Hasan Piker, Ludwig Ahgren, XQC, and Will Neff dissect the fractured streaming community, centering on XQC's defense of using Pepe memes to expose manipulation while admitting to inappropriate weaponization of information against Hasan. They debate creator ethics regarding punching down versus mental dismantling opponents, contrasting XQC's "Reggie Miller" approach with Hasan's insistence on humanizing peers for industry sustainability. The group reflects on past conflicts involving "Cutie Cinderella" and Andrew Titcher, acknowledging mutual flaws and the difficulty of reconciling after burning bridges, ultimately suggesting that treating creators as real humans rather than disposable content is essential for long-term survival. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Ludwig's Racist Algorithm00:14:46
We're here.
We're live.
That's right.
This is a fucking bananas episode of Bonanza, if you will, I would say.
We're back on Fear Ann, and this is going to be a controversial episode.
Perhaps our most controversial one yet.
That's right.
We have some.
Because we're talking about Ludwig's algorithm.
We are.
Please don't.
Ludwig is a racist.
Exposed.
Titleist.
No, we're not doing that.
I mean, this man is on fire for the YouTube algo.
So, I mean, I got to admit.
I got to admit, we are tricking him out.
We are slutting you out.
Don't start biting slime tweets.
This is the Economics.
This is the Equinox Sana.
You're getting double sucked.
I don't mind getting up sucked.
Let me intro your podcast for you one time for the one.
Welcome to Fear Ann, the only podcast that has the bad title, but amazing viewership.
Today we got...
I'm sure there's other people.
We got...
Oh, well, banter.
Today we got two amazing hosts.
Put your hand up.
Hassan Piker.
I love Banter.
I can't.
I love Banter.
My claws are out.
I feed off X. He's an AOE.
He has an AOE passive.
It's not that bad.
Okay, Mr. Fucking Mogul Company, whatever the fuck it's called now.
Off-brand.
We have big businessman Mogul here, Ludwig.
And he brought his new piece of talent.
I'm here with XQC.
You're forgetting Will Neff.
Will Neff is the last name because he is the best on this podcast and locks it down.
And it's a disservice that the most view podcast is one without him because he had such a joy to it.
Who's on that one?
I don't know.
Let's look it up.
Uh-oh.
She.
Was that you?
I think it was because of Austin, but anyway.
Anyway, sorry to swagjack you too.
That's okay.
I got to apologize that off, Rip.
We have a lot to talk about.
We're here to break bread.
Are we?
Are we going to break bread?
We're here to break bread.
Talk about feelings.
You're the one who suggested this at first.
I joked about it.
Like, I jokingly had mentioned it.
You were like very serious about it.
You were like, let's bring XUC on and let's talk.
Well, I'm pumped.
I think this is good.
You know what I, what I've noticed is that it felt like there was an era of Twitch.
I'm talking like start to like 2019, where it was like very solo, do your own thing, be the best at a game, grow like that.
And then 2020 is like, boom, collaboration era.
And everybody became friends with everybody, or at least streamed with everybody, maybe faux friends.
You could just say Miss Giff and it would be good.
Yeah, a little bit of Miss.
But also like OTV, Among Us, all that shit.
And then now it feels like it's fractured in the poggers community.
And everyone's, yeah, like just like they want to put their head down, do their own thing, which I think is sad because I see what WL community does.
And I think that's the dream.
But the reason why they are able to consistently collaborate is because like one, they come from a background that is not so streaming focused.
Their audiences are not so streaming focused and they're not as clicky.
And also they haven't reached the Halcyon days yet.
What does that word mean for Carl?
Like the and not English major Ludwig?
French is my first language.
Okay, it's not, but it's okay.
Like the glory days, like the best days.
Okay.
The days that you look back.
Les Maire journey.
The cinema shows on Fontaine.
Yeah.
They're like honeymoon phasing a little bit.
Yes.
I don't think they're at their like drama phase yet, which inevitably will happen.
Every dude fractures.
Where do I think the drama is going to happen?
Call it out.
I have Bruce's idea.
What's Bruce going to do, bro?
I'm not.
I'm not closely following enough to know what the internal riffs look like.
I don't really, you know, I think they're great.
They're making good content.
I just watch it from afar instead of like plotting who's going to be shanking who.
But not all of them are shitty either when they collab or whatever, which is even better.
And they have outside shit going on too.
Like Kai is, you know, I mean, Kai fucking like actually did music.
Yeah.
Like legit, not like, you know, influencer turned musician type music.
I'm talking like you just straight up.
Was it who was it with NBA Youngboy or was it with?
I have no idea.
I don't want to fuck this up.
Hold on.
Let's look it up.
Let me come right up.
I thought of schemas.
Let's get right into it.
It hurt my feelings.
Wow.
You hurt our feelings.
That's true.
My feelings too.
But I think what just happened?
No, no, no.
I'm saying I'm going back to the main thing.
You want to talk about the meat of it and not meat of it?
I don't care who Kai rapped with, even though Kai's great.
What I'm going to say is there's one thing you said that really kind of fucked me up.
And it made me beg a question about it.
At one point, you said that none of us hang out because we're friends.
Wait, wait, I said that.
Not verbatim, but you insinuated that we never hang out because I did this.
Okay.
Before you, you developed too much of that mindset.
I was going to go ahead and say it, right?
Whenever I spoke about Hassan, right?
I spoke about Hassan and how I view him.
And then I immediately, I'm like, oh, man.
Well, what about Will?
And every time I can do these tirades, what about Will?
You're saying I'm a snake and a clout shark, but he's fine.
I'm okay with everything that's happening.
We're both babies.
Sick, dude.
Twelve things happen.
So wait, what do you mean by that?
When you're saying, when you say like Hassan only hangs out with people for clout, you're saying then you think of Will, who's his true best friend, and you think it's a genuine relationship?
Yeah.
And so then it basically countered every point you said, but you're so angry that you kept going on these points, even though you knew you had the direct counter, which is this man.
Yeah.
Why did you do that then?
Knowing that what you said in your head was wrong at the time.
Yeah, because whenever you're bowling downwards, like you can't start fixing it.
So this is the follow-up question I wanted to ask.
I talked to him about this and it begs the question with people like you.
Where does Felix the person end and XQC the streamer begin these days?
