Andrew Schulz, Akaash Singh, and Mark Gagnon dissect Donald Trump's potential launch of a new network to replace Fox News, speculating it could force the outlet toward moderation while CNN shifts center-left. They debate his 2024 viability amidst New York tax evasion charges, arguing his wealth might secure a plea deal rather than jail time. Contrasting Trump's base-pandering style with Obama's legislative operator approach, they highlight his lack of crisis governance experience and skepticism regarding executive orders without bipartisan support. Ultimately, the hosts suggest the public craves less polarized information over extreme narratives. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Fox Becomes Reasonable00:08:29
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Here is the exclusive clip.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to Flagrant 2.
It's your boy Schultz.
I'm here with Akash Singh, Alex Media, Mark Gagnon.
And does Trump start a television network when he gets off that presidential throne?
A news network for Trump.
That's what people are saying.
Yeah.
And that he could replace Fox, essentially.
Exactly.
And him, Fox and Trump are beefing around.
Beefing, and he could essentially pull all the most extreme talent off of Fox and have 70 million people chomping at the bits.
There were some, I heard an episode of The Rising where they, I wish I remember the exact percentage, but a majority of Republicans identify with Trump more than they do the Republican Party.
He's bigger than the Republican Party.
Wow.
So if Fox News is a Republican network and you're a Trump guy and they're bashing Trump, fuck you.
It's kind of interesting because Fox has never really had a competition in the TV space.
No.
And I wonder if he gets in the TV space or he keeps it in the internet space.
Like, does he care and need to be on TV if he can be just as effective, if not more, on social?
I think he does.
You think he cares about it for like the austerity that TV brings?
I think like that's just who he is.
Like he's just formed and created in TV.
Like I think it'd be hard for him to imagine not being on TV.
He's just grandfathered into that.
That's why he's like calling into like Fox and Friends.
Like even like a few months ago, he's like phoning in.
He's savvier than, way savvier than the average 70-year-old dude, though.
I mean, this guy understood Twitter and its power well before most people.
I think in his mind, he's like, I'll just do both.
Like, I'll put out everything on YouTube.
Like, I'll make clips.
I'll do whatever.
Yeah.
So what happens to, one, what happens to Republicans?
And two, what happens to Fox?
Like, is there a rift in the Republican Party in the same way that there's a kind of, is it rift is the word I'm looking for?
Is it rift in the Democratic Party?
Like, does he become the AOC Bernie squad for Republicans?
Yeah.
Does he pull people further right?
Yeah.
And then does Fox all of a sudden become reasonable?
Like, do we start watching Fox and going, oh, yeah, this is like a reasonable conservative?
Center right.
Center right take.
And last question, last question, is that the best thing that could happen to information for all of us?
Will that push Fox closer to the center?
Right.
And will CNN, if it chooses to kind of distance itself from like the AOC Bernie squad, also come closer to center?
And now we have news instead of being so fucking polarized on the edges where everybody's rolling our eyes at both of them, all of a sudden they're giving us pretty close to like what it is with just a little bit of flair from conservative or liberal side.
Al, you were saying something?
I think there just needs to be one addition to it because right now on the left side, you have MSNBC, which is AOC Bernie.
Yep.
Then you have CNN, which is Biden Kamala.
You think that CNN is more in line with Biden-Kamal?
You don't think it's a little bit to the left of them?
I would say, yeah.
I would say slightly to the left of them.
Not around that area.
Around that area.
They're just not as extreme as MSNBC.
Gotcha.
And so now if Trump creates the MSNBC version of the right, yes, Fox will be a little bit more to the center, but they're still not going to be center.
Right.
Like there'll need to be a fifth body that is like strictly center.
My prediction for news is that like as and it's no different than political parties, but like as information becomes more and more polarized, like as we look at truth as the right's truth and the left's truth.
Truth we choose.
The truth we choose, and it becomes more and more extreme and it's just like feeding what we want to hear.
