The Ivermectin Warrior and the Indictments That Change Everything! MSOM Ep. 767
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Today, we're going to explore the idea that we possibly live in a banana republic now that Trump has truly been arrested, indicted, and charged with the Espionage Act.
But what did we just go through during COVID-19?
A biomedical tyranny like no other.
To break that down today, we're going to have Dr. Pierre Corey and Zach Payne join us to make sense of the madness.
After this, go with Donald Trump is facing and is it right to charge him?
Brian, good morning.
Great to be with you.
Two things I think are both true at this point.
First, if the allegations are true, and there's lots of indications that they are, President Trump had classified documents where he shouldn't have had them.
And then, when given the opportunity to return to me, he chose not to do that for whatever reason.
That's just, Brian, you talked about me having classified documents.
I handled thousands and thousands of them over my time in Congress and then as a CI director and Secretary of State.
I suppose we can all make mistakes and get them to the wrong place, but when somebody identifies that, you got to turn them in.
And so that's just, that's inconsistent with protecting America's soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines.
And if the allegations are true, some of these were pretty serious, important documents.
And so that's wrong.
Here they are.
The knives are out.
The true colors are being shown.
And Mike Pompeo joins Bill Barr, John Bolton, and others basically saying it's an open and shut case.
Trump is guilty.
This is not a witch hunt.
What do they all have in common?
They were part of his administration.
And I think it's time that we have to take a step back to understand how we got in this situation in the first place.
And Trump needs to look in the mirror.
You had Michael Pompeo, who was the ex-head of the Central Intelligence Agency, moving into the Secretary of State position under Trump, being a yes man.
In fact, after the election, assuring the public, don't worry, we're going to get the right guy in office.
Everything's going to be okay.
This is a guy who's been on the record saying as Central Intelligence Agency head, he lied, he cheated, he stole.
There were entire courses on it to a crowd that cheered him as he said it.
So what's going to happen now?
There are so many people in the conservative media right now saying, no worries.
He's beat all these other things before.
But now he has the other side of the coin, not only rooting against him, but on television every day, telling the public he's in big trouble.
Bill Barr, also not your friend, also CIA, also a long time deep stater that has said on the record, Trump is toast.
If we allow this to happen to what I believe was a duly, duly elected president twice, to go to jail under false pretenses when under any state of the imagination, these documents that they're telling you could put our nation in peril is absolutely ridiculous.
They overclassify everything.
It's clear these documents were for his upcoming library.
Trump wanted to show his best sides.
Therefore, he took what he thought were his best documents, and he had every right to do so.
But that's not what we're being hammered with now.
Equivalent Spyware Scam Demic00:02:56
And that's not what we're going to be hammered with in the future.
I promise you.
It's going to be more Bernesian talking points like the ones we heard over the past several years, accompanied by massive censorship.
And there was nowhere where that became more apparent, not only in this country, but around the world, than what during the COVID-19 nightmare, when readily available, cheap medications were not only being demonized, they were essentially being criminalized so that you could not save lives.
Well, there was one person out there among many that started to speak up about a drug called ivermectin.
And on the flip side, we're going to talk to that person about recent developments, where we are in the middle of 2023, what we can do to protect ourselves against the next scam demic or virus that the authoritative sources say, hey, we don't have a right to our own medicine.
Dr. Pierre Corey will be with us after this.
It's Making Sense of the Madness.
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He is one of the very few people that stood up to the establishment and tried to save as many lives as possible during the COVID-19 nightmare that we all lived through.
And he tried to do so with readily available medications, not only such as ivermectin, but also inhaled steroids such as budesinide.
It's a pleasure to welcome Dr. Pierre Corey.
Lessons from the COVID War00:14:31
Dr. Corey, let's start from the beginning.
How do you get involved in being the guy that gives testimony about these drugs?
Yeah.
Hey, Jason, thanks for having me.
You know, it was interesting.
So I'm a pulmonary and critical care specialist.
And, you know, when COVID broke out and the pandemic was coming, and, you know, I saw the images from China and Italy and then Seattle and New York.
You know, I understood it.
This is a pulmonary and critical care disease that was really enveloping the world.
And I don't know, I'm at the peak of my career.
I'm 50 years old and it's my specialty.
And so myself and a few colleagues, we got really inspired and motivated to try to figure this disease out.
And from the get-go, we started studying treatments.
And I'll say, not only for the world, but even for ourselves.
I mean, we were scared because we were going to be on the front lines.
And we started studying different therapies.
And, you know, the first thing that we did is we came up with a hospital protocol.
And we knew that corticosteroids were life-saving.
And so we were, our first protocol was centered around corticosteroids and blood thinners, which later was actually validated and became standard of care overnight.
But we were promoting it for months before they did their studies.
We did that at a time that all the international and national healthcare agencies around the world were saying don't use corticosteroids.
