In July 2024, shortly before he died of cancer, I paid a last visit to the Somerset home of my wonderful friend Alexander Waugh. Alexander was one of the kindest, most generous, most talented and intellectually curious friends it has ever been my privilege to know. His rich and varied career included stints as a musician, concert promoter, author, keeper of the Waugh (Evelyn was his grandfather) family archives and researcher into the Shakespearean authorship question. (He thought it was Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford). Though he was in some discomfort, he died a happy man, lovingly cared for at home by his devoted wife Eliza. I haven’t listened to these recordings we made since. They’ve been sitting on my iPhone and the only reason I didn’t release them earlier was inertia. They also feature our friend Bob Moran. We talk about God, music, death, everything.
I just want to say I'm very honoured to be with you.
I'm really honoured, and I'm not a flatterer ever.
But James, I keep saying this to you.
As a writer, I think you're astounding.
Well, thank you.
No, I mean, you're beyond.
You're a very, very, very talented and given writer.
And who would have known it?
And I've already said what I've said to Bob.
But I think the creative spirit which drives all three of us, which is something none of us understand.
Because if I asked you how you did it, you wouldn't know.
And now, I don't know if you heard just before, you might have just gone out, I was talking to James about this phrase, I am that I am, which is the name of God, which you don't use unless you blaspheme.
And I've only found two people who have used it in the whole of the centuries that I've been looking at.
One was Edward de Vere in a letter to his father-in-law who says, I am that I am.
And the other is Shakespeare in his sonnet 121.
And that also has to do with numbers, but I won't bore you with that at the moment.
121 is 11 times 11, which is the name of God.
You'll go back to that.
Now, there's one other person who says it.
St. Paul in the Corinthians.
Really?
And he says, it is not I who laboured.
He said, I labored more than them all, but it was not I. For I am that I am, and it was the grace of God that was within me.
Okay?
Now, each of those three people are telling you that their mind is the mind of God.
And what did Jesus say?
He said, it is no robbery to say you are an equal with God.
Now, this is my belief where I've got to, and I need you to consider it, that a lot of the sharklings have not understood this progression in time from the times of Shakespeare and the times of honest, true seeking of God and true understanding, which goes back before Jesus.
It goes to Pythagoras and to Plato and to Hermes Trismegistus.
There obviously was a wisdom and a connection with God before Jesus came.
Jesus was a brilliant, divine messenger who never said he was part of the Trinity.
He said it is no robbery to think yourself an equal with God.
And this comes from a very simple point, that God created everything.
And if he created everything, it is impossible for him not to be in at least some part of it.
So that's my only point.
I didn't want you to come here that I preached to you.
I just want to show you the journey that I've got to now, and we've all got to our different journeys.
And I believe it so profoundly now that the horns on my head can't even begin to worry me.
I see there was a sign.
What are they telling me?
Well, they're telling me that evil exists in this world, that it's a part of this world, but that the universal law can never, never be uptipped.
We will always win, because that's the way God created the world out of good.
And you can't create a world out of good if there's no such thing as evil.
No.
Um...
Good.
Could has to win.
That's the way it's set up.
And whatever else you, whatever, whatever other interpretations you want to have of the story of Christ and the crucifixion.
For me, that's the most powerful message that we have from that story, is that in the end, even when evil has done everything it can possibly think of to destroy good, taking Christ and nailing him to a cross and killing him, it still loses as it has to lose.
Correct.
Even if you don't understand the stuff about redemption and vicarious redemption, all of that stuff, that message, I think, is what everyone should cling to.
He was undoubtedly the greatest teacher that humanity has ever produced.
But have we been deceived by the crucifixion, the resurrection, into making him part of a Godhead that then can be knocked down by the evil cabbals when actually we should be understanding that this goodness is within us all.
Now, one of the things I never understood, do you remember, James, when we last talked, we had a discussion about the difference between the spirit and the soul?
Actually, we had just started on that when we arrived, and I stopped Bob because I think it's a really important thing that we have to sometimes sort this out.
But there's another problem that nobody seems to understand.
Is what does Jesus mean when he talks of the Son of Man?
It's so important we understand that.
And I think Tolstoy did understand it.
That it's a title of honor.
That Jesus does say he's the Son of Man, yes.
But he says we can all become sons of men by acknowledging the life and the light that is permanently within us, that isn't effectively the Spirit.
All of us.
He tells the disciples that they are the sons of men.
And that's so confusing because what he means is you've actually acknowledged the divine within you.
This is the crux of so much now, I believe.
But I don't want to be a preacher and I'm not a preacher, but I just had a bit of.
But when he was talking about Son of Man, he meant as distinct from what?
As distinct from a normie, as you would call it.
Well, someone who might think that they're Christians, but who thinks that Christ is a hypostatic part of a Trinity to whom you pray?
I don't think Christ ever told anybody to pray to him, and I think he would have been rather rather appalled.
He wanted him to follow His teachings and he wanted to pray to God.
In fact, he says, The only prayer you need is our Father who art in the heavens.
It's very interesting now because I've asked people about this before when you know when you say your prayers, who are you praying to?
Do you talk to Jesus or do you talk to God?
And I've been slightly corrupted, if that's the right word, which it isn't, by the Psalms.
Which, of course, I know, I'm very impressed.
Predated.
Predate Jesus.
And therefore, I'm sort of inclined to direct my prayers to the kind of the although Jesus is mentioned in the Psalms, obviously, but the Lord that it refers to is God, isn't it?
Yes.
But now the leap, the real leap, and now you're going to say I'm satanic.
The real leap is that the God is utterly within you because God is all and God is nothing.
And God is everything.
And that is the intellectual leap you need to make to become a son of man.
And this is where you're going to worry, James.
Well, only a bit.
That's where it gets tricky.
But can I just conceive of this idea that there is in creating us and everything else, God imbued everything with a spark, a divine spark, a piece of himself.
And probably it's true to say there's a bit more of that in us.
Jesus knew it.
But then you begin to think of it in the sense that God divided himself up.
Whereas it's more that one piece is as good as the whole, because God is infinite.
It's not maybe because the Bible's been tampered with.
Jesus said, seek first, emphasis, I'm putting the emphasis on first, seek first the kingdom of God.
And then he says, the kingdom of God is within you.
Why did he say that?
Why is the first most important thing to seek the kingdom of God?
And then he tells you where it is.
within you.
God, he's talking about you now alive today.
I must say, I find myself very, very keen on the Gospels and the Psalms.
I'm not in love with Leviticus.
I heard that.
And I'm definitely not in love.
And I know I get...
I get torn to bits by demons for this.
I'm not in love with the epistles.
Paul, he can't write starters.
I know.
He's just absolutely...
He's also a politician.
But I know that for some Christians, he's kind of next to Jesus as the thing.
And for me, Jesus is way better than Paul.
Well, of course.
I mean, Paul would admit that.
Yeah, I know he would, but sometimes I think there's this kind of...
But Paul is a politician.
And Paul...
That's the vibe I get, yeah.
That he set it up because he wanted to control people.
Just as Aaron wanted to control the Israelites and Moses.
And I think that could be the case.
But he knew the truth.
Do you think he kind of hijacked it?
Who's the one you keep quoting when you say, the Prince of Darkness controls the Earth?
it's in John.
The epistle or the Yeah, in the epistle.
They're fascinating, aren't they?
The epistles.
Of John's epistles.
I haven't got around to rereading them yet.
I heard them once last year and I've found them.
I thought they're very interesting.
And how they connect to the Gospel of John.
Right.
Do we think it's the same John?
Not sure.
But what I'm very interested in is this word.
In the beginning was the word.
And so then we have this argument about Hermes Trismegistus, this ancient, well, the time of Shakespeare, they believed he was a contemporary of Moses.
And Hermes Trismegistus has his portrait carved in marble in Siena Cathedral.
The Catholics accepted him in those days.
I'm talking about the late 15th century.
Of course, they would now repudiate him.
But at the beginning of the Hermetic Corpus, which is the most extraordinary document I've ever read, he says this vision appeared to him.
And it was the word, but he calls it poimanders.
He never heard of the word.
But it clearly is the word.
It's the intelligence, the word of God.
And the word of God talks to him.
And he says, you want to understand God.
You understand me.
And I will tell you, I am the word.
I am the intelligence.
That this intelligence that human beings had does permit them to say, I am that I am.
That they are part of God.
That God created this intelligence just in man.
And I can see you both thinking, oh yes, that's the arrogance of man.
Oh, no.
Do you know what?
I'm not thinking that.
I'm thinking, actually, that's quite scary recording this because I know that possibly it's going to be heard by people who are going to be much more receptive, say, thanks.
And look, you asked me, you said some lovely things about my writing ability.
And it's a bit like when Bach wrote that marginalia saying that this is all for God and it's God speaking through me.
Bach.
Yeah.
I want to come on to Bach.
And when I'm having an off day writing, I know that this is Earthbound James doing it.
But when I'm on a roll, that's not me.
Because my rational brain is not capable of the kind of next level shit that I can do when I'm on a writing role.
You know, I look at my stuff, I think, bloody hell, that's a good phrase.
And I don't try at all.
It's just there.
Well, that's got to be God speaking through me.
And I look at my life, I look at where I am now.
Clearly, I've been given some kind of permission.
