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Jan. 1, 2026 - Jim Bakker Show
28:10
The Jim Bakker Show with Pastor Steve Cioccloanti
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Pastor Steve Cikkolani's Ministry 00:05:35
Pastor Steve Cikkolani is the pastor of Discover Church.
His program look up with Steve Cikolani airs on PTL TV Tuesdays at 10 p.m. and Sundays at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time.
Welcome to the Jim Baker Family Show.
Today, our special guest talks about the four horsemen of the apocalypse, signs, prophecy, and hope.
Our co-host today is Reverend Mondo de la Vega.
And now here is your host, Pastor Ricky Baker.
Hello, friends.
You're watching PTL TV.
This is the Jim Baker family show.
We have Pastor Steve Cicolani with us here today.
And Pastor, I want to say thank you for making it in person.
Come on.
Awesome to be here again.
Originally, your ministry is out of Australia.
You've now based here in the United States of America.
I want to say thank you for making time to come to the Ozarks.
Oh, man.
Beautiful Ozarks.
One of my favorite places.
I'll tell you, so something about the state of Missouri.
I've lived in a few different states, whether it's Texas or Alaska for a few years, Georgia.
Every time I've left the state of Missouri, I've always wanted to come back because I really do feel the presence of the Lord here.
I know a lot of people claim to be, you know, the Bible Belt, but I've always told people Brants in this area really feel as the buckle of the Bible Belt.
You know, we're strong pro-America, strong pro-Christian.
And I really love being here.
So I'm glad that you get to come here and be with us.
You know, traveling to Florida sounds great every once in a while, but I'll tell you right now, I love living in Missouri.
It's my pitch to try to get Steve to move here to Missouri live on television.
So we'll see if it worked here in a few years or not.
So we'll find out if it worked.
It's a nice place.
Tell us about your church.
What's going on?
You said that you now do your live services on Friday nights here in the United States because that is a good time for Australia where a lot of your viewers are.
So kind of give us an overview of your ministry right now.
Well, we have the world's first online church.
So we've been doing that many years before COVID, and we do it on discoverchurch.online.
Yes.
And there's lots of resources, prayer every day, twice a day.
It's going on for, I think, more than a thousand days, many, many years.
We pray for America.
We pray for Donald Trump.
We pray for all of you.
And we are live on Friday evening.
So Friday evening here is Saturday morning in Australia.
Okay, so we're like at opposite ends of the earth.
So that covers pretty much everybody.
Europe, unfortunately, we have to do care group for Europe, but Europe's sleeping during that time.
Oh, yes.
There we go.
Well, they can go watch it on your app.
You have an app and they can watch it video on demand after the fact.
So let's say you filmed it on Friday night and Europe was waking up in the morning the next day.
They would still be able to be a part of the service, just not live.
They would get a bit delayed.
Yeah.
There we go.
I think that's incredible.
You wrote a book, Mondo.
You have it over there.
You actually took my copy.
Listen, I'm already born in my book.
Mondo said, Mondo said, he took it from me.
He asked Steve.
He said, can I have this copy of the book?
There's a book in front of me.
I don't know what he's doing with it.
I'll let you borrow my book.
There, yeah, that's what he is.
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
I want to talk about this.
And you did something for us that is exclusive to the PTL network called a PTL EDU, an educational series that we're doing, where you kind of deep dive into some different topics as well.
And I want to say thank you for that.
Friends, that is going to be live soon, a PTL EDU.
We're going to show you guys what that's all about in the different educational series we're going to do with subject matter experts from around the globe.
But Mondo, how incredible is this new book that Pastor Steve has written?
I know you have this.
You devour it.
We've gotten snippets of it, but this is incredible.
The book of Revelation is one of the most debated books in the Bible.
Then when you go inside of the book of Revelation, chapter six is one of the most dissected books in that book of Revelation.
Anytime, and I'm going to say this publicly, any time there's a biblical prophetic event developing, I look towards what is Pastor Steve Chikalant saying according to what the Bible describes this event to talk about.