And then, you know, like you just mentioned, you know, a few months later, we were following all the trials, all the data around a number of different therapies.
And we discovered a data signal around ivermectin.
And that's when kind of our lives totally changed, because once we had identified a cheap, widely available FDA-approved drug that was wickedly effective at treating this disease, we came under attack.
And, you know, my life has been transformed since then.
I mean, I've lost three jobs in the pandemic.
My academic career is over.
You know, what I've discovered is that we launched ourselves into a decades-long war on repurposed off-patent drugs.
I mean, the pharmaceutical industry, that's their Achilles heel.
Their whole business model is dependent on promoting pricey new patented medications, things like Paxlovid and Melnopirvir, which are literally jokes of medicine.
I mean, they don't work very well at all.
I mean, Molnopirvir has already been proven to not work.
Paxlovid might have some efficacy, at least in the variant that they tested it in.
But, you know, they make billions off of those drugs, whereas ivermectin does not present the possibility of these insane profits.
And by the way, Jason, it's not about ivermectin.
Although, you know, I use ivermectin as a case study in my book.
It's really about all repurposed drugs.
But it's, it's about, like what you said, butesinide.
Hydroxychloroquine is as big a story as ivermectin.
I mean, that was also a very effective drug.
And what those medicines underwent were these massive disinformation campaigns by the pharmaceutical industry.
And they both underwent the same treatment, which was trials that were designed to fail and then promoted across all high-impact medical journals, the media, you know, telling people it's dangerous, it won't work.
And I just want to say, Jason, the last three years were really, they're really distressing to see what was happening.
I thought we were bringing forth good, pragmatic, scientific, rigorous analysis of data and providing good guidance.
And what happened to us was truly astonishing.
What happened to you was criminal and it was part of the post-truth world.
Let's be honest about it.
You know, you talked about these repurposed drugs.
Well, a lot of people aren't aware that for some time before COVID, many of these repurposed drugs were being used in cancer treatments.
Yet that's whispered and not promoted.
Why it's not profitable?
And you mentioned other corticosteroids.
There were brief hints of dextromethasone.
But as soon as that got popular, and that's a cheap steroid, maybe not as good, but maybe effective vitamin D, vitamin C, a good immune system.
Where they really began to go over the top was where they said natural immunity no longer existed in their push for these hate and lie shots.
You know, they sold those as a vaccine when they were mRNA and vector-based technology.
They told everybody they were quote unquote safe and effective.
We're finding out that is far from true.
They alluded to the fact that they would stop the pandemic, aka transmission, never designed to do that, Dr. Corey.
And now we have this report coming out that it was $420 billion in COVID scams, the vast majority of which they say are people scamming the system, when in fact it's a $4 trillion scam by the establishment.
Do you go into that into your book, The War on Ivermectin?
So, the short answer is no, because I really wanted to focus.
But I will say what you just mentioned, Jason, I think the book using ivermectin as a case story and everything that happened.
And, you know, I guess I hate the word conspiracy.
It's not a conspiracy.
To me, it's actually a description of the system that we live in and work under.
I mean, you can see the system doing what it does the way it was designed.
And so, like, if you read my book, everything that you just said becomes totally reasonable because I really lay out like in a deeply detailed, almost case study.
And the book is really not just about ivermectin.
It's about, it's also almost a biography of everything that's happened to me and everything that I did in COVID because I was involved in a number of issues around COVID besides ivermectin.
And, but, but no, you're absolutely right.
I so I don't go into that issue specifically, but I explain how that can happen.
And, you know, if you, if, if you want to talk about it in a general way, if you look at what happened, it's it's almost like this playbook or model, which is release a virus, instill fear, you know, instruct agencies and authorities to do certain things to gain control.
And that control involves control of our budget, our legislature, and the amount of money that flew out of the government for all sorts of things.
You know, it was all somehow rational under this, and I'm using air quotes here: public health emergency.
And so that kind of business model of like release virus and instill fear and then, you know, gain control allows them to do everything that you just said.
And so I think my book would be a case study for how that happens, but no, I don't go into that specifically.
Well, you know, you just said it twice, and I think that's really important.
You said release the virus.
And unfortunately, the two narratives that you're allowed to have-the one that was pushed by the establishment-this was a natural virus.
It was zoonotic, probably climate change, Dr. Corey.
But the other one that you had to go with was leaked from a lab in Wuhan, China, not a bioweapons attack that was distributed around the planet.
Despite the fact that Chinese authorities accused the U.S. government of releasing it during the Wuhan military games, not saying that happened, saying the accusations were made.
We know at least in two to three other facilities, we had several types of these viruses, including Chapel Hill here.
We know about the Eco Alliance connection, and there's a lot of evidence out there that COVID did not emerge in January and was in the United States as early and New York, especially as October and September.