Do you ever feel like your persona is like colliding so much with your personal life that sometimes you find yourself doing things in your personal life as XQC or things on stream as Felix?
I think it's just the computer.
Not the computer.
Like she will go out of hand really fast.
Something like people say, oh, persona type of thing.
Obviously like that.
It's just like fucking at the computer, just fucking turning demonic.
The demonic is an interesting way to see it.
I see the light in your eyes, right?
At one point, I called you a content genius and a lot of people got upset about that.
And I was like, no, he is.
Right.
And there's something to be said about what you create resonates with a certain audience right now.
And you know what you're doing.
A lot of what you're doing is like your ability to percolate an audience.
And I think you have a hard time throttling that, right?
One time you verbatim said content over everything.
Does that stand true to this day or will you ever dial it back?
I just kind of love that.
I feel like even if I already lied to you guys, a lot of us like, yeah, I'll hold that back.
And I feel like any of them happen.
And I'll see him.
I'm like, man, man, that would be good if he went like this.
I'll always go for it.
I'm like self-cursed a little bit.
Do you ever watch professional wrestling?
I used to not do ever.
I saw it like this year.
I fucking love it.
So when you're doing these things, when you're going on these content moments, you can check in with us and be like, hey, guys, I'm playing this up for X reason.
What I'm just trying to say is, I think perhaps you don't feel the need to change or examine your behavior and the way that you deal with other content creators because you don't think that they're real humans.
You think that they're content creators?
Maybe I project maybe a little bit.
Maybe I see myself in them.
Yeah, perhaps.
And like you have changed for the better in other issues when it comes to broader concepts, like not tolerating homophobia, you know what I mean?
Shit like that.
Whereas you don't have that kind of, you don't kind of, you don't have that kind of internal, authentic internal change with respect to how you treat other content creators around you.
And I think that's where the mismatch happens.
Like that's where we're having a breakdown and dialogue.
So question for you.
Has there ever been a moment where a creator did some shit that pissed you the fuck off and it would have been repaired if they sent you a DM and apologize or something?
Nah.
Never giving a fuck.
Not that I don't give a fuck is that whatever they do, like I know I can fire back harder than nothing will yeah, I don't think anything is gonna be able to penetrate in that regard because he's right.
Like XGC has a massive community, a lot of stands, a lot of die-hard support over years and years of cultivating said community.
So for that reason, it's like nothing is going to actually ever penetrate in the same way that like if he even offhandedly remarks about another content creator, they're automatically smaller.
Right?
Like in the way that you would get owned by the El Rato shit, right?
Back in the chat, he will never.
I mean, I wouldn't get owned anymore.
I've never got owned.
Yeah, people keep saying that actually.
Probably been talking a little too much.
I told you.
I didn't have anything to talk about.
No, you have the good mic for a reason.
Do I actually?
Yes.
We gave him the shit mic.
I think Ludwig's in the wrong.
What?
I'm just glad that...
Bro, I'm your number two, Luffy.
Chill.
So true.
Anyway, but I guess what I was trying to say is you won't ever see the repercussions in a similar way to what you do.
Because we talk about how I think this is a principle you probably believe in.
Treat others how you would expect to be treated, right?
Do you believe in that?
Not really.
Really?
That's crazy.
Why?
Yeah.
Explain why.
Dig into that one.
Well, I don't get it.
I just don't agree with that.
Is that in person or on the web?
I feel like that's like so just overall.
I just feel like it's like mechanical.
It's so mechanical to do.
I'm going to say this.
I have never seen you be rude to anybody in person.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't like confrontation.
I'm not a big confrontational person in person.
Yeah, but it's always non-confrontational.
You're typically quite friendly to people.
Yeah, that's true.
I guess here's a question.
Are you the soft little kitten that bears his claws online?
And that's and that's this is, but you're normally the soft, nice guy, or are you just because you are in person and don't like confrontation, hiding back your true thoughts and you're thinking evil things right now?
Yeah, like when you go out with people, you're like, fuck these man.
Fuck these motherfuckers.
Sometimes I get mad at myself for getting people too many chances in real life.
Also, and I'm like, I like this slide a lot.
But also, there's not a lot of input in real life.
It's just us talking.
Sometimes you're at the club.
You can also avoid the feedback on the internet.
You can just not look at a DM, for example.
Right.
So in real life, it's like slower, but on internet, it should catch on fire.
And then things are like so much gets in.
Right.
And instead of like fighting that and like thinking, no, I gotta call it.
I usually just get consumed and I'm and I go all in.
I have a question.
Yeah.
Do you consider yourself an artist?
In what sense, though?
Is what you're making art?
I think, I think the way I see it is like, it's either all arts or like there's no art type of thing.
Right.
So I guess I guess as both an artist and a nobody.
Yeah.
Do you guys understand that or not?
Yeah.
Follow-up.
Okay, yeah.
If you could make one perfect piece of art, what is it?
What piece of art in this space?
Are you making a movie?
Are you making a song?
Are you painting something?
Are you making a game show?
I'm making the most explosive, disastrous live drama that everybody's like consensual in it.
Oh, you did it.
And then your reach is like, congratulations.
Crazy shit.
My guy's done it.
You've done it already.
So you are like a classic instigator.
You like to get a rise out of people.
Yeah, like that.
Have you ever gone back and watched like Andy Kaufman stuff?
I don't know who that is.
He's a comedian who had a very similar sensibility that he thought like the best or highest form of art was like agitating people.
Okay.
I mean, not, okay, I don't want to agitate them, right?
I want it to be more consensual, something that like we're both in it already.
And I'm not coming out of the book and being like, man, your hat's fucking ugly, man.
Like, why is it so fucking ugly?
You are right, man.
It's all good.
On sale for a reason, bro.
Damn.
Okay, well, but okay, so that makes sense though or not.
Here's a question though.
With what I said earlier with the wrestling take, right?
Yeah.
If you're never getting like the consent of people to enter into firebrand drama, which I don't think many people would want to enter.
How can you make something like in that drama space that people on the other half of that want to entertain?
Because typically because they're bad at it.
Can you explain the consent?
What do you mean by that?
The consent?
Yeah.
Well, it's like you're already partaking in an action that's almost pseudo or directly.
It's like you're already in something with somebody.
Like you both know what you're getting into.
Yeah.
