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March 22, 2023 - Jim Fetzer

01:55:50

The RAW DEAL - March 22, 2023

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	Help!
	I need somebody help, not just anybody.
	Help!
	You know I need someone help!
	When I was younger, so much younger than today, I never needed anybody's help in any way.
	But now these days are gone, I'm not so self-assured.
	Now I find the genuine, I've opened up the doors.
	Help me if you can, I'm feeling down.
	And I do appreciate you being round.
	Help me get my feet back on the ground.
	Won't you please, please help me?
	This is Jim Fetzer, your host on The Raw Deal.
	deal.
	Years back, I collaborated with Captain Eric May and Major William Fox and Sergeant First Class Donald Buswell on a variety of intel events involving foreign policy of the United States where we were analytically dissecting what was going on.
	I'm very pleased to say that Sergeant First Class Buswell reached out to me just the other day and I invited him to join me here to discuss current events because he was, among other things, an analyst of the then Soviet Union and no doubt has a lot to say about the situation in Ukraine.
	Before I bring him in at the bottom of the hour, however, I'd like to give a late report here about the absurd situation with the potential Indictment of Donald Trump, his arrest in New York City, and also introduce a debate I had last week with Michael Shermer, the editor and founder of Skeptic Magazine over 9-11.
	The Soros-funded DA has now been caught hiding nearly 600 pages of exculpatory evidence from the New York grand jury.
	You may recall That attorney Robert Costello, a former legal advisor to Michael Cohen, appeared before the grand jury to denounce Cohen, to explain how Cohen had said they had nothing on Trump.
	I mean, he's now contradicting directly what he had told his attorney in the past.
	This is really outrageous.
	Costello told Tucker, and he testified for two hours in front of Alvin Bragg's Manhattan grand jury, that It was clear to him, Robert Costello, a formidable guy.
	I watched him on talker that the Manhattan Grand Jury did not want to get to the truth.
	It's now being reported that Bragg, the DA, this is a Soros funded guy who was brought into office to undermine the judicial system in the United States and having a great deal of success by putting criminals back out on the street, by politicizing Our law enforcement apparatus and our judiciary in an outrageous way.
	According to Fox News analyst Greg Jarrett, and Jarrett is just superb, Soros-funded DA Alvin Bragg hid the nearly 600 pages of exculpatory evidence to the New York Grand Jury investigating President Trump.
	Greg Jarrett.
	I mentioned it yesterday, I think, when Bob Costello got into that Grand Jury room and told him, wait a minute, You don't have the hundreds of pages I handed over to Alan Bragg over here?
	You have only six cherry-picked documents?
	You know, continues Jared Heiding from Grand Jury's exculpatory information is reprehensible and unconscionable.
	And the conduct of Alan Bragg and the henchman Mark Pomeranz, who specifically says in his book, we're targeting zombies because we don't like and believe those guys should face disbarment proceedings.
	Once again, the real crooks reveal themselves, and Jared is right.
	If there were a real justice system in this country, they should be disbarred.
	No doubt about it.
	Meanwhile, Anita, A-N-E-T-O, that's the Association for 9-11 Truth Awareness dot org, sponsored a debate for 2023.
	They have sponsored Nine previous years, so this is a 10th annual debate between Michael Shermer, the editor of Skeptic, and me, the founder of Scholars for 9-11 Truth.
	Now, I want you to appreciate this debate is out there, runs an hour and 40, where you'll hear exactly what we did.
	And I think this is really very, very important.
	So I encourage everyone to follow up.
	You can find the debate on my Twitter at Jim Fetzer.
	I'm having it put up on my Mitchu channel at Jim Fetzer.
	Here's an intro.
	Welcome to Truth Jihad Audiovisual.
	I'm Kevin Barrett, and I've been working with the 9-11 physics debate for many years, 10 years now.
	This is the 10th annual 9-11 physics debate sponsored by Anita.org.
	Rick Shattuck is the Anita founder, and over the years we've found all sorts of physicists who have been willing to contest the official story, but very few were willing to defend the official story of 9-11.
	Well, this year it looks like we may have sort of run out of physicists, at least temporarily, so we have a very interesting debate.
	The original concept, as Rick Shattuck will tell you in a moment, was James Fetzer, a historian of science and philosopher of science, against Michael Shermer, a professional debunker and magazine poobah.
	So, we'll hear about what came of that in just a moment, but first, just let me say that the 9-11 issue needs to be kept alive, and it's great that Rick Shaddock is doing that.
	And I am a little jet-lagged having just returned from Iran, Los Angeles, and then two weeks in Morocco, so I'm going to let Rick do the rest of the moderation.
	Take it away, Rick.
	Okay, thank you, Dr. Barrett.
	And we have with us Dr. James Fetzer to question the official conspiracy theory, and we invited Dr. Michael Shermer of the Skeptic Society to defend the official government story.
	911debate.org is our website, and this is the 10th annual 9-11 science debate.
	Usually PhDs Debating the point of whether the official story violates the laws of physics.
	In particular, the collapse of the World Trade Center Tower.
	And we support open debate on 9-11.
	Our requirement is that some contestant have some accredited degree in physical sciences or civil engineering.
	And the prize winner gets $119.
	It's $119.
	That's 911 backwards.
	And we started these in 2014 with Dr. David Griscom, PhD from Brown University with a high Hirsch index of 52. about 52 in the 50s.
	The Hirsch index was suggested as a criteria for those who would debate.
	There are a lot of people on the James Randi forum who want to debate, but we're looking for people who have received citations from other scholars.
	for their work, and we'll go into the details later on that.
	In 2016, we had Dr. Crockett Gravy of Caltech, PhD in physics, Dr. Stephen Jones, next year, and David Chandler, physics professor, and Dr. Denise Rancourt of the University of Ottawa, Canada, defended the official government story
	Against Dr. Josh Middeldorf, a PhD in physics from the University of Pennsylvania.
	And we also had some professional engineers debate, as well as Richard Gage, the founder of Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth.
	So this year, we've got Dr. Michael Shermer, PhD versus James Fetzer, PhD.
	And their credentials are quite well matched.
	Dr. Michael Shermer has a Ph.D.
	in the history of science.
	Dr. James Fetzer's Ph.D.
	is in the philosophy of science.
	Dr. Shermer has been a professor at Claremont University.
	Dr. Fetzer has been Professor Emeritus at the University of Minnesota.
	Both universities have about 10,000 students.
	Dr. Schirmer is the founder and editor of Skeptic Magazine and the Skeptic Society, and Dr. Fetzer is the founder of 9-11 Scholars.
	Let's take a look at some of those credentials.
	You can find on Wikipedia more information about Michael Schirmer and the Skeptic Society.
	And they're both from California.
	Is that correct, Dr. Fetzer?
	Yes, that's right, Rick.
	And Dr. James Fetzer's entry in Wikipedia describes his details, including being a captain in the United States Marine Corps.
	Thank you for your service.
	And Dr. Michael Shermer's Google Scholar profile Shows that he has many citations, about 6,000 citations, and a Hirsch index.
	What that is, it's a calculation of the number of publications a scholar has times how many times it's been cited.
	So the higher the Hirsch index, the better.
	And his is presently 29, along with listing his publications.
	So that's a good.
	Scholar tool scholar.
	And Dr James Fetzer.
	Department of Philosophy of Science.
	Over 4,000 citations and a Hirsch index of 34.
	About five points higher, but very similar to Dr. Shermer's.
	And lists his publications in peer-reviewed scientific journals.
	Now, Dr. Shermer is the founder of Skeptic Society and Skeptic Magazine, which also has an e-magazine.
	And I'm a member of Skeptic Society and get the publications.
	And Dr. Fetzer is the founder of Scholars for 9-11 Truth.
	There's a discussion group about 9-11, as well as 9-11scholars.ning.org, which has a lot of videos and other information about 9-11 and timely topics.
	So, I guess what we thought we'd do, since Dr. Shermer wasn't able to show up,
	For whatever reason, we do have a debate that Dr. Shermer did on C-SPAN, which is a public domain, and who has played the responses from the announcer of C-SPAN, Mr. Brian Lamb, and then now have the responses from Dr. Fetzer.
	Okay, ready to begin?
	Sure, Rick.
	Okay.
	And at the top of the hour on your screen is Michael Schirmer in Denver.
	Good morning, Professor Schirmer.
	Good morning.
	What, how did you get interested in all these conspiracies from 9-11?
	Well, I'm the publisher of Skeptic Magazine and a columnist for Scientific American and I force the skeptic and we investigate things that are out there on the fringes and Um, about two years ago when I was doing a public address, I was approached by one of these 9-11 conspiracy theorists.
	They wanted to ask me about a couple of things and I had not heard much about it other than there was this weird French book, The Big Lie.
	And this guy wanted to know about explosives that brought down the World Trade Center.
	I said, what are you talking about?
	And so I never for the life of me imagined that this conspiracy theory would get legs in America.
	I mean, Americans like conspiracy theories for sure.
	I mean, the whole JFK conspiracy theory never seems to go away.
	But this one is particularly odd, because on the one hand, most of the people who formulate the 9-11 conspiracy theories think Bush.
	He's an incompetent boob that can hardly tie his shoes, let alone be the president.
