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June 6, 2023 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole
01:06:20
Ian Plimer
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Time Text
It is recording.
Oh.
Welcome... ...to the... I can't say... What?
Are you interrupting me?
You'd better start again.
Yes, start again.
Welcome to the DellingPod.
I can't say...
What?
Are you interrupting me?
You better start again.
Yes, start again.
Welcome to the DellingPod with me, James Dellingpole.
And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but I really am.
It's an old, old, very old actually, I mean like almost just like Methuselah, an old friend back after a long time.
Ian Plymer, welcome back to the Delingpod.
How have you been?
Well, I know you haven't been well.
Well, thank you for having me, James.
Well, you know, I haven't been 100%.
That's why I've been out of action for a while.
Yeah, exactly.
But are you, I mean seriously, are you recovered now?
Because I, you know, I wasn't sure that I was ever going to see you again.
Well, I'm breathing out carbon dioxide, my bum is pointing to the ground, and for the rest of my life I will still have a fairly dangerous cancer which is being managed.
Right.
So that's the good news.
The even better news is that I'm still getting hated by those on the left.
Yeah, yeah.
Although, you know what, Ian?
I've, since we last, since we last had a, did a podcast together, which must have been, must be about, it was in the days when I used to do them face to face.
And we met in a hotel near Marylebone.
And so that would have been what, five years ago, even?
Eight years ago?
Yeah, five or eight years ago.
Yeah.
But since then, I've, I've had a, had a sort of an awakening, you might you might put it.
I mean, you and I have been fighting the climate wars for a very long time.
And I don't think anymore.
Well, even though even when I wrote watermelons, I think I kind of argued this.
It's not really about the left and the right.
The It's about us versus them, about us versus the bastards.
And that includes right wing.
I mean, for example, notionally conservative governments are just as as as balls deep into the into the green agenda as as the left.
That's correct.
This is not about the environment.
It's not about climate.
It's not about being left or right.
It's about unelected people having absolute total control on every minor aspect of our lives, having total control in our wallet.
And we have had a revolution.
It's been starting since the late 60s, and now it's complete.
And we're actually on the losing side.
I couldn't agree with you more and it's kind of depressing.
When did we first meet?
It must have been about 20 years ago?
I think it was about 2009 when my book Heaven and Earth came out.
Yes.
And I met you in London and we did something there.
Yeah, okay.
And you wrote a special piece about them.
Yeah.
Lead article in the spec.
There were, and are, a handful of figures from various scientific fields, sort of solid scientific fields, like geology, which is your field, and physics, which is Well, quite a few of them.
I mean, I think, I think the late Fred Singer was a physicist.
Richard Lindzen and others, yes.
Richard Lindzen and others.
The scientists who've been calling out the climate change scam tend to come from serious scientific fields, don't they, which rely on hard data rather than on nebulous scientific endeavors like ecology or, I don't know, Environmental studies, environmental sciences.
Well, in my field, an employer will pay you and you will create ideas, which then you might go out and explore for metals.
And if you drill a couple of holes and fail, you're out of a job.
That's reality.
Whereas you're an ecologist.
If you fail, you may well get promoted.
So, we're at the sharp end of whether you've got a job or not.
And yet the same people who are creating this havoc in the world are going to be wanting us to find all that lithium and the graphite and the copper and the cobalt and the nickel that's needed for their electric vehicles.
So, we are living in a bizarre world at present.
Yeah.
Well, exactly.
In your scientific career, do you remember a point where this stuff started creeping in, or was it always there from the moment you started studying and, I mean, from your uni days?
For the last 250 years, geologists have been writing about climate.
It's in all the major textbooks, like Charles Lyell's book of 1833 and 1834.
So we've been struggling over what climate change means for hundreds of years.
And we see the evidence of climate change written in stone.
And it was about the 90s when these ideas of human-induced climate change started to creep in.
And we've seen thousands of millions of years of climate change in geology.
And when someone suddenly tries to change the game and say, oh, no, wait a minute, this is all due to humans.
You have to stand up and say, well, what's the evidence?
Now, I've been doing that for nearly 30 years and the evidence has never been supplied.
And there's one very simple question I keep asking.
Can you please show me half a dozen scientific papers That show that human emissions of carbon dioxide drive global warming.
Now, I've been asking for that for 35 years.
I've never ever got those papers.
Yes, I've got a lot of abuse.
Yes, I've had obfuscation.
But I've never had the scientific papers on which this whole hysteria is based.
So I don't see it as science, because in science, your ideas have to be in accord with other validated ideas.
And that is the coherence criteria in science.
So the tried and proven Scientific evidence that we have in geology is not in accord with new ideas coming up about human-induced climate change.
Well, then you have to ditch the ideas of human-induced climate change.
That hasn't happened.
So therefore, we're not dealing with science.
We never have been.
We've been dealing with a pressure group that is not concerned about science, not concerned about the environment, and not concerned about climate change.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I know that to be true, having sort of manned the barricades with you or stuck my head above the parapet of the trench, but there will be people People, even now, who will come to this conversation and they'll say, that's a very big claim, Ian Plymer.
You can't seriously be saying that there's no evidence for man-made climate change.
Come on!
I mean, there's a whole, you know, all these experts all around the world are telling us that climate change is a problem.
Surely, if there had been no evidence for what they're saying, they would have been exposed by now.
97% of scientists In the climate industry.
Agree with whomsoever funds them.
And this has got nothing to do with science.
