Paul Cudenec is an anarchist whose Winter Oak Substack produces some of the most informed detailed and punchy essays on the ‘demonocracy’ and the encroaching New World Order. He has come reluctantly to believe that the world is a criminal empire run by one family in particular. In his booklet Enemies of the People - available here free https://winteroak.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/enemiesofthepeopleol.pdf - he names names.
https://winteroak.org.ukhttps://substack.com/@paulcudenec
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Welcome to The DellingPod with me James Dellingpole.
I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but before we meet him, let's have a word from one of our sponsors.
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Welcome to the Delling Pod, Paul Kudnick, which I understand is your pseudonym.
Yeah, it's my writing name.
Yeah, yes.
When I was originally started writing, I was still working as a professional journalist on a local newspaper in the south of England, and, you know, they had to be kept apart, put it that way.
Right, right.
And you live in France, as we discovered, because I got my time zones wrong, and kept you waiting for an hour before we started this chat.
Yeah, well, I was getting on with other stuff most of the time, so it's not a problem.
Well, I like to think you were sort of chopping logs and things, and I don't know, whatever one does.
I mean, I imagine you live in rural France?
Yeah, yeah, it's a village in rural France, yeah.
And do you have sanglier wandering through your backyard and stuff like that?
They did, actually.
I wasn't here.
I was away, and when I came back, the lawn was just completely destroyed, and people told me that a family of wild boar had wandered in and had done their worst.
That's a good guess.
Sorry.
So I hazarded a good guess on this, because I have this idea of living in France, and it is quite an idyllic scenario in my imagination.
Is it like that still?
Is it possible to live the good life and sort of retreat from the world in France?
Is it big enough?
Yes, it's twice the size of the UK. With about the same population.
So there's a lot more space to play with.
I mean, I always lived in the southeast of England, which is, as you know, very crowded.
So to me, it feels like a place to be here.
I suppose my bigger question, really, I mean, I was aware of the kind of the disparity in kind of population density, but I was thinking more.
Okay, so you've got lots more rural space, but can you escape the system?
Can you sort of live more or less away from our dark overlords, or does it get you even there?
No, not really.
I mean, when we found that out when COVID happened, of course, you weren't supposed to go out of your house without an attestation.
Which was a form that you could either print out from the internet or you could handwrite it, giving you a writing.
I wish I did because I haven't got a printer.
And you had to fill in a form saying who you were and where you were born and saying that you hereby authorise yourself to go and buy your necessary shopping from one certain time to another certain time.
Of course, it was ridiculous to certify yourself, and there were lots of ways of cheating, but the gendarmes were patrolling the village and asking for these bits of paper.
So, you know, and in fact, in rural areas, it seems to have been worse than in urban areas, because when there's thousands of people wandering around some suburb of Paris, they can't go and check everyone.
But when there's not many people around, they were, you know, checking all of us from time to time.
Yeah.
I'm glad I asked you about that, actually, because...
Although four years ago seems a very long time ago, like ancient history, at the same time, how different countries behaved during the COVID nonsense was a good indicator, wasn't it, of how they might be in the future.
So I was in Colombia early last year.
And I was thinking, oh, wouldn't Colombia be a great place to go and live?
Because these people, they would never put up with the nonsense we had to put up with during COVID. And then you read up about it and you realise that actually the restrictions were far worse in this apparently free country where they're all eating these delicious bananas from roadside stalls and with their carefree Colombian lives.
And, you know, you look at Italy.
And Italy was, we love the, everyone loves the idea of living in Italy, but you only had to look at how the Carabinieri and stuff behaved during COVID to realise that it's very easy for these free and easy countries to become fascist states.
Yeah, obviously it had happened in Italy before and in France during the Nazi occupation and the Vichy regime.
And I think I've always, as a lover of French society and culture, I'd always had this romanticised view of the French as being freedom fighters.
But French friends reminded me when COVID happened that the vast majority during the Second World War went along with the occupation and with Vichy.
And there's only a tiny percentage that were actually in the resistance.
And you see that side of society when an event like that happens, you know.
Now, am I right in thinking that, like, ten years ago, you would never have spoken to the likes of me or you wouldn't have considered me a natural bedfellow?
Because were you on the hard left?
Would you describe it that way?
I've never described it as the hard left.
I mean, I was involved in the anarchist movement, but a lot of anarchists don't really relate to the left.
Sorry.
Well, I mean, no, I'm not sure the anarchist movement does count.
That's a different thing, isn't it?
So you weren't ever a sort of proper lefty?
No, I never, never, I would never, never.
Really fully identified.
Obviously, a lot of the things I've been saying and doing have chimed in in the past, chimed in with the left outlook.
And I found myself working alongside people from, you know, people from the Socialist Workers Party, although they proved to be...
Quite tricky characters, and I've not got a good opinion of that organisation.
And even lately, actually, when I was reporting on the Gilets Jaunes, you know, the yellow vest uprising in France, and because I was working for an independent journalistic...
A collective, anarchist one.
They'd got contacts in the sort of left media.
And I found myself reporting for the Morning Star, which obviously is the Communist Party favourite.
Although I've never been at all a big fan of communism.
And I published a booklet last year, I think it was now, or the year before, called The False Red Flag, really exposing everything that I think is...
It's bad and wrong about communism.
So I'm one of those people that is...
I'm hard to place, maybe, politically.
You know, I'm an anarchist, yes, but on the left-right divide, I don't identify with either.
Right, so, I mean, were you...
Well, you weren't an anarchist when you were born.
Well, you probably were when you were born, but tell me about your sort of...
Well, it happened by the time I was 30. I can identify that I was an anarchist then.
Prior to that, I'd been drifting around in a sort of in-between world.
I certainly would be considered a sort of subversive, I suppose.
You know, I was an anti-system.
I started off, actually, when I was a teenager.
When I was a teenager, I was...
Very patriotic in my outlook.
And gradually that wore off when I saw what the British state amounted to.
And instead of adopting a nationalistic approach, I realised what I was in favour of was in fact self-determination on every level.
So it's because nationalism just says the nation must be free from international or global.
But I think, you know, I thought, well, no, it's that it goes further than that.
Regions and communities and, you know, should all be free from the next layer up.
In fact, the whole power pyramid should be reversed and, you know, power should be invested in the grassroots down to the individual.
In fact, we should be living in what's sometimes called a voluntarist society.
I'm not keen on the word because it's a bit clumsy, but where power is.
It emerges from below rather than being posed from above.
I thought I was inventing this whole idea at the time, you know, when I was 20-something.
And then people said to me, I think you'll find, Paul, that's called anarchism.
And they handed me some books about anarchism.
And I said, oh yes, so it is.
It exists already, right?
I've now got to learn, I've got to be humble and learn about anarchism and start, you know, start at the bottom of the anarchist world to find my, you know, to find my way into it and develop my thinking through that.
So that was that stage.
Right.
Yeah, anarchism.
I'm coming round to the view that that The knee-jerk people have when they hear the word anarchism is yet another successful psyop.
You know, you tell most people who are an anarchist, I bet you've had this one, they say, oh, what, try living in Somalia then, you know, or they think it means, automatically means militias running riot and killing everybody, and that's not presumably your anarchist dream.
No, no, no.
Well, I mean, obviously, anarchy is just a state of not having rulers.
It's like monarchy is having one ruler and anarchy is having none.
And it's predicated on the idea that without a ruler, things would work fine.
I mean, it's predicated on the idea of natural order, that organically we're quite capable of running our own lives as communities.
And in fact, the imposition of central authority.
way of running things and they're a real grassroots democracy by which we can people people sort out their lives together and so it's the opposite of disorder and chaos yes it i think it's very hard to get over one's conditioning which is that we need things like
A strong police force and a strong military and a strong government, because that's all that lies between us and absolute chaos.
And I'm thinking, actually, most people don't go around stealing things because they're...
don't not steal things because they're afraid of the police.
They don't steal things because they don't...
They know instinctively that stealing is wrong because it's taking somebody else's property and they can empathise with their potential victim and they recognise that if other people had a similar sort of thieving attitude, they themselves would suffer.
So I suppose it's a sort of natural law, inbuilt moral compass that people have that I think would be a good argument for.
Your sort of anarchist philosophy, is that right?
Yeah, absolutely.
That's the way I see it as well, that we do have innate intuitive ideas of what's...
What's right and wrong?
What's good and evil?
