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Sept. 22, 2025 - Jim Fetzer
55:02
Real Deal Special (17 September 2025): Katherine Horton & Bill Binney UNDER FIRE!
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Okay.
This is Jim Fetzer, your host with a real deal special, my weekly conversation with Catherine Norton and Bill Benny.
It's always such a delight.
We got a few wires crossed today.
No problem.
How are the two of you doing?
Hanging in there at best, I would say.
I'm getting that from a lot of friends these days hanging in there day by day.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think the background is that the general torture and insanity has expanded.
I was involved in something to do with our local community fighting some corruption, and I was retaliated against for just talking to our local police.
When I came home, I was gunned by the drone that's above our house in our backyard, such that my foot was gunned.
I just went out with our dogs and I was sitting in the sun.
And at some point, I felt this battering sensation on my foot.
And sure enough, that was a drone gunning, like rapid fire impacts.
And I was left with a, I don't know, four inch bruise.
Nice big bruise.
Yeah.
So we're now at a stage where total mass surveillance is entirely interfaced with drones, you know, shooting you in retaliation for whatever you do politically or not even politically, just trying to tidy up, you know, local corruption.
How awful.
Yeah.
So it's.
I sent you some videos about the Charlie Kirk shooting event.
I didn't know if you had a chance to look at him or have you continued to have the same view or I just want to get an update, whatever you think about what's going on here.
What's your I haven't seen the videos, but I've done some research in some of the videos.
The one question, I have a burning question about the guy who was arrested.
Somebody sent me a post on True Social that he's a known crisis actor.
Did you know about the guy?
Yeah, he was involved in three different events.
He had something to do with 9-11.
He had, of course, he was here claiming he had done it and he clearly hadn't done it.
And it was a diversion.
And what was the other?
Boston bombing?
Yeah, something like that.
But it was several of these false flag operations I knew you had analyzed in detail.
So I was wondering, did you ever recognize the guy from your previous work?
Yeah.
I don't know if I'd run across him before, tell the truth.
This is a very curious thing, but clearly he was a diversion of some bizarre.
And the story, of course, about the suspect is getting more and more bizarre.
They had a lot of glitches when they put the thing together.
He's wearing different clothing.
So they claimed, yeah, he changes clothes on the roof and then he changes clothes back.
The weapon, he doesn't seem to be carrying a weapon when he's running across the roof.
So where's the weapon?
They say, oh, well, he disassembled it, put it in his bank, half of it in his trousers.
And I'm pointing out if you had a steel barrel in your trouser when you jumped off the roof, you might puncture your intestines, kill yourself, idiotic.
Then they claim he put it back together with a weapon.
A mouser can be this sample, but it requires a special ranch and a lot of torque.
I don't think this little kid could have even done it.
He doesn't appear to have any experience with firearms.
We got a photograph of him with a BB gun when he was a kid.
That's it.
That's it.
What's interesting is that George Webb, so I don't know anything about it.
I didn't have time to follow it up.
And I also have to say I've lost interest as soon as I see a whiff of the FBI nonsense.
Charlie Kirk is dead and we know who've done it.
It was the intelligence agencies and I don't need to get beyond that.
But George Webb did some analysis and he figured out that this kid's uncle, Mickey Robinson, Michael Robinson, just so happens, just so happens to be a special ops guy, right?
Who was involved in Ukraine?
I mean, what are the chances that he was running free Ukraine radio?
Oh, he also was supervising the building of the infectious disease surveillance system for the CBC.
You know, I mean, this is just pure coincidence.
And then, of course, there was the one, I think at first it was rumored to be $100,000 of reward money for, you know, any information about the shooter, which, of course, the family would have cashed in.
And then Candace Owens was saying that actually, well, Bill Ackman put up a million dollars for finding the shooter.
So when, you know, when this kid was turned in, the family got a million dollars, you know, bit like Sandy Hope parents.
Yeah, yeah.
He has to drive right in front of God and everybody.
How are you?
We'll give you a million bucks if you have your kid play this phony role as a shooter.
And then, of course, we'll get him off.
I watched the attorney for the county layout in great detail all the evidence they had, including his impression from lying in wait on the top of the roof, that they had his fingerprints on the gun, detailed about his relationship with his boyfriend who was somehow his roommate, who's a biological male, but is transitioning to their dating.
I mean, it is a lunacross.
It is any, not just any old person transitioning, he's also part of the furry community that they are pushing.
Now, the background story to the furry community, which I think is important to mention, a long, long time ago, before I came to the US, I said, now that they are unploding the classical control file, so it's not really a control file anymore to take drugs.
I mean, that's just a congressman, right?
Not a control file to promote good prostitutes that just another Wednesday afternoon in BC.
You know, bit by bit, they don't have many more control files left.
And it really just means three.
One of them is murder.
Second one is necrophilia, which is a thing.
Jimmy Savile was one.
And festiality.
All right.
And then, of course, pedophilia, sorry, of course, right?
So all of these tie into murder because murder is tied to all of them.
