James chats Laura Towler, wife of Sam Melia to discuss what Sam’s recent jailing means for English justice and our rights and freedoms.
Sam’s GiveSendGo:
https://www.givesendgo.com/sammelia
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Welcome to the deling pod, Laura, Laura Towler.
Um, it's I've been doing, uh, I've been doing this podcast for quite a while now and I remember a few years ago people were saying you've got to have Laura Towler on and for one reason or another I didn't get around to it but it seems absolutely appropriate now that we should talk about
Your husband, Sam, Sam Melia, and I didn't realise what the connection was.
I don't really sort of keep up with any form of politics.
I mean, I know you're engaged in, you know, you've got your party is Patriotic Alternatives.
That's right.
Yeah.
I'm not a joiner.
I don't like playing the game, but I mean, it seems to me that you have been You and Sam have been targeted by the state for destruction.
And your husband is now in prison for... Just tell us about the case.
Yeah, gosh.
Well, first of all, thank you for inviting me on your show.
I think a lot of people won't touch Patriotic Alternative because we're maybe a little bit too controversial.
Even though there's not actually anything controversial about what we believe, you know, the lies that are spread about us in the press and stuff, I think some people do fall for them.
But yeah, with Sam, I'm not even sure where to begin because this is something that's been hanging over us for three years now.
So he was arrested three years ago by counter-terrorism for one terrorism offence and two public order offences and they jumped him in the post office, took him into the police station and then immediately dropped the terror offence and one of the public order offences and just stuck with the public order offence for the stickers.
And then they carried out a massive investigation where they looked through all areas of his life, desperately trying to find some terrorism, didn't find anything, and then just went quiet.
So after two years we started pestering them and saying, can we have our stuff back?
You've got our phones, you've got our computers, you've got our PlayStation 4, you've got our... they had like 36 of our things.
We've got a business, you know, we need our stuff back.
And that week they charged Sam for the stickers.
So I'm not sure if they would have even charged him if we didn't pester them but I'm glad that we did because it's meant that there's an end in sight now.
Do you know it's it's finished now otherwise it could have gone on for years and years.
So they charged him for these stickers which they never really cared about because they had all that evidence two years prior and then we had to wait a year for it to go to court It went to court in January this year and he was put on trial for some stickers, an archive of stickers that the prosecution said were all legal.
So every single message on the stickers is legal, which is the most, like, irritating thing.
Do you want, Laura, do you want to tell me some of the messages on the stickers?
Because I'd like to know.
We deserve to know.
So there was 310 stickers in total, and 13% of the stickers were about other races, other religions, ethnicities, multiculturalism, diversity, that kind of stuff.
None of them used racial slurs or encouraged violence or anything like that, but then there was 87% of the stickers which were about critiquing There was a sticker saying make art beautiful again, obviously white lives matter, cancel your BBC TV license, there were stickers about only being two genders, this vast array of political messages.
Obviously the trial was focused around racial hatred so it was these 13% of stickers But they said things like, um, drawing attention to, um, I'm not sure where this is gonna... I'll censor my language a bit.
I'm not sure where you're uploading this, but drawing attention to, like, grooming gangs.
Um, there were stickers in there about free speech and certain groups like... Oh, I think you can... Laura, I think you can... The only one that shocked me so far is where you've said there's only two genders.
I'd say there's only two sexes.
Yes.
I hate that word gender.
I hate that word as well.
I think he should have been locked up briefly for using the word gender.
Yeah, we shouldn't entertain the notion of gender.
Sorry, if all these... So there were 300 different messages?
Yeah, and I'm not ashamed of speaking about any of them, so if there's any that you've seen that you think are controversial, let's go through them.
Unlike, say, the Free Speech Union, for example, I do actually believe in free speech.
And you've already said, the prosecution barrister in this case has admitted that none of these stickers say anything that is illegal, right?
Yes, that's right.
So he said, in court, and on the documents that Sam got before he went to court, that every single sticker, the message on every single sticker is legal.
So, I think, just from following it a little bit on social media, the one that people seemed to think was the most controversial was a sticker that said, second generation, third generation, fourth generation, you have to go back.
Now, it doesn't say you all have to go back, and that sticker was actually started after there were a number of terror attacks in 2017, I think it was, where all of the terror murderers, so it was the Manchester Arena bombing, the London Bridge, the Westminster attack, they were all people who were born here, and people were saying, well, you know, they're British, they're born here, we can't send them back, and that sticker was started to get a conversation going about It doesn't matter if you're born here, you still have to go back.
It doesn't say every single non-British person has to go back, but still the prosecution said that that sticker was legal.
They also said in court on the first day, the truth is no defence in court.
So even if you can prove that every single sticker is factually correct, that's not a defence at all.
And then they also said, That there were zero examples of crimes committed because of these stickers.
So there wasn't one single police report of a hate crime, or a hate incident, or hatred being stirred up, violence being stirred up, anything.
Not one single example of a crime happening because of the stickers.
So they were legal, they were truthful, and they caused no crime.
Sam was convicted for his intentions, his thoughts behind publishing the stickers.
Thought crime?
It's thought crime.
Is that under the legislation that Tony Blair introduced?
It's a public order act, isn't it?
I think it's potentially from before Tony Blair.
I'm not 100% sure on the history of it, but if anyone wants to look up this law, it's called Distributing or publishing material with the intention to stir up racial hatred.
So it's your, it doesn't mean that racial hatred has been stirred up.
It's your intentions when you did it.
Oh, I see.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Sam is now doing time in, in prison.
Cause you had to get, we had trouble fixing a slot for this chap because you've got to get a babysitter to look after your baby.
Cause at the moment, how old's your baby?
My daughter's two and we're also having another baby in three weeks.
Oh, congrats.
Thank you.
So Sam is going to miss the birth.
Not a good time to have... No.
You need a husband there so you can bite his head off with your kind of pregnancy rages and things.
Yeah, or bite his hand.
I think I bit his hand when our daughter was born when we were in the hospital.
Do you know?
My wife did as well.
She bit my bloody hand.
It was horrible!
Must be a thing that we do.
That's the message to husbands.
Don't be with your wife when she knits.
It should be a private moment between the wife and her...
I've got some very cute gloves on!
Anyway, so Sam is now in prison, which must seem unreal.
I mean, for doing, like, I'm not thinking, I'm not thinking, you know, even if I were one of the racial groups that are supposedly a victim of this, you know, I don't think I would be thinking this guy is a danger to me and should be in prison.
I really don't.
I think most people would reasonably think.
How long is he in prison for and where is he?
Well, he's been sentenced to two years in prison.
However, the maximum that he will serve is one year.
And that's if he's a very, very bad prisoner and he's, you know, very naughty.
If he gets his head down and behaves and, you know, you collect points and stuff for, like, using the library and being a good prisoner and stuff.
If he does that, then I think he'll be out this autumn.
So we'll do about eight months.
