Andy Ross is a Yorkshireman, former IT engineer, and co-author - with John Hamer - of Sixty Degrees South, an exploration in novel form of the Antarctica rabbit hole. James and Andy talk about Amelia Earhart’s last journey, the Gleason Map, Flat Earth, Scott’s expedition and the mysteries of the forbidden continent….
https://sixty-degrees-south.com
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Good Food Project is hosting a Barbara O’Neill event at Cranage Estate in Cheshire from the 20th to 24th May.Visit www.goodfoodproject.co.uk, find the event link at the top of the homepage, and use code delingpole15 for 15% off your virtual ticket.
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Brand Zero is a small skincare and wellbeing business based in Nailsworth in the heart of Gloucestershire, with a strong eco-friendly, zero-waste, cruelty-free ethos. Brand Zero sells a range of wonderfully soothing natural skincare, haircare, toothcare and wellbeing products, mostly hand made, with no plastic packaging or harsh chemicals. All our products are 100% natural and packaged in recyclable or compostable tin, paper or glass.
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How environmentalists are killing the planet, destroying the economy and stealing your children's future.
In Watermelons, an updated edition of his ground-breaking 2011 book, James tells the shocking true story of how a handful of political activists, green campaigners, voodoo scientists and psychopathic billionaires teamed up to invent a fake crisis called ‘global warming’.
This updated edition includes two new chapters which, like a geo-engineered flood, pour cold water on some of the original’s sunny optimism and provide new insights into the diabolical nature of the climate alarmists’ sinister master plan.
Purchase Watermelons by James Delingpole here: https://jamesdelingpole.co.uk/Shop/
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Buy James a Coffee at:https://www.buymeacoffee.com/jamesdelingpole
The official website of James Delingpole:https://jamesdelingpole.co.uk
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Here's an exciting event being organised by our friends at the Good Food Project, starring Barbara O 'Neill.
And who doesn't love seeing Barbara O 'Neill?
She's even better in the flesh than she is on screen.
It's really exciting.
She'll be giving some of her health tips at a special four-day event at the Cranage Estate in Cheshire.
From the 20th to 24th of May.
Now, you have to move pretty quickly to get tickets.
There aren't many left for the in-person tickets.
But we can also offer you a 15% discount on virtual tickets if you want to see some of the lectures and short talks.
16 one-hour lectures from Barbara, plus speeches from guest speakers Dr Malcolm Kendrick, Dr Elmar Jung, And Sam Cooper.
And you can stream all the recordings afterwards with no time limits or extra cost.
You get a 15% discount if you use the code DELLINGPOL15.
That's for virtual tickets to this event at Cranjer State in Cheshire.
There are also a few in-person tickets left if you're listening to this podcast, Sharpish.
www.goodfoodproject.co.uk And you'll find the event link at the top of the homepage.
Use the code DELLINGPOL15 for 15% off your virtual ticket to this Barbara O 'Neill event in Cheshire or online.
Global warming is a massive con.
There is no evidence whatsoever that man-made climate change is a problem, that it's going to kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to It's a non-existent problem.
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition of my 2012 classic book, Watermelons, which captures the story of how...
Some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.
It's a shocking story.
I wrote it, as I say, in 2011 actually.
The first edition came out.
And it's a snapshot of a particular era.
The era when the people behind the climate change scan Got caught red-handed, tinkering with the data, torturing till it screamed in a scandal that I helped christen Climategate.
So I give you the background to the skullduggery that went on in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were informing us, we've got to act now.
I rumbled their scan.
I then asked the question, OK, if it is a scan, who's doing this and why?
It's a good story.
I've kept the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end, explaining how it's even worse than we thought.
I think it still stands up.
I think it's a good read.
Obviously I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.
You can buy it from jamesdellingpole.co.uk And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring round all those people who are still persuaded that, oh, it's a disaster, we must amend our ways and appease the gods, appease Mother Gaia.
There we go.
it's a scam.
Welcome to the DelingPod with me, James DelingPod.
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Enjoy.
Welcome to the Delling Pod.
Andy Ross, and welcome back to The Delling Pod, John Hamer.
I am so looking forward to this podcast, because it kind of is my favourite of all the rabbit holes.
Because it's a fun rabbit hole.
I mean, obviously, it probably involves in the basements, in the dumbs, trafficked children, and other...
Horrible stuff.
But...
Antarctica.
It's...
I mean, you've been inspired to write a book about it.
Tell us about your...
Before we go on, just give a quick plug to your book.
Me or you, John?
Andy, go on.
Go on then, me.
Yeah.
Hi there, James.
Yeah, it's Andy here.
Yeah.
Yeah, there you are.
About 18 months ago, James, I'd watched a couple of YouTube videos where people were trying to cross the 60th degree south parallel in either a boat or in an aircraft.
And on both occasions, they were intercepted by military vessels, or military aircraft in the case of the plane, and told that they had to turn round because they were violating protected airspace, contrary to the 1959 Antarctic Treaty.
So I dug a little bit deeper into that, and basically, if they hadn't have turned round, they would have been blown out of the sky, or blasted out of the water.
And I thought...
Well, this is ridiculous.
60 degrees south is not even Antarctica.
It's just like the equivalent of a little bit like the far north of Scotland.
And I thought, well, what is going on here?
So I went down quite a lot of Antarctic rabbit holes.
But then I just came up with an idea in my head.
Well, what would it be like if you were, say, an RAF pilot who was stationed down there with that task?
Of going up, intercepting, talking people around, and if you didn't talk them around, you had to destroy them.
And I was chatting to a good friend of mine, Lauren Stoker, in the pub about it, and he said, well, yeah, let's have a little chat about it and see what kind of plot we can come up with.
Anyway, half an hour later, we had a bit of a synopsis for a story, and everyone we spoke to said, that's intriguing.
But the problem was, I've never written a novel in my life.
Never, ever, ever.
And by this time, I'd come across John's work.
I'd bought a couple of his books.
So I just thought to myself, I'll contact John, see what he thinks, and see if he might be interested in co-authoring it.
So I emailed him.
He came back within about three or four hours and just said, I love the synopsis of the story, Andy.
Let's do it.
And 18 months later, January the 11th, I think it was, 2025, we published it.
And that's basically where the book came from.
Well, I hope that this podcast does a little bit to promoting your book.
Because I tell you, I don't know whether you've been down the publishing industry is run by Satan rabbit hole.
But it is.
It is.
Anything that gets books outside of that system by people like us would be great.
How many have you sold so far?
We've sold in the region of 300 so far.
We've done a couple of podcasts, but this is the third larger-scale podcast that we've done.
We've sold 300.
From my point of view...
The fact that one of my books is in 300 households around the United Kingdom is pretty gratifying.
But the most gratifying thing are the reviews that we've received.
People have absolutely loved the book.
It's full of truth bombs, but it's a cracking good adventure story as well.
And there's a little bit in it for everybody, really.
I haven't read it yet, so I wanted to give my personal endorsement, but I'm looking forward very much to reading it.
It's such a good topic.
By the way, do you think John has been kidnapped?
I think he has been kidnapped, yes.
It's sad, isn't it?
I suppose, really, he knows too much, and they had to get rid of him at some point.
It'll be me in ten minutes' time, I think, James.
So, 60 degrees south.