Yes.
Because there's a lot of people out there, Pastor Steve, that they're giving their opinion.
I don't mind an opinion, but I want biblical opinion on what the Bible has to say about public figures, what the Bible has to say according to Bible prophecy about world events.
And you have become one of the foremost that I look towards when it comes to that.
And this right here, I can't wait to read this.
I can't wait to dissect this.
I can't wait to give you my opinion.
Give it to me.
That's awesome.
I'm talking about it because I have been studying this book for the last 27 years with Pastor Jim Baker.
Yes.
And there's been a lot of people that come through here with their opinions.
And I respect their opinions, but I can't wait to dive into this book.
Is this available anywhere that people can join us?
Because I want people to order this book.
People need to get educated.
There's so many conflicts.
And Ricky and I were talking about this before the show.
There's a lot of conflicts about the book of Revelation.
And I hope that you help us make sense on the white horse, the black horse, the red horse, the pale horse.
I mean, people even get into arguments.
Is it green?
Is it pale?
Oh, we're in trouble.
Yeah.
I got to say this.
Where did the hunger come from to write this book?
Seven Seals, Three Trumpets 00:15:55
Wow, it's like the call of God is something that just drops on you.
You know, you can't run away from it.
But my life really changed in the course of our ministry change at 9-11.
You know, I haven't forgotten 9-11.
I think a lot of Americans have forgotten 9-11.
And we're 24 years later, and the people who attacked New York and Washington, they've actually successfully put in a Muslim mayor in New York.
And that to me is one of the, I would say that's a turning point.
That's a real turning point.
When I saw that, also a communist, too.
And a communist.
That's right.
So, you know, we're seeing really what could be the downfall of New York City.
And people say, well, you can't say that.
You can't.
Well, absolutely, we can't say it.
We have seen how communist countries have been ran and have failed every single time.
And we thought, yes, this would be great for one of the most powerful cities in the United States of America.
Where's the logic coming from?
That's my question: how are people like this getting enough votes to sit in public office?
It makes you a question.
Has it been rigged?
You know?
Yes.
Okay.
The audience says yes.
We have a great audience here.
Yeah, that's right.
Very forthright audience here.
But, you know, it's like that in Australia.
We are from Australia originally, and we would go out and help Christian candidates, as I think we should.
And we would see that almost nothing that we rally for and protest for and nothing happens because somebody has paid a lot of money for all the ads, for all the vote.
And, you know, the people who count the votes matter a lot.
And there were like funny stuff going on in Australia.
Like, if you have democracy, you have to be able to go and scrutinize an election, but they won't let you in.
So things like that happen.
It's not definitive proof, but it certainly begs a lot of questions.
How do these people that nobody seems to want get in?
That's right.
I want to talk about this, Imonio.
You brought something up very important.
You have truly prophesied over the years, and we wrote down a list of a few of the things that you said would happen, and they actually happened in a very short time period.
We haven't ran this by you, but I just want to tell you.
So Trump's two-time election, you talked about that.
Biden dropping out to the day.
To the day.
We said it on Reddit.
You can go look at the timestamp.
So that's dropping out of the presidential election.
The war in Israel the day before it actually happened.
The fact that there'd be no peace deal in Ukraine, even though everyone was saying that there would be one, and no U.S. dollar collapse until right now.
It's been fascinating to follow everything that you have done.
Like Mono said, when there's a world event, we typically have a few people that we'll go to and say, you know what, let's see what the man of God is saying.
You're one of them.
But it's been incredible.
What is it like to have that relationship with the Lord that he trusts you with this information?
Well, I have to be careful what I say.
I have to be careful what I say.
I have to be careful what I write.
Yeah, because we don't always get it right.
We don't get everything right.
But I try very hard.
If I've put it in print or I put on YouTube, I try very hard to have spent the time with the Lord, to have checked it in the Word of God.
So I try not to guess.
You know, there's a lot of guessing in end time prophecy, and I try not to do that.
That's right.
You know, you wrote this book, Mono.
We're talking about this before.