100%.
is a great privilege.
I'm not thinking...
That's what I have.
I will get ideas now that appear almost fully formed out of nowhere.
And quite often I'm not really sure what they mean.
But I don't, I'm getting to the point now where I don't worry.
I know that it must be important.
And it will, if I don't know what it means now, I will, in a few days' time or next week or something, I will realize that it's important.
I'm learning how to trust that.
And when you have these things arrive, you just have to do them.
You don't have to just get them out on paper.
I'm 100% the same.
When I discovered where Shakespeare was buried, it was factual.
I discovered things that had been hidden there for 400 years.
So in one sense, that's not as creative as what you've done.
But he is.
But it felt extraordinarily creative.
And not only that, I felt, why me?
These solid facts, indisputable facts, have been sitting there for 400 years.
Why was it that I found them?
And it was though I it really was as though I'd been guided towards them.
And I remember that sense with utter astonishment.
How did I get here?
I saw them and they came up in a flash.
My God, that has just been sitting there.
And how?
And the bits of writing, I've done some creative things.
But again, similarly, you don't know, but you know it's right.
There's something deep within one's corpus that understands truth.
Yes.
I think it's amazing.
I mean, absolutely.
And you should never underrate what you achieved there.
I mentioned this to Tiffany before I came down.
I said, I'm really interested in what Alexander's got to say about stuff because he is the guy, the only guy, who worked out the secret that has been undiscovered for how many hundred years?
Right.
By all the scholars.
This is open to any scholar.
Jonathan Bate could have done it.
Lol wouldn't want to.
But he didn't for some reason.
But I mean, for you to do it, you had to acquire the skills that have almost been lost of reading triangles and stuff.
But what came out of this, James, is this conversation we've just been having.
It came out the much bigger truth because I realized that Shakespeare understood it too.
And that's when we were getting to our important point about this hidden fourth.
But I'll come to that in a moment.
But Shakespeare himself, I mean, look at Hamlet.
What Hamlet says, oh God.
What does he say?
It's a wonderful quote from Hamlet.
Oh God, I would that I were in a nutshell and king of infinite space, but for the fact that I have Bad dreams.
Now, what is he saying there?
Think hard.
He's talking to God for starters, so he's not going to tell a lie.
Oh, God, I would that I were in a nutshell.
I.e., I am all, I am everything, I am one, I am that I am, but and king of infinite space.
In other words, he's admitting that reality is one and a total infinite of everything.
That's the mind deep you've got to make.
But that I have bad dreams.
What are bad dreams?
That's reality.
He keeps calling reality a shadow, isn't it?
Life is but a shadow, walking shadow.
We all run away from our shadows.
We are living in a matrix.
Hamlet understands that 100%.
But to be able to understand that, you have to understand that you have the Spirit of God within you.
You're not saying that David Icke's right, eh?
No, because David won't acknowledge God.
No, he won't.
He won't truth.
And that's his greatest mistake.
So he'll never be a son of man.
He'll never follow Jesus.
And if he even were, he'd be a normie.
And you'd say that Jesus is part of a hypostatic Godhead.
Right.
So basically, what we're saying is that, what, 95%, 98% of Christians have taken the narrow path.
I'm sorry, have taken the wide path.
So even though Christians are a tiny minority, or not minority, the Christians who actually get it are even because I think preaching has been wrong.
And I think Jesus, I'm certain, when you read Tolstoy's redaction of the Gospels, right down to what Jesus actually said, as opposed to what people say about him, probably a long time after his death, that Jesus would repudiate the idea that he needs to be prayed to in a special way as a special God.
I think the word begotten has been added quite a lot of times to the Bible.
In the only begotten Son.
Yeah, Jesus.
Yes, I never understood the only, but the qualification of the only son, because I always thought surely God could have a million.
We are all the sons.
He could have had a billion Jesuses if he wanted.
It's designed to manipulate people into thinking, oh, I know somebody who only has one son.
Wouldn't it be terrible if they were killed?
It's about a bad idea of the limitations of our human existence placed on God.
Well, he only had one son.
No, he can have as many sons as he wants.
We are all the sons of God.
Yes, that's the thing.
And Jesus would acknowledge that.
But the great confusion comes when Jesus says you become a son of man by acknowledging the spirit and the light that is permanently within you and following the will of God, become the instrument of God.
When you do that, then you gain the eternal life.
That's a simple message.
And it comes out through Tolstoy's high intelligence when he redacts the Gospels to what Jesus actually said.
What about the idea that Jesus may not have been the only figure like that to come along?
Although he was potentially the most recent years ago, but this idea that there may have been a cycle of Christ-like figures appearing at different periods of history when humanity was pretty close to destroying itself who emerge.
But now we get into another dangerous area that I think James would get worried about.
I mean, I'm not sure about that.
Is if we started bringing in the Buddha and the Krishna and Pythagoras and Plato and to an extent Moses, who were, of course.
They were in touch with the divine.
And why shouldn't that be the same divine who is the creator?
But there's a nasty exploiter of these people.
I do also believe we are in a shill world of danger.
But we've got to think profoundly about these people because I agree.
I would put Jesus in with that group of people.
Is it quite coat?
And the Chinese sages.
South American supposed to look like Jesus.
Pale chap with a long-hairy beard.
I have a book here that would make everyone shudder called The 16 Crucified Saviours.
Right.
That looks into pre-Christ people who had very much the same ideas, who were also crucified, who were also saviours of mankind, whom Jesus seems to be a model for.
And the purpose of this book is to say Jesus is a sham, is a crap, he's a creation of political people who want to manipulate us.
But my view is that Jesus was telling profound truth that had also been recognised by prior.
Or the other layer, if time is to an extent an illusion that we're trapped in, which I think may be the case, though then there was only ever one Christ, but we are tricked into perceiving we're on linear time.
That's the way we perceive existence.
If linear time is an illusion, then it may be that there was only ever one Christ, but we are able to see these different figures appearing at different times in different cultures because that's how we're tricked into seeing history.
And I mean, I get very confused thinking about it.
I do think there's something about time that's well, that's a fascinating way of putting it.
And I don't know if you know, but I wrote a book on time, just called time.
But Jesus himself says, live in the present.
That there is no future, it hasn't happened, forget it.
There is no past except in our memories or in books or in things that we can only understand through this present moment.
And the way to live is through the present.
Yes.
Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof, which is really good advice.
Although where I wonder about that is he seems to be saying that there's no room for long-term planning.
I mean, if you're thinking, yes, you're absolutely correct.
The planning is the one objection that comes up.
We can only plan in the present.
We can't know if our plan is going to come right or wrong.
But yes, you can say, if I don't eat, I will die.
So I will, in the future, need to go to a shop.
You're talking about something as basic as that, which is correct.
But Jesus says, don't worry.
The three people for, I'm going to talk about the invisible fourth in this room in a minute.
The three people in this room all understand that there may be a major food shortage, possibly.
It might not be.
Well, yeah, yeah, exactly.
But we also know that Jesus says that he says, don't worry about it.
For the birds, everyone is supplied.
He does.
And I believe in that.
Don't worry about it.
We're going to be fine.
And it's very hard for some people to get their heads around that.
Well, I'm kind of with you, but I feel irresponsible for...
For your children?
No, well, they're not here at the moment.
I mean, they're doing what they are doing.
But yeah, I do sort of.
I do believe it.
I mean, well, the only way it will happen is if you've got to totally believe it, that's the problem, haven't you?
If you want to move the mountain, you've got to know it.
Know it.
There is this big difference between belief and no.
And as you're aware, I'll try to get onto it, but I really struggle.
I'm not going to be able to explain it.
That I did have this kind of epiphany.
And you can say, well, I'm close to death.
And I'm on quite a lot of painkillers.
And there could be quite a lot of reasons why I had this epiphany that have got effort to do with the spiritual world that seemed to me to produce it.
But the epiphany was the difference between knowing and understanding.
What's that wonderful bit from the book of Job?
Where he says, where is all understanding?
Where is knowing?
And he sorts it out that God is the one who knows.
We don't understand.
Understand can't be seen and it can't be bought, really.
But knowing is knowing the truth.
And this jumps us right out of our intellect in some ways.
It's a visceral sense.
I've read so many old monks and divines, people who've tried to put into words the sense of an epiphany, which is a sense of light, a sense of deep warmth that comes within their bodies, a sense of truth.
It doesn't come across with words.
It simply doesn't come across.
You leave the other person saying, well, I'd rather like to have had that sense.
But I thought you had probably had it at some point.
Not like, no, I get little kind of mini things, but nothing like your extended.
How long was yours?
Six and a half hours.
So how can you time it so accurately?
Because Eliza said I went into some sort of trance just after breakfast, and then she came in and I was in this sort of rapture of mad, glowing bliss.
Did it feel like six and a half hours?
And then I was told the time, and something strange has happened to me.
I've become very suspicious of time.
Very, very suspicious.
And about two or three months ago, I started.
Again, this can be put down to medical reasons.
I wasn't having enough oxygen to my brain.
And I started having odd delusions.
And each time, the people I trust most in this world is dear Eliza, my wife.
And I started accusing her of lying, which I'd never have done in my whole life, about time.
I said, what time is it?
She says, it's 12 o'clock.
I'd say, you're lying.
I'd say, bring me a clock.
