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March 4, 2021 - Jim Fetzer
01:56:00
The Raw Deal (3 March 2021) with Gary Barnett and Casey Whalen
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Time Text
To think that sooner or later those you love will do the same for you.
And you may have thought it tragic not to mention other adjectives to think of all the weeping they will do.
But don't you worry, no more ashes, no more sackcloth and an armband made of black cloth will someday nevermore adorn a sleeve.
For if the bomb that dropped on you Get your friends and neighbors too.
There'll be nobody left behind to grieve.
And we will all go together when we go.
What a comforting fact that is to know.
Universal bereavement, an inspiring achievement.
Yes, we all will go together when we go.
We will all go together when we go.
All suffused with an incandescent glow.
No one will have the endurance to collect on his insurance.
Lloyd's of London will be loaded when they go.
We will all fry together when we fry.
We'll be French fried potatoes by and by.
There will be no more misery when the world is our rotisserie.
Yes, we all will fry together when we fry.
We will all bake together when we bake.
There'll be nobody present at the wake.
With complete participation in that grand incineration, nearly three billion hunks of well-done steak.
We will all char together when we char.
This is Jim Fetzer, your host on The Raw Deal, where I'm very pleased today to have two guests.
My first, Gary Barnett, wrote a wonderful piece that I republished on my blog entitled Petitioning Government or Courts?
I want to read just a paragraph to give you a flavor, but it drew such a positive response from my readers.
I wanted to bring Gary on to share some of his thoughts.
Here's how he begins with a quote from Mahatma Gandhi.
Civil disobedience becomes a sacred duty when the state has become lawless or corrupt.
And a citizen who barters with such a state shares in its corruption and lawlessness.
Gary begins.
We are now at the threshold of hell concerning our natural rights and freedom.
This evil government and its controllers have destroyed our sacred lives through lies, deceit, theft, plotted, divisive policies, torture, isolation, dystopian mandates, crippling orders by executive fiat, and murder.
This is not hidden.
It is open and exposed.
But the people have ignored the blatant nature of this conspiracy to take over humanity and instead have, as expected by their masters, acquiesced to every command given.
After all this tyranny leveled against this society, they now beg for crumbs from the very scum who have enslaved them.
This collective and pathetic response can result in nothing less than mass enslavement.
Well said, Gary, and welcome to The Raw Deal.
Thank you so much, Jim.
I'm glad to be here.
Please tell us how matters are developing, what you believe can be done.
I believe many of us may have misplaced faith that there's a plan that behind the scene the military has been operating to drain the swamp and that we may find a restoration of integrity to government by way of the military in short order.
But frankly, a lot of us are also losing faith.
We don't like to be played and we're concerned we may have been deceived.
Your thoughts?
Well, I mean, we've been deceived, but we've allowed people have allowed themselves to be deceived.
And if they're expecting another part of government to come in and save them, to me, that's a that's a fatal flaw.
This can only be solved By people understanding what they're facing and actually doing something about it.
That's one of the things I was talking about in my article, and I actually spoke about this yesterday.
People want to seek redress for all of these ills by going to the state or going to the courts.
Whether it's the courts or the governing system from the top to the bottom down to the, you know, from the president down to the local health inspectors or what have you, or any other part of the system, the enforcement system, the courts, everything, that's all government.
So if you're seeking to gain freedom back by begging the government or attempting to As Gandhi said, barter with them.
You're going to lose.
The only way that can work, the only way that you can use the actual system, in my mind, to any benefit to regain freedom or liberty, is if you have a pretty large disobeying society and large-scale dissent.
If you don't have it, thinking the government's going to talk to you and fix this, whether
it's the military side or the political side, I think is just never going to happen.
I think that's just not good reasoning.
Well, I'm very keen to know what you believe can be done.
I have published so much on my blog at jamesfetzer.org about the coronavirus, about the travails of face masks, the dangers of lockdowns.
I'm now encouraging everyone I can reach to check out some of those pieces, including about Twenty adverse consequences from wearing masks.
It's really horrific in its depiction of what we're doing, especially to young people, damaging their lives permanently, where we're all killing ourselves slowly, and encouraging them to write letters to the editor, to teachers, to school principals, to their state representatives, and of course to their Congressional House and Senate representatives.
I believe that the people have to take a stand and do everything they can to inform these people who appear to be either enormously, overwhelmingly ignorant or, alas, profoundly corrupt.
And I think you are gravitating toward the latter as more prevalent than the former.
Of course I am.
I have for 20 years.
I get asked, not every day, but almost every day, and it's a question I really hate to get, but I still get it all the time.
Where I'm told, it's fine that you're telling us what's going on, but you have to tell me what to do.
And I cannot do anything for anybody.
People have to come to a conclusion as an individual, whether they're working alone or whether they're working in mass, they have to come to the conclusion as an individual that they are responsible for their own freedom.
And until they get to that level, and by educating and writing and visual aids and Telling people what's going on and putting the information out there as best as we can, that's all good.
But until people actually turn around and decide to disobey their masters, and I mean on a large scale, and I'm not talking about everybody in the country, it only takes a few percentage, a little percentage of the total to turn this thing around.
But at this point, people are They still are not dissenting at any level that, you know, is large enough to cause a turnaround.
And I don't know.
I mean, the solution to me is dissent and disobedience.
But if the people at large don't do that, if they continue doing what they're doing and obeying orders and mandates and closing their businesses and wearing masks, Well, I want you to elaborate.
vaccines and tests, then we're all going to be in a bad way because a handful is not going
to get the job done, but a small percentage disobeying entirely certainly could.
Well I want you to elaborate.
You're suggesting your mass resistance by refusing to wear face masks, by declining
to be vaccinated, by if you have a small business, opening your business, going about living
a normal life to the extent to which is possible in the hope and expectation that you'll be
setting an example for others who will follow suit.
Am I reading you right?
Where, therefore, the states of Florida and Texas, now Mississippi, are setting splendid examples for the rest of the nation by opening their businesses, their estate, refusing to participate in the lockdown for which I applaud them.
That's right, but you know, it takes, you know, people People shut down.
The whole country shut down already.
Opening back up is wonderful, but even here where I live, I'm in Montana, and I'm pretty much away from everything.
We don't have a mask mandate anymore.
I've never put one on.
I never will, but people still wear masks.
People still open their businesses at half capacity.
They still move all their restaurants.
In the restaurants, they move all the Six or eight feet away and they only have a few people in at a time.
They require masks to get to your table still in much of Montana.
I mean this kind of acquiescence is very dangerous and it's going to take a larger scale dissent in order to turn this thing back.
I think it's impossible to use the government or Congress or the courts to gain freedom until the people decide they're willing to
take risks to save themselves.
And they haven't done that at this point in my mind.
I haven't seen it at all.
I've seen some, and it's getting a little better, but it's going to take a lot more.
Well, Gary, tell me specifically then what you believe people should be doing as a form
of civil, peaceful protest of the kind you advocate.
Well, they have to stop what they're doing, not support government, not obey any mandate
whatsoever, and like you said, go about their business immediately.
They have to do this, even with risk.
And the more numbers, the better it's going to be.
And everybody that contacts me says, well, I can't do anything because I'm just one.
Well, when everybody thinks that, well, nothing's going to get done, and we're all going to be doomed.
And I can't tell people There is no plan.
You know, you can't just come up with something and say, okay, everybody do this, because people don't do it.
You have 330 million individuals in this country.
They don't act like individuals.
They act like collective slaves, but they are individuals.
And until they stand up and behave as one, you know, nothing's going to change.
And the people, the controlling system, you know, is a top-down system.
And the government's not in charge of this.
They are the enforcers of it, but the government is not in control.
The banking and central bank and the finance systems, the large corporate system, technology centers, the large tax-free foundational entities, You know, the people at the top of the chain are controlling, and it's like a spider web, and it just trickles right down to the local people.
I mean, it's just like a health inspector in a small town telling people what they have to do and they don't have to do.
