Katherine Horton and Bill Binney dissect alleged deep state conspiracies, including CIA raids on Tulsi Gabbard's office and claims that Sirhan Sirhan was hypnotized by a CIA psychiatrist. They analyze geopolitical tensions in Iran, arguing Russia and China lack incentives to prop up the regime despite its missile capabilities, while fearing Rothschild-Vatican cabals profit from conflict. Ultimately, they suggest Trump's China trip aims to end proxy wars through a global deal, challenging narratives of inevitable World War III. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Welcome to Real Deal Special00:08:57
Welcome to another Real Deal special in my series with Catherine Horton and Bill Binney Under Fire.
And tonight, once again, here, the 13th of May, 2026, I have the pleasure of Catherine Horton's company.
How's Bill, by the way, Catherine?
Is he okay?
He's okay, but he's being tortured.
It's currently ongoing.
So they are seesawing us.
So I spent two days completely debilitated with pain in bed, and Bill was looking after me.
Then they stopped my torture and now they started working on Bill.
So nasty.
It is.
It is psychopathic.
It's like we are in the final stages.
By the way, hot off the press, just before coming live, I saw that, what's her name?
Paulina Luna, Representative Paulina Luna.
She was saying that the CIA went into DNI Tulsi Gabbard's office and just took boxes with documents and evidence from the JFK files.
And what are there's what two oh, uh, MK Ultra MK Ultra and the JFK files, and they just took it from her office, even though there's an executive order to declassify.
So, we are in the final stages of deep capture where the intelligence agencies are running amok and openly criminal, openly disregarding societal rules.
You're telling me that Representative Luna, who's actually been very good about exposing things, she sent her people to get this stuff from Tulsi's office.
She was publicly, I think she was talking to one of the mainstream media.
She was giving an interview and just saying, hot off the press.
By the way, the CIA just went into DNI Tulsi Gabbard's office and took these boxes.
So I just got to know about 15 minutes before we went live on True Social.
They took them out of Tulsi's office without Tulsi's permission and in violation of the law.
Exactly.
I can even find the post and show them.
Unbelievable.
Yes, this is just disgraceful.
It is.
And she was saying that there was an executive order.
Oh, here it is.
It was posted by Citizen Free Press today, May 13th, at 6 28 p.m.
So this video is being recorded May 13th.
It's probably going to be published May 14th.
But this was hot off the press as we're talking.
It was about an hour ago, just about an hour ago.
So if you share the screen, allow me to share the screen.
It's like a one minute clip, but it's quite telling, actually.
Yeah, let me do that.
And let me just.
I'll make you the host.
Make me the host, and I will.
There we go.
There we go.
I've got a share button.
So this is, I think it's this one here.
I think it should still record, even when I made you a host.
I found there was one way of doing it that didn't record, it was just black because it wasn't I doing it.
Okay, go right ahead.
So you can see it, right?
I hope that the live stream can see it.
I can see it.
I can see it.
Now I hope it will also continue recording when I make this big.
Hang on, let me, let's see, can you see this full screen?
Yep, yep, go ahead, put it full screen.
There you go.
Okay, great.
Okay, so this much works.
So here it is, and I'll try to adjust the volume.
Some news coming out of the CIA that you'd like to share.
Yeah, so we were actually just notified that the CIA went in and took documents out of ODNI.
Multiple boxes pertaining to the JFK files as well as MKUltra.
The reason why this is troubling is A, there was an executive order that the president had directed the full declassification of JFK, but then also to the MKUltra files.
The CIA famously has said that, you know, all documents were released and other documents had been destroyed.
So these are allegedly those documents that apparently never existed.
And so very troubling.
I did just talk to Chairman Comer, and we are sending in the next hour or so a preservation of documents request to the CIA.
I have called into the White House to the director of the CIA himself.
And so obviously, As this develops, we'll keep everyone up to date.
But strange times we're living in.
There you go.
I hope you could hear it.
Was that all?
Yeah, I could hear it all.
I could hear it all.
So that's what's happening.
And she says, We're living in strange times.
Absolutely.
But it's very well defined in systems analysis.
This is the final stage of deep capture where it's overt.
They don't even care that we know that they know that we know.
Yeah.
These almost certainly are the files of George Joannidis, who was a psyop.
Guy for both JFK and RFK.
And these are the most closely held files that Tulsi apparently had in her office.
But for them to go right in there and blatantly steal them like that, this is outrageous.
Actually, what I would recommend, which is what the Trump administration and the DOJ just, I mean, they are studiously missing a trick here, which is when people go in, you can charge the individual agents.
For this crime, because it's not even if there's an executive order, then the agency of the CIA has to comply with the executive order.
So it is almost like these CIA agents went on private initiative, which is kind of true because they have been hired through a secret society or through secret deep state back channels.
So they are acting in private capacity.
And it means, given that you can't go into the DNI's office without your little face being on camera, they can pick out who exactly walked in, took those boxes, and have them up in court tomorrow.
Just look at how hot the contents have to be to do something as brazen as this.
Right, yeah.
But it's time that there's personal private liability attached to this because the same is also true of the FBI agent who washed down the AGR roof in Butler.
People hate it when I go back all the way to 24, but it's important because the same network is still at work here.
The guy who washed down the roof, his little face is on camera.
There are, you know, there's traces of who in the FBI gave the order.
To remove any traces of DNA.
Exactly.
Yes, quite right.
And it matches with the removal of DNA from the crook's house because it was bleached like a hospital.
It matches also with the destruction of the body, which was cremated before the pathologist report even came out.
So, yes, of course.
I mean, we know they didn't want the DNA to show that the parents are not the parents of the guy on the roof.
But anyway, so, but again, if you want to force, coerce a proper investigation, you would start with that F. FBI agent because he for sure is on the books.
You know who he is because he has a 401k with the agency.
So, you know, you can, if the Trump administration sat down and worked professionally, systematically, crossed their T's and dotted their I's, they could really make a lot of progress against the deep state.