	And on the other hand, he's supposed to have been so competent he pulled off the greatest conspiracy of all time, orchestrating all these different events and just perfectly pulling it off.
	That, to me, just seemed absurd.
	And yet, it is.
	This week, I've done two dozen interviews on this subject.
	People seem to want to know something about it.
	There's this video that's been getting a lot of play, so it's out there.
	It's become part of pop culture now.
	Hey, Dr. Frenchie, now for your opportunity to respond.
	Well, thanks, Ricky.
	He and I obviously had different reactions in the beginning.
	I was just lying in bed reading a paper and a cup of coffee when he got a call from our daughter then in Bradenton telling us to turn on the TV and the North Tower was smoking.
	Black smoke.
	I mean, it was oxygen-deprived fire.
	It couldn't possibly have attained its highest temperature and saw the explosion in the South Tower.
	And when they came apart, when they were destroyed, and I'm deliberately avoiding the word that we've heard so often because if anything is obvious, it's that neither of those buildings collapsed.
	I said to myself, and I remember this just clear as a bell, Rick, what I'm seeing here is physically impossible.
	It wasn't physically possible for those buildings to collapse.
	But I also said, but when would I ever be in a position to do anything about it?
	Ironically, years later in December of 2005, I found myself in a discussion thread with a couple of dozen experts from around the world, and it occurred to me And it might be a good idea to create a society, a loose affiliation of experts from around the world, to build their expertise, to create a web page, to promote lectures, publish articles, videos, and the like.
	And I founded Scholars for 9-11 Truth and invited Stephen Jones, a physicist from BYU, to be my co-chair at the time.
	Now, the organization took off like a rocket, And by the end of 2006, we had, oh, 400 to 600 members in four different categories.
	What I would say about what Michael Shermer has remarked already is that it's clear to me who taught forces in logic, critical thinking, and scientific reasoning for 35 years that he has not.
	Because he's using a valuative language that prejudices debate, calling the book, which he doesn't properly identify, by Thierry Messon, who's a leading French intellectual, and the founder of VoltaireNet.org, which is quite a distinguished publication, suggesting there's something odd about it.
	In fact, the book, and I believe there are two different ones, Pentecate and The Big Lie, ...is really making the case that if you take a look at the Pentagon, there's no evidence, no signs, that a plane actually crashed there.
	And... ...point is impeccable.
	...for example, the entry point on the ground floor is about 10 feet high and 17 feet wide.
	Oh, there's a chain-link fence there.
	A couple of automobiles on fire.
	Two enormous spools of cable.
	Unbroken windows.
	There's no massive pile of debris from a hundred-ton aluminum aircraft.
	No wings, no bodies, no seats, no luggage, no tail.
	The absence of that debris would be most simply explained by the hypothesis That's no plain crash there.
	We'll find Dr. Shermer likes to appeal to the simplest hypothesis, but here's a perfect example where to appeal to simple hypotheses does him in.
	Because, in fact, for 45 minutes there was no debris on the lawn, none whatsoever.
	It only started to show up later.
	I suspect, in fact, it was dropped by a C-130 that was circling the Pentagon.
	And there's lots of photographic evidence to substantiate it, and videos to which I will give reverence in conclusion.
	You can check it all out.
	But the fact is, if a plane crashes, it's not going to be a law of aerodynamics that you must have crash debris.
	In the case of the Pentagon, there is no crash debris, which indicates no plane actually crashed there.
	So I think he commits a number of fallacies right off the bat.
	He also indulges in a red herring.
	He begs the question by when he was asked by someone about explosives at the Twin Tower, pretending there were no explosives.
	But in fact, the point I already made, and I'll elaborate, it was physically impossible for the buildings to collapse in the history of high rise steel structure Reinforced concrete buildings, none, not one, has ever collapsed due to fire.
	And that was true before 9-11.
	It was true after 9-11.
	It was true on 9-11.
	And without positing some source of energy, that was very, very significant.
	You can't explain or account for what happened on 9-11.
	So, I find his opening remarks Both revealing and disavoiding.
	Okay, let's proceed with Mr. Lamb.
	Any of those theories that you've heard of at all have any credence?
	Well, no, frankly.
	You'd think there might be something useful in it, other than as an education to those of us that don't know much about, say, the demolition of buildings, and why buildings fall, for example.
	Other than that, no, there's no credence to it at all.
	All their claims are spurious.
	I mean, they start off saying that the World Trade Center was brought down by demolition bombs, but in fact, demolition experts have done an analysis of this.
	And other architectural experts have done an expert analysis of why the buildings fell.
	Buildings fall in demolition explosions from the bottom up.
	This is how it's done.
	They start the explosives in the bottom and they work their way up and the thing collapses straight down in its own footprint.
	The World Trade Center building, it started its collapse at the very point of impact where the planes hit.
	So clearly there was no demolition bombs going off and they have this video showing, well we all have seen the videos of the buildings collapsing, but they claim if you blow it up you can see little puffs of smoke that look like little squib explosions.
	Well in fact what it is is that the building is coming down and the air pressure inside is pushing puffs of smoke out and so that's what causes it to look like that.
	Okay.
	Dr. Fletcher, any of these theories you've heard of have any credence?
	Well, this is really quite ridiculous.
	If you think of the official count of 9-11, it's suspended in space, and then you have links from the theory down to the ground, where the links include, say, the phone calls attributed to the passengers, the crash sites, the demolition of the buildings, including, of course, Building 7.
	None of those are sustainable.
	I'll go through this in considerable detail, but A.K.
	Deutning, for example, took three different types of cell phones, conducted multiple flights, and found that at speeds above 200 miles an hour and altitudes 2,000 feet, You can't sustain a cell phone call because the relay towers can't switch the calls fast enough to maintain continuity, which means all the phone calls, and we have other indications from the beginning, all those phone calls supposed to be from the passengers were fake.
	It will turn out as all elaborate.
	Two of the 9-11 aircraft weren't even in the air that day, Flight 11 North Tower, 77 Pentagon.
	Those planes were not even in the air that day.
	And in relation to Flight 93 and 175, pilots for 9-11 could track them both, and find that Flight 93 was over Champaign-Urbana after it officially crashed into Shanksville, and that Flight 175 was over Harrisburg and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania after it officially hit the South Tower, so that
	Virtually everything that has been asserted by the 9-11 Commission is not merely false, but provably false.
	And I find it frankly embarrassing that Professor Shermer should be pretending as though that were not the case.
	I mean, just to make even one of the more elementary points, a half a dozen of the 19 alleged Islamic terrorists turned up alive and well the following day and made contact with the British media.
	David Ray Griffin, who's the Dean of 9-11 Studies, with a dozen books on 9-11, makes that the very first point of his magisterial, the 9-11 Commission for Omissions and Distortions.
	So, either Professor Shermer knows no better, and in fact, because of his gross ignorance, is not actually qualified to address these issues, or He does know better and is deliberately dissembling and I must say I'm inclined to believe the latter rather than the former.
	Okay, well let's go on to the next question.
	What gives you the authority, I'm not sure you're asking for authority, but what gives you an insight to all this that you debunk all this versus the people that are in favor of the idea of these conspiracies?
	Oh, well, this is, you know, what I do for a living is investigate conspiracy theories and fringes that are on the fringes and I'm not an expert on any of the particular subjects that are involved with this but, you know, I can do research and that's what we did.
	We talked to, you know, explosive experts and others that have done a lot of research on this like the Popular Mechanics folks who also have a book out now about this on 9-11 conspiracies and Say, for example, it isn't rocket science.
	You don't have to be all that smart to figure this out.
	One of them is that a cruise missile hit the Pentagon.
	Well, what happened to the plane?
	The American Airlines flight that disappeared at the moment that the explosion was seen at the Pentagon.
	Well, so to get around that, the conspiracy theorists say, well, the flight actually went on to Cleveland.
	Where it landed, or it was Chicago.
	It landed in Chicago, they said.
	The passengers were taken off and then gassed in a gas chamber.
	I mean, just simple logic tells you what's more likely.
	I mean, the very moment that the explosion happened, the plane disappeared off the radar screen.
	So they would have had to use some stealth technology to make the plane disappear off the radar screen.
	And then fly it on continually, and no one ever saw that it was continuing on to Chicago.
	And then landing without anyone noticing, and then gassing all those passengers.
	And in any case, I think I pulled that off.
	I'm walking.
	News or come out with a best-selling book or go to People magazine with the scoop of the century.
	Not one of them.
	This is the problem with all conspiracy theories, is the leakage problem.
	People can't keep their mouth shut.
	You see from all the political pundits that, you know, half the people that are yacking on about the Iraq war on these talk shows are former Bush administration people.
	So people can't keep their mouth shut.
	They can't wait after they leave.
	They can't wait to come out with a book and a tell-all story about what they heard and saw on the inside.
	It seems so unlikely that something like this could have been pulled off, and then everybody who was involved kept their mouth shut.
	That's just absurd.
	Well, this is a very classic straw man, an exaggerated version of a position to make it easier to attack.
	There is an account about Flight 93 landing in Cleveland and the passengers actually not being gassed, but they're put into a humongous, what turns out to be an incinerator.
	Art Olivier has a video about it called Operation Terror.
	But that's a work of art.
	Michael Shermer ought to be sticking to the facts.
