Jason Williams reveals Shaq's alleged lack of personal charity while defending the NBA against claims of officiating bias, arguing that reduced flagrant calls reflect a shift toward offense rather than softness. He contrasts LeBron James' all-around dominance with Michael Jordan's superior competitive edge and recounts his own turbulent career, from being ejected in China for kicking the ball to signing a $43 million Grizzlies deal influenced by his father. Williams also dismisses rumors regarding Dwight Howard's sexuality, emphasizing that focus on winning matters more than personal life, before concluding with anecdotes about international travel mishaps involving edibles and exotic foods. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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A Special Relationship00:10:00
I remember when I first started comedy, my dream was to one day headline Madison Square Garden and I would tell people that and they would all usually roll their eyes or they would like they kind of laugh at the notion of it.
I told you that that was my dream.
I said one day I want to headline Madison Square Garden and I remember you saw what you were doing and you looked me in the eyes and you said I'll see you there.
And it was like really important to me because I felt like I wasn't the only person that believed it could happen.
Wow.
And I know as you get older, you know, sometimes things become hard to remember, but I remember everything.
I remember all the time you put into me and all the effort that you made and how much you always believed in me and supported me.
And this made all the difference.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So the reason I brought you here is, yeah, I wanted to say thank you for being the most amazing dad ever.
And the other reason I want to bring you here is because I wanted to let you know that when my tour comes to New York, I'm going to be headlining Madison Square Garden.
Wow.
So I'll see you there.
You definitely will see me.
Love you so much.
Hey.
Yes.
That's awesome.
That was really cool.
Bravo to Vala who made that video.
Vala.
Absolutely amazing job.
Amazing.
Great song choice, Mark.
Vala gave you credit for that.
Appreciate that.
Shifty, thank you so much for filming.
And that, yeah, that was awesome.
Today was, we're recording this Monday, obviously.
And the Jason Williams episode will be, you know, in a few minutes, but we just wanted to maybe reflect on Madison Square Garden.
And yeah, today was a really cool, awesome, awesome day.
Thank you, Ben.
It's a lot, man.
I think I just kind of like suppressed all the feelings for a long time to kind of get through it.
So then, you know, once I put it out there, I was able to kind of feel those emotions.
And it was just really cool.
Those like old videos.
I don't know.
It's amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was just, I don't know.
There's this video Vala showed me.
I guess I didn't even know this, but like after my mom gave birth to me, my dad took off.
My mom went back to work.
So like for the first six months, it was just like me and him.
Yeah.
Just five.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
So I probably would like my mom if it didn't go that way.
Someone's got to pay the bills.
She's the reason you hustled, dude.
Back to work.
Joke.
I love my mom so much.
She's amazing.
And congrats on becoming a U.S. citizen mom.
That was incredible.
But yeah, it was just, I don't know, it was just really, yeah, it was just really awesome.
Really awesome.
And the feedback has been great.
And yeah, my dad, it was great to say those things to my dad.
You know, obviously my dad has memory issues, short-term memory.
He's not really there.
And so maybe it's more for me to get them out to him.
Like at least I know that I've said it to him.
I've said it to him every single time I see him, but like it's there and he can watch it anytime he wants to or my mom can play it for him.
But yeah, like 40 years, never took a day off, man.
He just, he was there.
And I'm the luckiest dude in the world because of it.
So did your parents watch the video?
My mom did, loved it.
She was really happy about it.
And I don't know if my dad has yet.
I imagine she'll play it for him.
But, you know, yeah.
I don't know where he'll be with it.
She was too busy working to be there with him.
Exactly.
Yeah.
She hard worked.
She's a citizen now.
She doesn't have to work as hard.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Divorces my dad immediately.
Wow.
So yeah, anyway.
Thank you guys for that.
Has the feedback's been cool.
Anyone specific reached out there.
You're like oh wow, that's really cool.
This person hit me up.
I think a lot of people who, like either you know their dad is is on the decline or their dad had just passed, like a lot of those people hit me up and, like you know, it's a really special relationship did, and I think the video just kind of taps into that, into those feelings.
So they did and that's always really cool, you know, and um yeah, it's just, it's just wild the thing that you posted leading up to with your dad, the pictures you guys have awesome wearing the collar shirts.
Yeah like obviously, Msg is like one of the most famous arenas in the world.
Yeah, but it means more to New Yorkers, like that, oh yeah, and like a really like a special way.
You know, it's funny.
I went to Msg with you one time and you told me to wear a suit and I never knew why I did.
We got free nick tickets and they were great seats, but I was like I thought we were meeting people afterward and then I just went home and I was like i'll put on a suit to watch some guys in basketball sharks run around.
Yeah, to be the only people, but I didn't know where that came from for 10 years or whatever is when you were filming that.
Uh, the hockey show yeah, you got really good tickets in thrill.
So this whole time i've been like I guess I just wore a suit to msg.
If your suits are anything like your clothes, you were the first in the Steve Harvey suits.
Oh yeah, I know what it was, but the big nail like a caterer with some baggy ass clothes yeah, it was.
Uh yeah, it's weird, my dad had no rules really growing up.
There was like very few things you know, apologize when you do something wrong.
Uh, do your homework, and uh, that was pretty much it.
And then one of them was just like hey, if we go here, he didn't really listen to either one of those.
Okay and um, but yeah, he was like yeah, we got to wear a college shirt and he would go over these things like yeah, you know, Ali fought Frazier here and he would like say all these like great things that happened like Marciano for Lewis and uh, and yeah, it was just like I was like okay man, all right, I didn't get it.
Yeah, I was like all right, you know, if you say so, then we'll do it and um, and yeah, I guess it was just really special to him, it's special to us.
I mean, did you feel that way growing up about the Garden?
Like yeah, it's just I feel that way and i'm not even, I can't even imagine.
Yeah yeah, I mean I prefer the Amway Arena in Orlando.
I think that I that one's more special.
Not even bullshitting dude, the American Airlines Center in Dallas doesn't mean as much to me as the Garden.
The Garden is the fuck, it's the Mecca.
They call it the Mecca.
Yeah, and I can't even imagine and no Disin, this is a slight to you, but growing up in Manhattan, you probably walked by the thing so many times your entire life.
Yeah, the idea of headline in there is the dream yeah, and I thought the promo you did is, and I think what's cool is, as we are all growing up, we're kind of letting people in more.
Yeah, and I thought this was cool that you let people you had this amazing dude, anybody who saw his vows and what he said to his dad at the vow we all cried and just showcasing a little bit of that.
That was just so cool that you let the world see that on this, I don't know and this is cool how it ties in with the show as well.
Yeah yeah, cool times with the show that people will see.
Yeah yeah, the people who've seen the show, I think they'll get that and those of you don't.
I hope you guys all come out and uh yeah, I don't know.
We just wanted to touch on that a little bit in the beginning.
I think i'm still processing it all, but like it's literally been, i've i've said it in the caption, but i've thought about every single day, like there's a moment every single day.
It could be for two seconds, it could be for 30 minutes, but I think about it and I think it just all just smacked Me in my face once I put it out there.
Like, I was like, whoa, this is a reality.
That's your Roman Empire.
That's my dude.
You haven't thought about the Roman Empire in like two months.
It's just been filled up with MSG times.
This is my Coliseum.
But now you can get back to Roman Empire thoughts.
Yeah, thank God.
So it is the Coliseum.
If and when the American Empire, they're just studying about it in history books.
You'll hear about MSG more than any other sports arena on the face of the planet.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or at least in American history.
That's that's the one.
I'm at a loss for words.
I'm not usually like this.
But amazing video.
Thank you guys so much for the roles you guys have played in getting here, which are instrumental.
It doesn't happen without you guys.
Thank you, Miles.
And just thank you, everybody, listening, watching.
And yeah, it just means the world to me.
And I'm so fucking grateful.
And I hope we get to see you guys all there because it's going to be special.
I promise you that.
Man, I remember you got a little emotional at the end of your Radio City shows.
I cannot wait to see you cry at the end of these MSG shows.
Wait, what full ends?
I think it's going to be the whole show.
I think it's going to be an hour of him weeping, just being like, guys.
Yeah.
Tell a joke.
He's like, I can't right now.
I don't know if people can tell at the end of their radio sitting you guys.
Where are you two from?
Just pouring tears.
You know where I'm from?
Austin Place.
I'm from New York City, bro.
You got to bark tickets outside the arena.
You got to do it.
Before the show, be like, tickets.
You got tickets.
We'll save five tickets.
I'll do it with it.
But yeah, anyway, we'll get to the next episode.
Just wanted to, you know, take a moment and reflect on that.
And once again, thank you guys all so much, man.
Love you, Cross.
Love you guys.
Congratulations for helping our brother get there.
Absolutely.
And I genuinely mean that.
Like anybody who's ever shared a clip or shared an episode or brought friends out to shows and anybody who's done that, you know, pure altruism has changed my life.
I think it's changed all of our lives.
And to be able to get to this, like, and I'm sure that people watch right now, you have something that you're thinking about that you want.
And you think about that every single day.
And 16 years will go by.
And eventually when you realize that it's going to happen, whew, it's going to be a profound experience, man.
Just enjoy it.
I hope it happens to every single one of you, man.
Yeah.
This is your Izzy moment.
I hope you can all experience this feeling one time.
Yeah.
I genuinely hope.
Yeah.
And I can't wait for you guys too.
And it's going to be awesome.
And I'm going to sit there with you while you guys are crying.
And it's going to be great.
It's going to be fucking great.
Anyway, let's get to the episode.
We literally got one of my childhood heroes and someone I've looked up to.
I think we've all, you know, growing up watching basketball.
This guy's an absolute legend.
And he's as great as you think he is.
Bro, it is so nice to admire somebody and meet them and then they exceed the expectations.
I told him that this is a hero I'm glad I met, which doesn't happen often.
The Izzy Moment00:09:08
Facts.
So enjoy the one and only the white chocolate Jason Williams.
He was telling us about the technical in China.
Them referees.
The dude that's their coach is like the national team coach or he might be the leader of their army or some early in the game.
They're probably going to call offensive foul.
Sure enough.
Rest is cheating.
As soon as they call offensive foul, my dumb ass boots this ball commotionable.
Next thing you know, boom, the ball is right back in my hand.
Well, what do I do?
I got to kick further than that.
They think I was bullshit.
Now I'm kicked out of the game.
This is a charity game?
Yeah.
Next thing you know, the ball's to China.
Whoever that is.
Balls to China.
Talk to the rest.
I think they end up letting me play in the second half.
I was fearful the other day.
We won't take my passport though.
Yeah, you could be on high duck.
Last place you want to be locked up in China, I think.
What do you think would happen?
Fill you up with duck sauce?
Well, no.
I'm not.
Ciddy Claxon was fast as hell.
Like, I'm on a gold tooth, bro.
It didn't matter.
I was fucked as a hiccup.
I was high as giraffe.
Which is a dish in China.
China for me is like a seven-day top.
What happens after that?
I start to die.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to Flavor.
And today I'm incredibly excited because we have Bell, West Virginia's finest.
We have quite possibly the greatest passer in the history of the NBA and the greatest quarterback Randy Moss has ever played for.
We got Jason Moore.
We got Jason Wayne.
I appreciate that.
I'm going to say I'm going to be a close second to Tom Brady, bro.
You think?
I'm going to give Tom Brady the nod, right?
He's so humble.
So humble.
He's got too many rings, bro, not to give him the credit, right?
That's fair.
Now, I have to clear up some folklore about you.
All right.
Okay.
Folklore might be hard to clear up.
Okay, exactly.
It could be complete, you know, fairy tales.
It could be real stuff.
But throughout history, obviously, I've been watching this since I'm a kid.
I literally went to go see you play the Nets.
My dad got tickets.
I remember going to see you playing.
For a New Yorker to go to Jersey back then, lifelong.
That's like taking a flight almost.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And yeah.
It is.
This is big.
So, and you only scored six points, which is really annoying.
You made a big trip for six points.
But listen, high score game.
Okay.
Is this true?
You used to do drive-by paintball shootings of Chris Weber's home in Sacramento.
I'm going to plead a fifth.
God fucking.
I mean, his house probably caught some bullets along the way.
But that was the most.
That's the most country-ass white boy drive-by you could possibly do.
You know what I mean?
And he was probably with me on some of them drive-bys.
I was just trying to get family members there.
I got a good story about it.
We were doing that one time as a security guard at the Los Lagos in Sacramento, Granite Bay.
Shout out.
We had a good time there, other than this one incident.
So we couldn't get in the gate or something.
So we decided we're going to go down and do our thing at the security guard at night, right?
So we got these two little scooters.
We're riding on these scooters by we dropped them over there in the dark and we're walking through the woods or whatever.
We got the paintballs and we got rocks.
Boom, boom, we did it.
And here we go take off.
We left the scooters.
C. Webb's shoe falls off.
Oh, no.
And we get there and we stop and I'm like, bro, where's your shoe?
He said, it fell off.
I said, you got to go get it.
You're the only motherfucker in here to wear the side of these shoes.
Yeah, come on, bro.
But we got away with it.
Nobody got in trouble.
So this is rookie year?
Yeah, rookie year.
Yeah.
That was the most fun time, I think, because it was a blessing in disguise because we only played, it was lockout season.
We only played 50 games.
So we would play Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you know, in three different time zones.
Yeah.
And we really didn't have any time for practice or anything like that.
So what I say is a blessing in disguise.
I really didn't learn much.
It was just coaches threw me out there and I got to do what I got to do.
So, like I said, a blessing in the skies.
I had fun and I wouldn't change it for the world, though.
Okay.
Second piece of folklore.
When you're still playing some rec league ball, there's a play that you call called Calling Blue.
What is Calling Blue?
Man, Blue, I don't think Blue will work in too many men's leagues without fights.
For instance, if most of the men's leagues that I played in, I had a pretty good team.
I mean, I knew what I was doing a little bit, but I'd always keep two shooters with me and some athlete to play D or whatever.
I mean, guys would guard me.
You refused to play D. Two shooters with me.
There you go.
It's good shit.
Good shit.
So if we get up by like 50 or 60, another team's still talking shit or whatnot, we're going to call blue.
And blue, what blue is, as soon as they score, you bring the ball in.
You're on my team.
You throw it right to me in the corner.
I'm shooting a three in their bucket.
So he's scoring on his own.
If I call blue, we're scoring on the other team.
We're scoring for the other team.
Why?
This is because they're talking shit.
And we're already up 60.
You still can't be.
Disrespect.
Right.
Now, is it true?
Totally.
Is it true?
You once got fouled while shooting on your own basket.
Yeah, that was like, I think that was before Blue even was created.
But I remember like it was yesterday.
My agent was in town.
This was like a pick, like a rec league in a men's league.
And I told my agent, I said, look, I'm going to give you the other team.
I'm going to give you the other team, the spread 72.
We only play in two 20-minute halves running clock, right?
So they're up.
They got to say, we got to beat them by 72.
I look over like, there's like six minutes left, and we're like up by like, I want to say 86, something like that.
Yeah, yeah.
We start shooting.
I start shooting.
But it only happens if the other team's talking shit.
If the other team just takes the ass whooping and goes on about their business, we'll be fine.
Just be by.
How much will you beat them by then?
Oh, 50.
We'll try to be.
It depends on what our team wants to do that night.
We're just there to get.
Oh, I'm sorry.
We're just there to get some conditioning in, right?
We call blue when we're up.
What an asshole thing is that.
Guys, we're not really taking it seriously.
We're just trying to get some cardio in.
So let's everybody be polite about that.
That's right.
That's right.
So I'm doing blue, and we're shooting on the other team's basket.
And now the other team's kind of kind of getting mad that I'm shooting.
And like the third or fourth one, they come and try to play D and don't let me get the ball in bounds.
So finally get it in.
I'm dribbling up the court towards my basket.
And I turn around real quick and shoot it back in their basket.
And buddy fouled me.
Well, the ball went in.
Now I'm looking at the ref.
What are you going to call?
I'm ready.
That's right.
So I'm like, what are you going to call?
He's like, I don't really want to call.
So he just comes over to me and says, Jason, cut the bullshit.
So what I think is, what do y'all think should happen in that situation?
I think you shoot a free throw.
That's a free throw.
Because you don't know what's going on.
I know the bucket went in.
Yeah.
But on whose basketball?
You're shooting?
On their basket.
You shoot the basket at their free throw.
You should shoot.
No, you got to shoot on your free throw.
What I think happens is I think the three-point counts for them.
But you get to shoot a free throw.
Correct.
On my basket.
Because you're shooting.
You're fouled in the act of shooting.
That's right.
Like, I don't know how people try to whoop my ass when I do something.
If somebody did that to me, I'm firing.
That never resulted in a fight.
Immediately.
It never resulted in a fight.
How many fights did you get in growing up?
Not really many, Benton, because I was like, I was so much smaller than everybody.
I would really never talk shit to nobody like that.
Now, I kind of know when I can talk shit because I know I'm talking about it.
40-year-old recognition.
That's what you're saying.
Yeah, because I know I got, you know, I know who's with me or what.
Randy Moss not in the day.
Yeah, yeah.
So, so, like, like.
Who was your protector growing up?
Because I assume that, you know, sometimes the game gets a little disrespectful.
Like, well, I don't know.
High school, like rivalry.
We were in high school in West Virginia.
We were just beating.
We could have called blue in high school in West Virginia if we wanted to.
It was that dominant.
Yeah, we were killing people then, too.
So I guess for everybody who doesn't know, like you go to high school with Randy.
You guys both play football together.
You both play basketball together.
And Randy was incredible at basketball too.
He was.
And you were incredible at football.
Like, you win player of the year one year.
Is Randy on the team?
Randy was on the team.
Have you never let him live that down?
No, because he won player of the year in basketball one year, too.
So, I mean, you know, it's like.
Fair is fair.
Yeah, that's right.
I wasn't a bad quarterback, though.
But I didn't like to get hit.
Yeah.
I wasn't.
I wasn't.
And I couldn't remember the play.
Like, like, I would call the play in a huddle.
I wonder why.
I wonder why.
Hey, look.
Scrape.
Hey, Randy, this is the play.
Go along, Randy.
That's right.
That's the play.
So, so I would be in a huddle and I would call whatever, like, let's just say 32 dive.
And then you got to get up to the line and say a cadence, like, as a quarterback, like 482, 4.
I wouldn't, if I said all that shit, I'd have forgotten it's 32 dive.
So look, I'm calling 32 dive.
And the first word you guys hear me say, that's when you hike the ball.
The first sound you know, it could be any numbers involved.
Fair Is Fair00:02:37
I don't know what we're gonna do.
That's hilarious.
But to your point, yeah, just throw it as far and as high as I could, and Moss will go get it every time.
So, you would have cannon.
You could throw it.
I could throw it a little bit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Moss was a good baseball player, too, though.
Yeah, you keep saying, I was watching, you guys have a great, you a great uh up-and-smoke interview.
All the smoke said, uh, yeah, he could fish his ass off.
That's right.
He said he could be an NFL punter today, for sure, or a field goal kicker, but fishing.
Why?
Why?
That's what he likes to do.
Like, I like to golf, he likes to fish.
I don't get into that.
I don't.
I mean, you go out there for six, seven hours, and nothing happens.
I mean, how much dope are you gonna smoke?
How much beer are you gonna drink out there?
You know what I'm saying?
So I don't know.
I guess he goes into competitions, and maybe in competitions, they got like they stocked the lake or whatever.
Before I don't know nothing about it, bro.
Why you just can't catch fish?
I just, I don't want to touch the bait.
And then if I do catch a fish, I don't want to touch that slimy son.
What's up with your thing about like eating and then people touching your hands?
I just, I don't, I don't, I don't really like, I don't really like people touching me, really.
You know what I mean?
Like, like, especially if I don't know you.
Okay, there's some, there's some parts of this world that you can go to, and like, you know, God forbid, I'm thankful that people want to take their picture with me.
I'm very thankful for that.
But, but I don't get it when people are like, can I get a picture?
Yeah, at least ask me first.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So stuff like that kind of makes me a little.
But did something happen with the food?
Because I've heard this story.
I'm not sure.
I don't refresh my memory.
I don't know.
Like, while you're eating, you don't like anybody touching your hands.
I'm sharing food.
I don't really like to share food either.
I'm going, I'm going, you know, we're all.
Yeah, we're all big boys.
Why would we want to share some shrimp-fried rice?
Just get your own bowl.
Right?
Am I wrong for that?
I'll gladly buy you that bowl too if you like it.
Now, if somebody starts eating out of your shrimp-fried rice, that's yours.
That's yours.
So you can't go to a family-style restaurant.
No, not y'all.
I have them.
So, what happens when you're playing on the things and you're with all these Euros who are used to these like big, you know, collective meals, everybody eating together?
We're going to, you know, y'all Europeans keep that over here.
Us Americans, we're going to eat the wings and we're going to have this shit over here.
You know what I mean?
Like, Europeans are a lot different than Americans.
I mean, God bless them.
Family Style Dining00:02:22
They can hoop.
They can do all that stuff, but they're just, they just, just different, right?
Yeah.
Foreskin.
I mean, yeah.
You know what I mean?
Long foreskin.
That is true.
That is true.
Yeah, you notice that.
And that was different for me.
I'm from Bale, West Virginia, as you said earlier.
There's no foreskins in Belle.
Not one.
I told him.
You know what, man?
I'm going to say the same.
Doug Christie.
Doug Christie.
That's my guy, Doug Christie.
He was a great guy.
I think he got a bad rap, bro.
He's just, he wanted to win, bro.
Why did he get a bad rap?
I think because he loved his wife so much.
And in NBA circles, people don't dig that.
Yeah.
That did kind of define him.
It did, but, bro, Doug Christie and his wife are two of the greatest people you ever meet, bro.
And he played D and L. You didn't want to do that.
Nah, you loved it.
I didn't get paid to play D.
I love your animosity towards defense.
Bro, okay.
But defense, defense, I'm not a defense doesn't win championships for me.
For you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, you got to score to win, right?
Yeah.
Like I say all the time, you want five Ben Wallace's or five Allen Iversons?
Five AIs.
Who's winning that game?
Five AIs.
Right, bro.
I agree with that.
Defense helps, though.
Yeah, I don't remember who.
I think Stephen Jackson said in all the smoke, five Ben Wallace's would end up winning that game just out of sheer physicality.
No, I think he folds.
They're going to foul out.
Ben Wallace is going to foul out.
I mean, there's nobody that's going to stop AI one-on-one.
Especially Ben Wallace.
And then they get frustrated and then they start fouling him.
Right.
And you know what else people don't realize?
Now I'm guarding Allen Iverson.
He gets by me.
And now the big guy has to come and help my big guy defensively.
And he either gets in foul trouble or AI dumps it off to his man.
Now he's got 32 at the end of the night.
Now the big guy's looking at him.
Everybody's looking at the big guy like your guy scored 32.
What the hell?
Hypothetical, that does make a lot of sense, but reality, the defensive teams do tend to win the championships.
Like if you're not good at defense, you're not winning, most likely.
Even Golden State had to get good at defense.
Without Draymond, that team folds.
Right.
Well, without Steph Curry and Trey Clay Thompson's three-pointers, where that's true, but you gotta, you know, you gotta play.
Defense helps.
Actually, I'm a mad score.
Defense Wins Championships00:06:58
I'm a man for it.
