Andrew Callaghan details his HBO documentary "This Place Rules," exposing the Jan 6 insurrection as a movement of entitled hobbyists rather than organized fascists, featuring figures like Stuart Rhodes and QAnon families. He contrasts brainwashed victims with cultural warriors like Matt Walsh, analyzing how social media and suburbanization fuel polarization. The discussion critiques the "moving the goalpost" tactic in culture wars, citing the Tori Lanez case and Dave Todoschini's deflection of crimes onto celebrities. Ultimately, the episode argues that right-wing hypocrisy ignores actual sex trafficking while promoting figures like Andrew Tate, suggesting genuine connection is lost to performative outrage. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Material Evidence and Echo Chambers00:15:27
On the East Coast.
Do you think the main is too hot?
Who does that?
Camera-wise, but I don't know.
It's fine.
It's fine.
You have a phone charger I can plug into real quick.
Yeah, we have one over here.
Also, yeah, just make sure you're speaking to the microphone.
You already know.
You just got to not have your phone on you, though.
Is that fine?
Yeah, it's fine.
All right.
Well, we kidnapped you anyway.
Oh, you want to know something fucking crazy?
What?
Oh, I'm going to save it.
I'm going to save it.
We're rolling already.
Oh, yeah, we've been rolling.
Hey, check this out.
Whatever.
The only guest who's on the original incarnation of the podcast and the new incarnation.
No, Ludwig's been on as well.
Well, Ludwig doesn't.
He sucks.
And Austin has been on as well.
Both those people track.
They do suck.
You're like the only non-like Twitch streamer in our immediate friend group person that's been on both.
I'm glad to break some diversity, man.
Yeah.
So I'm like a real veteran to the fear and malding.
Yeah, you have like, we're going to issue you a challenge coin.
I mean, I guess that's like, that's what the Chopo boys say.
So I don't want to yank it from them too hard.
So you had a podcast come out last night at 11.
Not a podcast.
Or fucking.
You had an A24.
I just woke up.
I dropped my new podcast.
I dropped my podcast.
Okay.
So Andrew Callahan of Channel 5 is here in the building, ladies and gentlemen.
One of the most prestigious guests of all time.
Good friend of mine.
Known him for many years.
Yep.
Brilliant.
Brilliant interviewer.
Just, you know, Hunter S. Thompson keeping his legacy alive.
You know what it is.
We have a lot to talk about because Andrew just dropped his A24 Absolutely Productions HBO.
Absolutely, right?
Yep, yep.
Yeah.
HBO documentary last night.
Yeah.
And I watched it this morning and oh boy.
You liked it?
I loved it.
It was, of course, I liked it.
What do you mean?
I liked it when you were digging around and going to like book reveals and stuff, like book releases and stuff.
So this was a, I wouldn't say higher budget, I guess, production.
It was like literally the same, but it was great.
It was just a longer video.
I'm glad you liked it.
You guys were the first people I'm speaking to IRL after the movie dropped.
So it's kind of cool.
Oh, that's crazy.
I've just been at my house pretty much alone since it came out.
Yeah.
You have nerves about it?
Not really, but like I'm definitely eager to see the reviews, like what the top critics have to say about it because I've never okay.
Well, that's why you're here.
I mean, you're at 824.
You're good, bro.
A24 gets a lot.
Like, I mean, they release a lot of weird shit and critics are always like, that A24 is very delicious.
Very artistic.
Yeah.
So what happened to the documentary is Will thought it was releasing tomorrow, so he hasn't seen it.
I was close.
People said it released at midnight, which is technically today.
Yeah, on the East Coast around midnight.
Yeah.
West Coast, we got it.
So I'm not that off.
Yeah.
No, you're getting it.
It's fine.
So what the documentary is about is Andrew's experiences with the crew running around leading up to January 6th.
Insurrection.
Yeah.
I would call it more of a riot.
Freedom.
Yeah.
Freedom rally.
Yeah.
Yeah, the freedom riot.
People ride.
Freedom riot is pretty good.
Yeah.
They saved our country.
Yeah.
No, I mean, literally, that's, you know, that's why Donald Trump is still president.
Everything's good.
You know, he's controlling Joe Brandon, which would technically make it so that it's Donald Trump's fault that we have such high inflation.
Right.
But we'll work that out.
He can't control everything from the shadows.
You know what's crazy is on January 5th, Stuart Rhodes, who's the leader of the Oath Keepers.
Yeah.
currently being charged.
He called me and was like, Andrew, man, you got to come to the Capitol.
Why?
He's like, it's going to go the fuck down tomorrow.
I just hope they start shooting so we can shoot back.
I love that.
That's like material evidence, I think.
Yeah, I didn't record the call.
You just released material evidence, but he's already charged.
He's already charged.
But I remember being like, what the fuck's going to happen tomorrow?
Yeah.
They didn't really bring the straps to the Capitol.
And Stuart famously is not very good at handling guns.
I mean, he shot himself in the eye.
That's why he has an eye patch?
That's why.
Oh, you didn't know this?
You got to be careful about eye patch touch talk, man.
Oh, I know.
Oh, God.
Oh, brother.
Another big boy with eye patches.
Stuart Rhodes used to, I believe, be a like a gun safety trainer, and he shot himself in the eye.
Jesus Christ.
If I'm not mistaken, he's a Nevada man, I believe.
You got to make sure the barrel's clear, dude.
He lives in Northern Nevada.
Let's think about that.
That's actually a really good question that brings up a really good question I want to ask you.
What do you think is the most Andrew Callahan Channel 5 state in America?
I feel like I've asked you this already, but.
It's got to be Florida.
I think Florida for like the early August No Breaks content when we're into like juggalos and crazy parties and spring break shit.
But I think now, dude, it's becoming like Arizona and California.
Yeah.
You know, especially Arizona.
I have my eyes on Arizona for the upcoming election cycle, dude, for sure.
I have a theory.
I think the warmer it gets due to climate change, which is a Chinese conspiracy and a hoax.
Yeah.
The warmer it gets in Arizona, the more people's brains are melting out.
Yeah, yeah.
Dude, the whole frontier is like lizard people brain rot.
Yeah.
Isn't there like a direct crime statistic with average temperature?
I think there is.
Billy Rave Brains, can you look that up?
I think there is a direct crime statistic.
He's looking up so much.
The warmer.
He still hasn't figured out the Stuart Rhodes thing.
He's like, what?
What was it?
Was I wrong?
Or was I right?
Yeah, he shot himself.
That's so sad, dude.
Yeah.
It's so funny.
Fuck, dude.
It's so funny.
He's just like, I mean, a gun safety instructor shooting himself in the eye and becoming like a gun totem libertarian.
I love that.
It's like, that's America.
I love that.
Yeah.
For me, the Oath Keepers were the one element that was missing from the documentary.
Yeah.
You know, so if I were to write about it, like, not in video form, I would talk about it.
Is that right?
I was communicating pretty extensively with Stuart and different Oath Keepers folks.
And those guys were almost more involved than the Proud Boys, I feel like.
But they all fell off the map after the sixth.
Like, I called Stuart Rhodes on January 7th, no answer.
Like, that was it.
Well, obviously.
You and I had this conversation a little bit with Ethan when you came on our other podcast.
And that's actually something that I think is like giving me a little bit of hope, I guess, is that the reality that once these things happen, like Charlottesville, I think, was delivered a blow to the ultra far-right, openly fascist, like Nazi movement in this country because you saw Nazis in the streets and you were like, oh, that sucks.
Like, I don't like that.
No, that's not for me.
That's what even racist Americans are like, nah, that's too much.
I don't like it.
That's weird.
You're gross.
Sales have never recovered.
Yeah.
Never, ever.
