Andrew Schulz and Akaash Singh dissect Dave Chappelle's recent special, arguing his massive platform makes him a strategic "tipping point" against cancel culture. They posit that executives prioritize profit over morality, targeting the trans community because its foreignness offers easier controversy than established gay rights. The hosts analyze Chappelle's rhetorical claim of advocating equal rights as a clever trap forcing corporate capitulation, while exploring internal LGBTQ+ friction regarding gender fluidity and "Two Spirit" terminology. Ultimately, they question societal double standards on medical modifications, contrasting accepted cosmetic surgeries with stigmatized gender-affirming procedures to highlight shifting cultural norms. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Chappelle's Cultural Currency00:06:53
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Anything else from Chappelle and the special?
It seems like the outrage continues.
It seems like, I don't want to speak too soon, but it seems like this might be the tipping point.
Yes.
It seems like the executives might have realized that they could push back and there will be more support in their pushback than there will be in their cancellation.
And I think Chappelle is an example of someone who's too big to fail.
In other words, like at the end of the day, like these people are capitalists, right?
They're not moralists.
They're capitalists.
So, as they should be, they exist in a capitalist country.
And when we're talking about saying words and saying jokes, you're not, listen, I'm not going to define like how you're actually hurting somebody, but you're not basically saying you are not equal to other people.
Being spoken about is different than treating someone actually differently in terms of like the law.
Like if the head of Netflix came out and said, like, yeah, we just don't do any trans shows on this platform.
That would be wrong.
But if the head of Netflix is like, hey, we have jokes about black people.
We have jokes about Jews.
We have jokes about Puerto Ricans.
We have jokes about Asians.
Everybody gets joked about on this platform, including trans.
There is more consistency, even if you're outraged.
All of those groups can also be outraged.
But he is big enough where it's worth the scrutiny.
Yes.
And maybe that's unfortunate for like a younger comic coming up, but at the same time, you get to look at it and you go, oh shit, there's a tipping point.
I can get successful enough to say what the fuck I want.
I had the exact same feeling.
And I said this, I didn't think in the same terms of pure capitalism, but I said this when Chappelle did Sticks and Stones, to be honest, is my least favorite of the six Netflix specials, but it knew it was really important that that guy was going at cancel culture.
We can be forerunners of flagrancy and all of that, but Chappelle is the guy that has enough cultural currency where if he fights back against it, the silent majority feels a little bit more like being like, yeah, yeah, I can, now they can get a little louder and say, yo, Chappelle's funny.
You can act like he's offensive, but I don't give a fuck.
He's funny.
And I'm very confident saying Chappelle is funny and y'all are wrong.
And once he started doing that and leaned in and didn't back off, I think you heard every, dude, I remember Bossa posted something a week ago about it.
And the comments in Bossip tend to be pretty liberal, but they were like, yo, the special is funny.
These guys need to just let it go.
Funny is funny.
And that is where I think I was like, yeah, this is the tipping point.
This is the guy that needed to do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's like, I don't know.
There's just, there's something to having that currency, having that value as an entertainer where you have earned the right to get away with these things because the corporations don't take any loss.
Yeah.
You know, it's similar to being a feature on the road.
Like, let's say you're featuring for somebody in stand-up, right?
You can say whatever you want to say when you go on stage before that headliner.
And you can say whatever you go on stage when you're performing that club for the first time.
But your goal is to continue performing at the club.
Now, you can be the hard ass.
You can choose to go, I'm going to say whatever the fuck I want.
I don't care if these venues let me play, et cetera.
And then you might not get any stage time and it might be harder for you to develop your act, et cetera.
But you can also choose to play by the rules that the venue has imposed on you or the headliner has imposed on you.
And then learn how to succeed within those rules and build up your audience, build up your leverage to the point where you can make a Chappelle-type situation where you can get away with whatever you want.
Yes.
And look, we found different ways around it when we were starting out.