And we hire people to do that.
The reason y'all beat us, the team that I rooted for in 06 was the defense.
They couldn't handle the defensive pressure, I think, watching it.
That was part of it.
But Avery Johnson, they called a timeout in between free throws, too, and then they couldn't advance the ball.
So people don't realize that either.
You remember that?
Of course, it was late in the game.
And not a single play.
Oh, I remember all center.
You remember?
I remember all these dives?
You can't remember 32 dives?
That's a lot of numbers.
And then I got to go 782.
No, I can't do that.
Can't do it.
Dude, okay, okay, okay.
Let's start.
Let's go back from the beginning because I don't think people know enough about how tumultuous like the beginning of your career is.
Okay, so high school, incredibly fun.
You guys are doing whatever the fuck you want.
Game sold out.
People coming through.
It's like crazy, like celebrity type stuff in town.
Town is small, but even extended town, everybody knows you in the region.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
State championship.
If you don't get to the JV game before the JV game starts, you're not getting in to watch our game that night.
Wow.
They would have to go to the JV game.
Yeah.
Sit through the whole JV game.
Oh, yeah.
Do you start to experience fame a little bit then?
No, not really.
Okay, because these are all your friends.
Yeah, this is both you grew up with them.
All 17 of us.
Right.
1,000 people in the town.
So everybody knows each other.
Maybe.
Yeah.
Okay.
You get an offer to play for Donovan at Providence.
Donovan wasn't at Providence yet.
It was Rick Barnes at Providence.
Oh, Rick Barnes.
Okay.
Then what happens where you end up going to Marshall?
Okay.
Kentucky was recruiting me a little bit when I was a senior.
Billy Donovan was an assistant coach at Kentucky.
So he liked you.
He saw you.
He was the one who recruited me, right?
So he brought me into summer camp down there, Kentucky, Patino's, so Patino could see me.
Well, push come to shove, but Patino needed a freshman to play major minutes, and he didn't think I was ready.
So they recruited elsewhere.
And Billy Donovan, over that same time period, took the job at Marshall.
I would have never thought about going to Marshall.
It was like 40 minutes from my house.
Just never thought about going there until he took the job.
So I signed with Providence out of college with Rick Barnes.
He took the job at Clemson.
That's right.
He leaves.
So now, because you liked Rick Barnes, it wasn't the school.
You believed in the coach who believed in you.
Let's get it.
It's never the school.
It's the coach.
Of course.
That's the recruiting process.
Come on, man.
Name an athlete that's ever been drafted, that's been on the interview ever that said, man, I went to such and such because they had a great biology professor.
You know what I mean?
There might be a couple, like, that might be an institution like Duke or something, but still you're coming there for Coach K. Correct.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, okay.
Exactly.
Okay, okay.
So he leaves.
Now you're like, I don't want to play for this coach.
And did the coach that, so what is his name, Rick Barnes leave?
Rick Barnes left Pete Gillen.
God rest his soul.
He came in.
He and I had a relationship, but he wanted to bring in it.
He brought in God Sham God.
That's what I was going to ask you.
Yes.
Okay, okay.
Who's actually, I think, now with the masks.
He is.
Yeah, yeah.
So I didn't want to go that far away from home.
You know, probably not going to play, right?
Yeah.
I mean, I probably could have still went there and took the minutes, but I decided not to.
It's kind of funny, though, because you'd be like, Coach, don't you want someone with handles?
And he's like, well, I got the guy.
Yeah, well, maybe a white guy with handles.
But were they offering you any brown paper bags?
No, I wasn't nothing.
Yeah, what is that?
No, I wasn't a coach.
I wasn't nowhere rated four-star.
I didn't get any of that.
So, no.
Are they schmoozing your parents?
No.
No.
How did they even get in touch with you?
Later on, they schmoozed my parents.
Well, I went to, I ended up signing with, I had to set out a year because I had already signed a letter with Providence.
So I went to Fort Union Military Academy in Virginia.
And I was there for like eight days.
That shit there, boy, I ain't.
Defense.
Too much.
Literally, it's defense.
Didn't even make it to basketball.
No.
No, I told my dad, no, I can't.
No, eight days after this, you know, you got to salute like sixth graders that's been there longer with more rank than you.
You know, you got to make your bet.
I mean, not that I'm against all that shit, but you don't have no TV in your room.
No, I'm not.
On like the third day of class, English class, we got like a quiz with like 325 vocab words.
No, no, I'm not cut out for this.
No.
So then I sat out the rest of that semester and I went to talk with Billy Donovan up at Marshall.
Yeah.
So I sat out a year at Marshall.
Brandy was there too, right?
Randy came after me.
So I was at Marshall.
I sat out a year, then I played a year, and then Billy Donovan left and went to Florida.
Now, does he tell you before?
No, not really.
He's like, I'm like, well, shit.
He's like, what are you going to do?
I'm like, well, the only reason I came here, you know, is because of you, right?
And he's like, well, I want you to stay here.
Looking back, that's what he was supposed to say.
Meanwhile, I end up at Florida.
Now, people don't know.
Now you don't have to do this, but back in the day, if you were going to change schools, you have to sit out another year.
So you already registered freshman your first year, right?
So that's 18 to 19 is sat out.
Now you're sitting out another year.
So two years, it's not eligibility because you maintain, but it's still of your life.
Those are playing years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Actually, I played a year after, I sit out a year and then I play the year.
You played in Marshall.
Correct.
And then you have to sit out again.
That's right.
And it was illegal to pay.
So you're just sitting there.
I'm saying two out of your, what would be four college years, you have to sit out.
Yeah.
It's, I mean, it's just kind of crazy.
Now I think players have a different perspective on it because now they're like, let me get into the league as soon as possible because let me get paid as soon as possible.
But you're essentially doing four years of college while only playing two.
Right.
That takes away two of your playing years.
That's big money you could be making.
Anyway, so he says you should stay here.
Right.
And is that a political move by him?
I think so.
Looking back, I didn't know that then.
Explain that because I don't understand.
I just think maybe he was just trying to say the right thing for me because he knew that he couldn't come out and say, you come with me, right?
Because I think back then you're probably getting in trouble for taking players.
Oh.
It's a bad luck.
Yeah, yeah.
Because it's about the education.
Right.
That's right.
That good biology professor.
Okay.
That's right, bro.
Okay.
So.
So the new coach came into Marshall.
Yeah.
He starts sending me a bunch of Reebok gear to the house.
Thinking, thinking if I open that, now he's got me.
Because it was like, it's almost like he's paying me.
Now I'm stuck here.
But my dad was kind of smart about it.
He didn't let me open any of it.
I was mad and he helped my dad.
I wanted to rock the gear, right?
So we had to end up hiring a lawyer and everything to get out of the commitment at Marshall to get to Florida.
So do you call up Donovan?
You say, hey, man, I want to come hoop for you.
I didn't personally, but yeah, he got, yeah.
He got word.
Yeah.
And he wanted it.
I think so.
I mean, but then I get down there and he kicks me off the team after 17 games.
Rebellious Spirit In The Game00:04:14
But you were hooping.
I was hooping.
But he told me, though, in all honesty, he told me that if I got, if I had another dirty test, he was going to kick me off.
It was supposed to be three tests, but he only gave me two.
But he told me after the first one, you know, he didn't have time for that.
And like I said earlier, you know, getting paid and stuff, I wasn't that kind of guy.
I wasn't getting, if I was getting, you know, if you're getting 30 and 15, that kind of stuff just slides right under the rug.
I was that kind of guy.
Plus, I wasn't going to class.
I'm in trouble.
I mean, Billy Diamond's rule: if you didn't wait, if you didn't go to class, you know, if you missed a class, you had to wake up the next day at 5:30 and run for a half hour.
I said, Look here, I told the strings, I'm going to meet you every day at five.
It's the deal.
That's right.
Because you know what?
I'm going to get in better shape than everybody.
And then I'm going to get a good breakfast and then I'm going to go sleep and I'm going to come to practice and bust everybody's ass in practice because I'm going to be in better shape and I'm ready to rock.
So I thought that was probably another blessing and a curse for me to learn that I could miss class and just have to run for 30 minutes.
Shit, I could run for 30 minutes all day.
You know what I mean?
Did you know it was one year in your hour?
No, I didn't.
You know, once I got in trouble, I'm like, you know, everybody, what am I going to do?
This, that, another.
And I always thought NBA, or I don't know.
Yeah.
You know, now that I look back, people ask me that question: well, what I've done if I didn't play in the NBA, just my personality would be like, I could see myself, you know, I have fun.
Like, I have fun being like a UPS driver, like a FedEx driver or something.
Like, I ain't just giving my shit, let me go do my thing.
I ain't trying to be around my boss all day or whatever, you know, telling me what I had to do.
Yeah, that's just my personality.
Yeah, and you play like that too.
There's a rebellious spirit in the game.
Yeah.
It's really interesting because you're the most humble dude that has been as famous as you've been.
Like, like truly humble, but your game has no humility.
Well, I think that comes with the territory a little bit because as a little dude growing up playing, I mean, let's keep it real.
Most hoopers are black dudes, right?
Yeah.
And athletic and big and strong.
Way bigger and stronger than I was growing up, right?
So you're not black.
I might have a half uncle down there somewhere, bro.
Sometime, right?
But like you said, I just go out.
And if you didn't have that kind of attitude on the court, bro, I think a guy like me would just get ate up.
I think a lot of people confuse humility for a lack of confidence, but they're totally dissimilar because you were playing confident to the point where I feel like you were rejecting authority.
So like the coach might have wanted you to make the correct pass and do these.
So I'm trying to understand where that confidence comes.
And I've heard you say, I've drilled these passes, I know it's going to go there every single time.
But still, when you're in a big game moment, we all have, we haven't been to big games with you, but we all have this feeling like, I don't want to do something that could let the team down, right?
It doesn't even have to be a big game moment.
We're playing fucking paddle, whatever.
You're like, do I want to go for this slam and potentially lose the point for the team?
You never even.
Nah, because what if you didn't go for it and you didn't win and you're laying down in bed at night, like, damn, I should have went for that shit.
So the regret would eat you.
And plus, like, I've done tried all this shit.
I've practiced all this shit by myself.
And now I got these dudes around me, Chris Weber and Vladi Divots and Shaq and D. Wade shit.
Then I ain't got to be nowhere near perfect with my shit because these dudes are going to make me look great.
I think it gets twisted because I get a lot of credit for all this stuff.
But without these dudes, none of this, I wouldn't be sitting here today.
I mean, some of these passes that I've thrown were horrible passes, but they caught these bitches and made them look good, bro.
So, and the elbow pass, I've did that thing probably millions of times and been successful three.
I think this is like the greatest mistake in Lamar Odom's life is fouling Rafe LaFrence on that.
I agree, but again, again, it's not crack.
No, I'll take a little responsibility for that because if I'd have hit it to a bruh and he'd have been different.
When you saw Rafe Trailer, you're like, God, give me Randy Moss.
Yeah, something else, man.
Elite Passing And Trust00:15:26
He'll take anyone.
But he was probably a little more athletic than Dirk.
Well, so I guess guys, tour announcements.
We have added a show in Portland.
We sold out Friday and Saturday, so we're adding a late show Saturday.
Thank you, Cucks, for buying tickets, dude.
I hope you keep doing it.
I know you hate your city as much as I do.
And if you do, you should be there.
December 8th, I'm going to be in New Orleans, the big easy.
I've never done comedy there.
I'm super hyped.
So hurry up and buy your tickets.
Also, 17th, 18th, 19th, I'm going to be in the UK.
Glasgow, London, and Manchester.
London, we added a second show.
Glasgow, y'all ain't buying no fucking tickets.
I'm going to be honest with you.
Those sales ain't shit.
I'm not going to pretend they're great when they're not.
Manchester is going to sell out.
Y'all should buy tickets.
Glasgow, get your fucking act together.
Also, I announced this last week.
This is big.
January 6th, 8th, and 9th, I'm going to be in the Netherlands and Norway.
I'm going to be in Eindovan, Amsterdam, and Oslo.
I don't know when the fuck I'm ever coming back.
Hurry up and buy your tickets.
Maybe I'll get thrown in jail like Alex did in Sweden.
Get your tickets for those shows and more at Akashing.com.
Yeah, dude.
Okay, okay.
So you're balling in Florida.
College game easy for you?
You feel like you could do whatever you want?
I think basketball's kind of always been kind of easy to me.
I mean, there's different levels to it, but I just feel like as a basketball player that's going to be playing the position that I played, when I get on the floor and I got the ball in my hand, I'm getting to anywhere.
Wherever I want to go on the floor, I'm getting there.
That's yours.
You ain't stopping me.
It might take me a little bit longer in different situations, but I'm going to get there.
So just the confidence having that.
So getting on.
What does that mean?
I'm going to get there, for example.
Like, there ain't nothing you can do.
Now, I can't say that I'm going to score.
I'm just saying, like, get to a spot on the floor where I'm going to get over here.
And I know you, if you don't help off that corner, it's a layup for me.
But if you take this, this lean this way, it's a three.
Yeah.
Just lean.
And that's all I'm really looking for.
So the imagination, I think these kids, they don't have the imagination today like they did back in the, back when I grew up.
And why is that?
I think because a lot of these kids have trainers now.
Yeah.
And they walk in the gym and the trainer's already got a schedule.
We're going to do ball handling for 15 minutes.
All right.
We're doing it.
All right.
Now come on over here.
We're going to do this.
Whereas me, I never had a trainer.
I would go in the gym and work on different types of pivots.
Like if you saw me working out, like, what is he doing?
But I don't try these pivots just in case I get caught at half court somewhere trapped and I got to use one of these crazy ass pivots just to get out of that.
I know that I'm going to be able to do it, but it might look like shit, but it's going to work.
But it's going to work.
So my point is the imagination, I got that.
I've got this pivot.
I got that pivot.
Whereas a trainer is only going to work on X, Y, and Z. There's a...
I have a question about the pass and the way you passed.
I know you said the way to stay on the court growing up, mainly playing with black dudes is I just, I'll pass and they'll respect the passing.
Is part of that why flashy passes, people are going to be like, oh, that white guy is cold with the passing, keep him.
Is that where that comes from, you think, on any level of like, that's just what kept me on the court when I was a kid?
I'm not sure, man, but it wasn't about that that was keeping me on the court.
I was thinking more along like, like we're going to the park and you guys are there and you guys know how I play.
I'm passing and y'all like to shoot.
Well, shit, you're going to want me on your team all the time because you know I ain't shooting no balls.
I'm trying to get y'all the ball.
That's why I'm wondering like if the if the NBA game was weirdly easier for you because you had more guys that could stroke.
So in the college game, I imagine you have to take on a little bit more of the offensive burden.
Like you got to get the ball in a cup more.
Whereas you start playing the league and it's like, wait a minute, I got four different dudes that are lights out.
So did you find the transition to be a lot easier than people have maybe told you about?
I mean, I want to say it was easier, but I don't want to sound like an asshole because the NBA is such, this is difficult.
Yeah.
Because them dudes are monsters night in and night out.
But yeah, the spacing is different.
You know what I mean?
Like, I was kind of quick.
You know, if you weren't there when you're supposed to be, I'm going to get by you.
Yeah.
So like I said earlier, if that guy's just leaning, you know what I mean?
It's just, it's a game of angles.
That's the other thing.
Okay.
How often are you?
Because I think a lot of times we look at, or, you know, a casual person is looking at basketball and they're like, okay, I see a guy open.
I'm passing it to him.
What I think you would do and what would make it different was you would make guys open.
And I think the elite passers do this.
Something you were doing offensively is dragging attention away, help away.
And so you're setting up a pass while you still have the ball.
Are you thinking two moves ahead or are you in that moment going, okay, boom, done?
Well, I'm definitely trying to think that way too, but sometimes it doesn't happen like that.
Right.
Like most of the time, most NBA is a pick and roll game, right?
Yes.
And the defense should be played the same if it's played the correct way.
So the guys should be where they are.
And as a point guard, you should know if I'm coming off a side pick and roll, well, this guy in the ball side corner defensively, he's got to slide in there and take the roll man on the pick and roll.
And if he don't, then that role man's a dunk, right?
Because all the other three guys are on his side floor.
But now the pass that everybody wants to give up in the pick and roll defense is that guy slide in is the pass way back over there because all these guys in the NBA is quick enough to react to that.
Where they're not quick enough to react to this little quick pass, skip it all the time.
Funny story about the skip pass.
Grant Long.
Remember Grant Long used to play for the Atlanta Hawks?
Played for with, he played with me when, remember Ike Austin?
Ike Austin with the Orlando Magic.
Yes, sir.
Yep.
Yeah.
Well, anyway, we played together in Memphis.
And it's my first year in Memphis.
And like a couple timeouts come by, and Grant Long was always in the corner of our offense.
Always.
That's you go to the corner.
No matter what's going on, Grant's in the corner, right?
So he's like, oh, there's like two timeouts.
He's bitching, like, man, I'm open.
I'm open in the corner.
Y'all need to swing it.
Y'all need to swing it.
I'm getting fed up with this shit, right?
So like next timeout, he's bitching again.
I'm like, God damn it, Grant.
It's a reason you're open in the corner.
Reason, right?
I'm like, look, if you want to shoot the ball, you go offensive rebound.
And every time you offensive rebound, you can shoot it anytime you want.
He never said he was open again.
But I'm Phil Grant because when I was in Miami, you know, that was my job.
I initiate the offense, bomb, get it to D. Wade or whoever, and go stand in the corner.
And if I get it, shoot it.
Or if not, get your ass back on defense.
Yeah.
I mean, it's crazy the transition.
Okay, okay.
So you're hooping.
You get in trouble for the weed.
I think it's weed.
Did they ever say it was weed?
Yeah.
It was weed.
Okay.
So you get in trouble.
You ever did any other drugs than weed?
And is that even a drug?
Yeah, that's so funny.
Right.
How we treated it in the 90s.
It was so funny.
We thought that was the craziest thing.
Bro, and there's people locked up for life where it's crazy.
But you got another advice, too.
You got a Coca-Cola.
Yeah, Coca-Cola.
That's not really a vice, is it?
This guy apparently drinks Coca-Cola like breakfast, lunch, dinner.
Oh, you were mourning Coca-Cola guy?
Coca-Cola.
Come on, man.
Look, shout out.
Come on, bro.
They got you, bro.
Coke, holler at me, dog.
Okay, so you're balling.
You get in a little bit of trouble.
You're in flux right now, right?
Are there teams in the league that are interested?
Because they saw what you were doing.
Or is there no interest?
And then the Nick Anderson play happens.
Yeah, I don't, I don't know if there was any interest.
I wasn't aware of any interest.
Now, Billy Donovan never told me anything about that, any interest.
I'm sure there had to be some coaches calling him and asking something, right?
I don't know, though.
So I end up with Nick Anderson.
I end up, we played a game before I got kicked off the team, Florida, Florida State in Orlando.
Nick came to watch, blah, blah, blah.
He told his agent he needs to sign me.
One thing led another.
Now I'm with Nick Anderson's agent.
Nick Anderson, basketball player, played for Orlando Magic, great shooter.
Great shooter.
First pick out Orlando Magic ever for their franchise.
I actually played in Sacramento with me too.
But anyway, we signed with a save agent and he had a condo down in downtown Orlando.
So when I got kicked off the team in Florida, I moved down there and that kind of started working out with those guys down there.
Best shape of my life.
One thing led to another.
I started, the draft was coming up.
I had to go work out for these different teams.
You know, different, different, you know, I wasn't going to go work out.
I think the Clippers had one.
I'm not going to go work out for the Clippers because they're not picking me one.
Who did they take?
Or Tanny.
Yeah, sir.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
You should have worked out for the Clippers.
Well, it was back when Donald Sterling on the team, so I'm glad I did.
So I worked out for these other teams and all these other guys that were supposed to be, you know, picked ahead of me.
The Mike Bibbies, the Rafer Austins, the Tyrone Lewis.
Was right wafer was in that draft class.
So that skipped to my loop.
A lot of times guys like that and myself will be at these workouts for these different franchises.
But sometimes some guys would duck and dodge some workouts too, not in fear of hurting their because they don't want to go up against someone who's going to be low.
Right, right.
So like I said, when I moved to Orlando, I got in the best shape of my life and I was going to all these workouts.
And you're already hooping with the Matt.
You're playing with NBA players.
You're like, I could do this.
Yeah, doing this.
Whatever you wanted.
Like I said.
Today, if I go on the court, I'm getting wherever I want to get.
Against anybody?
I might tear my Achilles, but I'm going to get over it.
Worth it.
So it's really just the body breaking down.
You know.
For sure.
I mean, if you can dribble with your left and right hand as good as a lot of people can, you can get to wherever you want, bro.
I'm telling you.
Okay, okay.
So take us through it.
Take us through it.
So I go through these draft workouts and I'm killing everywhere I go.
Who are you going up against?
Who's the one-on-ones?
I never got to go against Bibby.
He didn't really work out.
He worked out for the top two teams.
That's it.
Yeah.
Because he knew what time it was.
But I worked out with, I think I worked out with Rayford somewhere in Tyrloo, Sacramento.
We did that.
They had me come back and work out again.
So you have an initial one.
Yeah.
And they called and said, well, can he stay the night and work out tomorrow?
So what does that mean?
Does that mean that they're unsure?
Or does that mean they saw something they didn't know they were going to see?
I personally think that they wanted to see if it was real.
So they, oh, he might have just had a great, he was on fire today.
We got to make sure it's it.
And you get that call.
And what are you like?
Are you like, this is food?
Yeah, I think I think this is what's going to happen.
They had the seventh pick, but then draft night comes and the Bucs had like sixth.
And Don Nelson calls my agent and talked about they might take me at the sixth.
I didn't work out for the Bucks at all.
I never had any conversation at all.
So people were talking in the league.
I think so.
Oh, shit.
But even if people were talking, if I was an owner or something, I wouldn't just go based off what he thought about you playing.
If I was trying to get him and I knew what time it was with him, I'm not just going to pick you because you had some hoopla.
You got to see it.
You're right.
But still, there's enough combo where they have to make a decision.
Maybe.
I think I made a little bit of noise too in a couple of these workouts.
Do you remember which one was your best?
Sacramento was for sure the best one, for sure.
I mean, I was.
Were you playing how you played?
Full tilt.
No, no, no.
I was like, hold up.
We did this one.
Oh, dude, the balls.
So you don't even know if there's interest.
You go to these workouts thinking there might be, and you're, oh, you have nothing to lose.
And plus, that's all I know.
I'm not going to go out there and just try to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What's that going to end?
So you're toying with these motherfuckers.
Oh, yeah.
And these coaches and this staff are looking at that like, how is he playing so free?
Why is he acting like this isn't the biggest deal in his life?
And I wonder if the sports psychologists on the teams are going, yeah, this kid ain't scared.
Not scared or what?
What are you going to do?
Bite me?
But some players, that's a big moment.
That's a big moment.
That's your life right there, theoretically.
Oh, every other person that's playing is like, I need to get the, I need to be drafted by this team.
My whole life trajectory is built around this.
I have this Adidas deal, this Nike deal, and you're out there.
Yeah, no deal.
I'm just trying to get in that uniform.
And you were eating them alive?
Eating.
Were you chirping at him?
No, no, I wasn't chirping because, like I said, I was small shit and I wasn't a chirper.
