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Feb. 4, 2016 - GabCast Bellgab.com

02:09:36

04 February, 2016

04 February, 2016 ---------- Radio legend Art Bell appears for over two hours, and we cover all the bases.

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	Are you a smoker?
	Do you like e-cigs?
	Do you like vapes?
	That sort of thing?
	If you do, if you want to stop smoking, if you just like using vapes, you've never even been a smoker.
	Well, what you need to do is go to ufoship.com, click on e-cigs in the menu.
	This is the GabCast, a podcast about bellgab.com.
	Call the show now at 623-242-CAST.
	That's 623-242-2278.
	Now, shut up, sit down, and listen to the damn show.
	Sorry, Paperboy.
	Actually, Paperboy on Bellgab always complains about the NI.
	And I always mention the fact that Paperboy complains about that intro liner because he gets tired of the shut up and sit down.
	But I tried actually earlier cutting that off, and it just sounded so awkward.
	So I went ahead and left it in there.
	This is the Gabcast.
	It is a podcast about Bellgab.com and being a podcast about BellGab.com.
	I can't think of anyone better to have here with me at the moment than Art Bell.
	Art?
	Yes.
	Hi.
	Hi.
	I'm just so happy that there were no audio difficulties.
	I think I really would have to say that I attribute that to the early testing.
	I did a lot of beating things with hammers and everything worked out nicely.
	You sound great.
	You do too.
	Thanks for being here.
	Anyone who wants to call the show later, we're going to take plenty of calls, I'm sure.
	I will give the phone number.
	And, you know, I didn't think, you know what, Art?
	I was not nervous until just like five seconds ago.
	I just suddenly got nervous.
	Oh, my God.
	Anyway.
	You'll get over it.
	Well, I'm really happy we're here.
	I think that it's going to ultimately be a great thing when you look back on it.
	And a lot of people have probably wondered what the approach to this show would be because there's been so much controversy over the last almost two months.
	I think we're a week shy of two months since you left Midnight in the Desert.
	Pretty much everything from, I would imagine, be kind to him to eviscerate him and scattered him along, you know, outside somewhere.
	Well, I think what I want my approach to this show to be is I want to ask the questions that everybody, the reasonable questions, the need to know questions that everybody would like asked, at least do my best to accomplish that.
	But at the same time, I'd like this to be something people can listen to in 20 years and still enjoy it and appreciate it in its time, as opposed to it being so tightly woven into the controversies of the moment.
	I mean, we'll talk plenty about all of that stuff, but, you know, there's a bigger picture to things as well here.
	So anyway, I think I can win New Hampshire.
	You know, one of my questions, Art, as I, now that you say that, one of my questions, and I always, going back into the 90s, I just so loved listening to you talk politics.
	You underestimate yourself, I think, as a political talker.
	Oh, no, I don't.
	Oh, good.
	Oh, good.
	Good.
	Because I always hear you say you would just be so bored talking politics.
	Yes.
	Oh, yes.
	If that's what you do day in and day out, and that's all you do, yeah, it gets boring.
	We happen to be in a very interesting season, don't we?
	Well, that's why I would, I'm curious as to just your overall thoughts on the Republican, the Democratic primaries as well, the whole thing.
	What are your observations?
	Well, let's see.
	Beginning with the Democrats, Bernie's interesting, and he's actually in the last hour, CNN said that he went up again against Hillary.
	So someone like 60 to 33.
	It's crazy.
	In New Hampshire.
	Yeah, and I don't think Bernie's an ultimate presidential winner.
	I really don't.
	I think it's going to be Hillary after New Hampshire.
	You don't think she's going to be indicted?
	Well, there's that possibility, I suppose.
	Okay, let's say she is indicted.
	That makes the whole soupy mess even more interesting, more delectable.
	What do you think it could possibly step in?
	I think that's pretty likely.
	That's what I was going to say.
	If she got indicted, my guess is the vice presidential hat goes right in the ring.
	Or Elizabeth Warren.
	Yeah, could be.
	She's kind of a do-nothing, though.
	I don't know even why she has such a following.
	What's she done?
	I don't know.
	You need a big name to go in if something like that happened.
	It would be the vice president, I'm sure.
	Yeah, that would be the nature.
	You know, actually, though, as you look back in history, very few vice presidents have actually become president.
	I think it's only like four.
	They'll crucify you for this much politics, I'm telling you.
	The Republicans are where all the interesting stuff is happening.
	You know, I go from liking Trump to not liking Trump.
	And I love that he's as outspoken as he is and not politically correct.
	I really eat that up.
	And that's why I guess he's doing as well as he is.
	But, you know, then I wonder as president, how would he do?
	Well, he'll have a lot of advisors.
	He might do okay.
	So I'm kind of on the edge with Trump.
	Nobody else lights my fire.
	Rubio is a hell of a speaker, but he does one stump speech only and repeats that endlessly.
	Trump kind of does the same thing, but he shuffles it up a little bit, you know, just enough to make it just interesting enough to watch him deliver the same stump speech again.
	Well, look, it's this way.
	If Trump is on CNN making a speech or going off, I watch.
	As do I.
	I seek out his videos to watch.
	That's what a dweeb I am.
	There you go.
	My children are not being fed.
	I'm just watching Donald Trump videos all the time.
	Anyway, if he wins New Hampshire, I think from there on he might run the table.
	If he gets in trouble in New Hampshire, that could rapidly be the end.
	And that's where we should end it.
	Well, I want to end it after this question.
	You voted for Obama, I know, once.
	Did you vote for him twice?
	No.
	The first time you did, though, right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And, you know, I mean, this is a good question about your political philosophy overall because we want to talk about Art Bell the man.
	You are Art Bell and you're here, so this is a part of you.
	I remember back in the 90s listening to you routinely criticize Bill Clinton.
	Oh, yeah.
	And again, I greatly enjoyed that radio.
	Something has to have happened with regard to your political philosophy between then and 2008.
	What was it?
	Well, I'm a libertarian that leans sometimes left and sometimes right.
	That's the truth.
	I can't say anything else.
	I've been all over the place.
	I loved Ronald Reagan.
	I can lean left.
	I got caught up in the Obama thing and voted for him, as you mentioned, first time around.
	And so, and became disappointed.
	And so I think, and I've said this on the air, I think that Trump represents the absolute anger, the fact that people are fed up, wanting to run to the window, you know, mad as hell and all that, right?
	That's what he is.
	And it could, it could carry him to the White House.
	Well, you've heard it here tonight, ladies and gentlemen.
	Art Bell officially endorses Donald Trump and I'm just messing with you.
	Okay, so Art, what do you've left Midnight in the Desert?
	We're coming up on two months since you've appeared.
	You have not appeared.
	Your voice has not been heard anywhere until this moment, has it?
	That's right.
	That's right.
	Other than, I think one night when Heather got on, I came on from here at home and, you know, said a few things.
	She was having technical troubles, and so I jumped in.
	Other than that, no.
	It's funny that now that you mentioned Heather, it reminds me someone suggested that I work it out with Heather to have her, I start the show, and then I say, and here for Art Bell is Heather Wade.
	Art couldn't be here tonight.
	We were going to literally roll on with that for a couple of minutes and just really drive people.
	I just didn't have time to get it worked out.
	I wish I had.
	You need Heather Soundalike.
	Well, I don't know.
	I think I could have gotten her on the horn to do that with me.
	I think that would have been good fun.
	But anyway, so we'll get into the events that led to your departure in a moment, but you, I want to ask you about that night.
	That was in my way of, that was some of the most awkward radio I have ever heard.
	That the first night that Heather went on, and then you came back.
	What was going on there?
	I mean, that was surreal to me.
	It was simple.
	She was having technical troubles.
	And let me tell you, when you do a show, it's really hard to, as you must know from doing what you do there, especially when you have several people on the show.
	It's a disaster.
	You can get distracted by technical troubles.
	And she was distracted.
	I mean, it's hard to do a show, be coherent, and have technical trouble at the same time.
	And I heard her having that, and so I called in.
	And in addition to all of that, she was running her own board, right?
	She's watching the wormhole.
	Oh, yeah.
	She's bringing calls.
	So radio is a far more multitasking enterprise than a lot of people would assume or know.
	People who don't do it have no idea how hard it is.
	And at the risk of setting off a storm in there, Heather's doing a great job.
	She is running her own board.
	She is taking unscreened calls.
	Anyway, I could go on and on, but she is doing all that.
	And it's tough, really tough.
	And then she's producing on top of that.
	I think that she was dropped into a situation that was inauspicious, to say the least.
	And having been dropped in that set of circumstances, I think she's performed admirably.
	And I think through her performance, she could turn it in and she could scope herself for a night or two and get a job at a lot of radio stations across the country based on what she's done with Midnight in the Desert.
	Well, here's a fact.
	Here's a true fact.
	Some of the stations that dropped when I left are coming back.
	They sat by their satellite receivers, I guess, and listened and said, you know what?
	This is actually pretty good.
	And so she's back on, like in Denver.
	How many affiliates are there?
	Terrestrial.
	I'm really not sure right now.
	Someone has sent me a spreadsheet and said that the real number is 15, that the number on the website is totally out of whack.
	Yeah, that could be absolutely correct.
	I'm not sure.
	They're in the process of auditing that now.
	Well, she's heard on 15 more radio stations than I am.
	That's for sure.
	So kudos to her.
	Yeah, my point was they listened and thought it was viable and put it back on.
	That's saying a lot.
	Well, yeah, actually to leave and return.
	Yes, that's actually, that is not just a tacit endorsement.
	That's an endorsement.
	I would say.
	Yeah.
	Well.
	I would say.
	And, you know, when she got on, of course, she'd never done a radio show.
	So she's been on the cat cast, sir.
	I beg to differ.
	You're a digital network, too.
	So she'd never done one.
	She was scared and new at it and trying to run everything at once.
	So you can imagine it was tough, and she's come a long way.
	I think that if you there, people really have separated themselves mentally into a couple of groups here.
	People who are continuing to be supportive, I guess, hoping there's something on the other side of this.
	And people who actually have an aneurysm.
	If you say, hey, I think Heather's doing as good a job as any better than the overwhelming.
	She's doing just great for the situation she was dropped into.
	I don't think it would have matter.
	I see a lot of critiques of her.
	Well, she's not a seasoned broadcaster.
	But I can tell you that she's doing better than 99.98% of the population probably would.
	I think so.
	Look, a lot of people are really enjoying it.
	When I said the other day, I think I wrote that there were thousands and thousands of subscribers remaining.
	I mean it.
	There are many thousands.
	But having said all of that art, you know just as well as I do, Heather's not what people want.
	Which is why they're complaining.
	Their main complaint is not Heather when they do complain.
	Their complaint is it's not art.
	That's right.
	I failed to make the point just a moment ago.
	It would not matter who was placed in the chair, male, female.
	We've seen it a million times.
	The same level of criticism would have been thrown at that person.
	And taking that fact into account, I think, makes Heather all the more ballsy having accepted the position she did.
	Kudos to her.
	One last thing.
	If you listen to Heather and you listen to George, there's no comparison.
	She's got tons of content compared to tons of commercials, and she can pronounce most words.
	So she's got a head up right there.
	That certainly is an advantage relative to Mr. Nori, yes.
	Although he's a very nice guy, I would go have a beer with him.
	At least outwardly, he seems like a nice guy.
	I know that he's given you a couple hard times here or there with his David Oates interview and stuff like that.
	Yeah, that was raw.
	He still maintains that that was not an intended slight upon you.
	How could someone say that with a straight face?
	Mere coincidence.
	Yeah, that's hard to believe.
	Can't say that either, Kenny, because there are none.
	By the way, people are calling in.
	We're going to get to the calling segment in just a moment.
	I would like the show not to be so disjointed.
	So if you could just take a deep breath, please.
	There's plenty of time.
	Yeah.
	So you left Midnight in the Desert.
	Lead me up to take me through the events that led to your departure.
	Okay.
	I'm not going to do it date by date.
	No, I don't want you to feel like you're giving testimony that someone's going to hold you again.
	All right.
	So early on, we did lose internet.
	Now, I want you to bear in mind that our internet setup here is brand new.
	High-speed, really good internet was required for the show, and we got LV.net who brought it here.
