Andrew Schulz and Akaash Singh dissect "The Last Dance," debating Michael Jordan's ego-driven legacy against Scottie Pippen's $18 million contract and Jerry Krause's fatal flaw of firing Phil Jackson after five championships. They analyze how the Bulls' triangle offense utilized underskilled defenders while Jordan mastered media code-switching to build a billion-dollar brand, yet criticize the documentary for ignoring the psychological cost of "emptying the tank." Ultimately, the discussion reveals that while Jordan defined an era, the dynasty's collapse stemmed from unmanageable egos rather than tactical failures. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Secretly Recorded Explanation00:10:37
Fuck it.
I'm gonna start the episode by just playing you this video.
So right now, we're talking about the last dance.
All right.
I'm gonna start the episode by playing you.
My girl secretly recorded me explaining to her the rules for watching the last dance.
And I played it.
She just said it to me this morning.
I played it for Arkash and Alex before because I didn't know what wild shit I might have said.
So we didn't get to play it live.
But apparently this is the conversation.
All right.
Hold on.
Oh, my God.
No, no, no.
At commercials, I'll answer all the questions.
Remember, it's on ESPN.
So there's going to be commercials and there are going to be tons of fucking commercials.
Can we pause and watch it live?
I need to watch it with everybody that's watching it.
I'll be looking at Twitter during the commercials.
You can look at Twitter, but I can't talk.
During the commercial.
I'm going to watch this.
I'm going to watch it.
But we could pause it for any to ask a question.
No, we cannot.
But we cannot.
I'll watch it at the studio.
I'll leave right now.
I think if you're laughing about this because you think it's not serious, then if you ruin this for me, I swear to God, I'll jump out the window.
Oh, my God.
Son, I got so tight, son.
I got so tight, bro.
I got so tight.
Oh, my God.
Because I could tell she was like, nitpicking.
I didn't realize she was fucking with me, right?
I could tell she was nipping.
Can I ask you a question?
Can we pause?
Pause.
So I'm supposed to be a little bit behind everybody else watching the last dance.
Oh, my God.
And I lost it and I said, I'm about to leave.
We're going to the thing.
I'm going to go to the studio.
I was about to get on the bike and go right to the studio.
I swear to God, I was going to watch the whole thing because I had just enough time.
I started the argument around 8.15 because I knew that this could happen.
And I wanted to lay the ground rules for watching it, right?
She gets me all fucking riled up.
I said, if you fucking ruin this, she stopped recording, but the best part, I thought, I got really upset.
And I looked at her.
I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, let me tell you something.
I was like, Michael Jordan is the greatest athlete in the history of the world.
This guy has six rings.
You don't even have one.
Pay attention.
Maybe you can learn something.
I had to put it in terms that she would understand.
Okay.
You want to learn how to get a ring?
Watch this, man.
Let me go over the next four Sundays.
Oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
That is fucking hilarious, huh?
Holy shit.
I'll show the video.
I'll send you the video.
You can cut it right in.
I don't give a fuck.
And did you hear my voice with my girl, Mad High?
Mad Polite?
Okay, baby.
What are you going to do?
I got a white man voice.
I didn't even realize I got one.
I swear to God, I'll jump out the window.
I'll go to the studio right now.
When she kept pushing back, like, so you can talk to Twitter, but you can't talk to me.
The second I heard that, I was like, oh, it's going to be a thing.
I'm going to have to explain things or whatever.
A conversation?
But ain't no time for conversation.
It's the last dance, bro.
This is the last one.
This is the last dance.
Ain't no dances after this.
There's no more dances.
After this, and then eight more.
Hey, I couldn't believe it, bro.
I couldn't believe it.
We almost got into a five.
During it, I had to hit Vegan Bay with a couple pop-pops.
She's like, oh, boy, I was like, I sounded like, gibbity, bobbity, baby, boom, what's that motherfucker's name?
Swing.
I know it's a shine song, but I forgot the fucking dance.
That's what I said.
Wait a minute, so Jerry Kraus and Jerry.
Commercial.
Commercial.
You couldn't talk unless it was commercials.
That's the rule.
You're getting ignored.
Ladies, if you're listening to this right now, and I'm telling you, this is very important because this story is told in a way where women will like it.
So if you're listening to this podcast right now and you're a woman, you don't care about sports.
Right now, we're talking about the last dance, which is a bulls documentary about their last season and also the seasons that preceded that and the drama.
Not their last winning season, if you will.
But I thought it was a Jordan documentary only.
We'll get to that later.
But it centers obviously around the greatest player of all time, Michael Jordan.
But it's not really about basketball.
It's about the drama.
It's real housewives.
Around the basketball.
Of basketball.
Really?
Like, that's what it is.
So if you're a girl, you're going to be sucked into this thing.
Yeah.
It's maybe the best way to get your girl into sports, have them personally invested.
Like, you know how 24-7 tricked women into liking boxing?
Did it?
100%.
So 24-7, those documentaries on HBO, Oscar De La Joya, these types of fighters trick women into being really invested in boxing because they're like, oh, he's a handsome guy, but also he likes his kids and he takes care of his family and they wake up in the morning and they run together, all that other bullshit.
This could be that for a basketball.
Right.
Son, I'm going to say right now, this is going to win a bunch of Emmys.
Like, this is.
First of all, there's nothing else coming out.
Yeah.
In three months, it's over.
So well done, son.
Oh, my God.
I have to.
Like, I didn't know.
You know, the saying, like, oh, you're on the edge of your seat and shit.
And it's like just a saying.
I was literally on the edge of my seat, like, leaning towards the TV while watching this shit.
That's how fucking invested I was in this dude.
It was, let me tell you how great Michael Jordan is.
What type of sneakers did you wear today?
Jordans.
Alex, what type of sneakers did you wear today?
Mark, what type of sneakers did you wear today?
Fucking Canadian.
I wore Jordans.
You wore Jordans.
You were Jordans.
I'm a 36-year-old man.
There's no reason I should see something and be like, I don't want to wear my Jordans today.
Right?
Like, I understand when you're young, you watch white men can't jump and you want to play pickup basketball because it's so fucking cool and you're a kid.
You're easily influenced, right?
But we are grown-ups.
I didn't even realize I did it until I got here.
Oh, really?
In my mind, I was like, oh, Jordans look good with these sweatpants, whatever.
Look like I can't.
No, it's the last dance.
100%.
And when I got here, I was like, oh, I'm a sheep just like everybody else.
Yes, you are.
I can't wait to see.
I was intentional.
I was like, which Jordans am I going with?
I chose him last night.
I chose him last night.
Me and my girl were fighting, so I might as well look at what I'm going to wear.
It is what it is.
Listen, sometimes you need to cut different shit out for greatness.
That's what I learned.
Oh, man.
That's what I learned.
You need a single focus for greatness.
And that's the shirt, if I'm not mistaken, that you wore it when you performed in Chicago.
No, I performed Boston with this.
Ah, fuck.
Close, close, close.
I should have won the other shit.
I got the Rodman joint.
That might come out for the Robin episode, Alex.
But Al, you got on your black, red, and white.
Yeah, I had to wear the colors.
I had to wear the colors.
I got you.
I don't know what you're doing.
Son, you might have to get the Jordan sneakers up and put them out here.
I was talking to Bug.
I was like, yo, I think I'm going to order his jersey from high school, college.
I was like, remember how Jordan?
I was just thinking about this.
Remember how Jordans were kind of played out?
They're dropping the fives.
I'm buying.
And then I was like, I looked at your black threes.
I was like, I don't got cement threes.
What the fuck am I doing?
I need Brad Fours.
I'm back in the Jordan game.
We're back in the game.
You know, the craziest thing I saw.
I don't know if this is true or not, but I want to get into the documentary.
I want to get everybody's take on it.
But a couple of things I thought were interesting.
The reason I was so excited, I'm sure the reason why many of us are so excited about this documentary is because Jordan was the ultimate competitor.
Yes.
Right?
The truest form of alpha male that has ever existed in sport, in my opinion.
Yes.
Right?
And the impetus, the catalyst for this special getting made, apparently, this footage has been sat on for 22 years.
Yes.
Right?
When Jordan greenlit it was after LeBron finished his 3-1 comeback with the Cavs.
Now, if you want to look at insane competitor, right?
You know your legacy is the greatest to ever do it is locked in.
Right.
All of a sudden, LeBron does something truly miraculous.
He comes back 3-1 against the best team ever possibly.
Yeah.
Right.
This was prior to Kevin Durant being there.
If they win that game, they're 73-9 and they got the chip.
They're the best team ever.
That's the best team ever.
Comes back and beats them.
Everybody, ourselves included, start going, nah, LeBron is the best.
He's the GOAT, et cetera.
Jordan picks up the phone, makes a phone call.
He goes, it's green lit.
Go make it.
Let motherfuckers know who the GOA is.
I was wondering if it was intentional because I was like, yo, this is 23-year-old footage now?
And I remember Spike Lee, like 10 years ago, I don't know if this was the footage, but he was like, we followed Jordan with cameras this whole last season.
I don't know if he's actually involved in this, but he said, we followed Jordan with Cameron.
We're going to put that movie out.
This is 2008 or something.
I've been thinking this was going to come.
I was like, oh, I must have died.
Then all of a sudden it comes out.
I'm like, why now?
Yeah.
Why now?
That's fucking crazy.
The GOAT.
Ultimate competitor.
23 years later.
23 years later.
Oh, 23 years after what?
It's just 23.
Oh, 23, 97, 98 season.
After the season, 23 years later.
Wow.
I mean, okay, where do we start?
Where do we start?
I need to rewatch it to really just gather everything.
The first thing I picked up on is this motherfucker intimidates me 30 years later, 3,000 miles away, whatever the fuck.
First of all, real quick to everybody listening, we are reviewing episodes one and two.
Okay, so if you're getting to this late, maybe you're getting to this a few weeks from now, just know that we're going to review every single one.
We'll do it every Monday.
It will come out every Monday, but this is just Eps one and two because that's what we've seen.
