Olle Johansson, associate professor, head of the Experimental Dermatology Unit, Department of Neuroscience, at the Karolinska Institute (famous for its Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine) in Stockholm, Sweden, is a world-leading authority in the field of EMF radiation and health effects.
He has published more than 500 original articles, reviews, book chapters and conference reports within the field of basic and applied neuroscience.
https://stop5g.cz/us/prof-olle-johansoon/
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Welcome to The Deling Pod with me, James Delingpole.
And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but I really am.
Before I introduce him, a quick word.
Hello, just a quick heads up about a couple of events I've got coming up which might be of interest to you.
One of them, obviously, you're going to be there, aren't you?
But there are still tickets left to my event, my live event with David Icke.
In Manchester on the 15th of November.
It's going to be great.
It's going to be really interesting.
There's another event the weekend before that on the 11th of November.
Saturday in Stroud in Gloucestershire.
It's called Net Zero the Final Frontier and there are various people talking.
I'm going to be giving a very punchy talk on something I don't normally go into these days because I've kind of had enough of it, but the whole climate change agenda and what Absolute bollocks it is.
So, if you want to hear me talking about that, it's probably worth coming down to Stroud.
I'll put the details below.
Thank you very much.
Enjoy the rest of the podcast.
And also, of course, do please support my sponsors.
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Thanks.
Welcome to the Dealing Pod, Ole Johansson.
Thank you.
I'm really I really am looking forward to this and Because funnily enough a few a few weeks ago.
I've got this telegram chat group and the issue of radiation came up.
Yeah, and Somebody sent me a link to some woman.
I don't know you may know her.
I can't remember her name talking about the health effects of radiation and pointing out that a lot of a lot of Medical problems which are attributed to other things are actually caused by radiation.
And I'm hoping you're going to be able to fill me in on this.
Tell me about yourself first of all.
Tell me about your background.
Well, I'm a retired professor in basic and applied neuroscience.
I've worked my whole life at the Karelian Institute here in Stockholm, but also at the Royal Institute of Technology.
And I have studied the brain, the spinal cord and the peripheral nerves and their content of various modulators and transmitter molecules.
And then in 1977, and I guess you were not even born then, you know.
I'm older than you think, Oliver.
Thank you.
Thank you.
No, then we came across today's topic about health effects as well as biological effects of artificial electromagnetic fields.
And you know, at that time, 1977, People didn't have any wireless gadgets really.
No cell phones, no laptops that were wireless, iPads and so on.
So it was really very, very early.
And the rest is history, as you say, you know.
So that's the reason why we talk today.
Yes, I would just imagine.
The world before all this, all the EMF coming from all these electronic devices, were people much healthier then?
Oh, that's a question.
And of course, you know, to begin with, before cell phones, we did have for decades, things that we call television, radio programs, radar, etc.
But of course, if you go backwards, to the end of the 19th century, then all these things started to be invented and used.
Like electricity here in Sweden, it's in the order of 140 years.
And from a biological medical point of view, that's nothing.
It's basically two generations, and that's it, of human beings, of other species, more or less generations.
So of course, the very recent provocation to our cells and molecules, and if you go back, like in Sweden, at the end of the 1900 century, There was an enormous poverty, a lot of illnesses and the life expectancy was quite short compared to today.
But on the other hand, maybe, and don't get me started on this actually, maybe their lives were more meaningful.
Because nowadays, as you know, many people very early in their life feel that what they work with and what they do for their leisure time, It kind of lacks meaning.
Very quickly they get bored.
of computer games, surfing the internet, shopping and so on.
And that's about it compared to farming, hunting, fishing, and things that more or less nearly the whole population did, apart from the industrial area where people more and more became employed in factories.
It's a very fair question, but maybe you need to separate Were they happier?
Maybe.
Were they healthier?
Probably not.
Okay, so we've just what we've done as as people's diets or at least access to important things like meat have probably improved and people have got generally wealthier.
We've introduced these other elements which counteract the advantages.
Today, I don't know the English term for that really.
In Swedish we would call it Väl-enlightenad sjukdomar, meaning illnesses that are dependent on the fact that you can eat an endless amount of sugar, fat and whatever, you know.
And therefore many people as you know today are obese, even fat really.
Yes.
And with a lot of diabetes and heart issues etc.
etc.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That yeah diseases of civilization.
I do something called the Bottega method developed by this this this Soviet era doctor called Bottega and he called he called these conditions diseases of civilization all these things that are kind of yeah have appeared since sort of the post-industrial in the post-industrial age.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, obviously, we're going to come on to 5G, which worries me greatly.
And I heard something very interesting the other day.
The word is that estate, I mean, the property market, as you know, is dead in the UK as it probably is in most of the world because people know what's coming.
But somebody told me that estate agents are having great difficulty selling houses which are near 5G masts.
So people must feel instinctively that there's something wrong there.
Well, personally I would doubt that, at least in Sweden, because you cannot tell what is a 3G, 4G or 5G based estate.
Because they use the same infrastructure, they look the same.
And therefore, I doubt that.
But you're right in the sense that if you, for instance, have overhead power lines, that will make people less interested in a property and a house.
And also, if there is a telecom mast somewhere, but people are, how should we say, not realize that they actually carry very Wrong base station with them in the form of the cell phone.
So they have cell phones, but they don't want to live close to an antenna.
And as you know, the closer you are to antennas, the less output power your cell phone will use.
So in a way, it would be ideal to live close to a base station.
But as you say, people have thoughts and frights about this, and they will probably choose another property rather than one that is decorated with all these base stations.
So let's go back to basics.
When we humans appeared, I mean, according to my version of events, we were created by God.
I don't believe in evolution.
We lived in a world without EMF, is that right?
There were no natural sources of EMF?
No, no, no.
We do have natural sources.
One is the geomagnetic field and that is very strong and it's static.
It does change direction but maybe over a hundred thousand years or so.
field and of course all species that cannot live in such an exposure they are no longer with us.
Right.
So we have got accustomed to this over hundreds of thousands of years during human development.
And then of course from outer space you have various forms of electromagnetic signals and I mean one of the most famous microwave backgrounds which is generated by the so-called Big Bang.
at But these fields are, in contrast to the geomagnetic fields, very, very, very weak.
Right.
Especially compared to artificial man-made fields, which are, well, if I could use a term from your vocabulary, they are biblical.
They are colossal.
They are astronomical.
But they are invisible.
So people don't think about that they are moving around in a soup thicker than any pea soup in the world, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
I remember, earlier this year, I went to Hong Kong and I was... I found my time there really, really uncomfortable.
I felt like I was being zapped by all manner of... I just felt it.
I just felt uncomfortable all the time.