	So about 200 yards away, there's a big metal box, and the cable goes from here to that metal box, and then it goes to the end of the yard where there's microwave on the tower.
	And the first thing that happened was somebody apparently yanked the cable.
	Now, I only say this because I had a technician out here looking for what the problem was, and he looked and he looked and he looked.
	Spent all day long here, and I sat here with him all day as he tried to figure out the problem here or there, where was the problem.
	He finally figured it out.
	One wire had pulled back and was shorted against another, as simple as that, out in that box way far away from me.
	And he said it, you know, it's like somebody yanked on the cable.
	Now, I have no way of knowing whether somebody just didn't screw it in right in the first place or somebody yanked on the cable.
	But that was the first thing that happened.
	And I'll leave it at that.
	You know, I have no way of knowing.
	I always offer up what could be.
	I mean, you know, I don't try to make absolute statements.
	And that will apply later in my little narrative.
	Next item was: I was doing a show.
	It was about 10:30 at night.
	I began to get texts lighting up my phone saying, Aren't somebody shooting in front of your studio?
	Who are they from?
	Bear in mind, I live on a dead end street.
	My studio is at the end of the dead end street.
	There's a road behind the house and behind the studio, and anybody who's going to go shoot surely would take off to the BLM land west of this house, immediately west.
	It starts at the end of my fence.
	So I kind of freaked out.
	I mean, I hadn't heard it myself.
	What do you mean there's people shooting?
	Well, pretty soon I'm getting more texts, more neighbors saying the same thing.
	And one of my neighbors, Dorothy, actually, it's very interesting.
	When I filed the first police report, which was at about as soon as I got off the air, my neighbor, my immediate neighbor, is the one who had called the police.
	He didn't see anything.
	He heard the shots and called the police.
	And he made a police report and said, well, there was a can of beer out there, and maybe it was somebody drunk or something.
	That was behind his house, not here.
	Then I talked to my neighbor Dorothy.
	She actually witnessed the car drive up, go to the end here.
	The guy pulled out a rifle and let loose with about four or five what she described as high-powered rifle shots.
	You know, you can tell, if you're a gun person, you know.
	Aimed at what?
	Well, she thought aimed at my house.
	So she explicitly told you, I think he was aiming at your house.
	Well, she, yeah, she said aiming at the house.
	Now, we checked the next day, of course, and didn't find any holes.
	I filed a second police report.
	It was almost like two in the morning.
	I had the cops back.
	And we do have somebody that we suspect.
	Now, I can't obviously say the name of that person.
	Have you told the police?
	Yeah, yeah.
	And they told me to, you know, get an order keeping him away, keeping this person away.
	Do they feel there's enough evidence that, I mean, to get an order, don't you have to present evidence that it's warranted?
	Yeah, they felt there was.
	But, you know, here's the problem.
	Yeah, they thought there was enough to get an order.
	But here's the problem.
	In my experience, and I've been through this rodeo a bunch of times.
	If you get such an order, it frequently, more frequently than not, pisses off the other person to the point that they get worse.
	You know, they get served an order like that, and they get really ticked off.
	Well, it's a direct announcement of your displeasure with that person.
	Well, it is.
	That's right.
	No, so I didn't do that.
	Like I say, I've been down that road before.
	So that's pretty scary.
	They didn't find any brass out there, but people can collect their own brass or have that right on the rifle to collect it.
	But they didn't find any.
	That was a freaky incident.
	When I had the police back at 2 a.m., second time, I gave them Dorothy's number.
	They went down and interviewed Dorothy, who said what I just told you.
	Now, that police report has not been made public.
	I asked the sheriff's department here to make it public, and they haven't done that yet.
	Why, I don't know, but I was pulling teeth to get them to put up what they did put up on their website.
	You know, that's not a usual thing for them to do.
	And they did it at my request.
	Anyway, that was incident number one, which, you know, I kind of concluded, well, somebody is trying to scare the hell out of me.
	And by the way, it was working.
	It's scary.
	And so I left it at that.
	Then more time goes by.
	You know, these were like two and three weeks apart.
	Right.
	Things that occurred.
	And when someone asks you, okay, give me, I mean, if you're not prepared to just go one by one and list everything.
	The second one was about 20 minutes before airtime, I have a light outside, and I had, at this point, we're nervous.
	So I had my wife watching my outside light, and it went on.
	And she got hold of me, and I went to the door, which is, you know, the light is next to the door.
	It's, you know, double floodlights, right?
	And I went to the door and opened the door.
	And of course, at this point, the floodlights are right in my damn face.
	So it blinds you pretty well.
	But nevertheless, I was able to look down and I saw somebody in dark clothing.
	And I had a gun in my hand.
	I had a Glock in my hand.
	You are absolutely sure it was a human being.
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	He was kneeling down near my window, which is where the internet wires and such come in.
	Did Erin see him through the window or she only saw the light come on?
	No, she saw the light come on.
	The minute I opened the door, he started moving.
	He went west and over the fence into the BLM area.
	But you know what?
	Here's something I want to say.
	I had a Glock just for maybe a second or a second and a half before he got behind the house.
	I had this, or to the side of the house where I couldn't see him.
	I had the Glock leveled at him.
	And when I got off the air, I called the police, filed a report.
	They sent deputies out.
	They tried to look for footprints.
	We have very, very hard ground here.
	So hard that you can go out there and stomp on it and not make a footprint.
	If it rains, it's all mud, but when it's dry, it's really hard.
	And so obviously no footprints.
	But when it really hit me was the next day.
	The next day, it really hit me.
	You know, I had my finger on the trigger.
	And maybe it's something that hits you later, but I came within a tiny little finger squeeze of shooting at that fleeing figure.
	And boy, the next day that hit me, I thought, my God, you know, I could have killed somebody.
	I mean, just you could have been a centimeter away from your life-changing.
	Yeah, that's right.
	And, you know, I talked to the police or the sheriff's department when they came, and I said, what if I had shot him?
	And the sheriff said, well, you could say you were in fear of your life, which would be fair, and you'd probably be okay.
	You know, I live on posted land.
	I have fence, five-foot fence with, you know, it's posted, no trespassing.
	But then again, there's a lot more that can happen.
	I mean, you might or might not get away with it, number one.
	And number two, if this person has a family, you might well get sued, you know, for a death, even if you didn't get hauled off to jail or whatever.
	I mean, the whole thing hit me the next day, and it was like, oh, my God, what I went, I just went, almost did.
	So that was that one.
	The next major one and final one that I'll tell you about, of course, there was the phone call, but for those who want to ask questions about that, I have had threatening phone calls and threatening emails for decades.
	I mean, decades.
	It's just the nature of this business.
	If you have millions of people or even 100,000 people, whatever it is, listening to you, I can promise you one-tenth of 1% are off their rockers big time.
	And they send lots of death threats, and I'm used to it.
	It may sound strange to get used to it, but you do.
	And when you call the police about a death threat, they always say, look, yeah, it's not nice to get, but you know what?
	People who talk don't do.
	That's always the police advice.
	People who talk don't do.
	And so that's been in my mind forever.
	And on top of that, at that point, I thought it was some little, the guy sounded very young.
	What did he say?
	Maybe even teens.
	If you go on the air tonight, you and your family are dead.
	That's verbatim what he said?
	Yep.
	That's verbatim.
	And then he hung up, or did it go on beyond that?
	Pardon me?
	Did it go on beyond that?
	Or is that all he said to me?
	Yeah, that was it.
	Click.
	Really?
	It's a block call.
	So anyway, so I did not at that point report it because it's like one of my, I actually get, I would say, a death threat a week.
	And even now, being off the air, I'm still on 5 million email lists, so I still get threats.
	No matter what you say, Mike, Michael, somebody is going to hate it.
	You know, somebody's going to love it.
	Some are going to go, eh.
	And maybe one or two are just going to hate it and you.
	Well, if I could, I mean, you should see some of the things.
	Just in announcing this show, just in sending out an email to tell everyone, hey, the show is going to happen.
	If you were a member of Bell Gab, you probably want to know that Art Bell is going to be on the GabCast.
	So I send out this notification.
	And just in the course of doing that, and I'm a nobody, you should see the things that are thrown back at me.
	So yes, I would imagine you see a lot.
	Oh, yeah.
	And on top of that, I thought it was a kid piling on, you know, after the rifle shots outside my house, frankly.
	After everything going on, I thought it was a kid piling on, and I still do.
	So I don't put much stock in that.
	But then there was one final really incident that did it.
	And again, I was coming to work here at the guest house, or actually at the guest house.
	And I've got a little key light on the chain or on the fence there so I can see the lock to unlock it every night when I would go over there.
	And man, I got up to that point.
	I'm carrying my work for the night, paperwork, coffee, my keys.
	You know, I'm at this point armed, so I'm carrying a gun.
	I've got my cell phone.
	I'm loaded down with stuff.
	And just as I was about to try and work the key into the lock, which is interesting to do, you know, it's just a regular old lock with one key in one hand, there was a shot fired.
	And I am convinced it was a shot.
	It was a 22.
	You know, I've been around guns all my life.
	I know what they sound like.
	And that's what I told the police, by the way, that it was a 22, but, you know, could have been a firecracker, but I don't think so.
	Sounded like a 22.
	Do you now regret saying that you thought it was a mess?
	I'm sorry.
	Go ahead.
	Yeah, I do regret saying that because I know damn well it was a gun.
	Anyway, when it went off, it came from the west, BLM land, just to the west of me, immediately.
	And there was no moon.
	It was black.
	I mean, it was as black as you can imagine a night could be.
	If you look it up, it was a new moon.
	And I had no target.
	I had a gun, but I had no target.
	I threw everything into the air, including my coffee, and I hit the ground pretty hard.
	You know, I went flat, and it was all I could think to do.
	I got my gun out once I hit the ground, actually, but I had no target.
	And so what I did was I called my wife because out here we have no cell service.
	You might have one bar if you stand on your head, you know, and hold it just right.
	So no cell service.
	And as I lay on the ground, none at all.
	But we do have Wi-Fi here, and we have Wi-Fi calling.
	So I utilized the Wi-Fi to call my wife and said, call the police.
	And I laid there for 20 minutes waiting for the sheriff's department.
	And they finally came screeching up about three cars.
	And I was petrified.
	And the reason I was petrified, I don't mind admitting that, is because I couldn't see a damn thing.
	Nothing.
	It was so black here.
	After laying there for 20 minutes, I was shaken.
	And I went in the house.
	I made a police report and all that.
	But man, I was shaken up.
	Now, you know, the police say they found no brass, but they wouldn't.
	If you were to ever see even a satellite picture of where I am, you would see that I'm surrounded by desert, scrub, desert.
	Somebody fired from that scrub desert.
	Now, they did take a ride along the road behind me and look for brass there.
	Found none on the road.
	But I'd wager to say you'd find quite a bit of brass if you were to walk that yard really carefully looking for brass.
	I say yard, it's, you know, desert scrub is what it is.
	So that was the third incident.
	And at that point, and I went on after a lot of these incidents or stayed on.
	For example, the night the call came, I went on that night.
	No problem.
	I was just angry about it, but I went on and didn't report it until the next incident.
	And at that point, the police said, oh, did you know your producer had called in that threat you got the other night?
	I said, yes, I know.
	And yes, it was a threat and happened as she described.
	I didn't know she had done that.
	So there you have it.
	That's the things as they occurred.
	Now, the day after the big incident, my wife and I sat down.
	And my wife told me that during that time, my daughter was curled up in bed crying and scared in the dark because she had instructed my daughter to go into the bedroom, turn off the light, lay down, and don't move.
	She was scared.
	Police cars were screaming in.
	And my wife said, enough.
	She said, enough.
	You know, I mean, we've gone with this and enough.
	It's got to end.
	And that's literally within moments, I sat down and wrote that infamous, I won't be on tonight or any other night.
	You know, it was a big mistake.
	But I had been without sleep.
	When these kinds of things happen to you, you don't sleep.
	What was the mistake?
	Was it quitting or just that actual message?
	The mistake was how I said it, because the world immediately took that as they should to mean he's never going to be back.
	Yeah, they read the words.
	Yeah.
	Now, you know, if I'd had more time to think it over, more sleep, hadn't been so stressed out, maybe I wouldn't have typed that, but I did.