What we basically said is, well, we're going to produce our own shows.
Producing your own show is like being your own Netflix.
Yes.
A microcosm of it, but you can't get canceled from your own show.
Way less subscribers to our Patreon than Netflix, but it's ours.
Yes.
We can't fire ourselves from it.
Yes.
I mean, I guess Patreon could do something.
What I mean, like live stand-up shows.
You know what I mean?
But if you're willing to play within the system, that's something that you're going to have to negotiate with and see how much clout you could build up and what you can get away with.
And also, this is again hammering my point home.
Defending Chappelle as a human being doesn't require much bravery.
If you want to defend me, who nobody really, like people don't really know like that, you got to be real fucking sure I'm funny.
But you can very confidently, as just a fan, be like, nah, Chappelle is funny.
Y'all are wrong.
Defending a guy that's kind of obscure or whatever, doesn't have nearly the spotlight, it just takes a lot more strength for a common person to even tweet, nah, Chappelle is funny.
These guys are wrong.
It's also the perfect group to pick to be canceled for because the majority of people truly don't understand trans.
So people do understand gay, even if they don't like it.
They understand it.
They empathize with it.
They have an uncle that's gay.
They have a cousin that's gay.
They have a friend that's gay.
There's something about homosexuality that's just way more understandable.
They've seen characters in their favorite TV shows that are gay.
They understand it.
You probably have a gay family member.
Yeah, that's what I was saying.
An uncle's gay.
My bad, yeah.
So, so it's just way more digestible homosexuality.
So when you're saying something that the gay community is offering pushback for, all of a sudden you start thinking about that human being that you know and love.
Yes.
Right?
Trans is so foreign to the average person.
Right.
Like, I know, Mark, you said you have a trans friend, but like, anybody else here have not only trans friend, like a trans person in any way in their life?
Yep.
Who?
Mark's friend that he just said.
Anyway, I want like someone that you personally interact with.
Literally the person that serves you coffee at your favorite diner.
Yeah, no, not at all.
It is such a small part of the population that occupies such a large part of the conversation, right?
Because I'm sure it's thrown into this culture war a little bit, but it's the perfect group that if you have to get canceled for something, because the majority of people, we're not talking about industry, the majority of people have no fucking clue what the trans thing is.
So they're kind of like, I don't really care what you say.
It's like getting canceled for like the Hmong Chinese population.
It's like, how many is that?
Exactly.
So now if you're a network exec, you're like, hold on, I'm going to cancel the biggest comedian for a group of people that don't even got a Netflix account.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, 0.1% of Netflix accounts are from this community.
I'm going to cancel my biggest comic for that.
I'm a capitalist.
Canceling For Tiny Groups00:02:45
And that don't make no fucking sense.
Yeah.
So it is the perfect group to beef with.
Like, if you want to die on a horse of racism, you're going to be dead.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
You want to die on a horse of homophobia?
You're going to be dead.
You want to die the horse of some sort of religious bigotry?
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like attacking Christians or something like that?
Like Christians are a little bit easier to go after, but still, you're going to have a large percent of the country going, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Really, any religion.
You go after Islam.
I mean, he attacked Jews.
Oh, he attacked Israel.
And he barely didn't.
He just had a couple of jokes, nothing crazy.
Yeah.
If he said what he said about Jewish people, about trans people.
Oh, forget it.
It's over.
If he made the whole special just about the Israel-Palestine situation, like he did about the trans thing.
Gotcha.
Oh, we're going to have a conversation.
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Also, a smart move for him, this is a testament to Neil talking about how good his brain is, is to say, I'm not transphobic.
I just wish black people had the same rights as trans people.
So if you cancel Dave Chappelle, you kind of prove his point.
If you pull him from Netflix, it's like, oh, you're canceling a black guy for saying, hey, please give us the same rights as trans people?
Now it's a very clever positioning.
That's the way I'm trying to word it.