Okay, go on.
I hang around with obsessive people who want to be the greatest.
I am, we are, it's, none of us are beta males.
We go into this thing and I'm watching Jordan on a fucking couch, 50 years old, got a little belly, and then old footage of him.
And this motherfucker intimidates me through a TV.
It's crazy, the intensity, the fucking level of everything.
There will never be another.
I felt stupid for thinking LeBron was even close to this guy.
I felt ashamed.
He made me feel that through a TV, not even talking to anybody in particular.
Yeah, so did I. There's an interesting conversation happened on Twitter.
Intimidation Through TV Footage00:05:54
And if you want to know what it takes to essentially be that great, how maniacal you have to be to be that great, how sociopathic you got to be to be that great, and maybe why LeBron doesn't have that.
And maybe it's for good.
Yeah.
It's like, I think that we'll end up learning shit about Jordan that on a surface level we don't want to know or don't want to like or don't want to appreciate.
Right.
We'll learn some shit that we're kind of like, ah, it sucks that he was willing to do that.
I think we will learn that throughout the documentary.
But on a primal level, we're like, oh, he was willing to do whatever it took to win.
Yeah, dude.
And one of those things that was really interesting, it was the Twitter conversation was people go, Braun got Tristan Thompson 80 million.
Braun got JR 60 million.
Braun got a bunch of other like journeyman players contracts throughout the year.
Yeah, Braun is a better philanthropist.
Jordan let Scotty get seven years, $18 million.
Now, a lot goes into this, right?
A lot goes into this.
But a lot was made out of that contract that Scotty Pippen got.
Important thing to know before you get crazy upset about Scotty getting seven years, 18 years, seven years, 18 months.
Jordan signed a rookie contract for six years.
Okay.
He was making at the end of that contract $4.5 million or something like that.
I can get the exact statistic.
It wasn't a lot of money.
NBA players weren't making a lot of money at that time.
I mean, that's still tons of fucking money.
All these people who just got $1,200 stimulus check talking about Scotty only made $18 million.
It's like, you'll never make $18 million in your life.
Why are you worried about $18 million?
But Jordan, just a year prior, was only making $4 million or something like that, $4.5 million.
Jordan only made crazy money two years of his career.
He got the $30 million contract and then the $36 million contract.
After that, he stops and then he comes back and plays for the Wizards where he played for like veterans minimum.
It was like a million years or something like that.
So Scotty wasn't getting that badly ripped off.
Scotty just fucked himself.
That's what I Jordan was right.
I wanted to be mad at him for saying Scotty was selfish, but Scotty was selfish.
He was selfish.
You signed a shitty deal that the person fucking you over told you was a shitty deal.
I wouldn't sign this deal.
You want the money.
And why did you sign it?
Because you needed the money.
And that's fair.
You needed the money.
Now, I don't know how a family in Arkansas that was probably raised on under $50,000 for the household couldn't survive on over $2 million a year.
I don't understand.
Like, he's like, I had to take care of my family.
It was like, over $9 million for three years?
I mean, it's still, he has to take care of himself too.
Okay, you can take care of yourself.
Four-year contract for $10 million, you can't take care of a lot of people.
Yeah, but you're a ball player.
You want to get a nice house.
That's on you.
That's not on an organization.
So you got to decide.
Like, don't do the whole I had to take care of my family.
You could have taken care of your family.
$1 million you give your family and they are good for the rest of their life.
Literally, for the rest of their life.
They're fine.
So I think what we'll get into other discussions about this, but I think something is really interesting going on right here.
Is like they're positioning the Bulls organization, especially Kraus.
Krauss is obviously the villain in the documentary, and you need characters in a documentary, but they're positioning Pippen as this player that was like extremely taken advantage of, right?
And he wasn't taken advantage of because he agreed to sign the contract.
Now, when you underperform your contract, you don't give back the money.
Yeah.
Yep.
I mean, I'm a Knicks fan.
I know motherfuckers who underperform their contract.
And never once have they been like, you know what?
My knee blew out.
Can I give you back 10 million a year?
Word?
Yeah.
Ever, right?
So if you decide to fucking give away his trade clothes, fuck knee blew out.
Knee blew out.
Wouldn't do it, right?
Knee blew out.
I can have sympathy for.
There's a lot of people who are like, you know what?
My contract year, I was in the best shape of my life.
And then I just haven't really committed like that since I signed.
You guys should take some money back.
We all know contract year players get huge deals and don't ever, they're never that good again.
That's right.
Deion Waiters was in great shape when he made that cool.
Wasn't he?
Bro, I felt so little sympathy for Scotty Pippen.
Right.
You signed a deal that they the Jerry Reinsorf is no hero.
He's no angel.
If his story, which Scotty doesn't refute, at least in the documentary, is I told you not to sign this deal.
Don't fucking come crying to me if you sign it.
That's it.
You are warned up front.
Most that's a wolf in wolf's clothing.
Wolf in sheep's clothing, I could be mad at.
I feel deceived.
A wolf who tells me I'm a fucking wolf, yo.
You sign this contract.
I'm not letting you out of this.
This is your fuck up, and I will not have sympathy.
And keep in mind, Scotty Pippen did not come from a Division I school.
I don't, well, he signed his deal in 91.
So he wasn't, it was a rookie deal.
No, no, I know it was a rookie, but I'm saying it's like he wasn't this, he wasn't Scotty Pippen yet.
Yeah.
Right?
He was good, but he wasn't Scott.
He wasn't one of the 50 greatest players of all time.
89, 90, they got their first ring.
I'm pretty sure.
So if he signed it in 1991, he's off.
He's coming off a chip.
Then he's a fucking retard.
He's a fucking retard.
We have nothing.
I thought he signed it.
I think he signed it before.
I thought he signed it before getting the rings.
1991, he goes first.
And can you look at when 1991 he got the ring?
My bad.
Because if he signed it before, it makes complete sense.
June 1991 is what?
When he signed the contract?
So June is...
Right after winning the ring.
He would have won the ring.
You shouldn't feel bad at all.
You shouldn't feel bad at all.
Coming off a championship.
You're fucking retarded.
I need to take care of my family.
I'll take seven years.
Get the fuck out of here.
You're literally saying another thing.
Your first contract, you're taking care of your family.
What are you talking about?
Your family in, what was it, Arkansas?
Globalizing Sports Channels00:03:27
Yeah.
Your family in Arkansas.
You can't take your family?
What?
It might have been 93 or something.
93, what?
That he signed the contract?
No, no.
He's on a seven-year deal.
He'd have been up in 2000.
And he left the team in 97, 98.
Go on.
Everybody's mad at MJ.
You made all this money.
Basketball players didn't make all this money back then.
You know why they made all this money?
MJ.
MJ.
He lifted everybody's financial situation.
I mean, we can get into that right now if you want.
But like, again, people need to understand.
And you can even look at the collective bargaining agreement.
There was a time where I think the CBA said that the total salary cap for our scene was like $12 million.
The league wasn't making money.
The league wasn't making money.
Now, so people want to look at the NBA, right?
There's different phases.
The Magic Bird phase, the reason why Magic Bird, Magic Bird precedes Jordan, obviously, but then there's some crossover.
But the reason why Magic Bird was so interesting is because that's when Fortune 500 companies came into the league.
That's when it became legit nationally.
Because before that, they wouldn't even play the finals live.
They would tape it.
Right.
And then at 2 in the morning or some shit like that, 12 in the morning, whatever, they would put it on.
Like, you can't even beat out fucking the Cosby show.
We're not doing this.
Right.
So that's national awareness.
Celtics, Lakers, Bird, Magic, national awareness, and Fortune 500 companies.
And that's important because when you get Fortune 500 companies to invest in the league, that's like a way of legitimizing the business in a lot of ways.
They're like, oh, this is a real thing.
They're not investing in high lie.
They're not investing in fucking dodgeball, right?
But they're doing basketball.
Okay, shit is there.
Jordan makes it international.
Jordan makes it a global game, right?
He takes the NBA to a height that it hasn't seen since.
That's what people don't realize.
The ratings for the finals during Jordan's reign aren't touched now.
We don't come close now.
To be fair, is that because there's so many more channels?
Say again?
I mean, he was doing that in 91 or whatever when there was like eight channels.
Ain't nobody choosing to watch VH1 over the NBA finals, fam.
Like, you can have a million channels.
It don't matter.
When the NBA finals is happening, sports fans aren't going, oh, but there's bowling on.
No, but it's the same amount of sports.
Everything is going down.
There's less sports fans because now you don't.
A lot of us are sports fans because you got raised with sports.
Like, that's what was on.
That's what I'm watching.
If you're got 400 channels and YouTube and all that shit, kids that are growing up now aren't going to be as into sports as we were.
I disagree.
And I also make the argument that there's more people.
There's literally more people that exist now.
There's more people.
There's more ways to watch it.
More people.
More people, more global ways to watch.
The sport is even more global now because of Jordan.
And it still does worse for it.
Actually, to your point, Adam Silver's big thing that he's worried about now is people don't actually watch the games.
They'll talk about it.
They'll tweet about it.
They'll watch highlights, but they don't actually sit down and watch the games.
All right.
So then there's...
And there's other things that are going on here.
Maybe people cutting cable packages, et cetera, whatever.
But even if you go back to like the height of post-Jordan era, when people were super excited about sports, so Kobe years, all that shit is not fucking with the Jordan.
Big hangover after Jordan left.
Huge.
So it's like Jordan is the most iconic sports hero in history.
You saw the parts where he went, maybe Ali, but it's really rare air globally.
He went to Paris and he's a star in Paris.
They don't even play basketball in Britain.
Finding Team Weaknesses00:15:35
That blew my fucking mind, dude.
Think about this.
How many French players were there in the NBA at that time?
Zero.
One of the guys, when he was playing, I think in France, in the handshake line after the game.
Ask for his elbow pad.
Asked for his wrist, but his elbow pad.
Like, that's how you know you're on a different level.
The guy you just played for, you asked for the thing he sweated in.