And we're told now in modern society that we don't, you know, that we're just born as blank slates and can basically be programmed to be whatever the state wants us to be, you know, through behavioural sciences and the rest of it, which is horrible.
It's one of your French's that came up with that one, wasn't it?
The blank slate.
I mean, the French...
I know you love France and all that, but the French philosophers have done some...
They've wrecked carnage, haven't they, in the world's intellectual thinking.
I'm thinking about Rousseau.
Rousseau?
Well, I don't think Rousseau was.
I think Rousseau was Derrida or something like that.
That goes without saying that the early 20th century French philosophers or mid-20th century, they were absolutely the pits.
But I think Rousseau Laid the groundwork.
And probably, was Voltaire a goodie?
He probably wasn't, was he?
I don't know, actually.
He's sort of in between somewhere.
I mean, things, you know, it's...
I mean, one of the contributors to the Winter Oakside, W.D. James, is a great fan of Rousseau.
I haven't really studied Rousseau, so I'd, you know...
Opinions are divided, maybe, on whether he was a part of the Slippery Slope or one of the last sort of modern representative.
Who expressed old ideas in a modern way, perhaps.
I get the impression, reading your stuff and just following you generally, that you're pretty much where I am.
That the world is run and has been run for a very, very long time by these very, very dark, malevolent, malign figures.
And that the people that they choose as their, or they're allowed to be promoted, say, whether it's becoming the kind of philosopher of the day or whether it's becoming the best-selling author or whatever, they're basically their little helpers.
They're like Satan's little helpers.
So, of course, Rousseau was a wrong one, and of course Voltaire was a wrong one, because they all were.
As Mary Finch says, if you know the name, they're in the game.
I think that's probably true, more or less.
No, it certainly is today.
And there has been a deliberate shaping of our view of the world and a deliberate falsification of history going along with it in order to allow the advance of a certain agenda.
Well, I don't know.
Have we got time to talk about this as well as the other thing?
I want to talk mainly about your fascinating...
up right more than a pamphlet isn't it it's a kind of where you say look a lot of people say oh it's it's lots of families who run the world you know it's not just them it's also the Rockefellers and stuff and you're saying nah nah it's one family that runs the world but I think we should talk about that for our main course I first saw you on a screen in front of me
I'm sorry I didn't get to meet you in person.
I went to that thing in Moldova that Yuri Roska, his sort of symposium of fellow tinfoil hat nutcase outcast loons, and you delivered a speech via the internet.
Were you talking about the First World War?
I was talking about...
Partly about the First World War, yeah.
I think it was wars and resets in general, the way that these sort of shock and awe tactics are used to advance an agenda.
Yeah.
Maybe you can expand on that.
But before you do, I wanted to ask you, when you were going through your patriotic phase, were you, as a boy, were you quite into...
And like, you know, wouldn't it have been great if I'd been a soldier and I'd fought the Nazis or whatever?
Yeah, maybe it was more the sort of the French resistance or something like that in my personal.
But yeah, the idea of...
Yeah, I think at one stage when I was very young, I thought I might want to be in the Royal Air Force or something like that, you know, when I was about 12, I suppose.
So you do have that romantic idea of, you know, of defending your country and the rest of it, which I think is partly natural, a sort of, you know, a natural response, but also is sort of drummed into us, isn't it, by our society and by our education and by the television and the rest of it.
I've just got a book recommend for you.
I just cropped up in my head because I've just finished reading it.
I think probably the best autobiography I've ever read of a World War II fighter pilot by a French guy called Closterman.
Pierre Closterman.
And he was in the Free French Air Force but attached to the RAF. Really, really good book.
Really interesting.
Anyway, just park that.
I can't remember the title.
But yeah, so you were in the French Resistance and the RAF and I was in all sorts of imaginary branches of the army fighting the Jap, fighting the Hun, doing all this.
And in the last three or four, five years, I've come to see war as evil and never...
In the interests of the people fighting them.
I think, left to our own devices, we'd all much rather be at home, chopping logs and shagging the wife or whatever, looking after the kids, going for walks and stuff.
We don't really want to be bayoneting people and seeing the whites of their eyes as they die.
This stuff is imposed on us and has long been imposed on us by What I call the predator class.
You may call something else.
Tell me about your views on war and World War II and I. Well, yeah, funnily enough, I came to the same conclusion as you last night.
I was watching the Soviet film adaptation of War and Peace.
Oh, yeah.
It's a fantastic film.
It's just these scenes of all these...
Thousands and thousands of men dying and the smoke and the horses being turned into pulp and all the rest of it.
And I thought, this is really evil.
Whoever organized and orchestrated this is some kind of satanic psychopath.
It's like a sort of mass sacrifice to some hideous god.
I do think that's probably getting close to the truth of what lies behind it as well, as well as all the other material advantage that is made of war.
It's really hideous.
Words can't express how vile such and such happenings are, for me.
Do you know what?
There's a really interesting bit.
I won't spoil it for you, because I like to spoil it, really.
But right at the end of this, this French fighter pilot is very, very lucky to survive the war, because he joins in 1942. So he's not there for the Battle of Britain, but he's there.
The war actually gets nastier and nastier towards the end, as the Germans are fighting for their own territory.
And, of course, people fight much harder when they're actually on their...
On their homeland, defending their wives and stuff.
But the weaponry gets more advanced than just generally.
And we're in about March, April 1945, so really, really close to the end.
And he's with this squadron where sometimes they'll go out, eight of them will go out, and only two of them will come back.
And this is the period when the war has been won.
There's no way that the Allies are going to lose.
There's no real justification for six out of eight pilots, probably fresh out of flying school, being sacrificed in this completely pointless way.
And the end of the war suddenly is announced.
And the surviving pilots go to the officer's mess and nobody says a word to one another.
They just sort of have a pint on their own and then just go off to bed or they read a book or whatever.
And everyone is feeling really, really, really bitter.
And they're thinking, what the hell did we go through all that for?
Who are the people who are making these decisions where our lives can just be Written off just like that.
And I think that you get little moments like that from the participants of wars where they show you what war is really about.
And it is, as you say, I mean, you were absolutely on the money.
I'm so glad you said that.
They are a satanic blood sacrifice.
They literally are.
It's not even metaphorical.
I was at one of those boarding schools where the most important...
Service in the chapel calendar was Remembrance Sunday, where you'd parade and stuff outside the big school and you'd remember the glorious dead.
And I realise now, with hindsight, that this was programming.
This was training us all to accept our lot, to be sacrificed in the next...
In the next confrontation arranged at the behest of our satanic overlords.
It's not really about memorialising the glorious dead.
It's conditioning.
I think you're right.
And it's telling that the word sacrifice is used when talking about people killed in the war, isn't it?
It's barely hidden.
There are two very important books I read about the First World War.
I don't know if you've read them.
Two Scots historians called Jim McGregor and Gerry Doherty, Hidden History and Prolonging the Agony, they're called.
And basically they reveal with compelling detailed evidence that the First World War and how the First World War was manufactured deliberately and kept going deliberately when it could have ended a lot sooner and saved a lot more lives.
And that was what really set me on the path to that talk that I gave to the Moldovan event and to a lot of other things, actually.
Those were two very important books in my recent political, if you can call it political, recent research and evolution of my understanding of the world.
How did they prolong the war?
I mean, I can sort of imagine, but give me a bit more detail.
Well, they were stopping...
They were stopping any breakthroughs when they were arming Germany.
I'm trying to remember now because it's a while since I read it.
They were ensuring that there were still oil supplies and munitions supplies to Germany.
I think the oil was coming from Romania where the oil fields had been taken over by a certain financial interest that maybe we'll come back to talk about later.
And all sorts of rules.
There was the Belgian relief scam, which was supposedly about providing food for the starving Belgians under German occupation.
In fact, they weren't starving.
They had food.
They were still producing food in Belgium and feeding the population.
What happened was all the aid from America and Britain and so on that came into Belgium allowed Either went straight to Germany or allowed Belgian food to go to Germany to keep the German population alive so that they weren't forced to surrender and thus bring to an end this marvellous profit-making opportunity that had been dreamt up since the end of the Boer War, basically.
So do they go so far as to suggest that at the very highest levels that the supposedly opposing...
Warring nations are actually in cahoots.
Is there a kind of...
Well, there are, but I think it's perhaps not to the knowledge of the politicians involved that this was happening.
