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Jan. 24, 2023 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:38:18

John Hamer

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	Welcome to The Delling Pod with me, James Dellingpole.
	And I know I always say I'm excited about this special guest.
	But before I introduce you to my exciting special guest, first a word from our sponsor, Thor Holt.
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	Now, my exciting special guest, John.
	John Hamer, I have to say that this has been a long time coming.
	I should have had you on ages ago.
	I have been a massive fan of yours since at least I heard your Bravura podcast with German Warfare on the Titanic.
	Which is a great story.
	I think we're not going to go there today because it, I mean, your full presentation is quite a long, it's quite epic, isn't it?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I mean, I once did a four hour live show on the West Coast of America and it was, yeah, I'd say four hours and I didn't cover everything.
	I didn't cover all the information that would have, you know, kind of put the story completely to bed.
	So, it is a very long and complex story, but it is, yeah, as you say, it's amazing.
	It's just an epic thing.
	Um, this is boring, John, but I'm still hearing crackling on your... Oh, no.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	Okay.
	But you're doing it on the phone, aren't you?
	I'm on the phone, yeah.
	Hang on, let me just see if I can... I've got a fan heater on here.
	Let me just see if that makes a difference, James.
	It's so cold in here.
	I can't get the room warm at all.
	Oh, I don't want you freezing.
	No, you're still crackling.
	Right.
	Right.
	That's not good, is it?
	Well, it's not good given that we did a test the other day, and you were absolutely perfect.
	Right.
	That's very strange.
	Very strange.
	I don't know what to say, really.
	Oh, gosh.
	It's just so frustrating, isn't it?
	Well, it is.
	It is.
	Well, keep going.
	Talk again.
	Yeah.
	Are we starting again right from the beginning?
	Yeah.
	Was anything salvageable at all from last time?
	Well, the thing is, it was just irritating, wasn't it?
	it they they having their it was you know okay i think i'll just edit out this this this well well well we'll crack on because i think i mean i think it's audible It's just slightly imperfect, that's all.
	Anyway... All right.
	Right.
	We're not going to do the Titanic today, but do you just want to... Give us the TLDR, the really brief version about... Basically, it was an insurance job, wasn't it?
	Basically, yeah.
	I mean, there are two elements to it, actually.
	It's even to do a kind of a in a nutshell thing is pretty difficult, but I'll give it a go.
	Yeah, basically, it was it was an insurance job.
	Titanic, for those who are not aware, had a almost identical twin sister called Olympic, which is actually the first one of the short production line of three.
	And Olympic was a jinx ship right from the beginning.
	It had Several accidents in its first year of service.
	It was it was launched the year before Titanic at several accidents culminating in one huge one where it actually collided with a British battleship called HMS Hawk in Solent or just at the mouth of the Solent just off the coast of the Isle of Wight and It was declared a wreck Okay, it was officially declared a wreck, RMS Olympic.
	It was unsalvageable.
	It had a twisted keel amongst many, many other things, but the really key issue was the twisted keel.
	Any ship that has a keel that is twisted is a write-off.
	And it was, as I say, it was actually declared, officially declared a wreck.
	But yet, miraculously, A few months later, it was suddenly back in service, in perfect condition.
	And of course, what had happened was that the ships had been switched.
	It was an insurance scam.
	They patched Olympic up to be fit for one last voyage, dressed up as Titanic, and they sank it deliberately.
	There were other elements to the story as well, you know, several.
	One of the major elements, which I won't Kind of do a spoiler for right now and several other minor elements that actually all came together to make this one incredible story.
	I mean, I spent two years at least researching this stuff full time.
	And, you know, it's it is a very, very long and complex story.
	And obviously wrote the book about it as well, which I call RMS Olympic.
	When people ask you what you do for a living, what do you say?
	I say I'm an alternative historian, researcher and author.
	Before that you were in IT?
	Yes.
	Can I ask a rude question?
	Do your books sell?
	I mean, obviously it's not JK Rowling kind of sales, but yeah, I mean, The Forgification of History has sold about 70,000 copies, which, you know, for the kind of book that it is, the genre that it is, It's a lot of sales, yeah.
	No, no, you don't even need to defend that.
	I mean, I've never sold 70,000 of any book I've written.
	Right.
	And I wasn't even casting aspersions on your abilities as an historian and a writer.
	No, no.
	I was more curious to see how much the gatekeepers of the publishing industry, how effective they were at preventing voices like yours from being heard.
	Yes, that's a fair question.
	I mean, obviously, I'm self-published.
	I don't have a... Yeah, but more profits.
	Yeah, more profits, but obviously less, shall we say, marketing power.
	Well, yeah, you're not going to get on Radio 4's Start the Week if that still exists.
	I don't know whether it does, but... I don't know either.
	But, I mean, regardless of the actual content, no, you're right.
	I wouldn't manage that, no.
	So we've started with a fairly harmless piece of alternative history because, I mean, nobody's affected by it, whether or not the Titanic did hit an iceberg and go down or whether it was an insurance job.
	But there are some historical issues where people get really, really upset.
	And there are huge industries designed to prevent one asking any questions about it.
	And I think you know where I'm going with this.
	I'm talking about dinosaurs.
	Yes.
	I mean, the D word.
	Just by way of introduction to this subject.
	My baby granddaughter came over to stay with us over Christmas.
	And she was wearing dinosaur pyjamas.
	And I'm very aware by how much Children from a very young age are exposed to the idea that dinosaurs are a thing, were a thing.
	They all have names.
	They're all readily identifiable.
	I think it particularly appeals to the autistic tendency in boys.
	Boys are very, very good at telling a Stegosaurus from a Triceratops from an Allosaurus.
	All these names that have been attributed to these animals.
	And kids love being taken to the Natural History Museum or its equivalents around the world where of course the main hall is always dominated by a dinosaur skeleton.
	So we have something that is imprinted on my consciousness from a very early age and I have developed this theory of late which is the more they tell us about stuff, I mean a good example would be The story of vaccines and Edward Jenner and cowpox and dairy maids and all this stuff.
	The more they tell us about it at school, the more likely it is that this stuff is not kosher, as it were.
	That they're trying to sell us a story that isn't actually true.
	Absolutely.
	Dinosaurs.
	You know about this, don't you?
	I don't.
	Yeah.
	Dinosaurs never existed.
	I mean, I'm absolutely 100% convinced of that, James.
	There's so much information that actually proves that premise.
	You know, they're just another, basically dinosaurs are just another patch to prop up an insubstantial theory.
	And I think we know what that theory is, the theory of evolution.
	Yeah, sure.
	But dinosaurs are used as a transition within the theory of evolution to explain sea to land and land to air creatures.
	You know, you could ask how that possibly could be true.
	But you mentioned it yourself.
	Have you ever wondered why they're so prominent in society today?
	They're absolutely ubiquitous.
	They're everywhere.
	You know, in children's toys, books, games, computer games, films.
	And this is a relatively recent thing.
	You know, and you're right, you have to ask the question, why?
	It's just propaganda to inculcate this idea of this mythical creature into children's minds.
	You know, when you take a look at the facts, you know, they tell us that they died out 65 million years ago as a result of a meteorite hitting somewhere near the Yucatan Peninsula off the coast of Mexico.
	And it's just another flimsy theory.
	There is no proof of this whatsoever, but it's taught as fact in schools and it's taught as fact in universities.
	The whole thing.
	It's just an incorrect premise, you know.
	And, you know, you can ask yourself questions like, why did no dinosaurs, no species of dinosaurs survive when other lizards and reptiles did, even large ones?
	That's true.
	Crocodiles, I mean, have remained pretty much unchanged, haven't they?
	Exactly.
	And we know that they are a very ancient species, so they must have been around when this alleged meteorite incident occurred.
	You know, no culture anywhere in the world has any verbal or written histories confirming the existence or even suggesting the existence of dinosaurs.
	And most significantly of all, no dinosaurs, fossils, have ever been found before the 1850s.
	And significantly, when was the theory of evolution first proposed?
	Yep, you've got it.
	The very same 1850s.
	And, you know, you mentioned that you see these skeletons in the entrances to natural history museums.
	Even the natural history museums themselves admit that all the bones on display are fake.
	They do, however, tell us that the real ones are kept under lock and key because they're way too valuable to actually be shown to the public.
	No one's allowed to see them, though.
	Which is, of course, very convenient.
	Only the top authorized paleontologists are allowed to see the originals, the tellers.
