Dr. Jordan Shallow joins hosts Al and Mark to dissect the science of building muscle, contrasting professional athlete programming with the unpredictable demands of comedy routines. They analyze specific injuries like Achilles tendonitis caused by neurological proprioceptor damage, explaining how deep pressure reroutes pain signals. The conversation details performance-enhancing substances ranging from testosterone and HGH to peptides like BPC 157, weighing their regenerative benefits against risks like diabetes or gynecomastia. Ultimately, the episode highlights that true athleticism relies on managing stress variables and neural efficiency rather than just rigid training or financial investments in supplements. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Dr Jordan And Spanish Tortillas00:03:41
Why can't we just take steroids?
Your genetic makeup, that's a bullet in the chamber, but your training pulls the trigger.
And the shit hit my chest mad hard.
Boom.
And I got to here and I stopped and I just started going, take off the little circle.
This is why he wasn't allowed to bed for us.
That's right.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to Flagrant 2.
We are here with our boy, Dr. Jordan Shallows.
It was just one of them.
Yeah, it's just one.
At least you didn't hit it with real hard.
Oh, I thought it was shallows.
No, it's shallow.
No, it's been shallow.
Been shallow the whole time.
I thought it was shallows.
I've let you skate on it for like two and a half, almost three months.
I'm like, nah, certainly.
Well, now you tell me on the podcast I've been talking about.
I'm saving for this.
This is like retrofit.
Every single week I bring you up, Dr. Jordan Shallows.
Yeah, no, I let you skate.
Is it shallow?
Just one.
Oh, you got to add the S, dude.
That's the thing you got to add the S. Shallows.
You pluralize most names.
Yes.
I grew up with blacks.
Or black.
I grew up with blacks.
Yeah, yeah.
No, that's a Mexican thing, too.
Or no, Mexicans don't pluralize.
Dude, I like Spanish people will not pluralize certain words.
They should be plural.
Oh, God, I'm trying to think.
Al, help me out.
You're kind of Spanish.
Not Spanish or no.
What is it?
You're not Spanish enough to know.
Fucking A.
It will come to me, but I do believe that.
Tive Tortilla?
No, no.
Tive Tortillas?
Type Tortillas.
No, because that's an actual Spanish word, so they would say it right.
Jessica Mean.
It doesn't matter.
We're here with Dr. Jordan Shallows.
I'm going to say Shallows.
I got to change my Instagram now.
It's so much thicker like this.
Okay.
First of all, just to give everybody a little bit of an understanding of what's going on here.
Jordan has been working us out.
At least myself, Akash, and Mark, Alex got a workout in yesterday.
Okay.
For free, mind you.
Yes.
I don't know why you've been doing this.
You're a professional.
You work with like major athletes.
You're the head fucking doctor or whatever at the Brandon Marshalls Company.
What is it called?
AJA, House of Athletes.
House of Athletes.
There's no reason why you should be so generous to us.
So before we move on, what is the rub?
It's just, it's just because it's a hilarious contrast for me.
Yeah.
Like work with you and then drive up and go work with like a $25 million guy.
Now, why?
Yeah, he didn't even make it.
He didn't even athlete.
You don't have to say that they're more successful in every aspect of their life.
I don't know.
I mean, so for me, it's just like, it's kind of proof of concept.
It's like, if you can tune a Ferrari, you can change the oil on a Civic.
Yo, this is, this guy is mad.
You're calling those Civics?
Right.
Yeah, yeah, that's.
You're calling those athletes Civics, bro.
That's fucked up.
No, it's just, it's fun to me.
Because it's more fun to me to work with you guys than it is to work with them.
Why?
Because we listen.
Yeah, part of it.
There's less consequence of the objective outcome, right?
Like there's less weight and gravity carried to it.
Like you miss a rap, it's not a big deal.
If you, for the record, if you can't, if you're listening to this podcast, Jordan does not look like the guy who would say there's less consequence of an objective outcome or whatever the fuck sentence he just said.
Yeah, yeah.
This guy looks like he should be on a dock.
Yeah, yeah, With Bruce Springsteen singing around you.
Yeah, you're way too smart for how you look.
Wow.
That shallows thing, right?
That's good.
That's great.
It's fun to do this.
It's really fun to do to be condescending, but serious.
Okay.
But seriously, you look dumb, but you're so smart.
It's the bait and switch.
It is the bait.
Because that's the thing.
I don't have to be that smart.
Yes.
Why You Look Like That00:14:16
Like a couple, three, four-syllable words with a knuckle tattoo.
I'm sweet.
And also when you start talking about like ligaments and shit, like doctors are really there on point because they know if they just name it, son, something difficult, we're just going to trust whatever they have to say.
Where you describe something and he goes, yeah, it's your prefrontal cord.
Tiberius is not connected to your Euphrates and you take it's too much.
And then, and then I'm like, all right, just how do we fix it?
What do we do?
Yeah, no, it's fun.
I like it.
You're like, what?
Well, because there's like we were talking, Al and I were talking about this last night, right?
He's like, just give us a steroid.
Borderline.
That's a fucking steroid.
That's a mark.
Oh, Mark's on the juice.
Is Mark on the juice?
Every single, no, but like he wants it so bad.
He wants it so bad.
He just wants the result.
He just wants the result.
You want to get out of your own head.
That's it.
That's all you want.
He hates my workout.
Dude, I would never do this.
He hates my workouts.
He goes, It's painful for me to even put these together.
Is that true?
Dude, when you did their spot at the improv like a couple weeks ago and you brought up Barry's boot camp, I just rushed the stage.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
What is it like?
Barry's boot camp.
Because like the first couple workouts.
Hey, bro, Barry out here killing it, dog.
Barry got no social distancing in his boot camps.
Do your thing.
Do your thing, but I remember that.
No masks, no social distancing.
Unlike where you work out, you said I have to wear two masks every time I went down.
I literally pulled it up on the pod.
No, no, no, no.
Your gym is Canada, bro.
You're Canadian.
You're like, we have to be careful about our neighbors.
You can literally pull it up hard.
Our neighbors might be sick and they might have old people.
We have to take care of our neighbors.
You were doing that.
I literally remember you going, yo, we went to this gym and the dude was like, we got to the door.
He's like, yo, I have to wear a mask.
And I'm like, yeah, no.
I'll find it.
You've done this multiple times.
You always look at me and when we're about to make a decision, you go, what would Ottawa do?
That's what you always say.
That's what you always say.
That's the capital.
I'm going to be paying for the shallows.
He's gone.
He's in.
We're all in.
Okay.
So, so that is true.
I like a workout that gets me out of my head.
Right.
As long as I'm more or less slim, as long as I can look like I may have abs and clothes, even if I don't have them, that's all I care about.
What does that mean out of your head?
Like, you know, I'm thinking about things too much.
So I like going to the point of survival.
The only thing he wants to worry about is consuming oxygen.
That's it.
Like, he literally just wants to go until he lays on the floor.
Yeah.
Like, after every exercise, pretty much, I lay on the floor for a little.
Especially when we go on the bike.
Do you guys even do the bike?
The bike is so fucking hard, dog.
I hate the bike.
It's brutal.
I hate the bike.
What does he do for you on the bike?
I just warm up on it and I hate it.
I hate it.
I'm right.
Oh, you don't do the 30-30?
No, we've done intervals a few times, but you know what?
I hate it.
That's his whole workout: is that three, four drills together in succession, like minutes with a bunch of bitches over here.
You only see the chicks on the bike.
He makes me push the sled thing.
I hate that.
Oh, I love the sled.
Yeah, you like the sled?
Yo, because my whole life, I've just been a bitch.
So if I'm pushing a sled, I'm like, I feel like I'm doing something.
Can I ask you a serious question?
I mean, this sincerely, because he always makes fun of you.
Yeah, you are.
He always makes fun of me for this.
Is the floor a little bit lopsided?
Because this way is easy and this way is hard.
I have noticed.
I think it's crooked.
Yeah.
I don't think so.
And there's a gravitational thing.
I think there's a gravitational thing.
The first round is easy.
The first way down, when you go towards the boxing, no.
I don't get tired.
I don't get tired.
But have you noticed that with bench pressing too?
That the way down is easy and then back up is harder.
Nothing's hard for me.
Also, he doesn't let me bench press.
I'm not allowed to bench press.
Sometimes I'll do that.
Sometimes I'll do the hexagon thing.
The hexagon thing.
Yeah, yeah.
The hexagon squat or a deadlift or something.
Chop bar dead.
Chop bar dead.
Trap bar deadlift.
Trap bar dead though.
Yeah, chop bars trap house.
I'll do that.
Okay, let's just get to the bottom because we're competitive guys on this podcast.
Right.
Okay.
So, first of all, I work out to get out of my head.
Right.
Mark works out for results.
Steroids.
Steroids.
He just wants results.
Whatever the quickest way to results is.
Akash.
Why does he work out?
Akash works out.
I do.
I know.
Because it's the contrast, right?
Like, yes.
The way you approach comedy is so like, it seems like really analytical.
Yeah.
Right?
Like when you're doing the Netflix, you go always doing like 100 hours a week, and it's like practice the way you walk out on stage and like you're constantly just polishing.
He's taking notes for you at shows, yeah.
And it's like your whole life is just like in your own head.
So you're like, all right, I'm going to take this hour to get out of my own head because the rest of your life, you're in your own head.
He's in his own head the most when he's doing comedy.
Like he, he, like, if he's up on stage, like, he'll get worried when he's dual podcast, he'll get worried.
So if he can get like more, basically, he just wants to be able to fuck people up or not get fucked up.
So it's like, if he can get build strength in the gym, like, he likes to know all the details.
We stop with details like day two.
Yeah.
Once your girl stopped coming, she was like, oh, this is great.
You could learn some stuff.
And you're like, yeah, this is great.
I'm like, this guy doesn't want to learn shit.
He just wants to move.
That was the whole thing.
But like, Akash is like, okay, I want to.
But I want to do it right.
Yeah, yeah.
But you can just tell me how to do it right.
Right.
How do you fuck up the bike?
Huh?
How do you fuck up the bike?
I'll find a way.
With him, it's like he wants to know if shit pops off on stage.
Yeah.
That like he's 5% less in my head.
Every percent less in my head I am on stage.
So, aren't you learning how to fight?
I'm going to need to get a manly, like an actual man level of strength.
Yeah.
And then from there, we'll learn how to fight.
So that is how I'm so weak that I feel like even if the in jujitsu they're like, you flip like this, I'd be like, and you don't think that we should teach him actually some fighting moves?
I think he's on the right track.
I think let's build up the muscles of strength first.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because, and this is the thing with jiu-jitsu.
Yeah.
He's always like the 135-pound guy that's like, I don't care how big you are.
It's like, yeah, you will.
Yeah.
You definitely will when I grab the bathrobe and you realize you're fucked.
So it's like, I can't, you can't have that for him.
So it's like, all right, let's get it so that when you do go into that, you're that you're packing some heat.
Okay.
And then Mark.
Mark just wants the outcome.
Outcome.
And then what about Alex?
Alex, we kind of did like a drink from a fire hose thing where we're like, all right, this is one session.
Let's just throw.
Is that what you called it?
That's the first time.
He drinks from your fire hose out.
We get done this.
I'm on this goddamn maradime bike for the last three months.
We did like we did like a probably the deepest thought because it was one session.
I was like, all right, yo, it was late last night.
I'm going to try and give you as much like tangible takeaway shit.
Where it's like, you guys, like, all right, we've been working together for months.
Okay.
So let's like slow drip.
Because you think you, the upper dorsum is ubulous Frades shit that you were talking about.
Yeah.
You thought that was a lot?
Yeah.
I went.
I went like I gave you about 50%.
Yeah.
And it was like.
So basically he's saying like I'm way more advanced than you guys.
It's big.
He is more advanced.
Yeah.
No, he's got good.
Yeah.
He's like, he watched YouTube videos of how to work out and all that kind of shit.
Yeah.
So like I could hit him.
Every step with every set with him, we layered on something else and layered on something else and layered on something else.
Where it's like with you guys, we slow drifted.
Like we're like, all right, next week we're going to do this.
Like, yo, next set.
He's complimenting you.
One comment.
You also changed it and trained in a different gym, which is like a little bit the set and it was a gay gym, right?
Yeah.
You went to Barry's boot camp, too.
Yeah, you guys went to Barry's house.
I was a fire host.
I did tell you at Barry's boot camp one time, bro.
No, I did an F45 class once.
A what?
F-45?
Oh, that's super gay, dude.
Yeah, my buddy owns the company.
Oh, your buddy's a big old sorry, sorry, sorry.
Is he big?
You could take him.
You could throw hands.
I could throw hands with him.
Yeah, he's a rugby player, though.
I don't know.
Ah, they're good at tackling.
Yeah.
That's what you're built like.
You're built like a rugby player.
Thank you.
He lived in Australia for a lot of years.
That makes sense.
That's right.
You got married in Australia?
Yeah.
And divorced in Australia?
I don't know where it was when I got divorced.
Why?
Why?
Yeah.
Work.
Really?
She couldn't put up with that?
I mean, I'm on the road, right?
I was on the road up until being this in Florida.
This is the longest I've been in one place in the last like four years.
Really?
Prior to this trip, the longest I was in a single city for was like 11 days for three years.
Okay.
Yeah.
Jordan, can you give us a little background on you?
Like, were you a professional bodybuilder?
No.
You were just a guy who lifted.
I was a powerlifter, eh?
You're a professional powerlifter?
Well, as much as people make money powerlifting, it's not really a profession.
It's not on my LinkedIn profile or anything like that.
Gotcha.
So here's the thing.
And it's always at airport security for whatever reason.
They're the most inquisitive people in the world.
And the seven-second interaction while they're grabbing your dick where you're like kind of spread out and it's like, it's the same thing.
It's my left shoulder and right hip every single time I go through that thing.
And they're like, oh, like, what do you do?
And like, I kind of know what they mean.
They're not asking about like my vocation or my job.
So it's like, why are you built like that?
But yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'm like, oh, no, like I compete in powerlifting.
And they always do like the bodybuilding stuff or they do like the Olympic lifting.
Is that this one?
Yeah.
Is it this one?
It's like, yeah.
I'm out of your life in three seconds.
If you let me go and not go to secondary, sure, it's that one.
Yeah.
So yeah, I was in competitive powerlifting for like five or six years.
Okay.
And then, yeah, I mean, backstory on the career.
I went to chiropractic college in California.
I started as a corporate chiropractor at Apple, opened a practice in Mountain View, started competitive powerlifting, and then was a strength coach at Stanford for three, four years.
Now, have you ever worked on Tim Cook's back since he probably gets it blown out?
I can neither confirm nor deny.
Oh, really?
He's an NDA.
HIPPA.
So like health information.
He doesn't have an NDA.
You know what NDA stands for?
Yes.
No dicks allowed.
He's never signed one of those in his life.
What do you have to treat more with a guy like Tim Cook?
A guy like Tim Cook?
Like the back or the throat?
Ever sore?
Like, you know, that's a lot.
Like, you know that Floyd Mayweather shit where he puts the weight on his head and he got to do that?
Does Tim Cook have to do that?
He wants to work on, he's just laying off the side of the ring.
Fucking weights off his skull.
Let's go, Tim.
Let's go.
You don't think he's going to be great at that?
You don't just become mediocre at certain things if you're great at running the company, you know?
