James and Tania wax lyrical, the residual and the spiritual.
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Welcome to The Delling Pod with me, James Delling Pod.
I know I always say I'm excited about this big special guest, but I really am, actually.
Welcome back to The Delling Pod, Tanya.
Tanya Edwards, you're kind of playing the role of a female dick, which is an honour, by the way.
I mean, there is no higher honour than being, you know, a female dick.
So, I don't even know what we're going to talk about.
What's annoying you or delighting you at the moment about this crazy, messed up world we're living in?
I don't get it anymore, James.
I know that there are things that we're supposed to be doing to prepare, but I don't really see how you can.
I think it's going to be about self-control.
I was in Tesco, as we know.
Unforgivable.
But they have this sort of pen that they've made.
And they have one member of staff just sort of watching everybody in the pen.
A literal pen.
And nothing really works.
Oh, I know the pen, yes.
There's a new pen in... Our waitress has got a pen area now.
A sort of containment pen.
Yes, with a gate.
For the tills?
Yeah, and there's a guard or, you know, the staff as they used to be known, watching everybody, waiting for somebody to lose their temper.
And sometimes they do.
The other day I saw this guy go completely crazy because he was convinced that someone had stolen his telephone.
And he was going mad and it became...
A race thing.
He was convinced it was because he was black.
Oh no.
I was the only white person there.
And we got crosser and crosser and crosser.
And there was this one kind lady who started calling his telephone.
And she said, well, I can hear it ringing.
I can hear you.
And he was going mad.
So there's someone in here that's stolen my phone, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And they went on all these different rants.
And then, while he was ranting, this little security guy looked in his own shopping bag and saw that he put his phone in his bag of goods.
And then he had to sort of apologize to everybody.
I was laughing so hard.
But what I mean is that everybody's on edge.
And they're on edge because they have to do everything for themselves and nothing really works.
And there's no one to help them.
Nothing works.
This is what I've noticed, that particularly, well, I mean, particularly, everything doesn't work, but deliveries, the number of deliveries that fail, that for various reasons, like the other day, the wife had some flowers sent to her.
Not from me, obviously, I would never do such a thing, but no.
I haven't been having an affair.
Some flowers arrived from somebody who she'd done something for, and they were lovely, lovely flowers.
The problem was that the person who dropped them off did not take the trouble to knock on the door and say, I've delivered some flowers for you.
And it was on the night, one of the two nights we've had recently, where it was minus five.
So you have these flowers that sat outside and all the water in the bottom that they're sitting in froze.
And I'm looking at the roses this morning and they've all been blasted as they would be by minus five.
And you're thinking, can these delivery depots not brief the drivers?
Look, do try and make contact with the people to whom you are delivering.
It's a courtesy.
I had a book delivered in a puddle.
I was in.
They just put it in a puddle.
But I shouldn't use Amazon.
This is just a message.
And for the reason it being minus five, by the way, I just woke up my tortoise.
My son's tortoise.
What do you mean you woke him up?
Well, because he's hibernating for 12 weeks, but I've woken him up a week early because you touch their little feet and they move them to show that they're still alive and he was frozen solid and I thought that he was dead.
And he wasn't, but I was so worried I just brought him in early.
So that's horrible.
So he was really, he was just like in a deep, deep, deeper sleep than ever we can know until we die.
Yes.
And you brought him up by touching his toes.
Well, no, that doesn't wake him.
The thing is, you tickle the toes, they move, then you leave them alone.
You're just proving to yourself that they're alive.
But his toes were rigid and icy, and I thought, he's dead.
And then when he eventually moved, I thought it's all too much for me, I brought him in.
I shouldn't have done it, but I did.
Do you know, I'm the only person you know, and probably the only person who's ever listening to this podcast or ever that you've met, who has ridden on the back of a giant tortoise.
As in, not just sat on it, because anyone can do that, but actually sat on top of a giant tortoise and the tortoise has moved a hundred yards.
You are great at living, James, but I still think that's... In 1973, in the Seychelles, a giant tortoise, and I would have been eight.
Ah, okay, so not recently.
I don't know how much weight a giant tortoise can carry, but they might just go, if an adult sat on one, they might just go, I'll sod this, I'm not designed to carry, you know.
You don't have a giant tortoise, something to aspire to.
No, no, no.
I want to tell you about, because you were talking about how the answer is to disengage from the world, which I think is true.
I had an accidental normie experience the other day.
I went over to the stables which hars out the harlings for hunting and these Americans had come over.
from the borders of Maryland and Pennsylvania.
And that should have been the clue to me, I think, because I think those are known to be what the Americans call blue states, not red states.
Anyway, they were clearly moneyed.
The matriarch had 4,000 acres, which I suppose in American terms is not that much, but I think it's a fair amount, isn't it?
And they were in the horse racing business, which again I think is probably quite lucrative.
And mention was made of the DuPonts.
They were on sort of familiar terms.
So we're talking sort of upper American elite-ish class.
You're moving in the right circles.
Well, no, they were totally the wrong circles, obviously, because I got chatting to them over lunch and they were asking, what do you do?
And I said, well, I do these podcasts and I used to be mainstream media journalist, but then I went on this journey.
I lost my faith.
And I started telling the story.
About what it was that had sent me down the rabbit hole and it was the stolen presidential election.
I mean, I explained, I used to be a fan of Donald Trump at the time and I was expecting him to win a second.
I was in the middle of the anecdote and I suddenly realized halfway through that I was talking to massive, massive Biden fans.
Democrats, through and through, would never consider voting any other way.
Democrats are the goodies, Republicans are the baddies.
And, of course, they didn't believe the election had been stolen, and they didn't believe that Biden had fathered a child molesting pervert, and that Biden himself was a child master and senile and incontinent.
I didn't put in these details, but I could have done, you know, and it was implicit in what I was saying.
Yeah, I just sort of lightly mentioned my mystification at the fact that this guy, whose minders felt he was unfit to go on the campaign trail, somehow managed to beat the most popular president in recent history.
Anyway, halfway through the episode I realised my mistake and the matriarch in particular looked at me daggers like I was just like evil and she said something like, I never believed I would hear Uh, uh, somebody who, uh, abroad defending Donald Trump.
It was something to that effect.
And I realized that I'd made a massive faux pas and they tried and one of her sons or children tried to change the subject by saying, do you like sport?
And I said, no, I don't like sport.
It's bread and circuses.
Um, but the, the thing was, I don't even want to get involved in conversations about politics, Democrat v Republican or Left v Right or Conservative v Labour.
I don't believe in these things anymore and I realised that I'd been sucked briefly back into the world of normies who really care about these things.
And she was talking about Trump with such visceral hatred.
And she was blaming him for things that he couldn't possibly have been responsible for because he's been out of the picture for the last four years.
But still, everything that was wrong with America rankled with her.
But he is responsible for sweeping in a huge swathe of a population that would otherwise have said no to the nonsense.
That was his purpose.
I think it's more I think it's bizarre that if you were a Democrat you wouldn't find Biden objectionable as the guy on your ticket.
Yes.
But I think it's even stranger that people don't seem to realise that we're heading towards global governance and that all of this stuff is just an illusion of participation that is part of the great deceit.
You know when David Miliband was sort of promoted out of UK politics into running some global organisation in New York?
Yeah.
It's perceived as if he... I think it's called International Rescue.
It's like Thunderbirds.
Yes, but this is where the power is, and this is where the money is, and this is where the law is going.
And even speaking to someone like my father, who's massively anti-Trump, which is fine because it's just a participation in theatre, and people are just choosing who to boo at.
It's irrelevant, really.
But he was talking about how things weren't working here, or maybe the UN would step in, as if the solution to things is to put power further and further away from us.
And I think that the harder things are to make function on a very basic, intimate level, the more you want to Delegate to someone so far away, you can give them attributes you would never give to somebody you could see.
It was Chesterton, I think, that said you should have a politician close enough to kick him.
And I do believe that.
You know, there should be some sort of threat that if you don't follow through on what your promises are, that there will be repercussions.
And there are no repercussions left.
Nobody really wants them because that would require that they had to have an opinion and they want an opinion but only one that doesn't affect them in any way and that couldn't possibly affect them.
It is absurd anyway for us to be arguing about a US president when we have some some globo guy put into our own government who's never been voted, who pretended his own wife wasn't a resident when he was living in number 11.
It's so palpably absurd to care about another country's politics when we can't even You know, do anything ourselves.
It's really bizarre.
I don't understand it.
I can't be bothered with it.
It makes me angry.
It doesn't even make me angry!
I agree.
