Shannon Rowan suffers from electro sensitivity and lives off the grid in Northern California. She is the author of several books including The Red Shoes: Our Devil’s Dance With Technology. She chats to James about the perils of EMF. Her website is https://wifi-refugee.com↓ ↓ ↓Tickets are now available for the James x Dick Christmas Show 2025 on Saturday, 6th December. See website for details:https://www.jamesdelingpole.co.uk/Shop/?section=events#events↓ ↓ ↓Brand Zero is a small skincare and wellbeing business based in Nailsworth in the heart of Gloucestershire, with a strong eco-friendly, zero-waste, cruelty-free ethos. Brand Zero sells a range of wonderfully soothing natural skincare, haircare, toothcare and wellbeing products, mostly hand made, with no plastic packaging or harsh chemicals. All our products are 100% natural and packaged in recyclable or compostable tin, paper or glass.
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↓ ↓ How environmentalists are killing the planet, destroying the economy and stealing your children’s future.
In Watermelons, an updated edition of his ground-breaking 2011 book, James tells the shocking true story of how a handful of political activists, green campaigners, voodoo scientists and psychopathic billionaires teamed up to invent a fake crisis called ‘global warming’.This updated edition includes two new chapters which, like a geo-engineered flood, pour cold water on some of the original’s sunny optimism and provide new insights into the diabolical nature of the climate alarmists’ sinister master plan.Purchase Watermelons by James Delingpole here: https://jamesdelingpole.co.uk/Shop/↓ ↓ ↓
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Welcome to the Delling Pod with me James Dellingpole and as you can tell by my Christmas not Christmas really jumper I'm going to talk to you about the excitement the thrill of my forthcoming Dick and James Christmas special.
It's round about two weeks a bit over two weeks to go before the party starts and I don't want you to be one of those people who misses out on what is undoubtedly one of the highlights of the year.
So many lovely people that you're going to adore if you don't know them already are going to be there in the adoring crowds watching me and Dick on stage and also watching the unregistered chickens of course beforehand.
And there's going to be some names and faces that you know.
Clive de Karl is going to be there with his magical chair and they're going to be people selling stuff that you want to buy on stools, you know, sort of magical potions, unguants and things like that.
And it's going to be fun.
I mean obviously I'm going to be good, Dick's going to be good, but you really come to these things to meet like-minded folks.
So get your tickets now.
I'm afraid to say that the evil Illuminati scumbag tickets, the VIP tickets as they were called before I changed the name, they've sold out.
But it doesn't matter.
I love you ordinary humble folk who just buy the ordinary humble tickets just as much.
In fact, maybe I'll like you more because you're horny handed sons of toil.
Anyway, please come and be there.
I think it'll be such fun.
I love seeing you.
It's on, I didn't mention the date, did I?
December the 6th.
Saturday, December the 6th.
And I haven't mentioned the other exciting thing.
You'll probably want to stay overnight and it's lovely countryside roundabout.
And the next day, I've commandeered the church service.
I'm going to decide what the hymns are going to be.
It's a really, really lovely church.
And if you fancy coming with me to the, it's the 9.15 communion service.
But I'm going to choose the hymns so there won't be any rubbish.
So it's Advent.
So we're going to get stuff like, I'm going to make sure we're going to get Ocum Emmanuel and Hills of the North Rejoice.
And maybe some other ones that we know and like.
You've got to be there, haven't you?
Got to be there.
December the 6th, Dick and James's Christmas special.
See you there.
I love Dellingpole.
Go and subscribe to the podcast, baby.
I love Delling Pole.
And listen on the town, subscribe with me.
To the Delling Pod with me, James Dellingpole.
And I know I always say, I'm excited about this week's special guest.
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Enjoy.
Welcome to the Delling Pod, Shannon Rowan.
Can I congratulate you first of all, Shannon, on your persistence and your politeness in penetrating the impenetrable barrier that is my replying to my emails?
I'm hopeless.
But you managed to get through to me and actually arrange a time when we could speak.
Yes, divided as we are by time zones.
That's right.
It has been a challenge with the time zones.
Thank you, James.
I'm just really delighted to be here and I'm just glad we worked it out.
Well, do you know what, Shannon?
I mean, I am, as you may or may not be aware, I'm famed for my lack of research.
And I couldn't remember whether you were a man or a woman.
I thought, well, Shannon's the kind of name that an American man might have, but more likely it's a woman.
So lovely to meet you.
Yes.
You're wearing a hat.
Oh, yeah.
You're in Northern California.
Is it quite cold there at the moment?
Oh, yeah.
It's a little chilly.
And I'm in an unheated space at the moment.
But I'm also kind of a hat person.
So I'm just, I usually have a hat.
Hats are good.
As one of your famous bands once said, all the leaves are brown and the sky is grey.
And I imagine that's what it's like right now.
A bit like that.
Yeah.
And although it's a lot of greenery because we have a lot of evergreens.
So those leaves don't go brown.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I once had this t-shirt called something like Keep Feds Out of Was it Marion County?
What's the big weed growing county in Northern California?
Well, Humboldt.
It's a big one.
Yeah, I'm even farther north.
So we're at like the border with Oregon.
I've been there.
Oh, you have?
driven up across the border i've been to uh eureka and i've been to what's what's the northernmost Crescent City.
Crescent City.
I didn't get to Crescent City.
That's the closest to us on the coast.
Okay.
Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
No, no, no, no.
You interrupt all you like.
I'm feeling the reason I'm kind of wrapped up, I mean, apart from, well, we're just starting the beginnings of winter.
I've got a cold and I'm feeling sorry for myself.
And maybe this is a good time to be doing the podcast because I can't think straight to write any articles.
I'm just very, very cross because I'm going to have to miss the first day of the hunting season, which is not a good thing.
Because obviously, a man should be doing that kind of thing.
We should talk about your excellent book, which I have here: The Red Shoes, which is a magnum opus.
And it's very well written.
I've actually read quite a bit of it.
It's all interesting.
But I suppose if we had to sum it up, it's why technology, electronic technology particularly, is just ruining everything and killing us.
Is that a fair summary?
Yeah.
And I want to tell people, because I hate this you're anti-tech thing, because obviously there's technologies, everything's a technology.
A book is a technology.
I mean, if you want to put it that way.
But what I'm referring to is harmful technology.
I'm anti-harmful technology.
I'm anti-technology that's harming us.
So that's really what I think the book is about.
If you're right about the root, I learned this from your book.
Oh, that's right.
If you are right about the root derivation of the word technology, the second heart comes from information imparted by gods.
Yes.
Doesn't it?
Yes, this is.
Which to me means that basically it's demonic.
Because, I mean, the Greek gods were, as you know, probably, fallen angels.
So almost by definition, there's no such thing as good technology because it's all given to us by the bad guys.
You're right.
Yeah, that's true.
I guess what I mean other people's definitions, because people end up using that as an umbrella term for like all of our tools, which doesn't have to be, because really tools aren't really necessarily technology.
But it ends up like I hear people kind of referring to everything as a technology now.
Maybe that's a way to kind of confuse everything and like, yeah, and like divert our attentions from what you're just saying.
Like, yeah, tech, from knowledge from the gods or something, technology.
I think, Shannon, you're among friends here.
You're not going to have to say.
Well, you said that technology is all bad.
And actually, I think that was the same.
Before we go on, I want to learn more about you.
I know that you are a keen surfer, which has got to be a good thing.
Have you ever seen any great white sharks while surfing?
Thankfully, no.
But I know they're out there.
So I try not to think about it.
Yeah, they are.
They swim between the kelp, don't they?
Yeah, we don't have kelp up here anymore because it was wiped out by some, oh gosh, something died off and then something else took over.
And, you know, so the kelp is like way far south.
But I swim in a more sheltered area.
So there's like, what I've learned is you're not supposed to, I mean, sorry, surf on like where there's really open stretches of beach, like, you know, without kind of, so it's a little more sheltered where I surf.
I have met surfers who go to like the more open areas and I met one.
He showed me his board.
He put eyes on the underneath of it and made black and white stripes because if they see eyes, they think it's another predator.
And if they see like the black and white, they think of orcas.
And he says he like maneuvers his board like a shark too so that he doesn't look like he's prey.
So, yeah, I know.
He's thought it all through.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I hope his method works.
It keeps working, rather.
I mean, because he was out there with definitely seals, which means there are probably sharks around.
I watched one day.
I was like, well, and that's that's a, I'm not at that level.
That was some crazy surf I saw him in.
And he was the only one out there.
So that's why I end up chatting with him about that.
He showed me his methods.
So I think we had a surfer on the other day, Fred Paul, talking about Australia and how the insane Australians, the sort of the eco-loons, are now valuing the lives of sharks more than they are of humans.
Yeah.
And there is something about surfing which is, well, I think all these activities where you get immersed in nature and probably where the technology, to use that word, hasn't changed much.
I mean, look, when I go hunting, I'm on a horse.
The tech hasn't changed much in centuries.
The mechanics of riding a horse have been unchanged since, what, since the beginning of time.
Surfing you're out in the sea.
I think one of the things I loved about your book is it's a plea for us to try and reclaim what really matters in life and get rid of all this digital prison that we've allowed to be erected around us.
We've actually chosen the digital prison, haven't we?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I do try to remind people what we're losing, what we're compromising, because I don't think we haven't thought this through.
It's just, well, it's been pushed on us majorly, you know, and to the point where now it's like a necessity, you know, for everything.
I mean, think back just 20 years ago, it was an option.
These things were optional.
You didn't even have to have a personal computer.
A personal computer was like a luxury item or for nerds or whatever.
Like you didn't, nobody had them.
And think about now, like everybody has them, or they at least have the smartphone.
And these were all optional things.
And it's no longer optional.
The internet was optional to use or not use.
And these things are not optional anymore.
I mean, almost every job you can think of, even like a farm job, I mean, everything, you know, is tied into this now.
And to this very vulnerable system, too.
So it's frightening because it's like we're so dependent now that, I mean, the internet goes down a few hours, people freak out, you know, panic.
It's like, so what have we done?
And we're not making conscious decisions about our use and what this is, what the trade-off is.
The example that struck a chord with me, it's a very simple example you gave, was this thing where when you go to restaurants now, they don't give you a menu.
You have to use your phone to take the picture thing of the thingy code, whatever they're called.
I mean, for my generation, this is all a bit kind of newfangled and not welcome.
I like the physical, I like the heft of a menu, or I like the design on the paper.
The type setting.
And I don't want to see this on a screen.
I look at my screen often enough anyway.
And yet hotels and restaurants now seem to think this is, oh, this is what they want.
They want to stare at their screen some more.
And the gas pumps, you know.
Yeah, it's like screens at the gas pump, huge ones.
And they're bigger and bigger.
You know, I go to the ATM and it's this massive screen now.
Like, I don't need to touch everything.
You know, and I have this in my book too, this call, a touch event when you touch the screens and there's this interaction that happens like with your EMFs in the screen and in your body, like you're creating a circuit.
It's electrical.
And we don't even think about how that affects us.
Right.
Yeah.
So it's like you're touching it.
I mean, how does that even work?
People don't even think, how does this work that I'm touching a screen and this is happening?
Right.
So there's some kind of exchange going on there.
And I don't remember the details of exactly how it works.
I do have that in my book.
But yeah, this like more screens, more screens.
Simultaneously, while we're being told our planet's in perilous danger and the climate sup and everything and we need to be eco everything and somehow the tech has become the vehicle for like making this happen and the planet greener, which doesn't make any sense.
If it's about energy use, all electronics need energy, more of it.
More power, more mining, more resources, more data centers, more and more and more.
So shouldn't we be doing less, less, less of that?
Wouldn't it be a lot more sustainable to go back to analog technologies that are not technologies, analog systems, you know, that are don't need energy, don't need this.
Like we use so much electricity and it's just putting more demands for that and it's creating more markets for it.
So all this is just greenwashing.
It's like the energy thing.
Green energy is all completely bogus.
And that's going to be another book of mine.