It's to do with people, many of them unemployable, being in fields of science where if they didn't get research grants to frighten us witless, they wouldn't have a job.
This has got nothing to do with people who might go out and create something like a physicist or create a new process like a chemist or find a new mineral deposit like a geologist.
These are eminently unemployable people, mostly mathematicians.
Who have found a home in climate institutes.
I'm happy to look at the evidence, but please just give it to me.
I have evidence where you can say that there have been local climate changes due to human activities.
And I guess the one that comes to mind is land clearing in the foothills of Mount Kilimanjaro.
That has decreased precipitation.
That is a local climate change, but it's not a global climate change.
So I'm still waiting for the evidence.
I'm very happy that climate always changes.
I suspect that the human influence is very minor, if it's detectable at all.
But I would just like to see half a dozen papers that, I don't want to use the word prove, but demonstrate to me that human emissions of carbon dioxide drive global warming.
Because if you can, then you have to show that the other emissions, and that's about 97% of the total, and their emissions out of the oceans, out of volcanoes and out of breathing, You have to show that those emissions don't drive global warming.
So you've got yourself a double problem.
Yeah, but I can just... I have a friend called Toby, who is a great believer that never attribute to malice or corruption what you can attribute to cock-up.
So he imagines that any of these things that happen Adjust accidents and that people are basically decent and the system is is is Fundamentally, okay, just a few few glitches with it.
And I think that that if you were Toby Actually, that's slightly unfair in this case because Toby actually has taken up the mantle He's he's he's taken up the gauntlet of the of the the climate challenge and he's quite opposed to it But I think there is a mindset which says look, how would it be possible to?
These guys are scientists.
They go into science to study science, and presumably to make the world a better place using science, doing sciencey things.
And there are universities all over the world, and knowledge and discovery is at a premium in science.
And how would it be possible, if what you say is true, if there are no papers confirming that man-made Global warming is changing the planet.
How would it be possible for them to maintain this lie when there will be all these kind of rival institutions determined to, you know, to get a name for themselves by exposing this lie?
Well, if you go and look at the original publications and go right back to the source papers, they're very, very different from what activists, publicists or mainstream media say.
For example, We hear in the mainstream media that we have these climate catastrophes and that we've got an increase in hurricane activity, we've got an increase in storm damage, etc, etc, etc.
Now go to Chapter 11 of AR6 of the IPCC report, and they don't say that at all.
What they say is that there is no change.
And so what happened is between a lot of science where people are fairly measured and fairly cautious, and that's the science I read, That then becomes politicised by activists.
And so when you say, look at the IPCC, what is written in the scientific part of the IPCC reports, and that was only set up to prove that human emissions drive global warming, is very different from the summary.
So the whole business has been taken over by activists.
And scientific papers will often study a phenomenon where they see a change, and they hint that it could be climate change.
They don't say that it's human induced climate change.
They just hint that it's climate change.
So that's the reserve we get of scientists.
And I think many scientists went into science as I did, because I was fascinated with the natural world.
And I wanted to know more.
I didn't go in there to make money.
I didn't go in there to have hard paying jobs.
I didn't go in there to Get a university chair.
I went in there because I was fascinated with natural processes.
And by using physics, chemistry and mathematics, you can actually start to understand.
You don't completely understand them, but you get an understanding.
I've noticed over the years, I used to go to the the Heartland Institute conferences in America and the Heartland Institute seems to be a One of the main think tanks which gives a voice to, let's say, scientists who are skeptical of the current, we're all doomed and it's all our fault paradigm.
And I noticed even 10 years ago that most of the speakers were getting on a bit.
They were retired.
They were emeritus professors rather than sort of What's the opposite of an emeritus professor?
You know, ones who were younger, ones who were still... Well, it's a criteria as a professor.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
But quite a few of those old boys have died off.
I mean, some taken before their time.
I'm still... Do you know what?
I'm still very suspicious about the death of Bob Carter.
I don't see... People as healthy as Bob don't drop dead of heart attacks like that.
They do in today's COVID world.
Yeah, well exactly.
We can come on to that.
There don't seem to be many younger scientists coming up and calling bullshit on all this.
They all seem to have now drunk the Kool-Aid and just accepted the money, accepted the hush money.
Is that a fair comment?
Well, it's a career-destroying move, which no young scientist is going to take.
Now, fortunately, when I started to make noise about this, I was a senior chair and I had been In two different universities, I was fairly powerful and younger people, when they become a bit older and leave the system, then we'll say, well, this is what I've always thought.
But when they're in the system, you can't buck it.
The system is too powerful.
If you want to get research grants, which is the only way to stay alive in the system, then you have to follow the popular paradigm of the day.
And when I sat on the Australian Research Council, and that was with Bob Carter, We had a war on cancer and if any research grant application mentioned the word cancer, that had to have priority.
Now it's any research grant application that uses the word climate that has priority and you will not survive in the university system unless you get research grants.
So the young people aren't stupid.
Some of them are very much aware that they would destroy their career if they stepped out of line.
And we have this fear that it has gone right to the community.
People talking out about sexuality, people talking out about all sorts of subjects.
You're not allowed to do it any longer.
And so in universities, we've lost that ability to be free thinkers, to have freedom of expression.
Yes.
But there's a difference, isn't there, between Between not saying stuff because it's politic, not saying stuff to keep your job, and not saying stuff because actually you believe all the bullshit.
Have we not reached the point now where the actual knowledge, in as much as science was ever incorrupt, which I don't believe, I mean I'm sure that even I think there are even doubts about Newton and his, some of his science.