But, Laura, I mean, eight months is... Prison's horrible.
The food's horrible.
He's surrounded by genuinely dangerous people, isn't he?
He's saying it's boring.
It's boring?
Yeah, because you're in your cell for 22 hours a day.
So you get one hour outside and you get one hour in the communal area and then he's in his cell for 22 hours a day.
So he's just so bored.
Oh, I can imagine.
And the lack of exercise.
Does he share a cell with somebody?
How does it work?
No, he's considered high risk, so he has his own cell.
I'm not sure if he's high risk to other people, or other people are high risk to him, but he gets a cell to himself.
I suppose that he's going to be high risk as a potential victim of Muslim gangs and things, maybe.
Yeah, potentially, but it's... so he's in Leeds.
He's in Leeds Prison, HMP Leeds, and it's overwhelmingly just English, just white.
I said there's only a couple of non-English people there, so... Oh, OK.
OK.
That's interesting.
Yeah, well...
I'm still shocked, and I think most people watching this are going to be shocked, that okay, I mean, they're a bit edgy, some of the stickers, but like, as you say, they're not illegal.
And here is a man with a pregnant wife and a young two-year-old daughter doing time for something which is just like...
I don't think most people watching this are going to be thinking this is how our justice system should work.
This is where our tax money should be spent.
This is a guy who should be off the streets.
Well, it was a Nigerian investigation.
Counter-terrorism spent five years on this investigation.
And millions of pounds of taxpayers' money for stickers.
That's another thing, isn't it?
We've been trained to think of terrorists as a threat to our lives and our livelihoods.
Terrorists are really evil, we've been taught.
So, for somebody to be investigated by counter-terrorism, they'd have to be really, really evil, wouldn't they?
I mean, they'd have to be plotting to blow people up on the train or something.
So what was their charge against Sam?
Yeah, well, so when they first arrested him, obviously, it was counter-terrorism, and they arrested him for something like financial conspiracy or something, which, no idea what that was, what evidence they had of that, because Sam isn't engaged in anything like that.
But like I said, they got into the police station and then immediately dropped it, and then just followed through with the public order offence.
So ultimately, counter-terrorism did fail, because they didn't find any terrorism.
They looked through all his devices, every conversation he's ever had, You know, desperately trying to find someone and they didn't.
So counter-terrorism did fail and it got reverted back to West Yorkshire Police, who ended up charging him for the public order offence, which is a lot less serious.
But it's still taken away, you know, this time of our lives and I think we're angry at that because it never should have gone to court when you didn't find what you were looking for.
You should have just dropped it.
Do you know what I mean?
Instead of trying to build a case.
So if people are watching this and they have followed the case, you'll know that they didn't actually find any evidence of Sam's intentions.
So say if there was secret messages where he was saying, I really hate these groups or I've got these intentions to cause a load of trouble, that would have been evidence.
But they didn't find anything like that, not a single message.
So what they did was they built a profile of him By taking a small amount of things from our house and a small amount of private messages that he'd sent and then use them to say that he was a bad person.
But they, again, they didn't really have anything.
So you might have heard of the Hitler picture which the press are all going on about.
Oh yeah.
Apparently we had a Hitler picture in our house, which we didn't.
There was actually a garage on another street that Sam and his friends exercised in during lockdown, and in that garage there was a funny picture of Hitler.
It was something to do with Hitler doing pull-ups.
It wasn't a serious picture at all.
You were, in fact, mocking the Führer.
Yeah, well Sam said in court, if this is an indication of my ideology, what is my ideology?
Is it taking the mickey out of Hitler?
So that apparently meant just that picture, and I think there was like a memorabilia like eagle or something as well that they took, those two things apparently mean that Sam is a committed Nazi.
And no messages of him discussing National Socialism or Hitler or the Holocaust or anything like that.
Those two things, a funny picture and a little eagle, mean that he is a Nazi.
So they showed that in court and they said, look, he's a Nazi.
And then there were a couple of other things.
I have a book, well, I have quite a lot of books.
I have a book by Oswald Moseley that I was currently reading at the time.
It was on my bedside table.
So that apparently means that Sam is a fascist and he's obsessed with Oswald Moseley.
Because I had a book and I got up in court and testified that it was my book.
Showed the receipt of me buying it from Amazon before me and Sam got together.
And then I was very capable of talking about Moseley in court.
You know, very fluent talking about him.
So it was obviously mine.
But again, they used that book and said, he's a fascist.
He's got this book by Oswald Mosley.
I tell you, Laura, if they came around to my house, they would prove that I was a Nazi because I've got a book, a big book on Hitler, which used to belong, in fact, I borrowed it off Michael Gove.
I haven't, I've never given it back.
Um, uh, I've got a, the, the thing that goes on the front of a, of a, of a, of a swastika that goes on the front of a car that I picked up in a, in a flea market in Slovenia.
And somebody bought me for Christmas once, a, cause they know I like, I like horses and they know I was, well, I was into World War II at the time.
So it's, it's a, it's a cigarette case with a horse and a swastika on it.
So, I mean, that would be an open-shut case.
Well, I suppose what I'm saying here is that most people who are interested in, you know, picking up, brick-a-bracket, flea market souvenirs into World War II or into history could easily be branded a Nazi if they wanted to.
And that sounds like, to me, like they were desperate to pin a case on Sam.
And, you know, to blacken his name.
I mean, so what's...
This is all of a piece, isn't it, with the government, or rather the deep state, clamping down on the thing they call the far right.
They want you branded in the same league as Islamic extremists and all the other forms of terrorists, if we believe there are actual terrorists rather than kind of false flags, which is where I am pretty much.
But yeah, they want to make an example of him, don't they?
Yeah, there's not... I mean, I'm not going to say that there's not a single right-wing or far-right person out there who's planning to do something bad, because maybe there is, but the threat of far-right terrorism in this country is very, very, very small, and it's smaller than the threat of far-left terror.
I mean, I've been at protests before where Antifa have turned up with knives, That's terrorism, that's political violence.
My husband and I, we've been out leafleting before and we've been jumped by the far left.
Again, that's political violence, that's terrorism.
I think if you look at the EU report on terrorism, look at all the attacks that either happened or they foiled.
Most of them are Islamic, and then it's left-wing, and then it's a very small number for right-wing.
So they're having to manufacture this problem, which doesn't really exist.
I saw this morning that they've charged... Oh, has he been found guilty?
Yeah, he pled guilty.
A 15-year-old boy has been found... pled guilty to... Again, it's terrorism for documents that he possessed on his computer.
That's where we are now, you know, if you've got a document on your computer, even if you can prove that you've never opened it and read it, well that means that you possess that document, so technically you have broken the law and you're now a terrorist.
If you look through some of the recent convictions for public order offences and terrorism, it's social media posts, it's owning documents on your computer, it's using a naughty racial slur on a podcast five years ago that you've not said since, it's stuff like that.
