INSIDE the J6 Trials with Hannah Claire Brimelow | Guest: Hannah Claire Brimelow | Ep: 311
Steven Crowder scammed? Inside look the January 6th Trials? Today's show is jam-packed with important, conversation-shifting content...
All this and more on today's Slightly Offens*ve...
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What looked like a Patagonia ad, you saw people climbing the walls, showing off their best rock climbing skills, except for the fact that it was January 6th of 2021, and this was not an advertisement.
This was the greatest insurrection in U.S. history.
Some people even say it was the biggest direction for the federal government, as they could finally scapegoat Trump supporters as being the most wicked and the vile among us.
But there's more to the story that continues to be released as a Congress, you know, toes the line of whether they're going to release the other thousands of hours of footage that they've been holding back.
We have a guest today, Hannah Claire Brimlow, who's a writer for Tim Cash.
She'll be on later in the show to discuss some of her findings, the developments in the story.
And guys, you're not going to want to miss it.
But on that note, welcome back to Slightly Offensive.
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Okay, we've got to get into the monologue before our guest comes on because as you know, January 6th is near and dear to my heart.
Not only do I know people, great people who are currently in prison that we've had on this show, but many of you guys know I was followed, tracked, harassed, bank records given over, messages read.
I mean, I've been violated To degrees that I haven't felt since I've lived in Los Angeles.
Now, the fallout from January 6th is just the beginning, and it's just starting to settle over two years later.
Well, the J6 committee is now disbanded.
The court proceedings are still unfolding because the consequences, they're not going to give them up anytime soon.
In fact, it feels like the world was so ready for January 6th to continue that they had to do a second one in Brazil.
Isn't that weird?
And it happened like in the same month, too.
The similarities are something that you should take note of because currently five members of the Proud Boy organization are on trial in Washington, D.C. Our guest tonight, Hannah Claire Brimlow, recently reported literally anyone can go and watch from the audience, but what you'll see is a perfect display of how our nation is fractured.
Now, on one hand, you have the entire weight of our neoliberal globalist government.
I rate that anyone, I mean, anyone would dare move against it.
It is not your right to stand tall and say, I'm not going to take this shit from my government.
Now, you've got to take it.
You've got to take it bent over and you've got to like it.
Now, it is deemed that the members of the Proud Boys, which is now a curse word in the United States, is seditious white supremacists.
We saw recently with two of them who were on this show that the sentences are actually increased simply because of their association with the group.
Sort of like being black in the 1940s in the south of the United States.
This is a mark, like a sort of a scarlet letter.
And it's kind of sad because, on the other hand, you have five ordinary guys who see themselves as American patriots.
And by God, they are, caught up in an event with questionable origins.
And when I say questionable, I mean downright possibly coordinated by the U.S. government.
And I mean this because when I was there and I was documenting it in real time, one of the main things that I pointed out was the lack of response initially by security and also the lack of response during the event.
I mean, I was timing this down to the second and I said, this is nefarious even while it was happening before I even knew what was really going on.
Now, it gets wild because the government's case essentially argues that the Proud Boys plan to storm the Capitol way ahead of time, that they would use whatever means necessary to stop Biden from becoming president.
Now, where exactly, if you're going to make such accusations, is damning evidence for that?
You've got to understand that the feds have amassed hundreds of thousands of text messages, phone calls, social media posts.
They've even looked at your trash cans, documents, shredded files.
I mean, it's kind of insane the levels of scrutiny they've gone to on individuals.
If you guys watched our episode a few weeks ago, you guys would know that through Freedom of Information Act, I also finally got information that they've been hacking my i accounts, my iCloud accounts, looking at my emails, looking at my iMessages.
I mean, it's kind of crazy that in my case, they treated me more extremely and more directly scrutinized than they did the San Bernardino terrorists who actually killed people.
The sad point is, as I'm actually a credentialed journalist, I have the same credential that anybody does.
I can still walk into the Capitol building right now.
I can just flash my badge and walk in.
I've gone to the Capitol multiple times after January 6th, can get through the highest security.
I can go right into the chambers because I have a very high security clearance.
So why am I being investigated?
