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Sept. 22, 2025 - Jim Fetzer
55:02
Real Deal Special (17 September 2025): Katherine Horton & Bill Binney UNDER FIRE!
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Okay.
This is Jim Fetzer, your host with a real deal special bi-weekly conversation with Catherine Norton and Bill Benny.
It's always such a delight.
We got a few uh wires crossed today, no problem.
How are the two of you doing?
Hanging in there at best, I would say.
I'm getting that from a lot of friends these days hanging in there day by day.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think the background is that um the general torture and insanity has expanded.
I I was involved in something to do with our local community fighting some corruption.
And I was retaliated against for just talking to our local police.
And I came home, I was gunned by the drone that's above our house in our in our backyard, such that I my my foot was gunned.
I just went out with our dogs and I was sitting in the sun.
And uh at some point I had I felt this battering sensation on my foot, and sure enough, that was a drone gunning, like rapid fire impacts, and I was left with uh I don't know, four inch bruce.
Nice big bruise.
Yeah.
So um we're now at a stage where total mass surveillance is entirely interfaced with drones, you know, shooting you in retaliation for whatever you do politically or not even politically, just trying to tidy up, you know.
Local corruption.
How awful.
Yeah.
So it's um I sent you some videos about uh Charlie Kirk uh shooting of it.
I didn't know if you had a chance to look at him or if you continue to have the same view, or I just want to get an update.
Whatever you think about what's going on here, what's your assessment?
I haven't seen the videos, but I've done some research in some of the videos.
The um the the one question I have a burning question about the guy who was arrested.
Somebody sent me a post on uh true social that he's a known crisis actor.
Did you know about the guy?
Yeah, he was involved in that three different events, he had some to do with 901.
Yeah, of course he was here claiming he had done it, and he clearly hadn't done it, and it was a diversion.
And what was the other Boston bombing?
Yeah, something like that.
But it was I it was several of these false flag operations I knew you had analyzed in details.
I was wondering the guy from from your previous work.
Yeah.
I I don't know if I'd run across him before to our truth.
This is a very curious thing.
Yeah, but clearly he was a diversion of some bizarre.
And the story, of course, about the suspect is getting more and more bizarre.
They had a lot of glitches when they put the thing together.
He's wearing different clothing, so they claimed, yeah, he changes clothes on the roof, and then he changes clothes back.
The weapon, he doesn't seem to be carrying a weapon when he's running across the roof, so where's the whole?
And they say, Oh, well, he disassembled it, put it in his bank, half of it in his trousers, and I'm pointing out if you had a steel barrel in your trouser when you jumped off the roof, you might puncture your intestines, kill yourself, idiotic.
Then they claim he put it back together with a web and a maus or can be this sample, but it requires a special wrench and a lot of torque.
I don't think this little kid could have even done it.
Was he doesn't appear to have any experience with firearms?
We got a photograph of him with a BB gun when he was a kid.
That's it.
That's it.
And then what's what's interesting is that George Webb.
So I don't know anything about it.
I didn't have time to follow it up.
And I also have to say I've lost interest as soon as I see a whiff of the FBI nonsense.
I just, you know, Charlie Crack is dead, and we know who've done it.
It was the intelligence agencies, and I don't need to be handy on that.
But George Webb did some uh analysis, and he figured out figured out that this kid's uncle, uh Mickey Robinson, Michael Robinson, just so happens, just so happens to be a special ops guy, right?
Who was involved in Ukraine?
I mean, what other chances that he was running free Ukraine radio?
Oh, he also um was supervising the building of the infectious disease surveillance system for the CBC.
You know, I mean, this is just pure coincidence.
And then, of course, there was the one, I think at first it was rumored to be a hundred thousand dollars of reward money for you know any information about the shooter, which of course the family would have cashed in.
And then Candace Owens was saying that actually uh well was it?
Bill Ackman put up a million dollars for finding the shooter.
So when you know, when this kid was turned in, the family got a million dollars, you know, a bit like Sandy Hope parents.
Yeah, yeah.
You know?
They have to drive right in front of God and everybody.
We'll give you a million bucks if you have your kid play this phony role as a shooter, and then of course we'll get him off.
Watch the uh the attorney for the county lay out in great detail, all the evidence they had, including his impression from lying in wait on the top of the roof, that they had his fingerprints on the gun, detailed about his relationship with his boyfriend who was somehow his roommate who's a biological male but is transitioning to their dating.
I mean, it is a ludicrous.
It is not any, not just any old person transitioning, he's also part of the furry community that they are pushing.
Now, the back background story to the furry community, which I think is important to mention, a long, long time ago, before I came to the US, I said now that they are imploding the classical control files, so it's not really a control file anymore to take drugs.
I mean, that's just a congressman, right?
Not a control file to board with prostitutes, that's just another Wednesday afternoon in VC, you know, bit by bit, they don't have many more control files left.
And it really just means three.
One of them is murder, second one is uh necrophilia, which is a thing, Jimmy Savile was one, and festivality, all right.
And then, of course, pedophilia, sorry, of course, right?
