Ben Rubin describes himself as a "Liberal Heretic" or an "Orthodox Raver" and is the young new star of UK Column. He also hosts his own podcasts, RISE and PATTERN. He joins James for his third appearance on the delingpod to discuss active citizens building parallel systems of culture, economic output, and governance for universal human benefit.https://substack.com/@riseukhttps://pattern18.substack.com/↓ Monetary Metals is providing a true alternative to saving and earning in dollars by making it possible to save AND EARN in gold and silver.
Monetary Metals has been paying interest on gold and silver for over 8 years.
Right now, accredited investors can earn 12% annual interest on silver, paid in silver in their latest silver bond offering. For example, if you have 1,000 ounces of silver in the deal, you receive 120 ounces of silver interest paid to your account in the first year.
Go to the link in the description or head to https://monetary-metals.com/delingpole/ to learn more about how to participate and start earning a return on honest money again with Monetary Metals.
↓ ↓ How environmentalists are killing the planet, destroying the economy and stealing your children's future.
In Watermelons, an updated edition of his ground-breaking 2011 book, James tells the shocking true story of how a handful of political activists, green campaigners, voodoo scientists and psychopathic billionaires teamed up to invent a fake crisis called ‘global warming’.This updated edition includes two new chapters which, like a geo-engineered flood, pour cold water on some of the original’s sunny optimism and provide new insights into the diabolical nature of the climate alarmists’ sinister master plan.Purchase Watermelons (2024) by James Delingpole here: https://jamesdelingpole.co.uk/Shop/Products/Watermelons-2024.html↓ ↓ ↓
Buy James a Coffee at:https://www.buymeacoffee.com/jamesdelingpole
The official website of James Delingpole:https://jamesdelingpole.co.uk
x
Welcome to The Delic Pog, with me, James Delicpog.
And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest.
But before we meet him, a quick word from one of our superb sponsors.
Monetary Metals is providing a true alternative to saving and earning in dollars by making it possible to save and earn in gold and silver.
Monetary Metals has been paying interest on gold and silver for over eight years.
Right now, accredited investors can earn 12% annual interest on silver paid in silver in their latest silver bond offering.
For example, if you have 1000 ounces of silver in the deal, you receive 120 ounces of silver interest paid to your account in the first year.
Go to the link in the description or head to monetary-metals.com forward slash Dellingpole forward slash.
To learn about how to participate and start earning a return on honest money, again, with monetary metals.
I'd definitely give the silver a go.
I've got gold, but I like silver because silver has the potential to go much, much higher if you're of a sort of more adventurous disposition, which I am.
Anyway, you should do both, gold and silver.
If you want interest on it, Go to monthly metals.
Welcome back to the Dunning Pod, Ben Rubin.
It's been a while, hasn't it, mate?
It has been a while.
It was September 23 that we last spoke to each other.
This is my third time.
Third time lucky.
Was it your third time?
No, this will be.
Today is my third time.
Oh, I see.
You sound like you're overexposed.
I'd better stop this podcast right now.
No, but, I mean, much has happened since we last spoke.
You've become...
Say that again.
You've become a celebrity.
I mean, in our narrow circles.
If you can have a narrow circle.
Yeah.
Among the tinfoil hat crazes.
You've got a presence now, haven't you?
I get more screen time than most, yes.
I think that's probably fair to say.
I don't know about celebrity.
That feels a little bit of a push.
Or an insult, even.
Well, yeah, I think, yeah, maybe you're right, actually.
But no, I'm on UK column a lot.
So, yeah, that's good.
I'm happy for you because I'm happy that you are being given exposure.
Because you're very good at doing the thing that I'm not, frankly, much interested in doing, which is drilling down.
Into the detail.
Using your kind of...
What were you?
Were you a management consultant?
Or what would you call it?
Kind of.
So basically I was a rainmaker for consulting firms.
Different types of advisory businesses basically.
So I started off in the creative design world.
Brands consulting and advertising.
That sort of area.
And worked with...
Some of the best in the game, actually.
The firms that I worked with were some of the most respected, established, well-known creative firms in the world.
Top tier, working with amazing clients.
Did you work with that one that Underworld, that creative agency that Underworld are involved in?
Was that Tomato?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So I didn't work with them.
They were a little bit more edgy than the stuff I was doing.
A lot of what I was doing was quite corporate, right?
And, you know, so we would be working with, I don't know, like Vodafone to do their global retail redesign and transform their whole store network and some cool stuff as well.
So quite a bit of luxury work with, like, Liberty of London and...
Lots in telecoms, lots in...
We did some great work with McLaren when they launched their road car.
So I was at an organisation called Fitch for a few years.
Did you get given a free F1? Not quite, not quite.
Tight-fisted bastards.
Yeah, I know, right.
But the team did loads of F1 work over the years, actually, when I was at Fitch.
They did a lot of cigarette stuff, actually, over the years.
So they were working with Lucky Strike and doing the Honda Lucky Strike F1 activation and all that kind of thing.
So that was really interesting, and I learned a lot about the creative agency world and the magic, is what I call it.
The kind of expressive and visual and exciting side of business.
And then I kind of transitioned around halfway through my kind of career.
So I went into the industry in 2004 and then kind of bounced out around 2021-22 when I started to kind of realise quite what on earth was going on.
And we've talked about that and I'm sure we'll get into that a lot more later on.
So I spent about eight years in the creative agency world and then around 2012 I got into digital.
So this is when the devices really started to kick in and everything sort of transitioned over to mobile phones and these kind of big tech platforms like the Facebooks of this world were in the ascendant.
The whole, you know, economic, social, cultural system changed and we were working with clients to help them navigate that, basically.
And really sort of sitting in the vanguard of it as well, to be honest with you.
You know, like we were initiating a lot of these discussions and we were helping them to understand how to migrate from your current model of...
Service delivery, you know, whatever it is that you're doing, into a new model that is predicated on the use of these advanced technologies and to digitise your operations, your people, the whole thing really.
And that became very strategically important, very valuable work.
And we got bought by one of the big management consulting firms in 2015. And then I did a whole period of integration with them and got a lot of visibility.
Lots of different areas of the system.
One of the interesting things about being a consultant is you work across industry and particularly that sweet spot 2012 through to around 2020 I was working across swathes of the system and going into boardrooms.
This is the important thing because it was strategically important stuff so we were getting access to the strategic vision and roadmap for Big companies in lots of different parts of the economic system.
And then at some point, I was like, oh, hang on a minute.
If you add all of this stuff together, and most people don't get to see it all in totality.
They see their bit, right?
So actually, because we were skirting across the surface, the way I think about it is you're kind of cutting horizontally through the stack all the way around.
And then you go, oh, hang on a minute.
Now that I've been in all of the rooms and I see how the whole thing, Actually fits together.
I can actually now understand that this is not going in a good direction.
Ultimately, it coalesces towards global tyranny.
That's what's being rolled out.
So, are you letting all the individual departments off the hook?
Because they don't see the big picture, therefore they don't know that they are creating this totalitarian one-world government.
Yeah, I think...
I'm becoming less forgiving as time goes along because we're quite far into this now and actually the thing that really triggered my sort of awareness of the fact that something was up was what happened in 2020 and there are a lot of people that right now seem absolutely desperate to avoid...
I'm thinking about that too much.
I think a lot of it's to do with post-traumatic stress.
They're trying to block it out.
But then there's also a lot of people, frankly, who are in the professions and in the corporations and government and civil service who are just desperately trying to avoid accountability for what happens.
And in that, they're just heads down, carrying on doing what they were doing before, but they're just continuing to perpetuate this system which is designed to crush us.
That's what it's for.
And I think there's kind of a time limit on this stuff.
At some point, particularly people who are much more senior, and I was having a conversation with someone earlier on today about a mutual friend who I know is earning...
You know, the thick end of at least half a million pounds a year doing strategic advisory work around the issues that we're talking about, particularly to do with SDG compliance and advising corporations, but also critically advising some of the mainstream political parties, including the people currently in government, on how to do what they're doing.
And it's like, do you know what?
You're kind of running out of road here with me.
You should know at this point that what you're doing is wrong, and if you don't, then we've got a serious problem, right?
And you've got a serious problem.
You're backing up a serious problem for yourself.
And actually, it's not so much yourself, although that is an issue.
The thing that I'm particularly concerned about is how this is actually cascading down into the rest of society, because it's extraordinarily dangerous what they're doing.
So I expect he's a bit like...
I'm shortly going to be doing this, having a chat with a woman in California who went to one of the aerodromes from which the chemtrail planes fly.
Right.
And she confronted the pilots and said, like, do you have children?
And the pilot said, yeah.
And your mate...
He's like one of those pilots.
He's busy chemtrailing us to oblivion and completely disconnected from the consequences of his behaviour.
He's just taking the money.
She.
She.
Oh, well, now you explained everything in a pronoun.
It's a big part of the issue, I'll be honest with you, and I've reported on this a lot for the column, and we've gone right off the deep end here.