What are your thoughts on that?
I mean, my thoughts are I agree with everything you just stated, which is the evidence and the data that's come out.
You know, first of all, the idea that this was a, what is it, a wet market, you know, some sort of zoonotic.
I mean, that was already disproven very early on.
Now, obviously, everything's a conspiracy theory and a controversy, but, you know, the day that I learned that this wet market was literally like 300 yards from the one lab in the world that was studying like genetically modified coronaviruses.
I mean, what are the chances of that?
So, I mean, I already thought that was absolute cartoonish and a lie.
But since then, we've had immense amounts of data.
So the genetic analyses of the virus, you know, show sequences of DNA that are just not possible in a natural event.
And so we know this was lab engineered.
There's tons of evidence.
You can see Fauci and his colleagues, all of their activities in the wake of the release or leak of this virus.
And then even yesterday, so Matt Taibbi, right, one of the top journalists, the one who's kind of leading the Twitter files, they now have data showing that the first person to die in the world of COVID was the scientist in charge of studying the coronavirus from the lab.
He got sick and died.
So to me, what I find interesting about that is that it seems more suggestive of a leak, like an accident rather than a release.
That's the issue that I'm not, I haven't fully decided whether it was willfully or purposefully leaked or it was an accident.
I don't think it matters because everyone in the world knows that the gain of function research they were doing was highly dangerous and had these kind of consequences.
And how they covered it up and what they did to pretend that, you know, this, this was not a lab engineered accident.
You know, there's a wealth of data around that.
So, I mean, this was man-made.
It was created.
It was a catastrophe.
It was a catastrophe.
Well, I'll say this.
I want to talk about that cover-up and the establishment paperwork they've now put on it.
It's not the government.
It's just Philip Zelikow and all these media personas that are so concerned with us.
We're going to talk about lessons from the COVID war and much more on the flip side of this break.
is Making Sense of the Madness.
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We are back.
It's making sense of the madness.
I want to shift gears a little bit with Dr. Pierre Corey on this latest lessons from the COVID war.
Now, it wasn't put out by the Biden administration.
You know, it was the concerned journalists and establishment figures that said, we just didn't have the right response this time.
We probably needed to throw more money, more tests out there, more censorship.
And it's headed by Philip Zelikow.
For those that are unfamiliar with Philip Zelikow, he actually oversaw the 9-11 Commission report, which many people like myself think was a whitewash and a cover-up of the greatest order.
What are your thoughts on this latest push to kind of extend and maybe even enhance what they did during the COVID period?
You know, Jason, it's as absurd as anything else we've seen.
This kind of attempt at trying to explain this as maybe a series of mistakes is absolutely absurd.
I mean, the evidence, if you look at COVID, right?
So if you look at the work of David Martin, right, who has traced the long history of genetic modification of viruses, of trying to weaponize and bioengineer viruses, it goes back decades, and especially in the last decade.
So we knew that they were doing what they were doing.
Then, if you look at the simulation exercises, Event 201, before this COVID breakout, everything that was going to happen was already planned.
And so to try to put out a document saying lessons we need to learn when they knew what they were doing the whole time, I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous.
I don't even pay attention because everything was planned.
And by the way, I'm a physician, right?
I don't, I'm not an expert in political science or sociology or anything like that.
I mean, when COVID started, Jason, you're going to laugh at this, but like, I literally was a New York Times reader.
I read it every day.
Why We Knew It Was Planned00:15:24
I believed everything it said.
I thought if you wanted to know really what was going on, you read the New York Times.
I believed in the high-impact medical journals.
I thought the eight health agencies were about public health.
And everything that I've learned in the last three years has transformed me.
I mean, the public health agencies are completely captured and are working at the behest of the pharmaceutical industry.
If you look at every policy that was omitted or issued during COVID, you just have to ask yourself one question: What would a pharmaceutical company want to do?
And there you have your policy.
And you know what's interesting, Jason, is you mentioned this issue of natural immunity.
And so I want to tell you that in my transformation, or I would say my awakening to how things really are, because again, I was very trusting and naive.
I had an implicit faith and trust in the institutions of society.
And I would say one of the most damaging or most impactful days of COVID was the day that I saw that they canceled or disappeared natural immunity.
I was shocked.
I couldn't believe what was happening.
And that was the most disturbing day of my life because I'll tell you, when the vaccines rolled out, my colleagues who were internal medicine specialists and they had huge panels of patients, they immediately, when their patients went to them for the vaccine, they immediately said, well, let's do a blood test for antibodies.
Or they would ask them, have you had COVID before?
And obviously, if they had antibodies or had COVID, they were recommending against the vaccine.
But then all of a sudden, the FDA, in one swoop, they put on their website this little notice that the FDA does not, there's no data to support the checking of antibodies or avoiding people who've had COVID to vaccine.
