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July 25, 2023 - Sebastian Gorka

02:35:25

Sebastian Gorka FULL SHOW: Is Joe Rogan afraid of President Trump?

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	I'm curious if the White House and the President still stand behind his comment that he's never been involved and has never even spoken to his son about his business.
	I've been asked this question a million times.
	The answer is not going to change.
	The answer remains the same.
	The President was never in business with his son.
	I just don't have anything else to add.
	Well, that's not what you've been asked a thousand times, and it's not the answer that you've given a thousand times, because that is a different answer, cringe, as my friend Chris Blatt has rechristened you, Corinne Jean-Pierre, White House Press Secretary.
	Ooh, the heat is on.
	Welcome, dear friends.
	Greetings!
	You're listening to American First.
	With me, your host, Former Deputy Assistant and Strategist to the 45th President, and God willing, if we do our part, the 47th President of the United States, Donald J. Trump.
	Biden's in trouble.
	Big, big trouble.
	Do you remember back in 2019 in Iowa, Joe Biden was on the campaign trail.
	It's a little hard to hear, but somebody at the town hall asks him about his son's foreign business dealings.
	And man, did he get angry very, very quickly.
	Let's remind everyone out there, dear friends.
	Cut 4.
	You on the other hand, that's your son over there.
	He had a job and worked for a gas company that You had no experience with the Raster method.
	In order to get access to the puppet for the President.
	So, you're selling access to the President just like he does.
	You're a damn liar, man.
	That's not true.
	And no one has ever said that.
	No one has said my son has done anything wrong, and I did not on any occasion.
	And no one has ever said it.
	And you say you were doing anything wrong.
	You said I set up my son to work in an oil company.
	Isn't that what you said?
	Get your work straight, Jack.
	You're a damn liar!
	Get your words straight, Jack!
	Hey, Eric, was that the same town hallway afterwards he challenged that American citizen to a, what was it, push-up contest?
	He said something like, I bet I could do more push-ups than you.
	The guy was literally like 80 years old, over 80, and honestly, I think he could do more push-ups than Biden, honestly.
	But what's that got to do with having a corrupt son working for a Ukrainian gas company?
	I guess that's what we like to call projection and or in this case deflection.
	Deflection, yes indeed.
	So let's just map it out.
	Let's be precise.
	So in that cut he said, my son has never done anything wrong.
	Well, I guess the fact that it's today, isn't it?
	Today?
	I do think it's today that Hunter Biden gets his official slap on the wrist from the IRS, from the DOJ, the ATF, because of what?
	He didn't pay taxes!
	At least 1.2 million dollars worth of taxes in 2018.
	The fact that there's another five years of unpaid taxes that I guess have just disappeared.
	Oh, and he lied as a Drug addict on a federal background check for a handgun purchase.
	I think that's reason enough to say he's done something wrong.
	And then we have what?
	Again and again and again.
	We've played you the audio.
	He denied what?
	That he's ever discussed his son's business dealings with Hunter Biden.
	Never discussed them.
	That's been the narrative now for nigh on three years.
	But it's just changed.
	It's not that he never discussed them.
	Now it's something different.
	Let's listen to her again.
	Let's listen to how they literally picked up the goalposts and they've moved them.
	Corine Jean-Pierre on the new narrative.
	Let's play it again.
	Cut five.
	I'm curious if the White House and the President still stand behind his comment that he's never been involved and has never even spoken to his son about his business.
	So I've been asked this question a million times.
	The answer is not going to change.
	The answer remains the same.
	The President was never in business with his son.
	I just don't have anything else to add.
	The President was never in business with his son?
	But that's not the question.
	The denials to date have been what?
	Has he ever discussed Hunter Biden's business dealings?
	And explicitly again and again and again and again he said no.
	Never discussed them!
	Now it's suddenly what?
	He was never in business with his son.
	Why the shift?
	I think you know why.
	Because it's now incontrovertible That he did discuss his business dealings with his son.
	We've got the photographic evidence of Joe Biden, the vice president, the former senator, hanging out with Hunter Biden at Cafe Milano on the golf course with Hunter Biden's, let's use the polite terminology, business associates from the former Soviet Union.
	When's this story going to change again?
	Well, he wasn't very much in business with Hunter Biden.
	Is something gonna happen?
	Have you noticed Kevin McCarthy speaks differently in the last few days?
	Maybe it's since I came back from vacation.
	He's very gentle in his cadence.
	It's a little bit flowery, a little melodic.
	Maybe that's how he's trying to Hide the, what, the iron fist inside a velvet glove?
	Will there be an iron fist?
	Well, he's teasing something here on Fox.
	The Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy.
	Cut three.
	Well, it's interesting that the Biden family runs, if they say, a company but never had an office and shell companies to be able to pay through.
	But if they really ran it for foreign countries, why didn't you get money from France, from Germany, from UK?
	Why does it have to be from China, Romania, these countries that have real challenges
	and had problems going through?
	I believe we will follow this all the way to the end and this is going to rise to an
	impeachment inquiry the way the Constitution tells us to do this and we have to get the
	answers to these questions.
	This will rise to an impeachment inquiry?
	Is this a passive thing?
	You're the Speaker of the House!
	Hey Jeff, have you noticed there's his more kind of lilting lyrical voice?
	Is it just me?
	No, he's been doing that for a couple weeks now, I know.
	I've noticed that too.
	What is that?
	I don't get it.
	I don't know what it is.
	Is he trying to sound nice while being nasty, or what is it?
	Is it kind of like what was with Pelosi?
	She called the impeachment a solemn day or something.
	Remember?
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	She tried that.
	It's real serious.
	I don't want to do this, but we have to do it.
	Is he trying to adapt that policy, maybe?
	Do you think he's actually serious about it?
	No.
	You don't?
	I think they're going to push.
	Maybe they'll do it if they're forced to, but I don't think he wants to do it.
	It might be that so much stuff comes out that he's gonna have to do it.
	But I think he wants no part of it.
	Why do you think he doesn't want to?
	Because he doesn't want to go all that way.
	I mean, that's being a trailblazer.
	Do you really think that's what Kevin McCarthy is?
	No, no, no.
	Eric, give me your take.
	Yeah, I think... I thought maybe the voice mannerisms seemed like they've always been there, this kind of like up-talk to him, but it definitely seems more exaggerated in that particular video.
	No, no, but do you think he's gonna go there?
	It's hard to say.
	Because again, I think he's done some pretty good things.
	He's exceeded expectations.
	Otherwise he's fallen flat.
	So I can't say for sure.
	Hang on.
	Did Eric just say Kevin McCarthy has done some good things?
	Alex!
	I need an audio test.
	Did Eric say that?
	That Kevin McCarthy has done some good things?
	You did, yep.
	Oh my good lord.
	Write this down in your diary.
	All right, I want to hear from you guys.
	Call in.
	Oh my gosh, what happened to the call board?
	I just looked at it.
	It's like all full except for one line.
	Do you believe Kevin McCarthy?
	Is he going to do something in his la-di-da melodic voice or not?
	The number 833-33-GORKA.
	That's 833-334-6752.
	833-333-GORGON. It's 833-334-6752. Got some amazing guests for you today. Don't go anywhere
	for the next three hours.
	This is America First.
	If you enjoy this show, make sure you're subscribed to the one-on-one.
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	Thank you for having me.
	It's frustrating because do you want to be president?
	Well, you got to go through the guy who's sitting at 52% right now among the Republican base.
	Otherwise, get out of the race.
	Well, stop wasting our time.
	You know, you're not going to take them on.
	Then why are you in the game?
	Are you just waiting for the justice system, which you, which you demonize and belittle and berate to do the thing that you won't do?
	I mean, which do you want?
	You can't have it both ways.
	And the justice system is not going to deliver Donald Trump on your political platter.
	This is a...
	you you
	This is a...
	I you
	Hi, this is President Trump, and Sebastian is really a friend of mine.
	He's a great guy.
	He's been with me from the beginning.
	Listen to him.
	We all learn.
	All right, the phone lines, we've only got one.
	I haven't even mentioned it and it blew up.
	I guess people just want to sound off on the news of the day.
	We will get to your calls this hour, I promise you, so don't go anywhere.
	John Ray in Livermore, Victor our buddy in Maryland, Matt in North Carolina.
	There's one line open.
	Sound off.
	We've got a poll up on the website.
	We put it up yesterday.
	It's very simple.
	It's about the breaking news, right?
	It's about whether or not President Trump Should participate in the first debate for the GOP candidate?
	Should he pull back, let the, you know, the minnows argue it amongst themselves and then come in?
	I want to hear from you.
	So go to SebGorker.com and tell us, answer the poll, should President Trump participate in the first debate or not?
	That's S-E-B-G-O-R-K-E-R, SebGorker.com.
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	864-644-1900 myphdweightloss.com All right, let's listen to the former chair of the RNC, Mike Steele.
	We're going to get some analysis from our first guest here.
	Sometimes They say the quiet part out loud.
	Listen to what Mike Steele, a former conservative, says about Donald Trump and the judicial system.
	If you blink, you'll miss it, but it's very revealing.
	Cut it!
	It's frustrating because, do you want to be president?
	Well, you got to go through the guy who's sitting at 52% right now among the Republican base.
	Otherwise, get out of the race.
	Stop wasting our time.
	You're not going to take them on.
	Then why are you in the game?
	Are you just waiting for the justice system, which you demonize and belittle and berate, to do the thing that you won't do?
	I mean, which do you want?
	You can't have it both ways.
	And the justice system is not going to deliver Donald Trump on your political platter.
	It's just not going to work that way.
	And so the reality of it is, you either want the job or you don't.
	And if you do, that means you're going to have to sound a lot more like Chris Christie than the way you're sounding right now.
	You're expecting as a rhino, as a never-Trumper, I'm going to use Mike Steele's words here, for the DOJ to deliver Donald Trump's head on a platter?
	Is he John the Baptist?
	Is that what we're talking about?
	Let's talk to the preeminent expert on the weaponization of the judiciary in America.
	She's the author of the book January 6, Get It Right Now, How Democrats Use the Capitol Protest to Launch a War on Terror Against the Political Right.
	Our good friend, Julie Kelly.
	Welcome back to America First.
	Hey Seb, thanks so much for having me on.
	What's with the weird Charlie's Angels music?
	What do you mean weird?
	It's me reliving my childhood in front of millions of people.
	We've got Wonder Woman, Charlie's Angels, Kojak, the streets of San Francisco.
	We've got Blue Thunder, we've got Airwolf.
	It's my bloody show and I'll play the best music out there.
	Thank you very much!
	It's the first time I heard it, but I dig it.
	I love Charlie's Angels.
	Good!
	You can be Farrah Fawcett for the next nine minutes.
	Yes, I will.
	Okay.
	So we need to talk about, you know, the impending news, another indictment about to drop, etc, etc.
	But I gotta get your reaction to what Mike Steele said when he said, what are you rhinos waiting for?
	Are you waiting for the DOJ to do your work for you?
	Julie, doesn't that tell you everything you need to know?
	Well, I mean, for once, Michael Steele is right.
	The former RNC chairman, now never Trumper, and I think tied to organizations funded by left-wing tech billionaires like Pierre Omidyar.
	So he's in the same boat as Bill Kristol, etc.
	He has been for years.
	But look, he is right.
	The Justice Department has been and continues to go after Donald Trump.
	At this time, they really do have him in their crosshairs.
	And this is not just related to the classified documents indictment that was handed down last month by Jack Smith.
	And that is proceeding forward in the Southern Florida courtroom of Judge Aileen Cannon.
	But now knowing that special counsel Jack Smith is going to pull the trigger on DOJ's months long investigation, criminal investigation into Donald Trump and his associates for the events of January 6th.
	That indictment we could expect any time.
	I'm hearing it could even be this week, the grand jury in this matter.
	Meets on Tuesdays and Thursdays in the DC federal courthouse.
	So he might be asking them to sign on to a bill as we speak, or even on Thursday.
	So Michael Steele is right.
