The Untold Story of the Most Banned Person in America | Ep 210
You probably think the most banned person on the internet is Alex Jones, but that’s not true. There's someone who has been targeted not only by the tech companies but also by the federal justice system for no other reason than thought crimes. Everybody seems to have an opinion about this person, but nobody seems to have asked him the question: Who are you, and are the things people say about you true? Here’s the untold life story of the most banned person on the internet.
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You guys are always writing me emails and sending me comments, direct messages saying, get this person on.
Get that person on.
And I remember that there was the most requested person originally was Alex Jones.
Everyone's like, you got to get this guy on.
You've got to talk about him.
And I know that everybody has Alex Jones on.
People like to make fun of him.
They like to talk behind his back.
And I was like, you know what?
I know Alex Jones is not what people think he is.
And so it's important that I tell the backstory, the true life story of Alex Jones, what was going on.
And the reception was good.
I was surprised.
I was surprised.
I don't know you, Savannah, but I was shocked a little bit because people that not only were our friends, but our enemies, Alex's friends and enemies, all really appreciated just giving a good hour, hour and a half in-depth look at a human being and the truth about his life.
And I thought it was received so well.
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It was.
It was one of our most popular episodes to date.
People absolutely loved it and we got rave reviews.
And it's such an interesting thing, too, because obviously you and I, I've interviewed you before twice, actually.
And that footage that we just saw, that interaction with Ben, I happened to have filmed.
And I guess this means that we have a history of being around the same circles, but this is the first time we're able to sit down in studio on camera and find out who the hell is this man, Nicholas J. Fuentes, that I hear so many things about, both good and bad.
Yeah, we have a lot to cover about his entire life, the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth, the slander, and all that much more coming up.
And on that note, welcome back to Slightly Offensive, The Best Worst Show on Blaze TV with your host, me, Elijah Schaefer, Top 17.
I'm joined by Savannah Hernandez, as you just saw earlier, our resident producer and the host of the Rapid Fire podcast, which you should check out.
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Because the first time that we came across each other, I was told nothing about you except genuinely horrible things.
And, you know, I thought that I was going to end up on camera with somebody like Caitlin Jenner or something, just a disgusting person.
And as we were talking, I was actually quite shocked that perhaps some of the things that people say about you may not be true.
Some of them may be true.
But most importantly, very few outlets, as I researched you, could give me an honest answer about who this person was without including bias, which is why I brought you here.
And I want to get to know you.
I genuinely want to get to know you.
As the audience, you got to know that a lot of people have an opinion probably about you.
I'm sure you know that.
Yeah.
A lot of people have an opinion about you.
And a lot of people think a lot of things.
But the most important thing is I want to get into this.
So let's talk about your story.
Let's talk about who is Nicholas J. Fuentes.
How did we get into this?
Let's talk about your timeline.
So, you know, before all this happened, before the reputation, before everything, how did you get into knowing that you wanted to be a voice in the political scene?
Well, honestly, it was really just more of an opportunistic thing because it really, that really was not a forum for politics, but I made it one, you know, because really the whole deal on a music radio station, because that's what it was, it was an FM radio station where they, it was specifically an indie rock station.
It's supposed to be music played and then you talk about music.
But as the years went on, I kind of made it my own, you know, because I always loved music and I still do.
But, you know, my main thing was always politics ever since middle school.
And so over the years, I just inserted more of my personality into it.
And, you know, by the end, I realized I could get away basically with anything.
And so it turned into just straight up explicit politics.
And this is kind of common, I find, with people who fit outside the box, is that it's like one of the first indicators is when you're in school, you realize, like, I could do this.
There's a lot of paths I could go down, but because the value isn't there, this is an interesting thing.
I got to find something I see value in.
And this is why, before you even go any further, like straight up into the camera.
People think this is an act, right?
Before we even go into this, this is all an act that you're putting on a face.
Like, is the nick that we see is the nick that people have seen in clips?
And not talking about out of context, but if people have taken any moment to look into that, your personality, is this a real person?
And, you know, people that know me or knew me, I should say, before I started doing the show will tell you this.
I mean, before I was Nick Fuentes on America First, I was Nick Fuentes in high school.
And I was Nick Fuentes when I was in Model UN and when I was doing my high school show and my high school radio show.
You know, I've always been outspoken.
I've always been opinionated.
I've always, you know, put my personality into these things.
And, you know, for my show, I do ham it up a little bit.
It's entertainment.
You know, that's what we're really in the business of is it's informative, it's educational, but it's also really intended to entertain.
And, you know, so is it theatrical?
You know, I'm not going to deny that it's that it's not theatrical or that it is theatrical, but it's 100% me.
And I don't think it couldn't because, you know, I do a show, it's live streamed two hours a night every weeknight, and I've been doing it for five years.
I'm actually wearing you've had to be on, we'll get into that, but obviously you're not on any other platforms for some clear reasons, which we'll get to.
But so you're on cozy.tv.
This is a live two hours Monday through Friday from someone who does the same thing.
It's a hell it's a lot of emotion, a lot of energy.
And if you're not being serious, I get what you're saying.
There's nowhere to hide, you know, because, and especially my format, and I know you do something similar.
It's a monologue and then it's super chats, and people can ask you anything, personal, political.
And so, you know, and for five years to do it that long, you know, to keep up an act like that, you'd have to be a totally twisted maniac to do that, which, you know, some people might say I am, I guess.
But no, I think basically the appeal of my show, and I think what people like about me, contrary to what, you know, my critics say, is the authenticity.
You know, at the end of the day, people know it's real.
Yeah, it is interesting because, you know, a lot of people talk about being closeted sexually, right?
These, these, these inner urges.
People have the same kind of thing with politics, where I'm sure there's a lot of people who are like closeted Nick Fuentes fans because of the baggage that comes with your name, which again, we're going to talk about.
And that's why I want to talk about this.
It's like, it's interesting to see how people have found you over the years and to understand there's probably people watching this show that have never heard of you, people that will go check you out, and people that will hate you.
Some people will find out they love you.
You might make some new fans and some new enemies.
But obviously, you didn't get here on your own.
I know that after, you know, with high school, as you got into politics, you worked on the Trump campaign in New Hampshire.
I mean, I remember I didn't support Trump initially in the primary.
I think I supported Rand Paul around November 2015.
I supported Ted Cruz early on.
I voted for Ted Cruz in the primary in Illinois, which was, I think, March 2016, Super Tuesday.
And by April, though, I supported Trump 100%.
And, you know, over time, I just became more and more pro-Trump.
And, you know, some people have accused me of doing that opportunistically, but I had a real epiphany because I said, here's a guy who initially I didn't even agree with them 100%, but I said, here's a guy who's going to fight.
Here's a guy who's going to stand up.
Because I realize a reality of power politics, that even if you get somebody who you agree with more, are they going to fight the media?
Which is, we have effectively a media-run state.
Can you have an effective Republican legislator, executive if they can't fight the media?
The answer is no.
And so I saw a guy here who, and that's just one example, is fighting the institutional power that exists on both sides, on the right and the left.
And so I fell in love with Trump and I was up in Boston for school.
I was at Boston University.
And yeah, so I got involved with the campaign.
I got a group of about 20 students from around the area.
I just emailed all the college Republicans.
And if you remember at the time, it was actually somewhat contentious because I think it was Harvard College Republicans.
They put out a letter and said, we don't support Trump.
And I think they encouraged people to vote for a Republican down ballot, but not on the presidential ticket because they were anti-Trump.
And so I went to all these CRs, the college Republicans from Northeastern, Harvard, BU, BC, and said, hey, we got to go up to New Hampshire.
We got to campaign.
And so I brought a group of 20 people up there.
We knocked on doors.
And it was actually kind of funny.
The day that we arrived in New Hampshire, we went up there for a couple of weekends.
One of the weekends we went up there, we pull into the hotel.
We're in this big white van with 20 kids, whatever, and we're walking into the hotel lobby.
That was the night that the Billy Bush tape came out.
So you can imagine, like, we're all supposed to go out the following day to knock on doors and say, hey, vote for Trump.
And this was the day after the Billy Bush thing came out.
They'll let you grab them was actually the key thing.
But obviously it was twisted.
Yeah, they'll let you do it, which is actually a true statement.
What's interesting, though, is in none of this, you know, obviously during this time, there was a push to say that Trump was a racist, that Trump was, and I'm not talking even like someone who understands race differences.
They were saying like Trump is, you know, this anti-Semitic, black-hating, white nationalist individual.
And as we're tracking your story, it's like, it's interesting because a lot of people would say that's why young white men supported him.
But nowhere in this did you bring up that those were qualities that you saw in him or anything, but that this is somebody who was a good leader.
This is an interesting thing because I think that anybody who paired with Trump early on, they tried to immediately also paint as Nazis or these types of things, right?
Because if you were in proxy, even if you were a Jew, you were considered a Nazi.
I mean, I attended Ben Shapiro protests against him, where there were people outside calling him a Nazi and a fascist and a white supremacist.
So this was a time where I'm just asking you, were you aware of this new push that was going on around Trump and people in proxy to supporting him to slander and to make them to be white nationalistic?
Were you aware of this media push during that time?
You know, I was on campus and I put out some controversial tweets and that was very popular at the time.
You had people like Milo and Shapiro and everybody was like an edge lord and everybody was, that was the style was sort of shock jock thing.
And I remember putting out some tweets, you know, multiculturalism's cancer, you know, that kind of stuff, boilerplate 2016 type stuff.
And everybody on my campus came down on me and said, you know, you can't wear your MAGA hat on campus and you can't say that.
And there was a concerted push and it really did begin actually in 2015, you know, when he made his announcement speech and he said, they're bringing drugs, crime, they're rapists, you know, some I assume are good people.
And, you know, honestly, the reason why they were, because they always said bad things about Republicans before, Romney, McCain, everybody.
But, and, of course, George W. Bush, now he's their hero, but years ago, he was like, they compared him to Hitler, the devil, you know, very similar.
You know, I'm not, I'm not a Bush supporter by any stretch, but they definitely kicked it up a notch with Trump.
And the reason being is because Trump was talking about identity issues and cultural issues and, you know, the things that the left call dog whistles.
There was a sort of implicit message there, make America great again.
And, you know, of course, talking about globalism, building a wall, you know, banning Muslims from the country.
It was speaking to this conception of America, not as, you know, merely the economy, which is what Republicans, that's usually the angle Republicans go with is they're pro-growth, pro-business, pro-jobs, you know, this kind of stuff.
And Trump said, no, we want greatness for our nation.
We want a great nation and we want a safe nation.
And, you know, there was something specifically about a border wall that said, you know, in a higher sense, bigger than border security.
It said, this is Mexico and this is America.
And that means something.
That's significant.
There's a sort of dividing line between the rest of the world and America.
We're unique, exceptional.
We have our own identity.
And the left picked up on that.
The right sort of pretended that wasn't happening.
They said, well, what are you talking about?
He's just a regular Republican.
It's like, no, and not for bad reasons, for good reasons.
No, he was an exceptional Republican.
I should say conservative, you know, nationalist, whatever.
He was an exceptional figure.
And, you know, but that's why they really came down hard.
But that was also the reason why there was this huge turnout in 2016.
He activated parts of the base that Republicans couldn't turn out before in Michigan, Wisconsin.
You're in 2017, your freshman year of college, you start working with RSBN.
Now, people don't realize the right side broadcasting network is a legitimate network, very common.
You can see here on the B-roll.
This is a very, very young and clearly optimistic in some ways, Nick Fuentes, where you can see, as with both of us, life has not always been nice to young white men.
But in this case, you know, you have this rising star, this talented young guy.
RSBN is a great first job or even internship to get.
So, you know, we were fast friends and she was really enthralled with me because she thought I was so talented.
And she was really the one responsible for getting me my show.
So if anybody's saying, for better or for worse, you know, how did Nick Fuentes get here?
You can thank Cassie Dillon because she got me the show on RSBN.
And so, you know, I was doing America First.
It was great.
You know, I was getting along with everybody just fine.
And, you know, I was friends with Cassie Dillon and we would talk about politics.
And, you know, at the time, the show was called America First.
