Elizabeth Nickson is a Canadian writer, journalist and ex-European bureau chief of Life magazine. She is the author of two notable books: her 1994 novel 'The Monkey Puzzle Tree' (an account of the CIA brainwashing trials in Montreal in the 1950s and 1960s) and her 2012 book 'Eco-fascists: How radical conservationists are destroying our natural heritage'.↓ ↓ ↓If you need silver and gold bullion - and who wouldn't in these dark times? - then the place to go is The Pure Gold Company. Either they can deliver worldwide to your door - or store it for you in vaults in London and Zurich. You even use it for your pension. Cash out of gold whenever you like: liquidate within 24 hours. https://bit.ly/James-Delingpole-Gold
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Welcome to the Dellingpod with me, James Dellingpole.
And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest.
But before we meet her, a quick word from one of our sponsors.
James here.
A quick word about gold and silver.
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I'm not a financial expert, but I own gold myself, I own silver myself, because I think that it is a hedge against these crazy markets.
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And also the book on eco-fascism, which is a way of owning physical gold again.
You've got to own physical gold, not paper gold.
Paper gold is a con in my view.
And you get paid interest on it in the form of more gold.
Chuck a moment there.
I mean, I don't, I guess you don't remember it because you do so many, but lots of people listened to it and read the book because of it.
So thank you.
Oh, good.
Well, I mean, the pleasure was all mine.
It was a very good, it was a very good book giving, well, we can talk about that a bit later on.
In fact, there's so much I want to talk to you about though.
I want to talk to you about MK Ultra, about I think we should start by talking about what we have in common.
I think we're quite unusual in that we are really quite successful or formerly successful mainstream media journalists.
Who've been mugged by reality and realised that the world is not at all what we thought it were when we were sort of thinking that journalism was an honest trade.
Is that a fair description?
Yeah.
I think so.
We're apostates from the regime, I think.
We were inside it and propping it up, and now we fled.
And I don't know that many of us, that there are that many of us that I can think of right now, which is one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you so badly, because of that thing that we have in common.
And, of course, because I've learned so much from you over the last year, from the work that you've been doing, talking to people who are on the margins but who hold so much truth.
I mean, really, mind-blowing work, James.
I applaud you a hundred thousand percent.
Well, thank you.
Isn't it weird that when we were... I mean, you were quite a big cheese.
You were, what, European Bureau Chief of...
Life Magazine.
And I was actually trained in it.
It was a big deal.
It was like being a modern duchess.
Everybody wanted to talk to you.
And if you wanted to go somewhere, all the doors just slammed open.
It was pretty heady, I have to say.
And London, I was at my feet.
I had an office on New Bond Street and I had a dining room and I had a butler and I could have anybody I wanted to for lunch and people came!
When was this?
Everybody!
Privy Council, you know, Royalty, Vivian Westwood.
It was tremendous fun.
A bit nerve-wracking but fun.
Are we talking 1980s here?
Late 80s, yeah.
Just on the crest of 1990.
Good times, when the world felt like it was, well, not a horrible conspiracy to kill us and destroy us.
Yes, exactly!
But that sounds good!
I used to think that the reason that journalists got paid well at a certain level and got all these perks like generous expense accounts and stuff, I used to think it was because we were so special, because we could write really well and we were clever and we were brave and we could speak truth to power.
More recently, I was listening to Alan Watt.
You must have come across Alan Watt because he used to live in Canada before he got bumped off.
Alan Watt?
No.
There's a treat for you, Elizabeth.
He's a Scotsman.
He's a Scotsman.
He spent his last years in Canada and he did this fantastic podcast where he taught, not to be confused with Alan Watts, plural, who's a completely different kettle of fish, but Alan Watt was a deep thinker and he said,
The reason that news anchors and so on, you know, Walter Cronkite or whoever, are paid such vast sums of money is because they're such a key part of the brainwashing operation.
And you and I, little did we but know it.
We're part of that brainwashing.
We just thought we were what?
That's very clear now to me that we are.
Extraordinary.
Extraordinary.
And I wanted so badly not to be part of it, but just to be able to write.
And I had to, within Time Inc., I don't know if you know this, but I mean it was a regime outfit so that they didn't let people in the field, as they called it, write.
Everything was written back in New York and it was written to what they called American ideals and America-centric.
So you would just, I would send 10,000 words to New York and they would hack through it and come up with something.
I mean, it took me about seven years within the organization before they let me write.
And even then, it was just... So that's the way journalism was run, I think, pretty much everywhere.
One of the reasons I moved to London, because there was so much individuality in The writing out of England in journalism, that I wanted to be part of it.
Everything in the U.S.
was so bland and uninteresting.
So in a sense, I guess being the head of the snake, which is how I think of England now, I think of it as the head of the snake.
You were allowed more latitude, but wow.
I don't know.
You're right.
I remember being very snobbish about American journalism.
That it was very stuffy, it had no character.
I just thought at the time that this was just a product of the American character or the American psyche or whatever or the American tradition and that simply that because English journalism came from the tradition of scurrilous pamphlets against the government, that somehow this knockabout colourful tradition had continued and that that's what I was benefiting from as a journalist.
But now I think otherwise, I mean, now you make me realise that maybe American journalism was so bland because it was controlled more rigorously, more early by the powers that be.
Oh yeah, the difference between editors in New York and editors in London is...
I mean, it's like a different universe.
If you're going middle-brow to sort of up there, at the very top, like at Harper's, when I did a Harper's piece, basically, you know, they didn't edit me at all, which was heaven.
But I did a book for Bloomsbury, and Liz called her, and she didn't, I mean, all she did was sort of nudge me here and there, but if you went through a Yes.
an editor in New York, everything was just torn down, ripped apart, and reconfigured.
So, you know, I pity those people.
I mean, there's stories that they used to tell of writers throwing their computers out the window of the Time Life building at Rockefeller Center because they had to go through five layers of editing, and they would just get so frustrated that they'd and they would just get so frustrated that they'd throw their laptops out the window.
Yeah, well, you've given a clue there, Elizabeth.
Rockefeller Plaza.
So am I right in thinking that time was owned by the Rockefeller family?
It wasn't, but it was heavily controlled by them.
I mean, the Luces were part of the Rockefeller Club of, you know, great, great families, and they towed the line like everybody else.
What the Rockefellers said went.
In every single profession.
I mean, it's extraordinary.
I'm just reading that Swedish guy's book about the Rockefellers, which is... Are you?
That was on my screen a moment ago.
What's his name?
Jacob Nordgaard.
It's a fabulous book.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, that's, that's the guy.
And, um, wow.
I mean, when, when, uh, when they decided to start mind control, the Rockefellers brought it up to, uh, Montreal, they identified the psychiatrist who would, you know, do what they said.
And John, uh, not John, uh, Alan Dulles and the Rockefellers went up to Montreal and Got and just insinuated it into the Canadian system.
There was a big house on top of the hill in Montreal called Raven's Craig, which was owned by a family.
I went to school with the daughter of that family at 50,000 square feet.
They took that over, the rock, they just took it over!
And they put in one of the most powerful sub-projects of MKUltra, Sub-Project 68.
And it was done, the McConnells, who owned the Montreal Star, and I think the cement companies, I mean, aggregate is a big deal.
And they did it.
And then they proceeded to brainwash their wives.
Well, can we come to that?
Because, I mean, MKUltra is a whole, you know, a whole new kettle of fish that we haven't really done before.
And you've written a book on it because your mother was an MKUltra subject, whatever.
Experiment, yeah.
But before we go there, I just want to get a bit more about the, yeah,
Journalism and how it's controlled because I like you I've been enjoying the Jacob Nordgang book and it's got it's got all the receipts it gives you it's astonishing isn't it's mind-blowing indeed how many institutions that the Rockefeller family controls how many it's set up you know it was involved in the League of Nations which became the United Nations it's it's in bed with the what it created the World Health Organization
It owns, runs Chicago University, which I think has produced something like a hundred Nobel laureates, so it controls academe.
It controls everything.
And the reason that Time Inc.
was based in Rockefeller Plaza is because, early on, The Rockefellers had such a bad reputation.
Everyone knew they were toxic.
I mean, they had incidents like, in one of their mines, women and children and mine workers were machine gunned because they dared to go on strike.
So they had a bad press.
Whoever the Rockefeller was at the time, John Jr.
I think it was, was advised by his press advisor, if you want to control the media, you've got to own it and shape reality in your interests.
