David Kurten is the leader of the Heritage Party, which he founded in October 2020. A keen writer and speaker, he has contributed to publications such as The Conservative Woman and Breitbart and frequently appears at political events. He advocates for free speech, traditional values, national sovereignty, and financial responsibility.↓ ↓ ↓If you need silver and gold bullion - and who wouldn't in these dark times? - then the place to go is The Pure Gold Company. Either they can deliver worldwide to your door - or store it for you in vaults in London and Zurich. You even use it for your pension. Cash out of gold whenever you like: liquidate within 24 hours. https://bit.ly/James-Delingpole-Gold
↓ ↓ ↓How environmentalists are killing the planet, destroying the economy and stealing your children's future.
In Watermelons, an updated edition of his ground-breaking 2011 book, JD tells the shocking true story of how a handful of political activists, green campaigners, voodoo scientists and psychopathic billionaires teamed up to invent a fake crisis called ‘global warming’.This updated edition includes two new chapters which, like a geo-engineered flood, pour cold water on some of the original’s sunny optimism and provide new insights into the diabolical nature of the climate alarmists’ sinister master plan.Purchase Watermelons (2024) by James Delingpole here: https://jamesdelingpole.co.uk/Shop/Products/Watermelons-2024.html↓ ↓ ↓
Buy James a Coffee at:https://www.buymeacoffee.com/jamesdelingpole
The official website of James Delingpole:https://jamesdelingpole.co.uk
x
Welcome to The Delling Pod with me, James Dellingpole.
And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest.
But before we meet him, a quick word from one of our sponsors.
The gold price has been going up again.
Why am I not surprised?
I'm not a financial advisor, thank goodness.
But I think...
At this time, in these dark times, you'd be mad not to have at least some physical gold and maybe some physical silver too in what you might describe as, if you're ambitious, your portfolio.
Gold and silver, if you'd bought them when I first started talking about them, you'd have made a tidy profit by now.
And if you'd bought them In the form of coins of sovereigns and you're a UK citizen, you wouldn't even have to pay capital gains on your profits because they count as legal tender.
As I had to explain to my bemused accountant the other day, the place to go for physical gold and silver, you don't want paper gold and paper silver, the place to go is the Pure Gold Company.
They will either Deliver your coins or your bars direct to your doorstep or they will store them for you in their vaults in London or in Zurich in Switzerland.
You can also have gold as part of your pension and if you want to sell it quickly they will do so for you very quickly.
So that's the Pure Gold Company.
And you will find the hyperlink to their website at the bottom of this podcast because I'm part of their affiliate program.
I'm not pushing their product because I think it's dodgy.
I own gold.
I own silver.
And in the form of bullion, I think you'd be mad not to have them.
It's quite difficult storing them at home.
I tend to go for the vault option.
But yeah, if you've got a good hiding place, why not?
Especially when it all kicks off and you're going to need something tradable to buy your potatoes and rice.
Anyway, go to the Pure Gold Company using the affiliate link hyperlink at the bottom of this podcast.
David Curtin, welcome.
Welcome back to The Delling Pod.
Good to see you.
Thanks, James.
Yeah, good to be back and join you again.
It's been a while, but yeah, you're doing great stuff.
Well, so are you.
I was inspired to invite you back because somebody posted up that fantastically horrible interview chat thing you did with Ian Dale.
Do you remember that?
About Ukraine.
Yeah, I do remember.
That was in the general election campaign of 2024. Yeah, so about six months ago from when we're recording, yeah.
So that was on LBC, which is the London radio station, which is owned by Global, I think, which is a very, very sinister...
Dodgy organisation.
They own all the billboards in the London underground.
And, I mean, I've always thought LBC is so...
such a sort of cabal radio station, isn't it?
It's bizarre because about ten years ago they used to have some decent people on.
I mean, they used to have...
Katie Hopkins on, I think even Nigel Farage at one time, but that was a long time ago, and now they're completely the opposite.
Yeah, you're right.
It's a cabal operation, and when I went on, they just wanted to destroy me.
That was their purpose, or that was Ian Dale's purpose, it seems.
It was.
I mean, you were making some very reasonable points about any informed person.
Would make about the Ukraine and they would talk about, as you did, about the 2014 colour revolution that was carried out by the deep state and deposed the the legitimately elected president of the Ukraine and replaced him with a kind of a stooge in the pocket of Of the West, of NATO and stuff.
And you were just pointing this stuff out.
And instead of being given a fair hearing, you were just...
Trash.
You were accused of being a Putin apologist, I remember.
Yeah, Putin puppet.
That's what they say, you know, just to smear you and take you down as much as possible.
And, you know, he said, oh, he didn't have anything good to say.
He didn't have any argument or reason to come back to add to the discussion.
He just said, that's disgusting.
That's deplorable.
I can't believe you said that.
You're a Putin puppet.
So complete smears.
That's all he did.
And that was one of the things.
The other thing, He then ended up, later on, talking about LGBT stuff, and that was even worse, you know, because it was a Hustings for four of the challenger parties.
Parties that had, you know, 40, 50 candidates or more but weren't standing everywhere.
So there was a Heritage Party, there was the STP, the Workers' Party and Tusk.
So the leaders of those parties and representatives were all there.
So you would have thought that it was a Hustings.
He would like to hear what we all said and allow our differences of opinion to come out so the people listening could make an informed choice of who they wanted to vote for if they were interested in any of our parties.
But that wasn't the case.
It was like, if you have the right view, then he's going to let you talk and he's going to be fine and nice to you.
But if you don't have the right view, then he's going to try and take you down.
And you know what you didn't see is, and this went after the discussion on LGBT stuff as well, at the end of the show, when normally the presenter would say, oh, thank you for coming in, shake your hands and say goodbye, he turned straight to me and he said, you're a bigan.
You're never coming back on this show again.
Did he?
Really?
Yes.
That's an...
What?
I couldn't believe it.
I mean, he really was visceral.
He was like full aggression.
He was fuming.
He was like a beast.
You know, if I wasn't so big, I thought he would come over and hit me.
But he's not going to do that to me.
Didn't he attack somebody on Brighton or somewhere once?
On the pier, I think, yeah.
Yeah, I remember that.
Yeah, yeah.
I would like to see Ian Dale having a go at you, David.
I think I know who'd come out on top.
Yes, yeah, right.
By the way, I hope you've noticed I'm wearing, in honour of your hero, I'm wearing Zelensky Green.
Oh, marvellous.
So...
Tell me, how is it going for the Heritage Party?
I've become so cynical about electoral politics that there is nobody, there is nobody out there I would vote for, apart from you, actually.
I mean...
Well, because you do the thing, like, years ago.
I was tempted to run as a candidate myself, and I thought about UKIP at the time.
I thought, yeah, that's an insurgency party.
They tell it like it is.
They speak truth to power, and they tolerate diverse views.
I was that naive.
I believed that then.
But you actually do what I would like politicians to do, which is to...
Look at issues and approach them intelligently and speak the truth.
But that's never going to get you elected, is it?
Well, I hope it will.
You know, I hope that there will come a point where people are so fed up of the deception and the lies and the toxicity of everything that's been put out by the cabal and their agents and the government and the mainstream media.
They just have had enough of it and they want to go for something that is true and pure that is going to restore our nation again.
And it's just what I set the Heritage Party out to be as a socially conservative party with positive principles that everyone just thought was common sense 30 or 40 years ago before we got into the insane world that was just being built up, especially over the last 20 years or so.
You know, it's difficult because we don't have a lot of airtime on the mainstream media.
They give the airtime to the Uni Party, of course, Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Green, and now they give a lot of time to reform.
And I'm not sure what that is.
I look at it and, you know, I don't really talk about it that much, but, you know, because I'm not involved in it.
But I just get on and do with what the Heritage Party needs to do.
So it is hard.
You know, obviously in politics, you need members, you need money and you need manpower, what I call the three Ms.
The manpower means candidates and activists.
So we have some of those things, but, you know, not near enough to match the big parties that are supported by globalist corporations and trade unionists.
But, you know, I hope that will come and we'll be able to stand a candidate for you.
In your area, as every area in time.
Yeah.
I mean, I'd love to think.
