Dick Delingpole is James's brother.
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Welcome to the Dell and Paul with me, James Dell and Paul.
I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest.
But I'm not.
Because it's not a special guest.
It's Dick.
Dick's back.
Hello Dick.
It's not been very long since our last session, has it?
Our last podcast.
Yes, it has.
Has it?
I would like to point out to you, Dick, that however you may feel about the timing... However I measure time?
Yeah, however you measure time, that's right.
I want you to know that... Yeah, you feel those weeks longer than me.
No, it's more than that.
It's not about me, Dick.
It's about the audience.
They all say the same thing.
We want more Dick.
We want it now.
I was getting a lot of love at the Ike Dew.
I was there on my merch stand, which did very well.
Thank you very much everyone who bought stuff.
Even sold one of my prints, which was lovely.
The World War II GI.
I met some fantastic Dick and James fans and at least eight of them said the Dick and James ones were their favourite.
So I, as you know, I'm not supposed to have favourite children.
I love them all equally, but the Dick ones are my favourites.
In fact, I'm thinking that for future reference, we should really think about doing Dick and James shows on the road.
It would have been a lot more fun in Manchester if it had been you on the stage rather than, I mean, you know, no, no disrespect to David Icke.
But the thing is, Dick, you can do the banter.
You can, you can chat, you can do conversations and, and bless him.
And I did, I did, I had rather feared this was going to be the case, but I was hoping to be proved wrong.
David Icke is not, he's not a conversationalist.
He is not Bantasaurus Rex, is he?
He's not.
He's really not.
I mean, he is wonderful and has done amazing things and so much of what he says is spot on, but it doesn't mean that he does the banter or gets you a lot of your stuff straight over his head, but not in an intellectual way, in a sort of like...
When you dropped the line about David, of course, there's been astronauts in space, Neil Armstrong, and he went, yes, well, you can believe that if you like, and they went straight on and he didn't get the James Sark.
He didn't get the James Sark.
At which point, he wasn't going to give you a chance to, and you were going, it was a joke, it was a joke, it was a joke, and he was already back onto it.
He doesn't get you.
But not only does he not get me, but he doesn't listen.
He's so used to, he reminds me of a sort of jukebox where you say a certain sort of key word and it's the equivalent of pressing the button and you hear that
Yeah and then he's... the record plays and there's no stopping the record playing because he's decided what this particular track is and there's no lightness on his feet or responsiveness to... well I mean basic conversational skills.
He can't do it.
I mean you can understand why he's got to where he is because A. he gets mobbed everywhere he goes.
He's had decades of derision and not outright hatred so much as hilarity and piss-taking.
Which is something he likes to milk, even now.
He's he's sure he's comfortable.
Yeah, but he has been the victim big time.
So he's kind of entitled to that.
But it's why he's developed this carapace that's a kind of a protective thing.
And I think the whole, I'm trying to be kind here, the whole going on to pre-prepared script, although it's only in his head, it has been part of his protection.
And I think Bob, A lovely Bob Moran put it best in that message to you, saying why he thinks the thing might have gone the way it did.
Partly it was the banter thing, but also it was the fact that he has absolutely nailed down his view of the way things are.
Yeah.
And there's not going to be any, yeah, never thought of that.
You'll never hear that from him.
He's got everything covered in his worldview.
This is one of the things that I think has been misrepresented in some of the commentary on the show because as you know it's divided people.
People who were both team Ike and team James have found themselves reluctantly forced into taking sides.
I mean some have tried to sit on the fence but and they didn't want it and I didn't want it either but what I kind of Really resent is the idea that I was trying to convert David Icke.
I'm not interested in what...
What David Icke sold.
I mean, I'm curious in an idly curious way, but no more than that.
I'm certainly not going to use a live podcast event to try and turn David Icke to Christ or whatever that.
And he kind of set it up like that.
He used the fact that I'm a Christian against me, like it was an affliction I had, like a failing, that I was stuck in this matrix-like position.
But it wasn't that.
I mean, I would have done exactly the same had I not been a Christian.
All I wanted to do was to hold him to account, to try and get him to explain his outlook.
So, for example, He was talking about how these demonic forces harvest our energy.
They harvest our low vibrations or whatever.
And he tied in adrenochrome with this, and he tied in the kind of the cult that runs the world.
He doesn't like naming the families so much these days.
I wonder whether he's been warned off.
But he talks about how they are, well, Possessed by demons, and the demons use them to advance their cause, which is to kind of suck out the energy of the human race.
Well, I mean, I'm not listening to him say this stuff and thinking, David, you are absolutely crazy.
I cannot engage with this crazy nonsense you are saying.
And he likes to play this game, even when he's talking to an audience of totally awake people.
And when the person on the platform with him is Probably as awake as he is.
He still wants to make out that he's being mocked and scorned and nobody takes his views seriously.
But that's because he's not used to being criticized or questioned from the awake position.
He's used to normies ridiculing him and mocking him.
But he expects awake people to kind of go, yes, David.
Yes.
Three bags.
Yeah.
Oh, that's so wise.
It's a bit like, and I know Wednesday, funnily enough, actually was a third Wednesday.
So I missed my usual trip to Ledbury for it.
Did a little bit of a live cast to the Ledbury gang.
But the point being, when you turn up to a third Wednesday, you haven't got to start having conversations with strangers.
Along the lines of, so what do you think about all this COVID thing then?
You know, you start off at a point that is maybe an hour into a conversation you'd have with anyone else, where you can get to the nitty gritty and you know you've got common ground way, way, way into the conspiracy territory.