	If you look at the evidence from Shanksville, both of the reporters first on the scene said the eerie aspect of the crash site was there was no evidence at any point it crashed there.
	Again, it's supposed to be a 757 just as at the Pentagon, a hundred pound airliner, no massive pile of debris, no bodies, no seats, no luggage, no wings, no tail.
	There's nothing there.
	And once again, if you appeal to the simplest explanation, you have to infer that's because no plane actually crashed there.
	And while it gives you a lot of hocus-pocus about, you know, people not being able to keep their mouths shut, it's actually even contradicted by the historic case of the Manhattan Project developing the atomic bomb, where as many as 100,000 were involved in the operation and they kept their mouths shut.
	Well, there's this fantastic theory about Shanksville, that the reason you don't see a plane is because it was an area that was used for mining, and that the plane disappeared down an abandoned mine shaft.
	Which is fantastic all by itself, but we know what to do with miners who are trapped in abandoned mine shafts.
	Take out the bright lights and the heavy equipment and dig 24-7, and by some miracle, someone might have survived.
	Well, in this instance, that didn't happen.
	Not even to save the souls of whom, at flight 93, there was supposed to be 45 aboard the plane.
	They never broke out the bright lights or the heavy equipment.
	They did no dig.
	Why?
	Because there wasn't any plane there.
	And in fact, not only did pilots track Flight 93 and discover it was over Champaign-Urbana after it officially crashed, but I tracked down the FAA registration records for both flights, 93 and 175, and discovered they were Not deregistered or formally taken out of service until 28 September 2005.
	When you consider that 11 and 77 weren't in the air, how can planes that were not even in the air have crashed on 9-11?
	And regarding the other two, how can planes that crashed on 9-11 have still been in the air four years later?
	Michael Shermer talks a good game, but the evidence contradicts everything he's saying there.
	I'm really floored.
	Let me just say, that's just to give you an inkling about the debate I did with Michael Shermer.
	I most certainly hope that each of you will follow up, because 9-11 is so terribly, terribly important.
	We have a little background noise, but that's fine.
	I know that Donald Buswell is here with us today.
	He and I collaborated with Captain May, who is just a brilliant guy.
	We did a number of shows together, including with Major William Fox.
	And Donald, I'm just delighted to have you here.
	Welcome to The Raw Deal.
	Hey, good afternoon or good morning, Jim.
	Dr. Petzer, how are you?
	Can you hear me?
	Can you hear me?
	Yeah, Donald.
	Yeah, go ahead.
	I'm not sure if you can hear me all right.
	I can hear you.
	Can you hear me?
	Yes.
	Great.
	Great.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I just had to plug in my headphones to make sure they work.
	So, uh, Dr. Fetzer, it's been many years.
	I apologize for the lack of, uh, communications, but, uh, I reached out to you on Monday to, uh, say hello and touch base and perhaps talk about contemporary issues that, uh, are so pressing, uh, for our society and for the world.
	I mean, as we're at the precipice of World War III.
	And I often think about what our, what our late friend, Captain Eric May would be saying Right now, about everything and everything going on is a result of 9-11.
	100%.
	It's all directly related to that.
	And I think our country took a dark turn for the worse on that fateful day in September.
	It was a very, very, very dastardly, evil day.
	The entire event is evil.
	It's just has such negative energy and it's very hard to break away from it because anybody who is a concerned American or a concerned person in the world, you have to do what we call critical thinking.
	We have to be curious.
	And sadly, society is breeding those two traits out of people.
	They're no longer curious.
	They're no longer critically thinking about the basic hermetic principle of cause and effect.
	You know, you do something and it results in this, and the result results in something else.
	This is a law.
	This is a law of nature.
	It's a law that cannot be negotiated.
	You, as a philosopher, know this.
	So, if we apply critical thinking to things like 9-11, we can Spend many months, many years in my case, and you can come to some conclusions and see the world today as it is.
	And we can see the reasons and we can also see the solutions.
	But having a voice to do that is increasingly difficult, given all the censorship that we face with the YouTube and the Facebook and things like that.
	I've been Censored and squashed numerous times on Facebook and numerous times on YouTube for everything from, well, not necessarily 9-11, but mainly the COVID situation.
	But I think that you being a philosopher, Dr. Fetzer, we have to be critically thinking.
	My own critical thinking path, I was an intelligence analyst in the United States Army for 21 years.
	And I was in Korea when 9-11 happened.
	And I got there in mid-August of 2001.
	By September 11, 2001, I had already established my paths of familiarity, walking in and out of the Seoul Yongsan Barracks, you know, to my apartment in Itaewon, Tudong.
	So I knew the guards, I knew the patterns, I knew the steps, I knew, you know, traffic patterns, things like this.
	And on the 8th or 9th of September, I noticed massive amounts of barricades being in place in the corners of the parking lots.
	And this was a progression of these barricades being in place.
	And I asked the guard, I said, hey, what's going on with all those Barricades and, uh, um, egression hindering devices to get on or off the base or however you want to employ them.
	The guy said, well, I think they're doing an exercise.
	Well, you know what?
	I walked out the gate on September 11th to go to my house and I was up there watching, uh, well, I wasn't really watching TV.
	We, we had CNBC on myself and this German girl that lived downstairs from me.
	We were up there.
	Just sitting around having a nice dinner and a nice beverage and watching the TV.
	And we just kind of did a double take and looking at the CNBC live report of 9-11.
	The one tower was on fire, as you said earlier, it was a dark smoke fire.
	Indicative of a cold fire or a lot of plastics burning, which those will not get very hot.
	Um, as we all, as you indicated, and as I know from just being a Boy Scout, doing a lot to camping as a kid.
	So we watched this and we're like, what the hell are we watching?
	And it was just dumbfounding.
	And then we saw the second plane come in and smash into that tower.
	And, uh, I immediately called work and I said, do we need to come in?
	And they said, no, just come in tomorrow.
	And I came in and the next, the next day and all those aforementioned barricades were in place.
	Keeping cars going through a maze of checkpoints and personnel being scanned and looking for bombs and weapons and this and that and it reminded me of the movie JFK where Mr. X was in Australia and he got the news a day before several hours before the actual event happened because of the differences of time and I and I thought wow this is This is just too surreal.
	There's no such thing as a coincidence.
	There's just not.
	And I now knew why the barricades were there.
	There was foreknowledge.
	There was a pre-planned incident called 9-11.
	And it was all done internally.
	And my first six or eight months in the Army, I was an EOD guy, and EOD stands for Explosive Ordnance Disposal.
	Now at Redstone Arsenal in 1987, there was some training going on there at the range, and an Alabama State Trooper took a rocket wrench to the belly and cut him in half.
	And me and another guy looked at each other and we said, uh, we don't want to do this.
	We un-volunteered for the volunteer assignment of being an EOD tech.
	So we un-volunteered for that and I was reassigned according to the needs of the Army and based on what I wanted to do, based on scores and things like that.
	So I was assigned to be a welder slash metal worker, which I did for three, the next three years.
	And then I re-enlisted and became an intelligence analyst.
	The other guy, I don't know where he went.
	So, um, My familiarity with explosives is nominal, but it is genuine.
	So I knew when I saw those buildings being brought down, those were definitely explosives.
	The squibs coming out the side of Tower 1 and Tower 2.
	It's just unmistakable.
	I mean, this is how it would have been done, to blow those buildings up.
	And you come to these conclusions by just having an innate curiosity.
	In the individual person, and the curiosity will lead to questions.
	And then if the questions are vocalized, verbalized, you can find people who can share your concerns, and perhaps yield some answers for the betterment of society.
	And this is what I was engaged in from 2001, September 12, all the way up until Uh, 2005, when I met and heard of this guy, Captain May, who was absolutely a very inspiring man, whom was just two, three hours away from me.
	I was at Fort Hood and he was down in Houston, Texas area.
	And the articles he was writing were not only extremely well-written, they were born with a lot of questions and good, cogent answers.
	That I had.
	And I had to reach out to this guy, find out who he was, and just commune with him, talk to him.
	And what a relationship we had, and that's how I became involved with, got to know you, Dr. Fetzer, and got to know, you mentioned his name earlier, A.K.
	Dudney, and other colleagues in that community, the late Colonel George Nelson, who died.
	He was an aircraft investigator for the United States Air Force.
	He and a former colleague of yours, Dr. Greg Ziegler, they all formulated, they were involved in various online groups that formulated these theories like, you know, any good aircraft investigator would go in there, look for serial numbers on engines, look for all these identifying marks any good crash scene investigator would do.
	And as we know, as you mentioned earlier, there was no debris at the Pentagon consistent with an airplane 757 flying into the side of it.
	There's nothing there.
	And I saw pictures years ago of somebody on the lawn picking up or placing red, white, and blue aluminum chunks of debris to perhaps for a photo opportunity to show, oh yeah, we're picking up the pieces of the aircraft.
	Well, That's ridiculous.
	I mean, there was no plane wreckage there, and anybody with any bit of modicum of intelligence and ability to critically think and ask questions will go down a path and they'll encounter Captain Maze, they'll encounter me, they'll encounter you, and they'll encounter a whole cadre of people, and they'll also encounter that guy that was on C-SPAN debunking
	We're attempting to debunk the things that we have communed on and shared intelligence about and referred to by drawing or going back to the same videos of the Building 1 and 2 falling and Building 7 falling and then the wreckage at the Pentagon.
