Tania Edwards is an award-winning stand-up comedian who woke up. She co-wrote Bob Moran's brilliant Art-Pocalypse stage show.
https://taniaedwards.substack.com/
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I love DellingPod Come and subscribe to the podcast, baby I love DellingPod And listen for the time, subscribe with me I love DellingPod Welcome to the DellingPod with me, James DellingPod I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest Well, Tanya Edwards.
You've been hard to bloody pin down.
How long have I been trying to get you on this pod?
Quite a while.
Yeah, quite a while.
I mean, like, so I can get hold of sort of obscure Americans, but an English comic, I mean, it's not like you're very far away.
Anyway, welcome.
Welcome, Tanya.
Welcome to The Delling Pod with me, James Delling Pod.
And I know I always say, It's good to have you on.
It's good to have you on.
I thought that we... I wasn't sure what we were going to talk about, but I just thought this would be a kind of general chat about where we are.
I remember first coming upon you.
I mean, since I've gone down the rabbit hole and stuff, I've encountered all these best friends that I never knew I had before.
I mean, you know, like you.
We've hung out at events and marches and stuff.
I have a family, James.
Exactly.
I've got my new fam and you're definitely part of that.
I think the first time I encountered you, you were saying something really quite feisty during Covid.
Why am I using that word, Covid?
That's their word.
During the nonsense, the fake pandemic.
I got the impression that even then you were really quite hardcore red-pilled.
When did this happen to you?
Well, I was very blue-pilled.
I've been botching blue pills since the day I was born.
When the Covid thing started, I took No one's ever fallen harder or faster at the Matrix and I still, I think, probably believed initially enough to think that if you just explained to people what was happening it would stop.
So if I was feisty, it's because I really believed that if people just understood what was going on, they'd stop participating in it, it wouldn't have to happen.
So way before there was a vaccine, I knew that there was going to be a vaccine.
I remember saying to my father, they're going to introduce a vaccine, they're going to separate society, there'll be a two-tier state, and all you have to do is not participate.
And he said to me, well then I better take my vaccine because I want to go to Crete.
And this is before there was a vaccine.
I had a massive religious experience.
The whole thing was very overwhelming.
And it was nothing but failure, by the way.
Maybe I converted a couple of Uber drivers, but everybody important in my life just thought I'd lost it.
And I tried every single way.
So my best friend, since I was 12, I spent four weeks trying to persuade him not to take the vaccine.
I tried everything.
Tears, science, persuasion.
Nothing works because his girlfriend was pregnant and she wanted him to take it.
So it's just been nothing but failure.
I left my agent, I separated from lots of friends, you know, business colleagues I suppose I would now call them.
But my personal relationships are all still fine.
But yeah, at the beginning I thought I could change stuff and it turns out you can't.
We ought to explain, the reference to your agent helps.
We ought to explain who you are, for those few listeners and viewers who don't know.
I mean, you're a stand-up comic.
Yeah, I'm just someone that drinks beers with the best men, tells a few jokes.
Nice and easy.
You are very good at it.
I mean really good.
And I'm not saying that to blow cocaine up your bottom in a kind of Fleetwood Mac 1971 stuff.
You know that story, don't you?
No, I don't.
You don't know?
No.
The roadies.
I thought you were flirting.
I can't remember whether it was, who were the Fleetwood Mac, there was Christine McVie and Stevie Nicks.
I seem to remember that, being reading, that during the 1970s in their stage shows they used to get roadies to perk them up mid-performance by blowing cocaine up their bottoms.
I don't know how they did it.
Did they have a sort of special tube or something underneath the stage?
I will now.
Yeah.
Anyway, I don't know how we got onto there.
Oh, yeah.
You are very, very good.
Is that what you've done all your life?
I mean, all your working life?
Well, I don't know what I was doing.
I was sort of always... I was writing for years.
And then I had some kind of existential crisis and went to Paris as you do.
And then I came back and I was still writing.
And lots of my friends always do stand up for years, but it wasn't very glamorous, you know.
And then a friend of mine, who I'd done a writing programme with at the Royal Court Theatre, it turned out that he... I used to call him Mr Plan B, because when we started out, he was already teaching on the side, and I was just convinced I would have everything that I wanted straight away.
And anyway, I remember working in this office, it had no windows, and I was sitting next to this girl on reception.
I was basically temping between writing jobs, but it became more that I was just writing between temping jobs, so I was ever so depressed.
And this girl I was sitting next to, she just kept banging on about her Louis Vuitton handbag, and I thought, this is back in my space, I thought, I'm going to Myspace this guy, Mr Plan B, because he is the only person on earth who's guaranteed to be more depressed than I am, and we can go out for a beer, and he'll tell me how depressed I am, and I'll feel better about the world.
Well, it turned out he'd won the Perrier, the stand-up.
And I was so jealous, I had to leave the building and hyperventilate outside.
And I got really frustrated that someone had done something that I couldn't have done.
And literally about the next day, I think, I booked myself a show.
It started a month later, and that was all I've done since.
Oh, OK.
Well, and... But, like, it's been 16 years.
So, just briefly, when you say you were writing, what were you trying to write?
Novels?
Plays?
Any old thing.
I was always writing plays, skits.
I would do investment brochures, I'd do academic stuff.
I did health and safety videos for railways.
I was just writing for hire, anything.
And then, obviously, writing stuff that I liked.
Funny stuff or serious stuff.
Deeply depressed stuff.
I was young and partying hard and having lots of moods.
How easy or hard is it being a stand-up comic?
It's really easy to love it.
I started out with people, some of them are super talented, they would vomit before they went on stage.
And they never managed to control their gagging and they quit.
Or if people were very successful, so I knew a guy who was very successful in real life, high-maintenance girlfriend, smoking hot, loved mini breaks in Barcelona.
So he just wasn't free to be humiliated on the weekend doing open mic spots for no money.
So it took a strange mix of confidence and failure to be able to pursue it.
And I had both.
That's brilliant.
It's not a kind of hump you have to overcome?
You have to die lots of times before you get good?
Yes.
I've died a thousand times.
But the death is really motivating.
When you die you want to get straight back on stage.
Because the idea of that being the last thing you did is...
Awful.
But I still die sometimes.
It's just not at the same time.
So if you die now, what you want, if you're professional, is you want someone to say, oh God, I hated her, she was dreadful.
You don't want anyone to think, oh God, she suffered, that poor girl.
You want people to go, I hated her, that was the worst person.
But without any sympathy.
If someone has no human sympathy or connection, it means they see you as a professional and that you've nailed it.
And you don't want anyone to shout out, keep going, that happened to me once in Watford.
I've never gotten over it.
So as long as you die with style, as long as someone's abusing you, actually that's quite easy.
If someone heckles you, that's fine.
That gives you momentum.
But what you don't want is either silence or sympathy.
And that takes a couple of years to have all sympathy eradicated.
How do you eradicate the sympathy?
You double down.
People can sense fear and then it tends to be about the people in the room, how much empathy they have.
So some people it makes them feel uncomfortable, they really hate you if they can tell that you're afraid, whereas other people will feel sorry for you.
Whereas once you kind of get your stride and you don't ever apologise, then people will just really dislike you or love you and that's where you want to be.
You know, it's a lot of fun.
I've got much, much better in my life at public speaking.