They were just saying, vaccinate everybody.
It doesn't care.
And I knew right then that the fix was in.
There was something deeply, deeply wrong with what was going on.
And I would say from that day, I became extremely suspicious, very concerned that this wasn't about controlling a disease.
This was about something else.
You know, so much to break down there.
Let's start with the absurdity of natural immunity aligned with the fact they also told us that the flu disappeared for a year.
The numbers were staggering.
It was at where it said over 400,000 hospitalizations on the average in this country.
And as of February of that year of 2021, they had 169, not 169,000, 169 on the record.
That was a red flag when you had even the WHO coming out and saying that.
You know, you mentioned the New York Times.
It's funny.
I've been featured in the Times a few times, always attack pieces.
But I actually got to do their daily podcast.
And, you know, they always try to get you to kind of give yourself up and let them have editorial control.
But I always have a rule with the New York Times.
I say, listen, here's the deal.
I'm going to tape everything.
I promise not to put anything out if after you put your piece out, you come on my show for half an hour.
And they did it.
And they took their tongue lashing.
They have a bigger reach than me, but I think the truth is more important.
And then you talk about the decades-long research and development of these things.
I often cite the fact that the mRNA partnership with Moderna began with the Defense Department, who overtook this whole thing via Operation Warp Speed all the way back in 2013.
And then in 2016, Moderna patents a drug.
You talked about the sequencing of the virus that is a cancer virus that has, or I'm sorry, a cancer drug that has a 12-sequence DNA nucleotide identical to the COVID-19 virus, clearly showing this is an engineered virus.
How do we establish these truths with the masses and not only establish the truth with the masses, get some kind of accountability in this very corrupt system that you've witnessed firsthand?
I mean, Jason, now that question you just asked, I mean, now you're, now we have to talk about what I think is the proximate cause of, and I don't want to say, sound dramatic or overstating it, but I literally think that censorship and propaganda are the proximate causes of the deterioration of our society, our democracy, the life that I've known.
I will tell you that I think the world that I think I lived in up until COVID was not actually the world I was living in.
I mean, I've learned some certain things about history and how things really work from COVID because it really has awakened me and exposed me.
But, you know, what you're talking about, you know, how do we get this?
How do we get the truth out?
How do we get people to really engage around exactly what is going on?
What is happening?
What is the true data?
Open debate, transparency is impossible.
And, you know, if I'm getting upset, I mean, I've lived through three years of unrelenting censorship and propaganda.
I mean, I am a physician.
I'm an expert at COVID.
I have lots of insights and things that I've learned and I know how to treat it.
None of my patients have died.
And I'm not alone.
I have a huge network of doctors.
We know how to treat this disease.
And we knew how to treat it before Paxlovid and Molnapirvir.
And it's one of my life's greatest sadnesses to see the world and so many millions dying when there are effective treatments and the inability to get that out.
I mean, you know, I was interviewed once actually by Matt Taibbi, you know, who's doing the Twitter files long ago, maybe two years ago.
And in his review of me, I didn't think it was the best.
I don't think he really understood what was going on with ivermectin at the time, but he called me the ghost of the internet, meaning everywhere I went, every podcast or interview that I did, I was trying to get the word out.
The videos were being demonetized, taken down off of YouTube.
I mean, the censorship was unrelenting.
I mean, if you talked about ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine or anything bad about vaccines, I mean, you got disappeared.
I mean, there are algorithms out there that are so powerful.
And the sadness is that it means that the most of society is left with a really narrow, selective and manipulated presentation of the truth.
And society cannot thrive in that kind of situation.
I think now I realize like the health of society really is dependent on true and accurate data of the world.
And that's not what's happening.
And what's really disturbed me the most is I'm used to the censorship and propaganda around COVID and the lies around COVID.
But now I see it on almost every issue facing us.
I mean, the ridiculousness of the narrative around Ukraine is so absurd.
You know, the censoring of all this really troubling data around the Biden's activities with Ukraine and the, I mean, I could list a very long list.
I mean, climate change.
It's unrelenting narratives that you only presented with a certain set of data.
And again, now, Jason, I want to be clear.
Like, now I'm outside my late, right?
I'm a physician.
I'm an expert at COVID, but now I'm commenting on wider topics.
Dr. Corey, I will just say what I've learned in COVID applied.
You're 100% right.
This is the great narrative, the great push.
And if you oppose it, the authoritative sources not only try to discredit you now, which they did in the past.
And by the way, you mentioned Matt Taibbi.
You know, he's gotten a lot better.
He did a hit piece on me 16, 17 years ago for Rolling Stone.
Just want to throw that out there.
So, you know, yeah, you've gotten better, Matt.
But, you know, I wanted the documents too.
I'd love to see the Twitter files.
I'm not the biggest fan of Elon Musk.