And so I would read Daily Wire, I would read or watch Prager University videos and these kinds of things.
And I started to notice this pattern where, you know, for example, on PragerU or Daily Wire, you get an article that was, you know, here's the case for low taxes.
Here's the case for Second Amendment.
Here's the case for this.
And then there'd be an article that's like, here's why the Palestinians should be ground into the dirt.
And it was this weird thing where there's like this fixation on this Middle Eastern conflict between Israel and Palestine.
And it was every few articles, you know, you'd have your conservative mainstays.
Here's a case for life.
Here's a case for, you know, the Bible in school.
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And here's why, you know, the Jewish state has eternal right.
And, you know, whatever you think about that, I started to scratch my head and wonder, you know, my show's called America First.
Support Israel against Israel really makes no difference to me, but shouldn't it be America First always, every time, et cetera?
And so I started to ask her, because she was at Dailywire and they're prominent, you know, supporters of Israel.
I would say, hey, you know, how exactly is it America first to support, for example, foreign aid?
You know, $3.8 billion per year for Israel and all of this, you know, how can you really say you're America first if you're so fixated on the benefit of another country?
Can I ask you a question there, though, before you even give her answer?
It's like, so when you say this, because this where a lot of people, I think, get turned off, even these kind of questions, because obviously I know where this is headed, is like, was your question just on foreign aid in general?
Or did you see something like, I could question A, foreign aid, but not to this country?
Or was it just like, you just noticed this one country gets a lot of attention in foreign aid, and so you wanted to start there?
Like, what is it about Israel's foreign aid?
Like, was it just, you know what I'm saying?
Like, was it just that you had a problem with?
Or was it like the fact that you couldn't have a problem with it?
It became the fact that I couldn't have a problem with it.
But initially, it really was just a good faith sort of inquiry because honestly, you know, what it really started with was in December 2016, Obama was leaving the administration.
I don't know if you remember this, but he refused to veto a Security Council resolution condemning the settlements in the West Bank, I think.
And conservatives flipped out and they said, how could he do this?
And I said, I hate Obama, by the way.
I mean, nobody hates Obama more than I do.
But I said, you know, why are people giving him a hard time?
Is it America's obligation to veto resolutions for the benefit of Israel?
It's America's official position to oppose the settlements.
Anyways, so I started to kind of notice this double standard in conservative media where it's like, well, you know, of course, nobody could be caught dead supporting China or Mexico or any country to the detriment of America.
But for some reason, when it comes to this country, you know, again, it's not like China that Prager used making videos about, or it's not Mexico that Daily White or every third article is about their right to exist and their enemy should be destroyed.
It was this country.
And so a lot of people say to me, you know, well, why do you focus on that country?
The focus isn't coming from me.
It's coming from them.
You know, when you go to a turning point rally, they have a sign that says, greetings from Israel, iHeart Israel.
Is the focus from me or from them?
And so I feel like it's, I'm put in a weird position where I feel like the odd man out for saying, should it be America first?
No exceptions, not even for this one or that one.
And then people say, well, why are you focused on the exception?
I mean, so I was 18, you know, for context, because some people look at me like this nefarious actor.
As precocious as I am, I was 18 years old.
I was a freshman in college.
I just started reading, you know, like Edmund Burke as an example.
I was very inexperienced.
And so I had this line of inquiry in good faith.
What we're told is college campus conservatives is it's a free market of ideas.
Ask away.
You know, it's about, you know, we're trying to figure out big ideas.
And so anyway, so I would ask her about these things and I was friends with all of them, Aaron Bandler, Elliot Hamilton, all the staff writers at Daily Wire I knew and was friends with.
At one point, they were even talking about maybe bringing me on as a writer, contributor.
And anyway, one night I was talking to Cassie Dillon and, you know, I forget what it was I said that set her off, but it was along these lines.
And she sent me this big block text.
Now, mind you, I knew her for months.
We were very good friends.
We knew each other very well.
She got me the show.
Like we had a pretty solid relationship.
And she sends me this big block text basically saying, I will never talk to you again.
You know, what you're saying is anti-Semitic.
It's so wrong.
It's so out of line with, you know, what's appropriate for conservatism.
And you're going down a different path.
You're alt-right.
I can't talk to you.
And she goes to me and she never talked to me again.
And I was honestly shocked because, you know, I knew that this inquiry was making them sort of hostile.
I knew they didn't like it.
I knew because I talked to all of them about it, Elliot Hamilton, Bandler, Cassie Dillon.
And they all were sort of standoffish about it, weirdly sort of like, you know, because with a lot of stuff, you could just have a friendly debate and banter, but this thing, it was like, you can't touch that.
And so I had gotten pushback, but I was a little surprised at the kind of such a dramatic and stark term, like, no, I won't talk to you anymore.
And then it gets better.
Then, you know, I proceeded doing my show on America first.
I have and had a great relationship with Joe and Jacob Seals, who run RSBN.
And she starts calling them every night for like weeks on end.
She would watch my show, pick up the phone and say, hey, Joe, Nick said this on his show tonight.
You think he should still be on RSBN?
Every night.
And I remember Joe, Joe Seals, who runs the company, confided in me, you know, a couple weeks after this and said, hey, you know, Cassie really doesn't like you.
She's calling every night.
It got to the point where the first big media hit piece about me was, I think, April 2017.
It was from Media Matters, where I said something like, you know, globalists are traitors.
And what do we do with traitors?
They're committing treason.
Like they should be executed.
It wasn't a call to violence.
It was just a pretty standard like, hey, like these people are committing treason.
And when you commit treason, you get the death penalty.
And if people don't understand this, being in media and intentionally having something given over to Media Matters is like intentionally giving yourself an STD.
It's like, it's like, what's the point?
Because might as well, if you're going to get hit, have a little fun in the process before you get some negative side effects of this industry.
But obviously, this is somebody who was your friend.
I'm just going to take you at your word too, right?
I mean, I mean, I can't verify any of this, but I, but I am going to say that this is something that I want to know.
And, you know, I would say the so-called cancel culture has really been around for a long time.
You know, if you, you could really trace it back many, many decades, especially in the conservative movement.
And this is the thing.
A lot of people don't know this.
People know about cancel culture when it comes from CNN and when it's from social media and the woke mob.
And we typically think of leftists.
But there is a so-called cancel culture in the conservative movement that's been going on since World War II for generations.
And you could go back to Pat Buchanan, who was one of the original victims of canceled culture.
Go back to the John Burke Society.
It's been going on for many, many decades.
And there's certain issues, there's certain opinions that you can't have.
And even in this space, maybe particularly in this space, you get blacklisted, you get pushed out, slandered, et cetera.
You know, another prominent example is Sam Francis, who he was a great writer at Washington Times in the 80s and 90s and, you know, universally loved and brilliant, a genius.
And if you read his writings from 30 years ago, you could see the Trump Revolution.
I mean, he died, you know, 15 years ago, but he was this prominent writer.
He goes to speak at American Renaissance, the first Ameran conference in 1992.
And there's a reporter there who I don't know if I want to say his name.
People can look it up, but there's a reporter there who writes about a speech, takes it all out of context, conservative, tanks his reputation, torpedoes him.
I mean, this guy was never the same after that.
Prominent Washington Times writer, then became untouchable.
And there's many examples like this over time.
I'm not the first one.
So, but yeah, I mean, that was the first time really that I had been canceled from the conservative side because I had been canceled.
I want to jump into that, but before we go any further, I want to remind you that the last time we were here doing one of these amazing episodes, we were talking about a gift that we were giving our good friend Alex, which of course was a hand-painted oil painting picture of the highest quality that comes from Paint Your Life.
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Okay, so, you know, it's interesting.
Someone who's we're by the way, if you're tracking along with this, if you're a blind viewer, we have a lot that we still have to cover.
The good stuff is just developing.
So like as you just mentioned, okay.
So to give RSBN some credit, they were getting pressure to fire you.
They people had given me ammunition.
What would you say before Charlottesville, your reputation was publicly?
This is happening privately.
Who does the world know you as publicly?
Because obviously Charlottesville is already bing ding ding ding.
So before Charlottesville, I was really just a Trump supporter.
You know, I was a campus Trump supporter.
I was definitely a rabble rouser.
I was definitely controversial.
But, you know, aside from Cassie Dillon, a few other similar types trying to cancel me and make trouble for me behind the scenes, I was generally perceived as just an up and coming pro-Trump conservative voice.
And, you know, without belaboring it, because, you know, we're going to move on and get into this other stuff.
I was 18 years old, you know, and that's a thing I think people forget.
Here I am just starting out.
I'm from the suburbs of Chicago.
Neither of my parents went to college.
I go to Boston University and I'm asking questions and I'm doing a show and I'm doing what I think you're supposed to do, which is to kind of stir the pot a little bit and ask questions.
And I'm just getting like cut off at the legs by these institutional actors.
Like, you know, imagine being me.
I'm 18.
I'm like, okay, we're supposed to talk and be pro-Trump and all this.
I start saying, well, I'm America first in every in every without exception, I should say.
And then people start going, well, we're going to take your stuff out of context, send it to media matters, call your boss.
It's like, that was a very new experience.
I didn't know how real it was, you know, as we alluded to earlier.
And, you know, people, I think, maybe forget that it's very asymmetrical.
You know, people look at me as like this villain and it's like, I'm just this random guy who is at college and it's the big players.
And they're, I guess you could say, I wouldn't call Cassie Dylan a big player, but she works for one.
And now it's like coming from my scalp because I asked the wrong question.
Like that's really, I don't think people know that about how the conservative movement works sometimes.
Yeah, it's sort of like the banks blaming, you know, students for pulling out these loans like predatory lenders.
And you're going like, hey, you know, maybe I did make a mistake here or there in pulling out this loan, but why are you giving, you know, 200 grand to an 18-year-old?
Like, this is actually functionally retarded.
And so this is interesting, though.
I do have a question because obviously there was like a secretly recorded video.
Am I right of you at one point on the phone?
Is that before Charlottesville or after Charlottesville?
Yeah, so I was at the Leadership Institute for a job training.
It's a two-week, very brutal job training.
It was like 10 hours of lectures every day.
And you're in like this dormitory style, like bunker underground on like bunk beds.
And it was like a brutal experience.
And anyway, so I was there for two, maybe three weeks or something.
And towards the end of it, we're all in the common room and there with all the other job applicants, you know, all the other contenders and we're sitting there in the common room.
It was our last night.
It was like 3, 4 a.m.
Some people are drunk.
I don't drink for the record.
So that's not even an excuse that I can use.
But, you know, it's like 3 or 4 a.m.
It's late.
We're all tired.
We're all crossing the finish line.
And we're having this talk about politics.
And we're, you know, we're giving controversial opinions and things.
And I start playing devil's advocate about, you know, certain issues.
And this girl who I thought was friendly, and this is kind of like the second woman now in your life that has kind of gone behind your back.
No, I don't think so because everybody kind of knew what I was about at that point.
But again, you know, it's always this kind of thing of like, here I am sort of stupidly coming to this in good faith, like, you know, taking people at their word and taking everything at face value.
And this is kind of the pattern basically of my experience in Con Inc. or in the conservative movement, as it were, is I come to this like, hey, we could say anything, right?
Hey, marketplace of ideas.
And then you get these kind of snake-like, you know, climbing the greasy ladder of politics people that are going to do underhanded kind of dishonest things.
So anyway, so we're having this conversation.
She gets her phone out.
And, you know, again, it's 4 a.m. conversation.
I don't know if I would do a show saying, hey, I don't, I don't, you know, support interracial relationships.
But she gets her phone out and she goes, hey, Nick, and she's filming me discreetly.
Do you think that having sex with a black guy is the same as having sex with a dog?
Which is like, no, of course not.
And that's obviously a ridiculous, like loaded question.
That's like, hey, when did you stop beating your wife?
You know, proverbial.
And I said, I said, no, no, of course they're not similar.
I said, I don't support either of those things, but no, no, I don't think they're the same thing.
But so then this clip, now, by the way, this is funny enough, she's friends with Cassie Dillon.
So she takes this clip.
And I know how that sounds, but it's what it is.
She takes his clip, shoots it off to KD.