The book is called 60 Degrees South Beyond the Ice Wall.
And you're saying that the northern equivalent of that, presuming we live on a globe, is Scotland.
Yeah, basically, yeah.
I mean, there's an airbase in Antarctica, and it's an actual airbase.
It's called Rodolfo Teniente Marsh Martin Airbase.
Is that in Chile?
Chilean airbase, yes, it is, yeah.
And this is the airbase that we chose to station these RAF officers.
The latitude south of that airbase is 63 degrees.
Now, that is the equivalent in the northern hemisphere of the Faroe Islands.
That's really not very far north, is it?
It's not very far north.
Yeah, I have.
I've been to Iceland.
Have you?
No, I've been to Svalbard.
Oh, wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's good.
I tell you what.
Yeah, I bet it is.
I bet it is.
Svalbard.
I went to look for polar bears.
Bizarrely, I went on this trip, which was paid for, essentially, by the BBC.
It was their wildlife department, with which I've been at loggerheads for many years.
Bizarrely had me on this 300-mile trip on a skidoo.
We all got given Arctic gear and skidoos.
And we rode for 300 miles round the Svalbard Peninsula looking for polar bears.
Didn't see one.
They'd all been melted by global warming.
Of course they had.
But the bit that really, really struck me when I got there was this radio station in the middle of nowhere.
And there were these huts where you go and stay, and all these signs saying, you know, be very careful.
There could be polar bears anywhere, and they could get you.
And it was the time of year when it was 23 hours, pretty much, of sunlight.
We're getting on for 24 hours.
So I remember at about 3 in the morning, looking across the ice flows towards these mountains in the distance.
And it was weird.
It was very, very weird.
And you were thinking, This is not as it's told to us.
There's something going on here beyond what we're told.
It was like Philip Pullman, the Northern Lights and all that.
Just reading those at the moment, actually.
Yeah.
They're quite good.
He loses it on the third one.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
His anti-Christianity shtick gets a bit wearing after a time.
I think he's a bit of a...
Bit of a wrong one, but yeah.
There were some good bits in it.
Anyway, I just thought, if that weirdness that I saw in the snowy north is anything close to approaching the weirdness that you must get to see in Antarctica.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah, I'm sure so.
Do you reckon...
Sorry, yeah.
I was thinking about...
What we're taught about Antarctica.
And I can't remember whether it's Dellingpole's first law.
I think it might be Dellingpole's second law, which is the more they tell you something, the less likely it is to be true.
So, for example, you think about...
You all have had the same education as me, Andy, because we're of a generation.
We're older.
Probably not as posh as yours, James.
Well, yeah, but you know what?
I think there was...
Maybe, but I think there were certain elements that remained constant.
For example, you will have been brought up learning about Captain Scott.
Oh, absolutely.
And about Titus Oates.
Stuff like, I'm going out.
I may be sometime.
Yeah, yep, yep.
And...
The other ones.
Shackleton as well, of course.
He shouldn't have taken horses.
He should have taken Huskins like Amundsen.
All this stuff.
John, if you're there and you can hear me, it says, John Hamer's mic and cam already in use.
Ask them to close all apps and tabs and refresh.
Can you hear that?
How do we convey that message to him, Andy, if he can't hear us?
Yeah, I can message him again.
Yeah.
Yeah, one second.
While you're messaging him, I'll just complete my thought.
Yeah, please do, yeah.
So we're told all this stuff, and there's even...
There's even stained glass windows in a church, I know, I think, where they're commemorating the heroic sacrifice.
So it's completely rammed down our throats.
Absolutely.
What's the phrase that he ejaculated when he got there?
Great God, this is an awful place.
So we're conditioned, because all young men are told this story.
Probably young women too.
He shouldn't have gone.
Amundsen got there.
He was a doughty Norwegian with his huskies.
Captain Scott, heroic but pointless expedition.
They all died horribly.
Their feet all went black.
Toes all dropped off.
Great God, this is an awful place.
I mean, after that, you're never going to go there again, are you?
You're not going to be tempted to go...
No, you're not.
No, you're not going to be tempted, are you?
No.
And this is the...
I mean, they tell us that the reason that civil airliners don't overfly Antarctica is because the conditions are too harsh.
Yes, that's right.
So, before we go on to what are the things you know, what do we think happened...
To the Scott expedition.
I mean, we know that Antarctica's not always that cold, don't we?
Absolutely.
Well, John's back actually now and he's...
Can you hear us, John?
Yeah, we can.
Ah, there we go.
John, we were just talking about what we know about how people of our generation were brought up to...
We were reared on the story of the heroic and pointless sacrifice of the Scott expedition.
And we know all things like, great God, this is an awful place, and I'm going out for maybe some time.
It was all about kind of public school boys dying with stiff upper lips.
And then the crafty Norwegian gets there first.
I mean, you don't have to die in Antarctica, do you?
That's the myth we've been given, but we know it's not always minus 50 or whatever it was that killed them all.
So what was going on then?
Have you got any theories on that?
It'd have to be, wouldn't it?
Yeah, it'd have to be so, but yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Well, that's it.
They could have been...
I heard on another podcast that Leviathan lives down in Antarctica.
You know, the beast, the sea creature.
Quite possibly.
Leviathan.
Okay.
Yeah, quite possible.
But we do give Scott quite a large section of the book, don't we, John?
That was one of your major contributions.
And the whole Scott story, and Oates in particular, figure quite strongly, don't they?
So without...
I don't want to spoil the book, but...
Yeah.
But so...
You share my suspicions that the whole thing might have been a psyop.
Absolutely.
I mean, particularly given the fact that the whole Scott thing and in similar ways the Shackleton story are so dramatised and they're so lauded and basically they're just magnified way, way, way above.
The characters are glorified, like you say, they're portrayed as these kind of publics.
Public school guys without a care in the world, and if they have to die, they have to die.
If they're going to succeed, they're going to succeed.
But, you know, the whole thing is just dramatised and glorified, beyond belief for me, really.
And my alarm bells start to ring whenever I see something like that, in a similar way to the Titanic story.
Just to introduce another one.
Well, I know.
Well, that's a whole...
John's done a whole...
Sorry?
Sorry?
Oh!
Yep.
And presumably at this point they knew they were gearing up for the First World War because you also had Jekyll Island.
Yep.
It was quite a momentous time, wasn't it?
The creation of the Federal Reserve, the Scott Expedition, the planned World War I, the Titanic.
Yep.
It's almost like they were really trying to mess with people's heads.
The Federal Reserve, creation of the Federal Reserve.
Yeah.
Yep.
Tumultuous times, there really were.
Tumultuous times.
If only we could have their access to their planning notes.
Because something's going on there, isn't it?
Yep.
Thank you.
Oh, blimey!
No, that's...
Oh no, mine says it's still recording.
Yeah, no, mine is, well, it's telling me it's...
Oh, according to mine, it's still recording.
Yeah.
You're doing it on Chrome, aren't you?
Yes.
You're doing it on Chrome.
You're not doing it on Chrome?
Yeah, it likes Chrome.
Can you get Chrome?
Yeah.
I'm on Chrome, James, so I'm having no problems.
I have no logic to Chrome.
I'm sure they're all evil.
No, no, me neither.
Okay, we'll see you in a moment.
Yep.
Okay.
Let's hope he has a bit more luck with that one, James.