And there were places where I went in the streets I don't know what the source of it was, but I felt really, really quite sick.
What would that have been, do you think?
Oh, that's very, very difficult to say.
And you and I, we are fair-skinned persons from a rather harsh climate.
The UK is famous for its clouds and rains, and right now, for instance, Right.
practically very dark and will be for months and months.
So going to Hong Kong is an enormous stress on our body.
Because you will be exposed to very damp heat and sun exposure.
And of course, a variety of other types of bacteria and viruses and other parasites, etc.
And another type of water, another type of food.
So there could be a lot of different reasons for it.
But of course, the exposures, we do have also physical exposures, like the electromagnetic field.
And in Hong Kong, There are very high exposure levels indeed, so maybe you should react to that.
But as a scientist, I must then ask for what we would call controlled studies, which would rule out so-called confounders, other factors that could have affected your health.
But the interesting thing is that what you describe, that was really the start for my interest, because we had primarily women at the beginning, but then more and more women reporting exactly what you say during wintertime here in Sweden.
Well, you cannot say that they were in a different foreign environment.
They were on their own backyard and it was dark and there was no sun and so on, you know, and therefore their attention was drawn to, at that time, the newly introduced personal computers, which people loved.
They thought it was great and it eased their work a lot, especially for secretaries and so on, telephone operators, etc, etc.
But people started to tell us, the scientists and the medical doctors, that they didn't feel well when they sat in front of these newly introduced computer screens.
And that was, as I say, really the start for me.
Right, okay.
So when When in our civilization did it start going really wrong?
When was the first wave of stuff?
When did that start coming in?
Well, I would say that the first real reports, and now we talk about something that I coined as screen dermatitis, because people got skin rashes, skin irritation, And pricking pain, redness, sensation and so on.
And later on, it was called electrical allergy.
But nowadays, it's referred to as a functional impairment or disability with the name electrohypersensitivity.
Now we are in 1979.
But when you read a Scientific literature, for instance, about the very famous American-Serbian entrepreneur and inventor Nikola Tesla, maybe he was actually electro-hypersensitive.
We cannot know for sure, because we cannot meet and investigate him.
But from 1979, then the first cases were reported from the United States of America and from Norway, quickly followed in the following years from Sweden, soon from UK, etc.
Right.
I suppose what I was angling for was electricity.
When houses started being electrified, did that have any effect or not?
Oh, indeed.
I'm sorry, I misunderstood you.
Yes, indeed.
Already from the very first electrification, but also from the first radio transmitters.
And now we are again at the end of the 1900 century or the beginning of the 20th century.
People, you know, oddly described sensations, which they didn't really refer to the masks or exposures at first, but the attention was drawn to it.
Indeed, yes.
Right.
For instance in the 1950s and 60s it was very popular with amateur radio with very strong transmitters close to your body and head and again it was even said that there was a special radio, amateur radio illness.
People complained, for instance, about pounding headaches, etc.
And in control experiments, you can see that that kind of exposure can elicit headaches.
So what people felt also have a scientific background.
Right.
I mean, we are adaptable, aren't we?
But the question is, I suppose, can we adapt quickly enough?
Oh, that's an excellent question.
No, really.
The adaptation for human beings is good, but it's not that good.
We are no rubber bands that you can stretch forever.
And also the adaptation generally takes generations.
And as you know, our generations cycle very slowly.
So maybe over hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years.
You can see that type of adaptation and maybe therefore we could be extremely thankful and happy for the persons with the disability we call electrohypersensitivity because they act as some kind of a warning signal like the classical yellow canary bird in the coal mine.
And they know something is not really right.
I have even said in several letters and articles that maybe the hypersensitive people are the new normal persons, because they react with correct avoidance behavior to a very toxic and densely done environment with a lot of exposure.
And maybe the rest of us like myself, I don't react to anything.
Maybe I am electro hypo sensitive.
And you know, through history, especially if you go tens of thousands of years back to the Stone Age, etc., people that were hypersensitive to other animals, to changes in environments, they are not with us any longer.
They died.
They couldn't adapt quick enough, you know.
So maybe the real winners at the bitter end will be the electro-hypersensitive people, as well as very poor people around the world who cannot afford to build wireless infrastructure, for instance.
They cannot buy any cell phones, etc.
And therefore, maybe they're not that exposed to these rays as we are.
I can just imagine that there are going to be some people watching or listening to this podcast and they're going, yeah, but look, what can we do?
We've got, we're surrounded, I like my cell phone, I like my computer and look, if it were really a problem, why aren't I dead?
Why aren't we all dead?
They just go, look, I look around, I mean, people have got health problems, but kind of, so what?
We can manage it.
What would you say to that?
Well, I would say that I do respect their choices.
They are personal and within the realm of our economy and modern lifestyle.
I do understand that.
But at the same time, maybe human beings are not Primarily, right now, because the most scary studies, you can call it like that, are studies made on, for instance, bacteria, on plants, on different types, including also, of course, they are human indeed, sperm cells and egg cells and fertility.
And then when you go out into the reality, There is a dramatic reduction of male sperm quality, count, motility, etc.
There is a dramatic reduction of so-called pollinated honey bees, and they don't like this kind of radiation, I can tell you.
And we do see a tremendous increase in antibiotic resistance based on bacteria.
And when you feed bacteria with, for instance, mobile telephone or Wi-Fi router radiation, then they use it and they change to antibiotic resistant.
And when the pandemic was in full swing, the COVID-19 pandemic, a representative of the World Health Organization was asked if COVID is the worst threat to mankind ever.
And then he kind of smiled or laughed even and said, no, no, no.
We can handle that, you know, but the reporter was very smart and said, well, but tell me what is the worst threat to mankind right now?
And then he very solemnly said, well, that's antibiotic resistance in healthcare.
And you know, for me as a scientist, I kind of froze because I realized, yeah, that's what happened.
When you expose bacteria, ordinary sort of household bacteria, you and I have in us and on us right now for these artificial fields.
So that's what I would tell the person saying that, hey, why are we not dead yet?
Maybe we are soon because, for instance, without pollinators, well, then we will have very little or if any fruit, vegetables, nuts, that kind of thing.
And without sperm cells that work, well then you and I are not dead, but we cannot in the future produce an embryo.
Right.
So let's go through these a bit more, because I mean, I always thought that declining sperm counts were more to do with things like estrogen in the water supply.
Yeah.
I agree.
I mean, there are a lot of confounders, other factors that might be the cause.
But, you know, when you really press experts and say, well, tell me now, tell me what is the cause, then they have to say, well, we don't know.
We have candidates, quite a number of different candidates for each one of the problems you mentioned just now, but we actually don't know.