She brought me a clock.
I said, you've manipulated it.
It was so strange.
It's the strangest thing that's ever happened.
Then my son came along with his iPhone.
I said, look, he said, look, it really is 10 past 11.
I said, well, how did you manage to manipulate that?
But that was some sort of withdrawal of oxygen from my brain.
This was something very different.
But you've got no sense of time, in a sense, because you're in bed so much.
Yes, but I don't want to talk entirely about me.
I really want to talk to these guys.
You don't want to sit up a little bit.
Yes, I do want to sit up a bit.
So I'm in a medi bed for anyone who's interested in it.
What is a medi bed?
It's a bed that moves so you can stop getting bed sores and you can sort of get yourself up and down a bit.
I don't know.
I'm actually paralysed at the moment for my legs downwards.
Are you at all interested in that chicken or not?
Yes, I'll eat some of it.
That was very nice, that chicken, by the way.
Have some more, have some more.
That patter is absolutely incredible.
I'm glad you got that.
It's my best pate.
It is your best.
It's so nutritious to have a liver.
Yeah, my liver's amazing.
I'm going to get home.
Go and get something more to eat.
Find your head as well.
yeah Thank you.
Be a left-hander.
No, no.
You're now also mimicking Paul Wittgenstein.
Wayne wants to have a bad thing.
Well, yes, I've forgotten that I'm not tied in anymore, of course.
Yeah, you can do that, but you can't use the spoon so well with it, can you?
You might screen that onto the better part.
I thought because it's spelt, it might be alright.
Can I get some more black bread?
a bit more of the patties yeah get some bread to have with it oh i've got bread Thank you, darling.
Thank you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I think we should.
I think we should.
I'm so glad I remember to bring it.
All these things are delicious.
Thank you, James.
You're very generous.
No, not too.
I'm not generous.
No, you are very generous.
Generous with your time.
You're so busy.
Yeah, but I don't have to.
I'm amazed how many things you get up to.
Yeah, but I don't really.
I mean, anyway, time's a little bit.
Well, you set up all these meetings of which we've only managed to come to one.
I'm rather glad I didn't go to the icon in the end.
I wouldn't have been able to make it.
It would have been disappointing.
It was upsetting, actually.
It was like I'm just very briefly because it's boring, but had I known what I know now, I would never have done it.
I wouldn't do it because it wasn't a pleasant experience.
But I'm convinced that it was meant to happen for me to confront him on stage and for me to learn what I learned afterwards.
I think it had to happen.
Yeah, it had to happen.
I think it was important for your audience to go through as well.
Yeah, that's true.
It forced them to ask a lot of questions of themselves and which way they felt they ought to go.
Yes.
But it seems to me the greatest divide in the shark cleans at the moment is not just Christianity.
I think the majority are Christian.
But the way that we look at Jesus.
And I haven't contributed to the threads on that because it gets very argumentative very quickly.
Except that some of the things I've been saying now will make people extremely argumentative.
But of course, my thing is Shakespeare.
And it is quite interesting that Jesus says, seek first the kingdom of God, the kingdom is within you.
And Edward de Vere writes this famous poem, My Mind to Me a Kingdom Is.
And in comes Trismegistus saying, Your mind, I am the mind, I am essentially the word that is within you, the spirit of life and light.
So this goes back a very, very, very long way.
And I think we strike it out at our own risk if we only want to start from Jesus 2,000 years ago.
Well, I mean, if you start with Jesus, it basically writes off all history before Jesus, doesn't it?
That would be the extreme take on that.
So the theologians that try and sort this problem out in the 16th century, they said Hermes Trismegistus might be the answer.
And, you know, otherwise, did Moses go to hell?
Did Abraham go to hell?
So then the later theologians say, oh no, Jesus went to hell.
If you remember, Jesus went down for three days, whatever it was to fish out, fish out the goodies.
It gets into such a tangled story.
I always want to find out more about the detail of what exactly is supposed to have happened when Jesus went down into hell.
But I don't know what would be reliable.
Because it's a political fix, that's why you don't want to know about it.
Jesus says, Before Abraham was, I am.
Do you remember this?
It's a really important thing that he says.
What he's saying is, we all existed.
All of us in this room existed before Abraham, before God, before time.
And we came in with the word.
John, in one of his epistles, tells you what the Trinity is.
Does he?
What does he say?
He says it's God the Father, God the Word, and the Holy Spirit.
He doesn't say it's Jesus, he says it's the Word.
It's in the Bible, for heaven's sake.
If that doesn't mean that someone missed it and it was meant to be tampered with, I don't know what.
But it's right there, it's right at the beginning.
We were all there at the beginning.
Some people say the reason that what's meant by the quota, why it's called the word, is that it's referring to this divine frequency that's in a sound or an energy that suddenly brings life to everything that animates things.
Creative.
It's the creative and understand the bit of understanding which then needs to turn into knowledge.
I agree with that.
I agree it's energy.
Hermes would say it's cosmos.
Yes.
It's the beginning of the movement of the stars and the planets that creates the energy.
But these are complicated things.
And I think the devil and the nasty people in this world are utterly pleased that we're confused by them.
That the three of us should be sitting here now with all this truth that's in the Bible, struggling to define word, spirit, and soul.
And even these ancient sages seem to have slightly different takes on them.
Reincarnation, how does that manifest itself?
Do you come back in different bodies, or are we living simultaneously in parallel, in the spiral?
I hope, James, but when you heard I'd had an epiphany and had been pumped up with truth, I didn't necessarily know the answer to that very difficult question because I don't.
What a useless epiphany you had, though.
What a useless epiphany.
It's a bit like when Colwyn was interrupted by a person from Corlock, from his opium dream.
You're right about that.
This is something that made me think that David Icke was a fraud.
He said not very long ago, and I can't remember when that a lot of people, when they have a near-death experience, they see a light, they see a bright light, and they very naturally go towards the light because we're told, not least by Jesus, I am the light of the world, etc.
And that light is knowledge, and that knowledge is knowledge of God.
Therefore, follow the light.
And Ike said, no, don't do that, it's a trick.
Go the other way, go down the narrow path into darkness.
Now, what was that?
Sorry, it does tangentially touch on reincarnation, but what would you think Ike was bloody doing when he said that?
I don't know, it doesn't sound like good advice to me.
No.
But then the idea is what he was saying is: if you go down the light, you follow the light, which most people do, you end up in the internal trap of reincarnation.
Yes, I've heard that from several different people.
That reincarnation is a trap, a loop that you're essentially trapped in.
Whereas, if you follow the darkness, you become the light within the darkness.
You become one of the stars who guides this world.
And again, you can find this idea in Shakespeare and in Edward de Vere, that a man of virtue in the afterlife goes up and becomes a star.
This goes right back to Horace turning into Cygnus.
He says, I don't need a tomb.
I don't need to be commemorated as a great poet when I'm dead on earth.
I will turn into a swan and I will grow feathers and I will guide the earth and steer it.
And now we're back to this idea of guardian angels and parts of heaven which are looking after you and giving you your inspiration for your cartoons, Bob and giving the great inspiration to James for his amazing writings.
I mean, I prefer what Helen James's sister said about it, about reincarnation.
He said, I don't think God would be so mean as to only give us one go at this one chance to get it right.
Assuming we can perfect it.
Such a tiny, you know, a tiny little blip of 80 or 90 years or whatever, whatever anyone gets is with so much to learn, so many mistakes to potentially make.
And so late.
And also, especially if, like Jonathan Morris Lee's previous incarnation, you're this child in India that dies aged five or whatever.
Later.
I mean, that's not going to be a fair deal, is it?
So you want to come back as a.
I don't know.
But now you're on the biggest problem of all, which is the problem of good and evil, and I think we can resolve that.
Yeah?
Well, I think we can.
I think God understood.
Well, of course he understood.
He's everything.
He's all.
What is good?
What is perfection?
Without the existence of some level of evil.
But I think that I profoundly know now I can say that there is a universal law.
That the baddies in this world have realised they can tamper a little bit with free will.
And they're pushing that pendulum a bit too far.
But the pendulum will always correct and good will always prevail.
It can't because God created the world in his own image.
He wouldn't have created it any other way.
And therefore, good has to be the prevailing point of the pendulum.
And it's just swung too far at the moment to go back.
And that's why we're free.
And that's why Hamlet knew that he was prince of infinite space.
Because it's all of us, all of us together.
We're controlling this.
And there's a force that is trying to let us forget it, block our brains.
Well, if we're not free, if we're not free, then good has no meaning.
That goodness can't have any meaning if you're not free.
Which I think the bad is understood.
Which the baddies have understood.
And that's what, you know, the whole point somebody made.
I can't remember who was saying it in 2021 or something.
You know, other people have said it.
We demand freedom not because we want to be able to do whatever we like, but we demand the freedom to be able to do what is right when the world is telling us not to.
That's the point about goodness and free will.
And then you have the fact that evil, clearly there is a purpose to evil existing, and part of God's plan is that evil can run its course and have some opportunity to gain that stronghold.
I mean, why does God tell Archangel Michael to spare Satan when he has him under his sword because God knows that we're going to win and that's going to be the great example to us all.
It's on our shoulders.
But it's something we have to endure.
It's important for the human story.
That we must endure everything that evil can throw at us.
