauma is memory loss issues. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, yeah. | |
| I mean... | ||
| And Hendricks hit him hard. | ||
| A lot. | ||
| Yes, he did. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And he's only one guy that hit him hard. | ||
| I mean, a lot of guys hit him hard. | ||
| Matt Serra scrambled his fucking brain. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I mean, a lot of guys hit him hard. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And that's just outside of sparring. | ||
| I mean, that's outside of everything else that he's done. | ||
| Sparring with Rory McDonald and Wonderboy and all the other guys that he had to spar with. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think that's most likely what it is. | ||
| People who have experienced a lot of head trauma, that's one of the real problems with it. | ||
| What is the dude from the Chicago Bears, that famous guy? | ||
| No, the quarterback from the Bears. | ||
| Oh, McMahon? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| McMahon was on the cover of Sports Illustrated talking about it. | ||
| That he'll be in the middle of his living room holding his keys. | ||
| He had no idea how his keys got in his hand, doesn't know where he's going. | ||
| Like, where am I going? | ||
| Like, why am I standing there holding my keys? | ||
| You just forget stuff. | ||
| Scary. | ||
| Yeah, there's connections. | ||
| Well, that's why it's so impressive that you, with your long fight career, you kickboxed, you boxed, you had a lot of MMA fights. | ||
| I think I learned early on with kickboxing and boxing, I looked at the older guys and listened to them talk and went, I don't want to be that guy. | ||
| So I started paying attention to defense. | ||
| I started watching films on great boxers with great defense, footwork, head movement, all that sort of stuff, and just... | ||
| And it was the key. | ||
| I never got hit with anything I didn't see. | ||
| I think you have sturdy genes, too. | ||
| You got them Croatian genes. | ||
| It helps. | ||
| I'm sure it helps. | ||
| I'm the smallest Croatian on the planet. | ||
| When you run into Croatians, they're all huge, like... | ||
| Mirko Krokop type characters. | ||
| Stipe Miocic, who's a bear of a human being, right? | ||
| Super... | ||
| Have you ever seen the Olympic water polo team from Croatia? | ||
| No. | ||
| The scariest dudes on the planet. | ||
| They're all massive 6'8 guys that just would drown you. | ||
| What happened to you? | ||
| There was a time where someone claimed that you had neck surgery and you didn't. | ||
| Like a doctor said something about it. | ||
| I was training for a fight with Frank Trigg outside of the UFC. It was the first round warming up and I got hit with a left hook and my neck crunched. | ||
| And my left arm dropped and it wouldn't work anymore. | ||
| Man. | ||
| I went, fuck. | ||
| It just wouldn't lift at all? | ||
| It was dead. | ||
| Like you couldn't move your hand? | ||
| No, everything was dead. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| How long did that last? | ||
| Well, here, I'll tell you. | ||
| That was the end of the first round. | ||
| I got cracked with it, right? | ||
| And I go, all right, let's pick it up the second round. | ||
| And I hit him with like four or five right hands in a row because that's all I could do. | ||
| And I crushed his nose and he had to have surgery because I was so pissed off because he blasted me, right? | ||
| And I don't think it was necessarily malicious, but we were still warming up and he cranked a left hook on me. | ||
| It was bad. | ||
| So over time, everything started to atrophy on this side of the body. | ||
| Everything started falling apart and it was very painful. | ||
| And I went to a neurosurgeon who got an MRI. Neurosurgeon goes... | ||
| He goes, your disc exploded into your spinal cord and almost severed it against the other side of your spinal canal. | ||
| And he goes, to make things worse, you have so much stenosis, there's no fluid in there. | ||
| There's no spinal canal. | ||
| It's all scar tissue crushing your spinal cord everywhere, cervically, right? | ||
| So this was bound to happen. | ||
| Over all the years of abuse, people wrenching on your neck, punching you, everything else, it just eventually gave way. | ||
| So he said, you have to have surgery. | ||
| You're Christopher Reeves if you don't. | ||
| You fall off a ladder, you're done. | ||
| You have to have surgery. | ||
| And I said, no, I'm not going to do it. | ||
| Talked to another neurosurgeon. | ||
| He said the same thing. | ||
| Then I talked to my cousin at John Hopkins. | ||
| And he goes, you're truly a moron. | ||
| You have to have surgery. | ||
| And I said, fuck you, I'm not going to do it. | ||
| So three guys tell you, three medical experts. | ||
| So I rehabbed, and I got this to come back. | ||
| How'd you do it? | ||
| There was some neural work by a guy at Palmer College of Chiropractic, which is in Davenport, Juring is his name, Dr. Dave Juring. | ||
| He's the best athlete to ever come out of Iowa, but he's a genius when it comes to rebuilding the human body. | ||
| He was the strength and conditioning guy for US Olympic team for some of the sports, and then was also on the bobsled team. | ||
| Guy was a freak. | ||
| So what kind of stuff did he do? | ||
| Decompression stuff? | ||
| No, well that, but he put me in weird positions on a table on my side, and they would block certain, they would put pressure points to stop certain nerves from working, all this other stuff, and tell me to move certain parts of my body. | ||
| Almost like raw food? | ||
| Rerouting, like rerouting of the nervous system and got things going again. | ||
| And rebuilt me, and I got to where this was back to 100%. | ||
| It happened one other time where this side, and this arm's two inches smaller than this one. | ||
| Yeah, I could see it. | ||
| And my shoulder is gone here quite a bit. | ||
| There's some things I just can't do. | ||
| I mean, I can still do pull-ups and a bunch of other stuff. | ||
| There's just things I can't do. | ||
| I was wondering if my mind was playing tricks on me, but your right arm looks smaller. | ||
| Boss went through the same thing, right? | ||
| And this is in your neck right now? | ||
| My vertebrae have fused together on their own. | ||
| They wanted to fuse them with... | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| Yeah, chunks of bone. | ||
| They fused together on their own? | ||
| Yeah, so the surgery that they wanted to do to fuse my vertebraes together, my body did it on its own. | ||
| Right? | ||
| I've never even heard of such a thing. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| You know, long enough when the disc is destroyed and dissolves and then it just all grows together, so my vertebrae grew together on their own. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What the fuck? | |
| That's one of the craziest things I've ever heard. | ||
| Right, so I just have to be careful. | ||
| My neck is hurting just listening to you. | ||
| I just have to be careful. | ||
| Because I've been paralyzed twice from the neck down. | ||
| I got hit with an uppercut on the forehead. | ||
| It wasn't even a hard punch. | ||
| From Jesse Lennox. | ||
| I was sparring with Jesse. | ||
| Before my last fight with Thomas Denny. | ||
| And he hit me with an uppercut. | ||
| It wasn't even hard, but the whiplash shut everything down from here down, and I went ragdoll and dropped on my knees. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Jesus. | |
| And when I was going down, I went, oh, my neck. | ||
| And I knew that it was really bad. | ||
| And then another time I got cranked from underneath here, and everything shut down again. | ||
| Both times uppercuts? | ||
| No, somebody's head was underneath here trying to bear hug me. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| But the uppercut was right before the Thomas Denny fight a couple weeks before. | ||
| And I went, well shit, I can't get hit at all now. | ||
| So I went into that Thomas Denny fight and just said, you know, he's not a powerhouse punter by any means, but I can't get hit at all. | ||
| So I just danced around for the first five minutes and then knocked him out early in the second round. | ||
| And Got out of there without getting hit. | ||
| But it's amazing the sense of urgency you get when you know you could be paralyzed. | ||
| I wish I would have fought like that my whole career. | ||
| Then you really never get hit. | ||
| I'm just glad my neck gave out before my brain did. | ||
| So your neck now, how is it? | ||
| I have to be careful. | ||
| I still have to be careful. | ||
| Have you ever thought about getting one of those artificial discs? | ||
| You know, they do that. | ||
| At this point, they would have to saw my vertebraes apart and put them in. | ||
| I've never heard of them heeling up like that, where they seal together on their own. | ||
| It does happen. | ||
| It does happen. | ||
| Wow, that's crazy. | ||
| So will your right arm come back to a normal size? | ||
| It's been like this for years now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| I did tons of rehab. | ||
| How long ago did this happen? | ||
| Well, when I was training for the Frank Trigg fight, when it first happened, I didn't even remember. | ||
| Again, dates are just... | ||
| Think of how many fights you've called, right? | ||
| Do you remember certain years of any fight I could name? | ||
| I see you as kind of a guy with a photographic memory. | ||
| I have a memory for things that are interesting to me. | ||
| You're pretty sharp. | ||
| But if you ask my wife, she's like, this motherfucker doesn't remember. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Shit. | |
| Very selective memory. | ||
| But with fights, I have a particularly good memory. | ||
| Everything to me, because of fighting for all those years, coaching for all those years, and doing commentary for all those years, it's one big mess of just fights. | ||
| Like, I'll remember the Hughes-Trigg fights forever. | ||
| I'll remember Tim winning the title. | ||
| I'll remember that sort of stuff. | ||
| But everything else is honestly... | ||
| Like a Jason Black, who's in a war with a guy from American Top Team. | ||
| And he comes back and he sits on the stool. | ||
| Some of the funniest shit I've ever seen was in fights, right? | ||
| You've seen it. | ||
| And I think you might have even been calling the fight. | ||
| Jason Black sits down and it's been a war for two rounds of just insanity. | ||
| And Jason Black was a great wrestler, just tough as nails kind of guy. | ||
| And I go, Jason, dude, stop boxing with this guy. | ||
| Let's go out. | ||
| Let's take him down. | ||
| Let's get him on his back. | ||
| Let's keep him there. | ||
| Let's rough him up. | ||
| And let's win this round and we win the fight and we get out of here. | ||
| And he's doing this while I'm talking to him. | ||
| He's just looking around at the crowd. | ||
| Kind of like this. | ||
| And I go, Jason! | ||
| Jason! | ||
| Fucking look at me! | ||
| And he looks at me and he goes, yeah? | ||
| And I go, what did I just tell you to do? | ||
| And he goes, Go out and dance with him. | ||
| And the Fertitta brothers are right there, and Dana, they start laughing their asses off. | ||
| And I go, whatever. | ||
| Go out and do what you want to do. | ||
| So he went out. | ||
| It turned into a brawl. | ||
| He ended up losing the fight. | ||
| Jason is one of the guys, the first guys that I saw cut weight to the point where I was like, okay, he might die. | ||
| When he went to 55, he was a fucking anatomy lesson. | ||
| Remember? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I mean, sure you remember. | ||
| When he went to 55, that motherfucker had zero fat. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| It was crazy. | ||
| And he was really a strong guy. | ||
| I mean, if he got head position... | ||
| Underappreciated. | ||
| Underappreciated. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| One of the toughest guys I've ever been around. | ||
| I feel like he was a tweener. | ||
| Like, maybe a little too big for 55 and too small for 70. Yeah. | ||
| I think there's been a few guys like that. | ||
| That were like, you know, real world-class fighters, but the reality of those 70s is you're dealing with guys that are cutting from 205 and up, and the reality of the 55s is that, like, that's a fucking horrible strain for your body. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| No, I remember, you know, seeing guys cut weight and being in a lot of trouble physically, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But our thing was always make weight no matter what. | ||
| I mean, that's just the way it was. | ||
| I think I had one guy that didn't make weight for a fight in the IFL, and he got run out of the gym because of it, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| He just got run out of the gym because everybody was so pissed at him for not making weight. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I've seen some horrible weight cuts with people, but I had a weight cut where it was in New Jersey. | ||
| The weigh-ins were the day of the fight. | ||
| Which fight was this? | ||
| Shoney Carter at Continental Airlines Arena. | ||
| The weigh-ins were the day of the fight? | ||
| That morning, right? | ||
| Why? | ||
| Just the way it was. | ||
| And the way it broke down, the way it all went down was... | ||
| I had a new gym. | ||
| A gold's gym. | ||
| Building a brand new house. | ||
| Had a brand new baby. | ||
| And I had to win the fight to have enough money for the down payment on the house. | ||
| Oh Jesus. | ||
| They're already building it. | ||
| We already signed the paperwork. | ||
| Oh Christ. | ||
| So I'm cutting weight and I've been so busy that I wasn't paying enough attention to my weight and I was struggling. | ||
| So the whole night, I stayed awake the whole night and all I thought about I know I can beat this guy. | ||
| This guy's not going to beat me. | ||
| But if he headbutts me for whatever reason and I don't win the fight and I lose that money, I lose my house, oh my god, I start to panic, right? | ||
| And when you're cutting weight like that, everything's magnified a hundred times. | ||
| Just the fear and everything else. | ||
| And all I thought about was that, water, and scrambled eggs all night. | ||
| The whole night. | ||
| And by the time it was time to weigh in, I went and knocked on Matt Hughes and Jen's pulver's door, and I go, hey man, I'm in some serious trouble right now. | ||
| Because I sucked on ice cubes all night, and I gained like two pounds or whatever. | ||
| So I had to go cut again. | ||
| What? | ||
| How did you gain weight? | ||
| Just from sucking on ice cubes all night. | ||
| You sucked two pounds of ice cubes? | ||
| I guess, yeah. | ||
| Because I didn't even know where I was at. | ||
| I was losing my mind. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| So I did that all night. | ||