Yeah.
So...
Yeah, we were given this massive...
Because I'm thinking, actually, there were few events that were imprinted on our consciousness quite as much as the Scott thing.
I mean, there were others.
The Charge of the Light Brigade was, I suppose, one.
The Titanic, definitely.
And wearing my tinfoil hat, I find that my antennas start twitching.
My bullshit antennae.
Anything that gets...
Because why really, thinking about it, should we care about a bunch of toffs failing to get somewhere and dying?
Well, I mean, look how many people over the years have attempted to climb mountains like K2, Everest, even Mont Blanc, and have perished.
Well, they've just perished, haven't they?
It was just four or five guys who were adventurous and brave, but unfortunately they died.
But we don't have those stories rammed down our throats in film after film and TV series after TV series and book after book.
Yeah, it's very strange.
And I think it's all part of the Antarctic paradigm.
It's all part of the belief system that they want us to have about that continent.
Yeah.
Have you made up your mind yet whether the Antarctic is at the bottom of the globe or do you think it's an ice wall surrounding a flat earth?
Yeah, well, I think both myself and John have both...
Gone down that particular rabbit hole, and I think I'm slightly more categorical in what I think than John is.
I think John's still a little bit open-minded, but what I believe we live on is a realm that is mapped by a map called Gleason's World Map.
Have you heard of that, James?
Yes, I have heard of the Gleason's World Map.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, the Gleason's World Map is an amazing map.
And it was very much the de facto standard map.
I mean, it was in all libraries, all public education centres.
I think it was in schools as well.
And if you look at the Gleason's map, all around the circumference of the Gleason's map is one almighty ice wall.
One mighty ice wall.
And that's what I believe is kind of encasing our realm and holding the waters of our oceans in place.
When was the Gleeson map made?
Who was Gleeson?
I don't know who Gleeson was, but I think it was made.
I've got a copy of it on my wall, actually.
Just behind me.
I think it was 1853.
Something like that.
Something like that.
And interestingly enough, I mean, the Gleeson's world map, if you take the...
The logos of the UN and the World Health Organization and just drop them onto Gleason's world map.
They absolutely fit like a hand in a glove.
It's a complete...
Do they?
Yeah, completely, yeah.
Myself and John are putting together a presentation for doing talks about Antarctica.
And one of the slides is we start with the Gleason's map and then I just overlay it with the UN map.
And then overlay it with the WHO map.
And they fit.
Honestly, I mean, it's not even a close fit.
It's exactly.
Right.
And another interesting thing, sorry, James, about the Gleeson's world map was that Amelia Earhart, who is also given quite a big section of the book, she...
Basically threw away all the standard navigation maps when she was trying to circumnavigate the globe, as she thought it was a globe.
But she was trying to circumnavigate the world, fly all the way around, pretty much, not particularly too far south of the equator and a little bit of it north, but she basically said that to plan her routes, the only map that was reliable was Gleason's world map.
Did she say that?
She did.
Yeah, she did.
And if she was using the traditional charts, she was going off course.
She was going off course.
And interestingly, during World War II, when the Japanese, the Americans, and the Allies were planning, and the Germans, planning sort of intercontinental or across-oceanic war campaigns, they also used Gleason's world map.
Did they?
Yeah, and if you...
Another really interesting thing about Gleason's world map is if you plot even northern hemisphere flight routes, they make absolutely perfect sense on Gleason's world map.
So the Gleason's world map...
So I've seen maps where it's as if they've stripped the paper covering off a globe.
Off a globe, yeah.
What's that called when they do that?
I've no idea.
I've no idea.
But you know what I mean?
You get sort of gaps.
You get gaps.
But the Gleason's map doesn't do that, presumably.
There are no gaps.
I mean, yes.
I mean, somebody, a Globe Earth advocate would say, yes, that's what Gleason's map is.
And, you know, I mean, they may be right, but I don't think they are.
I think Gleason's world map...
Is a map of our realm and how it fits together.
I mean, even, for example, a flight route Paris to Los Angeles, which I've done before.
I mean, you may well have done it yourself.
I know John has.
You take off from Paris, you fly across the North Sea, you fly across Scotland, you can see Iceland, you see Greenland, and all that, and you go over Hudson Bay, and you think, well, yeah.
You plot that on a Gleeson's world map.
It's a straight line.
It's a complete straight line.
Is it?
Yeah, it's a complete straight line.
I have often wondered about this because it's never made...
I've always thought, well, it's just because I'm stupid and I didn't do maths or geography or whatever or physics or whatever you're meant to do.
I think they rely a lot on that for their deception.
They want people to go, well, the reason I'm puzzled by this is because...
I don't have the right training.
I haven't consulted the right experts to tell me.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, there was a concept or an explanation given to me, even at school, was that airliners took what they call great circles.
Have you heard of those?
Great circles.
So a great circle, they say, is the shortest possible route between two points on a globe.
So it's not necessarily a line of latitude or longitude, it's obviously a diagonal, but it kind of uses the curvature of the globe to calculate the shortest route, and they're called great circles.
But it just so happens that the great circles on a Gleason's world map are straight lines.
So John is, when he comes back, he can tell us, you, presumably, Presumably, this is quite a recent thing, you becoming a kind of flat earther.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, I mean, I don't think I've ever been a normie, a proper normie.
I think I was probably similar to yourself, James.
I was probably one foot in normieland, another foot...
Out of Normiland up until 2020 and then the events of 2020, I don't know how many words I can use to describe that on this channel, but completely lifted the top of my head and I just thought something is not right about the world.
But I mean, even before then, I'd sussed out that we'd never went to the moon, I think pretty much NASA.
He's a fake.
And 9-11, I knew about 9-11.
I'd rumbled that even on the day itself.
But after 2020, and obviously with all the time we had in 2020 and 2021, I started looking at all kinds of things.
And one of the...
I watched an absolutely marvellous...
It was on YouTube at the time.
I don't think it's on there now.
It was called The Lost Histories of Flat Earth.
And it was by a guy called Ewanon.
E-W-A-R.
Oh, yeah, I've heard of...
Do you know what?
In my early days, they made a big mistake by giving us all that time, didn't they, to start researching conspiracy theories?
Well, they did me.
They certainly did me, yeah.
I remember lots of people were pressing on me.
You've got to see Ewanon.
Yeah.
I started, but I was A, slightly irritated by the voiceover.
I found the depth of the voice or something irritating.
I thought, who is this guy?
Why is he anonymous?
What's going on here?
And the other thing I found annoying was the persistence and insistence of the flat earthers.
They were really, they were like, you know, you've got to...
If you don't listen to this, you're mad and we understand everything.
And I just wasn't ready for it.
I think you can...
It's like when somebody comes on too strong to you and they fancy you and you're just repelled.
Yeah.
Well, I had completely the opposite reaction to it.
It just completely cast its spell over me.
And I've watched it again and I don't actually...
I don't go along with everything that he says, but he mentions Tartaria, he mentions the position of the stars above our heads and how they rotate, how they are mapped by the astrological clock.
And just basically then talking about things like the never-ending ice wall that nobody's ever been able to circumnavigate.
And from there, I then discovered other people like Eric DeBay, for example, and Flat Earth Dave, and started looking at their broadcasts and videos.
But then I started doing a lot of experiments myself, James.