	I've actually got a quote here, which I'd like to read out for me.
	It's actually from a scientist who's from the Smithsonian Institute, which is obviously a very famous institution that deals, in fact, with dinosaur fossils.
	And he actually said, his name is Dr. Storrs Olsen, and he actually said, and I quote, the idea of dinosaurs and the theropod origin of birds is being actively promulgated by a cadre of zealous scientists acting in concert with certain editors at Nature and National Geographic magazines, who themselves have become outspoken and highly biased proselytizers of the faith.
	When did he say that?
	When did he say it?
	I'm not sure of the exact date.
	the first casualties in that program, which is now just becoming one of the grander scientific hoaxes of our time.
	When did he say that?
	When did he say it?
	I'm not sure of the exact date.
	It's a few years ago, but I don't know the exact date, I'm afraid.
	Yeah, so, you know, I could actually at that point say I rest my case.
	So where do they get all these very convincing looking skeletons?
	Well, it's funny you should ask that because I was just going to come on to that.
	There's actually a huge factory in China, in Sichuan province in China.
	It's called the Zigong Dino Ocean Art Company and it has a very prominent website.
	I would encourage anyone to look this up.
	And it actually states on its website that real animal bones are melted down, mixed with glue, resin and plaster, then used as a base material for recasting as dinosaur bones.
	And they brag quite openly that they supply every major natural history museum in the world with this stuff.
	You know, so, you know, the entire dinosaur industry, as far as I'm concerned, is just one big sham.
	It's a psyop, basically.
	So when I read, occasionally I see in the newspapers, not that I read newspapers, but occasionally I glance across at my wife's copy and I'll see a story about how the most complete dinosaur skeleton is about to go on auction and its estimated price is sort of 18 million dollars.
	Yeah.
	Well, yeah, it's just made up nonsense because You know, self-admittedly, the paleontological industry, if you can call it that, self-admits that no dinosaur, no complete dinosaur skeleton has ever been found.
	And I think even that is a gross exaggeration, because at best, what they have found are a few random bones which could have come from anything.
	You know, they build these These representations of dinosaurs, and they're very fond of doing that, reproduction of full dinosaurs based on a few scattered bones.
	So even the pictures of dinosaurs that we see are just basically reconstructions from somebody's idea of what they What wishful thinking tells them that these things look like I mean, it's just it's just all nonsense from start to finish James to be honest, right?
	So I wonder what it's like that there must be people out there who've Maybe when they were young they watched Friends and they saw that one of the characters, Ross, was a paleontologist and they thought, oh I want to be like Ross, what a fun job studying dinosaurs.
	And then they must have gone into this, maybe they did biology at school and then they go to university and study archaeology or something and then they They finally get their job working at the Natural History Museum.
	Do you think there's a sort of moment where they get taken aside and taken into a kind of sealed room and told something you want to know about your chosen field?
	Yeah, that is an interesting premise.
	But I think it's, I mean, maybe that does happen when you reach a certain level.
	But I think it's more a case of everything Not just in paleontology, but every discipline you can imagine, you know, where there is a falsehood going on.
	I think it's a case of information is passed down on a need-to-know basis only.
	So if you imagine everything is pyramidal, you know, any organization you can think of is a pyramid.
	Even a small quarter shop, you have the owner and then the manager and then maybe a couple of assistants.
	Everything is pyramidal in structure, and information is only passed down that pyramid on a strictly need-to-know basis.
	So the very bog-standard paleontologists who work at the bottom of the pyramid, they probably just propagandize just like the rest of us, and they won't know what they're dealing with.
	I think it's only at the very top levels where the truth will be apparent.
	But I mean, again, I've got another quote here, and this is from a A molecular biologist, and it's more to do with evolution per se rather than dinosaurs.
	Yes.
	But I'll read that out if I may.
	It's very interesting.
	Now this guy only wanted to be referred to as Sam for obvious reasons when you hear the quote.
	But he said, and I quote, to be a molecular biologist requires one to hold on to two contradictory insanities at all times.
	It would be insane to believe in evolution when you can see the truth for yourself.
	Two, it would be insane to admit you don't believe in evolution.
	All government work, research grants, papers, big college lectures, everything would stop.
	I'd be out of a job and relegated to the outer fringes where I couldn't earn a decent living.
	The work I do in genetic research is honourable, but in the meantime we have to live with the elephant in the living room Intelligent design is that elephant in the living room.
	It moves around, takes up an enormous amount of space, loudly trumpets, bumps into us, knocks things over, eats a ton of hay and smells like an elephant.
	And yet we have to swear it isn't there.
	And I think that just about sums up the whole paradigm, if you like.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I see that.
	I was just thinking of another example of this, because You can see why, suppose we accept that dinosaurs are a psy-op.
	I mean, it would have to be a fairly comprehensive psy-op for it to work.
	So you'd need all aspects of our culture, ranging from the industry that makes children's pyjamas and the industry that makes those wonderful little stickers book, you know, those things where you rub the back with a biro and it transfers.
	I used to love doing that.
	I love my dinosaur transfers.
	And then you've got a paleontologist being written into Friends and the stories planted in the newspapers, you know, oh 18 million, wow, they're really rare but special and they're covetable.
	And then the most recent one, do you ever watch Yellowstone?
	No.
	You don't watch TV?
	I don't watch TV at all James.
	Okay so I'm a TV critic so I'm allowed, I have to do it.
	Fair enough, we'll let you off.
	So Yellowstone, it's quite a good series, it's got Kevin Costner in it as a sort of a rancher.
	And in the first season, one of the running sort of subplots is about this dinosaur skeleton which is found on the Indian reservation.
	And it looks like you would imagine a dinosaur skeleton is supposed to look.
	All the bones are arranged in order and stuff.
	And I'm watching this stuff now, listening, you know, having borne in mind what you've said, and I'm thinking, God, this is just like product placement.
	This is lie placement, lie reinforcement, isn't it?
	Yeah, definitely.
	And it's dropped in gently.
	Yes.
	I mean, the thing is, you know, the people who perpetrate these myths, they don't have to fool everybody.
	They only have to fool the people who control what we see, read and hear.
	You know, they don't even have to fool them.
	They can bring them into the plot, as it were.
	But it's quite easy for anyone who is not in the know to be actually hoodwinked by all this.
	You know, it's a very subtle process and, you know, we're not just talking about the dinosaur situation or evolution.
	There are so many other elements of the grand conspiracy, for want of a better word.
	And they all work in exactly the same way.
	And why wouldn't they?
	Because it's a tried and trusted formula that works.
	It's a case of keeping some people privy to certain things and making sure that the information does not filter down the pyramids.
	Yes.
	Which is not difficult to do.
	We should move on to an even bigger one.
	I mean, thinking about it, evolutionary theory is one of the most all-encompassing psyops, assuming it is a psyop, in our culture.
	It is one of the absolute biggest...
	The number of times I've read articles, since being aware that it possibly is a sale, the number of newspaper articles, magazine articles I've read involving science or history of some type, which make reference to evolutionary theory as something which is taken as read, is extraordinary.
	It's so embedded in our culture and until two years ago I was certainly
	One of those people who thought anyone who thought that, that evolutionary was, was suspect was basically a kind of creationist, Christian crank, probably associated with the Westboro Baptist Church, you know, they've got these kind of token crazy right wing Christians that they use to sort of represent the whole of the Christian faith and, but so tell me what why would you why should one be suspect about evolutionary theory?
	Well, I actually I do a standard presentation because one of my other branches of strings to my bow if you like is I'm a stand-up speaker I speak at conferences and I talk about all this kind of stuff and much more besides now, okay, so Let's go a little technical here now a simple one cell bacterium contains DNA information units that are the equivalent of of 100 million pages of the Encyclopedia Britannica.
	Okay, just as a kind of a rough guide.
	That's a single-celled bacteria.
	Bacteria or much, should I say.
	Now, as we all know, the basic functional unit of a cell, well I say we all know, but I'm saying it, the basic functional unit of cell is a protein.
	Okay, and Proteins comprise hundreds of different amino acids and to even work they all have to be in the right order.
	Now a single cell bacterium alone contains thousands of different proteins.
	Now the guy who allegedly discovered the DNA molecule, which I'm not absolutely convinced about, a guy by the name of Francis Crick, at Cambridge University in the 1950s, he calculated the odds of a protein occurring by chance as being 1 in 10 to the power of 260.