So it goes back way, you know, the Royal Society, a lot of those people were wrong.
And so I'm not, I'm not sort of absolving science of skull jugglery in the past.
Nevertheless, you come from a generation Which had a degree of integrity at least some of you did and now I'm looking at Whenever I see anyone speaking out about climate change and stuff.
I just think these are just shills for The climate industrial complex.
They're not they're not they're not scientists at all.
They're not they're not interested in in the truth Follow the money and for a large number of these people who out there advocating human induced climate change They are eminently unemployable, unless they were in an institution trying to frighten us with this.
And this is what happens.
We have now got a very large number of bullshit jobs in universities, in the civil service, in corporations, right across the board.
We have a very large number of people where if they drop dead... I've lost you there.
Can you hear me?
No, you haven't.
I can hear you and you haven't lost me.
Okay, that's good.
Well, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I've actually reached the point where I pretty much... this is quite unusual.
I haven't done a climate change podcast for quite a while and it's not that I think the subject doesn't matter.
I think it's fascinating.
It's just that what I found was after 10 15 years at the Coalface, writing stories about how the Barrier Reef, for example, the Great Barrier Reef, was not in danger, contra all the stories you read in the Australian press and beyond.
And that the Pacific Islands weren't sinking beneath the waves because of man's selfishness and greed.
And the polar bears, far from being wiped out were actually becoming a pest.
So many of them were there, so greatly had the population expanded.
And it started to become like Groundhog Day for me.
And it must feel that way for you as well.
You keep coming out with these facts, and yet you have this media and an entertainment industry, which completely ignore the truth and just, you know, I mean, David Attenborough, I suppose, being the worst example, and just keep banging us over the head with this fake data and these fake facts. - I think the rubber's gonna hit the road when and just keep banging us over the head with this fake data and these fake
I think the rubber is going to hit the road when, uh, we have massive economic problems From high energy costs, which are directly a result of poor government policy and poor science.
We've seen it before.
We had a long period of poor policy, which led to communism.
We had a long period of poor policy in the Soviet Union that led to Lysenkoism.
That led to tens of millions of people dying.
So I think My approach has been to keep some light on the issue.
When things really get hard for people, when they can't pay their electricity bills, when they can't pay their food bills, when they've got nowhere to live, they'll say, well, how did this happen?
We're a wealthy Western country.
How did this happen?
And they may remember something that James Dillingpole said.
They may remember something that I wrote.
And that's my full on hope.
I need to have stuff put down there For when the rubber really hits the road and we have an economic crisis, and I think the only way we will get out of this is to have a catastrophe, be it a war, be it an economic crisis, be it a pandemic.
Be the whole lot of them put together.
That's the only way people will say, well, hang on a tick.
We were once a wealthy country.
Now we're like Venezuela, or now we're like Argentina.
So I think it's good to have something recorded so people can go back.
And two of my books on climate, Heaven and Earth, and the more recent one, Green Murder, have been somewhat encyclopedic.
And that's for this reason, that all of the arguments are there.
If you can't read them now, then maybe when you're impoverished, you will read them.
We hear of an inflation rate of X percent.
It's really probably double that.
We hear people struggling with interest rates.
Well, imagine you're an employer and you've got a foundry and you've got debt to your local bank and you're about to pour some bronze to make some bells and all of a sudden the power goes off and that bronze freezes in the pot.
You have a choice.
You can try to dig it out, which will cost you money and you're making no money or you just walk away from the business.
And when that happens time and time and time and time again, People will say, we were once comfortable, we were once wealthy.
I remember my parents and grandparents telling me what a good life they had.
What's happened?
So, we have to have stuff written down.
Yeah, but you know what, Ian?
You've just reminded me of that off-quoted passage, I think it's from the Gulag Archipelago, where Solzhenitsyn says, it's the passage that begins, how we burned, and it talks about how When they're in the Gulag, in their camps, they say, if only more of us had done more, if only we'd spoken out, if only this, if only that.
We're not going to... I mean, I hate to be Mr Misery here, but People are going to be quoting James Dellingpole and Ian Plymer in the camps and not before because you've seen and I've seen the mainstream media has become much more of a censorship machine since we started talking about this stuff.
You and I, we could get published in a lot of mainstream newspapers.
Christopher Booker was regularly published in the Sunday Telegraph, in the Mail, Britain's most popular tabloid.
That wouldn't happen now.
You're not getting these stories.
The media doesn't even pretend that it's interested in the truth anymore.
No, that's quite right.
There are fewer and fewer outlets for me to publish.
Yes, I have 10,000 or 20,000 people who are regular buyers of my books, but I'm singing to the choir.
So I will get in front of a group Well, I haven't been cancelled and I have been cancelled right across the traps where people are saying, well, we've never heard this before.
Why haven't we heard it?
But the mainstream media has basically changed from when you started in the media.
The mainstream media now is not interested in anything else but scare stories.
They're generally people who don't try to find the truth.
They're very ill-educated people.
They haven't read.
They certainly got little knowledge of history.
Even if you had a knowledge of history, you'd have to start questioning human induced climate change, but people don't have that any longer.
I know you love your history, as I do, but people don't have that knowledge.
They don't get taught it and they don't have the burning desire.
To say, well, that's interesting.
Let's dig some more.
And you find that as soon as you do a search on the internet, the first 20 or so postings there have all got a language that is geared towards politics, geared towards how we humans are filthy with the environment.
And on we go.
