Send Some Love and Buy Me A Cup Of Joe:
https://www.buymeacoffee.com/jasonbermasShow more ETH - 0x90b9288AF0E40F8C90604460973743dBC91dA680
Watch My Documentaries:
https://rokfin.com/stack/1339/Documentaries--Jason-Bermas
Subscribe on Rokfin
https://rokfin.com/JasonBermas
Subscribe on Rumble
https://rumble.com/c/TheInfoWarrior
Subscribe on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/InfoWarrior
Follow me on X
https://x.com/JasonBermas
PayPal: [email protected]
Patriot TV - https://patriot.tv/bermas/
#BermasBrigade #TruthOverTreason #BreakingNews #InfoWarrior Show less
Hey, everybody, Jason Burmes here, and we've got another great show lined up for you today.
Did another really great panel broadcast on election integrity with Mario Nafal.
Mario actually joined us for a little bit of the broadcast.
Didn't really talk much, but did ask a few questions in regards to this, I guess you would say, whistleblower via the 2020 election.
So it was really interesting.
I can't wait for you to check it out.
Before we get there, I do want to remind everybody to please consider supporting the broadcast.
I need you now more than ever, $5, $10, $15.
It means the world to me.
And as you may know, I am now going down to DC.
I will be hosting the event on September 11th in D.C. You've got Senator Ron Johnson, U.S. Representative Kurt Weldon, Dennis Kucinich, John Keriaku, Clayton Morris, Matt Campbell, Bob McElvane, Richard Gage.
I should read everybody, but we're not going to go down the whole list.
It is a packed event.
If you can make it there, please consider coming into DC.
And I do want to remind everybody that Marigold Resources, if you've got a business, folks, and you're looking to buy or sell that business, my friends over at Marigold might be able to help you out.
So buckle up and get ready to make sense of the madness.
Well, we're live now.
We're live now, Mario.
So I want to welcome everybody.
Thank you all for being here.
We're going to have an excellent conversation today about something that we weren't allowed to talk about previously, and that's election integrity.
Remember that?
Remember, you couldn't ask any questions about the 2020 election.
If you did, you were banned.
You were an election denier.
You were basically the worst person in America.
And we're going to have a great conversation today because joining us today as a special guest is somebody that knows a little bit more about this than most people.
And he's finally not under an NDA anymore and he can tell us some truth about what's going on.
But before we get this kicked off, I want to welcome Mario.
Do you have anything to say here at the beginning?
No, man.
I'm glad.
Thank you for accepting me on your show, David.
It's a pleasure to guest you here.
I appreciate it.
Well, your name's at the top.
So this is always your show.
You see, my, you see, it's the first time I got this ball, by the way.
It's the first time I'm talking about it.
I think you look great, by the way.
I was going to say it, but I didn't know if you were unveiled.
I didn't know if it was going to be in a press release or something.
All the guys.
I don't want to be out there.
There you go, me, how there you go.
But like, yeah, I'm risking my girlfriend breaking up with me today, but we'll see.
Oh, well, you know, you tell her you're a big, big deal on X so that she won't pick up again.
We'll see how that goes.
That's why, why, why it happened.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I think there's a lot of reasons.
Why White Hat Turned Bad00:15:14
Like 18 countries she can't travel to.
She's not allowed to say she knows me.
You know, just no big deal.
Just, you know, the risk of prison.
It's fine.
It's worth it.
Let's get this kicked off right away, right out the gate.
David, she went to me two weeks ago.
She said, Mario, I want to go to Brazil next Alex Holiday.
I want to go to Brazil.
Oh, good luck.
Let me tell you something about Brazil.
The son of the former president told me, Mario, if you go, that was two weeks, a week ago, if you go, you'll be arrested at the airport.
So we're not going to go to Brazil.
Yeah, I don't think you should go to Brazil.
That's probably not high on the list of places you should go.
Hey, you know, maybe she'll get to go to the beach while you're sitting in jail.
All right.
We got the haircut now, at least.
So let's move forward and talk about the 2020 election.
Because look, I know a lot of people are, or some people might be thinking, oh, it was years ago.
We have a lot of information coming out just about the 2016 election, going back to Crosswire Hurricane.
We've been reporting a lot on Mario's accounts about all the news that's coming out about Obama's efforts to interfere at least with the election narrative and influence that election.
Then we go to 2020.
The headline out of the 2020 election was, hey, something was weird.
There was a pandemic, a lot of mail-in ballots on election night.
Trump seemed ahead in literally every single swing state.
They stopped counting ballots.
Never happened before.
Every single swing state, they stopped counting ballots.
When ballots resumed counting, the, I guess, Democrats were ahead all of a sudden.
Yeah, well, by a huge number, like it spiked straight up.
And in the end of the day, Biden ended up with somewhere around 11 million more votes than Donald Trump.
But the interesting part about that, and I'm sure Jason has a graphic for this, the interesting part about that is that in every election that we've had in histories, going back to Obama, Obama was, I think he got somewhere around 63 million votes.
Hillary Clinton got somewhere around 65 million votes, I think, in the 2016 election.
Trump got 72 million give or take, I think, in 2020.
And I think he got 74 million in 2024.
But Joe Biden, the most popular president in American history, by far, nobody has ever been more popular than Joe Biden.
He got over 80 million votes, guys.
You believe this?
Over 80 million.
And suddenly, in the 2024 election, all those votes disappeared.
Those votes didn't exist before the 2020 election.
All those votes vanished.
Democrats pointed it out on election night to say, hey, what happened to those 13 million votes?
Republicans must be cheating.
And everyone goes, oh, we should have said that out loud because votes are missing.
Now, fast forward, maybe we'll learn someday what actually happened in 2020.
There was, of course, January 6th, shut down that conversation completely.
And if you said anything questioning the election, you were an insurrectionist, election denier, bad guy terrorist.
You deserve to go to jail.
Now, we're joined by Mihao.
And you have worked very closely in this space.
And I would like you to tell me a little bit about what you learned.
You were, I guess, a white hat hacker, a good guy hacker.
And you were auditing voting machines going way back.
And you've learned some things.
And so let's talk about how you got started, what a white hat hacker does.
And tell me what happened in 2020 when you were brought in to validate some fraud claims.
And we'll take the conversation from there, my friend.
Welcome.
All right.
Thanks.
Thanks for having me, David, Mario.
So yeah, white hat hackers, we're employed by the good guys generally to fix their own software.
So somebody will hire me and say, hey, hack, hack this software.
But what they'll do is they'll give me the source code.
So I can do it way faster than what you would call a black hat hacker.
So a black hat hacker has the binary, meaning they have like the executable.
They don't have the source code.
So they have to do all this sort of different kind of testing that takes way longer and finds way less results.
For me, you know, my sort of claim to fame in elections is I was the first white hat hacker that had access to source code as a third party for voting machines in 2005.
So there was an audit at ESNS Voting in Nebraska and Omaha, and they locked me in a room for a week and said, you know, audit this ivotronic and tell us the results.
And I'll, you know, later on, I'll tell you what the results were, but there was quite a bit of controversy there.
But I'm going to fast forward to 2020.
That's why I was involved in 2020.
I'm a cryptographer, you know, computer scientist, and I've been building software my whole life, doing white hat hacking my whole life.