I think this needs to be a priority for people who consider themselves to be patriotic or, you know, nationalistic or right-wing.
We need to be pushing back against these laws and we also need to be defending everybody's right to freedom of speech because anyone who's listening to this...
They could come for you if they decided to target you for a reason.
Would you be confident that if they looked through every single message that you'd ever sent, there wouldn't be one thing that you'd maybe said in jest or you'd maybe said in anger that they could use to misrepresent you?
Because I think they could do that with absolutely every single one of us.
There might be a private joke between you and your friends or, you know, maybe your boyfriend cheated on you and he said something about wanting to stab him or something.
They could misrepresent all of us based on messages.
And that's where we are.
You know, these laws are written in such an open to interpretation manner that they can pick and choose who they want to come after.
And they're not going after students who are walking about with Che Guevara t-shirts and busts of Stalin in their house.
They're going after nationalists and patriots.
Yeah, yeah.
So I imagine that the Free Speech Union will have been all over your case and really helping you out.
Tell me about that.
Yeah, well, so Sam is a member of the Free Speech Union and when he was found guilty he contacted them and said, you know, I've been found guilty for this crime, can you help me out?
And they got back in touch with him and they said, are you wanting to appeal and can I have your solicitor's details and I'll speak to him?
So, Sam sent over the solicitor's details and he said, yes, I do want to appeal.
Here's a document of all the grounds that I think I might have for appeal.
And then we never heard anything back from them at all.
And I saw that Toby Young was getting a lot of grief on social media because they were like, when are you going to talk about, you know, Sam Meelier and his case?
It's really bad.
And he shared an article by David something that was just his really, really terrible article.
This guy supports Hope Not Hurt.
He was basically saying that Sam Did break the law and is a bad person and should be in prison and Toby Young shared that article which I was just absolutely disgusted by it.
So Toby Young responded by saying, oh we contacted Sam's solicitor and he's not responded and Sam told us that he doesn't want to appeal and I was just like, you lying git!
So I dug out the email, you know, where Sam had sent over this appeal document to the Free Speech Union and he'd Send over the details of his solicitor and stuff.
And from what I've heard, I think Toby Young is saying that he's going to have another shot at contacting Sam's solicitor or something.
But he doesn't want to touch it because it's too controversial, I think.
Yeah.
Well, he really should.
I mean, that's the whole point about free speech.
I was going to do an article about this at some stage, and I still will, actually, which is I think that one of the, on the committee or whatever of the Free Speech Union is Douglas Murray.
He's one of the, on the list of, I think Michael Gove's on it as well, I think there's quite a few of them, of my sort of old mates from when I was living in normie world.
And I've read, I must have read about half a dozen articles by Douglas Murray.
Saying that the free speech that most needs defending is difficult speech.
Speech that offends people.
It's not, you know, stuff that everyone can agree on.
It's precisely those areas which are contentious and potentially, you know, could cause people upset.
Those are the things that need most protecting if we are to have genuine free speech, otherwise it's not free speech.
And I worry that the free speech union, which has kind of cornered the market in, like, we stand up for free speech and we are the citizens' voice against the system, And it seems to me that when push comes to shove, it's not actually doing what it says it does or what it's supposed to do.
It's like Controlled Opposition, isn't it, where it presents a solution and we're the guys who will fight for you, but when push comes to shove, like you say, they actually won't touch certain cases.
They seem to just want to talk about, like, gender, using that word again, and, you know, cases that are not controversial to, like, 99.99% of people.
But Douglas Murray, he was, something came out about him recently where he's Wasn't he supporting people losing their rights and all sorts of things if they commit hate crimes or something?
I can't remember the document.
I'll have to dig it up and maybe send it to you.
I have to say, Laura, that in the last two or three years I've realised that the people that I thought were on the side of truth, justice, free speech, liberty, small government, you know, all the things that
The things that I think any sentient person should care about, that these people are not sticking up for those values, that all of them in one way or another are bought and paid for either literally or metaphorically by vested interests, it seems to me.
Well, we know that when someone gets quite big that, you know, they do get certain organisations and individuals messaging them and offering to help fund them as long as they have certain opinions and stuff.
I think also it's an element of not wanting to lose your platform and not wanting to be kicked out of polite society so people won't talk about an issue that's maybe controversial that could get them cancelled.
Well, that's absolutely it.
I mean, look, patriotic or alternative?
About all I know about you is that you are one of those evil far-right parties, white nationalists, that is, that is, you're basically terrorists, you know, you're, you're, you're evil and everyone who supports you, I mean, obviously I get this from the mainstream media, but this, this is, this is, this is my, I imagine, you know, tell me, tell me about Patriotic Alternative and why do you do it?
Yeah, well, so we're a community building and activism group.
So we have almost 20,000 people signed up on our mailing list and we have, I'd say, maybe around 500 activists as well across England, Scotland and Wales.
We've created this big community of nationalists in Britain but some of the things that we focus on are things like moving the Overton window and helping to raise awareness about certain issues.
Our big topic is demographics and the fact that white British people are on track to becoming a minority in Britain.
We act as a pressure group as well, so we've had like Drag Queen Story Hour events cancelled and migrant hotels cancelled and that kind of stuff.
We do a lot of big street protests, street stalls, leafleting.
We have an alternative curriculum which is created by teachers for parents who want to home educate their children.
We have a big focus on self-sufficiency as well, so creating our own payment processes and so that people who are I mean, I've had seven bank accounts shut down now, seven personal bank accounts.
I don't have a bank account anymore, I've not had one for ages.
But we've created methods so that people who are oppressed by the system are still able to function in Britain in 2024.
We are engaged in electoral politics as well, however the Electoral Commission won't allow us to be a political party.
So this May we're standing three independent candidates.
And we also help other parties as well, such as the British Democrats and the English Democrats.
We'll go out and canvas and leaflet with them.
But yeah, we're a nationalist organisation.
Everything they say about us isn't true.
We believe that British people exist.
Controversial, I know.
And that we should be the majority of the population in Britain, which is something that the vast majority of countries around the world are afforded.
But if you're white, You're not allowed that because apparently that means you're a big bad meanie and you hate everybody else.
So we do talk about race and ethnicity openly.
But that's it.
They'll talk about us being extremists and terrorists and say that we're linked to violence.
Just completely false.
Completely non-violent organisation.
No examples of us ever supporting violence, not even once.
I guess it is a compliment to us because they can't actually critique anything truthful, so they just have to lie about us.
But every time the media writes an article about us, it just gives us another wave of new activists and new registrations and members and stuff.
So I do think the majority of the public can see through it now.
I'll tell you what I think is weird.
My son went to Japan a few months ago and said it was just amazing.
It's the coolest place he's ever, ever been.
And one of the things he liked about it is it's so incredibly, defiantly Japanese.
So that there are restaurants that you, if you go into a restaurant and you can't speak Japanese, they'll just chuck you out.