I'm going to steal Steve's copy now.
This isn't.
We're all passing out books around here.
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
Now, this is actually number one in eschatology on Amazon, which I don't know if you've noticed, but Amazon is now probably the largest book dealer, retailer, whatever, in the world.
You know, we have other places that are specific to books, but Amazon probably sells the most.
So you're the number one in the category of eschatology.
What does that tell you about people's hunger for this?
Well, people want to know.
People want to know.
And interestingly, a lot of the gatekeepers of Christianity don't want to know.
And that's the contrast is a lot of this is driven grassroots.
You know, you matter.
You who are watching, you matter to what's going on in the body of Christ.
Because sometimes you have gatekeepers and then you see the fall of many of the gatekeepers.
You see the judgment on the gatekeepers.
But you matter.
You matter.
And just you simply taking a resource, believing it, sharing it with somebody, that spreads the word of God.
There was no central publishing house for the Apostle Peter.
I sometimes think about that.
Imagine if you're Jeremiah and you got a very unpopular message, right?
You're saying judgment is coming on the people of God.
I mean, that was a very unpopular message.
I said, who was the publishing house for Jeremiah?
And the Lord said, just me.
Just me, me.
That's right.
Amen.
Well, it's incredible to see that.
The message like this needs to get up.
Before we dive too far into this, because I do want to really talk about the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, I want to talk about the other books which you have written.
You have one called Trump's Unfinished Business.
Now, I know there was a campaign for a long time to try after the first presidential election and four-year tensure of Donald Trump to try to get this into his hands.
I don't know if it ever did, but I pray that it got close to him.
It got close to him for sure.
Yeah, it got close to him.
We know that I don't want to name names because then you can.
Yes, but people close to him, you know.
But people close to him, meaning in the cabinet, got the book.
I can say I personally handed a copy to Eric Trump because I was on stage with him three times.
Good.
God's given me favor.
That's pretty much here.
That's pretty close.
Glory to God.
So it did get to a Trump.
Praise God.
And I really hope that they opened that, they read it because it's an incredible book.
Trump's Unfinished Business, 10 Prophecies to Save America.
And then you also have this book, Get Prayers Answered.
Talk to us about this book.
What is this?
Because that's a very bold title.
That's 30 years of answered prayer.
There's nothing theoretical about it.
It's all stuff that actually was prayed and got answered.
Amen.
And the topics are, you know, if you open up to the table of contents, you see some very unusual topics.
Like people don't want to talk about legal battles and lawsuits and preachers.
We're talking about this one right here.
Can I read a few of them?
No, go for it.
So obviously the first one is, you know, how to use this book.
Then we talk about children, church, church growth, deliverance, difficult people.
Difficult people.
Can I keep the book for this?
Yeah, you.
No, I'm just kidding.
That's true.
Evangelism, family, famine, favor, grace, healing, home dedication.
You have lawsuits and legal battles.
Until right now, you have questions, you know, prophets, prayers, temptations, war, warfare, prayers, wisdom, world worship.
This is incredible.
You're covering topics that a lot of people wouldn't even dare to touch.
It's not in your usual prayer book.
So, one of the things you asked me, how do I, you know, spend time with the Lord and how do I put out what I put out?
But one of the things I always say is, I just wait on the Lord and I think, if somebody can do it better than me, it's great.
Then I don't have to do it.
So I often wait for that.
So sometimes I wait.
I waited a long time.
I taught about the four horsemen of the apocalypse for 13 years before I published this.
And I was hearing people taking my teaching and then re-editing it and then using it in their own YouTube.
And then I heard people quoting it and using my image.
The images that we made, like they should be copyrighted, but it's okay.
Never mind.
And I realized, wait, they only have a part of the revelation.
And so I realized, wait, they're going to twist it or they're going to run off with it.
I felt the onus.
I really have to clarify this.
And, you know, 20 chapters of very detailed revelation.
A lot of it's going to be the first time that people have heard it.
Okay.
Can I just jump right into some bold questions as we skim through the book?
Okay.
