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June 11, 2024 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:36:18

Psalm 110: Reuben Hunter

Rev. Reuben Hunter is Associate Minister at the International Presbyterian Church in Ealing, West London.https://www.ipc-ealing.co.uk ↓ ↓ ↓ Buy James a Coffee at: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/jamesdelingpole The official website of James Delingpole:https://jamesdelingpole.co.uk x

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	Psalm 110.
	This is the Book of Common Prayer version, translated by Miles Coverdale.
	The LORD said unto my LORD, Sit thou on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
	The LORD shall send the rod of thy power out of Zion.
	Be thou ruler, Even in the midst among thine enemies.
	In the day of thy power shall the people offer thee free will offerings with unholy worship.
	The dew of thy birth is of the womb of the morning.
	The Lord swear, and will not repent, thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
	The Lord upon thy right hand shall wound even kings in the day of his wrath.
	He shall judge among the heathen.
	He shall fill the places with the dead bodies, and smite in sunder the heads over divers' countries.
	He shall drink of the brook in the way.
	Therefore shall he lift up his head.
	Welcome to the Psalms with me, James Delingpole.
	And today we're going to do Psalm 110 with Reuben Hunter.
	Welcome to the Psalms, Reuben.
	Reuben, I know nothing about you other than that you have been recommended to me as somebody who'd be good to do the Psalms with and I detect a Northern Irish accent.
	Is that right?
	Yes, that's right.
	I was brought up in Northern Ireland.
	I have lived in London though for about the last 22 or 23 years.
	I now live in West London.
	Yeah, but I like the Northern Irish accent.
	You're a man.
	You're a man, Ruben.
	Well, that's how I get referred to sometimes.
	Is it?
	That's good, it's good.
	I'm really into regional accents.
	I think it's really... I had this great conversation in Waitrose the other day with this woman.
	Um, who serves me now and again, and I said, I've suddenly realised why I like you so much.
	You've got a Brummie accent, haven't you?
	He said, oh, I have?
	Oh?
	I didn't think I'd get a job working in White Rose!
	Um, actually that's probably more black country.
	My accents aren't perfect.
	But anyway, it was great hearing it because it reminded me of my childhood.
	And I don't know what it is about the Northern Irish accent, but I just, I like it.
	So Reuben, tell me about why are you doing the Psalms?
	What's your feel of expertise?
	What's your thing?
	Well, I'm a minister in the International Presbyterian Church here in West London and I've been in ministry for I don't know, I was ordained I think about 17 years ago and I was contacted by a mutual friend and he suggested I had a chat with you about this and I'm particularly I'm fond of the psalms, and so you... Good!
	You suggested this one, so... Yeah, yeah!
	I gave you a range, and I gave you a number, because as you know, I only do psalms that I know by heart.
	So I learn the psalms, and then I do a podcast on them.
	So when I invite people to do psalms with me, they can only do the ones that I know, rather than Because I think you wanted to do Psalm 4, didn't you?
	Maybe.
	4 or 5.
	Before we go on to Psalm 110, which is an absolute cracker.
	I'm really excited.
	It rocks, doesn't it?
	What is it about the Presbyterians and the Psalms?
	You seem to be particularly keen on the Psalms, the Presbyterians.
	There's no doubt that that's the case.
	I should say, however, that I am a fairly recent convert to the Presbyterian Church.
	I, until about a year ago, Okay, right.
	ministering in an independent church that was baptistic in the way that it did things.
	But there is a rich stream in the Presbyterian tradition that is really strongly wedded to the Psalms.
	In fact, one expression of Presbyterianism only sings Psalms and sings them unaccompanied.
	Okay, right.
	I wonder where that came from?
	It comes from a commitment to wanting to fill your mouth and your heart with God's Word rather than any extraneous intrusions.
	Devilish organ music!
	Or guitars!
	Drum guitars!
	Oh, for sure!
	I have to say, I love all the tiny differences between the different branches of the What's the word?
	It's not branches of the church.
	What would you call it?
	The different denominations, the different... You can always call them factions.
	Yeah, denominations.
	That's a nice way.
	But it is factions too.
	Yeah, like I, as I say, I'm not the man to talk to about the origins of all of these things.
	I spent last year studying a master's and did it through a Presbyterian institution in Northern Ireland, although I did it at a distance, and I'm really in the shallows when it comes to the history of the denominational differences.
	Well, the thing I notice, I've been dipping my toes in the waters of various denominations of the church.
	I'm writing a book, which has been taking me ages to do, called White Pill, about my journey through Christianity.
	And one of the things I'm really glad about is that I didn't try and rush it because actually I'm learning stuff.
	Which is going to make it a much, much better book.
	And one of the things I'm going to say in the book is that I don't think it matters that much which denomination you eventually plump for.
	I think they've all got their strengths and their weaknesses.
	But the thing that I found very, very good about both Presbyterianism and the Baptist churches, in my limited experience, is that they seem to be really, really keen on Scripture, on the Bible, on the actual text, and they look into it closely, which seems to me to be A good thing rather than a bad thing.
	I mean, I've loved my experience of getting to know the Psalms and inhabiting them, which you do by learning them.
	They become part of you.
	Well, I would encourage you to hold off a little longer on that pursuit then, James, because you might get to the point where you realise that those distinctions and differences are important because of the Scriptures and what they say.
	Are you talking about Sola Scritura?
	No, I'm talking about the fact that in the history of the church the distinctions and differences that people held and the commitments that They wanted to stand for.
	They argued them from the Bible, but they really mattered to them.
	I mean, the rich history of all that went on in the 1600s around the Westminster Assembly is essentially a whole, I was going to say festival, but it definitely wasn't a festival.
	But it was years and years of reflection on the scriptures as it related to ecclesiastical matters.
	So the people that were at the Westminster Assembly wouldn't have said it doesn't really matter what denomination you belong to?
	Yeah, I think I'm probably, I love the fact that you disagree with me there, because that addresses the sort of the polite point I made, which is that they all have their strengths and weaknesses.
	I mean, look, if I wanted to be me in Killer James mode, I could easily trash various, you know, I mean, for example, I have Evangelical Friends, whose kind of charismatic, Holy Spirit filled religion.
	The Christianity I love but they couldn't be more wrong on Israel on on on physical Israel.
	I mean, they're absolutely they They're so wrong.
	It's kind of embarrassing and I'm dreading talking to one of them in case in case they're kind of wrongness creeps into in India, I mean if I I would have to cancel the podcast if I if I had them sort of So so yeah, I'm not I'm not So, I'm agreeing with you, but disagreeing with you, if you see what I mean.
	I totally agree, Ruben, that... that, yeah.
	I mean, we can go into... I don't want to have a go at the Catholics either, because I love the Catholics, but, you know, I mean, Constantine didn't really convert on his deathbed, I don't think, and I think he did incorporate a lot of the old religions into... Anyway, we won't go there now.
	Let's...
	You've made me naughty, Reuben.
	I didn't mean to do that.
	Should we talk about Psalm 110?
	Now, the version I've been using, the one in my head, is the Coverdale translation, which I tend to say I prefer to the KJV version.
	I don't know what versions you use in your particular church.
	Probably a modern one, is it?
	Or what?
	Yeah, a more modern translation.
	The English Standard Version is the one that we have, although I've had my dicks at Dominus.
	Is that your translation?
	The Coverdale?
	Yeah, yeah.
	I've had that open as I've been looking at this, so I'm aware of what you'll be referring to.
	Well, I mean, Karl Rubin, you've got to admit that the majesty of the Coverdell translation... No, don't.
	The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand until I make thine enemies my... thy footstool.
	My footstool, is it?
	I've got it wrong.
	Thy.
	Thy footstool.
	Great start, though, isn't it?
	I mean, it's just like...
	Now, who do you reckon is... This is a prophetic psalm, isn't it?