	So here we are in 2023.
	It's hard to believe it's been 20, coming up to 22 years since 9-11.
	Well, we have a whole bunch of problems in the world, and it all sprang from that event.
	So, that's a brief synopsis of catching up, Jim, over the past six or eight years since we last communicated.
	Oh, I think that's wonderful, Donny.
	I like every word of it.
	That's absolutely sensational, and I know we want to turn our attention to Ukraine, Russia, and all that.
	9-11, as you say, was a pivotal event in American history.
	And for those who, you know, actually watch my debate with Michael Shermer, and it is, you know, video, though it's only our images.
	I have quite a bit of video on 9-11, including a wonderful I did in memoriam from Robert David Steele that you can access on my bitchute channel, Jim Fetzer.
	Just do a search for 9-11 memoriam, Robert David Steele, and it should pop up, where it's rather thorough substantiation of all the points I made during the debate.
	It shocks me, Donnie, that someone like Michael Shermer should be so bland about giving false claims about 9-11, and by the time you get through our debate, you'll see I'm saying not a single thing he said about 9-11 was true.
	I, of course, qualify that by saying buildings were destroyed, but he claims they collapsed when they were actually being blown apart in every direction from the top down.
	All the floors remained stationary and in place.
	They're being converted into millions of cubic yards of very fine dust, which, as you know, is a signature of the use of nuclear devices.
	When it's over, there's no stack of debris.
	We know from controlled demolitions that, classically, you get about 12% of the height of the original, which we had with Building 7, because it was brought down in a classic controlled demolition.
	All the floors came down at the same time at roughly the speed of freefall.
	Because all the support columns were blown at the same time, and you had a residue pile of 5 1⁄2 floors for what was originally a 47-floor building.
	Apply that to 110 store time, 12%.
	We should have 13 1⁄2 floors of debris for the north and the south tower, but there's nothing there.
	And that's because they've been converted into those millions that QB Guards have very fine dust, where it appears to have been using a single relatively modest Many nukes in the sub-basements because, as you know, the towers were a tube within a tube design.
	You had the 47 massive core columns in the center, the inner tube, and then you had the 230 external steel support columns, the outer tube that were connected by steel trusses, which were filled with four to eight inches of concrete.
	And because the buildings were 208 feet on a side, that meant each floor was an acre of concrete on a steel truss.
	Yeah, the building destroyed from the bottom up with the inner tube, and then the consequence, what we saw visibly was blowing apart from the top down for the outer tube.
	Shimmer dissembles on every single point, and it's just as astonishing to me Well, I didn't watch the debate between you and Dr. Shermer.
	appears to be in on it.
	I mean, this guy Lamb, doesn't it?
	A single instant challenge, a single thing that Shermer says, even though he's making so many outrageous and provably false claims.
	Your thoughts?
	Well, I didn't watch the debate between you and Dr. Shermer.
	I will watch it and look at it later on tonight.
	But the parts that I did gather from before you bringing me on, hearing Dr. Shermer on C-SPAN, clearly it seems, and I don't mean to speak any discouragingly and I don't mean to speak any discouragingly about the man.
	I don't know him, but people like him who have credibility in whatever field they might be, there is lendover.
	There is spillover of credibility into other things that make you the same.
	Very good at at what you do and clearly he should have that and he's not displaying that so it leads me to think perhaps he and others like him have been paid off or they have been blackmailed to the hilt to get them to fall in line and for 9-11 it would have been
	Small scale blackmail with probably a few dozen people, maybe more.
	And then you fast forward to today, you know, the election fraud of 2020, where Trump was escorted out to everything.
	Since then, you get the entire United States Congress that is blackmailed to do that.
	So I think that blackmail has a tremendous possibility of being real for these people that are just not Being honest with themselves, because if you end up in Congress as an elected official, you most likely are a lawyer.
	You most likely have a degree of success in the civilian world to land you there.
	And that success and that integrity should be there.
	And we see evidence that it's not.
	They're just turning their back, ignoring it, and depending on A dumbed-down public out here, American public, to just buy it, to just accept it.
	When our financial system is on the verge of collapse, we're on the verge of World War III, and I think the only reason we're not in World War III is because of the absolute, steadfast, excellent leadership of Vladimir Putin in the state of Russia.
	I mean, that's another whole subject, but I think these people that, like this Dr. Sturmer, those guys, they're dishonest with themselves, they're dishonest with people around them, because they have the credibility to support, to show that they have not been dishonest to get to where they are.
	So when they make an about-face and they clearly spit in the face of Guys like me, who have some expertise with explosives, not the most, but some, guys like you, who's well-versed in many aspects of philosophy, you taught it.
	We are receiving spittle in the face from these guys, and it's insulting, but the average person out there, the American public, they don't want to think, they don't want to read, Do critical thinking because we're so sucked up from one basketball game to one football game to one Kardashian's episode to this or that music or this or that television show, and we're seeing a great big rift in society.
	We're seeing those people who are sheep, lemmings, and then we're seeing another group of people who don't watch TV anymore.
	They don't watch the news.
	They don't listen to music anymore.
	We, we just listen for things that resonate with us.
	We listen to podcasts.
	We seek out people of like mind, like yourself.
	You know, we, we commune, we listen to each other's white papers, so to speak, read each other's white papers, compare notes with the objective of helping our fellow man see the truth and bringing justice to this gross crime that is affected The United States and has infected the world.
	I mean, all the way down to Ukraine.
	And that's another whole subject that I know that Captain May would be all over if he was still alive.
	His writings would be poignant, they'd be cutting, and they would draw good conclusions in a good 15 minute read.
	The average reader would be edified, would be enlightened.
	And I draw, and I invite anybody that's listening to this now or in the future, research Captain May, Eric May, Captain Eric H. May, Eric Holmes May, read his articles.
	They're dated, of course, from the mid-2000s, but they still hold up today.
	Still hold up.
	I mean, you have to, when you read the articles about the players of the time, you might have to go and Ponder for a moment, okay, who was Paul Wolfowitz?
	You know, but to anybody in the 9-11 community, they'll know who that guy is.
	Um, you know, Daniel Lewin.
	He was an Israeli, sorry, my colleague.
	He was on, uh, I think it was on flight, I think he was on flight 11.
	Now, what was an Israeli highly trained commando doing on that plane?
	Maybe he was there to, um, to inter, interdict Uh, possible terrorist activities.
	Who knows?
	And maybe they, somebody, the powers that be on that fateful day, flipped the switch and said, make it go live.
	And then they crashed the planes and killed everybody involved.
	You know, I mean, dead men don't, don't tell tales.
	They just don't.
	So, um, we're in a mess, but we also have a lot of hope, you know, because there's people out there that are still able to talk, still able to communicate.
	And, uh, Even though we see our fellow citizens and family members being dumbed down, we're also seeing a large group of people waking up.
	My views about 9-11 back in 2006 were very controversial.
	I got in a lot of trouble.
	But those same views today expressed out in society are almost common, almost normal and accepted.
	So I view that as sort of a vindication of being able to critically think and draw conclusions and make some analysis after learning about things, you know, drawing upon, you know, nominal explosive experiences, you know, and watching those buildings being razed.
	They were absolutely destroyed 100% by bombs or, you know, you said nuclear weapons, That's a very interesting hypothesis.
	I've also heard space weapons, but who knows?
	I mean, you know, there are space weapons.
	The rods of God, I'm sure you've heard of those.
	Telephone-sized chunks of uranium.
	I mean, telephone pole-sized chunks of uranium that can be hurled down into the ground.
	I mean, who knows what's really going on?
	There's another whole fringe out there that Maybe it's true, maybe it's not.
	It's hard to know for sure, Dr. Petzer, but I think as you said, you know, philosophy can help sort this sort of stuff out, and I think that's a very good basis point.
	We always have to be critically thinking as a society, but we're not.
	Sadly, we're not.
	What I do, Donnie, is Pioneer collaborative research by bringing together groups of experts, just as I did at Founding Scholars for 9-11.
	Truth brought together experts from all over the world, pilots, physicists, engineers, and all variety, mechanical, civil, electrical, aerodynamic.
	Turns out they have vast expertise.
	And then in many cases, I publish books, you know, of our collaborative findings.
	And Amazon has seemed fit to ban six of them.
	not on 9/11, where I have two, one which was based on a conference on the science and politics of 9/11, held here in Madison in 2007, entitled the 9/11 conspiracy, which of course which of course is true if you accept the government account or an alternative, because you got 19 Islamic terrorists under the control of a guy off in Afghanistan,
	The conspiracy only requires two or more individuals collaborating to bring about an illegal end, obviously, on the official account.
	It's a conspiracy or the alternative.
	This is why W said we must avoid Or ignore or denounce outrageous conspiracy theories because the truth was outrageous in relation to the conventional.
	We'll return with Donnie Bustwell right after this break.
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	Well, this is Jim Fetzer with Sergeant First Class Donald Buswell, who was a collaborator with Captain Eric May, Major William Fox, and others who were doing absolutely brilliant work up until Captain May's death.
	And...
	Donny, it's really a bloody shame.
