Sheltie and Akash dissect Joe Rogan's controversy over speech limitations for white men, arguing media outlets exploit his profile for clicks rather than seeking truth. They debate "punching down" as a necessary comedic tool against safe "punching up," while noting privilege is fluid, citing LeBron James and Jaden Smith. The hosts suggest cancel culture will fade as creators gain independence via Patreon or Netflix, insulating them from corporate scrutiny that targets mainstream platforms like Spotify to protect stock prices. Ultimately, they advocate for empathy and growth over permanent cancellation, acknowledging financial incentives drive both political sides to exploit controversy. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Joe Rogan Cancel Culture Lightning Rod00:05:52
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They're coming after the goat once again.
They're never going to stop.
They're really never going to stop.
They're really never going to stop.
So basically, Joe Rogan is having a conversation about the limitations of what we can say now.
I think in like a corporate environment, he was talking more so.
But like, and he's saying, basically, it's going to get to the point where if you're a straight white male, you just can't have an opinion.
You can't say anything.
And obviously he got crazy pushback because, you know, Joe's a straight white male and he's been able to make an incredible living saying pretty much whatever he wants.
I mean, obviously he gets tons of like backlash and pushback, but he's still able to do it.
And now he's part of a corporation and he's able to continue to do it, even though he's part of a corporation.
There's things that he walks back.
There's things that he apologized for, as you should if you say something that you didn't mean or something was misinterpreted or you get new information.
I'm not angry at that at all.
But I don't think Joe is speaking for him.
Like Joe is a very unique situation.
I don't know if ever in history there's been an independent guy that became the largest media personality in the world.
I don't know if that's ever happened.
Usually those people are tied to some sort of corporation.
They have some sort of mutual interest with like super billionaires, et cetera.
For whatever the fuck reason, Joe was able to ascend to that super stardom, right?
There's a trust.
People valued what he had to say.
They valued the voices that he brought on the podcast and they truly believed that he was the person that was going to help share truth and add a little bit more perspective to the world.
Right.
He's not talking about him.
I think he's talking about the young person that doesn't have that type of leverage.
Yeah.
And how those people could get caught up in a game and those people could feel like if they're in a corporate environment, they're at work, they just can't share their opinion about something because they might get fired.
And I don't think that that's untrue.
It's interesting.
It seems like this seems like the more liberal response, whereas like the conservative response was whenever like LeBron James would come out and say like, oh, there's wealth inequality in America or like black people have a heart in America.
And people go, oh, you make so many millions of dollars.
Like that's, you know, that's so hypocritical.
But he's not talking about him.
He's talking about black people in America.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
I think he got hyperbolic and then people took that literally when he was like, it's going to get to the point where, and he did say, I'm serious, but I assume he was being hyperbolic.
Like it's going to get to the point where white dudes can't go outside.
We can't say anything because of our privilege.
I don't think it's going to get to that point, but it is.
You guys aren't allowed to say much.
Yeah.
And the left will say you can say less because you're white, which I don't, that's not my philosophy.
I see this as equals and we can say whatever the fuck we want.
I'll give a little pushback on that.
You can say whatever you want.
You just have to accept what comes with that.
Some people aren't willing to accept what comes with that.
And some people don't have the leverage to do that.
I mean, like, you can't sit on this podcast and say that like white guys can't say whatever they want because you sit across from a white guy who's straight and literally says whatever they want every single Tuesday and Thursday.
Yeah, that's fair.
I think sometimes the consequences outpace what was said.
Right.
There's not, I'm not going back in every case of a white guy ever getting canceled, but there are literally people on the left who are like, no, you can't say as much.
You're white.
You can't punch down.
Yeah, we're all on the channel.
Same pitch.
Yeah.
That's a real thing.
And I think when Joe was like, I'm serious, it's going to get to the point where you can't go outside.
People are like, what are you talking about?
