An INSIDE Look at the J6 TRIALS with Hannah Claire Brimelow | Slightly Clips
What is really going on??
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What strikes me about the courtroom for the Proud Boys is that it's the mirror image of where the oath keepers were tried.
So we have the defendants on one side, the jury on the other, and this sea of lawyers in between with obviously opposing points of view.
It really is almost like a TV show, except it's happening in real life.
Yeah, so I want to bring this up because I'm not going to ask if you were there, but obviously I was there.
I'm very familiar with the trials.
I've been around this.
But I want to get into a specific case that you're tracking, which is about five Proud Boys that were accused of planning January 6th.
Now, two years after the now infamous day, the government has to prove its claim that the Capitol breach was premeditated.
How do you feel that case is going in regards to this specific example?
Right.
So Enrique Tario, Zach Real, Joe Biggs, Dominic Pozzola, and Ethan Ordin are all charged with the conspiracy.
There are three counts involved there.
There's also a couple other charges.
Dominic Pozzola is charged with robbery for allegedly taking a police riot shield.
We're only three days in.
I think that's the most surprising thing.
So I was in the courtroom on January 12th when both sides delivered their opening statements, and we got to hear sort of a preview of what the jury is going to hear.
And the most striking thing to me is that it's just an absolute, it feels like a mess, right?
Every time we hear one thing from one side, there's a counterpoint.
There really is this feel that the truth is not being presented obviously and that a lot of information is being kept, you know, that will just hear in drips and drops as this menu, I think it's going to be a six to eight week trial plays out.
Okay, so I know, I know these people.
I've met them multiple times while I've been out in the field.
I've rubbed shoulders with them.
I'm not going to say whether I confirm or deny that I saw them, you know, inside of the building.
I'm just going to go ahead and, you know, we're not in court, but I'll plead on the fifth on that or just journalistic immunity.
But I will say I did see them outside of the building, and this is what they're being prosecuted for.
So we have to prove a case that Proud Boys plan this.
Not to be rude to the Proud Boys, but I don't know if you've ever been to one of their own events.
They're not even that good at planning their own.
Yeah, my favorite line was Carmen, right?
Carmen Hernandez, Zach Real's attorney, said, these guys couldn't even place a group order at McDonald's.
You think they planned an insurrection?
It was great.
I mean, it does sort of summarize the energy there.
I will say in Portland, that's what I'm saying.
They brought like a band together.
They just drink beer.
I've never seen any direct coordination.
Like, I mean, the worst thing that's happened is a brawl.
Do we see any evidence being presented thus far as we get into this that is proving that these people plan this in a traditional sense?
Or do you feel like the evidence that's being presented is just skewing towards a pre-confirmed bias?
I feel like if the government had a clear indication of a plan, remember, none of these guys live together.
It's not like they have in-person meetings.
They would have presented it from the beginning, right?
So Carmen Hernandez, who's representing Zach Real, pointed out that this is the largest investigation in U.S. history.
They've collected over 160,000 pieces of communication from Telegram, from text messages, whatever.
And there is no smoking gun.
There's no one saying, okay, boys, so here's where we're going to go and here's what we're going to do.
And you go over there and you do this and here's the goal.
There's none of that.
In fact, there are text messages presented, again, during the defense's opening statements that show that, you know, at midnight or whatever the night before, these guys are like, so where are we meeting?
What time?
And like, it's not to downplay, you know, their intention for being there.
They had a permit to protest.
There were obviously some steps taken to organize.
But on the other hand, I would think that seditious conspiracy takes a little bit more than that.
Now, there are judges who will say that anyone who shares the same ideology who shows up at the same place could be convicted of seditious conspiracy.
I just don't know that that is enough to convince the jury in this case.
We don't really know.
Right.
So let's talk about this other aspect that this was floating around a lot around the time that January 6th happened, but what was Antifa's role in the case being built against the Proud Boys and other people that were there on January 6th?
So the federal prosecutor specifically called out during opening statements that Antifa is not on trial.
You know, he said they're not a part of this.