Which is why you've got photographs of John Rockefeller Acting like Mr. Burns in The Simpsons, giving coins to children.
I mean, they owned the media in the 1930s and 40s.
So think about what they own now.
Yeah, well, exactly.
I mean, do they even have to own it?
I mean, they can just pull a string and everybody goes, oh, okay, right.
Well, we'll measure up.
Yeah, yeah.
So Henry Luce who created Time Inc, he would have been what sort of junior bloodline family that would have like sort of vassal family as it were?
Yeah, yeah.
I think there was just like crabs in a bucket, you know, they would just crawl out and people would pull them down.
And once you demonstrated your pliability, the Rockefellers would just annex you into their club so that you would be part of the party circuit.
And all the deals were made at these Extraordinary party, some of which I used to go to when I was a pretty 17-year-old.
And that's where it was all made.
And you couldn't get in.
It was so exclusive that there was no way of breaking into that and getting some of that power.
That power was just held very, very tightly.
And the people within it were, I mean, I grew up with them.
They were four-lock tuggers.
They were elegant, funny, obedient.
Four-lock tuggers because they made so much money out of it.
I hardly know what to think about the Rockefellers other than that they should be all put down like rabid dogs.
That's how I feel about them.
Well, if you follow the Psalms, they tell us that that is what's going to happen.
So you needn't worry about that.
In the end, God has got this one sorted.
They're not going to have a good time.
Cool.
Could it be in my lifetime that this happens?
Could I see that happen?
It's very angry making.
Anyway, sorry.
Yes.
Yet a little while and the ungodly shall be clean gone.
Thou shalt look after his place and he shall be away.
That's what Psalm 37 tells us.
Anyway, I'm very intrigued by your... So this is in upper class Toronto?
No, Montreal.
Montreal.
Montreal.
Is Montreal socially smarter than Toronto?
It used to be very much smarter.
I mean, Toronto was thought of as hog town.
Right.
But once the Quebecois got a hold of it, everybody moved to Toronto and it became more diffuse.
Montreal was very linked to Boston and to some extent to New York.
So it was the families of the eastern seaboard that they kind of ran.
They ran certainly Canada and the U.S. and as we have seen, had enough money to buy themselves into every other country in the world.
So, yeah.
And my family were Americans, in fact.
Their claim to prominence was because they were descendants of many of Washington's generals.
And they were massive infrastructure builders prior to World War I. So they had a long family history going back to Puritan America.
And so that was our entry point into that world.
Right.
And, you know, my father went to all the right schools and had the right manners and was an exquisite gentleman, socially.
So, yeah, we were part of that world, but very junior, you know, just enough for me to get in there and watch, which, you know, I did.
Well, I'm enjoying your insider's perspective.
I have to say, I look at those, they occasionally appear in movies, don't they?
And occasionally in literature.
These American private schools, which make our private schools look positively down a hill.
I mean, you know, you think of the English public school is a thing, obviously, and it does educate the elite.
But The American private schools, from the League of Their Own, they're like a parody, a sort of pastiche of how they think English people are, the English upper class.
There's something very fake about it.
Strained.
Yeah, it is strained.
Like Ralph Lauren.
Yeah, yes.
Yes, I mean, I think they've changed.
When I went to school, it was very English and run down and the building was half timbered and, you know, we would wake up in the morning and the shampoo on the bureau had frozen overnight.
I mean, it was pretty brutal, my boarding school.
And it was modeled on Cheltenham Ladies College, in fact.
So the ones in the South, they just had so much more money.
I mean, I knew some of those people, but it wasn't part of our world.
Our world was more English.
Everybody traced their lineage to some aristocrat somewhere.
I mean, it was kind of de rigueur to do that in some form or other.
So the Nixon family, was your mother from a smart family as well?
No, they were from a good family in the sense that she was descended from Thomas Hooker who was the founder of Connecticut and who was kind of a runaway cleric from the Massachusetts Puritan.
It was pretty much locked down.
He disagreed with them on some point of theology and took a hundred people to the River Colony in Connecticut and settled there.
My mother's family, they were just good.
They founded little towns and they ran general stores.
You know, they sort of built themselves up.
And my grandmother on her side was a prairie school teacher.
They were just good people.
They were the good wasps.
Which is why I think that we were protected in many ways, as we had a very strong Christian heritage on both sides.
So we never got into the families who were you know, having satanic rituals.
And although, you know, looking back on it, I can identify three families who could have been involved in the more European, Luciferian organizations that they were running.
And I think it's clear to me from looking at the work of the Rockefellers that they must have been involved with that on some level.
But, you see, we served those people, and we were good.
And they allowed us to believe that we were good, you know, that everybody went to church.
I mean, I...
I mean, I was raised an Anglican and it was very formal.
It wasn't the evangelical history that I can look back on with my family when they were building, you know, the Erie Canal and digging the first cut on the Welland and running the Underground Railroad, which they did.
That was all deeply, profoundly and rigorously Christian in a very good way.
But by 1950 it had just become, you know, you have to go to church and you have to go to Sunday school and at boarding school we started with prayers every morning and so it had become formalist.
But it was still a very Christian world that I grew up in.
At the top of I think it was Luciferian.
That's my opinion.
I don't know, of course.
I mean, the Rockefellers, for example, I think they're supposedly Baptists originally, aren't they?
Yeah.
I'm sure it's a long time since any Rockefeller actually believed in God or rather batted for God's team.
But just going back to Montreal, so this was before it got sort of Frenchified and it was still the kind of upper-class sort of power centre of Canada.
And you were part of that, if only on a kind of junior level.
When you went to these parties, I mean, tell me what they were like.
Well, you know, we had a lot of balls during the year, and they would just start in September and run through till Easter.
And in the summers, it had a ritual that, say, July 1st, One family would hold the big party on July 1st.
So there were parties, there were parties, constant parties, all the time parties.
And they were very familial, but plush.
I mean, there was a lot of money being spent, and everybody turned up.
And they were, it was, I mean, it was fabulous.
Really looking back at it, it was fabulous.
And then, you know, the skiing thing in the winter, we all went to certain hills.
And, you know, for Murray Bay, which was up on the St.
Lawrence, people used to have their own train cars.
And they would take their train cars and all their kids and all the silver and all the They would just move it all up to these great big shingled houses overlooking the St.
Lawrence, and then the parties would begin.
They had verandas that would accommodate 300 people, and these shingled houses had ballrooms, and they would use them!
I mean it was it was terrific for about a hundred and fifty years and then and then all hell broke loose and it was over.
Yeah I was I was thinking as you were describing this this world where everyone has to everyone's position is dependent on them sucking up to the to the top families.
And I'm reading a book at the moment about the cultural history of Russia, a book called Natasha's Dance by Orlando Feijas.
I hadn't realised the degree to which everything was controlled from the top.
So, the Tsar, Peter the Great, instituted the new aristocracy of Russia.
He got rid of the old aristocratic class called the Boyars and invented this hierarchy.
And your position in that hierarchy depended totally on your loyalty to the Tsar.
If you didn't, if you showed any signs of retrenchment, or any signs of independence, you could have all your property taken from you in a trice.
And I was thinking, even as late as the 19th century, when they wrote to the Tsar, even the highest aristocrats in Russia had to sign their letter, your slave.
So they had slave status to the Tsar.
Yeah.
I was thinking of that world you describe and it's amazing and you wouldn't want to lose your place in that world, would you?
So you'd almost do anything to, you'd sell your soul really to stay there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean everybody behaved very, very well and if you went off the rails you were immediately shut out and permanently.
Permanently.
I mean, I had a moment of extreme bad, bad behavior.
And I was, I basically was run out of town on a rail.
So yeah, it was at some point during my Well, I went to Europe.
You know, you were sent to Europe at some point.
In my case, I was given the addresses and phone numbers of everybody who ran airlines.
in every country to phone if I wanted to stay or I needed help.
But I took my three boyfriends and went to Istanbul.
Not all at the same time, but I would sort of trade them off against each other.
I was very pretty.
And I took them to Istanbul and we bought hashish and brought it back.
And one of them had a diplomatic passport.
So by the time I was caught, because I was caught by my parents, and, you know, all hell broke loose.
Let's put it that way.
So, yeah, I was just, I became, I just, at some point, I went, this is not okay.
There's something wrong with this.
And I disagree.
And I started not conforming.
And that was my, in the mind of a 17 year old, that was my way out.
I had to become, I had to deal hashish and get out.