I do have a hefty chapter about that in this book, but I'm planning to do another book just exclusively about these so-called green energy.
Yeah.
Green energy, what's the rest of the title?
Green Energy is Death.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Green energy.
Green energy.
Black Satanic Heart.
There we go.
Green Energy.
I was just going to call it Operation Greenwash.
Green Trees.
Right.
Yeah, well, I'm just throwing a few ideas out there.
I was glad that you chucked wind turbines into the mix.
I absolutely hate turbines.
In fact, you know how people say, like, if you could have three wishes, what would you do?
And, you know, I'm not going to go for world peace.
I'm going to go for the destruction of every single wind turbine in the world, as if they had never been.
Yes.
Yeah, it would be amazing.
I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous.
They don't even produce energy.
There's like a net negative energy when it all comes together and you consider the lifespan and like how it's tied to other fuel sources because it's intermittent and like just it's so destructive.
And there's got to be some nefarious agenda there because why are you putting these things up that don't give us more energy?
You know, because it's like it causes so many harms that, you know, yeah.
So so let me tell you my theory on this one.
How far you seem pretty far down the rubber hole in terms of, I mean, you even mentioned Tom Hanks and Isaac Cappy and Red Shoes.
So I'm imagining you're not a newcomer to this.
No.
This stuff.
I'll give you my theory.
I think that the thing that you've mentioned is not often talked about or admitted by the wind turbine industry.
The noise that they create, the low frequency noise.
I think that the real purpose of these machines is A, to slice and dice birds and bats.
I think the Satanists who run the world actually get their kicks out of killing not just humans but animals too.
And so that's sort of the good.
But I also think the noise they make creates a kind of low frequency noise which I think the demons and the forces of darkness find congenial.
I think they're like a kind of form of alien harp.
And the noise so little disgust is actually their raison d'etre.
Yeah.
You can't escape them.
I travel all over the country.
I stay in hotels and things when we get a freebie.
And I'm always, I'm very attuned to the noise that wind turbines made.
And I have never been anywhere that you cannot hear the sound of wind turbines, no matter how remote.
Of course, all the remote places have been taken over by the wind industry anywhere, particularly in Scotland, which I call the Republic of Wind Farmia.
And Wales has been ruined as well.
Oh, gosh.
And they're pretty much doing it to most of England.
It's horrible.
you're never more than 20 miles away from a winter wind farm anywhere and 20 miles is is is the is the actually i think i think that the effective range is even bigger than that i think I think it could be 30 miles that you can hear.
Yeah, and you don't, and I want to specify this too: that a lot of the effects are inaudible.
So you don't really hear them, you feel them.
So they actually, and you can see it, you can do these tests.
You can put plexiglass in your window, in your window frame, and you'll see it vibrating.
You know, it's this little vibrating.
So there's this vibration happening.
And that's like vibrating everything.
And it goes through mountains.
I mean, it's incredibly powerful, and it makes people sick.
I mean, I've had people contact me, they, you know, they're electrosensitive.
Like, so I'm so-called electrosensitive.
Like, I feel, you know, the radiation harms from wireless stuff, especially.
So if I had to move, you know, I unfortunately knock on wood somewhere far from wind turbines for now, but they're trying to put them offshore all over in our oceans now, which is insane, insane.
But, you know, there were some delays.
I mean, there's always these like fight pushbacks and then there's a delay, but they're just gonna see it through.
You know, if they want it, they're gonna do it.
And they might like look like a democratic process, but it's like they want these things.
And again, no logical reason.
They're gonna say it's for the good of everything and everybody, but it's obviously not.
There's provably not.
It's provably harmful.
These are not windmills, like a little windmill on a little farm that people used to have in their farms.
People think, oh, it's like windmills.
It's not the same thing at all.
These turbines are something completely different.
Anyway, so yeah, they don't so many harms.
Like you said, it's like I've heard it called a bird quisinar.
Is that what's that called?
Quisinet, Quisinar?
I'm saying that wrong.
Yeah.
I call them fat jumping, bird slicing people crucifixes.
Yeah, there you go.
So, yeah, destroy.
I mean, and people don't, the public doesn't know this.
They don't even know that's happening, you know, or they'll say, well, but the birds will die if the climate change isn't mitigated.
So we have to do this.
So it's still going to save birds.
And it's like, yeah.
Right.
We've got to destroy the city to save it.
Right.
And that's the argument that comes up over and over again.
It's just incredible.
But yeah, for now, we're away from it.
But like you said, I'm just so sorry to hear that's happening over there because I haven't traveled that part of the world in like 20 years.
And I'm sure it's just, I'd be astounded by, I'd just be heartbroken to see that.
You know, I used to live over in Ireland.
I lived in Ireland.
I think once you did youreland completely ruined with wind turbines.
I mean, their attitude is, well, I mean, the system's always been open to corruption and backhanders and stuff.
The way that you can build a horrible little white box on the side of a beautiful mountain and not get it torn down under planning.
Yeah.
That's terrible.
But our island has been completely ruined.
And I feel very sorry for the Irish.
I mean, Ireland is not remotely Irish anymore.
That's what I've heard.
Yeah.
But so you've got.
Tell me about the story of your EMF allergy thing, whatever it is.
How did that happen?
Well, I think, and it's hard to say why some of us become like hyper-reactive, like allergic, but I do think it has something to do with a threshold level of exposure where it's just like, it's like anything with an allergy where you have too much of it, of a toxin, and then you become reactive.
But I was in journalism and I was a photojournalist and I actually had like a cell phone before everybody else I knew because of that.
And I was, and interestingly, I knew there was some harm involved because I always like studied about environmental stuff.
You know, I was always kind of like a granola girl, right?
And like, you know, health food nut and stuff.
So I always like, I'd read environmental, you know, magazines that were like warning that we don't know what satellites do to the environment.
We don't know what these cell towers do.
We know that the radiation harms up to this mount and whatever.
And so I was like, ooh, I should stay away from like cell towers.
And, you know, I knew a little bit.
Interestingly, that kind of like the environmental whole movement got hijacked too.
And like all that, you don't hear that anymore.
You know, like, so they're all embracing the technology again to try to save the planet.
And you find out who's the head of these companies.
And yeah, they've got the industry ties and everything.
So it's all corrupted.
But anyway, I was going about my business basically.
And I had, I had been like a holdout for a smartphone because it was just expensive and I didn't see the need yet.
But then I got one in 2012.
And then the same year, smart meters went on my apartment.
And I was living in Washington, D.C., which apparently I found out later is like one of the most EMF polluted cities anywhere.
You know, of course, it's like the belly of the beast, right?
So I was living like with when I looked at the antenna search, once I realized what was going on with me, I saw that there were like 600 antenna within like a mile radius or something crazy.
You know, it was just like, I was like, what?
But I had the smartphone first and I had the smart meters.
I didn't know.
It was like very clandestine.
They put it on, you know, did without telling me.
I guess I got a notice in the mail that was fine print, but I never saw that.
And so there were all these smart meters put on.
And the first thing I noticed, my plants stopped growing on my balcony right above them.
And I didn't even know they were there.
So I had this balcony garden and it was just not thriving anymore.
My cat used to like to sit on the balcony, didn't want to sit there anymore.
And I just didn't know.
Really?
That's why.
And it was only until I learned all this stuff later and I started having insomnia.
And I didn't know that my neighbor had put a Wi-Fi router under my bedroom, like under below me.
So there was this Wi-Fi router right under my bed.
I had my smartphone.
I had, you know, I didn't even have Wi-Fi in my apartment, but the neighbor's was right there, and I didn't know that.
And then I just had this trip where I traveled 30 hours in planes.
I went to Bali and back, and that was 2014.
And that was when I just crashed and like burned.
And I got when I kind of recovered from what felt like an adrenal collapse or something, I could not touch my cell phone without like severe pain.
Like I felt this pain shooting down my arm that felt electrical and I couldn't hold it to my head without a lot of pain.
And I started to be like, this is causing me pain.
Like what's happening here?
And I always felt a little bit of like a heating sensation when I put it to my head.
So I used to use the earbuds and I would like speakerphone and stuff like that, you know, because I didn't like it by my head.
I never liked that.
So I was probably a little bit sensitive before.
But then I just had this moment where it was so severe, suddenly, it felt.
And then I looked into it.
I was like, what's going on here?
I started to feel it everywhere.
And I started to notice I was feeling like I'd feel a cell tower before I saw it.
And it would create this pressure in my head that was very specific.
And it would be like hiding behind a tree.
And I would feel that before I saw it.
And then I would feel, it just got so bad.
I started having migraines.
I never had migraines before.
I mean, my life became like a living hell because this was everywhere and I was in so much pain.
And I started doing experiments going out in nature on the weekends because at the time I could still drive out of the city and find some places away from this stuff.
And the difference was so incredible that I couldn't really deny this anymore.
It's like, and my partner, he's still with me.
That's a rare thing, but I've had the same partner with me the whole time.
And he went through this experiment with me.
We were like, is this what's going on?
And, you know, he would, I started having him turn off his phone.
We came over.
I started turning mine off.
Then I just decided I had to get rid of it.
And then it was like, we need to move.
I can't get better here.
I was trying everything.
You know, this was a year later is when we moved, but we've moved several times since and further and further out.
And it's been hard.
I mean, I lost, you know, I had a business and he, you know, we had jobs and family and friends and had to just go.
And a lot of people thought I was crazy.
I mean, they already thought I was crazy anyway, because I was talking about chemtrails, you know, before this happened.
You are crazy.
I can't tell you.
Yeah.
Because I was noticing things.
Sorry.
What's that?
Do you live completely out in the boondocks now?
Oh, yeah.
This is like the most boondock you can get.
I mean, it is like six miles.
Just describe it to me.
Okay.
It's all forest service land around us, which, you know, isn't great because they start logging.
We had fires here a couple years ago, and then they logged a lot of it, which was really hard to deal with.
But we don't have, we have like one other neighbor a mile away.
And I'm not going to talk about that neighbor.
I can't even say why right now I'm not even.
But anyway, Prepper type, you know, but yeah.
Anyway, another neighbor don't want to talk about.
And then, like, it's six miles to get to the road to go to town, and then it's another 10 miles to that little town, and then it's another, you know, 10, 20 miles to the neck to the actual town, which is still a kind of small one.
So, no, like, no, we have our own power completely, so not tied to any grid.
I can't, but you know, off-grid power has its own problems, like inverters for solar have to create dirty electricity, create EMAPs that can be worse than being in town.
So, we're very aware of that.
We have very minimal, you know, we just use it very minimally.
And so, we don't even have like an invert.
We don't even have like wiring in the house.
We just have like little portable batteries that we charge with solar or charge with the car when it's in the winter.
And then, you know, power the laptop, power a couple lights, and that's all the electricity we use.
I mean, people have so many gadgets that they don't really need.
We don't need anything else.
I mean, I would like to not even have a laptop, but obviously, I'm a writer now and you know, doing this stuff.
But, yeah, we don't have to do that.
What about the freeze?
Nope, nope.
So, luckily, the climate here works so that we can use a lot of ice in the summer.
We have to buy ice in town for our coolers, but we have a cooler.
And then in the winter, the rest of the year, almost half the year at least, we can just, it's just cold enough outside to have them in the cooler outside, all our stuff.
So, we don't have that either.
And we have a wood stove, and we don't need AC in the summer because it's not hot enough.
And we just need the, you know, we cut wood and heat the house that way.
And we have a propane water heater.
For a bath, what do you do?
Propane water heater for that.
It's outside, though, so that's fun.
Fun in the depths of winter, I imagine.
Yeah, it's not at least, it's not really, we get some snow.
It's not that cold here in the winter either, which is nice.
You know, we hardly ever have like a frost even or freeze.
Freeze is very rare.
We get snow.
We get snowed in for a couple weeks usually.
We have to be prepared to be stuck here for weeks because they don't plow the road.
So we start hoarding stuff for winter, which is like, you know, what's so interesting about it is we have to think seasons ahead.
