GabCast Bellgab.com - 28 April, 2015

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April 28, 2015 - GabCast Bellgab.com

01:49:55

28 April, 2015

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	Welcome, everybody, to the Gabcast.
	We've got a special show tonight with Michael Onin.
	Why is this special?
	It's a special show because it's special.
	I've got big news to share.
	This just goes straight to the most important post.
	I'll read it for everybody now.
	We'll get started with that.
	and i mess up the music as i do that okay so and you said uh uh You're right, I did.
	You're going to have to do something for me every time I do that.
	So, so the big post, I'll go ahead and read it.
	I never said it was my fault, but I have stepped on my glasses because they fell on the floor while I was sleeping.
	Or I knocked them down in my sleep and I could not see them.
	The glasses that broke at the doctor broke because I fell asleep while posting online and rolled over top of them and broke them.
	I don't have $160 just lying around at any given moment to buy a new pair of glasses when they break.
	You guys take that where you need to.
	Is that Evelyn?
	It's going to be us.
	That's falky.
	That's falky today at 2.59 p.m.
	You answered that question with actual information as though we needed the information.
	I was unclear as to who that might be until Curtis piped in right now.
	I know.
	I'm here to help, man.
	So are these the new glasses or are these the is this the story behind the current pair of glasses?
	Why are we starting this show off with you know how much how many, let's just say, less than pleased messages I will receive as a result of having started this show out with Falkey information?
	I've had this post sitting up on my screen all day waiting for this moment.
	So you think I'm going to pass it up?
	To me, this is probably the single biggest piece of news that's happened all week on the forum.
	I look at it and he really explained what happened to his glasses, how it's not his fault.
	I don't know how you couldn't see this post for what it is.
	Alien Mojo, we got rid of Redacted for this.
	Dina81 says, I feel like such a noob not knowing what Falkey is.
	She says, what Falkey is.
	No one knows.
	It's a new automobile from Craptastic Motors, the Falke 2015.
	It's only got one and a half wheels.
	One of the wheels is literally sliced in the center and your car just bumps every time it rolls.
	It's really an amazing automobile.
	I thought it was square.
	You got one square tire.
	Well, that's the advanced model.
	I don't want to be all highfalutin and expect everyone can just go out and willy-nilly spend money on the biggest model right up front.
	It's not the way the world works, Curtis.
	Not everybody has your Art Bell webmaster money from the deal you can make.
	Remember that coffee is for closers.
	So what's the deal?
	Is Keith rolling back or is he not?
	What's going on?
	It sounds like he is.
	Anyone have that post up?
	The most recent from Art?
	Do you want to start there?
	I don't have it up.
	I'm entirely unprepared for the fact that we're doing a broadcast.
	So this is the show about art and everything there, right?
	Not the spec sheet.
	We don't have to talk about the technical behind the scenes of a post.
	Which post do you want to do?
	The update?
	Let's do the original.
	Let's start at the original, and then we can work our way.
	That I'm not prepared for.
	What I want is a melodic, rhythmic reading of every one of Art's 500-plus posts starting out.
	I was prepared to do that for Falki, but I can't really.
	I can't help you there.
	By the way, Falki is a guy who uses Bellgab, who has a pair of glasses that only have one side rail.
	And so, no, no, you need an update.
	Oh, my.
	Well, we have to answer her question because not everybody is available on the show.
	Go ahead.
	Falky is the closest thing to a rash that you can get from reading a forum.
	Well, that clarifies everything.
	He's a guy with broken glasses who tapes them to his head using duct tape and then goes to alternative healing and new age expos wearing said glasses with duct tape in the pursuit of interviews with people that he thinks are of note.
	And it's a hoot, and I would recommend you check out the Falky thread at Bellgab.
	It's a gift that keeps giving.
	And I think it, in some regards, for some people, appears to be as entertaining as anything happening in the Art Bell thread.
	And Dalky's been posting on Bellgab for quite a long time, actually.
	It's just only in the last maybe, what, three or four months, he's just become such a phenomenon as he has.
	And he has literally tens of YouTube subscribers, all of whom await his uploads with bated breath.
	And so we're all very proud of him.
	Proud of him.
	Proud of him and the little Abasky Ebenachiev as we all are.
	Don't forget that this is designed to make him money.
	Yeah.
	So anyway, let's hear the post from Art.
	Okay.
	So Art's first announcement was, I'm sorry to announce that Keith Rowland has informed me tonight that he no longer wants to move forward.
	In brackets, he quit.
	This was last night, right?
	Yes.
	And really quick, why does this all happen while I'm asleep?
	Well, that's not the only thing that's happened recently while you were asleep.
	We're all a little suspicious.
	Anyway, I'm sorry, Jasmine.
	Go ahead.
	That's okay.
	This follows a conversation I had with him in which I asked him to not snap at people.
	I was concerned because he was in charge of the business side of the deal, which is a lot of work and involves dealing with people.
	Business is built on relationships.
	He said that the stress of all this was too much for him, which is understandable because there is a great deal to do on his side.
	He further told me that he will turn his network over to somebody else.
	All this was as much of a shock to me as I'm sure it is to you.
	As a result of this, it is less likely that I will move forward because I cannot handle both the talk host part of the job as well as the music license matters.
	The streaming deals that have to be made, the website, the producer he lined up, and much, much more.
	Since I have already bought all the studio gear, I will go ahead and build the studio with the hope of finding a way forward.
	This is not me saying I quit.
	It is me saying that right now I don't see a way to get it all done.
	If I can find a way, I will do so.
	But this is kind of a stopper for the moment.
	I will keep you all informed, Art.
	So, this was last night, and I have to say, I entirely agree with Keith and his reasoning behind.
	I mean, I don't know.
	Certainly, Art hasn't listed off verbatim what Keith said his stresses were, but there has to be a lot of stress associated with Keith doing what Keith is doing.
	He's the web guy, he is the stream guy, he is the advertising guy, he's the PR guy, he's the this guy, the that guy.
	And as I sit here from outside the box looking at what Keith is doing, just my own approximation.
	Are you guys here?
	No, I'm still here.
	I think we lost it.
	I think we did, yes.
	It's a lot of hats to wear, I think.
	Michael is uh, is trying to get at, yeah.
	You have to think for anyone that that would be a lot to handle, even if you're an expert in any one of the things he's doing to try to do all of those things.
	And also, I'm sure he's just as big of a fan, if not friend, of art.
	Well, that's how it started, yeah.
	Yeah, so that's a lot of weight to have on your shoulders for anyone.
	And then, when you add in how many years he's been involved with them and the successes they've had, you know, that you almost become a victim of your own successes.
	Where, you know, what if this doesn't?
	Uh, you know, he's got to be thinking about that.
	What if this isn't as successful?
	What if I'm the reason?
	You know, all that different stuff is going to go through your head that I'm sure keeps you up at night.
	It makes for uncomfortable or strange conversations, too, when you're trying to deal with things like licensing, streaming, you know, you name it.
	Michael, are you there?
	Yeah, I'm here.
	What happened?
	Did I go away or something?
	You lost your shit.
	But we could still hear something from your end, but it's like you trail off.
	Well, so what precipitated all this, it seems at least, was while the great forwarding of 2015 was taking place over the weekend, Keith accidentally publicly tweeted something along the lines of, Hey, why isn't MV going to ask for help?
	What's wrong with him?
	Something along those lines.
	I don't remember verbatim what it was.
	It was a little more denigrating than that.
	Okay.
	But people posted that quote on the forum, and some people were quite nasty toward Keith as a result of what he had said.
	Well, that's to be expected.
	And then I'm sorry, someone in the chat room just said, Are we hearing the child EVP again?
	That was awesome.
	I had to say that.
	That was a great go on to be losing.
	Where was I?
	The wine's not helping.
	My kid is throwing plastic little tonka buses at everything.
	It's really a scene over here, man.
	There's poop-filled green plastic bags.
	I don't know what to do with myself.
	So, anyway, so people are critical of Keith after he posts that to Twitter.
	And Art comes in and says, Yeah, I saw it.
	I'm not too pleased by it myself.
	And I have said something to Keith.
	And I guess it was the next day that Art submitted this post where he tells everybody that Keith has submitted his resignation.
	And but before Art said that, Keith signed into the forum and actually posted himself and apologized for the whole thing.
	But I've got to say, I really wish Keith hadn't apologized because it wasn't necessary, and I'm not sure he really wanted to necessarily anyway.
	But I wish he hadn't because I've never held back on whatever nasty things I've publicly had to say about him.
	And I've never apologized for anything I said.
	Although anything I've said was just simply the result of my observations and my opinions.
	And, you know, what they say about opinions.
	But I wish he hadn't apologized.
	It wasn't necessary.
	And I'm a little skittish about people getting in trouble for things that they tweet and just in their day-to-day lives.
	That kind of troubles me a little bit.
	And I don't know if this is one of those situations necessarily, but yeah, Art might, I'm sorry, Keith might be Art's webmaster.
	Losing you again.
	Oh, my God.
	Yeah.
	You son of a bitch.
	Okay.
	Well, you know what?
	I don't know why you're losing me.
	I don't know what to say.
	Yeah, it's very strange because we aren't losing the rest of the world.
	I want to comment on what you said, though.
	I personally think people should be accountable for what they say.
	And maybe at some point they'll use a little restraint when they're talking about other people in a public forum.
	I don't know.
	I thought what he said could have been said a lot differently than he said it.
	And I don't think it's wrong to catch someone on their behaviors.
	So, I don't know.
	You know, I really want to be careful on everything I say because, you know, there is so much looking over the forum by people.
	And there's been a lot of, well, if it can't be my way, I'm just going to take my ball and go home.
	And I don't know.
	Actually, when I read this whole thing with Art saying that they had broken up and now they're getting back together, it literally did remind me of my daughter when she was 14 explaining to me tearfully how she broke up with her boyfriend.
	And I was just like, really?
	This is what it's about?
	I don't know.
	Go ahead, Michael.
	Well, I'm just reading the chat room here, and someone said, MV is sticking up for Keith.
	I'm in a parallel universe here.
	It's not necessarily sticking up for.
	I mean, I'm not going to sit here and tell you, you know what, Keith and I have a golf outing planned for next weekend, and it's really going to be juicy.
	I'm not saying that.
	I'm just saying, as a guy who is known to, at times, say what's actually on his mind, whether he should or shouldn't do so, I'm not going to sit here and demand anybody apologize for anything they said.
	I just, I don't know.
	Maybe it's me feeling like because he apologized that makes me feel a little bit crappier about the things that I said.
	And so maybe that's why I regret that he apologized.
	But on the surface, I will tell you that I just, I'm really skittish about this culture of people apologizing for the things that they say and having trouble in their jobs as a result of it, whether it's Keith Rowland or Anthony Kumia or anybody else, especially when it's something they're saying about somebody who has been very openly critical toward them.