I want to... No, fret not thyself because of the ungodly.
For soon they shall be cut down like the grass and be withered even as the green herb.
Just remember that.
Well...
Yes, a little while and the ungodly shall be gone.
Shall be, sorry, shall be clean gone.
Thou shalt look after his place and he shall be away.
It's all going to be okay.
Anyway, I wanted to pick you up on that, on a couple of points there.
I think that that's... What?
Don't you think that that could include us?
By that I mean... No.
Oh well, that's good.
No.
No, I really don't.
There's an order of difference between sacrificing children to Satan and rising to the top of the beast system and being a kind of honest Christian trying to do your best by God, trying to live a good life and in any way accepting that you're saved.
No, I don't think that we're in the same league, honestly Tanya.
But anyway, I'm not going to give you that point.
I'm not asking for the point, I'm just thinking that what do we have to do then just to not completely absolve ourselves of any responsibility on the assumption that it will all be taken care of itself?
I understand you've got a sort of community that will be able to withstand things because you've built it, but certainly I'm still in the city where everything's completely atomised and It's going to be very hard later on to not make compromises.
I was thinking about how relatively easy it was to not wear a mask and stuff.
It was really easy here because things were local.
But now that everything is being delegated outwards, I think that the next time rules and stuff are imposed, it's going to be harder to say no.
Not because you won't say no, but I think it would be easier for people to fine you, to punish you, I don't, I don't, what do you think of this disease X?
It's just bollocks.
Well, obviously it's, it's nonsense, but it is clever how the, the, I don't know if it's me cause I'm not on Twitter enough, but on Twitter they have the X. You mean flex?
Yeah.
So they have, but they have the X flash up before you can see the Twitter now.
And it's, it's this constant, um, training of the mind because we have X for everything, X rated, X marks the spot, X, The disease X, and now we have X, everyone's even going to be talking about X on X. It's so ubiquitous that I feel I'm being prepared for something that I don't like.
You are.
But Tanya, look, you've gotten in the way of my digression, which I was going to nip in earlier on.
We can come back to this.
I mean, I think things are obviously going to get worse, but in a different way, I think, from the way you've described it so far.
The point about how delegating to these remote, remote authorities like the UN and you're talking about programming.
Have you thought about this?
Did you see the interview that was posted on X the other day?
An old interview with Gene Roddenberry, the creator of Star Trek.
And you know what the brief was?
The purpose of Star Trek was?
It was to get the population, get the populace ready for the idea of world government, of the United Nations.
That was the underlying message of the series.
Gene Roddenberry was also a Satanist.
He was asked by the interviewer, you know, So, have you got any tips on life?
To what do you owe your success?
He says, well, Satan, mainly.
And she goes, yeah, oh, Satan, right.
OK.
And he says, yeah, Satan taught me everything I know.
He taught me to lie, which is very helpful with my wife and my relationship with my wife.
He taught me how to lie to my wife.
And he was completely matter of fact about this.
And the interview was remarkably non...
Non, nonplussed by this.
But I was thinking at the same time, do you... When you're as open about... What?
Don't you think it's odd that when you're as open about something as that, the perception that people have is that you're a really honest guy.
In other words, he's being so frank about it that instead of people having a feeling of distrust, they think, oh my God, this guy's so open, he's explaining everything, he's so honest.
So you can, if you say clearly... He's my kind of Satanist.
Yes!
So people leave thinking, wow, that's so refreshing that someone is happy to lay out their belief system.
And then if you were to say to the same person later, or that guy is a Satanist, they say, oh no, I saw him in an interview.
He was really clear.
He was really open.
And so they can't hear something if it's said in a way that doesn't suit their understanding of what that might be.
It's a bit like... Yeah.
The whole idea that you can save the planet, for example, without reducing population, if population is what is causing the planet harm...
The idea that all of these different things that were being sold are clearly incompatible with each other.
So I think that the idea that the ends and the stated causes are not the same thing should be really obvious to everybody.
If you're trying to save the planet, you're not trying to save Granny.
If you're trying to save Granny, then you're not so worried this week about whatever else it is.
But I think that people take at face value I mean, literally people cheer for the devil or make the signs of the devil and sing along with the devil and then watch all of the symbolism and then say, but that's just theatre.
They hear such mad contradictions and they repeat them and they don't understand that there's any kind of contradiction.
Have you seen that series Lucifer?
Oh no, I don't see anything.
Okay.
There's a TV series, I think it's on Netflix or something similar, where Lucifer is the hero and he is Lucifer.
He's a bit of a naughty chap, but basically he's charming and stuff.
And you think, they are so flagrant about this stuff now.
To your point about the devil signs that were a staple of, I mean, always were a staple of heavy metal shows, and the audience all making the two horn signs back to Lemmy or whoever was doing it on stage.
And I've seen Twitter discussions of, also ex-discussions of this, where people say, yeah, but it was just a thing that people did.
You know, it was, it didn't mean anything.
And you're thinking, signs always have meanings.
That's the whole point.
We're ruled by symbols and signs.
So the question then is, do the signs still have meaning if you don't realise what you're doing?
And I think that they do, and as much as the people that do know what they're doing are having all of that energy from you.
So there's something in a ritual.
It's like a good habit.
A good habit, you know, walking, has an effect on you, whether or not you're doing it on purpose.
And it's a bit like all of the COVID rituals had an impact on people, even if they weren't really believing in them.
By the way, that has not gone away in other places.
My brother is in New Zealand and they spent all Christmas testing themselves and reporting back that they had COVID, even though they were all in fine form, going fishing, going to parties, just avoiding certain people or places that they thought they might make ill.
In full health, in full health.
It's so bizarre.
The first thing my stepfather said to me when he came...
The first thing my stepfather said to me when he came to my house at Christmas was, oh, I was so ill with COVID, thank God for my vaccine, otherwise I could have been taken off this mortal coil.
Those are his first words as he came in.
So I don't think anybody... Did he actually use the phrase, this mortal coil?
He said, taken off from here.
By which, he just lost the words, mortal coil.
Taken off, is what he said.
And I mean, that was how Christmas opened for me, which was fine.
But I don't think anybody is on our level, and it's quite strange.
I know a lot of people had a stressful Christmas because they'd forgotten that other loved ones were so deeply entrenched still in this idea that there was something.
This is the problem!
We have forgotten that when the next thing happened... We forget!
Yeah, and if people can't accept now that they were lied to, they are not going to accept that the next one is a lie.
They just won't be able to.
It's much more fundamental than we realize to make people understand that the last few years wasn't a mistake.
I even read somewhere about intelligent design.
It was saying that obviously the correct response here is that there is no pattern in evolution and there is no final purpose.
What they took umbrage to was the idea that even evolution could have some sort of specific path.
Everything had to be sort of random.
And I thought it's interesting because there obviously is the same idea that's being pushed in our politics that everything is random, sort of happens by accident, only makes sense at the end.
And it's obviously a lie.
And that's the big problem.
Have you read The Great Taking yet?
Yeah, I'm doing a podcast with him next week.
It's good so far.
It's a bit like all of those other books though that just show you this is all of the legislation that's been put into place to rob you.
And it's all there.
This is why I've got no patience.
I have no patience for the time will tell.
People in our, there are sort of fair weather people who sort of, you know, follow my podcast and stuff who nevertheless like to dispute the idea that all this is achingly predictable.
And that these are bad actors.
They go with your coincidence theory.
They go with your, oh, it's just incompetence.
And when we say no, we know exactly what's happening.
They say, well, time will tell.
No time, time, time.
You don't need time to tell.
We already know.
But this is why I think that they might accidentally have a point.
Did I tell you before that I work with a woman who called the police on her neighbours for having a barbecue?
Did I tell you this?
She sounds great.
I must have told you this, hopefully not on the last podcast.
It takes real courage to ring up the police and stop your neighbours from having a barbecue.
But this is the weirdest thing.
So I just saw this on Facebook.
So she was reporting in real time on Facebook, oh my God, my neighbours have got their family around.
The children are playing with the grandparents.
I'm not even kidding.
What?
And she was really upset about it.
And people were saying under her post, this is appalling.
What are you going to do?
And she was clearly, genuinely panicking.
And by the end, when I saw it, I was thinking, just close your curtains.
You know, spying on people.
But by the end of this exchange, she had called the police on her neighbours and fortunately saved the world by having this barbecue broken up and everybody sent home.
And then... Did the roses turn up?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that was that.
And even friends of my mother, they got busted for having people over.
But the weirdest thing was, is that she became one of the first people to start reposting things that I was sharing about all of the lies of the Covid situation.