	Yes.
	One of the great prophetic psalms.
	Yes.
	So, it's the most quoted psalm in the New Testament.
	You probably know that.
	And it's really speaking about the authority and the ongoing rule of God's King.
	Matthew Henry, the great commentator, said, some have called this psalm David's Creed.
	Almost all the articles of the Christian faith have been found in it.
	That's Henry's quote.
	It really is a beast in the Psalter.
	In order, perhaps more than any other psalm, in order to work out the speaker and the subject, we need to take the superscription particularly seriously.
	So, of David, a psalm.
	There is no break in the original Hebrew between the superscription and the first line.
	In modern translations, one of the things that I'm quite sure would irk you significantly, James, is when you hear somebody reading and they read the little headings that the modern translators have put in.
	Those are additions or summaries.
	They're not inspired.
	However, in the Psalms, the superscriptions are inspired and therefore when you read a psalm that says, you know, for the choir master a tune of the Shemineth or something like that, that is actually inspired by the Spirit.
	And so in this case, of David, a psalm, that superscription is really vital for helping us to understand speaker and subject.
	Right, okay.
	Yeah, do you know what?
	I hadn't paid any attention to the... well, okay, I glanced through the superscriptions.
	I hadn't realized that they had that much significance.
	So, are they accurate?
	How many of the Psalms were written by David?
	Oh, I don't know.
	I don't know the number.
	I mean, loads.
	But quite a few.
	Yeah, particularly.
	So it's interesting that in Book 5, where Psalm 110 is, there are fewer because, well, he is the teacher in Book 5, and particularly in Psalm 110, 108, 109 and 110.
	He is leading reflection on the experience of exile, I think.
	And so when you get to Psalm 72, it says that the prayers of David, son of Jesse have ended.
	But that's an editorial thing in terms of the way that the Psalter was then put together later.
	Right, okay.
	So we've got the great intro.
	What's it all about?
	What's happening here?
	Well, as I say, it is a psalm about the authority and the ongoing rule of God's King.
	We can't be exactly sure of the first audience, but it's probably The announcement of vindication following Psalm 109.
	Psalm 109 speaks of there's a traitor, there's one who betrays David and I think this follows then hot on the heels of that to say prophetically looking ahead there is one who will come in the future who will be David's Lord and when we then read this Psalm in light of the New Testament We get to the Gospels.
	Jesus takes on his own lips who that man is.
	That man is him.
	Jesus says, Matthew 22, 44 and 45.
	So in the context of Matthew 22, verse 43, the Pharisees, they don't believe that Jesus was God's Christ.
	They don't believe that he's the Messiah, God's King.
	And they are asked by Jesus whose son the Christ will be.
	And they say the son of David.
	And Jesus then takes them directly to Psalm 110, verse 1.
	And in Matthew 22, 43, he says, how then, in the King James, how then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, the Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
	If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
	So it's David who is speaking and David the King is speaking.
	And Mark tells us in Mark 12, 36, that he is speaking by the spirit.
	David the King speaking about his Lord, one who is greater than him, so he can't be his son, he can't be his descendant, but he is, as the hymn writer said, he is David's greater son, the Lord Jesus.
	Okay.
	I didn't know, so thanks for telling me this, I didn't know what's the most quoted psalm in the New Testament.
	In fact, it's one of my great pleasures.
	I read the Gospels last year and I'm coming around to my second time and now that I've got about 25 Psalms up my sleeve.
	I read the Gospels and it's really interesting because they don't say, they don't tell you when Jesus is quoting the Psalms.
	He doesn't say, oh by the way a Psalm so-and-so says.
	It's just dropped in there and it adds an extra dimension when you know that Jesus is quoting the Psalms.
	Oh yeah!
	A Psalm that you know.
	Well, I mean That's one of the great things about scripture memorization and particularly the Psalms and particularly the Old Testament there are, you know, I suppose you're on this journey.
	You mentioned earlier in the book that you're wanting to write as you've sort of kind of, I don't know, woken up to Christian things.
	As you discover more and more of the richness of scripture and how the two testaments relate and so on, it is a wonderful thing.
	It's a hugely thrilling thing.
	You think, oh, I've heard that before.
	Hang on a second, let me go back.
	And the context then, it enriches the whole experience.
	It definitely does.
	And also for me, I often say this, it's sort of the fact that Jesus quotes the Psalms, Seems to me the ultimate validation because Jesus is the Son of God and if he's quoting the Psalms that must mean the Psalms are kosher.
	The Psalms are just absolutely rock solid.
	You can trust the Psalms because Jesus trusts the Psalms.
	That's true of the whole Old Testament in general.
	So one of the things that That we stand on in terms of biblical interpretation is the fact that Jesus upheld the Old Testament.
	Jesus quoted the Old Testament.
	He'll often say, as it is written in Moses or in the Law of Moses, it was written.
	And that's him validating, as it were, what was written in the Old Testament.
	Which is important, I think, because I think it deals with that, maybe heresy is too strong a word, but it's something you hear Quite often from a certain kind of Christian which is that I don't like the Old Testament.
	It's it's not you know, the God is I can't identify with that God.
	He's not etc.
	Etc.
	And you think well, sorry mate, but this is the deal.
	It's not it's not like this optional extra that you can choose to like if you're of that inclination.
	Yeah, and we're going to come to precisely that a little bit later in Psalm 110.
	The two gods theory, you know, the bad god of the Old Testament and the nice, kindly, gentle Jesus of the New, well it's a nonsense, particularly when you get to the book of Revelation.
	Where did that come from, the two gods theory?
	Well, I don't know the origin of it, but I suspect that it comes from a sentimentalism that is inherent in quite a large trance of contemporary Christianity.
	Yes, well that's definitely the case, which I would suspect is part of Satan's war on Christianity.
	He's infiltrated it in any number of ways and one of his forms of infiltration is this You know, this idea that, well, I heard it summed up by another Presbyterian guest as, Jesus is your girlfriend, kind of Christian.
	Jesus is my girlfriend.
	That's right, yeah.
	Or worse, Jesus is my boyfriend.
	I mean, that's the version of that insult that I have heard.
	Right, right, right, okay.
	So, to be clear, you see, I thought, I wasn't sure whether the Lord said unto my Lord, I wasn't sure whether the first Lord was God and the second Lord was Jesus, but that's not, so it's David talking to, who's the first Lord?
	Well, so the Lord, capital letters, is Yahweh, the Covenant God.
	And my Lord is one who is greater than David.
	So you could say it is the Father speaking to the Son.
	Oh, it is.
	So I'm right.
	It is.
	That is the deal.
	Yeah.
	OK, good.
	That's what I thought.
	John Calvin said, as he Speaking about the superscription and about this, the Lord said to my Lord, having the testimony of Christ that this psalm was penned in reference to himself, we need not apply to any other quarter for the corroboration of this statement.
	So, Christ himself says, this psalm is about me, because he picks it up so much, particularly from those verses in Matthew 22 I just mentioned.
	Right.
	So, sit thou on my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
	And then it goes, the Lord shall send the rod of thy power out of Sion.
	That's right.
	So be thou ruler, even in the midst among thine enemies.
	Correct.
	That's it.
	Right.
	Okay.
	So, so, so, so, so that's God presumably saying, right, I'm going to sort it out for you so that you can become the new king, the, you know, the boss.
	Is that right?
	Yeah, so Psalm 110 is about the Lord Jesus Christ, his authority, his heavenly ministry, and the psalm forms, as one commentator said, the basis of the apostles' teaching on the exaltation, heavenly session, and royal priesthood of Christ.
	Derek Kidner, excellent.
	Anglican, long deceased Anglican Old Testament scholar.
	And interestingly, I think if you can get your hands on his commentaries on the Psalms, they'll be tremendously edifying for you.
	They're very brief and helpful.
