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Sept. 22, 2025 - Jim Fetzer
01:03:59
Max Blumenthal: Charlie Kirk’s Story FALLS APART
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Hi, everybody.
Today's Saturday, September 20th, 2025, and our new friend, Max Blumenthal, is here.
Welcome, Max.
Great to be on the show, big fan.
Please subscribe and hit the like button to help us reaching more people.
Max, let's start with what has happened in the United States, the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the way that the Israeli government specifically, particularly Benjamin Netanyahu was reacting to what has happened in the United States.
What is his obsession with the case of Charlie Kirk?
Yeah, I've lost count of the amount of videos, the number of videos that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has released and the interviews that he has conducted specifically about Charlie Kirk since the conservative operative was killed on September 10th.
But Netanyahu immediately weighed in with prayers about Charlie Kirk just minutes after he was killed.
It was eerie.
His body was still warm, and Netanyahu was beginning to claim Charlie Kirk's legacy.
I've been writing about Charlie Kirk for 10 years now.
He was not just one of the most important conservative youth activists, he was also one of the most critical Gentile assets that the self-proclaimed Jewish state controlled inside the United States.
And he had started to move away from the Israeli line and specifically Netanyahu's line, and even uh entertained the possibility of publicly calling for Netanyahu to resign because he privately despised Netanyahu in the months before his death.
He was under enormous pressure from Zionist activists who are close to Netanyahu, basically Netanyahu's cutouts and the millionaires and billionaires that Netanyahu presides over inside the United States.
He was under enormous pressure to kind of fall back to stop providing a platform to Israel critics at his TP USA events, like Tucker Carlson or Marjorie Taylor Green.
And Charlie Kirk was resisting.
So Netanyahu sought to paper over all this history and this reality, which was mostly taking place in private, but which people who paid close attention to Charlie Kirk like me knew were take knew was taking place because of the public statements he was making, complaining about all of this Israel lobbying he was being subjected to, and why can't he care most about his own country and not this foreign country?
So Netanyahu seeks to bury that history and to make Charlie Kirk out to be the hero of Israel after his killing.
And he starts carrying conducting interviews on Fox about how much Charlie loved Israel.
Then he introduces a video on Twitter X. Netanyahu personally speaking to a camera about a letter Charlie had written him based on an invitation Netanyahu extended to Charlie Kirk two weeks before his death to visit Israel on a propaganda trip, which would have ostensibly been paid for by Israel.
And Netanyahu didn't say whether Charlie Kirk accepted his invitation.
The reason Netanyahu was doing this, just to answer your original question, was because Israel requires American, Christian, mostly conservative men to fight the war of Armageddon that Netanyahu wants against Iran.
Just as it required them to fight Israel, the war Israel wanted against Iraq.
And so they need to keep the MAGA base on their side, and Charlie Kirk would have been the perfect symbol for that.
And then the gray zone comes in and screws everything up because I had been talking to friends I knew of Charlie Kirk about this transformation he was experiencing in private.
And my article about that and how he personally detested Netanyahu was one of the most viral pieces we have ever published at the Gray Zone.
And I followed it up by exposing we broke the story at the Gray Zone by exposing the secret Summit that one of Netanyahu's top billionaire cutouts in the United States, Bill Ackman had convened in the Hamptons,
where basically Charlie Kirk was supposed to uh oversee a um influencer summit where influencers were going to be paid to generate millions of clicks and impressions for Israel, and everyone got invited on a propaganda tour to Israel.
This was not supposed to be known.
And what and the summit devolved into what was described to me by one attendee as a disaster when Bill Ackman, the billionaire donor close to Netanyahu started challenging and pressuring Charlie Kirk about his views on Israel.
And then another Zionist influencer, this young British lawyer who is one of the biggest Zionist thugs in London, trying to get every protester arrested.
Her name is Natasha Hausdorff, started screaming at Charlie Kirk.
And um, you know, when this got out there, Candace Owens, subsequent a former um TPUSA associate of Kirk, longtime friend of Charlie Kirk, subsequent to the publication of my article about that influencer summit, Candace Owens goes live and provides more details about the summit.
And from there, the entire Zionist world of big wigs and donors and operatives who are close to Netanyahu in the United States, launches goes into full meltdown mode and launches this all-out campaign to destroy Candace Owens' reputation.
Uh, you know, they're falsely claiming that uh the gray zone's funded by Iran.
They're trying everything they can to discredit this reporting.
And then finally, Netanyahu does another video where he comes out and announces on his own on the prime minister's own channel on Twitter X and other social media networks that he did not kill Charlie Kirk.
I never accused him of killing Charlie Kirk.
I said there was no evidence that Israel killed Charlie Kirk, but he felt the need to proclaim that Israel killed Charlie Kirk and he begins denouncing everyone uh who has reported that Charlie Kirk actually didn't like him.
So this got all the way to Netanyahu, and he is in full panic mode.
And again, the reason why Netanyahu's panicking, the reason why these uh the Zionist network in the US is panicking is because they are losing their last base of support, which is actually their most critical base of support, what Israel lobbyists referred to as Israel's safety belt in the Bible belt.
And it's that base that they require of Christian young white, mostly yeah, white men who will go and fight Israel's wars on their behalf against Iran and its allies.
Yeah.
Max, I think what's happening in the aftermath of the assassination somehow, how did you find a way that the government was dealing with the information coming out?