And I did get out.
So maybe the thing that made you do that is maybe why you've remained immune.
Or rather why you've seen the light now.
Maybe.
Because you never had full buy-in to that system.
No, no.
It was cruel.
I mean, the cruelty within it was astonishing.
You almost had to become a lizard.
Everybody was beneath you.
There were all these rules about behavior, and anybody who didn't behave in that manner was a lesser human.
By the time I was 18, it was over for me.
I disliked all of them.
Yeah.
You mentioned that to me before, about the cruelty.
Particularly the boys, you said.
They're sort of trained to be ruthless.
Yeah.
How did it work?
Yeah, you're trained to... If you weren't smart, Um, you were out, and if you weren't rich, you were out, because if you were smart, you would be rich.
So there were, but there was a very strong sense that other people were worth, were like half, they were 50% human, and the rest were just herd animals.
And, um, I could not tolerate that.
I could not tolerate it.
Yeah.
Again, you're sort of making me rethink my upbringing because, as you know, there's an English tradition of sending your children away to school at eight.
My sister went away at six, went to boarding school at six.
And I had a horrible time in the first year because, you know, you're missing your mummy.
And you've got horrible cold lumpy beds and you've got a headmaster who canes you if you're caught out of bed and the food's disgusting and the rooms aren't heated.
And I mean, we used to call my prep school Colditz as a sort of joke, but actually it was true.
Probably the conditions at Colditz were probably better because at least Colditz was a kind of aristocratic castle, whereas ours was just a kind of scuzzy Victorian place in Malvern.
I was very fly about it at the time and the years after I thought it was sort of character building.
But actually I think it probably, the people who say it does damage people.
Yeah.
Are probably right to a degree.
It creates these creatures.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cruelty was what you were learning and taking you away from your mother.
I went at 13.
Taking away from all the warmth and affection, I mean, it created a kind of lizard-like skin that you, that in order to triumph or survive because of, within the cruelty.
My first year at boarding school, I was, I was beaten up almost every day by older girls because I was from the country.
I was a hick.
Nobody knew who my family was.
I didn't know who my family was.
I couldn't defend myself.
And they just beat the crap out of me every day until I figured out how to get through it.
But I think that does it.
I mean, yeah, it's a cruel world.
They should not be running things, these people.
So on the outside, you were very poised and together.
And inside, I mean, that's what they make you do.
It's kind of like MKUltra without the... Yes, that's probably where they got it from.
So how did... I'm just panicking because my side hasn't uploaded at all yet, and I don't know why.
I don't want to waste this conversation.
It'd be really annoying.
Anyway, how did your mother get Okay, so I think what happened to her was because she had married into this upper-class world, she was hazed quite a lot and her first child died two months after he was born.
And she had what they called then a nervous breakdown.
She had, I have her psychiatric records because of the lawsuit that I'm involved in.
So what happened was that she had supreme anxiety.
And so they put her in the Allen Memorial and they put her to sleep.
And after a few weeks, they let her out.
But for the next nine months, She was given therapy by Ewan Cameron, who was the doctor who created the brainwashing techniques that were the foundation of MKUltra, which was to say... He was Scottish, wasn't he?
He was a Scot, yeah.
And he trained at all the great hospitals.
So he knew what he was doing.
And he was very, very ambitious.
How he got involved with the Rockefellers and the CIA was that he went to Germany during the Nuremberg trials to judge whether one of them, Hesse, was sane enough to stand trial.
And he and Alan Dulles went through all the records of all the Nazi doctors and all the concentration camps and had a lovely time thinking about how they can control the earth using these techniques.
And then came back and he was given this massive 50,000 square foot castle on the top of Mount Royal and told to get to work.
So my mother was his father.
Patient as he was her therapist and then after her third child She had another nervous breakdown and that was when the brainwashing started from what I can tell of her truncated hospital records because of There being so many lawsuits These records have been cleansed but she was given a What did they do to her?
What they would do, principally, was they would isolate somebody.
They would put gloves on their hands, blindfold them, block their ears, and isolate them for a week so that they would completely... They discovered that these women would completely break down and become infantile.
At that point, they could start to reprogram them.
So what they did was that they put headphones on them.
They would drug them and then play messages over and over and over again, hundreds of thousands of times.
Your mother hates you.
Your father hates you.
You are worth nothing.
You are nothing.
And they would do that for a week.
And then they would Transpose it into something you are strong you are so they were just they were trying to figure out how to How to program people how to program people and they they they would interview them using speed and a sodium pentothal so It it was um, it was a disaster it was a disaster what they did up there do
Do you remember your mother before she got programmed?
Not really.
Part of her admission was that she was being very cruel to me.
She thought I was a demon and she wanted to burn the house down around me.
So I don't imagine she was that great to me before.
I do remember her afterwards because she rebuilt herself.
She had been a sportswoman as a young woman.
She was a crack golfer and so she started rebuilding her body by just stressing it.
She would go skiing in a blizzard on the golf course and Um, and then she rebuilt her mind because she had been a pianist.
So she, she rebuilt her mind by playing classical music for three, four, five hours a day.
So what, when she came out the other end of that, she was entirely functional.
She had She was like a phoenix.
And then she became a real mother and a companion.
And she was brilliant and funny and beautiful.
And we all adored her.
And we adored her a lot because she had triumphed over this appalling thing that had happened to her.
But a lot of women did not survive.
And I've talked to a lot of daughters who said their mothers just sat in a dark room for the rest of their lives or just watched television or were just in bed and constantly needy or whatever.
They just casually broke people.
And most of them were women.
And the rest of them were middle class men.
Not upper middle class men.
Middle class men. .
Yep, that's what happened.
Whoa.
Um, so, um, your father?
Yeah.
Did he know what was going on?
No, he respected Cameron.
I mean, he was told by their GP, who was a titled, that Cameron was the most brilliant man in psychiatry on earth and we were lucky to have him.
Yeah.
That's the thing, isn't it, about these reputations.
Yeah.
It goes a long way.
Sure does.
Yeah.
So, why do you think they chose to experiment on the kind of upper-class females of Montreal?
I don't know.
That's a really good question.
I imagine... Well, I don't know.
I think that these women were showing signs of early feminism.
During the war, my mother had Well, she was a naval officer and she carried papers for the Atomic Commission to New York and various other places.
She was a journalist.
She didn't marry until she was 28.
So I think a lot of the women that these men married had been successful in their early years and they wanted to continue it.
They were uppity.
That's just me guessing here.
I don't know if that was the case.
I certainly, when my mother told my daughter after she had twins to definitely go back to work.
It was something that they were starting to take on as a possibility.
Other than that, your guess is as good as mine.
They were provincials.
Their husbands were willing to give them up.
They were highly intelligent people.
They wanted to see what they could do with that level of experimental subject.
Possibly that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I was thinking that what I was looking for was prestige.
Gustave Le Bon talks about that in The Madness of Crowds, that prestige is this quality, when you've got it, you can do anything because whatever nonsense you spout, you will be believed.
But then the moment the prestige bubble is burst, which I suppose is what happened eventually with the MK Ultra, I mean, there were lots of lawsuits, weren't there?
Oh God, they're still going on.
There's two of them going on right now.
And as far as I know, it is the most prominent subject because of the lawsuits.
They've settled three times to various patients, and the CIA paid off people in the 80s, and then the Canadian government has paid off people twice, and now there's two more lawsuits being being prosecuted right now and they will probably settle at some point because they don't have a leg to stand on.
I mean, these things are known.
But they did 150 other sub-projects, James, and we don't know anything about them.
It's interesting, isn't it, that the CIA, which really should have no remit in Canada, decided to use Canada as its kind of, it's like you're a sort of inferior...
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
That's extraordinary.
But then you've got, is Trudeau still your president?
President Bieber as I call your prime minister?
Yes, last night there was a by-election in a deeply, deeply liberal riding and it went overwhelmingly Conservative.
We think that Trudeau might get 20 seats in the next Parliament.
He might come fourth in the next Parliament and the Conservatives will win more seats than they ever have in Canadian history.
But it's all pretend anyway.
I mean, who was the Who was the supposed Conservative?
Harper?
Prime Minister.
What was he called?
Stephen Harper.
Stephen Harper.
That's it.
I used to, you know, when I knew less about the world, I used to think, yeah, well, there are some great leaders, you know, Conservatives.
There's Stephen Harper in Canada and John Howard in Australia.