	Derek Kidner.
	Oh, okay.
	I have been looking for some tips on which commentaries to get.
	Problem is, people mention them and I fail to write them down, which is jolly annoying, but typical of me.
	So I think you can break the psalm into two, you could say it's two oracles where the Lord, capital letters LORD, Yahweh speaks directly and in some translations actually they have inverted commas.
	at 1 and 4.
	So if you notice verse 1, the Lord said unto my Lord, verse 4, the Lord swear and will not repent.
	But you could also break it up into three sections that describe different elements of the Messiah's ministry.
	So 1 to 3, his ministry as King.
	Verse 4, his ministry as priest.
	And verses 5 to 7, His role as warrior, you could say.
	So, that might be a helpful way to kind of go through if we think about it in those sections.
	Okay, yeah.
	It does get pretty brutal towards the end.
	Yeah.
	But it's got a calming final line which we'll come to.
	So, okay.
	So, the first bit is what?
	He's coming as priest?
	So, Christ the King, you could say.
	One to three, is Christ the King reigning?
	So verse one, the Lord says to my Lord, it is the oracle of Yahweh to my Lord, David's Lord, the one who is greater than David, Yahweh, the covenant God of Israel.
	And these are his words to David's Lord, his Adonai.
	And that word Adonai would be used in addressing one who is greater than the speaker.
	And the thing that we're really supposed to get, I think, from that first line, this great introductory line, is the shock.
	The king was the highest earthly ruler.
	And here he is acknowledging that there is someone above him.
	There is one who is greater than the king.
	And so then he says, sit thou at my right hand.
	This one is literally God's right hand man.
	The designation of right hand is very, very important.
	As we understand this, because it is, well on the one hand it was a means of honour in the ancient world and to occupy a seat at the King's right hand was more than mere honour, it was seen to share in his rule.
	So here is one who is sharing in the rule of the Covenant God.
	It signifies, you could say, participation in his royal position.
	And this authority and power then is played out in the rest of the psalm, but Like we just said a moment ago, it will take the New Testament for us to understand this fully.
	And that goes back also, I think, to the problem with our two gods theology, because what we have here is the Old Testament God, who we will see as a warrior and as a judge, but then Gentle Jesus making mild takes this up on his own lips and says, that was referring to me.
	So, you know, Jesus is saying, I'm not gentle Jesus making mild.
	So can we be done with this sentimental view of me, please?
	Anyway.
	Yeah.
	So the Lord, the Lord is greater than David.
	Acts 2.34 says, for David did not ascend into the heavens.
	You know, he's saying it wasn't David that went up there in the ascension.
	The Lord is greater than the angels who are ministering spirits, Hebrews 1.
	To what angel did God say, sit at my right hand?
	So this supremacy, this greatness is developed in the New Testament and he was exalted as king precisely because he was rejected by men.
	So when you get to Acts chapter 5, Peter and the apostles, Peter will say, this Jesus whom you killed, God exalted and seated at his right hand.
	And then the famous hymn of Christ in Philippians 2, the apostle Paul says it is because the son of God embraced the humiliation of his incarnation on the cross because he did not think equality with God a thing to be grasped, but humbled himself to the lowest point, the lowest point being but humbled himself to the lowest point, the lowest point being crucifixion under the wrath of Paul says therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, the name Lord.
	So that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
	So So the line about even in the midst among thine enemies, that's basically setting up the terms.
	You're going to be ruler, but it's going to be among a kind of fairly fractious crowd.
	A lot of people are not going to be on your side.
	Right, right.
	We'll come to that in a second when we think about the nature of this kingly reign.
	You see, so the priestly work, which he will develop in verse four, we'll come to that in a second, the ministry of intercession, We're talking here, Jesus is interceding for us in heaven, even now.
	All of that is connected to this place at the Father's right hand.
	The Apostle Paul would say in Romans 8, Christ who is at the right hand of God intercedes for us.
	Hebrews 10, the finished nature of Christ's priestly work is represented by a sitting down at the right hand of God.
	So, Christ is reigning as king.
	Pause you there.
	The right hand thing.
	There's quite a lot of that, isn't there?
	Isn't there a scene where some of the disciples say, can we get to sit at your right hand, Jesus?
	Yes.
	Am I misremembering?
	No, that's right.
	So there's this astonishing point in the Gospels where Jesus is talking about his death.
	He's saying, what it means for me to be the Christ is that I will have to go to the cross and suffer, die the most ignominious death.
	The most disgusting death of crucifixion and they say, can one of us sit at your right and one of us at your left in glory?
	And you know, that is expressed as a sort of really crass misunderstanding of all that's going on.
	It is an embarrassing... I remember reading that scene and feeling really quite embarrassed for the disciples that asked this question.
	No, that's true.
	It's a bit like going up to Mick Jagger and saying, can I have, you know, not knowing him and being vaguely in his entourage and sort of wanting to kind of come on his special Private Jet and stuff.
	Not that I'm comparing.
	Mick Jagger is, I think, of the Devil's Party, rather.
	So maybe that's an inept comparison.
	I don't think Mick Jagger has anything of Christ within him.
	And he does have much of the other.
	But nevertheless, it's a weird scene.
	And again, what about the two thieves who are being crucified next to Jesus?
	Does the issue of right hand come up there as well?
	The promise is to be with Christ, so today you will be with me in paradise, he says to the repentant thief.
	But the interesting thing about that, it's funny you mentioned the embarrassment you sense when you read about the disciples responding in that way.
	One of the things that I think the gospel narrative is supposed to do is is help us to identify with their cluelessness and their hard-heartedness and their foolishness.
	And I read that and I think, oh, that's embarrassing.
	And then I think if I'd been there, I'd probably been exactly the same.
	I'd have got caught up in the same desire for glory.
	But also Ruben, I think it's much easier to forgive them with hindsight, given that we know that all the disciples Pretty much came to very sticky ends, didn't they?
	Did any of them not die horribly?
	I don't think so, no.
	Some of them were sawn in half, Axe tells us.
	This is one of the great things about You know, the credibility of the Christian faith.
	Here are men who are completely clueless, self-interested and not really getting what's going on.
	And yet, when they saw the resurrected Christ and when he returned and when the Spirit came, they all gave their lives for this cause.
	You know, it wasn't something that they just made up.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly.
	Right, so off to that fantastic digression.
	So Christ is reigning now as King.
	He's ministering on our behalf as Priest-King.
	He's at the Father's right hand.
	But the nature of this kingly reign then gets unpacked a bit.
	So the first thing we see is obviously it's powerful.
	Sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
	The King sits.
	That seatedness is a position of power.
	It's the seat of government, cosmic government.
	And the footstool here is not something you pop your feet up on in the evening at the end of a particularly taxing day.
	Rather, the word carries the sense of being trampled underfoot.
	This is the end of those who oppose the Messiah.
	At the end of the great battle of history between God and his enemies, verse 2, the rod of thy power, the scepter of Christ's rule, will be given It is given to Christ to execute his rule and you mentioned earlier on about why do people think that way?
	I don't like that kind of vision of the Old Testament God and you say well that's kind of, that's part of the deal mate.
	The reality is Christ's rule isn't up for grabs either.
	It's not as if he is Lord of our lives or our country if we decide to make him this.
	It's not like his rule is legitimate for you if you believe it.
	God's King, the Lord Jesus, is Lord and we can fight that Lordship and be broken by it.
	That's the footstool idea.
	That's more graphic at the end.
	Or we can submit to it in humility and obedience and we can worship him.
	Yeah, which is quite, I have to say, quite comforting for those of us who are Christians because it kind of makes you feel like you've backed the right team.
	Yeah, that's one way to put it.
	So the next thing to notice though is the second bit of verse 2 where despite this power and this really clear statement of his power and authority, Christ's reign is also opposed.
	It's opposed.