	Yeah, I think it's fine for people to have differing opinions and they're not always going to be happy and line up just right.
	That's part of that friction is what makes life fun.
	There has to be a point when you realize that you have an unsubstantiated opinion and you're just throwing things out out of anger.
	I don't think any of that is happening in this conversation or in the conversation that led up to why we're talking about this.
	People said what they felt that was on their mind in the moment, and you deal with it.
	It is what it is.
	Everybody have to like everybody anyway.
	I never believed in that philosophy.
	Sometimes people just don't like you.
	I happen to like everybody.
	Well, I believe that, Curtis.
	That's one of the things that annoys the shit out of me about you is that you seem not to be annoyed.
	I'm annoyed that you're not annoyed by anybody.
	And I find it creepy, and I'm non-plussed by it.
	And when I go to sleep at night and all this crazy stuff happens that I don't find out about until the next day, I go to sleep happy knowing that that freaks you out.
	Yeah, you're probably cutting the skin with razors on the back of your knee and nobody knows about it.
	You're covering it up with slacks.
	This is probably how you compensate for this life you leave.
	Well, one of my eyebrows has no lashes left in it because I pluck one out every time somebody says something negative.
	Well, now I know why you're working from home.
	That's right.
	Well, I thank you, Keith, for your apology.
	It wasn't necessary.
	And I myself am certainly somebody that some people don't like.
	And I'm certainly somebody who from time to time is a crank.
	And I try not to be unless I feel like somebody has given me a very specific reason to be.
	I try not to be random in my crankiness, but I'm not beyond reproach.
	So no, but at the same time, and I'm not trying to suck up here, but I think for the amount of shit that's thrown over the forum, you oftentimes show a great deal of restraint.
	Yeah, I mean, look at some of the other forums out there that have tried to live in the same space of conspiracy that Bell Gab does, and they get moderated to death.
	And it starts off as something that looks interesting, and then you see that there's one post every two months, and then that one gets moderated.
	What you do and what you don't do, which is, I guess, where the nuance and greatness is, isn't what you don't do, is pretty cool.
	So what you're saying is the great thing about me is that I pretty much don't do anything.
	Yeah, what I do, that's a left-handed compliment.
	Thank you.
	Well, I'm left-handed, so.
	And we meant it sincerely.
	That's great.
	I'm very happy that you're not.
	Well, no, no, because you could go out and say, I mean, look at the things that people expect from you as the moderator of Bell Gab and what they want from you because everybody tries to make it their own forum that goes the direction they want it, whether it's a 9-11 truther or somebody who loves some music and they want everyone else to love it too, or it's some political stance on something.
	Another good example is the things that are happening in Baltimore.
	There's more conversation happening about the writing in Baltimore that is real, probably on Bell Gab, than there are in any news organization happening right now.
	And if you tried to become heavy-handed with it, that would be crazy.
	And you could go out and start giving your opinion in some moderator way that would destroy things.
	And you don't.
	You just show up and you're a user in your form.
	You give your opinion and people like it or they don't.
	And you can take it either direction.
	Friend of Falke in the chat says, did Keith kill MV in an online gaming environment?
	I don't know why I find that amusing.
	I've been sitting here fixated on that line just so I could read it to you guys for the last four minutes.
	I don't think you're the real Paul.
	And Star Mountain says, MV, it's karma for dumping redacted tonight.
	I think she's referring to the audio issues.
	Here's the thing.
	And people are saying, hey, look at the problems you guys are having.
	Isn't this indicative of what Art may very well face when he starts broadcasting in July?
	Point taken, but what you got to understand is not only do we have the stream here that is sending this audio to you listening, but we also have four independent Skype connections.
	So there are a lot of fail points here.
	Whereas what Art's going to be doing, where it's just him talking into a microphone, interviewing somebody who's calling in on a standard phone line, there's not a lot that can go wrong with that.
	So let's not freak out just yet.
	It's not a one-to-one ratio of what we're doing to what would be done.
	Right.
	And additionally, I'm sitting here on a seven-year-old laptop connected over Wi-Fi on the same connection that my daughter's using to watch these frightening animated objects interact with one another on YouTube.
	There's a lot going on here that can really muck things up.
	So I'm just going to be just fine.
	You need to put the Simpsons episode when they go over to Japan and there's the seizure-inducing video that they watch.
	Just play that over and over again on YouTube.
	It'll be great for both of you.
	All right.
	Well, let me, what is that?
	Season 53 of The Simpsons?
	I'll go look that up, Curtis.
	Thanks.
	Season 12, episode 27.
	It starts at the 6.23 minute mark.
	And you don't break minutes down into minutes second.
	You break it into decimal.
	That's really great, Curtis.
	I do things my way.
	So everything's back on.
	Let's hear the everything is back.
	The update, yeah.
	So the update is: okay, Keith and I have made amends and will go forward as planned.
	We were both under a very great deal of stress, and it is no reason to ruin a very long friendship.
	So Midnight in the Desert continues, Art.
	And I think this is me talking now, not Art.
	This whole situation reminds me of when your best friend breaks up with his girlfriend and you tell him that you always hated his girlfriend.
	And then the very next day they get back together because there was a lot of hatred towards Keith sort of on the website when the whole thing went down.
	And it's kind of awkward now that they're going back together.
	Well, the thing to remember is it's the internet.
	Anybody can say anything.
	Nobody has to show their face or reveal their name.
	And we all know that people say things that they wouldn't normally be likely to say when they don't have to show anybody who they are.
	And beyond all that, again, I say, why does everybody have to like everybody?
	Why does everybody have to like Keith?
	All I want is for Art to have a show, and I want him to be successful doing it, and I want him to enjoy himself, and I want it to be everything all of us envision it being.
	And if Keith running things makes that more likely to happen, wonderful.
	I'm all for that.
	If Keith being there makes things less likely to happen, fine, shit, can him.
	I don't care.
	I'm an Art Bell fan.
	I want art on the air.
	Whatever it takes to make that happen, yay, let's do it.
	Well, Art makes a pretty strong point, too, in one of his posts today saying, as most of you know, everything is once again fine with Keith and myself.
	So please don't add to the strain by attacking Keith.
	Attack me if you wish.
	Keith is an important part of what has to happen.
	It is a lot.
	We have someone to help him with some of the workload.
	So Art at this point is telling everybody, whatever your reasons for throwing your attention Keith's direction, that's over with now.
	If you want to do that, it has to go to Art instead.
	He's basically becoming a firewall, it sounds like.
	Well, beyond that, he's just talking reason into people.
	And I think that's a reasonable thing to say.
	We want the show to happen in July.
	And at this point, it looks like it's more likely to happen if Keith is there than if Keith isn't there.
	And he's got a relationship spanning 20 years with this guy.
	I mean, it's a little difficult to believe.
	Can everybody still hear me?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	It's a little bit difficult to believe that a relationship spanning two decades can just like that.
	Over, done, finished.
	That's why when I saw all of this go down, it was a little bit, I don't know, it just didn't feel real to me.
	And I wasn't at all surprised, Curtis, when you sent me a message on Voxer today to tell me that things were back as they once were.
	And I think it's very reassuring to hear Art say that someone is helping Keith with some of the load.
	That's what I think really was the best way forward.
	Keep Keith there.
	Get someone in the mix to help him with the load.
	And let's make this happen in July.
	Yeah, it's like there was this major strain point that was happening, and everybody knew it.
	Everybody saw that even though we don't know the details behind the scenes, we all know there has to be some type of issue occurring in terms of all the people who, the few amount of people who have a major part of the workload, it blew up and we got to see some of it on the outside.
	And now Art is becoming the manager of this situation and taking on responsibility of the public side of it, while the people who need to focus on the technical side of things can now do what they need to and hopefully get the resources they need.
	This is how any operation runs.
	When somebody is overloaded, they become the squeaky wheel and everybody jumps on them because they feel like they're working harder because of the squeaky wheel.
	And then you have a public blow up and then it's done.
	Then you solve the problem because now it's right there, very obvious.
	You put it in the box.
	So last night it got put in the box and now they can solve it.
	And having said all of this, I do want to just put it out there that I do still hold it against Keith Rowland that he took our website down over the weekend.
	So I'm just putting that out there and I'm very displeased.
	I'm Michael Vendee.
	I think we just lost our connection.
	We just lost satellite lock or earth lock.
	I don't know what's happened.
	Yeah, good.
	I'm happy.
	You know, as I've said, I've had my disagreements with Keith, but when you told me that everything was okay once more, Curtis, I will say there was a sigh of relief that I breathed.
	And I'm just going to go ahead and say this, even though you may not want me to, and we haven't mentioned the possibility of me saying this, but I did send Curtis's info over to.
	We just lost our connection.
	What was this again?
	Can you hear me?
	Seriously?
	Yeah, we can.
	Don't fuck with me in this regard because I am entirely skittish now.
	I am entirely confident that my connection could go any second.
	I sent Curtis's information over to Art last night, and I think that, you know, not necessarily at this point, it's pretty clear nobody's going to replace Keith.
	But going forward, if there should be any crossroads that are reached where it becomes evident that someone is needed in order to help shoulder some of this load, I cannot think of a better person to help in that way than Curtis Thornton.
	Well, I appreciate that.
	And obviously, anything I could do to help art, whether it's on the small scale of something very specific or in a bigger picture way, I would jump in and do what I could.
	I just wanted, like you said, I want to hear him on the air and know that we're getting that experience we used to have back in the day.
	Of course, I've always said I was late to the party.
	I wish I had joined the coast scene back in the 90s so that I would have had all the memories you guys have.
	But, of course, I've caught up throughout the years.
	So, again, anything I could do to help with that, I totally would.
	I mean, I'm glad to see that the relationship between Art and Keith is mended because who does it better than people who are that well connected?
	So, for me, I'm happy to see the things work out the way they are.
	But, you know, of course, I would do what I could to help out.
	So, I appreciate anybody thinking of me in that.
	So, Art, if you ever need help, Curtis will be happy to do so, and he will only charge you double.
	I was thinking triple, but okay.
	So, if you want to be on the show, give us a call.
	The number is 623-242-CAST.
	That is 623-242-2278, if you'd like to be on the show tonight.
	I haven't looked to see how many listeners we have.
	I think 12.
	As soon as I started talking a moment ago, it dropped down to three.
	Oh, that's a shame.
	I mean, for all of us that followed art in the 90s, Keith was a very big part of the show.
	I mean, how else would we have got to see blurry pictures of that Richard C. Hoagland was showing us?
	And, you know, we wouldn't have had that on-the-spot interaction with the website.
	And Keith was a big part of that.
	Yep, we got a caller here.