	And when I did, I burned a bridge.
	I know that.
	I blew that.
	I should have thought harder and longer about it.
	But when my wife sat me down and told me that, I went, okay, that's it.
	And I don't know how you and your wife are, but if she told you something like that, probably you'd pay attention.
	Or if not, at your peril.
	Yeah.
	I don't wear the, well, I try to wear the pants in this house, but I don't.
	I understand exactly what you're saying.
	And people who are not married, it is hard to understand that relationship between man and woman when woman comes to you with a certainty in her eye and says, this is over with.
	Whatever it is.
	It has to do with the daughter.
	Yep.
	So what's the status with the police on this?
	Where does everything go from here?
	Well, that's the problem.
	There's nowhere to go with it exactly right now.
	In other words, as I mentioned to you, I gave actually a lot of information about the person that I think it might be, including the picture, to the police.
	Whether there's anything ongoing with that or not, I don't know.
	I mean, there's only so much they can do.
	Well, I guess what I'm asking you in a roundabout.
	Please have to catch somebody at it, usually.
	Right.
	You know, they actually have to catch them at it.
	So now I've gone six weeks.
	There's been no repeat yet, which makes me pretty damn sure on a lot of levels, by the way, with regard to this person, I suspect that it was related to the show.
	I can't be positive.
	As I mentioned, I always say what's on my mind.
	It's like I told the police it could have been a firecracker because I didn't want to rule it out.
	I think it was when they asked me if I heard a ricochet.
	You know, they asked me if I heard a pass my head, you know, you can hear a bullet going by.
	Or if I heard it ricochet against something, and I didn't.
	And I told them, I said, no, you know, maybe it was a firecracker like that.
	And of course, that got reported.
	Well, I guess when I ask you what's the resolution here with regard to the police, what I'm really asking you in a roundabout way is how and or when are you going to be back on the air?
	I mean, obviously, from what you've said publicly, what you're waiting for is a feeling of safety.
	What does safety look like?
	Yeah, that's a really good question.
	What does safety look like?
	Okay, so there's a lot of things I can't talk about.
	Safety involves security.
	I'm doing a lot of work in the area of security.
	But, and you're going to ask me what?
	Well, I don't, and I can't.
	No, I don't want to know.
	Okay.
	All right.
	So, you know, to some degree, it involves security.
	But here's something that I've thought about a million nights.
	You know, I live in double-wide mobile homes.
	Nice, very nice ones, albeit, but double-wide mobile homes.
	If you take a high-powered rifle and fire at a double-wide mobile home, pretty much it goes through one side, whatever it gets is in the way of inside, and out the other side.
	I mean, you know, it's like a hot knife through butter.
	Sardine can.
	Yeah.
	i'm totally willing to take that risk for myself but not my family well what i'm sorry go ahead You know, no, I didn't have much more to say.
	You know, I'm describing to you what I think about at night and what I thought about really hard as all this was going on.
	God, that's a scary feeling.
	I know it's easy for people to sit out there who haven't been shot at or been through this and say, oh, come on, don't be a pussy, right?
	But if it happens to you, it's really a horse of a different color.
	And if your family's involved, it's really a different color.
	When you have children, your entire outlook on the environment, you're surrounded by changes.
	I sit there sometimes, like if I'm lying in bed at night, having a hard time going to sleep.
	I mean, you'll sit there and envision, you know, I really need to do this so my kid doesn't get hurt in that way.
	Maybe I should do that too so my kid doesn't get hurt in that way.
	Why did I do that?
	You go through these things in your, it's almost an, it's an insanity on some level almost once you become a parent.
	So I think also one could say that the people who have leveled the harshest criticism toward you with regard to this matter probably in a lot of those cases are not parents either.
	I would say not.
	Again, I can't tell you how many nights I've spent sitting with a gun next to me worried about what didn't look.
	Here's a hard, cruel fact.
	If somebody wants to get you, they're pretty much going to get you, even if you're armed.
	I mean, here I am walking along, right, with my coffee and stuff in both hands, trying to get a key into the lock.
	And so I'm very vulnerable at that point.
	It could be this person was just trying to scare me.
	Well, success.
	They did.
	It did scare me.
	And again, for me, the final straw was my wife.
	When she said enough, it's affecting our daughter very negatively.
	That was it.
	That's what turned the trick.
	So really, you don't know how to define safety or what it's going to look like or when it would facilitate your return, if ever.
	Real safety would be if this bastard got caught.
	But let's say he does get caught and maybe he gets out on bail.
	And then once he does finally, if the system manages to convict him, then he goes to jail for six months, maybe.
	I don't know what the stalking laws are.
	We have them.
	We have them.
	But to put any real teeth into it, they'd have to prove that he misused a firearm.
	That's pretty tough.
	Right.
	You're right.
	I know.
	So I don't know what constitutes safety.
	I am putting a lot of things into place.
	And yeah, I don't want to talk about it, but I'm working in that direction.
	What might I do?
	Maybe I come back and try a show one night and see what happens.
	That's in my mind.
	I haven't made a firm decision about that yet, but probably I'll try it.
	I sure hope you do.
	I really think that that would just be such a release valve for a lot of people.
	And not so much for me, though.
	Even, you know, I've thought about this.
	You think ahead when this kind of stuff happens.
	All right, so let's say I do a show successfully.
	Does that mean that I'm safe?
	Not necessarily.
	But what is the connector between not doing the show and remaining safe?
	I'm not sure that's necessarily been established.
	All I can point to is how long has it been?
	Six weeks, something like that, since I've been off?
	Yeah, seven.
	Nothing has happened.
	Well, yeah, I mean, that is a connecting dot.
	It's the only one I've got right now.
	And so, as I mentioned, even if I came and did a random show unannounced ahead of time, which I'd love to do, am I safe?
	Am I safe after that show?
	I don't know.
	When you quit, my immediate reaction was to think, you know, and I'm sorry, my kids are pounding on the walls or something, and it's reverberating through the mic arm.
	But anyway, my immediate reaction was to think, you know what, I just don't think Art wants to do the show anymore.
	Oh, no.
	Oh, God.
	Yeah, I've seen people say that.
	How wrong could that possibly be?
	At the time that I left, we could not have been better positioned.
	And by that, I mean the audience was going up in droves and droves and droves here online.
	Affiliates were jumping on.
	KBC, of course, was on.
	New Orleans was about to come on.
	Philadelphia was about to come on.
	We had a deal working with Cumulus that was about to close.
	Oh, my God.
	Look, I sunk everything into this.
	I sunk a lot of money into building studio.
	I sunk a lot of money into every aspect of this and my heart.
	So it was going so, so well.
	And it's heartbreaking.
	You know, I know that.
	It's heartbreaking.
	Now, I want to say something, and that is to the old regular Belgab members.
	You know, I've been a member a bunch of years now.
	I am so sorry.
	Really, I'm so sorry because you guys helped out build the show, get it going.
	So you have my most sincere apologies.
	Nobody feels worse than I do, but I understand how you feel, and I'm sorry.
	Really sorry.
	It was important for me to say to that, you know, to the ingress of all the nasty people that have come to the board, the trolls.
	Screw all of you.
	Well, some of it has been, I mean, well, let me ask, before I make that point, I want to ask you, when you hit that, when you had that moment where you realized, okay, the show's over, did you anticipate the reaction that eventually manifested?
	No.
	Well, I mean, I knew, actually, I didn't know what was going to happen at that point.
	I did, the minute I posted that on Facebook, that was a killer.
	I mean, I admit it.
	I blew it.
	I shouldn't have posted that.
	Why don't you get a PR guy, Art?
	You're an emotional guy who does things in the moment, and this is actually what draws people to you.
	But it's a liability in some situations.
	I know it's got pluses, it's got minuses, but I always let it all out on the air.
	And I guess I always will.
	And that's what I'm doing tonight, just letting it all out.
	Well, I think this is a nice sit-down.
	I think it's a comfortable atmosphere.
	I'm enjoying this greatly.
	Oh, yeah, that's me.
	Why don't I get a PR guy?
	For the same reason, you know, people said, oh, hire some guard.
	I said that too, yes.
	Yeah, I went through that with the premier.
	They hired guards for me.
	Why?
	Because I was getting death threats.
	I had people threatening to kill me.
	So this was just an ongoing series of events.
	Yeah, this is not new.
	It's gone on in my career.
	So they hired guards.
	And it was, look, I'm a very private person.
	I live out here in the middle of nowhere on purpose.
	And to have these guys, they check in with you.
	They're very obvious.
	They're very annoying.
	It was, I hated it.
	I really, really, really hated it.
	And, you know, anyway, how long can you be guarded, right?
	Well, here's my thought on the matter.
	And I heard through the grapevine.
	I mean, I know people.
	Come on.
	I heard through the grapevine well before it was publicly revealed that this cumulus thing was on the table.
	Oh, yeah.
	So that means the potential airing of your show on hundreds of radio stations.
	Oh, yeah.
	It means potential millions of dollars on the table.
	For the life of me, I can't understand why with all of those eventual, that just windfall of money that was about to potentially roll in, it just seems that something could have been done to secure your safety.
	Never thought about the money, Michael.
	Really?
	Really?
	Never, ever.
	I don't do this for the money.
	But Art, you're 70 and your wife and child are significantly young.
	They're going to be here a lot longer than you are.
	I would be thinking a lot about money.
	Oh, I have, and they will be fine.
	So, no, no, I don't need the money.
	And that isn't why I did this.
	I did this because I love it.
	That's the honest God truth.
	absolutely love radio.
	It's in my blood.
	It's...
	So, yeah, I know people were saying, well, you know, he was just getting tired of it.
	I don't get tired of radio.
	It's not so much that I mean to imply that your primary motivation in doing what you did in front of the microphone was money.
	It's just that with the imminent windfall that was about to occur, it just seems like the resources could have been applied to the situation.
	I mean, money fixes a lot of problems.
	That's my only point.
	Yeah, if you want to be guarded, guards are expensive.
	And yes, you could have a 24-hour, you could have a 24-hour guard, because remember, it's not just here that I was worried about.
	In the house, it was going over there every night.
	And then I had to worry about the main house, and that's a lot of guarding.
	And as I mentioned to you, I've been through that and been there.
	It's no fun.
	It's no way to live.
	What about the idea of just living in another location?
	Or do you think you'd just be making a lateral move, possibly?
	Well, you know, I suppose I could go and I've thought about this.
	We talked about moving.
	We could even go back to the Philippines.
	Right.
	That's not ruled out.
	Everybody would love you just as much from their art.
	That's still a discussion.
	Well, dealing with people in the Philippines trying to get an ISD in line is like pulling teeth, but it can be done.
	I would make a few phone calls to Manila and find out what, you know, things that you came back in, what, 2006?
	2009.
	Well, I think between 2009 and now, I'll bet you you'd be really surprised at what's happened in terms of sending ones and zeros in Manila.
	Do you know how many people you've got to bribe over there to get what you want?
	Oh, I know it's like that in all of these overseas countries.
	Yes.
	I hate to call, would you say, I hate to say third world countries?
	The Philippines is considered a third world country, is it not?
	It is.
	Yeah, that's the way.
	I mean, everything works on bribery.
	I've been to Morocco many times and everything you want.
	You can get a driver's license?
	Okay.
	You better know somebody.
	You want to get a birth certificate?
	Okay.
	Well, that's going to be fun.
	Have a good time.
	It's like that with everything.
	That's right.
	All that's done and more.
	And so if you come up with the right money and put it in the right hands, things get done.
	If not, hey, never going to happen.
	Well, I hope that something happens so that this situation can break.
	Here's an interesting thing.
	Here's the thing, Michael.
	My daughter's in school.
	My daughter is as American as they get now.
	She doesn't speak a lick of Tagalog.
	Really?
	That's right.
	And she just won her school spelling B. She's going on to the district now.
	So she's a very bright girl, doing really well, straight A's in school.
	And pulling her out, if we took her to Manila, we would have to put her in a private international school.
	After a few years of which she'd have an English accent.
	That's right.
	It seems that all of these foreign English teaching schools, they come from the British perspective.
	That's just what people in these countries seem to prefer.
	That's a fact.
	And in addition to just making sure you don't get your head blasted off as you're walking to your radio shack, your family does have to continue living their lives.
	People have to go shopping.