I'd love to think.
It would be so fantastic if you were ever sitting in the House of Commons.
It would be marvellous, yeah.
I'm sorry to say, to reigning your friend, I don't think it's ever going to happen because my view is that the system is so...
Well, you've said yourself, you need money.
Farage, for example.
What do you make of all this?
I can't open my wife's newspaper.
I like to stress it as my wife's newspaper, not my newspaper.
I can't open that paper without seeing a picture of Farage.
They're really pushing the idea that Farage is going to be the next thing, aren't they?
It's bizarre, because they spent years and years smearing him and smearing UKIP. When I was in UKIP, back in the day before the referendum of 2016, we were smeared routinely.
We were far-right, we were bigots, we were racists, and we were nasty and hateful, all that kind of thing.
And all of a sudden, everyone who used to say that about UKIP and Farage and everyone who was there is now puffing him up and saying, you know, even The Guardian is...
It's like mentioning him in the same sentence as possibly being the next Prime Minister of the UK. It's strange.
So it's a very odd psyop that's going on with that.
But, you know, I think reform, you know, I would agree with them with some things.
Or let me put it in another way.
They would agree with us with some things because they didn't have a properly, you know, thought out manifesto until the general election of 2024. And I looked at it.
Everything that they had in there was Heritage Party policy.
They always copied and pasted half of our manifesto and rejigged the sentences, but left out some of the very, very important socially conservative things, which is why when there was the vote on euthanasia, assisted dying, as it was called, the majority of Reform MPs voted for that.
And I think that was quite a shocker to a lot of their supporters, because they're not a socially conservative party.
They're not a real conservative party.
I think it's an opportunistic party.
Over the last four years, they supported lockdowns initially.
They supported coerced injections, no jab, no job.
Tony Blair to be the master of the rollout.
And they supported the Ukraine war.
And then after everything happened in Israel, Gaza, they supported Israel no matter what, without taking a more nuanced position on it, which you need to take on this.
So over the last four years, they've been wrong on everything that's come out.
And so I'm glad to be independent of that and to actually be able to – I'm just interested in the truth.
But one, because I'm a scientist and I have a scientific background.
And then the other thing, the other thing is I'm a Christian.
And, you know, so I just look at all the issues and see, well, what's the truth in this, you know, and what needs to be done for the best outcome for the British people?
That's all I'm interested in.
Yeah.
I'm quite interested to get your take on this because you've been...
Okay, so how long have you been in politics for?
Actively since 2012, and then the first election before was in 2015. So, am I right in thinking that we know that politics is essentially, it's a dishonest process.
The electorate think that they can vote MPs in and out and that they'll get change and so on.
It seems to me that the ebb and flow of politics, who's in, who's out, is planned years, many years before.
So we used to think of Farage as this kind of cheeky chappy insurgency candidate who came from nowhere and he fought for, you know, he made Brexit, his thing.
And I'm looking back now and thinking everything was preordained.
Everything was planned.
And this shift from Farage being a kind of a baddie far-right or whatever to his current role as Trump's best friend and tipped as the future Prime Minister.
This had all been...
Yeah, I think about this, and I think there's some truth to that.
And yeah, the people who have got making plans in the cabal, I mean, they plan things more than a lifetime ahead.
Yes, that's what I'm getting at.
Yeah, that have been, you know, people in the 19th century, even the 18th century were thinking, oh, this is what we want.
We want communism.
We want, you know, this to happen in geopolitics, you know, in a 50, 100, 200 years time.
Yeah, that's true.
So yeah, there is a lot of planning that goes into things, but they don't always get their way.
And I think you've got to be careful not to fall into the trap of thinking, we can't do anything about it.
There's nothing we can do.
What the cabal wants is inevitable.
Because, of course, there's God.
God is more powerful than the cabal.
God is more powerful than Satan.
And he's got his plans, which will wipe away everything, ultimately, that the cabal and the evil entities want to do.
So, you know, we can pray and we can act and we can block what they're doing.
And they don't always get what they want, you know, when they want it.
And we can push back.
And sometimes we win.
So I think you've got to be careful about saying, you know, falling into the trap that some people fall into of saying, oh, well, this this is something good, but it's actually bad because the cabal have let this happen to, you know, because it's all part of their plans anyway.
You know, they got their plans, but we've got ours as well.
And, you know, I think 2016 was a good year.
Trump got in the first time.
There was the Brexit referendum one.
And they've pushed back on that since then.
Let me pick up on both those points.
I don't trust Trump.
I don't think that...
2016, I thought Trump was our saviour.
I thought he was going to end wars.
Relatively good record on not going to war.
He seemed to be looking up...
I remember going over to to to to D.C. to talk to one of the one of the think tanks and and they were all sort of saying, yeah, if you dig stuff or you grow stuff or you make stuff, you know, if you're real America producing really good, good things that the people if you're real America producing really good, good things that the people need, then Trump's going to take care of He's going to he's going to look after middle America.
And I thought, well, this is great, great for America.
But but by extension, you know, when this message gets to the to the wider world, we're going to have a revolution.
And of course, then I saw all his picks in his administration who were Essentially, the very swamp that he promised to drain.
And then, of course, we had Operation Warp Speed, where pretending to be in opposition or semi-opposition to Fauci, he ended up fast-tracking the death jab.
And there are still a few naive people out there who think that, yeah, Well, he had to rush out the vaccine because of complicated reasons I've just invented.
Well, it was obvious to anyone who did a modicum of research that the death jab was a death jab.
It was a big pharma kill project.
It was part of the industrial military complexes war on ordinary people like us.
And so what's to like about?
But Trump being back in the White House.
You know, James, I totally agree with you.
I'm the same.
In 2016, I thought he was fantastic.
I thought, 100% good.
And then, you know, I had that position pretty much up until 2020. And exactly like you, when he started to then roll out the jab with Operation Warp Speed, I thought, well, what's going on here?
That's wrong.
That's bad.
And that's when I started to, you know, have reservations about him.
And I think in the second term, he's still going to do some good things, you know, and he's going to be better than the alternative.
I mean, imagine.
If Kamala Harris had got in as president, the destruction of America would continue.
But she was never going to.
She was never going to get in.
I don't know, because this is up to the voters, isn't it?
But I think people have had so much.
Yeah, I think to some extent it is.
But hang on a second.
It wasn't up to the voters.
You don't believe that Trump didn't get the majority of the vote in his attempted second term when he was up against Biden.
I mean, that was...
It was stolen from him by the voting machines, but the whole thing was rigged.
It's true.
Absolutely.
You know, absolutely.
2020, it was stolen.
Trump should have been president in 2020. That's true.
Yeah, it was.
So it was arranged that he should have a...
There was a moment, I remember, when he...
I was still thinking that the Supreme Court was going to overrule...
You know, and demand recounts and stuff.
I was still going through that stage of he was cheated, but luckily the checks and balances of the American democratic system were bringing back.
And I remember him giving a sort of off-the-cuff speech at a...
An airfield, I think it was in Texas, and he was saying, I'm going away, but it's okay, I'm coming back, and don't you worry, it's just for a short, short time.
And now it makes sense.
He knew that the plan was for him to be, to go into the wilderness for the Biden, to prepare the way for his second term now.
That it's all rigged.
The whole thing.
You make a good point, James.
I mean, about this election in 2024 that's just happened, I think that the American people did come out in large numbers and they did vote for Trump.
And so he won, you know, justifiably this time.
And Kamala Harris didn't.
And, you know, my point I was making is that Trump is going to do some good things which wouldn't have happened if he hadn't got in.
He's going to, you know, end wokeery.
He's going to end the gender, transgender nonsense.
He's going to go back to carbon.
He's going to end migration, implement re-migration across the border, end the war in Ukraine.
He talks about peace in the Middle East.
But that's the big other thing that I'm very concerned about because I don't know what's going to happen in the Middle East because he's made different noises and different sounds to different people.
And I know that the two plans that are in action are the Project for a New American Century written in 1997 in the USA. And the Oded Yinon Plan, written in Israel in 1982, which is about the, you know, the Oded Yinon Plan is about a greater Israel.
And the Project for a New American Century is about America controlling the Middle East.