	Everyone knows that this department of justice is finally going to get their, what, seven year long crusade, their dream come true of Donald Trump, again, arrested potentially in handcuffs and, you know, facing years in prison for both of those cases.
	And what is it going to be?
	You know this the best.
	You've been in those courtrooms.
	You've written them up for American Greatness.
	You've written them up for your book.
	What is the charge going to be?
	Are they going to, you know, resuscitate this charge that was never used before, but was used against the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers?
	Is it going to be incitement to violence?
	Is it going to be conspiracy or sedition?
	If you had to predict right now, based upon the fact pattern of the last two years, what is your expectation, Julie Kelly?
	I think the first charge will be obstruction of an official proceeding, and this is this 1512c2 said that you have talked about.
	More than 300 January Sixers have been slapped with this felony.
	This is a post-Enron statute that dealt with tampering with evidence and witnesses, not interrupting A congressional meeting in the nation's capital.
	It's meant for when there's a criminal case going and somebody's shredding the files at the headquarters, right?
	That's what it's about.
	That's right.
	And this did finally go to the appellate court and this three-judge panel led by a Biden appointee, by the way, gave what one of the judges called a splintered ruling.
	So it's very cloudy.
	The applicability of this felony count, and now it is headed, one defense attorney has filed a petition before the Supreme Court.
	I expect other defense attorneys to do the same.
	But look, this is a felony that has resulted in numerous convictions and plea agreements.
	This is, for example, what Jacob Chansley finally pleaded guilty for and was sentenced to 41 months in prison.
	So it's not just the prison time that's attached to this felony.
	I'll tell you something even more terrifying, and that is that judges have denied bail, have denied release for January 6th defendants, simply accused of obstruction of an official proceeding.
	So there's precedence there.
	But conspiracy charges, what you just said, this incitement to violence, violating people's civil rights.
	Election interference, conspiring to commit election fraud, because we know that Jack Smith is interrogating people in states like Georgia and Arizona, even Michigan.
	We'll break it down.
	We'll talk about Judge Cannon's timing decision as well.
	Our first guest of the day is Julie Kelly.
	Follow her at julie-kelly2, author of the book January 6th.
	Get it right now.
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	The truth, it's how we will win.
	We'll be back in a moment with Julie.
	On the timeline that Canon released last week.
	Thank you.
	So I have a pretty lengthy piece and sub stack and I don't want to compete.
	What's your sub stack?
	Declassified with Julie Kelly.
	That's the name of it.
	Can you put that on the Chiron?
	Declassified with Julie Kelly.
	Sure, let me get the URL.
	Thank you, Eric.
	So it's a pretty lengthy piece.
	In fact, Mark Levin read the whole thing on air last night because it goes through not just this case, but also the special master case.
	And we could talk about this if you want, but she did appoint a third party because she does not trust this DOJ.
	And Jay Bratt, the counterintelligence chief in particular, who also was involved in that lawsuit before Jack Smith was appointed.
	She's tough.
	She is very tough.
	She is very smart.
	She understands what she's up against here with this DOJ.
	And I think she set that timetable that May 2024 to force DOJ's hand because as you know, they will drag their feet on discovery and all sorts of matters as long as they possibly can.
	and she set forth, it was like a two and a half page, very detailed schedule about what DOJ and
	the defense have to follow leading up to that May 2024 trial date. But yeah, yeah.
	We've got to dissect that.
	Do you have time, Eric, to make a buffer out of the article on Substack?
	Let me see.
	The most recent one?
	Well, this one about Judge Cannon and the timing.
	The one that Mark read out.
	That would be great.
	I'm working on it, yeah.
	The URL is declassified.live, by the way.
	For Substack?
	Yeah, I'm not sure if that's like a subset of Substack or something.
	I don't know how that works.
	I don't know why it says live.
	That's weird.
	It should say Substack.
	I'm looking at it right now.
	It's declassified.live.
	Let me have a look.
	How do I change that?
	You can just tell the guys at Substack.
	Do you have any contacts there or did you just do it yourself?
	I did it myself.
	I probably did something wrong.
	I can get them to fix it for you.
	Oh, thank you.
	Okay, on your Twitter it's...
	julikelly.substack.com.
	Oh, the title is declassifiedwithjulikelly.
	That's fine.
	And then the URL at the top is declassified.live.
	I wonder why that's the case.
	Yeah.
	Just in the URL, Eric, just put what it is on her Twitter, which is julikelly.substack.com.
	That's the easiest.
	julikelly.substack.com.
	Okay.
	Yeah, that's the easiest.
	All right, I'll check that.
	Okay.
	Wow, you're almost at half a million.
	I know.
	Nice.
	Well, thank you.
	You helped me get a lot of followers.
	Good.
	So I appreciate that.
	Totally.
	Very much.
	If we have time, can we talk about Grinnell?
	Please.
	All right.
	Good.
	All right.
	Wow.
	Nice.
	All right.
	Standby.
	40 seconds.
	Want to come in with something or no?
	No, I'm going to do my pillow.
	pillow. Alrighty.
	Thank you.
	Thank you for watching!
	On the side of the U.S. Constitution, America first!
	And she's got a Substack.
	I've just put her at the top of my Twitter feed.
	You've got to follow her right now.
	It is juliekelley.substack.com She's got almost half a million followers on Twitter.
	That's a big deal.
	Let's get it a half a million by the end of the segment.
	Come on, guys.
	Julie underscore Kelly two.
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	Now why am I surprised?
	I shouldn't be.
	In the break she tells me she has a long article about Judge Cannon.
	The new timing that has been released with regards to the president's trial on classified documents that, of course, Mark Levin, you heard of him, read out on air.
	Julie, help me out here, because I've been on vacation.
	I tweeted something about Judge Cannon saying, this is great.
	She's pushed it out to May.
	She's pushing back on some of the garbage the DOJ is demanding.
	And then I saw a tweet from Mark saying, this is a betrayal!
	She's doing it right in the middle of the, you know, elections.
	How could she do this?
	Who's right?
	Who's wrong?
	What's your take on the judge on this new timeline?
	I want everybody to read your article, but give us your kind of elevator pitch.
	Well, I hate to brag, but I did send my article to Rich, his producer, on Sunday after I saw some of Mark's tweets.
	And I said, You know, I've been on Mark's show several times and I said, hey, you know, I've covered this extensively.
	I have the court motions.
	I have the transcript from the hearing on Tuesday.
	You know, I just want to pass this along.
	And so when Mark read it last night, he kind of suggested that maybe he was changing his mind about his opinion.
	So my first reaction was the right reaction?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	So this is a good, this is one of the few good judges out there.
	Oh, she absolutely is.
	And I'll tell you something, I covered the special master case, and this was last year, when after the FBI raid of Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump filed a lawsuit seeking a special master, basically a third party, to go through the 13,000 pieces of evidence that the FBI absconded with that day.
	And Judge Cannon was extremely skeptical about the government's argument against getting a special master.
	She appointed one in September of 2022.
	Because the DOJ didn't want an independent party saying, what the heck are you doing with President Trump's passport, for example?
	They did not.
	And not only that, she gave extensive reasons why she was appointing a third party.
	And two of the reasons, Seb, she confronted Jay Brat, who was a counterintelligence chief for DOJ.
	Who is part of the initial Department of Justice investigation now assigned to Jack Smith's team after he was appointed in November of 2022.
	She confronted him directly about two things.
	One were leaks that were coming out of the investigation and he told her, Oh yeah, we know leaks are happening.
	We just don't think it's coming out of our office, but unfortunately that happens.
	And she sort of condemned DOJ and her motion for leaks that were coming out and causing irreparable damage to the president.
	That he could not defend himself against these leaks.
	And number two, she also called them out for the mishandling of privileged material early on in the investigation.
	The FBI and DOJ had to admit that what they later found out were privileged communications had been passed from the so-called filter team to the investigative team.
	Well, Judge Cannon busted Jay Bratt and the DOJ for that, too, and said, well, I know that you've admitted this, but you have no protocols in place to make sure it doesn't happen again.
	And you have not told me how anyone has been censured or paid the price for passing that along.
	She's very skeptical.
	She's got Jay Brett's number and she confronted him again in the hearing last week.
	She, in fact, denied a motion.
	Now, this is so unusual.
	And you know this because I've been covering this January 6 trials in hearings for two and a half years.
	These judges are nothing more than rubber stamps for this DOJ.
	So for Judge Cannon to deny a motion filed by Jack Smith seeking this restrictive protective order and saying you did not confer with the defense, which you're supposed to do, she is not tolerating any bad behavior.
	I urge people to read my article because it doesn't just address what's happening now.
	It goes back to this year-long history that Judge Cannon has with the DOJ, and that's exactly why they did not want this case ending up in her courtroom.
	All right, and I think she's actually moved the court to a county courtroom that's actually further out of Miami, which is more, you know, conducive to a positive jury pool.
	I got one more question to ask you.
	We're out of time.
	I want to ask it in the break on Rumble because it's about this Yes, I take it every single day.
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	reliefactor.com that's 800-500-8384 reliefactor.com reliefactor.com ...and how his whole story is collapsing.
	Right.
	So Sergeant Canale, one of the January 6th celebrity police officers, he was featured during the very first January 6th Select Committee televised hearing where they all gave their sob stories about how they were almost killed by terrorists and insurrections on January 6th.
	So he's he's strung the story out for now two and a half years.
	He was on medical leave, I assume paid medical leave by us, the federal taxpayers.
	Because Capitol Police is a federal law enforcement agency.
	Well, lo and behold, yesterday, I'm looking at a separate video posted by an Epoch Times reporter about the really grisly circumstances of Roseanne Boylan's death.
	And here I see Officer Ganell, and he is walking around unimpaired.
	You see his hands.
	He said that his hands were severely injured and bleeding.
	His hands are totally fine.
	He said he had shoulder surgery.
	He couldn't work anymore because he can't move his shoulders.
	He had full shoulder mobility.
	He's taking his gear off.
	He's picking things up.
	He's moving things around.
	Not one little indication of any sort of injury whatsoever.
	And so this is just another lie related to January 6th and the reason why the Democrats, the Justice Department, Capitol Police, and of course most of the media did not want the full vetting.
	Of all the thousands of hours of surveillance video.
	So is Epoch also going through the video?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Joe Hanneman has access.
	And I urge people to look at his piece, too, because it is very alarming how DC officials and the media have lied and covered up what happened to Roseanne Boylan, who was killed by police that day.
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	All right.
	Thanks for staying on.
	That was superb.
	Thank you, my dear.
	Do you miss the crumpets with clotted cream and strawberry jam?
	We're going back in September.
	We loved it that much.
	So yeah.
	Good.
	Gin and tonics.
	That's what I'm going to do.
	Gin and tonic.
	It keeps the malaria at bay.
	That's right.
	That was great.
	Thanks, Maggie.
	All right.
	God bless.
	Bye-bye.
	Bye-bye.
	Do you want a quick biting clip from right now?
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Grab the top one.
	Picture's to play.
	Yep.
	He talked about how he ended cancer.
	He ended cancer.
	Yeah, as we know it.
	Cool.
	Uh... alright.
	You're welcome.
	You're welcome.
	♪♪♪ You're listening to America First with Sebastian Gorka,
	former strategist to President Donald J. Trump.
	to President Donald J. Trump.
	Here's something most Americans haven't heard about.
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	All right, we're going to go to your calls, but I'm, this is dangerous business.
	Jeff has got a cut that's fresh, and I haven't even heard it.
	Eric, should I play a cut I haven't heard?
	I think history has taught us that we should trust Jeff's instincts, so I say let's go ahead and play it.
	All right.
	It's big breaking news from Joe Biden.
	Play cut.
	I said I'd cure cancer.
	They looked at me like, why cancer?
	Because no one thinks we can.
	That's why.
	And we can.
	We end cancer as we know it.
	Jeff, did he say he cured cancer?
	Well, look, we have political disagreements with him, but if he did something like that, I mean, you gotta tip your hat to him.
	Yeah, but he actually said it, didn't he?
	Yeah, as we know it.
	He cured cancer.