Well, if that's the treatment you get for being right-wing and a reporter, think about this.
From all of that, the best that they could find on these other people is a few indirect messages saying that they won't let Trump lose.
Considering the fact that it was called Stop the Steal, it's almost ironic that they continue to blame people for discussing stopping the stolen election when in reality they say it's not stolen, but maybe they were just quoting the name of the event.
Now, on the contrary, there's plenty of evidence that January 6th was more of a Fed-led event, sort of like the special Olympics, but for patriots.
And instead of winning medals for being born in a unique way, we're just getting put in prison for our political beliefs.
And we now know that there were several federal informants with the Proud Boys that day.
It's probably a safe bet to assume that they were ones trying to usher everyone inside.
Now, video evidence shows that many of the real Proud Boys were trying to keep people out or never even went into that building at all.
And if these people were the evil, seditious white supremacists who masterminded the entire protest, don't you think that you would see evidence to that?
I mean, wouldn't there be a better organized plan?
Because the Proud Boys even put on better personal events themselves.
I've been to a few in Portland, and it's like they at least had bans.
I mean, if you're going to go have an insurrection, at least have a sick electric guitar solo or something.
Like, make this epic.
Don't just walk in and take over without any actual backup.
And wouldn't there be a treasure trove of text talking about these plans?
The truth is the government needs somebody.
That's the key word.
They need somebody to blame for January 6th because they hyped it up.
They said it was so crazy.
We were all going to die.
The World Economic Forum right now says 250,000 people.
Oh, they're just going to die from climate change if we don't act.
Well, if 250,000 people are going to die from climate change, no wonder we say that dozens of police officers were murdered.
I mean, you talk to the average person out while I'm traveling the world and they think that, you know, perhaps hundreds of people were killed that day.
Because the messaging is what's key.
Now, someone must take the fall for injuring the pride of the homosexuals that run this deteriorating country, make no mistake.
They were embarrassed that day.
For the first time in modern history, they appeared weak because they are.
And I hate to say it, but they're just a bunch of bitches, bro.
That's the reality.
And they appeared exactly like they are.
They had no control.
It's not like the day was good, but you just see they were like hiding in benches.
Pathetic.
In reality, the government only has itself to blame for this horrible display of lack of security.
Even if you want to say people tried to organize something, like, is that really the best you could do to defend yourself?
Come on.
I mean, don't you have some Middle Eastern countries to bomb?
Were you distracted, you know, blowing up a wedding of some brown people overseas that you couldn't notice the fact that a couple of guys and a white supremacist gang were coming to destroy your country from the inside?
I mean, how am I supposed to believe that that's what happened?
Now, of course, you have the overt reasons like election fraud that they claim or failure to represent half the country that YouTube says never happened.
But we all know that our election system is an absolute shit show, that it needs serious, tender, loving care before anyone has faith in it again.
And we all know the GOP is barely even trying to represent its base, if at all, who are rightfully furious.
And now we know that the Fed themselves played an enormous role in January 6th in the first place.
They were embedded in every group trying to get people to push the envelope.
They were making contact with right-wing influencers like Baked Alaska in the days leading up to the protest.
They were the ones who wanted to destroy Trump and his message for good at any cost.
And now many times we've heard them say that J6 was a threat to our democracy.
Well, that same language has come up in the courtrooms of multiple J6 defendants.
Do they mean the democracy that spent four years keeping Trump, who was elected by the people, from doing anything?
Do they mean the democracy that has been more concerned with was spending billions of dollars in Ukraine, sending weapons packages overseas rather than working on our local inflation?
Do they mean the democracy that is actively eroding everything that wants to find America?
The only thing to remotely threaten the status quo that ours are globalist government has been Trump.
And now he's shilling for vaccines.
It's like, what the hell happened there?
But January 6th just so happens to have made his chances of being an effective leader against much, much lower, but that wasn't intentional, right?
I'm going to introduce my guest in a moment, Hannah Claire Brimlow, who's going to talk to me more about this inside the January 6th show trial and whether the Patriots were framed.
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I'd like to welcome to the show Hannah Claire Brimlow.