He acknowledged that at times the Proud Boys and Antifa have had conflicts in other cities and other places, but they made no specific mention of Antifa being at all an influence on this.
They specifically said Antifa's not on trial.
I think that there were a couple moments where we saw the defense teams, you know, each defendant is being represented by a different attorney and they all presented opening statements.
It basically lasted like five hours.
And each one took a different tactic towards pointing the finger at Antifa or Trump.
But more than anything, they're saying the federal government is saying that this was a coordinated effort specifically among these five defendants, whereas their defense is saying, yes, these five guys planned to go to DC, but they did not plan to start what happened there that day.
They present it as just a bunch of, one of Nick Smith, who's representing one of the defendants, said that it was a bunch of small decisions that led to something no one could have expected.
And I think that's basically it.
I think, you know, I, as a journalist, I try to stay pretty neutral on this and just absorb the facts as much as possible.
And I hope that's reflected in my writing.
But there is no smoking gun.
So how can we say that this was a planned attack?
We know that these guys share similar values.
They joined in organizations that are based on values.
But is that enough to say that it's seditious conspiracy?
I just don't think so.
Right.
And you said here from the expert from your article, which you guys should click the link in the description, but Joe Biggs' legal team delayed giving an opening statement that day because his lawyer, Norman Patisse Pattis, I don't know how to pronounce it, was representing Alex Jones, had been suspended from the CT bar.
As the court was about to adjourn for the day, Pattis told the judge that he had received a stay of his suspension.
Personally, the most impactful part of watching opening statement was sitting with the crowd.
I can talk about that.
The family of convicted people said that day, they are a unique group of people.
And so these are pretty interesting circumstances.
In the middle of the trial, somebody's lawyer is getting suspended.
What happened there?
Yeah.
So Norm Pattis, I've always said Pattis.
I don't, that was what everyone around me told me his name was.
He actually represented Alex Jones when he was facing some of the lawsuit in connection to the Sandy Hook.
And Pattis had some issues with presenting medical records or some confidential information.
I'm not super familiar with it, but he is now representing Biggs and he was given a six-month suspension from the Connecticut Bar.
Well, without being admitted to the Connecticut Bar, he can't represent Biggs in D.C.
And so we go through this, I mean, almost 12-hour day.
It's like 10, 9, 10 hours, whatever.
And right at the end, we spent all morning trying to figure out if he could be on, he could represent Biggs.
And at the end, he stands up and says, Judge Kelly, I've been given a stay of my suspension.
So can I rejoin the table?
He was allowed to sit behind the bar.
That means like where all the legal tables are.
By this way, this man has like a huge gray ponytail.
A character indeed uh, but he will be allowed to represent his client.
I mean, there have been objections all along the way.
This really seems like quite a fight.
When the government presented their opening statement, it was 90 minutes.
Uh, there was video presentation doctor not doctored, but you know uh, graphics added to highlight different defendants as they move through crowds, things like that.
And um, they were just given 90 minutes to talk, and then we get to the five uh defense attorneys presenting their opening statements, and I think the government interjected, like at least three times.
At one point, this really irritated one of the defense attorneys.
They're saying, you know, we let them speak.
Why are they objecting to our inquiries and everything else right now uh, so Norm Pattis being admitted or giving an exemption, not being allowed to represent a client?
This back and forth is just a reflection of all the pressure that's being put on the defense team right now.
Right, and I think one of the interesting things though uh, is that you said that the lawyers representing the defendants repeatedly drew attention to facts omitted by the government.
Not every defendant entered the building.
In fact, videos show some discouraging the crowd from entering, and none of them planned what they would do when they gathered in Washington Dc.
In fact, you said, text messages show that they were still trying to figure out what time and where to meet up late into the night of january 5th, none of the men went to Washington Dc armed with any weapon.
So do you feel like this?
This evidence uh, like the government is trying to frame them.
Would you use that term?
Or like, how else would you explain the fact that the government is either intentionally omitting evidence or trying to paint a picture to make these people seem more organized, more malicious, more violent and uh, more apt to be considered insurrectionist than the evidence actually presents?
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