You're going to run the company and have trash booty hole.
I've never thought about it.
Just think about that.
Do I have to?
I'm just, yes.
I bet he, yeah, because you know, they say about like super powerful women who want to get dominated.
So a guy like Tim probably wants that.
He wants to get fucked, right?
He's a super powerful guy.
People always ask him questions.
But he wasn't always powerful.
I think he was always pretty powerful.
Yeah, I guess you're right.
You're right.
You're right.
He might not have been Steve Jobs, but now it's a lot of responsibility.
Yeah.
Listen.
We don't want to get too distracted here.
Right.
Okay.
So you're working at Apple, you're doing all these things.
And then eventually you realize, I'm good at lifting shit.
I'm going to kind of compete in this.
Yeah.
But they're not guys that do this professionally.
I mean, with like supplement sponsors and stuff, you can make like a half decent living.
Really, really, really good, but it's nothing.
It's nothing.
And powerlifting is squat.
That's it.
Bench, deadlift.
Oh, bench as well.
Yeah, all three.
So you take the best of like, you all show up on the day, you weigh in separate weight classes.
Yeah.
You kind of go like, all right, who can like you get three attempts at each lift?
Yeah.
And then you take your best completed attempt at each lift and you add it together and you get your total.
And then you stack it up against the other guys in your weight class and the best total wins.
What percentage of the people are on steroids?
It depends on the federation.
Okay.
Depends on, yeah, it depends on the federation.
Depends on the meat.
Some are, it's always hard, right?
There's difference, like any sport, like drug tested isn't drug-free.
Right?
Like UFC is drug tested, but like we know UFC, right?
Oh, really?
Okay, explain that.
Well, you can test all you want, but it doesn't mean that people aren't getting by the test.
How would people get around the tests?
We had this conversation at the gym.
Yeah, I mean, there's a few, depends on like the overarching governing body that's going to be testing.
Yeah.
Some people kind of know when they're going to be tested.
That's a big one.
And then how can you get it out of your system?
It depends on the compounds you take and how long those compounds stay in your system.
Right.
So it's like if you take some, if you know you're not going to get like drug tests in the offseason, you're going to get a bit of an edge.
Fighters do this with camps, right?
Like a fighter's going into a camp, they're not going to get tested outside of camp.
The rumor was, and I don't want to put any shade on the great one's name, but the rumor was there were certain fighters that wouldn't announce their fight until five weeks out, even though their camps were usually between eight and 10 weeks.
And that's so that they could cycle from week 10 to week five, cycle meaning take steroids.
And the only time the commission was able to test you was once the fight was signed.
Right.
Because they can't go to your gym if you're not contractually obligated to anything.
Like, why would you be even testing?
And that's the difference between like an organization like the UFC and the Olympics.
Like the Olympics has this.
Oh, shit.
I think UFC announces their fights pretty late too.
Well, yeah.
I mean, look at the guys.
They're juiced to the gills.
I remember what was his name?
Obream.
Oh, yeah.
Like Obream.
You don't need to bring in the golden snitch.
It's like, I could have called that from like the other side of the way.
It's like, yo, that guy.
Are you serious?
Like, come on.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I mean, the UFC is a little bit different.
But I think if all sports started to adopt like an Olympic style, we're like, you ought to list your whereabouts.
Like, I have friends that are going to compete in Tokyo with Fernando Reyes, a big dude at the gym.
Yeah.
Yeah.
At Hybrid.
Yeah.
I'll fuck him up.
Yeah, right.
Good luck.
Whereabouts?
So like they will show up.
I'll slap him right in his mouth.
Like if he goes, if he flies to Britain.
Go lift that shit, bitch.
That's what I said.
He walks in the gym.
I'm going to go, yo, yo, go lift that shit up, yo.
Put some of them circles on a bar and lift it up, son.
Circles almost.
What are they?
Whatever.
You know what I mean?
You guys see a picture of this guy.
He looks like the fucking mountain on Game of Thrones.
Legit.
Who?
This guy.
That's what he looks like to you?
Yeah.
What's he look like to you, Cersei?
That motherfucker looks like Cersei.
Shame when he walks through the fucking gym.
Shame if you don't lift that, Fernando.
You know nothing about no real workouts.
Yeah, we're not dropping this episode until we out of Miami.
HGH For Recovery Or Leaner00:07:32
Yeah, not just that.
He's a few blocks away from us.
But I think like, and here's the thing: UFC doesn't want, I don't think UFC wants drugs out of it.
No, because they look so much better.
Right.
It was the same with CrossFit.
Yeah.
Don't look like Tyson Fury.
Do you know Tyson Fury, the boxer?
Yeah.
Humpty Dumpty, bro.
Yeah, not a good look.
He literally just like an egg, bro.
He falls down.
He cracks.
That's crazy.
True, he's in Miami right now.
Yeah, but that's all pro sports.
That's all pro sports.
Yeah.
What do you mean that's all pro sports?
Every pro sport they're using?
To a certain degree, yes.
And it's all now doubt.
Performance-enhancing drugs.
We're going to get into this.
We're going to get into this because he said something really interesting to me.
He said it's, it would be, don't let me, you know.
Yeah, no, I won't.
Misquote you here, but you said that there's so many different drugs, it'd be almost impossible to test for every single drug.
So what they do is test for the thing that removes that from your system.
And that's where they usually pop you in UFC.
I don't know specifically about UFC.
There's some, there's a narrow funnel of drugs that most people are kind of blind to.
And like, I'm not a biochemist by any stretch of the imagination, but you'll notice that it's like similar compounds when you read reports when they release them.
It's like, oh, why are these guys always getting popped?
But the wantingness to cheat will always supersede the wantingness to catch someone cheating.
Yeah.
They're always going to be on the leading edge.
So you have an incredible amount of performance-enhancing drug use in all sports because everybody's going to look for an advantage.
Right.
Right.
I mean, shit.
I'm a 37-year-old dude.
I want to take, I've asked you specifically this question.
Like, what if we just take like a small amount of steroids?
He said the funniest shit to me.
What did I say?
He goes, bro, we should all just get on steroids.
And I was like, why?
He's like, ah, see, for me, I don't want to get like jacked.
You know, I just, I just need it for recovery.
Yeah.
Recovering from what?
Recovering from what, bro?
You don't see me laying on the floor after we work out?
No.
You need to work out.
You've never laid on the floor before.
This guy's at 9 a.m.
He needs to recover.
I'd be laying on the floor at Berry's, bro.
I don't give a fuck.
After Berry's, I just lay right on the treadmill.
I put my towel down on the stop treadmill and I lay on that bitch.
Well, do you know why?
You know what you're lifting?
What is that?
You know what I mean?
But yeah, man, for real.
Nah, but one thing.
Oh, sorry.
You got to go.
So one thing I inquired about was HGH because isn't that more for recovery?
I want that too.
That I would have to do.
I want HGH.
I want testosterone.
I can just get up the next day and work out again.
When I was 5'3, maybe I need to be 5'10 right now.
Can I tell you something?
Can I tell you something?
You know Sam?
Who?
Jim Norin and Sam?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jim and Sam?
Sam took HGH as a kid because he had some weird thing where he wasn't going to grow.
And now he became a normal-sized adult.
Yeah.
Where the fuck was that for me?
You could have taken it as a kid.
They do do this, right?
They give it to kids who are undersized, and it makes them fucking regular size.
Your parents worked at GNC.
They should know.
Son, they had access to it.
They didn't try to put any pills in your fucking head.
It's never too late, Pinocchio.
Yo, for real.
You fucking be a ball.
Dude, that is actually, yeah, that's bad parenting.
Yeah, Mike, he saw my green eyes.
He's like, fuck this little motherfucker.
You got to be tall, bitch.
Trying to sabotage you, bro.
Yeah, saboteur.
Okay, so why can't we just take a little bit of Reuts, a little bit of HGH?
What are the issues here?
I mean, just limited.
Healthwise.
Healthwise.
What do I have to look for?
Again, like, not a biochemist by trader vote.
Hey, guys, Dr. Shallis is not a biochemist.
By any stretch of the imagination.
Now, say the shit.
Yeah, so like, let's tell us what the fuck is going on.
You feel human growth hormone because I think that's the one that gets the most.
GH.
That's what we kind of sound like.
We call it GH.
When I'm slapping around Raymond in the gym, I'm like, yo, you need to take a little more GH.
I want to mess that up.
You don't want to be ejecting heroin.
I'm nothing.
So like, yeah, so HGH, G-H.
Produce it naturally.
Heroin growth hormone would be sick.
You know, the superpowers you would have?
The guy's a heroin doesn't kill and they carry in fridges around their neighborhood.
Like that guy.
You're just throwing up this huge pencil and just falling asleep.
I got insomnia.
This is perfect for me.
Oh, come on.
And heroin's exactly what I need.
Yeah.
So GH.
GH.
Which is HGH for you fucking dorks.
Right.
So HGH.
The way I be sunning people in the gym, bro, when I walk into that gym, the way I sun people, do I not?
You do.
Sometimes they'd be looking on, they'll lift on the hexagon bar.
What is that shit called again?
Trap bar.
Trap bar.
And I literally just lift it over them like a skirt.
I lift that shit up like a skirt.
That's mine.
And I'll take it and I'll start lifting.
Do we not do that?
He does every week.
Yeah, we do.
I've seen it.
100%.
This shit happens, bro.
I put Raymond, what's his name?
The guy I beat up on?
Fernando.
I put Fernando on the bike the other day, bro.
I didn't tell you that.
I said, get your ass on a bike, Fernando, with your fat, flabby ass.
And this guy.
This guy, he actually gave me a little pushback.
Yeah, he should.
What do you mean he should?
He's 200 kilos and he's going to get, he's going to meddle.
Don't kilos.
Don't.
Don't kilos off.
Cut this gay shit out of here, bro.
What is this?
Kilos?
What is that?
The rest of the world.
How many liters of water do you have?
How many centimeters tall is he, Jordan?
Cut this shit out, Jordan.
This is America, dude.
Come on.
Yeah, can we be American about this?
How many guns tall was it, bro?
Okay.
So HGH.
Yeah, HGH.
So there's obviously cost benefit.
So one of the long-term issues with growth hormone is that it's going to decrease a process in your body called glycolysis, which breaks down carbohydrates.
Okay.
Right.
So it'll increase a process called lipolysis, which increases the breakdown of fat.
So in the short term, it's like, oh, yeah, great.
It makes me leaner because it helps promote lipolysis, this breakdown of fat.
Yep.
But long term, if you like, we know we diagnose people who have a hard time breaking down carbohydrates, right?
That's what diabetes is to a certain degree.
Oh, glucose management.
So if you kind of have issues long term with glucose management, that could kind of trigger that.
So decreasing glycolysis is no bueno.
So if your initial thought process was, I'm going to take HGH to get leaner or recover quotes.
You see, I don't know.
There's a lot more to recovery than you think.
And really, recovery starts with.
Is there, though?
Like, just recover.
Right.
Just sit there.
You know what I'm saying?
Just sit around, recover.
Put the GH in me.
Right.
You know what I mean?
But there's a lot of stuff.
I put my feet up on Fernando's back because he's the fucking ottoman in my house.
When I get back from a long day at work, I go like this: sit right there, Fernando.
And I put on the TV.
Oh, shit.
I always feel bad for shouting him out now.
I was like, what's his name now?
Fernando Rams.
I'll be honest, I don't know who we're talking about right now.
I have no clue, but I love you, Fernando.
R-E-I-S.
But yeah, so that's kind of like a catch-22, right?
Yeah.
Like the Catch-22 is: oh, I'm going to take this to get leaner, recover, but long-term, you're going to run into it.
Like, that's just one of the issues.
And one potential long term is, can you bring him up on the TV just so I can see what I'm?
Yeah, that's what inspired me.
All right.
So one potential long-term effect is diabetes.
Yeah, potentially.
Potentially.
It's not guaranteed, but.
But short term, you're good money.
Well, it also depends on like.
And then you could get thick too if you stop digesting carbohydrates, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So a lot of shit.
The 750 Pound Squat Reality00:09:17
That's Alex Jones.
That's not the Olympics.
That's Alex Jones.
Son, I don't think we've met, bro.
I've seen his motherfucking shit.
I've seen it.
Because I pointed him out and be like, yo, he's going to Tokyo.
He looked like Bam Bam Bigelow.
You don't want that.
No.
Yeah.
And that's the thing.
That's just a picture.
You actually watch him move.
Something that big to move as fast as he moves with the weight that he has.
Probably one of the most powerful human beings on the planet.
Oh, my goodness.
My bad, son.
Jordan said he's going to keep talking as shit now, son.
At least.
Keep talking as shit.
Holy shit.
So you see how many circles he got in at Bar?
A lot of circles.
Stop.
Never.
Put some circles on it.
So I said that once at the gym struggling, bro.
So I was lifting and I asked him to give me a spot and I was trying to get over 200 pounds.
Like, I thought that's my big goal: get over 200 pounds, right?
And I think in order to get over 200 pounds, you have to put, it's 45.
What is it?
45?
45.
45, 45.
The bar is 45, 135.
So you put another 25 on each, and then that is 185.
185.
And then you put two 10s.
Now you're 205.
I put the two 10s.
I picked it up off the thing.
My arms are shaking.
I'm like, fuck, I'm going to just go for it.
You'll do this once in your life.
You get over 200 pounds.
That's the accomplishment.
And I dropped the shit down, and the shit hit my chest mad hard, right?
And I tried to use my chest as a little bounce pad.
Like I was just a boom, and they put, and I went, boom, and I got to here and I stopped and I just started going, take off the little circles.
This is why he wasn't allowed to badge for us.
This right here.
Guy behind me.
I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, right?
I go, take off the little circles.
And he this motherfucker takes off the clamps, bro.
He doesn't even take off the take off the little circles.
Take off the little.
Yeah, you thought you were about to clamp.
So he just takes off the clamp.
Now the weights are shaking like crazy.
What the fuck to do?
So this guy makes me yelling the whole fucking gym.
I go, it's fine.
It's fine.
It's fine.
We put the shit up.
I'm looking at him.
I'm like, man, why didn't you take off the fucking circles?
He goes, what the fuck's a circle?
The plates why would you just answer the spot like that?
Bang!
I didn't want to yell spot.
Yeah, you don't want to be like, guys, I was in survival mode, bro.
It was, I was trying to survive.
I was out of my head.
Oh, son, I was laying.
He makes me get up.
Yeah.
Whenever I'm laying on my floor, my floor.
Such a bad trainer for making me get off the ground.
My floor, you heard that, Fernando?
It's mine.
Yeah, he makes me get the fuck up.
Why do you make me get up, bro?
It's not that hard.
It's hard, dude.
It's not.
Wait, so wait, what is his workout?
You never explained what it was.
Yeah, I mean, we just do like circuit stuff.
I go down 75-degree angle with the sled.
I go back up the 75-degree angle.
He just goes on the bike for a little, pushes the sled.
Like, we'll pair together.
Give a workout.
Just a regular workout for me.
We did some like lateral kettlebell passes, some med ball work, and he's killing the walls, bro.
He's like, tearing some things together, just keeping him moving, keep his heart rate up.
He makes me go on that ski machine.
That shit is super big.
We got to do like calorie ladders or something like that.
So we'll do like 12 reps of lateral kettlebell pass, 12 reps of like rotational med ball throwers, and then 12 calories.
