Howard Steen is a retired R&D engineer. He spent 35 year career with large US consumer goods developer. Then he woke up. He now lives in Germany. During Covid he provided English summaries of the hearings of Reiner Fuellmich and Viviane Fischer’s Corona Committee. He chats to James about his awakening and what he thinks of the Reiner Fuellmich trial. https://substack.com/@howard366646↓
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Welcome to The Darling Pod, Howard Steen.
Speaking from Germany?
Correct.
There's a clue on your T-shirt.
What does it say?
Something about arts?
Oh, it says, actually, it says, defy doctors.
Ah!
Trotzer den Ersten.
Erste, yeah.
Erste, yeah.
Yeah, I did.
Don't trust the doctors.
Do you speak German?
Yes, I do.
Yes.
I mean, I've lived here since we came to Germany in 1988, me and my wife, and with one child, a three-year-old daughter at that time.
So, yes, I've lived in this area since then, apart from about a year and a half in the USA, Cincinnati.
With my employer.
And you've got quite a good sort of normie mugged by reality story to tell, haven't you?
Yeah, I suppose so.
Yes.
Yeah, I guess so.
Yes.
Because I do like a normie mugged by reality kind of story.
I think a lot of us who are down the rabbit hole, we sort of wonder what it was about us that why do we know what's going on and most people don't?
So I'm interested.
And you were quite high-powered, weren't you?
I mean, in your job, you were sort of a grown-up job.
Well, yes.
I mean, I was with the same employer all my working career, which amounted to actually 35 years.
I retired in 2008.
And, you know, it was just with a large American corporation, Procter& Gamble.
You know, I joined straight from college, from university.
You know, I was trained as a chemical engineer.
Well, I did natural sciences first, and then I, you know, specialized in chemical engineering.
Right.
And I joined the company, and I just kind of stayed with it, and I, you know, became a senior engineer, senior manager.
So, you know, no complaints about my career, and I thought it was all great at the time.
Would Procter& Gamble come under the category of Big Pharma?
Well, no, I wouldn't exactly describe them like that.
They're more into, you know, just consumer products, you know, in general.
I mean, in the UK, they were known for making laundry and detergents and shampoo, and then they got into diapers, you know, paper products, which was the business that I was...
Finally involved with in that company.
But before that, I worked on food products.
So, you know, frying oils, cooking fats and things like that.
Oh, all the really healthy things?
Like vegetables?
Yeah, well, yeah, we made...
I'll tell you a bit about that.
We made...
Actually, it was all done for the catering industry, like big bakeries, you know, and they need huge blocks of fats, you know, margarine or...
They call it shortening, which they can use to bake cakes and so on.
And, you know, I mean, not many people know this, but a lot of that was made using fish oil, actually.
I mean, we did use vegetable oils as well, but a lot of it was processed fish oil.
So I was very close to all the processing of these materials.
And from the research and development perspective, but I got into the factories and I ran trials on big equipment when we were developing new products and so on.
I suppose it never occurred to you at the time that any of these products might be deleterious to one's health?
No, I have to say, probably not really, James.
I mean, I think many of them are probably not.
I mean, I stopped buying margarines and all that sort of stuff because, yes, they are quite highly processed.
But on the other hand, people have been consuming these things for years and years and years.
I don't say that they don't cause any issues, but I think there are more dangerous things like that.
Taking injections.
Well, yeah, it's a question of degree, isn't it?
But I think that there are a number of ways to skin a cat.
And I think it would be a mistake to say, well, because vaccines are the most effective way at killing people, therefore we should ignore all the other things that are damaging people's health.
No, I agree with that.
Of course, yeah.
But I think there is a hierarchy of things one might want to look at.
And I actually don't think those products that Procter& Gamble was involved with, you know, were the worst offenders somehow.
Otherwise, I'd probably be dead because, you know, we had a frying laboratory and we had a bakery and we, you know, we were just week in, week out for a certain period of my career.
We were, you know, tasting products, you know, made with these oils.
I don't think I have any serious side effects.
But has your diet changed since?
Since when?
Well, I mean, since your awakening, let's say.
Well, yes, I would say, like I said, I don't buy margarine anymore.
Butter is fine.
And, you know, I'm not worried to consume saturated fat.
I think go for the stuff that's most natural and closest to nature.
You know, it doesn't have massive amounts of processing.
Totally.
So, tell me about your awakening.
What happened?
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
Well, I guess I'll just say a bit before the awakening.
So, you know, I said I retired in 2008.
I got an early retirement, so I was 58 when I retired.
I mean, I could have continued working, but I got a pretty generous offer to a severance agreement because the company was selling the business that I worked on, and they didn't have a job for me.
So I just took that.
I was very happy to go, and I had lots of things I wanted to do.
And one of them was I'd always been interested in sailing and mountaineering and stuff, so I wanted to do more than that.
So I bought myself a little boat, a sailing boat.
I actually bought it in Germany, and then I sailed it up to Norway, right up the coast to the north of Norway, and lots of friends came along with me, and all this was great.
And, you know, that just kind of went on for a few years until Corona arrived.
And at that time, I was keeping my boat.
It's just a little, you know, 28-foot sailing yacht.
But it was built to, you know, sail oceans and so on.
So very sturdy and great for two or three people, not more.
And when the, of course, when we had the lockdown, I couldn't travel to the UK.
And that was in 2020, just for the first half.
So we had, you know, actually at the time, my wife and I were, Sort of renovating our house because we were getting prepared to sell it.
And I was up on the roof, you know, painting windows and stuff.
And we had scaffolding all over the place.
So I was perfectly distanced from everything.
So nobody was worrying about anything.
But, you know, in the back of our minds, we were thinking, well, what's, you know, what's going on here?
Because, of course, you know, there weren't people dying on the streets or anything like that.
Pretty much, I mean, in Germany, nothing was going on, really.
And so, I actually think it was my wife who cottoned on to this first, because she's, you should really be having her on this show, not me, because she's the one, she's the, she's been into all these great conspiracy theories, like, you know, the Kennedy assassination and 9-11.
