Walter Bosley argues that the NYMZA mystery airship file reveals suppressed human aerospace technology rooted in 1849 Rankine turbines and German Nimza programs, not crashed saucers. He links Peter Menes' fake death to military coercion, connects Tesla's Mars flight to gravito-electromagnetic theories, and claims NASA moon landings masked 1960s Air Force Mars missions. Bosley contends Reagan's UFO disclosures were censored by Colin Powell to hide a universal threat, while Roswell and JFK assassination ties to the Foster Ranch suggest interdimensional encounters or classified spaceflight mishaps manipulated by Operation Paperclip scientists to secure funding through fear narratives. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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The Mysterious Motor Zephyr Acronym00:15:05
Thank you.
Walter, it's great to have you back with us.
Good to be here, Daniel.
I know we had a wild ride getting you on, but we're doing good now.
Yeah.
Wow.
Technology, you know how it goes.
It's that burnout in California that's going on.
The technology is even increasingly having a mind of its own, right?
I wanted to, there's so many things I want to dive into today with you, but one of the things that you do.
With your books, is when you go into the UFO file because you come into it from a totally different area, let's say, than most researchers do.
You've got this background that takes us into an early group, and you go further and further back with the UFO file, and that gives you kind of a bigger palette or different palette to work with, so that we're not always at the you know, UFOs crash landed, we redeveloped it, there's a push and pull.
You've got something else.
Giving us that richer history.
Give me a little bit of where the airship mystery has its kind of solid foundations, and then we'll go into the mysterious group, Nimza, that you've identified so well at being at the heart of the airship mystery.
Well, what my research has shown me is that there is actually, and again, this is my perspective and opinion based on the research that I've done and presented, there seems to me to be.
A lot more evidence that what I've studied, the threat of the airship mystery and how it leads into the 20th century technology, there seems to be a lot more evidence for the human development thread of this than there is the argument that it was all the result of back engineering a crashed saucer from somewhere else.
And I never say that, well, I don't think I've ever said that, you know, that's impossible.
There could never have been a crashed saucer.
Of course, there could, because.
I'm still very much a confident, staunch believer that extraterrestrials have come here, and I think they continue to come here and they've been here.
But I just see where going back to, and I've traced it back to, as far as evidence is concerned, 1849 with McCorn Rankin and the Rankin turban, because it is identical to what Del Show was drawing in his schematics between 1893 and 1923.
As the essential turbine, the process of how the engine worked, the mapping of the engine in the Sonora Aero Club, arrows, those flying machines, which he dates to the 1850s, right after Rankine published this turbine.
Now, when you're looking at that, the Rankine turbine is historical, it's documented.
You can look that up and you can see it.
That's pretty hard to argue with when.
You can link it to this mysterious Sonora Aero Club, right?
Which then I've linked to the 1890s airship mystery, which in turn I've linked via Germans to modern 20th century esoteric or advanced aerospace research.
The connecting link between the 1850s and the 1890s being this idea that the first black technology program.
That I think we can point to is the possible post Civil War era development of the Solomon Andrews Aaron technology.
So, all that, as Joseph Farrell likes to say, I went around Harvey's barn to answer your question.
You know, those are the basic hit points of what I found that is much more, in my opinion, likely to have led to the bell and.
Again, you know where I'm coming from on Roswell.
I suggest that this suggests that Roswell was a product of this thread of technology, not an ET craft.
So that's where I'm at on that.
Interesting.
A little later into today's show, I'm going to throw some new Roswell info at you to get your live response unexpurgated.
Cool.
And that's because Roswell does figure into it as a kind of an interesting, if you go back.
If you're looking at the Sonora Aero Club and the arrows and the Del Shell work, and then you get to Roswell, it's almost like the awakening takes place there for sure, which is now everyone knows for a little while in that little wave of the 1947 Kenneth Arnold, Maury Island, Roswell period.
Suddenly everyone's on board that there's something else operating.
Yeah.
And I do think that's significant.
Keeping it in the 19th century for now, it is interesting because the Civil War would give you an opportunity.
For example, to look at different types of armaments, and you would tap into technology that was under development, experimental, undercover.
One of the things that you did in your book is you talked about Del Shao's kind of day to day interactions with the Sonora Aero Club and how what he was saying was that they were keeping these ships and airship motors and developments things in the households in this area, and that that's the way they kind of hid it in the meantime.
So everyone wasn't tapping in to what they were doing.
Specifically, the barns, yeah, the Italian farmers.
That kind of network intrigues me because later, of course, it's adopted on a wide scale.
How far do you think the Sonora Era Club got?
I think that what they seem to have, I don't want to say perfect, what they seem to have developed successfully was the proof of concept of.
The bell, for one thing, because we have in Del Xiao's schematics, we have, um, and he did this prior to 1923.
Uh, we have a depiction of a rudimentary version of the bell.
I mean, it's bell shaped, it's got all the elements the central axis, the rotation.
And Del Xiao says that this combined with the Rankine turbine, um, This bell device with the ranking turbine is what provided them with the lift, right?
That's what we like to call anti gravity because these were not balloons that the Sonora Aero Club was building.
So I think what they did was they successfully managed to apply the ranking turbine to, for lack of a better term, this anti gravity propulsion.
And we see.
In the witness reports of the 1893 airship mystery, we see the same rotation.
What they added by the 1890s was the resonance and the vibration, you know, the tapping of the little flanges or devices that activated.
You know, this is the era of the Tillman, you know, reports of his connection to the 1893 airship.
So I do think that that's what they accomplished.
They accomplished the successful proof of concept.
Of whatever it was these 19th century airships were using.
And, you know, by the time they stopped, which we're told that Peter Menes, the leader of the Sonora Aero Club, died in this crash.
But there's reason to believe that he did not because my associate, Malia Grimm, and another individual found a Peter Menes grave site.
Which may very well be our mysterious German immigrant, Peter Menes, who died years later.
He was a soldier in, oh, I forget which unit he was in.
So, you know, and that was probably, he probably did the fake his death thing because the pressure from the mysterious Nimza, you know, the Del Show talks about this Prussian officer who was sent from the headquarters in Germany, you know, to, to, Pitched to them Nimza's desires for them to build these arrows for war, for military purposes, and the club did not want to do that.
So, gee, shortly after that, Peter Menace dies in an explosion.
That is a really interesting part of the whole story.
Give me the root of the name Nimza.
You've done all kinds of interesting things with that name, and a lot of people have tried to deconstruct it.
But you've attached it in some ways through almost occult means.
This whole undersea, you know, almost like mythology or stories or legends, Awanus and things of this nature, and brought it all the way up to this group in the 1850s that's working and sending Del Xiao over.
Would you, I mean, we could almost call him a spy in a sense.
You could, or at least, you know, the intel collections officer, right?
Liaison officer, really, is what you could call him.
Well, we first hear of Nimza, this word Nimza, through Del Xiao himself.
Through his own writings.
And he's the one who tells us that NIMSA is this German based organization that was kind of the, I guess you'd say, a sponsor of various little groups.
He says there's more than one group in the U.S. alone, but he focuses on the group he was sent to report on, and that is the Sonora Aero Club in Sonora, California.
Now, he says that they were a German based group.
In the past, other researchers have tried to.
You know, deconstruct the NYMZA spelling of Nimza that Del Show provides us.
And they say, well, you know, in the 1890s, there was a New York investor into these airships.
So the NY must mean Nimza.
Well, according to Del Show, our original source, no, it's not New York based, it's German based.
So I went on what Del Show himself says about it.
But, um, Here's what's wild you talk about hieroglyphs, and we were talking about hieroglyphs earlier before the show.
We all know that Egyptian hieroglyphs, for example, have multiple levels of meaning.
There is the overt meaning that the particular symbol represents.
But then there's also these other deeper levels and side meanings.
And you can use one hieroglyph to mean multiple things.
And what I found fascinating, and I still can't completely explain it, is my good friend and associate Sesh Harri has done an astounding breakdown of Nimza.
And he shows where.
He can trace it back to ancient times, you know, through Egyptian language in particular.
So you have this word that Del Shall uses and encodes in his paintings with symbols that look like a D or shovel head and these mathematical symbols, which in turn Joseph Farrell has provided an analysis.
That shows that the symbol for the acronym NIMSA, because NIMSA appears to be an acronym, because Del Show shows it in all capital letters, it also looks like an equation that relates to propulsion.