| So I made weight and then I went back to my hotel room and I started cramping. | ||
| Everything cramped. | ||
| I had to tie my wrestling shoes on as tight as I could possibly tie them so my feet wouldn't bend like this. | ||
| And then my calves started cramping. | ||
| Everything cramped to the point where I was curled up in the fetal position and I knew I had to fight that night. | ||
| Holy shit. | ||
| So I couldn't see right. | ||
| There was a bunch of stuff going wrong with my body. | ||
| So I called up Monty Cox in his room, and I go, you've got to get somebody to take me to the hospital to get IVs, or this shit's not happening. | ||
| He goes, alright, I'm sending Tom Sauer, right? | ||
| So you remember Tom Sauer? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So Tom Sauer comes to get me, and everybody who knows Tom knows he had really severe Tourette's. | ||
| Really severe Tourette's. | ||
| Like if he's around black people, the N-word's getting yelled constantly. | ||
| He's around women, he's yelling, hunt, hunt, whore, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch. | ||
| The whole time. | ||
| Really loud. | ||
| So anyway, he comes and gets me, takes me to the hospital. | ||
| We're walking up to the hospital in New Jersey. | ||
| The whole hospital is all glass windows. | ||
| Everybody that works in the hospital is black. | ||
| Oh no! | ||
| Now imagine the kind of situation I'm in mentally and physically and I stop and I put my hand on his chest and I go, Tom, you cannot go in here with me. | ||
| Oh my god, you're gonna yell the n-word a million times. | ||
| They're gonna kick us out. | ||
| I'm not gonna get my IVs. | ||
| I'm not gonna be able to fight. | ||
| I'm gonna lose my house. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I was like, ah! | |
| I was losing my mind. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And he goes, Pat, it's okay. | |
| Chirp, chirp, chirp, click, click. | ||
| Right? | ||
| And he goes, it's fine. | ||
| He goes, I'm a Dade County paramedic. | ||
| He goes, I deal with this constantly. | ||
| It's okay. | ||
| So we walk in, we go up to the nurse at the reception desk, and he goes, hey, he goes, my friend, Click, click, click, N-word, N-word, N-word. | ||
| Oh, no! | ||
| And she looks at him and goes, say what? | ||
| And he goes, I have Tourette's. | ||
| I have severe Tourette's. | ||
| Please don't. | ||
| He goes, my friend needs an IV badly. | ||
| And she looks at me and goes, oh, shit. | ||
| Like, I look that bad. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| My eyes were way back in my head. | ||
| I was in rough shape. | ||
| So they gave me three liters of saline. | ||
| Three liters? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Revived me enough. | ||
| Think of like a two-liter Pepsi. | ||
| That was three of those. | ||
| And then I had another one. | ||
| Three of those. | ||
| Wow! | ||
| Three one-liters. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That's a lot of water. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| And so they revived me enough. | ||
| I was still seeing double when it came fight time. | ||
| And so the first round, I just took Shoni down. | ||
| I threw him, took him down, stayed mounted on him the whole first round to get him to wear himself out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right. | |
| Just hitting him with punches, elbows, just stuff, just not going overboard. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| But I wanted him to be tired going into the second round. | ||
| How diminished are you in this state? | ||
| Bad. | ||
| Yeah, it was bad. | ||
| Like half your capacity. | ||
| Maybe, yeah. | ||
| So the second round, I just went, okay, now I've got to end it. | ||
| So I head kicked him and knocked him out. | ||
| I remember that. | ||
| And I just went, I made it out of that with the skin of my teeth. | ||
| So it just... | ||
| Weight cutting can be very extreme. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It really can. | ||
| But we always believed in you have to make weight. | ||
| That you sign your name. | ||
| And that's why I get so pissed off and disgusted when people don't make weight. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, it's a lack of discipline. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It is. | |
| For sure. | ||
| Unless it's not physically possible for you to make the weight. | ||
| Like if you're a heavyweight and you want to make lightweight, that's not physically possible. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So then don't sign it to that fight. | ||
| And it's a lack of commitment. | ||
| See, that's the thing that I'm disgusted most with is that people aren't committed to what they do. | ||
| Right? | ||
| You've obviously committed to what you do. | ||
| You're very good at the things that you do. | ||
| Right? | ||
| It is. | ||
| It's obvious. | ||
| You're obviously a talented guy but you work at your craft. | ||
| Right? | ||
| You know, there came a time where I had to leave college to go and take care of my ailing mother and had to work three jobs and realized sitting in a basement that I was raised in, every time it rained, it flooded. | ||
| My feet were in water. | ||
| I woke up one morning and I was doing, you know, had started out fighting and everything. | ||
| And I said, this is it. | ||
| I'm going to win a world title. | ||
| I'm going to win a UFC title. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| This is it. | ||
| And I loaded a 9mm pistol, and I put a round in the chamber, and I put it in my sock drawer, and I said, if I don't want a world title, that gun's going in my mouth, and I'm done. | ||
| This is it, right? | ||
| So every time I fought... | ||
| I thought about that gun in my sock drawer and not wanted to go home to it. | ||
| And that's commitment. | ||
| That's what was needed for me to succeed at that point in my life. | ||
| That's the way it was. | ||
| So when I see people not, when they're talented and they're not committed, I don't want anything to do with them. | ||
| I just don't. | ||
| I don't have time for people like that. | ||
| I'll take a guy who's committed and sucks and train him every day because I love his commitment. | ||
| Well, there's some guys that just make some real critical errors, but they're incredibly talented, like Nurmagomedov. | ||
| Like, you know, when he missed the fight with Tony Ferguson, and he literally, his body was shutting down. | ||
| They had to take him to the hospital. | ||
| All comes to preparation, though. | ||
| He should have prepared better. | ||
| Yeah, he should have gotten lighter beforehand. | ||
| He should have watched his diet. | ||
| Now that he has a nutritionist, he made Wade pretty easy for his last fight with Barboza, and now he's gonna be fighting for the title. | ||
| And the guy's a monster. | ||
| He's a fucking monster. | ||
| But, you know, Askren had a real good point. | ||
| What they do with 1FC, I think, is the way to do it. | ||
| You know, with 1FC, they test you. | ||
| They have a hydration test. | ||
| And they test you, and whatever weight the champions are, they just bumped everybody up a notch. | ||
| And they bumped him up to 185. And they're like, there's no cutting weight here. | ||
| And I think that's just an unfortunate part of martial arts. | ||
| Is this weight cutting shit? | ||
| Well, it's with wrestling, it's with boxing. | ||
| Think about, you know, they complain about the fighters cutting weight. | ||
| That's for, you know, three, four times a year. | ||
| Really? | ||
| It's not that hard. | ||
| Try cutting weight your entire life every wrestling season. | ||
| And when you wrestle during the winter, then spring, summer for freestyle and Greco. | ||
| That was probably the thing that made me so small compared to my brothers. | ||
| They were all 6'4", 6'5". | ||
| I cut weight from 6th grade all the way through high school and into college and then fighting. | ||
| During my growing years, though, I was starving. | ||
| That's just the way it was. | ||
| And so it stunted my growth, most likely. | ||
| I'm sure it did. | ||
| Yeah, I knew a lot of guys from wrestling that were like that. | ||
| Their brothers were big and they were small. | ||
| But I think that it's just unnecessary for MMA. I mean, you're dealing with professional athletes at the highest level of the game. | ||
| I think they should just cut it out. | ||
| I think they should implement the 1FC. It's just never going to happen, though. | ||
| Everybody's going to look for that edge, right? | ||
| If they do the 1FC rules, they test you three times. | ||
| They test your weight. | ||
| They get a base weight off of you. | ||
| They get hydration levels every time. | ||
| As long as everybody has to follow that same... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, of course. | ||
| Look, everybody has to follow the USADA rules. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I don't think... | ||
| I think the rules, like, in reference to guys using performance-enhancing drugs, it's just as critical to keep guys from fighting dehydrated or from being dehydrated. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Now, it's... | ||
| I mean, obviously, there's risks. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, fighting dehydrated. | ||
| You saw the... | ||
| Which boxing match was it? | ||
| Was it... | ||
| God, a little Italian dude got the hell beat out of him. | ||
| Was it... | ||
| Who fought Ward three times in wars? | ||
| Mickey Ward. | ||
| Arturo Gatti fought Camacho. | ||
| Joe Camacho? | ||
| What the fuck was his name? | ||
| A kid from Maine. | ||
| Louis DeMaine. | ||
| But he wrecked him. | ||
| He destroyed him because he was a lot bigger. | ||
| So there's risks, obviously. | ||
| Who was that? | ||
| Pull up Arturo Gotti's professional record. | ||
| I remember his name was Joe. | ||
| He was from Lewiston, Maine. | ||
| He's a talented guy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And Arturo Gotti looked like he was two weight classes bigger than him, and he fucked him up. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, go ahead. | ||
| If you gotta pee, go ahead. | ||
| He's writing it down. | ||
| What do you got here? | ||
| You just edited it? | ||
| Go way back. | ||
| No, we're live. | ||
| Joe Gamache. | ||
| I needed a bucket. | ||
| Joey Gamache. | ||
| That's who it was. | ||
| Joey Gamache. | ||
| I remember that. | ||
| That was horrific. | ||
| That was 2000. Man, time flies. | ||
| How crazy. | ||
| Pat Melchich. | ||
| Tough guy. | ||
| Can't hold his piss. | ||
| Now we know. | ||
| That's probably why I had a hard time cutting weight. | ||
| It doesn't make any sense. | ||
| Pull that fight up. | ||
| I'm gonna see that fight. | ||
| Arturo Gatti, Joey Gamache. | ||
| That was a disturbing one. | ||
| The thing is, you see so many of those kind of KOs in MMA. It makes you realize, yeah, Arturo Gatti was just far bigger than him in this fight. | ||
| And he was also... | ||
| This is Arturo Gatti when he was really world class, too, at the top of his game. | ||
| Aren't they working on a Gatti movie or something? | ||
| Well, you know, he was killed by his girlfriend. | ||
| He was killed by his girlfriend. | ||
| She got away with it, or his wife. | ||
| His wife was this Brazilian chick. | ||
| And she got out of jail. | ||
| When she got out of jail, she was smiling. | ||
| It's really disturbing. | ||
| He got clipped there with a left hook. | ||
| It was real bad. | ||
| Like, um... | ||
| They think that there was some severe... | ||
| Oh, there's the KO. They think there's some severe corruption involved in her acquittal because she got acquitted in Brazil. | ||
| And they said that he committed suicide, but he had some sort of blunt force trauma on his head. | ||
| It was a big deal. | ||
| And it was very sad for a lot of people that were Arturo Gatti fans because... | ||
| His fights with Mickey Ward were... | ||
| There's fights where guys are matched perfectly. | ||
| Where it's like their skill level... | ||
| We're talking about Arturo Gatti and Mickey Ward and how Gatti was... | ||
| Pat Miletic returns from the restroom. | ||
| How Gatti was killed by his girlfriend or his wife. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And acquitted. | ||
| She was acquitted. | ||
| And it was pretty obvious that someone murdered him and they passed it off as a... | ||
| Because of domestic or something? | ||
| No, no. | ||
| She fucking killed him, man. | ||
| And when she got out of jail, she was smiling. | ||
| They're taking pictures of her leaving jail. | ||
| I think it was just a Brazil job. | ||
| Corruption in Brazil is bad. | ||
| They tried to get rid of the fucking president recently, right? | ||
| I don't know what happened with that. | ||
| They were just stealing money, period. | ||
| Right? | ||
| There's some severe corruption in Brazil and apparently, in this case, most people think that she killed him and that she got away with it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| To get an understanding, too, of the Brazilian people, you have to read a book called Te Guerrero. | ||
| Have you ever heard of that book? | ||
| No. | ||
| I saw The City of God, though. | ||
| Yeah? | ||
| You want to understand fucking Brazilians, watch that movie, City of God. | ||
| I've never heard of it. | ||
| Holy shit. | ||
| Go ahead, tell me about this movie and I'll tell you about this book, rather. | ||
| So El Tegrero was a book about Sasha and Ernst Semmel, two Russians who had engineering degrees, who went to Brazil around 1920, 1921 during the Diamond Rush, right? | ||
| And this is when, ironically, I think, when the Gracie's started learning jujitsu, right? | ||
| About the same... | ||
| So Ernst and Sasha Semmel both were catch-wrestling guys and boxers. | ||
| Just tough Russians, right? | ||
| We know how tough Russians are. | ||
| So anyway, they are working their way through Brazil and through the Mato Grosso, stopping at ranches and towns, fixing guns, because the Brazilians didn't know how to fix their guns, to pay their way further in as they were getting towards the rivers and all that sort of stuff, and to find diamonds. | ||
| That was their thing. | ||
| But during all of this, And Sasha Semmel was fighting no-holds-barred fights against Paraglion Strongman and all this sort of stuff in the ring. | ||
| And then he became a guy who was what's called a tegrero, a guy who can use a spear and kill one of the big cats in the jungles back then that was killing the cattle, killing the ranch hands, all this sort of stuff. | ||
| These are 400-pound cats, right? | ||
| These are big, scary panthers in the jungle. | ||
| So he went and sought out and found an Indian, a Brazilian Indian, who was supposedly a toguero, the expert. | ||
| And he found this guy, and the guy's just drunk, just completely drunk. | ||
| And he goes, I want you to take me and teach me how to do this. | ||