A topic is already on hand.
They're already in something.
Like an Among Us game are already in it.
Right.
So drama related to that is not like I'm instigating it.
I'm not going to have the woodwork saying some dumb shit.
So what you guys happened was consensual.
I think that someone like myself can absolutely take it.
And I think you kind of understand that.
Even though I do personally feel upset about the way that what I considered our friendship to be has turned into this disastrous thing, I am one of the very few people who also has a large enough community that, you know, when you are saying like you're a snake, you're a clout shark, all this shit, it doesn't really, it's nothing I haven't heard before.
Half the time, you're literally repeating things that people on Reddit are saying, no matter how ridiculous they are.
So I can still take it.
So that's understandable to a certain degree.
I can tank it, but many people can't, especially smaller content creators can't.
Even if they call you out, and I think you understand that because you're like, well, you know, if someone stoops low, I got to stoop low as well.
And I got to fight or I'll stoop lower.
Toxic Gameplay Dynamics00:05:54
That's what I'm saying.
But then you also understand the consequences of action.
We go lower.
Michelle.
Michelle always said that.
Yeah.
But you also understand the consequences of that because you have apologized publicly in certain instances.
Can I ask your question?
Yeah.
When things get really out of hand.
Well, I want to say one more thing.
There you go.
I've always said it.
Like I always say, okay, I think mixing size in this is like really hard because I understand that now it's like that.
Right.
But this has been something like it's like doubling down on being wrong.
I'm like quadrupling down being wrong, right?
Or like, it's nothing that I've done because I have more power bigger these days.
I've always done shit like that like this, right?
And I was like the known.
But back in the New Washing days, I was in something called Pro Talk, right?
Only pros could talk.
And I was just waiting for the day that I could be in there just to talk shit to people that are bigger than me.
Right.
And the day I got in, I just started saying some shit and I made drama that was so bad I'd get kicked out and then the guy who owned the Discord would reinvite me when things would get stale and boring and I would fucking sit up again, right?
And I was like a nobody.
I was like 200 of you or Andy, whatever.
I was Josh telling these like big like thousand like big guys, right?
And I just I just found fun in that.
I just I just think it's fun.
Do you think that's part of your identity as a competitor?
As a person.
Well, one of the most famous athletes of all time is Reggie Miller, right?
And I don't know if you've ever heard of Reggie Miller, but his gift as a basketball player was he would destroy the mental of the people around him.
He's famous for beating my team, the New York Knicks, by basically just picking them apart and getting our point guard to like punch him in the head and get ejected.
And so like that was his gift.
When did you start like wanting to become a shit talker in a fire brand?
Oh, it's always been like that.
Since you were like a child.
I'm like eight years old, the Halo almost.
Really?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
My brother used to set up a camera, like a hidden camera, like an actual, not like a fake one, an actual one back in the days.
And he used to film me talking shit on Halo when I was like 10 years old.
I think to lead to your parents?
I think this speaks to his success in the space as well, because there are a lot of people in the gaming space that behave in the exact same capacity where they're like, I'm just a troll.
Because you can be completely removed from the consequences of your actions.
You don't ever have to think about anyone in your Call of Duty lobby as a real human being.
You're just like blasting off.
Carl is shaking his head because he's like, yeah, me too, man.
I've been in those lobbies.
But I played with Carl Valorant for the first time and you were relentless.
He is gamer first.
His first language is gamer first.
He's so talking.
Yeah, it's pretty funny.
No slurs.
No slurs to be clear, but wildly toxic.
That's actually not a bit.
I'm the worst human on the planet when it comes to it.
Really?
Wait, I did not know that.
No, yeah.
It was funny, but it was like, because he's such a sweet person, but then the other person in the game is not a human to him.
I will admit that I am like a don't fire till fired upon.
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
Like in me?
Wow.
But once someone opens up that all chat, I'm saying wildly, if it's on like, if it's like a British person, you know what I'm saying?
Carl's around two all-chatting.
Valorant, someone wrote, Valorant, we were playing, someone wrote force forfeit.
Like someone wrote all chat FF after winning four wins.
I muted myself.
I didn't want him to hear it because I can't actually get across that message across to him eloquently.
But on my stream, I was just straight up like, I would find your IP address.
I would consensually fuck your mom and make sure that your mom and dad are divorced.
And then your dad would go into a deep depression and lose the house and would no longer be able to have a job and pay the mortgage.
But I also need to wait till the other party in it.
Yes, I definitely.
Someone needs to fire back first.
I don't know.
See, I disagree with all of you guys on that.
Okay.
I think people are losing their minds when I think they can only be toxic verbally.
I think you can do toxic fucking gameplay or not talking about just you can start something by just playing the game a certain way.
Okay.
Oh, yeah.
Like, yeah, like if you're in the game in a league and you're doing your first camp, okay, and your bot lane comes in and steals your red, like that, that's fucking annoying.
Like you're a, you're a, you're a cucklord and he's gonna say, oh, wow, you're talking shit that you started.
No, you didn't, no, I didn't.
Would you consider that something that would entice you to be toxic?
If they do an action in a game that's toxic, I will leave.
He calls it depression.
He's going to go fucking have a reasonable test.
So you're not firing back on words only.
No, there's some things you can do that can make 100%.
This is an all-play question for everybody.
Okay.
Okay.
We've all established.
Is that a seen it term?
Yeah.
We've all established that we're unbelievably toxic.
Yes.
It comes in video games.
Yes.
But this is a quality that is manifested ubiquitously, right?
This is kids, young adults, men, women, all across the spectrum have this capacity to be toxic on the internet.
But we've seen in all of us in person, we're like obnoxiously decent people, right?
Do you think that our toxicity is right there?
I don't know about that.
Ratone.
Do you think our toxicity on the internet is a manifestation of us suppressing our natural impulses as a as a like a symptom of polite society?
He's saying we should be more primal and duke it out.
It's fun, dude.
Yeah, I don't see this that way.
I feel like real life and internet and being online is like so different, right?
That you can compare like your human thing or whatever you do when you're in person to whatever you're in the game.
What if what happens then as the internet becomes closer akin to real life, right?
Intentive.
Then you're going to be people are going to be kinder than that.
Do you think so?
Yeah.
I mean, if you're getting closer to real life.
If you had your government name on there, nobody would be saying 90% of the shit they're saying.