I've done a lot of Flat Earth experiments myself.
Like what?
Right, well, I'll give you an example.
Have you ever been to Dubrovnik?
No.
Right, okay.
Dubrovnik in Croatia.
Now, it's at the northern end of a bay.
And at the southern end of a bay is a place called Savtat.
And you can see Dubrovnik from Savtat.
Even down at pretty much sea level on the promenade, you can see Dubrovnik.
Now, what I did there was...
I found out what the straight line distance was.
It's 10 miles.
And there is a formula that's accepted.
It's put out by NASA, the scientific community, everybody.
There is a very, very simple curvature formula for the Earth's curvature.
Have you heard that one before at all?
I've heard there's a formula.
And I know there's an excuse they make about refraction.
Yeah, okay, yeah.
Right, well, simply put, the most basic way to describe the formula is you take the number of miles in distance between the two points, you square it, and you times that squared result by 8 inches.
Yeah, so basically, yeah, and I calculated that as a result of that, What I did was I got in the sea at Savtat with my binoculars.
My binoculars were maybe a foot off the surface so I wasn't getting hit by the waves.
And I could see the waves lapping up against the sea wall in Dubrovnik.
Now, the city walls at Dubrovnik are anything up to like 30 metres high.
Now, at the harbour, I think they're about 60 feet high.
All 60 feet of those walls, I could see the rocks at the bottom and I could see the boats in the harbour.
Now, with that curvature, as per the accepted and published and, you know, official formula, should have been 40 feet or so below the horizon.
I should only have been able to see the top part of the city wall.
So that's one experiment I've done.
I was about to say...
Andy, that you seem completely normal, but actually the image of you in the sea at Savtat with your binoculars.
Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Slightly.
I just said I was bird watching.
That's what I said I was doing.
Do you have a wife?
I do have a wife, yeah.
And do you get grief from your wife for this kind of stuff?
No, no, not at all.
She's completely on board with pretty much everything I believe.
You jammy bugger.
I am a jammy bugger.
I am.
Ah.
I am.
You don't realise there's going to be loads of husbands and loads of wives who are listening to this and say, how do you get one of those?
How do you get one of those spouses that don't think you're a freaking nutcase?
Yeah.
Well, I mean, she just loves a conspiracy, does Karen.
She absolutely loves it.
Yeah.
And she's very much a critical thinker.
She likes an easier life than I do.
I mean, she does like, she does have...
I'm taking my foot off the gas.
I'm not looking at anything.
I just want a normal carry-on for a while.
And she'll do that.
She'll regain her kind of equilibrium.
She'll have a bit of a laugh and a bit of a joke.
And then she'll start looking at things again.
Or telling me about things.
So, no, we're completely on the same page.
I wouldn't say she's as convinced about the geography and topography of our realm.
As I am.
But she's certainly extremely sceptical about what we've been told in the past.
It certainly is one of the more outre conspiracy theories.
A lot of so-called conspiracy theorists won't go to flat earth because they can't bear the opprobrium.
And some of them are bought into this idea that Yeah, it's a conspiracy theory that was sowed by the powers that be in order to discredit conspiracy theorists.
But, I mean, I don't see how one can argue with experiments like the one you conducted.
Yeah, well, there's a famous Bedford Levels experiment of the late 19th century where, you know, I can never ever remember that scientist's name, but he went to the Bedford River, I think it's in Cambridgeshire.
Have you ever flown across it, James, in an aeroplane, the Bedford River?
No.
It looks like a huge water-filled runway in the middle of East Anglia when you're flying at about 30,000 feet.
It's a straight rectangular block of water for about nine miles.
And there's a spot there where you can get into...
And what this scientist did, similar to me at Savtat, he got into the water and he could see Welney Bridge, a bridge called Welney Bridge, six miles away.
And he said...
From like two inches above the water on a globe, that just is not possible.
Have you developed a theory about what it is that the sun and the moon do and why they behave in the way?
What are they really?
Yeah, well, I mean, the sun and the moon and the heavenly bodies, we cover all of that in the book and we paint a picture.
A possibility of our realm, how it sits in creation, what spins around it, what moves around it, and what potentially encases it.
Right.
Yep.
And we look at the suns.
We mentioned the moon a little bit.
The suns?
Are there more than one?
Right.
Right, well.
We put the possibility that we may have more than one sun.
Yeah, there is that possibility as well.
I'm not saying that that's...
But as far as the sun that we see on a daily basis, from my point of view, all that's happening is that the sun is moving over us in circular motion, but that it moves seasonally from the southern hemisphere to the northern hemisphere.
So at the moment...
Where are we in April?
We're approaching June.
Hemisphere?
But they're not hemispheres, are they?
No, no, but as far as, okay, let's not say hemisphere.
Let's say north and south.
So in the summer, in the summer, but even if you're like on a Gleason's...
On a Gleason's world map, you've still got the Tropic of Cancer, you've still got the equator, and you've got the Tropic of Capricorn.
It's just that they're just circles around a central point, that central point being the North Pole.
Right.
So the central point, from my understanding of my flat Earth, Belief system is that the North Pole is a central point and the Arctic Circle, which is 66.6 degrees north, quite interestingly, is one circle around that point.
And the Tropic of Cancer, which is 23.6, 23.4.
Check that away from...
90 degrees, 66.6.
There you've got another one, a lot more sixes.
And the equator, obviously, is 90. So, what I believe is that in our winter, the sun is revolving around the Tropic of Capricorn.
And that's the same on a globe model as well, but that it moves closer and closer and closer to the pole, and by our summer, it's revolving around the Tropic of Cancer.
So therefore it's nearer to us in the north.
And then it moves away again.
I mean, that happens on a globe.
That's the globe.
But it works just equally as well on a flat earth map as it does on a globe.
Do you think John is ever going to come back?
I don't think he is, James.
I really don't think he is.
I think he's given...
I don't know.
I don't know.
I'll just see if he's left me a message.
Had to give up.
He says his computer's knackered.
Well, we'll carry on, Andy.
I mean, you're more than capable of holding your own.
Thank you.
A little bit new to this, James, but, you know, doing the best.
No, no, no.
Actually, tell me about yourself.
What's your background?
Right, well, my background is I've lived in Yorkshire all my life, as you can probably tell from my accent.
I was born in Bradford, brought up in a very, very working class.
I would say working class parents with middle class aspirations.
But middle class aspirations as far as things like art and knowledge and education rather than...
Acquisition of goods and wealth.
They were both really into classical music.
Very, very staunch Church of England Christians.
So I was brought up in a very, very Christian home.
Incredibly Christian home.
And then educated in state primary schools.
I didn't do it.
I never went to university.
I left school after all levels, got a job in IT and worked in IT for 30 years before the corporate world just suddenly, I don't know, I just became aware of what the corporate world was.
That was back in 2009 and just packed the whole thing in, just stepped away from the corporate world.
And myself and my wife have been self-employed since.
And do you ever ask yourself, as so many awake people do, what it was that enabled you to see stuff that so many people haven't been able to see?
Yeah, I mean, I ask myself that question all the time.
I remember when I was in the corporate world, I mean, the first thing that I noticed about the corporate world was that it was starting to spoil it.
I mean, I worked in IT in the 80s and 90s, and boy, it was brilliant fun.
It was great fun.