I think what happens is information that's on, like tv and even social media, becomes more and more alienating to the majority of people.
That kind of exist in the middle yeah, right.
So the majority of us are just kind of like existing this 80 here, right.
And then these news organizations are targeting the 10 on either side because it's fast money, it gets those clicks and shit, yeah.
But I think what they'll start doing is when you see Rogan, when you see us, when you see Sager, you know, and Crystal, when you see all these like internet entities that are doing bigger numbers than the major news corporations, I think what's going to happen to happen is these news corporations, they don't really care about news.
They care about making money.
You know, some people sell pizza for money, some people sell news.
Yeah.
When they realize there's more money to be made in the middle, where Rogan is, where we are, I think you're going to see them make a shift.
Right now, they don't realize it just yet.
But as soon as people start rejecting the far right and far left information, which I think has already happened, Rogan's got the biggest platform on the planet.
As soon as they really start rejecting it, I think you're going to see news make a serious shift.
And it's going to be hilarious to see all these fucking hacks who have been selling the same fucking lies all of a sudden start to say, you know, we've got to become more center and understand the other side a little bit more.
And we have to be able to talk to each other and stop calling each other names and all that other shit.
I think it's going to be really interesting to see.
Will we buy it as a people?
Unfortunately, yeah.
Because I think deep down, I think we'll be upset at it.
Like it's just like what's happening right now, right?
Like both sides are furious.
Yeah.
Right.
It's like, I get why conservatives are furious because Democrats have been calling them Nazis for four years and now they're like, but we need to be together.
Yeah.
It's like, well, you wouldn't want to be together with a Nazi.
Yeah.
Right?
Like, Democrats are saying, punch a Nazi in the face for four years.
And they're like, we need unity.
Right.
You know what I mean?
And then on the other side, I get how the people on the left are upset, right?
Because the people on the right have been, you know, angry at the left for like not accepting election results.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden they're like, well, we're not accepting these.
Yeah.
Right.
So you're both like fraudulent.
I get why people are banging against each other.
I get why they're a little bit upset.
But at the end of the day, I think people just want ease of information.
I think the average person just wants to be able to like wake up, hear one thing, and feel like it's true.
Poor Mark got ingest 15 different types of news.
Guys, wake.
What is the diet?
What is the news diet?
You wake up in the morning.
Oh, yeah.
I was like Vox or some shit.
Which is like an extreme.
Not extreme, but it's like a left-handed leaning.
Yeah, something like that.
Openly left.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then like try to listen to like clips of like right shit.
And like, I'll listen to like random like Tucker clips and be like, what are people on the right saying?
Same topic, same information, both sides.
You got to listen to five stories to get an actual slice of what things are.
Yeah.
And I think it'd be so nice if you would just wake up in the morning, you turn on something that was pretty modern and center.
It'd be amazing.
And you just start your diet that way.
And if you want to know what they're saying a little bit extreme over there, you can go dabble.
You want to know what they're saying over here on the left?
You can go dabble as well.
But at least you could just get something down the middle.
Beauty of the rising.
Yeah, this beauty of the rising, this beauty of maybe like hearing someone talk on Rogan.
It's just like, it's just going to be the truth.
Yeah.
And it'd be nice to have it.
It just would be so fucking convenient.
Did Fox News do this to themselves?
If Trump becomes bigger than them, they didn't create, I think CNN deserves a lot of the credit blame, whatever you want to say, for creating Trump.
Fox News also, though, fed it and fed it and fed it and ate off of it and ate off of it and ate off of it.
And now, ironically, Trump is calling them fake news.
The one time they try to be like news, hey, we're calling Arizona a rap.
And then Trump is like, no, it's too early to call, which I don't think he was wrong.
But they're like, now we're sticking with this.
We're good.
We believe this.
And then Trump and the Republican, Trump Republicans are like, we're not.
Fuck you.
You're not with us anymore.
Fuck you.
And now they're taking a hit the one time they defied Trump.
And it's like, you fed this beast.