You know, we have to plan things, and people don't do that anymore.
They're so dependent on this immediate everything that they don't know how to plan for anything.
And it's like, and so they're just really helpless when there's a storm or the internet goes, they can't go to the store, store doesn't have any food.
You know, I mean, everybody should like have, I mean, this whole idea of a prepper, you know, like it's funny the terminology because it's like all of our ancestors were preppers.
Everybody just used to store food, you know, because that's what you do.
I mean, that's just like how things, you know, that's just smart.
Like the winter is coming, you store food.
Do you have a vegetable garden?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, majorly.
Yeah, orchard.
Are you self-sufficient almost?
No, I mean, more than most people, but I'm not a hunter like you, so that's what's lacking.
I can fish.
I'd like to get into fishing more, but yeah, we're not quite.
I mean, we rely on the nice thing is we have a lot of farmers and other off-grid people we know kind of, we're all kind of spread apart, but we get, we trade like food with each other.
You know, we have like a lot of bartering that happens, so we're a way better positioned than most people, you know.
I mean, because we get eggs and milk from, and meat even from neighbors, and otherwise grow almost all of our vegetables.
Yeah.
That's cool.
That's cool.
Well, now we know a bit more about you.
Okay.
People get really interested in that.
So yeah, we can talk.
We have a whole book.
Because I tell you what, Shannon.
I mean, in a way, you're wasted on me.
Or rather, you're wasted on me because I kind of agree with everything you're saying and everything.
But I wish that you could come over and have a conversation with my kids who, when they go to the gym, they've got these air ones.
Eyebrows.
Airbus.
AirPods.
AirPods.
And they're on their phones all the time.
And I say to them, look, do you not realize you're frying your brains?
And the line they come up with, which is probably the enemy's most effective defense, like if this stuff is really dangerous, we'd know about it.
We'd have been told about it.
Everyone thinks there are these regulations out there from harm from EMF.
And if EMF is harmful, we'd know about it.
Yeah.
Well, those studies were done a long, long time ago.
We've known about EMF.
I mean, somebody's known about EMF harm since they started messing with it.
I mean, this is like, you know, and that's why I tried, I write these books.
I've got like all the studies and everything.
I point people to, I said, this is known.
It's known.
What they know is it harms us.
What they don't know is if it's safe.
They know it's not safe.
It's definitely not beneficial.
So the regulations are, I mean, this is the thing.
You have to get people to understand corruption and how that, you know, that it is corrupt, that the system is completely broken.
None of these laws protect us.
I mean, the fact that there's even regulations at all already says they know it's harmful.
You see what I'm saying?
It's like the fact that there are these entities that are meant to protect us from the radiation exposures.
I was already saying it's harmful, but they're arguing about how harmful is it, right?
And the thing is that we know is there's no safe dose.
There's no, they can't provably say any of it's safe.
So they do the kind of whole, well, we don't know how bad it is.
I don't know.
There's so much like denial.
You know, they just do this like distraction thing.
One of the main key things about this is that the focus on just radiation harms rather than just like biological effects.
So the radiation in terms of heating.
So the only safety studies ever done have been about heating effects in the body.
So if it's not cooking you, they say it's safe.
In spite of all the other data that's saying there's biological harmful effects that happen that have nothing to do with heating at all.
And what it has to do with is electrical signaling in our body.
So we have weak electrical signaling that everything functions on.
We know that the heart and the brain, all this stuff works with some kind of electrical functioning.
You know, the earth has a magnetic field and we can measure it.
And we've introduced all this foreign stuff.
So it's foreign frequency, you know, that is just not biologically compatible.
So it's like it throws everything off.
It's like this other interference signal.
And like you said, I mean, I do think there's something nefarious.
Get interested in some of the esoteric agendas and things because it's like, why, you know, if they, if, if there's, if this is known to be this harmful and has like mind-disrupting effects, emotional effects on us, like that there's mind control applications, has been used, especially during the Cold War, all this like, you know, this Russians and the, you know, Americans like working on these like what do they call it, like psychotropic, you know,
kind of like mind control technologies, like how can we like silently affect the enemy?
I mean, they had the Moscow signal where in the Moscow embassy where they're like, you know, just experimenting on the American personnel working over there.
And, you know, when the Americans learned about it, Henry Kissinger in particular, right, he was involved in that.
He said, they didn't stop it.
They said, well, as long as you share the data with us, you can keep experimenting on our employees.
It's fine.
We just want to know the effects of this, right?
With the microwaves.
And this is still happening.
This happened again in embassies.
I don't know why the embassies, but embassies all over the world, again, were getting hit with these covert microwave frequencies in 2019.
They call it the Havana syndrome.
Havana, because Havana, Cuba, it's one of the places that since years before they found out, oh, they've been doing this again.
And it's like they're saying it's pulsed.
And the interesting thing is, I read this article where it said, don't worry, it's not like your cell phones or Wi-Fi because it's pulsed radiation instead.
And I'm like, yes, so is your Wi-Fi and cell phones.
There's no difference.
It's also pulsed.
But, you know, they'll split hairs over all these different things and semantics and kind of like just mess with us.
But anyway, again, so much evidence that it's harmful.
I mean, mountains and mountains and piles of evidence that it's harmful.
There's no evidence that it isn't harmful.
So, you know, it is harmful.
It's like, yeah.
It is harmful.
Yeah, yeah.
Which of all the kind of technology around us, you mentioned Wi-Fi and how that sort of requires a particular, occupies a particular frequency, which even when you turn it off for periods, your body is still in Wi-Fi mode and still suffering.
You're still traumatized by it.
Yeah, they call it the Wi-Fi memory effect.
It's like in your cells, they're still vibrating at that.
So it's a change that's like continual.
And I can testify as a so-called electrosensitive person that when I would hold a cell phone in my hand when I was still trying to use them for a few minutes, I felt that buzzing, uncomfortable feeling in my arm for like an hour after.
And I've had to, when I had to hold it to my face, it actually numbs my face on the one side.
And that effect, I feel it for a long time after.
So even now, I mean, even 10 years later, and a lot of detoxing and things, I'm a lot less, I'm kind of less reactive, but I still, you know, go into town, I have to recover from that.
I come back and recover.
I feel the effect, you know, after, and I have, it disrupts my sleep.
If I'm in town for a really long time one day and I come home, I have a harder time calming my body down to go to sleep.
You know, so there's things like circadian rhythm disruption and everything.
But the Wi-Fi is particularly interesting.
And this is something very nefarious: is that there's part of that signal that's happening, those frequencies, there's a couple different ones, and one of them is completely unnecessary to the transmissions and communication.
It's just there for no reason.
Why is it there?
And it's that they used to call it the woodpecker signal.
So there was this like from Chernobyl.
Chernobyl had like beamed, had this really huge, you know, radio tower.
It was like they were experimenting again with like these frequencies and mind control and stuff.
And they people were sick, like they could feel it in North America, like sick from this tower or this signal.
They called it the woodpecker because it was like something kind of like pecking at your, you know, people who were closer, I think, could feel this kind of like knocking or something or hear it even.
And then so they finally like got rid of that because, and I wonder about the whole Chernobyl meltdown stuff, because if that's where the babies and everybody who was harmed, it was really from that or from this woodpecker thing they had going on, you know.
But after that, instead of like, now it's just they have that same signal just at a lower power, same, you know, 10 hertz, I think it is or something, like in our Wi-Fi, you know, boxes all over the world.
So now everybody has it in their home and there's they're buying it, they're paying for it.
You know, I mean, the same woodpecker thing.
It's like going and like eating at your brain.
That's really interesting because that has analogues in a lot of other areas, doesn't it?
So, for example, you've got the vaccines, which contain all manner of unnecessary ingredients, which can only have been put there with malign intent.
I'm sure there's some other examples that I thought of.
I mean, there's oh, cigarettes, of course.
They say it's not the tobacco that harms you, it's all the other toxic ingredients, which I mean, dozens of them.
300 different chemicals, 300, including arsenic, lead, you know, all that.
I mean, like, and you're burning it, inhaling.
I was very reactive to cigarette smoke too, and people thought I was, people thought I was crazy then to say that I'm being harmed by it before everybody awakened to that.
You know, but it's always that kind of thing is always being replaced with something else.
It's like we never get free of these poisons.
There's always some really poisonous thing that we become addicted to that are dependent on that's a part of our daily lives.
You know, we can't be.
It's like, I just want to be global warming.
It's a massive con.
There was no evidence whatsoever that man-made climate change is a problem, that it's going to kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to deal with it.
It's a non-existent problem.
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition to my 2012 classic book, Watermelons, which captures the story of how some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.
It's a shocking story.
I wrote it, as I say, in 2011, actually, the first edition came out.
And it's a snapshot of a particular era.
The era when the people behind the Chinese climate change scam got caught red-handed tinkering with the data, torturing till it screamed in a scandal that I helped christen ClimateGate.
So I give you the background to the skull juggery that went on in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were informing us, we've got to act now.
I rumbled their scam.
I then asked the question: okay, if it is a scam, who's doing this and why?
It's a good story.
I've kept the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end, explaining how it's even worse than we thought.
I think it still stands out.
I think it's a good read.
Obviously, I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.
You can buy it from jamesdellingpole.co.uk forward slash shop.
You'll probably find that work.
Just go to my website and look for it, jamesdellingpole.co.uk.
And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring around all those people who are still persuaded that it's a disaster.
We must amend our ways and appease the gods, appease Mother God.
There we go.
It's a scam.
That's a part of our daily lives.
You know, we can't be.
It's like, I just want to be free of this.
I want to be able to not be poisoned in my food, water, air.
That window thing.
Yeah, the woodpecker, though.
Yeah.
That woodpecker thing is really, really sinister.
I'd forgotten that detail.
So what do you, I mean, I have your problem to a degree in that I went to Hong Kong a couple of years ago and I found the experience pretty much intolerable because they've obviously got loads of EMF poisoning there.
I imagine if I went to DC, I'd have the same problem.
It's very hard going to hotels now, I find, because they are sort of massive.
Because I suppose the idiot customers complain if the Wi-Fi is not good enough.
But actually, strong Wi-Fi is not going to give you that good night's sleep, is it?
No, I know.
I see this free Wi-Fi.
I mean, when I became affected and I started seeing the free Wi-Fi signs, I'm like, let's just say like free cancer, free insomnia, free diabetes, free insanity, free depression.
You know, it's like, great, it's free.
That's right.
Yeah, it's free.
I mean, that's all the best things are provided to us free by the governments.
Right.
Yeah.
That's true.
Like free vaccines.
They love giving you free vaccines.
Why would that be?
So Wi-Fi is obviously bad.
What's the worst thing?
Of all the EMF sources that are really messing with us, what would you say is the one that?
You know, the Starlink is pretty sinister and horrifying to me right now.
You know, that's just, like, going everywhere now.
It's just, like...
I'm just telling now.
Ah, sorry, well...
Well, yeah.
Shannon.
Yes.
I'm sorry to break you off.
No.
Yeah.
Are you going to go to dark?
Are you not hardwired to it, are you?
No.
Yeah, well, I would do that first thing and get rid of it, turn the Wi-Fi off, and that'll definitely minimize it.
But I've just found that worse than other Wi-Fi.
Like when I've, you know, I know what the regular Wi-Fi kind of feels like.
And then when people start getting Starlink and I felt their Wi-Fi, it was just like a different, completely, you know, I mean, because to me, I've never had the sensation of a fire in my ears is how I described it when I got near those routers.
It's like burning in my ears.
It was just so intense and worse than, you know, and that's like, and I do question like the satellite model, like how far up, what they are, you know, I mean, because I question everything at this point in my life, and I question NASA and I question space and I question, you know, the Earth and all this.
So I don't know what satellites really are.
Space is fake and gay.
Satellites aren't real.
They're weather balloons.
Yeah.
Okay, weather balloons.
Thank you.
And that makes a lot more sense to have these invisible balloons flying around, right?
And have that work as the communication.
And so there's just more of those everywhere.