I don't want a fighter either.
You know what I mean?
So you got five on the squad?
Are you playing fives in these workouts?
Like, what is the no, no, there was only the one drill we did in Sacramento was, I forget, I forget who was there with me, but we did like a one-on-one drill.
And the width of the paint, that's out of bounds.
So I started half court with the ball, and I go at you.
And if I score, now I'm coming back at the other guy at the other end.
You're going out of bounds is the paint.
You can't go out the width of the paint.
But are you going full speed?
I mean, I don't think anybody's stopping you full speed.
Not anyone.
So they just have to wait at the free throw line and you're going full speed at them?
Yeah, and I got to do the same thing for them, too.
I mean, like I said earlier, I ain't playing no D, bro.
I'm just trying to like, you know, just try to back up and entice a jump shot.
Yeah.
But at some point, you know, these guys, the coaches and all this, they ain't never want to see a jump shot.
You got to do something.
And so you were cooking them.
Well, yeah, I was cooking.
I was just doing what I do.
Like I said.
And you're in the best shape of your life, so the full court's not bothering you.
Not a bit, bro.
Yeah.
Not a bit.
Okay.
So SAC gets you with the seventh pick.
Can you explain draft night?
Like, what does that feel like?
You remember Old Boys in Orlando, the barbecue spot?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's where I was the night of the draft.
You were at a barbecue restaurant?
Thank you.
You weren't at the draft?
No, it was in Vancouver.
That's right because of the shouts out of Vancouver.
I love Vancouver though.
I went and visited to play the Grizzlies and things like that.
Vancouver's a great city.
But I wasn't going to go to the draft not knowing that I was even going to be a draft.
And I'm sitting there.
They got me on camera.
In the second round, I still ain't been drafted, right?
Yeah.
You go to old boys.
So I'm at Old Boys with my family, right?
To go to a barbecue restaurant for draft night might be the most Jason Williams.
Oh, man.
Barbecue in Vancouver, no less.
No, no.
This is in Orlando.
No, no, no.
Yeah.
So, you know, we're sitting there watching, and the seventh pick comes up.
And well, the sixth pick came up, and that's when Don Nelson, the Bucks, called my agent and said, We might take him with the sixth pick.
And they're like, why would you do that?
Because I think we already knew the Sacramento, if I was there at seven, we're going to take me.
Wow.
And once that my name was called, bro, yeah, what are you feeling?
Then we go to an interview with Brian Gumble down the street.
And we want to talk about it.
Was it weird being with someone that much whiter than you on camera?
You know, he talks about, wants to talk about the weed and stuff like that, you know, right away.
I'm like, bro, this is going to be the happiest day of my life.
We're not going to talk about all that bullshit.
Oh, did you say that to him?
Of course.
Good for you.
I mean, for what?
Yeah.
Why?
Everybody knows what time it is.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So why talk about, let's talk about that tomorrow?
Yeah.
Yeah, that is an absolutely narcissistic thing to do.
Yeah, he's easy.
They've ruined somebody, the best day of somebody's life.
Well, trying to get this.
Not ruin it, but try to chip away it a little bit.
Like you have to have zero empathy to even ask that question on that day.
If it's a week later and you're at camp and you're doing it, that's part of the job.
How about the next day even?
Give me a day to be with your family.
You just put the sound bite over your happiness.
Yeah, really selfish.
That's all.
Shout out to Brian Gumble.
Keep trying, bro.
And how do your parents react?
My parents, you know, I was more happy for like my grandmother and people like that, bro.
Because I used to give my grandmother like $400 a month when I was in the league and you thought it would be like $4,000 or something.
She just sighed.
And did she support you when you were coming up?
For sure, man.
And all my homies, we ride our bikes up to my grandma's house and she used to sew for people around town, you know, do their laundry or whatnot.
She'd have a gang of ones, like she was going to strip club every night.
But she would break, you know, give me six, seven.
How many ever homeboys I have with me on our bikes?
She'd make sure everybody could get a big golf or whatnot at 7-11.
So yeah, she looked out for sure.
Zero Empathy For Selfishness00:15:21
Wow.
That's really cool.
Okay, so you get to go to Sacramento.
Do you know the team that you're walking into?
Are you familiar with these guys?
This is a different generation where you can't exactly just go on fucking Instagram and see their highlights.
Yeah.
Do you know the guys?
I have no idea, but I knew C-Webb.
I got traded there.
But he didn't come for nothing for three or four weeks.
That's right.
He wasn't coming.
There's no good soul food in Sacramento.
No, the sound bite everybody glommed onto, yeah.
Yeah.
And his mom was very influential on getting him to finally come.
Why?
Why?
And his brothers too, his brothers, like, look, they just drafted a kid from Florida.
It's going to pass you the ball.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
Oh, so they knew.
They knew.
Well, they made the trade for C-Web prior to my drafting.
No, no, I'm saying C-Web's family knew.
They were kind of clocking you as well.
Well, yeah.
Because they were just trying to get him to come because if you don't come, you're finna lose all that money, right?
But you got to give credit to that organization for picking you.
They're looking for a guy who can deliver to people that they believe in.
And there's a lot of fucking mouths to feed on that team.
Oh, yeah.
It was a really fucking smart decision.
But if you look back, all those guys, everybody on that team could pass the ball.
Sea Webb was a great pass.
Sea Webby, Plotty was a great passer.
Who smelled the worst?
Plotty, right?
You know what, man?
It had to be Flotty.
They didn't smell the worst.
They smelled different than we did.
It's like, you know, they did showers differently.
No, no, we're getting a shower.
We're going to shampoo her hair.
They wash the body, whatnot.
It's just like, they go straight to the shampoo, bomb and head and chest, and they're out of there.
Yeah, nothing.
And back then, too, we'd have beer.
Richard Whites.
You know, back then, too, in the league, they have coolers of beer in the shower, too.
So guys that drank would be drinking in the showers right after the game.
So it's a lot different now.
Can you talk about like early rookie year like hazing stories?
Sure, man.
I'm not even so sure they do that anymore, bro.
Really?
Yeah, but he's supposed to sit here.
Yeah.
I had some good ones, but like when I was coming up, you know, telling rookies, like, look, man, they're just trying you.
If you do it, you'll be fine.
They won't even ask you to do it.
So you want some stories of me or some other cat, bro?
All of it.
Oh, man.
The best of the best.
I don't know if you remember this dude named Gorin Girichek.
He played with me in Memphis.
I'm going to be remembering him.
He's about a 6'6, I want to say Slovenian, maybe.
I don't know.
But he's coming over here.
Most of those guys that come over there, they've already played Pro Ball over there before they come here.
So they don't think they're rookies here.
I'm like, that's a, no, no, no.
You're a rookie.
So Ike Austin and Grant Long in Memphis.
Hey, look, Rook, bring some donuts in the morning.
Didn't bring them.
Like three days go by like that, no donuts.
And now I could tell these dudes get these, these are some vets.
Like, I would be shook up at these vets if they, you know what I mean?
Like, don't piss these vets off because they're real vets.
And I could tell, like, look, Rook, just bring some donuts.
Just bring some donuts tomorrow for me.
Just for me.
Because I know what time's going to happen.
And if you don't bring the donuts, it's going to be on your ass.
They done gave you three or four chances.
Nah, nah, Jay.
Well, I'm not a rookie.
I'm not.
All right.
Next day, no donuts.
So at the end of practice, they put a bin, like a big laundry bin in the middle.
We pin our gear up, throw it in the bin so the equipment manager can go wash it.
Well, they dumped all that shit out of there.
Duct taped his legs, gear checks to Rook.
Duct taped his legs, hands behind the back, butt naked, put him in the laundry bin, filled it up with ice, rolled him into the shower, filled it up with ice water, rolled him out onto the pyramid floor, old pyramid in Memphis, onto the game floor, right in the middle of the big old Grizz.
Left his ass there for like three hours.
Nobody found him.
So I think maybe you can't mess with them OGs like that, man.
They asked you to do something.
Did you fight them off?
I'm sure, but if you know Ike Austin and Grant Long, you're not going to fight them.
Wow.
Not going to fight them dudes.
No, sir.
How effective was he after?
Because Shaq said the only player I could never get to at the hazing was Gorin because he was from, I think he was Slovenian.
Gorin Dragic.
And he was like, Shaq, you don't understand where I come from.
This hazing thing is nothing.
No matter what you do, it's not worse than where I came from.
Yeah, but I don't know if they hogtied him and then put him in every ice, put him in a nice.
That probably happened to a name.
I'm a cousin of his back home.
Yeah.
Okay, okay, what else?
What else?
What else?
So they have tortured people.
They had me one time.
We landed in Boston and the snow was like, I mean, obviously it was a drift, snow drift, but it was like 20 feet high, right?
And when we land, like NBA teams, you land, NBA guys are spoiled.
You just walk from the plane to the bus.
Don't worry about your luggage.
Your luggage will be in the room when you need it, right?
So the equipment, the equipment guys and the airline guys are getting the bags from the same.
So I had to get help with the bags this time.
That was my rookie deal.
But I had to do it without a shirt on.
Like, you got to do, I want you to help put the bags on.
So I'm like, well, fuck, I'm madder in hell.
Matter in hell down there, but I'm doing it because I know I just got to do it.
And they're just trying you anyway to see if you want to fight it, right?
So if you don't fight, if you fight it, it's going to be worse.
So I'm done.
I'm madder in hell.
I want to open their bags and throw their clothes and shit everywhere, but boom, boom, one at a time.
Boom.
Get on there.
I'm like, fuck it.
I'm not riding with them motherfuckers.
I hop my ass right up under the bus with the bags.
Close the door and off we go.
I'll teach them.
Nobody asked for you.
Nobody.
Bad decision.
Why?
That's cold as hell riding.
But they never asked me to do much after that.
So, I mean, like I said, if you just do it, they'll be cool with you.
Yeah.
Who are you closest with, do you think, on SAC?
It had to be C-Web.
C-Webb.
Yeah.
At what point in the season do you guys really gel and you realize there's something special happening?
I mean, it had to be early because, like I said earlier, we only had 50 games.
It was quick.
Yeah.
But I remember the feeling of that team.
And I remember, and keep in mind, this is a time where there's not that much distraction.
We're watching basketball on what, Tuesdays and Fridays.
Oh, no, no.
That was a short team.
We'll watch basketball every day.
But you're searching when the Kings are going to play.
I grew up in New York City.
I watched the Knicks.
I'm not fucking searching for a Sacramento basketball team.
We're searching, like, when is this fucking team going to play?
It was so exciting.
We just watched Sports Center all day.
So what's going to happen?
What are they going to play?
Highlights.
Who is the highlight machine?
You and the Kings.
So you're just in our brains, dude.
You took over basketball.
The Kings and me, not you and the Kings.
Okay, I like that.
Come on, bro.
Okay.
Now, do you start to feel the fame ever?
When you're walking down the street, do you start to feel the recognition?
And does that get to you at all?
You comfortable with it?
I guess I like, yeah, I recognize it a little bit, but I don't like even to, I don't, I never really look at myself as that, bro.
Like, I'm just a normal dude, man.
I can't imagine what it's like to be like LeBron and like Tagger and guys like that.
Like, come on, bro.
They can't even go down to the grocery store and look for what kind of cereal they got out now.
You know what I mean?
Who's Tagger?
Tagger Woods.
Taggers.
Come on, bro.
That's some Orlando.
I heard Tagger.
This is not Tech Window.
I heard Tagger.
Just because we're in New York, I ain't going to change my.
You say however you want to say it, but my brain was working overtime for about three seconds.
Like, what the fuck is Tagger?
I thought it was a watcher.
Tagged.
You were the highest.
Tagger was.
LeBron and Tagger.
Come on.
Bron and Tagger.
I don't know anything.
No.
Come on.
Did you see the confusion in my life?
I did.
I did.
Okay, but I like how you just, I see it in my kids' face.
They make fun of the way I talk.
But yeah.
You had to make him run a bike.
That's right.
Come on.
Look at that.
So, yeah, I can't like the celebrity status and things like that.
I never put myself in that situation.
But is it uncomfortable for you coming from West Virginia, a thousand people?
Florida at the time wasn't a basketball powerhouse.
So you're kind of just doing there.
Now all of a sudden you're nationally famous.
There's a point in time where you have the best-selling jersey in the NBA.
Yeah.
You're aware of this.
Well, that's just because these dudes caught some bad passes and made me look good, bro.
Yeah, but it's still, you are famous kind of out of never having dealt with anything like that.
But do you start to feel that expectation when you're going out there to hoop or does it not affect hooping at all?
Expectation was never there.
My only thing that I was worried about is my 14 other dudes and my coaching staff as long as they knew that I wanted to win.
I wasn't out there throwing behind the back passes for myself or trying to get on Sports Center.
You know what I'm saying?
I'm going to play this way.
And if we win, then it's just going to be on TV.
You know what I mean?
I wasn't the expectation of me, oh, I'm on three-on-one.
I got to do something for y'all to watch on Sports Center tomorrow.
Nah, that never entered my mind, bro.
Could you see, because obviously at this point in time, you're probably not just seeing people play pickup, et cetera.
But did people tell you how the pickup games start to change a little bit?
Anybody tell you that?
Like throwing crazy stuff like that?
The pickup game growing up was always about getting buckets.
I grew up in the city hooping.
I'm trying to cross you over.
I'm going at your chest.
Like I remember watching AI and I was like, I will never back down again.
I don't care how tall you are.
I'm going at your chest with my shoulder and I'm trying to lay it up.
And I remember when you and that Sacramento team were sharing the ball and I saw the pickup game start to change.
People wanted to drop dimes behind the back, the no look.
And it's very similar to what also happened with Steph.
Like I've noticed this with AI, you and Steph.
Steph, everybody's three feet behind the three-point line, which you would also do.
Yes.
Yeah, but yeah.
If I could shoot like Steph Curry, there wouldn't be no elbow pass.
Nobody's getting touched.
You wouldn't be here.
Europeans.
Yo, okay, but I just felt like a transition going with the game.
There was like a truly change the way, and I felt it became intoxicating even with the team.
I remember watching the team like, oh, everybody wants to make the extra pass.
Did you feel that?
I did feel that, but I mean, basketball is a beautiful game if it's played the right way to me.
And it's so hard if we go out and play for me to get it done or for you to get it done for our team.
Like if you use screens and you use, and you make the extra pass, it just makes the game so much easier.
Like how much easier is it for you instead of putting your shoulder down, crossing somebody up and banging into them and getting a layup as opposed to making one more pass, setting the backstream and going back door wide open?
Boom.
You know what I mean?
So I think it's just, it's everybody today thinks getting buckets is where it's at.
And really, in realistic, it is.
If you look at the guards like point guard, people ask me, could I play in today's game?
I think I probably could.
I had the talent to do it, but I think I'd have struggled because most of these point guards now got to get 30 or 25, 30 points a night for the team to be successful.
And I didn't have that mentality to get buckets.
But I also think you would have, you've said this before.
I think you'd be better in today's NBA because it is more fast-paced.
We're joking about the defense, but there's not like the, you have to play defense all the time.
You can score and your 30-foot threes aren't looked at as bad shots anymore.
Your three-pointing would be encouraged.
You would have worked on that.
I just feel like the Sacramento team.
The lead is fine.
I feel like the Sacramento team was today's NBA team.
Like you had bigs that could shoot threes.
Right.
Right?
So I don't know.
I feel like you would transfer to today's game.
Way you have more people that can shoot from behind ARC.
Right.
And more spacing, too.
Like you said, that's right.
Everybody wants all the league wants offensive points.
I mean, they want offense, right?
They don't want 75, 80 point games, right?
Yeah.
So you came up with the lowest scoring era in NBA history, probably.
And now I think you'd be Chris Paul's not jacking up a ton of threes, but he's one of the best point guards in the league.
For sure.
Maybe one of the best point guards ever.
Yeah.
So I feel like you would actually be better in today's NBA than you were back then.
You were a little bit before your time.
Man, maybe a little bit.
Is it true when you played the jazz in the playoffs, you told John Stockton there's a new white point guard in that?
That's not true.
I made that up.
I don't know.
I don't know who made it up.
John Stockton was a good player.
Was he talking shit?
He was a dirty player.
He didn't talk shit.
He's filthy, right?
He's a dirty player.
I'm not so sure how much Listerine he ever had in his mouth either.
Oh, that's fine.
That's what I was saying.
I mean, his hands, his hands were really big.
Hence, like he's dribbling.
He's right off the dribble.
Yeah.
Like 30 feet, but his hands were big.
Yeah, he played just a, I won't say dirty because dirty is kind of like everybody says shit.
Yeah.
Like dirty, like grabbing your shorts on a spike screen or stepping on your foot so you slow down a little bit.
And like in the NBA, all you need is like a half second, whether you're open or closed.
Yeah.
Or guarded.
I've heard that about John before.
So the competitive advantage, he had quick hands, big hands, a lot of control, but also he was trying to.
Yeah, and he got away with a lot of shit too.
The refs got to let him and Carl Malone get away with a lot of stuff in Salt Lake City.
So here's the question.
What is it like running into a Carl Malone screen?
I try to never do it for one, but my goal.
I'm just putting you in that pickup, for sure.
But my goal, I was just going to go under it every time.
Every time I played against John Stockton, the game plan was to go under just to entice him to shoot the jump shot.
Because if you try to go over the screen, now he's in front of you and Carl Malone's rolling.
Forget it.
Right.
Forget it.
100%.
But my goal was against Carl Malone.
I know it wasn't getting over the screen.
There's no, no, my only goal was just to try to put my elbow right in his thigh.
Every single time?
Every time, just maybe one time I hit him good.
And the next time he's going to come and screaming, he was thinking about, man, is he going to put his elbow?
And if he moved it, I maybe both slide through there.
Did it work?
Nothing.
Nope.
Nope.
Carl Malone, bad boy.
Yeah.
Bad move.
Yeah, bro.
Yeah.
Jerry Sloan, too.
Rest his soul.
Yeah.
Man, I think I would have liked to play for Jerry Sloan.
I say that from the outside, but once I got in that fire, he and I probably would have wrestled a lot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think he'd let you be free.
No, sir.
Also, guys, Akash Locks are back.
Look, I'm going to be honest.
I didn't do great last week, but I still believe in myself.
And that's what's important.
And even if you don't believe in me, go to prizepicks.com.
Download the app.
Use the promo code Schultz.
They will match your initial deposit up to $100.
That means if you put in $100, you get $100 for free.
So you could trust my locks or don't.
Who cares?
But here's my locks.
CeeDee Lamb, more than 76.5 receiving yards.
He's been on a fucking roll.
The Cowboys offense sucks without him.
I believe in that one.
I also think Joe Mixon will get a TD of some kind.
I just trust them.
Who are the Bengals playing again?
Miles hit me with it.
The Texans.
The Texans defense I don't really trust.
You could also potentially go Jamar Chase, 84 and a half receiving yards more or less.
I don't know.
84 and a half is high, but I also know the Texans defense didn't look great last week in the Cincinnati offense did.
So those are my locks.
Go to prize picks.
Use them or don't.
Either way, you'll have fun.
It seemed like most of your coaches really let you flourish.
Big Shots And Rolls00:14:59
Well, I didn't have much choice.
That's the other thing.
Now, when I got to Pat Riley in Miami, I kind of, people say, well, you kind of settled it down a little bit.
What was this different offense?
You know, we got Shaq and got D-Wade.
Yeah.
You know, those guys got to have the ball.
So, you know, we go down two or three trips and Shaq can't touch the ball.
He'd be like, hey, I need the ball.
I'm like, what Pat called 62?
It don't matter.
Is Pat out here?
Pat's not out here.
Throw me the ball.
Do you think it's true that Pat saw what he had and then came down?
I'm not so sure.
Pat was the president at the time.
Stan Bear Gundy was the head coach.
Yeah, for like two weeks.
And then six years.
Yeah.
I don't know if I don't think, no, I don't think.
I don't think that's how it went down.
I think, I don't know, though.
Yeah.
But my opinion is maybe Coach Van Gundy didn't really want to be in that situation anymore and maybe went upstairs and talked to Pat Well, how can we resolve this?
And Pat was like, well, shoot, I know a way.
We could disagree.
Yeah, we could discuss.
So I think that's what happened.
Did you hear?
And I don't want to get you to snitch on anybody, so you don't have to answer this, but did you hear grumblings from players?
Like, I don't know if this guy can't understand.
No, I never heard that because on that team, bro, with all those Hall of Famers and players that we had, it was like anybody could coach that team, right?
He just had to tell us what time the bus was and what time the plane was.
But no, I wasn't in that group of players.
I wasn't ever in that situation in my career where I was in those type of conversations about anybody.
You know what I mean?
So, no.
When you go to the heat, do you notice one distinct difference between what a championship team is and what you'd been on before?
For sure.
And what is that?
Just day one at training camp in Miami, our only goal was to win a championship.
Whereas I think maybe when I play for Sacramento, I don't know.
I never really ever got that vibe ever.
Oh, wow.
I mean, maybe just because it was Shaq and Kobe out there.
You're going up against the Shaq and Kobe Lakers.
So there's that.
And I don't, honestly, down deep, I don't know if we really thought we were good enough to win a championship.
Winning a championship is hard, man.
Like in all levels, bro.
I heard you say this.
You said it twice on All the Smoke.
You said, we didn't understand what it really takes to win a championship.
Then you said again, what it really takes.
What does it really take?
Man, it just takes, it just takes so much.
It's going to be like so much more like film, everything on a different level from film to, I know you hear it all the time, taking care of your body and things like that.
And yeah, NBA guys do what they do, but come seven o'clock, they're going to be ready to play.
And it's just, it's just the ride to the championship is more enjoyable than I think actually winning it because it's just us 15 guys.
We've been together for over half a year.
We're with one another more than we are our families during the championship.
And you guys were locked in?
Locked in, bro.
Who do you think you were closest with on that team?
All 15.
I know it sounds cliche, bro.
It does, but I think that's what it takes, man.
Like I've been on a bunch of different teams and a handful of them like we could all go hang out and have dinner together.
Like that's so rare.
And if you can do that off the floor and have that kind of relationship, then on the floor when push comes to shove, you're definitely going to trust that guy because you already know what time it is.
You know what I mean?
Let's talk a little bit about NBA players do what they do because they've loosened things a little bit.
Like we, you can, you know, it's cool now.
And then we hear the stories of like the Bulls back in the day, like the gambling and all that shit, the partying and then coming straight from Vegas and all that stuff.
What is some of the craziest stories that we don't know about?
Thank you for finally asking that.
That's a good one, man.
That won't get you or anyone drunk.
Well, I mean, all the stories you hear are probably pretty much true, right?
I mean, NBA guys are just different.
We don't know that, but different in what way?
Man, just...
You have to name names.
What's the wildest thing you saw?
Yeah.
Where you were like...
Because you weren't part of them, really.
No, I didn't go out, bro.
I didn't go to no clubs or anything like that.
But for the heat, though, like when I played for the heat, it was like, you know, Shaq and D-Wade, pretty big stars, right?
So any city we go to, they're having a party.
One's having a party here, one's having a party here.
They're having separate parties for the same city.
But that party's going to revenue at the hotel.
Oh, boy.
Yeah, so I mean, and other girls just waiting, probably.
You know, for sure.
Like, the NBA is like, I don't, I didn't get into that.
