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Dec. 12, 2025 - Gray Area - Rex Jones & Tim Tompkins
02:42:24
Gray Area LIVE #28: Tim's Back! - Geopolitical Call In Talk Show

Rex Jones and Tim Tompkins dissect Europe’s energy crisis post-Nord Stream 2 bombing, its $2.34T threat to dump U.S. Treasuries over Ukraine policy, and NATO’s reckless nuclear rhetoric amid Russia’s escalation. They mock Trump’s "Christian genocide" threats against Nigeria and his selective pardoning of Juan Orlando Hernandez—convicted of trafficking 465 tons of cocaine—while targeting minor smugglers. Fuentes’ Hitler praise sparks debate on charisma vs. extremism, with Rex calling out his contradictions on gender equality and Tim linking it to elite manipulation of grievances. Both expose media-driven heuristics—like the availability bias—that falsely inflate global violence, citing declining per capita deaths despite sensationalized headlines. Ultimately, they argue systemic power dynamics, not inherent traits, fuel modern conflicts and ideological polarization. [Automatically generated summary]

Participants
Main
r
rex jones
infowars 01:04:36
t
tim tompkins
01:19:34
Appearances
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nick fuentes
01:28
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Speaker Time Text
rex jones
Welcome back to the gray area.
This is episode 28.
It's December 11th, 2025.
I was very sick, but we still managed to get through some shows last week, or I guess this week too.
tim tompkins
Dude, it's been a minute since we've been in the same room.
rex jones
Yeah, you're back from overseas travel, right?
tim tompkins
Where were you?
I was in Munich, Germany, guys.
Very interesting.
Very interesting over there.
Very hospitality.
I'm jet lagged as yeah.
rex jones
He's been awake for a while.
tim tompkins
72 hours.
I've probably slept a total of five hours over the course of like two or three days.
I didn't even sleep on the flat.
I was up.
So I'm running off of caffeine right now, but we do it for the love of the game.
rex jones
You know, they say when you're awake for like three days or whatever, you start to see like the pink bunny rabbit.
Has that happened yet?
unidentified
No.
rex jones
Has that started popping out?
All right.
Well, we're going to get a good two, two and a half hour show done before Tim starts seeing a pink bunny rabbit and get some sleep and I'll get some sleep too, but I'm much more well rested.
And we got a lot of interesting topics to go through today, a lot of geopolitical news that I've been fascinated with, some things breaking that are really cartoonish.
And I'm kind of glad you're sleep deprived because you're ready to be shocked.
tim tompkins
There's no filter on me right now.
I can tell you that.
rex jones
You're ready to be tantalized by the weirdness in the news that you're not expecting.
tim tompkins
Yeah.
I haven't quite caught up with some of the things.
Been seeing some certain things out there, but you let me know of some new things.
What are you talking about?
rex jones
Yeah, we're going to get into it.
I want to play this clip of Trump saying he wants to invade Nigeria, quote unquote, with guns blazing.
But just a little while, you know, or a long time that you've been gone during the show, did you receive any like American news information while you were over there?
I mean, I assume you're still on Twitter.
tim tompkins
The main things I was just looking at, dude, I'm going to be honest with you guys, I had taken a little hiatus from Twitter.
It's just been too much.
It's just been too toxic.
Imagine every day you're just waking up and you just see the world's just angry.
Not even the world.
I'm sorry.
X is just angry.
rex jones
Yeah.
tim tompkins
But it makes you feel that way.
And it's just like, I know, I don't, you know, I'm kind of like just a bystander watching.
I never really like get into the feelings of what it is.
It's more so I'm just watching a bunch of people yap at each other.
rex jones
Yapathon.
tim tompkins
Yeah.
And it's just like the same thing every day.
It's either I'm seeing something on immigration, something I'm seeing.
No offense to you guys, but I'm just seeing like the white man is dying.
That's that's pretty white extinction stuff.
rex jones
And then it's the black person.
tim tompkins
This is the black person.
Yeah.
Or what other things?
Something crazy that Trump does for the day.
So I just like, you know what?
I'm kind of sick of that.
rex jones
You're tired of the negativity.
tim tompkins
I am tired of the negativity, but it's also your job now.
I'm more so tired of the fake truths, like the half-truths, the heuristics.
Yeah, exactly.
We're gonna get into that, and we're gonna get into that.
But it's basically these cognitive biases that we all have, right?
Where we kind of like read the headline and then we believe the facts, and we're like, oh, this has to be true.
rex jones
Well, that's the number one thing that people do, and that's why it's really just so frustrating to live in the world.
And ultimately, why we don't have a better world is because people do just read the headlines.
And like, that's a saying.
And people will talk about that, but it really is the truth of the world that we live in.
And it feels like our president, like, he's tapped into that limitless perpetual energy machine, right?
tim tompkins
It's getting eyeballs.
rex jones
Like, that's how he kind of runs the White House and also the country.
So I want to get into that.
I want to show this.
I guess I also have to add it to the stage.
You know, very professional of me first to not add it to the stage.
tim tompkins
Did you want to show the pictures first of Germany, or you want to go and if you want to do that first, we absolutely can do that.
That way, it's something a little happy to do that.
rex jones
So, where did you go in Germany?
I'm still going to do this.
tim tompkins
I was in Munich.
I was staying in a nice little place.
I went to like the center of Munich.
So, you know, one thing I've noticed the difference between here and Europe is like they just have a lot of beautiful architecture that we don't have.
rex jones
Yeah, everything here is like a McDonald's, and that's the architecture, basically.
tim tompkins
It's going to be sideways, but vertical video, the cardinal system of turn your phone sideways, guys.
But this is like I'm super high up on the St. Petersburg church.
rex jones
That is beautiful.
tim tompkins
And I could see like the mountains in the background.
And you could just see.
I hate how this is sideways.
rex jones
It's all good.
It's all good.
tim tompkins
But you can see the beautiful landscape and everything.
Go to that other photo too.
rex jones
For sure.
Which one?
The one in the church?
tim tompkins
Yeah, let's look at this photo.
rex jones
Yeah, look how gorgeous that is.
tim tompkins
Like, it's just like, I don't know.
Maybe I haven't seen it.
Maybe because we're a newer country, but it's kind of nice to see.
Like, it's like time stood still.
Like, I know they've had to rebuild things, guys, like because of World War II, but a lot of the stuff they try to preserve the history of specific regions and like all of the architecture that was with that.
rex jones
It is, it is because things are so young in the new world.
Yeah, that's that's what it is 100%.
tim tompkins
So, like, I go and walk in the middle of the courtyard.
I'm like, ooh, Hitler might have been here.
It's like, it's, it's like, that's what you're thinking.
Well, like the courtyard, you just like look at it like, oh, they, the SS was walking here one time.
Like, it's kind of like going through the history.
Uh, just where is this?
rex jones
Is this downtown?
tim tompkins
Scroll out of this one.
rex jones
Okay.
tim tompkins
Just do it.
Uh, just regular for sure.
Yeah.
rex jones
Oh, yeah, it's viewable actually.
unidentified
Yeah.
rex jones
Keep it vertical.
tim tompkins
This is uh Marienplatz.
This is like the main square.
They've got like these Christmas markets going on.
It's just a really nice vibe.
Um, and that building right there is like one of the main like architecture.
I just overall, I just think the whole vibe of it is cool.
But you know, it's weird.
Uh, you talk to like the local people and you just hear like the stories.
Like we complain here, but the people in Germany are actually struggling more than us.
rex jones
Yeah.
tim tompkins
They don't have like I was surprised by how cheap food and everything was there.
I'm like, why the hell is like a bottle of water that would have cost me maybe like three dollars here at a specific place?
rex jones
It would cost that much.
tim tompkins
It was like a dollar.
And I was like in the grocery store just getting some like fruits and trying to trying to like fuel up.
And I got a basket of items and everything came out to 10 euros, which is not the euro is like 1.1 or like 1.
Less than $1.2.
So it's pretty comparable.
But overall, it was like a whole basket of things, guys.
Like I had at least like five or six items and it was 10 euros.
Whereas here, I know it would have cost me like 25 bucks easily.
But the reason why it's so cheap is because Europeans and Germans, they don't have a lot of disposable income like we have here where we like spend all our money on heating their homes.
Yeah.
rex jones
One.
tim tompkins
We pay for, we get a lot of luxuries.
That's, that's what I would say.
rex jones
Well, we have resources.
They don't.
They have to import everything they use for the modern world and the modern life, right?
And this is why precisely the bombing of Nord Stream 2 was such a critical blow to all of Europe's infrastructure, right?
Germany's now paying three times what they were paying for gas and LNG than before because they're not getting cheap oil.
They have to buy it from us directly.
tim tompkins
The energy cost was definitely something that was a topic.
Like the sudden boost of that actually affected manufacturing a lot.
rex jones
How do they feel about Americans and what's going on over in Ukraine?
Did you get into any of that with any of those people?
Did that come up?
I know that's probably a tough conversation.
tim tompkins
Yeah, I mean, I'm in the middle of like a working business at that point.
So it wasn't like something I immediately wanted to bring up.
The main gist of like from the two times that I went there this year, what I understood is like ultimately they're not the cost of living is something that's a very big issue and they're not happy with their politics there specifically.
So they're having the same issues we're having in certain aspects.
But it's just, it made me realize like we take certain things for granted, like they don't have air condition in like most of the places.
And now that's a European European thing.
rex jones
But yeah, I told you.
tim tompkins
But in general, though, like here, even I know California doesn't do it as well, but there's certain places where it can get pretty hot in Europe where you would want air conditioning, but everything's kind of like outdated.
It just feels like sometimes there's certain things you feel like you're going back in time.
rex jones
You know, the invention of the air conditioner, I don't remember a lot of the facts on this, but I know it's a very interesting topic.
I'll definitely look into it again so I can actually have the facts to spout off.
It allowed large areas of the U.S. to be settled that really weren't settled before.
It was like a foundational, we obviously, I mean, you think about it, duh, like air conditioner, right?
tim tompkins
Yeah, you wouldn't want to be in Arizona.
rex jones
Like that would be super important in like Arizona or New Mexico or Nevada or someplace like that here for one.
tim tompkins
Yeah, you definitely need it.
rex jones
No brainer.
But there are these things that we definitely do take for granted.
Is there kind of, did you hear anything about the war in Ukraine at all?
Any no one had?
tim tompkins
No one really talked about it, to be honest.
I didn't really ask the question.
rex jones
I interrogate these people.
tim tompkins
Okay.
You know, the thing is, is like Germans have this thing.
I don't know if people know it's called like the German stare.
Have you ever heard of that?
No.
rex jones
Is that like the light-skinned stare?
tim tompkins
No, no, no.
It's like Germans will literally stare at you.
Like that's like their cultural thing.
You just, I'm like, is it because I'm black?
I'm like, no, it's not.
rex jones
It's just what they do.
Yeah, it's just what they do.
Smile.
That's another thing.
tim tompkins
Yeah.
It's just a lot of cultural differences.
They just see with their eyes and they're looking.
And it's not anything rude.
Like here, you stare at somebody.
It's like, you got a problem with me, buddy?
rex jones
I'm from New York.
tim tompkins
It's like, you got a problem.
You want to talk, buddy?
And it's like, the main thing I did notice, though, and this last one I'll make is how much freaking Western influence America has.
rex jones
It's all a hassle state, dude.
Oh my God.
I've been over there twice.
tim tompkins
I didn't, okay.
I did not realize how integrated American companies are in these places.
I mean, I will say, Thank God, though, there is a certain level of like cooperation between like the United States and Europe.
Like, I think net positive.
rex jones
Well, that's at risk.
No, we'll get into that.
tim tompkins
Well, yeah, but I'm saying, like, I did not have to like download a new app.
I could use Uber the same way I used it here.
rex jones
That is cool.
tim tompkins
I got there and I didn't have any issues with like cell phones.
Like, the towers just transferred over seamlessly.
Whereas like probably 30 years ago, things were a lot more difficult.
I use a credit card.
It works the exact same way.
Like, there's just the intertwining of how their whole system works.
It's like very convenient of like going from America to Europe is not as difficult as I thought it would be.
rex jones
Well, you know, they're kind of angry at us.
And I'm about to throw something up on the screen.
And, you know, we were going to start in a little bit of a different direction, but that's the fun thing about a news blitz show is that you get to go in all different, whichever ways.
And, you know, we're talking about this.
We're talking about, you know, how Americanized Europe is, how really comfortable it was for you were able to be over there, how much you were able to enjoy the seamless experience of feeling like you're in a blended culture, right?
Or like a shared culture.
But the EU is pretty upset because as part of the new, as part of the new United States military doctrine, we've said that we're going to try to extricate ourselves from Ukraine.
And the Europeans have heard this and they're not happy about it.
They're threatening to sell our treasuries.
Have you seen this story?
unidentified
No, I haven't.
rex jones
They're threatening to dump our treasuries.
tim tompkins
So break this down for us.
rex jones
Well, I'll read the news article to start.
Europe was selling U.S. treasuries over Ukraine peace fears.
This is a huge story.
This is a real story.
I've seen von der Leyen talk about it.
Talks in some European circles explore dumping up to 2.34 trillion in U.S. treasuries, a move called the nuclear option because they don't have too many nukes that could jolt American bond yields and markets.
Leaders worry about Trump's rapid peace plan with Russia that would sideline Europe and mishandle $210 billion in frozen Russian assets, which they want to seize.
Now, we'll pause right there.
I know I've said this a lot on the show.
People have heard me say it before.
The EU is currently trying to issue the Ukrainians a $170 billion loan.
They don't have the finances to do so, but what they're trying to say is we don't need to put it on our books and we'll just take the Russian money and then leave the loan.
tim tompkins
And they're also trying to use the Russian money to rebuild Ukraine as well.
That's like part of the nuances to the deal that they were trying to do.
They are trying to use something with the Russian assets in order to like offset the cost.
rex jones
It's massively illegal to touch those.
And this is why the world's moving away from us.
This is why BRICS is a thing because nations realize if they're in the Western financial system, then their own holdings can be used as a weapon against them.
tim tompkins
100%.
unidentified
Right.
rex jones
So this is a part of the division of the world.
And that's very key that we touch on that.
After Zelensky's December 8th meeting with UK, French, and German counterparts in London, skeptics note that much of the holdings aren't directly government controlled and the sale could boomerang with liquidity woes for European banks, plus U.S. retaliation.
I almost read that as retardation.
Like tariffs or less NATO support.
Bond markets stay calm so far amid these transatlantic tensions.
This is a big deal.
And, you know, I've seen some people talking about this on X. I've seen some people talking about it on their shows.
I think I saw Dudisson's talk about it.
This is a real problem.
And I just want to throw this up here.
This is what I've seen a lot of, and this is probably bot propaganda, but it's also probably someone that's nationalistic or patriotic, or they think that they are and they live in Europe.
Could be one of the two.
Next time you brag about saving Europe twice, remember, first time you showed up in 1917 after selling weapons to both sides for three years and only joined when Germany sank your loan repayments.
Second time you waited until Pearl Harbor and Hitler declared war on you.
Meanwhile, the Red Army was already steamrolling the Wehrmacht from the east with bodies you never had to spend.
Yeah, the Russians basically won the war in Europe.
We were mostly in the Pacific.
Europe was the one bleeding out while you turned genocide and total war into your greatest economic boon.
You didn't save us.
You just finally picked the winning side when it became profitable and geographically unavoidable.
A little ungrateful, perhaps, just slightly ungrateful.
tim tompkins
Yeah, it's a generalization.
Yeah, here's the thing: without the without the without the United States, it's unequivocally that Europe would not have won the war the way that it happened.
They used, even if we didn't throw them manpower, we actually by the time they disassociated with the whole Hitler thing earlier on, the United States was providing so much in resources and weapon and weapons that Europe literally needed at that time.
rex jones
Right.
tim tompkins
And then if you think about like in World War II, like the orchestration of D-Day and those types of things, like those were monumental movements, as well as don't even forget about the psychological impact of bringing in another world power onto the stage.
rex jones
Very, very, very true.
Very true indeed.
I'm going to try to pull something up here in relation to this, but do you think that this is what the European people want?
tim tompkins
Like as far as do you think that they want to go to war or that they'd be content with going to war?
No, you already saw what when France flirted with the idea in some of these other EU countries, flirted with the idea of sending soldiers over to Ukraine and people went to the streets with like and rioted.
rex jones
Well, apparently a British soldier died over there.
They're saying it was in a defense exercise, but that's probably not true.
tim tompkins
And the French not enough to move the needle, though.
rex jones
Like two years ago, I knew someone that was doing security and they had a brother that was literally in the French Foreign Legion over there in Ukraine.
tim tompkins
Well, there was a lot of people.
Yeah, well, there's a lot of people that went over there also on their own dime that just wanted to support.
Remember at the beginning of the war, there was this large influx of people who were supporting the war and they wanted to send like ex-military people went over there and just like regular Joe Schmoz would just like get up in arms and they were recruiting them.
Now, I'm sure that's toned down quite a bit, but there was a big movement of that happening during that time period.
rex jones
Well, in Ukraine, the way they recruit you is they punch you in the kidney and they throw you in the uh throw you in the van.
tim tompkins
Yeah, and you don't even know what hit you.
You're just like on the front line with the gun.
rex jones
But hey, that's one less FPV drone.
So that's that's actually super important, right?
And it makes sense.
You know, you throw the person in the van, you get to fight the war another day.
So at least they're at the point where they're like, yeah, we are totalitarian.
We are like, we're going to survive whatever that means at all costs.
Where is this video?
Okay, here we go.
Here we go.
I wanted to play this for you, Tim.
I saw it.
unidentified
I know.
rex jones
I know it's not playing yet.
Check this out.
Meanwhile, in Denmark, like it or not, this will be the consequence of the USA turning its back on Europe and other allies.
Let's check this out.
And I got another thing for NATO Secretary Mark Root.