	Yahweh exalts his Son to the highest place.
	Verse 1 acknowledges the fact that there are enemies.
	And then verse 2, there is no mistake that this rule operates in the midst of these enemies.
	Rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
	This echoes, I think, Psalm 2.
	I believe you've had somebody on talking about Psalm 2, where the Lord's anointed is surrounded by people who plot and surrounded by the kings of the earth who collude with the ruling powers against him.
	Let's burst his bonds.
	Let's stand up against the authority of this anointed one.
	It isn't a detached rule.
	It's not a rule that's universally received.
	The context of opposition is very clear.
	Yeah, you're right.
	It is a companion piece, isn't it, to some, too.
	They work, they echo one another.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So, in the day of thy power shall the people offer thee freewill offerings with unholy worship.
	And then there's the next line, which I hope you're going to explain to me.
	The dew of thy birth is of the womb of the morning.
	Well, so yeah, we'll come to that in a second.
	I think the opposition is an important one.
	What that is doing is exposing The Human Heart, the reality that there are enemies of Christ in the world.
	Now you and I obviously are looking out and saying, yes we can see that, but we also recognise that that is the natural inclination of the Human Heart.
	The Human Heart always inclines towards autonomy, to rejecting God's rule, to wanting to be in charge of our own lives in God's world.
	We are the The subject of Invictus, you know, and this is clear when it comes to Jesus' earthly ministry.
	He came demonstrating his kingly rule.
	You know, you were talking about the Gospels.
	You get miracle after miracle after miracle demonstrating that he is coming with all divine power.
	In fact, in Mark's Gospel, the beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
	So again, with your Old Testament The Old Testament kind of context there, Jesus the Christ, that's a messianic kingly title.
	The Son of God, the Son of God is an Old Testament title for the King.
	So what you've got there is the beginning of the good news about Jesus the King, the King.
	So Mark is setting up, he has a very strong kingly theme throughout his gospel, but that That kingship is stated, it is demonstrated in the miracles, but then of course he's rejected, he's despised, he's opposed.
	And the truth is, it's no different today with Christ's ongoing rule through the church.
	The opposition that Christians face today should be no surprise because Christ has always had enemies.
	As it was for him, so it is for his followers.
	When he tells us, take up your cross daily, Luke says, and follow me, he is talking there about About a life of devotion to him that is characterised by death because we're going to be opposed, we're going to be rejected.
	But then we get to verse 3 and so that's the kind of, the opposition, the context of opposition is then developed in verse 3 where ruling from Zion, well so if his kingship is powerful Opposed, then it's also spiritual.
	That's what verse 3 I think is getting at here.
	So, ruling from Zion has already pointed us in this direction.
	Zion, Israel, Jerusalem is the focus of God's promises.
	But this becomes clearer in this somewhat tricky verse 3.
	So, one ancient commentator describes verse 3 as, the original is concise and obscure.
	So when you come to interpret or do your work on the text, that's not what you want the commentator to tell you.
	No.
	In the day of thy power shall thy people offer themselves willingly with unholy worship.
	The day of power is different from the day of wrath mentioned in verse 5.
	The day of Christ's power is the bit before the enemies become a footstool.
	So when Christ's rule is executed through the joyful obedience of His people, those who are willing, people offer themselves willingly, those who are willing as opposed to the unwilling enemies who stand against Him.
	And this is about the role of the Church.
	This is about Christ ruling by His Spirit through an army of people whose hearts have been transformed from enemies to friends.
	He says in John's Gospel, I no longer call you servants but friends.
	But of course the image in the New Testament is friend, servant, ambassador, that kind of thing.
	And so this is the picture.
	Martin Luther on this verse said, We Christians are not able to subdue the devil and the world by means of physical power or weapons.
	Rather, we are to fight for Christ by suffering, by faith and by the preaching of God's Word.
	And that is the kind of the mandate of this willing crowd who have been gathered to offer unholy worship.
	And again, the language of lives that are marked by unholy worship, or in the authorised version it is, "in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning," "in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the Now, the next bit is tricky.
	In the authorised it's in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning thou hast the Jew of thy youth.
	In this case the womb of the morning is birthing the holy lives and the Jew of thy youth follows.
	So this would suggest interpreting the Jew in the way it is used elsewhere in the Bible as a symbol of blessing.
	Jew in the Bible is often a symbol of blessing so it's associated with manna in Exodus 16.
	And Moses will pray that his words are like Jew.
	Deuteronomy 32 verse 2.
	In that sense, Jew represents refreshment and blessing and in this context this is what will follow those who have given their lives willingly to the Lord.
	That's one particular direction we could take it.
	Although the Coverdale translation, that young man come to thee as Jew from the womb of the morning, here The young men who come to Christ are likened to the Jew of the morning.
	It is them themselves, so the sense could be more about the growth of the kingdom.
	One commentator says... Well, the version I've got is, the Jew of thy birth is of the womb of the morning.
	That's in my coverdale, sort of, but maybe... Oh, okay, I see, okay.
	Yeah.
	I mean, I sort of quite like the fact that one doesn't really understand.
	Right, right.
	It's a lovely phrase.
	Well, I'm very fond in these situations of saying it's probably both.
	You know, so if you think about it, Jew represents refreshment and blessing elsewhere in the Bible.
	Well, this is about the refreshment and blessing that will come through the church to the world in the midst of the enemies of the gospel.
	But it is also possible because the promise of the gospel is that, well the promise of Christ's kingdom is that the gospel will triumph, that the Lamb will win, that the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea, and so it is possible that the converts will be as numerous as the drops of the morning dew.
	So both are possible.
	Okay.
	Now we're coming to, well actually I say it's a cool bit but there's so many cool bits in this psalm.
	I love this.
	So in my version it's the Lord swear and will not repent thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
	Now what is the order of Melchizedek?
	Well, so this is a transition now to the second oracle, beginning verse four, or then the second section where we have Christ as priest and we see him mediating.
	So, people talk about that shadowy figure, Melchizedek.
	It is how the Lord speaks here that is striking.
	He has made an oath.
	He hath sworn.
	And we're told that this means he won't go back on his word, he won't repent.
	Perhaps that is a reference to the promise that was made to Eli.
	Sorry, the promise that was withdrawn from Eli in 1 Samuel chapter 2.
	As opposed to him, this priest can be trusted.
	But also the promise is necessary because the psalmist has just emphasised that the Messiah is king and now he is saying that he's a priest.
	So he is swearing here, he's putting his word on something that is quite an unusual thing because the ancient Jew would have known that the office of priest and the office of king don't go together.
	So having emphasised his kingship he now says you're a priest.
	And they'd be reading this and thinking, hang on a second, which is why the Lord is swearing, the Lord is putting his word on this.
	God created his people, he instituted the priesthood to be descended from Moses' brother Aaron in the tribe of Levi.
	And that's why the Levites are priests.
	Priests were appointed on the basis of their birth or their tribe, but kings were taken from a different order.
	The rules were to be distinct.
	The king ruled, the priest was involved with sacrifices and temple business.
	And there were severe penalties for those who tried to transgress those boundaries, as King Uzziah found out when he tried to offer incense to the Lord by entering the temple where only priests could go.
	So God judged him.
	He gave him leprosy, 2 Chronicles 26.
	No king could be a priest.
	No priest could be a king, except for our old friend here, the shadowy figure of Melchizedek.
	Now, he appears three times in the Bible.
	Historically, he appears in Genesis 14, verses 18 to 20.
	Prophetically, he appears here in Psalm 110, where you will be a priest like Melchizedek.
	And then you could say, doctrinally, as in theologically, we meet him in the book of Hebrews, Hebrews 5, Hebrews 6, Hebrews 7, he's mentioned there.
	And Melchizedek is important because his designation in Genesis is both the King of Salem but also the priest of God Most High.
	I think that is the emphasis that is being pressed here.