So, this NIMSA word that Del Show introduces us all to, it in itself appears to be a hieroglyph.
So, Seshari has laid out, you know, How it traces back to these nameless ones that predate human civilization and they came to our world.
And Del Shal, with what he provides with this alternate symbolic representation of the word Nimza, Joseph Farrell has shown us that, okay, this could be an equation for some type of energy propulsion, you know, or what have you.
And then there's what I've Presented that NIMSA is an acronym for this then Prussia, what we know today as Germany, this actual program office that was over there in Germany in, you know, who knows when they started as such, but in the 1850s, being the sponsor for this weird technology development.
So you have this, there's three different levels of meaning right there for this.
And I, of course, have attempted to present a A translation in German of what it might mean that causes some people.
I mean, oh my gosh, it just, you know, makes some people go nuts because no, no, that's not right or this isn't right.
And, you know, they're splitting hairs.
My purpose for releasing the German translation of what NIMSA means was to just demonstrate how it very well, you know, could be this German acronym, this acronym for German words, but it is not a New York based.
You know, Motor Zephyr Association thing, if you really dig in and look at it closely.
Decoding the Demonel Paintings00:12:02
Kind of fascinating.
You know, what struck me about the interpretation of the name from the German organization that you did was the reconnaissance aspect.
Because to me, that's really its first best use, which is if no one else is up there and you are able to fly over, you have a tremendous advantage across the board.
I mean, you know, satellites and everything that you get later are all about exploiting that.
But back then, you know, if you've got nobody else up there, reconnaissance is a huge advantage.
Oh, absolutely.
And I find it interesting that we know that balloons were used in the U.S. Civil War, for example, our Civil War.
And a gentleman by the name of O.H. Bailey, Oakley Hooped Bailey, who was a Civil War veteran himself, he developed around the time of the war after, it was after.
He started a map company, okay, as a cartographer.
There are shades and suggestions of Tillman right there, who himself was a cartographer, among other things, a chemist and such for the U.S. Army.
But O.H. Bailey is the man who is credited with creating the bird's eye view maps that emerged after the Civil War.
And that's the maps that are, you know, people have seen those tourist destinations, you know, for several years.
Presented the bird's eye view map of their town, their city, or what have you.
And you can see that it's at a certain level, which, yes, they were certainly done with balloons, you know.
And it is literally the bird's eye view because you see it in the receding vista, you know, the POV.
It's not directly overhead.
But here you have, at the end of the Civil War, this emerging.
And I see that as the precursor to today's Google Earth, to today's satellite images, you know, like you said.
So I think that it was definitely during the Civil War that the importance of this emerged and the light went on, so to speak, in the minds of these organizations whose charter it was to, you know, to do the recon, to know the intelligence.
So I just find that to be an interesting little coincidence that this emerged at the time that.
This airship stuff, you know, was being.
And this is also a fragment of a forgotten history of technological development that we wouldn't even have except for the fluke of Del Show's drawings being discovered in the 1960s?
Yeah, 1971, I believe, was when I recall when Pete Navarro found them in Fred Washington's junk shop there in Houston.
I think it was in Houston.
And they were in the trash.
They actually had been thrown in the trash, and Fred Washington dug them out of the trash because the place that Del Show had lived for many years, he passed away.
It ended up being in a family member's hands and then somebody else.
And they found these things in the attic.
And I mean, I don't know if I would have found something like that in an attic, I wouldn't have thought, oh, throw them in the trash.
But people are people.
So they threw them in the trash.
Fred Washington dug them out.
And he had them sitting around at his shop.
And in 1971, Pete Navarro discovered them.
He bought as many as he could afford.
But what was interesting, and I know you know this and will find this interesting, is somewhere around that time, the Demonels, if I'm pronouncing that right, got their hands on them.
Yeah.
And they eventually were in one of their museum exhibits.
You know, aviation.
This is so fascinating because Jim Garrison famously investigated the Demon Hills and Schlumberger, De Mornschild, that whole piece as part of the JFK assassination.
And here they are, as these kind of humanitarians and art people, getting involved with putting these airship drawings of Del Shouse out to the public and giving them the kind of official stamp of approval.
I mean, that's quite unique.
Oh, of course, of course.
And here's the interesting thing I myself have done a critical eye view analysis of the bell lore.
I did a video of that, it's on my channel, and I point out the problems with the story about the bell.
However, Del Show, I talked about this image of the bell, and clearly that's what it is.
If you know anything about the bell, it's like a proof of concept.
And he drew this, okay, and connected this with the Sonora Aero Club before he died in 1923, okay?
And this is, you know, what, a decade before we're told that the Nazi scientists started, engineers started messing with the concept of the bell.
However, his stuff was hidden away, it was never made public until after Pete Navarro discovered it.
In 1971.
Okay.
And the world didn't really know about Del Show stuff, his artwork, and these images until I want to say really, it didn't really emerge widespread until the late 1990s and, you know, into the 2000s.
So, unless, you know, if the bell is made up of whole cloth, the person who made it up had to have had access to Del Show's artwork, right?
You could say.
Bell as a prototype, if somebody were just inventing it, you already have Del Xiao making paintings of it back there in the 19th century.
Yeah, before the Germans were even supposedly working on it.
And so either the person who made up the Bell story out of whole cloth saw Del Xiao stuff and, you know, kept it secret, never said anything about seeing this, you know, or it's a true story.
It really was a rudimentary version of the Bell.
And there you have the.
The initial German thread leading to the Nazi Germany development of this technology.
So, I find that to be an interesting aspect of when you ask, you know, when was Dell Shell stuff discovered?
Because there it laid for 48 years in an attic, okay, and missed all of World War II, all the post World War II immediate era.
So, To my mind, that says there's definitely something to the Bell story because of what Del Show drew.
What was left behind there that they were going to trash and that made it to the antique store?
We're talking about this incredible amount of paintings that he did of these various advanced arrows that the Sonora Aero Club was working on in the 1850s.
Yeah.
And also his diaries.
Yes.
And they are enigmatic as if.
You know, this idea of him being an intel operative, et cetera, it seems to be a lot of it from the paintings to the diaries are coded in some fashion.
Yes.
I do not have permission to show them.
And I've had them for years.
And I can say that I've, let's say, I'll say I've seen them.
I've got them copies of his actual personal diaries.
And I was asked, please don't publish these.
Please don't show them publicly.
It's really interesting.
It's got more of that weird Del Shal symbolism and hieroglyphs.
But there were several.
Volumes and he even made these books.
They were handmade.
They're like he would take whatever the covers, the cardboard or whatever wood or whatever they're made out of, and he would use yarn and string to sew together these books of just countless painting, colorful schematics.
You've seen them, everybody's seen them of what he claimed the Sonora Aero Club had designed, built, and flown, and also what they had designed to build.
And wow, it's just astonishing when you look at it from a 21st century perspective.
You realize this was a technology that we never imagined anybody was fooling with or even thought of in the 1850s.
But wow, there it is.
And this wipes out a lot of the Kitty Hawk, Wright Brothers lore.
Hey, we know how to fly now.
I mean, because they're operating, they're 50 years earlier.
Oh, yeah.
They're, you know, Kitty Hawk happened in 1903, as we know.
And here the Sonora Aero Club is messing with, again, for lack of a better, you know, context for people to grasp immediately, you know, anti gravity technology.
You know, what's up with that?
People would say.
Now, that's one of the reasons why there are people out there that merely dismiss Dell Shao as an insider artist.
Oh, it was just his imagination.
He's an insider artist.
You people are making, you know, Too much out of this, and that doesn't hold up when you even take you know 15 minutes, 30 minutes to really dig into the things that that you know I and several people before me you know, there were there was Pete Navarro, there was uh Theo Pymans, Dennis Crenshaw, um, uh, Tim Schwartz.
You know, there were there was a good research base, yeah, yeah, that had that had talked about and presented the Del Show Sonora Aero Club story, plus looked into Nimsa.
Before I was, you know, turned on to it.
And, you know, we all stand on each other's shoulders there.
I stand on theirs definitely.
So when you have that many researchers looking at something that close who come away, you know, saying, no, this guy was not just an insider artist, to me, the people that are saying that, that's just lazy lack of research.
It just doesn't interest them, it doesn't capture their imagination enough, really.
But, you know, and then when you add, Like how far you've taken the ball down the field just by looking at Tillman alone, and then with the other things, and you know, it begins to add up, build up that these books, you know, you almost wonder now, I wonder is the story about them being thrown in the trash true?