And you realize once you discover the truth about that, they're all part of the New World Order.
They're all part of the same.
I was thinking about Trudeau only because if ever a man is the product of MKUltra style monarch programming, he is.
He's got to be, hasn't he?
There are rumors that he and Matthew Perry, that actor that was in Friends who died of an overdose recently, they were sexually, ritually sexually abused in Ottawa in the, I don't know, 60s or early 70s.
There was some sort of Luciferian cabal up there that his father was part of.
It was one of the reasons his mother went Crazy, batshit crazy.
And yeah, I think that's possible.
Very possible.
We don't have evidence of this stuff.
We have testimonies from many, hundreds and hundreds of testimonies from people, but they aren't recognized as legitimate enough to prove anything, which is extremely frustrating.
Well, inevitably with something as dark as satanic ritual, child rape, child murder, and mind control, you're not going to get a very clear paper trail because they're going to be very good at covering their tracks.
Yeah, yeah, and they kill anybody that steps out.
Yeah, they do.
And so then you've got All you can go on is the testimony of people like Jessie Sabota who may or may not be genuine because I mean how do you corroborate stuff like this?
Jessie Sabota said, you probably listened to that podcast, she was a sort of priestess in the satanic hierarchy and she said that she had seen Justin Trudeau's brother Participate in what's known as the 12-year-old rituals, where 12-year-old boys have to basically rip a girl to pieces as part of the ceremony.
And she said that Justin Trudeau would certainly have undergone a similar ritual.
But you're never going to, because the papers aren't interested in writing about this stuff because they're part of the problem.
Yeah.
Yeah, they wouldn't, they won't touch it.
I mean, the only hope I see is that so many people, not like us, but people not like us, know about this and are concerned about it.
So when you were talking about Polyev being part of the New World Order, and he certainly has made statements that make him Make it obvious that he's listened to some of the Weffer programming and he's kind of thought, okay, well, maybe.
But the thing is that in Canada, because of the truckers, so many people are woken up to this regime and the plans that they have for us that I don't think that Polyev, he's going to be surrounded by people who put him in power who are very, very cross, and they're not going to let go.
So if I think if if millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions of people know in their hearts, that satanic ritual child abuse is happening in our leadership class, that they can't that this is going to just at some point, it's just going to it, it's going to surface.
I have to believe that.
I wish I shared your optimism.
What I find, having been down the rabbit hole for what?
Properly down the rabbit hole for three or four years, what I find is that even people who've known about stuff like 9-11 much longer than me, A significant proportion of them are reluctant to engage at the level of the satanic ritual abuse thing.
I mean, even though we have the existence of things like the Rains List.
Yeah.
The Rains List was based on psychiatrists who've examined children who claim to be have been ritually abused.
And when they've got accusations corroborated by a number of children who could never have met one another, They add somebody to this reigns list.
Now, you've got lots of the prominenti of newspaper editors, senior politicians, and so on and so on.
A, it's not going to get reported in the newspapers, although it's probably cut and dry that these people are involved.
I'm not going to mention the names, but they're household names.
BBC characters particularly, BBC comedians, but okay, some of them are dead, so household names.
Edward Heath is on the list.
Who is, sorry?
Heath.
Edward Heath.
Edward Heath, obviously.
I mean, that's the thing.
People cannot quite conceive that an actual Prime Minister of Great Britain would have boys brought to his yacht, Morning Cloud.
They know he was a yachtsman.
So, they know that Ted Heath had a yacht.
They know he didn't have any women in his life.
There was something slightly dubious about his sex life.
Yeah.
But the very notion that a Prime Minister of Britain Would lure rent boys onto his yacht and then bump them off and toss them over the side?
People just don't... they can't believe it because then they'll ask questions like, well that must mean that his police protection must have known about this.
That must have been that... it's the same with...
People have blocks, like some people who come from my side of the political spectrum, you know, who used to think of themselves as conserters, refuse to believe that Margaret Thatcher could have been in any way compromised, or refuse to believe that the royal family could be compromised.
People have these kind of... Blocks.
These blocks, exactly.
And I think it's programming.
I mean, we haven't all been M.K.
Altred, but we have all been brainwashed by... Yeah.
Yeah.
So did you see the note that Catherine, Princess of Wales, passed to Diana's psychic that said, I have seen horrors, please help me?
Did you see that?
It came up last I'll send it to you after this and I remember looking at that and thinking, well, I know a great deal about the royal family and I know that all the way through that the royal families of Europe, that some of them are
Involved in satanic ritual abuse that seems to be absolutely proven in my mind and I need a lot of proof before I say something so it is possible that that the British royal family During the transition of power, introduced Catherine to one of the aspects of being a queen, and she freaked out and all hell broke loose.
And then when she appeared at the Trooping of the Colour, the relief I felt that she wasn't dead, that she hadn't been cloned, that she was looking normal, that she hadn't been exposed to some... I was so relieved That I've been brainwashed.
Elizabeth, I hate to rain on your parade, but I can point you to several channels where you'll find people expressing extreme scepticism as to whether that really was Cage.
I know, I know.
We're talking about deepfake technology.
There are various tells, for example, All the images that are available from that day, supposedly showing Kate, were provided by the Royal Family.
I don't think any independent media organisations photographed her.
Um, she, there's all sorts of, there was all sorts of weird stuff going on there.
The fact that she wore a dress.
Yes.
Modeled on the one in My Fair Lady.
Yeah.
I mean, as you, as you know, signs and symbols will be there undoing the, the, the, the, the, the families who control the world, whether they be the Rockefellers or, or the, the European royal families, um, they operate according to.
occult calendars according to gematria um i mean there's that weird photograph of princess diana wearing the rosemary's baby dress yes and then of kate wearing the same rosemary's baby
they cannot be unalive to the fact that this dress this exact well very similar dress was worn by mia farrow in a film directed by roman polanski about satanic - Yeah.
Ritual abuse and worse by giving birth to the to the to the just to a demon child or whatever.
Yeah, it's just bought the ending for those who haven't seen it.
But you wouldn't be flirting with this stuff.
I mean you think about how how Much image control matters to the royal family how in control of their press they actually are they can they can keep people away or invite them in as they choose so the idea that they would accidentally wear an Eliza Doolittle dress for the for the Especially when somebody who's supposedly undergoing cancer treatment.
I mean, you might get all sorts of awkward leakages and stuff.
You're not going to be wearing a white dress, as women have pointed out to me.
I obsessively listen to these people deconstructing that.
I was just pointing out that I felt relieved because it was all, you know, it was all, that's all nonsense.
And she's alive, and she's normal, and it's all normal.
I mean, I wanted to believe that.
I wanted very badly to believe that.
But, you know, the scar above her eyebrow, the whole thing is just... It's horrifying.
It's horrifying.
And I can understand why people would just block it because taking it on board is horrifying.
And I know my mother was M.K.
Eltred.
So even I want to believe that God is in his heaven and is all right with the world.
Well, you think about how we are programmed, if that's not too strong a word, To we want to believe that it's all going to end happily.
Yeah.
You know, the fairy tales where they live happily ever after.
And often these stories involve princes and princesses.
And every little girl grows up wanting to be a princess.
And you're thinking, well, I used to think, yeah, wouldn't it be great if my daughter became a princess?
Now I'm thinking, Go near those families!
Yeah, exactly.
Well that, that's exactly right.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, yeah, um...
Well, you reminded me.
I mean, I don't think that I did not have the upbringing that you had.
You really were sort of bottom rung, at least.
I didn't even get on the bottom rung of that particular social stratum, I don't think.
Because, I mean, my family were Midlands nuts and bolts manufacturers.
We're industrialists.
You don't get invited in if you're one of those.
Yeah, there's a lot of snobbery about the Midlands.
I remember that.
Totally, whereas, you know, I love the Midlands because I consider it to be... It's gorgeous!
They take the piss.
And you know what?
Let me just interject this.
The Nixons are a border clan family.
They were one of the names of the borders.
They were thieves.
They were a medieval criminal gang that fought both sides of those wars for hundreds of years.
I think that when I was involved with these people, my border clan self came out and thought, God damn them all to hell!
And I'd like to put them to the sword!
But they were a riding clan of the border for, you know, half a century.
Are we talking the English Scots border?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So Reavers, I think they were called.
They were Reavers.
They were a prominent Reaver family.
And they were attached to the Armstrongs.
Yeah.
Although it's funny, isn't it?
How even these kind of robber sort of dodgy families end up becoming part of the establishment.