	There are only three verses in Genesis 14.
	Melchizedek blessed Abraham and received Abraham's tithe.
	So in blessing him, he is superior.
	He has this ability to bless.
	And in taking the tithe, he is mediating.
	That's what's happening.
	Standing on the Godward side of Abraham.
	So in short, he is both a king and a priest.
	And the writer to the Hebrews then picks up on this and applies that same dual office to the Lord Jesus.
	So on the authority of God's oath of Psalm 110, the writer to the Hebrews says in Hebrews 5 20, Jesus has become a high priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.
	He is the priest king in the order of, that is just like Melchizedek.
	He is the only one who rules and mediates at the same time.
	But I'm feeling frustrated here.
	I'm sorry James, I lost you there.
	I'm feeling frustrated here because here's this name which is a big deal clearly because Jesus is being made a priest after the order of Melchizedek and yet you're telling me that this name only appears three times in the Bible.
	I know that lots of Christians tend to be very, very big on how if it's not in the Bible it doesn't count.
	So they rule out the book of Enoch because of this decision that was made when?
	Was it in the third century?
	Something like that?
	So there are some people who think that you shouldn't look at stuff that's not in the Bible because it's kind of...
	Yeah, it's dodgy in some way.
	But I'm thinking, well, hang on a second.
	Here's this bit of information which is being chucked at us.
	Doesn't it invite one to do further research in other books or elsewhere?
	I mean, is that it?
	Is that all we know about McKissack?
	All we're allowed to know about him?
	Doesn't it pique your curiosity?
	Well, yeah, I mean, it piques one's curiosity, but I think it's not as if we don't have sufficient information.
	The fact that it is, I mean, if it was stated in one verse in the Bible, it's still binding, you know, it has Holy Spirit inspired authority.
	And I think that thread that goes to the very beginning comes through Psalm 110 and then gets interpreted and developed more fully in the book of Hebrews.
	There's plenty there for us to understand, especially when the point about what he's saying here in Psalm 110 that then gets developed further in Hebrews is to do with this dual office of King-Priest.
	And that much is clear.
	So, if he blessed Abraham, that means he predates the tribes of Israel.
	I mean, this is going way, way back.
	Yeah, Genesis 14.
	Well, what's going on in that world?
	I mean, just crazy stuff that we don't know about.
	Anyway, well, I'm curious.
	I'm curious.
	I'm curious about that line.
	What is the Order of Melchizedek?
	Is it... It is in the likeness of.
	So it is this jewel of us.
	Melchizedek is the king of Salem.
	Jerusalem, which Salem means peace, he is the king of peace.
	Okay.
	But he is also the priest of God Most High and therefore the point that the psalmist is picking up, he's saying the one person in history, in biblical history, who has been a king and a priest, you will be in the likeness of that one.
	Okay.
	Because your rule and your mediation are going to go together.
	You're the one who rules and mediates at the same time.
	Now this is the point, Ruben, where I've got to mention that thing I told you about the other day.
	You didn't know about.
	And why would you?
	But the Order of Melchizedek has been plagiarized is perhaps too kind a word.
	It's been stolen.
	And inverted by the forces of darkness or rather their representatives on Earth.
	And the Order of Melchizedek is according, anyway, according to the podcast I've done with people who make a study of the kind of the Illuminati and particularly the sort of the Church of Satan and all the different, the kind of satanic associations of the people who run this world.
	And apparently, I don't know how one verifies this, but the Order of Melchizedek is this satanic female order to which lots of people that you've heard of belong, but only women.
	So the dress code of the Order of Melchizedek is bizarrely purple, So when you see a woman that appears in the newspapers a lot wearing purple and pearls, your antennae should at the very least be twitching.
	So we're talking about the Queen, the late Queen.
	We're talking about Oprah Winfrey.
	We're definitely talking about Hillary Clinton.
	We're talking about, I should think most first ladies actually, if you Google, do a Google search on women wearing purple with pearls, and you'll even find one of Margaret Thatcher by the way, which I was quite surprised by.
	But nobody, I mean you and I know, Anyone who's studied the Bible, anyone who's studied imperial history, imperial Rome, knows that purple has a very specific significance.
	It's the color of... It's imperial purple.
	It's the color of kingship.
	It's the color of power.
	Presumably because that color was quite hard to get hold of, wasn't it?
	The dye that he was used to it was quite elusive.
	Apparently.
	Is it possible...
	Carry on.
	Is it possible that the colour purple is associated with imperial or regal dress and pearls are similarly a very traditional and kind of classy piece of jewellery and because rulers
	Our late Queen and others have dressed like that.
	It has become something that others have wanted to imitate.
	That's quite a normie take, Ruben.
	So, I wanted to give you a normie take because, you know... Because you feel uncomfortable?
	No!
	No, I'm... Look, we'll come to the end of Sam 110 and, you know... Oh yeah, it's great.
	The reality is that...
	Since Covid I have become increasingly sympathetic to any of these particular perspectives on things and I don't know why Christians in particular tend to be so skittish about Some of this stuff, particularly when in one John we're told that the whole world lies under the influence of the evil one.
	So as Christians we should be able to recognise that there are all kinds of things that are going on that we don't know and we don't understand that are under Satan's sway.
	It's far too easy.
	I'm probably more frustrated than anybody now with the idea that people will just say, oh, that conspiracy theory or something of that nature, because that's just a bit too cheap.
	Yeah.
	Here's where I am, and this has been the result of four years journey so far.
	I would say that my journey down the rabbit hole pretty much coincided with my journey into Christianity.
	And I think that it's something that a lot of people have experienced.
	I first noticed it.
	on the on the marches on the marches where we were what we were marching against we were marching against the the compulsory or semi-compulsory vaccines that aren't vaccines we were marching against lockdowns but I noticed on these marches there were quite a lot of people who were Overtly Christian, you know, they were carrying banners with the Virgin Mary on it or or whatever and they were talking about it It was quite interesting how much?
	Christianity cropped up and I think that For a lot of us Having the scales fall about fall from our eyes and and to see the true darkness and evil of this world I mean, you know, you've got People poisoning us in our skies.
	People poisoning us through the medical system, which we've been tricked into thinking is there to save us.
	People being poisoned through the food they eat, the water they drink.
	Stuff that's completely unnecessary, or actually poisonous, being added to water deliberately and being sold as a health benefit.
	You know, fluoride I'm thinking of.
	And on and on and on it goes.
	And you're thinking, Once the evidence accumulates to the point where you think it's everywhere, you then start asking questions like, but what kind of people would be capable of this?
	And then you go to the Bible, And, you know, you read Ephesians 6 and, you know, we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.
	And you realise that it's all written there.
	It's all in this book that we've kind of shunted to one side in our hotel bedroom when it's been in the provided by the Gideons next to us you know the the the the stuff that we've we've learned in Christ who studied in in Scripture classes at school I did anyway and then but thought at the time yeah it's just one book among many and then you go back to the Bible and you realize the Bible it's the instruction manual It tells you it's a history.
	It tells you it's your defense against dark arts.
	It tells you what's going on.
	It's an explainer, isn't it?
	And so, there's a saying among us kind of crazy conspiracy theorists who are right about everything, which is that signs and symbols will be their undoing because the forces of darkness, they really are into their symbolism.
	They love their gematria.
	They love their Their gestures, you know, the one eye and so on.
	They love their codes.
	And they love their dress codes.
	And they love things like the fact that, yeah, I can be the first lady or the first man pretending to be a first lady in the case of at least Michelle, Michael Obama and probably others.
	They're fairly in your face because no one, I don't think anyone really, any woman in their right mind would want to wear that shade of purple with pearls unless they were sending out major, major signals of their occult affiliations.
	So I'm buying the Order of Melchizedek, that it's not a kind of conspiracy theory, that it's real.