I built an Intel system for the U.S. Navy back in the 2000s.
It's how I got started.
My first three companies all got sold.
So then after that, I stopped working for other people and just started working for myself.
But my mission in life is to make stuff super secure.
Like that's my passion.
That's what makes me happy.
Like I want stuff super freaking secure and easy to use.
So, you know, come the election 2020.
And I know how the machines are broken because I've known for, you know, 15 years at this point, right?
Since 2005.
And I'm like, oh man, it's going to be a bulletbath.
It's going to be ugly.
There's going to be all sorts of controversy.
There's going to be drama left, right, forwards and backwards because of what can happen.
So ultimately, I got hired by Stephanie Lambert and Sidney Powell to work on the Antrim County vote flip, right?
So there was a case where there was a voter who wasn't happy with the vote flip, right?
Because what happened in Antrim County is that all of a sudden, you know, Biden's ahead and the next day, Trump's ahead, you know, like there's this flip.
And everybody's like, how is this even possible?
Like, how can you have a flip like this?
Like, you know, what's going on?
So that started a lawsuit.
And I was one of the forensics experts there.
So I can dive right kind of like into the, I'll go straight into the alpha.
And you guys just stop me because I've been waiting to tell this story for a while.
Well, this is a great story.
We need to hear it.
And you're letting the background know, you're laying the foundation of why this is credible, what you're about to say, because everyone's just going to call you names after this.
Don't worry.
Yeah, I'm cool with it.
You know, I got, I got, my last name is Paul Spijzzalski in middle school.
I was on the bus and I got Poopy Schutzki as an immigrant straight from Poland.
And the reason, you know, so the funny story is I escaped communist Poland with my parents, right?
So like, like we were essentially refugees.
I'm an immigrant and I was escaping communism.
But the communism we had in Poland in, you know, circa 1982 was, you know, tanks on the street, breadlines, that sort of thing.
So I know where the communism ends.
And, you know, so I'm definitely 100% pro-freedom.
So let's jump into what happened with me in 2020.
So I get in there and I start working with Doug Logan, who has also worked at a place called Sigital, which this was like a foundational sort of company that essentially invented the software security space.
He worked there after I left, but we were both, you know, so I was familiar with his background as like a really good software security guy.
And, you know, the first thing I was asked to verify was just all the conspiracy theories.
Hey, you know, is there a Dominion iVotronic, you know, back door, you know, sorry, is there a smart mat backdoor to Dominion?
Can you just flip the vote with some sort of code?
And, you know, we have access to the binaries.
We did our analysis and we found really none of that at all.
There was no evidence whatsoever of vote flipping or machine manipulation of any kind.
The error that happened in Antrim County was not, it wasn't bad actor.
It was just bad software misconfigured, right?
So basically the way the machine works is like the ballots go into the ballot tabulator and the ballot tabulator is like, okay, Trump is serial number 001 and Biden's serial number 002.
And they have that backwards in the ballot definition.
So like one got counted instead of the other.
When you actually did the correct definition and you reran the ballots, which was exactly what they did, voila, the thing was fixed, right?
Like the count came up correct.
So that's what that's what happened.
Now, you might be wondering, like, how is that even possible?
Like, what's the problem?
Well, the problem is the software should be able to detect that in the first place, right?
And there is an actual attack, right?
So the first thing is I was asked to do is like, and this is really crazy is I completely, as the only forensics guy on that team, I completely debunked all the crazed conspiracy theories.
So the Chinese are remotely controlling the satellites, the this, the, that, like everything that you heard, you know, essentially Sidney Powell say about like this.
There was all sorts of electronic manipulation, all the claims she made that I was the one like telling everybody, like, guys, don't say this stuff because it's not true.
There is something else there, right?
And the big shocker to me was how I was ignored.
And the real story, which I'm about to tell you what I can, was ignored because there is a way to cheat with the machines.
It's just not in the way anybody imagined.
And certainly not in the way everybody was saying.
Right.
So, like, you know, at one point, Stephanie Lambert called me up and she said, Hey, Mihao, we're doing a secret op.
We found some guys, you know, in like Ukraine or something, somewhere in Eastern Europe.
And they claim that they wrote the back door to the Dominion software.
And I'm like, Stephanie, I have the Dominion software.
There is no back door.
Like, if there was a back door, believe me, I would find it.
It does not exist.
She's like, well, no, still, we're going to go save these guys.
We're going to go grab them from Europe, bring them over to them so they can testify in Antrim County.
And I'm just like, no, no, this will be bad.
This is going to end badly.
This is not true.
Right.
So the first thing I want to point out is there was all this conspiracy theorizing that was completely not true.
And I can like go through line by line, debunk all of them, but I'm trying to kind of give you the summary.
And that took away from the real message.
The real message is there is a way to cheat.
We found some evidence potentially of it there in Antrim County.
Now, Antrim County is not a great target, but what I'm about to explain to you, which is the real vulnerability and how you would really cheat, that may have happened to the tunes of 50,000, 100,000 ballots elsewhere.
But because my story, my own forensics were suppressed and not taken elsewhere, like we never found out where the real cheating was, right?
So let me explain to you how somebody would really cheat.
And they can still do this today and they can do it in 24, 26, 28, all the elections.
They can just cheat.
So, first of all, we know some cheating definitely did happen.
There was media suppression of the hide and buying lineup story.
There was a ton of ballot boxes in certain places, not others, right?
So Zuckerbucks paid for that.
But I'm not going to talk about those.
I'm going to talk about what you can do technically with the machines and how to fix it.
So I'm going to give you a sample election, right?
Say we have a small precinct that's got 20,000 voters, right?
So 20,000 total.
And we're going to split them in three groups.
One is the one-third of people that showed up to vote in person, right?
So that'll be 6,000 something, right?
Then another set of people that were sent mail-in ballots, another, say, 6,000 something.
Another people that had no intention to vote ever, the last 6,000 something, right?
It's the last third.
And so normally in a normal election, those buckets are more like 80% is in person and then another 20% is mail-in.
And then, you know, probably half the people on top of that don't vote, right?
So actual numbers are like 40, 10, 50, something like that, right?
So usually the OPSEC that you have around in-person voting, that tends to work fine, which is why we didn't see this in 2016.
We didn't see it in 2012.
There wasn't this, at least from me, there wasn't a big concern that this was happening.
But what is the attack?
Well, the ballot scanners themselves, they're completely dumb.
Like I said, they just scan a thing, a piece of paper, and say, okay, plus one for a serial number 001.
That's all they do.
Like that's the, I mean, it's a little more sophisticated than that, but that's the basic math behind it in the basic science.
So if you can take a ballot, say, you know, 10 ballots that you like and you just run them through 10 times and it'll just count, okay, this plus 10 for 001.
If you have a ballot you really like, you want to run it through 100 times, okay, you can do that.
Like all those little barcodes that you see on the thing, that's not serialization of the ballot.
That's anonymizing it.
It's nothing cryptographic.
You can just sit there and just run more ballots.
Okay.
Now, this gets really interesting when there's a million mail-in ballots out there.
So let's run a normal election, right?
Normal election, you've got a few people that are doing mail-in votes, and the election office knows how many mail-in votes there are because those people requested mail-in ballots, right?