I mean... Indeed so.
Exactly what happened to ours.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
You get sort of sucked in.
Why do you... I mean, I'm imagining.
That you would not have got to be European Bureau Chief of Life unless, A, you'd been good-looking, but perhaps more importantly, you came from the right family, you had your entry.
All the right manners.
Yeah.
That was a thing.
I could seamlessly interject myself into any situation, whether it was Nelson Mandela's back garden in Soweto or Buckingham Palace.
I was trained to that.
I was trained to it.
And my voice is moderated, and I'm pliable.
You know, I'm pliable.
Or I was.
I was pliable.
I was pliable and pretty and smart.
Actually, it just reminded me of a question I wanted to ask you earlier.
You described that sort of stultified atmosphere where Everyone's having a good time at these wonderful parties, but you're all aware that everyone is only there because of their ability to suck up to the power brokers.
Yeah.
Did you notice that in your father?
No, my father was independent sort.
He because he'd had a very successful war and had Uh he'd got he I mean he he he went through hell.
But he came out the other side, and he had that strength behind him.
So he could suck up to people so long, to the point where he could run his various factories that he ran.
And socially, he was one of those men who, they entertain people.
I mean, he was very funny at parties.
He was, you know, everybody adored him, but not at a party.
He didn't have friends.
He had his army, fellow army colonels who came.
They were his friends, but everybody else was hands off.
You know, he was a solitary man.
He didn't play golf with people.
He didn't go on hunting trips with people.
He didn't go and have lunch at those clubs for fun.
He was just, you know, he had a wall up and I mean, I know when I told you I wanted to talk to you, that his family was deeply Christian.
He was a deeply committed Christian.
It wasn't formalist for him.
God, to him, was everything.
So he behaved as if he was going to meet Jesus Christ tomorrow, and everything had to be ethically done.
So, you know, I hated it growing up, but he certainly turned me into the woman I am today, because he gave me the strength to, you know, Say the unpopular thing and walk out of a profession where I could, you know, I was offered, oh, why don't you come and edit Saturday Night, which is like a major intellectual magazine in Canada, or come and edit the Vancouver Province.
And I would just, I had the strength to walk away because of him.
He had the strength because he had a monumental Christian heritage.
And when I say Christian heritage, I mean that they were all serious about their Christianity, so that when we moved out to Vancouver and I met my great aunt and uncle, they were prosperous, but basically what they did was they knew where every sparrow fell in Vancouver where everybody was hurting and how to help them.
And that's how they lived their lives.
And that's how all of his family had lived their lives, their entire lives.
You know, they had enough money to be comfortable, but in their spare time, their primary goal was to help other people, to practice their Christian faith within the community or city that they lived in.
And yes, within those cities, because they were financially stable, and they did so much good, they became prominent.
But, you know, social climbing, my grandmother was a big social climber.
She was, you know, a socialite.
She kind of cracked the whip when it came out.
My father went, you know, it's not meaningful.
It's not meaningful.
Yeah.
It's not meaningful.
That's why I have hope for America, because I think there are more people like that, and I think they're waking up.
This is an act of will to be positive.
It's not, you know, if I use...
Yeah.
So, I mean, that was the thing that actually founded America, not the Rockefellers and their brutalism.
Or was it?
That's another rabbit hole.
There are theories that America was compromised from the start.
Basically, the early families were, you know... Sent over and forced into?
Yeah, yeah, to a degree.
I mean, look, by the time of the building of Washington DC, certainly, you look at the Masonic occult lines that that city is built on.
I mean, there were those who say out there that America and Britain joined at the hip or the, you know, the centres of control of the Vatican, the City of London and DC.
I think that's right.
Yeah, I do.
Probably.
Yeah.
Sorry about that.
Okay.
I just knew what would happen.
I didn't...
I didn't want the podcast to be brought to an end by the dog scratching my leg in a really annoying way.
But also, it gave me a chance to make a cup of tea, which I need at this time of day.
Otherwise, I flag.
So, sorry about that.
My pleasure.
I got to have some coffee.
So, there we are.
Now, what you were saying about your father, by the way, sorry, I've got to ask, because there was a time when I was really interested in World War II and I know the Canadians had a really, they were kind of used as cannon fodder by the Allies, given the dirtiest operations.
Where was your father?
Was he in the Netherlands?
He was there and then he went into Germany, yeah.
Yeah, they did some of the grimmest fighting.
Yeah, because so many Canadians are border clan, they were considered really crack fighters because they were so brutal.
I mean, as I understand it, the border clans were the best fighters in medieval Europe.
They were hired by every crown as mercenaries.
And in World War One, that became recognized by the British, because they were just more violent than any other race, which is weird, because you think of Canadians as mild-mannered and so on, but
Apparently what they did was so violent and so over-the-top that they were used as cannon fodder because they were so violent.
Interesting, interesting and horrible when you realize that all wars are basically World War I destroyed the U.S.
and Canada.
I mean, the ballet park in Canada and the U.S.
was extraordinary.
I mean, we were, we were, I mean, the Belle Époque in, in, in Canada and the U.S. was extraordinary.
And World War I just, I think it was, I think it was in part started to push down Canada and the U.S.
I really do.
Well, I mean, I think it's the same people behind it always.
It's the families who control the world's wealth and use disaster as a way of profiting and getting their blood sacrificed.
Yep, 100%.
What you were saying about your father's Christianity, I'm sure that's been a A protection for you.
I sometimes get, there are some people who say, oh, James Dallying Poe, I used to listen to James Dallying Poe, but he's become unlistable since he started banging on about Christianity.
It's a minority voice, that one, but I do hear it.
But I think that once you've reached a certain point, knowing what we know, you realize that The people are running the world and responsible for this stuff are in the service of Satan stroke Lucifer and therefore what has a kind of moral duty apart from anything else and self-interest to work for the other team to work for the team God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think that I returned to Christianity after a, discovering my family's heritage, but also for the Sunday Times Magazine, the London Sunday Times Magazine sent me into Evangelical Christians in the States, writing about the women in these churches.
So I spent about a month, I lived in their houses, I went to their churches, and I just loved them so much that And one of them was a Christian conservative, Baptist, and she started praying for me and I think it worked.
She would wake up, she woke up at four o'clock in the morning and she would pray until six.
And she'd done that her whole life.
And she said, well, I'm putting you on my list.
I said, oh, thank you very much.
But yeah, I think that Christianity, to me, is the only faith that really collects you when you're in trouble.
And I think I probably hooked onto it when I was about eight, and my family was in all the psychological trauma that came along with MKUltra and the My father being shot in the head and, you know, we were on the surface.
It all looked wonderful, but there was a lot of trauma within the family.
And I just remember riding my little circus pony across a field and being caught up By something and just all of a sudden I felt safe and I felt warm and I felt enclosed and I guess at that time I probably identified it as God or Christ because I went to Sunday school.
But yeah, I feel, I feel, I feel enclosed and carried by that and have my whole life.
So I'm on your side, James.
Well, that's good.
So you didn't mention your father being shot in the head.
You can't let that one go by.
Sorry.
Well, yeah, I mean, and his friend said, well, saw him in the Jeep going off to the hospital and blood just streaming.
Well, the last time we're going to see him, but he He recovered and came back and went back to the battlefield but he did have the symptoms of a traumatic brain injury.
He had a hair trigger temper that was just unpredictable.
I think it's quite interesting and again I apologize to all those people who don't like Christianity but yeah why should I apologize yeah it just seems to me that reading the Bible as I do it's it's called these times that we're living in now it everything it says about everything okay so for example when you read the the Gospels Christ is constantly saying
It's really tough being a Christian.
You're going to have loads of people giving you a really hard time.
You're going to get persecuted.
They don't want to tell the truth.
And there was this sort of emphasis on speaking the truth regardless of the personal cost.
Well, I think it's no coincidence that those of us who have Woken up to what's going on in the world and have called it out.
Or also have found Christianity.
Yeah.
It is actually amazing that, you know, Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan, it's, well, it's fantastic, really.
I mean, what better way to spend your life, huh?
And nobody is going to kill us for being Christian, hopefully.
I don't know.
I don't know either.
We've got that to look forward to, if revelation is right.
Yeah, I have a reader who's, she was in the district attorney's office in New York State, and her brother was the pilot who flew Flight 93 into the field on 9-11, and she says, you know, I want you to be armed.
You do have a gun, don't you?
I'm Canadian!