Cassie Dillon then sends it to Media Matters, usual suspects overnight.
Because obviously I'm not asking you for this evidence right now, but like, because I'm, because I'm taking you at your word, I want to know, like, do you keep track, like receipts of this stuff?
Like, like, that you know, like, how do you know that Cassie Dillon was the one, like, that she sent it to Media Matters?
Like, did people just tell you this?
Do you have evidence to Media Matters tell you that?
But you're saying, I'm just trying to verify this stuff.
You know what I mean?
Like, because as you're going through, it's like, I trust all my guests to tell me the most accurate story, but like, cause there's going to be a lot of people who are watching this who probably are going to be shocked at some of the things that you're saying.
And this is why I just want to make sure that we're not doing a he said, she said type of thing.
That this is like, this is history, right?
And that's what I want to make sure we're getting the accurate context.
So it's like, so this video comes out.
So your reputation is now already, this is already very controversial.
I'm going to admit the first time there's a lot of questions and conversations that I think it's difficult for someone like yourself or even like Alex Jones when we did the last one with him, where it was like things that he said 20 years ago sounded insane 20 years ago.
So like when he was with George Bush and talking about a few months before September 11th, that George Bush and them were connected to Al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden and that they were trying to attack Al-Qaeda trying to attack the World Trade Centers.
And I'm sure you sound nuts.
Well, travel forward a few months, 9-11 happens.
Still don't have a clear picture because if you question that narrative, you're an unpatriotic American who doesn't understand that we need to be in war for two decades in the Middle East.
But the point was, is that now you look back and we even have a joke, oh, the Alex Jones is right jar, right?
There's a there's a meme to it, and it's almost even like his threat, even after Sandy Hook, has been diminished because it's like, well, he's actually kind of been right about most things to where we even now, shockingly, get Tucker Carlson being like, well, in fact, Alex Jones is a better journalist than pretty much most of the mainstream media.
So meaning reputations do develop, reputations change, but there's always lulls.
And I would say this is right when we hit your lull.
And that's why, like, I don't want people to think that just like Alex is not who he was, he's who he is now and who he can always be.
Let's jump into this.
So Charlottesville, I would say one of the biggest honeypots from being around a lot of things, the pandemic, January 6th, et cetera, I'm now fully convinced that the narratives around this event, the official narratives, are in fact a lie.
But I don't know what's the truth and what's a lie because the facts are so difficult to track because again, everyone has such a bias.
It's like, I don't know.
So I'm going to ask you this.
Why did you choose to go and attend Charlottesville?
And were you attending as a participator in a protest or were you attending as a media personality covering an event?
Well, you know, that's a really complicated question, honestly, because it meant one thing before the election and in 2016.
And then after the election, it took on this different character.
There were some sort of defining schismatic moments where at one point it was a very broad term, which meant every like Milo and Cernovich and Jordan Peterson and lots of people.
And then there was kind of this split.
There were a few events like the Deplorable, Baked Alaska and Richard Spencer were disinvited from the Deplorable, which was hosted by Cernovich and Jeff Giza.
And then there was the NPI conference, National Policy Institute conference, where Richard Spencer said, Hail Trump, hail victory.
So anyway, so in May, they offered me, and I said, yeah, I'm not really a part of this.
I don't support, you know, maybe in 2016 I did when it was more broad, but when it turned into the Spencer sort of thing, I was like, yeah, I'm not really a part of that.
So then in August, I'm glad you brought up that out of context clip because when that clip came out from the Leadership Institute, I came out very strongly on Twitter and defended myself.
And I gained like 10,000 followers because I was on Twitter saying, you can't slander me.
Like, this is a lie.
You took this out of context.
This is underhanded.
Nobody's going to buy this.
And, you know, a lot of people kind of rallied to my cause because they saw what was going on.
People are tired of this stuff.
You know, like people are sick of these games where it's like, oh, we got you.
We secretly recorded you and you said the wrong thing in private and now your life is over.
I was like, no, I refuse to play by those rules.
Sorry, I'm not going to go away now just because you think you caught me saying something or whatever.
And so anyway, so this was kind of like one of my first viral moments on social media.
And Faith Goldie actually reached out to me because of this because everybody saw how I defended myself and they said, wow, like this kid's really impressive.
He's really inspiring.
He's not going to let them sabotage him.
And so Faith Goldie started following me on Twitter.
And I'm not trying to throw her under the bus.
I love her.
She's a great friend of mine.
But, you know, she DMs me.
And she was with Rebel Media at the time, which Rebel is very mainstream.
I think it was during that she went on this podcast.
But so before Seaville, she was a rebel, which was popular.
And, you know, at that point, what I had heard about Seaville was this.
It was a protest about the removal of the Robert E. Lee monument at UVA, which I supported, or rather, you know, I supported protesting the removal of the monument.
I do not support the removal of Confederate statues.
So that was the explicit purpose of the rally was we're protesting the name change of Lee Park and the removal of the monument, which, you know, I'm, I support that cause.
So I heard that.
And then I also heard, okay, like I said, Faith Goldie reached out and she said, hey, are you going to Charlottesville?
And I said, well, I don't know.
I wasn't really planning on it.
This was, mind you, like three days before the rally.
She goes, well, you better figure it out.
You better get there because like everyone's going to be there.
And I was like, oh, okay.
And so I had heard at that point that Sam Hyde was going to be there, Gavin McInnis and the Proud Boys and Faith Goldie.
And I'm sort of surveying the landscape and I'm thinking, well, it's a cause I support.
It seems like a broader coalition than I thought previously.
Before, I thought it was a few, you know, wackadoos.
Now it seems like it's more mainstream people who I actually watch and like.
So I bought last minute $600 plane ticket because it was like literally the day before.
I flew in that Saturday.
You know, there was the Tiki Torch thing on Friday.
I landed in Charlottesville Saturday morning, the day after.
I mean, I don't know if my images that I saw were correct, right?
I wasn't there.
And from being on the ground, the point is, is that, like, I'm not going to take this attacking Nick Fuentez stance on this interview like people are going to want me to take simply because I've also been, I wouldn't even call it a victim because I don't feel like a victim, but I've also been a target of large media campaigns to destroy reputations.
And I've seen how absolutely both inaccurate and in some ways intentionally excluding of key information reports can be to quickly take things you might have actually said or done and to totally destroy and eliminate your reputation, which is the whole point of the series, is bringing people on who, let's hear it from their mouths, what's actually going on and what actually happened.
And so it's like, when you're there, I need to get this through your head.
So you're there.
I know you're not a cancel culture person.
I've spoken to you briefly, but it's like, was this common?
Like people were walking around with not with swastikas.
Like, were you in this group and you saw this group and they're like, you know, I don't, I don't know what was going on.
And then people are, let's just say, throwing up Romans and, you know, walking around and, you know, carrying third right, you know, SS things.
I don't know.
I just, I've read the reports, right?
Was that what you saw?
Was that what this was?
Because like, if that's true, then why were you there?
And if it's not what this was, then what the hell was going on?
There was some of that, but, you know, it's like Trump said, there were fine people on both sides.
And Trump even acknowledged that there was a contingent of people that were there who were protesting the name change of Lee Park and the removal of the monument.
And for the record, I was about to get into sort of my day there because, you know, that was like how I was known for years, was like Seaville attendee.
But this was the extent of my involvement.
So I land Saturday morning.
I get to my hotel, walk outside my hotel door.
I see people walking towards Lee Park, which is where the protest is happening.
We get about a few blocks and we're blocked off by riot police.
We go, hey, we're trying to get to Lee Park.
And they go, nope.
The rally had been dispersed.
So by the time I get there, the rally has been dispersed by the police.
And I go and the people that were in the rally are marching towards a secondary location, McIntyre Park, maybe a half mile away or whatever.
And so, you know, I turn and see, you know, there's police sort of blocking off the way to Lee Park and they're directing people towards the street where I see people marching in a different direction.
So I just join up with them, march a little bit.
We get to McIntyre Park, and then there's this rumor going around that they're going to send in the National Guard.
The mayor and the governor called it an unlawful assembly and they're going to start arresting people.
So I got in an Uber, went back to my hotel.
I was it.
And for that, now, mind you, that participation, which amounted to maybe a couple hours, you know, and not even at Lee Park, not even at the Tiki Torx thing, that was defining for me for months because of what it was.
Oh, he was at Seaville.
He was there in the city on the day.
So that means all these things.
And that's the kind of like reputational assassination that they engage in.
If anybody were, well, the media and of course, specific particular people in the conservative movement.
Because, you know, when you see the extent of my career, it's like, well, why do I get called certain things?
It's because I asked certain questions.
It's because I crossed certain people.
And so it's like, you know, why did Media Matters do this hit piece about me?
Was it because they were trawling through RSBN's original content or was it targeted?
Because I upset the wrong person by asking the wrong question.
And now the media matters hit piece comes out and I'm identified as this nut job, you know, guy who's advocating violence.
Okay.
And then I wind up at Charlottesville.
Again, I'm 18 years old at the time.
And not to go, oh, I was so young and so ignorant.
But there is a youth factor there where I'm not this big political guy.
I never had a job or an internship.
And I go there because I was under the impression it was going to be one way and then it's something else.
And for that, you know, people are telling me, well, your life is over.
You know, you messed up and it's game over for you.
And it's like, you know, at that point, I guess I realize the gravity of this situation where we really live in this very delicate, as people are finding out now, society where you have to be very careful about what you do and say because again, it's, it's a matter of what you say and who you offend.
And then it's like, then they're after you.
And once they're after you, they never stop chasing you and lying and slandering.
And the thing is, you just don't have a, it comes down to who has the bigger megaphone.
And so it's like me, a guy on RSBN on a YouTube channel versus Chicago Tribune, which does a big article about Charlottesville Area Teen rallies at Charlottesville.
And it's like, I can't compete with that and tell my side of the story.
You know, it's me in my friend's college dorm room with a laptop and a microphone taped to a microphone stand.
And you could see me, there's a picture of me hanging on my green screen and this piece that Boston Globe did about me.
That versus Daily Wire and Media Matters lying about me.
You know, and it's like, so, and I hate coming across as like, oh, everyone's out to get me.
But it's what it is, though, it's interesting you bring this up, right?
That sometimes you basically, I guess I used even debt last time as an example.
It's like the same issue with reputation is like debt.
It's like you getting out of college with $200,000 in debt is not the same thing as getting out of college with no debt.
Straight up, you're starting behind, right?
So it's like you're starting in a negative net worth.
And so what I think happens is that like there's a certain stage of somebody's career like yours where people see this person could be promising.
They could, you know, they could be something that they view you as a threat.
And so even if you don't do anything hyperbolic or too insane, they will still write you off and try to destroy you because they see you as a threat and they don't want to compete.
I think that's true because I found that I had more problems with media last year than I did this year because when they see a quick assent of somebody or somebody gaining a lot of popularity or attraction, like I would say last year around June 2020 is when things really shifted from being a YouTuber to starting like breaking into the political scene and genuinely, you know, getting involved with the bad people in the world.
And, you know, really getting my hands dirty was like during that, those three or four initial months, it was like hit piece after hit piece after assassination attempt after blacklist after uninvitation after, you know, media credentials revoked.
And it was just like a quick boom, And it's like most people, if you're there, don't have what it takes to survive that.
And I think that that's what no one understands.
It's not like an accident.
Like this guy just did something wrong.
It's an intentional on their end.
Let's find everything.
So with me, if they can get, you know, a little bit like, oh, he got this fact wrong or this or that, they create a hit piece.
But for you, it's like, bingo, got him.
Charlottesville, racist, Nazi, white supremacist.
I mean, and it's not just you because they got, to this day, we're still talking about Trump in Charlottesville.
But the point was, it was like anybody who was there, they used Charlottesville to immediately make them out, including the president.
I want to say this, because as people hear this, they're going to be like, oh, are you trying to justify this?
I'm not doing anything to justify anyone.
I'm trying to say that this event was used to make somebody who wasn't there, the president of the United States, Donald Trump, appear to be a Nazi.
And that is still the narrative to this day that one of the evidences that Trump is a Nazi is because Charlottesville happened and he wouldn't condemn it, which is also untrue.