And then what I say is that when you go to scientific review-based literature, you will find quite a number of papers telling you that sperm cells should not buy an owner's cell phone.
Pollinators like honeybees should not buy and own a cell phone.
Immune competent cells in our body as well as in other species should not buy and own a cell phone.
And DNA molecules in our cells and in other cells should not buy and own a cell phone.
There's a factor, a common factor in all those points you made, and it seems to be cell phone.
Well, it doesn't necessarily have to be a cell phone, I just mentioned that.
It could be any form of wireless gadget, and maybe even also the electromagnetic fields coming from other installations we normally would call wired, because wired installations have to be shielded as well, if you really should get away from electromagnetic fields, and most often they are.
Right, okay.
Going back, let's do the sperm count first.
We know that sperm counts are falling.
And what does EMF do to sperm?
Well, when scientists, like in the United States, have done test tube experiments and exposed semen samples from men, then, of course, they have seen that there is a strong reduction in mobility, in count, and also their morphology is altered in such a way so you get less functional sperm cells.
Quite alarming I would say and therefore it's not really an official recommendation but if you ask around like at health authorities and so on they will say between the lines that for a man he should not carry his cell phone in his trouser pocket or close to genitals and the same for a woman to try to keep it away.
The only problem is that if you should have a guaranteed exposure level that goes below what scientists have used for different experiments.
Then you need to first live in a completely radiation-free environment, meaning nothing.
And then your cell phone has to be in the order of 5 to 10 kilometers away from your body.
5 to 10 kilometers away?
Then you get below the exposure levels used by scientists in laboratories to provoke, change, damage, harm cells, molecules, organisms and so on, you know.
Right.
So that's clearly not possible.
So, I mean... Well, it is!
Wait, wait, wait!
It's indeed possible in the sense that if authorities would put you before greed, then they'd turn it off.
Oh, listen, I totally agree with you there.
But I mean, in the world we actually inhabit, rather than the ideal one, to live 15 miles from a cell phone is not easy.
It's not easy because I also said you have to live in a radiation-free environment.
You won't find that.
There is no such point.
Well, maybe at the South Pole somewhere, but I doubt it.
I was thinking, you know, I went to Svalbard once, and even in Svalbard you've got... Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I went to the radio station in Svalbard.
No, no, you have electromagnetic fields everywhere, of course.
So that would be very, very difficult.
And for instance, here in Sweden, if you really would like to find a low radiation zone or area, There are quite a number of them, you know.
But then you would live far, far out in the Swedish forests without any infrastructure.
Not the food or petrol station.
Nothing, you know.
No healthcare, no hospitals, no doctors, nothing.
No schools.
So it's impractical.
Very, very impractical.
Yeah.
Although, of course, you wouldn't need the hospitals because you'd be so healthy.
You know, could I just quickly tell you, you are so smart.
I like that, you know, because many years ago, we asked for permission to take a small Swedish town called Ljungby and remove all the exposure sources like radio, television, cell phones, wireless, utilized laptops, etc.
Everything, just everything.
And to see If the healthy population in such a small town over time would become healthier and healthier.
Yeah.
But we were not allowed to do it because the responsible authority said, and I quote, it was not ethical to do this to the population.
What?
I wanted to make their lives better and longer.
And sadly, that was not ethical.
I would love to see that experiment carried out and I would love to see the results.
a very relevant exposure test, you know.
So that I would like to do to remove everything.
I would love to see that experiment carried out, and I would love to see the results.
And it's very interesting what you say, that there is always an official given reason for doing something, and they quoted this notion that it's unethical, that it's trying to take the moral high ground.
Yeah, I know and I'm pretty sure that you know as well that the powers that be have zero interest in protecting us from this stuff because actually this is part of their Part of their plan.
They want to make us weaker.
Either that or maybe they don't even have a plan.
They're just plain daft, you know, and many times I am surprised.
I could tell you just two quick stories.
The first time we were going to place normal healthy volunteers, actually medical and dental students, In front of computer screens and ordinary household television screens.
In Sweden, you had to apply for an ethical permit.
So we did.
And it came back and it was rejected.
We were not allowed to do this experiment.
We were not going to do anything to them.
They should just sit there at the viewing distance of 40 centimeters.
And for a workday, that was it.
Nothing.
We couldn't even touch them.
And then I remember I contacted the person in charge of the Committee of Ethics.
And I said, sorry to disturb you, but you have to explain something.
We are not allowed to put students in front of computer screens for a workday of at most eight hours.
We are not going to touch them or anything.
But, you know, the whole world does this every day.
Grown-ups, kids, elderly, children, anyone.
Students, of course.
And then he said the following, in Swedish, but in English it would read, Oh, oh, fuck.
And then we got the permit.
And, you know, it sounds like a fun story.
He made a mistake and so on.
But you know, there are 20 people judging every application.
Could 20 people be just as stupid?
I doubt that.
But nevertheless, we got the permit, we could do it.
Then a few years later on, we should do a similar study, but then technique has evolved and then cell phones were on the market.
So we asked if we could put people half a meter away from cell phones.
Again, we should not touch the person, nothing.
They should just be 50 centimeters And then the guy that was at another university, he said to me when I sent the application that, Hey, Olle, you don't need to have any ethical permit for this because you know, people, they buy cell phones everywhere.
So you just go ahead.
And then I remember that Jim is, could you still find an ethical permit?
The place of 50 centimeters from cell phones in standby mode, they are waiting for a call.
And he said immediately, I know what you're looking for.
And I will do it for you.
So I am probably the only person on this planet that has an ethical permit to move people even closer to cell phones.
And have you done this experiment?
Yes, we did.
And what are the results?
Oh, that was super interesting.
This is 1994, so it's quite a number of years ago.
And we did this in Linköping, which is about two and a half hours by train from Stockholm.
We were out in the countryside.
The closest electricity installation of any form was more than two kilometers away.
And we used a small hut.
And in there, we have 12 electro-hypersensitive persons.
And the first, and you know, when you do this kind of provocation test, Or exposure tests.
You always follow like a staircase steps.
And the first step is that they should sit in this part, which was completely devoid of any electricity.
And, and just ends the environment.
And since I also was a bit stupid, I made a huge mistake.
Because of the twelve, five of them claimed that they didn't feel at ease.
There was something irritating them in this empty hut made of wood.
Period.
And I said that stupidly enough that sorry for this experiment.
We need people that do not react to the room.
You should react to the cell phone.
I sent them away.
We had seven left and the next step was that they would exercise their sensitivity by using any gadget they wanted in an open format.
They would see it on the table and then they should just learn how does my body react to this exposure.
Maybe some tingling sensation, headache, heat sensation, drinking pain, anything.
So they were allowed to do this for as many times and for as long times as possible, or as they wanted.