Because even though the deep state is massive and sprawling laterally, vertically, it's not that high.
It's only so many hops before you get to Comey and Brennan and all the other criminals, right?
So going up, Along the who the hell told you to do this, right?
You very quickly, after a few hops, end up with Mr. Big, right?
With Mr. Global or Mr. Secret Society.
But this sort of investigative work, which is what the agencies and the DOJ should be doing, is just carefully being kind of ignored.
And that's the first thing you would do if you would do a RICO investigation or an organized crime investigation.
You would first try to map out the top and then work back down along the chains of command again.
What is Tulsi saying about this?
I'm not sure if she even had the time.
It could be that Representative Paulina Luna had already an interview queued up and she broke the news.
But we have to wait and see.
I'm sure she will say something within 24 hours.
But also note that this shit's going down just when Trump landed in China this morning.
So Trump is as far away as he possibly could be on the globe from all this stuff going down.
But don't you imagine it was nevertheless done in coordination?
Not with Trump.
I don't think it, because Trump signed the executive order to declassify this, you know?
And it's also Trump who's whacking.
Tulsi's Reaction to Luna News00:14:56
Trump certainly didn't have anything to do with whacking JFK.
So we can say that with confidence.
Exactly.
And also, I think this whole thing is being wound up because don't forget that JFK is what?
I think it's his nephew, RFK Jr., right?
Because the other Kennedy who got assassinated, or was that his son?
I have to map the whole thing, but, you know, it's the Kennedy family.
Secretary Kennedy, his dad was murdered.
And that's another thing that Roger Stone published an article about last night about how RFK Sr. was murdered.
And again, I found just Masonic cartel signaling plastered all over that.
So the Roger Stone article was about RFK Jr., going through the forensic files and coming to the conclusion that the guy who was the Patsy truly was a Patsy and he couldn't have shot his dad.
Because he stood in front of his father, where his father was shot from the back.
But one of the things I picked out, just as a footnote, because it was just published last night by Roger Stone, is that there was a woman in a polka dot dress who ran around ostentatiously shouting, We shot him, we shot him, okay?
So, but as soon as I heard polka dot dress, I thought, It's not by any chance a white dress with black dots on it, you know, Masonic tiling.
As opposed to could it have been a red dress with white, you know, dots, but no.
And I searched, and sure enough, that was the dress a white dress with black dots.
That is a nod towards Masonic tiling.
And that's why she was running around shouting, We shot him, we shot him, because we is the Masons.
All right.
Once you put it all together, there's always some sort of signature in every assassination when they do it.
It's either the crown or Masonic black and white tiling.
And there we are.
So, yes, the woman was the handler and I would say the coordinator on the day, maybe also the final All Systems Go sign for the security guard who shot RFK.
But she, sure enough, in the end, was giving the cartel signaling, the signature that would be so ostentatious, it would be inscribed in history, if you know what I mean.
Right.
Sirhan had been hypnotized by a psychiatrist who boasted about doing it for the CIA.
And I believe the girl in the polka dot dress was the signal for him to start shooting.
As you observe, he was in front of RFK.
He was actually shot behind the right ear from an inch and a half.
And then as he fell, there were three other shots fired, two of which hit, one went through his jacket.
So there were four shots, but it does appear this Thane Eugene Caesar, the security guard, was a shooter.
Though I have a source who suggests there was a second assassin behind him, but it looks as though this guy was the guy.
And Surin was a pure distraction.
Everyone was just piling on him.
You know, Bobby wouldn't have Secret Service because Jack.
They were involved in setting him up.
When Nigel Turner did his Men Who Killed Kennedy in his episode seven, The Smoking Guns, he had me come on and talk about 15 indications of Secret Service complicity in setting him up for the hit and covering it up.
Yep.
So, I mean, if you think about it, if you want to, if you're the global cabal and you want to assassinate the president, the Secret Service is the very first place that you would infiltrate.
So, the Secret Service is actually the first one that went into deep capture for sure.
Oh, sure.
Right.
After that, it would be law enforcement agencies.
Right.
But I think that the Secret Service goes back before the FBI, doesn't it?
Wasn't the FBI, Hoover, and the Secret Service predated that?
Yeah.
I'm not clear on the exact history.
I have to look it up to, you know, to fact check myself on this.
But, you know, the foundation doesn't really matter, even if they had existed at the same time because of.
How they're positioned, you know, with the gun always next to their protectees.
That is the prime location for an assassination.
And also, they are trained, right?
If you're trained in protection, you're trained in, you know, you're a trained killer, really.
So they are perfect.
So, ironically, the Secret Service was the first one into deep capture.
But because they are now smaller than the CIA and the FBI, they also could be the first one out of deep capture if Secret Service Director Sean Curran places cards right and does a proper.
Basically, decontamination, you know, pest control operation on the deep state for which he would need advanced tools that only Bill really has.
So, but anyway, you know, they could be the first ones out of deep capture.
And they kind of already are because, in my view, they are the only ones that stood in the way of the last, you know, handful of assassination attempts.
They are the only reason that President Trump is still alive.
This is a huge scandal.
Oh, yeah.
You added on the long list of huge scandals.
Look, if big complex human systems are on deep capture, and if we're talking about the government, so the very top of government having gone into deep capture long before we were born and then just festering and growing, the deep capture grows as psychopaths and criminals get recruited to higher levels of management.
So they kind of accumulate at the top, right?
And start to clog up the system.
When you find yourself in this situation, what we're observing now is exactly the symptom.
Of this sort of situation.
The judiciary is as corrupt as they come.
The FBI lie their ass off.
The CIA is beyond redemption and try to kill President Trump repeatedly, right?
And the Masons have their signature all plastered all over.
And yes, this is exactly what the final stage of deep capture looks like.
Now, there's only two ways from here.
Either we tidy it up, so we pull up the nose of the plane before we hit the ground, or we're going all the way and we're basically going to end up like Venezuela, you know?
So, or all the other Latin American countries where the deep capture cycle just, you know, kind of took hold.