And you can actually start to have a much more interesting conversation on a deeper level, straight out of the gate.
That's where you should have been with David.
Well, that's where he should have been.
That's this is the problem.
So I, I gave him a few sort of softball questions at the beginning to try and make him relax and feel like he was among among friends.
Gosh, he went in hard with Wogan.
Well, yeah, but I but well, yeah.
Yeah, but but but so he, I'd heard him talk about that on the internet.
And it was quite Well, it was, I mean, it was a key part to his formation.
No, absolutely.
That he believes, you know, that which does not kill you makes you stronger.
And he thought that, he argued, as I would argue, that tribulation is there to make you a, it's a crucible and it makes you a better person and enables you.
And so I don't think that was an illegitimate question.
I wasn't trying to, I wasn't trying to take the piss.
Although, at the same time, I was trying to fire a gentle shot across his bowels, which is, I was hinting to him, in as nice a way as I could, David, I know you're not really a great conversationalist, but can you try, for my sake, for the show's sake, to keep it a bit kind of pacey and upbeat.
Lighten up a bit, yeah.
There was so much I would have loved to hear him talk about in detail, the lizard people, the satanic bloodlines, the soul trap, about these groups of souls that come down to earth and hang out together because they're old mates and stuff like that.
But because he's so busy rehearsing his spiel, which I think is a spiel, aimed not at a An awake audience, but almost like it needed to be more targeted, more targeted.
It's like he has no sense of who the audience is.
If he'd been addressing a sort of a university in the early days where he wasn't sure of his audience, where many of them had come to take the piss, then yeah, his long, long winded explanations of this or that might have been OK.
I thought we wanted something a bit punchier than that.
We wanted him to cut to the chase and he didn't really ever do it.
It's like a comedian when they do a set that I'm thinking of Rob Newman actually when we I think we saw him at Glastonbury and he went through a set that is normally done in the Palladium or whatever and he was saying so I was in the foyer earlier on and oh Then he had to realize there isn't a foyer.
He's in a bloody tent in Somerset.
And he had to backtrack.
And it's kind of like that.
Remember where you are.
Remember what your audience is.
You should have thought about this earlier.
You're talking to a largely stoned crowd as well, certainly for Glastonbury.
Later on at the Ike Show, if you've got that bit right.
But, you know, personally, I had a really lovely time, much better than you, because We're back with the gang that we love and up north, and I had a lot of fun.
I, to be honest, didn't hear 90% of your talk, and I don't when I'm there doing merch and schmoozing and doing all that stuff.
I get very restless.
I can't sit down.
I'm pacing around.
I'm bumping into people.
I'm meeting people.
So don't quiz me on the details of it, because I only caught little bits that I happened to hear when I wandered through.
Oh, well I was.
I made a list at 55 minutes point oh three.
Do you not remember that bit?
What, when you changed your expression slightly?
I remember that and I was thinking you raised the wrong eyebrow.
Yeah.
Did you like my intro music?
What, the Dambusters theme?
I get Dambusters.
You get Dambusters.
And I said to you, I said to you at the beginning, I said, we can't do this.
Can you work in, can you work in a mention of, of my dog?
The bomber pilots, the leader of that people squadron, his dog.
For some reason you didn't want to do it.
I could maybe have said, Lemmy, Orca, stop playing with that black Labrador.
Leave him alone, whatever his name is.
I think that would have been good.
That would have been very subtle.
I wonder how many people would have got it.
I agree with you, Dick.
I totally agree.
I loved... The thing I always love about these shows is meeting the people, the audience, and that was great.
Really good.
You know, some of my... I've got these dedicated fans.
I think you met the ones that came over from Belfast, I think it was.
The lovely mummy and her boys.
And she'd baked me a cake, which unfortunately somehow got lost on the way, but that would have been good.
Yeah, it would have been lovely.
I liked being in the North, although Manchester isn't that North, is it?
Only if you're from North of Manchester does it fail to be in the North, but Manchester prides itself on being the North, so I think we should give them credit for that.
And I quite like the sort of industrial wasteland hell of it all that we were in.
I went back to get my car the next day.
You have to drive through acres of sewage farm to get to that industrial estate.
It really was the arse end of nowhere.
But actually, once you're inside it, quite a venue.
The outdoors-indoors thing was a really strange thing.
I got a taste of Manchester when, before the show, I was desperate to get something to eat.
I failed.
I tried to get to the supermarket near the hotel, and I went through this car park, which, Manchester's obviously so dangerous, they have to have special codes to get into the car park where you park your car.
And I went through this barrier, like from some dystopian movie, and there were these dystopian kids.
Was it like Clockwork Orange?
It was like that, on their bicycles.
And I thought, ooh, they must know where they're going, up the ramp to the supermarket.
To go and buy some croissants.
And I said, hey, why do you have a go at my mate?
Why do you come at us like that?
And I said, I'm just trying to find that.
I thought you were going to... I thought this was the way to the supermarket.
No, it's not the way to the fucking supermarket.
Leave us alone, you... What do you say?
You skinny bastard.
That's harsh.
These children... Skinny shaming.
They were about 12.
And I was thinking, how feral have you got to be?
How feral and paranoid to see a man in a velvet jacket He's obviously not, not dangerous.
Obviously a soft Southern Jesse.
Obviously a soft Southern Jesse.
Why would you consider him a threat and why would you feel the need to?
They are, they're like, they're like kind of feral, feral creatures.