And I wrote to her and I said, To be frank, how is it that you, who did this terrible, evil thing, are one of the first people to understand that this is a scam?
And she basically said it's because she did that evil thing.
And then after this, she started to pay more attention and she felt that she was being conned and scammed.
And basically it was her conscience that woke her up enough to start paying more attention.
And I've really been dwelling on this because I think it's the whole point of the resurrection story.
Well, not the whole point, obviously, but the idea that the mass chooses, they're literally given the choice.
Do you want to kill the bad thing or do you want to kill the good thing?
And they choose to kill the good thing.
But by killing or trying to kill the good thing, your conscience wakes up and it literally resurrects the good again.
It just comes alive.
Because you've made an impact on yourself that you didn't mean to have.
And that's why I do think that the accident theorists have a point.
And that's that the conscience, the human conscience, can't be predicted.
So what I worry about when I watch somebody watching everybody in the pen in the supermarket, for example, is that I think so many people can betray themselves by losing their temper or losing their
Self-control in a way that's going to exacerbate their problems, but I also think So all of those things can be predicted and they can be watched all of our behavior is being watched even every time we go on the internet how we react to things how quickly we tap on things when we're annoyed all of our you know, everything that we do to do with our shopping or our finances or Physical health everything is being tracked.
But what can't be tracked is the soul and The reason it can't be tracked is because I don't think it necessarily wakes up always until somebody's done something bad.
I think that the conscience is unpredictable.
Do you know that Victorian picture, the awakening conscience?
I think it's a Pre-Raphaelite picture.
I don't know.
It's a man with, he's got these sort of mutton chop, I think, whiskers and he's a young chap and he clearly wants to shag this woman and she's, I think, she's sitting on his lap and there's this look in her eyes where she's suddenly realised...
I'm about to become a fallen woman and her conscience is awakening.
But I like that story, Tanya, that you told me.
I mean, that's really good, isn't it?
That's exactly the kind of thing that we Christians like to hear because it sort of confirms our view of the world that actually people can see the light.
But are no more worrying?
I don't want a worrying idea.
Is it a friendly one?
Yeah, come on, blackpoll me again after whitepolling me.
Yep, go on.
Never mind.
My best friend on the circuit, he volunteered to be a helper at the beginning of the crisis.
He was one of the first people that wanted to do something useful when we all thought that there was a pandemic.
You know all of these NHS volunteers?
So we had all of the hospitals that were built and all of the people that were volunteering but nothing was actually ever required because obviously there was nothing to require anybody.
Now I was with him years later when the vaccine was being rolled out and he got a message in front of me from this app that he'd signed up to asking if he wanted to become a vaccinator.
And I thought, this is extraordinary.
And he laughed at it because he was saying, by the way, he took the vaccine and everything.
He completely believes in the whole shebang.
But he laughed at the idea that his goodwill from no years earlier would still be valid or redeemable to go and vaccinate people because he was no longer willing to offer services because he'd moved on.
But I thought it's incredible because they have this database of people that wanted to participate.
And from that database, all of the most insane people.
were ready and available to then participate in the next stage, which was as a vaccinator.
So they know even who the most crazy people are.
And they've now used them to do the next stage.
And now they are even more embedded in the scenario.
For all of those people, let's say it was 100,000 people that said yes.
Let's say it was 50,000.
That is a small army of people That believe in something so firmly that now if you were to tell them that they killed people by vaccinating them, they would not be able to accept it.
They are now absolutely primed to deliver any sort of agenda because to not do so would be I don't know how your conscience can be pricked then without you actually having a nervous breakdown.
I met one guy who's working on the Mydazolam case.
He used to be a drug dealer.
And he was a drug dealer until he got stabbed and lost everything and ended up in a hospital.
And he was quite philosophical about it all.
He said, well, you know, they've been murdering people with my dad's land, but then I murdered lots of people with my drug selling.
And I think that this is my chance to redeem myself.
So I think if somebody is given a chance to redeem themselves, then they might be able to accept that it's a lie.
But I don't think all of those thousands of people that participated at every level up In a really direct way, so an unqualified person that never thought to imagine what they were actually doing, thought that they were helping somebody.
If you told them that they killed a load of people, I don't know how they could compute that, because I don't see how they could see a way of redeeming themselves.
They could only...
You have to have your conscience.
You have to really take responsibility for the things that you did wrong.
And I don't know how those people could take responsibility for such a massive thing.
I don't see how they could just not want to pass it off onto all of the people that lied to them.
And there's a lot of those people that really did evil stuff.
And their only option, possibly, like a bad gig, is to double down, I think.
I'm worried about this.
Yeah, well, one can worry about them, but worrying is not going to… I mean, we have to accept… Say it loosely, James.
I'm not actually lying awake at night worrying about them.
I'm just saying… No, no.
But you know what I'm saying?
We have to accept that the vast majority of people are going to remain unenlightened and What's more, and I think maybe we should, I'm just wondering whether we've got time to talk about this before my statutory coffee and cigarette break that I warned you about, but I'll tell you where I think we're going with all this.
I mean, in a way, the conversation we've had so far has been about We could have said this at any time in the last year or so, but I think that what I'm starting to notice now is this division among people who are aware of what was going on in the past, you know, who are aware about the vaccines, who are aware about the Ukraine psyop and aware about stuff.
And I think the ultimate division between us is a spiritual one.
Because I think that what's happening next is that the move from the revelation of all the terrible satanic things that have been going on.
You saw this, for example, the story about the tunnels, the child trafficking tunnels underneath the synagogue in Brooklyn.
The story about the tunnels underneath the John Paul Getty Museum.
Stuff is starting to come out and we think that we are winning.
But actually, this is in order that the next stage of the satanic plan comes to fruition, which is that people are led towards the false light of sort of false god white hats like Donald Trump.
These people are going to be presented to us as our saviour, when in fact this is the next stage of the agenda.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Yeah, well I do think that sometimes when I'm not looking at the situation in Gaza, I think that two things happen when things are revealed.
The first is that it's profoundly poisonous to dwell on child trafficking, whether or not you're trying to stop it or whether or not you are repelled by it.
It's a poisonous idea for the soul.
And I think if I look at the situation in Gaza, the obvious possibility there is that it gets so horrific that the only option is to have some kind of international court
Arbitrate on it and that would be very handy wouldn't it to have if you already have all of the legal Regulations in place to take over the entire world's financial system if you then have as an international court that can That is has even more powers to say what should be morally acceptable or
I think it's furthering a much wider agenda than the obvious, sadly.
Well, yeah, yeah.
So there's the sort of the straightforward geopolitical thing of the Netanyahu regime wants a greater Israel, as they've had done for a long time.
They want to completely clear Gaza of Palestinians.
I mean, that's always part of the plan.
They get access to the gas field.
So that's the geopolitical explanation.
He's committed a great crime against his own people.
He sold his own people to Pfizer.
And I think that the idea that he didn't, he was the only person on earth who didn't realize what he was doing.
Is absolutely, again, integral to the idea that he might be doing any of this for the benefit of his people.
Because obviously someone that's just poisoned their population is not then trying to save them a few weeks later.
But this is why... By the way, I think that this is what ultimately cost me London calling.
That I... I got... It was... I haven't mentioned this before, but Sodom.
I had a chat with our producer and he was... Sorry?
Well, I mean, London Calling was coming to a close.
London Calling was coming to a close anyway, right?
Because Toby and I couldn't agree on anything.
But I had a conversation with the producer and I said, why did you put out that tweet about, you know, announcing the closure of the show?
Why didn't you at least consult me and talk to me about it?
I'm not violently objecting but it's a weird announcement.
And he said, you've got to understand the advertisers.
And I said, well, what?
What about the advertisers?
He said, you know what you said.
And I was sort of racking my brain to think which of the many things I've said on my podcast might have been the kind of the ne plus ultra of- Trigger.
Of awfulness that would, the trigger.
And what I reckon it was, was my, I mean, eminently provable and actually uncontentious The Netanyahu regime killed far more Israelis using the jibby jab than this incursion that they effectively invited from Hamas, which they control, across the border.
I mean, it seems to be a no-brainer.
But there are some things you can't say.
Yeah, if people believe in a pandemic and they believe that a vaccine materialised to save them, they can't get that, can they?
And fundamentally, if you can pretend that that's not the case, then you can believe all of your old paradigms about people destroying other peoples for your protection.
And it's the same instinct that humans have, the fear instinct that justifies these wild measures.
So by any rational analysis, it would be absurd to treat every single human being on Earth.
This was the stated aim of Boris Johnson.