And then it kind of crystallizes out, it freezes out, and then you're in it, well, potentially forever.
The only way out of deep capture for a complex human system are two ways.
Number one, super bloody revolution from the base up.
That's kind of like the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution sort of thing, super bloody.
Or the civilized way is for a bigger system to come in and oppose your leadership.
That's what I would say is currently happening, trying to happen in Iran.
We disagree on that, but you know, you get the idea.
But the problem is that there isn't a bigger system than the US.
So, unless we can cycle it out in a civilized manner, using the courts and using non bloody means, we are so fucked beyond redemption.
It's not funny.
So, that's really what's at stake right now.
And everything that we're seeing are just the symptoms of terminal deep capture, basically.
Fascinating.
I don't doubt they were using Trump's arrival in China as a distraction when they took the files from Tulsi's office.
They figured the world.
Can you imagine if he was just in the White House?
I think he would jump into the beast and rock up at the CIS director's office in person.
Yeah.
Fireworks would fly, you know?
I wonder if Rand was aware of what was happening.
I mean, yeah.
So, you know, I'm waiting.
I'm very troubled by this, Catherine.
This is very, very bad.
Okay.
On the big scale of things, though, remember how many boxes they stole from Mar a Lago, which Trump was entitled to have.
You know, remember all the other stuff that they stole.
And then finally, remember I mean, on the scale of their child sacrifice, child trafficking, and all that, they just took a bunch of boxes that we didn't have access to and were fine for decades.
So we're not having access. to them right now.
But also remember, as the final positive note, that all this stuff was already scanned into a government computer somewhere and transferred because nobody carries external hard drives left, right, and center, not even the CIA.
So they transmitted it already, these printouts, okay, through government computers, which means NSA still has the copies.
And they are too freaking dumb to find all the copies to delete.
Bill is pretty sure, All of them are too dumb to find every last copy.
So the files are still there.
It's just a Kabuki theater where a bunch of Muppets took a little printout and are now pretending that it's gone so that we don't look for it.
And I think this is the moment where Trump has to say, okay, enough of this bullshit.
I'm going to take control of NSA and we're going to tidy it up properly because this is a dangerous situation when you have a mutiny by CIA, the most dangerous organization that there is.
Even more dangerous than the FBI because for real, they are tied to Mossad and, you know, MI6.
They, you know, work with them every day.
So we have a mutiny while the president is in China, out of all places.
So I think this has to be the final, you know, tripwire.
And when Trump comes back, there has to be all hell to pay for the deep state because otherwise they'll think, hey, he's just a pushover, you know?
So, man, if personally, if I were Trump, I would literally take a drone and just, you know, Smash up a couple of things in the CIA offices.
You know, there's an incident where a US military helicopter, I think, no, I think it was, I have to remember which exact embassy it was, but I think it was in Germany.
So a black unmarked helicopter, presumably U.S., you know, military helicopter, flew, or maybe it was a U.S. embassy.
I don't know.
Anyway, it was an embassy in Germany and a black helicopter flew over it and smashed up all the porcelain inside.
Now, how do you do that without dropping a missile on the embassy?
You do it by smashing everything with pulsed energy projectiles, exactly the same stuff they used to smash our.
Brand new master bathroom window, everything they use to smash the roof and smash glass and objects around us.
So these pulsed energy projectiles are, I would say, classified physics, and they can go through the ceiling, they can go through the roof, but they can still smash up objects and even kill people, right?
They've demonstrated that in several of my homes.
And I think they just flew a helicopter over that and just smashed up all the glass in the embassy to send a sign, right?
And I think if I were Trump, I would do exactly the same thing.
Smash up everything inside the CIA in the canteen or whatever is on the, you know, in an accessible floor, absolutely smash the place just to say, no, I want those, you know, effing boxes back.
But at some point, you have to literally use the military to get control of these intel psychotic degenerates.
And yeah, they only respond to death threats.
That's why they give death threats to us, because in their world, the only currency is, you know, Torture and murder.
No, psychopaths don't respond to anything else, a little bit too many, but you know, torture and murder works best.
So that's the only way to talk to the CIA.
You torture them, you kill them, and you go, hey, whoever's left, you know, give me the boxes back.
That's what I would do if I were in charge.
Do you imagine the US of A would be a lot more fun?
But seriously, it has been done before.
I would just have the same, you know, smashing up of porcelain, you know, in the embassy sort of routine.
And just set a sign.
If he has the nuclear codes, surely he can use his signal chat to initiate this and send a drone or a helicopter over the CIA building and cause some havoc.
Break a couple of desks.
Test your weapons.
That's what I would do.
Catherine, I'm so dismayed by all this shit.
And as you said, so blatant.
Yes, yes.
But the good news, the good news is, you know, the worst thing about deep capture is when it's in the covert phase, because the covert phase is deadly.
It's silent.
Nobody knows.
All the deluded morons are like, oh, but that's a conspiracy theory, you know?
And then the real people who know about it get picked off and murdered one after the other, right?
That's, I think, how, what's his name?
William Cooper died, the guy who wrote the, you know, the Horseman of the Apocalypse book, you know?
And all these people, they were talking about this, but they were alone.
Nobody believed them in large enough numbers, and they could be picked off and murdered one after the other.
That's what happened to Ted Gunderson, right?
That's what happened to John Nash and all the people who were trying to do something about it.
Now it's in your face.
There's no more questions about who is doing it, you know, because it's the CIA taking the CIA boxes.
So I'm pretty sure it wasn't, I don't know what, you know, the Department of Social Security.
So now we know it's in the open.
This is the best way because this is the final phase before the cleanup.
You know, cleanup or failure.
And failure is not an option here.
So now Trump has to kick into action.
And also, I would say Sean Curran has to kick into action and realize the problem is far too vicious, far too deadly to be dragging his feet and not get all the information in.
And he has to stop stonewalling Bill.
He just has to listen to him once to understand what's possible before they kill Bill as well.