And now we have the pedophile agenda being rolled out.
We have this weird sex, you know, swapping back and forth.
And they have the icon of battle name, which is both male and female.
So we have that.
But in the bestiality category, we now have out of nowhere this furry movement.
And, you know, one of the bullets was encased with basically a kind of like a lewd joke about having an erection in one of these furry postulates.
So the bullet casings came with little inscriptions as well in this bullshit spectacle.
Look at the etchings on the shell casing.
Oh, yes, the shell casing, thank you.
That's the shopper.
To do that or the ability to do it.
I mean, it's just fantasy.
It is such blatant bullshit.
How could anybody believe any of this?
I don't know, but what really kind of freaks me out that out of those three engravings, two seem to be the chowbella seems to fit Melania and catch this fascist or fascist catch this seem to fit Donald Trump because they keep calling him a fascist.
So the way I read it is that it was cartel signaling and it was the intel agency saying he's got a bullet for Trump and Melania.
That's the thing.
And also, if you noticed on the engravings, the first one, the hey fascist catch this, it was followed by up arrow, right arrow, and three down arrows.
Well, up arrow and then down arrow is somebody maybe getting shot, you know, up standing upright, standing flat, down arrows, then being buried.
But the last symbol was repeated three times.
Now, on the other casing, the engraving was, oh, oh, Bella, Chow, Bella, Chow, Chow, Chow.
So where Chow was repeated three times.
So we've got three things, right, repeated on both.
We've got three, three.
Mason Sonic 33.
Just like in the kill order by James Comey, just like with the, you know, the Ace of Space announcement for Butler.
So stamp on her head.
Basically, the real thing I think is it was, this was a death threat against Donald Trump and the first lady.
I think that was my take on this.
Baron and Baron is the third.
Yes.
Well, yeah.
Baron, I'm not sure he's got anything to do with it, but I found other chatter, deep state chatter, that also seemed to be a threat against Barron.
So yeah, it's the first family.
And it would make sense.
I mean, I think on a previous show, I said that I could see the deep state moving in on Trump by attacking first the outer periphery, you know, Trump supporters, then people who would actually be meeting Trump.
Then it was Alex Bruceovich who collapsed on stage in December.
That was Team Trump.
Then I think Christy Noam had an allergic reaction.
Pam Bondi's pornea detached.
These weird medical incidents.
And then Giuliani had this car accident.
Still being tortured, right?
Yes, but that's.
Yeah, you are.
So Bill's in a lot of pain by the working story.
I could tell.
But anyway, the point.
It's probably because of what I'm saying.
Because my point was that they then attacked the appointees of Donald Trump, I would say.
I have never heard of somebody's pornography containers he detaching.
Sounds like a post-energy projectile shot in the eye, as I said before.
Then we had the Giuliani car accident, which to me looked like a classical hit.
Everything about it was something I've seen before myself, even including to what people told me where the accident happened, which was right after the slip road.
So the intelligence agencies can just pull off to the side.
They can see the slip road.
And it's really easy to time it so that you can catch up with the car and be the hit at the particular segment of the world where you want to do it.
So everything looked like a hit with the Giuliani incident on Saturday.
And then on Wednesday, Charlie Kirk was murdered.
And we had those creepy ass engravings on the casings.
So to me, it looked like it's first the supporters, then Team Trump, then the appointees, then a good friend like Giuliani who's known him for a long time.
Then a good friend like Charlie Kirk who's known him, but also was a major contributor to him getting re-elected.
Turning point America was a big thing.
So now who's next?
Is it going to be a family member?
Is it somebody who works very closely with Trump, like the press secretary, Caroline Lievett, or somebody else, you know, really poor to the operation?
Very public face.
Or is it going to be a family member named Trump himself?
So with all this, I stopped ignoring all the bullshit around the Charlie Kirk murder.
I do believe she's genuinely dead.
I really do.
And I saw what you said about the wife, Erica Kirk, having this big G ring.
Look, sometimes they kill Masons.
All right.
They kill Masons too.
If they were Masons and she was advertising, she choosed in the club, could be, it could also be an innocent ring, meaning something else.
I would have to have no data.
The women are not really in the mason, so it would have to be the Eastern Star, and they have slightly different symbols.
So, not sure about that one, but I'm pretty sure Charlie Kirk is dead.
And what really worries me is that it was Josh, yeah, that this was the final warning, the final stop before the intelligence agencies attacked Tom's summer.
That's it's fascinating.
I wondered if you were still convinced that he's actually dead because I've got increasing evidence that it was all a staged event.
I mean, a lot of it.
Yeah, you know, the first video you showed us the day he died where the ring moves, I think that was CGI tampering.
Since then, I was trying to corroborate it.
There's other footage that where that doesn't happen, you know, where the ring pops from the ring taken down.
Then, people were questioning the thing about this t-shirt rising.
And I am convinced that that is an artifact of the vacuum being created by a supersonic bullet.
So, when you have a supersonic bullet zipping past, sometimes if the conditions are right, you can even see a gravitational trap.