| And so they go, and the guy's drinking the whole time. | ||
| And he goes, they run across a big cat, and what these cats would do is riflemen on horses would go track the cats. | ||
| The cats would double back on them, take them off their horse and kill them, right? | ||
| So they were killing riflemen. | ||
| So these cats were smart. | ||
| So this guy taught him, though, he watched this guy drunk kill a 400-pound cat with a spear. | ||
| And then he taught him how they would sit on their paws, whether they were going high to attack you, whether they were coming low, how to position the spear, all that sort of stuff. | ||
| So, Sasha Semmel became a white guy who killed 33 big cats for ranches, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| With a spear? | ||
| Yeah, it's the coolest. | ||
| You couldn't write it any better, but to tell you about the Brazilian mindset, there was a guy in one of the gunsmith, blacksmith shops where they were fixing guns for people. | ||
| That this one Brazilian had an attitude, and Sasha insulted him in front of the friends. | ||
| So this guy, then, once you insult a Brazilian back in those days especially, they have to kill you because you disrespected them so badly in front of their family and friends. | ||
| And they're just hot-blooded people, right? | ||
| You've been around enough Brazilians, they're hot-blooded people. | ||
| Vanderlei Silva, when he loses his temper, it's a pretty scary dude. | ||
| So this guy tracks them for a while, and then they hire a guy that's the sheriff of Pasifundo, who has a necklace of human ears to prove he brings back the ears of the person you paid him to kill, and that's how he got paid, right? | ||
| So he had a necklace of human ears, and he was hunting Sasha and Ernst. | ||
| It's the coolest book you've ever read. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| It's incredible. | ||
| How do you spell it? | ||
| T-I-G-R-E-R-O. But it's a rare book. | ||
| A friend of mine gave it to Guerrero. | ||
| It's a rare book. | ||
| It's hard to find. | ||
| And John Wayne was going to make a movie about it. | ||
| But they couldn't do the movie. | ||
| They were going to do it in the 50s or whatever it was. | ||
| But they couldn't because the Amazon was still too dangerous. | ||
| There's cannibals everywhere and all kinds of stuff. | ||
| And malaria and everything else. | ||
| So there's actually a documentary about going there. | ||
| To do the site surveys and all that sort of stuff, and they went... | ||
| Did they have malaria in South America? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| I thought malaria was just an African disease. | ||
| In the Amazon and stuff like that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| Right. | ||
| Well, I'm sure they've got plenty of diseases. | ||
| But yeah, the cannibals, that's like what got that explorer, that English explorer in the lost city of Z, right? | ||
| I've never heard of that. | ||
| Yeah, The Lost City of Z is a book that they turned into a movie a couple of years ago about this guy, and it turned out that what he had discovered has now been proven that there was some ancient systems there, some ancient... | ||
| Civilization? | ||
| Yeah, civilization, but also irrigation systems, and they've figured out that they had all these roads and stuff because of satellite imagery. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And some new technology where they can look through the bushes and all the jungle foliage and stuff and see structures. | ||
| Look at this dude. | ||
| There he is. | ||
| Is that a spear right next to him? | ||
| Is that a gun or a spear? | ||
|
unidentified
|
A gun with a bayonet on it. | |
| But there's pictures of him with spears going up against cats, too. | ||
| Jesus Christ, dude. | ||
| He was hardcore, man. | ||
| Wow, there's a spear. | ||
| That's a spear. | ||
| What a fucking animal. | ||
| Jesus Christ, that's so crazy. | ||
| Yeah, think about that. | ||
| I spoke to his son. | ||
| I was writing a screenplay on his life. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| And I talked to his son, Sasha Jr., about it, and he eventually just didn't want to do the life rights thing and all that. | ||
| What if they ate the Jaguars? | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| Did you know mountain lion's delicious? | ||
| Is it? | ||
| I have people that say it's their favorite food. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I had no idea you could even eat it, but it's apparently a more delicious version of pork. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah, it's supposed to be fantastic. | ||
| Mountain lion loin, like the back loin, back strap from a mountain loin. | ||
| Mountain lion, yeah. | ||
| There's things I'll eat and things I won't. | ||
| I don't know if I'd eat a predator. | ||
| I'd eat the fuck out of a mountain lion. | ||
| Yeah? | ||
| I don't like them. | ||
| Yeah, I eat them. | ||
| One of them killed my dog when I lived in Colorado. | ||
| Really? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| I've seen two of them. | ||
| I saw that one, and I saw one of them in Santa Barbara. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| It was actually driving through Montecito, a real nice neighborhood, and I saw this thing run across the road, and at first I thought it was a coyote, and then I saw the tail, and I went, oh, shit, that's a cat. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Then I realized it was a mountain lion. | ||
| Was it a big cat? | ||
| Not that big. | ||
| No? | ||
| 50, 60 pounds. | ||
| Because there's some big ones. | ||
| There's obviously some massive ones out there. | ||
| Fucking giant ones. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Colorado's got some fucking whoppers. | ||
| And the coyotes, the coyotes where I live, they're everywhere. | ||
| You ever see the picture of the one? | ||
| We're supposed to get that. | ||
| Whatever happened with that? | ||
| The Hollywood sign with the cat? | ||
| We were supposed to buy that. | ||
| I need to get... | ||
|
unidentified
|
I found the place to get it. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Let me revisit that and buy that thing. | ||
| Because there's an iconic photo, to me, that just symbolizes our intrusion into the wild world and the consequences of it. | ||
| There's an enormous cat that lives in the Hollywood Hills. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And there's a photo of him. | ||
| Look at this. | ||
| This is taken by a camera trap. | ||
| This is a real photo of this fucking cat. | ||
| Oh, they've got him tagged. | ||
| They've got a collar on him. | ||
| They've got a collar on him. | ||
| They know the cat. | ||
| I had a... | ||
| I forget the guy's name. | ||
| The gentleman that we talked about the other day, that was the Ranger, was explaining to us how they do it. | ||
| They have to dart this fucker every couple of years when the collar goes dead. | ||
| So every couple of years this guy goes into fucking dreamland like George St. Pierre. | ||
| And I lost the time and comes back. | ||
| Oh, there's him with a deer. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's like digging a hole, I guess. | ||
| No, the coyotes are ruthless where I live, man. | ||
| They're everywhere. | ||
| Oh, they're fucking everywhere. | ||
| One killed my chicken just two days ago. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| Yeah, I have chickens. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I was out in the backyard. | ||
| I saw the cunt jump on the roof of the chicken coop and then jump over the top of the fence. | ||
| They're so graceful, though. | ||
| They're smart. | ||
| Oh, so smart, man. | ||
| One of my good buddies who... | ||
| He sold his company to Orkin. | ||
| So he was an expert at getting rid of deer, getting rid of coyotes, getting rid of anything off your property, getting rid of raccoons out of your house, whatever, right? | ||
| He's the guy that started trapping when he was 10 years old, right? | ||
| And some of my buddies did that and he was one of them. | ||
| But he became the expert, sold his company to Orkin for a lot of money. | ||
| But he's the first and foremost guy besides one other guy, I think. | ||
| Worldwide that is the expert in trapping coyotes. | ||
| And when he explains it to you, you sit there and go, how smart? | ||
| If there's anything out of place, they never take the same way back to their den ever. | ||
| They always go a different route. | ||
| They're smart about covering their tracks. | ||
| And to trap them, he goes, if you do one thing wrong, they recognize it right away and they're gone. | ||
| So he had to go and really study research. | ||
| There's a great book by Dan Flores. | ||
| It's called Coyote America. | ||
| And Dan is a professor at, I think, was he from a university in New Mexico? | ||
| He's from New Mexico. | ||
| Genius guy. | ||
| But he went into great detail about how intelligent these fucking things are, about how Native Americans used to think they were gods, that they were tricksters. | ||
| And they're basically wolves. | ||
| They're a small wolf. | ||
| Miniature, yeah. | ||
| They're just a miniature wolf. | ||
| Super intelligent. | ||
| My old house that I had, that had some timber on it and stuff, I had a fox down across the creek on the hillside. | ||
| I'd watch the fox coming back with squirrels and rabbits every morning at 4 or 5 when I'd be up to get workouts in. | ||
| I'd be drinking coffee. | ||
| I'd have turkey vultures on my friggin... | ||
| Turkey vultures are this big, man. | ||
| They're massive. | ||
| And they'd sit on the railing of my porch outside. | ||
| I hear my wife scream. | ||
| Just shriek and go, Jesus! | ||
| I go, what? | ||
| She goes, what the fuck are those things? | ||
| Was she not from around there? | ||
| No, she's from Montreal. | ||
| Her first language is French. | ||
| She's a city girl, all that sort of stuff. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| He brought her to Iowa. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Well, she was studying to be a doctor of chiropractic at Palmer, which is in Davenport, Iowa. | ||
| And so, you know, the thing is, though, I had eagles, owls, hawks, herds of deer, coyotes, all kinds of crazy stuff running through my yard constantly. | ||
| And that's when I had the mastiff and a shepherd and some other stuff that... | ||
| My mastiff wanted to kill everything that came into my yard. | ||
| Oh, for sure. | ||
| A big-ass dog like that? | ||
| Iowa, that's one of the best places in the world for whitetail deer. | ||
| They're huge. | ||
| I have a buddy of mine, my friend John Dudley. | ||
| He bought a farm out in Iowa just to hunt whitetails. | ||
| Yeah, so the Milletich farm is down in southern Iowa. | ||
| And my grandma on the other side, her farm was down there also. | ||
| And it's, you know, obviously a lot of timber also. | ||
| And it's the deer you see down there. | ||
| And even, you know, in Benton, North Iowa, where I live, which is right next to the Mississippi River, the deer are huge. | ||
| I see a deer in Texas and they look like a German Shepherd. | ||
| Yeah, it's interesting, right? | ||
| You know what that is? | ||
| That's the warmth. | ||
| And the corn. | ||
| There's that, too. | ||
| Corn, soybeans, all that sort of stuff. | ||
| They're well-fed all the time. | ||
| Dude, I hit a deer, what was it, a year and a half ago with my F-150, and all it was was his chest hit the front of the quarter panel and scraped down it and destroyed the whole side of my truck. | ||
| Just destroyed it. | ||
| They're that big. | ||
| They're tanks. | ||
| Now imagine hitting a moose. | ||
| My dad hit a moose. | ||
| Almost killed him. | ||
| Oh, Jesus. | ||
| The vehicle caught on fire because the moose crushed into the engine compartment and caved in the front of the vehicle, and then it all caught on fire. | ||
| My dad had to friggin' go out to kick the back window out to get out. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And if you honk at a moose, if you stop and then honk at a moose... | ||
| They'll kick your ass. | ||
| They'll run and smash your car. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, so you just... | ||
| Seeing a moose... | ||
| I went on a fishing trip, one of the many fishing trips I went on in Canada with a friend of mine, Mark Lewis. | ||
| And we were in a V-bottom boat, there was three of us, and we were going, the English River system, if you ever want to go fishing in the summer for badass fish, I mean, you'll wear out catching fish up there. | ||
| It's north of Lake of the Woods. | ||
| And we were going across the lake, and the English River system is massive, and it's endless amounts of islands. | ||
| You can get lost real easy up there. | ||
| But we were cutting across the lake, and we got into this bay, and there was a moose swimming across the bay, you know, the huge rack on it and everything else. | ||
| And my buddy Mark goes, pull up next to it. | ||
| I go, what? | ||
| He goes, yeah, just pull up right to its ass end. | ||
| So I pulled up kind of just on its ass, and he jumps out of the boat on its back. | ||
| Oh, no, he didn't. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| So he's riding on the back of the moose, and the moose is doing this, trying to get to him. | ||
| And finally, he jumps off, climbs back in the boat. | ||
| We turn away, and right then, the moose hit shallow ground and came up right after. | ||
| He would have been dead. | ||
| He would have been dead. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's a big fucking animal. | ||
| They're one of the rare deer species that almost regularly charges people. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, they fuck people up all the time. | ||
| They run into Duluth, Minnesota in downtown and smash everybody. | ||
| Yeah, they just stomp people in Alaska, too. | ||
| And it's usually, the problem is if you find a female that's with her babies, that's when you're in real, real trouble. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So do you hunt much? | ||
| Yeah, a lot. | ||
| Do you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Where do you hunt usually? | ||
| I've hunted in Iowa. | ||
| I hunted in Iowa for whitetail last year. | ||
| Southern Iowa? | ||
| He's outside of Des Moines. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| About like 45 minutes outside of Des Moines. | ||
| I hunt Utah. | ||
| I shot an elk in Utah this year. | ||
| I got another elk in Central California. | ||
| I try to go to as many places as possible. | ||
| I'm going next month. | ||
| I'm going to Lanai for axis deer. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Mostly bow hunt. | ||
| That's what I do most of the time. | ||
| That's cool. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I love it. | |
| Got a hell of a bow hunting thing set up in here. | ||
| Yeah, it's a pretty bad aspect there, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sick! | |