You know, they both, you know, act together.
And I think that, you know, as you and many people listening are very familiar with...
General Wesley Clark's speech in 2003, at the beginning of the Iraq War, where he said that the plan of the Pentagon was to invade and cause regime change in Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, and finish off with Iran.
And they want to get to war with Iran.
And that very much concerns me.
And that might go wrong there.
Yeah, I was talking to a young man in the military.
I mean, he's only a lieutenant, but he was saying sort of blithely, yes, well, we think there's going to be a world war by 2027 or something like that.
And I was thinking, well, if that's what these young lieutenants are being told, it's like they know.
I mean, you and I aren't thinking, yeah, what we really need right now.
It's another world war.
It's about time we had one.
Or this notion that seems to be being brooded about that there are these great powers, evil China, and it wants to take Taiwan and it wants to expand its territory in the Pacific or whatever.
And then you've got evil Putla.
And these are all things that are presented to us in the newspapers as a sort of casus belli.
But they're not really, are they?
This is the great powers in the world stitching up the New World Order.
And this is all part of the plan.
But from an American perspective, you see, the problem with the American view is that a world war happens somewhere else.
It doesn't happen on American soil.
Like, World War I was all in Europe.
World War II was in Europe, and it was in the Pacific.
And apart from Pearl Harbor, which would have been as easily preventable, as we now know, the American mainland, you know, wasn't touched by World War II. And apart from 9-11, it hasn't been touched by any conflict anywhere.
From their perspective, they sit in the Pentagon and run the military and run the military-industrial complex, and people die elsewhere, thousands and thousands of miles away.
That's the problem.
They've got no perception of war coming to American soil.
That's why I think some of them are so gung-ho about it.
But from where we are, you know, obviously, the UK and the European countries have very, very much been affected by it.
You know, we've still got, you know, areas of all our towns and cities which, you know...
Beautiful old buildings were demolished in the Second World War by bombs.
Now they've been built up as ugly, horrible, inhuman eyesores in many, many places.
Yes, which again, you see, I'm sure that too was part of the plan.
Because we know, for example, you mentioned Coventry.
Okay, Coventry was famously bombed.
But I think I'm correct in thinking that the worst ravages to Coventry were done by the town planners, not by the Luftwaffe.
After the war, yeah.
And they didn't need to build that monstrous, satanic cathedral.
They're mocking us.
The way that the post-war development, Post-war architecture is an affront to beauty, isn't it?
The use of concrete, the veneration of Le Corbusier, the ring roads.
Everything was designed to sort of strip the heart out of our cities and to remove any vestige of beauty.
Yeah, it's depressing, you know, at the very least, isn't it?
And, you know, as Alexander Solzhenitsyn says, in order to destroy a people, you must first sever their roots.
And a lot of the roots that we have are in the beauty of the buildings and towns and cities that we have, and they've just been destroyed by the town planners, as you say.
And it goes on today.
I mean, you go on the train into Manchester and to Leeds and to London from the north and from the east.
You just see miles upon miles of inhuman, depressing blocks, which basically just, you know, cells for human beings to sleep in and then interact with the outside world on their smart devices.
That's it.
You look at Dresden, and Dresden, you know, was horribly bombed by the Allies.
I don't agree with that.
That was dreadful.
That was revenge.
There was no need for doing that.
That was really Churchill.
I'm showing his satanic side, which is a fairly major part of his character, I think.
He liked a blood sacrifice.
And he hated...
He really seemed to hate the Germans.
He really...
I mean, he characterized them as Nazis, which he liked to mispronounce the word, and I don't know why it was his tick.
But he didn't...
It's a bit like when the Republican Guard were destroyed and all those convoys of vehicles, of Iraqi soldiers who didn't want to be involved in that war.
And I think it was George H.W. Bush, wasn't it, who sent in the war togs and they just immolated them, immolated these poor conscripts, completely unnecessary when the war was long since won.
In the same way, I think Churchill didn't just want to beat Germany and achieve a sensible peace.
He wanted to utterly destroy everything about Germany, kill more people, ensure its women folk were raped and allowing the Russians to go in.
What am I saying here?
I'll say two things, James.
The point I was making was that Dresden, even though it was completely destroyed, was actually built back with the original architectural style.
It's now beautiful.
It's a beautiful city to go to.
That's one thing.
But back to what we did.
Well, not me, but not people living a life today, but, you know, Churchill and the leaders of the time the Allies did to Dresden was a Holocaust, because the word Holocaust means a burnt offering.
And you're right, that's what happened to the Iraqi soldiers at the end of the Iraq War, or the Gulf War as it was, I think in 1990. They didn't need to be all...
Bombs to death, you know, by the airplanes.
And there's also what's going on in Gaza at the moment.
The whole of northern Gaza has been flattened and tens of thousands of people have been slaughtered.
Completely over-the-top reaction to what happened on the 7th of October, 2023. I know some people might not agree with that, but that's my view.
You know, the tens of thousands, mostly women and children, have been killed there.
And you see the pictures.
It is a holocaust that's going on there as well.
And we can't do anything about what happened in the 1940s now and the 1990s, but we can do something about what's happening right now in 2025. So when you go out on the campaign trail, tell me what you do every day.
Well, I've started a new media channel, actually, called RightThinkTV, so I'm starting to do interviews like you as well.
I'm going to bring that back.
I mean, I did work for TNT from February around to May last year for three months, you know, doing a show.
So that took up a lot of my day preparing for the interviews, and so I'm starting to do that now.
But I also, I do a lot of mundane admin work for the Heritage Party that people don't see, you know, writing emails, writing newsletters, putting together lists of candidates and members and things like that.
But also, you know, I'm very active on social media because if you're a public figure, people want to see you continually say something and respond to what's going on in the news So I do a lot of that in order to try to promote myself as the leader of the Heritage Party, promote the Heritage Party.
As well as a party as much as possible.
And then also go on podcasts and interviews.
I mean, I occasionally go to London to do panels with GB News and things like that.
So that's what I do with most of my days, honestly.
So the days fill up with things to do.
No, I can understand that.
That in a way, I spent...
My career as a journalist and was able to build up my profile that way.
And you've used politics for the same end.
But how do you survive financially?
Yeah, it's difficult, to be honest.
I haven't had a regular income for four years, so I've just been living off my savings.
But yeah, there's a limit to how much longer I can go on, honestly.
So yeah, I'm putting everything into this because I think this is what we need as a country.
And I'm hoping that at some point more people would come and join us and someone might donate to us so that we can grow very quickly as a heritage party.
But so far that hasn't happened.
So, you know, there's going to be a point, to be honest, James, when I'll have to go back and get a job because, you know, I'm coming to a point where I'm going to run out of money.
But I'd rather do this.
And, you know, at least give it a go and give people an option than not do it.
Because if I look back in my life and I just, you know, I worked in an office and that's all I'd ever done, that would have been a bit boring.
So I'm glad to be doing this, but, you know, things are coming to the point where, you know, I've got to consider my financial future as well.
What could you do?
I mean, what options are open to you?
I don't know.
To be honest.
I mean, before I was in politics, I was a chemistry teacher.
But I don't think I could go back now.
One, because I think I'd be so depressed teaching today in the kind of schools that we've got now where there's all this, like, woke nonsense and, you know, you have some boy comes into your classroom and he says, I'm the girl, call me Shirley.
And I'll just say, no, that's really stupid.
I'm not going to do that.
I think I'd get fired immediately.
You know, I don't think I could go and be a teacher.
Because I couldn't not tell the truth about these kind of things.
You're required to affirm, you know, absolute garbage.
I couldn't do it.
So, you know, I... Well, you know, it's almost like, you know, I'm like a dissident in the Bolshevik regime.
The only thing I could do if I wasn't doing this would be some kind of menial work, you know?
So, you know, but there you go.
That's it.
That's a sacrifice you have to make sometimes.
I hope I don't have to make that sacrifice, but just to give this a go, to give people a chance.
To have an alternative to Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, Green, I think it's worth doing.
And, you know, if it doesn't work out, well, at least I know I've given it everything.
You know, I've given it everything I possibly can.
And I hope it works.