So like, you know, say 100 mail-in ballots went out in a super small precinct and 200 came back.
Then you're like, okay, somebody's cheating, right?
Typically, it would be like 100 went out and 50 came back, right?
Or 20 came back.
But say now come 2020 and you've got humongous precincts, right?
And all of a sudden, everybody gets a mail-in ballot.
You didn't ask for it.
You just got sent to you, you know, 100,000 mail-in ballots out there, right?
So, you know, a few, like a bunch of them come back.
How do you know that those voters are real?
And the answer is you don't.
Because somebody can be sitting in the back room with the voting machine going like, oh, look, there is 50,000 mail-in ballots that are supposed to come in.
And we've only counted 10, but in this precinct, we'd like 10,000 more for Biden or for Trump or for whoever.
Then a election worker that's got access can sit there, open up a ballot scanner and just start.
It's like sliding in ballots.
Isn't that like the risk of any election, like anywhere all around the world, that somebody at a local precinct commits fraud?
Correct.
Yes.
And so, but yeah, in 2020, the issue was that there is a check for this, right?
So the check is you can't have more mail-in ballots than you sent out.
So typically the mail-in ballots are very, very small because they're requested by the voters, right?
But in 2020, the entire precinct, the entire county, everybody got a mail-in ballot.
So now to cheat as a insider, all you have to do is slide in more ballots and then check off more voters, right?
So, you know, example, say you've got 50,000 mail-in ballots got sent out.
10,000 were real votes.
They came in.
Now you're trying to cheat and you wanted 2,000 more votes.
So what do you do as the election worker?
You run 2,000 more ballots that you like, which you can pick any of them.
And then you go into the voter registration side and just say, okay, these 2,000 more people voted.
Right.
And the reason you can do that is the systems aren't linked and they're controlled by administrators.
So like the ballot system, the thing that counts the ballots, the ballot tabulators have no relationship to the voter registration system.
They're actually separate systems.
So like when a voter would, you know, when a vote poll worker would process a mail-in ballot, they would like open up the ballot, see like, okay, Joe so-and-so, this is their, you know, voter registration information.
Don't they use that to cross-check, you know, the lists to separate and then they do a cross-check to make sure that they don't have, you know, mail-in ballots they shouldn't have.
Ballot Security Challenges00:06:16
I mean, they have pretty rigorous scans here in Florida.
They have barcodes that scan your mail-in ballot.
They have the signature matching requirement.
Yes.
It's a lot of work to validate a mail ballot compared to something that's just been scanned through the system like that one.
Yeah, but the cheater is not going to be using that system.
Right.
But I mean, like, for example, here in Florida, all those scanners that you're talking about are literally sitting inside of the voting area.
And somebody gets- In person, very difficult to do.
This is why I like in-person elections.
In 2020, that wasn't the case.
You had this done in the back room, right?
Now, remember, this is like the criminal with the guns not paying attention to the gun laws.
The criminal with the voting machine is not going to go follow the process.
They're just going to inject more ballots.
I wanted to talk with you about that because I've been reporting on Stephanie Lambert and her journey through the process actually for several years now.
And Sidney Powell dating back to like 2021.
So I don't know if you're familiar, but I did a series of reports on Sidney Powell's defending the Republic.
And she kind of like got fined by the state of Florida for making false statements and all sorts of things because she just wasn't complying very well.
She seemed to think I was like her outsourced compliance department there for a little bit.
Well, I was her, not outsourced.
I was her insource compliance department and she wasn't listening.
Well, Stephanie was definitely not listening to me.
Like, let's put it that way.
And so Stephanie was working with this county in Pennsylvania that's called Fulton County.
It's a very small county in Pennsylvania, not the big Fulton County in Georgia where all the indictments happened, right?
Yes.
But yeah, so they just got fined over a million dollars for contempt of court for all of the unauthorized access they gave to their voting machines.
And the same person that they wound up, like they worked with you, but they actually worked with a lot of people.
And are you guys familiar with Yakov Applebaum?
He's an Israeli-born cybersecurity expert.
No.
He was the first guy to copy Hunter Biden's laptop, for example.
And he works with the Gateway pundit.
And Stephanie Lambert and her benefactor, this guy, Bill Bachenberg, who is now the president of the NRA and a big wig in Pennsylvania politics.
He lives just outside of Allentown.
He bankrolled her.
He paid Sydney, right?
And he hired this fellow, Applebaum, to review Antrim, a couple of other counties from Michigan, and Fulton County, Pennsylvania's machines, right?
And so Yakov did this and they contracted him for half a million dollars to do it.
And he came back with the exact same result you came back with.
No back doors, no technical faults, right?
And then because of the report that he gave, they refused to pay him.
And he filed suit, and that suit was just resolved in favor of the technical expert about two months ago, a month and a half ago, two months ago.
Yeah.
But Stephanie is still being sued by him.
Hey, Grant.
Hey, Grant, your audio is really low compared to everybody else's.
If you could turn that up, I'm having trouble hearing you.
Sure, I will turn it.
I will say that if somebody got a half a million dollar contract, I was working mostly for free.
I think I got 15K.
No, I'm sure I got a 15K.
So for months and months of forensics working.
If I may, if I may, because look, I don't want to get too bothered.
I want people who are watching to understand what we're talking about.
So if I can bring it back to the surface level.
So essentially, Meow, you were hired to ensure or at least audit the systems.
And was that in light of the fraud claims in 2020?
Yes.
Right.
So you were brought in.
And so you were hired by, were these administration people?
So these were people.
So these were people that were hired by the administration or essentially working on behalf of the administration or the campaign.
And you were working on behalf of those people.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
And they did a big, huge disservice to the campaign because let me tell you how you would catch the cheating and what we actually found.
And that's what I want to know.
Right.
So what did you find?
Because that's what people want to know.
Was there fraud?
Can I just clarify something?
Because I'm not quite sure.
You said you were hired by the campaign, but it was Dominion that gave you the source code themselves.
No, we didn't have.
No.
ESNS gave me the source code in 2005.
In 2020, I only had binary.
So I was handed images by Stephanie.
Okay.
And where did she get those images?
She got them.
Well, actually, I don't know where she got them because she didn't tell me, but Solvin Strickler was named, right?
So he was one of the people that was doing the forensics, right?
So I didn't get into the machines myself.
Like I didn't touch any machines.
And I did ask her.
I was like, hey, is all this legit?
And she was like, yeah.
I mean, some of it was.
Some of it was.
And just so the audience understands it appeared to be okay.
And just so the audience understands, so Sidney Powell, and if you remember, her name was probably made, if you're not in the know, like her name was familiar to a lot of people from Fulton County.
I think she believes she was one of the people that were named with the now sort of, I guess, I don't know what the status of it is anymore, but the Fannie Willis case in Fulton County against Trump, where they talked about RICO and conspiracy.
Sydney Powell's, I think, was she one of the people named in that as Trump's attorney.
Pled guilty.
She pled guilty to multiple charges and wrote a handwritten apology letter.
Right.
Okay.
So, and that's who you were working for.
Well, let me let me clarify because I can just tell you exactly what happened.
I got a contract from Sidney Powell.
I never talked to Sidney Powell.
Got it.
I only dealt with Stephanie Lambert.
The contract that I got, I still honored, even though they never signed it.