You know, like I said, I didn't go to clubs and anything like that.
But to answer your question, absolutely.
Really?
I mean, it's just like every city.
Because we would hear about the girls that would just like stop.
Find your hotel room.
Because they're breaking off the Bellman.
The Bellman's telling, oh, yeah, the Spurs will be here Thursday to Saturday type shit.
You know what I mean?
So they know when they're coming.
What was your nickname for D-Wade again?
Booby.
And why'd you call him that?
Well, the Friday Night Lights.
Yeah.
Oh, Friday.
If you want to win, let Booby spin.
And I'll tell Pat Riley, we'd be down in fourth court and D-Wade's on the Pat, you want to win?
You better put Booby's ass back in.
Pat Riley was cool, man.
Cool as a fan.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, obviously, as a Nick fan, you know, I mean, he titled players.
What is the relationship and why is he looked at as the godfather outside of his like hairstyle?
Like, what he does.
I mean, he's just, he's just looking out for the cookout, man.
He takes care of his players.
And like, the Miami Heat organization is the best organization I've ever been a part of.
Like, why?
Top to bottom, just because the way they treat their players, the way they treat their family, the way they treat anybody that needs to be treated some type of way that's just first class.
What are some of the things they do?
Like, say the owner wants us to stay in a, we go to Dallas and he wants to stay at a, let's just say, a Motel 6.
Well, Pat Riley ain't having that because Pat Riley, if he was going to Dallas on his own, he's not staying at a Motel 6.
So we're going to stay at the Ritz Carlton order four seasons.
Wherever Pat stays, that's what it's.
And Pat will pick up whatever the difference was from the hotel.
Wow.
Right?
So.
See, these are things we don't hear about with Pat.
I mean, it's like it's Pat's system.
Yeah, you hear about heat culture.
But heat culture is really letting the players know that if you buy in, you are going to be 100% taken care of.
That's right.
Your family.
You want to have a chance to win too, right?
There's always going to be a chance to win in Miami.
Would you have like sit-downs with Pat?
No, not probably not cordial sit-downs, probably more like, you know, I'm getting in trouble type shit.
Like, what did you get in trouble for?
I mean, you know, it's just, it's like, Pat wrote these things on the board.
Like every game, he would mark players like if you were help side D, you get a point.
If you weren't, you minus.
Yeah.
That type shit.
So every morning we come into practice and shine.
Wow, he's doing the plus minus before it's even a statistic in the league.
Do you guys know what the plus minus statistic is?
It's basically, you can explain it.
I thought it was a stat at that point.
Like if they're running a side pick and roll and your guy, you're guarding the guy on the opposite side, your job defensively is to be in the middle of the floor, to be the help.
If you're not there, you get a minus.
It's like his own plus.
Little things like that.
The plus minus in the league now is just like while you're on the floor, is your team scoring more points or less points than the other team?
But this is like an even more sophisticated shit.
Yeah, like all the analytics shit you hear all this bottle into that.
So next morning, you know, how much am I helping how much am I hurting?
And that's accountability.
You get to look at a number easy.
And now I'm not being hard at you, hard on you.
This is the thing that happens.
So every morning we come in and Shaq D. Wade, all five starters, the last five.
He's preaching all year.
Look, whoever has the highest numbers this year, they're playing the minutes.
They're playing the minute.
Earl Baron, remember Earl Baron?
Yep.
Yeah.
He had off-the-chart numbers, but he only played averaged like 0.3 minutes, right?
Oh, we're playing the guys with the high numbers.
I'm like, Pat, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
What do you mean?
Oh, he didn't like that.
He didn't like that.
You put all these numbers up here.
Shaq and D. Wade, our best two players.
Look, they're garbage.
Look, but they average 35 minutes a night.
So you need to take that shit.
The numbers mysteriously disappeared.
Oh, shit.
Mysterious.
I don't think, I think, I think Coach Riley was like, he was the kind of guy, like, don't really like confrontation.
He likes dishing it, but you know what I'm saying?
He doesn't want to push back.
I think he don't really need pushback in front of people.
May he allow the pushback in his office.
But I'm the type of guy, like shit, it is what it is.
You know what I mean?
You're pushing forward in public.
I'm pushing back.
Of course.
I mean, why not, right?
Yeah.
And I think that sometimes he gets credit for reining you in or whoever you played with the Miami Heat.
Would you say that that was more of a decision you made based on the personnel on the team?
For sure.
I mean, it's just, we didn't run many fast breaks because, like I said earlier, we got to slow the ball down and get the ball to D-Way and shot.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, and again, I'm not out on a fast break looking to throw behind the back passes.
If it just, if it happens, it happens.
Like sometimes, like, if I'm swinging the ball, if you got the ball there and I'm trying to get it over there and you swing it to me, for me to take this pass and take it from here to here as opposed to here to there is quicker, yeah.
Yeah.
So, and like I said earlier, if I take one more drip, if Ray Allen's open in the corner and I take one more dribble, he's not open anymore.
You know what I mean?
So he needs that ball right now because that defender is good enough to respond.
NBA Finals, probably less than a minute left.
Baseline jumper that you hit.
Do you remember?
I do.
If we're looking at TV, it's down here in this corner.
Biggest shot in your career?
That's to go up to the game was tied.
It probably felt like the biggest shot.
I've probably made bigger shots in my career, maybe, but I mean, what could be bigger than NBA Finals?
Is it the game?
Sears?
Is that the Sears ending game?
It might have been, but I'm thinking not even a shot would be the biggest spot.
I remember coming down and I threw a behind, I threw a behind the back pass to Alonzo Morning.
And Devin Harris's ass, I looked at the film, he just damn shocked me right into the cameras.
And they didn't call no foul, but Zoe dunked it.
I think that felt better to me because it felt like that just put him out of reach for sure.
Okay, okay.
So it wasn't just the lead, it was closed out the game.
Yeah.
But still, it was a ballsy shot.
I mean, I don't even know if it was the end of the shot clock, but I remember watching it.
I remember seeing you.
You weren't exactly open, but you didn't even think about it.
Like I said earlier, I initiated the offense.
I stand in the corner, and them dudes always told me: if you get the ball in the corner, toss that.
Shoot it.
I'm not throwing it to you just to throw it to you.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So I'm like, you got it.
I'll fire it up.
How is Shaq as a teammate?
Shaq's great, bro.
Everything you see on Shaq on TV, bro, that's exactly how it is.
Seems like the best.
It's not a fake at all, dog.
I mean, that is the way it is, bro.
Yeah.
Real as it gets.
And you guys would hang out like off the court?
We would.
He used to live in Orlando too, but he sold his house there in Orlando since he's working for Turner.
I guess he's in Atlanta now.
But yeah, man, that's that dude there, bro.
There's not a better human being in this whole wide world than Shaq, man.
Really?
I'm telling you.
Wait, why do you say that?
Just because he's just always looking out for everyone.
Like, I mean, you see the stories being at Walmart or whatnot and seeing a family with five people, whatnot.
He ended up buying him a van.
You know what I mean?
That kind of stuff.
Yeah.
It's like Mr. Beast, but not for you two.
Yeah, sneakers would sell at Walmart or whatnot for like 30 bucks.
He made them cheaper.
So it all.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's that's the real shock, man.
That's not a facade, bro.
You see on TV from Shaq.
That's who he is.
That's who he is, man.
How different was his physical ability from the Lakers to the Heat?
Oh, because you played with him and then against him.
Yeah, I didn't see much.
Maybe his athleticism, maybe a little bit.
He didn't jump as high, but Shaq is the most dominant player to ever play basketball to me.
It made him change the rules to his own.
Yeah.
I mean, like, you can't stop that dude one-on-one.
Yeah.
And then you send a double team down, which is usually a little guy like me.
Forget it.
He's not seeing none of that, bro.
He's going to eat all of us on the way.
Do you have any stories where Shaq helps someone out that people don't know?
That you saw where you're like, oh, he picked up a tab here or did something for someone?
No, I've never seen it.
Like I said, I didn't really go out, things like that.
So I wasn't ever in that situation.
Yeah.
What about the greats?
What about the greats?
Great, greatest you've played with against.
Like, who are the people that you remember?
You're like reflecting.
And, you know, you hear obviously names, Kobe, Dwayne.
Every night, man, it was like a dream come true for me, bro.
Like, remember Speedy Claxton?
Yeah, of course.
Bro, like, people ask me all the time who's the hardest dude to guard.
And Speedy Claxton was like Stony Brook, right?
Hofstra.
Or Hofstra, Long Island.
I knew he was in Long Island school, yeah.
Like, they were really, like, when he played in Golden State, he had Speedy Claxton with him, bruh.
And he had four white dudes that could shoot to John Ryan.
And they were really the first team that really ran four guys out and just shooting three.
So they ran a high pick and roll with Speedy Claxton.
They had Dunlevy and Troy Murphy.
Troy Murphy.
Yeah.
Bro.
And that high pick and roll with Speedy.
He was so fast.
And if he got around you, it was a layup.
And then if the help came, it was just spraying it for three.
So when people ask me who was one of the hardest people I had to guard, well, I say Speedy Claxton.
They're like, fuck, Speedy Claxton.
You know what I mean?
What about most underrated player?
It doesn't mean you have to guard him, but just in general, who's the person you don't think gets enough flowers?
I'm going to say Andre Mill.
In my time, Andre Mill.
I like Andre Miller, dude.
Interesting.
Bro, like, he didn't even lace his shoes up tight.
Like, he would look just old school, like, take his shoestring around his ankle and then time in the front.
Okay.
And this shit would be so loose.
And it's like, his game was so awkward.
And it's like, if you watched it from afar, you'd think he was garbage.
Yeah.
But at the end of the night, you look at the stat sheet and he's out like 27.
He played for a while.
12.
Yeah.
12.
Like, unbelievable.
So that's the answer.
Like, and a lot, eight out of 10 folks, I didn't even know who Andre Miller is.
Yeah.
I feel like you were playing while the league was transitioning to like, I would say, a softer league.
Right.
But do you feel like right now versus when you started, is the league soft?
I don't want to use the word soft.
I just want to say I think the league has made it more offensive.
You know, kind of take the defense out of the game.
They've incentivized the offense.
They don't want to see flagrant fouls.
You know, the flagrant fouls, they get fine.
And then, you know, we're going to review and all that shit.
Like, just let the refs, let the refs ref.
They're going to miss calls.
Yeah.
You know, just like players are going to miss shots, right?
Let them be human.
Like, so to answer your question, I don't think it's softer.
I think the players are still physically and physically dominant more than any other sport.
You know what I mean?
I think NBA athletes are the best athletes in the world.
I'm not being biased.
I just think that those guys have a better chance to crossing over to a different sport and being successful easier than, say, a football or hockey or baseball guy coming to play basketball.
I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion.
You know what I mean?
Sorry, you played for the Heat.
Human Errors On Court00:15:09
You guys were talking about it.
You're down 0-2.
You're down 14 in the fourth.
I'm a Mavs fan.
I'm ready.
I think it's over.
What happens?
Is there something in that huddle?
I heard Pat Riley just wrote season on the whiteboard during a timeout.
Does any of that stuff matter, or is it just...
It's not sure.
He wrote like, he wrote, I don't remember the exact words, but it was like something along the lines, I'm only packing one tie, one suit after this game.
During the timeout when you're down 14?
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
I mean, he could have just meant you're getting swept.
It was close.
It was close.
Oh, but believe me, I know.
That timeout killed him, man.
I'm telling you, that timeout was all downhill.
Anyway, what happened?
Well, there was a free throw.
We were shooting a free throw.
No, they were shooting a free throw.
No, we were shooting a free throw, and there was like eight seconds or something like that left.
I think I remember this, yeah.
And they only had one timeout left.
So they would wait till after the second foul shot to call timeout, and then they advanced the ball and take it out up there on the front court.
So Avery Johnson was like, we want to time out after the, you know, well, what was his name?
Oh, damn, I forget his name.
He, Josh, Josh something.
Josh Howard.
Josh Howard.
Yeah.
He was looking at Avery Johnson's calling and want a timeout after the after the second free throw.
Well, Josh, Joey Crawford, the referee didn't have any choice, but he got to call.
You got to blow the whistle and call the timeout right now.
So now they're out of timeouts.
They can't advance the ball.
And, you know, they got to race up the floor like six, seven seconds and get a bad shot.
Wow.
Is Joey Crawford as mean as everybody says?
No, I think he was fair, man.
Even Scott Foster, the guy that got in, not Scott Foster, the Donnie.
Yeah, he gave y'all that championship too.
Yeah, he was fair.
You know, honestly, I thought he was one of the better refs in the league, bro.
I never would imagine.
People are gambling on you.
Looking back.
That's what everybody said.
He's a piece of shit.
That's right.
And look back on it.
It's easy for a referee to gamble because if you call, if you call two quick fouls on Shaq in the first quarter, he's out.
He got to stay out the rest of the half.
So you might have over or under in the first half or whatever.
That's really interesting.
You could change the game.
Two little calls.
Yeah.
Two little calls.
You take 10 minutes off of Shaq playing or a technical early on on Draymond Green in the first quarter.
Now he got to play the rest of the game without cautious.
He's not talking to sound.
He's not into it.
So you could change the game.
Yeah, it's not about waving off a shot.
It's not about waving.
You could change the game the first fucking quarter.
I feel like he's the only one who got caught.
Yeah, because that's because other guys might have danced.
Because how much of these guys are getting paid?
That's the other thing.
They got a lot of responsibility for not making a lot of money.
And usually, when there are jobs where you have a lot of responsibility and you aren't getting paid according to that responsibility, there's some corruption.
For sure.
Like you see that with cops a lot, right?
Like all aspects of life, bro.
Yeah.
There's levels to everything and everything, right?
And what about like vets?
Like, did you think the vets get a little bit nicer treatment?
I don't say the vets.
I think the guys, the stars, for sure.
Yeah.
I mean, and did you get a little like, did you not think them referees?
Was fuck them referees.
I love them all.
I had a good relationship with all of them, but I didn't get nothing.
No.
Nah.
What did you want?
What did you do?
I mean, I just wanted to be fair.
Push me and just call a foul.
Yeah.
I mean, a little push on me is sending my little ass way over there.
And then, you know, you breathe on Steph Curry or what this thing of stars name, you know, they get the foul call, right?
Yeah.
I don't like that.
Now, I understand that he's going to get more calls than me.
Yeah.
But God damn, throw me a bone every now and then.
Yeah.
Did you get into it with a ref?
Of course I did.
I mean, they were like, it was yesterday.
It was in Dallas and back of their old arena.
Their old arena.
Yeah, it's like you had to, you had to, both teams exited the same side down there on that end, but our visiting bench was away.
Most, most, most teams come out of the locker room and their bench is right there.
So I'm interviewing with Bob Delaney.
I'm in his, I mean, I'm in.
I'm like, fuck.
And he's like, yeah, keep on going.
And when you're done, let me know.
Then we're going to throw you out of here.
So I'm like, all right, well, fuck it.
I kept on going a little bit longer than expected, right?
And she said, are you done?
I said, yeah, I'm done.
He said, bang, all right, now you're out of here.
And I'm still cussing.
I'm walking towards my bench, going to the locker room, right?
Matter and hell got kicked out, cussing him the whole way.
And I get down there and I realize, fuck, I got to walk all the way.
So, I mean, I didn't have no choice but to start cussing him back on.
But yeah, that was probably the coolest one.
That was the coolest one.
He saw me walking out of there and gave me a big hug after the game.
It was good.
Your boy Nick was telling me when you were playing at Mensley, you got into it with a ref one time.
No.
Men's Lee.
I get into refs, man.
Like one time maybe you were running at them.
Well, there's multiple.
Multiple.
They're going to awesome displays.
Look, these referees in these men's leagues have no idea, right?
They're just happy, really happy to see me.
Let's just keep it real.
They're happy to be ref in my game, right?
So these refs start cheating, and I'll just get You're an NBA player playing with guys that work at UPS.
I ain't got nothing to do with that, though.
Just because I worked a little harder on my ball handle doesn't mean, you know, a foul is a foul.
Okay.
And now I'm to the point now, back it up a little bit.
We're just talking about the stars getting called.
I'm the goddamn star now.
That's right.
And they're thinking the opposite way.
They're like, no, you're not.
They're thinking like you.
I'll play in the NBA.
You can foul the shit out of me.
Well, what type of shit is that?
That's like the point.
That's like the argument.
That's like the argument when people talk about LeBron and Jordan.
Yeah.
They talk about, well, the bad boy Pistons beat LeBron or Jordan up.
LeBron couldn't handle it.
Well, no, you're saying that the Bad Boy Pistons was good because they just fucking took you out of legal parents?
That doesn't make them good.
But anyway, back to the rec league.
So the referees are cheating, whatever.
And I get to the point where I get the ball full speed and the refs, I'd run right at the ref, full speed, and skip, like dodging right at the last minute.
He's, you know, backing up damn near falling.
But I don't think that was the best one.
I think the best one, we're in Miami.
You know, that's the only thing that's going to be.
He crossed up the ref at any time.
He crossed the ref, bro.
I'm running right at the ref trying to run him over.
Yeah.
He tripped him.
The ref tripped.
Oh, man.
You dropped a ref with a cross-up?
Like I said earlier, the hell with these refs.
On all levels.
Now you break the refs.
Imagine the handles so good, you fucking break the ref.
That's crazy.
The best one, though, we're in Miami.
I got two good ones.
We got time for two.
We have been all that time.
We got to get Nick.
And we got to get it.
So look, we're playing Miami in the summer day.
I'm playing with Tim Hardaway Sr.
He's the greatest.
He's like, wow, that crossover was.
He's like our idol now when it comes to referees.
So we're playing, he gets kicked out of the game.
It's like, we got, we're three minutes into the game.
He gets kicked out.
He's got the ball with him.
Won't let nobody have the ball.
So he's like, fuck, y'all want the ball?
You had a ball.
You know, laced his shoes up on the way out.
He unplugged the scoreboard.
Boom, bomb.
From the scores table.
Took that with him.
So nobody else could play the rest of the night.
I was like, hold on, hold on.
If I could have that scoreboard signed by Tim Hardaway, bro, I'm sorry.
I thought this was an NBA game.
No, This is a rec league.
So he's taking my ball.
I'm going home.
They took the scoreboard.
Wait, how many ex-NBA guys are hooping in this league?
It's a pretty good league.
Oh, so this is high, high.
So it's my turn the next week.
I'm in the same referee.
Tim's not there.
You got to sit out again, right?
No fine, no, no, no money.
So we're same referee cheating us.
We're down.
I'm getting cheated, bro.
We're down.
We can't win.
It's like we're down five with like four seconds.
Okay.
But it's our ball.
Okay.
Call timeout just to piss the refs off to get going.
So I'm like, tell the guys, like, just do whatever you want.
I'm going to bring the ball inbounds.
So Ref hands me the ball.
And I don't know if y'all know Ref's got the whistle in his mouth.
And as soon as he hands the inbound of the ball, he's going to count.
You only got five seconds to bring it in.
So he's one.
Two.
And I'm like, I already know what I'm going to do.
Nobody knows, though.
Ref's standing right there with the whistle.
Boom.
So when he gets to five, he's going to blow his whistle called delay a game, whatever.
He gets to four and he gets about right there.
Boy, I yanked the whistle out of him.
So now, he's standing there like, what you gonna do?
What you gonna do?
So, so, so, uh, he was like, that's the game.
That's the game.
That's the game over.
That was my favorite one.
You love this rec league, bro.
So, NBA guys just go to rec league to torture refs because they could never do it in the league.
Well, no, no, necessarily.
We're going to torture the refs if they try to act like they know what they're doing.
Got you.
They got no clue.
They got played in the big three.
We did.
That's what the need is.
I played the first year, yeah, and I tore the ACL the first half of the first game.
What happened?
You know what, man?
I was just, it was crazy, man.
I was just dribbling.
I did a jump.
You're trying to crossover and ref.
Nah, them refs, it wasn't full court, so they wasn't in my way.
Like, I just jump stopped, bro, and it just felt like my knee felt like it kept going.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And then it started burning.
It was badness.
Were you warmed up for it?
Had you had knee problems before?
Like, I'm just...
Never had an injury before.
I mean, I twisted an ankle.
Yeah.
Never a significant injury.
Did you have the, was it, Osgood Schlotters or whatever that shit is called?
Like, you used to wear those little...
I wore those little fluke things because Vince Carter wore them.
And I thought, man, hell, maybe I'll start jumping a little bit higher.
So I started wearing them because you were wearing them.
And then I couldn't play without them.
No.
Yeah, I think I got so used to them playing.
But I mean, I thought they looked cool, too.
I thought this was a health thing because I would have...
Sometimes when you're growing, when you're younger, you can get some pain breaks.
Yeah, but they didn't help me.
But I was like, ah, Jason got it.
I was just trying to jump like Vince.
Motherfucker.
That's so funny.
This rec league was mostly like ex-NBA guys, but apparently there were some current NBA guys that might also play in the Wreck League.
Is that true?
Like maybe if you were playing for the Magic, would you ever sometimes go play?
Oh, yeah.
You brought fucking ringers to the men's Wreckley.
Just me.
He's the ringer.
So I'm while you were playing?
I'm on the Magic's roster, right?
And they started, they signed Chris Duhant to be their backup.
Give him some money.
I love Chris Duhont.
Yeah, do it.
Bad decision.
Orlando Magic.
You know how the Heat's the best organization in the world?
Orlando's the worst.
What?
Don't tell me that, bro.
Don't tell me that from Orlando.
Don't tell me that.
Chris liked to throw him back, too.
Chris is my guy.
I ain't mad at Chris at all.
He'll get all that bread, but that organization, you guys see the garbage truck driving around, right?
You see the juice that's dripping from the back.
That's the magic.
Don't say not the organization.
Not telling me.
Not the team.
Not the player.
The organization, bro.
Like, the organization just got the wrong people running it, man.
That's my opinion.
What do I know?
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
I just, I just.
And you got some money out of them?
I'm just, yeah.
I mean, I'm just, I'm just putting levels.
You know, the heat is here.
Yeah.
I can only do what I, I can only tell you what I know, right?
Yeah.
And it's just.
What was so bad?
It's just no care about the players?
No, or players that have been through there, too, they don't even care about.
I could call Miami.
I could call Memphis.
I could call Sacramento.
Yeah.
And we all could go to the game and we're all sitting on the floor.
But you live in Orlando.
I'm right there.
I've been trying to get to Orlando since day one.
Let's rewind all the way back to the beginning of my draft.
Chuck Daly, did I tell you this story?
Rest his soul.
He was the coach of the Magic.
And me, I wanted to go to get drafted by the Magic my year, but they had 11th pick.
I knew it wasn't going to make it that far.
So we had Bryce Drew.
Remember Bryce Drew from Valprazo?
Hit that shot and then dove on the floor in the NCAA tournament?
Okay.
Another white dude.
He's another white dude, about my size.
We went down there and worked out one time and I did my thing against Bryce Drew that day and their general manager called my agent back and said, we'd like to bring Jason and Bryce back in.
We didn't know who was more athletic.
Well, that lit a fire under my ass because that's another reason the magic organization.
That.
How could they not know?
Oh my God.
This is like, it's night and day.
So we go back, we set it up.
Sure, let's set that up.
I told my agent, let's set that up.