But if it doesn't, then, you know, I will disappear quietly into a warehouse.
You're always very cheerful, David, which I like.
How do you stay cheerful in the faith?
Is it because you've got God on your side?
Yeah, of course.
That's it.
If I didn't know there was God and Jesus has saved me and we've got ultimate victory, I don't know what I'd do.
So for me, you know, like every Christian, it's like we're just passing through this world and we can enjoy it.
I'm grateful for the things that are happening.
I'm grateful for my food, for where I live, for what I have at the time.
But ultimately, we're going home to heaven.
You know, we're citizens of the heavenly kingdom.
I don't know.
What I'd do if I didn't know that and I didn't have that, if this was all I had, you know, I have no idea how you can survive mentally as an atheist when you just think that this is it and you've got to hold on to what you've got because when you die, that's it.
I mean, I've really, you know, I think I'd be so depressed because there's no hope in that.
I don't know.
I don't know.
So that's it, James.
Exactly.
It's my faith and it's...
You know, the comfort of the Holy Spirit that keeps me going.
Were you always a Christian?
Well, no, you're not born a Christian.
I had to become a Christian.
You do have to, you know, make some intelligent choice.
But I was very young, so I was six when I became a Christian.
The Bible and God and Jesus from people who were in my school.
I went to a Church of England school back in the day.
It was a good, it actually did give you some proper biblical Christian teaching.
So it just all made sense to me when I was very young.
And then, yeah, I've grown in my knowledge of faith and the Bible and God since then.
So it's been a long time now.
So yeah, I was young.
I don't have like some, you know, dramatic story.
I was off doing drugs and I nearly died and then I saw a light in the sky and then my life transformed and I know some people have that testimony.
I don't, but it's more of a, you know, just steady growth in my life, you know.
So, yeah, I was very young, but I'm very happy with it.
I'm very disappointed that you haven't got a story about your drug-troubled youth and the moment when Jesus...
We'll let that pass.
You mentioned atheists, and there'll be some people, quite a few people, watching us chatting who are atheists and go, oh, they're going up on about God, and it's so tiresome, can they move on to Farage or whatever?
And I love my atheist listeners as much as I love my...
Christian or whatever, ever listeners, although I'm not so keen on the Satanist listeners, but the thing that I like to challenge my atheist listeners on is, okay, I understand you're an atheist, and I understand that you think this is all there is, but how do you think we got here?
What's the point of it all?
I'd love to hear your explanation of why you exist.
I mean, obviously, your mummy and daddy got close to one another in bed and then nine months later you came out.
I get that part.
But going back, how do you think we appeared on the planet and where do you think the planet came from?
And if they're a sort of awake or they're a conspiracy theorist or whatever, As you probably are going to be watching this podcast by now.
I think that if you're going to say to me, yeah, well, there was this big bang and then we evolved, I'm thinking this is a bit like telling me that 9-11 was planned by a man in a cave or that, yeah, we've definitely been to the moon because President Nixon picked up a phone and spoke to the astronauts.
Evolutionary theory and Big Bang are so clearly inadequate to the job, scientifically apart from everything else, and mathematically, they describe something that is absolutely impossible.
So, okay, what's your explanation?
And often they don't want to go there, because they don't want to sort of challenge their own belief system, which is odd, given that if they're listening to people like me, they've questioned everything else.
Yeah, I think there's something like 10 or 11 physical constants that if they were just a fraction of a percentage out, like the universal gravitational constant, G and other things, the weak nuclear force, Planck's constant, etc.
If they were just a tiny bit out, then there would be nothing physical here.
Life would be impossible.
Matter, as we know it, would be impossible.
So, yeah, it doesn't make any sense to just say, oh, We all just came out of nothing.
Even people who are scientists who look into this, trying to look into it to prove that there is no God, that this has all just happened randomly, end up believing in God.
Because they can see that there must be some intelligence behind the universe and its creation.
Whether it was a few thousand years ago or whether it was millions of years ago, to me, it doesn't matter, to be honest.
Except, I would say...
The majority of scientists, biologists, they believe evolutionary theory is not even a theory.
They think they accept it.
It's part of their doctrine, and they would look at you and me, the people who believe that God created us, as kind of religious nutcases.
Okay, I'll give you an example.
When I was in my days, Fighting the climate wars, one of my staunchest allies was Matt Ridley, who's written some great books explaining that the world isn't as bad as we think it is and that progress has been marvellous for us and civilisation is, you know, we've advanced and technologies are going to save us and stuff.
I'm sure if he's even aware of my views, would be horrified to think that I was a so-called creationist.
He thinks that all intelligent people, you know, he went to Oxford and read zoology, I think.
He's never questioned it.
I don't think most scientists do.
Yeah, I think there are a lot of scientists who believe in intelligent design.
And, you know, that's why...
And, you know, even if you think that one species is then slowly adapted and transformed into another and another, and, you know, there are a lot of missing links in the fossil record.
There's a lot of conjecture in evolution that you have to read into things that aren't there to try and build up the theory, not least the missing link between apes, you know, the other apes and human beings.
But even if you do believe that there is evolution, there's got to be some intelligence there in order to create DNA and a cell in the first place.
And the systems that we have, it's just simply not possible for it to be created out of nothing.
It's beyond the bounds of possibility that it didn't happen without any kind of intelligence, is my view anyway.
Well, sometimes when I hear you speaking, I have to pinch myself to think that this is actually a politician saying some of the stuff you do, because you really are about as far down the rabbit hole as any politician I've ever heard.
But I just want to test you.
Where are you?
I mean, presumably, okay, moon landings?
Fate?
Moon landings, I don't know.
You know, it's not something I think about too much.
I can see both sides of the view.
Come on.
But I don't, to be honest, it's not really that important.
I haven't made up my mind on it, to be honest yet, James.
But you see, you've taken a position, which is a sort of neutral position.
Is that your political instincts kind of kicking in there and saying, well, it's...
It's easier for me not to have a position.
I am in politics and so moon landings, whether they're fake or whether they're real, there's no point in me talking about it because it's far more important for me to focus on what the Heritage Party is doing in trying to restore our nation.
Whether the moon landings were one thing or the other doesn't have any relevance to what I'm doing in the Heritage Party.
I hear this.
I don't want to give you a hard time.
I totally understand why.
It would be impolitic for you to come out and say, no, it's all fake.
But the thing I say to people when they come up with the line, oh, it doesn't really matter.
It happened a long time ago or didn't happen a long time ago.
What is it?
Well, of course it matters because the moon landings was one of the biggest stories in our lives.
When I was a child, I had the complete set of shell collectable coins that I used to make my dad go and fill up a shell garage so that he could get the coins that I could put into this cardboard sort of...
And I looked at the shiny coins and I probably would have seen not the original moon landings, but some subsequent ones on TV. And it would have been in all the newspapers.
And I think it was described as the biggest government spending project since the Manhattan Project.
Go figure.
Because I don't believe in nukes either.
I mean, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were firebombs and napalm.
They were not nukes because the technology wasn't ready at that time.
It matters because what it means is it's a clear demonstration that the political class, the people that we're supposed to trust, the world leaders, the scientists, the newspapers, All these institutions have been lying to us.
Not just that, but siphoning off the money to projects we can only speculate on.
The moon landings, Apollo, NASA created this massive black budget for the forces of darkness to do whatever they wanted to.
So I think it is quite a big deal.
You are letting off the hook, but I would say that for most people who aren't in...
I can see how it'd be David Kirsten of the Heritage Party who doesn't think we've been to the moon.
I mean, I can see why that could be used against you.
But generally, I don't think it's an intellectually tenable position to go, oh, I don't think it matters.
It happened a long time ago.
Yeah, again, as I say, James, I've got an open mind.
I listen to people speak about it on both sides.
And, you know, some of the footage which people say, oh, this is a footage and it shows that the moon landings were not real.
It's footage that was made for a film that clearly isn't from the original moon landing.
So you've got to be careful about what sources you use.
When you're looking into this and when you're thinking about it.
But then on the other hand, I question, well, they stepped out of the module and then there was a camera over there filming them.
How could that be?
So I look at that side of it as well.
But again, I haven't come to any definite conclusion on it.