I was telling you about me being a rainmaker and working in the consulting industry, but that gave me a lot of visibility and understanding what the corporations were doing.
And one of the things that's been happening in the corporations...
Less so while I was there, although it was certainly in the Ascendant, but definitely in the past five years, right, is this, well, all of the intersectional grievances being aired, basically, and the whole kind of DEI program, and whether it's about race or gender or sexual orientation or, like, whatever thing that they come up with next, like, a lot of this stuff is kind of coalescing into these...
Networks of what is ultimately corruption.
You know, what we're seeing.
And a lot of it's being driven by these female-led networks, frankly.
I'll be completely honest about it.
And I've been reporting on this for UK Column.
And this goes right the way to the top level of the system.
What do you think it is about women in these jobs?
Do you think women are more ruthless?
They're more biddable?
They're more...
Less capable of thinking of the consequences of their actions?
I think that there's a bunch of things, right?
So I think certainly there are some women who have a capacity for ruthlessness which would put any man to shame.
And I completely agree with that.
And actually I'll say from the outset, all of the worst things that I've seen in my life, and this is just my experience, I'm not saying she's a universal truth, but all of the worst things I've seen done have been done by women.
Generally, two other women as well, right?
And, you know, there's this idea that if you want to beat someone to death, then you need a man.
But if you want to destroy someone emotionally and spiritually over a period of decades and completely ruin their life, then you need a woman to do that, right?
And you do see that sort of, I don't want to say mentality, right?
That kind of individual and that kind of spirit all around the place at the moment, right?
There's a lot of very manipulative, very powerful women in the system.
And as I say, it goes right to the very top levels.
And, you know, this organisation I was talking about last year, and I'll probably have to bring them back out at some point onto UK Column News, is one called Vital Voices.
Vital voices.
We must listen to these women from around the world.
And they've kind of created this international network and it's operating in 150 countries or something like that.
And you go, wow, it's so altruistic and you're all so lovely and you're all so well-intentioned and you're all so passionate about this stuff.
And you kind of peek behind the curtain a little bit and you go, oh, right, OK, it's a U.S. State Department project that was initiated by Hillary Clinton.
So this is just, you know, there's a lot of kind of hand-waving and smoke and mirrors and, oh, we're the great sisterhood, the empathetic and the kind ones.
But actually, when you look into the background of it and see what these networks are actually doing, it's really bad news.
So that ruthlessness bit is certainly central.
And also, you know, if I think about some of my consulting days, I remember this one lady in particular at EY in the UK. One of their top tax partners.
She used to sign off tax for one of the oil supermajors.
I won't say any more than that.
But this is the lady who was responsible for making sure that one of the biggest oil companies in the world paid as little tax as possible.
That's your starting point.
And I saw her make a grown man cry in a meeting before.
It was vicious.
Really vicious.
So this idea that the ladies are always the kind ones, like, no, that doesn't actually stack up when it comes down, when you get down to the reality of the situation.
But then another part of it, and the thing I think about a lot, actually...
Particularly as it relates to the way that the state is being digitised and what they're doing at the moment in terms of AI governance and this desire to control everything and to use technology to suppress dangerous ideas and dangerous speech and to get rid of the far right and all that kind of thing.
I think part of it is it's like a weaponisation of the maternal instinct.
So actually what they're doing is taking something that's very natural and very powerful, this desire to protect and to create a soft environment where everyone can be safe and all that kind of thing.
And that has been redirected in a way that is actually incredibly dangerous.
And actually if you look at the discussion...
Again, I've reported on this even actually in the past few weeks.
There's a crew of largely younger women, so kind of like millennial Gen Zs, but also some older ladies as well who are in these networks that are all about AI governance, women in technology, all this kind of thing.
So ladies, what's going on back there?
And then also, has anyone actually thought through the implications of what creating these kind of networks are?
You know, like, because we just kind of headfirst run straight into it.
We'll get rid of all the men because they're awful and us girls will come in and fix it.
It was like, okay, was that a good idea?
You know, I'm not suggesting that the all-male networks were particularly great, but actually the idea that we're just going to chuck one out and bring in another and it will be done wholesale and there's no discussion about it, like, it seems a bit crazy to me.
Well, no, I mean, it's obviously part of the plan because girls don't understand tech.
I mean, you know, I'm an honorary girl in that respect.
But, yeah, it's like girl engineers and girl astronauts.
You get the old anomaly, but it's...
Well, it's, you know, like, it's...
They are certainly...
I think what they say, men are more interested in things, women are more interested in people, right?
And because men are more interested in things...
Generally speaking, right, because actually there are 8 billion near enough people on Earth, right?
So for us to say this is an absolute truth about all men or all women, you can't do that, right?
So obviously there are going to be women who are extraordinarily good engineers, but the fact of the matter is that certainly if we look back through history and even in the immediate recent past, the vast majority of the top-level engineers were men, and that wasn't just because of sexism.
You're doing that thing.
I remember I had to pick you up on this last time.
This is a safe space.
You don't need to qualify your sexist remarks here or apologize for my sexist remarks.
It's perfectly okay.
This is a safe space.
You were straining into normie world there.
Maybe it's the time you spent in the normie corporate sector.
I occasionally catch you.
I have a zero-tolerance policy here for...
I'm telling you what I think, James.
Yeah, I know, but it's...
Well, you're telling me what you think you think.
No, no, I'm telling you what I actually think.
And what I actually think is a bit more nuanced than just this or that.
I'm saying it's not being rude, but what you're saying is commonplace.
It doesn't need saying.
You don't know who's listening.
Well, no.
We're not playing that game.
We assume that the people watching are kind of simpatico and sympathetic and on board.
And we're not trying to reach out to a broader audience, James.
Is that not the game?
No.
Not at all.
No.
We're in the business of people who don't get it.
That's their problem.
That's not our problem.
We're not in the business of kind of worrying whether people might take offence, because if they do take offence, then they are taking offence on the basis of a misunderstanding of tone.
Right.
Basically.
Okay.
I've now fired my shot.
Ben, you're bloody interesting, but I don't like waste...
Sorry to put you up, but I don't like space being wasted with what are essentially kind of...
Normally world platitudes.
Goodness.
I haven't been accused of that in a while.
No, but I noticed you doing this before, and I really hate confrontation, but at the same time, I feel that sometimes I have to come in with my editorial jackboot and say, look, enough.
Was that because I was saying, I seem to remember in the first interview we did, I spent a little while saying that I actually thought that most people in the NHS were decent people.
Whatever, yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about.
It's a short step from there for people of all colours and creeds holding hands under a rainbow flag.
We have to be...
Understand where we are in the scheme of things.
Can I just, for a moment, totally change the subject?
Because I know we'll come back, because we can meander.
That's allowed.
I was, on the way to this podcast, I was really enjoying your, because you've started doing podcasts yourself now.
Yeah.
And you did one with Alex Thompson.
Which reminded me how much I missed having both of you.
I'm going to have to get Alex back.
He's such a smart, an erudite fellow.
Yes.
But one of your other incarnations, apart from being a kind of former Rainmaker, is that you're into your music, your DJing and your dance music and stuff.
Yeah.
I think it's always a mistake not to talk about that.
Because it's one of the...
Those of us who were into music, really into music, and I was too, you know, I was a music critic and I went clubbing in the Acid House days and stuff and loved all my dance music, loved all my pills and stuff.
It's quite a shock when we go down the rabbit hole and we discover that actually we were the victims of one of the biggest psyops or...
Maybe more correctly, brainwashing programs of the lot.
That the entertainment, so-called entertainment industry, is actually just a kind of brainwashing control industry.
And you mentioned something very interesting.
You're a Floyd fan, as am I. And you said you reckon you'd spent, you'd listened to Dark Side of the Moon at least a thousand times.
And you said you could no longer listen to it.
Just remind us.
Remind us why.
Because there is a lyric in Time, which is the second tune, third tune on the album.
They all kind of bleed into each other, right?
Which is, hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way.
And that was so deeply embedded into me from my...
Childhood, right?
I think I say in that podcast that that was the cultural legacy handed to me by my father, basically.
The two things musically I got from my dad was Talk Talk and Pink Floyd, and more so Pink Floyd.
And, yeah, I've listened to Dark Side of the Moon hundreds of times, and that lyric, the whole album, really, is completely embedded into my psyche.
And I remember sort of listening to it going, hang on a minute here.
That's not the English.
Why is that the English way?
Why are you, Dave Gilmore, trying to tell me, young Englishman, that hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way?
That's got nothing to do with the English.
Who did write that lyric?
Was it Dave Gilmore?
He delivers the lyric.
I'm pretty sure it's Gilmore doing it.
I don't know who wrote it.
It might have been Roger Waters.
Between them, I've had to remove it completely from my listening repertoire.
That was a real big thing.
Like I said, it's ingrained into me from a very young age.
Then you look at that and go, hmm, okay.
So you've been trying to program us, have you?
We have to understand that.