And then what's Akash's?
More strength focus.
So like Akash will usually start with a skill movement, like kind of what we were talking about.
So Akash is tropboard deadlift and squat primarily.
And then like my shit sounds so much better.
Yeah, son.
It sounds so bitch ass.
Your shit sounds like a reindeer, bro.
You're a reindeer.
You're pushing a sled, bro.
You're a reindeer.
The red nose.
The biggest reindeer.
Yo.
Bro, you guys are here working out like a man.
He's doing what's your workouts, bro.
You're skiing and pushing a sled.
It's like it's crazy.
This Canadian's got you on some fucking crazy shit.
Bro.
God damn it.
I got a bitch-ass workout.
It's when I'm in the gym, people fear me.
Like, no, when I'm in the gym, people are like, I think they fear me, bro.
AIDS, you gay mother.
Oh, for real.
Am I the only one that lives like that?
Yo, you think, you know, that girl that's always in the gym with us?
Stephanie, that whoop.
No, it's not Stephanie, the Latin girl or something like that, Brazilian.
Yeah, I know who you're talking about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you think I could outsquat her?
No.
Come on, bro.
Well, so it's a leverage thing, right?
Like, yo, she's, bro.
No, no, no, because she's like, she's 5'2?
Say what?
She's 5'2.
No, it's a leverage thing, right?
I thought that chick was like 5'11, bro.
I'll be honest, I thought she was, you know, the one I'm talking about.
She always comes in half hour after me.
Lazy.
Her and Fernando eating pancakes all morning while your boy getting it in on a Monday.
First one in the gym on a Monday.
It's me and that nerd.
I mean, I can't say that.
Why?
Because he probably watches the show.
Yeah, he's still a nerd.
It's not like he's watching that.
It's got to come from you.
I can see him again.
Can he outsquat him?
Who?
No, that could.
That the nerd can outsquat me, dude.
The nerd can outsquat me.
Yeah, yeah.
But no, I think she could.
Bro, he was saying it's a leverage thing.
Oh, you're so long.
We squatted with you.
But no, like, he's a fucking daddy.
He's a daddy morning.
So an LP show.
But it's like, oh, I think we squatted once.
What?
We've maybe squatted once.
Like some goblet squatship.
I did a squat.
He did.
You want to talk about squats right now?
I can outsquat all you in this movie.
No, you can't.
You can't.
No, okay.
Mark probably out squat you.
I'll squat you.
Akash, I'll squat you.
Right after the show, let's go.
Son, honestly.
Right after the show, I worked out on Monday, so I can't.
But honestly, but honestly, you can't squat shit.
Son, I was squatting more than you when we went to LA.
That's not true.
What are you talking about?
Wait, hold on, Jordan.
How is his legs?
How are his legs?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, so, like, we had like a totally different workout.
Oh, he didn't have you work out legs.
Yeah, no, no, I did.
No, we did.
It was just a totally different approach.
What did you work out to train?
We did walking lunges, leg press, squat extensions, Bulgarian split squats.
Bulgarian split squats?
It's like a rear foot elephant.
No, I never did that shit.
Nowhere close to Bulgaria.
No, but in all seriousness, his legs are pathetic, right?
Like, oftentimes, people have looked at Al like when he was sitting down and then he got up to walk and they're like, you can walk.
Like a lot of people, a lot of people have wondered if that was possible.
Right.
So I'm curious if he could actually lift shit.
Yeah, no, he could hold his own.
Really?
Yeah.
I mean, like, the workout was designed.
Our legs are like a Monsters Inc character.
They're Mr. Incredible or something.
He's been like Mike Wazowski, bro.
For real.
Who's that?
From Monsters Inc., yeah, Mike.
How are you going to?
Son, they got regular people named?
Yeah, bro.
They got Jew monsters.
He got a great.
Yo, hold on.
That's why he said so, so that'd be fucked up if they were all Jewish last night.
What are you trying to say here?
That's a little redundant, ain't it?
That's a little redundant.
Where's Dove to laugh at this so it doesn't seem racist?
That's right.
He's not here.
He went to Israel, bro.
He's fighting.
He joined the forces.
Maybe, bro.
He went there.
Maybe he saw some explosions.
And he's like, look, man, there's going to be some lawsuits with this.
So I'm going to go help out.
I'm going to go help collect.
Jordan, do you think that you're strong enough to unite the Middle East?
No.
That's all I have to ask.
All right.
So Al's a workout.
Al could throw up weight with the legs.
Yeah.
So we kind of got him.
Why is it that his legs are so pathetic looking, but he's strong with them?
Well, we put him in a place where it didn't really matter.
Like we kind of organized it in a way where we met him where it was.
We didn't squat at all.
Yep.
Right.
So it's like.
Oh, wow.
Can he squat 300?
Be honest.
I have no idea.
What?
300?
What?
That's down, bro.
How much is Mark squat?
I've squat 300.
One red, 300, bro.
Fuck.
There's no way.
Mark squats 300 pounds.
I did like 270 two days ago.
I do the 25 dumbbells on each side at Barry's if I'm going under me.
Hold on.
You're squatting 300 pounds.
Come on, bro.
I got it.
You see his motherfucker's legs?
He got it, bro.
That's how he got that fat ass, yo.
How much can you squat?
My best is 750.
That's it.
We're close.
You only squat 750 pounds, bro.
Yeah.
Professionally?
Just 750 pounds, bro.
How much am I pushing on a sled?
I'm pushing damn near a thousand pounds on a sled.
170.
But when he found that.
How much does the sled weigh?
That's not the point.
That's a good point.
Say what?
You're not even pushing your own.
Son, I gotta stop eating because I'm not gonna do any more than 170.
I know that.
It's 170 is the most I push.
How much does a sled weigh?
Probably like 60 pounds.
Oh, yo, yo, yo.
What about the one I'm pushing?
We pushed.
And if you're going uphill actually, that added up.
Yeah, you might as well sit Fernando on that shit.
Athleticism Versus Gym Skills00:15:11
Sometimes I'll say that.
I'll say, yo, Fernando, sit right there.
And I'd be like, no, don't, don't, you sit right on the thing that goes up.
The whole is a circle.
He's like, no, it's going to feel too good.
He's Santa Claus, bro.
You're Rudolph.
Sorry, Fernando.
I would love you, Fernando.
Yo, Fernando, you're the fucking man.
You'll kill me, dog.
What time does he usually come in?
I don't think he'll catch him at 8 a.m.
Say what?
I don't think you'll catch him at 8 a.m.
What is he doing at 8 a.m.?
Probably sleeping.
Probably actually recovering.
What is recovery?
What is this?
So, like, recovery is two things, right?
Like, I think the biggest misunderstood part about there's going to be zero useful information to pull out of this podcast.
There's going to be nothing.
People are going to learn nothing.
Hey, I don't know.
You got to come back from Flagrant You.
No, learn something right now.
He's flagrant too, baby.
He's flagrant too.
I know.
For real.
What's recovery?
Because why my girl takes so long to do that shit after a fight?
What's recovery?
How come you can only know once a week?
What's recovery?
Why does it take so long?
Yo, why?
How we get emotions to recover quicker, huh?
How we do that?
They got some GH for that.
They got some testosterone.
They got some steroids for that.
That shit is.
Every time we in a fight, they recover.
Oh, two days later, the lactic acid pretty built up, ain't it?
Yo, you know where you go for them steroids, Neiman Marcus.
It's facts.
You just need a bag.
You don't need a bag of royalty.
Just need a bag in general.
A purse.
Nice little purse.
Okay.
Recovery.
We're going to get this done.
We're going to get this on.
Recovery.
Yeah.
So I think the biggest misunderstood part about recovery actually starts with your programming.
Okay.
Right.
So it's like, how much are you, how much can you recover from based off of your lifestyle, right?
Like you guys work a nine-to-five, guys work in construction.
They all go in to kind of do the same work.
Okay.
You need to program differently because stress is like an aggregate.
Stress is just stress is stress.
So you got to be able to like curate your exercise selection, your volume, your intensity to whatever other stress you have going on.
Right.
And so like in a professional athlete setting where they can kind of control all their outside stressors for the most part, like you got to be able to program to what they can handle, right?
So all these modalities of like, I'm going to sit in the sauna and all this is like, yeah, but a sauna is not going to outrecover like either under or over prescribing exercise, right?
It's not like I'm going to really bury that, like drop the hammer on a workout and then I'm going to go sit in the sauna that day and I'm going to.
And then you're good.
Yeah, no, that's, that's a bit of a, that's a bit of a myth, right?
So I think the most underutilized recovery tool is actually proper exercise programming, right?
Because you're going to be able to calculate and quantify the stress more accurately that you're putting on your body that you need to recover from.
Everyone's like, I'm going to go in the steam room or I'm going to go in the sauna or I'm going to put these boots that squeeze my legs and whatever.
And it's like, I'm going to do all this stuff.
I'm going to take all this gear.
I'm going to take all these supplements.
And it's like, well, can you actually quantify the stress that you're accumulating in the gym first?
Right.
So it's like most people don't go into the detail of like exercise programming and furthermore, down to the granular detail of exercise execution, which is like, how can I quantify his or quantify his lunges that we were doing yesterday if every rep looked dramatically different?
Right.
So like, how can we first pre-qualify each movement in the workout?
Every one of Alex's reps looked dramatic.
Well, no different than yours.
Like there's a skill to it, right?
But it's like, no, no, no, like we're all on the same level, right?
Like, and we kind of, some of us are better.
But it's like, even me, like, I've been training for 15 years.
Like, this is my whole job is to break down the granular detail.
And I still have to go in and there's moves I have to exercise I have to practice.
So there's a skill to exercise that pre-qualifies quantification.
So everyone's like, I did four by 10 at this.
I went for 200 pound YOLO too many circle PR on bench brad.
I did.
Right.
But it's like you didn't.
And winter, winter solstice.
Right.
That balance off the chest is a different 200 pounds than if you pause on your chest.
Right.
So it's like, I think recovery is like, what are you recovering from?
And that's the biggest thing.
And like, that's, that's kind of the fun thing from pro like you asked me originally, like, hey, why do you train us and then go train NFL player?
Yeah.
Because it's like, they're so much easier to program for.
Yeah.
Because like the rest of, I know what the rest of the day is.
They usually all got Twitch streams.
They sit with their feet up with the Versace slides.
So I can kill them because you know that they're going to relax.
Because I control everything.
Right.
Where it's like he's going to come in.
He'll hit me up at like four in the morning.
Like, dog, I'm still not asleep.
Yeah.
But he'll fucking soldier in two hours later like on no sleep.
He's a dog.
Jesus.
And that for me is like you can program for an athlete, especially on off-season, but you need to like coach guys like you.
So like programming is very binary.
Like exercise programming is very binary.
These guys move really well.
And that's not exclusive for all pro athletes.
But I can kind of write an off-season program and stick more to an off-season program with a pro-athlete because their variables are pretty well controlled.
And maybe they're like, they're in a contract negotiation.
They got to go fly out trial for a team or something.
But other than that, chill it, right?
They make fucking $22 million in 17 weeks.
They're just living off the interest.
But it's like, yo, man, we just got in from Phoenix last night going through it, tired.
So I got to be on the fly.
So it's actually way more difficult in certain ways to like coach someone who has a more dynamic lifestyle.
Where pro-athletes are almost like they're very binary.
They're computerized.
Like they're robots.
They're built or put on this planet to do one thing and catch a football, run with a football, tackle a guy, kick a football.
So it's like I can kind of sit back with like all my other variables controlled and be like, oh, here's the, here's the roadmap.
You know, we got 35 weeks in the offseason.
Here's how we do meso cycles, microcycles, macro cycles.
I can sit there and just kind of beautiful.
It's like doing bits versus doing crowd work.
We're crowd work.
You don't know what the variables are.
You don't know what's going to happen.
You got to read the room.
Figuring out in the moment.
Right.
And then it's like, yeah, I've done this a thousand times.
Here's your program.
So that's like, that's the fun thing for me.
And that's the proof of concept because it's like, once you get to a certain level, like you're not like, if you were just doing Netflix specials and like you were just running, and I'm like, I'm probably going to fuck this analogy up because I don't know your world that well.
But it's like, if you're just running Netflix specials and like everyone loves you and you're not doing, you're not, you're not doing those like Wednesday night improv bits.
You're not sharpening the muscle.
That's what that is for me.
That's what you guys are for me because it's like, I have an intent of the workout.
Like I want to do some lower body skill movement.
I want to train some upper body output.
But someday's upper body output with Akash is going to be dumbbells because he got four and a half hours of sleep.
And for him, that's a lot.
It was like, oh, but today it's like, yo, he's, he's already showing me signs of fatigue early on in the session when we're practicing our skill.
That skill is breaking down.
I gotta, I gotta now change my approach, but still drive the same stimulus.
So rather than like a dumbbell press, like, let's go to something more external.
We were squatting heavy.
I mean, PR.
Yeah, that was even with Alex in real time.
Yeah, big circles, bro.
Big circles.
Who's the best natural athlete of all of us?
Oh, Lesbia.
Oh, so I mean, athleticism, that's a really good question because athleticism.
Wait, real quick to put the recovery question in dummy terms for me.
Right.
The most important part of recovery is working out smarter, essentially.
More smart.
Okay, so I don't like that language.
Because it's like to your nerd point earlier.
Yeah.
It's like there's been a movement for a long time.
And maybe like social media was kind of driving this or like the late night TV Bow Flex fucking whatever, P9DX stuff.
But it's like, it's basically Barry's boot camp in your living room.
Yep.
But it's like the intelligent movement was like this revenge of the nerds and fitness where everyone's like, oh, you got to train smarter, not harder.
It's like, yeah, no, you should probably still be laying on the floor.
Right.
Like, I think when people think about training smart, they get soft, right?
There's a way where it's like, yeah, we can know like the, what do you call it?
The Euphrates or whatever the fuck.
Then there's the Euphrates.
It's your middle name.
You can connect to your upper dorsamis.
Yeah, it's all really complicated.
But it's like you can know that and then still and still go there.
I think when people start to train smart, they just, they just don't go there anymore.
Yeah.
Right.
So it's a, and part of it is like putting people in positions where they can feel safe to go there.
So like we practice skills.
So we did lunges first.
Yeah.
And it's like, that was a skill.
And like we manipulated like his field of vision.
So we blocked him from seeing his foot and we had him focus on seeing his foot.
We tried to play on like these ways to develop athleticism.
And then after that, we're like, yo, let's hunt.
Sit on a leg press, grab the fucking handles, breathe at this point, and just go until you can't go anywhere.
Right.
So it's like, you got to be able to play into that.
So, to your point about athleticism, like who's the best natural athlete, you got to define the word first.
Who's the best soccer player?
We can start there.
Well, and that's so here's my default, right?
Because athleticism is going to favor more than just pure strength, right?
So, I would say the most difficult sport from a coordination standpoint in my basketball.
No, is so I would give it, I would give it to him.
No, let's go, boy.
So, athleticism is like it's, I think you got to try and define athleticism first.
How would you guys define athleticism?
Whatever I'm the best at, right?
Okay, so that'd be like boxing, like you're the best boxer in the room without a doubt.
Yeah, whoa, right, but like there are sub-components to athleticism, like when you have the goat conversation, right?
The greatest athlete of all time.
So, what does athleticism mean?
Right.
So, there's so many sub-components of athleticism.