You've said today.
unidentified
Yes, it's very obvious that USA is no longer going to risk their lives in Europe like they were in the old days, Russia's nuclear threats against Europe have already played a great role in Ukraine.
It's been a great role in Ukraine, it's been a great role in Ukraine.
rex jones
Whoa!
Who attacked who's nuclear bombers?
Who attacked who's nuclear bomber jets?
I believe it was the Ukrainians, and they had the 18 Wheelers roll in with the guy with the lot lizard.
tim tompkins
Yeah, the doors opened up from those crates.
And that was crazy.
And that was in the middle of peace talks.
unidentified
Right.
rex jones
So the Russians, they're the ones making all the nuclear threats.
We literally committed like a nuclear act of like escalating the war up into the realm of a non-conventional.
They have made many European countries hold back aid to Ukraine.
Trump has begged for money.
He's like, I will sell you things.
You just have to pay.
Does holding back mean that we're not letting our cabinets being used to defend that country?
tim tompkins
I will say, I'm sure behind closed doors, when uh Trump was not happy with Zelensky, right?
There was a good like five-month period where he was not happy with him.
rex jones
He's not happy with him now, he's back to being angry at him.
tim tompkins
Yeah, it's it's it's a game of tennis at that point, it's just back and forth.
But when he was unhappy the first time, guarantee you, they had conversations or like you better stop giving the money.
It's not like that's the that's the that's the strategy, it's stone.
rex jones
I've bought you three Rosario's, you have to stop.
You have to stop.
tim tompkins
That's how it works, man.
rex jones
They've made many European countries hold back agents.
unidentified
They've been afraid of escalation, afraid of the nuclear threats.
rex jones
Yeah, it's nukes.
You're supposed to be afraid of them.
Like, this is really, really, I want to live ultimately.
Don't you want to want everyone to live?
tim tompkins
Yeah, I mean, it's the thing.
Even if they nuked Europe, do you understand?
Fallout would actually reach us.
rex jones
Yeah, ruin the world.
It would ruin the whole world.
These weapons are horrible.
tim tompkins
It's not even, it's like not even.
I'm laughing, but it's not a laughing matter.
Here's the thing.
rex jones
They're serious.
tim tompkins
It's a mutual destruction.
But all right.
I'm so tired, though, of the whole nuclear thing being used as like the big, you know, swing your dick and put it on the table type of thing and just puffing up your chest because it's a bluffing game.
Do you know how many times Russia over the last like four years was threatening nuclear conflict?
They said, all right, if you do this, we can go and bomb.
rex jones
The people before the boomers were not.
Oh, actually, yes, the boomers, they went through an entire generation of constant nuclear threat.
tim tompkins
Well, and that's what I'm saying.
Even when you got to the situation during the Cold War, DEF CON 1 is like the maximum where you're actually nuclear ready and ready to press the button.
We've never in history gotten to DEF CON 1.
Even when you had the Cuban missile crisis, the highest we went up to was DEF CON 2.
And that was like up to that point.
And you saw the Russians turn away.
Here's the thing.
Everybody is smart enough at the end of the day to know that they don't want to die.
They don't want mom and dad to die back at home.
Some people are going to be like, well, Israel and Samson option.
Okay, whatever.
rex jones
I would argue these people are far more dangerous than the Israelis.
Here's the thing.
I would argue the Israelis are much smarter, right?
I would say the class of leader that you have in Europe for how phenomenal these countries are, not in terms of natural resources or something like that, but in terms of like global connections and global positions in the financial system, the way that they've been able to screw things up, especially over the past decade or so, but really over the past four years since the Ukraine conflict started, these are really, really dangerous people.
And when I see them, I get the most scared because they have the most to lose.
They ran the world for like 500 years.
tim tompkins
But they wouldn't be the one to just press a button and launch a nuke.
I'm saying that because you have too many European countries that are involved in a decision like that.
It's not just like Germany.
rex jones
No, It's an unelected commission in Brussels.
And most of the people, most of the people on that commission are like either descendants of royalty or ex like heads of state or like high position holders.
Ursula Vanderland used to be the German defense minister.
tim tompkins
Okay.
rex jones
Now she's the unelected head of the EU.
tim tompkins
Let's play a thought experiment here.
Let's say Russia plants troops in Germany.
Nuclear war or no?
rex jones
Well, it can't do that.
tim tompkins
I know.
I'm just saying hypothetical.
rex jones
Thought experiment.
tim tompkins
Thought experiment.
rex jones
If they have them, if their territorial integrity was threatened and they had nukes, yes.
tim tompkins
You think they would use them?
unidentified
Yeah.
rex jones
I do.
tim tompkins
I think out of all the options you could go to before going to nuclear, that's the first thing that people would go to.
rex jones
Yes.
See, that's why we haven't had any major conflicts.
I think that's precisely because of that, because of the situation that you're proposing.
That's why we haven't had any of those big old troop movements and wars like we haven't, like we used to have.
tim tompkins
That's why okay, let's let's take two nuclear powers that have been conflicting recently.
Okay, India-Pakistan, it has escalated, they've had direct attacks on each other's soil, right?
Never went to the extent that they were going to press the news.
rex jones
No one's more insane than the West.
You're talking about these countries, Pakistan's pretty wild.
You're talking about these countries that have futures.
I would ultimately have no future.
tim tompkins
I would say Pakistan is more crazy than hold on.
unidentified
Look at this.
rex jones
Look at this woman.
You trust her?
You want her?
unidentified
You want her to be in the same room with someone that's talking about getting nukes?
tim tompkins
I'm just saying.
I would say, if you think Pakistan is not as crazy, is not more crazy than Germany.
rex jones
I think we're at a constant risk of nuclear war, and I think it's never been higher.
And all the military experts agree with me on this.
And I like that you're optimists.
You're white-pilled, and I'm black-pilled, and it's an interesting dichotomy that we have.
tim tompkins
I don't see it happening.
rex jones
Well, let's watch more of the clip.
The only credible response against that is to have your own nuclear weapons.
unidentified
See, this is what they're saying.
Now that American weapons can no longer back us up, we need other weapons that can.
rex jones
I don't think the Americans will become our opponent's enemy.
They're just not willing to risk very much for us any longer.
unidentified
They are not willing to play with us.
It's USA first.
It's USA first.
rex jones
That's their program.
Yeah, it's America first.
unidentified
And so they're not going to play with the atom.
They're not going to play with the atom.
They're not going to play with the atom.
And that's what we're going to take.
rex jones
Yeah, I'm going to pause it.
It's over.
tim tompkins
Why would we risk nuclear war attacking one of our cities?
And just entitled.
rex jones
They're entitled.
This is ultimately the problem.
They are going to continue.
And I'm going to play this clip of NATO Secretary Mark Root talking about this, getting ready for war and getting ready to become warlike again.
That's what he says.
They want to be essentially, it's like we're the younger brother, but we're much bigger than them.
Let's just call them.
All right.
We're the older brother in this analogy, and they're the younger brother, and they're on the playground, and they're kicking sand in someone's face and like slapping them, right?
And that other person, they're antagonizing.
The other person is going to hit them, but they know that if we come in and back them up, they can do whatever they want.
tim tompkins
Yeah, there's scenarios like that, but it's not like we aren't complicit in certain things.
It goes both ways.
rex jones
We do the same thing for me.
I agree, but we were doing it, I think, ultimately from a grift perspective of like ultimately our politicians, what do they care about?
They care about the defense contracts and they care about those defense contracts going on into the future.
That's the main concern.
We're not necessarily, we may do it accidentally or on purpose if it serves our purposes.
We're not really like, it's not an ideological jihad besides America, use the dollar.
Like, that's our religion, right?
But we, the Europeans, they have been, since the time of Napoleon, they've been trying to get into Russia and break it up because they want the resources.
And now they're seeing an opportunity somehow in their minds with Ukraine in order to force that clash of civilizations.
This is how I see it.
tim tompkins
Yeah.
So there are scenarios where, yes, I think the U.S., I mean, I think Europe has definitely taken the United States for granted.
And there's definitely been scenarios like they were not paying enough into their defense spending because they knew that like we were going to be there to back them at the end of the day.
And so they had no incentive to really pour as much money into the military as the United States.
I agree with that.
But then there's the counterside of it where I see like scenarios where like we use Europe as like the playground to be able to go and execute different things across that whole region of the world.
And we use, we send the little brother out to go do things on our MI6, for example.
You'll see a lot of CIA partnering with MI6 because MI6 has strategic areas in which they operate in which we don't want to send our own people.
So we let MI6 and we just do a cooperation where we send people in.
And in Middle East, we'll send Europeans out there on our behalf so that we don't have to commit American assets because we can ask them to do so.
rex jones
Right.
I would just argue there's a net negative from what I've seen.
They're not offering us anything but a place to put our bases and their military and intelligence resources like you're talking about.
Economically, besides holding our debt, like we showed, they threatened to dump, they don't have any resources.
And that's why through colonial means, it's why they've been so invested in Africa and the Middle East.
tim tompkins
I would agree with you on the they the reason why Europe is no longer where they're at anymore is because they're no longer able to participate in that colonialistic style anymore.
They're no longer extract resources like they used to.
Great Britain is not robbing India like they used to to be able to drop themselves up.
rex jones
You made an interesting point and you said, okay, so first hypothetical, second hypothetical, India, Pakistan, they didn't go to using nuclear weapons first.
They fought conventionally and then they de-escalated the conflict.
I would argue 75% of all wars ever fought on the planet were fought in Europe.
Like these are the most violent people.
You look it up.
It's true.
That's true.
Yes, that's the number.
That's 100% true.
75% of all wars ever fought have been fought in Europe.
tim tompkins
Well, why do you think that is?
rex jones
Nice place to be.
A lot of different areas with local ethnic groups that clash with each other over the years.
tim tompkins
There's so many things here.
That's why it wouldn't happen here because we're isolated.
rex jones
I agree, but what I'm saying is these people are going to take us to war, man, or they're going to just going to go to war by themselves.
And I hope Trump just cuts them loose.
If he does that, my rating of him will go from being an F minus to maybe being a demon.
tim tompkins
What is your idea of cutting loose, though?
Are you saying all of us?
rex jones
Leave NATO.
tim tompkins
I don't know about that one.
rex jones
I would leave NATO.
I would make business deals with Russia and I would embrace the new world, the world that's rising instead of the world that's falling and trying to screw us over in the process.
These people, what they've done, what they did in Ukraine by having Boris Johnson fly out there as an emissary of NATO and the EU, by the way, and tell Zelensky that America, like, did you vote for Boris Johnson?
tim tompkins
He wasn't very popular.
rex jones
Well, did you put him in office?
tim tompkins
No.
rex jones
No, this is a European or a Euro poor, you know, as I like to call him.
I'm sure Tim is far nice.
But these Europoors want to tell people in the West, people in an area that still has, even though it's declining, an area that still is an empire, they want to tell us to commit group suicide with them and drink the Kool-Aid of fighting Russia forever.
I don't buy into it.
I don't buy into that.
If we leave or if we do something, Russia is going to just sweep in and take the entirety of Europe.
Putin doesn't want that.
The nation of Russia, the country of Russia, is bigger than any other.
tim tompkins
I agree with you on that.
And that is, okay, this is my argument.
You and I can agree.
Like now you now you wrapped it up in a bow at the end because I'm like, I'm trying to follow with you.
I'm like, okay.
But the very end of what you said is, yes, Russia does not want to invade Europe.
There's no incentive.
rex jones
It doesn't make sense.
tim tompkins
It doesn't make any sense.
rex jones
They already have all the resources.
tim tompkins
They're already having a tough time with Ukraine as it is.
Why would they want to fight the whole Europe?
rex jones
And what does Sun Tzu say?
Never interrupt your enemy while he's making a mistake, right?
They're just going to continue to basically do nothing and let the Europeans bleed out on them.
Keep in mind, this entire war was started from the perspective of depleting Russia's military, depleting their munitions.
That's why we're doing it.
That's the whole narrative.
tim tompkins
They wanted the proxy.
It was a proxy.
rex jones
No, no, no, no, but yeah, but it was we're going to keep them from having weapons.
They literally, that was the mission from Biden to Trump.
And Trump has said this, and Biden has said this.
We're depleting their military by doing this.
It's a good deal.
All the while our weapons are wildly more expensive.
We don't have as many of them.
And this is a fact that I repeat day after day after day on this show.
They make in two months what the entirety of NATO, including the United States, makes in a year.
tim tompkins
Who's they?
rex jones
Russia.
You don't with factoids like that, you don't win ultimately.
tim tompkins
Yeah, it's a game of attrition for Russia.
They know that they just have to hold out.
rex jones
And that's what they've done forever.
But this is the NATO secretary.
This is Mark Root.
And it's a very short clip.
He makes it clear.
unidentified
Conflict is at our door.
Russia has brought war back into Europe.
And we must be prepared for the skill of war.
Our grandparents and great-grandparents and Georgia.
rex jones
Isn't that nice?
unidentified
Imagine it.
A conflict reaching every home.
rex jones
See, like this, he talks about it like it's something that he wants to stop or prevent, but this is what they want.
Like they have escalated this to this point.
Yeah, they did this in my view.
And like, I don't know.
tim tompkins
Why do you?
I would say not them.
We did that with the whole time.
rex jones
Yes, yes.
tim tompkins
The whole reason why Russia even did all of that was because we decided to come up to their doorstep and try to get Ukraine into NATO.
rex jones
That's true.
tim tompkins
That was our call.
rex jones
That was us.
tim tompkins
That was us pushing that.
Europe wasn't, Europe would have just followed whatever we decided to do at the end of the day.
We are the leaders when it comes to a lot of these things.
And then here's the hard part.
rex jones
Yeah.
tim tompkins
We always do this.
This is like a typical thing that I see.
We always make a move, make somebody go do something, and then we take a step back and then allow that person to absorb the blame in some situations.
I see that happen a lot.
Okay.
I'm not saying that.
rex jones
It's like the Eric Andre meme where he's got the gun, he's shooting the guy, and he's like, who did this?
Like, how could this happen?
100%.
I was thinking about, that's so funny.
I was thinking about that.
tim tompkins
And here's an example of that.
I'm not sitting here trying to defend Pakistan, but the reason why, why, why do you think the United States is so buddy-buddy with Pakistan?
But then we also are buddy-buddy with India at the same time.
rex jones
We got all our bases there.
Exactly.
tim tompkins
We have a bunch of military bases there.
We have Pakistan go and do certain things.
And then they get in trouble.
And then we're like, well, that wasn't us, but we kind of have to say that Pakistan's innocent and that they're not doing things.
It's just like there are certain things that we push these countries to do that allow things to look worse than they actually are.
rex jones
I agree.
And you know, the interesting thing about it is it used to, this has been done for a while, and you could argue it's only really had negative results.
But, you know, we do have our military bases everywhere.
We do have soldiers everywhere.
We do have weapons and intelligence everywhere.
So you can make the argument that it has worked.
The interesting thing that I think about is how we used to have some skill and finesse doing it.
And now it's become like criminally retarded.
Like all our moves and the big threats and proclamations that we make.
I'm going to play a video right now of Trump talking about invading Nigeria.
tim tompkins
Okay, it's out in the open.
rex jones
So let's keep this in mind because a lot of people are ignorant.
Nigeria is a country of 240 million people.
Okay.
So whenever I talk about the Iran conflict possibly escalating the ground troops on the show, I would say they're a country of nearly like 90 or 91 million people.
Like there's no way that a population like that will ever surrender or submit to an opposing army.
The opposing army just wouldn't be big enough, right?
tim tompkins
Right.
rex jones
Unless you went to like full like world war scenario, right?
Nigeria is a country almost three times as big.
Right.
And then we're talking about going over there.
The argument that's being made for it is the pro-Israel argument of like, why are you talking about Gaza?
There's a Christian genocide in Nigeria.
So we have to go in there now.
And that's the argument that Trump makes.
But I find it interesting that I'm sure there's oil wrapped up in it and gold and diamonds and resources.
But like, this is one of the first things that I've seen that's purely being done to like appease the base and like build off a narrative.
This is like a prompt war.
tim tompkins
Let me see.
rex jones
That's what I would call it.
Yeah.
This is crazy.
We've saved this for Tim.
And you're going to have a ball with this, man.
This is some really fun stuff in a very sick way.
So I think you're going to enjoy this.
unidentified
We're going to do things to Nigeria that Nigeria is not going to be happy.
rex jones
This is not AI, by the way.
tim tompkins
This is real.
This says November 5th.
So this happened, right?
rex jones
I believe so.
I saw this on Dew Dissonance.
tim tompkins
November 5th.
rex jones
I guess this is old.
I don't know.
tim tompkins
Still, I'm curious.
rex jones
Yeah, I watched this on the Dew Dissonance show.
This has to be real.
It's got to be real.
tim tompkins
I'll still watch it.
I mean, people are still.
rex jones
November 6th.
Reuters.
Yep.
I wouldn't bring bad info on the show.
You crazy.
Have you lost your mind?
I'm always right.
tim tompkins
No, I just looked at this.
rex jones
Yeah, no, no, no.
You're right.
And see, I guess it goes to the point of like, shit like this just flies under the fucking radar.
tim tompkins
Dude, I'm telling you.
I wish I could have a conversation with Elon.
There is no, there's no such thing as fact-checking anymore.
There's no community notes.
I try to submit it.
rex jones
Yeah, I don't see the community notes.
tim tompkins
There's no more community notes.
Keep going.
unidentified
All right.
The Nigerian government continues to allow the killing of Christians.
The USA will immediately stop all aid and assistance to Nigeria.
We're going to do things to Nigeria that Nigeria is not going to be happy about.
rex jones
What a statement about a country of 240 million people.
It's not even, we're going in there to get the terrorists.
Well, we don't like Reagan or Bush.
unidentified
Well, we know that.
rex jones
We're going to do nasty things to them.