You know, we were trusted, we were well-paid, we were respected, and then the HR department was invented.
Yes, HR!
Right?
That is where the rot began.
Corporate bully department, yeah?
Staffed mainly by meddlesome ratbag women.
Yes.
You say meddlesome ratbag women, but often it's young women.
Young women.
There was nearly always a male manager, but their foot soldiers were young, meddlesome ratbag women mainly.
Vicious.
Incredibly vicious.
And that was what opened my eyes to what was happening both corporately and within government as well.
And by 2009, I'd just had enough.
I was only 49, so I wasn't near retirement age, but I just thought, I can't deal with this anymore.
I'm out of here.
Yeah.
Luckily, I was out of the normie job sector by that time.
But I had a brief, brief taste of it when the Telegraph, Had launched these Telegraph blogs.
And there was a period where Telegraph blogs were kind of the place to go for these alternative voices.
So the platform of the Telegraph, the sort of cachet such as it had, was used to recruit a bunch of talented bloggers and stuff.
I mean, I probably, looking back, I probably was the most out there.
But there was a very brief period where you felt like you were pioneering new territory.
You could say what you wanted, unedited.
And then I remember suddenly one was given the impression that this woman, this girl, I mean, frankly, a child almost, in the Telegraph's HR department, Had some say in one's personal behaviour or views or whatever.
And you're thinking, hang on a second.
I'm a blogger.
I'm producing blogs.
What has this got to do with you?
Exactly.
What does anything I say or think have to do with you?
You are a nothing.
And this girl...
It was very weird.
I hadn't seen it before.
I hadn't experienced it before, but I can imagine it must have been awful when it started happening.
Yeah, terrible, yeah.
And I think that is so typical now.
When you look back, you say, well, I know where all that was leading now.
Where that was leading was to...
What's the word?
To demodelise people, to make people have less esteem, to make people be less outspoken and opinionated and just less human.
Yes.
Yeah, which is...
Like I say, by 2009, I couldn't stand it any longer.
I mean, it drove me to the depth of despair.
It really did.
I'm glad you found a way out.
Yep.
And I'm thinking, we should go back to Antarctica, not because that subject isn't interesting.
Yeah, that's fine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, what do you reckon?
So, you brought up a Christian?
I was.
Are you a slow Christian?
Well, no, I'm not, actually.
Ah, interesting.
No, I'm not.
I mean, I was a churchgoer until 2007.
I was in the Church of England, but to be honest, James, I saw the Church of England go in the same way as the corporate world.
Oh, definitely.
All the churches, pretty much.
Yeah, and I just thought, well, what's going on at work?
Is going on here as well.
And all the joy of going to church on a Sunday was just gradually being diminished and diminished and diminished.
And people were just coming away from church, just feeling a sense of self-loathing, low esteem, that we're not worthy, that we're just miserable sinners.
You saw this happening to Christian congregations.
And I just said to Karen, there was a particular occasion where we were at church and the vicar said, I want everybody to stand up who is going to witness to their next door neighbour this week and try and get them to come to church next week.
And there were three people in the church that didn't stand up.
Me, an old lady, because I'm not sure she could stand up, and my wife and Karen.
And we stayed sat down.
Despite all the pressure of standing up.
And then when everybody sat down again and they started the next hymn, I just said to Karen, we're out of here.
We left during the hymn and we've never been to church since, apart from weddings and funerals.
That's really interesting.
I mean, I wouldn't want to evangelize too much, but I would say that at the risk of being seen as being an evangelical, I'd say your problem is with the church, not with Christianity.
Yeah, well, yeah.
I mean, one of my other problems, the thing that I always struggled, the thing that both myself and Karen struggled with was if God is the most perfect thing that has ever existed, And he is a complete and 100% genuine, wonderful being.
Why does he want people to worship him?
That's always been my bugbear.
I don't know if I've articulated that, but that's always been my bugbear.
It's a really good one.
I don't know.
I mean, he moves in mysterious ways, doesn't he?
And that's what stops me.
He likes to be appreciated.
You're right.
You're absolutely right.
There is definitely a very important, much stress is placed on the importance of worship.
He likes being worshipped.
And the impression I'm getting on my Christian journey It says it in all the Psalms.
They're all about praising him.
I'm just thinking here.
Unless you accept fully the implications that he Created you.
And everything that springs from God.
So, for example, I've noticed in the Old Testament, he gets really quite peeved when humans think that they can defeat their enemies on their own.
Yep.
I've just been reading a bit in Chronicles about that.
Oh, Ahab, for example.
Ahab wants to go and defeat a neighbouring tribe.
And Jehoshaphat, who's the king of Judah, Ahab's king of Israel.
Have you checked with God on this one?
And he says, no, but I've checked with all the other...
Loads of prophets say that...
And he said, yeah, but have you checked with a prophet with access to God?
And he says, well, there's one.
There's one guy, and he always says things I don't like.
So I tend not to consult him.
And Jehoshaphat says, well, you've got to go and see this guy, because he's the one with the direct line to God.
All the others, they could be just talking rubbish.
So anyway, it turns out that it's not a good idea for Ahab to go on this quixotic mission.
To fight this other tribe, because it turns out that Ahab's going to get killed, as he does.
So, yeah, I suppose I'm confirming what you say.
But it sort of doesn't jar with me.
It does jar with me.
What doesn't jar with me, though, is the biblical references to the creation.
That's what doesn't jar.
And we've built a lot of that into 60 degrees south beyond the ice wall.
And there's a quote from Genesis in the actual book itself.
Let's see if I can find it.
Yeah, here we go.
And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament.
Genesis chapter 1 verse 7. Yeah.
Do you think...
Above the firmament, there's more water and the stars sort of...
Where do you think stars are?
Where do I think stars are?
I haven't completely made my mind up either about what is above the firmament or what is...
I mean, the stars could be below the firmament.
Yeah, but what I mean is, are you with me that it's waters above the firmament?
Well, If you think about what we're told, what we're told from a very early age by our educational system, we're told that it's a complete vacuum above the Earth, but there's no firmament.
Now, but I remember in physics, I mean, I wasn't a scientist like you, James.
No, no, I wasn't a scientist.
I was English.
You know, I was arts.
English was my main subject, yeah.
But I remember in physics doing experiments on vacuums.
Where we'd have a chamber and we would drain all the atmosphere out of that chamber and create a vacuum.
Now, the second that that...
And to separate that vacuum from our atmosphere required an impenetrable barrier.
The moment that that barrier was broken, the atmosphere is equalised and the vacuum was no more.
Yes, totally.
Now, how does...
If there is a vacuum above us, The vacuum of space.
At what point does the vacuum stop and atmosphere start?
According to all experiments I did at school, it had to be an impenetrable barrier.
Similarly, if there's waters up there, we need an impenetrable barrier.
Because the water will find the tiniest leak and start dripping through.
Although that could be rain.
It could be rain, yeah, yeah.
I mean, according to the Bible, it's waters.
And if you look up at the sky, and, you know, the beautiful blue sky when we can see it, when they've been chemtrailing the buggery out of us.
I like that phrase.
Yeah, thank you.
That definitely, you know, could well be water, couldn't it?
Could well be water.
I think so.
And so, what do you think is beyond the ice wall?
Right, okay.
Well, we're bringing Admiral Byrd into the book quite a bit.