That's an assault on your own people.
Because they're from Cambridgeshire, which is actually my kind of necker with the woods.
I was born in Buryston Edmonds, and I went to school in Cambridge for many years.
And one of the things Alex and I talked about quite a lot was Cambridge University and the absolute catastrophe that's going on there at the moment.
You know, you look at, you listen to that, you think, hang on a minute, why are you delivering that message?
What was it that you were thinking of when you did that?
And were you doing it under orders from someone?
Or, like, what was it?
Why are you trying to demoralise us and prevent us from taking, you know, decisive action?
Isn't that the English way?
You know, not hanging on in quiet desperation, you know.
Yes.
It's a very odd thing to have floating around culturally.
And I just sort of go, no, I don't want that.
I don't want that in my head.
Dave Gilmore and Roger Waters, thank you very much.
And then, you know, you look at how they live, and I think this is true for the music industry.
It's been true for the music industry for a very, very, very long time.
But I think that these bands...
And it's certainly true that anyone who's got a major label contract, and I think we talked about some of the grime artists last time, right, because we were talking about My Life, My Say, and the attack on the nation's youth, right?
But the current youth, Gen Z, I think it's been going on for a very long time, and you'll get people who are extraordinarily successful.
Famous celebrities, musical artists who are idolised, you know, actually held up as, you know, almost like kind of demigods, right?
And actually, in order to get into that position, you've had to betray the rest of humanity, in a way.
You know, and actually crushingly for them, and I think this is one of the most hideous things about it, is that when they're stood up on stage and they're delivering those lines back to us, You know, like that line that we just talked about from time.
You've essentially betrayed every single person who's in the crowd looking up to you and idolising you in order for you to get into that position.
It's a form of a spell.
It's as much of a spell as Lemmy at a heavy metal concert doing the horned hand symbol over the audience.
If there are normies listening to this, which there might be one or two that I haven't alienated with my sexist remarks and the bit where I had a go at you, they will be going, but it's just a lyric from the Floyd album.
Because people don't want to admit to themselves the extent to which they are culturally programmed.
Everyone thinks, I keep saying this, everyone thinks that they're immune to adverts.
Everyone imagines That adverts are for other people.
They don't get affected by adverts.
They don't have a subconscious.
They're stronger than that.
And that line, that Floyd line, I've heard it quoted by friends of mine.
Because when somebody like Dave Gilmore, he's cool.
He plays that kind of, those slightly shimmery guitar notes.
And he's got this...
Sort of laid-back, laid-back voice, and you've got the melancholy of the music and the fantastic production.
Do you think, by the way, what was it?
Why did that album sell so much?
Was it the production?
Dark Side?
Well, I mean, it's a phenomenal work of art, ultimately.
You know, it is.
And actually, when I first moved to London, my first office in London was in Britannia Row Studios, which is where that was recorded.
I think they did a couple there.
Darkseid and I think they did The Wall there as well.
And actually Nick Mason, I think he owned it because you'd see him knocking around and his daughter managed the building.
She had this Range Rover with pink F as the number plate.
So I always quite liked that.
But yeah, it's an astonishing piece.
It's an astonishing work of art, you know, and the kind of mythology around it and the fact that they were doing...
They were pushing the edge of what was technically possible, right?
I mean, like the...
The tape effects that they were using and just the kind of, you know, that kind of famous story where they were overdubbing so much and layering so many different effects onto the tape that it was actually wearing thin.
So, like, the actual magnetic tape, which is what the audio was being recorded onto, had been gone over so many times that it was becoming transparent.
You could actually see through it, right?
you know so it was kind of destroying the medium through the process of creation you know and um uh so that that that that whole kind of mythology around it is kind of fascinating and you know they're just great great tunes yeah but i kind of don't want i I'm aware of all the mythology.
Yeah.
I spent, what, 20 years of my life enhancing the mythology, burnishing it, adding little bits onto it and stuff.
I'm now re-examining my former pleasures, as you are, from a sort of post-Normi perspective, from an awake perspective.
And you start asking questions.
I think, for example, why, when I met Dave Gilmour at a party, did I find him...
I don't know.
There was something off about him, and I couldn't put my finger on it at the time.
I just thought, well, he's the guy from Pink Floyd, and he's incredibly famous and brilliant, and I'm just a mere mortal.
But now I think there's something else.
These people, as you say, they are selling their civilization.
They're selling us, ordinary people, down the river.
In the guise of providing us with art and entertainment, what they're really doing is poisoning our souls.
And stealing away our freedoms with lines like that.
And by the way, when you were, sorry to digress, but when you were talking about quiet desperation is the English way, I was thinking there are parallels to this line throughout certainly post-war culture.
Post-war British culture is full of it.
You think about whatever happened to the likely lads.
That's a classic thing of we could have been something, but we ended up...
And then you move from there to things like Shameless, where doll scroungers are glorified and the royal family as emblems of the real Britain.
We may be poor and we may be...
Grifters, or we may be bludgers, rather.
We're sponging off the state.
We're leeches, parasites, but we're good people.
We can still fart amusingly and make poo jokes and stuff, and we're lovable.
Endearing in our mediocrity, yeah.
They look at EastEnders, you know, any of these things that are on television that get presented as these grand national narratives.
It's declinism, isn't it?
Declinism as entertainment.
Yeah, exactly, yes.
Exactly that.
Or If.
Look at Lindsay Anderson's If.
The movie where the schoolboys...
Cheltenham College, well that's where it was filmed, go on the roof and they machine gun the headmaster and the chaplain during speech day.
Okay.
Have you not seen that one?
No, I need to see that.
Obviously it got ramped up, particularly in the late 60s, all these cool sort of rebellion chic things.
So Floyd were surfing that particular zeitgeist wave, weren't they?
Yeah, I think you have to understand it like that.
You have to.
And ultimately, he talks about acid as being a big old distraction and psyop.
Potentially, who knows exactly who was behind it and pulling the strings.
Maybe there was something seriously nefarious going on.
It wasn't just some organic upswelling of youthful...
Creativity and rebellion.
But, you know, that's basically what the Floyd were doing in the mid-60s with their kind of sound and light shows and everyone taking acid.
You know, it was this sort of deconstructionist thing.
And, you know, sonically, culturally, and...
Yeah.
Where has it left us, exactly?
What I'm sort of encouraging you to speculate on is...
Okay, it's a good album.
We like it.
But lots of...
The thing I've learned about music is that repetition and exposure is often all you need.
Like, for example, I decided once that I wanted to get into drum and bass.
I didn't like it.
I thought, well, drum and bass has got to be a thing I get into.
So I listened to it.
Quite a bit.
And I got into drum and bass.
I acquired a taste for it.
I think a lot of music is like that.
And what I'm saying is that there's a lot of good music out there that could have been a contender, but never was, because it didn't have the promotion.
And clearly, Dark Side of the Moon was massively promoted.
It got the best production.
It didn't just...
Become the biggest album of the year, well, probably the decade, by accident.
In the same way that Fleetwood Mac's rumours didn't.
It was in the charts for, like, 500 straight weeks or something like that.
I mean, it was crazy.
Well, you know what the biggest tune was on it, right?
Money.
Yeah, exactly.
Money.
Which is the worst track, by the way.
What?
I quite like money.
Do you?
It's horrible.
Money, it's a gas.
It's horrible.
It's trash.
It's nasty.
Right, James, but you've landed on the reason why it was so heavily promoted.
And actually, I was talking to my friend Patrick about this.
He's a Grime MC, and we were talking about Vibes Cartel or someone like that.
And basically, he used to do this...
This Bashman artist, he used to do conscious lyrics, talk about God and all that kind of thing.
And he got into a certain level and he was popular, but then he had to start making tunes about money and then the major labels would come along and go, right, you're in.
They want people to buy into the Mammon, ultimately.
Yes!
Material wealth and the selfish accumulation thereof, right?
That's the core of the culture.
Like Money for Nothing and the Chicks are Free.
I mean, why was that single so heavily promoted?
Exactly, exactly.
So, yeah, so the way that was the thing that really broke...
The Floyd in the US, as I understand it.
So it was that message.
And then you go, OK, well, who runs the world?
Well, the bankers run the world.
Oh, right, OK. Well, then, you know, there you have it.
You and Alex were talking...
Alex, I think, were saying, or you were saying, that actually the lyrics are more important than the music.
The music is a sort of delivery mechanism for the message, for the toxic message, whatever the...
Yeah, right.
I think what he was talking about, what did he say?
He said in the early days of the column that we would get a lot of kind of waifs and strays and refugees coming out of the music industry and coming to see Uncle Brian Gerrish and with their stories of the literal, like, the kind of, the fight that goes on.
And the value that is placed on being able to inject satanic ideas and literally satanic ideas, like lyrics and messages that they will create and even, you know, kind of...
I'm going to say consecrate, but whatever the satanic version of that is, because it's probably the opposite of consecrate, right?
