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Another day and another chapter in the Epstein saga.
Now, we're going to be discussing the latest from Trump.
Now, acknowledging, yes, there are files and saying what, if they're credible, then Bondi can release them, the firing of Comey's daughter, and so much more.
The Mario Nafal broadcast has really been a godsend for me to get the real information about Epstein and others out there.
So, buckle up and get ready to make sense of the madness.
Good morning, good afternoon, good evening to all our listeners from wherever you're listening around the world.
As we continue this marathon coverage on the Epstein files, President Trump, Republicans, MAGA, Democrats, who's on the list, who's not.
But apparently, Donald Trump is doubling and tripling down, claiming that the Epstein files are a Democratic hoax.
And if you believe in it, you're falling for Russian Gate, that somehow Obama, Clinton, Biden managed to get everybody in the file to be basically blackmailing the GOP and Trump, and that's why they're not going to release it.
And so it kind of feels like the messaging might be a little bit all over the place from the administration side.
First, they said there was no list, and now Trump says there is a list, but it's a hoax.
And now, actually, in his true social, he did say he is now instead of the Russia hoax, now this is the Jeffrey Epstein hoax.
So I'm going to start.
Jason, you are laughing.
As somebody who has covered this extensively, just got to say, man, based on President Trump, you fell for a Democratic trick.
You fell for Democratic propaganda.
What do you have to say to that?
Well, I just want to say, first and foremost, I was one of the first and only people back in 2016, 2017, actually talking about the relationship between Trump and Epstein.
Well, before NBC got a hold of that video where it's the cringe dance fest, I talked about how it was reported in Filthy Rich that they had a relationship and the falling out was due to one of the girls.
It would end up being Virginia Guffray Roberts, her father working there as a chef, and essentially Epstein pimping her out.
So that is, again, the Prince Andrew, and where a lot of this information that has been unredacted comes from.
Now, I would say that there is a plethora of other information out there, that they had a long and extensive business relationship, usually with real estate.
And there was also reporting to the effect that the fallout was actually through a property deal where Jeffrey Epstein undercut Trump and took a property that he really wanted.
Now, I don't know what the truth is, but I do know that Trump is quoted in Vanity Fair as waiting for Epstein and his girlfriend, presumably Maxwell at the time.
And when he gets there, he said, you broke the cardinal rule, Jeffrey.
You were late for somebody else's plane.
Also alluding to the fact that he had flown on his plane as well.
So that relationship is a very long one.
And the idea, for instance, that this is a Democrat thing.
Let's go to Trump's attorney general for a moment, okay?
Bill Barr.
Number one, I have him laughing hysterically with a news reporter when he's asked whether or not they're going to keep Glaine Maxwell from a suicide situation.
You can't make that up.
I'd love to play it for you.
But he also represented Epstein via Kirkland and Ellis and talked about recusing himself from any investigations that came up during the first Trump administration.
Now, you want to go even further back.
We've talked about the connection with his father and Epstein, but really you have to look back to the BCCI banking scandal that I mentioned on this last one and the arms trade.
Because if you listen to some of the pilots from that arms trade, they talk about Bill Barr. being an individual known as Robert Johnson.
That was his CIA cover, and he was absolutely CIA.
That's not under debate.
And let's just say they don't paint a very nice picture of Mr. Barr, who they call Robert Johnson.
And I'll leave it at that.
So before we go into the nitty-gritty and kind of the details as you laid out, Jason, I do want to go to the other panelists and all that.
And my question, if I may, Josiah, just from your perspective, because you were talking about the problem is messaging.
I mean, can you defend?
I'm not even going to, I'm just going to ask you, can you just, I mean, Trump saying to his base, if you fall for this, you're basically stupid, I think is the term he said.
I don't agree that would be the best messaging campaign.
What can Trump do?
I mean, he has alluded to that.
Maybe he'll appoint a special prosecutor.
Do you think that might help?
What do you think is the next steps that the Trump administration needs to do?
Because it doesn't look like this is dying down either by the base or the media.
All right, so let's talk about that quick.
Can I?
Just quickly?
I think that number one, you can't let it die down.
It has to go to a special prosecutor.
And the messaging is all over the place in the sense that you also forgot to mention that he literally said that Pam Bondi can release the files she thinks are credible.
Why does Pam Bondi get to decide what files are credible?
That alone is a huge red flag for anything that comes up.
So the messaging by Trump himself at this point is really destroying himself, Stefano.
That's how I feel.
Josiah.
Yeah, I mean, look, I understand Trump's frustration.
You have people like, you know, supposed supporters just flaming out on social media about this latest.
And the point isn't that there wasn't anything wrong done by Epstein, but rather you get people saying stuff like Trump is a pedophile enabler.
Trump is actually on the secret list.
That's all crazy.
And Trump is right to be angry about the way that a lot of his supporters or supposed supporters can't find the emotional continents to deal with the fact that this is a really complex issue.
And, you know, this very possible that evidence was destroyed in the past.
It was altered.
If you really think Epstein is the epicenter of this global cabal that's processing children and raping children on this island, and he was murdered inside of a Bureau of Prisons, maximum security unit, those people who are powerful enough to engage in that kind of conspiracy, the idea that they could then have influence in the rest of the government should be plausible.