	Alright, send that to John in Florida.
	We gotta get that posted right now.
	The sheer insanity, the senility of the man.
	Let's go to another John in South Carolina.
	The call board is absolutely full.
	Let's walk down the numbers.
	Number one!
	Dr. G, I know that you're not from this part of the galaxy and neither am I. So let's talk about UFOs.
	Okay, there's a hearing right now on Capitol Hill about... I thought they were now aerial phenomena.
	I thought we don't use UFOs anymore.
	I wanted to let you take that.
	Actually, what they are is they're unidentified anomalous phenomena because they can go in outer space and underwater.
	I like UFOs.
	I like flying saucers.
	Well, I like the whole idea and I'm curious as to exactly So when I was a kid, I was in Scotland at Loch Ness and I didn't see Nessie.
	are going to be. What is your take on what these things are and have you ever seen one
	and would you let me describe what I have seen in the past?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when I was a kid, I was in Scotland at Loch Ness and I didn't see
	Nessie. I did force my dad to row me out in a little rowboat into the middle of the loch
	and like a petulant little child, you know, age six, I said, let me row! And of course
	I dropped the oar into the loch and my dad had to strip down to his skivvies and jump
	into a Scottish lake in the freezing, freezing conditions and get the oar back. In Scotland
	at some point, I think I did see something in the sky. Who knows what it was? What are
	they? I've done a whole episode of my new TV show, Conspiracy Chronicles, that shows
	Should be out later this year.
	Dedicated to it.
	Here's my take, John.
	There's something, but we don't know what it is, and there's not enough evidence that's incontrovertible of what they are.
	That's the weird thing.
	A lot of people saying they saw things, but there's no green men on, you know, iPhone video saying, I come from Venus.
	So the jury's out, my friend.
	What's your experience?
	Why are there no sonic booms when these things move?
	I've never heard anybody mention it.
	I saw something that had to accelerate to probably Mach 20 from a standing start.
	Whereabouts were you?
	Where did you see that?
	I can tell you the exact date, place, time, almost the longitude and latitude of where it happened.
	It was on October 28th, 1973.
	Hang on, hang on.
	You're not old enough.
	I was 3 in 1970.
	How old are you, John?
	I'm 66, Doctor.
	No!
	You could deny 20 years off that.
	You sound like a young buck.
	Yeah, well, I know.
	I decided that I was going to stay 27 years old.
	So I'm still 27 years old.
	Alright, so where were you in 73 when you saw this?
	I was in South Carolina outside a little town named Hodges.
	I'll give you the really brief version of this.
	And we were coming back from a trip where my first cousin had been buried that day, and we took my aunt and their two sons just on a brief road trip, and we were coming back from that.
	I looked over on the right side of the road, and there were five objects about the size of Toyota Sequoias.
	They were not any bigger than that.
	They were flying about 40 feet off the ground.
	The front section was a red orb And it was rotating counterclockwise.
	The back section was a white orb rotating in the opposite direction.
	So it was a sphere in two halves?
	Right.
	And the front one was substantially smaller than the rear.
	They were about 40 feet off the ground and they were making no sound whatsoever.
	They were moving parallel opposite us about 100 yards away.
	And I presume it wasn't just you that saw them?
	Well, I'm the one who remembers them in detail because I have close to a photographic memory.
	And on some days it's just photogenic.
	But I asked everybody if they saw them, and they looked over, and they said, yeah.
	And I kept trying to... My mom was driving, and I was in the front passenger seat.
	And I said, Mom, pull over and let me look.
	And she said, no, no, no, no.
	I'm not doing that.
	I said, come on, Mom.
	They're not going to hurt us.
	And they just made no noise.
	And somebody said, they're helicopters.
	And I said, those things are less than 100 yards away.
	Those things are 40 feet off the ground.
	Yeah, you hit them.
	They would be beating us to death if they were helicopters.
	And are these the ones that accelerated at, like, Mac 20?
	Well, no, I'll get to this one.
	You've got 30 seconds, dude.
	You've taken a whole segment because this is fascinating.
	I know, but this is worthwhile.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Okay, here's the thing.
	I saw a triangular object that looked like a pool cue rack, you know, like on a pool table.
	Rounded triangles.
	And this one of these was just seen, I think, at 29 Palms last week.
	And it had little white orbs around the rim.
	You don't think that's like Aurora?
	You don't think that's the replacement for the SR-71?
	No, I don't know what it is.
	I'm not saying these things are extraterrestrial.
	I don't know what they are.
	I have no idea what they are.
	But anyway, what I saw was actually seen in Ohio within two days of when I saw it in South Carolina.
	Stay on the line.
	Stay on the line, John.
	I want more details.
	If it was seen in another state, there's got to be articles about it.
	Give the date and the details to Jeff.
	And that was... I don't think we've ever given a whole segment to a call, but I love this stuff.
	We might have to have an hour on UFOs at some point.
	And I think we reward John with one of our new t-shirts.
	Hey!
	Groomers, leave our kids alone.
	We'll continue with your calls.
	Don't go anywhere.
	Ray, Victor, Matt and Alex, I'm Sebastian Gawker coming to you live from the reliefactor.com studios.
	Reliefactor, pain relief that works, pain relief that's real, pain relief that is liberating half a million Americans across the country right now, me included.
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	Do it today!
	You know it makes sense.
	Don't wait any longer.
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	Write that number down.
	800-500-83-84.
	Yeah, of course we go out with the Star Trek music nicely done.
	Write that number down. 800-500-8384.
	Of course we go out with the Star Trek music nicely done.
	Reliefactor.com I think it would be pretty fascinating.
	I mean, the footage they've been releasing for like the Navy jets and whatnot, that's kind of interesting.
	That stuff is interesting.
	That stuff is interesting.
	There's got to be something going on there.
	Titles?
	Titles, titles, titles...
	Oh, I want to post that call.
	Okay.
	Dr. G and Caller John on UFOs.
	Sorry, say that again?
	Dr. G and Caller John on UFOs.
	Got it.
	Oh, perfect.
	I thought I saw one for about three seconds.
	And then you realized that it was Chris Christie.
	I was Well, I didn't think, I'm just like, what is this?
	I came up to my house, the power was out.
	Uh-huh.
	And I was just looking, like, it's all, I have all, like, glass in the back of my house.
	Yeah.
	And on the water, it looked like there was a reflection, like, something huge, like, a mile long, hovering over the water.
	Then I took a step to the right, it looks even bigger.
	What?
	Then I take two steps to the left, and it looks like it's ten feet wide.
	And I look right out my front window, I see, because the power's out, the electric company just pulled up, and that huge light, they're on the pole fixing it.
	It was the re, it was the, but the reflection, and I just, I'm like, this is why these morons think they see UFOs.
	Because it was so crazy what it looked like you saw.
	30 seconds.
	I was excited there for a moment.
	Like Jeff's about to have the bombshells.
	If I saw one, I would discredit it anyway.
	20.
	Dr. Sebastian Gorka.
	That was fun!
	Did you enjoy that, Eric, our UFO segment?
	That's pretty great.
	It's a nice break from the usual political talk.
	Jeff, did you have fun there?
	No, I'm not a big fan of the subject.
	It kind of bores me.
	Gosh, alright.
	One down, one up.
	We'll take a private vote, the rest of the team offline.
	In the meantime, if you want one of our new Hey Groomers, Leave Our Kids Alone t-shirts, you know where to go.
	SebGorkaStore.com.
	Everything available there to support President Trump and to show your America First values.
	That's S-E-B-G-O-R-K-A-Store.com.
	SebGorkaStore.com.
	Waiting patiently in Livermore.
	Our good buddy in the tall grass.
	Hey Ray!
	Hey, Dr. G. First, I want to thank you for having a commercial break between me and John, because that's a tough call to follow.
	You mean you haven't seen multiple UFOs yourself, right?
	I see them on the Discovery Channel.
	You know, quick, did you see it?
	Quick, right there, did you see it?
	You know, so I see it on the videos.
	I'll talk about two things I've talked about before.
	One, caller John, and I've told you this before, the guy who used to have this time slot, Michael Medved, used to have Conspiracy Day once a month on the full moon.
	That's perfect Conspiracy Day stuff.
	Did you like that?
	Do you think that's a good idea?
	Should we re-resurrect that?
	One day a month would be good, you know, just call up, I saw Bigfoot, you know, I saw Skinwalker, you know.
	I just want to know about this Oak Island thing.
	How many bloody years can you milk it?
	It's one hole in the ground, guys.
	Can you, like, give up after, like, season 12, please?
	Well, no.
	See, I have a theory there, too.
	Bigfoot.
	Who is?
	You know, I have to say, I am a little partial to Sasquatch.
	is on Oak Island. Okay? He buried it. So once you get him, the whole thing comes together.
	Okay. You know, I have to say I am a little partial to Sasquatch.
	Yeah. And so I mean, I like Chewbacca. Sasquatch could be related. You never
	know. Okay, I'm gonna go sideways I met a guy at a coin club meeting.
	This isn't on the call board, and so this is very dangerous, Dr. G. You've got 90 seconds to be dangerous.
	OK.
	This guy said they already found the gold on Oak Island.
	They already have recovered it.
	They need to work out about two or three more years of TV contracts to pay for all of that expensive drilling and digging, therefore they haven't showed us that yet.
	And the reason I know this man was telling the truth, he told me he's been to Area 51.
	He's my contribution and I've actually done an episode on Area 51 as well and I guess in the next season if we If we're a success with our new show Conspiracy Chronicles then we'll have to do Oak Island.
	Here's the inside scoop, okay?
	I know the guys who make the show Oak Island.
	They don't need treasure to be rich.
	Those two brothers are already Very, very rich, thanks to what they have milked out of that TV show.
	But it was fun!
	Thank you, Ray!
	I'm Sebastian Gorka, this is America First.
	One hour down, what an hour it was!
	Next up we're going to have Lord Conrad Black, the one and only Miranda Devine, on the latest evidence about, you know, the corruption at the top of the country.
	And then a very special one-on-one with Chris Rufo.
	You don't want to miss a second!
	Stay with us here on America First, we'll be back in a moment.
	You You
	You This hour of America first starts right now on Salem news
	channel You
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	Welcome to the second hour of America First with me, Sebastian Gorka, your one-stop shop for all of the biggest topics of the news cycle today, without the bias of the mainstream media or the censorship of big tech, whether it's the culture war or educational indoctrination, the immigration crisis or gun control, or the threats to the Second Amendment.
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	♫ America First.
	MAGA-nificent.
	Welcome back, dear friends.
	Welcome back.
	In our third hour today, we'll have a one-on-one with Chris Ruffo, the man who's done more than most in America to identify the scourge of critical race theory and the ideology that's permeating the establishment.
	Tomorrow, if all goes well, we will have one-on-one.
	Vivek Ramaswamy, one of the potential candidates for the nominee for the presidency of the GOP, a man who is rising in the polls.
	Let's analyze that and so much more with our good friend, regular contributor to the show, the author of Donald J. Trump, A President Like No Other, Lord Conrad Black.
	Welcome back to America First.
	Thank you very much, Sebastian.
	So, I'm looking forward to discussing with Vivek his candidacy.
	Let me just, before we talk about all the other news regarding my former boss President Trump and what's happening on Capitol Hill and the investigations of the Biden clan, this latest poll from yesterday, this is Kaplan's strategies that Reflects very much what the Harvard Harris poll said on Friday.
	Stunning to me.
	I would love to get your take.
	President Trump is ahead 36 points.
	He is now standing at 48% approval amongst Republicans.
	Tied in second place We have Vivek and the governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis.
	Are you surprised by that result, negatively for the governor and positively for Ramaswamy?
	A bit, yes, in both respects.
	I personally have a good opinion of both of them, although I am myself an old friend and supporter of the former president, as you know, as you are.
	I have been surprised that the DeSantis campaign has frankly fizzled.
	And I don't understand it.
	I mean, he has been a good governor, he has a very strong case to make for himself, but he's not coming across as a likable person.
	He's not coming across as a man with a sense of humor, though I think he has one.