Yes, because he wins either way.
Weird Gender Norms00:10:39
Yeah.
His point is proven if you cancel him.
And if he doesn't get canceled, then awesome.
Yeah.
I mean, he says this brilliant line where he says, if you think I'm transphobic, you're not listening or something like that.
Yes.
Yeah, that was so good.
I already said that.
I got to use that on my girl.
If you think I'm wrong, you're not listening to what I'm saying.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, say, even in the middle of the fight, like, if you think I don't love you, you're not listening.
And she's like, what?
I mean, it's a brilliant thing.
Even though we were talking about it, I heard you say that.
I'm like, yeah, you must love her.
I love you.
Why are we arguing?
Yeah.
Why would we be disagreeing about how much I love you?
And then she's like, we're not even fucking talking about love right now.
I guess we're not, man.
He's brilliant, man.
Such a simple ass line.
Just get you like, he's good.
Anything.
Because it makes you question your own.
Like, am I an idiot?
Did I not catch?
Am I stupid?
Maybe I'm not listening.
And what he was saying was 100% transphobic.
That's the genius of it.
It was by definition transphobic.
Now, by trans people's definition of transphobia, it is by the book transphobic.
Yes.
But also by their definition, 95% of people are transphobic.
Yes.
Because 95% of people are ignorant to what they define transphobia as.
Yes.
95% of people just sitting here like, bro, like, I don't get it.
Yeah.
You're a guy or you're a girl.
Yeah.
That's all.
You know what I mean?
Like, we do not understand all this other shit.
Yeah.
And it gets cloudy with the million different genders.
It just keeps changing.
It feels like they're not losing, but you ever play a game with like your cousin when you're kids and then he just keeps switching the rules up to win.
Yeah.
It's like, what's going on?
Yeah.
That's kind of, I think, an underlying emotion we have about like, what, what is True Spirit?
I wonder if trans people, like the OG trans people, are kind of annoyed by all these like new genders.
Yeah.
Because, but they can't say anything because they're fighting for the same cause.
So it's like, you know how like gays were kind of annoyed by trans when trans came out?
Yeah.
Because they're like, we got to include them, but God damn.
We just got this shit.
Yeah.
Like, come on, yo, stop clouding it up.
Where you been this whole time, right?
We got all the rights.
Now you're here.
And then the trans, maybe they feel the same way about two spirit and all these other ones because it's like they're out here like, listen, gender is fluid.
And then these other people like, oh, yeah, it is.
Oh, my God, bro.
We just want them to accept the fact that I don't have a penis, but I think I'm a guy.
Apparently, there is beef.
Have you heard of this dude, Buck Angel?
Yes, the fucking workout guy.
Workout trans.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mustache.
Like, trans person from like the 80s, the 90s.
Yeah.
And like has all this beef with like new trans people because like he would just do shit that was like, yeah, he would like call himself a transvestite and he like did porn because like he didn't really know where to fit in the world.
He's like, I feel like a guy.
So I guess what I would say to trans people is like the way y'all feel about the two spirits, most people feel about y'all.
Right?
Like, so whatever emotion you got when you hear someone saying, I'm two spirit and I'm 69th J, I'm asexual, I'm part, whatever.
Like when you look at them and you go, oh my God, here we go again.
That's unfortunately for you how most people that just identify as male or female view the trans community.
So have a little empathy.
Yeah.
Because even though you truly feel what you're going through is real and it is real to you.
I'm assuming it is real to you.
As ridiculous as these other things are to you, you might be just that ridiculous to somebody who just grew up and I'm going to throw some quotes normal.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Have some empathy.
Have some empathy.
It's an easy position to have empathy for, I think.
Which I think most people do.
It's just like all the Twitter shit.
Again, I think, matter of fact, there was a trans comic on the show that I performed with and I said, and they were mad cool.
He was mad cool, I guess, the whole time.