So, like, I signed it.
They didn't sign it, which was interesting, right?
Got it.
So, you were working on an unsigned contract to audit this one particular place to look for fraud.
And what you found was different than what they thought you were going to find.
Correct.
Those are the findings that we're going to hear about right now.
Exactly.
Okay.
Please proceed.
So, the ultimate story is ballot injection is what I just described.
Ballot Injectionulnerabilities00:07:55
This ability that if you have admin access to both the registration system and the ballots, you can essentially inject ballots and just add more votes to somebody.
And the only way that would be caught is if you were caught physically in the act or there was a recount where like the exact voter registration records, you know, everybody's signature was compared to the vote.
So it's very difficult to catch because it would just require office manual work.
And as far as I know, this didn't really happen.
The statistical audits for these things wouldn't catch that.
The statistical audits are just like looking at the end results and saying, hey, like, hey, you know, is this roughly correct?
So let me, I'm going to pause you for, I'm going to continue.
I want to make sure I extract the point you're making.
Yeah.
So what you're saying is if you were an administrator on one of these voting machines, the way you audit the machines is you check to see, you know, if the votes were counted according to the way they were logged and all that, but you can add actually add votes to the machine that could later be voted.
So it wouldn't be a mismatch on the number of votes versus the number that should be in there.
So what you do is you basically create the ability to add votes to a machine and nobody would know.
Correct.
But in order to do that, you would have to at least have some understanding about what the voter registration numbers were in that precinct.
So you can add enough votes to get.
So let's say 100,000 people were going to show up.
Or they'll say there's 100,000 people in the precinct.
And you know, there's 100,000 people in the precinct.
Let's say that day 80,000 people or that election, 80,000 voted, but you know that there was another 20,000 people that could have voted.
And because everybody got a mail-in ballot, there was no way to go, well, these people didn't request ballots.
So how come they haven't?
So what the people did was they took the number and said, we can fill this thing up fuller by just adding votes to it.
And then we can vote them however they want based on the fact that everybody had a ballot.
So it would be easy to argue that all these people could have voted.
And so while turnout was much higher and more votes were counted, that would be explainable because more ballots were sent out.
Therefore, more people had the opportunity to vote.
And people who were working in these precincts that were admin, if they had that knowledge and they were smart enough, they can essentially create enough votes to fill up the amount of voters that could potentially have voted, whether or not they voted.
David Polak for election forensics attorney.
Right.
Absolutely freaking lootly.
All right.
So you just completely restated exactly what I said.
But me, how?
Yeah.
You had no evidence of that taking place, right?
Well, no, I'm getting to that.
Okay, let's get to that because that is very interesting to start there.
So, okay.
So if you were to cheat, how would you cheat?
Would you like go bother?
Like, if you know there's not really going to be a recount, right?
And you're just going to try to wing it and you want to cheat as fast as possible.
What you're going to do is you're going to look at a ballot that you like and you're just going to run that one 10 more times per David's great explanation and mine, but I love that summary.
That was awesome.
And then you're going to, you're going to say, I explain things to people.
That's what I do.
And then you're going to go in the voter registration system because remember, you're the evil poll worker.
Right.
And now you're going to check off 10 more people.
And then if one of those people, you know, their ballot comes in after this, they might be like, they might get a rejection.
The rejection might say.
And that was happening.
People vote.
People reported this in Maricopa County.
A lot of people said they would show up and they were told they already voted.
And they're like, I didn't already vote.
That caused some of those places to be held open later for some of these provisional ballots to come in.
And then those provisional ballots had to be sorted out.
But think about how many people didn't show up that were voted.
And to get back to your point, I want to remind people what happened on election night.
There were people showing up to vote and they were told they already voted.
And they go, I didn't vote.
Then there were people who were saying that, well, actually, forget that part.
But yeah, the people showed up and said they already voted.
But then later on, after the vote was coming in and it showed Donald Trump was winning, swing states stopped counting votes.
And then, arguably, using your theory, somebody could say, well, how many votes do we still have out there?
People can't physically show up anymore.
The polls are closed.
So now they actually know how many votes they need and how many votes are available.
You could shut down for a couple of hours, vote these things a thousand couple times and then reopen.
And then when the results come in, you're like, oh, cool, we filled the gap.
And that's how this could happen, right?
Well, David, that's it.
That's exactly how it could happen.
Now, the big question is, did it happen, right?
And that's what I want to know.
So your evidence, did it show that this happened?
I'm going to let Grant, because I see Grant like shaking his head and stuff.
Grant, go ahead, and then we'll go back to me.
I feel like we're whistling past the graveyard here.
Mihao came to the same conclusion as the other independent technical experts that the machines themselves.
No, he didn't.
He's about to tell us what his evidence was.
So you almost said Grant from County.
You didn't detect any backdoors or any problems inside.
There was no backdoors.
What he said was the voting system is 100% hermetically secure, right?
That's not what he said.
So we'll get to that.
Yeah.
You're saying it could be.
But what you did say earlier is that there was no tampering.
There was no backdoor.
There was no evidence of electronic manipulation of the antrim systems, which were, like I said, reviewed by Jacob Applebaum, an independent third party who came to the same conclusion.
If I may, what I'm going to keep in mind here.
But yeah, I understand that.
Perspective hacks, potential, things that could be done, but you don't have direct evidence that those things are.
Well, that's what we're about to get to.
We're getting to that.
But this is Grant, if I may.
What he said was there was no back doors.
You don't need backdoors.
He said, you don't need foreign hackers.
All you need is somebody who has admin access to a machine to know how many people haven't voted and know how many votes you need.
And that's the evidence that hopefully I'm about to hear.
And that's called ballot injection, right?
Correct.
So tell me about ballot injection.
And did you find evidence of this?
Can I just jump in quick?
Because I want to clarify something because I keep hearing about two different people looking at this evidence.
You've already said that you didn't get the source code from Dominion, right?
So what you're looking at, it is not like the first-hand material.
I would assume this other gentleman that you're talking about is looking at the same information.
Just color me skeptical, okay, that if you don't have that source code, you're kind of taking a leap of faith on what you're finding, whether or not, and I'm not accusing anybody of having a back door, but you don't have direct access or never did to what was actually used, do you?
I have access to the binaries.
When the binaries are written in Microsoft.net, you can just reverse compile them into the source code.
But what you're saying isn't anybody that had access to like, when you say the binaries, basically the EXC file, like you said, the executable.
Okay.
So that has to be deconstructed.
And as you said, you're not necessarily going to, I'm not saying you're not great at your job, man, but you're not necessarily going to find everything because you don't have the source code yourself, correct?
It's possible to miss stuff in black hat analysis always, right?
So I want to clear up Dominion is that there isn't anything there, and we know that at this point.
But why do we know that if we don't have the actual source code?
He just said it.
He reverse engineered it.
I understand that, but he also just said that.
But he also just said he did miss that.
I'll answer the question.
Yeah.
At DEF CON, you know, everybody.
I'm very well aware.
Yep.
15 years, people have been reverse engineering Dominion and everybody else is voting.
Dybold all of them.
Yeah.
So we, as elections or forensics community, we know what's wrong with the machines.
And yes, you can do electronic manipulation, but not in the ways that were being described by the, you know. by the Sydney Powell or Stephanie Lambert service.