So, that's kind of like the either white note or just it looks like a mirage, has this like watery shimmer.
That is the vacuum, vacuum being created, and water not being dissolved in air anymore.
So, it condenses into droplets.
It's only a very short temporary effect, but that vacuum also creates a suction.
So, if you like some trailing winds, you know, that would suck up anything that's loose, the t-shirt, you know, in the motion.
So, for me, actually, that the t-shirt rising was an indication of where the freedom line was, because the t-shirt would be sucked up to maybe the lower, even all the way up to a trap of the bullet.
And then, with the hole on his neck, and where the t-shirt's top peak was, yeah, you can do at least a plane back, you know, it might not have been pulled all the way up to the track, we never know, but it's that you have two points defining a plane of where the bullet came from.
And that points away from the guy.
Some videos were alleging that he just folded his arms and shot Charlie Kirk, but I can't see the gun.
And also, shooting somebody while you have your back turned is not easy, but it can be done.
It can be done.
You can have a camera on the gun in principle, and use Google Glass even.
You program it to see where you're pointing.
It can be done, not a problem.
I think even I can program it with a bit of time.
But the other thing was that it didn't match the impact, the shockwave.
It didn't match the crowd reaction because the bullet was hurt all throughout the yard.
I mean, it went past the microphone.
But if you shoot somebody from that close range and the woman next to this guy who folded his arms, he wasn't reacting.
So, I think somebody would have reacted to a close-by gunshot.
And I couldn't see that.
But my problem is we don't have chain of custody for any of the footage we're watching.
We're reliant on no-name accounts.
What I love in the Butler assassination attempt is that Josh Harley published the body camp footage of the police officers.
That's how I could actually track reliably the woman on horseback at Butler.
It was an actual legit footage, you know, published by Josh Harley from the police body camp.
We know for what that's worth, right?
But now I just see editive footage being thrown around, and what I can really see is the intel agencies are doing their utmost to murky the militants.
And in a sense, that's all we need to know who's involved, right?
Well, I had this fascinating transformation from Friday where I was laying out on my show how it had been a Mossad shooter and all the reasons, and the reasons are all totally valid.
But then I did a huge amount of work over the weekend and did a marathon two hours with a law enforcement guy with over 25 years of experience with a woman with a screen actor guild credits and with a guy who's an engineer.
And we pretty much established what I thought was a conclusive case for fakery, faking, that the blood isn't where the blood ought to be.
He holds the microphone too long.
His eyes should have been open rather than shut.
When he's carried off the stage, there's no blood.
He's got white sneakers on.
There's not a drop of blood on the sneakers.
They put him in the SUV.
If he were actually dead, be a crime scene, a murder scene.
You ought to clear the area, secure it.
None of that was done.
Instead, they took it down.
They took it down.
And of course, I've heard this suggest, well, that's what Mossad would do.
You know, they take it down to destroy all the evidence.
But I'm inclined to think the following that Charlie became convinced that they were unhappy enough with him to kill him.
They actually offered him a $150 million bribe.
They said, we'll give you $150 more for Turning Point.
If you will be more emphatic in support of Israel over the genocide and bombing Iran, he was in the Hampstead.
They had a kind of an intervention with him with several of the strongest proponents of Israel who are financing Turning Point.
And they were yelling and screaming at him.
I mean, they were really berating him for allowing a guy, I guess his name is David Smith, but also Tucker Carlson to come on and to talk about genocide, you know, being wrong, being mildly, very mildly critical of Israel.
He himself had actually gone on shows and talked about how he'd been in Israel.
He visited the fence.
There's no way the official narrative added up to him, and that it's not anti-Semitic or un-American to raise questions.
I think Beebe was shitting bricks over that.
And he was also, you know, saying he told Trump directly to his face he thought bombing Iran was a bad idea.
He's saying how he's now reconsidering U.S. support for genocide.
It turns out polling for Gen Z, the group really he's orchestrating or organizing, is 65% in support of Hamas.
They want to get a more reliable guy in there.
Ben Shapiro is supposed to take over.
He's a Zionist zealot, if ever there were one.
I mean, all the way the pieces fit together, he turned down the 150 mil and he was confiding in Candace Owens, and she's talked about this, and in Tucker, that his views were changing about Israel.
Early on, he'd been very much a proponent, but he was wandering off the reservation, the Zionist reservation.
And I think for sure there was a plan to kill him, but he got word.
See, my take is this is Butler 2.0, that there was actual plot to shoot Trump in Butler, but he got wind of the script and flipped the script.
And he had the guy, the same guy who was there when he was shaking his fist, was with Charlie in office.
I saw the video, but that's not Sean Current.
Sean Currant is now the Secret Service guy.
And I know for a fact that's not Sean Curran because Sean Curran is left-handed.
The guy who's standing behind him is right-handed.
I know the one you mean.
The only thing that's in common is that they are both tall, sporty, and have the same shape of sunglasses.
But I guarantee you, it's not Sean Curran.