	This guy was so brilliant.
	He was so incisive.
	Now, we were talking about 9-11 and this debate with Michael Shermer.
	Among his other techniques is a straw man, creating an exaggerated version of a position to make it easier to attack by saying anyone who thinks 9-11 was a conspiracy is attributing a vast planning ability to George W. Bush, which, since he's a simpleton par excellence, is ridiculous on its face.
	Michael Rupert, in his brilliant book Crossing the Rubicon, took hundreds of publicly available sources to conclude that it was Dick Cheney who was running the shop.
	That was confirmed by the then Secretary of Transportation in testimony he gave to the 9-11 Commission that they didn't understand at the time, but which became the subject of my first appearance on Hannity & Combs in 2006, when Only North was sitting in for Sean Hannity.
	And I was asked, you know, was there any evidence that anyone had been involved like Dick Cheney by Combs?
	I went ahead and said, yeah, absolutely.
	You know, the Secretary of Transportation was in the underground bunker when an aide to Cheney came up and said, sir, it's 50 miles out.
	Sir, it's 40 miles out.
	Sir, it's 30 miles out.
	Does the order still stand?
	And Cheney whips around and attacks him and says, of course, have you heard anything to the contrary?
	The order was to not shoot down a plane that was approaching the Pentagon, where, of course, the Pentagon must be the most heavily defended building in the world, but they allowed it to approach, and it came on the north side of the Sitco station, where the official trajectory was on the opposite.
	And even Schermer made an allusion to it about the plane disappearing.
	I have a friend from JFK Research, Roy Schaefer, whose buddy, David Ball, was in a truck in front of the Pentagon, watched the plane fly toward it and then swerve above it at the same time an explosion occurred at the front of the building.
	To create the impression that Blaine had hit the building, but it had not hit the building.
	And the whole idea of, you know, using W as a scapegoat is just ridiculous beyond belief.
	And it's one of the techniques they use.
	Donnie, it's just insulting.
	And that a guy who would have seemingly this degree of credibility, I mean, he's frequently cited.
	You know, Skeptic Magazine.
	My God, you think this guy is going to be a good guy to address these issues if anyone is?
	And he turns out to be a total sham.
	Well, everything you just said, let's remember, because I remember certain things with vivid detail.
	On 9-11, where was key players in our political society?
	Colin Powell was in Peru.
	Ex-president, recently ex-president, Bill Clinton was in Australia golfing.
	George H. W. Bush, on the morning of 9-11, was in the White House.
	His son, George W. Bush, was in Florida reading goat stories in a school.
	If anybody knows the history of George H.W.
	Bush and Dick Cheney, that is a bad combination of men.
	Those guys were up to no good for society.
	No good at all.
	Why was George H.W.
	Bush there in the White House that day?
	Took a plane, a small plane, left, and he ironically went to Michigan or Wisconsin that morning.
	I remember this very vividly when the News was being disseminated because usually, Dr. Fetzer, you'll notice, usually the first story out there is the one that is remembered.
	This is a trick and this is a doctrine that the United States Army teaches in the art of information operations.
	So usually the first story out there is remembered.
	It doesn't need to be true or false.
	It just needs to be the first one out there.
	If you remember, Private Jessica Lynch, United States Army, the invasion of Iraq in 2003, she was on a maintenance convoy.
	They got sidetracked in some Iraqi city on the way between Kuwait and Baghdad, and she was taken prisoner of war.
	Young, beautiful, blonde-haired girl, so it made all the news, it made all the rounds, And the first story out there was that her weapon jammed, or she fought.
	I think the first story was that she heroically fought against a bunch of Iraqi soldiers, and one of her friends was killed, and she was taken as a POW.
	Well, that was the first story out there.
	Later on, months later, the truth came out, or actually a few years later, when she did an interview.
	And you don't hear from her now at all, but she did an interview on some radio show or TV show, and she said, that's absolutely false.
	My weapon jams.
	And I know an M16.
	I know the M16 rifle very well.
	It will fire fantastically, wonderfully, perfectly, as long as it's lubricated and clean.
	And combat service support soldiers, They got that M16 rifle over their back.
	It's kicking around.
	It's with them all the time in the desert.
	If you go 48 hours in the desert without cleaning your weapon and you try to fire it, you better have in your pocket a can of WD-40 to spray into it, into the bolt carrier.
	To get it clean, take the magazine out, let all the dirt and dust come out the bottom of it, or you're going to have a jam.
	It's going to jam up.
	Nobody's going to carry a can of WD-40.
	Some might, but most will not.
	So I guarantee her weapon did jam.
	What she said was the truth.
	But the first story out there was a lie.
	But that's the first story that people remember.
	So it goes right back to what you were talking about, how the stories that are being put out there were baloney.
	And then these key players of industry, key players in our society, ex-President Bill Clinton.
	Colin Powell, these guys were out of the country as if they knew something was going to happen and they wanted to have nothing to do with it or have an appearance of having nothing to do with it and being out of the country.
	Um, and I remember vividly that those guys were, you know, on the golf course and Colin Powell was in Peru or Bolivia or somewhere down South America.
	Um, at the time, I don't know if he was the secretary of state.
	I don't think he was.
	He was, you know, between jobs, you know, joint chiefs of staff or something, but he was in the know.
	In the political circle, it's the swamp of D.C., as Trump has talked about, the swamp.
	So these are swamp creatures.
	These are evil creatures.
	They did this to us.
	And they'll do it again.
	They'll do it again and again and again.
	But they always leave signs.
	They always leave indicative evidences of their deeds.
	You know, the evidence, as you talked about, is the millions of cubic meters and cubic feet of concrete pulverized into dust.
	That has always been my question.
	How did all those, that 110 stories of concrete floors just disappear?
	You know, there was no discernible pile of rubble that should have been, as you said, you know, what'd you say, 22 feet?
	13 and a half, 13 and a half floors.
	Yeah, yeah.
	There was none of that.
	There was, you know, from the video footage, you can see it's probably maybe two floors of rubble.
	And then the buckets are there trying to clean it up.
	Actually, Danny, I had Father Mark, From St.
	Mark's Episcopal Church.
	Let me recount his name.
	He twice on my radio show said the buildings were reduced to or even slightly below ground level.
	There was no stack of debris.
	What happened was Rudy Giuliani had lined up like 115 dump trucks the following day.
	And I'll bet in New York it'd take you a month to line up one.
	He had 115.
	And they were bringing in, people didn't notice, they were bringing in tons and tons of dirt to dump on the rubble to absorb the radioactivity.
	It's just as what they did at Chernobyl.
	They brought in tons of it.
	So actually, such debris as was left was growing in size for the next several days.
	And then, of course, they began removing it over the protests in the fire department because it needed to be studied for what had happened at Shibata, China.
	You're spot on, yeah.
	And, you know, the past is prolonged.
	Let's invite anybody listening to this right now or in the future.
	Go and watch the movie Die Hard 3.
	Die Hard 3.
	It's in New York City.
	Late 90s, mid 90s, I think it came out.
	The premise of the movie was a heist, stealing the gold, Underneath the Federal Reserve building in New York, using the dump trucks that were pre-arranged in New York, closing down the rivers, you know, shutting down the, you know, the various places in New York where these things can go.
	All a big conspiracy.
	Blowing up a building on top and the thing just completely collapses in on itself.
	Steinhardt 3.
	It looks like a blueprint to 9-11.
	And this happens quite a bit in Hollywood.
	You know, we see things in Hollywood movies that look fantastical, and then maybe five or eight, ten years later, boom, we see a facsimile of that, slightly different, but the same kind of activity is executed that we saw in the movie.
	So, it blurs the mind, you know, it makes people doubt themselves.
	You know, they doubt their own ability to question.
	And then if they have doubts in their own mind about things, anybody around them that might bring questions about these events, they attempt to shut them down.
	Oh, you can't do that.
	You can't do that.
	Now, I personally have lost family members very close and blood relatives On 9-11, or not on 9-11, but respective of 9-11, in my view, whereas they all agree certain things that are officially sanctioned, and I'm the oddball that says, no, this didn't happen this way.
	And then slowly, reluctantly, 20 years later, they say, oh, you were right.
	But they don't admit it.
	So fast forward to 2021, COVID's full bloom.
	I'm on record saying this is a big farce.
	You know, the disease, the thing was real, but how it was developed and unleashed to the world is not how it really happened.
	And the vaccines and this and that and the war on the Russian special military operation in Ukraine.
	What was Ukraine doing?
	What were they doing?
	Who was hiding what in Ukraine?
	What sorts of crimes was going on in Ukraine?
	Which I think that if the average person was to see the extent of the evilness that Ukraine is, that allowed to foster or fester, they will see that comparing modern-day Ukraine and the situation there to 9-11, 9-11 looks like kid's play to what's really going on in Ukraine.
	And the late, great Captain May, as you said earlier, he was a great writer and I agree with that.
	I think he would be all over this.
	And also, Jim, when you brought me back for the segment after the commercial, I must tell you this because Captain May in September of 2006 called me on the phone and he told me, Sergeant Buswell, they got me.
	What do you mean?
	I've been poisoned.
	I'm going to do it.
	I'm going to be In a slow death, they got me.
	What are you talking about?
	I've been assassinated, but I'm going to die a slow death.