And I've died a few times.
I once had a go after dinner speaking.
And it was one of the, I won't give you the details because it's just too painful even now to trawl it up.
But I just wanted the ground.
to swallow me up and just cut up in a ball and just like vanish a bit like I did when I had a pulmonary embolism it was just like it was so horrible I just wanted to cease to exist curious I had one bad death this year and I hadn't had one for such a long time that I was genuinely fat and after you die like that you write so many jokes It's really super productive.
It's fascinating what is happening.
It's a challenge, and then afterwards you're really productive.
But fortunately, I don't die enough to really profit from it.
The best comedians I know are the ones that died over and over and over for years, and now they are untouchable.
But it's, you know... I normally get away with it, so I haven't...
They've probably reached their peak.
Ah.
The lesson I learned from that particular near-death experience was that I really didn't want to do after dinner speaking.
Just absolutely not.
I don't like the stuff you have to go through beforehand where you often have to sit eating with the people that you're later on going to entertain.
I don't do that.
And not drinking or whatever.
No.
I mean, it's horrible in so many ways.
I've been invited by Decline.
I'll have a drink afterwards, but I won't fraternise beforehand.
That's very wise.
Well, just because then they wouldn't be able to just dislike me or see me as professional.
They'd have met me.
It's better for people to meet you afterwards, unless you have to run out the back.
Disappear down an alleyway, hoping nobody sees you.
That would have been a good piece of advice, yes.
Don't sit with the people you're later on going to entertain, allegedly.
But also, I've noticed that when I do well, it's because I'm feeding off the goodwill and enthusiasm of the audience.
And if you don't have that, then it's quite hard to be at your best.
So how do you do that?
Because you go into a room, it's cold.
How do you win them over?
Well, it's just an exchange of energy.
Yeah.
Obviously, if the room is alight, you're taking all of their energy, and if the room is not, they're taking all of yours.
So, I think that's just practice.
Yeah.
Yes, you're right about the energy.
I mean, regardless, even when the audience is with me, I feel totally drained at the end.
I love it.
Do you?
I'm a real whore for a time.
It's an illness.
Well, you're doing the right job then, Tanya.
So, since you became, okay, so you swallowed the whole jar of red pills?
All of them.
All of them?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a bit like, it reminds me of the time when I had two bags of MDMA and took them to somebody's 50th birthday party.
So bald!
And I ruined the whole room.
I mean, people, there was far too much of it and I overdosed myself and it was just absolutely insane and not to be repeated.
But I think one can have too many red pills all at once.
It's quite a... well, I mean, some people think you've gone mad, don't they?
I was very alone in my red pilling.
I have very young children.
When all of this started, my baby was a baby.
I was still breastfeeding.
I had a perfect life.
I had everything I'd ever wanted.
I was with the best agent.
I was doing corporate.
I was well critically received in Edinburgh.
And I'd really slogged, by the way.
Really worked intermittently hard, but certainly I hadn't done anything else forever.
And I was playing all my favourite places, you know, the comedy store, everywhere.
And I remember having lunch with my baby, who fell asleep just as my wine arrived.
And I was in Sloane Square and I had money, enough, and I had, you know, a wonderful marriage and my beautiful children.
And I thought life is perfect.
I actually thought this is too perfect.
And it all went.
So, it was, for me, it was so obviously evil.
I was a really smug atheist before all of this.
You know, one of those, I mean, is there any other kind?
No.
One of those really tedious atheists.
And I was so confident.
I was really thought I was right about everything.
And I even liked disasters because they were good anecdotes.
I was probably always chasing good anecdotes, really.
Then when this happened, all of my, even my friendships over 15 years, people I'd worked with, you have really intense friendships on the comedy circuit because you work with people over and over and over again for really exciting periods and then maybe you don't see them for a year but you have this intense bond and a lot of people I really loved and admired chilled the shit out of this crap on every level.
Do you think they were paid to do so?
Absolutely.
So I definitely as well got some of that wrong.
So I have really good friends who I've gigged with since and I've realised that I was wrong.
Some of them just believed everything.
They just believed it.
They took their drugs, they took their photographs, they promoted, they wore their masks, they followed the rules, they made their jokes about lockdowns.
They believed it.
They were just regurgitating what they consume, which is meat.
And then other people were absolutely lying to get ahead.
And some people were just holding back because they knew how the land like.
So my agent, after I wrote a blog about masks, Right.
called Trouble Backstage at the Hydee Theatre.
She called me up and she said, "I won't get you your book deal, "and I won't get you your TV work, "I won't get you anything if you say this." And we never spoke again. - Right, I mean, that is... - A very famous comedian who wasn't very famous before this.
So, I don't know, I'm not on Instagram anymore.
I'm technically there, but I can't access my account.
But if you're on Instagram and somebody that you know likes something, it pops up that so-and-so liked it.
And that's to encourage you to like the same thing.
Or to think that, you know, to show you that other people like the same thing that you've bothered to look at.
And this was an old school friend of mine who I hadn't seen for years.
And she'd liked this comment that a comedian had made, you know, I can't wait when I'm finally allowed to go out again and I can finally get my vaccine and hug my friends.
And I wrote to my school friend and I said, listen, this person is great fun to go out for a drink with.
And I know this because I was out drinking with them last night.
But you do know that this is a lie.
They're not isolating.
They've just played to 400 people.
They're not wearing a mask.
They're not living and breathing, waiting for their vaccine.
This is bullshit.
And she said, well, why would she?
Why would she do that?
People, I don't think the public can understand that social media is not some diary entry that you're privy to, it is a pitch for work.
And if the popular thing is saying that you've got horrible breasts and that you get piss in your pants, then you'll have, because some people like to follow that kind of stuff, it's not that someone's being intimate with you, it's that they're going to get a brand But I think that I was overcritical of people that just fell for it.
I didn't understand that some people, because everybody was profiting from the lie, I didn't understand that some people were profiting incidentally because I could see that some people were profiting deliberately.
But I think I misunderstood, I think I was too judgmental about how many people really believed this.
His daughter was so profoundly affected by the idea that she could touch something and make someone else sick.
She's not been able to work since, she's got chronic OCD, she's never recovered psychologically.
And I think I didn't have enough sympathy for people that were really suffering.
I was probably too harsh.
But this is one of the things that once you have swallowed the full jar of red pills, You can dimly remember the period when you too were one of those blue pill people, where you said you were blue pilled.
What did you say?
You were completely blue pilled.
So you believe the narrative.
These people believe the narrative.
I think lots of people do believe the narrative because after all the narrative is so well So embedded in our consciousness in every different way from the lying media.
Yeah, and a lot of this is about good manners.
There's certain protocols.
So if you're on stage as the MC and someone really dies on their arse, your job as the MC is to reset the room.
It's not to go on stage and slag them off.
And similarly, the second you go into a theater, you don't Slag off the person they had on the night before, even if you hate them, because that's just manners.
They're just going into someone's house and not slagging them off.
So that way, everybody is implicated, just by societal norms, into Consciously or unconsciously endorsing other people that they don't necessarily endorse.
Now I don't mind who says what, but I notice that if I'm participating in something that I have to limit what I say just out of basic manners if I want to be in the same space.
And the good thing about taking all of those red pills is that I haven't had to watch what I've said for years.