Was it time for these to emerge, and maybe were they presented to Fred Washington, or was Fred Washington actually tipped off?
Why Keeley Was Smear Campaigned00:08:27
Go here, look there, get those.
Interesting.
I wonder now because it's astonishing.
Oh, that's fascinating.
Yeah, because we have, you know, on a number of different kinds of paintings and things, are these groups who are like, you know, theosophical groups, anthroposophical groups, who are like, we need to hold on to this information for 100 years.
You know, we'll put the information out later.
And the.
Well, am I correct that Clara Bloomfield Moore even mentions the Nimza word?
Yes, yes.
And that's interesting too, because she's at the heart of the Keely Strader device.
You know, she's supporting Tesla and Keely.
So that's someone right in the heart of it.
And she goes from Philadelphia to London, which, you know, Theosophical Society over in London, here in Philadelphia, supporting Keely.
Keely dies, she goes to London.
Keely's technology goes over.
I wanted to mention Keely here and your thoughts on this, because.
Keeley's also operating, John Worrell Keeley in the late 19th century.
He's operating with the Keeley motor, and there are some estimations now.
There's stories that what he could do in terms of making things levitate and all the rest of it, that he was far, far beyond anything that we could imagine in that period.
There's a whole chapter dedicated to Keeley in Blavatsky's work.
Steiner says, well, he's working with the psychic etheric energy, and so if, you know, Corporations get their hands on it, we're going to have big problems.
All this kind of stuff, like society's not ready for what Keeley is doing.
What is your kind of summary thought on Keeley?
Especially, we're coming out of this Sonora Aero Club work from the 1850s and 60s, and here's Keeley in the late 1870s coming forward with the motor.
Yes, I see Keeley.
First, you had the Sonora Aero Club and Peter Menace, then you had Solomon Andrews, who brought The technology to Abraham Lincoln and that, I think, led to the U.S. War Department's secret development of this airship technology, which starting in 1865 or six, then is after 30 years of development, we have the 1890s airship mystery.
And the big.
You call it a black project.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it was America's first black technology project that brought together the.
Contractor, industrialist working with the War Department to what we know in the 20th century as these secret aerospace development projects.
It's the same thing, but the 1865 version.
And I think the big screaming thread in that is Samuel Tillman.
You know that.
I think that.
And the evidence is there.
So then you have Keeley emerges, right, in the late 19th century.
I think.
Keeley, when you read the criticisms of him in his lifetime in the day, I think that was just a smear campaign.
He, by people who did not want his knowledge, okay, and his accomplishments to get out, it was just a smear campaign.
They had to, you know, those reporters who witnessed the stuff and said, oh, it was all fake, this, that, and the other, I think it was just part of a smear campaign.
Unfortunately, it could have been part of a smear campaign.
That was ordered by this U.S. secret airship program.
Whoever ordered it, I think that's what it was.
And yeah, I think Keeley never publicly revealed the extent of his achievements.
You know, why is Blavatsky and Steiner going to bat with their reputation levels, with what they're doing with their groups, for Keeley over there in America?
You know, that always struck me as a very interesting piece because he's basically saying, I'm using a theoronic.
Energy, you know, and I am using it's like kind of like a psychic force energy to motivate the technology.
And they obviously know they're trying to stand up and say, Yeah, he's right, but the world's not ready for it, right?
And that might have something to do with when I worked on the Ingersoll Lockwood book with Todd Wood, he had done incredible research.
And so we teamed up and we did that.
I realized Todd and I agreed that.
In our opinion, we were supposed to have a different 20th century than we got, right?
And it was Shanghai'd in the 1890s going into the early 1900s.
So I think that Blavatsky and Steiner and others who were initially publicly touting Keeley and his accomplishments, this was around the time or right before that it was decided no, no, there are certain things we're not going to allow.
Civilization or the public, you know, the known civilization that we have.
We're not going to allow them to have this.
We want the 20th century to go along a certain path, and that means the combustion engine, you know, oil.
That means the airplane.
So I think that contributed to why the Wright brothers and the airplane was favored.
Let's also be honest the airplane is a very Practical machine.
The reason we followed their model is because, quite frankly, it works.
It's practical.
Same reason, you know, the combustion engine works.
It's practical.
And you know how corporate powers are.
If it works, it's practical and people are willing to pay, that's what the public is going to be given.
While the real esoteric stuff, well, that's reserved, you know, for special applications, special uses.
And I think that's what happened to Keeley.
It was unfortunate.
Um, that he emerged at the wrong time, um, because our future was being shanghaied, in my opinion.
Oh, absolutely.
And it's interesting in your own work.
Um, if you look at the developmental curve from your origins book about the development of a breakaway civilization, breakaway tech, and I think later you use the term breakaway group, which makes more sense in the grand scheme.
Civilization is too big of a word, absolutely.
I agree.
That's a broad stroke.
It's a good metaphor.
But when you get really to the technology part, what you're talking about is it really is a group, just like NIMS is a group as opposed to a civilization.
So that's quite fascinating.
But in any sense, certainly the breakaway civilization term does a number of wonderful things.
But I think group is more precise somehow.
It brings it down to something that's manageable and graspable.
By the public, when you're talking about this, you know, the problem with the use of the civilization term is people tend to go to the extreme.
You know, they say, oh, if it's a civilization, then they have all these secret bases on the moon and all this wild and grandiose infrastructure, which, no, if they did, we would see signs of that.
And quite frankly, we're not, we don't see signs of that.
But we have plenty of reason to.
Explaining Mars Before Apollo00:14:49
Suspect that there are little individual groups that are developing this advanced technology for whatever purpose, either for a client or for themselves.
Oh, interesting.
Yes, a client.
That brings me to one of your wildest theories, I think, which is the 1903 piece.
So just bring that on board as wild as it sounds, there's something to it because.
Of Tesla, there's something to it because of this idea of some version of spaceflight before we get to NASA and all of this.
And even if it's taking place in a different realm, whatever it happens to be, or some kind of nuts and bolts version of it, what is it?
Well, it didn't originate with me.
I first read about it in the book.
Oh boy, it's a Tesla book.
I always get the title messed up, but Did We Go to Mars in 1903 is the title of it.
And it's a book that Tim Schwartz did a lot of the work on.
And in talking with him, when I dug around into this thing about this story, I found that it came to him from Jim Keith, which is interesting.
The late Jim Keith, the conspiracy researcher.
But basically, the basic story, of course, is that this group, this private group, came to Nikola Tesla in 1903, the same year as Kitty Hawk, remember?
And they asked him or commissioned him to design a Tesla airship that they could fly to Mars.
This is the legend.
And you're thinking, oh, 1903, okay, even if Tesla did build the airship and they did get in this thing, They didn't make it maybe past the Van Allen belts, you know, before they burned up and died or whatever.
Maybe they're floating.
Maybe that explains that's a whole other conversation, but maybe that explains what the actual Black Knight object is this 1903 airship with these dead bodies.
But that's a whole other conversation.
Now, it's easy to say, okay, that's a wild conspiracy theory, weird idea.
But then you learn this is what happened with me.
I learned about Oliver Heaviside.
Now, before, let me continue the thread on where this came from.
I'm told that Jim Keith told my best recollection, he told Tim Schwartz about it.
But Keith claimed that some unidentified person sent him an email claiming that this was true.
And he shared it, and people started pulling threads, and they look at Tesla receiving.
These weird signals from space.
And there's an interesting theory from a gentleman named John Batista, who was at the 2014 and 2015 Secret Space Program conferences, by the way.
And he said to Joseph Farrell and I once, he said, Well, what if the signals that Tesla was actually picking up was the 1903 airship from space, or maybe they had reached Mars successfully?
And wow, that's interesting.
So you're thinking, okay, this is ridiculous.
It's 1903.
How are they going to survive?
That brings us back to Oliver Heaviside.
So I'm looking into this and I stumble upon Oliver Heaviside, who in 1893 developed his gem.
GEM, Gravito Electromagnetics.
And in a nutshell, according to Heaviside, in 1893, with the sufficient technology developed, what you'd have to do is what you could do is create this gravito electromagnetic force field around an object, which then you could have life support sustained inside that force field.
And I thought, Wait a minute now.
What if Tesla designed this airship and applied gem to the airship, and that's how they could stay alive in this thing?
You know, so that's the extent to which I've taken it and presented it.