We're going to fuck them up.
tim tompkins
Well, we don't have to go in there, right?
rex jones
They're very dependent.
Why would we?
tim tompkins
Because we've got assets.
We have the ability to siphon them out and they use our systems and they try to.
rex jones
But this is a grift war, not just on the monetary front.
Like you're talking about, like this is to distract from it.
Like this is to be like, oh, I'm taking action on the real genocide UCIM peace president.
unidentified
And may very well go into that now disgraced country.
Guns are blazing to completely wipe out the Islamic terrorists who are committing these horrible, horrible atrocities.
I'm hereby instructing our Department of War to prepare for possible action.
If we attack, it will be fast, vicious, and sweet.
Just like.
rex jones
Fast, vicious, and sweet.
unidentified
How do you feel about that?
tim tompkins
I know what he's doing.
He's just trying to scare people.
unidentified
That's all he does.
rex jones
He blusters about.
tim tompkins
Here's the thing.
If you get to the point where he's going to go all the way up to the point like he does with Venezuela, where he's like, all right, you think I'm bluffing, but now I'm going to shut your airspace down and you might find out a month from now.
rex jones
I don't think we're bluffing down.
tim tompkins
Now we're not.
rex jones
Yeah.
tim tompkins
But I'm just saying that's because.
rex jones
We'll get into that too.
tim tompkins
But that's because at that point, there's something that's super valuable.
This is just him trying to like, there's no real interest in Nigeria, to be honest.
I mean, they've got their own economic system.
We're now already in the Democratic Republic of the National Park.
rex jones
They would fuck us up.
They would fuck us up.
tim tompkins
They think so.
rex jones
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, unless the government's in on it.
When, of course, like, oh, it's a targeted military strike.
And like, keep in mind, right now we have special forces people in Somalia.
We have them in Sudan.
I'm sure we already have them in Nigeria.
I've heard, you know, like private contractors and people talk about this.
So like this is this is already going on that we have some sort of presence in these nations.
But I mean, if you're talking about like a Venezuela style thing, if you think Venezuela is bad, Venezuela only has 30 million people, they have 240 million people.
tim tompkins
Now, what they would do in this circumstance and not to carry on on this.
rex jones
No, you're fine.
tim tompkins
It would just be like airstrikes.
They don't have an air defense system that could handle it.
They're not going to really send troops in to do something like that.
It would be like airstrikes, take some stuff out, throw sanctions on them, try to cripple their economy.
That's the typical playbook before we actually go and try to commit.
We would never invade Nigeria.
I don't see that ever being a scenario.
rex jones
Never say never.
tim tompkins
This is already.
You see how quick the news cycle changes, though?
This was a month ago.
rex jones
Yeah, we missed it.
tim tompkins
And I didn't even, I didn't even know this happened, guys.
There was so much stuff that happened in between this.
Did you remember this happening?
I don't.
rex jones
No, and that's what I call the shit screen.
But this did happen today or yesterday.
This is the biggest news of the past few days, geopolitical news.
This is from Pam Bondi.
tim tompkins
I'm liking her less and less these days.
unidentified
Yeah.
rex jones
I look, it's funny because I was trying to find this story and I typed in oil tanker and then she was the first profile that came up.
So she's my little oil tanker from now on.
Today, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Homeland Security Investigations, the United States Coast Guard with support from the Department of War, executed a seizure warrant for a crude oil tanker used to transport sanctioned oil from Venezuela to Iran.
For multiple years, the oil tanker has been sanctioned by the United States due to its involvement in illicit oil shipping network of supporting foreign terrorist organizations.
This seizure completed off the coast of Venezuela.
It was conducted safely and securely.
And our investigation alongside the Department of Homeland Security to prevent the transport of sanctioned oil continues.
Okay, if they can seize a massive giant oil ship, why can't they seize a little like motorboat with three outboard motors?
Why do we have to drone strike that?
Well, we can take a giant boat just fine.
tim tompkins
Well, because one has valuable assets that we can use and the other doesn't, Rex.
rex jones
Yeah, well, I would argue we could use the drugs too.
Always, this is the why we couldn't work for the government.
You see, you have to.
tim tompkins
Well, also, that's an economic, you could easily economic interest.
Yeah, well, no, you could pollute the oil in the water, and that's not a good thing.
It's bad for the duckies.
rex jones
You know, that's actually a good point.
That's very high IQ of you.
I didn't think about that, but can't have oil in the water.
They use the environmental pollution as a reasoning.
Get a bunch of dogmas that they do.
Yeah.
Okay.
And we've got this other story here.
This is interesting.
Trump pledges cartel crackdown after pardoning ex-Honduran leader.
Last updated yesterday.
President Trump promised tough measures against drug cartels, including U.S. strikes on five smuggling boats off Venezuela since September, claiming each prevented 25,000 deaths.
unidentified
I saved 25,000 people every time I killed people on a boat.
rex jones
I did it for a reason, folks.
On December 1st, 2025, he pardoned former Honduran president Juan Orlando Hernandez, convicted in 2024 of aiding cartel ship or of aiding cartels to ship 465 tons of cocaine to America and was sentenced to 45 years.
Why did he get pardoned?
unidentified
Same reason why we fly terrorists into the New York City.
rex jones
This is a fucking joke.
Okay.
Like the country, and we'll go back to this, but I want to go full screen.
The country is not real.
Like all of the law and the blind lady with the scales and the justice.
It's complete bull.
tim tompkins
There's GTA, man.
rex jones
So you can sell 465 tons of cocaine.
You can illegally import it to the U.S.
And then the president will pardon you.
But then we see someone on a motorboat.
We just instantly kill them.
It's just there in a world of hypocrisy.
The reason why hypocrisy sucks so much is because it makes things invalid, right?
It's like everything that's going on in America, it's just like it's a fiction book.
Like it's up, it's choose your own adventure, and the president is writing it.
Instead of following a structure or even laws in the universe, we do like the worst things possible and then we like make sure the best things possible don't happen.
tim tompkins
Dude, Rex, comes down to one equation.
Are you doing things that put America's interest first?
rex jones
Yes.
tim tompkins
Or no.
rex jones
Yes, yes, yes.
Yes.
tim tompkins
That's all simple.
rex jones
It'll give us the money.
unidentified
That's all.
tim tompkins
That's a simple equation.
You do things Trump likes to hear.
You get pardons.
You get money.
You get a lot of things.
At the end of the day, that's how this game is played.
You do bad things.
Then Trump decides that I'm going to throw tariffs on you.
I'm going to go do this on you.
I'm going to do that on you.
unidentified
Look, if you look at it now, this is crazy.
rex jones
Like just examining the story again.
So we'll put someone in jail for 50 years for having like an ounce or two of something really nasty, like fentanyl or whatever.
tim tompkins
War on drugs, baby.
rex jones
We'll put them in jail for life for fentanyl.
If someone has like an ounce of Coke, they'll get like 10 years in jail or something crazy.
They'll call him a dealer.
They'll say, like, we're throwing the book at you, blah, You have a traffic ticket.
Now we're going to get you for this.
And this guy can traffic 465 tons of cocaine.
And he can just get pardoned by Trump for some political interest.
And notice Honduras is more of a legitimate government than us.
Honduras issued an arrest warrant right after the pardon.
So I'm sure the criminal will now stay here instead of going back home.
tim tompkins
So we're going to protect him.
rex jones
It's double hypocrisy, both on the immigration front and on the drug front, right?
Because now there's a foreign national and Trump's made it very clear he doesn't like those, right?
But he's in America.
And not only is he a foreign national, he's someone that trafficked 465 tons of cocaine.
That's not even a real, that's a highway.
Look, you make highways with those numbers.
tim tompkins
Terrorists walked so these cocaine dealers could run, man.
Right.
That is the playbook at the end of the day.
rex jones
That's next level.
tim tompkins
That is next level.
rex jones
That's really crazy.
This is like, it's not my favorite story because obviously it's very depressing, but this is one of the weirdest things I've seen in media in a long time.
And shout out to due dissidents guys because that's who I got it from.
Same as the Trump Nigeria clip.
I just hadn't heard about that.
When I heard about that, I was like, what?
Are you serious?
But yeah, that's the world we live in.
And, you know, there's something to be said about when you're on the Titanic and it's like this and you're going into the water.
There's something to be said of the nobility or just the elegance of the people that were playing the violin and the trumpet and the instruments while it was going down, right?
We've all seen that, of course.
So check out Maduro.
Like whatever happens in Venezuela, whatever, like I believe it's more real threat.
Tim believes it's more posturing.
This guy's going to die.
Something when there are people like this.
tim tompkins
But you can't kill a guy who's dancing and has his own podcast.
rex jones
Right.
I mean, this is too cool.
We'll get into that.
That's so crazy.
But like when you're, when you're a dictator type or like the U.S. declared dictator type, this guy just looks a little too much like Saddam Hussein to stay alive, I think.
Right?
Like the CIA sees him like I see the resemblance.
My first love.
I loved you and I killed you and now you're back again.
I get to kill you again.
unidentified
He's reincarnated.
rex jones
And this is Maduro Live.
unidentified
He has his own TV show.
This is the world's not real.
rex jones
It's a cartoon.
Peace forever.
Dancing to peace forever.
As 20% of the United States military is parked off his coast, as Trump has refused the peace deals that Maduro's offered.
And as Trump said, you need to leave.
You need to let Machado in to rule the country or you will die.
And he's like, hey, man, just let me dance.
And if you let me dance, like, I'm not going to do anything and I can make a deal with you.
And Trump's like, no, Like, you die now.
tim tompkins
You think this shit works, man?
rex jones
He does.
He's a true believer.
He's a true believer.
tim tompkins
At least he went down and at least he went down in style, man.
rex jones
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
But it's very sad because you look at people like this and like he's not, I would never compare him to Gaddafi because Gaddafi was actually cool.
And I think he was based in a good leader for his people.
And I've heard from Venezuelans that they don't like Maduro, but like this guy's going to end up with a bayonet in his butt.
Like he'll die in the most gruesome way possible.
tim tompkins
Bro, you know, you know, society's cooked by social media when you literally have the president of a country doing this shit.
unidentified
Yeah.
rex jones
Failing to live stream.
tim tompkins
It's kind of crazy.
I just, you know, some days I miss the days of like diplomacy and just like just presidents being presidents.
Not like this, not this, this crap where I'm literally watching people dance live.
And I'm seeing, dude, I was telling you this earlier.
Have you been seeing the videos of like Homeland Security and like all the memes and stuff that they're making?
i'm blown away i'm like they're they're playing sabrina carpenter and just like you got mad about that And then they took down the one that had, what's the comedian's name?
rex jones
Theo Vaughn.
tim tompkins
Theo Vaughn.
Yeah, he was pissed, man.
unidentified
He's like, well, heard you got deported, man.
tim tompkins
And then they have like the whole TikTok thing.
rex jones
Dude, that's like the best thing that can happen for both those people because then they can sue the government if they want to.
tim tompkins
You know, maybe it's good for optics.
He's appealing to the base.
rex jones
Well, I'm looking for this.
Were you offended by it or were you just disgusted by it?
tim tompkins
I wasn't offended.
It wasn't anything that like moved me to be like upset.
I just thought it was just not very like, I would expect that from a meme account, not literally from the official government page.
Like the boomers are running, not boomer, sorry.
It's like a Gen Z is running the social media account.
rex jones
It's millennials trying to be cool.
That's what I see.
It's millennial humor.
It's a lot of millennial humor.
Have you seen the Franklin the Turtle stuff?
That's what I'm trying to pull out now.
tim tompkins
No.
It's just one big meme.
The whole country.
Do you see like China or Russia or like some of these other countries doing this stuff?
Like, what is this?
rex jones
All right, check this out.
This is a good addition to what you're talking about.
Franklin the Turtle publisher condemns Defense Secretary Pete Hegsteth's post featuring the character.
Franklin has inspired generations of children in Stanford.
Franklin targets inclusivity.
We strongly condemn any denigrating, violent, or unauthorized use of Franklin's name or image.
tim tompkins
Are we serious?
Defense Secretary?
rex jones
No.
unidentified
That's real, bro.
rex jones
Pete Hegseth sent that.
tim tompkins
I grew up on this man.
I need to watch him.
rex jones
I'm familiar with Franklin Turtle as well.
tim tompkins
Franklin did not do this.
I can assure you guys, Franklin was not like this for your Christmas wish list.
See, this is what I'm saying.
Like, how is anybody supposed to take us serious?
rex jones
Right.
And that's the problem.
These are our politicians doing it.
It's beyond that.
It would be like there's one example where we are still serious, but like we're joking around and being crazy for some reason.
This is a symptom of the disease, right?
This isn't the disease itself.
This is a symptom.
These people should not be in these positions.
tim tompkins
Yeah, he just picked his besties.
unidentified
Right.
tim tompkins
And he didn't pick people that were actually qualified for some of these positions.
rex jones
Well, I just, I find it very interesting.
And I'm not trying to step on your point, but the guy posting this, Pete Hegseth, now the Secretary of War, Fox News guy, combat veteran, right?
And he ends up being picked for the Department of Defense, turns into Department of War, and he's posting stuff like this.
And he's presiding over what I believe, in my opinion, and I'll get flagged for this.
I believe that they're heinous war crimes, right?
Meanwhile, you have Judge Napolitano, his colleague who also worked at Fox News at the same time, who left Fox News because he didn't want to cover up or lie about things anymore and now does his own independent show.
And he's gone the completely opposite direction of Pete Hegseth.
You can kind of see like a light, dark dichotomy.
And anyone that watches those two people knows what I'm talking about.
But like you, you see this.
This is not, we're not a serious country, right?
But we're no serious capabilities.
tim tompkins
And it's, it's so weird to see this type of stuff.
Like, I honestly, it comes from the top down.
Look.
rex jones
Right.
tim tompkins
As much as you know, I want to try to defend Trump in certain things.
I think he set the precedence for something like this.
I think once people saw that, like, he was able to make jokes and like people are like laughing, making memes, it kind of just like made the unseriousness like trickle down through the rest of like his departments and everything like that.
And it became like something that's like normal.
Because if the president can just go on Truth Social, tweet whatever, and Gaza, the new Dubai, and what was it?
Trump Alaza, Trump Gaza.
rex jones
I'll pull that up.
tim tompkins
Like, if you can do stuff like that, that literally sets the presence.
Like, I saw, I'm seeing like a tweet.
It's like, Vance is like, Nikki is greater than like Cardi B or something like that.
It's like, what the?
rex jones
Well, she, she signed on, she signed on fully to be like a kind of like war promoter.
Like, she, she, she made some governmental deal to like be like one of the boosters.
So, like, she's doing a lot of like pro-U.S. stuff right now.
tim tompkins
Yeah, but the only reason why these people think they're the only reason why they're doing it is they think it's cool and that they're appealing to like the Gen Zs who are online in the social media.
rex jones
I think it goes to your later topic, which is what we're about to get into on the second hour of the show, talking about heuristics, talking about the people that read the headlines and the headline syndrome.
We've created a system where the people are so ingrained in that mindset that our rulers reflect that, right?
That our leaders reflect that mindset, which is that that's how people think nowadays.
tim tompkins
Well, it just shows you people are fundamentally flawed.
We think that there are adults in the room that are making right decisions that are supposed to be the ones that like have their senses together, but it just really just shows you that it doesn't matter about age, it does not equal maturity.
And I'm sure the next uh, I see AOC doing bullshit like it too, and I see Gavin Newsome, they're all doing it now.
And I'm like, I'm tired of it.
rex jones
Well, you brought it up, it's it's a classic.
tim tompkins
Let's bring this up.
rex jones
Yeah, Trump Gaza, Trump Gaza Tom.
tim tompkins
He actually posted this, guys.
unidentified
He saw this and was like, Yes, Trump Gaza, shiny rise, golden future, a brand new life.
Feast and dance, the deal is done.
Trump Gaza.
rex jones
He has the big booty chip in the casino.
unidentified
It's Elon Musk.
rex jones
Literally, it's Elon Musk feasting on top of a grave, basically, is what this is.
unidentified
This is crazy.
Trump Gaza, number one.
Whoa.
tim tompkins
Did you not see that?
unidentified
No.
tim tompkins
BB and then Trump just relaxing on the couch.
rex jones
Oh, my God.
unidentified
Dude.
tim tompkins
This is coming from an official president.
rex jones
He saw this and he was, dude, we're so fun.
Oh, no.
Oh, it's so bad.
unidentified
Oh, is all this?
tim tompkins
Is BB posting like this, by the way?
rex jones
No, no, it's certainly not.
He's much more serious leader than what we have.
But I mean, you know, this is there's a lot to take away from this.
Like, just this one still frame.
The president.
tim tompkins
Well, he didn't make this, though.
rex jones
I know, but he saw it and thought it was good.
That's that's that's he endorsed it.
tim tompkins
Like, you know, as sad as it is, though, as sad as it is, I can actually picture something like this happening in the New Orleans Gaza.
I think they're going to split it in half in the northern part when they go to rebuild it and like BlackRock comes in with like a lot of these other countries.
I mean, these other companies, they're going to build like these fancy stuff that like the average person that used to live in those regions can't afford to live in those places.
I see that happening.
rex jones
Yeah, no, I agree with you.
Guys, you know, it's interesting.
Broadcasting or just doing a show or whatever, doing media, it's a lot like athletics, where if you're having a like shitty day, right?
And like you're really tired or beat up or something, it's when honestly you have your best performance kind of out of the blue.
We're doing a really good show here for y'all tonight.
You want to repost the show.
Okay.
Like that's that's number one.
I'm going to, we're going to do a little plug here in a second, but we need you to repost the show more than anything because we usually get a lot more viewers than this.
We appreciate every single person that's on live with us now, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
rex jones
We've been experiencing some, you know, we're shadow banned, man.
It's the system, bro.
But some of that stuff is happening.