So all of these tie into murder because murder's type of them.
And now we have the pedophile agenda being rolled out.
We have this weird sex, you know, swapping back and forth, and they have the icon of battle main, which is both male and female.
So we have that, but in the bestiality category, we now have out of nowhere this ferry movement, and you know, one of the bullets was encased with uh basically uh a kind of like a lewd joke about having an erection in one of these ferry costumes, so the the bullet casings came with little inscriptions as well in this bullshit spectacle.
Oh, yes, the shell casing, thank you.
To do that or the ability to do it, I mean it's just fantasy.
It is such blatant bullshit.
How could anybody believe any of this?
I I don't know, but what really kind of um freaks me out that out of those three engravings, two seem to be the chow bella seems to fit Melania, and uh catch uh this fascist or fascist catch this seem to fit Donald Trump because they keep calling him a fascist.
So the way I read it is that it was cartel signaling and it was the uh Intel agency saying he's got a bullet for Trump and Melania.
That's that's the thing.
And also, if you noticed on the on the engravings, um the first one, the the uh a fascist catch catch this, it was followed by up arrow, right arrow, and three down arrows.
Well, up arrow and then down arrow is somebody maybe getting shot, you know, upstanding upright, standing flat, down arrow, then being buried, but the last symbol was repeated three times.
Now, on the other case, the engraving was oh um bella chow, bella, chow chow chow.
So chow was repeated three times.
So we've got three things, right, repeated on both.
We've got three, three, Masonic 33.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just like in the kill order by James Covey, just like with the you know the Ace of Stage announcement for Butler.
So on our head that is I can drive the hair.
The real thing I think is it was this was a death threat against Donald Trump and this asked lady.
I think that was my take-home message.
Barron and Barron is the third.
Yes, well, yeah, Barron.
I I'm not sure if he's got anything to do with it, but I found other chatter, deep state chatter that also seemed to be a threat against Barron.
So yeah, it's the first family.
And it would make sense.
I mean, I think on a previous show I said that I could see um the deep state moving in on Trump by attacking first the outer uh periphery, you know, uh Trump supporters, then people who would actually be meeting Trump, then it was Alex Brusovich who collapsed on stage in December.
That was Team Trump.
Then I think Christy Noah had an allergic reaction, Pam Bondi's uh cornea detached, these weird medical incidents, and then Giuliani had this car accident, still being tortured, right?
Yes, but that's yeah, you are so building in a lot of pain by the more things.
I could tell.
And um, but anyway, the point it's probably because of what I'm saying, because my point was my point was that they then attacked the appointees of Donald Trump, I would say.
I have never heard of somebody's cornea who spontaneously detaching.
Sounds like a pulse energy projectile shot to the eye, as I said before.
Then we had the Giuliani car accident, which to me looked like a classical hit.
Everything about it was something I've seen before myself, even including to what people told me where the accident happened, which was the right after the slip road.
So the intelligence agencies can just go off to the side, they can see the symptom, and it's really easy to time it so that you can catch up with the car and be the hit at the particular segment of the road where you want to do it.
So everything looked like a hit with the Giuliani incident on Saturday, and then on Wednesday, Charlie Kirk was murdered, and we have those creepy ass engravings on the on the casings.
So to me, it looked like it's first the supporters, then Team Trump, then the appointees, then a good friend like Giuliani who's known him for a long time, then a good friend like Charlie Kerr, who's known him, but also was a major contributor to him getting re-elected.
Turning point America was a big thing.
So now who's next?
Is it gonna be a family member?
Is it somebody who works very closely with Trump, like the press secretary, Caroline Leavett, or somebody else, you know, really called to the operation, very public face, or is it gonna be a family member named Trump himself?
So with all this, I stopped ignoring all the bullshit around the Charlie Clark murder.
I do believe he's genuinely dead.
I I really do.
And I I saw what you said about the the wife Erica having this big G ring.
Look, sometimes they kill Masons, all right.
They kill Masons too.
Um, if they were Masons and she was advertising she chose in the club could be, it could also be an innocent ring, meaning something else.
I would have to have no data.
Also, women are not really in the Mason, so it will have to be the Eastern Star, and they have slightly different symbols.
So not sure about that one, but I'm pretty sure Charlie Kirk is dead.
And what really worries me is that it was gosh, yeah.
If that this was the final warning, the final stop before the intelligence agencies attacked Trump's family.
That's it's fascinating.
I wondered if you were still convinced that he's actually dead, because I've got increasing evidence that it was all a stage event.
I mean, a lot of it.
Yeah, you know the first video you showed us um the day he died where the ring moves, I think that was CGI tampering.
Since then I was trying to corroborate it.
There's other footage that where that doesn't happen, you know, where the ring pops from the ring ticker down.
Um then people were questioning the the thing about his t-shirt rising.
Um, and I am convinced that that is an artifact of um of the vacuum being created by a supersonic bullet.
So when you have a supersonic bullet zipping past, um, sometimes if the conditions are right, you can even see a cavitation trap.