There are places where you are not welcome if you cannot speak Japanese.
And so you can argue that it's an incredibly racist, racist culture, because it is mainly Japanese people who live in Japan.
Or if you go to Israel, you know that in order to live in Israel you've got to be Jewish or prove that you're, you know, I mean there are ways around it but mostly it is a Jewish state.
So those two examples, do we live in a world where Israel and Japan are sort of denied A place in the public square because of their evil, fascist, nationalistic policies.
No, we don't.
I mean, I totally respect what the Japanese are doing.
I don't see anything weird about it.
I think, you know, I mean, there aren't... It's just two big islands, isn't it, really?
And they've got a special culture and they want to keep it that way.
That seems to be eminently reasonable.
I love all the stuff about Sushi and this weird tradition they've got of dedicating their lives to particular things.
Like there's apparently a guy in Tokyo who makes the best pizza in the world.
He's Japanese, but he's so dedicated himself to the art of making pizza.
That's what they do.
Or it's pottery, or it's sushi, or whatever.
Or it's how to dissect a fugu fish.
I love that.
I respect them.
So I don't see that it's It doesn't seem to be unreasonable to me that you and people like you should want Britain to be essentially the same racial mix as it was, you know, well it is now at least, and probably you'd prefer it as it was in the 1950s.
I don't understand why there's anything wrong with you wanting that.
Yeah, well, there's so much diversity, to use that word, and beauty in the world.
You know, I'd love to go to Japan and see Japanese people and culture and hear their language and their traditions and stuff, just like I'd love to go to Germany and see that and maybe go to India and see that.
Yeah.
I want that for Britain as well.
I want to see British people.
That doesn't mean every single person has to be British, but I want, you know, our towns and cities to be overwhelmingly British.
I want to Hear our language, of our languages being spoken.
I want our people to have self-determination so that they can govern themselves and make their own decisions.
There are no dual interests or anything like that.
I want our people to be safe because we know that diversity and multiculturalism breeds conflict.
I mean, I lived in Bradford for 18 months.
I was supposed to live there for two years but I left because I just couldn't do it.
It was awful.
I was made to feel like a stranger in the city that I lived in.
All the shops were selling foreign clothes, foreign food.
There was mosques everywhere instead of churches.
People were speaking different languages.
I was told that I wasn't welcome in certain areas.
When you have a group of people who are different to you, And they sort of take over an area, like it's happening in places like Birmingham, Leicester, Luton, Slough, Bradford, etc.
They just create their country but somewhere else.
And that's natural, you know, there is a link between race, ethnicity and culture.
Just like if a lot of British people went to China, we'd probably create a little England place somewhere, you know, it wouldn't be all Chinese buildings and stuff.
And it doesn't mean that you hate everybody else or you think that you're better than everyone else.
It just means that you love what you have and you want to preserve it.
I mean, I think with Patriotic Alternative, so we're run by Mark Collett, who is in his early 40s now.
He was a lot more controversial when he was 20, but usually when the press publish him, you know, say, oh, he's a big bad guy, they'll take a quote of something that he said when he was at university.
And it's like, well, you know, Mike's grown up a lot.
Mike's changed his opinions a lot and he's an absolutely fantastic leader.
He's very, very intelligent.
I've never seen him lose a debate.
He always makes the right decisions and he's loved as well.
I mean, there are a lot of people who don't like him, but he is really loved.
So I think because we have Mark as our leader, that's maybe one of the reasons people say that we're quite controversial.
But if you actually go and listen to him today, he's just incredible.
He's such a great guy and he gives so much and works so hard.
He's actually the godfather for my daughter.
That's how much I like him.
It seems to me that by What they, the people who sort of control us and want to crush us, the people responsible for all the ills in the world.
I'm talking about the people who are ultimately behind the Covid nonsense and the war on farmers and the nonsense of climate change, all this stuff.
But what they want is to create a climate in which nobody can speak out about things like mass immigration.
So you've got rubber boats arriving on our shores pretty much every day, ferrying illegal immigrants across into the country.
We don't know where they come from.
And a lot of people feel really uncomfortable about that.
A lot of people feel really uncomfortable about how they're being put up in hostels or in hotels.
The hotel that you go to for your wedding or whatever, they're now being occupied by these immigrants.
They're young men of fighting age.
People are worried about that.
They're thinking, what's happening there?
So, all I'm saying is that it seems to me that lots of people, if you ask them, the majority of people in this country would be legitimately concerned about what's happening and wondering why it's happening.
Because I don't think most people buy the argument that it's, you know, they're designed to, our people don't want to work, so we've got to import this labour to look after us in our old age.
I mean, that's a lie in itself.
But most people would Have these reservations and yet by targeting you and people like you, the government is sending a signal saying this view is evil, this view is far right.
You cannot have it.
Do you agree with me?
Is that what's going on?
Yeah, I think when you silence somebody and you ban them from social media, because everyone in PA is still banned from Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, everywhere, TikTok, you can't even share the link to our website on Twitter.
It comes up saying that it's malware and doesn't allow you to do it.
So I think when you cut off somebody's tongue like that and you stop them from being able to speak and then you target them like they have done with Sam and send them to prison, You don't prove to the world that these people are wrong, you prove to the world that you're scared of what those people have to say.
And there are still a number of nationalists, patriots and stuff who are suspended from most, if not all, mainstream social media platforms.
Our views are popular.
Not everyone's a nationalist, but our views are popular.
We're not some little fringe movement like the Make Out where it's like, you know, 1% of the population are against immigration.
Immigration is consistently brought up as an issue that is worrying to the vast majority of British people.
Not just British people, but also non-British people who live here are against immigration, many of them.
So I think the Tories just want to I mean, they are the party of immigration, 14 years in power, obviously they're very unpopular at the moment, and they've broken records for immigration every single year, legal and illegal immigration.
So when a real opposition comes up and says, hey, we'd stop this, we'd be a lot more, like, ruthless and brutal in our responses to these things.
They're like, no, you know, we're the ones who are anti-immigration, Labour are the ones who want open borders.
It's like, no, your two sides are the same coin.
It doesn't matter which party you vote for out of those two, you're still getting mass immigration.
So, yeah, they just want to crush everyone who's a real opposition to them, I think.
Yes.
By the way, can you hear that noise?
I apologise if it's coming through.
It's gone now.
Oh, well, I just muted my microphone.
Can you hear it now?
Yeah.
So it's coming from your end.
Oh, I can't actually hear anything.
Unless it's coming from inside my computer.
Anyway, I apologize to viewers and listeners.
It's beyond our control.
Yeah, I do have some headphones, but Sam's put them somewhere and I don't know where he's put them and obviously I can't ask him.
So sorry about that.
No, no.
Well, that's the yeah, you can't ask him, can you?
You can't just call him up when he's in prison.
Yeah.