You know, one of the most fascinating things about this book is the timeline of this book.
I encourage you, please go.
We have an affiliate with Pastor Steve.
Go order this book.
But there's a timeline in here, and I want to just talk about this.
Are you saying that the coming of the Lord could happen in 10 years or the rapture is due in 10 years?
Because there's a timeline in this book.
There is.
I mean, I was bold to put it in the subtitle, The Greatest Warning of the Next 10 Years.
Now, be very clear.
I am not saying the Lord is coming at year 10 or that the rapture is going to happen in 10 years.
What I am saying is very bold, though, is it cannot happen before then.
So this gives us a timeline of what we are to do.
So I know that we all want to escape, we all want to go out, but we have a work to do.
And according to the book of Revelation, there's a sequence of events that must take place.
So when people say something's imminent, it sounds very exciting and it's, you know, it hypes you up.
But there's imminent means.
There are certain events.
No, there has to be.
It's just like the first coming.
There are certain things that must be fulfilled.
So in the same way, before Jesus comes or before the rapture, there are clear events.
And Revelation 6 is one of them.
You know, there's a lot of guests who come on the show.
And sometimes, you know, it depends on the type of interview it is, but we'll throw some softball questions and let them hit it out of the park.
For Steve, I'm not giving you no softball questions.
Okay.
So we're going to go.
This is 100-mile an hour pitch.
I hope you're ready for this.
Like I said, we don't talk about this before the show.
You know, many Christians believe that the four horsemen cannot be riding until the tribulation starts.
That is, you know, the four horsemen kick off the Antichrist or start the tribulation.
But can the seals of Revelation be opened now as we speak?
Well, this, I take, you know, a whole chapter at least to give you seven to eight reasons.
I think I can probably cover a few of those.
We have some time, so yes.
We have some time.
Let's go.
Let's go through it.
Okay.
So I believe that the seals can be open before the tribulation.
Please understand, I am not saying we're living in the tribulation.
I'm saying the seals are pre-tribulation events.
Number one, here's the first reason.
If you look at Jesus' most famous sermon on the end times, which is Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, his pre-tribulation signs match exactly the seals.
Yes.
So why are we calling the seals tribulation events?
When they're pre-tribulation events.
They're pre-tribulation.
All right.
Number one.
So you can go look that up, study it yourself.
But he said in Matthew 24, verse 6, see that you are not troubled, for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
So this is the sign of not the end.
It's the not end time, not tribulation sign.
All right.
Number two, the description of the seals in Revelation 6 match reality.
So I think that's important because sometimes like Jesus is standing right in front of the Pharisees and they're saying the Messiah can't come yet.
Well, wait a second.
You need to accept some reality.
He's here.
He's healing.
You know, but you can have such thick goggles on that something can be happening in front of your eyes and you say, no, it can't.
Because my theology says it can't open until the tribulation starts and the tribulation hasn't started or the antichrist hasn't come.
None of that is a requirement.
The white horse is not the antichrist.
It's an assumption.
So all of these things we live through and we can say, I don't know when it's going to be fulfilled.
It can't be while I'm alive.
Wow.
These are blinders.
Right?
So the white horse is out of the gate.
The red horse came and I predicted and I said publicly, I said to my church, I said, June 2023.
If there's not a conflict with Islam, then the timeline is not right.
At that exact month, there was a humongous ride all across Europe because there was a young man, illegal, criminal, you know, all that.
They don't care about any of that.
But he was driving a truck.
The police tried to stop him.
He wouldn't stop him.
Stop.
So then they shot him.
He died.
And because he's Muslim, there's riots and looting everywhere in the name of Islam.
Exactly June 2023.
So now we're here at the end of 2025.
And I'm saying surprise wars, not peace, is coming because of the timeline.
Let's keep going.
Why else?
The plain text.
Whenever you're confused about something, about the timing, just read the Bible.
Read the plain text.
Here it says at the end of Revelation 6, it says, and the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, slaves and free men, all that will skip all those, said to the mountains and the rocks, fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb.