They came out, they talk about the outfit of the guy who seems to have assassinated Charlie Kirk.
And then Candace Owens comes out and tells us another story.
Here is what FBI said.
Um when he's first spotted on campus, he has different clothing on, and then he changes clothing on the roof and then changed back into that clothing at some point so that when he was uh when he was apprehended when he when he was arrested, um, the clothing matched the clothing he had on before the shooting.
Yeah, he seems that he was somehow obsessed with his outfit, and he needed to change it.
Here is what uh Candace Owen said.
What happened?
Something made its way around the entire town and into my tips line repeatedly.
It is a very clear image of Tyler Robinson, allegedly taken.
I'll say allegedly for safety here, but it's looking right according to my timeline, allegedly taken at 6:38 p.m. at a nearby dairy queen.
Here is that Photo that we can show you.
Take a look at this photo.
What is wrong with this picture?
A lot is wrong with this picture.
First and foremost, 6 30, 8 p.m.
You just shot someone.
Uh you have gone through great pains to hide your face to change your outfit.
But wait, you didn't fully change your outfit.
I'm looking at this photo, and uh you're wearing jeans and you're wearing the maroon shirt.
Now we have a 50-50 combo of the outfits, and now you're showing your eyes and you're not fearful at all that you might be recognized.
Also, wow, you must have quite the stomach.
You don't have a record.
Next thing you know, you shoot someone, and you're like, I'm just gonna go have a meal.
You don't seem to be too shaken or too.
Yeah.
Not just this.
You see the text that they have released the communication between uh Taylor Robinson and his partner.
Somehow it's amazing the communication between the two.
It seems it's long before from I don't know.
50 years ago, two people are talking to each other.
Yes, my love, uh, I'm going to retrieve the vehicle and then dispense of the rifle at the drop point.
It's something like um a federal law enforcement official would write who's over the age of 60.
Like, is this how 22-year-olds speak?
And why do the text messages have no time stamps?
CNN actually had to take the to dramatize the text messages.
They actually created a graphic that made it look like you were reading your own iPhone, but there never was it was adapted from the charging documents, which had no time stamps, which had this obviously inauthentic language, and then subsequently we learn that the text messages were quote-unquote reconstructed.
Okay, this is bizarre.
The FBI director Cash Patellas said that a manifesto was found, but that it was destroyed, and it has to be forensically reconstructed.
So maybe he's referring to the text messages, which conveniently dis are contain a confession of every aspect of the plot.
Like you're gonna go and do that and try to get away, and then you're going to conveniently confess to your lover in antiquated language every aspect of the plot.
That is when I went from a uh guy who is willing to accept the official story to uh just asking questions guy, and then more inconsistencies start to come out.
And it's not just the inconsistencies, it's what we don't know.
Based on what we know right now, the evidence is grainy footage of the shooter on a roof.
We just see the movement of someone on a roof and someone jumping off who vaguely resembles Tyler Robinson.
Then we have footage uh a photograph of someone who is said to be Tyler Robinson walking upstairs.
Why do we not have the video?
That was not a photograph.
That's from a video, so why can't we see the full video of him walking up the stairs so we can match the resemblance?
Then there's the Dairy Queen photo, which raises questions.
How did he get to Dairy Queen 15 minutes after the shooting?
It said, I believe in the charging document that he was on the roof for one minute before firing the fatal shot, which supposedly hit Charlie Kirk in the left side of his neck uh from about 150 to 200 yards away, which you know, talking to an R I talked to an army veteran around uh about this who uh took the army shooting test and passed the test.
They have to take shots like that, and it's not but it's not impossible for a civilian to be able to do that, especially with a 30-06 rifle, which is you know, very very uh accurate, but we don't know the caliber of the wound because we don't have the autopsy report yet.
It's it is up to the family to determine whether the autopsy is public or private, I believe.
So it may be the Kirk family has decided not to release it.
But then there's footage which shows blood emitting from the wound to the front, and it's a very large wound which resembles a potential exit wound.
There was a camera filming from the back, which was removed, and we can see the removal of that camera by um I've been told it was uh someone associated with TPUSA who removed that camera, but we haven't seen the footage from it yet.
I don't even know if the FBI has subpoenaed that footage.
But that footage would kind of put to rest the theory that Kirk was potentially shot from the back, and that the wound that we see was actually an exit wound.
Um, the motion of his head is seems to be consistent with him being hit from the right side.
And then you have the question of the bullet itself.
Where is the bullet?
The bullet has not yet been found.
Uh I've been hearing some just rumors.
I have no idea if they're true, that the bullet will not be found, which means that it may have lodged in a bone in Kirk's spine or brain, which raises further questions about the direction of the shot.
Was it a clean shot through this part of his neck, or did it penetrate through the right side, starting here at the base of his skull, or lodging in his spine and then causing an exit wound.
Look, I'm no expert on ballistics, but there are just questions many people are raising now because the no one knows what the official story is.
And there are there's just a lack of evidence.
And I again, I would totally be content to accept that this young man had maybe started suffering from some kind of mental illness or had um developed uh attraction to a trans lover, a uh roommate who is transitioning from male to female and was offended by Charlie Kirk's commentary about trans people and sought to kill him for that.
Be fine accepting that.
But based on the evidence that the public has, if I were his lawyer, I would potentially plead not guilty because there's enough case for him to establish reasonable doubt if he had like a fair judge and jury.
The government needs to come up with more evidence and needs to present it to the public, and there needs to be a credible investigation here.