And they even give us the heroes we're supposed to worship.
The bar is so low.
Free speech is now the bar on social media.
That's a pretty low bar.
It's not really freedom of speech because we still will censor you for the most grotesque speech or hate speech or what we deem that.
And then even if we don't deem it hate speech, there's not freedom of reach.
The algorithms are still there.
The backdoors to intelligence agencies are still there.
And the former intelligence agency officers are still there embedded in all of these Trojan horse civilian systems.
And that's why it's important to have books, to have physical copies of things.
So let's just shift back to your book for this final part of our segment.
It's been a pleasure.
And I would imagine that you also talked about the only treatments that were being alive allowed.
Remdesivir and ventilators, not ivermectin.
That is a criminal enterprise unto itself.
What do you talk about that in the book?
Yeah, I mean, so, I mean, the title of my book, right, it's called The War on Ivermectin.
The subtitle is The Medicine That Saved Millions and Could Have Ended the Pandemic.
And, you know, for me to write a book with that kind of title, I mean, you don't just say that.
I mean, it's a deeply referenced book.
Like I said, it's part biography because, you know, even before we kind of quote unquote discovered the efficacy of ivermectin, you know, myself, my nonprofit organization, which is called the Frontline COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance or FLCCC, you know, we had been involved with numerous aspects.
I, you know, I called airborne transmission in April of 2020 when the CDC and the WHO were literally saying that this was not an airborne transmitted disease.
The entire explanation for how COVID affected the globe is the fact that it could be transmitted simply through the air.
This wasn't this droplet, six feet social distancing, mask nonsense.
Literally, if you were in a room with someone with COVID, you could get it.
And so we've never had such a highly transmissible virus.
I couldn't believe that public health around the world were not calling attention to this fact.
You had so many super spreader events.
Anyway, so in the book, I actually detail a lot of the things that I was involved in, understanding the nature of the pulmonary disease that they were landing on ventilators and how to treat it.
And then I went into ivermectin.
And like I said, you know, I think of this book as really, or one of the hearts of the book is a case study for how they employ disinformation.
And in the book, I mean, I define what disinformation is and I use an article which was published in 2017 from the Union of Concerned Scientists.
And the article is called the Disinformation Playbook.
And it outlines the tactics that all industries around the world, the tactics they use when science emerges that's inconvenient to their interest.
And all of the tactics, they're named after American football plays, the fix, the screen, the diversion, the fake.
And, you know, once I discovered that article and I learned what everything suddenly made sense.
I mean, after my testimony around ivermectin went viral and suddenly, you know, it was pretty remarkable event, right, that happened that I gave this testimony and suddenly it seemed like the whole world was talking about ivermectin.
But nothing made sense, Jason.
I mean, I gave that testimony and I just went, underwent unbelievable attacks on me, my character, my reputation, my integrity, my organization.
I saw endless news pieces around the world just saying that it, you know, it's something to be debunked.
And I had so much science and data showing its efficacy.
Nothing made sense to me.
But when I read the article, The Disinformation Playbook, it was like a light bulb went off, like a click.
Suddenly I was like, that makes sense.
And when I read about the tactics, I said, I saw this today.
I saw that yesterday.
And really ever since, I would say I'm an expert on how disinformation is practiced.
And that's different than misinformation, right?
That's what I'm accused of.
That's probably what you're accused of.
But disinformation is very purposeful.
It's willful.
There's an objective.
And they had to destroy any knowledge of efficacy around ivermectin because had that knowledge become widespread and known around the world, you know, me, the idealistic, you know, I was going to say curse dip, dip, you know what I'm saying, liberal, you know, thinking that, you know, good information would help us all.
They had to attack that because it would have really upended everything.
It would have destroyed the vaccine campaign.
How many people would have come up for the vaccine if they knew that there was a highly safe, highly effective drug to treat COVID?
That's only one of the reasons they had to destroy the knowledge of efficacy.
But also the competing antivirals and the monoclonal antibodies, remdesivir.
You know, I say in the book that never in history in all of their disinformation campaigns around repurposed, you know, off-patent drugs, which has been going on for decades in cancer, cardiology, psychiatry, never before has one single medicine presented such a grave threat to their profits and other objectives.
And I really outline with a lot of detail because, Jason, I'm going to finish here and tell you that, you know, once I became an expert on the use of ivermectin in COVID, I literally was given a front row seat to this entire disinformation campaign.
And once I knew what disinformation was and what was happening to ivermectin, I made a commitment.
This is over two years ago, that I was going to document everything they do and I was going to write about it.
And so my vision and idea for the book started literally once I realized what was happening.
And I put a lot of effort into that book.
It's deeply referenced and researched.
But I will tell you, if you read the book, you're going to understand how the world really works and the control of our agencies and media and really our science.