And she never tried to convince me about these things.
I guess maybe she thought, you know, I just wouldn't be prepared to go, you know, go along with it.
But anyway, when Corona happened, she immediately got on to the...
And all this stuff was happening in Italy, in Bergamo.
All these people were dying and, you know, this terrible, terrible pandemic.
So she got the Italian data, the government data, and it's on a website.
It's still got the link and it still works.
And it's on one piece of paper like that, you know, and it's all in English.
And it tells you who was dying.
And it's predominantly all old people.
And, I mean, that's what it is.
And you could see immediately, well, there's no risk here.
And I'd been going out on my, because we live close to the forest.
Well, lots of people live close to the forest in Germany, which is a nice feature of living here.
And I used to go out on my bike exercising.
And I was, you know, the propaganda was so strong that I was even partly taken in with it, I think.
Because I remember, you know, I'd be out on my mountain bike cycling along the trails and I'd pass people walking or cycling in the other direction.
And I held my breath, you know, because I thought, well, there might be something here.
No, I did that once in a lift when some Chinese people got in.
This was just when the store was coming out of China, and I thought, oh, this is a deadly virus coming out of China.
And I thought, these Chinese, they're...
So I did.
I did that trick.
Shows how far we've come.
So, you know, I'm ashamed to think that now.
But anyway, that's how people were reacting, and it gives an indication.
But once we saw this data, I mean, that was it.
It was all over.
We knew the whole thing was the fraud.
And then that somehow just opened my mind to the fact that these kind of deceptions are very happening all the time and in all kinds of, you know, we have all the 7-7 Manchester events and so on.
So that got me onto my conspiracy theorist journey.
Right.
I can't imagine that there are many ex-heads.
Oh, sorry, James.
The sound is breaking up a little bit there.
I can't hear you too well.
Let's have a look.
I was saying I can't imagine that there are many ex-heads of R&D at blue-chip multinational Companies who have gone down the rabbit hole.
I mean, do you ever have conversations with your old confreres about this sort of stuff?
Well, no, really, because this is the big shot to me.
And I thought, because I lived here in Germany, and you know about the Corona-Ausschuss and Reinformic and all.
That story, I guess.
So people in Germany had a place to go.
This was every Friday.
People tuned in to the Corona-Auschuss and you could hear all these experts, you know, Malone, Mike Eden, all the guys, really.
Not just scientists, doctors, sociologists, all kinds of people talking about, you know, this event, this thing that was happening.
So, yeah.
Sorry, I slightly lost the thread there, the question.
Oh, I like it.
The problem is, I don't know about...
It's very hot here, so I'm not...
Yes, I'm here, actually.
Yes.
It does.
But anyway, you know, we have this situation where we had a place to...
Oh yeah, you were talking about my, you know, my former colleagues at work and so on.
And no, there was a complete block of conversation there.
And I thought, well, I need to try and inform these people.
I need to tell them what I've found.
You know, and this is so easy to prove.
And I had quite a lot of respect.
For many of these people, like my old boss, who was actually a British guy, and I used to meet with him after I retired regularly at a local pub and we'd chat.
And I tried to show him some of the data.
I mean, he didn't dismiss it, but you could sort of tell that he wasn't really on board with any of this kind of explanation.
And then I just found...
With many of the friends who I had, I just got to a point because I kept sending them things.
Because one of the things I did was the Corona Aushers were broadcasting, you know, these sessions every Friday.
And I take bits, I download bits of them and put English subtitles on them and, you know, repost them as videos.
I remember you doing that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I thought, well, maybe I can...
Sorry?
You were the main conduit for the English translations of these hearings.
Yeah, because I felt something was really happening here in Germany, and people should hear it.
But nobody wanted to listen.
I mean, and that also was true of all my...
pretty much all of my former friends at Cambridge University.
I kept in touch with a lot of these guys.
They didn't want to hear it either.
In fact, many of them urged me to get vaccinated.
Do you know what?
I'm just writing this scene from this book I'm writing, my next book, and I'm just describing the scene where I go back for a Gordie.
Do you call them Gordys at Cambridge?
Oh, no.
What's that?
No.
The Gordy is the sort of 10-year, 20-year, 30-year reunion in your college.
Oh, yes.
Yeah, okay.
I know what you mean.
Yes.
And I used to go to those.
Yeah, they probably call something different in Cambridge.
But anyway, the reason I mention it is because it was just around the time of COVID when...
You know, we were obviously allowed out because we were...
But I was looking around at these people who were supposed to be the brightest and best of their generation and whom I'd looked up to when I was there thinking, you know, I'm surrounded by some really clever kids and they're going places and I'm scarcely...
I scarcely deserve to be here because everyone's so clever and going places.
And I looked around at these grey...
Careworn people.
And I thought, you all took the jab, didn't you?
You're supposed to be clever and you all took the jab.
And if I try talking to you about why I didn't take the jab, I did try on one person, I'm not going to have a very fruitful conversation because you're just going to look at me like I'm a nutcase.
But look at you.
You lot are supposed to be clever and you failed the ultimate intelligence test.
Yes.
Yeah, I think they did.
And that's something that's troubled me.
I mean, it really has troubled me in the intervening period that all that happened.
Because, you know, I'd maintained good relations with all of these people and quite a few of them had come sailing with me on my boat and so on.
And, you know, I thought before, well, life was pretty good, you know.
I did have this feeling in the back of my head, and I don't know where this came from, that maybe something wasn't quite right.
But I can't really, you know, I can't put a finger on why that happened.
So, are you still in touch with Rainer Formish?
Not directly.
I only ever met him once, James, and that was at one of the early demos.
In Germany.
And I had breakfast with him there.
And so I, you know, I had had personal contact with him.
And I had been in quite a few, you know, Zoom calls with him because at one time, you know, he had this group of lawyers, the international lawyers, and he did this grand jury attempt, you know, this kind of model, model for how to do a prosecution.
To get all the evidence.
And I think that was quite a good initiative.