	People have to go to the dentist.
	That's right.
	There's school, as you just mentioned.
	I mean, there is more.
	I just think that you lived in a big condo, a big high rise in Manila, right?
	I think that would be a 19th floor.
	Oh, yeah.
	Boy, that sounds safe to me, Art.
	And I still own it.
	Oh, my.
	Book a flight.
	Let's get some shows.
	There's more.
	As I mentioned, my daughter's in school.
	You know, you've got these.
	I'm just being flipped.
	All these things to consider.
	I've made that move several times.
	Let me ask you this.
	If you came back, as you mentioned, some bridges have been burned, some things have been blown up here.
	And if you come back, I know that when you do these things, you like to do them big.
	That's one of the reasons you were displeased with SiriusXM.
	It just didn't feel to you as though you were broadcasting to an audience with capital A.
	I did not quit SiriusXM, as it were.
	I simply served them up with an ultimatum that, look, without going all the way through this, the streaming service sucked.
	And most of my people were coming in on the streaming service.
	And I said, look, all I'm asking is let them stream for free until you fix it.
	Or else, you'll recall my all-in statement.
	That was my all-in proposition.
	Let me stream for free just until you fix the damn thing.
	And then you can go right behind the paywall again.
	And everybody will be happy.
	And they said no.
	So, yeah, I left.
	I totally understood that decision.
	SiriusXM was renowned for years prior to your arrival there.
	They were renowned for problems with their streaming service.
	It was always a bad deal.
	By the way, it was worldwide.
	When I was employed, they said, oh, it's worldwide.
	No, it's not.
	You know, I actually had to help people in foreign countries purchase.
	They had to send me money, and I had to purchase their SiriusXM account for them so they could listen to your show.
	Thank you.
	You're welcome.
	That's why I told you that.
	I wanted to be properly thanked.
	I made you literally tens of dollars.
	Come on.
	Let's.
	So, my point in mentioning your displeasure with SiriusXM is not to necessarily force you to tell that whole story because everybody knows that story.
	My point is that you like to do things big.
	And so if you did return to Midnight in the Desert, I think you might not be returning to quite the infrastructure you had when you left.
	Is that going to be displeasing to you?
	No.
	No, no.
	I love doing radio.
	Yeah, sure.
	I would love to have had everything go through that was about to go through.
	Oh, God.
	I don't even want to think about it.
	It makes me sick.
	I make myself sick.
	But no, that wouldn't affect me.
	I could come on and do a show just on the internet and be happy as a clam.
	Before you started in Midnight in the Desert, I publicly said many times, you watch this show is going to wind up being heard on terrestrial radio.
	A lot of people thought I was an idiot.
	I knew what was going to happen because it can't not happen.
	And I mean, it wasn't anything.
	After a while, I went out and once they started coming in droves, I said, well, okay, let's advertise in and see what happens.
	And boy, oh, boy, was it catching on?
	Well, why the change in philosophy there on your part?
	Because prior to the show actually coming to life, the thought of it being heard on terrestrial radio seemed anathema to you.
	I wasn't, I didn't want to get back into the same situation.
	In other words, had we consummated the deal with Cumulus, it would have been just a handshake deal.
	They weren't going to buy us.
	I would never, ever, ever allow anybody to buy us.
	So if you thought that's what it was about, no way.
	We were just going to come to a handshake deal where they needed a good show to put on in that time slot.
	And we had a good show.
	And they contacted us from New York and said, let's make a deal.
	And that just meant a handshake deal.
	We'll carry you on stations.
	You carry some commercial minutes for us.
	And that would have been the deal.
	That's it.
	It was everything everybody wanted for so many years.
	We just wanted to see you so desperately trounced George Norrie and the premiere radio machine.
	We were so close to the precipice.
	The same thing was in my head, Michael.
	Oh, yeah, we're all on the same side here ultimately, I think.
	And then look, we had achieved the vehicle to do it.
	In other words, look, what we did sounded spectacular on the air.
	The audio product was 100 times better than anything I'd ever done before.
	I was having so much fun.
	You see, I'm just, you know, this will depress me talking about it.
	You know, the fact that you're here, a lot of people, myself included, actually, are kind of surprised by not that you would come here, but the fact that, and I'm delighted you're here.
	Don't get, please, Art Bell's here.
	I'm talking to Art Bell, everybody.
	Hey, how's it going?
	Please, it's great.
	But it's odd because here's Midnight in the Desert, your show, and you've not made a single appearance on that show since all of this went down.
	But here's the first place people are hearing you once again right here on the Gabcast.
	And I'm why is that?
	Well, because I can do it safely.
	I mean, do you mean that literally?
	Really?
	You know, I'm in my own home.
	I can do it safely.
	So actually, yes, you're not sitting.
	You don't have to walk to the radio house.
	You're probably on your couch right now, aren't you?
	No.
	I'm hoping.
	I'm sitting in a chair.
	We want you to be something a little more formal for this show, Art.
	Please.
	Come on.
	Here's a question.
	Heather says routinely on Midnight in the Desert that she's keeping the seat warm for you.
	And I'm wondering for how much longer she's going to continue saying that.
	And instead, it's just going to be, you know what, this is Heather's show.
	I guess my ultimate question is, when do you finally say, I am not coming back if you're not coming back?
	I don't have an answer for that.
	As I mentioned, I may well come and do a show or two, or maybe I'll do a show a week or two shows a week.
	You know, I'll pick some point unannounced and just come back and do a show and see how that goes.
	Kind of the way I've been doing these last six weeks, I haven't been on the air and everything's been okay.
	So what do I do?
	I do one show, I guess, and see what happens.
	And then maybe if nothing happens, maybe I do two shows five days a week.
	I don't think I'm coming back to that.
	See, I have burned, severely burned a bridge.
	I know that.
	When I said what I said, Aphillas went, you know, kaboom.
	So nothing I can do about that, my own stupidity.
	They're gone.
	Doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy being on the air.
	I always enjoy being.
	So, you know, it's still in sort of Netherland right now.
	I can't give you any firm answers.
	I know you want them and people want them, but I don't.
	I don't know how you would answer that question.
	I think my real motivation behind that question, though, is from Heather's perspective to have to continue telling people that she's keeping a seat warm, that assumes a level of assumes a temporary situation on her part.
	And it hamstrings her in growing into the show.
	And I think that Heather should say this is Midnight in the Desert with Heather Wade.
	That's what she does, and she should not be filling in for me.
	She should make it her own, and I'd be very proud if she did that.
	And, you know, I want to say this.
	Having been a member of Bell Gab for years, I am kind of shocked.
	You know, it's not everybody, but I mean, she is one of your own, Michael.
	Yes.
	And so.
	You feel more should have been done to protect her in the public discourse?
	Well, yeah, I do.
	You know, I think just being a confirmed Bell Gabber for years, she deserves that.
	I totally understand that philosophy.
	And I totally understand why you would be upset by other things that people said that weren't removed.
	Oh, God.
	Yeah, all that ridiculous stuff.
	That's why I said for the trolls out there.
	But what you have to understand is that if I when you quit, and I said this on the show, I think, a couple weeks ago, or maybe I posted it.
	I don't know.
	But when you quit, I just knew what was about to come.
	Oh my God, here it comes.
	And so I decided in that moment, okay, I am not going to censor the forum or moderate it in any way unless something illegal is presented to me, unless something that could be construed as illegal speech, slander, whatever, could be presented to me.
	And when I've been presented with that, I have removed what's been asked of me.
	Okay, then you can confirm.
	Somebody sent me an email and said that DP, you know who that is.
	Yes.
	Said something libelous.
	And I sent off a message to you about it.
	And then I went and looked at it myself and I said, oh, no, that's not really libel.
	And you can confirm for the folks listening.
	I sent you a message and said, no, leave it alone.
	It's not libel.
	Yeah, you sent me the initial message and I responded with, and you just gave me a kind of a vague impression of what it was he said.
	But I said, well, what specifically was it that he said that was actually libelous, though?
	I mean, it may have been in bad taste.
	He may have been an asshole for saying it.
	He was.
	And yes, he was.
	But you did come back and you said, no, you know, whatever.
	It's not libel.
	Leave it.
	And so the one thing that I did say was libel was libel.
	Let's move on to something else here.
	Well, it's kind of something else, but it still pertains to the Dark Matter Radio Network.
	Okay.
	Richard C. Hoagland, I don't listen to his show, but I see references on the forum routinely about him taking passive-aggressive swipes at Heather during his show, which airs, and she is hosting the flagship show, at least to my knowledge, on the Dark Matter Radio Network.
	And I keep seeing things people are saying about him taking little passive-aggressive swipes at her.
	And then I see a message posted publicly by Keith Rowland in which he articulates that Heather was the second or the third choice, I don't remember, to take your place.
	No, it's not true.
	She was the first choice.
	Your first choice.
	My first choice.
	But he doesn't give the impression that that was his first choice.
	Might not have been.
	But the fact that he publicly said that, I guess my point is, I get the feeling that Heather is surrounded by some people who may not necessarily want her to succeed.
	I don't think that's true.
	You not being one of them, of course.
	You've been her biggest booster.
	I talk to her daily.
	I encourage her.
	I give her advice.
	I do everything in my power to help.
	Keith is Keith.
	And Keith is ones and zeros.
	Yeah, really.
	I mean, that's Keith, ones and zeros.
	So even when I was doing the show, when I was first doing it, I didn't have anybody I could talk to.
	You know, I would try to talk to Keith about the show.
	Well, he's not interested in the content.
	So it's like talking to the wall.
	Keith, you know I'm right.
	If you're listening.
	So he loves his computers and he does a good job at what he does, but he's not anybody to bounce anything off of, you know, from a talent perspective.
	So in posting that message he posted, you kind of attribute it to that just aspect of his personality.
	I don't know what he posted.
	Well, it's either on, it's on artbell.com.
	It's a let me give our side of things post where he talks about some guy who went on his show on the Dark Matter Network and said a bunch of nasty things.
	And then he gets down a paragraph or two later and he mentions that Howard Hughes and somebody else were considered before Heather.
	I just thought that was really low rent, I guess is what I'm saying.
	Yeah, he's speaking for himself.
	He may have.
	Actually, no, he's not.
	Let me tell you that Howard Hughes and a couple other people were considered not for Heather's spot, but for the three hours prior to midnight.
	We thought that Howard Hughes would have been really great doing the three hours prior to MITD, and we had been talking to him, oh my God, for months about it.
	And Michael, I think it was Michael Vera, was the other one that we had talked to about doing a show prior to MITD.
	So that's what he's talking about.
	Why Michael Vera?
	Well, we wanted, you know, MITD is a good show that then dumps listeners to Richard, right?
	And we thought, why not have a show ahead of MITD, a good show, that would dump listeners into MITD.
	It makes sense.
	Well, I mean, I'm not debating whether he had a - I guess my point is, did he have a good show?
	Because the only thing I've ever heard from him was that little snippet of audio where he rants against you guys.
	And I just thought, in terms of his prowess as a broadcaster, I'm not particularly impressed.
	So that's why I ask.
	It is subjective.
	True.
	He did a passable, you know, paranormal show, and Howard, even more so, in my opinion.
	I liked Howard.
	I personally talked to Howard and tried to talk him into it, and he's not going for it.
	Are you paying any money out of your own pocket to keep this thing going?
	No.
	Zero.
	So entirely, and I'm guessing the same model still exists.
	Heather gets a chunk out of the money she makes.
	Hoagland gets a chunk out of what he makes.
	Everything.
	Right.
	Right.
	Heather and Keith have an arrangement, and a percentage goes here and there.
	How'd you find Belgab?
	How did I find Belgab?
	Yeah, think back all those years.
	What were you typing into Google that led you to Belgab?
	Or did somebody tell you about it?
	Do you recall?
	I don't really want to say, but I think I was typing a phrase that originally came from another site.
	You know what I'm talking about.
	GNS.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I suspected as much.
	I just wanted to make you say it.
	Well, let me ask you this.
	We know you read the Art Bell thread with regularity.
	Do you read any other threads or any other sections of the form regularly?
	Sure.
	I look at Heather's thread, of course.
	Oh, God, I'm sorry.
	That's a crusty disaster at times, that thread.
	Right.
	Look, here's the thing.