I don't know if you've looked into Admiral Richard E. Byrd.
A bit?
I think he's a great subject.
Oh, a fascinating subject.
I mean, Byrd was probably the most, well, certainly the most lauded polar explorer.
He explored the polar regions, the Arctic and the Antarctic regions.
He overflew them and things like that.
When was this?
This was in the 20s and 30s, mainly in the 30s, leading up to the years before World War I. Interestingly enough, he was also asked by the Germans in about 1936 if he would assist them in their exploration of Antarctica.
Because they ended up annexing an area of Antarctica, Queen Maudland from Norway, and they renamed it New Schwabenland.
Okay.
Yep, and...
Was there a fuss made about this?
I mean, there hasn't been a big fuss made in the history books, but when you look at it, I mean, Bird...
Turned down there, they asked him if they would help him, because he was by this time an admiral by the time this was going on, a naval admiral, and I think he was too busy doing all his other US admiral duties, turned them down.
The Germans went and did what they did in Antarctica.
But the interesting thing about Bird was that, as well as all his independent exploration that he did in the early to mid-1980s, After the Second World War, he took a fleet to Antarctica under the name Operation High Jump.
I don't know if you've heard of that.
Yeah, right.
That was in 1946 to 1947.
Now, it had some very, very kind of bland...
Aims and scope within this operation.
Things like, oh, we want to check the capability of aircraft at cold temperatures and helicopters and icebreakers and all of this kind of thing.
But he took down there one humongous flotilla of military ships and planes in 1946-47.
Oh, I think I've seen footage from Operation High Jump.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, Basically, the whole thing was cancelled, or was cut short, and they suffered quite a few losses, primarily of aircraft and helicopters.
Did they?
Yeah, and in 1954, Bird gave a famous interview on a Longines Watches documentary.
I think Longines used to do these scientific, kind of like lecture documentaries in the 50s on American TV.
And Bird, in 1954, said, In fact, I'll tell you exactly what he said because it's in the book.
He said, But strangely enough, there is left in the world today an area as big as the United States that's never been seen by human beings.
And that's beyond the pole on the other side of the South Pole.
Now, that was seen by millions and millions of Americans.
Two years later, at the age of about 67, 68, he died of a heart attack.
One year after that, NASA was formed.
And a year after that, the Antarctic Treaty was signed.
Okay.
So, he's...
You think they bumped him off?
Well, I'm not saying that, James, but I mean, it has been done, hasn't it?
I mean, one of the things that he also said was that when he overflew this land, the land beyond the ice wall and got down to the South Pole, he discovered an area that was completely free of ice and was a lot warmer than the area, say, from the Antarctic Circle down to 90 degrees.
Occasionally, Admiral Byrds.
I wanted to find out what he saw.
And it's quite hard to...
Do you think a lot of it's been scrubbed?
Well, I think a lot of it's been scrubbed, but I think a lot of it...
I mean, I put a lot of credence in what he said in that 1954 interview.
But...
After his death, his son published his diaries.
Now, his diaries are a little bit far-fetched.
For most people, his diaries would be really far-fetched.
I mean, in his diaries, he claims that he found this fertile area.
He could see mammoths walking around.
His plane was taken over remotely and he was landed at an airstrip and confronted by these people that were much taller than him.
And then he discussed things with them for a couple of hours and was then allowed to return.
Now that's in his diaries, but he never said that by word of mouth in any interviews.
People don't make stuff up in diaries.
Well, I mean, the thing is, I just wonder whether his diaries were put out as maybe a ploy just so we all think he was a bit of a nutjob.
Oh, I see.
You mean just that they were doctored?
Yeah, yeah.
To discredit what he said in the interviews, yeah.
I mean, another interesting thing was that when he returned from Operation High Jump, he was debriefed by the US Secretary of Defense, a guy called James Forrestal.
And Forrestal was gobsmacked by what Bird told him.
And said, it's about time we went public with this and told the US population really what is down there and just stopped deceiving them.
Now, that was in 1947.
Not long after that, I can't remember if it was 1948, Bird went very quiet after that.
You don't really hear much of Bird then, from 1947, 1948, through to his TV interview in 1954.
But in the meantime, Forrestal was stripped of his position, By the US President, I think it was Truman.
He was certified insane, committed to Bethesda Mental Hospital in Maryland, and on the 2nd of May 1949, I think it was, he fell 13 floors to his death from his bedroom window with his dressing gown cord tied round his neck.
It happened.
It could easily happen.
Of course.
Yeah, of course it can.
That's interesting.
So, apart from Bird, has anyone else been there and reported back?
Well, I mean, you've got the whole Shackleton thing as well, which, I mean, I treat all that as just a glamorised pinch of salt.
I think it makes great boys' own reading, the Shackleton thing, but that was round about the Captain Scott period.
But, I mean, you don't hear of...
Anybody now, don't you?
There's basically been no highly publicised explorations of Antarctica since Bird, since Operation High Jump.
No, no.
They've kept it very secret.
Yeah, yeah.
What do you think about those expeditions that were very sort of prominent-y?
We announced we're going to Antarctica.
What do you think those are all about?
Dumbs?
Well, it could well be, couldn't it?
I mean, if you compare that to when Joe Public goes on an Antarctic cruise, I mean, a mate of mine has been on an Antarctic cruise and he's always banging on about, oh, I've been to Antarctica.
Well, no, you haven't, have you?
No, you've not been to Antarctica.
Because Antarctic cruises...
These ones, I mean, they cost a fortune.
They go to the South Shetland Islands, which are 63, 64 degrees south.
Well, that's the equivalent, like I said earlier, of going to the Faroe Islands.
So they're not in Antarctica.
All they're being shown is a little glimpse of the Antarctic Peninsula.
That's what they're being shown.
But I believe that the...
The powers that shouldn't be, or the Illuminati, or Cabal, or whoever we, you know, members of that particular clan, I think they're going down there all the time.
I think there's, there are things down there that they just would, I mean, why would they protect it just for a few penguins, really?
I mean, why would they?
They are very attractive, though, Emperor Penguins.
Yeah, they are.
Well, Emperor Penguins are pretty cute, aren't they?
And they're clever, aren't they?
And they're canny, aren't they?
And they make good wildlife documentaries.
They do.
And actually, no, I was about to say good cartoons.
No, they're appalling.
Happy Feet is one of the worst experiences of my life.
I've not had that experience.
No, it's horrible.
Don't, don't.
It's like, I don't know.
Things you don't do, like putting your hand on the hot rings on an electric hob.
Don't do it.
Don't watch.
Or as a four-year-old child, putting your hand up a mangle on a washing machine.
You see, that's the thing.
It's just like, it's so tempting, isn't it?
I did it.
I did it.
I remember.
We didn't have a mangle, but I remember looking at those rings, those tempting rings.
Oh, I must do it.
I must.
Well, I did!
I know it's bad, but...
And it ripped my hand apart.
Yeah.
Maybe we've just...
We've found out why it is that we are the way we are.
I know, I know.
We're bloody stupid.
Yeah, we are, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, what do you think?
There must be a bit like on the Truman Show, where you get deep into this American-sized continent, and then you must reach the edge.
Right.
Yeah, well, I mean, again, another...
We've got a quote from the Tooman show in the introduction to the book.