	I was shocked.
	He told me this.
	He said, I'm calling you to tell you this as a trusted friend, a trusted ally.
	They got me.
	And his wife, his spouse is a lawyer.
	She confirmed that to me many years later that, yeah, he probably was poisoned.
	And the poison was delivered via his dog.
	And he loved his dog, and the dog carried the poison or whatever, and he ingested it.
	But he told me he was killed.
	He said, I'm going to be killed, and they got me.
	And it's just going to be a slow-acting thing.
	And I'm telling you right now, from the very beginning, this is what's going to happen.
	And it did.
	He lost all body function.
	He fought to the very last breath, literally.
	Trying to write.
	When he couldn't use his hands, he used his mouth.
	Verbally dictating what to write.
	His essays that were published all over the world.
	And when his mouth stopped working, he used his eyes.
	He used to blink on certain words and certain letters to render a transcription of what he wanted to say.
	And it was still very well written.
	Now can you imagine being in bed Having no ability to move your body, but you can blink.
	You're intubated.
	You're having a hard time breathing.
	But you're still fighting, all the way to the very end.
	And this is what he did do.
	Captain Eric May did do that.
	And he's a great American, and I think he needs to be not only remembered, but he needs to be learned about.
	He needs to be taught.
	He was a player that was very important on the stage at that time, and had a very important impact in the community.
	You've given him high praise, I have, and I don't think we can do enough.
	And thank goodness his writings are still out there.
	Anybody can find them on the internet, just look for them.
	But they still hold up over time, and I think he'll be very actively involved in the current affairs.
	But all the current affairs, they all send back to 9-11.
	They really do.
	So that's the crime that needs to be exposed and be rendered, you know, needs to be fixed.
	So, you know, we have charlatans out there, we have paid disinformation actors that have a cloak of credibility, but they're really not.
	They're intentionally deceiving and lying to the American people and to the greater public of the world.
	Thank God you're still there doing this, Dr. Fetzer, having a voice, having an impact, having people that will listen to this.
	You know, today's the 23rd, 22nd of March, 2023.
	We're still fighting, you know, we're still doing something and we still need to do more because there's a brand new generation of people out there that were born after 9-11.
	And then that is the, that is the reference, you know, hey, were you born before 9-11 or after 9-11?
	You know, I work with people like this, and they have no idea, no idea about the world previous to 9-11 or the world previous to the Internet or cell phones.
	So, there's a lot of work to still do out there.
	Donnie, I want to...
	Take your attention to Ukraine and Russia.
	It seems to me, you know, this proxy war being run, but the Ukrainians, the West is losing.
	Even NATO has admitted it cannot provide munitions to Ukraine at the rate it's consuming them.
	In my opinion, Bakhmut is proving to be the pivotal role.
	They're sending in old men and children to die.
	They have a life expectancy on the front lines of four hours.
	Russia has been very restrained in doing this, I believe in a deliberate effort not to damage the infrastructure or harm civilians, but the West has been utterly irresponsible.
	This is just disgusting beyond words.
	Give me your thoughts about Ukraine.
	Ukraine has been a cesspool of crime, evilness for the past 20, 25, 30 years.
	It has been allowed, and it would have happened to Russia.
	Russia was heading down the same path in the early 90s.
	Boris Yeltsin, for all his troubles and flaws that he had as a human being, he knew what needed to be done.
	He was a patriot for Russia, and he appointed the deputy mayor of St.
	Petersburg, I think that's who it was, his role, Vladimir Putin, to be the acting prime minister in 1999.
	And then shortly after that, he was the acting president.
	I think Yeltsin resigned or Yeltsin quit.
	December of 99, he appointed Putin from the acting prime minister to acting president.
	And you got to remember, Dr. Petzer, I was a Soviet order of battle intelligence analyst.
	That was, I enjoyed doing that.
	I go into work.
	And I would study the Russians, study the Soviets and look at their equipment, look at their things they have from a tactical and strategic point of view.
	And I was a small guy in an infantry battalion or a military intelligence brigade, you know, relatively small scale stuff, but I had big eyes.
	I would look up and I would try to see the big picture.
	And I was fascinated with the Soviet people, the Russian people.
	I was like, Who are these people?
	How can they be so evil and so bad when they make such beautiful music?
	When Solzhenitsyn is such a brilliant person writing about the evils of the gulags, how could these people collectively be so bad?
	So I was keenly following Soviet affairs all throughout the 80s, prior to going in the military, 90s and in the late 90s.
	Two thousand, all the way up till today.
	So, I have followed all of these old Bolsheviks from, you know, when Brezhnev died in 82, Chernenko, or a drop off Chernenko, and then Gorbachev is like, wow, following the whole path and the whole pattern of the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the almost complete dissolution of the Russian Republic, but Putin came in,
	And he single-handedly helped build the people back up, build the Russian people back up, and has been often misquoted, misinterpreted by intent by the West, when Putin said the greatest crime that happened was the dissolution of the Soviet Union, leaving millions of Russian citizens without a country.
	And he was absolutely 100% correct in that, because you have the most of Ukraine, Filled with Russian-speaking people, Russian citizens, basically, and they were all part of a big union, a big, friendly, happy, so-called country called the USSR.
	All of a sudden, they're without borders.
	And then you had the western part of Ukraine.
	You've got to remember, when Hitler invaded, he threw 162 divisions at the Soviet Union.
	He had great success in Ukraine in the summer of 1941.
	He was able to recruit a lot of Stefan Bandera people in Western Ukraine.
	He equipped three SS divisions of Ukrainians, and they did some horrible things to the Ukrainian people and the Russian people in the eastern part of the country.
	Horrible things.
	The Germans didn't do it.
	The Germans allowed the Ukrainians to do it.
	All the way up until the late 40s, the Red Army had massive problems with Ukraine.
	Policing up the remnants of the Galatian forces, the Nazis, the Banderites in Western Ukraine.
	But they were successful in it.
	How do I know this?
	Because the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has been releasing daily reports, 10 or 20 reports on their Telegram channel, and I read them all.
	Fantastic stuff.
	This is stuff you don't see in the West.
	And this echoes the truth Of my statements for many years now that Putin is actually a good guy doing good things, keeping the world at peace without going to war.
	This guy loves his Slavic brothers in Ukraine.
	These are, these are fellow Slavs.
	Why would he go and invade them?
	And he doesn't want to do that, but he was forced to do it by our Western machinations, by these very corrupt people, Victoria Nuland in the State Department, Over through Ukraine in 2014, I remember it well.
	I watched it all unfold on RT and unfold on CBS News, doing some comparative analysis right then and there.
	And I realized, RT's telling the truth.
	And then shortly after that, John Kerry and Hillary Clinton.
	RT's got to be banned.
	We got to register them as foreign agents because they're telling lies.
	And I'm like, hold on, folks.
	I've been watching the Soviet Union since the mid 80s.
	These guys called the Russian Federation under Vladimir Putin, they are not telling lies.
	They're telling the truth.
	This is a 180 degree turn that we've seen.
	And we've seen the very forces that destroyed Russia in 1917 are here right now in the United States.
	And back in 2014 or 15 or 16, President Putin, in the traditional New Year's Eve address to the Russian people that the president does, he caveated a section of his speech to his American friends.
	And I watched it live.
	I listened to everything he said with the translation.
	He said to my American friends, I invite you to study our history, the history of the Russian people in the Soviet Union, because the very same forces that Routed God from our society, destroyed churches, instituted secularism on a state level, are now in your country attempting to do the same.
	He said that.
	He said, please, I beg of you, American friends, study our history.
	Learn from our mistakes as a collective in the Russian Federation and the USSR.
	Learn from our mistakes.
	Do we in America listen to Vladimir Putin?
	Not at all.
	We listen to what we're told.
	So I hear music.
	I don't know what you're going to do.
	No, I've asked Mitchell to kill it, so we should be OK momentarily.
	Continue.
	We are going to take calls, but I want you to continue to address the issues, Donnie.
	Sure, I'll be waiting.
	I'll be waiting.
	Okay.
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	Even the government admits that 9-11 was a conspiracy.
	But did you know that it was an inside job?
	That Osama had nothing to do with it?
	That the Twin Towers were blown apart by a sophisticated arrangement of mini or micro nukes?
	That Building 7 collapsed seven hours later because of explosives planted in the building?
	Barry Jennings was there.
	He heard them go off and felt himself stepping over...
	The U.S.
	Geological Survey conducted studies of dust gathered from 35 locations in Lower Manhattan and found elements that would not have been there had this not been a nuclear event.
	Ironically, that means the government's own evidence contradicts the government's official position.
	9-11 was brought to us compliments of the CIA, the neocons of the Department of Defense, and the Mossad.
	Don't let yourself be played.
	Read American Nuked on 9-11.
	Available at moonrockbooks.com.
	That's moonrockbooks.com.
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	You're listening to Revolution Radio, freedomslips.com, 100% listener-supported radio, and now we return you to your host.
	Well, I got to say, Donnie, your points about Ukraine and Putin's role here reflect mine exactly.
	I think he's a hero to humanity.
	He's fighting the good fight.
	Not only did he articulate all the reasons why Russia had to intervene in Ukraine in his magisterial statement of February 24th, where they were Ukrainians were about to launch a massive offense on the Donbass to slaughter the Russian ethnic and speaking and friendly community there.