In a synopsis, can you tell me a little bit about what it's like inside of the courtroom, what it's like inside of the trial and the tensions that you've experienced regarding the trials of members for January 6th?
So Enrique Tario, Zach Riel, Joe Biggs, Dominic Pozzola, and Ethan Ordean are all charged with cedar conspiracy.
There are three counts involved there.
There's also a couple other charges.
Dominic Pozzola is charged with robbery for allegedly taking a police riot shield.
We're only three days in.
I think that's the most surprising thing.
So I was in the courtroom on January 12th when both sides delivered their opening statements, and we got to hear sort of a preview of what the jury is going to hear.
And the most striking thing to me is that it's just an absolute, it feels like a mess, right?
Every time we hear one thing from one side, there's a counterpoint.
There really is this feel that the truth is not being presented obviously and that a lot of information is being kept, you know, that will just hear in drips and draps as this many, I think it's going to be a six to eight week trial plays out.
I feel like if the government had a clear indication of a plan, remember, none of these guys live together.
It's not like they have in-person meetings.
They would have presented it from the beginning, right?
So Carmen Hernandez, who's representing Zach Riel, pointed out that this is the largest investigation in U.S. history.
They've collected over 160,000 pieces of communication from Telegram, from text messages, whatever.
And there is no smoking gun.
There's no one saying, okay, boys, so here's where we're going to go and here's what we're going to do.
And you go over there and you do this and here's the goal.
There's none of that.
In fact, there are text messages presented, again, during the defense's opening statements that show that, you know, at midnight or whatever the night before, these guys are like, so where are we meeting?
So the federal prosecutor specifically called out during opening statements that Antifa is not on trial.
You know, he said they're not a part of this.
He acknowledged that at times the Proud Boys and Antifa have had conflicts in other cities and other places, but they made no specific mention of Antifa being at all an influence on this.
They specifically said Antifa's not on trial.
I think that there were a couple moments where we saw the defense teams, you know, each defendant is being represented by a different attorney and they all presented opening statements.
It basically lasted like five hours.
And each one took a different tactic towards pointing the finger at Antifa or Trump.
But more than anything, they're saying the federal government is saying that this was a coordinated effort specifically among these five defendants, whereas their defense is saying, yes, these five guys planned to go to D.C., but they did not plan to start what happened there that day.
They present it as just a bunch of one of Nick Smith, who's representing one of the defendants, said that it was a bunch of small decisions that led to something no one could have expected.
And I think that's basically it.
I think, you know, I, as a journalist, I try to stay pretty neutral on this and just absorb the facts as much as possible.
And I hope that's reflected in my writing.
But there is no smoking gun.
So how can we say that this was a planned attack?
We know that these guys share similar values.
They joined in organizations that based on values.
But is that enough to say that it's seditious conspiracy?
And you said here from your expert from your article, which you guys should click the link in the description, but Joe Biggs' legal team delayed giving an opening statement that day because his lawyer, Norman Patisse Pattis, I don't know how to pronounce it, was representing Alex Jones, had been suspended from the CT bar.
As the court was about to adjourn for the day, Pattis told the judge that he had received a stay of his suspension.
Personally, the most impactful part of watching an opening statement was sitting with the crowd.
I can talk about that.
The family of convicted people said that day.
They are a unique group of people.
And so these are pretty interesting circumstances.
In the middle of the trial, somebody's lawyer is getting suspended.
I don't, that was what everyone around me told me his name was.
He actually represented Alex Jones when he was facing some of the lawsuit in connection to the Sandy Hook.
And Pattis had some issues with presenting medical records or some confidential information.
I'm not super familiar with it, but he is now representing Biggs and he was given a six-month suspension from the Connecticut Bar.
Well, without being admitted to the Connecticut Bar, he can't represent Biggs in D.C.
And so we go through this, I mean, almost 12-hour day.
It's like 10, 9, 10 hours, whatever.
And right at the end, we spent all morning trying to figure out if he could be, he could represent Biggs.
And at the end, he stands up and says, Judge Kelly, I've been given a stay of my suspension.
So can I rejoin the table?
He was allowed to sit behind the bar.
That means like where all the legal tables are.