	Okay.
	So in simple terms, that is a 1 followed by 260 zeros.
	So just again, for comparison purposes, that number is greater than the number of atoms in the known universe.
	Just let that sink in for a moment.
	That number is greater than the number of atoms in the known universe.
	Now, mathematicians classify as impossible anything having greater odds than 1 in 10 to the power of 50.
	Okay.
	You know, this is simple maths, simple-ish maths, but what it means is, in real terms, it would have been impossible to get one protein by chance, let alone the thousands of different proteins that a single-celled bacterium would need to function or even exist.
	And even more than that, a cell would need the ability to ingest nutrients, It would need the ability to expel waste and also to reproduce.
	Hence, if a cell ever was to develop by chance, which, you know, as we've already, as I've already demonstrated that it would be classed as impossible, that very first cell would have had to develop and perfect the process of cellular reproduction in the span of its single lifetime.
	Because if it didn't, there would never have been a second cell.
	And Darwin's ridiculous evolutionary process would have ended right there and then.
	That would have been end of game.
	So, the whole thing is a completely ridiculous premise.
	Okay.
	That sounds like it could be a killer argument for some people.
	Yeah.
	You know, one thing I've found is that people, different people, have different ways into understanding these things.
	It's a bit like, to take the moon landings for example, some people are persuaded by the Van Allen belt, the radiation belt.
	Yeah.
	Those are the sort of science-y minded people.
	Some of us, I'm of a more literary sort of Sociocultural bent so the one that persuades me much more is is the the astronauts Testimony that this is not.
	Yes of many who've seen the wonders of the universe and some people are Persuaded by the the more visual people are persuaded by the flags and the and the The lighting and stuff and it's saying we've got different ways in.
	I mean the one that persuades me more and the one that first raised doubt in my mind was mentioned to me by my old friend Christopher Booker and Christopher Booker I think was the greatest journalist of his generation certainly in the UK and he became like an honorary dad to me.
	We used to have these long conversations about all sorts of things.
	Mainly I have to say about Climate change, you know, we were both onto the climate scam or we both knew it was a con but Towards the end of his life, when he was dying of cancer, he mentioned to me that he had reservations about evolutionary theory.
	I thought, oh, that's a bit controversial.
	He didn't really write much about it, but I know he'd been on conferences.
	He'd been invited for special kind of discussion sessions with people like Peter Thiel, the tech entrepreneur.
	And I thought, well, this is quite niche, but interesting.
	And anyway, the point he made to me was, Look at the fossil record.
	The fossil record, where are the intermediary fossils?
	The ones that show species transitioning?
	And that makes more sense to me.
	Just explain that briefly.
	Definitely.
	Yeah, I mean, absolutely.
	I mean, I wasn't kind of intimating that the mathematical side of it, the scientific side of it was the only element to it.
	That was just kind of a lead into it.
	But you're absolutely right.
	I mean, this is where the whole thing falls down anyway, because there are no transitional species.
	Even Darwin himself was puzzled by this.
	And, you know, he actually Don't have its hand, but it's in one of my books and he one of his quotes actually said why are there no transitional species?
	This is a real puzzle, but then he kind of answered his own question by saying well There possibly hasn't been enough time yet for us to find these transitional species fossils in the in the rock formations But that okay that only held water for so long.
	It's now 150 years since Darwin's death And some.
	And, you know, we still haven't found any.
	You know, the scientists talk about this quest for the missing link to absolutely prove it beyond all shadow of a doubt.
	But they aren't talking about the missing link between apes and humans.
	They're not talking about the missing links between all the other millions, literally millions of different life species, you know, which also do not exist.
	There are none.
	Full stop.
	These hardline evolutionists will tell us that the record in the rocks tells us that evolution is real.
	Well, I'm sorry, they're lying.
	They know damn well that it doesn't.
	It actually proves the opposite.
	It proves that there are no transitional species at all.
	So yeah, absolutely take that as read, James.
	Didn't I hear on another podcast say that there's evidence of a kind of conspiracy to promote this idea you've got sort of high-level Masonic lodges?
	Absolutely, yeah, well obviously Darwin was a 33rd degree Freemason, his grandfather was a 33rd degree Freemason who actually promulgated the theory in the first place, Erasmus, and all the Darwin family are very senior Freemasons.
	Now this is a Freemasonic I just go slightly off-piste for a minute and say that one of the things that I talk about in my stand-up talks, I have a talk called The Three Pillars of False Science, and of which evolution is one of them.
	And I kind of make the point that these three things together create this false reality that we all live in, and which has been actually propounded originally by Freemasons.
	So yeah, the 33rd degree Supreme Council of Freemasonry, about a hundred years ago, revealed in its minutes its promotion of evolution as a science, while they were actually scoffing at the idea themselves.
	Now, I can actually read you something from those minutes, and this is a direct quote.
	It says, it is with This object in view that we are constantly arousing a blind confidence in these theories.
	The intellectuals, without any logical verification, will put into effect all the information available from science which our agents have cunningly pieced together for the purpose of educating their minds in the direction we want.
	Do not suppose for a minute that these are empty words.
	Think carefully of the successes we arranged for Darwinism.
	And a further quote is, The kingdom of atheistic Freemasonry will be established by evolution and the development of man himself.
	The false scientific ideology of evolution is a deception set in the 33rd degree atheistic Freemasonic lodges.
	Freemasons openly admit that they will use the scientists and media, which are under their control, to present this deception as scientific fact, which even they find funny.
	And that is a quote from New Age Magazine in March 1922.
	So yeah, absolutely.
	They know that it's fake, and they know that one way of controlling us is by presenting this fake, this false reality that we all buy into, unless people are like you and I, James, and the good listeners.
	You know, but most people buy into this stuff and they know this.
	You know, it's just a control mechanism.
	And basically what they're doing is that they're hiding God.
	They're hiding the Creator.
	Yeah.
	Because, you know, it's dangerous for them.
	There are only a few thousand of them in total.
	There are eight billions of us.
	And, you know, the one way that they maintain control is by fear.
	And another way is by creating a false reality that we believe in, so that it kind of deflects the blame from them.
	That's a poor choice of words, but I think you know what I'm trying to say.
	It deflects attention away from them, I think is probably a better way of saying it.
	Yes.
	So yeah, it's all nonsense.
	Hang on, I'm just going to get rid of this bloody annoying dog that wants to be fed, and I need to get it out of the room because it's just bugging me.
	Yes, John, this makes sense to me in a way that it wouldn't have done before I went down the rabbit hole and learned about things like the 33rd degree of Freemasonry, which is essentially part of a Luciferian project to effectively kill God, isn't it?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	That's what it's all about.
	Similarly with The Big Bang Theory is another false premise, and Globe Earth, but we won't get into that, obviously.
	But yeah, all those, those are three elements of fake science that are meant to actually fool us into submitting to their will, if you like.
	Yes, yes.
	And this has precedent in things like the Tower of Babel, which essentially was... and also it's something that C.S.
	Lewis writes about in his sort of sci-fi trilogy, particularly the last one, that hideous strength, which is essentially about the university of the Luciferian types trying to create, well, trying to replace God by giving man eternal life, you know, having a sort of brain on life support and all these things, which we see again in the transhumanism movement.
	It's all part of the same thing, isn't it?
	Absolutely, absolutely, definitely, yeah.
	Yeah, again, I mean, the transhumanism is one of my big bugbears, if you like.
	I mean, that's going to be the subject of my next book, number nine.
	So yeah, that's in the planning stages at the moment.
	But yeah, transhumanism is their end goal.
	Okay, that is their end game.
	If they achieve transhumanism, the human race is finished.
	Because they do have the power, there are paints out there which are fully searchable on the internet.
	They've got the technology to control our bodies remotely.
	They've got the technology to control our minds remotely.
	It actually exists.
	This is not me being speculative or it's not up for debate.
	This technology absolutely, definitely exists.
	And they have the ability to delete memories, to plant memories, to change what's in our brains or our minds, whichever way you want to define it.
	So yeah, transhumanism, if they ever achieve that goal, and which is the road that we're heading on, and this is part of what, getting off the topic slightly, but this is partly what COVID was all about and the vaccinations.
	If they ever achieve that goal, then the human race as we know it is finished forever.
	So it's vitally important that, you know, you and I do our best to spread this message and wake people up to what is actually going on in the world, James, because, you know, the human race is in severe danger right now.
	I'm totally with you on that, totally with you.