And people don't realize that they see the media say, oh, such and such a thing about a person.
But this is a very calculated strategy.
It is about reputational character assassination.
You know, and everyone has this.
Tucker Carlson has those old radio appearances where he made some off-color remarks and Alex Jones has his thing and Donald Trump has their thing.
And at this point, people just have to sort of wisen up and realize this is what the media does.
And that's just it.
It's not like somebody, oh, you made a mistake.
You made a boo-boo.
No, they find a target and then you're right.
Then the person goes under the microscope and they turn over every rock and every leaf and find every, and then they stretch anything that they can find.
And then they're going to stretch it and the worst angle and extrapolate the worst thing out of it.
And they're able to get away with this because most people are, you know, I don't know, social conformists.
And so I guess if they're told, you know, this person said the wrong thing or did the wrong thing, people are willing to say, oh, you know, they're not good.
But people really need to think about it this way.
It's like, if the people who are in politics right now, the pundits, the politicians, are those that have not been canceled?
Why have they not been canceled?
Is it because they've never said anything wrong in their life or is it because they're not a target?
Are people perfect?
Do people not make mistakes their whole life?
No.
So they're not a target.
Why are they not a target?
Are we supposed to have an environment of people in politics who are perfect?
They're not real human beings.
They've never said anything off-color, never made a mistake.
Or if they have, you could say in a sense that, you know, maybe the media kind of lords that over them.
Maybe there's this sort of latent potential of step out of line and we've got the book.
Step out of line and we've got your record right here ready to go.
The hit pieces, the smears, like Donald Trump's a good example.
Celebrity, adored, everybody loved him, ran for president.
And then they found, oh, he's had all these sex scandals and oh, all this bad stuff went on.
And so people really have to think about, you know, when people in the media write these kinds of hit pieces, this is a very calculated information weapon.
That's what it is.
It's like a form of informational warfare.
That's how they can take people without without shooting them or whatever is blow up their reputation.
And all that's left, I don't know that they're any perfect people, but all that's left are people that are just not, you know, they're going with the flow.
They're going along with things.
And so ultimately, if people want a change in politics, people are going to have to start supporting the real human beings.
I say that a lot on my show.
I'm a real human.
People watch my show and it is off-color and it is rough around the edges and it is offensive and some people do find it insulting.
But the benefit is you know that I'm independent.
I'm autonomous.
There's nothing that hasn't been written or said or lied about me.
Everybody knows everything about me.
Everybody knows where I came from and what I did and what I said.
It's all documented.
And so people can have the confidence of knowing here's a guy who, you know, there's not some shadowy guy saying, oh, you better not step out of line or here goes this tape or here goes this thing.
People know I've had my name dragged through the mud.
And so really on some level, there's not as much for me to lose as other people.
And therefore, what you're getting is sincerity, authenticity.
You're getting a real sort of analysis, a real take as opposed to, you know, somebody that's being put up to do it.
An interesting thing, and I want to talk about that.
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So it is interesting, though.
I was going to say, so it's like, it's interesting.
Cause the reason why I had you back on, I've been debating this for a little while, okay, for a few reasons.
I'm sure you're aware of them.
You and I had a couple interviews, like I mentioned earlier.
Yeah, so it's actually, it's a pretty good, I think Michelle Malkin came up with this.
I don't want to blame her.
You know, maybe she doesn't want to, but con Ink is brilliant because you have this conservative movement, not the Republican Party, but you've got this movement.
You've got think tanks, you've got media, you've got lots of different types of organizations.
And it reflects how, you know, a lot of people think the conservative movement is about putting conservatives in office and then having conservative policies passed.
What it's really about, and Conan gets to this, is that the Inc. is that it's like a business, you know, Inc. like incorporated.
It's like a business.
It's a for-profit enterprise as opposed to, you know, a moral thing or it's like, oh, we're trying to fix America.
It's like, well, it's a business.
It's all about, it's about money flowing into and around.
And then the con part is an abbreviation of conservative, but also has a connotation of like a con, like a racket.
And so that's con ink.
It's like, well, it's just, it's moneyed racket.
You know, that's basically what that means.
It expresses how, you know, maybe at one point, I don't know when this would be, the conservative movement was about Christianity and it was about patriotism and it was about traditionalism.
And now it's really about bringing money in to perpetuate itself.
You know, I look at a lot of these organizations and I think they're really about getting money from, you know, donors or whatever.
And it's really maybe at one point it was about, you know, putting that money towards getting someone elected or getting a, you know, Roe v. Wade overturned.
You know, that's timely right now.
And now it's really about how can we pay the people that do the fundraising?
And then they do the fundraising so they could pay the people that do it.
And it becomes a sort of self-perpetuating thing, which doesn't exist for any other purpose other than its own perpetuation.
And, you know, it's calling into question the value of something like that.
Like, in other words, Fox News is huge, Republican Party's huge.
There's no shortage of money.
The conservative movement is awash with capital and everything.
But yet, the country goes in the same direction all the time.
So it's like, well, clearly we're not really getting a return here because the conferences get bigger and the studios get nicer and we get more people elected and people become president and they are in Congress.
But yet, you know, abortion still remains.
Gun restrictions still remain.
Immigration, you know, is still massive and it's illegal and it's pouring over all the time.
And it's like, okay, so why does this exist?
It seems like, you know, the sort of political objective is secondary to the objective, which is growing itself, sort of like a tumor or something.
And it's not everybody.
Of course, it's a more complicated picture than that.
There are idealists in there.
There are people that want to do the right thing.
But it seems like, broadly speaking, a lot of these organizations and the people in them agree.
That's the thing.
There's a lot of people in there who agree with that critique.
You know, they're solid people, but the organizations have been corrupted and turned into, you know, just another one of these businesses.
Yeah, a good example, I think, of that that I saw in practice.
And I see a lot of things, right?
So I always tell, I always tell the SOBs here, slightly offensive backers, there's a lot you don't see behind the scenes, right?
So it's easy to judge people based off, you know, briefly being with them for an hour or two a day, but you don't see what's really going on.
And I think like a good example is when you go to like the Heritage Foundation in DC, which has, you know, for Liberty on the sign, and then it says like masks required to enter.
You know, and you're just like, this is one of our think tanks.
This is supposed to be one of our big groups of people.
This sort of like contradiction, it is interesting you bring that up.
Well, because we have a patriot like you here and you're a solid guy.
And like I said, there are exceptions and there are friendly people in these different organizations, but you can find examples like that all up and down, like CPAC, sponsored by Google.
And I remember like three years ago, I think it was, they had a panel on tech censorship and they were sponsored by Google.
And this is not like a conspiracy.
They have like a giant banner of all their sponsors and Google's up there.
And it's like, how do you have a panel on tech censorship?
And then you're taking money from Google to subsidize the conference.
It's like, I brought you on, though, because despite all of this, what I've noticed is that I've appreciated your authenticity.
And it just took me a few years because I felt like, you know, where we both were in our careers, that wasn't the best start to a good interview.
But I feel like over the years, I've been able to gain a better footing to be able to entertain and not entertain entertainment way, but entertain different guests that are of a different caliber in order to actually have productive discussions, which I would assume you probably would say we're having a pretty good fair discussion today, I'm sure.
Because I feel like this is going good.
But it's interesting because a lot of people can't separate you from your followers, okay?
The Groipers, as they're called.
Now, a huge reason why I want to talk about this is obviously things happened in between Charlottesville and 2017, but we come to this actually what is, I think it's a Wikipedia page even for this, something known as the Groyper Wars.
So it's like a variation of Pepe, you know, Pepe the Green Frog meme.
Grouper is sort of like a, it's like a version of that.
It's like an alternative version of that.
And Groiper colloquially, there it is, pictured there.
There's, that's what a Groiper looks like.
Colloquially came to describe people that follow me watch my show and then were showing up to Q ⁇ A sessions during the Charlie Kirk campus tour and asking questions that made him uncomfortable.
So we covered a lot of protests outside their events where we were really able to do that.
That great era of the BTFO, the Libs.
That was such a great era.
You know what I mean?
Like when they couldn't tell you what transgender was, but they were.
And they would make, and this is when it was cute and funny still.
And we were like, ha ha ha.
We didn't realize it was going to become like laws and stuff that you couldn't misgender.
Yeah.
So this is going on, right?
And this is sort of where you pop into my radar more interestingly because during this time, I was actually doing a tour with Turning Point, like 12 schools or whatever.
And people started popping up.
Students would pop up at the Q ⁇ A section.
This is how I became aware of what this Groyper War was.
So the audience put into perspective.
I'm working with Turning Point, giving speeches on like liberals.
And then people would stand up and would ask me very complex questions about particularly, which I knew what they were doing, but a lot of things about like USS Liberty and mostly Israel-centered questions.
Okay.
So then I come to understand, like, what's going on?
Why am I just showing up in random schools around the country and kids keep asking me the same questions?
And it's usually related to Jews, Israel, or something like that.
There's got to be a thing.
Turns out there's this war going on called the Groyper War.
That wasn't a huge part of it, but meaning I just became aware of it while in the middle of it, where there was this, as I would hear in the background, this little shithead named Nicholas J. Fuentes, who was, this is what I was hearing, was mad about the Jewish support inside of Turning Point and was mad at Turning Point.
I'm going to give you a chance to explain for whatever A, B, and C and was trying to take them down.
And this doesn't just include, by the way, if people are knowing this, like this is not just a battle of media personalities.
These are, you know, Turning Point works with some of the most prominent people, including Republicans like Dan Crenshaw, et cetera.
And you guys decided to go to war with an organization that I still personally support, that people give me shit for supporting, but I think they do a lot of good.
Why did you go to war with Turning Point?
Like, of all things, like, there's very limited resources, my guy.
Why this?
You know what I mean?
Because we know what this is.
People can look it up.
But why did you go and war against them specifically before we even talk about some of the specific battles that happened?
So, you know, it actually wasn't even initially a conscious decision.
Unlike Turning Point USA and unlike a lot of what goes on in the conservative movement, this was totally organic.
It started out with a couple of people who like my show, watch my show.
They went to, I think it was in Colorado.
I forget which school.
Two people came up during the Q ⁇ A and they asked about Charlie Kirk's support for legal immigration.
Because back then, he had a very different tone on legal immigration.
He was going from school to school, and this was his line.
He would, in his speech, say, we should staple green cards to every diploma of a foreign student, which in other words is like mass migration for people that hold a work visa.
And so one of the questions was, hey, how can you support mass legal immigration?
Isn't that not very different from illegal immigration?
And then the other one was about support for Israel in light of the USS Liberty and other scandals.
And so my fans saw that.
I saw that.
And we said, wow, this is great.
Charlie Kirk went to another school the next day, I think in Iowa.
Same thing happened.
Two guys came up, asked questions.
He went to another school in New Hampshire.
Two guys, maybe four, I think, went up, asked questions, and it turned into a thing.
And we said, yeah, this is great.
This is good stuff.
Because, you know, Charlie Kirk was up there and didn't have an answer for questions from a right-wing perspective.
You know, he was prepared for the 19-year-old Tranny who's going to go up and say, you know, why do you not believe that I'm a real woman or something?
But he wasn't prepared for a young white guy in a MAGA hat and with a rosary in his hand saying, hey, why aren't you America first 100% of the time?
Why do you support mass legal immigration?
And that, you know, totally caught him off guard.
The question as to why we pursued that further, we could get into how that unfolded further because it escalated rapidly.
Because I'm just saying, like, of all people, you know, I mean, like, I'm doing some good stuff out there with Charlie, not thinking about like anything.
Well, because, you know, so then as it played out, there were those three initial events.
It was Colorado, I think, Iowa, and then New Hampshire.
And then Charlie Kirk was going to Politicon that weekend.
I think this is the last weekend in October.
And I went to Politicon.
This is in Nashville, Tennessee.
People don't know.
This is like a convention where they bring together right and left and they have debates and they have speeches and things.
And so, you know, I go to Politicon.
The main event was Charlie Kirk debating, what's his name?
Secular Talks, Kyle Kalinske, I think.
That was the main event.
I think it was that Saturday or Sunday in the evening.