So the specific statements they were making were largely false.
But what we do all know is that ballot injection is possible because you don't need to like the machine's actually operating as intended to do ballot injection.
Voting Machine Integrity00:14:44
You're just abusing your admin privileges as an election worker to make that happen.
Right.
And that's exactly what David pointed out.
So how would that happen?
If that were to happen, how would you detect it?
Well, you know, one way would be to like completely recount all the paper everywhere, which is, like I said, never really happened.
So we don't know.
But the other way you would be able to detect it is typically the cheater would be lazy.
The cheater would just take a ballot and like, see, oh, this is a ballot for Trump or whoever.
Now, I'm Republican, but I'm not partisan.
I want the machines to just work infallibly.
Like that's my mission in life, right?
So if I want to cheat, I'll take whatever ballot I like, you know, Republican, Democrat, and I'll just run it through 100 more times.
And the machine will be like, yep, all good.
You know, if I want to be a little more sophisticated with the cheating, I'll go fill out 100 more ballots.
That way it'll pass an actual paper recount as well.
Right.
But if there isn't the paper recount, you don't even need to do that.
But if you're being lazy like that, you're typically what you're going to see is you're going to see the same ballot over and over and over and over and over again.
So, you know, what I saw, so I wrote a scanner.
I literally just wrote the scanner that was like looking for these ballots that were like, you know, so imagine you have a ballot.
A lot of these ballots, they have like 40 different choices, right?
They're not just like Donald Trump or Joe Biden.
They're like, you know, the entire school board and the mayor and whoever else is on that ballot.
So when you have that many choices and you rerun the same ballot and you see the same result like in sequence, like straight in the stream from the ballot scanner, you're like, this doesn't look right.
This should be investigated.
And I did find evidence of that.
And then I was asked to delete the evidence, which I did because by contract, which again, they didn't sign, but I play by the rules.
I was like, hey, Stephanie, over here, it looks like we have actual ballot injection.
We've got a precinct where there is this 42-choice ballot.
And man, there is a, it's like the same ballot over and again.
And it, it's now, could that be true?
You know, I don't know because we'd have to go there and investigate and we have to do statistical analysis.
Right now.
Why am I not like this real quick?
Yeah.
Some states allow party line vote.
Was this a state that had a party line voting option?
I don't recall.
Now, it's possible that that's the case, but I don't believe so.
Right.
Because I mean, that's the thing.
A lot of places have like a party line vote option where you just, you know, check a box and you vote everybody in that party.
Yep.
So there's, there's a lot of different ways that ballots are presented to voters, and that's just one of them.
And there's a lot of things you have to check when you're talking about what you're talking about, Miha, where you're saying that.
Well, we could make it really simple.
So you don't have to check anything, but I'll get to that in a second.
But so the point is that if you're an attacker, are you going to really cheat in Antrim County?
Like what I found was maybe evidence of a small cheat in a particular precinct, but you're not going to go to Antrim County and be like, I'm going to flip the election in Antrim County because it's a reliably like Republican county and it's very, very small.
It's not going to change like a state outcome, right?
But why did they pick that county then for you to audit?
Well, there was a tabulation error, right?
Because there was a tabulation error there.
And they had, that was the one county where it wasn't really a gray era.
There was an actual lawsuit.
We actually had, you know, this legal mandate to do this work.
And, you know, we did the work.
And it was interesting from to me from a science point of view.
But what I pointed out to Stephanie is like, and Doug Logan is like, guys, this, you know, it's cool that we can now detect it.
We have a tool here that detects it.
Now we need to take this tool to the places that like really flipped, like Fulton County, Georgia and Detroit and Maricopa and then rerun the scanner.
Right.
And that's what never happened.
And that's how if there was cheating on the digital side, that's the cheating that happened.
And that's the story that was never told that I'm telling you now, which David summarized excellently.
So was there cheating in 2020?
I don't know because I wasn't allowed to finish the work because I was arguing with my attorneys and then like what I was saying, which I was saying is like, look, basically, you guys are full of, I'm not going to swear.
But it was really frustrating because I'm like, there's a there.
Like, first of all, the machines are mathematically not reliable.
They, there is a real argument to be made whether they should pass certification or not.
That's why the vote flip happened.
And everybody sort of glazed that over because, you know, the narrative was like, hey, we want to raise all this money by spouting all these conspiracy theories.
And I can tell you that most of that, well, none of that money really went to the forensics team, at least not to me.
But that aside, I would do it all for free if we could actually do it right.
Meaning if we could do this analysis other places.
So let's fast forward a little bit because I do want to get to the solution.
But did you find, and I know it was just a small sample, but can you suggest that based on what you found, not so much a backdoor, not so much, you know, some of the some of the fraud that people thought might have happened?
Because look, nobody, let me say it like this.
If you're like going to commit voting fraud, you're going to have a fund of knowledge about voting fraud.
You're going to think, okay, somebody stole a mail-in ballot or somebody got mail-in ballot or they ballot harvested.
They're not going to think like, oh, here's ballot insert.
Nobody's going to know what ballot insertion is.
So you were hired because poll worker, but not normal people who would say, what happened in that election?
They would look for the traditional ways of cheating.
Correct.
Yeah.
So let me ask you this.
Based on what you found in that one county and then based on what you observed nationally, do you feel like there was ballot insertion happening at a much larger level?
And has anybody looked into this?
As far as I know, no.
No one's looked into it.
Do I feel it happened personally?
Yes.
Do I have evidence that it happened anywhere than the one little place in Antrim County?
Maybe.
I don't have any of that evidence because I wasn't part of any of those things.
And I know for sure that, you know, I encourage the software, like the software that I created was given to my attorneys.
They could have used it other places, but essentially, you know, we kind of had a falling out because I was like, look, you guys, you know, if they put me up on the stand in the case, I'd be like, yeah, my attorney is full of shit.
And that's not useful for them, obviously.
But what was bizarre to me is like, guys, there is a there here.
There is a real story.
We got a real story to tell.
And you're not telling it.
You're telling this nonsense instead.
And so to me, that was super frustrating because the fix for this, the fix for this is we just add some cryptographic proofs to the ballot, then anonymize the ballot, then essentially create a third digital account.
And then that will automatically detect the overvoting and the undervoting.
And all that has to happen is a software upgrade to the existing machines.
You don't have to change the process or anything.
It doesn't have to be like this super crazy, you know, different sort of voting setup.
Like the sort of problem with the cryptographically perfect voting setups is that no one ever wants to use them because they're like really hard to use and really hard to understand.
But what we can do with the American Fortress Tech, which is MatterFi, my company, and I actually wrote a patent on this, it doesn't have to be our tech at all.
It can be, you know, there's many ways to do this.
What I'm saying is you could fix the voting so a ballot injection is no longer possible at all, that the voter at the end knows that their vote was counted.
There is an option where, you know, like we could enable them to see what their vote is now.
Then you have this question of whether they will vote sell or not.
We can also make ZK proofs to make it so that they can't see how they voted, but they know that their vote was counted correctly and that there is no ability to ballot inject at all, whether you're doing in-person or mail-in, right?
So that's the thing that I'm really interested in pursuing with the manufacturers to get that extra level of what we call end-to-end cryptographic proofs that don't exist in the voting machines, which is what I found in 2005.