Whereas something like 9-11, I'm far more certain that there were actual explosives rigged in the building.
And yeah, there were airplanes went into 9-11, but it was all set up to explode from beforehand.
That was clearly not...
Have you told Ian Dale this?
I didn't tell Ian Dale that because I didn't get a chance to talk anymore.
I think he'd like to know.
Ian, give him a call after this.
I know we did it.
We got off to a bad start last time we spoke.
Something I think you ought to know.
Yeah, well, you see, there's another thing.
I think that is...
There's somebody on Twitter I follow.
I had him on the podcast.
I've forgotten it.
His name has slipped my mind temporarily.
But he's always saying that...
To people who still have faith in the political system.
And look, these people in power, these people in parliament that you elected or whatever, or in Congress, none of them is talking about the spraying of the skies.
None of them is talking about chemtrails.
They're spraying the skies every day and they won't talk about it.
And in the same way, is anyone in politics talking about 9-11?
I think there have been the occasional hints, haven't there, from Trump and others that it wasn't quite as sultuous.
But you would be quite exceptional, I think, in...
Well, there's a whole body of evidence by architects and engineers for 9-11 Truth, which are really, you know, intelligent people who are experts in their field, and they're not crazy, you know, conspiracy theorists.
They're architects and engineers, and they've looked at everything.
They've looked at Tower 7 falling in its footprint, which cannot possibly be, you know, anything other than a controlled demolition, for example.
I mean, this is almost, you know, conclusive that this was all set up beforehand, because an aeroplane...
Didn't, you know, crash into Tower 7. There's no other way that could have happened.
So on that, it's very, very, you know, I'm very happy to say that.
And obviously, the effects of that have spoken about before with General Wesley Clark talking about how they wanted to get to war with Iraq.
And now, the end of that plan is they want to get to war with Iran.
So it is directly relevant to what's going on now.
And that could be directly relevant to actually putting in motion the plan to get to World War III. So we need to stop that from happening.
So that's where it all started.
Have you had any pushback on that from any of your interviewers saying, well, how can we take you seriously when you don't believe that 9-11 was carried out by Osama bin Laden and some Saudi-trained terrorists who mastered the ability to fly aircraft?
Well, it's not something I go out of my way to talk about.
I don't go on to a show and then start saying, oh yeah, I think that 9-11 was an in-house job.
I don't set out to talk about that.
No, but they must know that you think this, because you've said it to me.
I've said it to you now, because we're talking about conspiracy theorists and things like that, but it's not something that I say and talk about very often.
If I go on any show, I generally talk about the Heritage Party.
I would talk about I talk about gender ideology, comprehensive sexuality education, immigration, the financial irresponsibility of the Labour government, what the Heritage Party is doing, the EU, mass immigration, Southport, migrant crime.
These are the things I talk about.
I don't generally go out of my way to talk about things where I know people could have a go at me because I'm trying to use a sword and shield at the same time.
Yeah, the sword and actually pushing against what's happening in the country and what's been being done by the cabal.
But then I try to pick my words very, very carefully.
And I don't go into talking about, you know, things like the moon landings or, you know, or 9-11 or the Holocaust or anything like that.
Sure.
But you know how how the media works, don't you?
It doesn't matter what you say.
It's entirely up to the Ian Dale character, whoever's playing that role.
It's entirely up to the percent.
They can ambush you with anything.
They can just grab you.
Well, Mr Curtin, we understand your feelings on LGBT and immigration, but could you just explain why it is that...
I mean, they can just do that.
So you can keep your nose clean on the show, but they will shaft you anyway.
Yeah, fine.
And, you know, with 9-11, I'm very happy to give a defense of that.
Like I said to you, Tower 7 falling in its own footprint and so on.
You know, so I talk about what I can defend and what I can argue.
And I can use reason to actually, you know, make a position on a certain topic.
Yeah, so I've got no problem with doing that.
But when there's things I'm not certain about, you know, like the moon landings, for example, I don't mention it, you know, because I actually, you know, I don't know.
I'm still thinking about it.
No, you gave a very good, as you said at the beginning, you gave a very good account of yourself.
You were up to speed.
You knew the dates and stuff about the Ukraine.
You drove a tank battalion over Iandale and all he could do was go, yeah, but you're a Putin apologist.
You're evil.
He couldn't come up with any counter-arguments.
How did...
It's quite brave you to do it, though.
I mean, how did you feel when you were doing it?
I didn't mind at all.
And the thing is, I knew immediately he was just being hostile to me and coming back with smears.
The thing is, when they do that, people like Ian Dale do that.
Piers Morgan's another one.
Have you been Piers Morgant?
Yeah, yeah, I did the same.
That was back in September 2022. I had an interview with him and I was there to be the person that they just destroy and show that, oh, someone's got the wrong opinion here.
We're going to take them down and smear them and call them a Putin puppet and show that if you've got the wrong opinion on this, then that's wrong and we're going to make you look silly.
That's why I was on the show.
But the thing is with these people, they think that they're being clever and they think that they're actually being silly.
So, you know, high above you and then taking you down.
But actually, they look pretty bad themselves because they come across as being very, very aggressive, very, very hostile.
And all they can do is throw smears.
They don't have any reasonable, rational, intellectual, logical argument against the points I'm making about Ukraine.
Because there was a colour revolution in 2014 orchestrated by the CIA and Victoria Newley.
And there was, you know, there were 14,000 ethnic Russians killed in the eight years after that.
And Putin was trying to defend the ethnic Russians in the Donbass, you know, the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republic.
So you say that, they can't handle that because, one, they don't know.
Two, they've got no response apart from to smear you.
And as soon as they smear you, you know, I just go, okay, well, you've lost.
You know, and I just carry on.
And I don't get flustered, and they get more and more flustered trying to make me look bad, and they can't.
And then they make themselves look bad and silly by being too aggressive.
I agree that you played it very well, and you kept your good humour, and you did not look at all phased by anything like this, and you got your points across.
I'm still thinking, though, that...
I mean, there was an example of this on Twitter when I... Somebody, an old friend of mine, said, well, I thought Ian Dale did an excellent job.
And I thought he was being ironic, sarcastic, but he wasn't.
He genuinely believed that for Ian Dale to just go at you with an ad hom was somehow a victory.
And I'm wondering whether he was maybe more representative of where people are, because people sort of...
They build up these characters like Ian Dale and they're trusted presenters and they go to the show to listen to Ian Dale being Ian Dale or not.
And how many people are actually discerning enough to go, well, hang on a second, I don't know much about David Curtin or Ukraine, but his arguments seem really good.
I think probably most people would go, who is this crazy man?
Regurgitating all this Putin propaganda, which I don't believe because it's nonsense.
Because I would have heard about it.
It would have been in the newspapers if it were true.
Isn't that more representative of where people are?
It is where a lot of people are, sadly.
You know, we could call them normies, if you like.
You know, the sad thing is, you know, you get some people who have been in the freedom movement, you know, who have seen through all of the lies and the deceptions to do with lockdowns, to do with COVID.
But when Ukraine came along, they were right back on the media train, right back into listening to what was in the mainstream media, what Boris Johnson was saying, what Keir Starmer was saying, Biden was saying.
And they believed it 100 percent.
You know, they were right back on, you know, in normie land.
And I think there are people like that.
But, you know, my job is to just keep on, you know, looking for what the truth is and then just trying to explain it to people.
And I think by doing that, you wake people up.
I don't really like that terminology, but you make people aware or what is the truth in a particular issue, one by one by one.
It's a big battle because they keep finding other things to throw at you, to deceive people, to split opinion and to get people who have seen one thing and then to divert them off back into being a normie and something else and getting right back into where the cabal wants them to be.
What I think I have to do and what we have to do is not wait.
We need to speak out on something immediately because if you wait two or three months, like I did maybe, I waited a couple of weeks from lockdown.
I was very cautious back in 2020 about how far and to what extent I opposed the narrative.
I said immediately, I don't agree with this, but I was cautious in my language.
To now going, this is wrong.
On day one, I'm going to come out and say, this is wrong and this is why it's wrong.
And try to fight it very, very hard, very, very fast.
Because that's what we've got to do.