In every footage, every footage I've ever seen of Sean Curran, I swear he's left-handed.
That guy is, I'm 100% sure he's right-handed.
There's no way that's what I'm saying to people.
Let's see if I can find it and share it.
I know the one you mean.
I've seen two versions of the video.
The very first one is high-resolution, cell-town grade.
The other one is a low-resolution where they made him look more like Sean Curren, and it's really down to the glasses and the jawline.
But it's, you know, masculine jawline, you know, somebody who looks jacked because they are private security or secret service and the same glasses, and that's the only connection that I could see.
Okay, let me see what I can do here.
Let me pull up.
I think I have it.
I've got this as, let me view it as this.
Yeah, that's the one.
I can see it.
You're seeing who I'm talking about.
Let me go through a little bit of this.
This is about the shooter jumping off the roof.
You know, this is just ridiculous if you ask.
Did they modify the footage?
Because I swear the first time around there was no gun.
And then people said, What is this bullshit with the gun?
And then suddenly he has a gun that he's like.
He doesn't have a gun here.
They're claiming he disassembled it and he's got half in the bag and half in his trouser.
Claiming it's already in that towel and he's putting it down now.
You know, this thing in his right hand, that that's the gun.
Oh, it's he's got the bag.
There's no claim his barrel is in his trousers, which I say would be insane to jump down like that because it would penetrate your body.
Here's my problem with this whole thing.
Okay.
I mean, this is a building where you could just go on Google Maps and see like a dozen CCTV cameras.
He must have gone past.
Not just the this is taken from the building across the car.
Catherine, I don't even think it was taken the same day.
You don't have all the populate people there everywhere.
It's deserted.
This was taken on a different day to be introduced here.
I can completely see that.
I will have to do some background check, but yes, yes, I could totally see that.
My question is: why are we being shown CCTV from another building entirely?
I think this is the engineering department, if I'm not mistaken, that has the CCTV camera up next to this big ass cell tower they have, this dish, microwave dish.
But where's the CCTV from inside the building that shows the movie, that shows him moving?
First, I said, where the F is the CCTV, and then they released a still image.
And I said, well, that's nice, but how about to release the actual moving footage?
Because people recognize others both by body movement and then face.
But when you see somebody looking down the other side of the street and distance away, you don't see their face, but you recognize their body shape and movement.
That's how people recognize others.
If there's a manhunt, it's idiotic not to remove, you know, release CCTV footage.
And then they came up with this piece of shit.
What about the stuff inside the building where he's going up all to this to the booth?
You know, there would be just a still image.
They're saying we're not going crazy with conspiracy theories over at Charlie.
This, I think, is now wrong.
Irid, you seem to see the pack here, the blood pack of the back, and he's got uh, back of the channel, but the blood is coming out the front, you know, it's not coming out the back of his neck, here's here.
I don't know if you've seen this.
I'd love your, your take on this.
Not counting gang violence.
I think we stopped right there before when we start talking about this.
Let's watch.
I don't know, and to me this looks pretty legit, like what exactly was wrong with all this because um, is this?
I don't know, i'm recording.
I'll call you back.
Sorry about that, keep going.
Keep going, Catherine.
Yeah, I just um.
Basically I, I um, the the shot.
The impact of the body is exactly what you would expect if you suddenly impacted the movable.
You know the, the connection he had, the neck, between the head and the chest.
That's exactly the sort of backward movement you would expect.
That's consistent then, the blood pouring out with an oxygen shot.
That's exactly what looks.
What it looks like um, shouldn't it be bright bright, red?
I've been concerned that it appears to be dark, not and not bright.
But yeah, that could be also.
You know the, the color, because when you look at the video, you had a scene just before you see this guy's really bright.
Uh, you know red baseball cap that's in the sun.
So the camera is in the sun and it's filming something that's under the tent, in darkness, and sometimes you have color.
You know um, that the any cell phone camera does try to do corrections and these corrections end up being color distortion sometimes so, right spot that might or might not be.
The mobile the, the bullet hole moving around turns out.
The letters on his shirt also move around.
We got the ring I.
I think you may have already addressed that.
But here on his ring finger, here you have it on his pinky, and he's still microphone.
Do you think it makes sense?
He's still holding the microphone?
Well, under under sudden impact, the reflex is to tighten the hands.
You can see that in babies.
When you, when you drop them, you know, sometimes they just if they're holding something, they will hold on to your finger.
That's a reflex, to hold on to whatever you're holding.
By the way, that's also something terrifying happens.
Or somebody holds a gun with a finger on the trigger.
That's usually what causes an md this uh, gripping reflex.
But um uh, the thing is, my problem with this footage is the chain of custody.
Oh sure, it's so easy for the intel agencies to say hey, look at all these discrepancies, You know, because somebody showed me the footage and asked me about the Rising t-shirt.
And I have to say, well, the ring is clearly bullshit.
Somebody CGI'd here, some stuff.
Is the rest also CGI?
I can't tell.
So I've got a video actually.
I'm going to share it showing him being carried to the SUV.