Blew my mind.
That you just lost to.
You just got bodied.
That game, dude.
I wanted to talk about that because that game stuck out to me as like so much there in that little thing where, first of all, he's playing a fucking exhibition against France.
Right.
And he goes out and gives it his all.
Right.
How many stars are doing that today?
It's an exhibition against a country that doesn't fucking matter, really.
Like, there's nobody here that I need to dominate to send a message.
I'm just Jordan, and I'm always going to be the fucking greatest.
Yeah.
And then you remember that guy was kind of like joking around next to him, that young buck that was like the guy next to him.
Pharrell.
Yeah.
You got your first ring.
And then he's like, MJ, I got my first ring.
And the look Michael Jordan scared the shit out of me.
And he kind of laughed afterward because the guy got in a laugh, but he was like, are you fucking mind telling me?
Can I get a hug?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
And then the way the guy asked for the elbow pad or elbow band or whatever.
And Jordan just like, he was so used to motherfuckers accosting him.
He doesn't even make eye contact.
He just takes it off and hands it to him.
Yeah.
Because that's how often people were at his throat.
They're interviewing him about Scotty Pippen later on.
Remember how close the microphones were to his face?
Yeah.
Like no space.
Yo, you could also show, you could also see like how valuable like parenting is.
Like Jordan was sharp, right?
Like, and you saw, like, he's sharp, he's savvy.
But when you heard his parents speak, they were.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, like, both mother and father.
Mother, smart, but like.
Wait, can we say this real quick?
You go.
She was a piece.
How Michael aging this poorly?
Dolores looks younger than him.
His mom looks younger than me.
He was dead ass, bro.
Like stunning, bro.
It was unbelievable.
Please, Jordan, don't come after this.
Dude, it's crazy.
Scotty Pippen's older brother looked like candy man.
I was like, who said his name five times?
Dolores got her real teeth.
Scotty got veneers.
Yeah.
What the fuck?
Scotty's teeth look good, though.
I'm like, he got all that contract on them fucking teeth.
I only assume they're veneers because I got insecure about my own teeth when I looked at his.
I assume you have veneers because Charles Oakley probably knocked them shits out, slapping his little bitch ass around.
That's why I signed that contract.
Oakley was like, signed a contract.
Yo, Oakley is a bully, son.
That's an arkage.
Oakley's an arkage, bro.
I swear to God.
Dude, he slapped him in his face on TV with a video camera.
That's a fight, bro.
That's a fight, but you see right there why Scotty's the perfect sidekick.
Because he's willing to be like, he's a little brother.
That's a little brother.
You slap me, little brother.
You're not going to do nothing.
You're going to laugh and be like, stop.
And Jordan.
I know.
I'm a little brother.
I got slapped around.
But Jordan was a little brother.
And he's like, when you go blow to blows with someone you love more than anything in this world, that's when you like empty the tank or whatever it was.
I wasn't sure the term he used, but like, that's like the height of competition.
When you're willing to fight someone that you love more than anything.
So if I'm willing to fight my brother, I'm willing to destroy any other team.
Yeah.
That's light work.
I'll take Danny Ainge out to play golf to see if I can find some weaknesses in him.
Dude.
That's what that shit was about.
Yeah.
Like he took Danny Ainge, the guy who played for the Boston Celtics.
He was the shooting guard for the Boston Celtics.
He's now the president, I think, or the GM for the Boston Celtics.
But he took him out to play golf.
Like, he is working you.
He's trying to find your weakness.
He's trying to get you to cozy up to him.
It was such a rich people flexor.
Like, oh, yeah, we played for a couple bucks.
Yeah, no, that was like thousands of money.
I'm gonna lie, but everybody's got his whole contract.
It's Jordan's second year, so maybe the Nike money was crazy.
But I was wondering, I'm sure they're betting a lot.
Is it Jordan's rich or is it Jordan is not making a lot of money?
But also, I don't give a fuck.
I'll compete about it.
It could be both, but he's also making a lot of money.
And he's got like smart parents.
Like, his mom worked in a bank.
Yeah.
Right?
She's probably seen people lose their money in the dumbest ways.
Right.
So she's like, we're not going to be stupid.
And I forget what the father was.
What'd the father do?
I think construction or some shit like that because I know.
I'm not sure what he did, but he was fucking sharp.
He understood.
I mean, you understood your kids.
You obviously understand your kids.
They're your kids, but he understood how to motivate.
He's like, you want to get Michael to do anything?
Just tell him he can't do it.
Yeah.
And like, he knew how to light the fire under that motherfucker.
Like, he knew sending him back into the house so that he could be with his older brother and do something with his older brother was just going to drive Michael crazy to the point where he was going to get that much better to do it.
Michael was like, every time I was playing, I was playing for my dad's affection.
Yeah, something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, dude.
But maybe that was the only time.
Like, I've tried to understand Jordan's mentality.
And maybe the only reason, maybe the only time he felt happiness was through victory.
So maybe that's why he played so hard in meaningless games because he's like, I still have to win to feel happy.
I don't feel happy yet.
Oh, there's something fundamentally broken with him.
Yeah.
Oh, absolutely.
But it's incredible to watch.
Oh, yeah.
Broken people are the best.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We're awesome composed, motherfucker.
Broken in a way that makes you constantly win.
Like, what the that's fucking beautiful, actually.
Like, that's amazing.
At all costs.
All right.
So let's get into the Krauss thing because the villain of this documentary is Jerry Krauss, who was the GM of the Bulls.
Yeah.
Now, the owner of the Bulls is Jerry Reinsdorf.
Yes.
I'm assuming at the time Jerry was the owner and president.
Meaning the president of a team handles things that are not only basketball related, but just all things related with the team.
The GM handles only the basketball side of things.
So a GM will, obviously, the president has say.
He signs off on the decisions of the GM, but the GM is like, who's going to coach?
Who are we going to get to play on the team, et cetera?
I believe the president is not only all those things, but also how are we going to market the team?
How are we going to find ways to sell fucking jerseys?
What are we going to do for these nights?
There are other things that are involved with the president.
So Krauss is, I guess, the villain here.
Krauss is very interesting and kind of unfairly painted, in my opinion.
Kind of at best, I think.
Okay, we'll go into it.
You tell me why.
Go.
Now, I'm curious to know why you think what was unfair.
And I think I know, but I'm still curious.
The biggest knock on Krauss is, in my opinion, the biggest thing you can take away from Krauss is he didn't draft Jordan.
Okay.
So the linchpin for all the other decisions that he made is Jordan, right?
He is the core of that team.
He's what makes that team win.
He's the engine that makes the car drive.
Yeah.
You've still got to build a team around him.
Yes.
Jordan didn't win before Krauss.
Yes.
Right?
Yeah.
Like he had other people on that team.
He had other coaches, but they couldn't get the job done.
Granted, he was much younger.
Maybe he would develop into a better player.
He was like 85, 86.
He came like right after Jordan.
Yeah, it was after Jordan.
But he didn't draft Jordan.
Right.
Right.
Which is very important.
He's a really interesting character because he comes from baseball, where he was a scout, and then just asked Jerry Reinsdorf.
Jerry Reinsdorf also owned the baseball team he was a scout for.
And they just asked him, Can I be GM?
Now, back in the day, scouting was like the pinnacle.
Yeah, that's what mattered.
So, if you were a good scout, I guess that meant that you could be good at being a GM.
Apparently, and I was asking around a bit yesterday, Krauss was way ahead of his time in terms of analyzing talent.
Now, here's the thing that people don't get: a GM's job is not to analyze superstars.
Anybody can say that Giannis Antonikupo is amazing.
Anybody can say that Michael Jordan is amazing.
Yeah, a GM's skill is in drafting, so you see it before they have it and role players.
That's the skill of GM is finding role players that fit with your superstars.
Anybody can tell you Shaq is going to do well, Kobe's going to do well, Kawhi is going to do well.
How do you find Ron Harper?
Right?
How do you get a 20-point-per-game score before he comes to the Bulls and know he's going to fit in that system?
How do you find Tony Kukoch?
How do you find Pippin?
How do you make the trade for Pippin?
Do you know who we traded for Pippin?
No.
No.
One of the greatest players in the history of the game, Scotty Pippen, was traded for a guy we don't fucking know.
Right.
Right?
Seeing that talent.
Yeah.
Right.
So he had an undeniable ability to find talent.
He was one of the first guys to get into analytics, things that people do now.
Wingspan, hand size, shuttle drills, closing speed.
Right.
Not, you know what I mean?
Like really getting into the almost like NFL type combine shit to truly analyze players and looking for an advantage anywhere he possibly could.
Right.
The problem is, in what the documentary shows is ego.
Yes.
Now, here's the thing about ego: ego is not a one-way street, usually.
Yeah.
Ego is a pinball machine.
And ego begets.
That's a bar, yo.
Ego begets ego.
Right.
Right.
So when you have one ego fighting against another, that's what causes the meltdown.
One ego is fine.
Three, four, five egos, that's when shit starts to become troubling.
And what we're looking at when we're looking at the Bulls is we're looking at a displacement of credit, right?
And that's where people get upset.
It's not just Jordan getting the credit.
Krauss can live with Jordan getting the credit.
It's Phil getting credit, right?
Krauss is going, nobody would know who Phil Jackson was if I didn't find him.
Nobody would know who Scotty Pippen was if I didn't trade for him.
Maybe they would.
Nobody would know who Tony Kucos was if I didn't go get him.
Nobody would know Dennis Rodman.
Well, yes, they would, but nobody would have given Dennis Rodman another chance if I didn't come in there and do it, right?
So he really did orchestrate this team.
Phil's getting all the credit.
Obviously, Jordan's getting the credit, but he's not getting credit.
And when there's that displacement of ego, you got him coming out and you got him going, I want mine.
The problem with Jerry Krause is that he'd never really experienced not having a Jordan.
And at the end of the day, a Jordan is what makes shit move.
Yeah, you are nothing without the Jordan.
Exactly.