Yeah, they kind of took over the polo, too.
Like, the polo tees, like, what the fuck?
It's crazy how one incident like that can decimate an industry.
Like, after the Kobe crash, like, helicopter tourism is down like 500%.
Nobody wants to get fucking helicopters.
I mean, that's good, though.
I think that that's a good thing.
Me and our mutual friend Brace from Truanon have that same principle.
It's like, never get in a helicopter.
That's what Brace said?
Oh, Brace is number one helicopter over there.
He's always a great decision.
Yes.
Yes, he does.
Famously.
But I know what you're talking about.
Like, after the Capitol, you're saying it would never happen again.
You know what I mean?
That's one of the things that I explored in the latter half of the film.
It's like, you know, a lot of people thought that January 6th was going to be like the first in a series of similar actions.
Like there'd be a bunch of different riots and it would happen in every state capital.
And in January 20th, it would happen again and even more powerful.
But I think they flew so close to the sun, they just burned themselves, and that was it.
Well, as Brace also points out, which by the way, you know, you asked him to be on the documentary, but you didn't ask me to be on the army.
It's fine.
I guess we're picking favorites.
You also beat me in the streamies this year, so maybe that's.
Oh, yeah, that's true.
I did.
I mean, that's so irrelevant that I didn't even think about that at all.
But anyway.
He said as he polished his streamie.
Yeah, no, I was, that's like left my mind already.
You're going to win it next year anyway, or it doesn't matter.
But as Brace also correctly pointed out in the documentary, without revealing too much, because it's fucking awesome, and I highly recommend you guys watch it.
But if you're here, you probably already have.
Nothing happened because they had no purpose.
Like, they just, there is no like organized militant fascist movement outside of like the Atum Waffen guys, which usually operate within police and military.
Yeah.
Like that, that want to hit certain, you know, key parts of our like logistics or key parts of our infrastructure and like have a ideological goal behind it.
It was just like entitled people, which you stressed and pointed out perfectly, by the way, by showing the dichotomy between like, you know, black people protesting police brutality versus like QAnon freaks with disposable income.
Yeah.
It's a great comparison.
Yeah, no, you just like right down the fucking street.
You have this family.
And this is actually a YouTube video.
We can show parts of it.
HBO allowed us to show this the QAnon family video.
We'll show it really quickly.
You can also show the scene from the projects in Atlanta if you want.
Yeah.
It's on HBO's channel.
So yeah, show that real quick because I want Will to watch this.
I want Will to see this.
So.
Oh, I think I have watched this, but let's run it anyway.
Yeah, yeah, let's run it real quick.
I remember the Beyblades.
They seem a bit so deck and does horrible things to them.
Just like Hillary Clinton and Obama who made the virus.
The virus is man-made.
I felt so bad for this kid.
He's a product.
It's actually pretty bright and intelligent.
Yeah, no, both of them.
The little girl too.
All right.
Skip to the part where he just shows a QAnon drop, basically, which is, I believe, coming up.
Like, if you see it, Anderson Cooper.
Right around there.
Yeah, I think that's it.
Yeah, you can puzzle it.
147.
Like I said, what you have to do is you have to search on the normal media for someone who knows how to get into the darkstream media.
And another Trump is a little bit more.
Oh, wait, it's coming up.
It's coming up right now.
At this point, I had never actually gone on a Q board.
So for the first time, Jay's dad, Brandon, taking director's chair.
Real director.
Yeah.
The main Q board.
With your goofy ass fit, too.
I have to understand that he speaks in cryptic code.
There's actually a Q clock that you have to decipher all this stuff from.
So this is an actual Q drop.
Yep.
Anderson Cooper.
And you can see all the satanic artwork in the background, which is just troubling.
I mean, you have a man here getting burned alive while there's some sort of satanic boy going around in the trouble.
Yeah, absolutely.
These guys are.
Here, pause now.
Sacrifice.
Sacrifice.
Yeah, it's like, it's so perfect because, like, I mean, these guys are like hobbyists, right?
Yeah.
They're hobbyists.
Like, they are, not only is the cause that they're fighting for not necessarily just because they do want like a Christian nationalist fascist administration to like kill all the communists and people that they've declared pedophiles.
I think that guy in particular represents like a fraction of people who just the emotional pull of the Q mythology sucked him in.
Like I talked to him a little bit off camera and I was like, how did you get into this?
And it was when he heard about Disney being controlled by, you know, Satan-worshipping pedophiles who drank baby blood.
You know, as one does.
And them being a suburban, you know, white Georgia family, Disney's kind of the foundation of their household.
So him hearing that like fucking Pixar and Mickey Mouse was being controlled by the Danish.
One of my favorite things about everything you've always made, and we talked about this briefly the last time we sat down with you, is you have an incredible amount of empathy for everyone you speak to.
And I think it shows like the fact that you can find humanity in a family that saying and doing some pretty abhorrent things is for sure really noble.
And I think it gives you a different level to your content.
What would you say to people that are so kind of mad at groups of people like this?
Like, how do you find that empathy in a situation like this?
I'm trying to increase empathy toward groups of people like that.
And so I don't mean the people who create Q people.
Those people are pieces of shit.
People with the nihilistic groups are going to be a lot of people who talk about people caught in the people who fall into informational echo chambers and just get fucking ramped up.
And before they know it, they're spewing shit like that on the street with their kid.
That's a sad thing.
Those people aren't evil.
They're not particularly hateful or racist.
They're just in that bubble.
I wouldn't say they're not particularly, some of them are, but I do think, I'll take it one step further.
I do think that that hatefulness also still comes from social conditioning.
They're products of the environment that they grew up in.
It's like entirely almost out of our hands.
And it's a journey for everyone to basically go through so they can unlearn that shit and not be an asshole.
I think Q in particular, I mean, a lot of those people aren't super hateful because it preys upon people's emotions because it's all about kids.
So people with kids, older folks, they can't believe what they're reading about.
Also, we grew up on the internet.
We were exposed to hundreds of snuff films, cartel execution videos, the most gnarly gore ever.
A lot of these older people just got on the internet about 10 years ago.
They've never read or seen horrible shit.
So even just a picture of a dead baby with like, you know, Hillary Clinton's face near it.
They're just like, oh my God.
They're actually traumatized on like a micro level by imagery.
So a lot of, I think what QAnon propaganda is, is traumatizing old people with like shocking images on Facebook and shit.
Interesting.
Yeah.
And once you, and what, once you, you know, once you believe it, you're like, well, that's it.
I mean, they're, they're eating babies, so we got to stop that.
That's the worst thing.
If you truly believe that, that is the worst thing that could possibly happen.
Of course, you're going to do everything you can to stop it.
But there's also a secondary component there, the breadcrumbs.
They're bakers, right?
That's what QAnon supporters call themselves.
And they're following breadcrumbs, right?
And I think that there is an interactive detective game component associated with it as well that makes it so captivating for a lot of these people who have some level of disposable income in many instances and also a lot of fucking free time.
I don't know how.
I don't know how.
One thing I never understand when I'm watching like reality TV or when I'm watching stuff like this, I'm always like, how the fuck do these dudes make ends meet?
Yeah, I think the same thing.
It's like astrology for like Trump moms, you know, just connecting the dots.
But there was this one scene that we had to leave out just to cut time with Brandon, who's the father of the Spencer family, where he was using something called a geometry, geometra calculator or something.
And he was going to Trump's Twitter and every word that was capitalized in all of Trump's tweets, he would take the capital letter of every word that was capitalized in Trump's tweets, put them in a calculator to do some sort of subtractive addition with the letters and numerology.
And it would randomize and create sentences like war begins tomorrow.
And he would be like, you see, this is what he meant to say.