So when you share the live link, when you retweet it, when you well, it's not even just that.
tim tompkins
It's also when people are commenting, like we're going to read your chats and we actually want to have like an actual conversation with you too.
But yeah, it's, it's also how much activity that's happening.
Everyone seems pretty dead tonight.
rex jones
Yeah, you know, it's hard too because we don't see all the stuff from X.
I know this is true.
Like go to go to the go check it out.
tim tompkins
Let's see.
rex jones
We do not see everything that people put in X.
But yeah, I mean, like, look, we're doing a really good show, especially tonight.
I've been really happy with how this has gone down.
And really, that's because it's easy, because of the quality of information that we're able to get, and because of the discussions that we have amongst ourselves.
tim tompkins
You're a shadow banned man.
rex jones
Yeah, we are shadow banned, bro.
tim tompkins
No, I only see, I literally only see like six.
rex jones
It's still, it's still loading in.
He caught it now.
Rewatch the streams.
Rewatch the streams.
Like we, we, we have, we have more than that in here.
So, but anyway, hating on the viewers, loving on the viewers.
We love it.
We love you guys very much and we appreciate y'all.
tim tompkins
I was going to say, New Groy, Brian, I haven't heard you say anything the whole night.
Where are you at, buddy?
rex jones
He's around.
He's always around.
tim tompkins
I've seen Honey Badger say something to Jackson.
Glad to see you out here.
Do your best RFK impression.
rex jones
What does that mean?
I had a worm and it found its way into my brain.
And the issue with having it in my brain is that it made me into someone that craved long pig.
His voice is hard as human flesh.
tim tompkins
His voice is hard to do.
It's just so cooked.
Why is his voice like that?
Yeah.
Not to wear off.
rex jones
He says it's from the flu vaccine or some sort of injury.
I forget.
I read his book during COVID and he talks about it in the book.
tim tompkins
It's pretty unbearable to listen to, though, sometimes.
I'm not going to lie.
rex jones
Well, that's why I'm the health secretary and not the press secretary.
tim tompkins
Well, it kind of like takes away from his arguments.
rex jones
No, it's real easy impression, dude.
You just have to hurt your throat.
True, true, true.
It's pretty easy.
tim tompkins
Yeah.
rex jones
But yeah, so just getting back to this really quick, the president thought that this was chill and based and something that was worth posting.
And I'm not cool with this fucking relationship.
I'm not, I'm not cool with this relationship.
tim tompkins
But we've, we've had a relation.
He's been, BB's been in office longer than Trump has.
We've always had a relationship.
rex jones
It's fucking wild.
tim tompkins
We've always chose to side with them.
rex jones
Well, okay.
Going back to presenting.
tim tompkins
So here's the thing.
unidentified
I see stuff like this.
tim tompkins
And just, I'm telling you, I'm getting more and more bothered by the current state of just social media.
And it's just, it's everything is falling into the same patterns.
And just like we talk about this thing that I want to talk about with The heuristics and these biases, these cognitive biases that we had.
So, I know you covered Fuentes and Piers, right?
And I mean, what was your take again?
Just remind me.
So, how did you feel about this?
rex jones
I consider Fuentes, and I do disagree with Fuentes on many things.
I consider him someone that is ideologically honest.
I know you disagree with this, and I consider Piers Morgan to be someone that's ideologically dishonest and therefore a hypocrite.
And therefore, even though I don't agree with Fuentes, I agree with him from the perspective of, hey, I'm honest about my positions.
You're not honest on yours.
I was disappointed in Fuentes because I wanted him to call out Morgan for things like supporting the war in Ukraine and the genocide in Gaza, but he went a different position.
You know, the first thing Piers Morgan started off by doing, I know that you've seen this because you've watched the whole thing in full, right?
tim tompkins
Yeah, I was.
rex jones
The first thing he goes is, your dad had a, it was racist around you when you were a child, and that's why you're racist now.
Isn't that true, Mr. Fuentes?
And they always fuck his name up, right?
It's always like Fuentes.
He's Fuentes.
My dad is like Fuente is super weird.
But I thought that, you know, Piers Morgan, I tweeted this out.
It went viral.
It got like a million hits.
Piers Morgan tries to come off as someone that's like neutral and just like trying to get to the truth.
I don't like people like that because they're not ideologically honest, right?
Like he, he's hunting, right?
And to pretend that you're not hunting and that you're not there for a fight.
He called it an interview.
Wouldn't you call it a debate?
No, I would call it a debate.
tim tompkins
Okay, here's here's how I saw it.
I knew Fuentes knew what he was going to get into, but I don't think he was prepared for that.
Pierce is really good at positioning questions.
It was every question that he was asking was setting him up for some trap.
And Fuentes kind of knew, but he had to walk the breadcrumbs because if he were to avoid it, he would literally be like, oh, you're avoiding the question.
You're avoiding the question.
It was literally like honey traps all over the place that he was trying to do.
That's the thing I didn't appreciate about Pierce.
It was like, it's supposed to be a conversation.
It made it seem like it was he was on trial and you've got to go to court and answer for the question.
rex jones
If he was living where Piers lives, he would be on trial.
That's that's a thing.
And that, that's ultimately, you know, the thing I did like is, you know what?
I'm blackpill, negative, doomer, chuddlet.
Like, I like, I do that all the time.
That's not right to do.
We have to give everyone their flowers and everyone their credit.
Piers Morgan did make a point on the interview to make it clear that he does, at least he does now, supports free speech and wanted to platform Nick and that he didn't think Nick should have been deplatformed.
unidentified
Right.
rex jones
So I think that that is a step in the right direction.
I think that's positive.
I think that's something that, you know, I was glad to see.
I don't like Piers Morgan at all.
I consider him to be evil, but at the same time, that's an opinion that five years ago, we don't see that.
Look, I don't know, that's progress.
tim tompkins
I think both people in this in this whole conversation, they did some good things and then they both did some pretty bad things as far as the commentary.
I'll be honest, like for me, I'm coming at this like from a purely independent, like not leaning one way or the other and was just looking at this objectively.
Here's the thing, especially with Fuentes, I see what he's trying to do.
I know you have the stance that like he's always been doing this and he's always been this way.
rex jones
I understand your position.
tim tompkins
You just don't hear history.
All I am saying is, like they say in the Bible, you live by the sword, die by the sword, right?
rex jones
Yes.
tim tompkins
So here's the thing.
I ultimately don't know what Nick's like primary agenda is at the end of the day.
Like there's a portion of him that I feel like wants to like fight the mainstream, wants to fight the narrative, but then there's other things that like contradict like certain points that he wants to make and that are just not with like for example and and this is where Pierce had him like by the nuts.
rex jones
Dead to rights.
tim tompkins
It was like he was talking about immigration.
And then he said, you have a position that like people shouldn't be having like interracial marriages and shouldn't be.
rex jones
But you're a product of that.
tim tompkins
Like you're a product.
He's like your last, like his last name's literally Fuentes guy.
Right.
Like he's literally part Mexican.
And then like Fuentes is sitting there like backpedaling because he was like, well, I'm not really like, no, dude, you were literally a byproduct of an interracial couple.
rex jones
This is very, this is very key.
This is a very key topic that you broached.
And it's interesting that you bring it up.
So I would argue that he is still being ideologically consistent and that he just doesn't like that part of himself.
Or maybe he doesn't, not that he doesn't like that part of himself, but he doesn't acknowledge it.
Right.
Like he says, look, I believe what he said to that question and response is that he said, like, is Hispanic a race?
tim tompkins
Yeah, but it's like trying to be the spokesperson when you're not, when you are not truly the true representative of that group, if you think about it.
Like, if you're going to stand for the thing.
rex jones
I mean, a lot of the white nationalists are Mexican.
But they love it.
tim tompkins
But this is what I'm saying.
You are literally living in the contradiction that you are trying to preach about.
And at the end of the day, you want to go to the clip?
unidentified
Yeah.
tim tompkins
At the end of the day, here's the thing about Fuentes.
He speaks out a lot of factoids.
And my issue is he has such a big platform that it leads to people taking what he says and they take it verbatim.
And they think that that's like the true truth.
And Pierce does that to me.
rex jones
People believe this, man.
I agree with him on some stuff.
Not racist, but I understand.
I understand what he's saying.
Look, ultimately, do white people deserve a place where they are the majority of the population?
Yes or no?
Does this applies to Europe?
Do they, are they entitled to that?
Or must acceptance immigration and the demographics change.
tim tompkins
We need to, no, here's the thing.
I don't think anyone's entitled to anything.
unidentified
Okay.
tim tompkins
All right.
That's literally my standpoint.
That is literally what my whole standpoint on this.
I don't think anyone is, because here's the thing.
Everyone had their light in, it had their light at some point, right?
Somebody was the majority at some point and somebody was minority immigrating into something.
And it was like basically Darwinism, where it was like the best player won at that point.
Right.
Like 90 to 95% of the Native American population was literally wiped out from disease, from Europe coming over here, right?
They, you could say, well, that was the native population.
And the reason why they went to war with Britain was because they were trying to defend their way of life.
But then the white man won.
So at that point, it was just, but it's so easy to not take that stance once you're now in the position of power.
Whereas if it was the opposite at that point and the Native Americans were like, had the same amount of power that Americans do now, then the people who were quote unquote white and the Europeans would be like, well, you're marginalizing us and you're doing these things to basically prevent us from trying to have a good life in X, Y, and Z. Like it's always just depends on who's in power.
rex jones
The argument, you could say a lot of bad with the West.
The other argument that Nick makes is there's a lot of good.
There's a lot of good things that Western civilization brought to the world that didn't exist in other places.
So like monarchy, for an example, was largely ended by us in America, right?
Largely ended around the world.
This is just a fact.
You look at before America, after America, kings versus no kings.
Good or bad, we did quote unquote export democracy to the world because over 200 plus years, people saw our governmental system.
tim tompkins
Good is all as it was, but I would also say good is relative, it's really relative.
No, when I say it is subjective to a certain part, because at the time period, which you're talking about, the right way for these Native Americans, sure, they're not bringing all the same technological advances, but they're also not destroying, they're living in harmony with no, they're killing each other, though.
rex jones
Like, this is objectively not true.
unidentified
We kill each other, yeah, Europeans were killing each other.
rex jones
The myth of like everyone here chilling out, hanging out, especially in South and Latin America, you have giant pyramids where they're cutting people's hearts out and whatnot.
Like, there are benefits to Western culture.
unidentified
There are.
tim tompkins
I'm not sitting here denying it, but what people do is they take the whole thing and they say, Well, all of what I'm doing is good, and everything that that person did was bad, and so we should just replace it with everything that I'm doing.
And it's really there'sn't that the Darwinism that you're talking about, but I'm saying the Darwinism is what leads to the macro level argument of like, look, you're not entitled to anything.
rex jones
That's true.
tim tompkins
That's that's where I'm trying to get at.
At some point, everyone originated from Africa, right?
Egyptians were super powerful, they were the world power at that point.
Like they had control over X, Y, and Z. Like, there's so many different things where everyone had their day and they were in control.
And then they had immigrants coming in, disrupting, disrupting the way of life.
And it comes down to one thing: it's culture.
It's not really just the skin color.
I'm so sick and tired of people like being like, oh, they add the flavor of the skin color and the race, but it really comes down to culture.
rex jones
Eskimos are the superior race.
Everyone knows this.
People don't want to.
tim tompkins
Well, here's the thing: like, what does it mean to be white?
I'm curious.
rex jones
European.
tim tompkins
Okay.
rex jones
European.
So I would consider someone who's judged.
I would consider someone from Germany white.
Okay, so let's.
tim tompkins
So I'll do a deep dive on this, but let's go back into like the 1800s and 1900s.
Do you know what the most hated demographic was?
rex jones
The Irish are not white.
The Italians are not white.
Yeah, no, I'm totally familiar with what.
tim tompkins
But now they are.
Here's the thing.
It's just, it is literally an evolution.
unidentified
Okay.
tim tompkins
It comes down to culture.
rex jones
You make an excellent argument.
tim tompkins
It comes down to culture, not the skin color.
rex jones
You make an excellent argument about subjectivity because that's a key example that you point out.
You look at the 20th century, those groups very, very much so discriminated against and treated badly in the West because they were seen as lesser.
I mean, they called the Irish white monkeys, for example, right?
tim tompkins
You see an Irish person now, you wouldn't really know he's Irish besides if he had like an accent.
But if he's in Irish descent, you wouldn't have any problem with him because he looks white.
Right.
But at that time period, what they were fighting back against was the culture.
They were fighting that these people were not practicing what we believed in and what our way of life was.
And that's the whole concept of assimilation.
rex jones
That's they're Catholic.
we're Protestant, we're good, we're bad, yes.
tim tompkins
And that's where it is.
I need people to start taking race out of the equation because there's immigrants that come over here that want to assimilate properly, that want to live the American way of life.
And it's like people just dumb it down to like, well, you just don't look like us.
No, like, I'm black.
I got, I was one of the forced, I was one of the forced immigrations, you know, whatever, however you want to classify that.
But the reason why, like, people aren't kicking black people out is because we've assimilated to the culture.
rex jones
Well, I would, I would argue, and this, this is my argument, especially when it comes to African-American or black people, is that like, y'all have as much in this country as we do, right?
Especially with the blood and the illegitimacy of being brought over here against your will, right?
So to say that like we are going to like, you're not a part of the American experiment would just be flat on its face a lie.
tim tompkins
Yeah, I mean, dude, ultimately, America is literally built off of immigration.
There's no way for us to like literally separate it.
Like the whole concept, it's just, it's whoever is in the limelight of each specific century in which is being marginalized at that point.
And it's the marginalization that creates all the things that we're seeing.
It was, like you said, the Irish at one point.
It's the Italians.
Irish and Italians now, you couldn't tell me what an Italian really looks like on the boots on the ground because they look like every other white person.
But at that point.
Besides, if you literally look like you're Sicilian and you've got the dark hair, but I'm just saying people who have like 50%, like everyone's kind of a mutt now in general.
rex jones
The vast majority of the white population in America is German descended.
But I take your point of view.
tim tompkins
But it's a blend is what I'm saying.
unidentified
Yeah.
rex jones
Yeah.
In some cases, yes, I would agree.
I would think it's just interesting that we go, look at all these ethnic groups, the Somalis, the Indians, the Chinese.
We got all these people coming over here and we're freaking out about it.
Meanwhile, those people are just fractions of a percent versus the people that have come over that are like Hispanic or Mexican that have come over through the border, right?
So I see Trump and a lot of these people make a big Hubbaloo about immigration and ending it and whatnot.
The vast majority of the people that are here are already here.
They already came over.
Right.
So like immigration now, like over the past, over the past four years, like Biden, we played the clip on the show, people showing up to the border in Biden shirts, Biden saying surge the border.
The population that was brought in is mostly monoculturals.
It's mostly Hispanic and Mexican.
Right.
So to me, I look at the immigration numbers and I see something like 65,000 visas or whatever.
And I look at that and I go, okay, so there's 10 million people and we're not talking about that, but we're talking about the 65,000.
Just from a numbers perspective, I just think the government and just the people in general don't really have a concept of solving these issues or figuring them out.
It's just a headline, like you say, to get mad about.
tim tompkins
Look, and that's what we did back in the day.
America went, released some crazy ass laws to combat the immigration worse than what we're doing today as far as, well, you could say objectively, whatever, worse, but like, like they outright banned Chinese people from coming to the United States.
Like that was a real thing back in the 1900s.
Like all I'm saying is just like you look at how like we're just forgetting and we're getting amnesia.
We're saying like, okay, well, now Mexicans and some of these other groups are here.
I'm not sitting here defending and being like, oh, well, we shouldn't have, we should have illegal immigration and everybody should just come in.
It's just, it's all the same thing as what I'm saying.
And just like the Italians eventually assimilated into the culture and now you can't really differentiate at that point, the ball's already rolling.
It's going to get to a point where United States morphs into this new society of some sort, creates a specific type of culture that's still American in some form or fashion, but is slightly different.
rex jones
People are raging.
tim tompkins
But I'm saying that is what's happening.
Look, you can't stop it.
That's what I'm saying.
You cannot stop it because I disagree.
rex jones
This is what they have.
I understand.
tim tompkins
They have tried to do that.
They have tried to do this for over the entire existence of America being here.
It's been, we've tried to close our borders.
We tried to ban specific things.
Like people are going to come regardless.
And we need to.
rex jones
People are going to come to the place where there's opportunity.
tim tompkins
Exactly.
And here's the thing.
When we stop making a mess of the rest of the world as well, and we stop creating the refugees that need to come and seek asylum here.
That also is.
rex jones
Now, that's where we come full circle and we agree.
I 100% agree.
And that's what I can't stand.
And that's why I laugh and I go, oh, you're talking about stopping the immigration and stopping the people coming.
And we're making the place unlivable.
That's why they have to come up here.
And that's the hypocrisy.
And, you know, honestly, I think that's why Fuentes is intellectually honest because I've heard him make that point, right?
Like we ruin these places.
tim tompkins
And that's why I say I don't disagree with everything Fuentes says, but I can't drink the Kool-Aid when he goes like to the far right extreme that of like, that's what his, that's what gets him going.
But like, it doesn't mean that that's, that's the, that's the method.
You know, it's, I don't think he's created the equation that solves the problem.
He just takes an extreme position on a lot of things and he's going to alienate a lot of these people in the center like me.
rex jones
Where else do you get a high quality discussion like this?
Where else do you get two people and it's not like a circle jerk event where you're promoting a political candidate or like even a political ideology?
How often do you get real discussions like this where it's just two guys and we are agreeing on things or disagreeing on things?
Ultimately, we're Americans, but we're able to come together just off the concept of having a Socratic discussion, right?
And that's what's missing from our society.
tim tompkins
It is.
It's missing the, here's the thing.
A majority of America is actually somewhere in the center.
That actually is like statistically backed up by the polling.
Yeah, it's backed up by the polling.