I mean that's what I increasingly feel now about all of this that's happening.
Part of me just wants them to bloody well get on with it because I think it's really important that we go through what they're going to try to do to us.
And only in coming out the other side can we even begin to build something new, which we absolutely need to.
But we can't start to build anything new until people have gone through this and really get to the point where, well, I mean, James and I have further to go, but properly raise their consciousness levels enough to understand that the world we were in and the system that had been built that a lot of people still think can be fixed, it just went wrong or it was infiltrated or something was always meant to allow for this to happen.
So we have to totally discard that and start anew.
But you can't until enough people understand that that's because the baddies have understood that they can keep us all in control essentially by keeping us free of pain.
Jesus teaches that our bodies are a waste of time, that the real life, the actual life, our real father is within us in the form of this spirit.
Now you could say I've been lucky to be dying of cancer, that I've, in the last month, experienced pain off this planet.
I've had as though there's been a bomb set in my throat that's gone off to blow my head off so my eyes come creeching right out.
And what has the modern political system done now?
It said, you know, we're going to look after you.
There's going to be a food shortage.
Don't worry, we'll give you your food.
Don't worry about your mortgages.
We'll turn them all into digital currency.
Don't worry about any creature comfort.
And we utterly understand the human being who says, I've got children, I've got a mortgage, I can't let them all down.
I've got to do what anybody says to get this money coming in.
We're going to be turned out of our houses.
These people aren't bad people.
They're all good people.
But they're not listening to the message of Jesus, let alone Plato.
And not enough of them are listening to Bob and to James.
So how essentially, when we're being shut off all through money, it's all economics, which is tied to politics.
And you, lot, you brave people, the people in this room have given up so much.
We all of us have decided to fuck our incomes for a while.
Well, for as long as we can, to tell the truth.
And it's spreading that that you're all doing it at your utmost and you're all in this room.
So maybe I've wasted your time.
You could be out there preaching to the millions.
We need some perks, you know, in this ship job of Jesse, isn't it?
We're in that downtime with our friends.
I'd love a cup of coffee.
I would like to have a cigarette with my coffee.
Please do.
With your natural window, no, no, you have it in here.
Okay.
Fine.
Yeah, cancel patient privilege.
I used to be a smoker years ago.
Well, I mean, you've smoked a road.
In fact, I meant to ask you: do you think you got cancered by the enemy, or do you think you're just too disturbed?
Yes.
You do.
Yes, but then I sound like another tinfoil hat.
No, no, no.
It was my assumption that you had been cancered.
Oh, I don't know if it was cancelled career-wise, but I was cancelled cancer, yes, absolutely.
Because they can do that, can't they?
They can give you a.
Oh, I didn't know if they did it by pressing the button, but I think evil forces came upon me.
Oh, I see.
You think supernatural level?
But they were doing God's work because I believe I was made ill by stress by someone who infiltrated the society, the charitable society I run.
Oh, yes, yes.
I remember you saying that I had a great problem there, and that still carries on.
But I'm ignoring it now because I'm living in the present.
And the present is blissful with you two guys.
Thank you for coming all the way to Sunday.
I'm so glad that I was worried that you weren't going to answer my communication.
But I was thinking, well, because I've had two previous spirit guides, as it were, Christopher Booker and Jonathan Miles-Lee.
Yeah.
Both of whom popped their clogs before I could have the final roundup session that I wanted.
Booker had a long, long death from cancer, didn't he?
He did.
He did.
And he was very happy about it.
I mean, he was very happy to have had cancer because he said to his son that it was a way of wrapping up his affairs, you know, and making his peace with God.
It's a real shame that Booker didn't live another five years because it would have been so interesting talking to him about this stuff.
But then we've got you, so I suppose it's...
I tried to find out my longevity.
They said with what I first had, which was stage four prostate, I had 14 months to live.
And then they gave me another.
I'm not very good at mathematics.
I'm good at numbers in a strange way, but mathematics.
Then they said, you have a 25% chance of lasting five years.
I don't know which is better.
Do you?
Anyway, they're both pretty crummy.
Well, they're also totally meaningless.
Totally meaningless.
I agree.
Those things.
So when my eyes popped out and I told you that, I really thought I was going to die that night.
So how do you deal with such pain?
I tell you, since my diagnosis, which was a year ago now, so I've made it one year, I had two tumours pressing on the sciatic nerves running down my legs.
And I really thought there was no pain like it.
But this thing in the neck, honestly, it was way, way, way beyond way beyond anything you could imagine.
I really thought at any second now, there's going to be a bomb that's going to go off, and that's going to be my whole head is going to blow up.
And it went straight out my neck.
And that was if I swallowed, sneezed, anything.
So I was spitting out all this spum.
And my wife was very kind.
The doctor was on the telephone and said, for God's sake, don't swallow the spum.
That will probably kill you.
So Elijah was literally just taking these buckets of spum off my.
What was in the spum?
I don't know what it was, but it was all those bubbles and it was stopping me from breathing.
What brand of backey is that?
Oh, it's just gotten Virginia.
I've now got the stage where I only smoke.
There might be something else in here that isn't.
Because I was on the Pueblo Blue.
Yes.
Which I liked, but it's so bloody dry.
It is dry.
But I will get some more.
I was just.
There may be some in this house, if you don't mind.
Because the worst pain I've ever experienced was when I had my pulmonary embolism.
Wow.
Which is, again, you've got clots pressing on the lung membrane, which I think is probably quite sensitive.
I remember thinking all I want to do is curl up in a ball and be buried underneath the ground and just I would want to die just but I'm sure that in the great scheme of things I'm a kind of The National Health comes to me every day often.
It says, can you describe your pain, one to ten?
I said, no, I can't.
All I can say is this.
Discomfort, pain, and acute agony.
It's much easier.
It's just three points.
But then this one I had on my neck went way beyond that.
So maybe there's this hidden fourth which we're going to talk about.
Are they any good with painkillers?
Are they giving you enough?
Yes, I'm not in pain now.
I'm in discomfort.
I can feel my bones aching.
I bought all my bones.
Just bone.
I've got cancer all over my bones and in my marrow.
So they're just uncomfortable.
I take a lot of painkillers.
Which I hope doesn't mean I talk rubbish.
No.
So by the way, back to that snake, which lucky you haven't spotted yet.
I like snakes, you know, but I've seen it.
I have this artist.
I have an artist, lovely, lovely artist friend who just died.
I spoke at his memorial and he left it to me along with those two Tudor doves up there which are carved.
So they literally just arrived in the house last week.
So I thought James is going to walk into this house, see the snake, see the lumps on my forehead and possibly smell the silver.
Possibly smell the sulphur of my pea, which I've been having to do in bottles in my bed.
And then I told him that the ruddy nurse, the palliative nurse, had come here and said, if you keep taking urophen, you'll have blood shooting out of your eyes.
These are all the three things you'd put in your first paragraph of your brilliant piece on Farage.
So weird.
Maybe I pre-figured it.
I probably remember who it was who said there are more things in heaven and earth or Asia than I dreamt of in your philosophy.
But perhaps you can remember.
But it seems to me that it's Hamlet.
No, no, no, no.
I'm teasing you.
No, no, no.
She emailed me about this.
I keep saying that Christianity is the biggest rabbit hole.
And it seems to me that there were some who take the trust of plan view, and they, you know, the Catholics, they know what to do.
Infiltrated.
They're Catholics.
Bishop Williamson, who I did a podcast with the other day, absolutely rock solid and sure that only the Catholics are going to get to heaven.
Everyone else, Bach is moot because he was a proddy.
He thinks.
Well, wait about Bach.
Yeah, but I was saying that It's very hard for people like us with our inquiring minds and our scepticism to just go, oh, right, okay, so there's the Trinity, this is the deal, no one comes to the Father except through me.
All the things that you're told that you have to believe, otherwise you're not a proper Christian.
And I'm going like, okay, why should I take all this?
I won't accept what any other expert tells me on any other field.
No, but they deliberately misunderstand Jesus when he says nobody comes to the Father except through me.
He says nobody comes to the Father except through understanding my teachings.
And they change it because they want him to be part of the Godhead.
It's very difficult.
It's complicated by the fact that unless we have Greek and I mean, presumably the septual gent is kosher, isn't it?
We can trust that?
No.
No, we can't.
Well, look, everybody.
People are creating religions when they're translating these things.
They have so much power.
How can you say that no one's just going to change a word here or a word there?
Every time you let's say someone just taps the translator's shoulder and says, each time Jesus says I'm the Son of God, just put the only begotten.
Let's just add those two words.
This is a fascinating thing.
I keep thinking about how everything that's happened for the last few years has brought me back to believing in God.
Or rather, as you were saying a minute ago, knowing that God is real.
And knowing that evil exists.
And knowing that he wants me to do something with the gifts he's given me.
I know that.
Beyond that, I don't really know.
But that's wonderful, Bob.
That's great.
But then at the same time, and you look at, like James just said, you look at all these other things and you think, can we really know that?
Do I know that, or am I just trying to believe in it?
Because there is a big difference.
But we have witnessed in real time how reality can be totally rewritten as it's happening every day.
I've just watched it happening in the tiny phrases they tweak, the words they insert here and there, that you know will give a totally false impression to future generations of what has happened here now.
Yes.