And you can see his sneakers, which are perfectly white.
There's no blood on them whatsoever.
I mean, that seems very, very odd.
Here's the guy.
This is the one you say not to say.
Definitely.
And people now with these two side-by-side things can see why.
But it's 100%.
The guy on the left is right-handed, 100% sure.
You can even see his right hand in front of his left.
That's his dominant hand.
If you see the footage, I tried to track it.
He's definitely right-handed.
And Sean Curran is 100% left-handed.
I am 100% sure.
This guy is left-handed.
That guy is left-handed.
This guy on the left is right-handed.
Whoever the guy, the guy on the left, is private security.
The guy on the right is now Secret Service Director Sean Curran.
Yeah, very interesting.
And you got his wife who's really unbelievable.
I want to thank the first responders who struggled heroically to save Charles's life.
She does a lot of police who acted bravely to make sure that there were no other victims on that terrible afternoon.
More than that, I want to thank the first responders who struggled.
Let me share you this.
She's supposed to be at the coffin.
Catherine is a mannequin.
She's praising rubber hands.
Look at this.
This is.
I love you.
I love you.
Iron Heart.
I love you.
They love you.
Just pay.
Totally pay.
Bless you.
Jesus.
They criticize her for showing enough emotion.
They don't actually show the face here because it's not him.
You know, say whatever you'd like.
Yeah.
Now, what's the, yeah, again, good God.
I mean, that is my problem with all of this.
You know, I, as a scientist, I like my data clean and bullshit free.
And I will work overtime to make sure data integrity for you and me are the very first thing before you even get to work, right?
Now, of course, you have contaminations in the data.
And then when you deal with the human sphere, there's so much more to consider.
Maybe they wanted this footage because remember, she's an influencer.
She is a celebrity in her own right.
She is also no stranger to getting clicks and putting on a publicity stunt.
If there was some sort of agreement or some handlers talked her into, hey, you really need this footage.
It will be great for Turning Point America.
But she says, look, I really don't want to, you know, hug the dead body of my husband live on camera.
I just don't.
I find it disrespectful and turn it into a photo shoot, which I can also understand.
Then they would say, okay, we'll just pretend it's it and we'll put in a mannequin.
So, you know, these like publicity stunts are so far removed.
And the other thing is, I can't see her face.
I can't read micro expressions.
Is there genuine grief or is this a big show?
You know, is that even the same woman?
Heck no, right?
I can only see her.
Her hair looks slightly different.
I have no idea.
So, you know, God, this is what's so revolting.
And we wouldn't even have to do any of this if any one of us three had even a shade of confidence in the SBI investigation.
And the fact that none of us do is really more telling than any of these video pieces.
FBI has become a joke, a complete joke.
Bill, I don't know if you want to offer any opinions about the Charlie Cook shooting.
I just think the guy was nothing but promoting good and conversation between people who had different opinions and was open to anybody's objection to anything he was saying.
And he didn't put them down for their objections.
You know, it just inconceivable to me how anybody could object to that kind of person of that kind of philosophy.
Yeah.
It's all very disturbing.
It's just, and I personally think it's a function of what's been pushed by the left, calling everybody that's associated with Trump or anybody that's conservative, calling them racists and all kinds of names over and over again.
And the media helped that along all over the media.
I mean, this kind of crap is a part of the sophist school of how do you win an argument in the ugliest way.
And it's created this environment where people and you show that to the population.
Now, some fraction of them are going to be so disturbed by what they're being fed that they're liable to do something, which is what the case is here, in my view, in my view, anyway.
Yeah, so I don't for a second believe that some radicalized little kid that has, you know, oh my God, he's not just gay, there's also the trans agenda and a very slight bestiality light agenda mixed in.
It's just too many agenda tick boxes.
You know, what are the chances when they recruit these assassins?
Be they go see like a DEI hiring list and you have to be literally like a black lesbian with Jewish and, you know, an Eskimo from an ethnic minority.
I mean, what the ep, you know, mad people seem to be just ticking new agendas so wonderfully.
I don't believe a word of it.
So I don't believe for a second, not a nanosecond, that the assassin was any of that, like a radicalized kid.
Was the kid on the roof the shooter?
I couldn't think so.
Much more likely, I think Uncle Mickey's special ops guys were the guys, or maybe Uncle Mickey himself was the guy who got hired, but certainly he's got some contact in the special ops community who could actually take a shot in this time to once, not fuck it up from the point of view of the deep state, right?
I still think that Butler's shooting was legit.
I still think Giuliani, that was an actual hit and he survived by a miracle, just like Trump did.
And the third time around, somebody said, look, this time, please hire a professional.
Don't hire some young little bomb maker, CIA bomb maker to take a pot shot.
Don't hire some young woman to try to build a pit maneuver on Giuliani.
This time, please hire a dude with some experience who can take a shot.
And this guy took a shot and hit his neck artery perfectly.
So hitting the neck artery is you want to make sure the guy bleeds out before he reaches hospital.
And that's what I see.