The reason why I don't support the Pierce Morgans and the Nick Fuentes is because they're not actually representative of the population still.
I think he makes good points, but I think he misses the name, misses the, he misses the mark on several other points.
rex jones
You want to go to it now?
tim tompkins
Yeah.
I mean, we can, this is just like his perspective on like Hitler and things like that.
rex jones
But we'll play like the first five minutes you said or something like that.
nick fuentes
I want to talk a little bit about Hitler because he got really hung up on Hitler.
rex jones
My first time.
nick fuentes
He asked me, do I affirm the Holocaust?
Do I think Hitler is cool?
And he got all bent out of shape.
He said, I don't think Hitler is really cool.
I think he's really a monster and he's the worst mass murderer and this, that, and the other.
And, you know, he asked me, what is it about Hitler that's cool?
And I said, well, the edits, these, these video edits of Hitler set to music.
They show the parades, the military, the speeches, the charisma.
And that's just true.
That's why I asked him.
rex jones
I don't think Hitler's cool at all.
nick fuentes
But after the interview, I was thinking to myself, why is Hitler cool?
Because he definitely is.
And when I say cool, I'm not saying he's good.
I'm not saying he's great or anything like that.
tim tompkins
I'm saying he's cool.
He's only saying this now after the fact that he go back and watch it.
But if you look at him live.
rex jones
That's the broadcasting.
That's the hard part.
tim tompkins
It is hard.
But he has said this in previous lives before he went on Pierce Morgan, where he's in his own monologue.
And these are the beliefs that he has.
He is going to say he's cool now.
He's like, oh, it's not that cool because he knows he's getting some backlash from it.
rex jones
But like, it is interesting.
He's kind of like, he has had to moderate himself a little bit.
tim tompkins
Dude, I'm telling you.
And you live by the sword, die by the sword.
Perfect example.
Do you ever notice that Andrew Tate has kind of mellowed out a little bit?
rex jones
Yeah, he kind of disappeared.
tim tompkins
This is what happens.
Here's the thing, guys.
If you want to incite true change in the world, you don't go to an extreme and have positions where you can like go and alienate a specific base and you just like make a point, get super polarizing, and then you basically get a lot of people to rally around you.
Then you actually lose a lot of people at the end of the day.
There's a reason why Malcolm X wasn't the one that changed the whole civil rights movement.
It was MLK.
rex jones
Yeah, but there's also a reason why they killed both those people.
And it's a reason why, you know, when Malcolm X was like, like, kill the white people, they were the CIA was like, hell yeah.
But when he was like, hey, start bringing people together, oh, he dies.
Well, isn't that interesting?
tim tompkins
Here's the thing.
Malcolm X was going to die from his extreme positions to begin with.
Martin Luther King, his ideology carried on farther than Malcolm X's ever did.
And it will still, because he went to the source.
Went to the political realm where he said, Okay, he did it like in a Gandhi way where he was like, Look, I'm not going to incite violence and I'm not going to get my agenda because at the end of the day, so disobedience.
Yeah, there's ways that that work, and there's ways that don't work.
And there's, here's the thing: when you say stuff like this, Fuentes is gonna is burning bright right now, but they fizzle out really quickly.
rex jones
Dude, you're so wrong on that.
tim tompkins
I mean, all right, he's at his peak right now.
rex jones
Are you crazy?
tim tompkins
I'm telling you right now.
I'm telling you right now, the same way Andrew Tate was very popular for the last five years and has fizzled out some.
I'm telling you, five years from now, Fuentes is not going to be in the same limelight as he is right now.
That is my take on that.
rex jones
Be nice to the president, okay?
Be nice to the future Secretary of Agriculture.
All right, keep going.
unidentified
Cool.
nick fuentes
Darth Vader is cool.
Hitler is cool.
He's cool.
When you watch the videos, Darth Vader is pretty cool.
Well, you sort of have to be cool.
How do you win the absolute allegiance of a nation of millions if you're not cool?
If you don't have an X quality, I don't think anyone would deny that he's a charismatic speaker, a visionary, imaginative, that sort of thing, whether for good or for bad.
Most would say bad, of course.
But he's certainly cool.
And I was thinking because I saw a lot of the edits after the interview.
People took that clip where I said, well, the edits, and then they spliced it with a Hitler edit, a hype edit where there's Euro pop music, techno music blasting, and it's the tanks and it's the speeches.
tim tompkins
Pause it and skip.
rex jones
Hold on.
unidentified
Like, we really are the brain generation.
rex jones
Like watching YouTube shorts with Hitler.
They're like, yeah, fuck yeah.
nick fuentes
He's cool, man.
tim tompkins
He's but you know why he says that?
And like, there were times where, like, guys, look, Fuentes is actually genuinely funny.
And like, it's like you're talking.
rex jones
He's a great broadcast.
tim tompkins
There's times where you're like, you feel like you're in a Call of Duty lobby and you're just like joking around.
And like, my friends and I make jokes to each other.
unidentified
It's fun.
tim tompkins
But he goes to an extent that goes past a limit that actually ends up hurting him at the end of the day, is what I'm saying.
I think there's a healthy limit.
And then there's, there's enemies you make behind closed doors that there's that there's no need to.
rex jones
This is the like gain, you know, you know what, you know what gain of function research is, right?
They take a virus and they try to make it more transmissible or more deadly or whatnot.
This is what happens when you do gain of function research on the alternative media.
When you suppress people for years and years and years and years leading up to a decade, this is what you create coming out of the environment in 2015.
This is this is what you create.
tim tompkins
Okay, so you are hitting the nail on the head on the next point that I was going to make.
rex jones
Okay.
tim tompkins
Marginalization.
That is the key thing here.
Okay.
The reason why Hitler existed in the first place was from marginalization of like basically treating Germans like second-class citizens after World War I ended and all of the reparations they had to pay, all of the things that they went through, all the things that they basically got treated based even if the people weren't directly involved.
rex jones
They were destroyed and they had to pay other countries.
tim tompkins
And they got pushed down so far and the company and the country got so depressed that it allowed the racial and ethnic minorities.
It allowed room for somebody like Hitler to rise out of the anger.
Okay.
And that comes from marginalization.
It's the same reason why Martin Luther King and Amalcolm X rise is because when black people were marginalized at that point, I see where he's he makes a point here at some point where he was like, look, at what point do we stop talking about the Holocaust and some of these other events?
Like, for example, I'm black.
rex jones
I don't sit here talking about the three-hour discussion about slavery before the broadcast.
You see, we had to do it every time before we go live.
We have to do the struggle session and then we can begin the show.
Obviously, people don't operate like that, right?
tim tompkins
So, so yeah, like the thing about slavery, like I'm not the person who's going to sit up and be like, Rex, you owe me reparations.
No, I'm not going to live.
I'm not going to live by the victimhood of that.
But what ends up happening is black people were marginalized.
It caused them to get angry enough that they went out and the voices were held.
People like Fuentes now have platforms because the reverse racism happened to a certain extent where white people.
Well, I'm just saying, I say reverse racism.
You had these movements where now the white people were now being labeled all as like bad people.
And like you had to continuously give up certain things and like you, you couldn't have a specific voice.
Otherwise, they'd call you a racist.
And that reversed racism and that reverse marginalism created anger.
It's that same anger.
And it is a nice little feedback loop is what I'm saying.
That cycle needs to end because you breed extreme positions out of that marginalization is where it all boils down to.
When people are angry, they find reasons to be angry about and then they attach statistics to it.
They attach whatever suits their narrative in order to push why they're angry.
And then they look for anybody to basically use as a punching bag.
Black people did the same thing during George Floyd.
They said any white person and they said, all right, look, we're just going to go out.
And, you know, I see, you see a white person start talking shit to them and start doing shit that like you shouldn't be doing in normal circumstances.
Like stuff that we don't condone.
rex jones
And you know what?
And that's my main bone of contention with Fuentes.
I like his show.
I enjoy it.
I have a weird view of things because like I'm a fan of alternative media.
It's like I just like to watch the best people, right?
Like just the highest quality skills and talent.
Like Fuentes is that due dissidents people are that.
There are other shows like my dad's that I watch and I disagree with my dad on a lot of stuff, but I'll still watch the show because he does a great show.
Ultimately, my biggest bone of contention with Fuentes and really what I was raised, the main difference between my father and Fuentes, and this is an ideal that I really, I really do try to, I really do try to have this as a value in my life is being pro-humanity and being a human supremacist and being worried about our future as a collective species of people created in the image of God.
Everyone deserves human rights.
Everyone deserves liberties.
Everyone deserves to be treated a certain way with a certain level of dignity.
And what I don't like is the indemnification of groups of people as being lesser or less than.
tim tompkins
Well, he said that about women, right?
rex jones
Well, I'm going to make a point.
All right.
And we can come in and debate with you, but I think you're going to like where I go here.
I heard someone like, shit, maybe it's like, and I won't get into who it was or whatnot, but I heard someone call someone subhuman.
And I was like, you really believe that about people.
You believe that about a person.
You believe that a person is less than, you'd call them that word.
You'd use that term.
That broke my heart.
I didn't like that.
And I don't like that worldview.
And Fuentes leans into that worldview.
And that's my main disagreement with him.
I don't like it.
I think it comes from a very sick place, you know, to be very disturbed and abused to get to that point.
And I think that happens through culture, like you're saying.
I think it happens through environment.
Someone have a bad experience with one person and then attach the group to it.
And that becomes a thing.
And that is a reason for a lot of racism, right?
People have a bad experience with one group, black people with white people, white people with black people, brown, whatever.
And that's kind of how it happens.
And we have to move past that, or we're all not just going to not thrive.
We're all going to die and end up killing each other because the people at the top, the rich people, they don't give a shit about any of that.
tim tompkins
It's always money talking.
rex jones
The only color is green.
tim tompkins
Exactly.
rex jones
And like, that's, that's the only thing that matters to them.
tim tompkins
So right.
rex jones
And it's the poor people.
It's the brokeies.
It's, it's the simps, really.
We're simps if we believe in this worldview.
And I get being able to be proud of your culture.
That's the part of the racial stuff I support with Fuentes.
Like white people shouldn't be ashamed to be white.
White people should be proud of their culture.
I agree with that.
When it comes to saying other people are, you know, we agree.
And this is why the show is so fun is because you were talking about, hey, like invalidating another culture and saying this thing is better and replacing it, right?
We're talking about the examples we were going through earlier.
It really does come down to treating people and giving them the opportunities to be successful.
And the means to do that is through by giving them liberty, right?
By giving them the ability to thrive.
And I do see a lot of the negative racial narrative as being anti-that.
What are your thoughts on that?
I know you had something.
tim tompkins
I mean, look, very explicitly said during that interview, he said, I don't think women should be equal.
And I'm not, look, I'm not a feminist at the end of the day.
I'm very like neutral about these specific things.
I think there are things that women do that are like that men can't do.
rex jones
I think there's women are better than men because they make children.
That's what it comes down to ultimately.
tim tompkins
I just think there are strengths and weaknesses in certain things.
And so like the boss girl era, I was not with that, but I'm also not with going to the complete opposite side of the spectrum and being like, well, now we need to take away voting rights for women.
Like what?
Like it just, it's a red pill perspective that does not work for the longevity of the country and let alone the society as a whole.
I think Fuentes is a very talented speaker.
I think he has a very good way with words and he could be the right messenger, but he has the wrong message when it comes to a lot of things.
rex jones
You know what I support?
Age restriction for voting.
Like if you're a boomer and you're over a certain age, you shouldn't be able to vote anymore because you're going to die.
And then this decisions that you make are going to impact the younger population.
That's a joke.
Obviously, that's a joke.
unidentified
All right.
rex jones
I'm just a little boomer hater over here.
I enjoy hating on the boomers.
But like, seriously.
tim tompkins
One thing I also did not like in this whole debate was the use of Christianity.
Look, I'm not necessarily like ultra religious.
My grandmother was a pastor.
I grew up in the church.
I was very Christian upbringing.
And then I had things that were contradictions that I had questioned.
But ultimately, it doesn't matter what you practice.
It's your belief system.
It is what it is.
rex jones
You believe in God and Jesus?
tim tompkins
I believe there is a higher power.
Wow.
I think there is a God.
rex jones
Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior, undefeated.
Amazing.
Incredible.
tim tompkins
I've, I've, uh, those are conversations that we'll have, but I grew up in Christianity.
Like literally, my, my whole family's Christian.
rex jones
Even Protestantism can be very contradictory.
tim tompkins
Yeah.
Here's the thing.
If Fuentes, and even Pierce, I'll throw Pierce in this.
If you really look at like what Jesus practiced and you look at like the messaging that he had and what he believed for and stood in, a lot of these people use the name of like Jesus and Christianity and they use it in the wrong context all the time.
rex jones
To be a Christian, do you know what that word means?
tim tompkins
I think it's in the likeness of God, right?
rex jones
No, Christian means little Christ.
So you're supposed to be a little Christ in what you do.
tim tompkins
Yeah, so we're saying, we're saying the same thing, basically.
rex jones
Yes, exactly.
tim tompkins
You're in the likeness of Jesus.
You're in the likeness of God.
Here's the thing.
50% of the stuff that Fuentes said, just even in the interview alone, let alone the other things that I've watched, Jesus would have never said those things, let alone had those positions.
rex jones
Yeah.
tim tompkins
And it's like, look, you're all for whatever you want to believe.
But when you use Christianity in a way that like you, you take the bits and pieces that work, it's like the, it's like the priest coming in on Sunday after being at the bar on a on a Saturday night and just and preaching and being like, hallelujah, everything is good and glory and stuff like that.
rex jones
Like the thing you're having an issue with the hypocrisy.
tim tompkins
There's a hypocrisy there.
And like Pierce is the same thing.
He's like, yo, go get laid.
rex jones
Go, you have to do that.
You're not having sex.
tim tompkins
You're not having sex, young man.
rex jones
Like, I used to be so good at impressions.
I need to practice again.
I used to have such a good having sexual relations, Mr. Fuentes.
tim tompkins
Yeah, he's like, you're not having sex.
And if you're Catholic, like saving yourself from marriage and one thing, and totally fine.
Fuentes is like leading by example, but then there's a contradiction where he's just like spewing out the N-word and saying Hitler's cool.
And there's like certain things that like literally, if you were to just like take the embodiment and just look at Jesus as a whole, whether you believe in him or whether you're not, the Bible does not push these things.
rex jones
That's a good point.
tim tompkins
These are polarizing things in the whole concept of Jesus and Christianity and the nuances among like not even just that.
If you look at the Judaism, there is a you're supposed to bring people together, not create a toxic environment that actually creates separation.
And both the left and right have the same issue where they use the word Jesus.
And it's not just Fuentes.
I'm just using him as an example.
There's so many people that do this.
I know I'm a Christian.
rex jones
I'm a Christian.
I don't like it because to me, you know, I agree with Fuentes on a lot of the preserving the heritage, preserving the culture.
White people aren't a bad thing.
I agree with that.
But then to qualify that by meaning it's yes, I am a racist, that ties that cultural defense to being racist.
And I don't think that those two things are mutually exclusive.
unidentified
Yeah.
rex jones
I mean, but you see that that's my problem with it.
And that, that's why I don't blanket endorse.
You know what?
Look, he follows me on Twitter.
Milo follows me on Twitter.
Super weird.
Respect, kudos.
Both more talented than me.
Please follow me.
tim tompkins
I like what I'm just saying.
When you say these things, there is a bunch of people that are watching this that are on the other side.
And there's a bunch of black people.
And then it reinforces how they feel.
rex jones
Because as I was watching, a lot of black people like him, you know, because he's honest.
It really honest.
tim tompkins
Yeah, if you're talking about the extreme conservative, but if you're talking about the 90 to 95% of Democrats, I agree.
rex jones
Yes, yes, yes, of course.
tim tompkins
You really look at it.
And so now you hit the nail on the head.
The final thing that I wanted to come to the conclusion is like this cognitive bias that we have.
The whole time during this debate, they were each taking factoids and spitting out numbers and making it seem like one thing that Pierce wouldn't concede to is like Fuentes had a point.
He was like, look, the number of black violence versus white crime or whatever with the school shootings is not proportional to the population.
But like he wouldn't give him, he was like trying to ask him.
He was like, what is who's making a good point?
So Picker Pierce.
unidentified
Okay.
tim tompkins
He was like, look, the number of white shooters in the white population is lower than the per capita is lower than black people committing crime in their own race, essentially.
It's not proportional to the population, essentially.
There's two different proportions.
And then he was trying to get Pierce to tell me, tell you, like he was like, hey, give the number.
What's the number?
And then Pierce was kind of like beating around the bush and not trying to concede on that point because Fuentes was right.
But then what people look at that and they're like, oh, well, when Fuentes is like, well, if you see a black person, you're walking down the street.
You should walk the other way.
Look, even if you're looking at the numbers, it's like 5% of black people are actually committing the crimes out there.
95% are not.
rex jones
They're normal people like me who are that 5%.
They commit a lot of crimes.
That's the issue.
tim tompkins
And that's fine.
It's the same way.
Like I could say, like all school shooters are white.
But like, if you look at the percentage towards the population, we have an availability bias is what it's called.
It's where you look at that small sample size and you prescribe it to the rest of the population and it becomes the narrative and it's dangerous because then it causes that marginalization.
It causes these groups.
So I want to pull up this video.
rex jones
Oh, you want to go to the thing?
unidentified
Okay.
rex jones
And the blue one?
tim tompkins
Yeah.
And I want to before actually before we do that, I want people in the chat to comment on this.
Do you think that the world has gotten more or less violent since the beginning of time?
And don't play this video where I want people to actually comment on X, YouTube, wherever you guys are.
Do you guys think that the world has become more or less violent, more or less violent over the years?
rex jones
And if you're re-watching a live, you're re-watching a stream, you're re-watching a clip, please give us your opinion here in the comment section so we can build kind of a group collective of what people I will wait for some comments because I'm curious.
tim tompkins
Now let me go ahead real quick.
rex jones
You want the keyboard?
tim tompkins
You good?