So they're thinking about driving Bryce Drew before me.
Crazy.
Right.
So we go in, we go in and work out.
Before the workout starts, I go over to Chuck Daly and says, come here.
He says, look, I know who's more athletic.
I know who's more talented.
They want to do this.
We're going to play one-on-one right from the get-go.
I got a tea time in an hour.
Let's have this thing over in about 20 minutes.
I said, yes, sir.
How long?
How long?
Shit.
Bryce Drew got a better chance pissed in a hot sauce bottle.
I'm telling you.
Ain't no chance.
Now, what happens to those guys in their workout?
They're fighting for their life and you're cooking them.
Like I said, does it get chippy or they just melt?
It's probably the same way as when I got to try to guard Russell Westbrook.
That's the way I feel.
Like, fuck am I going to do?
Yeah, what happens with Russ?
You just got to hope he misses.
And you're just backing off.
Just trying to get a hand in his face.
If I get a hand in your face, like Allen Iverson, if I get a hand up and you make that jump shot, what can coach say?
That's right.
Now my big guy's not mad at me from coming over to help, not getting in, found trouble.
Yeah.
Let's go.
Back down.
What the hell?
Yeah.
Wow.
So Orlando sucks, huh?
To me, man.
They got the players.
They got the talent.
They got all kinds of talent.
But you would play Wreckley and Matt.
Oh, yeah, back to the store.
So back then when they signed Chris Dewon, I was out of the rotation.
So I'd be at practice all day or whatnot.
I'm like, well, shit, I got it.
We got a game at seven at the Rec.
I go, we practice from like two to four, and then I go play in the men's league at seven.
So general, what is it?
They're paying you millions of dollars.
And then you're playing for free.
That's right.
So Oda Smith was the general manager at the time, called my agent, like, hey, look, Dan, he can't be playing in the rec leagues.
He said, well, shit, he got to get his run somewhere.
You know what I mean?
And I always had, like, I don't know how many guys if they still have it, like a for the love of the game clause in a contract.
So it's like, yeah, so you explain that.
So if something, like I'm driving home from practice or something, I see a pickup game and I want to go hoop.
You can do it.
Right.
If I get hurt, I'm still got to get my bread.
Yeah.
There's a contractual, I guess, permission to play whenever you want.
Street Ball Versus NBA00:02:12
I don't know if you love that or not.
I thought they stopped that like when you saw Kobe started playing in like street ball leagues and then they were like, yo, we got to chill off if you get hurt.
Well, I think like the Drew League and things like that, or Rucker Parker was a carve outs or like if they get NBA sanctioned, then you can do it.
Where the NBA could come in and check out the facilities and shit, like the floor, make sure all that shit, you know, like Rucker Park was.
Yeah, like I don't know if Rucker Park was, I don't know what the rules were.
Did you ever play up there?
No, I was just talking about.
I think fucked the channel.
I know, bro.
I wish I would have.
We were talking about Ryan.
I've never even been there.
I want to go step foot on the Rucker Parker.
What about Drew?
No, they tried to get me to play later on in my career, but it was, I didn't have what the Drew Lig fat crowd wanted.
You know what I mean?
I feel like you do.
Oh, yes.
You have exactly that.
I feel like...
Mine is the skip.
You're a little like kid.
But outside of that, I didn't do it what they wanted.
I think, you know, that's another thing, like the black and white issue.
Like, once you get on the court, bro, if the bruhs or the white boys could see that you could hoop, they didn't care what color you were.
So you know, it's funny, there's like, I think that there's all this credit, like that you were hooping like a black dude, but I don't know any black dudes in the NBA that were hooping like you.
I think we saw street ball, but you were playing in such a unique way that it was always really funny to me that people ultimate street crack.
You play like street ball of course, 100%.
But it was like, even the name White Chocolate, right?
It was as if like every other black dude was playing like this.
And it's like, no, they weren't.
Like, and even when Rafer came into the league, Rafer wasn't getting off like he would get off in and one.
Yeah, I don't know if I don't know if Rafer had the opportunity.
You didn't have the opportunity.
You just did the shit.
Well, I mean, like when I got drafted, you know, I was the only point guard on the team.
So I had the keys.
I was going to rock.
He let me rock.
And Rick Allen, shout out to Rick Allen, our coach for Sacramento.
He told me in the first game, he said, you know, if you come down and throw it behind the back pass and it goes out of bounds, he said, don't worry about it.
Next time, try it with your left hand.
So hearing that kind of like.
First time you've ever heard that from a coach, probably.
I mean, or maybe, maybe I was told I wasn't listening.
Dr Squatch Soap Deal00:03:21
I was going to do what I wanted to do.
Did that fuck with you a little bit?
Or did it put a battery in your backtalk?
I think it kind of put a battery in back because it's kind of like, look, he got my back, man.
He's like, he knows I'm trying to win.
So whatever I got to do to win, that's what I'm going to try to do.
Yeah.
Did you ever have, like, you obviously have all these amazing passes and assists.
Did you ever have one that was embarrassing where you were like, yo, I'm going to do one behind the back?
And it just went all the way up in the stands.
You're like, oh, fuck.
I'll probably have more than one, brother.
Try not to remember him.
Probably more so in practice.
Yeah.
Like in practice, I didn't really care.
You know, like it was back to the point, like, if I mess up so many times, what are you going to do?
Make me run.
Well, that's just going to benefit me.
So I'm thinking, yeah, because at the end of practice, we're going to run as a team, but I ain't going to run as hard as if I got in trouble over here running by myself because I'm going to try to run hard and get back in the game.
Wow.
You know what I mean?
At the end of practice, fuck.
I don't care about that.
That's a cool perspective.
You can't punish me because it's just going to be a little bit of a damage.
No, I said I'm like, yeah.
That's cool.
Like, now all these high school kids like going to school on Tuesdays and Thursdays and homeschool and stuff like that.
Where was that shit when I was around?
I would have been somebody if I could hoop all day, every day.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
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Personal Accountability Matters00:14:25
Now let's get back to the show.
They did make apparently a rule for you or a rule about you, apparently after you retired and then you went back in the league.
Apparently you retired because you were going to the Clippers and you were like, I don't really want to do that.
And so you retired and then you went back with the magic, right?
But with the Grizzlies.
And with the Grizzlies, yeah.
And so what was the law that could have put in?
I forget the name of that law.
I forget, like, they did name it something.
Yeah.
I think they called the Jason Williams law.
Maybe.
Like the Larry Bird rule, Larry Bird rights or whatever.
How about the I don't want to play for Donald Sterling rule?
How about that?
Well, there's some stuff went down, you know, and over the summer, I signed.
There you go.
But yeah, I think that was the best thing happened for me is not to go to L.A., probably.
I mean, definitely, I was going to play for the, not that it mattered about the money, but I was going to play for the league minimum on that deal.
And by the time my wife and my kids got out there and we rented a house and shopping and all that shit, I'd have been in the red, bro.
So it's probably...
Wow.
100%.
So did you retire because you didn't want to go to the franchise?
Because you were done.
You felt like you were injured.
Or like, what brought you back ultimately?
I think maybe Michael Heisley was the owner.
God rest his soul.
He was the owner of the Grizzlies, paid me my first big contract, my only really big contract.
What was that one worth?
Like 40-something million.
How does that feel?
It felt great.
I mean, it ain't shit today, but it rationalize it.
I mean, like, does it even make sense?
It doesn't.
It didn't make any sense.
Like, like.
Your grandma's giving you a dollar and all your boys a dollar to get a big goal.
And in that moment as a kid, you're like, I'm the richest guy on the fucking planet.
You couldn't tell me nothing.
And then you get a 40, how much?
40 43 or something?
43 million dollars.
Contract.
It was, it was, and they didn't really have to do it.
You know, my agent was like, he told, it was like on a Friday.
They were having discussions.
Like, Friday, he called me and it's like, they're going to offer you 40 million.
But I said, but the what?
But what?
He said, we're going to wait till Monday.
Maybe I'll get you some more.
And I'm thinking, well, what if they change their mind?
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Were there other offers out there?
You never know.
Well, that happens, maybe.
Something happened with the German kid.
Yeah.
Well, what if the owner's buddy comes in and says, hey, man, why would you sign that kid for that when you can get him for this?
You're giving him three days to think about it.
Yeah, bro.
What's the kid's name?
Who he played great in the fee, the black German kid?
I can't believe.
Oh, Dennis Schroeder.
Dennis Schroeder.
Schroeder was offered.
He turned it down.
He turned it down.
Now, dude, is he turning it down or is his agent advising him, hey, turn this down?
We have something else.
And then he ends up getting a contract worth a fraction.
Dude, there was a guy who played for the Heat, Anthony Carter.
There was like an option on his deal for like $25 million.
And his agent forgot to make the call to the outline or whatever.
Something like that.
And then he lost $70 million in the 90s, bro.
Yeah, I don't think it's the agent's fault.
You need personal accountability.
At the end of the day, though, you're the guy.
Yep.
You're working for me.
100%.
You need personal accountability.
But I do understand a kid who's never been offered that kind of money and all these people telling him, oh, we got a deal coming in from this team and that team.
You can kind of get lost in it.
Okay, so you get your 43.
Do you sign it that Friday or do you wait till Monday?
Wait till Monday.
Oh, that must have been terrifying.
Awful cash.
I'd rather have not even told me the because if the deal wasn't there on Monday, Bill Pollock gets the ass whooping.
Yeah.
You had no choice.
Absolutely.
So you get it.
And then is there a first purchase?
Do you like tell your friends?
It's public knowledge, but like, do you feel like you have to share that info with your family?
Like, what is the first thing that happens?
I'm thinking so.
Yeah, for sure.
My dad.
My dad and I were close.
So he knows everything.
He's kind of really, if it wasn't for, he signed my agent for me, really.
He chose my agent.
I would have been, I would have took the first 5,000 you gave me from any agent and I'd have been stuck to, you know, so he knew what time it was with that.
So he interviewed different agents and picked this one.
I would have never picked this agent that I had.
Not never.
Because his personality wasn't like what I wanted or he and I were totally different.
But you needed that shit.
He was great.
Yeah.
He was great.
Think about that.
He connects you with Nick.
You hooping with Orlando.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
And how'd your dad know all this?
Was he like a businessman?
My dad was a state policeman in West Virginia, man.
Oh, wow.
No nonsense kind of guy.
And that, you know, when I got in trouble with smoking weed at Florida, I was more worried about him and what his friends were going to think of him.
Like, you've been a state police for 20-something years and now your son's smoking pot or whatever.
You know, like, how's that going to make him feel some type of way?
Yeah.
Did he?
I think it hurt him for sure.
But everything worked out, bro.
Could he hoop?
He was a good player.
He was a twin brother.
He had a twin.
He was a more all-around player, but his twin brother was a better shooter, better scorer.
But yeah, they were good players.
They couldn't receive a scholarship because they played in some kind of men's league growing up and received like a check or some money.
Yeah, so that's also probably where he was like, you got to be wise to have the right guy.
Okay, so 43, what do you buy?
First thing I bought was a Range Rover.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, I grew up in a trailer in West Virginia, bro.
Like, I never had a house until I got in the NBA.
Yeah.
But you couldn't tell me nothing, man.
And you got the range.
Yeah.
I bought some cars and things like that, but I never really splurged on like anything dumb.
I'm sure there was some dumb stuff, like a big-ass earring or some big old diamond number or something like that.
Yeah.
It wasn't dumb then.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
But you managed the money well.
Oh, yeah, I'm good with that.
You know what I mean?
I know you got other investments.
Yeah, things like that.
I've been pretty cool with that.
Just living life now, man.
Yeah.
You were talking about Orlando, and this has kind of been a news, a topic in the news.
Gay players in the NBA.
Yeah.
Like, is that something that's going down?
Do people know about it?
Does it shit?
Orlando had no, what's his name?
John Amichi.
He was one of the first ones to come out.
Yeah.
He was, yeah, he was the guy.
Does that throw off chemistry on a team?
Like, does a team not want to get also the Collins brother?
Yeah.
We always talk about how hard that is for the other brother.
Yeah.
They're twins and nobody knows which until it's too late.
Jason and Jason and Jared.
You got to come for the hairstyle deal or something, bro.
Go team at home or something.
For sure, it's definitely, there's definitely gay players in the NBA.
And it's like, there's probably gay players in all sports, right?
Probably gay guys in this room.
Maybe.
You never know.
Never know.
And it ain't nothing wrong with being gay, right?
You know what I mean?
That's what you want to do.
Dwight would take you guys on shopping sprees, right?
Wouldn't he?
The white man.
He would take us on shopping sprees.
Looking back on that, are you like, man, looking back on that?
I don't even know what's going on with that situation or what's real and what's not.
But all I can say is, bro, is one of the most dominant ball players ever.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Top for short.
Yeah.
For sure.
He would strap him on and just happen.
Yeah.
Big D.
He was the D player of the year.
Yeah.
No, but three times.
Three times.
But back to your question.
Shout out Dwight, though.
Shout out to Dwight.
Life should be top 75.
I don't care what's going on out there or over there.
It's top 75.
I don't think that's much attention played, especially to the early partner's career.
No.
That's Superman, bro.
It's crazy.
We're going to get back to the answer to that.
Yeah.
Like, how many guys play?
There's only been like 52, 5,300 dudes that's played in the NBA since its existence.
Did y'all know that?
Yeah.
So he, how many guys can you name that can change a game, the outcome of a game without scoring a basket?
How many?
Bill Russell.
Okay.
Dwight Howard.
Yeah.
Shaq, if he wants to.
Who else?
Just those three right there.
Come on, bro.
Maybe Wilt.
Like you're looking at like big guys, rebound, defense.
Dream.
Yeah, a little bit.
You know what I mean?
No, Dreamon in there.
Ben Wallace, maybe a little bit.
Oh, Ben Wallace, yeah.
But I hear you.
Yeah.
That's what I'm saying.
So, like, I said, all the other shit that he's got going on in his life, I don't know what's cracking over there.
And he was doing it with distraction, too.
That's the other thing.
Like, most players get to just focus on the game.
He's got to not think about how hot everyone is.
Yeah.
Come on, bro.
That's Superman, bro.
That's Superman.
Hey, Superman.
Yeah.
Come on.
You're right.
Hey, look.
Live your life, bro.
I never, when I played with him in Orlando, bro, I never got that vibe.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
I never, I mean.
But everybody that I've heard has said that he's the most generous, sweet teammate, like is in shape, is working out.
Yeah, they are in shape usually.
This guy's crazy.
Come on, bro.
He's crazy.
What is he even talking about?
NBA players are in shape, dude.
Come on.
For the most part.
Yeah, absolutely.
But Boxy, your question, though, like, for sure, I think, I don't think it messes with chemistry.
Like, if you got championship aspirations, like, realistically, look at it.
Like, at the beginning of every year in every sport, not just basketball, there's three or four or five teams that realistically have a chance to win a championship that year, right?
Like, you know, like the Viking, I'm a Viking fan.
They can't win a championship this year.
You know what I mean?
Or like the magic.
If they're down there in their locker room thinking about championship this year, they're bullshitting themselves, right?
You know what I mean?
Seriously.
So when it comes to that, if a gay guy is on a team that has championship aspirations, during those two hours for that game, it ain't going to affect the team at all, in my opinion, because he knows what time it is.
The gay guy knows what time it is when he gets on that court because he knows what these guys want to accomplish.
And if he got some bullshit coming in, these guys ain't going to allow that cat.
You heard Stephen A speculate that's why Dwight didn't get signed.
Right.
Because of that.
Like, do you think that would really stop a player from getting signed?
Me personally, no.
If I was an owner of a team, I'm trying to win.
So if you can help me win, I'm signing you, bro.
Like, like all this hoopla about Colin Kaepernick and things like that, I'm sure he can still play.
But I think if he was good enough to help an NFL team win, he'd be on the team.
They'll deal with all the other bullshit they had to deal with later.
Yo, I heard an interesting thing about Cam Newton because the Cam thing was, is he good enough to be a backup?
Yeah.
But the problem is, Cam ain't a backup.
And a buddy of mine, Derek Postman, was talking.
Remember, we were talking to Derek about this.
And he was like, yeah, Cam isn't a backup.
And he's going to just attract so much attention on that team that the second the starting quarterback has an off game, all of a sudden all the media is talking about, hey, why don't you put Cam in?
So it puts this pressure on the team that is unnecessary.
And looking at it like that, I was like, oh, it's not like hoops.
Hoops is a little different.
Like you want to stack your team.
You will get time.
Yeah.
Definite injuries and all that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's no backup quarterback that rotates in and out.
See, I think if you got a guy like Pat Riley running the show, he sees that before coming in, before I'm signing Cam Newton.
You know what I mean?
He sees that.
And he's already telling the media, look, if you write this bullshit, you won't be in our locker room.
You won't get no more interviews.
Oh, kidding.
Would Pat control that?
Pat Riley?
Like Tagger, say Tagger.
Tagger.
Yeah.
Pat Riley controls what if Pat Riley wants something, he's getting it.
Really?
Yeah.
So he is the godfather.
Fucking right.
And the players fall in line with that.
They respect it or what is it?
Yeah, they respect it because he respects them.
Like he's taking care of them.
He's protecting them.
He's putting you up at the four seasons instead of the Motel Six.
You know what I mean?
Do you wish you had played for him earlier?
No, not really, because I don't think I'd have been who I was.
Because he's, you know what I'm saying?
He's like.
It's tight leash.
Yeah, he's not going to, no fast breaks.
It's more half-court ball.
You know what I mean?
I can't, yeah, I can't imagine.
Defensive, too, defensive-minded.
They got to average more defense in three seconds than any team in the history of the NBA.
I mean, once you dare the referee to call it, dare you to call it.
Really?
Why?
Because they're just sitting in that paint.
Yeah, and the referees, that's Pat Riley over there.
You think he intimidates even refs?
For sure.
But refs get back at him too now.
Steve Jabby.
You remember Steve Jabb?
Yeah, yeah.
We're in Cleveland.
We're on like a four or five game road trip getting our asses handed to us.
It's like the second quarter.
We're down 25 already.
Pat Riley gets a technical.
Two minutes later, he's trying to get another technical.
Steve Javi comes over there and tell me about it and says, hey, Pat, if I got to watch this bullshit tonight, so are you.
You ain't getting kicked out this morning.
That's great.
Wow.
I always say I want to write a book, but if I wrote a book, bro, I'd have to name names and stuff like that.
That would take away my relationships with people and stuff like that because I've got so many stories like I could tell.
You guys would love them, man.
Tell us, man.
Tell us.
I can't put my guys out there.
You can take a name out.
We can bleep names.
We can bleep if it makes you feel uncomfortable.
I just love the information age we're living in.
Because you see, there's so many guys that have played in the league and they have these incredible fucking stories from what goes on.
But I think I'm a little different than most because I'm so infatuated.
Like, like I said earlier, I don't look at myself like I get to sit down beside Gary Payton on a bus.
That's amazing to me.
Like, I get to talk to Alonzo Morning or Shaquille O'Neal or Dwayne Wade or get to try to guard Russell.
Like, that's crazy to me.
Like, I get to do that, bro.
Like, I don't look at myself like I'm looking at them dudes.
Like, those dudes are like heroes to me, bro.
Like, Alan Iverson?
Like, Alan Iverson gave me that, bro?
That's like.
Crazy.
What?
Have you ever had imposter syndrome?
Say again?
Like, did you feel like you had that?
Did you feel that you belonged in the league?
Based on play, yeah.
Yeah, based on play, but like, like what I thought of the NBA and what I've heard of the NBA, like, I don't, I'm not, you know, like going to clubs and things like that.
I'm not against any of that, but that just wasn't my thing.
You know what I mean?
So that part of it, I thought maybe I'd have maybe not fit in and maybe guys look sideways at me.
But like I said earlier, once you get on the floor and you can hoop, bro, nobody cares what but nothing is.
Imposter Syndrome Hits Hard00:04:26
What happened with GP?
Did you guys ever have a combo about it?
No, but I've been around the combo when it was happening.
You know, it was uncomfortable.
The first one, you know.
Can you give us the breakdown?
For sure.
We get to Miami.
You know, I get to trade it to Miami and then they sign him in the offseason too.
And I'm thinking of my.
Well, the play.
Yes.
Okay.
So we're getting there.
You know, I get that.
I'm coming to work out.
He's just getting done with his press conference because he just got, he just got, he signed there as a free agent.
He got on the freshest Air Force Ones too, like, like fresh.
You know, I get, I'm like, oh, man, that's Gary Payton.
Like, like, I'm getting like, whoa.
And I already got that in my pocket.
Like, is he feeling some type of way at me?
Cause I did that.
Because he was talking so much shit to me that game.
Like, like, I was terrified.
Yeah, like, I'm not.
Can you tell them what you did?
Can we tell the fans what you did?
Just a refresher.
The move?
I mean.
I mean.
Well, I think that what doesn't.
Maybe even go one play back.
Yeah, what doesn't set that up is the one play before that I hit one from like Steph Curry Range, you know?
And Gary didn't step out.
No, he didn't step out.
He was just, yeah, he's just trying to keep me out of the paint, which got no chance.
And Gary Payton got the glove.
Like I said, before, this is, I don't even remember what part of the game it was, but up to this point, he's talking mad shit to me.
Like, I'm like, what's he saying?
What's he saying?
Like, like, white boy this.
Oh, no, he ain't dah, dah, dah, dah.
I'm like, oh, like, is he serious?
Like, right?
I've never been in no racial tension at all.
And he's calling me, I'm like, what are you talking about?
Like, at Florida, at Florida, you know, the football boys, Ike Hillier, Fred Taylor, they call me white boy.
I knew what time it was with them because I done blew it down with them.
And we done, you know what I mean?
That was cool.
But this was like, I don't know this guy.
And he's like, is he serious?
Like, does he really hate me because I'm white type shit?
You know what I mean?
Like, I'm just hooping.
I don't want to do nothing.
I don't want to, you know, you're my idol type shit.
Is he bringing up history?
Is he talking about it?
Oh, just talking, just like wishing I would say something.
Really?
And I could, like, every time he says something or they're not like, he's looking at me like, yeah, I wish you would.
That's like all other players played in Boston.
But C. Webb's taking my, he got my back.
He's talking for me, blah, blah, blah.
So C-Webb is talking back, taking for sure.
Like, GP's like, yeah, I wish he would.
And then I'm like, and then I hit that 30-footer.
And then next time come down, he had to step up.
And I didn't really notice that he tried to trip.
I don't even know if he's still, I don't, people say he tried to trip.
So you fake, you fake like you're going to pull up.
Fake like a little hezzy.
And then this, it really wasn't really like a big crossover like Alan Iverson or anything like I would want to do.
Yeah.
It was just like a he and if I bit on it hard.
If you just like lean in from that corner a little bit, if you just look your eyes, you're beat.
If I'm full speed, you're beat.
Yeah.
And he just kind of leaned that way and off I went that way.
And he stuck his leg out.
He tried to trip you.
For sure.
He tried to trip me.
But GP, that's my guy.
Yeah.
It wasn't nothing intentional.
Yeah.
I mean, it was.
You intentionally crossed his shot.
He was talking harsh to me.
So then you see him.
So we see him down there.
We see him in the white.
I see him come out of his press conference.
I go and I'm like, I don't know how this is going to go, but I'm going to go show my love for sure.