	90s.
	Keith was part of the show.
	Take away.
	You're on the air.
	Well, that was smooth.
	Jeez.
	You talking to me?
	Yes, you were on the air.
	Hi.
	Do you know who this is?
	I know who this is, but the rest of our callers do not.
	If you want to go ahead and...
	Well, it's your favorite target of bashing, Keith.
	Who are you, son of a?
	No, I'm just kidding.
	How are you?
	Hi, Keith.
	Hello.
	So what brings you to these parts this evening?
	I thought I would give you an opportunity to ask me any question you want as long as I can ask you one.
	Okay.
	This is a fun game.
	Do you actually have a beard on your neck?
	Yeah, it runs down the chin, down to the, down underneath my chin, but probably not on my neck.
	So if you were to be referred to by somebody as a neck beard, that would perhaps be a bit of a misnomer.
	I think so.
	Okay.
	Well, you have my apology.
	Does that come up often?
	Well, I'm just going to say you now have my apologies in an official capacity.
	I see.
	Well, I think I know why you've been mad at me all these years, but I'd love to know what it is specifically.
	Not years.
	I haven't been mad at you for years.
	I've just been mad at you since December of 2013.
	And not even mad.
	I mean, I don't stay up at night thinking about this, and I do still manage to make love to my wife on a regular schedule.
	So do we.
	But, well, I mean, when Curtis and I had the spec sheet on your network and I made the terrorist comment, you came in two hours before our next broadcast and told me that the comment resulted in what could only, well, what you described as an S storm.
	And I didn't think that was good form.
	thought it was a little unprofessional i thought that and furthermore you send emails out to the other hosts telling them of your displeasure with what it was that was said on the show and And I personally would have preferred it had you spoken to me immediately after whatever it was that was said on the show was said and brought it to my attention.
	So we could have discussed it privately, not two hours before the show, a week later, after emails are already sent out to all the other hosts.
	It just seemed like I was blindsided by that.
	And furthermore, I never got one single note from anybody about anything that I said on that broadcast.
	The only indication I saw anywhere on the internet that anybody had anything to say about that comment was on a website called bellgabsucks.com, where some phony woman who wears a bikini top who calls herself Sarah Brestlin, which is actually some overweight bald guy who uses Bellgab from time to time, he put a blog post up commenting on my terrorist comment.
	And I was under the impression that what likely ended up happening behind the scenes was that you were pummeled with emails or notes otherwise by this person and maybe a few people that he knew.
	And you interpreted that to be a poop storm.
	And it just seemed like it would have been best had we discussed it in person immediately after it became evident to you, or at least your perception became that there was some problem.
	Well, you apparently remember more details than I do, but here's how I remember it.
	When I was listening to the show when you did it, I didn't really have an issue with it at the time.
	I didn't think it was that serious of a deal.
	It was only brought to my attention later, and I don't know how much later that was.
	And I don't recall making statements to the rest of the host, but if you said I did, I did.
	I think I contacted you as soon as I was made aware that we probably should have a talk.
	And I don't even remember if it was an email or I phoned you, but I think I left it up to you to decide if you wanted to kind of tone down those kind of statements.
	I think we already had you toning down the language for the purposes of being here.
	And then essentially, I didn't get a whole shitstorm of email.
	Art found it.
	I don't know if he found it on Bellgab or got it somewhere else or people emailed him directly, but he's the one who noticed it and called me and we had a discussion about it.
	And we both agreed that that would probably be not a very wise thing to say on a network station that can get as big to carry art.
	And so we like to refrain from making defamatory remarks or suggesting terrorist acts.
	And so I think okay, so that's where I have to stop you.
	First of all, nobody was defamed.
	Nobody was slandered or libeled.
	No, I understand that.
	I'm telling you in general, these are the things we have to watch out for.
	Well, I understand that you have to watch out for those things, but those are very specific things to watch out for.
	Otherwise, you kind of have to just let people do what they're going to do in front of the microphone.
	Now, let me correct you.
	Both broadcast standards will restrict you from inciting people to do illegal acts.
	That's a no-no in the broadcast industry to encourage people to perform illegal acts, which you did.
	I said, Now, Keith, come on.
	You're smarter than this.
	I said, if I were a terrorist, in jest, I said, if I were a terrorist, I would drive to wherever Verizon is and suicide bomb them.
	Now, taking in the full context of the show, the person who's making that statement, the things that are known to be said on that show on a routine basis, there's no one who's going to listen to that and interpret that to be incitement of violence any more so than somebody would interpret Howard Stern having a woman hover over her speaker and speak pornography.
	Yeah, I agree with you there because I did listen to it and I didn't, you know, I knew it was something injust that you didn't seriously mean that.
	But obviously some other people did take it seriously and it caused a public relations problem for us.
	So what am I supposed to do?
	You know, well, didn't it come down to Keith that basically it was a choice on our side, I guess, you know, fall in line with that broadcast standard or we move on and do our own thing.
	Sure.
	I wasn't trying to censor you at all.
	I was just saying if you want to be here, we want to kind of conform to some ethical standard broadcast code, if you will.
	And I left it for you guys to decide.
	And you decided, as far as I recall, you decided to, you know, that we would just part ways at the time until you guys wanted to be back again, you know, under a different type of an arrangement.
	So I don't know what I can say.
	So are you?
	I think we just came to an agreement between us that you would stay off.
	So are you saying that there are circumstances in which the spec sheet could air on your stream once?
	Oh, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	I think we need a tech show, if you will.
	It'd be great to have something in there.
	But it's kind of fly loose and free.
	And so I don't know whether that's going to cramp your style.
	Well, I mean, I guess we just need to have a better understanding of what each of our individual in the background always for our show.
	Then we'll be good.
	Extremely prepared.
	It gives it that family feel, doesn't it?
	Yeah, it takes care of it.
	Well, here's the thing.
	What if we did a system where, like for me, I've cursed once in four years of doing podcasting versus Michael and anything he says.
	Can we balance that out to make it to where it's just even?
	We're at zero.
	Well, we understand occasional swear words going to fly by.
	Just people just can't help it.
	It just comes out.
	And technically, that's not illegal.
	It's just that we prefer to have things on our network that are family friendly.
	Turn it on in the middle of the room.
	Hey, the kids are here, whatever.
	We shouldn't just have a show that's filled with cuss words.
	That's all.
	But in a case, you run the clean show.
	That's understandable.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm back.
	Oh, you missed it.
	I want to jump in for a second.
	I think one of the things that happened was this is when the network was really new.
	Yes.
	And I imagine that you guys were quite nervous about anything that might have seemed a bit aberrant.
	Correct.
	So I kind of get that.
	What I don't have an answer to is where the complaints came from.
	It seemed to me from, and what my memory is on this, is that the only place that was really making a concerned post about it was the Sarah Bresslin bellgabsucks.com website.
	And quite honestly, they were just trying to cause trouble.
	And obviously they did a good job.
	So I don't know.
	Jazz, you want to say something?
	Yeah, I just want to ask.
	It previously was called the R Bell Radio Network or Bell's Dark Matter Radio Network.
	And then after that incident, the name was changed.
	Was the name changed as a result of the spec sheet terrorist comment, or was it to sort of cover you against Sirius and the non-compete contract?
	No, it was because of the incident.
	We felt that if anybody else may slip something through, because we're doing live shows, if somebody else slipped something through that could have even been more offending, that we wanted to protect art from that.
	So we just separated the two businesses, which turns out to be very beneficial for what we're going through forward now.
	So that, you know, I'm the one responsible for what the hosts are putting on, not art, because, you know, I'm running it.
	And he was basically taking a break until he could come back on the air.
	So we separated it off.
	Instead of it making an offshoot of artbell.com, we just created a new website and put it over there and just have a link to it.
	So yeah, it was purely for legal indemnification reasons.
	Okay, to kind of tighten this up and to move on from that, because there's so many other things we could talk about here.
	Has this type of issue come up with other shows in the past?
	Or is it since that moment?
	This is something that as a producer of the network you deal with on a regular basis.
	We just happen to be the first.
	Yeah, and then everything was kind of smooth sailing from that point on.
	And then I did have another show that was kind of tiptoeing on the line and getting into areas that were not really in our genre, but it was an area that this host felt he had to cover.
	And he would kind of get into secret things, if you know what I mean.
	And I gave him.
	I don't know.
	What do you mean?
	I don't know.
	I don't know what to talk about.
	I gave him three warnings.
	And I said, look, we don't want you going there.
	This is a very sensitive topic for us.
	And if you're naming names and making affiliate or making accusations or making comments about these people are guilty of this, we can't have that.
	And I've warned him three times, and then off he goes.
	So what have you learned since you've taken on the role of hosting the Dark Matter Radio Network?
	What are the things that you didn't realize going into it that you've learned?
	Oh, wow.
	I guess a whole bunch of things.
	The way that I run the network, it requires a lot of my time being here at the station because I do run pre-recorded shows, but I sit here for all of the live shows for the purposes of dealing with broken connections and checking people's audio.
	And so there's a lot of little detail work that has to be done just to keep the thing going.
	A lot of times I can just push a button and let the show run for two hours and be very confident that the host is going to conduct themselves properly and everything will work fine.
	And I can go sit in the other room or the other side of the room and enjoy it.
	But then there's shows that I have to produce and play the opening, play the closing, play break music.
	And so that gets a little more work involved.
	So once I learned the procedures, the software that does the automation, once I learned which button to push and have a smooth sequence between shows, and that got pretty easy.
	And then it was just a matter of just having to be here at the top of the hour of almost every show.
	And so that kind of got a little, it was exciting at the beginning building this thing and making it work.
	And now it's getting to be a little more tedious having to do that.
	So that was part of the draining part of things.
	So trying to find a way to make it more fun and more interesting.
	So that was one thing.
	Well, I'm sure you're also doing negotiation, right, for art with, or you were with whoever he was going to partner with that you guys decided to go away from and do your own thing.
	Yeah, that was a wasted five weeks of work.
	Yeah.
	Man.
	Can I ask you, Kate?
	Go ahead.
	No, go ahead, Jack.
	I was just going to ask, Keith, in hindsight, did Jimmy Church make the right decision, considering that he's now wallowing in obscurity?
	Well, I don't know if he made his good decision, but it was good for us because as it turns out, I think, you know, he filled space.
	He was there every night, so it was entertaining for a while.
	And then I think the show got a little bit clickish.
	He kind of had his fan base, and it got to the point where he wanted to move on to bigger and better things.
	And the key issue, which you'll recall was a major issue back in November, but he wanted to move his network independently, and he wanted to be able to go on Coast as a host.
	And if you're going to be a host on Coast, you can't be a host on us.
	I have to ask the question.
	One thing that Jimmy said regularly is that he was filling in for art.