You know, and I mean, as far as I can see, like I said, the only solution is to dissent at every level possible, and that means I'm not going to acquiesce to this, and it may cause me harm in the future, but I'm not going to become a slave voluntarily.
So until people wake up and decide to stand on their own two feet, we have a real problem.
There is no answer.
I can't just say, okay, everybody look at my plan and do this.
That's not how things work.
People don't do that.
Right now they're doing what they're told to do on the TV set and by politicians, and until they change that attitude, until they're mad enough to change that attitude, you know, we have big trouble ahead.
Well, Gary, I think we got big trouble right now already right here in River City, so I'm eager to hear more about how should people react.
They go out without a mask.
Suppose they go to a A filling station or a convenience store and they're met by opposition.
The owner, the clerk, says you should put on a mask.
What should they do?
How should they deal with it?
Well, I've had that question on several occasions and the only way I can answer it, it depends on the individual.
I'll never put on a mask.
I'll never let somebody bother me or get in my face.
But everybody doesn't have that attitude.
So, there's going to have to be different ways to handle this, you know, depending on personalities.
If you're more weak-minded, you just have to refuse and stand your ground.
And if they're not going to let you in, you have to leave and not acquiesce.
You know, I'm not going to do it, but I can't force somebody else to act the way I act.
So, like I said, there is no, I can't tell, I can't sit here and tell.
300 million people, how each one of them has to act when they try to retain their freedom and somebody's ordering them to do things that they have no right to do.
People have to stand up themselves and a lot of people are.
I mean, if you look at what happened in Italy recently.
Where 50,000 restaurants opened up at one time and the government was completely imminent.
There's nothing they could do because of the mass, you know, dissent that was taking place.
And we haven't seen that in this country.
We've seen little spots of it or one business or two businesses or segments of certain small societal segments that refuse to do things.
But at this point, people are still doing as they're told, and they have to, if they want to ever be free again, they have to quit doing what they're told by government immediately.
And I can't tell them exactly how to do that.
Of course, it's a matter of international law, the Nuremberg Code, and so forth, that you cannot be subjected to a medical experiment without your informed consent.
And in relation to these vaccines, the risks seem to overwhelm the benefits, which appear to me to be virtually nil, given what I've done in terms of research on the coronavirus.
But at the very least, I think one could decline the vaccine By asking whether they contain abortive fetal tissue, which of course they do, whether they might cause an adverse reaction, physiological reaction, because of the intermix of drugs, which of course is the case, and because you have, you know, reasons of your own personal health for declining to do it, the number of deaths that are occurring from these vaccines
Makes the risk of taking the vaccine, it appears, overwhelmingly greater than the risk from the coronavirus.
What I'm suggesting, Gary, is simply fortifying your audience, you know, with reasons they can use to decline the vaccine.
With regard to the face mask, so far as I know, there are no laws that authorize the government to interfere and require you to wear a face mask.
And in that case, you have an absolute health exception, too, where those who would challenge aren't even allowed to ask what the health exception is.
I would suggest we all are entitled to a health exception with regard to mask wearing because we need to breathe.
And of course, it turns out there are vast bad consequences.
You're killing your brain cells by recirculating oxygen-depleted air.
You're putting an additional stress on your cardiovascular system.
You're running all kinds of risks, especially children, to their faces in the form of acne, even facial distortion because it promotes mouth breathing, leads to longer faces.
I have several blogs about this, including technical scientific summaries, but also a masterful piece summarizing 20 reasons.
I want to encourage everyone to become familiar with those reasons so you can deploy them if you're challenged about, say, refusing to wear a face mask, for example, that you'll have good reasons readily at your disposal.
I presume you would agree with All of that, Gary?
Well, to an extent.
First off, I don't need to give anybody a health reason.
I'm not going to put one on.
I'm not taking a vaccine.
I'm not taking a test.
I have every right not to do anything I'm told by anyone from a restrictive law standpoint.
I'm not going to do it.
Period.
This is what I talk to people about.
Uh, they want to get a piece of paper or somebody to give them permission.
They want to tell them, well, I may have a health reason, so I need a piece of paper and I'm not, you know, I don't need that.
I'm, I'm not going to take it regardless of who comes after me.
So, it, it's a little different attitude that I have.
Uh, you know, using the system, uh, you know, to argue against something that is completely illegal in the beginning doesn't make, I mean, it might help in certain circumstances, but until people refuse, period.
It doesn't matter the reason.
You don't need a reason to refuse to put on a mask and take a vaccine.
I've never taken a vaccine.
I've never put on a mask, and I never will.
It doesn't matter what the law says, if they pass laws or not.
So, this is where people have to come to.
They have to have a complete attitude change that it's not about It's not about begging the government or using excuses.
It's about saying, no, I am not complying with any of these government orders, period.
That's my attitude.
It doesn't work for everybody, but the bottom line is, if they come up with another mandate that you can't go to work or you can't You can't go in a store and you can't get food and you can't have energy if you don't do this.
Well, then you're going to have to make a decision either to die in slavery and sickness or stand up for yourself.
And a piece of paper is not going to be the job.
And I'm not talking about physical aggression.
I'm talking about taking away everything that the government is attempting to do by not complying with anything and doing it Across the board, people everywhere.
Like I said, I can't make this happen, and you can't make this happen.
There is no piece of paper or excuse that's going to make it happen.
It's got to be an attitude change by the people.
I can't make it any clearer than that.
Gary, I notice you contributed to a book by Cynthia McKinney now, When China Sneezes, From the Coronavirus Lockdown to the Global Political Economic Crisis.
I'm a huge fan of Cynthia.
I admire her beyond words.
Tell us about the book.
Well, you know, When China Sneezes came out, Cynthia was one of the, she's a wonderful, wonderful lady.
She's been through She's been through, oh my gosh, a transformation that you just don't see that often, beginning as a, you know, hardcore Democrat against the Bush administration with this 9-11 fiasco, and then being hated, and then going against Obama even stronger, being hated again by, you know, the other side, and then basically manipulated out of her office.
And changing her attitude, and now she is libertarian after all of that.
I mean, she understands what, you know, what government is.
So she's changed her attitude dramatically over the years.
But she had been in China, she was one of the last people out of China before this broke loose at the end of 2019.
And she had read an article that I had written And about this subject, and she got a hold of me and asked me if I would contribute to this book.
So, I just contributed one chapter, and it's basically, well, what I wrote about was the United States bioweapon development, research, and deployment and use of bioweapons.
Uh, historically and to date, and, uh, you know, it's, uh, it's a horror what, you know, what this country has been involved in, in that realm.
So, uh, you know, that, that's, that's the contribution I made was to, uh, you know, go over the bioweapons area, which ties right in with this, you know, fake virus, as I call it, this COVID-19 that's never been found or isolated or purified or never has satisfied Koch postulates.
You know, it doesn't exist in any legal form, so at any rate, the bioweapon side is much a part of what's going on, and what I consider these non-vaccine vaccines, these synthetic, I consider them synthetic bioweapons, is what I consider, because it's going to change, you know, Theology and the body and the mind of individuals across the world, and it's all, you know, it's gene-altering, and they're horrible.
So as far as I'm concerned, the vaccines are just another U.S.
bioweapon that's going to be used against the people.
Well, Gary, I'm delighted to have you here, and when we return, we'll be joined by my second guest today.
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I'm very pleased to have a second guest today, highly unusual, but he's here, Casey Whelan,
I want to invite him to comment on what we have heard already from Gary Barnett.
But I also want to toss in what I mentioned at the top of the show.
Texas Governor Abbott will open state 100 percent, lift mask mandate, Mississippi follows suit.
Casey, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, Jim, for having me on.
Can you hear me okay?
Yeah, just great, Casey.
Go ahead and give us your thoughts about what you've been hearing from Gary.
Yeah, that was some great stuff from Gary there.
I agree with a lot of what he said.