Like, strength is a part of athleticism: speed, agility, endurance, power.
What about engine?
Engine?
Yeah.
It's like being able to keep going.
Endurance.
That's endurance.
Oh, endurance?
Right.
Engine.
What about hardware?
Who tells you that?
I put some circles on my engine.
I thought they meant like Native American to the basics, bro.
Let me bring it back to the basics.
Yeah.
So, I mean, Akash brings up a point about intangibles.
Yeah.
Right.
But I would say like one of the intangibles is like Indians.
Bro, those are the intangibles, dog.
You can't even touch them both.
We do have intangibles after this.
When you think about it, we do have intangibles.
You don't think about them.
Yeah, there's flavor in Jersey, actually.
Depending.
That's a history.
Depending on what subset of athleticism you value, that's usually how people rank their goat, right?
Like, what do you value speed over power?
Right.
Well, then you say Bolt is the best athlete of all time.
Right.
Like, do you develop coordinates, or do you, do you value coordination above all else?
Right.
Then you might look at some sort of gymnast or something.
Like, do you value endurance?
Then Lance has to enter into the conversation.
Right.
So for me, especially working with primarily pro-NFL or pro-football or NFL guys, I think there's some subsets of athleticism that people miss.
Like rhythm.
Rhythm to me is one of the most important subsets of athleticism.
God damn it.
You're going to have to do it.
Who's the best rhythm here?
Who got the best rhythm?
Be honest.
I haven't read it.
It's not Alfred.
Be honest.
It's not out.
It's not.
Be honest.
So, like, I'm going to give it to you because I've seen you hit the speed bag.
Why?
Uh-uh.
So, I mean, it's cast-dependent, right?
And I don't think you can necessarily cross-pollinate these conversations.
You can't cross-pollinate them.
But there's nothing y'all can do that.
I think it's nothing y'all can do.
I've seen these fucking flippers with like Scuba Steve once.
I'm scuba steve at your service.
Are so dumb.
Wait, what's shoes?
Oh, it's the ones that you got to think about.
It's the red ones.
It's the red ones with the thick souls.
So bad.
What?
You got to get.
I can't wear my pumps to the workouts.
I'm wearing my pumps in a pump, bro.
What does Akash wear?
So we went barefoot yesterday, which was good.
Oh, God.
No.
I was coming back to it.
We did that yesterday.
Akash was in his element right there.
Was he hanging from the bar from his feet on it?
Upside down.
Yeah, so for me, with the population that I work with, primarily, athleticism comes down to rhythm.
Like there's a rhythm to pro football.
And you see it.
Like, you're ever in a college weight room, you're ever with pros, music's blaring.
They're all like dancing in between sets.
And then they'll catch balls in between a dance move.
And it's like, oh, that's something that we don't consider.
That's something we don't consider.
And it's something we should consider, bro.
I've been telling these motherfuckers forever about this shit.
That's one of my biggest criticisms of Fernando.
I look at that motherbag.
Listen, you fat fuck.
Listen here.
Listen here.
Listen.
Listen here.
Listen.
Listen here.
You said you would pay me $250 and make fun of him.
You said you would do this.
Fernando, it's all on him.
It's on him.
I don't even know who you are, but I love you.
But yeah, man, I keep on harping on the fact that it's about rhythm, bro.
And he's got to get his rhythm down.
Al don't have rhythm is Al has a lot of people.
I can't even dance in a fashion video.
That's a great point.
It's embarrassing.
White people dancing.
I can't do that shit.
Oh, but like, now why?
What's between athleticism and what we do and what we do in the gym?
That's very true.
I always say that.
I've heard him say it.
I got it from him.
Yeah.
I say that all the time.
It's a difference between athleticism and what we do in a gym.
Al when you're in a gym, you're in a fucking doghouse.
Okay.
And you need to come bring it, bro.
You need to come bring, come bring some rhythm.
Yeah.
You out here doing lunges like a giraffe.
That's what Jordan Shallows told me.
He said, Al does lunges like a giraffe.
We all started dropping in, and I was had way more rhythm and athleticism than both of you here combined.
Hey, what?
Son, that fucking obstacle.
You got no endurance.
Alright, got no endurance.
You were endurance.
What about your knee?
I don't think you're out of this conversation.
That was what I hit the backflip on.
Mark didn't get included.
Literally mid-Obstacle Course texted Jordan Shallows about his knee because his knee blew out.
Didn't your Achilles go the same time?
No.
That was my fault.
Oh, fuck.
It was my Achilles.
I think I saw it on his brand.
That's my children.
He just barked on Andrew Schultz.
And I was like, I wonder if this guy fan's Achilles.
He fixed Mark's knee.
He fixed Alex's gay.
This guy's gay.
This guy's a magician.
It's still in recovery.
Now, listen, do you breathe?
Come on, Tony.
That's rhythm, son.
Everybody need to relax, Tony.
Do you believe?
Do you believe that chiropractors are real?
What do you mean?
Akash doesn't consider them doctors.
Yeah, and I don't care what you call me.
You call me the fucking janitor, but I know who's going to call me when the seasons come up.
Take that.
Take that.
But yo, like, can I tell you?
I'm not going to crap.
Like, that's what I mean when the seas come.
When the season's coming, like, if guys are making M's, they don't care that I'm a chiropractor.
Chiropractors And Random Marshall00:03:04
They don't care.
Yeah, yeah.
Right?
Clap.
Clap.
Yes.
About the fact they're a chiropractor.
Nobody cares.
Right.
No.
No, that's that's a good point.
This is what Akash values most: being a doctor.
Yeah.
Right.
How does that appreciate that?
We're the same level of doctor right now.
What?
Oh, shit.
Let's go.
I don't care.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I get to do whatever the hell I want.
He gets to do whatever he does.
My biggest thing is like.
You have knucklets?
I do as long as I get Andrew's permission.
Quite frankly, I don't see the difference.
What's the difference?
Yeah, well, it's a weird sound.
Random Marshall for you, Andrew Schultz for me.
It's the same.
Same.
Random Marshall and Andrew are very different.
Okay, let's be clear.
We're very different people, you know.
But you know, some who's not that different.
You know who I'm talking to, motherfucker.
All right.
What's his name again?
Fernando.
You know who I'm talking to, motherfucker.
Hey, hey.
What time is he usually in the gym?
Now I'm coming in.
Probably around now.
Probably around now.
Yeah, midday.
They just do two sessions a day.
Two sessions a day?
Yeah.
Recovery.
I'm coming for you, Fernando.
I'm coming for you.
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Now, let's get back to the episode.
So back to, so being a chiropractor, I believe you're a real doctor.
I don't care.
No, because here's the thing.
Like, I get, do you remember?
Because like Rogan put, like, had this chick on.
She was like a geology professor, didn't know her earhole from Rassel.
And she got on some big fucking on her soapbox on his show and was like talking about chiropractors and stuff.
Like she knew what she was talking about.
But it's like, like, let's go comedians for a second.
Cosby, Louis C.K., Delia.
Am I sitting in a room full of like pedophiles?
Because y'all stand-up comedians.
And like, I'm not going to defend the chiropractors, but it's like at a certain point, like, she doesn't know enough about.
Wired For Proprioception00:15:26
So you're saying there's a few quacks out there, but that I'm saying the profession lends itself to it because it's, you know, it's a, it's an inverted system.
If I get you better, I don't get paid.
And the better I am, the better I can get you quicker, right?
So it's like there, it lends itself to this cycle of like being predatory in the way that the business problem.
Oh, I didn't know that that was the knock on it.
That's one of the knocks.
Oh, I could no clue.
I thought the knock on it was that it's momentary healing.
It functions in a similar way to like a strong pain reliever, where it's like, you're going to readjust these bones in my body.
Right.
And that's going to put less tension on the muscle that's pulled.
But eventually the bones are where they are and they're going to go back.
But in the moment, it is so much fucking relief.
It saved my life.
I had a guy come over and literally like save a week of my life.
I couldn't even move.
I'd slip something in my back or I pulled that muscle.
I always pull.
The guy came over and I was able to fucking walk around.
It was unbelievable.
I know that's not a long-term solution.
Right.
But I thought that was the criticism that it's not long-term solution.
I didn't know they were saying they're actual people trying to like get over.
What do you mean, get over?
Like he didn't know there were actual chiropractors that are just like, I'm not going to fix you.
I'm going to make sure you just keep coming.
Oh, well, I mean, that's they're one and the same, right?
Like it's the same conversation.
It's the same thing.
Because if it's not, if it's not a permanent thing, then there's a, there's a, uh, a codependency or dependency that's created in that relationship, right?
Oh, it's, yeah, like this person would be like, yo, come back like twice a week forever, right?
Because you're going to have this issue.
So I agree that that's a big problem.
And that's why that's why I operate the way I do and focus more on like corrective exercise and exercising correctly.
I was doing a PT for something and there was, they had a PT that was also a chiropractor.
Right.
And basically what they said, it was like full transparency.
They were like, listen, I can do these things and massage you in these certain ways that are going to alleviate pain.
But if we don't do exercises that are going to readjust these muscles and like readjust your posture so it maintains by itself, you're going to be coming here for the rest of your life.
And I was like, oh yeah, that's go.
Right.
Well, there's, there's even.
Am I off on that?
No, it's not, but that chiropractor who's a PT also needs to be either a trainer or a strength coach.
Because it's like, especially for the moment.
You don't know the exercises.
Right.
But it depends on the person.
Between Akash's mom and you, there's two very different nervous systems, right?
There's two very different central nervous systems.
That's really where these adaptations are occurring is at here.
This is where we make the change.
This is where we learn.
Right.
So, if you grew up boxing and you have much more input, you have much more output, then it's like the physical therapy exercise of like, all right, maybe I'm going to crack your back or whatever, and then we're going to do, we're going to grab some yellow band and attach it to the door handle.
And these are the exercises you're going to do.
It's like, yo, you're, you throw hands, man.
Like, you ball like you've been, you've been doing things.
This is not going to register it.
Your nervous system is going to see this and be like, get the fuck out of here, right?
So it's like, this is where even that model falls short, right?
So people like will prefer physical therapists to chiropractors for that reason because chiropractors aren't known for kind of working how I would work and taking it from the table to the barbell.
But it's like, that's really for an athletic population, anyone with any developed training age.
And I would say that's everyone in this room.
That everything else is too remedial.
That corrective exercise stuff, where it's like they give you a band, you tie it to a door handle, they do the rotation-y stuff.
And like, there's an hour's worth of conversation about why those exercises with the bands are nonsense, even for an untrained population.
But like, you need a more specific approach.
Like, your thing is going to be how is it that we can qualify the movements you're doing and pick better movements that are more challenging so that adaptation can actually occur for that long term.
Can you explain something to me?
You did something that was magical, and I truly don't understand it.
And I tried to look it up and I went off of your explanation.
I thought it was really brilliant, but I had that issue with my Achilles because we were backflipping in Columbus because that's how many things there are to do in Columbus.
We were so bored, we were like, should we just learn how to backflip?
Just try to kill ourselves.
Yeah, that might be better.
And I like, I thought I tweaked my Achilles and I was really nervous because I was like, oh, God.
I get nervous about the idea of like doing any long-term recovery yet.
I'm just like, I don't want to tweak it.
So I kind of like laid off of it for a little while.
I first was working out on it.
It would continue getting sore.
And I come in and you ask me a few questions about the Achilles.
It was really sore.
Like it was really bad.
And then you start squeezing around my fucking leg.
Yeah.
You locate that.
It's not really Achilles.
It was Tibialis posterior.
And you keep touching it.
And now it's good.
I don't feel bad at all.
Prior to that, and I haven't changed the way that I've been exercising.
I haven't taken more time off.
You just squeeze my leg and now it's better.
Yeah.
The average person, myself included, doesn't understand what the fuck happened.
Right.
You explained it to me.
Can you explain to people at home what happened?
Right.
All right.
So an injury is applied force greater than tissue tolerance.
That's the applied force.
Greater than tissue tolerance.
Greater than tissue tolerance.
So the tissue can tolerate a certain amount of force, and this is too much force to that tissue.
And that's every injury.
And that's every issue.
Okay.
So.
So, like, imagine like you got stabbed.
Applied force to the knife greater than the tissue tolerance of the skin and the muscle.
Breaks the skin.
Yeah.
Whatever.
Breaks the muscle.
Yeah.
Okay.
So our body, like when we learn biomechanics, if you go down this rabbit hole, oftentimes biomechanics gets taught these things called like free body diagrams.
They're two-dimensional depictions.
You see a little stick figure of the guy squatting and it's like, well, a front squat is more upright because the bar is here and then the knee is this and if your leg is this big, then your torso goes to this angle.
Like that's not actually biomechanics.
That's mechanics, right?
Because that's two-dimensional.
It's a two-dimensional picture.
We're three-dimensional beings.
We're moving through three planes and we also move through a dimension of time.
Yeah.
Biomechanics take into account your nervous system as well.
100%.
So it's like our body, like if you look at how nerves sort of fire and how they're laid out in our body, it's not necessarily these straight lines.
Like classical mechanics is moving between the shortest distance between two points of the straight line.
So we can take these angles and these rulers and draw this and be like, oh, your torque is this or your lever arm or moment arm is this distance and therefore divide by pi and then this is the amount of newton meters of force you have to produce or whatever bullshit is.
And that doesn't, that doesn't come off the whiteboard, right?
That doesn't come onto the gym floor.
That's all purely theoretical two-dimensional mechanics.
Yeah.
Biomechanics is understanding that, okay, our body kind of works like lightning, right?
Where it's like it finds the path of least resistance, right?
These neurological impulses are electrical in nature, right?
Like ionic channels and depolarization, all that shit.
So it's like we need to just figure out why is that we're converging so much force on this tissue that seems to be intolerant to it rather than just trying to strengthen the tissue itself.
A lot of people get injuries.
It's like, oh, my knee hurts.
I have a teleteninitis.
My Achilles hurts.
Maybe I tore it.
Like that was an early concern of yours.
Like maybe I tore my Achilles.
And like, that's a no-joke injury.
Yeah, yeah.
Or anyway.
I had a little tear and I was like, oh my God, isn't it?
You don't want to be big to Achilles are like career enders.
Achilles suck if you don't know what you're doing.
So it's like, well, you just seem to have irritation.
And for some reason, our body is choosing this path of least resistance as applying too much force to that.
So I look at that and go, okay, like if this nervous system kind of works like lightning rather than these straight lines, how is it that we can maybe like diverge some of this force away from the Achilles?
What else is kind of in the region that may be acting like a lightning rod that should be acting like a lightning rod to draw in some of this force that may be kind of decommissioned based off of the way you rolled your ankle trying to backflip in Columbus?
Okay.
Right.
So it's like, I've dealt with enough ankles and feet and not like the way you guys deal with feet, but like I've dealt with enough, which has totally ruined how I look at people now.
Yeah.
So thank you for this.
He gave me like a PhD level dissertation.
I did this when he did an angle in the toes.
And I was just like, I went home and I was just like, looked at tests and like, my girlfriend is gorgeous.
She's amazing.
She's the best.
And I look at her feet and I just literally thought, fuck you, Akos.
We're carried on with my day.
But it's like, so it's what else is in the lower leg that should be accepting this force?
Yeah.
Right.
So tibialis posterior can work in a similar fashion to the gastroc and the soleus, which connect on to the Achilles tendon.