But instead, you have people just absolutely running wild and accusing Trump of being a part of this.
And I don't think there's any evidence of that.
And so in terms of messaging, in terms of how Trump's approaching it, I think he's right to be mad at the way that a lot of these influencers hammer this issue in the midst of him attaining real policy wins.
He's delivering for the American people.
And whether or not there's documents there that people believe are there, look, they're releasing what they have.
And if they haven't released things, then they should release them.
But this is getting stupid is my point.
Like at this point, look, what is it that people want?
You want a smoking gun?
You want to see all these videos?
What if they've been deleted?
What then?
What is there more to release?
Well, he's all this other stuff.
I mean, maybe.
Thank you for the video.
I'm going to go straight to Dave.
Dave, two minutes and 58 seconds now.
It's not one, 258, number one.
So again, Let's be generous and call it erroneous information was released because we have the editing.
We have instead of one minute, it's two minutes and 58, I believe.
This is the exact number.
And so, again, they say something they're getting caught on their lives.
So the messaging is all over the place.
But it also rises this idea of speculations where now people are saying to Josiah's point, that it's a frustrating aspect.
Why isn't why is Trump now just insulting the people who believe this, who were a core tenant that was maybe not Trump specifically, but a huge component of the MAGA campaign was part of this?
Now, I mean, something, why do you think Trump is taking this route?
Where do you lie in?
Is it more kind of like this conspiracy aspect?
Well, I think frustration and terrible messaging.
I think he's actually pivoted from that to some extent, calling it a hoax on par with Russia Gate, built upon the same people that, you know, brought about and pushed Russia Gate.
He's now saying that, you know, Bondi can release what she thinks is credible.
But the whole assertion that he's coming up with this new Epstein conspiracy theory, that it was the Democrats, when it was actually the populist right wingers talking about this endlessly.
And it doesn't make any sense whatsoever that the Democrats are going to forge documents if they're not going to release them.
That method only makes sense if they're going to release them and try to frame Trump in this.
Now, very few people on Trump's side of this whole thing, or at least supporters of Trump, are saying that they think that Trump is implicated in crimes.
They're just saying he's implicated in the cover-up, which he is.
And it's not just fake Trump supporters, Josiah.
I call Steve Bannon and Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson and Matt Walsh true Trump supporters that are pushing back on this.
It's not just the faux ones, and they carry a lot of weight here.
Mike, let me, as he mentioned, the Democrats, let me go to you quickly on this aspect from your perspective.
The Democrats tried to do a debate on the vote that failed.
They were saying, okay, this is for Jeffrey Epstein to release the files, kind of the rules and all that.
People said, oh, there's other things, and the Republicans started pivoting.
So that failed.
A lot of people, even within, as I think as Dave mentioned, kind of in the Jeffrey Epstein right-wing populist information space were kind of riled up about that.
But now, if I'm not mistaken, RoConna and Congressman Madison, both of them introduced a bipartisan bill in Congress, basically saying, hey, we got to release it.
We see the Speaker of the House also saying this.
From a Democratic perspective, do you think that they should be pushing this a lot more?
Maybe it's not the, maybe it's kind of like what people say in Watergate, the, you know, the cover-up is worse than the crime.
Do you think there's a vehicles that Democrats can use to really hone this message?
Well, I think unfortunately for this administration is that they are a victim of their own success when it comes to fanning the planes with this conspiracy theory.
I was on the same air the other day, and I was the one that said, you know, I fully believe what this administration is putting out.
I believe that he committed suicide.
End of story.
A couple of hours later, we're talking about edited doctor videos and other things of that nature.
So now people like me that were given the benefit of the doubt and, you know, trying to go with the government's version of how things are happening were even skeptical.
Like, okay, maybe there is a little bit more there there.
So just by not being forward from the beginning, not being having a frank conversation with the American people saying, look, look, you know, I'm a rich guy.
He's a rich guy.
There's not a lot of billionaires in the world.
We all hang out with each other.
That doesn't mean we share the same values.
That doesn't mean we pray together.
That doesn't mean we eat together.
We may go to a lunch here or there.
We may go to some other social function.
Yes, I've been seen with Jeffrey Epstein before, but that doesn't mean that I'm in cahoots with him.
Would have went so far with Democrats, Republicans, Independents, you name it.
That would have been a plausible explanation, and we could have moved on.
But when you're trying to put things off on Pam Bondi saying it's her fault, and then you go to the FBI, I mean, Trump's usual things, none of it's working.
It's usually blame the media, blame Democrats, which he did.
I fully expected him to.
Then he tried to blame Biden, which I thought was a little bit of a stretch.
Then he tried to blame Obama saying this was all an Obama deal.
And then he landed the plane on trying to say that MAGA was weak for believing into it.
So all this heat that he has on right now, because this Epstein situation is basically, again, I'll end it like I started it.
They are a victim of their own.
They ran elected because of this deep state, and everybody was hiding all these secrets.
Hell, Trump appears to be the deep state, Ben.
Let me go to you.
I mean, I think everybody knows here.
I've been in America.
I've been in the skeptical side.