| 45-yard indoor range. | ||
| Yeah, that's cool. | ||
| It's good. | ||
| Keep practice. | ||
| The doctor that I told you about, Tyson Cobb, the orthopedic surgeon that fixed Tim's arm, he was a bow hunter who went and got crocodile in Africa, you know, big all-giant game, stuff like that. | ||
| You know, the stuff that he hunted was, I mean, you know, killing a grizzly with a bow is some scary stuff. | ||
| Yeah, that's a real risky proposition. | ||
| Yeah, but he did stuff like that. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| My friend Dudley that I was telling you about that lives in Iowa, he does that too. | ||
| He goes all over the world and hunts. | ||
| You miss. | ||
| Yeah, it's very, very risky. | ||
| Very risky. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But, you know, the thing about the grizzly hunting is, like, people don't like it. | ||
| Like, it's gotten to the point where in BC they've outlawed it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And they really shouldn't have. | ||
| And the reason being is that you've got to control the populations because there's nothing that eats them. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| Except them. | ||
| They're all cannibals. | ||
| All grizzlies. | ||
| Even black bears are all cannibals. | ||
| They eat the cubs all the time. | ||
| And if one of them dies, like if you, I've been black bear hunting before, and if you shoot a black bear and like maybe you shoot it like right before dark and it runs off in the bush and you don't want to go after it, you come back in the morning, bears are eating it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They eat their own. | ||
| I've just been a guy that, you know, I don't have time to hunt. | ||
| I've gone deer hunting a couple times. | ||
| I just never, you know, I'm more efficient. | ||
| I love to fish. | ||
| I do too. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So that's my thing. | ||
| What kind of fishing do you do? | ||
| I've fished for shark off a beach before. | ||
| That's another thing that people get mad at. | ||
| They get mad if you eat sharks now. | ||
| Well, we let them go. | ||
| We let them go. | ||
| That's not a big deal. | ||
| But I watched a guy from Black Bart's tackle company. | ||
| They taught me how to do it off the beach. | ||
| These guys are catching 14-foot hammerheads off the beach, dude. | ||
| Do you know one of the best places to fish for sharks, rather, is off of Catalina? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, really? | |
| Right out here. | ||
| For Great White? | ||
| No, for Mako. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| It's like one of the best Mako shark hunting. | ||
| Which are massive, too. | ||
| Huge. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, but they taught me how to do that. | ||
| I love fishing for Barracuda just because they're so aggressive. | ||
| It's a fun fish. | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| They're scarier than hell. | ||
| As fast as they hit a lure, it's crazy. | ||
| They're crazy looking. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I love muskie, pike fishing, bass fishing. | ||
| I was going to say, they look like a pike on steroids. | ||
| Yeah, they are. | ||
| That's what they are. | ||
| They're the sea water version. | ||
| You muskie fish? | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| Muskies are awesome. | ||
| So I went muskie fishing at the Lacoutere Indian Reservation. | ||
| It's the Chippewa flowage where the biggest muskie in the world was ever caught, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| How big was that? | ||
| 67 pounds, 71 pounds. | ||
| I don't know, but it's huge. | ||
| It's huge. | ||
| Coyote-sized muskies. | ||
| But they've found jaws and teeth of muskies that are twice that size, right? | ||
| Just washed up on shore type stuff. | ||
| So there's huge muskies still. | ||
| But the guy that took me fishing, he took a job. | ||
| He used to work in Vegas for the casino, down in Vegas. | ||
| I forget which one. | ||
| And he left that and went back to Wisconsin, northern Wisconsin, because he wanted to muskie fish, right? | ||
| So he took a job with the Lacoutte Ray Indian Reservation. | ||
| Just so he could muskie fish. | ||
| And he was the vice president. | ||
| Holy shit! | ||
| Look at the size of that fucking thing! | ||
| They're terrifying, right? | ||
| That looks like a person. | ||
| That's like a person-sized fish. | ||
| That's less than 60 pounds? | ||
| But those will attack you. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| You know, they'll attack you. | ||
| They're that vicious. | ||
| I knew a dude who invented a lure. | ||
| Do I know him or I know his friend? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Anyway, someone invented a lure that was a duck. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It was a fake duck. | ||
| That's what my grandpa used to fish for, with ducklings. | ||
| You'd hook them through the tail and throw them out on top of the lake and let them swim around, and the muskie would hit them. | ||
| Yeah, isn't that crazy? | ||
| That's how they do it. | ||
| That they regularly eat ducks. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| This guy had a lure that as you pull it in, as you reeled it in, the paddles, the feet would move, and the muskie would think it's a real duck, and they'd jack them. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So they... | ||
| But the guy, he was that casino guy that took me fishing. | ||
| What do you got here, Jamie? | ||
| It's called a suicide duck lure. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| Nice. | ||
| See, my fishing days are a long fucking time ago. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This is like when I was a very early teenager, like 13, 14. I was addicted to fishing. | ||
| I fished constantly. | ||
| I still fish. | ||
| I still love it. | ||
| But I'm out of the loop in terms of that this is a regular thing. | ||
| So this is a duck. | ||
| Oh, so the duck is like he's running away. | ||
| And a muskie comes in Jackson. | ||
| Got to make him look panicked, right? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| But he was the vice president of the Muskie World Association, and he took me fishing, and he goes, we have tons of muskies that we've radio tagged. | ||
| He goes, but we're not going to use that. | ||
| That's cheating. | ||
| I know their patterns anyway. | ||
| How do they radio tag a muskie? | ||
| They just punch the thing by the dorsal fin, and it's got the little... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, wow. | |
| So it gives out a transmitter, and you can find out their patterns or whatever. | ||
| But he goes, I'll take you muskie fishing tomorrow if you want to go. | ||
| I said, yeah, awesome. | ||
| So we go to the bait store, and he gets chubs this big. | ||
| That's the bait. | ||
| So you're holding your hand out about a foot and a half. | ||
| They're at least 12, 14-inch fish, right? | ||
| That's the bait, right? | ||
| And he'd hook them through by the dorsal fin. | ||
| We'd go out in the boat, drop the chub straight down, then we'd go back to the island. | ||
| And he had a rod holder, put the pole in there, set the drag reel light, put a bobber at the top of the line so you could see the bobber move if something was taken off with it. | ||
| And we did that four separate times with four lines. | ||
| And then we sat in the boat and ate sandwiches and just talked. | ||
| And then all of a sudden the bobber takes off. | ||
| He goes, all right, I'm going to pull up, you run and grab the pole, jump back in the boat. | ||
| He goes, I'm going to maneuver you and keep you, you have to stay over the top of the fish. | ||
| And with musky, trolling motors scare them, but a regular boat motor idling does not for some reason. | ||
| So I'm learning a ton of stuff from this guy. | ||
| And he goes, we have to, for 25 minutes, you have to let him turn that fish head first and then swallow it. | ||
| That's the rule. | ||
| About 25 minutes it takes them. | ||
| They take their time, they wait until it's dead, they crush it with their jaws. | ||
| And they slowly flip it, and then they swallow it. | ||
| And he goes, but if it starts to run any time before that, you have to try and set the hook. | ||
| That's just the way it is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And this is my first time muskie fishing. | ||
| So when they start chewing on them, you just wait? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, you stay over them. | ||
| So the muskie will be swimming along. | ||
| Besides that fucker. | ||
| Yeah, so they'll be swimming along. | ||
| So somebody caught that bass, and then the muskie grabbed it. | ||
| And the muskie's got ahold of it, so they don't have the muskie, they just have the bass. | ||
| Right, so you've got to let them turn them and then set the hook, then you'll catch the muskie, right? | ||
| So that's what we did, and at about 17 minutes it took off, started to run. | ||
| I set the hook, and I caught a 52-inch muskie, first time out. | ||
| Ooh! | ||
| Holy shit! | ||
| It felt like I set the hook in a log. | ||
| That is a big fucking thing. | ||
| Yeah, really cool stuff. | ||
| 52-inch muskie. | ||
| Yeah, their northern pike fishing is very fun. | ||
| I've done that in Alberta. | ||
| Some of my favorite times. | ||
| They hit hard. | ||
| Yeah, and so the English river system where we used to go, if you catch a... | ||
| You know, a pike this long, you leave it on the hook because a big one's coming. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And the first time it happened to me, scared the living shit out of me. | ||
| So when you catch a pike that's two feet long and you just leave it on the hook... | ||
| Let it swim around. | ||
| Up there anyway. | ||
| And you're just hoping that something's way bigger. | ||
| No, you're not hoping. | ||
| It's coming. | ||
| Really? | ||
| It's coming. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah, so a big one's gonna come. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is this one here? | |
| Yeah, watch this. | ||
| Fucking cannibals. | ||
| Cannibals in the cold water world. | ||
| Remember Babe Winkleman, the professional fisherman? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, sure. | |
| So this one is right there. | ||
| Here it comes. | ||
| And he's just holding it over. | ||
| This bigger one that's underneath it. | ||
| They're such a crazy animal, too. | ||
| Like, pikes seem prehistoric. | ||
| And they are cannibals, without a doubt. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Babe Winkleman, I watched a video while I was in Canada fishing. | ||
| We were at the lodge, and Babe Winkleman's asking this guy who's an Indian guide. | ||
| He goes, so what do pike eat? | ||
| And the guide goes, uh, pike. | ||
| They eat pike. | ||
| And he goes, no, what do pike eat? | ||
| He goes, pike. | ||
| Like, they breed so they have food. | ||
| That's what they eat. | ||
| They're just aggressive, mean fish. | ||
| Yeah, and they live in that dog-eat-dog cold water environment where there's three feet of ice above them half the time. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, all those animals up there, like we're talking about bears, about bears being cannibals and pike being cannibals and the fucking deer 350 pounds. | ||
| It's just a tough, tough world. | ||
| Hardcore, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, when it gets that goddamn cold, it's a tough world. | ||
| Then you go to a whole other level and go to places like Africa and Australia. | ||
| And it's hot. | ||
| It's another world too. | ||
| Everything's deadly in Australia. | ||
| I wouldn't even want to live there. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Adam Greentree, listen to Pat Miletic. | ||
| My friend Adam, who shot that water buffalo head in Australia, keeps trying to get me to go down there and hunt with him. | ||
| And every time he sends me pictures of spiders that can kill you, a lizard that can kill you, a snake that can kill you. | ||
| Brown snakes, all that. | ||
| Yeah, everything. | ||
| Everything kills you. | ||
| Centipedes. | ||
| And they have these gigantic 2,000-pound buffaloes that are super hyper-aggressive. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And they're roaming around. | ||
| Smash you. | ||
| Well, they have to kill them, though. | ||
| That's another thing. | ||
| It's like the grizzly bear thing. | ||
| They don't have predators. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, in Alaska... | ||
| But they're herbivores, so they're kind of meant to be hunted in my mind. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| No, I agree, but there's nothing to hunt them out there. | ||
| The problem with Australia is that these are invasive species. | ||
| They brought pretty much everything over there. | ||
| So the ranchers brought them there or something for beef? | ||
| Someone brought them there a long time ago. | ||
| New Zealand's the craziest place because New Zealand is essentially, they set it up as a wild game park for rich Europeans a long time ago. | ||
| And so now they have these enormous stags and all these huge animals that live there, but no predators. | ||
| So sometimes they have to thin the herd. | ||
| They have to fly over with helicopters and just gun them down. | ||
| Well, they hunt. | ||
| I mean, we're allowed, they made a rule in Bettendorf, Iowa, that within city limits, you could hunt deer with a bow. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Within city limits, because there's just so many of them. | ||
| You see a herd of 50 of them. | ||
| They do that in Pennsylvania, too. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah, there's a lot of places where they just get so overrun that they have what they call urban hunting. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Where people set up tree stands in their backyard. | ||
| You know, as far as the fishing goes, you should go noodling. | ||
| Noodling for catfish? | ||
| You want to bite your hand? | ||
| Fuck that. | ||
| That seems so stupid. | ||
| Because occasionally you fuck up and get a snapping turtle, right? | ||
| Or a beaver. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Ah! | |
| Fucking beaver! | ||
| Imagine a beaver that can chew down a tree. | ||
| Imagine what it'd do to your wrist. | ||
| Oh, it would hurt. | ||
| It would definitely hurt. | ||
| I did it one time and that was it. | ||
| You went noodling one time? | ||
| Did you get lucky? | ||
| Yeah, it was like 14 pounder. | ||
| But when they snap down on your arm, it scares the shit out of you. | ||
| Oh, I'm sure. | ||
| Now, what is the idea? | ||
| Is that the catfish thinks you're intruding? | ||
| No, they think it's a fish. | ||
| Oh, they do think it's a fish. | ||
| So your hand is bait. | ||
| Fuck that. | ||
| I like fishing poles. | ||