Primal Internet Violence00:03:42
What do you guys think?
What's up?
I mean, even in real life, you could fuck me up.
You could one-tap me.
I'll still call you certain names or whatever, right?
Because all the way down, he's fucking a fucking.
You're a rat.
You're a snake.
Snake.
Snake.
Carl is actually sneaky.
3v2, we win.
3v2?
Only because Carl's there.
Yeah.
I'll go 2v1.
I won't.
To be clear, it'd be 1v2 and we'd be watching.
Because I'd be winning.
Wait, 3v2, both of us?
My boy just figured out numbers.
Oh, I thought you meant 3v1.
Yeah, that's just me.
I was like, I had Farley on the squad.
Wait, wait, wait.
No, no shot.
3v2 is so.
I solo Hassan.
It's game over.
I solo Will because we start making out.
I take him out.
They're just fucking, dude.
No shot.
He was like, I'm in.
I'm going to help in a second.
No shot.
I can go for hours.
Okay.
Gay stuff aside.
We'll do more of that.
Can we go back to being homophobic?
Like, figuring out shit.
What I'm saying is that even though I know you can fuck me up, right?
You're probably not going to do it, right?
Well, on the internet, it's not like I'm not going to talk to you because you have my real name or you have my real life address.
Does that make sense?
Did you ever play sports?
I did solo sports a lot.
Okay.
In soccer, like that was the only thing I liked doing was fucking with people.
Chirping people?
Oh, yeah.
Like when you just start pinching them and shit.
I love chirping on the bed.
You were that guy?
Dude, there was a terrible thing.
Oh, I hated that, man.
There was a guy that threw me to the ground and started kicking me and told me he was going to put me in a wheelchair.
You're Reggie Miller.
Yeah, you're Reggie Miller.
Dude, that is...
I hated that guy.
It was awesome, though.
Fucking...
I sneezed and wiped my nose on his shoulder.
No, I'm literally, I'm getting PTSD flashbacks of high school basketball right now.
What you're describing is...
Why are you not this monster in the online space?
You're sweetie.
Well, we've heard that he is.
No, but as a creator.
Oh, as a creator.
What do you mean?
You don't do...
You're not sneezing on people metaphorically.
I think that XUC does.
Or at least it doesn't make the fun.
To be fair, I feel like I don't do a lot of competitive stuff.
I feel like he's very more competitive in general.
Among Us is not competitive, dog.
I used to be like that.
Just make teams catch on fire by saying and doing stuff.
Yeah.
Right.
So I would like all my stream and I would make a caricature of a certain team.
I'd say something about them, right?
And become like a meme.
And then it would like, it would like into their heads a little bit about that meme, right?
Like one day we used to play something called Selfless with the friend.
I don't know if you guys know the friend, Sinatra, whatever.
And Sinatra was doing, it was carrying me hard.
And I called him Sinatra in the trash cans.
It was only him good.
Anybody was talking about it.
The Natra and the Trump.
You got Trump levels of name clips.
It got their heads.
And, you know, there's a bunch of stuff like that.
It's just, I don't know.
To be clear, I mean, again, the guy threw me to the ground, started kicking me.
I'm going to put you in a wheelchair.
He got the red card.
He's out.
Now we're playing 11 versus 10.
Reggie Miller.
Easy.
My man won his soccer games.
So you think it's because of lack of competition, there's no reason to treat people like that.
When I played GTARP, I was annoying.
Wait, really?
There's not even a competition.
That was like the worst.
I guess that's not competitive.
There's nothing competitive with GTR.
It's just the funniest shit on the web.
But technically, we're all competing then in that sense then.
Technically, if you're all streaming and we're all or playing game, you're still competing one way or another.
To be fair, there is like an underlying, everybody's competing to be making content in GTRP, right?
Who's the funniest?
Who's the most captivating?
Who's the most enigmatic?
Real Life vs Game00:10:07
I guess you can take it further.
I don't see it like that.
I don't even see that like that.
Even as a goblin of content at that person, I feel like, as I say to myself, even I don't do that in GTA in other games.
I don't even agree with that, right?
Because I can be on the sidelines and capture the thing properly for my audience.
My favorite close is when you go into the back of the truck and then he starts crashing.
I love that shit so much.
Yeah.
Just capture.
I don't have to be in the center of it to have good content for my viewers.
I think I want them to have content.
I don't want to be the content all the time.
So if the content is good and I can make it in a way that it's good in the watch, I'm winning it.
I guess my argument, I wasn't saying you being the content or is your channel.
Oh, yeah.
Anyway, but going back to like, you know, looking at people as like disposable stepping stones or whatever, with respect to like, you know, competitive gaming or whatever, yeah, there's an element of anonymity.
You don't know who the fucking other person is.
That's understandable.
But there are people you create content with that you do know that are in the space and they will never and I think you know this as well.
Ludwig mentioned this in my chat, which was misconstrued, where like you recognize your place in the space and you recognize where other people's places are in the space as well with respect to the both the power dynamic and also like what they can do back to you.
And I think that when you are at the top, which you are, I think that there's a certain responsibility that comes with that power where you shouldn't, like I, this is my genuine feeling.
You shouldn't use that in a way that harms other people.
You can still be toxic, especially to people who can take it, especially people who are like, you know, there's a brief back and forth with, but I do think that like it gets out of hand when it ends up impacting other people in a, you know, sometimes very harmful way.
I mean, that's tough then because then it's, then it's just, it's just, it's just going to be losses, like losses in all ways, if you can think about it.
I think it's a loss of content.
It's a loss of everything because then I feel like if this is, okay, I'm gin up by this.
I think this is not dumb.
I just disagree with it on a massive level.
It's like, okay, well, now I have a weapon because now I'm bigger, right?
So then I don't do that, right?
So then I kind of wait and do less things until I guess I'm smaller.
And oh, now I'm smaller.
I have less.
I have no weapon anymore.
Fuck it.
Go back to it again.
And I get big enough.
Then go back to small and fuck it up again.
No, no, I don't see that.
No, no, no.
You misunderstood me.
I wasn't saying you should get smaller and then you can do it.
But if he did get smaller, would it be okay if he did it?
I guess.
No, even in that.
If he has a thousand viewers, is it fine if he does what he does?