I think he was being hyperbolic because I want to give him the benefit of the doubt.
But I also don't think his general point of, yo, straight white dudes can't say as much as everybody else, that's not false.
The left will acknowledge that.
You're not allowed to say as much because of your privilege.
So, a couple of things I think are going on here.
And I think, like, one thing that people aren't considering is the value of clickability and how that influences news and how that influences a story.
And once your name becomes synonymous with views, people are going to try to have a comment on whatever the fucking story it is.
Okay.
So, for example, like Joe Rogan talking about straight white males is gold.
I would say Bitcoin, but now it's fucking worth nothing.
Because if they can criticize the biggest name in media and attach it to a philosophy that all their people really care to hear opinions on, but justify their own opinion, which is, hey, white male, you should shut up, or white males have privilege, or white males, whatever.
And you attach Joe Rogan, that story, to the moon.
Hundreds of thousands of views, maybe millions of views.
They're salivating once they get that story.
Right?
Just like I'm sure right-wing media places are salivating the second LeBron says something, right?
The second he speaks out about how people should be treated while it kind of ignores what's happening in China or is totally willing to capitulate to whatever China tells the NBA they should do.
Right.
So the clickability drives the story.
It's not like truth drives the story.
Clickability does.
And right now, you know, Joe Rogan is such a fucking lightning rod that whatever he talks about that's going to serve either side, they are going to go for it because they're going to make money on it.
It's profitable to talk about Joe.
We're talking about it right now.
Yeah.
Right.
We're probably going to release a clip of this, right?
People want to hear about it.
It's view worthy to so many fucking people.
So I think that there's this two things happening.
Punching Down and Power Structures00:09:07
I think there's an illusion of care, right?
And an illusion of fear.
I don't think like the average white guy is like concerned, like that they can't say anything.
I think the average white guy is like, I think that that could happen.
I do think in like public settings, maybe I won't be able to say some stuff.
I do feel like maybe I'd be fired.
Maybe I wouldn't be looked at as a job for looked at for a job first.
Like the average straight white guy is going like, I might have something against me for getting a job at some corporation.
Right.
But I don't think they're actually walking around fearful.
Do you think that?
Maybe I'm detached.
No, I don't think they're walking around fearful.
I just think there's an idea that you can't say as much because you can't punch down, which is to me, maybe this is too broad, but like that general idea bothers me because if you say punching down, automatically you're putting yourself above that person.
Right.
The idea of punching down, I hate.
So we're all equal.
So we can all punch in my mind.
I know white people have been given privilege throughout this country, but I just think that there's only there's a limit to that.
And I think that's what Joe was trying to say.
There's a limit to like how much that should restrict them within society in terms of what they can say.
Is it weird that like punching down is funnier for me?
Like it's just funnier.
It's like meaner.
Maybe because it's more shocking and like taboo and unless it's more of an emotional response.
And if you can break that tension, that builds higher tension.
So if you can break it with something funny, it makes it that much funnier.
Yeah.
Like punching up is kind of easier.
So you're supposed to laugh at it.
We hate it.
That's why I'll sit here and defend straight white dudes.
Cause right now y'all got it.
Y'all got it.
It's so easy.
Everybody just claps.
And I fucking hate how easy that is.
So give me the hard thing.
Let's make fun of it.
Oh, you're saying like, if, what's that?
Let's make fun of Apple.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just seems way more risky.
Yeah.
You know, especially in this environment.
Like, maybe there was a time.
Yeah, like if, yeah.
I loved hating white guys my whole life.
That's all I did is hate white guys.
You remember when we met?
I hated white guys.
It was so fun.
That was so hack.
Yeah.
You're so hack if you hate white guys.
Yeah.
Move on.
It's just the easiest thing to get a clap from the audience.
Yeah.
It is.
But I mean, if the joke is good, write the joke.
Like, I'm not angry.
There's a good joke.
Ray jokes are great jokes.