I just want to pull this guy up.
rex jones
It's there.
It's already up where it's right next to it.
I already have it.
tim tompkins
Oh, you do?
unidentified
Yeah.
rex jones
I think we're displaying though.
So you might want to go back.
tim tompkins
Oh, no, never mind.
rex jones
Never mind.
It's up there.
tim tompkins
There's no way.
rex jones
Never mind.
Never mind.
tim tompkins
I need more comments.
I need more comments.
This one?
Oh, we could use this one because this is the one that we were talking about.
unidentified
Okay.
rex jones
Yeah.
New Greiper says there's no way to have the data necessary to make that determination.
There were not crime statistics.
tim tompkins
No, but they had pretty clear estimates on the number of deaths at specific points.
rex jones
Weren't there also less people as well?
tim tompkins
There are less people proportionally, but we're talking about per capita.
We're not talking about population.
rex jones
All right.
We'll get into it, Tim.
tim tompkins
I only got one person commenting.
Do you guys think that we've gotten more or less violent as a society?
rex jones
We owe New Greper a Porsche.
We ought to buy it.
tim tompkins
The world has become more violent since the beginning of time.
unidentified
Okay.
tim tompkins
That is what community guidelines say.
Anyone else?
Anyone else?
Where can they even get that from?
rex jones
He calls Bull.
What do you say to that?
tim tompkins
It's the look.
Even if you're talking about going back towards the 1800s, they kept their estimates and they kept it.
rex jones
How do we know how many people died during the Black Death?
tim tompkins
Yeah, they've kept the stats are pretty not going to be their estimates, but they're going to give you a rough idea of exactly how it is.
You're not going to get it down to the nearest person, but you're going to have a pretty good idea depending on because people do create records, guys.
Like they do have records just like you knew how many people died in World War II because the Germans were literally keeping track of how many Jews they killed during that time period.
unidentified
All right.
tim tompkins
So we got two people that said less.
rex jones
Michael Grepper, you're going to fight.
So spar.
You want to go to it?
tim tompkins
Yeah, let's go to it.
Okay.
So some people said more.
And it may seem like that.
rex jones
More with the fit.
unidentified
Yeah.
rex jones
Yeah, dude.
tim tompkins
And it may seem like that.
But here's the actual numbers and death in the millions.
You can see that big, little, that big line.
That's 1950s.
That's World War II.
I mean, sorry, 1940s.
That's World War II.
But you can see it's kind of like a bell curve.
Okay.
rex jones
Now go ahead.
tim tompkins
Before in these like BCE, we actually had less deaths than during this time period in the middle here.
Okay.
And then this is a lower population.
rex jones
Is that true?
Because Chinese history is pretty insane.
tim tompkins
Yeah, but we're talking about BCE.
This is like very, you're talking, you're looking at these.
Yeah, I guess you're starting to get to the point where you're looking at like high population deaths at this point.
Ultimately, you can look at a million graphs, but we have gotten net negative and we have had a net amount of people have not died as much as back in the day.
rex jones
He says you have no way to verify it.
tim tompkins
Even if we, okay, even if we go, I got to pull this up for New Griper.
Even if we go to the charts that show in the 1800s, which are going to be way more accurate than what we have today.
Like, let's say we don't even go to BCE, New Gripper.
rex jones
That's a cool graph.
What was that?
tim tompkins
Okay, let's say we don't even go that far back.
If you look at just the 1800s, we have well-documented.
rex jones
Are we displaying it?
tim tompkins
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, we're displaying it.
They have these things documented, New Groyper.
These are things like we weren't in the stone ages where people didn't know how to record and take count of how many casualties they had.
And it always talks about wars themselves.
I'm saying he's not going to be satisfied.
Estimates are estimates for a particular reason because they take the culmination of data that they had during that time, and then they can also extrapolate, just like you can go and look at, you're like, how can they tell how old something is?
You have science that backs it up at the end of the day.
rex jones
Maybe a topic for a deep dive in the future.
unidentified
It is.
tim tompkins
But ultimately, just look at this.
We've gotten less violent as a society.
We need to add the fent line than we've had in the past.
rex jones
The graph.
tim tompkins
But if people were to take it, they would think that we've gotten more violent and that things are worse.
And why do you think that is, Rex?
Why do you think that people think that today is more violent and there's more crime and there's more access to more information, access to more biased information.
Yeah, it's the headline.
It's the clicks, really.
And let's pull up the video real quick so that people can see what this cognitive bias is.
And I'll kind of further explain.
But even before Christ and all the things that happened during that, people are dying.
We have a much bigger population than back then.
And if you look at the percentage of like people dying then versus now, it's even less, like per capita, even though technically it's a higher number like by the numbers.
But if you look proportionally to the population, we're dying less now than we are dying back then.
rex jones
Nick Fuente should get a per capita back tattoo, like giant letters.
It might be a fun choice.
Just having fun here on the show.
But here's the thing.
We are told that the world is bad, the world's getting worse, XYZ.
And I repeat a lot of that stuff.
But ultimately, is that true to a certain extent?
Yes, I agree because they're taking us into a more primitive realm where these old concerns are starting to pop up and become possible.
But the cause of this is the rich people at the top.
It's the oligarch class.
It's that 0.0001%.
And like we talked about earlier on the show, like the only color these people care about is green, right?
And traditionally, wars are fought over territory.
They're fought over resources.
They're fought for ethnic or racial reasons or religious reasons.
Ultimately, the goal of all these people that are truly in power, and I believe this, I know me and you have debated this, but look, it's going to come to a point where there's nothing really we can do about it.
There are going to be way less people on the planet than there used to be because the elites will be successful in their depopulation, however it happens through environmental poisoning, through vaccination, through new pandemic.
They'll figure it out.
They'll figure out a way to do it.
There will be less people one day on the earth than there really should be, in my view.
And that's where we're all headed.
So you can point at the graph and say, yeah, we've had a lot less deaths, right, than we used to have.
And we're getting better on that front when it comes to war.
I would agree with you.
But there comes a situation where These people like Henry Kissinger, they call us useless eaters, right?
They say, Okay, we have this big population and all the white papers and all the researchers say, Look, we just want to have 500 million people.
And if we have 500 million people and we have automation and we have robots, none of this stuff matters, and we'll never have another war again.
So, in your mind, my question to you, Tim, do you like that vision of the world more or do you like the chaotic pro-humanity version of the world more where we may have more wars, we may have more conflicts, but ultimately there will be more people alive because we're not trying to kill them.
What do you think about that?
tim tompkins
I mean, dude, the population decline is not just related to like sterilizing wealthy, but it's just it is money that comes in.
rex jones
Yeah, but the people that are worth billions of dollars talk about wanting to kill all the people.
tim tompkins
But I, the white pills perspective for me is automation, access to energy at a mass level that's very cheap.
All of these things combined together will create a net positive society where, yes, we'll have less and less wars to fight over because there's less and less of us needing to fight over resources.
rex jones
People are bad for the climate.
And you know what?
It'd be a nice thing if we killed them all so that the planet stayed all good.
tim tompkins
You're always going to have bad actors like that that like they eventually get squashed by who?
I'm saying never.
No, they like, for example, the Rockefellers, they get squashed.
No, I'm saying ultimately, they get like the Rockefellers aren't the reason why the population has like increased or decreased.
Like, they're not sitting there, they're going for resources.
That's not where their play is.
Yes, there are people.
rex jones
That's not what they say.
That's not what they say in their writings.
It's not what they brag about or talk about.
tim tompkins
But yeah, they can sit there and say that in their writings, but in practice, actually eliminating a large demographic of the population is much more harder than you think, even if you have all the money in the world.
People are going to have kids regardless of whatever they're going to do.
It's really about what are the lifestyle practices?
What are people going to go do with their lives?
What are they being taught?
What things are they not doing versus what they used to do?
That's ultimately what's determining the population.
rex jones
I thought we agreed on this, though.
They want to make the poor people fight over the racial stuff and they want to make them only know about the headlines and the heuristics, like we're going to get into when we play the video.
And they're up at the top profiting and benefiting off it.
I guess you see it as a situation where you go, okay, why would they put all this effort into doing this thing, which is sick when they can just let it all play out and they're still going to be on top?
Is that your argument?
tim tompkins
Yeah, I was going to say it's a power play in which if all the people are gone, who do you have to actually rule over and create?
No, but like, that's not that, that's not a fun game for people.
rex jones
These people are real weird.
tim tompkins
No, but I'm just saying, like, let's say you eliminate all the humans in the world and somebody got what they wish.
The whole point of somebody being rich becomes null at that point.
Because the whole point of humans is we have a natural tendency to compete.
And if there's no one to compete against and actually compare your metrics to, then it's a whole point is mute.
They would rather have a whole bunch of people working the way that it's supposed to be.
Working.
Okay.
They would rather have a whole bunch of people just working underneath them and still have those people exist so that they can actually fulfill it.
rex jones
Yeah, but they're going to give those people over time a worse and worse and worse quality of life until it ends up being, in fact, slavery.
I mean, that's the plot of 1984.
tim tompkins
Yeah, but that's that's a different argument than what you're saying about like literally wiping out wiping out.
rex jones
It's a gradual, it's a gradual process.
I never said it wasn't a gradual process, but that is the end goal, right?
And this is why I want to build human class consciousness around being human and having value and identity in that.
And that's why I think it's so important is because you're a nice person.
You don't think this way about people, but they do think this way about people.
tim tompkins
No, I, dude, I've been part of conversations.
I've seen, I've, I've been around powerful people.
I've seen the dark stuff that happens.
I'm saying I'm just saying netwise, society has moved in a net positive direction.
And I think what's driving some of this stuff is those cognitive biases that I'm talking about, in which people are not looking at the whole picture.
And just to clarify, some new group here was asking about like, why are those numbers the way that they are and how are they, how do they exist?
There's a couple of reasons for why.
Like one, you have actual physical bones.
And uh, and like an you have of the dead people and skulls and things like that, and then you can, they can do carbon tracing where they can determine how long ago did those bodies.
You're gonna have to do a whole deep dive to make him happy I, I know, but i'm just, i'm gonna.
I'm just just clarifying because I didn't, I did not make it very clear for how you could understand that, so that that's one of the like the skeletons are one thing where they literally can find the burial graves of these and backtrace where the dates.
Then also you you have uh, they did have censuses back then.
The reason, like you're never gonna get an exact number, that's why they call them estimates but they did keep track of who invented the, who invented the Um Census the Romans.
The Romans, they had census where they actually determined how many people were in specific areas and so they kept track of populations that way as well, and we have history of people recording specific things in events that happen.
So you're looking at not just the bones, you're also looking at the records, and then they also have um written records where like uh, there's actually UM city logs.
There's like people who literally would record the deaths and do these things in which they would actually record.
So that's that, that's where i'm driving these, where most of these people are driving these numbers.
It's not just throwing a wild number out there and just seeing like well, a bunch of people died, like the reason why you talk about the black plague is because they recorded how many people were dying as best as they could during that time period and you had estimates during that which you can refer to now.
The records get better and better and the numbers get more and more accurate.
rex jones
But let's go to the video just to show the blue one yeah, to just show, like this, cognitive explain heuristics for just briefly, just a minute on heuristics.
Let's pull up the definition.
tim tompkins
So that way I got.
I mean, the whole video explains it specifically.
rex jones
Okay, all right well, we're gonna cut to the video.
This is the headline culture that we're talking about, but this is it more defined as the default form, right?
So we're going to go to this now.
unidentified
Every day you make decisions and judgments.
Sometimes you're able to think about them carefully, but other times you make them on the fly, using little information.
This is where heuristics come in.
Heuristics are straightforward rules of thumb that we develop based on our past experiences.
They're cognitive tools that help us make quick decisions or judgments.
Life would be exhausting if we had to deliberate over every one of the hundreds of choices we make every day, so instead, we use our heuristics as shortcuts to make judgments about the world around us, for example, rather than spending time deciding what to Wear every day, you might have some default outfits.
It's called whatever's in the drawer when faced with a lunch menu with too many options.
You may opt for what you've enjoyed in the past.
Heuristics aren't about making the perfect decision or judgment, just about making one quickly.
Heuristics play a role in our reasoning about the broader world as an example.
Consider the rate of violence in the world over the past century.
Is the world more or less violent in the past 20 years than previously?
Heuristic reasoning might lead us to think that the world is more violent today than it has been in the past.
Every day we're confronted with images of tragedy in the news and on social media.
We might reasonably assume that the world is more violent today than ever before using what's called an availability heuristic.
That is, examples of violence that are so readily available, we just naturally assume the world is more violent today.
But in fact, the world is more peaceful today than ever before in human history.
tim tompkins
We may hear a lot about violent events, but so this is really important here.
Like if you were to look at the headlines, you open up X, you go look at videos, you go look at all these different things.
I know we've had debates about this on previous shows where I'm like, look, I try to tell you, I was like, look, hey, bro, ultimately, you know, life is like net positive right now.
We're living better than kings.
And it comes down to like these.
rex jones
I take your point.
tim tompkins
And that was where I was trying to get to is like, it's very easy for us to fall into the behavior because like that's what attention sells.
rex jones
But should we not hold ourselves as more evolved humans to a higher standard?
This would be my argument.
Sure, we're living better than kings were back in the day.
My argument to that would be like, you know, if everyone has access to live better than a king, then why do some people still not?
Right.
tim tompkins
No, like, I was saying, like, yeah, you can, you can look at the specific cases where that's not happening, but you got to look at the net proportion of people living better lives than kings.
Even the poorest people here in America live a better lives.
rex jones
This is a great topic for a deep dive because I can see a lot of different angles on here.
unidentified
In terms of raw numbers, fewer people die today at the hands of other human beings than ever before.
So that heuristic about how violent the world is is incorrect.
In fact, a slew of other heuristics can easily lead us to mistaken conclusions.
And it doesn't matter how it's copying my birthmark.
rex jones
That's not right.
That's discrimination.
Right there.
That's discrimination against red-spotted people like me.
Samantha makes an interesting point.
I want to keep playing the video.
And she says, are we differentiating in violence as in like being degen or just mass carnage?
Like societal standard?
Because a lot of people, like that would be the argument I think on the side of Fuentes that you're really like, you're not seeing because it doesn't impact your worldview.
A lot of people are not happy with like the modern life per se or like, you know, from like a traditional perspective.
tim tompkins
No, but okay.
rex jones
What's your view on that?
tim tompkins
So to clarify that, it's very easy to point out what you don't have versus what you do have.
Okay.
There are things that we take for granted on a regular, on a regular basis that we don't account for because they become a habitual nature and something that we're used to.
If you were to take into account and like people were to practice the whole aspect of gratitude and really doing a deep analyzation, the things that we have to complain about today are really not anything compared to what they had to complain about back in the day.
Before you literally had to worry about living past the age of disinterruption.
Yeah, you had so many things to worry about.
And we're sitting here complaining about he said this on the internet and she said that.
And this person shouldn't be walking in here and doing that when literally like you had barbarians at your door ready to come rape your wife and kill your children.
Like there's situations like that where you don't, you know, you don't worry about an interesting thing.
rex jones
I'm not sure when this invention came out.
I believe it's 1700, something like that, 1800, something like that.
It could be a bit later, but I think it's that time period when a soldier used to break their leg in war, like a really bad leg break.
Like it's like rap 75% death rate.
Like you are done.
Like it's like a horse like puts you down basically.
tim tompkins
100%.
rex jones
Then someone came up with this thing.
It is essentially like a big cast, but it's like a thing you put the leg in between, it straightened it out and forced it back into position.
And that death rate goes down to being like 15% or something like that.
And then just one invention like that.
So I understand your perspective and I can agree with you on some of what you're saying here.
I do get it.
I do get the point.
It's all about progress over time, usually for the better.
tim tompkins
It's all about what you put the lens on.
Yeah, it's all about what you put the lens on and what you're focusing on.
I am taking a 10,000-foot view and objectively looking at the things that we're struggling with today.
And I'm saying proportionally to the time period, I would rather be dealing with arguing whether Fuentes and Pierce are right over the fact of like whether I'm going to catch the black plague and die.
You know, here's the thing.
At that time period, like we had the pandemic, right?
unidentified
Right.
tim tompkins
If the coup, if, if the pandemic was as if like we didn't have the technological advances, there probably could have been a lot more people and a lot more situations.
Maybe it's not this disease or maybe there's other.
unidentified
No, no, no.
rex jones
I would argue vaccine.
tim tompkins
No, no, no.
I'm not talking about the vaccine.
I'm talking about the research itself in which we try to, we have CDC and we have people researching literal like plagues ahead of time to make sure that they're squashed before they even reach the level.
At that time period, it was like you just let it, it just happens.
unidentified
There's nobody.
rex jones
I'm going to give an example for you.
So all throughout the southern United States, we used to have this problem with this parasite.
And I'm blanking on what it was called, but it used to infect cows and pigs and you name it.
And basically what we did is we irradiated millions of these like bugs or worms or whatever they were.
And then we released them during mating season and they died off, right?
And a lot of these Latin American countries and South American countries still have to deal with this thing because they didn't use that technological innovation like we did at the time that we used it.
So it's stuff, it is stuff like that, like quality of life.
Like we don't have to deal with that parasite here.
And I saw, you know, you ever see like those Kurshkazat videos?
tim tompkins
Yeah.
rex jones
You know what I'm talking about?
unidentified
I love those.
rex jones
They got an excellent one on like global like parasite deaths.
And we should actually, that would have been pretty good to play for the show because this feeds into everything you're talking about here.
Like used to be like hundreds of millions of people that have basically not that many, but like millions of people that have died from these things.
Right.
And then now the number is like 1% of what it was.
unidentified
Yeah.