And the final step would be to double blind the same, and also doubling the exposure time.
If they said, I could react after five minutes, Okay, then we use 10 minutes.
No, I need 15 minutes.
Okay, then we double to 30 minutes.
And then we had Do you say notary, I think in English, a person from the municipality, which was completely independent from us, and he would roll a pair of dice and decide whether the black box contained a standby old cell phone or a dummy.
was just done anymore.
And then he came to the room with this black box or bag and put it in front of me sitting together with the electro-harmic density person and he or she would both of us be 50 centimeters away from the black box.
And they should just say, "Yeah, now I'm exposed," or "No, I'm not." And they should also report their prolonged sensation over the following 24 hours.
Okay.
What then happened was that of the seven, four didn't differ from pure chance.
They just didn't know.
And they thought they were sensitive enough, but they couldn't fix it.
Two ladies said regardless if the bag was empty or not, that they were exposed to a high frequency source.
And that started me to think, because that was exactly what the five-person group I had rejected.
So I started to think, but before we talk about that, the final single lady left, and that was the owner of this hut, and she lived there.
And she was 100% right.
Both in the cute sensation within 30 minutes, but also over the following 24 hours where they were allowed to change their mind if they wanted to.
But she was spot on every time.
And if I remember correctly, we did it like 10 times in a row with one week in between.
So yeah, she was really sensitive, you can say.
Going back to the 5 plus 2, I thought, hmm, strange.
There couldn't be any exposure in here.
But I better ask a specialist in high frequency measurements to come there with his antennas or telescopes on.
And he immediately said, well, you see in this art, you have a background which is in the order of A quarter of what the cell phone would give in standby mode of the high frequency source.
And from my oscilloscope readings, there's only one thing in the world that could create this background.
And that's a radio beacon for high speed aircraft, military aircraft.
And that will guide them so they would crash and so on.
And it's always there.
And the thing is, I think it was like 30 kilometers away.
It's the best center for Saab produced aircrafts for the military.
And you know, I remember I was shocked realizing that maybe the 5 plus 2, they were just as sensitive or actually more sensitive than the woman.
And so having rejected them, that was stupid.
I admit that now, but I didn't know better.
And the two ladies, they kind of put me on the trail.
And finally, this was a pilot experiment, just a test run, you know, and shortly after we ran out of money and we were allowed to continue the studies.
But someone must have informed the world because one week after I had written a compilation in Swedish and put it away on a shelf.
Then BBC called and said, hey, we have heard you have some interesting results in Stockholm.
We want to come and interview you.
And since then, and this is in 1995, the phone never stopped ringing.
Which is not good for you if it's a cell phone.
Well, I have a state-of-the-art phone with a shielded cable, so no problem.
Ah, well, so I've got to ask you, and we must go back, apart from sperm cancer, I want to talk to you about all the other ill effects that EMF can cause, but is there anything normal people can do?
Oh yeah.
Tell me what we can do.
Yeah, I mean, to begin with persons with electrohypersensitivity, they are Functionally disabled or impaired, and therefore they have the right to accessibility measures from their municipalities.
And that's just over the world, you know, and that is regulated by the United Nations, who has a special Human Rights Act for people with functional impairments.
And for them, it's distance to the source and or shielding.
And you need often experts to help you.
And it's not always cheap and easy, but quite often it's not that complicated.
And for healthy people, just being very concerned.
I mean, the most common question I would have is from a parent asking me, you know, my daughter or son, they have a cell phone.
Is it really safe for them?
And I have to, of course, be honest and say no.
And for such people, they have to start asking themselves, do we have to expose ourselves always?
Or could my daughter or son, for instance, read a book outside playing, ordinary kids did before, etc.
And there are a lot of products that you can use for shielding.
And so also, a healthy person could shield off
like their wi-fi router or their cell phone or whatever so there are quite a number of products and we shouldn't take too much time on that but it's easy to google but remember that stickers and pendulums and quadrats triangles and pyramids and so on no they don't work you have to follow schoolbook physics and then it's only about shielding and or distance
Okay, but, so, for example, just take my house.
We've all got cell phones, which we sit on far too often.
You've made me think, I often keep my cell phone in my trouser pocket, so that's, well, I've done my breeding, so I suppose that's alright.
We've got a television.
We've all got personal computers.
We've got Wi-Fi.
What should we be looking at to reduce our exposure?
What should we be tackling first?
Well, I don't know exactly how your home looks like.
Do you have children there?
Do we have what, sorry?
Children?
Yes, well, you know, grown-up ones.
As you said, you have done your bit.
But maybe they want to start a family in the future.
And so maybe you should concentrate on them.
And then of course, as I said, you know that you need to ask yourself, could we do all the things we do in another way, using shielded computers, wired, instead of wireless equipment?
And there are a lot of products that you can install to get away from the radiation, but that's the radiation you generate yourself.
You mentioned, for instance, television and the base station or transmitter for that is far away and it's owned by the telecom company or the operator.
For television in the UK, you are not allowed to do anything to it.
But you can then take it off, of course, your house.
And there are cloths, there are paints, there are metal mesh nets, etc.
So there are quite a number of things to do.
I suppose, to ask it in another way, what are the worst sources of the most dangerous EMF?
It's difficult to really say, but of course, the closer to your body you have things, the higher the exposure levels, so that would be a handheld unit, like a wireless indoor phone, cell phone, laptop have in your lap, for instance, and so forth.
Things that are more distant to you, they are not safe in that way, but the exposure levels would be less.
Yeah.
Right, okay.
So this laptop that I'm now recording this podcast on is giving out these nasty rays.
Yeah, and not only the rays, you know, you would also have our frequent magnetic fields.
And for instance, when I give lectures, I point to that an ordinary cell phone, if you recalculate the exposure you have in the 50 or 60 hertz range from power frequency, that equals more or less to holding several electrical train engines.
And I mean full size engines.
Really?
Yeah.
I mean, so you have different types of exposures.
And when people hear this, they are, of course, surprised, shocked.
And yeah, they start... Am I right in thinking that those airpods, they're particularly bad?
Well, I wouldn't say particularly bad.
They are as bad as anything else that you have close to you.
You stick them in your ears, you have your cell phone in your hand, etc., the laptop, computer in your lap, and so forth.
And so that's yet another crucial source.
And it seems as if the brain maybe can sustain Yes.
Yes, exactly.
I'm very old school.
what's better.
And of course, if I could be a little bit dramatic, if that means we get dumb people in the population, that we could live with.
But if we get infertile men, no, then we don't have a population to dumb them.
Yes.
Yes, exactly.
I'm very old school.
I've got these old-fashioned...
These presumably aren't as bad.
Well, they are.
How are they?
Yeah, I mean, they are.