	Was that something that he said?
	He threw that out there without vetting it through you guys, or was it blessed?
	No, he just brought that up himself.
	And I suppose if Art never did come back, well, maybe he would be the closest thing.
	But I never told him to say that.
	I didn't tell him not to say it.
	It was just his own dealings.
	He wanted to give the impression that he cozied up to art and he was going to be the heir apparent and that Art listens all the time and talks to Art all the time, which never occurred.
	I didn't realize all these lies that he was spouting until after he left.
	And then he started really ragging on us and making up stuff.
	And it was really bad, I guess, a bad breakup.
	But he thought he was doing the right thing.
	That day before he left, we talked on the phone, and he told me what he wanted to do.
	And he wanted to have a phase-over period where, okay, we're still working on our new network.
	I'd still like to stay with you for a couple more weeks.
	And I said, well, that would be fine as long as you're not saying what you're doing.
	Now, he wanted to use his time on our network to promote the fact that he was going somewhere else.
	And that's just not going to happen.
	So I said, you're going to do that.
	If you're going to say that, then you can't be here.
	It's your choice.
	And he made the choice to just, okay, he'll leave.
	And that played out the opposite way when he went on coast, because wasn't he going to promote the network, Dark Matter, during that time?
	And it really didn't seem to happen from what I remember.
	Well, this was.
	I mean, this is going before.
	Going before about, oh, I don't know, six weeks, two months before.
	Yeah, he announced that he was going to go on Coast, and I miscalculated the hurt that that would cause Art, and that was my bad.
	And did not give him advance notice that was going to happen.
	And so I got scolded about that, let's say.
	And then we decided, and Art decided, well, maybe it would be a good thing for one time for him to go over there and announce where he broadcasts from to get the word out.
	And so, you know, Jimmy did a standard just interview show, didn't take any callers.
	He didn't do any excessive promotion.
	All he just said is, you know, Jimmy from the Dark Matter Radio Network, and then off he went doing what the Coast people told him to say.
	And so it was a little minimal advertising, but it did get the word out.
	And it seemed that George was okay with that, you know, that he says on one hand he's willing to promote what we're doing in our little station over here.
	And so, you know, Jimmy did that.
	And we did get some new listeners.
	We probably raised up another 20% of listeners after that show.
	So that was worthwhile.
	And I turned into it.
	Sure.
	What kind of numbers do you run?
	How many people do actually listen to the network?
	That's secrets.
	I was going to ask that same question next.
	Well, I'll tell you that there's a link you can go to to find out our current listeners at any time.
	It's not hidden.
	It's public.
	Well, to follow up on that, the technology behind it, are you using Amazon S3 to host for that?
	Or what is the process you use behind the scenes to stream?
	Well, it's not that busy, of course.
	This isn't Art Bell numbers.
	This is just individuals doing shows.
	So I'm just using a standard IceCast streaming account.
	It's got unlimited users, unlimited bandwidth.
	It's only like $16 a month.
	So very similar to what we're doing.
	Yeah, we're just feeding a single server.
	Nice to meet you.
	I'll go ahead.
	If we were going to have to build our own infrastructure to handle Arts numbers, that would be a different story.
	We have to deal with a company that can scale.
	Right.
	Right.
	So you have a 50,000 listeners to 100,000 listeners on a turn of a dime.
	Right.
	Do you see Dark Matter?
	I don't know that this maybe has come up in conversations that Art has had on Bellgab, but I'm not sure.
	Do you plan on using the Dark Matter Radio Network to transition him onto it, or is he going to have his own separate and Dark Matter will still exist separate from that?
	No, he'll just be another show.
	It'll just be another show on a Dark Matter Network.
	The Dark Matter Network will switch over to a different CDN to deliver the stream, and everybody else will run just like normal.
	Art's show will be inserted between 9 and Midnight Pacific.
	All the shows that are currently at 9 will get pushed ahead, you know, three hours.
	And so it'll just be a simple transition.
	You're listening to the same stream.
	You hear Art come on, you listen to Art.
	When Art's done, the next show plays.
	So it's all going to be on the same stream.
	It just makes things a whole lot easier.
	Unless there's any reason to not do that.
	We haven't come up with a technical reason to have to separate it yet.
	Might be a legal reason or a licensing reason at some point.
	But at this point, we'll feed him, merge him right in.
	So he'll just come in on another slider on my board here from his digital unit, and I'll just fade out one program and fade in another.
	Perfect.
	That has to be exciting for all the people who've been helping build up this network for you with Dark Matter to be a part of it.
	Especially the live shows that'll be on just before Art.
	They're really excited to be able to coming up next, Art Bell.
	They're loving that.
	We just got Michael back.
	He had dropped for just a moment.
	I hope you've got me back.
	This whole time, I've just been smashing windows.
	Michael's three windows.
	I pulled my refrigerator over.
	It's been a disaster.
	World peace taken care of.
	Global warming, not a problem.
	Riots in Baltimore not happening anymore.
	I mean, you really missed the meat and potatoes of this conversation.
	I swear to you, I am so disappointed right now.
	I mean, of all the times for me not to be able to hear what's happening on the show.
	For you not to be hosting, I mean, it's like that would, or to be doing all the technical side of it, here I am, a novice in it.
	I suppose you could always go to ufoshift.com, right?
	I've never heard of this site.
	It doesn't sound like something I would use, sir.
	Keith, can you maybe explain how you came to be Art's right-hand man or his web designer?
	Were you a fan to begin with who was just listening every night and would send emails?
	Or how did this all come about?
	Wow, that's an ancient story, but I'll give you the short version so we can get more questions if you like.
	I moved out to Arizona from Michigan in 1989, and I was a programmer doing business software, and as programmers usually do, they stay up late at night doing stuff.
	And eventually I tuned around the dial and heard this guy, Art Bell, on the local station in Phoenix.
	And this was back when art was being distributed by CBC, I think it was.
	And got to listening to it.
	Art wasn't doing paranormal so much.
	It was more of a political talk show, and it was very interesting.
	We had a lot of cool guests and open lines, man.
	It was the same dynamics.
	And so it was something nice to listen to at night.
	And then this thing called the internet came around, and it was kind of interesting to get on there, and you get an internet account, and you get a free web account.
	And so I says, well, what am I going to do with this?
	And right around this time, Art was using his bulletin board system in his studio to distribute materials, images, and things like that.
	And all of a sudden, one day, this alien autopsy photos came around.
	And he put it up on his bulletin board.
	And only one person at a time could get in there and download them.
	So I said, well, you know, I'm not a very interesting person to have a web page.
	Why don't I make a web page for this guy art?
	And we'll start out by posting these pictures so that everybody online can all get them at the same time and not have to struggle through the bulletin board.
	So I put together some little page, and back then, there was no such thing as you could put up artbell.com.
	So it happened to be, you know, myinternetproviders.com/slash kr slash artbell.html, you know, something like that.
	Yeah, I remember those.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So I put this page up, and I don't recall how I got it, you know, out there publicly for people to find it, but I did somehow and gathered some people to come to it.
	And that kind of grew a little by little.
	And eventually, Art noticed it and gave me a phone call or an email or something.
	He'd tell me, give me a call.
	And so we chatted on the phone, and he asked me how it was going and what I was doing.
	I explained it to him, and I would just do this for him and just have fun doing it.
	That's what I do.
	And he said, okay, go ahead and do it.
	And that started it all.
	Wow.
	The Keith Rowland origin story.
	That's a good story to hear it.
	We've got to have as part of this the artbell.com CDs because didn't you produce that?
	Sure, you did.
	Okay.
	Can you talk about that a little bit?
	Sure.
	On one of the times that Art was leaving the network, it seemed to be a more final time because, I mean, he had to leave for a little while and come back a couple times, and everything we sailed through that okay.
	And I still kept the artbell.com website.
	But when it got to the point of officially changing the name of the program to Coast to Coast AM with George Nori, this was a planned exit for Art to leave broadcasting on the show at the end of the year or whatever period of time it was.
	And so this was the time where artbell.com would be shut down and there would be a new website, Coast to Coast AM, that somebody else was going to operate.
	So I says, well, why don't we take a snapshot of all this stuff we built up over the years and put it on a CD for people to preserve and have themselves and have nice artwork on a CD and make it a real collectible item.
	And so I partnered up with a CD production house to produce these CDs.
	I created all of the files and put them on the disc and prepared the master, if you will, and then it went off to the production.
	And as part of my exit strategy with Premiere was that I wanted to run an ad for the CDs during those bottom-of-the-hour breaks during Art's show so that if a station didn't cover it up with their own ads, my ad would go out over the same stations, you know, 500-plus stations.
	And so from that, we got a lot of response.
	We had thousands of people order this CD.
	And so that helped.
	I think I had probably was able to do that for six weeks, maybe two months, but it seems more like six weeks near those last six weeks when Art was on the air.
	And we weren't going to be able to until probably a month after art left because of the production and so on.
	So this company was fielding a whole lot of phone calls.
	And one of the funny things is the company that was fielding the 800-number phone calls, he's saying, This thing is costing us a fortune.
	These people call up, and they don't only want to order the CD, they want to tell you their story.
	That's the closest they're going to get to art.
	So these poor operators are sitting here listening for five and ten minutes to people's stories.
	They can't get them off the phone.
	I have to ask with that.
	I just had this vision in my mind.
	When you talk to art, what is that like for us sitting for years listening to him on the air and then some of us being lucky enough to call in and have a conversation with him, jazz being one of those?
	Since you were a fan first, do you always have that feeling of this is art from coast to coast and dark matter?
	Or are you two good enough friends who talk enough that you're past that or well past that at this point?
	Yeah, that's developed over time.
	I mean, initially, you know, yeah, you know, it's Art Bell, and we didn't have too many conversations between it.
	Once we got the website up and running, we didn't talk too much until later when we finally got the artbell.com domain running, and he started promoting it on the show.
	We had more and more visuals to go with the radio show.
	Then we talked more.
	And so we got a feel for each other's personality, and I think we got along fine.
	I respected what he does, and he respected what I was doing.
	And it was a nice, to use the term, a nice marriage made there that we complimented each other.
	So we just continued on a business relationship doing that.
	And so just over the years, we just learned more about each other.
	And now our phone calls are more casual.
	They do get a little bit intense when we're doing business stuff and things are not going our way or they are going our way.
	So, I mean, I still have to respect the man and listen to what he has to say.
	My fortune is based on his fortune.
	So as long as he's making good, then I'm making good.
	So I have to respect that.
	Since you mentioned that, can you talk at all about the controversy, we'll call it in air quotes, that's occurred over the last 24 hours?
	Is there anything you can share with us?
	I'd rather not go into that right now.
	Okay.
	But at this point, you have a good feel for what the future holds.
	We only want you to read three emails between you and Art.