It was behind the scenes.
It was the deep state, as we'd call it now, behind each, which was aware of this.
The Moana group, for example.
Cecil Rhodes.
Yeah, that's right.
That's exactly who they were talking about.
I mean, they quote Carol Quigley quite a lot, which then sent me off to reading his two best-known books, Tragedy and Hope and the Anglo-American Establishment, which were very interesting.
I mean, Tragedy and Hope in particular is enormously long, and there's a lot of detail in there.
It wasn't particularly relevant to what I was looking for, but I read it all.
And when you read it all, you come across these little passages that are just like some lightning strikes of clarity as to what we're looking at.
Yeah, it's funny.
When I first went down the rabbit hole, one of the first things I did was buy Tragedy and Hope by Carol Quidley.
And I thought this was going to be the book that would explain everything.
But, as you say, It requires patience and endurance.
It's not a book that lays it all out for you and says, right, here are all your conspiracy theories explained and backed up.
You've got to find little nuggets.
It's not an easy read.
It's quite arid history.
It is, but the great thing about Doherty and McGregor and their books is that they do take what he says and they take Niall Ferguson who wrote He wrote the biography of the Rothschilds, didn't he?
And I was coming across quotes from him in their book and thinking, did he really say that?
Because he's a sort of establishment historian.
Surely he wouldn't have revealed something like that.
I read his book as well, and he does, he does, but it's all cloaked.
I mean, more so even than with Quigley.
It's all cloaked and very favourable.
A narrative that's quite favourable to the Rothschilds because he was given, he was allowed access to their family archives and the rest of it.
But when you actually read all of it and you read between the lines and all you, you know, you remove all the padding and the superfluous material, you know, you've got what you need.
And I mean, it was those, what we've just been discussing.
Plus another book I read about the Rothschilds in French, which...
I came across in a very random manner in a local village market.
At the time when I was researching all of that, I came across this book and I thought, right, you know, this is a gift.
Obviously I'm going to buy that.
It was only about two quid or something.
It was a second book.
So all those books I've mentioned were what then led me on to put together the booklet I wrote in 2022, which is called Enemies of the People, which is looking in some detail at the Rothschilds.
I've probably leapt ahead of what we're supposed to be discussing.
Well, not really.
I mean, I think sometimes the time for foreplay has to come to an end, and you have to move on to the main event.
Because, actually, I thought it was a point well made, and I don't know whether you're right or whether you're wrong, but one certainly hears...
When you go down the rabbit hole, let's take a step back, when you go down the rabbit hole, You investigate all these conspiracies and you see they're all true, pretty much, apart from maybe one or two that have been thrown into distractors.
And at some stage you start asking, OK, well, who's behind this?
First of all, you go, why are they doing this?
And then you quickly realise that this is a plan to cull us, to control us, to immiserate us for the sheer hell of it, to...
Sacrifice us to the devil to trade us for sex or adrenochrome or whatever.
All this stuff.
So you get that.
And then you go, well, who's behind all this?
And if the power structure is pyramidal in shape, who's at the very top?
Who's king of the world?
Who are the families that give the orders?
And then you come across concepts like, you must have come across this, the 13 bloodlines families, satanic bloodline families.
And you come upon the black nobility, which are the kind of, I think, the old Roman families, which are kind of rebadged as Venetian families.
And so it goes on.
And you're told that these families can trace their their lineage back to pharaonic times and Babylonian times.
Well, it is.
I mean, it wasn't a...
I didn't start out with that thesis.
I didn't start out thinking, that's my opinion, and I'm going to set out to prove it.
That's just what, you know, several years now of reading and researching have led me to the inevitable conclusion.
To start with, it was a tentative conclusion, which is why I did a lot more reading, because they kept cropping up and so on.
And the more I read, the more I looked.
Yes, it is.
They're behind everything.
Everywhere I look, it's them.
It's them and their networks.
It's the same ones.
I started, actually, first in that sort of direction.
I mean, this has all sort of vastly come about because of COVID, vastly accelerated because of COVID. I was interested in that sort of thing, like a lot of people.
But, you know, this has been really the motivation behind this deep research.
And first of all, the first thing I did was I read the three books by Klaus Schwab, which a friend finally provided me e-books of those.
They're not a happy read, they're a terrible, terrible verbiage, Klaus Schwab's books.
But that left me with realising that he was really pushing a fascist agenda.
That's how I described it.
I wrote an article that did the rounds called Klaus Schwab and his great fascist reset.
And then I realised that the Great Reset had been launched by Charles, now King Charles, officially launched.
So I thought, that's odd, you know, what's the connection between the British monarchy and this sort of Klaus Schwab and his fascism?
So I looked at Charles' networks, like the Business and the Community and the Prince's Trust, which is now the King's Trust.
And I discovered that this was all the same business organisations that were involved with the WF. And it was, you know, it was the Bank of America and PepsiCo and HSBC and Pfizer and AstraZeneca.
And it was all the same.
Hang on, that's why he was...
Officially launched in the Great Reset because he's part of that same thing.
And when I looked at what was happening in Canada and Australia and New Zealand, which were some of the worst places for repression during the COVID, it's a Commonwealth thing, isn't it, as well?
So I looked at Commonwealth and looked back through.
I read all the Commonwealth documents going back from its conception.
And they're talking about development.
Sustainable development lately, but development was the main thing, and development is money, isn't it?
It's industrialism and making money, and this was all linked in with the United Nations, of course, and the World Bank.
It's the same little family of organisations, but on all of this stuff happening, everywhere I look, it's the same, it's the same.
And behind the central banking system is the Federal Reserve.
You know, I mean, it's the Rothschilds.
It's the Rothschilds.
I mean, you know, there's no two ways around it.
And I don't know where all these black nobility and the rest of it fit into the story.
Maybe they existed on a historical level.
Maybe they're still there in the background.
Maybe they're one wing of this Leviathan.
But they're not running it.
I mean, it's quite obvious he's running it.
So, just going back a second, you said, look at all the people that are behind all this.
There's Pepsi and there's Bank of America and there's the Commonwealth.
Are you saying that all these organisations are Rothschild-owned or created?
Well, I mean, I know it sounds...
I mean, sometimes I say to myself, that sounds ridiculous.
But it's not something that's happened overnight.
What has happened is they've spent...
They spent 200 years at least building this up.
And by means of a number of films, because there was a time towards the end of the 19th century when people were very wise to the power of the Rothschilds, particularly on the left.
They were sort of, you know, they were the representatives of capitalism, you know.
People knew that they were the richest family in the world and owned and controlled so many things.
So I think they realised that they were going to come across resistance if they carried on or not, that they had to hide their power.
One of the ways they did that was in the United States.
I think it was particularly important in the United States to hide their control there because they were not only British, which obviously doesn't go down well in an independent America, but also Jewish and, you know, anti-Semitism.
Was and is a real thing, but they, you know, even though it's subsequently been instrumentalized in a hideous manner.
But so they had to hide behind other people.
And one of the one of the peoples they had behind was J.P. Morgan in America.
And subsequently, you know, there was the Rockefeller angle.
This is this is bringing us on to the to the most recent bookshelf that I brought out.
Because people always say, when I talk about the Rothschilds having established this control, yeah, of course they're important, but there's other families like the Rockefellers, because they appear to be rivals.
That's the story, they're business rivals.
Well, they were more than 100 years ago, but they were engaged in secret talks, the two families, as long ago as the early part of the 1890s.
At which point the Rockefellers' money started being moved into Rothschild banks.
And, you know, from what I'd read, I understood that the Rockefellers was in fact just a shell.
I mean, the family exists, but they're really just a shell for the Rothschilds' interests.
Right from the beginning?
Right from John Dee?
Well, at a certain point, I think they were their rivals, and I think the Rothschilds won.
You know, they won the battle, but rather than, you know, say, right, you're finished, we're now the bigwigs, they said, no, you carry on, carry on.
But, you know, actually, they had the controlling interest.
They allowed him, you know, he was still alive then, but, you know, they've allowed the Rockefellers to maintain the facade of being, I mean, they are a big, rich family.
But the strings are being pulled behind the scenes by the Rothschilds.
I decided to test this theory.
I'd said, and I'd quoted other people, I mean, Doherty and McGregor as having pointed me in this direction.
But I thought, well, what would be a good thing to do would be to go through the Rockefeller Foundation.