Don't get me wrong.
I have to kind of, I mean, it gets to the point where it's like, okay, what the hell?
I mean, again, it's not one-minute editing that everything released.
It was 258, the Adobe Pro.
And then, and it's the, and then what kind of to me was kind of a little red flag or something in, you know, like I spatter sense is like, why would you insult your base?
I mean, I don't think, I mean, I'm trying to remember, you know, Biden, Obama, you know, they were more centrist.
And so their base of supporters were more.
It's almost like we would never imagine any politician saying, oh, because you believe this, you're wrong, you're falling for a Democratic host.
I mean, there's Ben, it just seems weird that this is the directions Trump is taking.
And is there any way he can try to pivot?
Because I'll be honest, again, I've listened to MAGA's pace.
I listen to the people are pissed, and I can't blame them for being upset.
Yeah, you know, like this looks just as bad on the people who are still supporting Trump as it does on Trump himself.
Like, if you are still simping for Trump while he's openly covering up for pedophiles, that's a terrible look.
And truthfully, like, I don't know how anyone with any kind of integrity could even do that.
But what I will say is, obviously, everyone here is very interested in seeing the files that exist that they now say didn't exist and now they've reappeared.
But, you know, what I'm also interested in finding out here, and what I think everybody wants to know is how many other Epsteins are there, one, and two, you know, I think that there's a much bigger thing at play here that they're actually trying to hide, which is the ties to Mossad and the ties to Israel.
And we really need to get to the bottom of that because I think that that's a much more powerful thing than just covering up some kind of ring.
Ties To Mossad Unveiled00:04:09
And those people, like, they don't want to be found.
There's obviously tons of evidence.
Like, you know, there's some people in here that have mentioned, you know, that they believe that maybe he did hang himself.
But let me let me jump into here just quickly.
Sorry.
I don't, I didn't want to just like, okay, let's let's let's let's just say everything Jason says is true.
That either he was a well, let's say he's a foreign intelligence asset.
Like, what does that affect the United States?
Like, who gives a shit?
Hey, he was a foreign intelligent.
Hold on, hold on, hear me out.
Hear me out.
Hear me out.
Let me run through this.
Let's say everything you're saying is true.
Let's say he's a CIA guy or he was Mossad or both or MI6, DGSE.
Like, okay, got it.
They were doing it for blackmail.
Why would it be so hard to say, hey, first of all, if you're Trump who literally run against the deep state, this is like, here's your golden platter to the American people.
Here it is.
This is your political, I mean, just, and then he could use this to say, Biden could have released it and he covered it up.
But if, like, at some point, I'm looking at this from kind of like, I mean, again, I'm not trying to get into his head, but I just feel like there has to be something else that maybe Trump is, not necessarily intelligence, because I think American people can brush it off and being like, the CI is the CI.
We all know Church Committee 2.0 break the hammer down, fire people.
If we need to do prosecutions, this is way out of mind.
Like, blah, blah, blah, got it.
You know, look, the American people tolerated torturing during after 9-11.
Right.
And so I'm just thinking, like, if that's the case, I feel like Trump would be given a gold pattern.
It has to be something else.
And either he overpromised and he just doesn't know how to say, my bad, I was wrong, or something about either him or his inner circle terrifies them much more in a political sense.
And the only way they know how to respond is attack.
But the problem is you're attacking your base because the base of Trump is the one who's pushing this much more so than, let's say, Mike would.
Because as Mike alluded to, hey, I would have taken the government's argument, but now after all this, what the hell?
I mean, the Democrats should be just as scared as the Republicans, in my opinion, on this, because there's going to definitely be some incriminating stuff there that puts them on the spotlight.
But, you know, my why does it matter that, you know, Israel, we had a prime minister staying at Jeffrey Epstein's house.
Why does that matter?
It's because we have been doing the bidding of Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu and the people that are controlling Israel for over 20 years.
We have, they say, they point and we go.
And that's the bigger problem is that all of these endless wars that we're involved with, you know, they're really fighting more for Israel's interests than they are for our interests.
And, you know, I really think that that's an answer that, you know, it's damning to both sides, one, but two, that's definitely an answer that people on both sides probably don't want to come out because it's going to be bad.
So, Stephen, let me go to you.
I know, I mean, from my perspective, like, you know, it's funny because when we had the Israel-Iran space, it was kind of interesting that, you know, I was, there was an Israeli Zionist who was on our place and he said, hey, you know, I don't want American support because that means we're beholden to them.
And I think there's always this debate, like, who's beholden to?
I will be, from my experience, military deployed, dude, like, in the power dynamic between U.S. and Israel in the Middle East, the U.S. was on top.
And we leveraged the Israelis for a lot of things that we didn't want to do.
Trust In Trump's Legacy00:15:06
We was like, all right, Israel, here you go.
You do our dirty work.
Goodbye.
Not wanting to get into that specifically, but, you know, I just feel like from a political sense, you know, even from yourself, from a libertarian aspect, this is, I mean, this is a golden opportunity for anybody.
It could be the libertarians.
It could be Elon Musk, a newcomer.
I mean, this to me, it could really sow divisions in a key base of the Trump ideology and movement.