Yeah, the rats, they are, yeah.
They were in the underground car park, like rats.
Oh we loved, did we not love, did we not love the taxi driver on the way back?
Our taxi driver, young Afghan.
Yeah, and he told us things, because we like chatting to taxi drivers about... We do the thing you're not supposed to do, the where are you from thing.
It's like, you can't ask that, you can't reveal that you've noticed he might not be from around here.
That's so insulting.
That's like racist.
But anyway, he turned out to be from Afghanistan.
He got out when the Taliban last came in because it was getting a bit hairy.
His British passport got him an airlift with the army.
And the best thing he said was it was so much better under the Russians.
Yeah.
Because they were They were actually building stuff and improving the place.
And you never hear that, do you?
Well, no, no.
I've never heard that before.
We've always got it sold to us as... The Russians were more brutal than ever the Americans were.
Well, we saw it, didn't we?
And was it Rambo 3 or 2?
Do you remember that film you got me to watch on the Russians in Afghanistan?
I think it was called Platoon 9 or something like that.
9 Platoon.
The one right at the beginning where they're watching their mates take off on the plane home.
Yeah, is that how it goes?
I can't remember, but it's a hard sort of, it's good, hard ass sort of like deeply embedded with the with the fighting men, completely outnumbered by Taliban and just the grimness of it.
But from a Russian perspective, it was and you are completely with the Russians, you know, you're you're siding with them, obviously.
But they do do.
Good war movies, the Russians.
Now, I haven't seen it and I kind of don't want to see it anymore because I've gone off war, but have you heard of that film Come and See?
Yeah.
Have you seen it?
No, I don't think I have, or I may have done actually.
I can't remember.
Do you know where Come and See comes from?
I'm gonna say oh yeah when you tell me because it's hanging in there at the back of my mind.
It's a kind of key book in the Bible.
Oh right.
Oh gosh.
Dick, if it's a war movie, what book of the Bible is it going to be?
It could be any of them with the amount of war in there.
Genesis.
No!
New Testament.
Yeah.
Oh, is it Revelation?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
It's funny, isn't it?
I recognised the movie title when I was reading Revelation.
Just going back to the thing about how you're not supposed to ask people where they're from or whatever.
So there's a black guy in... Why did you know?
He's really dark-skinned.
He's really dark-skinned.
You weren't assuming his colour, were you?
No, I wasn't.
He's definitely black.
And both Boy and I have great chats with him, which is why I don't want to give his name because I don't want to blow his secret, but he's fantastic and I love him because he's awake.
And he's about the only weight person in the gym or whatever, in the spa.
And he's married to this very fit sort of Scandinavian looking girl.
And she's been pregnant for the last nine months.
So we've been waiting for the baby to drop.
And the baby is not going to be vaxxed, which is great, because I had a chat with him about that.
And he said, you think?
I said, definitely don't, really don't, whatever.
He said, yeah, that sort of, that accords with what I was thinking.
But yeah, it's good to have it confirmed.
Anyway, so Boy and I bump into him in the supermarket and I said, have you actually dropped yet?
He said, yeah, yeah, it's fantastic.
Oh, I'm on a cloud.
I'm on a cloud.
And so Boy is asking these polite questions and I say, and what colour is it?
And Boy is absolutely cringing that the first question I ask is, But the guy, whose name I'm not going to mention, it's the most obvious question in the world because it's exactly what he was thinking, you know, and he said, yeah, well, it's not, he's not so, he's not so dark at the moment, but don't you worry, the melanin is going to kick in soon.
You see, he's okay as long as, I think the moment you realise it has just come from a place of pure curiosity that everyone would have, whether they would admit to it or not.
You asked a question because there is no, well, A, you have no filter, but B, you are honest.
Yes, but also, there wasn't a beat where he was going, should I be answering this question?
It was absolutely normal.
How dare you?
Yeah, how dare you?
One of the many ways that they undermine our a sort of sense of security um is is to create this this world where you're not supposed to talk about these details which which actually all you want to talk about because they're interesting self-censorship isn't it it's just um yeah anyway um it it's good the the I'm really looking forward to seeing his baby.
I'm going to get my Pantone chart.
And take it with you every time so you can get the updates to see when that melanin is kicking in.
And when do you think the blonde hair is going to grow out?
Yes, yes, exactly.
So we haven't talked about the drama.
The drama that happened after.
I was talking to the wife about this.
I said, do you think we're going to be allowed to talk about that?
She said, well, you certainly can't start it.
I said, God, no, I wouldn't open with it.
But yeah, it's... Well, it was a key, to be fair, it was a key, key feature.
So, so... Key feature!
Before, before we went up to the, to the, the Ike Show, I had been warned by the wife said, don't come back completely ruined by partying all night because I have no sympathy for you whatsoever.
You know, if you're going to be ill, if you're going to be ill, having had fun with your friends, don't expect me to be happy.
So I thought, right, okay, I got my message.
So, um, Well, you announced it, didn't you?
You said, I want to be in bed by midnight.
I did.
I'm not going to do anything stupid up until 2 or 3 a.m.
That's right.
We all went.
Yeah.
There was a proposal to go to a casino, which I knew would have been ruinous.
And the casino, I think, opened at 12 o'clock at midnight.
So, yeah.
So you don't go, I'll just nip in for 10 minutes.
And I'm only going to have a drink.
I'm not going to go anywhere near the slots or the tables.
Can you imagine?
The problem about doing these on stage things is try to relax, try to relax that you might.
