In July 2024, shortly before he died of cancer, I paid a last visit to the Somerset home of my wonderful friend Alexander Waugh. Alexander was one of the kindest, most generous, most talented and intellectually curious friends it has ever been my privilege to know. His rich and varied career included stints as a musician, concert promoter, author, keeper of the Waugh (Evelyn was his grandfather) family archives and researcher into the Shakespearean authorship question. (He thought it was Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford). Though he was in some discomfort, he died a happy man, lovingly cared for at home by his devoted wife Eliza. I haven’t listened to these recordings we made since. They’ve been sitting on my iPhone and the only reason I didn’t release them earlier was inertia. They also feature our friend Bob Moran. We talk about God, music, death, everything.
I just want to say I'm very honoured to be with you.
Really honoured and I'm not a flatterer ever.
But James, I keep saying this to you.
As a writer, I think you're astounding.
Well, thank you.
No, I mean you're beyond.
You're a very, very, very talented and gift-given writer.
And who would have known it just?
And I've already said what I've said to Bob.
But I think the creative spirit which drives all three of us, which is something none of us understands.
Because if I asked you how you did it, you wouldn't know.
And now, I don't know if you heard just before you might have just gone out, I was talking to James about this phrase, I am that I am, which is the name of God, which you don't use unless you blaspheme.
And I've only found two people who have used it in the whole of the centuries that I've been looking at.
One was Edward DeVere in a letter to his father in law who says, I am that I am.
And the other is Shakespeare and his sonnet one to one.
And that also has to do with numbers, but I won't bore you with that at the moment.
One to one is eleven times eleven, which is the name of God, but you can come back to that.
Now there's one other person who says it, Saint Paul in the Corinthians.
Really?
And he says, It is not I who laboured.
He said, I laboured more than them all, but it was not I, for I am that I am, and it was the grace of God that was within me.
Okay?
Now each of those three people are telling you that their mind is the mind of God.
And what did Jesus say?
He said It is no robbery to say you are an equal with God.
Now this is my belief where I've got to and I need you to consider it that a lot of the sharklings have not understood this progression in time from the times of Shakespeare and the times of honest, true seeking of God and true understanding, which goes back before Jesus.
It goes to Pythagoras and to Plato and to Hermes Trismegistus.
There obviously was a wisdom and a connection with God before Jesus came.
Jesus was a brilliant, divine messenger who never said he was part of the Trinity.
He said it is no robbery to think yourself unequal with God.
And this comes from a very simple point that God created everything.
And if he created everything, it is impossible for him not to be in at least some part of it.
So that's my only point.
I didn't want you to come here that I preach to you.
I just want to show you the journey that I've got to now and we've all got to our different journeys.
And I believe it so profoundly now that the horns on my head can't even begin to worry me.
I see there's a sign.
What are they telling me?
They're telling me that this evil exists in this world.
That it's a part of this world.
But that the universal law can never, never be uptipped we will always win because that's the way God created the world out of good and you can't create a world out of good and there's no such thing as evil no good has to win that's the way it's set up and whatever else you whatever other interpretations you want to
have of the story of Christ and the crucifixion.
For me, that's the most powerful message that we have from that story is that in the end, even when evil has done everything it can possibly think of to destroy good taking christ and netting him to a cross and killing him it still loses as it has to lose correct even if you don't understand the stuff about redemption and vicarious redemption all of that stuff that that
message i think is what we everyone should cling to he was undoubtedly the greatest teacher that this that humanity has ever produced.
but have we been deceived by the crucifixion and the resurrection into making him part of a Godhead that then can be knocked down by the evil cabals when actually we should be understanding that this goodness is within us all.
Now, one of the things I never understood, do you remember remember James when we last talked we had a discussion about the difference between the spirit and the soul actually we had just started on that when we arrived and I stopped Bob because I think it's a another problem that nobody seems to understand is what does Jesus mean when he talks of the Son of Man?
It's so important we understand that.
And I think Tolstoy did understand it, that it's a title of honour.
That Jesus does say he's the Son of Man, yes, but he says we can all become sons of men by acknowledging the life and the light that is permanently within us, that is effectively the Spirit.
All of us.
He tells the disciples that they are the sons of men.
And that's so confusing because what he means is you've actually acknowledged the divine within you.
This is...
This is the crux of so much now, I believe, but I don't I don't want to be a preacher and I'm not a preacher, but I just had a bit of But when he was talking about Son of Man, he meant as distinct from what?
As distinct from anormy, as you would call it, who, well, well, someone who might think that they're Christians, but who thinks that Christ is hypostatic.
static part of a trinity to whom you pray.
I don't think Christ ever told anybody to pray to him and I think he would have been rather appalled.
He wanted him to follow his teachings and he wanted to pray to God.
In fact he says the only prayer you need is our Father who art in heaven.
It's very interesting that because I've asked people about this before when you say your prayers, who are you?
Who are you?
Do you talk to Jesus or do you talk to God?
And I've been slightly corrupted, if that's the right word, but it isn't, by the Psalms which of course I know I'm very impressed predate Jesus and therefore I'm sort of inclined to direct my prayers to the kind of although Jesus is mentioned in the psalms obviously but the the Lord that it refers to is God isn't it?
I mean yes but now the leap the real leap and now you're going to say I'm satanic the real leap is that the God is utterly within you because God is all and God is nothing and God is everything.
And that is the intellectual leap you need to make to become a Son of Man.
And this is where you're going to worry, James.
Only a bit.
That's where it gets tricky.
But can I just conceive of this idea that there is in creating us and everything else, God imbued everything with a spark, a divine spark, a piece of himself.
And probably it's true to say there's a bit more of that in us.
Jesus knew it.
Jesus knew it.
You begin to think of it in the sense that God divided himself, whereas it's more that one piece is as good as the whole because God is it's infinite, it's not maybe because the Bible has been tampered with.
Jesus said, seek first.
I'm putting the emphasis on first.
Seek first the kingdom of God.
And then he says, the kingdom of God is within you.
Why did he say that?
Why is the first most important thing to seek the kingdom of God?
And then he tells you where it is.
It's with not talking about the apocalyptic kingdom of God, he's talking about you now alive today.
I must say I find myself very, very keen on the gospels and the psalms.
I'm not, you know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not in love with Leviticus.
I've heard that.
And I'm definitely not in love, and I know I get...
I get torn to bits by demons for this.
I'm not in love with the epistles.
Paul, he can't write.
He's just absolutely.
it's like it's really an ordeal, wading through those.
He's also a politician.
But I know that for some Christians, he's kind of next to Jesus as the thing.
And for me, Jesus is way better than Paul.
Well, of course.
Yeah.
I mean, I'd probably Paul would admit that.
Yeah, I know he would.
But sometimes I think there's this kind of I don't know.
But Paul is a politician.
And Paul, well, a lot of people say Paul was the actual inventor of Christianity.
Well, that's the vibe I get, yeah.
That he set it up because he wanted to control people just as Aaron wanted to control the Israelites and Moses.
And I think that that could be the case.
But he knew the truth.
Do you think he kind of hijacked it?
Who's the one you keep quoting when you say, the Prince of Darkness controls the Earth?
in John.
The epistle or the...
Yeah, in Epistle.
The Epistle.
They're fascinating, aren't they?
The Epistles.
The John's E epistles.
I haven't gotten around to reread them yet.
I've read them once last year.
I found them very interesting.
And how they connect to the evangel of John.
Right.
Do we think it's the same John?
Not sure.
But what I'm very interested in is this word.
In the beginning was the word.
And so then we have this argument about Hermes Trismegistus.
ancient, well, at the time of Shakespeare, they believed he was a contemporary Moses.
And Hermes Trismegistus has his portrait carved in marble in Siena Cathedral.
The Catholics accepted him in those days.
I'm talking about the late 15th century.
Of course, they would now repudiate him.
But at the beginning of the Hermetic Corpus, which is the most extraordinary document I've ever read, he says this vision appeared to him.
And it was the word, but he calls it poimandus, because he never heard of the word, but he it clearly is the word it's the intelligence the word of god and The word of God talks to him and he says, you want to understand God, you understand me and I will tell you, I am the word, I am the intelligence.
That this intelligence that human beings had does permit them to say, I am that I am.
That they are part of God, that God created this intelligence just in man.
And I can see you both thinking, oh yes, that's the arrogance of man.
Oh no, do you know what?
I'm not thinking that.
I'm thinking actually that it's quite scary recording this because I know that possibly it's going to be heard by people who are going to be much more, much less receptive, say, than they'll hate it.
Then maybe I am certainly.
And look, you asked me, you said some lovely things about my writing ability and it's a bit like when Bach wrote that the marginalia saying look this is all for God and it's God speaking through me and Bach yeah I want to come on to Bach and and when I'm when I'm having an off day writing I know that this is earthbound James doing it but
when I'm on a roll That's not me.
My rational brain is not capable of the kind of next level shit that I can do when I'm on a writing roll.
You know, I look at my stuff, I think, bloody hell, that's a good phrase.