It would be absurd to vaccinate every human being on Earth with the same medication.
That would be absurd.
If we can't even walk into a restaurant without being asked about allergies, which is another psyop, but if we can't even go into a restaurant without having our food requirements checked, how could we possibly think a small child in Bangladesh and an 83-year-old woman in Luton need the same medication for something of which they're not at the same risk, that isn't in the same province?
It's obviously palpably absurd.
So, It's in the same way that obviously, whoever's side you're on, obviously to stop a terrorist threat, you wouldn't annihilate a whole population.
It wouldn't be a rational response.
Even if everything was true, as it was being stated, and even if it was moral, even if it was a moral idea, which is clearly not a moral idea, because in everything you have rules of law, rules of engagement, You might want vengeance, but it's for somebody else to say, calm down.
If something happened to my child, no one would be able to stop me seeking my revenge, but they certainly shouldn't cheer me on.
Because you can see morally that somebody could go completely crazy if that happened.
But these sort of insane, massive ideas to respond to a problem are They're all the same.
They're so wildly big.
It's such a crazy, irrational idea that one thing could work to solve the ostensible problem.
The only way they're irrational is because they're frightened, I think.
I hold the media.
I mean, I look at the newspapers now, aghast, like the Telegraph, which used to be the paper I worked for for years, and every week they have, in the comment articles, they have an article by
Richard Kemp, who's an ex-military man, I think he was a regimental commander or something, a battalion commander in Iraq.
And you've got Con Coughlin, who's the sort of the long-standing defence correspondent.
And every week, they write a piece saying, we need to send more arms to fight Putin.
The war is going well against you.
Ukraine is almost winning one last push.
Or Israel is our bastion of democracy in the East.
We must bomb the hell out of these evil terrorists and, you know, more action needed now.
Nobody mentions peace at all.
Nobody mentions it at all as an idea.
Well, they don't.
You see, But when you're stuck in the kind of the normie paradigm, you don't ask questions like that.
You don't ask questions like, how can you create peace by carpet bombing children in brought up areas?
I'm sure it used to come up as an idea.
Is this the way to handle it?
I don't know.
I can't believe it didn't.
I'm trying to think how I would have reacted back in the day.
I might have thought, who is this pinko Guardianista type with these crazy ideas about you can't give in to terrorists, I'd probably have thought.
No, I remember this happening years ago and I was so upset.
I'm always getting into trouble with these blogs that nobody reads.
I wrote a blog years ago.
It must have been before my son's, about nine years ago, something awful was happening.
And this is when I consumed the media and reacted to it, which I already think is obviously ridiculous now.
Even the amount of stuff that's being put out.
So the juxtaposition of images and stuff, it's supposed to create some kind of confusion in the mind.
It's not straightforward propaganda where it's saying, this terrible thing happened and this is the response.
It's mixing up the images so that people are confused, but the language is absolutely vehement.
So it's creating a kind of shortcut in the brain, I think.
Anyway, years ago I wrote this blog about something awful that's happening in Gaza.
I don't know if I can say this.
But I was told absolutely not to suggest such a thing because my industry wouldn't like it.
For all of the sort of superficial reasons, by the way, that normally people would attribute to prejudice or blah blah blah.
In other words, I was told not to comment on Gaza because Jewish people wouldn't like it and that would impact on my career chances.
Which I thought was so insulting to Jewish people.
And also, I didn't understand how many levels people censor themselves on, or think that you should censor yourself on.
Now, obviously, I look at it as, why was I even looking at it and consuming it in this way and reacting to it in this ridiculous emotional way when it had nothing to do with me?
And in that respect, why was I writing about it when I was trying to sell some jokes about, you know, whatever I was saying, jokes about drinking too much or who I was going out with or whatever?
It was a strange thing to be writing at the time.
But I never looked at it as, oh, my industry is totally controlled and so therefore I have to be, you know, Shoot these people, kill these people.
No, I don't see it like that.
Now I see that anything you say can get you cancelled, including that.
I don't... Exactly.
Um, Tonya, it's now my, it's now my, um, my coffee and cigarette time.
Oh, you're late.
Your wife is going to be very cross.
I know.
She's going to be pissed off.
So, um, I'm going to, I'm going to pause you and I'll be back in 15 minutes.
Is that all right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Go and have a, go and have a coffee and a fag.
I'm going to check on Leonard.
Okay.
Oh, yeah, do!
I want a progress report.
Yes.
Okay.
All right.
How was... How is the tortoise?
The tortoise is fine.
Scratching about, not coming out to any... to eat anything.
But, you know, he has been asleep for 11 weeks, so... What, he's scratching about?
Well, yeah, because I didn't... Like rats in the skirting?
We mustn't talk about rats, James, because I saw one on my roof.
And we haven't had a rat for ages and I called in the rat catcher to bait the roof and he came and then the problem with the rats didn't go away so I actually took a photograph of one of the rats and sent it to the rat catcher saying look this is a real problem now because they've eaten through the bait boxes.
One of the bait boxes flew off the roof and I could see them running up the wall and there were too many of them and he said to me that that's a squirrel And I somehow got muddled between the squirrels and the rats.
I've got lots of squirrels.
I know what a squirrel is, but... They've got bushy tails, Tonya.
Yeah, well, this one didn't.
It was obviously very young.
Oh, I see.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'm certain I saw one rat, and then I sent a picture of a squirrel, and then Neve, he looks after my son sometimes, He sent me a picture of a rat going into the bait box.
This was a definite rat and I sent that picture to my friend who said that is 100% rat.
So I was so relieved I sent that picture of the rat to the rat catcher and he said yeah that is also a squirrel.
Really?
Yes, because I've got the fear, James.
This is what fear does.
You think you've got a cold and then you think you've got a deadly disease.
You think you've got rats and you've got a squirrel.
Yeah, so the new ages will tell you that they come up with stuff like fear is the lowest vibration and love is the highest vibration and I don't I don't dispute that that may be the case, but it doesn't mean that their general theory about all we've got to do is vibrate love and it's all going to be okay and we'll be assumed into the oneness.
I think this is a trap.
This is going to be my theme in my podcast.
I sense that this is where I'm going, that we've got to, particularly among the so-called awake, We've got to alert them to the fact that many of them are being led to the false light.
Are you with me on this one?
The Luciferian false light.
It's the same thing.
It's just about assuming that somebody else is coming to save you.
So everything is to you.
And I do agree that it's quite difficult to put your finger on what exactly you're supposed to do when It's just physically difficult to do the right thing.
Where I live, I cannot buy coffee with cash.
So it's not that I don't know the right thing to do.
It's just that I will have to give up coffee.
And I think that people, because they don't know quite what to do themselves, they're waiting and they're assuming that someone is going to come and rescue them.
That all they have to understand is that no one is coming to rescue them.
And anyone that comes who is big enough to rescue more than one person is already a liar.
It's not going to work like that.
It's only going to work with small groups of people working together.
Anybody that is big enough to be able to help anybody that you don't know directly, that you can't hold accountable directly, is not going to be able to help you.
So it's really easy.
It will be easy to not go the wrong way.
It's like people thinking that Russell Brand might be on their side.
It's such an obvious nonsense.
It's a palpable lie.
And he's just too big.
He's too big to be of any service to you.
You wouldn't even be able to have a chat to him, even if he wasn't an absolute pig.
That's certainly true.
I've been watching... OK, so there is the, if you know their name, they're in the game argument, but it's more than that.
You only have to look...
I've been watching this documentary on this issue about Lucifer versus God and there's copious evidence of
Russell Brand talking to New Agers preaching this message and and and he got Russell saying oh so so what you're saying is um and and and so we've got we've got to discover our only goal we're all gods and we're and we're and and and once we achieve this this high consciousness we can blah blah blah blah and you're thinking This guy is not a neutral party.
The fact that he says stuff that you want to hear about jibby-jabs does not mean he's on your side.
And so many people, so many people of our alleged movement, which isn't a movement by the way, it's just, you know, people at different levels of understanding about the world, you know, the fact that somebody is sceptical about jabs in Ukraine and Gaza is not In and of itself, evidence that they know everything, because they don't.
But so many people... Have you been watching... Do you know Mark Devlin?
Yeah, he does the stuff on the music, doesn't he?
Yeah, and he's very good and, you know, he's on it.
He totally understands that the music industry is a means of deception and control and so on and that all the people who achieve prominence in the music industry are compromised and the music is used to distract us and etc, etc.
But he's just released this, a sort of blackpilled video In which he talks about how he feels that the God that has been sold to us by the Bible is actually a false prospectus, that actually this God is basically evil and that you only have to look at the world to realise this.
