Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano - INTEL Roundtable w/ Johnson & McGovern : Weekly Wrap 19-Sept

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Sept. 18, 2025 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano

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INTEL Roundtable w/ Johnson & McGovern : Weekly Wrap 19-Sept

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	Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for a judging freedom.
	Today is Friday, September 19th, 2025.
	It's the end of the day, the end of the week, our favorite time.
	It's the intelligence community round table with Ray McGovern and Larry Johnson.
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	Gentlemen, welcome here.
	Always a pleasure, of course.
	Not just because it's our favorite time of the day, Friday afternoon here on the East Coast of the United States, but it's uh it's a professional and personal pleasure for me to be able to work with you yet again uh this week.
	You both have been traveling, and I'm deeply grateful for your accommodating uh my schedule.
	Uh I need to start a little bit on the um aftermath of the murder of Charlie Kirk.
	Ray, why do you think Benjamin Netanyahu has twice taken to international forums to deny that the Israelis were behind the murder of Kirk?
	Well, and one guess uh judge would be out of Shakespeare, may thinks he doth protest too much.
	Uh there's all kinds of circumstantial evidence that Charlie was turning against uh the slaughter in Gaza and other things.
	And so uh, you know, uh this would be really really bad if it came out that the Israelis had a hand in this, as they have had a hand in many other assassination attempts, many of them successful.
	So yeah, I think they're just protesting too much.
	And it's a little awkward, you know.
	You should know that when one protests too much, one smells a little suspicion.
	Yeah.
	Larry, have the um Israelis ever assassinated anybody in the U.S. or an American outside the U.S.?
	As far as we know, we're talking not the USS Liberty, but a targeted specific assassination.
	John F. Kennedy, President Kennedy.
	Uh, there is substantial circumstantial evidence implicating Israel in that, along with James Jesus Angleton at the CIA.
	And uh Char uh Meyer Lansky, who was part of uh organized crime that involved both Italians and and and Jews.
	So yeah, it's happened before.
	Um that that's why you know is there any clear evidence now of their involvement with this?
	No, but what there is clear evidence of, and let's be precise about this.
	Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly, Candace Owens, and Candace is very close with Charlie, despite attempts by the Zionist lobby to smear her as somebody that Charlie would have no time of the day for, claiming that she'd hadn't spoken for talking turning point USA at all, even though she went on a c college campus tour with Charlie last year.
	What what's coming out is this Zionist organization, it's not just the Jewish Zionists, it's the Christian Zionists as well.
	We're putting enormous pressure on Charlie.
	They didn't want him to let Megan Kelly and Tucker Carlson speak at the July 13th event.
	And worse off, it's Charlie entertained a debate with Dave Smith, who's Jewish but very anti-Zionist against uh Josh Hammer, who's a reporter and a Zionist that works with Newsweek.
	So that there is uh documente proof that there was a meeting at the home uh Bill Ackman of Pershing Square.
	Uh looks like it was August 5th, and Charlie spoke out the next day after that with Megan Kelly.
	Hell he was being accused of being an anti-Semite, as was so Mac Max sublimatal has reported that at that meeting, Charlie was offered 150 million dollars to fund and expand turning point USA if he were to be uh pro-BB and he turned it down, and they were not happy.
	Yeah, yeah, no, yeah.
	I mean, and so that the what it the attempt of this Zionist lobby to insert themselves into this, and then to claim, oh, yeah, Charlie was our great friend.
	Yeah, Charlie stood for everything that we stand for.
	And what we're beginning to learn is in fact, Charlie Kirk was while he had strong convictions, he was also willing to keep an open mind and listen, and he was beginning to make a turn to recognize that the genocide that's underway in Gaza is wrong, it's evil.
	Ray, forgive me if this sounds neah naive.
	Does the CIA participate in these assassinations the way Mossad does?
	Uh not to my knowledge.
	Uh, it used to.
	Uh, actually, John Kennedy was the victim of lots of these assassinations going back to the African leaders who were assassinated by CIA.
	But then there were certain strictures.
	Um, you know, let's not exaggerate it.
	It was okay to torture him, okay.
	You could torture him, but I don't know really of any uh any CIA uh originated uh assassinations of this kind, certainly not in this country.
	I would say a word about uh the Hamptons.
	Uh I know this crowd in the Hamptons.
	Uh that was Bridge Hampton, and I used to summer in the Hamptons too, because I was a caddy, and I made a lot of money from these very wealthy people.
	Okay.