And what I'm just trying to say, it is a privilege.
tim tompkins
It is a privilege for us to worry about the things that we're worrying about right now because there's so many things that are being taken care of for us in the background that we have no idea.
unidentified
Oh, nothing and you're happy and you'll eat the bug and it's a bit very delicious for you.
tim tompkins
I know, I know.
I'm just saying, like, there are so many things that happen in the background that are being taken care of for us in a positive manner, not just the negative ones.
I'm saying not just the ones that want to control their dude.
rex jones
They must have fed me some lizard meat.
tim tompkins
There are legitimate people that went out there with the intention of building a better society.
Otherwise, we wouldn't have like half of the things that we have that bring a better quality of life.
And that is a, I, there's no way anyone can refute that we have a better life now than we did back then.
rex jones
I take your point.
I agree with that.
You want to play the rest of the video?
tim tompkins
Yeah, let's go.
unidentified
Smart or well-educated you are.
Anyone can place too much trust in the mental shortcuts they use to make sense of the world.
Take this example.
Let's say a person tests positive for a rare disease, one that only one in a thousand people have.
What is the likelihood that he actually has the disease?
Most of us would say the likelihood is very high based on the test results alone.
But what if the results were inaccurate 10% of the time?
If the false positive rate is 10%, a common number in medical tests, then it is highly unlikely our patient has the disease.
In fact, based on the prevalence of the disease and the test result, we can be 99% sure he doesn't have the disease.
This is because the odds of getting a false positive result, 1 in 10, are much higher than the odds of actually having the disease, 1 in 1,000.
But in multiple studies, physicians routinely get this wrong, overestimating the likelihood that their patient actually has the disease.
Psychologists call this the representativeness heuristic.
People assume an individual case is more representative than it actually is.
tim tompkins
That's a big thing there.
You see what he said there, like the representative thing.
rex jones
Talk about it.
tim tompkins
It's the same thing that I was telling you.
It's like why Fuentes is mad in the first place is the typical black person's like, Rex, you're racist.
unidentified
And that's because they, you don't.
tim tompkins
But when you've got enough people that have created a narrative and that pushed like that left agenda when the whole George Floyd and the thing, like that had real lasting consequences that made some white people very angry.
And it was because you took that case of the guy who had the brutality and then you said, let's go and defund the police.
You said, let's go defund the police.
And when that happened, I was like, whoa, defund the police.
I was like, we don't, we don't need that.
Why would we need to defund the police?
Like, if I look at most cops, most cops are not killing people.
rex jones
True.
tim tompkins
That's what I'm saying.
So it's the representative.
rex jones
I'm not a big fan of the police, to be honest with you, but I will agree.
It's interesting.
Police is one of the interesting, contrasting opinions.
tim tompkins
I'm just saying the police is one of those things you also take for granted.
The reason why we're not in this whole anarchy situation is because speeding ticket or somebody goes and decides to take your house and shoot you by gunpoint.
People are afraid of consequences.
That's why you don't have mass murders and stuff like that happening all the time.
rex jones
True.
tim tompkins
People are afraid of going to jail because there's somebody to enforce you going to jail.
rex jones
You don't smoke your ops anymore.
What does this country become?
tim tompkins
Exactly.
Oh, yeah.
Those are the good old days, man.
Good old days.
rex jones
Wow, wow, Wes, man.
tim tompkins
Where you go and handle your business.
unidentified
Our political views can especially suffer from an over-reliance on heuristics.
Just consider how we deal with political issues.
We'll often let our political identities and our heuristics about how right we think they are stand in lieu of important details and information we need to have an informed viewpoint.
Because our heuristics can so easily lead us to faulty conclusions, it's important to be humble about our views.
In light of our fallibility, we have to do something that doesn't come easy.
We must recognize that that gun is an uncertain place.
Miss our judgments wrong.
I'm pro to listen to opinions.
tim tompkins
We may initially consider so do you see where I'm do you see where I'm going with this, man?
You see why, like I say, X is just slop these days.
And, you know, you go on TikTok and you get the left side and like go, guys, I do a thought experiment.
Go download TikTok, go create an account and just spend like a week on it.
rex jones
We need to do that for the show.
We need to do that for the show.
And just like just the auto algorithm, we need to do that.
That's a phenomenal report.
unidentified
Okay.
rex jones
We got to do that.
tim tompkins
You're going to see.
You're going to literally see, depending on what app you are using, determines where you lean cognitively, where you lean in terms of your biases.
Like X, X is literally complete, is mostly conservative.
It's mostly right-leaning people.
And you don't have like very big Democrats that have like a large portion of the people.
rex jones
But they're on Blue Sky.
tim tompkins
They're that or they're on Instagram or they're on TikTok.
And you don't see Fuentes on like, I know he got banned off of these platforms, but like you don't see characters.
Like, look at you don't see him just like on TikTok all of a sudden because that's not where his base sits.
And if you look at Pierce Morgan, he makes a post and you say he's very left-leaning.
Look at his comments section.
Most people are roasting him, calling him names, doing all this stuff because he'll never win those people.
But then, if you were to go like look at a TikTok, you would see showering praise where everybody would be sitting there saying, Well, Fuentes is a bad guy and X, Y, and Z.
It's just all about where you exist.
And so, each side takes these little cognitive biases.
They don't take the time to research.
They don't take the time to do the deep dives like I'm trying to do on these shows.
rex jones
Phenomenal job.
And when he says deep dives, if y'all are tuning into the show, we actually have a pretty small audience usually compared to what we have.
And that's why we encourage everyone to repost the show.
For one, if you're watching this, repost the show, share the link, share the live feed on X. Please do that.
Tim puts together an excellent, it's like an hour, but it usually ends up honestly being a longer prepared segment where we go into causational thinking.
We go into the meta-level or the macro level argument, and we start talking about like actually systems of things and how things have developed or broken down.
And we definitely have a lot to go off of from tonight on building this out and having a more refined discussion.
Because as we've seen, the opposite of love isn't hatred, it's indifference, ladies and gentlemen.
People are opinionated about this.
So we should go in and get the deep dive and see exactly where the research comes from, where the numbers come from to talk about the things that we've talked about tonight.
I think it makes a fascinating.
tim tompkins
Do you know why I have such nuanced positions about these things about race?
And the smartest person on the smartest person on the other side.
I will not take that credit.
rex jones
You're a good guy, Tim.
You're a good guy.
tim tompkins
I will say I have lived in both worlds.
That's literally what it boils down to.
unidentified
Right.
tim tompkins
Coming from a household where I lived on food stamps, half my family lives in that poverty-stricken state.
My cousin robbed a bank.
Like, I know what that life is like where I've got family like that.
But then I also know what it's like to be in the classroom with really elite people and the billionaires going to school with those types of kids and being around rich kids and being the only black kid in my entire grade.
I've lived in two worlds.
rex jones
And so you might vote for Biden, so you're not black.
tim tompkins
Well, I actually, in 2020, I would have voted for Biden.
I didn't vote, but I would have voted for Biden.
rex jones
I know.
tim tompkins
I wanted, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't like what Trump did after the four years.
rex jones
And so I honestly, honestly, based.
If you had that political thinking, then you're more based than me at the time because I voted for him and I probably shouldn't have voted for him.
unidentified
Yeah.
rex jones
I should have realized that it's all fucking.
tim tompkins
I wasn't like, oh, I want Hillary over Trump during that time period.
I didn't like both.
But then when Trump got in, but shit, could you vote in 2016?
unidentified
Yeah.
rex jones
Fuck.
Well, how you must be real.
tim tompkins
I would have been 18 at that time.
unidentified
Yeah.
rex jones
Okay.
Yeah.
See, I wasn't voting.
tim tompkins
I was a senior in high school when Trump got elected.
rex jones
Damn.
Yeah.
Okay.
tim tompkins
But I didn't vote at that time period.
But all I'm saying is I've lived in two worlds.
So I have nuanced perspectives because I can understand both sides.
You'll never get me in the camp where I'm like, all I literally have debates with my own family.
Like it's, it's so weird because people would be like, you're defending the white man.
They got you drinking that Kool-Aid.
You're just brainwashed by the white people.
unidentified
It's like, no, I, I, I literally have your own opinion.
tim tompkins
I have my own opinion because I have exposure and people aren't getting exposure from different groups and they're not getting exposure from different perspectives.
rex jones
And a lot of the times like a sports team for people, right?
Like, this is my team, right?
And they don't even have like really a political ethos or identity.
Like they're a nice person.
They want nice things for people.
I'm sure your family members are all great people.
But it ultimately, if you're working, if you're a normal person that's not like an online schizo like us, you're not, you don't have to be politically aware and you don't necessarily want to be because it's a lot of it, most of it, all of it is negative, right?
So you can't then blame the people for being in that way.
You have to, it's a real gradual process.
It's like eroding.
It's like erosion.
It's like eroding a mountain.
You have to gently introduce these thought experiments and ideas and equations to people.
And only then do they figure out for themselves when they stand.
It's like you say, most people are in the center.
tim tompkins
Isn't that kind of why we created the show, man?
unidentified
Right.
tim tompkins
And that's it is literally that exposure.
We are trying to pioneer this new narrative because that is the only way that we actually get off of this Looney Tunes train.
Joining the Pierce Morgan camp and being like Nick Fuentes is a racist and all these white people and X, Y, and Z is not the answer.
New Groyper, I love you, but like becoming a Groyper and saying like we should avoid black people.
rex jones
I don't like them.
I don't agree with that.
tim tompkins
We should avoid black people and women shouldn't be able to vote and Hitler's a cool guy.
Like those things aren't the answers to our problems either.
rex jones
I would agree with you.
tim tompkins
You got to understand, we make enemies in certain rooms that we have no idea.
I literally know some very powerful people that would not do business with certain people now because of the fact of things that they have stood behind.
Fuentes has lost an entire demographic of the population just from his outspokenness.
It gets him views.
It gets him views.
It gets him clickbaits.
But I'm saying that when you do that, live by the sword, die by the sword.
And you're not going to have, you're not, you're not going to have, if he has an agenda to change the world, he's not going to be able to do it.
These people, he's not the first one to do it, man.
I'm telling you.
He's not the first person.
rex jones
He's still different.
I think you're going to be surprised with him.
I understand.
You're thinking very logical and rational and professional.
tim tompkins
And it's like you and people said the same thing about Tate.
I'm telling you.
rex jones
You and your good friends are engineers and system engineers, understand algorithms, and you look at the world like it's equation.
tim tompkins
I try to look at it as objectively and scientifically as possible and take the biases out of it because the only thing that is actually sound at the end of the day is math is the only thing that has a true equation that adds up.
There are nuances.
rex jones
Okay.
tim tompkins
But I'm just saying, in general, it's all about the facts.
rex jones
Are you having fun right now?
tim tompkins
I'm having fun.
rex jones
You too, but the audience.
tim tompkins
I'm sleeping.
rex jones
Do you realize how insane the situation is?
Do you realize how cartoonish the world we live in today?
Like the president is an orange war man, and there's conflict all around the globe, and people are fighting over TikTok and Instagram reels and memeing on each other and texting each other across continents, across globes.
People are getting things imported from realms they could never dream of before.
Like we're living in a modern era and like it, hate it.
The future is now.
The future has come.
Like this is no one ever expected this in the history of humanity.
I was driving down the road today in my car and I was thinking about this this morning.
You think about someone from 200 years ago, just the concept of an interstate highway?
tim tompkins
Thank you.
rex jones
Right.
tim tompkins
Not even, not even thought of.
Just the fact of you not having to walk or go by horseback to get from where it would take you probably a whole day to get from South Austin to where you are right now.
You know?
And it's like, at the end of the day, there are people looking out for society that just want to invent cool things.
We're just not talking about them.
We're just, don't you realize there's not enough coverage that goes for the good things that go on?
Like no one knows the new biotech that's coming out and the new things that are actually like.
rex jones
A lot of people don't like the new biotech.
tim tompkins
No, yeah, but that's like the sliver of ones that like could be turned into like a bad one.
Yeah, because the easy one to latch onto is like the neurochip.
But then we forget about like the new diseases we're solving for like rare diseases that are really affecting people that they've found cures to.
rex jones
You're talking about the gene modification.
tim tompkins
Yeah.
rex jones
Here's the thing.
So people, people, and here I'll steel man your position for you, right?
Because I'm very anti all these things, mostly in practice.
But you know what?
Like a girl at my school, she had a relative that would come visit her sometimes.
She'd talk about it a lot that had cystic fibrosis.
And cystic fibrosis, what that is, is your lungs don't clear the mucus properly.
So you're essentially drowning in your own mucus.
It's very brutal, horrible condition.
And those people, they die very early.
They die very quick.
It's a miracle if they get to be in their 20s, right?
So if we're able to use new technologies like that, the true life extension technologies to fix something, I'm 100% pro that.
I agree with that.
I think that's something that should be done.
And people can go, you're playing God, you're doing this, you're doing that.
Look, if someone, if someone can't live and they need something, then obviously the correct thing to do is to give it to them.
tim tompkins
Do you think we'll solve that?
rex jones
That's called being pro-life.
tim tompkins
Do you think we'll solve cancer eventually?
rex jones
They definitely already did that.
They definitely already did that shit.
It's too profitable.
Like, that's the thing is, I don't trust big pharma.
That's number one.
I don't, that's why, that's why I don't trust the military.
That's why I don't trust our government.
All the special interests, the people with money, the people that get the contracts, their motivation is not necessarily to invent the new greatest thing.
They've secured the contract.
They want the contract to go forward in the future.
I think a lot of innovation has gone on that hasn't been released.
tim tompkins
Yeah, well, we could go back in time and there's time periods where like, yeah, people were gatekeeping at the beginning, but ultimately the inertia of people wanting a better society.
I think it'll come, the technology comes out of it.
rex jones
Michael, Michael says, Tim, don't forget that human emotion is the only variable that you will not be able to predict.
tim tompkins
You're right.
rex jones
What's your thoughts on that?
tim tompkins
No, no, no.
He is completely right.
The nuances of human emotion is the one thing that is very hard to predict.
But then also people utilize, it is sort of predictable in itself, too, because you use the not only just cognitive biases, but you know how people can react to specific things.
It's the emotions that actually lead to the control in itself, too.
It's when you're angry, it's when you're hyped up, it's when you're most vulnerable to believe a specific narrative is when they, when they capture the eyeballs and they make you feel, it's when they make you feel fear, is when they can make you go and do whatever you want.
That is the they actually use the emotion against the human to begin with when it comes to these things.
And that's how you control.
And all I'm just saying, go read like a book like the 48 laws of power.
And I wish like sometimes I wish I don't think 48 to understand or to understand how evil laws are true.
Yeah, laws of human nature, 48 laws of power.
They teach you about human nature and you're going to see patterns.
rex jones
And the thing is, is like if well, the pattern that I got from reading that book was that there are people that are that have dark triad personality traits, like being sociopathic, narcissistic, or psychopathic.
And those people have an inherent advantage because they don't have to deal with the moral system.
And that book is basically an attack or a defense manual against those tactics, but those tactics are imperative in human nature because that predatory class, they universally take power, right?
tim tompkins
Yeah, because it's very easy because majority people aren't thinking like that and they're very trusty in a specific thing.
So the guy who decides to use the dark behavior on Robert Greene.
rex jones
He's a damn good author.
unidentified
Very good.
He is.
rex jones
I like his 33 strategies of war book.
It's a very, very good book.
I have that in my car right now.
tim tompkins
I don't take the 48 laws of power verbatim.
There's certain things that I don't agree with him on.
And like he, he basically is like, essentially, he's like, have no friends, always look at it.
rex jones
I like your hands.
I like law number six.
That's my favorite law.
Is that use absence to increase respect and honor?
That worked for me.
I took a little break.
I'm telling you, sometimes you just step away for a little bit and you come back.
tim tompkins
100%.
rex jones
So like there, they're definitely good things you can learn, but there's also a lot of predatory stuff.
tim tompkins
100%.
rex jones
But you have to be aware of that because people will come after you and treat you that way.
Do you want to take calls tonight?
We've been here for a while.
Three days, no sleep.
New Groyper wants to refute you.
tim tompkins
Do I feel like debating him right now?
rex jones
And we will, you can call in on Sunday if we don't do it, but we are running.
tim tompkins
I already know that it's going to, it's going to run into an hour.
You're not catching me at peak cognitive level right now because I am sleep deprived and I don't want to do a Sunday?
Yeah, I don't want to say something I don't mean live on air.
But I will say that like, I'm not trying to dismiss some of the points that you have.
I'm just trying to get you to take a step back because at some point I was also deep into whatever I had believed at a specific point.
rex jones
You talk about that a lot.
And you change your mind because information.
tim tompkins
Yeah, it's all about the information.
And the more information you get, whether you get it from us on the show or whether you spend the time going and researching, we're all susceptible to these cognitive biases.
I am susceptible.
I'm not any different than the rest of you guys.
But what I have tried to do is make myself aware that these things do exist and then look for those examples and say, can I do a little bit more to just understand?
And look, X no longer fact checks anymore.
I don't see, I don't see community notes anymore.
I don't like I'm finding myself getting upset because I'm looking at like, have you, do you know who like unusual Wells is?
rex jones
Like I follow them, I think.
tim tompkins
They post a bunch of baloney now where like they get a bunch of clickbaits, but then their statements are not actually backed by facts.
There's there's a several amount of people that use these people to get their news.
And it's just like, it's just, man, I'm sick and tired of people not just taking a little bit more time before they make the post and just post something that's real.
And I'm, and I would rather spend my time making a thread that's five, five posts that you guys read, but I know I've spent some time doing the research and give you guys some knowledge than to just give myself a little quick, give myself a little quick boost of dopamine by giving you guys like breaking news.
This happened and all white people are racist.
And then I just get a bunch of people that like comment and give me a bunch of engagement.
rex jones
You know what?
The show is doing bad.
We need to start, we need to start going that way and just have full like racial fights on the show.