Well, if he has a thousand viewers, the impact is softened, right?
It's like the difference between someone who is a higher weight class punching at people.
It's like punching down versus punching up.
If you're Mike Tyson and you get into a scuffle, you have to carry yourself a certain way, knowing full well that if you actually fucking unload on someone, you're going to kill them, right?
And you are, in this respect, the Mike Tyson of street fighting, right?
So you have to carry yourself even when it feels unjust.
And I do this as well.
There are smaller content creators.
fucking bite at me way more than they do at you.
There's an entire fucking, there is an entire cottage industry of people who like will hunt down every single thing that I say, misconstrue it, or look at it in the least charitable way possible and get even up to millions of views.
Pokemon gets this a lot too.
You can hear some of those criticisms from XUC as well.
He's repeated many of them over the past week.
But like I said.
That's like spare ammo.
You know, whenever I do it, it's like kind of like the pipeline of like, oh, I'm going to say a couple real good things and I'm going to get the L on the ground that people have laid out.
I'm going to fucking, I'm going to put it back in a gun and fucking fire it.
You alting and picking up everything you see on the ground and then using it.
He's like a kid.
He's used to this kid.
He's a fucked up.
He's a gamer's offense.
Yeah, it is because it just perpetuates memes and stereotypes.
I don't believe in it either.
And none of those things are like not a single one of those things are true.
But now you got 60,000 motherfuckers in there going, oh my God, he's right.
This guy is a fucking idea.
I think it's dumb to say things you don't think are true.
I think it's just dumb.
I think it's chill to roast, but like if you don't even believe it, then it's like, are you making other people believe the shit you don't believe?
Yeah, that's correct.
That is fucked up, especially if you have a personal relationship with the other person that you're involved in.
Don't ask for permission, but seek forgiveness guy.
I think that asking for permission limits you in a lot of ways from things that you want to do.
But it is why sometimes I am a piece of shit.
But I think it's very well.
I was joking.
I think there's areas where I don't, and I seek forgiveness rather than asking for permission to do something because I think it's better the moment.
Like if you have to ask permission to do everything you want to fucking do, you're going to be bogged down.
It's going to suck.
It's going to be slow.
I agree with you.
Well, it is important to do the second.
But if I did, I would seek forgiveness regardless because I think that's the way to like.
There are lines that you will never cross with.
You never say something you don't.
Okay.
I also have a line about things that I'll say that I don't believe in it that aren't as bad.
I feel like whenever I'll say something that I don't believe in, I don't think are true.
People have said, right?
That are like half memes, half truth, whatever, that are going to explode in his face.
Well, I'm not going to go stupid the lowest possible.
Like since I know you, I know as low as possible.
For other people, I will, right?
But for you, something that I've repeated are bad, but not disastrous.
Like, I don't know, same like fucking Hassan Grifter Kami.
That's like something you sound ridds, right?
But does that make you actually mauled?
It doesn't make me actually mauled.
It does get really annoying because that is unironically something that people like cut content out of and you're just validating their feelings.
There are people who legitimately believe that because there are so many other content creators who have made videos like this.
So there's a difference between you dropping that and like him making like a funny fucking remark when he's next to me.
You know what I mean?
When he says like dumb shit like that.
It's like me saying he's racist or whatever.
I think the well, which is dumb shit, that isn't true.
Okay, except that is true.
I think memes are more powerful than like the backtrack.
No, the backtrack to fix it.
So like the Pepe Pains meme for Ludwig.
That shit sticks.
And I remember I was in his chat donating $400 to try to get him to play a trailer on stream.
And then everyone chatted Pepe Painting and you saw it and you go, which is very sweet.
And zero effect because I will still be the Pepe Pains guy.
But that is not something that you often do either.
That's not a lot.
Actually, many people don't know that.
Why do you like me so much?
That's a good take.
Why do you stop them from hitting me?
Okay, this is not a fucking answer.
We know that already.
Respects you and he doesn't other people.
That's the main point.
And we'll get to that in a second.
But like the Pepe Painting thing is a great example because everyone always went with like, oh, the tier list.
That's why XQ, that's why I saw and like cried about XQC or whatever.
It was not that.
A week prior to that, I had actually brought this exact same thing up where I saw in certain communities, including your chat, people were just like fucking shredding me all the time.
And as a content creator, you can very easily just be like, dude, shut the fuck up.
You're being ridiculous.
You guys are being ridiculous.
Something that I do all the time, you know, because of my own personal principles.
When people, for example, say, like, XQC is homophobic.
Remember what he did in 2016?
I'll be like, that's fucking bullshit, right?
Because I know that's not true.
And even if we are on good terms or bad terms, doesn't fucking matter.
If it's the truth, then I'm going to, you know, address it, respond to it.
So that is actually something that I had brought up even before the tier list thing where I was like, your community is one where like there's a lot of hate that gets farmed.
And that turns into legitimate hatred.
You might not recognize it as such.
You're just thinking like, it's just the meme.
But that is actually a lot of people out there that like are stalkers, psychos, all these other people that are in these communities, like waiting for an opportunity for like someone with a even if it's fake resentment to pop off so that they can weaponize that, which they did.
Okay, okay, okay.
I just didn't think it was, it was that far or like some of the intense.
Like, am I, am I incorrect in this?
I think that for most people, it's not.
I think for Hassan specifically, it's magnified in a weird way.
Pokey too, yeah.
But I think you like our special case where like the fucking uh fish Farley dog thing.
Like consistently, there are people who will attack you for anything that they view as weakness from you.
And so if they can take XQC and echo a sentiment to make you feel weak, they'll do it.
And I don't necessarily think that that fosters new people.
I think it just reinforces the people who are already no, but when there's a lot of drama, even if it's completely manufactured and even is bullshit, then your brand is forever tarnished with that because like there are a lot of people who are just not really paying attention.
Yeah.
Because I don't expect them to, obviously.
Everybody has fucking real lives.
And they go, oh, that guy, isn't he problematic?
Oh, that guy.
He's in a lot of controversy all the fucking time.
It's like, it doesn't matter.
I didn't fucking make it.
I didn't manufacture it.
But okay, that is a no, that's a valid one, right?
No, no, no.
That is a valid one.
Okay, no, that's a no.
I will stand by that.
It is an absolutely valid one, right?