Look at the Rockefeller Foundation.
And the easiest way of looking at...
An organisation's links is to look at its key members.
So I went to the Board of Trustees.
I did a similar thing with Chatham House not so long ago.
So I just methodically worked through, well, there are 13 Board of Trustees plus the president of the Rockefeller Foundation.
And I worked through each one of those, looked at their biographies wherever I could find them, not just starting from the Rockefeller Foundation's own website, but also looking at all the other organisations.
All of them have these little bios of things they've done and all of them.
You know, the bodies they've served on and the prizes they've received.
And I wanted to see, set out to see whether it appeared that the Rockefeller Foundation was distinct, was a distinct entity, distinct from the Rothschilds Empire.
You know, whether you could see that they weren't quite aligned with the same bodies.
And, well, to cut a long story short, the answer is that they're exactly the same thing.
I mean, I found multiple connections, not just to the Rothschilds, But to Israel and to Zionism, which makes no sense, really.
I mean, Rockefellers were never a Jewish family, as far as I'm aware.
Were they Baptists, I think?
Something like that.
Yes, I think so.
I think so, yeah.
But, yeah, I mean, I can see that.
I've looked a bit into the history of the Rockefeller family, and John Dee's father was a kind of snake oil salesman, literally a snake oil salesman.
He was a sort of disreputable character.
And it's odd to think that the richest man in America, supposedly, The
Rothschilds by then would have been The preeminent financial family in the world, wouldn't they?
So probably even at the beginning, maybe.
Maybe, maybe it's possible.
Yeah, you know, yeah, I haven't done that research.
I've just, you know, so this angle was to look at what it is now, basically, and, you know, well, yeah, maybe all along he was forming some role for them as a facade.
I couldn't say.
I don't know enough about it, actually.
No.
But it's interesting because I've just written a sort of revised version of my book on the climate change nonsense.
And I've come to the conclusion that the whole climate change scare was essentially promoted by one family, which was The Rockefellers.
They owned every institution, ran every institution that pushed the climate change narrative starting from the 1940s onwards.
And they also, of course, were co-founders of the United Nations via the League of Nations and so on.
So they're in it up to their necks.
But if your theory is correct, then behind their front family lurks the red shield.
It's possible.
Yes, and Edmund Rothschild was behind the GEF, which is the financing, it's the financial structures behind the climate thing, behind the need for sustainable development and the rest of it.
I mean, they're very much involved in that.
I mean, they've been involved in the...
This is what the whole of the UN SDGs are about.
You know, which are obviously presented to the public as just being, you know, sort of nice aims for society to achieve.
Yeah, that's sustainable, Paul.
That's a nice word.
It's inclusive.
Yeah.
It's equitable.
It's great.
It's going to be great for the kids.
Yeah.
But it's an infrastructure.
It's a financial infrastructure which allows for the...
Which is a legal infrastructure for the commodification of our lives and nature and everything else, for the benefit of the financial community, as one might tell them.
Yeah.
And they were behind this.
Behind what?
Behind this, creating these financial instruments.
I found a bit about that.
It's in the booklet, actually, that they were, you know, you could, somebody, I mean, they don't announce this.
You know, this is why you have to actually go and look for it.
But somebody had a talk, I won't guess, I think it was a World Bank event or something, said, oh, yes, of course, this financial instrument was all dreamed up in the Rothschild offices in London some years ago.
And, you know, you just, every time you go down any particular, Little path.
You're likely to come across a mention of their name.
I think the broader point to make is their involvement in the British Empire and the French Empire and the Belgian Empire.
They were involved in imperialism.
I haven't written about the Belgian aspect, but I've read about it.
They're involved in imperialism.
It's notoriously brutal, the Belgian Empire.
The Congo.
Horrible, horrible massacres of natives, worse than anything in the other empires.
And of course, the Western imperialism, if you call it that, you know, those type of imperialisms, were the forerunners of globalization now.
I mean, it's not a separate process.
That was the original form, was that there was a globalization led by Britain, France, and Belgium, and the Netherlands, Spain, and all.
But, you know, plundering and exploiting and enslaving and pillaging and so on.
And then, you know, the sort of path to America, I suppose, where, you know, in my life, in our lifetimes, we've thought of the American Empire as being the sort of major force behind...
Globalisation, because our own European societies have been modernised in an American way.
But really, it's just the same.
It's just globalisation via America.
America has been the proxy for this empire, for this financial empire, in the way that Britain was the main proxy for many years.
China and the BRICS countries will shortly become the next proxy, if all goes according to plan.
But it's quite clear that the same entity lies behind it all.
Okay.
Well, tell me a bit about their involvement, first of all, in the British Empire.
That goes right back.
They're involved in the opium trade.
And the opium wars with China, they were involved in India to some extent.
And then they're involved in the sale of, you know, opium was traded with China in order to, in exchange for silk and other products.
And it was at the time of the opium wars which led to the Chinese being forced to open up to Western trade.
Shanghai.
The Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank was set up, and they were involved.
I'm not saying it was entirely Rothschild's affair.
This is the thing.
They're not the owners of these things, but they've got important vested interests and controlling interests in those things, along with others.
I think originally you'd have to say that they were working with others a lot more than I think they are now, because it's like the game of Monopoly.
You know, which obviously was invented to show people what happens when somebody gains a monopoly.
But I don't know, if you play it through and somebody ends up getting all the hotels on Mayfair and the rest of it, and every time you go around the board, you have to mortgage your properties to sell them off, and they end up...
I mean, the game's over, basically, isn't it?
Because they own everything.
And it's no fun.
And you can't move without...
No, it's pointless.
Why does anyone play it?
You know, I hadn't thought of it.
I don't associate the concept of Monopoly, of a Monopoly, with Monopoly the board game, but of course you're right.
You're absolutely right.
That is what it teaches you.
When someone's got the Monopoly, the game's over.
You're not having a good time and it's horrible.
And even in the run-up to the Monopoly moment, it's horrible because you're waiting to get round the board.
With luck, your best hope is to be in jail for three moves.
And then you're out and you go round again.
It's horrible.
And that is the world now, isn't it?
Somebody owns everything.
We have very little of our own.
Sadly, yeah.
The point I was making there really was that You know, it wasn't always that.
We weren't always at this end point of the game.
There was earlier stages of the game when the Rothschilds were one of several players with hotels and many squares.
Although, have you heard the trivia?
I can't say it's definitely a fact, but I'm sure I read somewhere that After the Battle of Waterloo, so we're talking 1815, so way before the late 19th century period, which we were talking about earlier, way before the Opium Wars even.
At the Battle of Waterloo, Nathan Mayer Rothschild had set up this messaging system.
Was it a pigeon post or was it a telegraph system?
I can't remember.
He'd set up a system which...
Which meant that he was able to hear the result of Waterloo before the city did.
And he played this brilliant move.
He pretended that he'd been given information that Napoleon had won.
And he got all his brokers to start selling stocks.
And the market instantly became abuzz with rumours that Nathan Mayer Rothschild was selling, so he must have had advance notice that Napoleon had won.
So there was a massive sell-off, at which point Rothschild moved in and bought all these stocks.
At, you know, heavily discounted.
And by the end, this is what I heard, he owned, I think, 80%, 80% of the entire British stock market.
Now, I mean, even if it was only 70%, let's say.
But we're talking, I mean, imagine now, if you owned 70%, 80%.
Of the UK stock market, even if it's at its current, you know, way below American values, that would make you pretty rich.
So this was in 1815 and they haven't just sat on that money and allowed it to kind of they didn't put it in a low interest bank account.
So they owned all the money in the world, even in 1815. So I'm just sort of suggesting that this might support your thesis, that the Rothschilds do own everything.
We can't be certain, but that's just one branch of it.
But you said they're a British family, but they're not just British, are they?
I mean, they're a French family, and they've got other branches.
No.
Yeah, no, the...
No, I said they were.
I was talking about the British branch with regard to America and they had to hide because obviously the war of independence had happened and that wouldn't have been a very welcome realization that they weren't independent.
No, they were German.
Well, yeah, German-Jewish to start with.
I mean, I gather they're still Jewish, but I don't think they define themselves as German anymore.
Yeah, so, and that's the five, you know, well, we all know the story.
The five arrows went out.
The five sons went off to different parts of Europe and set up different businesses, but they've always been coordinated.
I mean, that was the key to their success.
They didn't fall out.