The Bribe and Cleanup Phase00:07:25
So that's basically the point that we're at.
And I'm just happy that shit starts happening to the people in power because otherwise, they only care about themselves.
You know, I try to reach out to Tulsi Gabbard countless times.
I get farted off.
You know, when if she has pets and one of her pets gets murdered gruesomely, maybe that's when she will start listening.
You know, when the CIA goes after her pets or her kids or her loved ones, right?
I don't want it to come to that, but that's what happens to every single targeted individual.
They start killing your pets.
They start sometimes maiming your pets before killing them.
They start, you know, hurting your loved ones and they start.
Killing your loved ones.
So, in my family, every single person who died in my lifetime was murdered by the intelligence agencies.
And I have, yeah, I have various proof, you know, on the scale of the stuff that you have for RFK and JFK.
When you really look into it, you're like, holy shit, this is not a natural death.
It's highly timed, highly symbolic.
And yeah, so I'm a targeted individual and I was born into this.
And Trump is a targeted individual.
So is Secretary Kennedy, RFK Jr.
And I wager that before long, so will be Tulsi Gabbard.
And if they think that they are just because they are richer or more important than us, that it can't affect them, that's not how the system works.
In fact, they are bigger, juicier prizes and targets as a result of that.
So that's the situation we're in right now.
Wow.
So hot off the press, right?
That shit just went down today.
I find it staggering.
Yeah, yeah.
And yeah, one of the things I have to just say it once on camera, just so that I said it once.
I am wondering if it's the new Qatari plane that Trump threw down to China with, or if it's still the old Air Force One.
It somehow looked so new.
The paint job on it looked so snazzy new.
I'm not sure, but it's still the same old shape.
Otherwise, it looked the same.
But you say, I mean, I heard that the Qataris demanded the plane back, but I also heard that the, you know, Boeing or whoever does it said that the refurbishment was finished.
So between the two, it's a toss up.
And then I've also heard that somebody claimed to have heard on Fox News or whatever that it is still the old plane, but when he's back, he will start using the new plane.
I have no idea, but I have massive reservations about using another nation's plane because the whole thing has to be a giant listening box.
It's got to be.
Got to be wired for, I don't give a damn what they do in the referral machine.
It's got to be set up to over here and report every goddamn word said on the plane.
You can really, I mean, take this thing apart and go bit by bit.
But one of the things you cannot really do effectively is go bit by bit through the electronics.
And that's why I really worry about it.
You know, you can do so much with x raying the plane, really look for wires, for microphones, stuff like that.
You can really go through it with a fine comb.
But I don't believe for a second.
That they have the capabilities to find any sort of back doors that, by the way, MI6 would have planted via the Qataris in that thing.
So electronics back doors.
I also think about material faults.
There's ways to introduce material faults, subtle cracks, say in the crystals that are the big turbines.
Heck no, there's so much potential for malicious sabotage.
And I don't like it because the Qataris and the Brits are like this.
And if MI6 wanted to have a kill switch on the president, that would be the biggest, juiciest thing, because it would be spectacular.
It would, you know.
Cause a big, spectacular, very, you know, what's it called?
Like, reportable incident.
And they love that sort of stuff.
So I am really worried about that Qatari plane.
And I really want the Qataris to take it back.
When I heard that they demanded it back, I'm like, yes, give it back to them.
Would have been impolite not to accept the gift, you know, like almost like an insult to Anna.
But if they want it back, be my guest, you know, take the thing.
It's.
It so obviously falls in the category of a bribe.
I mean, it's outrageous, you know.
They have something like this taking place in public.
I mean, how could Trump have even accepted it if he had any principles?
See, this bothers the hell out of me, Catherine.
Well, to be fair, this is what somebody said about oh, it was James O'Keefe exposing one of the White House staffers.
Yeah.
I'm not sure if you heard about that.
I only heard about it yesterday, also.
It was the.
The black guy who went on a Tinder date and was, you know, again catfished by an undercover reporter.
And he claimed that, you know, the ballroom is being funded by donations.
This is without the security infrastructure, which is going to be a billion dollars, right?
But the building is being funded out of private donations of, you know, up to 400 million.
And he was saying, well, he personally cannot accept a gift of more than $25.
So how can Trump accept these donations?
Well, the difference is.
The donation is to the nation.
Trump is not taking the ballroom with him when he leaves.
It's not going to be an annex of Mar a Lago.
So, this is going to be for the American people.
So, by rich members of WIDA people for the people, great.
That's exactly how all the public parks were donated in Europe, right?
All the public buildings was exactly that, right?
So, that's great.
It's different from you getting a personal gift and walking out of the building with it.
And similarly, this plane.
It might have been in the moment a bribe to the government that they save some money, but long term it's not really a bribe because Trump's not going to turn that into Trump Force One, you know, when he leaves.
At least I'm not aware that he would do that.
I thought it was meant to be Air Force One, but you know, but surely for the negotiations, yes, it was a bribe, it was a gift.
But that's how the Middle East works, by the way, Jim.
You don't get anything without giving gifts, you know, that's how Eastern Europe works or used to work not that long ago.
So it's very much.
The way of conducting business in the Middle East, you know, or in DC, I would like to say, hashtag Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, they don't do without gifts either.
What is your take on the current situation in the Middle East?
This is where I sent a couple of videos that were updates, yeah, and uh, and we could look at one of them.
Let's look at one of them.
Reaching the Point of No Return00:04:07
We got the Chinese professor saying we've reached the point of no return.
Shall we look at that?
Yeah, is that the AI Chinese guy?
Yeah, well, he's sometimes live, sometimes AI.
But the point is, he's very, very good.
I mean, I think the guy is wonderful myself.
I mean, in a sense, yes, we have reached the point of no return because this has to be finished.
There's no way to leave it like this as it is right now.
Yeah.
Hang on.
To take back Texas, return better.
Okay, to get it set up, I got to go through one more iteration.
Nobody warns you about this part of homeownership.
Surprise repair bills.
They could wipe out your savings.