There is a huge battle going on inside the mainstream music industry to be able to be the ones that are delivering this kind of corrupted satanic message out to the masses.
You don't have to go very far to find people.
I think I saw...
A video of one of the...
I don't know his name.
One of the members of...
I think it was Westlife.
Was he Shane something from Westlife?
One of the biggest boy bands of the 90s.
And he's just sitting there saying, yeah, this happens all the time.
You know, like this sort of satanic thing is totally getting pushed all the time.
And it's probably more so in the mainstream, the serious mainstream of pop music than it is in anywhere else, to be honest with you.
I think he even said that they say satanic prayers over the records.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
That's what he was saying.
That's what I just badly articulated a moment ago when I was trying to talk about it.
I'd love to get him on the pod, but the problem is it's only an agent contact number.
An agent's a...
They're just barriers.
They stop you getting anywhere near the person.
So that's their job.
But I was thinking, OK, I accept that Alex is probably right about the lyrics being the more important thing.
But I look back on all the music.
I listen to it like you.
I listen to a lot, lot, lot of music in my 20s and 30s.
The kind of music I was listening to was obviously the cooler kind of music, not the charty stuff.
But it was the kind of music that makes you feel enervated, lightly depressed, melancholy, nostalgic over a vanished world, slightly...
Prone to not doing anything.
And possibly lightly suicidal.
Are you describing the Smiths here, James?
No, that's the caricature of the Smiths.
I mean, I'm not saying that they don't live up to the caricature, but you can apply it to anything.
You can apply it to Mercury Rev. You can apply it to Kate Bush.
You can apply it to actually Led Zeppelin.
Right.
It all has this...
It's often in a minor key or the way the chord progressions work, which leads you to this kind of particular state.
In the same way that hip-hop makes you want to smoke a blunt, drive a car fast, you know, shoot somebody with your gat and stuff, and go out with your hoe and drink crystal in your fur.
Your fur coat.
Whatever.
With your gold jewellery.
In the same way.
I can see it now, James.
I can see you there.
You can see me doing that thing.
Yeah.
But I look back at a wasted potential.
I mean, I don't really have regrets about my normie youth.
But at the same time...
I think it's sad what it does to young men and actually women as well.
It creates a mindset which I don't think is actually conducive to a healthy, is that the right word?
A healthy culture?
That it is essentially satanic.
I suppose what it comes down to.
It's not godly.
It's certainly not godly, no.
No, no, no.
No, I think you're, yeah, you know, I think you're onto something in terms of the kind of the indie and guitar music and, you know, that kind of sound has always been a bit cynical and jaded, you know, a lot of it.
Definitely that.
Yeah, and actually, when I think about, you know, I still have a direct line of view into Acid House, like, big time.
You know, I spend a lot of time looking at what the promoters are doing, the clubbers are doing, the festivals in particular are interesting.
And I look at it, I'm like, hmm, do you know what?
This is just escapism, basically.
Like, it's hedonistic escapism, and it's designed to stop you from dealing with the...
Cold, hard, light of day realities of the situation that we're in.
That's what it's doing, actually.
You're just like, oh, do you know what?
The world is messed up.
And it's not fair, and it's going in a terrible direction.
So what I'm going to do is I'm going to go out all weekend, and I'm going to go to four different nightclubs, and I'm going to end up in my mate's kitchen on Sunday afternoon.
And at around 6pm, I'll start to get this crushing fear about the fact that I need to be in work tomorrow morning.
And then I'll spend the first half of the week feeling like...
Like death warmed up.
And then next weekend I'll just do exactly the same thing again.
And that's basically what I was doing for many years.
I was just on a tear-up for about a decade.
And the three C's, that's what I call it.
Cocktails, cocaine and cynicism.
That was what I was indulging in for a period of time.
Now that I look back on it with a bit of clarity.
And there's a lot of people who are just kind of stuck in that and, you know, that is what it is.
I was certainly in that myself for a long time.
But, you know, it's actually people's detachment from reality is becoming extremely dangerous now.
Because we're getting into the business end of some really nasty stuff.
There's some people who are doing things that should not be happening politically, economically, culturally, and we need to actually galvanise ourselves, unite as a nation, come together and actually cut through a lot of some potentially very, very complex and difficult topics for people to grapple with that just have to be grappled with if we're going to be able to progress effectively as a society.
And if everyone's just...
Running off into the darkness and going raving or whatever other people's distractions are.
Because it's classic bread and circuses stuff, James.
You can say the same thing about football, for example.
It's just that I was never into the football.
And I would.
Yeah, right, so would I. He's like, hang on a minute.
You're burning this much time and attention talking about these men playing kickyball, are you?
I mean, this is just ridiculous.
We've got serious problems that need to be addressed by adults.
And much work to be done in order for the nation to be thriving and successful, and people have got to get engaged.
Can we just say, this doesn't mean we don't totally love Matt Notissier.
He's the exception.
We totally just love Matt.
If we're going to be rude about Kiki Ball, then it is a stupid game.
We don't mean you.
You are a genius, and you're very special.
And he used to read the Telegraph.
Did you write the Telegraph, James?
Were you a Telegraph?
I did.
Do you know?
Yeah, he probably used to like Delingpole when Delingpole was at the Telegraph.
Maybe he did, yeah, when I was a Norman.
Before we move on to your plan to rescue us and other issues, I just wanted to talk to a fellow former druggie.
Oh, right.
No, drug aficionado.
I was thinking about what you just said, that drugs become the focus.
If you're interested in drugs, drugs become your focus of everything.
From the process of scoring them, which unless you're good at forward planning, which you're often not if you're doing drugs, is a sketchy last-minute thing involving encounters with people that you really shouldn't be.
Well, you certainly don't meet in the normal course of life.
Often in scuzzy situations.
I mean, the amount of life I've wasted waiting for the man or being disappointed by the stuff that the man eventually provides.
I mean, I never got mugged while I was beaten up.
But you do get yourself in these grim situations and your sole focus is...
Getting the medium by which you can just get completely out of it.
And then you get completely buggered on the drugs.
And then you spend the rest of the week, as you say, sort of dealing with the after effects of the buggerage.
And you can see why the rulers of the darkness of this world...
Really promote drug use and why it's so important.
Because it's a way of just destroying a civilisation.
Destroying people's will to achieve anything.
Yeah.
Or to resist.
Exactly.
It's exactly what it is.
Yeah.
Completely.
And we're just thinking, hey, it's cool.
Yeah, I mean, like, people who don't do drugs, they're so straight.
They're just boring.
Well, yeah, I mean, because you kind of, you know, I used to think like that, you know.
There's a sort of, like, mystique to it, you know.
It's a little bit edgy and a little bit glamorous and a little bit cool.
So actually, well, do you know what?
It's not really, you know.
Like, you might have paid £100 for that bag of Coke, like, if it's good gear.
But it's not a million miles different from just sitting around sniffing glue.
You know, like, you don't hold that up as a thing to be doing, you know, like, there's not much difference in it at all.
And you do talk some shit when you're on coke.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly.
You know, I've had conversations with people, friends of mine, that I know very, very well, and I'm sort of sitting there going...
I'm not actually talking to you right now.
I'm talking to that bag of drugs.
There's nothing about what's coming out of your mouth that's got anything to do with your personality.
It's just this kind of rage.
It dehumanises you.
Do you know the thing that's wrong with cocaine?
I have a friend, an old friend, called Mike J. And Mike J... He writes a lot about psychedelic substances and he's tried all sorts and he's researched the history and so on.
And he says the particular problem with cocaine is that, as you know, it's a derivative from coca leaf.
In its coca leaf form, it's a mild stimulant which keeps you, you know, when you're walking up mountains in the Andes.
Yeah.
With condors circling above you.
It keeps you going.
And it's like a sort of a pick-me-up.
But when it is turned into cocaine, it becomes this rather toxic thing that we were never really meant to ingest in that form.
Because what it does is it doesn't stimulate the pleasure receptors in your brain.
What it stimulates is the part of your brain that just wants more of this shit.
So, I mean, this is the worst thing about cocaine.
Barely have you finished your first line, and you're trying to look around and see where your next one's going to come from.
It's very Moorish, James.
Very Moorish.
It is.
You've expressed it more succinctly than me.
Yeah, that's the problem.
It is really Moorish.
And Moorish, but subject to diminishing returns.
Yes.
Exactly that.
It's the crappest drug.
It's a good way to waste a lot of money, I think, yeah, in hindsight, unfortunately.
So you've written about this, and I don't like doing hopium, and I personally don't believe there are any solutions, but God, I think we are just so completely stuffed that it's too late to do anything.
But you've written recently about...
Ways that we might get out of this?
Yeah.
Tell me, Pollyanna.
Tell me what your proposals are.
I think it's within our gift as creative beings with agency and vision and, you know, purpose to make things happen, basically.
And I launched the project.
Actually, I think I've been...
I think I actually mentioned it right at the end of the first podcast we did.
So it was coming up to two years ago.