It's easy to have ego when you've only experienced good times.
You've always been with a Jordan because you start going, well, I built it with Jordan.
I'll build it with someone else.
I built this team.
I could do it.
Right.
When Phil and Jordan dig their heels or into the mud or whatever that fucking saying is and say, nah, we're doing this.
This is our last dance.
The only equal opposite reaction to that for Jerry Kraus is, yeah, it is yours.
I'm blowing this thing up and I'm going to redo it without you guys to prove I can do it.
You don't think Bill Belichick's trying to win this year?
So, oh, yeah.
Damn right he is.
The two biggest, and you can maybe argue the bigger problem is Reinsdorf.
But Jerry Krauss, anybody who says he's an idiot, he's not a good GM, I can dismiss that person.
Yeah.
Your fatal flaw is, like you said, ego.
If I make millions of dollars and build an amazing mansion, cool, I did that.
If I burn the motherfucker down and lose all my money, I'm an idiot.
Yes.
There is, I don't care if I made the money and got the mansion.
I don't care if Jerry Krauss put the places in there.
You have won five straight championships and you tell the coach, you're not coming back.
I don't give a fuck if you go 82-0.
You're not coming back.
This is your last year.
That is pure ego.
You're burning the house down.
And for that, you are the villain.
100%.
You just are the villain.
Everything is a battle of egos.
Greatness, if you're not as great as Jordan or Phil, and a GM in particular, greatness is saying, okay, I will swallow my ego.
And if you can't swallow your ego amidst greater people with bigger egos, that's not a talent, especially not for GM, who by nature is behind the scenes.
Is Phil and Jordan not great by that definition?
Because they couldn't swallow their ego.
No, but they're greater.
They couldn't swallow their ego.
Michael's greatness.
No, but Phil.
No, Phil doesn't.
But he's my point is.
Paul knows how to deal with ego.
Hold on, hold on.
Make your point.
Phil will swallow his ego for Michael because he understands this is the greater person in this.
Right, but if you're saying the greater goal is to win and that's what greatness is about, then Phil would have swallowed his ego.
I'm just saying by that definition, Phil would have swallowed his ego ego with Kraus and he would have kissed the ring a little bit.
No, you should.
You can, but the more of the onus is on the person who is less great for like, that's the least crude, or like that's the only way I can be.
Because Krauss is going, you know.
Well, technically, there's no Phil without Krauss.
Yeah, that's cool.
So Krauss is going, I'm so great.
I found this diamond in the rough that nobody wanted.
Yeah, and that's your flaw.
And that's why the Bulls haven't had success for 23 years because you thought that.
Because you couldn't accept that, okay, I'm a really good GM.
This is the greatest coach ever.
I found the greatest coach.
Right, right, right.
I get what you're saying.
Yes.
And it's easy.
I think it's easy for us to look back in history and go, well, that's the truth because Phil went on to the Lakers and he had success with the Lakers, et cetera.
And Krauss really did nothing afterwards, right?
But in the moment, you're Krauss.
All you know is greatness and winning, right?
You must believe in that moment that you're the shit.
The same way Tom Brady is going to Tampa Bay and going, all I know is winning.
I'm going to go to Tampa Bay and I'm just going to take this team of people I've never played with and we're just going to bust everybody's ass.
And Belichick is also going right now.
Thank God we got Tom out of here.
He was the weak link.
I'm going to get someone in here.
We're actually going to fucking win this year.
Yeah.
Right.
So you have that.
You carry that ego and rightfully so.
So when he's looking at Phil, he's going, he ain't special.
Jordan's doing all the heavy lifting here.
I'm the one that decided to put Phil here and all these players that Jordan is working with.
Just do what the fuck I tell you.
Why can't you kiss the ring?
Everybody who's wrong thinks they're right in the moment.
But here's the thing.
If in history Phil went on to just continue to lose and Jerry went on to win, what would we be saying?
Oh, Jerry was right.
So in the moment, we don't know what's going to happen in the future.
We just got to operate with the egos they have.
If we're analyzing it, you're right in terms of history, but let's analyze how they're feeling in the moment because their behaviors are dictated not how the future is, but how they're feeling in that moment.
I can empathize with the feelings that make a person wrong.
Right.
The fact is, you were wrong.
Right.
But I mean, like, I get his mentality.
I get, I, I can empathize with understanding, yo, I fucking found Phil.
Franchise Instincts and Ego00:14:53
Who the fuck is Phil without me?
Who is he?
How's he greater than me?
Found him.
You were wrong.
Dead ass you were wrong.
No, no, no, no.
Again, we're not discussing right or wrong.
We're discussing the reason for actions in the moment.
Right.
So in the moment, Jerry was right.
I don't think so because it's almost like if it's not broke, don't fix it.
He's assembled.
Oh, great.
And a GM's.
Right, right.
So it's like he could step away.
He should know, like, his ego should be like, hey, I know that this is me.
I don't need the approval of people telling me that this is me.
And as a GM, right?
Here's the thing, real quick.
Yes, understood.
Understood.
But there is a give and take between everybody.
Right.
And maybe Phil wasn't giving Jerry the credit that he needed.
And if Phil is as savvy as we think he is and he's all about Zen and this, that, the other, maybe the smart thing would be for the dynasty is to give Jerry some of that credit.
If he was truly egoless, it would be a lot of fun.
I know he's not.
I know he's not.
What I'm saying is the smart thing, if we're talking about how to maintain the dynasty for so long, right?
Let's say I, and I'm not like this, but let's say I was like the all-seeing eye, right?
I go there and I go, hey, Phil, you know what Jerry needs?
Jerry needs you to publicly go, hey, none of this would be here with Dow Jerry.
Jerry Krause, he got these players.
He did this.
Man, what a fucking guy he was.
Gives him that little nibble on some credit.
And then all of a sudden, life is good between Jerry and Phil.
If we're thinking big picture, if I'm Jerry Reinsdorf, the owner, and I'm smart, I'm not going to Krauss.
I'm going to Phil.
And I'm going, listen, you know what this fat short guy needs.
He needs a little credit.
Can you throw him a bone in an interview?
Hey, Mike, do me a favor.
Do me a favor.
This guy's talented.
He's going to find players that we didn't know were skilled, right?
He's going to truly find guys.
And I think that he has skills.
Is he as important as you guys?
No, he's not.
But you know what he wants?
For that shit to keep going?
He just wants a little fucking nibble.
Just give them a little fucking nibble.
I think you keep it together if you do that.
I get what you're saying.
I wish they went into that a little bit more.
I think they might.
I think also, though, point I want to make if you're the GM and you are by nature behind the scenes, you like the greatest GM is going to be egoless in the sense of like, I'll let them have theirs.
I don't need the credit as much.
In the same way, an actor can get all the credit, but it's a guy behind the scenes making a lot of magic happen.
That guy behind the scenes is understanding.
I got an ego, but his is more important to him.
I'll feed him.
Who won the championship last year?
The NBA championship.
Toronto Raptors.
How many people know their GM?
Great GM.
Pull off a Kawhi Trey.
Got great role players.
Right, right.
Not many people know his name.
We know Maasai.
Right.
The president.
I don't know the GM.
I would also make the same argument, which was if you look at the coaches that have won championships in the last few years, they're all what?
Egoless?
First-year coaches.
Okay.
So if I'm a GM, I'm going, oh, coaches are meaningless.
I'll just throw anybody there.
Yeah.
And then I'll win a championship.
The reason you're doing it is I'm not getting credit.
Not saying that's the reason.
What I'm saying is, as a GM, you're going, oh, I could just put a first-year guy with no skill in there and they're going to win a championship.
Oh, coaches are really just about who the GM chooses to execute the GM's plan.
And the coach that's willing to do that is going to win it no matter his skill level or time doing it.
If you are a GM of the Warriors and you're looking at Steve Kerr like, you just took Mark Jackson's team and you just won a championship with it and you tweaked some things.
It's not that big of a deal.
Maybe you could be right.
If Steph Curry says, I'm not playing for another coach, you're here.
He didn't just throw out Phil when he made that move.
He knew beforehand, I am getting rid of Phil and the guy we know now is the greatest player of all time.
Right, right, right.
And then his number two, who he loves more than anybody, I'm already trying to get rid of this guy, Scotty Pippen.
Right, right.
So you are burning the whole thing to the ground and banking on I can rebuild this, all of this.
And the bigger problem than him is Jerry Reinsdorf to side with the fucking GM.
In what world are you siding with one GM being able to find the greatest player of all time again, the coach that he only wants to play for, who we're already putting in the echelon as the greatest coaches of all time and arguably the greatest number two of all time.
So, and again, we can't talk about this outside of, we can't talk about this given what we know.
We have to talk about this given what they know in the time.
Sure.
If you're an owner and a rookie GM, the guy who just came in, completely flips around your franchise, granted you have Michael Jordan, but you don't know what that means, right?
I think as an owner, you're going, well, Michael Jordan's eventually going to be done.
But I can have this GM here that built this fucking team and got this coach out of nowhere and got all these players to come play and he figures out how to use tall white guys like nobody in the NBA figured out how to use tall white guys like the Bill Cartwrights, the Bill Wenning, the Luke Longleys and shit like that.
Like he could figure out all this shit.
I think I understand the business decision of trusting that guy's instincts because that guy's instincts have worked.
I think we're both right.
Like we're both sides are right and equal points.
But like you can't really decide who's the worst or the who there's a bigger ego.
Like they're not saying people surrender to go.
Yeah, it's listen, it's bad on everybody.
And I'm not saying that what Krauss did was right.
I just think that people underestimate like how valid, people underestimate like how valid his feelings were in that moment.
It's like all of us are looking at Jordan as this guy that we bought sneakers from.
He's the greatest ever and all this kind of shit like that.
Krauss is looking at this guy like, oh yeah, he just kept losing to get bounced out of the first round before I got here.
Well, now I'm here and now he's a fucking winner because that's what happens when I put a team around you and nobody by themselves can win a championship.
That's what he's looking at it like.