It's going to take the populace to eventually come to mass civil non-compliance for this thing to get turned around, but ultimately at the end of the day, I think people will do the right thing.
Things are looking relatively dark right now, but I really think through my activism and all the things I've been doing, I really feel like people are going to stand up.
They're not going to let their children be subjected to a system that will just dominate them.
At the end of the day, I just don't think that that's going to be the case.
How that happens, I don't know.
One of the things I could talk about is a group called People's Rights that's enabling people to stand up against an oppressive, tyrannical government.
Absolutely, Casey.
Tell us about it.
Sure, so I've been an activist for like the last three years, non-stop.
This last year, a group emerged called People's Rights.
This is essentially started out of the Boise, Idaho area by a bunch of people, just grassroots.
They started having town halls and that got the attention of a lot of local people who were very, of course, upset with what was going on at the time with the emergency orders from Governor Little.
And how it was shutting down businesses and et cetera, how we were all locked down, very frustrating.
So this gave people a lot of hope.
So I think this started out relatively small.
I think this was back in March of last year.
One of the people that were helping to foster this is Ammon Bundy.
And so he would have town halls at a place that he owned.
I went down there in April to see one of these town halls And I was shocked.
I would say probably about 100 people there, and they were frustrated, but it's a town hall atmosphere, so people are able to ask questions, air their grievances.
It's an educational process, so we talk about the Constitution and ways that we can fight back against what's going on right now.
Another thing that People's Rights does, and if you're interested in joining this or getting more information, you can go to peoplesrights.org.
If you're interested in joining, you can join on the website, or you can also join by texting the word RIGHTS, R-I-G-H-T-S 280123.
And this is actually a national movement.
And how it works is that every state is broken up into areas, and each area consists of a certain number of counties.
And in an area, there's a number of people called area assistants, and they're just networkers, essentially.
And if there's a problem with any type of government overreach, an area assistant will send out a text message to all the people that have signed up in that area, and they'll be told, essentially, what's going on and how the people can come together to proactively combat, in a peaceful sense, of course, any type of government overreach.
And it's been extremely effective this last year that I can kind of go on.
I don't have a question.
Just pipe in if you have a question.
But we've been effective.
Yeah, seems to me that you and Gary are on very much the same frequency.
And of course, you're in Montana and Idaho, where I think that there's a stronger sense of freedom and liberty than we find in many other states, and particularly in urban centers, big cities.
Where New York and California seem to be the most oppressed by their governors.
It's truly outrageous.
Incidentally, I've just received a new article where Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, one of the real medical experts in this field, explains how the depopulation COVID vaccines begin working in three to six months.
We're getting a lot of people who are dying right off the bat, others who die about two weeks later in Israel.
Well, they have a higher percentage of vaccinated population than anywhere else on the globe.
They're referring it to as a new holocaust.
I cannot stress how risky it is for anyone out there.
You want to take one of these vaccines, you want to avoid it at all costs if you possibly can.
Believe me, And it's very troubling that there are businesses, employers who are putting pressure on their employees to take these vaccines.
Remember, they're all experimental.
They skip laboratory testing with animals, which is typically indispensable to expedite getting them out.
This is an area where I'm troubled by Trump's role, because he has to a large extent sought to protect the American people from abuse and exploitation.
But in this instance, He himself, of course, was played by Anthony Tony the Rat Fauci and Deborah Birx using the Neil Ferguson model into the false belief that we were going to lose over 2 million Americans if we didn't shut down the economy.
But as both you and Gary are emphasizing, Casey, that's really highly, completely inappropriate.
In fact, in the past, what has happened is a quarantine of the sick.
But in this case, we had quarantining of the healthy.
And not only are masks massively damaging, which Fauci discovered when he did research on the Spanish flu and found that of the 10 million plus who died in one of the worst pandemics in world history, Only a small percentage died from the flu.
The rest died from bacterial pneumonia, the development of which is advanced by wearing masks.
And now Fauci is telling us to wear two or three.
In my opinion, this man is public enemy number one.
Gary, your thoughts about Casey's observations and the rest?
Gary Saner I think every effort taken by people that actually have a legitimate passion for freedom to get
together and to try to stop things is a great positive.
I mean, I have no problem with, I think it's wonderful, and it might be important to understand I am a complete anarchist, involuntarist.
I don't believe in government.
I don't believe in government solutions.
So that might help people to understand where I'm coming from with my attitude.
So I'm not a protester and a petitioner to get things.
I go about it a little differently, but I think every single effort by people that have a strong sense of protecting their own freedom is It's fantastic.
I don't put down any effort by anyone.
If they're going to take the time and spend the time and energy and take the risk to stop tyranny, well, God bless them.
That's what all of us should be attempting to do.
I am not one to expect to gain by Asking permission from government to open my business or asking permission from a governor or a health inspector to do what I want to do or not wear a mask.
I'm just not going to comply, but I'm not like everybody else and everyone has to do things in the best manner that they can.
Casey, Casey.
Yeah, if I could, that's really interesting.
The whole thing, the whole anarchist issue, one of the things that's really interesting about people's rights is we're not, we're really not political, we just, all we want to do is protect people's rights.
One of my good friends, he's an anarchist, and he's actually helping to run one of these groups, where they have town halls, and he's running it, and he doesn't necessarily agree with everything in the Constitution, but like you, his ultimate goal is just freedom.
Let me do what I want to do.
I mean, he actually wanted to open up a restaurant in his home because he was so upset with what was going on in Washington state.
And I mean, hey, hats off to him for for that.
That's what we need.
And it's really exciting.
And just something he mentioned about the quarantine issue in where I am.
We have the sheriff's department here.
They had some signage up at a beach that basically said, if you're from out of state, You have to self-quarantine for 14 days or return to the state that you're from, or you may be charged with a misdemeanor.
And that really made me mad because they were just arbitrarily applying it to everybody as a blanket, like you were alluding to, as far as our rights are concerned.
And in the Idaho state law, it specifically says for quarantine, the definition is that there has to be an infectious agent or a hazardous material at the site for them to do this.
And so, it's very authoritarian what's going on.
I ultimately had taken those signs down, and I took them back to the Sheriff's Department, and the prosecutor did charge me with a misdemeanor for taking down those signs.
That's another story in itself.
But, and the people that were pointing out that this, what the definition of quarantine were online, there are people that were running for Sheriff in the community, they're lawyers, and they're saying this is not right.
That's one thing to armchair quarterback, but people need to put their money where their mouth is right now.
We need people to step up and play.
Well, it's nice to have the two of you here together.
Your outlooks are very, very similar and not common overall across the nation, so I'm extremely pleased to have the opportunity for you to be here.
We'll, of course, be taking callers a second hour, and I won't be surprised if we get a fair number who are eager to pursue these issues.
Gary, what further thoughts would you like to add about the coronavirus, the pandemic, even the election here, for which, in my opinion, and I mean it's subjective, there's overwhelming evidence of massive theft using the Dominion machines, so I find it insulting When, for example, the Wisconsin State Journal, which I paid to track how the mainstream is reporting events, continuously adds qualifications when it would not even cover CPAC.
Not a single word about it, which I found disgusting beyond belief, since it was a major political event of the last weekend.
And then anytime there's discussion or issues raised about the election, they talk about being false claims that the election was stolen or there were any problems when the evidence is simply overwhelming.
Give me your take, Gary, and then we'll go to Casey.
Okay.
You may not like my take.
I'm not political.
I don't believe in voting.
I don't believe in the system.
And regardless of whether and I obviously there were very, very strange and openly corrupt things going on with the election.
But I really, you know, from my standpoint, it doesn't make much difference because when you're talking about the political system, whether it's Trump or Biden or anyone else, it's all one system.
They are controlled.
These people don't control anything.
Presidents on down do not control the system.
It's controlled from above.
It always has been, going back as far as you want to go in this country, and back into the Rockefellers and the J.P.
Morgans and the Rothschilds, however you want to look at it.
But the controlling element of the country is not the government.