Some things are better than the others.
They are equal in scale.
Am I right in thinking that there has been an increase in the incidence of brain tumors?
No, you are not right.
And in all over the world, the incidence is stable.
Or like in Sweden, which is the most exposed in the world, telecom products, it's slightly decreased.
So if you would ask me to make like a list, I would probably put cancer at the very bottom.
The question is even if it should be at all.
But in media, you are taught that if you touch a cell phone, you will immediately get a brain tumor.
But that's not true.
Well, I'm glad we've cleared that one up.
So there is some good news to this podcast.
Infertile, you will have no fruit, vegetables and nuts and so on.
Or bees.
And with the decrease, for instance, of pollinators, I often now get calls from people, the last was from Canada, a man who called me and said, you know, I have to ask you, since you're an expert on animals and so on, you know, we don't have any birds any longer.
Wow, I said.
Yeah, we had so many birds in our garden and they're gone.
Could you please send me a list of the birds you had in your garden?
And he did.
And they were all insect eaters.
And without the insects, of course, there is nothing to eat.
So no birds.
That is so sad.
I have noticed, I live in the country, and I have noticed the decline in birds, in songbirds.
The top predators proliferated, the red kites.
And ocean-based birds, like seagulls, they are increasing in number because they don't eat insects.
And gulls are a pain in the arse.
They really are.
Master flyers.
Sorry, I've just got to mention this.
There was a story in the papers about three... I don't read the newspapers anymore, but there was a story that I couldn't help noticing about a man who was eating some fish and chips in the garden, sitting naked sunbathing.
And a seagull swooped down and gave him life-changing injuries, as they were described, while he was... I don't know if this is true, but... They are very strong and very quick, so it sounds plausible indeed.
Yeah, I don't like gulls.
Sweden is, since we have a harsh climate, you can never sit naked in the garden, you know.
But Olle, I know what you do, you drill holes in the ice and then you dip and then you go for a sauna?
Yeah, exactly.
So that's when the gold would get you?
Yeah, you dip yourself and then you go for the sauna, as you say, you know.
And when you have done that, you put on all the clothes, drill another hole and start fishing.
And you have Greenland sharks, don't you?
Not here.
There are occasional sharks, but very, very rarely.
But with changes in the global warming and so on, also such animals do visit us, not often, but now and then, yes.
Right.
Okay, so going back to other things that EMF Courses so doesn't cause brain tumors or cancers generally it does cause low sperm count What about okay?
So here's the thing I've had people posit to me you correct me if I'm wrong that the real reason for this I don't believe in COVID.
I think it was just rebranded flu, basically, because you look at how flu dropped off the radar completely in that year, whereas COVID suddenly increased.
But whatever it was, whatever it was people getting sick of, some some people have suggested that it really was.
This was the result of of EMF, of 4G and 5G.
Well, as a scientist, I cannot echo that hypothesis.
We do not see anything like it.
And the kind of observations are far too coarse.
To really give any hints to causes behind COVID or flu, except for, of course, coronavirus and so on.
And again, you would need controlled experiments where all boundaries have been checked very carefully, and the exposure situations must be standardized.
And I don't see that in any of these reports or observations.
Okay.
May I just quickly go back to the cancer issue?
Because don't get me wrong, the World Health Organization has classified all types of radio frequency fields, including all the cell phones, Wi-Fi routers, etc.
as possibly carcinogenic.
And they did it in 2011.
But since then, as I say, You don't see any incidents changes that you would expect, but it's still cancer classified.
And if I may give you a very short story, and I think this goes back like two and a half years, I was traveling in Stockholm in one of the commuter trains.
And since no one knows who I am, I always take the opportunity.
To inform and educate.
And there was a very posh lady sitting next to me and she was fiddling around, you know, with her smartphone.
And I leapt over and said, sorry, do you know that the World Health Organization in Geneva, Switzerland, has cancer classified the radiation that your cell phone is using?
And she went ballistic and called me a lot of bad names and told me to go to a very hot place and I didn't know anything and I should mind my own business.
And I said, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait.
You have one of these smartphones and you have Google.
Couldn't you please Google WHO cell phone radiation and brain tumors?
And she did.
And she went silent for like a minute or two.
And she was fiddling with her phone, you know.
And suddenly she slowly looked up at me and said, I'm sorry, sir.
It's all here.
You're completely right.
But now I get pissed again, not at you, but at the Swedish authorities, government and parliament.
You see, I'm not only a grandmother and mother, but I have grandkids and therefore a week ago I gave my granddaughter a new cell phone and now I regret it.
And what happened later on?
I don't know, because I had to leave the commuter train.
But you see, information, education, you asked before, what can people do?
Start discussion groups also, don't only take care of your health, but talk to people.
And it could be very informal.
Just lean over at your workplace or school, place of leisure, or when you're walking or shopping, just ask them, do you know?
Well, okay, now I'm confused.
Earlier on you told me that there's no connection with brain tumors.
Now you're saying the World Health Organization says there is a connection.
Well, it's possibly carcinogenic.
It's like, you know, walking a street and it's possibly taking me to Stockholm.
And they are re-investigating it as we speak now.
And the rumor says that they probably will reduce classification and say that there isn't an association.
And when you look, as I said, on the incidence data now, 2023, this was 2011, you do not see any increase that are statistically significant.
Right okay so I'm going with not at the moment.
Yeah and so do you because I mean I don't know for the UK but here in Sweden it's quite often you find people that are worried they are concerned and they seem to live their life being slightly afraid of a lot of things And that could be true if it's meaningful, but most of the things are not of any importance for them.
And I try to tell them, please, calm down, live your life, be happy, do something fun with your kids and your husband or wife, etc.
And don't worry so much because We are a mental fire brigade and we try our best to investigate these question marks, including, as you said, is there an association between, for instance, wireless telecommunication like 5G and viruses?
Corona virus and COVID-19.
It is up on the table and being investigated.
And so far, no, it doesn't seem to be any association.
But as I said in the beginning, you know, the levels of exposure can only be understood in astronomical or biblical colossal terms.
And we are feeding life on the planet energy.
at levels unheard of before and maybe you and I, we don't, well maybe we sweat a little bit, that's it, but maybe viruses thrive, maybe bacteria thrive, maybe bacteriophages thrive from this and so far we don't.
And I like what you said also because You said that maybe it was a constructed situation and it was just an ordinary flu.
And you know, I'm a very old man.
So I lived through, for instance, the Asian flu in 1957 and the Hong Kong flu in 1968.
Of course, we were ill for a few weeks and that was it.
My mother and father was ill and that was it.
So therefore, when COVID-19 struck, I have and don't tell anyone, but I didn't change anything in my life.