And again, it's going to be any of these things.
I can't say what the worst is because the worst is how close you are to it.
So if you're right next to a cell tower, that's going to be a lot worse even than probably than your Wi-Fi or, you know, it's just the distance to it and how power.
But I mean, but then HARP is pretty crazy.
Well, it depends on you're a mile away from a tower.
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, that's better than outside your window.
I mean, we just want to get as far as we can, you know, and you're going to feel that.
I mean, well, you might not feel it.
I feel it.
I didn't always feel it.
But people do feel it.
This is the interesting thing.
They feel it, but not in the way that I'm talking about.
I feel it.
And maybe they would if they started paying attention.
But like, they're feeling it because they're having all these other ill effects, right?
They're having memory effects, headaches, brain fog, anxiety.
Anxiety, I think, is a big one.
They're having skin rashes and weird night sweats and like things that aren't really explained very well to them.
And the problem that we're having now is as it's everywhere, we can't get away from it to compare, right?
So you don't have a control group and you can't get like even going into nature, there's these like fake tree ones around.
And you don't even know.
It's like there too for a lot of people.
But so I'm still, it's a challenge, but you need to see, experiment and see how you feel with at least turning your Wi-Fi off or getting some distance and seeing how you feel.
Because we can still make it better.
Yeah, at night's good.
I do think the best thing is to hardwire and disable that because the thing is we make melatonin all day long.
It's not just at night, right?
So you're like, I mean, yeah, there's more at night.
It's better at night to have that off, but it's also best to have it off all the time.
And you're still you're still sleep a lot better then because these light signaling things are happening, you know, just all day.
All you know, so it's not like so it is in a sense of like light and blue light.
And we hear about this a lot and people have to kind of understand this concept better than other things I talk about.
So like if you're, you know, we know, kind of realize that like if we were just getting exposed to the sun the way that it's naturally happening and light the way that it's naturally happening, then we definitely sleep better.
And a lot of people actually, one of the reasons they sleep, lots of reasons they might sleep better camping or something is that they're getting more natural light signaling.
So this blue light stuff is like a noonday sun exposure and you're doing that.
If you're doing that all day, especially at night, it's worse at night, of course, right?
But even during the daytime, because it isn't the sun.
I mean, we try to compare these things, but they're just not the same thing, right?
This is all non-native to the planet, light frequencies, things that are not native.
They're alien.
They're not biologically compatible.
So just reducing any of these exposures.
I mean, I'm wearing blue blocking glasses right now.
I have a filter on the screen and on my glasses and on my light.
And it helps a lot.
It helps with eye strain.
It helps with, I start getting like eye pain if I don't do that.
But we have to just start paying more attention to our bodies and how we're responding to things around us.
I think one of the problems is that a lot of this can be numbing, right?
It sort of desensitizes us and so we and the EMFs can themselves can be addictive, because they're also like stimulating us.
So there's stimulus addiction involved with EMF exposures.
And there's other things like there's chemicals coming off of our screens, there's fluoride emissions from fluoride gases from the lithium ion batteries and everything that we use that when it's heating, and you know that fluoride is.
You know what I mean?
It's not.
It sort of like dumbs us down right and keeps us complacent and apathetic.
So that's one reason we kind of think we want to be around the screens, because they kind of have that like zombifying effect on us, you know, so we can just go and check out.
But there's a great your intro is great where you describe how you're surfing on a beach and you look at these boys on the beach who are not looking at the beach or looking at the sea like we used to.
They're looking at their, their their phones, and I mean you describe a scene that I mean could be extrapolated to almost any scenario on the tube now, on the London underground it's.
It's rare to the point of being remarkable to see anybody else reading a book rather than looking at their, their phone.
And you you you?
You say in in the book how this is.
This is kind of legalized heroin that the industry encourages addictions.
Can you?
Can you tell me a bit more about that?
Yeah, so the brain effects um, are they're seen.
I mean there's a lot of studies with brain scans with like and heavy gamers or internet users and they're seeing the same chemical changes in the brain as hard drugs like narcotics.
It's been compared with cocaine, morphine and heroin in terms of the actual chemical, physical effects.
So chemically it's the same effects and like we've never.
What's so crazy to me is that little children babies, are given.
I mean as bad as all that previous kind of polluting and addicting industries you know, have been like products like cigarettes.
Babies weren't given a cigarette, I mean people smoked around them, but right, and that maybe helped encourage addiction later.
But like actually saying here kids, I mean, what I can't believe is that it's a felon in California.
It's a.
It's considered a felony in California to smoke with a minor in the car, but you can give the minor a tablet or an IPhone and and it's also car it's equally carcinogenic, even according to, like the World Health Organization classifications.
So why is something that we as a known carcinogen, you know, being handed to kids and like given to them as educational tools, and I mean.
So yeah, I got into the addiction topic, which is a you know big theme in the book, of course, because I saw that people didn't want, Want to hear that their precious devices were harming them with EMFs.
I thought everybody would want to know what I learned when I learned it.
I was like, hey guys, like this stuff is like, oh my gosh, I didn't know this was doing this to me.
I didn't know that's why I couldn't sleep.
And that's why all the, and isn't it great to find out?
Because now we have a solution and we could just stop using it.
We don't have to have Wi-Fi at my co-op where I shop.
And like, we don't, who needs a Wi-Fi there?
You know, why don't we not have it on?
And oh no, people were like, oh, I can't do that.
I, you know, like, that's crazy.
They just didn't want to hear it.
And then I realized, okay, because they're so addicted because nobody wants their drugs taken away from them when they're addicted to them.
I mean, you will come up with every reason not to.
And the thing is, not realizing you're addicted.
I was addicted.
I'm still addicted to, like, I know that at least I can see it now better.
And a lot of that was from researching for this book.
Because even though I hardwire my internet connection and everything, I can understand now how it's changing my brain and how I perceive things and how I feel when I'm just researching online.
Because the whole interface of the internet is designed to trap you.
It's a casino slot machine design, actually.
So like there's something called intermittent variable rewards, IVR.
So the rewards are like, because we're social creatures and we seek social approval, you know, all of us do this.
You know, the biggest lull for like the biggest like hook for us is really getting that feedback, you know, that validation in some form or other.
So getting a like, getting a comment, getting an email, all these things are considered rewards, but they're not delivered in real time.
They're delivered at a time that is likely to maximize what they call user engagement.
So all the product designs with apps and everything is about user engagement and just that terminology, user.
So we're the users of this drug, you know, and they want to engage us as long as possible by whatever means possible because that's how they make more profits.
It's not just how they, I mean, yes, on one hand, it's like you can just say it's just about profits, they're greedy, that's why they're evil, but there's probably other reasons, right?
So it is because it changes our brains.
Like we're basically being rewired in our brains to be more like computers.
And there's the whole transhuman agenda, you know, which is openly stated by futurists who are, you know, like opponents of this.
They say that, you know, it'll be better if we merge with machine.
It's actually something inevitable.
It's the next stage in our evolution.
It's just going to happen.
So you might as well get on board with it.
And there's articles like, you will have nanobots streaming in your blood.
Everybody will by 2030.
They have got the date for you.
You know, it's just going to happen.
And that's like something we have to accept.
And it's going to be better for us because it'll extend our lives and make us smarter.
And we can get brain chips and hook it up to AI and we could be part of the machine.
So we're already being trained to be part of the machine.
We're being trained to think like it.
So we know we don't know things anymore, like knowledge and wisdom.
We know where to find the information.
We know how to skim around and skip around and click on everything and send links to everybody, in this hyper, very hyper-active way.
Which, I mean, I can see it myself because now that I have a lot more boundaries on my internet use out of necessity, because I'm not even in my house right now, I don't have a connection at the house.
It's impossible to get one there, which is great.
I'm up the hill always, you know, so I'm like getting a connection up the hill.
But I'm, and I'm like in the cold here, kind of, you know, I don't even have heat in here.
So I'm like having to go and use it in a place.
But even then, it's like amazing how I will want, I'll crave that hyper, that like hit, the dopamine hits I get from just doing research, just using the internet.
And I realize that while part of me is like, no, I don't want that because I know I'll feel bad later, just like any drug.
Like, if I eat all this sugar and crap that makes me feel great at the time, I know I'm going to feel worse later, right?
So I'm thinking, like, if I limit that, I'll feel better.
But sometimes it's like there's part of me that's like, no, I want more.
I haven't had all the sugar I want yet.
So I want to stay on longer, even if I don't have to.
So it's like, on the one hand, I'm complaining that I'm having to go online and I know what it does to me and it's going to do that.
But then, I mean, so I don't know.
I'm kind of going on tangents here.
This is a good example of like my crazy brain that's been changed by the internet.
Jumping all over the place.
They call it popcorn brain, multitasker brain, you know, and I have that.
Definitely.
Yeah.
We can all see that attention spans have been messed with because people are.
And I think you mentioned in the book, I can't remember what the term is, this phenomenon whereby young people like to perform several tasks at once with having their screen.
Oh, tabaholism.
Yeah, I've made that.
I think I've made that up.
That's being a tabaholic because that's what I am.
Having multiple tabs up.
Yeah.
Oh, something else, though.
I was thinking of different devices as well, though.
Oh, yeah, oh, oh, the iPad kids who are, yeah, there's the iPad kids, they call them, that are like, maybe, I don't know, maybe they're thinking of something else.
But, yeah, the point is that we're, so when you're distracted all the time like this and you have poor attention span, you then get, again, what are we trading?
That means the trade-off is you don't have room for deep contemplation, which means you don't have room to develop empathy even and like real interactions, intimacy with other humans.
And we start to cut ourselves out off more and more from each other.
We start to care less about each other.
We start to care less about our natural world.
We just care about, you know, that instant gratification of that next hit.
So, oh, that's right.
We started off by talking about the drug effects and how it's like a drug.
So it is a legalized drug.
I mean, the worst thing about what we're dealing with is that this complete ignorance about it being like a drug, the drug effects, and how powerful they are and how dangerous it really is for us, right?
In terms of how it changes our brains and our bodies and what that addiction does to us physically, but also like on these other levels.
And one thing I learned that I thought was so fascinating and really telling is that especially virtual reality is on this level that's like really hardcore drug, right?
So effective is it that it's used for burn victims so that they won't get addicted to the pain meds because opioid addiction is like that's understood now is a real problem.
And so if you put them on those drugs and for prolonged periods, they're going to be addicted.
It's going to be really bad for them.
So here's some VR glasses.
You can play a VR game.
And it'll work the same as morphine.
It'll work the same for pain as morphine and burn victims.
They don't take any drugs.
They're giving them the VR games.
So to me, when I see these VR, we have a VR gaming center that opened in our small town.
And to me, I'm like, there is the opium den, you know, for kids.
Like, it's right there.
I mean, that's, I mean, the escapism aspect, I mean, total escapism, where that's what drugs do like that, right?
So you're completely disconnecting from your present surroundings or reality, which is exactly what that is.
You're immersing yourself completely in another, in this fantasy world.
And we need escape sometimes.
I mean, it's not saying like, I mean, I like to read novels and like, you know, you get into stories and it's nice to have a little escape.
But you have to be grounded in reality or it's really dangerous.
It's dangerous on a psychological level.
I mean, you can actually experience psychosis from this kind of gaming.
Even gaming without VR can cause psychosis, what they call game transference phenomenon is like where you don't know what, like the things from the game start to enter your reality around you.
These kids can't separate the two and they get confused.
And what's amazing to me is we have right now happening and it's kind of like being pushed on us is what's called AR and MR and VR.
So AR is augmented reality and then we have MR, mixed reality, and then VR, virtual reality, like the end goal, get you stuck in that, right?
But to say that you want to mix the reality, like you want to confuse people.
The intention is to confuse and trick our brains into what's real and isn't.
I mean, is this not a dangerous thing to do to people in our societies to confuse us about reality?
It seems very dangerous.
I mean, it seems insane.
It's like, well, no.
Yeah.
So, I mean, couple of thousand people actually on drugs that already do that to them.