So that's kind of like the either white note or just uh it looks like uh, you know, like a mirage has this like uh rotry shimmer.
That is the vacuum, um vacuum being created and water not being dissolved in air anymore, so it condenses into droplets.
Um it's only a very short temporary effect.
Uh but that vacuum also creates a suction.
So if you like some trailing winds, you know, that would suck up anything that's loose.
It's the t shirt, you know, in in the motion.
So for me, actually, that the t shirt rising was an indication of where the theme line was, because the t shirt would be sucked up to maybe the lower, even all the way up to a trap of the bullet.
And it would go on his neck, and when the t-shirt's top peak was, you can yeah, you can do at least a plane back.
You know, it might look at being pulled all the way up to the track, you never know.
But it's that if you have two points defining a plane of where the bullet came from, and that points away from the guy, they some videos were alleging that he just folded his arms and shot Charlie, but I can't see the gun.
And also shooting somebody while you have your back turned, it's not easy, but it can be done.
It can be done.
You can have a uh a camera on the gun in principle, and he's Google Glass even to program it to see where you're pointing.
It can be done.
Not a problem.
I think even I can program it with a bit of time.
But it's the other thing was that it didn't match the impact, the shock wave, it didn't match the crowd reaction because the bullet was hurt also on the uh, I mean, it was it went past the microphone.
But if you shoot somebody from that close range and the woman next to the sky was holding his arms, he wasn't reacting, you know.
So I think somebody would have reacted to a close-by gunshot.
And I I think you see that.
But my problem is we don't have Chain of Custody finance the footage we're watching.
We're reliant on no-name accounts.
What I love in the buttons vaccination attempt is that uh Josh Hawley published the body camp footage of the police officers.
That's how I could actually track reliably the woman on horseback if Butler.
It was an actual legit footage, you know, published by Josh Rollins from the police body camp.
Well, what that's what, right?
But now I just see editors footage being thrown around, and what I can really see is to be intel agencies are doing their utmost to murky the motives.
And in a sense, that's all we need to know who's involved, right?
Well, I had this fascinating transformation from Friday where I was laying out on my show how it had been a Mossad shooter and all the reasons, and the reasons are all totally valid.
But then I did a huge amount of work over the weekend and did a marathon two hours with uh law enforcement guy with over 25 years of experience with a woman with uh screen actor guild credits and with uh a guy who's an engineer.
And we uh pretty much uh established what I thought was uh conclusive case for fakery, faking uh that the blood isn't where the blood ought to be.
Uh he holds a microphone too long, uh, his eyes should have been open rather than shot.
When he's carried off the stage, there's no blood.
He's got white sneakers on, there's not a drop of blood on the sneakers.
They put him in the SUV.
If he were actually dead, be a crime scene, a murder scene, you ought to clear the area, secure it.
None of that was done.
Instead, they took it down.
They took it down.
And of course, I've heard this suggest, well, that's what Mossad would do.
You know, they take it down to destroy all the evidence.
But I'm inclined to think the following that Charlie became convinced that they were unhappy enough with him to kill him.
They actually offered him a hundred and fifty million dollar bribe.
They said we'll give you 150 more for turning point.
If you will be more emphatic in the support of Israel over the genocide and uh bombing Iran, he was at a in the hamstead, they had a kind of an intervention with him with several of the strongest proponents of Israel who are financing turning point, and they were yelling and screaming at him.
I mean, they were really berating him for allowing a guy, I guess his name is David Smith, but also Tucker Carlson to come on and to talk about genocide, you know, being wrong, being mildly very mildly critical of Israel.
He himself Had uh actually gone on shows and talked about how he'd been in Israel, he visited the fence.
There's no way the official narrative added up to him, and that it's not anti-Semitic or un-American to raise questions.
I think BB was shitting bricks over that.
And he was also, you know, saying he told Trump directly to his face he thought bombing Iran was a bad idea.
He's he's saying how he's now reconsidering U.S. support for genocide.
It turns out polling for Gen Z. The group really he's orchestrating or organizing is 65% in support of Hamas.
Uh, they want to get a more reliable guy in there.
Ben Shapiro is supposed to take over.
He says Zionist zealot, if ever there were one.
Uh I mean, all the way the pieces fit together, he turned down the 150 mil.
And he was confiding in Candace Owens, and she's talked about this and in Tucker, that he was his views were changing about Israel.
Early on, he'd been very much a proponent, but he was wandering off the z the reservation, the Zionist reservation.
And I I think for sure there wasn't a plan to kill him, but he he got word.
See, my take is this is Butler 2.0 that there was actual plot to shoot Trump in Butler, but he got wind of the script and flipped the script.
And he had the the guy, the same guy who was there when he was shaking his fist, was with Charlie in office.
I saw the video, but it's that's not Sean Curran.
Sean Curran is now the uh Secret Service guy.
And I know for a fact that's not Sean Curren, because Sean Curran is left-handed.
The guy who's standing behind him is right-handed.
I know the one you mean.
The only the only thing that's in common is that they're both tall, sporty, and have the same shape of sunglasses.
But I guarantee you it's not Sean Burley.