I found the guys that make you the greatest player of all time.
I just think that by nature, that is a pretty egoless job.
And if you're going to let your ego dictate your decisions, you ruined what you built.
GMs, and I know this because I'm a fucking Cowboy fan.
The whole reason we've lost to Dynasty is because the owner and made himself GM had an ego.
Exact same thing.
I just want credit from the coach.
I just want Jimmy Johnson to say, hey, Jerry, help me a little bit.
But what if Jerry won all those rings?
And what if it was his decisions that won all those rings?
But it wasn't.
But what if it was?
Because with Krauss, it was.
What if it was?
I don't know.
I don't think you can say that definitively.
Yeah, I don't think you can say that because he hasn't won since.
Kim Floyd tanked.
It's a team.
He didn't find another great player after.
No, no, no.
I agree with you.
Again, you guys are looking at this back through history.
You have to look at things as people feel in the moment.
My point is about the egos.
Yeah, we're talking about that.
My point is, if you're a good GM, you got to step back from the business.
Everybody got fucking ego, right?
Everybody right now has people in their DMs, right?
All of us have people in our DMs telling us how great we are, telling us how amazing we are, telling us how nothing would operate without us, right?
That's what we all have.
And we like to believe that a little bit.
We listen to those fucking things, especially when we're feeling down and we're feeling a certain way.
We listen to that shit, right?
And we all overvalue our importance, right?
Because in the moment, we're really going, oh, shit, I fucking got this, right?
History decides what Jordan is and what Jordan is to that franchise.
We know it right now, but it's easy for us to know it.
Nah, in the moment coming off your fifth title, you know that he's the best player in the world.
Yes, you do.
Ever.
Yes, you do.
But you also have to make decisions for the future of your franchise.
And if Jordan doesn't want to play after this next year, he's already left once.
Maybe there's rumors.
He's like, man, I got a year or two left.
Should we start blowing this shit up?
Should we start trying to get value?
Not off the title.
I agree.
100%.
It's all ego.
But what I'm saying is ego begets ego.
Ego begets ego.
And I think what you're trying to say is Jordan and Phil aren't blameless.
Jordan, Phil, Pippen.
Everybody deserves some blame.
Everybody got ego here.
The majority of the blame, I think, still falls on Krauss.
I don't want to talk about too much more because we've already gone so much, but I think the majority of the blame still does lie at his feet.
Especially if, yeah, if you're winning titles, let's just ride this motherfucker until the wheels fall off.
Like, let's let him go.
And the second he loses, he's out.
Fuck this guy.
The second he loses, I'm firing him.
Yeah.
Then, okay, your ego got in the way.
Who knows what could have been, but you won six of the last eight years, five of the last seven years y'all were together.
Yeah.
Five of the last years you had Jordan, you won.
Right.
Let's go.
Let's just keep going.
Look, I agree.
Yeah.
The thing is, Jordan is the rare talent here.
And obviously, everybody knows this.
It's an easy argument to make.
But without Jordan, none of the other things work.
Without Jordan, Scotty Pippen is not one of the 50 greatest players of all time, in my personal opinion.
That's it.
Of course.
Now, with him, he is.
Yeah.
I don't know any other player out there that exists like that.
LeBron can make people better.
But which one of LeBron's teammates are the 50 greatest players of all time?
Dwayne Wade was there when he got there.
He was already that.
I think he makes AD more lethal.
I think AD's stock in history is going to go up if he got to play with LeBron long term, especially.
Because now you're getting deeper in the playoffs every year.
What you're doing, there's more of a microscope on it.
But yeah, Michael.
And you had to be able to handle Michael.
Yeah.
That's what made Scotty so perfect that he can take a slap from the face from Oakley.
Yeah.
And he can still keep going.
And that's why MJ was able to elevate him so much because he could stand up to whatever MJ was bringing.
He could take it.
Yeah, but he didn't.
And he didn't seem like scared.
He didn't seem scared of Jordan.
And Jordan doesn't seem like, he doesn't baby brother him.
No.
Jordan's like a lot of respect for Pippen, like a lot of respect.
I mean, he did something corny.
He was like, that's why I think he's my best teammate ever.
It's like, yeah, no shit.
Who's better?
Luke Longley is better.
Like, you didn't have any other teammates.
He could say one thing, though, that was like, there is no Michael Jordan.
You can't say Michael Jordan without saying Scottie Pippi.
Without seeing Scottie Pippen.
I think that's his way of really giving it up.
Like he's trying to give it up.
And he always really tries to give it up for Scotty.
I think he put Scottie.
I bet if you watch the 10 years before that, he put Scotty through some shit.
But I think when you're seeing him at this point, they want Scott Frank.
He's just a guy.
Why are we not seeing it?
And you never see him criticize Scotty.
You never see him yelling at Scotty.
Even when he's being critical of the way Scotty handled the arrangement when he was staying out or choosing to get the surgery during the, like, Jordan could have leaned the fuck in.
He could have been screaming during practices.
He couldn't have been screaming to the press and all that kind of shit.
Even posts, even in the interview, when you're watching him, he's like, man, he did something selfish, but he didn't trash Scotty.
He loves Scotty.
He really appreciates Scotty.
Maybe Jordan knows how great Scotty was.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe Scotty would have been higher on the list of 50 greatest.
And maybe he knows Scotty sacrificed his own greatness so that they could win all those championships.
I remember when Jordan was retired, Scotty Pippen was, I think he was the MVP of the All-Star game, I think.
He was like, he was dominating.
He took him to the conference semi-conference semis or the conference finals?
I think they lost to the Knicks, actually, the year the Knicks lost to the Rockets.
Then you guys knocked him out, and I'm pretty sure the conference semifinals.
Now he took him to the conference finals once.
Say he saw his importance when Pippen was sitting out from the injury and how much they were struggling.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like that right there shows like, oh, shit, I need this.
They opened the season 0-4 on the road.
I need him.
Yeah.
It's not like he's just a good role player.
No, I actually need him to win.
Yeah.
And they also said, like, and whose ego gets fed off of that as well?
Pippin.
Scotty's.
Kraus's.
Yeah, you can't do this without the pieces I give you players.
You can't do this without the moves I make.
You like it when fucking John Paxon hits a jumper?
Yeah.
You need shooters around you because they're going to double you in the final.
You know what I'm saying?
But anyway, but go on.
What were some of the funny memes or shit like that you saw online about this?
Did you see anything?
I didn't see any that were.
I saw a couple of funny ones, like the Blazers fans, how they felt for them picking Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan, like just like the crime memes and all that type of stuff.
That's the Jordan crime meme.
Yeah.
And then when you realize Pippen in his prime would have got that full stimulus check.
Yeah.
Okay.
So Jordan's effect on the league, right?
Yeah.
This is the craziest thing that I think people don't realize.
It's like, and why Jordan's ego?
I feel like he's humble.
I feel like Jordan, even as huge as his ego is, he's actually humble because everybody is getting paid because of Jordan now.
He changed the world.
Son, yes, he changed the world.
I'm just talking about basketball players.
I'm just talking about LeBron James.
I'm talking about all of his, like, Scotty Pippen.
I'm talking about Charles Barkley, all of his friends, and all that kind of shit.
Like, you can act like you're his contemporary.
He's looking at you and he's like, I made the CBA increase the salary cap three times.
I, everything that you get is because of me.
You're all eating off of me.
Not only is the Bulls organization, everybody around you is eating off of me.
You got sneakers because I got a sneaker.
And that was what I was going to respond with when they said, like, LeBron got Tristan Thompson $80 million.
No, Jordan got Tristan Thompson $80 million.
Jordan got LeBron a billion dollars from Nike.
Jordan made every dollar you make possible.
Like, I think Magic had sneaker, a sneaker, and I think Bird had a sneaker.
But I don't know who the fuck Chuck Taylor was.
Was he a basketball player?
Some white guy, probably.
Was he?
I don't know.
Charles Taylor III or some shit like that.
Some shit, right?
So it's like, but Jordan had the signature shoe, and now you see the signature shoe.
Yeah.
Right?
This is something that happened.
To put perspective into the amount of money that's been generated, I think last year, Jordan Brand made $3.6 billion.
Nike basketball made $1.8 billion.
What?
Son, Jordan's lasting legacy.
This is the thing people don't realize.
We will remember Jordan as a basketball player.
His lasting legacy will be Jordan Brand.
It will be basketball sneakers.
The Maniacal Killer Transition00:15:45
The kids now that are watching this documentary.
Son, the kids now that are watching this documentary, the kids in college don't even remember Kobe's heyday.
That's the thing people don't realize.
Like, yeah, Kobe and the Lakers, Kobe and the Lakers with Shaq, the three P, happened in 2020 years ago.
If you're in college right now, you don't remember Kobe's greatness with Shaq.
Yeah, you don't remember the Lakers dynasty.
You weren't alive for the Liberty Bros.
You weren't alive for it, dude.
How fucking nuts is this?
So Jordan Brand is going to be the legacy of Michael Jordan, not Jordan the player.
That's why this documentary was, it's actually better that it dropped later.
First of all, we're more interested in documentaries in general.
Yes.
Second of all, every kid has, they never saw Mike play.
You didn't watch his games on NBA Classic, but it's like, how into a game can I get when it's this low definition ass quality and there's no stakes?
Whatever.
Then you watch this and you're like, oh, that's what everybody was talking about.
And also, it's cool for us because we take for granted how transparent LeBron is now, how transparent Kobe was.
Everybody got Twitter.
Everybody's talking to you all the time.
In the 90s, there's so many stories in that documentary I never saw because we didn't have a local, we didn't live in Chicago.
So many of those little snippets you just saw like on Chicago with local sports or whatever.
Yeah.
And Sports Center, if you had cable, but then you got school and all this shit.
Like, it's all getting in the way.
I love the moment with the two little kids.
They were like, oh, our parents asked, do we want Christmas gifts or schools?
Jordan.
It's like that's a great fucking choice, white kids.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
Yeah, it was, there was, I love what they did, like the way they positioned Jordan in the documentary.