By this way, this man has like a huge gray ponytail.
He's a character indeed, but he will be allowed to represent his client.
I mean, there have been objections all along the way.
This really seems like quite a fight.
When the government presented their opening statement, it was 90 minutes.
There was video presentation, doctor, not doctored, but graphics added to highlight different defendants as they move through crowds, things like that.
And they were just given 90 minutes to talk.
And then we get to the five defense attorneys presenting their opening statements.
And I think the government interjected like at least three times.
At one point, this really irritated one of the defense attorneys.
They're saying, you know, we let them speak.
Why are they objecting to our inquiries and everything else right now?
So Norm Pattis being admitted or giving an exemption, not being allowed to represent a client, this back and forth is just a reflection of all the pressure that's being put on the defense team right now.
And I think one of the interesting things, though, is that you said that the lawyers representing the defendants repeatedly drew attention to facts omitted by the government.
Not every defendant entered the building.
In fact, videos show some discouraging the crowd from entering, and none of them planned what they would do when they gathered in Washington, D.C. In fact, you said text messages show that they were still trying to figure out what time and where to meet up late into the night of January 5th.
None of the men went to Washington, D.C. armed with any weapon.
So do you feel like this evidence, like the government is trying to frame them?
Would you use that term?
Or how else would you explain the fact that the government is either intentionally omitting evidence or trying to paint a picture to make these people seem more organized, more malicious, more violent, and more apt to be considered insurrectionists than the evidence actually presents?
Yeah, I mean, I think the main point is that the burden of proof is on the government, right?
These men are presumed innocent, despite what maybe the media will tell you, until convicted.
And so the government has a prerogative, right, to show 30 seconds of a video.
They don't need to show you the rest of what's going on.
So what happened a couple of different times was you'd see a video of, let's say, Dominic Pizzola, and he is smashing a window of the Capitol building with this riot shield that he's acquired.
And then you'll see his defense attorney show the same window before he gets there, his client gets there, with another man all in red throwing a two by four.
I mean, you can't mix these two people up.
You can see that this window is already being smashed.
And for some reason, the federal government has decided that the Zola is the one who made it possible for people to enter through that window.
And I just don't know if that's an accurate portrayal of what went on.
I think two years out, the public does want a narrative about what happened.
And if you're the federal government and you have to explain why D.C. police and Capitol Hill Police were understaffed that day, I think it's easier to say, no, no, no, it was someone else.
I mean, let's not forget that there were FBI informants embedded with the Proud Boys well before January 6th, who then all of a sudden are there marching and who are also, and this is, again, text message evidence that was presented during opening statements saying this is just her mentality.
The Proud Boys didn't plan anything.
I mean, of course, the government is going to set up a narrative and hopefully the defense is able to catch all of the tiny misdirections that are being presented.
So where I get really confused here, though, is that like, I don't find that if there was evidence that proved who did this, it wouldn't have taken years, right?
I mean, this is pretty understanding that even when it comes to George Floyd, this was a lot faster, right?
This was even more questionable on what exactly happened, but we were apt to prosecute within a year and determine that these were the most racist people that ever lived, even though not all of them were even white and that there was no signs of racism.
So if we could prove that, that this was a racist discrimination, wouldn't you think on something that was this well documented, the security footage is this widespread, that we would have the evidence to clearly show the public, hey, this was an insurrection.
B, these are the people who did it, or at least this is A, an insurrection, and C, these are the people we think did it.
Now let's now let's get, let's, let's, you know, after turning the public in our favor, let's just prove it in court and get the sentencing in.
I mean, do you really feel like they have a case or is this just a show trial?
I mean, there are obviously videos that indicate some things happening, and I don't know how much context or mitigating circumstances will weigh in charging those.
What gets me is if these are these high-ranking officials of the Proud Boys, they're known to the public.
How come you couldn't identify them initially, right?
So Dominic Pizzolo got added to the case this year, whereas other people have been a part of this case for several years.
Other people who have taken plea agreements are now testifying against these defendants.
You know, it doesn't seem like there is a clear indication of who planned this.
And I think in part, that's because the government hasn't really been able to identify who's in charge.