And that does make you look at all the different books in the Bible and think it's just not possible that this hasn't been tampered with and manipulated over time by various people with various agendas.
It's not.
And it's not to say that the truth, and there is certainly divine truth in there, and because it's divine truth, it's survived.
They can't get rid of it, but it is peppered with nonsense.
Absolutely correct.
Look, what you're saying is totally, totally right, and totally true, but I think there's a solution to it.
And that's we need the anchor, the anchor that doesn't change, and that anchor is truth.
Maybe an upside-down T, but it's a truth.
And the truth is within you.
Honestly, it is the salvation, and this is what Jesus was really saying when you scrape away anything that could be tampered.
It's the anchor, which comes to the fourth T, which I might try to explain, but maybe it's too much.
But it connects Shakespeare with God and it connects us with Bach.
It was Bach, it was a piece of Greek.
And it connects us with Bach, who knew about it too.
And I'm afraid it connects us with these ruddy Freemasons, but they are the proto-Freemasons.
Now, the Masons have a symbol.
This is where I got my boots stuck in the mud here, vis-à-vis Shakespeare and Masonic thought.
They have a symbol which is called the triple Tau.
To imagine it, it's a T, which stands Tau.
You obviously know is the Greek T, but it's the same letter.
It's the 19th letter of the alphabet, just as it is for the Roman alphabet.
So it's a sign which is a T at the top, and spurring out of the bottom of the T are two more T's.
Yes.
One on each side, one on the left and one on the right.
And Christians might say that represents the crucifixion, because in the medieval times, the crucifixion was always depicted as a capital T rather than a lowercase T, it was a capital.
And so you have Jesus in the centre and the two robbers on the either side.
That would be a Christian interpretation of the triple Tau.
It's always called the triple Tau because it consists of three T's.
Now, if you really stretch your imagination here and think very hard about it, it actually has four T's because the stem of the centre T has the bar that connects the two T's on either side.
So therefore you've got an upside-down T that is hidden within that symbol.
Okay?
Now I'm going to tell you something that John Dee wrote.
John Dee was the magician, the mathematician, often treated as a baddie because he talked to St. Michael and St. Gabriel.
We have all his notes on it.
Very occasionally, demons came into this, into these talks and he repudiated them and ran at them with spears.
So, okay, he's a dodgy figure in the Elizabethan court.
Queen Elizabeth and Lord Burley loved him and believed in him and listened to his prophecies.
Others said he was a baddie, etc., etc.
Anyway, in early 1564, he wrote a book called Monas Hieroglyphica.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Take away all this.
In 1564, you mustn't take this away.
In 1564, he published a book called Monas Hieroglyphica.
And in that book, he wrote.
That's very black chocolate.
And in that book, he wrote: The quaternary is concealed within the ternary.
Oh God, that I have written something that all may read, but only the truly worthy will understand.
Now, I don't think anybody's understood that until now.
I've never seen any commentary on John Dee that says what does he mean?
A, when he speaks directly to God, saying that the quaternary is concealed within the ternary, and B, oh God, I have done a really bad thing by putting this in print where anyone can read it and then saying, but only the truly worthy will understand.
Now, I've found among the truly worthy who have understood this Leonardo da Vinci, who I would say is truly worthy.
Now, I know you keep coming out, James, saying, oh, maybe Jane Austen is a shill.
Well, I don't think they are.
These are all pre, these are decent people.
Shakespeare, Leibniz, yes, and Johann Sebastian Bach.
Johann Sebastian Bach, in his very last work on his deathbed, wrote a piece called The Art of Fugue.
And the fugue is a very mystical, very technical piece of musical writing.
I don't know if you know what it is, but you start off with a totally solo tune, and then another instrument comes in and repeats the tune of fifth higher.
Well, the other instrument does an accompaniment to it, then a third, and then sometimes a fourth.
And Bach decided that on his deathbed he wanted to write a piece that maybe nobody would ever hear.
They would only study.
He didn't say what instruments could play it.
There are no instruments could play it.
If you try and play it on a string quartet, the viola has notes that are four notes too low for it to play.
You can't play it on a keyboard.
So nobody knows who it's written for.
But it was the most extraordinary and great piece of work.
And in it, he hid his own name upside down in a fourth hidden fugue, as if to say, I am that I am.
He was that fourth part.
What is being said here?
I hope it is following because it is a little bit complicated, is that there is this Trinity, there is this Godhead, but we are the hidden part within that Godhead.
And we have to stop.
We really have to stop your sharklings for starters, who are all good people, many of them.
I know you've got 77th Brigade in there.
But we've got to stop the muddling, the huge destruction that has come into this system by everybody shouting and yelling Gnostic at each other that they're evil and yelling that all these people forgetting the history of this thing, that they've been corrupted, the modern ones.
There's a lot of corruption in it, and yes, I agree with that.
But the original stuff has been stifled.
And the original stuff is pure good and it's getting close to God.
That's where I've got to, and that's partly where my epiphany led me.
You can say I was tricked by the devil if you want.
No, I don't think...
Yes, I've got to say that.
There are some copper ashtrays next door that look like the Glastonbury bowl that was dug up.
You might see them.
There's a silver one, too.
It's very difficult to wrestle with this idea.
I think it's absolutely true that the ego is one of our greatest enemies.
Mastery of the ego is key to most.
I hate to interrupt you, Bob, because you are very, very, very profound, and I want to give you your wind.
But I have to say, I just have to, that this doesn't tie in with Master of Ego.
Yes, of course, isn't it nice to be thought we've got God within us?
But it goes hand in hand with understanding you have to serve the will of God if you accept this.
Yes.
So in other words, you're completely humbled by it.
Yes.
Carry on.
Yes.
Well, that's more or less where I was going with it.
Sorry.
To master the ego and retain some sense of humility under God, under the idea of God.
That There is a there has to be a level which is beyond our reach.
And when you think about it, that was the whole problem from the very beginning.
Why did the when did evil start, if you like, when Lucifer decides he's going to try and usurp God?
Because I can have that position too.
No, you can't.
Oh, are these the glasses of them?
What happens next?
Adam and Eve is the same thing.
You know, reaching for the apple just symbolises, again, man reaching for something that is beyond his reach, or woman, and passing it to man.
But it's that same idea that you must accept that there is something beyond you and be okay with that.
So have that degree of humility.
But at the same time, I feel we can...
I mean, imagine a world where everyone was completely humble.
Very few people would attempt to do anything.
As in, we all need some ego, don't we?
Correct.
It's not about eradicating ego completely.
If I didn't have any ego, I'm not sure I would ever have drawn a single picture.
Well, that's correct.
There's an element of that.
This is the same with James's writing.
Anyone who creates anything, you must have some bit of ego there.
But that's why you're in the position of St. Paul, who says, I labored, I laboured more than they all, but it was the grace of God within me.
I am that I am.
You are accepting that your work is guided by God, and therefore by the will of God.
And therefore, of course it's you as well.
I think there must be some types of people who might be creators who say it's absolutely nothing to do with God.
God doesn't exist.
It's just me.
I'm just a genius.
And they are going on the wrong path.
There is a strain, isn't there?
Quite a strong strain in Christianity, which is against the intellect, because it's a kind of the serpent with his subtlety and his, you know, you're trying to sort of, by that way of thinking, you're trying to kind of compete with God.
But actually, obviously as an intellect, I don't quite like that.
It can't be totally true because we know that, well, Shakespeare's great, isn't he?
I mean, well.
And Jesus says it is no robbery to make yourself an equal with God.
Where does he say that?
Well, you're not going to prove now.
Because he's in Philippians.
So how does he...
Why does it not get into the Gospels?
Because they don't want you to know it.
Oh, I see.
Why did Giordano Bruno get burnt at the stake?
Why did John Dee say, oh, I've got to keep quiet about this fourth element within the Trinity, which is the material world, which is our brains, which is our logos, our word, our mind.
Because he would have gotten in terrible trouble at that time.
But that's because the church wants control.
It doesn't want you going around saying, well, actually, I'm a free spirit.
I could be prince of infinite space and live in a nutshell, were it not for my bad dreams, my bad dreams being reality.
And how does Gildenstern respond to that?
He says, ambition.
Ambition is the bad dreams.
They are the shadow.
We're living in a false shadow.
Shakespeare understands this so well.
And come on, he's one of the greatest brains that ever was.
And we're being told not to listen to Shakespeare.
Don't listen to Tolstoy.
Don't listen to Jesus properly.
I have to say, apropos of nothing, I was talking to Tiffany the other day about...
Is it partly because of the whole Russian element to it, the serfs and the retreats onto the estates and stuff?
But actually, even if they said that even if they were writing their books set in England, they would still be the greatest writers, the greatest novelists that ever lived.
I read Tolstoy, I read Anna Karenna, and it is so far ahead of any other novel ever written.
Now, don't tell me that that was just Tolstoy who wrote that.
That was God-like.
100%.
Yeah.
100%.
But is that not possible?
But Tolstoy would agree that.
It's possible that that is what is meant by seeing yourself as equal with God in the sense that opening a channel so that you can be in conversation with God.
You are worthy of that and you are able to be a conduit for his ideas, his messages.
I think we have to be careful of any sense blowing ourselves upwards.
What it means is that we are part of everything and everything is God.