	Is this before you were in the agency, or were you undercover as a caddy?
	I couldn't that would have been a that would have been good cover, but no, I was young high school.
	I paid for my tuition in high school and college, and you know, I was ready to get married when I got out of college because I made a lot of money from these people.
	All I'm saying is this is the upper crust, uh, defined by my grandmother as a bunch of crumbs held together with a lot of dough.
	The upper crust.
	Uh, here's Larry, this is just what you're talking about.
	This is Charlie Kirk with Megan Kelly the day after this meeting at Ackman's in the Hampton, a month to the day before he was murdered.
	Chris number 12.
	Megan, you're hitting on something very potent and important.
	The people that are attacking me are in a hyper paranoid state because they're at war, and war tends to make things black and white, and you're a hammer looking for a nail.
	I have less ability sometimes online to criticize the Israeli government about backlash than actual Israelis do.
	Personality types like you, myself and Tucker, the more that you guys privately and publicly call our character into question when the hostile reaction is that now Megan and Charlie are enemies.
	Right.
	Boy, I'll tell you, like you're you're you're you're you're gonna you're not gonna I won't say lose, but you will weaken and just basically deflate two of your strongest advocates if that continues.
	Yeah, George, let me point out that it was just a week after that that he took the took out after the big after the deep state uh on Tucker Carlson.
	He went into Russia gate and he talked he he uh he evidenced uh a unique grasp of all these hairy details that we've been inducing for a long time, but he had them all there and he said, Look, these guys, these guys are not to be trusted.
	Uh we're gonna have to hold them to account for what they did to President Trump the first uh the first term.
	Now, as you know, I I don't hold any brief for President Trump, but I don't like people uh trying to affect elections rather than trying to nullify, okay?
	So the last thing is that you know if it were Mossad, and going back to your question, does the CIA uh assassinate people?
	Well, no, but the FBI does.
	And I think the FBI arranged for the assassination of Seth Rich.
	And that's why nobody can mention Seth Rich without uh uh incredibly spontaneous allergic reaction saying you're a conspiracy theory.
	Uh Kash Patel has the evidence on this, the FBI does too, where they'll have the guts to surface it and see who who exactly did in Seth Rich because of his employment and the DNC and the release of those DNC emails so prejudicial to Hillary Clinton.
	Well, we'll have to see about this.
	So I would correct my my former statement.
	CI really doesn't do this, but when the FBI has to do it, well, they work very closely, not only together, but with Mossad.
	So this is all circumstantial.
	Larry is quite right.
	We don't have any hard evidence, but my God, you know, uh, we have lots of uh pretty circumstantial evidence.
	Uh moving over to Israel and Gaza, Larry, is there now a serious public rift between Netanyahu and his generals who are adamant that there's going to be no quick invasion and takeover of Gaza, notwithstanding the promises Netanyahu made to Trump and to the Israeli public.
	The rest's been reported, but uh, in spite of that rift, uh, the Israelis launched the Garand operation on Monday.
	Now, what's important about that is on Monday in Doha, you had the Arab Islamic summit come together, and this was uh really remarkable in that it attracted 54 uh different countries.
	Uh, and you had you know, if you wanted to see a cats and dogs living together, this was it.
	Uh, because here you had Pajeskin, the president of Iran sitting down with uh Al-Sisi, president of Egypt, and they agreed to reopen diplomatic relations that have been shuttered for 34 years.
	You had Peskin with Al-Shara, the newly in Western installed terrorist president of Syria, who two years ago in his position is command as al-Jalani commander of Hayatarir al-Shem, was attacking Iranian forces, and here they were at a summit agreeing that the United States and or that Israel in particular had violated the sovereignty uh of Qatar.
	Um, you had Turkey there, you had uh the Azaris were there, King of Abdullah of Jordan was there.
	So this this represented uh they they came together to say number one, uh Israel, we ought to consider tossing Israel out at the United Nations.
	So that's on the table.
	But they they reaffirmed their support, and like in the aftermath of this, this is what is so significant.
	Saudi Arabia signed a mutual defense pact with Pakistan, Pakistan guarantees Saudi Arabia's uh uh security with nuclear weapons.
	Ooh.
	So yeah, well, heck of a job there, Donald Trump with uh BB Netanyahu.
	What they've done is now united uh the Arab Islamic world in a way that they haven't been heretofore.
	Now, it doesn't mean that they're gonna all take the kind of action that could be taken to shut down the genocide, but it but it's moving in that direction.