That's respect, whatever.
And I go over and I step on his Air Force woman.
No, Jason.
Yeah.
Come on, bro.
Yeah.
That wasn't an accident.
I'm thinking for sure, if he don't swing on me, his homie's swinging.
So you kind of just played it off, blah, blah, blah.
Then everything was cool there.
And we get on the first road trip.
Something brought up on the bus about who brings it up.
You know, it was Shaq.
I already know it was Shaq.
Okay, so GP took it like a man.
Oh, he's like, yeah, you know, everybody's going to get got, right?
You know, especially like, it's like shot blockers.
Lonzo Morning's going to is going to try to block every shot.
But he's going to get yammed on.
He's going to get yammed on every now, but he's going to block a lot of them.
Yeah.
You know, just ask Vince Carter.
So, but GP took it like a man.
Like, yeah, everybody gets got it.
I'm sure there's other plays that GP got crossed up or beat on.
You know what I mean?
So just.
I think it was GP's face afterwards also.
Yeah.
Because it wasn't angry.
I'm going to go knock this kid out or something like that.
It was, all right.
I think that as like a fan watching, it's nice when there's like mutual respect against competitors.
Money Conscious Decisions00:03:46
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Since that movie, not one word has been said to me.
Really?
That's my guy, though, to the end, bro.
Like, he's the one of the, I was fortunate enough to have great teammates, but he ranks right up there, bro.
Like, really?
Fabulous dude, bro.
I mean, fabulous.
I wish he was here right now, bro.
Harsh competitor?
Harsh.
Yeah.
At everything.
Wait, like what else?
Cool, bro.
Pool.
Anything you're doing, flipping pennies, cards.
And he does everything left-handed.
The only thing he does right-handed is hoop.
Everything left-handed.
Wow.
Yeah, man.
That's interesting.
Gary Payton, man, one of the baddest dudes ever lays him up.
What about the games that you guys are playing outside of basketball?
So like, you know, you're on the bus, you're on the plane or whatever like that.
Is it cards?
Like, what is everybody getting competitive about?
It just depends.
You know, definitely a card game going on.
And what's the game?
You know, it could be Bo-Ray here.
It could be, well, we called it in between, like AC Deucey, where you flip up a card here and then flip up another card and then you bet how much money of the pot with the next one will be in between those.
Hence, in between.
Yeah.
But they would put like six decks in there.
You know what I mean?
And when we got on the plane, we would get an envelope full of per diem.
If we went on an eight-day trip, it'd be a lot of money, right?
Everybody just gambles the per diem.
Well, yeah, but the rookies, they throw that shit in there and then rookies lose that per diem.
They want to jump out of the plane right away.
I never played in those games.
I would be the dealer.
Oh, you didn't gamble?
I didn't gamble because you're going to lose.
You don't really have any vices.
Is that why it was frustrating when they were trying to put the weed thing on you?
Because it's like, yo, I'm not partying.
I'm not chasing bitches.
Like, I'm not doing any of this stuff.
Right.
And I'm smoking a little weed.
Yeah.
And now I'm the drug.
And now I'm the bad guy who doesn't care about the rules.
And it's not like it was performance enhancing.
If anything, weed is the opposite, I'm thinking, right?
With hoops.
Yeah.
I'm thinking, like, what's worse than me smoking a blunt or Vladi smoking a motherfucking cigarette.
Cigarette.
I mean, he was smoking what?
I'll be in his room.
Yeah.
Because he's smoking cigarettes.
That's going to, that's going to mask the weed smell.
All day.
All day.
Come on down.
So you were helping him.
Yeah.
Like, Vladi's in the fourth quarter.
He's fucking throwing up kids.
And Platty, I'm in there.
I mean, he ordered a room service too because he got more bread than me.
So we'll put that on his room.
Dude, is that a thought?
Like, even though you're in the NBA, you're still like money conscious a little bit.
I mean, I think so.
I mean, if you're the rookie contract, what's the rookie contract?
I think now, like a vet, like a lot of people.
Yeah, you were.
I don't know.
Probably, let's see, five years at probably two, three, four, five, six.
And it was five years they would lock the rookies in?
Yeah.
And now it's what, three with an option, right?
Right.
Go, go.
Oh, my God.
So they lock you in for five years.
Oh, so, I mean, getting that first, getting a pick.
Oh, man.
And he was the seventh pick, too.
So he had a pretty good contract, really.
Yeah.
Second round pick.
But I mean, you're completely changing a franchise in two ways.
You can add vets and spend on vets.
Yeah.
Right.
Kind of like a quarterback.
You get a rookie quarterback.
You ain't got a bunch of people.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Oh, shit.
Okay.
So, so you're thinking going into it because your agent's getting some, your manager's getting some, obviously, you know, taxes.
You're sending some money back home.
Just an agent, no manager.
No, you didn't have that money.
Really?
Yeah.
And what does an agent take in?
Most thinking takes 4%, but he's going to take up to what I tell him.
But I gave him 4%.
I mean, fuck.
You give me this.
I could get a 4%.
Yeah.
So you said that.
But then like endorsement deals he could take maybe that's different, whatever y'all work out.
Right, right.
Because I heard endorsements, sometimes it could be up to like 20% or something crazy.
Endorsement Deal Rumors00:16:09
Yeah.
Yo, did you get a Nike shoe?
Was there a shoe coming up?
That was another rumor.
You had a shoe?
I don't know if it was, it wasn't actually my shoe.
I don't say this, so to speak, but they put me in it.
It's a hyper flight.
Yeah.
It wasn't for my foot, horrible.
Bro, for mine, too.
Yeah, no support.
Yeah.
It felt like you were just in like an old pair of wrestling shit.
Yeah, it was.
Right, yeah.
But they made you wear them.
You had the purple ones, remember?
Yeah.
And then back then, when I played, your team had to wear all black or all white.
It had to be $49.51.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or you got fined.
And I'm like, well, what are we going to do here?
These are all purple.
The whole thing.
We'll pay the purple.
We'll pay the motherfucking fine.
They did the Jordan shit.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, so there was never supposed to be a shoe that was yours.
That was the rumor.
You were getting a shoe.
No, I don't think so.
I never heard it.
I mean, Nike had you front and center on some of those commercials.
There's that shot of you running back down court, wooing.
It's just also that one with the dribbling where they had squeaking the sneaker.
That guy really sat there and squeaks his sneakers on the floor to make it.
Yeah, bro.
It was crazy shit ever.
Wow.
What is the best sneaker?
Today?
Yeah, for you and your team.
Oh, man.
Them Kyrie's, bro.
You like the Kyrie's?
You don't like the Kyrie's?
Later on in my career, the LeBron, it was a favorite for me because right out of the box, it felt like I'd been wearing it for three weeks.
It's so big.
It's such a, I figured you would want like a small, slim shoe.
You know, I had to put my orthotic in the shoe.
My orthotic was big and sturdy and hard.
You know what I mean?
So it didn't matter.
I was quick as a hiccup, bro.
I was getting where I needed to go.
Yeah.
What are your thoughts on Kyrie's game?
The best offensive package ever.
You think he's up there?
For sure, he's up there.
It'd be hard to put him at the best just because of his jump shots not like.
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
But ball handling, he's the top as it gets for me.
Yeah.
He's the best ball handler ever.
And why?
Just because I think not only that he can handle the thing, but he can get through cracks and crevices with no other like and then spin and then puts him above everybody's ball.
He can finish at the rim with either the finishing ability is insane.
Yeah, that's just like, I don't think we'll ever see that again.
Not in our lifetime.
Yeah, it's yeah, it's hard to even compare him to somebody from a past generation.
I'm trying to think of like what that it's not AI because AI was blowing by you.
Right.
He was just crossover and gone.
And Kyrie can have you on his own.
Kyrie can have you spin it in circles and still stand right here and then go by you when you turn back around.
Yeah.
And finish.
So why do you think that why do you think that he struggles?
He struggled so much later in his career to win.
I think mentally maybe.
I think it's just my opinion.
You know, I think he's just trying to think of, got too much shit going on in his mind.
Like back when he was 16, 17.
It was one thing basketball.
Killer.
Yeah.
Right?
It's basketball.
And now I think, well, I mean, it's part of the job, though.
I think he feels maybe some pressure that he's got to take the Indian people or tribes or whatever he's dealing with, whatever.
He's got to put them on a map type shit.
Maybe he feels that.
He feels a social responsibility.
He's got your championship, so that's on the staff.
That's interesting.
Have you seen that with guys?
You don't have to say names, but guys that were just so incredibly gifted, but mentally you just saw him break down.
For sure, there's been so many, like, just right here in New York City, how many guys, like, we were talking about Rucker Park earlier, how many guys come through Rucker Park that are way more talented than guys in the NBA that just can't do it, bro, mentally.
You know what I mean?
Not even talking about the drugs or any of that.
Just like you put a referee out there that's going to call defensive three seconds or offensive three seconds now.
This dude can't even play now.
Who is the most mentally impressive player you went?
You played with and against?
Oh, for sure.
It's Kobe against.
Way away from that.
Why?
Why?
Just because he's just so cerebral.
Like all these game plans for star, like game plans are made for guys like that.
We're going to try to not stop this guy, just limit.
You know what I mean?
Like when we played the Spurs, you can't let Duncan get 30 and Parker get 25 and Genobly get 25.
Just go ahead and let Duncan get 50 and try to keep Parker and Genovili under 10.
Got a better chance of winning that way because of all three of them getting 20 and 30, you're getting your head drugged.
You know what I mean?
You're going to clog that.
So it's like Kobe was like, so we put these game plans for guys like that.
And Kobe, specifically, like the fourth or fifth possession, the game plan's out the window.
He's done figured a bitch out.
Wow.
He done figured it out, man.
Like, these guys are too good.
Don't watch too much film.
Kobe's done seen every defensive scheme we're going to throw at him.
Yeah.
More than we've worked on it because he's watched more film than we've worked on.
And everybody's trying to throw it at him.
Everybody.
He's done seen every type of defense, every type of pick and roll coverage.
He's done figured out the best way.
And I think guys like that just learned to be patient in the first quarter.
Yeah, we're going to come off this pick and roll.
We're going to pick you apart with Shaq.
Shaq's got 30 in the first half.
Who'll get all the points in the second half?
Shaq going to be double team.
Now Kobe's getting all the looks.
Wow.
So guys like that are just on, there's levels to everything, bro.
In the NBA, you got a level here, and then you got guys like Kobe and guys like that are just.
Best you've ever played against?
The best player I've ever played against is LeBron James.
Yeah, I was wondering.
I played against Jordan back when he played for the Wizards, you know.
Yeah, what was that like?
It was great.
I mean, everybody says it was in the old days or at the end of his career where the bitch had 31 at halftime.
On my ass.
I'm glad I didn't get none of them Bulls days, bro.
Yeah, dude.
But just beat on the court with him.
Oh, it's unbelievable.
I get to play.
He has a golf course down in Hopestown, Florida.
I'm fortunate to get to play there a lot.
Oh, really?
Have you played with Mike?
Never played with him, but every time I go there, that's the only thing I want to do is see Mike.
And like, I could be on the first green, and I'm like, where's Mike?
And Mike is, Mike is so different looking.
Like, I can see Mike from way, way over there.
Like, oh, yeah, there's Mike Will.
I catch myself like gazing.
Like, the first time I shook his hand the first time at the golf course, was like, he was like, Jay, Will, what's up?
Shake my hand.
And I was like, he was like, yeah, I don't want to let go.
I'm looking dead in his eyes.
I could just feel him like, bro, let go of my hand.
I didn't want to let go.
He just has that effect on me.
Like, it's just like, that's Michael Jordan.
You know what I mean?
Wow.
What do you think Mike's competitive edge was?
You know, people talk a lot about, you know, skill.
They talk a lot about, you know, shooting ability, IQ.
But is there a thing specifically that you thought set him aside?
Just wanted to win, man.
Yes.
He didn't care.
And that's easy for me to say that he didn't care, but at the end of the day, he's going to have a huge say in that win.
You know what I mean?
It's like, it's kind of arguing like when you argue the LeBron and Jordan thing.
You say LeBron's a better basketball player or, you know, well, MJ wasn't a good teammate.
He didn't make the extra pass, but he won the goddamn game.
So how can you argue that?
Yeah.
There's, yeah, yeah, I heard it was like, heard someone say this, that he can lock in 100% for any game.
It doesn't matter what it is.
It's like it could be game 43 of the season.
Yeah.
But, and I imagine game 43, sometimes it's hard to lock in 100%.
For sure.
You're beat up.
Your knees are sore.
All these things.
It's easy to take a little bit off.
But MJ could lock in.
That's why he's one of the greatest, if not the greatest.
Yeah, who's your like, yeah, LeBron, I want to hear about LeBron.
Yeah, a quick story about Bob Knight.
I just heard this yesterday.
Rest his soul, rest his soul.
He told me a story about Jordan, or I saw the story about Jordan.
He said they were playing in the Olympic.
He was the last guy to coach of a basketball team from America to win a gold medal that didn't have professional.
So they're halftime and they're playing.
I forget who they're playing.
They're saying they're up 29 points, USA.
And Bob Knight's walking across the court to go in the locker room at halftime.
He's like, what am I going to say to these guys to get them going?
They did everything right.
What I'm going to say.
And he grabbed his stat sheet as he walked across.
He said, Jordan.
You saw Jordan's name.
Jordan played 12 minutes in the first half.
He had 19 points.
He had 11 rebounds and nine assists in 12 minutes in the first half.
Wow.
And he's thinking, what am I going to say?
I got it.
As soon as I open the door, I see Michael Jordan's the first one.
So what do I do?
I said, God damn it, MJ, what are you doing?
Are you going to set any screens tonight?
I haven't seen you set one damn screen tonight.
And he said, he said, MJ looked up with a little grin, not a big one.
He said, Coach, you remember last week when you told the whole world that I was the quickest person you ever seen on the basketball floor?
He said, I'm setting them so quick, you don't even see.
I thought that was a good story.
Fucking legend.
Yeah, man.
Bob Knight was a legend.
Yeah, Knight was.
I heard there was the Phil Jackson story.
I think it was Mike.
He said, Mike, you know, there's no I and team.
And Jordan goes, there's one and win.
That's right.
Yeah, that's right.
Michael Jordan was just different.
Ever an arena or a venue that you played at that was really special?
Like the first time you ever played at like the Staple Center or the garden or something like that?
Well, Arco Arena, for sure, man.
They had the best fans ever.
Yeah.
I'm not just unbiased.
Yeah, the Cowbells and all that stuff.
It was loud.
And we were the only thing going there.
Could lose 12 in a row and they're selling out the next game, you know.
But the special gems to me were like Old Seattle Arena, Phoenix's Arena.
I just always shot good there, so that's why I'm choosing these.
And did it make a difference, like that physical space that you were in?
Like the actual arena makes a difference in the game for sure.
Like the backdrop and things like that.
Early on in my career, once like I think after my first year, you get used to the background, but there's nothing like playing at Madison Square Garden.
I didn't know nothing about the circus animals that they kept in there.
I didn't know that there were, I didn't even know there were different players.
We don't call them that JP.
I'm sorry.
I'm doing some filthy things.
But Madison Square Garden is like, you know, it's dark.
You can't even see like the third row up.
You know what I mean?
So I think that's cool with all the lights on the floor.
You hear that bitch.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it's a good spot.
Yeah.
Did you ever get nervous before games?
I think, I think, yeah, I got nervous before every game, I think, but I think it's in a good way.
Like, as soon as the jump, whoever controls the tip, the nerves are gone.
Right?
I mean, it's just hooping.
Yeah, right.
But there was never a game that you're sitting in the locker room just like, fuck.
Oh, yeah.
Every night I had to guard these motherfuckers.
Really?
I'm not like nervous.
It's like, man, this is about to suck.
Yeah, but it's fitting to suck for them too.
Yeah.
What about finals?
Anything?
Was GP really supportive of you during that final?
For sure.
Well, like I said earlier, man.
Because he's competitive too.
You know, he wants it.
He hit a big shot in that finals, too.
I think it was game three.
That's the one I remember.
Yeah, that's the one that I told him.
I said, look, GP, look, D. Wade ain't going to be open.
This is for D-Wade.
And you know, Shaq's not going to be.
I'm not fitting to throw the shape anyway because it might have been late in the game.
Yeah, he might have two free throws.
So you told him he's getting like rock?
Yeah, because the way it was spread up, GP's man was over there by D-Wade's, and they're shading to D-Wade.
I say, look, if I throw you, and I was always the kind of guy, if I throw you a chest, a crisp pass in the air, you're open to shoot it.
Just, you know that.
But if I throw you like a bounce pass, kind of maybe a slower one or maybe kind of behind you, then you got to realize that the defense is, you got to have to do something once you get it.
It ain't like a catch and shoot type thing.
But if you get a crisp one for me, you got plenty of time.
Hoist it.
Right.
And I was always the kind of guy too, like shoot, like J.J. Reddick, for instance.
He wanted to, he definitely shot the ball better when he caught the ball seams as opposed to catching it.
He has to flip the seams before he shoots.
Would you find out?
I'm catching that ball as I'm catching it from you.
I'm turning the seams here to set up.
So are you finding out how each guy likes to shoot the ball and then delivering it that way?
Well, I'm finding out, but not the way I want to find out.
You know what I mean?
But I'm a guy.
I'm trying to get assists.
I'm thinking more assists.
I'm getting more money I'm going to make.
Wow.
So you're changing the seams on the bottom.
I got to.
For some guys.
What you mean in the way you found out?
How would you do it?
They're yelling at him.
Let him know.
I'm two for seven.
What you mean?
He said, well, the third and fourth pass, the seams came sideways.
How do you remember that?
I think I saw something of you saying that you're trying to deliver it for certain guys.
You're trying to deliver it on the side they're going to shoot so there's less movement.
Like Steph Curry, I think what sets him apart other than making the bitch, he's doing all this shit with the ball and he's got the ball here.
He can get it from here to here and off so fast.
Yeah, where certain guys they need it.
Like JJ, he is knocked down, but he needs it right here.
And JJ's, what, 6'4?
He usually got a 6'7, 6'8 guy.
If he's got to flick the not open no more, he might have to put it on the floor.
Yeah, the margins are so slim.
Yeah, Matt Bonner.
Remember Matt Bonner, the redhead?
Matt Bonner.
Oh, I thought he said Matt Barnes.
No, Matt Bonner.
The Red Mamba.
Yeah, he would, he is catching shoot percentage when he played for the Spurs.
One year was like 60%.
If you made him put it on the floor one time, shit went down to like 17%.
So just get that fucking rock on the floor.
Yes.
Make him dribble.
Back then, now it's probably analytics guys getting you this.
Oh, back then, they're just yelling at you, and that's how you're learning.
But guys like Shane Badier, Bruce Bowen, Del Christie.
These guys are looking at all this stuff.
You ever ask Shane Battier why his scalp looks like that?
No, this, nah.
Shane Badier is a great dude, bro.
He's an amazing dude, but he has little vaginas.
You know, like band-aids type shit.
He'd be a good guy for your show, bro.
I would love to have him on.
Yeah, he'd be a good guy.
But I used to sit beside him when I played with him in Memphis, and he would play Jeopardy on the computer, right?
And I'm trying to play against him.
Bit hey, I'd have the bitch read the answer.
He'd answered it before I didn't have read the question.
So I'm like, nah, this ain't gonna work.
Tom, that's so funny.
Everybody else is playing in between and he's playing Jeopardy.
Yeah, that's right.
Just a different level.
And looking at how many times Kobe goes right.
Like he would look at like...
Oh, he's really trying to break it.
Oh, you don't know how many times if Kobe dribbles twice to the left, he's going to pull up this way.
Or if I force him right, two, three dribbles, he's going to spin.
Every time he takes three dribbles to the right, he spins back.
Wow.
Yeah, he's that deep.
Well, don't they call him the no-points all-star?
Wasn't that his name?
Shane Baddier?
Yeah.
Apparently, that's the New York Times article written about him.
Yeah, apparently when he's on the court, everyone scores more points.
Like the whole team goes up, and when he's off, it's one of those guys that affects the game.
Yeah, but his individual scoring stats weren't amazing.
No.
And he was that dude at Duke.
Yeah, he was the guy.
Charges and all that.
Yeah.
Okay, two things.
Have you found it hard for guys to transition from being the superstar their whole life to role players in the league?
That's a tough question, too.
I mean, I don't, I don't, it's hard because I don't know who was stars.
You know what I mean?
Aren't most guys stars?
Like, isn't everybody in the NBA when they were in high school, they were the Patrick Beverly was dropping 50 a game when he was in high school.
Right.
But when you say star, did you know Patrick Beverly in high school?
Okay, that's fair.
That's fair.
You're a local.
Yeah, maybe, yeah.
I think all of us are probably all local stars.
Yeah.
And I think those guys like myself and Pat Beverly's of the world know who, you know, there's levels to everything.
I just admire those guys who are able, like Pat is a perfect example.
He was able to transition his game to what could create a very long career in the NBA.
And I feel like there's certain guys that maybe they can't do that as effectively.
For sure.
There's guys like that.
But I try to tell kids all the time today, like everybody can't score 25, 30 points a night, right?
Yeah.
So like Steven Adams, prime example.
Yeah.
High School Superstars00:02:54
Can't score for nothing.
But he's going to be in the league as long as he wants to.
And guess what?
He signed a $100 million deal for rebounding and setting screens.
Playing D, bro.
And you probably love playing with a guy like that.
Oh, for sure.
Especially if you're one of like the Kobe or LeBron kind of guys.
You want them kind of guys all day.
Russell West Brother.
Like you asked Steph Curry and Clay Thompson if they want to play without Draymond Green.
They're going to say, hell no.
Hell no.
As soon as one of them leaves, that's just done.
Really?
I think.
If Draymond Green left there, they're not winning no more.
Interesting.
If Steph Curry left, they're not winning no more.
And the same coach for Clay Thompson.
Right?
So you brought up LeBron.
Why was he the best you've ever played against?
I think LeBron's the best because he just makes everybody around him so much better.
Where it gets back to the point where, well, Jordan won the game, right?
So how you argue that.
But my point, like, Jordan, like LeBron, when he, at the end of the game, he's got the last second shot and he penetrates or whatever, and he's got three guys on him, he passes the ball, right?
That's what you're supposed to do.
And Jordan's just rising up and shooting it and making it, right?
Well, back then, it was like the defense was different.
Like when Jordan caught the ball on the wing, it was just him and the primary defender.
Next thing is the goal, right?
Where now LeBron gets the ball on the wing, got the primary defender.
You got the weak side block, slides over or the ball side block, and you got a guy at the elbow.
So LeBron sees three guys.
Yeah.
So passing makes more sense than it would back in the day.
And I just think, I think LeBron could lead the league in all five major statistical categories, blocks, rebounds, assists, points, all that if he wanted to.
Where I don't know if MJ could have done that.
Because he didn't, not saying he couldn't have, but the mentality that he had, he was just going to get on my back and let's go.
I'm going to get there.
You know, people say I probably put Jordan above LeBron, but when LeBron left all three of his teams, they never made the playoffs.
When Jordan, his first year, when he was playing baseball, the Bulls still made it to the conference semis, I think.
Yeah.
I think they lost him six or seven.
Yeah.
And check it out.