He's created this world and it's all horrible.
And he uses the phrase meat suit, I think.
You know, we're all stuck in these meat suits.
What is a reflection of your soul?
Your face is the window to your soul.
And also it's not even the point.
The point is that it's about humility, isn't it?
So even if you want to look at Christ, he has the opportunity to have all of the power in the world and he says it's not for me to tempt God.
The false messiah or Lucifer or whoever, you know, however you want to describe it, it doesn't even, for our purposes, it doesn't even matter if you say it on a material level or not.
If you want to look at it on a material level, it's all about ego.
So it's, even if I was to think that I could save everybody and that it wasn't anything to do with them, it was all down to me, that is already a nonsense, isn't it?
Because it's not, It's not for one person to accrue power to themselves that is going to be anybody else's path out of anything.
It's just their path into more dependence.
Your responsibility is your freedom.
So the amount of responsibility you take for things is the amount of freedom that you have.
Does most people want to be a slave?
And I don't think... It's just the size.
The size of all of the solutions is what gives them away.
I think that obviously our weakness is that we're so disparate.
I really have been surprised by how How people on our side have completely absorbed every new narrative recently and they're either in helplessness or they're in sort of fanatical loathing of people that they don't know.
The language that I've seen used to describe other human beings as if they're animals is gobsmacking.
But it's all about bad impulses are still there.
But I also think in the same way, our disparateness is our strength because the more I don't think disagreeing is a bad thing.
We're supposed to change our minds.
I could think one thing today and think another thing tomorrow and hopefully I'm evolving forward.
Well, you're a woman.
Well, I know I'm very difficult.
I can't change my mind in the next ten minutes.
In fact, I have.
I have already changed my mind about something I said earlier, but I think we've just gone straight to either not expressing ourselves or just banning things.
There's no interim period where we can have a discussion or an uncomfortable feeling or defend a position and then change our minds about it.
It's just we'd rather not have to think about anything at all.
And I, in terms of this, I want to talk about talking, I really do want to talk about Bob's show, by the way, James.
Don't let me do another podcast with you and not talk about Bob's show.
Well, any time.
Do you want to talk about it now?
Yes, I do, I do.
Tell me about Bob's show.
Yes, so you saw it and obviously you know how good it is.
It's very good.
Then you know that we were supposed to do the Opera House in Newcastle.
By the way, viewers, listeners, we're talking about Bob Moran here.
Oh, sorry, yeah.
Bob the cartoonist.
Yes, so we did a show called Artpocalypse, and it was on at the Bloomsbury Theatre, and it was a big success.
And then we were supposed to be at the Newcastle Opera House on the 13th of January, making a film so that lots of people that couldn't come would be able to see it.
And it's also a 1,200-seater, and the building's really pretty.
And we were cancelled because they didn't like something that he tweeted, but they won't tell us what.
It's with the lawyers now.
Anyway, we are looking to do the show again, but probably in a really teeny, tiny place.
In March.
And if we go ahead, it will be very different.
But we'll make a film.
So, will you come back, James?
Into the broom cupboard?
Yes!
Where you're staging this event.
Yeah.
Do you think it will work?
For people that didn't see the show, we had a 25-foot screen with his cartoons on and it was a proper show, whereas this would be more intimate.
Yeah.
No, it sounds good.
By the way, on the subject of Bob, of all the people that I have not had on the podcast, I've been doing this thing where I've been saying, Bob, we're going to do a live show and that's going to be our first show.
But actually, I'm thinking, I'm so disorganized.
I'm never going to get... I'm going to do Bob.
I've got to get Bob on the podcast.
It's just like... Like this?
I don't do interviews, Tonya.
I do rambling chats.
Yes, you're right.
I must have a rambling chat with Bob.
No, I think it's good.
I think it's interesting that he was cancelled.
This is what I mean.
The people that profess to be on your side, like Russell Brand, are never going to be cancelled.
They have a permanent platform, which is obviously falsely inflated for the perception that things function.
But somebody who's just being truthful and is showing you how things work, Or think how the news cycle works, or the tricks of the trade, or the way that you can be manipulated, or how your emotions are moved.
That person needs to be cancelled because they're suggesting to other people that they should take responsibility for themselves and their own formation of ideas.
Whereas the person that's selling you the notion that there is some correct way of thinking, or that they have the answers for you, and that you don't You can just subscribe to them and everything will be made easy for you.
Those people are serving somebody else's purpose and it's not yours.
It's the little people that are removed or that are curtailed in their speech or feel that are constantly self-censoring and are always in despair, it seems to me.
I mean, not someone like Bob now.
I mean, just the general person on the street is so confused by things.
And they're seeking answers.
How could you not be confused?
I mean, it's really weird.
I mean, we're just bombarded with contradictory messages all the time.
All the time.
Can I give you an example?
I saw just recently there was a thing about Donald Trump.
I know we shouldn't talk about politics but actually this is part of the deception and this is why I think our side is vulnerable to this stuff.
So Trump has just announced, never on my watch will America introduce CBDCs.
Now you know and I know that Central Bank Digital Digital currencies are one of the main bugbears of people who know what's going on.
They recognize that this is part of the control mechanism and once CBDCs are introduced, once you can no longer exchange cash for goods and services, once the government can police how you spend your money, that is game over.
So there are going to be loads of people on our side who are going to be going, yay, Trump, he's the man.
And in the same way, there's that guy from, where is it, Argentina, is it?
The president of Argentina, going to the World Economic Forum.
Sorry?
Well, isn't the first thing he did was, didn't he just start waving somebody else's flag straight away?
The Argentina guy?
Well, yes, he did.
Yes, well, that was a tell, certainly.
He waved the Israeli flag, you know, as you do when you're a great national leader looking after your country's interests.
But yeah, so people have been sending me videos of, look, here's a guy sticking to the World Economic Forum, so there is a resistance movement.
It's not.
It's all part of the trickery.
So we're going to be giving these false saviours...
Do you ever think you just go through telegram groups, pick out the sort of catchwords, put them into one big speech like the Italian ladies, and then everybody buys it, and then three seconds later they wave the Ukraine flag, or they wave the Israeli flag, or they sell... I mean, the Trump thing is obviously a joke.
The guy sold the vaccines.
The guy's a creep.
I mean, it's a farce.
Well, he might even be the Antichrist.
Oh, I don't think so.
Are you familiar with this one?
He might be.
I don't think that the Antichrist is going to have hair like that.
Do you not?
No.
What, like Trump's?
So what do you think the Antichrist will look like?
The Antichrist will look like somebody that we can all get behind because he's going to purport to be our saviour.
I don't think he'll ever be accepted by Trump.
I don't think... Well, have you seen that Rosemary Baby stuff?
I mean, now we're deep diving into the holes, but did you see the Rosemary Baby stuff?
Now you're talking my language.
I don't, but I want to hear.
OK, so, the film Rosemary's Baby where she's having the devil's child and then she hears her baby crying and she doesn't care if it's the devil's baby, she wants her baby anyway.
You know the film?
Pretext of the film?
I've seen it, yeah, yeah, it's good.
Roman Polanski, isn't it?
Yeah.
He's completely kosher.
She wears this red dress with this little white crocheted collar and when Kate Middleton presented her baby to the world she wore the same outfit and it obviously wasn't an accident because those outfits are carefully chosen.
Oh come on, people are always wearing red dresses with crochet necks, come on.
No, this is exactly an identicate.
Well I'm only mentioning it because even I, and I'm really trying hard not to look at anything, even I have heard this idea that King Charles is going to abdicate and Prince William is going to pursue Mithra and yada yada yada that he's the Antichrist but I can't believe that he's the Antichrist either because I think they would have given him plucks.
I just think that the Antichrist will have hair, good hair of his own.
Well, on that score, Trump does better than Prince William.
Not much better.
I agree.
Yeah, yeah.
No, no.
I think everything is possible.
I think it's entirely plausible that Prince William could be the Antichrist.
But as you say, he hasn't got the hair.
He hasn't got the charisma.
It's a different thing.
We're arguing a different case.
I definitely think though that various people might imagine they are.
Various people might imagine that they're going to be the one chosen to save everybody.
It is working quite neatly.
None of the people... I'm wondering when they're going to wheel out that Neil Ferguson again to pitch the next thing.
Because he's been very quiet since he got done.
But if you actually look at his history, he was modelling fear for years.
So he did the swine flu thing.
Well he did foot and mouth.
He was early on in the game.
He did foot and mouth, then he did swine flu, then he did Covid.