With our school teachers for the last 50 years have been hounding children about how evil The lifestyle is that they have yet the teachers seem to live a good lifestyle.
So we we were certainly up against it.
Yeah.
But you become quite a miserable old bastard since we last spoke.
I have.
Well, it's because I tell you why.
I tell you why.
It's because I realized that.
When I wrote my book, Watermelons, which I think was about 10 years ago now, 20 2011, That's 12 years ago now.
I thought that climate change was the exception rather than the rule.
That is that I thought, OK, so there's a whole field of science, or rather junk science, which has been hijacked by these charlatans and shills.
And they're pushing this agenda, which is not true.
And they're serving the interests of a kind of green corporate eco-fascist elite.
And that this is being used to advance a new world order.
And here are the documents, you know, going back, you can read things like the Club of Rome's statements.
So I was right on that.
What I hadn't realized is that this, what applies to climate science applies to everything.
The whole system is corrupt.
And OK, so look at what happened in Australia.
Like, one of my best ever trips was the trip I took when you were part of it.
You were a big part of it.
When I went to Australia, I think it was in 2012.
And you arranged for me some brilliant jollies, including a trip to far north Queensland in a helicopter with a bush helicopter car.
You'll make bungee.
Bungie is still alive, hasn't killed himself.
Bungie was one of those crazy helicopter pilots where they used them to herd cattle in the outback and things like that.
And he took me over, I don't know what the river was, it was in far north Queensland.
The Daintree River I think it was.
The Daintree River.
Yes.
And he spotted a huge salt salty, a huge saltwater crocodile sunning itself.
And he dived down and touched it with his skits and was just thinking if he'd got his timing wrong by a fraction of a second, that would ask be being chomped up by a salty.
And Those people still exist.
I saw Bungie about a year ago.
He's now got two helicopters.
They're bigger and better.
He hasn't been eaten by a crocodile.
And these are the true Australians.
They are a little bit crazy.
They don't put up with bullshit.
They know exactly what they're doing and they don't accept any of this sort of stuff.
In this country, the climate change rhetoric is coming out of the cities.
Those people in rural Australia do not accept it.
They see seasonal changes.
Their grandparents kept rainfall records.
Temperature records.
They know that this is a load of bullshit.
These are the real people.
And I'm so glad you met people like that and stayed at Chilligo, which is half up in Cairns in the Gulf.
And you wrote a wonderful story about a woman who lost her brother to a snake bite.
And this is the real Australia.
It still exists.
Yeah, but it's got to be outback.
But the story you tell there.
It can be repeated around the world.
You know, you talk about people in the sort of the backwoods of, I don't know, Indiana, say.
There are still rugged country people, often hunting people, who understand the workings of nature and understand the land and don't buy into the bullshit of the cities.
But they're in a minority and they are an endangered species.
I mean, the people, I agree, the real Australia is in places like Chilligo in far north Queensland, in the outback, is fantastic.
And one yearns to live in a place like that.
But these people are being driven to extinction by the metropolitan liberals who seem to me, I mean, I had a sticky encounter with one of your I think he's retired, yes.
show host called John Fane.
Is he still going?
I think he's retired, yes.
He's a well-known communist, ABC in Melbourne, yes.
Well, they all are, aren't they?
They're all communists.
I mean, the whole of ABC is like the BBC.
But these people are making the running.
I mean, I'm sure that, like in the UK, no sane person takes the ABC seriously.
Nevertheless, they are the propagandists in the same way that Tass and Pravda were in the Soviet Union.
And regardless of whether anyone believes them or not, they set the news agenda.
This is why I argue we need a catastrophe, because people I know don't listen or watch the ABC.
People out in the bush do listen to the ABC because it tells them about local conditions and the local weather, but they don't listen to the mainstream ABC out of the cities.
The people in the bush, they don't live as long as we do.
They generally die a violent death.
They're generally not as healthy as we are.
But they laugh a lot more than we do.
They've had a much better life than we do.
And they're not wealthy people.
So we're seeing that we're having a huge number of bureaucrats appear in the city to actually control those people who are producing material in rural and outback Australia.
So we've got people who are non-producers who have never produced anything.
Who are trying to control those people who are producers.
This is why we need a catastrophe.
We have a food shortage, an energy shortage, a war.
Then people are suddenly going to realize that there is an economy that has kept our nations going for a long time.
And it's not the entitlement economy.
It's not a red economy.
It's not a handout economy.
Yeah, sorry.
I'm looking at the clock ticking away because of our nonsense earlier on where we couldn't get any of the other platforms to work.
We're having to use Zoom.
And I'm not a subscriber to Zoom.
So what it means is that we're going to get a certain number of minutes.
So what I'm going to have to do is end this call and send you another Zoom code, if that's all right, and then we can carry on.
Yeah, it's perfect.
Excellent.
Right, good.
So, I'll end this one now and we'll just... I'll pick you up on that point that I was going to make about... Yeah, send a Zoom as an SMS.
Yeah, I will do.
Okay, cool.
Cool.
All right.
Yeah.
So I had a wonderful time in Oz.
And I think that was one of the particular reasons that when what I consider to be a fake pandemic, I mean, a complete fabrication, fabricated by the World Health Organization, which redefined the term pandemic to say that it fit which redefined the term pandemic to say that it fit its definition, was When I saw what happened in Australia particularly, I was shocked at how rapidly Australia had declined.
I mean, I could see that the cities had been infested by liberals, as in liberals in the American sense.
I could see that.