	Can I ask you, when you go around doing your talks, are they mainly kind of John Hamer fans?
	Or are they people who've never heard of you before?
	No.
	Obviously some of them are.
	Some of them are John Hamer fans, if you want to put it that way.
	But no, the vast majority of it, I mean, I'm not really that famous.
	The vast majority of people at my talks have probably never heard me talk before.
	They might have heard my name, they may have got one of my books or whatever, but the vast majority know I'm a stranger to them.
	I think I find your down-to-earthness, it could be the Yorkshire accent and your homely Gerry Adams style chunky knit sweater.
	It's freezing in here, I'll tell you.
	I'm sorry, are you up north?
	Are you in the wild north now?
	Yeah, I live in Scarborough actually, yeah.
	Right, okay, yeah.
	Well, I'm sorry to be torturing you.
	You probably should be in a room with your agar or something.
	I think it's really important that we have on our side people who can say this stuff without looking or sounding like complete bloody loons.
	I mean there's another example I just did recently, Ed Dowd.
	Ed Dowd, who's an ex-BlackRock fund manager, can talk about the COVID mass murder operation, Plandemic, in ways that make it make perfect sense and make it not sound like a conspiracy theory.
	Yes.
	And there's a few more like that.
	Katherine Austin Fitz, I think, has this manner of somebody who's just sort of no-nonsense.
	She wouldn't be making this crazy stuff up.
	Right.
	But I think we should move on, John, to a subject I know is of interest to both of us.
	For most of my life, I have been a massive World War II fan, if that's the right word.
	I grew up in the shadow of the Second World War, in as much as many of my teachers at my prep school had served in the war.
	I remember my art teacher, Mr. Greaves, had been in the Long Range Desert Group, and then he'd gone into tanks, and his tank had brewed up in the Western Desert, and then he'd been in an Italian POW camp.
	In later years, I was lucky enough to do a series of interviews with veterans and some of them became my friends and I wrote books about it.
	And I felt, you know, Dr. Johnson said, every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier or gone to sea.
	And nothing I've learned more recently has changed my opinion of these men.
	And women actually, the nurses I spoke to as well, women who served in my grandmother, sorry, my mother-in-law was at Bletchley.
	I love all these people, they're all decent people who did their bit and did their best.
	Agreed, absolutely.
	However, I now look at World War II with new eyes, realising that the version of events that we've been sold is not quite an accurate one, isn't it?
	And I know that you've done a lot of research, for example, into Churchill, who is sold.
	There's another example of something that is rammed down our throats.
	We are taught as established fact that he is the greatest living Englishman.
	I think there was a competition, wasn't it, on the BBC and you had Brunel, Nelson.
	I'm pretty sure Churchill won because he always does.
	He's got a cigar.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly.
	But apparently you have some doubts about whether he really was such a jolly good egg.
	Well, I think some doubts is probably the understatement of the century, James, to be honest.
	I mean, yeah, again, it's another one of my stand-up talks.
	I can, you know, I can speak long and hard about Churchill and how he's been totally misrepresented to us.
	Yeah, I mean, the guy was He was a monster.
	He was a demon.
	I'm absolutely convinced he was a demon.
	But of course, these are the kinds of people that are pushed and, you know, everything is inverted, isn't it?
	It's satanic inversion.
	Everything is inverted.
	You know, everything that is good is portrayed as bad and vice versa.
	And, you know, Churchill absolutely falls into that category without question.
	Now, he was Many, many things with Churchill.
	None of it good.
	He was a pervert.
	He was a paedophile.
	He was a pederast.
	He spent more money, for example, on women's underwear, which he wore himself, than most working men earned in a week.
	He was a murderer.
	He was a liar.
	He was a narcissist, and... That's quite a long charge, James!
	He's a really great guy, James.
	So, in essence, this is exactly what the Nazi propagandists were telling us, isn't it?
	Yeah, possibly.
	I'm not actually... yeah.
	They said he was a gangster, because there's a famous image of him holding a tommy gun, wasn't there?
	Yes, yes, yes.
	And yeah, well, I mean, those are big claims.
	I mean, first of all, why hasn't this stuff got out?
	Well, it's like anything else.
	I mean, you know, people say to me frequently, very, very frequently, yes, John, if all that was true, though, we'd know about it, it would have come out.
	Well, no, I'm sorry, it doesn't come out.
	The reason it doesn't come out, because all this information It goes against the prevailing narrative.
	It goes against the agenda that we all live within.
	And, you know, people say, well, there'd be whistleblowers by the thousand if this was all true.
	Well, there are whistleblowers.
	There are hundreds and hundreds of whistleblowers.
	The problem is, with any whistleblowing of any kind, is that they don't have a platform.
	You know, it's all very well saying, you know, that there would be all these people coming forward.
	But where, who are they going to tell and how?
	Certainly not the mainstream media.
	The mainstream media is just another adjunct of these evil people that are perpetrating all this nonsense.
	So, you know, it's all very well saying, well, it would have come out if this was the truth.
	Well, it does, and this is how we know it's the truth, but it only comes out in very small helpings.
	So, there are certain people who I trust as whistleblowers, and one of them was a guy called Anthony Thomas Trevor Stokes, who was at XMI6, and he blew the whistle on a lot of stuff.
	Now, he lived to a very ripe old age.
	I think he only died in the very early 2000s.
	He was a contemporary of Churchill, who lived through both world wars, and he was privy to a lot of the secret information which only the secret services knew about.
	He put a lot of this out, not exactly into the public domain as such, but for anyone who knows where to look, his information is freely available.
	It's not being distributed by the bucket load, but it is out there.
	Where do you find this stuff?
	Well, I found it on the internet.
	But the thing is about the internet is that over the last 20 years, obviously up until about, say, I can't give an exact date, but up until the early 21st century, the internet was becoming a ubiquitous tool for finding out almost anything you needed to the internet was becoming a ubiquitous tool for finding out almost But now it's being heavily censored.
	It's being, you know, search engines are being tuned to tune out of information that goes against the prevailing agenda.
	So it's much, much more difficult now to find this information.
	This information I found many, many years ago, but if you try and look for it now, it's not there anymore.
	You know, they don't allow it anymore.
	They soon cottoned on to the fact that, you know, oh dear, the truth is getting out.
	So we've got to do something about it.
	So that's why you get all the censorship.
	This is why you're not allowed to hear anything that goes against the agenda on YouTube or through Google or on Facebook or on Twitter.
	Anything that actually tells the truth about what's really going on quickly gets shut down.
	And this is a problem as researchers that we're facing now.
	You know, but we're soldier on.
	And, you know, I've also got a lot of, I've got a huge collection of books, some of which are more than well over 100 years old.
	And, you know, in those books, you get a lot more truth than you do in books today.
	So quite a lot of the research that I've done is through those books.
	Do you have to control secondhand bookshops or what?
	How do you find them?
	Well, I did, yeah.
	I mean, again, a long time ago.
	I've not done that for a while.
	I'm too busy writing and doing other stuff now.
	But when I first began my research, that's exactly what I did.
	I mean, I've always been a book freak anyway.
	I've always had a penchant for old books.
	And yeah, I used to go around second-hand bookshops and dig into the historical sections.
	And it's amazing what information you can find out from that.
	And yeah, so, you know, quite a bit of my research is through things like that.
	So if I were to, well, obviously Google would be the wrong place, the wrong search engine to use, but if I were to look up Stokes now, has he been sort of airbrushed from history?
	A lot of it has, yeah.
	I mean, you might find some bits of snippets that have escaped the censor's red pencil, as it were, but yeah, a lot of it has gone.
	But, you know, nevertheless, I've saved a lot of research, shall we say.
	So tell me, go on, cut to the chase.
	Give me some of the juicy stuff that you've learned from Stokes.
	Well, yeah, I mean, OK.
	He was, in his younger days, he was, as a politician, you know, an upcoming politician, he was blackmailed over his, shall we say, proclivities for young boys.
	You know, he had an affair with his male secretary.
	He used to be a frequent visitor, even during the war, flying across the European theatre of war to the teenage homosexual brothels in Morocco.
	You know, and he spent, as I say, he spent more on women's underwear per week than most working men earned.
	And, you know... But you've got to, John, you've got to admire, I mean, he risked his life for his, for his, his bum activity.
	I mean, he was dedicated to fly through a war zone.
	Okay, well, we'll give the guy some credit then, yeah.