	I mean, you're at the deep end of the pillow, James, aren't you?
	I am!
	I'll tell you what, I so am!
	Which is why I need the Psalms to protect me, so bringing it back now after is forever, after the Order of Melchizedek.
	So he's a priest at this stage and he's about to get... I don't like to quote Quentin Tarantino films because actually I think Quentin Tarantino is is is evil and that his films are evil it took me a time to realize that so I was about to quote get get medieval on on their ass but actually the Lord upon thy right hand
	This is the next line, isn't it?
	The Lord upon thy right hand shall wound even kings in the day of his wrath.
	That's going to be good, isn't it?
	I mean, it is, but just one last thing to say because I think it's important to To kind of emphasize the practical significance of this mediator.
	If we have a king who has all power and authority and this king is coming to punish his enemies as you've just said.
	And he will do that on the basis of truth, on the basis of justice and complete fairness.
	He also provides the mediation needed to bring those who should be punished into the presence of a holy God.
	And he can do this because his sacrifice was superior and his atonement was sufficient and his mediation is unending.
	That's the significance of the way the book of Hebrews develops much of what it meant for Jesus to be the Melchizedekian priest.
	Because, again, going back to The point about the disciples and their cluelessness in the Gospels, when we see ourselves in that sort of sinful, hard-hearted cluelessness, we recognise that we also are those who have stood against the Lord and sought to live our lives on our terms and therefore we're the ones who need the mediator.
	We need the one who has offered himself in our place.
	And that's where the security comes from, actually, as we as we look ahead, because if we are outside of that priest, if we don't have a priest, J.C. Ryle, the bishop from a different generation, said any religion without a priest is a poor, unhappy, useless thing. said any religion without a priest is a poor, unhappy, That's because if we don't have somebody who mediates for us as sinful people, if we don't have a mediator, then five to seven is terrifying.
	It's terrifying.
	And so the enthronement of the king and the work of the priest are a precursor to the global conquest.
	Which is Christ the warrior and here he is judging in five to seven.
	Well hang on a second, you've prompted a thought in my head.
	I thought that sort of low church denominations didn't like having priests at all.
	They thought they were an encumbrance.
	That everyone was their own kind of direct access to the Bible and that priests were kind of a nuisance.
	Is that not the case?
	Well, when I say we all need a priest, what I mean is we all need Christ the priest, the one in the line of Melchizedek.
	So there is a sense in which when you are in Christ, it's what they call the doctrine of the priesthood of all believers.
	Now, I should say that low church ecclesiology, low church churchmanship has, I think, overplayed that idea to the degree that They do away with the idea of ordained clergy or ordained ministers or any of that kind of thing.
	And that's, I think, problematic in its own way.
	But the idea that there is a special mediatorial role given to a human on earth, that's done away with in the priestly ministry of Christ.
	Right.
	Okay.
	I would say though, a minister has, there's a sense in which the minister functions in a priestly, in a role that is analogous to the priest in that, you know, the minister ministers the means of grace to the church, but he doesn't do that as, with any sort of special direct access.
	I've been fantasizing about it.
	We've just lost our local vicar.
	He was dreadful.
	Rubbish.
	We're all glad.
	I'm talking about the village churches.
	We've got several churches and the vicar goes round from church to church.
	and the vicar goes round from church to church and stuff.
	And I was telling my friend Sophie, because she was suggesting, "Should we put you up, James?" And I was saying, I would be awesome.
	I would be the best priest you could ever get.
	But they'll never have me because I'd have to go to those ghastly colleges where they tell you about wokery and stuff.
	They're not interested in the Bible, are they?
	They just teach you to be a kind of...
	Wet dishcloth.
	It would be a glorious three days, James.
	Can you imagine, Reuben, how based my services would be?
	Yes, yes I can.
	I've listened to your podcast a bit so I can imagine.
	I mean we'd have at least three where we'd have a blessing service at the beginning of the hunting season, a blessing service at the end of the hunting season, probably a sort of mid-hunting season one to just kind of emphasize the importance of hunting in the kind of rural community.
	But I mean I wouldn't take any nonsense about Jesus is my girlfriend or my boyfriend and I'd be pretty You know, my sermons would not be about the Ukraine at all.
	You would not find Ukraine being mentioned once.
	Or Gaza, actually.
	It would all be about, you know, actual scripture and what Jesus said.
	But do you think that... I mean, you're a minister, is that right?
	Is that your title?
	Yeah, I'm a minister.
	You're a pastor or a minister.
	So do you have to go through, what training do you have to go through to get that?
	So I, the have to aspect of that.
	So there are lots of pastors ministering in churches up and down the country who haven't had formal theological education.
	And there is a rich thread of evangelical churches that believe that God gifts the minister and they don't need to go through theological college in order to be told that.
	That is something that the church confers on the On the individual.
	However, there's also an equally rich tradition that says theological education, training in the original languages, study of church history, a recognition of the need to develop skills of biblical exegesis, biblical theology, systematic theology, that kind of thing.
	All of those are important.
	But you're dead right.
	Many, many, many colleges have sold the pass on that.
	I think I, in fact I'd bet you any money that I know a lot more scripture better than quite a few Church of England, Church of England vicars at any rate.
	And I probably take it more seriously as well.
	Well, you certainly take it very seriously.
	I can't comment on... I mean, I'm not in the Church of England, so I couldn't possibly comment.
	No, well, I mean, yeah, I am by default being a vicar, so I don't have to make a decision on that one.
	But, so I could... Will you get involved in your local church such that you might be able to have a say on who the next vicar would be?
	Um, there are so many churches, so many, um, in the area, each with different, um, different requirements.
	I think about the only thing we're kind of agreed.
	I was talking about this to the, to the, uh, to the church, to the, uh, to the virgin the other day.
	And I was at the warden.
	I get my terms.
	It's all quite hard to understand who does what, what, and who, But he was saying, well, we're agreed on the Book of Common Prayer.
	We like the Book of Common Prayer.
	And we think it's very important that the new vicar should like farmers and understand farmers and not think they're annoying, grumpy people who shout, get off my land.
	You know, you've got to be pro-farmer.
	And I'm hoping we never, ever, ever again get a vicar who believes in intinction, which is an abomination.
	Is it?
	Why so?
	What?
	What's your theological objection to intinction?
	Because I like to drink the blood of Christ, not drink the soggy biscuit of Christ.
	As simple as that.
	I also don't like it, but I don't like it for different reasons.
	Now, what if... Give me your reason.
	I'm interested here.
	We like digressions.
	Well, I think, in the words of institution, the Lord Jesus separates the elements.
	Well, the Apostle Paul, when he picks that up in 1 Corinthians 11, he separates the elements.
	And so, intinction, as I understand it, was introduced... Actually, I don't... I can't... I would be...
	mixing stories up there.
	I can't remember, but as I understand it, Intinction was introduced as a theological misstep, so I don't... There were so many theological missteps.
	This is another theme of my book, that I have been trying to find out What is the real Christianity?
	What is Christ's real message?
	What's it really all about?
	Which bits were just invented by man?
	Which bits can we not trust?
	As you know, from studying the history of the church, there are so many heresies.
	Martianism, for example, which I think is kind of the idea that the Old Testament God is evil.
	Invented by bad people.
	People who didn't not have the interests of Christ's message at heart.
	They were trying to do the opposite.
	Or people using it for power and stuff.
	So, I'm interested in these things about, like, what you just said about the elements being separated and stuff.
	It seems to matter.
	Can I ask you, what are the categories that you are going to base How do you decide what is faithful Orthodox Christianity?
	I'm on a journey.
	I'll give you an example.
	Well, I gave it to you earlier on.
	We can trust the Psalms because Christ quoted the Psalms.
	He was familiar with them.
	And God was Jesus' dad.
	Therefore, if he's quoting the Psalms, they're going to be good.