And to that end, you know, maybe there was just no plan.
Maybe this was actually a protest that got out of hand.
I mean, we saw this during the summer of 2020.
We have to remember that when Brett Kavanaugh was going through his hearings, there were women like pounding on the door of the Supreme Court.
People get close to buildings they're not supposed to in DC.
This one, I think, especially because it was a large group of men, is particularly sort of unnerving.
And I understand that.
I think that's real.
I just don't know that after all of this time, if this is the best case the government has and they've acquired all this information and they don't have a clear statement, there's not a group email saying, hey guys, here's what we're doing.
Here's our objective.
I mean, to me, that would say there never was a plan.
And I think one of the crazy parts is that the footage being shown, you said that they're trying to prove people that it seems that they tried to manipulate the footage to make the defendants look bad.
What did you mean by that?
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I don't think it's that they're manipulating the footage.
I just think that if I were to show you a video of a car crash and took 10 seconds where it looks like someone is intentionally driving their car in, but then you zoom out and you take the 45 seconds before where the car is being pushed into the other car by another car.
I mean, you, of course, will get a different perception of what's going on.
So one of the things that happened was this video of a huge mob of people and the government will take graphics and sort of point out who's where and who's doing what.
And one of the defense attorneys used the exact same video with the highlightings and was like, okay, but if you look in this corner, this man is clear, this Proud Boy or man who is not a police, it's clearly bleeding.
These men are trying to get to him to help him.
These are the police not helping him.
I mean, I just don't know that anyone can say that was anything but a complicated day.
And to that end, there were 100,000 things going on.
And there's no way the government could explain them all away.
So it's going to pick certain moments that it thinks proves this idea of seditious conspiracy.
And I bring up the question, though, of if the Proud Boys were not the ones that were in control, if they were not the ones that actually organized this or brought this together.
I know you brought up some evidence.
I want to read an excerpt from your article that you said multiple government informants who had been working with the Federal Bureau of Investigation well before January 6th were present in march with the Proud Boys that day.
His opening presentation included a screenshot of a text from one informant to his federal contact as the crowd was growing.
The unnamed man wrote that the impending riot had not been planned or organized by the Proud Boys, but was instead a result of herd mentality.
Something like this does seem to go more in the direction of herd mentality.
Why is that not a defensible position that it's just like clearly there was no plan?
And by the looks of the people involved, the sheer, you know, I would say widespread variety of people that were there that day shows that it was, you know, I don't know if you've ever been in a riot.
Maybe you have, you haven't, but people just kind of pick up the energy and they go in the direction.
Somebody that throws a brick.
There's even a meme of that with a guy poking a guy with a stick saying, hey, throw a brick, you know?
Like sometimes the energy just gets contagious and people start pushing towards anarchy.
Like why is heard mentality not something that could be a plausible explanation for this and the government chooses to have to have a seditious representative?
I mean, I can't speak to the government's motivations.
I think more than anything, it was just, it felt shocking to a lot of people, right?
To see people go into the Capitol, to see people around, to see people arguing with police on the steps of this building that we put so much symbolic importance into.
I think there is that desire to have someone who is responsible for disrupting this idea of, oh, everything's harmony and peaceful in D.C. all the time.
And I think herd mentality plays a lot into any large gathering, right?
If you saw the stuff, the stampede at Travis Scott's concert at the end of last year, if you've heard about any kind of crush scenario, getting a large group of people who are high energy and amped up is dangerous, right?
But all I know for sure is that the Proud Boys wanted people to come to DC and be in DC when the Stop the Steel rally was going on.
I did not see it on opening statements during government's presentation or by any omission on the defense's side that there were plans to specifically harass members of Congress or to do anything else.
I think that the government can't just let this go.
And I understand why.
Obviously, it's a serious situation.
there was obvious violence, things like that.
But I don't know that it is what a lot of people believe it is.
I don't know that the term insurrection applies here.
I don't know that this is anything more than a riot because it hasn't been proven to me by the government or by the defense, right?
Everything just seems like these guys who have a men's organization came to DC.
And after that, there's no definitive proof that this was something that was planned.