	Go.
	No, it's more like, again, we're so into discussing the business aspect of it that we lose touch of our personal feelings and our personal relationship.
	And so things were either said or not said that could have smoothed things over because we're so caught up in the moment of dealing with issues.
	And you get to the point where you might say things back and forth that didn't come off just right.
	And so I think we had a great talk today about how I was feeling and how he was feeling.
	And he corrected me on some things.
	And I expressed some things that were concerning me.
	So we agreed that we're going to work a little bit harder at talking and communicating.
	And I think that's real well.
	Because doing something like this, that keeps us so busy.
	It just takes a lot of your personal time away.
	And when there's things to deal with all day long and you're jumping on the phone here and there, it just starts taking away from your personal time.
	And so hopefully we can have a little breather here while we've got a lot of work done and our conversations can be a lot more productive.
	And I certainly appreciate the fact that Art reached out and felt that I was a good asset and a major player in making this happen for him.
	And so we came together on terms again.
	And so I think we'll do good going forward.
	My only request in that is that you do this on my timetable, too.
	So I need you to be more from 8 o'clock in the morning to 5 o'clock in the afternoon between all public spats so I can be involved in it rather than asleep.
	Well, sorry about that.
	Hey, Keith, this is Michael.
	I got a question.
	One thing I never understood, when Art left Premiere, I didn't understand why they didn't do everything in their power to keep you.
	I mean, on the one hand, it seems like they've done everything they can conceivably do in every regard one could imagine to hold on to that Art Bell legacy all the way down to George just a couple of nights ago saying, want to take a ride.
	I mean, so you would think they would hold on to the great Keith Rowland.
	Why in the hell were you not the webmaster for the website after Art left?
	Well, this probably goes to the lovable but gruff Kay Rowland here.
	When Art got bought out by Premiere, when he was with JCOR, they obviously wanted me to come on board with the company also to run the website.
	They weren't running any websites at the time.
	And so that was fine.
	They needed me.
	And so they just begged and begged for me to come on board.
	I said, oh, okay, we'll do a salary thing and we'll do a revenue share on the website.
	It's okay, fine.
	So things went along just fine.
	And I guess that, I don't know if that went along how many years, three years, four years, et cetera.
	But I'm operating out of Phoenix and they're in L.A.
	And so while I'm doing work remotely, I'm not in their cubicles with everybody else is.
	So things were a little difficult there.
	But I got the job done.
	In fact, they had me help build up the first Rush Limbaugh site.
	They had me work on the Dr. Laura website.
	And I did some programming and customization on Jim Rome, I think it was.
	And so I had a lot going on.
	They actually installed a satellite dish in my backyard so I could pick up the actual Star Guide satellite.
	And so I could pick up Art's show and Rush's show and Dr. Laura's show.
	And I would record all those shows for the purposes of creating sound clips to put back up on the websites.
	And some of the sound clips went to, you know, Rush eventually got his own webmaster staff in New York.
	And so they would tell me what clips they liked.
	I would extract them from my recordings and send them to them.
	And those got posted.
	And same thing for Dr. Laura.
	But as they ramped up their web department now in Sherman Oaks, California, so they basically had somebody in charge of doing Dr. Laura, somebody doing Rome.
	And of course, Rush was done in New York.
	And so they didn't really need my talents to keep those things going anymore.
	I did build out a multiple server load balancing website to put into the California data center.
	I had, I think, eight computers all being load balanced with a couple of DNS servers.
	And it worked pretty well.
	I need you to save that for a spec sheet call right there.
	Okay.
	That's true.
	I'm enjoying this, but I don't know about the rest of our audience.
	Right, right.
	So I'll move on to the logistical part.
	Actually, Jasmine has a question for you.
	Well, after a few years, once they got their staff ramped up, And I still have, you know, I have a high expectation of things to make things operate correctly.
	But they eventually hired a system admin in Sherman Oaks to maintain the infrastructure of the rest of all their sites.
	So we had Art and Rush and Laura all running on the same server that I built.
	And I don't know, for whatever reason, the relationship I had between that sysadmin, you know, he had a whole different way of wanting to run things.
	And he got very paranoid that I was trying to sabotage things he was doing.
	And I wasn't doing anything but the sort.
	I had some automated scripts running that would automatically do some changes on the websites at certain times.
	And this guy didn't know about it.
	So he thought I was hacking in every hour doing multiple things on multiple servers.
	And it was nothing but an automated script.
	But he was just getting very obstinate about it.
	I don't know.
	And anyway, so we had a little feud going on.
	And so they basically fired me and eventually fired the other guy.
	They just didn't want to hear the crap.
	I think we should blame Tommy and just leave it there.
	Well, I didn't even know if Tommy was in the back.
	I lost my Skype connection again as you were giving that answer.
	I heard the word crap at the end, and that was it.
	So I don't blame Tommy.
	So I'm not sure the timing on this, if anybody remembers, but I think I quit helping run the system part of things, and I just kept just doing the Art Bell site until Art retired on that point.
	So I wasn't an employee for them doing their sysadmin stuff at the time Art left.
	I was just doing the website.
	So once Art left and they decided to roll their own coast to coast AM, by then they had a staff of people to do that.
	They didn't need me at that point.
	And it's all a templated system anyway at that point, I'm sure.
	Yeah.
	Okay, Jazz, you have to.
	Yeah, Keith, I just want to thank you for the years of providing us with all those links and those photos that you would upload to the site.
	It really made the listening experience and just having stuff there in real time.
	I listened to the show a lot sitting my computer, so it was great.
	So I just want to thank you for that.
	And just between you and me, do you still have access to any of the archive shows?
	I only want to answer that question.
	I'm going to have a lot of personal copies, but which are not being distributed for legal reasons.
	But if we were to have a party at your house, you'd let us listen to them.
	I could possibly do that.
	Perfect.
	We would all just be sitting around doing lines of coke on big reel-to-reel tapes.
	Well, Keith, would you be willing to take some callers?
	If there is such a thing, I thought we only have seven of us sitting around a table here.
	Yes, we've had a few people call in, but I thought we should wait and have a conversation.
	So if anyone wants to call in, you got a dump delay button?
	No, we don't.
	Are we on the dark matter stream too?
	Oh, no, no.
	No, I was going to say.
	I was going to say we're live and unfiltered, unscreened calls.
	I get it.
	So I know we had a couple people who were trying to call in earlier.
	If you want to jump in really quickly here, I don't want to keep you.
	Curtis, this never works when you don't have a call at the moment.
	You say, okay, everybody, go ahead and call now.
	They never do.
	They always leave.
	But we had a call right when I said that and they hung there.
	They dropped.
	I didn't want to just jump into another call right then.
	So I wanted to give them a quick chance to try to call back in.
	But if not, anything, Keith, you'd like to share with, obviously, we have a big bell gab audience here.
	Anything we haven't covered that?
	Well, I'll just say the same thing.
	I say, you know, give me the benefit of the doubt.
	There's people out there that seem to have been wronged by me, and I don't know what it is.
	All I see is the negative opinions that get posted on Bell Gab.
	And I don't know the details of why they think they were wronged.
	And so I never am able to find myself on those issues.
	You know what I think it was?
	I think a lot of people, particularly maybe during the dark matter, the end of that saga, I think people saw you as maybe you were being the negotiator with Sirius.
	And because things didn't go everyone's way, I think people sort of took, you know, used you as the punching bag rather than attacking art.
	You know, it was just easier to blame some other guy.
	And maybe that's what it was.
	I have no idea.
	Here we are.
	I don't hold any grudge against you.
	I was absolutely not part of any of those negotiations.
	Yeah, but I think the general consensus was that you were.
	Not from me, but I'm saying that's my perception of it.
	And I think people used you as the punching bag.
	Do we still have you?
	Nope.
	I think I just messed up our call.
	Hold on just a moment.
	Hello, Curtis.
	Okay, are you there, Keith?
	That was fun.
	Sorry about that.
	I was censored.
	Oh, no.
	I'm sorry to say, but what you just said there, I can't let that go over our heads.
	Sure, yeah.
	That was your form of the dump button.
	Yeah.
	I think what Jazz was saying is probably a big part of it, that people needed a direction to vent frustration.
	And also, I mean, I think there were several instances out there where maybe you say the first thing on your mind, and if you had a chance to go back and rethink it, maybe you wouldn't have said things the way you did before.
	And we all do that.
	That's part of life.
	Well, that's why I need the benefit of the doubt sometimes.
	Anyway, regarding this Sirius thing, I was not part of any of the negotiation of trying to keep art on Sirius other than both Art and myself are begging Sirius to fix their software player.
	It was difficult for people to listen to the show on their player because it would air out.
	It would never buffer anything.
	As soon as it lost data, it would just stop.
	You had to constantly restart it.
	And every other single MP3 streaming player out there in the world knows how to buffer data, give you a little spinning ball, and then when it comes in, catch up and start playing it.
	But their player did not.
	And so it was a simple matter of, you know, a programmer could have spent an hour fixing that thing.
	And they just would not task anybody with doing that process.
	So I struck out to say, well, let's see what we can do with a stream because you can use VLC and all these other little MB3 players to listen to a standard ice cast shout cast stream.
	We'll just bring one up.
	And so I did that.
	And you recall it used to be called the internet streaming test.
	And we proved that we could provide a stream.
	And so it was a simple matter of asking XM, will you let us stream it live?
	Because your live stream is not working out for us.
	Keep it up on the satellite.
	But can we at least offer the stream so it can be playable?
	And they wouldn't hear of that either.
	So we were kind of out of luck.
	We were out of options.
	And the rest is history, as you know.
	Yeah, see, that has to be extremely frustrating because obviously you want art on the air just as much as we do.
	I was heartbroken.
	I just hated to hear that that was what was going to happen.
	But you had to make that offer.
	Art had to do what he had to do to get them to move off the dime.
	And they just called us bluff.
	And there you go.
	Yep, that's, I guess that's the cost of doing it.
	You know, everybody knows that's what happened.
	Yeah, and of course, I mean, you had fans who were paying for a lot of people.
	Yeah, so I don't know why fans were blaming me for this.
	Well, I think at that point, I think everyone was looking for the direction.
	I mean, I totally fall into this too, is you're looking for what's the most plausible thing to happen or a plausible explanation for why things fell apart like they did.
	So everyone's looking for their scapegoat.
	And I think you became the unfortunate most obvious voice.
	You were the after art, what other name did they know?
	So there you go.
	Let me try taking another call here really quick.
	Let's give them my shot.
	See what we get here.
	I apologize if I put you on hold again here.
	Camellia.
	Give us silk.
	Yo, yo.
	Okay, hold on just a moment.
	Let me see if I can.
	Oh, my God.
	What's happening here?
	That's not working.