	Yes, people are upset.
	So for any given night, I don't care how well Heather does, and she's had some good shows, you know, it's not going to go well on her thread on Bellgab.
	So to balance that, you can go to, well, DM Talk, Twitter, or you can go to, you know, the groups that are put together for this sort of thing.
	If they're negative, then you've got a problem.
	But, you know, Bellgab being negative is a norm.
	It really is.
	Everybody's quite disgruntled over there.
	They are.
	And I don't know if that's a reflection on my own personality because I posted the first message.
	True, Michael.
	Well, there's an argument to be made.
	Actually, I'm a little disappointed in myself in some ways now.
	I have to say.
	It's not you.
	It's not you.
	Oh, here's a good one.
	I will say this.
	I will say this, Michael.
	There was a time, I recall, on Belgab, because I have been there daily for years now, when I don't know whether you regularly did it at Christmas or you set a special day and you freed all the inmates, right?
	Yes.
	I do that from time to time, yes.
	All right.
	Well, that, to some degree, I think is why it's in the shape it's in right now.
	Aside from my contribution.
	Well, yeah, thank you for tossing that into the mix.
	Well, I mean, you let convicts out and what happens?
	You know, people get hurt.
	Well, that's, I mean, here's how I see Belgab.
	I see it as a script running on a server.
	This is where the Keith Rowland in me comes out.
	And I try and separate my perception of it from the emotions that may otherwise well up within me when I see what people say.
	It's why I don't ban people for political opinion.
	The only political opinion I ban on the forum is Nazi propaganda.
	Well, you had people banned.
	What were they banned for?
	Oh, God, who knows?
	I mean, there have been people who, I mean, it's arbitrary, I will admit.
	I mean, there's not a commission.
	There's not a board, you know, and I'm not infallible, but I will always remove anything illegal.
	That's without a doubt.
	No, that's good.
	Let me ask you this.
	On Facebook, you posted that you essentially said that you, well, you kind of passed judgment on all of Belgab.
	I did.
	To some degree.
	and you encouraged people to steer clear of the place.
	And I'm wondering at this moment, do you still?
	No, I didn't encourage anybody to steer clear.
	I said I was going to steer clear, is what I said.
	Well, that may just be my poor recollection.
	I really felt that way, too.
	I mean, it was the worst of it going on, and reading it is too depressing.
	You know, they were going and posting things about, I wouldn't need to tell you or anybody else.
	Right.
	It's probably horrible things.
	And it wasn't good for my health.
	So I said, okay, that's it.
	But, you know, being the sucker I am for Belgab, and I am.
	I like Belgab.
	I've always liked Belgab.
	Here I am again.
	So.
	Well, that's my question.
	Well, do you still feel this sort of adversarial relationship at the moment between you and Belgab?
	Or do you feel that things are reaching some sort of an equilibrium at this point?
	Hmm.
	Well, I don't think they're back to vaguely lovable yet, if that's what you're asking.
	I could see you saying that.
	But on the other hand, they're not in the depths of depravity that they were in just two weeks ago.
	So I don't know.
	It was really rough.
	And I even told you in a private message, Art, enjoy your family.
	Stop reading Belgab.
	Stop reading.
	Who needs this?
	You're 70.
	Yeah.
	What are you doing?
	I am.
	I remind myself, 70.
	My God, how did that happen?
	Maybe it's a good thing that you keep forgetting that you're 70.
	Maybe that means you're really aging well.
	So far, so good.
	I'm headed to the dentist tomorrow.
	So, you know, I rationalize that, you know, going on the cast tonight's nothing.
	Just wait till I get to the dentist tomorrow.
	That'll be pain.
	Well, I'm glad you came here before the dentist.
	We don't need to hear you saying that.
	You come in sounding like Marlon Brando.
	Second Marlon Brando reference tonight for me, by the way.
	It's not going to go well.
	I already know.
	Over the years, you've spoken to so many people.
	And I'm not really taking in the I'm trying to separate myself from the awesomeness of just sitting here chatting with you at the moment.
	It's not that awesome for you to be chatting with me.
	I'm not that big a deal on that.
	Oh, stop it.
	I really wish you would stop saying that.
	You broadcasted to 15 million people for the, I mean, you were one of you were radio in a lot of ways in the 1990s.
	I mean, that is, that's an amazing thing.
	I mean, it's an amazing thing.
	You can't say that there's nothing special about you or that people shouldn't feel well.
	People feel there is.
	I don't feel there's something special about me.
	I do, I guess, have a talent for what I do, but beyond that, I'm just doing what I like.
	I never did it for the money.
	Never, never, never.
	But the money's nice, right?
	Come on.
	I mean, I remember a day that after I had left Coast that the president of Premier Radio and president of Clear Channel, the whole shebang, came sat on my couch and said, Name your price.
	And that's exactly what they said, verbatim.
	Name your price.
	And I said, Well, I'm going to have to think about it, but it's not money.
	And what you're going to do is you're going to knock off six minutes of commercials an hour.
	They said, deal.
	Worst deal I ever made in my life.
	Because I could have named my price.
	I could have gone for a lot of money, millions.
	But I wanted the commercial time gone.
	You know, people forget about these things.
	Insight into how I feel about the program.
	It's the program that's important, not money.
	There are people out there that are going to tell me that I was too coarse with you in some ways or I attacked you too much, or people who will, on the other opposite end of the spectrum, tell me that I wasn't hard enough on you.
	Yeah, that's what they're going to say.
	But people forget these things about you: that you were thinking about the listener in that moment.
	You really could have taken the money and run.
	And everything would have been groovy.
	Right.
	And those, it was stupid, though, because those commercial minutes, yes, they went away.
	But then when I finally went away, they came right back.
	So I always say that.
	Isn't that the truth?
	Yeah.
	I listen to Rush pretty regularly.
	And I listen to him via his podcast because terrestrial radio, terrestrial talk radio in 2016 is unlistenable.
	When you listen to his podcast, as you know, they have to remove the music.
	So it just each, it's broken into segments by each hour.
	And each of those segments is only about 31 minutes long.
	So you're getting 29 minutes of bullcrap to 31 minutes of actual content.
	Terrestrial radio is unlistenable.
	Try the same measurement with Coast.
	The numbers are not that favorable.
	I think they've got to be comparable.
	It's worse.
	And they're not even.
	The worst part of it all is that, in addition to all the commercial content, they're horrible advertisers.
	At least you had interesting advertisers back in the day on terrestrial.
	The biggest one I remember.
	And I want to know.
	And I always believed that you really did believe in the products that you advertised.
	Oh, I do believe in the products I advertise.
	I don't advertise.
	I don't put my name even to a commercial unless I believe in it.
	And one of the products that stands out in my mind from that era is it's this, I guess it's a giant magnet that you put around your pipe.
	It almost looks like a ferrite core that you'd put on an electric cable or something.
	I don't know.
	And you put it on the boy, does it work.
	Did it really?
	These are these gigantic magnets.
	I mean, they're big mamas.
	And what you do is you go to the point where the water enters your house.
	You dig down, you find the PVC pipe, you know, and put these magnets on.
	And I can tell you how big the difference is.
	In three days here at my studio, the toilets will have stuff on them.
	At this house, you never get it.
	I mean, you just never get it.
	So these magnets work.
	What they do, I guess, is in some way modify the molecules so it doesn't, you know, the minerals don't stick.
	I don't know exactly what it is, but it's magic.
	It works.
	Well, I guess all matter has some level of magnetic property to it, and there probably is something you could do to all matter to make it less susceptible to sticking to other surfaces.
	Yeah, you hit water with really a strong magnetic field, and it changes the minerals, of course, are magnetic to some degree.
	So it changes them.
	I don't know what it does, but it works.
	That product stands out in my mind.
	I don't even think they make them anymore.
	Well, they do.
	Oh, do they?
	I can't remember the name now, but I put it on and I was astounded, just astounded.
	Earlier, when I mentioned all the guests you've talked to over the years, and I think back on your career into the 90s and earlier, you've spoken to so many people, and I'm curious as to, and you've had a lot of charlatans on the air, not because you thought, not because you want to BS anybody, but it's just you put people on, they can sink or swim, people can make up their own minds.
	But in the course of having all these people on over the years, who would you say has been the most credible?
	The most credible.
	Well, the pure science people, I guess.
	Well, I'm talking more in terms of people who are making outlandish claims, but not outlandish in that the messenger seems not believable, but just really far-out stuff, I guess, is the best one.
	But at the same time, you see credibility.
	Probably, if you want to go off into that category of, you know, semi-crazy and who was semi-crazy, but somewhat credible, Mel, Mel's Hole.
	I still feel that way.
	And now I see people when they talk about Mel's Hole, they sort of dismiss it as, oh, that was great theater.
	That was great radio, but nothing more.
	But he really did sound so credible.
	The problem was when he came back the next time and he started going on about the.
	I know.
	That's something to watch for.
	And you know, you've got a good guest.
	With Bob Lazar, for example, I don't care how many times I have interviewed him.
	It's been a bunch.
	He always tells the same story.
	He doesn't up it a notch.
	He doesn't, you know, add a little of this or a little of that.
	You get the same story from Bob Lazar.
	And so he's got credibility in my mind just for doing that, for telling the same story every time.
	Most guests, you know, Mel, for example, my goodness, pretty soon, you know, people are getting cured of cancer who are going in, whatever.
	Story a little bit, right?
	And another example of that would be the alien and the doctor, Dr. Dr. Jonathan Reed.
	Yeah, he came back for another interview during the Sirius XM era.
	And he kind of, if I recall correctly, he juiced his story up a little bit.
	He did.
	He did.
	But he told a hell of a story.
	And it was always a good one.
	Yes.
	Now, I'm into that.
	I mean, if somebody can tell a really good story, even if they sound a little bit crazy, my way of doing things always dictated that I kept reeling out the rope, you know, and if they finally hung themselves, then, well, so be it.
	But if it sounded good, keep reeling out the rope.
	When in your broadcasting career, as you look back, which period do you most directly associate with feelings of happiness and satisfaction?
	M-I-T-D.
	Really?
	Yep.
	God, I really loved what we were doing.
	I mean, it was a whole new world.
	I don't know if you know or not, but I've got sip phones here, Michael.
	So the audio quality is astoundingly good.
	In fact, I'm working on managing to get the SIP lines that I've got here forwarded to Heather so she can enjoy that.
	Right now, she's trying to do it all on Skype, and it's rough.
	It's hard.
	So I'm going to try and get these lines forwarded to her.
	Yes, you know Skype well, don't you?
	When you say get these lines forwarded to her, you're talking about sending physical telos equipment to her?
	Yeah, and then, you know, having the lines.
	Well, I guess, though, that the immediate conclusion I would reach is that that makes you less likely to wind up coming back.
	No, not at all.
	Not at all.
	In other words, if they're forwarded, I could still go next door to my studio and unforward them and punch them up and use them here.
	So, no.
	Oh, we're just talking about where the packets flow then.
	Yeah, that's all.
	Oh, okay.
	I thought you meant like actually moving equipment.
	Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
	Moving the lines so that where she is, and I can't say where she is, but it's a long way from here, she would be able to use these lines.
	It would give her that option.
	Then she'd have phone lines and she would have Skype to work with.
	During the classic Art Bell era, and I say classic only in terms of thinking back in time, you know, that's what I mean by that.
	Ramona was instrumental in running things behind the scenes for you, wasn't she?
	Well, yes and no.
	In the early days, Michael, I did all of my own.
	I was my own producer.
	Okay.
	And as time, and Ramona helped a lot with that, the production end of things, talking to potential guests and that sort of thing.
	That's a big job.
	That's a big job, Michael, when you've got to start making calls, sending out emails, having talks with people, determining whether you want to put them on the air or not.
	My God, that's a big job.
	That's like all day working and then doing the show at night.
	So that gives you some idea of what Heather's going through, and Ramona helped me with that.
	So, yes, she was a great, great help.
	There's a transcript of a phone call out there with some guy.
	He's trying to hustle his way onto your show.
	He posted the transcript of his call with Ramona.
	I don't know why, but he did.
	And he's shucking.
	He's jiving.
	And he's trying to work his way onto the main show because he says in this transcript, I think that perhaps Dreamland won't have the reach for me that I deserve.