	And I thought he botched the comment on the spurious indictment of President Trump on the, you know, the Stormy Daniels nonsense.
	And I think he, frankly, in straight political terms, cooked himself with his six weeks period for an abortion in Florida.
	I mean, Florida is a state with a lot of elderly people and very High, ardently Roman Catholic population, but I think, and I myself am no admirer of abortions, but I think that is a position that the great majority of Americans would not approve of.
	But with all that said, I'm surprised he hasn't done better now.
	I may not get his name right, Ramaswamy?
	Yes, Ramaswamy Vivek.
	I've seen him interviewed many times, he's always impressive.
	And he speaks extremely well.
	His ideas are very sound.
	I have nothing but good thoughts about him, but he doesn't have evidently...
	I want to say this as gently as I can.
	He does not evidently possess a background that qualifies him to actually execute the
	office of president.
	It is, above all other things, the ultimate task of administration, I suspect, in any
	job in the world.
	And it requires a great deal of experience or an extraordinary amount of aptitude.
	But with that said, if he were ever the nominee, I think he'd be a strong candidate.
	But I'm glad to see him rising.
	It shows people responding to ideas and responding to the new face and completely debunking the theory that there's anyone left in the Republican Party or anywhere else in that country who's particularly concerned about race as a matter of qualification for the highest office.
	I think he's a good phenomenon, and I still think DeSantis is a good governor.
	Maybe he can Yes, indeed.
	his campaign and make more progress but as you know I'd be quite happy with the
	you know with the last Republican candidate. Yes indeed let's stay on a
	broader analysis of the Vivek phenomena because it speaks to what happened in
	2016 that well I think that we have somebody who like the president has
	never served in public office has never run for public office who has a
	background in biotech in business not real estate but you know both
	businessmen and this individual who actually admitted shockingly to I heard
	this yesterday on podcast Vivek Ramaswamy hadn't even voted on the
	Until 2020.
	Now he wants to run for the presidency.
	He's neck and neck at 20 points with a former congressman who is a governor.
	Does this speak to the success of President Trump in 16 and the apparent success of this non-politician right now?
	Does it speak potentially to a pattern whereby the populace It's just disinterested in machine politics and people who are politicians.
	I think it indicates, as the successful Trump candidacy did, that the public feels it has been let down and, on balance, underserved, if not poorly served, by the political community as a whole.
	A very large number of the public welcome a new face.
	I think there's some of that in the improbably high amount of support that Robert Kennedy Jr.
	is getting.
	Yes!
	Part of it is his family and part of it is that he's basically the only gay man in town apart from Biden.
	The Democrats know as well as the Republicans do that Biden is really not adequate.
	But there's still something, very much so, something With him, of the outsider, I'm not compromised by the muck of politics, you know.
	The French leader General de Gaulle had an expression, it was a very sticky fondue soup in France, called la gamouille, and he would just refer to all these politicians as, ah, they're dans la gamouille, you know.
	And I think that's how the public feels.
	All these other people are more or less just part of a system that they don't feel is working very well.
	So a refreshing outsider is a good thing.
	And thank you for mentioning Robert RFK Jr.
	How much of a... I mean, they don't want to have a primary.
	There is an issue with Biden's frailty now with the mainstream media even asking questions.
	Is RFK Jr.
	a factor at all in the next election?
	I think only if he gets an inordinately high amount of support in the polls
	To trigger someone more substantial to come in the example It's often been cited as Senator McCarthy Eugene not Joseph.
	Yes, Eugene McCarthy in 1968 but you know
	Lyndon Johnson could have been re-nominated and he might possibly have been re-elected
	And he was a very formidable man who'd done a great deal for civil rights and so on, and was a legend in the Senate, not just a man who got to be a committee chairman because of seniority representing a little state.
	You know, he was a very, very formidable man, but he decided that he just didn't have the answer to Vietnam, and so he left.
	But McCarthy did score quite well in the New Hampshire primary, and that brought in Kennedy, and then when Johnson with Hewitt brought in Humphrey.
	I mean, that's one thing Americans should remember.
	In that terrible year of 1968, when Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King were murdered and there were riots everywhere all the time, that one time or another, Lyndon Johnson, Hubert Humphrey, Robert Kennedy, Nelson Rockefeller, Richard Nixon, and Ronald Reagan were all running for president.
	and they were all qualified. But so to answer, I mean sorry to be so loquacious, but yeah I think
	he could be a a catalyst in bringing in a Newsom or someone like that. I don't think he's for real
	as a candidate himself. And your reaction to the spectacle last week when he was testifying in
	front of Congress that Kennedy was being lambasted and his credentials were being questioned by
	Democrats. Well yeah, well he...
	He's a Kennedy, but he's a bit of a renegade, and he is attacking the party establishment quite vigorously.
	I have to say, I have nothing against him at all, but some of the positions he takes are nonsense.
	The CIA murdered his father and his uncle.
	That's not a sane statement.
	But as I saw it, the complaints made, especially by that Democrat from, I think, Texas, was he?
	I forget.
	But, you know, that he was just quoting him, and Robert Kennedy saying, well, I was being misquoted or taken out of context.
	I mean, I think he has to answer those points, and I didn't think he did answer them very well.
	We're talking to the co-host of the podcast, Scholars and Sense.
	Please follow our guest at his website, ConradMBlack.com and at Conrad M. Black on Twitter.
	He's the author of a library, a veritable library of books, most recently Donald J. Trump, A President Like No Other.
	Don't forget, if you enjoy our long-form discussions, tomorrow it will be with Vivek, today it's with Christopher Rufo.
	Please subscribe to our podcast, it's absolutely free to you.
	Go to your favorite podcast platform, plug in my name, Sebastian Gorka, America First.
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	We'll be back with Lord Black after these messages stay on this channel.
	Thanks for watching.
	That's an easy one.
	The next one's a little bit longer.
	It's from Michael Steele, the former RNC chair, where he says something quite shocking about relying upon the DOJ to do the job of the establishment Republicans.
	Let's play this for Conrad now so he won't be hearing it for the first time.
	This is cut eight.
	It's frustrating because do you want to be president?
	Well, you got to go through the guy who's sitting at 52% right now among the Republican base.
	Otherwise, get out of the race.
	Well, stop wasting our time.
	You know, you're not going to take them on.
	Then why are you in the game?
	Are you just waiting for the justice system, which you, which you demonize and belittle and berate to do the thing that you won't do?
	I mean, which do you want?
	You can't have it both ways.
	And the justice system is not going to deliver Donald Trump on your political platter.
	It's just not going to work that way.
	And so the reality of it is you either want the job or you don't.
	And if you do, that means you're going to have to sound a lot more like Chris Christie than the way you're sounding right now.
	So he says there, you know, are you expecting the DOJ to do your dirty work for you?
	I thought that was quite, quite a, uh, quite a, quite a cut.
	Who said that?
	That was Michael Steele, the never Trumper, former chairman of the RNC.
	Oh yeah.
	Okay.
	And then we can use that as a jumping off point for your latest piece.
	For a never-Trumper, he sounds relatively sensible.
	But saying that the DOJ is doing your dirty work for you, that's... He's right, of course.
	Right, but the fact that he says it out loud is interesting.
	I wouldn't espouse Christie as any example to emulate, though.
	I mean, I think that man's completely ludicrous.
	But they're pushing him.
	I mean, especially the left.
	He's on CNN with regularity.
	Well, they love him.
	He's an articulate Trump-hater.
	Yep.
	Yep.
	Got titles?
	Oh, titles?
	Monologue, Julie.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Monologue.
	What was the monologue about?
	It was about the change in narrative, right?
	You got Jean-Pierre and then later the whole Kevin McCarthy thing, but that's more of an afterthought.
	Yeah, the Jean-Pierre thing.
	Why is the White House changing the narrative on Hunter Biden?
	And then Julie, what's a good one for Julie?
	The whole the trial date thing.
	Trump, document case judge.
	What's a good adjective?
	On the side of justice.
	Alright.
	50 seconds.
	You want to tee up Cut8?
	No, I'll tee up Cut8.
	First, I'm going to do Jean-Pierre, and then I'll tee them both up.
	And then I'm going to mention Conrad's article, and that'll be the whole segment.
	All right, 30 seconds.
	Conrad, stand by.
	Right, okay.
	Okay.
	the the
	you Thank you.
	The antidote to fake news.
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	The narrative in the White House is shifting ever so slightly, but it's significant.
	For nigh on two years, we've been told that the president never discussed business dealings with his son.
	Today, we have a different story.
	Now it's that they weren't in business with each other.
	Let's listen to the horse's mouth.
	This is the press secretary for the Biden administration changing the goalposts.
	Play cut.
	Curious if the White House and the president still stand behind his comment that he's never been involved and has never even spoken to his son about this.
	So I've been asked this question a million times.
	The answer is not going to change.
	The answer remains the same.
	The president was never in business with his son.
	I just don't have anything else to add.
	Lord Black, should we infer something here that for two years we've been told again and again and again even by the current incumbent that I never discussed my son's business dealings with him and now the verbiage has changed to the President has never been in business with his son.
	Is that significant?
	I think it is, yes.
	I think it's very significant and I think the significance of it is widely recognized and even from the slight bit I've seen slightly recognized in the habitual Biden whitewash media which you know just repeats there's no evidence of anything and that's that.
	I think the ground is shifting under them.
	i mean the weight of these whistleblowers coming forward and the peculiar treatment uh...
	by the fbi and the allegations about
	the special prosecutor white since so far i i think that whole thing is is is shaking and
	and and and uh... it's a bit of the other person uh... pretense that there is nothing there
	uh... is is on the verge of collapse and i think there's observable perceptible
	alarm in official circles.
	Now, I think that alarm is mitigated somewhat by the fact that I suspect the Democratic bosses who parachuted Biden in after he was left in the ditch in the primaries in 2020 can parachute him out again, and I think that's what they're doing.
	I wouldn't It wouldn't surprise me if they were somewhere lurking in the background feeding some of this, because I think that the Democratic bosses know that they can't go with this man again in another election.
	And then who's the candidate?
	Well, I think the same bosses don't want the present vice president.
	Right.
	I guess Newsom is the favorite, but if it was an open field, you would get He would get challengers to him and there are talented, attractive people in that party, but they would have to come out of the woodwork quickly and get themselves out in front of the public quickly.
	All right, let's talk about the other side.
	Sometimes, as the phrase goes, an individual says the quiet part out loud, maybe not realizing it.
	He is a Never Trumper.
	Your latest piece in the New York Sun is about the Never Trumper Brigade.
	In this case, it's Michael Steele, former chairman of the RNC, and he says something quite peculiar about the challenges to President Trump, or the challengers, and what they really want to happen in America.
	Michael Steele, cut eight.
	It's frustrating because do you want to be president?
	Well, you got to go through the guy who's sitting at 52% right now among the Republican base.
	Otherwise, get out of the race.
	Stop wasting our time.
	You know, you're not going to take them on.
	Then why are you in the game?
	You're just waiting for the justice system, which you, which you demonize and belittle and berate to do the thing that you won't do.
	I mean, which do you want?
	You can't have it both ways.
	And the justice system is not going to deliver Donald Trump on your political platter.
	It's just not going to work that way.
	And so the reality of it is you either want the job or you don't.
	And if you do, that means you're going to have to sound a lot more like Chris Christie than the way you're sounding right now.
	Quite a candid admission, if I do say so myself, Lord Black.
	They're saying President Trump's head should be delivered on a platter like John the Baptist by the Department of Justice and you should be doing your dirty work for yourself?
	Yeah, I think it's a double admission.
	First, in the point you just made, and secondly, in his taking up the cause of Chris Christie, who is, you know, basically a sour grape.
	I mean, he's an articulate, fluent, incessant Trump-eater, having been Trump's biggest booster and the first competing candidate to rally to Trump in 2016.
	You know, it's not for me to become too declarative about what his motives are, but I think it's generally reckoned that he expected something from the Trump administration, didn't get it.
	Now he's out on the warpath to show that being cuffed around as he feels he was is something that he has to show everyone can't be done with impunity.