Whereas like the house thing or the car thing or the fucking Gucci shirt thing or any number, any tier list thing.
Like these are all things that blow the fuck up in ways that it's not supposed to.
What the fuck?
It would never blow up in any other content creator.
Like you bought a fucking McLaren, right?
You can't even drive it.
Yeah, that's GigaChat.
Easy.
Yeah.
Easy clap.
And everyone was like, Giga Chat, Easy Clap.
I buy a fucking Porsche, which is like well within my range of purchase, right?
It's like a reasonable car for me to be able to purchase.
Everyone's like, dude, fuck this guy.
Now, that's not your fault, right?
Navigating Nuclear Controversy00:12:41
And you're not even leaning into that, but you recognize that that's in the space.
Same with Poke.
No matter what he does, no matter what Pokey does, people are going to try to fucking twist it in a way because there's like a viable cottage industry of hatred.
Can I say something controversial?
I think it's partially okay to say all those things about streamers because we are all multi-millionaire.
I think it's fine to make fun of all of them.
I don't disagree.
I don't disagree.
There is a line.
Sometimes it gets past it.
Yes.
There's a line.
If you know how to do it.
That line has been crossed many times in ways that I can't even find.
I'm specifically referring to the things that you brought up of Porsche, Gucci shirt, things like that.
You got to spy to make fun of you.
But if I know for a fact that this is like a stalker or something that bad intentions that go past the computer, right?
Or even too hard going to the computer.
You know what I'm saying?
Like the extremes, right?
Then I would never do that.
Yes.
I present as I do that.
Let's say this room, right?
And this room is just, there's a fire in here, right?
Right.
And basically, one thing is that whenever you're bannering somebody or like attacking them, like in small, I know for a fact there's a fire in here, and I can open a door a little bit, right?
So that he can edit it.
And I feel like if I do something like that, right?
That's what I'm doing.
I'm opening the door a little bit because I know there's a fucking fire in here.
And there's a bunch of people that see things this way.
And I'm like, hey, guys, remember this?
Does that make sense?
It's like the Ninetales gate with Naruto, and you're opening it a little bit for a little bit of chakra.
Yeah.
But if I knew it was that bad and that dark, then I wouldn't push those boundaries.
Do you think you have a good gauge?
Do you think you know how widely the door can be opened?
Decent.
It's not fantastic.
Sometimes I make mistakes, but I think it's decent.
Do you think you try to improve it if you think if you know it's bad at certain times?
I generally do.
You do?
Yeah.
I think a good example is that was really bad.
That was really bad.
Okay.
The other day, okay.
I opened up.
I was like fucking 20 hours into my stream.
I opened up fucking pokey streams.
I don't know what she's doing.
And it's just her chair.
Okay.
And then I fucking sniff her chair.
Okay.
And I was like, oh my God, that is so fucking dumb.
And I'm like, I'm like, I get it that she sees things a certain way.
She's not going to get mad at me.
Right.
So I sent her a DM.
You sent her a DM to apologize.
Yes.
And then I was like, you know what?
That was really fucking dumb.
If you want to do anything from this point on, I mean, you deserve to have to do whatever you want, right?
You can get mad at me publicly.
You got to have whatever stance, right?
I did something wrong with it.
And a story.
That's just, it was kind of fucked up because I know for a fact that in my gauge of knowing how things are on the internet, I know some people are really fucking weird and do really weird shit, right?
Like, I don't want to make things weird, but you know, like fucking like tributes or some shit.
Right, right, right, right.
Disgusting shit.
Yes.
Right.
And you know what she, like, home tribute.
It's a real thing.
It's a real thing.
Every demo creator deals with it.
Yeah.
So even if it's like my date was really bad, it's like, okay, that was a good meme kind of thing, right?
Because I know her and I kind of know like people on the personality.
The meme would have been great two months ago.
And then I'm like, fuck, wait.
Hilarious even.
People like this, but like they bring it way past the screen and they go fucking crazy about it.
I'm like, wait, that was slightly irresponsible.
So I do improve them on my meter.
And whenever things do go bad, I think I do better nowadays.
Let's keep trying.
So you apologize for that.
Is there anything in the drama with Hassan and that whole situation you think you should have apologized for on hindsight?
That you didn't?
I went way too hard on small stuff.
Did I blue out of proportion?
Yes.
Okay, I think everybody could agree to that.
You guys fought for two hours, about 38 seconds.
Yes.
That was the second part of it.
The first part of it, we were having a less productive and yet more fun overall conversation about like, you know, that was more so content before the serious stuff.
See, I don't mind that.
Yeah, I don't mind the, I don't mind the, I don't mind the other shit where we're like talking about.
Wait, wait, what are you apologizing for?
That's not that thing?
Where do you think he went too hard?
I think he's saying he went too far with the like using clips that Destiny was feeding him that would like already clipped out of fucking context.
Look at him smiling.
Destiny was in your fucking ear.
He was like a little figure.
He literally was like a limiter.
Yes.
Yes.
He was like getting clips, like bringing up like Gusano and she was just so stupid.
Don't say it, please.
And okay.
My mother's fan.
Okay.
So my podcast is on YouTube.
I can say we're going to YouTube.
It becomes all right.
You're welcome.
No, Cracker is not allowed to do it.
It's such a pleasure to have you here.
No, it's all kind of alt, right, for him to say that's saying crack.
Yeah, literally.
We all go around and say our favorite slurry on YouTube.
But that was like, that was deliberate.
That was, you know, you were weaponizing whatever you could at that moment.
You were angry.
You were frustrated.
That definitely did go far and way beyond us having a conversation about like me thinking you're a bad friend and you not like reaching out to people ahead of time for it or you saying that like that goes way beyond the pale like the way I unloaded into you for that.
Like that stuff is understandable.
We can have a back and forth on that shit even though people weaponize that.
Even though people weaponize that and like use that against me and like do insane shit, which they always do.
But yes, going beyond that and being like, you did not react appropriately to Adriana's like that one out of Adriana Lee.
Sorry.
Train Rex's insane tweet.
Right.
Which I still maintain to be an insane one.
So can we then little insider baseball?
What is the dream scenario?
Like for both of you because you like instigating you like drama.
The scenario is that whenever things get really fucking things get heated.
Okay.
And like he's getting fed bad information, reacts really badly.