	So I think it'd be better if I'm actually on coast to coast as opposed to Dreamland.
	And she responded with, well, frankly, sir, at this point, I don't think you're going to wind up on either show.
	And I just thought, there's a woman with some castinets who probably told people what was on her mind.
	She did.
	Always.
	What was her personality like?
	She was intelligent, fiery.
	She was just a wonderful woman.
	And, well, we were married for 16 years.
	16 years is a long time.
	And she was just a wonderful woman.
	And, you know, she was a broadcaster.
	I met her at KDWN in Las Vegas in years prior to syndication.
	She was doing a talk show.
	So she was, in her own right, a talk show host.
	And so she brought a lot of that to at least her experience into how she would approach things behind the scenes, what's going to work on the radio, what's not.
	She knew which way was up.
	Absolutely.
	Yes.
	And it was a grand help.
	Yes, she was very much my partner in that.
	But it was behind the scenes.
	It was pretty much as a producer.
	She did a couple of, I think she did a couple of shows, if I remember correctly, did one with Evelyn, you may recall.
	I do.
	And so she did a little bit of air work herself.
	But yes, we met.
	She did the shift prior to mine at KDWN in Las Vegas.
	There's a famous picture of you with what a babe.
	She was such a beautiful woman.
	There's a famous black and white photo of you and Ramona sitting together at a table.
	It looks like you're at a function of some sort or a restaurant.
	I think it was a book signing.
	Was it?
	And she's wearing a dress where you can see her shoulders.
	You know the photo I'm talking about?
	Yes, of course.
	Oh, what a beautiful woman she was.
	Indeed.
	You know my woman.
	She was half Filipino.
	You know that, right?
	Oh, I do.
	I've always believed that people of mixed extraction are always the most beautiful among us.
	Well, then I'm going to agree with you because my daughter is of mixed extraction, and she's brilliant.
	She's smart.
	She's pretty.
	I think the dissimilar genetics are a good thing, Michael.
	I think that, yeah, that's right, because it knocks away all of these recessive genes that you don't want screwing somebody up.
	And they just turn into wonderful people.
	My favorite Art Bell shows, as I think back on it all those years back, are the ones where you're talking about the afterlife.
	And you've talked to so many people about what it is that happens when we die, what we can expect.
	And after having talked to all of these people, hundreds, I guess, of people on this subject, have you reached any conclusions?
	What do you think happens to us when we die?
	I'll know sooner than later.
	Michael, I don't know.
	I have that which I hope and to some degree believe.
	What I don't have is absolute faith.
	And that's unfortunately what the church wants you to have, absolute faith.
	And I can't have that.
	It's elusive.
	No, it's elusive.
	And so I have hopes.
	I hope there's a heaven.
	I hope there's not a hell.
	Do you feel that as you've gotten older that your level of belief has increased relative to your level of hope?
	No, I'm still about where I've always been.
	Really?
	See, I've always imagined myself.
	I'm 36, and I always imagine that as I get older, I'm going to just sort of puss out and start going to church and become a Jesus freak or something.
	That's hypocritical.
	You know, I think when we die, one of two things is going to happen.
	Either there is an afterlife or there isn't.
	If there isn't, you know, it's going to be eternal sleep and you're not going to care and you're not going to complain, right?
	If there is, cool.
	How else can you deal with it?
	And you said it yourself.
	You're 70.
	Yeah.
	How are you doing with the smoking?
	I'm pretty good.
	Pretty well, I should say.
	I do occasionally smoke a little tiny bit of a cigarette.
	I do is I go get a cigarette, light it, get disgusted with myself, put it out, throw it away.
	Not with the cigarette.
	You're just disgusted with yourself.
	Yes, that's right.
	And I am using gum.
	I'm using e-cigarettes.
	By the way, you're advertising e-cigarettes, aren't you?
	Well, you know, this was not incidental that you're now talking about e-cigarettes.
	I brilliantly wove the conversation in such a way as to facilitate that.
	And so anyone out there listening, if you're trying to quit smoking, if you just like the idea of having something to do that's not rotting your lungs in the process, consider going to ufoship.com and clicking on e-cigs in the main menu because I am a user of this product.
	I'm holding it in my hand right now.
	I would not recommend something that's going to make me look like an ass after you receive the product.
	These are the highest quality.
	Yeah, they work.
	Simple as that.
	They work.
	And do you put together your own juice or what do you do?
	Oh, no.
	You know what?
	I had these tanks where you take the top off, you bore the juice in, then you screw the lid back on.
	And the problem is you cannot lie down in bed and turn the cigarette vertically because this juice, I just love calling it that by the way.
	This juice will come out of the mouthpiece and you'll be drinking.
	It's a horrible experience.
	So I go cardamizers all the way.
	That's the big fancy word for the little cartridges that you screw on, you use for a day or two, then you throw them out.
	I'm using V2.
	You know what they are.
	Oh, I do.
	And I highly recommend people go to ufoship.com and click on e-cigs in the menu so that they too can enjoy the pleasure of v2.
	See, it's so psychological that you just mentioned it.
	And so I had to go pick up my V2 and take a hit.
	It's the same reason you can't stay away from Belgab, even when you really deep down inside you want to, and you know you probably should at least for a week.
	It's good for the health at times, but it's hard not to.
	I'm not sure I buy the analogy, but yeah, you're right.
	I'm just doing my best to keep everything interconnected.
	Okay.
	So it's, we got it.
	We're at the bottom of the hour.
	We got to, I would say, if we go until the top of the hour, another half hour here, that's a good solid show for you, right?
	We got to take some calls.
	Well, that's what I think we should do now.
	Now that I've done my shameless plugging for e-cigs, again, ufoshif.com, click e-cigs in the menu.
	Thank you.
	If you want to call in, now's the time to do it.
	We really would be happy to take your calls.
	The only thing I'm going to say is this.
	You can ask whatever you want.
	It's only required that A, you be polite in the course of doing so, and B, you come off as a reasonable person.
	If you can't manage that, I'm just going to hang up on you because there are a gazillion people behind you, I'm sure, waiting to talk to Art.
	So the number to call, 623-242-CAST.
	That is 623-242-2278.
	And let's go ahead and try this.
	Or Skype calls?
	I have two installations of Skype on this one computer and what I do You do that?
	Oh, yes, you can.
	All you have to do is you right-click the little Skype icon and you go to properties and you look in the box where the path is where it's telling it what is actually running.
	And you just put a little modification at the end of that path that allows you to run a second instance of Skype.
	Yes, but can you actually use them with the same sound card?
	No.
	That's why what, well, but it's an easy thing to get around because I have a total of three, actually, external USB sound cards.
	Two of those are being used for each of the respective Skype installations.
	Gotcha.
	It works great.
	That way we don't have problems.
	Hi, you're on the air with Art.
	Hello?
	Yeah.
	Hey, buddy.
	How you doing?
	I'm great.
	Thanks for calling.
	Great show.
	Great show.
	And Art, glad to see you back on.
	I asked a very valid question.
	What happens after death?
	What is it?
	Faith?
	Is it belief?
	You know, that's a good analogy you have looking at it from the perspective of, well, it's either one or, but that's where faith comes in.
	And that's where hell comes in.
	And that's why I want to know why you're covering up for Hoagland.
	Helping this conspiracy.
	And instead of helping me get the truth, I came to you in 2012, begging you.
	You're not the truth.
	Okay, caller.
	Caller.
	Just let yourself.
	There are stalkers.
	He is Hoagland's stalker.
	Oh, is he?
	Okay, caller, if you could just take a breath, we could have a conversation.
	Do you want to do that or do you just want to continue?
	Do you want to have a conversation or do you just want to yell at us?
	No?
	Okay.
	Have a good night.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	How you doing?
	It's Chefist.
	I thought you were going to say it's the guy from Pittsburgh.
	The guy from Pittsburgh.
	Hey, Chefist.
	Hey, Art.
	Just wanted to ask you a question.
	Number one, I was involved in the Blitz at the beginning, which was exciting for Midnight in the Desert.
	Right.
	And I just wanted to make sure that there's a difference between someone like me who was trying to be actively involved in getting you back on the air because we loved you versus those people who said some pretty vile things on Bell Gab that you differentiate those of us who were just disappointed you left versus those who said those horrible things.
	Oh, I totally, totally, at the beginning of the show, I think, or near the beginning, somewhere, I said, look, to the real original Bellgab members, I serve up a sincere apology.
	I went into a thing.
	Maybe you didn't hear it.
	So, yeah, there's a gigantic world of difference.
	Okay, I'm just hold on.
	I'm randomly pushing buttons here.
	These beharringer mixers can really be fun.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Okay.
	I just have a quick question for Art.
	Sure.
	There's a lot of debate going on about how you might have burned bridges in the terrestrial radio market.
	And I always thought that they'll want to put on anybody who can get them the highest ratings regardless of what happened in the past.
	Do you see roadblocks if you come back full-time to go back to those stations that you were once on?
	Or do you think that's just not going to happen?
	Okay, good question.
	You know, I guess it's conceivable, but I did burn them.
	I really did burn them.
	And I can only imagine how upset KBC was.
	They had just put us on.
	My friends up in Portland, and well, I could go on and on.
	But they are burned bridges.
	And if I did go back on, even full-time, and they didn't put me on, I wouldn't blame them.
	They're pissed.
	Like you guys.
	Hey, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, I'm V and Art.
	Hi.
	Good morning.
	I've got audio problems.
	Hold on.
	Hold on, caller.
	I'm sorry.
	We have a.
	Okay, say something now.
	Hello?
	Okay, go ahead.
	There is one.
	Hi, Art and Hi, M.V. Hey there, buddy.
	Hi there.
	Come on, let's go ahead and move on.
	Let's go ahead and get it out because I want to move on.
	Let's go.
	Okay.
	What kind of stuff did Art read when he was – why did he get into literature-wise?
	Because I know I've always wanted him to interview someone like Alan Moore, and I still hope that happens.
	But were you into more fancy or comics or whatever?
	That's a good question.
	What do you read?
	I read a lot of everything.
	I am an avid reader.
	I read law books.
	I read books about the law.
	Love them.
	I read science fiction.
	I read, I lean toward not the crazy science fiction, but the good stuff, you know, that is in some way based in reality.
	So I'm trying to give you an idea of the type of thing I like.
	I have bookshelves full of books that I read and read and read.
	So there you go.
	Hey there, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	How are you doing?
	Oh, my God.
	This audio is just hideous.
	I think I know what it is, too.
	And these buttons on the stupid...
	I do not recommend Behringer mixers.
	What happens is if you leave them out for any amount of time, the dust gets into the buttons and they all stop working properly.
	It's horrible.
	I'll try to be.
	Let me ask you a question.
	Just tell me what your feedback is on this.
	To me, the stalker who was stalking you could only be, and I hate to say this, someone from a corporate entity that you're competing with.
	It just didn't make any sense.
	You were taking market share from them.
	You were taking stations.
	Tell me I'm wrong.
	I hope you're wrong, and I think you're wrong.
	And I think it, let me say this.
	Anybody who would stalk anybody, anybody who would try and scare anybody away obviously was attempted with me is crazy.
	And I mean bonkers up the creek crazy.
	And corporate entities aren't crazy.
	So I understand where you're coming from, but I don't for one second think that it was a large corporation.
	So you don't think a publicly traded company hired some dude named Gus to stand outside your window?
	Come on, Art.
	No, if they did that, I'd own them.
	Yeah, I don't buy that either.
	It wouldn't happen.
	But I do think, again, I think I know who it was.
	Hey there, you're on the air.
	Hi.
	What's up, MD?
	What's up, Art Bell?
	Hey there.
	Who's this?
	Hey, that's all I got.
	Thanks, guys.
	All right, man.
	Hey, that's not an invalid contribution to the show.
	He just wants to say hi.
	What's wrong with that?
	Well, nothing wrong with it.
	You said this might be reviewed in 20 years, and maybe he wants to be 20 years from now heard.
	Well, he just did it.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Hello, MV.
	Great job.
	Hey, buddy.
	This is Hautex.
	I'm glad you called.
	Hello?
	Yeah, we're reading you loud and clear.
	Over the years, Art, you've seemed to develop a real tight level of trust with people.
	Now, have you been getting emails from folks wanting you back so they can disclose some information?