	It was, yeah, and it was very brave.
	Yeah, he was a brave man.
	Yeah, that would have been surely quite a hard thing to cover up, because you think about the security risks, okay?
	We're flying the Prime Minister, one of the three most important leaders of the Western, of the Allies.
	Yeah.
	I mean, think about being in charge of security for that operation.
	We've got to get him from London, from Whitehall, Westminster, to a gay brothel in where?
	Morocco?
	Morocco.
	I mean, you need fighter escorts.
	I don't know.
	I wonder how they did it.
	I honestly don't know the answer to that.
	And this was quite a regular activity, was it?
	Yeah, apparently so, yeah.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	It was something he did fairly frequently.
	I have absolutely no idea of the security arrangements in place for it, but yeah.
	Like I said, Stokes is a very credible source.
	It's not just me saying that.
	Lots of other researchers, people in my position, people who have done far more sterling work than I. I was going to say this made him eminently blackmailable, but it sounds like you said he was being blackmailed.
	He was being blackmailed.
	Being blackmailed about all sorts of things, and of course he was responsible for the stepping up of World War II, because when World War II broke out in September 1939, there was a period from then until May 1940 called the Phoney War, which I guess most people have heard of, where nothing was really happening.
	There was no fighting going on, there was just sabre rattling.
	Okay, so for the first eight, nine months of the war, There was, you know, it was all quite on the Western Front, to use a phrase.
	And as soon as they decided that the powers that be, you know, the real, the puppet masters decided that the Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, wasn't actually very keen on, shall we say, promoting the war in terms of, you know, making You know, overt moves towards the enemy, then he was ousted.
	You know, he was ousted on some flimsy excuse and Churchill became Prime Minister.
	And I think it was, I could be shot down on this, but I think it was the 1st of May, 1940.
	And on the 2nd of May, 1940, you know, the war was stepped up and the British Expeditionary Force landed in France.
	And at that point in time, This was as soon as Churchill came to power.
	Churchill was being pushed forward, promulgated by a Zionist element within the British establishment.
	He was being paid something like £200,000 a year by them to push the war.
	This is why he ignored all Hitler's overtures for peace.
	Most people think that because of what we're told, by the mainstream that Hitler was the aggressor, Hitler was the villain.
	Well, I'm not saying he was an angel, don't get me wrong, but he certainly didn't want war with Britain.
	There's absolutely no question about that.
	You know, even some mainstream historians admit that.
	He was making overtures to Churchill throughout the whole of that phony war period saying, look, we don't need to fight this war.
	You know, we are natural allies, Britain and Germany are natural allies.
	But Churchill was ignoring that.
	And the reason why he was, well, he wasn't in power at that point in time, but the powers that be were ignoring it because it was not part of the agenda.
	The agenda was to promote World War Two heavily.
	Lots and lots of reasons for that.
	It was a satanic ritual for a start.
	Which sounds crazy, I know.
	No, I'm with you on that one, John.
	It was a massive blood sacrifice, like the First World War.
	Absolutely, absolutely.
	And of course, you know, the Balfour Declaration in 1917 promised Palestine as a homeland for the Jews.
	So it was partly fought for that as well.
	So yeah, I'm kind of getting off the subject here a little bit.
	But yeah, as soon as Churchill came to power, the war began in earnest.
	The BEF went into France.
	Hitler retaliated.
	East at the Blitzkrieg, he drove his forces through Holland and Belgium.
	We were told that he was conquering Holland and Belgium, which was absolute nonsense.
	All he was doing was taking the shortest route to cut off the BEF before they could advance on him.
	And of course, you know, the story then, we know the rest of the story.
	Within days, weeks, it surrounded them at Dunkirk and the massive evacuation took place.
	But what mainstream history doesn't tell us is that Hitler allowed the British forces, he allowed 330,000 British troops to escape from Dunkirk, because at that point in time, he was still hopeful of avoiding all-out war.
	And he thought he could curry favour with Churchill and the British establishment.
	By allowing the troops to go back home.
	Obviously, a lot of them were killed in the process.
	I'm not saying that they just stood back and let it happen, but Hitler had the wherewithal at that point in time to destroy every single, or capture every single British soldier on the beaches of Dunkirk.
	There's no doubt about that.
	And there is no way, if Hitler hadn't allowed it to happen, that the flotilla of small boats That facilitated the Dunkirk evacuation.
	You know, if he'd not wanted that to happen, then it wouldn't have happened.
	It would have destroyed them all.
	But he did allow it to happen purely and simply on the basis that he still did not want war.
	But we're getting off the Churchill point here.
	I do appreciate that.
	But the point is that Churchill was a warmonger.
	He was paid £200,000 a year by the Zionists to promulgate that war against Germany.
	So yeah, I mean, there's all sorts of stuff.
	I mean, I could go on.
	This is, this is, I mean, it's, it's quite shocking for those of us who, I suppose it's shocking for everybody because I went to one of those old fashioned English prep schools, which I used to call Colditz, not very affectionately because it was beautiful.
	And, and on, on Saturday evenings, We used to get out all the gym mats that were made of these scratchy furry stuff that didn't really cushion your fall and you had to wear shorts so you got horrible chapped scratched legs and you sat on these mats and they'd wheel out the school projector and they'd show these films encouraging you in a particular understanding of the Second World War which is reinforced by history lessons and stuff
	And I remember one of the films we saw was Dunkirk, which the original Dunkirk movie was so much better than the rather flashy one done by Christopher Nolan.
	And it had a wonderful theme tune, I think, by Walton.
	And it was great.
	And it stirred up this... Yeah, I saw it, yeah.
	This feeling that Britain was standing alone and this flotilla of boats, you know, manned by old gents, some of whom never came back.
	Yes, yes.
	But you're right.
	This is one of the things that historians have never satisfactorily answered.
	Why did Hitler stop?
	Why didn't he just send in his Stukas and just hammer us to oblivion while we're trapped on the beaches?
	The most fanciful explanation I've heard is the one about how Hitler's tank commanders were all amped up on speed, on methamphetamine, and that methamphetamine could only carry you for so many days before you kind of burn out, and that therefore they'd all achieve burnout by the time they reached the top.
	Anyway, your theory doesn't least sound more plausible.
	Demonization of Germany, and it goes to an absolutely ridiculous extent.
	Again, I'm not saying they were angels by any means, but they were certainly no worse than we were.
	I use the term we loosely, it was nothing to do with me.
	But I'm speaking generically about the country that I actually happen to have been born in when I use the term we.
	You know, the Allies committed just as many atrocities as the Germans did.
	There's absolutely no doubt about that.
	And probably actually more when you take into account things like the fire bombings of Hamburg, especially Dresden, half a million people dead, you know, and something called the Rhyme Meadows and something called the Rhyme Meadows killing fields, which I'm not sure whether you're aware of, James.
	No, not at all.
	What's that?
	Tell me.
	Well, after the war, the Allies, particularly the Americans, but the British and French were involved as well, rounded up every German civilian and soldier they could find.
	Eisenhower, who was Supreme Commander, of course, of the Allied Forces, he actually pulled a flanker and re-labeled, if you like, prisoners of war, disarmed enemy combatants, to get around the Geneva Convention.
	And he stuck all these people, who were around two million, I think it was about two million, he put them in these camps, and I'll use the word very loosely, Which were all next to the Rhine Meadows.
	Okay, they're next to the River Rhine.
	They were called the Rhine Meadows Camps.
	And this is, this is Google-able.
	Probably don't use that particular search engine, but it's definitely searchable on the internet.
	And it is a fact.
	It's not, it's not something that somebody's made up this.
	They put them in these camps, which consisted of barbed wire enclosures.
	Huge, huge acres and acres of barbed wire enclosures.
	1945, when the war ended, was the coldest spring in the 20th century.
	Okay, they were in these camps, in the mud, there was no shelter, no food, no latrines, and they were just left there to die.
	And almost two million of them died.
	Okay, now we never hear that in mainstream history, but it is a fact, and it's easily, easily provable.
	So, you know, things were going on there like, If any sympathetic soldier or one of the guards tried to feed them, they were shot.
	So they were shot for disobeying orders, and that happened on more than one occasion.
	There was an instance where there was an American officer stood on a hill overlooking one of the barbed wire enclosures, and he was firing a machine gun randomly into them.
	For target practice, he said.
	You know, this kind of thing was relatively common, I would say.