I do the same.
Then we go offline.
We don't send DMs.
And then he talks offline chat.
I offline chat.
He sub tweets or tweets on his fucking alt account and we go balls mode, right?
But that wasn't a sub tweet.
That's fine.
That's the fun.
He's saying he likes this.
He's saying he likes it.
I'm asking for his dream scenario.
By the way, which, by the way, that was not a sub tweet.
I directly called you out.
The reason why I did it on my alt account is because my main account is followed by like AOC and Sanitarius and shit.
They don't know who the fuck you are or any of that stuff.
Dude, what's that?
Still damn.
AOC loves that.
I think that's still in the context, right?
We can save it with a, like, like a, like a half therapy content-driven reconnection.
Yeah, that, that part, that part is an understandable conversation that we can have.
Yes.
Okay.
Even though I do think that it's the thing that went wrong and I still see you as a peer that we could work things out in that way.
Is that good?
Can you admit one more thing?
Yeah.
You put the shit campers in an impossible situation.
Yes.
Okay.
But none of the whole series of events was intentional, but the result is so bad and then it becomes irrelevant.
I totally get it.
I get it.
But you've never kind of admitted that like we knew what was going on.
Yes.
But we're not going to fucking out you.
Yes.
So you know, we didn't even know at first.
At first, you guys didn't know.
I didn't know what to do.
I knew pretty early.
But there was a lot of things at the same time.
Right.
And I didn't vocalize that well at all.
I thought I suspected it was family shit because I saw that was already really bad.
I suspected it was family shit, which is why I was like, I literally said in that tweet very specifically, like, there's probably something more going on behind the scenes that we don't know about.
But even then, I think it's like still fucked up.
So next time, because I love Cutie Cinderella.
We're having an affair.
What the?
Can we talk about that?
I'm just hearing it out.
Okay, crazy.
Cutie's one of my favorite people in the world.
I think we all get like a little talking about tribalist, right?
I get a little tribalist about Cutie because I've known her for so long.
She's so wonderful.
And they're in a relationship.
I'm trying to see the stress on a woman who is already so stressed.
She's like a human not.
And that immediately like wanted me to just, I just wanted you so bad to be like, hey, guys, I can't go to shit camp for other reasons.
And that's all you had to say.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, I'll tell you then, it's not an excuse.
It's not an explanation of how it happened in my head.
Yeah.
Which most thoughts when I go that deep are dog shit.
I'm telling you that it's dogs.
I'm not telling you, well, it's like this because like that.
And I'm not going to like, you're not giving an excuse.
You're telling us your reason that led you to I'm telling you my flawed, I'm not giving you my reasoning.
I'm telling you my flawed reasoning.
Yeah.
I kind of like horseshoeed myself, right?
Where something becomes so bad.
Yeah.
Go to the other side of the world.
The thing is, we get it.
Yeah, but even then, even then.
So when you do get it and you did it, I can like apologize or whatever, right?
I can kind of fix it.
And I was like, oh man, I did so fucked up and I ignored it also so much that now I don't even want like Badbird is so burned.
I don't even want to see the fireburner.
I'm just going to double down.
So now I'm ignoring them.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
He lived a match like Ashley and he's like, oh, fuck.
I can't go in there.
But now my apologies are not going to be good enough because I'm fucking dumb.
I'd better not apologize, make them feel bad for it.
No, that's way worse.
Ignore them.
Okay, I'm letting you know that's like so much worse.
There's always like an exit.
He's acknowledged that he's letting us know that.
And we're telling you that there's always an exit ramp.
You might not feel like it, but there's always an exit ramp.
And like, I can perfectly map it out for you.
Obviously, the best possible scenario is like you immediately inform QD ahead of time.
I got family stuff going on.
Please don't mention it.
So that's exit ramp number one, right?
Right.
That didn't happen.
Let's say you double down, you burn it down, right?
You're like, well, you know, I didn't do anything wrong there or whatever.
The second exit ramp would still be, again, reaching out to QT or reaching out to even Ludwig by way of QT or reaching out to QT directly or anyone else to be like, I fucked up and I doubled down.
It's all good.
Something that you do already, like you just mentioned that you did with Pokey, you could do even no matter how fucking nuclear the situation is.
Because the people that you're dealing with are not bystanders in a video game.
They're real human beings.
And they also are themselves flawed.
So they understand deep down inside that you can be flawed as well.
You're also a big content creator.
You have a lot of clout.
You have a big audience.
That is going to be one of the reasons why people will treat you with kitty gloves.
That's the truth.
And you understand that.
You know that.
Am I wrong?
The reason.
Okay.
You're right.
You're right.
But I don't want to be treated that way, right?
Kind of thing.
And I'm going to say deliberately.
I will deliberately make them feel bad for it.
Yeah, that's why I do that.
I do that.
I think you are someone who very instantly gets over the things that you say or do or are said or done to you.
Yeah, the next day.
The next day, you've forgotten about it.
And that's not how everyone operates.
And you're also okay operating in a universe where you have burned bridges, but you are also at the same time reaping the benefit that every single person gives you one more chance than they should because of how large of a creator you are.
Really?
You reap the reward.
Yes, I think so.
I think everyone will give you at least one more chance than they would have if you were someone who was.
And that's part of the problem is like, we know you.
The audience doesn't know like why you're making these decisions.
We do.
And that's even more infuriating.
When we're like, oh my God, why is he toppling down?
We know he doesn't even believe this shit.
And you are so powerful at being able to gaslight so many fucking kids that like they literally were defending you on the internet for being like a bad person, which you yourself have recognized.
Like they were like, nah, he's bad.
It's fine that he's bad.
You guys are fucking idiots for even inviting him.
I was like losing my fucking mind.
I'm like, it's not even about me at that point.
It's someone that I care about.
And I, and I know that no one else is going to say anything.
And I would have 100% had this conversation with you in private if you were susceptible to that sort of thing at that stage.
I was at a layer four at that point where they would just be like, I was trying to reach out to you in private.
Nothing is happening.
I don't even know what you're talking about.
Like I'm just confused.
Yeah.
Hey, Billy Ravebrains, are we an hour?
All right, guys, we're going to take a bathroom break.
We're going to get situated when we come back.
We're going to do the second half of the part.