And I don't think that they were ever modelling diseases.
I think that they were modelling the right figure to pitch to the public in a way that would elicit the response that they got for this one.
But I do think that those people surely want to be promoted.
So he's obviously going to want to be on board for the next thing or do they just get sacked?
What happens once they've achieved their purpose or do they get wheeled out again?
I think they have a range of characters which they can move on like chess pieces or maybe like drafts pieces which have come off the board and then come back on the board but when they've become a Talking of which, I definitely walked past Boris Johnson on the Underground the other day.
And I say definite, and this is somebody that muddled up a rat with a squirrel foot.
I'm absolutely certain I walked past Boris Johnson on the Underground.
He's definitely a rat.
Yes.
And I had a dream about him that night.
And in my dream, we were going out for a drink, and he thought that we were just having a friendly drink.
And I was getting ready to tell him I knew what he did, and that he was a murderer.
And it could have gone super Hollywood-esque, but actually I I was just more confused about why he would do such a thing.
I know that everybody's owned or that they have their weaknesses and that they're being sort of blackmailed on certain levels, but it's such an enormous thing to do, to knowingly poison so many people regardless of what might be exposed about you.
I think that I'm finding it hard to comprehend their immorality.
I understand the money, so I think that money completely corrupts people because once it becomes the only value, They think that they can buy their goodness back later by giving some money away or by sharing the power.
Yes, like... This is Raskolnikov.
Oh yes, so... You know about Raskolnikov?
Yes, that's before, yeah.
But this... I don't think that once you've... Unless you're really convinced that you'd save the planet or that you'd save humanity in the long run, I just don't buy it though.
I think that these people must know how evil they are.
I read this really weird little tract by Steiner called The Occult Significance of the Blood.
Have you read that?
No.
I don't know what to think about Steiner.
Whether he's a goody or a baddy.
Well, he created that revolting museum, didn't he?
And I think that anybody that designs anything that ugly is clearly not in harmony with something.
What revolting museum?
He made that museum, the Goethe Museum.
Have you not seen it?
I didn't know this.
No.
So, he designed the Goethe... I'm sure it's the Goethe Institute or the Goethe Museum.
I'm going to have to check this, now I feel ignorant.
But anyway, he designed this revolting building, truly vile.
And I think that the ugly buildings is one of the biggest... Towers.
Yeah, I think it's a terrible affront to humanity.
I think if you look at Birmingham, you can see that it's impossible for somebody to be in harmony with their soul if they live in a city that's been that brutalised.
It's not possible.
Well, yes, you see, but that's interesting because I mean, I'm originally from Birmingham and the Birmingham, before it got gutted and before the Bullring and Spaghetti Junction got put there, it was actually a beautiful It was beautiful.
It had a certain Victorian magnificence about it, like a lot of these great industrial towns.
They were built by successful people who cared about architecture and stuff.
And now it's a horror.
But then you wonder, the people involved in the Industrial Revolution, were they goodies or baddies?
Baddies, probably.
I don't know.
That's the thing.
It's on every level, isn't it?
You ask yourself.
Is all sort of form of so-called progress, all our kind of technological advances, is that an expression of the same impulse that led man, corrupt man, to build the Tower of Babel?
I've lost you, James.
I lost your connection.
Can you hear me?
Oh, there you are.
You're back.
I can hear you.
Can you hear me?
Yeah.
Now you're moving again, yeah.
What I was saying was that, okay, so we've got the story of the Tower of Babel and man trying to build this huge tower up to heaven.
It effectively is a kind of a sort of Yabu sucks to God, which is why he split us all up and gave us all different languages.
But is Is all technological development essentially man trying to replace God?
Man trying to show that he is the equal of God?
In which case you'd have to look at the Industrial Revolution and think, well, okay, so these guys have been sold to us as heroes, but are they really?
Maybe we should all be living in kind of prelapsarian bliss in, you know, with Strephon and Chloe sort of playing pipes to their flocks of sheep.
I don't know.
Well, I think it's a question, isn't it, of purpose.
So, the idea that... You look at, well, if you want to call it prelapsarian cultures, who didn't... I read this amazing guy, Ludovici.
Now, I told you about him before, but he's the one that said, an ape isn't something we evolved from.
An ape is something that certain human races devolved into for their sins.
He's out there, but it's really interesting.
He's really interesting.
But he's talking about, for example, boiling food in the clay pot.
I told you this before about Prometheus.
But he's saying that people, someone didn't necessarily use a bow and arrow, not because they didn't know how to use it, but because they thought it was cowardly to hide behind a bush and shoot somebody.
It's not that people, a bushman didn't know how to boil food, it's that a bushman knew that boiling food took all of its nutrients out and wasn't good for the human body, so he didn't do it.
And I think that we've lost this idea that some people don't do something, not because they can't do it.
I can go and steal from somebody, But I might not want to.
Not because I'm worried about being caught, but because I think it's beneath me, or because I think it's immoral.
We've totally lost the idea that someone might decline to do something because it's wrong.
So, and it definitely applies to architecture, but I think it actually applies to everything.
I can't think of anything it doesn't apply to.
Hang on.
Let me just pause you there.
Are you saying that boiling food is bad per se, or are you saying that one should actually simmer it rather than boil the hell out of it?
I mean, we know that it's easier to absorb the energy from meat when you cook it, and that's a good thing, right?
We shouldn't be eating raw meat, surely.
Well, Ludovici, not me, certainly not me.
When I worked in Paris, years ago I told you, I left raw meat sitting on the counter.
I got into terrible trouble for not giving someone their meal.
But I had no idea anyone ate raw mince with a raw egg on top.
I just thought it hadn't been to the kitchen yet.
But that's a whole 12-year-old eating that in France.
Absolutely disgusting, the tartare.
But anyway... I wouldn't want to eat steak tartare every day.
I can make a good one, apparently, but I couldn't put it in my mouth if you'd pay me money.
But that's not the point.
He said that it took thousands of years, or certainly a significant amount of time, for the human body to adjust to the cooking of food.
He says that that's behind the whole myth of Prometheus.
And that's why he had to have his liver pecked out for so long, because he killed everybody by stealing fire and using it in the wrong way.
This is quite a long... Well, you know, Prometheus is Lucifer.
Prometheus is Lucifer.
Well... That's the point.
If you wanted to apply... He is the fallen angel that...
Well, the idea as well is that you're taking something that you don't know how to utilize for power and you don't care about the harm it gets.
And then it takes humanity ages to catch up with their new skill.
So I'm not sure when we say progress, obviously some technological progress is fantastic, but if it separates you from the purpose of everything you're doing, then what is, it's certainly not progress.
If it's reduced you to nothing, then it has no purpose.
It's just a, it's just a way of destroying yourself faster.
I obviously love heating.
I'm not suggesting that I want to be spending all my time, you know, being... I'm trying to work out my own plumbing system.
I'm not a practical person.
I just think that you can't separate the purpose of what you're doing to the means of your doing it.
And I think that's what's happening now.
We did it with some big questions, aren't we?
We're making everything ugly.
We're making everything ugly and we're making things that can kill people faster, buildings that can destroy their souls quicker, work that they have no soul connection with.
There's an expression in comedy, don't boil the frog, and it's when you chop up a joke to try and explain its parts and then it ends up not being funny at all.
And that's what we're doing with everything.
We're just chopping it up.
So even the whole idea of health, find out what's wrong with your kidney, find out what's wrong with your toe, as if nothing works in harmony.
The whole idea that there couldn't be a longer goal for anything, that there shouldn't be, that you can stratify time by, you know, Literally paralyzing your face or not having an opinion or not evolving anything or getting rid of the elderly or making everything new.
Even this idea of all of the things that were pitched about cleaning out your house, making it all totally harmonious.
What does that actually mean?
It means it's empty and that there's no trinket left of value that you can exchange with something for somebody.
You're creating something where everything has to be constantly disposed of and nothing has value outside it being new and big.
This is a big question.
Okay, one second.
What do you think?
Suppose that we're done, that we're humans, Had done what God would like us to do and hadn't fallen into wicked ways.
What do you think the world would look like?
Would we, for example, have airplanes?
Would we be living in kind of, I don't know, straw huts?
What technologies would we have?
What technologies would we have?
How would it work? - Well, firstly, I think that you, the whole point, isn't it, is that you have free choice.
I think you end up in the same place.
So, if you have free choice and you make the wrong choice, you're going to end up with your conscience bothering you, and you're going to end up back where you started from.
But I think that you can't have faith if you don't choose it.
So, this whole idea of the hierarchy or the revolution, I think that there is an energy that everybody has.