Because when you don't have that end-to-end cryptographic proof, the scanner is just a dummy and it'll just sit there and let you count more votes.
And I'm like, well, this is an obvious vulnerability.
It's like I have a dollar scanner thing and I can pretend I have $10,000 by scanning a buck, you know, 10,000 times, right?
But in the end, in the voting, that counts as real currency, even though there was only $1 there in the first place, right?
So, but in off-chain cryptography, we don't have that.
And that's different than crypto.
Like my current project is very cryptographically focused as on blockchain, but you don't need blockchain to do this fix.
But anyway, it seems like I'm stirred out the pot.
So I'm going to let the panel here, you know, pummel me a little bit.
And I think that's cool.
And let's have some back and forth.
Let's do it.
That's the story I wanted to tell.
Cool.
And just to sum it up to what I'm going to send to the panel and to do what I do best, hopefully, if I was paying attention.
So basically, you were hired to go in and audit voting machines and you discovered there are some issues, but issues people didn't perceive to be actual issues.
You should they didn't actually know about this ballot insertion issue.
This goes back to 2005, though.
2005, you already knew about it.
2020, you saw something.
Well, it was already being covered up in 2005.
Right.
So this is something that's been around a long time.
Yeah.
So like my report in 2005 was literally blacklined.
I wasn't allowed to talk to Fernandez County.
The customer, they told me to basically like never talk about what I found again.
And what I found was basically, look, these things are broken 12 ways to Sunday and they're extra broken if you're using them to do mail-in voting, which is what happened in 2020.
And they did that in 2020.
So these same broken systems were used in 2020, even after the warnings that you've gave them as a white hot hacker, somebody who can break into these things.
You said, hey, these are problematic.
They said, shut up.
We don't want you to tell anybody.
And then they used them in 2020.
And some of the largest fraud that some people think happened in 2020 occurred.
Yeah.
And there's still no end-to-end cryptographs in any commercial voting machine, as far as I know.
So all the security they have, it's still like me how that's a great question.
Yeah.
Well, it's a little, it's harder to develop the stuff that I'm talking about.
And you have to have a special skill set.
And ultimately, they weren't mandated to do that.
Like the certification standards are very like, okay, do you have login protection around the, you know, can no one access the central tabulator system except the designated people?
Like that's the certification standard.
The certification standard doesn't look at like the inner workings of the machine.
You know, most of the time, 99.9% of the time, the machine's going to work correctly unless there is a person manipulating in which it's going to still work correctly, but the attacker, the manipulator, is going to get more of the result that they want.
The machine's not broken in that sense, but it is broken in the sense that it can't tell when it's being frauded, right?
Like in blockchain, you don't have that.
So I'm just confused.
I'm always confused why it hasn't happened yet.
Like in blockchain, we've just been talking about on-chain voting for so long.
It's like every time I interview a leader of some country, it's like they're saying, hey, the vote has been rigged.
Every loser across the world now is saying the vote has been rigged.
And then the people that have no way to prove whether it has or not, and then you go with it because confirmation bias, they want to believe it.
I'm just talking again that two days ago was in Pakistan.
Last week is in Brazil.
The interview I did.
Why hadn't we seen it like a surge in on-chain voting solutions?
Well, I'll correct something.
They don't need to be on-chain.
That's the first thing.
So like the voting machine manufacturers, the second they hear on-chain, they're like, oh, no, we're going to be out of business because it's going to be decentralized.
Right.
And so they have no incentive to make it on-chain.
And there's some problems with making it on-chain that I don't want to get into right now because it's like we're kind of having a higher level discussion.
But ultimately.
This is way in the weeds.
Yeah, we don't need blockchain voting to fix voting machines.
We just need N10 cryptographic proof.
Can I just throw out, I don't want voting machines at all.
Is that okay?
Like, everybody's talking about this.
So like you just talked about blockchain and all this.
You know, I want to take it to a time when we weren't using voting machines.
Like the two solutions that I've heard, and that's the reason I'm making all these faces, is I haven't heard we're ending mail-in ballots and we're going to fix the machines.
No, let's get rid of the machines altogether.
I want to take people back in time, not forward, David, to cavemen, when we have drawings of ones and the next one and the next one that we can do as human beings.
If you actually want to utilize technology to empower human beings in this system, I can make it real simple, real quick.
Okay.
Number one, you go in person to vote unless you have an extenuating circumstance, which we've had forever, where you would get this absentee ballot thing before mail-ins were the rage.
Okay.
So very limited, but you have that option.
All right.
Then you have some kind of identification.
You go in person.
You fill it out.
Okay.
Now, how do we audit that?
Why do we let the people audit it in real time?
So your information's at the top.
That immediately goes into a sleeve.
This is a physical ballot.
Okay.
In a sleeve.
Now, in some countries, they literally take these physical ballots and they put them in see-through bags in the middle of the room that people cannot touch or tamper with that are being filmed and streamed live.
So now everybody has access to watching this.
Then the two auditors sit down as they hand count the ballots.
There is a webcam streaming on each.
The sleeve protects the identity of the individual.
And you, in real time, get to count with everybody what those votes are.
There is a live and documented record.
I'm not saying there is no way to get around that, but let me say this.
It goes way better than something like black box voting, which I would encourage people to go check out Bev Harris's work.
They actually made an HBO documentary called Hacking Democracy on that.
And if you want to look at the modern day, go to Black Box Voting 2.0.
On top of that, I am one of those quote-unquote conspiracy theorists.
I think there is a lot of evidence, and this is a great article by Mark Crispin Miller back in 2004, that actually John Kerry beat George Bush and bent the knee.
He was basically placed there to lose.
Remember, Howard Dean was really kicking his arnus in everything political before the media made it all about, yeah.
And I want to end on this, okay?
And I'm going to play a clip for everybody here.
Here's a Democrat and a reviewer.
No way.
Crazy, I'm going to play a clip.
I don't believe it.
A lot of people, a lot of people talk about Hava and Carter and Baker and the mail-in ballots.
What they don't talk about is at that same meeting, and this is 20 years ago, September 19th, 2005, he talked about the machines and the fact that they're not even audited.
And by the way, his solution of 2% to 3% of these machines being audited, in my opinion, is not enough.
But let's go to Mr. Carter.
As you know, under Hava, there was a strong impetus to have electronic voting to do away with the hanging chads and so forth.
Ensuring Paper Backups00:15:32
And that's good, but there's been a wide range of concern that this completely secret and impenetrable system of computer software might open up an avenue of fraud.
So one of the things we're recommending is that there be a backup on paper, which other countries are already doing, by the way.
It's a simple technological matter.
Nevada did it this past year, so that there can be some comparison on the part of the voter.
This is the way I touch the screen.
Did my ballot comply?
You look at the paper ballot.
Jimmy, right?
The other thing is that even if the voter's not concerned.
Hold on.
Let me just finish.
Collectively, there needs to be some way to judge either allegations of discrepancies or fraud and a very close election to confirm the accuracy of the overall report.
And the third thing is to do, is to make sure that everyone knows in advance that there will be an auditing procedure undertaken so that anybody who's tempted at the beginning to do something fraudulent will know that one or 2% of all the voting places in the state will be arbitrarily selected and the paper ballot and the electronic ballot compared.