And then we'll be rewarded for promoting the division.
And that's, you know, even if it isn't direct, even if it is just the algorithm, I mean, there's something deep to point to there.
I mean, like, that, that's how you, that's how you make, that's how you make money ultimately in the modern digital world.
tim tompkins
Well, we're rewarding people now for this.
People have figured out how the algorithm works.
It's all about how you keep the people on the app.
rex jones
And negative news is a lot more popular, like, but not, not that people like it, but people are more willing to look at it because it's more interesting to them than positive news.
So you're already from the perspective of distributing information, you're already at a deficit there because people are more likely, not just if it's fed to them, they're also more likely to look for it.
tim tompkins
Yeah.
Oh, tell me, thought experiment.
Okay.
Give me like two good pieces of news that you saw in the news.
rex jones
Oh, fuck.
That's fucking hard, dude.
tim tompkins
Yeah.
You see, like if you can't come off the top of your head, it doesn't.
rex jones
Let's see.
But if I ask you, I think I can do it if I try really hard.
tim tompkins
Give me two pieces of back.
rex jones
Give me 30 seconds.
Well, we went over all that.
Yeah, exactly.
We already did that.
Oh, man.
Yeah.
I mean, you make an excellent point.
I can't, I literally, I'm thinking of things right now.
I'm trying to find an answer to that question because, you know, realistically, I should be able to find an answer to that question, right?
tim tompkins
Like, you know, any new technology that's come out that's like helpful to humans now and the things that we just, what you just talked about was pretty positive, right?
rex jones
And, you know, some people would say the lab grown meat is good.
I would say growing off immortal cancer cell lines, maybe not so good, but like there, it's hard.
tim tompkins
That's like low-hanging.
rex jones
And then everything is profit-driven, right?
Anything good is profit-driven.
There aren't people doing things for the sake of being awesome.
They're people doing things because it's awesome.
Plus, it makes a shit ton of money.
tim tompkins
Also, you got to be careful about some of the things that people come out with, like MSNBC.
You can't, yeah.
You, you can go and pay the editors to essentially write a good piece of article as like publicity and you pay them a good amount of money and they'll make a whole post about you.
They'll make a whole video and you can make it seem like whatever you're doing is like fantastic, the best thing since like sliced bread.
So you also have to be very careful about those things.
But look, as long as I exist and as long as I'm doing this show, I will do my best to break things down for you guys and just give you guys the honest opinions.
If you guys follow me on X, I try to do a thread at least a few times a week that actually breaks down something that's happening in the news out there.
That's like, and I go deeper than what the surface level post is, where I spend the time finding the pictures, finding the graphs, those types of things.
So I'm going to continue doing that, even if I'm shouting in the dark, because at the end of the day, man, that's the only thing that I can see if we get enough people doing just that.
rex jones
Well, I agree with you.
And to elaborate on that point and to make it further, and we agree 100% on that, it is people becoming politically aware.
It is people becoming socially aware.
It is people becoming aware of the world and what's actually happening because of the fact that everything is so negative and fed to be so negative.
People are, you know, by the nature of the situation, discouraged from actually perceiving or pursuing truth, right?
Because it's a painful thing to do.
tim tompkins
It's a lot of work.
rex jones
It's a lot of work.
Yeah.
tim tompkins
Your brain takes shortcuts.
unidentified
Right.
rex jones
Right.
And the heuristics that you're talking about.
But at the end of the day, to form a to form a worldview, I can point to every position that I hold and I could say, okay, this is why I believe X thing.
And that could be wrong.
It could be misinformed, but at least it is built on some sort of data bank or wealth of information.
A lot of people literally don't know, don't know that Africa is not a country.
People think that Africa is a country, right?
tim tompkins
They sure will make a post that sounds very convincing.
rex jones
You got situations like that.
You've got people that don't know what the three branches of government are.
I think it's like one third of Americans, maybe it's higher now that don't don't know what that is.
And then those people vote and it's a whole thing.
You have people that have rights and are citizens and are supposed to be active and involved in their community and in the betterment of their country.
But because of the degradation of our society over time, we've reached a point where people almost take pride in not being informed, going, I'm not into politics.
I'm not into XYZ.
I'm not into this issue.
I won't even discuss it because it hurts my brain.
I'd rather watch the football.
I'd rather movie.
I'd rather watch Netflix series.
Why would I even think about things?
Why would I even try to solve them?
The world is so broken.
No, If you have that mindset, then it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and the world is broken.
We reject that here on the gray area.
And that's why Tim goes into such detail.
And even if you disagree with him, this is data that you have to conflict with that.
You have to rationalize and reinforces or degrades your position based on the information that he's giving you.
tim tompkins
Dude, I literally have to challenge my own beliefs on a daily basis.
Right.
And you know, as I research things, there's things that I thought I knew.
And then I realized, oh, I really don't know shit about it.
rex jones
And I've seen your opinions evolve on certain issues.
And that's because you're a rational, competent actor and you're trying to figure out what's actually going on.
tim tompkins
And someone like Piers Morgan, never going to do that because he'll defend his position, whether it's wrong till the day he dies.
And I'll also say Fuentes does the same thing in a certain way.
rex jones
And I guess you're making the argument those are both paid positions.
In different ways.
Capital.
tim tompkins
Yeah, I'll say, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's more, it's easier for you to keep your base, keep the things going.
If you hold a particular niche and you hold that perspective for a very long time, because then you can build a community around the ideology.
And here's the thing.
It's not that he doesn't believe the things now and that he's like fake all of a sudden.
You can trick yourself into believing anything.
rex jones
Excellent point.
Excellent point.
That's the best point.
tim tompkins
You do anything long enough, guys.
Your brain is neuroplastic.
Okay.
You start like there, there's literally trials where people can sit there and like say they're somebody and like brainwash themselves into believing they're somebody that they're not just strictly by like training their brain to continuously treat that behavior over and over again.
So I think at a certain point, somebody can start off being like, I don't want to call them disingenuous, but somebody can really start off at the beginning, just doing it in a way, like just to get the numbers, get the eyeballs, get the traction.
And then eventually, as the other things come out and there's other people that step up and it becomes an echo chamber, then they really start believing.
rex jones
I think his position was that when he was 18, is he realizes I'm not allowed to have these positions.
And I see it from a radical free speech perspective as a system is trying to control me.
I reject it.
And that's why I call it gain of function research.
Like they created him.
The environment created Nick.
tim tompkins
And that's why you're hitting the nail on the head.
That's why I was saying that is what marginalizing people and putting people down does.
You build anger after a certain amount of time.
And what happens is you breed.
Now, he's not Hitler, but if you look at the video, he says, well, maybe we should see what it's like when white people are unhinged because that's what Hitler represents.
And maybe that's the thing.
And it's like, look, anger unchecked.
That is what happens.
Hitler happens.
rex jones
It's a fact.
tim tompkins
And people trying to sit there and refute that and not agree with the numbers and stuff like that.
unidentified
Right.
rex jones
But there's also a reason why it's popular, right?
And to a lesser extent, why Nick Fuentes is popular, right?
Is because people get told while they're living in a declining civilization, they get told that things are good.
And even more than that, they get told they're not allowed to say that things are not good.
tim tompkins
But then don't you see like the knee-jerk reaction is to just now swing to the complete opposite side and just take the opposite position?
When I'm challenged on one of my belief systems, I don't sit there and go to like radical style behavior and just being like, because look, don't crash out.
I don't crash out.
Okay, here's a fun story, not to, not to, to, uh, not to get into the weeds with this one, but did you know, like, back in high school, dude, I was afraid to, I've never really talked about this openly.
I was afraid to walk the street in the town that I used to live in back in high school.
White people, I, I, I lived in, I was the only black person in my entire grade.
Uh, I was the only, uh, the, the population of that city was like 0.001% black.
And I was just like, I felt self-conscious walking.
And like, there were times where like I could be walking and like, you just see like the, you, you kind of walk by the white lady and she kind of like clutches her bag just a little bit tighter.
Things like that.
Or like, you've never been in a store where like somebody sees you like walking down the aisle and they purposely take another, uh, they, they move to the other side because they know like they don't want to deal with like, like I'm telling you, and it's not a coincidence.
rex jones
Like there's literally literally that that's and that's a unique human experience that based on your background that you have to deal with that I don't have to deal with and Fuentes never experienced that too.
So it's like for me, I will say I kind of look like a burglar now.
So they they do kind of get scared of me.
tim tompkins
But you've never sat in your car and the cop pulls up and asks you, What are you doing when you're sitting outside in the driveway of your own house?
rex jones
No, like that's crazy.
tim tompkins
Those things didn't happen, but it happened to me.
It happened to my mom.
They're like, Are you, do you live here?
Are you supposed to be here?
It's like, why are these even questions?
And so, right.
There are black people that have lived through this.
rex jones
That's very messed up.
There are black people.
tim tompkins
Well, here's the thing: there are black people that have lived through those experiences.
And you know what they did with that experience?
They took it and internalized it.
And they took a paintbrush and just said, Rex, you're a racist.
rex jones
Right.
Right.
And then vice versa.
Same type of thing.
tim tompkins
Thank you.
That is exactly where I'm trying to get to the point.
rex jones
So, and we got to move past that.
We got to evolve.
tim tompkins
Take the race out of it.
rex jones
We got to get to a better point.
tim tompkins
That's all I'm saying, guys.
rex jones
I agree with that.
And that is, that's a very pro-human message.
And although we don't agree on everything, we can agree on that.
Everyone deserves to have a level of dignity.
And that is definitely not provided, especially in certain situations with certain biases on people.
And that's why, you know, I was very upset to see him just call himself a racist because he should have called himself a Christian.
And he should have moved on from that because it is very childish.
Ultimately, I do view it that way.
So, just in closing, we've been talking for a while.
We're both tired.
I have to take a Biden and you're sleepy.
tim tompkins
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I got to that flow state you were talking about.
rex jones
No, we're having a good show.
And like, this is the thing: please.
tim tompkins
I wish there were more people that heard that message.
rex jones
Well, we're going to, we're going to, we'll retweet it.
tim tompkins
I really felt that one in my soul.
rex jones
This has been a great show, and we're going to clip all of this stuff so that y'all can re-watch it and we'll post it.
And, you know, I saw you had a, I saw you had a thread that did pretty well.
You know, I think the algorithm is starting to like you.
Just got to pick up, you know.
But look, follow Truism Tim on X if you don't already.
He does great work on the show and he really puts a lot of like a lot of blood, sweat, and tears in putting together the present, uh, the uh, the segments on Sunday.
tim tompkins
And it kind of just the last thing I'll say: it kind of sucks.
Um, the like, I know we're the new guys starting, and we, we have to allow the time, and like there are people that came before us that started the process, right?
Some parked out my career, but yeah, you had to restart, but that, but you restarting is probably the only way that you and I could have done this show, to be honest.
Go ahead, I interrupt your, but all I'm saying is, is like there are people that have already beat us to the race as far as getting the message out there, and they have the platform to say whatever, and they're not having these conversations.
rex jones
It's a slop conversation, they're having slop conversations, they're having culture war.
Ooh, they're not talking about societal systems and problems.
tim tompkins
And I'm not throwing shade at InfoWars, I'm not throwing shade at your dad, but there are some people there are some people that go on there and continue to push that, continue to push that.
And it's like, look, how long are we going to, how long are we going to go with these narratives before we have new things?
I know, but I love, I love, I love InfoWars.
rex jones
That's right.
We love, we love you.
We love you.
tim tompkins
All I'm saying is, is that I want to introduce the gray area perspective.
That's it.
I say you guys can agree with me, not agree with me.
It is totally different.
rex jones
That's what the show's about.
And look, do you want to just hear a reinforcement of your current position or do you want to hear another perspective?
And that's what we offer.
I offer it from one lens.
Tim offers it from another lens.
tim tompkins
Is this refreshing for you?
rex jones
Is this, yeah, it's very refreshing.
I mean, this is the type of broadcast I always wanted to do because, you know, it's really hard to have a constructive conversation when everyone's just agreeing with each other.
And I think that's a big problem with Echo Chamber and just America in general.
tim tompkins
Or you try to do the pierce where you just try to like trap people with questions and stuff.
I don't do that.
rex jones
My thing is that I don't like the left-right dichotomy.
I don't enjoy that.
And you hold positions that are more right-wing than me.
You hold positions that are more left-wing than me.
Traditional, whatever the fuck that means.
It doesn't mean anything.
That's the news flash.
All the right, left, center.
It's all bullshit, right?
At the end of the day.
But I believe things that would be considered more left that you don't believe.
And then I believe things that would be considered more right that you don't believe.
Ultimately, what the gray area is about is about killing all that shit.
And it's about letting it go.
tim tompkins
And it's about bringing the facts.
It's about bringing the history so that you cut through and you figure out like, okay, maybe I was wrong in this area.
rex jones
Well, it's beyond even that.
tim tompkins
It's wrong in that area.
rex jones
It's beyond even that.
It's realizing like we're being played by interests that want us to hold a very narrow, rigid perception and sense of ideals.
Like you're a Democrat or you're a Republican.
You're on the left.
You're on the right.
And that's what I cannot stand because I just don't think it works that way.
I don't like to have to go with the side that aligns with my pet issue more.
tim tompkins
Yeah.
rex jones
Right.
I don't enjoy that.
I think that actually is the great sin of the American Project is that we've created that.
tim tompkins
Yeah.
And the last thing I want to do before we hop off, anyone in the chat, I don't, I don't really, we don't really have the ability all the time to talk to you guys.
And like Rex and I talk off air and we have conversations.
So I know where it ends, but I'm very curious.
Like, does anyone resonate a little bit?
Like, even if you've never messaged before, let me know if any of this at least pushed you in a direction where you were like, maybe I have a different view on this now.
Like, does this stuff help?
Like, I know I'm speaking to avoid sometimes and we're just having a conversation.
I can't see you guys.
rex jones
Main thing is I just want it to be interesting because I find these other broadcasts to not be interesting at all.
And like someone in the chat, Jackson in the chat says that our like we're overlapping in our views.
Yeah, that's because we've talked to each other for like, I think it's like close to 100 hours at this point.
We've come to things that we agree on, right?
We've still things that we disagree on.
I think some of those things will never change.
But ultimately, I know that Tim is willing to have an honest conversation about these things.
And I know what he believes as he knows what I believe as well.
And that's the fun part of the show.
tim tompkins
100%, man.
rex jones
And because like people that are doing it, like if you're at like the Blaze studios or something, if you work for like Glenn Beck, you're getting paid to like be a right-wing broadcaster or something.
If you hold that perspective, like whatever the perspective is, you're holding the perspective to get a check, right?
Regardless of your audience or what's not.
tim tompkins
That's the sad part.
We wouldn't be able to say like 90% of the stuff we're saying right now.
rex jones
Right.
tim tompkins
If we were on one of those shows.
rex jones
But notice how we went on InfoWars and we were basically able to say the same things that we're saying no.
Yeah, isn't that interesting?
They pulled up everything you wanted, didn't they?
tim tompkins
They pulled up everything.
No, you know, no one came to us.
His dad didn't, I didn't even get to meet your dad.
rex jones
It doesn't work that way.
tim tompkins
No one said anything to me.
They asked us specifically, they said, what do you want to talk about?
What do you want to bring up?
And then Rex is like, let's just play it by ear.
And we didn't have an agenda, dude.
rex jones
We were watching if you haven't seen it.
I'll repost that tonight.
tim tompkins
It's reposted, but then it's also on Gray Area Talks.
Just go look at the YouTube.
Look at the pinned X account.
You'll see it first thing on Gray Area Talks.
You can go watch that full segment.
Very fun segment to do.
And I really hope we do more of those.
I appreciate those guys for letting us on there that day and hopefully more to come.
But I love this segment.
rex jones
Right.
I think this has been great.
I think we've talked a lot about unity.
We also talked about a lot of division, but where that comes from, more importantly, I've had a great time.
This is episode 28 of the Gray Area Live.
Really want y'all to tune in with us Sunday.
We're going to do a phenomenal show.
Probably a prepared segment on this.
We'll definitely take calls and we'll talk about it.
I know people like New Grover want to get in there.
We're going to have that discussion.
We're just kind of like watching New Grow.
tim tompkins
If you want to talk about the Sunday, we definitely can.
I'm not saying no.
rex jones
I was taking old people to get haircuts all day.
That's what I did today.
And that took a long time.
tim tompkins
I'm running on one hour of sleep.
So I want to give you the proper time that you deserve in order to make your arguments and the counter arguments.
But thank you guys for tonight.
Tune in with us Sunday.
I will be doing a deep dive.
Got to catch up on some sleep, but the game never dies.
We're going to put in the work.
Doesn't matter how we're feeling.
We're dedicated to this at the end of the day, and we do it for you guys out there.
So appreciate you guys all.
unidentified
Yes.
rex jones
Thank you for being here with us tonight.
God bless and good luck.
tim tompkins
Oh, hold on.
Last thing.
Ooh, we have, I forgot to shout this person out because Infowars fan made that new intro for me.
He's been great.
He just came out of nowhere and just like, hey, look, I want to make some stingers for you guys.
And I just like those little things.
rex jones
Phenomenal community.
tim tompkins
I appreciate those.
He did not have to do that.
He did not have to take the time to do something like that.
And he sent it to me.
I was like, wow, this is amazing.
And then I just took it, edited it, blended it into something that we could use.
And it's just, you're going to see even the outro adds a little bit of what he did.
So shout out to him.
I appreciate every single one of you guys that does stuff like that.
So thank you guys.
rex jones
And keep and keep in mind, and keep in mind, we do this show for you guys.
And we feel the same exact way for someone that reposts our stuff, for someone that comments under our stuff, someone that just engages with us.
Anyone and everyone that does that, thank you for being here with us tonight.
God bless.
Good luck.
This is the 28th episode of the Gray Area Live.
We thank you.
unidentified
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