It's like, so Kofei, obviously, like his famous typo to them that they have, that's a heated debate point.
It's a big point of contention.
Cultural Drain and Astrology00:03:43
What did he mean?
That's schizophrenia.
And I mean it.
Like, I'm not saying like, lol, that guy's schizo.
That is one of the symptoms of schizophrenia is like these numerical associations.
It's also something that's like super old school.
Like back in the day, people used to do this with like Bible verses and shit.
And they still do it with Bible verses and shit.
But now they also do it with like, you know, looking at shapes and colors on the Chipotle Back.
There's something just so funny about people believing that like Trump is like a wind talker and that he like has the effort to go through.
Yeah, like it's all that.
Scramble his tweets.
Everybody's going to think I'm saying coffee, but what I'm really saying, I'm giving coordinates to my bunker.
It is wild to consider that he cares about anything, like even for a brief moment, anything outside of himself.
Like that, that's insane.
But going back to what you said, Will, about the empathy question is, you know, why do I try to have so much empathy for people like this?
It's because this is a serious problem.
And the first thing we need to figure out is why this is happening and how this is happening on like a programming level.
Because I would say at that time, I don't know about now, but there were like tens of millions of Americans who were completely engulfed in the Q storm and everything like that for like six months, dude.
COVID, dude.
Oh, I mean, that's what happened specifically instead of slam ducking on these people and trying to make them feel small by catching them in a contradiction.
We actually have to figure out how the fuck are these people thinking this?
I think people are still fully embroiled in these things.
I just think there isn't the crushing pressure of an election and COVID that basically like a cyst brought all this to the surface.
But what was cool about that?
Absolutely.
I'm going to spoil the documentary a little bit.
We catch up with the Q family after January 6th.
Actually, after December, January 20th, which was the inauguration of Joe Biden.
And at that point, it was like the storm or whatever, the mass arrest event wherein Trump mobilizes the military to arrest the members of the state.
When that didn't happen, Jaden, the youngest kid in the Spencer family, I caught up with him and he was like, yeah, Q is bullshit.
Yeah.
It completely devastated my family, consumed all of my dad's time.
The Beyblade kid?
Yeah.
Yeah.
He went clear because he was like, there's no fucking storm.
But also, again, he's a kid.
So he has like a robust imagination.
He has a lot to look forward to in his life.
If you want to examine his technically quote-unquote material conditions in comparison to his father's and like where, like what kind of life experiences that led his dad to like becoming a QAnon guy.
Even the dad was saying some skeptical things.
By the end, by the end of it.
But he still believed.
It's kind of like when I went to the Q conference, I was like, what was the point?
He was like, the storm was the friends we made along the way.
No, no, they're literally huge components.
The storm is like us kicking it right now, man.
Dude, that's literally.
I need to get a shirt that says that.
The storm was the friends.
No, that's a gigantic component of this is the social isolation that people feel that we no longer have that is a product of our living quarters, our living spaces, a product of social media.
But the way that like even civil engineering, like even city design, the way that it's designed in the United States of America has contributed to this problem in dramatic ways.
Do you mean like the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex, like endless expanses of bland suburbs?
Yes.
That is 1 million percent a gigantic problem because we do not have any like urbanization.
And when you don't have that, when you don't have like small towns basically that like where you have shops and you have like a such a city planning slut.
Firearm Identity and Suburban Isolation00:02:54
No, but it's true.
It's like when you're in Amsterdam and he saw people biking, he was like, oh, this is.
Yeah, dude.
Oh, yeah.
But that changes your outlook and that changes your political philosophy even in dramatic ways.
Like it's a, it's a, it's a byproduct, but um, To me, it all connects to like white flight and like what I call like the like cultural drain, particularly of white Americans that happened, you know, whenever after in the 60s and 70s after the second great migration, when like tons, millions of white Americans to flee living alongside black people from busting, especially in Boston, New York, Philly, in massive numbers went out to the bland country and started building these sort of shitty suburban homes.
And they were basically sapped of all the culture that they had inherited from their forefathers who had came from Europe, who no doubt had some cultural swag.
You know what I'm saying?
But like you can just see like all the European white ethnic groups just became white in like 10 fucking years because of suburbanization.
So they're living in this culturalist, bland, bizarre consumer society.
Yeah, NASCAR.
Which is precisely why the only cultural signifiers that we have now are products that we consume.
People on the left do it.
Liberals especially do it like with don't watch that movie.
That movie's bad.
That movie has a bad character in it.
Don't watch it.
We're going to change that.
We're going to make sure that that movie doesn't have a bad character in it.
And you're like, who gives a fuck?
Shut the fuck up.
And then on the right, you have it with like, you know, pretty much everything they consume all the way to guns.
Like they make that a significant part of their identity.
Like that's crazy.
A gun is just a weapon, right?
It's a toy.
It's a fun toy to play with.
It's a very dangerous toy to play with.
Okay.
But because of marketing and because of like a lack of any sort of like cultural foundation that you can build on top of and because of all the social isolation that you feel, all the alienation that you feel from your labor, you end up fucking being like the gun guy.
That's your thing.
You're the gun guy now.
You kind of are what you buy.
Yeah.
Subscribe to our Patreon.
Check five, five bucks a month.
Exactly.
It's true.
No, I feel you know, it's just pretty nuts.
Yeah.
Like people don't have shit, but the presence of a firearm is like the backbone of their identity.
Yeah.
I don't ever want to have a gun, bro.
I mean, I love guns.
I love shooting guns.
I would shoot myself.
This is not even on a basic safety level.
I'm not anti-gun.
I'm just saying I would shoot myself.
I don't know.
I feel like an eye patch would take your shit to a whole new level.
It would.
But by the way, what you just described is like also one of the main reasons why in red states where there's less gun laws, men have a dramatically higher suicide rate because they oftentimes use a gun to kill themselves.
And alcohol rates, alcoholism rates too, it all connects.
Like being most people who commit suicide are drunk.
Yeah.
I mean, it does make sense.
No, no safety nets, no adequate mental health care.
Just Rumble Parlor and HN.
T-Shirt Peddler vs Fascist Ideology00:15:41
Yeah.
That's your only fucking friends.
You're on.
I'll say the N-word.
Yeah, exactly.
Your friends are racist online bullies.
It sucks, man.
That's the worst kind of person I can think of.
It's interesting to consider kind of the toll of isolation just on the human psyche.
Like prolonged isolation in these crappy, kind of remote places.
Yeah.
And what that does to your willingness to believe nonsense or your willingness to find camaraderie in the worst places.
It all connects to the culture war that they're like pushing on mainstream media too.
That's why, you know, every time there's a lull in the country, like you see on Fox and shit, they force this like, you know, trans.
Right now, the trans fucking shit.
Transpanding is forcing it.
The transpanner right now is like unbelievable.
I'm going to start covering more shit related to that stuff.
Drag story hour.
We're actually talking to them right now to do something.
So be safe because things are getting increasingly more violent.
Obviously, the Q nightclip shooting was an example of this, but also like it's insane that there was one thing that you talked to with Tario that also was, you know, was like an aha, that's right moment where he was like, everyone was smiling.
You know, the Antifa were smiling.
They were having a good time.
We were having a good time.
It's like they're bored.
They want to have a club together.
Yeah.
Okay.
And they're just like nerds, but instead of playing Dungeons and Dragons, like they're just LARPing as like fascists.
You know what's funny is off camera, Enrique Tario told me that he doesn't think the election was stolen.
Oh, to me, it's the funniest fucking thing.
I was like, do you think it was stolen?
I just want to know.
He's like, probably not.
He's a t-shirt salesman.
I know, but just the fact that you don't think the election was stolen, yet you and your like militarized group of homies are storming the Capitol to overturn the election results.