And the idea was not that that was a real trial, but that it was a demonstration of how, you know, the perpetrators of this crime, great crime, which it is, it was, it is, you know, could be maybe brought to justice.
Have there been any functioning judiciary left anywhere in the world to do that?
I don't know how far down the rabbit hole you are, but there are two schools of thought on Reiner.
I know.
One is that he is a total hero, you know, the international lawyer based partly in America and partly in Germany, who who held the the sort of the vaccine.
Public health state to account in Germany and conducted these thorough cross-examinations of witnesses and woke a lot of people up to what was going on in a kind of a sober analytical expert way.
And then there are those who say that Actually, he was, in his own way, he was part of the deception, that he gave people the false hope.
Don't worry, you needn't worry about this.
This top international lawyer has got it, he's got this one.
He's fighting your corner with these hearings, and something's going to come of it, because look at his track record.
I think he was involved in the VW, in the emissions scandal and stuff like that.
I don't know what to think.
Because I think that this is a world where you can never trust anyone totally.
What people pointed to with the rhyme of Fulmich, those who are sceptical of him, pointed to the fact that he filmed some of his stuff with a checkerboard black and white Masonic floor and a suit of armour, both of which apparently are indicative of Masonic.
Illuminati, you know, and they love their symbols, these people.
I mean, I'm sorry that he's in prison right now.
He's been given quite a stiff sentence, hasn't he?
What's the story?
Well, yeah, I think it's three years and nine months.
For what?
What have they got him on?
Well, not being able to pay back 700, I think it's 600,000 or 700,000 euros in funds.
Which he borrowed from the Korona Auschus when he and Viviana Fischer, who sort of co-founded, I don't quite know how the Korona Auschus, what actually happened there, how it came together, but at least those two were there at the beginning and they were somehow connected in it together.
At some point they, this is the story anyway, you know, the two of them decided that in light of actions that were being taken by the government to confiscate funds of people who were, you know, against the regime view of things, they should protect the donations which people had given to the Ausschuss for them to do their, in Germany it's called Aufklärung.
There's not a very good translation for that in English, but it means re-examination of what happened, investigating and finding out what the truth was.
Aufklärung.
Is it like clearing out?
Aufklärung.
You can't really translate it in one word, but in the sense that it's being used in the aftermath of the Corona crisis, it just means going back, re-examining what...
Really happened versus, you know, what the government narrative is and, you know, finding out really what went on.
Yeah, sorry.
So this puts people in a quandary, doesn't it?
Because it sounds on the surface like a legitimate reason for him to be in trouble if he has been embezzling funds.
But I suppose there'll be those on the other side, his defenders, saying...
This is a trumped-up charge, and it's just their way of getting him.
I don't know what to think of this.
Do you?
Well, I'll tell you what I think.
Because, I mean, funnily enough, before we started this call, I was just working on this Fulmic case.
Because in the course of all this current Asha stuff, myself and a couple of other friends had this idea that, well, we...
You know, because there were cases starting against governments and so on.
And we thought, well, we'll try and document some of these cases.
So we set up a website called coronacases.wiki.
And the Auschus did support that to the extent they, I think they paid for the domain name of the website.
And we appeared on the Corona Auschus and talked about it.
And everybody agreed.
Yes, it was a great idea.
You know, people should document these cases.
And we have the slightly naive idea that maybe if we made this known, you know, lawyers might be able to write to us and send us their case details and we would publish them.
But we have to start doing that by ourselves, really.
And then we try to get the word out.
But the reality is all these lawyers are so busy, they're never going to take the time to write to you and tell you about their cases.
You have to get the information yourself.
So we documented about 50 of the cases.
One of the early ones being in Germany, the Weimar masking case, if you know that one, which was in a school where a mother complained that her children had been forced to wear masks.
And the judge, in a highly unusual case, called expert witnesses and decided for the mother.
So this was something big in Germany.
But then that judge got totally persecuted.
But anyway, that's an interesting story.
Did he end up getting booted out?
Oh, it was incredible.
I mean, that case was incredible.
And it's still on our website.
It's still there.
It's in a sort of archive form, but you can access the cases.
What happened after that case?
It was Judge Detlef, I think, in Weimar.
I think it was a children's court, a family court or something like that.
And, yeah, they really...
The police came in.
They raided the houses of all the expert witnesses, took computers and everything like this.
Quite incredible.
And then the...
The judge got penalized.
And I think, I'm not quite sure what the status is now, but I think that judge's career is finished.
And all they did, you know, was to, I mean, they had some pretty good people, I think, but the judge was, what was the accusation against the judge?
It was something like, you know, you yourself were biased.
And you chose experts who would confirm your bias.
Anyway, it's getting slightly off the subject of Reiner.
But anyway, so we were doing that.
And, you know, the coronavirus just wanted to support it.
And then there was this huge breakup happened, you know, with Viviana and Reiner.
In terms of, I wanted to really get on to what I think about it.
And I'm a bit like you, James.
I don't exactly know.
And I tried at a certain point, this was about a year ago, before we stopped adding cases to this website.
I thought, well, I must try to summarize this whole situation for me.
And I tried to sit down and research it and write a summary of the case.
And I couldn't.
Because it's just so confusing, the whole thing.
And that really made me start to think.
And I'm in a sort of position where I have to hold two views about this.
One is that, I mean, I'd like to think that he's totally innocent of everything.
But on the other hand, you know, one has to, I think, realize, I mean, once you've studied.
I mean, you see how an alternative reality can be so easily created.
And I don't think it's unreasonable to think that since the corona was a pandemic, the planners would have anticipated that certainly a country like Germany, there would be some sizable level of resistance.
And perhaps think of a way to channel that in a certain direction and then, you know, collapse it, which is one way you can think about what happened.
Because when this big bust-up occurred in the Ashes, and Viviana Fisher and these two other lawyers accused Reiner of embezzling the funds, exactly at that point.
Both Vivian Fischer and Reiner, they were the political leaders of a new party in Germany called Die Basis, if you've heard about that.
Die what?
I don't know.
It's called Die Basis.
It was a political attempt to set up a new political party.