| I like to be in a boat or on the shore. | ||
| I like all the sophisticated, intelligent things. | ||
| So I was going to ask you, how's it been working with Jimmy Smith? | ||
| I love that guy. | ||
| I want to get him hired. | ||
| He's brilliant. | ||
| He's a very smart guy. | ||
| I tried to get him hired about four years ago. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because the UFC was looking for guys. | ||
| First of all, I was trying to do less commentary because I was traveling too much. | ||
| And I was trying to do less. | ||
| I was like, you've got to hire this guy. | ||
| He's the best. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He's really, really good. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's smart. | |
| I love listening to him. | ||
| We're doing our first show together in April. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| The Tony Ferguson-Khabib Nurmagomedov fight. | ||
| Oh, good, good. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Khabib versus Tony is going to be a perfect fight for us. | ||
| So who's coloring play-by-play then? | ||
| Is he doing play-by-play and you're doing color? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, no. | |
| John Anik's doing play-by-play and Jimmy and I are both doing color. | ||
| We're just going to have fun. | ||
| He's a friend, you know, and he's been on the podcast a bunch of times. | ||
| We're buddies, so it'll be a good time. | ||
| And didn't he cut his teeth doing a TV show about combat sports or about fighting around the world or whatever, learning different arts? | ||
| Was it called Fight Sport? | ||
| What was it called? | ||
| Something like that. | ||
| Fight Quest. | ||
| Fight Quest, yeah. | ||
| It was... | ||
| Yeah, he did that, but he also had MMA fights, and he's a legit black belt in jiu-jitsu. | ||
| No, he knows his stuff. | ||
| He's a super smart and well-read guy, too. | ||
| I'm excited. | ||
| I'm excited that he's on board. | ||
| Yeah, I always liked listening to him. | ||
| Yeah, Bellator fucked up. | ||
| They fucked up and they let that guy go. | ||
| I was wondering what... | ||
| Not to pry, but my guess was he just asked for more money, probably because he had an offer from the UFC. They wouldn't match it, so he took off, whatever. | ||
| Well, they didn't want him leaving for the UFC four years ago when I tried to get him hired. | ||
| And there was like a big hullabaloo and they wound up keeping him. | ||
| And then I think his contract was up. | ||
| And I think the way he described it was they actually wanted to give him less money. | ||
| That he was getting. | ||
| And it's like, I think they're just experiencing some severe budget cuts. | ||
| If you think about Bellator's market, like what they're trying to do, they don't have a pay-per-view business, you know? | ||
| And if you don't have a pay-per-view business, where's the bulk of all your money coming from? | ||
| It's kind of bleeding Viacom. | ||
| I just thought, you know, when it happened, I said, why didn't they change the name when Coker was brought in to take over? | ||
| It made zero sense to me because Bellator had that You know, from Bjorn Rebny, I've never been a Bjorn Rebny fan. | ||
| Bjorn Rebny, you know, from that boxing promoter type, you know, whatever it was. | ||
| And everybody that I talked to in that In that business, they were all terrified and intimidated and everything else. | ||
| Of him? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I never met the guy. | ||
| I don't know anything about him other than the bad things that I've heard from fighters. | ||
| Right. | ||
| King Mo calling him a dick rider. | ||
| King Mo! | ||
|
unidentified
|
That was hilarious. | |
| King Mo and I go back and forth on the internet, on Facebook and stuff. | ||
| I'll deliberately piss him off on political stuff and just get him stirred up. | ||
| He's an underappreciated talent when it comes to fighting, too. | ||
| Yeah, no. | ||
| That guy was... | ||
| Had some serious physical problems, though, like with MRSA. He had some serious staph infections. | ||
| Some real bad ones that wrecked him. | ||
| That fucking shit scared me. | ||
| He's a great guy, though. | ||
| We talk now and then when I see him and stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He is. | |
| He's a cool dude. | ||
| But, God, where were we? | ||
| What were we talking about? | ||
| Bellator. | ||
| We changed the name. | ||
| They should have changed the name. | ||
| It's just synonymous with tournaments, and a guy loses the title, and suddenly he's thrown back into a tournament. | ||
| He's already made his name. | ||
| It's just a dumb name. | ||
| It's just a shitty business model. | ||
| And Bellator was for the Spanish-speaking crowd, right? | ||
| Wasn't that what they were trying to get out of that whole thing? | ||
| I think it's a Latin word, right? | ||
| Or a Roman word for gladiator or some shit. | ||
| But yeah, it started out as... | ||
| Wasn't it on ESPN Deportes or something like that? | ||
| Yeah, but it just didn't make sense with Coker taking over. | ||
| I don't want to watch the Geritol posse fight. | ||
| That's all they're doing. | ||
| I don't want to see a Pat Miletic fight. | ||
| I don't want to see it. | ||
| I love some of those guys, but I don't want to watch it. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| It's a young man's sport. | ||
| It's guys that are animals, fast movers, just beasts, invincible human beings in their mid-20s to 30-whatever, early 30s. | ||
| A guy that's 45 years old is just not... | ||
| Not just 45, but 45 years old with MMA miles on him. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's the real issue. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| It's that these guys, their bodies have been beaten up for so many decades in the gym and all the years of wrestling and kickboxing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're just not the same. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| You know? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It takes its toll. | ||
| It definitely takes its toll and you're just not... | ||
| You're just not the same guy. | ||
| I mean, there's part of me that respects the shit out of a guy like Hoist Gracie, still a fucking savage at 50 years of age, ready to throw down with anybody. | ||
| He wouldn't fight me. | ||
| He wouldn't? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Son of a... | |
| When was this? | ||
| I've been trying to... | ||
| I mean, with Bellator, I said, freaking get Gracie to fight me. | ||
| When he was fighting Shamrock, I confronted Shamrock on Axis. | ||
| That was one of the worst fights that I had. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, it was bad. | |
| Was when Matt... | ||
| Beat the shit out of him. | ||
| When Matt took his back and was smashing him. | ||
| And I was like, Jesus Christ. | ||
| I was like, this is so mismatched. | ||
| So Hoist is in a different era. | ||
| And Matt is, even though Matt's not ranked, he's a legit black belt. | ||
| And a stud wrestler. | ||
| And a physical freak. | ||
| And super experienced with modern, high-level MMA. Whereas Hoist was living in the past. | ||
| And the thing was with that, that was after Rob Lawler, Rory Markham, myself, Tim Sylvia, Gan McGee, Chuck Lydell, all of us were on that movie set in Mexico, that Paul Walker film. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Paul was a great guy. | ||
| He was legitimately a good human being. | ||
| I'm sure you knew him and all that. | ||
| I didn't know him, but I heard great things about him. | ||
| The stuff that he did on the set to stick up for the small guys was incredible. | ||
| Maybe we've got time to talk about it, or not, but... | ||
| We had gotten done with that. | ||
| We'd become friends with Paul Walker and Oakley Lemon, who was his stunt double for everything. | ||
| The stunt guys were all really cool with us. | ||
| We kind of gravitated towards them because they're stunt guys and we're fighters. | ||
| We got along really well with them. | ||
| But Lawrence Fishburne was on the set, the Carradine brothers. | ||
| I'm a kid from Iowa going, this is fucking awesome, man. | ||
| These are cool dudes. | ||
| Just to be around these guys. | ||
| So they were all at that fight in L.A., And Paul Walker and all his actor buddies were in one row. | ||
| Right behind him was Oakley Lemon and all his stunt guys. | ||
| And so Paul Walker was a Gracie Jiu-Jitsu student. | ||
| He, you know, loved that. | ||
| And so they were cheering for Hoist. | ||
| All the stunt guys were cheering for Matt. | ||
| They're the hardcore, like, you know. | ||
| So anyway... | ||
| Matt just dismantles him, wrecks him completely. | ||
| And I turn around. | ||
| I'm up on the deck outside the cage and I turn around. | ||
| And Paul Walker and all these actor buddies are like this. | ||
| Like, holy shit. | ||
| Like, I can't believe this just happened. | ||
| Standing on the chairs behind them is Oakley Lemon and all the stunt guys going, It was it was but I saw Half that crowd crying. | ||
| Yeah, because they saw a god get destroyed right I mean, that's our hero to I mean right hoises like for martial arts. | ||
| He he was a legitimate hero He was the first guy to win the ultimate fighting championship and the way he did it was like, oh look at this These guys using technique that we didn't even know exist little skinny guy. | ||
| That's just manly people and the thing was with all of that Then the Gracies came back with, Hughes was just a better athlete and used all Jiu Jitsu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu to beat Gracie Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| So I went through all the stuff. | ||
| He hit a duck under on Hoist when Hoist tried to hit him with an elbow to wrestling. | ||
| Hit him with a half Nelson when Hoist tried to regain guard when Matt took his back. | ||
| There was just a bunch of wrestling mixed in there, right? | ||
| And so then they brought out Almeida. | ||
| Almeida was their dog to come and beat Matt. | ||
| So they put in Almeida, who was bigger than Matt. | ||
| You know, he's a big dude for that weight division. | ||
| Well, Matt deliberately hit him with a wrestling front headlock and choked him unconscious. | ||
| Well, it was a position that a lot of jiu-jitsu guys are used to being in there, and they just relax because they're waiting for you to spin to the back. | ||
| But instead of spinning to the back, Matt just cranked that fucker down and shut the lights out. | ||
| When you stuff the head under the armpit and you crank that down and twist, you get choked. | ||
| Especially a gorilla like Matt. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so when they did the interview, you were probably the guy doing the interview. | ||
| Yes, I was. | ||
| He goes, you know, it was just nice to use wrestling on a jiu-jitsu game. | ||
| Yeah, and to put him unconscious. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I don't think Ricardo knew that that could put him out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| I mean, a lot of us have been in those positions before, but it's usually a transitionary position where a guy turns and gets your back. | ||
| No one's ever done it since either, by the way. | ||
| No. | ||
| No one's ever choked anybody outside. | ||
| But guys in wrestling will use that stuff, you know, like Dave Lilevich, who wrestled for Purdue. | ||
| Dave and Joey Lilevich, they were all Americans at Purdue. | ||
| They were beasts. | ||
| And obviously, Lilevich, they were Croatians, psycho-Croatians, in Michigan City, Indiana, where they grew up. | ||
| And Lilevich used to use a move that they named the Lilevich, where it was... | ||
| You'd include... | ||
| What the fuck's the name of it? | ||
| Not a Darce, but... | ||
| Anaconda choke? | ||
| It was an anaconda in college wrestling. | ||
| It looked like you had a front headlock, and he would choke people unconscious. | ||
| As soon as they'd go limp, he'd grab the chin, roll them, and pin them. | ||
| Ah, that's right. | ||
| I heard about that. | ||
| So Dave Lilovich pinned Bill Tate from Iowa State. | ||
| Bill Tate was a Waterloo, Iowa guy. | ||
| And he put him asleep. | ||
| He put him asleep and pinned him in the NCAA championships. | ||
| Is that illegal? | ||
| Oh, it's totally illegal, but referees didn't understand it because it looked like you had the arm included in the headlock, right? | ||
| Right, but if you do have an arm included in a headlock, is it your fault if a guy goes to sleep? | ||
| No, not at all. | ||
| So is it illegal to pin him? | ||
| If the referee recognized he went limp, they would stop the match for a potentially dangerous hold or whatever. | ||
| So what you'd have to do is get some of these really bad UFC referees to referee wrestling, and they would have no idea the guy was that. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| But there's guys doing the... | ||
| Do you see at the NCAAs the guy hitting the key lock on the guy trying to break his arm? | ||
| No. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Didn't Mark Schultz do that in the Olympics? | ||
| You know, I'm not sure. | ||
| He ripped a guy's fucking arm off with that. | ||
| I believe he was disqualified. | ||
| I mean, the Schultz brothers were just scary human beings. | ||
| Dave Schultz was just unbeatable. | ||
| Animals. | ||
| They were trying to build people to beat him over in Russia. | ||
| Remember when Mark fought Big Daddy Goodrich? | ||
| He threw him around, ragdolled him. | ||
| But then in the movie, they used a different guy. | ||
| They didn't have him fighting Big Daddy Goodrich in the movie. | ||
| They had him fight some Russian guy. | ||
| Was that Fox? | ||
| Catcher or something? | ||
| Yeah, it was a bullshit scene. | ||
| I was like, why would you do that? | ||
| This is actual real history. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right, right. | |
| You really have a guy who's like one of the best wrestlers to ever fight in MMA. To us, it was a real historical moment. | ||
| And he took it on last second notice. | ||
| Yeah, he fought Big Daddy Goodrich. | ||
| We all remember it. | ||
| But in this fucking movie, you faked it. | ||
| You put someone else in. | ||
| So what else did you fake? | ||
| What other bullshit was in this movie where you're pretending this is a historical recreation of a real national crime that everybody heard about. | ||
| It was a real tragedy. | ||
| And it was a tragedy against a guy who was one of the best wrestlers that America had to offer. | ||
| I felt like it was one of the worst examples of what Hollywood does, the arrogance of Hollywood. | ||
| To do to a real story. | ||
| A real story. | ||
| They decided, fuck Big Daddy Goodrich, why have him in there? | ||
| That would be like Mike Tyson, pretending Mike Tyson won the fucking world title against Ivan Drago or something. | ||
| Really, it would be something akin to that. | ||