How do I explain this really quickly and clearly?
I think that people have a natural instinct to get to a certain place and then want to stop there.
I think it's the opposite of what we think of progress.
I think that we want to be able to get to a certain point in our careers or a certain point in our life or a certain bit in our home decor where we then want to stop it.
And it's actually And then once we stop, our energy has to go into different places, over-controlling our children, over-controlling our partners, over-controlling our friends, over-controlling a stranger's opinion on something.
That instinct to sort of preserve everything is the opposite instinct to wanting to build on something that you respect.
I don't think that Stopping things and conserving them.
So we are in a muddle and so far as we think that being a conservative would be to stop things where they are and not make any progress.
I don't think that.
I think that if you look at any kind of spiritual saint or any person that's on any kind of path, they're using the ladder of the hierarchy to transcend that state and go to the next level.
But I think that lots of people don't have that in them.
They want to stop things once they find that they're comfortable.
But you need both energies.
You need the energy that has all of the discipline, but they're using all of the discipline to transcend where they get to, versus the person that wants to stop everybody moving and becomes obsessed with the ritual.
I don't think I've been very clear.
I think that you're supposed to be I can't explain what I mean.
I don't think you've really engaged with my question, which is quite a big and demanding one.
Well, so... Okay, so let me give another example.
You're saying about airplanes, for example, but I think that it's, you have to have both things in sync.
I'm not saying that you wouldn't have, you would have certain technologies, but they wouldn't be totally separate from the soul.
So the idea of, you're now just supposed to be some kind of automaton that gets in a plane and goes to sleep somewhere, that you cannot have Um, technological progress with the sterilization of the soul.
And that's what we have.
So it's even the way we talk about it.
We say, Oh, so you would stop having you wouldn't have an airplane or you wouldn't have a car.
Well, I might have a car but I would stop when I got to the point where I wanted my car to switch itself off so that I sat there in traffic and didn't know how to switch it back on again and then I was driven around for myself because that's when your tools are completely separated from your purpose, as in your internal purpose.
It shouldn't be that the tools that you use are just there to help you sleep.
It's like An aeroplane is a great way of getting around, but if the aeroplane's only function isn't to help you move somewhere, but is actually to dissolve your capacity to stay in one spot.
In other words, people now can't seem to function unless they have They can't transcend themselves where they're sitting.
They can only escape into something.
Where does an aeroplane take you now?
It doesn't take you anywhere.
It's keeping you in a cycle of soulless work, pointless drunken holiday where you're asleep, then soulless work again.
Speak for yourself.
- Wow. - I mean, I quite like seeing, I quite liked going to Costa Rica and seeing- - I've never been, I've loved to go to Costa Rica.
Yeah, seeing actual macaws flying on a tropical beach.
You're very lucky and I would love to go and see some tropical macaws.
I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't travel.
I'm saying that there is a relationship between technology and humanity that has been totally separated and the fact that everyone wants to go and see a macaw means that they will therefore All take a drug without thinking about it.
Their desire to see a macaw overrides their desire to defend the land in which they sit.
They're no longer prepared to defend their garden because they want the promise of a paradise that's far away.
It's interesting, I went to this birthday party for my son, like a fancy birthday party in Hampstead, and the entertainer could only be there really early in the morning, so we were having these mimosas for breakfast.
And there was like a bubble machine for the children and everyone was having this disco.
It was like Ibiza back in the day.
Mimosa's a cocktail, yeah?
Yeah, for the grown-ups, not for the children.
What's in a mimosa?
Orange juice and champagne.
They obviously thought that champagne was okay to drink at 11am if it was full of orange juice.
That's a Buck's Fizz!
Then what the hell was I drinking?
I don't know what I was drinking.
Whatever it was, it was delicious.
Mimosa sounds better, but that sounds like Buck's Fizz to me.
Anyway, carry on.
I don't know what it was.
Anyway, it had lots of champagne in it.
Maybe it was a Buck's Fizz.
The point is that, oh, I'm getting everything muddled up.
Buck's Fizzes, Mimosas, Squirrels, Rats.
I went to put some rubbish away, and the man that owned this house, I said, which one's the recycling bin?
And he said, they're both recycling bins.
And I said, I sometimes worry, this is the champagne going to my head, I said, I sometimes worry that the recycling's not being done.
And he said, well, it isn't being done.
I know that it's not being done because I work in recycling.
And he lived in this huge house, so I believed him.
And five minutes later, I was talking to this guy who has just bought a property near me, and he said that he really wanted a big garden because, you know, what with the climate emergency, I said, with the money laundering operation?
And he said, yes, with that.
So he knew it was a money laundering operation.
He said, well, we might not be able to travel.
I said, so you want a big garden so that you can watch the chemtrails form in your own backyard?
And he said, yes, I was watching them this morning.
So this is a super normie birthday party where I had a loose tongue and basically the recycling guy who's loaded told me that the recycling's not happening.
The guy with the big house said that he can see the chemtrails and he knows he's not going to be able to travel but so he wants a big garden to be imprisoned in.
So all of these people there, they know what's going on on some level and they're just working out how they can get through it comfortably and they're not They're not trying to stop it, they're trying to make it easy for themselves.
So when I say about flying or seeing a McCaw, I obviously want to fly and see a McCaw, but I think it has to be in sync with my person, so that if that means I don't get to go because I have to defend my spot for my children or for myself, Of my soul, then tough.
I don't get to be in a plane.
And the second we forgot that those two things work together, our technology and our purpose of life, then the technology is just a weapon to be used against us by people that can tell us when we're allowed to use it.
Yes.
I just don't think I would also be having a chip in my brain and being told that if I do X, Y and Z I'm allowed to go to Morocco for a week.
And I think that those two things have become separated.
Yes.
I think the answer is that it's complicated.
Because I was thinking... I was going to give you another example.
I was going to give... More coffee.
Are you aware Are you aware of, you must be, of the theory that the Emperor Constantine never converted truly to Christianity, it was just a kind of political move, and that he wanted to retain Rome's power base and recognise that by
Co-opting the coming new religion and using it for their own interests, this would ensure Rome's ongoing status as the centre of the world.
And so he incorporated all the kind of Babylonian mystery religions into Catholicism, which is why you've got the obelisk in St.
Peter's Square and so on.
I mean, that's an Asherah pole.
It's a pagan thing.
It's not a Christian thing at all.
And there is an argument that all the great cathedrals that one admires are essentially a political gesture which has got nothing to do with true Christianity which is about humility and all the All the graven images, for example, which the Ten Commandments warns us against.
I mean, here we are, I've got the church making graven images of Christ on the cross.
I can agree with that.
But if you look at an icon in orthodoxy, the person that creates the icon, firstly they're anonymous, and they have a Their icon, it has no value as an icon unless they're completely pure.
So the purity of the person creating the icon is what gives the icon its value.
In terms of actual materials, it has no worth.
It has worth because of the purity of the person.
And in the Western tradition, we seem to have gone the other way, where we're more interested in who's the sort of depravity of the person that created something.
We're more interested in the story of the person that made something and that's how we've ended up out of sync again.
Yes, you know Miriam did a book for her.
I told you about this.
Yeah.
Has she done it now?
Yeah, it's very funny.
But she said to me, do you think I should work on this project?
And I said, no, because I think that she's an immoral woman.
But she said, but I've got a really funny idea for it.
I said, well, then you've already decided, because Miriam's a hugely creative person.
If you have this creative idea, you're going to do it.
I love Miriam.
I love her.
Anyway, then she calls me up and she says, um, oh, Tani, will you... because sometimes I help her with her captions.
And she said, would you help me with the captions on my book?
And having just said, oh, you shouldn't do this project, I said, yeah, sure.
So we went to the pub and worked on the captions together.
But And she's just done a really good new one, actually, called Things to Make and Do, which is sort of spoof politically correct toys.
But it's really, really clever.
But why are we talking about Maria Abramovich?
I can't remember.
Oh, because things are ugly.
I mentioned her.
But I think we're actually agreeing, Tanya, that we live in a fallen world where so much is corrupt.
And at the same time that it is possible to do good things in a bad environment.
So to use the cathedral analogy, the stonemasons who created those beautiful sculptures and stuff and ornaments and gargoyles and things were an expression of God's work.
But I believe in beauty.
The reason I don't agree, necessarily, that it was all some sort of ruse to consolidate power is that everything that was made was beautiful.
Today, you have people trying to consolidate their power, but everything that they make is ugly.
You have St.
Paul's or you have the Gherkin.
They're not equivalent.