For the great day of his wrath has come and who is able to stand?
That's verses 15 to 17.
In other words, prior to the opening of the sixth seal, the tribulation had not yet started.
How did we miss that?
How do we say, oh, the opening of the seal signals the wrath.
Wait, he just said not the wrath.
It has not yet come.
Plain scripture.
So that's reason number three.
Reason number four, I'm a bit mathematical about this.
I wrote the book, The Divine Code, so I like math.
I like numbers.
But I didn't ever like the model that has been taught all these years, where the seven, there are three sets of sevens, seven seals, seven trumpets, seven bowls.
And the model that's always been taught, and people walked in the light that they knew, I'm not criticizing, I'm just saying what we all accepted was seven seals and seven trumpets squeezed into three and a half years.
And then the seven bowls, the other three and a half years, and then that makes seven years.
The time of Daniel's 70th week is seven years.
Okay, so a lot of people are expecting that.
I thought, well, how come there's a lack of symmetry?
Why would God squeeze or cram 14 events into three and a half years and then seven events in the last three and a half years?
That's not symmetric.
It's not elegant.
So I start looking at it and I start to realize, wait, actually, the only timeline, God is very specific about time.
And the time, like 42 months, 1,260 days, three and a half years, time times and half a time, these are specified for the tribulation and the great tribulation.
But they're not specified for the pre-trib events.
So you have to pull them out and figure, okay, the seven seals are pre-trib.
How long do they last?
And that's the interesting part about it.
There's a lot of information about time in the Bible.
So that's reason I think that number four already.
So it's much more symmetric to put the seven trumpets and the seven bowls inside of the tribulation.
Leave the seven seals out.
We have to figure out how long they are.
Number four.
Number five.
I think the true meaning of trumpets, the seven trumpets, has been hidden and missed because of English.
If we read that in Hebrew, it doesn't say the seven trumpets.
It says the seven.
Come on.
Shofars.
So the shofars are not symbols of Christianity.
They're Jewish musical instruments.
They're used in the feasts of the Jews.
They're used in calling the Jews to battle.
So that very symbol actually tells you that's the beginning of the time period when God deals with the Jews.
But we didn't catch that because we kept saying seven trumpets, seven seals, seven trumpets.
What if you just said seven shofars?
One more.
This is the big objection is people say, well, Revelation doesn't it say in Revelation chapter 4, come up hither.
And since it says come up hither, that means the church is no longer here.
Well, that's a lot of extrapolation.
Right?
That's a lot of extrapolation because John as a person heard come up hither.
I'm going to show you things to come.
Now you're saying based on those three words, the church has disappeared afterwards.
Well, wait a second.
Let's go there.
Let's say that you were right about that.
And that's what the symbolism is.
Come up hither refers to Christians going up.
Then when does it happen?
Here's something that I think God has preempted and he knew that we're going to make this era, so he preempted it.
Every detail in the Bible matters.
After these things, chapter 4, verse 1, after these things I looked and behold, a door standing open in heaven.
And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me saying, come up here.
Voice Like a Shofar 00:01:34
And I will show you things which must take place after this.
Well, wait a second.
How come there's this curious phrase that Bible teachers have ignored when they're trying to explain the come up hither?
It says, the voice that said this sounded like a shofar.
So if we use the Bible to interpret the Bible, which is the number one rule of Bible interpretation, right?
Let scripture interpret scripture, right?
If we use that, then this trumpet has to be correlated to the first trumpet of Revelation 8, which is the beginning of the time that God deals with the Jews, which then would be the most ideal time.
If you believe, I don't care when you believe the rapture, okay?
I really don't.
I don't want to argue with that.
But if you believe that that's the signal for it, then the church goes up at that time at come up hither, not at Revelation 6.
That is relegated all the way to Revelation 8.
Because he says the voice is like a shofar.
It's an approximation.
So there's some approximations and then there's some precision in the Bible.
Anyway, I've given you five out of eight.
So I hope that you've been chewing on this and you can think about the fact that most of what we've heard is true.