Because one of the things that Trump, especially in 2024, where they were very successful is, is getting low propensity voters higher turnout to vote for them.
And it just takes one person to say, don't skip the polls.
Your vote mattered, but go to me.
And I just think from even a libertarian perspective, this is a prime opportunity and it hits your message of always distrust the federal government, no matter who's in power.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean, I think.
Trust is absolutely at an all-time low, especially given the about face we've seen from the Trump administration on the Epstein issue several times already.
And quite frankly, the messaging coming from Donald Trump is not only very awkward, but it's also somewhat suspicious how hard he's been rallying against his own base saying, look, just forget about the Epstein files.
It's none of your business.
And from a libertarian perspective, I mean, we hate pedophiles as much as we hate politicians.
Several politicians excluded Thomas Massey, Justin Mosh, and others who are trying to write the ship and actually expose what's going on.
Massey actually is introducing a resolution that is going to make an online searchable database of the Epstein files available to the public, which I think at this point, you've asked several times, Stefano, what is it going to take to get the public's trust?
I think something like that would get the public's trust.
Either there's nothing there or there's something there and we're just going to have to reckon with it.
But from a libertarian perspective, I do believe we're seeing a lot of people who put trust in the Trump administration to end the wars, to stop being Israel's puppet, to bringing, you know, getting out of NATO, ending the war in Ukraine within 24 hours, releasing the Epstein files, becoming more fiscally conservative in Congress.
We're just not seeing these things happen.
Not only that, we're actually seeing the opposite happen.
So I know a lot of MAGA libertarians that have been very, very forgiving, trying to see some kind of change through the Republican Party and the Trump administration that at this point are totally deflated.
They basically lost all trust that anything could be done through those old DeWopoly parties.
And it's almost looking like the DOJ and the FBI and all these other federal agencies are basically working for the elite.
And if there is something going on, are they covering it up?
And that's a big question a lot of the MAGA base has.
It's a big question the libertarian base has always had.
Who are they actually working for?
What is being covered up?
What are we not being told, et cetera?
And of course, we may or may not ever get the answers here, but I do see a huge schism in Trump's base.
I think how he's handling it is probably just the worst possible way it could be handled.
And that certainly benefits us.
And it certainly raises more questions than it answers when you see legislation being passed by the Republicans to continue the cover-up.
So, you know, I think there's two questions here.
Whether or not there is a conspiracy is one, but whether or not there's a cover-up is certainly a second question.
And at the very least, I think we deserve some public recognition as to, you know, what is being withheld from us so we could make a determination and not take the state's word for it.
So, Graham, let me go to you before I go to Chief Chumpser, and that way we all get initial reactions and then we can go to the free-for-all, which will be glorious.
Graham, all right, your opinion.
Is this a situation where the cover-up is worse than the crime?
Or do you believe there's something actually there, whatever it may be, that is forcing Trump to basically take the position and the extreme position that he's at?
So before getting into the nitty-gritty, I do believe something's there, but I think that the Trump administration politically is suffering from being in like a Fox News boomer bubble, like the same way Democrats were in and still are in basically like an MSNBC CNN bubble.
And it's like they, it's like, I understand Trump's almost 80 years old, but like they still haven't figured out that like we have X, like we have information that we can share freely.
And they're just calling people conspiracy theorists.
Like it doesn't, it doesn't work anymore.
And again, it's like the same thing as the Dems during COVID.
Hey, the vaccine doesn't prevent infection.
Masks don't prevent infection.
Biden's suffering cognitive decline.
Like they don't want to hear it and they'll just call you conspiracy theorists.
I think it's like the same thing that's going on with Trump.
Like I don't even know if Trump and Pam Bondi like are aware that one of Jeffrey Epstein's clients, I'm not saying sexual clients, but one of his clients for his asset group was Adnan Khashoggi, who was involved in, who was involved in Iran-Contra, a Saudi gun runner.
And when Epstein's house was raided in 2019, they found a fake Saudi passport.
Like, does Pam Bondi even know this?
Does Trump even know this?
Like I said, or are they living in such a Fox News bubble that they have no idea?
And so I don't think that they realize like how upset that their base is, because as long as they're agreeing with Mark Levin and Sean Hannity, well, that's all that matters.
They've gone back on the UK.
He's sending weapons to Ukraine.
They've bombed Iran and he's endorsing Lindsey Graham while trying to primary Thomas Massey.
It just seems to me, I'll finish before I started, is that they're just living in like a Fox News, like Mark Levin, Sean Hannity, like boomer bubble.
You know, it's funny you say, when you were talking that, I was listening.
I was like, I got to pull up Truth Social, his own.
And his post where he discredits everybody.
And you know what?
Let me, I'm going to push this right to Josiah.
All right.
Number one comment on the top.
So prove it was a hoax instead of bashing your past supporters because that isn't helping your midterm chances.
Why is the Epstein case so important to the MAGA movement?
Question.
Answer.
It's why Trump won in 2016.
He promised to rip the mask off the globalist elites and drain the filthy swamp.
If the GOP betrays that mission again, at least a third of the base walks and they will lose 2026.
Guaranteed.
This last one.
You are pissed off that MAGA does not buy into your tent tatromes.