In every footage, every footage I've ever seen of Sean Current, I swear he's left-handed.
That guy is I'm 100% sure of his right-handed.
There's no way that's what I'm saying to people.
Let me see if I can find it and share it.
I I know the one you mean.
I've seen two versions of the video.
The very first one is high resolution, cell zone grade.
The other one is um is a low resolution where they made him look more like Sean Furron, and it's really down to the glasses and the jawline.
But it's uh, you know, masculine jawline, you know, somebody who looks jacked because they're private security secret service and the same glasses, and that's the only the only connection that I could see.
Okay, let me see what I can do here.
Let me pull up.
I think I have it.
I've got I've got this as um let me view it.
Is this yeah, I that's the one.
I can I can see it.
Uh you're seeing who I'm talking about.
Let me go through a little bit of this.
This is about the shooter jumping off the roof.
You know, this is just ridiculous if you ask him.
Did they modify the footage?
Because I swear the first time around there was no gun.
And then people said, What is this bullshit with the gun?
And then suddenly he has a gun that he's like.
He doesn't, he doesn't have a gun here.
They're claiming he disassembled it and he's got half in the bag and half in his trouser.
The barrel.
This thing in his right hand.
That that's the gun.
Oh, it's he's got the bag.
There's no the claim is barrel is in his trousers, which I say would be insane to jump down like that because it would penetrate your body.
Here's my problem with this whole thing.
Okay.
Yeah.
This is, I mean, this is a building where you could just go on Google Maps and see like a dozen CC TV cameras.
He must have gone past.
Not just the this is taken from the building across the cost.
Catherine, I don't need I don't even think it was taken the same day.
You don't have all the popular people there everywhere.
It's deserted.
This was taken on a different day to be introduced here.
Yeah, I I can I can completely see that.
I will have to do some background check, but yes, yes, I could totally see that.
My question is, why are we being shown CCTV from another building in Thai?
I think this is the engineering department, if I'm not mistaken, that has the CCTV camera up next to this big ass uh cell tower they have this dish, microwave dish.
But where's the C C T V from inside the building that shows the movie that shows them moving?
Yeah.
First, I said, where the where the F is the CCTV, and then they've released a still image.
And I said, Well, that's nice, but how about to release the actual moving footage?
Because people recognize others both by body movement and then face.
When you see somebody looking down the other side of the street and a uh, you know, distance away, you don't see their face, but you recognize their body shape and movement.
That's how people recognize others.
If if there's a manhunt, it's idiotic not to remove uh, you know, release CCTV footage.
And then they came up with this piece of shit.
What about the stuff inside the building where he's going out all to this to the loop, you know?
They're just a still image.
They're saying we're not going crazy with conspiracy theories over Charlie.
This I think is now wrong.
I originally you seem to see the pack here, uh, the bug blood pack of the back, and he's got uh back off the channel squirt, but the blood is coming out the front, you know, it's not coming out the back of his neck.
Here's here I don't know if you've seen this.
I love your your take on this.
Not counting game violence.
Oh I think we stopped right there before when we talked start talking about this.
That's what we I don't know.
I to me this looks pretty legit.
Like what exactly was wrong with all this?
Because uh is this I don't know.
I'm recording.
I'll call you back.
Sorry about that.
Keep going, keep going, Catherine.
Yeah, I just um basically I I um the the shot, the impact of the body is exactly what you would expect that you suddenly impact that the movable, you know, the the connection here, the neck between the head and the chest.
That's exactly the sort of backward movement you would expect.
That's consistent.
Then the blood pouring out with an artery shot, that's exactly what looks what it looks like.
Umright red, I've been concerned that it appears to be dark, not and not bright, but yeah, that could be also you know the the color, because when you look at the video, you had a scene just before you see the sky is a really bright uh you know red baseball cap that's in the sun.
So the camera is in the sun and it's filming something that's under the tent in darkness, and sometimes you have color, you know, um that the any cell phone camera does try to be corrections, and these corrections end up being color dislocation sometimes.
So it might or might not be the mobile the the bullet hole moving around.
It turns out the letters on his shirt also move around.
We got the ring.
I I think you may have already addressed that, but here you have on his ring finger.
Here you have it on his pinky, and he's still microphone.
Do you think it makes sense he's still holding the microphone?
Well, under under sudden impact, the the reflexes to type in the hands.
You can see that in babies when you when you drop them, you know.
Sometimes they just if they're holding something, they will hold on to your finger.
That's a reflex to hold on to whatever you're holding.
By the way, that's also something's terrifying happens, or somebody holds a gun with a finger on the trigger.
That's usually what causes an MD, this uh gripping reflex.
But um uh the thing is, my problem with this footage is the chain of custody.
Oh, sure.
It's so easy for the Intel agencies to say, Hey, look, there's all these discrepancies, you know, because somebody showed me the footage and asked me about the rising t-shirt, and I have to say, well, the ring is clearly bullshit.
Somebody's CGI T has some stuff.
Was is the rest also CGI?
I can't tell.