The shot was taken by somebody actually professional, somebody psychopathic, and somebody who has proven his merit several times to the cartel.
Otherwise, they wouldn't have hired him.
So my profiling lands me with a special ops guy who's maybe proven his metal in battle recently.
So from an active war zone, from a recent war zone, where he shot people as a sniper and he has a body count that's not quite out of date.
And people trusted him that he can still take a shot to a neck artery from 200 yards away or however many yards away because it would have been somewhere else, right?
That is what I'm looking for if I'm running a professional investigation.
I'm not looking for some college kid whose boyfriend wears a furry costume.
You know, so my money is more on Uncle Mickey than this kid and his, you know, boyfriend and his Discord chat.
Fuck's sake.
I mean, Discord, really, who the hell still use Discord?
It is a joke.
No one is going to buy it.
It's just absurd, just completely a fairy tale.
There's no plausibility whatsoever.
Bill, you want to add?
Yeah, no, I just think the whole thing is a it just shows you the extent of which this country becomes so divided and so divisive internally.
The country was this is really a cancer growing on our whole social network.
I mean, it's just inconceivable to me that people would just kill people because of the positive things they're trying to do and have a conversation.
What kind of a society are we when we do that?
Yeah, I mean, well, I guess this is where we differ.
I mean, I guess what to really mean is the radicalization after that.
Yeah, because I don't think you would before it.
Yeah, and you would be before it.
Because the thing is, I don't think anybody can, anybody's actually worth their money to claim, oh, it's radicalization to death and this assassination attempt.
No, professionally, my opinion is the intelligence agencies led to this assassination, and it's the final warning to Trump before the line.
That's it.
And it follows the microwaving of the eyes of Colorado, what's it called?
Rallyboers, the what's his name?
Gottlieb, the NYC deli owner Gottlieb died the night before Trump was due to meet him.
I think that was the morning.
That was actually the day when I sent the first letter to Trump.
He died a few hours later.
Then Alex Kruzovich collapsing, you know, all this stuff that I listed, Giuliani, Charlie Kirk, it's all the intelligence agencies, and it just goes boom, coming ever closer to Trump.
So for me, Charlie Kirk has nothing to do with the radicalization.
That's a cover story.
It has everything to do with this, you know, downward slope, honing in upon a target ball coming ever closer to the main target.
And so, but to actually pick up your point, it is being weaponized.
The whole thing against Charlie Kirk was weaponized by the media.
So for me, the absolute best upshot was that people started talking about bringing back the Smith-Mund Act, the one that outlooked propaganda.
And they suggested calling the new incarnation of it the Charlie Kirk Act.
So that for me is taking bullshit and turning it into gold.
My impression was that Charlie Kirk Act was to restore the Smith-Mund Act in 1948.
Yeah, I think, yeah, that was his proposal.
Which, which Obama modernized in 2012 just in time to bring a Sandy Hook, as the Smith Act precluded the use of the same kind of propaganda being used abroad, staged event, paid riots, and all that from being used within the United States.
He made it legal to bring people like Sandy Hook, Boston bombing, oh, Parkland, the line.
The list goes on and on.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And I think that is the best upshot.
And, you know, oh, gosh, to go back to the original point, if Charlie Kirk is still alive, I don't believe it.
But if he is, great, because then two kids still have that dad.
But I rather doubt it.
Yeah, that's how I think it evolved.
The guy has a great deal of courage and integrity.
He was rejecting the silver.
Knew he was then confronting the lad and he he figured out a way to circumvent it, and I think it was with Trump's help, because my interpretation of Butler's that was also a staged event.
I know we disagree.
What I think we both agree is, either way, with Charlie Kirk, it has the benefit of making Israel and Zionism a focus of attention, and people are outraged, outraged I.
I think it's been ironic, since that was his organization, a turning point in relation to how the world views Israel.
I, I think that this is a, you know, a bridge too far the, the straw that broke the camel's back.
I think this was it.
I think this was it, and even if it turns out to, there's no going back on the Israeli genocide, bombing of Iran uh, october 7th, and all that State OF THE Union had a list of event after event where Israel had been affecting our history by killing our leaders, you know, involved in one after another, and i'm having a hard time denying it.
I mean, you know, I think the outrage is real and will be enduring.
Well, I mean, one of the things they never answered up for is the Uss Liberty Ship yeah, for example, you know.
You know I had, I had an opportunity to be on that ship 15.
Yeah, I had an opportunity to be on that Us Liberty and I turned it down because uh, I was stationed I was in the US ARMY at the time ARMY Security Agency so I was doing uh sick in operations in uh, in Turkey.
Yeah and uh that that site was tasked to provide an analyst for the ship, right and uh.
So the ncoic of the analytic shop came up to me and said, how would you like to take a boat ride in the Mediterranean?
And I said thank you, but no thank you because, number one, i'm not in the NAVY.
Number two, I don't tread water very well and number three, i've got orders to go back to NSA in the States.
So, thank you, but no, thank you.
Those are three pretty good reasons and fortunately I did that.