	So, yeah, you know, we all hear about the so-called German atrocities and, you know, the biggest atrocity of all, whose name cannot be mentioned without fear of censure.
	You know, but it involves six million men with small hats.
	And, you know, but we never hear about the Allied I do find that very upsetting.
	Two million is a lot of people to just, like... Yeah, absolutely.
	Well, Churchill himself actually expressed that he believed that every single German Citizen, soldier and civilian should be wiped from the face of the earth.
	That was his, that was his goal.
	Did he express that?
	Yes.
	Does, on the record?
	Obviously.
	I don't know about on the record, but I mean, I've seen, I've seen quotes.
	I mean, I can't, obviously I can't verify them absolutely, but I've no reason to disbelieve it because, you know, it, it fits in with a lot of other stuff that he said about, about Germans.
	You know, he, He had this pathological hatred of Germans, which I suspect was engendered by the thought of his £200,000 a year, which in those days was a heck of a lot of money.
	Well, it's a heck of a lot of money these days, but in those days it was a king's ransom, wasn't it?
	With reference to Darwin and others, Churchill too was a 33rd degree Freemason.
	Yes, he was also a Druid.
	He was a member of the Royal Ancient Order of Druids and as was our late beloved Majesty.
	I'm not sure what the Druids actually do or what that's all about, but again it's just another secret society among many, isn't it?
	I don't think they're particularly influential in the same way that Freemasonry is.
	But they're not Christians?
	Sorry?
	They're not Christians?
	No.
	I mean, to be a 33rd degree, you know, never mind the kind of the sort of first and second degrees, which is just kind of like Rotary Club, aren't they?
	Yeah, exactly.
	They just believe that it's kind of a charitable organization.
	Yeah, but the 33rd level is where the nature of the project, the true nature of the project, has been revealed to you.
	And you know that you're serving Lucifer, so it would make sense.
	It would support your theory that he was demonic.
	Have you got any other evidence of...?
	Okay, so we've got the ladies' underwear, the rent boys in Morocco.
	Anything else?
	He's also responsible for three murders.
	We know this.
	I'll come on to that in a minute, but I'll also tell you about the Lusitania as well.
	For those who are not aware, the Lusitania was a ship that was sunk by a German U-boat in, I think it was 1916, off the top of my head.
	And it was the Lusitania sinking that actually brought the Americans into the war.
	Yes.
	Ultimately.
	Because what happened was, Churchill was desperate to get the Americans into the war, because Britain was losing the war in 1915, 1916.
	In fact, some historians actually say that the Germans had actually won it, up until the point where the Zionists approached the British government and said, look, you know, don't surrender just yet.
	Bring the Americans in and we can still win this war.
	OK.
	And so they hatched this plot whereby The Lusitania would be filled full of arms, which we know it was because, you know, divers have investigated the wreck and found a massive cache of arms in there, which was illegal to do, of course, because America was a neutral nation.
	And they were also going to, you know, obviously destroy a load of passengers deliberately.
	Because, you know, that way they would engender public sympathy and the Americans would then have the mandate to join the war.
	And this is exactly what happened.
	The Lusitania sailed as it got just off the south coast of Ireland.
	It was attacked by a German U-boat because the destroyer escort had been removed.
	Right?
	The destroyer escort was told to abandon the Lusitania and then within hours It had been sunk by a German U-boat, which regarded it as a legitimate target because they knew that it was carrying arms.
	Now, there was a famous advert that appeared in one American newspaper, and it was the Des Moines Register, but it was actually scheduled to appear in dozens and dozens of American newspapers all up the eastern seaboard, and it was placed by the Imperial German Embassy.
	Now, this This advert was meant to deter passengers from going on the Lusitania because the Germans knew what the plan was and they knew that they were going to sink the Lusitania.
	Now this notice, and I've actually got a copy of it in front of me, so it's absolutely genuine, and it said, Notice, travellers intending to embark on the Atlantic voyage are reminded that a state of war exists between Germany and her allies.
	and Great Britain and her allies.
	That the zone of war includes the waters adjacent to the British Isles, that in accordance with formal notice given by the imperial German government, vessels flying the flag of Great Britain or of any of our allies are liable to destruction in those waters, and that travellers sailing in the war zone on ships of Great Britain on her office Do so at their own risk.
	The Imperial German Embassy in New York City.
	Now, those notices were removed from every single newspaper.
	They were not allowed to be posted except for the Des Moines Register.
	And somehow, nobody knows how, but that actually got through and it was published unintentionally.
	But it did actually appear in the Des Moines Register on the 22nd of April 1915.
	And I've actually got a photostat of the actual notice itself sat in front of me now.
	So we know that that happened.
	So basically what was happening was that the Germans were trying to be honorable.
	They were trying to let people know that, you know, don't be fooled by this.
	If you go on these ships, any of them, not just the Lusitania, then, you know, your lives are in danger because we are at war with Great Britain.
	So it was a, it was a setup.
	And it was done chiefly by Churchill, but obviously in collaboration with the American government of the time.
	Because the American government at the time, Woodrow Wilson, he was pro-war.
	He was trying to persuade Congress to sanction the idea of going to war.
	But the whole of the American nation was against war.
	They pursued what was called this isolationist policy.
	Isolationist meaning that they didn't want anything to do with what was going on in the rest of the world.
	But of course, that isolationist word came to be a dirty word in the end, because, you know, it kind of became... It was probably manufactured that way.
	Yeah, of course, it became associated with cowardice and all the rest of it.
	Which is what the way these people work, isn't it?
	So yeah, so there was that, there was a Lusitania incident.
	So Churchill was directly responsible for the deaths of 1200 people there.
	And, as I say, the murders, He actually murdered his own mother, or not personally.
	I mean, he never did it actually personally himself, but he ordered the murder of his mother.
	Why would he do that?
	Well, Jenny Jerome, his mother, was an American socialite.
	She'd be, shall we say, very free with her favors ever since Churchill's father had died kind of 20 years earlier, allegedly of syphilis, but who knows.
	She was a huge embarrassment to him.
	And then, two more things happened that actually tipped him over the edge.
	The first one was that he discovered that she had lied about his father's will, in which a provision had been made for him and his half-brother, Jack, to receive £50,000 a year from his father's estate, which again was an awful lot of money, you know, a hundred plus years ago.
	And that, he missed out on 20 years of that.
	So he missed out on, you know, a million pounds in effect.
	You would be quite pissed off though, if you discovered that, wouldn't you?
	Yeah, I would.
	But you know, it's questionable whether you might murder someone over it, but I suppose it's quite possible.
	It certainly was possible in his case.
	So there was that, and then he also found out, and I think this was the real biggie, this was the one that really tipped him over the edge.
	He found out that he'd been conceived before wedlock.
	He wasn't born out of wedlock, but he was conceived before wedlock.
	And this was an enormous stigma in those days, especially for someone in such a prominent position, such a public office.
	He was not a popular man, Churchill.
	He resented that.
	I don't know if you know, but his nickname in the House of Commons was The Shithouse because of his initials.
	Oh, W-C.
	W-C, yes, yes, yes.
	So, you know, it was kind of a double meaning, double entendre.
	You know, he was a shithouse, but, you know.
	So, yeah, he found out that he was conceived out of a wedlock.
	He got a lot of bad press over that and got a huge stigma.
	And he arranged for someone by the name of... Oh my gosh, my brain!
	Who was the famous pathologist of the day at that time.
	He was involved with the Crippin murders and quite a lot of others.
	I can't remember the guy's name, I'm sorry.
	But yeah, he was big pals with him, and this guy basically arranged for her to be bumped off.
	Because what happened was, Jenny actually fell down some stairs, broke a leg, and they saw it as an opportunity to do away with her.
	She wasn't that old.
	And they allowed her to catch gangrene, and she died of gangrene.
	But how, I mean, how would you know this?
	I mean, it's very well hidden.
	For me, how do I know it?
	Or how does one know it?
	How does one know it?
	Yeah, because again, this is all from Stokes, T. Stokes.
	But how would he know?
	I mean... Because he was part of MI6.
	They knew everything that was going on, believe me, and they still do.
	You know, these people are in the know about almost everything.
	MI6, MI5, Same thing.
	Yeah, he had access to all the records.
	Churchill also murdered the head of MI5, a guy called Sir George Smith Cumming, who had tried to blackmail Churchill over the death of his mother.
	Right.
	Yeah, so he had him bumped off as well.
	How?
	He was bumped off by...