You end up getting completely wired, especially when there's been a bit of tension as there was in the latter half of the show between me and David.
So afterwards, you want to kind of come down and I thought, well, I'll have a, I'll have a beer and that will help, but I really need a smoke to, so I can get to sleep.
And, um, so we, we get, I'd been good.
I'd only had one pint and we got back to the hotel and somebody, I'm not going to name the person's name.
They know who they are.
They gave me this, Ready rolled reefer.
And I'm used to smoking stuff with kind of lots of tobacco and a homeopathic smear or crumble of weed in it.
And unfortunately, these were pure Pure gross.
Homeopathic only on the tobacco front.
Yes, well, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, and because I was in that state of mind where I was already so kind of wired and fraught and stuff, the little voice in the head would go, hang on a second, only have one puff of that and then wait 10 minutes to see what it, so I was like, nothing happened.
Yeah, that's fine.
And nothing did happen.
And I'm sort of standing around having chat when suddenly I go, Oh, no.
Oh, no.
It's just starting to kick in now.
And there's a lot more where, where that came from.
And I was trying to think, can I go to bed?
Can I get myself And I realized I was already too far gone for that.
So then I looked around the room, seeking comfort, seeing whether you would be available for a conversation, which might, and you were just, you weren't there.
You were just being uncaring.
I don't know what you were doing.
But why didn't you warn me?
Why didn't you say to me?
I didn't know that's what you were doing.
I was happily in conversation with you.
But before that, when I was smoking it with you outside, why did you not know that?
Why did you not warn me?
I thought you'd know better by now, by watching the fact that it's normally me doing that.
Yes, I rely on you to be the bellwether.
Yeah, and in the past I have been.
I've been the one whiteying.
When I turned up to Abi's party, I arrived an hour after you and by the time I arrived you'd been the guinea pig and you'd already pulled a whitey.
I was there, white as a sheet with my head between my knees, breathing deeply while someone stood behind me stroking my back, rubbing my back, going it's going to be alright.
So I knew then... We're pathetically lightweight, aren't we?
I won't have whatever Dick's having.
So that was my warning.
You didn't perform your function this time.
So you must have watched me smoking this stuff.
No, because obviously you weren't doing it in the hotel and it was... I was in the hotel having a lovely drink and No, but Dick, we had it out.
You and I were standing together, talking, smoking outside.
So you can't say that you weren't there when it happened, because you were.
It was a bit afterwards when you weren't there.
It must have come a fair bit later then.
Yes, that's the thing.
It was delayed, I would say, by at least 10 minutes, possibly 15 minutes.
That's a long time.
It is a long time, which is why I felt safe, until I wasn't.
So I looked around trying to find some solace and realized that that wasn't going to happen.
And then I started going.
And the next thing I knew, I was lying on the floor with all these voices saying, is he, is he dead?
Is he?
So tell me what happened from the, from the, from.
Okay.
So I was, we were all sat in the bar, the foyer sort of area, and there's a really loud crash.
I thought one of those bloody yobs has got in and they're smashing things.
Sounded like someone had come in and thrown a dustbin into the foyer, then run off.
A dustbin full of things.
Yeah.
And I was, how rude.
Anyway, I carried on my conversation.
Then it became clear pretty quickly that the noise was someone passing out and hitting a metal sign on their way down.
It was a sign for breakfast.
Of what you could have for breakfast.
I hit the scrambled egg.
You hit the scrambled egg!
Imagine if that sign hadn't been there.
Well, you'd have taken out the wall.
I'd have hit the corner of the wall.
So it's like, it's like God was protecting me.
It was a sign!
It was a sign.
Well, the devils, the devil, the demons tried to get me.
But all they were allowed to do was to make me hit the scramble leg on the standing up sign thing.
Yeah.
Which is a relief.
It wasn't the most comfortable thing you could have hit.
It was nice to have your falls broken slightly.
Did I actually pass out, do you think?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Only for less than a minute.
Right.
But obviously at that point, everyone's gathering around.
Everyone wants to do something, but no one knows what to do.
But having been in that situation myself, actually, the person who is most alright is the passed out person, because as you say, you're hearing, you get everything, you can hear everything that's being said around you, but you're absolutely helpless to say anything, because you can't, you know, your speech hasn't come back, your sight probably hasn't come back at that point, but inside you're saying, look, I'm going to be alright, my system is just resetting right now, I'm rebooting,
I'm an old computer.
This is going to take a lot longer than it might for most of you.
But whatever you do, don't call an ambulance.
I'm going to be all right.
Now, in amongst the crowd at the bar was a lovely young nurse and she and her mate were there and they were pretty pissed themselves.
And the one was going, let her do her stuff.
She's a nurse.
Oh, she's a nurse.
She didn't realize she was talking to the biggest crowd of anti-health service people that she could possibly be talking to.
So telling us someone was a nurse was probably just sort of like, yeah, have you got anyone who could actually be useful?
Because all she wanted to do was call an ambulance and that would have been the worst thing that could have happened.
So time and again, she said, do you remember falling?
And he went, no, he doesn't remember falling.
I think at one point she was even on the phone to the paramedics who were on their way.
I'm afraid she was, Dick, because this was when I started, that was the point where I started recovering and slightly worrying.
Up until that point I'd be going, yeah, it's kind of great because they all love me and they're all with me and they're all saying worried things about me and isn't it nice and I'm fine.
But then I had this voice saying, Do you want an ambulance?
Do you?
They want to know.
A lot of us around were saying, whatever you do, don't bring an ambulance.