The government is pretty much a second or third tier, and they are controlled.
So, you know, it's just like Trump.
I guess, I'm not, like I said, I'm an anarchist, and all that means, so that people don't get confused, is I believe in non-aggression 100%, in that principle.
I don't believe in any restrictive law, and I believe that I should be able to do, and everyone else should be able to do, anything they want to, so long as they're not harming another, or harming their property, or infringing on their liberty in any way.
So, you know, with that attitude, and then I look at the, when people, in my opinion, when people are arguing about which selected corrupt politician should be president, you've lost the argument going in, because none of them are worth having.
And the things that Trump did that people don't talk about, you know, I mean, he stopped funding the WHO.
He became a vaccine monster, wanting everyone to have a vaccine.
He deployed the military to get the vaccine, and he tried to fast-track this RNA vaccine, not non-vaccine.
And then he said he's going to stop funding the WHO, which at that time the U.S.
was funding at about $250 million a year.
And the next day, or the next couple of days, he gives billions to the Gates Foundation, Gavi, who is both Gavi and Gates.
Well, Casey, give us your thoughts.
Yeah, no victim, no crime.
Society or the state cannot be the victim.
And I really agree with a lot of what Gary said, as I do with my anarchist friend.
bad guys, they're all bad guys.
So that's how I look at it.
Well, Casey, give us your thoughts.
Yeah, no victim, no crime, society or the state cannot be the victim.
And I really agree with a lot of what Gary said as I do with my anarchist friend,
I agree with almost everything that his viewpoints, not everything, but a lot of things.
And yeah, I just think it's just, I really can't expound more on what Gary said.
I'm so disheartened with politics and the left-right paradigm.
I really don't even pay it any mind.
I don't really bother with much research, honestly, because I just don't think that's where my energy needs to be.
I'm just more focused on the crux of the situation.
How do we restore liberty?
And of course, like Gary was alluding to, it's just going to take people just, we just have to just say no more.
We're done playing this game.
When that starts to happen, things will change.
But until a right is taken as serious or as soon as a right is taken as seriously as a life, we'll never be free.
That's my opinion.
Well, I take it you may differ from Gary in the following respect.
I presume you participated in the electoral process.
You actually voted in the last election or no?
No, I did not.
I voted for a long time, honestly.
So neither of you are participating in the political process out of dismay that your belief that it's completely corrupt.
Well, may I say something here, Jim?
Because I disagree with that.
I participated by not voting.
I participated by not voting.
To me, the people that are voting are the problem.
Because they've accepted the system.
And if you choose to vote and elect these people, then you put them in office.
If you didn't vote, they wouldn't be there.
The people that didn't vote didn't put anybody there.
My argument is always the opposite of what the norm is.
People that do not vote have a right to speak.
The rest do not.
And that's how I've always looked at it.
And because voting has been a fraud since minute one.
And it's, you know, some sort of a... I mean, the system was set up the way it was set up for a reason.
And all it does is it puts government above everybody by voting these people into power over you.
It puts government in charge and puts government in power over you, and they're seen as a higher entity that has control and that makes all the rules for everyone.
And when you have that attitude and you participate in it, you're part of the problem as far as I see.
And it's not that I go around putting people down for voting, it's just that if they think voting is going to gain them freedom, the opposite is the case.
Well, that's very, very interesting.
I can't say I buy into it.
I'm curious about your attitude toward the Constitution.
I mean, that's what kicked everything off here in the USA.
I have no use for the Constitution.
I've written reams about this.
The Constitution was done in the dark of night.
It was done behind locked doors, in secret, and it was used to usher in The most powerful centralized governing system with power that ever existed, and take a country that had no president, no power to tax at a federal level, and change the entire system to a central power with unlimited power of taxation, controlling money, controlling commerce.
So, I'm with Murray Rothbard, Lysander Spooner, and many, many others of the past.
when it comes to the Constitution. I never have had an appreciation for a piece of paper
that the government drafted, the government controls, and the government is supposed to
protect our rights, when in fact the only way rights are ever protected
is if the people themselves take the initiative and do it.
Well, you describe yourself as an anarchist.
I mean, how are the people supposed to conduct themselves?
Are there supposed to be no behaviors that are enforced by the mechanism of law, where if you violate those constraints in relations to others?
Murder, robbery, kidnapping, rape being some obvious examples.
What are the people supposed to form a posse?
I mean, you're talking about a structureless society.
So, how are you... No, I'm not.
Well, then tell us what you have in mind here.
This is the argument that everybody wants to use.
Anarchy means chaos.
That's not what it means.
Anarchy means without rule.
And it doesn't mean that you can murder people.
It's based on 100% non-aggression.
What I'm saying is, all these things that you're saying that have to be taken care of, do not have to be handled by a governing system that has power.
It has to be handled by the people themselves.
It has to be private.
And when you have a national system where everything is run from the top, it is impossible to have freedom.
And I don't have time to go into every single aspect of how anarchy works.
And I don't expect people in this country to turn around and say, OK, we're just going to get rid of all government.
And they've been trained for their entire lives and for generations to Respect government and I just personally never have so Gary Gary, let me Let me just ask kind of a bottom line question What what what behaviors are not permitted and how is it enforced when those?
Behaviors that are not permitted are committed Well, no behavior that harms another their property is going to be allowed you can't murder or steal Or cheat, or those types of things.
That has to be handled privately, though.
You don't need a government to enforce natural law.
Natural law just means no aggression.
You don't harm anybody, and if you do, there's going to be consequences.
And how you figure that out depends on the societal part of society that you're in, because there are people that want to be controlled, and they want a governing system.
And they want a top-down system that tells them what to do.
And if they want to live that way, I don't have a problem with that.
That's one thing about anarchy.
If they want to have that, they can have it, so long as they don't try to force that on me.
And I don't want to be in that system.
So, you know, it's just, it's why that I am so adamant about secession.
I've always stated that I think every state should secede and then every county should
secede and society should be based on people with people and all enforcement of, you know,
people that are doing bad things has to be done privately as opposed to having some corrupt
and brutal enforcement that's controlled by a governing system that has power over each
individual.
And, you know, this is getting into, you know, kind of a philosophical conversation, which I know you probably don't want to do, but I'm just trying to get across is, government is not the answer to anything.
Gary, I was a professional philosopher for 35 years, okay?
So I care about philosophical issues, including courses I taught on ethics in society and the relationship between law, morality and propriety, for example.
And I'm really at a bit of a loss as to how the kind of structure or non-structure you're describing would possibly function.
But I'm going to let Casey offered his comments, but mentioned to everyone, you're welcome to call in the second hour and ask questions of Gary or Casey.
The number, of course, 540-352-4452.
540-352-4452, with questions for Gary or Casey.
We're getting close to the break, but I'm going to give Casey a chance to say a few remarks before we get there.
Yeah, I think, I mean, are things working right now in our country the way they're supposed to be?
I think probably a lot of us would say no.
But I think the Constitution does, whether or not you agree with whether it's valid or whatever.
Ultimately, I think, and I mean, I've used it as an activist.
I was kicked across the street at Drag Queen Story Hour in Spokane, Washington, and I was, I had a press badge, I had cameras, but I cited Article One Section Five of the Washington State Constitution, freedom of speech, and after 20 minutes I was allowed to go back over and continue to, you know, be a journalist.
Okay, stand by, stand by.
Hold that, hold that, Casey.
We'll pick it up with you after the break.
We'll be right back.
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return you to your host.
Well, this is Jim Fetzer, and I'm here with two guests who have unusual views, meaning
statistically, I think, relatively infrequent.
Gary Barnett, who's an avowed anarchist, and Casey Whelan, who agrees with a whole lot of what he has to say.
Casey, you didn't get a chance to finish your thought when we came up on the break, so I want to invite you to do so, and then we can continue our conversation where anyone who'd like to join in is welcome to call 540-352-4452.
540-352-4452.
Go ahead, Casey.