But I was really shocked when, for example, I saw Dan Andrews's Boot Boys marching round Victoria, Melbourne, where I'd had a great time in Melbourne with some conservative politicos.
And suddenly here were Australians who, I mean, let's not forget, you know, we've all seen Gallipoli.
We all think we've all seen Crocodile Dundee more recently.
And here were most Australians caving to fascism, buying into this kind of junk medical tyranny.
And if that doesn't make you despair, I'd be surprised.
But what was your feeling?
At that time, I was living in Melbourne.
I went to Melbourne for eight weeks of cancer treatment.
I was there for 10 months.
And I was there during that time in 2020.
I was absolutely disgusted.
It wasn't the country that I know.
It's not the country that people died for.
It's not the country that was generally fairly free in thought and was happy to ride anything.
It was a country that had been pushed into terror, had been pushed into being frightened and pushed into obeying dictates, which I think were totally and absolutely unreasonable.
Some of us didn't particularly obey those.
Some of us didn't particularly think that the idea of having untested chemicals put in our body was a smart move.
I mean, some of us are old enough to remember thalidomide.
But for me, the turning point was when a government did a deal such that you couldn't sue the major drug companies about what's going on here.
There's something really, really unpleasant here.
So I'm at a loss to understand how my country has changed so quickly.
For me, it was quite frightening.
Yeah.
And very, very disappointing.
Well, can I ask you an intrusive question?
I wouldn't, but it seems quite germane.
When you were having your cancer treatment, did they make it a condition of your treatment that you had to have the death jab?
No.
No.
And I argued, and was very much supported by the medical team, that the sort of treatment I'm having is boosting the immune system.
Yet if I had a jab, that would weaken the immune system.
It was absolutely and totally contrary To the treatment I was having.
I didn't have chemotherapy because I had about a 2.3% chance of survival if I'd had that.
So I went immunotherapy and I've now, since that treatment started in early 2020, I've had 491 holes put in me with infusions and injections.
I still don't leak, which is quite incredible.
I take a huge number of pills, pounds and patients every day.
And I've had to change a diet, but my treatment has been boosting your immune system.
Now, those poisons weaken your immune system.
I would have thought that if there was some sort of rather nasty flu virus going around, Then you'd want to strengthen your immune system.
That, to me, sounds like common sense.
You don't weaken it.
And you wouldn't be injecting children who were not dying or being even made ill by this thing?
No, exactly right.
And there have been some extraordinary deaths that have occurred.
For example, the footballer who used to play for Southampton, Matt Letizia, I recall, made a comment about In his day, when he was playing Premier League football, no one would fall over on the field and drop dead.
Yet it seemed to be a fairly common occurrence in the European League and in the UK.
And something fundamental has happened.
And he was right.
Something fundamental had happened.
People got something jabbed into them.
Not once or twice, sometimes three or four times.
What impression are you getting?
What's the mood in Australia right now?
I mean because I can tell you that in the UK there is this extraordinary gaslighting operation going on whereby whenever sort of new evidence pops up that people really have been killed or made very very ill by the vaccine and the vaccine that isn't a vaccine and also that this is far more widespread than the media admitted initially.
These people who are having their doubts are being Reassured by the lying media that, no, these instances are very, very rare, and the politicians aren't admitting they've done anything wrong.
Is it the same in Australia?
Is there a cover-up?
Yes, it is.
You tell me a politician who will stand up in public and say, I got that one wrong.
I'm sorry, I got it wrong.
They just won't do it.
We've got Andrew Britton over here doing that.
I think you've got one in Australia, haven't you?
Yeah, yeah.
A couple have hinted at it.
So that to me is fairly dangerous, where as soon as someone expresses caution, again it's a bit like climate.
They either get belted around the head or told, well look, you're wrong, there's nothing to worry about.
We've got the numbers, you don't.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, so the political class and the media are Are sort of stonewalling, circling the wagons, whatever you want to call it?
Yes, with this and many other issues.
Other issues like children changing their gender.
Other issues like the gay and transvestite lobby, where they should count out less than 1% of the population.
And I mean, I think In our countries, we would listen to minorities.
But just because a minority makes a lot of noise doesn't mean that's the path you go down.
And I think politicians now are lacking any courage.
You name me a great politician that exists in today's world that's in power.
There are not too many of them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We don't have the caliber of politicians we had 50, 80 years ago.
But do you think The sort of the chastening experience, the humiliations, I mean is there a sense of buyer's remorse or that people who've kind of fled the field like in the in the red badge of courage now want to go back to another battle to prove themselves better this time?
Have Australians woken up or are they just ready for the next clampdown?
No, I think a lot of people are waking up.
But we are now in a country whereby you keep your mouth zipped up.
You don't say what you think.
Years ago, you'd say what you think, and people would argue with you.
Now, we have been taught not to say what we think.
Otherwise, a ton of bricks will drop on you.
Yes, you're right.
I mean, Australians were were noted for being obnoxious bastards.
I still pride myself in those qualities because that's what it is.
We are well known for being blunt and not taking any bullshit.
But the whole demography of the country has changed.
We are people who live in cities and We now have most of the electorate are in cities.
Very few people who produce food or fibre or minerals or fish live in the cities.
They live outside, but we have so few people that are supporting a very large city population who don't know where things come from.
Yeah, so you're not seeing any sign of, I mean, Our age group sort of remembers how it was, but the newer generations, are you seeing... I mean, there's Topher?
He's younger than us, isn't he?
Well, yes, yes.
There's a few of them.