	I don't know that I understand the question.
	Okay, there's been a lot of things revealed on your show.
	The answer is yes.
	There are constantly many, many people who feel they have vital information to get out.
	And I get a lot of emails like that.
	So the answer is yes.
	Okay, I get it.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Appreciate the call.
	See how Art was on top of it, and I was drawing little doodles in my book here.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Yes, I'm back.
	I wasn't aware I wasn't hung up on.
	I apologize.
	And I do like to talk about this calmly, and I thank you for saying that.
	Okay, well, there are about...
	Don't be rude.
	I thought you had hung up on me.
	No, I was just waiting for you to take a breath.
	And so I'm thankful for you, and I apologize to the audience.
	And in less than a paragraph, less than a paragraph, can you explain what your problem is with Art Hoagland at all?
	Yes.
	Art Bell, I've been emailing you since 2012.
	You know who I am since days when I used to call in with Hoagland at times.
	He would spoke to you a couple times.
	And, you know, I know who you are.
	Paragraph.
	Okay, okay.
	Let's move beyond that.
	I don't know who I am.
	That's the problem here because a lot of people wanted to know why you're not helping me and help them get all the truth from Hoagland about UFO diaries, the video he was in.
	I'm not a stalker.
	And Art, you know that.
	He had me as an honorary member in his life for years.
	He was on the street.
	Okay, all right.
	Okay, take a breath.
	Not only that.
	Hey, take a breath.
	Take a breath.
	Go ahead, Art.
	That's what Hoagland calls you, is his stalker.
	That's why I called you that.
	Okay?
	I'm not a stalker.
	I'm not a stalker.
	He wants to call me a stalker, but he's in control of you.
	Okay, but why?
	Okay, hold on.
	Just a breath for one moment.
	Art is not asserting that you are a stalker, so why are you taking the grievance up with Art?
	Yes, he did.
	Yes, he did.
	He walked away.
	He calls you his stalker.
	Call me a stalker.
	Call me a stalker.
	Well, I don't know.
	I do love your accent, though, sir.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, Art.
	It's great to hear your voice.
	Good to hear yours.
	Thank you.
	You know, I just want to get your take on a lot of things that have been happening lately, like, you know, talk to the 12th planet and X-Files and all that good stuff that we don't get to hear you talk about.
	Well, X-Files, I am recording so that I might see it all at once.
	I really hate miniseries that you've got to, you know, you get hung and you've got to wait another week.
	So I'm adding them up and then I'll watch them all.
	The 12th Planet, very, very, very exciting.
	Everybody leaps to the conclusion that it is that which has been known as Planet X.
	I am not one of those people.
	If it's out there, it ain't Planet X.
	Yeah, I never bought into that.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Hi, Art.
	Yes, hi.
	Hi, this is Venus, Fireball SL5.
	I just wanted to say I am so happy to hear this interview.
	I've been listening to you for about 25 years, and thank you for being so open and honest as you always have been through your entire career.
	Oh, you're very welcome.
	I'm happy to be here.
	And that is one of the reasons I'm here for two reasons.
	One, to address the original cool members of Belgab that I've had relationships with now for years, because they did so much work.
	I wanted to say sorry about that.
	And it's good to hear from you.
	By the way, I see Agent Orange and a couple of other people are trying to call in from conventional Skype accounts.
	Please hang up and call the actual phone number because I'm afraid that if I pick up with you, it's going to hang up on Art.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, guys, it's loading.
	Hey there, buddy.
	Hey, how's it going?
	Hi, Art.
	Hi.
	I apologize if I sound horrible.
	I have a bad cold.
	We are displeased.
	Art, is it possible that your supposed stalker is possibly listening tonight?
	Or can you say that?
	Of course it's possible.
	Yeah, why not?
	I mean, I mean, yeah, anything is possible.
	He could also be cooking a souffle at the moment.
	Who knows?
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	Hey, I've been a ham radio operator since the 80s.
	I was wondering if Art still does any ham radio.
	I'm sorry, if I what?
	If you still do any ham radio.
	Oh, God, yes.
	Of course, you know, I've been a ham since 13 and I'm 70, so I seem committed.
	I can't imagine a time when you would stop.
	Even with the ad.
	I will say, when I was a teenager, I worked so hard.
	I was going to get my two-meter license.
	And I worked and worked and worked.
	And there was this book.
	It was literally about two inches thick and it was about a foot tall.
	It was huge.
	And I poured over this book, did all this work studying, and I never went and got the damn license.
	And I don't know why I'm telling you that.
	I'm trying to build closeness between myself and Dart Bell and show that we're the same kind of guy.
	Just go and get the license because it's fun.
	Well, thank you for putting me back on track by saying that.
	My point was to ask you, do you feel that the advent of the internet, the ease with which we can communicate from one corner of the earth to the other has eroded the, I don't know, the wonder associated with ham radio?
	Oh, no.
	In fact, I so feel the opposite.
	When I went on the air with MITD and the audio was so good and the connections were so crisp.
	Yes, I had to lecture people about Skype, as I'm sure you do.
	But when it's good, Skype, when it's good, is very, very good.
	When it's bad, it's horrible.
	But as long as you check things out with somebody beforehand or instruct them in how to use it properly, man, there's nothing like it.
	So, you know, suddenly I was getting good quality phone calls, even when they were coming from cell phones.
	And I was getting good quality Skype calls.
	And I thought it was beyond cool.
	You know, I mean, to listen to somebody, I don't know, in Bangkok, like they're sitting right next to you.
	How cool is that?
	My wife's from a foreign country.
	Your wife is from a foreign country.
	And I tried to imagine myself in my wife's position 20 years ago, what that would have been like to have such limited means of communication with your family back home.
	And now just with the East.
	Very, very expensive phone bills.
	Oh, nobody could pay that.
	I mean, you basically would be saying goodbye to your family.
	That's right.
	It would be a real goodbye.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Hello.
	This is white curl.
	Are you going to be buying any e-cigs, sir?
	No, I'm on the patches.
	No, I forgot about that.
	I'm not impressed by the patches.
	Do you have a question for Art, please?
	Yes, Art.
	I don't think I'm going to be around 20 years to listen to this again.
	But with that said, what do you think of MV's talents?
	He seems like he should maybe get himself a staff and some handlers and try to get the big time.
	What do you think, Art?
	Why not?
	That's right.
	I mean, it's just, it's like a new hobby for people out there to try and do a show.
	I wish more people would do what MV is doing, though, and do it live.
	That's the key.
	Anybody can do a podcast.
	They got together a one-hour podcast and make it just right.
	But live radio, different story.
	You can go back, you can fix little things he didn't like.
	You know how many things I do over the, you know how many things I would probably like to delete from this show if it were possible?
	I mean, there are just these little things.
	I'm a very self-critiquing person.
	And if you do a recorded show, you can go back.
	You can fix stuff.
	You can insert questions you forgot to ask.
	All kinds of stuff.
	No bueno.
	How you're on the air.
	How you're on the air.
	Yeah, can you hear me?
	Yeah.
	Sure.
	This is Pete from San Diego.
	I basically just had a comment.
	Art, I've listened to you for years, and I want to see if we agree on why you're so successful.
	One, I think it's your voice, obviously, which can't be duplicated ever by anyone.
	And two, you're so intelligent that I remember you, you doing those interviews, and they were so carefully crafted.
	It's like you had everything plotted out about the guy's story before you ever started talking to him.
	And you had such a sense of drama and when the breaks were and leaving cliffhangers.
	And I remember they'd start talking ahead of themselves a little bit.
	You'd say, no, no, no, no.
	No, wait, wait, we'll talk about that later.
	And I never, that to me is the essence, besides your voice, of your talent.
	Do you think that's your strength or what do you think?
	Well, I've had an awful lot of life experience, right, in a lot of different areas.
	So I guess that prepares me to comment on nearly anything.
	You know, it's like I know a lot or a little about a lot, enough to get away with it and or fake my way through something interview-wise and or make it interesting.
	So I don't know.
	Yes, I guess I've got a lot of life experience.
	And beyond that, I've got a voice.
	I'm not all that different than a lot of people.
	You don't like flattery, do you?
	No, I don't.
	What is it that you dislike about it?
	I don't know.
	I just, I've never been comfortable with it.
	I've just, I've never liked it.
	I mean, people will come up to you when you're in a restaurant.
	Oh, Arbel, Art Bell.
	Drives me nuts.
	Absolutely drives me nuts.
	There's not a little part of you that's like, all right, I am Art Bell.
	No.
	No, I just, I don't like it.
	And people don't understand that.
	Everybody thinks they would love celebrity.
	That's right.
	Careful what you wish for.
	It's not that cool.
	Hey, you're on with Art Bell.
	Hi, Art.
	I have a question for a couple quick ones.
	For you coming back, and I know it was always a worry with your family, you know, with what happened.
	Have you thought of broadcasting in other areas, you know, away from your home and then with them not knowing where you're at?
	And the other question is, what would it take for you to come back?
	I mean, what would it take?
	Well, we kind of, I don't know if you missed the earlier part of the show, but we kind of did answer those questions.
	Just listen back to all of those questions were answered earlier.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Yeah, so I'd like to try to step for you without being hung up this time.
	Can I give my paragraph or can I just make a comment of what it was?
	Okay, again, stop for a minute.
	I said that you were what Holand calls his stalker, and that is you.
	And the question is, why you keep coming at him the way you do, and you're doing it here tonight.
	So slow down.
	Okay, can I get my response off?
	Because what your gripe really is.
	Uh-huh.
	Go ahead.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	Paragraph.
	You're not going to give a speech.
	Give it in a paragraph.
	No one has time for this.
	All right.
	All right.
	But this would be a show between me and you because you need the story.
	But anyway, you get the facts.
	Then you'll know the facts.
	And then everyone else will, too.
	Hoagland calls me a stalker.
	I'm not.
	Of course, he encouraged an investigation in 2006 into a video.
	Sir, I don't even know who you are.
	I don't have time for this.
	No.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	You're on with our.
	I don't even know who you are, so why would I care who called you a stalker or whether you actually are or not?
	Nobody cares.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Hey, yeah, this is not the stalker.
	I think you'll be happy.
	Oh, thank you.
	Hey, Art and Mike.
	Interesting.
	I like the show tonight.
	Thank you for coming back, Art, and talking to your fans, the guys who have been so loyal since the 90s to you.
	Also, Art, I do want to thank you for the other side of midnight.
	I actually really enjoy that show.
	Is there any chance that Hogan might come on a little earlier?
	No, I don't think so.
	And while I'm at it, let me straighten something out.
	With regard to something Richard's been saying, Richard's been saying, I'm sure you know, since you're a listener, that he's carrying the network, right?
	Go ahead.
	He's gone.
	He's gone.
	Yeah, he's gone.
	Go ahead.
	Richard has been saying he's been carrying the network on a regular basis.
	And to be clear, Heather is carrying the network.
	By a long shot, Heather is carrying the network.
	And you mean that specifically in terms of subscriber metrics?
	Well, that's a rather unambiguous way of measuring, I would have to say.
	And the way that translates into dollars in every way you can imagine.
	Yeah.
	Hey, you're on with Art.
	Hello.
	Hello, Agent Orange.
	Long, long, long time listener, first-time caller.
	Hey, there.
	Art, it is great to speak with you, man.
	I just wanted to say thank you so much for all of the entertainment that you've given me over this long career.
	I was listening to you way back in the 90s.
	Your interviews with Mitchu Kaku just gripped me in a way that radio never has.
	I wanted to say thank you for that.
	It's great to hear your voice again.
	And if you feel safe doing the gab cast, is there any chance that you could become a recurring member of the podcast?
	Thanks very much.
	I'll take my answer off the air for your art Bell.
	Thanks, buddy.
	Thank you very much.
	Yeah, sure.
	There is a chance.
	There's a chance I will do more radio.
	I may not go back to a full five-night a week schedule.
	Heather has a show, and you know, even though people I know make comments, I think, frankly, from a radio perspective, that an informed email voice talking about these subjects in the nighttime is unusual enough.
	And no matter what people say, she is good and getting better by the minute.
	I think she has every chance of being a big hit.
	I think people who are not surrounded by, we sometimes forget that we as Bell Gabbers and you know, well, I can just simplify with that.