By Christoph, we accept the reality of the world with which we're presented.
It's as simple as that.
Yeah, so what we're trying to do within the book is to kind of say to people, yeah, you can actually look beyond...
That paradigm and ask questions and possibly venture further, if only by reading the book and within your own imagination.
But yeah, I mean, beyond the ice wall is obviously what we're told is the continent of Antarctica.
But it could well be a Truman Show-style edge of a firmament.
Yeah, where you would sail up to it if it was ocean-bound, or you would maybe take a sled across to it, across the ice, and then, just like Truman did, just knock on it.
Yeah.
Knock on it.
I was wondering whether that brought down some of the helicopters and planes, whether they bashed into the...
Yeah, well, I mean, we did a podcast a few months ago.
It wasn't really a podcast.
It was kind of like an open forum, James.
So they had a lot of people signed in asking questions.
So it was a bit of a discussion forum.
And one of the people who'd signed in said that they'd heard that beyond something like 75 degrees south, aeroplanes weren't allowed to fly above 17,000 feet.
Yeah.
You know, so I thought, well, that's an interesting concept, isn't it?
Now, that's an interesting thing.
Now, I'd never heard that, and I've not been able to ratify it either, but I thought, well, that's an interesting one to be thrown into the debate.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, in these forums, did you find people who really know their stuff?
I mean, anybody who's looked at the works of Eric Dubé, for example, or Flat Earth Dave, I mean, they must have spent, you know, years, well, they have, they've spent years in research.
The only thing is, I think that their limited hangout, or I've heard that both...
They could be.
Flat Earth Dave and Eric Dubé.
Eric Dubé certainly is there to...
Oh, he's very anti-Christian, for example, which I always think is a tell.
Well, yeah, I mean, the thing is that I, I mean, one of the things that I've, from my, I mean, and even looking at what people like DeBay and Vice say, To me, it just points 100% at intelligent design, that we live in something that's been intelligently designed by a creator.
And I just think that's indisputable when you look at it.
As opposed to this random Big Bang creation model.
That's not going to work, is it?
No, it's nonsense.
It's nonsense.
In the same way that I believe evolution's nonsense as well.
I've always thought that.
I've always thought evolution was nonsense.
Evolution is total bollocks.
It's so obviously bollocks when you think about it.
But most people don't think because we're told what we're told and we believe what we're told.
Yeah, yeah.
And so, I mean, as far as like the, you know, what we're...
What we're given, what we're created under or in.
I believe that what we live on, I mean, we are told that the vacuum of space is infinite and goes on forever, aren't we?
That's what we're told at school.
Yeah.
Now, when I say to people, well, actually, that might not be the case.
What we might live on is an eternal flat plane that just runs on forever and ever and ever.
Flat, totally flat.
Left, right.
Up, down, diagonally, everywhere.
This huge flat plain.
And all we are is a little snow dome somewhere on that flat plain.
That is so weird.
I was about to say those words, that we live in a snow dome.
It's like, who invented the snow dome?
They're telling, they offer us little clues.
Well, they do.
I mean, look at the Tooman Show is a snow dome, isn't it?
And they told you on the Simpsons movie as well, when Springfield got enclosed by the...
Yeah.
They know.
But people say to me, well, how can a flat plane go on and on and on forever?
And I say, well, in the same way that a vacuum can or cannot go on forever, we cannot get our heads around something going on forever.
But if it's possible for a vacuum to go on forever, it's possible for waters, heavenly waters to go on forever.
It's possible for a rock plain to go on forever.
And it's even possible that we've got other things below and above us.
We could live in a beehive.
We could even live in a beehive of planes.
Oh, Hollow Earth.
Well, possibly.
It's not something I've looked into, but from our viewpoint, I think we live on a flat plane, we've got a snow dome, and then potentially there are other snow domes beyond our snow dome.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, no, I think...
I think this is it.
I think we're it.
Well, you think we're it?
Yeah, well, that's possible, but I'm not ruling out that there may be others, but it may be us.
It might still be human beings, just like us, but we live in a country.
We live in a different country to somebody else.
Other people live in a different continent to us.
Maybe that there's other people who just live in another snow dome.
Do you think that...
This is probably the most important question I'm going to ask you.
Do you think David Bowie is now living in Antarctica?
Well, I mean...
It's really funny.
I wanted to bring David Bowie into the book, James.
I did.
Did you?
Yeah, I did.
Yeah, I did consider that.
But we brought in a lot of other people from, you know, entertainment, politics, science, who've visited these areas beyond the ice wall.
So we do bring those in.
But, I mean, the thing with David Bowie was, the thing that freaked me out completely was that interview on, I think it was on Sky, like a couple of days after he'd been.
After he died?
Yeah.
And there's that guy on there claiming to be kind of head of his fan club.
It was just the weirdest thing, wasn't it?
It was just the weirdest thing.
So obviously him having a laugh.
Yeah.
Amelia Earhart, was there some sort of weird relationship she had with Kennedy and with JFK and Bird?
Yeah, well, I mean, Bird himself was a...
A close confidant and ally of John F. Kennedy and shared a lot of his beliefs.
So also was James Forrestal.
Forrestal was very much a JFK-ite.
And Amelia Earhart, I mean, I didn't know this until I started looking into both characters.
Because Amelia Earhart has a big part to play in the book as well.
She does.
Amelia Earhart, if you go on, even just on Google Images, you can find images online of Earhart in kind of social and also maybe formal settings with Admiral Byrd.
And they were really, really good friends.
Now, one of the things that Earhart told Byrd was that when, because she suspected strongly before she commenced her final flight to try and circumnavigate the Earth, She told Bird that she had grave concerns about the topography and geography of the world, and she was going to find out, and she was going to spill the beans when she got back.
Now, what happened was, she got most of the way round, I think she'd done something like 22,000 miles, she had three legs to go, and she left an airfield in a place called Lai, or L-A-E, in Papua New Guinea, and she was never seen again.
Now, the last radio contact that people had with her, she said, we are running north to south.
We are running north to south.
And then nothing else was heard from her.
What does that mean?
Right, well, she should have been going.
She was going east to west.
She was going from the...
She was going round the world in a west to east direction.
So she was heading from Ley...
Across Pacific Islands, Hawaii, and then to try and get back to Los Angeles or somewhere like that.
So she should have been going kind of like north, east, northeast.
I don't know what I am running north to south means, but all I'm saying is that was the last broadcast that she had.
So there are all kinds of theories about what happened to her on that last flight.
Some people claim she was captured by the Japanese.
Because it was just a couple of years before World War II.
And there are other theories that state maybe she'd gone to Antarctica to take a look.
Right.
Poor Amelia.
Poor Amelia.
Yeah, yeah.
And she was with her companion, Fred Noonan, who was a disgraced Pan Am flight engineer, apparently.
I didn't ask.
I thought she was silly.
So she had a...
Yeah, she had a guy called Fred Noonan.
Now, what's really interesting is that Fred Noonan got divorced in either 36 or early 37 and then instantly fell in love with a completely unknown woman called Mary.
I cannot remember her surname now.
It's in the book, but I can't remember her name.
A lady called Mary and got married to her.
Very interestingly, for me, Amelia Earhart's middle name is Mary.
So, you know, maybe there's something going on there as well.
Who knows?
But yes, she was not alone.