I mean, one of the most unpleasant discoveries is how captured our entire system of medical sciences is.
I mean, pharma runs that game.
You know, what appears in the journals is what they allow to appear.
I 100% agree.
I mean, earlier you alluded to the demonizing of hydroxychloroquine.
It gets published in The Lancet.
It's really a fake study.
It gets retracted.
Doesn't matter.
It was on every single paper in the front row, letting you know.
Dr. Corey, it has been a pleasure.
We got to get you on for a full hour.
The war on ivermectin is the book.
We're definitely going to get you back.
I want to thank you again because you lived it, brother.
You absolutely lived it.
You saw it firsthand and you do know the playbook.
5th 2024 Mission00:02:42
And unfortunately, it's a very dark one.
On the other side of this, we're going to explore even more darkness.
The fact that it looks like we are, in fact, in a banana republic.
We're going to talk about that fact with Zach Payne.
We're going to talk Trump, the indictments, Pompeo, Barr, Bolton, and more.
It's Making Sense in the Madness.
I read a few people wrong, and that's my fault, but I learned from that.
And I think I'll be a more effective messenger as a result of that.
That'll free me up to do the next chapter, the next stage of my evolution, which is OMG, which is decentralizing journalism.
And sometimes things happen for a reason.
That's my goal.
That's my mission.
And I didn't ask for that mission.
I never thought that would be my mission.
It just has become my mission.
And I'm excited about it.
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They want to take away my freedom because I will never let them take away your freedom.
It's very simple.
They want to silence me because I will never let them silence you.
They want you silent.
And I am the only one that can save this nation because you know they're not coming after me.
They're coming after you.
And I just happen to be standing in their way and I will never be moving.
On November 5th, 2024, justice will be done.
We will take back our country and we will make America great again.
Thank you.
God bless you all.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Great job.
Thank you.
Bold words from a man with a big target on his back.
And I believe more indictments to come.
Can Teflon Don stay out of prison at this point in this very, very apparent banana republic?
Prison Threat Looms00:14:48
Here to discuss that is Zach Payne.
He's the host of Red Pill News, also a part of Badlands Media.
How are you today, Zach?
I'm excellent, Jason.
Thank you very much for having me.
So what are your thoughts here?
Obviously, we have the Eugene Carroll case.
He loses in portions there.
It's the first time we've seen him take even a small L.
Then we have what I do believe is the box's hoax.
Obviously, he took these documents because he wanted them as part of his library.
They probably make him look very good.
And we already know that things are overclassified.
There's absolutely nothing in there that could possibly cost anybody's life.
That's Johnny nonsense and a joke.
However, it's espionage act time and possibly more indictments via the Georgia election case.
Can he win?
Can he stay out of jail?
Can he get the Republican nomination?
Well, I think anything is possible.
I think that it's a foregone conclusion.
Donald Trump will once again be the Republican nominee for president in 2024.
Whether he does that outside a jail cell or inside a jail cell, I have no idea as to which direction it's going to go because literally we are in such unprecedented territory right now.
And I think that many things that people thought could never happen here in America, such as the indictment of a former president, not only at the state level, but at the federal level, that would have been unheard of.
The very idea that that could occur would have been so foreign to so many people.
But as it's happened now, it's not wholly unsurprising as we've seen what they've been willing to do over the last several years.
I mean, from the moment he announced his candidacy, they have thrown everything that they could possibly think of into his way to try to stop him and thwart him throughout his administration.
So now I see this as the last desperate gasp of a failing system that sees Donald Trump as an existential threat to their future.
And if by some chance they do end up putting him in prison, there is nothing that will preclude him from being able to stay the presidential candidate for Republicans in 2024.
And even if they somehow remove him from the ballot, I think that what we're seeing is good for Donald Trump in the eyes of the people.
And I could very easily see a wide-scale write-in campaign that would still end up electing him president.
If he becomes president again, he can just unilaterally pardon himself or anybody else.
But beyond that possibility, I think that he really does have a good shot when it comes to arguing these cases, specifically in regards to the question between the Espionage Act or the Presidential Records Act.
I think that the Presidential Records Act takes precedence over this.
We had the Clinton Sox drawer case that was decided by Judge Amy Berman Jackson, who currently sits on the Supreme Court.
They found in that case that the president has a unilateral power to decide what will become declassified, what can be part of their personal records versus what has to go to the National Archives.
So, this is definitely going to take some time, and it may be adjudicated in a number of venues.
But I think that President Trump truly does have the upper hand.
Well, I think that's a lot, man.
I look at this situation right now, and first of all, the Espionage Act is over the top.
But you see so many members of his former administration coming out against him on the other side of the break will play Bill Barr's reaction.
And to me, Bill Barr is just another side of the coin of John Brennan.
And they're helping now to run this media relations operation to at least not allow him to have that nomination.