Where can everybody, what do you guys want to plug before we end it and go into the painwalled content at patreon.com slash fear and where we're going to look at and Tony Brown's dick and many other things.
First and foremost, go to carljacobs.co.
Incompatible Friendships00:02:43
Yeah.
Weapons at one hour mark.
Is it anything becomes paywalled?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you can unload.
Go crazy.
So we'll come back naked.
Yeah, we do that, actually.
We'll do a size check in the primo.
Okay.
All right.
Guys, thank you for joining us today on fear.
And we before we wrap.
Have we made any steps towards friendship today?
Honestly.
Oh, wait.
I didn't say that.
I got a legitimate...
So something that's, yeah, I knew that.
You knew that.
I didn't know Hassan saw things the way I like when people see that way.
Where like, okay, yeah, we can make like a half con and half therapy, like fun banter.
Like we're still kind of mauled and I kind of, I kind of hate you still.
And kind of hate me a little bit, right?
But we kind of snowballed and we can still find some small middle ground and grow from that.
You are excited at the prospect of an equal partner in the field of drama.
Yeah.
I mean, look, I can, well, that, that still has like a human component behind it, though, which we can talk about.
But we'll dive in, but that's something he got out of this.
What did you get out of this, Hassan, if anything?
I mean, I guess I got a similar perspective that we were of the same mindset that when we were debating our friendship, which was like a fuck up in many ways for a lot of people, that was still drama, but had lower stakes than like something that ends up becoming like a like a genuine issue that strikes at the heart of like what I believe in.
You know what I mean?
Like minimizing sexual assault victims.
Will, what about you?
Well, this has only reaffirmed something that I believe in profoundly is that communication and honesty is at the core of so many things.
No, he was going to, no, he's going to be like, dreamers are dog shit people.
That's what I believe in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
And I also feel like sometimes, sometimes this is kind of crazy, but I'll say it.
Sometimes some people are just not compatible.
Yeah.
Literally.
Sometimes it just doesn't.
You're going to try to work it out and do certain things and set aside your things to put more place for them.
It just doesn't work out.
It happens.
That's it.
True.
I don't see a song like that.
Generally.
He does see you like that.
Do you?
No, I think, no, I think that, look, I mean, we were friends for a while.
Yeah, but it's possible to become an incompatible.
No, I agree.
I think that it happened over a very long period of time.
And, you know, there's still a lot of things that are unaddressed, but I mean, there was a reason for it in the beginning.
You know what I mean?
I don't think it was because like, I don't think it was because of numbers or anything like that.
Ignoring People Is Bad00:04:19
There is a XQC off-camera that I think that we all, you know, originally saw and took a liking to.
A little sweetie.
You are a little sweetie.
Which is crazy.
But it doesn't matter.
I hung out with you.
I don't even know if you'll remember this.
It was shit con, the original.
Oh, shit.
And you had, like, you chugged like your first two beers and you hadn't slept in like two days.
And I don't even know if you remember this.
You had me tuck you in on the couch.
I don't remember.
Because you were so sleepy.
You're like, I thought I was just going to take a nap.
And I talked to you and you're like, thanks, dude.
I was like, do you need anything?
Like, can I have a water?
And I gave you water.
You're like, good meeting.
You will.
And you slept for like six hours.
Oh, shit.
Con.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
One thing I will call you out on specifically on this, though, is the time you fucking get your come up as well.
Okay.
You are being a little cowardly here because what XQC, who XQC is, who Felix is in private and in personal circles is nowhere near as impactful as who XQC is on camera.
That is the part that is significantly more important with the way that you conduct yourself around other content creators in the space and with even people that you would consider to have a personal relationship with.
I don't think you've called that out enough by just saying he's just a sweetie because you and I have had a conversation before where we talked about like racist content creators like where we are in agreement that even if someone is fucking racist in private, like when they're not racist in public, you've softened that damage a lot because that is how it content.
Do you guys hang out with racists all the time?
No.
But I'm saying.
You guys hang out with me.
He is a YouTuber, so there is that.
But the argument there is basically like, not that we're hanging out with races, but like even if a content creator, even if you've like eliminated their...
Can I rephrase because you're taking them all here?
Can I get you?
Let me get you.
Let me get you.
Because we talked about this.
I remember this.
Who the fuck do you think?
Well, he's asking me to address it.
I thought I'd get there.
He just cut you off first.
I'm saying that someone being not racist on camera just because it would immediately de-platform you is an overall good, even if behind closed doors you are racist.
Yeah.
And that's why when we come back with the premium content slur tier list, it's going to be what I the things I don't like about Felix and the things that I do think that he needs to work.
I desperately have to pee.
Wait, Carl needs to say his thoughts.
The whole thing was Carl, you go pee, go pee.
Go pee, go pee.
You go pee while you do.
Carl was the middle ground guy who's supposed to say what he thought because he didn't know any of this.
First of all, I want to make an apology as well because I haven't been innocent in this whole situation.
What?
Cutie DM'd me and asked me if I wanted to go to shit camp and I forgot to respond at all.
Oh, forgot my ass, bro.
Nobody cares about that.
Nobody damn me.
Ignoring people is not bad.
God damn it.
Okay.
First of all, you think that's true?
Ignoring people is bad, you piece of shit.
No ignoring people is bad.
I'm sorry.
When you're comparing, ignore somebody to tell them you're going to show up and you don't is a disaster.
So you're saying you're not going to compare X to be declared.
You're a monster.
X is like, you're not even close to me.
You'll never get on my fucking level.
You get like really low.
I would fucking wait.
You don't know the things I've done.
Rookie lumbers.
All right, we'll be back in the primo.
Fair and just when it comes down to some of these topics, like even when the Andrew Titcher was popping off, I was still wide against his takes when everyone's shitting on me relentlessly for being for being a pro-woman or anti-dog shit and something just take whatever.
And people will say, oh, it's not true.
People flipped on me twice.
Everybody was against me on Dr. Dinos Times.
And who the fuck?
What?
This is what I truly believe.
You know who was against you?
Your community, though.
I know.
That's what we're saying.
So it was a learning curve, right?
Maybe they flipped it because the internet flipped or they flipped it because they failed like doesn't matter.
They kind of flipped to the right side.
And I'm thankful for that, right?
But still, I feel like I'm just in those ways that would give me enough leeway to make decent jokes about it.