But obviously now I have to be slightly I'm wary at the school gates and not that wary.
I think when you've had the full jar, you get a bit kamikaze, don't you?
I never miss a trick to steer my Zero to the heart of the aircraft carrier's conning tower.
I think it's amazing, especially in the COVID thing, just by sitting there when people were saying whatever they were saying, just responding, well, I'm unvaccinated, just saying that simple thing, would confuse them because they forgot that people were real.
They just had this idea of this sort of vermin that were going around putting other people in danger, all these difficult people that were stopping them getting what they wanted or stopping them moving on.
So to sort of disrupt their flow or their compartmentalisation was really useful.
I probably had more useful conversations just by I remember having this very strange chat with a guy at the comedy store.
He wasn't on.
He used to be a comic.
You know, one of those Jarvis Cocker-esque copycats who thinks that they're really cool and they call themselves left-wing, so they imagine that they have no responsibility for any of their opinions.
And he was saying how handy it was that they had this Green Pass in France.
But he was saying it in the context of my friend, who was about to... Her girlfriend was about to lose her business, because you had to take the vaccine to keep your restaurant.
But it wasn't just that she'd have to take the vaccine, she'd have to then police her customers, and if one of her customers managed to, you know, cheat her, then she was the one that was going to go to prison.
And they were being forced, basically, to take these drugs under duress.
There was no hidden...
Coercion there.
It was absolutely frank.
It was open.
And he was like, well, yeah, it's really handy.
You know, maybe you don't want the unvaccinated in.
And I said, but you're sitting here at the Comedy Store with me and I'm unvaccinated.
And he didn't know what to say to that because I was at the table having a drink because I'd just been on stage.
He was only there because, you know, he was showing, you know, he wanted to be with the comedian.
And so it wasn't me that was going to have to leave the table if it made him feel uncomfortable, it was going to be him.
So quickly I noticed he didn't feel uncomfortable anymore.
But those people, when it's an anonymous thing, they will go the whole way because they like their certificates and their apps and they don't... they have no self-awareness.
They have...
They have nothing.
But it's very curious to me that some people are falling out of the... This is a really weird moment, I think, because some people are really going back into the media as if suddenly they're telling the truth about everything.
And other people are falling out when they never questioned anything until now.
A friend of mine, a vaccinated friend, came to Bob's show and he said he felt really depressed the next day.
Because he'd gone along with everything and then it disappeared.
And then he'd seen all of these Ukraine flags and now they're all gone.
And he doesn't like what's happening in Gaza because of all of the dead children.
And he'd made some comments on it and he's fallen out with one of his best friends.
And I think that this is the one where he's suddenly looking at it thinking, wow, these things are just popping up and then they disappear.
And all along the way, we're losing people, as in our friends, I think that he's suddenly feeling that maybe he got done in a way that he didn't feel before.
That's interesting.
But other people I know who've read Perls and now absolutely believe everything they read.
They think that they're right about everything.
They are adamant that they couldn't be manipulated.
They've gone mad.
Yeah.
I want to talk a bit more about that in a moment.
just I'm just going through the through the your your your life story yeah so I'm just why But we're doing this on my phone and there's a chat... I know, I know.
By the way, I should explain to viewers and listeners, although that Tanya is a very talented comic, she is not... she shares my level of technical... technical skills.
And I had to wait half a bloody hour while she tried to upload some software onto her laptop, which didn't work, so we're now doing it on her sodding mobile phone.
I even called a tech guru, but nothing could help me.
No, no, it doesn't help.
The people who run the tech industry don't want this conversation to happen.
Why are you dicking around with your phone?
can ask you another question yes my question my question is okay so why do you think it was given that you were a smug atheist and And also, you had all your earthly desires, pretty much.
The beast system was really rewarding you.
It was showing you the way to go.
So, how come?
Do you think a hand was pointing down from heaven and just said, Tanya!
You think you've got, you know where your life's going, but in fact I have other plans for you.
Do you think?
I think it...
Well, firstly, I wasn't that successful.
I was just super happy.
Don't ruin your story.
Well, I think when I was little, I was really religious.
I lived in a vicarage.
I wasn't from a religious family.
I just lived in a vicarage in the middle of nowhere.
And I'm a proper townie.
My mother's a townie.
My father's a A country guy.
They're not together anymore.
But I was always sort of lost in this village.
Anyway, there was nothing to do.
I used to take myself to church every weekend.
I was ever so pious.
And then I insisted on my own baptism when I was about seven.
And my poor brother had to be baptized too, even though he had no interest in any of this.
Because my mother didn't want him to feel left out.
And anyway, then when I was about 12 or 13, and I was cool, I renounced it all as you do.
And I forgot all about it.
I was, and I forgot all about it.
And then when this stuff started happening, you know, keep your distance, people weren't nice to my children, everyone was frightened.
No one was looking out their window.
I also, I never saw it as anything other than a building project.
I thought that there was going to be three weeks to build these hospitals and then everyone would die gracefully inside them and we'd all crack on with stuff.
I felt quite resentful that I was going to miss out on three weeks of gigs, but I just thought it was, and I was very sick.
I don't believe in COVID, I hope my friends don't see this and we've really crossed the ones that I'm more diplomatic with but I don't believe in it but I was very ill.
My kidneys went, the ambulance came to my house, my children were shitting blood and sometimes I think now as I just frightened but I have the photographs that I was sending to a GP of my children's You know, stools.
So I know that there was illness in my house, even if I ascribe my own illness to psychological things.
So I do think that there was some kind of poisoning, some description, because I know a lot of people that had a similar experience in cities.
I don't really know much of it outside town.
I don't think that there was enough... By the way, if I died, I don't think one measure is justified, and I don't think any experimental drug is justified, and I don't think anything is justified.
But I understand, or I certainly, from my perspective, thought, well, wow, I've been quite ill, and I gave birth without painkillers, I have to get into any conversation I have ever, and...
Thank you.
You're welcome.
And so I did think then, well, they obviously just need these spaces to put these people in and, well, we all crack on with stuff.
It was obviously an absurd thing, but I wasn't really concentrating because I was ill.
I lost a lot of weight.
And anyway, yada, yada, yada, boring.
So, but it never did open up again.
And in those three weeks, I was writing these little diaries just to be funny.
They were very normie diaries but I think, I looked back at them the other day and it took me one week to think this is really peculiar and it's wrong.
And it got worse and worse and it was the Antichrist.
Everything that you would say, you know, I needed a neighbour, were you there?
Everything from my childhood, these hymns or these songs or these ideas of kindness, Or faith.
Or anything that was the inversion of it.
And one day I was on the train and I saw this woman and she was struggling to put this mask on a disabled boy.
He was probably about 18.
He was really struggling.
She wasn't wearing a mask.
I wasn't wearing a mask.
There was no one else in this carriage.
And I said to her, he doesn't need to wear that.
And she said, but it's good for him.
And I burst into tears.
Because I realised then that my whole life I'd absorbed this story where, let's say someone threw their baby out the window, you'd say, oh well it's awful that he did that, but poor guy, he was an alcoholic, he had a difficult childhood.
We sort of always made excuses for people that had done things wrong.
But nobody had ever told me to admire the wrong thing.
No one had ever told me to say, oh wow, this person's making a disabled person suffer.
Aren't they doing a good thing?