So I've got a video actually, I'm gonna share it another showing him being carried to the SUV, and you can see his his his sneakers, which are perfectly white, there's no blood on them whatsoever.
I mean, that seems very, very odd.
Here's the guy.
This is the one you say not the same.
Definitely.
I you know, and people now with these two side by side things can see why, but it's uh a hundred percent.
The guy on the uh the left, it's right-handed, 100% sure.
You can even see his right hand in front of his left.
That's his dominant hand.
If you see the footage, I I try to track it to definitely right-handed.
And Sean Current is the 100% left-handed.
I am a hundred percent sure.
This this guy is left-handed.
That guy's left-handed, this guy on the left is right-handed, whoever the guy, the guy on the left is private security, the guy on the right is now uh Secret Service Director Sean Kurr.
Yeah, very interesting.
And you got his wife who's uh really unbelievable.
I want to think the first responders who struggled heroically, but heroically to save Charles' life.
She does a lot of police who acted bravely to make sure that there were no other victims on that terrible afternoon.
More than that.
I want to think the first responders who struggled.
Catherine is a mannequin, she's praising rubber hand.
I love you.
I love you.
I know.
And look you so much.
Just me.
Oh goodness you.
They criticize her issuing another motion.
They don't actually show the face here because it's it's not him.
You know, they're there's the house.
Say say whatever you'd like.
Yeah.
Now, was the yeah, again, good God.
I mean, that that is my problem at all of this.
You know, I, as a scientist, I like my data clean and bullshit free.
And I will work overtime to make sure data integrity for you and me are the very first thing before you even get to work, right?
Now, of course, you have contaminations in the data, and then when you deal with the human sphere, there's so much more to consider.
Maybe they wanted this footage because remember, she's an influencer, she is a celebrity in her own right.
She is also no stranger to getting clicks and you know, putting on a publicity stunt.
If there was some sort of agreement or some handlers talked her into, hey, you really need this footage, and he'll be great for turning point America.
But she says, Look, I really don't want to, you know, uh hug the dead body of my husband live on camera.
I just don't.
I find it disrespectful and turn it into a photo shoot, which I can also understand.
Then they would say, okay, we'll just pretend it's it, and we'll put in a mannequin.
So, you know, these these like publicity stunts are so far removed from and the other thing is I can't see her face.
I can't read microexpressions.
Is that genuine grief or is this a big show?
You know, is that even the same woman?
Heck knows, right?
I can only see her, her hair looks slightly different.
Um I have no idea.
So, you know, God, this is what's so revolting, and we wouldn't even have to do any of this.
If any one of us three had even a shade of uh confidence in the SBI investigation, and the fact that none of us do is really more telling than any of these video pieces, you know.
FBI has become a joke, a complete joke.
Bill, I don't know if you want to offer any opinions about the Charlie Kirk shooting.
I just think the guy was nothing but promoting uh good and conversation between people who had different opinions, and he was open to anybody's objection to anything he was saying, and he didn't put them down for their objections, you know.
It just uh just inconceivable to me how anybody could object to that kind of person of that kind of philosophy.
Yeah, I think it's all very it's all very disturbing.
It's just uh I and I personally think it's a function of what's been pushed by the left, calling everybody that's associated with Trump or anybody that's a conservative calling them racists and all kinds of names over and over again, and then media helped that along all over the media.
I mean, this kind of crap is a part of the softest school of how you win an argument and in the ugliest way.
And it's created this environment where people and you should show that to the population.
Now, some fraction of them are going to be so disturbed by what they're being said that they're liable to do something, which is what the case is here, in my opinion.
In my view, anyway.
Yeah, I so I don't for second believe that some radicalized little kid that has, you know, oh my god, it's not just gay, there's also the trans agenda and fairy slash bestiality light agenda mixed in.
It's just too many agenda tick boxes, you know.
What are the chances when they recruit these assassins?
We they go see like a DI hiring list, and you have to be literally like a black lesbian with Jewish and you know, an estimole from an ethnic minority.
I mean, what the uh, you know, mad people seem to be just taking new agenda so wonderfully.
I don't believe a word of it.
So I don't believe for a second, not the nanosecond that the assassin was any of that, like with radicalized kids.
Was the kid on the roof the shooter?
I couldn't think so.
Much more likely, I think Uncle Mickey's special ops guys were the guys, or maybe Uncle Mickey himself was the guy who got hired, but certainly he's got some contact in his special ops community who could actually take a shot in this time to once, not fuck it up from the point of view of the deep state, right?
I still think that Butler shooting was legit.
I still think Giuliani that was an actual hit and he survived by a miracle, just like Trump did.
And the third time around, somebody said, Look, this time please hire a professional.
Don't hire some young little bomb maker, CI bomb maker to take a hot shot.
Don't hire some young woman to try to pull the pit maneuver on Giuliani this time.
Please hire a dude with some experience who can take a shot.
And this guy took a shot and hit his neck artery perfectly.
So hitting the neck artery is you want to make sure the guy beats out before he reaches hospital.
And that's what I see.