I mentioned this in the article at one point, but the government repeated this phrase over and over again by any force necessary, by any means necessary, sorry, by any means necessary, these men planned to disrupt the certification of the electoral vote.
And yet no one came with guns.
No one came with knives.
No one came with weapons.
No one came with plan.
No one knew where to meet in the morning.
I am trying to be as open-minded as possible.
I think it's important to go into that whenever you're writing about something.
But again, we never got a screenshot of a text saying, here is what we're doing from any Proud Boys.
And in fact, the defense attorneys by my last count mentioned at least three different FBI informants who marched on January 6, meaning the FBI was aware that this group of men that's potentially so dangerous was coming to DC.
And at least three FBI informants are going to testify.
So at some point, unless someone is going to tell us why the FBI did not inform local law enforcement to be have more staffing there, or they're going to admit that they didn't think this was that big a deal, like something just seems off to me.
I haven't seen a specific number of federal informants.
And I'd be really curious to see if, especially at the end of this trial, if we have a clear number.
There are a group of people who were federal informants who were in the Proud Boys who were involved before January 6th.
I don't know how long some of these people who are going to be called to testify have been with the Proud Boys and reporting to the FBI.
But then there are another group of men who were deeply involved in the organization who have taken plea deals and will be cooperating state witnesses.
So there's a guy named Johnny Blackbeard.
And I mentioned this in the article.
I didn't name him specifically.
But at one point during the federal government's opening statements, they play an audio, like a voice memo that someone might record on their phone of Johnny Blackbeard saying, you know, yo, we got to storm the Capitol or whatever men say to each other.
And hours later, Enrique Tario responds to it with the voice memo, and he sounds really groggy.
It sounds like apparently it was recorded at like seven in the morning.
He's like, hey, I'm just hearing this.
You want to storm the Capitol?
Like, he does not sound like, yeah, man, this sounds like a good idea.
He sounds very unsure.
And this was the big crescendo of the government's opening statements, this audio from a guy, Johnny Blackbeard, who's a cooperating state witness.
So I don't really know what the game plan is here to say, like, well, we gave a deal to the only guy who specifically said beforehand, maybe we should do this and didn't appear to convince any of his comrades, or if Johnny Blackbeard actually was a federal informant the whole time, because there was a, again, it's so hard to write this article because there are so many details.
I mentioned that it's like walking into like the eighth act of a play that's very complicated.
But Johnny Blackbeard in some of the legal documents before this, they wouldn't even name him.
They wouldn't disclose his name at all.
At one point in the pre-trial motions, someone tries to say his name and Judge Kelly like immediately was like, everyone get on.
They have these phones that they talk into, so you can't hear what's going on.
I don't know what differentiates a federal informant before January 6th and after January 6th at this point, if you know what I'm saying.
Like there are a lot of people now cooperating with the government.
And I love how you have this quote in the article.
It's like, I mean he is presumed innocent, but said the prosecutor seeming to struggle to articulate a specific complaint.
It's like.
Yeah, the justice system and all that, whatever, that nonsense, like we need to have a reason to put the blame on them.
And that's sort of what I see to be an overarching understanding of what's going on in the country.
Like Mike Cernovich pointed out in California, right?
They have a record drought, then they have record rainfall, then they don't capture any of the water because they don't have poor planning and poor infrastructure.
And then they blame climate change at the end of all of it and then go back into a drought.
There's zero accountability, zero explaining why the problems are happening and why they can't solve their own issues.
And that seems to be the government's issue.
It's like everyone else is to blame for their lack of organization.
And sometimes even with the failed mock kidnapping of Governor Whitmer in Michigan, the government seems to be behind all of this.
It seems like the prosecution isn't even trying to uphold the Constitution, just trying to find a scapegoat.
Is that the impression that you got from the trial?
I think that the government is trying to meet the legal burden put on it to provide proof to convict the defendants.
I think that you will hear the terms First Amendment and Sixth Amendment over and over again.
I know I did when I was sitting there.
So the specific quote that you referenced, there were these slides that all the defense attorneys had to, you know, aid their case.
Sometimes they would show pictures of their clients, their families, you know, to make them feel like real people and not just like these random guys across the room.