It wasn't each son going off to do his own thing and being a deadly rival of the others.
I'm sure there was some friendly rivalry.
They've always coordinated, which is why they've been able to be on both sides of a number of wars, for example.
Yes.
Yes, including, presumably, the First and Second World Wars.
Well, definitely with the First World War.
I haven't written about the Second World War.
I will get round to that at some point.
Tell me about them in the First World War.
Well, they were...
Involved with the Milner Group, obviously.
And, I mean, with Cecil Rhodes.
Cecil Rhodes was very close to the Rothschilds.
Lord Rothschild was left in charge of his will, even, I think.
I mean, it was Rothschild money that enabled him to develop the diamond fields in Southampton.
Yep.
And from there on, I mean, the Boer War was...
Connected to that group, of course.
And then they sort of worked towards this idea of the First World War.
What I explain in the...
I wrote an article specifically about the First World War, based basically on the Doherty and McGregor books.
And there was that sort of theme that I was repeating in the Moldova talk that you heard.
And there were sort of...
Different types of favourable outcomes from wars.
There's a short-term, medium-term and long-term.
I think it's probably true of all wars, but specifically I've looked at the First World War.
The short-term thing is that the Rothschilds owned and do own a lot of arms companies, munitions firms.
Obviously, when the government starts spending money on munitions.
That's good news for them.
And oil.
They have a lot of big, big oil interests.
And, you know, oil is needed to transport the troops across Europe or across the Atlantic to come and join the war.
And also, in fact, they're into mining.
So they're also probably benefiting from the raw products needed to make the shells and the rest of it.
Oh, yeah.
And also, of course, they'll be providing loans to the...
War loans to the governments involved, which come bearing interest, needless to say, and so they'll be benefiting from that.
Maybe that's a medium-term outcome.
They also owned a lot of railways, and railway companies got paid for transporting troops and supplies across Europe in a time of war.
And all the shells, I mean, that was one of the things that Doherty and MacGregor talk about, is that, you know, every day that the First World War continued, and now that more and more money was spent on shells, shells, shells, shells.
You know, you've got to rake in the money off shells.
You can't have it coming to an end, because what happened to all that?
And then after the war, there's...
Ah, there's the build back better moment, isn't it?
That's another splendid opportunity for the business community.
And not just in the construction of the actual construction industry of building, physically building back better, but also, of course, in the loans required for governments to build back better and things like the, you know, the...
Oh, and there's the repayments as well, and, you know, the support, and the Marshall Plan, and I'm jumping to the Second World War suddenly, but the Marshall Plan certainly involves Rothschilds, and that was building back better of Europe after the war.
And then there's the long-term, the long-term sort of swathe of opportunities, which is how you build back the societies after the war.
And after both World World Wars amounted to a kind of reset.
Like the Great Reset after the COVID moment.
And it's interesting that Schwab in his books specifically states that he thinks the post-COVID concept was going to be as strong as the post-war concept.
That nothing can be done the same.
We can't live like we used to.
You know, now we're going to have to do, I mean, in the case of COVID, we're going to have to do everything online and we're all going to have to wrap ourselves in plastic every time we go out of the house.
And it's going to be the fourth industrial revolution, you know, all the hideous, you know, digital identity.
But after the First World War and Second World War, it was modernisation.
You know, we can't live in the way we used to, in the way our grandfathers used to.
We've got to get rid of all these old-fashioned ways, you know, we're in the modern world now.
We can't have old-fashioned agriculture and we can't have people living in, you know, self-sufficiency in the countryside.
As a local historian here told me in France, they couldn't, a lot of families couldn't carry on living in a self-sufficient agricultural way anymore after the First World War, because most of the menfolk were dead.
They'd been slaughtered in this satanic sacraments.
So they're forced to go and work in the factories.
I mean, it all just ties together.
Yeah, it's a perfect plan.
I mean, it's diabolical, but it's very well thought out.
Yes.
And if you hate beauty, as I think Satanists do, you're naturally going to be drawn to things like mass-produced architecture in concrete and homes fit for heroes, which are actually not a patch on the kind of homes that people would...
Build when they had a kind of choice about their materials and they put a bit of craftsmanship and a bit of love into it.
You look at post-war architecture and you don't see any of that.
And if you had to sort of go back and say, well, suppose you were really evil and you wanted to make the world a worse place and you're looking at, say, Edwardian Britain.
And Edwardian architecture, you know, Edwardian London houses are still pretty nice.
And you were asking yourself, how can we persuade these people to stop living in these nice-looking buildings that they'd like to live in and make them live in horrible sort of prefabricated concrete stuff?
How do we do that?
Well, you wouldn't.
There's no way you could persuade them of their own volition.
So what you have to do, as you say, you have to kind of create a...
A reset event, like the war, in order to railroad people in the position you want to push them into.
Yeah, and of course, yeah.
I mean, whole cities were literally destroyed, weren't they, by the aerial bombing, you know, the Blitz and the British bombing, the American bombing of Germany.
So then they could build a new, they could rebuild horrible...
It's like Plymouth city centre in Coventry.
It's just pretty flat, wasn't it?
And then all those post-war new towns.
I mean, some of them now don't look too bad compared to what they're building now.
But, you know, it's this relentless destruction of everything that's old and traditional and that means something to people and that gives us a sense of being someone and somewhere specific.
It all just has to be raised to make a sort of a...
Sort of interchangeable units of human capital in a sort of planet-sized slave plantation.
So on the kind of American empire, is your thesis that the Rothschilds sort of deputed certain families to represent their interests?
So I suppose they'd essentially be the families that own the Federal Reserve.
So you've got these families like the Rockefellers, like J.P. Morgan, a few others.
These families, Schiff, was that one of them?
They're basically controlled by one family, but you get the illusion that it's a group of families.
Is that the American New State?
Yes, and the Council for Foreign Relations was part of that, you know.
Yeah, I mean, it's not me saying this.
It wasn't me saying it originally.
I mean, this is what I read through Doherty McGranny.
It also quickly says that, really.
He points us that way, though he never really spells it out in a very satisfactory sense.
But certainly everything I've seen since confirms that.
Yeah, I mean, you know, you see something and you think that sounds likely, and you sort of put it forward saying it looks as if, and then you see 28 other things that sort of fill in the gaps, and so now I would say, yeah, that's it.
That's the situation.
And does Neil Ferguson say that, albeit cautiously?
No.
No?
I don't?
He's more circumspect.
Yeah.
Yeah.
look.
I mean, are you familiar with the concept of satanic karma that in order karmically to get away with what they do to us, they have to tell us what they do to us and what they're doing to us, which is why Although you said it was hard to find this information, it's not impossible because they do talk about it.
They do.
Nothing is totally hidden because the revelation is part of the process where they absolve themselves of their guilt and their strange religion because they're telling you what they're doing.
Yes, I've heard that said.
I don't know, you know.
I don't know.
I've not looked into it.
I've not read any books specifically about Satanism or anything.
But, yeah, the information is there, but I've tried very hard to hide it, to be honest.
You try searching for the restaurants, you don't find much about them just by doing casual searches.
You get a lot of people warning you that it's a common anti-Semitic trope and it's not true and that sort of thing.
That's a bit like one of those spells in Harry Potter where they're trying to protect an object and they put this sort of shield around it, a sort of spell shield.
And I suppose that's the Rothschild spell shield that, you know, you can't come here because you're being anti-Semitic and anti-Semitic is like, presumably you've been accused of being anti-Semitic for writing, for making these claims.
Oh yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah.
I mean, only, you know, after I bought the, after I bought the Rothschild booklet out.
Even now, I was, I mean, I really spelled it out in the, you know, in the preface.
I said, the reason I'm talking about And criticising the Rothschild is not because they're Jewish, it's rather despite of them being Jewish, because it makes it so much harder to talk about them.
I wouldn't have been a lot happier to discover the family behind all this that weren't Jewish.
I'd have made my life a lot easier.
It'd be great.
I don't care.
Were in fact the older Brandinis or something, you know, you'd think, yeah, great, it wasn't the Catholics.
Full steam ahead.
No worries.
Unfortunately, it's the bloody Rothschilds, and I've got to write about them.
I knew immediately, of course, what was going to happen.
Just for the record, since I'm on here, I'm not anti-Semitic.
I've known plenty of Jewish people throughout my life, and I still do.
You don't need to say it.