It's still on the food for thought level, but it kind of brings that 1903 airship to Mars story a little bit more into something that could be considered, I think.
And then You know, when you look at what's really on Mars, what might someone find on Mars if they went there as far as ruins and relics?
You know, you have to wonder if they made it, what did they find?
You know, now 122 years ago, it's wow.
It just kind of leaves you speechless because where you got to go from there is a level of speculation that a lot of people don't want to hear.
Um, That whole thing about that Hoagland came out with about Cydonia and the complex there and the face on Mars and all those types of things, how do you rate that yourself in your own work?
Well, I think that there was, I think there's been an intelligent civilization on Mars, on the surface of Mars in the past.
They might still be there under the surface.
But I'm in the school of thought that thinks that when NASA shows us the live feeds, the feeds of the landers, and we see things that look manufactured.
I think we're seeing things that were manufactured.
I think we're seeing statuary and machinery that was destroyed in some type of cataclysm.
And I think that this is kind of a silent passive disclosure, if you will, that through NASA that they're giving us by not addressing this so that down the road they can say, when they do reveal that there was a civilization on Mars a long time ago that got destroyed, they can have culpable deniability.
They can say, well, we didn't hide it from you.
You've been able to see our live feeds all these years and decades, and there's the relics.
So, I think that's the little game that's being played with that.
So, that's what I think about Mars.
I think a lot of us, if not all of us, by now have DNA of the Martian humans that came here when their cataclysm was happening.
That's what I think.
I think a bunch of them came here.
Maybe that explains the emergence of Cro Magnon Man.
Something like that.
I don't know.
Hereditary memory of Mars gives us all this Mars mythology.
And why is it that, you know, even with Elon Musk, it's such a fascination, right?
Yeah.
But I have to pin you down on one thing.
It's very interesting that I've heard you say.
And I actually am inclined to believe it, but I don't know.
I want to hear you really explain it, which is you've said boots on the ground in Mars.
Yeah.
I think we've had it.
We've already landed on Mars.
I think so.
Yeah.
I think we've, my gosh, I think we've tried it at least once.
I mean, I think we've tried it at least once.
I have a view.
Of my view of the secret space program, as you know, is in that much more down to earth research based than unfortunately what took our community by storm in 2015 with all the fantasies and lies of Corey.
Oh, yeah.
It was the actual research.
I think that we've had a classified manned space program since the 1950s.
Okay, with technology pretty much parallel to what we saw NASA doing.
Now, remember, the U.S. Air Force, they had the space program, the manned space program development through the 50s.
They're the ones who already had created and was engineering and developed Mercury.
Okay, when in late 1958, October of 1958, NASA is stood up and we're told the Air Force is handing Mercury over to NASA.
Now our manned space program.
Program will be entirely administered by NASA, which no, I think what happened was the public program went to NASA.
And I see no reason to assume that the Air Force did not continue it.
Because as you see, the Army and the other Air Force documents that we've seen emerge for the Horizon program and these moon bases and stuff, that right there is the smoking gun that while the citizens were watching NASA and the Mercury program, the Air Force was continuing with its own parallel program.
And so, therefore, because I think that, I think, of course, that's where I get the idea that we tried it at least once.
And because it would have been done by a classified program, it remains classified to this day.
Maybe for the obvious reasons, you know, the high ground reasons, you know, he who lands, you know, on the other planet first is the more powerful, kind of like what landing on the moon represented.
But now that we have.
Space Force, okay.
I think that classified space program, you know, if we've had it, if I'm right, I think it just has been folded into the classified division of Space Force.
I think Space Force inherited whatever they've accomplished in the classified manned space program.
And I would venture to say that if you're in Space Force or you join Space Force, you could end up.
On one of these classified deployments in the coming decades.
But I kind of veered off what the question was.
Yes, I do think that after Apollo and we kept developing the technology and whatever we developed in secret, I think they definitely tried a boots on the ground landing.
And there's just as much reason to think it was successful as to shoot it down and say it wasn't successful.
Well, that's very interesting.
Gordon Cooper agrees with you.
Oh, the late Gordon Cooper.
Yeah.
I was reading, I've read a lot that he's put out there, but his autobiography is particularly intriguing.
There's one little piece in there where he says, about 1968, you know, Von Braun tapped me on the shoulder and said, Get fit, you're going to Mars, you're going to lead it.
And a little while later, he says, Don't mention it, don't talk about it.
You know, I'm not going to go any further in telling you about it.
And then he, in his own autobiography later, he's stunned.
But it's not going to happen because the moon Mars piece was together.
It was worked out together as a schematic.
And I found that interesting in going back into the Kennedy space program.
It's all moon Mars.
It's moon Mars.
Yeah, as if the public was seeing, as if the moon part was for the public show, but what was done secretly was they kept on going to Mars.
Yes.
That's intriguing.
That's very intriguing.
I like that.
So, when you said Boots on Mars, you know, I mean, there's a lot of theoreticians and people have great ideas, but you come out of this milieu.
You were in the Air Force Office of Special Investigations.
You know how the deeper programs work, and you also know how the disinformation layers on top keep people away from the real thing.
So, when you said that, I said, you know, that when I crisscrossed that with Cooper, I was like, this really makes sense.
And he found out later, he writes, in the that when he was hearing about in the 1970s, That their goal was to land on Mars by 1980.
That sounds right on.
Yeah, I think that resonates with, at least how I see it.
We do our dog and pony show on the moon in 1969.
I also think that we put astronauts on the moon before Apollo 11 to make sure we could do it.
Oh.
Each time is dangerous.
I'm not taking anything away from the Apollo 11.
Crew, but you know, I tell people, hey, I'm sorry, the way our military works, the way these things work, this is going to be in front of the whole world.
They're going to want to make sure it can be done safely, put them there, bring them back before they go doing this.
I mean, doing it for the first time in front of the world, I don't buy that.
I just don't buy that.
And when you think about the stories of how, I mean, Armstrong was real shy about it, you know, afterwards, he didn't, I mean, come on, if you're the first human to step foot on the moon.
I don't care how aw shucks you are, you're gonna go and appear every year on the anniversary.
Oh gosh, oh shucks, I'm the first.
I think, from my perspective, it's very possible that, of course, knowing that he wasn't really the first, he was an honest man.
This is a man of ethics and honor.
And so maybe in his view, it's like, okay, I'll play your game.
And I really did it, by gosh.
We did the dangerous thing, highly dangerous.
But, you know, hey, we weren't the first, but we'll pretend that we were.
I think that kind of is explained by, you know, his kind of ah shucks demeanor.
So, yeah, in 1980, that would make sense to me that 11 years later, you know, we developed it enough to take it to Mars.
A Cover Story for Interdimensionals00:15:06
You've made a critical observation about the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster in '86, which I think we can really track the whole space program.
If we think of it as two tracks, JFK's track, let's do it for humanity, let's have this be, we'll hold hands with the Russians and do this, and we'll have a non-militarized space and things of this nature, versus the other thing,
the kind of paperclip version of NASA and the darker influences, which you've done quite a job tapping NIMSA out all the way into that paperclip aspect and into the space program, which I think is a remarkable thing.
Of charting that over 100 years.
But the emphasis there on the Challenger, I think, is interesting because that is the end of Kennedy's manned program.
It really is.
And what a spectacular demise.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a symbolic.
I even go so far to suggest that it was sabotaged for that purpose because, you know, the 60s and 70s had their difficulties for the American public between ourselves and in our society.
But we always had that space program to be proud of.
We always had that thing to bring us together.
And if somebody wanted to really strike at our heart, you know, it was the first time we watched the just spectacular catastrophe of our.
I mean, you know, during my lifetime, yeah, there was the Apollo in which we lost Grissom, White, and Chafee.
Yeah.
But we had never, we hadn't lost astronauts since then, right?
And to see that happen.
It was, yeah, it was a blow to what JFK had, you know, set forth.
So, you know, there is the possibility that, you know, it was a sabotage for that or for whatever purpose.
Very interesting.
In the era, you have Star Wars happening.
And later, we had a number of figures come out and say, oh, Star Wars wasn't to deflect missiles, it was for.
This dual purpose thing of mapping UFO, the UFO file aspect, these UFO incursions, as it were.
And the technology that was suggested basically gets us into very interesting territory.
Recently, Trump came forward and said, I have $200 billion funding for the Golden Dome.