You know, this is, and I don't try at all.
Yeah.
It's just there.
Well, that's got to be God speaking through me.
And I look at my life, I look at where I am now.
Clearly, I've been given some kind of mission.
100%.
It's a great privilege.
I'm not thinking...
That's what I have.
I will get ideas now that appear almost fully formed out of nowhere.
And quite often I'm not really sure what they mean.
But I'm getting to the point now where I don't worry.
I know that it must be important.
And it will, if I don't know what it means.
Now I will in a few days time or next week or something I will realize that it's important.
I'm learning how to trust that.
And when you have these things arrive, you just have to do them.
You have to just get them out on paper.
I'm 100% the same.
When I discovered where Shakespeare was buried, it was factual.
I discovered things that had been hidden there for 400 years.
So in one sense, that's not as creative as what you've done.
It bloody is.
But it felt extraordinarily creative.
And not only that, I felt, why me?
These solid facts...
indisputable facts have been sitting there for four hundred years why was it that I found them and it was though I'd, it really was as though I'd been guided towards them.
And I remember that sense with utter astonishment.
How did I get here?
I saw them and they came up in a flash.
My God, that has just been sitting there.
And how?
And the bits of writing, I mean, I've done some creative things.
But again, similarly, you don't know, but you know it's right.
There's something deep within one's corpus that understands truth.
Yes.
I think it's amazing.
I mean, absolutely.
you should never underrate what you achieved there.
In fact, I mentioned this to Tiffany before I came down.
I said, I'm really interested in what Alexander's got to say about stuff because he is the guy, the only guy, who worked out the secret that has been undiscovered for how many hundred years?
Right.
By all the scholars.
This is open to any scholar.
You know, Jonathan Bate could have done it.
Lol.
Wouldn't want to, would you?
Um, but he...
he really didn't for some reason but but i mean for for you to do it but you had to acquire the skills that have almost been lost of reading triangles and stuff.
But what came out of this, James, is this conversation we've just been having.
It came out with a much bigger truth because I realized that Shakespeare understood it too.
And that's when we were getting to our important point about this hidden fourth, but I'll come to that in a moment.
But Shakespeare himself, I mean, look at Hamlet.
What Hamlet says, O God, what does he say?
There's a wonderful quote from Hamlet.
O God, I would that I were in a nutshell and king of infantry.
of infinite space but for the fact that I have bad dreams now what is he saying there think hard he's talking to God for the start so he's not going to tell a lie oh god i would that i were in a nutshell i.e i am all i am everything i am one i am that i am but and king of infinite space in other words he's admitting that reality is one and
a total infinite of everything that's the mind deep you've got to make but that i have bad dreams what are bad dreams that's reality that's he keeps calling reality a shadow isn'tt it?
Life is but a walking shadow.
We all run away from our shadows.
We are living in a matrix.
Hamlet understands that one hundred percent, but to be able to understand that you have to understand that you have the spirit of God within you.
You're not saying that David Ike's right, eh?
No, because David Ike won't acknowledge God.
No, he won't.
He won't.
And that's his greatest mistake, so he'll never be a son of man.
He'll never follow Jesus.
And if he even were, he'd be enormous and he'd say that Jesus is part of a hypostatic godhead.
Right.
So basically what we're saying is that what 95% 98% of Christians have taken the narrow path and I'm sorry have taken the wide path which is what straight as the gate you know so even even though Christians are a tiny minority or minority the Christians who actually get it are even Because I think preaching has been wrong.
And I think Jesus, I'm certain, when you read Tolstoy's redaction of the Gospels, right down to what Jesus actually said, as opposed to what people say about him, probably a long time after his death, that Jesus would repudiate the idea that he needs to be prayed to in a special way, as a special God.
I think the word begotten has been added quite a lot of times in the Bible, in the only begotten son.
Yeah, Jesus.
Yes, I never understood the, I could never understand the only bit, the qualification of the only son, because I always thought, surely God could have a million sons.
We are all the sons.
Jesus, he could have had a billion Jesuses if he wanted.
It's designed to manipulate people into thinking, oh, I know somebody who only has one son, wouldn't it be terrible if they were killed?
It's that idea of the limitations of our human existence placed on God.
We only had one son.
No, he could have as many sons.
as he wants.
We are all the sons of God.
Yes, well, that's all.
And Jesus would acknowledge that.
But the great confusion comes when Jesus says you become a son of man by acknowledging the spirit and the light that is permanently within you and following the will of God, become the instrument of God.
When you do that, then you gain the eternal life.
That's the simple message.
And it comes out through Tolstoy's high intelligence when he redacts the Gospels to what Jesus actually said.
What about the idea that Jesus may not have been the only figure like that to come
along, although he was potentially the most recent, the one who came 2,000 years ago, but this idea that there may have been a cycle of Christ-like figures appearing at different periods of history when humanity was pretty close to destroying itself.
100%.
Who emerge.
now we get into another dangerous area that i think james would get worried about i mean i'm not sure about that is if we started bringing in the buddha and the krishna right and pythagoras and plato and to an extent Moses who were, Of course!
They were in touch with the Divine, and why shouldn't that be the same Divine who is the Creator?
But there's a nasty, there's a nasty exploiter of these people.
I do also believe we are in a shill world of danger.
But we've got to think profoundly about these people because I agree, I would put Jesus in with that group of people.
And the Chinese sages.
South America.
Yeah.
You're even supposed to look like Jesus.
The pale chap with all hair and beard.
I have a book here that would make everyone shudder called The Sixteen Crucified Saviors.
That looks into pre-Christ people who had very much the same ideas, who were also crucified, who were also saviors of mankind, whom Jesus seems to be a model for.
And the purpose of this book is to say Jesus is a sham, is a crap, he's a creation of political people who want to manipulate us.
But my view is that Jesus was telling profound truth that had also been recognised by prior.
Or the other layer, if time is to an extent an illusion that we're trapped in, which I think may be the case, then there was only ever one Christ.
But we're tricked into perceiving, we're on linear time.
That's the way we perceive existence.
If linear time is an illusion, then it may be that there was only ever one Christ, but we...
we are able to see these different figures appearing at different times in different cultures because that's how we're tricked into seeing history.
I mean, I get very confused thinking about it.
I do think there's something about time that's Well, that's a fascinating way of putting it.
And I don't know if you know, but I wrote a book on time, just called Time.
But Jesus himself says, live in the present.
That there is no future, it hasn't happened, forget it.
There is no past except in our memories or in books or in things that we can only understand through this present moment.
And the way to live is through the present.
Yes.
Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof, which is really good advice.
Where I wonder about that is he seems to be saying that there's no room for long-term planning.
I mean, if you're thinking, yeah.
Yes, you're absolutely correct that planning is the one objection that comes up.
We can only plan in the present.
We can't know if our plans are going to come right or wrong, but yes, you can say, If I don't eat, I will die.
So I will, in the future, need to go to a shop.
You're talking about something as basic as that, which is correct but Jesus says don't worry you would the three people for I'm talking about the invisible fourth in this room in a minute the the three people in this room all understand that there may be a major food shortage possibly it might not be well yeah yeah exactly but we also know that Jesus says sufficient that he says don't worry about it the birds everyone is supplied he does and and I I believe in that don't worry about it we're
gonna be fine and it's very hard for some people to get their heads around that well I'm kind of with you but I feel irresponsible for I feel a bit reckless For your children?
No, well, they're not here at the moment.
Yeah, I mean, they're doing what they're going to do.
But yeah, I do sort of believe it.
I mean, well, the only way it will happen is if you've got to totally believe it.
That's the problem.
Haven't you?
If you want to move them out of it.
No.
You've got to know it.
Know it.
There is this big difference between belief and know.
And as you're aware, I'll try to get onto it, but I really struggle.
I'm not going to be able to explain it, that I did have this kind of epiphany.
And you can say, well, I'm close to death and I'm on quite a lot of painkillers.
And there could be quite a lot of reasons why I had this epiphany that have got effle to do with the spiritual world that seemed to me to produce it.
But the epiphany was the difference between knowing and understanding.
What's that wonderful bit from the book of Job?
Where he says, Where is all understanding?
Where is knowing?
And he sorts it out that God is the one who knows.
We don't understand.
Understand can't be seen and it can't be bought really.
But knowing is knowing the truth and this jumps us right out of our intellect in some ways.
It's a visceral, a visceral sense.
I've read so many old monks and divines, people who have tried to put into words the sense of an epiphany which is a sense of light, a sense of deep warmth that comes within their bodies, a sense of truth.
It doesn't come across with words.
It simply doesn't come across.
You leave the other person saying, I'd rather like to have had that sense.
But I find thought you'd probably had it at some point.
Not like now.
I get little kind of mini, mini, mini things, but nothing like your extended.
Yours?
How long was yours?
Six and a half hours.
And so how can you time it so accurately?
Because Eliza said I went into some sort of trance just after breakfast and then she came in and I was in this sort of rapture of mad glowing bliss.
Did it feel like six and a half hours?