So if we can kind of get this back online, if we can get our body to be like, hey, let's actually start using this tibialis posterior again to do what tibialis posteriors do, we're going to no longer converge all that force into the Achilles, right?
So it's like, I just need to rewire your path of least resistance.
So the analogy I always use, and we were talking about this yesterday, and I think I'll probably explain it to all of you by now, is like motion capture.
The idea of a motion capture system that, you know, whether it's creating NBA 2K10 or whatever, or they have those black suits and little balls on them.
And then it goes to a computer and then we can overlay a skin of the character on top of the movements and make it really realistic.
Our body has that.
Our body has that internally.
Like we have these things called muscle spindles that relay proprioception and allows us in our mind.
So when I can't see where my hand is, I know where my hand is.
Because my central processor, my computer is my brain.
So without visually seeing this, I know where it is.
So when you rolled your ankle, you kind of like took a few of those ping-pong balls and kind of put them offline.
So you're kind of getting this error message as your body starts to try and fill in that image in space.
And that error message is getting perceived.
I roll my ankle and I damage some of those ping pong balls.
Those ping pong balls are the things that accept messages and send messages to the brain.
Right.
Right.
So because they're damaged, they're not accepting or sending any messages.
And therefore, the only ping pong ball that's left, you're saying was like the Achilles one.
Yeah, more or less.
And you're just getting an error message filling in from that expected transmission from the one that's missing.
Ah, and then the error message is pain.
Right.
So we're feeling this pain, but that's just the way that our body says that there is something wrong.
It might not necessarily mean that the region itself that I'm feeling the pain is broken.
It could be something else that's been affected.
Is that what happens?
So, yeah, you heal an injury, but you unlearn pain.
And oftentimes there's a middle ground of this Venn diagram.
Right.
So like low back issues are a really common one.
So like lumbar spine discarniation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And 25% of people that are asymptomatic, that don't have low back pain, have herniated discs on an MRI.
So it's not this N equals one relationship, it's like hernia disc equals pain.
So it's like you've found a way to like out function that damaged structure, right?
So yes, you do need to a certain degree to heal tissues to not feel pain because there is an overlap in like that unlearning versus healing process, that injury versus pain process, but they're not completely superimposed on the same thing.
Okay, so then when you squeeze my leg, not near the Achilles.
No, at the tip post.
At the tip post, you were engaging the ping pong balls again.
Yes, you have a lot of these, right?
Turning back on.
We talked about like proprioceptors being one, and that's stability work.
So whenever we're doing like lunges or things like that in your foots, Al, we were talking about this last night, you know, your foot's trying to like catch your femur, basically like trying to stay athletic.
That's yeah, panic stuff.
Right.
So proprioceptors are one of those ping pong balls.
But we have specific inputs that are for like deep pressure stimuli.
Yeah.
So if I go in and what I did is grab your tip post, it was like, yo, like, oh, shit.
Really hurt.
That's kind of like there's a, there's a nerve ending that acts to feed into this high resolution, hopefully high resolution motion capture within our own brain of where our foot is.
So deep pressure is one, heat is another, vibration is another, like those there a gun, and maybe that's a branded term.
I just want to the jigsaw looking things that are right.
And I'm sure they have them at berries.
They have them like CrossFit gyms.
We got them up at HOA.
And the reason that they're effective is because we actually have nerve endings that are specific to receiving and then sort of engaging this transmission process that's specific to vibration.
So vibration, deep pressure, heat, light touch.
Is that what acupuncture does?
Acupuncture is similar.
Kind of like accidentally, did they fall into success?
Yeah, I don't know much about acupuncture.
But functioning in the same way, right?
Like I'm going to bring a lot of attention to these specific regions and then maybe we'll fire up those receptors that for whatever reason are damaged or not accepting them.
It's the only, I mean, it's not like how necessarily a profession works or a discipline.
It's just how your nervous system works.
Right.
Right.
So everything that we perceive has a transmission and a receiver.
Right.
Right.
That's how it gets to our brain.
So acupuncture is probably just a combination of those things and simultaneously getting these feedbacks or these inputs from these different receptors.
But we have all these different locks that kind of turn the same key.
Right.
So it's like stretching can do it.
Right.
And the tip post is a little bit difficult to get to because of the way like the ankle has to move and the knee has to move to get into a position to actually stretch it.
But like there's a stretch receptor.
So like just a conventional stretch of like taking origin insertion of a muscle and moving it away from one another.
Right.
That's another input that helps us create this hopefully high resolution, very accurate depiction of where we are in space.
So you have different receptors that feedback based off of the stimulus input that they receive, right?
Some are just wired for vibration.
Some are just wired for deep pressure.
Some are just wired for heat.
Some are just wired for, some are just wired for pain.
Some are just wired for proprioception.
Some are wired for deep pressure or sorry, for stretch.
So all of these different things are all ways that we can externally kind of hopefully manipulate strategically to start bringing this back online.
Now, it breaks down one degree further.
And this is where it gets, I think, pretty interesting is that we can base our progressions off the speed in which these things are transmitted.
Right.
So stability, which like this is something that I've probably harped on with all of you at some point in time, like that word, I really mean proprioception.
And proprioception moves faster in your body.
So that muscle spindle reflex, that one particular nerve ending, that pathway from that ping pong ball to the brain moves faster than other pathways, right?
So the deep pressure pathway, the vibration pathway, they move a little bit slower.
Pain actually moves the slowest, six to 30 meters per second.
So, like, a pain transmission that's filling in the gaps for a transmission that's missing from another one of these receptors, these transmitters up into the brain.
Pain moves six to 30 meters per second, which we think, like, all right, bolts running like 15 at max velocity, 30 is pretty fast.
But if you think that proprioception, stability, and like what's called a Golgi tendon organ reflex, like a stretch reflex, so stability drills and stretching, they get transmitted the fastest, upwards of like 120, 130 meters per second.
So, it's like, if I want to beat pain to the brain, this is really what I'm going to do.
So, for me, it's like when we look at mobility drills or we look at trying to fix your ankle, it's like, all right, let's start with some of something that's just a tier faster than pain.
If pain moves six to 30 meters per second, what is the next input that we can not block necessarily, but beat pain with?
Or what's the next thing that we can learn that will then beat pain or just outrun pain to the brain?
And that's some of these, like, well, all I did was just grab your tip post and said, Hey, move your ankle around, right?
And that's deep pressure.
Peptides And Workout Gurus00:15:04
I just took my thumb.
So, why did it fix it?
Because that brought back online the idea that your body can now use the tibialis posterior.
Before it just didn't, well, it just funneled, it just bypassed it, right?
You funneled the force into the Achilles.
So, the Achilles because I literally, just to give context, I didn't do anything on the foot for at least a week and a half, and it did nothing.
It was still painful, it sucked, and you squeezed it, and it was better within a week.
Right?
I don't know how the fuck that happened, but now I'm understanding you just re-engaged something, you woke something up, more or less, yeah.
And like, there's figure the body would know how to do that by itself.
Well, what the body is doing is in itself a self-preservation mechanism.
Ah, it's like that thing is broken, let me not touch that, let me go to the next thing.
I mean, there's like lizards that like lose their tails, and I'm like, oh, fuck it, and they run it.
Have the tail, I'm out.
You can keep a tail rather than you get the rest of me, right?
So, I think it is a self-preservation mechanism, it's a it's an efficiency mechanism, yeah.
But now, all of a sudden, because in a conventional mechanical model, we would look at this two-dimensional picture and be like, oh, we do, we need a certain amount of newton meters force of tissue tolerance at the Achilles.
Yeah, let's do eccentric loading, let's do plyometric, let's do jumping, let's do all this stuff.
Let's just go at it with a steel rod and try and like scrape it a bunch.
It's like the issue isn't the tissue tolerance of the Achilles, the issue is why are we applying so much force to begin with?
Okay, break down the difference between HGH, testosterone, and steroids.
Okay, so those three things can't necessarily be calibrated, they're operating at different scales.
So, like, steroid is just like a designated term to a group of hormones.
We have hormones, Al, have you ever done steroids?
I took testosterone pills back in the day, like Jancy over-the-counter stuff, yeah, yeah.
Shout out Akash.
Hold on, though, and so here's the thing, and there, I don't know if it was still testosterone over the counter, you can just buy back in the day, and like it was called like methylated testosterone, and it was like it was in the little glass cabinets, right?
That stuff, your parents would have given you that, you would have had some issues.
So, you can kind of, it's a wash, they didn't give you HDH, whatever, but they didn't give you that either because that stuff was pretty lethal.
Like, I know guys that had like are on kidney dialysis right now because of the stuff they were buying over-the-counter back then.
Oh, shit, there are like there are people in competitive sports that they were abusing it, they were going super hard.
It's not a those particular compounds were not hard to abuse because they were so potent and so harsh.
Okay, so the vehicle of delivery of like those types of drugs is going to broadly dictate the side effects.
So, most people think that like injectable performance-enhancing drugs are more dangerous, but they're actually more so.
And again, the whole biochemistry thing, they we know you're not a biochemist, we're not holding you to that.
We're asking these questions as a workout guru, yeah.
Which, wow, that's what did you ask me yesterday, why am I not like a TikTok influencer or something like that?
That's a worse accusation.
Workout guru, you're a workout guru, you're a whiz kid, me and go into the workout guru, um, that's what yeah.
So a lot of people are like, oh, well, you inject heroin.
That's bad for you.
Performance answering drug that's obviously bad for you.
And the pills must be a little bit more innocuous.
It must be easier for you.
When actually the way your body has to process and break down these hormones through that vehicle of delivery is usually much harsher, liver, kidneys, right?
So they're fairly liver toxic.
So it's doing damage to a lot more shit than just if you could just.
It's got to go through these things to get in and be like bioactive in the body, right?
So it's kind of your original question.
So with steroids, testosterone, and HGH?
Is there another one?
I mean, there's hundreds of what they call designer drugs.
But is there another umbrella that I'm not knowing about?
Right.
So let's identify the umbrellas first.
Yeah.
So the two ones that I think we've been talking about the most.
So there's steroids and peptides.
Okay.
They're both hormones, right?
So they're steroid hormones and peptide hormones.
And those are different.
Those are different.
They're different primarily in their.
Why do we never hear anybody talk about peptides?
So it's emerging.
It's emerging now from a recovery standpoint, oddly enough.
I mean, the compounds like BPC 157, TB500, GHRP6, all of these things are kind of new.
And they sound like...
Hogan kept saying over and over, and then we went over to Whitney and she was doing it too.
The peptides thing, they would shoot right into their stomach.
Subcutaneous.
So I've done peptides.
So I did BPC 157 and I directly injected that into my tricep tendon.
And I did subcutaneous.
So peptides are like gray area.
Some professional sports have a ban against them.
They're difficult to test for.
But peptides.
So let's go after the umbrellas.
Peptides, yes, there's BPC 157, this TB500, all of this stuff.
But GH and insulin or HGH and insulin are also considered peptide hormones.
They're much more complex and oftentimes just have to be administered through injection because because they are so complex, you can't, as you orally ingest them, you can't really break that down into anything that's bioactive in the body.
Metformin is like a little bit of a different process.
Metformin is like insulin, right?
But it's an oral insulin blood glucose management thing.
So umbrella terms, peptides and then steroids.
Right.
And they're both hormones.
So this category of like steroid hormones, then that's where most of what you hear in the news and performance enhancing drugs is based around.
Much easier to test for.
Way more compounds have been around for longer.
Peptides, really emerging new kind of market, not necessarily in performance enhancement in the way that we think about like Jose Conseco in that era.
Baseball, like Barry Bonds' giant fucking head.
Like new peptides are really more based around recovery of like tendons and adiabascular tissue.
So what makes your head big just to really?
Yeah, so that's an interesting one.
At the HGH?
HGH at high enough dose triggers a compound in your body, if I'm not mistaken, called IgF-1, insulin growth factor one.
That's when HGH starts to help not just put on muscle, which at low dose it doesn't really do that well.
Right.
So HGH isn't necessarily anabolic in one of its primary properties.
Anabolic is like the defining term of growing, right?
Yeah.
Muscle tissue primarily.
But once we get to the level that we have enough GH circulating that it triggers this IGF-1, that I think then starts to stimulate growth of everything.
I got it.
You're the blue guy from X-Men.
Beast?
Yeah.
Oh, it's so funny.
My buddy.
You're a beast.
That's what it is.
So I figured it all.
And then, so what happens?
Or like Hulk.
You're like Bruce Banner, but like when he just goes, I'll just be Hulk the whole time.
Right.
Yeah.
But like you're a nerd, but like you're fucking jacked.
Right.
Yeah.
This is you shouldn't be like this.
I don't hate that.
You're like an astronaut.
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
So just breaking shit in the spaceship.
So, but here's the thing.
We talked about Akash earlier.
I just want to make his head normal sized.
So can we give him HGH?
What can we do?
So this is kind of my own theory about do they give it to kids?
Because when you're growing, you have these things called like growth plates in your long bones.
Oh, that's right.
And sometimes you'd break your friend who like broke their leg and then the growth plate was affected and it wouldn't grow as long.
It's called the Salter Harris fractures.
Salter?
Salter Harris.
And that's when they break the plate and because of the growth plate fracture, their leg or arm or whatever it is doesn't grow.
Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay.
Yeah, so that's like there's gradients of Salter Harris fractures, but that's it.
So as a kid, before those growth plates are closed, if we can introduce HGH, then it can increase once the growth plate's closed, now it's done.
But there are bones in your body that don't have growth plates, right?
Like your long bones, like your tibia and your teeth, your head, your skull.
That's what I'm thinking.
And that could be common knowledge.
I just haven't read too much into it.
But like people who get accused of like just having like the giant dome.
Yeah, like the berry bones.
The berry bonds.
Yeah.
Okay.
So peptides are more used for recovery.
Okay, so this is where it gets tricky.
Yeah, you can.
I know, right?
It's hard.
But this is.
Give us the most like basic.
No, you can't.
You can't.
You can't.
Dude.
Why would Whitney Cummings be doing peptides?
It's not to get jacked.
So she wants to get it.
Probably skin, hair, right?
Nails, things like that.
All of that.
There's like a youth serum in it.
I've always heard that about HGH.
It's good for anti-aging.
Yeah, that's a thing.
Now, I don't know to what degree it's.
Boners, hair.
Like, if we go to HGH, but I heard you get horny more often.
Your hair is thicker.
The hair, I've heard the nails.
I mean, it's all, I guess, which trigger or stimulate like collagen deposition or collagen formation in your body.
So that might be part of it.
A lot of not aging is just, it's not necessarily growth sometimes, but the absence of death.
So if we can stop these cells from breaking down, that might be a fundamental difference.
Yeah, you're going to certain things, like I think, what is it, like collagen just stops reproducing at the same rate?
Yeah.
If you can increase the production or at least maintain the production of it, then you'll deterioration.
Okay, that makes sense.
Okay.
Now, go, go.
So I'm just trying to understand more or less how each one is used.
So, and again, I know these are blanket statements, but like peptides, for example, if a guy just wants to get absolutely fucking shredded ripped, is he on peptides?
So peptides.
So if you want to get shredded ripped, probably like human growth hormone is in the mix at some point.
It doesn't have to be.
So it's a cocktail.
People are using more than one of these.
I would imagine so.
And there's not a specific category for each one.