You helped create this beast.
Now that beast is going to take a bite out of your shit.
Yeah, it's weird.
I think they probably knew that my assumption is they knew that he was probably going to start something in media.
And that's why they started to distance themselves from him even a few months ago.
I think once they felt like he might not win the election, they're like, well, we can't keep propping up this motherfucker because he's going to come for our next the second this is over.
Yeah.
Oh.
Oh, that's interesting.
You should be playing chess a little bit.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Styles of the Queen's gambit.
You know?
But you should, you got to be thinking a few steps ahead.
Yeah.
Every single move.
Surfshark VPN Deals00:03:03
I don't know.
I think people want ease, man.
What is the way to have ease?
What is the way to feel like you understand something?
Because it's probably so vulnerable to like digest one bit of information and then exist throughout your day with that information, assuming it's the truth, and then get in one conversation with someone and then they give you a different point of view you never even considered.
And you're like, what the fuck was I spending all day listening reading this?
It's demoralizing.
Yeah.
Yeah, you get duped.
You feel fucking duped.
That's your foundation.
Yeah.
What I know.
That's the foundation of how I live my life.
Yeah.
My reality.
You either got to write those other people off as like fringe or conspiracy, or you got to just say like they're wrong or they're lying or they're brainwashed.
You got to come up with some type of explanation to not understand.
Yes.
You either, yeah, instead of accepting that new information, you have to reject the source.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or I change who I am.
Yeah, and that might be too much.
It's a lot, bro.
Who the fuck I am?
Yeah.
I'll just say that they ain't shit.
It's like these girls that, like, if a dude cheats on them, they're angry at the girl.
Yeah.
That's way easier.
Why are you trying to tear apart my home?
Well, she don't want to move.
I don't want to move.
You know what I mean?
We got kids.
We got all this kind of shit.
That's a lot of work.
So fuck that bitch.
That's why she's the home wrecker.
Not he.
Yeah.
She ain't do nothing.
Damn it.
She didn't even know you had a home.
Maybe some of them did, but you know.
Yeah, he got her a hotel.
She brought her home.
Yeah.
Home as a fuck.
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Running Within The System00:10:09
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Let's get back to the clip.
Do you think he runs in 2024?
I don't think he runs, but I think he teases as if he's going to to make sure the Republicans do his bidding.
If you tease as if you're going to, they can't piss you off.
So this is how he keeps his foot on their neck a little bit.
And I think also stays that much more relevant.
Relevant.
Exactly.
I think he just wants that relevance.
He don't want to go through this shit again, bro.
He's going to be old.
He's tired.
He's been popping Adderall every single day for the last four years.
You don't want to do that shit.
Nah, that makes sense.
I thought maybe he was just so like his ego was hurt right now.
So he's like emotional and he's like, I don't like losing, so I'm going to fucking run again.
And then when he got removed from that emotion, he'd be like, I don't want to do this.
But that makes a lot of sense, too, is let me stay as relevant as possible, have everybody doing what I need them to do, and eventually I'll step off.
What if he starts facing charges, though?
I think everybody gets sued.
My understanding is that after you're president, everybody gets sued.
So he's probably raising money right now.
I think he's starting some pack right now.
You say he was raising money or some shit.
I forget exactly what it was, but it's just going to be for legal fees.
Like apparently, like George Bush got sued out the wazoo for like war crimes and all this other stuff.
So everybody's going to try to come for you.
Get some bread.
I don't think that they lock him up for because I think it kind of like makes America look shitty when you're locking up a president.
Yeah, the consequence of that for the nation, I think, is crazy.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, you can't be locking up presidents.
Like, it's almost better that it's not.
Yeah.
And not have these people out in the streets going wild.
It's just he's created so many enemies, though.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know what you're saying.
Like in New York.
Yeah, and the tax.
They don't fuck with him.
D.A. does not fuck with Trump right now.
Yeah, the tax evasion thing is a New York thing, I think, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, but rich motherfuckers don't go to jail.