Jordan always played with, I'm not taking nothing from Michael Jordan.
Of course.
Pippen?
Yep.
Horace Grant?
Horace Grant was a good Dennis Robin?
Tony Cooper was nice.
And oh, by the way, Phil Jackson.
Oh, that guy, Phil, yeah.
LeBron, who'd he take to the Cav Booby Gibson?
Andy Barrage.
Yeah.
Good players.
Yeah.
Good players, but they're not Scotty Pippen and Dennis Robin, right?
You know what I'm saying?
Mo Williams.
Great player.
Yeah.
But come on.
I think you could put LeBron on any roster in the NBA right now.
Just put him in there.
They got to the playoffs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Even the ragged ass Magics organization.
We'll take him.
Yeah.
I'll take him too.
And Bronny, too.
Come on.
Yeah.
Come on down, man.
Post-career.
How difficult is it going from every single day of your life is dominated by playing basketball to no longer playing professionally?
Life After Professional Hoops00:06:28
Yes, it's tough.
You know, I'm still going through it a little bit.
Are you?
Yeah, I mean, I'm just so bored with my life.
You know, I can only golf so much.
Yeah.
You know, I guess my kids were younger when I first retired.
I got three kids.
One's 22, one's 19, one's 15.
So back then, it was okay because they always had something to do.
But now it's like, it's just me, my wife, and my youngest daughter.
So I'm always looking for something to do.
I wish I had something like that I felt like the same passion and love.
Yeah, so it's going to have to be basketball, what?
Like a developmental coach or something like that?
Yeah.
Like as a head coach, some people are like, why don't you coach high school basketball, things like that?
I couldn't do that.
The responsibility is too high for me.
I'm not the most responsible guy, but you know, to help to be an assistant, whereas I didn't have to show up every day, things like that, I could dig, but where can you find that at, right?
Yeah.
But I think it's tough.
You know, like you got to find something.
Like, I found golf.
I love golf.
Yeah.
But like I said, I can only golf so much.
I wish I could just be in the ears of some of these young kids and tell them my perspective of that pick and roll coverage that you just messed up.
Where like I think some of these coaches are like always just hounding, hounding, like, what'd you do?
You did this wrong.
You did this wrong.
Well, tell me, I want to know, like, why'd you do that?
Why did you go under the pick and roll that time?
Because I was the same way.
Let me explain to you why I did that because you might find like, oh, that might work, but it might not work for Kobe or might not work for Jason Kidd.
You know what I mean?
Like Pat Riley was cool with that.
Hubie Brown was good about that.
I played with some coaches just like, nah.
This is how it's going.
It's called Red.
We're going Red.
Yeah.
So it's obviously a tough transition.
Yeah, from the outside perspective.
And again, like, I've only seen you on social media and stuff, but it's felt like you really were spending time with family, obviously trying to find other things to distract you, be a golf or whatever.
Sometimes you see people kind of act out or they party or they drink.
They're kind of like holding on to the last semblance of like that fame.
But it seems to me it's not the fame that you miss.
It's just like the being passionate about a thing.
See, I don't miss that fame because I didn't even see the fame.
You feel me?
Like I'm still living my life the same way I did when I was hooping.
I'm just not hooping.
Yeah.
You know, I'm still going home, doing what I do, you know, messing with the kids, whoever's at the house or whatnot.
I'm the type of dude I just want to have a good time and laugh, bro.
Even if it's at my expense, if you're laughing at me, bro, tell me.
I want to laugh with you.
Just be ready.
So, like, when I go golfing and I'm fortunate enough to play a lot of good golf courses where I have caddies and things like that, it's more important for me for that caddy to have just as good, if not a better day on that golf course as me.
Just because if I'm an asshole to you and you're an asshole to me, now we got to spend four hours together, we're not going to have no fun, bro.
You're still giving, yeah, yeah, bro.
I just want to have a good time, man.
But I still want to whoop your ass at golf, you know, and stuff like that.
But laughing is more important to me.
Yeah.
How's the knee, though?
Can you get back on the court?
My knee is okay.
I could probably get back on the court if I did a little working out prior to like give me a month.
But I ain't trying to get sore and shit like that.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Okay.
You ever go back to Bell?
I go back to Bell.
I was just in West Virginia not too long ago doing a little autograph signing for the kids and things there.
I try to get back one weekend out of the summer to do a camp for the kids, man, because West Virginia is tough.
Not much going on there.
And when I was living there, it was probably the same.
But looking back, man, Belle, West Virginia was the greatest thing ever to me when I was living there.
It'd be hard to go back and move there.
But going back and giving back to the kids and things like that is priceless.
Do you think that contributed to your humility?
Like growing up in a place like that, that's like a small town where the people are humble?
You know, I don't know whether to say yes or no.
I just, like, what I want to say is I've been like this my whole life, no matter what.
I mean, you guys put your pants on the same way I do, and so does everybody else.
So just because I hooped and sold a jersey or two or like that, or took a picture with somebody, that'll make me no better than anybody else, man.
So at the end of the day, I just, when I leave out of here, I just hope you guys will be like, yeah, he was a cool dude, or your homies ask you about how was Jay Will.
You know, I heard he was an asshole.
Nah, bro, it was the total opposite of that.
You know, that's the only thing that I worry about in my life from here going forward.
You know what I mean?
Like, just a cool dude, man.
Any interest in doing TV?
No, because I can't be real.
You know what I mean?
It's like, I'm authentic, and I ain't going to say what a producer wants me to say.
Yeah.
Now, I might touch up on that, but I got to say how I feel.
You don't think that they would let you do what you did here?
I don't know.
Yeah, you're not that mean of a guy.
You know, you're like, yeah, you're going to protect the people that you want to protect.
You're going to tell the funny stories that often make people look funny.
But then again, if I feel like I got to say this, it might hurt somebody's feelings.
Like Hubie Brown, best coach I ever played for in my life.
Yeah.
He told me early on, like, he called me the bunny, Energizer Bunny.
But anyway, that's a different story.
But just because I'll be at practice early and I'll be the last one to leave.
I'm always playing two-on-two with somebody I'm playing.
It was just practice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm trying to, you know, me and Bo Outlaw, remember Bo Outlaw?
Yeah.
Bo Outlaw.
We'll beat anybody two on two, I think.
Anybody.
Yeah, bro.
Because he's not going to shoot everyone sit off screens and let me shoot it.
He's going to get the rebound.
We're going to have a good time.
But Hubie Brown told me early on, like, don't ever leave anything inside.
He's like, if you leave something inside, you'll get an ulcer.
You might get an ulcer.
And an ulcer will be way worse condition than as if you said something to hurt someone's feelings.
So ever since he told me that, bro, then I'm just like, I'm just going to leave it out there.
Because I think if I leave it out there, at least it gives the other person a point of view of where I'm coming from.
Whereas if I'm trying to hide it or sugarcoat it, now they're looking at me some type of way.
Yeah, they can't trust you.
Whether I'm right or wrong about that, I'm probably going to be wrong in a lot of people's eyes for saying what I feel.
But that's just what I am, and I'm not going to change.
Shit, I'm almost 50.
My life's on the way down.
Fuck, I'm going to change for now.
Why is it on the way down?
Well, I just, you know, I mean, life expectancy is such only a certain age.
You haven't even got grandkids yet, man.
Well, that's going to be crazy.
That would be crazy.
Yeah, that might fill you with a lot of grandkids.
Might be crazy.
I mean, I feel sorry for their mom and dad.
Grandpa will be all right.
Yeah.
Magic Tricks And Aces00:11:04
Yeah.
You must love New York, though, because you're like, your persona is like a New Yorker.
Like, just say how you feel.
Yeah.
Oh, this is us.
I like New York, but not in the winter.
Oh, yeah.
You know what I mean?
I grew up in the snow and stuff like that.
So, but yeah, I like, I just like going where I'm appreciative.
Yeah.
Appreciate it.
You know what I mean?
Where we can just chop it up like this, bro.
And you got to take a trip to record park, though.
I'm going to.
As soon as we get up out here, we're taking a ride over there.
Whether we see anybody or not, we're going to ride over there just to get a pick for sure.
The last thing I was curious about personally is I've heard that you like magic.
Yeah.
You like card magic.
For sure.
Do you do?
You're good at magic?
What's magic, really?
It's sleight of hand.
So I feel like you might be all right at it.
I love magic.
Rick Barnes, back to Providence days, he was a magician.
He had some tricks like, you know, he disappeared.
Well, he didn't disappear until your scholarship is gone.
Pull a quarter out of my ear.
Pull a quarter out of my ear type shit.
I didn't know how he did that.
I was just, you know, I like shit like the card tricks and things like that.
Yeah, I do.
I'd love to be a magician.
Hold on a second.
No, Hold on.
We got a little.
Oh.
Come on, Jay.
Come on.
You know, the magicians don't do cars with cameras and all this.
Secrets away, bro.
I'm going to get kicked out of the magician.
Yeah.
Let's see a little song.
That's a fresh deck of cards.
Fresh, too.
I know Nick Winkleman from a pop gun.
I'm putting y'all.
Hey, Nick, let's get Nick in here.
Man.
Let me see.
So y'all like magic at all?
I don't love magic.
Who doesn't like magic, right?
I actually bought those videos when I was younger.
They would like give away the secrets.
Did you ever do the trick?
I had a good one, bro.
Really?
I had a good one.
I'm not going to give it away, but I had one where I could make the ash go from, I could like put cigarette ash.
Do you know this trick?
The cigarette ashes on the top of your hand.
Yeah.
And then you open up your hand and then there's ash on the bottom.
Is it you keep a rubber thumb on there?
Boom.
No, no, no.
I almost want to do it.
Mark used to do that one in college.
That one will blow people's minds.
Nick.
Talking to the mic.
What's up, baby?
Come on, guys.
All right.
Nick is in the building.
Nick's been giving us the inside information.
Nick from a popka.
Respect.
Yo.
Okay, so is he a legit magician or what?
Yeah, he got some stuff.
He got some stuff.
The one he got to show you is y'all pick the car.
You pick the same car.
You got to see that one.
All right.
All right, man.
Let's see.
Who wants to do it?
I'll do it.
I'll do it.
Let's go.
Pick a card.
See, I'm in a bad spot here.
You know what I mean?
Nah, we're not going to figure it out.
All right.
No, no, no.
Don't leave.
Yeah, you look at it.
Don't let me see it, though.
You can show the camera all that.
Okay, hold on.
I got it.
Okay.
All right.
Okay.
All right.
Cam, see you.
That's going to put it right there on top.
There we go.
You got it?
Yep.
All right.
That was a good card.
That was a good card.
That's a good card.
Yeah.
I think it's really hard to figure out cards.
Well, I hope.
All right, here we go.
Yep.
Was that it?
No.
You sure?
No.
That wasn't it.
I'll be honest, I might have forgot.
I feel like you at the line.
No, no, I forgot.
I got it.
I'm going to put that one right there, and I'm going to put the next one on top.
Okay.
When Alex runs away, that's when he got it.
Okay.
What's that one in?
No.
You sure?
I'm positive.
But you didn't know about that one.
Yeah, well, I did know it wasn't that one.
It's not that one.
I'll put that one right there.
I'll put the next one on top.
Okay.
Okay.
Is that it?
No.
You sure?
No.
Yeah.
I'm sure it's not that one.
Yeah.
It's not going good right now.
Is that it?
Are we going to do this 52 tucks?
You said he's a magician, bro.
I'm saying.
So none of them is yours.
Tap two of them.
Uh-oh.
All right.
Tap one of them.
All right.
What was your card?
Four clubs.
Oh shit.
Oh shit.
Come on, bro.
Come on.
Fire.
Fire, baby.
Come on there, baby.
Tap the other two.
That's what I'm saying.
That's a good trick.
All right, yeah.
What would you have?
He hates it so much.
Getting guy.
I do not like that one.
He hates getting guy.
I tricked me, I feel like.
That's how I felt on a past break.
Fuck.
Yo.
How many of these do you have?
Man.
I wish we had another deck.
That's my favorite one.
Well, you have two decks.
You can do it on two decks.
Yeah.
Do we have another deck?
I don't think so.
That's all we got.
There's no way.
Come on, Mark.
Come on, Mark.
Wait, give me, give me, there's got to be one more.
Get, let's do one more.
Let's do one more.
I bet Vernon got a deck on him right now.
Ask, ask.
Let me see.
We play a lot of spades, so he stays with a deck.
Oh, this guy's black.
Come on, dog.
See?
Okay.
All right, here we go.
You've probably seen this one before.
No.
You'll probably figure it out, though.
It's easy.
One, two, three, and four.
You pick a card just telling what row it's in.
Four.
It's in this row.
What row?
Two.
The same card?
You sure?
Yep.
Tap two groups.
No, don't do this to me again.
These two.
All right.
So you already know what the card is.
No, you tell me what to do, bro.
Group one, group two.
Group one or group two?
Uh, two.
Okay.
One or two.
One.
Sure.
Tell him your card.
Ace of Hearts.
God shit.
Come on.
Come on, man.
Come on.
Let's go.
You picked that one.
Chelsea, how'd you do that?
Come on.
Yo, you did it.
You picked it up.
How did you do that?
Andrew, tell us how you did it, bro.
How did you do it?
Tell us how you did it.
I was in on it.
Was there like a shit?
I said that shit up earlier.
Was there a math?
I'm trying to understand.
Like, what's you must have known immediately what the card was.
Maybe you're just easy to read, bro.
Is that it?
Yeah, maybe you're fucking easy to read.
You picked it.
I just flipped it.
Your grandkids are going to love you.
Can't wait.
Can't wait.
Wow, bro.
Yeah.
Come on, Charles.
Tell us how you did it.
Come on, it was easy.
Nah, they told me.
Yeah, this is the new Chris Weber right here, bro.
Just throw him past it.
He really does.
All right, go.
Yeah, I don't get that one.
Didn't he tell you he likes to be the dealer?
You got to watch his ass.
Yeah, it's true.
Oh, did anybody ever try to get you to cheat?
No, I would never do that.
But did they try?
Mom.
I wouldn't.
No, no, no.
If I'm playing my kids like Uno or whatever, I might draw deal one from the bottom.
But if we're, yeah, but if we're playing for like a dollar, I ain't cheating.
I ain't cheating.
You can't let him win, Uno.
That's right.
How are they going to respect you?
That's what I do.
That's right.
I cheat on them all the time.
All right, that was an easy one.
You probably get this one too.
Oh.
Now he's really rubbing it in your face.
You see, I said it was an easy one.
Don't let him come in between us.
All right, every fourth card is going to be an ace.
You got it?
One, two, three, ace.
Got it?
Yep.
Ace.
Yep.
Bomb.
Yep.
Hey, you heard him make making fun of the way I said tiger.
Yeah.
Dag.
I didn't like it.
All right.
One, two, three.
Every fourth card is what?
Ace.
Go ahead, flip it up.
You know what that row is going to be, okay?
Yep.
Knowing these are aces, pick one of these rows.
Okay.
Pick one of those rows.
Okay.
And now I want you to switch that ace with that ace, switch places, and then tap these three aces.
And they all moved over there with that one.
Okay.
Damn.
I really thought it was going to be like a couple little tricks.
I didn't realize he was good.
I got confused by that one because I didn't believe him when he said the aces were what they were.
So I'm a little confused by this one.
But then they were there.
What the fuck?
Come on, bro.
Off the elbow.
Good.
Off the elbow.
That's one row different in the whole game.
Burn and bring it right now.
All right, here we go.
This is a good one.
This is good.
Come here.
No, that'll be next.
All right, throw it.
All right.
Let's have it.
You have a seat right there if you want.
I'm going to make four stacks.
Okay.
There's got to be at least, let's say, eight cards per stack.
Okay.
You tell me when to stop.
I got to make four.
Yes.
Yep.
Stop.
Stop.
One, two, or three.
What does that mean?
Where you want me to put this card?
That one's fine.
Two?
Yep.
One or three?
Three.
Last one got to go to one, okay?
Right?
One, two, three.
One or two.
Two.
Two.
Last one got to go to one.
Yeah.
One, two, or three.
Three.
One or two.
Two.
Last one got to go to one.
Yeah.
You got him shook.
I've never seen one, two, or three.
Three.
One or two.
One.
Last one got to go to three.
Yeah.
MGM.
Y'all looking for a dealer?
What's the chance of all them cards being top on the same?
I mean, the same on top.
Matter of fact, might be all aces.
There's no way that one's an ace.
No way.
There's no way.
Ain't no way, isn't it?
God damn.
Fuck.
Come on.
If this one's not an ace, this is crazy.
How much are you going to give it?
40 mil?
I ain't got it.
Damn.
God damn.
So fired.
I don't even understand it.
Like, I want to figure it out.
It's like, it's magic.
Phantom Cards In Flight00:12:15
All right.
What is this?
What are we doing here?
What do we have here?
So, like, can you even go to Vegas and play?
Because isn't it like cheating if you know all this type of shit?
Well, I'm thinking, like, they don't let him touch the cards.
You're not supposed to touch the card.
I think a lot of people fucking just see where every single card is, apparently.
I had to get my hands on it first.
Ah, okay, okay.
Hold on.
Are you going to do the two down?
Not like no.
Yeah, you want to do it.
Wait, I have to pee, but I want to be here for a while.
Okay, good.
Yeah.
All right.
But don't do some shit for them.
Do you know how to count cards?
No, sir.
I can't even remember to play out of the huddle, bro.
I'm going to count cards.
I don't even know if he knows or he remembers.
I got a memory like a fucking elephant.
Jacob Jay bought a Phantom.
I don't know.
Two of you, though.
Blue 42.
33.
That's what I want to remember.
He bought a Phantom.
He only had a car for a little while.
Wait, who?
You were a phantom?
Where?
Memphis, right?
I had a lot of in Orlando.
Well, I was in Memphis when I was playing, but I always had a house in Orlando.
Yeah.
I bought a house in Orlando since 02.
So I always brought my wife and kids and dogs, whatever city I was in.
Yeah.
But we always go back to Orlando in the summer.
Okay.
All right, so I'm borrowing my mom's car one time.
I'm trying to get up to the gym.
I never seen a Rolls-Royce in person.
I was blown away.
I got my little flip phone out and I'm like at the light.
Like, oh, shit, it's a Rolls-Royce.
I didn't know he had just got a Rolls-Royce.
We get to the gym and about to start playing.
He's like, were you taking a picture, man?
The light?
You're a Phantom.
I'm like, imagine your homeboy taking a picture.
It just seemed weird.
I'm like... Him sneaking it too.
Was that me?
Shit was hard.
I was just telling him that, like, yeah, I look like a real asshole.
I never see that car.
Shit.
I was telling him, too, he had, I don't know if you remember, but he's on your seven series at the Dub Bellagios.
I'm talking to the outside, like, what's good, bro?
He went to the gym.
I just waited just so I could go out and spin them bitches.
I was like, fuck.
Like, the prices are.
Let me tell you.
You know, the prices, right, bro?
I smell these bitches like 30 times.
And it was been for like 20 minutes.
I was like, they're just like, yeah.
It's going different ways.
I'd like to see the video footage of that.
Surveillance camera.
Running around the car, skiing, skiing.
We never seen no shit like that.
It's like one of us.
So I thought it was the craziest shit ever.
Wait, so when do y'all meet?
Y'all meet before you're even at SAC?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
But you were a kid.
Yeah, I was 16, something like that.
Oh, wow.
And you were hooping a little bit?
No, no, not even.
I was like 13.
Yeah.
I was sneaking into the gym just trying to get on with the guys.
That's when we were playing pickup at the lockout season with all the magic guys.
And these little jits was sneaking in the gym like on the back door.
And we throwing it between people's legs and shit.
But could you play back?
Yeah, it was hard.
Yeah, like in between games here, they're trying to play us one-on-one type shit.
You know what I mean?
Just like I used to do, right?
Did you ever cross him up?
Of course we tried.
Did he ever get you?
I'm sure.
Everybody's got God, right?
No, I had a couple buddies.
A couple of us could play.
We was doing all that shit.
We was doing everything we could just to at least be with the guys.
And then for us, I've never seen no shit like that.
Just running into all these guys was like, nah, shocking.
So, Penny, not these guys.
Yeah, no, no.
For us, it was.
Bro, Penny's so slept on.
Yeah.
Unbelievable.
I mean, were you, were you?
Actually, he played in Miami with me for a year.
This is LA.
Yeah, this is bullshit.
Yeah.
For sure, he was great.
But early Penny, wait, were you playing against Penny when you were at Orlando?
Oh, Orlando, Mel?
Yeah, yeah.
What was that like?
Because that's early Penny.
That's funny you ask.
We're playing, and he knows what time it is.
Penny does.
I got next.
They won.
He's like, hey, I ain't real loose yet.
So take it easy.
No.
Shit.
I done put in seventh gear.
Yeah, so I kind of lost a little bit of respect for him when he said he said that.
Yeah.
But he could play.
But he was too slow for this.
Wait, really?
Yeah.
That's probably the injury started to.
I think this is even before the injury.
It didn't matter what it was.
Too slow.
Really?
Yeah.
So only Speedy Claxon.
Oh, he didn't have a chance either defensively.
Really?
But I didn't have a chance on him defensively either.
Fair.
Yeah.
Fair.
Speedy Claxon was fast as hell.
Yeah.
Like, come on a gold tooth, bro.
Like, wait.
Yeah.
You know how fast that shit will slide down that gold teeth?
Ski.
That's disgusting.
That shit is disgusting.
Because it takes a little bit with enamel.
Yeah, I'm going to go.
But I can have gold.
There you go.
It's so fast.
Yeah, yeah.
It's a friction of the surface.
I didn't even know how you found that out.
Come on.
I'm from Bell.
Oh, man.
Like, come on a gold team.
Oh, God, dude.
Bro.
Oh, that's funny.
There's nothing faster.
No.
Oh, that's funny.
There's nothing faster.
Speedy mate.
Yeah.
Speedy.
Wait, he was telling us about the technical in China.
Technical in China.
Oh, yeah.
So we're over there.
We're playing like against like a, I don't want to say the national team, but it's something like that.
Like the dude that's their coach is like the national team coach, or he might be the leader of their army or some shit.
I don't know.
I don't even know, but he's somebody.
He was somebody.
He's somebody.
Anybody in the gym?
You can't tell him.
So it's early in the game.
It's early in the game.
There's a lot of people there.
Play a lot of money.
You know, they pay me some money to come over there and play or whatnot.
Fans pay their money to play, watch me play.
Refs is cheating.
Imagine that.
Imagine that.
Imagine.
So, I mean, and they're Chinese refs.
They can't speak English.
So I'm yelling at them, trying to curse them.
They don't understand me.
They're just.
And that's making me even more mad because I'm like, I'd rather them curse me back.
Like, you know what I mean?
They're just smiling.
Yeah, I'm just steady, man.
Cool.
So I'm like, we call it timeout or what I told.
I said, look, you just go down there.
I told my team, you just stand there and set this, stand right there, set this screen.
And I'm going to run as fast as I can and run my defender right off your screen, right?
I said, they're probably going to call offense a foul.
Don't even worry about it because you know what time it is.
They're cheating, right?
Yeah.
Boom, we did it.
Sure enough, offensive foul.
And I told him, I said, listen, don't do anything crazy after he calls the offense a foul, right?
And sure enough, he said, okay, no problem.