There is, but it gets complicated because people are crossing both of those umbrella terms.
So give me the most basic, easy-to-understand one, and then we'll build on that.
Like, what is the just, what is the rudimentary?
Hey, you want to gain more muscle?
You just want to do this.
What do you take?
So the simple one about gaining muscle, the process of like becoming quote unquote anabolic, insulin is your most anabolic hormone there is.
So people are just shooting insulin.
Yeah.
I mean, it's not necessarily the safest way to do it.
By orders of magnitude, it's probably the most, if not the most dangerous drug that people take because it's like if your body doesn't have enough available blood glucose to start to store, that insulin still working.
And you actually store a decent amount of blood glucose in your brain.
So this is no different than any diabetic that would go into like some sort of coma, right?
So like a drug.
Give yourself a couple of having insulin.
Absolutely.
Holy shit.
Oh, if you look at the bodybuilding community, that's not a rampant problem because it is usually hopefully approached with those who partake in that with a certain level of trepidation, a certain level of respect, because it can be a catastrophic.
So insulin is its own category.
That's the quickest way to get big.
Very dangerous.
Very dangerous.
Also, a peptide.
It's a peptide?
It's a peptide in its category of its umbrella term.
Yeah.
Gotcha.
Okay.
Peptides, word is still out.
People are starting to dabble in them.
Not people who necessarily want to be jacked, but there are some ways where it could increase.
It's a really new, cool frontier on like regenerative medicine.
It's for regenerative, regen, regenerative.
I can't.
I've heard that about aging is just cell death, and they're getting better at slowing down.
It's like tealing.
That's probably why Whitney would want to do it.
Yes.
Right.
Okay, this makes more sense.
And doing it in, I guess, small enough doses where you're getting that benefit, but it's not affecting these other.
And then give me the worst case scenario with a peptide again because the worst case scenario with insulin is you go into diabetic coma.
Worst case scenario with peptide is.
So, yeah, I mean, peptides seem more towards this recovery anti-aging thing.
We don't really know.
Okay, very, very new frontier stuff.
The guy, William Seeds, Dr. Seeds, is the head of the Peptide Society.
He was said to have cured.
Remember when Brady cut his hand in the Super Bowl, like, I don't know how many years ago?
Okay.
Kind of a low-key thing.
Okay.
And he got a medical exemption to get treated.
And he had like a fairly large laceration in his throwing hand.
I remember.
Oh, yeah.
And I think they used some sort of like electrophoresis with this peptide and got him back like crazy fast.
Like there's been, just to give context, they do rat studies on this compound called BPC 157.
Complete purposeful go in, cut the rat PCL, which is the posterior collateral ligament of your knee is your largest ligament of the knee.
Everyone knows what the ACL because it gets a lot of press.
PCL is way bigger.
They go in and cut it.
They leave one knee untreated.
They treat one knee just with the BPC 157, the calibrate for milligrams per gram of body weight.
Fucking thing grew back.
That's crazy.
The fucking thing grew back.
That's amazing.
That's a great.
It is like, but we don't know overdoing BPC 157.
We don't know what those side effects look like because we're still kind of in this new frontier.
I'm willing to find out.
Right.
Yeah.
That makes it.
You'd be the first stop for trial.
But that rib thing totally blew me away.
I just wanted to get you on a drink.
It still hurts.
What?
I bruised my rib doing what?
Breathing.
Breathing.
No, I don't know.
Getting yelled at.
He had some workout for me that chest supported row.
And he'd preface me with like, yo, I'm going to get hurt.
And I was like, yeah, everyone tells me they're going to get it.
He just had his chest over the end of an inclined chair and he was rowing dumbbells.
We've done this actually.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I know that one.
Yeah, yeah.
Out of commission.
I slipped somehow.
Like bullet from the grassy knoll shit.
Like, I just look back and I was waiting for blood to come out through his fingers.
I was like, yo, you good?
And he was like, he's a soldier.
So he was like, I'm good.
Through it.
First exercise.
Finish the word guy.
God damn.
Didn't miss.
Didn't miss a set.
Okay, exactly like I said I would though.
Insulin peptides, right?
Next one.
Yeah, yeah, they're the same thing, but okay.
Peptide.
Testosterone.
Yeah, steroid hormone.
So testosterone is a steroid.
Right.
And it is just increasing this thing that already exists in your body.
Right.
And the benefit is increase in muscle mass, energy.
So I would break it down in simplest forms.
I would say it increases like muscle protein synthesis.
So you still have to work out in order to get that.
Absolutely.
But you're going to get more return out of that workout than you would get regularly.
So if I do 20 push-ups without test and I do 20 push-ups with testosterone, maybe it feels like I did 40.
I wouldn't go to the bottom.
I don't want to give the exact numbers.
I'm just trying to make this digestible for like.
I think it allows, there's a neurological component to it that goes underlooked, or sorry, overlooked.
So it'll likely allow you to increase your output as well.
Oh, it allows me to do more push-ups.
You can do 40 push-ups because I can now.
I can build money.
And then does it help recover quicker?
That's what muscle protein synthesis is.
Gotcha.
So I can do more because it's giving me more energy and more strength.
It might be like a myelination, like a neurological thing.
So that's the condition.
Kind of.
So now let's subdivide.
This might help.
Yeah.
Let's subdivide.
Real quick, real quick.
So the reason why recovery is important in this is because muscle growth is recovery, right?
We just, for the average person, we tear apart the muscle, more or less, basic terms, tear apart the muscle, it regrows stronger.
Now I have bigger muscles.
Roughly, yeah.
Roughly, right?
So, if we can tear apart the muscle more and it grows back even faster, you're going to get these gains.
Because the most mechanical tension, I think that's how I would be comfortable with that.
Sure.
Highly Androgenic Rage Explained00:04:58
Yeah.
Okay.
So, that's testosterone, HGH.
So, yeah, HGH kind of we kind of discussed earlier.
A peptide hormone falls under peptides with insulin with these new experimental gray area research peptides like BPC and all that stuff.
HGH increases glycolysis, or sorry, decreases glycolysis, decreases your ability to process carbohydrates over time.
Fairly dose-dependent, it seems.
Yep.
So, dose-dependent in the sense that it's like, okay, there's certain thresholds that we've reached at lower doses where physiological processes become more prominent.
Then, as we increase the doses, we actually start to trigger and reach thresholds of other physiological events, right?
So, it's like, you know, if you're taking a lower amount, this is usually probably more of the longevity play.
Like, if you were to go to an anti-aging clinic, all these people go give you a little bit of GH.
A little bit.
Yeah.
And then, as you go into like the professional bodybuilding world, this is when foreheads are growing.
This is when the growth hormone is likely starting to assist in the anabolic process through the mechanism like IGF-1.
This is just my very, very peripheral understanding of this stuff.
Okay.
So, GH, insulin, peptide, all of that.
Now, the interesting thing to think to break down is the steroid category.
As steroids get ranked between what's called an anabolic property and an androgenic property.
Okay.
So, anabolic growth, right?
We kind of talked about that with insulin.
Yeah.
Androgenic is like secondary sex characteristics, primarily.
Androgynous is you can't tell what sex they are.
Right.
So, androgen is like the biggest thing that people, I don't want to say look for, but we may have actually discussed this in the gym one day, is kind of like this is where like the roid rage thing comes in.
There are particular drugs that are more androgenic, and that's going to start to promote more of like that secondary sex characteristic.
So, like, with male, not necessarily more so like aggression.
Oh, that's a female trait?
No, no, no, no.
Androgen, higher androgens would be more, because these are male hormones, right?
These are male pronominars.
I'm just saying, but if you also get titties and you also get smaller balls, and then you're also aggressive, that may be a female.
We're turning away that's correlation, not causation, right?
So, like, highly androgenic, highly androgenic.
I think it's turning us into women.
That's probably environmental plastics and environmental estrogens are probably doing that at scale way more than the use of that.
But I think that the female characteristics that are accompanied with a titanium.
Androgenic, like they're called.
Yeah, the androgenic ones are aggression, being unreasonable, road rage, growing titties, and growing smaller balls.
Women have smaller balls, the smallest balls, none.
Right.
And they also are aggressive and they, you know, road rage and they'll yell for no reason.
Yo, you dig your own grape.
Don't drive.
And titties.
And titties.
Antitties.
It's turning us into a woman.
But it's called androgenic, though.
Androgenic.
Why is it called?
Androgenic.
It's not androgenic.
It's not androgenic.
He just said androgenic.
Unreasonable.
He said androgenic.
No, he said andra.
Androgenic.
Andra.
Andra.
I think the big thing to focus on as far as when we see these drugs deployed in sports is that irritability component, that rage component.
So one of, and I don't want to misquote this, but I've heard in circles.
There's certain boxers who have been known to take highly androgenic drugs that aren't in the moment necessarily going to put on muscle.
Androgenic and anabolic are totally different things.
But if I'm really aggressive, if I'm trying to go into a ring and that guy standing between me and like half the pay-per-view, probably benefit me if I was on some shit.
Take that shit right before the fight and then bite someone's ear off.
That's hypothetical.
What's been said hypothetically, if that has ever happened in history?
Who else will nibble on your ear?
A dog.
A lady.
These guys make it.
I'm just trying to say.
Now, he's as much of a doctor as me and you, right?
If we're actually trying to have a serious argument here about the effects of testosterone, they shrink your balls so you don't even have any more.
You can grow titties and you are irritable and you get in arguments all the time and you yell at people for no reason.
If you're trying to tell me.
You cycle.
Oh my God, you cycle.
Cycling.
Cycling is super, I mean, female.
I think that testosterone turns you into a woman.
I don't understand why it gives you such big muscles because clearly they have none of those.
But how does it turn you into a woman?
So, I mean, there are side effects when your body aromatizes the free testosterone in your body.
Your body, and this is like a neat, not a neat trick, but it's a trick that the universe kind of plays on that.
Like, if you have too much.
The yin and the yang, bro.
Right.
That's it.
There's a balance of homeostasis, right?
It's like kind of like our baseline physiological process.
It's pretty amazing that at 98.7 degrees Fahrenheit, you're chilling your core body temperature.
If you go over 100 degrees, you feel real hot.
Adderall Meth And Safe Ways00:12:32
You're not doing good.
Yeah.
You're at 105, like you're going through it or dead.
Small window.
Real small window.
So it's the same if you start introducing these crazy amounts of hormones in your body, right?
So it's like that aromatization phase is basically like there's a process that goes, oh, you want to play this game.
We're going to totally flip the script on you.
So your body actually converts testosterone to estrogen in the body.
Can I ask you a question?
Because you brought up the plastics.
Right.
Right.
And there's all these plastics.
There's plastics that fish are eating plastics.
And then we're eating the fish.
So we have all this plastic in our body.
And there's a lot of, there's apparently estrogen in the plastic.
Yeah.
Right.
So that that should be feminizing us a little bit more.
Is that the reason for the civil unrest in the country?
You think that is above my pay grade.
I'm just saying.
So we're all eating too much sushi and that's why the world's going to be not sushi.
It could be we're using so much plastic and drinking plastic bottles of water.
We're going to have to take nights and you know, they tend to serve you in plastic.
They serve you in plastic.
The whole country can't get along.
I mean, back when we were a masculine country.
All of a sudden, nobody's rational anymore.
Nobody's willing to listen to reason.
Exactly.
Name a time in the history.
No fucking way.
I'm just saying, you can't name one time in history of America where we were divided beside now.
Not a single time.
Not a single one.
I can't name a single time.
We've always been civil.
But think what it is.
We've always been civil.
Literally civil.
That's how we've treated it.
It's took to drag us into the Civil War.
It was actually freeing black people, and now it's Facebook.
So that's how much less.
It was a big thing.
It was a big thing.
Also, what is cotton made out of?
Plastic?
What?
Cotton is plastic.
Cotton is a plastic.
My computer's dead.
I don't know.
Cotton is a plastic.
Cotton is a natural plastic.
A lot of people have even described it that way.
Abraham Lincoln, he had diaries that he wrote about this is a natural androgen plastic.
Right.
Nailed it.
Nailed it.
He did.
For real.
He did.
I want to still do steroids.
Okay.
Yep, same.
So what are we doing here?
How do we just do the safest amount of steroids?
I don't understand why people won't do it.
Everything else.
We can jump out of a plane.
Or peptide, whatever they fucking.
I'm going to call them all steroids.
Talk about peptides.
PED.
I want to do PEDs.
I just want the safe amount of PEDs.
We can do tons of dangerous things in a safe way.
We can jump out of planes in a safe way.
We can go skiing.
We can drive cars in a safe way.
There's all these different ways to do things safe.
I would like to do this in a very safe way.
What is the little bit amount where I can do it?
I can have vitamin C, all the vitamin C in my pocket.
Unregulated.
Unregulated vitamin C. Look at that.
I mean, blau, Tylenol, blau.
Oh, give me one.
Give me one.
You want one?
I got to get my vax today, so I got to take these.
I got to get my second vax.
I'm allowed to get vaccines if I can't get peptides.
Not controlled by the government.
What is not controlled by the government?
Peptides.
Why does the government not want us to be strong?
Are they worried that we'll take over the fucking capital?
Why don't they give the military steroids?
I don't know if they do, but I know in certain circles they're looking the other way.
But like, why shouldn't he?
They should be giving them every single time.
Yeah, like a chicken on a farm.
Just like I mean, they gave it to Captain America.
That shit worked out, right?
That's getting fucked up.
They're going to be in the army.
They're like, Captain, yo.
Juice, juice, juice.
Put them on the juice.
Okay, so let's say, no, real talk.
Let's stay on the subject here.
Peptides.
Safe amount.
How we do this?
No idea.
No way.
Peptides haven't been around long enough on the podcast.
Right now, I'm taking drugs.
Yeah, so maybe peptides haven't been around to do it.
What do you mean?
Around long enough to do it.
Today I'm going to get a fucking disease injected in my shoulder.
It's been around for one year.
I know enough how to dose it safely.
Just start with a little.
And then just ramp up.
Then we ramp up.
What about collagen peptides?
Is that the same thing?
Collagen peptides, like the stuff you get from Whole Foods and you fix it.
Yeah, no.
That's what girl.
That's yeah.
What does that do that?
That's what does that do?
He's talking apples and kills.
Bro, I've been drinking this.
He's been doing extra minutes.
I've been drinking it.
It makes my hair super strong and stretchy.
Yeah, no.
What about pre-workout and creatine?
What does that do?
What about pre-cum?
Have you ever tried that?
Which one of these should I stop?
It's pure test, right?
That's pure testosterone.
What if we just shoot ropes right into our mouth?
What if we shoot ropes?
Is that why gay dudes are so strong?
Yes, it is.
That's why they're in great shape.
Gay guys are in great shape and sore sluts.
Sluts are in great shape.
They're taking oral and injecting steroids.
Right in their ass.
They prescribe the whole gastro system.
Anti-wasting drugs to AIDS patients.
Wait, what was that about AIDS?
No, no, no.
I'm not talking about other people's cum.
I'm telling you, we shoot it right up the air like a fucking Kim Kardashian paper magazine cover and then we catch it right in our mouths.
It's whatever you do behind closed doors.
I'll do it right now.
Okay?
I don't give a flying fuck.
Don't hog it.
I think to your point, that's probably a better, not a better conversation, but like that's a more readily available performance-enhancing drug that works with minimal side effects.
Yeah.