	So he's just defaming the president, ex-president, at every opportunity.
	And he's effective at it up to a point, but he exposes the bankruptcy of Trump hate, which Steele is an exemplar of.
	So on the one hand, Steele's right to criticize those who are afraid to take Trump on, but on the other hand is suggesting that the sort of unlimited, wall-to-wall, unequivocal, with no exception, airtight hostility to Trump that That Christy personifies is going to get anywhere is insane because half the Republicans, you know, more than half the Republicans approve of Trump and approximately half the Republicans fervently approve of him.
	And if a former party chairman thinks that the way to take over that party and take it to the White House is to debunk and savagely attack at every opportunity, The only person who's led them to victory since George W. Bush.
	I don't wonder he's an ex-chairman of the party and he shouldn't be back.
	We're out of time but you do use a phrase in the first paragraph of your new piece in the New York Sun that I wish we could explore further maybe next time you're on.
	You use the phrase American prosecutocracy.
	That is in fact what President Trump is facing.
	Maybe today we have certain sources.
	Maybe tomorrow we have the new indictments to be handed down by Jack Smith against President Trump concerning January the 6th.
	The question I will leave for us to ruminate on until our next discussion.
	Can one president, President Trump, or another dismantle The political prosecutocracy that we are witnessing here in America.
	We've been talking to one of your favorites, Lord Conrad Black, co-host of Scholars and Sense, the podcast.
	The website is conradmblack.com.
	The Twitter handle is Conrad M. Black.
	He is the author, most recently, of Donald J. Trump, a president like no other.
	Don't forget to follow us.
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	Your calls next, and then Miranda Devine.
	Stay on this channel.
	I think so.
	I think we are, as I tried to write in the article you mentioned, I think we are at the point where Since the courts wouldn't take up the problems with the last election, and just abdicated, the people have to decide.
	And Trump's enemies are trying to pretend he has no argument to complain about the 2020 election.
	He's just a bad man, this is a pig union, he's a bad man.
	That's the argument, you know?
	And Maureen Dowd effectively says the same thing.
	They just don't like him, so therefore they can't have him.
	Well, the people have to decide these things.
	But I think the answer is yes.
	First of all, you make the point that this is not how the politics of the country are conducted, by turning everything into a criminal case and abusing the justice system, and just trying to criminalize policy differences and political rivalries.
	It's a process that's been developing since Watergate, and we've reached the apogee of it, where it's an indict-o-rama.
	They're just showering down these indictments on him, and I don't think the public buys any of it.
	And the more it goes on, I think the more it's going to backfire.
	But if the right man wins, it could be undone?
	Yes, I believe so.
	Yeah, I think so.
	And I think yes.
	The answer is yes.
	Let's explore that next time.
	He would need the support of the Congress, but I think they'll follow public opinion.
	I think public opinion mistrusts the justice system and the FBI and wants some reforms.
	Right.
	No, I agree.
	I agree.
	And I'm not sure they're satisfied with the pace of what's happening in the House at the moment.
	Well, I saw the speaker on television this afternoon.
	He's getting awfully close to calling for an impeachment of the president.
	Yeah, he's getting better.
	He's getting better.
	He's getting better.
	Yeah.
	Good stuff.
	Quite an improvement on his predecessor.
	Yes, we can at least be thankful for that.
	All right.
	All the best.
	Thank you, Conrad.
	God bless.
	Bye-bye.
	Bye-bye.
	All right.
	Alright, title for that one?
	Can the Democrats replace Biden with Newsom?
	Alright.
	Have we blocked the lines?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Alright, what have I not played?
	Oh, Panetta.
	Panetta is important.
	Eric Trump.
	I'll do that with Miranda.
	San Francisco's important.
	Eric's a bit long.
	That is true.
	The Duckworth thing also, the Ukraine jets.
	Chris Christie.
	You played everything else, yeah.
	Okay.
	Hey, Mac.
	Oh, thank you.
	Mm-hmm.
	You you
	you you
	you The most awesome voice in talk radio.
	No, not me.
	Dr. G. Most kind.
	Thank you, Mark.
	Very kind, very kind.
	Can you believe it that there's actually an organization in America today that still backs Obamacare, gun control, and crazy transgender policies that are endangering our children?
	They say they're bipartisan, but 95% of their donations went to...
	The Democrats!
	The AARP does not represent the value of American seniors.
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	Join the association that is as patriotic as you are.
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	Portions of America First are brought to you in part by AMAC, the Association of Mature American Citizens.
	Back to your calls, waiting very patiently in Springfield, our good buddy, Victor.
	Greetings, Victor!
	Hey, Sebastian.
	I got a piece of news that may be good if you keep your fingers crossed.
	Is it to do with your crazy liberal neighbor, Victor?
	No.
	I've been listening to a talk show host, Jake Smith, on WGMD, on my Lady A device from the Eastern Shore, and he's been talking about the head of the Republican Party.
	I never caught her last name, but her first name is Julie.
	She was on the Greta show last night on Newsmax.
	Okay.
	And she is going to file a brief with the judge tomorrow to delay the sentencing of Hunter Biden because of all the new evidence that's coming along.
	But hang on, hang on, hang on.
	A person in the leadership of the GOP?
	In Delaware is filing a stay motion so the judge doesn't give Hunter his sweet deal today?
	Yes.
	That's fascinating.
	Absolutely fascinating.
	All right.
	Stay on the line, Victor.
	If you've got any more details, give them to Mr. G because I need to know those details.
	Of course, we have the best listeners and they bring us the information.
	That's how good they are.
	Let's go to Randy Knoxville.
	Greetings.
	Hey, good afternoon, Dr. Gorka.
	Hey.
	Hey, Knoxville here in East Tennessee, Tim Burchett's our congressman and he's conducting, he's doing these hearings on the UFOs here today.
	Oh, it's your congressman!
	Alright, so what's your take?
	Is this serious or is this just a little bit of a distraction?
	Well, you know, I think it's serious.
	You know, Congressman Burchett, also Dr. Gorka, is a huge Bigfoot guy.
	I mean, he is.
	He's all involved out here in East Tennessee.
	We're right there at the Smoky Mountains.
	There's Bigfoots all over the place.
	All right, I've got to ask you, Randy.
	Do you believe?
	Absolutely.
	And you know who else believed Dr. Gorka?
	Is George Lucas.
	And that's the reason, Dr. Gorka, that we have never found a dead Bigfoot, because they walk around, they jump in their flying saucer, the Millennium Falcon, like Chewbacca, who's obviously a Bigfoot, and they cruise out into the galaxy.
	Well, I have to say, Randy, that classic footage, the color footage of the Sasquatch, that most famous one where it's crossing the stream, it does look a little bit like Chewie.
	So you may have tied the knots together.
	Nicely done, Randy.
	Stay on the line.
	I don't know if he's got any of my books.
	Jeff, ask him if he does or doesn't.
	We'll give him some signed copies.
	If you want any of my books, they're at sebgorkastore.com.
	That's S-E-B-G-O-R-K-A, sebgorkastore.com.
	Let's go to San Francisco, Kim!
	Yeah, hi Seb, how are you?
	I'm good!
	How are you surviving in San Francisco?
	We've got some crazy footage we're going to share with you guys in the next segment, but carry on.
	Yeah, it's all true.
	My dad is the Berlin Airlift guy.
	I've called you before.
	Yes!
	But, yeah, anyway, what I want to tell you is the California GOP is trying to pull a fast one.
	Jessica Patterson, the president, is, you know, in cahoots with McCarthy, and they're planning on trying to change how the delegates are apportioned.
	Currently it's winner-take-all, but they want to change the bylaws in like a secret, well not really secret, but an executive committee meeting.
	We discussed this, you may not have tuned in, we discussed this just before I went on vacation.
	I think, I've got to do my homework, Kim, but I think we're safe in California.
	I think there was some skullduggery.
	I think Harmeet Dhillon stepped up to the plate, shook the tree, and I think they're stepping down on moving the dates and going first past the post.
	But thank you for reminding me.
	I didn't follow this while I was away last week.
	We will check up.
	But yes, there was a plot.
	There was a ploy.
	But I think we're safe.
	Thank you, Kim.
	God bless.
	We will be back with your calls and our special guest, the ranting divine here on America First, coming to you from just outside the insalubrious, fetid, rank, malodorous, noisome swamp that is Washington, D.C., from the reliefactor.com studios.
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	you you
	you Knee deep in the swamp.
	First place in your hearts.
	America first with Dr. G. I probably shouldn't say this as a host of a nationally syndicated radio show and a TV show as well and a former strategist of President Trump.
	There's something I don't understand.
	I don't get Chris Christie.
	What is he doing?
	What does he think people think of him?
	I mean, he's disgusting as an individual to begin with.
	His reputation is in the gutter.
	And now he says stuff like this.
	Cut nine.
	When we had the problems in this country that we had back in the late 70s, it looks very much like today.
	Energy crisis, problems overseas that are not being dealt with appropriately, runaway inflation.
	And what the country did, and our party, and the Republican Party did, was turn to a conservative governor from a blue state named Ronald Reagan, who understood how to get things done.
	You know, the Trump agenda is not worth anything to Republicans if Trump's the one trying to execute it.
	Because he's proven he didn't know how to get things done.
	He didn't know how to build the wall. He didn't repeal and replace Obamacare.
	Donald Trump didn't know how to get things done?
	Yeah.
	I guess crushing ISIS, strongest economy in human history, immigration down to a trickle, NATO revitalized, North Korea back in its box.
	Oh, no wars for four years.
	How about that one, Krispy Kris?
	I'm going to control my blood pressure now, because I'm going to connect to a good person.
	One of the Patriots.
	She may have an interesting accent, but she's one of us!
	You know her.
	Intrepid investigative journalist, Daily Telegraph, New York Post, Fox News, and just an all-round good egg.
	Miranda Devine!
	Welcome back to America First.
	Hello, Dr. Gorka.
	How are you?
	I'm very well.
	I just was chatting for about 20 minutes with a big fan of yours, Lord Conrad Black, and I played him.
	He's wonderful.
	He is.
	He is a very sagacious, a very wise man, and anything you read from him, you've got to get out your thesaurus and your dictionary, because he has a grasp of the English language that is commendable.
	I want to play a couple of cuts.
	Yes?
	I was just going to say, he's my former boss because he owned the Sydney Morning Herald.
	I think he bought it when I was working there.
	I was a columnist for him.
	So the paper was fantastic when he was there and was not so good afterwards.
	Yeah, any newspaper that was good is probably owned by that man.
	So yes, he's the chairman of the Hollinger Group.
	You've got a new article up.
	We've got to discuss that topic as well.
	It's absolutely essential because you're always breaking news for us.
	Hunter Biden put then-Vice President Dad Joe on the phone with business associates at least two dozen times.
	Devon Archer is to testify.
	Miranda, I played the... I'm not going to play the third time because you shouldn't do that on radio, but I played it in the first hour.
	I played it for Lord Black.
	The fact that for two years, Miranda, We've had Biden say, I never discussed the business dealings of my son with him.
	And then just today and yesterday, the narrative changes.
	The White House press secretary says, we can confirm that the president was never in business with his son.
	Does this mean that the house of cards is starting to quiver?
	Well, it seems that it means that they've had lawyers finesse the wording because obviously it's a lie
	and it's a provable lie and has been for some time that Joe Biden knew nothing about his son Hunter's
	overseas business dealings and never met with any of his business partners.
	That's all cataloged and it's as more information, more whistleblowers come out of the woodwork,
	more former business associates of Hunter's who knew that Joe Biden was meeting
	with the overseas business partners, it just becomes impossible to sustain.
	So there's a very significant shift in the rhetoric and you saw it from Corrine Jean-Pierre hilariously
	yesterday and she goes, oh, for the millionth time, I'm going to repeat the same answer I always give you.
	No, first time she said that, that the President is not in business with his son.
	No one has said that.
	That's not the question.
	The question is the same question that's been for a long time.
	Do you stand by your comment, your lie, that you know nothing about your son Hunter's overseas business dealings?