The Golden Dome is going to operate in space and cover the U.S. so that these hypersonic missiles can't get at it, et cetera.
And he said, you know, this is exactly what Reagan wanted to do, but we can really do it now.
Of course, the technology never went away.
What do you think of that?
What's the parallel there with Reagan and the things that he said regarding the UFO threat and what he, you know, Gorbachev went on the record famously in 2013 with Charlie Rose and said, you know, he pulled me aside and said, let's get into, you know, this whole thing about the UFO file.
If they attack us, are you with us or not?
So he was obviously sharing that high level interaction there.
Take me from.
Star Wars 1 to Golden Dawn, which is basically Star Wars 2.
Where's the developmental arc and how much of it has to do with the UFO file?
Oh, I think it has primarily everything to do with the UFO file.
I don't think that Reagan was using that metaphorically.
I think when he spoke to Gorbachev about that, I think there's been some type of known threat from space, another world, not just some other country with its stuff up there.
I think there is a threat from some intelligent civilization on another world.
I think that the Golden Dome is Star Wars version 2, or by now, maybe version 10.
Who knows?
But I think it's just an advancement of what was being developed back then.
The idea that everybody out there is peaceful just because they might have developed interstellar travel.
That just boggles my mind that people think that.
I think that we're going to encounter peaceful civilizations.
I think we're going to encounter belligerent civilizations that are conquest minded, that they're going to mean us harm.
I think that one of those has been known about to some degree for a long time.
It might have been something we learned during the classic.
Mid 20th century era of UFO encounters and things.
The downside, I mean, that's kind of a down thing to begin with.
I mean, how do you tell the people of your world that there's a civilization that as soon as they arrive, they could obliterate us?
You know, we're not eternal, we're not immortal, they could take us like that.
That's not a very good thing.
But what makes this scenario Worse is that since World War II, our intelligence and defense community has unfortunately been influenced and has taken a lot from the guys we allegedly defeated in World War II with how they do things and how they project and treat the public.
And there is, I like to compare it to terrorism.
There are terrorists, right?
We know this.
There are terrorists in the world, there is a terrorist threat.
But we all know that since 9 11, that was exaggerated, and we were told lies about what the threat was.
And oh, we got to do this and we got to do that.
They used a real threat in a whole web of lies to get greater control over us.
And I think that's what they're trying to do right now with a real potential threat that's out in space.
They're using the threat narrative.
And it's not just for pure interest in protecting us from the evil aliens that are going to come get us.
It's so that they can put in their apparatus and their means of controlling us greater.
So it's kind of a double edged sword.
Yes, I think there is a legitimate threat out in space they're aware of, but the heinous, evil part of how that's going to be presented, and I think how they're trying to present it, is to use that threat the way they use the terrorist threat to keep us in a constant state of.
Fear and agitation, so that we're easier to control.
So that's where I think the ET threat narrative comes in and how it's being used.
I agree that the threat narrative is mostly a contrivance, but that doesn't mean that there's not a threat from space, which I think Reagan knew full well at the time he spoke with Gorbachev.
Yeah, he had, well, he had access to that intel.
They may have been even kind of.
Influencing him in this way.
And very famously, there's an autobiography that Colin Powell does where he talks about how often Reagan would put these references to the UFOs in his speeches and how he used to take them out, and that he was so ticked off at himself that he didn't get the one for the UN speech and at a Maryland high school that Reagan was letting this out.
So he was running around, you know, with whiteout trying to get this out of Reagan's speeches.
That tells you that, you know, Reagan is there.
He survived an assassination attempt.
He's elderly, you know, and he's also.
This incredible, you know, collapse of the Cold War and things of this nature.
I mean, he is looking out to humanity and saying, I'm the guy, you know, he knows enough about Americana in a sense to be like, we can present this to the public and warn them about, you know, a universal threat or whatever, and that'll bring us all together.
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, and just not to paint it all doom and gloom, I think equally, I think we have friends out there too.
I think we've developed connections and allies.
So I really do think that.
When it happens, and I do think it's inevitable, when we do face a foe from the stars, I do think that we have allies out there who will come to our aid.
And wow, if they haven't disclosed this to the people of Earth, if our own leaders haven't disclosed it by now, by then it'll be obvious.
It'll be, hey, here we are and you need our help.
So I think Reagan.
Yeah, people would.
There are people that say, well, he was an old guy and it was just, you know, he was going crazy.
No, no, I think this was real information.
It was true.
And maybe his years were making him want to be not loose with it, but more open to, like you say, you know, I think the people can handle this.
We need to kind of get it out there.
So it was more of, it wasn't that they were running around scrambling to cover his crazy references to it.
They were running around scrambling, trying to cover his disregard for the secrecy lid that they wanted to keep.
Bingo.
Wow.
That's really true.
That's why you had Paul Powell in there in the first place.
You know, it's interesting to me when I look out at all this is where we are with what's happening in the congressional hearing arena around the UFO file.
I want to start with this.
When you look at what we've done with the whole, you know, the number of crash retrieval stories.
And things of this nature.
Some of those cases.
What is it that's crashing?
Who's inside?
Take the case like Aztec or Roswell, for example, classic cases.
What is it that's crashing?
Who's inside?
And what do we do with the stuff once we get it?
Well, when you look.
This would go to your shimmering light book as well.
Yeah.
When you look closely and you're honest with yourself, there's a lot more reason to suspect that.
It's our classified technology that we're having mishaps with, and we want to keep this technology secret.
There's much more reason to suggest that Aztec and Roswell were, well, I think Roswell was the first attempt at manned spaceflight by the United States, and it was deeply classified.
That's A hypothesis that I put forward, and I present my evidence why I think that.
And it's very good, strong evidence.
But I tell people I could be wrong.
And I also present in that particular book, Shimmering Light, one particular thread that argues to how I could be wrong.
And that is this alleged race of people or this civilization that have been with us in this world for a very long time.
I talk about them in another context in that book.
But if I'm wrong about it being.
A classified manned spaceflight, our first attempt, I still stand by that it wasn't the popular extraterrestrial explanation either.
However, and some people will scoff and say, oh, you're splitting hairs.
However, I think what if I asked myself, what if the extraterrestrial version that we're given, what if that was.
A cover story, not for a secret manned space flight, but for interdimensionals.
What if the big secret is wow, on top of people coming from the stars, we also got to contend with people coming from other dimensions?
And what if that's what happened at Roswell?
And it was tell them it's green men from another planet, just don't tell them it's interdimensional.
So, I am open to the extraordinary possibility for Roswell.
But my research, I've turned up much more evidence you could point to that it was America's first attempt at a manned spaceflight.
You had the right people together.
You had the German and American aerospace engineers and rocket scientists.
You had, even more importantly, the German and American aerospace medicine specialists.
People say, Oh, that sounds boring.
No, aerospace medicine is how we were able to put humans in space because that's how you keep them alive up there.
Yeah.
You've got it.
And all the aerospace medicine specialists of the 20th century guess what they were obsessed with from the get go, dating back to the 1920s?
They were all obsessed with putting man in space.
That's what they were all about.
It wasn't just high altitude, you know, reconnaissance aircraft and bombers for the Cold War.
That was like a side product.
That they looked at as something you could do on the way to developing putting men in space because it was putting them in space is what they were all about prior to World War II.
Harry Armstrong, who was the guy who, you know, originated Operation Paperclip, was originated under his command.
He was an aviation medicine doctor, scientist, and he knew all these German guys, and they were, they all knew each other before the war.
So, you know, um, And that's just one big fat thread that argues for Roswell having been the first attempt at manned spaceflight.
There are others.
Ancient Vimana Codes and Symbols00:02:27
But even so, I think there is room for some otherworldly explanation.
There's just something about the traditional popular story of Roswell that to me has fallen apart.
And when it does fall apart, there's just a level of people are stubborn and they want to disregard.
Where it's fallen apart and put it back together again and say, Nope, we don't accept that.
It has to be ET.
And all I tell people is consider other possibilities.
Even if you don't want to consider the human possibility, consider interdimensional or something else.
Take a piece of that Nimza, Delshaw aspect and the strange codes and things.
Like you were saying before we started, we were talking about hieroglyphs.
And the hieroglyphics that are found with the Roswell record, in the context of how you're thinking about it, is this a crossover with the Delshaw group?
Are they using the same types of codes and symbols in relation to this?