And we're just talking shit.
And then at the end, he says something.
I go, yes, ma'am.
And I'm like, yo, my bad.
I didn't mean to.
And then he just goes, it's all good, man.
It's fine.
I appreciate you apologizing.
Reaches a hand out.
And it's like, oh, if he took that opportunity to shame me, I'd have been like, yo, fuck these motherfuckers, dog.
But he was like, hey, it's cool.
I appreciate the apology.
I was like, oh, okay.
Oh, it's a girl the guy?
Girl, the guy.
If, again, if they took that high horse opportunity to be like, how dare you?
I'd have been like, hi, motherfucker.
Can I not just make a mistake?
Yeah.
That's exactly how he treated her.
It's like, yeah, it's so good.
That's another thing.
I bet most trans people are okay with the mistakes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's how there's this comic that I know that I'm friends with.
I'd like, I said, guy, it was guy to girl.
I said, yo, what's up, man?
Or something like that.
I was like, oh, my bad.
And then she goes, I mean, it's cool.
I didn't know I was a girl until like two years anyway.
Yeah.
I was like, all right.
It took you 17 years to figure this shit out.
Yeah, I'll give you a few months.
You'll figure it out.
So, like, I don't know.
Most people I know.
I mean, I only know one trans.
All right, just my last question.
Like, when they got a piss real bad, like, if you're a trans woman, but you still got the schmecks, you know, when you got a pee bad, you, like, rolling up to the urinal, like pulling your dick.
Like, you're a guy in that situation, right?
Like, you can't not be a guy.
Like, even the way you rip your cock out real fast.
Oh, yeah.
Like, there's nothing female about that moment.
Like, when you're like pacing from side to side, like, moving back.
You can't pull your dick out like a woman.
How?
I don't know, like, more delicately, like, with the fingers.
I'm saying, when you got a go-go, are you sitting down in the toilet or are you whipping that shit out and you just have to do it?
But you can whip it out femininely.
How?
Just with your finger.
Like, I don't know.
Nah, nah.
If you got a pee, you got to pee, bro.
What'd you do like that?
Something like Willow Smith, like, just whip your hair back and forth.
I just whip their dick out back and forth, son.
You can whip it out.
Nah.
You can pull your bag.
Women be whipping.
You can pull your dick out like a lady, bro.
Pinky's out.
Nah, dog.
But you have to pee bad.
Yeah, but just because you got a pee-bad doesn't mean you're not going to be a woman in that moment.
We're not going to keep arguing.
But the whole trans community doesn't even agree with itself.
Because Flame Monroe is a trans woman, but doesn't consider herself a woman.
She doesn't identify as a woman.
She says, I'm a trans woman.
No, no, no.
She says, I would never say I'm a woman.
She says it's offensive to women.
Yeah, yeah.
She says I'm a trans woman.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's like, even that, it's like they're fighting within their own community in terms of.
So is every community.
Black people, gays, like Asians, like every community is fighting amongst themselves.
Like, we can't look at them as a monolith.
And it's what we all go through.
It's also way newer, too.
Yeah, they figure this shit out.
Yeah, America didn't even, America was like, everyone's equal.
Almost.
Took us a little bit.
Nah, still try to figure it out.
They need a trans civil war.
It's going to be lit.
Oh, trans civil war because it's the first one.
The women are going to win.
So trans civil war got to make it happen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it is what it is, man.
I think gays and lesbians still trying to figure that shit out.
Well, that's the craziest thing.
Is you have this whole community, the LGBTQ plus community.
And like, I just know a bunch of gay people are like, yeah, I don't fuck with the trans shit.
Yeah.
Like, really?
I just assumed you guys were all on the same page.
And they're like, nah.
Yeah, yeah.
Because they never had anything more than them.
And then trans are going to get some shit more than them.
Yeah.
And they're going to go through the same thing.
Yeah.
That's what I was kind of saying earlier.