And then I then I was told the time and something strange has..
happened to me.
I've become very suspicious of time.
Very, very suspicious.
And about two or three months ago I started.
Again, this can be put down to medical reasons.
I wasn't having enough oxygen to my brain, and I started having odd delusions.
And each time the people I trust most in this world is dear Eliza, my wife.
And I started accusing her of lying, which I'd never have done in my whole life about time.
I said, What time is it?
She says twelve o'clock, I'd say you're lying.
I'd say bring me a clock.
She brought me a clock, I said you've manipulated it.
It was so strange, the strangest thing that's ever happened.
Then my son came along with his iPhone.
I said, look, he said, look, it really is 10 past 11.
I said, well, how did you manage to manipulate that?
But that was a, you know, that was some sort of withdrawal of oxygen from my brain.
Sure, but okay, so this was something very different.
But you've got no sense of time in a sense because you're in bed so much.
Yes, but I don't want to talk entirely about me.
I really want to talk to these guys.
You don't want to sit up a little bit?
Yes, I do want to sit up a little bit.
So I'm in a medibed for anyone who's interested in it you.
What is a muddy bed?
It's a bed that moves so you can start getting bed sores and you can sort of get yourself up and down a bit.
I don't know.
I'm actually paralyzed at the moment for my legs down.
Are you interested in that chicken or not?
Yes, I'll eat some of it.
It was very nice that chicken, by the way.
Have some more, have some more.
That pate is absolutely incredible.
I'm glad you got that is my best pate.
It is your best.
I've done one.
It's so nutritious to have a liver.
Actually, probably isn't it?
Yeah, liver's amazing.
I'm going to get a.
Go and get something more to eat.
is going to be worked.
Mind your head as well.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You're now also mimicking Paul Vickson's style.
Well, yes, I've forgotten that I'm not tied in anymore, of course.
Yeah, you can do that, but you can't use the spoon so well with it, can you?
I might spoon that onto this bit of bread.
I'll have that.
I thought because it's spelt it might be all right.
Should I get some more black bread?
A bit more of the patty, so good.
Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
No, I think we should.
I'm so glad I remembered to bring it.
There are always things that I...
Have some dishes.
is You're very generous.
No, not true.
I'm not generous.
You are very generous.
Generous with your.
time.
You're so busy.
I'm amazed how many things you get to.
Yeah, but I don't really.
I mean, I, as you anyway, time is limited.
When you set up all these meetings of which we've only managed to come to one, I'm rather glad I didn't go to the icon in the end.
Oh, I wouldn't have been able to make it.
It would have been disappointing.
It was upsetting, actually.
It was like I just very briefly because it's boring, but had I known what I know now, I would never have done it.
I wouldn't because it wasn't a pleasant experience, but I'm convinced that it was meant to happen.
for me to confront him on stage and for me to learn what I learned afterwards.
I think it had to happen.
I think it was important for your audience to go through as well.
That's true.
It forced them to ask a lot of questions of themselves and which way they felt they ought to go.
Yes.
But it seems to me the greatest divide in the Sharklings at the moment is not just Christianity.
I think the majority are Christian.
But the way that we look at Jesus.
And I haven't contributed to the threads on that because it gets very argumentative very quickly, except that some of the things I've been saying now will make people extremely argumentative.
But of course, my thing is Shakespeare, and it is quite interesting that Jesus says, Seek first the kingdom of God, the kingdom is within you.
And Edward de Vere writes this famous poem, My mind to me a kingdom is.
And in comes Trisbegistus saying, Your mind, I am the mind, I am essentially the word that is within you, the spirit of life and light.
So this goes back a very, very, very long time way and I think we strike it out at our own risk if we only want to start from Jesus in two thousand years ago.
Well, I mean, if you start with Jesus, it basically writes off all history before Jesus, doesn't it?
That would be the extreme take on that.
So the theologians that try and sort this problem out in the 16th century, they said Hermes Trismegistus might be the answer.
And you know, otherwise, did Moses go to hell?
Did Abraham go to hell?
So then the later theologians say, oh Oh no, Jesus went to hell.
If you remember, Jesus went down For three days, whatever it was, to fish out, fish out the goodness.
It gets into such a tangled story.
I always want to find out more about the detail of what exactly is supposed to have happened when Jesus went down into hell.
But I don't know what would be reliable.
Because it's a political fix.
That's why you don't want to know about it.
Jesus says, Before Abraham was, I am.
Do you remember this?
It's a really important thing that he says.
What he's saying is we all existed.
We all, all of us in this room existed.
before Abraham, before God, before time.
And we came in with the Word.
John in one of his epistles tells you what the Trinity is.
Does he?
What does he say?
He says it's God the Father, God the Word, and the Holy Spirit.
He doesn't say it's Jesus, he says it's the Word.
It's in the Bible, for heaven's sake.
If that doesn't mean that someone missed it and it was meant to be tampered with, I don't know what.
But it's right there, it's right at the beginning.
We were all there at the beginning.
Some people say the reason that what's meant by the word, why it's called the word, is that it's referring to this divine frequency.
It's in a sound or an energy that suddenly brings life to everything or animates things.
Creative.
It's the creative and the bit of understanding.
Which then needs to turn into knowledge.
I agree with that.
I agree it's energy.
Hermes would say it's cosmos.
It's the beginning of the movement of the stars and the planets that creates the energy.
But these are complicated things.
And I think the devil and the nasty people in this world are utterly pleased that we're confused by them.
That the three of us should be sitting here now with all this truth that's in the Bible struggling to define word, spirit, and soul.
And even these ancient sages seem to have slightly different takes on them.
So reincarnation, how does that manifest itself?
Do you come back in different bodies or are we living simultaneously in parallel in the spiral?
How does that manifest itself?
Do you come back in different bodies or are we living simultaneously in parallel, in the spiral?
I hope, James.
But when you heard I'd had an epiphany and had been pumped up with truth, I didn't necessarily...
know the answer to that very difficult question.
because I don't...
Not a useless epiphany you had, though.
What a useless epiphany.
It's a bit like...
When Colbridge was interrupting on his opium dream.
You're right about that.
This is something that made me think that David Icke was a fraud.
He said not very long ago, and I can't remember when, that a lot of people, when they have near-death experience, they see a light.
They see a bright light.
they very naturally go towards the light because we're told not least by Jesus I am the light of the world etc.
And that light is knowledge, and that knowledge is knowledge of God, therefore follow the light.
And Ike said, No, don't do that, it's a trick.
Go the other way, go down the narrow path into darkness.
Now what was that?
Sorry, it does tangently touch on reincarnation, but what do you think Ike was bloody doing when he said that?
I don't know, it doesn't sound like good advice to me.
No.
But then the idea is what he was saying is if you go down the light, you follow the light, which most people do.
You end up in the internal trap of reincarnation.
Yes, I've had that from several different people.
That reincarnation is a trap, a loop that you're essentially trapped in.
Whereas if you follow the darkness, you become the light within the darkness.
You become one of the stars who guides this world.
And again, you can find this idea in Shakespeare and in Edward de Vere that a man of virtue in the afterlife goes up and becomes a star.
This goes right back to Horace turning into Cygnus.
He says, I don't need a tomb.
I don't need to be commemorated as a great poet when I'm dead on earth.
I will turn into a swan and I will grow feathers and I will guide the earth and steer it.
And now we're back to this idea of guardian angels and parts of heaven which are looking after you and giving you your inspiration for your cartoons, Bob and giving the great inspiration to James for his amazing writings.
I mean, I prefer what Helen or James'sister said about reincarnation.
She said, I don't think God would be so mean as to only give us one go at this.
One chance to get it right.
Assuming we can perfect it.
It was such a tiny, you know, a tiny little blip of 80 or 90 years or whatever anyone gets.
She's with so much to learn, so many mistakes to potentially make.
And so late.
And also, especially if like children.
Mosley's previous incarnation you you're this child in India that dies oh yes aged five or whatever.
Legress.
Harmless.
That's not a fair deal, is it?
Does he want to come back as a...
But now you're on the biggest problem of all, which is the problem of good and evil, and I think we can resolve that.
Yeah.
Well, I think we can.
I don't.
I don't.
I think God understood.
Of course he understood.
He's everything.
He's all.
What is good?
What is perfection without the existence of some level of evil?
But I think I profoundly know.
I only know now I can say that there is a universal law that the badies in this world have realised they can tamper a little bit with free will and they're pushing that pendulum a bit too far but the pendulum will always correct and good will always prevail.
It can't because God created the world in his own image.
He wouldn't have created it any other way and therefore good has to be the prevailing point of the pendulum and it's just why we're free.
And that's why Hamlet knew that he was prince of infinite space.
Because it's all of us, all of us together.
We're controlling this.
And there's a force that is trying to let us forget it, block our brains.
Well, if we're not free, if we're not free, then good has no meaning.
Goodness can't have any meaning, if you're not.