| Everybody knows what the real fight was. | ||
| You know, being an Iowa guy, this whole California experience and Hollywood and all this stuff freaks me the fuck out. | ||
| It should. | ||
| It does. | ||
| I was out here pitching TV shows before The Ultimate Fighter. | ||
| I was pitching an Ultimate Fighter show to Kevin Reilly, who was the president of NBC at the time. | ||
| And John Hirschfeld, who you know, John Hirschfeld goes, look, you're going to have maybe five, ten minutes with these people. | ||
| I had him laughing for an hour and a half. | ||
| And they're like, this is awesome. | ||
| I love this show. | ||
| I love this idea. | ||
| And mine was much different than The Ultimate Fighter. | ||
| It actually made sense. | ||
| The four pillars of MMA and competing in each one and all that sort of stuff, right? | ||
| Well, he called us personally and he goes, you know, the board talked about it and the board just, he goes, I couldn't get it through. | ||
| They just don't feel mainstream is ready for this type of thing and all that. | ||
| Then The Ultimate Fighter came out on Spike and the rest was history. | ||
| But Every time I had one show sold to stars, the guy that used to be the president of HBO, remember him? | ||
| Which guy? | ||
| The guy that got in trouble for... | ||
| Got in trouble, right? | ||
| I can't remember his name now offhand. | ||
| I don't remember. | ||
| Brett... | ||
| No. | ||
| Rex? | ||
| No. | ||
| Something Albrecht? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Chris Albrecht? | ||
| Chris Albrecht. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| I had a show sold and then they were going to co-brand it with Spartacus and then the lead actor from Spartacus got terminal cancer and they couldn't co-brand them together and that deal fell apart. | ||
| Then another one that I had sold fell apart because of the collapse in 2008 and I was like, dude, I can't win anything. | ||
| It's a crazy business also. | ||
| If you're an outsider and you're coming in here to try to pitch things, there's so many people they already know that are pitching things. | ||
| You've got to imagine if you're a guy that's a producer or an executive at some sort of a network, you've got people knocking on your door all day long. | ||
| And you're used to quality from certain people or what you want to see. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You've seen their work before. | ||
| It's very hard for an outsider to get in. | ||
| Oh, dude. | ||
| I finally just went... | ||
| I had so many concepts written on a laptop. | ||
| I'd sit up all hours of night writing concepts for shows, all that sort of stuff. | ||
| You know what's interesting? | ||
| This thing that you're doing for fun, your conspiracy farm, that's probably your best way in. | ||
| Podcasts are the best way in, because you need to build an audience, an undeniable audience. | ||
| Well, and we want to go to, you know, black sites, CIA black sites, and... | ||
| Arrest us and drag our ass in there, right? | ||
| We want to get in trouble, right? | ||
| We want to go to places where we're... | ||
| You don't want that. | ||
| You say you want that. | ||
| You don't want that. | ||
| Okay, I get what you're saying, but we want to push the envelope, right? | ||
| We want to push the envelope, and we want to expose the real facts behind what's really going on, and it would cause some heat. | ||
| I'm sure that we'd eventually get a call. | ||
| You know, where you need to kind of divert off the path you're on. | ||
| You think so? | ||
| Without a doubt. | ||
| You looking forward to that call? | ||
| Weren't you starting to do a show like that, though? | ||
| I did Joe Rogan Questions Everything. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| But mostly it was on Bigfoot and UFOs. | ||
| So stuff you're not going to get in trouble for. | ||
| And aliens. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, it was mostly almost all bullshit. | ||
| That's the problem. | ||
| And I was much more interested in conspiracy theories before I did that show, but in the six months that I did that show, and all these different people that I interviewed, and all the stuff you saw in the air was just a fraction of the total mass of all the people that I talked to, mostly was bullshit. | ||
| Mostly it was crazy people. | ||
| Most of these people that just have a bad way of looking at reality. | ||
| They have confirmation bias, and the way they look at things, they just have this very distorted version of what the truth is. | ||
| And they also want Bigfoot to be real. | ||
| They want aliens to be real. | ||
| They want the government to be spraying shit out of planes above us all the time. | ||
| It's all just shitty thinking. | ||
| But we've had Brennan, who was head of the CIA, admit to that, though, at least. | ||
| Well, they admit to one thing. | ||
| That they have looked into weather modification. | ||
| But the idea that every fucking Southwest flight is spraying aluminum and all this different shit in the air. | ||
| No. | ||
| For sure they've experimented on using it for warfare. | ||
| I mean, they've looked into everything. | ||
| Spray the atmosphere over your enemy and have storms break out on them. | ||
| There's that. | ||
| And also, in Abu Dhabi, they make it rain every week. | ||
| They make it rain 52 times a year. | ||
| They just throw money in the air and it fucking rains. | ||
| They just figure out a way to cloud seed. | ||
| And that cloud seeding has been around forever. | ||
| That's real. | ||
| But that's not what you're seeing when you see planes fly overhead and you see those clouds that form behind the planes. | ||
| That is a reaction between the jet engines, the condensation in the atmosphere, the heat of the jet engine. | ||
| And I was never sold on it. | ||
| For a long time, I was never sold on that at all. | ||
| It's ridiculous. | ||
| You know, I was never, you know, in the 9-11 conspiracies and stuff like that. | ||
| The only thing that I've noticed about that is you can see the detonations going off on Building 7 when it never got hit. | ||
| You don't see detonations. | ||
| What you see is floors collapsing and the pressure of these floors collapsing causing these windows to blow out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| This is just what would happen if something was pain-taking in. | ||
| But I don't subscribe to it is what I'm saying. | ||
| I don't subscribe to it. | ||
| I don't subscribe to it either. | ||
| I mean, who knows what the fuck happened... | ||
| With all the shit behind the scenes. | ||
| But what we do know is that a bunch of people capitalize on that, which makes it look like a conspiracy. | ||
| And all the intelligence reports that came out before that happened was that the terrorists planned on using planes as missiles to take down buildings. | ||
| We knew that, at least. | ||
| That's where I stop. | ||
| I lean much more towards incompetence than I do massive conspiracy. | ||
| A bunch of Barney Fives. | ||
| Keystone Cops. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's what I think. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But, who knows. | ||
| I wanted to talk to you about marathons, about ultra-marathons. | ||
| Like, you got into, when did you start getting into this? | ||
| It was a couple years ago. | ||
| John Byrne, who is a professor at a college in my hometown, and he and his family had taken martial arts from me for years, and he one day walked up to me, I think it was 2012? | ||
| Or earlier. | ||
| And he goes, hey, I want to thank you for all the confidence you've given me. | ||
| And he was an amazing guy. | ||
| Very smart guy. | ||
| And a great athlete. | ||
| Great basketball player. | ||
| The guy's now 53 years old, I think. | ||
| And never gets hurt. | ||
| He can do anything he wants and he does not get hurt. | ||
| He's just a genetic freak, right? | ||
| But he comes to me and he goes, thank you for giving me the confidence. | ||
| I love the martial arts training, but I'm going to try something new. | ||
| And I said, what are you going to try? | ||
| And he goes, this thing called the Leadville 100. And I go, what the hell is that? | ||
| He goes, well, it's a high altitude, 100 mile race through the Colorado Rockies. | ||
| And I go, how many days is this supposed to take? | ||
| And he goes, oh no, you do it all at once. | ||
| I go, huh? | ||
| You're going to do 100 miles without basically stopping. | ||
| He goes, yeah. | ||
| He goes, about every 10 miles you get new food and fluids and you just keep going. | ||
| I went, awesome. | ||
| Go do it, man. | ||
| And he went and he finished. | ||
| He barely made the cutoff, which is 30 hours. | ||
| You have to do it, right? | ||
| And so I thought, this is really cool. | ||
| And it was a couple years ago where he sent me a message and he goes, I'm training for Leadville again. | ||
| I go, maybe it's a good idea for me to jump in. | ||
| I want to do something extreme. | ||
| And since I quit fighting, I could never fight. | ||
| There was just that void in my life, right? | ||
| And my health was deteriorating. | ||
| I couldn't figure out how to get back in shape because I was in pain constantly. | ||
| I had asthma, all this other stuff. | ||
| I found out that that was gluten. | ||
| I had a gluten problem, right? | ||
| And I thought before that, I thought if somebody said I'm gluten sensitive or I have allergy to gluten, I'd go, whatever. | ||
| What is gluten, right? | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| But I was running into so many physical problems, I started training with these guys, and I'd be crippled for two, three days. | ||
| I'd be in so much pain that I couldn't do anything. | ||
| And then my buddy goes, and I was getting ready to start eating OxyContin's. | ||
| I mean, I could survive on Motrin, all the pain, everything else. | ||
| But I got to the point where, flying, I'd walk five gates in an airport and have to stop and sit down. | ||
| I was in so much pain. | ||
| My arthritis was just horrible. | ||
| I'd be soaked in sweat. | ||
| Everything else, so I had all these problems, and I figured if I train with these guys, it'll bring me out of this point in life, and it'll change my life, and I'll get back to Pat Milicich of the old. | ||
| Well, I was falling apart worse because of the intensity of the training. | ||
| So my buddy did blood tests on me. | ||
| He goes, you're going to be dead in three years from a heart attack. | ||
| There's so much inflammation in your body if you don't stop eating gluten. | ||
| I go, what the hell is gluten? | ||
| He goes, wheat and soy. | ||
| You have to stop eating it or you're dead. | ||
| Soy is gluten? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Wheat and soy. | ||
| So it's all modified grains, right? | ||
| Soy has been modified. | ||
| Like black beans have been modified for a certain amount of time. | ||
| Your body doesn't digest black beans. | ||
| They're like a waste of time to eat. | ||
| So, but the wheat and the soy is what was causing the inflammation, along with the sprain that goes on with wheat fields and soy fields. | ||
| It's really bad, right? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| So anyway, yeah, it's bad, bad stuff. | ||
| So anyway, he said, you'll be dead in three years from a heart attack. | ||
| There's so much inflammation. | ||
| You have asthma. | ||
| You have three forms of arthritis. | ||
| Your digestion system, your digestive system is destroyed. | ||
| He goes, how's your temper been lately? | ||
| I go, not real good. | ||
| He goes, your brain's getting destroyed. | ||
| Your thinking process is screwed up because the chemicals that your stomach has given off is affecting the way you think. | ||
| It's your second stomach or your second brain, right? | ||
| He goes, so you have to understand that. | ||
| So I quit cold turkey, stopped eating, took about a week before my arthritis subsided, started to go away. | ||
| I went from running three-mile runs and feeling miserable for three days To 10 months later I did a 75 mile run. | ||
| In 10 months though, from not eating that garbage. | ||
| Was it a race, the 75 mile run? | ||
| No, it was actually a training run. | ||
| It was a training run with the guys. | ||
| They worked me up from 3 mile run, 10 mile run, 12 mile, 15, 18, 20, drop back down to a 10 mile run on the weekend. | ||
| They'd always do the long runs on the weekends. | ||
| A lot of times I was doing these runs on no sleep because I'd done a broadcast Friday night. | ||
| Get home the next day on Saturday, have no sleep because, you know, you can finish late and you've got to fly home first thing in the morning is what I always did. | ||
| Operating on no sleep and then starting with a 30 mile run, 35, 45, 50 and then a 75 mile run along with the stuff training during the week that a lot of it I was doing on the road too. | ||
| And it's just an amazing group. | ||
| It's probably the coolest group of people I've been around and David Clark who It's a guy that served as a role model for me, just reading his book, which is called Out There, Ultra Recovery, a guy that was a 320-pound alcoholic who changed his life one day and decided to become a badass ultra runner. | ||
| Just being around those people, they don't show pain. | ||
| They just don't show pain, even when they're in misery. | ||
| It's a weird mindset. | ||
| It's so much different than MMA, where 25 minutes of misery and an exhausting fight is, now that I've gone through some of this stuff, it's a joke. | ||
| It's a complete joke. | ||
| Because when you're out there running 75 miles, 50 miles, I ran 50 miles in 97 degree heat with the same percentage of humidity on a blacktop country road in Iowa, getting scorched, went through probably four hours of heat stroke. | ||
| My brain was getting cooked. | ||
| I mean, I literally felt like I could die at any time. | ||
| And these guys are laughing at me. | ||
| They're laughing. | ||
| They had me in a field at mile 30, a farmer's yard, hosing me down with cold water from the farmer's house just to get my body temperature down so I could get going again, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Just crazy stuff like that. | ||
| They're just hardcore. | ||
| It's an amazing group of people, and I... I encourage people to work their way up, try and find a running group and try it because it's cool shit. | ||
| How often do you do it now? | ||
| I've backed off of late. | ||
| I've been doing more, kind of getting back into grappling a little bit, doing a little bit of kickboxing stuff. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Grappling even with your neck? | ||
| I tell people, look, don't go for the gold. | ||
| You know, and I had to tell them. | ||
| And there's a lot of good grapplers at the place I go to. | ||
| Summit, it's a wrestling and jujitsu facility. | ||
| CrossFit's in there, a bunch of other stuff. | ||
| But some of the guys that I used to train are the senior guys down there. | ||