This is your waterloom, Mr. President.
Blaming people like me who have stood by you through thick and thin is disloyalty.
Without us, you are nothing but a bully running out of choices.
Release the complete Epstein files unredacted.
By the way, we didn't vote for escalating the Ukraine war into World War III.
What happened to America first?
Just I think what Grant said and that example he made about the boomer and the mainstream media, et cetera, encapsulates entirely the problem that Trump is having right now.
Because he created this.
Let's be frank.
What did Trump do in 2024 that Kamala Harris had into?
For example, the podcasts, the podcast grows.
He leveraged X after Elon Musk put it, pushed it.
He had his own social media, Truth Social.
He funneled his energy into alternative media, where maybe, as Grant is alluding to, into Mike's perspective, the Democratic base is more consolidated in mainstream media news organizations and sources.
You can maybe argue that they're transitioning to a TikTok, right?
You can argue that.
But you blame that people are not getting the policies and the wins, but you created this ecosystem where people don't care.
This is the thing.
And you can't just ignore it.
So, yeah, I mean, ignoring it, but Trump is addressing, and I think Trump's frustration centers on, I've done all these things.
I provided wins for my base.
Trump did not run on releasing the Epstein files.
I think on one search, he talked about it once during the campaign.
He ran on issues of national sovereignty.
He ran on immigration, trade, and foreign war.
And it's true.
The way that Trump is handling some of these foreign policy initiatives, people disagree about this and that.
Trump leans toward, he's not completely out of the liberal world order, but he is leaning toward a more restrained, more America-first foreign policy.
That's a good thing.
That's the most libertarian foreign policy I've seen in my lifetime, despite the fact that there are some issues that a non-interventionist would have with things that Trump has done.
But from Trump's perspective, he's out here delivering these wins and people attacking him relentlessly on this thing.
And it's not clear what is it that people want?
What is it they want to see out of the Epstein files?
I will say this.
The worst things in this country happen in the light of day.
You don't need to see secret files from Epstein, Little St. James Island to know that Anthony Fauci and politicians during 2020 locked Americans in their house.
They mandated the vaccine.
Joe Biden was not in charge of the government.
They were lying about his mental health, his ability to govern the country.
All of that is out in the open.
And now people are like, but the thing I want is this secret list of videos of politicians performing a sex acts.
And what if it doesn't exist?
What if it did exist?
It was destroyed.
What will you do then?
And the reality is we live in a sort of nihilistic media environment because of the delegitimization that has occurred in American political life.
And the way to get to the core of that problem is simply to deliver on political results.
Trump is saying, I'm doing that.
So where is the trust?
Why do you continue to attack even though I've delivered win after win after win?
And honestly, I understand where he's coming from.
And it turns out there's a secret.
Josiah, I just got to stop you.
Josiah.
Josiah, you mentioned Anthony Fauci.
How is it a win that it was his administration that was duped by Fauci and the CDC on a virus that was literally cooked up via Chapel Hill in this country?
The Department of Energy, Institutes of New York shipped over to China.
And then the hate and lie shot that they produced in this country under that administration, okay, was DARPA-driven in partnership with Moderna.
Donald.
Hold on.
That started in 2013.
Wait, wait, let me stop.
And then it's Musk whose Tesla partners with Cure Vac to build the micro-nano factories to print those shots.
Those are wins.
What planet are you on, bro?
Like, I don't understand what you're talking about when you say wins.
That was under his administration.
There has been no apology or acknowledgement.
The one maya culpa is RFK Jr., which people like me acknowledge.
He's still the lesser of two evils, but just like Stefano talked about, okay, he said he was taking the mask off.
Did he take the mask off when he said lock her up and it didn't happen?
Did he take the mask off when he said, I love the WikiLeaks, can't get enough for the WikiLeaks?
Then his DOJ went after Assange.
We have to live in reality, man.
Just a question.
Who commuted and got into a deal to release Julian Assange?
Well, it was under the Biden administration.
I've commented that.
Again, there was no acknowledgement by either administration nor the press during not just an election year, but I think within six months of the election.
How insane is that that they didn't ask the two people running for president what their position on Assange was?
That shows you how rigged the game really is.
Okay, but let me hear, let me let me let me I want you to answer it, but I think what he let me let me put it this way: let me put it this way, right?
Like your argument is literally, I feel like the Biden argument in the sense that we passed the infrastructure bill, we passed the CHIPS Act, inflation skyrocketed, but then we lowered it.
But people didn't, we had this conversation in a previous live stream: emotions and policies.
But, brother, that's not emotions because I looked at the Biden's policy.
First of all, Biden was a dementia patient before he was installed when he was conscious.
No, no, no.
But what I'm trying to get at, what I'm trying to get, even if let's say you he's a dementia patient, he he let's answer, got whatever.
But what he's arguing, what the argument I'm hearing is even what Kamala Harris was saying is ignore the Biden check, look at our policies and our accomplishment and vote us on that.
Vote us.
That was the messaging they had.
The govern, we can brother Stefano.
Their build back better bill was the infrastructure bill, and nobody wanted that.
Nobody wanted they had to rename the same thing.