	And one last point within this, you had Iran offering, they signed an agreement on in Cairo uh a week ago with uh uh the IAEA and Grossi.
	And so Grossi and Arachi, the foreign minister of Iran signed it.
	It was called the Cairo Agreement.
	And at the time I thought, you know, that's crazy.
	Why why is a who would trust Grossi?
	He's practically a Mossad agent.
	Yeah, exactly.
	But now we learn why, because today Russia, China, Pakistan, and Algeria introduced uh a motion, uh an amendment, a resolution at the Security Council that the POA, the lifting of sanctions with Iran would stay in place.
	That was rejected by the United States and its three European lackeys and then some other people on the council.
	And so as a result, the snapback sanctions are in place.
	All of the sanctions that were in place on Iran before have now snapped back in, but with this difference, China and Russia announced we view this action as illegal and invalid, and we're gonna continue doing business with Iran no matter what.
	You know, they might as well have gone bahu, huh?
	Gets to the conversation we were having before the camera came on.
	Ray, um I thought that there'd be no harsh reaction to Doha that the Arab countries would be terrified of the United States, and I'm I'm happy that I'm wrong, but none of this is going to stop Netanyahu.
	I mean, we learned this afternoon that last week the Israelis uh bombed a building in Yemen that killed 31 journalists, not Hamas, not killers, not terrorists, journalists.
	Journalists, yeah.
	So yeah, well, that's what this meeting last night was all about, giving appropriate uh tribute to those journalists and a very poignant representative of the electronic antifada spoke beautifully and asked for a moment a whole minute of silence.
	She got it.
	You could hear a pin drop.
	Yeah, it's it's the journalists that are taking taking it on the chin.
	Now, one thing with respect to Netanyahu, I would just like to remind people, everyone you guys know this, but it all depends on Trump.
	Okay, right.
	But without Trump, Netanyahu is nothing.
	So these generals who the New York Times says are very upset with with uh with Netanyahu.
	All Trump has to do is send Whitkoff to talk to uh the generals or talk to the people there on Tel Aviv or West Jerusalem and say, you know, I think it's uh this fellow is really too rabid, uh you know, and and I think the the Israeli military might just uh decide to move against Netanyahu if they got other people in the cabinet to support them.
	Netanyahu is uh he's so uh he so ostensibly he is so clearly in this for himself to avoid going to prison.
	And the real threat, in my view, is that if he attacks Iran again, and if Trump joins them, uh we're gonna have uh uh a disastrous defeat for Israel, and Netanyahu is going to resort to nuclear weapons, given the fact that you know his record is he can do genocide, he can do forced starvation, he can do all these other things, assassination.
	Who who will argue that he would not use nuclear weapons in extremists?
	Would the Pakistanis threaten nuclear weapons against Israel, Larry, if Netanyahu began to use them against Iran?
	Yeah, no, I think I think I think it's a realistic uh possibility, uh dangerous and horrific possibility.
	Yes.
	Um, so the the the movement of notice that also Pakistan now announced that it's applying for membership in BRICS.
	So again, you've had this tension between Pakistan and India.
	Now BRICS is becoming an umbrella that's bringing these countries together in mutually beneficial economic pursuits, which is uh you know uh a nice way to get them out of uh a war mood uh and uh so again what what this is signals is the tremendous erosion of u.s influence uh around the world where uh in the past you know we were sort of like that e.f hutton commercial when e.f.
	Hutton speaks, everybody listens.
	Now, they're actually ignoring Trump, and Trump's not helping himself.
	I mean, did you see him the other day in England?
	He talked about, hey, I settled that war between Azerbaijan and Albania.
	And everybody's going, Albania?
	I think that was Armenia.
	Oh, I knew that.
	It all ends with IA, you know.
	Ray, um,
	Colonel McGregor uh reports from sources in Poland uh that he says they're reliable the 10,000 Polish troops dressed in Ukrainian military uniform were killed in Ukraine in battle can this be true well I think it is true if Colonel McGregor says it his record is uh pretty impeccable on these things um you know it's uh must
	Tell you something about the Polish government, though.
	Well, about Tusk, okay?
	Not the new chief, but Tusk.
	What is he, the president or something?
	He's rabidly anti-Russian.
	You have the Russophobia stoked in Poland, but the new crowd coming in there is less Russophobic, in my view, but Tusk is irredeemable.
	And so you have him and the Ukrainians trying to patch together something that cannot be patched together.