My one, well, we'll get to criticisms afterward.
We can close up with criticisms, but I love how they position Jordan.
Like when they put people, famous people in the pictures, the Chirons that they use for them, a Chiron is like the description of the famous person.
So it was like Barack Obama, resident of Chicago.
Yeah, former resident of Chicago, yeah.
Former resident of Chicago, Bill Clinton, former governor of Arkansas.
Yeah.
Right.
Now, they did that because Bill Clinton was going to see Scotty Pippen play for University of Central Arkansas.
That's what they was at the time, bro.
Yeah.
They were like, how does this person relate to the place in which they were?
So Obama was a resident of Chicago when he was watching Jordan.
But that's how you know Jordan's greatness.
You have two former presidents in episode one of his documentary that ain't even his documentary.
You know what I'm saying?
That's a great point.
It's two former presidents and they don't even label them motherfuckers as president.
Jordan is the GOAT of this documentary and everybody else was just a guy.
Everybody was a guy.
Right?
There's just a part of this fucking ecosystem that was thriving off of what Jordan was.
I mean, oh, dude.
I remember watching this one part of it and like everything started to make sense for me in this one part.
It was a part about his minute restriction.
Okay.
So he got to play 14 minutes a game and they'll usually play seven the first half season.
And the only reason they made that compromise is because Jordan had an injury that he's supposed to sit out the whole year.
He has to go do rehab in North Carolina and then he just starts playing five on five.
Yep.
Comes back, tells them.
And they're like, what the fuck?
You're not playing in games.
And he's like, no, I'm playing in games.
And he just causes such a fucking ruckus that they're like, all right, fine.
We will give you 14 minutes a game.
Yeah.
From complaining, he got 14.
That's why he got 14.
Now go ahead.
And to keep it clear, the only reason they did it is because they wanted to tank so they could get a lottery pick.
Okay.
Right.
Like, that's why they did it.
Right.
They're like, okay, this foot is fucked up.
He's healed.
He could come back and play, but we might as well just take the season off and get a lottery pick.
Probably genius move by Krauss.
I don't know who they end up getting with that pick.
Maybe it is Scotty.
No, it's not Scotty that year, I don't think.
I don't know who it is, but they end up getting not a lottery pick, but they get a better pick because they barely eeked into the playoffs, right?
They got that eighth seed with 30 fucking wins.
They went 30 and 52.
That being said, Jordan makes playoffs.
This is what's really interesting.
What he basically said to the coach was, he goes, yo, just put me in at the most important times of the game, and I'm going to try to eke out victories.
And I'm just going to go ham For those seven minutes at a time or 10 minutes at a time or whatever the fuck it is, right?
When I was a Knicks fan and the Bulls were just destroying my Knicks, the most terrifying point of the game was eight minutes left in the fourth quarter.
Jordan would rest at the end of the third and that rest would continue into the fourth and then he would come out at around eight minutes left in the fourth quarter and then he would just go berserk.
Yeah.
And I remember being fearful.
It didn't matter how much we were up when Jordan enters the game.
He can do whatever the fuck he wants and you're just trying to survive for eight minutes.
And I'm watching this documentary.
I'm going to go, oh, that's where he learned how to do it.
He had seven minutes left.
He said, put me out in the most important time during the games and I'm going to attack, attack, attack, attack relentlessly.
I'm going to attack relentlessly and I'm going to try to get our team to win.
And I was like, oh my fucking God, that's where he learned it.
That's where he learned the seven-minute nonstop.
Put up as many fucking points as you possibly can.
Not saying he didn't know how to score already, but that's where he learned the time is now.
This is the only time I have to affect the game, and I'm going to do it in this short, this short spurt.
And I don't give a fuck if my teammates don't touch the rock.
This is time for me to touch a rock.
And I was like, oh, that's why you fucking destroyed my Knicks over and over again.
You know, what's crazy is we sleep on.
You know, he's like one of the most athletic players, whatever.
He's in the same way LeBron is a physical freak.
Yes.
Jordan is right there.
Like there was a highlight they showed of him at UNC where his head hits the backboard when he blocked somebody's shot.
That's fucking insane.
There was a shot they showed specifically when they're talking about how powerful he was where he's just stretching and you look at his quadriceps and you're like, what the fuck is that?
Is that a horse?
It's a physical muscle.
Yeah, it's legit like looking at a horse, dog.
Yeah, and it's so rare that people that are like are that physically gifted learn the other intangibles of the game.
Yeah.
That's the thing that's like, that's crazy, right?
It's because like, you know, oftentimes like great shooters never learn how to dribble because you don't need to.
Why would I need to dribble and get to the basket if I could just pull up and shoot?
I'm good.
Great dribblers never learn how to shoot.
Why would I need to learn how to shoot if I could just cross you up and get to the basket?
He's the cross section of both of those things.
He's a guy who developed an amazing mid-range jump shot because that was the shot of the time.
And he could get to the basket at will.
He was unstoppable, like unstoppable force.
And he was met with like an unstoppable coaching force in Phil, who was not only genius with the X and O's, but learned how to like motivate them.
Like, I thought it was so fucking brilliant that Phil found a way to create a chip on their shoulder after they had won with Jordan five straight championships.
Yeah.
Not five straight, because I guess Jordan came back halfway through that one season, but they won three.
Then Jordan comes back and they win two more.
And they already have the greatest team ever, 72 and 10.
They already have greatest team ever, right?
You have no motivation at that point in time.
Yeah.
You've already won enough.
Like, yeah, Jordan's motivated, but everybody's like, yeah, we're used to winning.
I did, I accomplished my dream.
I have money.
I have success.
I have all these things.
And Phil finds a way to create a chip on their shoulder.
Like, they're the underdogs.
Again, people are going to the season like, of course, they're going to win.
I mean, it's Michael Jordan.
Whatever team Michael Jordan's on is going to win the fucking championship.
That's how it works.
And he constructs this device, the last dance.
There are bad guys out there.
The organization doesn't want us to win.
The GM doesn't want us to win.
The owner doesn't want us to win.
They're going to blow us all up.
So let's take them down.
Let's shove this in their fucking face.
This is our last chance to win.
Let's go out winners.
And he chose the word dance specifically.
Why?
Because a dance doesn't work if everybody's not on the same page.
Even if it's two people, if we're not both in sync and in step, the dance falls apart.
This is a dance.
This is a team.
All of us need to be on board, moving in step.
That's how we accomplish our goal.
I don't know if he said that in the doc, but I think he might have mentioned it.
But the word dance was like, that was a very specific word.
Criticisms.
I feel like I need to watch it again because the first time I'm literally just kind of like scared watching the fucking thing.
Like Jordan's a killer that's going to jump through the screen.
And it's just so intense.
And like, I've been waiting for this for so long.
Yeah.
And so I didn't like grab on to any real criticism that I have.
What was yours?
I don't like that it jumps around in timeline.
The timeline thing.
Actually, yeah, that was a little bit annoying.
Don't like the timeline thing.
Now, I can understand it because I know what happened and I existed during these times.
If you don't know Jordan, like my girl has no fucking clue what's going on, right?
97, 91.
Like these people aren't really aging, so you can't really tell based on how they look.
Like I could, maybe I look at Jordan's hair and I go, okay, he doesn't have hair in his hand.
I do think, though, for a documentary, you kind of need to draw people in with, oh, we're winning and then go back and forth.
I think like the OJ timeline.
I think, I don't think it went chronologically.
In my opinion, nope.
Also, my other biggest criticism, and they tie together, is I don't give a fuck about the Bulls.
I don't give a fuck about any other player.
I don't give a fuck about Scotty.
I don't give a fuck about Paxson.
I don't give a fuck about Bill Wennington.
I don't give a fuck about none of these motherfuckers, right?
I don't care about Rodman's story.
I don't care about any of their fucking stories.
What I wanted, I feel a little bit bamboozled.
I don't want a Bulls documentary.
I don't even care about your last one.
I don't want to see a Bulls documentary.
I thought it was Jordan Doc.
Everybody's calling it the Jordan Doc.
I did too.
We called it the Jordan Doc.
He's all over it, right?
Jordan agreed on the footage.
Jordan, Jordan, Jordan, right?
What I want is the life work of Michael Jordan.
I want you to start, and I don't care if it's 40 episodes.
I want you to start in college, and I want you to take me from college to the final season.
Don't talk about the Wizards, but I want you to take me that final fucking shot that he hits to seal it.
Game six.
Yeah.
Game six against the Jazz.
Give me that.
And also, we forget because the shot is so like iconic.
Yeah.
He ripped Carl Malone.
Oh, of course.
And then dribbled it down the court and hit the game.
Of course.
Absolutely.
Like the D.
He also made the defensive play.
It was LeBron's block and the shot.
It was the stop and the shot.
That's why he's the GOAT because he's both of you.
But like the fact that I got to listen to a storyline about Dennis Roddy.
Don't get me wrong.
It's going to be entertaining.
It's going to be great.
But for me, I want a box set of Michael Jordan that I can hand to my kid and go, hey, this is the greatest player of all time.
If you want to know why, just pop that in, watch this for about 40 hours, and you'll get a good idea of what's going on.
I hope Jordan in 15, 20 years, one of the least guy we're talking about is the greatest.
I hope he just says, you know what?
Let's just talk about me and my life for 20 episodes.
And I want you all to understand what's going on here.
Because I could really give a fuck about the Bulls GM and present.
Like those things can be storylines within the Jordan story, but I don't care about Jerry Reinsdorf or Jerry Kraus and his stupid fucking eye.
I don't care about him at all, right?
What I do care about is Michael fucking Jordan and these other people can intersect his life.
But let me just follow this Jordan story.
If you don't talk about the season where he averaged 37 points, like I need just that.
Remember he averaged 37 fucking points?
I need only that.
What is happening in the league?
What are people saying around the world?
What are teams saying as they're playing him?
You averaged 37 points a fucking game.
If you don't give me something on just that season, I'm going to be upset.