Again, I don't know what big wins came for the Democratic Party during the Biden.
No, this is, but this is this is, I think, where maybe you disagree.
But what forget these specific aspects of each individual policy.
You might hate it, Mike maybe loves it.
I might love it.
That's not the argument.
I'm the argument to Josiah's point is what he is saying: focus on the policy wins.
That's the same argument.
You might disagree with him from a political lens.
That's fine, but that's literally the message in 2024.
And what Trump was so effective at and his influencers and his communications was: you, if it looks like bullshit and it smells like bullshit, it's bullshit.
And now I've been running into a situation where it's the same with Epstein, and they can't get away from it.
And even, and to Josiah, as though it's like you're saying, and then I'm going to go to Chief Trump's presentation, he just joined us again, but Josiah, it's like focus on the policies, got it, but look at his true social, they don't care because you're betraying the heart of what you ran on not only in 2016, but specifically in 2024.
You know, just to respond quickly here.
So, you know, again, with Trump, he's always revealing and he's always leaning in the right direction.
So you bring up COVID policy.
Donald Trump wanted to reopen the country by Easter.
He said that.
Stefano Reveals Documents00:11:02
Now, everybody was crazy.
And Donald Trump backed down from calling for all these state governors to relax these policies.
He did Operation Warp Speed, but he didn't mandate the VAX.
Donald Trump was hosting the biggest events in America in the fall of 2020 at his rallies.
I went to them.
So the reality is, Donald Trump was always leaning in the right direction when other people were insane.
And maybe there were people who were better.
It doesn't matter.
Trump was on the right side there.
But to come to these issues, this core is, of course, Trump is running on his policies.
Every politician runs on their policies.
Look at what I've done.
Look at what I've produced.
The reality was for Democrats, nobody gave a shit about their policies.
They didn't deliver on the issues that Americans cared about, issues like immigration.
And this Epstein stuff is a lot like people who I know who have never forgiven Trump for Operation Warp Speed.
And it's like, well, what would you like?
Would you like to vote for Democrats?
You vote for Libertarians and get 2% of the vote every time and hand it over to the communists.
This is ridiculous.
When you have a political movement, you got to win.
You got to produce policies.
That's what Trump has done.
And I think a lot of people need to get on board.
Like, we're winning.
Let's keep winning.
That means there's going to be some trade-offs here, but losing your mind over these internet stuff.
I mean, what more is there to do?
Chief, Chief Trump, sir, you just joined us.
I'm at it.
All you.
Yeah, so a bunch of things.
I'll start with this.
I mean, in terms of Post and Epstein, the biggest issue that I've seen from Trump administration on this is at first they said there's no files.
And initially, my perspective as one of the panelists on here was, was the fact that I don't think that there's like some sort of big government or big operation or blackmail chain going on that they leave paper evidence behind or any paper trailer to show like these people did this crime, this government did this thing, this operative committed this act against this person.
I wasn't under the impression that that would be, you know, it would be found or tracked or anything like that.
If you can go and kill off Epstein, they give us some papers.
However, because the Trump administration's confusing responses from saying there are no files, them saying, well, actually, there are some files, but it's a Democrat hoax, to them saying it's a Obama-rated files and comparing it to like the Hunter Biden laptop and the 51 agent or 51 intelligence operatives who said there's no laptop or anything.
I mean, it was completely ridiculous.
The responses have been contradictory.
The DOJ FBI under Pam Bonzi, Kash Patel, Bongino, all of them have been completely just uncoordinated on all of this.
And the thing about someone mentioned about campaign promise or whatever, say there's no promise.
He said it three times on the campaign trail, campaigning in different media forms.
It's not the 1900s.
You can campaign on live streams.
You can campaign on podcasts.
You can campaign for media forms.
We're not limited to just being on a stump speech and saying my policy, and that's all it is.
He's trying to persuade voters and tell them what he's going to do.
He said he's inclined to go and release the files.
He's inclined to.
He said that on Alex Rian's podcast.
He made other remarks on Fox and one more remark on a separate show.
In the past, he also retweeted posts from like, I think, 2016 during his first run saying he wanted an investigation into Epstein and looking into his matters from way back then.
The point being is that the Trump administration completely botched their response to this.
Pam Bonnie did, the DOJ did, the FBI did.
Trump did.
And now it's gone from that to saying that the people who want the files are somehow stupid for being Democrats or for pairing Democrat talking points, which is nonsense.
This point shouldn't be a partisan issue.
We should want the truth, regardless of who implicates.
If it's a left-wing person that gets caught, so be it.
If it's a right-wing person that gets caught, so be it.
We want the truth.
It shouldn't be a left-wing, right-wing, but just a common sense person issue about this.
And I'd be okay if they said, like, because I believe initially that there's no files, but they themselves said there is something there that they're not telling us.
So I think it's appropriate to vote with Massey and to go and let us see who votes know on that and then get the evidence that a whole thing and find that.
Sorry for jumping in, Chief, but isn't that the government co-sponsored by Roe Connell, the Democrat congressman as well?
Correct.
Yes.
The resolution by Connor and also by Massey, I think it has seven co-signers at this point or co-signatures at this point.
So it's good.