	He actually had the temerity, Smith Cumming, to ask to borrow money from Churchill.
	And Churchill was incensed by this.
	So he actually arranged for a guy to go and visit him, ostensibly to take him the money that he wanted to borrow.
	And the guy allegedly, and again, I have no proof of this, but this is what T. Stokes said happened.
	This guy actually gave this guy a lethal injection when he answered the door.
	Stabbed something in him that was poisonous and he died almost instantly Okay, so that was that and he also murdered T Lawrence as well better known to most as Lawrence of Arabia now Lawrence of Arabia the Lawrence of Arabia situation was that he also privy to watch it, you know a lot of Churchill's shenanigans and He wrote a book famous book called the seven pillars of wisdom as a lot of people know Now that wasn't published until after he died
	And the reason it wasn't published until after he died was because before he got a chance to publish it, Churchill had him done away with.
	Most people know that he actually died in a motorcycle accident.
	Well, it wasn't much of an accident, really.
	It was actually... Again, I cover all this in my books.
	I cover this specifically in Behind the Curtain, which is a huge two-volume
	Exposure you have everything that we've just been talking about today James and Yeah, so again, I don't want to go into too much detail because it just drones on and on but yeah Yeah, it was it wasn't it wasn't an accident You know that there are so many witnesses and again so many people died around that time that were privy to the information You know the usual old mo
	You know, a guy who was supposed to give evidence at the inquest, etc, etc, suddenly turned up dead, all that kind of things.
	The motorcycles that Lawrence was absolutely besotted with were called Brough Superior, and they were made, as you'd imagine, by a guy called Brough, and he gave evidence as well that contradicted the official story, and he was told in no uncertain terms that he was not allowed to attend the inquest on on pain of death and his wife said afterwards she actually believed that he was murdered anyway because of the knowledge that he had.
	Really?
	Yeah he had uh he was friends with Brough because he had eight of his really uh they were superb machines you know that at that the technology within those machines at that time in the 1930s was way ahead of any other
	Motorcycle and he and he and Lawrence Brooklyn Lawrence were big mates and Yeah, again, all the details of that are in the book So just briefly the official version was what he had the motorbike just veered off the road and he died.
	Oh, yeah It was it was speeding down a country lane in Wiltshire, I think where it was that he lived and Two young boys on bicycles and They kind of swerved across the road, he swerved to avoid them, and he went into the hedge at the side and died of his injuries later.
	But even his death was very suspicious because he went to hospital, he was in hospital, he seemed to be recovering, then all of a sudden they brought in a brain specialist from London and the next day he was pronounced dead.
	Just briefly, this is reminding me of, I remember you once talking about what it is that got you into all this alternative history.
	Just tell us that story briefly, because I think it does tie in.
	All right.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Well, the thing that kind of brought me into the world of truth seeking, James, was the incident, should I say, was the death of Princess Diana, because my wife and I, we had two Two friends who actually were in Paris that weekend.
	And they'd done, you know, they'd been out to a show and what have you.
	They'd gone to the theatre and out for a meal, whatever.
	Gone back to the hotel room that night.
	Switched on the TV, as you do.
	And the first image they saw on the TV news was Princess Diana walking into an ambulance.
	And they thought, oh dear.
	Oh, poor Diana.
	She's had a terrible accident.
	But she looks OK.
	She'll be fine.
	She'll be fine.
	And she saw them, you know, she saw them walking her into the ambulance.
	And then when they woke up in the morning, switched on the morning news again, Diana was dead.
	So they came back and they told us this, and I thought, no, surely not.
	You know, this was my first, I mean, we're only going back 25 years, but this is my first real kind of shock to the system, if you like, that things are maybe not as we believe they are.
	So it was that that kind of kicked off me.
	Anyway, not that I'm making any comparison, John.
	I just said, let's get back to that.
	Tilly Lawrence, I tell you what, I love Lawrence of Arabia.
	And I've always found that opening scene where it's set in the present, where he dies.
	Bizarre, you know, you've got him accelerating down this open road.
	Yes, and it's never been satisfyingly explained and you're At least you're nasty.
	So you see he you're suggesting he had the dirt on what what do you know?
	Do you write?
	Right?
	Well because he was it was it was good pals with Churchill Well, he was privy to all this information I've just been telling you and he actually wrote a chapter about Churchill in the seven pillars of wisdom and this is what I was kind of going to say, but got sidetracked about the book, The Seven Pillars of Wisdom.
	He didn't have time to publish it.
	And unfortunately, he died before he could do that.
	And then the book was published without that incriminating to Churchill chapter.
	And again, this is Stokes and said that he believes that somewhere in the MI6 or MI5 archives, that chapter from The Seven Pillars of Wisdom is still in existence. - Yeah.
	How come Stokes lived to a ripe old age?
	You'd have thought with all this knowledge he'd have been... It's a good question.
	I don't know.
	Maybe he lived incognito somewhere.
	I'm not sure.
	Or maybe he just had a sort of, what are they called, dead man's keys, where if he was died an untimely death, all this stuff would come out.
	Maybe.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I can't answer your question definitively, James, but yeah.
	So, so far we've got Churchill, according to your version, which I'm not disputing, I don't know, he bumped off his mother.
	He bumped off the head of MI5.
	Yes, Sir George Smith coming, yeah.
	It was C, wasn't it, or M, or he had an initial.
	Lawrence of Arabia.
	Did he go on sort of boy expeditions, do you think, with T.E.
	Lawrence?
	He might have done.
	It's very possible.
	Although, to be fair, T.E.
	Lawrence, when he was captured by the Turks, In World War One, he had his genitals mutilated as part of the torture, so he wasn't actually capable of sex.
	Oh, I didn't know!
	You see, I didn't know that.
	I knew something bad had happened.
	I didn't know what was done to him.
	Was he... he was... Yeah, well, I don't know about chopped off, but it was certainly mutilated, yeah.
	Oh, ouch!
	Poor, poor, poor Lawrence of Arabia.
	It makes your eyes water thinking about it, doesn't it?
	It's more damaging than putting your hand over a candle flame and not minding that it hurts.
	I mean, that really would have hurt.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, yeah, so he had that.
	So, you know, it's questionable whether he actually did the stuff that you just mentioned.
	Is that it?
	Did he bump anyone else off?
	Well, the chances are that he did, because there's a famous quote from General de Gaulle during World War Two, and he was asked by a journalist who said, because he'd got this aversion to flying, de Gaulle, and the journalist asked him why that was.
	And he said simply because people who detest Churchill tend to have accidents.
	Oh, no, I suspect that, you know, then Miller.
	I'm trying to think of famous people who died in plane crashes.
	It was Glenn Miller.
	Maybe he didn't like in the mood.
	Maybe he wasn't in the mood.
	Well, this is extraordinary.
	And you remind me of a very famous thing that Churchill said.
	He said, History will be kind to me.
	I mean to write it myself.
	Yeah, I know this because I mean to write it myself.
	Yes He knew whereof he spoke there now.
	Yes.
	Um, I've got to ask you Before before this period Kitchener Oh Kitchener.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Tell me about Kitchener.
	Yeah Kitchener.
	Well that they hated each other They were both as bad as each other.
	They were both pederasts.
	They were both, you know, into young boys.
	But... They all were, weren't they?
	I mean, Mountbatten... Yeah, they all are, aren't they?
	Rum Sodomy and the Lash.
	That's right, yeah.
	Indeed.
	But yeah, Churchill hated him most of all, though, because of his popularity.
	During World War One, Kitchener was the guy, for those who are not aware, who was on that famous World War One poster where he's pointing his finger and says, your country needs you.
	And he was massively, massively popular.
	The German populace loved him.
	They weren't keen on Churchill.
	Churchill was jealous.
	I mean, there must have been all sorts of other kinds of stuff going on in the background as well.
	But yeah, Churchill wanted rid of him.
	He arranged for him to be murdered on HMS Hampshire, which was a ship that actually allegedly struck a mine in the North Sea and sank with everyone on board, apart from seven or eight survivors who managed to scramble ashore in Norfolk somewhere, but who were immediately shot by the local residents because they thought it was a German invasion.
	How plausible is that?
	But anyway...
	I mean, it must have been fairly thorough to mop up like that.
	Yeah.
	How would they know that?
	I don't know.
	I honestly don't know.
	Survivors were coming ashore.
	Anyway, sorry, carry on.
	So, again, T Stokes was kind of, he knew the people involved in this, so he knows it was true.