The shot was taken by somebody actually professional, somebody psychopathic, and somebody who has proven his merit several times to the cartel.
Otherwise, they wouldn't have hired him.
So my profiling lands me with a special upscale and maybe proven it proven his uh you know metal in battle recently.
So from an active war zone from a recent war zone, where he shot people as a sniper, and he has a body count that's not quite out of date, and people trusted him that he can still take a shot to anything from 200 yards away, or how however many yards away, because it wouldn't be somewhere else, right?
So that is who I'm looking for if I'm running a professional investigation.
I'm not looking for some college kid whose boyfriend wears a fairy costume.
You know, so my money is more on Uncle Mickey than this kid and his you know boyfriend and his Discord chat.
Fuck's sake.
I mean, discord.
Really, who the hell still needs this?
It's just absurd, just completely a fairy tale.
There's no plausibility whatsoever.
Bill, you want an ad.
Yeah.
No, I just think the whole thing is a it just shows you the extent of what this country becomes so divided and so divisive internal.
The country was this is really a uh cancer growing on our whole social network.
I mean, it's just it's just uh inconceivable to me that people would just kill people because of the positive things they're trying to do, and have a conversation.
What kind of what kind of a society are we when we do that?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I guess this is where we differ.
I mean, I guess what you really mean is the radicalization after that.
Yeah, because I don't think for it.
Yeah, and before it because the thing is, I don't think anybody can anybody's actually breath that money to claim, oh, it's radicalization to that and this assassination attempt.
No, professionally, my opinion is the intelligence agencies led to this assassination, and it's the final warning to Trump to fall in line.
That's it.
And it follows the microwaving off the eyes of Colorado.
Rallygoers, the uh what's his name?
Um Gottlieb.
Uh the the NYC Delhi owner Gottlieb died the night before um Trump was due to meet him.
I think that was a warning.
That was actually the day when I sent the first letter to Trump and he died a few hours later.
Then Alex Kruzovitch collapsing, you know, all this stuff that I listed, Giuliani Charlie Kirk, it's all the intelligence agencies, and it just goes boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, coming ever closer to Trump.
So for me, Charlie Kirk was nothing to do with the radicalization, that's a cover story, and has everything to do with this, you know, downward slope, uh owning in on a target bowl coming ever closer to the main target.
And um, so but to actually pick up your point, it is being weaponized.
The whole thing against Charlie Kirk was weaponized in the media.
So for me, the absolute best upshot was that people started talking about bringing back the Smiths Mund Act to one that outlook propaganda, and they suggested calling the new incarnation of it the Charlie Crack Act.
So that for me is taking bullshit and turning it into gold.
Actually, was that Charlie Kirk Act was uh restore the Smith Mutt Act in 1948?
Yeah, I think yeah, that was his proposal.
Which which Obama modernized in 2012 just in time to bring a Sandy Hook as the Smith Act precluded the use of the same kind of propaganda being used abroad, staged event, paid riots and all that from being used within the United States.
He made it legal to Sandy Hook, Boston bombing, oh Parkland, the line, the list goes on and on.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And I think that is the best upshot.
And um, you know, oh gosh, to go back to original point.
If Charlie Kirk is still alive, I I don't believe it, but if he is great, because then two kids still have that dad, but I rather doubt it.
Yeah, that's that's how I think it evolved.
The guy has a great deal of encouragement integrity.
He was rejecting the silver, he knew he was then confronting the lead, and he he figured out a way to circumvent it.
And I think it was with Trump's help because my interpretation of Butler's that was also a staged event.
I know we disagree.
What I think we both agree is either way with Charlie Kirk, it has the benefit of making Israel and Zionism a focus of attention, and people are outraged, outraged.
I I think it's been ironic, since that was his organization, a turning point in relation to how the world views Israel.
I I think that this is uh, you know, a bridge too far, the the straw that broke the camel's back.
I think this was it.
I think this was it.
And even if it turns out to have been age, there's no going back on the Israeli genocide bombing of Iran, uh October 7th and all that State of the Union had a list of event after event where Israel had been affecting our history by killing our leaders, you know, involved in one after another.
And I'm having a hard time denying it.
I mean, you know, I think the outrage is real and will be enduring.
Well, I mean, one of the things they never answered up for is the USS Liberty ship.
Yeah, for example.
You know, you know, I had I had an opportunity to be on that ship.
Yeah, I had an opportunity to be on that USS Liberty.
And I turned it down because uh I was stationed at I was in the US Army at the time, Army Security Agency.
Well, I was doing uh second operations in uh in Turkey.
Yeah.
And uh that that site was tasked to provide an analyst for the ship, right?
And uh so the uh NCOIC of the analytics shop came up to me and said, How would you like to take a boat ride in the Mediterranean?
And I said, hmm.
I said thank you, but no, thank you.
Because number one, I'm not in a navy, number two, I don't tread water very well, and number three, I've got orders to go back to NSA in the States.
So thank you, but no, thank you.
Those are three pretty good reasons.
Fortunately, I did that.
Otherwise, you know, they just murdered our people for no reason whatsoever.