Which I think the bad is...
the baddies have understood and that's what you know the whole point somebody made I can't remember who was saying it in 2021 or something you know other people have said it we demand freedom not because we want to be able to do whatever we like but we demand the freedom to be able to do what is right when the world is telling us not to that's the point about goodness and free will and then
you have the fact that evil clearly there is a purpose to evil existing and part Because God knows that God knows that we're going to win.
that's going to be the great example to us all.
It's on our shoulders.
But it's something we have to endure.
It's important for the human story.
That we must endure everything that evil can throw at us.
I mean that's what I increasingly feel now about all of this that's happening.
Part of me just wants them to bloody well get on with it because I think it's really important that we go through what they're going to try to do to us.
And only in coming out the other side can we even begin to build something new, which we absolutely need to.
Where we can't start to build anything new until people have gone through this and really get to the point where, well I mean James and I have further to go, but properly raise their consciousness levels enough to understand that the world we were in and the system that had been built that a lot of people still think can be fixed, it just went wrong or it was infiltrated or something, was always meant to allow for this to happen.
So we have to totally discard that and start anew.
But you can't until enough people understand that that's...
Because the baddies have understood that they can keep us all in control, essentially by keeping us free of pain.
Now you could say I've been in the last month experienced pain off this planet.
I've had as though there's been a bomb set in my throat that's gone off to blow my head off so my eyes come creaking right out.
And what has the modern political system done now?
It said, you know, we're going to look after you.
There's going to be a food shortage.
Don't worry.
We'll give you your food.
Don't worry about your mortgages.
We'll turn them all into digital currency.
Don't worry about any creature comfort.
And we utterly understand the human being who says I've got children, I've got a mortgage, I can't let them all down, I've got to do what anybody says to get this money coming in, we're going to be turned out of our houses.
These people aren't bad people, they're all good people.
But they're not listening to the message of Jesus, let alone Plato, and not enough of them are listening to Bob and to James.
So how essentially When we're being shut off, all through money, it's all economics, which is tied to politics.
And you, lot, you brave people.
that all people in this room have given up so much.
We all of us have decided to fuck our incomes for a while.
Well, for as long as we can, to tell the truth.
And it's spreading that.
That you're all doing at your utmost and you're all in this room, so maybe I've wasted your time.
You could be out there preaching to the millions.
We need some perks, you know.
We're out of downtime with our friends.
I'd love a cup of coffee.
I'd like to have a cigarette with my coffee.
Please do.
Within our chair.
No, no, have it in here.
Okay.
Fine.
Yeah.
Cancer patient privilege.
I used to be a smoker years ago.
Well, I mean, you smoked irrelevant.
In fact, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna ask you, do you think you got you got canceled by the enemy or do you think you just do Yes.
You do.
Yes, but then I sound like another tin foil hat.
No, no, no.
I mean, I It was my assumption that you had been canceled.
No, okay.
I, oh, I've definitely been canceled career wise, but I've been canceled, cancered, yes.
Absolutely.
Because they can do that, can't they?
They can give you a Oh.
I don't know if they did it by pressing the button, but I think evil forces came upon me.
Oh, I see.
You think supernatural level.
But then they were doing God's work because I believe I was made ill by stress.
Oh.
By someone who infiltrated the society, the charitable society I run.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
I remember you saying that.
And I had a great problem there and that still carries on.
But I'm ignoring it now because I'm living in the present.
And the present is blissful with you two guys.
Thank you for coming all the way to Summit.
I'm so glad that I was worried that you were not going to answer my I'm very bad at communication.
Yeah, well, so my, but I was thinking, well, because I've had two previous spirit guides, as it were, Christopher Booker and Jonathan Mars-Lee, both of whom popped their clogs before I could have the final, you know, round-out session that I wanted.
Booker had a long, long death from cancer, didn't he?
He did, he did, and he was very happy about it.
I mean, he was very happy to have had cancer because he said to his son that it was a way of wrapping up his affairs, you know, and making his peace with God.
It's a real shame then that Booker didn'tt live another five years because it would have been so interesting to talk to him about this stuff.
But then we've got you, so I suppose it's.
Yes.
I tried to find out my longevity.
They said with what I first had, which was a stage four prostate, I had 14 months to live.
And then they gave me another.
I'm not very good at math, I'm good at numbers in a strange way, but math.
Then they said, you have a 25% chance of lasting five years.
I don't know which is better, do you?
Anyway, they're both pretty crummy.
But it's.
Well, they're also totally meaningless.
Totally meaningless.
I agree.
So when my eyes popped out and I told you that, I really thought I was going to die that night.
With us, so how do you deal with such pain?
I tell you, since my diagnosis, which was a year ago now, so I've made it one year, I had two tumors pressing on the sciatic nerves running down my legs.
And I really thought there was no pain like it.
But this thing in the neck, honestly, it was way, way, way beyond.
way beyond anything you could imagine.
I really thought any second now, there's going to be a bomb that's going to go off.
off and that's going to mean my whole head is going to explode up and it went straight out my neck.
And that was if I swallowed, nested, anything.
So I was spitting out all this spum.
And my wife was very kind.
The doctor was on the phone, said, For God's sake, don't swallow the spum.
That will probably kill you.
So Eliza was literally just taking these buckets of spum off my What was in the what were the spum?
I don't know what it was, but it was all these bubbles and it was stopping me from breathing.
What brand of backee is that?
Oh, it's not, it's just got in Virginia.
Oh, yeah.
I've now got the stage where I can only smoke.
There might be something else in here.
because I was on the Pueblo Blue which I liked but it's so bloody dry it just dries out within a week but I will get some more maybe some in this house because the worst pain I've ever experienced was when I had my pulmonary embolism which is again you've got clots
pressing on the lung membrane which I think is probably quite sensitive and I
remember thinking all I want to do is curl up in a ball and be buried beneath the ground you want to die but I'm sure that in the great scheme of things you're a bullet ant bite whereas I'm just an ordinary red ant bite in the scale of things the National Health comes to me every day often it says can you describe your pain
to ten I said no I can't I can all I can say is this discomfort pain and acute agony it's much easier there's just three points but then this one I had on my neck it went way beyond that so maybe there's this hidden fourth which we're going to talk about are they any good with with with pain kills Are they giving you enough?
Yes, I'm not in pain now.
I'm in, I'm in discomfort.
I can feel my bones aching.
My bones are all my bones.
Just bone.
I've got cancer all over my bones and in my marrow.
So they're just uncomfortable.
I take a lot of painkillers.
Which I hope doesn't mean I talk rubbish.
No.
So, by the way, back to that snake, which lucky you haven't spotted yet.
I like snakes, you know?
I have this artist.
I have an artist, lovely, lovely artist friend who just died.
I spoke at his memorial and he left it to me along with those two Tudor doves up there which are carved.
So they literally just arrived in the house last week.
So I thought James is going to walk into this house, see the snake, see the lumps on my forehead and possibly smell the sulphur of my pea which I've actually been able to do in bottles in my bed.
And then I told him that the ruddy nurse, the palliative nurse had come here and said if you keep taking urafen you'll have blood shooting out of your eyes these are all the three things you'd put in your first paragraph of your bit on brilliant piece on firearms so weird maybe i prefigured it you probably remember who it was you said um there are more things in heaven and earth relationship than i dreamt of in your philosophy but um but perhaps you could you can remember it's shakespeare but but it seems to me that
it's hamlet don't know i'm joking no no um this she emailed me about this i keep saying that tell you about that.
Christianity is the biggest rabbit hole.
And it seems to me that there are some who take the trust to plan view.
And they, you know, the Catholics, they'll know what to do.
Infiltrated.
They're Catholics, you know.
Bishop Williamson, who I did a podcast with the other day, absolutely rock solidly sure that only the Catholics are going to get to heaven, you know, everyone else, you know.
Bach is moot because he was a proddy.
Well, wait about Bach.
Yeah, but I was saying that Shakespeare was a prodding.
It's very hard for people like us with our inquiring minds and our scepticism to just go, oh right, okay, so there's the Trinity, this is the deal, no one comes to the Father except through me.
But all the things that you're told that you have to believe, otherwise you're not a proper Christian.
And I'm going like, okay, why should I take all this I won't accept any other other expert tells me on any other field.
No, but they deliberately misunderstand Jesus when he says nobody comes to the father except through me.
He says nobody comes to the father except through understanding my teachings and they change it because they want him to be part of the godhead.
It's very difficult, it's complicated by the fact that unless we have Greek and I mean presumably the Septuagint is kosher, isn't it?
We can trust that.
No.
No, we can't.
Well, look, everybody...
They have so much power.
How can you say that no one's just say someone just taps the translator's shoulder and says, each time Jesus says, I'm the Son of God, just put the only begotten.
Let's just add those two words.
This is a fascinating thing.
I keep thinking about how everything that's happened for the last few years has brought me back to believing in God, or rather, as you were saying a minute ago, knowing that God is real and knowing that evil exists.
and knowing that he wants me to do something with the gifts he's given me.
I know that.
Beyond that, that's wonderful.
I don't really know.
But that's wonderful, Bob.