I wouldn't even know where to buy a gun!
I mean, I think I'm too obscure, but You're not, James.
Oh great, thanks.
Point them at me.
So the upside is that with luck I get to go to heaven sooner.
So they're kind of shooting themselves in the foot.
Yeah, good position.
And also it means I don't have to live through the tribulation, which is not going to be fun.
That's one thing that you realise is that you've got to go with whatever God's plan is for you.
Yeah.
You can't... Yeah.
That's the deal.
Yeah, that is a very hard spiritual exercise or hurdle to get over that you're going to be okay no matter what.
I don't think I'm there yet.
I think I, you know, I must have prayed Psalm 91 Hundreds of thousands of times over the last 20 years since the environmental movement started attacking me.
I mean, it's just, it's been my mainstay.
But to get to the point where you, you say, okay, kill me, I'm fine with it.
I'm not, I'm I'm not there yet.
I'm not at that level of surrender or submission to God's will.
I don't want to be a martyr.
I don't want to be a martyr.
I don't, I don't. - No, well, I mentioned this to a priest the other day, no, well actually a few years ago.
And he said, you know, if that's your worry, you should really spend more time reading about martyrdom.
He was trained to be an orthodox priest so I suppose he would say that because they're quite into that thing.
But you know, read the lives of the saints and just focus on that kind of thing.
No, I was going to ask you something.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, we haven't talked about the environmental thing.
Tell me about your experiences of being the bête noire of these eco-nurses.
Well, they don't harass me anymore, but for about, I would say about 10 years, They tried to get me fired.
They tried to drive me off the island.
They scared me nearly to death.
They would drive into my driveway with their headlights blaring and rock music at midnight and I had a straight shot driveway with no gate and I was living alone with two terriers.
They would drive in and then they would reverse just as fast.
Randomly.
They would write letters to the newspaper, like dozens, over a period of a year.
Sometimes like five letters would be in the local newspaper, tearing me to pieces.
They wrote all my publishers.
They were just, they were the worst people on earth.
And then I don't know whether you read all of Nicofascist, but I had to do a subdivision of my land.
I cut it in half and I sold the house at the top of the hill.
And I kept the lower 16 acres which are spectacularly beautiful but don't have a view.
I sold the million-dollar view because I needed the money and so I went through the process of subdivision on an island which has been totally locked down by the
Green regime so that the regulations for doing this kind of thing are like five or six fold more difficult than doing it in a normal rural area and When I went through this and I didn't work during that time I spent all my time lobbying the people on the island and To let me do this.
I went to all my neighbours.
I sucked up to everybody.
I went... I sucked... It was just... It was shocking.
You're using your upper class skills.
It was shocking what I would do or say to get this subdivision through.
But when I figured it out, that formed the basis of Ecofascist because I realised that this has been done in every rural area in the world.
And so I managed to sell this idea to Adam Bellow at HarperCollins and I went and I drove through the U.S.
and I went to ranching country to the Most forested part.
And I talked to everybody.
I talked to foresters, miners, ranchers, small-town mayors, county councillors, county attorneys, to find out what had happened.
And these people have just been tortured.
And you know what, James?
Bringing it back to the beginning, all started by the Rockefellers.
Every single thing was started by the Rockefellers.
The Rockefellers, every year, they hold this big meeting.
They bring all the environmental groups together.
And they decide who they're going to attack next.
And what they've done to rural America, and to a lesser extent, Canada, because most of us is frozen, is just, it's absolutely criminal.
I mean, they've destroyed millions and millions of families.
And so that, that, once I did that, they kind of strictly left me alone because they were afraid of me.
Oh, interesting.
That's interesting.
So, like bullies, when you stand up to them, they run away?
Yeah, yeah.
Hopefully.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's interesting.
I'm doing a revised edition of Watermelons at the moment.
Oh, good.
Good.
And I'm just, I'm being lazy slightly.
I'm just going to top and tail it.
I'm going to take out some of the more egregious mistakes from the book, which I'll tell you about in a minute actually.
But I'm going to give it a new introductory chapter and a new outro.
Chapter.
Right.
And one of the missing pieces of the jigsaw is the role of the Rockefellers.
I mean, I think you'd be pushing it to say that everything that's wrong with the world is the fault of the Rockefellers.
Because I think there are other families, at least as evil, if not more, and probably more powerful.
But There's no doubt that when it comes to environmentalism, no family has pushed it for as long as the Rockefellers have.
They're behind everything.
Yeah.
From the 1940s onwards.
Yeah.
They've got their finger, you know, I mean, Maurice Strong, who, you know, the Canadian who sort of pushed it all through.
Maurice Strong was the guy who did the Rio Earth Summit, wasn't he?
Yeah.
He was a Rockefeller bag man, basically, I think.
Yeah, they find these people and elevate them and they become their willing slaves.
But yeah, it's fairly easy to find out what the Rockefellers did because they do announce their meetings.
Every year and they run an entire website filled with what they do But they they run all the activism if they decide that the oil sands are going to be shut down That's where they put their money I mean I I think there was a big fire up at the oil sands a couple years ago and And it was started.
I mean, there is evidence that fires were set in a circle around the oil sands.
I mean, they fund all those people.
They fund the worst kind of eco-terrorists and they fund the people that go to the legislatures and make petitions and sign things and so on.
I mean, right where I live right now, We have about 95% of our land is vacant.
It's in forests and preservation and so on.
And we have no housing for hospital workers, for checkout people or any of the teachers or doctors or medical personnel.
They have to be put into motels.
Because they won't allow new houses to be built.
And if you try to build a house, or try to change the build out or the regulations to allow low cost or medium cost housing, the Rockefellers have funded all these little groups that will stand up in meetings and cry about the forest and cry about the birds and cry about the climate.
And the water, and I'm so scared for my grandchildren's future, and then they march out little, little Greta's, who say, I'm so worried about you, and the, and, and the whole thing collapses.
And it, I mean, they may not be behind everything, but they're certainly behind that.
They're certainly behind that.
No, they are.
I'm going to change the bulb on that light thing so it sorts it for us.
Yeah, you asked me whether I'd read Ecofascists.
You'll read...
I'm not saying this flatly.
It's okay, you don't have to.
No, no, but I picked it up in order to kind of just flick through it and fill it out all the good bits.
But actually, I found the story so compelling that I read it for pleasure.
Oh, thank you.
It's a really good read.
And I like the personal story about, you know, the zoning thing.
But you do describe, I think, something that will strike a chord with a lot of people who live in the country.
Why is it that our country is just a shadow of its former self?
Why are our communities dying?
Why can't people afford to... Why is everything run down?
And the reason is, certainly in your part of the world, it's to do with zoning regulations which prevent people from running any kind of business, even ones that might be appropriate to the area.
Yeah, what they've done is planned de-development.
They mean it to be shabby and run down and ruined and hard to get things and they have pulled all the money out of there and then they sent in these awful activists who they've stood up to drive people out of the country into cities.
I mean, it seems so clichéd, bad, you know, evil, and so it's hard to take on board, but that's what they've done.
They have willfully destroyed rural life.
Willfully.
Because it's all part of the grand plan, as you say, to move us out of the country, which they see as their domain.
Yeah.
They want the resources and they want to do whatever they want with them.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
They see that the earth is their playground and they don't want us useless eaters getting in the way of whatever.
And they want to turn everything into carbon parks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you...
I mean...
Some people say, why are you even talking about this stuff?
Why do you care who these families are or what they're up to?
We shouldn't be focusing on that.
We should be talking about what really matters, which is how to build a resistance, how to fight back.
Like you.
I'm curious.
I'm a journalist.
That's the reason I became a journalist.
Because I wanted to know how things work.
Me too.
So it matters to me to understand what the mechanism is by which families like the Rockefellers run the world.
How do they co-opt people?
How do they do it?
Well, I mean, in the environmental business, they just stand them up and tell them that they're noble fighters and here's some money and people who otherwise would be working at Starbucks suddenly become noble and they will...
I remember being on a ferry and I put this in the book with this young couple, good looking.
They were working on their laptop and they were deciding which of the five or six organizations letterhead that they would use to protest whatever.
They were protesting.
So they've built this extraordinary structure within the environmental industry that is almost implacable.
You can't fight it.
The only way you can fight it is, like Louisiana said, no more UN regulations are to be affected in this jurisdiction.
But what we No, what they've done is the Rockefellers are lazy.
So they have within the UN, they've built these template regulations that are just exported into small communities all over the world.