This would go a long way to deter any kind of attempt.
So can I jump in on Jimmy there?
Because what he's saying is absolutely right.
And what you're saying is also correct, right?
I'm not saying do away with paper ballots at all.
I think paper ballots are a great backup.
But when you have millions and millions of ballots, you're going to need some automated way of counting them.
And what I'm saying is like if you add off-chain cryptographic proofs to the ballot flow, essentially, what that does is doesn't create an audit of 2%.
It creates an automated audit of 100% that does not cost the voter anything.
All it is is just software work.
And to answer Mario's question, why hasn't this happened?
Well, in 2005, I was working for ESNS, not Dominion.
And ESNS was definitely not interested in doing any end-to-end cryptographic proofs.
All they were interested in was saying is like, look, our voting machines are great to sell to Franklin County, Ohio.
Tell them everything's fine.
Anything else, we're just going to black out.
And I can even share that report with you.
I've sat here patiently for an hour and I've got to bounce it forward.
So I got one question for you.
Shoot.
This is Clint Russell, by the way.
Hi.
All right.
Great to meet you.
It's been five years.
Donald Trump, who is adamant that the 2020 election was stolen, is the president of the United States.
He has access to, you would imagine, any level of data that he wants if he was willing to pursue it aggressively.
Has he not pursued this aggressively to get to the bottom of it?
Or if it were stolen, were the people behind it so technologically savvy that they were actually able to burn the entire trail that it is impossible to discover?
That is my question.
It is possible to burn the entire trail in terms of discovery.
And was the forensics done?
Whether it was, to my knowledge, no, because I was after Antrim County.
I wasn't working on anything else, right?
So, and like, I didn't see any follow-up on this sort of thing anywhere else, right?
So my sort of bother is that like, was there cheating in 2020?
I don't know because I didn't get to finish the work and I really want to know, right?
And so, you know, when somebody says there was definitely cheating, okay, there was definitely ballot harvesting.
There was definitely ballots, you know, that were paid for in certain places.
That definitely happened.
There was definitely media suppression.
But was there actual manipulation of the ballot machines like I'm talking about at a mass scale in 2020?
I don't know.
Do you think that Trump is not tree audit to figure that out on an absolute scale?
I mean, it'd be really hard to do right.
What you could do, right?
And there was nothing that you saw there.
It's just when you replicate Antrim County to the entire rest of the United States, of course, there could be irregularities because like, you know, even my soap is only 99.44% pure, right?
Correct.
I'm using ivory.
So yeah, I mean, I think 2020 is a lost cause if there is, you know, places that like, here's what we have to do to do it.
We have to go to the places where we know that there was, there was a really potential juicy cheating target.
So this would be like big precincts in swing states.
So it would be Fulton County, Georgia, Detroit, Maricopa, and we'd have to like reopen the whole thing and then make sure that what I'm suggesting actually got done.
That's exactly my question, though, Miho.
Why the hell hasn't that happened?
I mean, like you're saying 2020 is too far gone.
And I'll grant you, like maybe this is not discoverable.
But hold on.
Hold on.
This is just such a big deal.
If Joe Biden was in fact, if Trump, who has been adamant about this for fucking ever, if this is actually true, then the American people deserve to know that.
So it's not ancient history.
This is very recent.
And obviously it matters moving forward.
But I think it also matters that the American electorate understands if the presidency was stolen, that that actually occurred.
And I completely agree with you.
And if there was some way that I could do that audit right now or get, you know, but that's my question for you.
That's my question for you.
Is Trump not interested in getting to the truth?
I don't know because here's the thing.
Like, how many of you knew about ballot injection before I just talked about it?
Like the whole narrative was like, we're going to do a recount and the recount means everything's okay.
And we're going to check for these vulnerabilities that like Applebaum, you know, was looking for.
And if we don't find them, then everything's okay.
So everything's okay.
So why go look again?
Right.
What I'm saying is there is an attack surface that's very simple here that no one was aware of.
And the reason they weren't aware of it is chiefly the biggest proponent of this attack surface was me.
And I wasn't allowed to talk about it.
I'm like one guy.
This too.
I mean, it's not like there is this attack vector, but there's actual checks, which is what the canvassing boards are supposed to do, which is make sure that people checked in to vote and then the lists are equal and all these things.
I mean, this is like, yeah, I mean, there are vulnerabilities, of course, but you said yourself, you don't have the evidence.
And again, like I said, that on an absolute level to prove national full ballot security, nobody could do it, right?
I mean, there's just not one person.
You can't prove ballot security because you don't have that 100% audit that I'm talking about, which is again, a software upgrade.
So the question, why hasn't it happened yet is very, very valid.
It's mitigated because I've seen it mitigated even in places like Venezuela.
Are you familiar with the last Venezuelan election where the opposition created a system?
Excuse me?
When Chavez won again, right?
No.
Chavez is dead, dude.
He's been dead for quite a while.
Maduro didn't win, but he stole that one anyway.
But the opposition went.
So each polling place is required by Venezuelan law, despite it all being distorted by Chavez, like you said, to post a results page onto the precinct.
And they do that here.
They actually post these tallies that they do precinct by precinct, these checks, right?
And in Venezuela, they did a very simple and ingenious system to take pictures of all of them, upload all of them, and create a real snapshot of the entire election by precinct, which is a brilliant idea.
And it showed that Maduro had lost.
And when he stole the election, they could at least prove that he had stolen it.
Yes.
So there is.
It wouldn't be stolen like that.
But if we did do that, I think it would be a phenomenally brilliant idea to create a central database of the tapes from all of the tabulators.
Right.
So what you and Jason, you're both saying, Grant and Jason, is like this.
There's OPSEC ways to solve the problem.
What I'm saying is, why not make it so those are, you know, yes, you can do them, but they're not really necessary.
Right.
And like there is actually, if you add the type of stuff I'm talking about to the voting machines, you don't really need any of that because you have end-to-end cryptographic security without using blockchain.
But Mango, let me just say this.
I don't trust my government and I don't trust big corporations and I don't want them to have proprietary software that I have to sit here and talk to you who obviously a cyber expert, but you don't even have access to the source code and you're not working in this big team where you're able to go after these things.
So again, the more physicality that I can see and touch and just like he said, a screenshot of the election.
Well, again, a printout.
It is a printout, actually.
And then people.
Well, again, I would argue that if you have it in live time, every single vote on that camera, let's couple it with that cryptographic.
In fact, let's make it so it has a little QR code on the bottom that you get on your way out.
So you can literally check your QR code.
And when it's on the webcam, you can get a time code of when your ballot is actually on that, but your information is blacked out.
So it's your personal information.
You can take a look.
Oh, that is my ballot.
I mean, our technology should not be being used right now to enslave us via our voting system.
It should be empowering us to make our voting system legitimate so that these people in office actually fear being voted out.
Because like I said, I don't trust any of these election results, whether it's a national election, Trump, Biden, like you said, 81 million votes for the guy with dementia.
Caller me skeptical.
But even in smaller elections, you know, I look at somebody like Carrie Lake, okay?
And whether you liked her or not, she seemed incredibly popular to lose two elections, one as the governor and one as the senator, to somebody who seemed extremely unpopular.
Now, who knows?
Maybe I'm being a conspiracy theorist, but we can't audit that.