What do you think about Nigel Farage and Richard Tice and that lot?
They talk about immigration don't they?
Yeah I don't think that they you know seriously would do anything to stop it.
I think Nigel Farage is a very intelligent guy and he's a great speaker but you know he bragged about destroying the BNP.
He has these very sort of Maybe just slightly to the right views on immigration.
And then when he presents himself as a guy who has the solutions, the real people who have the solutions are not paid attention to.
I mean, Richard Tice, they're talking about bringing net immigration to zero, which would still mean around, I think, a few hundred thousand new immigrants come into the country every single year, just because the amount of people who are leaving Britain.
So that would still be massive demographic change taking place in the country.
They're also suspending a lot of people, aren't they?
I've been seeing who are saying things that are maybe slightly controversial.
So I would describe these groups as controlled opposition.
They're presented to us as an alternative to the mainstream parties, but if you actually dig into their policies and the things that they stand for... I mean, they call us Nazis and they call us racist and far-right and fascist and bigots and all this kind of stuff.
I don't think they would do anything to stop the demographic decline of British people.
And if they would, it would just be very, very, very slowly.
We'd still be heading in the same direction.
So I don't support them.
But I would say that if you're going to go and vote, and reform is the only option that you have, in addition to the main parties, I would vote for reform just to send a message to the establishment that we are looking at alternatives now and your time is over.
Lie me, Laurie.
I think I'm more out there than you.
I would say to people, just don't bloody vote.
I mean, the system is so broken.
They're all controlling opposition.
I mean, certainly Tyson and Farage.
I would never... Well, another option is to destroy your ballot slip, and that also sends a message.
You know, there's not an option there.
Yeah, I mean, there could be a good independent candidate who might be able to improve your local area slightly.
Like I say, we're standing three independents this May, all in the North West, but they do record the number of spoiled ballots as well, so that's also a message that goes to the establishment.
I'd definitely go for the penis option.
I'm going to practice my drawing my penis.
Well, not my penis, but drawing a penis on the... Yeah.
You're mute.
You're muted at the moment.
Oh, that's better.
I'm a lady so I could never advise such a thing.
You could draw some lady parts if you had the skills.
So I suddenly remembered something you said earlier that actually I was quite shocked by about Toby Young.
The guy who wrote the article which he praised He commissioned a guy, and he obviously commissioned it for his site The Daily Skeptic, to run an article robustly... I can't remember what the exact phrase Toby used, but it was definitely a very positive phrase which implied that
That the arguments for Sam had been destroyed and that clearly in this case the judge was right to imprison him or whatever.
That there were some cases where free speech rules just didn't apply.
But you say this man is a supporter of hope not hate?
Yeah, it's frustrating because my Twitter account is in read-only mode so I can see things but I can't like or follow or comment.
The buttons are there but when I click on them nothing happens and I just really wanted to respond to him and have a go at him.
Toby Young described the article, did he say something like staunchly defends?
Staunchly!
That was the word, now staunch, unlike Toby, I did actually study English language and literature.
I'm not some sort of PPE.
You know, PPE is basically the training ground for the rulers of the darkness of this world.
If someone has done PPE, look, Julie Hartley Brewer did PPE.
Probably Satan studied PPE.
It's for wrong-uns.
I know about the English language.
And when you staunchly defend something, I mean, maybe Toby ought to know, because he's been a journalist for, what, 35 years?
We're getting on a bit now, aren't we?
Yeah, definitely 35 years.
He ought to know that Staunch carries with it the notion of a sort of brave, outspoken, controversial, borderline heroic defence.
of the truth against kind of massed evil opposition.
Now, I'm not seeing that that really applies in the case of a guy being put in prison for doing 300 leaflets, some of which might be a bit nationalist, but actually some of which might be a bit nationalist, but actually are not illegal, None of them is illegal.
I don't think that that is a case that Sam is somebody that needs staunchly fighting against.
And I'm really disturbed, really disturbed actually, to learn that... How do you know that this guy is... I've got to look up his name.
How do you know this guy is a backer of Hope Not Hate?
Well, he was sharing Hope Not Hate's articles about Sam on Twitter, which are just full of lies, just full of lies.
You know, screenshots of messages that are nothing to do with Sam, saying that they're Sam.
So he...
I think Toby Young agreed with the article and shared it in that manner.
And then when he got the pile on and completely attacked it, everyone was just like, this is disgusting, I'm cancelling my subscription to the Free Speech Union.
He then backtracked and he was like, it's not our policy, you know, we don't agree with it.
And then everyone was like, well, what is your opinion on Sam then?
Where's your article where you're defending Sam's rights to freedom of speech?
Where's the other side?
You'll never guess what.
You'll never guess what.
They finally published a piece by one of their in-house propagandists, Ian Rons, saying, Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
Why jailing Sam Milia was wrong.
Oh, OK.
So we're getting a slide.
So finally, finally, they've decided to cover their arse and, you know, maybe defend free speech.
Well, he was convicted at the end of January and he was sent to prison three weeks ago.
So, you know, thanks for cobbling that together.
But yeah, I can't comment on that.
I'll have to read it.
But I mean, either way, I'm happy that they have put something out there because it's more publicity to the case, which is what we want.
Yes.
So the guy's name is David Hansard.
He's got a very, very low profile.
I mean, he's not a name I've come across before.
But if he's tweeting out... I mean, I would say that Hope Not Hate are a genuinely extremist group.
I mean, they really are kind of...
The kind of terror wing of the deep state, aren't they, in a way?
Yeah, they have literally encouraged violence before, and tweeted out the location of people before.
They've put up tweets about throwing tomatoes with razor blades at fascists, stuff like that.
They are a violent horrible, vile, lying organisation.
And they were stalking Sam.
I mean, they passed over a lot of information about Sam took counter-terrorism and the vast majority of it was just discarded because it was just rubbish.
But they wanted Sam to get convicted of terrorism.
They're horrible.
Laura, I'm looking at you and, you know, I've never met you before, but I don't, I'm not getting the vibe that you are a threat to our country.
And, and, and you know what, Even if you said, you know, horrible, nasty, racist words, I still don't think that would be enough justification for you to be targeted by men with knives wearing black balaclavas.
Which is what the Black Bloc do, which is what Antifa do.
And the idea that Hope Not Hate is essentially inciting violence.
That's what it's doing, isn't it?
By giving the address, giving the location of your protests.
I mean, I'm sure there's going to be people who say, oh, he didn't quiz Laura toughly enough on, you know, they are fascists and they're Islamophobic and anti-Semitic and all these words that we are presented with that give us a reason to close down free speech, you know, because suddenly, you know, you can't say that because he's Islamophobic, you can't say that because he's anti-Semitic.
I mean, I'm not... I think we live in a weird world, don't we?
Where people like you and Sam are being locked up... Well, Sam is being locked up for saying stuff that most people would think not that unreasonable.