Because they're throwing so much at us every day almost about a new issue, a new PSYOP. You've got to see them immediately and call them out and try to just make as many people aware of it as possible.
And people will become aware with time.
It only goes one way.
People are not seeing through the Ukraine PSYOP and then going, oh no, I support Zelensky now.
It's always the other way.
People are seeing it and becoming aware of it.
It's very hard though, isn't it, to be right from the off, to be certain that you're calling out something correctly.
I remember October the 7th.
The news was coming out about these babies having their heads chopped off and about this extraordinary mass assault by this ragtaggle terrorist mob across the most heavily guarded border in the world with the most elite armed forces in the world.
And there were stories about the rave, where the ravers were killed.
A lot of people were just like, this is just the worst thing.
And I mean, I've been to a rave.
I can imagine what it would be like, pilled up off your face and suddenly getting terrorists machine gunning you.
It would be pretty horrible.
And I think people go from their own experiences to empathy with what they read about in the papers.
And it sort of bypasses the rational intellect the same way.
Dead babies, you think, dead babies, that's just like, that's so horrible.
I can't process this, but I know that I'm very angry and upset about it.
I wrote a piece very shortly afterwards questioning the narrative.
I just thought, this just doesn't stack up.
But as I did it, I thought, you're being pretty ballsy here, Dellingpole.
I mean, you're being uncharacteristically ballsy.
I don't like to take that big a risk normally.
And I got some pushback in the comments saying, no, it definitely happened.
I know somebody who was staying in a kibbutz and went to the...
There's always a friend of a friend who experienced this stuff.
But what I'm saying to you is, it's quite a risky position.
On a big major news incident like that to go in and be right and contrary immediately.
It is, and I do that when I can, when I'm more certain.
But on that, yeah, it's very, very difficult because reports are coming out there of beheaded babies and burnt babies, and now we know that they're all untrue.
Even the Israelis themselves have admitted it.
But what you could see from the beginning was that it was very odd that...
This border had been left unguarded.
The Israelis have been warned by the Americans.
They've been warned by the Egyptians.
They've even been warned by people in their own security forces that Hamas were up to something and going to try something very soon.
And they left the border fence unguarded.
So immediately you've got something that you can question there.
And I did.
And, you know, I had a lot of pushback from normies who read the paper and it's like, no, no, it's all Hamas bad, Israel good.
We must support Israel 100%.
And, you know, it wasn't as simple as that.
Also, given that Shin Bet, Israeli internal security, funded and created Hamas, you would have thought that maybe Hamas would have tipped off their paymasters what they were going to do.
Maybe?
I don't know.
Yeah, perhaps.
You had Western media organisations embedded with them as they came across the border to photograph and video them.
So, you know, Western media organisations knew that it was going to happen anyway.
But there's also, I mean, so much of this, look, when was October the 7th?
2023. 2023, okay.
So we're talking a while ago.
It's taken till now, for example, for somebody to go do some...
Video analysis of the footage that purportedly showed Hamas in action and it turns out it's AI generated.
It's not real.
But it takes all that time before...
Well, that saying that a lie is halfway around the world before the truth has got its boots on.
Yeah, it's true.
Yeah.
Another one, just to change the subject a little bit, another thing I thought from the very, very beginning was wrong was the conviction of Lucy Letby.
Oh, yeah.
Very, very soon on.
I just thought there's something really, really wrong here because it's all circumstantial evidence.
And there's such an outpouring of hatred, absolute hatred for this poor girl who now, you know, it's very clear now with the Thurwell report that she was innocent for at least a significant number of the things that she was convicted it's very clear now with the Thurwell report that she was I mean, I believe she was completely innocent and she was set up and she's a patsy.
And this is a very, very big miscarriage of justice.
But I just felt...
you know, it was more of a discernment that this was wrong as well as, you know, I didn't go along with.
This, you know, rage against her.
But I was told by people, you know, who were quite significant behind the scenes, on the right wing, saying, oh, don't talk about this because you're losing support.
So I actually had people come to me and saying, shut up about this.
And I thought, oh, yeah, I did.
Yeah, but people who genuinely cared about you or just people that were just...
I think it was someone who, I don't know, it's a strange thing.
It was saying, you're losing support because you're talking about this.
I'd advise you not to mention this anymore because people are losing support for you and you're losing support for the Heritage Party.
It's not someone who's in the Heritage Party.
I hope you told them to F off.
Well, I didn't say anything.
I just didn't reply to it.
And I just carried on.
But, you know, with something like this, I thought from the very beginning, this is wrong.
And I was, you know, not a lone voice, but a very, very few people speaking about it in the first two or three weeks.
Peter Hitchens is one of the biggest names to come out soon afterwards and say that he didn't agree with it, and then David Davis and so on.
I think he's licensed to do so.
I think on certain issues.
I mean, I don't know where you are on Mirri Finch's...
If you know the name, they're in the game.
Oh, yeah.
I love Mirri.
Yeah, she's great.
But I look at the Hitchens brothers and I think they're change agents.
They're not...
They're not.
I don't trust anybody.
I mean, look, I trust you because you're low enough.
Thanks, James.
You are low enough tier.
I don't want to be rude, but the reason I can trust you is precisely because you haven't got any further.
Right, yeah.
I wish I could, but, you know, the gatekeepers don't let me on, you know, to a certain platform.
No, they don't.
So tell me what your thoughts are on Farage.
I mean, you must have, if you were in a UKIP, you must have sort of had dealings with him and got a feel.
Yeah, I mean, back in the day, I was starry-eyed about him, you know, before the referendum, you know, when I first joined UKIP, because I joined UKIP because I was concerned about the EU, and I was concerned about political correctness, and he was battling both of those things at the same time.
So my opinion of him 10 years ago is very different to my opinion of him now.
And, you know, I mean, I just look at, you know...
I'm not going to say anything about him as a person because I still, you know, see him occasionally from time to time in a new studio and, you know, we have a nice chat.
But I think he's been wrong on a lot of things and now he's been behind the curve.
As I said before, he's been behind the curve on the lockdowns.
He went out and, you know, banged, bashed a pan for the NHS, which was kind of ridiculous, and then supported Tony Blair and then more recently supported Peter Mandelson.
Oh, he could be good for US ambassador.
He gets things done.
Satan's envoy is going to be a good person to have.
So there's so many things over the last four or five years particularly where I've just thought this is the wrong position to take and you're taking this position because...
You're going into normie land.
Maybe he was already there and, you know, trying to attract...
What he's trying to do at the moment, I think, is cannibalise the Conservative Party.
So he's saying things that are wrong, you know, on a factual level and on a sort of political level where you need...
He's not...
Saying the right things that we need to do, you know, from ideological purity, if you like, but to try to attract the masses of members and people who supported the Conservative Party to come over and support reform.
But then he's going to lose his base if he does that, because the reason that people supported him in the first place, or in, you know, where I am, you know, in the Heritage Party...
Are going to find themselves, you know, with a person there who's leading a party who just sounds like a, you know, bland centrist with no principles.
I don't think he will lose his base because I think that he will get, by mouthing these platitudes, he's a political animal in the way that you're not.
He knows which way the wind is blowing and he will go just far enough.
Faroz's job at the moment is to hoover up all the disaffected voters who voted Keir Starmer to get the Tories out and now realise they've made a terrible mistake.
But he's never going to say...
I don't care what this costs me electorally, but I have principles, and this is an important point I want to make, and if you don't like it, well, I don't care, because it's true.
He's never going to do that.
I think that's the difference, James, you've articulated that very well.
That's probably the difference between me and the Heritage Party and him and Reform, is that he will compromise on principles, or maybe doesn't have principles, but it will just do...
Do voting, do polling to see what public opinion is and then make a statement according to what the majority of public opinion comes back from the polling.
He says what the polling says, essentially.
I've got principles which are all laid out in the Heritage Party manifesto.
For example, we're pro-life.
He wouldn't even mention anything to do with abortion or anything.
anything i don't think he would even want to go there you'd avoid the question but this is the right stance to take for the country because we can't continue to kill 250 000 unborn children a year it's it's it's wrong for the population and it's wrong spiritually as well so well i agree I agree with you.