Great jokes are great jokes.
But it does feel like this term, you can't punch down.
I mean, I don't know, man.
I think punching down is the funniest fucking thing, dude.
Because it's the riskiest, like you said.
Yeah, maybe I just like that.
It's also subverting the expectation.
So much of comedy is subversion.
And if you're believing that like you can only go one way with something, once you bring up a topic, you kind of know the direction you're going to go.
Yeah.
Bring up like, you know, some disenfranchised minority group and you know that the confines are that we have to punch up, then you know, oh, this isn't going to be a joke about them.
It's going to be a joke about the power structure against them.
Whereas there's no necessarily like infrastructure for what the punching up or punching down or punching across is like, oh, this could go anywhere.
And then that raises the tension, thus making the joke funnier, I think.
I think that we should, I think punching down is back, dude.
I think punching down is back.
The weird thing with punching down is that it like sort of, it kind of doesn't contextualize like power in like across like other countries, but it also like doesn't acknowledge power in like the way that they interlink with each other.
Are you talking about intersectionality of punching?
Kind of, yeah.
Whoa.
Like break it down.
Where it's like, I don't know.
I was thinking about this the other day where people say like, oh, like you can't joke.
Like basically you create like a hierarchy of where the punches are.
Yes.
So like there's supremacy built in into who you're allowed to make fun of.
Yeah, and it's inverted.
But that's what Akash is saying.
It's just like, it's white supremacists to not think you could make fun of minorities because you're basically going, I'm better than all of you.
Yeah, I gotta be like, I'm too good to make fun of them.
What have they been through so much?
They're not capable of handling this.
Yeah, it's like adding weight classes to races.
We're the heavyweights.
We can only punch up again.
A kid with a disability is allowed to make fun of a gay guy and a gay guy is allowed to make fun of a black guy.
Right.
Unless like the black guy has a lot of money and then that's punching up again.
And so like there's intersections where like you can be disenfranchised, but then have other things that enfranchise you that then bring you out of this hierarchical system of punching up or down.
And there's no real outset for what the rules are.
If you're a black billionaire, who can you make fun of?
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
And it's a simple thing.
Like does billionaire take you out of your position of oppressed minority because you're black?
Or do you get to maintain all the different people that you're allowed to make fun of because you're you're black, even though you're a billionaire?
I mean, this is the conversation about like Will Smith, this conversation about, you know, LeBron James.
It's like, at a certain point in time, you also have privilege, right?
Because you're so wealthy.
Maybe not them because they came from different, but they're kids.
LeBron James Jr.
But even them.
That's privilege for sure.
Well, I mean, now they're in a privileged position, but like Jaden Smith was born into privilege.
You were born to be a multi-millionaire celebrity family.
I don't care.
That's just a privilege.
You can find the race, whatever.
You have it better than a white kid in a trailer park.
And if you disagree with that, I don't know what to tell you.
Right, 100%.
But I guess all I'm saying is like you can switch your privilege within your life.
Right.
Okay.
Okay.
I see what you're saying.
But I completely agree with what you're saying right there, which is like, yeah, you were born into this privilege and that privilege still exists regardless of what your race is.
Right.
Right.
And there's going to be situations that Jaden's in that, you know, the average white kid like him are not going to be in.
But Jaden might be more privileged than that average poor white kid.
But LeBron, who came from no privilege and then has an incredible amount of privilege right now.
I mean, you know, if you call yourself king, like, life is pretty good.
Yeah.
Right.
You don't call yourself king because of how horrible your life is.
Right.
Right.
So does he have to acknowledge his privilege?
Does he have to check his privilege before he gives opinions about the world?
Yeah.
Absolute in that regard.
But like, should anyone in America be allowed to make fun of anyone not in America or anyone in a developing country?
Exactly.
So if we are, if we're the heavyweights when it comes to countries, who can we make fun of?
Can we make fun of Sweden?