Do you think there's a combination of the hieroglyphs from Roswell, Keksberg, and others with this early kind of strange coding that Del Show is doing, especially that D shovel X equals anti gravity aspect?
Yeah.
What I'm really leaning strongly toward in my current research, because I just think there's so much of it that's convincing, is that.
The bell, De Glocka, is at the heart of what we're talking about here.
There's something about the bell that I think was the breakthrough leading to T. Townsend Brown's late 50s breakthrough.
Remember, you yourself have talked about this a lot where anti gravity technology was in open source material, and then around 58 or 59, boom, they clamped a lid on that.
That's when the breakthrough came.
And I think what we learned from the capture of the Nazi bell, World War II, and then the thread connecting.
The bell back to Delshow.
Somebody's been developing the bell for, you know, we can.
Lost Vedic Technology Peaks00:05:20
My research takes it back to 1850, but it's older than that.
And I think that what it is is a very old thread of research that goes back to what we learned from ancient India, you know, the whole Vimana thing.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Whether, you know, there are certain aspects of the popular story about Vimanas that you can point to and say, okay, that dates back to the.
There's a book that people say, oh, it's ancient.
No, it's not.
It dates back to the 1920s.
But there is a lot of this esoteric and fantastic technology talked about in the Mahabharata and the Ramayana and the Puranas and things like that.
So I think it dates back to a lost Vedic technology.
Now, what I'm learning is that.
When you say Vedic, people automatically go, Oh, you're ancient India.
Okay.
Well, even the proponents, okay, the Indian historians themselves, the proponents of this Vedic theory, they tell you that you have to make the distinction that when they talk about this lost, forgotten Vedic civilization, they say clearly this predates India.
India is a descendant of.
Culture, as ancient as it is, it is a descendant culture of this lost Vedic civilization.
Okay.
So they say, just keep in mind that when you think of India, what we know of India is today, that's just a particular cultural filter, okay, that inherited this previous civilization, which, by the way, was global.
You know, think of it as people say that, wow, ancient Egypt, the ancient Egypt we know of just suddenly stood up.
And they say, well, They inherited their culture.
There was someone before them who built, you know, the Great Pyramid, who built the Sphinx, that kind of thing.
Well, think of the Vedic civilization in ancient India like that.
India is just the descendant culture of this lost, forgotten global civilization.
And I think it was that civilization's technology from which various researchers and societies drew their research into the bell.
I think the bell is connected to this, what we call Vimana technology.
And that might explain, you know, the language of the glyphs.
Because if you know the secret esoteric societies, we know they got very occultic and they were hiding what they learned, right?
They had it was their version of their classified information.
That's what their secrecy is all about.
It's just that's their classified files, okay?
And you know, maybe these glyphs at Roswell on the Kecksberg UFO from Del Show, maybe this was the written language of that lost civilization.
Interesting.
Yeah, that's where I'm at right now.
Those are the threads I'm pulling.
I'm in the middle of reading the ancient, I'm in the middle of the Mahabharata right now.
Wow.
Some of the other stuff.
There's no question what they're describing is something that has a high technological aspect that was active a very, very long time ago.
So we have kind of an upside down trajectory of history.
About, you know, caveman cycles, things come and go.
You know, civilization peaks and then something happens.
Like you talk about the two eyed stone and the destructive war, and all Edgar Cayce talked about that.
I mean, he says it, and others say it in the ancient traditions.
In the Mahabharata, there's the war that, you know, the two civilizations that go at each other, and there's a lot of destruction.
And so, you know, civilization, human civilization, peaks and troughs throughout our entire history, which is much older than the 6,000 biblical years.
Wow.
Yeah.
You know, so it, and then what happens when it troughs, we kind of have to rebuild, right?
And then the next iteration of the civilization, when it peaks, it's full of itself and it doesn't want to acknowledge the one that came before.
And that's where we're at now.
And particularly in the West, the West, there's so many, you know, folks in the West in, you know, science and history and academia and stuff that they just don't want to hear anything about the East.
There's no value there because we are the West.
We are Western civilization.
We're the peak right now, right now, but we're on our way down already.
Right.
And of course, you know, a lot of those political movements, like the Nazis and everything, they were investigating.
They're going to Tibet.
The Foster Ranch Abduction Case00:12:26
Of course.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, they were onto this.
And, you know, because they got it from the German.
Occultists and alchemists and industrialists who were into this stuff before them.
And that's much of how I was able to draw my thread from, you know, 1800 to Nazi Germany it's there.
These guys, it all leads to what Nazi Germany pursued and did.
That's a very interesting book that you did on Nimza, just Nimza on its own.
And somehow I can almost think that you could add Nimza too, because you've got all this other material taking us into the 20th century.
20th century and 21st century.
One thing I want to mention since we're at that Roswell anniversary, 78 years, is this, which is I want your reaction to this new piece of information that I've run across, and I just put it in an episode called Roswell Reignited.
And I got Joseph's reaction to it, and now I would like yours.
So there's a cop who goes into the Texas School Book Depository after the JFK assassination and finds the Oswald rifle.
And originally identifies it as a different kind of rifle and all this kind of thing.
His name is Eugene Boone and he's 24.
And at 22, he was an advertising executive, friend of Jack Ruby's, you know, going into this glitzy executive scene.
And then somewhere along the line, he gets dropped into the police force and he's the one who finds the Oswald rifle.
Now, Boone appears before the Warren Commission and all that, and he, you know, seals the deal about the rifle.
He will, what I learned.
From someone who worked for the Fosters, who were the ones that owned the Foster Ranch.
There was a woman who gave me a lot of very interesting material, Dorothy, and I identified her and what she was trying to tell me about it.
But she grew up there with her dad working for the Fosters.
And it's very interesting because Boone became the CEO of all the Foster property.
And part of that included.
The Foster Orphanage, which are throughout Texas, but the Foster, like their headquarters there, was located in Stevensville, which is another kind of UFO hotbed.
Yeah.
So the strangeness of this guy being at the center of the Kennedy assassination at a very young age and then being the CEO of all the Foster Roswell people's stuff just seemed to me a little too fantastic for one person.
But interestingly enough, she grew up with this guy and, um, What she told me was that in the foster orphanages, there were a number of alien abduction cases.
So I wanted to roll all of those things.
And of course, the foster ranch is where Mac Brazel was running things.
Monday he goes out there with his cattle and he sees this huge debris field, and that's where we get the whole Roswell crash piece.
Well, it's the same fosters, and they're operating there in Abilene, Texas, and in Stevensville.
How does that strike you, knowing the kind of Deeper edges of both of those incidents, the Roswell case and the JFK case, that the same cop that picks up the Oswald rifle is the CEO for the foster ranch.
That's, yeah, that's an eye opener.
Now, these foster orphanages, I know that's a family name, but is this connected to the program of foster parents?
It is.
It's a children's placement and it's part of a Christian.
Organization called the Church of Christ, who are so, you know, they're well known and they're so conservative that they don't allow music in their churches.
And it's this quite extensive network that all the people associated with them and all the people that they hire are connected with that church, including our friend Boone, who was the policeman.
Oh, well, the first thing that jumps to my mind is I mean, aside from.
It's interesting that they end up with the ranch where the Roswell incident happened.
But I'm wondering, and you're talking about abduction cases connected to some of these children?
Yes.
In what and how so?
In the foster orphanages, she told me about a number of cases where they would have alien abductions of the kids between, say, five and.
12 years old.
Okay.
Look here.
Wow.
What jumps out at me is there are some folks out there that, you know, some are going to know what I'm talking about, but there is a very dark, bad thread of something going on that connects the foster program and the evils of CPS.
Oh, yeah.
Very dangerous thread to pull and go down.
But I, you know, and now you're saying that.
They're claiming there are alien abductions that have gone on with these children.
Yes.
That gives me goosebumps because the truth about the foster program and the truth about CPS and the things they do has not emerged yet.
And they try to keep this suppressed and they'll go to great lengths to keep it suppressed.
But, you know, when I was a federal agent, For the Air Force, every once in a while, once a year, I would pull duty agent.
My first assignment, my second assignment, I was a counter espionage branch guy, so I didn't do duty agent.
My first year, I had to do duty agent.
And that includes if there's a domestic dispute with one of the families on base, right?
And I remember even being told in the federal agent ranks among us that you really hope that CPS doesn't have.
To be called because the implication, I wasn't told this officially, but I was told this on the side that you don't want CPS involved because they're not good.
They're bad.