Um before to put all of these theories to bed.
And again, a lot of these theories, which I have not accepted, focus also on Israel, as Benjamin Netanyahu has acknowledged.
Max, when it comes to the support to Israel in the United States, it seems, as you've mentioned, there's so much concern of uh the people, the young people in the United States that they're not anymore supporting Israel because of what's going on in Gaza, what's going on in the Middle East.
But how is this movement going to be considered by Israelis as the last chance of Israel to have something, to do something in the United States?
How important is this movement for Israel?
Well, it's it's critical.
It's critical to Netanyahu as well because of where Israel is going politically.
This is what my book, Goliath, which I published in 2013 was about.
It was about the consolidation of Israel as a Israeli politics and Israeli society as right wing, messianic, essentially fascist.
And I think my book painted a picture of a society that was prime for genocide.
And then I went to Gaza the following year to cover Israel's war on Gaza in 2014, um, operation Protective Edge.
And what I saw was sort of a pilot program for a coming genocide.
So what's happening now has been in the works for a long time.
And the government that came in with Netanyahu, these uh messianic fascist figures like Itamar Ben Gvir and Bezilel Smotric, I used to see them when like I would go in the Knesset for an interview, I would see them walking around and they were on the move, and everyone kind of disregarded them as uh these obscure figures.
But I could see that they had a long-term agenda and they really had the, they had their finger on the pulse of Jewish Israeli society.
So Israel has transformed.
Netanyahu is sort of holding together the government.
And in a way, he sort of exists at the center of where Israeli society is.
But then you have American society, which is moving away from that, particularly among Democrats and even among Jewish Americans who are not exist within these kind of closed Jewish communities like you see in New Jersey and Long Island, who just kind of have assimilated into American culture.
They have no appetite for supporting the kind of politics that Netanyahu represents.
So Netanyahu's only base among the American public is exclusively within the Bible belt among Christian evangelicals who voted for Trump, but they themselves are moving away.
And there's they're starting through the interventions of Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Green to learn that there are Christians in Palestine, that there is the St. Porfurius Church in Gaza City, which has been under attack, which has existed there since the eighth century.
And this has been transformative for them.
So Netanyahu sees he's losing his last base, and all he's left with is the 1%.
The influencers who are just Jewish Zionists who have no ability to re losing their own ability to communicate with the conservative grassroots.
I'm talking about Ben Shapiro, whose daily wire company has been collapsing.
They canceled their credit cards last year.
They're like ending their office space.
They're leaving their office space in Nashville.
Mark Levin at Fox News, he's just an artificial construction of the Murdoch family.
He doesn't have an actual base.
These are Netanyahu's voices in the U.S. And then he has his billionaires, the Bill Ackmans, the Ron Lauders.
And so what they're trying to do is they're trying to take TPUSA, which Charlie Kirk controlled, and what they've been trying to do for years, is take this, which is a political empire that has an annual budget that's larger than the municipal budget of many small American cities and use it as a host body for their agenda to prevent the conservative grassroots exodus from Israel's uh,
you know, from uh to prevent the conservative grassroots from turning on Zionism.
And then all of a sudden, Charlie Kirk realizes his own grassroots base that he commands at TPUSA is in full revolt.
They're disgusted by the genocide.
Some of them are disgusted by the genocide in Gaza, but what really upsets them the most is they start to see that their own government is under the control of a foreign entity, and that Netanyahu seems to even control Donald Trump.
And so Charlie Kirk has to bridge the divide between all of these billionaire Zionist donors who built him up and helped create his political empire and the grassroots and the contradiction can no longer be squared.
In the, I mean, if you're watching this now, I'll have a new report up at the gray zone.
In the days before his death, Charlie Kirk was having to carry out these Zoom calls with Netanyahu's cutouts in the U.S., top Zionist influencers and donors, almost every day.
And they were breathing down his neck and they were really worried about his upcoming speaking tour and what he was going to say.
And they were basically telling him what to say.
Some people on the call were the venture capitalist Sean McGuire, who's very close to Elon Musk, uh, who owns a house in Israel, works at Sequoia Capitol.
Another one was Joshua Hammer from Newsweek, who's one of Netanyahu's key voices in the media.
Another person was Bill Ackman, who I mentioned before, were on these Zoom calls, and a ra rabbi named Pesach Walikki from I believe Virginia in the United States, who runs all of these influencer programs to send uh youth, Christian youth on propaganda tours of Israel.
And they were telling Charlie Kirk what to say until like 24 hours before he was killed.
And according to their own accounts, Charlie Kirk was arguing back.
So what they face is a political tsunami in the United States.
And they have no way of holding it back.
And that's why in the wake of Kirk's death, and in the days before his death, some of these Zionist money men have started a full-on takeover campaign of the US media, which we can talk about.
It's like a full court press in the United States.
Netanyahu had been waging a seven-front war in the region, and now the United States has become the eighth front.
And they want to prevent anyone from being able to express themselves anywhere in the digital online ecosystem by just buying it all.
Actually, Pam Bondi was talking about it, didn't she say that there is a difference between hate speech and free speech.
Well, how they're using the case of the assassination and what is happening in the aftermath of the assassination in order to somehow control the media in the United States.
Yeah, what is hate speech?
Alternative.
I mean, can you define hate speech?
I mean, I actually don't have any sort of idea of what they're talking about, because hate speech in their mind is something defined by their sort of ideas.