That's great.
But then at the same time, and you look at, like James just said, you look at all these other things and you think, can we really know that?
Do I know that or am I just trying to believe in it?
Because there is a big difference.
But we have witnessed in real time how reality can be totally rewritten as it's happening every day.
I've just watched it happening and the tiny phrases they tweak, the words they insert here and there that you know will give a totally false impression to future generations of what has happened here now.
Yes.
And that does make you.
look at all the different books in the Bible and think it's just not possible that this hasn't been tampered with and manipulated over time by various people with various agendas.
It's not.
And it's not to say that the truth and there is certainly divine truth in there and because it's divine truth, it's survived, they can't get rid of it, but it is peppered with nonsense.
Absolutely correct.
Look, what you're saying is totally, totally right and totally true, but I think there's a solution to it.
And that's we need the anchor the anchor that doesn't change and that anchor is truth maybe an upside down tea but it's truth and the truth is within you honestly it is it is the salvation and this is what jesus was really saying when you scrape away anything that could be dampered yeah it's the anchor which comes to the fourth tea which I might try to explain,
maybe it's too much.
But it connects Shakespeare with God and it connects us with...
And it connects us with Bach, who knew about it too.
And I'm afraid it connects us with these ruddy Freemasons, but they are the Proto-Freemasons.
Now, the Masons have a symbol, and this is where I got my boots stuck in the mud here, vis-à-vis Shakespeare and Masonic thought.
They have a symbol which is called the triple tau.
To imagine it, it's a T. which stands tau, you obviously know it's the Greek T, but it's the same letter, it's the 19th letter of the alphabet, just as it is for the Roman alphabet.
So it's a sign which is a T at the top and spurring out of the bottom of the T are two more Ts.
One on each side, one on the left and one on the right.
And Christians might say that represents the crucifixion because in the medieval times the crucifixion was always depicted as a capital T rather than a lowercase T. It was a capital.
And so you have Jesus in the center and the two robbers on the either side.
That would be a Christian interpretation of the triple tau.
It's always called the triple tau because it consists of three Ts.
Now if you really stretch your imagination here and think very hard about it, it actually has 40s because the stem of the center T has the bar that connects the two Ts on either side.
So therefore you've got an upside down T that is hidden within that symbol.
Okay?
Now I'm going to tell you something that John D. wrote.
John D. was the magician, the mathematician.
often treated as a baddy because he talked to St. Michael and St. Gabriel.
We have all his notes on it.
Very occasionally demons came into these talks and he repudiated them and ran at them with spears.
So, okay, he's a dodgy figure in the Elizabethan court.
Queen Elizabeth and Lord Burley loved him and believed in him and listened to his prophecies.
Others said he was a baddy, etc., etc.
Anyway, in early 1564 he wrote a book called Monas Hieroglyphica.
In 1564, you mustn't take this away.
In 1564 he published a book called Monas Hieroglyphica and in that book he wrorote, The quaternary is concealed within the ternary.
O God, that I have written something that all may read, but only the truly worthy will understand.
Now I don't think anybody's understood that until now.
I've never seen any commentary on John D. that says, what does he mean?
A, when he speaks directly to God, saying that the quaternary is concealed within the ternary.
And B, O God, I have done a really bad thing by putting this in print where anyone can read it, and then saying, but only the truly worthy will understand now I found among the truly worthy who have understood this Leonardo da Vinci who I would say is truly worthy now I know you keep coming out James saying oh maybe Jane Austen is a shill maybe you well I
don't think they are these are all pre these are decent people Shakespeare Leibniz Yes, and Johann Sebastian Bach.
Johann Sebastian Bach, in his very last work on his deathbed, wrote a piece called The Art of Fugue and the fugue is a very mystical, very technical piece of musical writing.
I don't know if you know what it is, but you start off with a totally solo tune and then another instrument comes in and repeats the tune a fifth higher, while the other instrument does an accompaniment to it, then a third and then sometimes a fourth.
And Bach decided that on his deathbed he wanted to write a piece that maybe nobody would ever hear.
They would only study.
He didn't say what instruments could play it.
There are no instruments could play it.
If you try and play it on a string quartet, the violist has notes that are four notes too low for it to play.
You can't play it on a keyboard.
So nobody knows who it's written for, but it was the most extraordinary and great piece of work.
And in it, he hid his own name upside down in a fourth hidden fugue, as if to say, I am that I am.
He was that fourth part.
What is being said here, I hope it is following, because it is a little bit complicated, is that there is this Trinity, there is this Godhead, but we are the hidden part within that Godhead.
And we have to stop.
We really have to stop.
Your Sharklings, for starters, who are all good people, many of them.
I know you've got 77th Brigade in there.
But we've got to stop the muddling, the huge destruction that has come into this system by everybody shouting and yelling gnostic at each other that they're evil and yelling that all these people forgetting the history of this thing, that they've been corrupted, the modern ones.
There's a lot of corruption in it, and yes, I agree with that.
But the original stuff has been stifled.
And the original stuff is pure good and it's getting close to God.
That's where I've got to, and that's partly where my epiphany led me and you can say i was tricked by the devil if you want but no i don't think oh no we've got to find an ashtray yes there are some copper ashtrays next door that look like the glastonbury bowl that was dug up you might see them there's a silver one too it's very it's very difficult to wrestle with this idea i think it's absolutely true that The
ego is one of our greatest enemies.
Mastery of the ego is key to most people.
I hate to interrupt you Bob because you are very very profound and I want to give you your wind.
But I have to say, I just have to, that this doesn't tie in with master of ego.
Yes, of course, isn't it nice to be thought we've got God in us?
But it goes hand in hand with understanding you have to serve the will of God if you accept this.
Yes.
So in other words, you're completely humbled by it.
Yes.
Carry on.
Yes.
Well, that's more or less where I was going with it.
Sorry.
To master the ego and retain some sense of humility under God, under the idea of god that There is a there has to be a level which is beyond our reach and when you think about it that was the the whole problem from the very beginning why did the evil when did evil start if you like when Lucifer decides he's going to try
and usurp God because I can have that position too no you can't oh these are the last of them what happens next Adam and Eve is the same thing, you know, reaching for the apple just symbolises again man reaching for something that is beyond his reach or woman and passing it to man but it's that same idea that you you must accept that there is something beyond you and
be okay with that so have that degree of humility but at the same time I feel it's possible for somebody to be too humble I mean imagine a world where everyone was completely humble very few people would attempt to do anything as in we all need some ego don't we correct it's not about eradicating ego completely.
If I didn't have any ego, I'm not sure I would ever have drawn a single picture.
Well, that's correct.
There's an element of that.
It's the same with James's writing.
Anyone who creates anything, you must have some bit of ego there.
But that's why you're in the position of St. Paul, who says, I laboured.
I laboured more than they all, but it was the grace of God within me.
I am that I am.
You are accepting that your work guided by God and therefore by the will of God and therefore it
is of course it's you as well I think there must be some types of people who might be creators who say it's absolutely nothing to do with God, God doesn't exist it's just me I'm just a genius and they're going on the wrong path there is a yeah there is a strain isn't there quite a strong strain in Christianity which which is against the intellect because it's it's a kind of the serpent with his subtlety and his and
his you know it's you're trying to sort of buy that way of thinking, you're trying to kind of compete with God.
But actually, obviously, as an intellect, I don't quite like that.
It can't be totally true because we know that, well, Shakespeare's great, isn't he?
And Jesus says it is no robbery to make yourself an equal with God.
Where does he say that?
Well, you're not going to approve now because he's in Philippians.
So how does he, who was quoting it, why did it not get into the gospels?
Because they don't want you to know it.
Oh, I see.
Why did Giordano Bruno get burnt at the stake?
Why did John D. Did John Dee say, Oh, I've got to keep quiet about this fourth element within the Trinity, which is the material world, which is our brains, which is our logos, our word, our mind, because he would have gotten in terrible trouble at that time.
But that's because the church wants control.
It doesn't want you going around saying, Well, actually, I'm a free spirit.
I could have.
I could be prince of infinite space and live in a nutshell, were it not for my bad dreams, my bad dreams being reality.
And how does Gildenstern respond to that?
He says ambition.
is the bad dreams, they are the shadow, we're living in a false shadow.
Shakespeare understands this so well, and come on, he's one of the greatest brains that ever was.
And we're being told not to listen to Shakespeare, don't listen to Tolstoy, don't listen to Jesus properly.
I shouldn't say I prefer nothing.
I was talking to Tiffany the other day about, is the reason we love Tolstoy and Dostoevsky so much?
Is it partly because of the whole Russian element to it, the serfs and the retreats onto the estates and stuff.
But actually, even if they set the, even if they set the, even if they were writing their book set in England, they would still be the greatest writers, the greatest novelists that ever lived.
Because I read Tolstoy, I read Anna Karenna, and it is so far ahead of any other novel ever written.
Now, don't tell me that that was just Tolstoy who wrote that.
That was, it's godlike.
100%.
Yeah.
100%.