So every we have the same regulations as you.
It's not personal, individual to Salt Spring Island or to whichever county you live in.
It all comes out of the UN, and it could be interchanged.
We could take your regulation.
It would be the same as the regulation that we have.
And it's hardcore.
It's nailed.
into the regulatory structure so that you have to either conform or change the law.
So, states, two or three states in the US have said, okay, no more WEF, no more UN regulations, so they can just dump all of that and make The regulation suited to the individual town, which is what it should be.
Yeah.
Regulation should be not come from Turtle Bay, which the Rockefellers, you know, started.
It should come from right here.
You know, it should come from the people right here who are doing it.
I mean, I see it as that is the future.
That's the future for all kids.
You know, they have to go back to their home places and take them back and build Healthy, strong, specifically individual-to-the-place communities.
I don't think anybody's going to be chasing around Paris and London and Berlin trying to be artists anymore.
I mean, it's corrupt anywhere and it's depressing and it's disgusting.
That ship has sailed a long time ago.
Yeah, all these things, like, you remember all these things that were kind of Given in our in our youth.
Yeah that Paris was the most beautiful city in the world Yeah, that that Italy had la dolce vita that that that all this stuff It's completely over.
They've they've killed.
Yeah, everything.
Yeah, they have yeah, it's it's it's extraordinary and I I mean The motivation Of these people.
They must actually delight in doing evil.
They must.
Have you ever met one of them?
A Rockefeller?
No.
No, I don't think so.
No.
No, I think...
I mean, I've been adjacent to, I had, my boarding school roommate had a summer house outside of Boston in Prouts Neck, which is very, you know, like, and those people were probably adjacent to Rockefeller's, but no.
I never really vent.
By the time I got to the age where I could get into the high society of Newport, etc., I was a complete Bolshevik and thought that they were rubbish.
And, you know, as I think I told you at one point, the people who were Involved with the Rockefellers in Montreal society, they kept very much to themselves.
They didn't join in.
They weren't there.
The Bronfmans and the McConnells and the Morgans, all of which, you know, were very, very, very, very, very rich.
They socialized in Europe and the States.
So I think that upper crust, you know, that floated above, and that's how they got into, you know, Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands' fantasy castles of child sacrifice and hunting young women through the woods and great stuff like that, you know?
But yeah, those people, those people, they were doing that.
That's what they were doing.
I think it incrementally, they just got sucked in.
Well, you know, Satan's got to have his little helpers, hasn't he?
I mean, if Satan's going to put out for you, you've got to give something in return.
Yes, eh?
But I mean, every time I think about it, I laugh because it's the stupidest thing ever.
I mean, why would you get involved with that?
It's so stupid.
It always ends in pain.
I mean, I just think that they must not be very smart, really.
Yeah, but...
The temptations of the world, it seems to me, are in Satan's gift.
I mean, ultimately God created everything, sure, but it's kind of Satan's domain, isn't it?
The sex, the drugs, the rock and roll, the things that we're conditioned to desire.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the gluttony.
Yes, gluttony.
So, he's got those covered.
So, he's kind of got the things that we want and status.
So, all the seven deadly sins, basically.
So, he's got the pride thing.
All the things that when we're setting out in life, we kind of want a piece of because they're kind of cool.
Yeah.
I mean, exactly.
I thought the sort of Sunday school life of the virtuous women in my family was horrifying.
The last thing I wanted to do was to be one of them and spend all my life doing charity work.
No, I'm not going to do that.
I'm going to Paris.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Although I think to be fair on ourselves, you know, the naughtier selves of our youths, we were living in a culture where Vice was kind of made sexy and desirable and almost a natural order of things.
Yeah, I guess.
Yes, I remember when I was just out of school and when I was at university, I used to start theater companies.
And I mean, I had a very active prayer life, which was quite, and I don't think I've ever told anybody this, James.
Now I'm telling everybody.
I had a very active prayer life, and I would generally, I would negotiate with God.
I would say, well, could I have this?
And what do you want me to do in order to have this?
And that's how I sort of would build these little companies I'd start.
And I remember walking out of the third in Toronto and thinking, all right, I want for 10 years, I want to have no help from the divine.
I just want to live the way everybody else lives and, you know, find out what that feels like.
And to the, almost to the day, 10 years later, I was living in London with, um, I rented two rooms in the house of the Rector of Grantham, and I was dating a devout Catholic.
Ten years to the day!
Yeah.
And I'll tell you, those ten years were the most miserable of my life.
Hands down.
Hands down.
Miserable.
I mean, it looked glamorous on the outside, but I was so unhappy.
So I don't know how normal people live without God, frankly.
I really don't.
Yes.
Again, to quote Psalm 37, delight thou in the Lord and he will give thee thy heart's desire.
I mean, it's a great deal if you can make it work.
I mean, if you trust what the Psalms tell us, which are the distilled essence, I think.
Yes, I agree.
I agree.
Yeah.
I was interested, apropos of nothing in particular, I was in church the other day reading the lesson and I was struck As I often am, actually, by how much of the liturgy is basically rip-offs of the Psalms.
The people who wrote the liturgy just basically took their favourite bits out of the Psalms, sometimes turned them into questions or to, you know, responses or whatever.
But basically, the Psalms are... Everything.
...are key.
Yeah.
And the language is so beautiful.
It's so beautiful.
Well, I was going to ask you, which version of Psalm 91 do you use?
Probably the King James Version.
That's the one I know as well.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
I was really scared.
They, they badly scared me.
I, um, and I was kind, I was alone.
I, I was seeing Jamie, but he was in Victoria.
My mother, although wonderful, was, I couldn't, you know, she's fragile.
I had to be careful around her.
I didn't know anybody.
And, um, I was just being mercilessly attacked and, I found it one day and I just, I lived inside it for months.
Under his feathers, you trusted her.
Yeah.
I know.
It is a good one.
Apparently it's the one Used by the US Marines.
Oh, is it?
Hmm.
I'm sure I've heard stories of people who've recited that psalm and it's protected them when other people have been killed.
I wouldn't be surprised.
It's pretty powerful.
It's the second song I learned.
And it's definitely one of the favorites.
Because you need... We're fighting a spiritual war.
Anyone who doesn't realize that the people who run the world are working for Satan, I think he's just kind of living in a... They're living with one foot in normie world.
Yeah.
I mean, I think that Time Magazine and the Time Magazine Empire The only way you could really rise up in the organization was to, first of all, you had to fire people.
That was your first task.
Yeah, the shit test.
Yeah, you had to fire people.
And the second thing you had to do was, like, compete within this organization that was a blood sport.
I mean, people just went for you.
And the only way that you could really rise up was that you were the meanest son of a bitch in the arena.
And I think that's, I mean, that's the only big organization that I've been a part of.
I mean, I was there for eight years.
I was a department head, so I went to all the meetings when all the Roman centurions would come to town and say, these are our plans for the future.
And you'd sit there and you'd take, be taken to these extremely expensive restaurants and, and stuffed full of food and alcohol and, you know, like a sacrificial pig.
And yeah, it was brutalism, brutalism.
And so I was, I assume that to be in every profession to rise up.
You have, you practice brutalism period.
Yes.
That was very, I got that.
I remember going into journalism and getting that vibe that early on they were trying to suss out how far you would be prepared to go in order to get on.
Yeah.
Past or failed that I suppose they pass the shit test.
They don't be given these these these jobs to prove whether they could be a shit and they would they would they would go far often.
They would be promoted to editorial management even because that's what they're looking for.
They're looking for psychopathy.
The only reason I felt uncomfortable doing it.
I didn't realize how moral I was at the time, but I just I just didn't like the the feeling it gave me.
And the only reason I got on as far as I did was because I was just so bloody good at writing.
Unlike in America, where you say it's incredibly driven by, editorially driven, and the editors basically rewrite your copy, there was still that tradition, which I could be part of, where if you write really well, if you write, as they call it, clean copy, in other words, you don't need much editing, then you are quite useful, even if you won't do the shit, pass the shit test.
Yeah, but you're always kept in a state of uncertainty.
So you don't get any security.
The only way you get security is by being a brutal son of a bitch.
Yes, that's so true.
I was always living by my wits.
I was always not sure where the next bit of...
When you were, um, what was you, you were saying you were a pig, you were a, um... Stuffed pig.
When you were a stuffed pig?
Yeah, when they were doing... Yeah, just go, go ahead.