Otherwise, you know, they just murdered our people for no reason whatsoever.
Well, Linden was all in either.
We're blaming it on the Egypt.
You know he was going to nuke Cairo.
Was that bad?
It was that bad.
That was the plan.
Well, I mean, it was all up whenever.
And then Johnson looking, you know what he did after that?
I mean the, the naval commander and uh, the admiral and the men ordered the, you know, off the ships to go I think we're afterwards go get air cover to the ship and while they were in flight to to get protection from the ship, Johnson called them in and said, take them back, we don't want to embarrass our ally, that's right.
I mean, give me a break.
So what?
34 of our guys died and 170 were wounded, or something like that.
Right, that's right, that's right, that's right.
No, Lenin wanted the ship at the bottom of the Mediterranean, he did, yeah, yeah, get rid of the evidence, but then see, he initiated a plot to take out JFK for crying out loud.
This is a bad dude, yeah, one of many.
Well, then he went on to uh stir up uh Vietnam and send half a million guys over there to get killed and kill people.
Yeah, that was a million, and some people died because of that.
Thanks.
I think going forward, the best informal of this, what I really want people to start doing is spot the pattern behind all these guys because they're all part of the same secret society, they go to all the same rituals.
They're actually behind the scenes, Mossad and British intelligence who will see our one club, they exchange personnel, they do rotation, you know.
So it's not as different as we think.
And at the end of the day, I also, when people refer to Israel, it means different things, different people, because to the Jewish people, it's their homeland.
But really, first and foremost, I believe it's the private victim of the Gross Childs, the people who run these central banks and the currencies and do you know global bullshit fuckery, where we always end up as the schmucks.
So it's not really about the homeland of the Jewish people.
When we are talking about it, Bill, when I'm talking about it, it's about the HQ of one of the crime families who are running the country.
You know, that's really, and it's their tentacles worldwide.
That's the continuous misunderstanding that I see.
I mean, nobody would object to a homeland for the Jewish people, but then a homeland for the Jewish people wouldn't have, you know, designs on screwing over everybody else and be, you know, among their neighbors.
So I think we should all focus on international organized crime and white-collar organized crime and try to spot the networks that all these bad actors are part of.
And speaking about that, I've been pushing out on Truth Social the way it means to do it.
We've discussed that on your program here before several weeks ago.
And I've been pushing that out there saying if you really, here's how to do it.
And I even listed out all the steps, what you have to do to be able to get to that point.
And also some of the protections that were built in that they took out.
Bush, Haney, Cheney, Hayden, and Tennett took them out.
And Obama kept them out.
And it just kept growing because they saw the power in this thing.
And I think Diane Burke said at one point, Hayden said, you know, this thing just gets better as time goes on.
Well, that was the whole design of it.
The more information you have, the better, not the worse.
You know, it doesn't bury you the way we did it.
So, I mean, and we said, here's how you can manage massive amounts of data and do it right and catch and get intentions and capabilities and threats before they happen, not after, because what they're doing now is all after the fact.
Well, that's a forensic job.
That's a police job.
It's not intelligence, you know.
I mean, that means they're all not doing intelligence anymore.
They're just saying, oh, we've got a lot of data.
So if somebody kills somebody, we can go get them.
You know, well, why the hell don't you get them beforehand?
Well, you know, because it doesn't, if you do it the right way, you don't have power over innocent people.
You don't have power over everybody.
We don't have power over governments or parliaments, kings, queens, whatever they are, you know, or dictators.
We don't have power over anybody.
Well, dictators, you might, because you'd be targeting them.
But anybody you don't target, which is the vast majority of the population of the planet, you have no power over.
And that's really what they want.
It's really crowd control and population management.
That's what's going on.
Also known as slavery.
Yeah.
I'd like both your assessment on the effects of all this, because I think realer stage is going to have the same effects.
And I think they're all very good at emancipating and liberating thought.
And I think that's why Charlie Kirk is going to be remembered for having made a difference by opening minds to the possibility Israel really is as evil, as malevolent as we know it to be.
Those of us who have followed its history is outrageous.
So I'd love to get your reflections on how you think this is going to affect the world at Panya.
Well, that's why I was discussing with you about this having something to talk about in logic, how to think, what's a fact, you know, how you recognize what's real and what isn't.
That kind of thing.
That's an important thing because I think logical thinking isn't taught anymore.
There's no, that I can see anyway in our educational system.
Yeah.
They don't like to teach the kids how to think or just get them to even consciously begin to question things.
That's how you start to think, you question things.
Yes.
Well, you know, I don't see that happening even now.
That's why I'm all for getting rid of the educational department in Washington and push it down into local where people are concerned about reading, writing, and arithmetic and things like that.
You know, the basic and how to think and how to do things.
We've gotten away from that.
That's why we've outsourced everything, right?
Because A, we got slave labor overseas and B, we can dumb down the population by doing that.
Yes.
Excellent.
Catherine, your thoughts?