I just lived exactly as before.
I went to coffee shops, restaurants, and I traveled inside Sweden, out over the world.
And there was no problem.
Actually, it was very good, because the coffee shops and restaurants were practically empty.
the trucks were empty, the aircrafts were empty, and the service level was superior.
You know, sitting in an airliner on your way to Africa with 10, 12 air hostess and five passengers, that's like...
Well, yeah, but did they make you wear a stupid mask or not?
No, well, no.
Well, not in Sweden.
That was voluntary.
I don't think we did.
No, maybe.
I had this really weird experience where, as you know, in the UK, we had more restrictions.
I mean, well, Sweden was the exception, wasn't it?
It was the outlier, which was amazing.
Well done, Sweden.
But it was Anders Tegnell.
He's your man.
Yeah, he is.
But we are also, and that actually goes back to 1643, we are allowed to think for ourselves.
The authorities here are separated legally from the government and parliament and cannot be forced to do anything stupid like mandatory masks and so on.
And therefore, we were allowed to do as we wanted.
Well, yes, I'm very happy for you.
Interrupt you but I mean the draconian measures we saw like in Canada United States Australia and the ceiling to some extent in the UK and so on We thought it was kind of a joke.
Could it really be?
But it was I mean they were rampage really we couldn't believe those of us who were awake Couldn't believe it either.
We couldn't believe what was happening to these countries that had supposedly gone through the Enlightenment and so on and supposed to be above all that nonsense.
Yeah.
I was just shocked and I thought, Jesus, they must have something else going on there.
There is some other underlying plan or whatever.
I never found out what it was or was it just unfounded fright?
Maybe the Scandinavian, especially Swedish Vikings through their point of view.
I could give you a whole other podcast where I could explain to you what is going on, but we haven't got time for that one here.
I was just gonna tell you.
I'd gone to the plane for the first time, whenever it was we were allowed to fly again, and I flew with my wife to Costa Rica on British Airways.
And there were still mask mandates being enforced.
And I said to my wife on the way to the airport, I'm bloody well not going to wear a mask for a 12 hour flight, no bloody way.
And she said, well, well, If you don't wear a mask, I'll have to.
And I said, no, you won't.
No, you won't.
Just do as I do.
But she says, it's going to look weird if we're both not wearing masks.
I said, no, it won't.
So we go to the final boarding and the woman at the counter says, and please could you put your mask on now?
And I say, I'm mask exempt.
And she says, oh, that's fine then.
On you go.
And so my wife did the same.
So we sat on this flight for 12 hours, surrounded by people wearing masks.
Because they hadn't said a simple phrase, I'm mask exempt.
That's all they had to do.
All they had to do.
Yeah, that's super smart.
And you know, I have another story similar in a sense.
When I was going for the first time to West Africa, and that was about pollinators and the effect on pollinators from radiation.
And then you're supposed to take a lot of vaccines because they have some illnesses, you know.
Yeah, Ebola.
One of these vaccinations, some of them are mandatory.
You have to have them.
And it was at the time when the COVID vaccines were introduced, and the doctor, she gave me a long list of all the different vaccines I had to take.
And then I said, sorry, but shouldn't I take these COVID vaccines as well?
And believe it or not, but she laughed and said, Olle, The countries you are going to visit, they have real diseases.
No, you don't even have to think about it.
But, just to make sure, check so that not a country would have it as a mandatory entry demand into the country.
None of the countries had.
That was it.
I'm glad you dodged that bullet.
Came out on the street, I thought, Wow, that's interesting.
In other countries like Australia and Canada and so on, they are just crazy.
And here the doctor laughed.
Who is right?
And I felt that she was right.
So, going back to the things that EMF does.
So, sperm count, definitely a problem.
And it's very interesting what you say about how bacteria...
seem to thrive on yeah they feed off the energy provided by the and mutate even or what will they just just get stronger?
They seem to get stronger as well as mutate but the data is not really clear I would say more research needs to be done and as you can understand these areas are not easily financed There is general reluctance to give research money.
For me being retired is even harder.
I sent you this fundraiser call.
If people that are viewing this and listening to this, if they want to help us, please, a single pound or dollar or whatever will make a difference.
I'll put a link at the bottom.
Thank you very much.
So tell us where the money would go.
Yeah, it goes to a research account.
And in the fundraiser call, we have given some of the major products, including what we talked about right now, and a few more, including electron hypersensitivity, frequency or energy medicine, effect on pollinators and other insects, effects on sperm cells and fertility, etc.
There are quite a number.
And there are two options.
You can either use a PayPal button, No gift is small.
transfer if that's easier for you.
And I say again, no gift is small.
Just try and help us because we really need it.
And we are doing our very best.
Just now I'm sending out, and I could send it later on to you as well, a declaration about children.
And November 20, when people have signed it, we will send it to the United Nations to protect children from these gadgets, not only the radiation, but also the behavioral aspects.
Okay, so I want to pin you down a bit more.
etc so all of that you know and so please if you want to sign it then do and after our call here i will definitely send it to you okay so i want to pin you down a bit more okay so we know that emf has an effect on bacteria um viruses i mean the the there's debate among my viewers and and listeners on whether even viruses actually exist you know
but but but supposing for a moment that they do uh is it not It's entirely plausible that EMF could be having an effect on these things and making them stronger.
Absolutely.
It's more than plausible because there are already publications showing that viruses can also be impacted by man-made electromagnetic fields.
Yes.
So, because that brings me to another theory I heard posited, that the reason that Italy, Northern Italy, suffered, insofar as we can believe what we read in the newspapers, which is probably not very much, but there seemed to be a kind of an intense outbreak in Northern Italy, which has been, I've heard, may have been the result of EMF there.
Is that plausible?
Yes, it is.
And again, it points more to 5G, the fifth generation mobile telephony.
And don't forget that one of the development centers in the world for 5G was and still is Wuhan in China, where the initial outbreak of COVID-19 was found.
More research under controlled circumstances and standardized circumstances, definitely need it.
But then again, we need economic resources, money to do it.
And it definitely is on our agenda, yes.
So how much worse is 5G than its predecessors?
You know, 5G is so completely different when we talk about the technical character regarding polarization, frequencies, modulation.
and the way it's transmitted through air And it's really not very well understood yet.
And I'm just about now to finalize, and I shouldn't take any credit really, because it's a lady who dates Christine Zipps at Zipps Media, and we are finally Documentary about 5G.
And I will not go into it yet, but it will be sent out to everyone on my mailing list.
And one thing that strikes me very much is that maybe the health concerns about 5G They are very important, no question about it, but it seems to be a tool to control us to have surveillance and that kind of things in a way that is not democratic and it's not appetizing at all.