Can we make fun of Norway?
Or are we punching down?
Well, those would probably be equal, but like, could we make fun of them?
But why are they?
Why?
Why?
Why are they equal?
Because they're developed nations.
Yeah.
But who decides that?
Like, can we make fun of Canada?
They can't even get vaccines.
Are we punching down?
Yeah, that's the thing is.
And I think.
Can Canada make fun of us?
Sorry to interrupt.
But can Canada make fun of us when it comes to healthcare shit prior to all this vaccine?
We don't have healthcare.
Are you punching down?
That's right.
Are you teasing us?
Yeah.
I think anybody can talk about anyone as long as you use nuance and take like a chance of trying to empathize with that group of people.
I love that.
That's the discerning fact.
We can acknowledge white privilege exists.
Yeah.
But that doesn't mean white people can't say anything.
So, yeah, so exactly.
Stay with nuance.
So, like, a lot of times, I think we try to like create these blanket rules because it comforts us.
Don't punch down.
There's just a blanket room with everything.
It's easy, simple.
If everybody abides by it, then my life will be more comfortable.
For example, we have these like little lanes on a highway.
We maybe don't need lanes on highway.
If you ever drive in Egypt, whatever, I don't know why you would, but I went to Egypt.
There's no fucking lanes.
And if they are lanes, like nobody really abides, but there's not that many accidents, at least what I saw.
It's no different, not crazy than Miami, where we are right now.
But the lanes just make everything comfortable for everybody.
If I stay in this lane and everybody stays in their lane, then we'll be good.
People like that.
My life won't be hurt.
The structure helps people.
It makes people feel comfortable, right?
So the don't punch down thing is a nice structure, right?
It makes people feel comfortable.
My feelings won't get hurt because motherfuckers know not to punch down.
And I won't hurt feelings because I know all I got to do is punch up and everything's fine.
Everything's cool.
But what I think that we've learned is that if you actually know something about a culture, right?
I mean, this has been really helpful for me in my career, is if you know something about a culture and the person that you're making fun of feels like you're not just doing a hack joke about them, but actually like you've taken a second and kind of learned a little bit about them.
They're cool and comfortable with that and they almost appreciate it more.
Yeah.
They're like, you're not doing this surface level joke.
Matter of fact, you've gone beyond the surface.
You care to like learn a little something about me.
And I didn't expect that of you.
And it reveals intentionality.
My intention is not to make you feel bad.
Like if a black guy makes people make a joke about black people, they know the intention is not to disparage black people because you're a part of the group.
But if you're a white guy making a joke about black people, he's like, okay, which side are you on?
Are you with us?
Are you against us?
But if I show that I know something about your culture that maybe you didn't expect me to know, now you know my intentions are pretty good.
Right.
Yeah.
For the most part.
I'm sure we can find circumstances.
Yeah, of course.
But generally speaking, it makes us feel better about your intention.
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Netflix Specials and Paywalls00:11:47
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Now, let's get back to this exclusive Patreon clip.
Real quick to go back to what the Joe point is, something you said about like, can we punch down against Canada?
Because they don't have access to the vaccines.
Where does it end?
I think that was Joe's main point.
I think that's what he was trying to say about the left: the cancel culture never really ends because there's always somebody you can be like, oh, I'm punching down.
And that's his point.
We're going to paint ourselves into a real fucking corner with punching down.
I think he said it poorly.
I also think if you talk for 15 hours a week into a fucking microphone, you're going to say.
You're going to say some things poorly.
And maybe that's something we empathize with more than most people because we talk for five hours a week and shit comes out poorly every single hour.
And that's a great point.
And that goes right back into what we're saying about the clickbait culture is that there are people waiting for him to say something poorly because they know how many fucking views it's going to get.
They know how many clicks the article is going to get.
They know that it's going to sell those fucking ads.
So they are just waiting.
15 hours a week.
I'm going to listen to a whole shit.