Yeah, I mean, if you want to quiz me about anything by the way, nothing is off the table, I'm happy to answer any question, I've got nothing to hide.
But I am just a normal person who, you know, I've got a daughter, I've got another daughter coming in the middle of next month and I worry about the country that they're going to grow up in.
I want them to be able to be proud of who they are and have free speech.
I want them to be safe and away from, you know, ogling taxi drivers driving past them and trying to pick them up and stuff.
I want them to feel like they belong here and it's their homeland, not that they live somewhere else and they have to You know, feel unwelcome somewhere.
So that is what drives me and that is what drives Sam.
And I think the reason why Sam has had such a high profile response to his case, with many, many people talking about it, you know, there are groups that we don't necessarily get on with, like Britain First and Tommy Robinson and Anne-Marie Waters.
Everyone has come out and spoken up for Sam's right to freedom of speech.
And I think the reason why is partly because the stickers were just so tame, but also he's just a normal guy.
You know, he's a father.
Everyone who knows him says what a great friend he is.
He's a self-employed tradesman.
You know, he's a sign maker.
He does a few odd jobs and stuff.
He works hard, he provides for his family, he's a fantastic husband, a fantastic dad, and he's just so inoffensive in every way.
And if you're going to go against somebody like this just for raising awareness about things that are happening in our country, you know, nothing he's said is offensive, it's all defensive, defending himself.
If you're going to go against someone like this, they could come for any of us.
And PA, you know, we're put up there as these extremists and, you know, they always say, like, all, you know, young incels living in their mum's basement.
We're families, you know, we're men, women, children, grandmas, ex-veterans, all this kind of stuff, just normal people.
So yeah, I would hope that most normal people do look at me and think that I'm just a normal person and not an extremist or a terrorist, but that is definitely what they're trying to label us as.
Yes, I see that.
I mean, like two or three years ago, we might have had a different conversation.
For example, two or three years ago, I believed in the Muslim terror threat and by the way I'm not I'm not at all saying that the rape gangs don't exist in all our inner cities and that isn't evil but I don't I tend to think that most of the that the real reason that that
The real reason for these stories in the papers about Muslim terrorism is that it's divide and rule.
A lot of these attacks are orchestrated by MI5.
I'm not convinced that, I think false flags are the main thing.
Do you believe that they're carried out by, they're not carried out by patsies, but by genuinely dangerous Muslim terrorists?
Well, I would say that I don't trust the state and I think it's very important that we don't believe everything we read in the press.
Do your own research for anything and I'd always be open to having a conversation about something and looking at evidence but I do believe that there are Muslims out there who are blowing people up and do want to blow people up and kill people and stuff.
Lee Rigg, for example, I used to be in the Army Cadets and some of the people who went on to join the forces actually served with him and, you know, he was beheaded on the street, wasn't he?
Or almost beheaded.
They murdered him.
What's your response to that?
Would you say that?
Do you know what?
I don't know enough about the Lee Rigg.
I am now sceptical of everything.
Everything that we're told about the world.
Which is why, for example, you know, The whole idea about nationalism.
I used to be kind of flag-waving.
I used to think, you know, isn't it great the sun never set on the British Empire and what marvellous good we did to the world.
And now I kind of think, I still love my people.
I love this country.
I love the people.
But I don't love the people I have no longer any respect for the institutions, not for the monarchy, not for the church, not for even the great public schools anymore.
They've all gone woke and shit.
The city is deeply corrupt.
Lawyers don't do don't deal in justice.
Do you know what I mean?
I when I go to gatherings when I was on the freedom marches, for example, I loved meeting the people and and being with them and and and feeling this this wonderful sense of community and and I'm sure that that you feel the same way with you with with with your people, but I In order to get what I want, every institution would basically have to be destroyed and rebuilt from ground up because they are all so corrupt.
They've all been taken over by Satan, basically.
Does that sound extreme to you?
No, it doesn't.
I mean, even academia is corrupt.
I went to university myself.
I studied politics at uni and every single one of my tutors was left-wing.
And the way I got through that course was by focusing on class instead of race.
And then I was able to write things honestly about class and I graduated with a first.
But I think if I wrote about race in an honest manner, thank you, if I wrote about race in an honest manner, they would have just failed me because they were just massive, massive, massive lefties.
Obviously, the media is completely... I mean, it's a few companies that own every newspaper and they all push out the same narrative every time.
And then, obviously, we've got, like, all these charities and NGOs and the government institutions themselves, the TV.
Like, everything is just corrupt and broken.
I would like to see us rebuilding things from scratch.
If we ever win and we take over, everything just needs... Yeah, metaphorically burning to the ground and starting again, I think.
Well, yeah, that's it.
I mean, obviously one would want to keep the buildings intact, because some of them are quite nice.
I think I might remove all the sort of Freemasonic symbolism from them.
And I'm not into bloodbaths, so I wouldn't want that to happen either.
But I do think that things are so broken now that they cannot be fixed by man.
Because we're talking about not just decades, not just centuries, but millennia of corrupt rule by a class of people who are enthralled to the devil.
Yeah, well, that's a very powerful sentence.
I mean, I think, I do see public discourse moving in our direction and there are a lot of people talking about things that a few years ago they weren't talking about.
So, for example, I don't know if you know, like, Lotus Eaters and Sargon and that kind of crowd, We've always considered them to be a little bit weak and not address issues, honestly.
However, they've been speaking a lot about Sam recently.
I've been watching some of their shows and I'm like, oh wow, I didn't know that you guys thought that.
I didn't know that you guys were okay talking about that.
And I'm really impressed with how the Overton window has moved And how so many groups that were maybe a bit more civic nationalist a few years ago are openly talking about issues that were controversial then but they're not now.
Even going on a browse on Twitter and having a look through the trending topics and stuff, seeing mainstream pundits talking about nationalism openly, It's really great to see, so I do think that we do have a lot of the public on our side.
Whether we can convert that to some sort of action or not, I'm not sure.
I mean, it's a good thing that the Tories are absolutely destroyed at the moment, and I think a lot of people are moving away from Labour as well.
Maybe this is the beginning of the two-party system being destroyed, which is what I want to see.
I want to see people looking at alternatives.
I want smaller organisations that are more More what the public want.
I want them to be able to make some progress and, you know, the first step is to get rid of these two big parties, Labour and the Tories, and that's what I want to see, really.
Yeah.
I suppose the problem is that with an organisation like Patriotic Alternative is you automatically make yourself a target for the deep state.
They're going to destroy you.
I mean, I wonder whether I mean, I think, I think you're very brave, exposing yourself to the things you expose yourself to.
I mean, I think it's terrifying that you get Antifa coming at you with knives.
But I wonder whether you're just kind of unnecessarily exposing yourself and Sam to risks which are kind of not worth it.
I think if we do nothing and we just allow the inevitable to happen, that outcome will be a lot worse than what they could actually do to us today for speaking up.