Creatine has been around for 30 years in research, and that's like.
But that shit don't make you chiseled.
It just gets you kind of like below.
It just fills your shit with water.
We want to look like Brad Pitt.
We don't want to look like the strong man.
We don't want to look like the guy chasing around fucking pop.
Brad Pitt's not banging gear, though.
Oh, get out of here.
He's way too small.
Brad Pitt's doing something.
He was doing some shit.
He's that motherfucker.
Fight club, bro.
Yeah.
Yeah, but no, definitely not.
Fight club.
That was geared.
Once upon a time, man.
He was built like Ben Uyeda, bro.
He was built like Ben Uyeda.
Ben Uyeda's probably on a gear, dude.
Oh, man.
They're on a gear.
No way.
He's on the gear.
He's jacked.
He's just thin.
No, he's on the gear, dude.
I saw him fucking shooting up gear, dude.
I saw him fucking take out of it.
He'd only shot us a fucking picture.
It's like the Mitchell report.
He's naming names here.
He's like Jose Conseco.
He was on HGH, man.
He's on HGH.
He was on an HEH peptide when I saw him, dude.
Yeah.
He was.
And he was super aggro about it, dude.
He was fucking aggro.
That guy does not seem like he's ever been aggravated.
Just wait and see.
Just wait and see, dude.
You heard it here first.
It's the exclusive.
So wait, you say take creatine, get some extra lifts out of your workout, and then creatine.
Caffeine, bro.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
What do you mean about caffeine?
It's a blood.
I think performance-enhancing drugs, when we start to talk sports, the elephant in the room with performance-enhancing drugs.
And this is, I think, inadvertently going to help probably more than any sort of legal illicit drug.
The performance-enhancing drug that I think people need to start talking about in professional sports is Adderall.
Oh, that's five.
It's Concerta.
Like, there's, it's said in the end in the NFL, or sorry, the Major League Baseball.
Wow.
Fucking nice.
Adderall.
That's PD.
That's crazy.
That's what I do.
Played the angle off the screen.
That was incredible.
That's a 9-0, not a 9-11.
What is it?
He's right here.
Oh, come on.
What's wrong?
No, what is it?
A 7-Eleven?
He's right here, dude.
7-10.
7-10, 7-10.
7-10 split.
Oh, God.
Okay, that was a 7-10 split.
Yeah, so I think in professional sports, the thing that people aren't talking about is that.
And Adderall being a...
Well, I mean, it's a performance-enhancing drug, but it's cognitive.
Oh, it's so great.
I love it.
It's, I mean, now you want to talk long-term side effects.
I mean, you are just taking.
I took Adderall the other day and fought with my girl, dude.
We had like a long argument, and I knew it, and she got destroyed, bro.
I was so locked in and focused.
She's trying to come up for her little arguments, and my brain was working a thousand miles per hour, dude.
It was like a beautiful mind.
I was seeing little fucking algorithms and shit pop up in the sides.
It's like, oh, body slam over and over again.
I believe it.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, so there's in Major League Baseball, it's said to be the three A's, alcohol, ambient, and Adderall.
Ambien gets you night night.
Right.
Yeah.
Well, you need to go when you're taking meth.
I gave her some of that the next time we were going to fight, and then that was the best thing I ever did.
He's taking the Adderall.
She takes the ambience.
He's just yelling at her.
Oh, bro.
It's just over, dude.
Yeah.
But that, I think, is where people aren't paying attention to.
And this is almost becoming a sideshow.
Like, I think steroids now, like that steroid categorization of anabolic and androgenic, that's kind of old hat.
I think moving into the peptide route insulin growth hormone, much more difficult to test for.
And now the peptides, we don't really know what they are.
Not necessarily, we don't know what they are, but they're so new that we don't know what to do with them.
And then I think the frontier further more to that is looking more to like the nootropic route, which is like a very generalized, like nutraceutical whole foods term.
Like these are very harsh drugs.
They're stimulants, essentially.
Like they're literally, if you go to prescription in Canada for Adderall, it says on the capsule M and fetamine.
It's like that's what it's a derivative.
I mean, this is where I'm really stretching on my understanding of this stuff, but it is a derivative or very similar to what you would know as meth.
Right.
It's good meth.
But how are those white people so unproductive?
The meth head.
Whatever that switch in that compound is that takes you from Adderall to like smoking out a light bulb.
It's like Hotchkins.
It's glitter.
It's like Hotchkins.
Right.
Yeah.
So that's where I think the performance enhancing world isn't looking.
And that's where I think a lot of the benefit is coming from.
Like if I got to hit home runs and this guy's Randy Johnson's six foot nine, he's throwing 104 off the mound.
It's 60 feet away.
By the time that ball leaves his arm, I got 0.200 of a second to fucking.
That extra focus is huge.
Oh, man.
Absolutely.
That's limitless, bro.
That's, yeah, you literally Bradley Cooper.
I've heard Adderall feels like the limitless drug.
Yeah.
If you've never tried Adderall.
No, I would love it too much.
I would do it once a month and then to the point it's like, this can't be good for me longer.
But I get angry on Adderall.
Yeah.
I see I just.
Aggro.
He gets androgenic.
I get androgenic.
Androgenic.
Yeah.
I get Androgenic.
His balls shrink up when he gets unreasonable, bro.
My balls don't shrink up, actually.
Really?
Yeah, I was looking at my balls.
They get bloated?
No, but like.
No, it's just regular balls.
But my sexual appetite is not very high.
Well, your actual appetite is known to go down.
That also, I have to remind myself to you.
Set timers.
I would do that.
Yeah.
I was taking Adderall to get some work done or something.
Yeah.
Get fucking shredded.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, but then you're headed down the meth, then just take math.
They get shredded.
Yeah, but then your teeth fall out.
Yeah, yeah.
Just give me the Adderall of HTH.
Give me the Adderall of testosterone.
Give me the Adderall.
Give me the safe version of it.
That's it.
That's them.
Oh, so no, I'm good.
I'm not.
What the fuck are we doing?
It only gets more dangerous from there.
Yeah.
Like, testosterone is kind of like this very blanket CNN term, like afternoon special ben afflict kind of raging out.
It's like there are so many more designer.
Like if you just look at any banned substance list, right?
That's a good place to start.
Going to see like so many chemical compound names that you've never seen before.
Yeah, it's like the lay person who doesn't necessarily have to worry about.
And this is something that when you deal with professional athletes, it's like, hey, this supplement company is sending me this pre-workout.
And it's like, you got to get real familiar with a lot of chemical names because there could be something in there that's on the label or more often the case, not on the label.
It's like, you know, you want to make sure that your players are protected.
Yeah.
They can't just be haphazardly going into taking anything because it's like it's not just testosterone.
It's not like the we're coming for your testosterone test.
Like they're working on the stuff.
Like it's the cure for cancer.
Can they test?
Can they test for Adderall?
I don't know because I don't know the half-life of it.
Because I know like there's like short release or extended release versus not, but I don't know if there's any sort of like metabolite or fat storage property to it that would leave it in your system for longer.
Right.
It'd be interesting.
And here's the thing.
At the end of the day.
I think someone got popped and then they said that they were taking Adderall.
So like the Adderall had something else in it or the Adderall elicited some other reaction that they got popped for and they were like, no, I take Adderall.
That's what it is.
Or maybe it was a boner pill.
Wasn't it a boxer that got popped?
And it was like, no, was it Canela?
Something.
I do remember this happening.
Canela and they said it was bad meat or something like that.
Oh, yeah.
The mad meat thing is hilarious.
Like you're not looking at the absolute best meat for the guy who's worth $300 million.
If they, every time an athlete gets popped, they're dead to rights.
But they still go down swinging.
Go down swinging, bro.
That's your worst.
Worse.
Got it.
Worse.
It wasn't me.
The guy was like, oh, it was horse meat.
The other guy at the Olympics was saying, like, oh, no, I drank like eight beers and like had an orgy with like seven broths like the night before.
It's like, no, you didn't.
But that's why my testosterone was so high.
I was laying pipe all night.
It's like, no, it's like there's nothing better than a really bad drug pop excuse.
LeBron's Top Tier Support Staff00:10:58
Yeah.
You mentioned creatine and coffee.
Caffeine.
And caffeine.
Creatine and caffeine.
What's that combination for?
Well, I mean, that's probably if you want to play it, not play it safe, but like play it above the board.
And you want to talk like ergogenic AIDS, like performance-enhancing drugs in the sense that you just want to perform better to delay the onset of fatigue and to have more available energy, more endurance, and more strength in a short period of time.
Those two from research or practical application, taking into consideration the safety and long-term health effects, which are minimal as long as you don't have a pre-existing condition, that's a go-to.
Let's go.
Creatine and coffee.
Caffeine.
Or caffeine.
I do like the inclusion of coffee because there is a difference between natural and synthetic caffeine and half-life, which a lot of people kind of mix up and they think the same thing.
So like if you're doing a caffeine pill, totally, not totally different in its effect and how it is.
But go with the coffee, go with the red.
If you can, yeah.
Keep it organic.
Okay.
Before we let you go, we don't want to take too much of your time, Jordan.
Why is it we've had this conversation at the gym, but I'm always fascinated to hear people say these athletes say that they spend millions of dollars a year on their body.
Okay.
Can you break down the math of how one spends millions of dollars a year on their body?
LeBron, I think, says he spends 1.5.
Yeah.
Can you get me to 1.5?
Not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing.
Yeah.
And honestly, that's part of the conversation.
Right.
Is that they might be getting overcharged for certain things.
Okay.
So break that down.
How are these athletes getting extorted?
What are they doing?
Why does he even spend 1.5?
What is that?
Yes.
I mean, it's hard to argue with LeBron's approach.
Number one.
It works.
It works.
And he is the healthiest tenure starter in pro sports history.
10, 16.
I mean, tenure in the sense that he has tenure.
Like, he'll just be tenure.
Yeah.
Like, he is.
So you spend one and a half, sure.
Right.
He loses one and a half on his couch cushions, right?
Yeah.
People are extorting him and can live a good lifestyle and his massage therapist and all that.
Great.
Dude, more power to you because he's so valuable.
Sure.
There's a risk involved in taking that on.
There's a risk involved in having him.
Because, yo, if he goes down, no, they're not pointing the finger at him.
Yeah.
Who's a strength coach?
Who's a massage therapist?
Who's his acupunctures?
Who's this?
Who's that?
So, like, people are, and he's really spearheaded.
That number is circulated, and he's really spearheaded the initiative and kind of getting these guys thinking now about the investments.
Like, yo, if I spend one and a half a year, what was his contract in LA?
$137 million?
Stupid like that.
Gonna be a billionaire if he's not already.
Right.
So, so it's like if you, if he can pay out 1.2 and then he can extend his career by seven minutes, there's your 1.2.
There's no question whether it makes sense.
What's, I think, a lot of people are curious about is how do you spend 1.2?
Like, just what are the jobs that you're hiring?
Like, I mean, I don't know.
Like, for sure, I know he's got his own personal strength coach.
And what would that go for for a year?
This person travels with you.
Depends, man, depending on what kind of personal relationship he has with them, depending on how long he's been with them.
Like, a lot of these guys, they'll have a dude from high school.
$100,000?
Honestly.
$250,000?
Man, if he's trying to write off shift from his taxes, he'll throw that guy some extra cash, right?
Like, if it's a write-off, it's a business expense.
So there's not a real price.
But it could be anything from low six figures to mid-six figures.
Well, I mean, think what you're asking for this guy to do, right?
Like, travel with you everywhere you go.
Where you go, you're his shadow.
But you're also building his career and you're going to be LeBron's guy.
And the second you come out the other end of it, that's where you're going.
You're writing a book, you're doing whatever you want.
Okay, so you have your strength and condition.
Strength and conditioning coach.
They're going to have some massage therapist is almost a guaranteed.
So just a masseuse.
This guy just massages you, or this girl just massages you.
Okay.
And those times, those ancillary services are usually like on a fly-in basis, I find.
So like strength coaches, especially when you got a guy, like when you're someone's guy, especially at the NBA, where it's like the strength and conditioning culture isn't what it is in the NFL.
Strength and conditioning coach is a position.
That drives culture in NFL.
NFL.
Like that's a position where the teams are going to hire for 17 weeks.
Like for the guys that I work with in the offseason, for most of them, we're just going to exchange hands with the strength coach in that team.
And then for that 17 weeks, they're there.
I'll still consult just because you established kind of a relationship as friends with these guys when you work with them in the offseason.
But so for a masseuse, that's usually a fly-in role.
Like maybe once every two weeks, or hey, I'm going to be close.
I'll fly you in.
So then you got to pick up the expense of like, yo, you're going to pay her probably on a salary when you go, I want you here.
This is the whole concierge market.
I'm paying so that your practice, you have all that shit.
Stops when I need you going.
And they'll schedule it out, but like, yo, I went down in the third quarter.
That bat, that bat phone's going off.
You got to know that your office is closed the next day.
And it's also possible a guy like LeBron could just have a 24-7 masseuse on call.
Sure.
Okay.
His point, like, he's probably not.
But if you know, lesser guys who are trying to emulate this model, I find the massage therapist is usually one that they're sourcing in a city or they got someone they like and they fly in.
How much do you think just Deshaun Watson paid for a massage coach?
Son, if you're paying six figures, I'm getting the ancillary service you're talking about.
He's about to pay a lot, right?
I'll tell you that much.
Okay.
So we've got strength coach, massage, physical therapist or chiropractor, probably another ancillary service.
They probably stick with the team.
Nutritionist is probably going to be where they spend a decent amount of coin.
Personal chef.
Personal chef.
And that's usually going to be one thing.
Okay.
Nutritionist and personal chef, one thing.
Usually.
It can be two and they just coincide as a unit.
Like that's going to be something where they're running blood work.
They're kind of seeing where your deficiencies are.
Oh, shit.
Okay.
Optimization.
We're talking $6 million man here.
$137 million.
Yeah.
So it's like they're going all in, and that becomes a logistical expense.
You need to get his food sourced, cooked, prepped, ready in his face when he's got to be somewhere.
So that's like, those are the big ones that oftentimes that they'll hit.
What about Cairo, physical therapist?
Oftentimes, sourced by the team, depending on what the player's viewpoint is around those services, they might have their own guy.
And I think this is where the tab gets expensive is by having so many people, Somebody cooks in the kitchen.
They don't have crossover.
They don't have crossover.
Whereas, like, somebody hires you, you are strength and conditioning, you are Cairo, Cairo, you are nutritionist for some guys.
Yeah, I'll take over the nutrition as well.
I work with a guy, masseuse.
It kind of falls in the manual therapy.
Stop biting your bottom lip, please.
He kind of gave me like a manual therapy thing, but yeah.
So it's like, and here's the thing, and this is kind of like when I speak with prospective athletes about like working into a season, it's there's you can be 70% like say the say LeBron's guys are 100% the best in the world, the best strength coach, the best Cairo, the best masseuse, the best nutritionist, the best chef, whatever.
But if there's no interconnectivity between these moving parts, if the input doesn't talk to the output, like if I don't know that we're going to have like a purposeful overreach in his training this week, and I'm the chef and he's still getting, I don't know, 3,300 calories, it's like that, those have to match.
You can have the best, you can have, you know, Bobby Flay or whoever the fuck is his chef, and you can have, I don't know, I'm sure his guy is getting yeah, you're not even working out this week, but we're still feeding you like you're working out.