What does that mean?
It means the base.
It means the base.
Yeah, and that movement certainly was gaining And in fact, I even joined it myself for a while, while I thought it might be able to offer something.
So Rainer and Viviana were effectively, yeah, they were elected as leaders of that party.
And when this breakup of the EUSH just happened, that destroyed the Basis party.
It didn't exist anymore.
Was the AFD on COVID and on the draconian...
Well, I think they've been pretty good, really.
I think they've...
If you take somebody like...
The person I followed quite a lot was Christine Anderson.
She's a member of the European Parliament.
And there were also some other MEPs, actually from different countries, who formed a group with her.
These people have been consistently against the measures, against the vaccines, against the lockdowns.
And against the vaccines as well.
Yes, absolutely.
They've been pretty good.
And by the way, the AFD now has, I think, the majority of the support of all the parties.
They have 60%.
Yeah, they're ahead, actually, of all the other parties in terms of support in the population.
That's remarkable.
I mean, it sends my conspiracy antennae twitching, because I think anyone that gets to that level of support, alleged support, is going to be co-opted.
It's going to be suspicious.
I mean, like reform is just continuation.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, that's obviously a danger.
I think that could happen.
But anyway, just getting back to the full mic, to finish that off.
I mean, there's also things about his background which, because I've tried to find details of these great, you know, perception cases that he claimed that he ran.
You don't find very much at all.
And maybe there was one mention, and I forget, I think there were three, there was BW, Kuna and Nagel, and Deutsche Bank.
They were the three things that he talked about where he had done great things.
Been, you know, very, very, very successful.
But you don't find much about that, really.
So I don't know.
I think there was a lot of promise there.
But in the end, if I look at what he delivered, I mean, I'm just talking about the legal work, not the Enlightenment work.
I mean, there's Friday.
Events, three hours, five hours, sometimes it was that long.
Were they educated people?
All right, that was valuable, yes.
But I'm talking about the legal work now, what he did.
I think there have been far more effective lawyers operating in places like the USA.
Not much in the UK, I don't think.
And now, more recently in Germany, there are some very good actions started.
By a German doctor in Heidelberg called Gunther Frank, who is using the FOIA request, Freedom of Information request, with the local council to get the minutes.
Because all these local councils had COVID crisis teams, of course, and they all had to decide things to do in their cities.
And some of them did it with zeal and I would say a lot of excess, over-excess.
And maybe some of the others were, you know, a bit more careful about it.
But certainly in Heidelberg, they were in the, you know, overly zealous category.
And they did some bad, certainly bad things there, which they, even the government wasn't suggesting, you know, like vaccinating under 12-year-olds.
So anyway.
So Gunter Frank, this only happened in the last month or so, they got back the whole of the minutes of these meetings that took place in the Heidelberg City Council, pretty much unredacted.
There's some places they had to remove names.
And now they've got something to work with.
And Gunter Frank, he's a member of the council because he set up this, what do they call it?
I-D-A, Initiative for Democracy and that word, Aufklärung, Enlightenment.
You can say Enlightenment.
So he's been very effective and he can give these councils hell in the meeting time that he's allowed to talk.
And initially, you know, he was being treated as a conspiracy theorist.
But he said in the last meeting that he did just a couple of weeks ago, And I had some contact with him.
But people are now, you know, they're not just ignoring him.
They're starting to listen.
So that's hopeful.
And he's encouraging people to do this type of action in other towns and cities.
And I think some of us where I live will have a go at doing that in our town.
Maybe a couple of the local towns.
What recourse does he have there?
I mean, what will he achieve by, I mean, apart from Aufklärung, what will...
Well, all of these, yeah, that's, yes, okay.
Well, I think these people are just not facing up to what they did during that time.
And some of the problems they have today, he said most of these town councils in Germany have run up huge, huge debts.
Of course, that's not all due to Corona, but probably quite a bit of it is.
I think in Heidelberg, it's something like 100 million euros that have accumulated.
I mean, other things are stupid, woke projects and probably climate action.
I mean, actually, all kinds of things that are going wrong.
But some of it certainly is related to Corona.
And they need to know that there's a sizable proportion of the population who don't agree with, you know, what they're doing with taxpayers' money, as they did in Corona.
When you say sizable, I suppose you've...
Do you travel enough to get any gauge?
As a percentage, are there more awake people, fewer awake people, or about the same in Germany as in other places?
Well, it's said that something like 20% of the German population, or maybe it's 20 million.
20 million Germans didn't take the injections.
20 million?
I mean, that's 20. I mean, I think that's quite a sizable.
Proportion of the population.
That's...
What's the population of Germany?
I think it's 86, is it, or something like that.
Oh, so pretty much the same as Britain's.
Yeah.
But you've got more space.
You've got more Lebensraum in Germany, haven't you?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I suppose that's encouraging, because one thinks of Germans...
The cliche that they're very good at obeying orders and stuff, and so it's good to know that they've got that independent-mindedness.
I think there is, yeah, and there are some very good people here who I've been following.
One of them is a data analyst called Tom Lawson, and he's also been investigating the Bergamo, what happened in Bergamo in northern Italy.
And the way he works, actually, is quite interesting because he only works with government data.
So he basically uses the data that government published to prove that they took bad decisions during the time of Corona.
And he's getting results.
I think he's getting results.
Yes, no, I read it.
Now, just remind me, so, I remember Bergamo, and the reason is, when I was, the name always stuck in my head, because when I was 19, I was going on an overland trip to Africa, and we went in this big bus, and we went through Vienna, and in the gardens of the Schönbrunn, I met this really fit Italian girl.
And I remember she came from Bergamo.
Unfortunately, it was one of those sort of fleeting things where I never saw her again.
But I remember the girl and the place.
And then the next thing I knew...
35, 40 years on, in the news was all these people were dying in Bergamo, in northern Italy, and they couldn't get them in the hospitals.
They were just sort of like dying on the steps, and the surgeons were coming out saying, we don't know what to do, it's just terrible.