You know, in England and Wales, the white British or the ethnic British, I'm just using the language from the census, we're around 75% at the moment.
It's dropping, it dropped from like 82% and then 87% and 94%.
So it's going to be before 2066 that we're a minority and We need to be acting fast and we need to be pushing back against this because when we're less than 50% of the population and then 40 and 30 and 20 it's going to be so hard to organise and it's going to be so unsafe and you know people who say well I won't be here so why do I care?
I just find that to be so cowardly and so weak because do you not care about your children or do you not care about other people's children?
Or the culture or the world?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I can't not do this because I would consider myself...
Weak, if I didn't... Even if I'm only having a very, very small impact, I would rather do that than do nothing.
And I don't want something bad to happen to my daughter, and then she says, like, why did you just stay silent?
Why did you just not do anything?
And then I was like, oh, well, you know, I didn't want to paint a target on my head.
I want to be able to say to her, I did everything that I could in my power to try and create something better.
And Sam feels that way as well, and Mark Collett feels that way, and many of us do.
And I do think that we will win in the end.
I do think that the British are just such a mighty ethnicity of people, or race of people, whatever you want to call us.
You know, we colonised the quarter of the globe, but all of the best inventions out there were created by British people.
I do have faith that there will be some bubbling beneath the surface and there will be some sort of Yeah, well my heart is totally with you and I really respect what you do.
I just think maybe it's going to get worse before it gets better.
Yeah.
Well, my heart is totally with you.
And I really respect what you do.
I just, I find it hard to get, I mean, the stuff you said about all the amazing inventions that we've done and stuff.
And I think, yeah, yeah, you know, the steam engine and stuff.
At the same time, I look at some of the figures that have been presented to us as heroes from history, and I realize they're working for the dark side.
Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin.
In fact, the whole of the Royal Society was basically Illuminati.
Where are you on the conspiracy stuff?
How far down the rabbit hole are you?
Um, well, I mean, the main conspiracy theory that I'm engaged in actively is obviously the Great Replacement Conspiracy Theory, which isn't a conspiracy theory at all.
That's not a conspiracy theory, is it?
It's demographic fact.
Well, I mean, they call it the Great Replacement Theory, don't they, and call it a conspiracy theory.
That's the main one that I'm engaged with, but some of the things that you've brought up during the stream is not really something that I've looked into or even really discussed with people, to be honest.
That's all right.
But you know about, I mean, it's called, is it called Kalergi Kudenhof Plan?
Yeah, yeah, Richard Van Kudenhof Kalergi, I'm aware of him.
And I read his book Practical Idealism, I think it's called.
But it must have been about seven or eight years ago now.
So I'm aware that he said, you know, the man of the future will be mixed race.
And he considered himself a mongrel.
That's the word that he used because he was mixed race.
And he promoted that ideology in a positive way, saying this is what the future will look like.
I mean, was it the Coffman Plan as well, which came out around World War Two, I think?
Which also promoted the same ideals for the future as well.
I mean, whether these books and these documents have actually Being used to create the future, I don't know.
I mean, I do know that these were very highly respected people and I do know that Winston Churchill actually wrote the introduction in Kalergi's book.
Did he?
I don't know anything about Kalergi.
Tell me about him.
Yeah, so he wrote a book called Practical Idealism.
It's been a long time since I read it unless I'm getting him confused with something else.
And he basically just said that the man of the future will be mixed race and it will create a race of people who are more easy to manage and there will be less conflict and all of this kind of stuff.
Now he was A very, very popular and well-respected guy by politicians and aristocrats and all this kind of thing.
Like I said, Winston Churchill wrote the foreword for his book.
So, you know, some people will say, well, it's just a book.
Others will say, well, you know, maybe they did look at that and text him a message.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There was the Coffman Plan as well.
I think that was, was that the Germany must perish plan?
Where they were talking about breeding ethnic Germans out of existence following on from the Second World War because they didn't want nationalism to rise again like it did in Germany.
So there are multiple things like this out there.
Yeah, exactly.
I think it's, You smell a rat when they, the people who kind of attempt to control public debate, are branding as conspiracy theory something which somebody actually wrote down in a book with a foreword by Winston Churchill.
You can't make that up.
I bet that book is not easy to get a hold of, and you're probably one of the very few people who's actually read it.
I take your word for it without having read the book that this is what it says.
It's only a very short book.
Yeah, I read it, it must have been like 2016 or something.
But you can find like the important paragraphs from it just online if you just Google the clergy plan, what is it?
It's all out there.
I think the Wikipedia page is probably quite true about it as well.
I know we can't trust Wikipedia.
Definitely don't trust Patriotic Alternatives Wikipedia page.
But I think that's quite accurate for his book if I remember correctly.
Yeah.
Well, I think sometimes people are so... where I can sort of offer a different angle of attack for you, because I'm a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist loon, you know, so I don't trust anything.
But most people can't take a step back from the brainwashing process to which they're subject every day, every second, because most people watch TV and TV is just the enemy.
But any rational person comparing TV and cinema adverts, for example, today, with ones from 30 years ago, would notice that every couple on every advert were either mixed race, or black, or, you know, they're not white, basically.
That doesn't reflect the demographic mix of the country at the moment.
If you looked at adverts, you would believe that the country was much more non-white than it actually is.
And given that we know about how the advertising industry works and how it's about mind manipulation, you know, it was devised ultimately Edward Bernays, who was Freud's nephew.
So, these people are expert at mind manipulation.
So, it seems to me that the very fact that adverts do this is evidence of an intention by the powers that be to, well, to wage war on white people, on white culture.
It's like de facto evidence, isn't it?
Yeah, well I think just like with the media where the newspapers are owned by a certain few groups, I think when it comes to advertising there are a few powerful groups owned by certain people who have a big say there.
I'm not sure if they have diversity quotas when it comes to adverts or if people get cheaper deals if they use certain mixtures in their adverts.
There's probably financial implications as well, but I think it is to sort of make us think that that's what it's like out there.
When it's not, I definitely think it's not just based on money, it's based on changing public opinion and obviously you mentioned Edward Bernays who put cigarettes into the mouths of women to popularise them.
make them fashionable and it's it's about influencing us as a people now I haven't looked at the census for 21 but for 2011 I think it's only it was 4% of people were in a mixed-race relationship that will have gone up for the 21 census but even if it's census even if it's doubled and it's around 8% it's not every single couple is it But if you look at the adverts, it's usually white woman with a black man.
And I think it's when you see it again and again and again and again, you start to think that that's normal, when in reality, most people don't race mix.
A lot of people say that they would.
But then if you look at what they're actually doing, most people tend to get into relationships with somebody of their own race.
And there's definitely a push to try and normalise it.
But even with the families that they show on adverts, it sometimes will just be a full family that's Muslim or a full family that's black.
And again, it's not representative of the public.
We're still 75% white in England and Wales and more than that in the whole of Great Britain.