I think I hope just as much as the evil agenda of the Roth Child's Private Victim, that's how I would like to refer to it, because the aspect that's the homeland of the Jewish people is a laudable thing.
But we have to detach it, that the evil parts, the military being called back perfectly timed on October 7th to facilitate certain things, kicking off them, facilitate other things that end in genocide.
That element has nothing to do with the homeland of the Jewish people.
It has very much to do with globalist crime, right?
Globalist crime syndicates.
And I want to detach the two.
And if we can move beyond the Israel label to what is the bit that's organized crime and what is an experiment to create a homeland for the Jewish people, right?
So the two are separate.
And I am only concerned with the organized crime element because it has tentacles to the United States and Europe.
And because I believe that those are the people who want to kill President Trump next time.
I think those are the people who control the intelligence agencies.
And for me, going forward, I hope that there's so much bullshit with the murder of Charlie Kerr that this time around, the people wake up just how much bullshit the so-called investigation of the FBI actually is.
It is just a theater play pumping out of ludicrous childish nonsense.
And I hope that that will lead to some crisis at the FBI that will outl the people who pulled this off and all the false flag operations and are doing the torture and targeting program that we are under.
And then we could return to actual some law enforcement agency of integrity at the federal level.
That's my hope.
That we reduce this, we turn shit to gold, and we use this ginormous department, you know, maybe a murder, maybe a staged event.
I hope, well, I hope you were alive, that would break, but I'm afraid it will be dead.
But either way, we have to turn this situation we cannot help anymore and turn shit to gold.
Also, there's a public debate about what is your opinion and what is appealing for somebody to be murdered.
The latter is illegal.
And also, what is general human decency where a young father of two children, whatever his opinions, has been ruinedly murdered in a public setting, that you don't gloat about that.
So all these discussions are now taking place.
Also, what's acceptable for secret service agents?
Can they gloat about the murder of somebody feeling at private security?
And just out of being on the wrong side of the two-party divide, can secret service agents publicly gloat about a debt?
All these discussions are happening in response to it.
And I think it's a good thing.
It's long overdue.
And that's all just handshake to go.
That's why I'm not the one.
And there's a way to do that and make sure that, make sure it can continue after Trump leaves off.
There's a way to do that too.
But nobody's thinking about it.
In fact, when I tried to propose that back in 1992, right, internally in NSA, they told me I was never going to do that program because it was too exposed, exposed everything.
And there's no way they could hide it, by the way.
If you make a money transfer in government, there's a record, electronic record.
So you can automatically analyze all of that.
And, you know, and keep it in real time.
I mean, I'm not talking about after the fact, you know, a couple months later, we come back and look at it.
No, I'm talking about within milliseconds, you can know what's going on.
Anyway.
Given you made this proposal for an integrity and government master plan that would be 100% successful, and they've suppressed that since 1992.
That's over 30 years.
Like maybe 33, ironically, 33 years of Anasonic.
That's right.
Do we have any reason to think they're going to ever buy into it?
Because it can expose them.
Yeah, I made the same kind of proposal.
No, that's the reason, right?
They say that's why I never do it.
But back when Obama was looking at putting new regulations on the NSA and how they handle data and really on the whole government, we sent the same proposal in to him back then, or the same kind of components to do.
And at the time, he picked up one of our recommendations.
That was stay within two degrees of a separation from a, in a relational graph or social network, within a known backup.
But he didn't adopt the criteria, the other criteria that had to go with that to make sure you didn't pull in everybody else on the planet.
And that was you don't go through on the second half.
You do not go through a company or a government or a department of the government.
Because at that point, you can pull in everybody on the planet because just take the example, Google example.
If you go, if you're a target, you go to Google.
And then on the same day, at least a billion people in the world go to Google also.
So they're the second hop away.
The next day, it'll be another billion, but maybe not the same.
And eventually within four days, you got everybody in the planet.
That's why at the time, NSA and all of them, CIA, they were all happy that that was really the way the president went.
Without the restrictions on that, don't go through a government or commercial industry.
He took those off and just said, stay within two degrees.
That meant that everybody in the planet was eligible for collection.
I think that's a good point.
That wasn't look, that wasn't a bug.
That was the peach up.
That's why they liked it.
Yeah, that's why they liked it.
Yeah.
Well, I'm so glad we caught up today.
I'm always delighted with our conversations.
Even when we disagree, I learn things from both of you.
And I'm just delighted where you're continuing these events.
So we'll have more to say, no doubt, about.
Charlie Kirk and what's going on.
There are events taking place in the Middle East.
I'm being told that if pan out, are going to be very significant, maybe change the complexion of situation there or bring about World War III.
So that on my shows now, I'm saying, even though everyone knows I'm an agnostic, God willing, we'll be back again and do it all over again.
And I feel the same way.
I mean, the situation we're in in the world today is so fraught with hazard.
Bill Benny, Catherine Horton, I cannot thank you enough.
This is Jim Fetzer, your host on a real deal special.
Bill Benny and Catherine Horton under fire.
Back again next week.
God willing.
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