	And in addition to that, perhaps we should talk about the latest from the Trump special envoy on Ukraine, Keith Kellogg, a general, third-star general, who says, I was talking in the Oval Office to these guys, and they were talking about military, the Russian military, and they would say, well, they are pretty good.
	And I told them we could kick their ass.
	And they said, they said, but Russia has nuclear weapons.
	And I said, we have nuclear weapons, too.
	That is the level of puerile, a sophomoric attitude by General Kellogg, who continues to speak out these things, continues to say, look, Ukraine has won.
	Russians are in the back foot.
	You know, he just came from, well, he was in Ukraine.
	So where did he get that information?
	The same way that Bill Burns got the information to you.
	years ago we're winning Ukraine's winning please Mr. President believe us you uh Zelensky just told me they're winning so the Russians are I mean that's the kind of stuff that uh Trump is getting from the win end luckily he's got Whitkov and a couple of sensible people I don't know their names but they've been enough to say look continue to deal with Putin because he seems at least open and serious to do a deal if you're willing.
	Larry Ray is a hundred percent correct the danger here is that Kelly and I wasn't going to play the tape we're sick of it but now I'm gonna play it again torture torture because this is the the crap that gets whispered into Trump's ear Chris General Kellogg.
	If he was winning he'd be in Kyiv if he's winning he'd be west of the Nepa River if he's winning he'd be in Odessa if he's winning it would have changed the government Russia is in fact losing this war.
	Now they may they may make movements and see while they're advancing uh in the Donbass region in the desk but if you consider advancing moving by meters not miles well then okay that's successful but if the cost that are having it's enormous and I don't think people truly appreciate it's a number but the numbers they have lost when you're talking dead and wounded well over a million they left Afghanistan after losing 18,000 we left Vietnam after losing 65000.
	They've lost over a million dead or wounded these numbers are world war two level numbers when you have when you think about it they're they're stunning in in the loss and this is in and their first line units that they came and tried to take Kiev with a little four years ago those first line units are gone.
	So they've gone through a second or third or fourth iteration of wartime commanders they're pulling tanks out of mothballs out of museums put on the battle line.
	They can't operate in large movements because the Ukrainians will kill them.
	McGregor was ready to throw up when he heard that, particularly the nonsense about tanks out of mothballs and museums, Larry.
	And I'm sorry to play this for you again, but Ray Ray characterized it so beautifully that I had to subject you to it one last time.
	We'll get rid of it after today.
	Well, well, he's lying.
	So let's start with January 24th of this year, when the Russia and the Ukraine are exchanging bodies.
	Russia gave the Ukrainians 757.
	The Ukrainians gave the Russians 49%.
	A week later, or in February, again, 757 from Russia, 45 from Ukraine, 909 in March, 909 in April, 909 in May, and Russia was always receiving fewer than 50 dead.
	Uh most recently, September 18th, 1,000 dead Ukrainians, Russia received 24.
	Now, August 19th, 1,000 dead Ukrainians.
	Russia received 19.
	Oh, July 17th, 1,000 dead Ukrainians.
	Russia's got 17.
	And reportedly Russia's got 40,000 cadavers in storage on ice, uh, waiting to turn them over to Ukraine.
	So I mean, the horrific numbers, not Russia, it's Ukraine.
	And you know, what's so funny about this is when you present these numbers, people like Kellogg will go, well, yeah, see, Ukraine didn't have time to pick up the bodies because the Russians were moving forward so fast.
	And you go, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second.
	You just told me that they were moving very slow.
	Now you're saying they're moving so fast, they don't have time to recover the bodies.
	Which isn't, you know, pick one story, stick with it.
	But the reality is, uh, we know from General Sirsky of the Ukrainians, Russia enjoys a minimum of a three to one troop advantage today compared to four years ago or February 2022, when Russia had 125,000 troops in in the uh Donbas, and Ukraine had about 600,000.
	So the numbers have reversed, and then just today uh Putin announced the U.S. uh the Russian force strength, 700,000.
	Wow.
	Ray um had a uh massive war games demon demonstration between Belarus and Russia.
	President Putin presided in full military garb.
	Is there any significance to that?
	Yes, there is.
	He has done this on one occasion that I can recall in the past, about a year ago now.
	But uh he is commander-in-chief, and every now and then he wants to make it very, very clear that he can uh order the Russian forces to do whatever he wants.
	This Bielousov, the uh uh defense minister next to him.
	Now, you know, uh, I'm thinking that with respect to Kellogg, you know, he served in Vietnam, okay?