	Why not?
	Okay, I'm having technical issues on my side.
	Okay, obviously I'm no good at trying to merge these calls.
	Oh, God, what is happening over there?
	If only, Michael, you had been hosting everything today.
	Add to group.
	Add to group.
	Yeah, no.
	Well, for some reason, it's not letting me do that.
	I'm on my Mac.
	Skype really is just a pile of garbage.
	Skype is horrible.
	Yeah, the problem is I'm using Skype on a Mac when I'm used to using it on a PC.
	I'm going to bring everybody on hold or just me?
	I have two different Skypes running.
	You're on a separate Skype, and that's the one that's going to come on hold because it's the same line that callers are coming in.
	So anyone else have any more questions I want to keep Keith on any longer if I can't take some calls?
	No, I'm good.
	You got me.
	Well, let me just say.
	I have to go pee.
	Can anybody hear me?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Okay, Keith, before you go, I would like to formally say I do apologize to you for any mean or nasty things I've said in the past out of my misplaced anger.
	And I hope you accept that.
	And if you'd be willing to have the spec sheet back on your network, I think that would be lovely.
	And we would accept.
	I think we would just need to have a better understanding of what our expectations are of one another.
	And everything could be juicy.
	And when do you record this show or do the show?
	I appreciate your apology.
	Thank you very much.
	You're welcome.
	Thank you.
	We do it typically Tuesday nights at 7 o'clock, but that doesn't have to be written in stone.
	Yeah, that's probably not going to work for live, but if you do record it and you want to play it at a different time shift.
	Well, we can certainly record it in 7.
	What time zone?
	That would be central.
	Yeah, I'm sorry, 7 Central.
	So that's 6 Mountain.
	6.
	Yeah, that's right in the middle of a show.
	Well, what we can do is we can just do the show and send you the recording.
	Yeah, I got time on Sunday.
	I've only got seven hours on Sunday.
	I'd like to add another hour, make it even eight.
	Or is it run?
	How long does it run?
	Well, it typically goes all over the place.
	Until we run out of steam is what we're doing.
	Well, that's why I usually, people that have variable-length shows, I put them at the end of the schedule.
	So everything can kind of stay on the top of the hour until these variable shows, and I put them at the end.
	So they just run until they run.
	And so I'd be willing to do that either on any one of the nights that I have a short short schedule.
	Well, let me ask you this.
	How long would you like the show to be?
	One hour would leave them all wishing for more, wouldn't it?
	Yeah, but I don't get enough time to scream and pound on the desk.
	He can also put a good rant in there, and that usually takes at least 30 minutes to get built up to.
	You might have to edit that out.
	I don't know.
	Then you would just have me talking.
	I'm very boring.
	I'm going to go to an hour and a half to one, whatever you want.
	Okay, that sounds perfect.
	I mean, if we can just, if we can just suffice it to say as long as it's two or less, then I think everybody's going to be happy.
	Yeah.
	And if it, you know, if it can stay on the tech topic, that's great.
	I don't know that you need a whole lot of curse words to talk about tech.
	Do you?
	I have no problem, nor did we previously.
	When we were given the instruction or the condition that we could not use profanity, that was not a problem at all.
	That was very fair.
	That was very well accommodating for me.
	Thank you.
	Well, we will certainly do that again, Keith.
	It might be hard for me now.
	I mean, I've taken on to decursing, you know, once every three or four years.
	I don't know.
	The only time I hear Curtis use words like the C-bomb is when he's speaking to his wife in the background.
	Oh, my God.
	Otherwise, he's very milquetoast.
	Yeah, I want to hear this audio, too.
	Well, thank you very much, Keith, for joining us.
	Yeah, Keith, really.
	You know, you really do have a pair of castinets.
	If I were you, I wouldn't have called tonight.
	Well, I was hoping to clear the air and get a chance to find out what your guys' all issues are with me and at least give you my side of the story because it's just been a factor in my decision over the last day or two, if you get my drift.
	Well, I'm glad you called, but I am still displeased by your beard.
	Well, I need more?
	What are you talking about?
	Need more?
	My wife keeps telling me to cut it shorter, shorter.
	You presented yourself very well, sir.
	Thank you very much.
	I don't know what happened.
	I'm almost upset that you seem so reasonable and relatable tonight.
	I'm not going to sleep well tonight.
	My wife is going to be a little bit more.
	Funny thing we learned.
	He's more mature than all of us put together.
	That doesn't bode well.
	Well, see, we just needed to have this conversation right after the whole serious situation played out.
	And then this would be a very boring call.
	I think what was the issue was because, you know, I've chalked it up to people will email me about things and demand I do this or tell me how to do that.
	And, okay, I'll listen, but I'm still going to do things the way I see fit.
	And people go away mad because I didn't take their suggestions and implement them.
	Oh, hey, Keith.
	Keith, Keith, I dropped it off.
	Keith, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about this.
	And I don't know if anyone asked you this while I was having all my Skype issues here.
	But you know this guy Mallard who used to do a show on your network.
	And he's been very public about having been miffed as a result of his business, I guess you could say, relationship with you.
	He says that you tweeted something nasty about his wife filling in on his show for him.
	And that resulted in the end of his show appearing on your network.
	And he's mentioned this several times on Bell Gab.
	And I think that this would be a good moment for that to be addressed.
	Sure.
	Jim had been doing an okay show.
	He had some good guests.
	I did critique him a lot to try to get him to improve.
	And he took some of that advice and not some others.
	And he's always had a guest and he always had some good topics.
	But then all of a sudden one night, for whatever reason, I don't know if his guest dropped out or whatever, he had his wife come on as his guest and they were kind of doing movie reviews.
	And I, again, tweeted out kind of jokingly saying, who hijacked the Jim Mallard show?
	It's like, it wasn't the regular show.
	It was something different.
	That's all I said.
	I haven't actually seen what you said.
	Well, it's probably been destroyed long ago.
	But it was just poking fun at the fact that this was not the regular show.
	Who hijacked the show and so on.
	And he took offense at that.
	And he, rather than taking that as a joke, he turned around and accused me of being some mean ogre, idiot monster that criticized his show and he should have never done that and on and on and on.
	And so he basically raised a big stink about it.
	And, you know, I didn't realize that something like that would offend him.
	It was just, you know, a light-hearted comment.
	But he took it the wrong way.
	And so he basically posted on his blog and his Twitter or whatever avenues of social media he has.
	He just lit into me like crazy.
	And so I said, well, if you're going to be that way, we're just, you know, we'll just stop being part of here.
	And think I said, well, do you want to stay here, Jim, or not?
	And he says he didn't care.
	And so I just dropped it for that reason that he attacked me many more times more than what I said to him.
	And the show was still kind of mediocre the way he came off as a host.
	Now, that being said, if you went to his Mallard Report website, he listed like 25, 26 different affiliates that he operates out of.
	He didn't need little oh me as a network.
	I mean, a few hundred listeners to his show is minuscule compared to all these affiliates that he claims he has.
	And so I didn't feel like I was taking away some big prize away from him.
	You know, I had better shows that I could put on, and that's where I left it.
	And I thought weeks or months later, we had a communique or so, and it seemed to be polite enough.
	But if he's still holding a grudge, you know, I'm sorry about that.
	But I just felt that I needed to remove him from the network for those reasons.
	That's where I was.
	He was just so angry with me, and I don't need somebody to be that angry with me.
	Okay, fair enough.
	It's just been mentioned so many times publicly.
	I feel like it's just one of those elephants of the world.
	Well, it's not like I got mad at him and ran him off.
	It's just that he reverse attacked me because of a comment I made.
	Now, maybe I should have said that.
	He said that you photoshopped photos of his wife.
	Comment?
	Never.
	Really?
	No.
	Okay, Keith.
	I'm sorry, go ahead.
	No, I was saying, you know, okay, it sounded like somebody was.
	I'm usually a humorous guy, and that's the problem.
	I'll make my jokes here and there, and people.
	Well, see, that's the problem with the written word.
	Context is lost frequently.
	That's why we need to hear your voice.
	Yes, you're a reasonable, good guy.
	Right now, I hate myself for not liking you right now.
	That's why I jumped in tonight, because that's usually what happens.
	Once I have an actual conversation with people, then you get an idea where I'm coming from, what I'm all about.
	Years of me being on Team MV, it's going to be kind of hard now after this call, man.
	I booted redacted from the show tonight.
	I didn't like Keith Rowland.
	I hate myself.
	Keithie, you've prepared for the emails that will inevitably come in if the stream goes down or people are having problems connecting to the stream once art comes back.
	Well, we're working with one of the largest providers of streaming out there.
	So if they can't handle it, nobody can.
	So that's where we're going to sit.
	We're going to have, you know, like I say, we don't know where we're going to start.
	And we're just going to leave the whole fire hose line on and see how many come in.
	And then if their system gets strained, that'll be something that they'll deal with.
	So, yeah, we'll accept the emails.
	It is what it is.
	How popular is Art Bell still going to be?
	He's got a thousand followers on Facebook.
	And we've got over 21,000 followers on TuneIn.
	So you guess as good as mine is how many are going to want to listen that first night.
	And these places, they're able to handle 100,000 or more concurrent streams at one time.
	And so if we get that the first night, we'll be happy.
	If we have to put a cap at $100,000 because it's breaking their system, they'll do that.
	And then tomorrow they'll throw some more hardware at it, and maybe we can handle more.
	But we would, you know, we don't want to have to.
	It's like we're scared, yet we're happy, but we're scared.
	It's like we're happy to have a hold of all those listeners.
	We're scared that it's too money, too much, and we'll have other issues regarding that.
	Well, being scared means you're breaking ground, and that's a good thing.
	Well, yeah, it's a risk for both Art and myself, both financially and workload-wise.
	And we shall see.
	I did make a deal with an ad agency man who will start rounding up some sponsorships, and so that'll be great.
	So we'll have some income from that.
	Probably pretty close to startup time.
	We'll introduce the subscription model system on the website so that people can sign up for that.
	Probably offer some kind of an introductory rate, maybe, maybe not.
	I haven't told Art this, but I think after the $5 rate for six months, we probably ought to raise it to $6.66 for everything after that.
	I don't think you're going to hear much complaints from the Bellgap side of that.
	Keith, this is a Christian show, please.
	If you could restrict that.
	Well, it's in the Bible, so there you go.
	Well, that's true.
	It's in the Bible.
	There you go.
	Okay, Keith.
	Well, thank you for calling.
	Really quick.
	I've got one last thing.
	Sorry, it just hit me.
	Damn it, Curtis.
	I know.
	can't help it uh okay so everyone bring on more questions I know.
	This is the last one, I promise.
	So there's all kinds of people who want to help in any way they can.
	What is it that the fans of art that are on Bellgap can do to help you make your life less stressed?