I don't know if we know what that would be.
Exactly.
And hate speech has been thought of as a project of the political left, traditionally.
Um the left was advancing it on behalf of those who they consider to be oppressed groups who faced violence from not just right-wing vigilantes, but from you know state violence because they were try historically oppressed, and so you couldn't, you know, hate speech laws would punish people for using, for example, the the N-word or inciting against minorities.
And now, in the wake of Charlie Kirk's death, the right, the political right, that but really Trump incorporated, has shown its own hand and wants to institute, according to attorney general Pam Bondi, hate speech laws to crack down on their own political enemies,
which represents the left, which includes historically oppressed groups, and they're going to do it to protect the 1%, including one of the most privileged groups in the United States, American Jews.
The Donald Trump administration came into office promising to destroy DEI programs.
That's diversity, equity and inclusion programs, which are sort of a liberal or neoliberal interpretation of civil rights.
It reflects a neoliberal interpretation of civil rights.
It's basically if you take the class component out of civil rights and you advance minority ambitions within corporations or within the military by giving them preferential admission treatment.
They want to eliminate that.
But at the same time, they are providing DEI programs specifically to wealthy American Jews to please the billionaire donors of Netanyahu who are simultaneously paying for Donald Trump's campaigns.
So most recently, the National Endowment for the Humanities, which is a wing of the U.S. government which has funded the arts.
And the right wing of the Republican Party has always tried to defund this entity.
The Trump administration is funding it, and they're now allocating the largest grant in the history of the NEH to something called the Tikva Fund, which is a Likudnik Israel lobby organization, which counts among its board members and fellows.
Bari Weiss, one of the premier voices of the Zionist 1% in the U.S., and Brett Stevens, who is the in-house Israel pro-Netanyahu propagandist at the New York Times.
And these are wealthy people who don't need grants or support.
It's just a way of paying back all of the ultra-Zionist donors.
So they've done their the Trump administration is administering DEI, Jews only DEI, which will only actually fuel more anti-Jewish sentiment among the conservative grassroots.
And they are going to at the same time impose censorship on those who that group considers their opponents, supporters of Palestine, Muslims, uh the anti-war movement, direct action protesters.
Donald Trump is going to has just classified Antifa as a terrorist organization in the wake of Charlie Kirk's killing.
What is Antifa?
Again, it's like hate speech.
It's something that's totally subjective, that cannot be objectively classified.
Antifa is an amorphous network of basically anyone who wants to go out and carry out direct actions against what they consider to be fascism.
And they do do property damage and they have engaged in kind of like fist fights with the vigilante wing of the Republican Party, the Proud Boys and groups like that.
They usually lose.
But the important thing to know here is that Antifa, while not an while not being a formal organization, is also heavily infiltrated by law enforcement.
Any cop or FBI agent can just put on a mask and join their protests and get in their Discord chats.
And that means that by classifying Antifa as a terrorist organization, what Trump has done is created the perfect terror factory for generating government plots to turn up the temperature and turn up the fear and then manufacture consent for more repression.
This is precisely what the FBI did during the George W. Bush and Obama era when over 90% of all terror plots in the United States that were stopped by the FBI, according to researcher Trevor Aronson, were actually hatched, manufactured by the FBI itself.
They were all controlled plots.
And I can rattle off some very specific ones, but you had like at one point the FBI actually following in a car behind shooters who they directed to attack a draw Mohammed competition, an Islamophobic draw Muhammad competition in Texas.
The FBI followed the car of the shooters that they had personally groomed to attack this contest and then watched as they were shot by security.
And then, you know, the public was told the terrorists from ISIS had come to shoot up this free speech competition.
So get ready for more of that under Donald Trump as Antifa is classified as a terrorist group, along with unprecedented censorship and uh crackdown on all domestic criticism.
It isn't that amazing that the case of TikTok is somehow.
You know, how they came out with the solution for TikTok.
Is they're changing the TikTok the way they're I it seems that the tone is changing in favor of Israel.
That's why they're okay right now with TikTok.
What was in their mind and what are we seeing how how can we understand their policy in TikTok?
Because we don't see that much of rhetoric that we have heard before in the initial days of the administration.
It seems the tone is changing toward TikTok.
Netanyahu's billionaires.
If you're watching this right now, by the way, I keep using that term, but look up Netanyahu's millionaires.
It started with a this term kind of started with a 2007 YNET or Yetiot article in 2007 in Israeli media where they uncovered a list Netanyahu had personally drawn up, handwritten list of 50 millionaires and billionaires inside the United States that would support his campaigns.
Israeli media has updated that list.
And one of those billionaires in Netanyahu's back pocket currently is Larry Ellison, whose Oracle company, which is a data company, was launched with support from the CIA, is one of the CIA's top contractors, is building data centers across the U.S. to fuel the so-called AI revolution.
And Larry Ellison is a fanatical Zionist who is hosted Netanyahu on the Hawaiian island that he personally owns on his own private Ellison Island.
His son David Ellison is also an ultra Zionist who's been heavily involved in coordinating with the Israeli government on anti-BDS activity, anti-boycott Israel activity.
And Larry Ellison is now at the forefront of a campaign to buy TikTok to suppress Palestine content, which criticizes Israel, to censor influencers who are critical of Israel, who are getting millions, if not billions of impressions.
And it and to create a Zionist media monopoly in the United States.