Now, if he has the nomination, there is a chance.
However, have we fixed the infrastructure of corruption from 2020?
I understand that unless there's another emergency, and who knows there might be just prior to the election, we won't have mail-in ballots on a mass scale, but we certainly haven't changed the system of the voting machines themselves, Zach.
Yeah, no, I agree.
I think that that's probably the biggest threat to our ability to put him back into office.
There are limited efforts taking place all across the country.
There's a number of cases that I think could decide whether or not we're going to have a free and fair election system come 2024.
The case with Cary Lake in Arizona, that's not over and done with.
And I also think that it's fairly powerful that the U.S. Postal Service Inspector General just came out and admitted that the whistleblower information from 2020 about the ballots being trafficked from Pennsylvania to New York or New York to Pennsylvania actually happened.
So I think that what's most important is allowing this information to seep into the minds of the American people.
Because if we're going to change anything, then it has to be a demand from us.
We have to force the hands of the people who are not truly representing us in Washington, D.C., or even in our state houses.
Because without the pressure from the people, these people have no will to act.
Well, I absolutely agree.
And the problem is that we have not had any accountability, but let's make Trump accountable to himself because so many of these people, such as John Bolton, who says, and I actually agree with Bolton, that Trump thought these were cool, where I disagree, he suggests that he should go to jail from it.
Again, I think that these are documents, again, that show him in the best light that he wants to represent his, you know, his history, you know, his legacy.
And obviously, that legacy should include the 2020 election being stolen.
And I love a hero's story that in 2024, somehow, some way, he gets back in there.
Is there any reprise for these traitors amongst the obvious Democrats and operatives who have gone after him now criminally and falsely in a treasonous behavior?
Or are we going to get more of the same?
Who should his administration be and what actions need to be taken if we get this Hail Mary?
I think there has to be reprisals.
This must be in order to be successful.
Donald Trump 2.0, a second term in office, has to be very different than what we saw the first time around.
You know, it was almost as if he was hesitant to bring these people to heel and call them to task because he didn't want to have to deal with future reprisals.
But they've shown themselves to have absolutely zero moral authority in this situation.
They're willing to do anything and everything to ensure his ultimate destruction.
And that would end up with the destruction of the American people and our republic in general, I think.
These people have to pay.
They have to be held to account.
And if President Trump is successfully re-elected, he's going to be in a position of significant power.
As far as his administration, it has to be comprised of people who are not part of the current unelected bureaucratic state.
I mean, these people truly are the deep state, the people in the administrative branch of government and all these various federal agencies who have unions and don't have to worry about orders coming down from the president.
All they have to do is slow walk things, stop these decisions from being implemented, and effectively they can put the brakes on his whole agenda.
But I think that these people must pay.
And that's not just simply because they've committed crimes and they have turned their backs on America, neglected their oath, but because it needs to happen if America is going to heal, if they're going to believe that we have a system that is free and fair, that we have an equal application of justice under the law.
I mean, we clearly don't have any of those things right now.
And I think that these people have to go to prison.
Well, I'd like to see it.
Zach, we're going to talk about that and much more on the other side of this break.
It's Making Sense of the Madness.
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What about this chief argument that comes up for the president's allies and his legal team that this should have been handled under the Presidential Records Act, not this Espionage Act charge and other federal statutes that were used here?
Well, it started out under the Presidential Records Act and the archives trying to retrieve documents that Trump had no right to have.
But it quickly became clear that what the government was really worried about were these classified and very sensitive documents.
I was shocked by the degree of sensitivity of these documents and how many there were, frankly.
And so the government's agenda was to get those, protect those documents and get them out.
And I think it was perfectly appropriate to do that.
It was the right thing to do.
And I think the counts under the Espionage Act that he willfully retained those documents are solid counts.
Now, I do think we have to wait and see what the defense says and what proves to be true.
But I do think that even half what Andy McCarthy said, which is if even half of it is true, then he's toast.
I mean, it's a very detailed indictment, and it's very, very damning.
And this idea of presenting Trump as a victim here, a victim of a witch hunt, is ridiculous.
Yes, he's been a victim in the past.
Yes, his adversaries have obsessively pursued him with phony claims.
And I've been at his side defending against them when he is a victim.
But this is much different.
He's not a victim here.
He was totally wrong that he had the right to have those documents.
Those documents are among the most sensitive secrets that the country has.
They have to be in the custody of the archivist.
He had no right to maintain them and retain them.
And he kept them in a way at Mar-a-Lago that anyone who really cares about national security would churn at it.
He's not.
Zach, what do you think about Bill Barr's response?
I feel like Bill Barr, much like all of the other establishment deep state war hawks, they smell blood in the water.
And I've never truly trusted Bill Barr other than to be exactly what he is, which is a spook.
Okay.