I mean, look, I think we're all in the same boat.
You know, I've got lots of Jewish friends that I did have anyway.
I don't know whether they still speak to me now, but, you know, I still love them.
I feel exactly the same way about them as I did before.
You know, I don't go, oh, yeah, you're the same religion as the Rothschilds, so you're a bad thing.
It's one of the...
I'm sure that...
The Rothschilds or families like the Rothschilds are responsible for setting up organisations like the ADL, which is the Gestapo, if you like, isn't it, of the high-profile Jewish families.
They go out there and they kind of sniff out any signs of anti-Semitism and they boycott you.
Oh yeah, and they've been having a field day since Israel started slaughtering people in the Middle East, because obviously people react, anybody who reacts against that and says it's a bad thing, well that's anti-Semitism.
So they've been, you know...
Their graphs, because of how they define anti-Semitism, including criticism of Israel, since Israel started committing war crimes, their graph of anti-Semitic incidents has been going up like that, you know, because...
Oh, and the papers dutifully report on this, because I've read loads of headlines.
Yeah, yeah.
But it's all just, you know, it's like the PCR test, really.
It's just a mechanism that has been invented in order to produce that result.
In order to further the agenda, which is to clamp down on the internet and freedom of speech and send more millions of pounds to Jewish charities and philanthropic organisations in order to combat this alarming rise in anti-Semitism, which they concocted themselves.
So, did you go back to the beginnings?
Of the Rothschilds.
They're originally a family called Bower, weren't they?
Yes.
I didn't really look much into the very beginnings.
I think actually the book that I bought of Ferguson's, later I realised it was a second volume, and there was another one that I might have wanted to read as well.
So I've ended up by default focusing on the, you know, from the 19th century onwards.
Because in the same way I was curious as to how John D. Rockefeller got his money in the first place.
I'm curious as to how the Bauer family, how they became this entity and what the origins of the Bauer family were.
I mean, obviously this is above your pay grade because you haven't looked into it, but It's interesting, don't you think?
If you're right, if the Rothschilds do own the world...
By the way, have you got any idea about what they might be worth?
How can you put a value on it?
I mean, I think they've got infinite amounts of money.
Because they create the money.
Is there a head of the family?
Is Nat in charge now?
Well, he's the head of the British branch, isn't he?
I don't...
Is he?
I wouldn't claim to...
Yeah, young...
Yeah, the...
Yes, Nat is the current British...
He must be Lord Rothschild now, mustn't he, since the old chap died.
I suppose he must be.
I suppose he must be.
I mean...
A lot of so-called conspiracy theorists, they love to cite that photograph of Evelyn de Rothschild doing this at the then Prince Charles.
And Charles is looking sort of cowed and lightly subservient.
And Evelyn is looking very much like he rules the roost.
And I noticed the delicious coyness with which the Rothschilds are described in there.
Obituaries.
You know, they're always given a good send-off and described as highly respected financial advisors to the royal family, that kind of thing.
And you sense that there's a lot of sort of circumlocution going on, a lot of point evading.
And you just wonder what...
Because, I mean, they do occasionally surface, don't they?
I mean, I've...
Well, I know people who were at Eton.
With Nat, you know.
I know that George Osborne went on Oleg Deripaska's yacht with Nat Rothschild.
This is probably the beginning of his descent into his spiral into darkness.
You get little glimpses.
They're not wholly invisible.
No, no.
I mean, yeah.
I've never come across them in my personal sphere.
I've never really moved in circles in which I would have come across them.
No, they're not totally invisible, but their control is invisible.
They present themselves as being one of a number of rich families, I suppose.
The official line that was put out was really put out.
Hartley, in Ferguson's book, although he sort of contradicts himself, is that they peaked sometime around the turn of the 20th century, beginning of the 20th century, and that they were overtaken by other families, you know, by Morgan and Rockefeller or whatever, you know, by the people they, in fact, control.
I mean, how they allowed that dominant position to slip from their fingers would be a total mystery.
But when, I mean, now, of course, a lot of people know that Blackrock, Vanguard and State Street can...
Oh, nearly everything.
And, you know, everything apart from the corner shop, you know, and even that's probably Tesco if you live in Britain.
And it was Joseph Merkeler, Dr. Joseph Merkeler, who published an article two or three years ago in which he said that it looked as if the Rothschilds were the ultimate owners behind that Blackrock vanguard.
State Street Empire.
But it's not written down anywhere.
You can't go and company's house and see that the Rothschilds own Blackrock.
It's immensely complicated and probably beyond my capacities as a non-expert in financial matters to be able to prove that.
I've never met any of them.
Although, I can imagine if you catch them on the right day, they're a great company.
I mean, I imagine that a day with Nat Rothschild, you know, I mean, he's going to be very, very sure of himself, isn't he?
He's going to be very comfortable in his skin.
And he's going to give you access to the best wine, the best drugs, the most beautiful women, the best...
You know, when you're with Nat, it's kind of like, yeah, yeah, I'm with Nat.
And people are...
In my normie days, I was drawn, as I think most people are, to celebrity, to money.
You can't help it.
If somebody's got money, it's like, oh, yeah, maybe some of that will rub off on me.
Or if they've got fame, you think, yeah, maybe a bit of that glamour will rub off on me.
Maybe I'll become famous one day.
And in the same way...
I would suspect that a lot of people who, I'm not going to name names, but I'm thinking of, for example, a very successful hedge fund manager.
I think he got his working capital initially from the Rothschilds.
I think, you know, you get in with the Rothschilds and you're kind of made.
You've become a courtier.
And, you know, they'll look after you.
If you pay due obeisance.
I think that's how it works.
Yes, I think it must be.
Sometimes it's that, but there's also other elements, is the whole sort of blackmail thing.
You know, the Epstein and Saville and the paedophile networks and the rest of it, which is a less genial way of keeping people on your side.
I'm so glad that I never got invited to one of those parties.
I wonder if anyone ever did approach me in my past or whether I was ever sounded out as a potential recruit for the dark side.
But I must have failed because I never got invited to one of those parties.
I never did anything so bad that I'd feel embarrassed to Well, have it exposed, I don't think.
But yeah.
By the way, just as a sort of anecdotal thing, when I was a young reporter, I was vaguely approached by the local Freemasons, testing me out to see if I would be interested in joining them, which I wasn't.
Thank goodness I wasn't as well.
What did they dangle in front of you?
Well, I mean, I've got various Freemasons in my family and they said things like, you know, my grandfather said to me on my 21st birthday, his dearest wish was for me to become a Freemason.
I loved him.
He was a lovely man and sort of, you know, God-fearing.
And I mean, you know, I don't think he was sufficiently far up the chain to realise that there were, you know, They weren't necessarily as sold to us as a kind of charitable organisation which wore aprons seven nights a year and learnt screens of text.
But I just thought maybe sometime a bit like I thought when I'm a bit older maybe I'll go and see Wagner at Bayreuth.
Maybe I'll get into that one day.
In the same way, I just thought, yeah, maybe I'll be interested in becoming a Freemason.
I just never got round to it.
I think I'd have been a really shit Freemason.
I'd quite like learning the script, learning all the signs and that archaic language you have to learn.
I'd be good at that.
But I'd be really, really bad at drinking shit wine and having to Having to wear...
having to talk to boring people about shit.
And, I mean...
Yeah.
That would be dull, wouldn't it?
I think it would be very dull indeed, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Just a side point, actually.
It's interesting what you said about the people who are...
ordinary people in the Freemasons, lower-ranking Freemasons, having no idea of what...
What they're really working for.
I think that's true in so many branches of life.
You know, like in the...
True in the British...
People who work for the British state or, you know, British intelligence maybe or, you know, the police certainly.
They think they're working to protect the British people, the army.
You know, they think they're working for Britain.
And so they put their lives into that.
You know, they've got that sense of...
And it doesn't mean they're bad people, that they're in fact, unbeknown to them, they're being controlled by a deep state secret global mafia that is using the British state and its various forces to advance its own agenda.
And the same thing would have been true of people in America and the United States, working for the United States government for freedom.
Democracy and all the things they thought they were working for.
And also for people in communist parties, because, you know, as I said, I wrote this, you know, the communist party in America, sorry, in America, and in Russia, the Bolsheviks were definitely controlled by Wall Street, i.e.
Russia Fronts in Wall Street.
I mean, if you were Neil Ferguson, you were writing about history, you'd say, this family has punched above their weight in shaping global history.