And I didn't really think about it so much before this documentary, and we worked on it for one and a half years.
But it strikes me more and more that this is a power tool to control us.
Yes.
I've never encountered any normal person in any conversation ever who said to me, you know, I'm really glad we've got 5G.
It's going to transform my life.
We get sold these narratives.
by the powers that be that in a more connected world, whatever phrase they want to use, it's all part of progress.
Yes.
It's inevitable.
Things can't work without this next generation stuff.
But I've never heard the case made, ever, successfully.
No, I could just feel it.
Many years ago, when the first and second generation was rolled out here in Europe, And then the UK was still a member of the European Union.
I remember we were at the meeting at the European Union, we talked for a whole day about the impact of On your personal economy, it's expensive to use cell phone on the landscape on the cities, blah, blah, blah, and medical and so on, you know, and then we went through and we were about to leave the room when I suddenly said, Wait, I have a final question.
And I turned to the parliamentarian from the European Union in Brussels and said, You have to tell me, what was the greed?
Sorry, the need behind the rollout when it was decided to blanket Europe with wireless telecommunication.
And then he said, you know, that, well, it's very easy to answer that there was never any need except for greed.
This is just a commercial project.
And people, ordinary citizens have never asked for it.
And we were happy with the answer and it wasn't surprising in a sense but still I remember I thought about it for many years afterwards coming back to that as you say there is an agenda and that spells either greed and or power often hand in hand.
Given that this is obviously Yeah.
a form of environmental pollution that is injurious to public health.
Yeah.
One might have hoped that there would be loads of professors like you around the world pointing this stuff out.
But I imagine you're quite a lone voice, aren't you?
Well, I'm not alone, but there are very few.
And as I say, we would need a few more, definitely.
And we are trying our best to reach.
I have, for instance, myself written to the World Health Organization, to the United Nations, to my own former Prime Minister, and so on.
They didn't even send an automatic reply.
I got nothing back.
And for me living in Sweden, which is supposed to be some kind of a democracy based on the election and blah, blah, blah, all of that.
It is surprising to realize that your own Prime Minister, he doesn't give a toss about you and the World Health Organization, the same and the United Nations, the same.
And I do hope they know what they're doing, because it would be It would be sad in the future if, for instance, children and teenagers would say, why didn't they listen to this Olle Johansson in Sweden?
He asked the relevant questions and had many of the answers actually already in his hand.
Why didn't they listen?
Have you seen the videos?
I remember these videos doing the rounds during the kind of Covid nonsense of 5G devices in housing estates in, I think, the north of England.
Okay.
And there was one with a tree.
Yeah.
And the leaves of the trees were destroyed.
I mean, the tree was dying on the side, it was exposed to the 5G.
Yeah.
Is that real?
Studies like that here in Sweden, because I find it very, very interesting, and there are publications.
The problem is though, you know, that And I don't recall the numbers really, but in Sweden there are like a hundred million or more trees, and there are a few that are damaged, and maybe it's another reason.
So we again would like to do controlled studies, and then we need the support and help of your listeners.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Presumably the problem is that the money is all on the side of the industry that wants to push this stuff.
Yeah.
No one's looking after the consumer.
No.
And therefore, you know, the funny thing with the letter to our Prime Minister was that it was not at all about any medical or biological questions.
It was only about Swedish
public economy and we pointed to that there were risks inherited into the telecom adventure and we wanted him to sort of look into it and maybe change a few of a few of the things they had and he just didn't give a toss at all and public economy in Sweden that's based on taxpayers money meaning it's my money also
They never remember that, governments, when they're spending your money.
They never remember whose money it is.
No.
And, you know, I'm still surprised.
I don't know the correct English word, but I would call it disrespectful to the constituents if you cannot even send an automatic computerized reply or nothing.
And we got eventually a reply from a lay person at some department, and since he didn't know anything, the answer was completely blah-ha-blah-ha, as Greta Thunberg says.
And with all of this, we actually wrote an article because we said maybe some historian in the future would like to read about what happened that year in Sweden.
And it's not unique.
I hear the same stories all over.
People are banging on the door to number 10 down in street, but no one opens.
That's absolutely true.
Your message must have made you unpopular with the industry.
Have you ever had any pressure put on you or any kind of A lot of pressure, but not so much from the industry, but more from other areas of society.
And also I found out in May this year that behind my back, because you know, I'm constantly, I think you say, pissed, angry.
And then I found out and I see that as very positive and worthy and namely behind my back, my peers, my scientific peers, they call me the Gordon Ramsey of science.
What, because he's angry all the time?
Yeah, I'm angry because I feel that the taxpayers have the right to know and you mentioned Anders Tegnell and COVID-19 before and even so here in Sweden I think they did a pretty decent job but there were a number of questions, simple, obvious, relevant questions being put to him and others They just went on the carpet.
Why?
Why are certain questions so dangerous?
Well, you realize that the cynics explanation for why, you know, we all look at Sweden and go, yeah, Anders Tegnell and they're the role model and stuff.
The real reason for this, According to some of my more conspiracy-minded friends, it's that Sweden is already so controlled.
You are pretty much cashless.
The kids volunteering to have microchips implanted in their, you know, they're volunteering to have the mark of the beast.
They don't need to be cursed into doing it, coerced into doing it.
So Sweden is already so gone that you were permitted the illusion of freedom during Covid.
Exactly, yeah.
What do you reckon to that?
I wouldn't be really, and by the way, there are no kids with microchips here.
There are a few adults.
Oh no, that's what I meant.
By kids, I meant sort of people in their early 20s, that kind of thing.
Well, maybe even older than that, but there are very few, and there's no real practical reason behind it.
But, well, I mean, you mentioned before, I heard questions being put, for instance, about the virus nature of coronavirus and measles virus.
And they just...
And you know, I was taught when I worked at the Carolina State University in Detroit, that there are no stupid questions, and only stupid answers.
And I, as a scientist, would produce them, and that you should always respect the politicians, the taxpayers, the consumers, call them whatever you want to, because they have the right to get an answer to their questions regardless of what they want.
And therefore, every time someone called me and asked, I tried.
And sometimes I had to be honest and say, I'm sorry, I don't know this, but I will look around and call you back, maybe tomorrow, and I will see if I can find an answer to your question.
And that gave the initiation you can take to some research projects because the population of the citizens of the country are not stupid, not at all.
They had a lot of very interesting suggestions and ideas and some of which we actually used.
But nowadays, The modern style is to sometimes turn away.
I don't understand that.
Yes, I think that our rulers are becoming much more flagrant in their contempt for us.
They don't even bother to pretend they're interested in what we say or think.
That also goes to that I guess if you go back to the 1930s and 40s and 50s and so on, that politicians sometimes would do bad things, but never in the open.