I've been here before and it's a relatively quick recovery.
And all you'd have had was the moment you'd have seen a paramedic in that green uniform.
Oh no!
It was just Sent you into a spin.
They've probably given me midazolam or something.
That's the thing.
Halfway for this one.
As soon as they knew who I was it would be midazolam.
End of life treatment for this one.
So that's an awful thing.
That is a sort of mini version of everyone's terror where they're in a coma and they're perfectly You know, lucid in their head.
They just can't communicate with the outside world.
And they hear the people saying, I think we may have to, we've lost him.
We may have to turn off the live support.
And you're thinking, no, no, but I can't move.
I can't.
And that was how I felt on a smaller scale.
With this, no ambulance.
I don't want the ambulance.
Just to put the record straight for our lovely little nurse friend.
She didn't call the ambulance.
The hotel did.
I think it's probably something they have to do.
Oh, protocol.
And so she had to deal with them.
And then, although a few of us were saying, he's just had a whitey, she was at the bar with us later.
She said, why didn't you bloody say just had a whitey?
No one said!
I told you and it was like... but it was kind of like not the sort of thing you want to be broadcasting at that point because it's a slightly shameful thing if he was doing something... Yeah because nobody in Manchester smokes drugs.
That's the thing.
Well you know... Nobody.
They just don't.
He's doing it and he's telling the world.
Drugs haven't reached that far north yet.
Yeah I know and they're Very naive people.
Wait till they discover them, they'll be very excited.
They'll go nuts for it.
It might even disbar some kind of music scene.
So anyway, once we got you round, once you turned from this really nasty pale green, sort of for the colour that my walls are here, you were kind of that.
Right.
Yeah.
And eventually you turned to that sort of colour.
And then a little bit of pink was coming in.
You're at the sort of recent cadaver stage of color.
We kind of at that point thought he's almost certainly going to make it.
At which point we all started posing for photos with you, because we wanted to commemorate the moment and say, I was there.
And we had some lovely pictures.
No, you mustn't release them.
They must never see the light of day.
They must never see the light of day, partly because they look like those Victorian photos where someone has got the recently deceased and they're all posing for photos with them.
It was very much like that.
And Bob pointed out that he's never seen me looking so perky and cheerful.
And it was partly because it was just that it's not me this time sort of thing.
Oh, but you haven't told people the secret of how to pull somebody out of a whitey.
Well, they told me both the last times I whited.
It's because you've had too much THC you need the CBD so available over-the-counter or off-the-shelf in any chemist CBD oil on the tongue a few drops and it's almost immediate revival and sure enough the color came to your cheeks one of our party had some with with them and
It was an absolute miracle cure to the point which people going around saying, bloody hell, I've never seen anything work quite so quickly.
And it really is.
It's Hollywood level immediate cure sort of.
Yeah, well, that wouldn't happen in real life, but it kind of was.
It was.
Yeah.
And isn't it wonderful having an awake crowd because they are the kind of people who are going to have in their in their handbags or whatever.
Not only CBD oil, but also the arnica.
It wasn't so much a gaping head wound, but the one that would have been the bruisey bit.
Yeah.
I think it helped tremendously.
So have you seen the Mitchell and Webb sketch?
The homeopathic ER?
Yes.
So quickly, get me some crystals.
I need to check his lifeline.
Arnica.
We need Arnica straight away.
Except they were mocking it.
But we know.
They were mocking it.
This was for real.
And it worked.
And it works.
I can honestly say now.
That in a perverse way it was one of my favourite parts of the whole evening.
It kind of brought it to... I'll tell you what... Because it's all about you!
Well it was a lot less stressful than having to try and Get David Icke to say something.
It really was.
That really was like trying to get blood from a stone.
And it was very frustrating.
This is not to my credit.
I did get quite testy towards the end.
And it was a mark of my frustration because I wanted to nip in Terrier-like with all these questions which he could give me quickfire answers to but he won't let you in because he won't he won't make eye contact with you and it's very hard to interrupt somebody.
Eye contact?
Yeah he won't make eye contact.
But what it meant was that we couldn't have that to and fro and exchange of ideas and meeting of minds, which I so wanted to happen.
That was what really upset me about the evening.
We'd been on similar journeys.
He's obviously much more dramatic than mine and he's sort of suffered a lot more, at least in the early days, although now I think he's reaping the benefits.
I don't really feel sorry for him anymore.
He's done quite well out of it and I don't think he gets given a hard time anymore because the people he talks to are all completely on side.
I think he's got the opposite problem now.
He's got too much, too much adulation and not enough questioning.
But I did find it very, very frustrating to the point where at one point I said, Well, my wife's going to be pleased.
There's no danger of me ever becoming the new David Icke, I said, I said, slightly petulantly.
But I was, I was frustrated, because what I wanted, I wanted to be seduced by his arguments.
I'm open to up to anything, you know, I mean, I like what he had to say about the moon, about the moon being A hologram or whatever.
I'm not sitting there going, David, you are mad.
You are completely bonkers.
I'm going, this is interesting.
And in the same way, I kind of wanted him to explain to me his version of events.
So when he says that we're living in a simulation, so we're like living in a giant video game effectively, I'd like to know who he thinks the video game designer was, who programmed all this information, and what was his goal, what were his intentions, what's the game plan?
Because it seems to me that we all have this capability of being much, much better than NPCs, that we're really, well, how like a god in apprehension, as the person calling himself Shakespeare puts it.
That we have these extraordinary mental capacities.