	As Bell Gabbers, we're living inside of a bubble here that we sometimes are unaware of.
	And there are going to be plenty of people who hear Heather who aren't attached to the emotion of all of this and will make objective judgments.
	I can't talk.
	Bell Gab has a way of thinking of itself as the world.
	The arbiter.
	But not really.
	It's a place, and it's a vague, was at one time a vaguely lovable place, and maybe on the way back to that designation again as we speak.
	But it's not the world.
	There's a lot more people out there.
	Hey, you're on with Art.
	Who, me?
	Yeah, you're on with Art Bell, the Art Bell.
	Wow.
	Bruce from Joliette.
	First time I ever talked to Art Bell.
	Well, that much.
	I'm very impressed.
	But could you get more Facebook pages?
	Because I really want to be your friend on Facebook.
	And you already have 5,000, and I can't get on.
	I do.
	It's amazing.
	I've got over 30,000 followers and 5,000 friends.
	So at any moment, 35,000, 37,000 people read what I write.
	So that's amazing to me.
	I think you have to convert your account to some other type of account so that the friends limitation goes away and everybody just follows you.
	Well, I got a public page account.
	I think.
	Yeah, that's what it is.
	But people still stayed on my personal account.
	I couldn't move them over to the public page.
	They didn't want to go.
	Simple as that.
	Hey there.
	You're on with Art Bell.
	Thanks for calling tonight.
	Hi, everybody.
	This is Showroom Dummy.
	Hi, Art.
	What a gracious event here tonight of you coming on.
	And thank you so much for doing JabCast.
	MV, you're doing an incredible job.
	I thought so too.
	Yeah, just absolutely outstanding questions and nailing it hard.
	And it's been fun to listen to.
	Thank you.
	I have just a couple of questions here.
	So, Art, when was the last time you had a perfect moment or some kind of joy in your life that you'd want to share with us?
	What that event was?
	Well, the other day, I sat in school and watched my daughter beat the best the school had to offer in a spelling bee.
	Now, that may not seem like much to you, but to me, that was a perfect moment.
	You created her.
	And I can relate to that.
	It doesn't get any better than that.
	Really, it doesn't.
	In the film Time Machine, there's a moment where, and I know you like time travel, where the character brings three books into the future.
	If you could do some time traveling and you had that choice to bring three books, what three books would you choose to bring into the future?
	Besides the Art of the Deal and the Bible?
	In that order.
	I don't know.
	You're talking to a guy who's been, I literally read every day.
	So I've read thousands of books.
	My God, I don't know.
	I'd have to sit down and think about that.
	And I'll tell you what.
	I will.
	I'll give you an answer to that.
	But to dredge one up right now.
	A little tough.
	Hey, you're on with Art Bell.
	Hello.
	Why do you keep hanging up on me?
	Because you're like the audio form of throat cancer.
	You have no social sensibility whatsoever.
	Whatever you say.
	That's slander.
	But let me give my paragraph.
	No, it would be slander.
	Art, you're afraid of controversy, aren't you?
	You're afraid of controversy on your show because you don't want them to look at UFO diaries or Hoagland's connection or Art Bell's controversy.
	Listen, do you have a website that you would like to plug where people can read your perspective?
	How about this?
	How about this?
	Let me be a guest on your show for two hours.
	Mine?
	I'll pay you $500.
	Mine or Arts?
	Either or Art, I'll give you a grand.
	If you pay me $500, you can be a guest on the Gabcast.
	You got it.
	And you let me present my story to what I've done.
	I will sell $1,000.
	You will have total car blind.
	Excuse me?
	Michael has just made a deal.
	Well, yeah, I mean, I don't really necessarily want Art to step in on my business here.
	Right.
	No offense.
	I called in because Art's on to confront him, but I'm more than willing to let you and your audience know.
	I thought you were being cool with me, but then you're being complicit too.
	Now you're being cool again for $500.
	So be it.
	I bought you.
	Art, $1,000 to join us?
	To join us or let me be on with you also.
	You have a lot of great points.
	Okay, slow down a second.
	You know, one thing that I'd like to understand is what part I even play in this.
	Your gripe is with Richard, not me.
	It's not only.
	What can I answer?
	I know what you're saying.
	What is my gripe with you?
	How about this?
	You allowing Hoagland to control Mike Barris show this network to get my archives off of it because it points to Hoagland.
	And you leave.
	Why do you assume Art is controlling Hoagland?
	Because he, yeah, you didn't really have a good answer to that one, did you?
	Maybe you should.
	I do.
	I've got a good answer.
	Okay.
	I have zero financial interest or anything with the network at all.
	I have no official position with the network right now.
	I make not one penny from the network right now.
	All I'm doing is trying to help out Heather and giving her advice.
	That's it.
	Hey, you're on with Art Bell High.
	Pardon me?
	You're on with Art Bell?
	Hello.
	Hi.
	Can you hear me?
	Oh, yeah.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	I just wanted to say that I would love to see Heather and Art do a show together if there's any way because I think you two have a great rapport.
	The first interview I ever heard of Heather doing with art, I thought was magical.
	That's it.
	Thank you so much.
	Thank you.
	You're welcome.
	Actually, that's a good point she makes.
	Heather came on with me during the test show, and people hated it.
	They didn't hate Heather.
	They hated the fact that I was not alone.
	It's kind of like they don't hate Heather.
	People more or less like Heather, actually.
	It's just that she's not me.
	And so when I had her on the test show, people went bonkers.
	Absolutely went bonkers.
	They wanted me alone.
	That's the key right there.
	It was they wanted a package they were familiar with.
	That's right.
	Yeah.
	So, you know what I'd really like to see?
	What I'd like to see is for the original Bell Gabbers to get together and give Heather constructive advice.
	And bearing in mind that she is one of your own, as were several other people involved, I might add, with the network.
	When it's one of your own, I mean, come on.
	Hey, you're on with Art Bell High.
	Yeah, Michael, I was just wondering if the Richard Stalker was still on the line.
	I'd like to offer him $250 to appear on the Bell FilesletalkRadio.com.
	Hi, Art IMV.
	Hey, buddy.
	How's it going, Jazzy?
	I'm good, thank you.
	Art, you know, you've probably answered everything, but I just wanted to know what you think of the genre, the whole paranormal genre at the moment.
	Is there still something there, or has it just been hijacked by people?
	No, of course there's something there, but oh my God, everybody's trying to do it, aren't they?
	Oh, definitely.
	Back when I was doing it, I think I was either the only one or one of two or three, and now, Katie, bar the door.
	Yeah, that's right.
	I initially started, I had a pirate Art Bell stream years ago.
	And so just 24-7 playing Art Bell, Art Bell, Art Bell.
	And while, yes, I've been an Art Bell fan for years, my real reason in doing that was just because, A, nobody else was doing a pirated Art Bell stream.
	So you got to do something that nobody else is doing.
	But B, I wanted there to be someone to hear me when I drop in to do my bull crap, my little podcast, what have yous.
	Well, it worked out great.
	I mean, the thing got up to, I think, 500 concurrent listeners every night.
	I mean, it was really a happening sort of thing.
	Okay, this was on the internet then.
	Oh, yeah.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	I did real pirate radio stations.
	You ever do that?
	Well, I have a friend who has a pirate.
	Well, I have, but, you know, I bought a Ramsey transmitter kit that puts out seven watts effective.
	Actually, I think it's 25 effective, but seven actual watts, but, you know, at the antenna effectively.
	But anyway, you, for about $250, can put something together that sounds every bit as good as any commercial terrestrial radio station.
	It's quite amazing.
	Sure.
	I've got a driver at home and an amplifier and a circular antenna at the top of my tower, and I can go any frequency I want.
	I don't do it, of course, but that tells you how much of a pirate I am.
	I could flick a switch to them, actually, and be on the air.
	I also have a friend who's got a pirate.
	You know what?
	I mean, when you hear of people doing pirate radio stations, it's never an AM station.
	Why is that?
	Well, because AMA requires more power, and B requires an infinitely larger antenna to be heard by anybody.
	FM's piece of cake.
	Yeah, actually, you'd have to string something across the yard for an AM, wouldn't you?
	Oh, yeah.
	I mean, a hand wave on broadcast frequencies.
	I think also with the skip, particularly as you get to the lower end of the AM band, you sort of increase your likelihood of getting caught, I think, as well.
	You do.
	Oh, you do.
	And, well, these days you'll get caught on FM too.
	Don't do it.
	Is that, I mean, do you say that with some level of authority that you will get caught?
	Oh, yes.
	Yes.
	How does that happen?
	Well, FM, for one thing, is much easier to direction find.
	Really?
	And also, then the commercial FM stations that find out about you will rout you out to the commission in two seconds.
	Yeah, you would imagine so.
	Sure.
	Is it easier to triangulate because there's less signal reflection?
	Is it something akin to that?
	Kind of.
	FM is very, very directional.
	In other words, with AM, there could be fade, there could be ionospheric reflection, there could be bounce, and you can get a little bounce with FM too.
	But generally, you can take a beam, you know, you know what a beam is, Michael?
	Oh, yeah.
	Okay.
	And you can swing it around and know exactly the direction of that FM station.
	When I was a kid, I had a unit in Washington Bay Station in my bedroom and an Antron 99 antenna mounted on the top of my house.
	I was a real dork, and I was hated by a lot of people because here I am, 12, maybe 11 years old, 12 or so, and I'm getting on there, and I'm just annoying all of these old people who really don't want to hear kids on the band.
	And so what they would do is they would just aim their beam antenna in the direction of town where they know I'm coming from and just destroy everything for me.
	I mean, you literally, for anyone who doesn't know, a beam antenna allows you to essentially point the direction you'd like to send the signal.
	Right.
	With additional gain, so you get stronger.
	I'm going to have to break it off pretty soon.
	One more call.
	I've had this person on hold for a long time.
	You're on with Art Bell.
	Go ahead.
	So, gentlemen, do we have a deal?
	500 for you.
	Had to be that guy.
	Okay, I'm going to get one more legitimate caller.
	Sure.
	Go ahead.
	And then we'll do it.
	Hi, you're on the air.
	Hi, yes.
	This is Wayne from Lakeland, Florida.
	Hey, man.
	Hey, Art.
	Hi.
	Hey, hi.
	Quick question.
	I was really excited that you were back on the air.
	Of course, now you're off because we have an election year coming up.
	I was just kind of curious how you see that going and where that's who might win or who you were supporting.
	Well, we kind of talked about that earlier.
	We did, and I'm going to take Vermont.
	And then after that, I'm going to roll into our table.
	Hi, you're on with Art Bell.
	Go ahead.
	Yeah, I want to know if Art Bell actually owns all of his old radio broadcasts, or is that something that the Premier owns?
	Oh, no.
	Those are all Premier.
	And then I have half ownership of Sirius XM.
	We both can use them with the permission of the other.
	And a very similar deal with Midnight in the Desert.
	So the old stuff, no, they own it.
	Well, that's it.
	We did two hours and eight minutes.
	How about that?
	It's been a pleasure.
	I wish I was on here with solid, you know, big news, better news, any news.
	But anyway, that tells the story.
	This is going to be a legendary broadcast that people refer to for years to come.
	I'm happy to have been a part of it.
	I'm thrilled at the number of people who listened live tonight.
	I'm going to be additionally thrilled by the number of people who download the show subsequently.
	So thank you to all of you, to the callers, to Art yourself for coming in here to what I'm sure prior to your arrival seemed like it could be a lion's den, and you did it anyway.
	So thank you.
	Thank you, my friend.
	Thank you all out there.
	That's Art Bell.
	I'm Michael VanDeeven.
	I go by MV over at BellGab.com.
	And thanks to everybody listening to the show tonight.
	I know that people are going to want to post this show on YouTube.
	That's fine.
	I have no problem with that.
	Post away.
	But just know there are a couple of rules.
	First of all, you will wait two weeks from today's date.
	It's February 4th, 2016.
	You will say where it is that the audio comes from.
	You will say that it comes from UFOShift.com.
	And you will also post the audio in its entirety.
	No editing.
	If you follow those rules, you can post this on YouTube until you're blue in the face.
	Thank you.
	Everybody, have a good night.
	We'll see you later.
	Bye-bye.
	You've been listening to The Gabcast, a podcast about BellGab.com.

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