For it, it's quite impossible for God to create everything and not be a part of it.
We're all part of one string.
I've often said about our ancestors, you know, I remember my father, he said some odd things.
He once startled me by saying, those who don't ever think of their ancestors are evil.
And he was addressing this particularly to Americans, you know, Americans who had very obvious Italian surnames and had no idea that their origins were Italian even.
But he believed that we are all cogs in a chain, in one chain.
But that's a very microcosmical way of looking at it.
We're much more than that.
We are all part of everything.
Every single thing connects because it is all one.
And it is infinite.
This is the jump we have to make.
This is an intellectual jump.
I agree it's difficult.
And James brought up a common but sensible objection.
How do we plan for tomorrow if we're all infinite and we're all just one thing?
But once you get it, you get it.
And that knowledge is visceral.
So all those people who aren't Christians who talk about we can manifest victory against the dark forces, they're onto something actually.
100%.
I think, try and look at it as though we are a cell or a part of a human body.
We are one person.
But within us, we have all these cells that move to protect these antibodies, these things.
You know, if something bad comes in, some sort of germ, then in moves a little army.
But the whole of the cosmos, the whole of existence, which consists of infinite billions of particles, let's say, some of which are constructed as human beings on earth, some of which we can never understand, are there to whiz around and protect it.
And that all that everything, that infinite is God.
And we are, like it or not, a part of that.
And if we think hard with our energies, we think good things and kind things and look after people, care for people, do what is virtuous, that spreads all around the universe because everything is in touch with the pendulum swings back by natural law.
When you think about that idea of preparing for tomorrow, what all of that ultimately comes down to is fear of death, of physical death.
And when you think about it, every single thing they're doing, all of this agenda is about trying to make people afraid of death, but crucially, not fear, spiritual death, which they're inflicting on everybody, which is the only thing anyone should fear.
So wise.
Absolutely.
You've got to be in my position to understand a highly amusing situation with national health and all these sort of people.
I mean, they come in and talk about nothing but pain.
So what's your feeling on what happens next?
Personally?
Where are you going to go?
Well, I'm going to die.
Obviously, sooner than you.
I don't know when.
it literally could be tomorrow.
I might die in a week, I might live a year.
I'd be a little bit surprised if that happens.
Things crash upon me very, very suddenly.
You know, sudden, sudden pain.
But I'm still being talked to.
You know, what are these ruddy horns on my head?
They're telling me something.
So when, as I said to you a moment ago, I was worried that one of my great friends said, you know, you should be worried.
They're telling you that Shakespeare's...
But, so that same friend said to me when these horns started growing in my head, he said, oh, you're turning into Beelzebub.
They're telling you, they're telling you to stop, reverse gear fast, you know.
And then one of my daughters looked at me, she said, that's not Beelzebub at all.
She said, that's the god Pan.
Interestingly enough, G.K. Chesterton, who's you know this rather staunch Catholic, very Christian writer, said that Jesus only really properly emerged after the death of Pan.
That Pan was the Pan was a goodie, for God's sake.
You know, the idea of horns growing on Beelzebub's head is a 19th-century construction, anyway.
Anyway, there's an argument whether Pan even had horns.
But that Pan loved nature, which I do.
I wanted to die out here in the Styx in Somerset.
I've always wanted to live in Somerset.
That Pan loved music, invented the Panpipes.
I read music at university and love music more than anything else.
But interestingly enough, Eliza said my feet were going into cloven hoof.
She started massaging my feet, she said, swelling up like an old-aged person.
And of course, my paralysis is down from my hips, which is where Pan had goat's legs.
And I was born a Capricorn.
And I love nothing more than the French cheese crotin.
So I rather went along with the fact that someone is trying to tell me that I'm Pan.
Now, if you look at the first folio of Shakespeare, there are two extremely interesting things.
There's a headpiece, which is an illustrated, lovely illustrated strip above the sort of contents page.
And on either side are two tipped-up figures, which are mythological figures which belong to the arms of Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford, and nowhere else.
But right in the centre is a figure of sort of Pan.
So again, I think it all ties in with my Shakespeare obsession.
But look, I'm blabbling, but all I can say is, again, one just can't help feeling there's some sort of messaging going on with this on what it means.
But I'll work it out.
And I'm absolutely certain and I can feel in my heart that I'm not turning it to the devil.
So please.
No, no, no, no.
It is just peculiar.
It was far from my thoughts, I have to say.
But I'm curious, do you think there is an afterlife?
What's your eternal life?
Of course.
You can't die.
But it's the eternal life of the real life.
This is the light of life that is within us that Jesus is constantly banging on about.
And we're not listening to him properly until you see how Tolstoy strips it back and explains it and shows you how it comes straight out of Jesus' mouth.
Not once, not twice, over and over again.
And we're not listening.
That's why the Tolstoy book's important.
That's why Wittgenstein wouldn't let go of it.
It's for all people, for all men.
Acknowledge his teachings.
And you know you can't die.
You can't die.
Your spirit is an immortal spirit that was there before time.
It was with the word.
And it's in you.
And it is partly intellectual because it needs an acknowledgement and an intellectual acknowledgement.
But it is partly visceral and instinctive.
Because you have to jump that gap.
Have you ever read The Divine Adventure by Fiona McCloyd, but that wasn't, it was a chap called William something.
No.
I've heard of it, yeah.
It's a beautiful book.
Tell us a bit.
I've got it in The car actually.
It's about three figures.
It's a story of three figures that represent the body, the will, and the spirit.
And they decide to go off on this journey.
I think they're living in a cottage by the coast or something, which is metaphorical, and they decide to go out into the world on this journey.
It's about the differences between the three figures and how they interact.
I'd love to read that.
It's really interesting.
It's a bit confusing at times as to whether it leans more towards it's not really Christian, it's not quite pagan, but it's just exploring this idea with those three elements of what make a human being.
It's very comforting to read.
Please, could you say the title again and say it quite loudly?
And I'd absolutely love to read it.
The Divine Adventure.
I can get it in the car.
Really?
Will you lend it to me?
I would really love it.
By the sounds of that, it's absolutely right.
Exactly what I'm interested in.
We're going to get them.
But we are all a bit worried, aren't we, James, that all of us, and all your sharklings who my love, we all get to a position sometimes where we look for people who will confirm the platform we've now got ourselves onto rather than reverse us a little bit and the que les pour mieu sauté as the French would say.
Yeah, I consider I'm on a journey.
I'm not.
I know.
I'm up for anything.
I really am.
Well, I kind of am too.
I mean, we except then I feel quite recently I found a platform and I feel very safe on that.
But it will meet with very grave objections from other Christians, particularly who found their platform and decided, well, I'm wrong and I've misinterpreted some of the Bible and the scripture.
But there surely is only one truth.
I well there has to be.
There has to be one, doesn't there?
Yeah, that's the thing.
And I think that the truth has to be one's watchword.
It does.
It has to be.
And Jesus puts it in the center.
I am the way, I am the truth.
I am the eternal life or the life.
In other words, you have the journey.
You find the truth.
Once you've found the truth, you cannot die.
You've got it.
And the center is very important.
Did you know this?
And I know you don't like Kabbalism and you don't like numbers and you don't like letters.
But here is quite an interesting thing that in Hebrew, which is considered a sacred language, i.e., the letters were invented by God, not by man, the word for truth is emet.
And it consists of three vowels.
And the first one is the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet.
The second one is the middle one, and the third one is the last.
So it rather has that similar thing of Jesus saying, I am the way, I am the truth in the centre.
I am the eternal life.
And you will remember, James, because I once showed you how you open up the dedication to Shakespeare's sonnets and you put it in a graph of in a column 19 letters and you get exactly that.
You get the truth.
I am the way at the beginning, the truth right in the centre, and the eternal life at the end.
These people knew it, and Bach knew it, and Bach knew that there was this fourth component that is the material world and that is particularly ours, and it's the mind, which is the word that is within us, was in us from creation and before creation and before time.
So you and I knew each other before we were born.
I did rather feel that when, you know.
We did.
Well, we did, yeah.
And so did, you know, if you're very lucky and you have a wonderful marriage, this is called a soulmate.
If you're really lucky, you find your soulmate who was your soulmate from the beginning.
It all sounds potty, but once you know it, you know it.
Yeah.
That kind of truth exists.
Viscerally, I keep saying viscerally.
I'm trying to use a word that means by inspiration, that means wordless that we're unable to put into words.
Can I just do one thing quickly?
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Vatican power.
If I'm correct, spreads far greater than just influence over Catholic believers around the world.
That there's a huge cash thing going on.
Now, I heard something, it's got to be Tosh, hasn't it?
The Vatican owns all of our birth certificates or thing.
Oh, the whole birth certificate thing is jolly interesting.
The problem is that we haven't got the.
We're never going to get to the bottom of this.
Well, do they or do they not own our birth certificates?
No, there's no doubt that all that stuff is.
Simple versions.
When your name is in capitals, it's not you.
It's a stand-in thing, yeah.
Yeah, it's a stand-in thing.
And yes, our birth certificates are bought and sold on Wall Street and on the other side.
Well, hang on, hang on, hang on.
Oh, that's true.
A fact.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
An undeniable fact.
Oh, under now.
Oh, just absolutely.
So you and I could go and buy some of these shares?