That is not a metaphor.
They put so many videos in now as ads.
Okay.
Here we go, Catherine.
Let's watch.
See if I can get it right from the very beginning.
This conflict just crossed a point of no return, and it is spreading faster than the headlines are reporting.
That is not a metaphor.
That is not speculation.
That is operational reality, measurable in the last 72 hours across at least four separate theaters.
For months, Washington has been telling the public and telling itself that this conflict had clear boundaries, that it was contained to a specific geography, a specific set of actors, a specific escalation ladder that could be walked up and down at will.
That framing has now collapsed.
The boundaries are gone.
The geography has expanded.
The actor list has grown and the escalation ladder is no longer something Washington walks.
It's something Washington is being dragged up one rung at a time by events it can no longer control.
The single most dangerous moment in any conflict is the moment after the point of no return is crossed, while the people in charge still believe it has not been crossed.
That is exactly where we are right now.
If you want to understand what is actually happening, where this is spreading, and why the next 96 hours matter more than the last six months combined, you are in the right place.
Subscribe and hit the bell so you do not miss the analysis coming through the rest of this week because the story is moving faster than the official briefings can catch up to.
This channel exists for exactly this kind of moment when the surface narrative and the underlying reality have diverged, and you need someone walking you through what the briefings are not yet saying.
Let us start with what we actually know because before we walk through how far this has spread, we have to be precise about the line that was.
Crossed when it was crossed and why it cannot be uncrossed.
So here is the foundation a point of no return in the technical language of conflict analysis is not a dramatic event, it is a structural threshold.
It is the moment after which the system stops responding to traditional de escalation tools.
Sanctions still get applied, statements still get issued, back channels still operate, but they stop producing the effects they use to produce.
The instruments are the same.
The system has changed.
Shape underneath them.
That threshold gets crossed in three stages, and the academic literature on this is consistent.
Stage one, a participant concludes it has more to lose by negotiating than by continuing.
Stage two, secondary actors conclude they have more to gain by inserting themselves than by staying neutral.
Stage three, the conflict develops independent transmission channels into theaters that were previously unconnected to it.
Once all three stages have been crossed, the conflict is no longer the same conflict.
It has become a regional or global system event and it follows different rules.
In the last 72 hours, all three stages have been crossed.
Not one, not two, three.
Lloyds London Warns of WWIII00:08:01
Now, the scale of what has just happened.
The conflict that began as a bilateral confrontation has by every measurable indicator expanded into at least four active theaters in the past week alone.
The Persian Gulf, where commercial shipping disruption has reached levels not seen since the late 1980s.
Iraq, where attacks on US bases have moved from sporadic to near daily.
Lebanon, where Hezbollah's posture has shifted from calibrated to operational.
And the Red Sea, where Houthi anti-shipping activity has more than doubled in the past two weeks.
Four theaters, one conflict.
Let us put a concrete number on the shipping disruption, because abstract talk of spreading does not land until you translate it into the numbers a person can feel.
Reports indicate global container shipping rates on the affected routes have climbed by roughly 80% in the last 30 days.
According to reporting from Lloyds of London, doubled in the same window.
That figure is so commonly cited, it has lost its power to shock people.
So let us translate.
Let me just interject.
Yeah, go ahead, Catherine.
Let me just interject because I just saw that this video is 24 minutes long.
So if we let him talk us through all the way, we might run out of time.
But I was just looking at his map here, okay?
So first of all, let's start with the last one he just mentioned, which is on the right hand side the war risk insurance premiums.
You know, according to Lloyds of London, has gone up by 100%.
Now, footnote about Lloyds of London, okay?
Lloyds of London is basically like the same as the, what was it called, the East India Company, okay?
The big cabal, you know, colonial, what's it called, underpinning of the entire British Empire, the Crown Empire.
Lloyds of London is so far up the rectum of the beast.
The next stop is the Vatican.
All right.
So if Lloyds of London would double insurance premiums just because, okay, but they are absolutely not independent from the British interests.
And the British interests have been the great game for the crown that kept Iran as a baddie state.
So anything that unravels this, you know, the game that they have been playing, the way they have been playing it, is going to meet with huge resistance from the British crown.
For that reason alone, right?
Now, Lloyds of London is right up there, okay?
So they will use Lloyds of London.
So I would not consider Lloyds of London to be an independent, I don't know, thermometer of what's going on.
Lloyds of London is a weapon of war, all right?
So that's the way I would look at Lloyds of London.
It's absolutely not independent in this equation at all, not at all.
It's actually a front organization of one of the major players that has a regional interest in Iran.
The other thing that I spotted here on the left, if I go through the Persian Gulf, shipping disruption is the highest since the 1980s.
Yeah, well, no shit.
That's where the war is going down right now.
So that's one thing.
But war risk insurance doubled.
I already addressed that.
That is a symptom of just how much resistance Trump actually has from the global cabal.
Now, Iraq attacks on US bases near Delhi.
Hey, they're used to it.
It's like, same old, same old.
Sure, you know, they should be able to handle it because they've been handling it for so long already.
Lebanon, now that's Israel's problem.
I mean, I don't know what we've got to do with Lebanon right now.
Jim, can you explain it to me like I'm thick?
But Lebanon is 100% Israel's problem right now, wouldn't you say?
I would not, you know, Hezbollah posture shifted to operational.
Well, let them, you know.
What he's coming to say is you got four independent operations that are not capable of being controlled, that there's.
No way of managing the situation.
He's suggesting they're symptomatic of the situation having spun out of control.
That's the message.
And I would say he's right that that's the goal, but I would say it is being spun out of control by the crown.
That's what I'm saying.
That may be, Catherine.
He's reporting it's spun out.
He thinks it's already spun out of control now.
In other words, the project, it's not going to be solved.
That it is going to grow.
I think he's implying we're going to have a third world war.
In fact, he's got another presentation that we're already in the midst of World War III.
Well, I mean, Trump just said that he's, you know, the whole war in Ukraine and the entire war with Russia essentially is coming to an end also.