That's a problem, right?
Or no, like we're, you, we're working out crazy and we're feeding you like you're not a bigger problem.
Right.
Either one.
Yeah.
So like inputs and outputs need to be managed.
And this is where like then all of a sudden you can have like you have a data scientist, right?
You could have a data scientist on staff like, hey, we're going to monitor your GPS.
We're going to hook you up while you play, which is a really common practice.
Like how many miles did you run this game?
Right.
What was your if this team stretches out your career one year, right?
You've made a hundred percent return on your investment.
Oh, without a doubt.
Because if you're spending a million a year for 12 years, right?
And you're making 30 million a year or 24 million a year, whatever the fuck he is, and you just get one more 24 million, you've paid everybody and you've made double the money.
But there's a flip side to that.
Okay.
What if you get hurt?
Well, the ID pack is guaranteed in the NBA, though.
So yeah, but this is a really interesting conversation that's really topical right now.
Because are you guys familiar with Jawan James?
No.
Jawan James plays for the Denver Broncos.
Now he's out $10 million because he's tore his Achilles in a non-a non-authorized facility.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Which is, yo, like, you know, that's kind of what I do, right?
Like, I work with guys, and it's like, I don't work for an NFL team.
Yeah.
But I work in the offseason, it's like they're your property of a team.
They have your rights and they can trade you and all that shit, but you're not getting paid.
Yeah.
You get paid once that first, once you flip the coin, now you're starting to get paid.
Yeah.
Right.
So it's like once you report to camp or you go to OTAs, they're going to start throwing you some scratch, but you're, well, that's a you problem.
So it's like you got athletes that are trying to train in the offseason to improve their skill, improve their craft, to buy for a new position, to put up better numbers, to get bigger contract.
They want to have someone, you know, procure this for them and take care of this for them.
They know, like, yo, I'm good at catching the ball.
I'm going to run in the ball.
I'm going to tackle guys.
I'm not a strength and conditioning coach.
I'm going to hire one.
And now all of a sudden you hire this dude and accidents happen.
We know that.
And hopefully it wasn't any sort of malice or ignorance that led to that injury.
But you got a guy right now that's not going to make 10.
There's an internal memo that went out.
I got my hands on it last week through the Players Association warning players, like, look, you're going to assume this risk.
And Juan's probably going to be out $10 million next year because they're not going to pay for him because he was injured and not training in their facility.
They're doing involuntary OTAs or voluntary OTAs, which is like, yeah, that's kind of fucked up because if he just comes back into camp completely out of shape, they're going to be like, yo, you're not in shape.
And we might not even pay.
There might be some contractual obligation for how much you have to weigh when you come to camp.
I know a lot of the bigger guys have that.
Or you might just get cut.
So, okay, if you don't work out in our shit, then you don't work out our shit and you get injured.
We're not going to pay you.
If you come here and you're not on weight, we're not going to pay you.
There's a lot of caveats to not get paid.
And this is where European sports do it, right?
Like soccer primarily.
Yeah.
Like they do, they just own raw material from distributions.
Like, you're some kid from Ivory Coast that shows promise at the age of seven.
It's like, yo, you come with us.
Yeah.
Where those two entities right now are separate.
Like, you know, we have HOA, but HOA isn't a football team.
Yeah.
Right.
But we can take kids from high school and bring them into combine, take them through the combine, through college, into the league.
Yeah.
But it's almost like this changing of hands.
Where in Europe, they're like, no, no, no.
This, you know, this is FC Barcelona.
This is FC Barcelona when you're six.
This is FC Barcelona when you're 20 and you're making, and we, this is our investment.
We're seeding this investment by having, putting you through school.
We have a school here.
Here, go to school.
Also, recess is soccer.
So that's kind of the thing with the states.
And it's, dude, it's no different than what was going on in the UFC.
You guys were talking about this a few weeks ago.
It's like, what do the fighters that fill up the cards that aren't good self-promoters, what is their tax on those who are?
Right.
And it becomes a numbers game.
Epigenetics And The Numbers Game00:03:45
Dude, every owner in the NFL is just playing that numbers game.
It's like because you got these kids going into the draft every year, pushing 40 times lower, pushing 220 benches higher, pushing broad jumps further, verticals higher.
And it's just like, oh, they don't even know, not that they don't know names, and I'm sure some NBA or some NFL owners are super diligent and care.
But at the end of the day, it's like, yeah, you're going to pay.
Yeah, they're making M's, but these guys are billionaires.
This is another guy waiting for Jawan James' job.
And at the end of the day, that piece on the board is filled for that owner.
He don't care, man.
Why would he change it?
Before you leave, who is the greatest athlete you've ever worked with?
I wanted to ask that.
That's me.
Who's the one that like, when you said, whenever we got hard, you're like, we're going to drop the hammer?
Who's the one that like drops the hammer every fucking time?
Don't even have to worry about it.
This guy's a dog.
Yeah.
I mean, it comes down.
It's hard to call because you don't want to pick favorites, right?
Like it would come down to second to Brandon Marshall.
Brandon Marshall, number one.
Right.
So we're going to shout out to the boss.
So there's different categories of athleticism, right?
So it's hard because there's what you see and like what's given to you.
So this idea of epigenetics, I know I'm being super evasive to try and avoid picking just one, but there are some.
Give us your top five.
I'll give you my top five athletes of all time and take the personal away from it.
Okay, good.
Pre-fontaine.
Ooh.
Mid-distance runner.
That's here.
That's the athleticism.
He's, you know what?
He's Akosh to the nth degree.
All heart.
Okay.
This guy's, he's laying out for you.
Akosh is like, he literally, like, I'll hear him say, like, yo, don't be a bitch.
Yeah.
Like to himself.
Does Akash empty the tank the most out of anyone here?
Yeah.
He's got the most approved.
Yo, in my DMs, because we had, we put up a poll.
We went to the people.
Everybody's like, everyone will, and not even that.
People followed up.
Like, IDM's like, yo, Akosh, for sure, he's got more to prove.
Akosh is laying out 100%.
Akosh, Akosh, Akosh.
So it's a little story.
But it's Pre-Fontaine for sure.
Really?
But he never won at the biggest level.
Dude, to, because my biggest thing is like the passion that he pursued that with, right?
Like the best pace is a suicide pace, and today feels like a good day to die.
Yeah, that's fine.
You're running on a, you're doing foot NASCAR.
Like, what are you talking about?
That's amazing.
To be able to be like, yo, you're going to beat me, but you're going to have to bleed to do it.
Yeah.
That's what I'm after.
Do any of these guys train the mental?
Like, do they do meditation and higher specialty?
Oh, that's a huge part of it right now.
One of the big things that health, like at House of Athlete on Wednesdays, no one's really training.
And that's a cool thing that Brandon's done.
So shout out House of Athlete and Brandon Marshall is they do literally do like mental fitness classes where they'll do group sessions.
Like therapy is a big part of what they do.
Sports psychology is huge.
That's massive.
Yeah.
And when you see it, I mean, at the Olympic level, like Norway usually comes in out of the woodwork in the Winter Olympics and just waxes everyone.
They send the most amount of sports psychologists out of any other country, right?
Any other country for any other, whether it's summer or winter, and they're just coming out.
And yeah, that's huge.
The mental aspect is huge, which is for me and why I think pre is my favorite is because that's what I value in athletics.
So when I see someone who's like, yo, I want to take it there.
Like, yeah, that's what I want.
Because there's an epigenetic expression, which like epigenetics is this word that basically means like your genetic makeup, your height, your weight, your propensity to put on muscle, your coordination, all of this.
That's a bullet in the chamber.
But your training pulls the trigger.
Now, there's some people that are all trigger that have no God-given, like mugsy bogues.
It's like, yo, you're 5'6 and he's still getting up.
Armstrong Doping And Mental Strength00:02:59
Like that's what?
5'3.
Was he 5'3?
That's amazing to me because that's like that's a here thing.
Yeah.
But like there's some people, the epigenetic expression of like just their makeup.
Like I would put Christian McCaffrey up there.
Oh, wow.
And here's, and but here's why, right?
So Christian was in my first year at Stanford, Christian was there, and I think it was his draft year.
And Christian, if I'm not mistaken, hit 10 reps on the 225 bench.
Some people value strength as paramount in athleticism.
And they would look at that and be like, yo, you're entering into the league.
You're coming in with a 225 for 10 bench.
And like, there weren't great reps.
Watch that guy on a track.
You watch him bound and doing some single leg work.
He's a fucking gazelle, right?
And his acuity for the game, the ability to navigate these spaces and like avoid, avoid people.
And like, he's just so, so that aspect of athleticism.
So in a lot of ways, like my dad was a beast too.
Yeah.
Crazy.
But that's that's the epigenetic thing, right?
So there's a bullet in that chamber and someone's pulling the trigger.
Okay.
That's the perfect storm.
So those two.
Lance.
Lance.
Pain.
You have any idea how painful what he did is?
Yeah.
Like any idea.
Losing that nut or like well, not even that.
Obviously, that the fact like you, we go on the you guys were bitching about the assault bike earlier.
Yeah.
Five minutes.
Yeah.
This guy is fucking.
Yeah, he has gears.
He also took switch the gear down to make it easier to pedal.
It doesn't matter.
Dude, so here's the thing.
And there's wind.
Cyclists.
Cyclists are like the OG.
Like before, fuck baseball.
Cyclists?
Dude, there was a guy back in like the 80s or 90s.
His name was Bjorn Reese.
He was blood doping so hard that his hematocurt was well over 60.
The equivalent of like having ketchup in your veins.
His blood was so thick to carry so much oxygen to be that much more efficient.
Like to give context, most people, males, hematocrit levels are 48.
So it's essentially your oxygen carrying capacity, the amount of red blood cells you have in your plasma.
So it's like 48% of your blood is for most people, for most males.
Red blood cells that carry oxygen.
So it's like, well, if we had more of those, we could carry more oxygen and we could probably go further.
This guy just doped it and brought it up to 60.
60%.
Which is insane.
And when you're light on blood, what happens?
Are you more irritable?
No, I mean, you're just way less efficient.
If you're inefficient at carrying oxygen, I know exactly where you're going with this.
Like, look at that.
Go ahead, man.
I'm not.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
If you happen to lose blood for five days, we're having a lower hematocrit consequence.
Gotcha.
Just putting that out there, it's not a big deal.
They're the opposite of doping.
Like, if you're on a bike trip and they're losing blood, I mean, this is the, you know, they're bloodletting.
They're letting.
They're letting it.
It's like having leeches.
Lance Armstrong Blood Doping Secrets00:02:59
It is.
Lance Armstrong paint.
They can take pain, though.
Right.
But.
But Lance Armstrong can handle pain.
Okay.
So right now.
Wait, the pain is cycling or the blood doping or both.
The cycling.
The cycling.
Well, if anything, and here's an interesting thing to think about.
First of all, I love this that they're all white guys so far.
This is amazing.
This is the first time.
Going for us as athletes.
There's hope.
I think Tyson's going to be on one of us.
Okay.
Tyson.
Tyson, kind of going back to the mental side.
Yeah.
Like the fact that he could, and I totally believe this, beat his opponent before the bell ever.
Yeah.
And then when he looks across and they break eye contact.
No, maybe here's my Tyson moment.
I forget who he was fighting, but he came up with the hotel towel on.
We cut the hole in the hotel towel.
Do you remember that fact?
Yeah.
That to me, because that's the reduced essence of sport.
Yeah.
And in a sport that is so overrun, especially now with like extravagance.
Logan over the fuck is the other guy.
Yeah.
And then this, yeah, it's getting crazy.
But this is the reduced essence of like, when he had that quote, it's like, I'm going to eat your children.
Yeah.
Remember that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Against Lennox Lewis.
That's amazing.
So who do we got?
We got McCaffrey, Pre, Lance, Tyson.
Got to go Bolt.
Yeah, I think Hussein, man.
So here's Bolt is always an interesting thing to me because he is such a functional anatomy and biomechanical anomaly.
Right.
Because he's so tall and his ability to go just straight rather than side to side.
We were talking about this last night, right?
If you look at the world record sprinters prior to when Bolt came around, and a soft powell is pretty tall as far as sprinters go, he's like 6'3.
But the last 25 world records, 50, 5'11.
Yeah, because it's a good balance of being stable and also having a decent stride length, right?
If I'm shorter, I have less deviation of a center of mass.
I'm super stable, but my stride length might not be that big.
But if I'm super tall, like I'm on Taco Fall, I'm coming in at like 7'5.
Yeah, I'm wobbling all over.
I'm wobbling all over the place, right?
So it's like if performance existed in a vacuum, Taco Fall 100 meters, gold medal all day.
No one in the universe could touch him because he would run it like 14 steps.
Yeah.
Even Bolt at 6'5 runs 41 strides in 100 meters, right?
And most people are running 44, 45.
He's able to maximize that stride like he's not moving side to side, which is a crazy thing.
Most ball guys start to shift laterally as they run, right?
But he can keep it on the track.
And even I think more impressive than his 100-958 is his 219-19, right?
Because he's got to go around that bank track where now that displacement of that center of mass across that greater distance on one leg is much more difficult to withstand.
So when he comes out of that, like that corner, like fucking Palladega Knights, and he just slingshots past everyone, that to me is probably from a pure like force production standpoint.
His ability to create tremendous amounts of ground contact, unparalleled.
I think we'll never see an athlete in that subsection of athleticism.
We'll never see an athlete like him again in our lifetime.
Unboxing Florida And Goodbye00:01:58
Okay.
Well, before you go, we have a little something for you.
Oh, goodness.
Yeah.
How far?
How far?
Okay.
We have a little something for you because we're so grateful that you've been helping us work out and achieve our athletic dreams down here in Miami.
And we know that you're leaving soon.
We're obviously leaving soon.
I hope that's the right thing, to be honest.
We want to get you the right thing.
We're going to start receiving gifts.
Let's see what we got.
We know that.
I'm looking at facial expressions.
We're doing a little unboxing.
Oh, shit.
We're doing a little unboxing here.
Let's see.
Stop it.
Yeah.
Stop it.
Get out of here.
Come on, guys.
Yeah.
Can I be like that 11-year-old kid that unboxes shit on YouTube?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, fuck out.
You got to be like the science teacher that starts crying.
He's a dope.
Sick, right?
You guys know me well.
Thank you.
What size is wifey helped?
Yeah, fake from China, dude.
I get it.
Oh, Tess was in on this.
Yeah, I DM your girl.
This is actually our cash idea, but we're all going to take credit for it.
Yeah, no, I appreciate that.
Thank you.
You're welcome, man.
Now, Jordan, please tell them where they can find you.
Thank you so much for coming on.
We're all very grateful.
Thank you so much for taking us out and just exercising us and helping our mental health as well as our physical health.
So tell them everybody where they can find you, man.
Yeah, Instagram is probably like the best place to find me.
So it's at the underscore muscle, underscore doc, podcasts, iTunes Spotify, RX Radio, RX Apostle V D, Radio, and then the company I own that teaches applied biomechanics and functional anatomy is prescript.com, P-R-E-S-C-R-I-P-T.com.
And H-O-A, of course.
Oh, yeah.
So, yeah, we do, or I'm up at House of Athlete in Weston, usually like one week out of the month.
I'm down here in Florida moving forward.
So I'll be there if you guys ever need anything in person.