Like, that's a huge issue.
We should be able to audit of Maricopa's vote in 2021, sponsored by Patrick Byrne.
Sidney Powell was involved, but didn't quite pay for it.
And they came out that Joe Biden actually won a couple hundred more votes than were officially counted for him.
So, Maricopa, we can rule that one out too.
Let me ask this because, look, and I think what we're talking about is after the fact going in and looking for proof of fraud.
And I think what Mihao is saying is that we can fix this beforehand by having something in place that validates the votes.
And then that's what American Fortress is, right?
Because we got to wrap here in a minute.
And I want to understand exactly what your proposed solution is.
Okay.
So two things.
One is what Jason said about the QR code, right?
So we can anonymize that QR code.
We can make it basically work like exactly what he's saying.
In fact, what he's saying, I put in a patent application that's, you know, four years ago, right after I got done doing this work.
So it's like there is really easy ways where it's like, you know, kind of like modern tech, you know, you can just verify your vote on your phone.
Like that's exactly what I'm talking about.
That would be a software upgrade.
Now, what is American?
American Fortress is a centename crypto wallet.
It uses the same cryptographic primitives we use in the voting systems, but it does something else.
It's like PayPal, decentralized PayPal for all of crypto, right?
So basically our wallet, which you'll be able to, you know, there's some huge ecosystems deploying it.
MetaMask is one.
There's going to be another one next week that I'm going to drop.
You guys will have all the links for.
But it's all going into public beta.
We've been secretly testing it for the last year.
And it's an amazing system.
Like basically, you just sign up for a name and then all other wallets on planet Earth know how to send you money.
They automatically compute the receive addresses.
No one knows what they are except you and the recipient.
So like if David's sending me money, it'll be a different address than Jason.
So it's not like unstoppable or any of these other things that totally expose who you are.
And then we have KYC and a hardware wallet and the custody system is being deployed to brinks in there as well.
But like the reason that I'm passionate about voting is actually, I was working on the voting stuff, you know, as I was working on these other things.
And essentially, what we have is this very thorough understanding of chain cryptographic primitives that allow us to add integrity to any piece of digital software without actually using blockchain per se, right?
And that's really, it would be the Jason solution, except cryptographically.
Well, not except it's the Jason solution and cryptographically secure.
Wow, a Jason solution.
All right.
So the next election is going to be secure.
We're going to call it the Jason solution.
It's a product offered by American Fortress.
And we have a whole thing now.
Guys, we're going to wrap here.
And I want to say thank you very much for the great conversation.
Certainly a conversation we're going to continue to have.
Mihao, what I learned from you today suggests that maybe we need to take a second look at this.
And look, Grant makes some great points about things that were looked at and what they found.
And that's the common argument is we've looked at this.
We haven't found anything.
But at the same time, we can look from a different angle.
If we find something, certainly it's something to address and certainly something to fix.
So, Mihao, I appreciate your work on it.
And Jason, as always, I appreciate all the informative insight you have with the slideshows.
You come armed with a show in every show.
Clips of Jimmy Carter.
Clips of Jimmy Carter.
This is the next show.
I like it.
Like always ready to go.
I'm going to send it over to you guys for last words and follows.
What do you want people to check you out?
What do you want people to do after this show to learn more about what you're working on?
I'll start with you, Grant, and then over to you.
Jason, then I'll end it with you, Mihao.
Oh, thanks.
Yeah, I mean, you can go to newsletter.grantstern.com.
That's my sub stack.
I actually just put out that story about what's happening in Fulton County about two months ago.
And I've got something else interesting coming up about one of Donald Trump's top former advisors, newsletter.grantstern.com.
Of course, I'm at GrantStern on Twitter.
You can follow me there.
And GrantStern.com has pretty much links to anything else you want to find.
I want to thank you for having me on.
And I think this is a very, very enlightening conversation.
Yeah, it was interesting.
Thank you so much for being here.
All right, Jason, throw it over to you.
First of all, I want to thank you and Mario for having me on this platform on a platform that really doesn't like me too much.
I am actually going to be hosting now one of the days of the turning the tide 9-11 justice in 2025 in Washington, D.C. from 9-10 to 9-12.
We've got Senator Ron Johnson.
We've got former Representative Kurt Weldon, Dennis Kucinich, John Keriaku, who you recently interviewed, and also Clayton Morris, as well as some of the family members there.
I'm very excited to be speaking at this on the 24th anniversary of 9-11.
I really hope that we can start gaining the momentum into the 25th anniversary so we can get even more disclosure and maybe a real independent investigation into 9-11.
The Tuck-ins just announced yesterday that he is releasing a five-part documentary series on the truth of 9-11.
Hey, Tuck, 20 plus years too late, but I'll take it.
And if you want to see my documentaries on 9-11, you can do so at all my platforms.
Loose Change Final Cut and Fabled Enemies are free of charge.
Please check them out and spread them around.
Wow.
Thank you.
You and I have to talk about that offline.
Thank you for being here, my friend.
All right, Mihao, throwing it over to you.
Thank you for such an interesting conversation today.
I have a lot to research after this.
I think we all learned some things.
So I want to throw a give a last word over to you.
Talk about what you want people to follow up on, what you want people to know about you.
And then we'll end it there.
Yeah, awesome.
Thanks for having me.
Last Word OnPolitics00:02:07
It's a great, great to have like a political panel that's can go back and forth on this.
I love Grant's perspective.
I love Jason's perspective.
And then the other folks that we had, obviously Mario as well.
So, you know, super appreciate being able to tell the story.
So now I'm like, okay, I told the story.
Telling the story is actually not my primary motivation in life.
My primary information life is to make amazing software that helps people.
So if you want to follow us, it's AmericanFortress.io.
You can sign up on the list there.
We are doing, you know, we're going to be releasing the software next week.
You'll be able to sign up for names.
I'm Mihao Hacks on X.
So you can follow me there.
You can also follow the American Fortress account on X.
And then, you know, if you're a voting machine manufacturer, come talk to us.
And I, because I'd love to just, you know, add the software to your voting machine.
So now you guys can hit the it's secure button and then you'll have all the sales.
So that would be, you know, very, very, very great for me.
And then in terms of like follow-ups that you guys have, happy to have those conversations, you know, happy to re-look at you know what is or isn't there, you know, with Maricopa.
I never got to look at the inside of that.
Like, you know, I haven't essentially, I didn't even know if when I was looking at it, I couldn't get access to the data.
So like, I don't know if the, you know, if there is a there or not.
But I'd love to take another look at it.
You know, I'll put in the work and keep chasing this because I do think it's worthwhile to make voting easily secure for Americans and actually the whole world without really anybody having to do anything except some you know math.
Math just has to do the work.
And that's really it.
So thank you guys.
Well, thank you for being here.
Great show, great topic.
And I'm sure we're going to talk about this again real soon.
Thank you all for joining.
And folks, that is going to wrap it up.
I thought that was a really interesting discussion.
Now, of course, I didn't say much in the beginning.
And Grant's audio is a bit low.
I'm going to try to fix that and post.
So maybe it's not as low as what I'm talking about right now, but I'm sure it's going to be off a little bit.
Occupy Democrats.
Hey, Democrats, Republicans, right, left, not to this guy.