And for me, that was the switch.
It wasn't that you weren't supposed to have empathy for people that were doing the wrong thing, or understand their story.
It's that I was suddenly being asked to admire people that were being cruel.
And it was so disgusting to me that I was desperate for a God, if I'm honest.
I remember calling my friend Candy, she's Jewish, and I remember saying to her, listen, I need a God, sell me yours.
And she thought I was joking, but I wasn't.
And where I live, there's You know, I do my printing in the printer shop.
They're Muslim.
They're very religious.
They never bought this because they just weren't interested.
And I would chat a lot to my Pakistani dry cleaner because we were on the same page.
But all of this time I was thinking, well, I know the God I believe in.
He's obviously the God of my childhood, but I don't know why I'm not Anyway, so then I just started crying a lot and then I had lots of strange hallucinatory experiences and it was probably all a bit much for me.
I spent a year crying in churches, James.
Right, but did God answer you?
Yes.
Well, can you tell me about some of the ways he answered you?
Well, I mean, this is very strange.
Yeah, but the supernatural is strange.
I'm very part emotional as well this week, James.
Anyway, I sort of had these hallucinations, I suppose, like daytime waking ones.
Are they called visions?
I don't know what you want to call them.
I wouldn't even be able to explain them really.
I had one where I sort of... It's really funny.
I told someone about this, Tony Morese, very funky guy.
We had a chat on one of his podcasts actually years ago and I went to a club afterwards and the woman said to me, oh someone was saying that you're mental because you were talking about this golden pillar of truth.
I thought, oh sugar, why did I say that?
And then she said, but I want to talk to you about it because I've seen the golden pillar of truth.
It's really funny.
So I saw this sort of golden pillar of truth, I suppose.
It's like a burning garden, I don't know how to describe it.
And what I realised was that the truth is the truth.
It doesn't really matter if I see it or not, it's just there regardless of me.
But once you know that it exists subjectively, it's not some subjective thing, you can't hide from the fact that there is a truth.
You can run away from it, but it exists, irrespective of me.
That was a profound world change, because before then I thought the truth was You know, kind of relative.
As we've been trained to do.
Yeah, and I also saw this.
This is very weird.
I feel very self-conscious now.
I saw this bizarre kind of Buddha-like figure, but with a beard.
Yeah.
Meditating.
And there was this raging red dragon that was Racing up towards this meditating God and God was totally unaffected but this beast was furious and livid and terrifying and I just saw that beast as all of our fear that we were feeding it.
It wasn't that it was going to affect anything but it was just that we were creating it of our own volition and I just didn't want to feed it and ever since then I've just tried to work out ways to not I'm very envious of your visions.
I'd like to see the Golden Pillar of Truth.
It's sort of flaming.
Yeah.
You see, I do think this was probably a bit much for me.
After this, I just started reading a lot and I tried not to really think about it.
It was just a flaming golden pillar that exists.
But surely that's not a foolish insight, that's not an implausible vision.
Because what we're talking about here is that God is truth, God is beauty.
And God is love.
And it's very strange, once you see it, you find all of the... I mean, I'm still getting lots of things wrong, James, and I don't... But I have a horrible ego as well.
Yeah, that's my problem.
I think it's a problem, like a real problem.
Even when I am pleased with myself for getting it under control, I think, oh God, here we go, I'm really proud of myself again.
I've got a lot of weaknesses.
But I think that My children are small, and once you take all the red pills and all the black pills, it's quite hard to invest in the things that a child needs, because I don't know what's going to happen in the world.
I can see what's coming, I can see digital ID, I can see that I'm going to be trapped in my 15-minute neighbourhood.
In the churchyard here, they've put cages around the trees, cages around the roses, they've put up this huge surveillance post with a camera that shouts at the cars if they park in the wrong place.
Shouts at you.
The police are going to come.
You're in the wrong place.
And it's got a solar panel in front of it.
It's got cages around that.
They've put gaffer tape around these posts.
They've got these classic old litter bins, which say litter in gold gilt writing.
They've covered the litter bins with stickers that say litter, litter, litter.
It's as if the place is being vandalised on a daily basis.
And it's to make everything ugly and to put labels, put stickers on everything so that nobody can see anything or even think for a second without some sort of label.
All of this stuff I find revolting but my children are small and you can't be cross all the time and I don't know when the world's going to end.
I don't even know when I should really leave London or I don't know.
And they need to feel loved and cherished and imagine that there's a future which corresponds to their current reality.
And that's why I stopped listening to anything.
I just started playing piano.
And I teach my children the piano.
They have lessons, obviously.
And it's really silly little things that are an investment, that you can see something beautiful, that it wouldn't matter if the world ended tomorrow.
Every second is being spent in a way that you would want to spend it.
And I just want to create beautiful things with good people while I have time.
And I think that the more people that try to do that, Once you're creating anything, you don't want it to break.
And when people want to preserve things, they seem to have more sympathy, I think, for other people that also want to preserve things.
Obviously, you can make people frightened and then threaten to take anything away and they panic and don't know what's what, but I don't think that the things they're threatening to take away are the important things.
It's a very basic I think people don't really understand what's being taken away.
What's being taken away is our fashion of thinking, our memory, the way we construct our thoughts, the way we are prepared to make mistakes, the way we're pleased with ourselves for doing something right now that we got wrong before.
And those are the things that are just being destroyed by, you know, Google searching something instead of thinking about how it might work.
All of these things are just an attack on our conscience.
Have you read Simone Weil, the philosopher?
No.
She wrote this wonderful essay about education, and how the whole purpose of any skill at all is to increase your concentration, because any way that you increase your concentration increases your capacity for prayer.
And once you see things like that, you realise that every attack on our concentration is just a way of attacking our connection to anything higher than ourselves.
Because we can't hold a thought, and if you can't hold a thought, then you can't meditate on a principle, and you can't communicate with your Creator, and you can't do anything.
Yes.
Yes.
It's about slowing things down, I think.
It's funny you mention that.
I've been thinking about this recently.
Are you familiar with fashion?
Oh, my hair doesn't look good.
Sorry.
Hang on.
Is it called Broderie Anglaise?
Yes, I have a very defunct flowers embroidery on glass, yes.
Okay, so my wife came upon this trunk that belonged to a family member of hers and it contained all sorts of stuff going back to the Very early 19th century, including peasants, farmers, smocks, and bridal stuff from the 1850s.
bridal bridal stuff from from the 1850s and all sorts of things and among this stuff was some broderie anglaise and i looked at the stitch work that that went into making this broderie anglaise the The holes surrounding the holes are sort of stitch work, aren't they?
Looped around and around and around.
It must have been an incredibly laborious process.
And one thinks back to what one knows about The pre-industrial age, let's say, when women spent all their time knitting or stitching.
Doing useful things.
And I was thinking, okay, so we've been encouraged to look on this period as one of drudgery and lack of fulfillment and women emancipating from this.
But I think what we're missing Is how much time people had available in the past to think, to just daydream, to get bored, to contemplate, which we don't have?
Listen, I'm terrible at sewing, so I'm glad that I can do something that better suits my skillset, which is just banging on about myself.
I think that if you look at what we're being encouraged to think is culture or emancipation, women have gone.