Like, it just gets more and more extreme.
You know what I mean?
Like, you've heard about those like body dysmorphia people who feel like they shouldn't have their leg so they get their leg amputated.
Yeah.
Whoa.
And it's illegal in some places.
It should be.
I've never heard that.
I mean, should it be?
But I was actually thinking your body.
Yeah.
No, but you're just making everybody's life harder.
Everybody.
Wow.
You're not making anyone's life but yourself harder.
If you feel like your finger's not yours and you get it removed, why shouldn't you?
First of all, you get the ill-ass parking spot.
That's a good point.
If you do it just for a party spot, that's fucked up.
There's a person that was born with no legs that would love that parking spot, probably.
Yeah.
Second of all, we got to wheel your dumbass around everywhere.
No, you will yourself.
Oh, you ain't ever helped a person in a wheelchair?
Finger.
Let's go finger.
Just finger off.
Finger off.
All right.
It's got to be a line, though.
You know what I mean?
You can't do whole appendages.
You want to lose a toe?
You got that.
Well, that's the thing is, like, I was actually thinking about this.
We think, oh, if you get a body part removed, you're fucking crazy.
You're insane.
But women get breast reductions all the time.
All the time.
And we go, yeah.
They get the fucking uterus scooped out.
Angelina Jolie got no pussy.
Hollow.
Angelina Jolie hollow because she was worried about getting pussy cancer.
It's literally breasts and her pussy.
If you kill her pussy an extra.
She got her pussy.
That's a grand canyon.
Vacuums.
Literally.
Took the whole shit out because she was worried about getting ovarian cancer.
So she's trans.
No tits, no pussy.
She's a dude.
That's a great point that he's making right now.
Is it pussy too?
What?
I don't think it's pussy too, but if it is pussy, she's a dude.
Look it up.
She got ovarian.
She was worried about getting ovarian cancer.
She probably has some cyst.
You put your ear up to her pelvis.
You just hear the ocean.
Yep.
You can hear it.
Clearly.
And if you put her, put your nose up, you can smell it probably.
So, yeah, I just think, look, we're doing it already.
We have those weirdos that get the fucking gauges in their ears and shit.
You know, some of them get their ears snipped so they look like a tiger.
They get their nose.
You get part of your nose removed.
Yeah.
No, I hate them too.
You know what's weird?
You add something to your body and it's way more understandable.
Like taking away is what's weird.
Like if you, if you're a girl and you have fucking crippling back pain and you reduce the size of your tits, we're like, yo, what is wrong?
Like that's weird or something.
Like, like, you're out of here.
Like, what's happening, right?
But if you get huge breast implants that make your back hurt, people are like, sick.
There we go.
There we go.
It's like surgery to make your life easier makes sense.
Surgery to make your life harder doesn't.
Yeah.
And that's the equation we're trying to solve.
Turning yourself into a trans woman or trans male.
We look at it and we're like, yo, your life is about to be tough.
Yeah.
You were just a cis regular person.
Now all of a sudden you're a disenfranchised minority group.
You asked for it, right?
Even though you did it.
But like, we're looking like, why would you do this?
Bro, just like identify as a chick, but just dress normal so that your day is okay.
Right.
Even though I understand it's hard for them to do that.
That's the outward perception of ease.
Of course.
Because you look at a girl with big tissue and you go, oh man, your life must be so easy.
The back is killing her, back's killing her, hates her life.
So, walk that shit off, bro.
Yeah, maybe that's one way of doing it.
But, what about rods in your back?
Why can't you just, if you're gonna get something added, get like rods in your back, your ass posture your whole life?
Yeah, have great posture, make your back strong, and then your titties can hang freely.
Oh, but maybe you can't bend over with the rods in your back, unimportant.
Big ass titties, you're gonna be like, You don't like my bird drinking, please, please.
Yeah, it is weird.
It is weird that what we accept, what we don't accept.