Well, yeah, he wasn't there technically.
Yeah, he was getting a foot massage in Maryland.
You and I have had this conversation, and I wonder.
I mean, now that the documentary is out, maybe you can reveal this.
You don't think he was a CI, like you don't think he's no, I don't think that Enrique was a direct informant during the Capitol, right?
No, I don't think he was.
More people would have gone down.
That's interesting.
You're right, actually.
Not a lot of the proud, or maybe they're still using them.
It's an easy narrative to say, yeah, the leader of the Proud Boys was a fed the whole time, and it's very satisfying on like a base level.
But nah, dude, he informed on like a human trafficking case in Miami like six years prior.
I don't know why the news never emphasizes that.
I thought it was, uh, I thought he got caught for diabetic.
He got caught in a ring of various crimes.
One of the crimes was diabetic test strips that were expired that he was selling on the street.
Which is, by the way, the most Florida thing you could do.
When I first read it, I was like, expired diabetic test strips?
I was like, what the fuck does that even mean?
But he explained, he made millions of dollars.
Well, that's, again, he's from Florida, right?
He's from, yeah, he's from Little Havana area.
He's a pretty urbanized Miami guy.
So that is the most Florida thing other than like, obviously, cocaine.
Because, I mean, when you think of like Governor Rick Scott, the dude that looks like fucking Voldemort, he is responsible for the largest Medicare fraud in this country, in the nation, in the history of this nation.
And then they elected him as the governor of Florida.
So, like, that's extremely Florida to do like medicine scams.
Yeah.
So he had a lot of people.
That's where the pill farms were too.
He had this crime cabal.
And within the crime cabal, there was a weed grow house and a human trafficking ring from Cuba.
He took a plea deal where he snitched on the people involved in the human trafficking and snitched on the weed grow house.
So he sent a few people to jail.
He himself did about nine months in state prison for the for the test strip shit.
Came out shortly after Charlottesville.
Yeah.
That's when Gavin stepped down, appointed Enrique as a diversity guy.
Yeah, but I mean, he just, he strikes me, especially in your documentary, he strikes me more as just a t-shirt peddler and less as like an ideologically grounded fascist who genuinely cares about like upholding Western chauvinism or whatever the fuck they talk about in the Proud Boys.
And also on top of that, like that was the first moment where I was like, maybe he's not a fucking fed because like, no, he just genuinely looks like the, he seems like the type of dude who's just like, I don't give a fuck about anything.
I just want to make money.
You know what he is, though, in addition to a Proud Boy?
What?
MLG.
He's a professional Halo player.
Dude, I saw the fucking Funko pops his shit on his RGB desk.
I was like, what the fuck's going on?
Is this guy a gamer?
Big time.
Oh, God.
War games, man.
It all makes sense.
He deserves less.
He deserves less.
Gamers deserve less.
Once again, dude.
Yeah.
Man, I've had some funny experiences with Enrique.
Yeah, he is a unique dude for sure.
Out of all the people that you've met, who's your favorite?
It's hard to pick.
In the documentary?
In the documentary.
Fuck, man.
I mean, me and Enrique had some good old times.
Not Joker Gang.
Oh, Joker Gang is pretty sick.
Joker Gang is definitely up there.
Can you pull this dude up?
I need Will to see this motherfucker, bro.
I swear to God.
This dude is insane.
He fell off the map for two and a half years.
Can you do a video with?
Wait, is this someone that's like an all gas no breaks recurring character?
Yeah.
Yes.
I remember this guy.
Isn't he a sausage castle guy too?
Or what was his name?
No, no, no.
He fought Gum Gang at the Sausage Castle in the opening scene.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
And you were the ref there.
I was the ref.
That was crazy.
So he shows up in the dock.
The opening scene is a fight between Gum Gang and Joker Gang in Florida.
Sausage Castle.
Yeah, sure.
Wait, is your...
This is behind the scenes, so you can play this shit.
This is like...
White trash rumble.
Hell yeah, bro.
Yeah.
I mean, this is extremely Florida.
I've never seen this video before.
This is extremely Florida shit.
That's me preparing for the first scene of the movie.
Joker didn't know that he was in the movie.
I guess he fell off the map and he texted me last night and he said, am I in the documentary?
Like after it came out.
I was like, oh, man.
Yes, you are, sir.
I mean, he probably loves that shit, though.
Oh, for sure.
It's just funny that he didn't even realize that he was going to be in it.
This guy, Gum Gang, we actually brought him out in Orlando for our live show.
I'm just guessing.
He's called Gum Gang because he has no teeth.
Yeah.
Okay.
That was good.
He makes bongs out of fish.
He shoots himself in the cock a lot.
With what?
With like a potato blasting.
Potato gun.
Yeah, potato blasting.
I mean, terrible movement.
He drank a fifth of Crown Royal before this fight, though.
So like.
Wow, look at the mobility he's getting with those jorts on.
Joker Gang trained for like six months to get ready for this show.
I mean, you can tell.
At least he didn't drop his hands for the longest.
Look at what a terrible ref I have.
I'm not stopping any of this shit.
Oh, no.
The audience just wants it to go.
I think that was a big point of legal contention with HBOs.
I'm not certified as a referee in the state of Florida.
So they're like, none of this shit.
They're legal for a while.
I can't believe that this is a behind-the-scenes legal.
Yeah, I've never seen this.
Your documentary from someone who's like one person.
Yeah, there's a lot of people.
Looked at a guy who had Joker makeup on and a guy in jorts and went, is this?
They all just fight this one.
Wow.
Hey, you did the right thing there.
Yeah.
Nick.
Yeah.
So what I was saying is the point of the opening scene, like the shocking cold open, is basically to troll people who want a serious political movie and also to engage kids who otherwise wouldn't be interested in politics.
You know what I'm saying?
So it's like kind of a double-edged, it's like a two-headed snake.
You wanted to just nip the Netflix-y kind of like, this is Washington, D.C. Exactly.
Date?
On the fifth.
Like, for example, I did an interview at NPR this morning, right?
Yeah.
So that's crazy.
The NPR listeners are kind of like, oh, great.
A movie about the January 6th insurrection.
I can't wait to see what.
And they have to watch two Florida influencers fight for like five minutes before just to get a real palate cleanse.
Whereas I know if I made a documentary strictly about January 6th, you know, no one below 18 or around there would give a shit about it.
Whereas we went like Zoomers to actually like this movie.
Well, I think it's an interesting conundrum because you're talking about something that is like kind of lunacy in and of itself, right?
So the way that you approach it is almost more fair to the actual vantage point than like this like super stripped down, homogenized like Anderson Cooper.
What's going on here?
Yeah, for sure.
I just don't want to ever feel like I'm putting someone down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
One thing I...
Who are you worried that you would...
Who would you be worried about feeling that you were putting down?
Somebody that's completely brainwashed and vulnerable and talking to me.
The world's not going to be a better place if I make them look stupid.
It's so easy.
Right.
To slam dunk on someone is the easiest thing in the world.
Don't you feel that like at a certain point, you give them every opportunity to speak their truth and a lot of that onus is on them.
I don't think that you frame any of your interviews in a way where it looks like you're trying to ambush.
But a lot of people can't handle a mirror, especially in some of these hogged out contexts.
So when they get pissed at you for featuring you on their platform, being like, this guy's trying to make us look dumb.
Alex Jones is a perfect example.
I'm like, I'm not trying to make you look dumb.
I'm literally putting a video of what you're saying into my movie.
Do you feel like sometimes you almost have to go the other way where you dedicate editing and kind of like favorable takes to make them look better?
Yeah, definitely.
And they still failed.
Yeah.
I try as hard as I can.