And they are working on that.
That's going to put pay to World War III, right?
And now Trump is literally in China, right?
You would not send your president to China if you were on the brink of World War III because China would also be a participant in it and not a friendly one.
So the fact that, you know, I mean, we have to wait for Trump to come back in one piece.
I was super unhappy about him going to China right now.
I really effing was.
I think it's, and when I heard it might have been the new Qatari plane, I was in a tailspin, right?
But the thing is, if Trump comes back okay, that is the proof that we're not in World War III.
Also, I mean, he has the real military reports.
There's absolutely no way that his, you know, I mean, the good guys among his advisors would send him to China right now if we stood on the brink of World War III.
I think this is a last ditch attempt by the deep state of China that's working with the deep state in the US and with British intelligence to try to rock the boat and destabilize the boat.
And meanwhile, Putin and, you know, everybody, including.
Including China, business China wants to just get on with business and get on with making money.
I think this is how I'm reading the room here.
And, you know, I just couldn't see World War III breaking out while the US president is, you know, it's literally visiting somebody who would be an enemy, right?
He's suggesting that the signs of things getting dramatically worse are structural, that they're not overt, they're not.
Like mushroom clouds going off, and that by his criteria, the three stages, they've all been satisfied.
And he does, I think he doesn't see any way of going back.
In another, he said he doesn't see where Trump has any off ramp.
And you know, I think it's important that one of the points he was making the parties, some parties decide that they're better off continuing the war than they are negotiating to end it.
I think that.
Is true.
Certainly Israel wants it to continue.
Many of the Gulf states apparently wanted to continue, though I know Saudi Arabia was very upset with its idea of using American ships to bring tankers through the strait because they felt it was going to precipitate a whole lot more kinetic warfare, which they don't want.
Regime Survival Amidst Nuclear Threat00:14:43
I mean, the Gulf states do not want their refineries to be destroyed.
And I think that may be the next stage.
You know, if there's another wave of attack on Iran, and I think it's inevitable, I don't think Trump.
Knows better, and I think BB wants it.
And while I thought BB was killed when his brother died, he was on 60 Minutes Sunday, and that was BB, so I'm convinced he is alive.
But he wants the war to continue, I mean, he felt this was the only opportunity he had.
And when they were on the and he struck when he did because they were on the verge of an agreement that would take away the rationale developing nukes, which was always a fantasy.
You do agree, do you not?
Iran was not pursuing nukes.
Rand and Juan nukes, there was a fatwa against nukes, and yet the Ayatollah who issued it was the first person they killed.
I mean, it sounds like nukes had nothing to do with it.
I actually, if you remember last time I disagreed, you know, advancing the points that Iran is an oil nation, they are the last ones that would need, you know, enriched uranium for energy production.
That's the absolute most inefficient, more you're dependent on foreign powers when you are sitting on all this oil.
That never made any sense to me whatsoever.
And also, you're not so densely populated that somehow, you know, getting your energy by other means would be, I don't know, too dirty, not green enough.
That's not one of their concerns.
So, the whole nuclear energy angle seemed ludicrous to me.
And also, they were not enriching to whatever is necessary 5%.
They were enriching to weapons great capabilities, a level of enrichment that's never required, not even safe for energy production.
So, I absolutely did believe, and remember, I'm of the absolute, you know, strong opinion that.
The Iranian regime, because it was just parachuted in and, you know, put on, forced on the Iranian people, that they are a puppet of the crown and this whole British Empire, you know, Vatican Empire conglomerate.
And they absolutely would want to have Iran as the baddie state with nuclear weapons so that they can continue the great game whereby, you know, oh, we're the good guys and we're the bad guys.
And then they have this, the puppet fights as they had for centuries now.
And I think Trump is calling their bluffs by saying, hey, no, Iran will not have a nuclear weapon.
We will tidy up Iran.
It will become a very open and civilized society again.
Screw you guys.
And we'll have great relationships with Russia and with China.
And we'll have world trade and world wealth generation.
And fuck the great, great game of the Brits.
Genuinely, that's what it looks like to me.
Let me go to a different presentation by.
Colonel McGregor, and see what you think of what he has to say.
Oh, dear God.
Embracing for impact.
A longtime guest.
This is Colonel Douglas McGregor, fantastic insider into all things geopolitics and certainly the Iran war.
Colonel, how are you today?
Good, Cyrus.
Good.
Yeah, it's great to see you again.
Colonel, you know, we are in the 10th week of the Iran war, and I just would like to get your thoughts on this.
You know, we've seen so much news stories this past week with.
Trump launching Operation Freedom and then abandoning that 24 hours later.
You know, we're now seeing a potential, you know, peace deal that remarkably is very similar to Obama's deal that Trump actually said was the worst deal ever made.
And let me know your thoughts as we are here in the 10th week of this Iran conflict.
Well, following the administration, or for that matter, anything in Washington right now, is sort of watching a teenage drama, you know, about high school or something.
People are sort of moving wildly in, you know, numerous different directions.
It's hard to separate truth from falsehood or fiction from reality.
In fact, I'm not even sure they could do that anymore in the White House.
President Trump has so frequently misled everybody about what's really happening that you're tempted to almost ignore whatever comes out of the White House.
But then you sit there and you say, Well, I can't do that.
I've got the list of this nonsense and try to figure it out.
I think, you know, we're on the verge of beginning another round of attacks, or I should say, beginning a new offensive, air and missile offensive.
And the best way to sum it up is that I think President Trump.
Has stepped on the express elevator to hell and he's taking everybody he can with him.
And that's kind of the way I see it because I don't see any evidence that what we plan to do now is going to produce an outcome that's different from what we've seen thus far.
And I know that we've assembled, at least at giving it a glance, it looks like we have more firepower this time than we had the last time.
This is particularly true of the Air Force.
Bombers now at close proximity to the theater or in the theater.
A lot of exotic munitions, perhaps even more than we launched the last time.