Yes, ultimately, all I'm trying to say is that, you know, we have the Constitution as a mechanism,
and we need to try to enact that.
And it's ingrained in people's minds that that is the ultimate, that's the law of the land.
So, I mean, that's where I'm coming from.
I think that that's something we have to continue to exercise.
And I don't, like I said, I don't agree with everything that maybe Gary agrees with, but I do agree with him as far as The non-aggression principle and where rights are concerned, you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone kind of mentality and I think that's where this has to go.
A lot of the ordinances and the statutes, etc.
You know, they're enslaving us to some degree, and I don't know how we get back to the true rule of law, but I think it's going to take people exercising their liberties every day, any way they can, because if we're not exercising our rights proactively, you know, what's the point, I guess?
Well, when you talk about exercising our rights, of course, Gary believes that they are, you know, God-given.
The Constitution basically incorporates that concept of unalienable or inalienable rights that no one can justifiably be deprived, but it codifies those rights in the form of a document That creates a structure for society, one in which in this instance has three branches of government, a legislative that passes laws, an executive that enforces them, and a judiciary that interprets them.
And if you don't have a structure, I'm very concerned with how matters devolve to might-make-right.
In other words, the most powerful elements within society are able to simply impose their will because there's no way to cope with it absent a structure that delegates, for example, law enforcement abilities and a judiciary to review and to impose punishment and the like.
Some form of law enforcement and police forces, as they even discovered in Chaz, that bizarre little development in Seattle.
I'm interested, Gary, how do you see it?
Once you get larger than a family unit, and in a family they're typically dominated by the male parent, but in some, the female, whichever more or less has the stronger will or the more dominant personality or character, But even there you can have violations and abuses, child abuse, domestic violence and the like.
There are a whole host of issues even there.
So, once you get to a group that has a number of members larger than some, you know, we can talk about hypothetically different sizes of society, it would appear, which I'm interested in why you think this is not the case, you're going to need some formal allocation of a division of labor, police force, fire department, school system, You know, perhaps the mayor's, local government.
I take it you reject all of that?
Yes.
I don't reject the idea of having enforcement.
There is no real education in this country.
The school system's been used to completely dominate the population, so I would never use that as something that was necessary.
That should be done privately.
But to get back to one other point here, you're talking about having all of this to stop criminal behavior, but the most criminal and most brutal and most murderous of all the criminals is the government and its enforcement arm.
And you're touting using those people to stop the basic population from doing harm.
And the harm, and especially this past year, Well, Gary, I just want to get a little clarification.
from the top-down government, governing system, at every level, down to the local health inspector,
to the president, abusing us.
And we can't use that system as our control system to protect ourselves.
We have to do it individually.
Well, Gary, I just want to get a little clarification.
Are you suggesting all governments historically have been on a par that Paul Pott, for example,
or Mao Zedong are on a par with George Washington, that their governments were all equally abusive and denying
the rights of the citizens?
Or do you draw to some distinction between those various alternatives?
I don't see any point in getting into individual dictators.
But yes, I think all government is abusive.
And I think all government seeks Power and more power and more control.
I think that's been the case for the history of man.
I sure do.
I'm not going to compare George Washington to Pol Pot.
I think that's not a decent argument.
So there's good and bad, but the political class is structured to rule and control.
That is the antithesis of liberty.
So, if you're going to have a governing system that has power over you, you will not retain liberty.
Period.
That will not happen.
It never has.
Well, by offering contrasting examples like that, I'm seeking to assess your critical faculties in evaluating alternative forms of government.
Well, it seems to me you're obliterating really crucial differences, which may be matters a degree, but are sufficiently significant to constitute differences in kind.
We have our first caller today, Paul.
I'm not surprised he's calling in.
I'm sure he'll have a lot to say.
Paul, join the conversation with the three of us today.
Yes, thanks for once again taking my call.
I'm making a surprise appearance today.
I like both of these guests and I agree with them both in most respects.
I particularly enjoy Gary there in Montana.
I like mostly his attitude.
It's funny, though, Jim, early in the interview, I know you're you're just doing your job and asking questions, but I had to laugh when you were asking Gary, well, you know, when you go somewhere and they, you know, ask you to wear a mask, I mean, what should you do?
What should you say?
And I just I just pictured that scene from The Godfather when the the actor who wants the part of the movie is Uh, blabbering and sniveling to, uh, you know, Marlon Brando.
What should I do?
What should I do?
And Marlon Brando slaps him and says, act like a man!
That's the mortician whose daughter has been raped with who, which the whole series begins.
Yes, Paul.
I know it well.
Yeah.
The, my, my other favorite scene is, uh, This is my attitude towards government in general when they
want something from me.
Michael Corleone says to the senator, ìYou can have my offer now, Senator.î
Paul Jay How do you feel about the enforcement of behavioral expectations so we donít simply descend into a
ìmight make rightî where the biggest guy simply dominates everyone else, rapes,
murders, whatever at will?
How do you circumvent the problem?
So this is a, this is a, okay, you killed my, I was ready to go on a little rant or a little run, but that's fine.
I'm going to interrupt it because to answer your question, I think it's silly.
There's not going to be any orgy of raping or murdering or robbing.
This is a ridiculous idea.
And it's always brought up to counter such things as the anarchist argument.
Now, you know I'm not, quote, an anarchist, okay?
And that's a much bigger show and a much longer discussion.
However, the bottom line is this.
Most people, especially in a high trust society like whites established, okay, high IQ, long range planning, low impulse, high impulse control, civilized white people, Don't need all kinds of laws to govern their conduct.
What the guests are referring to mostly is what's known as common law or natural law, which means that as long as I don't interfere with any of your rights or damage any of your property or cause you any harm, there is no cause of action.
Cause of action is the overarching term that we need to keep in mind.
What constitutes a cause of action?
Well, in criminal law, it would be an injury.
An injury, an injured party coming to make a claim.
In contract law, it's a failure to perform.
So in general, the mistaken view that most people have of the law, and this is absurd and I hate it, but you can just go to thehealthyamerican.org and hear Peggy Hall tell you best, no governor can make a law.
No mayor can make a law.
No county health officer can make a law.
An order is the pretense of a law.
A mandate is the pretense of a law.
It is not a law.
As a matter of fact, they say guidance on the website and the county says protocol.
So what's that?
Do we have courts of law or do we have courts of protocol?
Do we have courts of guidance?
The whole thing is nonsense.
This is just a great exhibition in the stupidity and the cowardice of the average American person.
To me, it's no end of frustration.
I'm exactly on board with both of these guests saying that defiance is the answer.
Disobedience is the answer.
However, here where I'm at, I don't see it.
Instead, what I see is weakness, cowardice, and stupidity, and it's made me into even a more contemptuous and disdainful person than I already was.
It just confirmed all my suspicions.
So I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, if people die from wearing too many masks, and if people die from the vaccines, in my opinion, That's not a bad thing.
Then they're out of the way, and the rest of us can be free.
Because the more people that are willing to take this and get it over with, then now what that leaves is the people that are unwilling, the people that are willing to stand up and fight, and they're going to have a much bigger problem controlling us.
So for now, I'll let it go at that.
There's more, of course.
Well, Paul, far be it for me to rein in one of your rants.
You seem to manage to get it out there regardless.
So my, you know, such efforts or inclination as I might have, which are few, aren't going to make a difference anyway.
The point is you're talking about the law.
Gary doesn't believe in law.
Gary does not believe in law.
So it seems to me you're a victim.
The question I'm raising, which is non-trivial, you say they always say that.
Well, this isn't they, this is me, and I'm saying it because it's appropriate to the context.
How do you take a society managed to deal with various forms of behavior which are not sympathetic to one another, that involve bona fide harms being committed by some members of the society upon others?
How do we deal with that?
I'll answer.
Stop.
Stop.
I'll answer.
It's simple.
Okay?
Listen.
Here's a simple question.
Don't laugh at this example.
Because it's real.