Now get this.
So I spot Charlie Kirk in the convention hall.
This is at Politicon.
And this is after those three events, after those three speeches where the Groipers came and asked questions.
And this is just getting started.
Like no one really knows what's going on.
There's a little bit of confusion.
I think he caught wind of it.
So I clocked Charlie Kirk walking around the convention center.
Somebody says, hey, Nick, taps me on the shoulder.
There's Charlie.
You should go and get a picture with him.
So I turn.
I was eating like a piece of pizza.
I put my plate down.
I turn and I start walking towards him.
And this like seven foot tall security guard intercepts me, quite literally, blocks my path, stands in front of me.
He's like, no, no, Mr. Fuentes, you're not going any further.
I'm like, yeah, get out of my way.
At this point, I don't know who this guy is.
I'm thinking, is this a cop?
Is this some guy just hassling me?
He goes, you know, Mr. Fuentes, you can't get a picture with Charlie Kirk today.
And I'm like, well, what are you talking about?
I'm trying to sidestep him.
I'm trying to get around.
And then two cops come on either side of me and like pick me up off the ground, like grab me by, now, I'm not like the tallest guy in the world.
It's not like I'm like making a, it's not like I'm a threatening figure or anything.
I'm going to get a picture, you know, casually walking up.
And two cops pick me up and they go, yeah, you better stop.
You're not taking a picture of Charlie Kirk today.
I'm like, you know, what are you talking about?
This is Politican.
Isn't that what the whole point of this is?
It's like people from different sides of the political spectrum coming together and interacting and, you know, the magic that happens when that occurs.
And so, you know, at that point, Charlie Kirk had cleared the scene and they released me.
And I'm like, what the, what just happened?
What the hell was that?
That gets better.
Then I think this was, again, this is like years ago.
So I don't remember exactly the chronology here, but I think it was the following day was the main event, the big debate.
So I'm thinking ahead of time.
I'm like, I'm going to go to this debate and I'm going to ask a question.
I'm going to go to the Q ⁇ A and I'm going to participate in the Grey Per War and I'm going to say, hey, you know, why you block me with your security?
And I think he called me a troll in one of the events the week prior.
I was going to ask about that.
So I figured, though, that they were going to try and block me from getting into the event because they blocked me from getting the picture.
They know who I am.
They know my face.
So I put on a disguise and there's a video of this.
All this was documented on video.
This is all out there.
There's pictures of me getting picked up by the cops.
I've seen it with Rob Smith and I've seen the, you know, the anal sex is conservative value.
Some of it, some of it was funny.
Some of it was, you know, like some of it was menacing.
Like, I mean, even like I, when some people like, there's not going to be a lot of clips that would ever surface for me because I just answered the questions.
Like, I just was just like, can we criticize Israel?
And, You know, there was something to be said about the spirit and the energy that was on our side of, you know, all these young guys going out there.
And really, this is such an endearing thing.
Like, you know, what it turned into or how they framed it after the fact is so ridiculous because here it was, these young guys, young college-aged guys, normal, well-adjusted Trump supporters, Christians, they're coming up in their MAGA hats and their rosary and they're making jokes and they're asking about the things you're not supposed to talk about.
And, you know, the lengths that they went to to prevent this from happening, they started saying, we're going to have one line for the Democrats and one line for the Groipers.
And then they wouldn't take the questions from the Groipers or they would cut the stream when the questions were asked.
Or, you know, they did all this kind of manipulative stuff.
And they were so mad.
And the hit pieces were flying and they said, oh, this guy's a troll and so on.
And it sort of like embodied, I feel like the spirit of 2016, where it was like, you had this mimetic energy of like, we're telling the truth.
We're on the right side of history.
We've got the fun.
We've got the memes.
We're funny.
And then you got the kind of Jannies, the janitors on the other side who are, you know, you can't say that.
You can't ask that question.
Hey, hey, you know, you can't ask about dancing Israelis or whatever.
So I will say there was a lot of fun to it.
It was this mischievous spirit that I love.
And that's what my show is all about.
But the purpose of it, because there was a serious purpose to it, was to expose for the donors as well as for the people that are supporting these institutions, like what they're really supporting.
Because I know that a lot of donors are giving money to Turning Point and they're just writing a check.
You know, they don't know what Turning Point's about.
They don't watch the conferences.
They write a check.
You know, they get a pamphlet.
They send it off.
This is how donor politics works.
I know I've talked to donors.
And so a lot of them have no idea what goes on at Heritage, what goes on at Turning Point, who these people really are, their real personal politics.
You'll find a lot of liberals on the Hill working for GOP, congressmen and senators.
You'll find a lot of liberals at Heritage at these other organizations.
And you'll find they engage in a lot of stuff that's conservative media as well.
And so, so anyway, so that was part of it, sort of a concerted part of the strategy, but also for people that are, you know, subscribing to these organizations and watching their shows and whatever.
And the point was to go up and say, fundamentally, why are you really conservative?
How can you say you're conservative?
And it wasn't just about Israel.
People frame it that way, but that was one among other issues.
The Israel thing was specifically about how can you say you're America first when you're fixated on this other country?
Because, you know, the context of this was that a few months prior, perfect example, Charlie Kerr goes to this fundraiser and it's this Zionist fundraiser.
I forget the name of the organization.
It might have been the Zionist Organization of America or something.
And there's a clip from his speech where he says something to this effect.
He says, you know, I love America.
He goes, I love Chicago, where he's from, where I'm from.
He goes, I love Boston and I love the Grand Canyon.
He goes, but if you were to take a desert island with random people and give them the Constitution, that would be America.
And you can't say that America's a particular place or a particular people.
It's about timeless ideas.
In the same breath, he says, well, but Israel is very different because their place and their people, that's the essence of their nationhood.
So America's an idea.
And all the people in America apparently are interchangeable, replaceable, expendable.
The land too, and what we've built and the history and our experiences, America's just this great big liberal idea of like, I don't even know, free speech and big marble buildings and big gulps.
If even that, if even that, because apparently you could have some kind of ghetto, you could have shanty town, mud hut, refugee camp.
As long as they have the Constitution, though, it'd be America.
But Israel is another story.
And, you know, there was one question, and this maybe gets more to the heart of the matter.
You know, somebody went up and said, Charlie, if the U.S. president, if you were president of America and you had to make a decision that would come at the detriment of Israel, but benefit America, would you make that decision?
And Charlie said, well, that's a false dichotomy.
That would never happen.
And it's like, isn't there something wrong with that response?
You may support Israel.
You may support Japan.
You may support NATO.
You may support, you know, I'm Italian.
You may support Italy.
But if you're American and you say you're America first and you say you're MAGA and conservative, if you can't say you would put America in a hypothetical, completely generic decision, you couldn't put America first over another country, that's a problem.
You know, and I think people needed to hear that.
I think people needed to hear that clearly there is some kind of a conflict of interest going on here because, you know, I would be able to say, yes, absolutely, 100%.
I'm America first before anybody, including our allies, any of our allies.
And so it was about that.
It was also about, you know, the social liberalism that was going on.
You know, Charlie Kirk was on a stage with Rob Smith, who goes up there and says, I'm America's favorite gay black veteran.
And it's like, well, hang on a minute.
Are we in favor of homosexuality as conservatives?
I thought we were Christians.
You know, Turning Point just starting this new thing called Turning Point Faith.
It's like, I thought we were traditional.
I thought we were Christian.
I thought we had these kinds of social values.
And yet they're parading around these people.
And, you know, it's one thing to have like a gay person there.
It is what it is.
But to be promoting that, for him to say that on the same stage and for that to be sort of part of the program, again, it gets to the question of how conservative really are you?
And then the final thing was on immigration.
He was going around saying, among other things, staple green cards to diplomas.
In other words, make every foreign student from India and China a permanent resident.
He would say things like, I'm not making this up.
You could find the quotes.
He would say, you know, when I fly from Chicago to Las Vegas, I see a lot of open space.
This is what like liberals say.
In other words, for immigrants to come here.
You know, when people say we're full, we don't need any more immigration.
He would say, I fly from Chicago to Vegas and I see a lot of room for immigrants.
He said at one point we could bring in 40 million legal immigrants through work visas in a period of 10 years, 40 million in 10 years.
This was his tour.
And so it's like Turning Point is rapidly becoming one of the most important conservative institutions in the country.
It's the biggest youth campus organization.
And what's their program?
It seems like it's something to the effect of America's not a real nation.
It's an idea.
We are sort of confused about putting America first.
They support homosexuality and they're in favor of mass legal immigration.
And so the point of the Groyper Wars was to sort of suss out, like, again, not from a left-wing perspective, but from a right-wing critique.
How can you claim to be a conservative when this is your agenda?
There's nothing conservative about any of that.
Not socially, not in terms of demographics, not in terms of identity, culture, nationhood.
And again, people needed to hear that and needed to hear that clash.
And largely they did.
And it's interesting, you know, then Charlie Kirk, in sort of admission that this was the case, he came out, I think, in December and wrote an op-ed.
It was probably ghostwritten, but he came out with an op-ed under his name saying, I no longer support stapling green cards to diplomas after that happened.
If it was to expose what I find isn't what is weird from the end of this is that if you guys did change his mind or if you didn't, right?
Maybe it wasn't you.
Maybe somebody else changed his mind.
Okay.
It doesn't matter.
But if his views changed, I'm just saying.
Why is it so important that as I think the wars are continuing?
Like, I don't think this, this is one of the parts in your story that I don't think has ended.
I still think the animosity between Groipers and Turning Point is really still an active thing, right?
And I think that they saw you guys as just being annoying that were trying to hijack events that were meant to expose the left.
That's what they said, right?
So I'm just to be clear.
But in the end of all this, the right has changed.
drastically, accelerated.
It started with the riots is really what it started with.
It started with the BLM riots, where the acceleration happened.
The election pushed it over the edge.
And of course, January 6th is the icing on top, which we'll get to in a moment.
But a lot of people have had to confront many things, right?
Where a man would say, well, I just want us all to get along.
I'll sit down with someone like Ali Beth Stuckey, who I've mentioned on previous podcasts, probably has one of the safest brands, if not the safest large brand in the entire conservative media movement, is now willing to work with someone like me and says, I will work with new people that I couldn't work with because I realize that the other people, it's not about working with them.
I can't live with them is what Allie told me on air.
I can't live with them anymore.
So I will work with people who I previously may not have been able to work with.
If somebody like Charlie Kirk, who's very influential in the right-wing movement and is known nationally, has had his mind effectively changed either by proxy to you, by you directly, or by somebody proxied to you, et cetera.
How is that not a win for you guys and a point of celebration?
And why is that still a point of contention between the Groupers and an organization like Turning Point USA?
And two years later, he's moved closer to us than we have to him.
We haven't moved at all, but yet he sounds like we do every day now.
And so I do take that as a victory.
But here's why it's ongoing.
It's a very sort of tenuous thing because, you know, on the one hand, you know, we could believe for the sake of argument that Charlie Kirk had a sincere conversion.
He changed his mind.
We could also imagine a scenario where, you know, Tucker Carlson's a prime time guy now.
He's an effective thought leader of the GOP conservative movement.
Tucker is really shaping the conversation in a big way.
And, you know, Donald Trump, of course, ex-president.
The conservative movement has changed a lot, largely because of leaders like Trump and Tucker.
And so, you know, is it fair to say that there's at least a possibility, it's plausible that, you know, Charlie, among others, is just saying what other people are saying these days.
This is where the base is.
This is where Tucker is.
This is where Trump is.
And so that's where he has to be now as a consequence.
So that's where to me, it's a little bit more tenuous, where I'm not really willing to say, you know, oh, he tweeted the right thing.
He had this great big epiphany suddenly when Tucker, the most popular cable TV show host, talks about it.
Because it does tend to follow that pattern.
You know, earlier this year, Tucker said something to the effect of, you know, Joe Biden admitted that mass immigration is about eroding the white population.
Literally the next day, Charlie Kirk on his show says that immigration is about degrading white demographics.
And it's like, so, you know, and I don't know his heart.
I don't know what's in his heart.
I don't know if it's sincere or not, but you take somebody who has one position one year and then the diametrically opposite position the next year.