Things like the joint air to surface strike weapon, JASM.
We launched, I guess, a thousand of these.
I think we're going to do at least that many this time.
The problem with all of it is nothing has fundamentally changed in terms of your opponent's positions and your opponent's capabilities.
So, when I hear things as I heard yesterday, well, there's this paper that he claims was being discussed.
Then you find out within 24 hours, that's complete nonsense.
There isn't.
Then you hear again, well, that's not entirely true.
There may be an opportunity here.
And as you pointed out earlier before we went on live, this looks a lot like the Obama solution from several years ago.
I don't know that any of that is true.
But what I do know is that you have an enormous amount of firepower, air and naval.
Assembled in the region.
You don't do that for show.
This just is not going to intimidate the Iranians.
They're sitting in what is the geographical equivalent of a giant fortress, surrounded by mountains and to the south, nasty deserts, some of the hottest places on earth.
And I just don't see that anything we can do is going to fundamentally alter their position.
If anything, I think they too are going to be stronger this time around than they were the last time.
I think they'll probably have more effective air defense, air and missile defense.
They've had a lot of assistance from the Chinese.
They continue to enjoy enormous intelligence support from both the Russians and the Chinese.
And I think more important, they now are in a fully fledged alliance with Russia and China.
Now, I don't know what the content was of the discussion between President Trump and President Putin recently, but he was on there for 90 minutes to two hours with President Putin.
The Russian readout that they'll release suggests that Putin was very straightforward, saying, Don't do this.
This could produce something far worse than what you've experienced thus far.
So I don't know.
You know, the temptation to read in that is great, but I'm not sure what we should make of it except to say that he's pointing to the express train to hell.
He's saying, look, you know, you're on this thing.
This is not going to help you.
This is going to make matters worse around the world.
It's going to make matters worse for you.
So I'd say that's my quick summary as to where we are right now, which is not really a very good place.
Can I jump in?
Because we're running out of time, I think.
And he already said such great stuff.
Hang on.
Go ahead, Catherine.
Yeah.
So I wanted to jump in there because he already said so much great stuff.
Now, great stuff for me to respond to.
Now, when he says that there's this big alliance between Iran, Russia, and China, I would say an alliance with whom?
Because the first round of leadership is dead.
The second round of leadership is mostly dead.
And who exactly is making these big alliances?
One of the real problems is that when you chop off the top levels of deep capture, you suddenly end up with the second tier of management and then the third tier of management.
And it fans out into all these different groups and factions that were being controlled by the representative heads.
So you suddenly, it's like the head of Medusa you cut off one head and you end up with seven others.
So that's the situation.
And they can't even negotiate effectively.
With the US government?
How are they negotiating, making these great deals with Russia and China?
And the other thing is, if I were Russia or China, I would look at what happened to the top level of the regime, what happened to their Navy, what happened to their Air Force, and I would say, I would drop that puppet regime like a rock.
I would ignore all prior agreements.
They were made with people who are now dead.
It's a new situation.
The dice are recast.
And I would just, you know, adjust to the new situation.
I don't think they have so much love lost for the SO.
The other thing is keep in mind that both Russia and China are highly secular.
All right.
In communism, religion was not a thing.
So these are very scientific, technologically minded, you know, mathematically minded countries that focus on the economy and on analysis, not on any sort of love lost to a not so, You know, Islamist regime that couldn't be further from their culture, from the Russian or the Chinese culture.
Do you see what I mean?
I cannot see how loving brotherly ties could possibly blossom between whatever is left of the Ayatollah bullshit regime and the very, you know, logically thinking Russians and the very economy minded Chinese.
I don't know what's in them, you know, in for them trying to prop up the regime.
It just doesn't add up economically.
Don't add up strategically, militarily.
It's just a shit deal.
So they have a shit deal and they have an amazing deal with Trump going over to China and going, Hey, how about we scrap this bullshit that both our nations have been sucked into?
Because remember, the US is a colony of the crown and so is China.
That's why the cabal moved all their manufacturing to China because they own them wholesale.
Otherwise, you don't put your crown jewels into their lap.
So, the way out is to basically look at the situation that we had for the last, you know, at least the last two centuries and say, hey, this sort of model of controlling both sides and having fake bankers' wars really sucks for everybody involved.
And this whole snake biting his own tail, which is like wealth generation asset stripping, wealth generation asset stripping, that is bullshit.
None of our nations can truly develop on a steady upward trajectory.
And the path forward is to cut the crap.
Most definitely cut the medieval bullshit of these Ayatollah types and just move forward together.
That sounds like an amazing deal.
And that would make sense why Trump is happy to go to China because the Chinese president already signaled, hey, yeah, that's a much better deal than this crap, right?
And we just did it out of economic necessity.
But hey, if we can trade properly with you guys, that would be amazing, right?
For the Russians, it's like, hey, we have our hands full.
Frankly, we could not care less.
About the Ayatollahs, as long as we have uranium right here, right?
We have mountains of uranium.
Our energy is going to be fine one way or another.
We'll find we have gas, right?
I mean, you can dig a little hole out there in the tundra and you've got gas.
You can set it, you know, set every hole alight.
I just don't see what the incentive would be for Russia and China.
I just couldn't.
So I'm calling BS on McGregor's analysis, frankly, in the first five minutes.
And I hope you forgive me, Jim.
Because I just don't believe a word the guy's saying.
I regard him as the single best geopolitical analyst in the world today about the war in Iran, Catherine.
No, I just crapped all over his analysis.
That's okay.
You don't have to share my opinion.
I'm just telling you what my opinion is.
And I think it has to do with a whole lot more.
It's not the Ayatollahs per se, it's Iran, its geopolitical location, its strategic significance in relation to the Straits, oil production.
They produce wonderful drones.
They're getting intel from Russia in return for drones they're giving to Russia.
China is the Belt and Road.
It goes right through Iran.
This is the most important economic development in the history of China, at least in the modern centuries.
They want it to succeed.
They are not going to allow Iran to go the way of Syria.