So that was March or end of March, early April 23. I think it was the first time that we spoke.
I was talking about Genomics England and the genetic engineering of the population and all that kind of hideous stuff.
And one of the things that I am doing, and it's been building up since then, much more so of late, is this project called Pattern.
Not as in pattern lust for glory, the movie, but pattern.
Patterns, in patterns of behaviour and patterns of belief and technology and the things that are required that we can and should do on a consistent basis in order to drive ourselves and our people and our civilisation back onto a path of prosperity.
Basically, that's the game that we're playing.
How do we do that?
Well, so, first thing is, well, engage in free and open discussion about what we need, actually, you know, which actually turns out to be a lot less than what people are sold that we need when it comes to contemporary culture.
You know, this sort of consumerist, money-driven nightmare that we've been presented with as our...
We need to get back to a much simpler way of life, simpler system.
You know, that's the kind of starting point.
And then to understand that we actually have it within our gift to make change happen and we don't need to wait for...
external forces whether they're politicians or international billionaires or whatever it might be to come and fix the system for us we've kind of ended up in this situation where people are very I think this is a by-product of consumerism, ultimately.
Like, people spend their time complaining that they aren't being served properly.
It's like, OK, well, if you're not being served properly, first of all, should you be being served at all by, certainly, government, but also anyone else?
You know, to what extent is that a desirable end state for you or for our society?
We've got people who just expect stuff to be laid on for them the whole time, ideally for free, right?
Surely a barista can make a better flat white than you can.
Yeah, that may be true.
I can knock up a pretty mean flat white.
But no, there is room for business, certainly, right?
But it needs to not be international, corporation, globalised paradigm that we're in.
At the moment, we're certainly being driven towards.
And actually, one of the real strengths of our system here in England, in the West more generally, is that it's a market-based system.
To free market, ostensibly, you know, we can trade with each other and if I create something that has value for you and we can trade with each other because you can do something that's valuable for me and then it's within those micro-interactions, those transactions that we have with each other, those exchanges of value that society builds wealth and capacity and prosperity over time.
And we've just got to break everything right back down to the fundamentals that are required in order to sustain our existence at a micro level and stop trying to implement these great, big, unwieldy, centrally governed programs of whatever it might be.
And particularly not with the absolute shower that we've got in positions of power.
In the political system and in the city of London in particular I've been looking at a lot recently in the different corporate sectors because all they're trying to do is either to accrue as much power as they possibly can for themselves in the political system or as much money as they possibly can for themselves in the corporate system and or a combination of those two things and what they're not interested in is Mass prosperity,
you know, they're very much focused on driving all the power and all the wealth into the hands of an increasingly distant, not even 1%, it's like the 1% of the 1% who ultimately control absolutely everything.
And they're calling the shots across the board.
They control all the industries.
They control, certainly, the cultural conversation in the mainstream.
You know, we talked about the music industry.
You go to the top of the mainstream music industry, it's like, OK, well, who's knocking around up here?
Oh, it's all the same people.
It's the people who control the banks, the people who control big international corporations across every sector of society.
And actually, it turns out, oh, we don't need them.
No, we don't.
You're absolutely right.
We don't need them at all.
So the game then is to say, okay, well, what bits of the system that currently exists, if any, do we need?
Because it might be that we don't need any of it.
There are big chunks of it, particularly if you look in places like the financial services sector, which gets held up as this grand, you know, the jewel in the crown of the British economy.
It's like, no, most of that is just a scam.
It's a skimming operation.
There's no real value creation happening there at all.
So maybe we can just get rid of that.
Maybe we can get rid of 99% of what the pharmaceutical industry has turned into.
So we've got 99% of the financial services industry.
That's a lot of unemployed.
What are they going to do?
Is it a lot of unemployed?
Because actually, there's a lot of people in this country who don't have serious gainful employment on a daily basis.
Lots of people out there, many, you've got generations of people in some communities that have never been in proper work.
And actually, interestingly, if you look at, it's so funny, when you listen to people talking about, particularly lefty types, We'll just tax everyone and we'll just redistribute the wealth.
So, OK, well, if you actually look outside of the M25, you don't even have to look outside the M25. England as a whole, this country as a whole, is poorer than every single US state.
Right?
So even the poorest U.S. state, which I think is Mississippi, has got a higher average GDP per capita than the U.K. does.
And there are extremely poor U.S. states.
And so outside of the M25, and in reality, outside of the square mile, this country is completely on its arse, and it has been for quite a long time.
So this idea that we can go around collecting tithes and taxes from the counties and from the different bits of the population in order to fund these lavish social programs that the Labour government is promising to people, it's like, no, that's not going to happen.
There's nothing left.
It's been completely hollowed out by decades of globalisation and financial engineering and automation, importantly, and actually what I was doing, ultimately, and I've said this to you previously, I'll say it, I'll hold my hand up and say it, a lot of the digitisation that we did, Destroyed loads of jobs.
We didn't know that that was what was happening because I was young.
I started doing that.
I was in my early 30s.
I wasn't really thinking about it.
It was just what we had the opportunity to do professionally.
Now AI is coming along and they're going to do another job on everyone with that.
You know, actually Elon Musk is there saying, well, it's entirely possible that with artificial intelligence there will be no human jobs required at all.
So, okay, well, what's going to happen then?
You know, and people, a lot of people go, oh, well, that'd be great because then we won't have to work.
It's like, yeah, all right.
Have you seen what these people are like?
If you're not economically useful to them, then you're just trash, literally.
You're worthless, right?
So unless you can actually connect with your community and your culture and your nation.
And your history and your heritage and actually value humanity and build a civilization that works for everybody and that has a real long-term potential and is sustainable in the, you know, I'm talking about over centuries, over millennia potentially, that's what we need to be thinking about, you know, then...
Actually, these kind of extractive hyper-capitalist or hyper-statist approaches that are being pushed down onto us from this supposed global international elite and the kind of bureaucracy that they've put in place over the past several hundred years.
You know, we don't need any of it.
And if they continue implementing their plans, things are just going to keep on getting worse, ultimately.
You know, they are.
But Ben, you are kind of...
Preaching to the choir here.
No, no, sure.
So your question was, how do we get out of it?
And my response to that is, well, we build a new society ourselves to a specification that we set out, and we do that in a free market system, which is one of the key strengths of Western civilization.
And we build it from the ground up, and you go across all the different sectors of...
The industry, the industrial sector, the economy, starting importantly with agriculture, right?
Because if you can't eat, then nothing actually really matters much beyond that, right?
You know, you've got to have a food system that's viable and in place and secure.
And actually the ultimate kind of freedom is when, you know, I think, I can't remember where this quote came from, but I really quite liked it, where someone said, true freedom is looking out of your window and seeing one of your friends.
Growing the food that you were going to eat.
That's really quite a powerful statement.
So we've got to rebuild agriculture and some of that's going to be industrialised because we've got a lot of people to feed and actually the farmers are there and they've been doing a very good job for a very long time.
Some less so, and actually a lot of them have been sold on these hyper-industrialised extractive practices and some of them are part of the international banking elite and come out of the...
Private school system and the places where you and I went to school and that kind of thing.
And they're not interested in a lot of the working man at all.
And, you know, that's something that has to be dealt with.
But we've got to be able to be fundamentally self-reliant as a nation, you know.
Well, hang on a second.
Even during the Second World War...
We didn't achieve, I think we're only about 50%, or maybe a bit above 50% of self-sufficiency.
We were dependent on the convoys.
And so I think the idea that somehow, with a bit of industrialization, which I'm very suspicious of, by the way, Industrialisation, that's not my solution.
It's not industrialisation.
No, industrial farming, you were kind of saying we need it because we've got such a big population.
And I'm thinking, well, A, that's selling the past to big ag because glyphosate and stuff and...
Bad farming is depleting the soil.
I don't think we're doing it the right way.
But the idea that we can become self-sufficient in agriculture is hopeless.
We're going to need to depend on...
I know you like self-sufficiency and stuff, but ultimately this is going to have to work on a worldwide level.
We're going to need the Ukraine to give us some grain and Russia and probably Canada.
Well, it's interesting that Ukraine is one of the things that's been...
In the news recently?
I don't know if you noticed that Ukraine's been in the news recently, right?
No, no, no, wait, it was.
It was the thing, because when I was focusing on, I was brainwashed with COVID for a while, this terrible pandemic.
And then suddenly, I stopped thinking about COVID for some reason, and I started thinking about this country in a part of the world I didn't know really where it was on the map, but I knew that I had to put a blue and yellow flag outside my house in solidarity.
Is that right?
Yeah, that's why I've heard that that was the thing, the current thing, right?
And then Gaza took over.
Well, right, yeah, exactly, you know.
But yes, you know, you're right.
Of course they're trying to destroy the bread basket.
I mean, that is part of the master plan to starve us.
Absolutely, it's part of the master plan.
Of course it is, yeah, and people don't understand that.