That's another thing.
It's like, when do rich motherfuckers go to jail?
When they're in the mob, basically.
Tax evasion.
But that's tax evasion.
But that's tax evasion from doing illegal shit to make the money.
This guy's doing legal shit to make the money, but he's not paying a piper.
If you out there selling drugs, you got like gambling rings and that kind of shit.
It's like they got to get you into taxes because it can't prove the drugs and shit.
I don't think the government wants to get mobsters on tax evasion.
Yeah.
No, they don't.
Right.
They're going to lock them up.
Yeah.
They actually are probably going, why can't you do some legal shit and just not pay taxes like the rest of the rich people?
You can't double not pay.
Right, right.
Because that is the easy.
The reason they do it is the only thing you can prove and get them locked up on.
So for Trump, though, we can theoretically prove this and get him locked up on this.
And if we got a bone to pick to the New York City DA and you don't like the motherfucker?
Yeah.
I don't know.
I mean, if Hillary's not in jail, bro, if like Bill's not in jail, like no charges pressed, none of that kind of stuff.
Like, I don't think anybody's coming.
I don't think they can because he's just at this point.
I mean, this is, like you said, it's a president.
Yeah.
Even if it's like you, good look or bad look, he's just so powerful at this point.
How are you going to get him?
How are you going to get this guy?
Yeah.
But yeah.
I wonder if they cut some sort of deal with him and they're just like, yo, stop being a wild boy and we're not going to come for you.
But if you act like a wild boy, then we're going to make it wild.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And do you see him not acting like a wild boy?
That's the thing.
I don't know if he could handle it.
The dude is old, though.
That's another thing.
I think it really depends on if he wants to set his kids up for politics.
You know what I mean?
If he's like, I want Ivanka, Ivana, what is it?
Ivanka.
Ivanka.
I want Ivanka and I want Don Jr. to be in politics, then I think he's going to put the pedals to the metal.
But if they're like, nah, nah, we don't have to.
We can just be a media and have some other businesses.
This politics shit is for the birds.
I don't want to be part of that at all.
Then I think he takes his foot off.
Oh, okay.
I think that's the only benefit.
If it's 10 years ago, I think he goes hammed and runs again.
The motherfucker's old, bro.
But in four years, he will be the same age Biden is now, I think.
Biden's 78 now, right?
Yeah.
Trump is 74.
So 2024, Trump going to be 78.
Same age as the president is right now.
Do you really want to go through all that shit?
I can see him go through it.
Really?
Yeah, I can see it.
For what?
Because he has too big of an ego.
But then again, he got to find a different way to engage people.
Holding on to that ego for four years for that thing.
I don't know that the emotion will, I think the emotion will run out.
That's what I'm thinking.
His ego right now is bruised.
But I think after four years, he can be in so much other shit.
He's going to be like, all right, I lost that election because I wanted to, realistically, I want it out.
And you can commit to yourself of anything.
And he's going to be fucking massive.
I just think he's going to continue with the, oh, stolen from me.
It was stolen for me.
Oh, he'll continue with that.
Galvanize his people.
Yeah, he's protecting him.
And then this motherfucker is going to be like, fuck it, let's run this shit back.
Run it back.
And then they're going to be even more enthusiastic to come out for him because they're like, yo, it was stolen from him the first time.
We're going to make sure it don't happen again.
And he could actually win if you like galvanize that much of the base.
And if Biden gets a bad job in the next four years.
It depends on what America looks like in four years.
And what Biden looks like.
Yeah.
Or Kamala, if Biden even makes it through.
I think it would be Kamala, man.
I don't know if people are ready to vote for this.
Maybe Indian woman.
Yeah, maybe.
Yeah, we got to see what America looks like.
If it is Kamala, that's actually really interesting because he could start another culture war.
Yeah.
You know, and really kind of like tap into that.
I just don't know what he's got.
I think no Corona, he probably wins.
Oh, this technology.
Yeah, like I think he wins because the economy is good.