	Well, the volunteers that have helped to scour the web every day looking for pirated streams and pirated podcasts, that will be very helpful.
	And I contacted those people and gave them the lowdown on what we're going to attempt to do.
	So that'll be great.
	It's one less thing I have to do every day.
	And Keith, yes.
	In the course of, I've got a verbal crutch.
	I noticed this when I was listening to the show.
	I keep saying in the course of, I don't know how many times I have to have hit my head on something to make that occur, but it's a problem.
	Anyway, are you guys going to be posting any content to YouTube or any of the usual places where the pirates often post things in sort of an attempt to stem that tide?
	That's a different question I asked, and I said only one last.
	Well, it's tough to monetize a YouTube as efficiently as a subscription service because it's based on advertising revenue.
	So it depends on whether people listen to the ad, watch the ad, click skip ad, just let it roll by.
	So there's a wide variety of revenue that could be generated by us doing our own YouTube postings.
	Yeah, but I don't necessarily mean for the purpose of getting ad spins.
	I mean just for the purpose of just from time to time putting a show out there and saying, hey, everybody, Art Bell's back.
	We could do that.
	Yeah, I think we'll create our own channel and occasionally post a show.
	It'll probably be the one without music because we don't want to have to pay the fees again.
	Even posting some clips.
	So we'll do that on ArtGell.com all the time.
	I mean, if anybody knows what I used to do, I'd extract famous callers and famous bits that were going on and segments and post that up on artbell.com all the time.
	So that'll always be there.
	But as far as full programs, that would be a little extra work to put all that together.
	And you've got to add video to it to get it up on YouTube.
	So it just amazes me how much time people invest in stealing the program.
	Yeah, what's fine?
	I'm not even going to be downloading the podcast.
	I'm just going to pay the five bucks as a salute.
	Hello, appreciate the product.
	Happy to pay.
	Well, that's sweet.
	Because downloading the podcast costs the same amount of bandwidth as streaming it to you.
	So, we're, you know, if people can't listen live and they download it the next morning, that's great because it's the same cost whether they listen or they download it, and we're getting paid for the download.
	So, that's that's a beautiful thing.
	So, now we can cover our costs.
	Did I finish answering that one question you had, Curtis?
	Yeah, I think you did.
	Yeah, yeah, good enough for now.
	Well, awesome.
	And, Keith, before you go, what are you wearing?
	I'm wearing my pink ballerina outfit.
	Well, that's what we all envisioned.
	I just wanted confirmation.
	I know you guys are into ballerinas.
	Okay.
	Well, Keith, thank you for calling in.
	I really do appreciate it.
	I think everybody does.
	Next time we do a spec sheet, which should be sometime later this week, we'll send you the audio.
	You plop it in wherever you like.
	All right.
	I'll go back listening at this UFO ship thing here.
	Oh, my.
	No, maybe not.
	All right.
	Nice, fellas.
	Okay, nice.
	Thank you.
	Keith, thank you very much for calling.
	Yes, sir.
	Okay, so we have lots of people who have been trying to call in.
	Well, that blew up the whole website, didn't it?
	Yeah.
	I feel bad that I can't add people to the call, but I don't have the add-to-call button available for some reason.
	This is driving me crazy.
	I'm sitting here watching everyone trying to call in and just frantically searching to figure out what my problem was.
	Sorry, I was so focused on that.
	I think that was a good conversation, wasn't it?
	We got to hear it.
	The conversation was everything it needed to be.
	Exactly.
	That just shows where sometimes you just got to pick the phone up and talk.
	Oh, my God.
	I just had the shit scared out of me.
	I was going to, I browse to bellgab.com and I see a picture of some chick in a pink dress twirling an umbrella, and I almost soiled myself, and then I realized, oh, I left out the G. What?
	Belab.
	Yeah.
	Is it a porn side?
	No, it's just some.
	Oh, nice.
	But I, you know, after the events of this weekend, I'm a little bit trepidatious.
	Nice.
	For sure.
	That conversation was everything it needed to be.
	I hate myself for having been mad at Keith.
	No.
	Well, here's the thing: the past is the past, and there's no reason to try to retroactively fix it.
	All there is, all that's left is this moment, and we can do a massive thought experiment of positivity to move forward to make sure art ends up back on the air.
	I love it.
	I will tell you, as I sit here at this moment, I'm more certain than I've ever been that July is going to be a hit.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I was going to say, but everyone resounding now.
	Thanks for showing up.
	Good job, Michael.
	There was a post right after Art did the initial conversation last night, I guess, about what was going down at that moment.
	And I think it was the general or it was Bateman just wrote, I'm at 4%.
	And if you don't listen regularly to the Gabcast, you wouldn't get that comment probably, but I loved it when I saw that.
	You loved the fact that people were even less convinced that it was going to be back.
	How did you love that?
	No, I love the fact that that one line there means so much about what percentage you're at.
	It was a great callback to a long-running joke.
	Maybe I don't get the callback.
	Well, what percent are you?
	Remember, we went around the room saying, what percent are you right now?
	Okay.
	And so you just posted, I'm at 4%.
	It was like, perfect.
	I'd say now I'm at 99.9.
	How about you, Onan?
	I wasn't listening.
	I'm sorry.
	Perfect.
	He's at 72%.
	Jasmine, I'm going to assume you're at a healthy 19.2.
	No, I'm a lot higher than I was, but even when we made the, I think just after we made those predictions last week, then Art made, well, a few weeks ago, Art made the announcement that he's coming back.
	No, the show's going to happen.
	My concern is how long will it last?
	We've had an announcement that he's not coming back.
	We've got a caller on the line.
	Hello.
	Wonderful.
	Hey, I can finally take a call.
	You better be the most exciting call we've had because this show is kind of low right now.
	Can't fill those shoes now.
	Now that you had Keith on here.
	Sorry about that.
	I know you tried to call a couple times there, and I'm obviously having technical difficulties on my side.
	That was kind of good because it was right after you said, if you have any questions for Keith, and I didn't.
	I was calling right before you said that, so I was just like, oh, okay, well, I don't.
	Yeah.
	Obviously, board operator is not in my future.
	Skype just giving you guys a hard time tonight, or is it?
	Skype is an abomination.
	I don't know what to do.
	I even switched to another computer.
	I power cycled my whole network.
	It's a disaster.
	I hate Skype.
	I was just calling to, you know, I mean, all the people that were offering their professional help to art when this thing was on hiatus, I'm just letting him know that that help is out there still and should be utilized in addition to what Keith can and will be doing for him.
	And what I meant was, you know, by YouTube is, you know, because I don't know if you remember when Dark Matter started, there was a user on Bellgab that made a lot of viral videos to help get that going.
	Like promotional leading up to that.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Was that Saucy Ross?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And I think they even posted in here that, you know, something like that should be done again.
	And I agree.
	And I think that's what kind of what I was offering with my post was like, you know, you have people here that may not be so much tied into the broadcast side of it, but I do know a lot of people in TV and a bunch of other like musicians and stuff like that and label heads.
	And, you know, if they know that, you know, somebody that they might have listened to in the past is coming back and stuff, you know, that it's just, it's not, no bad publicity could come of it.
	So I guess thank you.
	We probably should have said who this was calling in to.
	I just went straight into it.
	This is chameleon.
	Sorry, guys.
	It's okay.
	No, that's my fault, too, for not giving you an entrance there.
	And I understand that you mentioned Saucy Ross.
	Oh, sorry.
	Go ahead.
	This Skype just sucks my ass.
	Never mind.
	I was going to say, listening to Keith, though, I do kind of get a different side of, you know, and he did have me in his court.
	I mean, up until he did kind of come down on the piracy thing, I got to be honest with you, a lot of the shows that I'm listening to now, I wasn't fortunate enough to record in the 90s.
	So yes, I did have to find them and download them.
	And I don't know if you guys remember Mystery Science Theater, but at the end of that show, you remember they used to write, keep circulating the tapes.
	So, you know, there's got to be a grassroots thing there, too.
	That, you know, I understand uploading the show, but restreaming it is totally dick move.
	But, you know, you got to be able to download it and hand it off to a friend and, you know, get them involved.
	Like I'm getting that Australian girl involved.
	You know, I had to condense all Art Bell's stuff to her in like five days.
	So having those shows is going to be useful.
	Well, the thing is that he's got to toe a very tight line because this is a business for him and for art.
	So he's going to have to say the things that he said.
	He can't promote.
	Oh, yeah.
	I understand him saying that he's not in favor of everybody just going out and spreading what they're going to be charging for.
	But I just wanted to know that there's the dick move piracy, and then there's the effect of piracy.
	It's all about yourself.
	That's a very go ahead, Michael.
	Michael, he's trying to come up with another, you know.
	Even I couldn't even get along with MV.
	Yeah, this is your podcast, man.
	Can you guys hear me now?
	Yes.
	Yeah, you sound pretty bad.
	I accidentally kicked the headset out of the USB.
	Well, there you go.
	I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't kick your headset while you're on the call with me.
	Yeah, I do think that you have to distinguish between dick piracy and the type of piracy that gets that grassroots thing going.
	Hold on.
	How many people wouldn't have even heard about Art Bell had it not been for all of the pirated Art Bell broadcasts from the 1990s that they've downloaded and listened to?
	I'm fully in that category.
	I barely knew who he was until I heard pirated streams of him.
	If I find some asshole out there who's running a stream where he simulcasts Art's broadcast every night, or someone who's making the show publicly available, even going so far as to create an RSS feed where you can get it as a podcast, both of those guys are dicks.
	Yeah, see, that's the type of fucked up stuff that I'm talking about.
	But like, what else?
	I'm in another room sometimes, like a chat room, and you're allowed to play YouTube links there and other SoundCloud links.
	And occasionally, I'll upload, like, I'll have to cut out all the songs, obviously, but I'll upload one of this stuff just to share with like four or five people that are in that room.
	So, and then that got them hella interested in the guy, and they're actually looking forward to him coming back, and they've never even heard of him until I showed them.
	Well, that's like music back in the day when you would have a bootleg of a recording and you'd share it with your friends.
	I mean, it's not like you're going and making a catalog that people are buying into so that they can pick their bootlegs they can listen to.
	You're just trying to.
	And nowadays, they got it to where they're so complaining about it now that they have to downgrade the FM quality because they're concerned that people outside of the car might be getting too good of a listen on, you know, on a.
	It's ridiculous.
	Yeah.
	That's absurd.
	Well, yes, Jasmunda asked the question, what other kind of piracy is there then after the two dick kinds of piracy that I listed?
	It's hard to answer that question.
	All I can say is the old 80s cassette kind where you have friends over and they're like, dude, this is awesome.
	You got to make me a copy of that.
	That's the kind.
	Yeah, and then make me.