Jordan hasn't been super transparent.
I knew this was a Bulls documentary going on.
I thought they actually did a good job of making it 50% about Jordan.
Like the Scotty Pippen backstory is five minutes.
Yeah.
Let's get the fuck out of here.
Jordan, we just keep going back to it, back to it, back to it.
I think they do a good job of saying, hey, we followed the whole team with cameras.
The whole team, there was a lot of drama.
But it's about this guy.
No one cares about your whole team.
Everything else is B line.
But they make the A line, Jordan.
Yeah.
Which I think is fine.
One thing I do want to know, I want to know the transition from Jordan as a rookie who doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, doesn't know what to do in this situation, doesn't go out, country kid, to the maniacal fucking killer who will excess and gamble and drink and fuck everybody.
I'm curious to know what that evolution was and if it was necessary for him to be great because part of me thinks it might be.
Yeah, he just needs to blow off steam.
And there's like his Tim Grover, his trainer, wrote a book and he talks about how like all these guys have a dark side and you got to tap into that dark side to be great.
Tiger, Jordan, like the greatest of the great have a dark side and they tap into it.
And I'm psychologically curious about that and like what is that transformation?
Walk me like walk me through what you're thinking at each stage as you're like, did you gradually get into like, I'll drink a little bit.
I'll go out a little bit.
I want to see it too.
Because seven years later in 92.
He's a savage.
Dude, he's gambling.
He's drinking.
He's fucking.
Remember the Olympics?
Magic is like, I don't know how this guy never sleeps.
We go out.
We party all night.
And then he just comes and fucking shows up earliest to practice.
Like, I don't get it.
Yeah.
And I'm curious to know that shift because he seems like the sweetest kid.
Yeah.
The letter he wrote his mom is adorable.
Yeah.
Just to fucking, hey, mom, God will bless you.
I love you.
Yeah.
Just like a fucking, and he's still the best player in the country.
Yeah.
And I'm curious to know, is that necessary?
What was that just in general?
I wonder if it's because of the pressure.
Like now you have the entire league depending on you.
You are the face of the league.
And now it's not just nationally, it's internationally.
And now NBA is a legitimate sport that America cares about and the world cares about.
And I wonder if you need to blow off that scene because throughout his career, as far as we're concerned, Jordan was incredibly professional.
Like every time he's talking to reporters, I thought this was unbelievable.
Every single time, right after they win a championship, they ask him, you know, there's talks about blowing up the team and these kind of things.
And he has a professional response about it.
You would think that he would go, motherfucker, I just won.
Can I enjoy this victory?
Nope.
He was on his P's and Q's.
This guy was so sharp, so fucking eloquent and so composed in every moment of his life.
I think the cost of that is you need to blow off steam someway.
And maybe it's gambling, maybe it's fucking bitches, maybe he's getting a little drunk, but you need to.
It's like, I think there's a reason why every time we see Dave Chappelle, he's shit-faced.
Like, I've never seen Dave Chappelle sober.
Yeah.
And I think the cost of being Dave Chappelle is paid through numbing that pressure with either weed or alcohol or smoking cigarettes non-stop.
Like, I think that's what it is, man.
I really think when you have that much fucking pressure, dude.
Yeah, I'm just curious to know because that motherfucker is a killer.
I want to know.
I want him to talk about emptying the tank.
Like, there are guys that empty the tank.
Few people know, like, women who have kids understand what it is to, like, use every single ounce of your being to like go through pregnancy and like push out a child, right?
Yeah.
They understand what it is to empty the tank and you get a fucking human being.
And I think certain athletes can empty the tank.
Kobe could empty the fucking tank.
Jordan, I think, was the epitome of empty.
Ali, empty the tank, right?
LeBron can do it.
No.
I think he can.
I think game seven against the Celtics, where he played all 48, he can do it on occasion.
I think game seven against the Celtic.
Oh, yeah, Occasionally, yeah, it can happen.
Emptying the Tank Completely00:03:27
It's not a consistent thing.
Whatever I want to embed.
Yeah, he can tap into it when he wants to.
Yeah, I think, yeah, or he might be afraid to.
Like the Cab season when his mom was getting stroked out by Delante West.
He couldn't empty the tank, right?
Delante emptied his, right?
But Jordan was struggling, right?
Not Jordan, but LeBron was struggling, right?
I wonder, I want to know the cost of emptying the tank.
Like, I want to hear Jordan go, like, every time you empty the tank, you lose a little bit of that tank for good.
Like, every time you go down to zero on the power bar, the power bar shrinks a little as well.
Like, I wonder, like, how many Tour de Frances can you fucking do?
You know how you hear, like, people go, every Tour de France you do takes a little away from your life.
I haven't heard that.
Yeah, they say, like, you lose years of your life doing a Tour de France, right?
Now, who the fuck knows?
Like, you also gain years of your life because you're in such great shape that you're going to be able to deal with these things.
It doesn't matter.
But I'm curious, like, what does it feel like to completely empty the tank?
And like, what is the cost of that long term?
I think we're seeing the cost.
I mean, he looks terrible.
He fucking looks shit.
Like, his eyes look horrible.
Always looked like jaundiced, like, yellow.
Why the yellow?
Yeah.
I don't know.
I can't explain that.
I don't know what the fuck that is.
Because I thought it was Jaundice, but it's like, nah, he's still alive.
His liver is conditioned.
Like, he's fine.
He seems like he's fine, but there's something going on.
And he's taking care of that drink.
That drink is tall and it is brown liquor.
And throughout the interview, that shit goes down.
Oh, okay.
I was like, filling it up.
I thought it was just always full.
Nah, I just thought it was a good thing.
There's a shit low as fuck.
Yeah, I was looking at that shit.
But I'm just curious about that.
Like, guys, really can fucking empty the tank.
Because I remember even like playing ball growing up.
Like, I always felt like I could give more than you.
You know what I mean?
Like, I was just willing to just give more.
I'll sacrifice more.
I'll be more exhausted.
I'll do whatever it takes until like to quit.
Like, I thought I could, that's something I could control.
Right.
And I want to know the extreme of that.
Yeah.
Like, what is it like when you have nothing?
Yeah.
Like, when people run marathons and shit to me, it was never impressive.
Right.
Because I was like, all right, it hurts.
All right.
So it just hurts.
And then, you know, like, I don't know.
Like, my girl runs and my dad run.
But like, I'm like, all right, so you're in pain.
Like, you deal with that.
It's not that impressive.
It's not.
Like, you just deal with it.
Like, the only ones I'm impressed by are the ones who like make good time running a marathon.
I'm only impressed by the swimming one.
Oh, the triple.
That shit.
Yeah.
To Iron Man, where you do all three?
Yeah, yeah, that should have been.
Spiking stupid.
You get to sit.
Swimming is the one that impresses me.
Because if you stop, you die.
Oh, okay.
I see your point.
You could drown.
Like, when you stop running, now you're standing.
Right?
Like, the second you stop running, you're chilling.
Yeah.
But swimming, you could die.
So that one is always super impressive, especially when they're open ocean.
That one, I'm like, oh, boy, you can't empty the tank swimming.
You cannot do it.
The cost of emptying the tank swimming is death.
You can empty the tank running.
You see motherfuckers stop running and they fall down and there's nothing left.
I need Jordan to explain that.
Players Who Need No Touches00:08:03
And when he emptied it the most, who he gave everything to.
Was it the Pistons?
Like, who did he have to dig the deepest to be?
They might talk about, because in this year, Bill Simmons wrote about it back when he was with ESPN years ago.
And I always remember he talked about game seven against the Pacers.
I'm pretty sure him and Scotty, he's like, you just looked at them.
They had nothing to play for, but they're exhausted.
Like their hands are on their knees, which you almost never saw from Jordan just looking wiped out.
And the only reason they had to win was we just can't lose.
There's nothing.
We got five championships.
And that might have been a game.
And it'll get talked about throughout this thing.
So I'm curious to know if he's, if he did feel like he emptied the tank.
If he did, is he willing to admit it?
Did he feel like, though, this is game seven in Indiana?
Like, this ain't necessary.
I'm pretty sure it's Indiana.
This ain't necessarily going our way.
I don't think it was at home.
But like, I'm curious to know if that was a game where he was like, I had to fucking give everything, man.
I just hope we learn more about it.
Yeah.
I want to know what's going on with Phil Jackson because they kind of just brush over that.
It's like, yo, this is your last season.
Why?
Phil offers very little.
That was one thing I noticed.
Phil offers very little in his confessional.
Yeah.
He not.
That's like one criticism, actually.
Now that I'm thinking about it, I remember being like, Phil, it's like you're intentionally not giving us much.
Phil is an interesting dude, and he is Phil with fucking ego, man.
Phil's got a lot of ego.
I mean, that's why he got ran out of New York.
And I respect Phil's decision, but he basically was like, I make the decisions, not Dolan for the Knicks.
And Dolan was like, no, my spies make the decisions.
Steve Mills, who's going to be forced to work with you, is going to really make decisions.
He's just going to be here.
And he was like, I'm out.
You choose me or Mello.
I'm out.
And this happened to him as well with the Bulls.
Right?
He got his ego.
Krauss, I guess, wanted him maybe to do certain things, trade certain players, make certain moves, kiss the ring.
He didn't want that shit to happen.
And I respect it.
I hope they explain that.
That's what I would do.
But Phil is.
He's like, how do you break up?
The best team.
Well, here's the thing that people don't realize, right?
It's like the NBA is changing, right?
Positions are starting to evolve a little bit.
You're getting a Scotty Pippen type of guy who's like long, right?
And kind of positionless.
Kind of positionless, right?
But you also have to look at the other people.
Like, who was their point guard?
Ron Harper.
Ron Harper.
Ron Harper was long.
So Krauss is redefining basketball.
I know it seems like I'm stroking Kraus and I'm doing it a little bit extra because everybody's going to ship so much on Krauss.
So I'm trying to like balance a little bit.
But like Ron Harper was what, six?
6'4, I think.
6'4, probably?