No, no, we can't.
Why not?
Because they publicly quote it.
It's not how it works.
But we know of their existence.
Apparently, the people trading these things don't understand that they represent human beings.
They don't know that's what they're trading.
But apparently is given financial value, if you like, as soon as we register it, as soon as we register.
And that is then traded.
Now, I have heard, and I think you know a bit about this, Bob, that you can write to HMRC and say, I demand a checkbook in my name.
And that people round here, I'm currently in the West Country, have been given tax demands and asked to pay their cancel tax and have written out checks on these checkbooks that have been sent them by HMRC that represent money that we didn't know we owned or existed, but are part of this trading system.
Yes.
And they will be accepted by the taxman.
Have you heard this, James?
I like what I hear.
Well, Bob probably knows a tiny bit more than I do.
We've got this checkbook and I think Aaron's got it.
Have you used it yet?
I think we have used it.
Well, hello, Bob.
Tell me about it.
But it's arrived through the.
We've got it.
You pay 50 quid or something, they send you the checkbook.
You buy the checkbook for 50 quid for the HMRC, and then you can write out, you can pay off your tax using that checkbook.
You can only pay, so you can't only pay certain things with it, but any kind of taxes it works for, apparently.
Some people.
But they don't want you to know about it.
They don't want you to know about it.
Now, you know someone who's used it, yeah?
Yeah, I know a couple of people.
Do you know Rudy?
Rudy's been doing it for a long time.
So I've paid my tax bills with the power.
They're hiding it from you.
People have done it.
But I think Eliza's asked for it, has applied for it.
Right.
But it hasn't arrived.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, you see, there we are.
There's another thing that we need to do.
So much, yeah.
Do you see what a scam they even know?
Well, arcane knowledge is.
You see, the thing that I was going to put to you, my problem with the sort of the Gnostic thing.
Your first problem is definition, and I can't let you go on unless you define what you say the Gnostic thing was.
Well, of course, of course, I agree.
But going with the caricature version of Gnosticism for a moment, the problem with it is that all the people, the sort of top-level people involved with this thing, seem to be about secrecy.
Correct.
And I don't think secrecy is a good thing.
I agree.
100%.
So it's a tell.
Sometimes you just go with your gut feeling and you think, well, if they're all about secrecy, why shouldn't everyone have access to this stuff?
Why should...
Because as I said, I believe that the Gnostics, when they started off, were under serious persecution.
Giordano Bruno is burnt at the stake for having ideas like this.
So they did have some reasons.
I agree, you can be pure and say, fuck, that could be burnt at the stake.
Well, he was for his beliefs.
But other people are too frightened.
We have no excuse in this present day and age to be secretive about anything like that.
If Gnosticism, however, we're defining it in its particulars, but if it is the truth or it goes towards the truth, there is absolutely no reason to be secret about it unless you're shit.
And you think, oh, I can use this knowledge to my own benefit and against other people, which is, I believe, what's happening at the top end.
That is the problem.
That's where we're at.
That's the problem.
Not that Gnosticism is evil.
But if selfish people say, oh, I have this power within me.
I can do this.
I can control everybody else.
That's where it goes wrong.
I think that's something that people need to accept.
A lot of people still don't.
Is that whoever, you know, regardless of whether it's the Great Pope or somebody else, whatever the group of people are at the top who've planned all of this and mean to see it through, they have a lot of the answers that we're sitting here speculating about and scratching our heads about.
They know an awful lot about.
Except I think we know the answers too.
And I think Hamlet knew the answers.
Not that they, I think they've got something crucial things wrong.
As in, a big one being that they win.
Yeah, yeah.
But the big one is that they win on this earth with their own creature comforts.
That's where they've got it wrong.
It's about the eternal life and it's about serving the will of God, which is fundamentally, 100% fundamentally good despite the evil in the world.
It's a brain teaser, but we can get around it.
But you didn't really answer my question.
Maybe because it's such a sort of cross question.
Go for it.
I'll try.
Do we.
Is there a heaven?
Do we go somewhere cooler than this?
Well, there's everything.
Which is eternal, which is bliss.
It's eternal comfort and joy.
If that's not heaven, what is fox hunting?
Yes, of course there's fox hunting.
Anything you like.
Of course there's fox hunting.
Because there's everything.
And that's why there's some evil.
There's no C, apparently.
There was.
There's no C. No C. There's a passage in Revelation, I think, which says that there's going to be no C. He says something that says that.
It says there's no C in heaven.
Yeah, no C when it all gets better.
Revelation is the hardest for me.
So I told you, didn't I?
I once wrote a book just called God.
Yes.
And who should knock on the door but a set of Jehovah's Witnesses?
And most people say, oh, please go away.
You're such boars and you don't know anything about anything except the book of Revelation.
You don't seem to understand the book.
But I was writing this book on God, so I said, do come in.
I'd love to talk to you.
And I sat and talked and talked to them.
They were desperate to get away from me.
These people have had the door slammed in their faces a million times.
I wouldn't let them go.
It was quite funny.
The last thing I want is an actual theological conversation.
Well, I just read the whole Bible through a couple of times and I was pretty big on it.
I've got to tell you, I've got these evangelical friends who are, who are, they're, they communicate with God and they get all the kind of things that one rather envies, these messages.
Anyway, so this is one I got from...
Okay, listen to this.
where is it Are you on hot toilet?
Yeah, what do you reckon about telephone?
What do you reckon about teleportation?
And this is what one of their numbers, Stefan.
He says, someone he knows was in Toronto.
He felt God tell him to go to the airport.
Then he heard God say, go to Johannesburg.
He had no money.
God said, go to the toilet and wait there.
I'm sure God wouldn't use the word like toilet, would he?
God said, go to the toilet and wait there until I tell you to leave.
So he did.
About two hours later, God said, You can go now.
He walked out of the door and he was in Johannesburg.
Wow.
Well, I have only a few things to say on that.
A very interesting character called Rupert Sheldrake.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Morphic resonance.
I've got to get him on the pod.
He's a very interesting man, actually.
and he has ideas about sight you know do aren't So what's actually happening is light reflecting off you, as we would be, I think, traditionally taught, firing back through my eyes, somehow registering inside my brain and storing itself there as an image or creating itself as an image inside my brain.
Is that what's happening?
Or is there something else rather more mystical happening?
Are you actually traveling towards me and I towards you?
And there's a different type of meeting going on altogether.
Sheldrake's written about this and done some very interesting talks, and I've questioned him on it, and he comes up with very interesting answers.
And I think we all have to be skeptical about both time and place.
I think that again, back to this amazing passage in Job where do we find understanding?
We can't see it.
We can't see God.
We can't.
God can measure the waters.
Now, I think what is meant by that is it's impossible to measure waters, but God can do it.
God can see the ends of the earth.
There's no price we can pay for it.
So I think God, of which we are part, does understand even your friend who teleported himself to the lavatory or the toilet, as you put it, in Johannesburg.
Is that the same as saying nothing's impossible?
I don't think it is.
But I think we need to listen to these people.
But then you don't have time.
You, James, listen to more of these people than anyone else on this world with great patience.
I do, I do.
And you know, it's jolly unfair on my.
I think one of the reasons I get impatient with the sharklings is that they don't spend all their time listening to as much as I do.
And so they're always going to be behind because they haven't done their homework.
And I get kind of impatient because they're where I was two or three years ago.
But you admit to yourself and to others that you're not a details man.
You look at the overall picture.
And that's a very, very necessary type of intelligence.
There's no scorning it.
We need people like you.
Though you'd be horrified to know, of course, Boris Johnson is similar too.
And thank God there are other people who look at details.
So I think it takes all type of man to understand as much as we possibly can.
And we are a shared part of the great intelligence, the universal intelligence that is God.
But yes, we need people like you who Can actually bring people together and admit that you look at the overall, but you're so bright that you're looking at the overall is, I believe, very helpful.
I'd be very dangerous, wouldn't I?
If I could do the big picture and the imagine.
Yes, I don't think then they really would take you.
Yeah, they would.
I mean, they'd have to.
They'd absolutely have to.
Yeah.
Well, I think the details man is more vulnerable to attack because you can plant false detail.
Oh, that's true.
Yes, I think that's true.
Much more easily, I think.
Yes.
It's the hedgehog and the.
No, the tortoise and the hair.
No, no, no, no.
The hedgehog knows one big thing, and the other thing knows one hedgehog.
Oh, right, yes.
Is that Aesop or something?
No, it's not.
it's more recent than that.
Hedgehog and the, is one of the, Yeah, but it was Booker who often quite did it.
The hedgehog knows one big thing and the other animal knows lots of little things.
And I'm the hedgehog.
Well, I think they're just different personality, different mental constructs.
I mean, the thing I always say is the things that make me shit are the things that make me good.
You know, the fact that I'm sort of impatient and sketchy is also what means I can just go bloom like that.
But it's also an awareness of what's wrong.
And I remember saying to you some time ago, very hard to discern the truth and very easy to discern falsehood.
The shit is the false that you get rid of.
Yeah.
I remember when Boris Johnson came up with this three-word thing he thought was so clever about Brexit, Get Brexit Done.
Do you remember?
I was pro-Brexit.
And I was horrified by that saying.
I said it sounded like he just wants to have a shit.
It turns out he did.