All right?
Jim, in your life, in your life, have you ever raped anybody?
No.
Have you ever burglarized a house?
No.
Have you ever broken into somebody's car?
No.
So on.
Need I go on?
Was it the law that stopped you from doing that?
No.
So the bottom line is this.
Having laws is fine.
There's nothing wrong with having laws.
We don't really need them in the sense that we have legislatures in the states and federally full-time passing more and more laws which are nothing more than the distribution of money and the protection of monopolies.
That's all laws are for.
I knew this almost 30 years ago.
I was able with the help and encouragement of others to take a look into things and use in my own mind that I was in business for myself and I started to figure it out.
All these laws are for the most part is the preservation and protecting of monopolies and the crushing of competition.
The vast majority of laws we don't need, we never needed.
Congress could go home tomorrow.
How would it affect your life?
How would it affect my life?
I made this point on the show many times before and it's absolutely a fact if you're honest with yourself.
The vast majority of us live our lives and the only interaction we ever have with government is a traffic ticket.
If you pay your income taxes, and I encourage you not to, because it's not hard to do.
I haven't done it for over 30 years, nothing to it.
But if you pay your income taxes, you do that through the mail, usually, or electronically.
So you have basically no interaction except for a traffic ticket or pulling a permit at the building department.
Other than that, the whole idea of government is conceptual.
It's a TV soap opera, so I don't pay it any attention.
Paul, I think you're long on slogans and weak on facts.
There's all kinds of lawlessness pervading society.
The question is, if you don't have a government, which is what Gary is advocating, How do you deal with it?
You're implying that everyone's going to behave toward one another in a suitable, appropriate and moral fashion, but that is far removed from reality.
It's just a fantasy.
So, you know, please hold back on your insults because I'm asking a serious question in the context of a guest who does not believe in government and does not believe in law.
Gary.
Okay.
Let me jump in here if you don't mind.
With full respect, Jim, to you, you're mischaracterizing what I'm saying.
I don't believe in restricted law coming from a government.
Governments have no right to tell me what I can or can't do.
Bad behavior is bad behavior.
That can be handled privately.
You don't need a governing system to Take care of people who are aggressive and are harming others.
This is what people with any intelligence can take care of on their own.
You don't need a government to build a road and waste all the money.
You don't need a government to steal all your money and spend it where they want to spend it.
You don't need to have millions and millions of restrictive laws to protect government
and the corporate structure.
So when I'm not saying that, when you say I don't believe in any laws, I don't believe in government restrictive laws.
I believe in non-aggression, which means if somebody is doing these things that you're talking about, the raping and pillaging and murdering, yes, they have to be taken care of.
It just doesn't need to be a government system.
When you're asking government to uphold law, you're asking the most corrupt, the most
evil lawbreakers on earth to control law.
That is insane to me. Well, short words. Yeah, it's just a trivial blunder to infer
that every government is necessarily corrupt as you are doing.
Then, since we're opposed to corruption, and by your standard, every government is necessarily corrupt, we don't want to have a government.
You say it can be all done privately.
Well, what in the world do you mean by that?
We can have our own private lynching.
We can have our own private beheading.
What the hell do you mean by that?
And if it's private, who decides?
Who decides what punishment is inflicted and why?
Well, oh my gosh.
You know, I could send you about 500 pages that would explain this.
I can't tell you this all at one time here on the show, but I'm not speaking, you're making claims, you know, human beings are incredibly inferior, you know, things.
I mean, people are not perfect.
But you don't need to appoint a corrupt government.
And no one has ever, in my lifetime, shown me a government that wasn't corrupt.
I have never seen one.
I've been around 69 years.
I've been studying this since I was a child.
And there is no government that is not corrupt.
And it's not that every single human in the government is corrupt, but the system, when you have a system, with power over others.
They will abuse that power.
This has been known for thousands of years.
This is what happens.
I'm talking about a decent society where people get together that want to be together, and they control their own circumstances, and they have their own enforcement.
And they, if they need something done, they can get together and get it done or not.
But that's, you know, like I said, this is a conversation that is not going to happen in an hour.
So, you know, I'm just trying to get across that, you know, you're saying I don't believe in this and I don't believe in that.
I just don't believe in restrictive law.
I don't believe in government power over the people.
I believe that, I don't believe people are just naturally all good.
I just think, as Paul's saying, you know, you and I and Casey and Paul aren't out raping and pillaging every day.
Some people tend to do that, and I'll guarantee you that most of that, much of that is based on the fact that government does have restrictive law, and they do protect the monopolies, and they do protect the corporations.
It's a complete protectionist practice.
So when you have the government destroying people's lives for smoking a plant, and 85% of everybody in prison has never harmed another human being, and you have the largest prison system in the world here of people who never harmed anybody, and you have a government that is... And anyone that's alive today and thinks that government is good after seeing this worldwide...
Let me ask Gary a question.
They are really in a state of blindness in my eyes.
Gary, let me ask you a question.
I think everybody understands, including Jim, that we can agree with this on a conceptual level.
I agree with it.
Sure.
Let's make it more hardware oriented for Jim, I believe.
Would you say that there should be, for example, a courthouse, like a county courthouse,
and there maybe should be a citizen's grand jury, and things like that,
an actual, some sort of a criminal justice structure that would be controlled by the local population?
You would be in agreement with that?
By the local, yes, by the population, not by a government court.
Government courts are government- Well, okay, but see, this is the word,
this is the term that you keep using, and this is my problem with a lot of anarchists,
which sooner or later you have to designate, okay, for example, a sheriff.
Now, obviously, a sheriff is going to have a certain amount of authority.
He would be government.
Would you be opposed to a sheriff?
Well, I don't think you have to have a government sheriff.
I think if you have a society... Okay, so this is where I'm more on the side of... Well, wait a minute.
No, I think you hire what enforcement is necessary for your particular needs.
And that enforcement works for the people.
They have no power over anybody.
So if somebody doesn't harm another, they have no right to redress them, to go after them, or do anything with anyone.
This is the problem.
It's the way it's handled.
Yes, enforcement is going to be necessary, but the people that are doing the enforcing have got to be accountable directly to the people that they're protecting and not use aggression.
And that's where I'm coming from.
But here's the problem.
Way out there in Montana, things are different, but in a large, very dense and fairly complex society such as where I'm at, okay?
In the Bay Area in California, all the people are not going to be involved.
Most people are not going to know what's going on, except for maybe on their street or a couple of streets over.
So there's only going to be so sooner or later, somebody has to be designated.
So essentially the function of government, in my eyes, to designate certain people with certain limited powers.
We go back to the original concept of the government and the Constitution.
I'm mostly in agreement with you about the Constitution.
And Lysander Spooner is a brilliant guy, and Jim, if you're not familiar with the Constitution of No Authority, it's a good read.
I don't agree with it at all.
But here's the problem that we get to, is that sooner or later we have to have somebody that is designated or authorized, otherwise it's just a bunch of gangs.
You know, it would be just a bunch of warlords, and they would hire privately people to go take care of people that, you know, they felt violated by, or that they didn't like, or they didn't like.
Well, so I think in my opinion, I think there has to be an overarching authority.
OK, but there's always going to be degrees of corruption.
But the structure of the system is set up in which way?
It's government has limited powers.
People have all rights.
And this is what I've kept telling people for years.
And it's it's mostly true and it's supposed to be true.
People have all rights.
Government has limited powers and those powers are designated.
Okay, go ahead.
Well, they might be designated, but they're not followed.
That's another story, but yes.
Hey Casey, come on back in.
Casey, give us your further thoughts.
Yeah, I'm just interested in the conversation.
Just very interesting.
I was going to say, as far as what Paul mentioned earlier about Peggy Hall, I'm going to come back to you again.
We're hit with a break.
She's suggested basically if you're if you're denied wearing a mask and a
Base, I'm gonna come back to you again. We're hit with a break. We'll be right back
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Well, this is Jim Fetzer with my two guests today, Gary Barnett and Casey Whelan, with
Paul calling in.