They don't really understand what's going on, you know, and actually shows this drive away from what they call fossil fuels because actually a lot of the fertilisers that we've been using to grow the food that we need to support the level of population that we're at comes from the oil industry, right?
So you're going to turn that off.
You're going to make Ukraine barren and unfarmed for a period of however long that might be.
I'm not here saying that we're going to overnight become self-reliant agriculturally, but I think that you need to have a kind of guiding light as to where you think you would want to get to, and I'm not suggesting that we shut down all international trade or anything like that, but we've certainly got to become more self-reliant and as self-reliant as it's possible to be.
And I don't think it's...
And not just around food, around absolutely everything, you know, because actually food feeds directly into healthcare and actually, you know, we are what we eat and you want to fix the health system, you've got to fix the food system.
And, you know, people have got to...
We've become accustomed to really, really cheap...
Food, you know, and that has allowed us to indulge in consumerism in other areas, you know, to go on nice holidays and all that kind of thing.
But actually, food historically has not been as cheap as it is today.
And unfortunately, that has come at a price, as you ultimately all these things do, which is that the quality has gone through the floor and it's actually making us really sick.
So actually fixing agriculture, getting back to probably something, a word that I'm starting to hear more in the circles that I'm beginning to venture into, permaculture.
So actually we need to live in a much more sustainable and circular fashion with the land and definitely get away from these industrialised, agrochemical-based...
We've got to get away from that.
And actually, people need to get back to growing more of our own food, which is something that's completely disappeared from daily life over the past 50 years.
Everyone used to grow their own food.
I get this, but let me just point out some inconveniences for you.
Anyone who's tried...
Growing their own food recently, in the last three or four years.
Actually, people who've been growing it longer will be aware of how things have changed.
It's very hard to get things to germinate, increasingly hard to get things to germinate.
The sunlight is being blocked out by the chemtrailing.
The soil is being poisoned by the...
By the shit they're spraying us with.
It's very, very hard to grow your own.
You know, some things work, some things don't.
I have a vegetable patch, and it's very inconsistent.
So, yeah, I mean, everyone is listening to what you're saying and nodding their heads.
Yeah, of course, permaculture, great.
Of course, we've become more self-sufficient, yada, yada, yada.
Our people, we understand this, but we're not many, are we?
The people, the tinfoil hat brigade that you think...
I don't think it's tinfoil hat...
I don't think it's tinfoil hat-ish at all.
I think what you're talking about is just...
No, no, no, Ben, Ben.
It's just comments.
Don't misunderstand my tone.
Yeah.
Is what you just did.
No, but it's just common sense, right?
No, but I'm being flip.
No, I know what you're doing, James.
I know what the house style is.
It's fine, but it's not conspiratorial.
It's just basic stuff that needs to get sorted out.
What you have landed on is quite an important point, which is actually we probably need to have some kind of...
Serious reordering of what's going on centrally, you know, and whatever that looks like remains to be seen.
But, you know, rebellion, I think, is quite a good word that I like.
We've got to get to grips with what's happening in...
Not globally, because you can't get your hands around...
It's not a globe.
Well, OK, but you can't get your hands around...
The top layers of the system because those people are just completely detached from reality.
Their feet don't touch the ground anywhere.
But in order for their nefarious plans to progress, they actually need people on the front lines of local politics and local economies to implement the plans.
And these people are in our communities.
So actually, it's...
And they operate within a system that is knowable and can be manipulated and influenced by our actions.
Meaning what?
You mean we know where they live?
And so we can stop serving them in the local pub and that kind of thing?
Well, there's certainly...
Well, that could fit into it.
And yeah, we do.
I'm not saying...
Pointing things at anyone in particular.
But yeah, we do know where people live.
We know who they are because a lot of these people are elected representatives, for example.
And actually, one of the conversations I've been having recently, which was an interview I did for UK Column a couple of weeks ago, was this guy called Rajamir, who is a phenomenal bloke from Oldham, who is a...
We've basically been campaigning around this issue of grooming gangs and the fact that you've got top-level Labour politicians, social workers, police, the judiciary,
the media in the area basically covering up this issue of Pakistani grooming gangs who've been systematically raping children for decades and doing that basically with the blessing of Labour politicians because it will secure them, block votes and keep them in power.
He's basically just been going after them in the political system and just systematically removing a series of Labour leaders of the council and got them from 47 seats on the council down to 27 seats on the council and he's done it through the system.
It's all completely bug-bored.
What's he done?
He's a political campaigner.
He's been going door to door.
He's been talking to people about what's going on.
He's been actually doing the job that, frankly, the media is supposed to, which is to expose corruption and hold these people to account.
So he goes knocking on doors and says...
He's a political campaigner.
This is what he does.
This is stock in trade.
This is what he was trained to do.
And actually, he was a bit of an...
He's got an MBE, so he was an insider in the political system.
And, you know, actually a lot of what he was doing was about community cohesion, which is a word, a phrase that's popping up quite a lot at the minute, which I'm going to probably talk about in UK column in the next few weeks, because the people talking about community cohesion and trying to own that conversation are the ones that have been systematically destroying our communities for the past because the people talking about community cohesion and trying to own that conversation are the And he's been doing it that way.
But my approach is, firstly, I detest politics.
I absolutely detest politics.
And one of the reasons, you know, I worked in the markets because I just like to kind of do what I can do, what I do, the industrious things that I can do in order to create value.
And I don't want people to come along and mess around with that too much.
Right.
Maybe I do need to get involved a bit more in politics.
I certainly need to be more cognizant of it, but he's done it that way, and he's having some significant success.
Sorry, let me finish.
I'm going to be talking to him about what he's been doing.
Probably sounds like a model that can be emulated at grassroots.
And actually one of the most important things that needs to happen in terms of what he's doing is that there needs to be a total re-engagement and re-energisation of the working classes in this country to make them feel and understand that they do actually have political power and that they can make things happen that are in their best interest.
So that's part of this process.
But my bit of it, for me, what I'm interested in is...
Rebuilding key industries, starting with agriculture, healthcare, education, the energy system, media, actually, you know, what you're doing, what UK Column are doing, an absolutely fantastic example of what a distributed media ecosystem needs to look like.
We need loads of UK Columns.
Yeah, we need loads of people doing what Dell and Pulse is doing.
We need to completely replace what used to be, ultimately.
You think about what local newspapers used to be like.
You know, we used to have a pretty decent, in every single town, you'd have a well-resourced team of reporters and photographers who'd be going around reporting on local issues.
The internet has just completely destroyed that.
We need to get it back.
There was value in that, not least because it gives people jobs to do that they can earn from and they can get a sense of purpose and a sense of satisfaction from doing great work.
You know, that stuff's really important too.
Right?
And that needs to happen across the piece.
And my view, and it's not even really a view, it's just a true statement, is that we don't have to wait for anyone to give permission to do that.
We just get on with it.
Do something useful.
What needs to be in place in your immediate vicinity?
What assets have you got?
What capability have you got?
And do something.
And stop waiting around for Trump or...
Elon Musk or Farage a little bit closer to home or anyone in reform, frankly, or anyone anywhere in the mainstream of the political system or the mainstream media to come along and fix things.
They're not going to do it.
And we can just get on with it.
I agree with this, Ben.
Sorry to interrupt you.
Nobody watching this podcast is going to be going, yeah, he's talking bollocks.
That's really controversial and I can't relate to that.
Everyone's relating to what you're saying.
Okay.
So what are you doing then?
Well, I do this podcast.
You should listen to this podcast called The Delling Pod.
And I talk about these things.
In the, for want of a better word, Awake community, we do this stuff.
I mean, some people...
One of my great joys is, you know, when people bring me, instead of giving me money or, you know, buying subscriptions to my podcast, they bring me gifts.
Like, I've got Lisa down the road who brings me raw milk.
And I occasionally get the fluffits, fluffits, fluffits.
Free-range eggs.
Give me some eggs.
I like that.
I get lovely...
Somebody brought some butter to my last event.
And I really appreciate that.
And you really get a sense of how the world could look when we all sort of lived in harmony and peace and stuff.
But this is...
The people who are into this stuff...
And not the people we need to reach.
There's a whole area, a whole world out there.
People who, for example...
We've analysed one of the tricks they do, which is use the entertainment industry to brainwash us.
Another one they do, and we've again touched on this a bit, is that they corral the potential resistance to holding pens.
Or they distract them with things.
Like Jordan Peterson appeared at a certain time in order to stop angry young men rebelling against this corrupt system and instead getting distracted on becoming little Jordan Peterson fans and nodding their heads.
Making their bed.
Making their bed and standing up straight.
Standing up straight and going to arenas where Jordan Peterson talks to that boring guy.
While Douglas Murray moderates about some Marcus Aurelius or some such.
It's tiresome.
And in the same way, you've got GB News.
I want to see my dad today.
My dad is at least as far down the rabbit hole as I am, really.
And what was he doing?
He was watching Tom Harwood on GB News.
I said...
Why are you watching that wanker who looks like he's wearing lipstick and is a complete left arm?