They invented communism.
So they invented and financed the Bolshevik revolution.
No?
Yes, they did.
They didn't invent communism.
Perhaps they helped.
It is what you call Marx and Engels.
Who commissioned Marx and Engels to write that book?
But if you think that there was, before that, there was, I don't know, perhaps it wasn't called communism.
But there was a socialist movement, a movement of working class workers against the capitalist class or whatever, which was...
Turned away from its original aims into being something that supported industrial development.
I mean, that's written into Marxism, that you've got to have industrial development, which was the Rothschilds thing, of course.
So, yes, that form of communism.
And also, they're very authoritarian.
They've often been behind authoritarian regimes.
Authoritarian industrialism, I would say, is their ideal model.
And the Soviet Union was very close to that, as was fascist Italy and Nazi Germany.
And they funded, again, through their Wall Street fronts, they funded both Hitler and Mussolini.
And then they advanced industrial, you know, public-private partnerships.
Which is fascism.
Advancing and imposing industrialisation and modernisation that we were talking about earlier via authoritarian means.
That was the fascist communist leap forward that they attempted.
And now we're getting back to that.
I think we're now seeing that coming back.
Oh, definitely.
And have you looked into Victor Rothschild?
Oh, yeah, well, he was an interesting character, wasn't he?
He was, wasn't he?
Again, he sounds like you'd love to have met him.
Was he in MI5 or MI6 during the war?
Yeah, he was in MI5 and accused of...
Go on, carry on.
And the only other thing I know about him, he played stride piano.
He was a very good stride pianist.
Whatever stride piano.
It's a form of kind of honky-tonk or jazz piano, I suppose.
Okay, I don't know.
Yeah, and he was a boulevardier.
He was, you know, clearly...
Well, he really had all the money in the world, and he...
But...
So, I mean, it's...
When you look at the actual...
I'm not sure that the recent...
The one that just died was quite so much fun.
What's he called?
Jacob.
Jacob.
I mean, he had a nice house in Corfu, where...
Various of my friends have been.
People pay court to them.
I've noticed that.
People paid and do pay court to the Rothschilds.
Because people are drawn to money.
And then you have to separate that, the glamour of it, the kind of Great Gatsby type sort of, or everyone wants to be invited to the party, with what is done behind the scenes.
On their behalf, and that is the purest evil.
I mean, the whole of the climate change thing is pure, pure evil.
Wars are pure, pure evil.
So however, I mean, charm, of course, is a quality of the devil anyway, but however superficially attractive and interesting and amusing and sophisticated these people are, what they're doing is just satanic.
It could hardly be worse, what they've done and are doing, to be honest.
So what were you going to say about what you knew about Victor?
He presumably played both sides in the war.
He was accused of being a Soviet spy at some point.
But if the Rothschilds were behind the Soviet system and the British system, then it wouldn't so much be...
The question of him being a spy, of standing astride both sides in the Cold War, which I think is probably coming closer to the truth.
Well, exactly.
In the same way, I think on that level, you have to have a hand in every great power, don't you, around the world?
So, for example, Mao.
Mao was run, presumably, by similar people.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, they're not going to let the Chinese go.
They're not going to go, well, we'll just control the Western world and we'll leave the Chinese together.
You said at the beginning that we're moving to a new hegemony where it's going to be the Bricks that's going to take over.
And that presumably is going to be another hegemony essentially controlled by the Rothschilds and similar.
Yes, it's the same.
It's the same team.
I mean, If anyone doubts that, I would suggest they just look at the BRICS declarations.
I mean, the one I looked at in death was the 2023 one.
I'm sure they've brought out another one since then.
And, you know, it's all about sustainable development.
I think the word sustainable development cropped up about 27 times or something ridiculous.
It's the same script.
It's sustainable development and inclusivity and, you know, the BRICS countries are all pushing digital currencies and they've got their own centre for the fourth industrial revolution and, you know, it's the same game.
It's the same...
It's absolutely the same entity behind it and it's unmistakable if you just look at it.
I mean, people don't look at it.
They just...
Because we're all used to...
Disliking the rule of the American empire so much.
You know, I mean, you know, I fell into this trap, I'm sure, when I first heard about this shift away from the dollar and the rest of it.
Oh, good, you know, the empire's finally collapsing.
There's going to be a breath of fresh air.
But no, no, it's just one of these regular transitions to a new...
A new base, really, a new basis that suits their agenda for some reason.
I suppose they've sort of exploited, they've sort of sucked dry, maybe, the previous host countries in a sort of parasitical manner.
And now I've got their eyes on, well, there's a cheaper labour force, isn't there, in China, for a start, which is why all the industry started going out that way, you know, several decades ago.
Because all of these hard decades of social struggle in Europe had led to unionised workforces demanding rights and decent standard of living and so on.
So it's much better to have your garments manufactured in Bangladesh and your steel production in China and the rest of it where you've got populations that can still be forced to work long hours.
A day for minimal wages.
I think that's changing now.
But, you know, that was certainly the impetus behind it.
And the next target they've got their eyes on is Africa, which is everywhere you see that.
Particularly in the Rockefeller Foundation's trustees, in fact.
Three of them, I think, are actually African.
But in the same way as I would say the Rockefellers were American fronts.
So these Africans are black African fronts for the same thing.
It's quite explicitly involved with the Rothschilds.
One of these characters went on the African Rothschild, Rockefeller Foundation trustees, has actually set up a pan-African investment bank and it turned out the bloke he set it up with was a former Rothschild employee.
It's not hard.
If you look, I think anyone who's doubting any of this that I'm saying, I'm thinking that I'm a Buddha Vanatta going off on an obsessional quest to try and prove that the Rothschilds are behind everything, which is not the case.
As I said, I didn't wish to find that.
I suggest they just look themselves, take the time to go and, you know, to pick up any thread and follow it.
And you'll see confirmed what I've found because I haven't got any special knowledge.
This is just stuff that's available for anyone to find out.
Yeah.
One of the frustrations, one of the missing links here is the Rothschilds gained their financial power in what?
The 18th century?
Was that when the Five Brothers went in their different direction?
Yeah, end of the 18th, beginning of the 19th.
I can't remember the exact year that the first Rothschild came to Manchester to start with, before London.
But yeah, it was around that time.
It obviously went hand in hand with the Industrial Revolution.
So, we are talking really quite recent history.
We're talking the last 200 years.
Or so.
250 years, say.
So that leaves an awful lot of history where the Rothschilds were nobodies.
Unless...
I mean, you know, how did the Bauer family get rich?
And how did the Rothschilds get so powerful?
Maybe some family was running them.
And maybe they're the ones behind.
Maybe there are families even richer than that that control the Rothschilds.
Either that or the Rothschilds have spent the last 250 years conducting this brilliant, brilliant coup against the crime families that run the world.
That they've become the head of the senior family among all the crime families.
Which is possible.
But if so, then we should salute their ruthlessness and ingenuity.
I wouldn't salute murderous ruthlessness, you know, in any circumstances.
No, I was being slightly flippant.
Yes, I know.
What were the power structures?
Obviously, there were power structures in place beforehand.
Whether they...
Whether it specifically involved the Rothschild family or whether they were just incredibly successful.
I sometimes think that because there was a sort of monopolising phenomenon happening with the growth of industrial society and there was going to be this process was going to be taking place once the game of Monopoly was launched.
One player was going to end up on top.
Maybe it could have been a number of similar families, some Jewish, some not Jewish, I don't know.
Although, obviously, there was a particular Jewish interest in money-lending, in usury, because it had been forbidden to Christians for some time.
So that gets back previous centuries, obviously way before the period I've been born.
No, Jesus didn't like it.
So I suggest that it's not for some time, it's since the beginning that usury has been forbidden to Christians.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes, yes.
Anyway, yeah.
You did say that.
You're right.
But the fact that there was usury, and regardless of who would have been involved in usury, I mean, you know, the Vatican was involved in money lending as well, obviously, as people point out.
But that doesn't mean that at a certain point this monopolising phenomenon would not have led to somebody taking charge and it would have been the cleverest and most horribly ruthless and best organised group, syndicate, that would have taken control of the thing.
And I think that's what happened.
And I think to heart back to the past and to...
To look back to the past and say that there were previous, that there were existing bodies and networks and pyramids involved doesn't mean, doesn't mean that that exists outside of the current Rothschilden Empire.