And wasn't there a scene where the Italian military, they brought loads and loads of military ambulances and pretended that they were stuffed full of corpses when, in fact, there was probably about one corpse in every third ambulance.
Yeah, this incident, you're quite right about that.
This incident occurred on the 18th of March in 2020, and interestingly, it was the day after the Robert Koch Institute in Germany.
And that increased the risk level of the coronavirus from moderate to high.
And maybe that's more than just a coincidence.
So what happened was, yeah, apparently there was an off-duty flight attendant staying in some accommodation in Bergamo.
It was either early morning or late evening.
I looked out of the window and saw all these trucks.
I think it was 15 or something like that.
Trucks.
Convoy, anyway.
And these were the trucks that were taking the coffins, you know, of the dead away from Bergamo because they couldn't bury people.
There was a prohibition of burying people, so they had to be cremated and so on.
But the way that, even the story behind that, so the way that came about was that a lady undertaker at one of the Funeral undertakers in Bergamo was getting frustrated because, yeah, they were getting all these coffins, you know, were kind of piling up and they didn't know what to do with them.
They couldn't process them in a normal way.
And she was totally, totally pulling her hair out.
She didn't know what to do.
So she wrote, she phoned up some authority.
It wasn't the military.
It certainly wasn't the military.
She said, you know, can you help us?
We need a bit of help to move these coffins, because we can't bury them.
And then all these trucks turned up, army trucks.
And she said afterwards, no, this was not the sort of help we wanted.
And I think it was a kind of photo op, part of the psyop, really, most likely, you know, to instill fear.
Because that photo taken by the off-duty flight attendant, that became one of the iconic, you know, images of Bergamo, as they were called, which fueled all the fear across Europe.
And that was not just Europe.
I mean, these images traveled worldwide.
And then, of course, there was this huge death spike of 6,000 excess deaths occurring.
Over a period of only a few weeks, like four or five weeks, or maybe the concentrated part of it, I think, maybe happened in two weeks.
And, I mean, whichever way you look at that, there's no epidemiological explanation for that happening.
No, indeed.
So, I know you've been writing about this.
What are the conclusions that have been drawn about this?
Well, I mean, at first, quite a few people have looked at this.
I mean, I can mention the names of some people.
There's Tom Lawson himself.
But I think the first investigators to really look at it were a lady called Jessica Hockett, who lives in Chicago, because there was a similar event in New York City.
Same thing.
Huge, huge death spike.
It comes out of nothing.
Nothing's going on at all.
And suddenly, massive, massive number of deaths goes up, you know, like a rocket.
And then it comes down like a rocket.
And then it goes back to normal again.
And anywhere outside the region, nothing's going on.
So, you know, that, of course, that looks suspicious.
So people started thinking Jessica Hockett as Jonathan Engler in the UK, and then Tom Lawson in Germany.
And they recently said, well, you know, can we really believe these things?
I mean, could they have been manipulated, you know, to make it...
I mean, they're not saying nobody died.
That wasn't the suggestion.
The suggestion was, yeah, there were probably some people who died because we know people were not well treated in hospitals or they were neglected in care homes or they were abandoned and so on and so forth.
These were, you know, the lockdown.
There were lockdown deaths.
There were deaths through so-called iatrogenic deaths.
Through medical mismanagement, you could say.
And so some people clearly died, but maybe the numbers were enhanced to make it look, you know, an even more catastrophic sort of thing.
So that's why Tom Lawson in Germany thought the only way to settle this is to go back to the cemeteries in Bergamo and actually count graves.
And that's what he did.
I think it's about, yeah, they went there in the beginning of April.
And I might have gone with them had it not been for the fact that I was on a family vacation, which was in Italy, but in a different part of Italy.
But a friend of mine who lives locally here, he's German but speaks very good Italian.
He went along as a translator to help.
To help with the visit.
And what they found there was, well, this is what the data shows anyway, so you can't really argue with it.
So the official numbers are correct.
It was 6,000 people who died in that very short space at the time.
So, you know, we know that now.
That wasn't faked.
That wasn't the part that was faked.
I mean, the part that was faked, of course, that this was all due to a novel.
Virus, which we know doesn't exist.
Yes, well, how many of those people...
This was the time when they were putting people on ventilators, wasn't it?
Yeah, there was that happening, most certainly.
But the interesting thing about the deaths was they were all, all of them.
And this ties in with what my wife found from the official Italian data.
It's all very old people.
I mean, they were counting people from, I think, ages...
I can't remember the exact, but it was, you know, 80s, 90s, 100s.
I think they even found somebody who was 107 years old or something like that.
So they were all elderly people.
And of course, then it wasn't just happening in hospitals.
I mean, you have to imagine that some of these people would also have been living at home and maybe they were getting...
You know, they needed assistance for living, so they were getting carers coming to visit them and make sure they're taking their medicines and so on and so forth, as happens with old people.
And then, during these lockdowns, one of the known things that happened was that when Bergamo province announced this lockdown, many of the foreign workers Who were living there, some of whom would have been employed as care workers either in hospitals or doing home visits.
They didn't want to be locked up.
So they all fled the region.
And there are witness reports of train stations being crowded with people trying to get out of the area.
So, you know, you have to imagine that all these old people, many of them were left unattended.
Right.
And the suggestion is many of them would have died of maybe thirst or starvation because they didn't get medicine.
I mean, all that has to be somehow clarified.
But that, I think, is the most likely thing to explain what happened.
And what happened in the hospitals as well.
I mean, an interesting, again, it's a kind of coincidence, is...
One of the largest hospitals in Bergamo, I don't remember the total name of it, but it has something like Pope III Hospital or something like that, Pope VII, I'm not sure.
The chief doctor there is a guy, somebody called Marco Rizzi.
Who recently, and Stern Magazine recently published, and that was in January I think this year, published an article in which he's interviewed.
He's retired now, but he's interviewed.
And he's saying how bad it was and how they had to improvise and so on.
It's very interesting that he has a son, an Italian son, who works in Germany, who's a top executive at...
BioNTech will make the vaccines.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm not saying there's anything that's connected there, but it does seem a strange coincidence.