But Tolstoy would agree that.
It's possible that that's what it's meant by seeing yourself as equal with God in the sense that opening the channel so that you can be in conversation with God, you are worthy of that and you are able to be a conduit for his ideas and his messages.
I think we have to be careful of any sense blowing ourselves upwards.
What it means is that we are part of everything.
and everything is God.
For it is quite impossible for God to create everything and not be a part of it.
one string.
I've often said about our ancestors, you know, I remember my father said some odd things.
He once startled me by saying, those who don't ever think of their ancestors are evil.
And he was addressing this particularly to Americans, you know, Americans who had very obvious Italian surnames and had no idea that their origins were Italian even.
But he believed that...
We're much more than that.
We are all part of everything.
Every single thing connects because it is all one.
And it is infinite.
This is the jump we have to make.
It's an intellectual jump.
I agree it's difficult.
And James brought up a common but sensible objection.
How do we plan for tomorrow if we're all infinite and we're all just one thing?
But once you get it, you get it.
And that knowledge is visceral.
So all those people who are long-term Christians who talk about we can manifest.
victory against the dark forces they're on to something actually 100 i think try and look at it as though we are a cell or a part of a human body that we are one person but within us we have all these cells that move to protect these antibodies these things you know if something bad comes in some sort of germ then in moves a little army But the whole of the cosmos,
the whole of existence, which consists of infinite billions of particles, let's say, some of which are constructed as human beings on Earth, some of which we can never understand are there to whizz around and protect it and that all that everything that infinite is god and and we are like it or not a part of that and if we think hard with our energies and we think good things and kind things and look after people and care for people do what is virtuous
that spreads all around the universe because everything is in touch with it and the pendulum swings back by natural law.
When you think about that idea of preparing for tomorrow, what all of that ultimately comes down to is fear of death of physical death and when you think about it every single thing they're doing all of this agenda is about trying to make people afraid of death but crucially not fear spiritual death which they're inflicting on everybody which is the only thing anyone should fear so
wise absolutely you've got to be in my position to understand the highly amusing situation with the national health and all these sort of people I mean, they come in and talk about nothing but pain.
So what's your feeling on what happens next?
Personally, where are you going to go?
Well, I'm going to die, Obviously sooner than you.
I don't know when.
It literally could be tomorrow.
I might die in a week, might live a year.
I'd be a little bit surprised if that happens.
Things crash upon me very, very suddenly.
You know, sudden, sudden pain.
But I'm still being talked to.
What are these ruddy horns on my head?
They're telling me something.
So when, as I said to you a moment ago, I was worried that one of my great friends said, you know, you should be worried.
They're telling you that Shakespeare's...
But so that same friend said to me when these horns started growing in my head, he said, oh, you're turning into Bielzebub.
They're telling you, they're telling you to stop reverse gear fast.
And then one of my daughters looked at me, she said, that's not Bielzebub at all.
She said, that's the god Pan.
Interestingly enough, G.K. Chesterton, who's, you know, this rather staunch Catholic, very Christian writer.
said that Jesus only really properly emerged after the death of Pan.
That Pan was a goody, for God's sake.
The idea of horns growing on.
Bielsey Bob said it was a 19th century construction anyway.
Anyway there's an argument whether Pan even had horns.
But the Pan loved nature, which I do.
I wanted to die out here in the sticks in Somerset.
I've always wanted to live in Somerset.
The Pan loved music, invented the panpipes.
I read music at university and loved music more than anything else.
But interestingly enough, Eliza said my feet were growing into clover music.
She started massaging my feet.
She said, it was swelling up like an old age person.
And of course, my paralysis is down from my hips, which is where Pan had goat's legs.
And I was bored of Capricorn.
And I love nothing more than the French cheese crottin.
So I rather went along with the fact that someone is trying to tell me that I'm Pan.
Now, if you look at the first folio of Shakespeare, there are two extremely interesting.
There's a headpiece, which is an illustrated, lovely illustrated strip above.
the sort of contents page and on either side are two tipped up figures which are mythological figures which belong to the arms of Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford, nowhere else.
But right in the centre is a figure of Pan.
So again, I think it all ties in with my Shakespeare obsession.
But look, I'm blabbling, but all I can say is, again, one just can't help feeling there's some sort of messaging going on with this and what it means.
But I'll work it out.
And I'm absolutely certain that I can feel in my heart that I'm not turning into the devil.
So please don't.
No, no, no.
It's just peculiar.
It was far from my thoughts, I have to say.
But I'm curious.
Do you think there is an afterlife?
What's your eternal life.
Of course.
You can't die.
But it's eternal life of the real life.
This is the light of life that is within us that Jesus is constantly banging on about.
And we're not listening to him properly.
Until you see how Tolstoy strips it back and explains it and shows you how it comes straight out of Jesus' mouth.
Not once, not twice, over and over again.
And we're not listening.
That's why the Tolstoy book's important.
That's why Wittgenstein wouldn't let go of it.
It's for all people, for all men.
Acknowledge his teachings and you know you can't die.
You can't die.
Your spirit is an immortal spirit that was there before time.
It was with the word.
And it's in you.
And it is partly intellectual because it needs an acknowledgement and an intellectual acknowledgement, but it is partly visceral and instinctive because you have to jump that gap.
Have you ever read The Divine Adventure by...
Fiona McCloyd, but that wasn't it.
It was a chap called William something.
No.
I've heard of it, yes.
It's a beautiful book.
Tell us a bit.
It's, um, I've got it in the car actually.
It's about three figures.
It's a story of three figures that represent the body, the will and the spirit and they decide to go off on this journey.
I think they're living in a cottage by the coast or something that's metaphorical and they decide to go out into the world on this journey and it's about the differences between the three figures and how they interact.
I'd love to read that.
It's really interesting.
It's a bit confusing at times as to whether it leans more towards it's not really Christian it's not quite pagan but it's just exploring this idea with those three elements of what make a human being.
It's very comforting.
Please could you say the title again and say it quite loudly and I'd absolutely love to read it.
The Divine Adventure.
I've got it I can get it in the car.
Really?
Will you lend it to me?
I would really love it.
By the sounds of that, it's absolutely right exactly what I'm interested in.
We're going to get it.
But we were all a bit worried, aren't we, James, that all of us with all your Sharklings whom I love, we all get to a position sometimes where we look for people who will confirm the platform we've now got ourselves onto, rather than reverse us a little bit and reculé pour mieux sauter, as the French would say.
Yeah, I consider it, I'm on a journey.
I'm not, I know.
I'm up for anything.
You really am?
Well, I kind of am too.
except then I feel quite recently I found a platform and I feel very safe on there.
But it will meet with very grave objections from other Christians particularly who found their platform and decided, well, I'm wrong and I've misinterpreted some of the Bible and the Scripture.
But there surely is only one truth.
Well, there has to be.
There has to be one, doesn't there?
Yeah, that's the thing.
I think that the truth has to be one's watchword.
It does.
It has to be.
And Jesus puts it in the centre.
I am the way, I am the truth.
I am the eternal life or the life.
In other words, you have the journey, you find the truth, once you found the truth, you cannot die.
You've got it, and the centre is very important.
Did you know this?
And I know you don't like Cabalism and you don't like numbers and you don't like letters.
But here is quite an interesting thing that in Hebrew, which is considered a sacred language, i.
e.
the letters were invented by God, not by man.
The word for truth is emet, and it consists of three vowels.
And the first one is the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet, the second one is the middle one, and the third one is the last.
So it rather has that similar thing of Jesus saying, I am the way, I am the truth in the centre, I am the eternal life.
And you will remember, James, because I once showed you how you open up the dedication.
to Shakespeare's sonnets and you put it in a graph in a column 19 letters and you get exactly that you get the truth I am the way at the beginning, the truth right in the centre, and the eternal life at the end.
These people knew it, and Bach knew it, and Bach knew that there was this fourth component that is the material world and that is particularly ours, and it's the mind, which is the word that is within us, was in us from creation and before creation and before time.
So you and I knew each other before we were born.
I did rather feel that when, you know.
We did.
Well, we did, yeah.
And so did, you know, if you're very lucky and you have a wonderful marriage this is called a soulmate if you're really lucky you find you find your soulmate who was your soulmate from the beginning it all sounds potty but once you know it you know it yeah That kind of truth exists viscerally.
I keep saying viscerally.
I'm trying to use a word that means by inspiration, that means wordless, that we're unable to put into words.
Can I just do one thing quickly?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Vatican power, if I'm correct, spreads far greater than just influence over Catholic believers around the world that there's a huge cash thing going on.
Now I heard something, it's got to be Tosh, hasn't it?
That the Vatican owns all of our birth certificates or something.
Oh, the whole birth certificate thing is jolly interesting.
The problem is that we haven't got the, we haven't got the, we're never going to get to the bottom of this.
Well, do they or do they not own our birth certificates?
Oh, there's no doubt that, no.
When your name is in capitals, it's not you, it's a standing thing, yeah.
Yeah, it's a standing thing.