I think women are, mind you, I say this, I know a lot of perfectly healthy heterosexual males that should be ...confident in going through things and they absolutely think everything's over, that the planet's finished, that everything's a waste of time.
They are muted.
So maybe they're suffering too.
But women have gone properly mental.
So we used to be told that we were hysterical and spent all of our time trying to prove that we weren't hysterical.
And now we're being told that if we're hysterical, It's actually because someone else is mean to us and we should make them suffer.
And it's like watching screaming banshees go insane.
And the vanity, I think that's the female curse.
The constant, you know, she says try not to look at herself in the corner of the screen, but the sort of constant filming of yourself and it taking off.
Clothes off or even complaining about yourself.
I don't think it's more modest to constantly be wanking on about your body.
It's so shallow.
I know somebody who had a baby and spent their whole time reporting on social media how depressed they were.
If they'd just put their phone down for half an hour and gone for a walk, it would have been an improvement on their situation.
But you can't say anything to anybody.
You can't help anybody because they don't want to be helped.
They want to be followed.
And it's a curse.
It's a curse.
I think this whole... Listen, I know some very successful people that have to do a certain amount of social media to maintain this voracious appetite that other people have for gossip and intimate detail.
But firstly, it's not true.
It's all a lie.
And secondly, in real life, you don't look glamorous if you're constantly Having yourself operated on and taking pictures.
You just look barmy.
And you are.
Yeah.
It's the end of culture.
Well, it is, but all this is by design, isn't it?
Of course, yeah.
But it's also by compliance and collaboration.
You don't have to participate in this.
Sorry.
I've been on the facts.
Yeah, good.
You don't have to participate.
You can just...
Actually, on that note, just very briefly, what do you think God's position is on cigarettes?
This is interesting.
I mean, if you've taken all the red pills.
So, I read this fascinating book on the cosmic serpent years ago.
It said, smoking tobacco, all of the spirits attached to you.
I don't know if you're familiar with this idea of entities and everybody has them.
Well, we'll come back to that, but yes, carry on.
They all love tobacco, is the idea.
Bad entities?
Entities.
Oh, entities, okay.
It depends on who wants to attach to you.
So I've heard spiritual, well, I don't know why I'm doing this, very spiritual people, no inverted commas required, who think that smoking is bad because it can disrupt your energy.
But I have great chats when I have a cigarette.
I've met some fascinating people when I've been having a rollie.
And I don't think it's good for me because I'm hacking like an old crone.
And also I don't want my children to know.
So I'm having to spray myself constantly.
But I personally, I have some good chats.
I love having a cigarette after a gig.
I'd rather not have one in secret for breakfast.
All they that love not tobacco and boys are fools.
You know who said that?
No.
Christopher Marlowe.
So he was gay and liked smoking, clearly.
Yeah.
But yeah, I'm very interested in the idea that it attracts entities.
I think the way to get anywhere is to totally purify yourself.
And obviously it's not a purification mechanism, is it?
But I'm very far from purifying myself, James.
So one step at a time.
Well, this is the thing, isn't it?
I mean, do we think that in order to be a good Christian, you really need to go and sit on top of a pillar in the middle of the desert or live in a cave or be like Father Zosima?
In Brothers Karamazov.
Yeah, it's great, isn't it?
Did you notice that the devil takes the vaccine in that bit?
You didn't notice?
I missed that detail.
So you know when he has the hallucination of the devil?
Yeah, yeah.
And the devil's having a chat to him.
He goes, oh yeah, I came, I went to the foundling hospital, had a vaccine, bit of a laugh.
I thought it was because they all say it.
They all say it.
Dostoyevsky says it, Goethe says it, and Farris, that the doctors are murdering everybody and everyone wants to praise them anyway.
All of these great writers through time have had the same thing.
It's like they all know, but they all have to say it in a way that means they won't be called barmy.
And once you see it, you see it everywhere, over and over and over again.
And I think that's the most interesting thing about all of these people that have been sort of removed from our idea of reading, because they have the wrong opinions, or they're too old-fashioned, or they're not multicultural.
And actually, if you go back and read all of these people, they say everything that I now think about science.
Like Ludovici, the English philosopher, With an un-English name.
But if you read all of their work on how science is the new God and how misguided people are and where they're going and that it's basically that it's diabolical and will be the death of us.
Or if you read Robert Musil and he says he wouldn't be surprised if the whole of Western Europe was just God's opportunity to give the devil a chance and see what he could come up with.
But all of these people think that science is a despicable illusion and that everything that it draws into its wake about its own objectivity when it's clearly subjective and that it's the death of civilization itself.
And I think that's probably why we aren't encouraged to read these books anymore and we spend all of our time reading morons that are talking about their dietary habits.
I think that the Russians are more on point than anyone.
I don't know why.
I mean, I'm not a fan of Dickens, but I doubt Dickens has got very much to tell us about anything.
He doesn't.
I'm just reading Oliver Twist.
He certainly doesn't.
I think he crops up the narrative.
Yeah, he's certainly saying that, well, listen, I don't know.
I can't go into, as in mentally, I personally can't.
start panicking about the quality of Oliver Twist.
My son's enjoying it.
It's certainly not Harry Potter, so that's something.
But I definitely think that this idea that reading is to entertain us, that democracy is to inform and raise us, and that anything really in the past that has a firm opinion is corrupting, is all an inversion.
I think that's all totally wrong.
Dickens is just trash for people that like long sentences.
That's fine.
But, obviously, if you want to read something profound, then you go...
To the Russians or to, you know, or to any of the people that were writing when the scientific revolution started who could all, I don't know if you know the Spanish philosopher Cortes, but his books are so phenomenal and you can see that they all saw exactly what was coming.
But this is another reason why I don't want to live every day thinking I'm in a time of the apocalypse because people were saying this in 1850, they saw it exactly as I see things now and a huge amount of time has gone past since then.
It's not for me to put a timeline on things, it's for me to balance the time that I'm living in in a way that I can be productive and not despairing.
I think you're paraphrasing Gandalf and Frodo then in that scene.
Am I?
Yeah, yeah.
There's a famous scene where Frodo says, you know, why do I have to go through all this shit?
I mean, I paraphrase obviously.
Is this Lord of the Rings?
Yeah, yeah.
I haven't read it even.
Gandalf explains to him that, you know, we have to deal with the times that we live in and so on.
And after all, Tolkien had to fight in the First World War, as did C.S.
Lewis.
I wonder how aware they were.
Probably not, because I think it would have been the nail in the coffin, but how aware they were that they were actually participating in a blood sacrifice orchestrated by sinister elites.
Well, who knows?
I didn't even know I was just quoting Tolkien, who I haven't read and haven't seen.
One minute, Colin, I'm just... Well, these are eternal truths.
Sorry, Dave, just let me sort this out.
Yeah, yeah, sure.
Sorry, my friend's coughing.
Your friend's what?
Coughing?
No, no.
Colin's popping in.
It doesn't matter.
You can pop back later.
Do you like Colin looking in on the podcast?
Well, he could have come in and said hi.
Colin does our garden, but he basically parks his car here and we always have a cup of tea.
We're very much on the same team.
Oh, that's good.
And he makes amazing chocolates.
Everyone was eating his chocolates for the last few weeks.
He used to be a chocolatier.
Before we digress onto somewhere else equally fascinating, have you read Anna Karenina recently?