The adverts don't reflect the true diversity of the country.
I don't agree with diversity quotas anywhere, but if they did, they would be a lot more white.
Did you see it?
I'm sure you didn't see it.
There was a Doctor Who episode where In the run-up to Christmas, where David Tennant came back as Doctor Who.
And it ended up with David going to the home of his adopted family.
It was like, you know, people of all colours and creeds holding hands under the rainbow.
They had all that, plus they had a transgender thing.
I don't know whether it was man or woman, you know, whatever.
And the BBC is particularly, I think, guilty of this, but you find it across the board.
So you see it in series like Bridgerton, where they try and reinvent Jane Austen's England as something where the Queen was black, for example.
Or even earlier than that, you have series where, was it Anne Boleyn, I think, was black?
Yeah, she was black recently, wasn't she?
Yeah.
I mean, they truly are rewriting history.
And when you think about the generations that have had a piss-poor education in our increasingly bad education system.
And do they know any better?
I mean, they're just going to take their cues from the TV, aren't they?
They're going to imagine that that was how the past was.
God, I mean I would hope that people are educated enough to the level that they know that Anne Boleyn wasn't black.
No, no Laura.
I mean in a way it's a compliment to us because they don't create anything of their own, they just co-opt our things and it's not just fictional characters anymore, it's real historical people like you say.
It is a compliment to us but it's also an attack because it's a rewriting of our history and I don't have a TV in my house because I just can't, I just find it infuriating.
But I do go round to my grandma's a couple of times a week and she'll have TV on and she just sits there shouting at the TV and I'm like, just get rid of the TV or turn it off.
Like the soaps, I don't know if you ever watch Eastenders or Coronation Street, sometimes I catch a bit of those.
Oh, tell me about it, what happens?
They're just so bad.
Well, at the same time, they both ran a story about a right-wing terrorist planning to blow up some building because it's right-wingers that are doing that, isn't it?
And they took some of our talking points, you know, like about the red squirrel being native to Britain and wanting to protect it.
They took some of that and they were putting those words like normal arguments, reasonable arguments into the mouths of these right-wing terrorists who then went on to blow up some building.
And then, of course, you know, you've got the demographics.
I think in Emmerdale, which is set in a Yorkshire village, which in real life would be completely white, maybe one or two foreign people there.
It's like half foreign.
I think the vicar is like some gay black guy or something and they're all in interracial relationships and there's transgender people.
And, yeah, it's just...
I can't watch TV.
We've not got one in our house and haven't had one for a long time now.
I've got an iPad, so I sometimes watch a film or I'll watch like a TV show that I like.
I like Hannibal, that's a good TV show, but I can't just flick through the channels.
You like Hannibal?
It's just rubbish.
The TV show, yeah, I love the TV show Hannibal.
That's trying to make serial killers sexy and cool.
Yeah, he may kill and eat people, but he's a good guy because he gets into the mind of other serial killers.
Is that how it works?
It is, isn't it?
In the TV show, he's definitely not a good guy.
He's a very, very manipulative person.
But it's just done so well.
It's got Mads Mikkelsen playing Hannibal.
I love him.
I love him too.
Just a very good cast.
It's really good.
I would recommend it.
It's a very intelligent show.
And it's done very, very well.
But there is diversity in that.
So like Jack Crawford, It's Lawrence Fishburne.
He's playing Jack Crawford, who obviously in the books was white.
They've made him black.
I mean, he does a good job of it.
Every now and again when you have something like that, I don't mind because I do think he was cast for his skill rather than his race.
But it's just when it's non-stop, you know, it's just constant all the time and it's everything you look at, it's annoying.
But Hannibal is very good if anyone is looking for a TV show.
Dune 2.
It was in Dune 2.
June Part 2.
No, it hasn't.
They've workified that.
I haven't seen the first one either.
They've changed the race of the love interest and they've changed the plot so that she's more significant in it.
It goes on and on.
It goes on and on.
Is it that Zendaya or something?
That model that's playing?
Oh, I don't know the names.
I don't know the names of any young people.
I just think they're a plague.
I mean, you'll find this when you get older, Laurie.
You just won't know, like, who the characters are.
I was doing this pub quiz the other day and we were given this, you've got to go soon because you've got to go back to your episode, but I was given a sheet of all these photographs of these people from the telly box or from the world of sport.
And my team was winning at that point and then I looked at this list.
I thought we were all we were all of us.
I was the youngest person and I'm 58 and there were people in their sort of 70s and we just didn't know who these people were.
It was and we were proud.
We were proud to lose at that point.
Anyway, Laurie, it's been really good talking to you.
I'm glad we got you on the podcast at last.
I suppose people can't find you.
I was going to say, where can they find you?
But you've been banned and cancelled and everything.
Have you?
Yeah, well we have Telegram, we have Telegram channels on there, so I'm under Laura Towler, so if people want to check out my channel, and obviously there's Patriotic Alternative and Matt Collett, we're all on Telegram.
We do have a website, patrioticalternative.org.uk.
I would ask, if this is not a little bit too cheeky, if anybody would like to write a letter to Sam, He's locked in his cell for 22 hours a day.
If you go to the Patriotic Alternative website, there is a page on there called A Plan for Sam.
I think it's the second image that scrolls across on the homepage.
You can get Sam's address on there.
And if you just want to write him a letter, even if you disagree with him, and just say, you know, I've seen your case and these are my thoughts.
You should be there for 10 years, not Yeah, yeah.
At least give him something to do.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, if you just want to write a letter of support to him.
Yeah, I'm just sure that he'd love that because he says that it's keeping him going, you know, all the letters and stuff that he's getting.
So yeah, if anyone would like to just let Sam know that they disagree with the verdict and they're thinking about him or whatever.
Or they could write to ask him where he's planning to blow up next.
Because that would be useful, wouldn't it?
That one might get intercepted on the way in, so don't expect a response.
Dear Sam, I'm going shopping at the Bullring next week.
No, it's not the Bullring anymore.
Can you confirm you're not going to blow it up?
Well, Laura, it's been great talking to you and yes, send our love to Sam.
I mean, he shouldn't be in prison.
He really shouldn't.
I don't think that's a controversial position.
I really do not think that Sam really should be in prison.
I think he should be out looking after you as a proper man should and his young daughter and his baby.
That's the right thing.
It only remains for me to thank my beloved viewers and listeners for watching.
If you want early access to my stuff, Please subscribe to my, you know, as a paying subscriber, you get early access to Substack, Subscribestar, Locals, Patreon.
My website, jamesdenningpole.co.uk.
You can buy me a coffee.
And, yeah, keep watching and, oh, and support my sponsors.
My sponsors are lovely and they support me, so you should support them and they do good product.
Laura Towler, thank you for being a great guest.
Thank you so much for having me.
I've really enjoyed the conversation.
Looking forward to sharing it with people as well.