| And there's some really technical guys, some 10th Planet guys, actually. | ||
| Joel Laughlin follows that system quite a bit. | ||
| And he's a former Special Forces guy. | ||
| And, you know, I just said to everybody the first few times I went down there, I go, look, I have no desire to be a world champion again. | ||
| I've been paralyzed twice from the neck down. | ||
| I have no desire to get into friggin' brawls with any of you. | ||
| I go, I'm here to get back in shape and just grapple and kind of have fun again. | ||
| So let's understand that first and foremost. | ||
| If you go for crazy submissions on my neck, I'm not going to like you a whole lot. | ||
| So I'm doing a lot of that. | ||
| I'm slowly getting kind of back into the mindset of ramping back up with the running and stuff like that. | ||
| My brother, who's 58, who never ran, he did Leadville last year. | ||
| Was it last year? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, that's a guy that never ran. | ||
| And most people take their lifetime to be able to do a marathon. | ||
| He did 50 miles at Leadville. | ||
| Missed the cutoff at 50 miles. | ||
| But he's 58 years old and never ran before. | ||
| And just, he was in love with it. | ||
| He fell in love with it. | ||
| He's in the mountains. | ||
| You know, I already live my sports dreams, Joe. | ||
| I already won a world title. | ||
| I've done some cool shit. | ||
| So to me, running that, when I saw the course and went, this is fantastic. | ||
| This is intimidating. | ||
| To look at a mountain and know you've got to go over it at the 40 to 50 mile mark and then 50 to 60 going back, it's some scary shit. | ||
| It's intimidating. | ||
| My brother was totally the opposite mindset. | ||
| He was like, This is the coolest shit I've ever done in my life. | ||
| He goes, bombing down that mountain was the coolest thing I've ever done in my life. | ||
| This is amazing. | ||
| And I just went, that's the way the mind's supposed to work for stuff like this. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He got it. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, it is a lot of it is how you approach things, right? | ||
| How you approach challenges. | ||
| Like, some people love the idea of something being very difficult. | ||
| Like, what a struggle. | ||
| I can't believe how tough that was. | ||
| You get out of it, you feel exhilarated. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Whereas other people, they look at it like, oh no, I need a couch. | ||
| And a beer, and a sandwich, and a good TV show about fucking, you know, whatever. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So I did Leadville a couple years back. | ||
| And John Byrne and I went out two weeks early, and I had to leave from Colorado, fly back to Providence to do a broadcast, and then fly back. | ||
| He picked me up at the airport, and we went back up. | ||
| But while I was with him for the first couple days, we went up Mount Albert, which is the tallest mountain in Colorado, and I felt the altitude. | ||
| I felt the altitude, 14.5 or whatever it was, and it was painful on the way up. | ||
| And then we got caught on a storm on the top of the mountain, a bad storm. | ||
| Hail, downpour, and lightning hitting everywhere, all over the mountain. | ||
| We had to bomb down this mountain as fast as we could, and I trashed my quads, right? | ||
| And we're real close to the actual race at that point, right? | ||
| It's like a week and a half away. | ||
| And so then I got on a plane, flew to Providence, and I was panicking. | ||
| I was like, this is some serious shit I'm about to do, right? | ||
| And I started sweating. | ||
| I'd never had anxiety attacks before in my life, and I'm like, what the fuck are you thinking, dude? | ||
| This is some crazy stuff. | ||
| And so we were getting ready to go live, and Michael Chevello looks at me and he goes, why are you soaked? | ||
| I go, I'm fucking freaking out, dude. | ||
| I get to fly back to Colorado and go do this race. | ||
| I'm panicking, right? | ||
| And I never thought I'd be afraid of anything, but the course is that intimidating, right? | ||
| So Michael goes, dude, relax. | ||
| It's okay. | ||
| So we did the show, everything. | ||
| I got back there. | ||
| And when you're out there in the mountains, you start at 4 o'clock in the morning, and they're hardcore runners, man. | ||
| They're hardcore badasses. | ||
| If you looked at them on the street, you'd go, there's no way that person could run five miles. | ||
| They're just smiling for 100 miles. | ||
| They're just going, going, you know. | ||
| Do you know who Courtney DeWalter is? | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| I had her on. | ||
| She won the MOAB 240. By how many hours? | ||
| 20. She beat the 10 hours and 20 miles. | ||
| She beat the second place guy. | ||
| That's amazing. | ||
| Yeah, she's an animal. | ||
| Were there people that thought she cheated to do that? | ||
| Nope. | ||
| They knew her. | ||
| Everybody knew her. | ||
| She's an animal. | ||
| She won a race blind. | ||
| She was having some sort of retinal edema, so she couldn't see anything but her feet. | ||
| Her pacer had to tell her where to go and all that sort of stuff. | ||
| I don't think she had to pace her. | ||
| She tripped and fell and cracked her head open. | ||
| She went through the finish line bloody and blind. | ||
| And that's one of the toughest people you're ever going to meet. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And if you met her, completely unassuming, thin woman, real silly, drinks beer and eats nachos, not on some kind of crazy diet, eats candy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| She's real fun to hang out with, too. | ||
| She's very easy going. | ||
| That's like you meet Navy SEALs and you go, they're supposed to be tough, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| But I watched Navy SEALs fall apart last year when my brother was doing the race. | ||
| Like, just fall apart. | ||
| Just completely, yeah. | ||
| Well, if you're not physically prepared, too. | ||
| Well, you know, I know that some of them did the 50-miler out there, right? | ||
| So they were getting ready for it. | ||
| You know, you get dehydrated at any point, or caloric deficit, or all these different altitude problems that can come about, all the other stuff, you know, it's definitely a mental thing. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It's wild. | ||
| So fighting is, the way I look at it, the best way I can explain to you is fighting is so fucking easy. | ||
| In comparison. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, in reality, I mean, I was fighting, like when I fought Pele, when he was ranked second in the world and I was ranked first. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I didn't train for six weeks for that fight because I was crippled, right? | ||
| I was injured, low back, destroyed, all kinds of stuff. | ||
| I had 12 shots of xylocaine in my back to go out and fight. | ||
|
unidentified
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Jesus Christ. | |
| And he was the number two guy in the world at the time and very athletic. | ||
| He was a fucking killer at the time. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But he couldn't do shit to hurt me even when I was crippled. | ||
| He fell back for a leg lock on me and I laughed at him. | ||
| And he was like, well, that's not going to work, so let's get back. | ||
| Right? | ||
| But he was hanging on my head and I'm throwing uppercuts and body shots and he's plumbing me. | ||
| He ran up my body with knees. | ||
| Like that, you know, just a freak. | ||
| But fighting is that easy. | ||
| It's that simple to me. | ||
| Because you're trying to outwit and outsmart another human being. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Right? | ||
| When you're running for 50 miles, 75 miles, whatever, 100 miles, you're battling with yourself the entire time. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| That's where you get mind fucked. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| That's the scary part about it. | ||
| Because you've got to face yourself. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, it's a different thing. | ||
| When you're in the middle of a fight, especially a war, you're in the moment. | ||
| You're throwing bombs and ducking and getting hit and dealing with it and toughening it up. | ||
| You take a minute break, drink some water, hop right back out again for five minutes. | ||
| It's just a completely different animal. | ||
| Do you miss the old days of no time limits? | ||
| I had fun back in those days because I could go 100 miles an hour and gas people out and beat them, right? | ||
| Right, with conditioning. | ||
| I enjoyed that. | ||
| I did enjoy that. | ||
| But... | ||
| You know, it is. | ||
| It is what it is. | ||
| There were fights in tournaments that would go 45 minutes and just, you know, you can't cover that on TV. Right, right, right. | ||
| You just can't. | ||
| Like when you fought Dan. | ||
| Was that a no time limit? | ||
| Just a 30 minute, one round fight. | ||
| Yeah, that's crazy. | ||
| So it's just, it is what it is. | ||
| People would sit down and watch it live. | ||
| But they're not going to watch it on TV. Even the people that watch it live, they're going to get bummed out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| It's just not the best thing in terms of entertainment value. | ||
| No. | ||
| Not at all. | ||
| Not at all. | ||
| So it's, you know, the rounds, the rules, all that sort of stuff. | ||
| Give you a chance to look at some girls in bikinis in between rounds. | ||
| Walk around with the cards. | ||
| And, you know, I talked to John Peretti. | ||
| We had John Peretti on one of my podcasts, actually. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yeah? | |
| How's he doing? | ||
| He's got some health issues. | ||
| I know he's got MS and some other issues and stuff like that, but he wants people to know that he's the guy that did that. | ||
| He does. | ||
| He wants people to know, I'm the guy that friggin' created all that stuff. | ||
| He was the matchmaker at the time when I first started working for the UFC in 97. So it has been since 97 you were involved. | ||
| Yeah, I did UFC 12. That's awesome. | ||
| And I came in at 16, so you've been around longer than me. | ||
| That's awesome. | ||
| Yeah, I remember your debut. | ||
| I remember. | ||
| When I was... | ||
| I remember Mikey Burnett. | ||
| How's he doing? | ||
| He's doing, I think, okay. | ||
| I know he got shot, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| In a robbery? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| He was a good guy. | ||
| Tough motherfucker. | ||
| I remember when he fought Eugenio Tadeo. | ||
| And wrecked him. | ||
| Wrecked him. | ||
| When everybody thought that he was the next guy. | ||
| Eugenio was a psychopath that friggin went after Henzo and was kicking Henzo's ass and they shut the power down in the building so Henzo wouldn't lose. | ||
| Remember that? | ||
| Yes! | ||
| That was in Brazil, right? | ||
| That was craziness back then. | ||
| Yeah, but Burnett was... | ||
| Mikey Burnett was a guy who was a Greco national champ. | ||
| Benched 405, squatted 405, stronger than shit. | ||
| Tough as fuck. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The old days. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Fuck, man. | ||
| It's been so long. | ||
| It's really interesting when you stop and think about it. | ||
| How many thousands of fights have you called? | ||
| I've seen way too many people get fucked up. | ||
| I know that. | ||
| I'm real numb to watching people get beat up. | ||
| And that's the thing. | ||
| That's too... | ||
| I would say as my coaching career progressed as I got older, you know, when you're young and you're full of testosterone and you're a psychopath and you're coaching, it's just, ah, let's go do this. | ||
|
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Right, right. | |
| You know, and as I got older and mellowed out, I mean, I had to lay down on the floor of the locker room before the first Hughes-Trigg fight because I knew Trigg was a dangerous dude, just a tough son of a bitch and a good wrestler, right? | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| And I was really nervous for that fight. | ||
| I had to lay on my back and just decompress for 30 minutes before that fight just to go out and just coach with a calm mind. | ||
| When Hughes fought Carlos Newton after Carlos took the title from me, and Carlos comes out and we were infuriated because he's walking out with two Playboy bunnies and acting... | ||
| And it was, you know, it's a show, right? | ||
| It's a show. | ||
|
unidentified
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It's Hollywood. | |
| That was when that big ramp existed. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so Hughes is standing there, and I was all pumped up. | ||
| And I was like, Matt, you know, we had to get Matt off a tractor on the farm to come and fight him, right? | ||
| Because my automatic rematch clause got, they reneged on that and said, your choice, either Matt can fight him or somebody from another camp, but if Matt or somebody from another, if somebody from another camp fights him, you got the winner no matter what. | ||
| But if Matt fights him and loses, you can rematch Carlos. | ||
| But if Matt wins, obviously that's kind of tough because we're buddies, right? | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| So Matt's standing inside the cage and I'm pumped. | ||
| I'm absolutely pumped. | ||
| I go, you've got to smash this guy. | ||
| I'm screaming at him because you've got to fucking smash him. | ||
| And Matt turns around and he goes, it's going to be okay, dude. | ||
| It's going to be all right. | ||
| He goes, we got this, dude. | ||
| We got this. | ||
| And I was like, all right. | ||
| That was a crazy win, too. | ||
| That's when he slammed him. | ||
| Slammed him with a triangle. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The entire crowd, their mouths were hanging open. | ||
| They'd never seen anything like that. | ||
| Well, was he kind of half out? | ||
| He was out. | ||
| With a triangle? | ||
| He was out. | ||
| He was out with a triangle and he slammed him. | ||
| He knew he was going out and slammed him and then... | ||
| Went out. | ||
| Here's the thing. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| He jumped up and said, I won? | ||
| No, Matt sits up like this and he's kind of looking around. | ||
| And I dove over the cage and let my legs catch on one side so that I could barely touch Matt's head with my hand. | ||
| And I scraped his hair really fast. | ||
| I'm like, get up, get up, get up, get up. | ||
| I knew he was out. | ||
| So I go, get up, get up. | ||
| And he stands up and he goes, what happened? | ||
| And Jeremy goes, you just won. | ||
| He's like, fuck yeah. | ||
| Crazy. | ||
| That was cool. | ||