I think the most important thing that, and this is something I stress on my broadcasts all the time as well, is to like differentiate between the Steven Crowders, the Ben Shapiros, the Owen Schroyers, the Alex Joneses of the world, and the actual people that are brainwashed by them.
Some of those people might have like hateful ideologies beforehand, but even then they're still victims and products of their own social conditioning.
Whereas people like Steven Crowder and Mitch Bureau see the world for what it is, have a decent grasp on it, and yet choose to very clearly communicate a fucked up viewpoint of the world to ensure that other people are brainwashed and also have talking points so they can like be armed.
The regular citizens are armed with right now.
I'd say Matt Walsh is the most effective cultural warrior.
See what he said?
He said on Joe Rogan, millions of kids are going through hormone therapy right now.
Yeah.
He is out of fucking mind.
For you to think there's like, that's such a he doesn't think that though.
I know fucking piece of shit.
But saying that is so insane and that people will actually believe that there's millions of people.
Even Joe Rogan pushed back on that, which is crazy because he's like, oh, dude, it's so crazy.
Like I was watching one of his videos the other day and he straight up said some shit.
It was just like, liberals want to destroy your family.
The left wants to destroy your family.
I'm just like, that is just like the most direct but powerful simple messaging for any viewer.
So what's going on with that sort of thing right now is that we're broaching new territory, right?
Because the thing about trans people or anti-trans rhetoric is that it's not necessarily new.
It's like the oldest trick in the book.
Family values, gay people are pedophiles, trans people are pedophiles.
That's something that the right and fascists have said for a very long time while also like simultaneously advocating for like, you know, child brides and whatnot, right?
Defending Warren Jeffs or like which Tucker Carlson has evicted pedophiles.
The fucking biggest cabal of pedophiles is for sure the church.
Yeah.
The more fucking question.
The Catholic Church.
Every church.
Every single church is just full of fucking pedophiles.
Yeah.
And so it's just funny these like Christian evangelical right-wing people talking about Christian family values.
I'm like, they pretty much invented being pedophiles.
Yeah.
And they and they also are like, you know, advocates still and want to defend like child brides in many different ways.
It's still happening right now.
Yeah.
I mean, Matt Walsh has routinely talked about like, you know, get married at 16.
It's like, dude, what the fuck?
That sounds horrible, dude.
Imagine getting married at 16.
Yeah, to Matt Walsh of all fucking people.
I don't even want to get married until I'm like 35.
Yeah.
But game rate sounds tight if you're in love.
Yeah.
Well, you know, not when you're fucking a 70-year-old man with a 16-year-old girl, which is what these clowns are advocating for in a lot of instances.
So good.
So, but the thing I was going to say is like the trans stuff is in a gray area for a lot of people because like society is pretty transphobic, you know, because gender norms are pretty rigid in the way that we understand it, even though that's like old, antiquated ways of thinking about like gender expression.
It's like very clear-cut.
Like it's a big part of our identity.
Again, it's actually one of the few things that we don't consume that we are conditioned into believing that is like a genuinely large part of our identity.
So when like the existence of trans people, you know, becomes more normalized, all of a sudden, that's like groundbreaking for so many people.
They're like, what the fuck?
And it's hard for them to, it's a hard pill for them to swallow.
Yeah.
Use a matrix analogy by, you know the, the goaded Wukowski sisters uh, who are trans um, and that kind of.
That's the reason why I think it's like kind of effective, as long as you don't go too far with the anti-trans rhetoric.
Like Joe Rogan, I would say, is the most effective transphobic uh, you know commentator out there because of like the dog whistles on the reach.
Basically because because he doesn't go so far as to say, like you know, Like you should murder trans people, which is Matt Walsh takes it there.
I saw that one recently.
Yeah, he literally just says it.
He's like, I want cops to go in and kill these people.
Like in a trans like, you know, or not even trans, like a drag, you know, story.
Just like a party where trans people are at.
I think part of Joe Rogan's efficacy is that he insinuates that there is a problem there.
You know what I mean?
He doesn't really like identify what it is or he doesn't really inflate the severity of it, but he kind of insinuates that it's against the norm or it's against the natural order.
I do think there is a problem with like how sexual content is like being marketed to children.
Like music videos and shit.
I think that like, I don't know, like maybe it's major record labels or something.
They're like marketing.
Like if you watch a standard like music video, it's just ass and like tongues and like titties and that's always been the case.
But I feel like it fucked me up like growing up watching that shit before I even understand what I saw.
So I do think like it's just sad because you take a real issue like that and then you're flaggera dirty.
Yeah.
Tattoo.
All the things she said is formative.
Riding through my head.
These are.
No, that's tattoo.
Yeah, tattoo.
Tattoo.
You know what I'm saying?
There's actually something that is like up for debate and concern.
I'm just saying I jerked off a lot to those music.
Dude, but you're probably addicted to porn.
You know what I'm saying?
No, I don't think so.
Dude, like subconsciously.
No, you're definitely addicted to porn.
I have I have not like jerked off the porn in months.
No, I listen.
He just watched it.
Listen, I just noticed he didn't say didn't watch it.
This is dope.
Here's what I would say.
Here's what I would say.
And this is a different way of thinking about it.
I think part of the problem is not human sexuality, but the onus that we put on human sexuality, right?
The problem is not that kids are consuming sex, but that we make them feel like there should be a guilt about it.
Porn Addiction and Violence Imagery00:03:49
Well, they're also consuming violence too.
Like think about these major record labels like marketing like murder music to fucking eight-year-olds.
Yeah.
So they're marketing sex and violence to kids because it's very enticing and pornographic.
Violence is also pornographic.
It's not just about sex.
It's fucking crazy if you think about like what 21 Savage's music like literally is like on the radio and he's like pull up to his crib, shoot his mother in front of kids.
Like that's fucking shit that's being said.
And like, I don't know if that's a direct lyric, but just like, I mean, that was a bar sign.
And then there's like fucking TikTok dances with like nine-year-olds.
Like that is pretty fucking weird, but it's not the agenda of like deep state trans shit.
You know what I'm saying?
But there is actual fucking weird shit like that.
I think that as far as like the content that children are consuming, the content that kids are consuming, I think social media has made it significantly worse.
For sure.
Like in the past, you had limited access.
And because you had limited access, it was harder to acquire, but it was also like easier to control.
When we were growing up, I'm 31 years old, right?
When we were growing up, especially in Turkey, like I wanted to jerk off.
I was a kid.
I was like, I'm horny.
You know what I mean?
And it was so fucking hard to find porn, which I, I guess, like, restricted that and maybe made it a little bit healthier because it was like harder to access.
I have no fucking idea what it's like now to be like a, me at 13, if I had a phone in my hand at all times and I could just like, you know, open up porn and just jerk off the porn like that, I probably would only masturbate.
I would not do it.
I've done anything else.
Skip school and beat off.
Yeah, like I would have been porn drunk or whatever they call it.
Porn sick.
I started watching porn when I was seven years old.
That's crazy.
Hooray.
You're younger than us, too.
How old are you?
Seven?
Yeah, I'm 25.
Bro, where were you getting porn at seven?
Bro, just like you walk into, like you're online.
You Google titty.
You Google like butt.
Yeah, that's true.
Like you're a little bit younger than us.
Like I, when I was seven, we didn't have fucking like smartphones.
I didn't even know what I was seeing, bro, but it was like, I just, I was just watching it and I was just like, this is sick.
And we were my parents like, what the fuck are you watching?
That's crazy.
Titties.
And they're just like, stop watching that.
And I realized that probably affected me in time.
You know what I mean?
So imagine kids.
You know what's really interesting too is there's like this weird curve of like 1900 kids were grown up by 12, right?
They're going to the fucking factory.
Yeah.