And Carmen Hernandez, who's representing Zachary Real, had this slide that said, Zachary Real is innocent.
And before we even got the jury in the room, the prosecutor objected.
And he was like, I mean, this isn't allowed.
We talked about this before.
And, you know, Carmen Hernandez makes the excellent point of like, I didn't interrupt theirs.
They saw my slides beforehand.
Like, what is the problem with me saying my client is innocent?
I think that there is this question of what is free speech in the courtroom, right?
There are certain things that Judge Kelly has not allowed in.
And it, again, becomes this question of free speech.
We hear it over and over again.
I wouldn't be surprised.
So Carmen Hernandez, I didn't mention this in the piece.
Carmen Hernandez, after the government presented its opening statement, immediately moved for a mistrial.
And she said that there were a bunch of statements that were misleading and not accurate in the government's opening statement.
Not totally surprising.
I would probably suspect anyone would make that claim, right?
You don't agree with what they're saying.
And the judge immediately denied it.
And she immediately went to, you're violating my client's right to a fair trial.
So I don't think, even if we get convictions now, I don't think this is the end of anything.
Well, then it makes me wonder if the events in January 6, 2021, were these a planned pre-coordinated effort to prevent legislative proceedings by any means necessary?
Like, or are these just the results you're seeing of a legal protest that escalated beyond people's expectations into something that we had seen?
Like, I hate to bring up the amnesia effect, but it seems like people forget this was like a long year of common protests and riots.
I mean, this was planned.
It was organized.
Like, no one's talking about the fact that all the BLM riots and protests seem to have been coordinated and planned.
This is the only one that they want us to remember.
940 people have been arrested in connection to this.
Sorry to interrupt you, but I think you're totally right.
We have this huge list of people who have been arrested in connection to this.
I mean, that was the thing that I found most impactful sitting in the gallery.
It wasn't just that I sat behind the wives and girlfriends of these men on trial.
Even Nordine and his wife kept looking at each other.
It was like they are trying to connect.
I mean, he's locked up, right?
They don't get to see each other very much.
But I was also sitting next to people who are the wives and husbands and family members of other people who have been convicted in connection to January 6th.
All of them know what the other people in this room are experiencing.
And at the end of the day, all of them feel like they are not being given a fair trial because they're being scapegoated.
And I wonder, though, based on what you've seen so far, you know, in this entire investigation, as we go through and look at all the evidence, as we see the cases going down and we see people being put in jail like Nick Oaks for four years, et cetera.
Just do these people have any hope of escaping this and finding freedom?
Or does it really matter about what the truth is and the government's involvement?
Like, are they just going to go down because they're proud boys, because they're enemies of the regime?
Because they're, you know, they have, if you say you're a proud boy, you don't get public sympathy because of what the media has painted them as.
I mean, is this sort of just watching a lame dog die, you know, before our very eyes?
Or do you feel like Americans still have a fight when it comes to the justice system and a high-profile case like this?
I personally feel like we have a fight and you should continue to fight always.
Again, I recognize that I am not having to pay these legal bills and sit through this and be separated from my loved ones the way that some other people are.
I mean, for me, what my mind immediately goes to, and again, Enrique Tario's lawyer said at one point: if the government convicts, takes down Enrique Tario, they take down the Proud Boys.
Now, what does that mean?
Canada and New Zealand have both declared the Proud Boy is an actual terrorist organization, right?
So does that mean that if we can say, yes, that was the Proud Boys' fault, we can put more serious legal and federal pressure on them as an organization?
Are they prepping to take steps that I would personally deem unconstitutional?
It's hard to say.
I think that this fight is worth having.
What's hard is that it's so lengthy.
We're in year two, and this isn't even the only trial, right?
Like I sat in a room with people who have been to five, six, seven, eight of these already, and they continue to show up to be there to show up for other people experiencing this.
But it's not like, you know, with Kyle Rittenhouse, I think we all sat with bated breath because it felt like either one side is right or the other side is wrong.
And in this, there are so many complicated factors that there's not a clear victory.
That's why, in some ways, I feel like the federal government is sort of at the position of advantage.