Yeah, he did.
Yeah, silly brute.
I mean, oh dear, oh dear.
But I think we were talking when you were out about love and the importance of love.
Something that as British men, we all got a bit queer and didn't want, you know, we can't talk about love.
We're British officers.
Rubbish.
Love is this form of truth.
And in Bob's cartoons, I was saying how much I admire the sentimental aspect as well as the very vicious, cruel aspect, because underlying Bob's cartoons is love of all humanity.
And I think we really, really cleanse ourselves when we realize that we are all part of God and therefore we love even Boris Johnson and Kias Dharma, even though we can see they're complete puppets and they're going to destroy and try to make so much bad things happen.
That duality is interesting.
I mean, I don't think my brutal cartoons full of Michelle Obama's cocks and ballbacks and things would carry the same weight if I didn't also have those very heartfelt sentimental cartoons about love and vice versa.
The stuff about love might seem gooey and naff if I weren't also doing these brutally satirical things alongside if I'm allowed to interpret your cartoons even against your own vision of them, I would say that your drawings of Michel Obama's cock and balls is done out of love.
Well because it's the truth.
Wouldn't she be much happier if she just showed us our cock and balls?
Well we don't need to see them.
Just say I've got a cock and a ball and yes I'm a transgender.
You can see it swinging around when she wears a particular way.
So her unhappiness which I'm sure she must have is living a lie.
Jake when you did your thing with Dick the other day and you were talking about Taylor Swift and you kept very casually referring to him as he.
It was a few minutes before Dick realised.
Yeah, well Taylor Swift's got Is a lot more careful about tying up his giblets than he is indeed.
But there's a tell.
He wears very high-waisted knickers, which of course have become a sort of fashion thing.
It's like it's a fashion, but it's not.
Apparently, the stuff that high-level trans to.
There's four stages.
There's the kind of, the sort of League of Gentlemen type one, who are obviously blokes, and then it goes all the way up to the...
So the penultimate tier would be people that you are aware are transgender, but pass very convincingly as a woman, even though you know they're transgender.
And the final stage is the one that are absolutely they pretend to be the thing.
So, for example, a lot of quite well, quite a few Hollywood female stars are male.
Sandra, sometimes the clues in the name, often the clue is in the name, Sandra Bullock.
Yes.
Tina Turner.
Yes.
Turner.
Hello.
Brilliant, brilliant.
Tina Turner's a man.
Cher is a man, which sort of puts a new complexion on their sunny.
In English to share.
Share sex.
Yeah, I wonder, well, I don't know what the.
She's supposed to be Armenian, isn't she?
Cher in French means deer.
Cher, yeah, yeah.
But it also could mean a cherub.
Who's transgender?
Yeah, maybe it's hard to fathom that one.
And apparently, this surprised me.
The Supremes.
The Supremes.
Right.
Now, the end goal in this is surely to get people worshiping the Baphomet.
Baphomet.
But the Baphomet is a slightly 19th century construction by Satanists.
Is he?
I think I'm correct on that.
Can you still be recording?
It can't have enough power in it.
Oh, probably I'm running out.
So this is the idea.
we worship the Baphomet.
But that requires at some point a big reveal, don't you think?
Yes, I think that's part of it.
And then, yes.
Surely they can't carry on with the sequel, there's no point.
Or are they just laughing at us?
But Paul Pascal I'm going to now have one as well, just because have you heard of this book, The Infernal Dictionary?
Yes.
I've recently got this because I spent ages looking for a good English translation, good quality.
What is it?
You've actually got a copy.
It's originally French.
Oh, wow.
This is a sort of deluxe edition.
Fascinating.
And it's an 8 and Z. I kept seeing these wonderful etchings, woodcuts, depictions of demons online when I did Google searches and things like that.
Where are these all coming from?
They're from this book.
Wow.
It's really fascinating.
So who published it and who's behind it?
This J. Colin DePlancy.
Wow.
Wow.
So who's behind this?
It was published in France in 1800 and something.
Wow.
But I've had this idea that I want to do a series of pictures that are kind of like a modern demonology.
Oh, that would be so good.
I'd love that.
And I'd wanted to do it in this kind of style.
Wow.
It's great.
And it tells, you know, every entry tells you where the demon is in the hierarchy and what they specialised in and how they appeared.
Different ways of being.
There's a demon that specialises in anal sex.
Yeah.
That wants you to.
Do you remember that tragic thing?
There was a vogue in America when Girls were encouraged to preserve their virginity by having anal sex instead of their first date with laughing, but you shouldn't because it's sad.
But apparently there is a demon that really wants everyone to have anal sex.
Disgusting arse.
Well, I once saw a demon.
I had a troubled, a troubled girlfriend whose brother was in Broadmoor.
He murdered somebody.
I think there was a kind of.
I think there was a sort of troubled.
And she woke one night screaming.
And at the same time, I saw what was in her head.
And it was a...
And I remember it very vividly.
I mean, it was horrible.
You saw it?
Yeah, I totally saw it.
Before you on her face.
It was in my mind.
But the thing was, I thought nothing of this for many years.
And then I was looking at a book reading about descriptions of demons and stuff.
And I recognised whatever demon it was that I'd seen.
I hadn't sort of informed that.
Totally.
Why did you stop?
Why did I stop what?
Talk again.
Oh, I thought I'd got to the end of that point.
No, you stopped in the middle of a sentence.
Stop that fucking demon from stopping you.
Say what you were going to say.
You just suddenly stopped.
Did I?
Yes.
How weird.
He's still in there, Tristan.
He's still there.
He's still there fighting me trying to stop me.
That's what you're talking about him.
You vouted him.
Well.
You saw him.
You said you saw him.
Then you said you'd gone to a book.
Oh, well, no, no, but that was it.
Unrecognized.
I...
I...
I never made sense of what I'd seen until I read about him years later, quite recently, in a book described.
And a lot of these.
A lot of things that go on in.
I got this from this book.
She was a pain.
She wouldn't go on the podcast in the end because she got grumpy with me or something.
she wrote a book about feminism, it's called Cult Feminism Satanic...
She talks about how the feminist movement is essentially satanic, which it is when you look at the origins of it.
Or particularly when it encourages hatred of men.
But the thing that when you see female pop stars doing this, they are imitating, I think it's Carly, who also, I think, had skulls round, you know, men's skulls round his head.
Really?
Or her head, rather.
The whole female pop star thing is about evil goddess worship.
Because God is not.
He is a patriarch, isn't he?
He's not a kind of.
Or are you thinking he is?
God is the creator of.
God is the creator of everything.
Yeah, but he is a he.
Well, that has to do with the English language.
He can mean he or she.
Philip Sherard writes about this.
It says that God contains within him, because you refer to God as him, but within God is both the male and the female energy.
Has to be.
That he chose to split and create men and women that are distinct and necessarily distinct.
And one.
But one at the same time.
Because Sherard writes a really good short book on.
I can't remember what it's called, but it's to do with love and sex and God, the sacrament of love, basically, between men and women.
And how what is so significant about marriage and relationships between men and women is that in coming together you are getting closer to God because you're unifying those two energies as one as one in God.
It's really interesting.
Well, he's right.
This is very close.
He's got to be on the money.
Sorry.
He's got to be on the money there.
I mean, it's unfortunate for our gay friends, but I don't think that they're.
I don't think that's particularly part of God's plan.
But this goes right back to Plato and Socrates.
What did they say?
I've got a very interesting book here about Plato and Shakespeare and beauty.
And that covers this area of love.
But love, of course, is so much bigger than erotic love.
But the love of beauty is entangled in it.
Well, Sherard also writes that he thinks that when we were created, before the fall, we would have loved, we would have known love, absolutely, and we would have been capable of loving one another, but we wouldn't have needed to resort to these base bestial methods of reproduction.
For example, he said we could have had children without getting all gooey and messy.
We have to do now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But isn't it amazing we overcome the gooey and messy through the love?
Well, yes.
I quite like the gooey and messy, I have to say.
That's called love.
No, I know.
Absolutely.
Is it that strain?
I don't get that.
That's another thing I don't get about Paul, for example.
He does seem to kind of prefer one to be celibate.
Oh, he says you mustn't touch a woman.
Yeah, no, Sherard is dead against that.
He says it's a sacrament.
I think Paul is a miserable, he's a miserable sod who can't write.
And obviously I accept that he had a pretty grim end and he did a lot of good work.
but I tell you what, I'm, I'm stuck in, I'm stuck in the epistles at the moment.
And I do not, And every night I'm thinking, oh, another chapter of Romans.
Oh no.
Please, God, I know I shouldn't dislike it, but I feel the same.
I feel very slightly guilty if I try and invoke Paul for an argument.
Although Ephesians 6 is great, I mean, that's the problem.
Well, I notice you keep saying that.
Look, we can't.
Are we allowed just to pick and choose our Paul and then say in the same sentence?
He can't write.
He's a politician.
He's a perverter of truth about Jesus.
Just because he's wrapped up in the Bible findings.
Ephesians 6 is rock solid because it's been confirmed by Michael Heiser.
And Michael Heiser.
the Divine Council is really interesting and this is one of the extraordinary things Psalm 82 is the key psalm.
It's a tricky one.
It's tricky because a bit like the story of Nimrod and the Tower of Babel,