He's the enemy of everything you believe in.
Why are you watching him?
And my father said, I like GB News.
And this is the problem, that GB News and Nigel Farage's Reform are...
Is it called the Reform?
Yeah, Reform.
Well, it's Tice, isn't it?
But yeah, Farage is the...
Yeah.
All the kind of...
Our potential market is being stolen away from us by these people working for the system.
Now, to go from where...
I gave you a good example of the problem.
Yes, we should grow our own vegetables, but they're chemtrailing the hell out of us.
They're stealing our sunlight, just like Mr Burns in The Simpsons, who was based, of course, I think it was modelled on Jacob Rothschild.
It's easy to say we should be doing more of this stuff, but most people won't even acknowledge that COVID, the pandemic, wasn't a real pandemic.
It was a military operation to steal away our freedoms.
So how do you get from your...
Wonderful hopium theory to practice, other than on a kind of tiny micro level, like people bringing me raw milk.
It's not a hopium theory.
It's a practical approach to rebuilding key components of the system that our civilisation rests on using the market.
No, it's not a theory at all.
We just described several examples of how this is already happening.
First one being your podcast, right?
But also UK Column, which is...
Effectively doing the job that, let's say, maybe the BBC is supposed to be doing, but certainly a decent local and national media organisation is supposed to be doing.
That's what UK Column is.
It's been going for 20 years, near enough.
What's its audience?
Significant.
I don't know the exact numbers.
I don't have access to that information.
But it is very influential.
I'm not a fan.
And it certainly has a lot of people in positions of authority in the country paying very close attention to what we're saying on a weekly basis, you know, like whenever the news comes on.
That's certainly the case.
But the thing is, it's actually an interesting moment because One of the consequences of a lot of this automation that's been happening, particularly the AI stuff, is you've got a bundle of people who in this sort of interesting moment in their career, you know, sort of mid to late stage career, you've probably still got another good...
10, 15, 20, maybe 25 productive years in them who've just been told by the corporate system that they're then surplus to requirement now and they can't get jobs.
You know, and obviously the DEI stuff and, you know, this sort of anti-male thing has been playing into that as well.
It's like, OK, well, actually, ignore them.
You don't need to pursue that path that you were being presented with.
And I myself was...
You know, I was in the corporate world and that was what I was doing to earn my money.
Actually, you can do something that is potentially less, you know, the kind of the upper level of it might be a bit lower.
You're not going to be earning half a mil plus a year as a partner in a firm, but actually you can do something that will pay you more than enough than you need and actually you'll have a lot more of a life and you can build it and own it and become a small business owner in it.
Any of the different areas that we've talked about.
You know, whether you want to get into the media, you want to get into education.
I think there's a huge opportunity right now for entrepreneurial teachers who actually want to set up private schools.
There's a lot of people, and I don't mean public schools.
I mean, like, actual, very small-scale, step-above-homeschooling type stuff.
And there's a lady that is one of the podcasts that I've done called Toni Buchan, who's got her own forest school out near Canterbury.
Phenomenal.
You know, and that's run as a business.
Great.
Let's have loads of those all over the place.
Aren't all these areas subject to regulation?
Absolutely.
And she does it all completely on the...
Above board, compliant with all the regulations that she's supposed to, and if you want to find out how to do that, go and talk to Tony Buckingham about it.
There's plenty of ways of doing things.
We don't quite yet live in a situation where everything is verboten that isn't completely dictated by the centralised control grid.
And actually, the sooner we get on with this, the better.
Frankly, people, you know, which is why I'm doing what I'm doing.
So a lot of this is all about ideas, basically, you know, get good people together.
So, you know, a lot of that is focused around the Substack that I'm running, pattern18, P-A-T-T-E-R-N-1-8-18.substack.com.
And there's links to the Telegram channel there, and I've got another community platform that I'm using.
We're potentially going to move to a new one, so the Substack's the best place to go.
And, you know, I've got a few thousand people that are there, and we are introducing interesting people and ideas and practical examples of people who are actually doing stuff that you can potentially emulate, right?
If you want to actually build something, then, you know, you can go and learn from there, and we can directly towards people who are doing other things elsewhere.
Online or in your local area.
And one of the most important things right now, we talked a bit about agriculture, is this assault on the farmers by the state and basically by the supermarkets, the corporate food system.
And actually, one of the biggest opportunities is people who can connect farmers with people in their local area and basically become a new middleman, essentially.
Because the farmers are going to have to keep on farming.
We need them in the fields doing what they're doing, frankly.
The more time that they're driving around Westminster in tractors, that's not a good use of their time.
You want them actually doing their job.
So actually, people who can step in and can help...
Improve the commercial situation for our farmers and get them access to customers in new ways.
That's a really, really useful and potentially very valuable proposition, not just in some kind of altruistic way.
I'm saying you can build a really decent business on the back of that and you can earn some money for yourself, which is how the system's supposed to work.
If you do something valuable, then you should be able to accrue value because of that.
You know, and there's this whole kind of culture that's popped up over the past ten years or so, and a lot of this was driven out of, like, the Cameron government, interestingly, for example.
This idea, like, oh, you know, capitalism's a dirty word, you've got to work for free, and actually you can't really own anything, because that's a bit grubby, and it makes you selfish.
It's like, no, our system doesn't run like that.
You know, our system runs on private...
Private wealth, a free market, the ability to trade with each other, but not to necessarily do that in a way that is completely selfish and extractive, which is really the most important component of this for me.
We've ended up in a situation where everything is about money or power.
Power or money, that's it.
And the political side of it is the power side of it, and the market, which basically means international capital and global corporations, that's the money side of it.
And when those two things get together, you're in big trouble.
But the thing that's been completely removed is what I call, frankly, righteousness.
It's what the church used to do, but the church is now run by pedos, as we've seen, because Justin Welby's just had to resign.
And don't get Satanists as well.
Literally, exactly that, James, right?
And the fact that, for me, the key bit of all of this, and this is not a recent thing, it's been going on for centuries, is the degradation of our spiritual institutions, which are actually there for ethical purposes and to protect...
Humanity as a divine expression of creation itself, right?
Like really profound stuff.
The fact that that's been removed from the equation is one of the most important things that has got to be addressed, you know.
But in the meantime, we can all do, we can all get busy and we can all build some things and actually that will be good for us and be good for those around us.
And I've actually just had a really great, a very uplifting and rewarding kind of eight week I've spent a
couple of years...
Editing and reconfiguring those to focus on people starting brand new projects, new businesses, new charities, new value creating systems is what I call it.
And we had a great time and we made a lot of progress and I think there's going to be some projects that come out of that in this country and also internationally because we had people from Australia, people from New Zealand who are part of the program that are going to turn into,
you know, have the potential to flourish and become Part of this new distributed cultural, economic, political system that we need to build in order to get away from this absolute tyrannical nightmare that is what represents mainstream politics and economic activity in the country at the moment.
And again, we don't have to wait for anyone to give us permission to do that.
We can get on with it.
We can do things of value.
We can trade with each other.
We can build things in the right way for the long term.
And we've got all of these huge assets of culture and wealth and technical capability and constitutional rights, importantly, because it's a big part of what I've been talking about.
There's a great guy who was actually on the phone too early called Will Keat, who is a constitutional...
He's enthusiastic.
He doesn't like the word expert, right?
But he knows a lot about our Constitution, Magna Carta, fundamental rights, the legal system in this country, trial by jury, how it's all supposed to work.
These things are being eroded along with everything else, right?
Right.
And actually, we've got to root ourselves in that and and and and actively build something that works, that is uniquely English.
And I can't talk to anyone other than the English because I'm English in England.
I'm not here trying to provide international solutions for anybody, because that would be frankly hypocritical and ridiculous, given what I've just been describing.
And we've got to we've got to we've got to pull together and we've got to we've got to buck up and we've got to get on with it.
Right.
And the sooner that we do that, the better.
You know, it sounds like your cup of tea.
Then come on down, people.
We're going to have a good time.
Well, I know you've you've persuaded me.
Ben, that there is...
If anyone's still listening after your awful sexist remarks and insistence I'm talking about chemtrails.
Nobody likes being called out for being unnecessarily woke.
Nobody likes that.
Anyway.
So...
I'm navigating a minefield, James.
That's what I'm doing.
But yeah, anyway, carry on.
Sorry, what was your question?
I've got one of those flail things that just...
You're driving a bulldozer through the middle.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I just don't have to take any shit from mines.
Where can people find your stuff and find out more about your projects?
So that question, the project I was talking about there is the best place to go is Substack.
Pattern18.substack.com and we're building things.
And I've got a big push on that this year.
And we're having some great conversations.
And there's some really good podcasts on there.
So come and check it out.
Come and hang out there.
And there'll be links to all the other places from there.
I also still run another substack, which is called Rise UK. And I divide these things into Rebellion and Renaissance.
So Rise UK is Rebellion.
And we're targeting corruption in the system and calling it out.