Larry Ellison's son David is subsequently working to buy CBS News, which will then install Bari Weiss, the top media voice of pro-Netanyahu Zionism in the US as editor.
They've already brought in someone named David Weissman to be the Ombudsman who is an Israel, a veteran Israel lobbyist.
And Larry Ellison has announced his intention to buy CNN, which is already basically a propaganda arm of Israel, but through its international bureau, they've done some uh critical coverage by reporting on what's actually happening in Gaza.
They are desperate to crack down any information getting to the part of the American public that is not already educated and red pilled on this issue about the genocide that has been perpetrated in Gaza.
They recognize that Israel has is facing a PR disaster that is only going to get worse in the coming weeks and months, with possibly the United European Football Association banning Israel, which would be a real, a very powerful blow against Israeli PR, and lead to more boycotts in the world of international sports.
So they're just trying to lock it down with a media monopoly.
And Larry Ellison, who has donated millions of dollars to friends of the IDF, is close to Netanyahu, is at the forefront.
I should also mention uh Andreessen Horowitz, which is a major hedge fund run by Mark Andreessen or Venture Capital Firm.
Mark Andreessen is also uh arms manufacturer.
He wants to pioneer AI drones, and he's partnered with Robert Horowitz, who is the son of the late ultra Zionist propagandist David Horowitz, who was one of Charlie, actually one of Charlie Kirk's original mentors through the so-called David Horowitz Freedom Center.
David Horwitz would, his main line was the Palestinians are Nazis, and they should just be eliminated and ethnically cleansed.
And now his son and an arms dealer, a Zionist arms dealer, Andreessen, are partnering with Larry Ellison to take over TikTok.
And I should also note that last year, the head of the anti-defamation league, the director, Jonathan Greenblatt, went to Israel and testified before the Knesset that there needs to be a media blitz that replicates what Israel did with its pager attack inside Lebanon.
And he and he per he explicitly recommended buying TikTok as part of that media or public relations blitz.
And so here it is.
It's all happening right before our eyes.
Max, how what do we know about these donors of Charlie Kirk and the movement he has started?
At some point, it seems that he was receiving a lot of pressure from these people.
Yeah.
And because he was inviting those people who were somehow not totally aligned with the rhetoric, with the official rhetoric about Israel, questioning what's going on, how does the US, you know, benefit from what's going on with the case of Israel?
These people were mostly concerned about the United States and the long-term benefit of the United States.
What do we know about that?
Well, if you're watching this live, I don't want to scoop myself, but I have a story In the works about a major Zionist donor that Charlie Kirk lost just days before his death.
Very significant donor.
And if you go to TPUSA's campus or its office complex in Phoenix, there are six buildings there, and they contain plaques, which are tributes to donors who donated over one million.
You may have to donate like two million now to get a plaque there.
But uh this donor's plaque will never be on a building because he was so outraged by Charlie Kirk giving voice to the anger in the conservative grassroots about the Israeli takeover of the Trump administration.
That's actually a term that I've heard people in and around the administration use, takeover.
Like they're not happy about it.
Donald Trump isn't happy about it.
He's just surrendered because he's weak and afraid.
And at the July at the TPUSA student action summit this July in Tampa, Florida, that anger came out into the open with Tucker Carlson not only referring to Jeffrey Epstein as a Mossad agent and declaring that if you volunteer to fight for the Israeli military,
as, for example, Idan Alexander, this captive that the Trump administration fed inside the White House did.
And don't fight for the U.S. military, you should have your passport stripped.
Tucker Carlson also mocked one of Netanyahu's top billionaires in the US, Bill Ackman, calling him a scam artist, questioning how he got his nine billion dollars of wealth.
And this set Bill Ackman off, and a campaign was launched against not just Tucker Carlson, but TPUSA itself.
At that same event, uh anti-Zionist Jewish comedian named Dave Smith was brought on stage to debate the newsweek editor I mentioned earlier, Joshua Hammer, on just the very question of Gaza and whether it was a genocide.
Debate is not allowed at these events.
You're not supposed to have a debate.
You crush the other side and do what your donors tell you.
And Charlie Kirk wasn't doing that because he was trying to bridge the divide.
He was being a little too small D democratic.
So Bill Ackman launches this campaign trying to keep Charlie Kirk co-opted with bringing influencers in.
But there are other donors, as I mentioned, who are so furious that they started to pull their money out of this organization.
And we will never know where TPUSA would have gone, or the conservative movement would have gone under Charlie Kirk's direction as he consistently moved away from the official line administered by Benjamin Netanyahu.
We'll never know because he was killed on the first stop of his campus tour, where you know every uh every other question or every third question was about his support for Israel and was challenging him on that issue.
But we will know where this goes in the long run, because first of all, no one can fill Charlie Kirk's shoes at TPUSA.
And he was still an important Gentile asset for Israel, even as he was moving away.
So who who else can they turn to uh to shill for them to push the Israeli line as this genocide continues with the ethnic cleansing of Gaza City?
Nobody that I can see.
So the PR crisis is only going to accelerate at this point.
And I should also say that all these institutions, these social media companies and media outlets that Netanyahu's cutouts, Zionist billionaires are openly buying just to shut down criticism of Israel.
They're going to become so toxic that very few people will want to watch them.
They are not going to become uh more appealing to younger Americans, even conservatives.
It's just going to be too obvious what they're doing.