Maybe a 6', maybe 6'5, but like legit kind of tall, long, right?
The tall white guys that they would get, right?
The Luke Longleys, the Bill Wennington, I think his name is.
Bill Wennington, Bill Cartwright, I think.
And Bill Cartwright, right?
Like they've kind of found a way to use useless tall guys.
They traded Oakley for Cartwright.
Yeah.
But the kind of unskilled tall guys, but they could kind of pass the ball.
They were like skilled, but just weren't that good.
They figured that out before any other team in the league figured it out.
And that was a huge advantage because it worked perfectly in the triangle.
Once other teams started to figure out, it was easier to compete with them.
See, I was also going to ask you, do you think the triangle, do you think they got the personnel to fit the triangle?
Because Ryan Shaw was the point guard in LA.
Point guard isn't incredibly important in the triangle, but I do think you need to be able to defend longer.
The passing big man is important in the triangle because they'll have the ball.
You know who's a great passer?
Shaq.
Yeah.
Underrated passer, right?
So the passing big one with decent ball handling so they could move because it was a pivotal position.
But the big point guard was great for defensive purposes too.
Now you don't have some like 5'11, 6-foot point guard who's good at like dribbling and can like create offense.
No, no, the offense can be created by Mike and we're gonna pass the ball around here.
But now I got another 6'4.
I got the most skilled player in the NBA.
I needed to be able to defend anybody.
Exactly.
Switch.
I dare you to switch.
Now you got Ron Harper on you.
Before you had a guy 6'6, now you got a guy 6'5 ⁇ .
Good luck.
When you switch and John Stockton's on you, bully ball.
Not saying John Stockton wasn't a great defender, but still, it was really brilliant what Phil did.
And I was thinking, I was like, why did he know how to use these tall guys who were kind of skillless, if you will?
And then I realized, oh, shit, that's what Phil was.
God bless his soul when he played for the Knicks and he won them championships.
He was the tall, kind of useless guy.
Long as fuck.
Long as fuck.
Scrappy could defend rebound.
You know who else could do that?
Every big man he ever had.
And Dennis Robman.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dude, putting that together called Phil or Krause, but getting a guy on that team who was going to try his fucking hardest, rebound, defend his ass off, but didn't need touches.
Yeah.
I mean, that is massive.
Yeah.
Because how are you going to compete with another guy who needs them touches?
Oh, yeah.
Charles Barkley, if he was on the team, I need my touches.
I need touches.
I need touches.
I'm a star.
Scotty Pippen was great because he didn't need his touches.
And he got some when he was.
He'll get his touches.
Yeah.
But he doesn't need his touches.
He trusts.
He trusts, I will get my touches.
This is the guy.
My job is to help the guy.
Yeah.
And that's fucking, that's an incredible talent to have in and of itself.
And everybody, to your credit, to what you were saying, everybody on that organization that realized this is the guy, Jordan's the guy, and my job is to help the guy succeeded.
That's exactly what I was going to say.
The one guy who didn't realize that is the one who ends up blowing it up.
But at the end of the day, you need a Jordan for success.
Now, that Jordan can be Kobe.
It could be Kawhi, but you need that to get to the fucking promised land.
And the guys on that team that were willing to sacrifice their ego, and there were moments where they didn't.
Pippen came out, right?
He's like, no, I want my contract.
I'm going to get my surgery.
He had his ego flare.
He tried, you know, he acted up, et cetera.
But ultimately, he realized Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan.
Yeah.
And this is not possible without Michael Jordan.
You know, it's also interesting.
I remember that little, this little video clip you see all the time when Jordan's, there's rumors he's thinking about coming back, and then Pippin's on the bench at a Bulls game, and he just points to the camera and then lifts up his shoe and then points in the jump man icon and then does like a come come hither motion, like come back, Jordan.
This is Jordan sat out for a year.
Second year, there's rumors Jordan might be coming back.
Jordan might be coming back.
Pippen looks at the camera during a game, says, Jordan, come back.
He always knew.
He was always willing to swallow the ego and say, yo, I'm the guy right now, but we're not winning.
Jordan, come back.
I want to win.
Is that credit to Pippen for having some humility?
Or is that credit to Jordan for being so great that even the most alpha males of alpha males check their own ego around him?
I think it's a credit to Pippen because at that point, I think Jordan has that ability, but at that point, Jordan is gone.
You could just not say anything.
But Pippin is like, no, I want to win.
There's no reason to defer to a guy's ego if he's nowhere in the vicinity.
Yeah.
He made it a point to say, hey, come back.
I'm your, I'm still, that's a big like.
Isn't that Jordan's greatness?
That is Jordan's greatness.
To make somebody say, hey, I need you.
Yeah.
But it also takes greatness.
It takes ego.
It's being swallowed.
And that is a form of greatness to say, yo, you know what?
Yeah.
This is the guy and I need this guy.
Yeah.
No, I agree with you there.
I agree with you there.
Scotty was able to swallow it.
Scotty had a GM's, what the ego GM should have.
Yeah, 100%.
But Jordan, yeah, Scotty was able to swallow it.
But Jordan did have such greatness that no matter what team he was on, whenever he was playing, eventually everyone fell in line.
There wasn't much insubordination with Jordan, right?
Highbrow Cubs Jokes00:02:19
It was like a couple weeks.
He would establish dominance and everybody knew that was in that room, this is the greatest player, and I need to assist him in winning.
Another thing to that point, and this is country-ass Jordan, still had that mentality.
He talked about his rookie year with the Bulls.
He said, I needed to find out in the first couple of weeks who the leader was and then go after him.
And it was like, yo, you were a fucking killer.
Even as a country-ass backward-ass dude that just didn't know nothing, I'm still the guy.
I need to find out who's the guy and then how do I take his spot?
I love how they like position him as like this country backward ass dude.
It's like both of his parents were professionals.
They were making good money.
He went to an elite institution.
Yeah, he's not an idiot, but just like an idiot by any means.
I took him from Brooklyn.
I took him as naive, as like he sheltered a bit.
So, what's interesting to me is that, did you notice his voice change?
Yeah, Jordan, when he's first interviewed, I think it's in North Carolina, he sounds like, I don't know, he's just kind of his voice is like super, how would you describe it?
Well, I mean, he sounded more country, like a little officer.
He's a country and a bit more innocent.
Yeah, country.
And his voice hadn't fully dropped yet, like whatever.
Within a few years, he had polished up his voice.
It was professional, media trained.
And that takes intelligence to understand what comes with that.
There is to go, you know what?
In order for me to communicate what I want to communicate, but also in order for me to get the most market share I could possibly get and be the most friendly to advertisers and lead an organization, I need to speak a certain way.
Yeah.
If I'm out here cussing, if I'm out here speaking with like southern slang, all that kind of stuff like that, I might scare off some advertisers.
I might scare off these people.
Or if I want to lead the world in this new sport, I will assume that position.
Yeah.
Like when he was in front of the camera, he was making jokes, but they were like highbrow sarcasm, like the joke about the Cubs.
He goes, oh, yeah.
What was the joke about the Cubs?
The Cubs have been rebuilding for 42 years.
Cubs have been rebuilding for 42 years.
Highbrow sarcastic joke.
When he was not on camera, if you will, just short fat jokes with Krauss.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, he knew.
He could code switch, if you will.
Growing Five Inches Fast00:02:05
He could go from corporate Jordan to ball busting on the courts.
It was just, it was, it was great.
I'm looking for the next episode.
I hope they don't focus too much on Dennis Rodman, his fucking makeup and shit.
I could care less.
I really could care less.
He's going to get a story.
Yeah.
I got to know that story too, son.
That's careful.
It's weird, but I don't care.
Just give me Jordan.
I don't care about anything else.
I'm not wearing Rodman sneakers to this day.
You know what I mean?
Everybody wears fucking makeup now.
Let's get Jordan in there.
If you have to guess, why is Rodman the way he is?
Oh, Rodman grew up fucked up.
Yeah, but I mean, like, what do you think is the biggest moment, like the traumatic moment?
I think he talks about no father really affecting him.
Oh, yeah.
He's from Dallas.
I'm thinking he got diddled as a kid.
Maybe.
Quite possibly.
He's a big one to diddle.
Oh, yeah.
It's a big kid to diddle.
Before he grew.
But even they, you got to get him real young because they even grow fast.
Like NBA players are usually tall when they're young.
Son, when Jordan's like, oh, yeah, no, he's shot up by what I think like five inches.
I'm like, why hasn't that happened to me?
Bro, Pippin grew from Pippin grew in college, yo.
Yeah, I know.
Five inches in one year.
I think it was Pippin.
What?
Growth hormones?
No, I mean, like, that's he's sharing food with 12 of their kids.
And, you know, a poor family in Arkansas.
He goes to university and he's probably eating like full meals of like protein and like good food for the first time in his life.
And you, I mean, that happened to my brother.
My brother went to a rehab when he was 17 years old, grew five inches.
He was eating fucking cereal and like pasta every single night when he was with us because my parents don't cook.
They just order in bullshit.
And he goes and eats vegetables for the first like a straight year.
He grows five inches in a fucking year at 17 years old or 18 years old.
Food changes shit.
Scotty Pippen, if he probably ate good shit his entire life, would be 7-2.
Like he grew five inches at 18 and then another few inches after that.
If he ate good shit his whole life, forget it.
Food Changes Everything00:00:38
Fuck, man.
Dude, why do you think they give such bad food to the ghetto?
They won't want y'all to be too tall.
Son, I see.
I ain't have vegetables.
They give y'all Sour Patch kids.
They give y'all Brussels sprouts.
Forget it.
Fucking star crunching zebra cakes.
Those slacks.
You think feeding crack does ghetto is the thing keeping y'all down?
Frosted flakes, motherfucker.
Sugar ain't nothing but crack in a sweeter form, really.
Anyway, man, yeah, we just wanted to do a little review of that.
We'll do another one next Monday.
Appreciate y'all, man.
Keep it tight, and let's look forward to more Jordan and not more anyone else.