I hope it gets passed.
Or Massey was talking about this recently and mentioned that theoretically House leadership could go and say there are no more resolutions of that nature.
They could go and pull different types of stunts, but it require about 218 or 200 or some amount of votes to go and pass that new bill or the new change or Hatton House rules.
So we need to look and see who's opposed to this being released versus who supports it being released.
And it's very telling given the direction the administration that it's just like there's no coordination, no communication, and there's something there that initially I didn't think existed, but now I want to know what it is.
Regardless, if it's a Democrat hoax or conspiracy, I think we all deserve the truth and we should hold the truth.
Uh, or sorry, want the truth to get the accountability from the Trump administration, from the DOJ, and FBI, and anyone else who has any part or any bad role in whatever happened with Epstein because it's a big mess.
And one more point, I'll leave it on the plane here.
Um, calling the people who were OG Trump supporters MAGA stupid for want Epstein files is the dumbest thing he could have done.
Many people voted for Trump because they want transparency, they want accountability, they want to investigate bad people.
That is something that should be common sense.
And him calling people stupid, it's a big no-go.
And that's why 60% of people approved of Trump's handling of Epstein files versus 83% of people who disapproved them.
So it's very telling.
It's bipartisan.
No one likes what he did.
No one likes his handling of it.
We need the files now.
And it's not right for Trump to call people stupid for wanting these files to be released.
Stefano, let me just show one document that shows that this is not a Democratic thing.
So, right here, everybody is the document dated 9-18, 2008.
Okay, we're still got Republicans.
This is the Acosta document.
This is the FBI deal with Epstein, where Epstein has also provided information to the FBI as agreed upon.
So, part of his deal in 2008 had nothing to do with Democrats, had everything to do with Acosta.
And at the very least, he became an informant for the FBI.
I'll leave it there.
And I just want to say something to Josiah's point: like, what type of documents are you looking for?
I mean, remember before X became Twitter, you recall the conspiracy theorists.
If you're saying, oh, people's accounts are being throttled, or there's shadow bans, or the government's not involved behind the scenes.
But then, what did the Twitter files reveal?
Right?
I mean, if you weren't a complete naive moron, right?
If you weren't living in an MSNBC like Fox News bubble, you knew that they were shadow banning accounts.
You knew that the government was entangled with the social media, with the social media companies, and so much so during COVID.
If you look at the Missouri v. Biden lawsuit, which I know was kicked down by the Supreme Court, I'm going to get all legal aspects of it, which is now Murphy v. Missouri.
But it was revealed that the federal government was having backdoor communication with the social media companies and they were going through and flagging posts and saying, hey, take this down, take down RFK's post, you know, demonetize this person, kick off this other person.
So, yes, we want to see these files.
The whole thing, oh, do you want to see the child porn?
No, nobody wants to see the child porn.
That's not what we're talking about.
But can we see financial records?
Who's paying Jeffrey Epstein?
Who's he paying?
Like, again, where's the money come from?
I think those are the documents that we want to see.
The gentleman before was just talking, Jason was just talking about Alex Acosta.
Where are his emails?
I think I saw something on Mike on Mike Benz's X account that Alex Acosta's emails just apparently are deleted.
Can someone ask Pam Bondi, can someone ask Trump at one of these meetings, hey, can we see Alex Acosta's emails?
So I think these, so these are the type of things that we want to look at to peek underneath the hood and see what's really going on.
And if I could just jump in there, I mean, the question I have for the influencers who are pushing this, imagine if you just hound this issue for the next, I don't know, six months, nine months, whatever, years.
What happens if the things that you really want to have access to, you get access to them, and there's just nothing there.
And that doesn't mean there never was.
It just means, is this the place to concentrate our efforts in a world of scarce resources, energy, and attention?
Is this the thing to lock in on?
There are other ways of holding power to account.
I, for one, do not want Israeli influence inside of my government, as I do not want any foreign influence.
Mark Levin, when he meets with Donald Trump, is acting as an unregistered agent of the Israeli government.
We know that.
Jeffrey Epstein has been dead, as far as we know, for six years.
So why not address the real problem of institutes like the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, which is essentially an arm of the Likud party in Israel, influenced in our politics?
That's where we should concentrate our efforts.
It doesn't mean there never was anything with Epstein.
I'm open to everything.
My point is, in a world of scarce resources and attention, I want to lock in on getting real policy wins.
And I just don't see the upshot of chasing after this.
Can I address the Israeli thing?
I saw everybody on muting at the same time.
I was like, wait, let me jump in.
Hold on, hold on.
Let me do this.
Let me do this.
Let me go quickly to, because Dave was the one when he was like, do we really want to spend the most money?
And your head was like, oh, yes.
Yeah.
So I'll go to you.
And then I'll go to Ben.
And then I'll go to Steve Mike.
Bear with me.
Dave, go ahead.
Yeah, no, I actually think, Josiah, what you laid out there was pretty fair-minded of you to talk about how you are resistant to Israeli influence in government.
But we know Epstein has had Israeli associates.
You know, he had the prime minister and the chief of Mossad living with him for prolonged periods.
This is maybe the way to do it.
And yes, this is the hill I do want to die on.