Casey, you are in the midst of making some points in response to the previous conversation.
Go ahead.
Yeah, sure.
I don't want to maybe get too deep into the topic.
That's kind of I'm just an activist.
That's kind of a little bit outside of what I'm what I'm trying to do.
But one of the things that I have done that Paul mentioned Peggy Hall and the Healthy American.
I tried to go to my local courthouse a number of times without a mask on.
And they will not let you in the courthouse, period.
And per the U.S.
Department of Justice, if there's any sort of civil rights violation, Peggy Hall had put together a little bit of information where you can contact the U.S.
DOJ and let them know about it.
So I did that.
I did hear back from the U.S.
Department of Justice.
And basically nothing happened after that.
But you do have to be a bit proactive.
Another thing that they're doing, just to show how they're ignoring the Constitution in the state of Idaho, the Idaho Supreme Court, Chief Justice Burdick, basically passed, they canceled all jury trials until actually just a couple days ago, until March 1st.
So from November to March, we had no jury trials.
There were no criminal jury trials in the state of Idaho.
So, they continue to blatantly ignore the Idaho State Constitution and the Constitution on a number of occasions since this COVID thing has started.
So, I think ultimately people just, we have to get not, you know, mass civil non-compliance.
That's where, that's the only thing that's going to fix this and that's only going to happen until people are affected personally.
Okay, Paul, I'll get back to you.
We have a second caller here who's joined us.
Scaredy Cat, please do give us your thoughts, Scaredy.
Hi, Jim, and hello everybody, Gary, Casey, and Paul.
So, I'm actually agreeing with everybody, even though there are some opposite things being said.
So, one thing, Gary, absolutely correct.
Let's secede from everything.
As Oregon is showing us, the people there were outraged at the burning and looting and all the overly loony left politics and whatever their ideas are about living life.
And so I think about five counties are trying to secede from Oregon and joining
Idaho because it is more to their liking. So I do agree that we should, every county should
secede, everybody should secede from everything and try to then, upon secession, then
reorganize themselves. Kind of like a child game where you find, you know, the person you like or your
partner on the other side of the room in a gym or something. So, however, that is a massive thing
to do and it won't get done in It'll be like you're trying to kill me, kill me with kindness.
You want so good and perfect, a beautiful life for me, of total freedom, that you're not willing to engage in something smaller, in some small improvement in my life.
So I would just suggest That's something that, for example, in my little township, it takes 1 50th, so 5 0 of the value of my house, and puts it in the teacher's pockets by force.
It's a tax.
That's the school tax.
So it's basically being done with a gun being pointed at me, which is what a tax is.
It's done through violence of governmental threat.
And so 1 1 50th.
So that in 50 years, I will have paid to the school teachers, by force, who don't teach properly, that is, teaching has become one of the filthiest professions, especially in America, but around the world, probably.
So after 50 years, so I've lived here almost 30, we've lived here, our family, almost 35 years in this little township.
In 15 more years, I will have paid to the school teachers, or actually my husband.
He did all the hard work of earning the money.
So, he will have paid the whole price of an entire house.
And everybody living here does that.
And not only that, it's one, a little bit less... Sorry, go ahead.
Go ahead, Scary.
Go ahead, finish your talk.
Well, I'm just letting her know what everybody knows.
This is an important point!
Okay, she's talking about property tax, and the bottom line is property tax is another tax that is voluntary that you don't have to pay.
Look into it.
Spend a little bit of time online.
There's all kinds of people will show you how not to pay property tax.
Just how you don't have to pay income tax either.
It's an illusion.
So I'm sorry to rain on the parade here, but I understand why she's saying what she's saying, and if she's indeed referring to property tax, This is another complete and total hornswoggle of the public based upon... Paul, I'm going to tell you what I've told you several times before.
When you interfere with other people, I don't like it, and I'm going to give you the boot if you continue to do that.
You offend me, you offend my callers, and I don't like it.
I give you plenty of time to say you're peaceful.
You are abusing the opportunity, the privilege.
I don't like it.
Scary.
Go ahead.
Hey, Jim.
Hey, Jim.
That's okay.
Maybe what Paul can do, see, I was actually jealous of when he used to mention that his clipboard, when he's out and around town.
I said, oh my gosh, if I could have Paul's clipboard.
So, and I know people nowadays, I know their good intentions when they say, or research it for yourself.
Well, this is why we're talking.
I don't really want to invent an obvious wheel if something has been done already for people's benefit.
So if you already know the laws or the general ideas, just don't, I think we really shouldn't keep asking people,
you know, go read this book, go read that book.
Yes, mention a very, very good book, but don't keep throwing out.
Contact me and I'll tell you what to do.
OK.
But.
I'll tell Jim my number and maybe... There's nothing wrong with that interruption, Jim.
That's okay, Jim.
Jim, you're good.
You're good.
Paul's not.
I'm really pissed off about this.
Drop Paul and bring in 720 area code.
720.
Join the conversation.
Drop Paul.
Drop Paul.
720, join the conversation.
Hey, it's Sal in Colorado.
How you doing, Scary Cat?
Please go ahead.
Well, I gotta say, if you find an accountant that shady, you can certainly avoid paying property tax and income tax, but well, I don't like it any more than the rest of us that have to pay these things, but it's just There are just too many things that we really are responsible for, and you know, I don't like it either, but you have to be as responsible as you can.
There are other more important things to stand up for, like your right not to wear a mask.
Tell me what you think about, Casey, the argument for no government.
Does that sound very plausible to you?
No, because let's just say that they want to secede.
Well, there's still so much of an infrastructure that's relying on it.
The government overreach is way too far, but unfortunately, Along with that overreach, there are people that have, like you, who are veterans, people who are disabled, and they've worked their whole lives to get the benefits that they've paid into for the government.
So, if they were to just decide not to have government anymore, that will hurt a lot of people that have worked their whole lives to get the benefits they've paid into for Social Security Administration.
And even though, at the rate we're going, there won't be much of that left for those in the future, I can see how it would be very challenging for people in that situation to have to deal with that.
they'd be forced to move. Yeah, it seems to me that Gary and to some extent Casey and perhaps
to some extent Paul are all committing the mistake of looking at a system that may be flawed and have
imperfections and rejecting it because it has flaws of imperfections when it needs reform
rather than repudiation.
We all want Society the way it ought to be.
We all want honest judges, honest cops, honest government officials, but the fact that in real life you frequently don't have that is something we have to deal with and seek to improve the system rather than simply repudiate it.
This appears to me to be the flaw in Gary's arguments about, you know, no government, no laws, what have you, that we'll just do it privately, whatever that means, because if you don't specify the processes or the procedures by means of which punishments and rewards are going to be allocated, then you really Or leaving it up to the subjective preferences and whims of individuals, which is akin to a monarchy where the king can decree whatever the king wants, and where you're ignoring the fact that the basic problem with which morality and the law has to deal is that otherwise the most powerful can inflict their will upon the less powerful.
And we're having that happen right here in the U.S.
with the coronavirus and the move toward the Great Reset and all that, where ordinary humans are being treated as chattel, as subject to elimination, massive depopulation, so that the few can dominate the Earth.
Now, that's wholly objectionable, and we ought to fight it with every fiber of our being, but they're right now in the position where they're so powerful that they can inflict Well, that's absolutely right.
Most of us.
I want your thoughts about that critique and then I'll come back to Casey and to Gary.
Well, that's absolutely right.
It's important that people that don't like the way things are go to their congresspeople
and go to their senates and write some letters and make their positions known because if
enough of us rise up against these things, then we can change them.
Think about kind of like five years ago, there was that water bucket challenge to pour water on your head for some reason.
That got caught fire on social media and everybody poured ice water on themselves for cancer or something like that.
Just think what would happen if we did this for something important that affects Our lives and our liberty and our freedom.
Yes, yes, yes.