	And he has repeatedly said, yes, I stand by it.
	Yes, that's true.
	He shouts because he doesn't like being cornered and he's not used to having anybody in the media ask him hard questions.
	But, you know, he can hardly avoid it.
	Stephen Nelson from the New York Post and Steve Doocy and a couple of others, not many, are there and they never called on the press conference but they do manage to shout questions at Joe Biden when he's walking past and occasionally it tags him and he hears it and he gets angry and he shouts and you can tell he feels cornered.
	And are you disappointed that we now hear that the Devon Archer testimony will be behind closed doors, no cameras?
	Oh no, I expected that and I think, look, I think this is the MO.
	You watch those congressional oversight hearings that are public and they're completely useless because you seem to have every single member wants to have their five minutes of fame and they grandstand, they ask the wrong questions, they're not coordinated.
	You see Christopher Wray get off the hook, you see the IRS whistleblowers Just being smashed up by the Democrats and kind of not allowed to have their say otherwise.
	And so it's just a very imperfect system.
	Much better to do.
	This is what the January 6th committee did.
	They filmed this, they call it transcribed interviews behind closed doors.
	Democrats and Republicans are in there, but they're proper questioning.
	They can cross examine people.
	And I think that probably is the best way to do it.
	And then release the transcripts or at least you know, redacted transcripts and then later on bring the
	person in for a hearing when the public is sort of more au fait with what they, with the story they
	have to tell. Can you stay with us for three more minutes so we can close out the hour with you
	Miranda? Sure. All right.
	In the meantime, you've got to follow her.
	She's with the New York Post.
	You see her on Fox almost every day.
	Follow her at Miranda Divine.
	I'm Sebastian Gawker.
	This is America First coming to you live from just outside the insalubrious, fetid, rank, malodorous, noisome swamp that is Washington, D.C.
	If you have a cell phone, can I just ask you a very simple question?
	Are you funding your enemies with every call you make and every text you send?
	Because if your cell phone is connected to one of the big cell phone providers, you know who they are.
	Well, yes you are.
	You're funding those who hate America.
	Because those big cell phone companies are utterly woke.
	Every day you hear about another familiar brand selling out their customers and going left-wing.
	We should be sick and tired of having left-wing propaganda jammed into every product we consume.
	And woke cell phone companies are no different.
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	And maybe you thought there was no alternative.
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	They have free activation, if you use my name, and additional discounts for veterans and first responders.
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	That number is 878-728-7468 or go to patriotmobile.com slash G-O-R-K-A.
	Okay.
	So did you ever meet Conrad?
	I never did, no, sadly.
	Oh, I might have been I might have been in a board meeting or something he was at, but I never physically met him.
	I might have been in the same room with him, but I never talked to him.
	But I always admired him from afar.
	I did interview his wife one time.
	Oh, really?
	I did a stint at the Sunday Times.
	I can't remember what it was for.
	It was many moons ago.
	And she was a... I think she was a columnist there or something.
	Anyway, she was very glad.
	Barbara.
	Yeah, he's who I want to be if I ever grow up.
	Yeah, nice to have the money.
	Yeah, but not having to go through what he went through.
	Oh, God.
	Why did he get jailed again?
	What was that for?
	His business partners and his board members, some of whom were, of course, you know, kind of coerced by the DOJ, basically said he'd mismanaged the funds of the Hollinger Group.
	It was all garbage.
	Oh, right, right.
	So he was one of the first victims of the weaponization.
	Oh, yeah, absolutely.
	If you read his book, it's shocking.
	And then of course, President Trump pardoned him.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	No, he's a great writer.
	Incredible, incredible.
	And his autobiographies are superb.
	Oh, I must read.
	So, it's what, the latest autobiography?
	There's two.
	There's two autobiographies.
	He did it in two parts and I've read the first one.
	Alright, stand by.
	Ah, okay.
	Thank you.
	10 seconds.
	Dr. G is ready for anything on America First.
	Dr. G is ready for anything on America First.
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	Get yours today, SebGorkaStore.com.
	That's S-E-B-G-O-R-K-A-Store.com.
	We are back with Miranda Devine.
	You must follow her right now on social media.
	You see her regularly on Fox News and elsewhere, at Miranda Devine, New York Post as well.
	Miranda, You know, I'm excited when I hear new developments.
	This subpoena, that subpoena, grassroots releases, this FT1023, so on and so on.
	But then I look at the last six years and I think, Gorka, what are you talking about?
	You know, the administrative state, the deep state, always defends its own.
	Do you have any confidence at all that the truth will come out and there will be consequences for the likes of the Bidens?
	Look, I do.
	And that's because I think one's bitten twice shy.
	I think the Republicans got completely hoodwinked during the Trump administration with all the Russia, Russia, Russia collusion stuff.
	And, you know, the Attorney General at the time recusing himself and everybody playing by the Marquis of Queensbury rules.
	Now, I think it's gloves off.
	People understand that the Democrats are not playing fair.
	And there's a whole new crop of Republicans in the House that are just baying for blood and they want fairness,
	particularly with what's happening with Donald Trump and the weaponization of the DOJ.
	You've got today, Speaker Kevin McCarthy is floating the idea of impeaching Joe Biden.
	You had just last week, those two IRS whistleblowers absolutely smashing the idea that that plea deal,
	the idea that that plea deal, that sweetheart deal that Hunter Biden was in any way legitimate.
	that sweetheart deal that Hunter Biden was in any way legitimate.
	You've got Hunter Biden appearing tomorrow, the judge is quite within her rights
	You've got Hunter Biden appearing tomorrow.
	The judge is quite within her rights to reject that plea deal and send them back to the drawing
	to reject that plea deal and send them back to the drawing board.
	board.
	You have Senator Chuck Grassley last Thursday released that FBI document with real bombshell
	quotes from Vlachevsky, the Burisma Ukrainian oligarch, saying he paid $10 million of bribes
	to Joe Biden and Hunter Biden to get the prosecutor fired.
	And then you've got Devin Archer testifying on Monday, and he's expected to talk about
	all the overseas business partners of Hunter's that Joe Biden met, which just proves the
	lie that he's been telling.
	And then you've got now we've got David Weiss, the U.S.
	attorney in Delaware.
	His story has never hung true with what the attorney general Merrick Garland said under
	oath that he had.
	That's good enough for me.
	If Miranda has faith, then I will too.
	In the meantime, this is America First.
	Next up, one-on-one with Chris Ruffo.
	people sitting around the table that he didn't have complete authority and that it wasn't
	up to him about press charges against Hunter.
	That's good enough for me.
	If Miranda has faith, then I will too.
	In the meantime, this is America First.
	Next up, one-on-one with Chris Ruffo.
	Don't go anywhere.
	I'm Chris Ruffo.
	I'm out.
	you you
	welcome back dear friends You know, I just got back from vacation yesterday.
	Great to be back in front of the camera, in front of the microphone.
	But question is, what does Dr. G take with him to read?
	Long flight out to Colorado, then in a car for another five hours, and then I'm stuck on a ranch for a week.
	What did I read?
	Was it Tom Clancy?
	Was it one of my favorite British authors, like Terry Pratchett?
	No, it was non-fiction.
	That's the kind of sad person I am.
	But it's so exciting because it's a brand new book that hadn't even come out yet!
	I had it in my hands before it had been published and it's such a serious work of such value and import that let's just put an image up of one page of my notes.
	I don't usually scribble as much as that unless it's a very, very good book underlining things I will mention on the show.
	What is this book I hear you scream from the comfort of wherever you're listening to this show?
	It is by a man who's done more than most to identify what has happened to America in terms of the radicalization of the left.
	It's called America's Cultural Revolution, How the Radical Left Conquered Everything.
	And we're going to sit down now, one on one, with the author, none other than Christopher Rufo.
	Chris, welcome back to America First.
	It's great to be with you again.
	All right, so we've known each other for a good few years now.
	Before you exploded onto the scene as a person who would help initiate anti-CRT, anti-crazy left-wing government measures by my former boss, President Trump, to bring some sanity back to the United States.
	But before that happened, I got to know you through an amazing film.
	My wife said, you've got to sit down, you've got to watch this movie about poverty in America.
	So, just for those who aren't familiar with your backstory before you got into the world of CRT and wokeism, who is Chris Ruffa and what have you been doing up to this point?
	Yeah, well, you know, for the first part of my career, I worked as a documentary film director.
	I worked on films for PBS, Netflix, international broadcast stations.
	And so I came to the conservative political world from a very different place than most of my new colleagues.
	But a couple of years ago, after making the film that you saw, America Lost, I decided to really get into the political world, do journalism, reporting, think tank work, policy work.
	But what I've tried to do and what I really also try to do with the book is bring a narrative sensibility to it.
	And I think conservatives are often very smart, very analytical, very abstract.
	They make airtight logical arguments.
	But so often they lack that narrative, human, emotional capacity that is what I think really drives people at the end of the day.
	So the book and certainly that film that you saw a number of years ago now, Both try to bring those two things together.
	It has the logic and argumentation, but also has the emotion and story.
	And my contention is that when you can unite those two ways of being, those two ways of communicating, that's really where the best and most effective work can get done.
	Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
	We'll talk about how you've done it in this book that really is the story of what the left did in the last 80 years and how we've arrived at where we are today where, you know, 12-year-olds think that the gender is just a statement and you can change it by volition.
	But let me ask that question because it's something that troubles me every single day.
	Why is it And I don't know what your political identity is today, we can talk about that later, but why is it that conservatives seem to be so hobbled, so neglecting of this question of telling good stories?
	There's a very simple answer that, you know, we're not collectivists, you know, conservatives believe in the individual, therefore we're not a hive mind.
	Number two, there's another simplistic argument that we just want to live our lives, we just want to, you know, Make the rent check at the end of the month, make sure the kids have another pair of shoes for the next semester in school.
	Is there something deeper that helps explain why the left understands the power of and the emotional force of storytelling and the right has neglected it for decades?
	Have you come to some kind of diagnosis?
	Yeah, it's a complex question, we could go all hour on just that, but two points stand out in my mind.
	If you look at the older revolutions, I'm talking 100 years ago, 200 years ago, the kind of Marxist revolutions in 1848 and 1917, I think conservatives felt that the emotions were used in a mass society to mobilize the mob, you know, the crowd.
	And so they became very skeptical of emotion, especially on political questions.
	Because for conservatives, for certainly the European upper classes, the driving and the frenzied emotions of the mob were seen as a threat to the established order, a threat to the conservative hierarchies of the time.
	But then there's another element that I think is really important.
	In the American context, after World War II, you have really the rise and then the dominance of the libertarian economic position.
	So you have the Austrian economists, you have You know, the free market, gospel.
	And while I'm sympathetic to those arguments, I'm a fan of the free market, I think what happened is that it became almost a materialistic worldview.
	And so, things were described in materialistic and social scientific terms.
	It was about maximizing GDP.
	It was about quantitative measures.
	It was about logic, mathematics.
	And the kind of cold scientific arguments were the ones that won the day in the conservative sphere.
	And so when you have all of that together, you have conservatives that are reticent to make emotional arguments or tell narrative stories, and then you have a materialistic worldview that prioritizes the quantification rather than the quality of a phenomenon.
	And so I think that you end up with kind of the egghead, you know, policy wonk world that is making statistical arguments and then wondering why they're not making more headway.
	I think it's just one side of it.
	And if you don't have, you know, it's like a bird with one wing, you know, it's great.
	It's still a bird.
	It's a beautiful wing, maybe.
	But the bird is not going to fly.
	Yeah.
	So you have to have you have to have both of those wings.
	You have to have both of those ways.
	Yeah, I think that's a very sound argument, that we believe the facts would be all that you needed.
	And also, it's important that you added this libertarian tinge, that with the libertarians, it's the denial of a necessity of a moral argument.
	That it's just, freedom, that's it, free markets, laissez-faire.
	And ignoring, you know, this idea that there's a soul, there's an emotive driving force to human beings that of course will be filled by something else, whether it's Greta Thunberg or whether it's, you know, Herbert Marcuse.