He's a great man.
If I'd known you were going to mention him, I would have worn his t-shirt.
But there are a few and that's very heartening.
I see in the conservative side of politics there are a few, especially young women, getting into the conservative side of politics and they've got balls.
They know how to fight and they know how to argue.
So, Every now and then, when I think I can give it all away, you actually have these wonderful people arise and appear.
And we've got a few of them appearing in politics.
We've got a few of them appearing in non-mainstream media, but they're rare.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was thinking what you were saying about how we're going to need a war stroke economic crisis.
Stroke whatever to remind people what it's all about and what the truth is.
But I think you've got it with respect, arse over tit, in that the whole purpose of this agenda that we have been fighting for many years, The purpose of the agenda is to achieve the wars, to achieve the starvation, the famine, to achieve the economic collapse.
I mean, sometimes the Greenies are up front about it.
They say they want to de-growth the economy.
The growth model is broken.
They're Malthusians.
And unfortunately, if it were just the unwashed greenies who get paid to go to these rallies, if it was just them, It wouldn't matter because they'd be nothing, but they're paymasters who own the media which give these people coverage and promote this notion that Just Stop Oil are representative of a grassroots movement.
They're the problem, the people with the money, the people who are backing this stuff.
Who are Malthusians who want to depopulate, who want to do all the things.
They want war.
They're not going to think war is a chastening experience which is going to wake us up and make us realise the error of our ways.
This is the plan.
Do you not think?
Well I'll add to that.
I think you're right but I also think that in this country we are very wealthy and we are wasting huge amounts of money and we can afford to do that but there comes a time When you might get called up to fight in a war and the surveys you show that young people won't do that.
Young people are not prepared to give up their wealthy lifestyle.
Young people are not prepared to give up and make sacrifices, which is partly the reason we have a bit of a housing crisis here because people haven't saved.
People haven't gone without for decades such that they can buy something.
So I think we're suffering from the problem of wealth.
And I'm not so sure whether our warlords, our anonymous warlords out there, are going to persuade people to be able to give up a good life, to give up having electricity to charge their phone, are going to be able to give up a good life where they can go out to dinner every second night of the week.
It's a big battle to win that one.
Once people have had comforts, they're not likely to give them up.
So, a war might force them, or an economic recession might force them to do it, but they will do it unwillingly, and then ask the questions, how did we get here?
The thing is, going back to the 1960s, when, who was your Prime Minister at the time?
Menzies.
Menzies took Australia into the Vietnam War.
I can't imagine many affluent Australians Wanted to go and die in the jungles of Indochina for some pointless war that the Americans started.
And yet they did, because you had conscription.
So who's to say they won't have conscription again?
I mean, I see the West gearing up for war, a completely pointless, unnecessary war with Russia, because that's part of their global plans.
What are we going to be able to do to, just because the kids don't want to go, I mean, Well, with the Vietnam War, there were some who didn't want to go.
I think the surveys here show that 60% of people say that if there was a war and they were to be conscripted, they would leave the country.
Now, whether they can leave... What, now?
They say that?
Yes, right now.
Where would they go to?
Well, they would have to be able to leave the country first.
Yeah, so things have changed a lot.
A war with Russia, to me, would be absolutely pointless.
I think mistakes were made in Gorbachev's time when maybe we should have embraced Russia and said, look, you have a Western culture, you have music, History and literature, like we do, we have a lot in common.
Let's let's try to.
They've got better literature than we do, actually.
They produce the world class novels.
Oh, well, what's wrong with the grime and depression of Emil Zola?
I think the French are probably second best.
I think Britain comes, England comes third.
Yes.
So I think there was a fundamental strategic mistake made saying we are all Westerners and let us do things and grow together.
Except I think that there was a Cold War mentality that never left the US and it's still there.
But it's by design.
I mean, it's ancestral.
It's atavistic.
The Western elites have always, you know, look at the great game.
They've had this thing about Russia.
And I used to, you see, in my days, Ian, when I first saw you, I used to read the newspapers and I used to see all these kind of retired generals and admirals writing comment pieces in the Telegraph and stuff.
And they were all hot.
They all thought that the Cold War was still going on.
They were trying to whip it up.
And the American generals the same.
And I thought, why is this?
Why is their understanding of the world so completely different from mine?
And I hadn't realized back then that this is all by design.
That there is this, the establishment, the deep state, whatever you want to call them, who have always, always, always wanted war with Russia.
That it's in their DNA.
And we don't count.
We just have to go and fight and die in these things.
We're just grunts.
But the people in charge who run the world, that's part of the plan.
And I find it scary.
Well, I find it a bit scary also.
There's always arguments that are put up that it's in our economic interest to go to a war.
But I'm not so sure I can think of any wars in the past where it was economically It's a great benefit for a country to go to war, and normally it's the exact inverse.
But there are some economies, and the US economy is like this, is a military economy.
Yes.
It's not an economy based on literature or music or feeding its population.
It's a military economy.
Now, to a lesser degree, we've got the same in the EU and the UK.
And in our country, if we were invaded, it'd take five minutes to invade us.
But the guerrilla warfare out in the bush might be long and tedious.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I must say, at this stage in the world, I don't consider China as big a threat as I do America.
And not the Americans, but the American deep state, the people who are pulling the strings.
Well, you spoke about poking the bear.
I think also the US is provoking China.
Yeah.
And some of these provocations have come as trade.
They've come as competitive military activity.
That's quite normal.
We've seen this over thousands of years.