Can you say, okay, pack it up, folks?
We're in good hands now.
I don't know that we can necessarily say that yet.
And maybe the biggest reason is this.
You know, since he's come around, has he extended an olive branch to people like me and others?
I'm still paying from the turning point conferences.
I'm still can't step foot in their events, even if I buy a ticket and hold one.
I still can't be brought onto a turning point chapter to speak.
And the same goes for anybody that's associated with me.
People that even know me or are friends with me get kicked out of these conferences to this day.
Yeah, well, that's what's what I, well, that's what I'm that's one of the main things I'm interested to find out about is like, does it fuel you to be blacklisted and kicked out from the establishment, right?
Or is there a little bit of a, hey, a misdemeanor?
Like, you're going, where's credit where credit's due?
Like, you know, like, I mean, because like this is an important factor.
Like, people will say things to me like, hey, and I'm not cozing myself up to this.
I guess there's a cozy.tv ad there, but I'm not actually advertising that.
But no, but like people will write things, right?
Like, oh, like for that specific piece, you may have been able to win a Pulitzer.
And I go, but look, I know that I'm not in that system.
I never could win one of their prizes.
I never, I could literally solve the Middle Eastern war crisis and I still wouldn't get a Nobel Peace Prize.
Like, I just don't live in that world where your recognition is mattered.
But then we sort of carved out our own world, right?
Where we still have awards and the foundational awards and things.
And there's that community that men naturally want is some recognition.
We still love, you know, YouTube sends you the plaque.
You're still like, yeah, it's a little bit of a sign.
Like, hell yeah, we did it.
Are you bitter and twisted that as the right has moved more towards some of the things that you espoused that they called you crazy for?
That there has been no olive branch extended from some of the biggest names in the industry.
I mean, does that leave you kind of frustrated or how do you feel about that?
Yeah, there's definitely a little bit of resentment.
I mean, I think it would be hard for there not to be because, you know, especially somebody like myself, I've really been through the ringer as far as slander and media hit pieces and deplatforming and blacklisting.
And I'm like an independent individual guy.
So there is some resentment that there's been no like olive branch, even though I, in other words, I took the slings and arrows for these kinds of positions before they were popular.
You know, I was saying these things when you became radioactive for saying them.
You know, I was at Charlottesville and we did the Groyper Wars and I was on Internet Blood Sports and we said the things that you're not supposed to say.
And after we won the hearts and minds and changed the conversation, and you could attribute that partly to us, you know, some might say a lot, some might say a little.
But either way, we paid the price for saying these things before they were popular and now they are popular.
And now people seem to be kind of bandwagoning on maybe because they're sincere.
Maybe they see which way the wind is blowing.
And yeah, it is frustrating that that's how it's how it's played out.
The thing is, though, at the end of the day, you know, why I do this and why I take the slings and arrows is because I care.
You know, I want the conservative movement to profess an authentic conservatism.
So I try not to let the resentment get in the way.
The real issue is the concern.
The concern is that, you know, the people that are now adopting these things, honestly, people may believe this.
They might not.
If I felt like we were in good hands, that like, you know, the current leaders of the conservative movement had it all figured out and they were on the same page, you know, would it be worth it for me to keep on doing what I'm doing?
Honestly, maybe not necessarily because it's very tough to do what I do.
It's not very, it's rewarding in some ways, but it is really a very strenuous thing.
But that's just it.
I mean, I look at what's going on right now in the current climate and it's like we're moving backwards and not forwards in a lot of ways.
You know, people talk about Trumpism without Trump and they talk about these things like multiracial working class populism.
And I'm like, we're moving in the wrong direction.
And it would be, and keep in mind, like, we don't have time.
We ran out of time 20 years ago.
And so we can't afford to stay in the same place, let alone to be falling backwards.
And so, you know, in some regards, people are coming around and they're saying some of the right things, but that's just it.
Saying the right things isn't really enough.
We need to see a little bit more.
And, you know, I'd be lying if I said there wasn't some resentment, but that's not really what motivates me.
So it's not about getting, it's not about getting at them.
You're still at the point where you would say genuinely, like in your heart of hearts, that you're still doing this because you want what's best for the people of this country.
You want what's best.
But like to get into that, because I want to let people know, if you're watching this, this would be airing shortly before that Nick will be on my other night nightly show at You Are Here, which is at 6 p.m. Central, five days a week, which you should, you guys should definitely subscribe to that, where I'm going to get into more of your views, right?
That's going to be, we're going to discuss more like topics, topical matters, get into the discussion because that's what that show is.
It's a little contrarian.
We like to bounce off each other, et cetera.
So I don't want to go too far into this, but if that's still what's with you, it's an interesting thing that kind of changed my perspective on you is that I always thought of myself as being like other than you, right?
Because you always go, well, like, this is what everyone always does.
And I know they do this because I've done it and I talked to people where it's like, it's like, let's say sin, you know, it's like, well, but I don't, I'm not as bad, you know, like you might me, maybe you'd be like, well, I do this, but I'm not a homosexual, you know, like maybe that's what you would say, right?
And so like, but then it's like, but then you go to the homosexual and there's always someone, and then there's the transgender degenerate child molester.
Like, I mean, it could just keep going down the rabbit hole of like separation from God type of thing.
And so you can look down and feel like you're an other from somebody because you're not as like there.
And that goes with reputations too in the media business.
Sometimes you're like, well, look, I get uninvited from a lot of things.
It's always a complicated my working relationship with the establishment, right?
It's extremely complicated.
The only reason why I still have a job is because the CEO of Blaze, Tyler Cardin's, a personal friend of mine, he likes me and he's very based and I like him a lot.
And he's on a true intellectual journey.
And he's had to save my ass a lot with a lot of people.
He's had a lot of meetings, a lot of calls, been like, I swear Elijah's not intentionally a bad guy.
He's just, he's like you.
He's authentic.
He's genuine.
He's just trying to figure out the truth.
Give him room to figure it out type of thing.
God has been good with that.
And I don't think I realized how much and how bad the slander and the deplatforming and the misreputation can or misrepresentation can get until January 6th.
And, you know, in between this, the Groyper Wars, you guys can look it up about the America First PAC one and two.
He, you know, I know that's why just to kind of do the background, you know, people even complain, not that this was your motive, but why don't you do your own thing?
You guys did do your own thing.
You have your conferences.
You put them on as a young man.
They were very successful, had congressmen speak at them.
I mean, this is a real thing.
And if you guys want to look those up, there are speeches you can find out about them.
I may actually go record and see what's going on there because it'd be interesting to interview some people.
But, you know, we go through the Stop the Steal.
You were a big part of that.
And I don't want to go too far into that, but I know that you were rallying around the country.
So just briefly, before we go into January 6th, you got involved in the election stuff.
And I need you to just be a little bit careful here because we all know I'm just going to say it was the most fair, free, and safe election, enough so that you realized you need to campaign around.
And you were actually one of the original, I guess you and Ollie and even Alex Jones was a part of some of them.
You were one of the original people traveling the country pushing this challenging to make sure that there was election integrity.
You know, we, I did my stream on election night and, you know, it's funny because I called it.
You know, I remember it was like 2 a.m. or something.
And I remember saying, you know, okay, well, they're not adding any more votes in Pennsylvania and Michigan and Wisconsin.
I said, it looks like Trump's winning.
So we're going to wrap it up and we'll see if they update the tally tomorrow.
So I wrap up the stream.
You know, I get changed.
I'm in bed.
And I start checking the results again, 4 a.m.
And it's, you know, it's, as we know, what happened in Detroit and Milwaukee.
And I get a frantic text from a friend of mine who used to work in the administration.
He's going, you got to get back on air.
You got to tweet.
Someone's got to talk about this because they're, you know, they're counting votes that they shouldn't be counting.
And he said, and this is like seared it in my memory.
It hurts.
He said, once these votes are counted, they will not be uncounted.
He goes, so you got to get back on the air and tell people this is happening.
People have to like get out there and stop this because once those votes go in and, you know, we thought otherwise, and this was very precious, he goes, they're not overturned.
They're not throwing votes out, not to the tune of tens, hundreds of thousands of votes.
So we saw that happen.
And then, you know, like the next week, we hit the ground and I was in Lansing, Michigan.
And then we went out for, we went out to Atlanta to call for a special session of the state legislature to appoint their own electors.
And then we had the Million MAGA march in D.C.
And then we were in Phoenix where they had the press conference there with Rudy Giuliani to go over the evidence of voter fraud.
No, but I like, one of the guys following me is like, yeah, you child molester.
And I was like, what are you talking about?
Like, relax, dude.
I'm just carried by a beer.
You know, right, right, right.
Chill.
You know, like, I'm like, how old are you even?
Like, and that's, and that is like part of the reason why, you know, people don't work with you, to be completely honest, is, is like a lot of the things you've said that are radical have been taken out of context.
And look, I'm not even going to get into this.
Like, I'm going to talk about a little of the controversies in a second, but it's like, even if it's like, oh, the Jew jokes and this or that, like, people are offended by those things.
I'm not one of those people.
Like, I don't care if people say the N-word.
I don't care if people, you know, I don't care if Jewish people hate white people, hate whoever you want.
Do whatever you're going to do.
You do you and just be you.
And I'm not going to like not talk to you because you think differently or whatever.
But I will say being harassed in public is like one of the interesting factors that can make anyone frustrated with people of like, is like that.
But I, but I, what I noticed is that these people are just young guys.
They're a little bit eager.
They're zealous.
And like everyone, they're subject to some misinformation, some misunderstandings amongst themselves because they think everybody's like something.
I don't know.
But that's not you.
And that's what's interesting is as I saw some of this stuff, I started to see the difference between how the articles were less about you and who you were during this time and more about the groipers and the people, which were not you.
And then I see this guy out there who are going, this guy's weak.
He's a Nazi and he's a troll.
And then it's like, there's not a lot of people speaking out publicly about the election.
This is what I'm tying together.
I'm going, well, there's like nobody.
I mean, I see what's happening with the election, right?
We can't even talk about it.
It's like a quick two weeks into this and it became illegal to talk about this on social media.
I'll say, you know, and I probably should say that also for legal reasons, but it was unofficial.
I mean, we really did this because it mattered, you know, and there was nobody doing it.
You're exactly right.
It was like, you know, what happened, you know, I don't know about the terms of service and stuff, but, you know, what happened on election night happened.
And there was really no leadership on this.
There was nobody that came out, at least from the Republican Party, that said, here's the plan.
Here's what we're going to do.
We're going to go here.
You know, so it was like, you know, Ali jumped into it.
Ali Alexander, Alex Jones jumped into it.
And I just jumped into it.
I mean, I just said, hey, listen, you know, I'm in Chicago.
So Milwaukee, Lansing is nearby, or I should say Madison, Wisconsin.
So I said, hey, we're going to be in Lansing this weekend.
I just drove there with my megaphone and brought some of my followers there.
And then, you know, we participated in Million MAGA.
And Ali called me up and said, hey, we want to do something in Atlanta because they're about to certify the vote.
Can you bring your people out there?
Can you come there and bring people to our rally?
And I said, yeah, absolutely.
And this was like a grueling time.
We were traveling like every weekend.
I probably spent tens of thousands of dollars of my own money to fly there, to put people up in rooms, to put myself up in rooms, to pay for private security, to pay for all kinds of stuff.
We weren't getting funded.
You know, we weren't getting paid to do this.
I did this because, and I said it, we were out there.
I said, you know, there's a small chance we succeed, but if we do, we're going to change history.
And this like really matters.
Usually I don't really believe in protests, but I said, here's a chance where you have five swing states, five Republican state legislatures.
If we get out there, maybe we can convince some of these state legislatures.
Maybe one domino falls and it triggers and these Republican state legislatures take back their constitutional authority to appoint electors and we could swing this election.
And it was unlikely to happen, but that was kind of the game plan.
And I said, look, I'll do anything if there's even a 1% chance that we could do it and not have a vaccine mandate and a Joe Biden presidency and a new war on terror.
And we talked about all that in those speeches during these events.
So no, I mean, we heeded the call and that's just it.