I mean, that's quite a good example.
We live in a culture.
The European culture has long been, has seen abortion.
Bizarrely, as a mark of civilisation.
We've been trained from...
I mean, I used to think that...
I used to buy into the line that it's a woman's right to choose and that it was an important part of a woman's freedom because I'd just been brainwashed, as I think most people have.
It's more of a hot-button issue in America, but in Europe, it's pretty much, well, certainly in the UK, it's been pretty much decided, yeah, abortion clinics are fine, you know, it's okay, it's only, you know, there are regulations regarding...
It's a couple of cells rather than a human...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Whereas now, I think it is a form of child sacrifice.
It's just hiding behind medicine and a woman's right to choose, but really, it is...
It is child sacrifice.
Yeah, it's a murder, basically, because, you know, life begins at conception.
So an unborn child has the right to life, just like you or I. So that's the position I would take.
And I think a lot of people do agree with us on that.
But yeah, people are indoctrinated into all of these, I would call it a cultural Marxist ideology of feminism.
There's feminism, there's the gender ideology, there's the Black Lives Matter.
All of these things are all cultural Marxist ideologies.
So if you're a feminist, women are oppressed by men, whatever, and then they need to have the right to kill their babies.
They wouldn't put it like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, I can see that going down well on the Ian Dale show.
I really wouldn't say that on the Ian Dale show.
Come on, do it.
He won't have you back, unfortunately.
Well, he's not going to have me back anyway, because there was the other conversation about the LGBT thing.
He asked me, he said, what would you do then?
Would you stop gay adoption?
I said, yeah, of course I would.
It's not right.
And then he went mad.
He just tried to stop me and said, well, he went to someone else.
I haven't finished yet.
And he said, well, it's my job to stop you from talking when you say something stupid.
I just carried on, because I thought, well, that was rude.
And then he said, well, if you don't stop talking, I'm going to cut your microphone off.
And then he said, I'm going to throw you out of the studio.
And it was all to do with me not agreeing with him on LGBT issues, because I said, you know...
I think marriage is a man and a woman, and I don't agree with gay adoption, because we shouldn't deliberately put a child or place a child without a mother and a father, which is a reasonable position, but he couldn't handle that.
He got very, very aggressive.
I'm going to have to go back to this program to see the second half.
It sounds like it got very entertaining.
It got even more interesting, yes.
At the risk of jeopardising your political future even further, can I ask you to outline your understanding of what, of big picture, what's happening in the world right now?
I mean, are we talking, we're witnessing an epic confrontation between good and evil, yeah?
Yeah, absolutely, you can see that.
Where does this originate?
I mean, are you...
Do you take the biblical view that this is the fallen angels sort of working against God and ultimately will be frustrated by him?
But I mean, the people who run the world, are they in cahoots with the fallen angels?
How does it work?
I think there's a lot of different levels to this.
There are a lot of people who are doing things that are very harmful to our economy, our freedom, our democracy, who are just useful idiots, who think they're actually doing a good thing.
Like all these climate eco-warriors.
Some of them genuinely believe that there is a climate emergency.
They need to be deprogrammed, if you like.
But they're doing it for a genuine reason.
And then there are people who are making money out of it, of course.
Who's this guy?
Dale.
Vince or whatever, he's got all these contracts to do for green energy.
We just paid for his divorce.
His wife got 43 million, I think, in the divorce settlement.
And I'm thinking, well, I paid for that out of my energy bills.
It's absolutely appalling, isn't it?
Normal people are being fleeced because the people who are in the circle, who have got the contracts with the government, set up these businesses which would fail immediately if they were on the free market, making a load of money essentially because the government keeps them going to do absolutely nothing that is economically productive.
So you've got people in it for the money.
And you've got some people who are in it for the power and the prestige, you know, people who hang around the World Economic Forum.
But then you've also got people who are right in it, you know, who really are satanic.
And, you know, I don't want to go too deeply into things that they might do, but, you know, they're very anti-Christian, let's say that.
And the anti-Christian element of this is very, very obvious.
You know, the Bible says we don't fight against flesh and blood, but we fight against principalities and powers in the spiritual realm.
So that's in Scripture.
There's nothing, you know, strange about that.
It's Christian doctrine.
We're fighting.
There is a battle between good and evil, between God and Satan.
And that manifests itself in the political realm and the economic realm.
And the thing is, we've had 300 There's a spiritual realm and there's a...
There's angels and demons and devils and a-devil and God.
That people have been programmed into believing that that isn't true and also that people that say that are somehow backwards and medieval.
But actually this is reality.
And I think now people are seeing this more and more because the evil is so obvious.
And in some places it's tangible.
Have you ever had any sort of...
Spooky experiences on the evil...
I have a couple of times.
At night I've felt some kind of evil presence around.
I just asked Jesus to come and get rid of it and it usually goes away.
What I'm asking is, have you ever been near Tony Blair, say?
Oh, okay.
A person who you feel is evil.
I've never been anywhere near Tony Blair himself.
I've never met him or been near him physically.
But yeah, there have been people where you just know that there's something...
There's something malevolent about them, you know, and they're not, you know, people that I try to stay away from, if possible.
I try, I can't think of a specific example now, but I know that you do meet people like this, and you know there's something, something is not right about them spiritually, yeah.
Which branch of Christianity are you?
What sort of church do you go to?
You know, I wish everyone could just say they're Christian, you know, and they believe in the Bible and we all agree on the Nicene Creed.
But, you know, I would say I'm a Protestant.
I'm not a Roman Catholic.
I'm not Orthodox.
But I think we, you know...
Do you go to a sort of standard C of each?
When you go to church, do you go to a standard sort of CV, Anglican thing, or what?
Right now, I don't go anywhere regularly, but I go to one or two different places, you know, every now and again.
But I don't find that there's anything that is really that satisfactory.
You know, because I've moved.
I actually moved a year ago.
So I did find a place which is really nice, a traditional Reformed Protestant church that I went to down in Sussex.
And that was really good.
You know, there was really good Bible teaching every week.
Because I got to the point where I'm not...
There's some of the things that...
People say in churches, some of the songs that people sing, I find them very, very shallow and rather egocentric.
You get a lot of modern songs in evangelical churches.
And I'm an evangelical Christian, but a lot of the modern songs are very focused on...
I'm going to do this.
It's all about me, me, me, rather than about God and about Jesus.
And a lot of the...
Sometimes you get sermons, you know, because I've been a Christian for such a long time.
I know the Bible pretty well.
I've got a very good understanding of the basics of theology.
And I go to hear what someone says.
And it's, you know, it's like someone with a PhD going back to secondary school.
Yes, yes, yes.
I'm looking for something deeper and something that really gets right into the Bible and looks at, you know, what it really says.
There's really good exegesis, hermeneutics, cross-references things to other things in the Old Testament, New Testament, looks into the Greek, looks into the Hebrew, really understands what it really means.
So that's what I'm looking for now.
So, you know, I listen to good sermons online, actually, now these days.
And I get a lot of, you know, good meat, spiritual meat, if you like, that way, rather than going to a church.
That's sort of where I am.
I think I'm probably a terrible churchgoer in that I approach it like a kind of really snooty restaurant critic going into a restaurant and assessing the sermon.
Right, they mentioned Ukraine, that's 10 points off.
They mentioned climate change, 200 points off.
But at the same time, I'm up for being pleasantly surprised.
So on Sunday, there was a woman sort of visiting vicar that I hadn't come across before.
And she did a sermon about the wedding at Cana.
And she not only managed to convey lots of interesting information about background information about weddings in that period.
She made the interesting point, for example, that it would have been a really big deal if you ran out of wine.
The whole community would expect you to put on a good show and you would scrimp and save and you have to get it right.
So she was giving a bit of context and she did not mention contemporary politics once.
She put in one very charming personal anecdote which really worked.
And I thought, you've done a really good job there.
Mrs. Vicar.
And I'm always testing, the other thing I'm always testing for is, do these people actually believe in the supernatural?
So I'm always sort of going up, I'm always going up at the end of the service and sort of prodding them and sort of like...
Testing them whether they actually know that we're living in end times or whether they suspect we're living in end times and whether they know that we are in the midst of an epic struggle between good and evil and that there really are demons.