And yes, they that our birth certificates are bought and sold on on some exchange.
On Wall Street and on the Yeah, well, well, I'll hang on, hang on, hang on.
Oh, that's true.
A fact.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's that's that's that's an undeniable fact.
Oh, undeniable, oh, just absolutely So you and I could go and buy some of these shares?
No, no, we can't.
Why not?
Because they're publicly quoted.
It's not how it works.
But we know of their existence.
Apparently the people trading these things don't understand that they represent human beings.
They don't know that's what they're trading.
Everyone apparently has given a financial value, if you like, as soon as we register it.
And that is then traded.
Now I have heard, and I think you know a bit about this, Bob, that you can write to HMRC and say, I demand a checkbook in my name.
And that people around here, I'm currently in the West Country, have been given tax demands and asked to pay their, you know, their cancel tax yeah and have written out checks on these checkbooks that have been sent them by hmrc that represent money that we didn't know we owned or existed but are part of this trading system yes and they will be accepted by the taxman have you heard this james
i like what i hear well bob probably knows a tiny bit more than i do i think we've got this checkbook and i think heron's got it have you used it yet I think we have used it.
Well, hello, Bob.
Tell me about it.
But it's arrived through the post office.
I don't know that much about it.
We got it.
You pay 50 quid or something in there and you get the checkbook..
You buy the checkbook for 50 quid for the HMRC and then you can pay off your tax using that checkbook.
You can only pay certain things with it, but any kind of taxes it works for, apparently.
But they don't want you to know about it.
They don't want you to know about it.
Now you know someone who's used it, yeah?
Yeah, I know a couple of people.
Rudy's been doing it for a long time.
So I've paid my tax bills with it.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah, but it's one of those things that you've...
People have done it.
But I think Eliza has asked for it, has applied for it.
Right.
But it hasn't arrived.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, you see, there we are.
There's another thing that we need to do.
So much, yeah.
This is...
Yeah.
Do you see what a scam?
They even know it's a scam.
Our knowledge is...
You see, the thing that I was going to put to you my problem problem with the with the with the sort of the the gnostic thing your first problem is definition and and i can't let you go on unless you define what you say the Gnostic thing was.
Well, of course, of course, I agree.
But going with the caricature version of Gnosticism for a moment, the problem with it is that all the people, sort of top level people involved with this thing, seem to be about secrecy.
Correct.
And I don't think secrecy is a good thing.
I agree.
100%.
So it's a tell.
Sometimes you just go with your gut feeling and you think, well...
But here am I rather confessing to having slightly Gnostic leanings, and I'm not being secretive at all.
Because as I said, I believe that the Gnostics, when they started off, were under serious persecution.
Giordano Bruno is burnt at the stake for having ideas like this.
So they did have some reasons.
I agree you can be pure and say fuck that, be burnt at the stake.
Well, he was for his beliefs.
But other people are too frightened.
We have no excuse.
in this present day and age to be secretive about anything like that.
If Gnosticism, however we're defining it in its particulars, but if it is the truth or it goes towards the truth, there is absolutely no reason to be secret about it unless you're shit and you think, oh, I can use this knowledge to my own benefit and against other people, which is, I believe, what's happening at the top end.
That's where we're at.
That's the problem.
Not that Gnosticism is evil.
But if selfish people say, oh, I have this power within me, I can do this, I can control everybody else, that's where it goes wrong.
I think that's something that people need to accept, and a lot of people still don't, is that whoever, regardless of whether it's the Grey Pope or somebody else, whatever the group of people are at the top who've planned all of this and mean to see it through they have a lot of the answers that we're sitting here speculating about and scratching our heads about they know an awful lot about except i think we know the answers too and i think hamlet knew the answer i think they've got some thing crucial
things wrong as in yes a big one being that they win yeah yeah but the big one is that they win on this earth with their own creature comforts that's where they got it wrong yeah it's about the eternal life and it's about serving the will of god which is fundamentally 100 fundamentally good despite the evil in the world it's a brain teaser but we can get around it but you didn't really answer my question maybe because
it's such a sort of craft question go for it I'll try do we is there a heaven do we do we go somewhere cooler than this well there's everything which is eternal which is bliss eternal comfort and joy If that's not heaven, what is?
Yes, of course there's fox hunting.
Anything you like.
Of course there's fo everything.
And that's why there's some evil.
There's no sea, apparently.
There was.
There's no sea.
No sea.
There's a passage in Revelation, I think, which says that there's going to be no sea.
It says something that says that.
It says there's no sea in heaven or there will be no sea here.
Yeah, when it all gets better.
Revelation is the hardest for me.
So I told you, didn't I, that I once wrote a book just called God.
Yes.
And who should knock on the door but a set of Jehovah's Witnesses?
And most people say, oh, please go away, you're such bores, and you don't know anything about anything except the book of Revelation.
You don't seem to understand them.
But I was writing this book on God, so I said, do come in, I'd love to talk to you.
And I sat and talked and talked.
They were desperate to get away from me.
These people have had the door slammed in their faces a million times.
I wouldn't let them go.
It was quite funny.
The last thing they want is an actual theological conversation.
Well, I'd just read the whole Bible through a couple of times, and I was pretty big on it, I understood.
I've got to tell you, I've got these evangelical phrases.
friends who are, they're unsound on some stuff, but there's some stuff that they're very in tune with the world, they communicate with God and they get all the kind of things that one rather envies, These messages.
Anyway, so this is one I got from...
Okay, listen to this.
Where is it?
Are you on Hump Talk?
Yeah.
What do you reckon about tele...
And this is one of their number, Stefan.
He says, someone he knows was in Toronto.
He felt God tell him to go to the airport.
Then he heard God say, go to Johannesburg.
He had no money.
God said, go to the toilet and wait there.
I'm sure God wouldn't use a word like toilet, would he?
God said, go to the toilet and wait there until I tell you to leave.
So he did.
About two hours later, God said, you can go now.
He walked out of the door and he was in Johannesburg.
Wow.
Well, I have only a few things to say on that.
A very interesting character called Rudolf Sheldrake.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Morphic Resonance.
I've got to get him on the pod.
He's a very interesting man, actually.
And he has ideas about sight.
You know, I'm looking at you, James, now.
So what's actually happening?
Is light reflecting off you as we would be, I think, traditionally taught, firing back into through my eyes, somehow registering inside my brain and storing itself there as an image or creating itself as an image inside my brain is that what's happening or is there something else rather more mystical happening are you actually travelling towards me and I towards you and there's a different type of
meeting going on altogether Sheldrake's written about this and done some very interesting talks and I've questioned him on it and he comes up with very interesting answers and I think we all have to be skeptical about both time and place.
I think that again back to this amazing passage in Job where where do we find understanding?
We can't see it, we can't see God, God can measure the waters.
Now I think what is meant by that is it's impossible to measure waters but God can do it.
God can see the ends of the earth, there's no price we can pay for it.
So I think God of which we are part does understand even your friend who teleported himself to the lavatory or the toilet as you put it in Johannesburg.
Is that the same as saying nothing's impossible?
I don't think it is.
But I think we need to listen to these people.
But then you don't have time.
You, James, listen to more of these people than anyone else on this world with great patience.
I do.
And you know, it's jolly unfair on my, on my, I think one of the reasons I get impatient with the Sharklings.
is that they don't spend all their time listening to as much as I do.
And so they're always going to be behind because they haven't done their homework.
And I get kind of impatient because I'm...
But you admit to yourself and to others that you're not a details man, that you look at the overall picture.
And that's a very, very necessary type of intelligence.
There's no scorning it.
We need people like you.
Though you'd be horrified to know, of course, Boris Johnson is similar too.
And thank God there are other people who look at details.
It takes all type of man to understand as much as we possibly can.
And we are a shared part of the great intelligence, the universal intelligence that is God.
But yes, we need people like you who can actually bring people together and admit that you look at the overall but you're so bright that your looking at the overall is i believe very very helpful it would be very dangerous wouldn't i if i if i could do the big picture and the um yeah imagine yes i don't think then they really would take you yeah yeah they would they would i mean they'd have to they'd absolutely have to yeah well i think that the details man is more vulnerable
to attack because you can plant false detail.
Oh, that's true.
Yes, I think that's true.
more easily, I think.
It's the hedgehog and the...
No, no, no, no.
The hedgehog knows one big thing, and the other thing knows one...
It's that Esop or something?
No, it's not.
more recent than that.
Hedgehog and the...
It was one of the...
The hedgehog knows one big thing and the other animal knows lots of little things.
And I'm there.
And they can't reconcile.
Well, I think they're just different personality, different mental constructs.
I mean, the thing I always say.
is the things that make me shit are the things that make me good.
The fact that I'm impatient and sketchy is also what means I can just go blum like that.
But it's also an awareness of what's wrong.
And I remember saying to you some time ago, very hard to discern the truth and very easy to discern falsehood.
The shit is the false that you get rid of.
I remember when Boris Johnson came up with this three-word thing he thought was so clever about Brexit.
Get Brexit done.