You know, everybody criticizes me.
And, you know, not to break my arm patting myself on the back, but it's like, who was out there?
It was us.
I didn't see a whole lot of us.
Here's the thing.
A lot of Republicans were there for the Senate runoff, not to change the subject, but when Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue, two establishment Republicans, when they had to get elected to give Mitch McConnell a majority again, it was all hands on deck.
Everybody was in Georgia.
Everybody was doing rallies.
Everybody was there.
And they were berating Republicans who wouldn't vote for them, saying, you're stupid.
You're an idiot if you don't vote for Leffler in Purdue.
And it's like, where were all those people during Stop the Steal?
Where were those people in any of the state capitals?
Where were they at Million MAGA March?
They weren't there.
And it's like, that kind of shows you it's a pretty interesting sort of contrast.
Alex Jones, Ali, myself, Paul Gosar, we were out there to defend Trump and to overturn the stolen election.
Everybody else was out there in Georgia to give Mitch McConnell, scumbag, a majority in the Senate again and elect Leffler in Purdue.
One is basically like, you know, what she did with the stock exchange was criminal before COVID.
And they're both rhinos.
You know, they're both doing interviews saying, yeah, we're going to work with Schumer if it's a Democrat majority and we're going to pass amnesty.
And they wouldn't even say that the election was stolen.
And they're going to have Republicans go out there the day before 1-6, which was supposed to be the counting of the votes.
People are going to go and turn out for them and vote for these scumbags, these rhinos, and then give Mitch McConnell the majority when he did nothing to protect Trump, nothing to overturn the election.
It's like that just goes to show where people's priorities are at.
Where you stood on Stop the Steel to me, like where you stood on that issue and where you were and what you did is like decisive.
That speaks so much about your character because that's a moment when it actually mattered.
And everyone who gave a shit was out there, you know, part of the.
So Twitter is where politics really, really have their go.
We talk about this on the show all the time for the people out there that really don't get it.
I'm not mocking like old boomers, but people who go, well, how do you complain about Twitter?
Even you yourself would know the importance of a platform like Twitter in terms of relegating news information.
It's where the news breaks.
So January 5th, before this, you're doing Stop the Steel.
Now, I don't want to talk about the protest, the Stop the Steel protest.
I want to talk about the important events that happened that day in terms of historically and also what's been the aftermath and getting to where we are today.
So where were you on January 6th in terms of where were you?
So, you know, for the record, and I'll probably have to go on record at some point.
I show up to DC on the 5th, and the whole plan was to go to the Trump rally.
You know, there's a Trump rally on the ellipse, which is at the White House, which is like a mile away from the actual Capitol.
You know, so for people that don't know the layout of D.C., there's this rally at the White House on the ellipse outside at the lawn.
And this is an official matter.
You know, Trump got together with Stop the Steal, Women for America First, all the groups that had been doing the Stop the Steal protests, and they were going to put on one last big, like a Trump rally.
And so I had a VIP ticket for that.
I went there.
And my plan, and I have, I'm like saying this for the FBI.
It's like my plan was to go to the rally.
And I have text messages like I was going to go and then get dinner with a friend afterward.
And then I was going to go and shoot an interview for this documentary.
And then I was going to go and do a spot with Alex Jones.
Like I had my whole night planned out.
Like the plan was not occupy the Capitol.
The plan was like go to this rally and then do some media stuff and then fly home.
But yeah, so then, you know, Trump does a rally and he says, because I wasn't planning on going to the Capitol, but he said in the speech, he said, and now we're going to march to the Capitol to peacefully make our voices heard because that's where they were, you know, counting the electoral votes.
I was like, okay, you know, everybody from the ellipse then marched to the Capitol.
So I was like, all right, I'll go with them.
So I arrive on the lawn.
You know, we take some pictures.
I did a little speech and then we left.
Well, come to find out, I leave.
And, you know, you get no cell reception when you go to a big rally.
I don't know what's going on anywhere because you're at a giant rally and you're just not getting any feedback, interestingly, from the outside world.
So we leave and they go on Twitter and I see that this journalist posts a screenshot from Baked Alaska's live stream.
He was inside the Capitol and live streamed it.
And it's a screenshot from the stream and it's baked.
And it's this guy behind him, whoops, who looks nothing like me and is wearing a totally different outfit.
I'm wearing a suit and like a long coat.
He's wearing like a sweatshirt and a scarf and he's got a hat on and a hoodie.
And the guy says, oh, here's Baked Alaska, Nick Fuentes in Nancy Pelosi's office.
This goes viral.
Gets like 40,000 likes, 20,000 retweets.
And now this is what everybody's saying.
Oh, Nick was in the Capitol, Nick Storm the Capitol.
And, you know, I think that was very problematic because then this brings down law enforcement on me.
You know, now I'm under FBI investigation.
Now they're looking into everything because I was not even because I was in there, but because somebody said I was and I wasn't.
And I looked into if I could sue this guy for libel.
I could have.
You know, I, I don't want to say who, prominent conservative defamation lawyer I retained.
And I sent him everything and said, hey, can I sue for this?
Can I sue for that?
And after spending thousands of dollars, he basically said, you know, you could sue these people, but it'll cost you 80, 100 grand, and you'll get nothing in return.
And it's like, well, I'm already under investigation.
I'm going to need that money probably to defend myself against whatever comes next.
I was like, you know, whatever.
You know, that's the thing about libel and defamation.
When you're a public figure, there's really, you can't win with that.
Like, if you go to my screen, Savannah, like, this is the article that took me down, like lost most of my revenue, which is that YouTube reportedly let a Trump support a profit as he tweeted from the Capitol.
Now, I don't know if you notice with the picture they use.
Like, you look at this and you would go, that is libel.
Like, you put up a picture of somebody else on an article that's just about one person.
And you've made it look to people as you send this article as evidence of what someone did that you disagree with.
They're looking at the image and going, oh, shit, that's bad behavior.
And that's libel, that's slander.
But then, when I look into it too, this is what I'm saying.
Why I understand a little bit more of your history, whether I would have made the same choices as you, whether we have all the same views.
It's not important that that's not what this show is about.
It's saying that, like, maybe what we think about everybody is a little bit wrong.
Because if, like, this audience is so familiar with me, knows my journey, a lot of you guys have been around for years, and you know, and you look at this and you laugh because you see how inaccurate this is because you know who the real person is.
This is the kind of stuff that I've seen that's happened to Nicholas J. Fuentes: is that a lot of what I thought was true because you look like a horrible person online.
I am not going to lie to you.
Like, if everything that is said about you was 100% true and not taken out of context, I would not have you in this studio because I would think you were like an actual deplorable person because it really comes across like that.
But I did something crazy that a lot of people might not know.
I've spoke to Nick personally to find out what was true and what was not.
And that's when I decided to invite you back on because I realized that just like myself or many other people, that it's like we always thought it was the bad people that got deplatformed until President Trump got deplatformed.
The president, who we all know and loved, got removed and went, Oh, crap.
This is not just a wrong think.
It's like all think is wrong think.
And so, from the Capitol, I want to clarify: while I was inside and I did capture this event, et cetera, you weren't, but the government still has politically targeted you to the point where you were on a no-fly list, correct?
Like, I did just cover this incident with you and just saying that.
And I was also slandered too by them saying, like, oh, here's the guy who, you know, selectively edits trying to, you know, make it look like this guy was banned.
I'm like, I don't even have any allegiance to whether he's banned or not.
It just looks like he's banned.
Like I've seen people get banned from airlines before, and this is what happens.
So it's very normal stuff.
If you weren't banned, then you would have had the quad S, I think, stamped onto your boarding pass, which is increased security.
But if you can't print your pass and can't be cleared, then it means you're on a no-fly.
If I were put on the federal no-fly list for my political views, that's unprecedented in America.
I mean, there's people that have been put on the no-fly list for like being Muslim or whatever, I imagine.
But that would be the first time that for like me being a 23-year-old guy doing a show, doing a live stream on D-Live was the platform I was doing it on at the time.
Being put on the no-fly list for my views, that would elevate me to this position of like the martyr, like the civil rights icon.
You know, people said the Rosa Parks, Dinesh D'Souza.
People initially said that jokingly.
Dinesh D'Souza said, well, it's true.
I mean, he can't get on an airplane.
He had his money seized by the feds.
And so then the same day, I go to Midway Airport, different airport.
I go to Southwest, book a flight to Phoenix, Arizona.
So different airport, different airline, different destination.
And I film the whole encounter.
Same thing, 45 minutes.
She says, yeah, you can't fly today.
And I sent that to everybody.
And still, you know, nobody covered it.
And, you know, that's honestly been the most frustrating aspect is at this point, I am more thoroughly banned than anybody, period.
You know, and just to give you an idea of the extent of my banning, if you search my name on TikTok, it will tell you that they can't show the search results.
If you go on TikTok and search Nick Fuentes, it will say that's a hateful term.
If you go on Instagram, you can't send a direct message with the link to my website.
Like that's the extent to which I'm on the federal no-fly list.
I'm banned from Instagram.
In addition to everything I described before, I'm banned from Instagram, Facebook, Twitter.
I'm banned from DLive, which is a platform most people haven't heard of.
I'm banned from nearly every bank, every payment processor.
I tried banks in China.
I tried banks in Russia.
Can't get them to process payments.
Like I am probably, you know, if there is somebody who's more deplatformed, I don't know who it is.
I'm the most thoroughly deplatformed, canceled person in America.
And there's a frustration that, you know, everyone's covering this, but nobody's covering, you know, the plight of me.
And I arguably have a worse than anybody.
You know, people are like, I don't know, for example, how you could do a report about like 1.6 and sort of the war on terror that's resulted, the fallout, the political persecution, and you don't cover the guy in the no-fly list.
Or you talk about tech censorship and all this, but you don't cover the guy that's arguably more censored than anybody else.
But to be fair, like, I'm not trying to say like, I am the media.
I'm not like Faucik, I am science.
This is still the media.
And I'm having you, I'm having, but I'm, I'm having you here because I want people to see that there's something not being told, right?
So I'm not saying this is the end all, but it's saying, look, we've got to get past the bullshit of ignoring people because you don't like a joke that they made about the cookie monster.
Like, seriously, grow the up.
It's about time.
It is, it is, it is past that point where it's like, well, this is severe because if somebody even at any event, like imagine if someone at a BLM protest was like some sort of a speaker and then they got put on a no-fly list and got their money taken away.
You'd be like, okay, I don't, this is bad, sets a bad precedent, right?
Even if we had a conservative president and that's what they did, like we can't be doing this to political enemies and doing this like this because now we're going to have to keep doing this.
And when we get in power, we're going to have to do this to them.
And it's like, we're going to escalate the conflict.
And so it's like, it is interesting that when you talk about Nick Fuentes publicly, it's like, oh, the guy who made that joke.
And it's just so bad.
But then it's like, bro, this person had their money seized by the feds and was put on a no-fly list without giving any information and treated as a terrorist.
Despite what you disagree or agree with him, who cares at this point?
There are serious issues that are going on that people need to realize is happening.
And that's what I'm hoping people see from this is that it's not like you're some crazy guy that is what people say that you are.
And so the government has stepped out of their way to protect us.
You're a politically inconvenient person for a lot of people for a lot of reasons on both the left and the right.
And okay, fair.
It's a free country.
But as we're finding out, it really isn't free.
And there is a line of free speech that is too far.
And of course, that's crazy that just making a couple jokes about some type, some people and saying a few things, like you said, it's not that it's the jokes that took you down.
It's because they wanted to take you down because they knew you were the target.
And they've used one six as a honeypot to take down as many people as possible, even Owen Schroer on technicalities.
So my question to you is, I think I, do I, I don't know if, yes, I have this.
You know, going forward on this, you know, I know that you lost your Twitter.
ADL wrote this document.
I'm not going to go through it.
It's Nicholas J. Fuentes, The Five Things to Know.
And what's really funny about it is like, you know, they say some claims that are unsubstantiated.
Like Nicholas Fuentes is a white supremacist leader.
Like as, well, they deny Antifa being real.
You know, like Antifa's an idea, but white supremacy is like a, you know, there's like some forged leader of the white supremacist movement or something.