Well, I think a lot of this went on.
I think I was in Italy recently as well, and I was talking to...
You were in Florence, yeah.
Yeah, I was talking to the woman.
Who owned our Airbnb.
And she turned out she hadn't taken the jab.
And I said, Italy, you really let yourself down, didn't you?
Because a lot of us are thinking la dolce vita, you know, the food and the culture and you've got everything in it.
And you're such carefree, happy-go-lucky people.
You're nice to be with.
And then you reminded us.
Of what you do when push comes to shove.
When the chips are down, you just allow yourselves to be imprisoned in your own homes.
You don't resist.
You've got the Carabinieri enforcing this stuff.
I think Italy had just about the worst restrictions in Europe, didn't they?
I think they were very severe.
I've heard they were also pretty severe in Spain, in Madrid.
In Spain, yeah.
And they also had...
I mean, these death spikes, I mean, the worst ones, I think, were in Bergamo and New York City, but there were also smaller ones.
I think in Spain was one country, one city, London even.
It's not much talked about, but certainly there were excess deaths there.
But in Germany, there weren't any at all.
Yeah, but I think we can...
It was a smart virus.
We can safely conclude we awake people that these No, definitely engineered.
No question about that.
And so it had all been stitched up beforehand.
So they decided what the policy was going to be.
So all that remained was for them to enforce it as strongly as they felt necessary.
And they clearly felt that it was better to go in really, really hard in order to get the desired effect.
I think they wanted an effect.
They needed an effect.
The role of Germany in that is much discussed.
Yes, tell us about the role of Germany.
There was a particularly bad, was it Drosten?
Well, Drosten was the author of the PCR test and the whole thing about how that was, you know, their recommendation for that test was authorised.
It just all happened in a matter of days where normally there would have been a long peer review to introduce something like that.
It was literally done in about 24 hours.
So that was extremely suspicious.
And I had a bit of involvement with the group of 22 scientists who looked into that test, the design of the test.
And there was an interesting group of people.
You know, there were virologists, there were other scientists, there were genetic experts and so on.
There was a somewhat diverse background, and I believe some of them actually probably didn't even believe in viruses.
We should talk about that, but anyway.
They didn't even believe in viruses, most probably.
But they did come to one key agreement, which was that this so-called sequence, the SARS-CoV-2 sequence, if you were going to design a test to recognize that in a patient by testing, Then that test that Drosten produced could not have done that.
That's the one thing they could agree on.
And that was the conclusion of the review of that test.
But of course the test remained and that's what was used to generate all these numbers of cases which they needed.
They really needed those cases.
And they really needed to show an emergency situation.
And you can see in this report of the minutes from the Robert Koch Institute.
And these were all released in a...
Well, it was kind of like a two-stage release.
These show that there were a lot of irregular, let's say, irregular activities going on within the Robert Koch Institute.
Like, for example, in mid-March 2020, the president and Lothar Vila and his deputy, I think a person called Lars Schader, met on a Sunday.
On a Sunday.
And decided for themselves that the risk level of the coronavirus, I think I mentioned this earlier, should be increased from moderate.
It had been moderate to high without any basis because the hospitals weren't overloaded.
I don't think there were even that many cases, really.
So they just decided to do that.
Without any data.
And this is supposed to be a scientific institute.
And then, I mean, this is the other strange thing.
On the Monday, after that Sunday they decided, on the Monday, which I think was the 16th of March, the RKO decided that that increase could only be made public on the instructions of someone.
Whose name was blacked out in the minutes.
So there's obviously somebody higher than the president of the RKI, and he had the ultimate control of what was being released to the public.
Who do you think it was?
That turns out to be a military person called Hans Ulrich Holferm.
And he had been somehow appointed by Jens Spahn, I think.
I think that was the health minister at the time.
He'd been appointed to head up a special new unit in the Ministry of Health, which was...
I think it was responsible for the rollout of the vaccine.
And this military person who...
In the meetings of the Ministry of Health, only ever appeared in his military uniform.
And that appointment was never announced in public.
The public never knew anything about this, and it wasn't reported on in the press.
And this guy was also effectively the boss of the RKI Institute, so he could call the shots about what reports the RKI gave out.
So you can see this was all very carefully controlled.
And I think this was being done in a way that they...
I mean, the whole thing was about getting people injected.
So this was all about the vaccine.
And of course, the German governments had invested quite a lot in BioNTech, BioNTech itself.
Gels with what we know of what happened in the US, which is essentially the Department of Defense which was ultimately supervising this.
So in both Germany and America, and probably in the UK as well and elsewhere, what it really was was the military declaring war on the people.
And they were in charge of the...
Yeah, well, I guess the way they would explain it, yes, that's the way we look at it, and that's how I think about it.
But I think the way they would explain it is that pandemics are a real threat, and when something like this happens, it's a global concern, and we need to react quickly and so on and so forth.
So there's this huge pandemic preparedness industry out there, and they're rehearsing these things, as we know, like, you know, they did the event 201, and they're doing this all the time, you know, for what's coming up next.
And the world is always going to be a big one, the next one, and so on.
And when you look at the advertising they do for their activities, it does have a very militaristic feel to it, I think.
Yeah.
It's not overtly said, but in some of the videos you see people, you know, wearing military.
And it's now known that throughout Europe, well, so Germany had this general health system, right?
There's no doubt about that.
And then the Dutch health minister a few months ago mentioned that the pandemic response there was handled by a NATO general.
Then I think in...
In Spain, I think there was another military person.
And in Italy too.
So, I haven't heard anything about the UK.
It's not much been said about the military in the UK, but I bet there's been something going on there.
Sorry, you seem to have completely frozen.
Ah, yes, no, it did.
I've noticed in the course of this chat that the internet's got...
I've got more interference.
As far as I know, Howard, I've not seen any explicit links.
I mean, apart from the nonsense where...
Do you remember the military opened these things called Nightingale Hospitals?
Oh, yes, yes.
These fake disaster hospitals, to give the impression this was a national emergency and stuff.