You know, it's just getting so, it makes things a lot less safe.
I mean, what's interesting is all this surveillance and everything, all the tech is supposed to make us safe with surveillance.
And we're in so much more danger now that our society is breaking down.
People are going insane.
They're violent.
They have pulse control issues.
They don't care about each other anymore.
It's statistically, we're not safer.
And it doesn't matter how many cameras there are everywhere.
We're not going to be safer if people don't know how to treat each other.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Listen, you're talking to somebody who lives in the country where we were way ahead of the game on surveillance cameras.
We're just used to being.
It's impossible to walk anywhere without having your movements caught.
Yeah.
Why are our mobile phones so addictive?
Okay, so, right.
Well, you've got the, so dopamine, it's really about dopamine and the effects in the brain.
So dopamine in and of itself isn't a problem and we need dopamine.
But dopamine that happens without effort is a problem.
So like normally you have dopamine after you've efforted.
Like you've farmed and then you harvested and that's the dopamine.
Like you, you know, you cooked a meal and then you ate it.
And so you cooked and you put everything together and whatever it is, like you do something first and then there's other chemicals released at the same time.
There's physical things you're doing that have other, you know, so it's a balanced thing.
But we've never before ever, even with all these other drugs, been able to like push a button and keep getting dopamine.
It's like, you just keep getting it.
And so everything about the interface of the phones is designed to do that.
It's again, casino slot machine design.
I mean, it's very sophisticated and there's a lot of research thought has gone into this design.
So it's like, it's the colors, it's the sounds, you know, it's the light.
It's like, like I said, the IVR intermittent variable reward, not knowing when you're going to get your like or your feedback, you know, your ping.
And we're trained like with the, there's a Pavlov.
Okay, so this goes way back to like cybernetics and cyberneticians and Pavlov.
And so cybernetics, so cyber, the word cyber, comes from the Greek to steer.
So cyberneticians were like the ones they said, we're going to steer humanity.
We're going to guide and steer humanity.
And so everything to do with cyber is about control.
And because it was for our own good, they want to end violence in society.
They have brain doctors, the CIA, different branches of government working together to help us by finding, their first thing was like, let's find the part of the brain that's causing violence and we'll just fix that.
So electrodes in the brain using radio frequencies, remote control, like Jose Delgado with his, you know, remote control experiments on animals and people was one of these cyberneticians.
And so, you know, coming today, we're in cyberspace.
And so what they learned back then, and this is like in the 50s primarily, a lot of this was happening, but I mean, it's decades, but that was like the heyday of this.
Is that we are connected to our environment and we are dependent upon environmental stimuli.
So we can't, you know, so to control man and steer man, you want to control his environment.
So the best, that's the best way.
So they talked about making a new matrix, and that's when the internet was really birthed out of the idea.
So the internet started as already with this idea of controlling and steering us and creating a new environment, a new matrix.
And so you can see why we're getting into this, like wanting to overlay the natural matrix with the augmented reality and the internet and having the internet everywhere and having it with wireless Wi-Fi signals.
And then the portable aspect, right?
So you have this screen now you can take around with you everywhere and it's disconnecting you from your surroundings and you're this is becoming your environment.
It's becoming your control system.
But it is addictive because that was the intention is to get us like hooked on this so that we can get stuck in this, that we can be easily controlled.
But I mean we know that like, you know, TV can be addictive.
I mean before these portable screens, just you know, people talked about when TV was invented, people complained.
There were people who were saying this is bad for us.
You know, this television thing, I can see what it's doing to my kids.
I can see what it's doing to my family.
Like we used to sit around and talk and now we're just looking at the screen.
You know, I mean, I'm sure that happened with radio too.
So it's just been these like steps along the way of like, you know, and it dumbs us down.
I mean, we've been, you know, we've lost our language, richness of our language, our heritage of like, we don't have the memory capacity anymore.
People used to tell stories and remember them.
They recite poetry, music, you know, play music, and that just doesn't happen now.
So we're, so we've got this portable screen.
I mean, the fact that we can watch a movie and download it instantly, like anywhere, is already a problem.
But there's so many other things that we can do with these screens that can be, so there's all these things that we know we can be addictive.
Let's talk about this way.
We already know there's like problems.
Certain people have problems with different kinds of addictions.
So there's like, there can be media addiction, so like TV addiction, addiction to movies, addiction to shopping, addiction to gambling, to porn.
And now we know social media.
This is all there.
It's all in one place.
So whoever you are, there's something for you personally.
And the reason there's one of the reasons for all the data harvesting all the time and like remembering where we went online, because it's like, wow, that's a lot of data, a lot of energy going into just like tracking what you look at and what your interests are.
It's like, to me, that's a personalized digital soma, you know, soma from Brave New World being that drug that, you know, everybody had to take.
So, and it means that comes from to sleep, right?
So it's like, it's just everybody has something that they're vulnerable to some kind of addiction.
Like none of us are free from that.
So it personalizes it for you.
It tailors it to you.
So it's your own personal soma.
And that's why people are like so hesitant, resistant to getting rid of that.
They're like, I can't, you can't take this from me.
And they'll make the excuse that everything that they need in their life is there, like all their contacts, all their, it's for work, it's for connecting, it's for looking, you know, connecting with my grandkids.
It's like, it's for these really important things.
But it's really more than that.
And we really don't need it for those things or saying we need it for.
I don't use it.
I don't have one, haven't for 10 years.
So clearly, and I'm still functioning in society.
Well, for now, I mean, I'm still being allowed to, luckily where I live, and I don't go out to eat much anyway, but so far, I don't have to scan QR codes or, you know, or use the phone to pay with something or to access a building or something.
I haven't had to do that yet, but it's coming.
And, you know, I wanted to say about the QR codes, because talk about something sinister.
And you mentioned you didn't like not being able to look at a menu and missing that.
And that's one aspect.
But ever since those came out, I don't know.
I look at that and it's so disturbing to me.
The image of a QR code is really disturbing to me.
Like physically looking at it, it makes me want to be sick.
And I can't really explain that, except there's something very disharmonious about it.
Yes, I think you're right.
Is it a mark of the beast thing or something else?
I mean, people said this about barcodes, and I can see that about barcodes too.
They're somehow, it's very unnatural and not organic, and it's very uncomfortable, you know, because a lot of like the barcode, I can see that because it's straight lines, it's very uncomfortable.
I remember reading about how, because you know how barcodes work, is that like you use light to scan, right?
And they're, and they do something like you scan it with some kind of light.
And so I've actually heard that they can be doing weird things to your surroundings just when the light's always hitting them all the time around, you know.
I don't know how true that is, but I did go through a period where I was like, I want to cover the barcodes.
I don't like that.
I started noticing them and I'm like, I don't like these barcodes.
And I met what was really interesting is I found this documentary about this family had escaped to Siberia during the 40s and when they were like killing religious, they were religious, you know, Catholic or something.
And they, did you hear about that?
And this woman, they found the fan, they lived for like 40 years totally untouched by, they didn't even know about the war that happened.
You know, nobody contacted them until like the 70s.
But this woman, I think she's still alive who survived from her family living out there.
When she first was encountering like people coming into her space and stuff from the outside world, she saw barcodes and she was like, the mark of the beast, the mark of the beast.
That's the mark of the beast.
Get that out of here.
And she won't allow anything with barcodes in her home.
And I thought that was so interesting, you know, that her reaction, somebody who's been living out there like that for so long.
But I have that kind of visceral reaction to QR codes.
I don't know what it is, but I have that.
It's like, wah.
As you say, you've got to trust your body more.
I think one does get these visceral responses and one shouldn't discount them.
Yeah.
Because I noticed even on a much lower level to you, but I noticed that whenever I've got my Wi-Fi turned on on my phone and when it's not on airplane mode, I can feel sort of a sort of pulses going up and down my arm.
So I always use it in airplane mode now, which is, I suppose, better than not using it.
Oh, yeah.
And to your point about how they always find a way, they'll find the vice that satisfies you.
So in my case, I'm like you.
I'm into nature and stuff, and I hate all this technological stuff.
But there's an app called Merlin, which enables you to recognize bird songs and to identify all the bird species around about you.
And you're thinking, well, this is too good not to have, not to use.
And that's how they get you.
Yeah, it's yeah, that's a better advice.
But, well, here's the thing about that.
And I actually, and the same with the plant identification apps and things, but I don't have the phone.
I don't have the app, so I can't do that.
But I do think, like, there are some plants.
I'm like, I still don't know what they are around me where I live.
And I think that would be nice.
But you have to be, I think you have to be connected to the internet, which means you have to bring that into these natural spaces, right?
Which is harmful to the birds you're trying to identify and the plants you're trying to identify.
So couldn't we still use that kind of thing and take the picture and find out later?
I mean, I could take a picture and then get online and probably do something and find out what this is, right?
But it's like more, this is the thing though.
We're so, it's that instant gratification about everything.
Now we expect to know things right away.
Like we can't give ourselves a moment to think about things.
And that's a problem too, because we don't, we, you know, we don't need to learning is having that answer immediately, which may or may not be correct, first of all.
But it takes that, you know, time from you to think about something.
And that's a problem because, you know, we use that space when we wonder about things.
That's the creative thinking.
And that's also critical thinking skills.
And so when you remove that, then you just don't even have that.
You know, so kids don't get to wonder about something.
And I hear, you know, it's like you'll see that happening.
And I hate that.
I'll be talking to somebody.
We'll have a discussion.
I'll be like, I wonder.
And they'll be like, well, let's see.
And they take out, I have a friend who's also researchers in tech addiction.
She says she calls it the godstick.
They go, let me check my godstick anyway, but like, let's ask the godstick, right?
So it's like, let's ask AI or whatever right now.
Let's find out.
And it's like, no, let's not.
Let's talk about it.
Don't, first of all, and like, they don't know often that I have this sensitivity.
So to me, it's like they just took out their packet of cigarettes and lit them.
And now I got to smoke with them because, you know, I don't realize they're doing that.
Like, first, get that thing away from me.
I don't, you know, because I'll feel it as soon as you start searching stuff on it.
It's definitely stronger.
So where I am with this now is like, if people have it in their pockets, it's not as big of a deal as when they start using them.
When they start using them, the signal.
And if you take an EMF meter, you'll see this happening.
It's like it starts to just really go off the charts with the signals and everything.
So I'm like, please don't do that for my sake.
And I'll be like, it'll be at the store or something.
And the stores, the people at the stores don't know what's in their store.
They have to look on their phone and their apps, you know, especially the bigger stores.
And I'm like, please don't do that.
Like, I'll look, I'll find it myself.
If you can't just tell me, then I'm going to look for it.
But like, don't bring that thing out.
You know, I mean, please.
God.
Yeah.
I've been that terrible person.
I think we've all been that terrible person.
Well, let's just check.
Let's just check.
And it's an excuse.
It's an excuse to look at the, what was it?
You said the godstick.
You want to scratch that itch, and you've been looking for an excuse, and then you found it.
Oh, I'm finding out some useful information.
When people ask me about my trip to Russia, almost inevitably, I'll be saying, Yeah, here's a really interesting video I took.
And you're thinking, actually, they don't necessarily want to see your video, however interesting.
Actually, this is about you.
It's not really about them.
Yeah.
I used to travel quite a lot before that was cut off to me because of Wi-Fi and the planes and then the world being taken over by cell towers and everything.
But it's funny, I found that people didn't want to hear about my, they didn't want to see my slideshow or hear about my trip or look at pictures.
They didn't really weren't interested.
And I was like, well, I had to live with the fact that nobody cares about my trips usually.
But it was funny because now everybody, I think at the time, I may have been like, yeah, I could share, if they had social media, I'd be all excited about sharing the pictures there.
And I used to be, social media was a problem for me.
Social media was like one of my, you know, became a vice in a way, or like a problem.
And that it's interesting because again, see, hardwiring your internet doesn't mean you're not exposed to other harms and these like psychological harms.
And it took me some years to realize that Facebook was harming me and it wasn't worth it to me anymore to be on there because it was causing like really high levels of anxiety because these social comparison things.