And why would a game designer give us this stuff if all we were there to do was to feed demons with our energy?
And if the ultimate goal is just to transcend this by realizing it's all a simulation and being sort of assumed into the great beyond, and I don't know.
It doesn't seem to be a very sort of satisfying theory because it misses the key.
He's very good at describing the watch.
You know, this is how it is.
This is the deal.
I, David, I say so.
But he won't engage with the why.
And I think we need that.
And that's what I was looking for.
And also, we kind of need a and what can we do about it type of thing.
I mean, I am currently trying to read his latest book, The Dream, because it got sent to me.
It's like with all his stuff, 90% is you can just about get your head around it.
Then you get hit by the last 10%.
So this idea that everything is frequencies and vibrations, and he uses the analogy that You know, you've got the visible spectrum all around you, what we can see.
But if you were to tune a television, if you would bring a TV into the room and tune it, it would pick up the TV signals.
Now, you know they're there, but you can't see them.
But with a TV, you can see them.
So you're already accepting that there's other things going on in our space.
Well, these entities are existing in our space.
All fine with that.
But then there's the thing we're asked to believe that We are all essentially projections.
We're not really there.
Everything gives an illusion.
Therefore, why do I bump my leg when I walk into a chair?
Surely with the right mental training I could walk through that chair.
Yeah.
But if by chapter four we could have got to the bit of how can I move through solid objects, I think I'd definitely be buying that.
It's kind of the 10% that I can't get through.
You had me up until that point, but it's a tough one to be told that everything, everything is just programming and an illusion and not really there.
But you also ask, well, why in that case should I bother getting up in the morning?
Why can't I just lie in bed?
And just imagine that I'm running around.
You certainly wouldn't want to pay your taxes, would you?
You certainly wouldn't bother doing the whole go-to-work thing.
Oh, is there someone climbing up outside your window?
But that wouldn't matter so much.
It's more, what is the point of existence?
He doesn't make a compelling case for living at all.
If it's all imaginary, we might as well just have virtual reality.
And yet, what we've got with our whole Christian thing, not wanting to bore on about that too much, is a fairly coherent why things are the way they are, why you are the way you are, how to be better, and what the end result will be.
It's pretty much all nailed down, isn't it?
And has been in place for a couple of centuries.
And there's a lot of people better than us who have believed in that for a lot longer than us.
And they built these huge buildings to celebrate that.
So, you know, and against that is David Icke.
And it's kind of a big ask to overturn centuries of thinking in favor of that.
So, you know, he's on a hiding to nothing with a committed Christian.
But there was definitely common ground that could have been enjoyed.
Well, you see, this is one of the things that troubles me, that I don't like the idea, because I think it's unfair, that this is an argument about Christians versus non-Christians.
I agree that there is a coherency.
In the Christian worldview, that it makes sense to me, it makes intellectual sense to me.
Why is there evil?
Well, because of the fallen angels and because we live in a dualistic world where every force has an opposite and that makes sense and connected with that is the notion of free will.
Who are these demons and these alien-like creatures?
Well, they are manifestations of the Nephilim who are, you know, the offshoots of fallen angels.
Why do we feel love and why are we drawn towards truth and beauty?
Because those are manifestations of God who made us in his image.
And so on.
So there's an internal consistency in my philosophy.
And I would have been happy if David Icke had wanted to point out where it doesn't work.
But equally, I think if you're going to say that everything is a simulation, really the onus is on you to explain why there is a simulation, how it came about.
Because somebody really clever must have been, some power must have been, did this power just sort of spring up?
And if he'd been prepared to say to me something like, yeah, the reason that he gave humans all these sophisticated, or humans as he calls them, gave them all these sophisticated skills, made them love and made them aware of good and bad and stuff, is he's made them love and made them aware of good and bad and stuff, is And he wanted to just torment us and just kind of give us these expectations which can never be fulfilled yet.
Yeah, he's a sadist.
I would have gone, well at least you're explaining your position, but instead his response to that question was, I'm just going to blather on and ignore it as if it doesn't matter.
That was my problem.
It's the old trick of when you're in hostile territory, like you being interviewed by the BBC, it's kind of like a Don't answer the question they ask, give them the answer that you were going to give before they even answered the question.
It's kind of a politician-y thing as well, isn't it?
Get your message across at all costs.
Don't get distracted by the question.
So, but that takes us back to the know your audience because I don't think it was anywhere near as hostile as he might have assumed it was.
That's the problem.
I was not a hostile interview.
I came genuine.
I've been given grief on Twitter by Jamie Icke, his son, sort of saying, yeah, and you made, you know, tried to be chummy with my dad and then you turned on him.
Well, An intelligent reading of that would be not James Dallingpole as a snake who seduced David with his wiles into coming onto this stage under a false prospectus and he fooled him into thinking, I really, really wanted to get on with David Icke.
And I was really interested in having an exchange of ideas.
And I'm sympathetic to a lot of the stuff that he says.
And I think he's done great work.
My problem was simply that he didn't deliver.
He wouldn't talk to me.
He wouldn't treat me as a sort of human being.
I was just a kind of an NPC, as far as he was concerned.
I might as well not have been there, frankly.
I think you both needed to know a little bit more about each other.
You needed to have read more.
I know you can't do that amount of research into every guest and to be expected to have read a whole book would be another thing altogether, but it would be More fortunate if you had, and for him to at least know the j... I don't think so, because look, here's the thing, if he cannot explain in two minutes why it is that we live in a simulation, who's behind all this, if he can't do that, then that's not really my failing.