You're going to say something that's going to make a good article.
100%.
And to those people, I say you have never, if you talk for an hour a week, you would say shit every hour.
They'd be like, what the fuck did I say?
That came out wrong.
That's just that's we're all human beings.
None of us are perfect.
And that's kind of to Joe's point again if we're painting ourselves into this culture where we all have to be perfect all the time and none of us are.
To air is human, to forgive is divine.
You can try being divine.
But that's the thing.
That's where I think cancel culture will end.
Like, like to Joe's point, he says, like, it won't ever end.
And granted, I didn't ever grow up in a time where there didn't exist.
So like, I don't really have a metric.
Like, we were even talking about this in the context of what he was talking about, watching Superbad and being like, whoa, like, I can't believe these jokes flew even 15 years ago.
So, like, I just watched Superbad recently for the first time.
And I was like, I can't believe this was like fine.
So, who directed Superbad?
Judd Appetal?
Was it Abatao?
No.
It was just Seth Rogan.
I don't remember.
I know Seth Rogan wrote it, right?
Yeah.
Jonah Hill was in it.
But I don't know actually who directed it.
40 year old version was Judd Appetow.
There's an entire with him and Paul, I think him and Paul Rudd just saying for four minutes, Seth Rogan and Paul Rudd, I think it is going, you know, I know you're gay.
And then they just make fun of each other with that for like four minutes in the movie.
Which is hysterical.
It's a hysterical scene.
Now they get canceled.
That whole movie's tanking because that one scene.
But it was just crazy to watch Superbad with the context of like, and again, I thought it was funny, but watching it and being like, I can't believe that this was the number one movie.
Yeah.
And people still today go, oh, that's the best, you know, teen movie of all time.
And I think to Akash's point, which is like, these things can exist at this time and we can celebrate them.
And then people can evolve, right?
Yes.
I think the biggest issue we have is, you know, a guy like Judd Appetow, who's who's been very critical of certain things being made fun of or certain viewpoints, et cetera.
It's like you evolved.
You got to give these other people the exact same room to evolve as well.
Yeah.
If bare minimum, you got to give them the room to evolve because it took you time.
That's bare minimum.
Yeah.
Right.
They might not, but you got to give them the room because you expect people to give you the room.
You're not canceling you.
Yeah.
To me, it's an empathy thing.
Have a little bit.
I don't even mind if you criticize someone.
If you've done something bad, you grow.
Like if someone's like in a gang, they got out of the gang, they grew and they go, yo, the gang shit is fucked up, even though they made a ton of money while they were in the gang.
Yeah.
It's not that they're criticizing it or trying to change it.
It's that they might not, if they don't have empathy, that's where it's fucked up.
Yeah.
Man, what are you guys doing?
You guys are idiots for making these jokes.
You guys are the worst.
Yeah.
You guys are canceled.
If it's coming from a place of empathy where they go, look, like, I've been here.
Like, I remember when I was young and in comedy and I did some dumb shit.
You got to grow from it.
Like, that's a different thing than if it's just outright trying to cancel people doing the same mistakes you made.
And maybe that's to Mars' point of why cancel culture will end.
And maybe it's a better way for Joe to say when will it end?
I don't understand.
I tend to think that it will once it becomes like endemic.
When every single person on the internet has a footprint that they're not happy about and they're not proud of, then people will be much more mutually assured to structure.
I think people will just be quicker to recognize their own frailty and they'll go, oh, like, yeah, like this guy's getting canceled for this, but like I did that before and I'm not going to put a ton of fire on it.
The left and the right are Russia and America in the 60s.
It's just like we all got nukes a point.
What are we going to do?
So I think it'll hit a time and a threshold when people realize like, yeah, we've all fucked up.
We've all done dumb shit.
What was like, and I think that people will be generally more nuanced.
And I think this is an overcorrection from an era when like you could literally say anything and it was just crazy.