	But they've been artillery attacking that area, killing a couple of thousands since the coup in 2014, which, as you exactly observed, was engineered by Victoria Nuland using five billion of American taxpayer dollars.
	Totally outrageous.
	I agree.
	and authority than Jacob Rothschild as a Claire Vladimir Putin to be an enemy of the New World Order, in that the New World Order cannot proceed without Ukraine.
	So I think the Russian victory in Ukraine is a victory for all of humanity.
	I agree.
	And the victory of Russia over Ukraine is going to be a very victorious, but it's going to be a sad victory because it's going to be a lot There's a lot of dead.
	There's a lot of dead young men, a lot of dead people on both sides.
	It's truly a tragic, tragic, tragic thing.
	You've got World War One style trenches with drones flying overhead, dropping grenades on people.
	And it's all freely available as media for anybody to consume and watch this stuff.
	It's very, very disgusting.
	There's a lot of evil stuff that's happening in Ukraine, that's been grown in Ukraine.
	I've even seen the PowerPoint slides that the Russians found in some bioweapons labs that we abandoned there.
	PowerPoint slides.
	Remember, I was in the Army.
	Part of being a soldier is you had to make good meetings.
	You had to At least in my lane was, in the intelligence stuff, you had to develop a good product, you know, a visual product to brief the guy above you, brief the general, brief the colonel, brief the staff.
	So making PowerPoint slides was a, should deserve a badge, an award for doing that.
	So the PowerPoint slides that the Russians exposed to everybody to see were our own product.
	We developed things there to target Slavic people.
	Who in their right mind would do that?
	That is just a hype of evilness, and the Russians have exposed it all.
	So we have modern day Russia.
	They're not a perfect society by any means, but they are working and doing the right thing.
	They've got a strong leader at the helm who's probably, well not probably, we've seen him do his Crossing his heart, a religious move of, you know, the Orthodox Church in Russia.
	You never saw that under Soviet times.
	I recently revisited watching the old funerals of the old Bolshevik guys when Andropov died, when Chernenko died, when Brezhnev died.
	That was a godless state.
	There was absolutely no God there when they would do their May Day Parade.
	So, celebrating the end of World War II, under Soviet times, there was no God there.
	Now, you watch a modern Russian same parade, you see the Secretary, not the Secretary, the Defense Minister, Sergei Shoigu, over in the corner, getting ready to go and do his traditional drive around Red Square.
	He's got the cameras on him, he's doing the same orthodox crossing his body.
	You never saw Dmitry Ustinov doing that.
	He was the old Bolshevik minister of defense under the USSR times in the 70s.
	You never saw that.
	You never saw any of this stuff.
	So to me, that tells me that there's a light.
	There's a light in Russia.
	And when Putin said back, I don't know the year, maybe 14 or 15 or 16, when he said the caveat to the American people during his New Year's Eve address, Study our history.
	Learn about our history so you don't make the same mistakes because the same forces that destroyed our country are now in your country going to do the same thing.
	Sure enough, they are.
	What do we have?
	We have all this societal stuff that's just really ripping the guts out of society.
	Drag queen shows, the marriage thing, the stolen elections.
	It's just disgusting.
	Disgusting.
	And the Russians are the only ones seemingly telling the truth.
	I can say that with full confidence because I was there from the mid-80s watching this stuff as an analyst in the United States Army.
	I was paid to do this.
	When I got out of the Army, I still did it on my own.
	Very interested.
	I wasn't being paid to do it.
	I was doing it because I liked doing it.
	I liked listening to Scott Ritter.
	The guy, the 9-11 guy, the weapons inspector.
	I like listening to him.
	I like listening to Colonel McGregor.
	These are voices that are similar to yours and mine, Dr. Fetzer, but they're contemporary, focused on Ukraine.
	And I think that 9-11 needs to be remembered and learned about for our society and springboarded into what's going on today with the It's probable, hopefully not, World War III, nuclear exchange.
	I mean, who is running the West now?
	Who in the heck is in charge?
	It's not Biden.
	He's a, he's a cardboard figure.
	You know, he can't believe anything he says.
	They put a script up and he reads it and he walks off.
	It's these unelected people that are running the country that have got their finger on the button.
	So what do we do?
	This is my question to you and to myself.
	What do we do?
	We look at our fellow citizens who are asleep, who don't question anything.
	They go along with the narrative.
	They go line up and they get their vaccinations.
	And they're dying.
	They're sick.
	They're sick.
	I've seen it.
	You've seen it.
	We've heard the stories about it.
	We have to look because it's hushed up in the media.
	We don't have a free media anymore.
	It's really disgusting.
	That we are now looking to Russia to tell us the truth.
	I never thought I would say that.
	But I am.
	Well, Donnie, I agree with all that, except I do believe the American people did not want Biden, voted massively against him.
	That's why they had to steal the election in 2020.
	And they did it again in 2022.
	We had all the polling showing Hispanics, Catholics, Even white suburban women were moving to the right.
	They wanted the Republicans to regain control of Congress.
	And I say, unless we can get rid of the demonic Dominion voting machines.
	And by the way, Donnie, their motto is changing the way you vote, as in from Republican to Democrat and the drop boxes and all that.
	The Democrats could run a ham sandwich and win elections.
	It's outrageous.
	I think the American people understand what's going on, but they're frustrated because they can't see what they can do about it.
	And until we get rid of these voting machines, I mean, look, We got an invasion going on at our southern border.
	This is an invasion of millions of illegals being brought in, and now it's including a whole lot of Chinese, too.
	I mean, Donnie, it is breathtaking and dumbfounding at the same time.
	I concur with everything you said.
	The border is wide open by design, 100%.
	The Democrats will elect a ham sandwich.
	They will.
	They've done it.
	2020, 2022.
	They allowed the House to go Republican because if they didn't, I think they knew there would be an uproar.
	So they just made it go by slim margins.
	There are no slim margins, Dr. Fetcher.
	Do you remember the election of 1984?
	The only state Walter Mondale carried was Wisconsin, and he barely took that.
	The entire country.
	I think you mean, I think it was Minnesota.
	Of course, he was from Minnesota.
	Yeah, right.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	That's the only state he took, and he barely took that.
	The entire country was red, even California and Hawaii.
	It was 1984.
	I remember it because it was my first opportunity to vote.
	I was 18.
	Yes, yes, yes.
	Donnie, of course, you're right on all of these, all of these.
	"Should anyone wanna call in with a question for Donnie "or me, or welcome, 540-352-4452. "540-352-4452, though as often happens "when I have a guest with so much to say, "everyone wants to hear though as often happens "when I have a guest with so much to say, "everyone wants to hear Donnie, I mean, it's just outrageous.
	And of course, this isn't even the real Joe Biden, Donnie.
	This is not the guy from Delaware who appears to have died in 2017.
	This guy has a different shape and size of skull.
	He has different ear lobes.
	He has different eye color, different signature.
	It ain't the same guy.
	We even have some of these Biden imposters who are wearing latex masks, where you can see where the mask ends and their neck actually begins in some visual image.
	I mean, it is stunning.
	I think that not only the latex masks, this is all Hollywood stuff.
	This stuff was developed there for the Hollywood industry, and it's so It's beyond what I can even possibly imagine the scope of deception.
	Because I've seen these masks.
	They are indistinguishable.
	You cannot tell.
	You can't tell.
	It's scary.
	And this guy Biden, I mean, look at the historical files, the video files of Biden when he was on the Senate floor.
	He was actually a pretty fiery speaker.
	kind of an asshole, but he was a fiery speaker.
	He had some fire in his speech.
	When he was ripping apart Scott, you know, the weapons inspector, the UN guy I just told you about, Ritter, yeah, ripping him apart back in the 90s, just totally eviscerated him, ripping him apart back in the 90s, just totally eviscerated him, and Ritter just sat there and took This is Joe Biden.
	This is not the guy we see now, a frail old man, an actor, probably an actor playing Joe Biden.
	We've been fooled.
	9-11 was the first big smokescreen, big fool event.
	And now, look at what we've got.
	They stole the White House.
	They got rid of probably the best president since Teddy Roosevelt, called Donald Trump.
	Got rid of him.
	He walked away.
	Yeah, because he was too big a threat.
	to the deep state, to the establishment on both sides of the aisle.
	Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence were just as involved in completing the coup on January 6th as were Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer.
	We have a regular caller to the show who has questions for us.
	Brian, join the conversation.
	I just wanted to ask Donnie if he had ever read the transcripts of the show trials that were held in Moscow in 1936 and 37,000.
	To me, that was one of the most illuminating things from the Soviet era because the transcripts would start out, this is comrade Kaganovich, whatever.
	He's an agent of city of London and he's responsible for the starvation of the people of Ukraine.
	And it just made my jaw drop.
	All of those show trials would start out, this is an agent of City of London.
	And so I thought, well maybe Stalin's not the guy I thought he was.
	And then I would go to the coffee shop, and there was a woman in there who was a physicist at the university, and her family came over from Russia.
	And she's telling me, she said, my family said, thank God for Stalin.
	They, the family said Trotsky was just a murdering, you know, fanatic.
	And then my landlord and my business was a Jew from Poland.