So, China doesn't have the short-term view that the US has, and China's long-term view will be that ultimately we will achieve what we want to achieve.
We've just got to be a bit smart about it.
By the way, can I say what a huge... because I haven't spoken to you since since the last podcast really um inexcusably actually because um you're a mate and um i should have been more i should have been but we're blokes and i think that's the part of the problem isn't it blokes are not very good yeah it's exactly right keeping in touch so we just carry on as we
so basically we've just carried on this conversation as if we we only we last saw each other five minutes ago and i wasn't sure where you were a lot of issues and i'm really i'm really happy to hear that you were part of the the jab resistance and and that and that you that you saw what was going on because you know what a
A lot of our people didn't, and by our people I mean the climate warriors, the true climate warriors.
But for example, I haven't talked to our old friend Christopher Monckton about this because, you know, he's a completely doughty warrior when it comes to exposing the sort of the new world order connections of the climate industrial complex and just how appalling their science is, and he's a very articulate Indefatigable debater.
But he's completely sold the past on the whole big pharma thing.
He doesn't think there's anything wrong with the vaccines, I don't think.
He hasn't looked into it.
And this puzzles me slightly because I don't see how those of us who can see very clearly the corruption of science and so forth that we've witnessed over the years in climate change, why you can't see the same process, exactly the same process happening with pharmaceuticals?
Well, I did, but I'm old enough to remember thalidomide, and I'm old enough to remember that internationally it was decided that any new drugs, we might spend 10 years or so testing them before we make them widely distributed.
Now, that didn't happen, and it was a very new form of drug.
So that immediately attracted my attention.
And then as soon as there was an abrogation of responsibility, as soon as governments did deals with the big pharmaceutical companies such that there was no ability to sue, I thought, well, now something's wrong here.
Someone knows a lot more than I do about it.
I'm not a medical scientist.
I was unable to argue then, but I've now seen enough numbers.
Uh, to be able to, um, be a bit concerned that this wasn't a vaccine.
Uh, this was a wonderful marketing exercise.
There was a bucket loads of money made and, um, it was a super duper cold that people's natural body immunity would have fought.
Uh, there were certain drugs around that were banished, like, um, ivermectin, for example, um, ivermectin has been around for a long time.
It's had hundreds of millions of people use it.
And we know it doesn't kill you.
If you look at one of the states of India, they managed to kill off COVID by using ivermectin.
So none of these things were considered.
Yes, none of these things are considered.
And it's very much the way it was in the climate industry.
Any alternative arguments were not considered.
They weren't even argued.
They were just dismissed.
And I think when you've got a totally new Vaccine procedure, not a totally new disease, but a totally new vaccine procedure.
We have to be fairly robust.
Now we have the problem in this country that the The organisation that gives approval for drugs is called the Therapeutic Goods Administration and they are partially funded by the federal government and 95% of their funds come from the pharmaceutical industry.
So, I'm not so sure we're getting independent advice on what drugs we should be taking and shouldn't be taking.
Only 95% Ian, come on!
I think Australia tops, and you know, I see it with Medicos.
They will go to a conference in Hawaii, and this might be paid for by a pharmaceutical company.
They have hot and cold running maids and business class flights there, and all they can eat and drink.
And they will then recommend certain drugs to be used.
Now, I know with my own cancer that my oncologist would say to me, I'm going to put you on this drug.
I'd say, no, you're not.
You're going to give me half a dozen scientific papers on the efficacy of this drug, and we'll talk about it tomorrow.
And I lost one of his colleagues.
He couldn't handle this.
How dare a peasant question him?
And I was looking at the scientific method, and they would maybe have 800 people, and they tried a drug, and 300 had some sort of response.
But most of the drugs were tested on between 50 and 100 people.
And I would look at that and think, well, you know, out of that 75% showed some result.
Okay.
I'll take it.
And I did point out a number of times to my oncologist, I said, look, in via chemistry, we might have a batch of a hundred thousand samples.
And we argue about the interpretation.
You've got 83 patients who have taken this drug and you're telling me that it's going to work.
I don't accept that.
So.
I approached my treatment with enormous skepticism.
I wanted to understand the processes, what each drug was doing.
Many of the drugs I'm on are out of patent, but it doesn't mean the drug doesn't work.
And this was my body.
It was my life.
And if I'd gone a chemotherapy route, I would have died in probably August 2020.
So the same approach that I took with COVID, All with climate, I took with my own body.
Now I'm alive.
I'm a bit of a hateful specimen, but I'm alive.
A lot of people are going to be interested in this, actually.
They're probably going to find this the most interesting part of the podcast.
Not that you haven't been interesting elsewhere, but you see, I think cancer has become such a big thing in the public imagination, and we know cancer is the business model of Big Pharma.
It's, you know, when the Flexner report was produced, that's where they really make the money.
And I think the promotion of the Big C is part of that thing.
I'm sure it's the reason why you have all these stories in the newspapers about X or Y heroically battling against cancer.
It's to constantly promote in the public imagination, this is the thing you should fear most.
And people It's also, by the way, I think that the source of the NHS is extraordinary hold over the public imagination.
They associate the NHS somehow with being able to protect them from the bogeyman of cancer.
So you've applied the scientific method to your treatment.
How easy is it to get sort of bespoke treatments like yours?
I mean, is this?
Very, very easy.
There's a huge amount out there.
There are very few medical practitioners that will do something, but I've had to have some catastrophic changes to my life.
Cancer feeds on sugar.
So I've had to give up beer.