Yeah.
To now people overcorrecting and now it's like you're getting canceled for one tweet that you posted a while back.
And I think it will kind of level out as things go forward and people recognize like the nuance and the intentionality.
I don't see it ever, Gameslick.
I think people are just getting more adjusted to the times where it's like, all right, let me not put this out there because I know this would get me canceled.
Like, we still have these thoughts in our head, but it's like we're just doing a better job of trying not to get canceled.
And so we're basically just being bigger front.
Which also bothers me.
Yeah, that bothers me about the cancel culture.
We don't change our thoughts.
We just change our words.
Yeah.
I think that it might be a mixture of both.
But I understand the point Mark is trying to say.
I don't know if it ever just completely goes away.
I usually think that like finances dictate these things.
So I think what's happening right now is that for lack of a better word, like cancel culture is forcing people to go independent in order to continue to create the art that they want to create.
Right.
Right.
We're a perfect example of that.
Right.
You create that independence, that insulation, and then all of a sudden, all the value will be with the creators that are independent and all the eyeballs will be with those creators.
And then the only way to have access to that for the big corporations is if they do deals with those independent creators.
Netflix special, perfect example.
We do the exact Netflix special we want to make.
Right.
That could never have been done five years ago.
The first time we're doing a Netflix special, whatever the fuck we want to do.
Yeah.
I would say on some level, like they're very few, outside of like the Chappelles and stuff, that's very rare.
But we cultivated something so that that could happen.
I think that will be the end, if you will, of cancel culture.
It's create an audience, have autonomy, have all the leverage in the world to do your thing.
And then you can partner with these corporations and the corporations will go, well, I need to pay the bills and I need to make money.
And the way we do that is with these independent guys who have this massive audience.
And then there won't be any value to the scrutiny because the second you get scrutinized, you get canceled.
You go, well, I just won't work with that company anymore.
Like, I'll be honest, you know, actually, no, I'm not going to say that just yet.
But I think that is, I think that is the trajectory.
Yeah.
And I think also entertainment is getting so splintered that we can all just kind of go to the guys we like.
So the far left can find the guys that don't offend them.
The far right can find the guys that don't offend them.
The rest of us who are just looking for humor can find it wherever we want to find it.
Yeah.
And you know what?
And sorry to cut you, but you know what ends up happening?
The only time you hear the pushback is when a watering hole streaming platform or watering hole television show unites them.
So for example, like the far left guys or the far right guys, they have their own audiences.
They live in their ecosystems.
They don't touch anybody else.
The only time it's really an issue is when one of those guys comes to Netflix or comes to HBO.
How are you platforming this person?
How are you doing?
That's the only reason, right?
That's the only time the bloggers and shit like that are talking all this stuff.
When they're existing within their own little ecosystems, nobody's blogging about Steven Crowder, how fucked up he is.
Maybe they are, but it's just not.
I disagree because it's like there's everybody has their own side.
So like what's going on with Joe right now.
Yeah.
Hey, if I want some clicks, let me just go see what he's doing over there.
I think his platform is behind a paywall.
Let me clarify what I was saying.
You don't have people pushing back against Steven Crowder as much because he's existing in his ecosystem, right?
In the same and excuse me.
And the same thing on some like super left leaning one.
What was that podcast that the Obama writer did?
I don't remember.
Cod Save America.
Cod Save America or something like that.
Basically, those people existing in their ecosystem and they have their people that support what they do, right?
But I guarantee if Crowder did a special for Netflix, you'd have all these left-wing people going, how the fuck could you put him on your, on your, do you know what this guy has said, blah, blah, blah.
And I guarantee if the extreme left podcast or show did a Netflix special, you'd have all these people on the right going, how the fuck could you platform these communists?
What the hell are you doing?
Etc.
It's only when they come to the watering hole where both sides got to unite to watch fucking Game of Thrones or Shadow and Bone or whatever thing.