How much Of the movement, TPUSA was based on Charlie Kirk's character and quality of discussing with other people because we have to understand who's going to come after him and what would be the main goal of the movement in the aftermath of Charlie Kirk.
And it seems that his wife is just gonna be the next CEO of the movement.
But what's your understanding of that?
Well, just one quick comment on his wife.
I don't know her.
I'm not really qualified to talk about what she believes.
But she, if she says something right now or points her finger in a direction, it's like a thunderbolt coming down from Zeus, and everyone in the movement must obey.
And she has not said a word about what Candace Owens has been saying about Charlie Kirk's death or about Israel.
And I think that's very interesting.
Charlie Kirk was not going on this campus tour to host debates and foster free speech.
I mean, let's be real.
He was seeking doing the same thing that Twitter influencers do when they rage bait or engagement bait people on Twitter.
And he was a very canny, hardworking, savvy and to some degree cynical political operative who was trying to advance the future of his wing of the Republican Party, uh, which is the Trump wing.
And what the what was taking place at these events were young people were getting engaged in politics on behalf of the Trump machine, and it was a get out the vote operation, and they were being signed, they were being signed up and registered and then mobilized to vote for Trump and vote for pro-Trump candidates in local elections.
So Charlie Kirk was a critical aspect in that regard, and he would make the talks as controversial as possible because controversy draws in spectators who can then be wrangled into your political operations.
So one of the last talks he was seeking to do, this was just revealed on CNN, was with Van Jones, who is a former black left-wing radical from the Bay Area, who has become one of the key assets of the Israel lobby.
He's basically owned by Israel.
He is one of the biggest, he served in the Obama administration for a brief time.
I met him once, and it was clear to me he was one of the biggest hustlers that I'd ever, and biggest frauds that I had ever met.
And now, you know, he wears a yellow hostage ribbon on his lapel along with an anti-defamation league blue uh badge when he's on CNN.
And he said Charlie Kirk reached out to him to have a discussion about race and crime.
And that was going to be a very controversial discussion, and uh it was going to implicate black people as criminals and call for harsher penalties against black criminals and crackdowns like the occupation of Washington, D.C., which we just saw, federal occupations of cities, and Van Jones was gonna play along.
I don't think any principled black intellectual would have participated in that event.
And then by playing along, the people in the crowd would get wrangled into the pro-Trump Republican operation.
Van Jones and Van Jones probably would have been paid to do that, just as he's apparently being paid by pro-Israel forces and even the Israeli foreign ministry to shill for them.
Again, this is a guy who used to be uh supportive of Palestine.
I'd seen him in New York wearing a kufia.
And so, how did Kirk you know get the idea to reach out to Van Jones?
My suspicion is one of these Zionist billionaires was demanding this talk uh on uh and and they knew that Van Jones was part of their network.
So uh that that's really what this was all about.
That's what this campus tour, Charlie Kirk was going on was about.
It was about like um registering young people for the for the congressional midterms.
It wasn't about fostering free speech, but you know, there if you wanted to grab the mic there and challenge him, you got a chance to do that.
And in the wake of Charlie Kirk's killing, the Republican Party has revealed their true colors, uh, especially the pro-Trump wing, which was so critical Of Biden's crackdown on speech of all of the oppressive measures during COVID where you know National Guard would go through cities and tell people to get back in their houses, where online censor censorship was out of control.
You couldn't question the official mandates without being censored.
I was an opponent of it.
But now the Republican line from Elon Musk on down, the Trump pro-Trump line from Elon Musk on down is two wrongs actually do make a right.
They censored us.
Now it's our turn to use our government state powers to censor them and shred the First Amendment.
And I think there's there's no way the First Amendment survives the next two to four years.
And with the First Amendment gone, that means America loses its soft power.
That was like the one thing that made that gave American presidents the ability to portray falsely, but you know, plausibly, their country as a shining city on the hill.
And the last component of American soft power after all of this unfettered American support for genocide in Gaza and this endless war with uh over Ukraine will be gone.
And both parties will have been responsible.
Max on PBT podcast, they had Eric Bowling, and it seems that he's one of the board members of Turning Point USA.
And here is what they said about Candace Owens.
And it's somehow amazing they're teaming up with her.
This is what they said.
And her credibility, I mean, is gonna go down the tubes because she needs to bring receipts.
Bill Ackman brought receipts.
How long was that tweet?
It's still going.
I think he was there on the room.
Andrew Colbitt was there in the room.
You're on the board of Turning Point?
Yeah.
Okay.
When's the last time you saw Candace Owens?
In person?
Yeah.
2015.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Yeah.
When's the last time she was at a turning point event?
Not in many years.
Okay.
So let's without even being biased.
There's a best.
Candace even involved.
There's Charlie Kirk's question proof that Candace Owens is nothing, has nothing to do.
She would be in a perfect world if they didn't have this, what I already know was a very quiet breakup where she got too rabbit hole for him.
She would be the logical heir to the TP USA throne.
But she's just not even invited.
Correct.
So this is this is so their divide is a good thing.
Wait a minute.
Not invited, meaning meaning.
She's not even there.
Yeah, she's not one of the names that you don't think she'll be at the funeral.
No, no, no.
It's not that the funeral hair to say TB.
She doesn't speak at the events anymore.
I mean.
So that's just what you could.
It's so good for this to happen because you guys are watching everything that I'm saying and you can watch them lie.
Eric Bowling, I just don't even get this one.