Oh, they're terrible.
They're terrible.
Yeah, I know.
That's shocking.
However, there's some good news.
One of the drugs I take is resveratrol, which is found in red wine.
So I have a substitute.
And there's a wonderful book written by a lady in the UK, Jane McClelland.
I think it's called How to Starve Cancer.
And she was stage four.
She was told to go home, get your affairs in order and kiss the budgie and say goodbye.
And she realized that cancer may not be A genetic disease, but may well be a metabolic disease, because 80% of your immune system's in your gut.
And so she put out a wonderful book on a diet, and it's very little different to a keto diet, and all sorts of drugs and what these drugs do.
So there's a lot of information out there in public.
A lot of these drugs are not these heavy drugs that have you reeling for days.
A couple more drugs to take tonight.
If people want to have a good sleep at night, they will take melatonin, and they'll take two or three milligrams.
Well, I take enough to kill an elephant.
I take 240 milligrams a day.
I haven't taken it yet.
I'll take it after I talk to you, just before I go to bed.
And that's an anti-cancer drug.
You know, you can't get it in the UK.
Banned.
Really?
Yeah.
I think every country, there are certain drugs that they ban and I think that different countries ban different things and they're probably drugs that are efficacious in the treatment of cancer.
I'm sure that is the case.
Ivermectin is another drug that's very useful for cancer.
So these are the drugs I take.
Have you been trying apricot kernels, Hamza apricot?
I've been trying kernels of various things, apricots, There's a bit of cyanide in them, but a little bit of cyanide doesn't do you any harm.
That's right, it's in apple pips, isn't it, as well?
Yeah, yeah.
For any of the viewers out there, there is a lot on immunotherapy, on diet, and I'm not suggesting to anyone just change your diet.
You've got to take some pretty serious That will attack the protein sheets in your cancers, will stop the cancers doing this and that, build up your immune system.
And that's what I have been doing.
That's really good.
By the way, how is the keto diet?
Is it?
Well, I rather like it actually.
You know, in the morning I have a bit of chook food.
I've cut out things that I like, like spuds and Pumpkin, but I have plenty of meat and plenty of fat on the meat.
I've had half of my keto diet tonight.
When we finish tonight, I'll have some greenery and things that I like.
I mean, I like raw cabbage.
I like raw Brussels sprouts.
You can cook them or have them raw.
I don't mind them.
So, it's very different from a diet I had as a child.
So, I've learned a number of things in this journey.
I'm not so sure we're going to a cancer hospital and having radiation therapy and chemotherapy is the way to go.
There are other directions to take and there's a lot of literature out there on it.
I've also learned that maybe cancer isn't 100% a drug that's genetic.
It could well be related to your diet.
It may well be related to a metabolic problem and it may well be triggered by stress.
And we've all had our stress in life.
I've had some fairly exciting times in life and each person responds to it differently.
So I would say to any viewer out there that's got cancer, hit it hard, hit it early and get a second opinion, get a third opinion, get a fourth opinion, but don't get it from the same people in the same club.
Go to someone who's integrated medicine, where they're looking at the body as a whole, rather than just a straight oncologist.
Mate, I think that's a good way to end the podcast.
I'm really happy.
I'm really happy for you.
And it's good to see you looking so well.
I'm feeling as if I could wrestle a crocodile.
I really am feeling good.
And I'm really sorry that I haven't spoken to you before.
And for any other viewers out there, if you want to lose weight, get cancer.
I've lost about 30 pounds.
Where can people find you, Ian?
Read your stuff, etc.
Well, I've got a book that came out a year or two ago called Green Murder.
And at a conference in mid-August, I'm putting out a book called The Little Green Book.
And this is a book for children.
And to be read by the parents or grandparents if they're too young.
And this is a book of sedition, a book of questions about their lifestyle, their the climate, what they're being taught at school.
And basically, somewhere along the line, you pick up people who read this and suddenly change their mind.
And I've met a number of people that have changed their minds.
And that inspires me to keep going.
So the Little Green Book will be coming out by my normal publisher, Connell Court.
I think the 19th of August is my launch date.
That sounds like a perfect gift for every child, every indoctrinated child in your life.
Great.
Ian, thank you so much.
Everyone, thank you for watching and listening.
I really appreciate your support.
I think the best place to support me now is locals.
Also on Patreon, on Substack, Subscribestar, BuyMeACoffee.
Lots of you like BuyMeACoffee.
I really appreciate it.
Thanks.
But if you sign up to some of the other ones, you get early access, which you may consider being worth your while.
I certainly would.
I can't get enough of James Dellingpole.
I live with him all the time.
Ian, thank you again, mate.
And I'm sorry that Australia is so buggered.
We will see you.
I'm sorry too.
I can't even get out and move to New Zealand.
It's even worse.
No.
Yeah, exactly.
I know.
I know.
Anyway, please resend my love to all the Aussie crew.
I will.
Thank you.
I miss them greatly, and I miss the lucky country.
Okay.
All right.
Cheers.
Bye.
See you.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
That was great, mate.
Good to see you well.
Okay, yeah.
Well, I am well.
I'm feeling very well, and the stem cell count has gone down a lot, and I've got another test coming up in a month, and we'll see.
Great.
OK.
Well, listen.
Obviously, if I come over there, I'll definitely look you up.
And if you come over here... I'm likely to be over your way, end of November, early December.
OK.
Let's meet up.
OK.
Yeah.
OK.
If I'm not hunting.
All right.
See you, mate.
OK.
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