Then there's this period of time where like there was like this incubation where it's like you get to make your way through high school and maybe part of college while still being innocent.
And now we're crashing back down to the internet era where it's like you're grown up by 12 again because you're still grown up by 12 because of everything you've seen, but you're still incredibly babied in the sense that like you're not fucking going to the to the mines back.
You know, but also I don't think that that's a good thing.
I'm not advocating for children.
No, let's see what you're saying.
You're saying that the children now are a week.
Can't back in the menu.
We need to get back to the porch.
The children of the mines.
That's what I'm saying.
Men have it easy now.
I'm reading between the lines a little bit.
Okay, let's fucking go.
I'm picking up that you feel like you might have a porn addiction.
No, I don't have a porn addiction.
But I'm saying I realized that I was hypnotized by imagery when I was young.
What do you think is going on in your psyche?
Nothing now.
I'm just saying, like, you know, before you even kissed a girl, like, you've already seen like, you know, hours and hours of a hardcore pornography.
It's pretty weird.
Damn.
I'm thinking about that.
I'm like, I don't think I had seen hours of pornography before I kissed a girl.
I fucking wish I did, but I'm not anti-pornography.
I saw hours and hours of pornography before I had sex.
Yeah.
That's the case for everyone.
That definitely colored way.
Manipulation and the Pedophile Label00:16:05
Exactly.
Me too.
I went in there like raw daily.
I went in there like, yeah, it would make you bad at sex for the first few years of your life.
I don't know if that's the case.
I feel like I know that.
Yeah, I studied the blade, my friend.
Yeah, I definitely treated it like professionally.
Because like literally same.
For me, I was like, these are the moves I need to hit.
I don't know if I'll have sex again.
Yeah, yeah.
This is my only chance.
In my mind, I was like, oh my God, this person wants to have sex with me.
I don't know when the next time will happen.
I need to hit every move.
I got to do doggy style.
I got to do missionary.
And I was like holding on for dear life.
I was like, oh, yeah.
It was awesome.
Yeah, it's chill.
Point being, going back to what we were first talking about, it sucks how people move the goalpost on shit all the time.
For example, Epstein Island, real fucking thing.
Yeah.
Baby eating pedophiles in Hollywood.
Not real.
So the problem is.
Well, we don't know.
I'm saying people move the pedophile.
So you take an issue that actually could be talked about normally.
Then you have these cultural warriors who profit off of fucking moving the goalpost, turning it into some insane bullshit so they can sell panic ads.
And then there you go.
The liberal version of that is more organized and more institutionalized, I will admit.
Like time's up, the extension of Me Too that was basically created by people who very literally worked with like Andrew Cuomo in like and engaged in cover-ups of like actual sex criminals that varied from like sexual harassment all the way to like sexual assault.
So it was wild to see that.
And I was like, what the fuck?
These are like, these are the people.
You know what I mean?
And they are engaging in the things that they're like supposedly calling out.
Whereas on the right-wing side, they do get a lot of funding.
Okay.
Just like the liberal side gets a lot of funding.
I'm not talking about any leftist cause or anything.
any like true progressive causes but on the right-wing side then you have the t-shirt salesmen who are like you know making a living off of like extending this to everything um and and now i feel as though this mania has taken hold of like our media cycle so if you go to independent news right if you ever go to independent news they will serve you Anything you want to see that corresponds to your personal biases.
Yeah.
And you will get fake news in even less meaningful ways, right?
One thing I want to talk about, have you kept up with the Megan the Stallion shooting Tori Lane?
He got convicted, right?
So Tori Lanes is going to jail.
He got convicted of shooting Megan Thee Stallion.
It was an incredible situation that like most normal people, if you look at the story without like actually thinking about who the people are or who the victims are or anything, a person shoots another person.
The person survives, says this person shot me.
There is a third person involved as well who also says that person shot the other person.
I'm using person on purpose because Megan Dee Stallion being a woman, a black woman, I think played a really important role in like undermining her fucking eyewitness testimony as someone who got shot.
And the Manosphere picked that up and all of these rap blogs and like T blogs basically picked that up and were so overwhelmingly in favor of Tori Lanes that a open and shut court case, right?
Consumed by millions of Americans, especially because mainstream media didn't really pick it up that much.
Was basically guided by these blogosphere, Manosphere people, and it duped millions of Americans into thinking that Tori Lanes was actually innocent of shooting Megan Thee Stallion when Tori Lanez didn't think that, right?
Yeah.
And now...
Or even beyond that, that he might still be guilty and that he shouldn't be found guilty.
Yeah, well, there was that too.
Yeah.
Like even if he's guilty, like beyond a reasonable doubt, like it's not beyond a reasonable doubt.
I'm like, motherfucker, that's crazy.
Yeah.
I mean, even I was shocked when I saw the guilty verdict because I also consume a lot of rap blog shit.
Yeah.
And so I thought it was like sort of up in the air.
And it was like, oh, no, a celebrity shot a female celebrity in the fucking foot.
That's insane.
Didn't he even say dance, bitch?
Yeah.
What the fuck?
And that's like some psychotic shit.
I just can't believe that's probably the first like celebrity on celebrity shooting I've ever.
Has there ever been a celebrity on celebrity shooting?
Well technically, YSL against like I'm talking about two active superstars engaged in fucking.
I mean they'll play with each other.
Back when duels were a thing, there were a lot of presidents that shot that one guy who died in Dual Andrew or something, isn't it Alexander Hamilton?
And you're the political.
No, I don't trash it.
All goes back to like projection and yeah, I want to talk about the most.
To me, the craziest scene in the movie is the oh you spoil some more dude.
This is like the best part of the movie.
This was you know what.
Hold it, hold your thought.
I don't want to consume that here.
We'll do behind the paywall okay sure, because I don't want, because I don't want everyone Everyone, to see like the best.
I want people to go watch it.
But this was the hardest scene I've ever had to film.
Okay, fuck it.
Let's do it here.
Yeah, let's get it.
Let's do it here.
All right.
So for months, we had been.
And we'll show it behind the paywall at patreon.com slash fear and also.
I just want to put something in perspective.
There's probably some people that are meeting you here for the first time listening, right?
I really doubt it.
Well, in my community, never mind.
We'll move forward.
My man flexed on you.
He said, hey, I don't know if you know what I'm saying.
I just want to put in perspective, you have filmed a lot of very difficult shit.
Yes.
So for you to say that this is by far the most difficult.
Yeah, it was like my Chris Hansen moment.
I had a Chris Hansen moment.
Lead into it.
And I don't know how he does what he does.
All right.
So this scene.
So for months we had been following this guy who lives in a trailer in North Carolina named Dave Todoschini.
He's like a New York guy living out of a trailer in North Carolina somewhere near a town called Salisbury.
And, you know, he's a big QAnon blogger.
So he had this page called NetforTruth USA where he was posting shit on Rumble, BitChute, Parlor, and 8-Chin.
Basically, every day he would post long videos about exposing cabals of Satan worshiping pedophiles, like saying JFK Jr. is still alive, talking about Eminem and Dave Chappelle are like splitting babies in half and eating them together.
As one does.
Normal stuff.
He split the baby before you.
Evan Gilbert Katz, who's our research expert, one of our camera guys, he had been following this guy for months.
And this guy was getting tens of thousands of views on his platform.
Sure.
He actually learned that this guy who makes videos exposing pedophiles is himself a convicted pedophile.
He was convicted in 1999 of molesting like an eight-year-old boy in New Jersey.
Jesus Christ.
Like tried and convicted.
Felon went to jail for like six, seven years.
God.
Right.
So we, at the end of the movie, spoiler alert, I sat down at a fast food restaurant with him with his paperwork from New Jersey and his mugshots after the Capitol Riot.