Yeah, but it's... what happened wouldn't have happened to the... well, not that anything terrible happened, but You might not have gone in the way you did had you already known his full set of theories and beliefs.
And if he knew you were a lighter touch, that you would do this sort of slightly banterish, piss-taking, sort of like chummy approach to a completely honest interview, He wouldn't have had his defenses up so strongly.
I know I'm doing this idealistic, if only both of you knew each other a bit better, but that would have been the case.
He'd have given a bit more and you wouldn't have got so frustrated with him.
I don't think he would.
That's the problem.
I don't think he's actually capable of it.
I don't think he's ever given... I suppose he considers them to be interviews, doesn't he?
And I don't really like doing interviews.
I mean, I always make a point that I don't do interviews, I do conversations.
In the podcasts of his I've listened to, I've never ever heard him do the chat.
He does go into these.
I just hope that I will be the one that changed the rule.
That because he because he knew vaguely that I was down the rabbit hole, that he wouldn't treat me like a normie, which he did, you know, the Neil Armstrong joke that I made.
And by the way, I was quite a lot of his When he's sort of trying to demonstrate why what he was saying is true, he keeps invoking scientists and talking about scientists say that this is.
And at one point he mentioned Einstein.
He quotes Einstein.
And at another point he quotes a NASA scientist on the moon.
And I'm thinking, well, hang on, David.
If you're really down the rabbit hole, if you're as far down as you claim, why are you quoting a guy, Albert Einstein, who we know was not for real?
We know that he was a distraction from Tesla.
He was set up by the establishment to do the thing.
So why are you quoting Einstein science at me when we know there's something dodgy about it?
And in the same way, why are you quoting NASA scientists when you know that nobody's been to the moon?
So what's that all about?
So I left feeling... Well, again, it's for a normie audience, isn't it?
That whole approach is for, look, the people, even the people you trust say this.
But unfortunately, in invoking them, you have to say that you trust them as well, to some degree.
But yeah, no, I was in there for that bit and it did strike me as a very valid point on your part.
I mean, with hindsight, I should never have done it.
And the reason I should never have done it is because I should never be on the stage with somebody who can't do a conversation.
Ever.
I mean, even if I got the most famous person in the world, if they can't converse, then I don't care what the audience thinks.
I care about what I think.
If I'm going to be on a stage talking to somebody for 90 minutes, I want a conversation.
I don't want it to be an ordeal.
And I don't want it to be someone else's monologue, because they can go and do the monologues on their own time.
That's fine.
You'd have been much better.
Bob would have been much better.
Well, obviously, that's a given.
And I don't think I really need sort of name draws guests to I think people come along for the crack, not for the... and the weed, obviously, but mainly for the crack.
You want to say, well, what am I going to learn from this podcast?
Tell me something I don't know.
And they've all got to deliver that to some degree.
But if you're a David Icke fan, you were going to hear nothing new.
And if you were a Delling Pod fan, then you were going to be frustrated that there wasn't the banter that you've come along for.
There was no banter.
Yeah.
So that's why we've got this now.
We've got banter now.
We've got you and me doing the post-mortem, which could so easily have been your own post-mortem, had the CBD oil not arrived.
I tell you what, Dick, if that was a foretaste of death, then it's quite fun.
Because what happened was I had these ministering angels either side of me.
I had these girls Holding your hands, stroking the back of your hand.
And I was thinking, oh, I'm quite enjoying this and I'm not going to open my eyes because I'll spin it out a bit longer.
I was taking the piss out of that later when you'd gone off to bed.
You bastard.
The others were saying, are you going to come and join us over here?
And I was like, oh, I'm feeling a bit weak.
Do you think two of you girls could come over and hold my hands for a bit?
It was great.
I'll be riffing off that for years to come.
You've got such a bad reputation as a couple of lightweights.
There was a poor girl called, one of them was Belle.
And Belle, I think, didn't know me well.
She'd never met me before.
And I think she'd rather been hoping to spend the last part of her evening at the bar engaged in conversation.
Rather than turning into instant nurse.
And she had to kneel on the floor because I obviously couldn't move.
And so she got knee ache or whatever and got all stiff.
Holding the hand, the clammy hand of this It is a strange thing when you pass out that way.
You're sweaty but cold.
It's a horrible thing.
I was sweaty but cold.
it's uh it's yeah and then i wanted to go to bed but somebody said to me um oh i'm not sure you should go to sleep yet because you might have and you read about this don't you things like that yeah like you read stories about how yeah and then he went to bed and then we found him with his tongue down his throat It was blue and it was horrible.
And so I then had to debate because I was... We all pictured that.
We all went through the stage of like, God, I hope he's still alive in the morning because it's going to look terrible on us if he's not.
Apparently there was a point, I hope this is true, where Abby, Thought I was dead and cried.
And that was nice.
Yes, it was.
I can vouch for that.
She cried and then she said a prayer for me, which is nice.
Oh yeah, there were more than one people praying for you.
That's good, that's good.
It's nice to know that.
It's nice to be wanted.
So I then had this dilemma and poor old Helen, Our sister, our lovely, you know, the nice darling Paul, the really nice caring one.
Nicer than both of us put together.
She really looked after me and she said, do you think maybe you should sleep in my twin room so that if you kind of have problems in the night that I'm there for you?
I said, yeah, I think that's a good idea.
So we went up to my room On the top floor, which I was worried about because I thought one of the, you know, an MKUltra assassin.
I don't know why they put you up there.