And at least I was able to kind of pull back and realize it was happening, but didn't really change the effect of it.
So I, at one time, was a performing artist and I had a Facebook page for that.
And I would compare with the other performing artists and see how many followers and likes they had.
And I would start to feel bad in comparison to them because that made me feel not as good and unworthy somehow.
And it was that popularity contest.
I felt like reduced, everything felt like going back to high school or middle school where there were the cool kids and they had the more likes and followers and you feel like you're always comparing and they don't want to and you're seeing like everybody looks happier than you if you're not happy as that day and you're having a hard time.
They're all like shiny happy people, you know, and they're like having a great time, but that's not the reality of their lives.
But that's what we're showing.
It's very carefully curated.
What was your performing artist thing?
I was a hula hoop dancer.
I know, don't laugh.
I was going to, yes, you bounced the ball on your nose.
And it's quite similar, isn't it?
Being a hula hoop dancer.
Yeah, it was like juggling.
I was pretty good.
I had, I mean, I was paid for this.
I performed, you know, with, even like traveled a little bit with a band as one of their backup dancers.
And I did all kinds of, I taught classes.
I did performances.
I was paid for.
Yeah.
So I had a lot of.
What's the measure of how good you are at who they are?
What's the number of hoops simultaneously?
No, no, not necessarily, no, not like that so much as like, I mean, I could do, I could do like three, you know, I could do like two on body.
And I don't know.
It wasn't really that as much that circusy as like more of a dance art to me.
So it was really more like how I could dance with them.
And there's certain kind of tricks and things.
I mean, there were different ways we respected each other in that community of like, you know, some things are really hard to achieve.
Like people would come up with these moves that are just very difficult.
And it is a lot like there is a kind of juggling aspect to it.
You know, that's, you have to learn.
Tell me the clever move.
What was your special move?
Oh, I see apart.
I don't have, well, there's one.
I don't know if I can even describe that one where I kind of like rolled it out and then like, grabbed it with my leg and hooked it on the leg and then like, and then threw it up my body and it's just.
I can't even I'd have to show you it's a really kind of complicated thing.
But I have a new one.
I mean I still do it sometimes.
I have this one where I've got a hoop going here over my head and then the other one is coming again.
It's this like kind of thing that that's kind of like hits off your body to come up, you like.
So you kind of like move up your body from the ground and this.
So I can do it where like, one is coming up and then I transfer my hand to the other and the other one goes down and it looks that there's a kind of optical illusion going on there.
There's things like isolations, where you look like the hoop isn't moving like you're doing.
It's fun.
I mean, I really enjoyed it.
I kind of got out of it because I moved out, you know, away from cities where I don't have the performance opportunities.
So I'm not really doing that, you know.
But you know, getting older, I don't know, I write now, I guess, getting like sedentary I try not to be so sedentary, but now I surf, so that's a different kind of juggling performance act.
What else do you need to do really writing?
Yeah, I know, I mean you miss the traveling I do.
Sometimes I really miss yes, I do.
I mean I miss going to tropical places with warm water, mostly more than anything.
I hope to someday be able to do that again.
But yeah, it's interesting when the COVID thing happened that I already was living this kind of existence that I, you know, I didn't wish on anybody else, though I really didn't like to have to see other people being so isolated, because you know it was hard for me to go in public and to be gathered, you know places with crowds and things.
It still is.
So I didn't really want to wish that on anybody else and it was weird to see like the whole world sort of going through that.
But my life didn't change at all during that because well, for one thing I didn't.
I traveled as much as I normally did, when I wanted to, where I wanted to and where I lived kind of out there.
Nobody really cared as much and I didn't put the mask on and I didn't distance from people unless they.
I mean I'm actually.
I was cool with that, because then they're keeping their cell phone away from me, so it's kind of like good, stand farther back, please.
Yeah yeah, I hadn't thought about that one.
Do you do you think John, before we, before we go yeah, if we talk about the, the John Podesta and Tom Hanks and yes, do you think we'll get pushed off a off a freeway, onto route 66?
Oh gosh, I hope not.
Ye yeah, because I saw the title of your book and I, I read the, the intro chapter, and you and you, you talk about the, the fairy tale um, about these these, these red shoes That make the girl, little girl, dance and dance and dance and dance until her only option is to get her legs chopped off.
Yeah.
The shoes are doing her no end of harm.
But also, you then couldn't resist the digression of going into pedo red shoes and pizza parties.
So tell us a bit about that.
Yeah, it's so funny because I should have been somebody who would have known about that but had not known about the red shoe connection with that.
I mean, I had heard, I had researched into that kind of thing a long time ago, you know, knew about the kind of pedophile, you know, rings and especially in the rings of power within the rings of power, they have their pedophile rings.
It seems to be like a common thing.
But I didn't know that red shoes in particular had anything that they had to shoes that you would want.
Well, there's a couple things I found.
One, they're associated with Satanists wearing them for supposedly to hide the blood and their sacrifices that splatter on their shoes or potentially to be made out of victims' skin, you know.
But there's actually something really called the Red Shoe Club in Hollywood that is not a conspiracy.
This is a real club that elite Hollywood member figures are members of.
And it's secret.
It's all secret private meetings.
Don't worry.
They just want to have some privacy away from the press.
They're not doing anything weird or anything, but don't worry about it.
But then, you know, so I found it.
It's normal stuff that they don't want to know about.
Hanging out.
They're just, you know, sick of the paparazzi.
But it just happens to be called, it's the Red Shoe Club.
Oh, because, you know, shoes are symbolic, blah, blah, blah.
You know, there's all these excuses like the press has for like, and I list those, you know, red, oh, because of power.
Yeah, okay.
But then I couldn't believe how many places I found red shoes because then I'm like, well, Tom Hanks has come up so much with so many, you know, it's so strange with like all his connections with all these different, you know, esoteric things going on.
So he was in a movie called The Man with the One Red Shoe.
You know, and it's like, so he's got, and he's the guy on Instagram posting like a shoe and a glove, you know, from like, just to just, and they're weird.
There are these weird pictures.
And it's like, why is he doing that?
Oh, I just think it's interesting.
So I wonder what happened to the other one.
Or maybe what happened to that kid who went missing.
And I actually found like, he had like a kind of pink shoe picture in one of his Instagram posts that matched like exactly the shoe of a girl who, like 16-year-old girl who'd been killed, abducted, and killed, and it was Hersch.
I was like, but not sure if there is anything there, but interesting nonetheless.
And then the numerology involved in it.
And then there's like the Red Shoe Club for Ronald McDonald House, Red Shoe Society or something.
Then there's Tony Podesta.
So like big tech mogul guy, right?
And lobbyist in DC who happens to love shoes, especially red shoes.
And he had like his birthday party, I forget which birthday party, 60-something, had all his friends come.
They had to wear red shoes, you know.
And then he has this like shoes for souls or souls.
See, that's the one I thought was funny.
So he had this like also a charity shoes for souls, which you can reverse as souls for shoes.
Because there's this whole backwards.
No, I think it wasn't called that because I've read it more recently than you.
It was called Souls for Souls.
But one was L. Sorry, sorry.
I'm saying that wrong.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
You're right.
That's way more crazy.
And that's exactly what I meant to say.
Souls for Souls.
Souls for Souls.
Yeah, which is interesting.
Yeah, so supposedly to help clothe homeless people or something.
But it could just be that it has another meeting entirely.
So, right.
And just the whole, well, and the missing kid thing, you know, to me, well, probably this is like the darkest thing in our societies happening is like kids going missing and being harmed.
And that's, I think, should be the punishable, a crime punishable with capital punishment.
I think it's just the most heinous, worst thing that can possibly happen.
And if you call yourself a civilized society at all, this should not be happening to children.
If our technology is so great and we're so advanced, why are our children going missing and being harmed?
And that's something.
Probably because the senior judges are part of the problem.
Well, right.
And, you know, because it is the higher.
I mean, this is.
You ask why people are being, but I'm just saying, but this is what people should be asking and looking into.
And it's like, you know, the fact that this just keeps going on and is getting worse and our technologies are facilitating this.
You know, it's facilitating this.
And that's what I wanted to point out: is that the dark web, not even the dark web, just the regular web.
I mean, all these social media platforms are used to groom, target kids, abundance them.
Kids are a lot more in danger being online than outside and playgrounds these days.
Predators like to use the internet because it's safer for them.
They don't want to go have to pick up a kid at a playground.
They want to contact them online where they could be anonymous and pretend to be somebody else and befriend them and then earn their trust and then go pick them up.
And this is what happens.
And the fact that just kids themselves are being groomed to be victims, but also to be perpetrators because they're being exposed to really graphic, violent sexual content at really early ages and involving younger and younger kids.
So there are kids that are having problems with abusing kids now.
Teens that are abusing younger kids.
And so many things are being normalized.
People are being numbed to this kind of content.
So sexualizing kids and numbing them and then destroying their empathy, ability to have empathy is obviously leading to all these harms.
And that's why I tie this in because it is so important to see what's really at stake here.
Unfortunately, I mean, I can't imagine, I personally didn't end up having kids, but I have a lot of nieces and nephews.
And if anything happened to any one of them, I'd lose it.
I mean, I can't imagine having my own kids have something happen to them like that.
It's just the most horrifying thing possible.
And this is like, these are our leaders.
These are people in power are doing this.
I mean, it's other people too.
But it's just like, you know, it's becoming a very sick society.
And because of this disconnection, it's just amplifying and worsening this.
Are your brothers and sisters where you are?
No, they're spread out.
I don't have any close family where I live.
I mean, they're not close to me.
No, I mean, where you are ideologically.
Oh, oh, sorry.
It's mixed.
It's mixed.
I have some.
Interestingly, I think before the pandemic era, my family probably thought I was a little bit more crazy than they thought after for some of them.
For others of them, I think it just cemented the idea that I'm a bit crazy, even crazier now.
I become more, you know, I'm a radical or something, radical dissenter.
So, yeah.
So it's just a more, you know, kind of more extremes.
We've seen this in general, like extreme, you know, kind of polarizations.
But yeah, in some cases, I did for some of my family members start to make them question more for sure than they had been, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, I think it's, but why would you be a dissenter against this beneficent government which wants to give you give you free free vaccines?
It's there's no accounting for some people when the government gives you all this free stuff.
You know what rabbit hole I've been going down?
I was going to be, oh, sorry.
Yeah.
Tell me.
No, tell me a rabbit hole.
I'd love to hear this.
Yeah.
I'm working on for my next book.
I'm working on a book right now.
It's about the vitamin scam.
So vitamins.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, unbelievable.
I feel like, you know, it's amazing when you wake up to something, you think, how could I have been such an idiot for so long?
And especially when I'm like, I'm the person who questions stuff.
But there's always something.
There's always another layer.
There's always something we're blind to.
And, you know, so we can get kind of like cocky and think that we already know everything.
But I try not to ever be like that.
I try to stay humble and be open to like questioning and not get closed off.
But yeah, so vitamins, I probably did so much poisoning to my body in the name of health, you know, thinking I was also using an alternative to like pharmaceuticals, you know, just to find out that even kind of having some awareness, yeah, synthetic vitamins are not as good as the real ones, but then thinking like this whole vitamin supplement was real and it isn't, has all this crap in it.
And now realizing that they never even isolated vitamins don't even exist except as chemical.
I mean, they're not, they have never proven they're in nature, just like the virus.
It's the same kind of playbook.
It's the same players, even Royal Society members and, you know, same, just the germ, they had the germ theory and that worked for this thing.
And now they've got this vitamin theory, you know, that's really only about 100 years old.
And everybody, look how convinced everybody is about it at this point.
Sorry, you want to say something?
They're totally, they're totally convinced.
Do you think that there is any good?
I mean, like when I take high-dose vitamin C, I think it does sort of probably help me out a bit.
But maybe people can say that about drugs.
I mean, they do feel like they help you, don't they, sometimes?
But what's the side effect?
What is it really doing to you?