I mean, I could be wrong, you know, but as I say, everything I've, I'd love to come, I'd love to come across some crumb of evidence that points me away from them.
That would make a nice change, to be honest.
I'm getting beyond that illusion and now I can discover what's really...
I'm not stuck on the Ross Charles and I'm not obstinate.
I'm not staking my...
Well, I haven't really got a reputation but I'm not remaining with that.
I know exactly where you're coming from and I think everyone...
Down the rabbit hole has to face this problem, which is that none of us wants to be accused of, or even be thought of as anti-Semitic, because culturally we've been conditioned to think of anti-Semitism as a terrible crime,
but also because I think Most of us, if not all of us down the rubber hole, are just not like that.
We don't look at particular religions or races and think, yeah, you're the baddies, you're inferior, or I hate you.
We've all come to recognize that as humans, we're all in the same boat, and we're all being shat on by this tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny minority.
And we're trying to inform our fellow humans and find solidarity with them and love them because we realise what a mess we're in.
And the last thing we want to be...
Well, we're not like that.
We don't engage in isms because we recognise, after a point, that these isms have been Designed to divide us, and they're all artificial anyway.
You know, anti-Semitism, it's bollocks.
No one's born hating Jews.
Nobody's born a Nazi.
Nobody's born on the left or the right.
They're just part of the controlling elite's divide and rule strategy, which some people fall for.
But...
All that said, we should never be frightened of doing what you've done, if you're right, and going, yeah, it's the Rothschild.
There shouldn't be a...
If it turns out that the most evil people in the world are the Rothschilds, then the fact that notionally they are a Jewish family, although, you know, what does Jewish even mean anyway?
I mean, do they go to the synagogue regularly?
Are they, yeah, whatever.
It should not be a bar to pointing out that they are, if you are what they say they are, then that shouldn't be a bar for you to say this.
I mean, it really shouldn't.
It's like if somebody murders you, or murders your friend, and it turns out that they're called Rothschild, you're not being anti-Semitic by saying...
Ross Charles just killed my best mate.
No, exactly.
It's ridiculous.
I mean, it wouldn't apply to any of that.
You know, if it was an Italian that I killed my best mate, and I thought an Italian killed him, people wouldn't start shrieking, oh, you're an Italian hater, you know.
Well, I wonder whether that's what Wedgwood Ben meant when he said, If you want to know who holds the real power, ask who it is you're not allowed to criticize, or think who it is you're not allowed to criticize, something like that.
I'm sure we must have been talking about that in his gnomic way.
Because, I mean, when you get into the House of Lords, you must know what's going on.
You must hang out with people who know what's going on, how the world works.
Yeah.
He was in the House of Lords.
No, he wasn't.
He renounced his courage, didn't he?
Sorry.
He was in the House of Commons.
Well, he was in the establishment anyway, whether he liked it or not.
Yeah.
Well, I think I salute your bravery in writing these.
I mean, do you think we're going to get killed now for suggesting the Rothschilds run the world?
Are we going to be off?
Well, yeah.
It's been two years since I've been saying it, so fingers crossed.
Oh, they have long memories.
They have long memories.
It could be your great-grandchildren who end up being killed for your crime, Paul.
By the way, I haven't got any yet.
All right, okay.
Fortunately...
So they're going to have to come up with you.
They're going to come for you, mate.
I'm sorry.
It's just like you've crossed the Rubicon in terms of some conspiracy theories are allowed, but you've just named the name that you should dare not speak.
And I have to answer.
I feel that we've just scratched the surface here, but it's been fascinating.
I'd love to get to the bottom of all this.
Where can people read your, what do you call them, booklets?
Well, I have some real books, essays and booklets.
Well, the main site is winteroak.org.uk.
And the essay is a very good book.
I enjoy the essay.
I can recommend heartily.
Many interesting, really in-depth articles.
Thank you.
How many have you got writing for you?
Oh, well, there's various people who contribute.
I mean, there's me and two or three other people who contribute regularly.
Tell me, yeah.
Who else?
Yeah, there's Mike Driver.
Do you know who Mike Driver is?
He's written some stuff for us.
I know, I know.
And various other people sometimes, but, you know.
So, yeah, and Crow Capel has written some stuff with me.
Anyway, I've got a Substack as well, which is just Paul Kudnick.
.substack.com Well, it's the same stuff on Winter Oak, except it's only my stuff.
It's not the other contributors.
And I'm on X, formerly known as Twitter, as Winter Oak Press.
And I've also got a website called Organic Radicals, orgrad.wordpress.com And that's not talking about the...
Or the conspiratorial side of things.
That's more a positive political philosophy profiles.
It's about 90 thinkers that I've written profiles of who've inspired me.
Oh, you don't mean, yeah.
Not yet, no, but I'll have to put you on the list.
Have I heard of any of these thinkers?
Well, some of them are contemporary.
Some of them you would have heard of.
People like...
Carl Jung, for example.
I'm sure you've heard of Jung and, you know...
Baddy?
Baddy?
No, no, not Jung, no.
It depends who you ask, I suppose.
It's going into completely different areas that we haven't really...
we can't really venture.
There's some anarchists in there and some Indian anti-imperialists.
I've got Gandhi in there.
Some people think he's a baddie as well, but he was a fierce opponent of industrial imperialism, so I count him as one of the good men.
I can't really go through all of them off the top of my head.
I'll have to.
It's a different area of my writing, put it that way.
And so where do we find that?
allgrad.wordpress.com Okay.
But it's linked regularly from my other articles, so it's quite easy to track down.
Okay.
Well, Paul, thank you very much.
It's been great talking to you.
And everyone else, thank you for watching and listening.
And if you want to support me, please do.
I really appreciate it.
You can support me on Subscribestar on Substack.
Substack is my main one.
Substack and Locals are probably the two best places.
Or you can buy me a coffee.
But if you support me on Substack and Locals, you get about a week ahead of the game.
You get early access to my podcasts and other perks as yet to be decided.
But you get the warmth of my love, which is nice.
And you get to support me and, you know, help me fight the fight.
Thank you very much again.
Paul, good neck.
Thank you.
Whatever your real name is.
And if either Paul and I disappear or die mysteriously, it wasn't suicide.
Okay?
It really was not suicide.
No, really not.
Not interested.
Anyway, my Christian faith forbids it.
So, I don't know about you, Paul.
I don't know what you've got.
My faith does as well.
You know, my personal faith.
There we are.
So that's it.
You heard it from both horses' mouths.
By the way, we've both got shit internet and I'm only 3% uploaded.
You're only 17% uploaded.
So you're going to have to...
Do you mind leaving your computer on so that it can upload?
Yeah, fine.
I predicted that would be the case.
Go and chop some wood.
Hunt down a song with one of your boar-hunting spears that I believe he used in France.
Yes, is that right?
So it's very, very a la mode.
You could cook some trepe a la mode, you could bake a baguette, or make a cassoulet.
I used to make cassoulet when I used in France.
Okay.
Or I could go and skin a frog or two, I suppose.
No, no, no.
That's horrible.
That's nasty.
If it were not dark, you could play bull.
All these wonderful French things that you could do while you're waiting.
Options are limitless.
Exactly.
Paul, it's been lovely talking to you, and don't hang up after this.
All right.
No, no, no.
Global warming is a massive con.
There is no evidence whatsoever that man-made climate change is a problem, that it's going to kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to deal with it.
It's a non-existent problem.
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition of my 2012 classic book.
Watermelons, which captures the story of how some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.
It's a shocking story.
I wrote it, as I say, in 2011, actually.
The first edition came out.
And it's a snapshot of a particular era.
The era when...
The people behind the climate change scan got caught red-handed, tinkering with the data, torturing till it screamed in a scandal that I helped christen ClimateGate.
So I give you the background to the skullduggery that went on in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were informing us, we've got to act now.
I rumbled their scan.
I then asked the question, OK, if it is a scan...
Who's doing this and why?
It's a good story.
I've kept the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end, explaining how it's even worse than we thought.
I think it still stands up.
I think it's a good read.
Obviously, I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.
You can buy it from jamesdellingpole.co.uk/shop You'll probably find that one.
Just go to my website and look for it, jamesdellingpole.co.uk And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring round all those people who are still persuaded that, "Oh, it's a disaster, we must amend our ways and appease the gods, appease Mother God." There we go.