That's, of course, the objective of Bibi Netanyahu.
He wants to turn Iran into a dysfunctional state.
It ain't going to happen.
You've got an Iranian culture that's more than 2,500 years old.
They planned for this for 30 years.
They knew they would have waves of leadership that would be wiped out.
Israel practices assassination as virtually its first line of attack.
So they knew that was coming.
They have deep underground production facilities.
They have the CIA recently reported they had, contradicting Trump and Hegzeth, that Iran still had 70% of its.
Ballistic missile, the Iranian foreign minister contradicts that no 120 because they have underground production facilities for the missiles.
They got more now than they had before.
They're stronger now than they were on 28 Feb.
They can do more.
They have better air defense.
There's no way the U.S. and Israel can take them down.
Missile Production Hinges on Resolution00:05:37
And the problem is, with the Straits blocked, you got the world hanging in the balance with economic catastrophe looming.
Even fertilizer isn't getting out.
The prediction for famine in South.
East Asia, for example, are just catastrophic.
Oil, fertilizer, other essential elements, including something that's used to coat computer boards, you know, that is only produced by one factory in Saudi Arabia that was taken out.
So we're not even going to have computer boards that can be produced because the absence of this laminate they put on the boards.
I mean, imagine the consequence of not having new computerized components.
What I'm saying is the fate of the world really hinges on how this is resolved.
My belief is when he goes to China, He's going to get an explanation that you need us more than we need you, and this has got to end.
Just as Putin, he was reporting, Putin says, This has got to end.
I believe it's got to end.
But I don't know that Trump is able to do it because he's got, it's like Lyndon Johnson over Vietnam.
He said, I don't want to be the first American president to lose a war.
Trump got into this.
He was played by Netanyahu, and I'm worried that his ego isn't going to let him get out.
I mean, that's how I'm reading it.
I welcome your rebuttal.
I think this is the chance to, I mean, remember, it's not Bibi Netanyahu pulling all this.
It is the Rothschild family, which represents the great game, which represents the old European Vatican crime cartel cabal, right?
So, yes, I'm sure that they want, but then again, they can make money out of absolutely anything.
They will just have a company reorg, you know, whatever, pivot, do a company pivot and make money anyway.
So, at some point, they will also stop giving a damn.
Besides, they are already in China.
They control China.
It's really just, you know, I think they are just trying to drag things out to drop as many, you know, military equipment as they can so they can resell it again to these nations.
That's what I think.
You know, for the bankers, dragging out a war is always the most profitable thing.
But right now, what I see is this golden opportunity to cycle out of the great game and all this bullshit.
And you mentioned the beltway or the, what's it called, the Silk Way, whatever it used to be called.
Yes.
So, if it goes through Iran, wouldn't that be great if Trump and the Chinese leader would now agree to tidy it up and actually have profitable trade routes again and have a renaissance of that trade route and do it properly without the Islamist shithead theme surrounding it, have more stability, have Western style stability and reliability?
So, that's basically what I see.
I see this huge opportunity.
Of a pivot to a much better world where we can just focus on trade and international wealth building, but a wealth building that benefits all the nations.
Because also don't forget that Russia and China went through their own cycles of destruction and asset stripping.
It's still kind of going on in China, even more so than Russia.
And I for sure know that the communist bloc had the heck of that.
They just want to start rebuilding everything and make as much money and wealth as they can.
How soon can this be resolved in any fashion you can imagine?
How do you think it could be resolved and how promptly?
How quickly?
I think this is part of the reason why President Trump climbed into a plane and took the risk of flying to China.
I think he's trying to resolve it with the other trading partner that has the biggest say in the region.
I think they are resolving it now as we speak because.
Think about it.
If suddenly Russia and China turned around to the Iranians and said, okay, cut the crap.
Here's plan B. We're doing this now.
It would be over.
They would be literally alone on the world stage.
That's it.
Game over.
They can take the missiles and shove it, right?
But because there's no way they can fight alone against two or even three world powers.
And all I see is 100% financial, economic, and geopolitical advantage for the deal that Trump's going to offer them, and absolutely nothing good in it for them regarding what the Iranians have got to offer them.
It's just like no comparison.
But of course, remember, the Iranians are being propped up.
They are being propped up by the Rothschilds, by the great game.
And that's what everybody's really maneuvering around.
And that's also, I think, why Marco Rubio went and visited the Vatican, because they own all this shit, right?
Since the 13th century, the Vatican had a papal bull saying they own everything in the world and in the afterworld and our soul.
And yeah.
Okay.
It was one of the psychopathic stuff.
Just to reiterate, what is the deal then Trump is going to propose that they would like better?
I think that the real deal with Trump is to.
For China and the US to work together and have things like the Beltway trade routes reestablished.
Yes, absolutely.
And ask China for help and an agreement to wind down the stuff that's going down in Iran.
Trump's Proposed Real Deal00:01:33
Absolutely.
And I can tell you who's going to oppose it.
It's going to be the banking crime cabal in Switzerland, unless they do a business plan pivot.
It's going to be the King of England, who also, just by pure coincidence, happened to have visited just before this trip.
And I think, and you know, Marco Rubio just so happened to have gone to the Vatican, right?
So, what I can see is that before this trip to China, all the other big players had a meeting with Trump.
Trump spoke to the British crown, Trump spoke to the crown corporations' offices in the Vatican, right?
Now, Trump is speaking to China.
And I think next, after he's done with this stuff, he's gonna go and have a meeting with Putin again, you know?
That's what I see play out here.
And I think it's all good.
As far as I can tell, he's doing exactly what he would.
Have to do to shut down what's called the great game, which is the global shit fuckery of the Crown Corporation.
Catherine, no one is surprised for me from you.
I just love these conversations.
You've given us so much to think about.
I cannot thank you enough.
Everyone out there, once again, I have the joy of interviewing, in this case, Catherine, and look forward to interviewing Bill when he's feeling better.
Part of our series of Catherine Horton and Bill Benny under fire.