But then I think the Corona kind of exposed him a lot in a lot of ways.
It really exposed, I think you would even say just poor leadership.
You know, and it's just like America, I don't want to say it's not hard to run, but the ship moves by itself, bro.
You know what I mean?
Like it moves by itself.
So I'm not saying any idiot could do it, but as long as you don't have a global pandemic, this shit is going to be all right.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
It's going to be all right.
How hard is it, bro?
That's the day.
It's hard when you're up against some shit.
Even then, even then, it's like.
It's going to move.
It's mad easy, bro.
Like, let's be honest, bro.
It's going to move.
The problem is when you experience a global pandemic, you actually got to lead for real, for real.
And you got to lead for real, for real with leadership skills.
Okay.
When you're operating with government, this is the thing that's really interesting about government specifically, right?
And this shows his ineptitude when it comes to politics, right?
You can't operate as a businessman within government.
The way our system is set up is for these three branches to work together.
And when these three branches work together, it's incredibly difficult.
But when they do get something through, it's hard to undo that thing.
Okay.
Trump's successes have come through executive orders.
This is bad because the next executive that's in there can do what?
Overturn everything.
Overturn every one of those executive orders.
Trump is trying to get rid of Obamacare for how long?
Still can't get rid of that shit.
Pieces change, yes, but he can't get why because Obama knows how to operate within the structure.
And within that structure, he got something done and passed with all three branches.
So that shit becomes entrenched.
So these victories that Trump claims, we're building a wall.
Well, yeah, Biden can come and be like, yo, uproot that wall.
Here's an executive order.
Yeah.
Do you see what I'm saying?
So this is, you can't essentially run the country like a business because it's not structured in that way.
And he wasn't trying.
When you are only pandering to your base, you're not even trying to reach across the aisle.
You can't get anything done through a governmental system that is going to last, that is going to outlast you.
And I think that's his failure.
He pandered only to his base and he was the president of only his base.
And when it comes to our institutions, our governmental institutions, that's not how you work this shit, baby.
It's just not how you work it.
That's the only reason why I have just a little bit of faith for Biden because he's known for at least going across the line and trying to work to get shit done.
He's such a pretty moderate person.
Let's just hope he tries to get the right things done.
But I think, you know, he'll go about at least trying to get shit done the right way, like you were just saying.
Yeah.
You're just the operator.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But kind of as you kind of should be in that role, the system is made for operators.
Yeah, yeah.
That's what it is.
And being a politician, we all act like we don't want politicians in the office, and that's Trump's appeal.
He's not a politician.
He does not, he's not a part of the system.
Yeah.
To get things done, you kind of need to be a politician.
So you need the guy.
And when crises come, I've been doing this for decades, bro.
I know what it is.
There's a, and I can't say how anybody will handle corona better, but Robbie was saying, he goes, he goes, Obama was an operator and he operated within structures his entire life.
He became the president of the Harvard Review or whatever that thing was, right?
Because he knows how to get into a system and rise to the top of that system.
He is amazing at it.
He knows how to work with different people within these structures and utilize those relationships to put him to the head of it.
And every business or whatever he's been in, he becomes the leader in the world.
He is, yeah, and then including the country, right?
Of course, he's going to operate well given all the animosity against him.
Of course, he's going to operate well within those structures because that's what he's good at.
That was not Trump's expertise.
And especially when it comes time to a pandemic where you actually need operators, you need people like, all right, what can we agree on?
You don't need a motherfucker that's going to be like, all right, deals off the table.
That's it.
We're walking away.
Trump's the head of every corporation.
He just formed his own corporation.
He's the head of it.
So he doesn't have to have as much experience figuring out, not just getting to the top.
Once I'm at the top, how do I make this all work?
Obama had to go weaving its way in and out of everything.
Trump was like, I'm going to start my own shit.
What are y'all really going to do?
And that's how he got to the White House.
But then when you're in there, you don't have the experience of operating within it as much.
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