	The book is America's Cultural Revolution.
	It's just out.
	It's the number one bestseller already.
	How the radical left conquered everything.
	Some amazing endorsements.
	I mean, a true panoply from people who really aren't classic conservatives like Barry Weiss to the great Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson, Greenwald.
	So congratulations.
	Tell us, Chris, why, first things first, you know, like you're pitching this two years ago to your publisher, why this book had to be written.
	Tell us why you wrote the book first.
	I mean, I think this is the most important story for conservatives and even center-left liberals to understand.
	And the book emerges from this question that I think so many people were asking in the summer of George Floyd 2020.
	What happened to all of our institutions?
	How is it that seemingly every school, university, corporation, and government bureaucracy suddenly was seized by the narratives of critical race theory and then radical gender ideology?
	Where did this come from?
	How did it happen?
	And what can we do about it?
	And so those are the questions that I sought out to answer and doing the deep historical research so that I can explain to people This is where those ideas come from.
	This is how those ideas attain power.
	And this is how an intelligent, sophisticated, conservative movement can go about defeating them on their own terms and then, of course, with our own principles.
	And so to understand the long march to the institutions, to understand how ideology attains power, If you can understand those things, you're going to be smarter than 99.9% of the people in the country on these political questions.
	And I want to give the people in our movement that are aligned with the ideas and values that we have, I wanted to arm them with the information and the history and the analysis that they need in order to start pushing back.
	All right.
	We're talking to Chris Ruffo, senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.
	Follow him at realchrisruffo, R-U-F-F-O.
	Also his substack, ruffo.substack.com.
	Get the book right now.
	You can see I don't do this with most books.
	When I outline it as much as this one, it means it is of high value.
	America's cultural revolution, how the radical left conquered everything.
	Best-seller already, just released last week.
	Get yours today.
	I'm Sebastian Gorka.
	This is America First one-on-one, the deep dive, the long-form discussions with the real experts, the real newsmakers.
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	And then, if you are America First, if you stand with my former boss, President Trump, this is the pride flag you should be waving along with the stars and stripes.
	I stand with 45, a man who has been, whatever Ron DeSantis says, more attacked than any politician in living memory.
	So when babies are born, the doctor looks at them and they make a guess about whether the baby is a boy or a girl, based on what they look like.
	That's sebgorkastore.com.
	That's S-E-B-G-O-R-K-A, sebgorkastore.com.
	So when babies are born, the doctor looks at them and they make a guess about whether
	the baby is a boy or a girl based on what they look like.
	And most of the time that guess is 100% correct.
	There are no issues whatsoever.
	But sometimes the doctor is wrong.
	The doctor makes an incorrect guess.
	One of my students felt safe enough to share his pronouns with me.
	And when he did so, once the class knew that I knew, they all switched pronouns.
	They're second graders.
	Like I'm torn between being really really happy to be a safe space and just absolutely furious that an entire group of second graders has to keep this secret from not safe people.
	My study told me that including trans students in all spaces is best practice.
	It also told me that there are trans kids of every age.
	One I actually worked with in my student teaching, he was in the third grade.
	Kids as young as three and four are actually aware of their gender identity, even if they don't have the language for it.
	They're also very aware of who they like and who they don't like.
	Yes, I'm a teacher in the district.
	I also teach in LUSD.
	I have two students in the district.
	I did intervention at Fremont, but I'm also a community member who volunteers extensively in Watts and South LA, and I work at the Children's Hospital of Los Angeles with queer, trans youth and large groups.
	I can't even always remember that one.
	the heteronormative, Judeo-Christian, patriarchal, imperialist, capitalist system that oppresses them.
	I can't even always remember that one. The heteronormative, patriarchal, capitalistic,
	imperial, blah blah blah blah blah. You should be in a mental home, not a teacher!
	A little montage Jeff put together of the crazy people who are actually with our children for six to eight hours every single day.
	We are discussing the book America's Cultural Revolution with its author Chris Rufo.
	Chris, you have... I'm not gonna, you know, give away spoilers.
	I want everybody listening.
	You've got three and a half million people right now.
	You need to go online, need to order the book.
	But you paint this picture, and it is essential, it is the narrative picture of where this insanity came from, the germination over the decades from Marcuse, you talk about the Maoist Long March of the institutions, Angela Davis, BLM, on and on and on, Paulo Freire, and on Derrick Bell, you know, the critical theory father or critical legal theory father.
	Let me ask with regards to that montage we just played.
	If you had to identify the center of gravity, the focal point today of this insanity, where would you put it?
	I mean, we know it's everywhere.
	We know it's in the media, social media, high schools, colleges, books, whatever.
	I think, given what we've just played, The function of the teacher training colleges is not adequately understood as driving this.
	Would you say that or would you say something else?
	If there's a locus for the ideology, where would you put it today, Chris?
	Yeah, you know, the third section of the book that comprises a number of chapters all about education and pedagogy, I go into the nitty-gritty details of how left-wing radicals, using the issues of race and gender predominantly, were able to capture all of the graduate schools of education.
	And most people say, well, what's that, a graduate school of education?
	Well, those are the institutions that train virtually all of the K-12 teachers in the public school system.
	And so they first got a hundred radicals in, and now they've managed to assert dominance over all of these institutions as a whole.
	And they're pushing radical neo-Marxist ideology as a gospel truth.
	And just by osmosis, by transmission, now they control exactly how teachers are behaving in the classroom.
	Their ideas have saturated the whole training program for these kids.
	And so What I think is that race is the great tool for the left, for public policy, for changing the government, for changing taxes, for changing social policies, for changing law.
	But gender is something that's actually quite different.
	And what I'm struck by in that clip, I think it illustrates beautifully this point that I'm trying to hammer home.
	is that radical gender theory or queer theory is not just a revolt against the heteronormative patriarchy, right?
	It's not a revolt against social institutions.
	It is that it's actually a revolt against the nature of human beings and the nature of creation.
	So if you are a believer in the biblical tradition, you know, you're Jewish, you're Christian, you're Muslim, You believe in the Genesis, you believe that it reveals a deep truth.
	God says that He created human beings, male and female.
	That's the basic of our species.
	That's how the universe functions.
	That's the order of the cosmos.
	What they're trying to do is say, we can actually manipulate human consciousness through the application of our ideology, and eradicate the conditions of human nature, and eradicate the order of the cosmos.
	That's how deep it is, that's how insidious it is, and that's really how deranged it is at the end of the day.
	Now, if we take your book and we, you know, fly up to 50,000 feet and we look down on the last 80... No, let's do the last 130 years.
	Let's do way back to... 100 years.
	Let's go back to Antonio Gramsci in that Italian prison cell.
	After six years of mind-bending, critical thought-destroying conspiracy theories like the Russia collusion hoax, I don't want us to fall into the trap of saying, this is a conspiracy!
	What is it?
	I don't see one mastermind.
	Yes, we'll talk about Marcuse in a second, but what I see is like-minded individuals in different parts of the world who are trying to deal with the failure of classic Marxism to ignite a working-class revolution.
	Is this a conspiracy theory?
	Qua, you know, real conspiracy theories?
	Or is this a cultural phenomenon?
	What is the best label?
	Because I want us to stay in the realm of what can be factually underpinned.
	Yeah, I mean, I think, look, I would love for it to be easily identifiable, a top-down campaign.
	If we just identify who's responsible, you know, we can solve this problem.
	But that's not true.
	That's not how it is.
	It's not a conspiracy in that classical sense of the word.
	All it is, it's a network and a network of networks of people that are ideologically committed And they gain institutional power and they change institutional practices to create a system of incentives and disincentives that rewards left-wing ideas and left-wing behaviors and left-wing decisions and punishes left or right-wing behaviors, ideas and decisions.
	And over time, these things snowball into a culture and a broader system of culture that is not controlled or operated or manipulated by people from the
	top down, but actually conquers new territory organically,
	conquers new territory by virtue of incentives and mutually reinforcing people and practices and organizations.
	And so it actually makes it much more difficult to solve this problem.
	And you have to actually not say, well, if we take out the World Economic Forum,
	you know, our problems will be solved.
	It's not a great organization, but it's by no means where we really should be focusing our effort.
	It's actually understanding institutions, understanding the transmission of culture, understanding how people function.
	And you need to get better ideas with better people inside of these institutions to promote better practices.
	And so it is a total war, and conservatives need to engage it in a reality sense of the situation.
	You have to get into the institutions, you have to bring in your people, you have to improve the curriculum and the ideas and the policies, and then you have to change the laws to incentivize good ideas and disincentivize bad ideas.
	We'll get to the remedy momentarily.
	We're talking to Chris Rufo.
	Follow him at realchrisruforufo.substack.com.
	The book is America's Cultural Revolution.
	I think I've got the title for this segment.
	It's a total war.
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	Chris, when I was working for the Defense Department and I was teaching counter-terrorism and irregular warfare, one of the case studies we spent several weeks on was in fact the weather underground.
	And you cover it at some length in this book, the way it grows out of SDS, how people forget thousands, literally thousands of murders and bombings in the United States in the 70s as a result of these white radicals.
	Why did all of this happen and what is the The liminal point where things really change in terms of strategy and tactics.
	Let me just read.
	When I do three lines on the side of a book, not just one or two, it means it's really important.
	This is one of those three-lined little scribbles of mine.
	And you're discussing Marcuse.
	He said, he encouraged the student radicals to put down their arms And borrow themselves in the universities, schools, media and social services.
	Here's the important point.
	Capturing the means of knowledge production established In order to subvert them, or in Marcuse's words, direct quote, working against the established institutions while working in them.
	Now, for me, this is the light bulb moment when I saw this and I said to myself, hang on a second.
	We have the classic Marxist theory of capturing the means of production, which meant what?
	The factories, right?
	We've got to have a revolution and the thing that makes the nuts and the bolts, that's the thing that we've got to capture because that's where the power lies.
	And you have switched it or you've made the observation that Marcuse and others went from physical production to capturing knowledge production.
	Is this really The moment that it all changes in America and the West.
	Yeah, I mean, I think you picked a crucial segment of the book and really a crucial quote, because if you can understand what that means, you can understand how it drove the left strategy from more or less 1972 to the present.
	You can really understand what's happening to our country today.
	And so when you look at, for example, the BLM movement, and you say that it is a reincarnation of the Black Panther Party, The Black Panther Party, their ideologists, their pamphleteers, their minister of information, Eldridge Cleaver, said we want to have violent revolution, we want to take over the government, we want to seize control of all the factories and then create an equal society on that Marxist-Leninist line.
	Totally unsuccessful, totally unrealistic.
	Collapses by the early 1970s.
	BLM, however, had this moment where it seemed to saturate all of our institutions simultaneously.
	All of the corporations were posting and donating money to the BLM.
	K-12 schools around the country had a curriculum based on BLM ideology.
	And even in the streets, you had people that were kneeling, bowing, praying, and openly professing their faith to BLM.
	It seemed like BLM had conquered all of the means of knowledge production and communications.
	And that really, I think, is the culminating point in this 50-year strategy of gaining power in the institutions as they are, like Fortune 100 companies.
	Well, how could a Fortune 100 company profess a Marxist ideology?
	It seems self-contradictory.
	But you have to know that they're not, you know, Giving the Ford factory outside of Detroit to the working class, they're not doing that, they're not contemplating that.
	But they are giving the HR department, the marketing department, and the C-suite the resources that they need to promote the ideology of BLM.
	And so it is a shift that is so important for understanding what the world is today.
	And that moment where Marcuse is writing those words, it's 1972, in his book Counter-Revolution and Revolt, That's the fulcrum.
	That's the inflection point.
	That's the change that has had such a profound influence on where we are.
	The book is America's Cultural Revolution, How the Radical Left Conquered Everything.
	Out now, just came out.
	This was my vacation reading.
	Get yours today and follow our guest at Real Chris Rufo on Twitter, rufo.substack.com.
	The student generation that became active in these years did not need a father figure or a grandfather figure in order to lead them to protest against a society Which revealed daily its inequality, injustice, cruelty, and its general destructiveness.