I mean, he's been a usurper at Trump's side this entire time.
You know, to me, when I see Bill Barr and all of these other talking heads on mainstream media and I read the indictment, the only thing that I can think of is the overwhelming sense of hypocrisy that is being broadcast from their mouths every time they open it.
He's talking about the way these documents were stored.
Okay, Mar-a-Lago is essentially a fortress.
All right.
The Secret Service was there making sure that people weren't sneaking onto the grounds and that the documents were not simply out there on the front lawn for people to come and peruse through.
Joe Biden kept documents of the same type in his UPenn office in Chinatown, in his garage next to his Corvette, in his private study.
I mean, they were strewn everywhere.
So, what separates the actions of Donald Trump from the actions of Joe Biden?
And I'll tell you this: Joe Biden wasn't president.
What separates that?
Because I'm going to tell you: here's the deal: I think they've used that as a back door to get rid of Biden last minute and maybe install a newsom or somebody else of their liking because they don't want a second term or administration from him.
And it's all a ploy not to get Democratic debates.
And they can use that same excuse, only they're not going to prosecute old, good old Joey B, right?
He's done too well, but let him step down Nixon style and let it go away.
Donnie T, the bigot, the racist, the white supremacist, the insurrectionist, he's going to prison, brother.
In the last few minutes, what do you think happens in the run-up to what should be Republican debates?
Are we going to have Republican debates?
Are we going to have selective Republican debates where Donald Trump is not allowed?
Will we have separate ones where Trump and others are?
What are your thoughts there?
I mean, as it stands right now, I think that they're going to have to just allow them to proceed as normal.
If they shut down Republican debates in the same way that Democrats have already said that they're not going to have debates, I mean, it just continues to prove our point and Donald Trump's point.
You know, it's funny, Bill Barr said, you know, that, oh, yes, he's been a victim in the past, but not this time.
Now, finally, they've actually got something that they can attack him for that's legitimate.
I just don't believe that.
And I don't think that the majority of the American people believe that either.
I think that we are going to see debates.
I think that Donald Trump will continue to rise in popularity.
Julian Assange's Failed System00:02:19
I think that as his ultimate point, that he is a target of this failed and corrupt system continues to be driven home.
More and more people are going to recognize what type of a nation we live in right now.
And that is a banana republic.
I mean, this is, you know, Colombia, Venezuela, Bolivia.
I mean, this is not the kind of thing that you would expect to see here in this nation.
We are supposed to be a nation of law and order.
And right now we have neither.
We just have the arbitrary implementation of various statutes and laws.
And it's all at the whim of whoever's in charge in Washington, D.C. You know, I talked a little bit about the accountability of Trump himself for kind of empowering these people that are now not even stabbing in the back, stabbing him in the front as expected.
But is there also an irony that, you know, he ran on loving the WikiLeaks and many expected him to pardon Assange?
He didn't, in fact, send Rohrbacher in and try to negotiate something that failed.
But his Department of Justice went on this, let's charge him with the espionage charges.
And now they're doing the same thing to him.
Is there not irony there?
I definitely think there is.
It's not lost on me.
You know, at the end of the day, President Trump, he's running the country, but he's like the CEO of America.
You've got all of these functions, subfunctions that have to be delegated to all of these departments, to your cabinet members, to the heads of these departments, and then mid-level managers below that.
So there's a lot of decision-making that's taking place in the background, and people are just delivering information to Donald Trump.
Yeah, I was disappointed at the way that the Assange situation was handled.
But how involved on a day-to-day basis was Donald Trump in deciding exactly how that was going to proceed?
You know, perhaps in the same way that these talking heads are coming to America and saying, you know, all of this information in these documents, damning major red flags for national security.
Perhaps they came to Donald Trump after they had already decided exactly how they were going to handle Julian Assange and they said, we have 100% evidence that Julian Assange was directly involved in violating the national security of the United States.
Guys Joining, Much Zach00:02:28
And this is the only way that we can do it.
You know, I mean, I don't know.
It's all up for conjecture at this point.
But yeah, I think there certainly is a level of irony.
And I ultimately believe that at the end of the day, he's going to be victorious.
Because if he isn't, then America's done for.
That's it.
Well, if he is victorious, one of the first things he needs to do is drop those charges, get him out of Belmarsh, and ensure that those charges will never come back.
Zach, it's been a pleasure.
Quickly tell people where they can find your stuff.
You can find me on Rumble at RedPill78.
I am also on the Foxhole.
You can go to my website, redpill78news.com, Twitter, truthsocial at redpill78, and I hope to see you there.
All right.
Thank you so much, Zach.
And thank you guys for joining us on another great Making Sense of the Madness.
Remember, we are here at AMP News Monday through Friday, 6 p.m. Eastern.
See you tomorrow.
Side Jab
Read This Book!00:00:18
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