	They're okay.
	Right.
	And also, of course, the Psalms validate Christ because they tell you he's coming and then he He lives out what the Psalms do and so you know that Christ is the Son of God.
	So it works both ways.
	Right, so the comment you made earlier which is Oh I don't want to diss the Catholics, I like the Catholics.
	That's a really complex one because, oh goodness, I obviously realise that I've introduced the topic of Catholicism with a Northern Irish accent.
	Well the thing is Ruben, bear in mind that we get people of all denominations
	Watching this podcast and I kind of don't want to I don't want to be too rude But at the same time I recognize that there are these difference I mean all my Catholic friends are always saying come to the mother church James come to the mother church I'm thinking well, you know, I like some aspects of it, but there's no way I'm gonna I'm gonna go to Rome Well, so I think underneath that though is is It helps you to get to the essence of the questions that your book needs to answer.
	So lots of the distinctions and the divisions and everything else relate to some of the same theological questions.
	The question of revelation, how does God speak?
	The question of salvation, how does God save?
	The question of who are God's people?
	And the question of what does the church exist to do?
	So you've got Bible, Jesus, Church mission and Those four areas I think probably broadly cover Most of the distinctions and differences and disagreements Yeah, yeah, where are you on them?
	Well ask the question and I'll tell you if I'll answer it It's too much of a it's too much of a rabbit hole but Yeah, now I'm not going to go there, I'm not going to go there.
	So, how are we now going to go through, in the Day of His Wrath?
	The Lord upon thy right hand shall wound even kings in the Day of His Wrath.
	The Day of His Wrath.
	Now obviously that means Charles is stuffed, isn't he?
	Among others.
	And the Danish royal family and the... They're all... They're all wrong-uns.
	I don't know.
	They're going to get slain.
	Well, so... If they're lucky.
	The thing that is very clear here is that justice will be done.
	Nobody gets away with it.
	And I think the point... The essence of the point here is to do with...
	The difference between the Lordship of Christ and the nature of human rulers.
	So, the address is to Yahweh and the Lord, His King, at His right hand, I will conquer, He will conquer all who oppose Him.
	The Lord and His King act as one here, and it seems that the throng of people willingly giving themselves, in verse 3, have faded into the background.
	The battle now belongs to the Lord, and yet it is His King, the human warrior, who is in the foreground, striking through the kings, the powers of the earth.
	And he comes in Judgment, verse 6, among the heathen.
	This need not imply severity for all, the idea of judgment here.
	There will be mercy for those who have bowed the knee.
	He will judge between people.
	Psalm 7 talks about David saying, the Lord judging the people, but appealing on the basis of God's character.
	So David says, judge the peoples on the basis of the fact that you will have mercy on me.
	The day of wrath will be also a day of grace, even among the nations who have put their faith in the Messiah.
	That's interesting, Ruben, because that goes to the heart of one of the biggest, the most discomforting aspects of Christianity, which is the exclusivity of it.
	And a lot of people who are non-Christians, or even Christians, say to me, Is this the deal?
	So what about my nice Muslim friends and my nice Hindu friends, you know, who live good lives?
	Or what about the people who just describe themselves as spiritual?
	Are they all going to just be slain and burn in hell forever?
	You're suggesting that this line gives them a degree of leeway.
	Yes and no.
	I mean, the sense is that there will be those among the heathen, among the nations, who bow the knee.
	And, you know, I'm an example of somebody who grew up in an atheistic home, would have called himself an atheist, and then I became convinced that the Lord Jesus was the king at the Lord's right hand, and that he both was sovereign and therefore had all power and authority, but he was also the one who would save us.
	He is the one who mediates for all who put their faith in him.
	And so if there's an, there's a, uh, an inclusivity to Christianity in the sense that anybody from anywhere, every tribe, tongue and nation will, uh, who, who, who repents of their sin, puts their, puts their trust in the mediating King.
	Uh, they will, they will be saved.
	They will be rescued on the last day.
	But it is exclusive in the sense that there is only one way and that's through Jesus.
	So the history of the world is that it is God's world.
	He is king over it all.
	He has sent a son into the world, a saviour who will also judge.
	And so we either go to him as saviour or we meet him as judge.
	And all are invited to salvation, but only those who come will receive it.
	Okay.
	Tell me your story about how you went from atheism to Christianity.
	Oh, so my parents... I was born right at the beginning of the Troubles and so my parents had rejected... Are you still there?
	You still there, James?
	I am, but it sounded a bit fuzzy.
	I got bored at the beginning of The Troubles.
	Yeah, and my parents had rejected the sort of nominal Christianity that they'd grown up with, and I was therefore sort of brought up in this very liberal, functionally atheistic home, and my My life was fine.
	Everything was good.
	I had a very happy upbringing.
	My father died when I was in my early twenties.
	He died very suddenly at the age I am now.
	All of a sudden I realised that my atheistic framework didn't have The ability to explain the way I felt about this.
	So if we're just bags of cells that do what they do at this temperature, when a bag of cells comes or goes, that just is what happens.
	Life is just meaningless.
	And yet, I knew that the relationship I had with him was real.
	The love I felt for him was real.
	The experience of our relationship was real.
	And there was something much more substantial than just merely Atoms firing and synapses doing what they do and so that began a kind of a bit of an exploration into the question of reality I suppose and at the same time I was also just increasingly dissatisfied with my life.
	I had plenty of things at my disposal materially.
	I had some of the things that The culture kept telling me it would make me happy and satisfy me and so on and yet I was just increasingly dissatisfied.
	and I met some Christians, they invited me along to church, and I, over the course of a number of years, really became convinced that it was true and good and beautiful and it was what I wanted.
	Did you get that?
	I did, and then there was a blank bit.
	Doesn't matter, because it will record... Your side is recording fine, it's my side which is being absolutely rubbish.
	Now, I'm always interested in how people... Because I think it's a very strange thing that we do, we Christians, that there's lots of... We live in a culture Which might have been designed, in fact it has been designed, to make being a Christian as hard and off-putting as possible.
	that we have Christianity characterised as something that's kind of passive, um, cringeworthy, um, boring, um, irrelevant, um, outdated.
	The, the, the, from every, every, the, the devil's got every angle covered and there are no obvious.
	Sorry.
	It is, it is also fair to say though, that lots of it is passive, cringeworthy, sentimental and utterly toothless.
	So that criticism is fair.
	Ah, but no, but see, Ruben, I would say that's not Christianity.
	That's not real Christianity.
	That's the religion that's accumulated around such Christianity, and the religion and customs.
	But I don't think real Christianity is anything like that.
	Oh no, of course.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So we're agreeing.
	I'm just making the distinction.
	But also, it's not like... I'm always puzzled about why it is that we know that we know.
	Because it's not like God is out there every day sort of extending his His forefinger from the clouds and touching ours and sort of... Well, I mean, not literally.
	He doesn't work miracles in our lives every day, even though he does kind of.
	You know, you feel his guiding hand.
	But it's not... It's complicated, isn't it?
	It's not an obvious thing to...
	I don't think it's complicated.
	I think it's mysterious.
	I think it's important that, you know, so on the one hand God is the author of a story and it is this magical story that he's writing and the kind of The elements of how we know what we know are, on the one hand, very simple and very clear.
	God, by his Holy Spirit, regenerates our hearts.
	The image in the prophets is that he takes out a heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh.
	That is a heart that believes and doesn't reject God any longer.
	He unstops deaf ears so he can hear his voice.
	He opens blind eyes so he can see the truth and see who Jesus is.
	And he does that by his Holy Spirit.
	And faith comes by hearing the Word of God.
	So as we hear the Word of God proclaimed, faith grows within.
	Now, those are very simple elements to understand.
	The difficulty is It's mysterious and we can't actually really, as I understand, we can understand the logic of the idea.
	Understanding what it actually means is much more complicated.