| That was a cool fight. | ||
|
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Yeah. | |
| Very intense. | ||
| Yeah, that was very intense. | ||
| Carlos Newton was one of the most technical jujitsu guys of his era. | ||
|
unidentified
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Oh, you're sick. | |
| Yeah, he was very great. | ||
| He was amazing. | ||
| Athletic dude. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| One of the best fights I've ever seen to this day was he and Dan Henderson. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| That was an insane fight. | ||
| Yeah, that was a great fight. | ||
| Those guys went back and forth. | ||
| That was 97, wasn't it? | ||
| 97 or now? | ||
| Possibly, yeah. | ||
| Somewhere in that area? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| That was one of my early days. | ||
| I remember when Chuck Liddell made his UFC debut. | ||
| I think he fought Noe Hernandez, and I'm pretty sure he was wearing wrestling shoes. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| Noe Hernandez trained with me for that fight. | ||
| Tough guy. | ||
| Noe got hurt before that fight. | ||
| I can't remember what he injured, but Noe couldn't train hard for that fight, so he wasn't in great shape, but he was knocking the shit out of Chuck until he ran out of gas. | ||
| I mean, he was boxing Chuck's ears off. | ||
| You know that fight, Peretti came to Chuck and told him, if you want to keep working and keep fighting for the UFC, do not take this guy down. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| Yeah, because they found out that Chuck was a wrestler. | ||
| Ah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Those are the dirty days. | ||
| That was Gary Shaw telling Petruzzelli and Shamrock type stuff, right? | ||
| Petruzzelli had to stand up with Kimbo because he replaced Shamrock. | ||
| I forgot about that guy. | ||
| One of the greatest interviews ever was Dana White after that. | ||
| Remember when he looks at the camera and he goes, you can't do that. | ||
| It's fucking illegal. | ||
| That's fucking illegal. | ||
| Yeah, it is fucking illegal. | ||
| That was the dumbest matchup too. | ||
| There's a video of me in the green room of the punchline in Atlanta, Georgia. | ||
| I had gotten off stage and I was waiting to see Ken Shamrock fight Kimbo. | ||
| And I was like, what a fight this is going to be. | ||
| I get off stage and they say, oh, Ken Shamrock got hurt warming up and Kimbo is now fighting Seth Petruzzelli. | ||
| And I go, oh, this is a terrible idea for Kim. | ||
| And I said it. | ||
| And I said to the camera, it's like the craziest thing ever. | ||
| I go, Seth Patricelli's going to fuck him up. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because we're assuming he's going to take him down and submit him. | ||
| And I thought he was going to KO him. | ||
| Did you? | ||
| Seth was a way better striker. | ||
| I thought Seth was just going to take him down. | ||
| I thought Seth is a karate striker, like a legit seasoned black belt. | ||
| And he could submit guys, but he was on another level as a mixed martial artist. | ||
| I was like, Kimbo's stiff. | ||
| So here's me, while this is happening. | ||
| If I'm wrong, you'll never see this. | ||
| To go to the beginning. | ||
| Hold on, where did it say at the beginning? | ||
| This is a last minute replacement. | ||
|
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I gotta think Seth Perez is always gonna fuck him up. | |
| If I'm wrong, you'll never see this. | ||
| So it happens in the green mode. | ||
| Literally, the fight is six seconds long. | ||
|
unidentified
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That's why they do this. | |
| Oh, save busy. | ||
| Look, give him a... | ||
| Well, uh-oh, yeah. | ||
| Oh! | ||
| Save America! | ||
| Oh my God, you're fucking right. | ||
| That's it. | ||
|
unidentified
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That's it! | |
| Yes! | ||
|
unidentified
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That's it! | |
| That was... | ||
| You look older there. | ||
| Well, the beard. | ||
| I had that full beard back then. | ||
| That was after Evan died. | ||
| When Evan Tanner died, we all grew beards. | ||
| That was a bad deal, man. | ||
| It was sad. | ||
| Very bad. | ||
| Yeah, that guy was... | ||
| He rolled out there into the desert on a mission, I think. | ||
| Might have. | ||
| I mean, maybe when he was out there, he decided to go that way, or maybe he just really did get lost and couldn't find his water, but that's one of the hottest places on earth. | ||
| I mean, it gets to the 130s and stuff out there. | ||
| Yeah, that was a bummer. | ||
| It was a bummer. | ||
| He was a great guy. | ||
| He was an interesting guy, too. | ||
| He was a guy that really wasn't into money. | ||
| I mean, he was into the journey. | ||
| He probably would have loved ultra-running. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| And he fought down... | ||
| What was the show in Texas that they were doing back then? | ||
| Because he cut his teeth in that circuit down there in Texas. | ||
| I can't remember what shows those were. | ||
| I don't remember. | ||
| He fought Texas Fighting Championship or something. | ||
| He was a tough motherfucker. | ||
| Remember when he fought Dave Terrell? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| I mean, Dave Terrell had him in a guillotine, he wouldn't tap, and then he started smashing him, and that's how he won the title. | ||
| Terrell was talented. | ||
| Fuck yeah, he was. | ||
| But he was mentally like he would fall apart, right? | ||
| Well, he did in that fight, or at least he gassed out. | ||
| Something happened in that fight, but yeah, that was the word is that his talent never matched up to his performances. | ||
| And as a jujitsu player, though, he was very, very successful. | ||
| Like, I saw him fight in Abu Dhabi. | ||
| He was a fucking phenom, man. | ||
| I mean, he was phenomenal. | ||
| And to this day, produces some of the best black belts. | ||
| Who's the best grappler on the planet now, you think? | ||
| That's a good question. | ||
| It's hard to tell. | ||
| I mean, it's probably Donaher's guys. | ||
| It's probably Gordon Ryan or maybe Gary Tonin or one of those guys. | ||
| But then there's a lot of really high-level jiu-jitsu guys. | ||
| See, the thing is, no one is caught up to Donaher's leg game. | ||
| There's a few guys. | ||
| There's Craig Jones out of Australia that's on a real high level. | ||
| There's a bunch of guys that are... | ||
| They're closing in, but it seems like what Donaher is doing, and Donaher is such a fucking wizard. | ||
| Right. | ||
| He's such a genius, and his application of his mind, you know, because Donaher is severely crippled. | ||
| He's got one fake hip, and they're going to replace one of his knees. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And he hurt his knee a long time ago from a rugby accident, and his knee was so loose and fucked up that they shortened his tendons and stitched them back together again, but they shortened him too much. | ||
|
unidentified
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Wow. | |
| He never could fully extend his leg, and he was fucked up from then on out, and then it caused a defect in his hip. | ||
| Wore it out then. | ||
| Yeah, it wore out his hip. | ||
| So he's severely injured, but his mind... | ||
| He's a genius. | ||
| Very, very, very intelligent guy. | ||
| Superior intellect. | ||
| And the way he's applied that thought process to jiu-jitsu is just incredibly unique. | ||
| And so those guys, Eddie Cummings, Nicky Ryan, Gordon Ryan, the Donaher Death Squad, what they call it. | ||
| I have to think that, at least in terms of accomplishments, I mean, that guy submitted Cyborg, Ricardo Abreu, I mean, fucking easy. | ||
| If you watch that fight, and I had John Donaher on the podcast break down what he did to Cyborg. | ||
| Cyborg's a multiple-time world champion, and Gordon Ryan went right through him, and Gordon Ryan's 22 years old. | ||
| I think, somewhere around that. | ||
| I look at great grapplers throughout history from back... | ||
| The early Gracies, you know, the Farmer Burns, all these scary dudes and stuff. | ||
| And as it moves forward in time and just watching guys, how they, it's almost like a constant cyclical. | ||
| There's a cycle there of you learn how to defend stuff. | ||
| You hit stuff. | ||
| People learn how to defend it and you move on. | ||
| And it's this constant cycle of it and then new shit coming out and creative stuff. | ||
| And I just watch it evolve and go, man, I just, I wish I could stay young forever just to have fun with it. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| With your body, yeah. | ||
| It's an unfortunate thing that your mind absorbs all these techniques and you understand how to compete better, but your body just gives out. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| And that's the thing with MMA especially. | ||
| I think it's a race to amass enough knowledge. | ||
| To win a title before the body gets out. | ||
| It just is. | ||
| Well, that's why TRT was so interesting. | ||
| Like the TRT Vitor days. | ||
| Because you had Vitor juiced to the tits. | ||
| And with all that experience. | ||
| I mean, Vitor made his UFC debut back when I called my first fight. | ||
| When I was a post-fight interviewer, rather. | ||
| In UFC 12. That was his debut at 19 years of age. | ||
| So here you have him at 37, juiced out of his fucking mind with muscles on his eyebrows. | ||
| I mean, he was so jacked when he fought Rockhold, when he fought Bisping. | ||
| I mean, clearly he was not just taking testosterone replacement therapy. | ||
| He was juiced up. | ||
| I mean, he was way above normal levels. | ||
| I remember UFC Brazil. | ||
| I was fighting... | ||
| Vanderlei and Vitor were fighting each other. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Right? | ||
| And you knew that was a collision. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| That was two scary dudes. | ||
| Vitor wore shoes for that fight. | ||
| But here's the crazy thing. | ||
| I'm in my locker room. | ||
| I'm getting ready to fight. | ||
| And one of Vitor's trainers comes in. | ||
| Vitor sent them to get me to come give him a pep talk. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| That was the fight when he had hid for like three days. | ||
| Because he was terrified. | ||
| Vanderlei was so scary back then. | ||
| He was having just this, I think, a mental breakdown. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| An anxiety attack about fighting Vanderlei Silva. | ||
| So he's in his locker room, and he's sitting in the corner, and he's like, with his eyes big, he's scared to death. | ||
| And I walked in there, and I'm like, dude, fucking we're fighting for world titles. | ||
| What are you doing? | ||
| What is wrong with you? | ||
| Let's fucking go. | ||
| Let's fucking kill these guys. | ||
| Got him all pumped up. | ||
| And he's like, all right, all right. | ||
| Well, he had gotten beaten down by Randy before that. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| That fight took a lot out of him. | ||
| He wasn't the same guy for a long time after that fight. | ||
| The most brutal fight I've ever seen in my life that was Omri Batesh and Don Frye. | ||
| I remember that. | ||
| In Kobo Arena in Detroit. | ||
| Don was way too big. | ||
| It was... | ||
| Way too strong. | ||
| It was horrifying because Omri had shot on him and... | ||
| Don Frye's walking his feet up the cage and dropping knees straight down on the back of Omri's head when those were legal. | ||
| And the entire crowd is roaring. | ||
| Kobo Arena's packed. | ||
| They're going nuts. | ||
| And all you can hear over the top of everything is Omri's girlfriend screaming bloody murder. | ||
| Like someone was being slaughtered in front of her. | ||
| Which they were, right? | ||
| And then you've got Esvaldo Alves, who's an encyclopedia of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. | ||
| Amazing guy. | ||
| And Alan Goez. | ||
| And Alan Goez, I had been up there all week to help Omri get ready for the fight, right? | ||
| And Alan Goez shows up the day of the fight, the night of the fight, walks into the locker room and goes, what's your name? | ||
| And I go, Pat. | ||
| And he goes, here's a camera. | ||
| Take fucking pictures. | ||
| That's the way Alan treated me when we first met, right? | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So I'm watching... | ||
| Omri get mauled, just completely slaughtered. | ||
| And these guys won't throw in the towel. | ||
| And I'm going, you got to throw in the towel. | ||
| This ain't changing. | ||
| This is stupid. | ||
| This is stupid. | ||
| And John had stopped the fight. | ||
| McCarthy pulled him over. | ||
| And he goes, do you want to continue? | ||
| All Omri knew in English was more. | ||
| More. | ||
| And he's like, alright, we're going again. | ||
| And he gets slaughtered some more, pulling back off. | ||
| More, more, sending back out. | ||
| And finally John's like, we're going to have a fatality here. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| So that was a horrifying fight. | ||
| That was the most brutal fight I've ever seen. | ||
| Yeah, there's been a few of those over the years. | ||
| It's been a few of those. | ||
| Well, listen, Pat, we just did three hours. | ||
| Three hours plus. | ||
| Holy cow. | ||
| Time flies by, man. | ||
| I'm glad we finally did this. | ||
| I'm surprised my attention span lasted this long. | ||
| Your attention span's on point, man. | ||
| It's all that ultra-marathon running. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| We gotta do this again, man. | ||
| Yeah, I'd love to. | ||
| And please, everybody, check out The Conspiracy Farm. | ||
| Is it on iTunes? | ||
| It's on everything? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And if they go to chemicalfreebody.com, you would love that stuff. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Chemicalfreebody.com. | ||
| It's all vegan products, sprouted greens, all kinds. | ||
| I mean, the guy is gold. | ||
| Is that your company or something? | ||
| A good friend of mine, Tim James, who's saving people's lives from cancer to all kinds of shit. | ||
| He is healing people. | ||
| Veterans with all kinds of open wounds from chemical stuff. | ||
| Are you still doing lion fight commentary? | ||
| Lion Fight, we no longer cover them. | ||
| We cover CES and LFA right now. | ||
| And you're in town for that, right? | ||
| What is the event? | ||
| Is it on AXS? AXS TV, Friday night, yeah. | ||
| Mark Cuban's network. | ||
| We're going to have a blast. | ||
| It's going to be great fights, title fights. | ||
| There's some great fights. | ||
| Beautiful. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Pat Miletic, ladies and gentlemen. | ||
| Thank you, brother. | ||
| Appreciate it, man. |
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