Pattern is all about renaissance and a rebirth of England, ultimately.
It's what we're aiming for, right?
And to kind of spark a new flourishing of civilizational growth.
That's the game that we're playing, using the free market, right?
And so those are my two projects, riseuk.substack.com, pattern18.substack.com.
And then I'm also on UK Column News on a Monday, ukcolumn.org.
And I love it.
It's the best job in the world.
And I'm going to be doing more stuff with them this year.
You don't have to go to Plymouth, do you?
I go to Plymouth.
I love going to Plymouth.
It's a great experience going to the UK Column Studio.
It's not quite a broadcast TV level in terms of the lights and the cameras and all that kind of thing, but it's certainly...
You know, it's heading in that direction.
And when you first go and sit in the studio, it's quite intimidating, actually.
How long does it take to get there?
Three and a bit hours on the train.
Six-something hours on the coach.
Do you stay overnight?
I don't always go there.
Sometimes I just sit in this room where I'm sitting now in North London.
I do it from here.
But I've been in the studio quite a lot recently.
I spent a couple of months at the end of last year down in Cornwall, which was great.
I love the South West.
I want to be in the studio much more.
The news has been great.
Getting into the rhythm of it on a Monday at 1pm UK time.
Come check us out.
Good things will be coming.
And actually, they already are there.
We just announced that we're doing an event, a UK Column Live, in April in Cheltenham.
So the last one we did in Bristol was fantastic, sold out, and just a great day.
And the capacity is going to be bigger at this one.
How many seats are you doing?
Oh, I don't know, actually.
The one in Bristol was 350, something like that.
You could easily double that.
Well, yeah, maybe we could.
I don't know the cap, actually, off the top of my head, but it's bigger.
It's one of the reasons that we took the venue.
It's bigger, and Cheltenham's a lovely bit of the world, and, you know, we're just looking at line-up and what have you, and, you know, it's going to be good fun.
Yeah, so coming on to that, and just, yeah, so it's those three things, really.
And also, actually, people...
I am starting to venture out into the music world a little bit.
I've got another substat running and I'm doing a bit of commentary.
It's called quiet desperation.
Yeah, that's quite a good idea.
It's the English way, you know.
Yeah, right, apparently.
That's what I used to think.
Or I thought that's what I used to think.
I thought that's what I used to think.
It's all this sort of self-effacing, you know, we're just...
Sort of bumbling English things.
Like, yeah, no.
Like, we used to run a global empire.
But Hugh Grant.
The entire career of Hugh Grant.
Yes.
Once you see everything with...
Once the scales have fallen from your eyes, you see through all the trickery.
Why did he have that career?
It's because he could reinforce the image of the bumbling Mr Bean.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, you're right.
It goes on.
Exactly.
It's the whole thing.
Hang on a minute.
That doesn't make any sense.
It does not stack up at all.
Let's just get rid of all of that and England's going to be about something different.
We need to get back to the dream of the rude and the seafarer and Beowulf, basically.
There are certainly a lot of people.
So actually, one thing people should check out, I think James was in the process of wrapping up, but I'm going to chuck something into the mix just at the end here, right?
There's a guy called The Woodlander, and I did an interview with him on the Pattern podcast, and he's got this thing called The Woodlander Initiative, where they're going around buying up plots of land so that people can go and build on them and live off-grid all around the country, and he's been living off-grid for 10 years.
And he doesn't even have a bank account or anything, you know, so he's actually living the dream of off-grid living.
I like him.
How do you get hold of him?
Smoke signals.
You have to build a campfire out in the garden.
Put me in touch.
He sounds cool.
He's really cool.
He's a really, really cool guy.
And he's actually doing a fantastic job at the moment.
They want to get it up to the point where they have land in every county.
And he's fascinating because when you kind of tap into what he's doing and his world, you do very quickly venture into Oldie England, heathen, paganistic type people who are living in the woods and they're completely disconnected.
They're out there.
They're literally out there.
Yes.
You come across...
They're still embedded into that culture.
You know, I'm personally Christian.
And I think that that has to be our future, I believe.
I think that the Christian Bible needs to be the foundation stone of the nation.
That's what I think.
And if I told myself five years ago that I would sit here saying that, I wouldn't have believed it for a second.
I just didn't.
But actually, when you go and read it, it's like, actually, yeah, they're describing loads of stuff that's happening right now around the world.
The same stone that the builders refused has become the headstone in the corner.
Yes.
Right.
That would be you.
Exactly.
We threw out everything.
We threw it all away for the sake of modernity and then we actually realised we had no idea what it was that we were getting rid of.
I don't know.
I think they brainwashed us into doing it thinking that we had any autonomy.
Yes, I think that's true.
We've established that these characters, these lifetime actors like Dave Gilmore...
And who was the person who came up with the quote about cricket?
About English are not a spiritual people.
Cricket was invented.
Wasn't it the guy who founded the Fabian Society, wasn't it?
You see, I didn't hear it because it was muffled.
You weren't articulating properly or something.
Not just then?
No.
On the podcast I listened to.
I was straining my ears to listen to.
Who are they?
It was Alex who said that, and it was...
Oh, goodness me.
I want to say it was...
Oh, dear.
Oh, it was George Bernard Sodding Shore.
Yes, that's it.
Of course it was.
Yes, that's it.
Yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
And do you know what, James?
Bastard.
Well, it's an interesting thing, isn't it?
Because then someone was thinking...
I can't remember if I just clocked this or if someone else mentioned it, but actually maybe cricket was introduced for that purpose.
So that our spiritual...
You know, that kind of, the depth and breadth of our spirituality was subsumed into this, not kicky-ball, but hitty-ball game, right?
And actually, that was part of the undermining of the British psyche over centuries.
It's potentially true.
Now, if you look at MCC, we're going to really get into the symbolism behind all of these things.
You know, MCC, C is the number...
Third letter, right?
So CC is 33. Right, yeah, sorry.
No, it's 33. And actually M is the 13th letter, so actually it's one and three threes, which is, that's Masonic.
So it's 13 and 33. So, okay, well, maybe they didn't bring cricket in to undermine us.
Well, that's suddenly why they did kicky ball.
Yeah, it's all a distraction.
All of this stuff's a distraction.
I'm not averse to, you know, It's a bit of decent competitive sport, but people's obsession with all of these things, to the exclusion of everything else, has been extremely destructive.
We've got to cut through all that.
There'll be time for celebration and fun and all that kind of stuff when the jobs are done.
But there's a lot of jobs to do right now.
So, anyway.
Ben, as always, I've got to go to the gym now.
You wouldn't get to look at me, but I'm actually quite in need of bulking out, putting on some muscle.
As always, it's been really interesting to talk to you.
Pleasure, James.
I know, it's been great.
It was a free-form one this time.
The last two, we had a very clear agenda and we've gone all over the place and it's been a joy.
Thank you.
Yeah, I liked the agenda-free ones.
And, you know, keep it up.
Keep doing all your good things.
And I'm glad nothing's going well for you.
If you enjoyed this podcast, how could you not have done?
Do consider being one of those very special people who supports me on Substack or Locals.
Or if you don't want to get early access, you get to see my stuff a week ahead of the game, or maybe even ten days.
I can't remember what the...
Get that special...
Bragging rights.
Bragging rights, yeah!
Oh yeah, I heard...
What do you mean, have you heard the latest podcast?
I heard it ten days ago.
What do you mean?
You're just catching up now, you.
You're obviously not a subscriber.
Or if you don't want that bragging rights, then you can just...
Buy me a coffee.
Or lots of coffees.
Or you can support my sponsors.
Or just freeload.
Carry on freeloading if your conscience can wear it.
Anyway, thank you again, Ben and Rubin.
And yeah, thanks to UK Colin for all you do as well.
Let's get Alex back.
And thanks very much.
That's it.
Thanks, James.
You're great.
Are you uploaded?
Err...
You...
Global warming is a massive con.
There is no evidence whatsoever that man-made climate change is a problem, that it's going to kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to deal with it.
It's a non-existent problem.
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition to my 2012 classic book.
Watermelons, which captures the story of how some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.
It's a shocking story.
I wrote it, as I say, in 2011, actually.
The first edition came out.
And it's a snapshot of a particular era.
The era when...
The people behind the climate change scan got caught red-handed, tinkering with the data, torturing till it screamed, in a scandal that I helped christen Climategate.
So I give you the background to the skullduggery that went on in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were informing us, we've got to act now.
I rumbled their scan.
I then asked the question, OK, if it is a scan...
Who's doing this and why?
It's a good story.
I've kept the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end, explaining how it's even worse than we thought.
I think it still stands up.
I think it's a good read.
Obviously, I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.
You can buy it from jamesdellingpole.co.uk/shop.
You'll probably find that one.
Just go to my website and look for it, jamesdellingpole.co.uk.
And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring round all those people who are still persuaded that, "Oh, it's a disaster.
We must amend our ways and appease the gods, appease Mother God." There we go.