Well, Lyndon was all in either we're blaming it on the Egypt, you know, it was gonna nuke Cairo.
It was that bad.
It was that bad.
That was the plan.
Well, I mean, it was all up whenever and then Johnson, another you know what he did after that.
I mean, the the the naval commander and uh the admiral and in the med ordered uh you know, f uhors off the ships to go, I think we're floors, go get air cover to the ship.
And while they were in flight two to get protection to the ship, Johnson called them in and said, take them back.
We don't want to embarrass our ally.
That's right.
I mean, give me a break.
So what 34 of our guys died and 170 were wounded or something like that?
That's right, that's right.
That's right.
That's right.
No, Lyndon wanted the ship at the bottom of the Mediterranean.
He did get rid of the evidence.
But then see, he initiated a plot to take out JFK for crying out loud.
This is a bad dude.
Yeah.
One of many.
Well, then he went on to stir up Vietnam and send a half a million guys over there to get killed and kill people.
Yeah, that was a million and some people died because of that, thanks to him.
I think I think going forward, the message from all of this, I what I really want people to start doing is spot the pattern behind all these guys, because they're all part of the same secret society, they gave go to all the same rituals, they actually behind the scenes, Mossad and British intelligence and the CIA one club, they exchange personnel, they do rotation, you know.
So it's it's not as different as we think.
And at the end of the day, I also when people were about to Israel, it means different things, different people, because to the Jewish people, it's their homeland.
But really, first and foremost, I believe it's the private speed and off the cross jobs.
The people who run these central banks and the currencies and do, you know, the local shit fuckery, uh, where we always end up as the schmucks.
So it's not really about the homeland of the Jewish people when I we have to be about it, and I'm talking about it.
It's about the HQ of one of the crime families who are running the country.
You know, that's really, and it's their tentacles worldwide.
That that's the continuous misunderstanding that I see.
I mean, nobody would object to a homeland for the Jewish people, but then a homeland for the Jewish people wouldn't have you know designs on screwing over everybody else to be, you know, and among their neighbors.
So I think we should all focus on international organized crime and white collar organized crime and try to spot the networks that all these bad actors are thought of.
And speaking about that, yes, I've been pushing out on truth social the way and means to do it.
We've discussed that on your your program here before several weeks ago.
And I've been pushing that out there saying if you really here's how to do it.
I even listed out all the steps, what you have to do uh to be able to get to that point.
And and and also some of the protections that were built in that they took out, Bush, Haney, Cheney, Hayden, and Tenet took them out.
And Obama kept them out, and they're it just kept growing because they saw the power in this thing.
And I think uh uh Diane Burke said at one point, Hayden said, you know, this thing just gets better as time goes on.
Well, that was the whole design of it.
The more information you have, the better, not the worse.
You know, it doesn't bury you the way we did it.
So I mean, and we said, here's how you can manage massive amounts of data and do it right and catch and get intentions and capabilities and threats before they happen, not after, because what they're doing now is all after the fact.
Well, that's a forensic job.
That's a police job, it's not intelligence, you know.
No, I mean, that means they're all not, they're all not doing intelligence anymore.
They're just saying, oh, we've got a lot of data, so if somebody kills somebody, we can go get them.
You know, well, why the hell don't you get them beforehand?
Well, you know, because it doesn't, if you do it the right way, you don't have power over innocent people.
You don't have power over everybody.
We don't have power over governments or parliaments, kings, queens, whatever they are, you know, or dictators.
We don't have power over anybody.
Well, dictators you might, because you'd be targeting them.
But anybody you don't target, which is the vast majority of the population of the planet, you have no power over.
And that's really what they want.
It's really crowd control and population management.
That's what's going on.
Also known as slavery.
I like both of your assessment on the effects of all this, because I think Wheeler's stage is going to have the same effects.
And I think they're all very good at emancipating and liberating thought.
And I think that's why Charlie Kirk is gonna be remembered for having made a difference by opening the minds to the possibility Israel really is as evil as malevolent as we know it to be.
Those of us who have followed its history is outrageous.
So I I'd love to get your reflections on how you think this is gonna affect the world up here.
Well, I that's why I that's why I was discussing with you about this having something to talk about logic, how to think what's a fact, you know, how you recognize what's real and what isn't.
That's a good thing.
That's an important thing because I think logical thinking isn't taught anymore.
There's no that I can see anyway in our educational system.
Yeah, they don't tell people to teach the kids how to think or just get them to even consciously begin to question things.
That's how you start to think, you question things.
Yes.
Well, yeah.
You know, I don't see that happening even now.
That's why I'm I'm all for getting rid of the educational department in the co in the Washington.
You push it down to local where people are concerned about reading, writing, and arithmetic and things like that, you know, the basic and how think and how to do things.
Um we've gotten away from that.
That's why we've outsourced everything, right?
Because A, we got slave labor overseas, and B, we can dumb down the population by doing that.
Yes.
Yes, yes.
Excellent.
Catherine, your thoughts.