So yeah, I think it's not doing anything good.
Let's just put it that way.
And that's what my researchers I'm finding.
I wouldn't touch any vitamin C. Even vitamin C. Absolutely not touch that.
Yeah.
Even that.
Oh, really?
Oh, yeah.
It's just, it's made from like, it's just chemicals and mold.
And I mean, when you see how it's made and what it really is, and what they're, and it's not in food.
I mean, again, the problem is like you can see these effects.
You can take some acid or something and feel like it did something good because who knows what's really happening that you feel better.
You know, I can't, but, but you have to understand like the risks.
But when acid, you don't mean LFD.
I mean ascorbic acid.
And the reason it's called ascorbic is a problem.
Oh, I see.
Ascorbic is an interesting etymology to that.
It really means anti-scurvy, right?
It's something with an anti-scurvy property.
So because they found that lemons and limes and well, lots of other foods too seem to be like scurvy cures, they then deduced that there must be something magical and special component in those food items that cures scurvy.
You know, not because this is a mechanistic view of biology.
It's not like saying, looking at synergy in the whole everything and like realizing that there's mystery in the world and biology and we probably will never understand and we're not going to understand it by reducing it to its parts and putting it under a microscope.
We can't just accept that like, okay, let's add these things to the diet and help people with scurvy and like call it quits.
No, no, we have to like make something we can profit from more than that and make it into this pill form, right?
Because the chemists have to have a job and they have to sell something.
And so they decided to like supposedly, so they already discovered vitamin C, quote unquote, before they quote unquote isolated it.
And when they isolated it, it wasn't anything like we would assume is isolation.
They never really found vitamin C in anything.
It was more of like this whole weird process of like adding chemicals, you know, reducing, trying to separate things, adding more chemicals, and then coming up with this molecule and saying that's, ah, there it is, you know.
And then that's, when you see the process of how that's created and you understand that there's actually risk factors.
So I thought vitamin C used to help me, but it was weird.
It wouldn't always, right?
So it was like, oh yeah, this one time it helps really a lot with that cold.
It feels like I got better faster.
And then other times it kind of made me feel sick or like, maybe it didn't work when I thought it was going to work.
And I mean, I even let myself be injected with the stuff in my veins after having like dental surgery to help, you know, infection.
And I just felt like wiped out after, oh, that's okay.
That's the healing effect.
You know, I mean, we have all these excuses and we're told all these things like, oh, you're just, you know, it's a healing crisis.
Don't worry.
You might just, maybe you're just being poisoned and your body's responding to being poisoned.
Like, what if it's just that?
You know, and that's what I'm looking at now.
And I'm realizing it is that.
And especially when you look at fortification programs with the UN involved and forcing us to have vitamins and staple foods, forcing it on us.
And like, if it, it's a drug.
I mean, when you isolate anything, it's a drug.
Okay, so like to make aspirin, you know, they isolated a component supposedly from like willow bark, right?
And then you make aspirin.
But when you take something from the whole and you don't have all the other compounds and it's a chemical form of it that's not natural to your body, even if you have a pain relief effect, there's going to be a problem there because it's not how nature works or is intended to work.
And it's not going to be as good as taking willow bark.
Why wouldn't you just have willow bark tea and help your pain?
Because that's what that does.
But when you take an isolated component, you make a drug.
And when you have a drug, you create a dependency often, right?
So you have a dependency on it.
So often people feel good like on antibiotics.
They feel bad when they come off.
They might feel good on vitamin C and then they feel bad when they come off because it's a dependency.
If it was a real medicine, you would just, it would help your body heal and that would be, you wouldn't have to keep taking that.
You know, you wouldn't have need it over and over again.
So there's just a lot I'm learning about this.
It's fascinating and also angering because I think about, you know, even with my electrosensitivity and reactivity to EMFs probably worsened by taking vitamins or something, you know, thinking I'm trying to heal.
Because a lot of people, when they get into my situation where you're reacting to all this stuff and it's everywhere, you get pretty desperate.
And you're like, any kind of chronic health condition.
And you'll say, well, let me try whatever.
I had so many health experts.
I mean, like people, even like naturopaths, or telling me, oh, take this vitamin, take this vitamin.
That'll help you because it will, they give you the science.
It'll clear out your cells.
It'll do this, blah, blah, you know, mechanistic science.
And we, I mean, luckily I stopped because I was feeling worse, you know, but I let myself feel worse for a long time thinking it's a healing crisis.
But how long are you going to go through a healing crisis?
Years, months, years, weeks.
I mean, I don't know.
I just finally was like, I feel like wrong.
I feel poisoned when I take this stuff.
It feels like poison.
And because it is poison.
And the thing is, it can be stimulating.
B vitamins are very stimulating, for example, and it makes people feel like they have energy.
But that is absolute, you know, B12 has cyanide in it.
It's like the processing of B12 to make that has cyanide.
And vitamin D is a steroid.
Vitamin D makes people feel great because it's a steroid.
But then they have these skin, it'll even say like you could have these skin rashes and reactions and acne and stuff, but it's a steroid hormone.
It's also synonymous with rat poison.
It's literally rat poison.
So like we're, it's just, and it's add it to milk and add it to stuff.
Yeah.
And niacin, which you were talking about niacin being like really amazing.
No, no, no.
And that's another one.
I forgot what I learned.
I haven't looked at that recently, but oh gosh.
Just every single one of them is, if you look at the one thing I learned to do is look at the manufacturing safety data sheets.
You can look that up online.
You can put niacin, MSDS, manufacturing safety data sheet, and it will show you the toxicity.
And it's usually like acute organ toxicity.
It says not intended for ingestion or not intended, you know, to be used on humans or animals.
And it's like, and people will just even see that and blow it off.
They'll say, yeah, but that's just like because if it's too much, you know, because there's this whole idea we've been fed that it's all about the dose.
The poison's in the dose.
And there was Pericles or whatever said that like thousands of years ago, right?
It's like the poison's in the dose.
It's not, if it's poison, it's poison.
And it's going to be worse.
Yeah, the dose matters because the more poisoned you are, the worse that is, right?
But if something that isn't poison, I mean, the problem is people will say, well, you can die from drinking too much water.
But like, why would you ever drink that much water to kill yourself?
I mean, it's just the things that you wouldn't naturally do.
You know, I mean, it's just kind of like, like, animals know how to survive without, you know, science, right?
We did survive and thrive without science and without like without these vitamins, so-called, that are like saving our lives.
We didn't have them before this last hundred years.
Look how sick people are.
Look how sick everybody is.
I mean, how can the vitamins be the thing that's helping you?
I suppose the argument is that because of mass production methods for agriculture, that our food has got far less this stuff in it.
Therefore, we need to supplement.
Yeah.
Which I think is really funny coming from the same people who push the chemicals on the agriculture.
Like, it's like, so you've got the chemists saying, let's use this to make yield better yield in the crops, right?
Chemical fertilizers, pesticides, it'll be great for everybody.
We'll feed more people.
And they go, oh, whoops, by the way, that's now poison.
So you need to take our poison pills to counteract the, because you don't have your nutrients in the food that we poisoned.
I mean, come on.
You know, so there is this like, that was one of the earliest, Yeah, it's one of the earliest ad campaigns out there for getting us to take vitamins.
Nobody wanted to take these things.
They were like, that's ridiculous.
I'm not going to pay for some pill.
I feel fine.
I'm eating a good diet.
Like, why would I need that?
No, because the thing is, they first said the vitamins were, the list of deficiency diseases they identified, and then they said, well, these vitamins are what was deficient in the diet.
Ergo, we can make them, and then we won't have these deficiency diseases anymore.
So the scurvy and berry berry and rickets.
And the thing is, when they got around to having, and they're trying to promote these on the American public who were pretty well fed and didn't have rickets and scurvy and berry berry, they're like, well, I don't have those things, so why would I need these vitamins?
Then they're like, they started coming up with other reasons.
Well, you might, yeah, but there's other things it does for you that you might not realize.
And the thing is, because of our manufacturing processes now, your food is like not so good.
It doesn't have the nutrients.
They even start saying things like chopping vegetables could destroy nutrients.
And like, you know, we're just like, you're going to chew it right in your mouth.
So is that going to destroy the nutrients?
I mean, come on, like, so chopping it, cooking it can destroy it.
You know, all these things destroy nutrients.
And so like science has come up with a better way.
I mean, we've been brainwashed with the stuff that that's better for you.
Like, and again, even if it's true that like soils are depleted, that was another myth that came up with the soils are depleted.
You don't have vitamins in your food.
The soils are depleted.
Without really any evidence of this.
And why wouldn't, if you ate organic foods and you're growing your own foods, are your soils really depleted?
I mean, that, and soils can get depleted, I guess, or just rather poisoned, but they can also recover pretty quickly.
I mean, it doesn't take much to, like, nature regenerates, and you can just, you know, it's amazing.
And like, we can easily have farms that are not polluted and contaminated and eat that.
But the point is, like, if you are eating poisoned food, let's say poison food, not depleted, and you take a poison pill, how is that going to help you?
You know, it's not going to help, it's not going to give you back the thing that's missing anyway.
And that's what they convinced people that it would.
And that's where the whole fraud comes into it.
It's going to be a good book.
How far are you?
I'm pretty well into it.
I'm hoping like by the summer, you know, we'll see if I get, I mean, I do all my writing in the winter when it's just raining here.
And I, you know, so I've just got, I started researching this last year or year before, but I had to finish the other book first.
So I don't know what I'm calling it yet.
How do you receive?
Well, I save things.
You save gifts.
I do, but I save things offline.
So I don't read my articles online.
I find reading anything online is too distracting.
Knowing that even that you can like click on something is distracting and it keeps you away from deep focus.
So I save a lot of articles.
I buy books.
There aren't a lot of books on this topic, but I did buy a number of books.
It's interesting because all the books I've found, I feel like mine's going to be unique and that it's going to come for the approach of criticizing and questioning the idea of vitamins even.
Whereas these other books criticize a lot of the manufacturing processes or like show that they're toxic or that people are taking too much of them, but they don't really criticize the foundational part of it.
They all kind of accept that vitamins are needed or certain ones are needed or we could supplement them or whatever.
And I'm actually questioning the whole thing.
And I know there are other researchers questioning this and that's kind of how I got into this is I found some different writer, you know, articles online and Substack authors and things, but I don't know of any other books yet.
So hopefully mine will be the first one.
Agent, what's his name?
Agent 370.
Agent 137.
Yes, he is one of the ones that got me looking into this.
Yeah.
Yeah, he's got some great artists.
Oh, a lot.
Yeah.
They're quite persuasive.
They are.
I like his sense of humor, too.
He's good.
I don't know what to make of him.
He's almost too good.
He's so good that I wonder whether he's some kind of a bit like Miles Mathis, you know, whether he's some kind of CIA type thing or what.
Well, that's what's tricky.
A lot of people don't like that.
Because how can you be that specific and that important?
Yeah, and then how, and then, I don't know.
I mean, I guess you could be, but it is like, it feels suspicious.
He doesn't use his real name.
But then again, you can understand wanting to hide your identity.
So it's one of those things.
But this is like anything with information.
Like, so I'll look at his stuff, but then I'll further research it for myself.
And then I'll look at other sources and then I'll try to come to my own conclusion, you know, because obviously if you go from, if you have that perspective, you'll say, well, a lot of people's knee-jerk reaction will be like, well, I don't know who this agent guy is, and I'm going to keep taking my vitamins because he's probably a shill and he's probably trying to convince me not to take them because they're good for me, you know, or something.
And whereas if you just look at what he's actually presenting and then look at the history, which is what I love to do, and I've really gotten further into the history than he presents and see exactly who these people were who came up with this idea and how this all started.
And just like I did that with my book, Shots Fired, about the vaccines, it's like starting with Jenner, starting with Louis Pasteur, like with germ theory and Jenner and seeing.
And I read Jenner's biographies written by his close friend with all his letters in them.
And all these letters where he's doing, he was such an egomaniac type.