No, but what I was saying was that We've had various generals paraded before us of late saying, we really are woefully alarmed and we must prepare for war against the Russian bear menace.
And you look at these people and you think, you are so low grade.
Heaven help us if ever there's a war, because you're the guys who are going to be in charge of us, giving us orders.
Some of us have no respect for you.
You're just slaves of your...
You're obeying orders from these sinister organisations which have nothing to do with the interests of the British people.
You're not answering to us.
You're a terrible lot.
But I suppose this is what we...
Once we've gone down the rabbit hole, we're kind of used to this, aren't we?
We don't trust doctors.
We don't trust experts of any kind, actually.
We don't trust the military.
We don't trust lawyers.
They're all in it.
Yeah.
Yes, and virologists.
I mean, we...
Well, yeah, I mean, I think I'm veering towards viruses don't exist, aren't you?
Well, actually, I don't say it that way, James, because I think that kind of plays towards like this thing, you know, somebody says, well, you're an anti-vaxxer.
So if I say viruses don't exist, what do I mean about that?
No, I wouldn't say there isn't some sort of entity, you know, thing that can be identified out there.
But I think it's a case of mistaken identity.
So the virologists say, yeah, well, we see this thing.
Actually, they don't really see it.
And we say it has this properties.
We say that it's dead, right?
And one thing, it's not a living thing, right?
But then when it gets into somebody, it somehow does become alive and it's able to replicate itself.
So that's a rather interesting suggestion right there.
Something like that can happen.
I would say that's very unusual.
So that's one thing they say.
They say it can be transmitted.
I mean, we're talking about respiratory viruses now.
We're saying it can be transmitted from person to person, through the air, from an infected person who's sick to a healthy person who's healthy and doesn't have any symptoms.
And the healthy person will get sick because of the virus.
Which nobody can see.
Nobody can see this happening.
That's the big problem with all these things.
They say that happens.
And when it gets into the cells of the healthy person, from the sick person, it can kill those cells.
So it's a pathogenic thing.
And they say we do this experiment, which is we take a cell culture.
So we take some healthy, undiseased cells.
And I didn't even know this, but you can buy these cells in these various biological databanks.
And they're frozen.
And they get them from, you know, human fetuses and monkey fetuses and all kinds of sources like that.
And they're frozen cryogenically.
I think they're called cell lines.
And you can order them if you're, you know, a lab or doing research, and you bring them back to life in a petri dish, and you have to feed them.
I mean, they don't just come to life and live.
You have to give them nutrients.
And one of the nutrients they use is, I think it's effectively blood from calves or something like that, fetal bovine serum, it's called.
So you put a bit of this nutrient in to keep them alive.
And then this is what the biologists do.
They introduce a sample of what they called a purified sort of virus.
And so this is just some mucus or something from the lung of a sick person, which they've somehow filtered.
And they say, that's the virus, that's the virus.
And they put that onto these cells.
And they have some other sort of stuff in there.
They put some antibiotics in there because, yeah, well, they say they don't want to keep the whole environment clean somehow.
And then they see the cells die, right?
And they say, ah, there, the virus caused that.
Right?
Yeah.
But if you do that same experiment, You do everything the same, except that you don't add the sample of the so-called virus.
The cells still die.
Yes.
I mean, I'm familiar with some of this.
I'm a bit...
Put it this way.
One of my tells, when I'm trying to spot who's a wrong one, anyone pushing the theory that...
There was a lab leak and that these viruses were being engineered in the lab.
They were being weaponised and they were isolating this or that thing and splicing them together and it's just bollocks.
They can't do that.
It's just absolute bollocks.
No, I think the whole thing was fake.
That's the distraction.
That's this false binary.
You've got to choose one or the other.
It's natural or it was a lab leak.
No, I think the reality is...
We're not going to solve it here.
No, no, that's right.
We're really not.
Because it is around, and it would be very...
Realistically, that's not going to get resolved.
But if it is resolved, in the only way that I think it can be resolved, which is to admit the evidence that...
There isn't really anything to say that these particles really do things in the way they're said.
I don't like saying viruses don't exist, but I think that may take some time.
I think you're right with that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think rather than risk more interference, I think...
We'll probably wind it up there.
Tell me about what's, before we go, how are you feeling at the moment in Germany?
How do I feel at the moment?
Yeah.
Well, on the one hand, I mean, there is no real rule of law.
I mean, it's just dreadful, the kind of judgments, you know, that are being handed down in the courts and so on.
Against doctors who didn't want to subject their patients to masking and wrote them, you know, mask exemption certificates or broadcast to their patients that they shouldn't be taking the vaccine.
I mean, there's been a big clamp down.
And they're still putting doctors in jail and fining them for these sort of...
for doing what they're supposed to do as doctors and not...
Harmed their patients.
So that's still going on.
And then you've got all the climate nonsense, of course, the war on carbon dioxide.
Yes, we have that too.
You've got, yes, an eggy vendor.
Yes, yes.
It's tripping your heavy industry.
Well, and, I mean, look at, I mean, just causing massive inflation.
Yeah.
We've got all that.
We've got the immigration problem.
Lots of people coming in.
I don't think that's done deliberately to destabilize the society.
Oh, definitely.
Most likely.
Yeah.
So I don't feel great about it, but I don't see it being a lot better anywhere else, really.
And I do take some hope from these Freedom of Information Act actions that I described earlier.
I think that may certainly help to draw attention to what happened during the corona time and at least try and get that cleared up.
Maybe then there might be a general awakening.
My wife is more pessimistic about this.
Yeah, your wife's right, Howard.
Spoiler.
Nobody's going to wake up.
They're really not.
No, that's right.
It's over for all of us.
That's why you've got to make your peace with God.
Because he's the only one who's going to do anything about the situation we're in.
Well, yes, I know.
I mean, I'm not, you know, I'm not particularly religious, but I, you know, I do, you know, I do believe there's a spiritual dimension through life.
So, you know, I listen, you know, to all that.
Well, thank you very much for your dispatch from Germany, and thank you for your early work doing the translations, which was how I came upon.