Anyway, I went up to my room, got my pyjamas and my Bible and went down to Helen's room.
I was about to settle into bed and I said, I don't like this noise.
It's a funny noise I can hear.
I think I prefer my room.
So we then had to go through the process again of sort of unpicking your room.
Patience of a saint she took you back up to your room.
I went back up to my room and I thought there's a funny noise in here too but I better not say that.
At that point we knew you were probably not going to die in the night.
Yeah, but you would have felt a twin.
With our lovely nursey friend and her friend who was more pissed than her.
The more pissed than her friend said, is your brother all right?
And I went, he's in a better place now.
She said, what?
He is with the angels.
What?
She was utterly horrified.
I don't know if she was hamming it up, but she got deeply upset.
And her friend, the actual nurse, had to say, no, no, calm down, calm down.
It's just an expression for for being on the sixth floor with the angels.
That's just something we say.
And I was like, no, no, he's with Harambee with the angles.
And I'm thinking, If my brother had just died, do you think I'd still be down here drinking Guinness and saying he's gone to a better place?
Yes, you would.
You would.
You would be saying it's what he would have wanted.
No, I'd be going through your pockets.
It's what he would have wanted you to be saying.
By the way, I think I want to dedicate this episode to the memory of... Did you ever meet Mike Daunt?
I don't know.
I did a podcast with him.
Maybe I did too, actually.
Mike Daunt was a splendid chap who taught me how to fly fish and how to dive.
Oh yes, okay, yeah, yeah.
He's got some nickname, the bastard fisher or something, yeah.
yeah the old he wrote a book called about the barton the bounder um right that one yeah he was the bounder and he's very colorful and he's he's he's He died happily in his sleep, so no pain.
But he was a thoroughly splendid chap.
He taught to fish, get this, he taught me, the Duchess of Devonshire, Chris Tarrant and Eric Clapton how to fly fish.
All at the same time?
Can you imagine what that was like?
What a weekend that was!
Elbowing each other aside to try and get a stretch on our particular beat.
That time you pushed the Duchess of Devonshire into the river.
What river was this that you were on?
It was not the Test, it was the Itching.
So I have this skill, how to double spade Cast which is what you used to catch salmon, but I've never been anywhere near where you might catch salmon Or I think maybe I was once but I didn't catch anything So I've got this I've got this you're as good at salmon fishing as you are at hunting foxes Equally as successful.
Yeah, no salmon.
No foxes Anyway, I just wanted to say I will miss you very much Mike But I'm glad that you sort of died in your sleep.
We should all pray for the same.
Because we don't always get that easy an exit.
We're going to get eaten by lions, Dick.
You know that.
I'm hoping it's not that.
As much as I like lions, it's not the way I want to go.
Wouldn't you rather that than little mice?
Have we got to be eaten by something?
Is this what you've decided?
Or, if it were bullet ants?
No, I don't like any of the ends you've got in mind.
Going out down in a hail of bullets as I leave the trench.
At least it's quick and glorious in its own way.
Like Les Miserables or something.
Do you hear the people sing or something?
That kind of stuff.
I've never actually seen Les Mis, but I kind of vaguely know its stuff.
Anyway, we've just hit the hour.
We normally do an hour.
Leave them wanting more, I say.
And I've got my evening pub session, even though you'd think I'd have had enough booze this week, but it's a habit, really.
It's a way of putting a full stop on the week.
As I did that, I could feel the bump.
Oh, you found your... Oh, and another thing, someone on your telegram apparently said how disrespectful it was that you... Arms back, and then just taking the piss out of David Icke.
If I'd been there, I would have pointed out that it's something you do because your back is so screwed up.
But I don't think people get that, that you are not comfortable sitting down.
No.
And you need to do stuff for your back.
But I get that.
Yet again, these are things that I get about you that others might not.
So yeah, that message can get back to that.
Yeah.
But I think I think it just by way of conclusion, I totally did not.
I intend to take the piss out of, well, I mean no more than I would take the piss out of you, out of David Icke.
You know, I did not come there to mock him.
I just wanted to ask some questions and kind of get on with him in an amusing way on stage, but it just wasn't going to happen.
It would be lovely if you had ended up besties, but it was never on the cards.
No, it wasn't.
We're quite different, aren't we?
Just a bit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, I'm glad we've got that and it might be used as a sort of point of reference for the Wednesday.
So hopefully we set the record straight to some degree.
Good.
Okay.
Right.
Okay.
Bye.
Bye.
Lovely audience.
Bye.
Bye.
Lovely audience.
We love you.
Oh, yeah.
And if you want to support me, and I hope you do, do the usual thing.
Buy me a coffee.
One of the others.
Locals.
Patreon.
Subscribe style.
Um, I really appreciate it when you do.
Thanks a lot.
Okay.
Bye bye.
Bye.
Oh, um, where's the thing?
These things normally go out and I quite like the end bits where it's all going badly wrong.
- Is that right?
- For gift you'd never bother.
Yeah.
You talking to your guest about- - Oh no. - I think it's recorded.
- I don't know where, how do I stop it?
- You're not gonna now tell me it hasn't recorded, are you?
That would be... No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
It has.
Oh, OK.
Oh, remind me tomorrow.
Fuck off.
I hate it when it does that.
Oh, dig.
The button that stops the thing seems to have... You're not having much luck with this.
No, I'm not.
Even less luck than you had with the previous application.
No, I've lost you completely.
Um... It says it's still recording.
I know!
But I can't see why I turned the record thing off.