So as soon as they call offensive foul, my dumbass boots this ball.
I mean, I kick the ball.
I try to kick it up as far as I can to the 15th level, right?
Something happens.
It didn't kick it very good, but I got a good kick into it.
Something happens.
It's all kinds of commotion.
They call it technical.
Boom, done.
Commotion ball.
Next thing you know, boom, the ball's right back in my hand.
What do I do?
Kick it again.
I kind of kicked the bitch further than so.
Next thing you know, now I'm kicked out of the game in the first quarter.
This is a charity game or yeah over in China.
Everyone came to see him play.
Yeah.
Now I'm sitting on the- It was like some, well, some other celebrities and some like G-League guys.
Some other generals.
I think Vince Carter was our coach.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's out there hanging on the rim during the game.
Didn't get no technical calls on him.
Unbelievable.
Yes, that makes me more mad at the ref.
Yeah.
Because they're sucking his dick.
You know what I mean?
But anyway, now I'm sitting over there.
It's like, it's got to be, I don't know if we play two quarters or I mean four quarters or two halves, but it's a lot of time left.
And I'm sitting over there and I see somebody in a crowd with a Marshall shirt on.
Oh, that's old school.
Yeah.
So I'm like, I'm like, well.
And he's got two or three kids.
And I got to sit here the rest of the time.
And I'm like, well, fuck.
Y'all come on over here from West Virginia.
China has the choices.
I mean, chances.
Sit down on the bench with me.
So I'm like, hey, I just started suiting the shit with him.
Next thing you know, the boss of China, whoever that is.
Boss of China.
Whoever that is.
Yes, bro.
That dude, whoever he was.
Everyone.
Go down there.
Go down there.
Talking to the rest.
Talk to the rest.
We want Jason back in.
Blah, blah.
Well, the rest go talk to the coach.
He's the boss down there, remember?
Yeah.
Like, no, he can't play.
They're trying to win.
They're trying to beat us, right?
They can't play, but I think they end up letting me play, come back in the second half.
But yeah, I was fearful whether they were going to take my passport that trip.
Yeah, you could get locked up.
Yeah, bro.
Last place you want to be locked up in China, I think.
A six-foot white boy in China prison probably wouldn't go too well.
What do you think would happen?
I'm not so sure, man, but I'm not, I'm not, I'm not.
Fill you up with duck sauce.
Well, I'm not.
I'm not.
I'm not fit for prison anyway.
I'll tell you right now.
Can't be good in China.
Can't be good, bro.
I mean, they might do that too.
They don't give a fuck.
No, they don't care, especially now.
How long ago is this?
This is probably about six, seven years.
Oh, shit.
Okay.
This is recent.
Yeah.
China's different.
Why did you kick it, though?
Like, I don't know.
I just usually don't act out like that.
I just made, well, what was going to make me feel good?
Kick it, baby.
They just handed it right back to me.
I'm like, they think I was bullshitting?
Boom.
What did the crowd do?
Oh, they loved it.
Right when I saw it land back in his hands, I'm like, oh, shit.
Obviously, the worst thing that could happen is it lands back in his hand.
It was like, dink.
Yeah.
He looks up, and I'm just like, oh, shit.
Yeah.
Yes, sir.
I mean, any punter in the NFL would have been proud.
Great.
What's the weirdest place y'all have been?
Overseas.
India.
Wait, why, why, why, why?
India, India.
I'm not going to speak on it, buddy.
India's a different story.
You love that, son.
You need that.
Both of them dropping their head at the exact same stop.
Wait, why, Who did you see taking his shit and where?
What didn't we see?
No, no.
Look, I don't want to disrespect nobody.
I got to sit down now.
India's different.
India's different, man.
Different.
China 10 times.
India is different.
I've been to 30 countries.
Why, why, why?
I've been to 30 countries.
I've been everywhere in the world.
India's different.
But why?
Why?
And it's everything about it.
Just from the stray cows running down the freeway.
Yeah.
Or like traffic.
You think traffic's bad here.
Like, we got to go, I don't know, let's say four blocks.
Yeah.
And I swear to God, it took us two and a half hours.
But come to find out, it wasn't the car, it was a guy up there.
You know, a horse and carriage.
Wasn't a horse, just a carriage and a human barefooted in the freeway, walking.
No.
Yeah.
Downtown Mumbai.
Yeah.
Ain't had a pedicure since pedicures and bitches.
I got to zoom in.
Yeah.
But man, God bless India, though, bro.
It's like, why were y'all there?
We were there for the Kings and the Pacers were playing a preseason game.
Yeah.
And we actually, the Kings had a ambassador.
They had an ambassador from each team.
I was Kings and Kings are owned by an Indian now.
Yes, they are.
Detla Shrimp was the Pacers bastard.
I got to meet Larry Bird there.
That was great.
How's Larry?
Larry's great.
I met Detla Shrimp.
That was the first time I really got to talk to Detla Shrimp.
I was like, look, Detla, I know this is the first time I met you, but look, that's Larry Bird down there.
You played with him.
Please introduce me.
What do you say?
I'm going to whoop your big ass if I don't.
So they're like, oh, right now, let's go.
Finding McDonalds Globally00:04:56
I'm like, oh, I didn't want to go right now.
I'm not ready for this.
So here we go.
But Larry Bird's face is this long.
So he introduced me to Larry Bird, and he stood up, and I'm like, whoa.
I couldn't think of really anything to say.
And I said, so, Larry, does Moonbois remind you of French lick a lot?
French Lick, Indiana is where he grew up.
He said, Yeah, it does.
And when he said, Yeah, it does, I just kind of lost interest because I know you're lying through your teeth, Larry.
There ain't nothing in this world that reminds you of Moon Bwai.
It's one of a kind.
It's nothing like it.
It's just different.
And can't wait to come back.
Can't wait.
We did do a cool thing, though.
They had a floating basketball court.
I don't know if you saw Luca Donchas having some kind of Air Jordan thing on a floating court.
Like on the water?
Yeah.
Yeah, but it was cool, but the water, you didn't want to fall in that water.
No, you don't want to drink the water.
No, You don't want to really eat.
Yeah.
Okay, that's what it was.
That's what it was.
They were so relaxed with the way they handled food and touched food.
Yeah, yeah.
It was just too much.
Hold on.
Hold on.
What's your mission?
What's your money?
You'll get sick.
If it's not hot, you're getting sick.
But what would you see?
Like the way that they would prepare the food you were watching?
No, thank God we didn't see the prepared food.
I'm thinking like, if I ever get a chance to go back to India, I've got to have a microwave with us at all times.
Like I'll have to bring a microwave and some like cups and noodles and shit like that.
I mean, I've been a little bit around the world and I've been able to find something like a McDonald's.
Usually the McDonald's is somewhat, at least the fries.
I don't know about India.
India's just.
McDonald's, you're straight.
Some way you're not.
Some way you're not.
McDonald's is hot.
But they don't have beef.
Oh, they don't have beef.
Yeah.
What are you going to have?
Chicken Maharaja Mac.
Fire.
The chicken Big Mac.
Chicken patties.
What else?
Oh, yeah, the McDonald's menus over there is different too.
Like, you know, you China, McDonald's menus, I have like two hot dogs laying across the Big Mac.
And the hamburger, you know what I mean?
But India, I bet it's crazy too.
They didn't, you know.
Yeah.
We didn't go to McDonald's in India.
We did on that last day.
We did?
Yeah.
Neither one of us got shit.
We found that fried rice spot.
We found some fried rice spot like day three of day seven.
Yeah.
And there was a little hair in his food.
A little.
You had a whole Indian in his hair, bro.
It was your shit.
And again, the casualness of it, bro, was like, you want me to take it out?
You want me to take it out?
That's what I was like, what you mean?
He's like, well, what do you want me to do with it?
Give me a new one.
That's how I knew.
So what's going on behind the scenes?
Nah, man, I'm off that shit.
He didn't eat the rest of the shit.
So you didn't eat?
No.
And I have a diet.
Like, I'm on the diet all the time.
No, not any.
What's your diet?
Yeah, yeah, just standard shit.
You know, egg whites and liver.
No hair.
Oatmeal.
As long as it's not that.
Strictly, no hair is allowed.
Yeah, I get none of that in India.
No, it was.
What else?
Just when you remind me of it, it gives me like the hairs in the back of my neck go up.
Really?
No, the best part of it.
Good sport.
You know, I'm a good sport.
I eat all kinds of shit in all kinds of countries.
I've had snake and dog and rabbit.
I've eaten it.
You had a dog?
Yeah, in China.
So, so, you know, look, he's from a popca, Florida.
But look, we flew from, obviously, to India.
That's a long flight.
So we're trying to get out of there early.
We're going to get a new flight to get up out of there.
I can't have my man flying the back trying to get in business.
I ain't no business class on the early flight.
He's like, fuck it.
I don't care.
I'll ride in the back.
Let's go.
No, no, at all costs.
I said, I don't care.
It's a 16-hour flight.
Tell me how that water went.
We flew over Emirates Business.
You know how those flights are.
I said, y'all can keep all that.
Just put me on the next flight home.
Mind you, I'm a good sport.
I swear I'm a good sport.
Put me on the next flight home.
I don't care where I'm sitting.
I sat right in the middle in the very back.
I had never seen no shit like this in my life.
We got to the back of the flight.
Bruh.
They had a beef.
The guy with the rickshaw.
He was pulling the plane.
He was pulling the plane, bro.
They had a big ass bottle of water back there.
And everybody was just swinging.
No!
Yeah, bro.
You're a liar.
There's no way.
I sat right there.
I didn't move.
I didn't touch nothing.
I sat right here for 16 hours like this.
Yo, that's it.
Yes.
Everybody was in.
Yo, y'all got to do better, bro.
Y'all got to do better, bro.
This man doesn't even like sharing food.
He doesn't even like sharing food.
That must have been bad.
That must have been bad.
Oh, no.
Chauncey Steps Up00:09:32
That's so funny.
I'm off it.
Oh, man.
And we flew Emirates Business on the way.
I had my own refrigerator on my seat.
On the way back, I'm like, that's true.
Just get me home.
Bro.
It was different.
Okay, what other companies?
What airline did you fly on the way back?
You flew Air India?
Shit.
Because I don't even do that.
No, it was Raggley as hell, but whatever it was.
Ragley.
Ragley.
Raggedy.
Raggedy's what I was saying.
Naggy.
Raggley.
Raggley.
Yeah.
Raggley.
Yeah, hey, I got it.
I'm teaching him a few things.
Yeah, I'm learning.
Tagger.
Tagger.
Did y'all see the way he was looking at me when I said Tagger earlier?
These shits went.
I was just trying to figure out what the fuck.
I was like, who is this amazing athlete that I've never heard of?
Who is Tagger?
He gets stopped everywhere with everybody.
Bro, I thought it was a horse.
I thought it was like a sea biscuit.
Yeah, it was like Sea Biscuit or Tagger or something.
Like, how do I not know this amazing horse?
Tagger?
But now I get it.
Yeah.
We went to Indonesia.
That was interesting.
How was that?
Oh, then we got our visa as soon as we landed on the runway.
We got off the plane, got our visa there.
Okay.
Yeah, you were.
Different.
Okay.
Cost us, I think it was like $278, $2.78 for a visa.
Okay.
Indonesia.
We played in an arena.
It was like closed in, kind of like SoFi.
You've been in SoFi state?
But it's not really closed in.
Yeah.
I mean, it was so hot.
Like during timeouts, I'm trying to sit in the cooler, in the water clip.
So I couldn't do it.
Damn near a dirt floor, wasn't it?
It was.
Damn me.
I mean, whatever you want to call that.
Indonesia's different too.
Were the refs cheating over there too?
No, they were happy to see us, Americans.
I think Vin Baker, it was a lot of a long time ago.
Remember, Vin Baker was still playing.
Who was the old head that went with us?
Played for Milwaukee a long time ago, man.
These were charity games or these are just like charities?
Just like a Chinese group, Cats With Money?
Yeah.
We'll put on like a exhibition game.
Bring like some ex-retired NBA guys, and then we'll fill out the roster with like our homies or G-League guys that are trying to get on maybe in the Chinese leagues or something like that.
You know what I mean?
What's the biggest bag you ever got for one of those?
Oh, man, I get $100,000, $150,000, maybe?
Just for exactly.
It depends on how many games I played.
Obviously, you play more games.
If you play games, you get paid more.
Well, that's the way I work out.
But I think my man AI, he hits him in the head when he goes over there.
Oh, I couldn't.
No, you have to.
For sure.
Just for him to show up.
He's going to get some bread.
Yeah.
But like in China, man, it's crazy to me how many fans there are in China of basketball.
Yeah.
I think it's the difference in here in China.
It's like 13-year-olds to like, let's say, 35-year-olds love the NBA here, right?
Well, they're 10-year-olds to fucking 90-year-olds.
All of that bitch.
Fucking love it.
Wow.
Love it, bro.
That's really cool.
Yeah.
And what's their team, Houston, right?
I'm sure it'd be Houston because Yao Ming, you know, they play Trace McGrady's huge over there, too.
Yeah.
He shuts shit down.
Wait, really?
Yeah.
Like, shuts shit down.
Did he spend a lot of time playing exhibition games there?
I just think because he was so good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think he went over there at the end of his career and played a year or two over there in the Chinese basketball.
What's that like?
Have you spoken to guys who like went and played there for the year?
Yeah.
And what do they say?
That's different.
You know, like they're like, you can only have two Americans on your team.
Most of those European teams, you can only have two Americans.
So that's why it's so important for an American guy to get a dual citizenship.
Oh, so he doesn't count.
As an American.
Right.
That's interesting.
And they only got X amount of money to pay the other players.
Correct.
And would that have been anything you would have considered late in career?
No.
You don't want to be far from your family.
I don't want to do that, but China for me is like a seven-day top.
That's as long as I can stay.
Yeah.
What happens after that?
Well, in your body.
I start to die.
Well, I mean, that's what it is.
I can't eat shit.
So when he said, I don't like other people touching my food.
And then he said he didn't like India.
I was like, I know.
Yeah, I get it.
I get it.
India.
Of course he don't.
I'm so glad though I got to go to India, though.
Yeah.
I'm so thankful that I got to do all this types of shit that I've gotten to do.
Yeah.
And I hope there's more to come, I swear.
What about how is dog?
I don't really know.
I mean, I was eating all kinds of shit.
And afterwards, they told me, by the way, you ate such and such and such.
Really?
I said, I'm a good sport.
They put some shit out there, I'll try it.
I know he ain't going to try shit.
Thank you.
That's crazy.
They paid him to try it.
And he ain't going to try shit.
And I'm adventurous.
So I'm like, well, fuck it.
I'll eat it.
That's great.
He ate dog, but wasn't eating India.
In the country.
In the country.
But he didn't know it was dog.
Let's give it to him.
He didn't know.
He didn't know.
But you knew.
He wouldn't ate that shit if he knew from the get-go, I bet.
I wouldn't let him.
All the other stuff I ain't afraid of.
I'm not tried at all.
Do you know what breed?
Fucking rats and horse.
I tried it all.
Yeah, a horse ain't bad.
But what about the breed of dog?
Do you know the breed?
No, I mean.
Cocker Spaniard.
You can see him hanging down on the side of the street.
No.
Yeah, in the Philippines, though, yeah.
You know how you like at the hot dog stands here?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Literally hot dog.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dog is dripping blood.
Whoa.
Listen, man.
It's different.
It's a long way from Bell.
Basketball.
Global game, yeah.
It's a global game.
What's the edibles story you mentioned?
Can I?
Yeah.
Talent.
Just a good one.
Allegedly.
Allegedly.
Allegedly, because you know you can't have edibles in China.
No, of course not.
We always fly out of LAX.
Jay picked up some edibles on the way.
He was still kind of new in the edibles game.
We get out to China.
It's like, I don't know, the first day or something.
We get into this event.
I think Tracy McGrady was with us.
A couple NBA guys.
Chauncey Billup saved the day.
Yeah.
Saved the day.
Like they would have revoked my passport and everything wasn't been for Chauncey.
Well, he was doing like little interviews or something.
And we're in a big group.
It wasn't like one of our normal groups because in China, like a small group would be like 100,000 people.
You know, he's like 100,000 people right there.
We're in a small little group and they're like doing little short interviews and they bring Jay up.
But what happened was before we got out the van, it was his first time doing the edibles.
He's like, hey, can you read up?
Because we got the internet.
He's like, read up how much, how many milligrams I should take?
So I'm like, reading.
It was like little, little, little things.
I'm like, okay, so if it's your first time, you should probably take like eight to 10 milligrams.
I looked over.
He took the whole thing.
No.
But the whole thing was four pieces of whole things.
I think he ended up with 200 milligrams or something.
Oh my God.
On his first rip.
Shit.
On his first rip.
Way over there, bro.
Way over there.
No matter where you're at, you were in China.
Have you taken foreign edibles, bro?
That's his first rip.
So he doesn't know.
You just look like you're making fun of him.
Yeah.
That's right.
I was right where I needed to be.
We're inside and I can see he started to slow down a bit.
I'm keeping an eye on.
That's my dog.
You know what I'm saying?
I'll make sure he don't want to make a bad name for himself.
They ask him up to start doing an interview or something.
I can start to see, like, oh, he's, he's, he's getting.
He's looking different.
And I'm keeping an eye on him.
I'm like, oh shit.
He gets one point.
He's dribbling the ball and he's talking to the guy.
He didn't know the ball stopped.
It wasn't with him no more.
Three more dribbles.
Still giving the interview.
And he was on point with it.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
And I'm like, hey, bro.
Yo, where's this interview?
We need a button as well.
We need it.
I think Chauncey stepped in and like started doing his thing.
And I took Jay, like, hey, let's get on out of here.
Take a quick little break.
Go get you some water.
And I got him to the van and we sat inside this van.
And it looked like all the whatever, all the water molecules in his body had been sucked out.
He looked like an old catcher's nick.
He was so dry.
And he was like, hey.
Them things were no joke.
And I remember like it was yesterday.
It was called TKO Punch.
Shout out to TKO Punch.
Them things.
I don't even think they make them no more, dude.
We have since discovered which one it was, and they only make them no more.
See?
And we found out the guy in the shop was like, oh, I remember those.
He said one word.
Dangerous.
Dangerous.
Whoa, and you had two of the bars.
Four acts where you're supposed to have.
It's only like a little square.
It's only like a little square, like a 50 cent.
It's supposed to have like eight to 10 milligrams.
He had 200.
He had like 20 times more than we're supposed to.
So what happened?
Did you?
So he's in, we're in the van.
I tell you what, I slept great for how many months?
We're in the van, but I was the only one in the van.
He was looking so far past me.
Like the look in his eyes, I've never seen it before.
I've never seen it since.
I'm like, bro, you good?
And I got a pretty good tolerance, but I would imagine.
Those things.
Do you remember anything?
Like from that event, like from taking them to waking up?
No, I don't remember none of that.
No, no, no.
I got to tell him that story.
That's how it went down.
So when do you recover?
When do you come back on?
Oh, probably sometime that evening, I'm saying.
Really?
New Magic Trick Plans00:05:54
Yeah.
That fast?
Me, dude.
If I take too much, I'm gone.
Wow.
I mean, still high as shit that evening.
You know, like, I was high as giraffe pussy.
I'm telling you right now.
Which is a dish in China.
Bro, the edibles fuck.
I remember I was out for three days once on Edibles, man.
Those things aren't no joke.
They're not a fucking game.
Dribble went down the ball.
Joe, dribble it down the ball is crazy.
Handling that thing.
Still talking.
Yeah.
I had to come scoop up like the reporters just so polite, they're not going to say that I'm saying noise like that.
Oh, no.
Dude.
Yeah.
It was bad.
It was bad.
But I was right where I needed to be.
If everybody could get to where I was, life would be better for everyone.
Seriously.
Seriously.
I don't know how long it will be better for them, but it was going to be better for them.
For that moment.
Yes.
It would have been way better.
Yes.
Bro.
Oh, my goodness.
I want to see this.
We got two decks of cars.
All right, look, which deck you want?
I want that one.
You shuffle it.
Shuffle it till you're ready.
You tell me when you're done.
Yes, sir.
All right.
You done?
Let me give it a couple more.
Fuck you up a little bit right here.
There we go.
Done.
Perfectly.
Put it right in.
All right.
Do you like to just follow my lead?
Quit that deck.
Yep.
Pick your favorite card.
Like you're doing it?
And let's lay it down on the don't let me see it, though.
And lay it down on the table.
Yep.
Oh, layman.
Okay.
Put the deck down right there.
Put it on top.
All right, cut it.
Put that on top, all right.
This time, cut it like real deep.
Boom!
You want to cut him some more?
No, it's fine.
Okay, take this deck.
Pick your same favorite card.
Okay, put it on top of the deck.
Okay, I'm gonna pick my same favorite card.
If we got the same favorite card, I don't think I can show you the rest of the trick.
That's the only crazy part about this trick.
So here, what was your favorite card?
Oh, no, man.
That's so fire, dude.
Holy shit.
Type shit he'd be on.
I don't get how that's possible.
That's not possible.
I don't get how that's possible.
I don't get how that's possible.
I think you're easy to read, dude.
I think you're not standing.
The come on, bro.
I chose it.
I cut it and then I recut it.
You did the you have to know the card.
He did them all.
He did all of them.
All of them.
But the other ones I think are there's math involved.
This is magic.
MGM.
I don't get that one.
I did all the cutting for that.
And I cut it however I want to cut it.
So even if I did, like, you know, put it on the bottom so it goes wherever.
How do you know my card before I he's in your head?
I think he had it in his hand the whole time.
Somehow he just got it and just got it on top.
But I chose it.
Can you do it again to him?
Fucking right.
Which deck you want?
Take this one.
Shuffle it up.
Tell me when you get to the next one.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, come on.
Pull the colour on the side.
You say when you're done, he's so angry, dude.
I'm just trying to figure this out.
He just hates it.
Just steaming.
All right.
All right.
You ready, Rock?
Yeah.
Put that deck down.
Get it all nice.
Man, fuck it.
There you go.
All right, pick it up.
Pick your favorite card out of that junk.
You got to look at me before you pick it, though.
All right.
All right.
I got you now.
I ain't going to look at it.
I'm going to put mine on top like that right there.
All right.
Put it on top.
Yes, sir.
All right, cut them junks.
All right, cut this one real deep.
Want to cut him some more?
Yeah.
How you want to cut it?
Like right now?
Cut it?
No, right on the top.
Oh, just one card.
Yeah.
Oh, shit.
All you're trying to trick you now is pick your same favorite card.
All right.
Hmm.
You ain't put it back in there.
He all right.
Nah, we'll just cut the bullshit.
Oh, shit.
Let's go.
Straight to it.
Let's go.
That's fine.
Nah, this is crazy.
They didn't even let you get to it.
I don't like that.
He didn't even let you get to it.
I don't like that.
Hey, man, Jason, thank you so much for coming, man.
Appreciate it.
If I can help y'all out, any y'all don't need my help, but anytime you need me, bro.
Dude, God.
The same.
Yeah, bro.
Anything you're working on, please let us know, dude.
This has been great.
And please always continue to bring Nick around.
For sure.
We're going to work on a new magic trick.
Yeah, we got to talk to the wizard.
The wizard.
I don't know, man.
Yeah, I think there was some Chinese interference right there.