Did you get, did you ever get any sense of the stuff that we know now?
That, that you were basically creating propaganda for the masses and just support, supporting these evil people?
Well, I didn't know the depth of evil, but I knew that I was part of a machine that was selling American ideology all over the world.
I certainly knew that.
I was there for the experience.
I mean, timing sent me everywhere.
I met everybody, and I knew that it wasn't Uh, ethical or good.
Um, but it was giving me the experience that I very badly wanted.
I mean, I wanted to sit in Nelson Mandela's back garden and I wanted to, I wanted to go to those places and I was so lucky that they gave me that opportunity.
But I didn't, I knew it wasn't real writing.
Uh, so.
What's, what's Nelson Mandela's back garden like?
It was very humble.
It was about the size of a 200 square foot room and all the furniture was run down and his house, the kitchen was the size of a closet and everybody was jammed into it.
His sitting room Maybe a hundred square feet.
I mean, very tiny.
Those houses were tiny.
And fences were eight feet high.
And they sacrificed a ram out on the lawn.
What, to propitiate the gods?
I don't know why.
Their dark gods.
I don't know why, but I didn't want to be there.
That's weird.
That's weird.
That's the thing.
So when I was meeting all these people in my time as a journalist, you know, Hollywood stars, politicians or whatever, I took everything at face value.
I assumed that the Hollywood stars had got there by raw talent.
Same with the pop stars.
And I believe, I think they're called Bible are they in the security industry?
It's what you call your cover.
I believed the narrative in the back, the official version.
But now, you did as well, yeah.
Yeah, I thought they were all geniuses at their specific task.
But a lot of them were talented.
I mean, you too were talented and George Michael was gifted.
They were gifted people.
So, you met George Michael before he popped his clogs?
Yeah, he was He was lovely, really, a gentle soul.
I was there, we were doing a cover try, and so I flew the makeup artist he insisted upon down to Saint-Tropez, and he spent most of the time in the bathroom blow-drying his hair.
He was very insecure.
He was very scared.
And lovely.
And obviously went right off the rails.
God in heaven.
What a man.
You're never, one is never sure with these, the pop stars that die prematurely.
Yeah.
There's always a suspicion, isn't there, that maybe they tried to escape their programming.
It's like they didn't want to be part of the thing anymore, and death was the price they paid.
Yeah, or they're another blood sacrifice, right?
Well, yeah, exactly.
That's it.
I mean, the whole 27 Club thing, where they all seem to So Daniel Day-Lewis has managed to escape, hasn't he?
He's up in Ireland, like, hiding out most of the time.
He quit the profession.
I remember interviewing him and he was hiding behind a pillar in Brown's Hotel and was very quiet and monosyllabic.
And you too has managed to survive by becoming globalist sales people.
I don't know about, I've, I think that certainly Bono, Bono is, is, is, is, sorry to use this phrase, but balls deep and looking into the conspiracy.
I mean he's absolutely, he's, there are some Ronan's in ex-Celsus and I'd say Bonner is one of them.
Tom Cruise is one of them.
We're talking pretty much high priests of the forces of darkness.
Yeah.
There were these kind of, you say that Daniel Day-Lewis, maybe that's his designated role to be the actor who's constantly announcing after every film, this is the last film I'll ever make, and retiring into the bogs this is the last film I'll ever make, and retiring into the bogs of Ireland, or wherever he goes, and then
In the same way that David Bowie's designated role seems to have been to half Half reveal what's going on and be enigmatic at the same time.
This is their day job after all, deceiving us.
We're lucky we got out, James.
We're lucky we weren't sucked further in.
For real.
Well, tell me that when I'm found in my hotel room with a... hanging by my doorknob, which used to be the bizarre CIA assassination method they use on... I mean, like, how?
How do you do that?
How would you... Yeah.
How do you commit suicide?
Oh, I'm gonna top myself.
I know what I'm gonna do.
I'm gonna hang myself using the doorknob in my hotel suite.
Yeah.
No, I know.
I console myself that eternity is a very long time.
Yeah.
And that these people, presumably, unless sort of God has suddenly relents, are going to be punished for this for eternity.
It's hard to believe, isn't it?
But then again I sometimes wonder whether that's not too long a sentence because every day when I go walking the dog and I look at Nature.
Sorry, I look at God's creation because that's what it is.
And I think this is just amazing.
We're just coming to the end of the season where the bee orchid, every year there's one or two bee orchids which look like bees, look like bumblebees.
And I pass them every time and I go and check them out because they're so, so beautiful.
There's no way they evolved, as you know, 33rd degree Freemason Darwin told us.
These things were created by God.
And I thank God for phase creation and I just think, imagine how wonderful the world would be if these bastards hadn't got their filthy thing, you know, ruining the countryside with wind turbines, for example.
You know, I mean, those are satanic.
I remember that piece that you wrote about them that just had me helplessly laughing.
You made a joke about crucifixes.
It was just wonderful.
Yeah, bat-chomping, bird-slicing eco-crucifixes.
That was so good.
No, I don't.
You see, that's again, look, we both recognize that the environmental movement is fundamentally evil because it's the exact opposite of what it pretends to be.
It pretends to be about Cherishing the environment and nature and it's actually about destroying it.
Yeah on every level.
Well, yeah, that's exactly what they do And I mean that was the thing that I discovered when I drove that, you know conserved rangelands Rangelands turn to desert and sagebrush conserved forests turn into tinderboxes Farmland goes to brush and invasive species every bit of conserved land that they have Yes, that's right.
set aside is degrading i mean land needs man the earth needs man to bring it forward so yeah they uh yes that's right
that's one of the things i learned from your um your book that that if you don't maintain forests if you don't clear the underbrush what you get is much more intense fires which destroy everything as opposed to cyclical fires which enable it to Exactly.
And they've burned millions of acres of forest now because of their policies.
Millions of acres of forest in the States have just gone up in flame and same in Canada.
It's awful.
It's awful what they've done.
Yeah.
What was the owl that they... The spotted owl.
The spotted owl.
Yeah, just complete bullshit.
Complete bullshit right down to the very bottom of the idea.
The spotted owl is being predated by the barred owl which is flying east and it's bigger.
We've got them all over our forest.
It's just the stupidest a bunch of science which is why I mean I can understand people falling for the climate science thing because the Rockefellers have stood up every single organization and paid all these scientists to say oh yeah uh-huh it's happening for sure for sure for sure and then there's the the as soon as they retire they recant and say well there's a problem here and there's a problem there and a
Problem here and a problem there.
But I mean, that's why it's so evil is that they've twisted 50 years of science to bullshit.
It's, I mean, they have to be in a Luciferian cult to do that.
They have to be.
It is about, to understand environmentalism, you have to understand the concept of satanic inversion.
Right.
So, these technologies which purport to save the environment, like wind turbines, actually destroy it on an industrial scale.
I mean, the poor old whales having their sonar disrupted by sea wind turbines, and birds and bats sliced and diced, and the livestock underneath that gets Freaked out by it.
It's it's it's it's horrible and and yet there are still people who say oh, but I think they're quite beautiful I think it's just morons Yeah, yeah, um right I think I'm going to walk the dog.
I've got this notion that I don't like podcasts to go on too long because A, I get exhausted and B, it makes me like Joe Rogan.
I don't like Joe Rogan.
I think he's part of the deception.
Do you?
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm afraid so.
You're actually more radical than I am and trust me I'm the most radical person within 500 miles.
I'm completely radical Elizabeth.
I warn people never go full Delingpole because it's just like Well, anyway, it was a great pleasure.
A great pleasure, and I thank you for it.
Thank you.
Likewise.
No, Elizabeth, you must promote your excellent sub-stack and whatever else you want to promote, so tell us where we can find you.
Welcome to Absurdistan.
That's all I need to say.
Really?
Right?
Yeah.
That's your sub stack.
They can find you.
Welcome to Absurdistan and look out for your books, which are worth reading.
Yeah, of course they are.
And I'm thinking of collecting some of the sub stack pieces in a book published by Chelsea Green, if I can stand it.
I just, I mean, I don't find the book publishing process fun, but they want me to do it, and so I might do that, and it would be published in the fall of 25.
So yeah.
If we're alive by then!
If we're alive!
I don't know.
I think we'll have had a world war by then.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Okay.
There it is.
God wins in the end.
Thank you Elizabeth Nixon for a great podcast and thank you my lovely viewers and listeners for watching or listening.
Please do support me if you can.
I really appreciate it.
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