It's correct.
But we need to fine-tune as we're getting closer to the time.
We need to be willing to learn some more.
Four Horsemen Colors 00:03:56
We need to be willing to grow in our knowledge and revelation in the end times.
That's right.
How incredible.
Friends, I want to encourage you, go get this book, The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
What an incredible thing.
The greatest warning of the next 10 years.
Now, another thing, I want to give you your credit where credit is due.
You were actually the first person that out of all the research we've been able to do, were able to put the picture of the colors of the four horsemen of the apocalypse and tie it to the current Islamic state flag.
And now a lot of ministers have done it since then, but out of all the research we've done, you were the first one to do it.
Can you, once again, kind of just briefly explain that to our audience?
I know we have a slideshow that you can kind of show us.
We can bring up the slide.
I'll show you.
So this is what you were mentioning, the book.
Yeah, so you got the four horsemen.
Why these colors?
There's information in these colors.
You look at the main enemy of Israel right now, Palestine.
You see on their flag, what do you see?
That's right.
White, red, black, green.
That's right.
Go down to Jordan, white, red, black, green.
Sudan, white, red, black, green.
Same with Kuwait.
Same with the UAE.
Libya, this is beyond Kuwait.
They all use the same colors.
They all use the same color.
And these colors were selected in the 20th century.
So you can't say somebody put this in the Bible because they knew it anyway.
So they kind of doctored it to make it like it's prophetic.
No, nobody knew it.
Even these countries didn't know it.
Hundreds of years later, if not thousands of years.
2,000 years.
2,000 years.
Afghanistan.
We were embroiled in a conflict in Afghanistan for 20 years.
And we didn't even see that we're part of fulfilling revelation because the colors of the four horsemen are the colors of their flag.
Look at Syria.
Look at Iraq.
We went to two wars in Iraq.
The colors of the flag match the four colors of the four horsemen.
Iran.
And I said Iran is a bit different.
Is that interesting?
It's missing one of the colors.
It's missing one of the four colors.
Black.
Yeah, black.
Because they're different.
Iran is actually different from all those other Arabic nations and it's represented in the color of the flag.
They only have green, white, red, because they are considered to be Shia and not Sunni.
Oh, yes.
So they're distinct.
Even the colors tell you.
It's amazing.
And if people think that, well, you're just pulling colors out of the nation's flags.
No, you look at America.
Does it match the four colors?
No.
I put Ethiopia up there.
It's got yellow, green, red.
India, got Uruguay.
It doesn't match.
We can go down to Russia, doesn't match Thailand, Israel.
None of these colors match.
The main actors of World War III are not going to be European.
This whole European theory is not centered where the Bible is centering.
It's going to be the Middle East.
The main actors of World War III will be in the Middle East.
That's interesting.
Friends, this is day one with Pastor Steve Ciglani.
If you want to know more, tune into day two.
Go to PTL TV.
You can look it up online.
It's PTL.tv if you're using your URL web browser.
If you're going to download the app on an Apple or Android device, just type in PTL TV and you can go watch day one again and you can see day two with Pastor Steve Ciglani.
Pastor Steve, I want to say thank you for joining us.
Friends, we have so much more to talk about tomorrow on the broadcast.
Go and order this book, The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
This is going to bless your life, I promise you.
Until tomorrow with Pastor Steve.
God loves you.
He really does.
Bye-bye for today.
We'll see you tomorrow.
Thank you again, Pastor Steve.
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Seychelles doesn't just filter water.
It's your family's shield against the chemical warfare happening in our water supply.
Seychell Water Filtration.
Now that's good water.
The Jim Baker Family Show has been a voice of truth, preparation, and hope for generations.
And it's only possible because of you.
And when you give, whether it's a one-time gift or a monthly partnership, you're helping us spread the gospel, sound the alarm, and prepare people for what's coming.
Call us today at 1-888-988-1588.
Or visit our website at jimbakershow.com.
You can also scan the QR code at the bottom of your screen.
Call us today at 1-888-988-1588.
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