She was with a guy called Fred Noonan when she disappeared.
Yes, his name has been lost to history, hasn't it, really?
Yeah, yeah.
Completely, yeah.
It's just what they choose to message you with.
Well, I think part of that also is to try to say, well, she was such a pioneering, empowering woman, you know, and she was doing all this on her own, despite, you know, she didn't need guys, but, well, she needed Fred Noonan to navigate for her.
She did.
And to be the flight engineer.
I was looking at the list of topics that we were going to cover, because John...
Remember him, that poor old John?
Yeah, I do remember him.
I think he's been lost over Antarctica.
Yeah, well, yeah.
Well, he's in Stroud, isn't he?
And he once got cancelled in Stroud.
It's not a good place for him, isn't Stroud.
Oh, I've had good times in Stroud, although I recognise there was a very strong contingent of kind of loons, of enemy loons, as opposed to friendly loons.
Yeah, he was once stopped from giving a presentation there by...
By the, you know, by the being mob.
So he hasn't, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do you think that there are, do you go along with this idea that there are people living, you know, like giants or whatever?
Yeah, it's quite possible.
It's quite possible.
I mean, if you look back at ancient architecture, you look at the size of doors in...
Old, what a lot of us now call Tartarian type architecture.
You go to York Minster, the size of the door at York Minster, it's just vast.
All these buildings with 10-foot ceilings.
I mean, I live close to Harrogate, and Harrogate's got some wonderful old housing and architecture.
And one thing that's really common there in Harrogate is the size of the doors and the heights of the ceilings.
Now, why would they put 12-foot ceilings in houses when an 8-foot ceiling would suffice?
Well, yeah.
Yeah, so I believe that we, you know, we may, these people, we may have been, you know, our earth may have been, our realm may have been inhabited by much taller people than we are.
Yeah, and who knows, the remnants of those people may be beyond the ice wall, may well be there.
Right.
Well, you see, in my book, these would be the descendants of the Nephilim.
Nephilim, yeah.
That's another possibility, yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's...
This is why I find the Bible quite a reliable guide to all this stuff.
I mean, as I said, I don't have your problem about the God that likes being worshipped, it seems to me, a sort of fair part of the deal.
But yeah, I mean, the Nephilim.
Well, look, we know, do we not, that the Smithsonian Institute, now there's a dodgy institution.
The Smithsonian has been systematically...
Destroying or hiding the skeletons of giants that have been found all over the US and elsewhere.
And then there's Gilgamesh.
Do you know about Gilgamesh's tomb?
No.
That's a good rabbit hole.
That's another of my favourite rabbit holes.
That's one for you to look at.
Andy, I must say, you have really, really wetted, because I bet you've put a lot of your research into the book.
Quite a bit, yeah.
Quite a bit, but the main thing is it's an adventure story.
It's got high drama, it's got military combat, it's got a bit of romance in it, but it hasn't got much fantasy in it.
It's all kind of grounded.
It's all true.
I'm not saying it's all true, but there's no kind of strange magical portals in it or anything like that.
They do in the bookies.
And I'm not even discounting the fact that there may be portals.
There are portals.
You don't know about the portals?
I do know about portals, yeah.
Do you know about the portals that can only be opened by singing the right songs?
Oh, I didn't know that.
Oh, you didn't know about that?
Oh, no, no.
There are these portals that are only accessible by submarine.
This is where Leviathan lives.
And you have to sing special songs to open the portals.
Oh!
Hey, that's good.
I like singing.
That'd be good.
Oh, yeah.
There you go.
I mean, an interesting one about portals was my daughter lives in Switzerland on the shores of Lake Zurich.
And 18 months ago, two years ago, just in the summer of 23, she sent us a WhatsApp message saying, Dad, we've seen this ridiculous thing in the air above Lake Zurich.
And basically, it looked like a door, a rectangular door.
Hanging about 250, 300 feet in the air.
And it stayed there for half an hour.
And everybody who was at the...
Her town has a Lido by the lake.
And the Lido was full of people.
It was a weekend.
They were all staring up at it.
And none of them filmed it.
Or photographed it.
I said, Sarah, where's the film?
Where's the photo?
She went, we were just so transfixed by it, we never thought about it.
Anyway...
Anyway, so I went online and people had videoed it.
People had videoed this thing.
And it was hanging completely stationary above Lake Zurich for the best part of half an hour.
It looked like a kind of a door stroke barrel kind of thing.
It never wavered in the wind.
And Sarah said it was quite a breezy day.
And helicopters then started circling around it for a while.
And then it just disappeared.
I'm going to have to look for this video.
If I can find it, James, I'll send you it.
Send it, please.
I'd like to see this.
Yeah, yeah.
But my daughter saw that.
And my daughter is pretty normie.
She's pretty normie, my daughter.
Yeah.
That's great.
Yeah.
She'll think...
I mean, I'm worried about her reading the book, actually, because of what she'll think of me.
But yeah, so that's where she is.
But yeah.
Daughters, in my experience, think their dads are a bit shit.
Yeah, of course.
My son's alright.
My son thinks I'm alright, but yeah.
Oh, that's good.
Yeah, he's all over everything is my son, which is good.
That's nice.
So you've got the wife and the son on board, at least, and the daughter.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And loads of friends as well.
Loads of friends as well around the area.
Yeah, there's a very strong group.
Is Harrogate a hotbed of...
Well, no, I don't live in Harrogate.
I live in Addingham, which is near Ilkley.
I don't know if you've ever been to Ilkley.
It's...
You go Bartat, don't you?
Bartat, Ilkley, more Bartat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I live near Ilkley, yeah.
And, yeah, there's a real big group of...
Basically, it started in 2021 with Stand in the Park.
Yeah.
So when everybody was, you know, cacking their pants, stopping at home and, you know, frightened to death of seeing anybody or touching anybody or hugging anybody, we were stood in the park all having a really good laugh on a Sunday morning.
Hugging each other and giving, kissing each other and hugging each other more than we ever should have done, you know.
That's great.
And it's gone on from there.
It's gone on from there.
Yeah.
Oh.
Well, a big shout out to the Ilkley posse.
We call ourselves the Quirdenkers.
The Quirdenkers.
Which means critical thinkers in German.
Does it?
Quirdenker?
Yeah, Quirdenker.
Quirdenker.
Actually, that's quite a good...
What do you do, James?
I'm a Quirdenker.
Quirdenker, yeah.
Andy, thank you so much for your insights.
I'm sorry.
It happens, doesn't it?
It does happen, yeah.
Got tossed out of a 13th floor window, or got left to the Giants, or got eaten by Leviathan.
Yeah, yeah.
All those are possible.
In Stroud, anyway.
In Stroud.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Thank you, Andy.
Can I just give the website a little plug?
Yeah, I think you should do.
Yeah, well, we've created a website for the book, and the website is 60-degrees-south.com.
I will put a link so that people can purchase this thrilling semi-fiction.
Yeah, well on there, there's actually a three or four chapter preview that they can read.
So if they can read that for free, if they think it's a load of bollocks, they don't have to buy the book.
You can't say fairer than that, can you?
If they're energised and they think, oh, I want to read more, then they can click on buy the book and buy it from us.
And if they buy it from us either through John's website, they'll get a signed copy.
Excellent.
Thank you, Andy.
Thank you, John, for your brief...
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