But nowadays, they are still right in front of you.
They don't bother to hide anything.
I mean, for me, being old, it's such a surprising society.
And when people call me and say, oh, you should be lucky.
You live in the best of the best democracies.
And I say, democracy what?
Yeah, yeah, right.
And we are far from it.
I do understand we're better off than some countries like North Korea and so on.
But hey, we're not a democracy any longer, you know.
And the question is, if we ever was.
That's the cleverer question.
Were we ever?
Were we ever?
Because I don't think... I was brought up to believe that To have been born English was to have won the lottery in life.
And I was proud of our empire and I was proud of all that, you know, we brought sort of justice and democracy and railways and all this stuff that we're told we should be proud of to the world.
And actually, I think, you go back to 1666, you go back even earlier, you find there are moments in British history where The talons closed around our throat and the idea that we are free has always been an illusion and the idea that we live in democracy, whatever that is, is also a lie.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's bad to realize that and also I often think about my own years in primary school and upwards, you were never taught useful things about reality.
Yeah, you were taught a lot of about mathematics and statistics cameras.
They're good.
Wow.
But the practical illusions, as you say, you were never taught about them.
And the sort of mechanism behind everything was never revealed to And I feel I've been kind of fooled and it's only when you grow older you start seeing it.
I'm definitely no conspiracy theorist, not at all, but I am surprised to realize that there is quite a number of things in our both countries that are not so nice looking.
You don't need to be a conspiracy theorist.
You just need to be a conspiracy realist.
You just need to understand that this is the nature of things.
I love that expression.
That's very good.
So just to sort of sum up your expertise, suppose I were your son or you had a father suppose I were your son or you had a father of your grand...
I'm not that much younger than you, but yeah, say I'm your son or I was the father of your granddaughter.
What would you be doing?
What would you be advising me to do to protect her from Oh, that's a real classical question.
I get it very often.
And I would answer something like this, that you and I being mature adults, we have to speak to this girl and tell her about facts.
But of course, in a democracy, whatever that means, her choice would still be her own as long as she would be older than a certain age.
Before that, maybe as a father, you would have to take the cell phone.
And the easiest way to do that is, of course, to not pay the, what do you say, the operator?
The bill, well, yeah.
Yeah, any longer.
So she would have a useless piece of plastic and metal, period.
And you would probably be hated for the rest of the work.
Although, unfortunately, I do have actual children.
And the idea of, if I went downstairs now and tried telling them.
Well, tell it, it's my fault.
It, they're glued to the, like, orchids are everywhere.
They're glued to their equipment.
I know.
No, it's just awful, you know, and there are zombies on it, and the addiction level.
There are even publications about this, and at least now in both Sweden and other countries, people are reacting to it.
Starting a discussion how often and how long should children be allowed to sit by a laptop or cell phone screen and so on.
And you know, China, they have a very strict regulation about this, at least in schools.
So there the kids are not allowed to use, they have to actually leave their cell phones by the door.
And of course China, and I read yesterday another article about this, and of course China has a very simple business model.
They just want to buy it all, including England and Sweden.
And then they need pupils and students that are very, very focused.
If that is democratic or not, we can discuss for a long time.
But the outcome is that they should take over.
They should always be on top of the rest of the world.
And so, yeah, they seemingly take more responsibility for the kids, although I think that's more about taking responsibility of the future Chinese ruling society of the world, you know.
Just one question before we go.
If I could somehow arrange it that I could turn off the Wi-Fi in my house at night... Yeah.
Would it make any difference to my health and what would I?
Well, you talked about before doing very smart experiments and stepwise, maybe they turn it off during night, turn it off during weekends, turning off for a week or a month or as we wanted to do in this small town in Sweden, we wanted to turn it off for a year or two.
Whether the health parameters would change and if it could be tied to the reduction in exposure and so far today we don't know but it is a recommendation always to try to minimize the exposure especially for children and teenagers and so yeah I would try that.
You are the classic scientist ultimately Oli, you know more research needed.
Can't be sure.
No, that's true.
And I know I'm boring, and that's because we two, you know, we are dull and boring.
But at the same time, I don't want to sort of shift the pressure point when it comes to facts.
What we talk about are based upon either speculation, some of them even being wild facts, some are hypotheses, some are theories.
Of course, facts and knowledge.
And there is a mix of it.
And sometimes when you listen to laypersons, they have a very hard time to discern between facts and speculation.
So, and that's my job.
I mean, every day I get questions very much the same as you have put to me, and I need to straighten them out and try to inform and educate, as I said before.
But there's always also a limit.
Sometimes I have to say, sorry, I don't know.
And that in itself could be more scary.
Where can people find you?
And if I would say, okay, this is the answer.
Yeah.
I think that the mental fire brigade with the scientists, that we know everything and we don't.
Yeah.
Where can people find you?
Have you got a website?
That would be the link that I provided you with.
And there they would find even a link to a CV, for instance.
And more information.
And, of course, if anyone would like to contact me, they could write to you and send the email.
Okay.
That would be it.
I'll do that, yes, because we've only scratched the surface of 5G, and I know, for example, you wrote to the UK Parliament, didn't you, expressing your concerns.
I found that on the internet very easily, because there's more technical detail than we had really space for.
We have written to the parliaments, governments, health authorities, radiation protection authorities, to laborers, lawyers, medical doctors, all over the world, including the United Nations, the World Health Organization, many of which have never replied.
Some have.
Unfortunately, I must say, and that includes the Swedish government and parliament, they don't know very much.
They just take a chance because there is so much money involved here.
So they are appetised by the money side, but they take a chance.
They hope that, for instance, pollinators, kids, sperm cells and so on should not be harmed or damaged.
But that's just a hope.
It's been an absolute joy speaking to you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
If you've enjoyed watching this podcast, I really appreciate your support.
You can support me.
You can get early access to my podcast if you sign up to
It would be an honour if you came here to Sweden to buy you much more than a coffee and also I would entertain you now in complete darkness because it is dark and cold and wet but it would be such fun.
Oh and I'd get to see the Northern Lights maybe!
Oh yes indeed, yes.
And if they are not around I could allow you to borrow my torch and we could play with that.
And we could go and shoot a moose, all sorts of larks.
If this recording is made public in some kind of a link or so on, I have a very big mailing list.
It's out to every corner of the world except one, and that corner we call the South Pole.
But apart from that, every corner.
The South Pole is a whole other podcast.
In fact, it's the biggest podcast of all Antarctica.
Good.
Thank you very much.
I've enjoyed that a lot.
You're a splendid fellow.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Dellingpole meets Ike.
In Manchester, November 15th.
You'll find the details below.
I'm really looking forward to seeing you all there.