Not recently, but I have read her.
My favourite character is Lieven.
Presumably he's yours as well.
I mean, he's the best, well, the best male character in it anyway.
It's been years, James.
Okay, so Lieven is basically the Tolstoy character and Lieven has this kind of progressive elder brother who's into all the kind of improving schemes that the upper classes are trying to engage in to make, you know, to improve the lot of the poor and stuff.
And they're talking about these sort of, they set up these local councils where they talk about how to, yes, we need a local hospital for the peasants and we need a school.
And Leeuwin's like, I'm really not sure that the peasants actually need a local hospital.
Actually, I think they're better off being left to their own folk remedies.
And I was thinking, yeah, absolutely right.
Tolstoy knew the school.
They all knew the score.
So, my friend Nevi, she's Bulgarian, and my son used to have one of these really terrible fevers because I poisoned him when he was a newborn with a BCG injection that he should never have been given.
And I still went ahead and gave him the MMR, even though I knew how ill I'd made him, and I knew that it was a lie, and I knew that it should never have been administered to him, and I knew that it was suggested to me when I'd just physically given birth and I wasn't thinking straight.
So, and I still didn't realise that they were poisoning us, but he had these terrible fevers for a year until my friend Anna, you know Anna, she detoxed him for me, now he's fine, but actually had terrible fevers for three years until she took it in hand and said you've got to do this and she gave me, actually physically gave me what to give him.
But nobody said just put vinegar on his feet when he has these terrible fevers and they'll go, you know, instead of just cowpoll.
And obviously for a baby or a small child, if you're rubbing their feet with something cold when they're feeling sick, it's already calming, isn't it?
But it does draw out the fever in a way that other things don't.
And it doesn't cost anything.
And it's a bonding moment for you with your child.
And why all of these things are sniffed at as if they're no good.
So my other son fell down the stairs the other day and he got a big shiner and my friend had just put a slice of potato on his head and the bruise went down.
Why don't we all know this?
This is ridiculous!
Well, do you know what?
Even though everything is going to shit, Yeah.
Even then, sometimes the shit things have a way of working in our favour.
So, for example, even though I deplore the amount of time that my children spend looking at TikTok or things like TikTok, Actually, what has been cropping up quite a lot on their TikTok or whatever it is, is videos by Barbara O'Neill.
Do you know Barbara O'Neill?
No.
She's fantastic.
She's an Aussie healer.
She's a Christian.
And she knows all this kind of folk remedy stuff.
So, for example, she was talking about castor oil poultices.
Have you tried one of those?
No.
What's it supposed to do?
They're really, really good.
Because of my various health problems over the years, I've been driven into alternative therapies because, as we all know now, the mainstream medicine is completely corrupt and useless.
How do you persuade someone of that?
My husband, who takes statins, they give him terrible, terrible pains.
He's in physical pain.
Whenever I suggest to him that he should take statins, he thinks I'm deranged.
You can't.
You can't reason or fact bomb people out of the spell.
Or even suggest that they just even look it up.
No.
I have the same problem with members of my family.
There is nothing you can do.
It's why I asked you about why it was you think that you were transformed during the Covid nonsense.
It's a sort of mysterious process.
Well, I think people, when they see something wicked, they think it's short term or an accident.
And the reason that they accept that as an explanation is so that they don't have to take responsibility for it.
They think if someone else is doing it and it's wicked, then actually it's just a temporary thing.
It takes a certain abdication of responsibility to even get to that point.
And it's very difficult to abdicate responsibility when you have children.
I did on the MMR.
I didn't do any research.
I was a thick, ignorant, stupid old cow.
But I don't know how you can imagine I don't know how people didn't see it.
I went back to do a gig in a club, sort of a rugby heavy club, right?
But I used to be frightened of that club.
I once went on stage there after they'd just removed 18 people.
It used to be if they didn't like you, you suffered.
It took me about 8 years to be able to do a full set there before they would book me for a full set.
I used to think that those men were really, it was like a battle and you had to be so confident to win.
And when things reopened, I went and played that club.
And they had these huge men, and they were sitting on these seats.
The seats were two together, with a gap.
And these ginormous men weren't allowed to stand up and go to the bar to buy a pint.
They had to have their pint brought to them in their seats.
And I was gigging to these people who had been castrated, shamelessly castrated, and weren't even objecting.
And I, my friend gave me a lift home and I cried the whole way home saying, this is a turning point.
You have to see how wicked this is.
And I, he'd been there, he'd been on the same stage, he could see the same thing.
He knew that I was right.
Because he'd seen it and just experienced it for himself.
And he went that way and has made a lot of money over the last few years.
And I went the other way.
And I actually did a show with him about a year ago.
And his schtick is that he's a very funny, brilliant guy.
And he makes lots of jokes about being Jewish.
But he's a brilliant guy, one of the best comedians.
And I saw him do a gig where he was saying, oh, it's nothing like the Nazis.
They weren't asking you to show your papers so that you could do something fun.
He was saying to these kids, take your vaccine.
Take it.
Show that you've taken it.
Go clubbing.
Go to the Ministry of Sound.
And I watched this brilliant man with undoubted talent using all of his skill to push a narrative that had elevated him out of his pond.
And I found it breathtakingly disappointing.
And the fascinating thing is that these people that suddenly do well, they are talented.
So they would never be able to accept that the reason they've been elevated is that they're selling a lot.
Because they should have been elevated beforehand.
In their heads, they've just had their break.
So they're so far removed from ever getting it.
Because to ever get that they've been lying, they'd have to realize that actually their moment in the sun wasn't because they got to the end of their path and finally were rewarded.
They actually just Sold themselves.
And they will never be able to accept it.
Ego-wise, it would be their death.
So those people are lost.
All of the people that sold this and whored it for money and success, they are gone.
They're never going to be... I mean, listen, nobody's gone.
People can change their minds.
But I cannot see how they will be able to come back from the choices that they made.
Because that's it.
They've literally sold their soul to the devil.
That's how it works.
That's how the entertainment systems work.
Do you believe that?
I think it... Listen.
I have been told directly that the reason people... I've been told by friends when I was confused because I'd done something good and it hadn't worked out for me.
They said to me directly, we all wear the eye.
I don't go anywhere without it.
I've got the eye everywhere, in everything.
And this, there was a model, it wasn't she married to Orlando Bloom or something, anyway, she just brought out one of these eye necklaces and this is how ignorant I was, James.
I was, I said, what, you've got this eye?
Because my godfather used to have those, you know, the Turkish evil eye.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, rules off the evil eye, supposedly.
Yeah, and I'd seen this necklace, which I thought was nice, and I was like, what?
And I went and bought this necklace.
I got home and I thought, this is so embarrassing and ridiculous.
I went straight back to the shop and returned it, but I still didn't understand because I was so... There's a Chekhov quote where he says, if you see a gun at the beginning of a play, make sure you use it by the end of the play or the audience will be disappointed.
So I'm very aware of symbols and stuff.
But I didn't understand that there was this whole occult.
Even when my friends directly told me that this is what they were doing, I still thought that they were being paranoid.
Like, I know someone that won't touch an avocado stone because they think that that's why they're successful.
So when I heard these things about mansions or midnight, you know, burnings and stuff, I just thought these people were neurotic.