You're welcome.
Reiner Fulmich.
Is it Fulmich or Fulmich?
Fulmich, yeah.
Fulmich.
I like that Misch, the Isch sound in German.
I think it's a nice sound.
Isch, yeah.
Isch.
Yeah.
Because everyone thinks that it's like an SS guy.
Yeah, Misch, Misch.
But it's softer than that.
No, it's like Isch.
It's Isch.
Isch.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Yeah, it's a nicer sound.
So, tell us where we can find you.
Well, on X. On X. Yeah, and I just started writing on Substack in the last few months.
I never thought I would be much good at writing, but no, I just started it.
So, you know, I've been covering some...
Well, what got me going?
Oh, yeah, I'll tell you what got me going on that.
It was Gladio.
Operation Gladio, when I first heard about that, that was about two years ago.
That's a whole other area, isn't it?
Operation Gladio, which is what, remind me very briefly, I do know about it, but...
Well, what happened was, this arose from the end of the Second World War, when there were, it was discovered, people did not realise this, but it was discovered that in 1991, the Italian Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti had to stand up in Parliament and admit that in Italy there had been a secret army of people who were ostensibly,
and this was true of every country in Europe, not just Italy, and they were ostensibly put in place at the end of the Second World War because the Allies, I think particularly the Americans, And this was also all organised through the CIA.
And a guy called James Jesus Angleton was one of the chief architects of this.
Yeah, who went to my school.
They were worried about the threat of a...
He did.
Yeah.
I mean, I wasn't at school with him, but Alistair Crowley and James Jesus Angleton both went to my school.
It's weird.
Two of the most evil men in the world, in history.
Yes, absolutely.
And me, I'm the third.
Yeah, anyway, carry on.
Yeah, I mean, Angleton said something like, I'll try and quote him.
He said something about deception.
Yes, I think it's this.
Deception is a state of the mind and the mind of the state.
So he basically set up this program across Europe.
It's said to have been done by NATO.
So NATO and the CIA, where they had these secret armies in every country who had stashes of weapons and explosives.
And they were there in the event that Russia, the Soviet Union, invaded Europe.
So there would be some kind of resistance in place.
And the people who, certainly in Italy, they used to form these armies were actually...
We're also left behind armies from the Nazis who retreated out of those countries.
So they were actually, yeah, they were Nazis.
So it was like Paperclip turning into Operation Paperclip, merging with Gladier.
Yeah, and of course they had to have something to do, and there was nothing to do because there was never any invasion from the Soviets.
So what they did, and at one point in Italy, there was fear.
That Communists would be elected, you know, into the government.
And that did not happen at all costs.
So the Stay Behind Army in Italy organized terror attacks on the local population.
So they had, for example, there was a big train bombing in one of the big station in Italy.
Bologna?
Bologna, yeah, Bologna.
That train bombing, that was done by Gladio.
And they blamed it on the left, they blamed it on the communists, but it was really these far-right-wing fascist Nazi groups that did it.
And that, interestingly, that was also, and that went on for 50 years.
Yes.
It was announced in the shock announcement by Giulio Andriotti in Parliament.
Big scandal at the time, but everybody's forgotten about it, James.
Well, not everyone.
The reason I know about, or I last heard of Operation Gladio, was because it turns out that Ole Damogard, his parents were both Operation Gladio deep cover agents.
Oh, really?
Wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's a crazy messed up world.
He's a Norwegian.
He's Norwegian, yeah.
So there you are, he's a Norwegian.
Who'd have thought Norway would have had these Nazis?
Yeah, it existed all over Europe.
It was in Norway too.
But then...
Do you think there was some in England?
Oh, I think that would have been something.
Underground Nazis.
Yeah, there would be.
And when we came to Germany, we came to Germany in 1988, and then in 1989, there was a terror attack just not very far from where we lived, in which Alfred Herrenhausen, who was, I think, the chairman of Deutsche Bank, was blown up and killed on his way to the office in his car.
And that was always blamed on the Red Army faction.
But the public prosecutors could never pin anything on them.
And I actually think that might have been one of the last operations that Gladio did in Europe.
Gladio.
And the reason for that was that Heronhausen was very much in favour of developing economic ties with Russia.
And the Deutsche Bank was the first bank to open a branch in Moscow.
And I think that was probably not wanted.
I mean, I don't know.
That's just the speculation.
So a rare case of Deutsche Bank doing the right thing rather than the wrong thing and being punished for it.
Yes.
Right.
Well, Howard, it's been great talking to you.
Yeah, and I've enjoyed it as well.
Go to Howard's Substack.
Oh, yeah.
And thank you everyone for watching and listening.
And please...
Consider supporting me on Substack or on Patreon or Locals.
If you don't want to do that, you can always support my...
Well, you should support my sponsors because they sell some good stuff.
And, oh yeah, buy me a coffee.
I like being bought a coffee, or three, or five, or twenty if you want.
Thank you very much again, Howard Steen, and thank you for listening to or watching The Delling Pod.
Goodbye.
Thank you.
and defy the doctors.
*music*
Global warming is a massive con.
There was no...
Evidence whatsoever that man-made climate change is a problem that is going to kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to deal with it.
It's a non-existent problem.
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition of my 2012 classic book, Watermelons, which captures the story of how Some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.
It's a shocking story.
I wrote it, as I say, in 2011 actually.
The first edition came out.
And it's a snapshot of a particular era.
The era when the people behind the climate change scan Got caught red-handed, tinkering with the data, torturing till it screamed in a scandal that I helped christen Climategate.
So I give you the background to the skullduggery that went on in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were informing us, we've got to act now.
I rumbled their scam.
I then asked the question, okay, if it is a scam, who's doing this and why?
It's a good story.
I've kept the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end, explaining how it's even worse than we thought.
I think it still stands up.
I think it's a good read.
Obviously, I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.
You can buy it from jamesdellingpole.co.uk I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring round all those people who are still persuaded that it's a disaster, we must amend our ways and appease the gods, appease Mother God.