Both of us are now in this same place where we have to go, oh my God, why are you putting this stuff in front of me?
And I think to his point, like Rogan being on Spotify is the watering hole.
And like he didn't get any flack or any heat prior to being on Spotify, but now that he's in the central two.
No, when he was on YouTube, he got a lot, but also he was just the biggest.
But now that he's platformed by like a major corporation, now you can hold the platform responsible.
Right.
Exactly.
And because remember, you can't put heat to someone who owns their shit.
It's somebody who's like, how, Schultz, how dare you put yourself on your YouTube channel?
Right.
I'm like, yeah, the audacity.
Right.
But if you go Spotify, how dare you?
Yeah.
Now, Spotify got to worry about all their other businesses, all their other relationships.
Oh, shit.
Do I want these people who are listening to music, which is 90% of our business, 95%?
Do I want them to stop listening to us?
Oh, fuck.
Now I got to make a decision.
Is it worth all this scrutiny?
Yep.
And I can empathize with them too.
Like, as a business grows, you get less attached to the people you work with.
Like, I don't know if I should talk about this, but you have, like, you have a company that does ads for podcasts, right?
You bring on podcasts right now that you like.
As it continues to grow, what God willing it does, I'm trying to look for, hey, you get this guy, this guy, this guy.
You're just going to get less attached to each person that adds to it.
So 100 podcasts down the line, God willing, somebody might say something that's crazy, and you don't know that guy.
If 85 South says something that's crazy, calls him my guy.
I'm not getting rid of Carlos.
Fuck you.
But 100, when you're Spotify size, I don't know this guy.
Get rid of him.
What do I care?
Yeah.
You can figure it out.
He's causing too many problems.
He's causing problems in my life.
I don't even know this motherfucker.
Get him out.
I'm going to bet for my guys that I started with.
After that, hey, man, you were here as a business transaction and it was great while it lasted.
And now it's not worth the headache.
Tony Hinchcliffe.
WME dropped something.
You probably didn't even see the video of the full set.
Didn't even understand what the context TMZ did a story and they're like, we have to separate ourselves from this because we're a publicly traded company.
And it is an issue.
Like, that's a real issue with being part of WME right now.
You have to understand, like, they're concerned about their stock price.
Yeah.
And if you could affect their stock price negatively, snip, snip.
And as a creator, as someone who would consider signing with WME, you have to take that very seriously.
Yeah.
Now, before they were public, they'd probably snip your ass if you were bad for what the company looked like in general.
So I don't know, it might not change it.
No, it shifts it.
Now it's magnified.
Stock price is volatile shit, bro.
If you're going to drop my stock $20, get the fuck out.
I don't need a thousand investors calling me going fucking nuts.
I just don't need it.
Get out.
You're one motherfucker.
Be out.
That's a real, it's just really interesting.
Yeah, it's really interesting.
You got to make that consideration when you're choosing an agency right now, especially if you think that you have a voice that could be volatile and you have a voice that could shake shit up.
And yeah, that's something to consider.
Fighting Stock Price Volatility00:01:00
Yeah.
So any like concluding thoughts on the Rogan situation?
He's the best.
No, again, I fuck the rest.
Yeah, I don't think he said it well.
I also, again, empathize with not saying shit well when you do a podcast.
We do half the episodes he does.
The episodes are shorter.
And every week I walk out of here being like, ah, that didn't come out right.
So I 100% empathize.
And I think also the cancel culture, to your point, they should be, people who are supportive of it should be mindful of the fact that at some point, if you're not perfect, it's going to come for you.
Chrissy Teigen, Judd Appatell, these are people that Chrissy Teigen came for, Judd Appetale could easily come for.
100%.
And if you've been supportive of this, they're going to enjoy taking you out even more because then the right will be like, yo, fuck, fighting for cancel culture.
This guy fought against us.
Take that motherfucker down.
Yeah.
Let's go.
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