Do you remember?
I was pro-Brexit.
And I was horrified by that staying.
I said it sounded like he just wants to have a shit.
Yeah.
It turns out he did.
Yeah, he did.
On all of us.
Silly brute.
I mean, oh dear, oh dear.
But I think we were talking when you were out about love.
And the importance of love.
Something that, as British men, men We all got a bit queer and didn't want, you know, we can't talk about love.
We're British offers are not.
rubbish.
Love is this form of truth.
And in Bob's cartoons, I was saying how much I admire the sentimental aspect as well as the very vicious, cruel aspect, because underlying Bob's cartoons is love of all humanity.
And I think we really, really cleanse ourselves when we realise that we are all part of God and therefore we love even Boris Johnson, Kias Darmer, even that we can see that can complete puppets and they're going to destroy and try to make so much bad things happen.
That duality is interesting.
I mean, I don't think my brutal cartoons full of Michelle Obama's cocks and ball bags and things would carry the same weight if I didn't also have those very heartfelt sentimental cartoons about love and vice versa.
The stuff about love might seem gooey and naff if I weren't also doing these brutally satirical things alongside.
But if I'm allowed to interpret your cartoons even against your own vision of them, I would say that your drawings of Michelle Obama's cock and balls is done out of love.
Well, because it's the truth.
Wouldn't she be much happier if she just showed us our cock and balls?
Well, we don't need to see them.
Just say I've got a cock and balls and yes, I'm a transgender.
You can see it swinging around when she wears a particular cock and balls.
We know it's true.
So her unhappiness, which I'm sure she must have, is living a lie.
When you did your thing with Dick the other day and you...
Yeah, well Taylor Scripps is a lot more careful about tying up his giblets than he is indeed.
But there's a tell.
He wears very high-waisted knickers, which of course have become a sort of fashion thing.
not apparently the the the stuff that the high level tran is used to tip to there's this the
There's the kind of League of Gentlemen type one, who are obviously blokes and then it goes all the way up to the the next level so the the penultimate tier would be um people that you are aware are transgender
but yeah but but pass very convincingly as a woman even though you know they're transgender and the final stage is the one that are absolutely they pretend to be the thing so for example a lot of quite well quite a few holland Hollywood female stars are male.
Sometimes the clues in the name, often the clues in the name, Sandra Bullock.
Yes.
Tina Turner.
Yes.
Turner.
Hello.
Brilliant.
Brilliant.
Tina Turner is a man.
Cher is a man, which sort of puts a new complexion on their sunny.
In English to share.
Share sex.
Yeah, I wonder, oh, I don't know, I don't know what the, what the, what the, she's supposed to be Armenian, isn't she?
Cher in French and dear.
Cher, yeah.
There's also a community cherub, but who's transgen hard to fathom that one.
And apparently this surprised me.
The Supremes.
The Supremes.
Right.
Now, the end goal in this is surely to get people worshipping the Baphomet.
But the Baphomet is a slightly 19th century construction by Satanists.
Is he?
I think I'm correct on that.
Are you still being recorded?
It can't have another power in it.
Oh, probably I'm running out.
So this is the idea, we worship the Baphomet, but that requires at some point a big reveal, don't you think?
Yes, I think that's part of it.
When they all come out and say, oh, we've all been a man all along.
And then, yes.
Surely, they can't carry on with the secret, there's no point.
Or are they just laughing at us?
Bob has been laughing in our tablet as well.
Have you heard of this book, The Infernal Dictionary?
Yes.
I've recently got this because I've spent ages looking for a good English translation, good quality.
What is it?
You've actually got a copy.
It's originally French.
Oh, well.
This is a sort of deluxe edition.
Oh, fascinating.
And it's an A to Z. I kept seeing these wonderful etchings or woodcuts.
Yes.
Depictions of demons.
Yeah, yeah.
Online when I did Google searches and things like that.
And where are these all coming from?
They're from this book.
Wow.
It's really fascinating.
So who published it and who's behind it?
J. Colin de Pinosi.
Wow.
Wow.
So who's behind this?
It was published in France in France in 1800 something.
Wow.
But I've got it, I've had this idea that I want to do a series of pictures that are kind of like a modern demonology.
Oh, that would be so good.
I'd love that.
And I'd wanted to do it in this kind of style.
Wow.
It's great and it tells, you know, every entry tells you where the demon is in the hierarchy and what they specialized in and how they appeared.
Different ways.
It's a demon that specializes in anal sex.
Is that?
Yeah.
That wants you to.
Do you remember that tragic thing?
It was a vogue in America when girls were encouraged to preserve their virginity by having anal sex instead of on their first date.
I was laughing, but you shouldn't, because it's sad.
But apparently there is a demon that really wants everyone to have anal sex.
Disgusting ass.
Well, I once saw a demon.
I had a troubled girlfriend whose brother was in Broadmoor.
He murdered somebody.
I think there was a kind of...
I think there was a sort of...
Yeah, they were troubled.
And she woke one night screaming.
at the same time I saw what was in her head and it was a it had skulls round its neck human skulls and I remember it very vividly and it was horrible you saw it ye?
Yeah, yeah, I totally saw it.
Before you or on her face?
It was in I In your mind?
mind but the thing was I thought nothing of this for many years and then I was looking at a book reading about descriptions of demons and stuff and I recognised whatever demon it was that I'd seen I hadn't sort of been understood Why did I stop what?
Talking.
Oh, I thought I got to the end of that point.
point no you stopped in the middle of a sentence stop stop that fucking demon from stopping you say what you were going to say oh you just suddenly stopped did i yes how weird he's still in there he's still there fighting me trying to stop me um so you're talking about him um you vouted him well You saw him,
you said you saw him, then you said you had gone to a book.
Oh, but that was it.
Unrecognized.
I...
I...
I never made sense of what I'd seen until I read about him years later quite recently in a book described and a lot of these a lot of things that go on in I she was a pain.
She wouldn't go on the podcast in the end because she was...
Particularly when it encourages hatred of men.
But the thing that...
Really?
Or her head, rather.
the whole female pop star thing is about evil goddess worship.
It's about...
Because God is not...
he's a patriarch isn't he he's not a he's not a kind of or he God is the creator of everything.
Yeah, but he is a he.
Well, that's to do with the English language.
He can mean he or she.
Philip Sharrod writes about this.
He says that God contains within him, because, you know, we refer to God as him, but within God is both the male and the female energy.
Has to be.
That he chose to split and create men and women that are distinct and necessarily distinct but one at the same time and because Sherard wrote these really good short book on, I don't know what it's called, but it's to do with love and sex and God, the sacrament of love, basically, between men and women.
And how what is so significant about marriage and relationships between men and women is that in coming together, you are getting closer to God because you're unifying those two energies that are as one in God.
Well, he's right.
This is very close to Socrates.
He's got to be on the money.
Sorry?
He's got to be on the money there.
I mean, it's unfortunate for our gay friends, but I don't think that's particularly part of God's plan.
But this goes right back to Plato and Socrates.
I've got a very interesting book here about Plato and Shakespeare and beauty.
And that covers this area of love.
But love, of course, is so much bigger than erotic love.
But the love of beauty is entangled in it.
Well, Sherrod also writes that he thinks that when we were created, before the fall, we would have loved, we would have known love absolutely, and we would have been capable of loving one another, but we wouldn't have needed to resort to these beasts.
Yeah, but isn't it amazing we overcome the Gui and Messi through the love?
Well, yes.
I quite like the Gui and Messi, I have to say.
That's kind of love.
I know.
Absolutely.
But you see, that's strain.
I don't get, that's another thing I don't get about Paul, for example.
He does seem to kind of prefer one to be celibate.
Oh, he says you mustn't touch a woman.
Yeah, no, Sherard is dead against that.
He says it's a sacrament.
I think Paul is a miserable, he's a miserable sod who can't write.
And I, you know, obviously I accept that he had a pretty grim end and he did a lot of good work.
But I tell you what, I'm stuck in the epistles at the moment.
And I do not, you know, normally I look forward to my Bible reading in the evening.
Yeah.
And every night I'm thinking, oh, another chapter of Romans.
Yeah.
Oh, no.
Please, God, I know I shouldn't dislike it, but...
I feel the same.
I feel very slightly guilty if I try and invoke Paul for an argument.
Although Ephesians 6 is great.
I mean, that's the problem.
Well, I've noticed you keep saying that.
Look, we can't...
Are we allowed just to pick and choose our Paul and then say in the same sentence, he can't write, he's a politician.
He's a perverter of actually the truth about Jesus.
Well, I...
Look...
Just because he's wrapped up in the Bible.
I like...
Bindings.
6 is rock solid because it's been confirmed by Michael Heiser., the divine council is really interesting.
And this is one of the extraordinary things I find about it.
First of all, explain the Michael Heiser point.
Oh, Psalm 82 is the key psalm.
It's a tricky one.
It's tricky because a bit like the story of Nimrod and the Tower of Babel, it's so condensed that you've got to infer a little bit of it.