I used to wear lucky socks.
I didn't understand.
And then once I understood, I suddenly looked back at some of their posters, you know, all of this shit and everything.
And that's not me doing that, by the way, it's just me showing you what I mean.
But all of this, all of this stuff, and taking photographs under horns, doing that absolutely everywhere.
I That was frightening for me.
In fact, I don't know if you remember when Boris Johnson, they used to do these sort of leaks every week.
And then the audience, sorry, the public would read about the new thing over the weekend, sort of absorb it from their papers.
And then on the Monday, it would be announced.
And by that point, people are kind of adjusted to it.
And then when it got to October that year, they'd already done local lockdowns for Eids.
That was playing on our subliminal idea that the Muslims were going to mix and get us all sick.
And then they wheeled out Ed Miliband to say, report your neighbours to the States if they meet up, which was obviously because it was just going to be the Jewish New Year the week later.
And then they said, on Halloween, they said, oh, we have to bring our press conference forward because there's been a leak.
But there was always a leak because they leaked every weekend.
But they brought their press conference forward to deliver it on Halloween.
And then they had a national lockdown before the Hindu Festival of Light.
And literally straight afterwards.
And when they did that Halloween lockdown with this midnight legislation before the Hindu Festival of Light, after these specific things against all the religious festivals, it doesn't matter whether I believe in God or not, they certainly believe in what they're doing.
And they show it to you in every single which way.
They show it to you with their symbols, they show it to you with their timings, they show it to you with their Halloween announcements.
But obviously we try and explain that to somebody that doesn't see anything, they think that you're insane.
But I don't know why, because you can see that a church represents Christianity or that you associate things with stuff, so I don't know why there seems to be this gap in people's understanding that there are also occult symbols, but there does seem to be a... Basically I told my husband about the 666 thing and he's never gotten over it and thinks I'm absolutely certifiable.
Yes.
Well, because it's so ubiquitous that people have just sort of absorbed it.
They just sort of think, well, that's how it is.
I mean, you think about heavy metal stars.
Um, doing the beast sign over there, over their audience.
I'm not going to do it, but, but, but the, the, you know, the, the, the forked, the forked fingers, the, the, the mark of the beast.
All of the children copy it and then it just becomes a thing that your children are doing.
It's a bit like the one eye thing.
Here in London now, it's in every single poster.
It's in every advert, whether it's for shampoo, or for this, or for that, or for Eddie Izzard's new show.
There isn't any poster that it's not in.
So to try and explain to somebody that that's a symbol, they wouldn't understand, because for them, how could it be a symbol when it's in everything?
Like, I tried to explain to It was a Balenciaga advert, because that was so profound, and that's obviously an advert, so for people to deliberately put in those things, like the Burl gaffer tape or the bondage bears, the bears didn't accidentally get into the photo shoot.
So I thought that that would be a good way of explaining that if something is designed, put into a design, and paid for as a design, that it might be on purpose.
But I think if you choose not to see anything at all, Then you just don't have to and you can move on to the next thing.
Yeah, yeah.
By the way, I wanted to, before we go, I wanted to say well done on Bob's, Bob Moran's show.
Fun.
Because you sort of co-wrote it with him, didn't you?
Yes, it's been a fun... It was a... Bob Moran, Bob the cartoonist, as I call him, for those, because they'll be American, they'll be American viewers and listeners, I imagine, or Australian ones who may not have heard of Bob's cartoons.
Yeah, but they'll have seen his pictures.
They will!
The picture of the beast, the devil with holding the syringe and the mother and the child in front of it.
Yeah, very good.
I was fascinated to learn from the show that that was, for a period, the world's most shared image.
I know, and isn't it crazy because we don't realise when there's such a blackout on Alternative Voices that those things they're actually doing Being shared in the way that things should be shared to give each other people support.
The more you chat to people, the more you realise that this overarching narrative of constantly being sold is literally a fabrication.
It doesn't really matter what you speak to anybody about, you'll discover that their viewpoints do not coincide with whatever you've been told the majority of viewers.
And if you can't stop talking, I can't stop talking.
I talk to everybody.
It's almost impossible to believe in these ridiculous ideas that all this group think that, all of this group think that.
It's palpable nonsense.
Yeah, I don't like getting optimistic about stuff because I don't think there is much cause for optimism.
I read somebody's substat the other day.
Where he said, yeah, the narrative is falling apart.
No, it's not.
Nobody believes anything anymore.
And then he mentioned Trump as the saviour, and I thought, no, you don't get it.
Well, there it is, believing the narrative.
I think, firstly, the idea of everything falling apart makes people more susceptible to the narrative, so I don't think that's a cause for optimism.
I think that the more confused people feel, the more Desperately are to grab on to some kind of overarching story.
That's why lots of people who did not believe the news during the COVID period were desperately keen on the Russia-Ukraine Story.
I'm not talking about the intricacies of the war now.
I'm talking about they were thrilled they would be able to agree with their family members on something.
They just wanted to be allowed back into the narrative.
And for the people that didn't feel that they were allowed to be back into the narrative on that because they were cautious, they now are so relieved that they can be back into the narrative on this This new war, because they want to be part of a story.
So I don't think that the idea that everybody's norms are crumbling makes people less susceptible.
I think it makes them more susceptible to the all powerful story, whatever that story might be.
But I mean, separately, and perhaps this is the key.
If you don't watch television, And you don't try and overindulge in online fear porn.
You know, if you can switch it off and do something in real life, then you're... I feel much more solid about everything.
How I communicate, how I think, how I breathe.
And I'm just...
I think a lot of people have more in their lives than television, and if you can find those people, it doesn't really matter what they're doing, but they all have something interesting to say and they're not waving a flag.
I totally agree with your point about doing real stuff, like playing the piano.
I'm always looking out for things that are real and enduring and that are outside this corrupted world.
And have value in themselves.
Yeah, yeah.
So the psalms are my hobby.
The psalms are pure.
The psalms are good.
How's that going?
How many have you learnt?
I think I'm on about 18 or 19 at the moment.
As I've progressed I've become more ambitious.
I look at Psalm 37 and whereas before I might have gone, oh, that's way too long, let's find a shorty.
I go, right, the time has come to do Psalm 37.
So I'm in the middle of that.
That's about 40 lines.
And then of course you've got- When did you start?
I'm so competitive, I'll race you.
This has taken me about two years, I think.
And look, I haven't been on the crash programme.
Some of them are easier to learn than others.
Because some of them are quite repetitive, in a good way.
Psalm 118, I really recommend.
I think it's one of the key psalms.
Once you've learned 23 and 91, which are the absolute... Well, the first time I met your sister, she said Psalm 23 with me in the toilet!
That's right!
Which I know, I know that one!
I'll tell you what doesn't happen.
When you learn your first psalm, Psalm 23, and you think, yeah, okay, I'm now protected against demonic activity.
And you are.
But what doesn't happen when you learn lots and lots of psalms and say them every day, is that you don't quite get taken to a next level.
It's not like you suddenly become the equivalent of a saint on top of a pillar in the desert.
Have you... I've started reading lots of... This is the things that are all missing.
They're such good stories.
The story of St.
Francis of Assisi or, you know, the Golden Legend, which is all the stories of the saints.
But if you... When you start to read them, every person is grappling with whatever their weakness is.