	Yeah.
	Because it's a mystery.
	Well, it is a mystery, exactly, and we know that God moves in mysterious ways.
	And that, of course, is part of the frustration and the excitement and the fascination of this.
	I keep saying Christianity is the ultimate rabbit hole.
	Well, if a rabbit hole is something you can go down and discover more and more and more and more and become increasingly aware of reality and more fully become more fully human and more fully aware of everything um well then yeah
	um now we're going to get to my favorite bit which is well one of my favorite bits where he shall judge among the heathen and fill the places with the dead bodies and smite in sunder the heads over divers countries Now, this is one of those...
	Moments where you actually see the word smite because God's always smiting people in kind of in in in comedy comedy shows and stuff Yes, right.
	It's right smite is one of those those those words that People associate with God and the Bible But here he is actually doing it or rather Jesus is on it on it.
	Yeah, so this is what will come to those who continue to stand against and The King's Authority.
	The imagery is absolutely brutal, you're right.
	He will fill the places with dead bodies.
	These bodies will actually be allowed to pile high and he will smite and sunder over diverse countries and crush the heads of states.
	However this is translated, the essence of the verse is that the Messiah will overcome all opposition and this is to your point earlier, it will go right up to the very top of the highest echelons of power.
	Kings will be torn down.
	Dictators will be humbled.
	Monarchs dethroned.
	Prime ministers brought low.
	They had all manner of power at their disposal during their life.
	But because they didn't acknowledge God's priest king, they will meet him as their divine warrior.
	It's a terrible picture of the day of Christ's wrath.
	Yeah.
	Just to say, that enigmatic verse at the end, it doesn't give us any relief.
	Do you want to do verse 7?
	Do you remember verse 7?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
	Hang on, he shall drink of the brook in the way, therefore shall he lift up his head?
	That's it, that's it.
	The divine warrior will not stop for luxuries during the battle, but will drink in haste from the river.
	He will refresh himself as he continues to pursue his enemy.
	That's what it means!
	I thought it was a nice sort of soothing bit at the end.
	He shall drink of the brook in the way.
	He's having a nice drink.
	So what does therefore shall he lift up his head mean?
	There's something similar with Samson in Judges 15 when he defeats the Philistines.
	He has just done a thousand men with the jawbone and he says he's very thirsty and he cries to God.
	The Lord gives him water from a rock and he's refreshed and his strength returns for further battle.
	This is the picture.
	It's not that he stops and has a cup of tea at the end as a job well done.
	The picture is of him refreshing himself Restrengthening himself to go on bringing for some more killing.
	Yes That's cool That's cool.
	So I you're right I Automatically associate, you know, you've done your job.
	You have a nice cuppa afterwards No So, I mean what we see but to be fair I mean I Go on.
	The Lord Jesus is gentle and lowly of heart to those who commit themselves to his care.
	He does invite Matthew 11, all who are heavy, weary and heavy laden to come to him for rest for their souls.
	But here, as in Psalm 2, we see that those who willfully reject his rule will be punished.
	And here is why, you know, this really is very good news.
	We've sort of alluded to it and been a bit lighthearted about it.
	But the reality is in the face of the terrible corruption, that we see in the world today, in the face of the exploitation that goes around us all the time, Christ the warrior will ensure that justice is done.
	Evil will not win.
	Those who have perpetrated awful things in their lives will have to answer for them.
	And that is right and good.
	There will be a judgment where those who seemingly got away with great wickedness in this life will be judged.
	Yes.
	I don't think we're going to be alive to see this particular scene.
	No, no, no.
	No, no, it's a long way off.
	Oh, you think so?
	Yeah.
	We're just getting started.
	I think it's around the corner, but I just think... No, I think... I'm thinking before 2030.
	Well, if that's the case, we're going to need to see a huge revival very quickly.
	Because the promise in the prophets is that the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.
	So the world will be Christianized before this King comes to bring his judgment.
	Oh, I see.
	So this is after the thousand years?
	Well, a thousand years isn't a literal thousand years, I don't think.
	Okay.
	Now, if you want a rabbit hole, James, if you want a rabbit hole, the end times rabbit hole is, you know, it doesn't ever end.
	No, well, no, well, exactly.
	Well, can you just give me the TLDR on what you think happens in, I mean, okay, so what do you think, how is it going to play out now?
	Because all the manifest evil in the world now, they can't string it along that long, can they?
	There's got to be some divine intervention pretty soon.
	I missed you there, sorry.
	What was the question?
	You went out.
	Sorry, James.
	You went out.
	You're back now. - Yeah.
	Yeah, I lost you as well.
	So, how do you, what's your...
	Take on how it's going to play out, because I'm seeing the badness accelerating, the forces of darkness overplaying their hand.
	It's becoming the predilection of our ruling elites for murdered children and adrenochrome, for example.
	Their hunger for a third world war, either over Israel Either over Gaza or over Ukraine or maybe both.
	The nakedness with the obviousness with which they're trying to poison us and starve us.
	You know that they're destroying.
	I mean today it was beehives in New Zealand.
	You know that they're trying to starve us.
	We're not going to last that much longer before God comes in surely.
	So, we've got to take a global perspective on this, and it is certainly the case that the West is experiencing the judgment of God for the squandering of His grace and privileges in previous generations.
	However, the Gospel is advancing apace in Africa and Asia, and one of the pictures that Church history paints for us is that where the church is persecuted, it grows most aggressively.
	And that's why the church in China, for example, that's been forced underground is growing so rapidly.
	I don't know how it'll play out, but there are a number of biblical principles that I think apply.
	One is that The promise of the prophets is that the gospel will triumph and that is picked up in the New Testament.
	We started with 11 on a mountain and we're at many hundreds of millions of people that acknowledge the Lord Jesus today.
	And whilst things look like they're going to get quite a lot worse for us and in the West in general, it's like... I suppose I would liken it to somebody on an escalator with a yo-yo.
	Someone on an escalator with a yoyo.
	It's all going up, but the experience is up and down as you go.
	And we will always experience rejection and suffering as the Church of the Lord Jesus, after the pattern of the cross.
	But, you know, the Lamb wins, there is triumph, there is victory.
	And the West is experiencing a particular chastening from the Lord.
	And until we repent, and until our Kings and Rulers of the Earth acknowledge that they have to bow the knee to the Davidic King.
	we're not going to see any change.
	Reuben, I'm going to, I'd love to talk about End Times and Revelation with you, but The devil is interfering with my Wi-Fi, as he does.
	The demons loathe my Christian Podcasts, particularly.
	They're always dicking around with them.
	It's really annoying.
	Thank you for your elucidation.
	Thank you for explaining the last lines apart from anything else.
	It was all like a peaceful brook trickling by, you know, like the still waters in Psalm 23.
	And it was nothing of the kind.
	Anyway, tell us where we can find you if we want to come to your services or if we want to read your stuff.
	Where do we get hold of you?
	I don't have any social media, I don't have an electronic footprint or if I do it's as small as possible.
	I'm a minister at the International Presbyterian Church in Ealing in West London and we meet there each Sunday.
	And obviously your services are great.
	I mean, I'm not the person to ask.
	Well, I tell you what, obviously they're not as good as my services would be, if ever I was to be.
	But you know what?
	It probably ain't going to happen, so you're safe.
	Your church is safe.
	Thank you everyone for listening.
	My Psalms Podcasts have a special place in my heart as I hope they do in yours as well.
	So please spread the word.
	And obviously support me if you want to on Substack and on Locals and all the other places.
	Buy me a coffee if you want to give me a one-off treat.
	And thank you for all your support.
	And keep reading the Psalms and learning them.
	Do what I do.
	I mean, not everything I do is great, but learning the Psalms is definitely, I think, a habit you should acquire.
	Anyway, thank you.
	Reuben, thank you very much.

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