It's not just a kind of some sort of trope that was in the New Testament but has no relevance now.
And I'm quite pleasantly surprised sometimes that there are people out there who are Who know what's going on?
But at the same time, the reason I was asking you about that church question, what do you go to?
Do you not find that many, if not most Christians, don't get the supernatural?
They think it's a kind of...
Christianity is like social work.
It's about being nice to people.
In this country?
In this country, yeah.
But if you go to Africa...
Every church knows and understands that the supernatural is real.
You know, if you go to Latin America, Christianity's center has moved from the West to Africa and Korea and South America.
You know, even China and Iran, there is a huge church underground.
There's probably more Christians in China than there are in Europe.
Genuine Christians.
And they all know that the world is supernatural.
Well, there is a supernatural sphere.
And they're all very, very aware of it.
The West is behind.
In a way, we call ourselves enlightened because there was this enlightenment after the French Revolution.
But I think actually it's an inversion of words here because actually we've been in darkened and we've actually switched ourselves off from mystery and the supernatural and just now have been programmed into believing there's nothing beyond the material, whereas the Bible clearly says there is.
And even Christians struggle with it.
Because we're just soaked in a culture which is so grounded and cemented in materialism.
And we need to get beyond that to understand that there is supernatural and is very, very real.
And even though we don't see it, it's there.
Yeah, I agree.
So do you think that you're...
Are you saved?
I mean, when you die?
What's going to happen?
Well, I'll go to be with Jesus.
I'll go to be with God.
I don't know what it's like because the Bible says, you know, no eye has seen, no ear has heard.
You know how wonderful it's going to be.
So, you know, that's what I think will happen.
But yeah, I'm saved, if you like, redeemed, born again, whatever word you like to use.
I think this is the problem of listening to...
I listen to too many hardcore podcasts or read too many hardcore podcasts where you get really, really...
Some people are quite scary on the subject of Christianity.
And if you take Jesus literally when he talks about straight as the gate, you realise that very, very few of us are going to make it.
Right.
It does say that, doesn't it?
It does.
Broad is the gate and wide is the road that leads to destruction.
Yeah, exactly.
Narrow is the gate and straight is the way that leads to eternal life.
But it's there for everybody who wants it and everybody listening.
I say this occasionally when I'm doing broadcasts myself on Christmas Day, Easter, on Reformation Day, which is the same as Halloween, I call it Reformation Day.
Yeah, when I'm talking about Christianity, I always encourage people to become a Christian, you know, because we're battling now on this earth, but also you need to be a Christian to be saved and to go to be with God.
We simply cannot, you know, save ourselves.
We cannot, by our own efforts, become good enough to meet God's standards, to go and be with Him in heaven.
We need Him, but it's so easy.
Taken the penalty for our sin, our wrongdoing on the cross.
And, you know, we just need to accept that.
And then he says, be saved, believe and be baptized.
Believe in Jesus and be baptized.
You know, you can say a prayer if you like.
I mean, people have formulated a sinner's prayer, which is quite useful, which is accept you're a sinner, believe in God, confess your sins.
And then, you know, receive the Holy Spirit, you know, it's a bit formulaic, but it's all the things that you need to accept and to pray to God to be saved and become a Christian.
And anyone can do that at any time, even now.
So, you know, I always encourage people to become a Christian because that helps you now, and then you'll be eternally with Jesus, which is a wonderful thing.
Yeah, when you think about it, maybe of the things that we do, you know, you with your political campaigning and me with my kind of entertaining conspiracy podcast, maybe these are just side issues compared with a really important thing that when we say to people, you know, you really should think about your immortal soul.
Maybe that's the really important part we do.
Well, all of these things are going to pass away, aren't they?
I mean, ultimately, the world system, as we know, with the political parties we have, is important today to be...
Acting for freedom, for goodness, for righteousness, for common sense and sanity, to protect our children and so on, to make our country safe again.
These are important things to fight for today.
But ultimately, you know, Jesus is coming back a second time.
He's going to wrap everything up.
And that's the most important thing.
You've just summed up Psalm 37. Have I? Well, kind of.
It says, I myself have seen the ungodly in great power and flourishing like a green bay tree.
I went by and lo, he was gone.
I sought his place, but nowhere could he be found.
So all these, it is a great consolation that when you look at Piers Morgan or Dale Vince or Ian Dale, there's a sort of Dale theme coming in there.
Right.
Or Bill Gates.
Tony Blair, just remember yourself.
You've seen them in great power, but one day they'll just be dust.
Indeed.
The last shall be first and the first shall be last.
Well, David, it's been lovely chatting to you.
And I'm sorry to poor...
Cold water on your ambitions of being Prime Minister.
I just don't think it's going to happen.
Well, you do, but I still hope, I still have high hopes that, you know, the people of this country will actually come through and, you know, vote for me or someone like me.
Tell you what, it would be a brilliant bit of divine...
If God really wanted to show his power, he pointed the finger at you and said, I'm God, I'm going to make David...
Curtain Prime Minister.
You know, forget your ambitions, Farage.
David, it would be quite cool.
That would be amazing, you know.
It's like, well, you know, I never set out in my life to be Prime Minister, you know.
It would be a very tough job to do, but if I did, it would be because I want to set this country right again, you know.
I just have the same...
Ambition or, you know, the same desire, I guess, not ambition, but the same desire to see our country, you know, just be sane again, if nothing else.
That's all I want.
Is that your motto?
Be sane again?
What is the Heritage Party motto?
Freedom, family, nation.
That's our motto, our strapped line.
Freedom, family, nation.
Yeah.
Well, listen, I really wish you all the best.
And tell us now where we can find your stuff and where we can vote for you and stuff.
Yes, the Heritage Party website is heritageparty.org.
Have a look there.
You can join there and you can read our manifesto on the website as well.
And then at Heritage Party UK is our Twitter feed.
And then I'm at David Curtin.
I said Twitter, didn't I? But it's X now.
I think, no, we don't call it X, because X is satanic.
We call it Twitter.
Ah, okay.
Hmm.
Okay.
So, add David.
What about your podcast thing?
Is that...
Yeah, so I put it on my David Curtin YouTube channel, but I've got a new media platform, RightThinkTV, so you can have a look at RightThink.TV website, and I put all my podcasts and some of my pontifications on there as well.
Good.
Well, thank you for being brave, and thank you even more for being jolly.
Oh, you're welcome.
It's nice to talk to you, James.
I think that's why.
If I cheered you up, you've cheered me up anyway.
And just remains for me to thank all my lovely viewers and listeners, but I'm afraid to say especially those of you who can get off your asses and actually support me.
I don't expect, if you've got no money, that's fine.
You get my stuff free anyway.
But if you can, really do think about supporting me on Substack or on Locals.
You get early access to my podcast and you help me earn a living because this is my sole living.
And if you can't do that, buy me a coffee.
If you want to, just give me a little flip.
Or if you can't do that, maybe consider supporting my excellent sponsors.
And thank you very much for listening and thank you again, David Curtin.
Thank you.
Um...
Global warming is a massive con.
There is no evidence whatsoever that man-made climate change is a problem that is going to kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to deal with it.
It's a non-existent problem.
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition of my 2012 classic book.
Watermelons, which captures the story of how some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.
It's a shocking story.
I wrote it, as I say, in 2011, actually.
The first edition came out.
And it's a snapshot of a particular era.
The era when...
The people behind the climate change scan got caught red-handed, tinkering with the data, torturing till it screened, in a scandal that I helped christen ClimateGate.
So I give you the background to the skullduggery that went on in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were informing us, we've got to act now.
I rumbled their scan.
I then asked the question, OK, if it is a scan...
Who's doing this and why?
It's a good story.
I've kept the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end, explaining how it's even worse than we thought.
I think it still stands up.
I think it's a good read.
Obviously, I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.
You can buy it from jamesdellingpole.co.uk/shop You'll probably find that one.
Just go to my website and look for it, jamesdellingpole.co.uk And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring round all those people who are still persuaded that, "Oh, it's a disaster.
We must amend our ways and appease the gods, appease Mother God." There we go.