	Then your friend makes a copy for 10 other people and that 10th person makes a copy for 15 other people.
	I can eventually tune in.
	But no, here's the thing.
	There's movies I've gotten that I've been like, oh shit, this was an awesome movie.
	And I'll go out and buy the damn thing.
	I mean, I don't care how many times I could watch it free.
	I mean, I'll want everything to do with it.
	Yeah, but for every one of you, there's 50 others that don't want to pay for it.
	You were never going to convert them, though.
	They were never going to convert to purchasers.
	Here's the key.
	Similar to what the No Agenda show does in getting people to donate to their broadcast.
	And each of those hosts, by the way, are making something on the order of a quarter of a million dollars per year just through donations.
	What art's going to have to do is make it very plainly clear to people listening to this new show that the survival of the show depends on its profitability.
	And whether you're downloading the show from BitTorrent, whether you're downloading the show from BitTorrent or you're getting it from a friend, please subscribe, pay the $5 per month just to support the show.
	As long as that point can be driven home enough during the show, I think things are going to be okay.
	And as far as the dick kind of piracy versus the non-dick kind of piracy and the spirit of Chief Justice Earl Warren, all I can really say is it's hard to define that, but I'll know it when I see it.
	I mean, even if they have, like I said, I plan on paying and donating.
	So I hope he has a subscription as well as a donation for those people that want to do more than just the minimum.
	Because, I mean, I'll pay $5 a month and then occasionally throw him $100 or $200 a month, you know, just for shits and giggles.
	You know how much money I make every month as a result of the existence of our purpose.
	Well, just as a result of the whole thing.
	Wait, would that be dick piracy?
	The whole Art Bell universe.
	I've got no problem clicking on a donate link and making it worth somebody's time to put that link up there.
	Yeah, I really hope they have a donation link because not because I want to subsidize slackers that are too cheap to do it, but I know there are some people that can't afford it, and I can, so I'm happy to give a little bit extra.
	Awesome.
	See, that's what I'm talking about right there.
	It's like you're not intentionally pulling up slack for people that just are like, oh, you know, it's free anyway, so whatever.
	But it's just like you're showing appreciation.
	Finally, you get to show like direct appreciation for all the years and all the stuff that, you know, that's what I'm about.
	It's not going to premiere radio or any suit in a top floor corner office.
	It's going to Art Bell and Keith.
	And I want Art to provide receipts that everything all my donations make so much.
	Well, thanks for letting me call in, guys.
	Sorry I called so many times before trying to get in.
	I didn't know you guys were having problems.
	No, it's okay.
	It's on me.
	Don't worry about it.
	Awesome.
	And Art, can't wait to have you back, man.
	See you guys later.
	See ya.
	Thank you.
	Sorry.
	You guys want to listen to my daughter cry?
	Yeah, can you.
	Oh, God.
	As soon as I said, do you want to listen to my daughter cry?
	And I put the mic up to her, she stopped.
	She was crying profusely until the instant I did that.
	Cry, Jasmine.
	Cry for it.
	No.
	You should have put her on the call.
	Oh, well, I don't know.
	Let me position things here.
	Here, Jasmine.
	Hi, Jasmine.
	Are you a Keith Rowland fan?
	Well, that was riveting radio.
	I'm glad to have done that.
	Oh, now she's upset that I took it away.
	Why would you do that, girl?
	Oh, you want to talk?
	Do you want to talk?
	Okay.
	You have to talk.
	You have to say hi.
	Say hi.
	Hey.
	Hi.
	Jasmine, I must say, you're not being very professional at the moment.
	We've got another caller here.
	Let me grab this.
	Good job.
	P-I-N-Q, P-I-N-Q, P-I-N-G.
	Thank you, Jasmine.
	Bye-bye.
	Bye-bye.
	Bye.
	We've got a caller.
	Who do we have on the line?
	Okay, she got it out of her system.
	She'll leave me alone now.
	Okay, Michael, hold on.
	We got somebody on the line here.
	Hey, guys, this is Fearless from the Forums.
	Hey, Fearless.
	Fearless.
	Hey, Fearless.
	Awesome.
	Hey, you know what?
	Your daughter is actually more literate than Falke.
	I'll just put that out there.
	Man, there's going to be a YouTube on you now.
	So I don't know why you're insulting my offspring like this.
	It's been a great show tonight, guys.
	That was pretty awesome.
	That was kind of good to hear both sides of the story there.
	I mean, it kind of gives you a little bit of insight there to, you know, what the other side goes.
	We normally try to prevent opposing points of view on this show from getting through.
	I don't know how it happened tonight.
	It's because I manned the Skype.
	It's my fault.
	I'm sorry.
	That's all right, Chris.
	There was something I did want to ask Keith about, but I screwed it up, say it.
	That's all right.
	That's all right.
	You know, I actually listen to another podcast that's a paranormal podcast, but something that they do that's kind of interesting is they offer a paid video feed along with their audio.
	So, you know, you can pay your, you know, your $5 a month and get their podcast, or you can pay like $10 a month and you will get their audio and their video feed, you know.
	So that's something to think about, you know.
	I think I mentioned that to Art or something about a video feed, and I don't think Art wants to have video cameras shoved in.
	There'd have to be models or something standing in the background for me to want to pay for that.
	That's just something to think about.
	I mean, you know, it's as the host, though, it's hard to imagine wanting that.
	Yeah, as I'm mowing my grass and listening to a downloaded podcast, it would kind of ruin paying for the video feed.
	Well, but the thing is, is that like this other show does, is they have, you know, they have pictures to go along with their stories most of the time.
	Yeah, that part would be cool.
	Yeah, and you can't see those if you're on the podcast, but you can if you're on the video.
	So, I mean, it's just something to think about.
	Yeah.
	Well, I appreciate it.
	I would pay for it if it was there.
	Well, sir, we reject your idea out of hand.
	Michael, you definitely were not on your A-game tonight.
	I'm very disappointed.
	I have to say, my confidence in myself has been shaken.
	That's all right.
	We'll let it slip this time.
	I'm half the man I thought I was.
	Hey, I changed my icon, too, on Skype, so you can't give me no more shit about the bubbles icon there.
	So what do you say about that?
	Well, no, it wasn't that I was necessarily giving you a shit.
	It's just that everybody thought that the great redirecting that occurred over the weekend was perpetrated by somebody with a trailer park boys avatar.
	And so you call up on Skype with your bubbles avatar, and the timing was just not good, sir.
	Nope, that is actually me on my Skype avatar now.
	So there you go.
	I have to say, the only radio show that I can imagine wanting to see video of is the Phil Hendry show.
	And he does it on YouTube, right?
	Can't you see episodes?
	I think he does, yeah.
	I do that.
	I watch, well, they're actually on the Dark Radio Network.
	I watch that Paranormal Central out of Fresno, California pretty regularly.
	They got a good show.
	Is that the one that has a guy who does professional wrestling?
	Or am I getting it confused with another show?
	No, no, no, no.
	These guys do the whole UFO Bigfoot bit.
	I mean, it's all paranormal stuff, but they offer a video feed free.
	I mean, there's free, of course, but then they also transmit, you know, across dark radio or dark matter network.
	TIG has a good call in the chat room to go along with what you're saying, that he'd pay $5 a month to watch Arts Cats.
	Oh, there you go.
	I mean, you know, it's just something to say.
	But they have to say that.
	It's something to think about.
	Yep, something to think about.
	See, I would pay to see George Dory to actually see if he's actually in the studio at the time.
	I would almost pay to see Falke duct taping his glasses to his forehead.
	Don't say that because it'll happen.
	It's the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life.
	You said almost pay, and that means pay to him.
	Well, my wife heard me laughing last night in my room, my office.
	She's like, what in the heck are you laughing at?
	I'm like, do you see this guy?
	And she goes, no, what's going on?
	She looked at me.
	She goes, you shouldn't be making fun of special people.
	You see, I'm scared.
	I'm scared to let my wife see that because I won't have internet privileges anymore.
	Yeah.
	When I saw the duct-taped glasses, I was actually, before that happened, I was picturing him using clear tape or something like that.
	But to actually use duct tape, it was covering half the glasses anyway.
	Did you read the story that he posted along with it about how he had to dig the giant black hat out of his cheek and that's why his face was bleeding?
	Oh, no, I must have missed that.
	Yeah, there's a whole story out there on the forums about it.
	And I'm like, really?
	I mean, it just gets worse.
	Yeah, that's the thing is, we're so far down the rabbit hole, there's no going back.
	There's no real world.
	When Morpheus offered that pill, we all clearly picked the wrong one.
	Oh, absolutely.
	I agree.
	Morpheuslow.
	Do you think there's any possibility?
	Do you think there's any possibility that there could be some element of performance art to this?
	I can only hope so.
	I'm telling you, man.
	I can't believe that there's people like that just walking around freeing society.
	But, you know, you never know.
	Well, maybe we're the ones who are locked out.
	Yeah, I guess.
	I don't know, man.
	That's a sad thing, actually.
	Guys, look, jump out of here.
	I appreciate you taking my call, and it's been a great show tonight.
	So my daughter just looked at me.
	I said, do not throw the glass.
	And she immediately threw it onto a hard tile floor where it shattered everywhere.
	I have to go.
	Guys, fuck you later.
	Thanks.
	All right.
	That seems like a good point.
	Yeah, I just can't believe that the spec sheet is going to be back on the Dark Matter Radio Network.
	How about that?
	That is what a turn of events.
	So now you're going to back out of the Gabcast again?
	I'm not familiar with that show.
	Well, probably lucky for you.
	Don't worry, this episode will be on YouTube soon, probably.
	Pirated.
	Would that be the dick pirates who do that or the other ones?
	Next week, we have to tape our glasses to our foreheads before we can be on the show.
	Done.
	Okay, guys, to wrap up, what's the big thing we learned tonight after all of this?
	That Kristen could be my father.
	He could be.
	People in my home are shitting their pants.
	That is news.
	Onan?
	We need to play nice in the sandbox.
	But don't be afraid to throw some of that feces around every once in a while just to make it fun.
	Don't be afraid.
	We also learned that the idea of art providing a video companion to a show is something to consider and then subsequently reject.
	I'm Michael Van Devon.
	And this is the end of the show.
	Okay, that's it.
	Let's get out of here.
	I'm through with this shit.
	Everybody, have a good night.
	Bye.
	Bye.
	Thanks, everyone, for calling in.
	Thanks, Keith, for joining us too.
	Thanks, everybody, in the chat room.
	Thanks, and have a good night.
	Until next time, Curtis, good job, man.
	Thank you.
	I feel like I'm a good idea.
	Thanks.
	I'll cry tonight in the fetal position for hours, but I appreciate it.
	Give him a seven.
	Six and a half.

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