	And so he learned uh how you get ahead, and of course, General West Morland lied through his teeth about how many uh Viet Cong had been killed, and how few Americans so he learned that lesson really well.
	A truth doesn't mean much to these people.
	If Kellogg wanted to find out the truth, he could go there and talk to people like Sirski, not Zelensky, and Sirsky would tell them, as Larry just said, Oh, without numbers three to one, and it's going not really well.
	Okay, so I don't know about Kellogg.
	I can't figure this thing out, but it's it's part and parcel of not of what not only the military, but the CIA has been feeding President Biden, President Trump.
	Uh Putin has already lost July, two years ago.
	Uh Putin's army has been ridiculed, has been shown to be inept before the whole world.
	Bill Burns and Joe Biden, July, two th two years ago.
	Uh December the first, the first year, The head of national intelligence.
	Oh, we're beating the Russians.
	They cannot even replace the armaments that they're leaving on the battlefield.
	They have no indigenous capability to do this.
	We've won.
	That was December 2022.
	Where do these guys come from?
	And where are the honest people?
	Does Trump have any honest people besides smart people like Whittuft?
	I don't know.
	But they're still around, and they're telling telling Kellogg and others what to say.
	It's crazy.
	You know, Larry, I may have asked you.
	This may be the first question I asked the two of you four years ago when we started.
	This October will be four years.
	Hard to believe.
	Wow.
	What value is intel if it's untrue, Larry Johnson?
	Oh, it's a great scapegoat to have around.
	So you know, right?
	I'm sure right.
	I know Ray's had the same experience I've had.
	Uh, when you tell the truth, the uncomfortable truths that the white house doesn't want to hear, they ignore you.
	Um, if you haven't told them those uncomfortable truths, because you know that it creates a problem, and then something bad happens, they blame you.
	Um, but uh, you know, never very, very rare is the situation in which the the political types come back and say, okay, tell us truly what's going on.
	What is what's the bottom line here?
	What what can we do?
	What should we do?
	That's very rare.
	So you know, let's just call it uh a jobs program for smart people who don't want to be entrepreneurs.
	Ray on truth telling and intel.
	Can you add to anything that Larry just said?
	Yeah, uh, you you did this.
	You you were the person who presented this information uh to the White House.
	Did they try and get you to tailor it to please the person you were speaking to?
	No, we we were the left of the of the lot that could tell the truth.
	It was a matter of look.
	Uh I had come back from overseas short of tour.
	Uh long story short, I took a position as a briefer of of uh defense secretary weinberger because we needed somebody to brief him on Saturday.
	Eventually, I started to brief the Secretary of State Schultz, vice president H.W. Bush, and when Reagan was awake that early, the president.
	Okay.
	Now, I was not beholden to anyone.
	I will say this for Bill Casey.
	It's the only good thing I'll say about him, he didn't review what we were going to tell the president.
	And on occasion, I would write something in the middle of the night and tell the president something about Bill Casey's best friends in so maybe the Philippines, and he would get like this, you know, then I which would see him at 1115 after we briefed, right?
	Who wrote that?
	I did the and then they'd say, Well, and I'd say, I'm sorry.
	What did you say?
	Because you couldn't understand the guy.
	My supervisors would, you know, you there'd be puddles on the floor, they wouldn't say anything.
	They would say, What did you say, Mr. King?
	Anyhow, he says, Well, who wrote there?
	Where'd you write that?
	Luckily, John McMahon, the head of the intelligence, told me what was going to happen.
	So I brought the source.
	And I said, Because this, because it's firsthand information.
	That's why we told the president about your friends.
	Wow.
	It doesn't seem to be uh truth telling today.
	If if the type of message that we just watched from uh General Kellogg, uh is what Ratcliffe and and Gabbard and the others are telling the president.
	Is it any wonder that we're still supporting Ukraine?
	Yeah, guys, thank you very much.
	Thanks for letting me go uh across the board from Charlie Kirk to Truth Telling and the CIA and uh and everything in between.
	We'll look forward to seeing you both on Monday.
	Thanks for the double duty.
	Have a great weekend.
	Thank you.
	Have a great week.
	Thank you.
	Monday, and an interesting day for us.
	Uh Alistair Crook, of course, Ray McGovern, of course, Larry Johnson, of course, and Harrison Berger, a new guest, an investigative journalist who will tell you how American high tech is helping the Israelis slaughter innocents in Gaza and how that will reverberate against your own civil liberties, our own civil liberties here at home.

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