So there is something fundamentally wrong that wasn't fundamentally wrong before, where the things that we are creating with power and money, which power and money have always been there, but there is no harmony left.
There isn't even harmony in a view of any city.
It's inharmonious.
And that's much more of a tell than whether or not something increased somebody's empire.
The empire at the moment is being increased, but the way the empire is being increased at the moment is with glass and concrete and tiny little cages for humans and bombs and war.
There is nothing chivalrous left.
There is nothing left.
It's just glass that's replaceable.
It's very strange.
I was saying, I don't think that the past was perfect, by the way, obviously.
Right.
It just left us with better buildings.
Well, that's a good, that's a good point to finish off.
It's true.
Yeah.
Should we end it there?
We've thrown out some good ideas.
I mean, obviously we haven't solved anything because that's not the deal.
I think I'm leaving this with more questions than I started.
I haven't been very clear today.
But that's good.
That's good.
Question everything.
I mean, that's the thing.
I've been really, really surprised and disappointed Recently by people's response to the flat earth debate.
You know, I mean, I haven't got a dog in the fight, but I think that everything should be up for grabs.
I think that's fascinating, James.
You've got to, next time we chat, we need to talk about that.
Because, did I ever tell you how I did that podcast?
This isn't working.
I can see you can't see me, but anyway.
Well, it doesn't matter.
Yeah, carry on.
But I did this podcast ages ago when I thought that we could change everything and stop people taking the vaccine and someone commented on it.
They said she's really sound but she's totally clueless on flat earth.
I made some really dismissive comment like, Oh, well, listen, some people believe in flat earth.
It doesn't mean that you should discount their moral judgments on other things.
There's a really great guy called Davila who says when you're making a statement of value, you should never invoke whoever it might be to support your statement.
Your statement either has value or it doesn't.
It doesn't matter.
You can take responsibility for a statement of value.
You don't need to sort of share it with Aristotle.
If you believe in something, you can believe it, even if you can't think who you're quoting.
But anyway, when I read this comment on the flat earth, I thought, oh my God, I couldn't possibly be wrong on that as well, could I?
And since then, I've realized that I couldn't possibly know.
I don't understand.
That's the thing.
I've not looked into it.
That's it.
So how dare I be so dismissive of people that have bothered to look into it?
I don't have a clue.
It's just another thing I accept because I've been told it's the way things are.
So, should look at that too.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
I had this on my last podcast.
I did a podcast with a guy talking about chlorine dioxide.
Do you know about chlorine dark side?
Chlorine dark side?
You've got...
Have you gone... I can hear sounds of somebody walking across a kitchen.
Oh yeah, that was me giving up.
Yeah.
So I was going to ask you... No, it's alright, we'll just... I know that you say you don't have a dog in the fight, but where are you going?
I did a podcast with this guy about chlorine dioxide, which I can well believe is this miracle substance which cures everything.
And it's great.
And yet, of course, this guy's been given a hard time for going against the kind of Big Pharma narrative and stuff.
I mentioned another kind of alternative therapy and he was very dismissive of it and I was thinking well hang on a second here you are you've gone out on a limb promoting this this treatment which I totally agree with you is effective and that there is you know evidence that it works and stuff and yet here you are dismissing something out of hand which you haven't looked into and I'm thinking that it's never a good look when Asai does that
But this is what I was trying to say earlier, is that people get to a point where they think, oh, finally, I have all of the answers.
And actually, for you, definitely, for you, when you have all of the answers, you think, oh my God, that means that there are more questions.
But for other people, they think, I cannot believe I've just discovered this incredible answer.
Please, whatever you do, don't ask me another question, because that's all my brain can take.
Yes.
And it kind of happens in everything.
It happens in every religion, and it happens in every form of education, that once somebody feels satisfied that they've solved something, they don't want to then have another task to do.
They think, I want to stop now, I'm ready to sleep.
But that's not how it works.
Yes.
We're never going to reach that point.
No.
Because you're growing, James.
Yeah.
You're just going to have more questions.
I am.
I'm growing.
I'm growing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I hope I don't grow up too much.
But yeah, you're absolutely right.
I think that... I don't think anyone who has started asking questions should suddenly stop.
Like they know.
Because they don't.
We don't.
The next time that we talk, this is what I'm currently obsessed with.
I mentioned it briefly, but this is, I haven't read enough about it to understand it totally, but you know how these vaccines really damage the heart, which in every major philosophy is considered the divine dwelling place.
And they also obviously poison the blood, which is You know, if you control the blood, you control the man, is the idea, Steiner's idea.
We got stuck on Steiner earlier.
But these are the two, these are the three things that I'm going to talk to you about next time I speak to you.
You can research Flat Earth, have you gone?
And I'm going to look at... No, I haven't.
I'm definitely going to do more research into it.
I'm going to look at blood, hearts, and angels, and you can look at Flat Earth, and then we can come back and compare our findings.
And Steiner, and Steiner.
Yes.
I need to know about Steiner.
I've read quite a lot of him.
He's not a clear writer.
He writes like a lecturer you'd rather not listen to, but he's got really interesting ideas.
Bad sign, Tanya.
Really bad sign.
I find obfuscation is a tell.
It's not obfuscation.
He's quite clear.
He's just stilted, as if he's speaking to you in a different language.
Yeah, but if you're stilted, you haven't got that divine grace.
Well, if you've built the building that he built, you don't have divine grace necessarily either.
I'm going to send you a picture of it.
But I can't really see you now.
I don't know what's going on.
No, no, no.
We'll just have to assume.
OK.
We'll look into these things.
Yes.
Because Steiner is an interesting one, certainly.
And Flat Earth is a really interesting one.
I mean, I kind of like things that wind people up.
That's always a good thing.
Not as a kind of a policy of like, yeah, I'm here to piss people off, but it's the difficult things which are the most interesting because inevitably they provoke the most visceral reactions because people are so sort of wedded to their paradigms.
And if you take them out of their comfort zone, they get aggressive, defensive.
That's where I find it interesting, not because I enjoy Well, I think it's one of those things, isn't it, that you find it hard to, or anyone finds anything hard, once they're fundamental, the ground on which they're standing shifts.
Because then how can they concentrate on other things if they feel uncertain of where they are?
And whether or not you're on a spinning ball or on the terra firma is quite a big deal.
Psychologically, I imagine.
Well, yeah, but when I go outside to walk the dog, I don't feel that my walk has been materially changed by thinking that maybe The ground I'm walking on is genuinely flat rather than spinning around the sun at 66,000, there's a clue, 66,000.
But that's because you already don't trust everybody.
But for somebody else that does trust everybody and thinks that every textbook is correct and that scientifically we're just making the perfect linear progression towards all knowingness and that everything that they're told they should trust and that anybody that questions anything is a crank.
For those people, whether they're on flat earth or on a spinning ball, it's that either people are telling the truth to them or they're not.
I'm bloody glad I read English, not one of the sciences.
I used to venerate science, thinking it was a thing beyond my ken, that cleverer people than me understood, and now I'm thinking, nah.
Which is a great relief.
There are upsides to becoming... Oh, wait.
I can't hear you again, James, so I'm gonna go.
No.
Well, we're going to go.
We're going to go.
Tanya, tell us where people can find you.
I'm still determined to do the Substack, James.
So, on my Substack, this is my thing for the new year.
Follow my Substack.
Make me write something.
I do.
I do pop up occasionally.
And also, we're going to do Bob's show again.
Good.
I'll put a link to it.
That will be on my Twitter.
And thank you for listening to this.
Thank you for watching this podcast.
I really appreciate your support.
It makes a huge difference to my life.
Because it's how I earn my living.
And if you don't want me to make many more podcasts, don't sponsor me.
Stop now.
Don't give me any money.
But if you want me to keep doing what I'm doing and do it better and get great guests and etc., then please support me on Locals, on Substack.
Substack is good.
Patreon, Subscribest.
I think Substack is probably the best.
Buy me a coffee.
Give me Bitcoin, actually, when I install the Bitcoin device into my...
Oh, and sponsor my podcast.
I had this email the other day from somebody, which I can't find now, saying, I'd love to advertise my vitamin thing on your podcast.
And I meant to write back, and I tried to find the email, and I couldn't find it.
So if you're that person, you know who you are, please, Contact me again through my website, which is jamesderlingpole.co.uk.
And send me another line.
I'm sorry about that.
I can be sketchy, as you know.
Anyway, I appreciate... Thank you for being a lovely audience, and thank you for making my life worthwhile.
Thank you, Tanya, again.
And we'll do another one soon, when we talk about those things.