This is a sex trafficking ring that included some of the most powerful people in the world.
And there isn't enough answers for the public after Trumping it up.
You also were right, I think, that Trump actually didn't make this the centerpiece to his campaign.
He did talk about it, especially on the Lex Friedman podcast.
And he, you know, even gloated about, hey, a lot of prominent people went to that island.
Thankfully, I wasn't one of them.
But it was his subordinates.
And ultimately, he had the discretion of placing some of those very subordinates, like the attorney general, like the FBI director, like the deputy FBI director, in power.
Israeli Associates and Power Placement00:02:40
And this is getting immense pushback, not only from his base, but also from dissident leftists that you may hate them on every other issue, but they wanted to get to the bottom of this too.
And, you know, I'm not partisan in this regard.
I want to find out the truth.
And yeah, this is the hill to die on for a lot of people, including myself.
So that's just what I think.
Ben, go ahead, and then I'll go to Mike.
Yeah.
And I'm not trying to pick on you, Josiah.
I'm just like, I'm curious, like, what policy wins.
Everybody pick on Josiah.
I'm kidding.
I'm not trying to do that.
I really am not.
But like, keep mentioning like policy wins.
And this is bothering me because, you know, like Trump has controlled all three levels of government multiple times.
And they have the opportunities to do so many things, such as even recently abolish the National Firearms Act.
You know what I mean?
In this last bill, they had the opportunity to completely get rid of it.
They didn't.
In fact, the last time he was in, he banned bump stocks.
And like last time he was in as well, he added almost $7 trillion in debt to our, you know, our national debt.
And then he also dropped more drone strikes than Obama did, but in half the time.
So like, I understand that interesting data for you based on that.
President Trump, since he's assumed his second term in office, has conducted more airstrikes around the world than Biden did in his whole four years of office.
That was 100%.
100%.
But what's really dangerous about us not knowing, we elect people and we should hold them accountable, right?
But what's really dangerous about not knowing what the government's doing when we rightfully should have that ability is that just recently they also did the whole Palinter agreement as well, which gives him direct access to your data, which means that they can take anything that you want that they want and they have all this information that they could possibly use to use against you.
And like, this is extremely dangerous grounds to tread on because, you know, I don't know, the whole, like, Obama did the whole, what was the NSAA thing where basically, you know, they can, you know, do all that.
But ultimately, this tied with the Patriot Act, tied with some of Obama's policies, this gives them whatever the hell they want.
And if they find something on you, they can hold you as long as they want with no charges being brought against you.
Please Consider This00:02:55
Ben, here, let me jump in real quick.
You asked about policy wins.
I just checked ChatGPT and then clicked on the links it gave me.
The Big Beautiful bill has reduced the tax stamp for short barrel rifles, suppressors, and then one other thing, down to $0.
That's a win.
It was $200 before.
Now it's zero.
You know, last week, they changed the rules.
Now you can wear your shoes through the TSA.
They edited it from abolishing the entire thing to only giving us like a little crumb.
Okay, it's more than what we have.
That's a win.
It's more than a bomb.
Hold on.
Let's do this.
Wait, Hold on.
Chief, I'll go to you in a second.
I know I said I wanted to go to Mike, but let me just, sorry Mike.
Give me a second.
I'll go to you next.
Let me go to Stephen for a second.
Again, I think this is Stephen.
I've said this a million times.
I'm going to say it again.
I've never seen so many libertarians in one place.
I'm going to say this every live stream.
Again, Libertarian National Convention.
Let's do it here.
I'll host.
Let's get this rolling.
It smells in this room or something.
So go ahead, Stephen.
Yeah, so, I mean, you know, first off, I'll use one of the government's favorite lines against it.
If they've got nothing to hide, then, you know, we should be able to see what they're doing.
They should have nothing to fear.
So I think Massey's bill absolutely or its resolution should be passed.
It would put all this to bed and we'd be able to find out once and for all if there's anything there.
I think a lot of libertarians in our camp, I know, voted for Trump.
And I can tell you, like I've said before, they're very disappointed.
You know, many of them voted for Chase Oliver, too.
But the ones that went to the Trump camp, or at least were willing to hold up their nose and support Trump this time around, are coming back extremely disappointed because, you know, where are the major wins?
I mean, Trump promised he would resolve the war in Ukraine within 24 hours.
And as of this week, we're sending 17 Patriot missile systems over to Ukraine, which the Russians aren't very happy with.
He's actually saying that he's encouraging deep strikes into Russia, crossing it another red line, bringing us closer to World War III.
We've bombed Iran.
We're currently still in skirmishes over Syria and supporting the Israelis there.
We've essentially told the Syrian head of state, which is an ex, which is a Taliban member essentially, that we're recognizing their government.
It's just so many things have just, I just don't see the wins.
And the Republicans control the executive branch, Congress, and the judicial branch as well.
And so they couldn't even pass the Hearing Protection Act and the short act and said they had to reduce it to a permission slip.
So instead of spending $200 on a tax stamp, I still have to get mommy and daddy government's permission to register my rifle.
I mean, these aren't real wins.
These are concessions.
That is going to wrap it up for part one of this latest debate on the Epstein saga.
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