	They could experience it.
	They saw it before their own eyes.
	The man himself, Herbert Marcuse, saying, oh, you don't need fathers.
	You don't need father figures.
	We're just, I don't know, some massive collective.
	We'll talk about how that has stayed to the present day and have been translated into actual frontline politics.
	Chris, I've got a peculiar question.
	Maybe you haven't been asked this before, but I find a strange dichotomy.
	My wife is just finishing her book on the next-gen Marxists, and she has to read all of these guys.
	I mean, all of them.
	Lukács, Marcuse, and they're bloody painful to read.
	I mean, just dirge-like, dry garbage.
	And I come to this conclusion, as the child of those who suffered under communist dictatorship and who were actually imprisoned, These people aren't very smart.
	They know how to pretend sounding smart, but they're not actually smart.
	And I'll just read one quote from Marcuse from your book.
	Meanwhile, political radicals lacking the requisite economic and democratic power to influence society are, quote, left free to deliberate and discuss, to speak and to assemble, And will be left harmless and helpless in the face of the overwhelming majority which militates against qualitative and social change.
	He's actually saying here that we are, writing it down, black and white, that we are against the majority.
	That we are undemocratic.
	He's actually admitting this is fascist.
	This is, you know, against the will of the people.
	He says, oh, oh, oh, the majority doesn't agree with us.
	Oh, oh, so sorry.
	I mean, they're just admitting they're fascists, aren't they, Chris?
	Well, I mean, I think that it's quite interesting, because even in Marcuse's time, he would identify as an anti-fascist, and his argument was that you have to use extra-parliamentary means, meaning you have to exert power outside of the democratic process in order to get to freedom, which is the true endpoint of human life.
	But you have to use kind of coercive means to get to freedom, so it's a paradox.
	We should not underestimate these theorists and then their descendants, who I actually think are much less impressive.
	But look, I mean, someone like Herbert Marcuse, I mean, he has his moments where he gets lost in a kind of dense Hegelian language, sure.
	But he has some very lucid moments and some very passionately written pieces that are undeniable in their intelligence, in their in their persuasive capacity and in their resonance with so
	many people.
	And so, well, I think it degenerates over time.
	These original figures are actually quite brilliant in their own way.
	The problem is that their brilliance does not equate to their moral judgment.
	And so they apply very high intellect to ideas that are attractive and utopian and transgressive, but they yield such catastrophic consequences for everyday people.
	And so they're willing, in a sense, to sacrifice the common citizen In pursuit of their abstract utopia.
	And to me, it's not that they're unintelligent.
	It's that they're morally contemptible.
	Yes.
	I mean, at the end of the day, it's a moral argument that we have.
	And conservatives, let's say even the average conservative who may not want to read through Marcuse's dialectic, that person likely has a much better moral intuition than someone like Marcuse at the end of the day.
	And that to me is what we need to foreground in our arguments.
	To say, hey look, You might be able to deploy your complex language, but here's a moral insight that I'm going to stand on, and I'm going to actually be on much firmer ground.
	So let's go from the diagnosis, everybody needs to read America's Cultural Revolution, but what do we do about it?
	You've been a catalyst for numerous actions at federal and state level, and I want to talk about what the right response is.
	But first things first, are we Are we conservatives from the get-go always going to be hobbled in this fight
	Because we believe in individual liberty.
	When, you know, individuals, it's like the fasces, the bundle of twigs that Mussolini used as the symbol of fascism, you know, it's stronger together than one, one twig alone.
	The left is a collective.
	They believe in the hive mind, the Borg.
	Is that an intrinsic deficit on our side and can it be overcome?
	I don't think it's necessary or intrinsic, although I would say that a specific interpretation of that idea that took root after the Second World War, and then really took root in a unique way after the end of the Cold War, has hobbled us.
	And I'll explain what I mean by that.
	There is a kind of libertarian bias.
	It comes from the Reagan years and then has now accelerated on the right to at least a certain faction of the right that has concluded in a kind of bizarre inversion of the principle of individual liberty that any government action is illegitimate, that conservatives should never seek to govern state institutions or public institutions or even public schools, that the only moral action is to try to reduce the size of government and wind down those institutions.
	In theory, okay.
	I'm actually somewhat amenable to that argument, although even the Founding Fathers didn't quite believe that.
	They believed in a state, they believed in a federal government, they believed in some public universities and such to get the best and the brightest into positions of leadership.
	But even if you put all that aside, the historical lineage, you're left with a paradox because the United States has a massive state sector, has a public monopoly on education from K through graduate school.
	It's almost all publicly run.
	And so the libertarian fantasists who make their decisions on abstract principles Don't even attempt to grapple with the status quo, which is that we have a massive state sector.
	And so they've abdicated their responsibility of governance.
	And so conservatives need to say, we're going to govern in a way that maximizes individual liberty.
	We're going to reform institutions to give you as much freedom as we can.
	We recognize that we should have a radically reduced size and scope of government.
	But given that we have these institutions, we have a responsibility to govern them, to set the public perception of those institutions requires us to govern them in a way that it reflects public attitudes and the values of the public that sends us into office.
	We need to have conservatives that are ready to govern again, that actually take the reins and they decide, you know what, if we're going to have state universities, they should reflect the majority of the citizens.
	They should reflect those viewpoints.
	And so we need to really finally kick those libertarians to the curb.
	Um, you know, send them back maybe to the, to the, you know, you know, they want to like legalize, you know, they want to smoke weed and legal, lower the age of consent.
	Like they, the left can have them, you know, let's boot them back to the left.
	Um, you know, uh, but we need responsible people that are willing to govern.
	Yeah, I've always said libertarianism is only adequate for children.
	If you think like a child, and if you think, you know, that society will function without government, then you're maybe a six-year-old.
	Works for six-year-olds, but not for adults.
	We're talking to Chris Rufo.
	The book is The America's Cultural Revolution.
	Tome, you must get it today.
	I have my copy all scribbled in already, just out already in number one.
	We are broadcasting to you from the relieffactor.com studios.
	Children are the kite strings, they're not somebody else's, they're all our children, are the kite strings that lift our national ambitions aloft.
	And you hold those strings.
	You hold those strings.
	That's why we're here.
	That's why we're discussing this book with its author Chris Rufo.
	Chris, that's the current incumbent of the White House, who said, they're not your children, they belong to all of us.
	You spent time at the beginning, first chapter of the book, discussing the Maoist revolution in China.
	That phrase, they're not your children, they're our children, or the state's children, that was Lenin, that was Hitler, that was Mao.
	It's arrived to America.
	Give us the correct response.
	I think you tell it in the book.
	You gave an interview on Tucker Carlson and then, you know, that snowballs and President Trump writes this executive order against CRT.
	As conservatives, do we want, this is, you know, debating the anti-libertarian argument, Do we want state to fix this, or is the fight best done at the local school board level, or the state level, or all of them?
	Give us your analysis, having diagnosed the problem, how do we get back to some sense of normality?
	Well, I mean, I think it absolutely starts with the family and the relationship between the child, the parents, and then the state.
	And Nietzsche had this very memorable line at the beginning of the kind of bureaucratic state in Europe, and he called it the cold monster of the state.
	That was the term that he came up with.
	And that's, I think, really accurate.
	And the question is, can the state love your children?
	Children need, first and foremost, love.
	And I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but it's an important question.
	Because if you say, well, what children need first and foremost is love, is the state a kind of entity that is capable of loving your children?
	Is the cold monster of the state the one that you want to be tucking your child into bed?
	The answer is obviously no.
	But they've created this narrative where the language they use, like, it's all of our children.
	It's the government's children.
	It's truly frightening, and we should all just ask those simple questions.
	And for me, the conservative argument is persuasive to me because it says that the core relationship is the relationships of affection, not coercion.
	The state is a form of coercion.
	That's what the state is.
	Whereas the relationships of affection are the ones that are voluntary.
	You bring a child into the world, you love your child, you have family, you have friends, you have people that have these warm human bonds.
	The state is a machine.
	The state is cold.
	The state cannot love.
	And therefore the state should really remove itself to the greatest extent possible.
	With the raising of children.
	The fact that we even have to say that is a terrifying thing.
	So well put.
	Alright, Chris, I have so many more questions to ask.
	Let's wrap up the interview.
	You can continue.
	Stay on the line after this interview because I want to talk about getting you on to my Newsmax show as well.
	Great.
	Let's end with this.
	I'm just curious because we have to tell stories.
	We started this interview with telling stories.
	I got to know of you prior to COVID, as I said, with regards to your documentary, America Lost.
	Not a lot of conservatives do documentaries on poverty in America.
	Were you of the left back then?
	Are you a conservative now?
	And more importantly, beyond labels and taxonomies, personal taxonomies, what has it been like for you to become, you know, one of the preeminent experts in this field who's not just a theoretician, but who's changing American culture in terms of your family, your friends.
	Tell us a little bit about what this has impacted upon your personal life.
	Yeah, it's had an enormous impact.
	In my own political genesis and then evolution, it started on the left, certainly was on the left as a young person, gravitated towards the center, and then only after making this film about American poverty did I really start to understand that what to me was the most persuasive case, the ideas that matched most closely with the reality that I was observing as a documentary filmmaker, was really the conservative intellectual tradition.
	I came at it from a very different set of experiences, a very different starting point.
	I call myself a conservative now and I'm not sure it's exactly the right thing.
	Maybe there's some, you know, very specific label that would fit better.
	I'm curious, what was it about?
	Documenting poverty in America, and it's an amazing film, People Need to See America Lost.
	What was it that made you realize, you know, the pablum of the left doesn't work, or this is the conservative answer?
	Was there some aspect of it that made you say, yeah, this is wrong?
	Yeah, I mean, it's actually an extension of the argument, or the point that we were discussing just now.
	The state cannot love and raise your children, but the state also cannot shape a society.
	And so I looked at all these poor communities that are, in a sense, kind of dependent on the state, run by the state, engineered by the state, and it's an absolute disaster.
	And so I realized that a society that is that is governed by the great society programs.
	It's not a great society at all.
	It's actually quite a dystopian society.
	Those ideas just don't work.
	They don't create healthy, vibrant, flourishing human communities.
	And so my politics shifted, and I identify as conservative now, not because it's maybe the most accurate, maybe I'm very special and there's something quite special that I could come up with, but It's a sign of solidarity.
	It's an indicator of who I'm aligned with.
	And it really is a demonstration and a label that I wear proudly because that's who I work with, that's who I fight with, fight alongside, and that's who I'm fighting for.
	And so I think it's enormously useful in that sense as a basic statement of allegiance.
	And politics is a team sport.
	Politics is a game of alliances, allegiances, collaborations.
	And so it's something that I'm quite proud of.
	Has there been a cost to you in that transition?
	Of course, yeah.
	I mean, I lost my former career.
	I got iced out of the documentary world.
	I lost many friends and colleagues.
	I was living in the city of Seattle at the time.
	That became untenable.
	It became just too high risk for me and my family.
	And so it required a lot of giving up.
	But for everything that I gave up, I gained new opportunities, relationships, friendships, ideas, inspiration, tenfold or a hundredfold.
	I would trade all of those things in, even though it was difficult at the time, I would trade them all in in a heartbeat.
	I'm so grateful for what I have and all these new friends and relationships and opportunities to talk with people like you on your program over the last couple of years.
	We're fighting for something true.
	We're fighting for something good.
	And we're fighting for something that, unfortunately, does not have competent champions in the public square.
	And so, to the extent that I can help with that, I'm honored to do so.
	Never a truer word.
	I'm not sure that's the note we want to leave it on, that we don't have enough effective champions, but you are definitely one of them.
	You are grateful.
	You just said, well, we're grateful for you.
	God bless you, Chris Rufo.
	Stay on the line in the meantime.
	I've got my copy.
	Get yours today.
	It's a number one bestseller already after just a week out.
	It is America's Cultural Revolution.
	How the radical left conquered everything.
	You've been listening to America First one-on-one with me, your host, Sebastian Gorka.

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