	And she ended up in a Soviet labor camp making airplane parts.
	And she said, Thank God for Stalin, you know, and back then it just blew my mind.
	But when I read those transcripts of those show trials, then it started making sense.
	And it made sense why Stalin had Trotsky hunted down and hacked in the head with an ice pick.
	It made sense why if you were caught with the protocols of the elders of Zion, you in Russia, you were hung from a tree and why he hung a lot of those Frankfurt school people that he caught, you know, during his reign.
	So your thoughts on that?
	Well, the, I saw a meme a few months ago or a year ago or so where, where Stalin's picture is there.
	And then there's a verbiage on the top.
	He says, vote all you want, comrades.
	We'll do all the counting, you know, so basically saying that you can vote whichever way you want.
	It's whoever counts the votes.
	So, you've got to remember, the Soviet Union took God out of the equation.
	They were a secular society.
	They took the notion of God and religion and spirituality out.
	They raised burned churches, got rid of it.
	They got rid of all God, remnants of God.
	How do I know this?
	Because I have a friend.
	Olya Grigirovich.
	She's from St.
	Petersburg.
	She lives in St.
	Petersburg, but she's from a town bordering Ukraine in the north, right north of Kiev, near Chernobyl.
	Born in 74, raised a Russian young Girl Scout.
	She was very proud of the Soviet Union.
	So she and I have had communications for good, probably eight, nine years, comparing notes about the fall of the Soviet Union, the good parts of the Soviet Union, and of course the bad parts.
	And she told me just the other day, she said that Lenin was made into a god for us and everything was Lenin.
	And so when Lenin died, you know, of course, Stalin put that same attitude of being the father figure for the entire USSR.
	And Robert Duvall, the actor Robert Duvall back in 92, The HBO made a movie, I can't remember the name of it, but Robert Duvall played Joseph Stalin.
	And this is at the time when Yeltsin opened the doors of the Kremlin, allowing the HBO filming crew to go into the Kremlin and film everything.
	Now Putin, when he took charge in 99, he closed that down, he shut that stuff down.
	He said, no, the West is not going to come in here and invade us, you're not going to have access, you're not going to be Monitoring, you're not going to have CIA agents in our ICBM silos.
	You know, you're not.
	You're not going to destroy our Tupolev Tu-160 bombers like they were in Ukraine.
	So he put a stop to that.
	But the movie, I can't remember the name of it, Duval played Stalin, and you can see the cruelty he engineered to fool the people and starve out Ukrainians.
	Because Ukraine was the breadbasket, and still is, of the entire Europe, basically.
	I mean, you got 10, 15 feet of really good growing earth that is over there, that when the Nazis invaded, they sent trucks or trainloads of the stuff back to Germany to help foster German agricultural development because they took the stuff out of Ukraine.
	So as far as the show trials, yeah, I mean, the movies show it.
	I cannot say I'm a Soviet expert.
	I'm just a passive guy that was at a low level Army Intel, you know, the highest I was at was an echelon above MI Brigade.
	Echelon above Corps MI Brigade, I should say.
	And that's as far as I went.
	You know, so I had strategic interests and I had tactical interests.
	The tactical interest was, okay, a T-80 tank.
	What kind of unit operates a T-80 tank?
	How far can it shoot?
	What are its limitations?
	You know, T-80 tank was only employed by a very, very specific regiment of the Soviet Union.
	And the T-80 tanks that are being employed in Ukraine now are from those same type of units.
	So it's a very rare tank.
	So show trials of the Soviets, I can't really speak to that.
	I know that they happen.
	And we're seeing the same thing here.
	Rubber courts, the courts are rubber stamping all kinds of crime.
	And they're doing it under the guise of we're a democratic, we're a free society.
	We're the United States of America.
	Well, I submit that on 9-11, Because of 9-11, resulting from 9-11, we made a turn for the dark.
	We as a country did.
	We've not been the same since then.
	Let me say, we got another regular caller here standing by.
	I want to get into the show.
	Paul, go ahead.
	Give us your thoughts.
	Yeah, no, I've heard a little bit here and there.
	I was just wondering what anything there was you wanted me to talk about.
	Kind of joking there.
	So, Jim, earlier in the show, I heard you replayed a clip of you debating that guy, Shermer.
	Is that correct?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Just twice this last week.
	Yeah.
	Go ahead.
	When was that?
	When did you so-called debate him?
	The debate happened Wednesday, but we're just getting it out because it had to be edited.
	This is brand new.
	This is brand new, Paul.
	What?
	Ridiculous!
	I thought, well, first of all, because he's been around a while, and I'm pretty sure, I haven't actually checked into him, but I'm pretty sure he's Jewish.
	I mean, that's a Jewish last name.
	But the fact that, yeah, because I thought I recognized your current voice, because your voice from a long time ago just sounds a little bit different.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, I did not know when that was.
	Of course, some of the things he said are absolutely absurd.
	It's hard to believe that a A grown man with any amount of reason and rationale would actually, you know, claim the thing that he did, but I'd be interested to check that out.
	So that's basically on last Wednesday's show that I missed?
	No, no, no, no.
	It's just going up, Paul.
	In fact, I just sent it.
	It's going to be on my Bitchu channel.
	It's already on my Twitter at Jim Fetzer.
	There's a link to it in the comment section on my blog at jameshfetzer.org.
	It's going to be a lot of places.
	We're sending it to the Randy group that tries to defend 9-11.
	And I'm even having it set to NPR.
	Schumer wouldn't show up.
	So what they did was to take an interview he'd given on NPR and then have me comment on his answers.
	And it was, Paul, it was ridiculous.
	By the time I got to the end, I couldn't find a single thing he'd said that was true about 9-11.
	Other than that, something happened.
	But, you know, every depiction he gave was ridiculous and indefensible.
	Well, again, you know, once you reach a certain age, you know, whatever, I mean, we used to call it the age of reason.
	And you hear the sort of things that he and other people say, this really can't be another choice, but they're completely fraudulent, you know, just making it up.
	So I don't know if he's on anybody's payroll, but, you know, the idea that, I mean, I love the fact that he said basically that this is what he does, this full-time thing, you know, investigating Yeah.
	OK.
	Can you make a living at that?
	Go ahead.
	No, I'm just going to say I'm there now and it's just been posted on my channel, Jim Fetzer, 10th Annual 9-11 Debate, Michael Shermer versus Jim Fetzer.
	I'll check it out.
	So I'm not breaking new ground here with my take on Trump.
	So I don't believe anything that they're doing in the media.
	I think it's fake.
	Whether or not Trump's quote-unquote voluntarily going along with it or going along with it, I don't know.
	But of course, it's not going to be a real trial with a real prosecution.
	They're only doing it for theater.
	All politics is theater.
	It's so-called political theater.
	It's nothing we can take seriously.
	And again, I take the same position that I've taken for at least a decade or more.
	Until a politician seriously talks about the Federal Reserve, Or seriously talks about, for example, the chemtrail, weather warfare, bio-warfare, or seriously talks about this non-white immigration which is threatening to basically, not just demographically, destroy this nation and everything that it once was.
	Until a politician is really seriously going to tackle those issues, then in my opinion, what good is he?
	He's not a real politician.
	Yeah, good, Paul.
	Good, Paul.
	Donnie, do you want to respond to that?
	I agree with you, Paul.
	You know, as I said earlier, a person, if they achieve the status and the position of being an elected representative in the United States Congress, they should have some credibility around them to get to that position.
	And I would assume, at least I would hope, I hope to not be naive, that they would get there on the merits of doing Decent things, not doing corrupt, evil, rotten, deceitful things.
	But there are some people still there that have a voice.
	You know, the Ron Pauls and Rand Pauls, things like that, guys like that, that might tell the truth.
	But I don't know.
	We have the entire Congress voted for the states in the 2020 election.
	for the states in the 2020 election.
	All of them voted in unison to go along with the fraud.
	So, I don't know.
	I don't have a lot of confidence.
	I think somebody, somewhere, is blackmailing everybody and has dirt on everybody to get them to go the way they want.
	And who would be the one that does that?
	I would modify that just to say only some are blackmailed.
	The rest are just the players.
	In other words, when you really understand the way things work, and there are people I've heard Colin, there's somebody I know that used to work for a lobbying firm and they talk about this.
	All these people, they're essentially, they're good old boys, okay?
	They know each other, they go out together, they go have drinks together, they have dinner, they invite each other to each other's houses.
	You know, this is not anything that's going to change because the system itself is not only corrupt, it is corrupting.
	So basically you have to be corrupted or corruptible to even get into the game to play it.
	So it's not surprising that all these people voted the same way, just as you said, and that tells you all you need to know.
	Well, it's slightly more complicated, but Donnie, look, I can't thank you enough for coming on today.
	I thought you were wonderful.
	I look forward to having you back.
	Brian, Paul, your calls were excellent.
	Let me just encourage everyone, check out my debate with 9-11 with Michael Shermer.
	This doesn't expose what the hell has been going on here.
	I'll be astonished at your comments.
	Give me feedback.
	I'm eager to see how you think this through.
	This might be a good one to share with friends and neighbors who don't understand what 9-11 was all about.
	Thanks for being here back on Friday.
	Donnie, great having you here.
	Thank you, sir.

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