And he had a gun on his waist.
And like.
Oh, you were worried he was going to pull up on you.
He had a gun.
Oh, bear in mind.
He's actually, you know, he can't actually have a gun because of his felony status.
Oh, my God.
So I'm sitting there talking to him.
Oh, my God.
A convicted pedophile who is now famous for supposedly hunting pedophiles.
Right.
So I had a bunch of printouts of different celebrities that I had laminated that I got made at Kinko's that day.
So I showed him a picture of Oprah.
I said, do you think Oprah's a pedophile?
He said, oh, definitely.
Hillary Clinton?
He said, yeah.
She actually pulled his picture.
And no, I pulled up Joe Biden and he said, oh, yeah.
I call him creepy, sleepy, chomo, uncle Joe.
I asked him, like, what does chomo mean?
And he said, chomo is a jailhouse term for child molester.
And of course, I showed a picture of Jonah Hill, who's the executive producer of the movie.
Yeah.
He was like, oh, yeah, pedophile.
Absolutely.
And the final thing that I pulled was a stack of paper with his mug shots and convictions on it.
Yeah.
And it was fucking terrifying because I did crazy?
I was prepping in the RV before that.
And I was just like, I might die during this interview.
It would make for really good content for us to consume.
If I died.
Yeah, the movie would do a lot better.
It's doing pretty good.
So fucking, he just, he was like, it's, I'm spacing it enough because it was so fucking crazy.
But he was like, under a false conviction.
And I was like, what do you mean?
This is, you were convicted.
He's like, I did.
He goes, I did what Michael Flynn did.
I knew I couldn't win.
I was like, have you heard of projection?
He's like, yes.
Hillary Clinton projects all the time.
And I realized that he just used the mythology of Q and all the conspiracies to assign meaning to his life, which he had broken himself.
And it was really fascinating and sad because I have no sympathy for child molesters, but I'm saying knowing that I am exposing this guy and millions of people will see basically understanding the pathology of this person and just realizing like, you know, because I'm not typically an aggressive interviewer.
I'm normally like very empathetic, listen along.
But I felt that for this particular instance, I had to kind of buck up for the first time and just be like, you make videos about pedophiles and you're a pedophile.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just that simple.
Here's, here's the thing.
You, you nailed it.
Thank you.
It is, I mean, it was brilliant.
It was a wonderful moment.
It's great.
Love to see it.
You nailed it on two fronts.
One, one thing that you just mentioned.
Nobody has sympathy for pedophiles, right?
It's like the one thing that everybody, other than like slavery and Nazis, it's the one thing in contemporary society where everyone just goes, that's bad.
That's wrong.
Everyone understands that.
It's like the worst thing you can do.
That's why Chomos, you know, in prison are murdered by other people, right?
Other criminals.
Most of whom, by the way, have been molested themselves.
Yeah.
So basically, for that reason, and this is a Michael Hudson take.
You know, I got to give him credit.
A lot of these people are oftentimes the worst people in their communities.
Like they're the most like annoying fucking people or the most like divorced fathers who are like, who people don't want to be around or whatever.
So they kind of like jump or even pedophiles themselves.
They jump to like point out the worst in society, specifically so that they think that that makes them look better.
Where they're just like, oh, well, you know, what?
Are you going to come against me?
I'm literally hunting pedophiles.
Like, what the fuck do you mean?
Yeah, I always feel that way about the pedo hunter guys.
I'm like, what the fuck's going on here?
Yeah, they're so, they're always so fucking strange.
Like, they literally will also illegally basically present themselves as children on the internet, which is like wild to begin with.
Sometimes they use like actual children's photos to do that too.
And it's like, what the fuck are you doing?
The thing that really fucked me up about the whole Dave Todoskini situation is that whenever he got convicted of these crimes, he was a Boy Scout troop leader in Bedstead, Brooklyn in the 80s, which was a very, very, you know, black community.
And so that element particularly bothered me.
Yeah.
You know, the fact that there was like a weird like racial element to it, at that point, I was just like, I have to do this.
Yeah.
That's, I mean, it's wild that they actually convicted him back then, which is like when, you know, even back then, people were just like kind of.
Yeah, that's when Dahmer was.
Yeah, they kind of kept that shit quiet back then.
They didn't give a fuck.
I forget what his justification was.
We left it out, but he was like, well, his parents set me up because I was trying to tell a kid to stop taking Adderall.
And his parents are involved in big pharma and Adderall fucks kids up and Riddling makes kids autistic.
I'm just like, dude.
Yeah.
Come on now.
Yeah.
No, that is.
Oh, you know what he said?
He was like, where I got arrested?
It's a mile from a zoo.
You know what they sell at the zoo gift shop?
Condoms.
What kind of zoo gift shop sells condoms?
That's deflect.
That's like literally.
He's trying to deflect away so hard.
Yeah.
Deflection and projection.
What you just, what you mentioned there, the second thing I wanted to say, projection is like a primary component of how, and deflection especially is a primary component of how modern right-wing movements work now.
Yeah.
Where like so many of them, for example, are friendly or even have promoted Andrew Tate.
Right.
Andrew Tate recently, uh, as a top trafficker.
Yeah.
Tolp G was Tulp Groomer was using a lover boy method in Romania, which is a very common method that is used all around Europe.
That's when you convince someone like you love them and then you just like traffic them.
Yeah, you fly them out, you convince them that you love them, and then you manipulate them into doing sex work, and then you oftentimes will do like physical coercion, intimidation, or give a little bit of love, take it back, that sort of thing to like continue this cycle of abuse and sexual exploitation for a lot of these victims, right?
It's pretty whack.
And yeah, that's it.
Yeah.
It's a hard stance to take.
But all these fucking right-wingers, including Tucker Carlson, have had this guy who had been arrested prior when the investigation was still being conducted on his sex trafficking crimes.
Like, had him on their shows and defended him.
Yeah.
And said that he was like, you know, this right-wing hero that was being silenced and censored by mainstream media.
Exactly.
It's funny because he also believes in the deep state trafficking cabal, right?
I'm sure.
I mean, at least to the point that he's been manipulated.
Imagine if you're actually trafficking and you're talking about that shit.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
Yeah, I see what you're saying, though.
When you said projection.
Okay, I get what you're saying, though.
All these motherfuckers, like Libs of TikTok, you know, the number one stochastic terrorist.
She loves Taylor, dude.
Yeah.
She loves Taylor.
She's obsessed with her.
It's very weird.
I think that I personally think Chaya Rachik, Libs of TikTok, is an in-the-closet lesbian woman.
By the way, I will say it.
Now that I've seen her and the way she carries herself, it makes sense because she constantly fucking talks about how like, Taylor, I don't want to date you.
I'm like, no one is saying that.
Yeah.
Like you just kind of came up with that on your own.
And Taylor's married.
Yeah.
It's very weird that you like call her Tay Tay.
Yeah.
Anyway, but she has like promoted fucking Andrew Tate.
There's another like prominent, there's another prominent like sex trafficking survivor and advocate who's like kind of right-wing, like also was like hanging out with Andrew Tate, if I'm not mistaken.
Like there's so many of these people who are like constantly talking about grooming and sex trafficking and the deep state cabal who turn a blind eye to the shit that's actually fucking happening because either A, they don't care or B, they themselves are, you know, involved in something that they've done and they're just projecting it.
Is that why he moved to Romania?
He moved to Romania because in his own words, the Me Too movement, first of all, he's like, okay, we're going to Romania, dude.
You can't get canceled out there.
Yeah, basically.
And also, again, in his own words, like rich people violate the rules all the time.
Yeah.
But in Romania, you can do it on a budget.
Okay.
You can get corrupt on a budget.
Those are his exact words.
Like for the record.