How can you say that I have that spoken at a turning point USA conference in years when I literally went on tour with Turning Point USA on college campuses last year?
Like I that's that's just incredible.
You didn't know that I that I went uh I was on tour for Turning Point USA last year.
You don't remember that happening.
You know, these guys hate a lot.
Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson, you and those people who are talking against the rhetoric.
What is the case of what this board?
It seems that we know about the board of TP USA because it's so much important with the movement and the future of the movement.
Well, that was Patrick Bett David's podcast.
Patrick Bet David got wealthy through a multi-level marketing scheme or a pyramid scam.
And he recently interviewed Benjamin Netanyahu at Netanyahu's request, and it was like a softball interview with like the Hitler of our time, not one tough question.
So you can be pretty sure that in the wake of Charlie Kirk's killing, that will be a very controlled environment for the conservative incorporated influencers who are basically in it for the money and aren't actually trying to interrogate and question the officially administered reality as Candace Owens has been doing since she fell out of favor with them.
I mean, they're basically calling on every controlled con Inc.
influencer and everyone from TP USA's board who wants to still get a piece of the pie that Charlie Kirk left for them to denounce Candace Owens.
And it's really funny that they're now saying Bill Ackman brought receipts.
Bill Ackman uh wrote a really long tweet exonerating himself about this secret Hamptons influencer summit where he was literally buying influencers to pump out videos denying genocide in Gaza and go on propaganda tours.
Like that was scandalous.
And Bill Ackman, a day after Charlie Kirk was killed on September 11th, said, I was lucky to join Charlie Kirk for a meal earlier this year.
Okay, you lied.
That meal was actually this secret influencer summit that I exposed.
I broke that story, and I harpooned, I draw by doing so, I drove a harpoon into Bill Ackman's whole network because we weren't supposed to know about that.
We were supposed to think it was a friendly meal with Charlie Kirk.
It actually turned out Charlie Kirk was getting screamed at by Zionist maniacs frothing at the mouth about his shifting views.
And someone who was also pressuring him was Bill Ackman.
So they're all just lying to us right now.
And they're lying because they want to get things back into order, get all the Zionist billionaires back at TPUSA and get that money and then start channeling it through all of these small other nonprofits, TPUSA action and uh America's uh TP USA.
I can't even keep track of all the names of all these different nonprofits, so that that 800 million dollar annual budget continues to pay off the luxury cars that the administrators of TPUSA were buying for themselves.
I mean, in many ways, this wasn't just a get out the vote operation.
And if you contributed to it, you may not have actually been contributing to the cause.
It the more I look into this organization, it looks more like what uh televangelists had done, where they were just basically taking money from people.
And so we have to ask questions about the the corruption of the board members at TPUSA and why they're so determined to clamp down on the truth about Charlie Kirk uh after his death.
I mean, and I really think it's a question of keeping their um organization afloat and keeping the gravy train flowing.
These are like when I say con Inc.
It's like a pun.
It's a play on words.
It's not just con like conservative, it's it's a con, like a confidence game.
Is Donald Trump afraid of Netanyahu?
If so, is that because of Epstein files or something beyond that?
He's afraid of the Epstein files.
So is Bill Ackman.
Bill Ackman was an Epstein associate through his wife, Neri Oxman, who was gifted uh 150,000 through her lab at MIT.
She's a designer and architect, this really pretentious designer, and she gave Bill Ackman an orb, an artistic orb as a gift afterwards and kept it secret because MIT kept all of Epstein's gifts secret.
And that came out in the media and Ackman was furious.
So all of these people have these connections to Epstein and they're afraid of it.
What net but what Trump is afraid of is Netanyahu's ruthlessness and clear insanity.
I mean, I'm hearing from people who are like peripheral to the Trump administration that they thought Netanyahu coming out on his own and volunteering that he did not kill Charlie Kirk was insane and that he's losing his mind.
But I mean, if you look at what Netanyahu's doing regionally, he's carrying out a regional assassination campaign, killing everyone who gets in his way.
They tried to kill the entire Hamas negotiating team inside a U.S. ally.
Trump did not like that.
But what did Trump do to push back against that?
What did Trump do when Israel notified him in advance of the attack?
Nothing.
There's nothing Trump will do to get in Netanyahu's way.
And that's because Donald Trump Is afraid of what Netanyahu would do to him.
And so I've said this on other podcasts, and I wrote this, I reported this.
The Trump administration through the Secret Service discovered two electronic devices on Secret Service emergency response vehicles this year, around the time of Netanyahu's visits, they're planted by Israeli agents.
That's according to a very good Trump insider source.
Now, I wouldn't, I probably wouldn't have reported it because I can't corroborate that with the Secret Service.
I don't have like some deep source inside the Secret Service.
And so if I asked their PR department, their comms team, they would say, uh, no, we we can't comment on that.
But there's a precedent here.
In 2019, three former U.S. officials, senior officials from the Trump administration, confirmed to Politico, one of the most mainstream outlets in the U.S., run by the pro-Israel Axel Springer company, that Israel had planted stingray devices in and around the White House to spy on Donald Trump's phone communications.
We know that Tony Blair, when he took his team to Israel, would tell them to not bring their talk on their phones or have sensitive discussions in government cars because they would be spied on.
And Boris Johnson, former British prime minister, wrote in his own memoirs in 2017 that Netanyahu himself went to his personal toilet, and afterwards, Johnson's security team found a listening device in his personal toilet.