	Two of his colleagues were sent on board HMS Hampshire.
	They boarded and they knocked on Kitchener's cabin door.
	And handed him a pistol and said, go back inside your cabin, use this or we will come in and use it for you.
	And then 30 seconds later, they heard a shot and opened the door and there was kitchen and lining, a pool of blood.
	So that mission accomplished, they left the ship and then shortly afterwards, HMS Hampshire allegedly hit a mine and sank.
	But whether that is true or not, your guess is as good as mine, about the Miami.
	Okay, that is extraordinary because it was a very famous incident for obvious reasons.
	The hamsters hitting a mine.
	I was going to say you have to be a psychopath to do this sort of thing.
	He was Kitchener of Khartoum.
	He relieved Khartoum on the Punishment Expedition, isn't he?
	Yes.
	After Gordon was murdered by the Mahdi's people.
	Yes, yes.
	So he was a national hero.
	He was associated with that poster and stuff.
	Yes.
	Well, he must have really pissed Churchill off, too.
	This is when Churchill was first Lord of the Admiralty, is that right?
	Absolutely, yeah, it was.
	And yeah, I mean, Yeah, as well as, you know, I mean, he was responsible for the deaths of thousands of soldiers through his incompetence as well, specifically the Dardanelles, Gallipoli.
	That was an absolute disaster, that campaign.
	And, you know, what we said right at the very beginning about World War Two being a blood sacrifice, I'm absolutely positive that Gallipoli was also a blood sacrifice.
	I mean, the decisions that were made there were just too ridiculous for words, you know, too ridiculous for any person or even It claims partial competence to have made.
	I mean, it was just madness sending those poor kids into that.
	It was just a killing field, basically.
	Can we just briefly, because I'm very struck by the Kitchener story.
	If you'd been in Kitchener's position, wouldn't you have gone, sat there with your... In fact, what I might have done is I would have shot in the ceiling just to make them think I was dead.
	Yeah, when he came and shot them both.
	Yes, but I don't know how many bullets there were in the chamber.
	Maybe there were only one, in which case that would have... Possibly, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I mean, the other thing is, you know, the... yeah, I mean, even if he'd done that, I mean, he still wouldn't have survived, would he?
	Because they'd have got him another way, so maybe... No, but I don't mean... yeah, obviously he was a goner, but at least you'd have taken a few of the bastards with him.
	Yeah, well, I would... that's what I would have done, yes, if I'd had the...
	The full thought to do it, yeah, without a doubt.
	But I suppose when you're confronted with that particular situation, you know, who knows how your mind works.
	Fortunately, I never have been, so I don't know.
	I mean, obviously, I was aware of flaws in his record, as it were.
	So I knew about, I'd read, I mean, I've read Biographies of Churchill, which now, I think, may be haggieographies, because they were just promoting the myth.
	Yes.
	But even reading some of those, he comes across as a bit of a bumptious tosser.
	Oh, yeah.
	He was an alcoholic.
	He took drugs, you know, as well, and, you know, opium.
	What did Clemmie think of all this?
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	That's not something I've even I haven't looked into it at all, James.
	So, what kind of reaction do you get when you go to a village hall and tell people this stuff?
	Yeah, I tend not to talk in village halls.
	But yeah, I know what you're saying.
	Yeah, most people believe it.
	Most people find it plausible, I think is the word.
	It's a little bit different kind of chatting to you about it to actually standing up and doing a presentation where I've got all my facts and figures laid out in front of me.
	You know, it's kind of a bit disjointed what we've done in a sense.
	I mean, that's not to disparage it.
	But, you know, in my PowerPoint presentation, I've got the full, you know, the full dirt, if you like, all in chronological sequence.
	So, yeah.
	But it goes down well.
	You know, most people, I mean, most people in our Kind of sphere.
	Absolutely detest the guy anyway to start with.
	So, you know, it doesn't take that much to kind of reinforce that position really.
	But I thought you said the people that come to see you aren't necessarily in our, they're not already in the rabbit hole.
	Yeah.
	No, no, no.
	No, what I said was, or what I meant to say, and if I was misunderstood, I apologize, was that they're not necessarily John Hamer fans.
	But they tend to be truth seekers.
	Okay.
	Oh, I see.
	Right.
	Obviously, they bring people along who maybe are on the fringes or, you know, or got doubts.
	Or perhaps this whole title is totally new to them.
	But yeah, the majority of people I speak to are already truth seekers.
	You know, it's just kind of... Have you ever met David Irving?
	I've never met him, no.
	No.
	I mean, presumably, all I've read is his introductory essays in one of his books.
	But hasn't he done a biography of Churchill?
	I'm not sure.
	I know he's done a... Oh, yes, he has.
	Isn't it called Churchill's War?
	It wasn't as much a biography.
	I think it was just more about the way, you know, Churchill's actions You know, regarding the war.
	Because he did one, he did a complementary one called Hitler's War as well, didn't he?
	And that's very interesting.
	I've read that one and I've got a lot of information from that.
	But there must be, there must be other historians who've corroborated what you've been saying.
	Oh yeah, there are.
	I mean, the other one, the American one, the American one called, I've forgotten his name now, Anthony Sutton.
	He was a fantastic historian.
	He's done a lot of fantastic work.
	He's more about the economic aspect.
	Surely he doesn't mention Kitchener?
	No, none of that stuff.
	You're right, it is.
	That's just gold.
	It's just extraordinary.
	Do you get accused of being pro-Hitler?
	Absolutely, I get accused of being a Nazi.
	Um, because of my beliefs.
	You don't look like a Nazi.
	Because I don't follow the, uh, I don't toe the whole party line with regard to what happened.
	Um, yeah, I get, yeah, I get, I get accused of all sorts of things, James.
	Thing is, thing is, um, I used to wonder, I used to wonder there's a lot, It was one of my first, you know, like, inklings, my first glimmers of doubt, which was before, when I was still believing in the paradigm.
	I used to wonder why it was that you had to be vetted before you went into the National Archives.
	I was thinking, what possible reason for that?
	This is our archives.
	Yeah.
	It doesn't make sense, does it?
	Well, it doesn't make sense.
	Unless there is a nefarious reason for it.
	Like the 50-year rule and the 100-year rule.
	And again, what possibly could be... yeah.
	Yeah.
	I mean, the only thing is that the people who are the guilty parties won't be around any longer.
	Yes, but I mean, sometimes even, you know, like, well, after 100 years, nobody will be alive.
	But yeah.
	Yeah.
	Well, that's been really interesting.
	John, where can people find your stuff?
	Okay, right.
	Well, my website is falsificationofhistory.co.uk.
	There are lots of articles on there.
	It's not been updated for quite a while, but there are hundreds of articles on there that I've written over the years and decades, including the stuff about Churchill, but obviously not as much detail as we've gone into today, James.
	So that's my website.
	I have a BitChute channel, which again has not been updated for a few weeks, but nevertheless Plenty of good bits of info on there from my work.
	And that is called John Hamer Official.
	Three separate words.
	Obviously I'm an author.
	I've got an Amazon author page where all my books are.
	So if anyone goes to Amazon and keys in my name, John Hamer, you will find my books.
	Bearing in mind that there are also two other authors by exactly the same name.
	And one's even got exactly the same middle name as me, which is absolutely bizarre.
	But, you know, they're not truthers.
	I mean, they just write about all kinds of other stuff.
	I can't remember what it is that they write about.
	So, yeah, you'll see my books there.
	Sorry?
	Boring stuff.
	Yeah, boring stuff.
	Yeah, not like I write about.
	But if anyone wants to buy books directly from me, I come across a lot of people who don't use Amazon on principle.
	If anyone wants to buy books from me directly, then by all means, go on Amazon.
	Look what books you're interested in.
	And drop me an email at jch120752 at gmail.com.
	And I will gladly send you a signed copy.
	Brilliant.
	For exactly the same price.
	um John, it's been great talking to you.
	Just a thank you from my dear viewers and listeners.
	I really appreciate your support on Patreon, Substack, Subscribestar and Locals and you can also buy me a coffee.
	I'm delivering this very quickly so I'm dying for a piss because I've had two cups of tea during the course of this podcast and I'm, you know, I'm... Thanks, John.
	It's been great.
	Very welcome, James.
	Hopefully we can do it again sometime.
	Okay, great.
	Thanks a lot.
	Let's do that.
	Bye.
	Bye-bye.

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