They just have to get guilty verdicts, but they don't need to explain, oh, well, he was guilty of this charge, not the other one.
Like the media will run with it as a win.
It will look like we got those terrible guys who did this thing they weren't supposed to do.
And you'll never hear the details.
What really bothers me is, you know, I'm able to go into DC and I encourage anyone to do so.
It's open to the public.
But this trial should be live streamed.
There's no reason, in my mind, personally, that we shouldn't be able to all keep up with what's going on, especially because it's so complicated.
Every time there's a cross-examination, all five defense attorneys go through it.
This is going to take forever, and there are going to be so many details.
And I hope there are because I hope these guys have a solid day in court.
But I think that by the nature of the rules preventing recording in federal courtrooms, you know, we are doing a disservice to the public.
But I can't expect the public to be aware of what's going on with 940 cases.
So, sort of summarizing all of this, It is difficult for me to see, you know, with the Hatchet Man, Norm Eisen's fingerprints being all over the dark new element of the January 6th witch hunt and what's been happening.
People that are wanting to keep up with this, you know, people say, why do you continue to talk about this?
Well, I'm not going to stop talking about this as long as it continues to be a problem.
It continues to be a development.
And in the way that the people are targeted, I mean, I have had actual friends, like even a physician friend of mine, who did go to jail for months for literally speaking inside of the rotunda.
And it's very frustrating.
You know, it's frustrating to me, the left wing demonizing people.
It's frustrating to me the right wing saying it was all Antifa.
It does no good.
You know, always being like, why didn't this person get arrested?
This person's a fed.
Look, no one's being helpful.
You know what is helpful?
Journalists going in and exposing the truth, lawyers volunteering their time, people coming in and defending, people sending donations, praying for the families, supporting members of what's going on, going out there and exposing the stories, amplifying them, putting pressure on the federal government, putting pressure on the media, putting pressure on the truth to be pushed out into the public and not trying to cause more problems than you're helping.
You should question everything.
I don't care if you question everyone.
Maybe everyone's a fed.
Maybe nobody's a fed.
Who knows?
But the reality is that there are brothers and sisters who are being persecuted for this.
And even if they deserve, you know, a ticket or a fine or something for violating a law, maybe an infraction, maybe even a misdemeanor, we're not talking about a fight of a, you know, between a misdemeanor and an infraction.
We're not talking a fight between a fine and a day in county jail.
We're talking about prison for four years, labor camps, work camps.
I mean, these are extreme things going on.
People with newborn children, all because of nonviolent actions.
And that makes you wonder if it's not because of violence.
It's probably because of something else.
And so, Hannah Claire, any last words that you want to explain about this case?
And also let people know how we can continue to follow your work, how we can continue to find you on social media and the places that we can continue to discover your amazing ideas.
I mean, the big thing for me is if you can go to the trial, go see for yourself.
If you can find someone who's tweeting and keeping up with what's going on, it is a lot of information, but don't let this be memory hold.
I think knowing that this is going on, you don't want to read one headline and then pick it up again at the end of the story.
You need to know the details and what the government is saying these men did, because how are we going to hold the government accountable if we are not keeping ourselves informed?
As you mentioned, I'm a writer for TimCast.com, so you can check out my work there.
Make sure that you find and follow her everywhere where you can, link in the description.
Don't forget this is an audio-only podcast, which is and means if you leave a five-star review and you make it this far and you haven't already, please go ahead and do so as we are demonetized very much across the board.
We originally got demonetized for recording and documenting January 6th, so it really helps us out.
And you might get your five-star review read on the show.
This review is from Jeffrey Epstein, which I hopefully a different one.
He says, I love me some slightly five-star review.
Yes, I'm very offended with the show.
I've been listening to you for like two years now.
You are amazing.
It's why I pay so much attention to you on all my social feeds.
I'm so sick of being lied to about January 6th.
They put them in jail, but all people who set fire and burned down the cities during BLM riots got nothing, but there are people in jail for protesting at the White House, aka your house.
I think they meant to basically say the Capitol.
That drives me crazy.
I'm also sick that we still don't know on the Epstein list who was there.