And there's a very dark thread connecting CPS and the foster programs and things that happen to children and them doing everything they can to take children away from parents.
And, you know, there's a case I'm aware of in Montana where.
Um, children were taken away from the mother under very questionable circumstances, okay, and handed over to the grievously and seriously fanatical religious fanatic husband, father, okay.
And and and I know you've talked about Montana and the interesting cults that it attracts and and things like that, you see.
When you see what a can of worms your question opened up, because I, when I hear this about what you said about alien abductions connected with foster and knowing what I've learned and am learning about CPS and the foster system and the evils of it, the hidden evils, wow, that makes it even more creepy.
What's really happening to these children that now, when you say abducted, abducted and then returned, yes, and like a classic, these kids afterwards.
It's pretty interesting because, you know, I've talked to one of them.
And basically, they have a classic, almost like John Mack style abduction scenario where they're abducted over the course of time.
And, you know, eventually they see offspring that are kind of hybrids, you know, half gray, half human, that kind of thing.
And they have all the classic, you know, signs, the missing time.
The marks, you know, in a number of the different things.
What struck me about it was I know from reading the background of the Fosters that they were twins, Sherwood and his brother.
And they got bought out by the government because the government wanted that ranch.
And at first, they didn't want to give it to them.
And they gave them these incredible mineral rights.
And what I heard was a gold mine as well in order to get off the Foster Ranch and give it to the government because the government wanted it, you know, they wanted to go through every inch, basically.
And another thing I learned about the Roswell Ranch is that they classified it in 48 the same way you would classify kind of a toxic dump site, that you couldn't raise anything there, you know, you couldn't raise cattle there and all the rest of it.
But in terms of the abductions, I thought it was interesting because Foster apparently was never the same after the Roswell incident.
He was very freaked out by the whole thing.
And I thought it was interesting that this piece of the alien thing, you know, the abduction part followed.
Him and his organization back to Texas, and that, you know, in the middle of it, you have Boone as their CEO, and he's overseeing, and I'm sure they do a lot of, you know, regular Christian work, placing children in homes, et cetera.
But it's just interesting that some of those children were having these alien abduction experiences, and they are the same ones who owned the Roswell ranch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, there are people that say, there are people that say, That I'm not saying it, I'm just sharing with you what sources and other people out there say.
Somebody or something wants the children, you know, uses children.
And then there's others I've had people say to me, Hey, you know, back in Roman times, Carthage must die and all of that, right?
And just because Carthage fell, what makes you think?
That the sacrifice has stopped.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
You know, there are some people who have said that, you know, the ancient ways have continued, the ancient religions, the ancient beliefs, and, you know, child sacrifice has been a part of that.
And, you know, that question, what makes you think they stopped, you know, that comes to mind when, you know, I hear about that.
You know, how many of.
I don't know if anyone's taken a look at.
Once CPS has removed children from their parents and put them in the foster system, I don't know yet if there's a number on how many of those kids are missing.
They turn up in the ranks of missing children.
That would be an interesting statistic to find out and put some light on.
The former federal agent in me, my reaction is we go hunt them down, we drag these vampires out into the light, and we expose them.
They're worse than criminals.
They're evil.
But, you know, the people that have researched this more than me say, Are you ready to put your neck on the line?
Military Complex Threats and Lies00:15:17
You know, oh, yeah, yeah.
You know, so, so you see, it's interesting.
Your question opened this very dark can of worms of other things that, you know, I know about.
And, you know, on the Montana thing, in your research you've done with these weird groups, you should take a closer look at Lincoln County in particular.
I'll just leave it at that.
But, um, Oh, interesting.
Okay.
I wonder what's going on there with these abductions that you mentioned.
Wow.
Yeah.
That is fascinating.
I'm glad to get your reaction to it because I got to tell you, when it first came up for me, instantly I was like, are you kidding me?
You know, this guy involved in the JFK thing is their CEO.
Yeah.
And that, okay.
Now that speaks to, Isn't it weird?
And I know there's some people out there that hate to hear it, but you know what?
I say to them, tough.
The thread is there.
The evidence is there.
If you don't like it, go pound sand.
But they hate when Joseph points to the Nazi thread.
I'm sorry, folks.
You look at the JFK assassination, the Nazi, it's not just a thread, it's a cable running through the whole thing.
And when you look at the, okay, whether you think Roswell was ET, whether you think, My theory is correct, whether you think Joseph's theory that it was a post war Nazi group that was developing in South America.
The point is, there were the Nazi scientists there where and when this happened.
There is the post war Nazi thread in the JFK assassination, likely or not.
And so, therefore, there are the Nazis also in the aerospace industry at that time.
So, Walter Dornberger.
That's what I think.
I'm wondering okay, where's the Nazi thread in this guy who was a cop who's, you know, as you say, dropped into the cop job?
Yeah.
That's what I think.
You know, where's that at?
Yes, absolutely.
And it's interesting because really, in your research, what you have with Nimza is kind of the, you know, sweeping 75 year setup to the Reich.
Mm hmm.
Because NIMSA basically takes you from one direction, builds up the technology, keeps it underground.
But by the time you get into 1933 and the ascent of Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich, it's the next generation of this Bell innovation, the airship innovation.
And that becomes the Nazi space program, which we essentially inherit after World War II.
So where are we in 2025 in regards to NIMSA now?
We've long, in American politics, we.
We've long been able to show the connection between the Marxists to our left, okay, to the American left.
We can demonstrate those connections.
Those date back to, you know, the 1920s and 30s after the Bolshevik Revolution.
They really started on the West early.
And likewise, if you go back and look at the post World War II era and through Operation Paperclip, I've done this in my book, Nimza.
But I'm not the only person that's done this.
You can see the influence of fascist Germany, okay, in post war America.
And that includes using industry, okay, our military industrial complex.
That's right out of the old Prussian fascist playbook.
Okay.
And who helped us build our post war military industrial complex but those paperclip Germans?
Okay.
Yeah.
And increasingly, for instance, the JFK assassination.
Well, this is right out of what was called the I pronounce this terribly.
It's the FEMA firma.
It's F E H M E, is the German word.
And that was the.
That was an arm of the old Prussian Junkers power group dating back to medieval times.
They would commit the political assassinations and they would do them.
You never knew who the actual assassin was, and the violence was very public.
And this dates back to medieval times.
A great source on this is Paul Winkler in the book The Thousand Year Conspiracy, written in 1937, published in 1943.
And here's what's really creepy.
All the things he talks about, okay, that this particular culture did to Germany and how they got control of Germany, again, written in 37, published in 43, before Operation Paperclip happened, it describes to a T what has happened to the United States since the end of World War II, including JFK's assassination being right out of this playbook of the FEMA.
And I don't mean the FEMA, but isn't that interesting?
I mean the German FEHME.
We don't know exactly who the assassin was.
It was a very violent public assassination.
These Germans from Paperclip were part of building our military industrial complex.
And over the years, they wanted to keep the Cold War going because if we're kept in fear and terror, we agreed to our tax dollars being spent on weapons, weapons, weapons, defense, defense, defense.
And when that was finally wearing off and the Cold War actually was ended, right?
Well, they had to come up with another threat.
Just like von Braun.
Allegedly, I told Carol Rosen that this would happen.
And I think there was the post war Nazi international hand in 9 11.
Okay.
I don't think 9 11 was pulled off by those crazy Muslims and crazy they were, fanatics they were.
But it has been, now that we got in the 21st century, I see an increase in the.
The influence of fascism in our politics.
And we are seeing it today.
And I go into details in this in my Nimza book, but we're seeing it today in a particular movement, a particular nationalist movement that wears the cloak of godliness.
And, you know, again, I go into details in my Nimza book, which, you know, I came out with two years ago, and they're.
People in the news today that I talk about by name and say, Watch this guy, watch that.
This is going to be a problem.
But it is a form of fascism that is emerging overtly.
That book is fascinating and very concise.
There's so many things that you can write about with Nimza.
So the fact that you took this track and put us in the 21st century I thought was important.
Yeah, and they did it through the technology.
They have.
They went, they got at us through our military industrial complex and they put their tendrils out to start getting political control.
And then from there, they started getting social control.
And that's where we're at now.
Wow.
It's fascinating when I see these movements, for example, around the technology, around little reveals of the exotic technology.
It's this guy out there, Congressman Eric Burleson.
And he's been the chief guy behind, like, oh, yeah, you know, UAP is real.