So they seem quite harsh if you don't understand the point.
So it seems quite harsh to me that someone could live in a cave for 80 years Meditating, praying every day and then basically thinks he's got to the end of the computer game, celebrates for half a second and then dies in sin because he's been so proud of himself.
So once you understand the actual point, which is that everybody has their own cross to bow, I suppose, and it's not about celebrating your own victory, it's about humbling yourself.
Once you understand that, you don't... If you try and explain a story like The Red Shoe, I don't know if you know it, that Russian folk tale, it's so dark.
This little girl wears red shoes into the church and ends up with wooden feet.
It's absolutely gruesome.
It's brutal.
The Russian fairy stories seem to be much darker than anybody else's.
It's so gross.
This one is so grim.
But if you are looking at them from our perspective, which is that, you know, you're really mean if you don't, I don't know, cut your kid's genitals off.
If you're looking at it from the inverted perspective and the idea that a girl could If you're looking at things from the other side, which is that we're here to try and conquer ourselves, and that the journey never ends, they're quite uplifting because they all resolve themselves in the same way.
That girl, for example, I'm not really keen on this story, but The girl with the red shoes, she does find peace in death, to be fair.
It's not great.
It's not uplifting.
But the stories are to show you that you find peace when you renounce your ego.
But because we're told all the time that it's good to be proud of yourself, and it's good to show off, and it's good to wallow in your weaknesses, we can't even understand It's a parable now.
We can't even understand it.
It seems anathema to us.
It seems almost debauched.
I think that there are some stories of saints now that you could tell somebody and they would think that they were positively nefarious because it's so far removed from what we're saying, which is that your children should twerk confidently and spend the rest of their time trying to become TikTok famous.
We're just in the upside down.
But if you switch it all off when you Actually, look at these extraordinary battles that people have with whatever their issue is.
You know, greed or lack of, you know, so many of them.
I can't think of all of the sins right now.
But anyway.
Lust.
Yeah, well, that happens.
Yeah, I find it hard that To think that one's supposed to be kind of grateful for all the miseries that one suffers because of their potential for enabling you to become a better person, a better Christian.
But that's the deal, isn't it?
I don't know.
When all of this started, honestly, I would have run away and joined a conference, but I couldn't because of my voice and my beauty.
And my light is flashing.
I was going to see whether I can... People get epileptic.
get an epileptic yes so I think it's quite sorry what are you saying okay
There's probably nothing fascinating.
I can't remember.
You're quite good at being fascinating.
I forgot.
I started drawing on my own table and then realised that's the kind of thing I tell my children.
Yeah, well, I think that's one of the things I've got in common with you.
I've got quite a kind of flitty mind.
I don't know.
I sort of, although I hate knowing the stuff that I know, in the sense that I wish I were just living in blissful innocence. - Oh yeah.
Oh no I don't.
I'm quite ashamed of myself.
I'm ashamed of myself.
Ashamed?
Well yeah.
I think it's really ignorant to imagine that you're I think therefore I am.
I don't know if you've read Philip Sherrard but he said that that's the first satanic expression or the ultimate satanic expression of you created yourself and you have no responsibility to anybody or you haven't been created by anybody.
And I actually think it's a strange way to live and it's very short term to think that It's just for here and now.
I don't mean this in terms of you've got to live your own life and not try and predict the future, but I think this idea that there's no value to anything apart from how much money and attention you get and that it's okay to whore yourself as long as you redeem yourself later.
I think it's really hideous.
That's what Raskolnikov thinks, isn't it?
He thinks...
I've got to study...
From a punishment.
Oh, yes.
Yeah, slight spoiler, but he thinks that it's okay to kill the old woman and her daughter, because the money he gains thereby will enable him to do really, really good stuff.
He can become the new Napoleon.
So that's how he justifies himself.
Yes, but that's what a lot of these people think.
They genuinely think.
So look at those people at ARK that have just joined the new thing.
Forget everything else.
Forget who they are, or what they're saying, or what they want.
These people, and it's all people, they really believe... Just two seconds, my friend is back.
This is Jodie.
She's my friend who fell in love with a Moroccan shepherd.
I mean, what a thing to do.
But she's about to go back to Morocco.
It's a disaster for me.
Anyway, these people that join up, they genuinely think, on some level, that they can save things.
Now it doesn't matter if they're bought, sold, what they're pitching.
The idea that it's just a ridiculous, imperialistic, egotistical notion that your crappy little speech is the thing that the world needs.
Nobody needs some new globalists stretching their legs over their village and pissing all over them, whether or not they've got a few gags that they've bought.
These humorless, humorless, you know who I'm talking about, these humorless podcasters, James, that are These people can just be moved around because they're so vain.
I think that it's just the idea that something big is going to be better is the only idea we need to renounce.
If you can just get rid of the idea that someone having a big audience and big plans for big things and a That's already so repugnant.
How can you possibly know what I want where I live because you're drinking champagne in Davos or you're at your silly art conference?
It's so naff.
You're so naff.
It's like that feed the world bullshit.
It's not how you do it.
Actually, maybe it is all lost.
Now I feel really negative again.
No, no.
Tanya, I'm aware that you've got to... Let my friends in and pick up my children.
Yeah, exactly.
And I'm going to go have some lunch.
But I don't say this to all my guests.
In fact, very, very rarely.
But you are, without giving you the Fleetwood Mac treatment again.
I know you like it.
About to get high.
No, you know, you're about to do the chain or whatever.
You are so good and you are so on point and so properly down the rabbit hole.
I mean, I don't have to pick you up.
I don't have to pick you up on normie points.
I don't have to say, Tanya, are you sure?
Have you thought about this carefully enough?
Because actually I think you're fine.
I don't have to do that with you.
You're there already.
I'm saving up to get used to me.
And you can digress brilliantly.
So what I want to say to you is you were very, very hard to track down and do this.
And I have to say it's shit that you've done it on your rubbishy phone.
I know.
But please will you come back?
Pretty soon, and do another one.
We can just talk about completely different stuff, because you were great.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for having me, James.
Where can people find you, see you?
Well, now that I've finished, you know, well not finished, but now that I have a pause, I'm going to go back to my sub stack.
It's called The State We're In, and I was writing them until I got waylaid.
So there's quite a few then.
They're going to start pulling them out every week.
And I just do clubs.
I'm flying to Dublin this weekend.
That brilliant guy, Ada McKillop, used to climb up the mountains and dig in all the people's gardens and fields and stuff, all through the lockdown.
So I'm going to go and do a show for him for awake people in Dublin.
But I'm actually at clubs all the time.
I'm back in the clubs.
I'm allowed back in.
That's great.
Well, I would say, people who haven't seen you, Tanya's really good.
She's funny.
I mean, she's really funny.
You know, not just funny for a woman, but actually...
Actually really good.
Funny despite being a woman.
Funny despite being a woman, yeah.
So I'll put a link to your Substack below and thanks everyone for listening and watching.
I really appreciate your support on Subscribestar, Locals, Substack, it's a good one, Patreon, Buy Me A Coffee.
Please support me because...
I get bored of saying this, but I know it needs to be said because some of you are still thinking, oh yeah, he'll do it anyway and say, well, why do I need to pay?
Well, maybe you should.
Maybe because you like my stuff and you maybe think it's worth it.