Well, I want to go back to Scaredy first, because she's had the least time of all.
So Scaredy, please do give us your further thoughts.
Yeah, so especially Casey, I think, because I find Casey, you are in between of the various edges, the two opposite edges of the discussion here.
So it's not that hard to vote, Casey.
Just go down, drive down there, might take an hour or two out of your life, then tick off a piece of paper with a pen, and you're done.
Because the problem with not voting is that those, there are feats of power with authority figures Real persons who have their bums firmly attached to those soft cushions.
Now we need to get somebody like Casey, somebody like Gary, somebody like Jim, somebody, I'm afraid I missed 720, 720, somebody like 720, somebody like Paul, in those seats of power.
And you know how we have like 535 legislators maybe, A hundred health officers, 50 governors.
And Mitchell, Mitchell is the other one we need to get in there, into a seat of power.
And maybe one million teachers, half a million policemen.
See, these are done by, these are like automatically cushy connections to people we don't want.
Not all of them, but there are some good teachers.
There are some good policemen, of course.
But they are becoming more and more of a filthy profession.
And so I was actually thinking more.
So this is one thing.
One very easy thing.
Maybe two hours out of the year.
It doesn't take any energy.
You don't even have to study the candidates a lot.
Just go with your instinct at that moment.
And then just press some buttons.
So that will, you know, just by the sheer number of the votes, That will affect at least a couple of good people getting into power.
And also, the second thing is maybe more towards Gary, if you would help me.
So not so much the tax evasion.
I'm really frightened.
You know my name, the frightened feline, right?
So just for everybody openly and publicly, maybe help, for example, the schools who The worst people now are going to be the teachers who are going to harm our children, and even today are harming our children, by insisting on, oh, the kid, like a lively, bright child, should take, oh, he needs medication.
Like, doing those kind of recommendations.
And then, of course, masking the children.
So, right now, we need, not to avoid public health, but in general, to reduce it for everybody.
Me, not just gaining the benefits, The second part of the school thing, because I think that is the main thrust, that is one of the highest thrusts we need.
I'm trying to let other people have a turn from Russia.
You're fine.
You're fine, Stephanie.
The second part of the school thing, because I think that is the main thrust, that
is one of the highest thrusts we need.
Maybe the number one are after masks and injections, poison chemical injections.
That is urgent, which is happening this minute, and how to cancel the mandatory testing,
and convince and helping people understand who are volunteering
So that is the number one public threat to our human family on this planet.
Number two, a little bit alongside.
Don't do one and wait for some great victory and then say, oh, I'll postpone my energy to the second.
Just try to do a lot of things in parallel.
Of course, dividing up our energy.
But I believe the number two thing should be You know, decreasing school teachers' powers.
And before we got kind of involved, I was gonna say bogged down, but I don't,
Paul is great, so I don't want to, I love hearing him.
And just before we got involved in tax discussion, just open up teaching in an entrepreneurial way.
So instead of giving away, you know, the 150th the price of your house,
and I'm living in a township after 50 years, you've given the whole price of the house away.
She's a great person.
Just reduce that, and then the extra money that parents have in their pocket, help us with some entrepreneurship.
There's so many millions of people who are good in math and carpentry, people working with their hands, who have Huge knowledge and an instinct, because they're doing it on the fly.
An electrician, an artist, a musician, a gardener.
I call these the VIPs.
This is way more important than VIPs.
Of course, the VIPs are junk people.
We should say VIJP.
We are very important junk people.
But really, VIP is the most key, which I just call it as very important thing.
So, okay.
Thank you.
Thank you, Scaredy.
Let me bring in Gary first.
Go ahead, Gary.
Well, I don't know what you want me to say.
I didn't plan on getting into a philosophical conversation, and I really don't want to go there with two minutes.
I'm going to go back to my original point, which is the solution.
If people want to be free, they have to make it happen.
No one's going to do it for them.
No government's going to protect them.
People have got to start disobeying en masse, or we're going to face a future that is just Atrocious.
And, you know, that's all I have to say.
Casey, your thoughts here.
We are approaching the end, but we have about five minutes or more.
Go ahead.
Your thoughts.
All right.
Thank you.
Thank you, Scaredy.
I'll take those comments to heart.
I guess it's just a personal decision on my part as far as voting or not voting and experiences over the years and that sort of thing.
But I want to say to Jim, I have been proactively promoting the Constitution.
As far as my activism is concerned, and I have received 120 full-size constitutions from the Secretary of State, and I would take those constitutions into the police stations and the Sheriff's Department.
And I guess part of the reason why I'm a little bit turned off by voting is because the law
enforcement community essentially they have something in the area called Regional Intelligence
Group 9.
And they put out these reports that they disseminate to all the law enforcement agencies in a number
of counties.
And they have me in two of those that I did, I received through public records request
walking in the police station or sheriff's department with a stack of constitutions saying
be on the lookout.
And I would go into the sheriff's department and the police stations with a camera and
record them.
But it was always just I'm just trying to make sure you guys are following the constitution.
So it's just disturbing to see through activism how the rule of law is just blatantly disregarded.
So one of the things I want to mention really, really quick if I could before the end of the show is the state of Idaho is having something called, it's a mass burning.
There's mass burning sites throughout the state of Idaho and you can get information on this by going to FreeIdaho.org for a number of burn sites throughout the state where you can take your mask, or any emergency orders or mandates and you can burn them at a burn site.
That is on March 6th.
All day.
I think that's fascinating.
I love it.
Mask burning.
Skarity, do you want to have a final thought here?
I'm so glad you joined us.
Yeah, Jim.
Bring Paul back.
Maybe not today.
We just have a minute, but He's wonderful, and I know you agree with me on that.
And just, Gary, you know, people might say you are on a far edge, but I do agree with your sentiments.
I mean, they're wonderful.
So if you cannot proceed in practice from an actual local government, like we have to
follow some rules, secede in your minds.
Like think of, I think that's what you're saying.
First, each person must decide to secede in their minds from corruption.
So secede from corruption.
And then pick up one small action that, as you said, as we decide each soul, we decide
for ourselves what to do.
But then, I don't know my local people that well.
Like, if I get arrested and sent to jail, I don't know a friend who's going to bail me out.
So, try to make some friendships and let people know.
So, that's step three.
First, secede in your mind from corruption.
Step two, decide on a small action.
Step three is let some people, even if you don't know them, I'm starting to talk to my neighbors.
Thank goodness there's some places there's no school, so people are walking, doing their daily walks in the sunshine a little bit more.
So even if I don't know them, I'm going up and saying hi, and then eventually, maybe in a month or two, I might tell them this is what I'm going to do.
And can you just park secretly in a Gary Barnett and Gacy Wayland, I want to thank you both for being here.
by somebody punches me or something, just at least even if you don't want to give yourself away,
at least maybe call somebody who can come and help me, something like that.
Please.
I always enjoy having you here.
Gary Barnett and Gacy Wayland, I want to thank you both for being here.
I thought you were excellent in presenting and defending your points of view.
However much I may take exception, I welcome your coming on the show.
I'd like to say I think everyone should go to my blog and check out the reports about the masks, especially the 20 ways in which wearing masks are doing harm, and write letters to the editors.
Send them to teachers.
Send them to your school principal.
Send them to your mayors.
Get it out to your state representatives.
Eventually go to Congress, send them just whatever you think from the heart, based upon what you understand, to be the damage that's being inflicted by these horrible masks.
I love the idea of burning masks in Idaho.
I support it 100%.
We're doing tremendous damage to our children.
Damage that's going to affect them for the rest of our lives.
It is all wrong.
It is all unjustified.
And in addition to the article about the 20 reasons masks are doing harm, you'll find a summary there from Elsie, one of the great scientific publishers of the world, about the latest scientific studies.
There's much, much more.
Do something about it.
You can do it from your computer.
Or you can get a stamp and write a letter.
But let your voice be heard.
Our children deserve it.
We need it.
It's for the future of the nation.
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