And, you know, you're a podcaster trying to forge the white nationalist alternative to the mainstream GOP.
So they go into this whole thing and, you know, you expect this and, you know, you read this and you're like, oh my gosh, this man is, you know, so bad.
Cause everyone's trained to hear those words, trigger word, trigger word, trigger word.
But then you go down to like there are other things about you, which are very interesting.
It's like, oh, Nicholas Fuentes believes that he is working to defend against leftist cultural changes that are destroying the true America.
And then they don't quote you on this.
They just go a white Christian nation.
But it is interesting because it's like, well, I think everyone watching this wants to fight against leftist cultural changes.
And America is a traditionally white Christian nation.
So like, that's not a slander.
It's just like an objective fact or truth.
So then you go down and it's like, they go into all this.
And, you know, you're not seeing there's nowhere like, here's where Nick Fuentes beat up a black guy and said the N-word.
Like there's nothing like this.
It's just these ideas.
Like, he wants to fight against transgenderism.
Like, well, I do too.
So, and then everyone watching this is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool.
Then they go, Fuentes has used his platforms to make numerous anti-Semitic and racist comments.
So you didn't do anything racist or anti-Semitic.
You made jokes in here and said some things, you said some bad things, apparently, according to these standards.
I'm just saying what it says.
But this is what's crazy.
When I read this, and it's like Fuentes promoted election fraud narratives and encourages adherents to participate in nationwide stop the steal protests, which is kind of based.
You know what I mean?
It's like, well, I like everyone watching this knows about the election, okay?
We all know.
And then it goes down here.
And then I think there's like a fifth one.
It's like, here's somebody with his flag in the Capitol.
And there's another person.
It's not even, none of this is like even about you.
And then number five is like Fuentes has been embraced and praised by a spectrum of far-right-wing fringe conservatives, providing him a larger platform for elevating the America First movement.
And it's kind of funny because they like, it's like America First Movement is this cancer society and this guy has some people like him.
And it's like, and then they use this.
This was their case against you.
And I read this and I went, holy crap.
Like their entire case about him is based off of jokes that he made that you thought were offensive, some comments he made that you didn't like, and the fact that he's fighting leftist culture and wants to preserve white identity, I guess, in some way and Christianity, which is like not very extreme ideas.
These are just like, it's just apolitical ideology.
It's one of many that are out there, right?
I mean, we have black supremacists out there mowing down people in Waukesha and on Twitter spaces talking about genociding white people.
I mean, people have a lot of extreme views.
And I didn't see anything like that in here.
No cause to violence.
No, Nicholas Fuentes has got a militia and he's, it's nothing.
There was no case that you were a terrorist, yet the government has and the tech companies have treated you like you are an abomination.
And I just want to know, how does that make you feel?
Well, it's, you know, it's very frustrating because I, you know, I mean, I love what I do and I tell the truth.
And honestly, this is the way, the only way that I can live, which is sort of authentically and unapologetically and everything.
But it is very difficult.
You know, and I did my show the other night and I thought to myself, you know, take a step back and think about the ridiculousness of like my present predicament.
Like I had to drive 14 hours here because I'm on a federal no-fly list, haven't committed a crime, haven't been charged with it.
I've never committed a crime ever in my life.
I've never been arrested.
I've never been in a fight.
I've never, you know, committed an act of violence, let alone been charged or anything.
But yet I find myself in this predicament where it's like, it's like John Wick, where I got guns pointed at my head from every angle.
It's big tech, it's the government, it's the left, it's the right.
And I guess I'm just sort of like living proof of like what America has become in a sense.
Like, I guess I'm the face then.
I got to be careful how I say this, but of like American terrorism.
Is this what an American terrorist looks like?
You know, somebody that goes on a live stream and like talks about politics.
Because you're right.
I mean, even within the things that they say about me on the ADL, and this is the worst they could come up with.
This is their top five reasons he should be banned from Twitter or whatever.
And it, like you said, it's what?
I'm friends with right-wing people.
I support largely mainstream right-wing goals.
And what?
I made an inappropriate joke is that I'm being lynched because I made a joke.
Like many other right-wing extremists, it doesn't say like you killed someone, or it says Fuentes often blankets his bigoted beliefs in sarcasm and ironic humor and uses cartoonish memes as just joking banter, all while with no evidence, all while spreading white supremacist propaganda.
And it's funny because it's like the accusation is that you are sarcastic and have ironic humor.
That's literally what I read.
And I was like, huh, this wouldn't work in court.
That's all I would say.
Like legally, none of this stuff would work and could be considered slander, but again, you're a public figure or you were.
I mean, you are, but I mean, they've tried to strip that from you and they've tried to take away your public identity so that you have no ability to defend yourself.
And that's what they want.
That it does strike me.
It's like, is this, ladies and gentlemen, is this an American terrorist?
Like, is because this is the war on terror 2.0.
Like, is that, is this what it is?
Because that freaks me out because like I don't, I looked, I tried, dude, to find that you were a terrorist.
Like, I really was like, did my research and I didn't find the evidence.
You know, I mean, unless you consider sarcasm terrorism.
I mean, that's, you're looking for like, you know, exploded cars or like bombs.
And it's like, well, he, he did say something ironic on his show.
He was sarcastic.
But yeah, that is exactly what this is.
And that is what they're gearing up for.
I mean, you brought it up earlier.
They are calling it 1.6, comparing it to 9-11.
They're making lots of comparisons to 9-11.
They're saying it's the worst thing since 9-11.
They're talking about doing a 9-11 style commission to investigate.
And I think that the point of that is to get a 9-11-style Patriot Act.
You know, the goal is to expand their jurisdiction for surveillance and for law enforcement powers.
That's what this is for.
And basically to criminalize the right wing.
Because you got to put it in context, which is to say that five years ago, what happened?
Trump wins the election in an upset against the wishes of all the powerful people.
They were all behind Clinton.
So he wins.
And people forget like the day after at Google headquarters, at Facebook headquarters, they were caught on a hot mic saying, we're going to make sure this never happens again.
And if you pay attention, like that's exactly what they did.
They undertook this five-year campaign for censorship to rig the next election.
And with this past election, you had they, you know, they censored people talking about election disinformation on social media.
You know, they geared up for the, I forget what they were calling it at the time, the red mirage or whatever.
They were sort of seeding the idea of that narrative.
And then they had the law enforcement powers lined up for the honeypot on the 6th.
And what they've done effectively is everything that put Trump in power, which we have to look at Trumpism is really like a challenge to the power structure.
It's a challenge to the American regime.
It was a big middle finger, not just to the Democrats, but to Washington, D.C., to the Pentagon, to the federal bureaucracy, the media, big tech, all of it.
And they said, we're going to put that down.
We're going to put Trump down with the election, and then we're going to put down the movement and the medium that brought the movement to fruition, which was social media and all these other things.
And so, you know, the aftermath of 2020, the past five years, 1.6 is going to be that effectively everything that brought Trump into power and created the movement to put him in power, they have made it impossible for something like that to happen again.
And that's all very deliberate.
So, yeah, the new war on terrorism is basically to prevent another Trump or to prevent Trumpism from maybe fully actualizing itself.
Of everything that people have tried to make you out to be in who they think that you are, and even some of your supporters, who they wish that you were.
Listen, you're never based enough, even you for certain people.
Well, I would say that I'm, I mean, I see myself really as like an opposition leader at this point.
I see myself as basically set against the regime.
You know, that's what it is.
I'm not your average pundit.
I'm not a regular politician.
I'm not interested in just, you know, doing a show and commentating on things.
I mean, I am a force.
I've thrown myself into the machine and I have allowed basically the response from that to speak for itself.
And so, you know, I guess my hope for the next 10 years, honest to God, I hope I'm alive because that is a real concern.
The CIA, the intelligence apparatus, they kill people.
You know, that happens all the time.
So, you know, I hope that I'm still alive.
I hope I'm still around.
But, you know, in 10 years, I hope that there is a real opposition.
I hope that Trumpism is able to ferment and develop and turn into something that's really going to challenge the power and not just fold back into the same kind of GOP garbage we've been fed for 30 years, controlled opposition, the one side of the same coin of the same stuff we've been getting, you know, since World War II.
So, you know, I'd like to see myself surviving and thriving off of the plantation, so to speak, off of the system independently, autonomously, and set against the regime because, you know, what they are is evil.
You know, never forget the people that are in charge, what they're doing is wrong.
We are on the right side of history.
This is not ambiguous.
It is black and white.
They are evil.
And we, though imperfect, are the side that is professing a faith in Jesus Christ.
We are the side that loves our country.
We are the side that supports perennial traditional values.
And, you know, ultimately, the only way that that's going to prevail is if somebody stands up boldly, you know, without the intrigue, without the gossipy, clever maneuvering kind of stuff, wink-wink, you know, the sort of incremental approach.
You know, always I wanted to sort of boldly step forward and say, I will not comply.
I will not go along with the system.
Whatever the consequence may be, I will let it happen.
And, you know, if worst happens, my reward will be in heaven.
But that's the kind of boldness that people are going to need if we want to see things turn around.
I always like it when people are not having to be a director.
Obviously, if you guys make it this far in the podcast, remember this is an audio-only podcast.
And as you know, I don't know if this podcast stayed on YouTube.
Like by the time you're hearing this, I don't know where you're watching this.
I don't know where you're seeing this.
But this is why there's other ways you have to support this show.
So number one, go to podcasts, go to Spotify.
For some reason, like it's just easier to keep, they don't get rid of the audio usually.
They usually don't.
They usually don't.
They do ban you, but not everyone.
So go there, leave a five-star review.
It's free.
It doesn't cost you anything.
And it helps us out so much.
And we are going to read a couple on the show, but also go to blazetv.com/slash Elijah right now to sign up and to join the family there and to support us.
Now, this is important because, like I said, like I hope this video doesn't get pulled.
But like if it does, we have platforms like Blaze TV.
He has his cozy TV, but I mean, like, this is literally where you can watch this.
And there's actually a whole Nick Foyent has interviews that you could catch up on that are actually on Blazetv.com as well that are not available on YouTube because YouTube had changed their policy previously for a while there.
You were very, it was a very problematic thing to have you on the channel.
All of the same, we have contacts in YouTube and they, you know, things have to get pulled, but they never, they never get pulled off Blaze TV.
So really sign up there and become a member.
I also remind you that we got merch at the Blaze shop promo code Offensive20 for 20% off.
He really wanted a Let's Go Brandon thing, but you can get that and a lot more merch for your family, for your friends.
Trust me, boomers love the Let's Go Brandon stuff.
Buy that for them.
Buy Slightly Offensive Merch.
We've got new Christ iconography stuff coming out for Slightly Offensive, but the old stuff's going to go within like two weeks.
So you got to get it now.
Offensive 20.
Let's read a couple of these reviews.
We got a review from Computer Human that says episode 207.
There is undoubtedly a spiritual war underway.
It's always underway, of course, but not obvious to most.
This podcast sees the war and courageously talks about it.
Very intense, very timely, and not to be passed by.
Very good.
Thank you so much.
We have one from Fan Roger.
She says, Congresswoman Green show.
Oh, you guys like the interview?
A lot of you guys love that interview.
She's a great person.
I've watched, listened to Elijah on many of the other Blaze podcasts over the last couple of years.
Your podcast with Congresswoman Green was the first of your podcasts I've listened to.
Great interview.
I'm now a subscriber.
Keep up the fight.
Fan, well, welcome.
It's better to join the fight now later than ever.
Anyway, like we mentioned at the beginning of the show, make sure that you sign up at the Christmas fund as well at givesendgo.com slash offensive to help you guys, whether you want to give money or you want to apply to get money.
Check it out.
As we always say, my name is Elijah Schaefer, the host of Slightly Offensive, the best worst show on Blaze TV, where you always get confetti of color.
And as someone who's not a fan of homosexuals, this is the closest that COC will probably end up in the face of Nick Fuentes.
You can check out his work, cozy.tv.
You can check out Savannah.
Sav says on YouTube, as well as the Rapid Fire podcast, leave her a review.
It's really great.
Have a great rest of the week and may God bless the United States of America.