He just revealed in his letters what a bastard he was, you know, and like he was after money.
So it's just like right there, you know, they reveal themselves.
They tell you who they are if you look for it.
I mean, I was brought up to believe that Edward Jenner was one of those heroes whose name would know and would go down in history as one of the great sort of saviors of mankind.
I know.
How did he, given that he was obviously a complete shit, how did he manage to talk around the establishment?
How did he manage to popularize this thing?
He was part of it.
I mean, he was a master Freemason.
He was like the master of a lodge that like, I forget which prince visited, but like royal family members visited, you know, not just any lodge.
And he was the Royal Society member.
His uncle was none other than they call the knife man.
I'm actually, I'm just forgetting, Hunter, something Hunter, who was the father of modern surgery who experimented, tortured animals and, you know, cut up, it was a grave robber.
He had people like digging up graves for him, you know, so he could dissect the bodies and stuff.
And that was his uncle.
He apprenticed with him.
That's how he learned medicine.
He never got a degree.
He apprenticed with his crazy surgeon uncle, who was like a complete lunatic, who was also a Freemason.
And then he got him into the royal, he was a Royal Society member, got him into the Royal Society, helped his nephew out.
And then, so he never had a medical degree.
He got, he actually was given, granted as a, like, for his great work in vaccine development, he was given honorary, you know, like degrees from different colleges, you know, after the fact.
But he, at the time, I think, or he bought, he bought one before that.
So he bought a degree to be like, I'm a doctor.
But, you know, the story we're told is, oh, humble country doctor, naturalist who's a keen observer, nature, you know, noticed that the dairy farmer, that the milkmaids of the neighboring farm didn't get smallpox because they were exposed to cowpox and blah blah.
And not because they might be just having a better diet.
They're drinking raw milk or something.
No, no, no.
There must be a germ and there must be something.
And he just was, all Jenner did was take this ancient superstition of inoculation for smallpox and like rebrand it and make it crazier and more toxic.
Right.
You know, so there was this, it was a superstition that you would like scratch the arm of a sick person and then like mingle their blood with yours.
I mean like really weird stuff, like this blood ritual stuff, you know, and and that was from Asia, I think, I forget how long before then.
And he just took that and people were practicing that around him in England.
You know, that was one thing that was going on.
It wasn't mandated for sure, you know, but you know, smallpox outbreaks would happen still.
And they were always linked to like poor sanitation and poor diet and bed bugs.
That's an interesting aspect of that that gets overlooked because bed bugs create really itchy, nasty sores.
Well, bed bugs were linked to smallpox because bed bugs, and I've had bed bugs, and Washington, D.C. has a lot of bed bugs.
We have an apartment infested with them.
And I got react, and like you can, some people react really badly to those bites, and they'll get these nasty sores on them, especially if they keep scratching them, which isn't a problem in and of itself unless you're also like malnourished and living in other, have other like impoverished conditions, like what I would consider disease conditions to cause disease.
So it was really always the poor who got smallpox, and it was considered the beggar's disease because of that.
It was actually called a beggar's disease.
It wasn't like affecting just everybody.
So it wasn't really just this highly contagious thing.
I mean, there were doctors administering these people.
They never got smallpox, right?
And there was a doctor, at least one, who, a few of them, who realized they could treat it and cure it with just cleaning the bed, the sheets and making sure there weren't any bed bugs and then adding some greens to their diet.
Like they didn't have a good, well-balanced diet, you know, because they were poor.
So they improved their diet, cleaned their beds, no more smallpox.
And all Jenner did was like, anyway, he rebranded that and he started, he experimented on his kids.
One of them died young and like and his net or his nephew and just I mean he basically like they tortured to make vaccines from for smallpox.
They basically ended up getting diseased cows that had these push tools on them.
They called cowpox or they promoted disease on them and they would actually like shave their bellies and like cut them open and get them to like produce more pus and like and hold and strap them down so they couldn't lick themselves or anything, while they like used this as like a factory, you know, getting all this pus out of them.
At first he used things like um, his pen quilt, like he would use like ivory points and and like poke people and jab them with not even a needle.
They didn't use hype, so like the story that we hear is all wrong because there was no hypodermic needle involved.
So we were here that they're getting injected.
They weren't getting injected, they were getting scratched or poked and he would like in his journals, in his letters that I read, he's like ordering more ivy points So he can poke people with them, so he can put the cowpus in them.
And at first he promised that it would like you would never get smallpox if you did this.
And then it turned into, well, some people need it a few more times.
You only had to do it once.
And then you need to do it several times.
And then some people, he just didn't know why.
They had some other problem.
He blamed their constitutions and other things for it not taking and some people.
And there were people so angry at him.
I mean, people wanted him lynched.
I mean, their children were being killed by his so-called medicines, you know, and he, but he kept pushing the government to mandate because he realized that, you know, that if you force it on everybody, you make a lot more money.
He actually said, we stand to gain like so much money from this if we can just get the government on board.
Like he would, I mean, there were definitely politicians against it, and then ones seeing the money side of it.
And there were some like the battle there.
And so anyway, I could talk about this for hours.
It's in my book, Shots Fired.
But there's a lot.
Yeah, I go into that.
I'm going to have to get shots fired because there's that Dissolving Illusions book, which I which I've read, but it's too undigested, that book.
It's got too much information.
It's not, they haven't condensed it.
Yeah.
Well, also, I read that book too, and it's one of my sources, but she also, I don't know her stance now, but she was like kind of going, this idea of like vitamin deficiency and stuff, you know, and also, I don't know if she, did she finally question viruses?
Or, I mean, she did question, she questioned vaccines for sure, but there were other, she kind of like went off on, oh, people, during more recent years, I heard she was kind of like saying, oh, people who, or in a different book of hers, was like, oh, that's ridiculous to question like the germ theory or, you know, question viruses.
So she's not quite like red-pilled all the way, but not many of the researchers are, I guess.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She may have changed her stance.
Am I thinking of the right book?
Suzanne Humphries and Roman something.
Yeah.
Is it written by also by Roman?
Roman something or other.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah, it is.
It is.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I just thought it was one of those, I was desperate for a book to be able to pass on to kind of vaccine believers to show them that their faith was misplaced.
And I didn't find it the book to do so.
It was just like, they don't want to read that stuff.
They want it explained for them more succinctly.
Yeah, you know, a good one.
No, sorry.
I was going to say, I wouldn't say mine necessarily because they might think I'm like way overboard because I just question, you know, it's a thick book.
It's well referenced, but it's like my other books.
I mean, I question everything.
And I don't know if everybody's ready for that.
But there's one of my books was called Jenner, Joggernauts, and something.
Anyway, that's a good one.
It's short read and easy to read.
And yeah.
Sorry.
That sounds good.
When you read his correspondence, did you get the impression that he knew he was selling a scam?
Or did he believe it in his own myth?
It was really interesting because he's it's hard because I mean he obviously was interested in the money.
He got he was constantly angered by the people.
He seemed like an egomaniac.
Like he was angered by people who questioned him.
He was really tired of these.
He called them anti-vaccinists at the time and or anti-something else.
He had these words, already had these terms for them, you know, and they're, oh, they're just ignorant and, you know, they just don't understand the science.
He was all about the perfect pustule.
He's like, he could, only he could determine which pustule.
He was criticizing the other.
So he was training people to do these inoculations, right?
Or like vaccinate, he called vaccination because of VACA for cow.
So they were called inoculation.
He would sometimes say inoculation and then he'd say vaccination.
But he would, he had the art, like he was getting armies of them because he wouldn't make money off this.
But he would train like a clergyman so he could jab his whole congregation and stuff.
So not doctors, anybody.
But when they'd come back and complain that they weren't working right or people were getting sick or whatever, he'd say, well, he's like, I have some quotes from it in my book.
I can't remember right now, but really great quotes from these letters.
But he's like, you know, every somebody, like, every whatever thinks that he can do this, and he's not trained, even though he like sanctioned this or something, he's like, they just aren't trained to see like the pustules the way I do.
Like they're getting the wrong pustule, the wrong stages of the cow, you know, to take, or they're also like the wrong pustule and the people.
I mean, it's just crazy.
He was obsessed with these pustules and he thought he was some kind of expert.
Nobody else was as good as him.
And he just would not take, he couldn't take any criticism.
Clearly, like, you know, just he kept vilifying everybody else.
He was a martyr.
Oh, they're just after me because like, I don't know, they have their own agendas, you know, there's their own reasons.
And, you know, he's like, oh, the neighbor's farm boy first experimented on.
He would say, like, he had one of his letters, like, oh, I saw, or that biographer was saying, like, he's relating the conversations he had with him.
And he was trying to paint him as a humanitarian, had a lot of compassion for people.
So he's like, saying, oh, poor Phipps, what was his name, Pipps, or whatever?
He's like, I saw him the other day, and he looked terrible.
He's had, and he mentioned he had like, he's been jabbed like 20 times and he's still sick, but he didn't relate them together.
He thought, he said, oh, he's got tuberculosis, blah, blah, and blah, blah.
But he didn't have smallpox.
So his, so it worked, right?
Like, he never like, he couldn't relate like the fact that people got other diseases or sick from other things after they were getting jabbed by him to like his jabs.
The fact that he's like putting like cow pus into their bloodstream, you know, it wasn't nothing to do with them getting sick.
Just, I don't know.
I mean, it's, it's pretty interesting.
I found it really fascinating to read the two-part biography.
But that sounds like a good entry book.
Yeah.
Well, I'll let you determine that.
It's called the other book, not mine.
Which one?
Was it your short punchy chiller book?
Oh, yeah.
Jenner Jabs Juggernauts or something.
It was a nurse who wrote it, a Canadian nurse.
JJJ.
It's a JJJ title.
And that's a short and a pretty, she's a good writer.
It's pretty succinct.
And she kind of lays it all out in a kind of brief, like shows kind of something, stuff about Jenner.
But if you want a deep dive, you can read My Shots Fired.
Vaccine Weapons, Medical Security, and the War Against Humanity.
It's the rest of the title.
Sorry.
I've really enjoyed talking to you, Shannon.
Yeah, you too.
Where can people find your stuff?
And obviously you're hiding in the woods.
I was going to say they can't find me because hopefully.
But yeah, just I keep it all in one place because I try not to be everywhere online all the time.
So wi-firefugee.com, which is wi-fi-refugee.com.
So, because I have a book called Wi-Fi Refugee is my first one.
And yeah, all my books are there: podcasts, interviews, articles, links to the books.
You can order them from me directly too.
You can contact me there.
So just go to the website.
Great.
I hope you feel better.
Don't take vitamins, though.
Oh.
To get better.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
Well, I won't.
The vitamins were offering one of the few hopes that I might be able to speed up the process.
It seems to me that colds have their own trajectory, and you can't really do that much about them.
It's really annoying.
I'm sure this is chemtrail-induced.
Yeah, you know, it's a really good tea.
I got a really simple tea you can make that I learned when I was in Ireland from like Irish farmers is a garlic tea, garlic tea with lemon and honey.
It's a good one.
Oh, yeah.
Simple and effective.
Also, oil pulling.
I just want to leave you with this oil pulling.
Yeah.
Yeah, tell me about oil pulling.
Yeah, go on.
Oh, it's simple and very effective for speeding up colds, getting rid of them.
When you start, I do this all the time.
You just take some, I like coconut oil, but you can take olive oil or sesame oil, and you just swish it around in your mouth and spit it out.
But you want to do it for as long as you can.
It takes a while to get used to doing it a long time.
The ideal amount of time is 20 minutes.
And so I do that in the morning when I'm just doing other stuff.
And then you just spit it out and rinse your mouth out.
And it'll like pull, it's pulling toxins out of your body.
So it really helps just get that stuff like that stuck and just get it out.
And just if you have an acute cold, I want you to do that as many times as possible during the day.
It'll like really, really speed it up, getting rid of that.
I'll do that.
That's a great tip.
Thank you.
So it only remains to thank you, my beloved viewers and listeners, for watching.