You can live like a damn Bilzerian lifestyle in Romania on a standard salary.
Yes.
And he basically said you can bribe the police to do whatever.
So it's a cheap place to be a douchebag.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Damn.
Which, by the way, is interesting.
It's a slogan.
Yeah.
It's interesting, though, because he has basically admitted for years all of the things that he's now charged with.
Yeah.
And then some.
And I always was like looking at it going like, why the fuck is this guy saying it?
Like for months, before he got arrested, I talked about it.
Like I said, this dude is going to be responsible for his own demise because he can't shut the fuck up about all the crimes he's committing.
Yeah.
Where would you move to be a douchebag?
Not do all the horrible things, but to live a douchebag, kind of damn Bilzerian lifestyle.
Ben Shapiro's Douchebag Lifestyle00:04:52
If you guys had to pick any country, where are we going?
I mean, I feel like I like have the capacity to do that here.
No, no, no, assuming that you're only making like 100 grand.
Oh, uh-oh.
If I'm balling on a budget, an island somewhere for sure.
Yeah, yeah.
Caribbean island like West or like Polynesian Island.
There are so many islands.
Are we talking Micronesia?
Are we talking about the West Indies?
Let's keep it.
Let's get specific.
I don't know.
Like, it needs to be island climate, though.
But also at the same time, like islands are too small to be a playground almost.
I would, I don't know.
This is a hard question to answer.
Yeah.
Where would you go?
Beth.
What the fuck?
He does not want to incriminate himself.
Yeah.
He's already planning on moving somewhere.
No, I don't know.
Where would I want to go to be anonymous?
No.
To be a douche.
I feel like Thailand is a good place to.
Yeah, that's where a lot of people go.
That's where a lot of Australian douchebags go.
Yeah.
For reals.
Like Sydney guys.
Yeah.
Oh, have you ever seen that guy, Sharpie, who's like the, who's like, they did a documentary.
He's like a pimp out there and he's like giant.
Oh, he got arrested, right?
I don't know, but I just knew sex paths.
Like a lot of sex paths go there for sure.
Yeah.
I just, I mean, I guess Thailand is, I don't know how far it is in proximity to like Macau, but if it's close enough, then that's kind of chill because I want to go all over.
Have you been to Macau before?
No, but I want to go.
Do you like gambling?
I enjoy gambling.
Yeah.
I don't know how to play any of the games, but if I did, I would go to Macau.
I don't either.
I just know how to play Blackjack.
That's all I play.
That's a game?
Yeah.
It's the only one I know how to play.
And I'm not very good at it.
I'm very unlucky, but I still enjoy it.
Like, I just, you know, it's whatever.
But I just think it's like fun.
It's fun to do.
Craps is the best game.
That's one of those where I'm like, I don't know what crap fuck is going on.
Would you rather share a studio apartment for two years with either Andrew Tate or Matt Walsh?
Oh, Andrew Tate, 100%.
Why?
He won't stop doing push-ups.
Dude, it's fine.
I work out.
If he wasn't like a convicted or not convicted yet, but if he wasn't charged with sex trafficking, I think Andrew Tate has at least some qualities as a performer, as an entertainer that I can understand in a similar vein to Alex Jones.
Like if you ask me that question with like Alex Jones versus Matt Walsh, Alex Jones is easy.
I would like to live with him.
Yeah.
So like Andrew Tate has some of those qualities as like an a relatively entertaining person.
The unfortunate reality is that like the only way that he can express his, the only way that he has like been able to express himself is through not playing the role of a villain, really, but like literally becoming the villain and also being a violent misogynist.
So, but Matt Walsh has no redeeming qualities.
Okay, Walsh or Crowder, studio apartment, West Hollywood.
That's hard.
That's a hard one.
Probably still Steven Crowder.
Yeah, you don't want to live with Matt Walsh.
Yeah, I just, I can't stand him.
He is like, there's something about him that like to the core, like, because all of these guys that we're talking about, they pretty much have the same worldview.
But like Matt Walsh also has no redeeming qualities on top of that.
Like where he's, even with like Steven Crowder, you could like kind of make fun of him.
Oh, Walsh or Charlie Kirk.
That's the one.
Ooh, that's a tough one.
That is a tough one.
That's a tough one, dude.
Still Charlie Kirk.
Jesus, man.
We do not want to live with this guy.
Yeah, it's like, it's like Adolf Hitler and Matt Walsh.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I feel like he'd be a fucking awful roommate too.
Matt Walsh.
Yeah.
For sure.
He's just, because he has that like annoying, smarmy, self-assured Christian fundamentalist vibe too going on.
Whereas I feel like at least all the other people that we talked about, like they put that on as a front.
And I don't think that that's genuine.
Like even Ben Shapiro, right?
I feel like Ben Shapiro behind closed doors, not that he's a good person or anything.
I hope people don't misunderstand me.
But behind closed doors, I feel like Ben Shapiro has the capacity to be like kind of funny, let loose a little bit, right?
Whereas like Matt Walsh, I think carries himself that way behind the scenes as well.
I cannot see him being like a guy you could even have a drink with.
Yeah, any adult person who thinks like who believes strongly in Christianity, like I actually think that they might be like, oh, fucking morons.
I mean, yeah.
Dude, I mean, it's like they've like literal interpretations of the Bible as a grown person.
That's like some Santa Claus-esque shit.
Like the rapture and stuff like that.
Like, what?
Yeah, no, there's really fun stuff out there.
What about ancient apocalypse, though?
Good evidence for a flood.
Well, that's the thing, dude, is like the Q family, you can see.
If true, the QAnon shit's like the coolest sci-fi movie of all time.
You know, like, if you're a kid, it's fun, dude.
Yeah, that's why they do it.
Yeah.
QAnon as Sci-Fi Fun00:02:04
But on that note, we should move on to the second part of this broadcast, I think, because we have so much more to cover still.
Go watch the documentary.
Go watch the documentary.
HBO Max.
Andrew, it's been wonderful having you here.
Andrew Callahan, Channel 5, and also his new documentary is out on HBO.
Go check that out.
What else would you like to promote?
That's it.
That's it?
That's it.
Okay.
Well, we'll see you next time.
Also, know that it's not the only thing you want to promote.
He has a Patreon.
If you like Andrew's work, support him at his Patreon.
You don't have to, but it'll be fine.
It'll be cool if you did.
Where can people find your Patreon?
www.patreon.com slash channel5.
$5 a month, 10 if you want to be generous.
Tons of uncensored content.
Three new episodes up right now.
No one's ever seen Toronto Man, Calgary Stampede, Folsom Street Fairy.
We are going to give a sneak preview of, we're going to look at one of your censored content on our Patreon.
Is it the Folsom Street Fair video?
Whichever one that you want to do, you choose.
Oh, we can watch Folsom.
But we'll, we'll, if you want to do it.
Yeah, let's do it.
You have to go to my Patreon to get it, though, which means you have to actually be a patron.
Are you a patron?
I don't know.
We're about to find out.
Okay, well.
I think I am, but maybe not.
All right.
We'll see you next time.
Regardless.
Unless you're behind the paywall, in which case we'll see you shortly.
See you shortly.
All right.
You saw about 90 seconds of it, but the actual interview is 11 and a half minutes.
If my nose memory can handle that, you can handle it.
Oh my God.
I don't even want to think about that.
You're just like sitting in a fucking.
You guys pee all the time.
You know what it smells like.
Which also is Brace's famous.
So Brace's nickname, Piss Pig Grandad, comes from this guy.
That's Brian, the original San Francisco Piss Pig.
Wait, really?
That's why he named himself Piss Pig Granddad?
Yeah, and he's not just there, like, he's in the streets, like outside bars being like, yo, you have to go, man.