So Netanyahu himself was planting surveillance devices, according to Johnson.
And then it makes you wonder like who could get access to the White House to plant stingray devices.
It's not like any Mossad agent can just get in there.
It's someone who has to be let in the White House in the first place.
So this is very serious, and it would be rational of Donald Trump to be afraid of someone who has that much influence over him, who's carrying out assassinations inside U.S. allies, who's even weaponized, whose Mossad intelligence services is weaponizing household devices as bombs.
And who has killed or no, as who has incited the assassination of his chief political rival, Yitzhak Rabin, who was assassinated for signing the Oslo Accords.
Also remember that Netanyahu's first boss in Israeli politics, Yitzhak Shamir, was one of the authors of the assassination of Volki Bernadot, who was the UN special liaison to Palestine in charge of implementing resolution 194 to bring back the Palestinian refugees.
So they shot him in Jerusalem as he was getting out of his car as part of the Stern gang, the armed wing of what would become the Likud Party.
That was Netanyahu's mentor.
So assassination has fueled Netanyahu's rise to power.
And now Netanyahu is the first foreign leader that I've ever seen go out on his own on not one but two occasions to declare that he has not assassinated a top U.S. conservative leader or at leader in general who was under pressure from the Israel lobby in the days before his death.
Max, you mentioned the final goal of Netanyahu is a war with Iran, a full-out war.
Something big between the United States and Iran, not Israel, because they want the United States to fight the war.
What is your understanding of the latest comment by the ministry of diaspora affairs?
He said that the new acts of evil is Turkey and Syria and Qatar.
This is a new sort of mindset for me in the aftermath of Bashar al-Sad and what has happened in Syria.
Yeah.
What's your take on that?
Well, first of all, we need to consider that in the past week, Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, who is in control of more national security cabinet-level positions than anyone since Henry Kissinger, and is more powerful than the vice president J.D. Vance, was summoned to Jerusalem essentially to kiss the wall with a keeper on his head alongside reciprocal Israeli U.S. ambassador Mike Huckabee, the Christian Zionist fanatic.
And that to me signaled a um I saw that as a harbinger of doom.
In the same way that I saw Netanyahu's last two visits to Washington as part of a campaign to get Donald Trump to sign off on his imminent or does his desire to attack Iran.
Now we're learning through transcripts of discussions between Israeli officials in the National Security Cabinet, including Ael Zamir, the chief of staff, that the Israelis would not have launched their unprovoked attack on Iran in June without knowing that the Trump administration would ultimately come in and strike the Ford and Isfahan facilities.
And so Trump was going to rescue them potentially from a war they couldn't finish on their own.
And so it seems clear to me, given that they basically have Trump by the balls, that sometime before the midterms, Israel, the congressional midterms, where the Republicans are expected to lose, Israel will attempt to attack Iran again and instigate another more violent war, which will draw the U.S. in more deeply.
But we're also hearing these comments about Turkey and Qatar because of the fear that they could re-establish some sort of influence inside Syria and also their efforts regionally to push back on Israel politically.
And they we many people missed this, but uh many observers missed this.
But Israel actually attacked a de facto Turkish base inside Syria about 10 days ago in Palmyra, where Turkey was seeking to professionalize the Syrian military.
So Israel's recognizing with the new uh imposed government in Damascus, which was always a Turkish and Qatari card as they controlled the various Al Qaeda offshoots, Jabad al-Nusra, uh Hayatahir al-Sham, that this has given armed capacity to Turkey on the frontiers of Israel along the Golan.
And so they're going to turn up the temperature on Turkey and fight what they call a war between wars inside Syria.
Uh, we should also pay attention to Egypt, which controls the Rafah crossing, which is the main point of exit where Gaza's war-torn, starving, genocided refugees are supposed to exit in order to make the so-called Gaza Riviera plan possible, basically the Judaization of Gaza possible.
And Egypt militantly opposes this at the recent summit convened by Qatar.
You know, these summits are usually useless meetings and air-conditioned halls where Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed.
Abdelfatal Sisi made some interesting comments where he announced that it was a red line for Palestinians to be pushed into the Sinai, that the Sinai would become a base of operations against Israel, which would mean the conflict would come to Egypt, and that he will mobilize the Egyptian military in opposition to this, which is technically, I think a violation of the Camp David Accords.
And this is the last Arab army that is strong in the region that is actually bringing in some important Chinese technology that has decent air defenses.
So I think potential conflict with Egypt is on the horizon as well, and that we should actually pay attention to the conference that Qatar just held.
And I mentioned before Israel being banned from the um uh European football association.
That was one of the key items on Qatar's agenda.
So this is a not just a military war, but a political war.
And finally, uh just some trivia.
There are three of Qatar's top lobbyists in the U.S. in the Trump administration in key positions.
Kash Patel was a lobbyist for Qatar.
Pam Bandi was the top lobbyist for Qatar at Ballard Partners, and she's the attorney general.
And um Lee Zeldin at the Environmental Protection Agency was one of the pro-Israel influencers close to Trump that got on the Qatari payroll in 2017 when Saudi Arabia laid siege to Qatar.
And Qatar thought, you know, if we if we um groom these pro-Israel figures close to Trump, then maybe Trump will push back on the Saudis.
And they were sort of correct about that.
So that's another reason why Qatar threatens Israel because they do have influence within Washington that a country like Iran, because of sanctions and because of its historical position, could never have had.
Great pleasure to have you on.
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