And David Grush, I've hired him as a consultant and all this kind of thing.
Yeah.
What's interesting about him is he came out recently and said, Oh, yeah, Trump was briefed on Pleiadians and Grays, and Pleiadians are just a couple hundred years ahead of us, and Grays are thousands of years ahead of us.
But here he is, this congressman pushing this line.
And I was like, What kind of era are we in really now here with the UFO threat, the hearings in Congress, and now these congresspeople slinging hash for UAP cash?
We're in a weird spot.
We're in a weird piece of that.
And it feels like the whole NIMSA.
Piece of the technology reveal, you know, the breakaway, moving that back in for profit, fun, and dominance seems like that's where we're arriving.
We haven't completely arrived there yet, but we're getting there.
Yeah, I agree with you.
You know, they're still using, I think, the fear of the known and the fear of the unknown.
Against us.
It's not that there's not a potential real threat out there, but it benefits, you know, the military industrial complex, right?
It benefits them if the public buys into whatever line and narrative they want to push regarding the UAPs, right?
If they want to push the threat narrative, the people get scared and say, yes, yes, yes, more of our tax dollars to development of, you know, Uh, to counter whatever the threat is, whether it's an ET threat or whether it's those Russians, you know, that um, right, that were those pesky Russians or you know, the Chinese or whatever, um, they'll use whatever works on that particular day, you know,
and we've seen since 2017 that you know they they were toying with people's perceptions of UFOs, they gave the UAP thing, they let People believe they were talking about aliens and extraterrestrials.
But did they really say that?
And now it's kind of shifted to where, well, you know, it's more of a threat narrative.
And they just want to keep everybody in the dark because we're more pliable and controllable when we don't know what we're looking at exactly.
Oh, wow.
Absolutely.
And it must be interesting for you, you know, having worked for the Air Force, having worked for the FBI, to see.
How they're kind of massaging that public sentiment and coming up with a narrative that they can get people, you know, and get that kind of data mining.
Like it feels to me the big drone explosion at the beginning of the year and back in December 2024 that was all managing perception and getting feedback and data mining.
What kind of responses?
Oh, yeah.
Just like the Tic Tac was, they were trying to get the response of our, uh, You know, fighter pilots, you know, of our warfighters, a natural response.
So they unleashed this thing that these guys were never briefed in, didn't know, you know, our side was developing to get that natural real world response.
And I think the drones were, you know, put on the public in certain places for the same thing.
Yeah.
And they ratcheted up the fear factor with that, the sky event, you know, to create that kind of emergency powers feeling like, oh, our sky is not going to be.
Yeah.
Well, they learned well from the post 9 11 era that, oh, okay, keeping Americans scared, that works to our benefit.
And especially keeping them scared and against each other.
Oh, yeah.
You know, the dialectic of, oh, Look, it's just all left or all right.
There is no in between.
You know, meanwhile, most Americans are hovering somewhere around the middle and agree with each other more than they like.
So, this is why the volume has been turned up on the far left and the far right.
Okay.
And they keep hammering those of us in the middle because they want to keep us, you know, in a heightened level of fear and agitation so that we can't think clearly and realize that they are.
Are the problem, not the things they're projecting to us.
Walter, with your knowledge about how they think on the inside, you've been exposed to some of that.
Where do you think their next false flag is?
Not to make a prediction, but just a general sweep of where they're going.
I would say.
Something that would scare everyone, wherever you're at, apart from the political spectrum, something that they can scare, they can optimize the fear.
So, you know, some type of war threat, or they might even use the alien threat.
You know, you talk about the drones, and we see all the amazing things that can be done with drones.
And, you know, it makes you wonder when they're going to do that faking the invasion, you know, move.
So, I would guess that it would be something to maximize the fear.
So, they would probably want to avoid the political spectrum, but it could be on the spiritual theme.
They could try to pull some vision that the whole world sees or something.
They might even try to fake a Fatima.
Yes.
Yes.
Wow.
So, we have to be careful.
We have to be careful of that.
Historically, the religious fanatics have taken us down bad roads.
No matter what stripe they are, they've taken us down ultimately bad, violent, destructive roads.
And so we got to be careful about that.
So it could be something on that theme.
I think with the timing of everything, and with the Golden Dome happening and all that, that whole thing about a sky event.
You know, yeah, in the emergency up there.
Well, like I said, like a fake war threat, like, oh no, look, you know, somebody's some, and here's what they'll do to stay out of trouble with another country.
They won't say, oh, look, the Russians have fired this thing.
They'll say, oh no, some crazy terrorists have fired this thing.
It's coming at us.
Telluric Currents and Harmonicon00:02:26
Oh, look, it works.
Look how great it works.
And, and, you know, it could be the false flag just to guarantee that that thing gets built.
Wow, exactly.
Yeah, I know they need at least that quarter of a trillion dollars to do it.
Amazing.
Walter, fantastic stuff here today.
I can't let you go without asking you about this event that you have coming up in November that you're building up to.
And it's related to telluric currents, which is an element in your work.
Tell us a little bit about it before we go.
Yes, it's called the Lost Horizons Symposium and Harmonicon.
It's got that old timey kind of verbose kind of title.
But what we're doing is each week now, between now and the first weekend in November, we are going out on the Telluric Grid.
Pattern that Sesshery has mapped out for me years ago, and we're fleshing out even more.
And we're tapping into that telluric system and trying to activate it, okay, with operations and functions that are measured with, you know, FLIR and other measuring devices.
And this will lead to the event, which is a symposium, a conference gathering, if you will, up in Big Bear, California.
November 6th through 10th.
And this, it really kind of goes along the lines of my Teleric current research, but also other things that we've been pursuing.
So you can go to walterbosley.com and walterbosley.comslash shop and scroll down and get to it.
It's the Harmonicon, the Lost Horizon Symposium and Harmonicon for all the details.
And you can get the tickets there for those who want to attend.
And we also sell.
Tickets where people can kind of attend digitally and watch us do what we do on Fridays on the Telluric points along the Telluric current system, the harmonicon part where we kind of try to awaken the energies in this system.
So it's fun, it's interesting, and we're really looking forward to the ultimate gathering that we're going to have in Big Bear, California, Big Bear Lake in November.
Connecting Threads of the Empire Wheel00:02:53
So, oh, fantastic.
Location, of course.
Well, you do all these interesting events around Del Shau and everything else.
So, and the Sonora Club.
And you've done some related to your Empire of the Wheel book as well.
So, this should be like next level stuff.
Oh, yeah.
We're hoping.
We're hoping this is next level.
And also, the book that we were talking about, Nimza and Shimmering Light, but the Nimza book too.
You can get my books at walterbosley.comslash shop.
And I ask people to get them there, not Amazon, because Amazon's not good to writers.
I.
It's better to get them at my website.
Amazon takes most of the royalties.
WalterBosley.com.
And also, a staple for anybody who wants to know anything about the UFO aspect and the Nimza group, the Breakaway group, is the origin of the 19th century, emergence of the 20th century, Breakaway Civilizations.
Your origin book, fantastic staple, and the Nimza book, those two together, incredible.
But the whole work and the Empire of the Wheel series, it all.
Fits together quite nicely.
And it's an incredible, incredible expanding ride.
And we didn't even get into Crowley today, but sometime we will.
I know.
I know.
There's a lot more.
There's all sorts of threads.
And I will say this, folks honestly, even though they might seem like different subjects, every one of my books, one leads to the other.
One really led to the other.
So there are some connecting threads through all of them.
Absolutely.
And, well, you come in, especially on the UFO file side, you come in at such a different angle that people have to check it out for that because it gives you a whole different range to work with and to play with that.
And of course, you're featured heavily in Dr. Farrell's latest book.
So that's great.
Yeah, that was exciting.
He believes that my theory about the post Civil War black technology project to develop the airship technology has legs.
Excellent.
Well, maybe we'll do a three way show on that at some point.
That'd be great.
Coming up later.
That'd be great.
Fantastic to see you and getting through.
With everything and even the technology problems.
I know.
We got to go back and see what exactly we were talking about when that happened.
And then go, ah, that's when we got zapped.
Exactly.
It's great to see us, sir.
Thanks for having me on.
I really enjoyed being here.
Okay, good.
And we'll talk soon.
Okay.
Amazing, Walter.
Of course, all your information is at walterbosley.com.
Join us here on Friday nights at 8 p.m. for the Dark Journalist X series.