I think um I I hope just as much as uh, you know, the evil agenda of the Rothschild's private feature, but that's how I would like to refer to it, because you know, the the aspect that's the homeland of the Jewish people is a is a laudable thing,
and that we have to detach it that the evil parts, the you know, the military being called back perfectly timed on October 7th to facilitate certain things, kicking off them, facilitate other things that end in genocide.
That element has nothing to do with the homeland of the Jewish people, it has very much to do with globalist crime, right?
Globalist crime syndicates.
And I want to detach the two, and if we can move beyond the Israel label to what is the bit that's organized crime, and what is an experiment to create the homeland for the Jewish people, right?
So the two are separate, and I am only concerned with the organized crime element because it has tentacles to the United States and Europe, and because I believe that those are the people who want to kill President Trump next time.
I think those are the people who control the intelligence agencies, and for me, going forward, I hope that there's so much bullshit with the murder of uh Charlie Kerr that this time round the people make up just how much bullshit the so-called investigation of the HPI actually is.
It's just a theater play covering our ludicrous childish nonsense.
And I hope that that will lead to some crisis at the FBI that will out all the people who pulled this off and all the false like operations, and are doing the forged antargeting program that we are under, and then we could return to actual some some law enforcement agency of integrity at the federal level.
That's my hope.
That we use this, we turn shit to gold, and we use this gynomus departful, you know, maybe a murder, maybe a staged event.
I hope I know basically where life have a break, but I'm afraid it's probably dead.
But either way, we have to turn the situation we cannot help anymore and return shit to gold.
Also, there's a public debate about what is your opinion and what is you know appealing for somebody to be murdered.
This latter is illegal, you know.
So uh to and also what is general human decency where a young father of two children, whatever his opinions has been loosening murdered in a public penal setting that you don't gloat about that, you know.
So all these discussions are now taking place.
Also, what's acceptable for secret service agents, can they gloat about the murder, somebody at private security, and just out of being on the wrong side of the two talks divide, can secret service agents publicly gloat about that?
You know, all of these discussions are happening in response to it.
And I think it's a good thing, it's long overdue, and that's all just handshake to go.
That's why I'm not gonna.
And there's a way to do that and make sure that make sure it can continue after Trump leaves off.
There's a way to do that too.
But nobody's thinking about it.
In fact, when I tried to propose that back in back in 1992, right?
Uh internally in NSA, they told me I was never going to do that program because it was too exposed, exposed everything.
And there's no way they could hide it, by the way.
If you make a money transfer in government, there's a record electronic record.
So you can automatically analyze all of that, and it you know, and keep it in real time.
I mean, I'm not talking about active attack, you know, a couple months later we come back and look at it.
No, I'm talking about within milliseconds, you can know what's going on.
Anyway, given you made this proposal for an integrity and government master plan that would be a hundred percent successful, and they've suppressed it since 1992.
Yeah, and that's over a 30 years.
Like I have maybe 33, ironically, 33 years of Mad Sonic.
That's right.
Do we have any reason to think they're gonna ever buy into it?
Because it can expose them.
Yeah, we I made the same kind of proposal, though.
That's the reason, right?
They say that's why I never do it.
But uh, back when Obama was uh looking at uh, you know, putting new regulations on NSA and how they handle data and really on the whole government.
Uh, we sent the same proposal in to him back then, or the same kind of components to do.
Um, and at the time, uh he picked up one of our recommendations that was stay within two degrees of a separation from a in a relational brass or social network within a known bad guy,
but he didn't adopt the criteria, the other criteria they had to go with that to make sure you didn't pull in everybody else on the planet, and that was you don't go through on the second hop, you do not go through a company or government or a department of a government.
Because at that point, you know, you can pull in everybody on the planet because just take the example, Google example.
If you go if you're a target and you go to Google, and then then on the same day, at least a billion people in the world go to Google also.
So they're the second hop away.
The next day it'll be another billion, but maybe not the same.
And eventually within three or four days, you got everybody on the planet.
That's why at the time, NSA and the uh and all of them CI, they were all happy that that was really the way the president went.
Without the restrictions on that, don't go through a government or commercial industry.
He took those off and just said stay within two degrees, that meant everybody on the planet was eligible for collection.
That wasn't look, that wasn't a bug.
That was a feature.
That's why they liked it.
Yeah, that's why they liked it.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I'm so glad we caught up today.
Uh I'm always delighted with our conversations, even When we disagree, I learn things from both of you, and I'm just delighted where you're continuing these events.
So we'll have more to say, no doubt, about Charlie Kirk and uh what's going on, their events taking place in the Middle East.
I'm being told that if Pan Out are going to be very significant, maybe change the complexion of the situation there or bring about World War III.
So that on my on my shows now I'm saying, even though everyone knows I'm an agnostic, God willing, you know, we'll be back again and do it all over again.
And I feel the same way.
I mean, the situation we're in in the world today is so fraught with hazard.
Bill Benny, Catherine Horton.
I cannot thank you enough.
This is Jim Fetzer, your host on a real deal special.
Bill Benny and Catherine Horton under fire.
Back again next week.
God willing.
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